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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-07-19 Agenda " , \~ ,; ; I 'j ";'1 ( /, :~ ',', , ' , "-":' I'" 'I,; " ~". - - ", .'," " \ . i '1~--;---~""" . . , .. ' " f. . I' " ..,.' , .' :1 I ' . Lt L .' ,; t '/ ' , ' ",' .' 1,'71 t .' , ':' '._ ',' _ '1' .' , \,.... "'-' -,....._.,'"._'..~.;...".,'.\. ,.,-,..-,,- 1. t / 1 ..../ .,.\;. ":'''-- -'-- - -~ ~-~-- , ...----... -~_..,._-" IOWA CITY CITY COUNCIL AGENDA SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OF JULY 19, 1993 6:30 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBERS, CIVIC CENTER 410 EAST WASHINGTON .....,.\,.. . ,.., ',..' " II . It II F !j 1. . \ II! , !~ i I i , ; I, i ! 'r I }: ".,' j" v. '., ~'. , . \ j' , ,,', ,. i' :i .".. ,-",'i , I " I , ) I' , , '" " ...... ~ ..,----..-:----~- ~ ~,......."/ , . , r '" . . 'I -- r i t' ,ii' ',-I, ' . "'. '" '. ..:1 """,' n,'- , , . . . . " , '. , , , .~. \ '..' .," - --' " . '-. ITEM NO.1. ITEM NO.2. . ,-. ~......".,..,. / " "" ~/! 'J.' \ '- .... ~._--- ~.. AGENDA IOWA CITY CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING . JULY 19, 1993 6:30 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBERS ~ ~ faMI ~ IMI~ CALL TO ORDER. ROLL CALL. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED OR AMENDED. a. Setting Public Hearings. (1) CONSIDER A MOTION TO SET A PUBLIC HEARING FOR AUGUST 3,1993, RELATIVE TO TWO APPLlCA. TIONS FOR TWENTY (20) UNITS OF PUBLIC HOUS. ING NEW CONSTRUCTION. Comment: Paragraph 403A.28 State Code of Iowa requires this public hearing p'rior to undertaking these housing projecis. The Iowa City Housing Authority proposes to construct and operate two projects of twenty dwelling units each, pursuant to the Unitad Statas Housing Act of 1937 as amended. Tha units will range in size from three and four bedrooms. Possible locations and estimated costs will ba dis- cussed at said hearing. (2) CONSIDER A MOTION TO SET A PUBLIC HEARING FOR AUGUST 3,1993, flELATIVE TO AN APPLlCA. TION FOR TWENTY-FIVE (25) SECTION S ,CERTIFI. CATES AND TWENTY.FIVE (25) SECTION S VOUCH- ERS. Comment: Paragraph 403A.28 State Code of Iowa raquiras this public hearing prior to undertaking these housing projects. The Iowa City Housing Authority proposes to Increase the number of rental assistances in the Certificate and Voucher programs of twenty. five units each, pursuant to the United States Housing Act of 1937 as amended. The units will range in size from one to three bedrooms. Possible locations and estimated costs will be discussed at said hearing. ---" -- - . I I I , I , I I Ii d Ii, II I! r !i ,) " t :\ i 1\ , ,.j ,\ If 11 I; ! ~j I ,j " i I I , i i \ \ . ',I ~. ;') ;! i , '. , ,', ~ - "l----.,,;--:-~--- '. . , ,'. ., ,I '.: '.' !, -' ':1' I' U.' L' ,::1 ",'. ',,' ':.,' , ' .,', IF""", , ~ '. .' / ' . ~. .. ~ ' ~I.:, _,. .. , . / 1/'\ " 1. ',. , - '-~ ....._n____ -~ Agenda Iowa City City Council Special Council Meeting July 19, 1993 Paga 2 b. Resolutions. qs - J 7? 93- /'10 "-i:.-l'il______._ :. ","'_. ""---""".' ~".' ''''',~",'' ~"'"... ._'" (1) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING TWO APPLI. CATIONS FOR PUBLIC HOUSING AND AGENCY REQUEST FOR FRONT-END ANNUAL CONTRIBU. TIONS CONTRACTS (ACC). Comment: On June 28, 1993, tha Department of Housing and Urban Devalopment issued a Notification of Funding for the Davelopmant of Public Housing. This would enable the Iowa City Public Housing Authority to apply for twenty units of three and larger bedrooms each, new construction. Two Applications would be submitted with one for Replacement of Homeownership Sales of Twenty units and tha second of Twenty units for a new increment. Tha funding for the program operates as follows: For Iowa City the 3 bedroom prototype cost of $83,750 x 15 units == $1,256,250 and 4 bedroom cost of $98,450 x 5 units = $492,700. If awarded, the Iowa City Housing Authority would purchase 20 units for $1,748,950 for each application. This would include all development expenses, land costs and , other construction disbursements. (2) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION IN SUPPORT OF ,TWO:'" PUBLIC HOUSING APPLICATIONS. Comment: See Comment abova. (3) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION OF COOPERATION. Comment: See Comment above. ~~ ~- \ ---..~".._- , I I I I I i I' I , , i I ill II! . Ii -'I: I ~ '\ ; ! : , l,; 1';,- ( Ii. r; 'Ji " :_'.J ,.., ,-- , , '-i :1 " ~ ", ':':/ .; .1 i ,. .', i. " I ,'" " ~. --. ...-- - -- -:-- f.... -.... - ... -,~ ~ , , , , , I :.,' It" './ :1/ .u, f'l" ....;.: ,"" .'.', ""', " I ' . , . ,,, \".'. ': ',.. .'.. ' - 1'- / 1/\ ,. .I \. ~~. . .'. '_':"~-::.--:..:::::: ~.- --...~ -'--. .--. Agenda Iowa City City Council Special Council Meeting July 19, 1993 Page 3 _~:1'lZ. (4) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING AN APPLlCA. TION FOR 25 UNITS OF SECTION 8 CERTIFICATES AND 25 UNITS OF SECTION 8 VOUCHERS. Comment: On July 8, 1993, tha Department of Housing and Urban Development issued a Notification of Funding for the Section 8 Certificate and Voucher Program. This would enable the Iowa City Public Housing Authority to apply for twenty-five units of one bedroom and two bedroom Certificatas and twenty-five Vouchers. If awarded, these applications would increase the Certificate Program to 527 units and the Voucher Program to 271 units. 93 -''<3 (5) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION WITH REGARD TO COM. PLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS OF 403A.5 OF THE IOWA CODE IN CONJUNCTION WITH APPLICATION FOR SECTION 8 CERTIFICATES AND VOUCHERS. Comment: This resolution affirms compliance with the Iowa Coda as to the duties and activities of a municipal housing authority. Tha language is required by the Departmant of Housing and Urban Devalop. ment. I I ~/I(~ ( k~) ADJOURNMENT. M ~tb ntCD ~ ITEM NO.3. ~/~ Ttfa oft~ i I I i I \.j"." '_.M~,,,......._...". , i , ; I , , I 1 ii I. I Ii II I' Ii ii I I.! I i I' 'I !: " . , Ii. 'ii: [i I !/ ,I;; II I. . 'I,' I I i '.' I '. I.,; r;' "i::" ~ ~. i' . I ' ,'" . " t ", ./:..." ." . ;y.;', , ',' '.' '. , ' I , /. " , ,. " '..' ..I 1 .' ,1,;;;.1' ". '-v. , I . , '..1' .:. '. ..... ~,. "'_., ' . / .1/'\ , 1 .r . ~_.-._-- #2 page I Courtney/Moved and seconded (Horow/Nov) to adopt the consent calendar. Discussion. Can we get a little update as to why we are doing these things and so on. Boothroy/ I will start and then I will let Ron give a some more detail. Kubby/ Doug, could you address why we are doing this tonight and not tomorrow night. What difference this 24 hours makes. Boothroy/ Well, we need to have 15 days under the housing section of the state code as opposed to the 14 day rule. Gentry/ No less than four and no more than 20. Boothroy/ In talking to Linda, if we do it tonight we will be able to publish tomorrow. That will give us 15 days, including August 3, and that will be enough to meet the HUD guidelines. Another thing is is that we wanted to do it this way because the last time we got an unfavorable ruling by HUD initially with our applicat ions for vouchers and certificates. We fought that. We won the battle but lost the war. We were right. They were wrong. However we didn't voucher and certificates. I don't want to go through that again even though the attorney generals opinion was in our favor in terms of the procedures we followed. I just think that it would be prudent to do everything we can to get this taken care of the way they would like to have it done. Even after we got the attorney general's opinion the legal staff in Des Moines expressed grave reservations as to whether it was a good opinion. But they had committed earlier to abiding by whatever the attorney general said, so. You know, I sense that there are these underlying feelings in Des Moines that they don't like what the attorney general said and of course, it did mean loss of millions of dollars in terms of vouchers and certificates not only for the Iowa City Housing Authority but for some other housing authorities in the state of Iowa. There is a little bit of egg on their face. Kubby/ Does that mean the notification came really late. That we couldn't have done it two weeks ago. Boothroy/ Ron just told me that we just now received official notification from Des Moines. And, of course, August 12 is the deadline. 