HomeMy WebLinkAbout1990-09-04 Agenda
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IOWA CITY CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4,1990
7:30 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS, CIVIC CENTER
410 EAST WASHINGTON
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A.try
AGENDA J!,J ..)
IOWA CITY CITY COUNCIL ~)/..,
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING. SEPTEMBER 4,1990 I, I:
7:30 P.M. It It r
COUNCIL CHAMBERS ':l,d itA",...,
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ITEM NO.1, CALL TO ORDER.
ROLL CALL
ITEM NO.2, MAVOR'S PROCLAMATION.
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a. Housokooplng Wook, Soptombor 9-15,1990.
ITEM NO. ;), CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED
OR AMENDED.
a. Consldor approval 01 Olflclal Council Actions 01 tho rogular mooting
01 August 21, 1990, as publlshod, subloctto corroctlon, as rocom.
mondod by tho City Clork.
b, Mlnutos 01 Boards and Commissions.
(1) Human Rights Commission mooting 01 July 23, 1990.
(2) AIrport Commission mooting 01 July 17. 1990.
(3) Sonlor Contor Commission mooting 01 July 16, 1990.
(4) Board 01 Adjustmont mooting 01 August 6, 1990.
(5) Rlvorfront Commission mooting 01 July 10, 1990.
(6) Parks and Rocrootlon Commission mooting 01 July 25, 1990.
(7) Pollco and Flro Ponslon Rollromont Board mooting 01 July 31,
1990.
(0) Planning and Zoning Commission mooting 01 August 2, 1990.
(9) Animal Control Advlsory Board meeting 01 August 16, 1990.
c. Permit Motions and Resolutions as Recommended by the City Clerk.
(1) Consider a motion approving a Special Class 'C' BeeriWIno
Permll lor Hung Lam dba Saigon Reataurant, 209 N. Unn
Street. (renewal)
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Agonda
Iowa City City Council
Ragurar Council Mooting
Soplombor 4, 1990
Pago 2
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(2) Consldor a motion approvlng a Class 'B' Boor Pormll lor
Rlgol Corporation dba GOOlathor's Plua, 207 East Washing.
Ion Stroet. (ronowal)
(3) Consldor a motion approvlng a Class 'ee Boor Pormlt lor
000" Standard, Ino. dba Doo's Standard, Ino., SOt S.
Rivorsldo Drlvo. (ronowaQ
(4) Consldor a motion approvlng a Class '0' Uquor Uconso lor
Doadwood, Ino. dba Doodwood, 6 South Dubuquo Stroot.
(ronowaQ
(5) Consldor a motion approvlng a Class 'B' Boor Pormlt for Pan
Stylo Plua Corporation 01 Iowa dba Rocky Rococo, 1570
First Avonuo. (ronowal)
(6) Consldor a motion approvlng an Outdoor Service Area
application lor Plnoapplo Managomont Company dba Holiday
Inn.lowa City, 210 South Dubuquo Stroot. (ronowal)
(7) Consldor a motion approvlng a Class 'B' Boor Pormltlor
Sub.N.Brew, Inc. dba Tho Sub.N.Brow, t913 Broodway
Stroot. (now)
(0) Consldor rosolutlon to Issuo a clgarotto pormlt to 000"
Standard, SOl Rlvorsldo Drlvo.
Rosolutlons.
d.
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(t) Consldor a rosolutlon approvlng tho Olflclal Financial Roport
lor City Stroots and Parking Program Projoct Slatus Roport
lor tho fiscal yo or ondlng Juno 30, 1990.
Commont: Tho Iowa Dopartmonl 01 Transportation roqulros
all munlclpalltlos to submit thoso roports annually on or
boloro Soptombor 3D.
o. Corrospondonco.
(1) Momoranda Irom tho Tralflo Englnoor rogardlng:
(a) Parking prohibition on tho wosl sldo 01 Dovor Stroot
north 01 Muscatlno Avonuo.
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(1) Application Irom Lalln Amorlcan Human Rights Advocacy
Contor lor pormlsslon 10 sol up a table on City Plaza during
tho porlod 01 August 20 through 26, 1990, Irom which to
dlstrlbuto IIlerature and oller crans lor donallons. (approvod)
(2) Application Irom DeAnn Nlllos lor pormlsslon to sol up a
lablo on City Plaza on August 17, 1990, Irom which to
dlstrlbuto Inlormatlon rogardlng roproductlvo rights and to
ollor bultons and I.shlrts for donations. (approvod)
(3) Appllcallon Irom DoAnn Nillos lor pormlsslon 10 sol up a
tablo on City Plaza on August 24, 1990, Irom which 10
dlstrlbuto Information rogardlng roproductlvo rights and to
ollor bultons and t.shlrls lor donallons. (approvod)
(4) Appllcallon from latin Amorlcan Human Rights Advocacy
Cenlor lor pormlsslon to sol up a lablo on City Plaza during
tho porlod 01 Augusl 27 through Soptombor 2, 1990, Irom
which 10 dlstrlbuto 1Il0raturo and ollor crans lor donallons.
(approvod)
(5) Application lrom Iowa Civil Ubortlos Union, Hawkoyo Chaptor,
lor pormlsslon to sot up a table on City Plaza on Soptombor
13, 20 and 27, 1990, Irom which to dlslrlbulo 1Il0raturo.
(approvod)
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Consonl Calondar: pogo 1
McDonald
Larson John, I'd like to got a IIttlo moro Inlormatlon Irom tho tralllo ongr. about parklng on Chamberlain
and Hampton, E.l.(C, & d.). Can wo pull thoso two oul\ and dolor thom, pondlng furthor Inlo,
Iromhlm.
McDonald E.l,(O, & d,)
Larson yos
McDonald moved by Arnbr, soconded by Horow. to adopt tho ccnsonl calondar as amondod with Itoms
E,l.(o. & d) omlttod unit we havo an opportunity 10 gol moro Information on thoso two Itoms.
Larson Thoro aro sovoral pooplo In tho audlonco Inlorosted In Mayflold Road situation. "wo adopt this
consont calondar that would moan thai tho Mayflold Rd, situation would bo that parklng Is
allowed oxcopl on Friday loolball ovonlngs. Wo'II glvo thai a try lor awhllo.
McDonald Correct. MV othor dl".cut;lcn? Roll call . Con:cnl Calendar Is adopted as amended.
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Agonda
Iowa City City Council
Rogular Council MooUng
Soptombor 4, 1990
Pago 4
(6) Appllcallon Irom Johnson County DomOCtatlo P8Ily lor
pormlsslon 10 sol up a table on City Plaza on Augusl 20, 30
and Soptombor 4 and 0, 1990,10 roglstor volors, (approvod)
g. AppllcaUons for Uso 01 Sltoots and Publlo Grounds,
(1) Appllcallon Irom Proctor and Gamblo Manulacturlng Compa.
ny to havo tho P&G DMdond Day 5K Raco on AuguSI 25,
1990, (approvod)
(2) Application Irom Anno Cloary lor tho usa 01 Eallng Drlvo
botwoon Wroxham and 45 Eallng Drlvo on Soptombor 3,
1990, for a block party. (apprOVOd~)
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END OF CONSENT CALEN AR
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a, Consldor sOltlng a publlo hoarlng lor Soplombor 10, 1990, on an
ordlnanco amondlng the Zoning Ordlnanco by changing tho uso
rogulaUons 01 approxlmatoly 1.4 acros 01 land locatod botwoon
Dodgo and Govornor Stroots al912 N. Dodgo Slroollrom RS.lJ and
RS.12 to RM.I2. (Z.9009)
Commont: Allis mooUno of July 10, 1990, tho Planning and Zoning
Commission rocommondod, by a vola oI4'(), tho donlal 01 a roquost
submlttod by S, 0, Butchor Construction lor a zono chango lrom RS.
o and RS.1210 RM.12 lor approxlmaloly t,4 acros, locatod botwoen
Dodgo and Govornor Stroots 01912 N, Dodgo Stroot. Tho applicant
has roquostod that tho Clly Council consldor Ihls application In a
lottor dalod August 21, 1090, which Is Includod In your packot.
Action: ~1t\tll,~1I111I ~
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ITEM NO.4, PLANNING AND ZONING MAmRS.
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Agonda
Iowa CIty CIty Council
Rogular Council Mooting
Soptombor 4, 1990
Pogo 5
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b.
Publlo hoarlng on an ordlnanco conditionally changing tho uso
rogulallons 01 cortaln proporly locatod altho Iowa City Municipal
AIrport Irom P 10 P/CI.l and pn.l. (Z.9007)
Commont: At lis mooting 01 July 5, 1990, tho Planning and Zoning
Commission rocommondod, by a voto 01 3.2 (Clark and Coopor
voting no), tho approval 01 a Clty.lnltlatod appllcallon to rozono throo
parcols 01 land oqualllng approxfmatoly 48.65 acros locatod 01 tho
Iowa City Municipal AIrport. Tho Commission rocommondod that
Parcols 1 and 3 bo rozonodlrom P to P/CI.l, with Parcol 3 bolng
subJoct to admlnlstratlvo slto plan rovlow, Tho Commission rocom,
mondod that Parcol 2 bo rozonod Irom P 10 pn.l subjoct to tho
lollowlng conditions: 1) outdoor storago shall not bo vlslblo Irom
Old Highway 210, 2jloadlng docks shall not bo orlontod loward Old
Highway 21 0 and shall bo scroonod lrom Old Highway 21 0, 3) borms
shall be used to screon parking lots Irom Old Highway 210, and 4)
dovolopmontshall bo subloctto admlnlstratlvo slto plan rovlow. This
rocommondatlon Is conslslont wllh tho staN rocommondatlon datod
Juno 21, 1990. This hoarlng has boon contlnuod lrom tho August
21, 1990 moellng: Dick Blum, Chair 01 the AIrport Commission, and ,
Tom Scott, Chair 01 tho Planning and Zoning Commission, prosontod
tholr vlows concornlng tho proposod conditions altho August 21
publlo hoarlng. Tho publlo hoarlng should bo furthor contlnuod
pondlng Council discussion 01 this application with tho Planning and
Zoning Commission, (\t! b-I\....... tlff' ",iti
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Action:
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Agenda
Iowa City City Council
Regu/at Council MoeUng
Septomber 4, 1990
Page 6
o. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning 01 cortaln proporly
locatod 01 1105 Gllbort Court Irom CI.l to p, (Z.901 0) (Flrsl
consideration)
Comment: At Its meotlng 01 July 19, 1990, the Planning and Zoning
Commission racommendod, by a vote 01 4.0, approval 01 a City.
Inltlatod application 10 rezone approxlmatoly 1,17 acres located al
1105 Gilbert Courtlrom CI.lto p, The silo presently houses the
Johnson County Hoalth Department, a publlo entity, This recom.
mendatlon Is conslstenl with the stall recommendation datod July
29, 1900, No Commonts woro rocolvod at tho August 21, 1900
publlo hoarlng on this 110m,
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Action: 1'1 ' </'t'
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d. Publlo hoarlng on an ordlnanco amondlng tho Zoning Ordinance by
conditionally changing the use regulations 01 approxlmatoly 160
acres 01 land gonorally located north 01 Melrose Avenue and west 01
proporly owned by the Unlvorslty 01 Iowa Irom ID.R9 to OPDH'I, a
preliminary planned dovelopment housing plan lor Walnut Rldgo, (Z.
6916 & 9.6943),
Comment: AI lis February 16, 1990 meotlng, by a vote 01 0.1
(Hebert voting no), the Planning & Zoning Commission recommond.
ed approval 01 this rezoning requesllo enable developmenl 01 a
t Q4.lot slngle.lamlly resldenllal subdivision, This recommondatlon
was subjoct to extonslon ollho municipal sanitary sewer lrom tho
Hawkoye 11ft station to the project slle. Tho Commission also
recommendod, by a vote 01 6.1 (Scoll voting no), Ihatthe City pay
the cosl 01 this sewor extension, with said costs to be allocated on
a per acre basis wlth the alfected parties paying their share as
dovelopment occurs. This hearing has boen continued Irom the
August 21, t990 meotlng pending an agreement with the University
lor asewer easement. fiC' n~. "/'f('w,f,' ~;- yt1:'l,)
Action: d..wJ- / 4,,,(. ('..,d:, ,,~J -If I/;/I
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MeDI J)e(lare ph, re-Dp&n&d, This Is also a ph. that has been eonUnu&d tor a
tew dlttercnt m~tings While some details were being work&d out. We
were told during the Informal m~ting this mnlng that very possibly
this can be.thls ma~r will be handl&d at our next m~Ung at Sept.
I~th.
Mov&d by COurtney, ~nd&d by Ambrlsco to conUnue this ph, until
Sopll~th.. Any discussion?
All those In favor of the motion signify by saying aye-
Motion carries,
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Agonda
Iowa City City Council
Regular Council Meollng
Soptombor 4, 1990
Page 7
e, Publlo hO&llng on an ordlnanco 10 amond Chaptor 32, Subdivision
Regulations, 10 roqulro a grading pormlllor subdivisions In onvlron.
mentally sonslUvo &loas.
Comment: AI Its meeting 01 June 7, 1990, the Planning and Zoning
Commission rocommended, by a volo 01 6-0, approval 01 an
amondment to tho Subdivision Regulations 10 require a grading
permit lor subdivisions In onvironmontally sonsltlvo &loas, The
amendmenllncorporatos by rolerence the requirements 01 Appondlx
eMptor 70 01 tho tge3 Unllorm 1IY!Id!119 Codo, Excavalkln and
Gra:llng, as II has boen rovlsed and recommendod lor Inclusion In
Chaptor 0.17(23) 01 the Iowa City Municipal Code, and the Building
Codo. Tho excavation and Grading Ordlnanco lurther roqulros thai
all cuts and fills bo subjoct to Section X 01 the Public Works Design
Standards. Erosion and Sedlmontatlon Conltol as those standards
have been revlsod and rocommonded lor approval by tho Commls.
slon at lis Juno 21, 1990, meotlng, by a vote 01310 1 (Clark voting
no). The Board 01 Appeals has recommonded approval 01 Appondlx
Chapter 70, as rovlsed, lor Inclusion In the Iowa City Building Code.
This publlo hearing has beon continued from tho AuguSI 21, 1990
Council meeting,
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Consider an ordinance to amend Chaplor 32, Subdivision Regula.
tlons, to require a grading permlllor subdivisions In environmentally
sonsltlve areas. (First consldoratlon),
Commenl: See procodlng Itom.
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3
McD/l)e(lare the p.h, open. There are a few changes that I would like to
read Into the record at this point
Under definitions, there Is a ~ntence that erOSion Is the wearing away
01 earth material which Is a change as the result 01 the movement 01
wind, water, Ice or any combination thereof Also, another ~ntence,
geologlcallactors, R.lactors pertaining to rock or rock formations as
they might arrect the stability of SlOpe
And In Sect 700~ Perlormance. At such time as the grading permit Is
Issued, the bulldlng olllclal my require cash escrow certificates 01
deposit or a letter 01 credit In order to assure the work Is completod In
accordance with the approved plans and specs,
Novl
McDI At such time that the grading permit Is Issued the building olllclal my
reqUire (aSh OS{row. eerl!1lcates 01 deposit perlormance hOnds or a
letter 01 credit In order to assure that the work Is completod In
accordance with the approved plans and specs, and to assure that all
hazardous conditions are ellmlnatod,
Another ~ntence said cash escrow, certificates 01 deposl~
perlormance bonds or letters 01 credit when required shall be In an
amount equal to IIO:C 01 the grading project but In no way then shall
be required -shall the required exceed S 10,00001 the cash
equivalent
Th& other sentence, It Is the Intent 01 this section that cash escrow,
certlllcates 01 deposit, perlormance bonds or letters 01 credit shall not
be deemed as a substitution lor perlormance 01 the work but that
such Instruments shall stand solely liS security to assure compliance
with the grading requirements therein and we are deleting the last
~ntence 01 that section.
Nov II would like to propose one more amendmenL Ileel strongly that this
requirement 01 filing a grading permit on a 3: I SlOpe Is no strict
enough. I would propose that we change this to a 4: I . In the n&xt
example, Instead 01 9' within 27' horizontal It should read 7' within
28'.
Horow I What page Is that on?
Novl Tha~s the first page, Sect 7003,' L
McDI We are in the ph,
Nov I Whlle we are In the P,h,
McDI We will not be taking action. That's a proposal that you are gOing to
make when we get to acting on the Item,
Nov I I just want this to be out lor consideration during the p,h,
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Frankllnl When your considering the change In slope, It Is menUoned In
Secl700J,1. There are also other menUons of the slope WithIn the text
of the ordinance, so those would be changed accordingly.
Nov II found only one other on pg, 9. Are there more than that?
Frankllnl That's the ffrst one I found too, NaomI. I Will have to go through
and for sure ffnd- I think If you want to make that change then you
want to express It In such a way that that slope change can be made
throughoul
Nov I Say Where ever It reads J: I slope, we Will change to 4: I slope,
Frankllnl Precisely.
McDI Anyone that would like to address the council on this Item?
I now declare the ph, closed.
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.4.1. page 1
McD/Moved by Courtney, seconded by kubby to give thts first consideration
Discussion,
Courtney /I'd like to amend the ordinance with the correcUQns or changes
that John read, /k,c/ .Jm.,..t
McD/ There Is a motion on the floor to amend the ordinance with the
changes that ,,*re read during the p.h, Any discussion of those? All
those In favor of that motion stgntly by saying aye-motion carries,
Any other discussion,
Nov / I would like to amend the ordlnan~ to read 0\: I slo~ In alllnstanc&S
where the ordinance now reads ll.
McD/ Moved by Nov" seconded by Horow, to amend the ordinance so that It
would read 4: I slo~ rather than the 3: I slo~ that Is presently
propose In the ordinance. Any discussion?
Nov / A }: I slOpe Is a grade of 33', and a 4: I slope would be a grade of
25". Based on the fact that some of our st&epest stroot~or e~mple,
Bloomington Stroot at Madison are only IO-12~ grade, I fool that
having a 25~ grade requirement for filing a grading permit Is Mt a
real hazzard-real hardship for a developer. I fool strongly that most
developers, If they have their heads screwed on, are going to be
making their plans In wriUng with a plat and they are not going to
put a bulldozer In on a 4: I slope without having a plan and I think we
should require that this plan be flied with the city and the city engr.
look at It before they start,
Horow/lthlnk that I would support this primarily because of the type of
soil "* have In Iowa City, and although "* have seen some slopes
where "* don't have problems, we are talking about those parts of the
city that are sUII capable of being developod. We do have different
types of soli and I would urge that "* err on the side of
consorvaUvlsm for the fragile parts of our city... then not...
tlov I We also should say that where the final grading Is dODO someone can
come In with a dooper slope than 4: I If the soil will permit it. They
can't say the soil In this parUcular area doesn't permit a steeper slope
without erosion,
Larsonl John, Planning and Zoning and staU spent literally half a year on
this, holding Public Hearings and getUng Input not only from the
community, but from as many angles and view points as they could.
This ordinance Is likely to have some unexpected consequences lust
because It's hard to tell what the breadth and depth of It Is, No one
lIas bOOn able to figure out If It will aUect a lot of land or a small
amount of land, One of the best things about It I think Is that It
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hopolully Will encourage, thallraglle arm Within bUilding
developments Will be left untouched, because thai's one 01 the ways 01
avoidIng some 01 tho o~nsq 01 complying With lhfs ordinance, Is to
leave undisturbed the land thai has a slopo greater than Whatever
lovel we ond up putUng In tho ordinance. I'm hoping that thai will be
a slgnlllcanllncenUve lor people When theY're developing and platUng
out developments to leaVe some naturalleatures lhat maybe they
would plow under and do some landscaping With, Maybe that would
give thorn some IncenUve to leave those things alone.
I'm reluctanl to make It more strict than planning and zoning
was Willing to recommend, I do not have any problem with sending
back to P{l. and seeing II they will recommend 4: I or 5: I or anything
that anyone wants to look a~ but In the absence oltha~ I will not vote
lor 4: I on the amendment I will vote lor 3.5: I as the Chairman 01 P fl.
said that he felt lhat would be conSistent with their recommendaUon
that 3: I or 3.5: I were What P fl. was recommending. Illhat becomes
a compromlsq number, I'm comfortable with tha~ I would much
prefer that In fact to 3: I, since I'd like to go as far as P{l. was willing
to support
MeDII agrH With you Randy that I do think that there were many long
hours and deliberaUons before this proposal ever came to council. I
don't belim that the shotgun approach was taken on this. I think
lhat It was considered very carefully; I think that It's much better
than What we have now. obviously It has to be better because we
don't haVe anything so I think that we're moving In the right
dlrecUon, and I too am a IiLUe concerned at this point that by changing
It. by recommending changes right now unUI we see. until we get
some overall track record for the eHect that this might have. I'm
comfortable at this point With P fl.'s recommendaUon.
Horowl Now, P{l.'s recommendation is that Which Is repr~nled In the
ordinanCe, recommended June 7lh. That was 3: I, so we have talked
about an amendment 01 3.5.
Larsonl The amendment on the t100r Is 4: I.
Horowl Right
McDI The ordinance that we are considering Is 3: I, That Is What we are
considering at this point
Larsonl P{l. had ample opportunity to recommend 4:L I would have no
problem supporUng that II that Is What they had recommended,
There were stall people and Chuck Schmadeke lor one that did pUSh
4: I upon P fl., In the face Of all the looks that they took at II, When
they conscious decide not to look at 4: I, I have a problem going
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against them In fact, I think If W& approve the amendment of 4: I, W&
have to have a m*Ung With them
Courtney/ Just the (act that the ordinance Is In front of us and has
unanimous support for any slop& at all Is a mile stone for the city and
demonstra~ that there Is moro concern about the environment and
more concern With the fragile areas of the city then there has ever
been before. It has taken S&ven.elght years that I know of, that I
have been InvolVed In the process, lust to get tp thiS point. And I
think W& ought to go With tho r&commendaUon of P fl. If W& find that
W& sUII have problems In the future, Which I S&rlously doubt The
Instances Which triggered the conslderaUon of an ordinance like this to
start With were all much more extreme than either one of those
numbers we are talking about We can always come back and amend
It later, I Wish we could put numbers an4 fa~ on Ih~ slopes,
dellnlUve faces on them. But nobody has been able to do that for us
Ambr I That (act that we do have It In front of us Is a milestone. I Intend to
support the 3: I raUo. I oollevo that something that Is as far reaching
and significant as this In the change in our building requirements
roqulres that we be a little paUent With I~ It Is a milestone In Iowa
City's history that we've come this far, Hop&fully we are this close
Into passing something. I really think that something like this that
has no precedent In our community needs to have a test p&rlod. After
you look at It for a year or two and you think that maybe It Isn't
severe enough, Naomi, you could lead the charge and come back and
convince your co-councllors at that Ume that maybe you do need four
or five or six to one.
Nov Il'm convinced that we need 6: I.
Ambr II know you do, As o( this moment I Intend to vote for the 3: I raUo.
Nov II don't want to see the erosion falJlng Into the streets, under the streets
or anyWhere el59 before we amend It
Horowl We did talk about 3.5: I. Sounds like horS& trading. Would you two
genUemen be WllIlng to go With What Pfl was playing around With?
Larsonl We'll make a moUon If 4: I falls. We can consider that Issue If the
4: I amendment falls. I guess, Naomi, that Is What concerns me Is that
none of us are experts on What level of Slop& causes erosion. And we
have varying expert opinions presented to us and those opinions
rangod from 3: I to 4: I. That's What P fl's funcUon In this matter was
to do.was to hold those kinds of hearings at the public level to
determine those ISSUes, Now, they determlnod J: I and I WOUld lust be
saUsflod With that except for the fact that there was some noUon In
the mlnu~ and by reading between the lines you could tell that they
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Ulought Ulat Uley could go a IIWe more Ulan Ula~ to go 3.51 or 4: I
but Uley felt politically Ulat Ulat would 00 too dlfllcult That Ule
dmlopers would all come In and say Ulat Ulls was gOIng to 00 a
hardshlpJt's going to raise Ule price of lots and &veryUling. What I
Ulink Is inter&Sting is Ulat did not happen, NOM of us was Inundated
wlUl dmloper complaints about it Partly b&caUS& Ulere IS a lot of
unintended conS&quences Ulat no one really knows What Ule affect
might 00, It might very w&1l 00, as Bill sugg&sted, Ulat In a couple of
years, If Ulere are areas of ground Ulat aren.t/t bolng covered by Ulls
ordinance, Ulat W& would like to cover. Itcan always bo stIongUlened,
But I Ullnk Ule 3.5: I falls wlUlin Ule range of What, after talking to all
Ule experts, Pfl was willing to recommend and Ulat's Why I want to go
a liWe stIicter Ulen What Uley recommended.
Kubby lOUr director of Public Works says Ulat When Ule city does grading at
4: I, W& do eJigifi~fed grading. I woMer Why W& arv W1l1lng to aeevpt
anyUllng less In Ule private sector Ulan What W& expect and act and
oohave of ourselves.
Larsonl The city doesn't actually do all Ule Ullngs Ulat Ule ordinance would
require Ulem to do.
Kubby Iln terms of Ule 4: I, Chuck said Ulat
Larsonl She just said that the city does some things carefully at 4: 1. We
don't do all the eight or nine things that the ordinance requir&S the
private developers to do. We don't go out and hire an englnoor, we
don't have a soli analysis, W& don't have the plan flied with the clty.all
those kinds of things, We are careful about how W& develop It
Courtney I When have W& developed anything that has done this.
Kubby I But Chuck said at an Informal meotlng
Larsonl You mean In construction.
Novl Y&s, W& dug
Kubby I But Chuck said In an informal mooting that When we do something
that Is 4: I...that It should 00 done carefully. And Why should W&
expect anyUling less from Ule private sector.
Larsonl My ansW&r Is that W& are putting on a large set of r&Sponslbllities
that are expensive and that there Is a balancing that needs to 00 done
and I lust think that W& are pushing It as for as W& can.
Kubby I The expenses are not going to 00 considerably greater for those six
Inch&s that we are talking about So, Why not go all Ulo way to IOO:t
of What we think.
Horowl Randy, I guess I would have to dlsagroo, In my o~rvation of
watching Iowa City I have not soon Ulat When there has boen a
problem Ulat that problem has boen Immediately rectilled as
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evidenced by your ~ontinuaUy asking about the CUffs month after
month I'm not so sure that If In a years time that something Is seen to
have not boon useful, that we would be able to quickly act to rectify
thaL
Kubby lit would not affect the 610p& that we would be concerned about, If
we changed It WIllie there was a problem. I would rather prevent
these problems and 4: I again Is already a compromise.
Horowl Protection of fragile areas Is going to mean taking that extra step
both by legislators as well as develop&rs, I agree With Daryl that we
have come along way. I feel bad that It has taken us this long to get
there but If we are going to do It, let's really do it rlghL
KubbylThls Is a precedent/or Iowa City, but It Is not a precedent and Itls
nothing terribly Innovative In terms of across the country. I'm glad
we are doing It but it Is not anything that Is very unusual.
Larsoill John, do you f*l that th& policy Is In for(O that tr V:O \I.'Oro to vote
for 4: I amendment that we would have to have a joint meeting With
Pf/..
McDl1 think so.
Courtney II think not only tha~ we'd have to go back through public
hearings,
McDl1 think It would be back to square one as far as they're concerned. The
WIIole process. I do think they would have to go through their
hearings again.
Courtney I Even at 3.5: I, the develop&rs ought to have another chance at a
ph, Any change at all,
Novl Both of these numbers have been mentioned at ph. before today.
Larson, Would you answer a question, Is that appropriate John. I don't want
to get Into extended dlscusslons...Can you speak to the WIIole
Commission's views as to the difference between 3 or 4: I or 3.5: I.
