HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-11-21 TranscriptionNovember 21, 2011 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Bailey, Champion, Dickens, Hayek, Mims, Wilburn, Wright
Staff Present: Markus, Helling, Neumann, Bentley, Dilkes, Bowers, Karr, Yapp, Moran,
Fosse, Morris, Hargadine
Others Present: Graham, UISG
Addition to Consent Calendar:
Karr/ Yes, Mr. Mayor, we'd like permission to add to your Consent Calendar tomorrow evening.
The setting of a public hearing on a proposal to, uh, disclaim any interest in the Iowa City
Community School District's Central Administration Building at 509 S. Dubuque. This
would just be a resolution setting the public hearing that I'd like to add to the Consent
Calendar.
Hayek/ Okay. So now that brings us to our special work session. We have a long agenda
tonight, so let's uh ... try to move through (several talking). Yeah! As efficiently as
possible! Uh, first up is Council appointments.
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Um, I don't believe we have any! (several talking) (mumbled) Okay, so no council
appointments. Secondly is the, uh, joint meeting with Parks and Rec Commission on the
Farmers Market strategic planning committee report.
Joint Meeting with Parks and Recreation Commission — Farmers Market (03):
Karr/ We should have room up here for the Commission members. You can just put the lid
down; that's fine!
Hayek/ For Council's benefit, the uh, report is in IP3 in the November 7 th
... 17th, rather, Info
Packet.
Karr/ And if we could please have introduction of Council ... of um, members that'd be great.
Hayek/ Thank you.
Claussen/ Thanks for having us here this evening! I'm Clay Claussen. I'm the current Chair of
the Parks and Recreation Commission and we have a number of Commission members
with us — Ally, Maggie, Lucie, Joe.
Hayek/ We probably oughta do full names for the record, since we've got (both talking)
Claussen/ Go ahead and give your full names.
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Laurian/ Lucie Laurian.
Younker/ Joe Younker.
Elliott/ Maggie Elliott.
Gnade/ Allison Gnade.
Claussen/ And Mike Moran is also in attendance, the Director of Parks and Recreation. Um, last
spring, uh, on May 11, 2011, the Parks and Recreation Commission moved and approved
to create a strategic planning committee for the Iowa City Farmers Market. And this was
in reaction to the Downtown Association's request to investigate the possibility of
moving the Farmers Market from its current location in the Chauncey Swan Parking
Ramp and east Washington Street to the streets of downtown. Uh, the Commission asked
that the committee consist of three Commission members, three Farmers Market
representatives, the Director of Parks and Recreation, and the Administrative Secretary
for Parks and Recreation, and we also included an invitation to the Downtown
Association, uh, to send a representative to be involved in that planning. And we held
monthly meetings, uh, throughout June and September, uh, through September, excuse
me, of 2011, and then in September we presented the Parks and Recreation Commission,
uh, with an outline as a guideline, uh, I think you have a written copy of that with you,
uh, for completing the written strategic plan. Uh, the Commission reviewed, made
suggestions, and approved the outline and recommended that this outline be presented
tonight to the City Council, and we wish to present a completed strategic plan for the
Iowa City Farmers Market to the City Council in the spring of 2012, prior to the start of
our next regular market season. Uh, and I would like to note that although we invited the
Downtown Association to participate, uh, they did not. So, we just moved on, um, and
some of the, uh, items that came to light in our discussions and our plans, uh, first and
foremost was the location. And we thought it was in the best interest of all involved to
leave the market in the Chauncey Swan ramp. Uh, the market has been downtown and
been very successful for 39 years now, and if it's not broken we didn't think we needed
to fix it. Uh, we would like to allow additional expansion as demand dictates around the
ramp, uh, and possibly overflowing into Washington Street, Van Buren Street, Gilbert
Street, College Street, and the Chauncey Swan Park, and we also want to maintain our
current ratio of 70% produce and food vendors to 30% arts and crafts vendors. That's
working very, very well for us and if you ask ... it's farmers market, first and foremost!
Uh, and that's why we like to keep that ratio where it is. And then down the road,
looking at something more long -term, uh, the possible development of a permanent
facility for the Farmers Market at the future Riverfront Crossings location. I think that
location down along the river and possibly a year -round covered facility would be ideal
for everybody involved, and we know that's long -term. That's... 10, 15 years down the
road, at least. But, if we don't start now, it's not going to happen. Uh, one of the
concerns was customer safety. If you've attended the Farmers Market, there's a lot of
traffic in there and particularly with strollers and people going in opposite directions
sometimes, so we're trying to determine a safe aisle width within the ramp, and provide
for better traffic flow, and movement of the patrons and vendors within the ramp. Now
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the budget, uh, the Farmers Market, we want it to be self - supporting to include the
salaries of the permanent full -time and part-time temporary employees, cover all the
advertising fees, and all special event costs. So it should be self - sufficient. Uh, other
plans that we've come up with for down the road, uh, we're also administering the indoor
Farmers Market at Grant Wood Elementary School from November through April. So
when the outdoor market ceases, uh, we'll ... we'll be doing the indoor market at Grant
Wood Elementary and that, uh, is ... first session was ... was very well attended. So, we
think that's going to work very well. Uh, we'd like to discuss and improve, uh,
marketing strategies. We did present the Downtown Association, uh, a plan to do some
cooperative, beneficial marketing; invited them to have a presence at the Farmers Market;
rather than pull the Farmers Market downtown to ... cause I know they're trying to
advertise their businesses and they want ... they want to take advantage of the traffic that
comes to the Farmers Market, and we think that can be done if they have a presence at
the Farmers Market, uh, and the vendors at the Farmers Market suggested passing out
coupons, uh, just ... just having a presence down there. Uh, I think would be beneficial to
both parties. And we'd also, uh ... like to assist the Farmers Market vendors in creating an
advisory board or commission to coordinate, uh, all the people that participate and the
Rec Center staff would ... would help them do that. It's kind of like herding cats right
now. You've got a lot of different vendors and they have a lot of different ideas, and
we'd like to get them more coordinated, instead of having to deal ... to deal with a ... a lot
of individuals, deal with them as a single entity, uh, but getting them to organize
has ... has been a little difficult. So, but we're working on that! And uh, Tammy did tell
me today that, uh, our Farmers Market was recognized... she just got the certificate in the
mail today, as the number one Farmers Market in the State of Iowa. So (mumbled)
entertain any questions you might have ... for us.
Dickens/ How many, uh, how many people do you have on the waiting list... currently?
Claussen/ I'll defer to Tammy on that.
Hayek/ (unable to hear person away from mic) You'll have to come up here (several talking)
Claussen/ This is Tammy (several talking)
Neumann/ Tammy Neumann.
Claussen/ Neumann! Excuse me!
Neumann/ (laughter) Yes! We have at least probably 200 on that list. Um, we have an online
registration system now which is good in some ways. However, it's allowed anybody
and everybody to register for the Market. So their automatically put on a waiting list,
um, when that occurs, because we have a ... our season vendors that return every year, and
we have 142 of those on Saturdays, and about 60 on Wednesdays.
Dickens/ And ... are you looking for expansion in the future or...
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Neumann/ Well, you know, we've expanded in the last couple of years out onto east Washington
Street, and yes, we certainly are, uh, like Clay mentioned, um, in our outline here those
are some of the ideas that we've looked at are ... is expanding onto the street around the
ramp.
Claussen/ And, Terry, we did ... uh, we provided our, uh, that list, the waiting list, to the
Downtown Association for their second Saturday event that they did, and I think ... there
are a lot of phantom people on the list. You know, you call them and say would you like
to be ... well, doesn't work out for me this weekend, so those numbers seem a little bit
higher than people that would actually turn out. So ... I ... I think we're servicing the
demand very well right now, both with the number of vendors we have and the spaces
that we have available.
Bailey/ I'm glad to see that you're talking a little bit about the traffic flow in the ramp. I mean,
as it grows in popularity, as we want it to, it's ... it's very challenging. Lovely and all, but
it also can be very challenging, particularly with people with kids, for people with kids.
Um, I have a question about the budget aspect. This self - supporting, um, to what degree
is the Market, uh, self - support, or supporting itself now, I mean, how much farther would
you have to move to do this?
Claussen/ Uh ... I'll have to ... Tammy has the details on those figures and I would appreciate her
input on that.
Neumann/ Uh, well, as it turns out, we ... we are pretty much self - supporting now. So ... there
isn't really, um ... a big increase needed to do that. However, we would like to add more
special events. That of course will increase the cost, but um, we try as much as possible
to cover the costs (mumbled) vendor fees (mumbled)
Claussen/ And, Tammy, what ... our vendor fees are what ... now?
Neumann/ Uh, for a season vendor right now they ... it breaks down to $9.00 a week. It's, um, it
was 243 last year for 26 weeks, per stall, per day. Um, the part-time vendors that fill in
during an absence, those are $11.00.
Claussen/ And that's pretty reasonable, is it not?
Neumann/ Um (mumbled)
Hayek/ I'm a little perplexed by the lack of DTA involvement (several talking). I'm not really
sure what explains that. Urn ... but can you speak to ... uh, the ... the desire, as I understood
it from them, short of actually relocating it, which I don't think we've ever gotten very
far, but uh, if demand is there, allowing it to snake westward across Gilbert toward the
ped mall, um ... is there an outright concern with ... with experimenting with that kind of
extension?
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Claussen/ No, not really... some of the concerns are working with the Fire Marshall and ... and
traffic, because once you ... you know, Gilbert Street there's a lot of traffic there, uh, and
also response from, uh, when we did surveys with ... with the, uh, people using the
Market. Uh, they like it to be concentrated ... if you've been to some other farmer's
markets that are spread around on city streets, you've got to walk three or four blocks to
get your various goods, and here it's ... it's all within a relatively small radius. So that's
very convenient for the shoppers, and in a sense we've spoiled them in that respect and
uh ... to place them downtown too if you ... there's some concern about blocking the
sidewalks, uh, in front of the stores, access to the stores, you know, there's just some
logistical things. They could be worked out, uh, and I know that the second Saturday
people, they've... they've tried to do that a little bit, uh, we just found it convenient to use
the front street right out here is where they have, uh, they prepare food on ... on the
Saturday markets and that's been well received and that doesn't shut down too much
traffic flow and it ... also it kind of raises our visibility, people wondering what streets are
shut down, it's like, oh, there's a farmer's market going on, so ... better stop and check it
out! So ... um, we don't ... we're not resistant to trying something different. There's just
not been a demand that's strongly pulled us in that direction, at this point, cause what
would be the benefit of doing that?
Hayek/ Well, I would, you know, as ... as they were suggesting, it would tie downtown in with
this and ... and, you know, bring people from the ped mall down and vice versa but...
which makes sense to me, not displacing what's there now but if the demand is there, you
know, experimenting with an extension, an arm up into the central business district, but
again (laughter) not seen that apparent follow -up (mumbled)
Wilburn/ (both talking) I mean ... yeah, there wasn't a response there. I know some (mumbled)
business community in the downtown area that were interested, that approached me. I'm
sure they approached others, um ... and I ... the first thing I say (mumbled) said was, well,
it's been long- standing where it is. You need to have a conversation with the vendors to
see if there's interest to try and generate some momentum, but you know ... so it ... that
was an oppor... and I don't know how often you reached out to them, but, again, I ... I had
said that, hadn't heard anything else. I'm sure others did too.
Champion/ (several talking) ...want to respond to that a little bit. I don't think it's up to the
vendors where you put the Farmers Market. But I do think that the customer should have
a say, and I agree with the survey that why would you move it when it's doing so well.
But I don't think it's the vendors' decision, but I think you (both talking)
Wilburn/ I wasn't implying it was their decision, but if...certainly if there's some long - standing
tradition like that, uh, that at least reaching out for some input, uh...
Champion/ Oh sure, right.
Wilburn/ That ... that's more where I was going with that ... Connie.
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Bailey/ There's some very good energy with downtown and the Farmers Market, I think we can
all agree to that, and I think building on that is beneficial for both the downtown and the
Farmers Market, so I was ... I'm really surprised that they didn't participate in this but it...
I think continuing to try to have discussions with them about snaking it up, um, I think
would be ... would be good, because we have something that's pretty nice here and, both
in the downtown and in the Farmers Market, and putting those two together would...
would be pretty incredible.
Wilburn/ (mumbled) the long -term goal of the Riverfront Crossings is a very interesting notion
to me (several agreeing)
Bailey/ And we have a nice example the market to the north and I think we should start
looking at that and... and what's working for them and what's not, and begin to dream
about what we want to see here. I mean, if we've got a good business model that's...
that's self - supporting, you know, what's it going to take and what do those numbers look
like.
Claussen/ Yeah, a couple other things that came up with ... if we move outside of the current
location, uh, either on the street or on the sidewalks downtown ... a lot of the vendors
work out of the back of vehicles. Where would they park those vehicles? They have to
provide covered shelter, uh, for, um ... in their booths. They have to provide cover, then,
uh, how are they going to do that? Some of them ... they have to go to considerable
expense to go out and buy something to do that, and I... you know, if something could be
done on Iowa Avenue with, to provide a covered area ... cause that's a very wide
boulevard there, uh, but the other thing is ... it boils down a lot to weather too. You know,
if you try to do something open air ... what's going to happen? And if you go down to
Iowa Avenue there are a lot of activities throughout the summer that would conflict with
the Farmers Market. You know, if they ... if they're doing something arts -wise, uh...
Bailey/ Well...
Claussen/ ...what happens?
Bailey/ ...conflict or ... or enhance, both!
Claussen/ But, well, yeah, if we leave it where it is (both talking)
Bailey/ What does Des Moines do?
Claussen/ I mean...
Bailey/ What does Des Moines do, I mean, they snake through streets. Who provides those
coverings, um, the ... the farmers or ... (unable to hear person away from mic) (both
talking)
Claussen/ The vendors do, yeah. Yeah.
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Bailey/ So I don't think that it's out of the scope of...of what's expected in other communities.
Claussen/ Well, and ... and I'm sure you all realize that any time you ask for change, there's
going to be some resistance to it. We're just ... if...if it's change, we'd like it to be a
functional change that benefits everybody involved.
Elliott/ The other thing that (mumbled) reports back on other (mumbled)
Hayek/ You know it, can you put your (both talking)
Karr/ Maggie, could you put (several talking). Thank you.
Elliott/ We got, uh, reports back from other locations and if the weather is bad, the ... farmers
market just disintegrates.
Bailey/ Well, yeah, but Matt was talking about snaking it up Washington, not necessarily taking
it too far afield, I mean ... we close Washington, leave Gilbert open, and then have a
portion of it there. I mean, that ... that may work.
Claussen/ That's kind of what they did on an experimental basis for the second Saturday. It
wasn't coordinated with the Farmers Market, but it was kind of an extension of it, uh, and
I don't know what the results were with that. They had (both talking)
Bailey/ You mean down on the ped mall?
Claussen/ Uh, it was on ... I thought they had some shops on Washington (several talking)
Bailey/ They didn't close streets, did they? (several talking)
Champion/ No, they did not close streets.
Claussen/ We weren't involved in that at all.
Dickens/ It was on the ped mall (several talking)
Claussen/ That was totally the Downtown Association's event.
Bailey/ That's what I ... that's the only part I saw.
Dickens/ It was down, uh, College Street, and then coming up Dubuque Street.
Mims/ I think when there's been such a good model, and I think it works well, you know, both
for the vendors and for, uh, customers with that covered area. Like you say, when you've
got ones that don't have cover, uh, you get a rainy day and people are not going to go out
to the market and so I think like you're saying, if ... if we're going to make a change and a
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major move, I think it's really got to be something that we're going to see as either a
major improvement, or at least not, uh, being detrimental to either the vendors, or the
customers, for the Farmers Market, and so I think at this point, you know, staying where
it is with the idea if... if we get a... a viable waiting list that can be kind of confirmed as
viable, looking at, you know, moving up Washington Street or College Street or whatever
towards the ped mall, I mean, whatever works, so that we can add to it, then that certainly
makes sense.
Wright/ And I'm glad to see you're talking about addressing some of the traffic in the current
location That's the complaint that I hear more than anything else is how crowded and..
and in some cases people really get claustrophobic (both talking)
Bailey/ Yeah, I know a lot of people who say that they won't (both talking)
Wright/ Yeah, people go ... early-early or very late. (both talking) ...don't like the crowd.
Claussen/ We worked with the Fire Marshall on that too to make sure there's some clear lanes
and maybe do some one -way traffic, and just some things that might make it ... just
become (mumbled) sort of thing but I understand. But it's nice that there's enough
people down there that, you know, there... there's congestion (several talking) activity,
yes, yes, yes!
Bailey/ Well, and it's a very, I mean, part of the congestion is because people are meeting each
other and they're, I mean, it's exactly what you want to see, but it ... you know.
Claussen/ It's vibrant!
Bailey/ Yeah!
Claussen/ Definitely!
Hayek/ If the SSMID passes, and it's got a couple more readings before it does, and the new
entity that would form would subsume the, uh, DTA and it might be worth having a
conversation next year with them, just talking about collaboration opportunities.
Claussen/ We'd love to talk to everybody!
Hayek/ Yeah, okay. Well, any other questions for (mumbled). Okay!
Claussen/ We'll report back next spring then, if that's okay.
Champion/ Great!
Hayek/ Thanks (several talking). Appreciate it! Okay, next up is agenda items.
Agenda Items:
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ITEM 12. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 9, "MOTOR
VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC," CHAPTER 19 "DEFINITIONS,
ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF TRAFFIC
PROVISIONS," SECTION 1, "DEFINITIONS "; AND AMENDING TITLE
91) MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC," TO ADD A NEW CHAPTER
11, AUTOMATIC TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT, TO ALLOW FOR RED
LIGHT AUTOMATED TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT. (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Champion/ I do want to just bring up one thing on item # ... oh, I'm sorry! Oh, I have it on!
Monday! (laughter) On item #12, about the, urn ... traffic enforcement for red lights
automatic traffic enforcement. I'm going to move tomorrow night to move that after
January I st when we have a new Council. Um, there could now be four of us who aren't
willing to do it, and I think it's silly to move forward with any other work towards this
project if it's not going to follow through. So I'm just going to make the motion, and I
don't know if I'll have any support for it. Just warning you!
Hayek/ Okay (laughter).
ITEM 14. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND POLICIES.