4 PM, August 12, so there really are very few opportunities. He said that the reason that we didn't get the official notification in Des Moines until today was that it was lack of sufficient postage. But, needless to say, the notification is short. I have been told HUD throughout spring that they ,;.,' ----.. --- i: : i I. i'; II ~ I ~.. r " , Ii' 1\. I:. I I ii II: I; \: f ~ " i 'I ! I I ,i I 'I' I' .,. - , , " " I I ~ " ,I ;! ;,.., - ~~--;------,""- r" ",' ' ' f'" '", //,,"- ',,' :l'I' 'L,'"tn" 91' " ',/ .,' ";' _; ~/~. ,;. ,r~ " ,..._' . . ..' .,' / , , , . '/ ' /' 1 j -. #2 page 2 didn't know when the notice would be coming out. That we would have a very short time period in which to respond. We received the NOF A for the public housing ones-Notice of Funding Available, I am sorry. Sorry about that. We received that one in time to send it to the commission last Tuesday and get their recommendation. But as far as the voucher and certificate one, we received that after the commission had their meeting last Tuesday, I think it was last Tuesday, and were just not able to send that to them prior to this meeting. Just is just a question as far as having it tonight and getting it taken care of is just to trying to meet those statutory guidelines to not have any of these-not rely on past interpretations in order to get our applications approved. I just don't want to rely on legal opinions, either attorney general or HUD staff, in terms of how we handle this. Kubbyl Usually we get these official notifications in time that we can do these at regular meetings. Boothroyl That is not a usual statement. No. Sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. Last spring when we received that NOFA it was not in-it didn't give us enough lead time without having a special meeting of council. We have traditionally, and that was part of our argument with the attorney general, traditionally not received them to give us an adequate time to get them on a regular council meeting and so we have always had the public hearing after we sent the applications forward. That had been going on since I can remember and it was at the last spring the attorney that had reviewed some of those previous applications suddenly raised an objection which lost at least 20 vouchers and certificates for (can't hear) a time. We packaged this up, just very briefly, we have got two applications for public housing. There are I think four or five offerings. Two or three of them we wouldn't qualify for. One of them is for 20 replacement units for Home Ownership under section 5H. We talked about that Home Ownership Program before and it is something that we still would come before you for the details on that. And the other is for, at a lower priority as far as HUD is concerned, for additional public housing units. We submitted both of these to get them in the pipelines so that we would have an opportunity to compete under both of those particular sections. And then as far as the certificates and vouchers are concerned, Ron has a memo in there. We would In... ---'~" '-.- j I , ' ~' i , ' ,-; , ;., i: i II II: I - II 'I' 'I: :'f i:' I' I,; 1 'i " j 1 I; " l! ,. !! " Ii !j ,I , " I' fl r I' ~ f i I I , I J I II I, " I~" . , , , . ";,-; .' - , . .' ': '1..1 .U/ t"J' 'It ..',...--,..-;-._~."',, ' .. "''', I. b, , . .... .: .,".' ~ _ \ 'w :. , '. / ,: - '\ , " .I ' .' , "'-'~'--"- _k__... .__ #2 page 3 ask-we would apply for similar allotment in terms of one bedrooms and two bedrooms as discussed a year ago when the Housing Commission reviewed it at that time. One thing you need to keep in mind is, and we will have a p.h. on August 3 on this, is that you have up until the signing of the contract with HUD to turn down the award. So even if they were to come back and say we will award you 40 public housing units and 25 vouchers, you could say no at that time. It is certainly more difficult to say no when they are offering several million dollars but you are not committed. I just wanted to make that clear. You are not committed to taking any of this until you actually sign the contract once it is offered and the award is made known. Ron has prepared all of the accompanying information. A lot of it is forms that we have used in the past. You may have some questions about some of that or you may want to wait until the p.h. I don't know. Horow! I have a generic question about the NOFA. Is there a time deadline on this. Is it a use or lose type of funding. Boothroyl They will award Iowa, the Slate of Iowa, a block of money for public housing and for vouchers and certificates. Does the Des Moines office, Ron, make the determination as to what jurisdiction. They would make a determination as to how they would allocate out that chunk of money. Des Moines could get some, Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, depending on how they want to handle it and what types of applications. Some communities may not like the public housing, they only want vouchers and certificates. Horow! Is it money then being capable of being shifted around in Iowa or must it only that which goes in for Iowa City must be used within Iowa City within a specific amount of time. Boothroy! It must be used within this public housing-if we get an award of X amount of units, we have the choice of either building them in Iowa City, Coralville, Johnson County. The Public Housing Authority is an area wide agency. In the past those allotments have always been constructed within the Iowa City community. But it could go anywhere within the county, Iowa City Housing Authority's allotment could. Nov! It does say municipality. Boothroy! I think in this one we have narrowed it to the municipality and we have done that in the past because that has been the desire. I don't know where we have opened it up i i I I I ! i , , I \ ! I I I I ! I \ ( i I I I I I I I I i I I I 1 !: I! I ! 'I i II Ir " , h Ii ~ ; 11 " \\ . " , t,: ,I .(i :1 ., I ; .. Ii 1 , '"I , Ii , I " 1\ " h ;1 I :i: i , ! , ' ", . /' , , , - : " . > I hI'-', h. ./~t," ':' ,: , : ,I' "I ,,-, - -- -,' ' / /: \1 ~u~'__ -- --.. -- #2 page 4 county wide but that is certainly something that can be discussed and I think that the issue that we would have as administrators would be that if you, in terms of our ability to maintain services of the public housing units. The more spread out that they are. So jf you have some in Solon, North Liberty and other places it becomes a question of maintenance people going up there and taking care of them and stuff like that. That is why we have always selected to have them within this area. As far as certificates and vouchers are concerned, those will be and are presently located throughout the Johnson County area. In fact I think we even have a few outside of Johnson County that we provide service to. Like in Washington County and other places. Novl There is another jurisdictional question because it says payments in lieu of tax~.s shall go to the municipality. I am assuming that even though it says that we also give the money to the county and the school district. Boothroyl I think that is the pilot program. Just the school district. That is based on a-I can't remember what the formula is. It is on a per unit basis I believe. Nov/Yeah, it is on a per unit basis. I am questioning why the agreement doesn't include the city, county and the school district. Boothroyl We have to have a pilot program. Are you asking why doesn't the city get some money back from that. I don't know the history behind that. This is Ron's first trip to the podium since his tree accident. If you recall Ron bad a tree fall on him in the process of removing the tree- Ron Henderson! When they originally formed the Iowa City Housing Authority they were walking on the 28E agreement, procedures for the rest of the county and the county waived it's portion of the tax as well as the city as contributions towards this as long as the pilot went to the school board, So our pilot in total goes to the school board in payment. Novl The total percentage. Hendel'lion! That is a calculation of 10% of our income less our utility costs it what it figures out to be. HUD two years ago came out with another formula where you are suppose to make sure that it is equal to the assessed valuation and that we have looked at and the pilot 10 % comes out to be just as much. Boothroyl Last year we were $10,000. , i 1 h Iii I " " ;/. Ii 'I' , I. i, 11 " Ii " Ii 'ii . , j;! ;j I' II !; " ,', I Ii I 'I :i " , I , I ) I , I '. 1 , I , i i, 1 i i I , , I , I I I I 1 I I " I I" " 1:: , i , 'I ~ ; : .' ........... , , \" 1 ,I 1 , ..':' ,< " ".- ~,. ------ - . \ Ii fl " r.' ;! I"'.' '1~--;--~"" ~ -;'......: --. ...~ - -- ~",', :'1 (/'!~/ '. b. "!:t''', '" :'" .: ,~ '" ,_' I " / / ;,"\ i 1 , , '-, .':' . . . -~- '-...-.