HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-06-05 Transcription
#2
ITEM 2
Wilburn:
Karr:
Reagan:
Wilburn:
Reagan:
Wilburn:
Page I
PROCLAMATIONS.
a) Arc of Johnson County Month: June 2007
(reads proclamation)
Here to accept the proclamation is Bill Reagan, Executive Director.
( applause)
Mayor and City Council, and especially to the citizens of Iowa City, on
behalf of the 300 plus children and adults that we serve at the ARC of
Johnson County, I would just like to give you a heartfelt thank you. Iowa
City is just such a wonderful community to live, learn, work, and play in,
and I think that's true for all of us, and I know it's true for all of the clients
who we serve. It's a very inclusive and welcoming community, and we
genuinely appreciate the support, and I accept this proclamation on behalf
of our clients, employees, and staff. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Bill, and I hope that new space is working out for you.
It's just wonderful! We have been located and operate in Iowa City this
entire 50 years.. . and we did just purchase a new building on Muscatine
Avenue, so we look forward to another 50 years. Thank you.
Thank you. (applause)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council meeting of June 5, 2007.
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ITEM 3
Hennessy:
Wilburn:
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PRESENTATION.
a) Public Library Friends Foundation
Mr. Mayor, Members of City Council, good evening. My name is Colin
Hennessy and I'm the President ofthe Board of Directors for the Iowa
City Public Library Friends Foundation. This evening it is my pleasure to
present this check, in this envelope, for $100,000 - the fourth payment in
our pledge of $1 million for helping the Library extension and remodeling
project that was completed in 2004. Tonight this now brings our total up
to $800,000. We look forward to returning again next year for another
payment, and fulfilling our pledge of that $1 million in 2009. Weare very
thankful for your continued support of the Library, and I'm pleased to
report that this month, Library circulation and usership is up 9% over what
it was last year. So, thank you very much for your continued support of
the Library.
Thank you. (applause) Really appreciate the tremendous work that the
Friends Foundation does and the support that the community provides to
the Library Foundation. Few of us were over at the Library this morning,
welcoming the Library Bus downtown and even just waiting for the kids
to get there, with their children. There was all kinds of traffic in the way
of the cameras and things like that. So it's good to see people supporting
the Library in such a strong, strong fashion.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council meeting of June 5, 2007.
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ITEM 5
COMMUNITY COMMENT (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Wilburn:
This is the time that's reserved for the public to address the Council on
items that do not appear on tonight's agenda. If you wish to address the
Council, please step forward to the podium, state your name for the
record, and please limit your comments to five minutes or less, and just as
a reminder, this is community comment. Council cannot have extensive
discussion on items that you may bring up, because we've not given
adequate notice to meet open records, open meetings law.
Cox:
My name is Monte Cox. I'm the promoter ofthe "fight night" at the
Union Bar and lots of other shows and stuff around the country. Urn,
we...I came yesterday to listen to some of the concerns and stuff, and I
just wanted to fill in some of the blanks and the things that weren't said, to
kind of let you know what is actually going on. The Police Chief, I was
very pleased, he gave a very fair accounting of what he saw and stuff, and
from stepping in and just watching, I think that's probably all that he could
have seen, but there's a lot more that goes on and there's a lot more
purpose to why we're doing the shows. It's not just a development thing
for me to find fighters for me to manage down the road and such. What
we do is we go to cities and we try to provide for the mixed martial artist a
place for the amateurs to compete. Right now there is no such place. The
State of Iowa has refused to regulate it. I tried bills twice, urn, and both
times the Senate and House have refused because there's no money for
them to regulate the amateur sport. The professional sport that's regulated
in Iowa is done so because I wrote the law nine years ago, along with the
Athletic Commission, and started the sport, and we've enjoyed nine years
of doing the professional mixed martial arts in Iowa. We're the third
longest state in the country. Now there's forty some states that do it. We
were definitely beyond our time, before our time. At the Union Bar, what
we're trying to do is we take the guys who are training in Jujitsu schools
around the area, not just in Iowa City, but Cedar Rapids, Des Moines, etc.,
and we try and give them a way to come and compete, to...in front of
people, do something that they want to do. It's a, it's a legal, a legal deal.
I mean, we're...I work with the Athletic Commission closely. Urn, we've
had some differences of what an amateur and pro is, but we've seemed to
have worked those out. We're very open to doing whatever is necessary
to accommodate concerns and such. Urn, we do take experience and
things into consideration. What was said last night, yesterday, was
incorrect. When the guys come up, first of all we meet them before they
go into the bar. They sign up and they decide what event they want to do.
If they want to just do kickboxing or boxing, that's for the less
experienced people. Those are easy. They have to wear headgear,
mouthpieces, giant 16-ounce gloves - they're protected in that way. They
only have to fight for a minute. The more experienced people, they can do
the mixed martial arts, and we give them questions: where do you train?
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You know, how do you get out of a triangle choke? If.. .if we can catch
people, so we try our best. We don't want anybody getting hurt. We're
businessmen. You know, this is what we do. If somebody gets hurt, it
looks bad on us and we usually end up up here, but you know, this is the
first time that I've ever ended up up here before anything's gone wrong,
and.. .or anything has, you know, has been upsetting. We've done ten
weeks of, at the Union Bar, with no problems. We haven't had any fights
spill out into the street, at all. We haven't had anything happen inside the
bar. The Police Chief said that himself. So far we've done nothing
wrong. We showed up. We did everything according to the law. We've
done every precaution that we thought was necessary to make sure that
these guys are taken care of. There is a nurse on hand also at all times.
Every fighter gets a physical before they go in. If there's anything wrong,
they're out. We do take down, like I said, their experience. Ifthey're...if
one person says, 'Yeah, this is my fifth time doing it,' and another person
says, 'I haven't done this yet,' we won't pair them together. You know,
there's lots of times that people sign up and don't get to compete because
we don't have a match. Again, we're in the business of entertainment.
We're in the business of sports. It doesn't do us any good to have a 30-
second fight. All right? And this sport, as the Police Chief said, is huge.
I was just in Sports Illustrated last week. The.. .my fighter was on the
cover. The, you know, it's on ESPN now. It's on pay-per-view. This is a
giant sport that's going forward. If...I mean, some people don't like it. A
lot of people don't like boxing, but that's why we do it behind closed
doors. We don't do it out in the open where someone could be offended.
You have to pay money to come see it. If you don't want to come see it,
don't come! We're...it's fine with us, but there are hundreds and
hundreds of people - we've done over 600 in one night - that do want to
see it in Iowa City. They come, they watch the fights. They're.. .you
know, we have good security. I just don't understand the concern when
everything is going well, we haven't done anything, anything wrong. And
I, you talked about splitting it with the alcohol, and you know, sports and
alcohol, you know, I mean those are things that do go together. Every pro
fight, every pro football game, every.. . every sport, you know. You take
away the alcohol and what happens is it makes the venue that we're going
to, they can't afford to have us there. That's how they make their money.
Now, it's their job to make sure that these people don't drink and fight. If
we need to breathalyzer those people, we'll do it. I've never had to do that
before, but fine. We're not saying we won't do anything. We'll do
whatever it takes, but 1. . .I hate to not be able to do this in Iowa City
because that leaves all of your fighters who train here nowhere to go. You
know? I am the only thing and I do all the different cities in Iowa.
There's not too many places to go for these guys. So, I hope you didn't
already make up your minds on this and will have an open mind and you
know, consider that we have a lot of Iowans here that are working this, not
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council meeting of June 5, 2007.
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only the bar. It's the bar's most successful night. All of my workers who
work the shows, this is how they make their living. So.. .thank you.
Wilburn: Thank you.
Gustaveson: Good evening. My name's Craig Gustaveson. I'm the President of the
Downtown Association. I have two issues I'd like to discuss with you
tonight. The first one is one we've talked about before, the taxi stand
issue. Urn, and I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this. You know our
stand on it, uh, we do.. .would like to see it rescinded. As our letter
indicated, it just seems a little unjust when we have businesses downtown
that's paid a lot of money on taxes and promote the downtown through
contributions to Summer of the Arts, the Englert, uh, spend thousands of
dollars a year promoting downtown, and yet we're giving some of the
most prime parking places away to somebody that, at least in my.. .best of
my knowledge, don't contribute to those things, and we just feel like these
parking places are better used by patrons of these businesses that are
trying to make a livelihood downtown and we just feel like those better
used to the patrons of those businesses. So if, we would like to see it
completely rescinded. If you chose not to, we'd at least like to see you
move the date up, or the time up, to a later date to more, around 10:00 or
later, when most of the people that are coming downtown as families and
people that are dining, uh, have used those spaces, and we feel like the
taxis are more used for late-night goers to the bars and restaurants, urn,
like I said, we're not anti-taxi. We're just a little bit more pro-downtown
business. If you do go to the 10:00, the one thing we would like to discuss
with you is better signage. We would like to, as the Downtown
Association, sit down with either members of the City Council, staff, and
administration and talk about ways we think would be better to sign these
things so when people do come down that they are aware that they are taxi
stands after 10:00. Uh, one of our main objectives, we don't think it was
very well publicized, the way it was signed, urn, just putting up another
sign in place of the other one, people didn't realize, you know, if they've
been parking there for the last twenty years and they come down in the
evening and they park again, all of a sudden they get ticketed or get towed
and they're going, 'Why?' So we would like to discuss that. I think one
of the hardest things for any of us to do, whether we're City Council,
business owners, or whoever, is to step back and see things through other
peoples' eyes. So for just a minute, I'd like to have you quit thinking as
City Councilors and think as a consumer. Coming downtown Iowa City,
you're going down Iowa Avenue or Washington. 7:00 at night, you're
going to go to your favorite eatery and you see six parking places open,
and there's nobody there. And my first question I would say, 'Why?'