Bailey/ On item #14 ... this is the economic development policies, which I'm glad to see coming
in front of us. Um, since the ... Economic Development Committee met and talked about
particularly # ... item 5, the urban renewal revenue notes, I've heard from some developers
that I don't think we heard from at the committee level, and I was wondering if we might
take this back to the committee level, hear from some developers, and make sure that
we're comfortable recommending this. I have some concerns, since those discussions.
Hayek/ Right.
Bailey/ I ... I mean, it's not our job to, uh, slow down any economic development and that's what
I'm hearing. So if there's interest, I'd still like to get this done this year, if it's possible,
if it ... if we think we could meet, get it back on for the 6 th
Champion/ Do we want us to defer it tomorrow night, is that what you're asking?
Bailey/ If...if people are comfortable doing that, I don't ... I don't know if staff has also heard
from ... or what ... Tom or...
Davidson/ We've heard from a few folks but we've encouraged them to contact you.
Bailey/ Yeah, and that's what we're getting.
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Mims/ No, I'm willing to look at it again, to ... just kind of have a little more detailed discussion
(both talking)
Bailey/ Yeah, because we didn't hear from any developers at that meeting and I think that that
would... okay. If...
Dilkes/ I think you need to have a better understanding of what an urban renewal revenue note is
to start with, too.
Bailey/ Yeah.
Markus/ We may have bond counsel actually attend and have that discussion with you, and I
think those developers that have raised issues, it would probably be good for them to
understand, um, bond counsel's perspective on this, as well.
Hayek/ So would we do that at the ED Committee level or...
Markus/ Yes. (several commenting) I think that would be the appropriate place for it.
Bailey/ So if people are comfortable can we ... we'll just take it back, bring it (several
commenting) on the 61h
Wright/ I think that makes sense. (several talking)
Davidson/ Do we have one scheduled, Madame Chairperson?
Bailey/ We don't! And I'm ... I'm hopeful that we're...
Davidson/ ...we'll send an email out tomorrow morning and see if we can get you all three
rounded up.
Bailey/ And then make sure that those developers are also (both talking)
Davidson/ ...results of that meeting back for the 6th, right?
Bailey/ Yes.:.please! Thank you. So we'll defer that tomorrow night.
Hayek/ Okay.
Bailey/ Thanks!
ITEM 13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN
AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST THE SEVENTH AMENDMENT
TO THE PENINSULA NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND PENINSULA
DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, L.L.C. (PDC)
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Mims/ Jeff, before you go too far. I've got a question on ... urn ... #13. If I recall correctly, it
doesn't seem like it was that long ago that we had made a change to this in terms of, um,
I think the developer... this is the Peninsula, that the developer had changed, I think,
engineering firms and one of the things... and I think there was a deferral, but one of the
things at that time was they were wanting to, purchase the third ... phase three...
Davidson/ Uh -huh.
Mims/ ...and not have the stipulation of the 50% on each of the first two phases (both talking)
Davidson/ That was changed.
Mims/ ...a total of 50 %.
Davidson/ Right, and that ... a total, 50% of all the preceding phases, yeah, that was changed.
Mims/ Okay! So my question is ... it doesn't seem like that was that long ago.
Davidson/ It was within the last year, I think.
Mims/ Yeah, so what ... what has changed so significantly since then that now we're willing to do
away with the 50% provision altogether?
Davidson/ I think it's the developer's desire to purchase the remainder of the property. Um,
phases three and four would be the remainder of the Peninsula property. One of the
reasons for the delay is that they have hired, um, local ... local engineering firm MMS and
they are doing a ... you know, basically what they'd like to do is get the unit count up
higher and to do that they're going to have to convert some, um, lower - density type units
to higher density type units, and that'll all be brought to you for approval. You'll
ultimately determine if that occurs or not, but it basically involves development of the
remainder of all of the property, and they would just like to be able to do it all at once,
and again, ultimately you'll decide if that's a good idea or not.
Hayek/ What was the policy behind that stepped approach?
Davidson/ The stepped approach, Matt, was to ensure that, you know, basically we had a good
progression of the development plan being completed in the vision that we had put forth
in our development agreement with the developer. Remember, it was a completely
different type subdivision that what we typically do because we wanted to get the, uh,
you know, part of the deal was if we sell you the property, uh, that you have to develop it
in accordance with the traditional neighborhood development plan that we have, and so
we basically split it into four phases and ... and each successive ...once they proved in one
phase that they were doing it according to what we'd agreed to, then they had the right to
buy the next phase.
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Hayek/ Okay.
Davidson/ And ... and I guess it's a matter for you to determine if...as a group you feel like
they've established enough of what the development is to be that you trust them to do the
rest of it in that manner.
Mims/ What ... what is their right if we go ahead and agree to this and they buy all the property?
There was some mention in the thing of not thinking that there was any speculation
involved here, whatever...
Davidson/ Yeah, they still ... they will be required to amend the development plan.
That's... that's the tantamount to changing the zoning of the property. It's basically the
same process for all of you, legislative process as for a rezoning. They ... they are going
to wish to modify the development plan, and then they would be required to build it out,
just like they would have to comply with the zoning of a ... of a conventional subdivision,
they would have to comply with that development plan, to build the rest of it out.
Markus/ Originally there was some, uh, density, uh, total numbers of units that were approved
for this, and I think now, Jeff, and maybe you can comment on this, uh, they're
concerned about how that all balances out in the end.
Davidson/ yeah, they're ... two, basically two things that have happened over the ten years that
they've been developing the property. Early on, they determined that there was more of a
market for the single- family and duplex, townhouse style so they converted some multi-
flam ... multi-family buildings to the lower- density type ones because at that time they felt
like that was a market. Now they've since kind of changed and they feel like there's
more of a market. The Elk Run Condos, as you come in, have done quite well and are, I
think there's one unit remaining for sale, and so they'd like to create some new units that
would basically be built on that model, or designed on that model, higher density type
stuff, and they feel like that's more, uh, the market right now. The other thing they did is
they had on a couple of the multi - family building sites, I think they had some unrealistic
unit numbers on those. They ... it hadn't been engineered. It was just sort of plopped
down that they hoped to build 48 units when they ... there's no way they ever could
realistically get the parking for 48 units on the site, and so the ... the combination of those
two things led to them having significantly less units that ultimately were ... were
approved in the development plan. They'd like to try and get that up.
Markus/ But they'll still likely be way less than, uh, what the maximum allowed would be on
that site. Um ... and it's like Jeff said, I think they started off altering some of the, um,
zoning uses, uh, density of those uses and now they're finding themselves caught up and
they're trying to get back to... to the number that they were, but they're still not even
going to get close to that number.
Davidson/And remember, none of that's on your agenda tomorrow night. Tomorrow night's just
the extension to allow them to complete that, uh, redesign that they... would then bring
before you. That would ... that would go through P &Z and then to you.
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ITEM 5. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
C) CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 1.15 ACRES
OF PROPERTY LOCATED 911 N. GOVERNOR STREET, FROM
COMMERCIAL OFFICE (CO -1) TO LOW DENSITY MULTI-
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM -12). (REZ11- 00016)
Mims/ The other one I had was ... uh ... uh, 5.c., this is the ... the rezoning of the property on North
Governor. And I guess my question on that is...
Hayek/ Hold on a second, uh ... can we get into that tonight or is that just tomorrow night?
Mims/ Okay. (several talking) Okay.
Hayek/ (mumbled)
Wright/ ...questions on that one too so...
Hayek/ Okay, other agenda items?
ITEM 17. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A REVISED SCHEDULE
OF FEES AND CHARGES FOR PARKS AND RECREATION SERVICES
AND PROGRAMS.
Wright/ Um, is Mike still here? I just had a question on #17. 1 looked around and I looked right
past ya! Sorry!
Moran/ That's right! I'm easy to miss! (laughter)
Wright/ Just wondering on those recreation fees, um, the new schedule gets you up to 50 %?
Moran/ Up to 50 %?
Wright/ Yeah.
Moran/ Uh, almost!
Wright/ Almost?
Moran/ Yeah, we're ... I think this brings us up to about 48.3. I'm not exactly sure on the, but
real close to it.
Wright/ Cause most of those are fairly modest adjustments (both talking)
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Moran/ Right! Right, and that's what our goal is to get to by then. We'll have a little bit of
tweaking on this, uh, if you notice the fees for the Terry Trueblood Recreation Area and
the Ashen House property aren't on here because we don't have a real solid date as to
when that's going to start yet, but we'll have to come back to you so we can set those fees
and ... and those will get us to the 50 %.
Wright/ Okay, good! Thank you!
Hayek/ Thanks, Mike! Other agenda items? Okay! Well let's move on then. Next item is our
space needs' study, uh, and master plan draft report. Kumi? Hi!
Space Needs Study and Masterplan Preliminary Draft (IP4):
Morris/ I'm Kumi Morris, excuse me (noise on mic). I'm Kumi Morris and I'm with
Engineering, and I'm here today with RDG, um, Planning and Design. They're the
consultant that the City has hired to conduct the space needs study and um, citywide
masterplan project. Um, what you should have in your packet is the preliminary draft of
the Executive Summary and I want to emphasize that, um, what you're seeing today is,
um, some information that is from an incomplete report at this point. So we're right in
the midst of assessing all the information. Um, the full report will be available this
spring, and um, so we're breaking from convention and giving you an update at this
juncture. Um, the purpose is to share information that we have at this time to assist in the
upcoming strategic planning process, and this is Justin Platts with RDG. He's the project
manager.
Platts/ (mumbled) Kumi. Can you hear that?
Hayek/ Yeah.
Platts/ Yeah? All right, great. Um, what uh, what we've got on the screen here are some brief
items that we want to go through here. I understand you want to be efficient with your
time today and we'll do our best to assist you in that. I have with me Corinne Goode who
is an architect with RDG and Davis Sanders who is an architect and principle in charge of
the project. They will likely be able to assist with any questions you might have, uh, that
are above and beyond, um, my ... my knowledge. Um, what we'd like to do is go through
the intended preliminary draft, and it's basically what Kumi had started on. Talked about
the scope of the assessment and planning effort, um, the process we've gone through, and
then our schedule moving forward and some of the higher priorities that are coming out
of our preliminary draft at this point. We have a project oversight committee that a
number of the folks in the room here today, we've been meeting with on a weekly basis,
that have been assisting us to go through, uh, this assessment. Um ... the overall draft
intent, as Kumi said, is really at this point to give you a snapshot of where we're at with
about two - thirds of the facilities that we've .... that we've assessed. Uh, and you'll see
that as part of the higher priorities piece there are a number of facilities towards the end
of the Executive Summary that you've read there were like ... there may or may not be a
few more as we move on towards the end of our ... our process in, uh, March. So the
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scope of our effort — 26 facilities, little over 1.5 million square feet of space for the City.
This is not all of the City's facilities, but is a good number of them. Um, essentially 14
departments in those 26 facilities, and approximately 56 buildings that we've assessed.
Uh, our team, RDG, is the overall, but we also have Hall and Hall Engineering has
been ... is part of our team. Morningstar Studio is handling structural, and Henneman
Engineering's been handling technology and security for us. Uh, so we have quite
a ... quite a ... a comprehensive approach to the assessment that we're ... that we're
providing to the City here. Uh, the over ... the base line scope that we're providing is that
we're observing the conditions. So this is observational, you know, we're walking
through the different things that we can see from an architecture, structure, um,
mechanical, plumbing, all those different pieces all the way down through security and
technology. Those are the items that we're looking at. Uh, but we are looking at, we're
not going deep into ves ... investigation, uh, we won't be doing ADA assessments, OSHA
assessments, those types of things. Um, we're identifying needs from a short-term and
long -term standpoint, so we're looking at items that we ... that cause concern for us
immediately, but then also looking out at the 20 -year picture, um, been interviewing staff
as a part of this, so it's not just a walk - through, but we're also going through with ... with
staff, individual staff, with each facility. We'll be recommending opportunities from an
energy and efficiency standpoint, as well as proposing solutions for potential, um,
modifications to existing facilities, and potential new facilities, uh, to ... to meet the needs,
uh, over the long -term. So the process so far, with each facility essentially we have gone
through, um, we have provided a questionnaire to ... to maintenance and user folks from
each of the facilities. We've asked them to fill that out. They've sent that back to us.
We've reviewed that, as well as the doc ... existing documentation for the given facilities.
We've then gone through and toured the facilities. We've gone through interviews with
the staff, uh, multiple -day interviews. Um, we've taken that data, analyzed it and ... and
are distilling it at this point and then starting to put together a series of priorities...
prioritizations based off of those. Our assessments work on a ... on a, a, uh, scoring
process so ultimately when you have a document in your hand you'll get an under-
standing of how a given facility scored and ... in any of these elements. And then we will
take that information and be developing potential recommend... recommenda -tions for
building program improvement, um, and then assembling that document into one, uh,
final cohesive document, uh, and be really one of the first times that the City has ever had
a comprehensive document that goes through a number of the different facilities in one
place. Uh, and as part of this process, over the last nine months, we've been meeting
monthly, um, with the oversight team that I showed you earlier to make sure that as we
go through this process on a month -to -month basis, we're staying on track. We've
broken the project into three phases, um, group one facilities we ... we walked through
and did interviews in June of 2011. Those assessments are completed. We're working
on our preliminary draft for that. Group two facilities were done in August of 2011, and
group three facilities, uh, our walkthroughs were completed in October of 2011. So at
this point we're really moving forward into the distillation process and starting to, uh,
assemble our recommendations. The project report, when you get it, will be a rather
comprehensive document, um, quite thick I would imagine at this point. Um, focusing on
not only the user perception of the facility, but then also the realities of space use, uh,
issues that there might be with systems, as well as giving an understanding of whether or
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not systems are in good shape or not, and um, so far as we've gone through a number of
the facilities, uh, by ... by and large are in fair to good condition. Um, we'll be hitting on
the potential building program solution, sustainable opportunities, uh, there'll be some
public input, detailed facility reports, and then an appendix, which will have a ... quite a
massive, um, interview reports and all of that that you'll see the work that's been done,
uh, by the individual disciplines as they went through. So, got to that point. Now, um,
preliminarily looking at it, there are a number of, uh, of priorities or facilities that we're
seeing that are going to need ... that are needing higher priorities at this point. Um, it has
to do with either age, deferred maintenance, general functionality, uh, general space
shortage impeding functionality, or shortage of... of storage space, which is a need in a
number of the different facilities, um, that the City has at this point. Um, the facilities up
here, um, are the ones that seem to be ranking out the highest for us essentially that from
a scoring standpoint are ... are having the lowest scores on that 5 to 0 scale as an overall.
Um, some of them, uh, and I should make the point that there are actually a number of
facilities that are in quite good condition, uh, and many of your newer facilities are in
very good condition, and some of your older facilities have been main... maintained very
well. Um, and because ... just because something's on these lists, and as we go through it,
uh, items that end up on the higher priority list, it does not mean that they haven't been
maintained, they haven't been taken care of. Some of them just had an evolution of
service, uh, they are serving a much larger area than they were ever intended to. Number
of these facilities go back beyond the 50s, uh, they didn't ... uh, they weren't built to
service a community, uh, like you have now. And then, uh, going to the lack of storage
space. Storage is ... is one of the key components, and you'll see at a number of these
facilities, some of them, folks who know the facilities probably won't be all that surprised
to see that, uh ... that items like solid waste building, uh, or police or ... or City Hall, um,
have some storage issues. So, uh, as we go through it we'll ... you'll have a number of
these different pieces, but then you'll also have the supporting documentation to
understand what it is that is causing these problems and then also some recommendations
and some proposals from us, and from our team, as to how you may ... might remedy
them in the 5, 10, and 20 -year picture. And there will also be costs associated with those,
uh, we'll try to project out in the 5 and 10 -year plan to get an understanding of...of, uh,
what ... what dollar allocations are going to be necessary to achieve, uh, any of those
proposed recommendations. So ... schedule. Uh, we started in January of 2011, uh,
we're ... we were engaged in the autumn of 2010, started in January of 2011. Everything
in gray we have completed. The red is where we are right now, and the black is where
we will be, uh, at the end of February. So be expecting a final document, um, somewhere
after February of 2012. Okay. All the caffeine's out! (laughter) What questions do you
have?
Mims/ You indicated that a lot of what you've done so far is based on walk - through.
Platts/ Yes.
Mims/ Um ... just ... I guess remind me or fill me in, what ... how much is being done in terms of
like detailed, um, analysis in terms of structural integrity, uh, HVAC, I mean, just those
kinds of things.
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Platts/ Good question! Uh, so the walk - through is observational. It's what we can see. We're
not digging under ceiling panels. We're not climbing up ... we are getting up on top of
roofs, but it's ... it's really what we can see with our eyes. The second piece of that is then
the interviews, and so we have, um, had questionnaires filled out by maintenance staff for
each of the facilities who know their buildings well, I can tell you, uh, by users who are
using those facilities, um, and who also know their ... their buildings well, and we are
then, uh, interviewing them. So we get those questions back, we want to know why
you're saying that there was a leak in this area. We want to know why you're saying that
you're concerned about maybe a structural abnormality somewhere. We're going
through all those different things so as part of our process — yes — we are walking through
and seeing what we can see, but then we're coming back and meeting with staff to get a
better understanding of what issues they perceive.
Mims/ Okay.
Platts/ And, um, typically you're going to get a pretty darn good understanding from staff as to...
they know their buildings. Um, and so, uh, it's really kind of a two, three - tiered approach
to ... to understanding those pieces.
Mims/ Okay. Thank you.
Platts/ Uh -huh!
Hayek/ This question may be more for staff, but I mean, we're going to get this when we're half-
way down the field toward scoring a budget touchdown to ... to use a terrible analogy. Uh
(laughter) how ... but we'll have this ... this initial data, um ... do you anticipate working
this into the capital discussion?
Markus/ To the extent that some of this is already known, we have included some of those items
in the capital improvements program, but you know it's like, um, the Super Bowl —
there's one every year and so (laughter) we'll have another budget next year and we'll
have the opportunity to roll this into future year's documents, as well.
Champion/That was going to be my question, Tom. Were we ... do you take into account what
we already have on the books to complete, and do, and move?
Markus/ Well, in some of the things that they've suggested just in their analysis, we've already
addressed.
Champion/ Right!