Casey Cook I I don't think there was as sharp a division With the Pf/. Comm.
as there Is on the council... I think that many of us on the Pf/. Comm,
felt that our expertise has limits and we are just regular citizens
trying to make a decision. I think that'\ that Tom Scott has a lot of
expertise In this area and I also think that Nancy Reed Is also on the
Pf/. has a lot of expertise. She Is a landscape architect and she sharos
everybody's concerns about the envlronmenL We all heard the same
testimony from a variety of sources and we felt that the 3: I was
legitimate and it was a unanimous decision based on IL I don't think
we would live of die In that decision. If the council feels very strongly
that someUling different, let us know, Unanimous decisions are
unusual, even for P /Z.
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Courtney Iln the text here, It says It was a 3to I vote With Clarke voUng no,
ClarkI I think that was on the S&dlmentaUon and the 6/0 vote came on
IncorporaUng that In the tlnal. Dave's opposlUon, he relt that we were
over.regulaUng It at 3:L
Larsonl At 4: I, you fool this would needs to go back to P (l,
Cookll think so, yes,
Larsonl Would you agr" With Tom Scott's opinion that 3.5: lis not
necessarily substanUve Change that needed to go back to you.
Cookll would agr" with Tom,
Mc DI We do have a moUon on the floor to amend the ordinance to require
4: I rather than 3:L
Allin favor or that ordinance to amend the moUon, signify by saying
aye-
opposod-
moUon railed for lack of a majority
Karr I Ayes: Kubby, HoroWitz, Novick
Nayes: Larson, McD, Ambr. Courtney
McDI Moved by Larson, seconded by Horow to amend the ordinance so the
raUon would be 3.5: I rather then the proposod 3: I.
Larsonl Let me ask Dick or Karen, Is there a different compromise number In
the middle that makes more sense In terms or figuring It. Are you
going to be using slopes? Should I be saying 33?
Frankllnl 3.3 or a percentage that's easter to figure
Larsonl Should I be saying 20~ or 29~?
Franzl 3.5 Is 29.15~
Larson/ls that a difficult computaUon the few Umes that you are going to
have to make It?
Franz/3: lis 33 and 4: lis 25.
Larsonl 3: I Isn't olClcUy 33.."my attitude Is just that I want to error on the
side as being as environmentally conservaUve as you can, I just don't
f"1 like It make sense to go farther then Pfl was willing to go after
six months of studying It. That's What they are ror. It Is very dlftlcult
for me not to vote for 4: 1. My whole bias Is being on the conservaUn
side for the environment but I'm lust not willing to do that When Pfl
says that Is not What we wanlOO, you've got to kick the Whole thing
back to us It you do that and delay by another month In doing this.
That's Why I'm proposing a compromise. I want to go as far as they
are comfortable with going. I think It makes some sense. I don't
think It adds an undue hardship on the developers or anything else
and I think we ought to unite behind It and get It done and show
everybody that we are moving on It as progressively as we can.
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McDI Any oUler discussion on Ule proposed amendment on Ule floor, It's not
Ulat I dlsagroo WlUI wlJat you said Randy, but I'm also going to vote
agalnslUlal amendment 111 go back to Ule original premJSt Ulatlhls
proposallhat was submitted to us was reviewed and r~arched. was
not done IIghUy, and I do foolslrongly Ulat Ulere was a lot of Ume and
effort put Into Ulls to send Ule proposal In Ule way Ulat It finally came
to us and 1 am sUII comfortable WlUllhat proposal.
Larsonl J understand Ihal
Courtney I WIUI all due ros~t to Casey and Tom, I don't accept anybody
gelling up and repr~nUng Ule commission's vote as saying It would
go WlUlout taking a formal vote,
Courtney I 1 understand Ihal 1 would not be proposing Ulat If he hadn't said
Ihose Ihlngs, and 1 Ullnk Ihat Ihe only reason Ulat bolh of them felt
comfortabl& saying Ihat Is be\auS& of th& vvry Ivngthy dlS(USSloos
over monUls Ulat Uley had about Ulls, and It's only becaure of Ulose
statements that 1 proposed It I understand how you fool,
McDI Any oUler discussion? We do hm a moUon on Ule floor to amend the
ordinance to make the raUo 3.5: I raUler than the proposed 3: 1. All
Ulose In favor of that motion, signify by saying aye. All those
opposed, 1 think UlatUlere was a majority Ulat Ume for 3.5. MoUon
carried. The ordinance Is amended to read 3.5: 1 raUler Ulan Ule
proposed 3: 1. Any oUler discussion? Roll call.
Karr I Horowitz?
Horowl Yes,
Karr I Kubby?
Kubbyl Yes.
Karr I Larson?
Larsonl Yes,
Karr I McDonald?
McDI Yos,
Karr I Novick?
Novl Yes.
Karrl Ambrlsco?
Ambr I Yes.
Karr I Courtney?
Courtney I Yes,
McDI First conslderaUon Is approved.
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Agonda
Iowa City City Council
Regular Council Moellng
Soptember 4, 1990
Page 6
1\ clJ' '!'-'"
g. Consldor a rosolutlon extondlng tho oxplrallon dale lor tho approved
preliminary Largo Scala Non.Rosldentlal Devolopmont (LSNRD) plan
lor Mello Pavors, Ino, localod a11722 Stovens Drlvo.
Commenl: The preliminary LSNRD plan lor Mollo Pavors, Ino,
explrod on January 20, 1990. Pursuanl to Chaptor 27-39 01 tho Iowa
City Municipal Code, tho applicant, In a letter dated August 17, 1990,
requests a lWolve month extension ollho preliminary LSNRD plan 10
January 26, 1991, 10 onable the applicant to filo a final LSNRD plan
lor the site. The municipal coda permit. the Council. by rosolul1Qn,
10 grant this extension 01 time.
(1('\1< 't/-JIfo' "
Action:
,t, f ...,,) %
ITEM NO.5,
PUBUC DISCUSSION.
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McD/ Public discussion.
Ellen Buchanan/I'm president of tho Library Board of Trustees, I am going
to take precisely two and one hall mlnuoos of your time tonight I
know you have a lot on YOUl agenda, About two wooks ago you
received a copy of the the public library's annual report for 1990, As
most of you know, this report Is the official report to the library
board, city council an to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors, It
Is also an evaluation of the staff accomplishments and It IS a history of
the library for 1990, Also Included are statistical summaries and
financial reports, The them~ of this annual report when you read It Is
'the betoor we are the more business we creaoo', And the theme of
course of the library board Is always the perennial quostlon of how do
we balance what the public n&&ds and wants but finding resources to
provide the services. We on the board of trustees appreciate your
support for the library. We fool that the community Is fortunate for
this 5UpfX)ft aiid for th~ IncrOOlbl& commitment of tM staff and tho
level of the sorvlces that the staff provides. I lust want to share a
couple of dramatic figures that are In the report that I hope you can
read. Since the new library opened In 1961, five million people have
entered It's doors, And In the second hall of fiscal year 1990, the good
news-bad news Is, the usage jumped 2a. 630,000 Items were
checked out last year. That's like 4-5 Items per minute, Since 1961,
when we moved Into the new library, circulation hafjumped 70~.
Last year the staff answered 60,000 questions and requests. And 6~
more children attended the programs, 254 dlllerent groups...used our
meeting rooms. And on the financial front, the Board Is acquiring
greater variety In the support to support the library. Due to the
steady support of the Friends and Foundation coordinated through the
development office and open access, the library Is now raising 16~ of
It's budget We think that Is quite remarkable. Well, there Is a lot
more, I hope you read I~ I urge you to read It and just remember the
betoor job we do, the more business we create, Thank you,
McD/ Anyone else",
Douglas Jonesl 616 Park Road. I thought I would lust thank you for the vote
you took on the 3: I vs. 3.5: I vote. Inappropriate development, once It
occurs, Is extremely difficult to undo. If you later discover that you
would have liked to allow development more easily on land which has
not yet been developed, It Is always easy to go back and allow it to be
developed, Figures I have seen recently In the library, usage figures,
show that quite nicely, They show that Iowa City Is the fastest
growing metropolitan area In the state and when you have high
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growth ra~, th& dmlopm&nt pr&ssur& on th& land Is at It'p,htghesl
Bad d&clslons g&t mad&...you hav& a chance h&re to mak& gd<<!
d&clslons, Thank you v&ry much for th& mov& you tool'-
McDI Thank you. Anyon& &Ise...
Larsonl Th&r& was a young lady that was goIng to bring something up und&r
public buslMSS. I want to mak& sur& sh& h&ar thal SM must have
stepp&<! ouL
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Agenda
Iowa City City Council
Rogular Council Mooting
Septomber 4, 1990
Pogo 9
ITEM NO.6, PUBUC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE ADOPTING APPENDIX CHAPTER
70 (EXCAVATION AND GRADING) OF THE 1908 UNIFORM BUILDING
CODE, AS AMENDED,
Comment: Tho Bootd 01 Appoals has rovlewed Appendix Chapter 70 01 tho
\908 Unllorm Building Code and has modo soveral changes 10 accommo.
dato local condlllons and practlcos, AI their meeting 01 June 20. 1990, they
modo a rocommendatlon 10 Councillor adoption, Tho voto was three ayos,
zero nays with ono membor ablOnl. This publlo hooting Is continued Irom
tho Augusl 21, t990, Council mooting,
Action:
rtf, #H/" lSA/~.dl."{'
ITEM NO.7,
C.ClV~1 O~R.
MllO~ AN ORDINANCE ADOPTING APPENDIX CHAPTER
70 (EXCAVATION AND GRADING) OF THE 1988 UNIFORM BUILDING
CODE, AS AMENDED, (Firat Consldoratlon)
Commenl: The Board 01 Appeals has rovlewed Appendix Chapter 70 01 the
1900 Unllorm Building Codo end has modo sovoral changes to accommo.
dale local conditions and practlcos.
Action:
\1tll'c'/L/ ItIJ~")
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ITEM NO. 0,
1511' 1'/./.
17,) U
.,,~M(I Yt'
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PUBUC HEARING ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT
AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSmUCTlON OF 'THE COLLEGE
STREET BRIDGE REHABILITATION AND IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.
Commont: This project Involvos tho removal and roplacemenl 01 Ihe
detorloratod portion 01 the deck and north lacade of tho Colloge Stroel
bridge, located easl 01 Muscatlno Avenuo spanning the south branch 01
Ralston Creek, along with Ihe construction 01 now Inlots and storm sewor
which will Improvo stormwalor dralnago 01 the brldgo slle, Tho Englnoor'a
construction cosl osllmate Is $00,000,
Acllon:
Jtt) ~/I!h I
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McDI I now declar~ Ut~ ph, opon.
Ambr I I hav~ a quosUon for Ute manager. Steve, Will Ut~ letting occur Utls
year WlUt Ute conSlrucUon.reconslrucUon occur In 1990?
AUclnsl To Ute best of my knoWledge, yos, RJck Is In Uto aUdlonce. Rick Is
nodding yos.
Ambr I We Bre sun rerouUng Utat bus Uno?
AUclnsl Yes,
Ambr I WOII, I'd like 00 ~ It acCelorated, Thank you.
McDI Any oUt~r diSCUssion?
Now declare Uto ph, clOSed.
14
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Agenda
Iowa City City Council
Rogu/ar Council Meollng
Soplombor 4, 1990
Page 10
ITEM NO.9,
-111)0 1;,/\
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CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS,
FORM OF CONTRACT AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSmUC,
TlON OF THE COLLEGE STREET BRIDGE REHABILITATION AND
IMPROVEMENT PROJECT, ESTABUSHING AMOUNT OF BID SECURITY
TO ACCOMPANV EACH BID, DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBUSH
ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS AND FIXING TIME AND PLACE FOR
RECEIPT OF BIDS AT 10:30 A.M., ON SEPTEMBER 25, 1990,
Commont: Soo t;Ommonl above.
Action:
A,~~ J [I:, t " A, I
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ITEM NO. 10, ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES.
I~/"';';') U
a, Riverfront Commission ' One vacancy lor a representallvo or the
University ol'owa lor a throe.yoar term ending Docembor 1, 1993.
(Allen 0, Slroh's term ends.)
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b, Board 01 Ubrary Trustoes ' Ono vacancy lor a Johnson County
representative lor an unexpired term ending July 1, 1993. (Ted
Pacha reslgnod,)
Thoso appolnlmonls will be made at Ihe October/S, 1990, meeting 01 the
City Council. \ I ~
ITEM NO, 11 ' CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS.
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a. Consider an appolnlmonlto Ihe Board or Eloctrlcal examiners and
Appeals lor an electrlcol onglnoer for a 'our.year lerm ondlng
October 26, 1994, (Melvin Schwoer's lorm onds.)
Action: (/. ($~ 11~./.,;" .-kAt,I/I")
/,,// fli'''''' ..:If.
b, Consider an appolntmenlto the Board 01 Examlnors 01 Plumbors for
a Journoyman plumber lor an unexpired term ending Dscember 31,
1991, (Jim Alberhasky resigned.)
Acllon:
~I/It> t. /1",,.;,'tfM,)
/"1,'71/ ~I!('I -1- j(,;,;""
a ' I LI [I b
Agenda
Iowa City City Council
Regular Council Moetlng
September 4, 1990
Page 11
0,
Consldor an appolntmontto the Parks and Rocreatlon Commission
lor an unexpired torm ondlng January 1, 1991, plus a four-year lerm
ending January 1, t995. (Ann Hesso reslgnod.)
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.?.'/~ '1 -Itd/,fv ~1(~xJ)
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Action:
ITEM NO, 12. CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
,kl' ~/!r;t/
ITEM NO. 13 ' REPORT ON ITEMS FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND CITY ATTORNEY.
a, City Manager.
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b, City AUornoy.
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McDI City counclllnlormation
Courtnoy I Wo dlscuSS&<lln tho Inlormal briefly tho tralllc conditJon on
D&For&St. I would just IIko to say that lh&ro Is a solution being
propos&d thero. A lotter Is being dollver&<! to tho r&sldonts by hand,
I would also IIko to announco that tho )CCOG has comploted It's process
lor appointing a solid waste managoment planMr lor tho )CCOG, This
1n<lIVldUal sel&COO<IIS Drad Nowman Irom weosoor CIty, Had a stmllar
position up In that area and will be starting Sept. 17th,
Ambr/ As a r&sldent 01 Mt. Vernon Drive and Princeton Rd" I lust want to
say to all tho lolks who wore Involv&<! In the storm water proj&Ct and
the sewor prol&C~ that on Friday morning barriers camo down and
openod up First Avo, and as a r&Sult 01 tha~ all tho peoplo I know that
live In that area. wo all went to church and wo sang thow hymn, 'The
Strlle Is Ovor'. I want to tell tho engineering dept. we aro very
appr&Clative 01 what you did lor us and It looks beautilul. Thank you,
I wondor III can go back to SUsan, Would you mind mentioning that
meeting With Senator Harkin...
1I0rowl Tomorrow, thore Will be a serl&S 01 mootings throughout this aroa
that Senator Harkin has arrang&<! with Senator Frank Lau~nburg 01
New )orsey, Tho Chairman 01 tho Senate Appropriations subcommlttH
on Transportation. Thoy Will be holding a sorl&s 01 meetings on tho
Avo, 01 the Saints. We han been Invited to go up to talk about
obtaining r&<!erallundlng ror tho highway, Senator Harkin serves on
this transportation 6ubcommlttH. Some of us Will be going up along
with
IS
TAPE CHANGE TO REEL 90-76, SIDE 2
II
lrom Burlington. If anyono Is lnter&sted In any or th&Se, ploase seo me
alterwards.
Ambr II wanted It brought up because I know while there may be some
members In the community In eastern Iowa that rogard this as a
unn&C&SS8ryevll, I think thore Is a vast majority 01 the people that
rogard this proposed AVe, 01 the Saints a great boom for not only
eastern Iowa but also lor your state, When we look at the latest
census flgur&S, or course Iowa City enjoy&<! remarkable growth, the
state as a whole has shown somewhat of a downturn, I'm not saying
that this 000 particular proj&Ct Will make the dlllerence In the Mxt
decado, but I think It Will have a Significant Impact. I think that thore
are quite a number on tho council that do support this and thoro Is
quite a number In the community that do support this prol&Ct.
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Nov II mentioned about a month ago that the City Council would I\tmlnate
PrOject Green tor Conservation Organization ot the year awcltu. Now I
would like to mention the tact that they have won this award. This a
state-Wide award and It will be a meeting In Des Moines on October 6.
McDI Thank you, Mr, Larson,
Larsonl NQ news Is good news, JQhn.
McDI Ms. Kubby.
Kubby I Ditto.
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Agenda
Iowa City City Council
Regular Council Mooting
September 4, 1990
Page 12
ITEM NO. 14 '
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION CONSENTING TO THE ASSIGNMENT OF
THE INTERESTS OF IOWA CITY CAN MANUFACTURING COMPANY TO
IOWA CITY CAN COMPANY, AND AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
TO EXECUTE DOCUMENTS RELATED THERETO,
:.1Cl:..J..03
Comment: This action allows a subsidiary 01 Alcoa to step Into the place
01 ono 01 the parlnersln tho Iowa City Can Manulacturlng Company. Alcoa
wlll also be seoklng the approval of Iowa Department Economlo Develop.
ment.
Action:
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ITEM NO,15, CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING JOINT AGREEMENT
BElWEEN THE IOWA CITY UBRARV BOARD OF mUSTEES AND THE
CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY TO COORDINATE NEGOTl,
:\1 '10 . 1;(' J ATlNG PROCEDURES FOR PURPOSES OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING,
Comment: The certmed bargaining unll consisting 01 nonolJxempl Ubrary
employees, as woll as the City gonoral employees' bargaining un" aro both
representod by AFSCME Local 163. In the past, the City and tho Ubrary
havo consolldalod contracl nogotlatlons Into a single process, This
agreemonl continues this arrangomentlor the upcoming negotiations undor
the terms and conditions spelled out In the agreoment. This process has
beon utilized successfully for approximately 15 yeara ond stall recommends
thai It be continued. The Ubrary Board 01 Trustees has' approved this
agreement,
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Action:
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Agonda
Iowa City City Council
Rogular Council Moollng
Soptombor 4, 1990
Pogo 13
ITEM NO,16,
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AMENDING THE BUDGETED POSmONS IN
THE GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS DIVISION OF THE PARKS AND
RECREATION DEPARTMENT AND THE AFSCME PAY PLAN.
x
Commonl: This rosolutlon dolotos one Ma/ntonanco Workor I position and
adds one Custodial Workor I poslllon In RocroaUon/Govornmonl Buildings,
a now classlncatlon In pay grade 00, A moro dotallod oxplanatlon Is
Includod In tho attachod momorandum lrom tho Asslstanl City Managor, j!Plt'(
/l 1,1 I~ ,'" lip
Action: ( ItIIl' ~/J/{/," HI/ j({/,VI
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ITEM NO. 17,
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING AND AUTHORIZING EXECU,
TlON OF AN AGREEMENT WITH WIWAM AND JOAN GILPIN AND
RIVERSIDE THEATER, AN IOWA NON.PROFIT CORPORATION, FOR
USE OF PUBUC RIGHT,OF,WAV AT 213 N. GILBERT IN IOWA CITY,
IOWA.
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Commont: Rlvorsldo Thoator Is loosing spaco In tho Gilpin Paint building at
330 E, Markol, with tho Thoator's addross as 213 N, Gllbort, Tho Thoalor
roquosts pormlsslon to construct a stop on tho sldowalk lust wost 01 tho
building. Othorwlso, becauso 01 tho physical constraints 01 tho thoator, a
rocossod step would ollmlnato tho handlcappod.accosslblo ramp up to tho
auditorium and would Intorforo with handlcappod accoss to tho rostrooms.
Slnco parking motors and a dralnago spout alroady projoct onto tho
sldowalk, tho stop would notlntorforo wllh pedostrlan tralflo, Public Works
and tho City Attornoy's Olflco rocommond opproval.
Action: Ami J ;j. :~
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ITEM NO, 10 ' CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE COMMENCEMENT OF
EMINENT DOMAIN PROCEEDINGS FOR THE CONDEMNATION OF
TEMPORARV AND PERMANENT STORM SEWER EASEMENTS IN THE
AREA OF IDVLLWILD SUBDIVISION TO THE IOWA RIVER, AND
APPOINTING A SPECIAL ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE
PURPOSE OF PROSECUTING SUCH PROCEEDINGS.
Commont: This Subdivision was approvod Juno 26, 1~90, subloct 10 tho
Dovolopors obtaining a storm sowor oasomontlrom Idyllwlld to tho Iowa
Rlvor,. NlOI two months' olforl,tj1o Dovolopors lallod to obtain tho oasomont
by c6i\{lo'ffi~\lQii: r'Pu'b'ic~Works and tho City Englnoor rocommond
approval, slnco tho oullolls noodod for prop or dralnago.
Acllon: (!/,("r I JJI{' k" ft,:l
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ADJOURNMENT, 1/1 II / ../
{/1l'ny '-1.7ld""'-' ,la' .If'" /.' J~
ITEM NO. 19,
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McDI Moved by Courtney, seconded by KUbby to adopt the resolution,
DIscuSSion?
Larsonl I Imagine.
McDI Do ~ have any repr~ntatives of the union here?
Larsonl That'll what I wanted to know,
Kubbyl I called during he break and they have a prior commitment. If
there's a chance that ~11 VO~ no on this, I ~ul<l prefer that w&
~uld defer so that ~ can get an ans~r and a response to some 01
the questions that we have. Ins~ad of voting It down that we get
more that ~ get more Information before ~ make a decision,
Horowl Prior commitment?
McDI Didn't they think that this ~uld be Important?
Kubby/l ~uld assume so, but they have meetings tonlgh~ and I ~uld
preler.
McDI J guess that I go back to the original conversation that we had Karen,
that we. ror the benerlt or the aUdience, ~ did discuss this at our
Inrormal meeUng berore our rormal began, and this was an Issue that,
as rar as the custodial care or the. ror this bulldlng. and some other
orrlce space that ~ have that ~ ~re going to contract out ror, and
union representaUves, or representaUves or our local union, ap~ared
berore the councll that parUcular evening to. and as was. all the
councll members could remember, we were told at that parUcular
Ume that there was not a nOO<l ror to do that, that they would be able
to do It ror the same amount or money as that proposed contract was
going to be. Well, In rurther negoUauons, It didn't quite turn out that
way. It was going to cost more money to get the type or service that
we ~re InlUally going to contract out tor. That's where ~'re at on
this. This Is the reason that we're discussing this.
Ambr I My problem Is, ]ohn, I don't know U the union representaUve
understood that the only reason that the request to contract out
achieved rour votes was the representaUon by the union that union
employeos could do the job ror the same amount or money or less than
the contract was ror, There may hm been some votes that were
WIlling to leave It WIth the union even U It did cost a bit more, but I
think that to get over the top, It was necessary to that their proposal
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00 lor the same amount 01 money In the negotiations oot~n the
union and the city stall, It didn't turn out that way. and I'm hot Willing
to leave it With the union Without at least hearing their explanation 01
Why It didn't turn out that way II WfI had the vote tonight, I'd vote to
subcontract it oul I'm not going to pay more money alter WfI're being
told that we can do It lor the same amount 01 money. But I do want
to allow them to give inpul I don't know If they knew that they Wflre
gOing to have to 00 here tonight or Whal
Larsonl The resolution oolore us has nothing to do With sUbcontracting; It
has to do With creating the position at the pay plan that's proposOO,
and as lar as I'm concerned, WfI can vote on thal II neoo 00, it can 00
brought up at a dlrttrtnt flgurt,
Ambr I And I'm Willing to vote against creating the new position at this
polnl
I think Ulat sends a pr~l.ty c1~ar m~~ge tQ th9m that listen you said
that you could do it at the same price, let's get to the bargaining table
With a-
MeDII also think that WfI see the memorandum Irom the assistant ctty
manager like they did, With the background Information about What
has laken place, since our last discussion,
Ambr I My only concern is that they thought the vote had been achieved.
The last Ume the~ details wouldn't change tha~ they clearly do
change It for me,
Novl Unless they would negotiate.
MeDII don't know that It hurts to turn this thing down and then-
Helllng/lt can be brought back again, John.
Kubby II want to make sure that WfI make that clear to the union, too.
Ambr I But What Will come back Is a contract proposal again.
McDI That's righl
Horow/l have a procedural quesUon. What happons tl we turn down this
proposal? What's the next step 7
Helllngl The next step would be to come back to you, well to come back to
you. well, either number one, to go ahead and fill the Maintenance
Worker I poslUon that's vacant at one step higher, Which I don't think
I'd hear that message II you vote this down. The other alternaUve Is
to come back to you With Whatever you direct, Whether it's a contract
again, In the meanUme we would have to contact the prospecUve
contractors and see If they're Willing to honor that contract amount or
Whether we would have to be negoUated or Whatever. I believe that
is was originally lor sixty days When we took the bids.
Kubby I There's a third option 01 renegotiating and talking to the union
again,
McDI That can be brought back to,
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Kubby / So there are three options. not lust two
Larson/Is there sentiment ror the direction being that we don't vld~t to rill
this position because It Is more money and that they Will be directed
to rind out that j( they are Willing to do the same lob for the same
money, o.kay, otherWise we are gOing to have the contract proposal on
our agenda, So Dale has more negotiating power With the.
Ambr / My decision a month ago was strlcUy on the basts that thoy were
going to bo able to do the same kind or work ror the same amount or
money. Now that Is not What they are telling me here after this comes
out Into this kind or resolution, Dale, how did we get Into the area that
I don't want to be In as the quality or the work, How do we know
When you are going be be satisrled that this place Is cleaned the way It
should be, We talked to Linda a couple or Urnes and she can't get her
drapes vacuumod or Whatever It was that wasn't meoting hor
spedrlcations, Those are the kinds of things I need to know j( I'm
going to 00 brought Into this kind of a d~iston, As a pvrwn Who IS
suppose to be here as a polley maker I don't like being In th~ kinds
of decisions but since you've got me here, I'm perfecuy Willing to vote
It down tonight
Helllng/ I think It Is a proof or pudding kind or thing and I can't tell you that
We have no guarantee of how the contractor Is going to do until they
are on Ute lob. We Utlnk Utat devoting Utls one person strlcUy to Utls
building an one oUter set of olllces right across Ute stree~ Utat we can
Improve the lovel of service Utat we have been getting and get some
of Utose things done Utat not only Linda but a variety of oUter folks
around Ute Civic Center have complained about aren't getting done.
That would mean Utough Utat Utat person would not be stretched so
Utln Utat Utey would also be responsible for Ute public works olllces
and Ute planning olllces which are even more remote from Utls.
Probably the only way we would know Is to go one way or Ute oUter
and try It and see What happens. Certainly, we hm more control Utls
way. Again, the question was raised last time about Ute performance
or non-performance of contract and we just don't know until we 500,
McD/ And Utat way, we also have some llexlbtllty. You can terminate a
contract much simpler Utan you can It you go Ute oUter way. You
simply lust don't renew It,
Helling/ We would have a one year contract Is what we are proposing,
Larson/I'm willing to vote this proposal down wiUt Ute Idea Utat we are still
open It Ute union wants to come back wiUt a better proposal. They are
too far apart on Ute money betW%n the contract and Ute In.house
personnel at Utls point,
McD/ That's rlne, I think Utat . I don't disagree as far as voting tills one
down because I do bellm Utat It did not come about Ute way we felt
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that It was gOing to com& about. But at the same Ume I thlQX wo also
have to give staft some dlrecUon on this They have done Ilour way
tWice now and we turned down the tlrst one and now we are going to
turn down this one, WhIch way are we goIng to go,
Larson/l think the reason Is because we were either misled or lust didn't
get followed through as to Whether the union could match the contract
proposal. I think by turning thIs down wo send a clear message that
for Dale to take to them that you got to do What you said you were
going to do or It Is gOing to get contracted out. I think that this Is
appropriate that this be With us, I don.t want to manage the CIty
either but I think I polley qu&sUon as to contracUng things out or
using your union personnel we at least need to be conferred With on,
Kubby I An Issue that has not even been brought up Is one of a livable wage
for doing a good job. My altitude Is that the contractor mayor may
not bo paying a livable wage to those workers and I don't want the
dcods1oo to w basOO On solely the bottom line.
