HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-01-22 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih,Teague,Taylor,Thomas, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Frain, Monroe,Andrew, Mikes, Fruehling, Havel, Sovers,Hightshoe,
Nagle-Gamm, Ralston, Bockenstedt, Fleagle, Greer, Knoche, Sitzman
Others Present: Stewart,Wu(UISG)
FY 2020 Budget Discussion:
Throgmorton/Geoff, did you have a list of specific decisions you are aware that we need to
make or are you...waiting us for just toss out specific ideas?
Fruin/Well we do have one memo in the....in the, uh,packet, and that, uh, is in response to your
request for information on shifting, uh, temporary or hourly staff to a permanent,uh,
status. So there's some cost information, uh, that you have there, and we can help talk,
uh, talk through if you want. Um, the other remaining topic that I'm aware of would be
the relocation of the Sanxay-Gilmore House. So, Mayor, if you wanna fill folks in on the
meeting we had with the University. I'm not sure we're ready to make a decision on that,
but we could at least give an update, um, on that.
Throgmorton/ Sure.
Fruin/And anything else....again, the Council wants to....wants to discuss related to the budget.
Throgmorton/ Okay. I wonder if we could begin with Ashley providing a brief summary of the
information that's in the memo (both talking)provided us.
Monroe/Of course! So, um, Council requested a....a exploration of what it would look like if
we moved, um, some or all....part-time, hourly employees to,uh, a permanent position or
a permanent status position. Um, we ran a report and ended up,uh, scanning through 355
employees, um, so they hold a variety of positions,um, a greater number of positions
than 355. Those were individuals. Um, of those,we selected 38, uh, based on the fact
that they work approximately 20 hours per week on average. Um, there are no AFSCME
employees, union employees, that currently work, uh, less than 20 hours a week. So, um,
that was our gauge for how to determine what types of positions would be considered.
Um,these also hold, uh....statuses as positions, uh,responsibilities that are held year-
round. So, um, they're not seasonal employees that would be hired into,uh, work on
recreation programs or park maintenance, uh, seasonally,um,working with Public Works
on particular projects over the construction season. These are people who work in our...
in our facilities and do....do jobs,uh, year-round generally. So,they came from different
departments. Uh, we have Recreation, Government Buildings, Park Maintenance.
There's a couple in, uh, Public Works and Water and Engineering. We have several at the
Senior Center, uh, Communications has three positions, and then there are,uh, quite a
few at the Library as well. Um, a couple of....Housing Authority, I missed that as well.
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But, urn,we took a look at a cost analysis, so we started at the very, very minimum
amount that an employee coming into the AFSCME union would receive as...as base pay.
Um, so a Grade 1, Step 1 pay to....to do our cost analysis. We added insurance and, uh,
cost that we take out and pay for FICA and IPERS pension. Uh, and then we,uh, we also
incorporated health insurance and dental insurance, to see what that cost,uh, to the City
would be. For all 38. So....depending on....you know, whether this would be
considered, uh, fh ther....we could.....we would need some direction as to...to what,
which of those positions end up in this status change. Um, we would have to coordinate
with the union as well, urn, for whatever they consider to be a position that they would
want to add to their union. So...um, I have a couple of other pieces of data,just....I'm
ready if you have questions.
Throgmorton/Okay, what, uh, what do our Council Members have to say?
Thomas/Well (several talking) one question I would have is....we.....we do have permanent
part-time employees, correct?
Monroe/Yes.
Thomas/What distinguishes this group of 38 positions from....those other positions? Is there...I
would think there must be some criteria as to why they would not be considered
permanent part-time.
Monroe/Well they hold, um, these particular positions were determined, uh....just to not be part
of the bargaining unit, based on their....their responsibilities and...and tasks that they
perform. There's a greater flexibility in what these positions do. Um, operationally it
gives flexibility to, um, our departments to determine, you know, how many hours they
need of....a pool manager; how many hours they need a, um, recreation coordinator; urn,
how many hours we need...you know, various...various other services. Urn,reception
at...at their desks and things. So, um, it's a determination of who's....what the union
considers a....a position in their....in their group.
Fruin/Okay, if I could jump in. There's....I don't know that there's a clean line that we can give
you on where that is. Partly it's hours worked. So lot of the permanent part-time that are
incorporated into the union or even non-union, they're gonna be 20 or more, whereas a lot
of hourly positions are....are less than 20. Um, we pick the ones that work at the higher
range for those hourly ones, based on what we thought you were lookin' at. We make
determinations on,um.....well, I'll give you an example. So if you....a few years ago, in
our budget, we converted, um, a Planning position to, it was our Historic Preservation
Planner, from temporary, uh, to permanent, and we did that, urn, because when you do
that you start to offer benefits to those employees and....and hopefully you don't see as
much turnover in those positions. So a lot of the positions here, we expect turnover,uh,
throughout the,uh,well I guess more frequent turnover, um, in those positions and when
we have those permanent positions, we hope to hold on to those employees a little big
longer. So that's one of the rationale but I don't know if there's a clean distinction, if
that's what you're looking for. It's kind of case-by-case determination.
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Monroe/I'll....I'11 further clarify, urn, when you look at the list of positions that were identified,
there are more than 38 people who hold some of these positions. So for example the
Customer Service Representative at Recreation,there are 25 people that do that job, and
only eight of those positions were determined as....as working in that threshold, where
we would consider them to be a permanent level position. There may still be a need for
(mumbled) someone to fill in for that position, if there's an absence or, uh,just to provide
greater flexibility in...in what those tasks are. The complication arises when you have the
same person doing a very similar job,but having a permanent versus a....a.....a
temporary, hourly status, urn, it....it's complicated.
Throgmorton/Maz, I know you want to say something.
Salih/I wanna say a lot thing on this, not only something. First I (unable to understand) City
currently employees 38 people to work an average of 20 hour per week. An average
means maybe more,maybe less than 20,which is...and this 20 hours average, it will be
consistent year-round the schedule,but we are not providing employer-paid health
insurance or dental insurance of this employee. I don't think this good practice by the
City. No. We shouldn't do that, from the first place, and why do we have so many
employees in this situation? This employment, the status is just a way from paying the
employee's health insurance and dental insurance. You know, you just talking about the
Recreation Center and you saying that there is many positions....I'm really looking
forward even especially on the Recreation Center, for the customer service on the front
desk, we have many employees work there, and I understand most of them are student,
but uh, I know many people who work there. They still like seeking more hours and
because,uh, some of them are not students and they would like to have more hours to
stay there, and something like the Rec Center really we need employment...employees
there who really gonna be responsible, dealing with a lot of people. If we have...we keep
changing the person who sitting there and I don't know, there is some situation happen
there and the staff have to call the police for the people who use the Recreation Center,
for no reason because maybe she's young and she cannot even, uh,have a lot like good
training. That's why I really looking forward to have like permanent positions for those
people, so they can be trained well and pay well and have health insurance, most likely
they will stay, and all of....what the different between somebody work really as, uh, you
know....(unable to understand) is they work there more than 20 hours, or 20 and above,
and they come every day to the work, and they do their job like the right way, and they
don't get insurance, and there is another person who is part-time, permanent, work 20
hours also and get insurance! I don't think this is really good practice by the City.
(unable to understand) actual cost may vary cause, you know,but we need a (unable to
understand)before we can make a decision, and I really encourage AFSCME to come
here and speak on that,because I remember when we were talking about increasing
the....the minimum wage for the employee here (unable to understand) employee,
AFSCME, one of the AFSCME representatives said....also I would like to see more
permanent job. (unable to understand) and I went yesterday to the video to make sure I
remember right, that why I really encourage them to come over and as I said again, that's
my last thing, whenever we give people insurance, most likely they gonna stay on the
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job, and that's why the City should (unable to understand) we have to set example(unable
to understand) City government here, how can we just go around the law and give some
people like 20....20 hours or more and (unable to understand) them, you know,the health
insurance. That's really I think like we sneaking around the law. Thank you.
Taylor/Do we have any information on the tenure of these....these staff that we're talking about,
cause....and did they leave for a reason, cause I know for example the young man at the
front desk here has just left because he finished school, and that was his whole intention
of working that job, uh, and then he got a permanent job elsewhere because he finished
school. So it worked for him, so is there any information on that or.....
Fruin/We don't have tenure information now. Um....I did want to point out, um,real quick that
you do have a statement from AFSCME in your late handouts. The representative
couldn't make it tonight, I think due to the weather complications, but if you look in your
late handouts, you can get a sense of what AFSCME's position is on this. (both talking)
I'm sorry, I know(both talking)
Taylor/ ...my comment on that would be that I...I think before we made any decision on this that
I....I think that you as staff and someone from Council, maybe two, should sit down and
meet with AFSCME and...and they should take a serious look at it and perhaps there are
some categories that they feel is....I spoke with the AFSCME person also, and uh, I know
they have some concerns as far as how that's gonna affect some....some employees that
maybe, uh, they'll lose their jobs because of that, if you put more in permanent status or
they have a different supervisor or something of that nature, so (both talking)
Throgmorton/...we received points to that as a significant challenge(both talking)
Taylor/ ...we did get a letter from them, in the late handout, which I appreciate their comments,
so I think we really do need to include them in the discussion.
Throgmorton/Ashley, could you remind us of what the estimated cost would be for converting
38 employees?
Monroe/ So...if we were to enter every single one of these positions into that first step, which we
would anticipate it would end up being somewhere different within their AFSCME pay
plan,just based on their position responsibilities. Um, we're looking at an increase in
wages of approximately $254,400. We would also be looking at an increased benefit pay,
so that includes the health insurance and dental for$367,000. So the total would be
$621,400 for 38 positions approximately. Um, you know, if there's a....a change in the
number of employees that would, um, that would take the health insurance. So if now
50% of them would....would end up taking that health insurance, um....excuse me....it
would...it would just vary,uh, in costs. So the...the insurance would drop a little bit,but
it would still be in,you know, several thousand....several hundred thousand dollars for
that.
Throgmorton/And this would be a rec...recurring cost?
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Monroe/It would (both talking)
Throgmorton/Year by year, correct?
Monroe/ So this is the....this is FY20, uh, there's no compounding. We didn't go that far out, but
it would compound and we also just to understand, this is the difference between bringing
those employees up to the current, um, 11.50 that is....that is budgeted this year, plus the
additional to bring them into the....into the union pay plan. Um....
Throgmorton/One last question. Uh, if we chose to do this, how would we pay for it?
Fruin/Uh, it would be very difficult right now because it's a recurring cost and we don't have the
flexibility to bring in that type of recurring cost right now. So we'd have to float it on
reserves the first year and basically when it comes down to next year's budget, we're
gonna have to...do everything we can to....to free up operational costs of...of that amount,
and then we'll have a more precise amount at that time, but, um....for the time being,
unless you want to identify cuts in the next couple weeks to the operating budget,we're
not gonna have that flexibility.
Salih/But isn't this going to come from the employee benefit levy?
Fruin/No, you could...you could probably cover some of the cost with the employee benefit levy
but I don't think you could probably cover it all (both talking)
Salih/I don't mean for this year because you already....yeah. Uh, but I mean like next year, like
next (both talking)
Fruin/Yeah,we'd have to look at that. So yeah, in addition....you can cut, you can raise taxes,
you can cut expenses, uh, if you hold things the way they are proposed right now,
you're....you're lookin' at usin' reserves, but if you tell us figure out a way to fund this
dollar amount, we're gonna have to come back to you with multiple scenarios.
Cole/What I would really like to do is we have this letter from Terry Byers. She's one of the
heads of the local AFSCME union and she has,uh, said the following in her,uh,
comment from January 29, 2019, in the late handouts, it's 9(i): 'It's maddening to see all
these hourly jobs when we know there are permanent jobs that could be created or
expanded for some tasks.' As far as I can tell, the precise issue that we're dealing with is
what happens for some of these employees over the course of a period of a number of
years that are sort of permanently stuck in this sort of second-tier job, where they're not
able to get the permanent, um,part-time position and they're not able to get the benefits,
when in effect they are doing this work over the long time,right? And so I think she
raises a very, very good point, urn, and I think to Pauline's point, getting that input,the...
the email that we have before us does not give us a sufficient level of detail. It seems like
to me this is sort of for...and it's no offense to her. I think she did a great job in response
to the proposal,urn,but what I would like to see is a, to the extent AFSCME's interested
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in doing this,much more detail in terms of the specific proposals that they have, in terms
of switching some of these from part-time, uh, to permanent part-time, to get their input,
or potentially some of them to full-time. I think that that is very, uh, that is something we
need to take a look at. In terms of this immediate budget year, I don't think we're really
ready to make a decision of this magnitude,without getting that level of detail,um,but I
would like to hear more from them in terms of a specific proposal that they would have,
um,to the extent that they would like to. I share your concern, your concerns, Jim, you
know, if we're talking about approximately a million dollars, we have some other big
ticket items, and I remain committed to increasing the minimum wage, which I
understand to $15 an hour, which could be up to a million dollars a year, if we expand
those for the next three year, up to $15 an hour. So I wanna make sure that we're able to
do that,but I want a greater number...amount of detail from AFSCME in terms of what
they're thinking. I do think operationally it has hurt us to some degree, where we do have
certain jobs that should be more permanent, that we have a great deal of turnover and I
think that that has,uh, caused some uncertainty in terms of the provision of services. So I
think as a long-term goal we need to do it. In terms of this immediate budget year in the
next two weeks, I think it's too complicated a decision to make on this short of notice. So
that's sort of where I am at this point.
Mims/I would agree with you, Rockne. I think one of the things we did was we had a meeting, I
believe,back in August, where Council was asked to bring,um, ideas to staff in terms of
any major budget items, so that staff had time to, you know,put that into the planning for
the year, and I think something this major needs to be brought in at that point in time,
where it really gives staff time to think about it in context of the...of the big budget for
the year. So one I....I think it's late for this big of an amount to be trying to be added for
the 2020 budget, and secondly, I...I would just quote a couple other things from Terry
Byer's email,urn, from the union. And she said, you know, she said don't get me wrong, I
would love to have hundreds of potential new members,but I know this won't be the
case. Many of the jobs would be consolidated or eliminated. Another factor that isn't
being taken into effect is the number of permanent jobs all over the City that have in their
description'supervising' of hourly employees. Concern that that would go away. Um, I
would love to see more permanent employees be full-time,but there isn't money for that.
So I...I think, you know,budget can only stretch so wide. So I think while they very
much would like to have more full-time,more permanent employees, um, I think they
also understand that we have a limited budget, and I don't see how we can move forward
with this for the 2020 budget.
Throgmorton/Yeah, it seemed to me Terry's email was pretty ambivalent about the specific
proposal in front of us. So what we could do is....(several talking) here's what I suggest,
and I think it's consistent with what Rockne just said, and what Susan just said. We...we
could...chose not to do this specific action this year,but instruct the staff to,uh, consult
with our labor representatives about the list of 38....see if there are....specific
suggestions about which ones they think would agree...are most...in need of conversion,
something like that. I don't wanna tie your hands, Geoff,here but, uh, something that
involves some kind of consultation. Looking forward to the forthcoming budget year.