Markus/ You know, on a maintenance level, so some of the items we ... we know that we
probably need to get on sooner than later but ... urn ... I think there'll be plenty of
opportunities to try and match resources to these expenses ... and plenty of time to meet
those challenges.
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Hayek/ Uh -huh.
Bailey/ (several talking) ...looking at...
Wright/ ... carry out for quite a number of years. (several commenting)
Markus/ What's the program time for these improvements?
Platts/ The program time? As far as what we're looking at?
Markus/ Yeah.
Platts/ We're looking out to the 20 -year horizon.
Markus/ Okay.
Platts/ Maybe a bit farther on some of them.
Markus / Right.
Bailey /So I'm looking at your three categories, I mean, facilities needing higher priority, general
space shortage impeding functionality. When you talk about storage space, I mean, just
generally are we talking storage for equipment? Storage for documents? Yes?
Platts/ It ... it really runs the gamut. Yes would be the right answer.
Bailey/ Okay.
Platts/ Um, it's surprising... as we've gone through it I know the number of the staff who have
been involved in the project to date, uh, have been very surprised to see just how much
storage there is. There's storage everywhere. If you had an empty space, there's...
somebody ... not necessarily your department, is storing something in that space. And
then there are some areas (several talking and laughing) and the (both talking)
Bailey/ Do we have too much stuff? (laughter)
Platts/ Um, that's not my call (laughter)
Bailey/ Maybe something we should talk about! (laughter and several talking) Clean out
closets, might ... help. Okay! So it's ... but it's just all kinds of things.
Platts/ Yeah, and some of it has to do with, um, storage that ... that may not be proper for what it
1s, um...
Bailey/ Right.
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Platts/ ...in some areas you're storing documents that is within a flood plain area.
Bailey/ Right.
Platts/ Paper documents. That doesn't ... that doesn't jive usually. Um, and some of the things, it
has to do with, um, police storage, you know, police is very short on storage. They have
contracts with other facilities that they're storing stuff. They have other areas around
town, uh, that bikes are being stored, that cars are being stored. There are just a number
of things that are really hidden from the public eye that items are being stored that ... that
likely should be done, or could be done, in a better way.
Bailey/ So some of the ... that for one category is going to have multiple ways to address (both
talking)
Platts/ Yes, yeah, and the easiest will be build a storage facility, you know, for some of those
things (laughter) but yes, there will be ... there'll be a number of (both talking)
Bailey/ Digitize your documents!
Platts/ Potentially yes! Yes!
Bailey/ Yeah. Okay!
Hayek/ Other questions or comments? Well, this is very helpful. Um ... what ... I'm sorry, but the
way we operate our work sessions (unable to hear person in audience) we ... we only
interact with the Council and staff and ... and if there's a presentation being made, um,
that's how we ... that's how we run our meetings. We have a ... if you have a comment
on ... on the subject, we have an opportunity at tomorrow night's meeting, called
community comment, where we allow and encourage the public to come speak to us
about this or any other issue. (unable to hear person in audience; not at mic) And I
appreciate that, and we ... and going forward we want to hear from you. We want to hear
from the entire community because we're going to be making decisions about our
facilities over the next 20 years and... and what to prioritize and that sort of thing. But
this evening is not really an opportunity for input from the public on this. It's just not the
way our meetings are structured. I would ... I would suggest that we have staff get your
contact information because I saw embedded in your process opportunities for public
input where you're going to go out and ... and ask the public for comment on what at least
they're proposing to us, or telling us are the needs, and I would ask that we make sure we
get that. Kumi, I saw you, uh... did you get that already? Oh, okay, I saw you talking to
this gentleman, I thought ... but if we could get your information, we could make sure
you're made aware of when ... when this group, which the City has hired to do this work,
is soliciting input and ... and kind of taking the ... the show on the road to get the public's,
uh ... feedback. (unable to hear person in audience) Go ahead! And you ... you bring up
some good points and a very fair perspective on ... on these issues. Uh, a couple of things
though. First, we have multiple ways for you to communicate your feelings about the
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November 21, 2011 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 20
direction the City's going, to the City Council and to the public at large, and we can talk
to you outside of this meeting about that, whether it's coming to our meetings or ... or
sitting down with staff or City Councilors or... or things of that nature. Secondly, what
we're talking about right now relates to our facilities, buildings, sewers, uh, the ... the, you
know, bus depots and ... and office space and things like that, and so I think what you're
talking about goes a little beyond what these folks are ... are talking about (unable to hear
person in audience) well, and it may ... and I'm sure at some point it's all related, but ... we
just, we don't have an opportunity at this meeting to..to get into that. So I want ... I would
ask that staff get, uh, your contact information so we can make sure you're engaged
when ... when these folks do their work from now until February. (unable to hear person
in audience) They're... they're public meetings and the entire public is ... is invited to
attend them. So, so thank you! (unable to hear person in audience) Okay. Are there
other, uh, questions or comments from staff or ... or City Council? Okay. So we'll get
this sometime in February, March?
Platts/ Yes. Yeah, we will be completing it ... our work in February or early March, so the
document would be out there, uh, spring.
Hayek/ Okay! All right! Anything else? Okay, thanks a lot. Thanks for making the trip over
(several commenting) Okay. Next item is, uh, Partnership for Alcohol Safety
recommendation concerning exceptions to the 21- ordinance.
Recommendations From Partnership for Alcohol Safety — Changes to 21- Ordinance
Exceptions (05):
Markus/ We have asked the, uh, past committee to come forward and present, um, their
conclusions of their study on this and then we're, uh, willing to talk about the staff's, uh,
reactions, uh, to each position, uh, depending on how you want to proceed through that.
Hayek/ Okay. And, Council, the recommendations are at, uh, the November 17th Info Packet,
#5. Okay, so we've got (both talking) Kelly Bender from the Partnership, uh, and George
Etre and Leah Cohen here, as well. So welcome to the three of you! And as I understand
it, Kelly, you're going to walk us through what ... what your group did.
Bender/ Yeah, um, so my name is Kelly Bender and my position is called Campus Community
Harm Reduction Initiatives Coordinator, and I work for the University of Iowa. So part
of what I do is coordinate the Partnership for Alcohol Safety. It's a ... for those who don't
know, it's a campus- community coalition, whose mission is to ... if I can remember the
statement... correctly. Identify and advocate for strategies that reduce high -risk drinking
and promote a vibrant downtown. So, um, with me are Leah and George, and within the
Partnership where there are few committees, and one of them is the Legislative Policy
Solutions Committee, and we are all three members of that committee. Um, as is Doug
Beardsley, Director of Johnson County Public Health, who's also here today. Um, so
back in May, uh, we started ... we had an LPS Committee meeting and that's when we
started conversations about concerns that Leah and George were starting to see
downtown and the things are shifting a bit, um, whereas when the 21- ordinance first, um,
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enacted, kind of fall 2010, they saw there was ... knew things had kind of calmed down
and they saw a lot of improvements and that seemed to be, um, changing a bit over time.
And, um, they were noticing just some concerns about, um, more younger looking
people, um, around downtown who were clearly intoxicated. So, we started just having
conversations about that, and then they, um, also reached out to other bar owners who are
not in the Partnership, um, and then we began larger conversations about their concerns
and, um, recommendations, and so that process kind of brought us here today where, um,
a total of ten bar owners, representing 15 different establishments downtown, with one
establishment being not downtown, but in Iowa City. Um ... put together a set of
recommendations that we submitted to you. So, think it's important to note that while
I'm in a position to be the contact person to coordinate these efforts, these concerns came
from bar owners. They were initiated from bar and restaurant owners, and the
recommendations are completely from the bar and restaurant owners, um, but certainly
the Partnership for Alcohol Safety, um, has supported them. So, um, the primary concern
that was brought forth by bar and restaurant owners was that a few establishments who
had, um, what we're calling the food related exception certificates, um, were allowing
easy access to alcohol for their underage customers. Um, and this was leading to feelings
that things were starting to get out of control again downtown, um, and because those few
establishments with the exceptions were allowing easy access to alcohol for their
underage customers, the playing field is becoming unlevel. Bars and restaurants who
want to operate responsibly and play by the rules are not able to compete with legitimate
business practices, such as whose got the best food, the best service, best music, best
atmosphere, the usual things that you do to compete for customers. So there's significant
financial incentive to allow underage access to occur, even if they're not actually selling
to the minors. Um, because doing so, of course, allows you to draw large crowds, cover
charge, sales, all sorts of incentives to do that, and not a lot of disincentive to doing that,
because there have been no consequence to the bar owner for letting that happen. The
only consequence has been on lots and lots of young people being charged with PAULA.
Um, but that hasn't been enough to change the behavior of the bar owner, um, because it
doesn't directly affect them, and they're still making the money off of, um, that young
person having been there. Uh, the recommendations we've submitted, particularly the
PAULA ratio requirement, are designed to shift that responsibility back onto the bar
owners so that they are required to find effective ways to decrease underage access to
alcohol in their establishment if they want an exception certificate. The original intention
behind those exceptions to the 21- ordinance was to maintain downtown as a safe place
for people under the age of 21, where they can go for food, entertainment, and socializing
late at night. And we value that! We'd like that to continue and we, um, want to keep
working towards that goal, but in order to do that, we feel it's necessary to establish
stronger standards for people, um, who have those exceptions, um, and requiring
responsible alcohol sales and service practices by those, um, establishments. It's
important to note that most bar and restaurant owners are very responsible. Um, and this
really is about just, um, what's going on in a few establishments, but that, uh, what is
happening in a few establishments is really disrupting the playing field so that people
cannot compete, um, and we really want them to be able to compete with legitimate
business practices and be successful that way. Um ... let's see ... I think that's all I have to
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say. I just kind of wanted to put it out to George and Leah to talk about their perceptions
of what's happening and their involvement. (unable to hear person away from mic)
Hayek/ Yeah, mic up!
Cohen/ We've been here for about a year and a half now with the 21- ordinance on record, and I
think what ... what we saw the first year is we did see ... I as, you may know, did not
approve of this 21- ordinance, and one of the reasons is where we're at today and what we
see is going on, but um, initially it did have a drastic effect on downtown. I think what
happened last spring is we started seeing exceptions starting at, um, people started taking
...I think, um, advantage of the food exceptions is what has happened with it. So they
started letting ... you can kind of see who it is. At 10:00 at night they line up at certain
bars to go in. Um, most of the time the kitchen is closed. This is a food exception, mind
you, it has nothing to do with kitchens being closed, but um, anyway, what we have seen
happen since last spring and ... and certainly this fall is we are no longer a 21 downtown.
It has gone back, reverted to what it was two years ago before the, um, 21 came into
effect. I think you can see that by, um, the numbers. We're still seeing some numbers
from the initial year that were down drastically and PAULAs, ambulances, hospital visits,
all those sorts of things. They have started to climb back up again now and that's the
reason. As Kelly said, we feel there're only certain ones, and I think it's evident by your
PAULA ratios that you can look at each month. Um, where that's happening. But what
it's done is it has put a very unlevel playing field, number one, but number ... more
importantly, it ... we're either 21 or we aren't! (laughter) And what has happened is
certain people have started to work around the laws of this. They are working within the
law because they have exceptions, and it's become a real problem. To be real honest,
um, the bars that we have met with and the names that are on here are only people that
were willing to put their names out, but we've met and talked to most. And, most are
disinterested, um, the ones that aren't are on the sheet that feel that it is affecting all of us
down there, but um, to be real truthful, most of the bars said why do we even need
exceptions. Now we understand that's a drastic change, so we were ... that isn't what we
are proposing. How we came to our proposals was really by looking at the music
ordinance. When the, um, exceptions were put together initially the food was just kind of
50% food and that was about it. When the music ones were put together, as you recall,
you spent a great deal of time and energy on that. That's what we feel has to be done
with the food, it has to carry over into that. Now I know that, um, what we proposed is
basically what all the bars agreed to. So it isn't as though we didn't talk about things
that ... that Eric has proposed also. It's we felt it was important for everybody to come to
a consensus on one thing. So ours may be a little more watered down as such because of
that. But that does not in any way mean that we do not go along with, most of us, what
he may be proposing. Um, the other second concern I have with it, very quickly, is um,
you know, as we talk about the SSMID and what's going to happen with that, if it does
pass and come in downtown, I think all of our retailers have some pretty high
expectations with what's going to happen with that. Whoever is hired for that position is
going to be just like this with the alcohol situation down there again, unless we get that
pulled back in. Thank you.
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Etre/ And I think...
Hayek/ George, you better mic -up as well. (several talking, noises on mic)
Etre/ I think ... Leah brings up some good points, but the other thing is we tried our hardest to
open up the lines of communication with the bar owners and the City, and the committee
that we have, the PSA committee, has done a lot ... a lot with that. Um, but I think for the
most part everybody who has these exemptions, most of them are doing things correctly.
I think we have a couple people who might be taking advantage of the system, which is
what brings us here today. Um, but if nothing, we've opened up the lines of
communication. We've gotten a lot of these bar owners, and restaurant owners, on board.
So I think it's important that we take the momentum that we've had from the past year
and move forward.
Bender/ And I think there's some bar owners and managers who are really on the fence, and that
draw of the money is, you know, like, why shouldn't I do that too if there's no
consequence to doing it? So, um, so I think that's one of our concerns where, you know,
we see some people kind of teetering, not sure which way to go, um, but they're support
...they have gone on record as being supportive of us. Their names are included in this,
but, you know, but if it didn't pass, why shouldn't they just jump in the game and make
all the money, as well.
Etre/ Some of the reco ... recommendations we made we tried to factor in restaurants like mine,
restaurants like Leah, bars like all the different bars, and it's ... it's tough for us to try to
get everybody, what's best for everybody, but I think most of the recommendations we
made work best for everybody involved.
Hayek/ Okay. Um, what I thought I'd do, or you can or I can, walk us through...
Bender/ Yeah, why don't you go ahead (both talking)
Hayek/ ...um, okay. Because there are ... what? Ten, eleven ... ten?
Markus/ Ten items.
Hayek/ Ten items.
Markus /And then we added an item as well that we had some issues with in the end. The idea of
keeping the, um ... kitchen open after hours, if you're operating (several commenting)
under the exception for a restaurant, it seemed logical that the kitchen would be open.
Hayek/ Okay.
Bender/ ...and we'll have some comments about that (both talking)
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Hayek/ Sure! Why don't we go through this and uh ... there's ... there's Eric Goers' memo of
November 17th and then right before it yours from October, where he matches his
paragraphs up with yours so...
Bender/ Right.
Hayek/ ...uh, paragraph 1 is the 50% rule, uh, for, urn ... the food exemption or the non -bar
exception, as he uses it in his ... his memo. Um ... that's already in there so it seems like
it's not a lot to discuss on that item.
Bender/ Right.
Hayek/ Unless someone wants to!
Etre/ The only gray area is we want to be careful that none of the bars and /or restaurants are...
are factoring in any kind of promotions or... factoring in alcohol within... yeah, cover
charges with that either.
Bender/ ...that that's still clear.
Etre/ That that's clear, and I don't know if the City has dealt with that yet. Um...
Bender/ ...tickets at the door (several talking)
Hayek/ ... Eleanor can answer that.
Dilkes/ Yeah, I think that relates to the next recommendation, number 2, or at least that's where
we've addressed it. Um ... we certainly understand... staff I think certainly understands
the concern about trying to verify those numbers. They're very, very difficult to ... to
verify and it's not an expertise that we have on staff. I mean, essentially you'd have to
audit those, um, those figures. So if we want to get a better handle on that, um, first of all
we would ... we would suggest changing the ... when this was first put into place, there was
debate about whether it should be an accountant or a CPA that had to attest to those, um,
sales figures. It ... it really should be a CPA because an accountant can be just about
anybody in the state of Iowa. Um and then secondly that, um ... that, uh ... if necessary
there would be an audit of those figures and it would be done at the cost of the
establishment.
Bailey/ Can you give me more information about an audit, I mean ... I mean, I've been through
some audits, but I mean, once again, a lot of those numbers are provided by the
establishment. What ... what specifically, I mean ... once again, a lot of those numbers are
provided by the establishment. It's just going to be an added expense to perhaps get to
the same information.
Dilkes/ Well, I mean, I think a full- fledged audit, I mean, it would be expensive and (both
talking)
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Bailey/ It is expensive!
Dilkes/ ...when our auditors come in and audit the City, they don't take what we give them.
They look at the actual documentation. That ... that is the kind of audit I think you'd have
to have in order to make sure you were getting ... an accurate representation of the alcohol
and non - alcohol sales.
Bailey/ It would be required in every situation?
Dilkes/ I think ... I think it could be re ... it could be required in every situation, or it could simply
be required if we thought that ... that on its face, um, there was something funny going on.
Bailey/ Because it's a huge expense for a business.
Dilkes/ Right, and all I'm ... and you know, we don't ... you don't have to put that in place. We
just want, I think as a staff, to tell you that we as a staff ...are not going to be in a position
to make that happen.
Bailey/ Right.
Dilkes/ What they're asking for.
Wright/ But it could be a situation where if somebody's got some statistics and high PAULAs,
for example, but it could be a tool for the City to say, we think something's going on.
According to this ordinance (several talking)
Bailey/ Oh, I understand that.
Markus/ But it's a precursor to having the exception to meet the 50% rule, and to date I think the
process is more, uh, we're relying on the information that the individual vendors give us,
and whether or not that meets a criteria. I guess from my perspective, and this isn't
unique to Iowa City. Other places have had to deal with this, uh, ratio of food to alcohol.
It seems to me that we should be hiring somebody that develops a request for
information, maybe not a full audit, but verifiable information and then evaluates that for
all of the establishments. And that that fee be reimbursed, uh, by the individual
establishments, but I think we could ... we could get an independent CPA to do that so that
it's consistent from place to place, and that it isn't totally, uh, just reliant on the
information that's provided by the individual, uh, establishments.
Hayek/ Uh -huh.
Markus/ So that there is some consistency.
Champion/ So if an audit ... an audit would show though that if you spent so much money on
food that you would have invoices to prove that you spent that. I mean, that's the beauty
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of a total audit. Urn ... my concern ... an audit's very, very expensive, as you know, um...
but I ... there could be times where I would think it'd be totally appropriate. For instance,
if the so- called restaurant is charging a cover charge, that to me is an automatic audit!
