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Home My WebLink About2006-09-18 Transcription September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 1 September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: UISG: Staff: Bailey, Champion, Correia, Elliott, O'Donnell, Wilburn, Vanderhoef Baeth Atkins, Franklin, Helling, Holecek, Karr, Trueblood TAPES: 06:70 Sides I and 2; 06:71 Side I Additions: Sam's Pizza Wilburn: We've got a request by Sam's Pizza to transfer. What's that? Champion: (laughter) Wilburn: Karr: Wilburn: Karr: Wilburn: French: (laughter) Bailey: Wilburn: Franklin: Bailey: 1 have an ear infection, 1 can't hear. 1 did not treat it purposefully. No. We've got a request by Sam's Pizza about a transfer of a liquor license. To be added, This is one ofthe establishments that was relocated after the April storm, and they're ready now to transfer back. It does require Council action. Everything is in order, but it would need to be added late to the agenda. And Terry French is here if you have any questions, but everything is in order. Any questions? Ok. All right. We'll go ahead? Ok. Yep. We'll go ahead. Thanks for coming down. Ok. That was easy enough. You're welcome. That's the way we always do business. Ok. Karin. Yeah. Oh, 1 didn't laugh, did I? Nope. Planninl! and Zoninl! Items a) CONDITIONALLY REZONING 49.05 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF LOWER WEST BRANCH ROAD, NORTH OF COURT STREET AND WEST OF HUNTINGTON This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 2 DRIVE FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-S) ZONE TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY/lOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMilY RESIDENTIAL (OPDS) (REZ06- 00022) Franklin: Ok. First item is a public hearing on the 49.05 acres. This is part of the Stone Bridge Estates, Part 5 through 9, and the area that's being conditionally rezoned, it's for RS-5 to OPD5, and it's shown on this map. It hasn't been updated since you zoned this portion of the IDRS to RS-5. That's an action that was already taken by the Council. But what we're doing now is in the cross-hatched area, rezoning it from RS-5 to OPD5, and that has to do with the fact that it was going through a sensitive areas review, due to the fact that, as a consequence of farming in the area, there were a number of terraces that were formed and it exceeds the disruption of 3 5% of critical slopes. It's not an issue at all, but technically it needed to go through this process. The project is actually about single family housing development. There would be 139 lots. Everything is in order and it is ready to go, with a rec - a recommendetion, a recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission, 6 - o. Atkins: Karin, where's the stone bridge? Franklin: The stone bridge is kind of up by that arrow. It's right in here, and. Atkins: Can you see it from the road? Franklin: This is an out, ah, no, I don't think you can. You have to actually go down into the farmland. Atkins: Oh, ok. Thanks. Franklin: But this is an outlot here that will be dedicated to the City and the stone bridge is right in here. At such time as this property is developed to the east, we will try to get through the open space dedication property on the other side so you can take the stone bridge and cross the creek. But at this point, the stone bridge is not totally within the project area. Vanderhoef: Karin, the dedication of land is more for a pocket park kind of thing, Franklin: Yes. Vanderhoef: Rather than what we vision for neighborhood parks. It's much smaller? Franklin: Well, a pocket park or, there's two parts of it, really. And Terry's here ifhe can provide any input from the Parks and Recreation Commission. I keep losing my arrow. There is a trail system. This will be part of a trail system, that there will be a trail that comes up along the stream corridor, so that that is going to be part of enhancing the whole area. Technology. I love it. This is the area that was This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18,2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 3 accepted for dedication because of its exposure to the streets. What we found in Windsor Ridge South, south of Court Street Vanderhoef: Ah hah. Franklin: Is a lot of the ground there that was dedicated for public open space in fact feels very private. And in fact, it's not, it's not very welcoming for people in the community as a whole to go there, because it feels like you're in somebody's backyard. And so that was something that we were very cognizant of in looking at the dedication of open space here, and not taking all of the stream corridor because it's back in behind the lots. But, ensuring that the trail system continued and then getting the open space dedication for that portion where it was easily accessible by the public. Vanderhoef: So where in this neighborhood are we visioning the 5-7 acre park for these residents, that the neighborhood open space plan looks to have a larger park, which.is an active play space for children, that they don't have to cross busy streets and stuff to get to another park? Franklin: Can you answer that? That's probably fine, isn't it? Trueblood: Ah, to be honest with you, I don't recall exactly how much this outlot B is. I know they were a little bit short, so the Commission voted to accept that outlot plus lot 128. But I'm thinking it's an acre and a half to two acres in size. But like Karin indicated before, on the other side of the creek, as it develops, what we hope to do is get at least a couple of acres there right adjacent to this so that we would not only be able to preserve the old stone bridge but also have a park or in, more along the lines of what we'd like to have in size. Vanderhoef: Would it be possible, I don't know what the other side of the creek, what is required when that comes in, but if it wasn't at least 3 acres, is it possible to purchase some additional to make that bigger play area for the kids. Trueblood: That's always a possibility, yeah, and the Commission will typically look at something like that. You know, we haven't done that in quite a while. They'll typically look at something like that and think, well, we need an acre or two more, well maybe we can buy it. So that's always a possibility. Vanderhoef: Well, this density in there makes me want to get at least 3 acres over there so it's a big enough area for true kickball and active play by the kids. So, I don't know whether anybody else is, is interested in that, but what would be the nearest park to this one for these residents, then? Atkins: Scott Park. Trueblood: Well, we have Scott Park, but also, even closer than that, we've got some open space that hasn't been developed yet in the Lindemann subdivision, between Scott Park and this one, and then Windsor Ridge, the north edge of Windsor Ridge, is not all that far either. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _.._---~-'"'_._--~---_._._~-----_._._---_._~_.._._._--_..~._.~..._,"-_..__._.._-,-.-----_._,-., September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 4 Vanderhoef: Sometime I just like to see the map to sort of see where the distances are for the kids, because going across Scott Boulevard for young ones is not ideal, for that park at least. Trueblood: They wouldn't be going across Scott Boulevard. Vanderhoef: They have to cross. Trueblood: Court Street. Vanderhoef: Well, that's not much better. To me, those two are the boundary kind of barriers for that neighborhood, so, ah, I'm very interested in expanding that park, then, on the east side of the stream. Bailey: And then the trail comes up along the stream corridor in the back of these lots? Franklin: Well, I'm trying to read it, because what I'm seeing is. Right there, there's a trail shown, and then it looks like it stops at the outlot, which I guess we'd have to pick it up then to go on up to Lower West Branch Road. Bailey: So on up across the stream, but, and it starts down here? Is that with trail easement, or, how are we doing that? That's not open space dedication, right? Franklin: No. Trueblood: No, I don't think it is, the idea is trail Franklin: That's there's a trail in there, which is on the other side of the creek, Regenia, Bailey: Oh, ok. Franklin: And then it crosses over at that east-west road about halfway up. Bailey: Oh, I get it. A lot of lines in here. Vanderhoef: Show me with your pointer. Because I was thinking it. Bailey: Is outlot 0 down there, is that where you're starting? Franklin: Yup. Start down here and go up on that side of the trail. Wilburn: To that little T intersection. Bailey: And then it crosses. Got it. Franklin: And then you go across and then you go up. And I think, as I recall, the issue up here, the issue up at the north end is that we would take the trail on the east side, you would cross the stone bridge and then you would take the trail on the east side up to Lower West Branch Road. And so the completion of all of this is This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ,~-~--_._~---------~---"- -----,_._--_.._--~--------_." September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 5 dependent on the development of this property to the east of the creek, which is another owner. And will happen in time. Vanderhoef: And then, on the north side Franklin: Of Lower West Branch? Vanderhoef: Yes. What, what's coming in there that could be part of parkland? Franklin: It's all, it's all farm right now. It would have to be developed. So that's farm all the way over to Patia's. Vanderhoef: So that's a long time off, potentially. Franklin: I, yeah, 10 years at most, I don't know. Ok. Vanderhoef: Thank you. b) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY REZONING 1.12 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT 314 & 328 S. SOUTH CLINTON STREET FROM CENTRAL BUSINESS SUPPORT (CB-5) ZONE TO CENTRAL BUSINESS (CB-10) ZONE. (REZ06-00015) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin: Ok. Item b is second consideration on the rezoning of Hieronymus Square from CB-5 to CB-lO. c) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE VACATING THE EAST/WEST ALLEY IN BLOCK 102. (VAC06-00005) (SECOND CONSIDERATION Franklin: Item c is second consideration on the vacation of the east/west alley in Block 102, again, part of the Hieronymus Square consideration. d) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE REZONING APPROXIMATELY 9.53 ACRES OF LAND LOCATED EAST OF GILBERT STREET AND WEST OF SANDUSKY DRIVE FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT -RESIDENTIAL/HISTORIC DISTRICT OVERLAY (ID-RS/OHD) ZONE TO LOW DENSITY SINGLE- FAMILY RESIDENTIAL/HISTORIC DISTRICT OVERLAY (RS- 5/0HD), (REZ06-00010) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin: Item d is second consideration on the rezoning on Sand Road/Gilbert Street, the McCollister, the two lot around that historical property. e) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING FINAL PLAT OF SILVERCREST RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY - PART 3, IOWA CITY, IOWA. (SUB06-00010) (DEFERRED FROM 9/5) This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ... -~_..~,-- - --_.__..__._,-~.._---_.~--_...._-----------~,._--_._....._._-_.._"~- __..__.."._..___...____.___._ "'0 _ _ .__..____..._.____. .--------.--.,.--.--...-------.-. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 6 f) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF WINDSOR RIDGE PART TWENTY-B, IOWA CITY, IOWA (SUB06-00014) Franklin: Item e, we've had a request to defer this to October 3"', request from the developer, and likewise on item f, a request to defer Windsor Ridge, Part Twenty-B to October 3"'. Wilburn: I'm sorry, Karin, on Item a are you, is that still pending recommendation or is that? Franklin: Item a? Wilburn: Yeah. Bailey: Ready to go. Wilburn: It's ready to go. Is that correct? Bailey: That's what you said. Franklin: Yep. Wilburn: Ok. AIl right. Item 5d(1}. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR OCTOBER 3 ON AN AGREEMENT FOR PRIVATE REDEVELOPMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HIERONYMUS ASSOCIATES, INC. Franklin: While I'm up here, does anybody have anything on the Hieronymus Square proj ect? V anderhoef: Yes. I do, before you leave. Franklin: It's just on for setting a public hearing, and it's not a Planning and Zoning item, but I thought I'd try to get my. Vanderhoef: Get your time in now and then you can go home. Ok. I have two things that I would like Council to think about or see if there's interest in doing a little more negotiation with the developers. I would be interested in seeing ifthis project can go with out TIPing the condo floors of the building. I would like to get that piece onto the tax rolls sooner rather than later, and for high-end housing I, I feel that it's probably something that will pay on its own and not need TIF incentives. The second thing that I would like to see if we can do, and I talked with Karin earlier about this and I don't have an answer yet from Karin, but what, what I would like to do is, anything that is TIFed be the commercial areas of the building and I want to be assured that once the TIP has been paid out, that it remains commercial and not be condominiumized and change the property tax for our tax base. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ..____^....~....______.___.,'_..,.__._.._._____.,..,.__.~_____n____.__'''_____._____ September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 7 O'Donnell: Have we done that before? Vanderhoef: Pardon me? O'Donnell: Have we done that before? Vanderhoef: We have turned down, as I recall, TIFs for housing activities. O'Donnell: Have we done that on a TIF downtown? Vanderhoef: Aaaah, Bailey: The (can't hear) of these floors is that they be hotel, but there is the option that they would become apartments, and she's making the point if they became apartments O'Donnell: I know. Franklin: The only TIFs we have downtown right now is Plaza Towers. Otherwise, we have tax abatement, and the abatement is only on commercial properties. The housing is not. Champion: We do have a TIF downtown for residential properties. Franklin: In Plaza Towers, yes. O'Donnell: Which is in Plaza Towers. Champion: Yeah, Plaza Towers. Also, Vogel, now, what's, sorry. Part of the TIF for Plaza Towers also included the other building of Mark Moen's, didn't it? Franklin: It, the Vogel House, both the Vogel House and Plaza Towers are subjected to a minimum assessment, and that was to ensure that we would have adequate revenue to pay off the TIF bonds. I mean, remember, these two projects are very, very different in that regard. Champion: I know that. Franklin: In that Hieronymus Square is a rebate in their, the only thing that is paid to the developer is what they or the other owners ofthe property pay in taxes. Correia: Is there a reason why we wouldn't do a tax rebate on this rather than a TIF? Franklin: It is a tax rebate. Correia: No, but I mean, it's different than or abatement, I'm sorry, tax abatement. Franklin: Ok, there's tax rebate, tax abatement is a different tool. It's, it's possible that you could do tax abatement under what we have in place right now on commercial This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. - '.- -,.._-".~._-----,_.,...,.__.._._---,",...-._----,-----.--..-.------.--.- - ,,--,.,..~_.. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 8 only. That's a different financial profile, in that in tax abatement, the developer has two options: to abate the taxes 100% for 3 years, or to abate them over 10 years at a graduated schedule which starts at 80% abatement and decreases to 0 abatement over that 10 year period. Correia: So that could be an option on this development. Franklin: That is an option that is available. That's not one the developer has chosen in approaching the City. Correia: Right, right, that would be qualified for it. Champion: I, Dee, I think your idea is good, but the problem I have with it is, let's say there's 3 floors of apartments, and that commercial property does pay commercial rent. Let's say that Mike goes in there and buys, makes them condominiums, or Mike goes in and buys, well, I guess that wouldn't work that way, then he couldn't rent it to anybody. But if they condominiumize them, which you're trying to stop them from doing, Vanderhoef: I'm trying to keep all rental properties as commercial property, rather than be. Champion: Well, I understand that, that's. Elliott: And not TIF residential. Champion: Well, I'm not really, I'm happy with what we're doing. Franklin: There's two parts to what Dee has raised. One is that the TIF rebate be only on the commercial value, so say we have a 40 million dollar taxable value, and half of the project is residential and half is non-residential, and I'm really simplifying this grossly. Champion: Right, right, right. Franklin: Then the TIF would only be on the 20 million that was commercially or non- residential property. As it stands, in the current agreement, the rebate is on the entire project. However, if half ofthose are residential properties that are condominiumized then there is a portion of that taxable value which will be rolled back, and now we're only taxing on 48% of the value. So again, without being precise in numbers, if20 million taxable value, you only tax 10 million of it, so the total taxable value that would pay taxes and get the rebate would be 30 million. Correia: And is it possible to do that, what Dee is suggesting? Is it possible? Franklin: It is possible to do it, yes. I, yes. Wilburn: I guess I'd like to, I mean, I read the minutes from the Economic Development Committee, but I guess I would be curious about their reaction to Dee's suggestion. I know you had another conversation at a second, a supplemental This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _._~~----------_._"----_.._--~-~-----~--- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 9 Franklin: Wilburn: Bailey: Champion: Holecek: Champion: Holecek: Champion: Wilburn: meeting, and I think you were looking in your negotiation to not only reduce risks for the City but to find out what other potential non-monetary benefits there might be that the developer were willing to agree. You talked about additional setback, talked about the potential for the environmental impact, so I guess maybe can you talk me through, was this something that you had discussed with the developer, the possibility of this, or were you focused on just some of the other potential non-monetary benefits where, you know, if they include some things that would be a benefit, again, other than, I'm talking the non-monetary and how that, I guess, can, how much weight does that carry in terms of what you were hoping The focus was Also, I think you talked about trying to get better assurance about the hotel and the additional floor of commercial, but go ahead. We focused really hard on getting more commercial, because the original proposal did not have guarantees of this much commercial. And so we were happy with the amount of commercial space that we thought that this building was going forward with. Additionally we talked about the environmental standards, which we, I think, all felt provided some public benefit as well as the opportunity to lead, literally, in a direction to encourage other developers to consider this as they, as we redevelop the south of Burlington Street. What did you want to add to that? Well, I also think that we, we also got some concessions, the ones Regenia is talking about. They did agree to add another floor of commercial property. Now, whether it will be apartments or what it will be, we don't know that yet. And they are strongly still looking into the possibility of some hotel rooms in this building. So the design is not really totally done yet, as far as what's going to go into this building. And I think we had some really good conversations with them, and I was really concerned about TIFing the residential property. Once we got another floor of commercial promised to uS with the possibility of more and the benefits in the long term for the City of having this new spectacular building across the other side of Burlington, consider it a real asset, and so I'm very happy with the final agreement we carne up with. I like your idea, I however am not willing to change my mind or go back to negotiations at this point. If! can just jump in, too. No, no. I'm happy with this building. Sorry, Connie. This is just setting the public hearing, so I just want to be careful that we don't get into necessarily the machinations of how you got to your negotiated point, because I think that's all very valuable for the public hearing. Ok. Ok. Thank you. That's a good reminder. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ~______..__ _ ".___m_.____~_____.._~_...~'_.._____.... -_.-...".__...~-_.~......._-----_._- .-..._-----'" September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 10 Vanderhoef: One of the things that I really wanted to do was get this out so the developer had an opportunity to think about it for the two weeks before the public hearing, because they are interested, as am I, in keeping this process moving along. So, to spring it at the public hearing was not what I thought was best for either of us. Correia; Is there, is there a business plan for this project that I could take a look at before the public hearing? Franklin; We do not have a business plan. I can't say that there's no business plan, but Correia; Oh, ok. Bailey; There's no public business plan. Franklin: Yes, if those numbers are shared with the Council members, it will become public. There was some proprietary information that was shared. Correia: Oh, I understand that, but when we, when the CBDG Economic Development Fund loans out money, there's the requirement of a business plan, and that's generally much smaller money that we're dealing with there. No, I understand financials and that you've seen financials or that someone's seen financials, but I guess I'm a little surprised that we don't have a business plan or a market analysis. Franklin: I understand, I understand what you're saying, and I think if, if this project had been like Plaza Towers, in that there were going to be bonds that were going to be sold, we would, we would take a very different approach to it. With this particular type of tool, there's absolutely no risk to the City whatsoever. Correia: Cause it doesn't come in at, it doesn't Franklin; Ifit doesn't come in at 40 million dollars taxable value, there is no TIP. None. Correia: So if it comes in at 35 million, taxable then. Has to be 40 million. Wilburn; They have to perform. Franklin: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I mispoke. If Bailey: 40 million dollars in construction. Franklin; 40 million dollars in construction costs, not 40 million dollars in taxable value. They have to have 40 million dollars in construction costs. Ifthat doesn't happen, if it's not a 12 story building, if it does not have 3 stories of commercial, there is no TIP. Correia; That's only 3 Wilburn: They have to make the investment. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting ofSepternber 18, 2006. ._-_...~_...._------~-------_.."'_..,...._._""-_. .------..- . n' ..___~,_..",.__...__.___..__.__________'_'___'___'__~_'_ September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 11 Correia: That's only 3 required floors, and we asked for 6. Franklin: 3 required floors of commercial. It started out as 2 required floors of commercial. It was increased to 3 required floors of commercial, a best effort to place a hotel on floors 4,5 and 6. If that hotel did not succeed or did not continue once it was placed there, that those units could become apartments. Correia: Apartments that will be commercial or condos that will be residential? Either? Franklin: It just says apartments. Correia: So it could be either. Vanderhoef: Well, apartments Franklin: We probably need to have more discussion of this next time, in anticipation of the public hearing, because you're just setting the public hearing and it really isn't on the agenda for a lot of discussion and Sarah's gonna start hitting me. Correia: Well, it's an agenda item. Holecek: But it's just setting a public hearing, it's not really to go through the merits and the discussion this in-depth. Wilburn: It's just setting a public hearing. I guess what I would recommend is if Council has, if Council members have something that they would like the developers to address during the public hearing, then to either submit that to them through Karin or submit that to them directly. Elliott: Is it appropriate for me to respond further to Ross's question? Holecek: Which question? Elliott: His question was wondering about our discussion and examination ofthe application. And our thoughts as it was being recommended to the full Council. Holecek: As part of the E.D. Committee? Elliott: Yeah. Holecek: I mean, it's better I believe, for the public hearing so that the public gets a chance, besides just the public here to Elliott: Later. Holecek: Do that. Ok. Wilburn: Otherwise, I guess I would just put that recommendation out there, for Council members who want to hear more from the developer there. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. - --------- .- ---_.~-----_._.._-_._...._._..,_."~._-." -~---_.,--~_._-_._.-"'- -----_._--"~_.._-~.-.._-'_..._..- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 12 V anderhoef: Well, I stated mine. Sand Lake Recreation Area ITEM 13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE TERMS ON WHICH THE CITY WILL PURCHASE A 160. ACRE PARCEL OF LAND LOCATED AT 4213 S.E. SAND ROAD, AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST DOCUMENTATION OF THE SAME. Wilburn: Ok. Trueblood Lake. Vanderhoef: No, it's Trueblood Golf Course. With a big water hazard. Trueblood: Ah, before we get into the slides, I'd like for you to keep in mind that you've got a lo-tech mind in a high-tech world here. I don't know how to operate this. Elliott: I'm with you. Trueblood: Also, on the booklets that you have in front of you, on the third page, I want to call your attention to this picture, which I don't have a slide of. Yeah. That's the, that's the aerial of Sand Lake, give you a good idea as to what it looks like right now. Ijust have a few slides to show you, and I believe every one of these slides is also included in this booklet, and there's more in this booklet. I apologize also, I'm one short at the table. Champion: We'll share. Trueblood: Ok. That's nice of you. I was counting on that. At any rate, I wanted to show you here on this, if! can figure this out. Let's see. Oop. Oh well. Never mind. Ok. I can go back. Got the arrows down. I wanted to show you, explain to you that that water spout coming up is not a whale and those other gadgets in there are not sharks. Those are actually small sailing vessels. Champion: Really. Trueblood: Yeah. This area, as you know, we've been looking at for at least a couple of years, and if you approve it tomorrow night, I believe it is, the purchase price of this, and we've really got a deal for you after that. The size is approximately 158 acres. The water is about 80 to 85 acres of that. First slide, I just want to show you on the north shore of that, purpose of this slide is to show you that not all the shores down there are pristine. You have to keep in mind that this was a sand and gravel operation for many, many years, so there are some areas that require quite a lot of work to make it open and useable by the public. On the other hand, the west shoreline you see here is a more pristine area. There are more shorelines like this than there are like the first one. They're still going to require work, but not as much. Then this is an area, as it shows, from the Peninsula to the north, so you're looking north and the buildings up there are the existing sand and gravel operation buildings. You have some dematerial buildings. Now it mentions This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. "..__.__.~__~_. _ ____________._____________..___________.__.__'"_n______~__._ _..M_~_.~____._.___.__.________..,___ ..__.."'..__ _. _.__ ________._._.___.._ .0- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 13 Peninsula, and we'll get into that here a little bit more, cause we have two Sand Lakes, we sure don't need two Peninsulas. Bailey: Absolutely. Elliott: Here, here. Trueblood: We think that this, what we're referring to as the Peninsula is going to be a very nice feature to this area, or certainly has potential to be. This slide is showing you the water as it is. Most of it is deep water. There hasn't been any soundings taken, so we don't know exactly how deep it is, but you notice the lighter blue area, the shallow zone, they estimate 10-15 feet in depth along there. The mudflat is pretty much just what it says, you know, it's an area that's generally under a little bit of water, but sometimes it's out of the water, but not useable for anything really. Here, there are some flood issues, but we don't think serious flood issues. You see the Iowa River there, and you see the dark blue area, that shows the flood way, and then the kind of light brown areas all around the lake are areas that are above the \00 meter flood plain. The 100 year flood. On this one, it shows you where the streets and trails are, or are proposed to be. Obviously I can't work it, but you can see going across the top in an east/west direction there's the proposed McCollister Boulevard and then going down and basically a north/south direction of Sand Road or Gilbert Street, and then the dotted line across the bottom is, I believe it's called White Eagle Road right now, and as I understand it, there may be some long range plans for Sycamore to extend through there. The darker red line, dotted red line, is showing what we hope to be the trail route, someway. It goes all the way around the lake and then over beside the River, where it shows trail option. But keep in mind that between the River and the Lake, basically where that optional trail is shown, is not City property at this time, ok? It's property that we'd definitely like to take a look at some time so we can have the property all the way over to the River and make a nice addition to this. Vanderhoef: Are there any buildings on that area? Trueblood: Further north there are. Wilburn: There's cabins up there. Vanderhoef: The north. But to the west there, where the? Bailey: Trail option I? Cabins in there? Trueblood: Not right where it show trail option I, but further north up towards, a little bit up towards the McCollister Road there are. Bailey: Not north of McCollister, yeah. Trueblood: It'll show it a little bit better on another slide as we get to it. This was the original concept that we had the consultant draw up for us. And the final concept, as we'll get to here shortly, is not very different from this at all. It's got the shelters, the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 14 O'Donnell: Trueblood: Correia: Trueblood: Correia: Trueblood: Correia: trails, the parking, the jettee, the restrooms all included in it, which brings us, this is the master plan aerial, or final master plan, as they call it. It's basically, superimposed upon an aerial photograph. Now there, if you look over toward the River, you can see the roadway and where some building do exist. That and showers. Right. If you, if! can just kind of walk you through this, if you start up at the top there, where it shows McCollister Boulevard coming across, and then it's the main entry. It shows, consultants are proposing that the main entry come right off of McCollister Boulevard. And then as you come down the west shoreline, around the parking area, so forth, the, that's what they call the main park complex. And, you know, it has the parking, the marina jettee. One oftheir proposals is that that marina could be used for small sailing boats, paddleboats, canoes, kayaks, that sort of thing - non-motorized boats. It also has a lodge as they call it, which is a main park structure that could house any number ofthings. As we work our way down that west shore, the, you see the clumps of trees in there. It's mainly for visual purposes, to basically not to hide the view in but the view out. A lot of the light green area, is sand prairie. And then right around the pond's edge are emergent aquatic plantings. There's a lot ofplantings that would be required to get to where we want to go. Trail system of course, all the way around the lake. Down at the south end, that Peninsula area that I talked about. What's being proposed is a large shelter with an overlook. Parking down there to accommodate it. We can envision that being a very popular area, not just for picnics, that sort of thing, but possibly even for weddings. As we go past that in an easterly direction, there is a beach area there, a beach promenade, parking for it, and then just continuing all around the lake. The small brown circles that you see, they're proposing 6 fishing piers. We think it'll be a very popular fishing spot. Shelters, a number of shelters all the way around, and as you get back up towards the north end, you would see there what we'd probably call the main beach area. Again, it's kind of the reflection of the south one, but there are two beach areas proposed for this area. Are those, would these beaches have lifeguards? Pardon me? Would there be lifeguards? We haven't gotten into the operations of it yet. That's one, one extreme would be, yes, have lifeguards, have it buoyed off, charge admission, let people swim. The other extreme would be no swimming. Somewhere it might be swim at your own risk kind of thing, without lifeguards and no charge, that kind of deal. So there's a number of options. But those are the kinds of things that would have to be looked at as we really develop this and start getting into the operations aspect of this. And then the large, the idea with the large shelter, would that be enclosed? Would there be any place on here where there could be, you know, large group meetings or also weddings that would have, would be indoors? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. --~-~-",-_._-'-"- .__.~--_._-_._----""---,,._._..._,--_.,._~-- ,,-~"-----, , September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 15 Trueblood: Champion: Correia: Champion: Trueblood: Champion: Trueblood: Bailey: Champion: Trueblood: Champion: Trueblood: Champion: Trueblood: Correia: Trueblood: Our discussions to point have been likely like 2 indoor buildings and the rest like open -air shelters. I think that would be terrific. Yeah, so that the public could rent them. Big demand for that kind of space. The only thing, I see something that, I'm wondering ifit was thought about, or maybe, I know it's just a drawing, but are those fishing docks on the beach area? No. Ok. They have square, oh the round ones are the fishing things. The round ones are the fishing piers. Round ground. Ok. The beach areas each show a small shelter right behind. Ok. Thank you. In case we wanted to catch somebody. And all this for only 5.7 million dollars. Oh, is that all? I do, you do have the very preliminary cost estimates. I handed that sheet out to you. But I also wanted to emphasize that they are very preliminary, there's a lot of things to be worked through, and frankly, if we had all the money up front that would be great. I don't know what I'd do. I'm not sure I ever had a project with all the money up front. Short of a rest room. But anyway, we would look at this as possibly having to be phased in over a period of several years, working at it gradually to get it done. In terms of, you were talking about having non-motorized boats, is this something that you have to bring in your own, or is there some thought that the City would operate rentals, like at Lake McBride? Again, it could go either way, and that's something that we would have to talk more about as far, when we start getting into operations. For example, paddleboats, where do you find those? Typically, they're rented, that would be something, if we did that, that would be something that we the City could operate or we the City could put out for bid and let a concessionaire operate. And if we put it out to bid, we would probably do so such that the concessionaire could rent canoes, could rent kayaks, paddleboats and small sailboats, the whole gamut. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ------~- .._--,----~~--- ------_._.._~._..__..__.._-_. --,.._--_.__._.._"_._-~----_._. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 16 Elliott: How secure are you in the long range? How secure are you planning for this area? Correia: Secure. Champion: I couldn't hear. Trueblood: Secure, you mean, as having it fenced in? Elliott: I mean, this community of 62,0000 people, more people in the country, there are 30,000 university students, there's a lot of happenings that could take place out there. Trueblood: Ok. That depends greatly, Bob, I think, on how we decide the operations are going to be. If it's going to be something that's very much geared towards larger, fancier buildings, concession operations, boating operations, all that kind of thing, I think we have to look at making it more secure than if it' s more of just a casual, "here it is folks, you can come fishing and you can walk on the trails." Wilburn: At this point, though, I presume, you're showing this as a concept, and what we'll be voting on tomorrow is the purchase of the property, and we're, it's kind of neat, and this is more for the benefit of the media that's present, that we're talking about trying to reclaim a piece of property that's been used as, like you said, the quarry type operations and a chance to add an amenity, something that could sit, be an eyesore, and Trueblood: That's exactly right. O'Donnell: What's the total acreage, Terry? Trueblood: 158. Vanderhoef: I, I want to know the possibilities of the using this for storm water drainage area and how that might also be used as flood control on the Iowa River, whether we would have any conversation with the Corps of Engineers to do something similar to what was done in Ames, that it holds back water until they choose to let it out into the River? I recognize that we have a lot of underground passaging in there, but they were able to use Corps of Engineer dollars and also some County conservation dollars in a collaborative project that did a lot of things up there, and I'd like to see if we can expand this into a more regional, County collaboration kind of park and see if we can put it together for potentially a Vision Iowa project. If not Vision Iowa, at least a CAT Grant to help do this and additional dollars. Bailey: I think CAT Grant project. I mean, we see these all the time. Vanderhoef: I think so too. Correia: Especially I think ifthere is opportunities for the outdoor recreation there. I mean, the only place you can go and rent boats that are already at the lake, This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 17 without having to bring it yourself, that I'm aware of, is Lake McBride. It would be great to have something so close but still feels farther away from the downtown. Vanderhoef: Tell me, where does this lie in conjunction with Isaac Walton on the west side of the River? Trueblood: This, ifI recall correctly, this would be north Wilburn: Northwest of? Trueblood: Actually, mostly west of, and a little bit south of, the lake, I believe. Anybody know that area? Vanderhoef: Mostly west. Trueblood: Mostly west and a little bit south. I'm pretty sure. Vanderhoef: Well, I think it is too, and that might be a potential of collaborating with a county organization for Isaac Walton. Trueblood: But, to respond to your comments earlier, it just so happens that the consultant we're using on this is the same one who they worked with in Ames on that project. Vanderhoef: Good. Trueblood: So they probably have the answers we need. This, which, Vanderhoef: The lake is northeast Trueblood: The lake is northeast ofIsaac Walton. Bailey: The lake is northeast, Isaac Walton is north Trueblood: It's further south here, which means Isaac Walton would be southwest, right? Bailey: Over there. Elliott: Good thinking. Vanderhoef: I'm just thinking trail bridges and various and sundry things to cross the river and connect the two areas would be a. Baeth: How's the fishing at the lake right now? Trueblood: Pardon me? Baeth: How's the fishing? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18,2006. __ __ .m'.___.___._.___.___m_________..__~_._..___~"__._._______,___._~,__._n'_.~~'_"_._._______._.__ September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 18 Trueblood: I haven't caught a thing out of it, but then, I haven't been fishing there either, so. Correia: Are there fish? Trueblood: I don't know, because Bailey: Could it be stocked? Trueblood: It's still private property, it's still supposed to be offlimits. But from what I understand, there are a lot of fish in there. Vanderhoef: The conservation people would stock it if they thought we needed it stocked. If we were going to open it. (all talk - can't hear) O'Donnell: It's about 80 acres. Vanderhoef: Say it out loud. Champion: I'm trying to visualize the size. Could somebody help me? What is 80 acres? Well, how big is City Park? Atkins: 130. Trueblood: 107. City Park is 107. Correia: in City Park? Elliott: This is half again larger. Correia: Upper and lower City Park, the whole City Park? Bailey: So, lower City Park? Trueblood: No, that's all of City Park. Lower City Park is about 75 or 77. Vanderhoef: This is big. Correia: So the lake is as big as Bailey: Lower City Park. Trueblood: Oh, I'm sorry, yeah, that's correct. I missed the first part of your statement. Bailey: We were just trying to visualize it. Vanderhoef: You can put both on it -you really can! Light bulb! This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 19 Elliott: Has anyone talked with the County about this? Has the County shown any interest? Trueblood: We have not spoken directly with them, no. Elliott: I sure like the idea, and I have some financial questions about it too, later, but I just, this would be, we have a joint City/County Senior Center. I would like, I think this would be a neat joint County/City project. Bailey: Ifwe're going for O'Donnell: A joint City/County Senior Center that we fund about 90% of. Champion: Does that mean a joint project they get the credit for it? Elliott: I would like it to be a joint project. Wilburn: It starts with the purchase of the land, so. Bailey: Yep. Champion: Right. Bailey: But at what point will we, I mean, I think there's some merit, just sitting on the Vision Iowa board, I think there's some merit in considering a CAT application for this project. I mean, granted, it would take County dollars, it will take private dollars and City, but, but before we move too far into this. I mean, purchasing the land is one thing, but before we move too much farther we should decide ifthat's what we're going to do, because we, then it's a different approach to the entire project, really, about funding. Vanderhoef: Yeah, because you want to put funding together up front to make your presentation. Bailey: Yeah. Because that's less money in. Vanderhoef: Yeah. Correia: When are those, when are those applications, are they accepted? Bailey: Every month. The CAT grant is accepted every month. I don't think we'd do a Vision Iowa, the Vision Iowa (Tape ends) Vanderhoef: It would be for next year a Vision Iowa project and for instance, Storm Lake got a 6 million dollar grant and went back when they expanded their project, which happened to be 20 more hotel rooms. They got another million dollars, so they're up to 7 million for a water project. Bailey: Right. But I wouldn't encourage that approach. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 20 Wilburn: How far has the Commission looked in terms of this time table for this, or not? Has there been any discussion or? Trueblood: The Commission voted to accept the concept when we had two concepts proposed. Wilburn: Right. Trueblood: They voted to accept concept two, which was more recreational oriented, as opposed to completely preservation oriented kind of thing. So they, that's all they've done, to date. And that's the concept that you saw tonight is the one that they voted on, in more refined form. We have a long ways to go yet, in regards to getting to a final design, and an even longer ways to go til we, you know, really discuss operations, so. Vanderhoef: I'd like to, to do a little visioning in, is this, if we were to enroll the County into a project, then I would look at whether there was a campground near this area all along the River. There are some other things that could be done in that area that would be a destination to Iowa City, Johnson County. Champion: All we're talking about tomorrow is purchasing the land. Isn't that correct? Vanderhoef: Mm hmm. But we may need to do a visioning kind of work session that could look at all sorts of possibilities and throw out nothing until we've heard all the possibilities and then we'll get down to what might be feasible. Wilburn: Well Terry, clearly, you've got an indication that the Council is looking at perhaps broadening the players involved, that perhaps the vision for this. So can you take it back to the Commission to let them know that and check with them on their schedules and possibly scheduling a joint work session with the Council to talk about? Trueblood: Assuming, assuming you approve purchase of the grounds. Wilburn: Yep. Elliott: My question has to do with that. Bailey: We're so far beyond purchase that. Elliott: Do we know of anyone else who's interested in this? I'm disappointed at the million dollar figure, and it seems to me, I don't know of anything that, this property has no value as to anything other than this, and why we need to pay a million dollars for it. Now, this, I like this, I had this idea before I came to Council, but I'm wondering if we can't put off buying. How much taxes are they paying on this land? So we're not only spending money, we're giving up taxes. I would like to hold offfor awhile and see if we can't come up with a better price. Bailey: Is there a time concern about this purchase? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ______._._.,_______..__. _' ___~_._ _.,__"_____'_"_ _,,_,_,__'___'_"__" , - _._____ ----_.._.'0 _ _.__________ - --.-.-----.--.-...-.~'""."..------'--.----.---.-.---" September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 21 Trueblood: Well, to be honest with you, I wasn't directly involved in the negotiation of it and. Atkins: We had an appraisal done at 750, they had an appraisal done, it came in at a million three. Elliott: What, what, how much taxes come off this land now? Atkins: I couldn't tell you. Find that out, probably Vanderhoef: Commercial. Elliott: If, if they're telling us it's worth a million bucks, I just think that's a pretty steep price to pay for this land, which, this is about the only thing that could be done with it. Champion: I think you can see houses around it. Atkins: You could see houses Bailey: You could develop around it. Champion: I could see it being developed with some very expensive lots. I think it would be pretty nice. O'Donnell: I could see tremendously expensive lots. Champion: Yes. O'Donnell: Dock going out to the lake and that. Bailey: And the lack of public access. Champion: Yes. I agree with you. I think a million dollars is ridiculous. But I can see a developer paying a million dollars for it and putting in some really nice lots with a beautiful lake and some stuff in front of you. Wilburn: That's why I had said earlier that I'm looking at it as you don't often have an opportunity for such a large piece of property to claim it for a public, a public piece. Elliott: Will this be bonded? Atkins: Yes. Vanderhoef: I certainly won't be hesitant to go back and ask them for dollars if we put together a Vision Iowa and we're trying to raise 2 or 3 million dollars in the community. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ,..~_.________._..______...__.__~_____.~___..____.___________.,,_~__,.._...,._..._.,______._______..__ "n September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 22 Elliott: Atkins: Elliott: Bailey: Champion: Atkins: Elliott: (laughter) Elliott: Champion: Elliott: Champion: Elliott: Champion: Correia: Elliott: Bailey: Elliott: Is there anything else that's going to be, go wanting, that you see. We have not seen the budget. I have not seen how this fits into next year's budget, into the next three year's budget. Well, we did budget for it last year. We show that as, we budgeted over a three year period of 200,400,400, and so, we anticipated the purchase of the property. The seller is willing to sell now. Ok. The only. We don't have to vote for it right away. The seller is willing to sell, now. I think the assessment of the fact that you could see high-end residential along the shores of that, I really think you could. Yeali. I'm thinking immediately of, yeah, I agree with Connie. I think she pointed out the fallacy of my question, because. I'm thinking of the lake when you drive by 1-80 in Lincoln. You used to see a large body of water there, and now the houses are such between that body and 1- 80 you don't see, it looks like the water is gone. I also, I think you know, I'm totally in favor of buying this land. I don't know if I'm willing to develop it. No. It could be 10 or 15 years down the road. Yes. Or 20. I may long be gone, but you have to have it to develop it. For the park? Yes. The only thing I would say about this, you know, the timing of it, is if we really think we're going to apply for a grant, holding off and making that part of the package might be beneficial. I don't know. But, if there's a time concern, I'm interested in moving ahead on it. I would certainly take a look, love to look at County/City sharing. I'd love to look into all the aspects that you have mentioned about State support, federal support, anything like that. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 23 Bailey: It's not free money. Champion: But that can be done after. Vanderhoef: I, I think the City commitment of already purchasing and putting a million dollars. Bailey: It won't count as part of the project that we're applying for. Elliott: No, but that's. Bailey: Ifwe've already purchased the land. But if we are purchasing the land in the, as we are applying for the grant, then that would count as City contribution. Does that make sense? Wilburn: I'm gonna, I'm gonna move us along, because I've already asked Terry to talk to the Commission about trying to look for a day for possibly doing the discussions that we're just having now, and I think we've had a pretty rich discussion about what mayor may not happen. Elliott: However, after hearing what Regenia said, that would temper my vote as to whether or not to authorize the purchase of this. Wilburn: You can sleep on it. I'm going to move us on. Elliott: Ok. Wilburn: All right. Good. Vanderhoef: We're done contract. Trueblood: Whoever. Wilburn: I'm gonna move us onto the next. Trueblood: Whoever would like to keep the booklet, have that, fine, but if you don't think you want it, I'd like to have them back, please. Vanderhoef: I'm going to keep it for a little bit. Bailey: I'm going to keep it for a little bit. Mobile Vendinl! Permits Wilburn: Mobile vending permits. We've got the memo from Steve, information packet #2, just kind of states what is and that staff doesn't recommend increasing the number of mobile vendors on City Plaza beyond the existing 6. So I guess I'll put it out there for discussion. Are we wanting to hear more from Steve on this or about the recommendation. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _~~.______,"___'_'_'_'_._____'___'_~'_ _.____,_._.,_,.._~_..__ ___._...__,,___ _.'_m_ ..____. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 24 Correia: Ijust have a question. Wilburn: Go ahead. Correia: Is there any opportunity right now for 2 vendors to share a permit? Bailey: Mmm mmm. Elliott: No. Correia: Right. So is that, you know, so there are some vendors, so they have the, you have a license, you get a license, and then there are certain times that the vendor has to be there. Helling: Right. Every day. Correia: II, or whatever those are, during the day, and then they have the option of using the, their space in the Ped Mall any other time, right, up until? Helling: Right. They can be there all day and all night. Correia: Right. If they wanted to be. And so there, how many of, do we know, of the current 6 operate outside of their required hours? Helling: I think they all do, to some extent. The one, the coffee cart, is generally not there at night, the others are there, particularly Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights, either regularly or, more often than not, I think, in those evening hours. The, a couple of vendors have sort of put it to us this way: being down there during the day is the price you pay for the privilege of being down there at night. Elliott: Yep. Bailey: Right. Helling: And that's not the way it was originally intended, but that's just the way it turned out. Vanderhoef: It was interesting. I was at a meeting in Marshalltown on Friday and a couple of the Des Moines staffers were there and talking about vending carts, and when I said we had set hours that they had to be there, it was like a light bulb for them, because they can't keep anybody down on their streets with their carts after lunch hour, and they would like to have them there in the evening to help generate some activity downtown in the evening. And it was like, oh, well, maybe that, that's a possibility. I said we've got even one more possibility that some ofthem are wanting late night. Helling: And the requirement to be there during the day really wasn't, at the time it was put in place there wasn't this popularity for the nighttime vending, it was just because we knew there were expectations of people that go down there, there's a lot of people down there at lunch time and they expect the vendors to be there so This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 25 Elliott: Helling: Elliott: Helling: Elliott: Helling: Elliott: Bailey: Elliott: Correia: Bailey: Elliott: Helling: Elliott Wilburn: Champion: Elliott: that they could buy lunch. Urn, like I say, it's evolved to the point now, I'm not saying they can't make money during the day, but it ain't a lot more than that. So you could not have a certified or lease to dual operation anything that would be of that sort would have to be worked out informally between two people. The person who gets the permit is responsible. Yeah. They can hire other people to work for them and so forth. Yeah - they can do that informally, we just don't want to do it with more than one person. Permits are not transferable, so you can not lease it to somebody else and you can't sell it. No, but they can work that out however they wanted to do it. But if you, if for example, you were selling coffee, right If! wanted to say, I want to operate, I'd like to operate your cart during the day and you say yeah, give me $50.00 and you can do it, there's nothing wrong with that. It has to be their cart, though. Yeah. If it's the coffee cart, it's the coffee cart, it can't be barbecue sandwiches. Oh, yeah. Sure. No, no. Yeah. We would consider that anybody who has a permit, somebody else working there is their employee. Yeah, yeah. And I suspect that's already happened, because some of the people who came forward against this in the first place I've seen working on those, some of the ones who are working out of their trucks are working at some of the other carts. I think it's important, important we have minimum hours and, I'm sorry, $750.00 is not a lot of money. And also, there are days that I don't want to be opened, I could close if! wanted to, but there is an expectation that somebody's going to come in. I mean, we have days that we're really busy and sell a lot of clothes. We have other days that we don't sell a lot of clothes. That doesn't mean we close our doors. Oh, I don't want to work on Tuesday afternoons because we're never busy. Do you sell out of a cart? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 26 Champion: No, but maybe I will. What I'm saying is, when they say that they're not busy during the day, that doesn't mean there isn't an expectation that they should be there. Elliott: I think what we're saying is it's working now. Champion: I didn't mean you personally. Bailey: Well, one of the things we agreed to explore is the possibility of increasing the number of permits available. That came up in that discussion. And this memo indicates that 6 seems to be an appropriate number. I don't know what that's based upon. But, I mean, that would be a question I would put out there. Did we want to open it up? Why does 6 seem an appropriate number? Is it a space, or? Helling: We assign them 2 spaces, and they can move back and forth between those 2 spaces, and it's just, there's some congestion, it's a judgement call, but we always had 5 and then when the construction was finished on the east leg of the College Street right of way, that's when we said let's put on a 6th one out there and see if that works. As it turns out, nobody wanted to be there anyway, so we just have one more that's either along the Dubuque Street right of way during the day, or over on the College Street leg at night. Wilburn: I would suggest, if you, if you eyeball it in the evening, with the sidewalk cafes and the pedestrian mall now and the volume of people, it's probably, probably Bailey: Mmm hmm. Well, and Tait's is doing some vending too, so there's ample opportunity to eat outside. Vanderhoef: The vendors were there before sidewalk cafes, so the space they were using for their people around the carts is not as available now. So I see no reason to change. Elliott: Working. O'Donnell: I'm comfortable with the six. Wilburn: All right. Let's. Bailey: Ijust wanted to check in, because people talked about that. Helling: Now remember, we do have, we have one on Iowa Avenue; now, the second one didn't go out there, but there is one and we will select up to two. Bailey: Right. Vanderhoef: Space is available. Bailey: Nice if that could go, but. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. __....~_~____~'^ ... _._..._.,_______,___._..._.__.___ 0" "... ..__~_._______.______.____ September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 27 Champion: I could imagine there's not much interest. Helling: There's not a lot, yeah. Wilburn: Ok. Let's come back, quarter 'til. Take a break. Vehicle For HirelTaxi Cabs Wilburn: I think most people are back. Ok. Vehicle for hire. Vehicle for hire. Taxicabs. We have included in the information packet the proposed ordinance. In addition, we have enclosed the Cedar Rapids ordinance which, essentially, is what most or, if not all of the changes are based. I think included is an example of what another community does. So I guess again, this is one of those, where do we want to go with this? Correia: I have some questions. Vanderhoef: I'd like to say I got an email which was unsigned but brought up something that isn't being suggested here, and this particular person identified himself as a previous cabdriver and no longer is a cabdriver because he feel unsafe and he feels that there should be the plexiglass between the front and the back seat. That he is aware of four or five instances where the seatbelt on the driver has been used to restrain the driver by somebody in the backseat grabbing on the seatbelt and pulling it up into a choke position while they rob them and then leave. So. I didn't bring it because it was unsigned, but it did bring up something to think about. O'Donnell: That's fairly graphic. I've not read any of that. Vanderhoef: I have no background where these happened or anything else. Atkins: (can't hear) I can't recall a cab robbery. Vanderhoef: In our community I don't know of them either. Atkins: I'm not passing judgement on the plexiglass, but when there's a cab robbery I want to know about it. Vanderhoef: No, I'm just. Correia: I'd hope they report it. Atkins: Yeah. So do I. Bailey: Well, and see, I'm more Wilburn: Well, there's, and some of them may not have reported it. There was a piece on the government channel that someone had submitted, P A TV, where they rode along, interviewed some of the local cabbies and one of them was talking about, I think the cabdriver came out on the top end ofthwarting the robbery attempt, but This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _,_,__._._.,______~.. ___ _....._.._.___..._.'.M_._.~_.__.~__.__.._.,__--.___'_______ - ~--------_.- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 28 Correia: Karr: Correia: Champion: Karr: Correia: Karr: Correia: Champion: Karr: Champion: Karr: Champion: Karr: Champion: Karr: I suspect that those type of altercations occur and just don't get reported. Amy, you had some questions? This, the proposed ordinance, and thank you for the Cedar Rapids ordinance, I thought that was very helpful. This proposed ordinance doesn't address limousine service. Do we have a separate limousine service? We, we have not licensed limousine services in Iowa City. Oh, ok. I was looking through this ordinance here. We,just to clarify, we term limousine charter transportation in our code. Other cities do regulate limousines Cedar Rapids did, I know that. Cedar Rapids does, we do not. Some cities regulate airport shuttles. Cedar Rapids does not, we do. So there's some similar. We have not gotten into that. There are a number oflimos in town that we term as charter transportation, the 24 hour written contract. We certainly can, but we have not gotten into that. Right. Ok. One of the things that, a couple things stood out to me. The airport shuttle. Definition of the airport shuttle. What if they wanted to go to the Moline airport? It's very popular. We added the airport shuttle definition a few years ago in response to color scheme. And the shuttle service could not get the same color of car. No, that wasn't my question. That would not be an airport shuttle by our definition. We would have to redo the definition. We. Most of our experiences told us that the airport shuttles that run to Iowa City run back and forth to Cedar Rapids. If they're back and forth to Moline we have not gotten into that thus far. We have taxis and vehicles for hires that go back and forth, but not on a regular enough basis. Right. But this definition of a taxi, then, or, well, taxicab. No. I lost my place now. But it says it, it doesn't mention the airport, but then going to the airport. That's correct, it does not. Ok. The only thing we exempted airport shuttle from all of our requirements is for color scheme only. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _._----,-~---"._--~_._-"--_.~~._-_._-_.__.._---_.__._.--.---------.--- --.---.-....-....--....--.----- ------.-----.-- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 29 Champion: Ok, ok. Karr: So the transportation is covered as a vehicle for hire. Wilburn: You had a question? Go ahead. Correia: Ah, so, you proposed, well we have a proposal with a three car minimum, two cars in operation at all times, and I noticed the Cedar Rapids ordinance has a minimum of two cars with one on duty at all times. I just wondered about, since Cedar Rapids is larger. Wilburn: I thought it was three with two. Correia: That's what ours says. Cedar Rapids is minimum of two and one. So I'm just wondering, our population is less, there's more. When I first looked at it [ wondered if it was high and then when I read through Cedar Rapids and saw that they had lower. Wilburn: I would suspect that that was put in based on conversations that the Council had had themselves. I heard numbers of three, at a minimum of three, banter back and forth, that's my recollection. Karr: That's exactly right. I looked at the transcription from last time and used those numbers. It certainly can be any number that Council wishes it to be, or not at all, but that's what I used it from. Correia: Ok. Vanderhoef: But then, you're right that if you say two and one at all times, it allows that sleep time and. Correia: Right, well [mean, [just, I'd like to Karr: I wanted to also note that Cedar Rapids runs, requires an operation 24/7 and I'm not, so that's a very different issue as well. Correia: Yeah, and [ wouldn't have thought that Karr: And a local office and there were several other requirements that Cedar Rapids had that I didn't include. Cause I didn't, from the previous discussion, didn't garnish any interest on Council to get into that. Bailey: (can't hear) Sundays as well. I mean, that's something we're not doing. Wilburn: Sorry, one person (can't hear) Elliott: My interest would be in the Council setting a time. I don't know whether 24/7 is reasonable and practical, but I think some, some guaranteed time when a phone will be guaranteed to be answered and a ride is guaranteed to be available. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. . _.._-_._--_.__.__..._----~.__._..._----,._,._.------_..--------..---,-,--..----.- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 30 Correia: O'Donnell: Bailey: O'Donnell: Karr Elliott: Bailey: O'Donnell: Karr: Wilburn: Correia: Karr: Correia: Karr: Correia: Whether that's 24/7 or Monday through Saturday Sam to 2am, whatever, that, 1 don't know what's practical and reasonable. And I'm willing to rethink my position from before on the 24/7 if it's the two car minimum, one car at all times. Especially thinking about when the public transit folks were presenting. They had called a bunch of different businesses, what were there hours of operation, industrial. There are plenty of businesses that have shifts that end at 2am or at least 2 or something that, and hours outside. You want people to be able to access a taxi at 2am. You know, how else, in terms of that being that public service? You know, the 24/7 is great. I think we now have 17 different cab companies, and I think you should be open the hours you post, whether they're posted in the phonebook or at the Union or wherever you post them. But I really don't, I don't know that the 24/7 is something that we should be setting. And this proposed ordinance doesn't set any times, so. That's correct. The proposed ordinance has blanks in there for that provision. It proposes that we do set times. Right. Yeah. It allows you, I wanted, I don't know if it proposes that you set the time, it allows you to note that I have not set the times. So if you want to set the times you fill in the blank. If not, we take out the clause. I did not recall from the last discussion, looking at the transcription, that there was consensus on that. No. There wasn't. Can you explain what, I'm confused about what the changes were regarding the color schemes. Ok. What I did is I deleted the requirement for a color scheme, so basically, there is no requirement in the proposed ordinance for a color scheme whatsoever. So they have to have lettering, they must have a bubble, they must have a taxi meter. You're saying a bubble, you mean the thing on the top? The top, mm hmm. The dome light, dome light, bubble, whatever. So that again, provisions of that, this is something if, if a majority of you wish to put back in color scheme we certainly can. That's what we have now. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _____..._______.____._.....___'.____..__...'_______._._"W'_'. __ ___._._,_~._._.,._....______.____~_._~,_~__~._.______~__.....-.--~.---- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 31 Karr: We, we, that's what we have right now. Bailey: So that would be completely a market decision by a cab company? Karr: Absolutely. Up to the business. But it would not be an identifier. Bailey: So would probably have a black and gold scheme, ah Karr: We're not going to make anybody repaint. O'Donnell: (can't hear) clearly identifies things. Elliott: I like the idea of a bubble on top, but I like the idea of it being a common bubble. You can't take an old round light and put it on. I would like for them all to be this, but I would like to have that common bubble on the top. I would like to see how much it would cost them to put in a meter. I don't know whether we're talking about a whole lot of money or not much. It seems to me it's a significant expenditure. Bailey: I think the meter is more important than the bubble, though I like the bubble, just because of fairness and rates. Elliott: Well, Bailey: I want to be able to O'Donnell: They can post a rate card, though. Elliott: Well, it adds a little Bailey: But how do I know they went a mile? 1 can't see the odometer. I think the meter is a part of, that's Vanderhoef: That's professional, and we're. Correia: I don't know what you expect in a cab, but Champion: I don't know, I think. I don't know if a meter. The town is so small. Bailey: You know that, but if you were a visitor or somebody new here you wouldn't necessarily know that. You also wouldn't necessarily know the route. O'Donnell: I think you'd get a clue though if you were going out to Coralville and you ended up 56 miles. Correia: I do think there's an opportunity for some (can't hear) to happen. Champion: I think there's other ways - you could do like Washington D.C. does it, zones. Correia: Yeah, D.C., we seem very small for zones. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 32 Bailey: No, I think we're small, too small for zones. Champion: Too small for zones. Bailey: Large enough for meters. Correia: Right. Champion: You go to Coralville it's $100.00. Bailey: It's $1.00. Champion: A dollar. Elliott: With a meter in the City, I was always concerned that I found out the route to go and the approximate distance before, because they can run you all around town with the meter. Vanderhoef: Absolutely, they can. Correia: Oh, yeah. Elliott: So I want to be able to say wait a minute, we're supposed to be on State Street. Bailey: We don't have a State Street. Champion: There should be some way, people need to know approximately how much they're going to be charged and how far they're going. I don't object to having a meter, I'm just. Bailey: Well, it's just so nice if you're splitting the cab ride with somebody that you get a sense about how much, it's just nice. Champion: I wish they would just start out the meter higher. Bailey: Yeah, yeah there is a base rate. O'Donnell: Do we have any idea how much the meters cost? Elliott: That's my concern. Are we talking about a significant cost or not, and I'd certainly like to know. Karr: Is there a majority who want that information? Wilburn: Someone had said $350.00. Champion: About $350.00. Correia: How much? $350.00. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 33 Elliott: $350.00. That just, a bird just kind of flew over and dropped that message. Bailey: You just had ESP - a light bulb. Vanderhoef: I'm in favor of doing a meter for sure. Karr: I just, wanted to clarify one thing. I noticed that the company, the ordinances of other cities I looked at, I don't recall right now any other city that required a meter that didn't establish the rates. Champion: Right. Correia: Oh. Vanderhoef: And that, I think, uniform rate is the fair thing to do for every business here. Karr: Because that's a whole new arena that is not in this ordinance and I did not at all, but I think that's one thing and that's the common denominator in many of them, is that all of the meters were set then at the preapproved city rate. O'Donnell: Do we set Karr: Not all cab companies' meters were set differently to their rate. O'Donnell: Do we set the rates when the gas is $2.00? Karr: We do not set the rates at all? O'Donnell: But I mean, if we get into that, do we set it at $2.00 when the gas is $3.00. Bailey: What's the downside of having a meter but not setting rates? I mean, there would be competitive rates. I mean, I guess you could change it. Wilburn: There'd be, there'd be competition. Karr: You'd have to set. Wilburn: But the plus side is that the future Council would not even have to get into that. Bailey: Setting rates by resolution. Elliott: If we were to set rates, I think it would have to include a percentage above gas prices or something, because prices can double overnight. Wilburn: Because that's so fluid, that's why my preference would be Elliott: Yes. Bailey: We haven't This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. -~---,-~,'---,"-'~----"-----'-'- -,----.--.---. .._----~-~,.._-,--"- -- - -...----.--.... -- -~--~~--- September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 34 (all talk - can't hear) Wilburn: Bailey: Karr: Bailey: O'Donnell: Karr: Wilburn: Bailey: O'Donnell: Champion: Bailey: Karr: Bailey: Karr: Elliott: Karr: Elliott: Correia: I'm sorry. There are just too many conversations. Let me finish and then you can go, Regenia. That's why my preference would be for the City just to stay out of the setting of the rates, but I do think there's that element offairness and awareness for the customer. That would be something that we would be trying to encourage and assure through doing this. Go ahead, Regenia. So that when you have a meter then and rates are set, then your meter is programmed to those rates. So every company would get their meter and program their rates in, and then the meter would be inspected or vice versa? It's locked and inspected. Right. So they would have to program their rates in and the meter would have to be locked and indicate that it's been inspected. Do we check that? Is that how that works? We make that part of our inspection. The police do that anyway. A course that they have them drive. I'm really not in favor of the meters at all, so. The letter that was in our packet of stuff tonight said a lot of times there's double passengers. That happens in cities too, like when you're coming home from the airport. I don't know how they handle that. We take van loads, I mean, we use the cabs a lot, just when we're going to dinner parties and such, and there's a clear rate for sharing, per passenger, in advance, and you can see it on the meter. I mean it's all. Most of them have it on their rate cards. Yeah, it's all, it's just like it is in the City. We also have a requirement that at any time a rider can request an estimate of what the fare is going to be before they get in. Do meters now register both times and miles? We don't have meters right now. No, no - for taxis. Is there the capability for meters to do that, you're saying? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 35 Elliott: Bailey: Champion: Karr: Champion: Bailey: Karr: Bailey: Champion: Bailey: Karr: Wilburn: Karr: Wilburn: Karr: Wilburn: Bailey: Yes. I think whether a taxi ride from an Iowa football game might take an hour- is that the same as a taxi ride during an off night that might take 10 minutes. They have, I think they have They have waiting times. My, again, then that's a waiting time issue. Yeah. But the meter shows. The meter is mileage. Mileage and rate. But it also has waiting time on it. Well you punch that in, right. It's a separate button, yes. I guess I would just, in an effort to see us say yeah or nay in terms of putting this forward, if I go back to how this came up, and correct me if I'm wrong. I mean clearly there's nothing in here that other cities and nearby cities don't do, so it's just a question of what do we wish to see for available for the public in terms of safety and professional operation were the two concerns that I had heard addressed. So whether or not, I guess whether or not you feel that, you know, all cab companies are going to agree to a particular item here. I would suggest probably not, because we're talking about regulating in a similar fashion to some of the, you know, liquor licenses with bars. So I guess, you know, I would hope that we'd look at if you feel that safety and professionalism is something that we want to have available and ensure some things for the public, I would suggest that we go forward with this. But, I'm trying to remember, is it 3 that we need to have to put it on? 3 puts it out on work session. Work session or an agenda? Either one. Ok. Yeah. All right. Do we anticipate that Coralville will, would then have similar standards so this will be? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 36 Karr: Bailey: Karr: Elliott: Karr: Elliott: Wilburn: Karr: Elliott: Correia: Champion: Elliott: Correia: Elliott: Karr: Champion: Elliott: Correia: Ah, Coralville, I've talke\l to Coralville, they're very interested, I'm going to call them tomorrow after there's some direction. We're looking at potentially a reciprocity agreement, something similar to what Marion does. Ok. Cause it sort of depends on where we end up and where they want to end up, but yes, there's interest. Yeah, there are certainly people who might take a Cedar Rapids taxi from the airport to Iowa City. We do not regulate points of, ifthey come into town it's where they pickup, and so therefore, anybody coming into town would not have the same regulations. And they would not be eligible to pickup in town. That's correct. That's correct. Ok. I would certainly be interested in putting this on a work agenda, but I would also like to have either staff or Council and Staff representatives to talk with some taxi owners before we make any What are we putting on a work session agenda? This is a work session. This is a work session. Further, I don't want to adopt this right now. Oh. I think there's further discussion that needs to take place. I'd like to hear from the taxicab owners. I guess if I could suggest, as much information and direction as I can get from Council on what you're interested in would focus and help my discussion with the cab companies. If! knew that there was a majority of you interested in one thing or another, it would really help that discussion a little bit. And secondly, timing is a little bit of a factor. If we're gonna make some changes that are considered substantial, I'd like to give the companies as much notice as I can, and we typically send the renewal of their information out in January, so. I think we're all in favor of bubbles. I don't know where You've heard what we've talked about Is that on the list of things? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 37 Wilburn: Which list are you? Vanderhoef: Let's go down this list and see ifthere's at least 4 that are interested in all ten of those, one by one. Wilburn: Ok. Karr: You're looking at the September 13th memo that was in your packet, lP-3. Ok. Wilburn: Yeah. Minimum established. Champion: Ross, I'm sorry, I really need to have you speak up. I'm sorry. Wilburn: Ok. Correia: Maybe you should switch spots so you're listening. Bailey: Connie, we're going down that list right there, ok, so you. Champion: Oh, ok. Wilburn: Starting with #1, establishing the minimum of 3 vehicles per company. Are there 3 that? Elliott: Let's Correia: I'd be Elliott: I'm flexible, with you, 3 and 2, 2 and I. Correia: I'd be willing to do 2 and I. Elliott: Yeah. Vanderhoef: I' lllook at 2 and I. O'Donnell: I could look at 2 and I. Bailey: I'd look at 2 and I if we look at hours, when we look at hours. To me those are. Elliott: Mmm hmm. Correia: I'm willing to look at hours. Wilburn: Ok. So. Yes for #1. Correia: For 2 and I. Wilburn: For, yeah, I'm talking about #1. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 38 Correia: Right. Not the way it's written. Wilburn: Yeah. Urn. #2, establishes a minimum of3 drivers per company. Vanderhoef: So take that down to 2. O'Donnell: Change that to 2. Wilburn: It would be 2. Ok. #3, requires a dome bubble light on the roof for each vehicle. Elliott: Right. O'Donnell: Yes. Champion: Yes. But I do, I do think, I do agree (can't hear) Correia: You want medication? Elliott: It's Jehosophat. Champion: They should be the same. Correia: Uniform bubble lights. Yes. Elliott: Uniform was the word I was looking for. Correia: I know. (all talk - can't hear) Bailey: So taxis, you can do the London taxi bubble. You see what I'm saying? You couldn't configure them to your style of car. Wilburn: I personally just think as long as it has the dome, that's the identifier, that's for the public. Bailey: Yeah, I'm fine. O'Donnell: I'm in favor. Bailey: Yeah, just cause if something is really cute. Karr: Ok. So there is a majority who do not want it uniform. Just a light.. Bailey: A dome. Wilburn: I think that's (can't hear) Bailey: If they want to do something stylistic. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 39 Vanderhoef: Permanent mount. Karr: Oh yeah, permanently mounted. Bailey: Yeah, permanent. Correia: With taxi on it. Wilburn: #5 requires 2 inspections a year per vehicle. Bailey: Wait, you skipped. O'Donnell: There's more. Wilburn: I'm sorry. Requires installation of a taxi meter per charges. V anderhoef: Yes. Bailey: Yes. Correia: Yes. Elliott: Interested in that. Wilburn: That's 4,5. Ok. Now #5. Requires 2 inspections per year for each vehicle. O'Donnell: Yes. Bailey: Yes. Wilburn: Yes. And I think that also included the option for at any time, law enforcement can, require that. #6 requires no smoking by drivers and passengers. Elliott: Can we do that? Bailey: Yes. Wilburn: Yes. O'Donnell: I don't know how we can do that. Elliott: We can't with taverns, bars. Karr: We don't license taverns or bars. Champion: We can. O'Donnell: We can't be any more strict than they are at the State level. Champion: We don't license bars. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 40 O'Donnell: You know, it seems like every opportunity, every time we get an opportunity to get any change, we get a chance to add some of our own taste to it and I really think that that's a business decision. Wilburn: Sarah? Holecek: I think you can legally do it should you choose to do so. It doesn't run, it doesn't run afoul of Chapter 123 alcohol license provisions for smoking. Elliott: I, I guess I kind of agree with Mike, that would be an opportunity for a cab to put big no smoking signs or smoke-free taxis. O'Donnell: I think if we're gonna do that we should have dress codes. Bailey: Well, Cedar Rapids does have a dress code. O'Donnell: They have a dress code. Bailey: That's not outlandish. O'Donnell: I think it is. Correia: I'm interested in non, no-smoking. Champion: I think they should be non-smoking. Wilburn: And I, that's 4. O'Donnell: Yep. Wilburn: Spells out exterior and interior standard for vehicles. Bailey: Yes. Vanderhoef: Yes. Wilburn: Yes. Elliott: One of those was it has a steering wheel, I noticed, and I thought, yeah, that's kind of important. Bailey: I think that's good. Vanderhoef: Cool. Wilburn: #8, requires driver badge including company name and non-transferable. O'Donnell: Yes. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 41 Elliott: Yes. Bailey: Yes. Vanderhoef: Yes. Wilburn: That gets at the safety, I think. #9, deletes color scheme. Elliott: You bet. Bailey: Yes. Champion: Wait a minute, what do you mean delete the color scheme? Correia: Deletes it? Wilburn: Deletes color scheme. Correia: That there's no requirement. Bailey: We don't mandate it. Wilburn: No requirement. Bailey: It's a market decision. Champion: Oh, ok. O'Donnell: Just as long as they're all yellow. Yes. (laughter) Wilburn: So, yes. Renames 2 taxicabs. Bailey: Sure. Vanderhoef: Yes. And one more then, I would add #11, is hours of operation. Karr: Well, what would you like me to put into it? The language is there, what would you like to suggest. O'Donnell: Open posted hours. Bailey: 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, min. minimal. Because then you would encompass some portion of the day. Vanderhoef: 18. Karr: Remember, going back you're requiring one vehicle to be on at all times and only 2 drivers per company, so bear that in mind when you're dividing it out. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 42 Vanderhoef: But 18, the 6am to 2am. Correia: I guess what I was thinking one driver at all times would relate to their hours of operation. I mean. Karr: Requires one car at all times and 2 drivers per company. Elliott: At all times that, if we don't have a 24/7 they don't have to have it 24/7 then. That would be dictated by our required hours of operation. Bailey: 1 would really love to see 24/7 if we've got two other people who are interested or three other people. Vanderhoef: I would look at 18. Champion: I'm not sure they need to be available at 4am, but maybe they do. But I don't want to see it from noon to 2am because a lot of people need a cab in the morning. Vanderhoef: That's it. O'Donnell: So you're gonna have. Vanderhoef: So 18 hours would cover. O'Donnell: You're gonna have 17 companies open Karr: Nope. O'Donnell: 24/7, seven days a week. Bailey: I would suspect we won't have 17 companies. O'Donnell: And there's half a dozen rides on a Sunday. Does that seem? Correia:Oh, I bet there's more than half a dozen rides on a Sunday. Bailey: We have no transit on Sundays, and that's something that I want to make sure it's covered. O'Donnell: Does that seem reasonable? Bailey: The other morning I was looking at how many cabs were out and about and there were, I saw at least 3, maybe 4 different companies out in the morning, and I'm assuming that they weren't just driving around. Champion: Right. Bailey: I mean, so I think there's. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 43 O'Donnell: So there were 13 companies that weren't out driving around. Bailey: Right. O'Donnell: And that's exactly what I'm saying - you. Bailey: Some of those companies are owned by the same person. They're just a company because of the color scheme issue. O'Donnell: That's true, that's true. Bailey: I'm suspecting that we don't really have 17 cab company owners. Champion: I think we need to have hours of operation. O'Donnell: Posted hours of operation, exactly. Vanderhoef: Marian, I'd like, in discussion, I'd like to know about any information that the cab drivers would like to share with us on the schedule, how many rides on Sunday, for instance, whether it's a heavy day, not a heavy day. And anything that they see that would enhance cab rides in our community. Correia: I think we certainly could solicit comments from cab, current licensed cab compames. Karr: The plan all along was once you decided something, that I would send it to them well ahead of your vote, but it would be premature, until we had some direction from you what you were thinking. Bailey: So what are other people thinking for hours? I mean, I just threw out 12 for a starting point. I don't, I was just thinking 24/7. Vanderhoef: I'm thinking 18 hours. Elliott: I'mjust thinking there are some people who need it for work and so I don't know what those time changes are, but something like Sam to 2am, somewhere around in there. And there might be some cabs who, you know, we might be able to divide that up among companies, if they would say, our company wiII do 12 hours this time and this company will - I just think, so the people of Iowa City have access, guaranteed access to cabs that they're usually needed. Karr: I don't think we can, that you want to get into trying to assign companies shifts like the way our companies come and go. Elliott: Yeah, that's what I said, but however, that's why I think it's important that we talk to taxi cab operators, owner-operators. Bailey: So we have to take them something to respond to rather than asking, so let's do 24/7 This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 44 Elliott: Right. 24/7 and go from there. O'Donnell: Why don't we ask them a question? Why don't we say how many of you are open 24/7? How many of you are taking rides 24/7? Elliott: Or just respond to a question of 24/7. Bailey: Yeab I, I let's go. Correia: If we do 24/7 that would be fine, and that could. Champion: Yeab, you're right. Just put it down and see what happens. Bailey: Right. Because Marian's gonna talk to them; if she brings back information that that's completely unfeasible. Karr: And is there any interest on business phone availability? Champion: Yes. Bailey: Yes. V anderhoef: Yes. Elliott: It has to be. Karr: Is that a 24/7 as well? Bailey: Yes. O'Donnell: How, how do you control that? Do you have an answering machine? Bailey: How do we control any of our ordinances? O'Donnell: How do you control a telephone that's set up to an answering machine? We will get back to you when we're not busy. Determine when they're not busy. Elliott: Well Wilburn: Dale, how was it phrased again in the cable? Helling: How is the? Elliott: Telephone access. Wilburn: Telephone access responding. How is it phrased in cable? I'm trying to remember. Sorry to put you on the spot here. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. -,-~---~~--_._~--~--,--_..__._--_.._..-----_.._._. - .._._-_.."-_._---_._~-~'- "., ._..,--'~'---'-- - -----_.._.'.._._--~-_..--_._._----_._---_.__._,..._'- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 45 Helling: Wilburn: Bailey: Elliott: Yeah, I really, I can't tell you exactly how it's phrased, because some of that is FCC rules on customer service. I can get you that, but I don't, I can't That's all right then. I'll just, I'll look here. Well, if we're starting with open 24/7, it would follow that there's a phone 24/7. We can't really, we can't go anywhere else with that as a start. And if they have the phone simply off the hook and it just rings busy, the same thing happens when the cable company, you get a complaint with the cable company. (cut off - end of tape) Karr: Bailey: Correia: Karr: Bailey: Karr: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Karr: Wilburn: Elliott: Karr: We had a procedure established that they contact the City Clerk's office and requested it in writing, and then in talking to our police chief and as I understand talking to our City Attorney's office as well, that procedure is being looked at, and at the present time we're now referring all complaints over to the police department to make that determination of follow-up and review. And then talking with our City Attorney's office, and we may be back in touch with you on procedures to possibly clarify simple misdemeanors rather than municipal infraction type of charges. And those types of things are being looked at right now. So when we do have the procedure, will that also be posted in the cabs? That's what I'm wondering. How will people know? The complaint procedure? Yeah. We certainly could do that. I think we should. Yeah, it should be posted, right, if you have a complaint, contact We license, we should Ok. Yeah. Got enough Marian? Yeah. I think you've made very few changes to the proposed ordinance, so I'll just make the changes that you've noted tonight and get that information out, asking for additional information from our companies. See if! can schedule a meeting with them and get back to you, potentially for your next meeting, This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. -- ------..--..-- -------_._-,..~..".._---,._.~_..._--_._-----_._-_._-~-~--,----_._- --,,--------. ..'. - .~_._---_._._,._,,,._--_.,.._--_._-_.._-_._'~._-- ---_._--- ...-.-.--.,- September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 46 Wilburn: Elliott: Karr: Wilburn: Karr: Wilburn: Correia: Bailey: because I am concerned if there's going to be substantial changes that we would give the companies as much time as possible. Right. Absolutely. To talk to you and to talk and what resources they need to have done. And then, it is an ordinance, so it will take 3, 3 readings. It will take 3. Ok. Thank you. Thanks, Marian. Thanks. Shelter House Overflow Wilburn: Shelter House overflow. Atkins: Elliott: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Atkins: Correia: To give you an update, we intend this year, we being the fire department, intend to interpret the code substantially as we have done in the past. Pardon me, Steve? Louder. We will continue to interpret the fire code as we have in the past with respect to emergency overflow as they are with our churches. A couple things, Andy has some concerns about the number of fire watch people. We think that's resolvable, I don't believe that will be a major issue. One of his bigger concerns is that if this continues, where we're going to have to do this every year, we should write into the code something specific that deals with the churches and the use of the church, in this case as emergency housing, housing project. One of our concerns is that we have a fire code, other communities adopt the same fire code, we interpret it differently than they do. I don't believe that's, that's a problem, it just looks a little strange, and Andy said you need to write a specific code, and we can do that. Why don't we So, ljust have, when you were saying. You were saying we're going to go back to what we originally did or? We can go back, no, we're going to continue to do what we were doing No, but at the end of the season last year, so we're going with that adjusted. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18,2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 47 Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Atkins: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Atkins: Correia: Champion: Correia: Bailey: Atkins: Champion: Correia: Atkins: Correia: Champion: Bailey: Correia: Atkins: Champion: Bailey: Mmm hmm. Can you state what that is? What that is. The 125. Pardon me? The 125 square feet per person, yeah. So what would be in That is not changed. That's what we did, and that's what we'll continue to do. That was what the adjustment that we made last year, so that's what continues, Ok, cause that's what It was called something else, it was called. Because before it was 200. Right. Yeah. Right. Or something. And now it's a hundred and 125. 125. Ok. Well, we should be thinking about writing some kind of ordinance. I agree. I think so. I think we should do it this year. I'll get started on that. Ifwe have a new homeless shelter or new Shelter House, it's not gonna house all our homeless people. Right. And I think, yeah, that's exactly right, and we don't want people outside in the winter, and we won't have the ability to provide for them, so I think writing something makes a lot of sense. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. - ----_._._._._._-~~- . ._--"~~-_.~~_._--_.._----_._._---~.._---_.- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 48 Atkins: Get started on that. Champion: The churches will continue, they'll have a thing to work on rather than coming to us all the time, because the new shelter is not even big enough to handle all the. Bailey: Well, even if it's, construction takes awhile, so we're still a long ways out. Champion: A long ways out. Atkins: We'll, I'll prepare a letter to folks so they know what we're up to. Yeah. Bailey: Ok. Vanderhoef: Would this be also appropriate to put into this the same thing would happen or could be used in emergency of other kinds? Bailey: Like natural disasters? Vanderhoef: National disaster, the tornadoes, the bus crash or train crash in the City and. Atkins: Yeah. Bailey: Yeah. Atkins: During emergency purposes, I never expected we would turn folks away. I mean, it would be a little Vanderhoef: No, could we acknowledge it in the same ordinance Atkins; Yeah, sure. Vanderhoef; That this will apply for. Atkins: Let me talk to Andy and Roger. Correia; But do you think, when Red Cross, I think, the Homeless Overflow Group looked into what the Red Cross uses for, when their, which is different, so I wonder if in situations when there is a natural disaster and the Red Cross is providing the shelter O'Donnell: (can't hear) Correia: Well I think they have different regulations that they use and it goes O'Donnell: Does this, Steve, am I right in, does this require 200 square feet per person? Atkins: No, 125. Correia: 125. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. - -_._-,_._.__._--".,._,._..-._--,-_...._-_._----~----------......------.---.------------.-.---.... ----_._----- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 49 O'Donnell: Atkins: O'Donnell: Holocek: Elliott: Bailey: Atkins: Al!enda Items Wilburn: O'Donnell: Bailey: I mean. 125. 125. It was 200 prior to the interpretation. I believe that the Uniform Fire Code has escape hatches, if you will, for conditions of natural disaster or times of panic, things like that. You know, how you've heard them listed before. We'll look at that and get back to you. But the eased regulations were much more reasonable, I thought then, because when you consider the alternative, if you don't have, the alternative is, I mean, no regulations. Yes. We're ok. We'll get you something. I think we're ok on this. Great. Agenda items. Not much of an agenda. Yeah. Consent Calendar 3e(2) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE OFFICIAL FINANCIAL REPORT FOR CITY STREETS AND PARKING FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 2006 Correia: I, I had a question on Item 3e(I). It's the financial report for city streets and parking. Atkins: Oh, ok. Correia: Ijust had a question. Elliott: Is this on the consent calendar? Atkins: Yeah. Vanderhoef: Yeah. Under resolutions. Correia: Oh, they're not numbered, but, on the 4th page, when it's talking about the miscellaneous revenues it has, I'm just asking about, to explain this - "general fund transfer if 1.5 million, and there's a ending balance of 5 million in this fund. This represents.only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18,2006. September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 50 I'm just wondering if this, we need to transfer, if that is a transfer of general fund dollars and Atkins: It could be an accounting, ah, process. I have the notion that this has to do with our Vanderhoef: Carryover. Atkins: It's either a carryover and/or it has to do with the benefits paid, which is a separate levy within the general fund. I will get you an answer, I'll get you Correia: Vh huh. Oh. Ok. Because I'm just looking at, thinking if we don't need to transfer general fund revenue that could. Atkins: On the surface, and I can assure you that's the general operating policies, we wouldn't do that. I'm assuming this is an obligation, that we have to do something. We'll confirm that for you. Correia: Ok. Elliott: And stay right Correia: So I guess then, if it is a oblig, if it's some, a benefit levied, that, doesn't Atkins: Sometimes it has to be receded into the general fund from one levy and then out of the general fund. Correia: Oh, sure sure sure, but I mean, if we don't need to have that levy because we have an ending balance of 5 million, then would we not Atkins: Then we wouldn't have it. Correia: We wouldn't have to have the levy and then that could be a property tax relief. Atkins: That's correct. Correia: Ok. Consent Calendar 3e(2) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST TO A SUBORDINATION AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HILLS BANK AND TRUST COMPANY, IOWA CITY, IOWA FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1164 HOTZ AVENUE, IOWA CITY, IOWA. Elliott: Stay right on that page. The next item, 3e(2) is, it involves Iowa State Bank, Hills Bank Atkins: Oh, e(2), oh I'm sorry. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18,2006. N........_..____..__._____.___.' - ---.---~-----.----,..----~--.--,----------.-.-+--------.--..-----......,~--~---.---._---.-.- ._._-_._~---- .._.__.._.~_.,-. September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 51 Correia: I thought he was talking about the same page as this. Atkins: Couldn't find it. Ok. Elliott: Two banks and the City. What's? It says Iowa State requested it, but it involves Hills Bank. Atkins: Ok. We just had two banks participating in the financing. Help me out - what's your question, Bob? Elliott: I, I just thought it was interesting that this is something that involves Hills Bank and the city of Iowa City, but it's something that Iowa State Bank has requested. So how, how? Atkins: My gut reaction is they may have closed out a loan with one bank and gone to another bank. Elliott: Ok, so just simple, ok. Atkins: I'll check. I'm assuming it's very routine. Elliott: Ok. Wilburn: Other agenda items? Correia: The, ah, items. V anderhoef: Yes. Bailey: Oh, go ahead. Correspondence 3f(7) John Nieland: Plasma arc technology Vanderhoef: Ok. Ah, under correspondence, the letter from John Nieland, Mayor of Marion, I really don't know much about this plasma arc technology, and I'd be interested in information. I have no idea whether it's something Atkins: I know what I saw. Yeah. I've seen it advertised, I saw some, Discovery Channel did it once or something. Vanderhoef: I've heard just little bits and pieces from people out, so I think just as an information item for Council Atkins: That's my knowledge. If we all nose around we can find something. Bailey: Yeah. Doesn't Rick know something about it, or something? Atkins: Ok. Vanderhoef: Someone present something to us. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ......_._.--~----,----~---~----,. _..,._._---~----------,~-_._._._. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 52 Atkins: I think plasma arc technology is a nice word for bnming garbage. V anderhoef: Yes, it is. Correia: Oh, it is? Bailey: In a high-tech way. Atkins: In a high-tech way. Vanderhoef: Plasma arc in a high-tech way. Bailey: In a 21" centnry bnming garbage way. Elliott: Yes. Wilburn: 1 thought 1 saw some information that it may not be as promising, but mixed. O'Donnell: Yeah. Vanderhoef: Well, I've heard both, mixed. Atkins: Ifwe can find something we'll get it for you. Bailey: 10 minutes from Rick. Elliott: It appears to me that it said the jnry is still out, perhaps - at least perhaps. Wilbnm: Amy, you had some - I'm sorry, were you done, Dee? Vanderhoef: Ah, go ahead, Amy. I'll. Item 6. AMENDING THE FY~007 OPERATING BUDGET Correia: Item 6, the budget amendment. When it says that detail, supporting documentation is included, that the supporting docnmentation is just that one page? I was just wondering if there's more, you kuow, explanation about some of the? Karr: Yes, there's more in my office, I've got it on my counter, yep. Correia: Ok. Ok. Atkins: Oh, I'm sorry. We make that available, in excruciating detail. Correia: How long is it? Champion: More than you ever want to read. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ._-------~-----"~-~.-.-._-_._-,.._._,_._-~'-~--'--~--~._-~----~--_._-~._-- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 53 Bailey: The whole thing. Correia: So there isn't a way in, you know, in doing the budget, that we could get short descriptions of each line? That's not possible? Atkins: No. It's not, really can't do that. It's 14 pages long. Correia: Oh, the supporting document, oh, ok. Atkins: Ok. All right. Correia: That's not long. You said it was. Vanderhoef: Well, the whole budget. Correia: The whole budget. Atkins: Most, just so you know, this is a mid-year adjustment that we make so we can carryover spending authority. Projects begin in a fiscal year and are not finished, we need the authority to pay those projects in the following fiscal year. That's the carryover that we use. Correia: Gotcha. Atkins: And each one ofthem are reviewed individually. It's not automatic. Vanderhoef: And those miscellaneous things at this time of year, we always clean those up, what came in on June 30th. Atkins: We had a little different difficulty this year because we had to eat a good portion of the storm cleanup and a number of other things, so, Wilburn: Right. Atkins: We had a little more to, our end of they year position came out really pretty well. We did ok. Elliott: We did. V anderhoef: Yeah. I was, I was surprised. Atkins: It could have been a lot, well, we put the squeeze on right at the end. ITEM 11. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND ENGINEERING ALLIANCE, INC. TO PROVIDE ENGINEERING CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR THE U.S. HIGHWAY 6 & GILBERT STREET INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENT PROJECT. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 54 Elliott: Item, Item II. What's a geometric improvement? Vanderhoef: Oh, on the road? Elliott: Yeah. Vanderhoef: To make them line up better. Bailey: Alignment. Vanderhoef: So you go straight instead of having to do ajog. Elliott: I keep thinking of parallelograms and triangles and. Bailey: Exactly. Atkins: Yeah. That's it. That's what it is. Geometric. Geometry of the intersection. Elliott: Ok. Atkins: You were right to begin with. Wilbum: Other agenda items? Elliott: I was right? That means I was wrong again, because I was right and didn't know it. Atkins: Yes you were. IP6 of 9/14 Information Packet: E-mail from Catherine Moore: Coronet Anartments Correia: We've had some correspondence about the Coronet Apartments being sold and I know, I don't know how many units in the Coronet Apartments over on Broadway are Section 8, subsidizing, but I think it's probably a fair number. Do we know anything about that at this point, the impact? Atkins: Can find out for you. Correia: Seems like we're, have been losing some affordable units on that street, specifically. Atkins: Yes, Cedar. Correia: Cedarwood. Atkins: Cedarwood, yeah. I'll get an update on that. Vanderhoef: The time period has run out on all of those. They were all built around the same time and had all the federal funding and so now. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 55 Correia: Ah. Coronet I think has been privately owned for a little while, hasn't it, and they just? Champion: They've all been privately owned. Correia: They, but I mean, Cedarwood was a privately owned. contract. They didn't, but Coronet has been privately owned and they have been a landlord that accepts our vouchers here. Atkins: And they still may. Correia: Cedar Wood was different. Wilburn: That's correct. Correia: Yeah, yeah. Cedarwood is like Pheasant Ridge. Pheasant Ridge doesn't take subsidies, but it was a HUD Vanderhoef: Yeah, it, (can't hear) like Chicago. Correia: Yeah, but Coronet was never a HUD project that I know of. Vanderhoef: I thought there was federal dollars in it. Correia: But the tenants have rental subsidies. Some of them. I don't know how many, but I'm just, if it's quite a few, that. Wilburn: The voucher, it's the case where the voucher follows the person. Correia: Th.e person, right, right. Wilburn: And whether or not the landlord, a private landlord will accept them or not and I thought what they were getting at well, it's mixed, in that they're acknowledging that some ofthose private landlords are not accepting them anymore, but between the two emails is a mixture of whether they're blaming the City for that because of housing stuff and what is the City going to do. Correia: Oh, I don't think that the City, I don't think the City is doing anything related to that. I'm just saying if there's a big complex that is accepting vouchers and we know that there's a problem, that folks have a problem finding landlords, that they are something we should know about. Atkins: I think the theory is you still have your voucher, but we're gonna convert these units privately, and that means there's less opportunity for the Correia: To use the voucher, right, and that creates a problem. Atkins: Use the voucher. That's what the net effect is. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 56 Wilburn: And that, that carne up in conversation when, when the, you know, the big complex Cedar Wood, I mean that, that was part of that initial conversation. Correspondence 3f(10) Sam Schrup: Downtown Portable Sign Ordinance Vanderhoef: #10 on correspondence. On the portable sign ordinance. I'm not interested per se, but this was a very respectful letter. Atkins: Yeah. Vanderhoef: Written to Council, asking for possibility of putting a portable sign in front of that establishment, and the way he described it, it wouldn't be a problem, but, at the same time, we have outdoor restaurants who want to put up a portable sign every day with their menu board and all of that, that even extends further out if they can't put it by their doorway, so I'm not interested in having sandwich board signs downtown, but I think we should answer him. Champion: I don't know. We have them. Correia: That's what I was just gonna, so the sandwich boards Champion: But we should find a way to make them legal, because we have them. Bailey: We have lots of them. Champion: We have lots of them. Vanderhoef: That's what I'd like - those aren't legal. Correia: Those signs for restaurants - no, I know, but, so what I'm saying is that, if there's sort of an unfair advantage for restaurants. Is that the sort of sign that the gentleman from Discerning Eye wants? That type of portable sign? Atkins: That's what I understood. The way I read it. Correia: Ok. Vanderhoef: The sandwich board. Correia: Right. The sandwich board. It does seem like, I don't know. So the restaurant signs are on public right of way, but they're not allowed, but we're not disallowing them. Atkins: Restaurant signs, they will often put them out on the sidewalk. That's a complaint, that people fall over them, knock them over, once one starts, then there's another and another and another. That's the complaint that you get. Those restaurant signs, I'd always understood must be within the cafe boundaries. That you can show your menu, but you can not do it outside Vanderhoef: You can put it on a standard but it's up above your This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _.___,....,.,.____"___..___.____._____..'"N_'_._.___~'__...____ _ .._...__~_______,.,~_____.,.._.._.,__'__",_.'__._. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 57 Atkins: Yeah a standard. Bailey: Not an attractor, it's information. Champion: But it is a law that's not being enforced, and 1 don't know, do we want laws that aren't enforceable. Bailey: Well I think they're enforced, because I have people calling me and saying that somebody enforced it and they want the law to be changed. Atkins: Yeah. O'Donnell: That's true. Wilburn: That's true, yeah. Champion: Except the next day the sign just goes out again. Elliott: Well Ijust, I've never been a fan of sign design and all those ordinances. We've had, a church was told they had to take down a sign on a church property about bible school coming up. We spend far too much time worrying about signs, I think. Champion: Well, I do worry about signs, but, I think, I mean, our main sign ordinance I think is a good one, especially when I go to a town that doesn't have a sign ordinance. I think it makes our sign ordinance look really good. But I think sometimes we get so stuck on little details and that is simply not enforceable. I mean, when you're putting up a sign for a business, that's enforceable if it's got to be approved by the City. But when we say you can't put a sandwich board up by your restaurant and everybody's doing it, then there's something wrong with that law. Elliott: Well, a sign on a sidewalk just doesn't make sense. Champion: They're there! Bailey: No it doesn't. Wilburn: Well, we're not, unless 3 of you want to have a work session on our sign ordinance. Elliott: Nope. Wilburn: This is not Vanderhoef: No. Champion: No. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 58 Wilburn: Any other agenda items? Correia: So can we get an email to him saying Council's not interested? Atkins: I'll get a letter out.1t's been prepared, I just Vanderhoef: And step up enforcement. Correia: Stepped up enforcement. Champion: Well, I'd be careful about what I'm enforcing. (laughter) Bailey: Wilburn: ITEM 10. Correia: Atkins: Correia: Atkins: Correia: Bailey: Atkins: Correia: Atkins: Correia: Atkins: Correia: What do you know? Other agenda items. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND IOWA VALLEY HABITAT FOR HUMANITY. So item 10, the loan for Habitat? Yes. Is that, I was wondering, could we give them a grant? We could. And is that? No. Couldn't figure out why. Talked about it. Well they're, they're going to be providing benefit with overseeing hours with the Furniture Project, aren't they? And they're also keeping items out of the landfill. Oh, there's more, they want much more money than this. This is just the basics. And the reason that we recommended the loan agreement was one, they didn't squawk about it and they're going to put improvements into the property. Once they leave we accrue the benefit of those improvements. They're putting their own money into improvements? No, we're financing, they're going to pay us back. Oh, ok. Say again. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. --,._._----,---_.~--~-~._._",.'"--,-_.-'---_.._-_....~--.... September IS, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 59 Atkins: They will pay us back. Correia: But then when they leave we have the benefits of those. Atkins: Maybe. May have to (can't hear) em out. Bailey: But they get to use it while they're there. Correia: No, I understand that. But there's a public good in this project in that they're keeping items out of the landfill and they. Atkins: It's them. Correia: Say again? I know - ok. Champion: We're providing a public good by providing them a place to do that, too. Bailey: We've provided quite a lot to Habitat. Champion: A lot. Vanderhoef: And they've gotten quite a few grants through Elliott: And when they pay, when they pay the money back we can use if for more public good. Wilburn: Any other Correia: Are these funds landfill funds? Atkins: Yes. Council Time Wilburn: Any other agenda items? Council Time? Correia: I had a call yesterday, actually from a Dr reporter, about Burlington Street. I guess somebody fell again? Bailey: Jumped. Wilburn: They jumped. Correia: Well, ok. Through the? Atkins: They jumped the bridges? Wilburn: Tried to. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September IS, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 60 Atkins: Correia: Bailey: Atkins: Elliott: Correia: Atkins: Champion: Correia: Baeth: Correia: O'Donnell: Correia: Atkins: Elliott: Correia: Atkins: Bailey: Champion: Elliott: Champion: Bailey: Tried to jump and Tried to jump and then they fell and they were trying to They weren't jumping in. That's two. Second one. Right, so that's two in the last couple of Yeah. We can't stop people doing stupid things. No, well. That's true. Yes, but I'm wondering, is there any screening we can put on there? Apparently we're going to have to. Yeali, because we've been. They've been lucky, the people that have fallen attempting to jump, making a bad decision, that they haven't died. It's the first time in a couple years. It seems every now and then. No. Two in the last couple of months. Pretty regular basis. We've had a couple in the last few months and then we'll go through a period and not have any. I can find out if there' s anything we can do. Interesting thing about, we the City own the bridge on the south; lOOT owns the bridge on the north. So you jump from State territory to local territory when you try to leap across. That's what they were trying to do, absolutely. And if you put something in the middle to save this person who's dumb enough to try and jump it Then even more will try. It breaks, are you liable because he does fall into the river? Absolutely. Sure. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 61 Holecek: (laughter) Bailey: Elliott: Wilburn: (laughter) Atkins: Wilburn: Bailey: Atkins: Wilburn: Atkins: Bailey: Elliott: Atkins: Elliott: Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Atkins: Elliott: Correia: I like the point that we've go, you know, the conflicting jurisdiction. I'm gonna say it's the State's fault, so. Goodjob. Good. Well, I think, kind of getting at what Connie was saying, too is that the implication in that article in the newspaper was that the City doesn't have a plan for addressing the walkway between the bridges, and there's not supposed to be a walkway between the bridges. There's no walkway. That's why there's no plan. Yeah, yeah. So. There is a walkway between. I mean, it's at the end of the bridges, right. You can go from one side to the other. That's the walkway. Sure. Yeah. It's not down the middle. Exactly. It's called a crosswalk. I have a question, Steve. Yes? I hope what I read in the paper is just something temporary, talking about City funding rentals and trailer parks, because trailer parks are a prime source of housing for the. Funding? He's talking about the Section 8 vouchers. Providing Section 8 vouchers. Not going to We provide the Section 8 vouchers. They can go where they want to go. Pardon me? No, I think the Housing Authority is This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 62 Bailey: Made a statement. Elliott: Steve Raclos was quoted as saying that there would be no new ones, and I hope that is only temporary until something gets fixed up, because. Correia: I, I do think, I've talked to Vanderhoef: No more new ones in that park. Atkins: I didn't. Correia: No no no. No, that's not what. He said Vanderhoef: Oh. Champion: The paper said in general. Correia: I think in general, I think there's not a lot of vouchers being used in trailer parks, there's about 20 - I've talked with you about this, there's about 23 out of 1100. I think the problem is it's real1y hard to figure out what the ownership is of the trailer. Who owns it? And that has been Wilburn: Wel1, that was the issue that the. Atkins: I'm sorry. I missed the story, Bob. I'll talk to Steve, try and get up to speed on it. Wilburn: That was the issue. The owner was, or some owner was having someone else claim to be a resident and they were getting Correia: And this has happened more than once. Atkins: Oh, that investigation? I knew that there was an investigation about a particular one underway and I think it was one ofthose cases where somebody's got to mess it up for everybody else. El1iott: This was an outgrowth of that. Correia: Wel1 I don't think it's just that somebody is messing up, I think what Steve told me is it's hard to establish ownership and so they have a hard time determining it, so it's not related necessarily to the tenant or, it's just hard, or easier to establish ownership of who owns a condo or who owns a house because of the way that works. Atkins: Yeah. Well the ground is not deeded to rental space. Correia: Well it's not about the ground it's about the trailer, right. They don't. Atkins: There's no real estate. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 63 Elliott: If you'll just look into that. Correia: The trailer is the real estate, the voucher is Atkins: No, not real estate, it's a vehicle. It's a motor vehicle. Bailey: Property. Correia: Well ok, that's why it's hard to determine who owns that vehicle. Atkins: Ok. I didn't read the story. I'll have to. But a mobile home is a vehicle. O'Donnell: It's licensed. Atkins: Yeah. Correia: It must be hard to figure out who actually owns it then. O'Donnell: I don't understand why it's hard. You call in the license number and. Elliott: Somebody has to own it, there has to be a record, an official record of ownership, but anyway, you've got that. Atkins: I've got it now. Correia: Have to ask Steve Rackis why it's hard. Wilburn: Anyone else want Council Time tonight? Champion: Well I have a couple things. Urn. I don't know how to say this. Do we have different rules on football Saturdays than we have the rest of the year? Bailey: Did you get that email, too? Vanderhoef: Which one? Champion: No. I was downtown. Bailey: Oh. Open container. Atkins: We do our best. Champion: I mean. When I think of how much trouble, not particular Council, but the Council had in getting to allow in sidewalk cafes, and yet on Football Saturdays we had people walking all over downtown drinking out of wine bottles and, and cans of beer and I don't know. I don't know why we allow that behavior downtown, and these are, these are not all students, these are adults and people were parked on Dubuque Street all over, never paid the meter, never got a ticket. And you know, my customers park 5 minutes overtime on Monday through Saturday when there's not a football game, they get a ticket. I mean, I think This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. _ _ __.~__"_.____~___,..~.._._,__.._._~.._.,._.~..__._____.__..__ ..._ __"___,___,,,~,",,_,_"_____,,_,,___,,____'__'_'_"'__"._m_._____..~______..__._____.___..__ --- ---------.- September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 64 Atkins: Champion: Atkins: Champion: Atkins: Correia: Atkins: O'Donnell: Atkins: Bailey: Champion: . Atkins: Champion: Elliott: Atkins: Champion: Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Champion: people downtown were irate about the behavior of people downtown and the lack of enforcement of our laws that are enforced Monday through Saturday except on football Saturdays. Somebody will sit on my bench Monday afternoon drinking a beer, the police will stop us. Candidly, I would agree with you. But they were drinking beer and wine on my bench. We, we simply do not have enough people. Well, we have police directing traffic. Do we need police to direct traffic? Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes. Well can we call in, like, the sheriff's reserves to direct traffic? We called, we had, we hailed over two, we had almost 25 people downtown, and the whole idea is keep the peace. There were 100,000 people here for that game. I'm, I mean, if you want us to get, it's just very difficult. If they see someone, dump it out. But arresting them simply doesn't But they don't. They don't do anything. They don't! And then it reaches a point where I don't even think they can do that. It's crowd control. Steve, I'd like to It is. I mean, if 3 officers are hurt in tussles with drunks. Well Well that's, my point is now that officer is out, so you go from 25 to 24 and But I agree with Connie. I mean, it sets a, it sets an attitude that on football Saturdays anything goes, but on Monday through whenever, that we will strictly enforce our ordinance, our sign ordinances, our parking meters, and I think it's sending the wrong message. And I'm also wondering if That, that could be bothered. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18,2006. -~------~_._---------~--~-,-_._._---_._~-'---_._-_.__.--------------------------------------.----.----...-...---..... September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 65 Correia: Oh, with the littering too, we just changed our ordinance and you just go down Melrose Avenue. I know a lot of littering is on University, right, and the Ped Mall. But I was over by Kinnick Stadium because I was bringing a child to do stadium cleanup, so as she's cleaning up inside ofthe stadium, all of the alcohol debris which shouldn't be there, and I think that sends the wrong message to our young people. There's garbage all over Melrose Ave. - that's City property, and I don't know - we clean that up? Atkins: Yeah, we clean it up. Correia: And I mean, how much? Elliott: I think Steve's point is well taken. I remember, this is the first time I came onto this was in, oh, probably the 70s, when we had the riots and so obviously this is much less. But there are times when keeping the peace means that you just have to overlook a few things. Correia: But then Elliott: There are times when if you start arresting people for all those things, you are going to initiate problems. Correia: But this isn't Champion: We're not talking about arresting, just please take the alcohol and throw it away. Correia: And this isn't keeping the peace, you know, there's a single event that has spurred public rage, whatever. This is, we have 7, 5, 7 home games every single year and as a community we have a lower expectation, then we're going to get that behavior. If we have a higher expectation and we start to communicate a higher expectation, I think over time we're going to get more of the behavior that we want. And if we don't push, there's not going to be any change and I think we just slide, it becomes more and more. Champion: I think Saturday's behavior was the worst I've ever seen. Bailey: Yeah, I was on the Ped Mall and actually, I thought it, at 3:00, but you must have been there later, because it was just filthy, but not, not bad. Champion: No. Rowdy. Well, when the game let out the Ped Mall was pretty amazing. So I'm talking about right on Dubuque Street, which isn't the Ped Mall. Bailey: Yeah. Dubuque Street gets pretty weird. I think we should enforce. Vanderhoef: The night before in this case the City staff cleaned the Ped Mall, but the rest of the area of downtown, I went down and I was picking up while I was waiting for Pete to do the mail, just around our store, because of all the stuff, I mean, crushed beer cans and papers flying every which way. That kind of stuff! just walk around, pick it up and dump it in the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ------_._._~._".__.~...~.._._-- _.._._...__._-,_....._-"----~--------,._----- . -------_.----_._~-_..._,---~- September 18,2006 City Council Work Session Page 66 Champion: Well, I think the abuse of alcohol by visitors to this City is pretty impressive. And we think we have a problem. Baeth: Yeah, I think it's probably most of the Iowa State fans that caused the problems last weekend. (laughter) Baeth: Just wait 'til more games, see if we still have the same problems. Bailey: Oh, because Ohio State fans, they're so quiet and calm and they literally drink. Bailey: There won't be as many of them. O'Donnell: Iowa fans are very well behaved when we go anywhere else in the Big 10. Baeth: Polite. Vanderhoef: And a friend of mine reported to me at this meeting in Marshalltown on Friday she'd been in the grocery store and here were these young students from Simpson that were buying their snacks because they were headed to Iowa City for the weekend. So, I mean, it's you all come and every young person that can get a ride to Iowa City on a football weekend, this is where it's happening. And they come. Correia: And I think it's great to have, we want, you know. Vanderhoef: But their rules, and sometimes when you're not in your home community you think you can do things that. O'Donnell: It's amazing what the City puts up with to take in millions and millions of dollars. Totally amazing. Wilburn: On a lighter note, there were about 30 females who told me they loved me on Saturday when I was biking through the area, so that just shows you what alcohol Champion: How much had they been drinking? (laughter - can't hear) Wilburn: That just shows you the effects of alcohol right there. Elliott: I want to go where Ross was. Correia: You want to go where. Bailey: Get on a bike, Bob, get on a bike. O'Donnell: I think we're deteriorating, here. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 67 Vanderhoef: He was at a birthday party with his daughter. Wilburn: We have scheduled pending discussion items and we have future meetings schedule. Baeth: Can I mention one more thing before we go onto that? I just want to bring to Council's attention an issue that was brought to me by a student who is representing the Student Disabilities Services at the University. She was concerned about an intersection, it's the intersection of Market and Madison, right by the IMU, north end of the IMU and the people with mobility issues are having a really hard time crossing the street because you have those cars zipping around the comer down that hill, flying. Bailey: Yup. It's hard to cross. Baeth: So she was, she proposed a 3-way stop at that intersection, which would be. Vanderhoef: You can't stop in the ice. Baeth: Right. No, exactly. But Ijust wondered if you guys could be open, at least trying to think of some solutions to this and I've already contacted the City traffic engineer, who is studying this, but, I just wanted to bring it to your attention, that I think it is a problem we need to find a solution for. Vanderhoef: Ok. She's trying to cross Madison? Bailey: It's a huge problem. That's a hard one. Baeth: Urn, both Madison and Market. Elliott: Either way, because the cars coming down the hill. Baeth: Come down and shake a left. Vanderhoef: Yeah, but if you're coming down, if you come down on the north side of the street and cross there is a stop sign over there. And if you get over to the Union, if you're on the north side of Market Street, without having those cars whipping around because the others are stopped. Baeth: Right, people on the south side. Right. Vanderhoef: The other alternative is to continue down Madison to the stop sign at Jefferson. O'Donnell: Or take a cab before (can't hear) Champion: I have one more thing I forgot to mention. And I know there's not a miracle solution to the football situation, but I'm just voicing it. Atkins: Ok. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription oflbe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 68 Champion: But I am going to voice again that the number of bicycles roaring down the streets downtown. Bailey: There's a lot of bikes on the sidewalks. Champion: And 1 don't know if we started a program this year to kind of give people warning? Vanderhoef: Carry your umbrella and stick it in the spokes. Elliott: I had an email of 3 instances. Correia: I've seen a lot of people downtown on bikes. Atkins: That should be over by now. We used to do that in the short term. Bailey: I've been seeing a lot and I think I saw a lot more this year. I don't know why. Baeth: We also have a Segueway Scooter zipping around now. O'Donnell: I saw that. That's really neat. Champion: Is that the one where you stand up? Bailey: Did they, did they Baeth: And I'm curious if we have any ordinances for Segueways now, what they're classified under, because they're just going on the sidewalks all over. A motor vehicle? Vanderhoef: We talked about them. We don't have an ordinance. (all talk - can't hear) Wilburn: There's way too many conversations going on. Correia: I motion to adjourn. Vanderhoef: We had a conversation about them. Bailey: Do you want to schedule? Pendin!! Discussion Items Correia: Oh, oh, pending discussion items. Wilburn: I'mjust mentioning, there's pending discussion items and future meetings schedule. I'm ok walking away, but I don't want anyone to come. Bailey: Do you have a list of what pending discussion items we have to discuss? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ,_____._.^__.___,______.~~_..___~__.._________.________._.___,._.______~.__"'. __,___.__.__.__. ~_~_________,__,_,____ ._, .u_._,______ September 18, 2006 City Council Work Session Page 69 Correia: Atkins: Wilburn: Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Atkins: Elliott: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Karr: Bailey: Wilburn: Elliott: Well we have inclusionary zoning, is that going to be scheduled at some point? Why don't [ give you a new list? Yep. Cool. I'll get you a list. We also have farmers' market. I've looked at the list tonight. Farmers' market and public works yard. What was that? Yeah. Those were the ones [ identified. Farmers' market is on, that's already, Parks and Rec. already have that one. Good. Oh. They're doing it. ['II get a new list. It was updated. And have we heard from the legislators, because? Oh, right. Yeah. It's on the agenda November 13th, 5:00, it was your first choice. Ok. Thanks. Sorry. Can't read. Thank you. See you tomorrow night. Thank you. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of September 18, 2006. ~...________..___.___,_. ....______._________._____.__~.___..__..'"_._. ____ - ~.._._.___.~_._.,_. - __._.___._____,._...._.__...____._~._________._...._________.__. .0.