Ambr II do. I absolutely do, I have an obllgaUon to all the tax payers of this
community, not just thos& Who are members of AFSCME. That's how I
view my job.
Kubby II agree, I agree. But When the amount of dlUerence is as small as
wo are talking about Ulat we can have loyal consistent employees.
That if wo have a problem With Ulom Ulat If they are not doing their
job C<irrecUy Ulat Uley be supervised to do Ule lob correctly or Uley
are not going to be employed anymore, It may be a longer process to
do that but I would raUler have Ulls job done at a livable wage by city
employoes. And Ulat Ule bottom line Is not Ule most Important thing
when you l\re talking about the dally lives of people and Ule wage
they earn for a good lob done,
Larsonl We Will see It again on one form or anoUler.
Ambr II move Ule quesUon.
McDI Rollcall
Tho r&Solutlon Is denied, Kubby voUng yes.
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McDonald Moved by Courtney and seconded by Herowltz to adopl tho resolullon, Discussion.
tm......r
Larson Is that a misprint, Unda, In tho?
Gonlly II should read tby negollallen, ~ That's a c10rtcal orror,
Larson T Tho dovelopers lalled to obtain Iho easomonl by nogoUallon or purchase ~ not condemnallon.
McDonald I do bollevo that thoro are somo Individuals thaI want to address pertaIning to this particular
Issue this evening, I guess I'll open II up now and ask If thoy would like to address the ceuncll
at this particular lime.
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AI Lell My name Is AI Lell and I'm here represenUng the property owners whose land Is the subjecl
01 the proposed cendomnatlon, I'm not sure that's II's appropriate 10 lalk yet. My
understanding, Unda was thaI thoro would bo a slall prosonlaUon here tonight, and II that's
wreng Ihan I'll talk now buill that'D right than I'll sll down and walt.
Gentry No, Ge ahead and make your prosentatlon II you're ready 10 do thai now.
Lell Sure.
Larson Mr. Lell, Who do you represent?
Lell Carol Seydel and Lyle, and Jim White and his wile,
Larson Are thore more Ihan one firm ropresontlng. ?
Lell Vou have probably In your packet or have received by new a lettor Irom Bill MO!\l~Qn, also
foptosenting thorn, and we are approaching Ihls In a coordinated fashion.
Larson Thank you,
Lell I'll limit my comments to the legal proceeding te what you're contomplallng, thalls,lhelr roquosl
thai you condemn the property, 11. I would Imagine thai yeu don't have condemnation as an
Item on your agonda vory ollen, and I would Imagine thai when you do, Ills to lurther a pUbllo
werks prolect such as a sewer planl where It Is nocessary 10 go through a private proporly to
extend a publlo works or to wIden a corridor as part 01 a highway expansion prolecl and I'm
concerned aboullhe resolution that you're bolng asked te consider tonight, In that you are
bolng askod by a dovelopor to acquire property thai he dees not have, butlhal he needs In
order to develop his private property. When I use Ihe word his, I'm talking about the doveloper,
pardon me.
Ills c10ar that without your delng somothlng to condomn this prlvato proporty, the devoloper;
Is not gelng to be ablo to satisfy your city subdivision ordinances as Ihey are now constituted
lor the kind 01 subdIvision that the dovolopor wants to de, And It gives me gravo concerns Ihat
you would be asked Ie condomn private proporty lor the benofit of private developmenl 01 olhor
proporly, Now I den', know how lar yeu've gone Into Ihe process 01 eminent domain,
Everyone Is aware that tho clly has It but It Is not an unllmlled power. It Is very, very precisely
stated In the cede that the cities shall have the rlghl fer publlo purposes which are reasonable
and necossary as an Incldonl to the powers and dutlos conferred upon cities. Don't over look
reasonable and necessary, and lor publlo purpose,
Lel'slook al the area that you are bolng requested to consldor. At the negollatlon session that
we had on August 23, It was discussed as 10 why do we need these storm sewers. Your
Publlo Works director slatod, II there wore no subdivision bolng contemplatod, there would be
no requirement lor storm sewers, there'd be no roqulremont for tho Tall spoedway paving
project,and slorm water preJoct. Whal Is bolng put Into Ihe water.shod by the 99 acre lractls
now being handled by natural surface flow, Is not a problem to Ihe people living on tho Seuth
side 01 Tall Spoodway, Se the only reason Ihat It Is now a necessity to be consldored Id thai
It Is lor private devolopmont. We are talking abcul publlo purposo and nocesslty lor publlo
purpose, We're lalklng abeut furtherance 01 private proporty Interests lor development
purposes.
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I think thai you have to be vory caullous when you exercise the powor 01 omlnenl domain, that
you do 50 It's nol an arbitrary abuse 01 the dlscrellon, Whal public purpose Is being served by
tho condemnallon? Thera's no ono down litera thaI neods II now, Everyono on tho south slelo
drains Ie the rlvor. Water does notllow over Tall Spoedway, They are not requesting a road,
You talk abeut your CopItallmprevomonl Program ler the period 91.93, at lite discussion on
August 23. II was statod, lItore are no wrltton plans, thore Is nothing In wrlllng, thore's nothing
10 look at that gives us an Indlcallon el whalthose plans are lor Tall Speedway, where Is lite
publlo sewer gelng to be, Your roportlndlcalos thai It suggosls that there may bo the need lor
two or three outlets 10 go directly from the storm sewer project thai Is contemplated 10 go
directly to the river, Ills conlomplated but not doslgnod,
I asked Mr. Schmadeke, does Tall Spoedway have an established grade at this lime? No,
Doos It have a proposed oSlabllshed grade lor the projecl? No, Where will the storm sewors
be? II Is Impossible 10 say unUlIt's been doslgned, Is II going to be on the north side or south
side? you have 10 have a doslgn to detormlne It, but II will only be along Tall Speedway,
This Is not a storm sewer proJoclthat goos up Into the 99 acre tract, II's nollo solve a problom
thai exlsls. It's 10 address the dovolopor's needs lor developmenlthat he cannot sallsly on
his own, I cannollmaglne that thai Is a propor exorcise 01 the powers 01 emlnenl domain that
have boon bestowed on clly munlclpalltlos or clUos such as you, Vou dollne lor yoursell what
publlo purpose you're sorvlng by II, I don'l know whalltls, The resolullon that was proposed
originally has now been expanded to Include all kinds 01 publiC purpose staloments, but I don't
think you should be decelvod by wording and lindings of what you decide are necessary on
something Ihat's beon dralled lor you 10 consider and pass, Lei's not look at the words, let's
look al what's really happonlng, what yeu're really being asked to do, I think II's really evldonl;
you're being asked te condomn private proporty for prlvato develope~s use, II's thai sImple.
You don't have a doslgn yet Irom the publlo works department lor the proposod Tall Spoedway
paving and slorm water prejoct. Vou don't know how thai might lie 'nlo this system thai Is
being preposed. It's a 1Il1le Inconcalvable thai now Is proper timing lor condomnallon to lit In
with the genoral publlo purpese or no ed, whon right now there Is no neod,
" It weron'l lor the developmont and the change of the 1I0w from the ninety. nine acre tract Into
the retonUon pond, and the change of the naluralllow as II now exists, thore wouldn't be the
neod lor this storm sewor proJoct. I think your stall will back my 51atement up on thai, "yeu
procoed 10 condemn, and II your oxerclse el the power Is ulllmalely uphold, you will have
established a very dangerous procedent for othor councils 10 lollow, How can they not be
accused 01 being arbitrary IIthoy granl one roquost and deny another, when privata property
owners come and say give mo Ihls access, give me this sewor easemenl, give me this read
easomont, I've golthls properly, I nood It. What. you can'l, you can't oxorclse this power In
an arbllrary way, IIlnvalldalos your exercise 01 powor. How do you establish crllorla? I don't
see why you are being askod as a City council to do this, I don't how much the clly Is paying
for any 01 Ihls proceeding, The rosolullon, Ihat you're going to be considering ulllmaloly, has
slated In It thai tho clly IInds thai the dovolopers have agreod to participate In the cosl of
condomnatlon proceodlngs wllh parllclpa. which participation shall be to a degree doomod
equitable and reasonable, and based on benellts attributed 10 the subdivision as opposod 10
bonollts aUrlbutod to or running In lavor 01 the Clly 01 Iowa Oily. I'm sorry, I really don't know
whal that means, and to pass a rosolutlon which doosn'l clearly stale whe Is paying lor what
so ems to me to not be addrosslng the Issue, My guess Is that based on tho original resolullon
Ihat approved Iho subdivision It was the clly. or, II was Ihe subdovoloper who was 10 acqulro
this easemont without any coslto the city,
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Another part 01 theso proceedings has to do with goed Ialth, and I don'l wanl you te
misconstrue my use olthe word good failh to moan Iraudulonl or doceptlve. I don'l mean thai
01 all, I don't mean thai at all, bul whon we're lalklng aboullhe attompts to acquire Ihe proporty,
the attempts to communicate with Ihe property ownors as a part ollhe planning precess, leI's
loek at some 01 the scenario thai has takon placo, I won'l go Into all the do tails. I think that
thore Is a slgnlflcanl part. On March 20, there wore plans submilted and reviewed by the city
slall lor tho subdivision thai showed the locatlen 01 the proposod drainage ollhls pond.
relenllon pond, It's exactly where the proposed easement as stated In the reselulion Is now
locoted, That was In March 01 this yoar, Seydels and Whltos had never boen contacted by
anyone Irom the dovelopor's standpoint, con we come across your proporly, but they
proceeded to do sign In detail, the location, the elevation, the size 01 the storm sewer outlet thai
was to servlco thai retention pond,
Kubby Excuse me, whal was the size 01 the pipe In thoso plans?
Lell Forty.two Inches, and yelthere Is a discussion oiler that date as 10 what size II should be, But
yellt's there. They weren't awalO 01 condemnation thoughts for t1WlJ prQPorty unUllalo June,
and this thing had boen designed with this In place, What did not moetthe clly approval was
the lact that II also showed Ihalll went out Into Ihe storm water drainage disk nlong the north
side 01 Talt Spoodway, Bul clear back In March II. I moan something had been decldod along
time ago, Whon the subdivision had boon approved, It was June. June 26, They had plans thai
had boon approvod, final approval, Ihal showed tho lecatlon olthnt easoment over the Seydol
properly. They had never beon contacted, not by a city slall member, nol by anyone on bohall
01 tho developer. And that's supposed to be In geod faith? I'm sorry, but I think thai there was
semohow thore Is tho leoling that this Is been planned, and yelthoy've never been consulted
with and yotII allects tholr property.
I think that you have to sorlously question the nature of their request, and the hlstery that has
proceded this rosolutlon Ihat's being presented to the council, There aro olher aspocts about
this that I think you should take special nolo. You have rocelved a report. or a copy of alettor
addressed 10 Lyle Seydel day 01 September 3, 1990 by S, W. WIItala, prolesslenal onglneer.
He Is here this evening to discuss finding that he has come across that I think are very relovant
to your overall consldoralion. Not Irom the aspecl should you use your rights 01 omlnent
domain lor tho botterment 01 a private property owne~8 developmenl. But should you look
lurthor Into tho onglnoorlng dolnll, whnlls ovon bolng prescribed lor this proporly In Ihls area,
I think thero are very serious queslions, and I'd like to havo him have a chance to address the
council, Thank you for your tlmo,
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McDonald Thank you, Mr. Loll.
WIItala My name Is S.W. Wiitala, I'm a profosslonal englnoer. I'm soml,retlrod. I work wilh soveral
entities, I work wllh Shive .Hattory Assoclatos, I work for River Englnoorlng, Ilve workod ler
Barrientos Associates and occasionally I do a IIl11e work on my own, I havo rovlowod the
hydraulics 01 this projoct, and In revlowlng tho hydraulics 01 this projoct, I used a computor
program thai was devoloped by the Soli Conservalion Sorvlce, titled It TR.20 compulor
program, And I ovaluatod tho ollect 01 this dovelopmonl on the twe, Ihe five, the ton, the
twonty.flve, Iho fllly, and Ihe hundred year floods as thoy would occur on that Idyllwlld
walershod,
Whon the Iowa River Is al a low slage, the ouliet pipe !lows dlreclly Inlo the rlvor and Is above
Ihe rlvor lovol, And the outlet at the dolonlion pond ond funclions In an Inlot control capacity,
And whon It's functioning In that capaclly, Ihe projoct sooms 10 work wo!llhrough the IIIly year
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1I0od, Bul when the hundred yoar 1I0od occurs on Id~lwlld walorshod then thore Is spill over
the emergency spillway, And the emorgency spillway dumps over paslthe To" Speedway ento
the proporty 01 Mr, Seydel and Mr. While and others. Thore's a low levy ed}acenlle the Iowa
River, and whon thore's spill Irom Ihe emorgoncy flood spill way, and the rlve~s at a low stage,
this spill Irom the emergoncy spillway ponds on the property 01 Mr, Wl1Ite, Mr. Seydol and
adjacenl pond owners. Now whon Ihe Iowa River rises 10 0 stage 01647,5 loet which Is the
elevallon 01 thai levy, adjacenlle the north bank ollhe river thore, jusl belore II ovarflows, I
considered thai possibility, when Ihat slluallon occurs, then the outlet plpo at the detention pond
end luncllons In an outlet control and at the hlghor capaclly, a hlghor dlschargos, II diminishes
lrom previous Clllculatlons and It raises the water surface, So that when the river level Is at
647,5, thore Is about 46 cubic leet per second 01 now over Ihe emergency spillway flowing onto
tho White and Seydol proportles and that does nol gOI out and drain Into the Iowa River
because 01 the levy adjacont to the river. When the river raises above 647,4, 01 course It
doesn'l make any dilleronco because there would be Inundation lrom the rivor anyway.
I don't know If you 011 have a copy 01 the letter Ihat I wrote to Mr, Seydel, bulln thatlellor, I
lallOO 10 addross volacl/les, I reillly didn'l have tho time to do thai and I did that this momlng,
And whon thai ouUetls luncllonlng at a low river level and the fiow Is discharging Into Ihe rlvor,
thai veloclly Is greator Ihan len 1001 por second flowing out 01 that pipe, which Is a very erosive
veloclly. It would cause ereslon 01 Ihe bank at thai point, and olher problems In that Immediate
vlclnlly. A"or I gol back to the olllce Ihls mernlng, I also checked to see how conservative my
calculallons were, and I lound thatlhoy wore Indeed rather conservallve. When I compared
the poak discharges lor these vll1lous floods that I got wllh what you weuld get Irem the U,S,
Geological Flood Frequoncy Report which was prepared In 1907, and the Corps 01 Englneors
fleod frequoncy curvos, my discharges were considerably lower and more conservative than
these were, So I wenl aboul, adjustod my figuros upward luslto Iry 10' 10 soe whal would
happon III was close 10 those figures and of course the slluatlon worsened, Instoad 01 lorty.slx
cublo leel por second fiowlng ovor Ihe omorgency spillway lor the 100 year 1I0ed on Idyllwlld
walorshed, thore would bo double thai amounl. aboul nlnety.two CFS flowing over that
spillway, And that's 0 good deal 01 wator. Butlhe velocities from Ihe outlel pipe would stili be
about 10' por second which, as I had Indicated, velocities.
Lorsen Mr . Wiitala, I got 0 couple ef simple qUOStlons I think. At what level Is the rlvor now.
WIItala The flow Is about 7000 oJ,s, rlghl now,
Lorson I mean height above sealevel, Where Is Is at the bank, the 1I0w, It's light at the bank at city
park.
WIItala It's bolow the bank 01 the Soydel proporty, It's aboul a leol and a hall bolow that.
Larson The army seoms to koop II right 01 the lovelthat Is right at Ihe western most bank Into the park,
Wlllala The army Itlos 10 regulate so thallhey slay 01 bank 1I0w or loss.
Lorson And whatlovolls that, Where It Is JUSI at the edge 01 the westorn bank,
Wlllala I think Ihe Cerp 01 Engineers deflnos bank lull stage at or level at 8500 oJ.s.
Lorson But how high abovo sea level.
Wlllala Just 011 hand I can'l.well, lot me soe, At the Soydol property, 8500 oJ,s, Is about 843,8 leot.
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Larson So we are three and a hall or leur leel belew the levol 01 gelng up ovor their bank 01 the
presant time,
WllIaJa Yeah, 11'8 647.5 there, 80,
Larson And my second question IS, the parts In yeur leltor aboul what happens when water flows over
Tah SpoO<tNay dewn the emorgoncy splllway.how Is II afloctod by the presenca 01
non.presence 01 this stormwaler pipe thai was being proposed 01 being Ins lolled Ihrough
emlnonl domain. In other words, what does that plpo have to do with the lact that there Is
gelng to be waler flowing over thai read when you have the lifty and one hundrod year floods,
Wlllala The pipe will be discharging wator as well as water flowing evor the
Larson Whelher we condemn the land 10 putlhe plpo In or nOI, all the things you lalk about are going
10 happen, aren'lthoy.
Wiitala WolI, nollllt were designed a little bit dillerenlly.
Courtney How would the plpo bo discharging wator lilt's totally under wator, Aron't you getting back
wash against the pipe. Everylhlng Is going to be flooded,
Wiitala The hoad In the detontlon pond Is higher than the head 01 the waler In the river so thero would
be a flow through the pipe,
Larsen The plpo Is slanlod like thls.lrom the detention pond to the river, II has a slope to ft, 01 course. ,!
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Wiitala It has a slopo and also the water level In the dolentlon pond has to be higher lhalthe wator i'
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level In the river 80 thatlhere would be fiow oul. II ft's nOl, 01 course, the river water weuld be "
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flowing back In there. Larson. Again, whall don'l undorstand Is whether we condemn this land ]1
10 put8tormwaler pipe In or nOl, all these things you lalk aboul are going to happen, ,I
Wlllala II the detenUon pond Is pulln as shown on the plans, II ' i
Larson IIthoy build this devolopmenl and they'ro ovon going to spond $60,000 to put In the lilt stallon
or thoy are gelng 10 find another place to put the pipe, unless thoy Just doclde nollo build the
develepment, which Is certainly a possibility. But II they build the devolopmentand drain In
semo way the clly engineer tell us Is nol tho besl way to drain, All these things you aro talklng
about are sUIl going to happen, aron't thoy. Tho water Is stili going to spill over Taft Spoedway
at certain fiood lovels and It always has.
Wiitala Vou wouldn't necessarily have to doslgn II this way, You can change Ihe doslgn so Ihal
Larson PUllhe 810rmwater detenllon basin some whore else you moan?
Wlllala No, you could sllll have the slormwater detention basin, you could Increase the storage In Ihal
basin,
Larson Make the basin larger so that It would evon held the 150 yoar flood.
Wlilala Thai's right, Vou can make thai larger and also you could change some ollhe oullet work so
Ihat II would handle more water,
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Courtnoy I suspect stili lI1at II the water Is coming ovor the spillway ,thai Coralville Resevolr Dam. you
aro going 10 have flooded Tall Spoedway whether there Is a development there or not.
Wiitala Nol necessarily.
Courtnoy Tall Speedway was under wator this yoar wlthoulll going over the spillway.
WIItala When II goes ever 075,5 you are sure thoro Is going 10 bo water ovor It, But there are limos
whon the now Irom tile reservoir Is such 11101 It Is just below that 647,5 level and then these
peoplo would have prebloms,
Courtnoy Okay.
Larsen I guess whal we are saying Is that because thai area Is a drainage collection polnl fer the 99
acre watorshed thai whether this dovelopmonlls buill or nol there are going 10 bo rainstorms,
fleods that put Tall Spoedway under water, aren't there. The quesllon lor us Is what wlllll1e
bul!d!ng 01 tho developmont lIIld 1110 design 01 \he slormwalcr delcntlon basls which Is nol
doslgned to handle Ihe drainage ler the whole 99 acres but lust for that part that the new
dovelopmenlls on, What Is the new Impacl 01 Ihe subdivision,
WIItala Right now, they hove hod some prelty good floods this summer, Thoy havon'l had any
problems, have they.
Larson WolI, we are talking about 50.100 year floods that you are proposing the problems. Evon yeur
data doosn'llndlcate any probloms over Ihe emergency spillway unless we have a IiIty year
flood, Ii
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WIItala on Clear Creok, lor example, on Cloar Creok which empties Into the Iowa River Just upstream "
Irem Ihls developmont, there was more than a hundred year flood there In June, Ii
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Larsen That was mere than a hundred year fleod? Ii I
Wiitala Yoah, that was high or than a hundred year 11000. And In Davenport on Duck Croek, they hod
about a two hundred year flood, ,
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Larson I guoss I'm Irving to sort oul, Your Information Is helplul. It holps me undersland a IIltle bit
about II, I have 10 sort oul which 01 those problems In the area are related to the Idyllwlld
Subdivision and the drainage plans ler thai subdivision and which ore Just the problems lor that .
aroa, Which gees back 10 the original question, should thore bo a subdivision In the flood plain, . i
,
Wiitala My commenls In tho leller are addressod to the Impact 01 this particular devolopment on the
property 01 Mr. Seydel and Mr. While and Ihose adjacenlthere too,
Lorson And they ore Impacts that con be changod by 0 dlfleront way 01 draining,
Wiitala Thoy are nol oxperlonclng those Impacts now oxcopt whon tho waler gols up higher Ihan
647,5,
Larson Bul undorstand Iho Issue bolore us Is not whother thai subdivision should be build or no I. The
Issuo bofore us Is whether thero should be a drainage plpo across tho Soydel's proporty. Until:
legal counsellor the city lolls me otherwlso
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WIItala Thoro has to bo drain ago Irom that pond somowhoro.
Ambr Mr, Wiitala, I havo a minor quostlon that has ponkod my curiosity bocauso I havo hoard two
dllloronl answors. Nor Irom you sIr but from othor sourcos. Will thoro bo an awful rol 01
rushing nolso bo hoard abovo tho surlaco 01 tho ground Ilthoy uso a smooth tlko plpo as
opposod to a oorrugaled ono, a concrolo pipe,
WIItala A smooth one would flow with loss sound.
Ambr But you would stili hoar It abovo ground,
WIItala I supposo you would hoar somo. You would hoar It as It outlots Irom tho plpo, Thoro would
bo somo nolso thoro.
Larson AI tho outlot bul not lifly loot Inland, "you couldn'l hoar tho outlol, can you hoar tho wator
rush through this kind 01 plpo whon II's,
Wiitala WolI, I'm not suro, I can't answor that,
Ambr I was jusl wondorlng,lI you aro Just soltlng In your lamlly room and you gol a plpo fifloon fool
away aro you going to hoar tho rushing wator. 161111 don't know.
WIItala I'm not sure olthor bull think you would, I'm not6uro.
Horow Quostlon thai I havo has 10 do with tho volocl~ calculallons that you modo. I think you said
ton leol por socond 01 wator flowing oul 01 thai plpo as It Is now doslgned.
Wiitala Yos, whon tho Iowa Rlvor Is allow lovol,
Horow Right. Wo havo had occasions whoro tho mouth 01 storm dralnago plpos along tho Iowa Rlvor,
botwoon tho volocfly of tho walor coming out 01 tho plpo and tho voloclty 01 Iho rlvor rushing
pasllhoso plpos has tolally ollmlnatod
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TAPE CHANGE TO REEL 90.77, SIDE 1
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Whalsort 01 oroslon lakes placo along a bank whoro Ihoso typos 01 velocltlos tako placo,
WIItala You would croato somo eddlos In thoro, vortoxos and Ihoy would ovontually begin to oat tho
bank or erode Iho bank Ihoro.
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Horow Would thai erode tho lovy that you'ro talking aboul,
WIItala Vos II could bocauso It outlots right at tho lovy,
Horow So that" tho rosolullon or port 01 tho rosolutlon thai wo woro doallng with doalltho dovolopor
had 10 loavo tho land In tho samo marmor as ho approachod II, thon Ihoro Is tho potontlalthat
Ihat Is an Impossibility bocauso 01 tho vory naturo 01 storm drain volocl~ ollho walor croatos
potontlal lor oroslon 01 tho land.
WIItala Thai's right. You could build a wall thoro or somo kind 01 slructuro so Ihatll would arrostthat
oroslon.
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Horow But that Is my point. I havo soon thoso sorls 01 walls luSI wash rlghl away
WlIIala I think you could doslgn one that would nol do thaI.
Horow I think you had bollor talk 10 our clly onglnoor aboulthls.
McD Thank you vory much, Carol Soydol? I'm suro you know who I am. Butllhlnk olton you
wondor what a rotlrod loachor doas altor sho loavos hor olfico. And sho stays 01 homo and
doslgns vlsual aldos. SI hero Is my visual aldo. This Is 42 Inchos (can't hoar)
I also wanllo say thatlhls proporty and this Is an omotlonallssuo thai appeals to ladlos and
chlldron and Iho mon probably don'tllko this. But silting horo aro throo gonorallons of my
lamlly, mysol', my daughters and my granddaughtors that this land Is 10 go 10. I'vo hoard
rumors that wo want to seli II for millions of dollars and wo want all this. This land Is not lor
salo. If this pipe goos through, Ihal's It, Ills going to sit thoro. Wo won'l bo ablo to build our
houso. And I hoard tho rumor too thatlhat was Justa bluff, Thatthoy pul alllho stuflthoro,
Thai It Is Jusla bluff, Wo startod filfing and wo havo a building permit. Wo are going 10 build
our homo thoro, Mariotta's homo Is going to bo fifty 1001 from this. Now Ihalls Irom you 10 I
and our houso Is going 10 bo flIty loot Irom this, You havo takon our cholco away. This
condomnatlon has lakon our cholco to build. It's takon our qualily 01 11I0, It';s lakon my
chlldron's horllago, Inhoritanco, Vou sovon peoplo aro going to docldo what I glvo 10 my
chlldron. And I don'l think that that Is lair. I was a roally crabby leachor and I made tho kids
work roally hard, os John will contosllo, but thoy loarnod 0 101, But tho thing thai I'm soylng
horo Is this, that I was always lair. And I think In doallng with my chlldron, I was olwoys fair.
I would lustllko 10 havo peoplo bo lair whon thoy deal with mo. And thotls 0111 ask.
Larson Mrs. Soydol, I Just havo one quostlon. It's my undorstandlng thatlhls plpo will not keop you
Irom building,
C, Soydol It will koop mo Irom building bocauso 01 quality 0111I0, I don't want to IIvo by this.
Larson It won't moko tho 101 so small that you can'l build,
C, Soydol I havo othor things tholl could soy, I could go on lor hours, Ono of the persons wos lold, oh,
you don't wanllhls near you, II stinks. Well, I don't wanlll near me either, It stinks, Another
person was told, woll you know all about It, Wo know nothing about It, I guoss II was
Innoconco, Whon wo wroto tho lollor 10 you and wo got the agreomontto buy or whotevor you
call that thing ond wo sold wo woro frlghlenod ond wo woro. Bul wo woro dumb, too, bocauso
wo dldn't gol AI, this lantastlc spekosman horo, Which wo should have probably done ond
moybo something could havo boon done then. But wo acted vory Innocontly and wo didn't
know what was going on and so as a consequence, this mushroomed and then whon wo gol
hystorlcal ond probably did mako you all angry II was bolng IIko 0 tropped animal. I camo 10
Ihls mooting, Ihoy aro taking my land, Thoy can'ltako my land.