----- '-" #2 page 5 Henderson/It depends, of course, on what our income. I think it is around $12,000 this year. Horow/ The reason! am asking the question about the use or lose is Section 4 states what the municipality, i.e. Iowa City agrees to within a reasonable time after receipt. It talks about dedication, interior streets, roads, alleys, etc. It talks about provide water mains, storm, sanitary sewer. And I started thinking in terms of how much this will cost if it isn't- if the houses are clustered in a subdivision that hasn't been created yet. It is a large expense. It they are in a subdivision that has been created! don['t know what the expense is or if they are peppered throughout the city that even perhaps would mean a lesser amount of money. And so when I started trying to figure out exactly what the most amount of money that the city would have to kind of ante up for this program and the least amount! kept wondering while we are trying to find this money since we are under a tight resource budget, what happens if we can't find the money and we can't use the HUD money. Boothroy/ First of all it is our intent to not subdivide and create a subdivision. I think that would be-! am not sure that could be done within the income guidelines at all. I think we would have to look at areas that are already subdivided like Whispering Meadows. Village Green is going to be coming forward with some zero lot lines down in the southeast comer of that area. There may be some other places that are available. ! can't envision that we would actually- what we are asking for is single family detached and zero lot line. At this point! can 'I envision that the city would do a subdivision and up fronting those costs. Of course block grant funds can be used for infrastructure improvement. We haven't, to my knowledge, used it to any great extent. But they certainly are available for utilization. So if we did look at buying some land where we would have to put in a street. The Planning Department has looked a couple of areas. That infrastructure could be, in part, paid by block grant funds in conjunction with the Public Housing. Horow/ Has the CCN seen this proposal yet. Boothroy/ ! am not sure how it relates to them, actually. Horow/ For block gmnts? '~.- -- -.....--- , ' : I i I " , I,j ~ Ii " Iii I' t II I, i' , i: " 1 1\ i , " !i jl 1 I; I II , I i " I r J 1,1 II 'I B 'I , \,,; .' _. 9\---- ~ ...-~'.-,.... I . .. . ; ,I . ) :' - , ' :1 J'.: 1,-,1 " '1-:-/.. " /:-t. ',<",' '.:. " , ,I '" t / ' ': '," . . ',~ t -, / , , \ .>~ , ,/.. ~---'.-............ #2 page 6 Boothroy/ We are not suggesting that we are going to do this at this time. I think what is important is that we get the application in so that we get in the running for the funds. If we come to a point where we have to do infrastructure improvements we certainly would take it to CCN at that time. But I don't envision that we will have to do that. It would be-that is sort of the situation of the last resort. Horow/ So we bonestly don'l know really how much money we would have to kind of match. Henderson! We would have to match any. Horowl I don't mean match in the true sense. This Section 4 concerns me. Henderson! I understand. Like indirect costs that might mount up to he a significant amount. But I am not certain that that is an issue at even at this point because they allow us to like right now I believe it is $83,000 and some odd dollars for a three bedroom unit. So that is how we arrived at that calculation. They also have some latitude to go like 110% of that award. And when we get that award and know how many units we are going to be building, that will really predicate the design from wbich those cost we are talking. We may have to look at just infilllots. There may not be enough infilllots. Maybe we can use a portion of it and maybe we can't and maybe we would have to go back to HUO and ask them for more funding in order to complete the project. That happens and we would not be the first city to not be able to complete a project because it just didn't work out on paper. HUO is committed to try to make it work out on paper with funding but even to some point they are reticent. The last time we put in the acquisition project HUO recommended that we do construction. I feel that construction costs in the city are at such a level with HUO's constraints with where the property is and the rest of it that it might he better to be a private developer. But we are willing to go along to increase our opportunity for you to make the choice I guess is my bottom line. I think if the dollars don't work out very well for us there is no sense in getting into the project. Even though we may have a need locally there may be other ways of "skinning the cat. " Horow/ Thank you very much. Kubby/So you think that if this $83,750 won't really give us a new three bedroom there is an avenue for going hack to HUO to get i' , , I ! i, I' ~ )1: 1\ I' i ~ " j! 'I, Ii II , " f' 'i :' ,- i t. i I' oj Ii " (" 6 II I,; I " ; iI , " i 'I I I I J , >, f. t " " " .'i .",...."'" ~ 'IIfIIIIJIIff"'" ..... --~ ~, ~-- qa, .-'........ -:.- --- I ,', " '/ ' , " -, {t '. " '.. " ':-1 ILl, ./' :i' " ',.,., . ,'''' ,'. . '. . I,. ':' ',' - '."," ,I. ,', ',.., , '. / / , , ,>' '1 I, \., ~. -', ---..-.. --- #2 page 7 supplemental fund so that we can replace housing that we sell one to one. Boothroyl Or even the new housing if we were to get the other grant which would be additional housing. Either one of those. I know down in Whispering Meadows the zero lot lines are selling in the mid-60's per side. It is conceivable that if you can find existing lots in those areas, you can use some. I do know that .they are in the process of getting a preliminary plat for additional lots in that area. Kubbyl Those are three bedrooms zero lot lines. Boothroyl That I don't know. I didn't even take the time to look at that. Kubbyl Steve, how many bedrooms in Sycamore View. Atkinsl Three. Those are three. Kubbyl Because I am thinking we didn't make any profit off of that and those were $65,500 and we own the land. And so when I look at $83,000 I am wondering can we really do it when we include the land and other- Atkinsl They were close to it with our silent second mortgage. $65,000 for the house, 12-13 for the lot. There were at $75,000-76,000 when we were done wit them. Henderson! Just as an aside, if I could to give a little more light on this, is the acquisition project that we are just presently going through. We have got 19 houses basically secure for the project. We have one more to go and we have a balance left of like $54,000. Not enough to get another house. So we have applied for HUD to increase that to meet today's requirement of $83,000 from the original that we started with, But we have averaged on purchase price for used homes here in Iowa City at $76,000 for the 19 units which were 5 four bedrooms and the balance of threes. HUD is now sort of over a barrel if you would. They are only one house short of us completing the project. We are under the maximum allowable when we started the contract. Still under the maximum allowable. So I am fairly certain that they are going to up the ante. Now, as construction goes along. When we started that acquisition project there were other public housing authorities that were awarded construction money and none of them have gotten more than a hole in the ground at the moment. We are almost through with our acquisition project and they, on construction, still really haven't started. It has been because the " :\ I I I i i r i 11 " d I;' '" i! ; (; i , 'Ii I' II , I .; "r, .\/ "f, I il I I , " .,. ! t. ~~ :' , , . , , \',,, ,.,- ,. \ ' \, .th ~". - - ...,~-;:._--~--- f ' ,'" , , ," , I _ '_ " , .. ':' ~' 'I" LI, ,:I I " ''-~ ' : ',' , ': ':" . ..' , " I, t ,I _ ' ' . .' - . ,- ". - / ;~ ~J ' , -, '- --.