You know? If the taxi stands aren't being used, why can't I park there?
And I think your intentions were good. I really do. 1.. .we agree with it,
we need to make it safer for people to be using taxis late at night. We just
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council meeting of June 5, 2007.
#5
Wilburn:
Porter:
Page 6
don't feel like at 5:00 to 10:00 is the best issue, or the best time to be used.
Urn, the second thing 1'd like to talk to you about is another Downtown
Association issue. This year we've really gone out of our way to be more
inclusive in our downtown promotions. We have sidewalk sales coming
up in July, and we really reached out to all ofIowa City. The Old Capital
Town Center, Sycamore Mall, Gateway One, and even some of the other
businesses that are on First Avenue, urn, Paul's Discount, to include them
all in our sidewalk sales this year, and for the first time in over twenty
years, we've got a cooperation between all of these places of business and
we're going to do it all on one weekend. Now to do this, the malls have
always done theirs on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. The Downtown
Association's always done ours on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. So to
accommodate everybody, we need to expand it to a four-day event.
Thursday through Sunday. The current ordinance says we have six days
we can use for sidewalk sales. Uh, and currently it's been used three and
three. What we're asking the City Council to do is expand it to eight days,
four and four. We do our sidewalk sales in July and then we also do a
student sidewalk sale in September, and to, in the event that we would do
this with the other shopping districts, we would like to have the eight days
total. So we would like you to look at that ordinance and accommodate
us. We're really working hard trying to be inclusive with other areas.
We've gotten a great support from everybody, and we would like to have
the City support us on this also. Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi, Mike Porter, Coralville, Iowa. I would like to go further with what
Craig was just talking about on the taxi stands. Urn, I purposely drove
around downtown before I came down here, and there are exactly zero
taxis in those fifteen spots. Urn, I came down here purposely to eat dinner
at Takanami last Sunday evening. It was about the same time, 7:00, 7:30
at night. There were exactly zero taxis in all those spots. There were two
taxis, however, parked in metered spots in front of the Sports Column.
Urn, they're just not being used. Urn, the one in front of Iowa Book, urn,
which is on Iowa Avenue there, I've never seen one in that spot. Urn, I
don't think the 10:00 provision is going to work, because there's eleven
taxi companies, and it's a cutthroat business. The taxis fight for fares
downtown. They pull up in front of the Summit, or in front of One Eyed
Jakes, and wait for fares. If they're sitting over in front ofIowa Book,
they ain't going to get that fare. It's real cut rate. So what I would like to
ask of you is to put this on a work session, pretty soon, and talk about this,
because I don't see a lot of support for these taxis anywhere. It's
just.. .they're just not being used, and we're sitting at the.. .at the Summit
right now, I think there's fifteen or twenty tables. Atlas was full on
twenty-six. All these restaurants are real busy downtown right now, and
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council meeting of June 5, 2007.
#5
Wilburn:
Karr:
Wilburn:
Porter:
Wilburn:
Page 7
there's less parking spaces for our customers. So, if you would consider
adding that to a work session, we'd greatly appreciate it.
Just for your information and for the benefit of the viewing public, at last
night's work session, this item was brought up in response to a letter that
was sent. The Council reiterated that it wanted to take a look by
observation and hearing from our parking folks about how the spaces are,
or are not being used, by observation. We set, it will be a change in
ordinance, which could be done with expediting over two meetings, and so
we were looking at, if it were to be amended or repealed by the August
meeting, to have that done. This was a position, we put a timetable to it,
but we had discussed at a prior meeting, where Mr. Gustaveson from the
Downtown Association, addressed this concern with the Council and at
that time, we had also informed him that we would take a look, we were
going to be taking a look at this. So, it will be at a, uh, upcoming work
session, most likely in July.
June 18th work session, you asked for a report so that you could give staff
direction for the July meeting schedule.
Okay. All right.
Thank you.
Would anyone else care to address the Council on an item that does not
appear on tonight's agenda?
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ITEM 6
PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
d) AUTHORIZING CONVEYANCE OF A VACATED SIX-FOOT
(6') WIDE PORTION OF RIGHT-OF-WAY LOCATED ALONG
HOLL YWOOD BOULEVARD SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 6 AND
EAST OF BROADWAY STREET TO NORDSTROM OIL
COMPANY.
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Wilburn:
This is a public hearing. (pounds gavel) Public hearing is open. (pounds
gavel) Public hearing is closed.
2. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION
O'Donnell: Move the resolution.
Wilburn: Moved by O'Donnell.
Champion: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Champion. Discussion?
Correia: I'm wondering if there might be some interest. I know this is a sale that
will bring in $14,000 of unexpected income into the City for some purpose
related to either affordable housing or services to persons that are low-
Income.
Bailey: How would we do that, if we wanted to do something like that?
Atkins: Can you hold that thought just one second.
Bailey: Sure.
Atkins: Because we have a line item in our General Fund Budget for.. .that is
intended for us to record such purchases, or such sales, as these things. It
would seem to me that you could set up a trust account whereby you just
simply declare that $14,455 is hereby set aside for, and then state the
purpose. I mean, that can be done, but we do have a line item in our
General Fund that records these types of sales.
Vanderhoef: And am I not correct that Miscellaneous Sales go into General Fund, and
we budget for a certain average kind of number every year.
Atkins: Yes, we do.
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Council meeting of June 5, 2007.
~ P~9
Vanderhoef: So it would be taking away from something else. I'm still not interested in
going forward at this time with the private, with a separate foundation
thing because we haven't gotten our housing report, and then looked at
how we can implement whatever might come out of that report.
So. . . (several talking at once). . .
Correia: I mean, I think that I was also opening up the opportunity, there...in the
community, there is a Children's Initiative, urn, that has.. . accepts
donations for scholarships for youth who may be homeless or otherwise at
need and can't afford things like, urn, registration for Babe Ruth softball,
or boys' baseball, or help to purchase the sports equipment so they can
participate in a soccer league, and I know that those funds are very low
right now, and so given that these are funds that are coming at the end of
the fiscal year, or towards the end of the fiscal year, wondering where we
were on our projection of the type of income that, Dee, you were talking
about, even if we took $6,000 - half of this - and donated this to the
Children's Initiative. I think that that will go a long way.
Champion: We still have money in our agency fund, if somebody wanted (several
talking at once).. . somebody wanted to approach us as a possibility with
that. We didn't spend all of that money, did we, Regenia? We have
some...
Bailey: Last fiscal year is hard for me to remember.
Champion: I know! (laughter) I think the (several talking at once).
Correia: Our contingency is $13,000 for Fiscal Year 07. I don't know where we
are.
Atkins: That sounds about right. I don't have that...
Correia: I guess I'm requesting that.. .
Vanderhoef: No, that's a good idea, though, ifthere is money left in that contingency.
Champion: We do have money left in that. The other thing, though, I think putting
that money in a little trust fund of some kind is not a bad idea because
when we get our housing study, one of the. . .one of the problems, and Dee,
you brought it up, about moving low income families into older homes
and rehabbing them is a problem with lead abatement, when you use
federal funds. Urn, so I wouldn't mind putting that money into a little
trust fund so that when we get our housing study, we may be able to
recycle some of our older houses and make the neighborhoods more
mixed than they are. So, I'm...I agree with Amy, I'm in favor of putting it
in a little trust fund.
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#6 Page 10
Correia: To give us a kick-start for when we get that. ..
Champion: Right, because that's a small amount of money, but yet it's, it could be a
big amount of money in a situation, but I think if somebody wants money
for a charitable cause, they need to approach the Council for the agency
contingency.
Elliott: I agree with everything you said being very worthwhile, but I'm not in
favor of earmarking or tagging any funds. I think they should all go into a
General Fund and when staff and Council meet to put together the next
budget, they should have access to funds to be used wherever at that time
they're deemed to have the highest priorities. So, I'd not be in favor of
putting it anywhere but in the General Fund.
Wilburn: Before we go further, if someone wanted to associate with this item, if
someone wanted to, urn, take such action as to designating where this
money goes, would they do that by offering amendment to.. .no? (unable
to hear)
Dilkes: .. . direction to Steve.
Wilburn: Okay. Urn, and.. . and Amy, you threw in a couple things in there. You
said for housing, for other services. It would be helpful for me, uh, in
deciding whether I could be part of giving that direction, if you could say
one or the other or both.. . okay. I work for an organization that helps
administer the Children's Fund that she's discussing.
Correia: For housing, I mean that's my first.
Wilburn: Okay.