Larson I don'lthlnk you modo anybody angry, I think wo all undersland how Important this Is to
ovorybody.
C, Seydol And I crlod and I carrlod on and Ihen I docldod . you don't gain anything by that but that was
my reaction, I was porfectly human In that, Mlno Is tho human aspect. I'm sorry wo upsot you
but, again, I don't want this, Thank you.
Gentry Carol, did recolvo tho lottors that Doan Oakos sent to you datod May 22, do you romombor.
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C. SOydol Yos, bocauso that Is whon I rosponded to tho. thai was 1110 offor 10 buy. And thai was whon
I sonttho rosponso. I havo all 1110 corrospondonco, one pago altor anothor.
Gontry You said thai you obtai nod a building pormlt. Do you know II, I chocked down.
C, SOydol It wasn'l a building, It was a foundation pormlt.
Gontry I chocked tho Housing and Inspoctlon Sorvlcos rocords today and 1I10ro was no building pormlt.
C. Soydol Lylo, whon was It, It's 0 loundatlon pormlt. Wo woro going to starl with the garago.
Gontry Who Issuod It?
C. SOydol Vou aro going to hovo to ask Lylo. Lylo Soydol
? (can't hoar)
C. SOydol We woro luslln tho othor day lalklng to him. As I said, wo stoppod bocauso wo lust couldn't
go any furthor. I moan I don't wanl to IIvo noxtlo II1ls.
Gontry Do you havo 0 proposed subdivision plan now lor 1110 proporty.
C. SOydol No, It Is JuSI going 10 bo Iho two, Our property, you can dlvldo It In hall. It has alroady boon
dlvldod In hall.
Gontry Right. But as for your hall, do you havo a proposed.
C. Soydol I don't havo a plan. You can dlvldo II onco In hall.
Gonlry You don't havo any plans 10 subdlvldo?
C. Soydol No, I just want my houso and my son IIvos In tho othor houso, And anothor commonl was
modo thai are you going 10 build a 147' houso, Is thai It Marlollo? III wanllo build 0 900'
houso and II wlllllr on thoro, I'm going 10 build II. I don't think thai Is anybody's concorn. It
Is nol thai big 01 houso though.
McD Thank you, Carol.
Horow Tako your plpo Carol",1 don't wont to look at thai",
C. Soydol This Is going 10 bo rlghl across lrom tho clly park also.
Ann Soydol
Molsborry Wo havo hod a parado of rathor authorllatlvo spokosporsons so lor. I'm spooking on tho
splrllual sldo of tho whole thing, My paronls aron'l bolng solfish nor aro Ihoy bolng
short.slghtod In dofondlng thoro proporty. Thoy ore toachlng us, you and I, a valuablo losson
on land stowardshlp. In onothor famous land 111I0 litigation, Chlol Soatllo addrossos and
prophoclos this, Wo know thai tho whlto man doos nol undorstand our ways, our portion of tho
land Is 1110 somo 10 him as Iho noxt. For ho Is a strang or who comos In tho nlghl and lakos
from tho land whatovor ho noods, Tho oarth Is not his broll1or but his onomy and whon ho has
conquorod It ho movos on, Ho loavos his falhors grovos bohlnd and ho doos nol caro, Ho
kidnaps Iho oarth Irom his chlldron and ho do os not caro. His lathor's grovos and his chlldron's
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blrthr~hl aro lorgotlon. Ho troats his brolhor oarth and his brothor tho sky as things 10 bo
beugh~ plundorod, and Bold like shoop or br~hl boads, His appollto will dovour tho oarth and
loavo bohlnd only 0 dossort, Thoso vlows Irom tho paslln concort wllh my paront's volcos
appoallo you. Do notlako our legacy. holp us to toach our chlldron tho valuo 01 our
ancostors gravos, II Is a raro opporlunlly In this day In Iowa tor tamil/os 10 hang onto this
logacy and loach Iho losson 01 land slowardshlp. This ploce 01 proporly that you plan to vlolato
and condomn Is 0 lamlly holrloom, II contains momorlos 01 my molho(s childhood, my
childhood and my chlldron run thoro today. It Is stili ono ploco 01 land ownod by two slstors,
Ploaso do not condomn It
Madonna Soydol
Mlkolson I'm Carol SOydol's daughtor and I ask Ihal you VOiD no on rosolutlon 110.
Bronna Lynch I'm tho granddaughlor 01 Carol and Lylo Soydol and I ask that you voto no on rosolutlon
'18.
Casslo Lynch I ask you to volo no on rosoluUon '10,
Alax Kam Appoared boloro on Issuos on thO samo aroa. It Is cloar you aro not docldlng this IIghUy and
tho hoavlosl volcos oro 011 In lavor 01 laking tho proporly lor tho sako ollho dovolopor,
Unlortunatoly, I havo soon this occur Iroquontly. Ollon It appoars that cIty council Is not vory
brlghl bocauso ollho stupid things Ihoy do bocauso Illhoy condomn this It would bo anothor
stupid ocl.
McD Linda, did you.
Lylo Soydol Carol's husband, I spont21 yoors In 0 groon suit, I wont through two wars, I worked lor
tho city council, somo 01 you lor twonty addlUonal yoars, I can't bellovo thaI you aro
consldorlng condomnatlon 01 my proporty.
Bill Gilpin 301 Talt Spoedway. This could vory oaslly be mo In Iho samo slluallon thai Lylo and Carol aro
facod with, I'd lIke to back up a mlnuto to quostlonlng wholhor or nolthls would happon
whothor this rolonUon pond was In thoro or nolo I think lilt did, wlthoul alllhls rolonUon pond
and ovorythlng, It would bo an act 01 God. lilt happons alter this Is dono, I don't think It would
bo an act 01 God II would be an oct 01 holplng a dovolopor,
John Mlkolson Carol and Lylo's son,ln.law, Tho Lynch gIrls ora my slop.daughtors, My WilD and laro
oxpocUng again, Whon Carol hod hor plpo up horo, con you Imaglno how lasl 0 child
would fly through Ihatlnlo tho rlvor.
Gortrudo MocQuoon IlIvo high abovo Ihal flood plain on tho cornor 01 Park Road and Loxlngton, But
ovory morning I walk through thai park and most 01 tho limo this summor I havo
boon woarlng boots os I walk through Ihal park and tho stull that was coming oul
of thaI rlvor was slull that I had to wash oil boforo I wont back to Iho saloty 01 my
high plain, I don'l think anyono should bo building on thaIland, thaI flood plain land
down thoro, Tho Corps 01 Englnoors lor Iho lorty somo yoars that I havo IIvod In
Iowa Clly has sold this Ills flood plain land, do not build on this land, I agroo with
thai, I watchod that. I dldn'l havo to bo horo a hundrod yoars. I may yol bo horo
a hundrod yoars and I como back to haunt this council II you build,
Cory Cloland My wlfo and I rocenlly purchasod our brand now homo al 305 Tall Spoodway this summor
and wo aro also allornaUvo '2, which scaros us 0 groat doal, Wo aro making tho slatomonl
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wo aro vory firmly opposed to Iho oasomonl. Wo aro also oppesed 10 tho road. Wo movod
10 Tall Speodway bocauso 1/ was vory spoclal, vory special and, 10 use your words, a vory
fragIle placo, Ills an aroa 01 rural flvo mlnutos Irom my lab. al tho Unlvorslty, Thoro Is no
othor placo In Iowa City IIko It, I do undorstand that dovolopmonts somotlmos havo 10 go
In, Land doos nol slay undovoloped. II's unlortunalo built happens. But cloarly Iho
dovolopor Is rospenslblo for tho things Ihat aro Incurred by tho dovolopmont. And thoal
point has boon amply modo, Wo do want, and I speak cortalnly lor us.my wllo and I, and
apparont 10 tho rost 01 tho rosldonls. wo do nol wanl storm dralnago. Wo do not wanl a
road, Wo do not nood It. II any 01 you camo by this summor during Ihls major flOoding tho
vast majority 01 Tall Spoodway was nol floodod, Thoro was no noed lor storm dralnago.
Thoro was a nood at tho cornor 01 Dubuquo and Tall Speedway which Is qulto lar romovod
Irom Iho proportlos thai wo aro talking about. II was not on Tall Speedway, lis qullo cloar
Ihat Ihls storm drain ago plan will sorvo tho dovolopor. Tho dovolopor has 10 havo It. Wo
don't noed It. Wo don't want II, Wo aro scarod, And I hope you would show a 111110 concorn
lor a Iragllo onvlronmont, lor our fragllo onvlronmont.
Josoph
Coullor 1018 N, Dubuquo. I'vo appearod boforo Ihls body and Iho PZ Commission on a number of
occasions In Oppeslng tho dovolopmonl 01 this aroa as woll as adjaconl aroas on N, Dubuquo
Stroot, I wanled to pass around to council a sol 01 photographs lakon In Juno, I'm sorry I don't
havo Ihom largo onough to simply display 10 you, II you would jusl pass thorn aboul. Thoy
doplct tho rosults 01 tho rain slorm approxlmatoly Ihlrty mlnutos allor much 01 tho wator hod
actually subsided, Ilhlnk It's cloar tho sorlousnoss and tho Issuos 01 tho N, Dubuquo and Toll
Speodway Intorsoctlon and that aroa running Irom Foslor Road down to In Ironl 01 tho
Mayflowor dorms. That, Mr. Mayor and council mombors, Is on Issuo of groal publlo Inlorost
and nood. This Is somothlng tho clly noods 10 look at, noods to dovolop 0 proposal to addross,
Tho fioodlng Is Intolorablo, No Iralflo was ablo to pass lor somo hours on N, Dubuquo Stroot
going olthor north or south os tho rosult 01 this rain storm, On anothor occasion, lalor on Ihls
summor, both lanos woro Slopped and on four occasions, tho north bound lane has boon
Impassablo. On 0 numbor 01 occasions, II any of you havo como by oul thoro, you'vo soon mo
out In Ironl 01 my houso In tho wator golllng peoplo oul 01 tho wator, pushing poop/o out or tho
walor, and dlroctlng lralflo, Now this Is 0 prossing nood, I'm outraged thai my lax dollars, and
this city council would bo going In and using publlo monoy 10 assist In Pddrosslng the needs
01 one person or a group 01 porsons, namoly tho dovoloper, as wo 511 In tho vory same
nolghborhoed wllh a vory sorlous nood, which Is complotoly unrolated 10 dralnago 01 this 99
acro tracl, Tho wator you soo In thoso photographs didn't como that tract. That's nol whoro
Iho problom Is, I'm oulragod thai wo can't got any holp In this vory sorlous problom thalallocls
our community. And yot a dovolopor Is asking, and wo do havo boforo you a proposal, to use
tho vory groat powor you havo.that 01 omlnont domain, on bohall 01 a vory modost nood In
comparison 10 what 1 havo boloro you,
Oclo Trlmblo 103 Tall Spoodway, I commond you lor your patlonco. I know Ihat II has boon a long
ovonlng, I want to montlon somolhlng othor than tho omollonal part, Wo IIvo on Tall
Spoodway and wo IIvo thoro bocauso wo lovo tho aroa and wo lako our chancos wllh tho
flood, 01 courso bocauso 01 thai. Thoro Is somolhlng that I havon'l hoard said too much
about, That Is, wo moro or loss IIvo ovor an undorground rlvor In tho valloy. As tho rlvor
ralsos, tho wator tablo ralsos, Thoso 01 you thai havo boon watching tho pend ovor tho lasl
throe of lour months will notlco thai tho low tlmos Iho rlvor has droppod, tho pond has
droppod. Whon tho rlvor was ralsod, wholhor Is ralnod or not by whon Iho rosorvolr would
ralso II back up again, Iho pond would lollow Immodlatoly, Tho point I'm making Is a plpo
Is not going 10 work dospllo whal your onglnoors say bocauso Iho pond Is going 10 bo a
lractlon lowor than tho rlvor's lovol, Wator doosn't run up hili, Ills nol going 10 run Irom tllO
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pond to Iho rlvor. On tho olhor hand, whon tho pond Is such and a lIash 11000 comos, as
whon tho crooks como high, Iho rlvor ralsos up vory lasl and tho wator will back up Into tho
pond becauso wator doos so ok Its own lovol. As a rosult, wo know tills lor a lacl. I havo
a sldo YOld thai has boon undor wator all spring. Not bocauso tho rains IlIIed II, bocauso
whon rivors dropped my sldo YOld was dry and whon Iho wator was raised In tho rlvor
bocauso ollho wator lablo and becauso ollho sand base tho wator comos rlghl back up
again. I know lor a lact having IIvod thoro lor thirty yoars tho naturo 01 tho soli, tho way It
works, this dralnago ditch Is a suporiluous acl and causing an awful 101 01 unhapplnoss lor
a 101 01 pooplo and Ills not going to work. I know thai lor a lact. Thank you.
John
Konnody I'm nol rolatod 10 Iho Soydols. I don'tllvo by tho rivor, My proporty Is notthroatonod by
amlnonl domain although II you'd lIke 10 buy part of It bocauso I'm tlrod 01 mowing that big
lawn, you aro wolcomo to tako somo 01 II. I want to spook to a lochnlcalaspocl 01 tho quostlon
that has alroady beon addrossod by Mr. Wiitala, Mr. Wiitala and I havo workod togothor for
many yoars on many proJocts ranging Irom tho doslgn 01 tho diffusor plpo which cools tho Quad
ClUos nucloar plant to soUllng tho Supromo Court Issuo ovor tho northorn boundary 01
Konluek'Y, soulhem boundaries 01 Indiana and Ohio, and so on, ThJs evanlng I camo owly !!I1d
wont ovor his calculations with him and ho has sold his calculations woro consorvatlvo In that
thoy gavo. ho usod lowor dlschargos than had boon usod by tho Goologlcal Survoy, tho Corps
01 Englnoors, tho illinois Survoy. Thoso 810 lowor dlschOlgos, you undorstand, across tho
proporty, And I hate to dlsagroo with, him bocauso I would havo used tho Soli Consorvatlon
Sorvlco mothod, too, lor tho hydrology,tho run.off across tho land, But I probably would havo
glvon mora attontlon to tho predictions ollho Corps 01 Englnoors Goologlcal Survoy and illinois
Survoys,
Now If thoso.1f tho numbors 01 tho. giving tho lIow ratos across tho proporty aro closor to thoso
valuos than tho onos ho usod,tho wator lIowlng onto thoso pooplo's proporty will be somowhat
groator than tho numbor ho como up with, somothlng approaching a hundrod cublo loot por
socond. To putthatlnlo porspectlvo, tho proscribed minimum low flow lor tho Iowa Rlvor Is
o hundrod IIIty foot por socond, lust 0 hall again thai big, How would you lIke to havo tho low
flow 01 tho rivor going ovor tho spillway, dumping onto your lot lor a porlod 01 0 low hours? wo
say Il's somothlng groator than onco ovory IIIty yoars, WolI, WO'VO loarnod this summor wo con
havo tho hundrod and fifly yoar ono be 0 small stroam. Look whal's happonod 10 tho
Wapsipinicon,
Anothor quostlon I want 10 addross Is 0 problom thai'S ollon ovorlookod; ono thai comos back
and ollon causos you a lot of oxponso and causo groat, groal damago, and Miss Horowitz has
alroady spokon to Ihls, Is tho quostlon 01 Iho oroslon around tho dlschargo point, This Is not
a trivlallssuo, You saw tho slzo 01 tho plpo, A wator flow voloclty 01 ton 1001 por socond Is
qulto a high voloclty, And II you havo a hundrod cublo 1001 por socond atlhat voloclly, actually
tho dlschargos through Iho plpo aro somowhat groator than that. That Is a tromondous amount
01 onorgy. You can doslgn structuro that will withstand thai and not orodo" butthoy aro
slgnlflcanl structuros thoy'ro not choap slructuros, And thoy nood moro attontlon than luSI a
plpo, tormlnallng at tho rlvo~s odgo. Thank you,
McDonald Thank you.
Manozos I'm Arnold Manozos. IlIvo on 1607 Rldgo Road. As has boon said boloro, I'm nol a mombor
of tho Tall Spoedway group, IlIvo high onough that I'm not concornod aboultho floods, But
I'vo gol somo nlco plcturos to show you. Dr. Coultor Is my nolghbor, and os a concornod
clllzon, I thoughl I should addross you. I'vo boon horo sovoroltlmos In tho pasion othor
"
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26
things, othor Issuos, I'm going 10 try to IImll my remarks to luslthroo, Tho flrslls wo all know
tho provlous sconarlo thai was atlondanl to this Issuo. Tho nolghbors thoro had a blltor pili to
swallow, Aro wo asking thom 10 lako a socond one now? Aro wo now In a sJluallon thai wo
ora lakIng Irom Polor (0 pay Paul? Wo'ro condomnlng proporty, prlvato proporty, lor anothor
prlvalo porson, bo II a dovolopor or not. Are wo soltlng a procodonl?
Tho socond romark Is In Iho lorm 010 story, which Is not a Incldonl thai took placo In Iowa City,
and I'd IIko to koop namos off, A couplo camo to Iowa Clly from Amos. A husband and wllo
work 01 Morcy Hospital. Thoy woro shown proporty which thoy ulllmatoly bought on tho
southoast sldo 01 Iowa City, nol 01 all closo 10 whoro wo aro lalklng about. And thoy saw a
black stroak In thoro backyard. Thoy askod tho Roallor who showod thom tho proporty what
that moant. Oh, It didn't moan anything; don't worry about II; thoy IIkod tho ploco 01 land, Thoy
bought It. You know what happoned, Tho answor's rlghlln fronl 01 you. Thoy got floodod
baloro anything olso gol IIooded bocauso It was a storm sowor. Lot's put oursolvos and
Iranslor oursolvos Into thoso pooplo's, tho Taft Spoedway nolghborhood, Into tholr shoos.
Rathor Ihan bo passing ludgmonl, lot's oursolvos assumo Ihat wo 810 In tholr shoos, and soo
how wo would 1001 about thl3, Whal recourse do thoy have? Thoy como In Ironl of us horo,
and I'm part of tho communlly, bull'm saying, whon thoy'ro coming In Ironl 01 us horo 01 tho
City Council and asking lor provonllon, ralhor Ihan a curo, that's a poSition that I fool a
provontlon Is boltor than a curo, You havo soon, and wo havo all soon Mr. Larson has koop
lalklng about tho rapo 01 tho hili, tho Clill's Aparlmonts, what has happonod about It? II's ollar
tho lacl, And last but nOlloasl, I sold I'll koop mysoll to tho third commonl, Dr. Coultor
has shown you somo vory nlco plcturos. As ono who Ilvos and has a birds -oyo vlow 01 Iowa
Clly right on lop, I havo a wholo sorlos 01 photographs to show you, What happons 10
Dubuquo Sltool and that wholo aroa. And Lot's try to addross thoso whole Issuos and not try
to find somothlng to work on for prlvalo onds for anothor prlvato porson at tho oxponso 01
anothor porson, Thank you,
McDonald Thank you vory much,
Wacha) Robort Wachal, Rlvor Front Commission. This maltor como up boforo tho lasl commission
moollng loward tho ond and thoro wasn't limo to work out a Joint poslUon on It. Ilhlnk It's qulto
accurato 10 say howovor that tho majority 01 pooplo woro appallod at Ihls rosolutlon. I'm going
to spoak.' havon'l boon horo long, but I'm going 10 spook along somowhal dllloront IInos thon
you've boon hoarlng.
I guoss l'vo gol a slmplo.mlndod nollon 01 what consUlutos a position. Normally whon you lay
a poslllon on somoono, and thoy cannot mOOlll, Ihat's tho ond 0111, Cortalnly tho pooplo who
lay tho condlllon aro undor no obllgallon 10 do anything aboullt, WolI, whalls bolng proposod
horo Is that you say 10 tho porson who cannot mooltho condition, don't worry wo'II lako somo
lax monoy, wo'lI go 10 courl, and wo'lI holp you moollhls condition. I find that a proposlorous
proposal,
Can you Imaglno tho kind 01 procodonl you aro solllng lor all luturo condlllons? You'ro
undorculllng Iho wholo notion 01 a condlllon forovor II you approvo this, I'm ovon moro
appaltod at hoarlng a mombor of Iho clty planning staff rofor 10 this rosolullon as acllon to bo
takon lor tho publlo good, Cloarly nol for tho publlo good; It's lor tho good 01 Iho dovolopor;
It's for tho goed of one porson to tho oxtromo dOlrlmonl 01 sovoral othor pooplo, And I don'l
soo any basis lor porlormlng action on thoso grounds,
McDonald Thank you, Bob, I'm going 10 doclaro a flvo mlnuto rocoss. I do know thai thoro aro a low
moro pooplo thai aro going to lalk, This Isn't ovor yot.
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a .' I .~I i~' 'I
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McDonald Back to ordor. I guoss thai at this polnlas I stated boforo tho rocoss, thoro woro somo othor
pooplo thai woro going to spoak. Unda, do you wanllo go ahoad?
Gontry Vos. Thoro 010 no moro porsons Irom tho public who wanllo spook on this maUor? Ono
more,
Loo Soydol My namo's Loo Soydol. I'm nol from Iowa Clly rlghl now, I havo an onglnoor's drawing that
I'd lIke 10 show you. (can'l hoarl
McDonald Okay.
Loo Soydol That proposed flnlshod grade Is tho sldo 01 tho rotontlon basin and you can all soo tho anglo
01 II, I supposo II's going to bo covored with grass or woeds or somothlng 01 thai naturo,
I'd lIke to wotthat grade down al an anglo lIke this and havo any one 01 you pooplo crawl
oul 01 It. l'vo got a son who Is two months old who will bo going to visit Grandma and
Grandpa al somo point In tlmo, and I don't wanlto bo watching oultho back door 10 soo II
ho's ovor to soo Iho pond or nol. Bocauso II ho gots closo to II, ho'lI stay In II. Thoro's no
way out. Thank you.
McDonald Thank you,
0, Jonos Lol's soo, I'm Douglas Jonos from 016 Park Road, I think thai I may anger somo ollho pooplo
along Taft Spoedway by thoso romarks, bul thoy'lI find Ihat I'm on tholr sldo. I think that tho
confllclthal wo soo right now, Is ono thai has It's roots In Inapproprlato dovolopmont that
happenod olghty yoars ago. II wo had our. II wo could undo tho doclslons that woro mado
back thon, wo would havo a lorostod wotland along tho rlvor tho ontlro longth 01 Taft Spoodway
lusl about unlllll comos up towards tho old Elk Nosl. And wo would havo a corn Ilold bohlnd
II, and tho corn flold would havo no particular ocologlcal slgnlflcanco. And tho lorosted wotland
would bo vory valuablo to tho futuro 01 tho city. II wo had tho torrllory back 10 lis virgin stato,
II would bo qullo appropriato to placo tho 111I thai's boon placod on thatloroslod wotland In tho
last YOOl, and tho 111I that's boon placed on Iho corn flold In tho last yoar and to dovolop II In
roughly tho way thai It sooms to bo proposing,
In that caso wo would havo a nlco Groon Bolt along tho rlvor, and wo would havo all 01 tho
dovolopmonl along tho rlvor sot back an approprlato dlstanco Irom tho rivo, a dlstanco lor
onough back that It's qulto safo 10 fill II, and build tho housing at a lovol woll abovo tho hundrod
yoor flood 10vol, As things stand riglll now, we have an oxtonslvo bolt 01 developmonl along
tho rlvor thoro, sparso, bul nonotholoss a conllnuous boll 01 dovolopmonl along thai bank 01
tho rlvor which I'm alrald that wo havo 10 pay tho plpor and pay Iho cost 01 havlng modo thoso
doclslons olghty yoars ogo, a hundrod YOOls ago, whonovor thoso housos woro built that
pooplo now rofor to as tho hlstorlo dovolopmont along Taft Spoodway..LI That dovolopmontls
one thai has procodonco and as I undorstand, In roal ostato law, although I'm no lawyor,
procodonco moans a 101. Thoso pooplo woro thoro first, thoy built flrsl, and It strlkos mo thai
Ihoy shouldn'l pay any 01 Iho prlco of dovolopmonl 01 tho adjnconlland. II strlkos mo Ihat, as
a taxpayor, I cortalnly shouldn't pay tho prlco 01 dovolopmont 01 adjacont land, Thoso prlcos
should bo paid by tho pooplo who want to dovolop It, Thoro Is somo publlo bonolllthatl could
Imaglno bolng roapod If, lor oxamplo, wo woro to condomn tho ontlro Tall Spoodway hlstorlo
dovolopmonl and rovortlhalto wollands. Thatlsn'llho publlo bonolil pooplo aro lalklng about,
and I can't soo much publlo bonollt In anything loss.
Tho othor thing Is thaiI'm lorribly suspicious 01 tho way that this devolopmenlls being CBrrlod
out, II appears 10 mo thai tho City Council has a sltuallon whoro litho City Council turns down
:' I '~I :~I n ',.