I....I personally would not support the...expending, uh, committing this kind of,uh,this
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amount of money for this year's budget, when we're this far along into the process. But I
do think it's worth looking at more carefully. I don't know what the rest of you(both
talking)
Salih/But, Jim,we....I guess I don't know why not, if we have 2.9 million for the surplus for the
Council fund, which is not gonna affect any other fund, and if we don't give our
employees 600,000 out of this surplus fund,this is will go the reserve! Why we are
saving and we abusing our employees? We are just like make them come here and do
everything and not getting like a....getting like health insurance? You just telling me that
we gonna put like almost two million, we saving them for facility for emergency and
what, we don't wanna give it to those people just because we....we did not like really
thought about it in the beginning?
Throgmorton/I personally would be a lot more persuaded if any employees had approached me
and said, "We really need for you to do this." Not a single employee (both talking)
Salih/They approach me. You want me to bring some people here (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ....approached you(both talking)
Salih/ ....because I deal with those kind of people, like normally. I meet with those kind of
people,maybe you are not,but I always meet with those people, and they always telling
me, especially the Rec Center people, and I guess I don't know but I thinks also hear from
someone about this. Somebody told me that, you know, somebody told you they need
more hours and they need to be like get benefit. I don't know, sometime people they don't
have to reach out to you. If you really see something wrong going on, you just have to go
ahead and correct it! This is absolutely wrong to be happening by the City. Sometime
even we...we told the private business not to do this. And we as a government, we doing
this? And why should we save, if you really passionate about doing it, why should we
save money and not giving those people health insurance and benefit?
Taylor/I appreciate your concern,Mazahir, cause that....that is very valid,but...I know that it's
not intentional on the City's part to have ever done that. Having worked for the
University for over 38 years, they do the same practice. If you work under so many
hours per week, you're considered just part-time or hourly and you don't receive benefits,
and they're a very large employer in the community and they do this very same practice.
It'd be way more than 38 employees that would fall under that category. So I mean it's
not the City intentionally doing this but I....I do have a lot of concerns about it. I'm also
concerned from what I heard in talking with the union and some of the employees that in
this position as temporary or hourly, they have the flexibility of hours and I'm not sure if
Ashley'd be able to answer that or Geoff, if that would go away if they then were more,
uh, determined to be permanent, uh, or....yeah,permanent or not,just hourly, they
wouldn't have that same flexibility of hours that they have as part-time, hourly, cause that
would concern me, but then so I think hearing from all of these that would be affected,if
indeed that's their concern, and meeting with...with the union, and they should talk to the
union! If they have these concerns.
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Teague/I think for me it's not so much the 621,000,that we can, you know,put it in the budget
really quickly. I think it's...it would be done too quickly and it would be done without,
you know, considerin'the individuals that jobs could be affected, or they could lose their
jobs and then we're....really nee....we really need some time to reexamine those jobs,
those positions. Are some of them goin' from 20 to 40, and so I think if we....if we,you
know,kinda push this through,um,then, you know, a lot of people are gonna be affected,
and we may not be takin'into account, urn, all the,um, the things linked to doin'
something like this. So it's not the money. Urn,because I think we could find the money.
Um, I....so it's not about the money. It really is about, you know, let us now,you know,
talk about how can we work with staff, give them some direction on,urn,movin'this
forward, and you know, and....and makin' sure that it's in our budget in the future, and
that's what we wanna do as a, um, majority.
Salih/I know I not gonna get support on this,but I gonna continue talking, and I'm gonna ask
Geoff question. You first mention...you text me that and you said there is money, 580,
that been put aside for nothing, and can a...can you tell me about that,because I really
don't know. Yeah, like 500-something, 80-something,we just put it aside, without using
it. I really don't know anything about that, if you can tell us why that money being put
aside.
Fruin/Our general fund has a 1% contingency. That's a pretty standard practice with...with
budgets. You...you budget a percent,urn,that is a contingency for unforeseen,um,
operational costs that come up throughout the year.
Salih/This is...exactly! This is the unseen one and we just saw it, why we don't use that money?
Throgmorton/I think what Geoff s referring to is something like a fire in the Landfill, something
that really comes completely out of the blue and requires an....an expenditure that we
were not anticipating, at all. What you're asking us to do now is commit the City to
roughly$700,000 a year, or more, into the foreseeable future. That is not responding to a
contingency. That's not what a contingency fund is for.
Salih/What about the two million?
Throgmorton/What two million?
Salih/Out of the surplus fund that we gonna put it on the reserve.
Throgmorton/I'm sorry, I don't know what fund you're referring to.
Fruin/That's the fiscal year 18 surplus. So those are dollars that we don't(both talking) We...we
don't anticipate to get those dollars year-after-year, so I would always caution the City
Council to use surplus dollars to fund operational, cause when you're hiring an employee,
um, you are doing so not with the expectation of one-year's worth of employment,but
that you can keep that employee permanently. So I would never recommend that you use
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surplus dollars for....for those types of operational expenses. That's why we focus on
things like capital projects or reserves, one-time expenses,when we are fortunate to have,
uh....uh, surplus like we did in fiscal year 18.
Salih/I think we have really good reserve. We have almost five....five million for the
emergency reserve. We have that 500 somewhere for also this whatever it come up, and
we have also now the two million that we can really use from that facilities reserve,
which is I thinks....this should be done now, and I'm gonna ask you also another
question. I....my understanding, all the City benefit and wages, it come from special
revenue levies,which is called employee benefit. Am I right or not?
Froin/I don't know. I'd have to get....talk with Dennis and maybe Dennis can come up and
answer that. Um, I don't know if we take all the wages and benefits out of that employee
benefits levy.
Bockenstedt/Dennis Bockenstedt, Finance Director. Uh, there is a levy that can be used for
employee benefits. Uh, there is no cap to that levy but can only be used for employee
benefits.
Salih/Just...
Bockenstedt/ So that...that's what it's limited to.
Salih/You mean next year, if we say we approve it, and we use any kind of fund for this year
600,but next year it will come actually from the taxpayer, right? Because the levy will
be increase by,uh, like some kind of percentage, which is gonna make additional of
$600,000, right?
Bockenstedt/We could increase the employee benefits levy to cover the benefits portion...
Salih/Uh huh.
Bockenstedt/ ....of these employees, and we are already to some degree, because um, from what
the current wage is, we do levy for some of the FICA and IPERS that are being covered.
Uh, we would not be able to use that levy for the additional wages. So if they go from
the $11.50 to $17.89 or higher, uh, we would not be able to use that levy for that.
Salih/It would come from the general fund.
Bockenstedt/I would have to come from the general fund.
Salih/ Okay.
Throgmorton/Okay,we have lots of other topics to discuss. I'd like to see if we can move on.
Uh, are there four people in support of what Mazahir has recommended? If....if you
support please just say aye I do or yes. Okay. So I don't see support for that. I made an
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alternative suggestion, which was to not do it this year,but to instruct the staff to look
more carefully at this. You wanna help me with some language here, Rockne?
Cole/I....I do. I move to evaluate this proposal, pending our next budget review year. So
presumably that would be, um, FY21, where we would have that August discussion, and
from this point to that, um, what I'd like to do is get that consultation with our unions, to
making sure that we're...we're evaluating this, um, holistically with our unions to evaluate
this. So I don't know if that' specific(both talking)
Throgmorton/That language sounds pretty good to me. I just wanna make sure we're not
literally tying our City Manager's hands, because....
Cole/ ...consideration. So...so move to further evaluate the proposal, as made by Mazahir, except
not this year, the following year, and consultation with the union to get more particulars
as to the impact on the budget and the staffing levels.
Throgmorton/ It sounds reasonable to me.
Salih/But you are not agreeing to do it next year.
Cole/That would be correct.
Salih/But you are just want to evaluating next year.
Cole/Yes!
Salih/Oh my gosh! Okay!
Throgmorton/Evaluate it to see whether it would be incorporated into next year's budget.
Salih/I thought because we don't have money this year that's why we want to do it next year. So
it will...we approve it for next year but we are not approve it for this year,but this is
completely not...you....you are thinking for evaluation for next year.
Cole/Yes.
Thomas/Uh, Jim, one...one thing I might add, I did do a little bit of an analysis of, what other
cities do. I always find that to be a useful exercise in terms of whatever subject we're
discussing, and you know, I would add to this analysis that we would be doing next year,
comparable analysis. I did find that Ames and Madison have an arrangement where their
hourly employees,based on the number of hours that they work, get a prorated healthcare
package, kind of like City Council does. So I mean there are....there are nuances
beyond, you know, what we've discussed,uh, which potentially could lower the cost of
this....this whole subject matter. So you know I think it's a very complicated issue.
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Throgmorton/ So this sounds like a friendly amendment to the way Rockne expressed that... that
idea. Yeah. So,uh, are there at least four people in agreement with that combination of
things? Geoff, do you understand what we're lookin' for here?
Fruin/Yes.
Throgmorton/Good deal. Thank you. Okay, our next item....00ps! We're still in the same item,
aren't we, so are there...other particular proposals that have to do with the...the fiscal year
2020 budget? Uh, Geoff, you mentioned the Sanxay-Gilmore House. I can provide the
Council with a very brief update about this. Last week Geoff and I met with President
Harreld at the University, uh, to explore,begin exploring the possibility of either us
purchasing that house, or somehow investing in the preservation, and....long-term
preservation of that house, while retaining it in the University's ownership, and other
possibilities. I think we had a very fruitful meeting. My sense was that the President
responded with, um, with interest and uh, at some....at one point he basically said, uh,
well, let's see now....well I...I think I can say this in all fairness. He said we won't leave
you in the lurch, and I...that....that, I understood that to mean that they want to work with
us, and therefore...I certainly found it to be a....very fruitful and hopefully very
constructive meeting. Uh, there will be further meetings that are related to this. Yeah, so
beyond...with regard to the budget and the cost, I think we should just leave, what is it,
330 in there as a placeholder. If...if we, eventually have to move it across the street, the
cost will be higher if we chose to do that.
Cole/One detail that I wanted to get though related to this, Jim, is we were gonna get, I think,
from, uh, Simon an approximate, uh, selling price, fair market value,uh, cause we all got
sticker shock. It's my understanding it's going to be about,potentially up to $2 million,
total, including the value of the parcel across the street.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Cole/The moving costs, remodeling, etc., to move it across the street, so I had asked Simon what
would the fair market value be, with a historic landmark designation, and no other
restriction, for the City just to sell it out-right if we were able to do that. Were we able to
get that ballpark figure?
Fruin/Yeah I have it....I have it handy....
Cole/Okay.
Fruin/ ...one second....well, Simon, if you've got it handy you come up, uh, come up (mumbled)
Andrew/ ...go off of memory here,but the average was 470,000 for a projected sale price. I
believe the range was roughly 430 to 516, I think was the high and low end of that range,
and that's no historical designation and, um, roughly the same land costs it's assessed for
now.
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Froin/So you'd be lookin' at....you're lookin' at 1.2 million, roughly, in rehab, moving and rehab
costs. If you wanna factor in the cost of the land, which we already own, you're roughly
at about a million. So you're right,two million, uh, give or take a little bit, and then
based on comparable sales, and we worked with the City Assessor, uh, Simon did to...to
figure out what type of square footage, uh, or what comparable apartments, uh, have sold
for, and it's about 470,000, was our best guess.
Cole/ So we'd be looking at approximately$1.6 million loss?
Fruin/Roughly.
Cole/Okay. That's problematic.
Throgmorton/Okay, so what I just asked you go do is stay tuned. There will be subsequent
conversations and I'll report back to you about it, and....so on. All right, are there other
particular items, for the fiscal year 2020 budget?
Thomas/Well one that,um, we....we did get some letters on this, uh,that I...I would like to, uh,
ask for support is the form based code for Northside Market Place. You know I do think,
uh, ifs....it's something that needs to be addressed now. Um, we've seen I think just in
the last, I wanna say seven years,rezonings of three properties in the Market, Northside
Market Place area, the corner of Linn/Bloomington, and then the two northern corners at
Linn and Market. So we're....we're seeing, you know, pressures shall we say, for...for
that development, uh, in that area. Northside Market Place is....is one of our more
unique, uh, commercial areas. Uh, it's one of our more beloved commercial areas. It's
something that I think we need, uh, to address. It also has impacts on some of the historic
designations that have come before us. So what...what I had said, um, to those that I
spoke to on this was....you know,the cost, I believe, of our consultant work for the
Northside included the Northside Neighborhood, in addition to the, uh, commercial area,
Northside Market Place. So I would....I would like to just focus for the time being on the
commercial area, and move forward on that, um, in the next budget session. Um, I don't
know if we have figures for what that might be, um, guess we would....the starting point
would be looking at what...what the Opticos estimate would be and then if we're not
comfortable with that, I think we may want to consider, uh,putting it out for an RFP for
other consultants (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Geoff, do you have any idea what it might cost?
Froin/Well, about a year ago we had this conversation, determining whether we go with the
South District form based code or the...the Northside form based code. The Northside
estimate was 275,000. Um, now that included the larger residential neighborhood too.
We didn't look at ever shrinking it up. Uh, Council gave us the...the direction to, uh, go
with the South District, and you just approved that contract at your most recent meeting, I
believe. Um, so I...I would guess you're still...if you go sole source with Opticos again,
you pay a premium, again, to work with Opticos. Uh, you're probably....you're probably
still gonna be lookin', you know, north of 150,000, I would guess, even if you shrink it up
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there. A bigger concern for me is just our...our staff capacity to manage two of these
processes, in addition to the...the regular, uh, flow of,uh,planning reviews that we have
to do. You know, our Planning team is....is pretty small, and to manage two contracts,
uh, like that would be a....a tall ask for them.
Mims/That was the question I was gonna ask, and so I...yeah, I mean I think we dealt with this a
year ago, and I think....I think it was a challenge for all of us at that time,because we
really wanted to do both, and wanted to do both of them as quick as possible,
but...ultimately decided that the South side would take precedence, because that was
basically greenfield and we wanted to get it done before that was all developed with a
bunch of single-family homes and it was basically too late. And I think it was. It was a
combination of the money, but also just staff capacity, and so as much as I'd like to move
forward with this now, I think it needs to wait.
Taylor/ I just think, uh, it's important that we not lose sight of this, cause it's such an important
part of our community and we keep talking about placeholders and I would hope that, I
mean 150,000 doesn't sound like all that much, compared to the money we've been
talking about this afternoon, uh, the time, staff time—yes, that should be taken into
consideration,but it's just such an important part of our community, and we have so much
historical value, and as John mentioned in the letter we received, got that,you know,
they're already seeing the destruction of some of the older buildings, and it's sort of losing
the whole vision of what the Northside is all about. Uh, that warmth and...and
welcoming part of Iowa City. I just think it's really important we not lose sight of it
and...and put it somewhere, at some point very soon, in our budget.
Mims/Yeah, I mean my sense was when we talked about it last year was that we were gonna try
and move into this as soon as we got the South side done, I mean, gonna try to go right
into it,because we felt they were both very important,but the combination of money,
maybe even more importantly staff capability, to...to manage the two contracts.
Teague/One thing I...I think I heard staff say in the past is,um, havin'these different form based
codes is, uh, a little confusing, and so I'm not sure how that all plays in the mix. If there
was a way to (laughs) I really don't understand the total process, but to combine them and
then,uh,make it more simpler for...I, you know, sections that are Northside, Southside. I
just know that I heard them sayin' it was very, um, it was becomin' a little complicated, as
well as for staff to explain it, um, where to look for specific things in getting' a little
confusing. So I'm not....I just wanted to bring that up, because I know that it was
mentioned here before.