Correia: (unable to hear) .. .so ifthere's a fourth person.
Wilburn: So, Amy, Connie, urn, I would be willing. . . was there a fourth one
for.. .and Regenia.
Atkins: So I understand, 1'11 confirm this right now that the $14,000 is to be in a
Housing Services Trust Account, or something such as that. (several
talking at once)
Champion: A line item in the budget, or whatever.
Atkins: And a separate, you want it as a separate line item for the future?
Champion: Oh, I don't know. However you want to do it.
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Atkins: Most important thing is recording it by memorandum so that. ..
Champion: Okay.
Correia: It'll be recorded and then pulled over into the next...
Atkins: It's only spent down on your authorization.
Correia: Gotcha. Great! Thank you.
Wilburn: Urn, did I close the public hearing? Okay. Any further discussion on this
item? Roll call.
Elliott: Okay. Ifwe vote.. .I'm not in favor of the use of the money designated to
a particular fund so I'm voting no.
Wilburn: Item carries 6-1...
Elliott: Elliott.
Wilburn: Elliott, thank you (laughter). I keep.. .I'm going to call you Regenia one
of these days!
Elliott: Remember, 1948, most valuable player!
Wilburn: Okay.
Vanderhoef: You were?
Elliott: With the Boston Braves.
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#6 Page 12
ITEM 6 PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
e) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE REZONING APPROXIMATELY
14.5 ACRES FROM HEAVY INDUSTRIAL (1-2) TO GENERAL
INDUSTRIAL (1-1) AND REZONING APPROXIMATELY 36.65
ACRES TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT
OVERLAY/GENERAL INDUSTRIAL (OPD/I-l) AND
APPROVING A SENSITIVE AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN
FOR PROPERTY LOCATED NORTH OF IZAAK W ALTON
ROAD EAST OF OAKCREST HILL ROAD. (REZ07-00004)
(SECOND CONSIDERATION)
O'Donnell: Move second consideration.
Wilburn: Moved by...
Bailey: I was going to expedite.
O'Donnell: I withdraw.
Bailey: I move that the rule requiring that ordinances must be considered and
voted on for passage at two Council meetings prior to the meeting at
which it is to be finally passed be suspended, that the second consideration
and vote be waived, and the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this
time.
O'Donnell: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey, seconded by O'Donnell to expedite. Should I ask for
any.. .
Dilkes: We can do it next.
Wilburn: Okay, all right. Urn, roll call. Uh, carries 7-0.
Bailey: I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time.
Champion: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey, seconded by Champion. Discussion? And, if anyone
has, had any Ex Parte communications associated with this item, now
would be a time to disclose those.
Correia: Karin, in terms of the sensitive areas, the filling and mitigations of the
wetlands, urn, who.. .they're working with the DNA. I mean, who's going
to be...
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Franklin: DNR.
Correia: DNR (laughter).
Franklin: I knew what ya meant, but I had to call you on it! (laughter) And the
Corps.
Correia: And the.. . okay, the Army Corps of Engineers to make sure that
everything is done the way it's supposed to be done and all that.
Franklin: Yes.
Correia: And is there ongoing maintenance?
Franklin: There's ongoing monitoring.
Correia: Monitoring?
Franklin: Yes.
Correia: And they'll be doing that as well?
Franklin: Yes.
Correia: Okay.
Franklin: And we'll be getting a report.
Correia: Okay. Thank you.
Wilburn: Further discussion? Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Vanderhoef: So moved.
Bailey: So moved.
Wilburn: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Bailey to accept correspondence. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign. Carries 7-0.
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#7
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ITEM 7
APPROVING PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF
CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE DURABLE
PAVEMENT MARKING PROJECT 2007, ESTABLISHING
AMOUNT OF BID SECURITY TO ACCOMPANY EACH BID,
DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH
ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS, AND FIXING TIME AND PLACE
FOR RECEIPT OF BIDS.
a) PUBLIC HEARING
Wilburn: This is a public hearing. (pounds gavel) Public hearing is open. This
project consists of painting durable pavement markings, crosswalks, and
railroad symbols on arterial streets on the east side of town and school
areas. The Engineer's estimate is $175,980.
Vanderhoef: Are we.. . excuse me.
Wilburn: (pounds gavel) Public hearing is closed.
b) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION
Bailey: Move the resolution.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey.
Champion: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Champion. Discussion?
Vanderhoef: Uh, just curious, on how well this new paint is holding up. Are we really
going to be able to put it on a cycle more than annually?
Davidson: We've had mixed results with the durable pavement marking program in
the past. It's very sensitive in terms of being applied properly and there
have been varying results based on how it has been applied. We have had
some warranty work, but the contractor has under those warranties. We
still think it's a really good idea because it's better than the regular paints
that we use in any measurement. We're still trying to perfect exactly what
we're doing, but I think particularly for the continental crosswalks,
because we've developed a way to, to put those down so that vehicles
don't run over them, it's when the vehicles run over them and you get the
sand and the salt in the street in the winter, it's like sandpaper. We're kind
of trying to perfect a system, but it's definitely better, Dee, than anything
we can do in-house, and so we clearly recommend continuing...
Vanderhoef: So we can see them better, but we don't necessarily get any longer life...
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Davidson: No, we're.. .by all means getting longer life. Now whether it's the full
three years that the product is warrantied for, that's where we've had the
mixed results, but it's by all means better than the annual paint that we use
with our regular program.
Vanderhoef: We save on staffing and pay it out in durable paint, but if it's safety, then
that's a positive.
Davidson: That's right.
Champion: Are we, is this going to include in the downtown area, the...
Davidson: I think we did the downtown last year, because that was the highest
priority. Yeah, so, we...
Champion: Crosswalks are really bad.
Davidson: Yeah, and we do check those and we make the contractor under the
warranty if need be.
Champion: I was.. .when you think about all the roads we build, why don't we put in
colored cement for lines?
Davidson: Actually, you will find, and you can see this with some of our crosswalks
downtown where we've used brick, that when you put them in, it's very
vivid, the contrast, but eventually everything just kind of grays down and
you get a lot of oil on it and dirt, and it just kind of all grays out. So... we
feel the durable pavement marking program is probably the best thing for
keeping them visible.
Champion: I hope somebody will look at that, Washington-Dubuque Street crosswalk.
Those lines are really bad.
Davidson: Wash-Dubuque intersection?
Champion: Urn, that's just an odd intersection. You know, the stoplight is ahead of
where they're supposed to stop, and I really would like to see some better
markings. Just have somebody look at it.
Davidson: We'll take a look at it.
Champion: Because I would like to see on those white lines, big cross lines in there. I
cross all the time. Somebody's going to run me over eventually!
(laughter and several talking at once)
Wilburn: Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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#8 Page 16
ITEM 8 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 1, CHAPTER 9-
3B OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF IOWA CITY, IOWA
AND AMENDING THE BOUNDARIES OF CERTAIN VOTING
PRECINCTS IN IOWA CITY TO REFLECT VARIOUS
BOUNDARY CHANGES TO THE CORPORATE LIMITS OF
IOWA CITY. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Champion: Move first consideration.
Bailey: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Champion, seconded by Bailey. Discussion?
Champion: And do we do this, or does the County do this? I thought this was a
County. . .
Karr: We do it.
Champion: We do it?
Karr: The Auditor does the elections. We do the paperwork leading up to that.
Champion: Oh. Is that your job, Marian?
Wilburn: Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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ITEM 9
Bailey:
Correia:
Wilburn:
Elliott:
Wilburn:
Bailey:
Correia:
Wilburn:
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CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 10 OF THE
CITY CODE, ENTITLED "USE OF PUBLIC WAYS AND
PROPERTY," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED, "COMMERCIAL USE OF
SIDEWALKS," SECTION 3, ENTITLED "USE FOR SIDEWALK
CAFES," TO PROVIDE AN EXCEPTION TO THE EIGHT (8)
FOOT UNOBSTRUCTED WALKWAY REQUIREMENT IN THE
CB2 AND CBS ZONES. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
I move that the rule requiring that ordinances must be considered and
voted on for passage at two Council meetings prior to the meeting at
which it is to be finally passed be suspended, that the second consideration
and vote be waived, and the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this
time.
Second.
Moved by Bailey, seconded by Correia. Discussion?
I like the idea of making sidewalk cafes more easy for restaurants to have.
I think many people really enjoy it, and I'm for making this as easy to do
as possible, while still maintaining some kind of integrity and safety.
Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time.
Second.
Moved by Bailey, seconded by Correia. Discussion? Roll call. Item
carries 7-0.
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ITEM 11 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK
TO ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE 2007
PCC PAVEMENT REHABILITATION PROJECT - BENTON
STREET.
Wilburn: Engineer's estimate was $275,000; Public Works and Engineering
recommend award the contract to Iowa Erosion Control of Victor, Iowa,
for $196,234.65.
Vanderhoef: Move the resolution.
Wilburn: Moved by Vanderhoef.
Champion: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Champion. Discussion?
Champion: I like these low prices we're getting.
Atkins: Contractors are hungry. Makes a difference.
Vanderhoef: Well, half of them came in lower than the estimate.
Atkins: Yep!