20
this proposal, thoy'ro going to havo 0 largo amounl 01 dovolopmonl thaI's alroady boon
comploted 10 no ond. And I don't know whothor you mlghl'vo boon sol up. Tho 111I thai's
currontly In placo on tho land which Is dovolopod, I walchod that liII bolng put In 1051 wfntor
which Is boloro tho prollmlnary approval as I undorsland It. A largo volumo 01 fill was movod
to that proporty during !ho digging 01 tho combined Unlvorslty parking structuro walor rotonllon
plant or wator storago tanks. Tho things abovo Iho city pumping station and wator works. That
111I was placod !horo In. and It mlghl'vo ovon boon last yoar, I don'l romomber tho oxacl dalos.
butlhoro was snow on tho 1iI1, so It was cortalnly boforo Juno. And I watched that happonlng
bocauso I rodo tho bus thai goos down Park Road and thon up Info tho trallor park boforo
going downlown, A hugo amounl 01 additional grading has boon dono Ihls summor, all whllo
tho conditions nocossary lor tho complotlon 01 Iho, what Is It collod, boloro tho condillons, II
was a conditional subdivision plat. It was conditional on Iho dralnago Issuo bolng solved. This
hugo amounl of dovolopmonl was done boforo tho condition on dralnago was mol. II strlkos
mo that this kind 01 situation, whoro tho dovolopmonlls done boloro alt tho conditions aro on
tho building pormlt, or whatovor It Is callod, havo boon mot, It's a vory dangorous kind 01 thing
to bo doallng wfth and I don't know who's going 10 pay tho prlco lilt's donlod, btJt I ~rt!l!nly
donl want It to bo tho taxpayors Olthor way. I'm qulto happy to 101 housing dovolopors pay!ho
complolo prlco of now dovolopmonts. That so oms to bo tho only way to go,
McDonald Thank you,
Margarot
MacDonald I'm Margarol MacDonald, I don't think I'd nood much Introduction, but I would say, lor your
bono fit that wo havo IIvod on tho northwost cornor 01 this plot lor aboutlhlrty.flvo yoars, and
havo trlod to mako It a boautlful placo for pooplo 10 enjoy, It has boon something thai wo
havo watchod and wo havo workod to try and holp tho aroa bocomo moro boaullful, and I
havo noticod that pooplo soldom loavo Ihls aroa unloss thoy go loot flrsl. II has boen lovod
as Oclo Trlmblo, And yot wo know tho hazards, But whon wo know thallhls land oulln tho
conlor Is virtually a spongos which apparontly tho croator placod at tho base 01 many hills
and clills In ordor to slow down tho rush 01 wotor loward Iho rlvor. Wo can soo thatlhoro
would bo roal probloms lor thoso thoso porsons who docldo to build or buy a homo which
Is placod on !hIs spongo, Wo know It bocauso our own lIatlawn, tho lowor portion of our
lawn, Is tho somo gonorallovol, and so wo havo monltorod It and know how II will bo. Whon
I think 01 paving ovor Iho top or 0 spongo with strools ond drlvowoys and building housos
Ihal wfll havo roofs thOI wfll shod groat omounts 01 wator, ond wondor whoro Its going to
sook In how It's going to soak In; It has to run 011. And 01 courso wo hovo tho good oxamplo
01 Larry's clill's tho I wo havo all wondorod about ond Iho city has walchod and continually
spooks oboutlt whonovor thoy lalk oboul our aroo, It sooms to bo tho gonoraltoplo 01
convorsatlon. I ovon worry aboullho dovolopor pulling this much monoy Into a spol which
Is roolly notlho bost placo lor a largo numbor 01 homos, Wo aro lalklng not aboul63 only
but 83. And wo hovo boon told thoy won't bo closor than flvo foot opart, Wo know thoro
aro going 10 bo a numbor of pooplo who mlghl bo coming Into Ihls location with Iholr
Invostmont monoy hoping to put It Into somothlng Ihatthoy can atloast call1holr Ilrsl homo
and somotlmos thoy mlghl ovon want 10 stay. Bulthoy hold thoro won'l bo domago 10 Ihls
proporty. I do trusl ond I'm happy thot Bill Ambrlsco can say about his nolghborhood, Ihol
thoy can go ond sing Iho song Ihat thoy would Iiko, I'm wondorlng " thoso pooplo will ovor
bo ablo 10 sinD how Ilrm a loundatlon, I would lIke to montlon thot rlghl horo In Ihls council
chombor wo hoord our vory Importontand ronown Prolossor Konnody toll us lasl yoar that
It would rain ond Ihalll would rain hard, WoII, thoso 01 us who hovo boon horo Ihls summor
havo had a losson, Probably tho bosllosson wo could ovor havo In 011 01011 01 our IIvos as
10 what con hoppon whon II doos rain ond It rains hard. It doos lrlohton us to think Ihatlhal
many housos In that kind of locotlon and with tho pooplo porhaps bolng warnod and wo
tJ: I '~I :~I 'f ,
29
havo warning to got out II thoro Is a hundred yoar 1I00d, Thoy aro going 10 bo told In plonty
oltlmo, WolI, Is plonty 01 tlmo onough tlmo for somo 01 tho peoplo thai wo havo road aboul
across our country and ovon In our own communlly and as closo as Davonportlo only havo
limo 10 grab tho baby and one diaper. So f 1001 thaI thIs Is a trust thai wo havo with naturo,
Wo havo tho ovldonco, wo had tho oxamplos 01 Iho Clllls 01 whal happenod whon two hundrod
woro romovod and thoro roots had hold tho soli. Now wo havo this othor kind ollovol which
worked vory wollas a corn "old, II holped slow down tho wator and wo ovon havo plCluros out
In tho mlddlo 01 It In a boal, somo 01 thom holdlno a fishing polo wlth a IIsh dangllno at tho ond.
So wo'vo soon ovorythlng In thai soctlon bull do think wo nood 10, as somoono sald tonight,
maybo consldor provanUvo moasuros lor tho pooplo wo don'l ovon know, havon't mot, and
maybo ovon lor our Irfond dovoloper who could puis lols moro monoy Into tho aroa. Maybo
wo had bottor consldor condomnlng a dilloront spot for tho uso as a park, porhaps as somo
othor kind 01 strucluro that would sorvo our communlly bocauso this Is sbll tho most boautllul
ontranco to Iowa City, Thank you.
Janot
Trlmblo 103 Tall Speedway, my husband speko just n 1I1IIg whllg 8g0 and I h8von't boon hero qullo 00
yoars. Bul wo did purchaso tho properly noxtlo tho old Chopplck (Sp?) homo 32 yoars 000
and wo built our homo at118 Talt Speodway. Thon wo put In 115 Toll Spoodway, III Tall
Speodway and now wo IIvo at 103 Tall Speodway and noxt to us Is our one romalnlno vacont
lot which wo lot tho Iowa Clly Rowors Club storo tholr boats and practlco out 01 our yard. II
you havo ovor notlcod thoso crow boals thoy aro coming lrom our vacant yard. And this Is
what 11001 about tho aroa, II's boaulllul, II should bo onloyod, AAnd 11001 I'm oasy to think 0
dovolopor
TAPE CHANGE TO REEL 90.77, SIDE 2
I Just 1001 unoasy about that, I Just can't bollovo that you wouldn't glvo a moro corolul doclslon,
All tho councils that I havo ovor talked wllh havo boon as caring os I think os most 011 councils
oro In consldorlng what to do wllh property. This Is 0 vory sonsltlvo area bocauso II could
sacrlflco all tho pooplo wo havo sold homos 10 and oursolvos by 0 hasly doclslon, So am Just
asking Ihat you roally Ihlnk on It carolully and try to como up wllh somo altornatlvo moasuros.
Thank you,
Gontry I would lIke to call sovoral peoplo to try to oxplaln to tho council what tho dovolopors ond 1110
clly public works, city onglnoor havo dotormlnod In tholr mind Is 0 valid publlo purposo, Initially
I would luSlllko to say AI Loll Is absolutoly rlghl whon ho silos tho powor 01 omlnonl domain,
It Is Indood a vast powor. II doos roqulro that you find Ihollho publlo purposo, In this coso
roqulrlng a 42 L concroto outlol, Is roasonablo and nocossary os an Incldontto tho pewors and
dutlos conforrod upen dllos. I think wo all know In this caso that subdivisions and dovolopmont
and ovon rain wator aro Indood mlxod blosslngs, Thai this subdivision Is going to bo providing
homos lor 83 pooplo. But thoro Is going to bo a cost and tho cosl has to bo wolghod against
tho bonoflls provldo, Tho law 01 omlnont domain roqulros tho publlo purposo but tho court
conslruo publlo purpeso to bo vory broad, Thoy do nol socond guoss loglslallvo bodlos such
as yoursoll who mako IIndlngs ollacl and IIndlngs of publlo purposo and thoy will notlntorpeso
Iholr judgomont In your placo In your placo II that In lact Is what you concludo allor a hoarlng
on tho ovldonco. Tho Iowa law provldos undor homo rulo, as woll as Chaptor 409, which Is
tho aubdlvlslon ordlnanco, now Iho 409,0, Is tho platting ordlnanco, II provldos thai cltlos can
adopt roasonablo rulos and rogulallons and ordlnancos to protocttho publlo safoty, hoalth and
wolfaro and, In this caso, Ilhlnk Iowa Clly can bo vory proud that wo aro tho one clly on Iho
slalo 01 Iowa thai has adoptod a stormwalor managomonl ordlnanco, ~ Is not ported but
It Is corlalnly an allompt 10 doal wllh somo 01 tho probloms thai living In a city that Is built on
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Ills cortalnly on attomptlo doal willi somo 01 tho probloms thai living In a city Ihat Is built on
o rlvor has to doal with. By roason 01 tho stormwator managomont ordlnanco as woll as tho
authority conlorred undor Chaptor 32 whIch Is our subdivIsion rogulallon, clly onglnoor as woll
os tho dopl. 01 publlo works has roqulrod this parllcular dovolopor to sallsly cortaln
requlromonts. Thoso requlromonts 01 stormwalor managomonlaro to convoy slormwalor runo"
oil 01 tho proporty, Tho bost guoss now, I bollovo that ovoryono agroos on Irom tho dovolopors
and Iho city slall standpolnllrom an onglnoorlng point, Is Ihallho approprlato placo has boon
narrowod down to what Mr, Koltolls calling Allornato '1. I'd lIke 10 havo Chris Stophan, I'd lIke
10 put Domo porspocllvo on this to oxplaln 10 you how wo got horo, I'd lIke 10 go through tho
procoss with Chris Stophan and what ho did with tho prollmlnary plat, what tho original
proposal, and ask Donnls Koltolto discuss tho onglnoorlng aspocts and go though tho various
altornato routos. Donnls also did somo nogollallon In lorms 01 sondlng out lottors. I also want
10 ask Doan Oakos to conlor that good Ialth nogotlallons did occur, I want Rick Fosso 10
oxplaln why ho bellovos Donnls Koltol's doslgn Is approprlato to convoy stormwalor runoll In
this caso and I would lIke Chuck Schmadoko to glvo us his Intorprotallon of whothor tho
proposod ouUot Is Indood roasonablo and nocossary to carry oullho slormwalor managomont
requlromonts thai wo aro Imposing on Iho dovolopor.
Larson Linda, boloro wo got Into thoso spoclflcs, I nood a IIttlo moro holp with thoso broador quostlons
thai Mr. Loll brought up. It appoars 10 mo Ihal ho Is saying Ihat no public bonofitls gal nod by
this use 01 omlnont domain and your answor Is that It allows tho subdivision to bo bullt,lt allows
Mr. Oakos's proporty r~hts 10 bo rospoclod, It allows tho dovolopmonllo bo builtin a mannor
conslstont with tho hoalth and wolfaro 01 tho city In Ihat pooplo living thoro havo tholr proporty
bo dralnod. I think his point was that litho omlnonl domain Is nol used horo that dovolopmont
Is nol built and thoro Isn't any public benofit sOlVod by putting In Iho plpo bocauso thoro Isn't
any roason lor It, Thoro's no dovolopmonllhoro. I don't moan to put words In his mouth,
corroct mo If I'm wrong, You nood to got mo paslthal hurdlo. Whoro Is tho publlo bonofltlf
tho dovolopmont Is nol buill,
Courtnoy Should wo go through thoso pooplo flrsl, thon ask tho quostlons,
Lorson Wo con, but If I can't got post that quos lion
Gontry WolI, Ihon I think Chuck Schmadoko. Iho Ihroshold quos lion noods 10 bo addrossod,
Lorson I don't wanllo disturb your prosontatlon If It makos somo logical sonso, I got to gol paslthal
quosUon at somo point,
Schmadoko If tho dovolopmontls not buill, thoro would bo no public bonoJlt.
Lorson I think Ihatls whal Mr. Loff Is saying, Is that why you say that tho omlnont domain Is to roach
tho publlo bonofltlllt's on Impropor uso of tho Immlnonl domain bocauso thoro Is no benoJil
thoro without you doing that.
Schmadoko Tho publlo bonofltls rolatod 10 tho dovolopmont.
Courtnoy Chuck, lot's gol past this dovolopmont and go on up north, Ono 01 tho roasons why thoso
calculallons woro brought In as I rocallls thotthoy ore also consldorlng Iho land up on tho hili
to tho north 01 this that also noods to bo dralnod postldyllwlld, post Toft Spoodway and Into
tho rlvor. If this doosn'l happon, what thon happons whon 0 proposal Is brought In to dovolop
that land, Do wo go bock through tho sarno thing again.
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Schmadoko Wo would look atlho alloct 01 tho devolopmonl on tho downstream aroas,
Lorson What aroas aro you lalklng about, Carrol?
Courtnoy WolI, any land to tho north across Foslor,
Schmadoko IIlhoy start 10 tho top 01 tho watorshed and thoy dovolop and !hey storo stormwator as !hoy
dovolop down tho watorshod, tho Impacl on tho downstroam aroa would bo negatlvo
bocauso 01 tho stormwator managomont ordlnanco, Tho problom with this subdivision
though Is thai tho upstroam wator Is passed through tho dovolopmonl,lIls nolstorod wllhln
tho dovolopmon~ It Is passod stralghlthrough !ho dovolopmont. II's concontrated Into a
piping systom within tho dovolopmont. Thoroln lies tho problom, whon you dlschargo II out
tho low ond 01 tho dovolopmont. Stormwator passing through Iho dovolopmontlrom !ho
upstroam watorshed will havo a nogaUvo Impacl on tho aroa downstroam lrom tho
dovolopmont.
Lat:on I think thai the argument goos this way Chuck, that because 01 tho dovolopmontthoro Is a
nood lor drain ago. And wo'vo dotormlnod that tho propor way lor tho dralnago Is through tho
SOydol property. Whatthoy aro saying Is thai tho dovolopmonlls approved subjacl only 10
thom finding a dralnago problom or a solullon to tho dralnago problom, But how can wo
provldo tho solution. Thoy'vo golto provldo Ihat solution or thoro Isn'l any problom lor us to
deal wllh In lorms 01 dralnago, Why do we provldo !holr solution, I think thai Is tho point. And
!hat may be our rosponslbllity as a clly. II wo approvo a dovolopmonl and Ihat devolopmont
causos somo probloms and wo havo to solve thom, thai's fino and dandy. Then wo can uso
all 01 our powors 10 solve thoso probloms, Butllhlnk wo approved It subJect to tholr SOlving
Ihat problom. And now bocauso thoy can't solvo Iholr problom thoy aro saying tho only way
to solvo It Is by tho city condomnlng tho land, I'm not saying Ihat thatlsn't propor, I don't know.
Undo Gonlry has gol to toll mo II that Is tho proper use 01 tho law wllh rospectto other
aUomoya opinions. Sho Is Iho one I'vo golto IIston 10, Is thoro an analegy 01 IIsomoono want
to dovolop tho land out oast and north 01 Regina and Ihoy coni, because thoy don't havo
socondary accoss, And thoy como to us and say condomn somo land to build a socondary
accoss and wo as a city say wo nood Ihatland to dovolop, Wo aro running out 01 dovolopablo
land In Iho city, wo noed socondary accoss, wo noed a road lrom Fostor Road Extondod and
then wo go In and condomn a bunch 01 land to build anothor road, Isn'l that tho same kind 01
thing as !hIs precodont,
Gontry Vos,
Lorson And thai's you answor 10 Mr. Loll's claim that this Is a dllloront type 01 precedont hero. Your
answor be Ihat wo do thai all tho tlmo lor roads to allow subdivisions to bo buill and so on and
so lorlh,
Gontry No, I wouldn't ovon begin 10 say that tho city Is going to bo doing this roullnoly or light
hoartodly 01 bull think you aro going 10 havo 10 doal with II on a caso by caso basis. And this
coso has prosented II 10 you, to us, It Is In our laps, Wo havo 10 doal with It, Tho
dovolopor.tho subdivision was approvod subjocl to nogotlatlon , good lallh nogotlatlon and In
tho ovontthat good lalth nogotlatlon did not occur tho council was awaro thai condomnallon
was tho noxt stago, Unfortunatoly, altor almosllhroo months thoro has beon no movo on tho
part 01 any 01 tho owners to grant an oasomont. And I'm nol making light 01 Ihat. II's their
proporty. Thoy havo ovory right to roslst a purchaso and Insist on tho city going through this
procoduro, Condemning a socondary accoss rond lor a subdivision to provldo homos and
dovolopmont In a city sooms to mo 10 bo a valid publlo purposo,
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Larson And tho samo klnd 01 thing as what Is being dono. That just as a road Is required lor that
subdivision to bo legal and 10 comply with all 01 our rogulatlons. Horo, dralnago Is required 10
comply with all 01 our regulations,
Gontly To bo solo and to mool our standards, Tho city's own slandards olstormwator runollthat wo
havo Imposod on dovolopmonl,
Kubby Bul why In a legal sonso Is thai our rosponslblllty to provldo thai accoss 10 comply with our I
laws, Why Is that our rosponslblllty to old that,
Gontly It Is your rosponslblllty becauso tho subdivision was approvod with thai In mind. Tho quosllon
was raised can you unapprovo a subdivision. And tho answor was no.
Horow I don't undorstand that aspoct 0111. Tho rosolutlon moroly slalod thai wo approved tho IInal
pial subjoct to tho stormwator dralnago oasomont Irom this subdMslon 10 tho Iowa rlvor. II was
to bo locatod and socurod 01 tho subdlvldo(s oxponso and thai no building pormlt should bo
Issued unU! \hIs Wll8 obt!l!ng!!, Thgrg wMn'\ MY cavoatln thoro about condomnatlon,
Gonlry II was discussed at tho slall lovol In an Inlormal sosslon,
Horow Bul wo didn't havo thai.
McD I would ask \ho audlonco, as wo aro going Ihrough tho discussions, wo havo beon silting horo
now lor a couplo 01 hours and wo havo rospoctfully IIstoned 10 all commonts by all parllos thai
wanlod to mako commonts, So I would rospoctlully roquosllhalsamo courtosy.
Gontry Wo woro In this room In a slall mooting and I romomber Rick oxplalnlng tho sconnrfo 01 what
would happon II thoy could not oblaln tho oasomonts and thon \ho noxl stop would bo
condomnatlons, That wo would be coming back 10 you ofllclally lor \hat authority,
And did you say \halllthoy couldn't obtain this thoro would be two options: olthor wo would I
Horow -1
como back lor condomnatlon or that tho subdivision couldn'l bo buill,
Gontry I answored that quostlon, Both Karon and Darrol asked " you could unapprovo a subdivision
and IsDld thoro would be sorlous probloms wllh thaI. .
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Horow Bullhon, why was our rosolullon wordod this way. Thai's what I don't undorstand, Tho I
rosolutlon was subjoctlO oblalnlng tho stormwator managomont oasomonland whon you havo I
a subjoct to and " you don'tlulllllthat subjoct 10 thon you don't.1t hasn't beon lulfillod.
Gonlry I romombor tho discussion lalrly cloarly.
Horow I know thai wo talkod aboul condomnallon. I'm not saying \hal wo did nol talk about tills, Bul
tho rosolutlon that wo agrood to didn't havo thai oxlra cavoatthaltho city would thon go lor
condomnatlon.
Gontry Vou'ro righi, It doos not soy and Iho city would consldor condomnatlon bull know wo all talkod
about II.
Horow Vos wo talkod about It but wo didn't volo on thaI.
Gontry You'ro right,
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Horow II was doliboratod wordod this way bocauso wo wantod tho subdlvldor to go oul and obtain this
altho subdivldor's oxponso and that's tho way II was spoc1l1cally wrlllon.
Larson And that Is stili tho way Ills, Thoro havo boon qulto a low commonts thai It should bo done
at subdlvldo~s oxpenso. This Is all going 10 bo at tho subdlvldo~s oxpenso. Tho only
proportional shoro wo aro going to pay Is tho amount to ovorslzo tho plpo, Isn'lthal corroct
Schmadoko Thai's right, To ovorslzo tho pipe lor Tall Spoodway and
Kubby And part 01 the procoodlngs
Lorson Ithoughlll was a mlspercoptlon tho audlonco had, Tho dovoloper Is going to pay exponsos
assoclalod with this condomnatlon II thoro Is a condomnatlon,
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Horow Who's rospenslblo lor maintaining tho drain ago, this dralnago pipe, at both tho rlvor soctlon and
In tho stormwator dotonilon basin, Tho ownors, Bui who Ihon maintains lho rivors SldO.
Schmadoko Tho city wllllako ovor ownorshlp.
Horow So taxpayors will havo to actually pay lor Ihls.
Schmadoke As well as all the pipes wllhln Iho subdivlslon,
Larson Thai's tho same way you do all tho stormwator piping.
Novick Chuck, will you rovorso back ono stop, What oro tho pipes wllhln tho subdivision?
Schmadoko As lor as tho slzos?
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Novick No, which pipes wllhln tho subdivision aro wo discussing at this point.
Schmadoke Wo would tako ovor all storm sowor piping, all tho piping that would drain Irom tho stroots,
tho Inlots Irom tho stroots, tho piping Irom tho oxlsUng pipes on Fostor Road to tho
stormwator storago basis, Thoso would all bocomo city.
Lorson Samo Ihlng you havo all ovor tho city, gratos In Iho strool curbs go Into that.
Schmadoko That's corroct
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Courtnoy l'vo gol to go back. 1'm stili on this upstroam land, II thoro Is dovolopmonl up Ihoro and thoro
Is a slormwator rotontlon basin that Is roqulrod on that land thon thai rotontlon basin has to
havo an outlolto somowhoro,
Schmadoko That's corroct.
Courtnoy II that outlot goos to pasl Foslor Road II onds up on Ihls tract 01 land and Ihat's whoro II stops,
II thoro Is no dovolopmont thoro, Illusl stays thoro and Is allowod 10 soop through tho land,
II doosn'tthon havo to go on through Tall Spoodway Into tho rlvor,
Schmadoko No, II soops Into tho ground within thai aroa, Wo would nol roqulro any plpo,
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Courtnoy Okay. So ,In ossonco, II wo aro donylng this 10 happon, wo aro lolling this land ownor thai wo
havo gollo provldo tho stormwator managomontlor othor peoplo's land abovo thom.
Schmadoko As thoy havo done In tho pasl, thaI Is lruo.
Novick Isn't thoro somothlng undor Fostor Road, somo kind 01 dralnago thai carrlod what comos down
tho hili.
Schmadoko Yos, thoro aro two storm sowor pipes,
Courtnoy That go whoro?
Novick Thon thai Is draining ovorythlng down tho hili onto this proporty,
Schmadoko WolI, thoso plpos como Into this subdivision.
NovIck Thoy don't go undor Talt Spoodway?
Schmadoko No.
Novick I moan undor Fostor Road, Is thoro no storm drain ago undor Fostor Road,
Schmadoko Thoro Is storm dralnago undor Fostor Road from tho north Into this subdivision.
Larson It ontorslnlo this aroa 01 tho land. It Is one 01 tho roasons It Is so wot.
Courtnoy I guoss my polnlls horo, I'm trying to work Itlhrough my hoad. It so oms to mo wo aro trying
to draw tho IIno on who Is going to provldo stormwator managomonllor whom. Elthor tho
Soydols and Whltos aro going to havo a pipe going through 10 provldo lor stormwator rotontlon
lor ovorythlng abovo tham of Mr. Oakos Is going to bo providing managomonllor tho stuff
abovo him and II stays thoro,1 roallzo thatlhls wholo thing pitting one sol of proporty r~hts
against anolhor sol 01 property rights and I hato It. It Is nol a position thai wo should bo In,
but wo aro horo, I'm Irylng 10 sorlthls thing oul whoro allthoso property rights loll and I can'l
do Ilyot,
Schmadoko, Tho oxcoss stormwator from north of Talt Spoodway will pass through tho subdivision to tho
rlvor as proposod, Tho wator within tho subdivision will go to tho stormwator slorago basin
and thon bo dlschargod al a slowor rato, Thal's a vory dlrocl way to oxplaln II bocauso thoy
aro taking It all Into tho stormwator storago basin. But In allocl, Ihat Is whalll happonlng,
Kubby Tho ultimate rosult Is II thai wholo aroals dovolopod tho Soydols and tho Whltos will bo doallng
with tho drain ago from thai wholo aroa,
Courtnoy WolI, thai's not.I'm going 10 ovontually IIkon this 10 what tho stormwator plan wo lusl done on
Iho oast sldo 01 town. It starts up on Rita Lynn and thoro Is a stormwator rotontlon basin and
It drains Into First Avo, and It goos down Prlncoton, It cui botwoon two housos, rlghl botwoon
two housos, 421L plpo on Prlncoton Road, It goos right on down Inlo tho crook, I moan thoso
pooplo all tho way along aro bolng roqulrod to havo plpos run through to drain all of Ihls
upstroam,
Kubby But did thoy grant oasomonts ovor tholr land?
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Courtnoy No, wo took thom Irom thorn. That's allthoso procoedlngs wo wonllhrough IOSI loll lor all
thoso sowor oasomonts,
Larson That's tho quosUon. Whothor thoro's tho distinction thoro botwoon sowor work Ihalls noeded.
Courtnoy I'm trying to flguro oul whothor this Is tho samo thing or not.
Larson That's right. To sorvo proporty that Is a1roady thoro or whothor this Is dllloront, dlsUngulshablo
bocauso this nocossary dralnago Is 10 sorvo a dovolopmonl thai Is nol yot thoro, Is thai
dlstlngulshmonl or nOI,
Gontly From my slandpelnt It Is not. Thoro Is no quostlon this Is not a city projoct. ClUos don't build
subdivisions, Howovor you can't gol around tho lact that tho dovolopor Is roqulrod 10 put In tho
Inlrastructuro, Wo requlro that, Thoso bocomo publlo Improvamonts, Onco thoy aro
ccnstruclod 10 our standard wo accopt thom.thoy aro dedlcatod to tho city, Evoryone usos
thom, This storm sowor outlot will bo a publlo Improvomont. It will bo maintained and accoptod
by tho clty, Taxpayors dollars will bo usod for that, Thoro won'l bo any quostlon about that.
And 1M trlggorlng ovont In th~g C!lS91$ not a W!I$to wator troalmont plant. Tho trlggorlng ovont
Is tho subdivision that Is dovoloplng prlvato land, Thoro Isn't anyway around that. But I think
thoro Is a publlo purposo In mooting our rathor strlngont roqulromonts, qulto Irankly, In
convoylng stormwator run 011, Wo aro roqulrlng, bocauso of tho lay of tho land, to not only drain
tho twonty acros 01 tho subdivision but also anothor 12 acros plus anothor olghty acros to tho
north and tho wost through tho subdivision, Thoro aro oxlstlng outlots on Fostor Road thai aro
undornoath tho roadway that alroady droln unto this proporty, That will havo to bo handled and
It has boon calculatod 10 bo handlod In this lash Ion. Again, that Is a clly storm sowor
managomonl approach. Tho final thing Is that It will bo draining Talt Spoodway rlghl 01 way
Itsoll, That'a an unavoldablo publlo purposo, And tho fourth thing Is Is tho CIP Program, tho
doslgn plans lor tho outlot will havo tomporary covors on tho outlot across Tall Spoodway so
that In sprlng 011992 whon tho clty doos go In and Improvo that aroa, thoso lomporary covors
ovor tho outlots ovor tho stroot will b9 romovod, Tho whole stroot will bo pavod. So this has
boon doslgnod with tho Improvomont 01 Taft Speodway In mind, spoclllcally doslgned with that
In mind,
Novick Aro thoro olhor procodonts that whoro storm wator plpo, such as on Fostor Road, Is allowod
to drain Into prlvato proporty, This sooms 10 bo odd to mo, I was always assuming thai
anything draining Irom Fostor Road wont somowhoro othor Ihan omptylng out Into prlvato
proporty.
Schmadoko It's protty common on oldor strools.
Gontry It goos on Doan Oakos property now, rlghl?
Novick Is this a common way 10 handlo storm wator?
Schmadoko It was yoars ago, yos,
Larson Many clUos don'l havo thoso storm wator dotontlon ponds, Most olthom don't, That's a roal
dobato whothor this Is Iho way to go or not,
Gontry Only a hnndfulln tho wholo Unltod Slatos that roqulros dotontlon basins and It's a roqulromont
that wo Impeso upon our dovolopors In this city, I think thai In Itsoll has valuo, I'm cortalnly
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not horo 10 arguo agalnsllt becauso II's on Improvomont, Vou'vo polntod oulthal wo havo had
lass lloodlng In Iowa City. Ptobably bocauso 01 tho small and largo dolontlon pends,
McD Doos anyono havo anymoro quostlons lor Chuck? Old you havo any moro that you wantod
10 say at this tlmo, Chuck?
Courtnoy Whon do wo.tho Taft Speodway dovolopmonl as thai would ovontually be pavod. It has boon
statod thoro Is going to bo lIke throo sots 01 pipes to bo dralnod to tho rlvor.
Schmadoko II may be roqulrod, yos,
Courtnoy And wo would havo 10 do tho same thing thoro. Wo would havo to condomn property 10 got
tho so plpos ovor.
Schmadoko 1111 wasn'l voluntary, yos.