-. -- #2 page 8 requirements are bring in a plan and then they look through the costs and send it back and back and forth. So it is a real long process. It is not something that is going to crash down and at any point if we feel like we are getting the bad news from HUD I think we can pretty much back out. Boothroyl Unfortunately they review everything. Very carefully. All the plans. Everything has to. Even the site locations. Very strict about site locations. Sycamore view would not be an acceptable location. It was from the city's point of view. Land costs is going to go up. He mentioned the 19. While we are talking here these are photographs that I will just send around of houses that we have secured to date so that you can see what they looked like. I do want them back after you are done taking a look at them. I thought you might-I will pass these around. Novl What would be the objection to the Sycamore View site. Boothroyl The RR tracks. Street would not be a good factor but the RR would definitely be a problem. Kubbyl In some of this stuff that I have read like in Nation Cities Weekly and stuff. Cisneros is not as up on this program as.of the selling and then replacing with new construction. Can you update me on what you have read. I have read that funds for this particular program might be cut by up to two thirds. Hendersonl The problem is that the replacement is a statutory and so if they are going to cut they have to cut basically the public housing program. In other words, congress has already put one, tow, three, four on how they want.what the funding is to be used for. So any cutting they do will have to be on that one, two. In other words four goes off the bottom which are new increments. Then the next thing might be replacement for home ownership. Boothroy.l So there are priorities. Henderson! Or it may be like replacement of damaged property. Now from what I understand about Cisneeros is he is into the initiatives like the FFS Program and Tenant Management and the rest. I haven't really heard that he is not into home ownership because they are really strengthening the HOME and HOPE Programs. Basically the HOME Program and were they are pumping a lot of money into the tenant management or exploration of reversion of property into tenant management. I can't really speak to that. i , , ! , , 1 i I , I I , II. , i H, I: ! I ,; ! \ , I' , I ;/ I ! I,' I Ii I' " i , ;1 \ .J " j i I 1 I I \ 'I , ,. , I, i I , 1 i I j I ! I I I I , I i , I " ; , /, ~ I . I'; : , , ',: i,.'" 1'1) " " " , I ,; \,,; ,. ..- \ 1 I, II '1 __ '. ~---~T_..... , .' , , I ' ,',',,',' -, -t', ' ". · , , '1'1"" LI. - "I ,''- ' " " '.' ',' , " , ",,' '.' ',' , .' \. -.._- .. '.. ',', M. ' .' / I /~'\'1 , '" , --------..., #2 page 9 Kubbyl So you haven't heard specifically but it doesn't make sense what I have read in terms of other things. Hendersonl When Cisneros talks about using public housing as a means to a better life rather than a way of life and that is the same verbiage that came out of HUD prior to this. And there doesn't seem to be an across the board. They just last year just renewed Section 5H for five more years which is what we are looking at here as opposed to the HOME Program which is their home ownership program. We are looking at 5H gives a lot more latitude than the HOME Program does which returns the capital to HUD. Kubbyl 1 got the transcript from the CHAS meeting in '91 or whenever it was and it helped. 1 wanted it to jar my memory because 1 know that there were people who spoke at that against the sale of public housing and one of the things that on the staff level or on the housing commission level, 1 can't remember which, that we changed the sale of public housing to investigating the sale of public housing. And so 1 guess before 1 am able to vote to apply to sell public housing 1 guess want to know if there was that investigation or that study. And if so, 1 don't remember reading it. Maybe I got it but it flew over me or something. Boothroyl 1 would have to go back and reconstruct it. My recollection of-I understand the language in the CHAS but we also had another meeting with council to talk about this and the resolution I recall was that when we brought the program back to you which is basically putting it together which is the investigation part, that is when you are going to make your final decision. But the guiding principle that you set at that time was that there would be no net decrease in public housing units and this is what the replacement program is all about. No net decrease. 1 think that the mechanics, obviously the mechanics of selling public housing have to be worked out before we could proceed with the replacement. We have two years, as I understand it, in which to get those mechanisms together in order to avail ourselves of those funds. So if they give us $1.7 million, before we could start we are going to have to know what we are doing and we are going to have to have these things in place. You are going to have to approve those. Kubbyl Does that include Operation Bootstrap. I don't really like those terms. "-- ---""- .-.- , , , , 1 1 i I " I l'. , I j II I , " . Ii, " I I' I i ,I I ! i! Ii' I i Ii , 'I: Ii I .' j I' Ii ~ I '~ ," I d I' I I , l ! I " j , 1 I i i I ,I I j i ! I ; i i I' II 1 'I I , !I , " 1 1 I). i " :. ! I 1 { I 1::111 .,. I , I , , ! './ " i I; , " " : 'I 1.1 " .-.,..- , " ----- - ..,----..-----;--......- '-a -, ......-:' . . I, ' , ",' ',' , ,,-" . , ,"" " : - ' : :1 I Y1 ..;, I Lt /',,' . . . . "' I \ ' , ' . - ~ . , .:' :', ~,' '. ",. 'I .~ '. '. , , , / 1'-' \. / I J ", l' -...--------.. If2 page 10 Boothroy/ [ don't think that exists anymore. Henderson/ That is a passe term. Boothroyf Each time, as we talked the last time, each time we sell a unit after we have got the mechanisms in place that you have approved, each time we sell it, of course, you would have to review each sale to determine whether or not you feel that it is appropriate to sell. The other thing that I might mention about the placement and Ron, you can correct me but under the Section 5H Program and [ think [ mentioned this to the council, too, is that we get the-the funds are front ended but my recollection is that we can go ahead and begin building the replacement units initially and the sale of public housing as we are able to market them. Do you understand what I am saying. Kubby/ I refer it that way. That we never have a net decrease even in that window of time in between- Boothroy/ In other words, if it takes us five years to sell 20 units we would have, of course in the interim, hopefully would have those 20 units built within the two year window that they require us. If not they should grant us an extension because they don't like to fail either. If we fail, they fail. So, the other thing, like with Sycamore View, Karen, we and as we have talked before, we believe it is tile Housing Commission and we think it would be your policy to try to maintain those as affordable units in the community as long as they were subsidized. Because even if they are sold they are going to be underwritten by the Housing Authority and subsidized by some long period of time. Just like the Sycamore view except maybe for a longer period of time they would be maintained as lower cost housing even if they were not public housing. So, I think in terms of the overall goal of getting more affordable housing-at least what my perspective is it maintains our existing housing stock at a certain level but at the same time it expands the amount of affordable housing because there are some newer owner occupied units. It also gives-what we think is attractive is it also gives families in our program that are trying to step up and out of public housing, we have what maybe five or six families that are interested in purchasing a home and they are very close to the point of leaving the program and this would be an ideal opportunity for them. We don't have many more than that identified but we do have a few. It is something that I think-you know, from my point of . ---'-" .._~ I ' i , 1 i I ' I I II; I il - l!, 'I I" , \ I"~ \ t II il ", :1 ',' 'I U " ',I .i II II " II ' I " ,I, , I 1 .1 i I , I I i I I I I I ;\ , ! , I , ) , , " " . .' '.', / ,,' '. " - - I. -:. r '. 'I L/' '1 "1 , ' " , , - {' ""..",. ~ '. ' ',' , ,:1 . ", I" ' '/1',., '.' ' , ' " U , . . 'J" .;'.'. ','. \. ,_ .. I ;' ! ,', /'1 ,J/" - '- ~-- -- #2 page II view, is that if you don't have it in the pipeline, we can debate this other part, it is going to be a few months before we find our about the award. If you don't have it in the pipeline, if you are not in it is like playing the lottery, if you are not in there you are not going to have the chance to get the funds even if you are interested. And so- Kubbyl This is a big public policy decision for me. This is a different direction and I don't, because of my philosophy, I don't like even putting my name on applying for something if I don't agree with it. Boothroyl You don't have to. I don't care. That is your decision. If you don't want to apply for it is fine. Kubbyl One of the things that Pat Meyer had brought up at this public hearing that some of the DVIP clients felt that when they were being screened for public housing that they were looked at as if they would become buyers. SO that we are looking at the most qualified people to rent the public housing that could potentially get into this program instead of potentially looking at the most needy people who need to get into public housing. So, how do we insure that even unconsciously we don't screen people out who are the most needy to have our program be successful. Boothroyl You have to talk to Ron about that but I don't think- Horowl Wait a minute. You are going to have to keep telling me something because for me screening