That tells me something else is going on there! Um, not charging a cover charge to go in
and eat, I can tell you that. I mean, that's not going to happen. But I don't know how to
do ... how you do that, but I would hate to see places that have never been a problem have
to pay for an audit. (several responding)
Dilkes/ I don't think that's what's being proposed here. (several talking) We have many, many,
many restaurant exceptions. We have about four or so that we know from police
experience are ... on the edge, or over the edge, when it comes to whether they're a bar or
a restaurant.
Champion/ Right, okay.
Dilkes/ And those are the ones we're talking about (both talking) auditing.
Cohen/And for instance, what goes on, just to give you an example — there's a, one place that has
a cover charge every night, so they charge $10.00 and $8 of that, you get a free brat or
something along that line, and then $2 go to cover charge. So they're putting $8.00 of
that towards food, and $2.00 towards cover charge for their audit in six months, or not...
for their food exception in six months. See, these are the things that are going on with
three or four.
Etre/ But you do also have, unfortunately it's not as black and white. You do also have
businesses like, for most it would be a perfect example where I own where we sell very
high -end liquor and vodka and wine, where our break -down might be 60% food, 40%
liquor, but we're actually only selling five drinks a night, but we have martinis for $14,
$15 and we have sushi rolls for $3 or $4 so it's not always as black and white if your
sales are 50 %...
Champion/Right.
Etre/ ...you know, we have to be very careful with that now, even though the actual number of
drinks we sell, we might sell ten drinks a night, but we can get $300 or $400 on ... on
some of that stuff. We have some ... some very high -end stuff that we are lucky that we
sell it, so ... and I would hate to see a lot of these small mom and pop restaurants and /or
get ... get dragged into this ... into this thing.
Bailey/ Yeah, that's where I'm coming from, I mean, an audit is so expensive, if we can focus it,
and also I ... I like Tom's idea that we have somebody and they reimburse, versus, you
know, somebody going out and getting somebody to do it, because we have ... we have
some very specific questions we want answered. If...if somebody, I don't know, I think
it just makes a lot more sense, but the margins right now in restaurants are so tight that I
would hate to see everybody have to go through this if it's just a few causing the
problem.
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Dilkes/ That was not the intent of staff s comments.
Hayek/ Aren't we talking about two different things here? One is replacing accountants with
CPAs, and two ... and secondly, uh, an audit in some circumstances.
Champion/ Right!
Hayek/ I mean, those are...
Markus/ I think we're kind of using the word audit to include the more expansive term of what
an audit encompasses...
Hayek/ Yeah!
Markus/ Audits, uh...
Bailey/ An analysis.
Markus/ ...when a full audit is conducted, you're looking at the entire operation. What we're
trying to verify is the breakdown of sales from alcohol to non - alcohol sales, and I think
while you may go in and use the term audit, it might be a spot audit or a special audit to
verify that information, but not a comprehensive audit...
Champion/ Right.
Markus/ ... and I think what we would do is we would have them self -report information to our
CPA based on a form prescribed by a CPA as to what we're looking for. Um ... and then
the CPA using standard methodology could go in and spot audit some of that information
to at least, uh, verify the veracity of the comments or the information that's being
submitted. I don't think we're in ... contemplating that there's ever going to be a full -
blown audit on these operations. That wasn't the intent, but it does need to go beyond
what I think was originally proposed by just having an accountant because the accountant
description can get pretty wide and varied as to the qualification of the individual that
would qualify as an accountant.
Champion/ Okay.
Mims/ (several talking) From staff's perspective when you talk about not necessarily you know
requiring, if I'm hearing you right, not all restaurants, you know, the exception to do this.
What do you have in mind as a standard that would trigger the request for this
information?
Markus/ I think from my perspective, that's something that we would want to talk to the
profession about, what they would see as a trigger mechanism, rather than have staff
develop that. We would bring in, uh, a couple of CPAs that might be interested in
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working on our behalf in this regard. Ask them what they would consider to be a logical,
uh, trigger; when it gets close, if it's like a 5% plus /minus would we want then to go in
and ... and develop additional information. But I think we'd want to talk to the profession
about how we lay this out. This is just our initial reaction to this proposal.
Mims /Are you thinking about anything tied to ... PAULAs or police reports or anything like that
that might trigger requests for more information for the exception?
Dilkes/ Well, that's what I was mentioning earlier, that there's a lot of information we have
about establishments that ... you know, PAULA rate, um, police activity, that kind of
thing that I think would go into that determination about whether we are suspicious about
that number. Um, and the way I would suggest we craft this is simply as a tool that staff
can use if...the experiences that we've had with the bar indicate that that number is
questionable.
Etre/ And I just want to reiterate, I really think that ... I would say 95% of the restaurants do a
good job.
Champion/ Of course!
Etre/ And I think if you just talk to the police and the people who are out at night, they can tell
you what's a bar and what's a restaurant, I mean, or you can (both talking). Yeah, so it...
Mims/ Yeah, I'm partially concerned about the fact that we, like you say, people know, but
crafting something that is defensible on the City's part in terms of what we're doing and
why we're doing it. And still getting to the point we want to get to.
Cohen/ It could be connected to cover charges; to be real truthful it's ... it's, that is what it's all
about is the cover charge because they charge the minors to get in and that's where they
make their money. They're not going to let them in for free! So, the places that do have
the exception and have the cover charges tend to be the ones that have the PAULAs. It
kind of all connects. I don't know...
Dilkes/ Yeah, let ... let me comment on the cover charges though. By ordinance, cover charges
go in the alcohol side of the equation, not on the food side of the equation. So with
respect to the example that Leah gave earlier about 8 of it goes to buy a hot dog and...
when we get those questions posed to our office, we say absolutely not. That's not gonna
work, but ... but then it comes to trying to figure out if that is actually what they've done
when they submit their numbers. That we're saying we don't have the ability at the staff
(several commenting).
Mims/ Yeah, if they report it as $2.00 cover charge and $8.00 food...
Bailey/ Right!
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Hayek/ Well how does your group feel about this... expansion of your proposal on the... on the
CPA issue?
Cohen/ I'm fine with it. I have a CPA that does mine anyway, so...
Etre/ I'm just worried about how it affects the other, smaller restaurants. I mean, the proper
margin in a restaurant is paper thin, and if you add, you know, you add ... a lot of `em
might just be keeping the ... the exemption so when they do sell it, their value for their
businesses is worth a little more and they maybe close at 9:00 at night but to ... to add any
more financial stress I think is ... is tough, cause the ... the people who are making the
problems have enough money because they're charging the cover to ... to, so it's no
problem for them to get a CPA but...
Champion/ But correct me if I'm wrong, Eleanor, the whole point is we're going to have a CPA
help us draw up the right questions. (several responding)
Dilkes/ Let me (several taking) let me ... let me just ... I think we can use the CPA requirement as
a tool, as well.
Champion/ Right.
Dilkes/ Okay? We don't have to change the re ... because of the concern that you've noted, it
doesn't have to be that everybody has to use a CPA, but as with the `audit' if staff is...
has other factors that lead us to be suspicious, we can require that it be a CPA that give us
that number.
Etre/ I, yeah, I would feel comfortable with that, I mean, I...
Champion/ Yeah, that's what we're talking about.
Etre/ If it's bars or restaurants (mumbled) we were all concerned about, then I would have no...
Wright /Something triggers...
Etre/ Right!
Bailey/ Yeah. (several commenting) I just don't want to catch everybody with this huge net and
(several commenting) It's hard out there right now.
Dickens /If you're following the ordinance, you shouldn't be punished. (several responding)
Hayek/ Okay. Is there a consensus on Council to pursue in that direction? (several responding)
Proceed in that direction. Okay, that takes care of 1 and 2. Uh, number 3 has to do with
the, uh, certificate posted at the entrance. That's already a requirement. (mumbled) Um
...number 4 has to do with the duty to pres ... uh, to prevent underage possession, um...
what's Eric say? His response to that is, yes, use the...
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Markus/ PAULA ratio.
Hayek/ PAULA ratio under number 5. So ... why don't we take up number 5? Um, and that,
you're saying that the PAULA ratio we adopted during the 21 process for, uh, split
venues and entertainment venues, um, should be, uh the same for the non -bar or food
exception venues (several responding)
Dickens / What is your feeling on that entertainment venues...
Wright/ That makes a lot of sense.
Dickens/ ...that are, as I ... as you can see here, all the entertainment venues are very low on the
list. Uh, one of, uh, Scott Kaden talked to me about, since there are all ... since they are
taking care of business, their problem is that sometimes their bands run later and they
have to kick these people out that are just there to listen to the music. Is there, I don't
know if there's a way to stretch that a little longer, because they are ... they are following
the letter of the law but, you know, sometimes the bands go to later than midnight or you
know, so I don't know if there's a way to ... since they are very stringent on following that
.25 that if, as long as they maintain that.
Champion/ (several talking) the rule is .5 (both talking)
Dilkes/ .5 for entertainment venues.
Dickens/ .5 but if they're willing to go to .25 and allow people to be in there later to listen to the
music, cause that's what a lot of people are there for.
Dilkes/ That would be a Council decision.
Bailey/ (mumbled) music later that's great! Band plays longer (several talking)
Etre/ ...you might have some restaurants who don't have exceptions, who say we have to have
people out by 10:00 that are with their parents. So, how ... what about us if we have a
table with a mother and daughter on parent's weekend and they're here at 10:00. We
have to kick them out.
Dilkes/ No, not if they're with their parents (several talking)
Etre/ Oh!
Wilburn/ There may be places that try to state that that's ... that Council has banned that, but
that's not the case. And we can't control what they say.
Etre/ Right.
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Hayek/ There may ... there may be some merit to the point you raised, sort of beyond what this
group... proposed. Maybe we (several talking) table that.
Cohen/ ...that is the music, which is a little different. So if they want to go to .25 and stay open
later, I think that's something you people can discuss.
Dickens/ Cause they seem to (both talking) taken care of, not ... not allowing people to drink.
They seem to ... that (both talking)
Cohen/ ...most of the other exceptions (several talking)
Hayek/ So what your group proposed is that the ... the non -bar exception include a .25 ratio, just
like we have with the others, but what George is saying is frankly we ought to go to .25
and if you look at the numbers, it's an achievable... very achievable level. What ... what
are your thoughts on that?
Bender/ Um, well we haven't gotten any objection to it, so um, so they've talked around with
some people and um, and no one seems concerned that that's undoable, um...
Etre/ The only thing is the PAULA ratio's been such a ... blurry line since it...it started, that a lot
of the bar owners I've talked to, it's very hard to define what is a PAULA, how ... what is
a visit. If two cops come in, is that two visits or one visit, and I've dealt with that with
Etc. with my liquor license and I don't know if the City or the State, or anybody's clearly
defined ... what a PAULA is and how...
Bender/ Yeah, so what the number is isn't a concern. What is a concern is just making sure that
it's clear, um, and fair, and I would recommend that at some point law enforcement and
bar and restaurant owners get together and ... and ... and look at what, you know, law
enforcement plans to do, because I know Iowa City and University Police were going to
talk about, um, aligning their, uh, definitions of bar check versus visit and, um, and how
they count and record those things so that there's some consistency if they're both going
to be doing bar checks downtown. I don't know what the status of that is but um, but I
know that bar owners are concerned, you know, if they just come and visit, does that
count? If there's four cops here is that four bar checks? So they just ... they want to just
make sure there's clarity about what to expect, and so I would ... I'd like to have some,
you know, some dialogue about that between bar owners and the police, um, to work on
those... discussions... if possible.
Dilkes/ Um, Sam, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a problem. I think actually
the PD has worked on trying to get more definition on that, um, and I... don't see any
problem with them communicating with the bars about that. (several talking and
laughing)
Wright/ So basically what we're talking about is linking a PAULA ratio to being able to keep
that exception certificate. Is that right?
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Champion/ Yes.
Dilkes/ Yes!
Wright/ I think that's a perfectly logical thing to do.
Bender/ Yeah, we felt like, um, when we originally had the conversation, we, um, had the
discussion about it being a privilege, um, that you can lose, um, if you don't operate your
business responsibly and we just felt like that was important to have in there.
Hayek/ And I think for the historical context of it, the fact that ... the reason the food exception
was one thing essentially 50 plus ... 51% food versus alcohol sales, versus the PAULA
and related, uh, criteria for the others is ... is the fact that the food one has been on the
books for years, and when 21 was adopted, we did the music, uh, carve -out and that's
when the PAULA stuff came into that, but we did not apply it retroactively or to
whatever was already on the books (mumbled). That's why that's (mumbled).
Dilkes/ Just so staff ...just so Council's aware, and given our previous experience with the
PAULA rate in front of the Alcohol Beverage Division, um, this is a completely different
situation when we're dealing with a City- issued exception certificate, so ... I don't
anticipate that that should be a problem.
Hayek/ It doesn't go to the license. It goes to the exception.
Wright/ Right, and we have full control over that, so...
Hayek/ Okay, is ... is ... uh, Council's thoughts on #5 is...
Mims/ I like .25!
Wright/ I do too!
Mims/ I mean, when you look at the statistics, it looks like the vast majority of the venues can
stay under .2 5, and a lot of them considerably under .25.
Wright/ Yeah, that should be very doable.
Champion/ It is doable.
Mims/ I have no problem going to the .25.
Champion/ I don't either.
Hayek/ All right. Number 6, uh, has to do with markings, wristbands, etc., um, City Attorney's
office appears to concur with that, has identified some challenges... in terms of not
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wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water but urn ... do you have any more...
more comments on that, on ... on Eric's response to your 46?
Cohen/ We don't ... we've never used wristbands at Bo James. We do a permanent marker
Smiley face, um ... I think different... everybody does something a little different, but
wristbands are very easy to take off and tape on for ... reusing with minors or faking it or
however you do with it. So, they aren't really as foolproof as you might think. Um, with
that ... a lot of people do markings or stamps, um, and do not do wristbands. Usually the
ones that have minors ... we don't ... we have an exception but we don't typically let in
minors anyway. But, um, the ones that do minors typically do a big "x," like a big "X"
on their hand, um, so markers are used a lot. I just didn't know if...I didn't realize I'm
kind of breaking the law as it is (laughter) by not...
Etre/ Wristbands are also, I mean, they're not expensive but it's another added cost (several
talking) but it does help clarify, I mean, the police can see, anybody can see, as they walk
in. You can see a wristband from a mile away so it helps ... it does help distinguish who
should or who shouldn't be having drinks.
Dilkes/ Well, just to clarify, the wristband proposal came from you all so if that ... you know. We
were just responding to that. (several responding)
Markus/ It's one or the other, it's marking and/or ... both.
Bender/ Yeah, it was a requirement for the entertainment venue and we just added it in.
Urn ... cause it certainly seemed to be, um, some kind of marking requirement seemed to
be a good, um, thing to put in, whether it's a wristband or something else, you know, we
didn't have a lot of discussion about so...
Champion/ But we don't have, our restaurants don't have to mark people.
Etre/ Well, we do after 10:00, I mean, if you... you know, if you... if you have people entering
after 10:00, you know, you have to. Um, and you also should mark everybody that's
already in the restaurant... that's there ... at 10:00, to make sure that they're not coming to
the bar to drink and haven't been properly checked.
Champion/ I guess I didn't know that. Nobody's ever tried to mark me! (laughter)
Wright/ I'm not touchin' that! (laughter)
Hayek/ All right, this ... go ahead, Leah.
Cohen/ I don't think we follow the letter of that law, is what I'm saying. I think the officers all
typically know what goes on in each of our places, what our markings are, sort of thing
but ... so I don't know if we should look at that or not, but ... I would say that probably
50% follow that and 50 don't! (laughter)
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Hayek/ Well...
Dilkes/ It's only a requirement for entertainment venues right now.
Champion/ Uh -huh.
Bender/ Right, yeah none of the barn ... bar owners objected to it when we discussed adding it to
the list, um, so it's just one of those things, maybe we discuss if it can be any kind of a
marking, but...
Champion/ But not if you're going in for dinner.
Bender/ Right. After a certain time maybe.
Hayek/ Okay. But to be sure as Eleanor mentioned, I mean, this ... this #6 came from you guys.
We responded to it. You're still interested in us looking at it.
Bender/ Yes.
Etre/ Correct.
Hayek/ Okay. Council?
Mims/ I don't feel real strong about it (both talking)
Champion/ I don't either. I just don't.
Mims/ I mean ... you know, somebody's going in at 8:30 for dinner, you know, are we going to
force the restaurants to...
Hayek/ Yeah.
Mims/ ...to mark them? I ... I don't see the need for that. I think ... I think if we put in some
pretty stringent PAULA ratios, um, and are looking at some of the... some of these other
things. We've got some other issues as we go down this line that I think are ... are much
more ... have much more of an impact, um ... I think we have ways to ... to really get at the
enforcement of this, rather than the marking. I think it's up to the restaurant or bar to
decide what's their easiest ... what do they need to do to make sure they can enforce it and
stay within the rules, and so if they decide that wristbands is best for them or magic
marker is best for them, I would say leave it up to them. I think we've got some more
powerful tools here than forcing that on them.
Dickens/ I agree with...
Bender/ ...that certainly makes sense to leave it up to the business to say this is going to make it
easiest for me to ensure that I don't serve somebody (both talking). Yeah.
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Hayek/ I think that makes the most sense. So maybe we take a pass on 46 and keep it on the
shelf in case it becomes necessary in the future. Agreement?
Champion/ Uh -huh.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dilkes/ Mr. Mayor, 7 and 8 are simply just notations that those are on the books and that's not a
problem. You want to jump down to #9.
Hayek/ Yeah. Okay. Um ... this has to do with the revocation criteria, and uh, I mean, I think
what the City Attorney's saying is that we've got, uh, a very deliberately worded,
carefully crafted language in there, uh, on the entertainment side. Why not use that to
accomplish the same end? Do I have that (several talking)
Dilkes/ ...and then the other...
Bender/ Go ahead. Sorry!
Dilkes/ ...the other main issue there is the issue of whether we're using a 2 -year period or we're
using a 5 -year period, um, for um ... the ... the sales.
Hayek/ The sales to minors?
Dilkes/ Yeah, and ... the committee had recommended 2- years. We have 5 -years in the
entertainment venue, and the State law does 5 -years with the, um, sales to minors. That's
the window.