Courtnoy And I guoss tho rovorso sldo 01 this Is tho assumption Is II this 011 doosn'l happon, wo will novor
go In a pavo Taft Speodway. It can romaln lIke It Is, Thoy havo succoodod thIs many yoars
10 kooplng II Irom beIng pavod, I assumo II can go a lot moro yoars.
Schmadoko That's corroct.
Horow So litho dovolopmont woro nol dovoloped, II wouldn't nocossarlly bo pavod,?
Novick I havo a lot 01 tochnlcal slormwalor quostlons bocauso I'vo novor soon this kind 01 thing beforo,
Doos a 42' pipe lIke this got abevo ground, Is It oxposod 01 all?
Schmadoko I think Rick could answor Ihat,
Novick I'll savo thom lor Rick,
McD Thank you, Chuck,
Undo Gontry Old wo got past your hurdlo, Randy?
Larson Not ovon remotely but I will savo It lor tho ond 01 your questioning 01 peoplo and III can't
rosolvo It In Ihls lorum I wllllry again tomorrow, I'm not goIng 10 voto untlll'vo rosolvod It.
Gontry
Larson This has bocomo my Iilo's work.tho Idyllwlld Subdivision,
Gontry Chris, I just wantod yeu to 111I tho council In on tho history slnco I think ovory oxcopt Naomi was
on tho council whon thoy passod tho prollmlnary plat. right?
Novick No, I think I was thoro, It was altor January.
Gonlry Thoy woro 011 on tho council whon Ihoy approvod tho preliminary pial and at Ihal slage I would
lIke you 10 oxplaln whallho doslgn for passing Ihls 100 yr. stormwalor runoll oil 01 tho
subdivision. I think In alllalrnoss, slnco wo'vo hod somo vory dlstlngulshod onglnoors horo,
IlIko you 10 toll tho council a 111110 about your oducallonal background and your oxporlonco,
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Chris Stephan MMS Consultants. I graduated from Iowa State In 1969 with 0 BS In civil englneorlng.
I gOI roglstered In 1973, Mor groduatlon I worked lor the Minnesota Highway lor 0 yoar
ond a holl ond I come to work fer Shive Hattery hore In Iowa City Irem 1971.1977. And
since 1977 I havo boen with MMS Consullanls as partnor and Preject engineer, Dealing
primarily wllh subdivisions thai entire time. I'm qulle lamlllar with the slormwater
erdlnance and all 01 Its requirements. Having beon here whon It was Inlllatod probably
modo some commenls with regards Ie II al the time It was adopted. Bock to Idyllwlld,
The IIrsl submlllDl elll1e preliminary pial back In Novembor 1989 lor Idyllwlld had 0
stormwator basin of 0 IllUe b11 dlllerent conllguration Ihat we are seeing today. Bulin
genorally the some location odjacenl to the northerly rlghl 01 way 01 Toll Speedway.
Initial drainage considerations with that IIrsl plal consldored the 12 ocres to the north as
coming Into the subdivision and having to deal wllh II. The 67 ocres 10 the northwosl 01
the subdivision was going to be bypassod along whal was then or Is now unnamod streot.
The rolease Irom Ihe stormwator basin was going to be directed In an easterly direction
to be outlellod at 0 pelnllhat Is probably like 100' north 01 the northerly r1ghl 01 way 01
Tall Spaoa....ay and at the oaslorly boundary 01 Idyllwl!d Subdivision, That I! whore, lIS
lIat as that Is, that was the lewest spot 11101 we could outlet II at. Thai plot wos submiltod
10 the City 01 Iowa City and due procoss wos begun, We were asked to make some
genoral revisions to thai plat. Some 01 the things we were osked 10 do were 10 Indicate
thatll1e drainage or the reloase lrom tho stormwaler basin and our storm sewor lacllltlos
be dlrectod to the northorly ditch or the nerth dllch 01 Tall Speedway ond dlrocted In 0
eastorly dlroctlon lowards Dubuque Street, Those plllllcular 1I0ms were odded 10 the plat.
Thon there were seme othor things thai subsequenl reviews and discussions with the
onglneerlng depl, In tholr review 01 the plotlhey hod some problems with allowing the
drainage from Ihal 67 acres northwest olldyllwlld to be ollowod 10 discharge without
control along Drive. They Inslstod thai we handle that or that II come through
tho Idyllwlld Subdlvlslon. The third vorslon 01 this was okay we will lake the live year run
011 and 101 the excess go down Drive. And thaI was rejected. So we IInd
oursolvos where we are now. So we take the t2 acres from eur north boundary, 67
acres northwesl 01 us, II all comes to and through the subdivision and put Into eur
stormwater basin and we colleclll 011 tho 12 acres or 20 acros thalldyllwlld has and
rolease II. Tho addition ollhe 67 acres 10 this drainage area basically the velume thai
we has to deal with, So all 01 sudden now Ihe north ditch 01 Tall Speedway Isn'l
adoquate to handle the releaso that wo arB laced wllh having to doal wllh In Idyllwlld.
That's where wo IInd oursolves 01 this point. That was my baslo Involvemenlln II,
Dennis Kellel was more Involved In the dotall design 01 II. Bul concoptually, that's what's
transpired,
Larson Can the subdlvlslon be redoslgnod pulling lI1e detention pend In some olhor place so that
dralnago can be ochleved In 0 dlllorent manner. Setting aside the economics of whother II con
be redesigned, I mean, could you wllh a pile 01 monoy,
Stephan The economics Ihrown oul, your probably could.
Lorson How would you drain It oul thon, out to the east.oul to Dubuque?
Stephan Possibly. I don 'I know Ihall havo explored II In detail.
Larson ThaI Is one 01 Iho questions that somoone raised Is why Isn't this stull being drained 10 the oast
like It hos olways beon thoughllo bo drained.
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Stephan Pari 01 the problom Is that porhaps os one other Individual pointed oul to you Is thai yeu've got
problems over thore now, We are going to conlrlbute to those problems II wo take water ovor
thero, Ono 01 tho other thIngs Is Is that" Is so tar away and Ills se tlatte get thore.
Lorson My polnlls breught up by Dr, Coulter that II we've got some probloms ovor there that noed 10
be solvod, maybo we can solve a couple birds with ono stono II I haven'l mixed soveral
motaphors Ihore,
Stophan That Is what I'm saying 100, lei's nollake the drainage ever thore, Let's got It 10 the river
whore It's ulllmalely going 10 ge,
Larson But I have got 10 build 0 plpo 10 solve Ihe Dubuque Road problem and I got to build a plpo te
solve Iho Idyllwlld problem.
Stephan I guoss economically whether 10 make Ihe physical connection betweon the twe, whothor that's
somolhlng that you lolks have 10 decide. We Iry to prosent what we consldor 10 bo tho most
economical,
Larson Ilhlnk that Is all the larthor your lob goes, I don't dlsagreo with anything that you have dona
In this regard,
Courtnoy But It Is lair to say thai the problem that has been created lor yeu has been caused by the
city's requlromenlthat you tako care 01 Ihe runoff Irom up above, You could have handled this
with tho drainage dilch without that.
Stephan Possibly." wouldn'l hove been to the extenl that I have to deal with It now. I don't know
whether wo would have gotton to the polnt.keop In mind thai we we're laking steps at a tlmo
here. Whether the question would have come up, If we would hove boen allowed to discharge
67 acres along the wostorly boundary 01 Idyllwlld and not have to put In In our stormwator
ba~ln, whothor publlo works would have stili allowod us to discharge.
Courtney I'm saying Ihal without tho 67 acros, Just yeur plot rlghl hore could havo boon handled with
that drainage ditch,
Stophan Probably. Our releaso rale would have boon 50.l.s.
Larsen But the wator Is going to drain en their pial regardloss
Courtney NollI a stormwator relontlon basin Is put somo place up abevo and that pipe Is run threugh Ihe
Elk's proporty or through semeone else's property, They'ro bolng lorced through thore by the
city's regulations.
Gentry Thank, Chris, Dennis, could you holp us out now,
Dennis Keitel For those 01 yeu that havon't had tho ploasure of moellng mo YOI, my nome Is Dennis
Keltal, I guess I'm part 01 the couse 01 all 01 Ihls, I'd also like to let you know a IIIl1e bit
about my background, I also graduatod lrom Iowa State University In 1974 with 0 BS In
civil onglneorlng, I oblalned my PE IIconse In the state 01 Iowa In 1978, I'm also
roglstorod In the slatos 01 Minnesota and I hove a past roglstratlen In Ihe slate 01
Connoctlcutl'vo got ovor 16 years exporlence In civil onglnoorlng In various aspects 01
It and six and a half yoars exporlonce of overseas exporlonce working on residential
subdivisions. So I net only hove exporlonce In the Unltod Statos, I alse have II ovorsoas,
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able to make an Initial submittal to the city englnoerlng slall on apprexlmatoly tho 22nd
el March, Aller we submlttod those plans, I had a meeting wllh Denny Gannon of the city
engineering stall on March 20th 10 discuss Iho subdivision plans. There was a lot 01
things thai we had 10 change Including the stormwater drainage. We got Into Ihe bit
aboul whether we could use the ditch along tho west sldo along tho unnamod street.
That came up about Ihls lime, I don't have Ihe oxact datos ot when this all came up. But
It all evolved, as Chris explained 10 you I Into what we ended up wllh, Wo revlsod the
drawings and we made another submlllallo tho city engineering stall at the beginning 01
April and I had anothor meeting with Denny Gannon that tastod apprexlmatoly one hall
day on April 1 Oth. And lollowed that up with a slle vlsll wllh Donny te look 01 spoclncally
stormwater drainage on April 10th, As a rosult 01 that mooting wo made addiUonal
revisions to the construction plans to spoclllcally tako care 01 tho 67 acres to tho
northwest. Allor we made those revlslons we slarted sorlously.up to thai point we has
nol spent 0/01 01 time analyzing tho allocl 01 tho stormwater outlet Including Ihe 67 acres
and what II'S allect would be with dlllerentlevols 01 the Iowa River. I spont a lot 01 tlmo
and a 101 01 ellert putting together what the stage 01 discharge curvo would bo on the
Iowa Riviif with difforenl discharges. I've lookod at tho !gtlOr thai Mr, Wiitala, I'm In
goneralagreomenl with the numbers he's got In there. They closely oorrespond with our
numbers. I don't know II he has had the opportunity 10 spent the amount 01 tlmo on this
that I have. All 01 my calculations and all of my analysis Indicate that this stormwator
basin will handle the 100 year storm wllhout advorse Impact and wlthoul overtopping the
top 01 tho stormwater basin. Ho's welcome 10 look at eur calculations and go ovor thom
with us, Okay. As you alroady know, tho subdivision was approved subject to this
stormwater outlot bolng approvod on June 26, On aboulthat time or bolore thai whon
nogotlallons started coming up to where are wo going 10 have an oullotlo the Iowa River.
We knew wo would have an outlelto the Iowa River. We startad analyzing II. I was
Instructed by the clly englneorlng slallthat unloss you exhausl all posslbllltios, wo cannol
entertain the possibility of procoodlng wllh any kind 01 condamnation proceodings to
obtain a stormwater ouUol, which Is required by the Iowa City stormwator managomonl
ordinance, About thaltlmo wo were also talking about Ihe luture dovelopmont and the
luture Improvemonl 01 Tall Spoodway, So wo Incorporatod that Into our calculations at
that time, Somebody earlier made tho commont well you don't have a design 01 Tall
Speodway. Ilve done a preliminary doslgn 01 Tall Spoedway. l'yo got grados, I can
show thom to you, I've got thom right horo with me, All that work has boen done. I've
spont a lot 01 englnoerlng tlmo en this prolocl. Tho requlremonls In the stormwalor
ordinance and also required by the Corp 01 Englneors state Ihal your road olevatlen
cannol vary more than one 1001 bolow the 100 year 1I00d elovation. In the area 01
Idyllwlld subdivision, thai Is approximately an olevatlon 01 650 10 650.5, So thai means
that tho minimum olevation ollhe read 01 Tall Spoedway can be 649.5, So thaI's the
crltorla thai we used, looking 01 the Improvomont of Tall Speedway. This moans thai
mosl 01 the poople on tho south side 01 Tall Speodway are approximately two leol,
maybe mere, lower then the prosonllovel ot Tall Speodway, So, yes thore Is gelng to
be R problem. As one gentloman sold earllor, thoy were thoy IIrst, Should they have
boon thero, I don'l know. That's my thing to think about.
Gontry Dennis, as part 01 your asslgnod tasks, I assumo you woro hlrod by Doan Oakes and Mike
Hodgo, the devolopors In this case.
Koltol Corroct.
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Gontry Were you glvon 0 task 01 sondlng lollers to certain properties Ihat you had proposed as
ollornate routes to, lor example, Helen Relcart, Richard Millor, William and Jean Gilpin, and
Cory Cleland,
Kollel Yes, thai Is corrocl. To expound on Ihal 0 IltUe lurthor. The way Ihls doveloped was, as an
engIneer, when you try to "nd 0 way to gel 0 pipe 10 go 10 Iho rlvor, you are gelng 10 look 01
II Irom an englneorlng standpolnlllrsl. So I went oullhore and put on my little engineer's has
and sold, okay, III was going 10 put a pipe Ie the rlvor, where would I pulthe pipe 10 the river.
And I walkod up and down Taft Spoedwoy many tlmos and I looked at II and I did not know
who owned whal property along Tall Speedway. I was looking at It purely from an engineering
slandpclnl. Thai's how we developed. I think thai wo hove an ovorhead slide hero that we
could pul on.ln lacl. you probably have already soon tile skelch Ihat I drow up showing the
dllference property owners along Tall Speedway. Wo devoloped lour allemallves that we
thought were leaslble, The other ones, the other placos In between properties wore ruled out
as nol having atloast 0 twenty 1001 wide polontlal cloar space In which we could get a pIpe 10
the river,
Gontry Do you wanl to come up hore and use this overhead,
Kollel I think thoy are markod on the overhead If you turn II on. II might benefil overybody,
Larson Donnls, I see you now think you can golthe thing dono In a 15' wide space. Thai wouldn't
make a dllference would It. Vou were lookIng lor a 20' wldo spaco earlier. Wo now havo done
lurther revisions and we now Ihlnk we can gel It dono In a IIll0en fool spaco and our lalest
proposod easemenl plals that we have done show 0 'ilteen 1001 pormanont oasemonl.
Larson You sold yeu were looking lor 0 20' clear space, were lhore any '1IIoon lootors Ihat you missed
because you theught you were looking lor 20',
Koltol No, In every case thore wore
TAPE CHANGE TO REEL 90.78 SIDE 1
In somo casos, wo'vo gol garages Ihal ore built 10 within, I don't know whoro tho oxact proporty
IInos lire, It oppearod 10 me Ihallhey were with In two 1001 01 Iho property IIno, bull don't want
to gel Into anylhlng like that. Okay.
Gontry Dennis, you prosented your ollornalos In a memo dalod August 2, 1090, 10 Rick Fosse, Is that
right?
Keltol That's correcl,ln the lorm 01 0 lellor,
Gontry For Ihe council memborslnlormollon, this Is olloched Ie Ihe rosolullon, II's pari 01 II. Go ahoad,
I'd luslllke you 10 walk the council mombers Ihrough your allernalo roules, and oxplaln to them
what you discovered, and why you liked thom or dlsllkod Ihem,
Keltol Okey, as you can see, Ihal shows the gonernl shape ollhe slorm wator basin as the IInol
doslgn deplcls It along with the luluro Sage slreot and Idyllwlld streol on Idyllwlld subdivision,
It also shows tho unnamed stroollo Iho west and Tall Speedway and various parcels along
the Iowa River botweon Ihe Iowa River and Tall Speedway, Now altornollvo number one Is
the ollernollve between the While/Seydel proporty which Is deslgnatod os parcel six and seven
Ihore, This Is the most dlrecl routo to the rlvor 'rom Iho slorm waler basin,
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Larson Lot me ask another question. Is. It's as evldont as the nose on your lace that that's the most
direct route. Can you move the dotentlon basin to make ether routes more leaslble within the
development?
Kellel Nol with the current street allgnmont.
Larson Oh, I undorstand that
Keltol II would.
Lorsen My questlen Is, can you stili oxerclse the property rights you havo on thai land and put that
storm wator basin somewhore whore It can be drained In an olflclent and logical manner to the
river without having 10 condemn land 10 gollt thore?
Koltel No,
Larson And lhatls because.
Courtney Even II we change the street allgnmenls?
Keltol Even II you change the stroel alignments,
Gontry Why?
Larson Why Is that, Dennis? Because the land, yeu can't devolop lar enough easl to gel It 10 Ihe river
or whal?
Keitel You can'l go lor onough oast, and you can'l go lar oneugh wesl.
Ambrlsco I havo a question on Alternate '2. I've heard all the argumenls why going oast doesn'l werk.
Why deesn'llt. why couldn'l you go wost? What'a beyond 101 numbor one?
Keltol Beyond lot numbor one, In that area thai's. where you see the dashed line thai's deplclod as
Alternatlvo .2.A, thai's approaching the land thai's owned by the Elk's, I believe.
Horowitz What's wreng with that?
Ambrlsco Is Ihore any developmonl there now?
Keltol No, thore Is not.
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Ambrlsco Whalls Ihe reason lor that allernatlve not being leaslble, Dennis?
Koltel The distance Is leo great, and the size 01 the pipe that would bo required would not allow II to
bo leaslble from an engineering vlowpolnt.
Ambrlsco Does thai moan you wouldn't got enough loll? Is that what you mean by leaslblo?
Keitel Yes. You would not only nol have onough fall, bull Ullnk It wa~ provlously pointed oullhatlho
larthor you havo to lake this wator to the river, tho larger the plpo thai you have to use In erder
to got It due to Ihe head loss In tho plpo,
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Horowitz Bulthe water currenlly Irom the north om part 01 the nlnoty'nlno acres, curronlly has gone along
Ihe ditch on unnamed sl1oel. Is Iha! right?
Keitel Thai's not right.
Gonlry Oh, that's not rfght.
Kollel Thai wator does not. thai waler.1l appears that nobody knows, It appears thai that water goes
aleng that ditch, I've beon out there altor a twe Inch rain and thero was ne water In the dilch,
Horowitz Mr. Schmadeke, whore does our pipe enler Irom Fostor Read? Whero does It ontor en
Idyltwlld's property?
Schmadeke It runs diagonally across Foster Read 10 the northwest oornor 01 the Idyllwlld properly.
Horo\'ritz So tho northWOst Corner would be near unnamed streel?
Schmadeke Yes, It's at unnamed street.
Horowitz Then why weuldn't waler run down unnamed slreet ditch?
Schmadeke It's our position that alter we looked 01 the slto ourselvos, that It drains onlo the Idyllwlld
proporty.
Horowitz Okay, now, could It possibly. could a pipe possibly be placed along the side 01 unnamed sl1eol
and tho slorm water basin draIn Into that pipe? Which would thon drain Into Option '2.A? In
other werds, you'vo got a culvert that starts up In the nerthwost comer, could you run 0 pipe
down, so that you're takfng care 01 Daryl's problem?
Kellol No, you could nol because the dlslance Is 100 great, and Ihe size 01 the pipe Ihal would be
requlrod, Ihat Is anothor exercise that I did ge Ihrough.
Horowitz Okay,
Kollol The size 01 the pipe thai would be required and Ihe dlslonce that you would have to go does
nol make It leaslble from and englneorlng viewpoint.
Horowitz So It Is more leaslblo Ie have tho wator from Foslor Road peur out onte Idyllwlld and then bo
captured.
Kellel It will nol pour oul onto Idyllwlld, It will be plpod through Idyllwlld,
Horowitz Whon you say through, what do you moan?
Kellel In a slorm sowor.
Horowitz In a storm system, a sower system which will Ihen drain Inte a slorm walor basin?
Keltol It will drain Into Ihe slorm walor basin, which will Ihen be released at a conlrolled rale through
tho oullet pipe,
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Novick You are talking now abeutthe storm water systom underneath this curved streot, which Ihon
goes Into the basin? The slteelthBI goes oil 01 Idyllwlld Street.
Keitel Yes.
Novick Is that going to have a pipe under It, a storm water sowor plpe which.
Keltol Ves,ltwlll.
Novick .goes Inte the basin?
Koltel Ves II will. That will have the storm sewer thai Is colloctlng the area 10 the north and easl 01
the Idyllwlld subdivision, The araa to Iho north and wosl, the slxly.seven acre area, Is going
to have a pipe parallollng Foster Road Is going 10 pick that up on the norlhwesl comer, and run
It down to the storm wator easementlhat runs bohlnd the lots that goes up Into that linger In
the sterm water basin and II discharges It at thai point In the storm water basin,
Nevlck How many.
Koltol And thai Is also that Is also a Ihlrty.slx 10 forty.twe Inch pipe,
NoviCk Right. How many pipes will come Into the basin?
Keitel I can't. uh, lour or five.
Novick And only one going oul?
Keltol Only one going out. Thoy're dlllorenl sizes, 01 course they're the sterm sewor pipes Ihat drain
tho dllloronl streot areas as woll as the area to the northeast and northwest olldyllwlld. I
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Nevlck Okay, And you'ro sure that tho pipes coming In will allow a single pipe 10. will. tho water "~I
comIng In Irom lour plpos will be able to 1I0w out through one?
Keltol That Is corroct. That's Ihe way we doslgnod II,
Larson I believe yeu en that ono. My question Is: If you got hired to design the storm water
managemenl with the preporty easl 01 Idyllwlld belwoen Idyllwlld and Dubuque Streets, Whore
are you going 10 drain Ihal and how?
Koltel That's a very hypothotlcal question, I don'l know III can.
Larson What takes a little bit oul of the hypothetical Is our englnoor telling us that at some point we're
going 10 havo to drain a couple more times ovor to the rlvor
Keltol probably you would 01 whalls deslgnatod thoro os Alternatlvo #3.A. Thai would probably be
the, one 01 the IIrsl, but that altornallvo, which I haven'l got to yet, has a lot 01, a lot 01 draw
backs and a lot 01 negative aspocts about It.
Larson I guoss hero's what I'm leoklng ler.
Keltol Now.
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LOISon I den'l have any argumonl that Alternative 'A Is the best one lor the problem we have In lronl
01 us, which Is Idyllwlld, Bull also see things In these papers In Ironl of me thai say thai
there's going 10 be Iwo or three routos 10 the river before thai parcels fully doveloped, II I'm
gelng to build a pipe al '3A, and I'm going to be lold Iwo years Irom now whon that parcel
knows that theirs gols developed, that one way we could run II. ovor there 10 the east to ,3A,
we wouldn't have nooded to pul Ulat Seydol'sln. but since we did, we don'l neod quite so big
a one at '3A.
Keltal There's 100 greal a distance.
Larson There'd be Holllo pay.
Keitel There's 100 great 01 a dlSlance belweon the eastorn edge olldyllwlld subdivision and Dubuque.
I know what you're thinking. I know what you're leading up to and thoro's 100 greala distance
belween that eastern odge and Dubuquo Street to feasibly or practically pul a storm sewor
pipe. the size would be. Ihe size weuld be so large, It Would be out 01 the ground, And the
other thIng you hove to contend with there Is a Ihlrty.slx Inch dlamoler sanitary sewor that's
running along Taft Speea.vay.
Larsen So putting.
Kubby . II. that It's not feasible, you mean without a pump, or oven with a pump?
Keitel You. you coo't. you normally yeu mlghl be able to look 01 a pump pumping out, bUI you can'l
wlthoulstorm wator dotentlon, pumps aren't loaslble.
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Keitel There's/usIIOo great. There's. The peak that you have to try 10 handle Is too great and you I
weuldn't want that, because the malntonanco cosl would be so high, i \
LOISen Dennis, Ie pulltln lorms that even dumb old me can undersland. The amount 01 walor you've I i I
gollo move Is such Ihal you're going to neod, once that area Is all doveloped, Iwo dillorent ,
routes to tho rlver,jusl because the slzo 01 the pipe weuld be too big II you tried 10 pullt all Into I
one pipe. Is thai right?
Kellel And 0150, to drain along Toll Speedway, , 'I
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Larson Because your loll and ovorylhlng Is such that you can't go sldoways as far os. I I
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Keltol Correct, New one thing that, Ihat, that I don't think anybody has mentioned, yot, Is thai right
new, " thore's a hundred year storm on the Iowa River, and 011 this land becomes Inundated,
the people that live along Taft Speea.vay right now have ne means el exit 10 get out. And
that's the reason thai this restriction 01 being within one loot below Ihe hundred year, lor on
olovatlon on Toft Speedway. That's Ihe reason Ihe Corps 01 Englnoers places Ihat restriction
on Improving stroets, Thol's Ihe reason why you would want 10 go at a minimum to olevatlon
649,5,
Horewltz I thoughlthey could go up Ie Foster Read,
Koltel How are thoy going to golle Fosler Road when Ihere's no streol there?
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Herowltz Se you're removing unnamed Sl1eel?
Koltef Unnamed sl1eot has already boon vacatod, " I'm not, " I'm not mistaken,
Horewltz Okay, that's right. And Sage sl1eol doesn'l go all the way up?
Keitel Sage Street goes all tho way 10 Foster Read?
Schmadoke She means II Ihere's no devolopmenL
Keltol And Idyltwlld Street goes all the way to Fosler Road.
Horewltz Well," thore's no developmont, certainly we'd have to pul unnamed street back In.
Keitel And beth or those streets are hlghor Ihan lI1e hundred year flood elevation.
Genlty Dennis, whal you.
Keitel Sui right now, Tall Spoedway as It exists Is not high onough, ThaI's my point.
Horowitz You mention the sanitary sewer. Whalls that. Where does that run on the projected overhead,
Keltol Sanitary sewer Is en Ihe south side of Tall Spoodway until It gols 10 the area that's'lhe comor
01 porcel number twolve lI1ere, the double lot, whIch Is the Ocfe Trimble property. At thaI point
II cressos dlagenally over 10 the nerth side or Tall Spoodway and It runs weslerly then ovor 10
the vicinIty 01 Ihe comor 01 Tall Spoodway and Ihe unnamod slreel,
Herowltz And se Altematos '3 and '3A would have Ie go over lI1e sanitary sewer?
Kellol Allemale '3A weuld have to go ovor Ihe sanitary sewor.
Horowitz But not '3A?
Kellel Altomate '3. Wall, It weuld havo 10 go over It twice, All Alternales, evory single one ollhem
has 10 go ever the sanitary sewer,
Larson Because II's on the north side or Tall,
Keitel On the north side or Talt Spoedway, Now the way 10 de that and Ihe way Ihal. the way thai
we have designed It Is 10 do It rlghl alll1e polnl where's. has the leasl conflict which Is right
atlhe oullel to the storm water basin, "you Iry 10 de II any olher place, you're going 10 run
Into conlllcls.
Larson WolI, Ihal's your hlghoSI'
Keitel As we dlscovored when we drow a profile lor Altornatlvo '3A. AlternaUve '3A Is nolleaslblo,
because you run rIght In Ihe mIddle 01 the thirty. six Inch dlamoter sewer wllh any kind 01 a pipe
Ihal yeu'd Ity 10 golle tho rlvor In Alternallvo #3A,
Horowitz Isn't Iho olevallon al '3. your Allernutos #3 and #3A lowor by a couple leol than your Altornalo
II?
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Keitel Yes, tho outlel elevation does. Is lower because you can't slepe plpo downward and go on
additional distance and not end up being lower,
Larson Last question lor me, Dennis. You've slatod thai there'd be no overllow on the hundrod year
flood ovor the Seydel's proporty whore this plpe's going 10 be undorground,
Kellol According 10' according 10 our colculaUons, which were done by hand, and which we also did
with a now. We've golthe same cempuler program new that Sol said that he used, and we
checked II with thol, and we come up with 0 very close correlation with our hond calculatlen.