Wilburn: Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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ITEM 12
Wilburn:
Boothroy:
Jensen:
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AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE 7, ENTITLED FIRE
PREVENTION AND PROTECTION, AND TITLE 17, ENTITLED
BUILDING AND HOUSING TO ESTABLISH FIRE AND LIFE
SAFETY REQUIREMENTS FOR NEW AND EXISTING GROUP
A-2 AND B OCCUPANCIES.
a) PUBLIC DISCUSSION (CONTINUED FROM 4/16, 5/1, 5/14)
Weare continuing public discussion and Doug is going to give us a little
update walk-through.
In your packet was an information packet, a couple weeks ago was a
summary of the ordinance that's in your packet tonight. We did change
the ordinance to reflect the information that I sent out in the information
packet, which were some changes that we have come to agreement on, in
meeting with representatives of, of the businesses affected in the
downtown area with regard to these life safety improvements. One of the
things, before we get into the details of that where we agree, one of the
areas we did not agree, and I'd like to have us talk about that first, was
whether or not in addition to sprinklers, whether or not voice alarms
should be required, and urn, as I mentioned in the memorandum, Roger is
here to give you some information. We think it's important that at least
you understand what it is that we're talking about, what the benefits are,
and then we would like to have you make a decision regarding voice
alarms, decide it - vote it up or down - and then we can move on to the
other aspects of the ordinance, if that's what you, if you can agree with us
on that. So, first I'd like to have Roger get up here and talk a little bit
about voice alarms.
Mr. Mayor and Council, I have some prepared comments. As the Fire
Marshall for eleven years, I've had opportunity to observe from a
perspective of a Code Enforcement Officer, as well as an Origin and
Cause Investigator, and most recently doing additional research with
respect to crowd managers and the impact on, that that can have on fire
and life safety in assembly occupancies, and urn, taking that experience
and the research, I've condensed it into about a twelve-minute delivery. It
wasn't easy, but indulge me, please. I have about twelve minutes worth of
comments. On February 20, 2003, a fast-moving fire in the Station
nightclub fatally injured 100 employees and patrons, most of them
otherwise healthy, young adults out for a night of fun in West Warwick,
Rhode Island. This tragedy was a reminder of the enormous potential for
human loss in a high-occupancy property like those collectively described
as public assembly occupancy. Nationally, half of the twenty deadliest
fires in U.S. history involve public assembly properties. The twentieth
century has been marked with a new fire phenomenon - a single fire
killing a large number of people. In the past 45 years, the only fires on
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this deadliest list have been assembly fires and terrorist attacks. About
15,000 to 20,000 structure fires are reported in assembly properties every
year. Supported by dramatic media coverage, these fires have become
legendary for the inappropriate behavior of the occupants, the inadequacy
of the buildings and providing for a safe evacuation, and the potential for
such tragedies to happen again. Locally, our 114 group A-2 occupancies,
which account for .6% of all Iowa City parcels. That's 114 out of just
over 19,000 parcels. In the last ten years, our 114 A-2's accounted for
2.42% of our emergency incidents on the Iowa City Fire Department,
7.85% of all structure fires, and 22.44% of the estimated property loss
from fire. Fortunately, no life loss events to report in that ten-year history,
though we have had our near misses. Now, the following information that
I have to share regarding emergency voice communication systems and
human behavior in fire was taken from the following resources. First of
all, the National Fire Alarm Code; secondly, the 19th Edition of the NFPA,
National Fire Protection Association Handbook; 3rd Edition of the SFPE,
Society of Fire Protection Engineers Handbook of Fire Protection
Engineering; and numerous trade journal articles on emergency voice
communication systems, and nightclub fire safety. The primary cause of
death in assembly occupancy fires is delayed evacuation. As much as
three-quarters of the available evacuation time, time period between the
ignition of a fire and the onset of untenable conditions is wasted by
individuals trying to decide what to do. The sound of a standard fire alarm
in assembly occupancies is often met with indifference, by both the public
and staff. People tend to be skeptical, concluding that it's either a drill or
a false alarm. Despite constant efforts to educate the public as to the
meaning of a fire alarm signal, that is to say, fire alarm signal equals leave
immediately, this association is not automatic for every situation, and in
most public buildings, occupants interpretation of the fire alarm signal is
that something is happening, which is unlikely to be a fire, so we should
stay put and wait to see what happens. People do not want to overreact to
a fire alarm, or situation is already under control. Such avoidance or
acceptance of a dangerous situation often results in delays in starting
evacuation of a building, or in taking protective action. Response time
depends on the characteristics of occupants. People with disabilities, the
very young or very old, and those under the influence of alcohol or other
drugs may need more time to respond. Response time also depends on the
type of building that is on fire. A strange smell or sound of a smoke
detector alarm is sufficient to trigger actions by the residents. (TAPE
ENDS) Waiting for the Fire Department to arrive and assess the situation
before instructing occupants is not a good idea for two reasons. First,
when firefighters arrive, they expect all occupants to be in a safe location,
allowing them to focus on controlling the fire, instead of performing
search and rescue missions. Second, waiting the five to ten minutes it
takes for firefighters to arrive could prove lethal. For example, the delay
may eventually require occupants to move through smoke-filled areas, in
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an attempt to reach safety. Alcohol consumption may render patrons
unable to perform a normal exit. Response times will be slower,
movement may be uncoordinated, people will be less inclined to obey
instructions, the crowd may be more susceptible to panic, and patrons may
be hostile to emergency responders. So why install a fire alarm system?
Our current Fire and Building Codes minimally require standard fire alarm
systems in Group A occupancy buildings, with occupant loads greater than
300, and in all buildings equipped with an automatic fire sprinkler system.
A requirement to install an automatic fire sprinkler system will trigger a
requirement to install at least a basic fire alarm system. The primary
objective of a fire alarm signal is to notify occupants of a fire. Because
the sound level in nightclubs and bars may be as high as 110 decibels, the
Fire Alarm Code recommends eliminating background noise and
providing sufficient house lighting, automatically via the fire alarm
system. The second objective of a fire alarm signal is the expectation that
occupants will immediately react. The third objective is that, upon
hearing its signal, occupants will start evacuation. The final objective is
that the fire alarm activation will allow sufficient time for the occupants to
escape. When a fire alarm goes off in a public assembly building,
firefighters often observe upon arrival that most, if not all occupants, are
still in the building, continuing their activities and ignoring the fire alarm.
In this case, the life safety objectives of the fire alarm signal are not met.
This lack of occupant response could have tragic consequences in the
event of an actual fire. After the fire alarm actuation to warn occupants,
additional means to convey information will help initiate evacuation
movement, such as using a voice communication system. The NFP A
reports that research, and actual fires, demonstrate that receiving
information through a voice communication system is one of the best
ways to insure that occupants will react immediately. Occupants tend to
immediately obey instructions given through the voice communication
system. Staffmembers are regarded as knowledgeable. They are
expected to know what's going on, what the best course of action is, and
where the closest exit is. Patrons are more receptive to live messages
because they consider the information more likely to be genuine.
Messages should contain three essential types of information:
identification of the problem, location ofthe problem, and instructions.
It's been observed during evacuations that once occupants were notified of
the fire and decided to leave, they often turn to their neighbors or group to
discuss the best course of action. Communication among members of a
group is important to insure that everybody is accounted for, to decide
what to do, where to go, to confirm decisions with others, and so forth.
The presence of a standard fire alarm signal can make these essential
exchanges very difficult to achieve. Similarly, when dealing with large
spaces or with large crowds, it is not practical to rely entirely on staff to
direct occupants to safety, as the number of employees required might be
very large. For such situations, it is more efficient to rely on a few well-
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trained staff members and the emergency voice communication system.
Safety is the inverse or opposite of risk, so greater safety means the
reduction or elimination of some risk to people or property. Risk can
never be entirely eliminated, so safety is never absolute. Because
financial resources are the most obvious sacrifice required to decrease
risk, the trade offis often called "willingness to pay." The lower the risk
becomes, the more it typically costs to achieve each additional increase in
safety. The Fire Safety proposals recommended by staff set forth
minimum requirements established to protect the health and safety of
society and attempts to represent a compromise between optimum safety
and economic feasibility. Lessons learned from the tragedy of the Station
nightclub in West Warwick, Rhode Island and other deadly public
assembly fires have been incorporated into staff proposals, as well as
model codes, such as the 2006 Edition of the Life Safety Code and
Uniform Fire Code. Emergency voice communication requirements are
required by the 2006 International Building Code for certain occupancies.
To date, over forty occupancies in Iowa City are protected by emergency
voice communication systems. Most are University buildings, but they
also include the Englert Theatre, Sycamore Cinema, Proctor and Gamble,
and Plaza Towers. NFPA's fire protection handbook states, and I quote,
"As the cost of emergency voice alarm systems comes down closer to
conventional systems, they are being used more and more by designers.