Etre/ The only feedback I would give, and I know this sounds cliche, but a lot of good bars
and /or restaurants can fail the stings.
Champion/ Oh, sure!
Etre/ I mean, it...it doesn't make those bars bad ownership or bad, I mean, a lot of them are 18,
19- year -old kids who are serving in a ... as much as you beat into their heads, it's server.
It's a human error that they make those mistakes.
Dickens/ Are we looking for consistency then with the 5 -year that it follow the same as the State
or...
Dilkes/ I think that's part of the issue here. And I ... I think as Eric notes in the memo, that the...
the State consequences, the loss of a license, where here we're just talking about the
exception certificate.
Dickens/ Yeah.
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Champion/ So are we ... Eleanor, help me out here. Are we saying that your PAULA rate's going
to be based on 5- years?
Dilkes/ No. This is ... this is the window within which if you get a ... if you have two sales to
minors...
Champion/Oh, sales!
Dilkes/ Then ... whether it's a 5 -year window or a 2 -year window.
Etre/ Which I think since the 21 -law has come into effect you've seen in your numbers the sales
to minors at bar /restaurants has gone down, seems to have gone down, dramatically. It
seems like some of the convenient stores have gone up, but when they talked about
stings, it seems at least the major problem bars you would think, it seems that they have
done a better job on doing that.
Dilkes/ Yeah, I think that's right. We have seen significant improvement.
Mims/ I mean, I would say go with the 5 -year if...if the State is using the 5 -year and that's their
liquor license, that's a whole lot more significant to them than this exception is, so ... if
they're not going to keep it clean to keep their liquor license, then the exception's a
miniscule issue.
Wright/ I think 5 years... is logical. It's consistent.
Hayek/ I think the point of this push has been to make the various exceptions consistent with
each other, and so from that perspective it does make sense to just include what we're
already doing on the other side for this.
Bender/ Yeah, it wasn't a major point of discussion for our group, um, you know, they felt like it
should be included in there as possible revocation piece, um, some felt that maybe 5
years was too long of a period of time, um, and just shorten that up a little bit, but um, for
the exception certificate, but I don't think it's anything people ... it's not a deal breaker.
Hayek/ Okay.
Mims/ I mean, it sounds ... if I'm interpreting this right, if you have two of those convictions in 5
years, you're probably going to lose your liquor license anyway. Is that right?
Etre/ (several talking) ...liquor license first ... yeah, for 30 days.
Bender/ For 30 days?
Dilkes/ If you have twice within a 2 -year period, you get a $1,500 fine and a suspension of 30-
days ... under the State code. And that's (both talking)
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Etre/ ...now has ... is going to at our PAS meeting they ... they're going to do an I -alert, or an ...or
a pledge ID or something with the State where if you take an online class ... the server, the
first serving a minor you get will be off of the businesses record. What they're trying to
implement by hopefully by January.
Hayek/ Right. Okay so ... I'm reading consensus from Council on #9 to proceed as stated in the
memo.
Champion/ Right.
Dickens/ Yes.
Hayek/ Okay. In Eric's memo, to be clear! Uh, #10, uh, has to do with the 6- month,
um ... exemption or ... start-up exemption, urn ... do you guys have anything to add to...
Etre/ From the ... from the feedback I've gotten, I think that's probably the most important, and
the biggest loophole that's probably going to be taken advantage of, is ... now it's ... when
you get a new business, you have six months of having 19- year -olds in there, as opposed
to you have six months to show us that you deserve, or that you've worked with the City,
or worked with these requirements, to make sure that you are responsible enough to have
19 -year -olds in there, and I think that's... that's the biggest loophole I think that there is,
because a lot of these bars have ... what I see is happening is just them transferring owners
and transferring owners and everybody getting six months as a ... it's a pretty big cushion.
Hayek/ How does Council feel about that?
Champion/ Does this address the problem though? Does it address the problem?
Hayek/ Well, I think the way it's proposed it ... you'd get one of those, because we don't want to
discourage startup businesses (several responding) repeat it again and again and again to
continue that...
Champion/ Oh, you mean...
Dickens/ You only get once in a 3 -year period ... that you can use that 6-month ... (several talking)
Bender/ So even if you didn't, you know, wouldn't be able to normally get that exception
certificate renewed, if you just change ownership, so you can start over again and...
Champion/ Right!
Bender/ ...for another 6 months.
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Champion/ So it's actually the building... that we're giving the exemption to (several talking) but
if the business moves now does that get another exemption? Like, what if two bars just
changed places (laughter) and take their name with them?
Bender/ I think that's a fair question! (laughter)
Champion/ Gotta think about these things!
Dickens/ She's got a good, devious mind! (laughter)
Etre/ Well I don't know what the ... what the liquor license within ... I don't think you can have a
new liquor license within 500 -feet of another one, so I think that'll cancel that out.
Champion/ That's right!
Etre/ Yeah. (several talking) I mean, I think... if you look at the numbers, two of the ones that
we're having problems with with the PAULAs are bars that have either reopened or sold
ownership in the past, um, year, which is how they got their exemption in the first place,
and ... I think this would ... this would stop a lot of that stuff from happening, and you'd
probably be a lot more careful of who you sold your bar to, um, or restaurant, and make
sure that they ran it accordingly.
Champion/ So the rule is though that the bar has to be closed for a year, uh, before it can't be a
bar anymore, isn't that correct? So ... you could ... close for six months and then sell your
business, and they could still be a bar. You could still have a liquor license, it could still
be a bar. So then would that new owner then have that new exception?
Etre/ As of now, yes. If this is in there you'd only get it once, and then if they did that again,
they wouldn't get it again ... until they prove that they can keep their PAULAs down and
that their food sales are ... these requirements.
Wright/ It's essentially something that goes as an asset, so to speak, with the business...
Bailey/ Goes with the business.
Wright/ ...so if I ... if I sell my bar to Matt, you get my ... my exception certificate...
Karr/ No, that's not ... no, that's not quite right.
Hayek/ Yeah, let's let Marian...
Karr/ I think there is some confusion and I understand the distinction here that's really important
is at the same location. The way it is right now, when there is a new establishment, they
come in, they make an application for a six -month exception. They don't know what
their figures are, even if they buy an existing business. They wouldn't know (several
responding) so they make an application. They're granted that six months. At the end of
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that six months, they then file the papers that would coincide with continuation of that
exception every year, okay? In Connie's example, if a business were to close and reopen
under new ownership, under the present ... it would be a new business at the same
location, and would get a six -month exception again under the same premises of a new
business. This reads there's only one six -month exception granted for any business,
whether it's a current one or a new one, at the same location (both talking) for three
years.
Champion/ Okay, great. Okay.
Etre/ What we're trying to do is trying to ... instead of automatically when you, even if you don't
have the exception, if you buy that build... business, you automatically get one! We're
trying to say you need to show and prove that you're responsible and this is a privilege
and an honor and that you shouldn't just be getting it because you bought the business.
Dilkes/ We should tell you that staff ...there was an earlier recommendation, I think, to not allow
the six month exception at all, and I think ... for new businesses, and I think the concern
that staff had with that is that ... there are legitimate restaurants who may want to open up
and to not allow them to have that exception to start with would be...
Champion/ Right! We've had two new ones open up in the past year (both talking)
Dilkes/ ...would be a chilling effect on those establishments. So...
Karr/ Right. So in essence that new restaurant or bar, whichever, would have to wait and prove
in their second six months that their first six months substantiated. So the only way a
new person or new business would be allowed under this proposal would be to operate
(both talking) right. So I mean that's the distinction.
Champion/ Uh -huh, uh -huh.
Karr/ Location. Not ownership or not business.
Hayek/ Okay. Is Council all right with ... with 410 as ... (several talking) responded to by Eric
Goers? Okay. So that would eliminate the repeat gaming... issue. Okay. And then the
last thing ... it wasn't specifically proposed by PAS but brought up at the end of this
memo, has to do with (mumbled) and Tom mentioned this at the onset, is ... is keeping the
kitchen open past 10:00 if you've got a food exemption ... um...
Bailey/ Yes. We need more late -night food places (laughter)
Etre/ The only concern ... we ... we actually brought this up at our meeting too. The only concern
are for restaurants like myself, um ... the payroll is ... these are chefs and the payroll to
have them stay until midnight or whatever is ... is extremely high. It's hard to find staff,
let alone have them stay there. Uh, we were afraid that there's ... a lot of people who are
just going to have a fry guy that just runs the fryer, that are bars and say that they have a
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late -night menu or limited menu, but for restaurants who don't really use ... who aren't
really a bar but will have people stay there until 11:30 or til midnight, to have to have
staff and have a full menu, it's hard enough for us to have a full menu at dinner let alone
staff. The other thing you need to take into consideration is ... if we're staffed until 10:00
and we're a full- fledged restaurant, by the time we get that staff out of there, it's not til
midnight. It takes two hours for our chefs to close down the kitchen. So it's not just the
payroll to have them there while the bar is open. It's also that if you close at midnight,
that staff's not going to get out of there until 2:00 A.M. now. So it's ... it's payroll on top
of payroll on top of payroll. Um... so that was the hesitation that a lot of these, um, bar
owners (mumbled). I understand that it makes sense if you are a restaurant... and you
have a food exception to be open to serve food, um, but the logistics of it, it doesn't
quite ... in my, in our restaurant, like Takanami, a high -end restaurant like that, it'd be
very hard for us. We have a wedding party on Friday that might stay in til 11:30 or
midnight. Takanami's not a bar by any means, but if we want to have people there til
11:30 or midnight, it'd be very hard and nearly impossible for us to have that fully
staffed.
Champion/ I can understand that, and if I go to a restaurant at 9:30 and I'm still there at 11:00,
that doesn't mean the kitchen is still open for meals, I mean, for ordering.
Etre/ Right (both talking)
Champion./ I could still be eating and having a dessert or whatever, so I ... I think the more
important thing than having the kitchen open is going to be the PAULA ratio. That's
going to really determine, whether you're a bar or a restaurant.
Bailey/ If it's a restaurant you should be able to get food!
Champion/ But...
Bailey/ I mean ... and if you're no longer serving food, then you're closed, cause you're a
restaurant.
Champion/ But you still could have people in there, could still be eating and...
Bailey/ Sure!
Champion/ ... I ... I don't know if that' s really going to make a difference. There's a ... I bet if
you talked to most of the, what, the legitimate restaurants, uh, who close their kitchens at
10:00... for the very reason you're saying, aren't creating any problems for anybody. I
mean, we're talking about people who are creating problems here, and making a solution
that we think is going to keep them from making problems for us can really affect other
people very negatively, and ... yeah, they can somebody in there making French fries! I
could do that.
Markus/ But this only applies to the exception.
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Bailey/ Right!
Wright/ Yeah.
Markus/ This is ... this is not ... it means that only under 21 would not ... they would not have that
exception for the under 21. They could still operate, um ... their establishment for
anybody of legal age! (several responding) You're not shutting the place down! You're
only not allowing the exception to occur. And the exception exists in the first place
because it's ... it's a restaurant, and if it's a restaurant, the kitchen should be open.
Champion/ So, what about if he's having a wedding reception at his restaurant and there is
minors who are attending that wedding reception, what happens then?
Markus/ Kitchen should be open.
Champion/ Well, I think that's ... I mean, I doubt if the Sheraton...
Bailey/ Most restaurants though, if you're ... if you are there ... most restaurants, if you're there
past...
Dilkes/ The minors are probably there with their parents.
Champion/ Oh, right! Yeah.
Cohen/ Which is allowed, and I think probably what many will do will be limited kitchen. I
don't necessarily agree with George on this. We did have agreement, non - agreement
amongst us on it because I feel this is a food exception. That's what it is. It's not an
entertainment exception. It's a food exception so to me it makes perfect sense that
kitchens would be open until close. Mine isn't currently, but I know I would have to start
doing that too! But...
Champion/ But you don't let anybody in under 21 anyway after 10:00.
Cohen/ But I have an exception. So ... if I have the exception, that's what I'll have to weigh.
Those things out when I go for my next exception, I guess. But ... but I do think that we
need to keep in mind this is a food exemption. That's what we're talking about is a food
exemption so to me ... it makes sense. These large bars are closing their kitchens. You
could never get a table in there to begin with. They're closing their kitchens at 10:00 at
night, getting their cover charges, and the drinkers in there and that's it. So...
Dilkes/ You know, remember ... a restaurant can choose not to get the exception. You know, a
rest ... if a restaurant thinks that that cost of keeping their food available... is not worth it,
then they don't have to take the exception.
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Champion/ Okay! Yeah, that's true, so ... and any minor in some of these places is going to have
somebody older to pay the bill anyway. (noise on mic, several talking)
Wright/ ... at 10:00... if you stop taking orders at 10:00, and I come in at 9:58, you're still going
to process my order.
Etre/ Well, not if you're 19 or 20 we won't, because we won't have our exception, which means
you have to be out of there at 10:00. So if you're 19 or 20 and you come in at 9:58, I
can't have sushi guys stay there until 11:00 or 12:00 or whatever time, so if you come in
and you're 19 or 20 and want to order food at 9:58, we're not going to be able to seat
you.
Wright/ Because you don't have the exception.
Etre/ Because we wouldn't be able to afford to have the exemption, to have the staff, that
would ... have to have the kitchen open, so you lose out a lot of...a lot of that. And there
are, different times, we just had them with football season. We keep our kitchen open
later during football season because you have a lot of people that are coming and trying
to get food and this and that, but the reason we have our exception is to not have to kick
out customers at 9:00, at 9:30, at 9:58. That's why I personally have mine. Now I
wouldn't be able to keep it with this ... with this kitchen thing, because it wouldn't be
worth me, you know, turning away customers like that to pay for staff to ... make sushi or
whatever. So that's the other conundrum (several talking)
Mims/ I find this one a little bit difficult. I didn't think I would, but I ... I think there's two
different kinds of establishments. I mean, I think there's the legitimate restaurant
establishment who does bring in the later in the evening clientele who is there to eat, who
may not normally be out by 10:00, and they are maybe college students under the age of
21, and they are basically operating as a restaurant. Their PAULAs are fine, etc., and
then I think you've got the others who are calling themselves a restaurant and shutting
down their kitchen and after 10:00 are really just operating as a bar.
Bailey/ Right.
Mims/ And so my concern, if we say ... if you're going to have this exception, then you
automatically have to have your kitchen open until midnight or 2:00, or whatever. There
are some legitimate restaurants that we are hurting, and that bothers me.
Champion/ Yeah, it does bother me too. I think it's (both talking)
Mims/ ... get at it a different way.
Champion/ I think the PAULAs are going to take care of it, I really do!
Etre/ And I understand the ... I understand the spirit of (several talking) of #10. I understand
what it's doing. I just think it's going to affect ... I don't think it's going to affect these
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bigger bars cause they can just have a kid that they're paying 8 -bucks to be a fry guy and
they can run either a limited menu or I think on here it's a full menu, um, but they can
also change their price and say if you want a hot dog it's going to be 50 -bucks so that
nobody does order food. Um ... so it just hurts, in my example, and I'm sure there's
others. When we discussed it, the consensus was for the bar owners that didn't... didn't
vote for it, um, but I think it hurts a lot of the small guys, or the ... or the actual
restaurants.
Bailey/ But the actual ... a lot of the actual restaurants... okay. Let me ask a question. Don't
some of the actual restaurants that have the exception make business decisions to ... they
may not stay open for example until 12:00. They have their kitchen open until they're
closed, and then they're done. Whereas what we're getting into problems with are those
that want to really stay open until 12:00 or 2:00 or whatever, because restaurants are
making restaurant -type decisions, not bar -type decisions. I mean, if it's a ... if it's a busy
night and it's 11:00 and people are still coming in to get food, you're still ... you're still
keeping a staff and you're still cooking, but if it's a quiet night, and people are gone by
9:30, you're (mumbled) gone, everybody's gone, you're closed! And you're not seating
anyone! That's a restaurant decision, versus ... a bar decision, which is we'll just, you
know, have a fry guy stay and do a limited menu and stay open late. That...
Champion/ You could have people coming in...
Bailey/ ...that's a distinction I see between restaurants, I mean, they're making restaurant -type
decisions.
Champion/ ...but you could have people coming in at 9:45 for instance who are not of legal age
who want to order a meal.
Bailey/ Right!
Champion/ And ... if you ... they could stay after 11:00 ... if they ordered food or if they were
eating, but with this ... they couldn't.
Bailey/ No! But if you're a restaurant, then you're going to ... then if you get somebody in at
11:45, your last table's finishing up, this is it for the night if you're a restaurant. The next
people come in, you say well, we're closing. You're not staying open to try to get those
extra minors or drinks or whatever. You're making restaurant -type decisions.
Champion/ I don't know. I think the ... I think that's narrow- minded. I ... I really do. (several
talking)
Bailey/ ...narrow- minded, I think it's (both talking)
Champion/ I think it is! I think (both talking)
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Bailey/ ...get at. Well, if Motley Cow, Chef's Table, those kinds of, you know, Devotay, Linn
Street Cafe, all of those are making restaurant -type decisions.
Champion/ But they all have bars that people sit around ... Linn Street Cafe, uh, Takanami...
Bailey/ Right! And you can pretty much get food, as long as you hang out there.
Champion/ I don't think so!
Etre/ The other concern that we have is ... is the (several talking) is ... like at Takanami, we're next
to the Blue Moose who has a lot of live music. Well, a lot of those shows are all ... the
younger shows are earlier so they get out at 9:30 or 9:45. So we'll get a wave of people
who were underage there that are just coming for food, uh, and if we expand the hours for
the music, they're going to be there until 11:00 for ... all types of shows. So they'll be
coming even ... even later.
Champion/ I think we should put this ... that one off for a little bit. Maybe hear from some more
people.
Wright/ We're not going to come to clarity tonight, I don't think!
Hayek/ Yeah. You know, it seems to me we've had strong consensus on (several talking) first
ten points. I'm not sure it's worth it on this additional point ... if we're split.
Wright/ And apparently you guys were split on it too.
Mims/ Yes.
Bailey/ Uh -huh.
Etre/ And there's so many different restaurant, bars, whatever you want to call them that's in the
mix that everybody gets affected.
Cohen/ We don't want to hurt the legitimate ones. It's, you know, that's what you were saying is
true. It's ... it's a real challenge with this whole thing and I think what's going to kick it
here is the .25 PAULAs.