Larson Do you know where Dr. Kennody and Mr. WIItala diller with you on why lI1ey hove this hundred
and IIIty cublo leel 01 overflow otll1e hundred yeor fiood? I mean, they've gol 0 massive
overflow althe hundred year flood, and you're saying thore'lI be none.
Kellel I don'l know whal thoy usod lor allll1oro paramotofB, and until Wi! could got togother ond sit
down and talk abeut what.
Larson I undorsland.
Kellel .What paramolers ore being uSod, I don'l know Ilthoy know what the storage volume Is In the
storm water basin.
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Larson I think, Ion hydrologists, Ion Nobel prize winning engineers, would come up wllh ten dllferenl
answors II you ask me.
Kellel You're probably not 100 lor 011.
Horowitz Dennis, on yeu Allornate '3A, didn't you say that yeu would roqulro a berm Ihore?
Kellel Yes, that's anolher drawback Irom Allernatlve '3A, Because the ground Is so much lewor, as
Mr. Trimble polntod out, that he gets water backing up due to soepage alone. In erdor to keep
Ihe pipe undor the ground, we would hove 10 conslruct some kind 01 0 berm over lI1e pipe.
Now that would lurlher exacerbate Mr. Trlmblo's probloms and lor that roason, we wouldn1
even entertain presonllng a proposal like that to the city englnoerlng stall,
Horowitz Then, I don't understond where the other two plpos are gelng 10 go.
Courtnoy Somobody olse Is going Ie have some lond condomnod, thai's where.
Horowitz But you'ro going 10 have thom all going out closely to each othor, Mr, Schmadoko, has this
boen thought 01 al all?
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Schmadeke WolI, because 01 the restrlctlen we have wllh the elevation, yeu have two opllons, Yeu
ellher build tho rood continually higher, which has an adverse ellecl on the proporty. Or yeu
put In sevoral outlets 10 Ihe rlvor, Those ore your two choices,
Horowitz And the othor sovoral outlots then, weuld be CIOBO to each other?
Schmadoko WolI, soveral hundred loet, yeah, 11 would be, , think wo have, you know, wllh Allernalo , 1,
we'd have Ihat one, I think the next one would be probably somewhere olong the easlllne
01 the Idyllwlld subdivision.
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Horowitz In other words, .3, Option m
Schmadeko Possibly In there,
Horowitz And then .3A?
Schmadeko No, It'd bo lurlher to the east than .3A,
Novick What aboutlurther to the wosl, would you need one there also?
Schmadeko Whon we gel lurthor to the west, we got up abeve the hundred year flood level. Unnamod
streel, lor example Is above the hundred year f10ed level,
Horewltz Dennis, your numbors on this overhead are your parcel numbers, They're net 101 numbers In
a subdlvlslon.
Sclunadokg No.
Herowltz .Rlghl?
Kellal No. No, that's correct, Another thing that I havon't mentioned yetis thai also anytime that we
parallel Taft Spoedway with one 01 those potontlal storm sewer outlets, you cut oil any
possibility 01 somobody running a sanllary sewor sorvlco across and Into tho existing thlrty.six
Inch diameter sewer. I've been told that most poople oulthore do not have sanllary sowor
servlcos connocted, bull've boen told Ihat nol all 01 thom do,
Horewltz Do wo know how many and whore they are so that we won't havo 10 antlclpalo this problem?
Glvon our ordlnancos that we're considering on soptlo fields, Mr. Schmadeke, how are we
going to deal with this?
Schmadoke Wo know where thoso are, where Ihey're tied Inlo the sanitary sewer. We don't know whore
those septic tanks aro located.
Horowitz Will we have to order Ihom te heok onto our syslem?
Schmadeke We can do thai, yos.
Horowitz Would Ihat be done bolore this was put In, or bolore this road was put In or what?
Schmadeke It would bo done belore the paving was put In,
Horewltz Do tho nolghbors all know this?
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They do now.
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Schmadeke It's In the clly code, I don't know II thoy're aware 0111.
Horowitz Okay.
Gentry Dennis, you obviously have an opinion thai route Alternate .1 Is preforable, Can you toll the
council aside Irom the englnoorlng aspocts that you've lust gone Ihrough why you would
recommond Altornale numbor ono,
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Keitel Wall, I think someone lrorn the englnoerlng stall mlght'vo touched on this. The laclll1al this
pipe becomes the property 01 the city whon the project Is all comploted and turnod over. You
have 10 look at luture malntenanco cost, Alternative'l, since It Is the shortest and Involves
the leaslamounl 01 Inlra.structure, Is goIng 0 Involvo tho lowest 1110 cyclo cosls, That's going
10 be the lowesl maintenance cosl overall, ovor the IIle 01 the pipe,
Horowllz The life ollhe pipe at beth ands? Bocause II sooms Ie me that the malntonance costs that we
weuld have Ie Incur on the river because 01 the velocity 01 both the river and lI1e flow, would
be constantly replacing the lip. the cemont lip on that pipe. Either Ihal, or we'd Just permit Ihe
land to continually erode.
Keltol We design It such, Ihalthal doesn'l become 0 problem,
Horowllz How can you do that, whon all along the Iowa Rlvor, that's what's happening? Do you put
cement lips on Ihese pipes?
Keitel Ne, wa generally do not?
Horowllz What do you pul? What do you put?
Gently The pipe Is concrete, It's not molal.
Horowllz WolI, I. Okay.
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Gentry You mentioned something abeul Alternate Number One having the leasl amount 01 "
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onvlronmental degradation In terms of Irees, I I:
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Keltol Thai Is also cerrecl. I have my own sel 01 photographs here II anyone would care 10 look at I
Ihom, doplctlng oach and every altornatlve. And yeu only havo 10 look 01 the number 01 troos II
thai are on any olll1e othor altornatlves that I have deemed even leaslble, and 011 01 the other I
altornallves with the oxcoptlon 01 number one, havo largo, matura Iraos along the propesod I
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easemenl. Now whon I sold cloar space earlier, I meant clear space wllh respaclto buildings. ;
I dldn't mean clear space with respect 10 Irees and other. I
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Courtney I would like 10 see those Irees, I
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Genlry Yes.
Keitel Natural things,
Gentry Can you loave those with the council?
Keitel I can, Altornallve' 1 does have IIVO trees, Those Ireos are approxlmatoly 1IV0 feot high,
Gentry What's the Impact of. on, In terms 01 Allornale 'lon, smell on that outlel pipe.
Keltol We're notlalklng about sewage wo're lalklng about storm watar, which Is supposedly cloar
waler,
Gontry Will It be.
Koltol lt's not going to smoll any dlfloronlthan the river,
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Gontry Than the Icwa River?
Courtnoy Oh, no,
Keitel II'. probably gelng te smell bollor than the ~vor,
Ceurtney Thank you,
Gontry What oboul noise?
Koltel Tho noise. The nelse only becemes 0 lactor, lithe river level Is low. II Ihe river lovclls up, as
II has boon most 01 the summer, the pipe will bo pretty much submerged,
Gontry This will bo underground pipe?
Kgl!gl This will be a underground pipo, vas. Tho outlot.
Gentry The surface.
Keitel .althe rlvor Is 01 on elevotlon such that unless the ~ver Is allls low slage, any discharge Irem
Ihe pipe would correspend Ie the corresponding levolln the river, So thore's nol going te be
this rushIng splllago oul Irom the end 01 the pipe Into the river.
Gentry Whal will the.
Keitel And when the rive~s at a lovolllko Ills rlghl new so you'ro nol even going 10 see the discharge
Irom the slorm water basin Into tho river,
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Novick Whal will this pipe look like? Whal wllllhe ground look like whore the pipe Is localed?
Keltol It will bo riprapped, you know, largo slonos placed around Iho ond 01 the pipe, II will bo modo
to look as natural as we con make II wllh the adjacont rlvor bank.
NovIck All r~hl, Whal aboultho area length.wlso, running perpendicular to the rivor bank?
Keitel Well, thai area will bo reslored, The level would be Ihe same, would bo similar or the same
as ground lovel.
Novick II weuld look like somoone'slawn?
Keltol Exaclly.
Horowitz Whatever thoy erlglnally had (horo.
Keltol With the excopllon of the Ireos Ihal mlghl have 10 be laken out.
Larson The dotenllon basin Itsoll, whal's te slop people from lalllng In and nol being able 10 gol oul?
Keitel 3:1 side slopos
Larson 3:1? The thing we looked at was about 1 :1, was thai. Old you see that?
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Kellel That Is. that Is a. that's 0 engineering drawing, thai's not an accurate representalion, II you
look atlhe horizontal scale and vortlcalscale, you could see thalthore's 0 10:1 difference
between the horizontal and vertJenJ senJes,
Larson IjusI wonted the publlo to understand, I knew they didn't have slopes like this bull didn't knew
why the drawing mode them look like that. The horizontal and vertical Is skewed 10:1, Thore
wouldn't be 0 fenco or anything around these things, they're do signed to have 0 Ialrly shallew
bank er I mean not 0 sloep bank.
Kellol Ves, Thai's. Ihotls correct. In loci, I think this one we've even gol graded at4:t down to
obeut 0 loot or two 1001 below Ihe wators edge also to minimize the allect.
Novick Whalabeut the pipe ends, wlllthoy hove gratos?
Keitel Yes, the outlel end In the stormwator basin will have nol only 0 single grole, we ore going to
go to 0 concept 01 0 double grate 10 prevenllhls pipe lrom ever becoming plugged. So we will
have a log Jam type fence, A fence 10 prevontlog Jams, IIlhat ever gollnto the slormwator
basin along with a grated cover on the Inlet part 01 the pipe. So thai the danger 01 any child
getting suckod Into this pipe should be nil,
Novick What abeut your outlollhal De Into the stormwater basin? And whal about the outlel pipe that
goes Into the river?
Keitel Those also lollow all 01 the Iowa City englneorlng standards which require grated outlots, This
Is somothlng thatlhe City ollewa Clly englnoerlng stall reviews and construction plans cannot
be approved unUI we meel ovory single engineering standard that the city has come up with.
Larson I don't thInk there Is any quibbling with your werk, lrom my end elll anyway. The emollons and
other Issues around, the legallssuos are the enes Ihal drive all these questions, In my mind
olloast, lor mysell, I think you guys pulln 0 Iromendous amount 01 werk Ihat Is helplul to us,
The other Issues ore tho ones we are having trouble resolving In my mind.
Horow I havo eno othor quostlon though. I sUII do not undorstand what mechanism keops tho rlvor,
when It Is high, Irom going threugh thai pipe and back Into the stormwaler basin. Is there a
bafflo 01 80rno type?
Kellol No, tho olevatlon 01 the river will back up Inle the pipe. We're not denying that, But the level
In tho stormwater basin Is higher than the levolln the river,
Larson The rlvor Is hore and the top end 01 the pipe Is hore, The water will go hall way up to the pipe,
Gentry What aboutlhe culvert thai supposedly exists seuth 01 the unnamed street.
Keitel Thero Is a small dlamotor pipe, Thore Is a flared ond seclion that's exlsllng at Ihat cornor. The
city's sower stall tried 10 rod Ita year or se ago and they dldn'l evon make II across the street
and I've boon lold by talking to a couple 01 the alloctod property owners oul there thai pipe use
to oxlsl but thoy couldn't show me whore the outlet was on the rlvor. It supposedly olse goes
undernoath and existing house and thon we wore alse teld that Ihat pipe had been fillod In and
plugged,
Gentry So that was nol an allernalive lor you?
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Kellel That Is aboulthe time that It became known that we couldn'l count on any flow going Into that
pipe,
Genlly Dennis, did yeu sond the lettors that you provided copies 10 me to Helen Relcart, Richard
Mlllor, William and Joan Gilpin and Cory Cleland?
Keitel Yes, I did by certllled mall,
Gentry And you prevlded coplos to me.
Kellel Yes.
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Gentry Thank you, "the council has no other questions.
McD Thank you,
Keflel In closing, I would lust like to say thai although I'm an englnoer I appear 10 bo the bad person
on all this bocause Ihls Is whall came up wllh. I do have loellngs and I do.am sympathetlo
to poeple's leellngs, Whon we doslgn things we try to design them lor the bestlnterosl 01 all
the peoplo at hand and we alse IIy to do It 10 minimize the envlronmenlaJ Impact. I am a
staunch supporter ollhe environment. And whon I com up with Altematlve '1, thai's ono 01 the
main things that I was 10e~Jng at.
McD Thank you,
Gontry Thank you, I weuld like 10 ask Dean a few quostlons.
Larson Can we tum this ofl 80 I can rogaln my vision,
Gentry Sure.
Larson Thanks.
Dean Oakos Route 2, Iowa City.
Oenlry Doan, you and Mike Hodgo are the joint dovelopers In this case, Is thai right?
Oakes Yes.
Gontry When you ran Into the problem with the final pIal and the clly requlremonts 01 conveying the
99 acros threugh and out 01 Idyllwlld Subdivision did yeu conlacl any 01 the proposed property
ownorsln order 10 obtain easemonts?
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Oakes I 8enl a corllfled loller 10 the Seydols and the Whites along abcullhe middle 01 May asking
them to nogotlate with us or to consider selling us an easemonl for an outlet.
Gontry And that was Ihe may 22nd lettors thai you provided copies el 10 me, Is thai right? Old you
also contact Bruco Glasgow who owned 10 the easl 01 Allernate .3.A,
Oakes WolI, Italkod 10 Bruce throe or lour tlmos over the last couple 01 years whon they wore trying
to subdlvldo II and when were trying 10 subdivide II, And Bruce has nover Indicated that he
would sell any el his property 10 us lor Ihat easomont.
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Gentry And he provided you with a leHer to that affect loday?
OaJcos Yos, he did and he sald he has some proposals In view on thaI property and ho could not
entertain any kind 01 propesallrom me to soli any 01 his properly,
Gontry Old you obtain appraisals and review appraisal 01 the value 01 Ihe proposed easomenl across (
the Seydel and Whiles property?
OaJces Yes, we had Greg Downos appraise Ihat 20' parco I that we were going to need lor Ihat outlet.
I picked him because he had appraised the business vonturos dissolution 01 the provlous
owners 01 this property 01 the Idyllwlld Tract and he made the appraisal lor the six partnors al
the lime. So we knew he was lamlllar with that area and I think he had also appraised some
of the residence along Talt Speedway,
Gontry Old you thon have Mr, Paullard revlow that appralsallhal was done by Mr. WIlliams?
Oakes I think Marlon Noeley talked wllh him aboulthat, I was oul 01 town about the tlmo, ollhor he
or Mlko Hodge, I didn't actually.we did have a review appraisal made,
Gentry You authorized that rovlew appraisal,
Oakes Ves, I autherlzed It, I dldn'l talk directly wllh the man who did It.
Gentry And you subsoquenlly had an oller 10 buy real ostate served on Marleua While and Jamos J.
While and Carel Seydel and Lyle Seydel.
Oakes Ves, once we got Ihe appraisal I had Marlon Noeloy write again, reglstored or cerUfiod loller,
lelUng them know that an evaluallon had boon put on thai 20' easement to seo II they were
Inlerested In pursuing thai,
Gentry And you provided me with copies 01 nol only the lettors but also the service by tho sherlll on ,
the Seydels and Whllos lor your ollor of purchase which was subsequenlly donlod, I tako II. I
Oakes Yes, I
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Gentry You also dlrectod Dennis Keitel to contacl the olher property ownors that wo talkod about
earlier and provided me with ceples oflhose lotters,
Oakes Yes, Dennis, as he menlloned, was quite lamlllar and he talked 10 sevoral of Ihe people out
thore and know the other posslbllltlos whore they might /Ie so wo had him go ahoad and do
thai.
Gentry Te date you've been unsuccesslulln nogotlatlng an easomont from any other proporly ownors,
Is that rlghl?
Oakos Wo have had no Indica lion that anyone Is evon remotoly willing, At one point we had a lII/1e
glimmer 01 hope, But when we told the porson thai we weuld have 10 remove five mature Iroos
and thore was no othor way 01 pulling tho plpo In without taking treos out, That,
undorstandable was net.thoy didn't wish 10 go any larthor lalklng about Ihal,
Gontry I understand you tried to purchaso the property Ihat was formorly owned by Pagllal's Pizza,
now ownod by Dick Mlllor, somollmo ago. months ago.
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Oakes Righi after we boughlthe property. about oh I think, maybo nol quite 0 year ago. But we
undarstocd that Pagllal's property could bo bought and when we chocked Into It we found out
II had boen sold and I don'l knew hew long bolore thai It had boon sold. But we woren'laware
01 It until we checked Into It. And thon, Ihere was some Indication Ihal Mr. Miller mlghl sell and
we did make on oller on thai property. Probably In October of lasl year, And It was turned
down.
Gentry Thank yeu. I don'l hove any lurthor questions.
Horew II Mr, Miller hod sold you that proporty thon you would have pulthe pipe In 0 dlllorenllocaUon,
Is thai right?
Oakes Thai was our Intention 01 the Ume, We dldn'l knew II we would need the plpo or nol bul wo
thought It weuld be a good Ihlng to hove the property. We dldn'l have requlremonts on It 01
thai point. Excepl we saw the exporlence thai Glasgow had had In whore ho was proposing
to lake his slormwater to and that prompted us te make that oller,
Nevlck Which reute Is thai on the alternatlvos?
Oakes It was nel an alternative bocause thore was nol enough cloar spaco there 10 gotlhrough.
Gentry It Is to the east 01 .3.A,
Larson Farther 10 the oast?
Oakes It's larther 10 the easl. Dennis says thai Is Alternative .3, so thai was a consideration. I,
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Oakes Ilhlnk by laking thai we would have cui oil two people's access 10 sonllory sewor which we II ,
weuld havo probably had to provlde 0 pump for thom 10 pump sanitary sowor ovor tho
slormwater plpo Into the sanitary sewer main.
Larson Was this at a polnl you could have roconflgured yeu devolopmenllo uso Alternatlvo .3 or why i
or you dldnl ovon knew whal your alternatlvos wero al that point? I
Oakes When we made the oller, no we dldn'l know. When we got around 10 doing Altornatlve .3, I
Dennis has oxplalned Ihat. I kept thinking, and I stated before the council two er three times,
thallhe wator that comes Irom the 60 acres Irom the northwest goes down along Iho unnamed
stroot and II dlsslpales pretty much Inlo the sand. I've boon oulthore when walor was running
through those two 16 u. tiles under Foster and you can lusl see the stream got abeul hall way
down te Tall and It Is gone.
Larson lilt had any path, there would be 0 creek bod there.
Oakes Well, thoro Is 0 small channelthero, It has beon Improvod by tho city al dllloronltlmes and the
county at dlllerenl times. I bog to dlllor with tho city, and always havo, thai thai waler does not
drain on te our property, And It's almosllmposslble lor lito drain on 10 our property built does
soop under our proporty and It may roappear oulln our proporty.
Courtney That's that underground rlvor they were lalklng about,
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Oakes It's very actual. II's very much thare.
Courtnoy I would have to quostlen why we lust gOlthe loiter today Irom Bruco,
Oakes I wenl and ask him lor It
McD Another questions lor Doan,
Courtney It was all vorbal prior 10 thai?
Oakes Yeah, I suppese at some pelnl he might have said maybo I will, maybe we won't Whon It
come right down 10 II, he dldn'l want to entertain any kind 01 participation,
Horow Bul nellher do the Seydels Is the problem.
Gentry Rick, d., you wanl te help us out now?
McD Thanks, Dean,
Rick Fosse Should I slart with my background like everyone else, I, teo, I'm an Iowa Slalo graduate.
gradualed thore In 1992, got a BS In civil englnoerlng and wenllo work lor the Iowa Dopt.
01 Natural Resources In tho llood plain permlltlng branch, I revlowed fiood plain
developmonls ler slate permits. In 1904 I slarted work ler tho city as a design engineer and
In 10001 was appointed city engineer. I was licensed In 1907, Weuld you ploase respond
to Prof, or Mr. Wlllala's cemments earllor. I think the council would appreciate that.
Fosse Sure, 1 would contest any 01 Ihe numbors that he presenled loday. As he has alluded te, there
Is a numbor 01 different ways that you can calculate the 1I0ws Irom these areas, I've soen
estimates thai go Irem 550,I,s up 10 225 oJ,s The 1I0w rate that we would Iyplcally require a
developer to use 10 design his ouUel pipe weuld bo thatlrom the rationale lormula which Is
about 149 o,I,s In this coso thoy are using semothlng higher than thai, about a 1990,I,s, ler
an ouUet. Again, yeu can find wayathat are more conservative thai will come up with higher
1I0w roles. It Is just a maltor 01 which molhod you choose 10 usa,
Gontry Doos our methed currently raqulre using tho s~lngont standords Mr. Wlllala usod,
Fosse No, It doosn'l, Another Ihlng Is Ihat thoy discussed evonts that could conspire 10 cause
problems lor downslream property owners, You are looking at two ovents thai are happening
01 the same time, Which Is a probability that Is not addressed by our design slandards, Our
design slandards are up to one In 0 hundred probability, When you start cemblnlng alllty year
event wllh an elghtoen yeor evenl and you are over the hundred year threshold, thotls
something that our code does not address,
Horow I would Ihlnk It Is somelhlng those poople would bo concerned about, right?
Fesso Right.
Horow How do we as a council protocl them?
Fosso The design as It Is now wlll.goos boyond out ene hundrod year roqulrement. It will pass the
hundred year Ilow Irom tho drainage oreo Into the Iowa River ot the same time the Iowa River
Is allhe elevaUen el647 which I think Is In the nolghborhood 01 an elghtoon yoar avent. Again,
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you comblno an elghleon yeor evont happonlng 01 the same time as a hundred yeor evenl,
you ore well boyond what we typically require In whal everybody else In town has lor their
protection.
Genlry Rick, have you revlowed Dennis Koltel's doslgn and calculations,
Fosse Yes, I have,
Gontry And, whot do you have 10 telllhe council about those calculations ond your recommondatlon
at this stago.
Fosso II you review those cales for compliance with tho city's design standards, they certainly do
comply, Thoro Is no doublln my mind thallhe besl route 10 Ihe river lor that subdivision
conllguratlon that they have now Is the one that they proposo, Ills the shertesl, mesl dlrecL
most rellablo and cheoposlto malnlDln, The maintenance 01 the outlol structure has been an
Issue here tonight ond thai Is going to be on Issue no mailer where the pipe exists 10 the rlvor,
II's something you nooa 10 lako Into account In the design and also whon we accepllt we neod
10 lully recognlzo Ihat wo are going to have some malntononce work to do there occasionally,
The ton leel por second velocities that wo wore talking aboul earlier Ihls evening are meslllkely
1I0ods that would occur during 0 hundred yoar event, So Ills nolllke ovory day we are going
to soe 1I0ws 01 len 1001 per second coming eut of thai pipe eroding the land,
Herow But when II happons ovor a porlod 01 a weok, doesn'llhallmpact a bank?
Fosse II can. That's whon you noed 10 go back oul and look at II and see II seme 01 yeur riprap has
boen dlsplacod, 1111 has, thon you do malnlenanco on II.
Novick Whallevels have boen oxporienced this year. We have had 0101 01 rain this year, What kind
01 river levels aro we talking aboul?
Fosso I'm trying to rocall Just what the high was this yoor. 648.5 sticks In my mind. Bull don'l have
those numbors In Ironl 01 me,
Larson I don'l have very many quostlons bocause 10 me tho onglnoorlng part ef II doesn't havo
anything to do with II, I bollovo you whoo you say that Is the only ploce lor the darn pipe 10
ge, To me tho question Is whether omlnont domoln Is proper In this Inslanco or nol, My only
question Is, II this dovolopmonl doos not occur, Mr, Ookes gels tired of II or ho loses In court
or whalever happens, Is thore going 10 noed 10 bo 0 dralnoge plpo Irom that area to tho rlvor,
Fosse As Chuck sold oarller, lithe dovelopment doesn'l occur, II's unllkoly thai Tall Speedway will
be paved and In thai case we don'l need the pipe to Ihe river,
Novick I hove a couplo more quosUons, There
TAPE CHANGE TO REEL 00.78, SIDE 2
I want to know how thoy will apply to this particular situation. Is this a wet of dry basin,
Fosso II's a wet bollom basin,
Novick Is II plantod In any way?
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Fosse The banks we plantod with grass.
Novick And the bollom Is Jusl dirt, soli?
Fosso (yos)
Novick Okay, How do you then assure that there Isn't any soli erosion going Inlo the pipe which then
makes the diameter smallor,
Fosse That Is one 01 the advantages 01 the short direct route, It has enough slope to have
sell.cleanlng volocltles. When you route the plpo 900', dog legging It on a flalslopo probably
using a low head pipe, a squish circular plpo.that Is flal bottom, then thai Is a problem, You
start to have sediments accumulating In your fine with loss 01 capacity and loss 01 flood
protection.
Novick I was thinking thai a curvod pipe would level off eventually,
Fesso It would 1111 dldn'l hl\vg 5vll!c!onl a/opo that whon thoro was flow In It II scours Iho:tl ;odlmonts
up and lakes them to the river, Ono 01 the unique fealures 01 this basin thai has not been
discussed lonlght Is thai, We have seon a 101 01 rain this summer. Thore Is no plpo existing
the basin now and the basin Is not overtopped, And Mrs, McDonald was accuralo saying that
the ground down thero Is like a sponge, It Is very sandy soli and the devolopors wanlod to use
thai as a.ln the calculations 01 sizing the outlet plpo, Bulthore Is no good way 10 gel a handle
quantitatively on whal kind 01 flows go through the soli, So In a sense that Is a factor 01 safoty
lor us, Nothing flowed oul 01 the basin this summer,
Larson The outlet pipe Is nol the only way eut 01 the basis, It also lust seeps Inlo the whole area,
Fesse Exactly.
Horew Ills a laclor 01 salely lor Ihe drainage ollhe basin and plpo and thon thai makes me question
whether It's a lactor 01 safety lor Ihe slructures, the house thai are bolng buill there,
Fosse I guoss I'm nOllollowlng you, serry.
Herow The sell that Is seoplng, tho soli thai Is absorbing Ihls molsluro, Isn't that sort oltha soli that
yeu don't wanl to build a house en,
Larson That's a question. How do you build a house on a sponge.
Fosse I have nollookod alII lor strongth. How many pounds por square fool you can put on II. Sand
roally has pretty good load bearing capacity while at the same time having the ability 10 convey
water through. They are not mulually exclusive.
Horow Mike has assured mo thai he Is preparing this lor !WO feat, cortalnly one and a hall loot over
Ihe hundred year flood. And thallho samples and Ihe structures are adoquale, But we talk
aboul a sponge and you talk about tho protection that this area would have by Ihe walor thon
sponging down rathor thon overflowing the wator basin. II doludes me as 10 how these could
really be safe,
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Courtney There will be no basemonts hore. These are lIoatlng slab concept They are going to 11001.
There are othor Incldonces el stormwater and or sewor plpos going directly betweon two
resldoncos In lown, I lake 1/,
Fesse Yes. I broughl along some pictures. Our draltsman took the pictures this altemoon, Steve
Slngleman, Whal those show Is locallons In town. And there arB many 01 them, This Is Just
lour 01 them, Ollecatlons where we have storm sower plpos going between homos, Those
range Irom 12L up 10 42L,
Larson They don'l exist though, They don't exist There Is no eul.lake valve,
Fosse Actually one 01 those does outlet In the back yard, The one thai was originally pUlln along
Princeton Road,
Courtney Righi In tho backyard and Ills a 42 L pipe and do you rocall how lor that Is Irom each one 01
tho houses.
Fosse I don'l know the distance to the hemos.
Larson It Isn'l being 100 by a stormwater detention basin Is II.