They are most always required by codes in high-rise buildings, but can
also be effectively used in smaller buildings. When provided with detailed
information about a fire emergency, people tend to evacuate more quickly
and effectively." The assembly occupancies by their nature pose unique
life safety challenges. Typical characteristics include large numbers of
people with a high occupancy density, and in the case of Alcohol
Beverage Division license occupancies, alcohol consumption. Because of
the large number of occupants, evacuation of the building will take longer
when compared to other occupancies. To insure rapid evacuation,
sufficient means of egress systems must be provided and maintained. It
might be overly optimistic to expect that the standard fire alarm signal will
warn occupants, prompt immediate action, initiate evacuation movement,
and allow sufficient time to escape safely. Prompt notification must be
made to the occupants and clear directions provided. This requires a well
documented emergency plan, trained staff, and facility management who
must not hesitate implementing the emergency plan. Fire resistive
construction, automatic fire suppression systems, emergency voice
communication systems, and trained staff all contribute to the safety of
assembly occupancies. The level of safety provided is not the result of
any single safety system or feature, but rather is achieved through the
combination of multiple safeguards that are provided. Many of the
thousands of non- fatal assembly fires each year are near misses that very
easily could have been major tragedies. Long periods of complacency,
alternating with punctuated moments of national panic, are no way to
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make wise decisions about safety choices and their engineering
consequences, but at the same time, it is not unreasonable to assume, as
the public tends to do, that any major tragedy that could have been
prevented, should have been prevented. I'll close now with my strong
recommendation that you consider favorably the ordinance before you,
and act to pro actively manage the fire and life safety risks associated with
Group A-2 occupancies. Thank you.
Wilburn: Thank you.
Elliott: Roger, your statement, urn, words were well chosen, I thought, but it
seemed to insinuate at least that the fire alarm system, the voice, was a
stand-alone without a sprinkler system, because it insinuated if just an
alarm goes off, people will sit there. Uh, I would think that the main
impetus for people getting up and leaving would be the sprinkler system
spewing water on them.
Jensen: Well, we're talking about...
Elliott: Don't they go off at the same time?
Jensen: .. .they don't all go off at the same time, no. Only the sprinkler head
above the fire is going to activate, and so for example, if the fire were to
occur in a basement or in a kitchen, uh...
Elliott: Good point.
Jensen: .. .many places inside that building would not know it.
Elliott: Good point.
O'Donnell: Roger, did I.. .did I hear you.. .wow.. . (strange noise).. .it's echoing! Did I
hear you say that people when they hear a fire alarm will not do anything
because of confusion? They don't know what it is?
Champion: They ignore it!
O'Donnell: What do you think it.. .what do you think that they think it is when they
hear the fire alarm?
Jensen: I think what people are thinking is that when they walk in the door to an
A-2 occupancy, they no longer feel like they have to be responsible for
their own safety and well being, that others will look out for them. That if
there is something that they need to take steps to preserve their own self or
prevent injury that they'll be told what to do.
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O'Donnell: But people today are used to hearing that alarm. They have fire alarm
drills as small children. You know, they practice alarm drills in their own
home. Urn, I just...I really don't know how I feel about this voice
activated alarm, at this point in time.
Wilburn: I guess I equate what he was describing similar to people's response to the
tornado system, and I've noticed a significant difference between people
responding, or even asking a question, is this a test or not. The last test at
the beginning of the month, couple of my neighbors. . .I was leaving the
house and a couple of them came outside and it happened to be a day
where there was some storm activity and they wanted to know whether or
not it was a test or not, and prior to that.. .prior, I'm thinking a year ago, a
year and a half ago prior to the tornado, urn, people in the neighborhood
didn't really respond, and so I guess that was kind of.. .unless you've had
the experience where, you know something. . .
Jensen: I believe the most dramatic would have been in recent history the Mondo's
fire, fire that started in an A-2 occupancy and threatened those living in
the residential apartments up above, and they all heard the alarm, and they
all had to be physically removed by firefighters. They all chose to ignore
the alarm.
Wilburn: Other questions?
Bailey: You said something about, and I don't remember the distinction. People
will be less inclined to respond to instructions under certain
circumstances, but what would make them more likely to respond to
instructions over a voice alarm system...in an A-2 occupancy, I think you
were talking about alcohol consumption. What would make them even
more likely to respond to a voice alarm instructions, if people typically in
that situation are less likely to respond to instructions?
Jensen: The contrast I was attempting to make, Regenia, was between just the horn
of a standard fire alarm signal sounding. The difference between a
response to that signal, as opposed to someone giving voice
communication instructions, such as, "We have a fire in the kitchen,; the
rear exit is no longer usable; please exit the building through the front
door only." People tend to believe that information. They believe it to be
more reliable, more trustworthy, and will cause them to get up and move
more quickly.
Wilburn: Any other questions before 1. . .
Vanderhoef: Urn, Roger, I spoke with both Director Boothroy and Roger subsequent to
a question I had about whether voice activation could be an add-on to a
system. In other words, be able to stage this in thinking in terms of the
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dollars involved, and the answer I got was that this is not cost effective,
number one, and a lot of the systems will not be able to upgrade that way
and take a totally different kind of cabling and so forth, so that it's not, uh,
a good idea in my mind.
Bailey: So does that go along with elimination and also stopping other sounds, as
well? Is this package, the three things come together?
Jensen: That is the way it is packaged before you, yes.
Bailey: Right. Is it an option to, I mean, it makes sense if the lights come up that
people will pay attention. Is that something...is that a stand-alone option?
Jensen: It potentially could still be incorporated. In fact, over the course of the
recent past, the last three or four years, any standard fire alarm system that
we've had installed in the city in A-2 occupancies, we have at least taken
measures to automatically stop the interfering sounds. The loud amplified
music, in oh, at least six to twelve of the existing occupancies, it will stop
the sound. Now, it could be configured so that those two events could
occur with a standard fire alarm system, whereby the music stops and
lights come up, the purpose of which of course is to get people's attention.
Here's something that you need to pay attention to.
Wilburn: Does the Council wish to have public discussion around this particular
aspect of this, the voice alarm (several talking at once). Okay. All right.
Thank you.
Champion: Roger, what sets these alarms off? Is it just heat? Is it fire?
Jensen: It can, yes. In fact, ifthere were fires, let's go back to the kitchen fire and
a sprinkler head fuses in the kitchen, and the water flow from the sprinkler
system, that's one method of activating the alarm. Another method could
be heat or smoke detectors positioned above the fire alarm control unit.
We have to protect that fire alarm control panel. Another method could be
a manual pull station.
Champion: Does dust set them off?
O'Donnell: One more quick question. Do I understand the cost is approximately
$15,000, and could be another $5,000 to incorporate it into their existing
electrical box?
Jensen: I think those estimates are a little high. I did hear of one yesterday in one
of the larger bars for everything that we have just suggested with respect
to emergency voice communication, stopping the music, bringing up the
lights, to include the electrician's labor, cost of cabling, all of the
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hardware, and it was, uh, $9,000 to $10,000 - right in that range. Total
cost.
O'Donnell: Was there additional cost for the electrical box?
Jensen: No, that was, that was the... total package. We had received estimates
prior to, urn, this discussion, Mike, from three contractors that do
significant work in our city and they all three came in about $8,500 for the
equipment, electrician's work, and so forth, but again, yesterday I did hear
of one that was slightly higher.
O'Donnell: Thank you.
Wilburn: Okay.
Vanderhoef: Would steam activate the systems?
Jensen: Smoke alarms are susceptible to activation by steam, but in this type of
environment, smoke alarms would not be installed. They would, that's
never the preferred detection device in an occupancy where steam or
cooking odors or smoke from tobacco are present.
Vanderhoef: So how do you, what kind of alarm do you use in the kitchen if steam is
not one of the activators?
Jensen: Sure, well, still the best method is tying it to the sprinkler system so that if
you have a fire, and of course the fire generates heat, and heat fuses the
element in the sprinkler head, allows water to flow, so we can measure in
the sprinkler system when water is flowing and activate the alarm based
on that.
Wilburn: Okay, thank you. I'll go ahead and allow public discussion. Urn, it may,
since the Council is first looking at the issue of the emergency voice
communication, it might be helpful to keep your comments to that part,
and please don't forget to state your name for the record and limit your
comments to five minutes or less.