Cole/Jim, I just have a question. I know we all really wanna get into the benches topic. Would
it be possible for us to defer this conversation until, um, after(both talking)
Throgmorton/ I think we can finish this topic and then move to the benches.
Cole/Okay! So there's one more budget thing that Maz and I wanted to bring up though. So,
um, my thought would be is I would like to do a work session so we....not a very long
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one, but a....half-hour, 45 minutes, on this topic. I do think really what we're talking
about with John is not really more than three to four blocks of area. There's really not
that big of area in the North Market Square. So I would support that, um,in terms of
finding a way for a placeholder. I don't know whether we do a work session and then
modify,do a budget modification later, um,but I think it's critical, and the thing is with
waiting,my concern is, there's a lot of projects potentially on the hopper and we really
need to get this done. So I would support that, but I'd also like to get a work session so
we can more fully flesh this out so we're not feeling rushed.
Throgmorton/ I'm okay with that.
Mims/When do we have to vote on the budget?
Fruin/Uh...you'd really have to set the public hearing at your second meeting in February,just
like you did with the Assessor's Budget. So you've got one more regularly scheduled
Council meeting, and then you want to have more discussions, it's probably going to be
special meetings.
Cole/We can do a modification after....I know we don't like to do that, but we can do that, can't
we?
Throgmorton/Yeah, we can.
Fruin/You can amend (both talking)
Cole/The other thing with Opticos, I love Opticos, but I don't know that we need the Cadillac. I
mean for crying out loud,prior to 1945 they made all of these naturally. So I'm hoping
that we could evaluate that (mumbled)
Throgmorton/Yeah. All right. So....
Mims/I would like to go back to some of the other items that we had talked about before and just
get some clarification.
Throgmorton/Do you want to get this resolved first? (several talking) ...do that. So, uh, what
I'm understanding is there is support,majority support anyhow, for...uh, having a work
session discussion about this, trying to find if it's, decide whether we want to and whether
it's possible to actually develop a form based code for that immediate one-block, and
maybe immediately around it, I'm not sure what the boundaries would be, uh, and that
involves staff time, that involves the possibility of, uh, doing a request for proposals,
involving other firms, hopefully reducing the cost substantially.
Fruin/Can you clarify the timing of the work session? Are you trying to do this before the
budget,or is this a proposed budget issue?
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Cole/We could do post-budget, couldn't we, Jim, I mean....we can modify the budget, so I'd say
post-budget.
Throgmorton/That's all right with me, if it's all right (several talking)
Fruin/ ...pending list then.
Throgmorton/ Sorry, Maz! Oh, okay. All right, so I know you have topics, but would it be better
to move to the benches, given the timing, given the interest people have, and then we can
(both talking)
Mims/Yeah, that's fine!
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/ Okay, so we're gonna pick back up the budget discussion, after....probably after
our work session,because I think the discussion about the benches will take some time.
So...the next item on our work session agenda is, um, clarification of agenda items, and
one of the agenda items is communications, that's item 9(a). There are item...there are
quite a few communications, emails and the like, to us about the ped mall benches. So I
think this would be an appropriate time to talk about that and try to become clear about
what our intentions are, what our direction to the staff would be. I wanna say just a little
bit about that,just for background. Not a lot! I intend to say more during the, at the start
of the community comment period, uh, during our formal meeting. In this instance, I just
wanna get us to focus on the decision before us. Okay! So, remember we first
encountered this topic in mid-December, after we had learned about concerns being
expressed on social media. Concerns about these new benches and how some of'em, all
of'em, none of the new benches....all of the new benches had arm rests in the center and
therefore no one could lie down on 'em, especially homeless people. So, that came to our
attention. So we discussed that during our September 18 work session, and at that time
we instructed our City Manager, Geoff, to report back to us about whether it is possible to
install a meaningful fraction of benches that are reasonable cost. That's my translation of
the direction,but I think it's very close. So, Geoffs been collecting that information, and
as directed,he has now provided us with a memo reporting what he found. And that
memo appears in our information packet. I don't remember what the item number is in
that(both talking)
Mims/ Seven.
Throgmorton/ ...January 17th, Item 7....in the January 17 information packet. According to that
memo, we can ensure that...anywhere from seven to 21 of all ped mall benches, that is 10
to 30% of all the benches, all in the whole ped mall, would have no arm rest, at a cost
between 6,000 and $13,500. That's my condensed version of your memo, Geoff. You
actually gave us an estimate about what it would cost to...make sure all of the benches do
not have armrests, including replacing all the 35 or so that have previously been installed.
And that was like$150,000, or thereabouts. So, would you like to add any detail to what
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I just said about, uh, about your memo? Okay, so the question before us, really, is do we
want to A) replace all the benches that have been installed and then purchase new
benches that would not have arm rests and it would cost us about$150,000. Do we want
to replace none? To have all the(laughs) all the benches have arm rests and just proceed
with what had originally been intended, or to have some meaningful fraction, like 10% or
20% or 30%, etc., of the...all the benches to not have arm rests. Okay, and the cost goes
up just a little bit, step by step, for 10%, 20%, to 30%,until you get to the upper 40's, and
then suddenly, barn, there's a tipping point and the cost goes up a lot. So do you folks
have preferences?
Salih/Can I just ask question before we make our preference? I wanna ask, the 17 benches, all
of them at the ped mall?
Fruin/Yes.
Salih/Okay, and how many has been like really there right now?
Fruin/Thirty-three have been installed. Thirty-seven are scheduled to be installed this
construc...this upcoming construction season.
Salih/My understanding that(unable to understand) yet.
Fruin/Correct.
Salih/Then, uh,this means it's not gonna cost us additional money for the 37,because we can
order them without arms.
Fruin/ Correct. So if we looked at the same style bench, without the center arm rest, we would
pay a little bit of a higher price. So we locked in our prices on the benches a year ago
when we bid this. Now when our contractor has gone on....gone back to the bench
manufacturer, to get that same bench without the arm rest we would pay a fraction,uh,
more. So....
Salih/Can you tell me exactly how much more?
Fruin/Urn, yes I can. Uh, have to do some quick math here, cause we have three different styles
of benches. Uh, it would be $7,000 for one of the styles, $1,873.20 for the second style
of bench, $1,238.40, uh, for the third style of bench, so roughly 10,000. And that would,
for your....for your phase two, that would do all those benches, those 37 benches, without
that center arm rest. Those would all be located in the second phase. So as you can
picture the completed ped mall,the benches that are installed right now with the arm rests
would all be where they're at now, and then between Black Hawk Mini Park and the two
....two College Street wings would all have the....the no arms. What we've suggested
and the pricing reflects on the percentages is that you probably wanna intersperse those
styles of benches. So....part of the...part of the other costs that you see in the memo
would be the labor to remove some of the existing benches, that have been installed, and
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replace....put them in phase two, and then put some of the new benches that would be
comin' in, in the phase one area (mumbled)
Salih/Now that means 5,900 for a....for four...to take 'em out from there, right? To take them...
actually why not gonna take the whole thing,because you saying now 35. Thirty-three
has been, you know, already on the ped mall, right? Half of this 33 would be maybe take
'em from here, the...to the phase two, and the new one that we going to order, which is 37,
will be without arm. So we can put like half of them here and half on the other side. Uh,
but how this is will...make us pay 150 in this case, because(both talking)
Fruit)/ if you look at the memo, I key in on that. You know, you're lookin' at that 50/50
mark, that 47% is really that....that tipping point, as the Mayor alluded to. Once you get
past that 47%, then some of the benches that we've already bought and installed, we no
longer have a use for. We either have to put them somewhere else in the community, or
we have to....to sell them. Um, because we don't...we don't have a use for them. That's
why that...that's why it jumps up so much after that number.
Salih/You mean if we replace the whole benches?
Frain Correct. (both talking) That's why 47%'s only 21,000, but if you wanna replace all of'em
it's 150. Because all of a sudden we're buying 33 more benches than we anticipated, at
the outset of the project.
Taylor/Geoff, where do the benchmark benches fall into those numbers, cause those are the ones
you said that, like the Downtown District and maybe the painting project would continue.
Are those included in those, no rail?
Fruin/ Our intention with the existing benchmark benches, those are the painted benches, would
be to continue to sell those. We've been selling those on our govdeals, uh, surplus auction
site. The benches, what the intention is with the ped mall plan is that we would continue
that painting partnership with the Iowa City Downtown District, but it would be
concentrated to the wing of the ped mall that's basically the Library, uh...uh....uh,
playground area there, and so the new benches that get installed in that area, they'd be
brand new benches,but they would still be able to be painted on by the local artists.
Taylor/But it's a different style(both talking)
Frain/It's a different style but, yeah....
Taylor/Thank you.
Thomas/On that particular issue,uh, one....one suggestion that....that I'm interested in putting
forth is,uh, keeping the existing benches which have been, that are currently part of the
benchmark program. I think there are 17 benches out there now. Uh, and just simply, uh,
including them in...in the design of the ped mall, so that we don't....we would just simply
be using those. We wouldn't need to order the full, uh, what Geoff was just saying, uh, 37
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are to be purchased. We would need to purchase 20 rather than 37. Um, so there would,
I suspect there would be a cost savings on that. The other....the other thing that,
um....supports using the existing benches is the....uh, the....new benches,the one that
is....is the, the bench that would replace the existing benchmark bench. Uh, has a very
wide gap between the seat and the back. It's the plain well bench, if you're familiar with
the designs of the two bench types. So there wouldn't be the continuous surface, uh, for
the artwork to be incorporated on. Uh, so....so in that sense, uh, when I....when I look at
the existing benches, and see how well adapted they are to the benchmark program, uh,
that combined with the fact that it would reduce the number of benches that we have to
order, urn, I'm also sensing that, uh, some of the comments I'm hearing from the
community is they really like those benches. Uh, they are quite comfortable. Uh, so
for...for a number of reason, the last of which I will mention, is the gap, urn, the gap I was
looking at this over the weekend, and in terms of the standards of the US Access Board,
which addresses issues of accessibility,urn, one of their bench specifications is that the
gap should not exceed two inches. And I haven't put the tape measure to that gap,but I
think ifs roughly...I wanna say about six inches. So, urn, and we....we also received a
letter from, uh, from a resident who said that, you know, young children may have issues
with that gap anyway in terms of, you know, possibly things falling through the gap,
whether it's stuff or their own bodies, um, so....so it seems to me that on a number of
fronts, as a starting point in this conversation anyway, if we keep the existing benchmarks
that we still have, it should....they're.....they're without a mid-arm, so they already satisfy
that need. They could reduce the cost. I think they're better suited for the benchmark
program. Uh, and they're comfortable and don't have the gap.
Salih/You know how many of them there?
Thomas/ Seventeen.
Salih/ Seventeen? You know I really agree with you on that. Just I wanna mention, when...
when you lookin' at the old benches and the new benches, the old benches is longer and
the new one I guess is a little shorter, and also you know the....those are very, the old one
is very comfortable, and even though it's just design on them they look really nice, uh, I
agree that we should keep 'em.
Cole/How much would that cost, Geoff, if we just kept'em? I mean would there be a
cancellation fee, uh, associated with...the change order?
Fruin/ Scott, do you....Scott Sovers is the Project Engineer.
Sovers/Yes, I think there'd be a cost to remove and then reinstall the existing benches. So there's
going to be an incremental cost there. The other thing that we probably wanna keep in
mind too is some of those benches are not in the greatest shape. Urn,phase one only took
some of those out. They basically fell apart. So we may have to take a look at which
ones can actually be reused.
Cole/But that'd be a relatively minor cost, in terms of the installation?
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Sovers/I would think so.
Cole/Would there be a cancellation fee in relation to the new ones that would have gone there?
Sovers/Yeah, I mean it'd (both talking)
Cole/ ...minimum?
Sovers/Yeah. Yep.
Throgmorton/I think there is clear....support within the community to retain some of the older
benches. Perhaps we should do that, but you know I heard just what Scott said, and I
understood that some, or maybe even all of the older benches, aren't really in good
enough condition to retain,but if they can be, I think there'd be clear community support
for that. That said, we still would need to consider whether to install some....of the
newly purchased, the benches we're going to purchase, to install some that don't have arm
rests, in other parts of the mall, so there is dispersion throughout the mall, and I....my
personal sense is that there's no need to have a large fraction of all the benches to, uh, to
achieve that....my language is gettin'messed up here. I....I think somewhere between 10
and 20% of all the benches should be without arm rests in the center. That seems to me
to be in the ballpark, and at a reasonable cost as well. And maybe by doin'the...retainin'
some of the older benches, we can accomplish that more easily. So...I....I don't know
what y'all think about that, so....
Taylor/ I thought, yeah, I thought 20%would be reasonable, urn, cause the numbers were seven
and seven, which is 14, and that...that seemed like a reasonable number, and then if we,
uh, retain some of the, uh, original benchmark benches to add to those numbers, I would
think that would...that would be good, a good solution.
Thomas/One....one thing I would also add, you know, as I think most of you know and probably
not most of the public, but this is....this was the work that I did for many years, designing
parks and open spaces, and....and the way....the way I have viewed this issue,which,
um, has gotten so much response is that it's....it's fundamentally a question of choice, and
providing opportunities, not just for the homeless but for the entire population. And so...
the way I....the way I tried to evaluate this is what are the benefits of the mid-arm and
what are the,uh, disadvantages of having the mid-arm, and the mid-arm does affect more,
you know, certain kinds of behaviors, other than, uh, stretching out(laughs) It's more
than that, I mean there are, you know, opportunities where you're sitting, if you're in a
family, with your child and the child, as we were saying, doesn't necessarily sit face
forward. They can sprawl out. You have your stuff that you bring as a family. So in my
view the....the benches without arms are addressing a fair number of scenarios that one
can see, especially around the play area,where you do have more likely larger groups of
families, which need to be accommodated with what we're providing. So another, what
that translates to me is something, in terms of these percentages,um, something closer to
30%. I think....I think just replacing the existing, you know, reusing the existing benches
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would put us over 20%. On the other hand, the other thing pushing on me is I don't want
to spend a lot of extra money on this project(laughs) so, you know, it's....I think we may
need a little bit more follow up information,but um, I think we can have our cake and eat
it too on this, without adding a significant amount of cost to it.
Throgmorton/Well I would hope we'd get to a point where we have clarity, so that the public
understands what we've decided. I wanna...don't wanna lot of ambivalence about what
we're doing.
Salih/For me I really think we need to do it like 50%,because I always thinks, all the people in
the city,they pay for those benches! And by looking at all the emails and the people who
say'yes,keep the arm rests,' and the people who say'no, don't keep 'em,'I thinks we need
to be 50/50. All of them are taxpayer and we have to....we cannot satisfy everyone, but
we try as much as we can to satisfy the public, so I think this is should be 50/50 and we
call this around $21,000 which is reasonable for a mistake that been done so we didn't
look to this closely and maybe a...that's what I really believe- 50/50, 50 with arm, 50
with not, especially 21,000 is not that much for just to satisfy our people who paying for
these benches.