Fosso It Is being led by First Ave.
Ceurtney Actually, there Is a basin connocted 10 It. The Rita Lynn basin Is connocted dlreclly to that.
Fosse Yes It Is,
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Courtney UpSlream.
Nevlck Would you revIew the solback numbers, I dldn'l quite undorsland that paragraph,
Fosse I'll review It as I undorstand It and, again, I'm not a housing olllclal, "you havo a 60' lot, which
lor this area Is a minimum 101 width roqulred 10 build on, Take 7,5' 01 that Is unencumbered
by an oasemont, The housing dopl. stili looks at that as a 60' 101. Whalll does Is a 7.5'
easomont would oncumber 2,5' 01 whal you could build a primary slructure on and 5' 01 whal
you could build a secondary Slrucluro on, such as a garage,
Larson Because you have to slay 5' away lrom the lei line,
Fosse Righi,
Novick So you would then have Ihls structure 5' plus 7.5',
Fosse No, The 5' olfsot and the 7,5' oasemonl share somo of tho same ground, Thai Is thoy ovorlap
by 5',
Gontry The pipe will be undor tho 7,5' on either property. For a total 01 15' enly,
Novlck Yos, Howovor," I'm going to bulld, do I have Ie build Irom the easomenlllne back.
Gentry Yes,
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Novick So then.
Genlry You've 1051 2,5' more leet.
Fosse There Is ne ollsellrom the easomonlllne, The ollsells from the property line,
Novick So you ClIII build as dose as 7,5' 10 the property line?
Larsen 5',
Gentry Ilalked 10 Nolan In the Housing Inspection Sorvlcos Dept. aboulllthls were roally going 10
constrain any conStlUctlon, He described thai oven lithe Seydels split their property Into three
60'Iots they could stili build a standard ranch house plus a garage or a twe story heuse without
any problem plus a garage. This would nol really and these are very Iyplcalln Iowa City,
Larson It Inlrlnges their ability to place the house where ever thoy want.
Gentry Righi.
Larsen But only to the extent 01 the 2,5' throughout the length el tholr property.
Gontry Bull was assuming thai they were going to subdlvldo, But Carol said tonight Ihat they woren'L
They were going to lusl put up one house, And the proporty Is 200' by 108' deop at one pelnl
and 151' deep al anether.
Larson I think the objecllon was as 10 the pipe, The outlet. Doesn't have anything to do with nol bolng
able to build over the tep 01 It, as I understand It.
Genlry Well, I have heard an objecllon 10 that earlier and thai Is why I tracked It down, Rick, can you
lell me whalthe boneflls to Ihe city are othor Ihan draining the walor 011 01 Idyllwlld,
Fesso The obvlous bonelllls thai we will have an oullel lor Talt Speedway when Ills paved, One 01
Ihe outlels thai we will need, A socondary and smaller bonofllls thai the, as was discussed
earlier tonight, Ihe water Irem this area contributes to problems al the east end 01 Taft
Speedway. The blggor the slorm the more those problems creep west. This will romedy this
problem. It will take It directly 10 the rlvor Instead 01 pu<<lng II down by Dubuque Streot whore
we already have problems,
Horow Thai's a quesllon.an Issuo thai I'm nol cloar on, Is tho problom al Dubuquo Strootlrom tho
drolnage down there or Is Itlrom the rlvor backing up Into that area,
Fosse It's Irom both, Tho other nlghl, the last big storm we had, I went out thore, And early In evenl
you will soe the water crossing the road Irom north 10 south, The problem Is from the drainage
area, Lalor on when the Iowa River comes up It backs across the other way, So what we are
going to be delng Is eliminating pari 01 Ihe problem under the norlh to south flow,
Horow Bul wo will be directing II Into tho river,
Fosse Thai'S right,
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Larson So, It was not completoly accurate when someone said that \he problems that were shown te
us 01 flooding on to Dubuque Sl1eol aro unrelated 10 Ihls water. I didn't understand why he
said thai, Some 01 the wator thai Is on Dubuque Streot comes from this land, right?
Fosse Righi.
Larson Some 01 thai wUl be dralnod to the river from this pipe,
Horow But II the water Irom tho 99 aetes Is absorbod Inte the spenge 01 an undeveloped aroa, weuld
thore be as much volume going Into the river which would thon soek the Dubuque 511eel aren.
Displacement I guess Is what I'm talking about.
Fesse " 100% 01 II were abserbed, thai mlghl bo true, We have soen Ills not all absorbod, We de
have runoff evon wlthoul dovelopmonl and Ills causing problems,
Gontry Rick, yeu and Chuck asslslod me In drafting the resoluUon, was that rlghl.
Fosse Yes.
Gontry Do you have any doubt In your mind that thore Is sulflclonl publlo purpose to require the
doveloper to obtain this easomonllor slorm sewor ouUot purpose,
Fosse As I undorstand publlo purposo, I bollovo It Is thore,
Gentry Can we have your photes for tho recerd.
Fesse Sure,
McD Any other questions lor Rick?
Courtnoy Have we evor had any complaints from any of those lellls aboul noise,
Fosse No, no we havon't.
Larson I didn't see any pIpes,
Fesse No, they are all burlod.
Larson I dldn't see the ono the Is suppose to end up In thore back yard,
Fosso I can got you a picture If yeu Uke,
Courtney You will havo to come eullhore. Ills rlghl back In Ihose l1eos, i'
Horow Rick, how many condemnallons havo you deall with In your experience.
Fosse For tho sower prolectssoems Uke we had aboul five, Ilhlnk,
Herow They were all doaUng with homes or areas thaI \Yere alroady doVOIOped, Is thai rlghl?
Fosse No, No. Some ef Ihem wenlthrough Ilolds, beons and corn, We Just couldn't get Icgelhor on
the prlco.
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Gentry Do you the anticipate the CIP Program Ie commonce construction on Tan Spoedway
Improvements In spring 011992.
Fosse Thai's our marching orders. That Is what Is In the plan, We will plan on II.
Gontry Have you reviewed Dennis Kellal's proposed established grade,
Fosse I have looked 0111 brlelly. I have not looked at II In depth,
Gentry Do you concur wllh him thai the Army Corps 01 Engineers requires Tall Spoedway to be a loot
above the 1I0ed plain.
Fosse I think what he Is lalklng about Is the low polnl can only bo a 1001 bolow and that Is the same
as our Iowa City slandards,
Gentry So that narrows the eslabllshod grade down.
Fesse Ves It does, What we are going to be doing Is going between a leol below the hundred year
to probably about a 1001 above the hundred year. Oscillating back and lorth Ie give eurselves
low points so we can drain the storm water,
Gontry And that will be based on the Army Corp 01 Engineer elovatlon requirements, Actually they
back Into thai through the c.l,s. release,
Fosse Well, I think that all the Army Corp 01 Engineers requirements are Incorporatod Inte the city
specs. Yes, Ills part 01 Chapter 11, Gentry Thanks.
McD Thank you, Rick,
Gontry I would like Chuck to summarize why he leels strongly about this being a publlo purpose.
Schmadeke Ilhlnk thai wllh any subdivision, you have a publlO and private partnership lor the Installation
01 publlo laclllly. Now the subdlvldor pays lor the Installation, the city Inspects Ihose
lacllltles, the city lakes over ownership, oporatlon and maintenance 01 those lacllltles, once
they are approvad, I think thai since this Is a partnership betwoon the publlo and private
sector, I think publlo purpose Is served by the Installation 01 the lacllltlos.
Gentry Do you think the propesed Allernate Route .lls a reasonable and necessary requirement lor
conveying the more than 100 yoar 1I00d oil of Idyllwlld Subdivision:
Schmadeke I believe Ills, yes.
Gentry Do you think Ills a reasonable and necessary means el draining the plus or minus additional
08 acres north and wost 01 the subdivision In this manner,
Schmadoke I believe Ills, I bellove Ihat water wlllllnd Its way 10 Tall Speedway ellher over tho surlace
or through the subdlvlslen, And by requiring the passage through the subdivision we
channel II through the pipe to the river,
Genlry When Tall Speedway Is Improved, does Ihls outlet also convey runoll Irom the pavement Its ell,
Is that right.
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Schmadeke From a portlen 01 the pavemont, yes,
Genlry Will II convey II In 115 existing unlmptovod slale, Tall Speedway,
Schmadeke Probably very little.
Gentry Vou ar looking down the road In torms 01 Ihe Improvements to Taft Speedway as well as
Idyllwlld Subdivision Itsell,
Schmadeko ThaI's right.
Gontry Is It your lob 10 plan ahead In thai way,
Schmadeke Ves It Is,
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Genlry Is II your understanding ollho comprehensive plan that Inflll dovolopmenl has been encouraged
by this city.
Schmadeke I bellevo Ihatls correct.
Genlly Does thai saUsfy that requirement In some measure,
Schmadeke Yes II does,
Gantry Do you have anylhlng else you want 10 tell the council aboulldyllwlld Subdivision,
Larson Who gets to cross. examine here, I Jusl have one question lor the wllnoss. You Indicated that
you believe the publlo benefllls that there Is a publlo and prlvato partnorshlp, My question Is,
Is Ihore a pUblic. private partnorshlp whon the resoluUon approving the dovelopmontlndlcated
thai the development can be built II the dralnago problem was resolved, I can't, haven',
doclded yet, Is wethor It Is our rosponslblllly te provide tho legal mechanism 10 resolve Ihat
drainage problom or whethor Ills lust the develope~s problem, Either he gets II resolved, or
ho doesn't build. Thai's the Issue I havo and I don't know whothor that's
Schmildoko I don't know that It's your responsibility to selve that problem, I think you can solve that
problom because of the publlo purpose.
Larson Thai might be, that might bo, Whethor we have te do this or whelhor we can do this are a
couple 01 big ones, I don't even know II we can. Buill we can, do we have 10, Bolleve me
the quickest way I kind find to gotlhls to a Judge Is 10 havo your Idea, I wish I could do thai
wllhout having 10 vote on II, Because Ills Rwfullmportanl to a lot 01 people and whatover
happens tho ludgo Is going to docldo It, And 0111 want to do Is make sura the majorlly rule
Isn't going on hore. That we mako the rlghl legal decisions based upon guaranteeing
evoryono's rights undor tho law, I'm trying to find Ihe logal vote. Tho popular onos ar easy.
Courtney I guess I havo seon a lot 01 puzzled and astonlshod looks out hore tonight as te how this whole
hoarlng has gone. And Ills Ihe first time In the five years thai I've seen us do this, Ilhlnk you
ought to explain, I have nover seon the clly allorney actually Intorrogate people while during
a hearing. I think you ought to explain why thai Is happening,
Gontry I'll bo more than happy to,
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Courtney ThMk you. Because I'm nol sure that I know,
Gentry This Is nol something that the city engineer or Ihe publlo works dlroctor and 1 have discussed
lightly over the pasl few monlhs al all. Wo'vo wroslled wllh this, wo'vo wrestled with eh MMS
englneors Md In lorms 01 the law, emlnont domain CM only bo based on publlo purpose, And
since the publo works director and the clly englneor foil very strongly Md as It was explained
Ie me thore Is lar more benellllo the city being obtained Irom simply removing slormwaler
runoll ell 01 the subdivision, There Is lar more benolll being oblalned 10 the city. This will be
Parl 01 the overalllnfrestruclure lor stormwator managomenl storm sewers and In torms 01
trying 10 make alllhe lacts available, Ihls Is a very emollonallssue. And II seemed 10 me that
my job lor the council was te presenl whall had gleamed as the lacts. Whether there had
been good lalth offort made by the davelopor. Whether we had explored every possible
avenue 01 route. Whether thore were really negellated ellorts 10 obtain this proporty without
our assistance. And IIslonlng te the onglnoers and Iholr exportlse wreslllng with these dlfflcull
problems and coming up with whal we bolleved 10 be publlo purpose, There Is no doubl aboul
It, Ihls Is trlggerod earlier than would have boon triggered In the event Tall Spoodway
development paving pr%~~ct were occurring right now. This Is ahead elthaltrack byt Ills
conslslant i1nQ Iils In with the CIP preject. And, Ithoughl the easlosl way was lust to make a
lactual evidentiary presenlatlon to yeu so Ihat you can make the decfslon. You are not going
10 avoid tho emotional Issues, But alleasll wanted 10 give you a grasp on what the lactual
Issues ware. And frMkly, Ills besllo de II In a publlo lorum, on the publlo record.
Gontry Questlen, Ms. Gentry, how did you eSlabllsh In your own mind Ihalthere was a negotiation,
A goed lalth negotiation basod on the asking the questions that you sond outlhose letters on
a particular day. Is sondlng out a certified lettor considered a bonaffde negotlaUon.
Gontry Thai Is ler you to doclde, As a laclua/ mattor 1 have, althe conclusion 01 this I WMt 10 make
everything that I have as Parl 01 the rocord available 10 you. But It will be up 10 you 10 make
a lindlng 01 lacl whethor good faith efforts have been carried out.
Larson I think thaI's ene 01 the oasler enos, II there Is somobody living along Ihero that doesn'lthlnk
they can make a little bit 01 monoy hore, thoy have beon asleep along time,
Kubby I have another legal kind 01 question, When thore Is negotlollon going on and an ogreemenl
cannet bo reached, In a logal sense, whose rlghls will bo upheld, The peeple that are thore
IIrst or the poopla Ihal wanllo come In.
Gentry Flrslln time, IIrstln rlghl doals with, are you asking aboul moving to Ihe nuisance kind 01 law,
Kubby I don', know whalthat Is, The nogotlallon cMnol be roached, And anothor way 01 looking at
It besldos condemnation, II negollallons can't be reached and you can'l resolve Ihls to mutual
saUslacUen 01 both partlos, then somobody Is going 10 lese,
Gontry No, The purpose 01 the condomnallon Is Ihat your can'l tako proporty WlUloul lust
componsatlon, The clly has to pay this. these easoment rights.
Horew II you eliminate condomnallon. Larson. There Is no requirement hore that the twe come to an
ogreomont hore, Dean's duty Is 10 ask Ihese people II they want 10 sell. ff they say no, he has
fulnlled his duly to nogollale lor a purchase price, Ills nol a question whoro you hava Ie go
a certain numbor 01 rounds or anYlhlng. Thore Is no arbllratlon Involved at the end 0111. He
just can'l buy II II they den'l wanlto soli I!.
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Courtnoy Is there any case law lor a case anywhere close. I'm sure this has got to be unique lor the
whole Unlled States, II always Is In Iowa Clly, Is there any case law thai you know 0111101
comos evon close to this.
Lorson You know, I think I leol why Ills such a hord Issue to come to lerms with, Change yeur mind
sellrom the Idea housing developments are good ler a city and, II you ore going 10 have a
housing dovelopmont, II has got Ie be properly drained lor lI1e heallh and solely 01 lI1e people
living there and thai the city Is going to be a partnorshlp here and have some Inlrastruclure and
II's going 10 drain this land. Change your mlndset Irom that 10 the Idea thai this dovolopment
Is bad lor the area and II there Is any legal way to say no to II, thal's what the council oughl
to do, And now see II emlnont domain makes sense to achieve that geal. To achieve lI1e goal
01 pulling In a subdivision that Is a bad II1lng, I'm not saying Ills a bad thing. But II thai Is your
mlndsel, now you can see why all of a sudden II gots compllcaled. Because you are Ialklng
about public benefit when thore Is a whole bunch 01 people Ihatthlnk that the publlo benefit Is
In turning down the damn thing,
KUbby We gol ourselves Into Ihls legal bind because when we approved Ihe plat, Daryl and I kept
asking lI1e quesilon, say yos Ie Ihls we cannot go back. And thai Is why I voted no unUI we
got this cleared up so that we could ge back II we chese 10, So we kind 01 got ourselvos In this
calch 22.
Courtnoy We were going to be thore anyway, II we'd had lurned down the subdivision that toek all rights
of dovelopmenl away and we were right In court anyway.
Kubby We could have delorred unUllhls was cloared up.
Lorson That was whal my original vole was,nol whell10r I lelt the subdlvlslen was an asset 10 the
publlo or this community or not, But whether our laws allowed us 10 say no 10 It and they
didn't.
Courtney Prior councils have gollen us Inte this bind by putting all these rules and rogulaUons on the
books. I'm not saying thoy are bad bullhat's hew we got here,
AI Lell I JUSI want to response In the weighing of Ihe rights 01 the two property owners, That Is, the
developor and the one south 01 Tall Speodway. IlI1lnk unequivocally you have the rlghl to
dony lI1e requost te condomn. No one Is going 10 quesllon Ihat rlghlto deny to condomn
so moone's property, II you decldo to dony the request 01 the developor 10 condomn this, I
don't think thai Is going 10 be subjocl to question, That Is your exercise. Whon yeu Slrolch
your power 01 emlnont domain and try and lake this property 01 these preperty ownors, my
cllenls, lor tho embollerment 01 those developers on the guise that II Is lor publlo purpose and
one 01 necasslty.when your publlo works dlrecler would say thai had II nol boen lor the
subdivision Ihere would be no lall Speodway Improvemenl, there would be no storm sower
Imprevement required. The loci that the road Is In Ihe 1901.93 program Is nothing II there Is
no subdivision, Yeu aren'l gelng to consldor paving this, ThaI's just somolhlng lor yeu to
consider II everything Is right.
Kubby So Unda, dees It also moan that evon II we doclde we have Iho right to condomn, we could
choose not to and sllll be okay logally.
Larson ThaI's what Mr, Lell JUSI sold, De you agroo wllh that.
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AI Lell Mr. Oakes should be well aware 01 thai rlghl because 01 one polnl he roquested the city to
condomn on easemenl way oil 01 American legion Read 10 a proporty he was wishing 10
develop lor high donslty, The council relused on the basis thai he had created thai problem
by way 01 whIch the properly was purchased. II hadn't been subdivided by the previous own or.
There was 0 series 01 reasons but In Ihe 1901 Supreme Court decision, the Iowa Supreme
Court upheld the right 01 tho city council to reluse 10 condomn, You clearly have that right Ie
reluse to condomn, The converse 01 that was not at quesllon, Had they, would II have been
proper,
Gentry II we tread any more Into legal quosllons, I want to go Into executive session.
McD Okay.
Genlry This was supposo 10 be an evldenllary hoarlng,
Karr We have a motion on the fioor.
McD All It Is Is 10 approve the resolution,
Gontry I want you 10 excopt Ihlngs Into the record which have beon presented In evidence lonlghl.
And perhaps we can substitute some 01 the photos lor xorox copies,
McD Moved by Larson, soconded by Horew thai wo recolve Into the publlo record Ihe material thai
was presonted to us tonight, Motion carried.
Karr We stili have a motion on the fioor. Do you want to withdraw the original motion, You have
a motion, moved by Courtney, seconded by Horow., lor Ihe purpose 01 discussion, to adoplthe
resolution,
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Ceurtnoy I don't think I'm ready 10 wllhdraw the motion unless people can give me valid reason ler
doferrlng.
Larson I neod 0 legal opinion. She Just said sho wants an executive session to give 1110 me. I'm not
ready to vote on It,
Horow How we can find out wholher we have gol enough poople who wanllo vote on It and whal do
we do II,
Larson I thought wo do this all the time, put a motion on the 1I00r lor tho question and then we move
to defor.
McD I don't know whatlhe problem Is here. Explain to mo,
Genlry Why you can't delor? i'
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Gentry I don't havo a problom with the procedure,
McD Marlon
Karr (con'l hear)
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Horew Veah, bul Darrel and I don't want to delor.
Courtnoy I dldn'tsay that. I wanlod 10 hear some arguments why we should, We have pul these people
threugh monlhs and months and here It Is alter midnight and we're wanting to defer again,
Larson I had whispered 10 John earlier that I hadn'l made up my mind yet and I neod 10 hear some
things frem legal counsel and I mlghtlalk 10 some other lawyers belore I'm all done with the
thing, I think It Is awfullmportanl and I don'lfeel comfortable with the doclslon yel and you can
all hate me lor that, You can all vote 6.110 not dolor It. That would be my prelerence 10 deler
It.
Courtnoy As lar as I'm concerned, you can go Into executive session right now, Vou can ask the
questions and you can right back out and vole, I wanl to gel It over with,
Larson I can understand that. I sympathize with,
Gentry It hasn'l been posted, We can'l do that. Morlan's right, you have a motion on the floor that
noeds 10 be voted on or withdrawn.
McD
Have we always wlthdrown In advance... I don't remember being here at 12:30 either,
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Kubby Se you can withdraw a vote 10 deler If It's denied.
McD Again, II the majority, It's a majority. First of all, who made tho motion,
Courtney I did.
McD Darrel and Susan, I think that II the majerlty weuld, Ihat they could probably be talked Inlo It.
Courtney I have hoard ene person say Ihalthey want 10 deler,
Novick I would be willing to deler.
Kubby I would be willing to, I don't need to.
Ambrlsco Vole,
McD Doler.
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Courtney I'll wlthdrow the motion,
Horow I'll second It,
McD
Larson Move 10 defer this Item lor Iwo weeks and I would mako that motion wllh tile understanding thai
only new ovldonce bo submltted."that wo nol rehash the Issue.
NI'I<f. s"ouJ
Courtnoy And our oxocullvo sosslon will bo at tho Informal tho nlghl boforo.
Larsen I prebably don't noed an executive session II you all aren'llnlerested In the same quesllons,
I'll meel with Undo prlvatoly and gel my answors,
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Courtney No, weill have an executive sosslon.
Latson "m tho only one thaI doesn't know tholr VOlo ye!.
Courtney Thai Is nolltue.
Novlck No, I'm with you Randy,
McD Moved and seconded thai we deler unUllho Sep!. lOth moetlng, Any olher discussion. All
those In favor signify by saying aye, Mollon car~os.
110m 18: page
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City of Iowa City
MEMORANDUM
DA T E: August 31. 1990
TO: City Ceuncil
FROM: City Manager
RE: Informal Agendas and Meeting Schedule
(
September 3. 1990
LABOR DAY . CITY OFFICES CLOSED
Ne Informal Ceuncil Meeting
Monday
September 4, 1990
6:30 . 7:30 P.M.
6:30 P.M.
5:50 P.M.
7:10 P.M.
7:15 P.M.
Tuesday
Informal Council Meeting. Council Chambers
. Review zoning matters
. Custedlal Worker Pesltion(s)
. Council agenda, Council time, Council committee reports
. Consider appointments to the Beard of Examiners ef
Plumbers, Parks and Recreation Commlsslen, and Board ef
Electrical Examiners and Appells
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7:30 P,M, . Regular Ceuncll Meeting. Ceuncll Chambers
September 17. 1990 Monday
6:30 . 8:30 P,M. Ceuncil Chambers
Informal Council Meeting. Agenda Pending
SoPttmber IS. 199Q Tuesday
7:30 P.M, . Regular Council Meeting. Council Chambers
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PEND I NG LI ST
Leasing of Airport Land fer Commercial Use
Stormwater Management Ordinance Review
East Side Storm Drainage Imprevements .
Envirenmental Issues re. Land Development
Sales/Solicitation on City Plaza
Appeintments to the Housing Cemmlssion . October 2, 1990
Appeintments to the Riverfront Commission and Board of Library Trustees.
October 16, 1990
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ICCM Tll'IEIT APE FORM FOR \F PrE M ~a. q, I Q90
AGENDA TIME Sublect COMMENTS
I Ilem I "':.;c CllLL To (')tu>[.t!. /ROLL C04LL ",' ~U
2 lIem 2 I" '0; AlA'/AiI'" ..EbQJ,'LAr-1AilON ~ .
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3 IIem3 I-~( l'.cN<i' /I> r c ALl'tJ DI\R.. .. ~
4 Ilem 4 4/ PLANNII.Jr.. AAI" 7flM,Alr.. ,,# .. do- 0/
5 II!m5 ~ 1'2. Pl/I\Llc.. h/((UH/~J , (J'
6 lIem6 :,0' I":].:' p"-;::,, H(.A....lf~ I' JJA~,~" 711 >, 0 ~
7 Ilem 7 c; /. ..h.M (luAPTr.R. .,,., (1SI/ M<i,J ':lI,C
6 Ileme ~I~ P,,/l,/IL #tAI.'.rJt'r 'r,IIJFrtr. <:7'1\"'/'\(',1 ',/(j Ii"
9 lIem9 ~O ..l "I'l',IJf 1,\" CJ." cr !'>1"N,r P':'61r(',- II
10 lIem 10 .( ~I A., ,"d. (,r: ""'" ~1-r.\I. VII, A. ,lrJl"~ I?- "
II lIem 11 " ~~ 1'./1'1 (",oj Ill' I\.. ).."",1/ "'TMt.',,\ 'n, ,~ "
......
12 Ilem 12 ~/ f "" 1 A.,.I"" 1.1r:"fl.'A.....",J , In 'I
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13 111m 13 ' , :J. ';1. 11.. ,,'.A_ (.,1'1 MA..IAr"r.,Q / Illy ArT'A ~II J I" II
14 lIem 14 J,'- lA" I I;,. (' 1\ oJ ~UfNl 'lAIr. (,1 1.,,./~"(1.. ~ I .
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15 lIem 15 a! I.L. LIAi}\I(.v 6~4(O J(tJI.I.Clllvr tl.4Kr.A/Nllolr.. II
16 Ilem 16 ,~~ '~IIP6m'l\ 1-1MnJNf- AfttMC I';lv "~A..J/fkr...fW'" p~~~ I'~ ') V
.. \
17 Ilem 17 :l,CJ " .AA, ,~~ nlt'ATl'C'" ,,,.:0 ". 213~, (,'~I1C.,if , 'J, J
40- ("'PM .....",H' ..,.~ '1';oJr( I /I))'!.LW/L/) SvBDIVI~I"N ~I ,
16 lIem 16 1
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19 lIeml9 1~:9.~ AM",,,,,,,,,,,.,i , I'J., I:
20 lIem20 II
21 II.m I'
22 Ilem
23 Ilem
24 lIem
25 3/4" tap~: .., I II', 113 114
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26 1/2' tape,'" I 112 113
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~lHaQf)a~Jfl~~Qf)~
uml)mllu, there Are thou'And. of hou.ekeepin~ pononnelln the United
SlAtu, IOrvin~ .nerAl fAcell includin~ .eAm.tm/
.eAm.treuu, interior dui~non, clothin~ room clerk., linen
pononnel, bed mAkon, ward workm And cu.todIDn. in the
DepArtment of VeterAn. ArrAin who work in 172 ho.pllAl.
nDtlonwide, And
umlJtrtllU, thOle dedicDted heAlth me profeuiol1AI. mAke A .ub.lAntlAl
contribution to qUDlity heDlth CDre in thia counh')' by
providln~ D 'AnilAry, eye AppeAlin~, AeJthetlcAlly plmin~
environment euentlAl for pAtient.' well.bein~, And
umlJtrtllU, the.e dedicAted IllllividuAI. oUer A vilAl.ervice to ~lou'And.
of our veterAn. And fAmiltea who pan ~lfou~h ~Ielr doon
every yeArl Dnd
~ll)mllU, the.e heDlth me profeuionAI., In order to preaerve D heDlthy
environment for the citizen. of ~Ie United SlAte.,
contlnuDlly expDnd ~Ielr trDlnln~, .kill. Dnd teclmlquea
throu~h D wide rDn~e of cOl1tinuin~ educDtion pro~rAm..
. i
now, tfJm(ort, I, John ~lcDonAld, ~IDyor of the City of 10WD City,
10wD, do hereby pmdDim the week of September 9,15, 1990, AI
~'Otl5elteeping ~eeh
In the City of IOWA City.
l(/;ft, 9t'Ju<-~{)
Sl~ned In 10WD Clty/loWD,
thla 4th dAY of September, 1990.
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