Cohen: Leah Cohen with Bo James. Thank you, Mayor, for allowing discussion
just on the voice alarms. That's what we kind of wanted was to look at
that. That is the one area that we strongly disagree on, and we have from
day one. I had asked, I knew Roger was doing his presentation today, and
I had asked that he formulate that specifically to bars, to show anything
where concerned bars, any incidences where these sorts of things have
been in use, and have proven effective and I don't think we heard anything
in that regards. I think the places that they're using them - Plaza Tower
One, the theaters, those sorts of things, if you look at where they are being
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used, are malls. It's areas where there's multiple people in all these
different areas that may not know anything going on. These are, you
know, individual buildings that we're looking at here, but several concerns
with the voice alann systems. One, the larger bars that are, urn,
conforming here and will be asked to bring up to code have extensive
systems. It isn't something that we would hope a fire would go very far at
all because they're sprinklered. You know, to relate any of this to that
horrible fire that happened, urn, in New Hampshire, wherever it happened,
urn, it doesn't even relate because there was no sprinkler system there, so
the sprinkler system, we're hoping, will stop fires period. I don't know
that many people have ever been killed where there's a sprinkler system at
all, but with that, to add the voice alarm systems to the bars that have it
currently, they have a very extensive system. It is very costly for them to
do it. It's not something they can just hook into their system. They have
been asked and they have complied with.. .that the music goes down. The
lighting, or the emergency lighting system, I believe is set off. The voice
alarms are basically a P.A. system is what they are. All the large bars
have P.A. systems, a lot of the small bar do. Urn, my guess would be, and
certainly ifit were me that had to have one of these voice alarms, I would
use it as a P.A. system. So, I don't think as far as people hearing anything
different from that alann. It almost is going to be worse than an alarm
because people are used to hearing P.A. systems in the bars, and they just
tune them out. So I don't think that there's any way that that would make
a difference with that. The other, the other concern, and probably one of
the biggest concerns certainly in a large bar with a lot of alcohol and
people drinking, is abuse of this system. That someone could get on that
microphone and you know way whatever they wanted to say and that
things could happen as a result of that. I don't think it's been proven in
any way at this point in time. So just to let you know that, urn, in talking
with them outside of coming to where we are at today, that we do strongly
disagree with the voice alarm system.
Champion: Leah, can you answer a question for me. Do a lot of the bars already have
a system to turn lights on, ifthere's an emergency? Do...
Cohen: Do the large bars go on with one switch? (unable to hear person in
audience)
Wilburn: Sir, you're going to have to come up to the microphone.
Porter: At the Summit. We don't have anything at Jake's. There's a system that
when the fire alarm goes off, it automatically shuts off the dance floor
music and the dance floor lighting, because the theory behind that is the
dance floor lighting was pretty intense, and it would interfere with the
strobes that were going off so nobody would see the strobes. They were
just confusing that with an effect from the dance floor. We don't have
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anything that actually, right now we don't, turns lights on. We have it to
turn stuff off.
Champion: And how do people see to get out?
Porter: Oh, we have (unable to hear).
Champion: Do most bars have some kind of system that tells them, does something to
let people know there's something going on?
Cohen: . . . pretty extensive. Explain what you have at the Summit, as far as the
fire system.
Porter: Well, the fire...I don't see them in here, but we have the strobe and siren
system right now. Usually you see them in most buildings that have the
red boxes up on the walls with the strobe. Those are activated by either,
urn, when the fire sprinkler system would go off. We had an incident at
the Summit where my cook was in there, and he was flambeing the tequila
down for chicken tortilla soup and manager walked in and asked him a
question, he turned to answer it, it shot up and hit the sprinkler, filled the
kitchen up with water, and the fire alarm goes off immediately. I think the
second way to activate that is the red pull station handles, at all the exits,
where you just, you know, pull up the alarm. We had that installed when
we opened the Summit. Jake's does not have that.
Champion: Thank you.
Cohen: So the big bars in other words, the three or four that have systems now, are
pretty extensive. You're going to know something's going on, there's
those strobes going off and even in a small place like mine, there's an
alarm that sounds, and I do have a smoke alarm. I don't know if
everybody does, but I have it. It's hooked into the call system, just like
everything else. It is a smoke alarm.
Champion: This is another probably silly question, but I would hope that most bars
certainly train their employees about emergency management. Isn't that
part of a requirement?
Cohen: The Fire Department did start last year, urn, with, we haven't had any
follow up since that time. We did have those meetings last year and they
did do training of staff, and we've had fire alarms in our places, that sort
of thing, that had been done, but we've had no further follow up on that
issue. Okay. Thank you.
Wilburn: Thank you. Would anyone else care to address the Council related to the
emergency voice communication system?
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Neades: I'm Rebecca Neades, Chamber of Commerce. Just a couple comments
related to this, is.. .we're talking about the cost, and of course we know
that they can't all be always added on to the existing systems, but don't
forget the annual maintenance cost. I went out and visited a bar owner last
week that has this system in. He was required to do it before he got his
liquor license, before he was approved, and even before this was, you
know, set in stone, and um, he said, you know, it's not just the initial cost.
It's the annual cost that they have to have it maintained. Also, it's a very
extensive system with strobes and whatnot, you've heard this, but just to
get it set up, he said took couple days to get everything installed, but then
took a full day to get the strobes set, urn, because of course they can't be
going off at the same time or people with seizures will have them, and so
the strobes have to be timed just right. He said that's a maintenance
nightmare because every time they come out and check it, they have to
recheck everything and they have to set them all off and the timing gets
off, and he said that's really a big deal. It's just a maintenance nightmare
is what he said. Urn, and then the last point is to, you know, the comment
that we do tend to ignore alarms after they go, we've heard them so many
times, and you know, I think the same thing would happen here. It doesn't
take very long for us to adjust to whatever is happening around us, and so,
initially a voice over alarm might prove to be something different, but any
alarm that goes off very often and we know that in bars and restaurants
they do go off from time to time, as in dorm rooms, urn, it's something
that would be easily ignored after we heard it a couple times and so those
are my comments. Thank you.
Wilburn: Thank you. Anyone else on the emergency voice communication? Uh,
any further Council discussion or. . .questions?
Correia: I just had a question. The East Warwick fire that you mentioned, did that
establishment have sprinkler system?
Jensen: The Station nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island did not.
Correia: It didn't have sprinklers?
Jensen: Did not have sprinklers. Did have an alarm, but...
Correia: An alarm, but it didn't have any sprinklers.
O'Donnell: Roger, what were the circumstances of that fire?
Jensen: They were, they used pyrotechnics illegally inside of a nightclub, and they
had wall coverings that were very flammable and caused the fire to spread
rapidly, and create voluminous amounts of toxic smoke.
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O'Donnell: We do not allow pyrotechnics (unable to hear), right?
Jensen: We permit the use of pyrotechnics in Iowa City. We would not allow
them in a bar.
O'Donnell: In a bar, we don't allow it.
Jensen: Right.
O'Donnell: Okay, thank you.
Correia: So, in all of the, all of our A-2 occupancies have a fire alarm?
Jensen: No, that would not be true. No. Some do. Some don't. The only thing
that the current code, Amy, would require would be for the very largest,
and anything that has had sprinkler systems installed would also have
alarm equipment.
Correia: If you have a sprinkler you have an alarm.
Jensen: That's correct.
Correia: It might not be a voice alarm, but you have an alarm.
Jensen: Correct.
Champion: . . .do have an alarm and mine talks to me.
Correia: Okay.
Champion: It's pretty scary! (laughter)
Correia: All right, so, if you have a sprinkler, you will have an alarm.
Jensen: That's correct.
Correia: Okay.
Jensen: The requirement to install a sprinkler system will also include alarm, a
basic alarm system.
Correia: Right. So would it be similar to like what we have at the City, that there's
a box that has, that makes the lights go off and, or something. I'm trying
to remember what happened...I was here for the tornado. It seemed like
the lights went off, then we had all these lights on the fire alarms.
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Jensen: Emergency lights. I think what you're referring to would actually be
triggered by a loss of power.
Correia: Oh, that's what...
Jensen: .. .lose AC power in a building and the emergency lights would come on.
Correia: Okay.
Jensen: That would not come on with the fire alarm system.
Correia: Okay.
Jensen: What would happen would be there would be a notification appliances, so
there'd be horns and strobes, and in the case ofa modem fire alarm
system, it would be tied to a communicator, through the phone system, a
monitoring agency, often times many states away. Minneapolis receives a
signal that there's an alarm in a certain address in Iowa City, Iowa; they in
turn, then, call our emergency communication center and dispatch fire
units.
Correia: Okay.
Jensen: So, there's a local alarm for occupants, to notify them to, that there's
something going on, and the signal is sent via digital alarm communicator
to a monitoring agency. But nothing that would do the lights. The only
thing that would currently cause lights to come on would be loss of AC
power.
Vanderhoef: Tell me. You said some of them have alarms, and some don't. What does
the current code actually require in an A-2?
Jensen: Okay. The current building code would require minimally a fire alarm
system in an A-2 with an occupant load of 300 and larger.
Vanderhoef: That's new?
Jensen: Yes.
Vanderhoef: Okay. What about existing?
Jensen: Existing, we have not gone back to require anything additional beyond
what the building code would have required at the time it was built.
Vanderhoef: So give me a range of what you see in those older establishments.
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Jensen: Numbers, is that what you're asking?
Vanderhoef: No. What do they have for fire safety? What does the code require for the
fire safety in those. . .
Jensen: Well, again Dee, it would depend when it was built, when it came into
existence. The building code at that time would dictate many things,
including fire protection equipment - alarms or sprinklers and such.
Vanderhoef: I understand that, but what I'm trying to get at is tell me the range. When
you go in for a fire safety check annually in each of these businesses, do
you have to look back at that code that was there at the time it was built?
Jensen: That's correct.
Vanderhoef: Okay. So, what's the range, what's the worst-case scenario that we have
in some of these occupancies? How little up to how much that meets what
we have in today's code?
Hennes: I think the worst-case scenario is nothing.
Vanderhoef: And there are some like that? Okay. That's...
Hennes: Best-case scenario, I would probably use the Summit, and Roger, correct
me ifI'm wrong, but kills the sound and lights. It allows the alarm, the
strobe and the horn, to work.