Throgmorton/Just to be clear, I don't think we made a mistake. I think we have an opportunity
to make a mid-course correction, after having gotten some feedback from the public. I...I
honor the public's views. We've gotten feedback. We're taking that into account. I don't
think(both talking)
Salih/Okay, I gonna take out we. I made a mistake because I did not look at those benches when
they....they, you know,put this plan for us (unable to understand) I did not look to them
closely. Maybe if I did I will really raise a concern,but I did not and I think that's my
mistake, and we need to do this.
Mims/What I would like to see us do is if there are some of the current benches that are in good
enough shape to be reused, I'd like to see us keep those. Um, I think there is a....a lot of
interest in those. I....I think part of that interest is people maybe don't realize its new
benches are also going to be painted and they're part of, you know,part of the art project,
which we'll...and so I think that may be part of the reason some people are speaking
pretty strongly. But I do think the different design in terms of the comfort level and not
having the gap in them,um, is esp...especially for children, urn, I think is a positive.
Given that and....and I guess depending upon how many of those, um, are determined to
be suitable for continued use,then...what I would suggest is we....we continue with the
order of the others,um,the way they're already set. I think, what I guess frustrates me a
little bit with this is I think....l think what has come up is....is a solution to a problem
that doesn't really exist. Um, when we look at the reports from, and nobody's really
brought this up in the discussions, so I'm gonna get it out front and center, I mean you
talk to our police that are down there. We basically have no homeless people sleeping
down there. Um,we've put millions of dollars and continue to in terms of what I would
consider to be real services, to benefit the homeless,um, and to be proud of having
benches that they can sleep on,um, I'm not proud of that. I wanna do a whole lot better
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for our homeless, and that's what we are doing in this community. Urn,but if we keep
some of those that are reusable, urn, I think that's a reasonable way to go, and I would
also point, and most people have not seen this. I think some of the Council Members
have had a chance to look at it, but it came in late today. Um....from Cady Gerlach with
Shelter House, and I think when you start looking at these percent of benches and you
talk about the kind of service that you want to give, you know, with the prices that were
in the staff memo, 10% roughly$6,000, that rent...that is rent and utilities in a two-
bedroom apartment for six months for a family of four. I'd rather spend that $6,000
helping that family of four, uh, for six months than replacing 10% of the benches. 20%,
rent and utilities in a four-bedroom home for six months for a family of seven. To me
that's a whole lot better use of$10,000 than replacing a few benches...that people are not
even sleeping on. Um, 30%, five households, single adult or family, help through rapid
re-housing, rental assistance, security deposits, and rental payments—average of$3,000
per household, and there's more in here. Um, I think this is just a compelling argument
that everybody should look at, of where are we spending our money, and how is it truly
benefiting the homeless individuals. And to me it is not in giving them a bench to sleep
on. Um, a number of the homeless people have said they won't sleep down there because
they quite frankly are scared to be down there when the bars let out. Because you have
drunk people coming out of the bars that harass them, that steal their stuff. That is not
where they want to be. I would also say, equating conversations that this Council had in
2013 with the discussions that we had in the past year, with the redesign of the ped mall,
are two very different, uh, two very different points in time and two very different sets of
circumstances. We were dealing with synthetic drugs downtown, uh, which were causing
a huge problem for the homeless. And aggravating their behaviors. Since then we've...
we've put police downtown who have made great connections,handing out socks,
underwear,referring individuals to assistance, uh, we've opened up the winter shelter.
We are doing truly beneficial things to these...for these individuals, to help them and to
connect them with services. And so benches....they're not on the top of my priority list,
but I'm certainly willing to say let's keep the ones that are there that are structurally sound
and reusable and then continue with the new ones.
Throgmorton/All right, I wanna get us to a decision, rather than (several talking)
Cole/ ...yeah, so very quickly, I think really what we're dealing here with is a basic moral
question, and that questions is is where do members of our community belong and are
they welcome downtown? And I think what we're looking at is this bar is not only, we
don't need to think about it only literally,but it's also a metaphor. I think our greatest fear
is is that downtown is becoming a gated community, and we don't want that. We wanna
make sure that we demonstrate, literally, that everyone is welcome, uh, in our downtown.
Um, I agree with you, Susan, there were very complicated discussions that happened four
years ago. I totally understand that, and I don't want to impugn those decisions that were
made. I also agree with you that I do think what are we saying morally if we're saying
that we as a city want you to sleep on the benches? I...I do think that is a legitimate issue.
Um, I have though, I work downtown. I do see people sleeping on the benches in, um, in
dire circumstances. I've seen 'em multiple times. It continues to happen; it is an issue.
So to, Jim, to your point, to sort of wrap up this issue, I would support 20%, plus, which
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would be 20% of the, urn, the replacement, plus to evaluate on a case-by-case basis the
existing,uh,painted benches that we have down there, and then to also consider, urn, the
remaining 10,00 that we would have done to get up to that 50%, to do an additional
contribution to Shelter House, a little bit beyond the conversation,but I think they have
done terrific progress. Susan, you in particular have done wonderful progress on our, urn,
wonderful facility that we wanna do for the Access Center. So that's where I am—20-
plus, urn, downtown.
Throgmorton/That sounds like a pretty reasonable suggestion to me. I don't know about the rest
of you.
Teague/Yeah, I....I do want to make a comment, and I know we want to move this along, but
also take time to make sure that, um, we've addressed the public. Urn, I...I hear what, uh,
Rockne said. It really is, uh, when we're talkin' about homeless people, we wanna ma...
because that's how all this came about, we were talkin' about the homeless, um, there's
um....there's, we're definitely wantin'to make sure there's a place for them. Again, as
Susan said, a bench in the ped mall isn't where I wanna see the homeless. I would love to
see us really figure out, uh, sustainable solutions for people in our community that are
homeless, and when we're talkin' about benches, I mean, our discussion should be
different, in....in relationship to the homeless, and I heard someone, you k now, talking
about the data, and Rockne, I hear what you're saying, that you've seen people downtown.
Now there is a, some data where it's point-in-time data, that is,uh, connected twice a year
and that data came back with 0% of people sleepin' downtown at night,um, in the ped
mall. So now I....I'm sure at times there are people down there at night. I think some of
the individuals that are homeless, they do wanna be where there's shelter, where they can
not be exposed to the elements, because if you're on the bench, you know, you're exposed
so I think they choose to go, uh, under bridges where, as well as, uh, places where their
items can be safe, and....and not exposed to the public. Personally, I am....I am not in
favor of, um, increasin' the budget for the benches. I am more in favor of findin' another
solution,where we can place money, if it is taken 5,000, 10,000, whatever the case may
be, to find, you know, put it towards somethin' that will really go to the real issue and the
real solutions. That's what I'm in favor of—20%, 10%, 47% - for me that is not
addressin' the real issue and so I want to talk about the real issue, you know, and that's not
what we're....we're talkin' about benches right now, but in the future,that's what I would
like to address is the real issue, and so for me, um, supportin' and putting more money
towards the benches is not what I want to do.
Taylor/I....I agree with you, Bruce, cause personally I don't think we should have people
sleeping under the bridges, and we do, and on that point I wanted to give kudos to our
Police Department because from what I've heard, when we're in these sub-zero
temperatures, they go out and seek these people out, out of these bridges, and get them to,
uh, the Shelter House, or our wet shelter, uh, so they've done a marvelous job with that,
but that's where we should be concerned. We shouldn't have these folks livin'under the
bridges either.
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Throgmorton/Well I gotta tell you, I don't understand where...I don't know where that leaves us,
because I'm hearin'like six different perspectives. Okay?
Mims/I think I just heard Bruce say he doesn't want to spend any more money.
Throgmorton/That's what I heard. Mazahir wants to do 50/50 (several talking)
Mims/But he said no more money. 20%is more (several talking)
Throgmorton/Oh, okay, so you agree with what Rockne suggested (several talking) John,have
you expressed a view?
Thomas/Yeah, it would be roughly 30% is what....
Throgmorton/A combination of....
Thomas/Yeah, a combination of reusing the existing and (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Could be as low as 20, could be as high as 20 plus another 17 benches, you know,
all 17 of the existing....paint, uh, paintmark, no was it...benchmark benches.
Salih/But they said this is not in good shape(both talking)
Throgmorton/...just givin' a maximum.
Cole/So you're agreein'with me, John, correct? You're agreein'with me, 20%plus evaluate on a
case-by-case basis?
Thomas/Yeah, that would probably translate (both talking)
Salih/Can you just tell us how many benches in good of shape?
Sovers/Yeah, in the original design we didn't evaluate the condition of the existing benches, so
we'll have to do that. So right off the top of my head I don't know,but that's definitely
something we can do.
Throgmorton/And to be clear the further part of Rockne's suggestion was $10,000 to the Shelter
House to help with their homeless activities, their activities focused on homeless people.
Cole/Do we have four for that?
Throgmorton/Are there four in favor of that?
Cole/(mumbled)
Throgmorton/ I count one, I count two, I count three, I count four.
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Thomas/Yeah, I would just again wanna say, I am really not viewing this as...it has been framed
as a homeless issue, and the way I view it is choice for everyone, and that's the way we
should be looking at the arm rests, and it's...it's not simply the homeless who are impacted
by the benches having a mid-arm. They're just...there are restrictions, you're defining the
space in a smaller increment, um, so I think it's really unfortunate that it's become so
focused on one segment of the population that we're all concerned with, all doing a great
job trying to address. This is a public space, where we're talking about everyone of all
different sizes and ages, trying to be accommodated on the benches. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ ...quite a few people actually like to lie down on benches. Some of'em are really
close to me, like myself. I do that periodically. So, it's a good thing.
Thomas/A parent with child....
Teague/ I do wanna clarify. I....I, uh, did not mention that I was in favor of keepin' the 17
benches that are already there. For that reason, and so it can accommodate everybody.
Throgmorton/Okay, I think we have a majority decision here.
Cole/(mumbled) ....on the 10,000 to Shelter House as well?
Throgmorton/(mumbled)
Cole/Are you supportive?
Teague/Absolutely!
Cole/Okay.
Throgmorton/Five for that. Okay! All right, so it's about 20 till.
Fruin/(mumbled)just need some clarification, uh.....the....the 20% figure, is that just the
replacement figure, or is that....is that on top of saving as many benches as we can?
Cole/Twenty plus, so we save the 20, which is the option 2, plus we evaluate on a case-by-case
basis the existing painted benches.
Throgmorton/ So it's like 14 new benches that do not have arm rests, whether they be newly
purchased or ones that we just installed, right? You trackin'me there, Geoff?
Fruin/Yes!
Throgmorton/Plus, whatever number of the 17 existing paintmark benches can be saved because
they're in good shape and we would wanna continue using them.
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Fruin/Okay. Does....does Council want us to come back to you and do you wanna place these
benches? Do you want us to place them? I'm serious about that, because (both talking)
Thomas/ ....(mumbled)
Fruin/ ...focus on where the benchmarks go and where the new ones go.
Thomas/I, personally, I would, my starting point would be concentrating the restoration...the
benchmarks in the vicinity of the children's play area. I think that's where they would
have the most benefit, for those reasons I was describing. I think it would also
concentrate what I consider to be all the elements that we associate with Iowa City,
namely you know the local art, the play area, uh, the....that's down there for the children,
the fountain, the Library. These are all community-oriented programmatic elements that
are,that share that part of the ped mall, and I think the benchmarks, you know, would be
appropriate there and in fact that was the intent I think with the plan, of concentrating
them around the play area.
Cole/I'd agree with John.
Fruin/Okay.
Throgmorton/Sound reasonable?
Fruin/Sounds reasonable.
Throgmorton/All right. So let's continue to be reasonable and take a break, return to the work
session after the formal meeting, and we'll pick up with our discussion about budget
items.
(BREAK TO FORMAL)
(RECONVENE WORK SESSION)
FY 2020 Budget Discussion (cont.):
Throgmorton/We were discussing the budget, and we had gone through three items. I think
there may have been one or two other items that people wanted to bring up. So,please
do!
Mims/Yeah, I wanted to....we kind of talked about a list of things and how much it was gonna
be, am....out of that 2.95 million and how much was gonna be for the facility reserve.
Um, and you had asked me, Jim, last time kind of, you know, what I was thinking about
in terms...and I, without having really looked at all the numbers, I had said two million.
Um, so I've got a couple things here as we go through these. We....as a majority of the
Council agreed to add 350,000 to the affordable housing budget, above what the staff had
recommended. When we did this last year, uh, similar thing, one of the things that we did
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was we made that contingent upon getting our full backfill from the State. And I think
that is a very reasonable way to do that again this year. So that's my first one.
Throgmorton/Yeah, I don't know what others think. It's my understanding we're in a budget....
better budget position than we were last yearUh, Geoff would know this way better than
I do but....that's my understanding.
Fruin/Yeah, these'd be, I mean our reserve surplus that we're workin'with was certainly larger
than it was last year. We were more dependent on the backfill last year. That's accurate.
Cole/And, I think that that was a position I had made that was already defeated, correct? I had
made that exact proposal. I had wanted to do that million contingent upon the backfill.
So I think we already rejected that, didn't we?
Mims/I don't recall discussing(several talking)
Cole/Okay. (several talking) Well that's what I thought I did,but....maybe (several talking)
Mims/Well, I agree with you Rockne! (laughs)
Cole/ ....got defeated though(several talking and laughing) So....but I think the (both talking)
Mims/I...I do. I think, I mean again we're talking about, you know, reserves. We're talking
about other things that we need to do. So I...I guess I would throw that out. I think the
350 should be contingent on backfill.
Throgmorton/Well are....is there a majority that supports what Susan's just recommended? I...I
think I'd add one other thing. I think we're in a better financial position for the budget
this year than we were, or for the forthcoming budget, than we were last year. So that's
one thing, and so I...that kinda flips my concern. If...last year we had to make it, make
the increase contingent. This time I think 'okay, well if we see we're gonna be in a
problem, we'll cut wherever we need to cut,'but I don't expect that to happen.
Cole/Geoff, have we heard anything from the State legislators in terms of that? It doesn't seem
like....(both talking) as much about it, urn
Fruin/I fully expect it'll come up. It was nice that the Governor's budget did....did fully funded
backfill. That was a...that was nice to see, but urn, as priorities are....are bounced around
in Des Moines, uh....I'm pretty sure we'll see some of the (both talking)proposals
resurface, and again they were negotiating something on the last day of the session last
year that most people thought was going to get passed, and it fell apart, uh, at the last
hour. So, I think it'll come up. Now what we saw last year was a phase-out, and there
wasn't, uh, serious proposals to just cut us off. Urn,but it'll probably be phased out over
a period of two, three, five years.
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Mims/Okay. Then the other things, urn, that I had,just to kind of confirm our agreements. We
had all agreed then to the 140,000 for the South District housing. Urn, it was basically
coming out of that 2.95. We just agreed that the 150,000 for Del Ray is not going to
come out of that 2.95. That's coming out of the land banking funds. Got 100,000 for the
solar at Terry Trueblood. We had agreed on 450,000 to put the emergency reserve back at
five million, and so that would leave us with 1.91 million for the facility reserve, and
that's what I would propose.
Throgmorton/I think that's the situation we're in, isn't it? That....that's' consistent with the
decisions we've made I think so far. And....
Cole/Is that all you have to say, Susan?
Mims/Yep!