means that I am looking for the person who is going to be most successful in that program. And I the object is to get them to make payments on a house and live in the house and work towards getting their own home then isn't the screening process what you want to look at rather than the type of person that is coming to us. Kubbyl No, I am saying that people who come in to have the opportunity to get into public housing, that there are two conflicts in values. One is getting people who are in public housing into purchasing that public housing and the other one is getting the most needy off the street or out of the shellers and into public housing and how do we make sure that we are serving the people that most -like the people who will qualify under the criteria to purchase that housing aren't as needy as the people who are in the shelters. Horowl Right.! So I guess my question would be why would they need-those people in the shelters, why would they necessarily i , , , , : : I I" !, !i i Iii , I :' , I ! i I , !i Ii, I i' I, i', /1 Ii I, I: , I' " ,I I,' !. I I I: , l' ,",.1 " IJ I " Ii ji I' I ~ i Ii' I J " ii, I 1, , I : " , I! I i ~ . ! i I . , I I I ! I , 1 1 I I I I , :i ~ \' f " 'I " ~ ! ' ,'.. . (. '~,'" ",:...,' ,', ' ',' ,: '. :' >' , 'I.' l.I'I," tt . , .. ' ", I' " , - , . t , " . ' . '. , - / , !~\ '] .'-,. ~._.~'''-- ~-. #2 page 12 need to purchase a home. Wouldn't it be more important to get them in a roof under their head. Kubby/ Right. That is wbat I am saying. I am not communicating my point very well. But I want to make sure that Sue is understanding my question. So I am saying that I want to make sure that when we get people into public bousing that we don't first take the people at the top end or the people who quality because we want them to get into the program to buy the housing. Henderson/I would be happy to provide statistics of all the people that we put into public housing over the passed year to demonstrate the fallacy of that feeling. As with any group we have some marketability problems and people are aware of the sale of public housing from the last go around over a year ago when we first brought it up. A lot of people are curious about that and in fact they even, some people have hooked it to the FFS Program which it never was hooked to as an end product. In other words they would start into the family self sufficiency program and wind up with a house. They thought that was the end object of it. There is a lot of times that that information is given out but at no point that I am aware of as Director of the Iowa City Housing Authority has housing been offered on a income basis. Not since I have been director. I won't or I can't speak as to what went on before I was ever here but I will honestly say that we do not regard income as any kind of a criteria for placing people in housing. What is used as criteria are tenant behaviors, past experiences with payments to landlords, care of rental property. Those things are what we look at. Unfortunately we don't have a rehabilitation program that allows us to look at people who have had problems in the past but I mean that is something that hopefully other community groupS can resolve for us. But I would be happy to supply that if the information coming out is that we are selecting on that it is only because of a problem in hearing rather than a problem in speaking. We try to market and encourage people to say that if you like this house just think that someday maybe you can buy it if the program goes through. We bave people rigbt now that were in the first wave of people that we contacted about buying a house over a year ago that keep calling me up. I would be happy to give you their names for further exploration on what we actually bave J '! ," " " -.-_'. n._ i , i I i I I , I , I I , i i I . , I " I, 'Ii I! " " I: :i . I i r )' ] \ I.' " I' , " l:! I' " , j r i I I I ! I I ! 1 i I I I I I I I I I I I I I i i I , , I 'I I' "j II II j 'I I J L " Ii i '! ...........,.. ---- .- ""'-----...--:---~-.... ~ 1It-........ '/ I ! , ,; I " ~I ".>... ..... .....-- . ' '., "' " > " I' I'" II' , -"., ":"1 ' ..',:,. , ...,:1 : Il-" . , 'I " ", t ' : ' " . : ":' ',~ . '. "\. 'I ,- . , I , ,:/'~ ,I. - '-,'- ...... "'-'- #2 page 13 heen telling them throughout the two years. [am not trying to string them on hut just the reality that yes, it has go to go through the process and no, it is not complete and all of the rest of it. But many of the people that moved into our acquisition projects ask ahout that. Kuhbyl I am not suggesting that that happens but that- Hendersonl I understand that I am reacting at an emotional level right now because that is really not a true statement and if it is true I mean I would like to know which one of my staff is doing it and how come my statistics wouldn't bare that out. Kubbyl Well it is important for me to see those statistics. It is important for me to ask that question. Henderson! It is just as important to me to respond to that at a fervent level... .no I am not Lyle Seydel. Boothroyl And as far-for your point of information, Karen, is that we selected the two public housing projects that we thought we had an opportunity to succeed in getting funds. Has we been able to-we had fully intended to put the program together for the sale of public housing for your consideration this fall. However, the NOFA comes out and if we are going to make that deadline which is August 12, we don't have a choice. We either have to do it now or and we don't have the details ready for your consideration. So it is not a situation where-J think what you have to understand that sometimes in these situations with HUD, the NOFAs come out and you are given 30 days and you have got to react and sometimes you have to either go with it or don't go with it. If you choose not to vote for it. Courtneyl I think we have got p.h. coming up and considerations of this so I would like to move on. Pigott! J just wanted to say that while I understand the end result I just worry about the possible reduction in low income housing by this. Boothroyl Not possible. That program doesn't allow the reduction. It is a replacement. Pigott! Right. But the reduction in the amount due to if the sale of the house took place before a new one is constructed wouldn't the amount of rental housing- Henderson! The number of units would fall but so would the number of people that are considered renters because with every rental property that you would sell you would reduce the rental population by one. We have people who are in public housing '- _M_.~. _ --:_--- Ii I I i! ; Ii I ,I if .' .I " I. I !! \, Ii 1\ " II I I:: , I' I[ I .Il ! j I Ii ; 1 I :;, Ii , I ;:i , " .; " ~ ';'.l lJ' ---- I I ~ (..-' . I " , , ' , ( " - I -' " ;-;:. :1,1', ,L,' , ,', " "I'-t ' '" ,,' ",' , , _. I. ,'/' " . .. , , ,'- ..... . . ,,! ~ .. '. -. -, / /-" ,~, ' -, '-'- ......~--- -- #2 page 14 and have been in there since they built the place who joke as we put the sticks around it they were there. So we have not only all of the public housing units that never have always been available because of the longevity there but our desire here is not to reduce but increase or expand the housing capabilities of the city. I think one thing we haven't even addressed and one thing I try to avoid addressing is if we were able to sell all of the units at full price what would the city council do with three and half million dollars to use in the area of housing. I mean that is the enticement. Do you want to buy your own house. I mean that is the enticement. I mean that is the enticement on the other side. Even if we sold these units even though they are to be replaced and will be replaced, the question is what happens with the profit with the revenue from that and that could be used to even expand it further. And those are the questions that the council obviously needs to struggle with in trying to weigh both sides of it. And that is a difficult choice and you asked for it. Nov! In our future sales, if a house is sold do we have some kind of covenant that assures us that the next sale will also be to someone who also needs affordable housing. Henderson! Yeah, it will be fashioned much after the same language at Sycamore View uses to hold houses. Nov! Sycamore View, I believe, did not have a covenant on it for resale. Kubby! It has a IS year clause. Henderson! Ours would probably have as long as there is a second mortgage we would be involved in the sale at some point. Boothroy. There would probably be allowing some equity increase but not excessive. Henderson! Require you to look at windfall profit or windfall equity increased money. So it would be heavily loaded for recapture, if you would, within a 10-15 year period. HUD waivers on that. I think they have a five year decreasing in their HOME Program. That after five years then the house just reverts to the owner to the occupant owner. Boothroy! The difference between the HOME Program- the other home ownership program than the 5H is we do keep the proceeds. I think the other one you have to return it which is a big incentive. 