Champion/ I... and I was thinking about (both talking)
Cohen/ That's what we really want!
Champion/ ...I mean, you're right by the hotel and people coming in to go to their rooms would
stop into your bar and...
Etre/ And we get a lot of late -night check -ins (both talking)
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Champion/ Right! Right, and it's logical, it's right there off the lobby of the hotel, um, you
know (mumbled) we don't have any consensus on that one.
Mims/ I think that's a good point. I think we've ... what I would suggest is we start with the ones
that we are in strong consensus on. See where that takes us down the road, and this
kitchen one is certainly one we can always come back to, if we feel that's something that
we need to add. I ... I'm just concerned that putting that in will hurt some true restaurants.
(several talking)
Hayek/ And I would also say this, that, um ... through the 21 process, the Partnership For Alcohol
Safety ran the risk of falling apart with the bar community walking away from the table.
They didn't. They stayed engaged, and this process is the product of that, and I think it's
important to respect what that group did. Um, so I mean, I ... I have mixed feelings on
this last issue. I mean, I certainly see the logic of it. (several responding) Um ... but
maybe we leave that alone and go with what we've talked about already.
Etre/ I think we have some very strong points in these nine that are going to take care of 99% of
our problems.
Hayek/ Okay.
Cohen/ I think we'd be in agreement. It's, you know, the fact is we're 21 now. We need to try
and make this work, and I think the points, the main points you got here I think will make
it work.
Champion/ I see the Police Chief is here. Do you have any comments on any of these decisions
we're making? Given up on commenting to us? (laughter)
Hayek/ Need a microphone? (several talking and laughing)
Hargadine/ You know, I ... I think, um, there's two sides to this. It's not easy, and um, I think the
ones that you're questioning, we've been debating this for ... you know, years almost.
Hayek/ Millennia?
Hargadine/ Correct! Um ... the short answer is no, I don't have anything additional. I think
you've debated a lot of the things that we've been wrestling with, um, and talking about
for a long time.
Champion/ And ... and, Chief, are we going to continue to get, um, combined PAULA numbers
from the University and the Iowa City Police? Like this little graph has?
Hargadine/ A quick yes on the Iowa City Police, uh, we're trying to, uh, streamline the data with
the University. It'll keep getting better.
Champion/ Okay. Cause I think that's really important.
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Mims/ Let me ask just one additional question then to clarify. Are the PAULAs that we're using
for enforcement of any of our rules, are those Iowa City PD and UIPD combined?
Champion/ Sure! I hope so!
Hargadine/ We haven't decided that, but uh, that is certainly a...
Markus/ What have they been in the past?
Hargadine/ It's just Iowa City.
Mims/ I think it should be both (several responding). They're down there enforcing, then we
should be using their numbers.
Markus/ We need uniform enforcement, and I think there's been issues of how they're reporting
to make sure that the reporting is consistent between the two agencies.
Hargadine/ They've never seen the need before ... you know, what's the point of the PAULA
ratio, because it means nothing to their police department. They're not the ones that
comes back to address you. So now they're ... you know, with Kelly's help, and PAS,
now they're starting to see the need for that. So, urn ... I think the light bulb's turned on
and ... and it'll keep getting better.
Champion/ Do we have to make a... a new ordinance that would say that we could include the
University Police along with the Iowa City Police PAULA reports?
Dilkes/ We're going to ... we're going to have to do a new ordinance to put all these things in
place so we'll address that. I just wanted to comment on the ... um, if you ... you'll see the
chart here from the, uh ... UI Police. There's no visit numbers there. So we couldn't take
this information and use it right now.
Champion/ Oh, okay.
Dilkes/ So that has to be all addressed, and with the concern that Kelly mentioned about,
um ... you know everybody on the same page about what's a visit and ... we ... we got to do
some work to make that ... work.
Markus/ You have to remember that ... a bar owner who is getting close to whatever we set as the
PAULA rate, they're going to ... they're going to want verification about what a visit was
(both talking)
Champion/Right, sure.
Markus/ ... and you know, so... so that when you compute that PAULA ratio, you better be able
to defend it! And ... I think Sam is correct or the Chief is correct in his ... his comments
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about how ... how we compute all those things and that we have a different interest
necessarily than the University has, uh, in the past.
Champion/ So there's another project (mumbled) to work on.
Hayek/ Okay (several talking)
Mims/ I would certainly encourage you, Kelly, to ... to take that back to the U of I administration
and Chuck Green that, you know, if we're going to do this and do it effectively to be fair
to the businesses we have to have both Iowa City PD and UIPD on the same page and
operating under the same sets of rules and parameters, in terms of, you know, defining a
visit and giving tickets, etc., and you know, that might mean some joint work and joint
training between officers and ... and Sam and Chuck or whatever, but I think we really
need to get them all on the same page.
Bender/ Yeah, I've had a few conversations with both Chuck Green and David Visen about that,
and so they understand the issues and, you know, it's a little bit complicated to get us
there, but we'll ... they understand the importance, and that chart I provided, knowing that
it doesn't tell you the number of visits, but just to give you some perspective on how
different it might look if you included University data in that...
Hayek/ Okay.
Bender/ ...um, cause I think it could be quite different, so...
Hayek/ Okay. Anything else to add, Eleanor, or staff? Okay. Okay, thank you, uh (several
talking) Let's take a five minute break and continue on with our work session.
(BREAK)
Immimtion/Buildin2 Safe Communities:
Hayek/ Okay, let's uh ... convene the meeting again, and the next item is the immigration and
Building Safe Communities item. There's a memo from, uh, Dale Helling in our packet.
This is the November 17th packet. Uh, IP6. Do we want to follow the same...
Champion/Yeah! That was good.
Hayek/ ...we did on the PAS? Dale, I don't care if you MC it or I do.
Helling/ No, well, I think ... you're going to be obviously be...be walking through it, uh, what we
tried to do is just get a ... assuming that there are certain information that we had that
might be helpful to you as you work your way through these, and that's what you've been
given. Certainly there's, uh, there's a lot more detailed information once you zero in on,
you know, which of these you're interested in pursuing, that staff can ... can do, and uh,
put together for you, um, because this'll be an ongoing... probably, you know, ongoing in
the sense that, uh, the ... the Human Rights Commission is advisory to the City Council
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and so, you know that I think ... that's the relationship you ... you certainly want to
maintain and so you'll have ongoing communications with the Commission as we work
through these, and they'll have their input as well. Uh, but hopefully the information that
was given you will be helpful, uh, certainly if you need additional information, and we
know things that you're specifically interested in, we can ... we can do that. We just
didn't want to spend a huge amount of staff time getting a lot of detail and then find out
it's ... it's something that you weren't really interested in pursuing.
Hayek/ Okay. Why don't we jump through these. Um ... let's start at the beginning, um ... I'm
going to be working off of Dale's memo here, but hopefully you brought your material
from early... earlier meetings, as well. So the first recommendation was implementation
of a municipal ordinance. And you see the, uh, perspective of staff on that.
Markus/ There were some cautions in here obviously from the City Attorney. Previously she
reported on those cautions about entering into the ordinances, um, and ... even though we
could legally adopt those ordinances, I think she, um, Eleanor commented about being
cautious because certain federal programs that, uh, we're involved in, in terms of
reporting, probably contrary to some of the provisions of those ordinance, and maybe, uh,
if Eleanor is willing, she could comment further on that but ... I think those comments
were made earlier.
Dilkes/ I mean, this ... this is basically just a condensed version of what I said in my memo, um,
back in February I think it was, um ... I ... I just think if you adopt such an ordinance, you
need to be, um ... I guess I say it ... the way that I see it is ... is what I say in the last
sentence of the ... the second paragraph there is that I think that the City, because of the
Secure Communities Program, assists, uh, in the investigation of immigration status
every time it takes a fingerprint. And ... you know... that's... that's a judgment for you all
to make. That's ... I'm just telling you the way that I see it. And ... and I think it's
difficult once you put an ordinance in place and it ... the ordinance is not necessarily the
details of the ordinance but the perception of the ordinance, um, I think you're going to
have to do a lot ... a lot of education to make sure that there's not, um, a misinterpretation
of what that ordinance can and can't do, in light of Secure Communities.
Mims/ That's my concern as I look at this is ... are, if we try and draft an ordinance to do this
clarification, are we simply causing more confusion for the community, um, than we're
clearing up? And if, you know, if that's what we're doing, urn ... in light of, you know,
what the City has to do as part of Secure Communities, then it doesn't seem to me that
this is a path to go down. I think there's other things here that we can do, and should do,
um, that are ... that are maybe more specific in terms of activities and behaviors of, you
know, City staff and procedures, whereas this, um ... I ... I just think has too many ways
that it can be misinterpreted.
Champion/ Well, I think that's a real problem with it, and by adopting an ordinance that has
these things in it, then the minute somebody gets fingerprinted it's worthless, cause the
fingerprints go to the National Fingerprint... whatever it's called. So it does give people a
false sense of security, I think.
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Dilkes/ Let ... let me clarify, of course those only relate to the law enforcement aspects of that
ordinance, and as you'll see in rec ... recommendation #2, um, we actually referenced a
piece of that ordinance that ... that I don't think would be problematic, so I just wanted to
clarify that we're talking about the law enforcement issues.
Champion/ Right, right.
Wilburn/ In my opinion, you know, there are several items that, uh, could be grouped under such
an ordinance, but um ... I agree that, uh, while there are some advocates that disagree or
don't believe that a federal consequence or a state consequence could come about, um...
my experiences in ... public service and as a ... elected and as a staff member where, um,
the higher level of governance (mumbled) follows through with the consequence, and it
is ... it is what it is, and I would also hate to see it take away, uh, in the area of law
enforcement, our ability to have access to data that is going to lead to, um, arrest,
conviction of, you know, certain domestic violence situations, those types of things, but
in such an ordinance, something real, I think, clarifying City role and staff, employees,
would be helpful and beneficial from what we saw when kind of the survey went out, uh,
and for example, I know we're not there yet, but recommendation 2 would be something
that I would be supportive (several responding) we'll go through those, but I ... I, um, in
some ... way, shape, or form whatever we are able to come to, uh, a majority on, um, there
will be some reliance on those advocating adoption of some or all of these, will have to
rely on them to assist the City, uh, the City itself, the departments, the Human Rights
Commission into educating the committee and education is always an ongoing, uh, issue.
Bailey/ Whereas I ... I do agree that it could be very confusing to draft an ordinance, when I look
at this, the Minneapolis ordinance essentially is a `don't ask' and `don't enforce,' so it
sounds like the Minneapolis ordinance does some explaining of the participation of
Minneapolis, and correct me if I'm wrong cause I don't have it in front of me, um, does
some clarification of Minneapolis's, um, police force's involvement with immigration
issues. That is to say, they don't ... they have a policy of not asking. They limit inquiries
about immigration status and they limit arrests and detention for violation of immigration
laws, and ... that portion seems that, um, despite the fact that we ... we are in cooperation
to send information, um, to the federal government, what is our policy locally? I mean, I
think that's what the Human Rights Commission has asked us to do, is ... are we in
agreement that our police force doesn't ask, and can we come out publicly and make a
statement to that degree, and is that accurate, and that we don't enforce, although we
acknowledge that we're part of these ... part of a practice that does send fingerprints and
information on. I mean, that's... that's combing it out. That's ... I think what ... what the
Human Rights Commission is asking for.
Champion/ So, yeah, you're on a different side of the coin here. You're talking like a traffic stop
or a speeding ticket, some place where they're not going to be fingerprinted.
Bailey/ Right, I'm ... I'm, I guess I'm ... yes, I'm asking to what degree, I mean, we all know that
information goes to the federal government. I think everybody in this room understands
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that that is a practice. We're, um, we're in the Secure Communities Program, but... to
the degree that fingerprints aren't being sent, what is our practice regarding immigration
status locally with our law enforcement? Are we asking, are we investigating, are we,
um, enforcing, um, limiting ... are we detaining people for violation of immigration laws?
Champion/ I don't know. I doubt it, but I don't know.
Dickens/ That's a question you'd ask Sam.
Champion/ Uh -huh.
Bailey/ And here he is!
Champion/ Here he is! (several talking and laughing)
Hargadine/ First on the fingerprinting, we don't fingerprint anybody. We take them to jail, and
they finger print them, so if you come up with an ordinance that says don't fingerprint,
we don't do it anyway. Um, we arrest for the law violations that we have probable cause
or a warrant to arrest for. They're taken to jail, which is a County facility, and that's
where the fingerprinting occurs. Um, what was the second follow -up question? Um...
Bailey/ It's the don't enforce part of Minneapolis ordinance, limiting arrest and detentions for
violation of immigration laws. Are you involved, I mean, we aren't involved in that, are
we?
Hargadine/ I've never read the immigration code so ... and I doubt most local officers do either.
Um ... we enforce municipal ordinances, and ... and state, um ... we do participate on some
federal task force for ... for drug reasons, but by and large, uh, it's not impossible when
someone's taken to jail that they're already on the, uh, the immigration's radar...
Bailey/ Right.
Hargadine/ ...and they could find themselves being deported, but it's not as a result of anything
we've done.
Markus/ But it would be, I think, um, misleading and confusing to suggest that, um, our police
don't do those things but that the logical progression of what happens as part of an arrest
may lead exactly to those things that we indicate that we're not doing, so that's where I
think you get into the concern about, um, having an ordinance that may misrepresent
what the outcome might be, whether we're actually the ones physically that are
fingerprinting or submitting those fingerprints to a federal agency, which may result in,
uh, immigration status issues and questions, I would guess. Urn ... it seems to me that
that's a logical extension that started from us. So, again, in direct answer to your
question, while we may say that we're not doing those things, what we are doing is
leading to those things.
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Bailey/ So we can't ... okay. So, what I'm hearing then is we can't comb out what we do law
enforcement -wise locally that may or may not have an impact with Secure Communities
and immigration status? Whereas you might not be asking about immigration status, an
arrest could necessarily lead to that.
Hargadine/ That happens on a daily basis, where we're arresting somebody for either a local
ordinance or a state law violation.
Wright/ Yeah I think...
Wilburn/ It's in the processing once they move on...
Bailey/ So we're complicit but not necessarily the agent of
Hargadine/ I'm only aware of one case where that has occurred, and it was a fairly significant
assault.
Bailey/ Well, I guess what I'm saying is we participate in a ... in a bigger law enforcement net
...network, so even if the actions locally stop here, if they go into another system or are
in that network, it can involve... immigration status and ... and immigration records.
Hargadine/ Potentially, yes.
Wright/ That's where I have some ... some concern (both talking) go back and forth on this.
Champion/ Right.
Bailey/ Me too! But there seems that there's no way to comb it out, is what I'm hearing.
Wright/ I ... I ... on the one hand I think ... I want to do what we need to do, or what we are able to
do ... to make this as safe and welcoming a community for people as possible. I don't
want to put an ordinance in place that's basically...
Bailey/ Misleading?
Wright/ ...misleading and ... and has no real effect.
Bailey /That's what I was looking for ... to see if there's a place where ... where we do operate un-
networked, and it sounds like ... that's not the case. You...
Wright/ We could choose to not ask. We could have a policy that we don't ask about
immigration status, and...
Champion/ But we don't anyway.
Wright/ Most ... most of the time we don't anyway.
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Champion/ Right!
Wright/ Cause, you know, at a typical contact there is no arrest. But if there is an arrest, then it's
out of our hands.
Bailey/ Right.
Champion/ They don't ask anyway. They're just following through with Iowa City procedures.
Hayek/ You know, my thought is, you know, even if you could, to use your word comb ... comb
it out, you know, I ask the question for whom? And... and... and I think you could have
a... a written document that would, you know, have split the hairs and have the definitions
and carve out this, carve out that to ... to show, uh, that only where required are we, you
know, participating just by being part of the system, uh, with ... with the federal program,
etc., you know, that might be okay for, uh, the highly educated, the highly engaged, you
know, the people who are aware of and familiar with, uh, a document like that, but for
the ... the population that is intended to be served by this, which is, um, by definition,
newer to the community, has language barrier, um, may not be as engaged in ordinances
as the people around this table are, I mean ... the perception, uh, and ... and the false sense
of security really concerns me.
Champion/ It does me too. I think it's a...
Bailey/ I don't think it would get to the place ... place of establishing security is, I mean, I think
that that's the intent is to make it feel safe and secure, but...
Hayek/ Yeah.
Bailey/ ...it just doesn't, yeah.
Wright/ I mean, is there any situation where an officer would casually inquire about somebody's
immigration status?
Hargadine/ No. They may need to locate that person in a year from now, if they're a witness to
something.
Wright/ Uh -huh.
Hargadine/ How can I get ahold of ya? What's your ... what's your address?
Bailey/ Okay.
Hargadine/ It may be Central America. But, it's because we need to find them in a year. It's not
because we care what their immigration status is.
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Wright/ Well, and asking for an address isn't really the same thing as...
Hargadine/ It could be Ohio, I mean, we need to know how .... how to find you...
Champion/ Could be Coralville! (laughter) But I do think that...
Hargadine/ But we need to be able to find people throughout the course of our ... we spend more
time finding the good people than we do the bad sometimes! It's because... people move.
Champion/ Yeah, I ... I just have problems with the confusion of it.
Hayek/ All right. Well, why don't we roll through these and ... see where we end up. Uh, #2, uh,
has to do with clarifying types of identification required for City services. And as
Eleanor mentioned, she ... pulled out a section of that municipal ... or Minneapolis
ordinance, uh, regarding what we, as a policy here in the City, want or need to see or ask
for to show identification.
Mims/ Yeah, I have no problem with clarifying, you know, what is required for somebody to get
City services so that, and ... and if that means that we need to do a little more training with
City staff that they're asking the appropriate questions, um, you know, not necessarily
asking for a driver's license or whatever, then ... then fine, we should do that, but I think
to clarify what is actually needed so that people aren't being asked for things that aren't
required, um, I've got no problem with that.
Bailey/ I think it's a good idea.
Wilburn/ Absolutely!
Champion/ It's easy!
Wright/ That's a no- brainer!
Hayek/ Implementation, uh, concerns, if any? By staff? Okay.
Dilkes/ I ... I guess the only question would be if you have a preference as to what form
that ... that goes in, I mean, we can do that in the form of an administrative, uh, rule, uh,
and educate employees about that, but it seems the most logical place to do it.