Cole/Okay. So following up on Mazahir's discussions about contingency planning for
unexpected expenses and opportunities that we have over the course of a year. Urn, one
of the things that I wanted to evaluate is not necessarily an affordable housing addition
fund, per se, but that essentially we would set aside, we had a discussion with a LIHTC
project couple weeks ago about$200,000 for, urn, additional affordable housing funding
to allow greater density in that particular unit. That ultimately was rejected, urn,but I
think something Geoff had said sort of intrigued me, which would be there could be other
more effective ways to utilize some of those affordable housing dollar funds, urn, and the
second piece is is for purposes of transportation. Urn, transportation, uh, has been a big
topic of discussion. We've talked about adding Sunday bus service. I think we've made it
in my view the wise decision not to go forward with expanding Sunday bus service, urn,
while we are,um, in the process of doing the planning study, and so what I'd like to,urn,
propose is that we,urn, evaluate possibly up to $200,000 that would be a Council justice
fund, that we would be able to, urn, keep in reserve for the types of contingencies that we
saw for 150,000, whether it be affordable housing or transportation. Urn, so wouldn't
necessarily, urn, that's something we would look at possibly,urn,proposing. So I don't
know what people think about that or....(mumbled) Maz brings up a really good point,
that we need to bring up contingency planning for our social justice needs. What are the
opportunities that would come up throughout the year, that we would then be able to tap
this fund for this unexpected contingencies, whether it be in transportation or affordable
housing. So for example, on Sunday bus service, one of the things I was hoping we
would get would be a more particular proposal from either the public, or maybe from
staff, about a possible interim solution involving vouchers. We don't have a well fleshed
out policy for like a Sunday transportation policy, but this would give us some funding
flexibility, if we get the right proposal, and if we don't get the right proposal, then it
would essentially just revert presumably into the general fund. So,urn, that's what I
would like to propose.
Throgmorton/With regard to your last point, uh, Rockne, I think....I'm expecting to see
something come to us, so why don't you say a little bit about that.
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Fruin/Yeah, on the interim Sunday service, you had asked us to look at that as staff and you also
put a call out to the community if you have ideas. Urn,North Liberty is currently
working through a taxi service proposal, and uh...um, they've shared with us the proposal
that they're....they're working on, so we're....we're lookin' at that. And then, uh, barring
whether cancellations this week, I know our Transportation Services' staff is having a
meeting with Horizons that provide...uh, they provide,uh, some Sunday and late-night
transportation services in Cedar Rapids. So we are exploring that. We're not in a position
to come back and report,but both of those would be in, uh, interim steps I think as you
characterized it,knowing that the long-term was gonna be studied (several talking)
Throgmorton/Presumably there'd be a cost associated with that(several talking)
Cole/ ...funding parameters for that be, do we know?
Fruin/Well, urn, I...I think we touched on this briefly during the Saturday budget work session.
The Transit fund currently operates at a surplus, 300, 400,000 a year, um, I believe
roughly. Um, those are funds that we have been setting aside for federal match for
facility replacement. Um, but we do have flexibility within that fund, uh,to shift some of
those over to operations, uh, if...if needed. And then as we talked about before, if that
subsidy were to come from the general fund, uh, we would either, uh, tap our reserves or
our contingency, and I just want to distinguish those. The reserves are kinda that savings
account that, um, that we keep from year to...you know, year over year, and then the
contingency's the 1%, uh, figure, which is 580, I believe, right now that just comes up for
the....that's what Dennis talked about earlier. You know, that's probably where we'll pay
the 10,000 to Shelter House,just those unplanned expenses that come up. We'll amend
the budget and that contingency will shrink to cover those un....unintended. So, there's a
possibility of using those funds too.
Mims/I think....I think if we've got 500 and something in contingency, it would seem to me that
that gives us an awful lot to be able to use, if there's something....you know, that we
really....that comes up, that we really wanna do. My concern is if you set a specific
budget item for that amount, it becomes a target, for everybody to wanna spend. And
maybe you don't....maybe you don't(several talking in background)best decisions
because people just wanna spend it. The other thing that I think is really important that
we keep in mind is we're going to have the HCDC coming to us (laughs) and....
Throgmorton/Yeah!
Mims/ ....I mean their...their memo (both talking) their memo said hundreds of thousands of
dollars. Now I'm not saying that we're going to do that or that we'll feel that we can do
that, but....we also....in that regard, you already have non-profit agencies doing a lot of
really good work, I would say our justice work within our community.
Throgmorton/ Crisis Center(both talking)
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Page 29
Mims/ ....that might be the first direction we would wanna go. So to me with already having
that 580,000 or whatever it is, in the contingency, that 1%, and knowing that HCDC is
coming to us, I....would prefer to go that way.
Throgmorton/Okay. Yeah.
Salih/ I just wanna mention, Jim, you told me earlier when I said the con...I don't even
pronounce,how to pronounce that word, but the fund for 5, uh, 580. When I said there is
fund there, you immediately said this is fund just for like emergency. Unless we have a
fire in the City or something like that, we gonna use it. And now you telling me we can
use it for social justice fund, and we cannot use it for....to give the City employee, you
know,benefit? I really don't understand. When I say something, you come up with
something, and now they come up with something completely different? Why you guys
undermining me? (both talking)
Throgmorton/Maz....
Salih/ ...and you saying something, and they say something else.
Throgmorton/I haven't said a word with regard to (both talking)
Salih/No, I'm talking about early, you said (mumbled)tape and just record that for you. When I
said there is 500, you said this is emergency, and this is only like something like a fire
come up in the City, we don't have to use it and this for emergency. That what you said,
and now those people they say, no, that fund is for....for everything!
Fruin/Maybe I can....maybe I can help explain and distinguish those two different things. When
you're talking about using funds for salaries, now all of a sudden there's no....there's not a
contingency there because those funds are really earmarked, not only for that year, but for
the next several years. So you...you've....you've in fact shifted from a contingency model
to an operational model. When we're talkin' about one-time funds,whether it's 10,000 to
the Shelter House or 200 for, uh, to be determined opportunity if any exists, t hose are
one-time, you know, particularly with that 200, you wouldn't necessarily be making that
commitment for two, three, four years like you would (both talking)
Salih/ ....did not explain it that way! That was bother me when I'm like....like proving my point,
and telling that, and you just shut me down by, 'Oh!'because I really don't know what that
fund for. I never heard about it and nobody told me about it. We never talk about it. But
you really said that really. That make me feel like, 'Oh, I'm really stupid. How come we
gonna use something for real emergency for that,' and now when we say, 'Okay, we need
fund for justice, and for that (mumbled)we have that money. We can use it for that!'
Mims/I...I guess what I (both talking) say is....I think Jim was using the emergency as an
example, and maybe....please let me finish(both talking)
Salih/He change it right now. He said you can use it here and you can use it there.
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Mims/What I was saying was I think Jim was using that as an example of something that we
might use contingency for, and I can see where if somebody did not fully understand
what a contingency fund is, they might misunderstand that. I would also say....I do not
believe that as a one of seven Council Members that any one of us is making any attempt
to undermine anything that you are doing or saying. There are going to be agreements
and there are going to be disagreements in a Council of seven. And we all have that
opportunity to express them. I have not ever had any conversation with any of my fellow
Council Members, nor have I ever felt myself that I was trying to do anything to
undermine any other Council Member. I will disagree. I will express my views, as we all
do, and we all should. That's what we're elected to do,but I don't feel that there is any
effort to undermine any Councilor sitting up here.
Cole/I think though to Maz's (both talking)
Salih/I will always say what I feel. Regardless you accept it or not.
Cole/But I think though that only underscores the need to have something that is sort of not
earmarked but more generally more guidance and focus in terms of a justice contingency,
um, in the transportation and affordable housing areas. Maybe we could further develop
that later on, but(mumbled) Do I have support for that proposal?
Salih/I....I support what you propose. I hate to be disappointed again, but I support what you
propose and I think we need fund to be allocated there for....for like Council justice fund
to do whatever we want to do, if it's something come in the future. That what I believe.
Throgmorton/We do have something coming our way, as Susan noted, the Housing,uh, and
Community Development Commission is sending us recommendations to commit
another roughly$350,000 to a whole series of agencies that are doing very important
work in this city. That's a new request for us to commit $350,000. Uh, I think we will
take that request very seriously,because these are really important agencies, um, but we
can't keep saying'yes' to everything that comes our way. We have to make judgments
and some people make certain judgments, other people make other judgments, and then
we look for the number four or more. That's what determines what the decision is.
Salih/ I said what I see, and lots of people (both talking) I always don't get support, that's fine!
Throgmorton/Maz, when we did, uh,when, the budget originally had $650,000 in it for
affordable housing. You wanted $1 million. What did we do?
Salih/Oh, I want it! You guys don't want it?
Throgmorton/No! Maz! You wanted us to put a million dollars into it(both talking) and we
did!
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Salih/You always...also propose something you wanted, and we....we will agree with you, why
not? I'm here just like you guys (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Sometimes and sometimes not. That is the way(both talking)
Salih/That fine. You guys say something! I just say you don't have to tell me something is not
like, uh, really....the whole information! You should tell me everything about the....the
fund. Not you say something that and to shut me down!
Teague/ So for me, the....the, you know,the proposal made by Roe....Rockne, the 200,000,
which can go for our Council justice fund, opportunity fund,however we name it. I
wanna acknowledge this Council, um, efforts for affordable housin' and the justice
programs that we're already doin'. A lot of them are not even in the, um, not even in the
2.5....2.95 million that we're considerin', and so for me, even though I....I would love to
support the 200,000, for me I....you know, say I would support it if there's Councilors
that would support it,but immediately if there's not four, I just....you know, draw that
support back. For me I think we've done it...we've....we've done some things. We would
love to do more. But I don't know that it's worth, urn, pressin'the issue, from my
perspective. I think, urn, you know, the....there's things that's gonna come before us in
the future. Um, you know,there's of course....you know, I didn't really prefer that we use
the land bankin'but you know.....that's okay! We can use, you know, we can get to some
of that stuff in the future. So, for me,the 200,000 justice fund, I think any projects that
we want, whether there's a justice fund or not, we can bring it to the Council, we can, uh,
present our case, and there's a ways to fund it if that is somethin' that we really want to
do. So for me, I don't know that I would push this issue.
Throgmorton/ So we have....two people in favor of your recommendation so far,and three
people opposed. I don't know what John and Pauline think.
Thomas/From what I'm hearing, I think your concern of transportation and affordable housing,
we have reserves....we have reserves in various location where if something should arise,
we can pull from it. I...I think, you know, I....I do believe this Council has....social
justice issues at the forefront. So I'm not concerned that should something arise that we'll
pay attention to it.
Throgmorton/ So that's basically a no. All right.
Taylor/While al....although I appreciate your sentiment and where it's' coming from, I think over
the past few years I've noticed that when there is something that we truly really want and
believe in, we've been able to, uh,thanks to Dennis and....and other City staff, uh, to be
able to figure out how we're going to fund it and we have come up with that and so I
think we just continue the way we have and....with what we have, although it's an
excellent idea.
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Throgmorton/Okay, are there any other suggestions, with regard to the budget? Okay, hearing
none, uh, the next item is clarification of agenda items. Course we've already gone
through the agenda, but there was at least one thing I wanted to very briefly mention.
Salih/Can I just suggest something?
Throgmorton/ Sure!
Salih/Because some people are waiting here for the (unable to understand)jump there and come
back to the rest of the agenda?
Throgmorton/Oh....okay! We could do that. I don't see why not. I know people have been very
patient, unbelievably patient actually! (laughter) Good grief! (several talking) Urn, on
my notes anyhow! This would be in the information packet, of the....Item 9 of the
January 19a'...17th (several talking) information packet,right? Okay, I'm trying to get
there....Item 9 (mumbled) Okay, Item 8.....(mumbled) (several talking) Okay! Yeah,
so...I know staff needs direction on this, so....Simon, are you going to summarize what's'
being recommended?
Information Packet Discussion:
Andrew/Absolutely!
Throgmorton/All right, please do.
Andrew/First of all, uh, well, Simon Andrew,Assistant to the City Manager. Uh, why this is
becoming....coming before you now is the current permits run through April 30th, uh, so
if we do wanna change City code or revisit the program broadly, uh, we'll wanna get the
code change done by then. So that's why we're looking for direction now. Uh, to break
down the recommendation into two separate pieces might make your decision a little bit
easier. Uh, first piece of it is recommending extending the four current permits,uh,
through 2019, through December 22nd, 2019. Which would, uh, put it after the, uh, fall
semester graduation. So getting the full semester in for this year's business, um, that
would not only give, uh, us more time to react,but would also,urn, take into account the
last phase of the ped mall project. We found that last year during the ped mall project,
finding space for the four current vendors was very challenging. Uh, so that's the first
piece of the recommendation. Uh, after that, uh, staff recommends that the program go
away after, uh, December 22nd of this year. Uh, vending started on the ped mall many
years ago. Uh, it was originally introduced as a venue for temporary vending, uh, they
were year-by-year permits, uh, it wasn't all food vendors. It was, uh, the goal of which to
create a more vibrant streetscape downtown, for more daytime vending options,um, and
initially staff regulated both the hours and menus of food carts downtown. We would
send staff out every afternoon to make sure that folks were vending and make sure that
their menus matched,uh, what was on their application. Again, the goal of which to give
more of that vibrant streetscape feel. Urn, what we've seen in the intervening years,
especially after we drew back from regulating hours and menus, um, we didn't, uh, find
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that it was a very efficient use of staff time to be going out there on a regular basis and
citing vendors. Uh, we found that they, uh, serve almost exclusively the late-night bar
crowd, and so it got very much away from the original intent of the program, uh,more of
that daytime,um, the streetscape vibrancy and more small business kind of get-your-foot-
in-the-door type of temporary opportunities,uh, to serving that bar crowd. Um, and we
have found also in those intervening years that a number of changes City Council has
made to the use of public space downtown really gets more at those, uh, original intents
of the program, um, such as the street cafes. Uh, there are food trucks allowed, uh,
downtown,not on the ped mall or directly adjacent to it, but,uh, certainly many more,
uh, vending opportunities in the intervening years. Uh, so that was the basis of staffs
recommendation, uh, we've dwindled from a peak of eight permits and we're down to
four, owned by two separate companies currently, uh, and so at the close of this three-
year permit cycle,uh, if we do intend to make changes,now's the time to do it. Uh, and
discuss that before the April 30th deadline of the current permits running up. One other
piece of background, we used to do these annually and we used to have many more
applicants than we had spots, uh, and uh....so it was really understood that this was year-
by-year,that you were not guaranteed a spot next year. Uh, what we found was, uh, in
2012 when we were going through that permit process, the City was sued by one of the
vendors who wasn't selected, uh, and we pulled seniority out of the decision making
process for reviewing applications. In exchange for pulling out seniority,um,
recognizing that there are upfront costs to starting this business, uh, we went from a one-
year to a three-year permit cycle, and we're very clear with vendors at that point that, uh,
there's no guarantee that after three years, uh, you will have a spot. This is public space
and City Council may choose to go a different route with it, uh, when they wish to. Uh,
so that's where we landed today, uh, at the end of the day, um, not meeting the original
intent of the program, um, some administrative costs, it can be burdensome to staff, and
also we wanna see the ped mall clear out after the bars close and,uh, not be policing
folks waiting in line. There are a number of other rationale in that memo and I'd be
happy to answer(both talking)
Throgmorton/ Sure, does anybody wanna ask Simon any questions?