1Ll - I, I I' , I, 11 ili I " I: 1\: II " " " :i i! . II . :1 1'.1 !;, Ii ',1 II! .) I " j: I " I: I, 1: I , ;: j ': 1 ( I , i' , 1 i. , ! ,- i: I I I I I i i ii, I , ' i " " ", :\,j \! ~,. - l ~ f " " ~ r."" - 'l-----...;--;.---~---~ -'.. -; ... ...., ....... ..-- - -- ':- -f"..... ... ~ T I... -'-.. ~ yo ...... " ' I", "11'" u . '.;-,.' Ct',' ',,: ;'", ,':, . ,', ' ,.'. I' :' - : " ' '" ,,' ,', .. ,I " ,-',. L . ., . '~.,' . .' ',t. " '. / /, \ , 1 { . . '-~ - #2 page 15 Kubby! Do we have time-Ian Rutledge is here. She spoke at the other p.h. and I would like to hear from her before I vote on this. Courtney! We are not voting. We are setting the p.h. Kubby! We are considering a resolution approving application. Look at b.(l). We approving the application to be sent and before-and because of the way I am I need to make sure that I am for the program before I even approve the application. And I know the argument is there that you can approve the application and make the decision about the public policy and then say no if you get the application. I just don't personally agree with that. So, tonight, I personally am making the public policy decision if I vote yea or nay on the application. So I would like to be-if you wouldn't mind like two minutes if Ian has any comments. Courtney! Linda. Gentry! Are we-we are still on-the only thin on is the consent calendar. Courtney! Well, but these are all in the consent calendar. Nov!1 don't know why they did it that way but that is the way it is done here. Gentry! Are you asking if can she speak. It is up to you. Courtney!Okay. It is not a problem from the standpoint that the p.h. hasn't been set yet. Nov! Well, we will set the p.h. and she can come again next week. Gentry! It is a public meeting. Courtney! Okay. Fine. Go for it. Got to get through the legal department you know. Ian Rutledge! I appreciate the chance to offer a few comments. I work for the Legal Services Corporation of Iowa which provides legal services to lower income people in civil matters and area of housing is a special area of interest for me and I have been kind of following the proposed sale of public housing for several years. I have some real concerns about it and some of them have been mentioned earlier tonight by council members. I t1link the problem I have mostly right now is there is no plan. There was 0 study and there is no plan. And that it is very hard to know how to react or what the problems are when you don't have any kind of plan. Nothing in writing. I have been told don't worry there won't be any displacement but there is no plan. I have been told don't worry it won't cost the city I " I I, ,I i :1 i' ~~ .___u._...........____ , ' '" , ( " .: \ \,; fir'" ..... .- , " " ii I:; ~:,.o:.." ~.~ "l----...--:-'--~... ~ --'.. ...~ ",. . ' -----... J ' . . \.' ~ ~.' 1., . '. " ..' " ..: I . LI" c fi' /';-[ , / " ' >'" , . 'I' , " " , . ". '. ., 'I t: .. _ " _ _". .' / ." '1 .'~' . """-"-- #2 page 16 anything. We will do it all with federal money but I wonder about that. There is no plan. There is no study. What about loan servicing. I have raised that earlier and even the most recent information I say which was from November of '92 there was something in there saying well, that is a pretty good idea. I suppose if people get into trouble once they buy the public housing and they can't make the payments, if their job has no sick leave, for example, and they do come ill or something. They can't make their payments or they are going to be foreclosed upon or in the street. Are we going to help them. There is no data about how much that will cost or what the guidelines will be and so forth. I think that there are a lot of maybe hidden costs as was mentioned earlier and without a real careful study and a plan it is hard to make a decision and I think the new public housing units are no problem. The certificate and vouchers are no problem. It is just the replacement units. I understand that you can pull back and that you aren't committing yourself hTevocably by voting on this but I think that the council really deserves better information than it has so far before even voting to make an application. Because it will be a fair amount of staff time, I assume, to do the application and if it is going to be something that you don't want to do then it really probably isn't a good use of resources. Any questions. Ambr! Are you being critical of the two people who just spoke. Are you being critical of some other source for not having the plan, as you say. Rutledge! I am not that familiar with city government to know whose responsibility it is to have a plan. Ambr! Did you not like what was told to us before by these two gentlemen. Rutledge! I have heard a great number of things over the course of several years on how this will work. And what is being described today is radically different than what I heard being described two years ago. I don't know what the plan is. There really isn't a written plan. I have secn a number of written plans but there is no-this is it. It is just a lot of ideas on paper and that is fine at early stages to just commit your thoughts to paper and kick it around. But at some point before the council votes I think there should be a specific plan and you can see what the costs are and know what the city is getting in for in I Ii Ii " " II I: I., Ii !, " i \ i' i' i'! , .' Ii: III I; ..,) 'j " I I I I ,I ------~ .....~ " .' , ) . ,l, '. ',' :'. ~ ' :1 I LI, t I, :t t,', " ,,', ',' " ~', , - , I" "r r'J' " ,V . - I, .^ ~'. -.' " .:' . ,. , ' / , , 1 I, \' ---'-" .-.- #2 page 17 terms of hidden costs and what the affect will he. Who will benefit. Who it will potentially hurt. I just haven't seen that kind of careful analysis yet. Horowl Jan, I appreciate your raising these. As a planner I often times want to see the whole picture. I guess-However, I have been in this seat long enough to be concerned about the people who need the housing and want to see this evolve at the same time I am sure HUn doesn't even have a plan for all of the questions that you are raising which are very valid. I would like to at least get a leg up on accessing that money while we are working out those questions. The questions that you have raised right now are down in the minutes and certainly will be for me during the period of time that we are getting this money and working on it, ones that I would ask staff about. Rut I would hate to stop everything and not go for that money while I am looking to answer these questions because being a planner in both health care tiled and now in solid waste management, I can guarantee you as soon as you answer three questions you will come up with six more and it is a never ending. There is no such thing as a perfect perfect plan. It is just unreal. And I guess for the purpose of warm bodies getting in houses I would rather go for it right now and work on those questions. Ambrl Steve, have you followed this closely enough to be able to respond to Ms. Rutledge. Atkinsl I don't have trouble with the questions but I am not so sure what we would do differently. As a housing authority we respond to the programs that HUn offers us. If we have a policy of no net loss of units, doesn't that provide you with sufficient comfort that we are not going to fall behind. Could the person that purchases the home find themselves at some time in a financial situation that lI1ey could not any longer cover the cost or whatever the circumstances. I guess the answer is yes. That could happen to everyone sitting at this table. That can happen to anyone. I don't know what a plan, Jan, would make any difference other then we would factor in one or two losses a year. You would have to set up a budget to cover something such as that. If you would even choose to do so. I mean how far do you take-once you have accomplished home ownership we cut you loose and you are on your own like everybody else and you are out there to fail or enjoy the i I I I I I I , I I I I j I I I I I j I , J I ) I i I I I I I 'i 1\: I , 11 ! " - ii " II r j! " " I I:- " , if , I,' Ii ..1 , " I j " I f . I I ,I: ' I " I iI I I /; , " i ! , i P , , '! " ,I.',..;.....~... l.i I:; ':i 1 , , '! \.,! ,I 'IIIIJf',. ....... - 'I II , , II , 1 ! j < " :./.'.,).1.'....-.-. ""1-----..