Correia: And there is a sprinkler?
Hennes: And there is a sprinkler system.
Vanderhoef: So that's, that's the range, everything from zero, not even a smoke
detector?
Jensen: That's correct.
Vanderhoef: They are not required in the code right now?
Jensen: That's correct.
Vanderhoef: Holy cow!
Jensen: That's why we're here.
Champion: Well, any building that has a security system probably has a smoke
detector usually comes along with it, and the fire alarm.
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Correia: Insurance must require.. .no? My homeowner's insurance asks me that.
Jensen: And the difference, Amy, would be that's where people sleep, and so
where people sleep, of course, smoke detectors are very important, but in a
business, assembly occupancy where people are not sleeping normally-
they're awake, cognizant and able to respond, smoke alarms are less
important.
Champion: A smoke alarm is pretty cheap!
Jensen: But it's also, the thing about a smoke alarm, Connie, is it is susceptible to
problems with steam, and certainly with smoke generated from smoking,
cooking odors, and so it's, it's certainly not a desirable detection device in
the occupancies we're talking about.
Wilburn: Just by a show of hands related to the emergency voice communication,
how many...
Cohen: Can I just. ..I think, I think one thing with Dee's question is a little
inaccurate here. I believe restaurants that have any sort of grill system
have an ansul system that is required over that grill system, so that's a fire
system everywhere, in a restaurant that has food.
Champion: What is that?
Cohen: It's a, it's over the grills and the fryers. It's a, urn...
Wilburn: Isn't it like a powder or. ..
Cohen: Yeah! It's, if the flame goes too high or too much, I think it's mostly heat
that sets it off. So all of us have that over our grill and fryers in a kitchen.
Now a bar that does not have a kitchen would not have that, but the other
thing is my guess would be that any type of establishment would have to
have the, you know, portable every so many, yeah, fire extinguishers,
portable fire extinguishers in them. So I don't know that anybody has
nothing, but that would be probably the minimal.
Vanderhoef: But, that isn't required by our code.
Champion: Oh, yes!
Cohen: Yes, I believe it is.
Vanderhoef: That's what I was trying to get at!
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Jensen: Leah is correct. Any restaurant that would have a grill, a cooking
appliance for commercial cooking, would be required, and would be
equipped with an extinguishing system, just above the grill. And Leah's
also correct that all would have minimally two Al OBC five-pound
portable fire extinguishers, 75-foot travel distance between each.
Champion: And exit lights. I know the code, because they're always at me.
(laughter)
Wilburn: Just by a show of hands, how many Council Members are interested in the
requiring the emergency communication system?
Bailey: I'm interested in an aspect of it. I'm interested in the lights and sound, the
lights coming up and the sound stopping, so I don't know if.. .that's what I
was trying to get at. If this comes as a package, I'm interested in two-
thirds of it.
Wilburn: How many are interested in it as presented? That would just be Wilburn.
How many are interested in a two-thirds package, consisting of the. ..
Bailey: I think it makes a lot of sense to have the lights come up and the other
sounds stop. I mean, that seems pretty obvious safety measure. Ifwe
don't have that. . .
Wilburn: And how many besides, uh, Bailey and Wilburn are interested in that?
Correia: Oh, I'm interested.
Vanderhoef: Let's think about that a second.
Bailey: I mean, I don't know ifthat's doable. I don't want to require something
that's not possible. But it seems to make a lot of sense if you're talking
about getting people's attention in, you know, an occupied building.
Jensen: Speak to. . .is it possible, the answer would be yes, that, uh, a standard fire
alarm system, urn, is capable of doing many things. In fact, we see HV AC
systems, for example, automatically shut down by fire alarm system.
Doors can be held open with magnetic hold-open devices, fire alarm
activates and doors close and create fire separation areas. So, certainly, as
we've done in the past, Regenia, with new installations of standard fire
alarm systems, it very definitely is possible to stop the confusing sounds.
What we have not done is, because we didn't think we had code authority
to require it, and that is to bring up house lights. We're able to, based
upon the current code, include the requirement to stop interrupting and
interfering sounds, based upon the requirement that you've got to be able
to hear the fire alarm system in order to respond, and so with amplified
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Page 35
sound equipment that's producing sound levels that are at or equal to a fire
alarm system, absolutely necessary to stop those. So it is possible.
Elliott: Of the. . . of the, urn, aspects of an alarm system that you described, it
seems to me that bringing up all the lights would be the single most
important aspect, and I'm interested in cost. I've got some other remarks,
but 1. . . going just on that, I'd be interested in what would the cost be,
something that would just bring up all the light.
Jensen: The proposal that we've sought, Bob, would draw upon a minimum
requirement that currently exists in the building code, and that is ten-foot
candles at thirty inches above the floor. That's a lighting requirement that
currently exists in the building code, and so that was what we were
seeking to establish with the activation of the alarm.
Champion: And what does that mean? I don't know.. .you didn't talk about candles. I
don't know what you mean.
Jensen: It would bring up house lights so that everywhere in the building we
would have ample light to be able to see and find an exit.
Correia: So you're saying that's already in the code?
Jensen: That requirement for ten-foot candles at thirty inches above the floor, that
already exists, so we didn't just dream that up. We... that comes right out
of the building code. We didn't dream any of this up, but.. . (laughter).
Bailey: That illumination level did not necessarily...it coming up in an
emergency. . .
Jensen: With the activation of the fire alarm.
Bailey: Right. So the illumination level is something that's already there, but the
activation of, for example, if you're in a bar and the lights come up at
11 :00, you're going to notice it, absolutely! And it just seems, I mean, I
agree with Bob. That would be, I think, something that would get
people's attention.
Jensen: It will, especially if the loud music also stops.
Bailey: Right.
Vanderhoef: And now compare that cost to put in that kind of a system with the
complete system that also has the voice-over.
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Jensen: Significantly less, Dee. Those contact points would be available on a
standard fire alarm system. So, it would not require hardly anything of a
fire alann contractor, only an electrician to be able to configure the system
so as to be able to provide that level of lighting throughout.
Champion: Isn't that what the Summit has? Isn't that what you have...
Bailey: Mike didn't say that the lights came up. The dance lights stop.
Jensen: I guess an example of one that is so equipped would be Sycamore Cinema
Center. In all of the theaters there, it'll do all of what we're proposing. If
you get an alarm signal, the movie's going to stop, uh, the sound's going
to stop, lights are going to come up, and a voice is going to tell you what
to do.
Champion: But a movie theater's a lot darker than a bar.
Jensen: Well...
Champion: No?
Jensen: Let me take you around a few places. (laughter)
Wilburn: Now we're back to.. .Rebecca, did you have something you wanted to add,
on the emergency communication?
Neades: Not so much the voice part, but to be compatible with the existing fire
alarms that people have, the voice-over system that brings the strobes and
brings up the lights is an add-on - it's something different. It's not
necessarily compatible. It makes sense to me that the lights.. . you would
have to have an electrician come in or something and do a w hole lighting
system. So, do you have a cost on that? We don't have one tonight, but I
can see that.. .there is going to be a cost separate and greater than what
you would have to just have a regular fire alarm system. So...
Champion: Well, I think everybody ought to have a fire alarm of some kind.
Neades: Sure, yeah, and I think...I think you guys have discussed that, but I'm
worried about how much of an add-on that is, and if it would be
compatible with what people currently have, or they have to get a new
system. So, just a concern. I don't know the answer.
Bailey: Well, if we're trying to get people's attention in a safety situation, I think
at some point we're going to have to set aside this discussion of cost, and I
mean, this seems to make a lot of sense to bring up lights. I think we're
all in close agreement about that. So I think that we should get some
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#12
Neades:
Bailey:
N eades:
Bailey:
Elliott:
Bailey:
Elliott:
Bailey:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
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information, but I don't think that that will sway my opinion very much
when we're talking about safety.
But I would assume then you would probably want to do it elsewhere
besides just bars and restaurants.
We haven't discussed that yet.
Theaters.
We haven't discussed that yet.
I'm not in favor of setting aside cost. The City has decided some time
ago, it is setting aside cost when it comes to public safety. The City has
made that, the City has decided it cannot spend an amount equal to about
1 % of its budget for public safety, for a fire station on the north side. I am
not going to set aside cost for private businesses.
Well, I'm not going to nickel and dime public safety.
We already are.
Not in my opinion, Bob.
Ijust have a question. So, in the memo from May 24th.
You're talking about the one that went out in the information packet?
Yes, the memo on the, in the May 24th info packet.
Okay.
Requirement number one, when you have the list of establishments that
needs sprinklers and voice alarms, those are current establishments that
don't have sprinklers, correct?
On the left side, urn...
One through six.
They don't have sprinklers, and as I understand, the consensus tonight, uh,
they would not have to have voice alarms.
No, no, that's not my question.
Oh, okay.
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Correia: You're going ahead of me.
Boothroy: I guess. . .I thought you were trying to understand how. . .
Correia: No, I'm trying to understand.. .so those folks don't have sprinklers and
they don't have fire alarms currently.
Champion: V oice alarms.