Cole/Simon, I'm not buying the public safety rationale. Has there been one instance in which
there's been a problem associated with standing in line, I mean has there been any
assaults, and do we have specific data? How much time extra are people congregating by
reason of the food carts being present?
Andrew/Sure! Sure! And I don't wanna imply that there have been any, uh, public safety
incidents directly related to the carts.
Cole/Okay.
Andrew/I would say that it's ore broader issue that, um, a police officer policing the ped mall at
1:30, 2:00 A.M., where there are hundreds of people around would prefer those groups to
break off into smaller groups and either go home, go to restaurants, uh, go elsewhere and
not be standing on the ped mall,but no, I don't have any specific data as to minutes or
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numbers of people, but urn, I did speak to Chief Matherly about this and he echoed the
same thing, that urn, you know, we don't....we can't tie any specific incidents to this or
nor would we want to,but in general, after the bars close we want to see (both talking)
Cole/Wouldn't that then support us if we wanted to make...address that issue, to essentially have
the permit expire earlier, like 1:00?
Andrew/ Sure, and that's something....if we do wanna continue the program, that is a change
that,uh, I would recommend making. We do cut off the food trucks, I believe, at 9:00 or
10:00 P.M., urn, and that was the logic when we introduced the food truck program as
well, is that, urn, and not having that congregation of bar closes, uh, is the most desirable.
I would say that any one of the points in the memo can be corrected with a more minor
code amendment. I would say that overall in totality,urn, really we're not meeting the
intent of the program, and so therefore,urn, I think we should revisit it broadly rather
than extending three....three-year permits.
Salih/How long this food truck been going on?
Andrew/Uh, food carts on the ped mall, probably 20 years. I think that Grilled Cheese started
late-90s, 2000 (unable to hear response from audience, away from mic)
Salih/And during this 20 years, all the time they (mumbled)people mostly use 'em after....after
they get out, I guess, from clubs and they just...I guess restaurant will be closed and they
cannot find food, and they just go to this cart and buy food. I understand that the police
have a concern about people staying there, like a lot people, but have they done
something like really problem there? Uh....is the problem been reported, like....
Andrew/ Certainly again the problem in terms of that is not the food cart or their operations
whatsoever. Urn, and again, to Rockne's point, if we cut off the permits say at midnight,
uh, then that concern does go away. Uh, it's....it's more broadly that we don't want, urn,
hundreds of people in the ped mall after bar close. (both talking)
Salih/ ...most of their customer, I guess, would come after...after the bar, that's the time exactly
they make money. During that time. How come we gonna cut the hours, as long as it's
not really creating problem and.....we just was talking about the.....the......we need like,
uh, what it called? (unable to understand) for the people so they can cook there and sell
their food. We are even trying to make like more food cart, like I guess....like at the
Center for Worker Justice we have a project, it called like, uh (unable to understand) like
I guess owner of small business or something like that,where we will encourage people
to just cook if they are really good on that and just do like sell their food through a food
truck and something like....food cart I mean, and uh, we are really asking the City
Manager even to do.....I was trying to propose a licensed kitchen at the, you know, the....
the Creation Center, and after that we find out we can do that at Senior Center. All this
while we doing that because we wanna encourage the community to low-income people
to do that and just cook there and maybe sell their food, and....
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Andrew/Absolutely, and that was alluded to in the memo. What we haven't seen is this program
being used by new start-up small businesses, uh, looking to get a foothold in the market.
Uh, what we have seen is it's the same food carts, year after year, and not introducing a
new business. I....I think that, um, overall we've seen the most success with food carts
with our temporary use permits. Uh,there is a, uh, Mexican restaurant on the....Highway
6, I believe, that started as food cart and became a brick and mortar location (both
talking)
Salih/Yes!
Andrew/ ...we would like to see more of those temporary installations, the pop-ups, the, you
know, starting out at festivals, things like that, rather than, uh, the same, uh, cart using the
public space year after year.
Salih/But this is really coming down the road. I'm going to ensure you,because at the Center
for Worker Justice we have a campaign and we are doing that. We...we sent all those
people to the event that the City, I guess Tracy Hightshoe's had it at the Kirkwood
Community College, to teach the people how they can open their businesses, and one of
the option was a food cart, and all the people they come there by all this idea and they
said, 'Hey, they said we can start like small with a food cart.' You know, we....we just
like helping those people now to learn and to just, you know, uh, how to save money, to
budget this and everything.
Andrew/Absolutely!
Salih/ It's coming on the way, that's why I really want to see this program continue.
Taylor/That's what I was going to ask Simon is what are we doing as a City to reach out to...to
new businesses? How do they know that's even a possibility(both talking)
Andrew/Sure! Absolutely! That was a strong focus of the Building Business Basics. They get a
lot of interest from folks lok....looking to start restaurants, or food carts. Urn, the main
way that we see food carts throughout the City use, outside of the ped mall vendors, is
through temporary use permits. So you'll see them in parking lots, you know, this is
when somebody sells produce say out of a truck, sweet corn, that's temporary use permit.
Um, the, uh, the restaurant, the Mexican restaurant that I mentioned started as a food cart,
uh, that operated, um, I believe from Hy-Vee's parking lot maybe. Um, but that,uh,
program will continue, and that's where we have seen some success with people starting
new small businesses. (mumbled) we just noted the Grilled Cheese cart has been on the
ped mall for, you know, 20 years and we haven't seen that being used by new businesses
getting into the market, nor have we seen that move into a...a permanent location. So I
think there are better ways, whether it's the temporary use permit that we will still
continue to have, uh, special events, other ways to....to make that happen, to encourage
those small businesses.
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Taylor/When we were, uh, debating about having the, uh, food trucks, we heard a lot from the
brick and mortar restaurants,but I mean to hear that these food carts have been
downtown for over 20 years and....and to my knowledge we haven't heard from any of
these brick and mortar places, and how...how many of them are open even late night
for....for people to be able to get something, cause that's where I see the advantage of it
is, uh, it's....it's an affordable option for....for people to grab food, and uh, as a healthcare
provider, if somebody's been drinking a lot of alcohol, I think we want them to eat
something. We want them to have food to eat, and if there aren't any options, uh, then
what are they supposed to do, so....
Andrew/Absolutely! We used to get much more pushback on this program from downtown
businesses, uh, we don't....in recent years, as you noted, there aren't that many kitchens
open past midnight. Uh, one,uh, thing that was also alluded to in the memo, uh, is more
of a long-term concern, uh, since we went to the eating, drinking establishment, uh, 500-
foot rule is that,uh, new restaurants coming into the downtown must choose to either
serve alcohol and close at midnight or not serve alcohol and stay open till bar close. And
so we've seen a couple of restaurants choose on either side of that,uh, in recent years and
the fear is that over time that incentive will be to close at midnight and sell alcohol.
Those are the ones that we witness staying open, whereas some of the ones that chose not
to serve alcohol,um, weren't able to survive. (both talking)
Throgmorton/ I know there are other people who want to speak to this topic, uh,why don't we
ask them if they want to come up and speak and then if we need to ask Simon other
questions we can do that afterwards. Good evening. What....what patience you have!
Pretty astonishing! (several talking and laughing) You guys gotta speak into the
microphone. Please say your first names (several talking)
Paterno/I'm Mark Paterno with Marco's Grilled Cheese, George's Gyros, Pacos Tacos.
Johnson/Uh, Pete Johnson, the same. Co-owner of the same (mumbled)
Paterno/ So I just wanna touch on, so when we started in 2000 with Marco's Grilled Cheese, the
City had their requirements of bein' out there during lunch and then certain nighttime
hours. We always abided by those. We never wanted to get off that lunch. The....the
City allocated a daytime spot and a nighttime spot, and we just pushed the cart to both. I
don't know why,but on one end of the ped mall they would buy at lunchtime, the
customers, in the evening they wouldn't. That's just how it worked. So when the City
lifted that requirement to, um, to have to be out there during the day, they also decided
only to give us one spot, so we didn't have that option of two anymore. We never wanted
to stop lunches. In fact I reach out to the City probably every year, asking again, 'Can we
go back out to our old day spot, um, so we can be out there during lunches and not lose
money.' It all boils down to losing money or not losing money. Our windows, to make a
living in this business, you know,we don't write the rules. We just have to react to the...
to the truths—are those busy rushes, I mean that's....that's just the way it is. Um, if you
take that away, I mean, even at midnight, I mean, it's not feasible to...to survive on...on
two hours, you know, 8:00 RM. to midnight, I mean we wouldn't have a chance.
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Johnson/And we've tried (mumbled) last 20 years the City's moved, uh, the City has, uh, tried
different things. We've been on Iowa Avenue, we've been on a couple different places.
We tried over by kind of Joe's Place, in that area, but it just hasn't been the same. There's
nothing that can replace that kind of rush of people that come out of those bars, urn, in the
late-night hours. We're still very much out during the day. I mean we still do Arts Fest,
Jan Fest, we do Gay Pride, we do, uh....uh, concert after, I'm sorry, Concert Series, um,
we do any special event, basically, that comes through town. So still very much out there
during the day. We'd like to be out there for the, uh,the lunch crowd,but where we're at,
uh, kinda in front of Brothers is where we're kinda stationed right now is very much a bar
scene, with the patios that they've replaced, with I think are great. The restaurant patios.
Urn, but that's'....that's taken whatever lunch business was in that area, which is pretty
dead during the day, if you've ever walked down there. Well it's'better now with the
patios, urn, is....is just not enough business to justify being out there. So it's not that we
don't wanna do that. It's just that,uh...uh, the revenue doesn't justify it and if there are
people down there,we're down there, you know, we're out there. If there are people there
to buy food, we're out there, but um,just like any other business, I mean it's....a lot of the
restaurants aren't open Monday,Tuesday, Sunday, you know, for a reason. There's no one
there to sell food to, you know, so we can look pretty, um, but there's just not much, uh,
it's not survivable, uh, you know, it's still tough.
Paterno/Just to clarify, George's Gyros was started by George Mihalopoulos in 1984. Prior to
that there was a popcorn cart. Do you guys remember that at all? So I mean
we're....we're talking about 40 years really of food carts, or of carts, semi-permanent, and
the popcorn cart I remember was kind of a permanent fixture.
Johnson/And the reduction of permanence is really been....that's not been at our behest. It's
been over time the City has reduced those, um,permits, and there was a time when you
had so many people, um, you had so many vendors kinda fighting over. It was a burden
on the City I think for a while,but it's been many, many years since it's been that way and
the City over time has basically taken those opportunities away....the opportunities you
were talking about with, uh, you know, people coming in and starting businesses, and
moving to brick and mortar, uh, type situation. When you've reduced it down to four and
basically what we did,just naturally through attrition, these people retired. We
took....we bought their business, um,the two...the two other carts that we own, besides
Marco,we simply bought because they were going to just throw them away. So I mean
the idea was out there, we took it, we bought it. We didn't mean to have some kind of
crazy monopoly on carts. When they reduced the permits down to four, it made it look
like that. Um, so, urn, it wasn't necessarily something that we did. This was something
that the City very much, over time, eliminated the permits and then took away the day
spots. So that's why this memo's'kind of frustrating to us, because it's...it seems to say,
'Well, this program was kind of disintegrated into this and it doesn't serve the original
purpose,' when in reality the, you know, the....the City, I'm not throwing anybody under
the bus. There's been multiple, uh, City Managers over time, have....have kind of slowly
but surely kind of whittled it away on their own and we can't figure out why.
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Patemo/And just to clarify, it went from five carts, or permits total in 2000 when we started.
Then they expanded to eight, and then they've since retracted back. They being the City.
Johnson/And originally as the plan was proposed to us, it was more of a....it was more character
and,um, kind of a uniqueness to Iowa City, and you know, if you go to any city, my
favorite's Philadelphia where you have Philly cheese steak sandwiches after...at dark.
Um, you know, a part of your city got the day side character of your city, and then you've
got, in my mind, every good city's got a vibrant nightlife, with unique stuff, right? And
food carts are always a part of that. Every time I go to Philly I go and get a cheese steak
sandwich after...after dark and, you know, I challenge you to find anybody in
Philadelphia that doesn't think that's a vibrant part of their culture. It makes them unique.
It makes them different than just kind of every other bland city out there. So I....I, to say
that there's, uh, you know, we've....we've kind of moved away from that and there's really
no purpose to it, to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean it's, you know, we're a
20-year, I mean not to brag about us, but you go anywhere, um, you know, I travel all
over to airports all over the, you know, world and I wear my Marco shirt on purpose and I
see people come up to me and they're like, 'Oh my god, I love Marco's! You know, it's
amazing, that's awesome. I was there in Marco's' in Iowa City and hit Marco's every
night after the bars for the four years I was there,' so this is really spread out as we've had,
uh, 20 years of University of Iowa students coming through. We joke that we're now as
old as the youngest....we're older than the youngest freshmen coming in, uh, to the
University and so, um, that's gotten around so to say that that kinda means nothing
was....was kind of painful to (both talking)
Cole/Didn't you guys start this in college too?
Johnson/Yeah, I was a sophomore, Mark was a(both talking)
Cole/You were under-capitalized and this was a good opportunity to start a business with
virtually nothing.
Johnson/Yeah,we borrowed the $7,000 from my parents at like 10%interest(laughter) and we
paid it back in our first year, which was amazing, and so we've always wanted to go to a
brick and mortar,uh, operation. You know, we just,um, you know we just never knew if
it,uh, whether this id...whether this concept could really support it. We'd love to do that.
Mark still tries to talk me into it about every year, but um...um, and you never know, we
may do it. We may just copy...uh, trademark Marco's this year because a bar in, uh,
Chicago, uh, was selling the Marco's Grilled Cheese, it was an Iowa City bar, and first I
thought about sending them a cease and desist but then I kinda realized it was a
compliment more than anything, but um...uh, you know...I can't remember where I was
going....(mumbled)train of thought. But, um, anyway, yeah, to say that it's not, urn, you
know, it's not, um, you know, a part of the Iowa City culture to me is not....not seein' the
whole picture, you know, and uh, Simon's argument about, uh, you know,uh, you know,
somehow we're diggin' in to the bars' food revenue and because of that they're opting to
sell booze instead,to me doesn't really hold a whole lot of water, cause if you were to
take all of our revenue, what we make, and I'm happy to show you what we make, um,
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and divvy it up amongst the 10 or 15 bars in there, it would barely pay a month's rent, I
mean we're just not....we're not cuttin' into them enough. You'd be better taking
Panchero's out, right. Panchero's and Jimmie John's,um, and McDonald's, as opposed to
us. So, urn, that's a little bit perplexing, so....um......yeah, I've got, I mean I could stand
up here for four hours and explain this to ya and I tried to get some of these points to ya
too but we just found out about this. We were kind of shocked because we just found out
about this Thursday night. I was on my way to a....a vacation with my family, and so I
was kind of writing this up in hotel rooms and in the car on the way, and talking to you
guys at the same time. Um, so we....we haven't had a chance to give you all the
information here,but uh, happy to answer any more questions (mumbled)
Paterno/I wanna chime in too, um...when the City went from one-year permits to three-year
permits, I was never given any indication that the program might stop. Urn, Jann is who I
was dealing with at the time, and really, I mean I have all the....all the letters and emails
from her and the City,but I mean it was...it was simply a procedural change from one-
year to three-years. We had no idea that the program, I mean there's always
modifications to the program, and we've always adjusted to whatever the City has
wanted, essentially, but we had never any indication that anybody might wanna kill the
whole program(both talking)
Johnson/And to the contrary, we had been asked (mumbled)which we...which we do time to
time. When we owned our taxi company, we owned Marcos Taxi as well, and we'd, uh,
the City would bring us in, and we, which we appreciate, would bring us in, and uh, ask
us, you know, what's the best way to do this. You guys been doin' this the longest so
what's the best way to do this. So they did the same thing when they were doin'the big
ped mall construction project, and so we came in and we, you know, we talked about
power requirements and where the carts were going to be and all this stuff so naturally in
our minds we'd already been approved for the three years. They're askin'us about the
future of the ped mall and our place in it, you know, we're kinda thinking we have a place
in it. So it was....it was a huge shock to us when, you know, we got to the, um,you
know, we got the call Thursday night that, 'Hey, real sorry but you don't really fit the plan
anymore. We're probably going to be done with ya,' and uh, you know, so....which we
didn't quite understand. So....