~----~ '" '...... '"/ --- ....-- - --:-"'f"" ... . , . . , . ., I ' , 'I'Ll' , tir':"t" . " : ,'., : ~, . ':'1 ' ';, ,I." C] C; . , . . ' " .' .- / / >'1 1 'I' '---.-- --. #2 page 18 opportunity to fail or succeed like everyone else. ) don't know how-) assume we could put a plan together but) am not sure what it would all mean. Rutledge/ Actually these would not be just like anyone else who is buying a house. These are people who are coming from fragile financial situations and the experience of other federally insured mortgages. For example il1 the HUD Programs and the Farmers Home Programs, they have found that they-to make these program work they have to have loan servicing. Atkins! ) understand that but at the very least if the house reverts back to the feds and becomes available to another family. The family may be lost in the shuffle but ) don't know how you cover thaI. How do you cover that contingency. It is not any different if they would pack up and move out and walk away from it as an obligation. Rutledge! ) think there would be a number of things that you could do. For example you could provide loan servicing mechanisms CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 93-64 SIDE 2 Rutledge! I also agree with your comment that you can't have a final plan. There is no such thing as a final plan. You have to have flexibility. Some thing's by nature are fluid. There is a line somewhere between having a collection of thoughts and having a plan and ) don't think we have crossed it yet. Horow! From my point of view) think you are talking more about guidelines rather than a plan because I think guidelines kind of help you implement the program and when I look at the services that are coming out of the Neighborhood Center. Teaching people how to live in an apartment or a home. I think this city probably has the germ of very good support systems that would work with these people. There are still going to be people who, as you say, fail. Rutledge/You cannot manage what you don't have and if you don't have enough money no mailer how good a manger you are you may not have any choice. Horow! Which is getting back to the selection criteria. Atkins! What happens to the family who finds itself who had not gone through the system and suddenly finds themselves in these dire circumstances. What do we do for them. .. --...---."....-.... . - I: , I i' , , " , , i;i d I, I! I:: . (" i: 'il'- ,I ;1 if II I ~II . J , I' :; i J.i I: I', '.t " , , -Ii I, j I ) I I ;'/, , ! ' ;1 , , , I i , ) , ' \\. ""If". I 1 ......... .- ..,.." '1-----..-:,----~.... \.6 1It~.'..... '/ I ,", " -,'~ ,',', /' , - :1 ,I LI . ,t~/ ;4l' "":, " . , " I' , ' " ': .' " 'N " ',', , ~. '_~ .' /" ' / , / /'~ ' ", " , . ". '-'- -~ -~ -~--. '--. #2 page 19 Rutledge! Well, a number of things could be done. We could start some networking with the Community Reinvestment Act with banks in the area and so forth. Atkins! Tbat is fine. So the circumstances are not any different. So we can do all of those things anyway. Rutledge! Oh, those people would never get houses. They would- Atkins! I don't know where you draw the line to decide. You could have someone go through the system and secure a home, be in it and fail. You could have someone not being in the system, own a borne and fail. Where does our obligation begin and end in these circumstances and I don't have an answer for you. Nov! If we have a second mortgage we will have some obligation to help. Atkins! If you are a participant and ownership of a property that is true. But the same person who owns a home and fails and ends up having to go into some sort of voucher or certificate or whatever because of a failure and they were not a participant in the system, they are just as much in need as the other one as far as I am concerned. Nov! I am still not sure if we are going to sell this out right or if we are going to maintain some section of ownership and therefore it is an obligation. Kubby! It is probably a question for Ron. Atkins! But the market is going to dictate that. We found when we did Sycamore we had to take the second mortgage, the silent second mortgage position to satisfy the banks who - Kubby! It matters where the lots are that are improved and what the cost are at the time. Atkins! All fo those things are subject to variables that we can't even pretent to control them. Nov! I don't think we can control these but I think that we have had some experience in selling houses because we have moved houses. Because we have sold them. Because we have developed covenants for those sales. I think we have a little bit better experience today than when we did it at the time that CHAS was written. Atkins! I alsi think there is an element of risk. That as a city council if you approve participation in this you are taking an element of risk. How far do you extend that risk. Again, I don't have the answers to this for you tonight. I I , ; l If " 'I, I' i:, I.: , , (! .:i I !I I, , , 1.; , (I " I , , , ; , , i , ," ,I ----~---------- ~". ........- ~ "'----.....--: --'"W\...... ~ ..-'......! ~~ ...- - ~-,.:-- -f.... .... . . -" \.... P. , , ' ':~':.,,:II_' U', 'Ct, .Id _,:. ., ,. ,,"", .: I -, _ . \ I, r~r . ~, .,b.: " /' '. ," . / I /."- , '1 I. ...... n__.... -.-'-..-- #2 page 20 Rutledge! My question for you then is when would you think some kind of guideline or plan would be developed that would answer some of these questions. At what stage in your deliberation would that be. Horow! I would say that is something that the Housing Authority would have to start working on now. As soon as they submit.if after the p,h. we approve this, I would say we would have to do it as soon- Rutledge! I would just say that as someone who might comment at p.h. it is difficult to know what to comment on if one does not know what the program is. Atkins! We are commenting on a federal program which is in my mind sort of being handed to us. Not any different than the CDBO Program. CCN makes their comments on what is handed to you. You don't have the flexibility to kind of change the rules as much as you would like to. As much as you would like to, federal and state programs which are traditionally handed to us and the extend of any other policy implications are really very discretionary. CCN has traditionally said that a substantial portion of or block grant money will be used for housing rehab. Then you all debated just recently over some housing program which is all well and good. The basis thrust of the program did not change. If you were to approve this and I guess I would ask a question to Ron and Doug would be-it would be more of a direction. Do we need to outline some general guidelines. Yeah I think we can answer some of those questions. I am not so sure you are going to get the hard and fast answers that a lot of folks might want. Kubby! This is really difficult for me because there are two values that I hold that could potentially be in conflict with the program. One is to have lower income people owning their homes and the other is to make sure that we have enough affordable rental housing and public rental housing and if tlds application is approved tonight and if we get the money, I would really push that we build first and then sell so that at no time do we have a decrease in the amount of public housing. So, if as we build a couple of units, we get people prepared and then it gives us more time to prepare people and get them connected with Life Skills if we need to., Atkins! The spirit of your policy position is fine. But there still runs a very real potential that practically that there could be a - Ull ------- t i I, I I Ii I " il: I: II ( " " ~ I '1:\' : II I" F, I, ',i \ , , i: :1 I i !I ii i , I i ': \,1 . , ~ ' " ( , "I ./' "-f 1- , , ' " . . , '--'" , . " ,:1, I ' ,-,. - t " , ,', . , ' , ':' .:' -, '., '--', '''-, ,', . / /, ::/ " \.' t,. '-- . ~---- #2 page 21 period of time-If that is the hard and fast rule I just don't we can deliver on for you. Kubbyl I don't understand why we couldn't do that. We are the ones who are going to be building the housing so why can't we just not sign the papers to sell until the other units are built. Atkinsl Because of opportunity costs. Opportunities that will occur during the course of this process that you will choose to take advantage of and those that you will ignore. And those opportunities won't come at the same time of building and selling and building and selling and building and selling at the same time. Kubbyl I would rather have more than less so that we just wait-I haven't even seen what are the criteria for the people. Atkinsl I think the spirit of this legislation is to do that. I think arriving at it is where we are