Bailey/ Seems like what ... that's where it...
Hayek/ Okay. Okay then, let's move on to 43 which is to, uh, the recommendation to use the
resources of the Human Rights Commission to hold public forums.
Mims/ I'd say that's another no- brainer.
Champion/ Yeah!
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Mims/ I mean, let's use all the resources we have to ... educate and ... make people welcome and
let them know what resources are here and...
Markus/ It does go a little beyond that. I think the expectation is that this committee would be in
place for a couple years and um, that they would be advising, um, on different
recommendations that they saw fit, and I think, um, the staff, when we put this, uh, when
we had this discussion, um, we did caution that there's always fiscal impacts that could
result from those recommendations and you just have to keep that in mind going forward.
Dickens/ Any idea on costs on that?
Champion/ We don't...
Markus/ We don't because we ... we have no idea what could be recommended, but I think that
was always ... we're having this general discussion about everything nowadays, so...
Bailey/ But they regularly hold forums and maybe they could take a particular focus. For
example, given the budget... given their budget for those forums.
Hayek/ I do think ... some of these do have budget impacts as Tom was just mentioning,
and ... and I looked at the budget, urn ... last year's budget, I mean, the resources we
allocate to Human Rights Commission are upwards of $300,000 a year, all inclusive.
Um, and that's not something that other communities in Johnson County do, at least to
that level, um, and so ... we're just going to have to be careful with ... with, uh, with this,
as it relates to additional expenditures.
Bailey/ And I know that ... it hasn't necessarily been done before but there's no reason that a
Human Rights Commission or any of the commissions couldn't get a, for example, a co-
sponsor to help them provide ... you know, treats or whatever for a forum, I mean, we
don't have any policies about that, right? (several responding)
Champion/ And what their ideas ... the ideas they may come up with may not be, may not cost
anything. But I like the idea, so maybe we'll have to look at, but they'll have to bring it
to us so ... we'll have to make that budget decision at the time.
Dilkes/ If you look at #8, it's kind of a corollary to #3. I mean, it could be that #3 might flow out
of #8. Um, that's the standing immigrant review committee. Those are kind of (several
talking)
Hayek/ Yeah, why don't ... why don't we take (both talking) sure! (several responding)
Wright/ I was just trying to think ... this was ... looking at #8, um ... that was one of the
recommendations that I ... thought might be very useful... especially the part about, um...
having representatives on that subcommittee from the immigrant community.
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Hayek/ Yep. I guess I would want to do it within Human Rights, uh, as staff has recommend...
recommended, uh, but I think the way they've... they've suggested this would allow for
that outside (both talking) yeah, outsider... outside stakeholder involvement.
Wright/ Yeah. I think that would be (several talking) I think that's a ... actually a very good
suggestion.
Mims/ Well, and really to analyze if we really do need a new committee or a board, given that
we're looking at trying to maybe condense and eliminate some that we already have,
um ... can't we do ... why can't we do what we need to do within this, and if we can't then
justify it.
Wright/ Well, we have a two -year period for that to operate some, see how it goes.
Hayek/ Okay, so ... 2 and 8, or 3 and 8 tackled there. Okay, #4 ... increase access to City services
by immigrant communities, particularly those identified, uh, as most used in the recent
survey.
Helling/ That's one where we ... given time and ... and uh ... a lot of attention within the
organization, we probably could have come up with a lot more specific information about
our signage and ... and so forth, so we just tried to kind of give you a ... an overview, um...
I think if...if, you know, if that's something we're going to pursue, then we'll probably
have to do a more detailed inventory of all the kinds of things we're doing now, in order
to figure out what we need to, you know, do as a follow -up, um ... and then the other thing
that comes to mind as we were going through this was, um, you know, everything we talk
about here is multi - lingual is in Spanish, uh, what ... what other languages do we need to
pursue? Um ... you know, based on, you know, the reality of what our population is and
... and who we're serving in the community.
Hayek/ Right.
Helling/ So that would ... that would be a ... a fairly detailed and ... and involved, uh, um ... sort of
self, uh, inspection or take our own inventory as to what we're doing now and then come
up with..with other, um, follow -up things that we need to do.
Wilburn/ Isn't this one just a matter of scope, because uh ... am I wrong in that as a ... with some
of the federal funding that we receive, don't we have a certain obligation to allow for, uh,
meaningful access, uh, do municipalities as federal recipients have that obligation under
Civil Rights legislation? I ... I know school districts (both talking)
Dilkes/ ..I'd have to look at the particular...
Wilburn/ ...yeah school districts do...
Dilkes/ ...legislation. I don't...
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Wilburn/ I think it's (both talking)
Hayek/ ... a couple of departments that... Transit, Parks and Rec, that, you know ... probably have
heavy usage and uh, could maybe stand to beef up the communication.
Champion/ And we all know that Spanish is the second most used language in this country, and
we can least ... it's not hard to put some Spanish... signs up in Spanish. I mean, every
federal building has everything in Spanish. The airports do, the schools do ... it's pretty
(both talking)
Wilburn/ I want to note, again, it's ... it's kind of the degree and to the intent or the spirit of the
law, and in many things I've seen, it's based on who your ... not (mumbled) but who
your ... who your clientele, who your customer base is, in terms of...you know, how many
different languages that you try and have ... things available.
Bailey/ We might try to get our microenterprise, um, forms in Spanish. I know that that ... that's
come up in the past and that seems like a ... an audience that ... that has ... we've seen
applicants who have brought in translators.
Wilburn/ Right, well, and the, uh, and if I'm not mistaken, I think at least ... I think Housing still
uses the language (mumbled) because not everyone is going to be ... that fluent in a
certain language is going to be able to read documents, that type of thing, so...
Bailey/ Right. But I think it makes sense to look at who our clients are and what departments
and what languages makes sense.
Wright/ Yeah, we may see some other languages that hadn't necessarily been thought of
Bailey/ Right!
Mims/ Well, but I think in all those things we've, again, coming back to, you know, the physical
impact looking at, you know, how many different languages are we going to try and print,
you know, brochures in or anything like that, I mean, we have to be realistic. One of the
things, I had never heard of this language line before I was reading this, and I think,
um ... can somebody explain that to me? I mean I...
Wilburn/ What you do is you, whether you have... it's a service, and you call the service, so
whether you have someone walk in or you have someone call in, you, uh, you ... place
them on hold, call the service, the service has, whichever service center you go into, they
have blank number of people, fluent in whatever language, and then they, uh, contract
with their other ... they have other centers, or they subcontract with groups that, uh, have
translators, so within blank number of minutes, you get access to someone fluent in a
language, or if you don't know what language it is, they can help you try and sort out and
figure out the language of the person who's either calling in or the person that's in front
of you, and they also, uh, the language line is the largest carrier in the country, uh, after
the ... after the baby bells broke up, there was a service, the main one would offer and then
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some of the providers kind of picked up on their own to kind of franchise it, but
that's... that's what they...
Mims/ So all of our City departments and divisions have access to that? I had no idea! And I
would guess that (both talking) that the majority of the people in the community have no
idea that that's available.
Wilburn/ It's kind of expensive, but uh, I mean, it's a per minute call, but you try and ... you try
and educate your staff to help keep the contact, ones that the City would initiate, to help
keep them focused, and then, uh, another thing that you can ... that can be done is, if you
get someone who calls multiple times, then perhaps you can try and schedule an
appointment, as opposed to having multiple calls, and then either have a physical body
come in to translate or to ... you know, to get information if they seem to be asking
information in a certain area then you can try and gather resources to get them the
information.
Champion/ The Police Department has made a real effort to have a Spanish- speaking policeman,
haven't you? I mean, you've actually made a big effort to do that, and have some...
Hargadine/ we have several, correct, and are paying for Spanish lessons.
Champion/ Right, right! So, I mean, we're really doing well along that point, I think.
Mims/ (both talking) Do we have other City staff that are fluent in Spanish? I ... I say that
because I figure that's probably the most needed, I'm assuming... here?
Helling/ I can't tell you who they are, but yes, outside the Police Department we do have some,
um ... I ... I don't want to ... I don't want to guess but...
Wilburn/ I think to address one of your other points too, I think ... one of the things that you,
rather than trying to print information in all languages, you do (several talking) and you
just trying to do the best you can to make ... yeah.
Mims/ My assumption without facts, you know, absolute facts would be that Spanish would be
the one that we'd be looking at, and that might be it, I mean ... you know, do we really
have the numbers in other languages? That would really make that necessary.
Wilburn/ Well, we have... (mumbled) the City, but there are several, uh, African/French
speaking, uh, there's several urn ... Chinese, um, Tagalong, there's several present in the
community so...
Wright/ There are a number of immigrant communities probably Spanish is one that requires the
most translation but I don't know. That's why I made my comment — we may find that
there's some other languages that are more predominant than we think.
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Hayek/ Well, if we're in general support of this, why don't we have staff, you know, do that
look -see and come back to us with their thoughts. We in agreement on that? (several
responding) Number 5, issue an Iowa City City Council proclamation in support of
immigration justice. You see the staff response to that. What are your thoughts?
Wright/ Think a resolution carries a little more institutional weight, as staff has pointed out, and I
would be personally fine with that.
Bailey/ Uh -huh.
Hayek/ A resolution saying what?
Wright/ Well, we'd have to ... sculpt something relatively carefully (mumbled) discussing an
issue of immigrant rights, Iowa City's role.
Bailey/ Access to services.
Wright/ Yeah.
Bailey/ That would be good.
Champion/ Duplicating what we already have on our ordinances?
Wright/ Well this would be a ... just a resolution of support. (mumbled) this is ... we're setting a
standard for the City, this is what we hope to do. And this is why we're doing it.
Bailey/ It would bring some focus to some of the services that we have available. As you said,
many people in the community probably don't know what we are capable of doing, how
they can access services in ways that are more understandable to them.
Hayek/ I think it might help to look at the ... um ... August recommendation from the
Commission... or the September recommendation from the Commission on this issue
because it sets forth several things that the Commission would like us to include in such a
proclamation or resolution. I think some of them get us back to the point we were
struggling with on item #1 ... cause it talks about, um, you know, at the beginning sort of
affirming the value of living in a diverse community, etc., welcoming community, but
then it gets into a statement about, uh, recognizing that the federal government must
reform it's immigration policy, and then it goes on to proclaim opposition to Secure
Communities, the federal program. Those three things, as I read it, are ... are the ... are the,
uh, are contained in that recommendation.
Wright / And there's... certainly no shortage of...of data from communities across the country,
indicating that (mumbled) with the way Secure Communities ends up being used. And
I ... it was ... it is not used as billed when it was initiated.
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Mims/ I think it's that line of.. you know, indicating that we are you know a welcoming
community and you know want ... want to be welcoming, want to be safe, and at the same
time, you certainly have those out there who, um, will be very vocal and very strong
views in terms of illegal immigration. And, you know, not supporting doing anything for
people who are here illegally. And I ... I think in something from the comm .... something
from the City, I think it's important that anything that we do ... my personal position is
that we're not putting something out there that says that we are welcoming and
encouraging illegal immigration. I think that's a real, um, and so you know you list,
Matt, some of those things that they're, you know, a welcoming community, fine. You
talked before at one of our previous meetings about, you know, the whole issue of
weighing in on federal, um, law and then, you know, where... where's the line that
we ... that we're dealing with or weighing in on federal issues and ... and not. Um, I think
crafting something like that, um, I think probably can be done. I think it needs to be done
very, very carefully.
Champion/ I think it's up to us as individuals to let our, um, federal representatives know what
our personal opinions are. I don't think as a group we probably... never come to any
consensus anyway, but... it certainly, I mean, I think we do need to look at our
immigration laws, but ... I don't think we should have a ... unless we can do something
very simple and straightforward. If that has value, I'm totally willing to do that.
Wilburn/ I think that's important, and I have reflected this in my comments before that uh, that
any resolution would ... while it can make certain, um, broad comments that they're
specifics as to what we are doing in this community. I gave the example before, uh, the
two examples. One where I supported a resolution, other where I didn't support a
resolution but individual Council Member action was the folks who wanted a resolution
against the war, and we, uh, it wasn't, uh, whether it impacts is what the city controls.
City doesn't control the Iowa National Guard. Certainly impact because members are
part of the Guard, as opposed to, uh, the resolution we passed against racial profiling.
Uh, we control the police, uh ... through the (several talking) and we were also
undertaking a study on our own department about racial profiling. So I think it's
important that that, and again, it's not ... you know, and I ... it's not that ... um, the issue
isn't important. It's just that on any given night we've got 30, uh, 15 to 30 items, all that
are equally as important to the people that have asked them to be on the agenda, and then
are we going ... how many national issues are we going to load up, uh, on that night's
agenda that, you know, yes we'll fill the Chambers and there'll be speeches and passion,
and then when ... well, just like we had the other night. Everybody walks out of the room;
we still have 20 items to go, after you know six hours of debate. It's just a practical
matter. Otherwise if the Mayor wants to issue a proclamation, it's up to the Mayor! And
then (mumbled) Council Members if they want to ... write a letter, contact ... use their
contacts with, uh, state or federal officials ... to do so on their own.
Hayek/ Well, I ... I think the ... I think what you're speaking to and I ... I'm on the same page, is if
we do something it's going to be of a nature that really wouldn't address the issues of
"immigrant justice" ...
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Champion/ No!
Hayek/ ...as outlined here, and I'm still opening ... open to doing something broad like you've
mentioned, uh, you know, with the welcoming inclusive, that sort of thing, but ... it
doesn't address what's in this recommendation so I think it begs the question should, you
know, should we do that.
Wright/ I think it's perfectly proper for a city to ... address issues such as immigrant justice and
the ways that ... that the Commission has outlined. I ... I don't think we necessarily have
to pick only pragmatic issues that don't go beyond our city limits.
Champion/ Well, so how would you word such a thing? Tell me how you would word it.
Wright/ I can't do that on the fly, Connie (laughter)
Champion/ That's okay.
Wright/ That's something that's going to take a lot of wordsmithing and a lot of consulting.
Wilburn/ Well here's... here's the example that ... here's another practical example. Um ... for...
uh, the two years I served as Mayor, I would get a monthly postcard, uh, at home, in the
mail, with pictures of aborted fetuses on it. And early on in Council we would
have ... there were people that would come asking for that, uh, that pro -life stance
(mumbled) people in the community, City doesn't, you know, it's a passionate issue. We
can have elaborate debate, but ... in the end, you know, and that's... that's just another
example, again, it's not that the issue isn't important, but uh, um ... well, enough said!
And you can, you know, abortion, death penalty, you can go on down the list that we can
load up the, uh, agenda with. It's more of a practical matter.
Hayek/ Well, I'd rather see us focus on the tangible things we can accomplish, uh, whether it's
communication, outreach, translation...
Champion/ Right.
Mims/ I would agree.
Hayek/ Well, looks like we're a little split on this. Do we need to sort of see a show of hands...
on that? There's... you're... you're in support of going beyond that. Who else ... is? Are
you?
Bailey/ I think we could craft a resolution that balances the issues, I mean, I think that this is a
city that takes stances, not necessarily on federal issues, but on how we treat our people,
and I think that there's something that we can be ... said. The question I think that you've
raised, and I think that it's an important one is, um, does it meet the intent of what the
Human Rights Commission was asking for, and so if it doesn't, should we proceed, and
maybe that's a conversation that should be had. Because I'm looking, I mean ... I tend to
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want to focus on things that we can do within our community, but I think there are plenty
of statements that we can, um, make that talk about what we can do in our community.
Champion/ Is that statement already made in our Human Rights ordinance?
Bailey/ I don't know.
Champion/ I would think it is. (several talking)
Wright/ Well, I think sometimes you need to emphasize what you already have in one way or
another.
Bailey/ Well, I mean ... I mean, to go back to Susan's point, not to, you know, point that out but
the whole language line, or something that spotlights as you said. Sometimes you really
need to focus on it, spotlights what we're doing... wouldn't be a bad thing. Um ... but...
having a conversation with the Commission and seeing if a resolution of this nature gets
the point and ... you know, I think that that's a conversation that needs ... that you should
have (mumbled).
Hayek/ Well, and we can have that going forward, and I was just looking at #3, which we've
already okayed, and that, you know, talks about using the Commission to hold some
public forums, on among other things becoming a welcoming community.
Bailey/ Uh -huh.
Hayek/ So maybe we're accomplishing that through some of these other points.
Bailey/ Perhaps.
Hayek/ Well, why don't we ... let's move on (laughter)
Wright/ There's no consensus (several talking)
Hayek/ Yeah. Six is, uh, implement a best practice model for inclusive communities. And
there's reference to two different programs... that the Commission, uh, suggested we look
at.
Bailey/ Must be something that this, um ... (several talking) looks at, so look at best practices and
what portions of those we want to implement?
Mims/ I think that's a great idea (several responding)
Bailey/ Make some specific recommendations that we act on, or the Council acts on, in a more
timely manner than perhaps we've taken up these to ... to work toward.
Mims/ I think that's a great idea.
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Bailey/ An approach, I mean, this was helpful but I'm still not ... familiar with these.
Hayek/ That'd be fine. I mean, I ... based on what staff indicates, the City of Seattle program
really goes beyond the scope of what this issues entails.
Mims/ Right. It's totally different, if you will, a totally different issue and it's the institutional
racism within the municipality, not the, you know, the welcoming of the community and
how the community members (both talking)
Bailey/ ...but that's a purview of the Human Rights Commission and if that subcommittee saw
that there was a need...
Mims / Right, agreed!
Hayek/ Okay, so...
Dilkes/ I'm sorry, can you all speak up just a little bit. (laughter) I know everybody's .... but I'm
having a heck of a time hearing! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay, so do I understand the consensus to be that there is interest in, uh, having the ... the
standing subcommittee, uh, look at this, among other issues, as ... something to potentially
implement? (several responding) Okay. Okay, #7, increase law enforcement's outreach
and effectiveness ... within immigrant communities.
Champion/ Well, nobody could be against that. (laughter) I don't know how you'd get it done,
but um...
Wright/ Reading the staff s report, I was actually impressed with how much...
Champion/ Right...
Wright/ ...is doing that I certainly wasn't aware of.
Mims/ Lots of training.
Hayek/ Anyone else in Iowa pay for Spanish for officers?