Throgmorton/Okay, I think we f illy....fully understand this is really important to you. Let us...
let us talk about it and maybe we'll ask you questions again, maybe we'll ask Simon. I
don't know. So, uh, who has a point of view here?
Cole/Ido!
Thomas/I would like to ask if...if at all possible, you know, I don't know this nighttime scene
downtown (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/Well, John! (several talking and laughing)
Thomas/I know I'm really....it's a big thing that I'm missing, I get that, but uh.....
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Throgmorton/(mumbled) at once!
Thomas/ So I really would like to....I've not heard a word from the students on this issue, uh,
maybe you have.
Throgmorton/I think they have an opinion. Where are....there (both talking)
Stewart/Yeah, so um, I was hoping to put an opinion....out there! Um, at least talking to
students, um, seeing what their take on it is, um, cause as they said it was kind of a short
notice,Thursday to Tuesday, but um, at least talking to them, urn, generally speaking,
obviously I can't talk to everybody and anybody,just in my network,but uh, lot of people
enjoy, urn, having that option downtown. Um, they value it a lot, and part of it could be
the culture,um,that when you think about Iowa City, you think about these local
businesses and really placing inside the ped mall, um,but then at the same time, I heard
concerns regarding, um, kind of what Pauline said, uh, about if you don't have let's say
carbs or food,um, essentially carbs and food help with, uh, deterring some of the side
effects with overdrinking. So if any individual is drinking, um, that....having, um, those
food options easy and accessible, that's hopefully going to deter some of those
overdrinking consequences. Um, along with that, um, I think, urn, more of on a personal
note, if you have more people, that creates more vigilance. Um, this....the idea kinda like
that Jane Jacobs said about 'I am the street,' um, that when you have that visual aspect, it
can deter, urn, some of those potential public safety concerns, as well. Um, so kind of
looking at it from the other side, other perspective. Um, but generally speaking, urn, I
mean UIS“ I know, has put events in the past, uh, not events but like a stand to help
distribute pizza, the kind of...help with this dynamic of tryin' to, um,help other students
and individuals,urn, know to have carbohydrates when you're drinking and so forth.
Throgmorton/Yeah,just to spin off of what Gustave just said, I wanna introduce a couple
thoughts, urn, that are clearly relevant. One is, I'm not aware of any residents
complaining about the food carts. You know,just maybe some residents are upset about
them somehow,but I'm not aware of any complaints. Uh, I'm not aware of any
businesses complaining about the food carts. If there are, I need to know that. And then,
conversely, I....I would anticipate that there would be an outcry if the carts go away! So
that doesn't sound like a good mix of things to me. Just getting' it out there as a, you
know, part of our conversation.
Cole/ I'm not only opposed to closing down the food carts, I actually think to your point, we need
to look at expanding these vending opportunities and reevaluating this program, because I
think to Maz's point, I look at this as micro-entrepreneurship. And the fact that you guys
are now 40-something, I think only demonstrates what we're hoping to achieve is that
there will be a college student, or one of the people that, you know, Maz is working with
or whomever, that is gonna have this opportunity at micro-entri....entrepreneurship.
Now, we are very aware of the structural costs of the brick and mortar. We would very
much wanna monitor closely if we expanded it, um, where we wanna make sure it
wouldn't adversely affect that,but to your point, if we're looking at the aggregate
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purchasing of these bricks and mortars, and we're looking at the impact of a food cart,
we're talking about a relatively de minimis impact, especially with the timeframes that
we're talking about. So, for me, I want to keep what we have now, unchanged, and I also
want to look at this concept of what we do during the day, because I do think we need to
look at opportunities for micro-entrepreneurship, and most importantly—access to
downtown. It's extremely expensive to access our downtown business market. Lot of the
downtown bricks and mortars have earned that, over time, and I don't wanna take that
away from it. I want to be very limited. But I think we need to look at that. So I would
actually like to expand,um,what we're doin'. So maybe you guys'll be mad at us, cause
we'll add competitors to ya (laughter)um,but that's where I am at this point.
Teague/I think for me, uh, of course (laughs)bein'here for 25 years, went to the University of
Iowa, and many of my friends come back and, you know, the places that they wanna go is
gonna be Airliner, it's gonna be the Vine, and it's gonna be,um, def...definitely for some
gyro. Uh, what they learn is sometimes back then when they were drinkin', you know,
food was really,really good. Now they realize that one, they can't stomach some of the
stuff(laughs) like they used to, and then things probably wasn't that good, although your
food is good (laughter) What I will say is this, um (laughter) when we're talkin' about
safety issu...safety, urn, any issues or complaints, um, I, you know, I even read about
special events, I feel like all of that stuff can be resolved. Um, one of the things, and I...
that's what I was gonna talk about, relookin' at this program, urn,because when I hear
that we went from eight down to fi...four, is that correct?
(female)/Yes.
Teague/So with that, there is limited opportunity for other individuals, and so I think that that's
somethin'where, um, whether we increase it, and if we increase it, you know, let's say we
increase it back to eight, urn, we need to make considerations for(mumbled) if there's
eight people that are all now, you know, interested,but there's a ninth person and we have
four own...we have one owner ownin' four things, how do we do that, you know,
monopoly? And....and make it, you know, give opportunity to people. So I mean I am
willin' to relook at this. I'm not sayin' eight is where we need to be,urn, I appreciate staff
bringin'this to us. Uh, for me, you know, I...I don't know that I'm gonna recommend
makin' changes right now.
Fruin/Can I make one....a couple quick comments, cause I think it's important to get in front of,
uh, one issue in particular. We've scaled down intentionally. We've scaled....we started
that strategy probably 2014, 2015, knowing that the ped mall construction was coming
and knowing there would be constraints. So we haven't filled some of those permits
because of that. We experienced some of that pinch-point last year. We had a lot of
conversations with food carts, our staff did, about placements, because of construction
displacement, and it's going to be another issue this coming year,because the area that
they wanna be is going to be the one that's under construction. Um, it....you know, I'd
encourage you....if you wanna continue the program, that's great! We'll...we'll do it. We
felt it was our obligation to come to you and say'this is an extremely, uh, labor-intensive,
uh, administrative, uh...um, program to manage. Our staff that manages this is oftentimes
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frustrated in dealing with, um...um, a lot of questions that come in, whether it's from
neighboring businesses that have concerns about placements, about carts that wanna shift
placements, about carts that want dual placements in different....it gets a lot more
(laughs)urn, intense than what it...what it appears. You know, it sounds like it's just kind
of on auto; urn, it's not, and....and that's why we're here talkin' about that. But, if you all
wanna continue it, that's fine! We can do that. Urn, as you look to expand the program,
you can expect you're gonna double-down on some of those challenges. We....we
weren't....we aren't restricting things because we have the....we have something against
food carts. It's because there's legitimate problems that come up and...and....and we've
had trouble managing those problems! So, I'm okay with....I know what the sentiment is
on this issue and I'm okay with that, urn, but I just want you to know what our intent is all
along. It sounds like we've been intentionally trying to slowly bleed and close this thing
out. That's not the case. We were preparing for a construction progress,uh,proc...uh,
project, and then as we took a holistic look at this thing, um, coming into the new permit
cycle, we just said there's concerns in four, five different areas. Maybe it's time to move
on.
Salih/Um, I really respect what you said, I understand it,but even that wasn't one of the reason
on your memo, and the thing that you just said right now, I don't see it in your memo.
And...I don't know why....if it's really important should be there, that defer thing.
Second thing, I really think this is really important program, even though now with the
construction you can find a way for them to do it, because this is....how long it gonna be
the construction there?
Fruin/It'll be all of next year.
Salih/Okay, uh, I don't know, do you know where you're gonna stand if....with the construction,
I guess? (unable to hear response, away from mic)
Throgmorton/If...if you're gonna speak,please come up to the....
Salih/Yeah!
Johnson/So that....that was kind of a big deal for us last year, because we, you know, we had
to...we....we had to go through that construction period, and any time you have that, you
can ask any of the bars around how that affected them as well, but I mean we went, you
know,we went in the red. We drew on credit lines to get through that. That was one of
our worst years and we were fine with that, thinking that we had a future,um,but
then....then when we kinda made it all the way through that, spent all that money just
trying to survive, uh,being bottled in like that, which was fine. We understood it, you
know, it's a better ped mall now for sure,but um, you know, uh, and then to get yanked at
the very end. That was tough to deal with but I...I, you know, we're more than happy, and
I told Geoff this in our, in one of the meetings....we actually called a meeting to try to
figure some of those things out that you're asking. I said, hey, if any major changes are
coming down the pike where you're thinking of making changes to this program, urn, you
know,we're happy to come in. We'd like to be part of that conversation, and so that's
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why we were a little surprised to see this memo come out, because nobody's....nobody's
brought any of these things to us. They haven't said anything about the security. They
haven't said anything about these are the struggles we're gonna have, and we're happy to
take the lead on that, I mean we're happy to get, there's....and there's only two of us
really. There's Bon Me and us, so we're talking about two individuals right now, and we'd
be fine expanding that, and if more people come into it, you know, we'd be happy to take
the lead on that and, uh, you know, make sure that this is an easier transition, where
they're not havin'to struggle so much with in-fighting between vendors,because a little
bit of that did happen, you know, back in the..the early stages of the program when you
had a lot of people, and when they were regulating menus and stuff like that, where
people were getting angry that somebody was selling somebody else's food and so I can
understand that. Last five to eight years, I mean, there's really been two people to work
with here, so I don't know how much of a struggle two people, two parties, uh, really
could be. So, but we're happy to do anything, you know, that....that it would take to
alleviate that, if that's an issue, for sure.
Throgmorton/ Okay, we can talk about this for a long time, uh,but we don't want to (several
talking and laughing) I....I think I (several talking) clear sentiment to continue the
program.
Salih/Yes!
Throgmorton/I think I hear a desire on your part to work with the staff to try to resolve some of
these staff, administrative kinds of issues.
Johnson/Without a doubt!
Throgmorton/Am I missing something?
Mims/I think(several talking) I think the only other thing potentially is in the next three years,
with them being renewed, is...at some point in that time to have maybe more conversation
at the Council level, with staff, about do we expand? Do we not? What are some of the
drawbacks, you know, with the changes in the ped mall? Can we...do we really have
room for more than four? So I think just having those conversations before we get to the
end of that three.
Taylor/Just one final note I just wanna make....when I first heard it I thought,well,three of the
four are the same owner, but hearing your story tonight I wanna commend you, because
you know to pick up those ones that were just going to disappear, you know, then we
would of only had two and then I might have some second thoughts about this, is it
worthwhile to have it, but I....but I see you as very respectable business and...and,uh,
providing safe,healthy food, so....
Johnson/Thank you, that's very kind. (several talking)
Throgmorton/Okay, thank you.
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Johnson/Thank you very much!
Throgmorton/ So I think, uh, you know, it's pretty damn late and (laughter) we need to finish this
discussion (laughter) I think we have two topics we need to address. One is the traffic
collision analysis, and I think that'll take just a few minutes. (laughter) I thought I'd
inject a little humor there! And the other is the, uh, proposed resolution about the Labor
Center. So, let's get the traffic collision analysis out of the way first and, so that's IP#8.
Staff desires direction on this. Uh, it's a very interesting report. I hope y'all have read it.
There's a lot of detail in there about where collisions occur most frequently at
intersections and in mid-block on....and it's....it's clearly almost entirely about Highway
1, Highway 6, Riverside....well, Riverside Drive is Highway 6, isn't it? And...and little
bit on Mormon Trek, but mainly Highway 1 and Highway 6! Uh, so.....what do you need
from us, Kent?
Ralston/Good evening, Kent Ralston,Transportation Planner. Uh, MPO Director as well. So,
yeah, briefly, um.....I......I don't know that we need anything from you,to be honest.
Urn, that question remains,but you know, we've done this analysis for the entire metro
area as part of the MPO for a number of years. This was specifically asked for by the
Council as part of your strategic plan,um,just for Iowa City, for the years 2015 through
2017. As you mentioned, Mr. Mayor, you know,primarily where you see the high
collision corridors are where the most vehicles are. It's just logical. Urn, what we do
with it in turn is staff takes this and actually looks into the top-rated collision areas and
sees what kind of countermeasures we can use and employ in trying to lessen the number
of collisions. In a nutshell,that's what we do. Um, that said, I don't know that we need
anything from you. I think it was to make sure that you all had what you needed as part
of your strategic plan, and then I think as part of one of the pending work session,uh,
items there was a, sort of a....to be a joint meeting I think between, uh, Dr. Plummert, I
think(both talking) not sure, um, from the University, as well as an update on this. Um,
that said, I'm....if there's nothing else the Council needs, staff will continue on regardless
and I'm sure you have other things to,uh, discuss at work sessions.
Throgmorton/Yeah, so I'd like to suggest that staff reach out to Professor Plummert, uh, so that
she can participate in, uh, a work session discussion about this. She can provide us with
an update on her research and then...and participate in our conversation. It seems to me
it'd be best to do this in February or March. So....if we can shoot for that, that'd be great.
Try to get her onboard.
Thomas/I....I just have a couple of comments that I....I'd like to make. Um, you know, I think
it's...it is interesting to see this, this is sort of at the....you know,the highway scale
aspects of our transportation systems. Um, you know, nine of the 10 highest ranking
streets are all State-designated, um, so that's...it's sort of at the middle level in that regard,
um, there....and there isn't really any discussion that I could see regarding pedestrian and
bike safety. This was really about tra....car....car on car collisions.
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Ralston/Right. What...and what it does is it looks at every intersection and mid-block in the
municipal boundaries that have three or more collisions.
Thomas/Right.
Ralston/We chose three or more cause it's a pattern, so to speak.
Thomas/Right. So...so,you know, I....I would emphasize, and I think this is where Professor
Plummert comes in, you know,her....her focus is on pedestrian safety,particularly with
regard to children, because of their....their different cognitive abilities and how that
affects their...their ability to safely interface with....with traffic. Um, so I think that
should, I mean, all of these streets that we've identified, which tend to be corridors, uh,
with....with high traffic, typically I would say they're....they're streets with, uh, more
than one lane in each direction, basically, which is one of the big issues that we face.