having the dispute. The inte~t is there. The intent is there. However, getting there. Courtneyl What we are talking about is at anyone given time is 20 rental units that could be taken off waiting for construction to happen. That is the maximum. Hendersonl The maximum is 20. Boothroy/We only have 20 replacements so we are talking about the maximum of 20, Courtneyl At any point in time. And realistically you may be talking one or two at a time. You won't be hitting 20. That is almost inconceivable to have 20 of them sold before we get any built. Boothroyl I think that is inconceivable. Courtneyl So maybe 4, 5, 6. That is not a dramatic impact on the rental stock in this town. Kubbyl If you are talking three or four bedrooms of people who would accept vouchers and certificates, yes. Courtneyl It is not a dramatic percentage impact on the rental stock in this town. Kubbyl The rental stock that is available to families with these kind of incomes, yes, five units of three or four bedrooms is substantial. Boothroyl Ultimately it is your decision on the sales. So if your policy is to go ahead and start construction and that is allowed under the guidelines, the decision to make that sale and to consummate that sale with a person that wants to buy a public housirlg until you will have to weigh this whole argument that you are making right now. Maybe there is a 30 day window. 1,,0 . "" ---...---- I I ! , I i I /, Iii , Ii II I I If I.: ;;, f: :;1 , I' i I I I,J ! ii, fII..', , ,/ I ;~ , 1--.1 , , (,' ,: "I : ,u .,,-,," I~/; , '" ':' "" ' - .1 " 1 u , " "", '.",' ~ ", -) I / , " c' '1 , ......-~-_...- #2 page 22 Maybe for 30 days you have one unit off the market. Maybe 60 days. Those are the things that will have to come up at the time you decide to do it. But it is your decision each time. Ambr! Where are we on the motion. Do we have a motion on the floor. Nov! We have on the consent calendar. I have one more question here. I am not sure if it is yours or Linda's. How is this fitting in legally to set a p.h. an approve a resolution within the same motion. We usually not approve resolutions until after a p.h. is held. What we are doing now is scheduling a p.h. and approving a resolution. Gentry!The resolution does not require a p.h. The one that does require a p.h. we are setting a p.h. on. And each one of your votes will be recorded to Marian. Boothroy! This is the first time we have had the p.h. prior to acting on the resolution. Henderson! The application to HUD that would take- Nov! We are acting on the resolution. Boothroy! We are acting on them at the same time. Nonnally, the last ten years that I have been here, we Ilave the resolution first and the p.h. second. Nov! That is what we are doing. We are having the p.h. two weeks away. Henderson! Under the Iowa Code. Courtney! The tlling is the feds told us that is what we had to do. Boothroy! It is a question of timing. Henderson! Under the Iowa Code 403a it requires the city council or housing authority to hold a p.h. prior to undertaking a project and the undertaking of project should be understand as to be putting concrete things down. Like we are going to have 15 houses. We are going to build in such and such configuration. Something more concrete than just what we are doing tonight. That is under the Iowa Code. Now we talk about the HUD application. Lets talk about something separate. HUD doesn't require you to have a p.h. The Iowa Code does. What HUD was doing, they usurp the Iowa Code and said last time, they said that okay, we don't accept your application because you didn't have a p.h. So what HUD was doing was enforcing a public law for the State of Iowa that is only applied to the people in the Stale of Iowa and wasn't the application of our own law to ourselves. HUD tried to do that in order to restrict our , ,~~ -'-'~" '-.-. ) i i I I 1 i I I ! ! " I I i I , I i i 1 1 1 ! , ~ t i :1 i ! I, I' 'Ii Ii Ii 1 :1 :: " ~' il I' )1. ;i. i I, , ( ,'; .1:: . p I I I i i [ "I I } I, I; I;, Ii' " i Ii applications. What we asked HUn was why is that possihle and then we found out from the attorney general's opinion that those are actually two separate issues. You make an application to Hun but you determine whether or not you want to go ahead with a housing project after you have the p.h. And what our argument was without HUn money there is no going forward with any kind of project. [mean if you passed this and said let's sell all of the public housing and let us apply for [00 units and all the rest of it and HUn came back and said we are only going to give you five, that is your reality. You know. So, [ think we get confused about applications and p,h.s. Puhlic hearings are required by the state law for us to undertake a housing project. Our application to Hun is an attempt to get Hun money to do the housing project that you would have in your p.h. And only Hun muddled that. Nov! The way this is written is that we are setting a p.h. to approve an application or rather to approve two applications. Henderson! Which concern projects, right. Kubby! The application, not the project. Gentry! The p.h. is required for the project and so the anomaly of this whole thing is the project is way down the road and we are going to have the p.h. in August. You know, ordinarily [ say the law makes sense. [n this case it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Prior opinion from Hun was exactly that we had to have the p.h. even before we apply which the AG said was wrong. Atkins! The bottom line is that if we don't do this you don't get any money. Nov! But we are applying and then we are having the p.h. on the application two weeks later. Gentry! Really it fits under the statute as prior to a project which is way down the road. Kubby! [s it possible at this point to under Bl the actual application to separate the two applications. Are the applications really melted together. [s it two applications. Henderson! There could be four public hearings, basically. Kubby! What I am interested in doing is to separate the replacement and the new construction. Boothroy! At the public hearing time. Kubby! Tonight with this resolution. Ambr! Mr. Mayor, I call the question. -"':.~""'IIIf""~ -.--", ---.... ""-- ~~~-r -- -..-" ....------~':--f....- ...-....... '. '.' , ," .' " , . ,,- -.. . ; - ,II I 4,./" Ll',':' :t t, " , ' -;::-: "', , " , " /, t: . t , ' ': .,.... -' , ~, - / / , >\J '. r ..... ----- - #2 page 23 ','I I , I , ,~ ," . ,"'~'- , i ' \! ,,4 "'" .. -_.~,,-. -~-"'" --'-. I " , i , i, '. 1 'II I ,I I :1 ' il it: :: II~, 1\ ~ L , : I ~ J ,1,'- 1': I I': " " ! , I I il ,', il ~"I , . I, 1 ,-,',.' I :f' ,'I i' \.' ,; , I I \ I \ /,...;,.,',....,--,... ~' Ii" ' . .' I . , .' -, !I,I, , LI, tq' ' '/~t ' ,'. ,," ,r ' . 1- .' -. -,..' " / ,'" ~\ " 1 ~ { ..........------- "- I I #2 page 24 Courtney! The question has been called. Nov! I think this should not have been a consent calendar. I think this should have been two different votes. Ambr! It is there. Gentry! (can't hear) Kubby! The answer is no. Gentry! The answer is no. Kubby! The answer is maybe, maybe. Gentry! Can you get it tomorrow and change it. Karr We can get it but I don't know what their deadline is for getting it back to them to print it a 9 o'clock tomorrow morning. I can pull it. Whether I can amend it to put it back in to give it your 15 days by August 3. Nov! Probably not. Karr! That was the whole point of having the meeting today to put in tomorrow. Horow! I second the motion. Courtney! The question has been called and seconded. Karr! Is it a call for the question or a new motion. Courtney! No. It is a call for the question. What do we go to, a roll call. Karr! No. It is just a motion-you have got a motion for the call for the question. Courtney! All in favor (ayes), opposed (aye-Kubby). The question has been called. Back to the original motion. Roll call- Consent calendar is adopted. Kubby! I would really appreciate council's patience when we are asking a process question. To be able to finish. To get the answer to the question before the motion to call the question is seconded is done. It just would be a courtesy to have the answer to the question before that. Horow! I did the second so I felt that we had that answer. Kubby! But it was already seconded by someone else. Courtney! No. Hers was the second. Horow! I was the only second and I did not do that until ascertained- Nov! The basic answer was do it this way or you can't apply for money- and at that point Sue seconded it. Courtney! Entertain a motion for adjournment at the formal meeting. Moved and seconded- i I I \ i I Ii I 11 ! II - il. ri r ":,,,!,~ ,) I'. ,( I;:' i (: q -'. i, ,'i:' j 1,',1. :/ , !.' II ! !, . !'