Hargadine/ I'm not aware of it.
Bailey/ I thought Des Moines did.
Hargadine/ Couldn't tell ya!
Champion/ You know, we're already doing a lot, but I think what this recommendation is is I
don't know how you ... I mean, they do lots of things, but maybe this group ... if there's a
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real need for the police to talk to one of these groups, and I'm sure that could be
arranged, if the Human Rights Commission wanted to get a group together for one of the
policemen to meet with, I mean, I don't think the police are against doing those kind of
things. I don't see where they're going to have time to initiate it, but if somebody else
initiated it, I'm sure they'd do it.
Mims/ I think that's a good point, Connie. If...if we have this (both talking) subcommittee, you
know, if we had the subcommittee and they can start identifying some things that ... that
they think we need to do or expand upon and maybe, uh, organize some things through
Human Rights Committee, or the subcommittee, then you know ... maybe they can either
do or develop a ... a system for some of that outreach where, like you say, it's ... the police
are busy and more than busy with what they're doing now, but can, you know, do kind of
the organizing part of (both talking)
Champion/ They never turn down one of those invitations, that I know of (both talking)
Mims/ ... send an officer to such and such an event at such and such a place and time, you know,
to help increase those communications and interactions (both talking)
Champion/ And I don't think people are aware of that either, that the police ... I don't know of
any organization (mumbled) and they haven't shown up. There might be some I don't
know about but it's pretty common that they're in a public setting dealing with the public,
besides stopping me for a traffic ticket.
Bailey/ I have a question, Sam.
Hargadine/ Ma'am.
Bailey/ Um, with the data collection, um ... it seems like ... it seems like the data collection... the
data collection information was interesting to me, how we do this, um, because Hispanic
is not a race but an ethnic group, so are we able to track accurately... am I, are you follow
what I'm...
Hargadine/ I am, and I was ... I was part of Missouri's, um, initiative cause the whole state went
to tracking race -based stops.
Bailey/ Okay.
Hargadine/ And one of the ... they intentionally, um ... prohibited police officers from asking what
race are you. If you didn't have a racial issue before, you have got one now when you
typically ask that. Well, why are you asking me that? Well, why did you pull me over
and then why are you asking me that now, so it's based on the observation of the officer.
Bailey/ Okay.
Hargadine/ Um ... and it does limit the statis ... the statistical analysis.
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Bailey/ Got it. Are there any other models?
Hargadine/ Other than... are you talking about on the street, at the time of the stop?
Bailey/ Yeah, I think. Because that's where we're collecting data and ... and looking at race-
based...
Hargadine /It's not ... you know it's not, uh, when you run someone's driver's license it's not
there either. So ... you're ... you're putting race into a situation that, uh, wasn't an issue
before. That's the risk (both talking)
Bailey/ One must assume that it wasn't an issue. The question is, is it an issue, and we can't
track it because it's not an issue, I mean, it becomes circular, I mean, do you see what I'm
saying...
Hargadine/ Well, once we've arrested somebody, then certainly we do track that but on a ... on an
average stop, if it's not obvious, if it's not obvious if you're a man or a woman, then we
don't go further.
Hayek/ Well, the ... again, I'm looking at the Commission's request under this item #7, and it's
not just outreach. It's ... it's specific education about these federal programs. Um...
Wright/ Well, I think if there is a request for some dialogue on these issues with a particular
group I'm guessing the department would be responsive.
Hargadine/ And we get that in a number of...from other communities. We get it from Arab
community, we get it from the Jewish community, um, I get invited to a Ramadan dinner
once a year, so we get those requests, and we deal with it (mumbled) you know,
Halloween, we get ... can you bring a police car by, so those happen all the time.
Wright/ So if somebody wanted ... if a group wanted to engage and say would you explain the
way Secure Communities works ... that'd be something you could do.
Hargadine/ Uh -huh.
Hayek/ So we could ... support as a general matter outreach and responsiveness to...
Champion/ And I think we already have a lot of it going on.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Champion/ Again, people don't really know all the things we do, as a city.
Bailey/ (mumbled)
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Wright/ (mumbled) light bulb just went off there.
Bailey/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay, are we on the same page in terms of just generally encouraging continued outreach
and responsiveness to (several responding) Okay. Um, 8, we've already dealt with, and
really 9 dovetails (both talking)
Champion/ Right!
Hayek/ We ... let me just look at this; hold on. Yeah (mumbled) #9.
Champion/ I'm too sleepy!
Mims/ You know, I would just ... you know, say as the, either Human Rights Commission or
other staff or whatever are looking at some of these outreach things and we're talking
about providing any kinds of signage or documents in other languages to really make an
effort to use the University as a resource.
Bailey/ I agree.
Mims/ You know, we've got foreign language classes there and might have professors looking
for projects for students or even graduate students and, you know, maybe they can take
something like this on as a project and do the translation and generate the document for
us, you know, we have to do printing but maybe we could get all that translation done
free of charge and we do the printing. I don't know if we've done anything like that,
Dale.
Helling/ I can't tell you if it's been free of charge but we have used the University in the past for
multi - lingual brochures and that type of thing, flyers.
Mims/ Student project.
Bailey/ Well, there's a lot of international students, I mean, when we translated a document into
Korean to take to the UNESCO (mumbled) student ... free of charge.
Mims /Marian's up there frowning at you cause she can't hear you.
Bailey/ I'm sorry!
Champion/ We're not talking loud enough.
Karr/ You're dying on me! (laughter)
Bailey/ Yes I am! (several talking and laughing) I'm afraid I am.
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Hayek/ Okay. Uh...
Champion/ That's a good start on those things, it is.
Mims/ I think it is too!
Hayek/ Okay.
Mims / And I think as Dale said, you know, this committee is there; it's been there for a long
time; it will continue to be there; you'll continue to give us advice and...
Hayek/ Yep.
Mims/ ...make adjustments and improvements as time goes by.
Hayek/ Yep. All right. Well I want to thank the commission, the CRC, staff, and anyone else
who had a part in this process. It's, uh, taken a while but a lot of people worked very
hard on this issue and uh, even though my back is to you cause I'm holding this meeting,
I ... I thank you on behalf of the City.
Champion/ Oh we might not be done yet either (several talking)
Hayek/ ...we're not, no. Okay. Let's keep moving here. Info packets from November 3, 10,
and 17.
Info Packets:
11/3
Hayek/ Start with the November 3rd, is there anything on that?
Mims/ I know in the work session this doesn't get out real publicly but I would just like to really
thank Linda Schreiber for all the work she has been doing downtown on the planters and
all the (both talking)
Bailey/ ... Council time tomorrow.
Mims/ You know, I'll try to remember to do that.
Bailey/ Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Mims/ She's just done a tremendous amount of work.
Hayek/ And I think she put this in a letter to staff or somebody, but ... but she has noticed a huge
difference downtown in the ped mall in terms of trampling of plants.
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Champion/ Oh, I know it!
Bailey/ Well if they're there I think, I mean, if it looks nice I think people take notice and are a
little bit more careful. I think. (several talking)
Champion/ No I think it's true.
Mims/ I just thought her conversation, her ongoing conversations with certain bar managers was
very interesting too, if I'm trying to get them to have some impact on behaviors.
Hayek/ Okay. Anything else on, uh, that? Notice the KXIC radio show, so if you've...
Champion/ I'm on November 30th. The date was changed.
Karr/ We will be talking about the December schedule. I don't know if you want to do it now or
if you want t wait til the end, but we need December now too. That's the November one.
Hayek/ Let's just talk about it now.
Karr/ Okay. December 7th, 14th, 21st, 28tH, and then January 3rd
Wilburn/ I'll take the 28th. (laughter)
Karr/ Ross'll take the (several talking)
Wilburn/ The 28th
Karr/ 281h.
Dickens/ I'll do the 14tH
Karr/ Terry, thank you.
Hayek/ Wait, what are the other dates, uh... (several talking)
Karr/ 7, 21, and January 3rd
Mims/ I'll take the 7tH
Karr/ 7th. Thank you, Susan.
Champion/ I will not take the 21st
Wright/ I should be able to do the 21st
Karr/ Okay.
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Champion/ But I could do the 3`d, unless ... you can probably do the 3`d, I mean, January 3`d
Unless you're...
Hayek/ Uh ... I'll be where?
Champion/ At a bowl game. (laughter)
Hayek/ Haven't been to one yet! (laughter) Don't see that change anytime...
Karr/ Why don't I mock up this and distribute it in the packet and ... we can always move it
around but it'll give us a target.
Hayek/ Put me down for the 3`d
Karr/ So Connie's not the 3`d, you are?
Champion/ Just call me (several talking)
Hayek/ Last one I did I was sitting in Sigourney on a cell phone...
Champion/ Well it worked, didn't it?
Hayek/ Yeah, I had to go to a court hearing.
Champion/Oh, gosh!
Hayek/ But I wasn't driving! Okay, November IOtn. And we'll take up legislative priorities little
down the list here.
Champion/ Are we going to do that today?
Bailey/ It's on the list! (several responding)
Champion/ I know it's on the list.
Dickens/ We'll get you out of here by 9:00 ... maybe! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay, uh, and then, uh, November, excuse me, 17tH
Mims/ I think we did all this one.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Champion/ Well we need to talk about the joint meeting on November 30th
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Joint Meeting Agenda Items:
Bailey/ Right, and that's a...
Dickens/ That's at Ross's house!
Karr/ That's on the agenda for tonight too, but you can do it now (several talking)
Hayek/ ...house that is! (laughter)
Wright/ I will not be at that meeting.
Hayek/ I don't think I can be at that meeting. I have a deposition, so ... I think that's a problem.
Champion/ I think I'm going to be buried.
Bailey/ Well, I don't think we should ... can't we reschedule?
Wright/ The joint meeting?
Bailey/ I'm sorry! (laughter) If the Mayor can't be there, can't we reschedule?
Karr/ Well, it's a joint meeting of several municipalities. If there is any interest ... or if we know
that we don't have a number of people who can attend, I certainly can respond right away
tomorrow, but the other entities may opt to be there.
Hayek/ I say we stick with it, and send whoever we can, um...
Champion/ All right.
Mims/ This is joint meetings, it's not MPO.
Karr/ Right.
Bailey/ Sure.
Mims/ So it's not a voting thing.
Bailey/ Right, but...
Wright/ I'm sorry, as effective as those meetings usually are, I don't feel too bad about it.
Karr/ So Mike and Matt may not be able to attend.
Hayek/ Correct.
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Karr/ Okay. Is there anyone else who may not be able to attend?
Champion/ Well, I'd like not to go (laughter) but I do want ... I do ... I do want to (several talking)
well I ... I may be forced because I want to ask a very specific question.
Karr/ Then would you like to talk about agenda items at this time?
Champion/ Yes, that'd be fine. I'm going to ask my usual question — do they have any idea how
physical plant discrepancies are affecting our neighborhoods? I'd like to get an answer
from them some time.
Karr/ Physical plant discrepancies?
Champion/ Uh -huh. The quality of buildings (several talking) yes, school ... the School District.
Bailey/ Well I'm a little ... I would like to dovetail on that because reading the minutes of the
Historic Preservation Commission regarding, uh, what was it called? Um ... the School
District's unwillingness to sign on for the mitigation, taking down Sabin and not doing
anything with Mann. Did you read those minutes? I'm sure I'm not (several talking)
Champion/ But I mean I think it's become an issue. I think they're controlling development with
their new buildings, and I think they're scaring people in the older neighborhoods cause
they're not maintaining the buildings, and when they gave up that land on the east side of
town last year, I've never forgiven them. That land was given to them, and they've not
bothered to build a high - quality, what do you call it, state of the art elementary school on
the east side of Iowa City where if they had built it that are would have developed just
like that cause that's how it is. That they're not catering to, uh, poor children. They're
only catering to rich children, and I'm really mad at them. So can you put that all down
in a question?
Karr/ That'd be one agenda item! (laughter)
Wright/ That's going to be a hell of an agenda item.
Bailey/ This is from the October 13th, um (several talking and laughing) 2011 (several talking)
and it's the FEMA MOA, and it talks about this very thing, about Horace Mann and
Longfellow and um, public ... the FEMA, to seek comment on the potential demolition of
Sabin School and the fraternity building at 109 River Street.
Champion/ Oh, right, right, right.
Bailey/ ...federal funds are used, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, and the School... School District did
not want to sign on to this agreement and it was (both talking)
Champion/ ...the University owns these buildings, and you can't control it.
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Bailey/ No. The ... the Historic Preservation Commission did not know why the District didn't
want to be part of this, and so I think it's linked a little bit to what you're saying about
facilities.
Champion/ Yeah, I'm really...
Hayek/ Let's just ask the School District for an update on its facility plans (both talking)
Champion/ I want a little more than an update; I want an answer from them (both talking). I've
already gone to a School Board meeting (several talking)
Hayek/ ...we need to give her some direction...
Karr/ How about an update, physical plant deficiencies /update, and that'll leave the door open
for you.
Champion/ I thank you!
Bailey/ I'm going to ask about this FEMA thing. (several talking)
Karr/ I can put a sub -note under that, um, if you...
Dilkes/ Connie, all we need is something that'll give you the opportunity to talk and you got it
with that so...
Hayek/ Exactly.
Wright/ You guys can roll through the door on a steamroller.
Champion/ I'll be decent! (several talking)
Hayek/ All right, we're starting to spin out of control here. Let's get this wrapped up.
Karr/ There was also a request that came late this afternoon, um, from the County asking us if we
were going to put an Animal Shelter update on the agenda? (unable to hear person away
from mic)
Markus/ ...meeting planned for January...
Bailey/ You're not miked, Tom, cause I can't hear you! (laughter)
Markus/ We have a, we planned it for January where everybody will be invited. I already told
Andy that, so ... the answer is no.
Hayek/ Okay. What else ... for the joint meeting? Was ... is there anything else we would like to
add to the joint meeting by way of an agenda?
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Karr/ Or anybody else whose schedule doesn't allow them to go so I could report that, as well.
Okay.
Hayek/ Okay.
Bailey/ It's at 4:00?
Karr/ Yes.
Dickens/ 4:00.
Graham/ I have class so I won't be able to attend the joint meeting.
Karr/ Thanks.
Wilburn/ United Way meeting is at 5:30 that night.
Bailey/ Is that the ... what is it...
Karr/ Thank you reception.
Wilburn/ The thank you reception for the leaders in giving United Way at the Kinnick Press Box
starts at 5:30.
Bailey/ I have (mumbled) that night. More important.
Hayek/ Okay. Anything else on, uh, the November 17th packet? Okay. Council time.
Council Time:
Hayek/ Welcome back from uh South Korea.
Bailey/ I will have some gifts from the Mayor of Seoul to the Mayor of Iowa City tomorrow at
Council time.
Champion/ That's great!
Dickens/ Just a quick update. I went to the, uh, Johnson County Paratransit Advisory Board
meeting and just a quick update, they're planning to put cameras on all of their vehicles,
23 vehicles. That's a 50/50 grant match and uh, the City of Iowa City, Coralville, and
ECCOG are all helping to pay for the other 50 %, so it ... it's mainly for liability more than
anything so ... that was the main thing that came out of that meeting.
Wright/ Actually I should probably report too, just for Council information that the JECC
Executive Board is meeting on Monday for a budget work session, Monday the 28tH,
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November 21, 2011 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 73
urn ... the budget as submitted was not one that the Board had reviewed so we're ... we've
been going through that, um, and it is not a 46% increase in the budget as you may have
seen. It was actually a 23% and ... the way some of the items had actually shaken down,
it's probably not even that big of an increase. There was some money that wasn't
accounted for in that budget so ... the JECC Board is working very closely with that and I
think the budget ... will be presented well in line with spending priorities.
Bailey/ And Tom attended that meeting on my behalf, so ... I mean, we were covered, but I think
that that was very, very helpful for the Board.
Hayek/ Thanks for doing that. Any other Council items? Okay. Summary of pending work
session issues.
Pending Work Session Issues (02):
Hayek/ (several talking) Yeah! (mumbled) the City if we get to the end of this list and there's
nothing (several talking and laughing)
Wright/ Seeing as there's new stuff waiting to get on it!
Hayek/ Okay. Nothing on that though, presently. Let's just keep moving. I don't think anybody
has any steam for any of this, um ... 2011 legislative priorities.
2011 Legislative Priorities:
Wright/ I think we should (noise on mic)
Helling/ To relieve some consternation I detected here, a few minutes ago, uh, the item ... the
purpose wasn't for you to call out what your priorities are tonight. The only thing we
wanted you to do is concur if you do, that you want to talk about that so we can put it on
your work session (several talking) on the 6th. (several responding) And ... whatever you
do then will result in, I assume, in a ... if you want a resolution like you have in the past, it
could be put in with that, and then I don't know if Marian has anything about (several
talking).
Dickens/ Dale, you just wanted to push that to December, didn't you? (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay, joint meeting agenda, we've talked about that. Uh, meeting schedule.
Meeting Schedule:
Karr/ I will be ... I'm putting a draft schedule together for budget sessions in January and
February. My plan is to hand deliver it to you tomorrow night as part of your packet,
because I know there's a number of you with the Thanksgiving holiday that wondered
when the packet would be out, so if there are any times in January ... I know Terry has,
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November 21, 2011 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 74
uh, a scheduled absence. If there are any times in January that won't work for you,
please let me know and it'll just save the discussion we'll have next Tuesday.
Hayek/ Okay. Upcoming events.
Invitations/Upcoming Events:
Bailey/ Does the City plan to have a table at the CVB Annual meeting?
Karr/ Yes, I had that, and if you'll let me know who's attending we can fill it. We have a
reservation for a table.
Mims /When is that again?
Bailey/ I think it's the 1St
Karr /It's at the Sheraton downtown, 11:30 to 1:30 on the 1st
Hayek/ And I will not be there. I've already talked to the CVB and to Tom about that,
urn ... Tom's going to be there, he's presenting.
Bailey/ ...Ottumwa, but I would like to attend.
Karr/ Okay.
Mims/ I need to double -check my schedule.
Karr/ Please let me know so we have...
Mims /The 30th or the lst?
Karr/ The 1st, December 1, at the Sheraton, 11:30 to 1:30.
Hayek/ Okay, uh, anything else? Thank you for slogging through a very long agenda. See you
tomorrow night!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 21, 2011.