Urn, because of the....what that does in terms of, urn, accelerating traffic. That, um, if...
if possible it seems like it would be really useful to have that pedestrian and bicycle
aspect...factored into this, because all of these corridors are basically major barriers to
anyone walking or bicycling. You know,the....the folks living south of Highway 6, you
know, that's a problem. (laughs) You know, we don't have interstates, but we have...
meaning freeways running through our city,but these State highways are the next worst
thing.
Ralston/Yeah, so....so, um, yeah, so we....we looked at bicycle and pedestrian data and we have
that collision data. The issue with that data is while there may be 100 bicycle accidents
last year, the thing is that number is so small and the accidents are so sporadically sort of
dispersed around....around the city is that there's no real trend. Urn, what you'll see, of
course,just like we see on the major highways is where we see our....our high accident
locations for vehicles, the downtown sort of grid area, which is also, uh, you know,
shared with the University of Iowa, is where we see most of the bicycle accidents. But
again,when you have one or two here and there, sort of sporadically dispersed around the
community, it's hard for us to sort of react to that and try to find a solution to it.
Thomas/Well I guess my feeling is you may not find...data at the level of a collision, but these
intersections that occur along these corridors are unsafe for, partly because we know the
traffic flows and their speeds, uh, you know, the volumes and their speeds are going to
have an impact on pedestrians and bicyclists, that we would want to consider how to
address those intersections along these corridors, if possible. And then the other(both
talking)
Throgmorton/John, I don't wanna cut you off, but can I please?
Thomas/ I had one more comment. Okay?
Throgmorton/ Okay,but you know we're gonna revisit this topic in another(both talking)
Thomas/ ...in terms of preparing for this meeting, I just wanted to mention(both talking)
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Throgmorton/Be brief, please!
Thomas/Yeah! Urn, in terms of the (laughter)potential countermeasures, I just...I was a little bit
flabbergasted to see that under roadway design inadequacies, widening the lanes was one
of the remedies (laughs) I mean...so I'll just leave it at that, urn, there're 50-some odd, you
know, in Speck's new book, about half of them relate to speed. That....that's the core
issue.
Ralston/It is the core issue. One thing I would say, uh, and I sort of hold this back from time to
time, is that, you know, for every, urn, for every request I'd say that we get in our office
for slowing traffic and calming traffic, we probably get an equal number of requests from
folks wanting to remove parking and increase speeds and, uh, coordinate signal cycles so
they can drive faster. So you know we've got this push/pull in our office,but certainly, I
mean, safety is the key element.
Thomas/Safety, yeah.
Taylor/Jim, I just wanna quickly thank Simon for providing us with all that data, cause the
numbers certainly weren't very surprising but it....it does (several talking)
Throgmorton/You'll...that report will be part of our, uh, the discussion we have in several weeks.
Ralston/Thank you.
Throgmorton/Thank you for your patience too! Okay, let's turn to Item, uh, IP#6, the....on the
January 17th information packet, the proposed resolution submitted by Mazahir about the
U of I Labor Center. So let me begin by stating a fact, and uh, I'm going to get into it by
saying I was brought up a Catholic. So, for those of you who know what Catholics do,
they make confession, and so when you walk into confession, this is literally true. You
go behind a door, there's a priest behind a screen (laughs) it's all dark, and then you say,
'Father, forgive me for I have sinned. It's been, I don't know, 27 years since my last
confession(laughter) and I must admit,' and this is what I'm gonna tell ya, we had a
discussion many....no, not many. A few months ago, about the Labor Center, and you
directed me to write a letter to the President about it, expressing our view and our support
for the Labor Center. I did not do that, and I didn't do it, I did not do it....first because I
was swamped with other stuff at...right after the meeting. Secondly, time passed, I forgot.
Thirdly, I thought the decision was already resolved in time...more time had already
passed. None of those are good excuses, but it is a fact. So....now we have a proposal to
do a...um, a resolution, and....I wanna suggest a different procedure. I mean I understand
the motivation. Uh, we could either issue a, um, a...I could either read a proclamation,
which conveys the essence of what we want to say, or I can really write a letter and really
send it. I don't think a resolution would (mumbled) be the appropriate thing, but if we
write a....if we do either a proclamation or a letter, I think it's really important that we not
explicitly criticize the President of the University or tell him what to do. Partly because I
personally have to work with the President of the University on several topics of mutual
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interest to the University and the City of Iowa City, and I don't want....I think it's really
not wise to disrupt that relationship. Um....moreover, we're not an advocacy
organization. We are one of many governmental units in the city. So what I would like to
suggest is that we....either....have me read a proclamation or write a letter that
expresses....all the things we admire about what the Labor Center has done. All sorts of
positive information about the Labor Center. But...then not...not do the other things I
mentioned.
Salih/And you said why is not resolution?
Throgmorton/Well a resolution is a particular, um....um, tool we can use. One of you could help
me on this. What's the formal rationale for issuing a resolution versus a proclamation,
Eleanor?
Dilkes/Well for one thing a proclamation, we read proclamations without a vote of the City
Council. Um, so they can be submitted and read. Urn, a resolution is something that is
voted on by the City Council, um, so....the City Council is gonna have to, everybody's
gonna have to agree, or four of your are going to have to agree with that for it to pass.
Um...resolutions are typically....I mean you can use 'em for all sorts of things and we do
use 'em for all sorts of things. They tend to be more to make something happen that you
have control over, to approve a contract, um, to put a policy in place, that kind of thing,
but it can be used for this purpose, if that's something that the Council wants to vote on.
Cole/I do want to do a resolution and here's why. Urn, that the proclamation is just sort of a
statement by the Mayor that does not represent our judgment as a body. It does not
reflect our view, uh, to the....the University of Iowa President as to what should happen
to the Labor Center. Um, I agree with you 98%of the time. We are different bodies, we
wanna tread very carefully with our other partners, and there's no greater partner in the
City of Iowa City than the University of Iowa, which we love, you know, go Hawks,
right? Urn,but this is such a critical issue, I mean I'm very passionate about it, not just
because I have enormous respect for every one, but I literally think that lives are on the
line if they close. I'm serious. I think sexual harassment is on the line if they close. I
think training. The training that the Labor Center does is absolutely critical for safety
education, labor enforcement, working conditions that they train throughout the state.
And so the fact that this could be closed, I think would not only impact direct community
members that are part of labor movements, and even just everyone who has a job,but I
think people throughout the state, and I know it makes them feel uncomfortable, and I
know potentially he may feel uncomfortable,but I think given the fact that they've made
the decision to make us feel uncomfortable and unsecure and unsafe and a lot of our
residents unsafe, we need to do the resolution! It will make them uncomfortable,but we
all sit here in a very comfortable position as upper middle class people that are not
directly beneficiaries of this,um, at least directly. So I think we have to do it, and if you
decide it's unwise policy, you can vote no! You know, we could have a divided Council
on this,but I think we need to stand and support it.
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Mims/My preference is, I mean we decided a few months ago, I think we talked about a
resolution at that point in time and the letter and the decision at that point was the letter.
So while it didn't get done, I...would suggest we go back and do what we had previously
decided, and that is the letter.
Taylor/And I...I agree with that, and I mean it's common knowledge that I, uh, I'm a union
member and have been for over 20 years. I've also actually been a supporter of, uh,
organized labor for over 35 years, and during that time I've come to know the Labor
Center staff and seen first hand the benefits of the education they provide,uh, it's much
more than just about unions, as Rockne had hinted about. It's about the health, safety, and
well-being, uh, of every working individual, uh, in...in the state, as well as folks come
from all around the Midwest to take classes there, and it's also beneficial to the employer,
um,but...what we need to do, to point out, I don't think we need a lot of rhetoric. I, as I
told ya, I think....very well written, uh, Mazahir, but I think it is lengthy and it doesn't
really get the point across, uh, the feeling that...that we have that we urge them, uh,
to....to support the....that we support the Labor Center and we urge them to....to
reconsider their decisions about,uh, the furloughs and the decreased funding. So...but I
just, I don't think we need a lot of rhetoric as in a very long resolution, but I am
supportive of the Labor Center and supportive of us saying something to the University
about it.
Salih/I really support the resolution and now to your point, Jim, that we work with the
University. We, yes we work with the University and like we need the University and the
University need us too. We are not like starting like fight or demanding them,hey, if you
don't like make the Labor Center, leave the Labor Center open, that mean the City of
Iowa City's not going to do any work with you. No! We are not saying. We just laying
our value, that what we see, we know the Labor Center is been helping a lot people,
improving the life of lot people in this community. Iowa City's growing. We have a lot
of refugees. We have a lot of immigrant coming in. The Labor Center been teaching
classes about the right in work place, discrimination, wage theft, every single thing really,
you know, they been providing that and I think the solution will be strong. At the same
time it's not like saying anything that,uh, give them the impression that,hey, we want
you to do that. If not we are not like doing anything with you anymore. No! We just
laying out value, and even if at the end of the day they decide to close the Labor Center,
we still gonna work with the University, you know, this is have nothing to do with like
really, you know, like, uh,making that relationship bad or anything. And by the way, if
you don't know, the Student Government, uh, is really passing the resolution by like 77%.
They also (unable to understand) the University to do the same thing. And I (mumbled)
Throgmorton/Make sure I'm clear about this, I....I don't have any objection whatsoever to...
issuing a document. It could be a resolution. It could be a proclamation. It could be a
letter...expressing how much we value the Labor Center and what good work they have
done. I'm just saying I personally don't think it's wise to explicitly call out the President
and criticize him, and tell him what to do. I think that's a mistake, but expressing all the
things we value about the Labor Center, which implicitly says....support the Labor
Center(laughs) you know, I think that's the wiser thing to do.
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Stewart/ So I wanted to mention that yes, UI Student Government, uh, passed a resolution
because the Labor Center has been doing some amazing things. Um, I just wanted to also
mention, or...that, um,recognize that,um, the appropriations with the funds. So,uh, a
resolution or whatever is done that recognizes that this problem results from
appropriations,um, and that,um, also potentially talk to graduate students because
graduate students do the funding model, uh, graduate students are the ones that are being
paid since I'm not personally representing graduate students. We....we've had that
discussion. But yeah.
Teague/Resolution, letter....I.....when I look at this I.....I immediately think about things within
the world of disability,um, where the City of Iowa City coulda came and said some
things to the East Central Region, said some things to the State of Iowa, that impacts
local agencies personally. I....I think a letter would do it. A resolution would do it.
I...I'm not exactly sure, um, you know....is the argument over letter versus resolution, and
it sounds like people are saying a resolution is more, um, strong, urn, I'm.....I am hesitant
to, you know, um, give anything to the University that would be, you know, very
demanding. Although I'm not, urn, hesitant to, you know, um, give....give somethin' to
the University, um, in support of the Labor Center. I don't....personally, letter, resolution,
as long as we get the point across.
Cole/ So you agree with the resolution then (several talking) What if Jim were to then write the
resolution,but take away some of the language you had objection to. So you indicated
you weren't objecting to it, so that way we could speak as a body. You'd be more
diplomatic so you wouldn't have that concern.
Throgmorton/Gotta keep me onboard with regard to this. I'm happy to do that, but I will be
traveling tomorrow and Thursday and Friday and Saturday, and then come back on
Sunday. So.....this is the same thing that happened last time. I got swamped with some
other stuff and then, you know, time passed. So ,I'm not tryin'to excuse myself. It's just
a fact.
Cole/Or you could just excise the parts (several talking)
Salih/...tell us which one is not....
Throgmorton/Oh well...um.....
Thomas/I'd prefer not to get into that level of detail (several talking) I support (both talking) I
support the resolution. I think it's best, uh, for the Council to basically be the....the
voice, uh, and I think Jim should massage it. I think he would do a great job. It would
also be consistent with the Student Government, if they issued a resolution. So I think...I
think the resolution is the way to go. We're sort of....well we have some material here. It
just needs to be.....I think condensed and (both talking)
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Teague/I don't know if there's anyone else on the Council that would look at the resolution and
recommend somethin'to the Mayor, for a revision?
Cole/I'd be happy to.
Throgmorton/If....if you wanna do it.
Cole/I'll channel you, Jim. I'll make it diplomatic. (laughter) I will!
Throgmorton/That's okay with me!
Cole/Okay!
Throgmorton/And then we will collectively look at it, it's a resolution. We'll vote on it. Yeah.
All right, uh, it may well be that we should stop, unless somebody has something
incredibly important to bring up.
Teague/The only thing I would like to do is maybe, of course not talk about it now,but
definitely in the future, from the 17`s,uh, information packet. We got the, urn, from
MPO, Kent sent somethin'. Is it....
Fruin/It's in the 10'h. The regional transit(several talking)
Teague/Uh, 1P4. If we can just talk about that in the future.
Fruin/We'll put...I'll....we can repost that in the packet.
Teague/Thank you(several talking)
Salih/And are you gonna talk about the 17, back in...Item#10? I just have a one questions about
that. You know, the(unable to understand) activity I remember the woman who come
here and complain about that, and the...I....I read on the memo and they said that there
has been like, the City has been receiving many complaints about the same thing. I guess
my question would be what was the result of the complaint receiving regarding noise due
to the construction(unable to understand) I really would like to know that because we
need (both talking)
Fruin/I'd say we have very few complaints. I think that's what we were trying to convey in the
memo,that's there's only a few complaints per year that we get on the issue.
Salih/Okay, was the result of that, like did you reach out to those people who complain or you
just receive the complaint and that's (both talking)
Fruin/We'll talk with them, we'll explain the rules and regulations, and if we need to we can
reach out to the contractor and try to make sure, either the contractor's workin'within the
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bounds of those rules or at least they know that there's a concern, even if it is operating
within the rules. We ....we try our best to....mediate (both talking)
Salih/ ...nothing gonna be done about this, right?
Fruin/Not without your direction. (several talking)
Throgmorton/I don't think there's anything(several talking)
Salih/ ...make sure they receive something.
Throgmorton/Okay. I think that's it.
Fruehling/Council listening post.
Throgmorton/We don't need to talk about that tonight(several talking)
Fruehling/Yeah, we need to book the room. Monday, uh....February 11 t', from 5:30 to 7:00.
(several talking)
Fruin/We just need two Council Members, February 11th.
Salih/Where?
Fruehling/IMU (both talking)
Salih/ Oh, I said I am going to that one(several talking)
Fruehling/I think it was Maza and.....(several talking) as long as that date still works, cause at
the time (several talking) not good? I know they were pretty tight room-wise at the IMU.
Salih/What time?
Fruehling/ 5:30 to 7:00.
Salih/I think I can go, yeah.
Cole/That's Monday, February 11th.
Fruehling/Uh huh.
Cole/Okay.
Taylor/What about the KXIC schedule?
Fruehling/Um, I can repost that, if somebody wants to take February 6th (both talking)
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Taylor/ ....before our next meeting.
Throgmorton/Okay, any volunteer for February 6`n?
Froin/ Staffll do it! (laughter)
Throgmorton/Wow, there's an answer to that question. Okay, staffs gonna do (several talking)
Eleanor's gonna do it, right? (laughs) (several talking) Okay! I think....it's it! It's a
done thing.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2019.