Boothroy: V oice alarms.
Correia: So they could have fire alarms? They're not required to. They could have
them. We don't know?
Boothroy: Well, Roger might know, but I don't know...I can't answer that question.
Correia: Okay. And then on the right hand side where there's the voice alarms and
there's a seven businesses, all of those have sprinklers.
Boothroy: That's correct.
Correia: And if they have a sprinkler, they have ari alarm system attached to it.
Boothroy: That's correct.
Correia: That might do a variety of things, but it's shooting off. . .
Boothroy: They have both sprinklers and alarms.
Correia: Sprinklers and alarms.
Boothroy: That's right. That seven.
Correia: What I'm wondering is if we for establishments that already have
sprinklers and alarms that we say, 'You're in compliance from what you
have.' They've invested funds, money, into these systems. It could be, I
mean...
Boothroy: You're talking about the lighting issue now?
Correia: I'm just talking about. . . that they have safety. . .
Boothroy: If you take.. .if voice, as I understand it, voice alarms are, there is.. .there
aren't four votes to require voice alarms specifically. So if that's the case,
those one through seven are in compliance, and there is no additional work
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Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Elliott:
Boothroy:
Jensen:
Elliott:
Boothroy:
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required, unless you get into this discussion, require I should say, the, uh,
lighting feature that we just talked about.
Right.
Then they would not have that, and so they would still be non-compliant.
But if, if.. . yeah, right, so...
I mean, I think that, you know, in the best situation, you know, in the best
of situations, we would have the lights come up, but I also think that, you
know, you give us the example of the West Warwick, Rhode Island where
there's nothing.. . and this is what happened, and we have these seven
establishments that have sprinklers and alarm systems. So, I mean, I'm
feeling confident that folks are safe in an emergency.
Well, we've stated that with sprinklers there are.. . Roger can correct me,
but as I recall in his presentation, there have not been any death in
assembly occupancies as a result of sprinklers being in place.
Okay, okay.
So it does, it does protect life.
Okay, so I guess I'm feeling confident with when there's already
sprinklers with their associated alarms that people are safe. Certainly safer
than if neither of those things. . .
Absolutely!
In your previous comments, not yours but collectively, the indication was
from national statistics that the single most important aspect at saving
lives and protecting property was sprinkler systems. That was the number
one, single most important, as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't that correct, Roger, that sprinklers are most important for saving lives
and property? I don't know.
It's very important. I don't know if it's the single most.. .
I just recall that. Now maybe I'm wrong.
The point I tried to make tonight, Bob, is that it's really a mistake to put
all your faith in one system, that it's really a combination of having an
emergency plan, an evacuation plan, having trained staff, um, having the
wherewithal to implement that, if necessary. Um, preferably having a type
of construction that's not conducive to the kind of configuration at the
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Station nightclub fire. Urn, having a trained crowd managers that are
watchful of emergency exit routes and making sure that we don't block
them with chairs or tables. It's additionally having built-in fire protection
equipment, such as automatic suppression systems and urn, if I had my
way, emergency (TAPE ENDS)
Champion: .. . and I personally think sprinkler systems should be in place.
Wilburn: But, Connie, excuse me for a minute. Let me interrupt, uh, I had a request
for a break. I was attempting to see if we could come to a resolution as to
whether or not there was support for the voice systems, and apparently
there are not. Ifwe're going to continue other nuances of that, we'll have
to take it up after a ten-minute break. So, back at quarter 'til. (TAPE
OFF)
Wilburn: Ready, Marian? Well, just to recap where we were when we left off, there
was not agreement, there was not enough agreement for the voice alarms
within fifteen years to proceed forward with that.
Vanderhoef: I would consider, uh, making sure that it stays in there for all new
construction.
Champion: I don't know ifit's necessary. Urn, Dee, because a sprinkler system, to me
personally, is the most important part of this whole fire code. Didn't we
do a demonstration. . . we had a van or something out here that showed us
how fast a sprinkler system went off and.. .so I'm quite comfortable with
the sprinkler system, minus the voice alarm, and I think it was stated that
nobody's ever died in a building that has a sprinkler system, and urn,
frankly working on a bum unit, I totally loved sprinkler systems. It's not
any fun to have, to be burned. Life threatening is emotionally threatening,
so I would say that we drop the whole voice alarm thing. I think
everybody should have a fire alarm of some kind and anybody who has a
security system will have a fire alarm attached to that. Isn't that correct?
Boothroy: I don't know the answer to that.
Champion: It's part of the system.
Boothroy: Security systems, I don't...
Correia: Well, we have stated if they have a sprinkler, they're going to have a fire
alarm.
Boothroy: That's correct.
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#12
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Correia:
Boothroy:
Bailey:
Boothroy:
Bailey:
Boothroy:
Bailey:
Champion:
Boothroy:
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And so, when.. . and when you put in a sprinkler and an alarm system from
scratch, it's not there already, is it pretty easy to then say we want this fire
alarm to include lights up? Versus retrofitting...
I understand that it can be done, yes. It's not something that.. .it's more
complicated.. .it's always more complicated to retrofit.
Right, so, I mean, there could be...
It could be done from the...
. . .no existing, either new. . .
I think one of the things that I wanted to.. . since we've sort of moved
beyond voice alarms, what we sent out to you in the packet was where
staff and our meetings with representatives of the downtown businesses
affected have come to agreement, and that means that if voice alarms
comes off the table, then we're just back to the sprinkling requirement
with the alarms, and the light, course the cutting the lights as part of that
package, which is no additional cost. I understand the interest in looking
at the lighting system and maybe that's something we should look at at
some future point in time, but we have made progress. We have got
support for what we have done to date. In general we have support, I
should say, and I would not like to, uh, mess that up, I guess. (laughter)
And it is a process. It's a balancing of these things. This is a very good
document in terms of protecting life safety. It provides, uh, we're in
agreement in terms of the time periods to bring compliance, it targets high
occupancies, it targets above and below businesses, and it gives those
businesses that are less hazardous and stand alone, single-occupancy
businesses - they're not required to comply immediately, unless they sell
the business. So...
It's not a point at which everybody must be in compliance in this.
On point number three, there is not a point. It's change of ownership.
Right.
Uh...
It's change of ownership. There's not a point in the future where
everybody will absolutely be compliant.
Oh, yeah, everybody will change ownership. We all die.
There isn't a date in the ordinance though. There's not a date specific.
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Bailey: Right. And I've been really interested in seeing that.
Boothroy: All I was trying to say is, we've come to (laughter and people
talking).. .how did you mean that? I wasn't (laughter).. . anyway, and so
I'd like to see us move forward as much, if we can, on the features that
we've got because we've got to a point where we've made progress and I,
as I said, I'm afraid that if we can't agree on that then things start to
unravel again and we start going back.
Bailey: I have some questions.
Champion: I have a few more too.
Boothroy: Well, whoever wants to go first. This is not fight night. (laughter and
several talking)
Vanderhoef: Can I follow up on what he just said though?
Wilburn: Why don't you go ahead and follow up.. .Dee, go ahead and follow up on
that one point and then Regenia had asked before if she could have a walk
through with some things. So go ahead.
Vanderhoef: You just said that we were not, you didn't want to delay this any longer,
but I still don't know what the cost is on the light situation to bring lights
up.
Boothroy: And I'm suggesting that we don't put that on the table, because...
Vanderhoef: But you said bring it back another time, and that's what I'm...
Boothroy: It could be brought back another time, if you wish.
Vanderhoef: I know, and ifit's going to be brought back, say in three years after we've
already gone through some of this stuff and people all at once find out
that, uh, well, I could have done it.
Boothroy: No, what I was.. .what I was anticipating is that we are going through the
International Code amendments, which will be corning to you first of
August or the end of July and that would be when you could readdress that
particular issue, but... but if you would so chose.
Vanderhoef: But that doesn't address the cost!
Boothroy: No, we would provide those costs for you at that time that you reconsider,
uh, the Fire Code and the Building Code in July.
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Vanderhoef: So you're saying we would address it...
Boothroy: In about sixty days.
Dilkes: Doug, you're talking with respect to new businesses.
Boothroy: Right.
Di1kes: Do you understand that? When he says we're going to talk to you about
the Fire Code in sixty days, we're talking about just the changes that apply
to new businesses, not this stuff.
Vanderhoef: Fine, that's the piece I needed. Thank you, Eleanor.
Boothroy: Okay.
Wilburn: Okay, Regenia, go ahead and...
Bailey: Okay, so there's nothing in here that brings everybody to compliance at a
certain date in time.
Boothroy: Yes, that's correct.
Bailey: And I still think that that's a problem, and then in section, just reading
down and sort of going through this by line, urn...
Boothroy: You mean the ordinance or the memo?
Bailey: In the ordinance.
Boothroy: Okay.
Bailey: Just because.. .this is what I've got to understand so we can actually move
forward on a vote. Urn, the new Group A-2 occupancies that...
Boothroy: What page are you on? I'm sorry.
Bailey: I'm on the ordinance, in our packet, in Section 903.2.1.2 - it's about...
Boothroy: Got it!
Bailey: .. . half way down.
Boothroy: Tim, you want to.. .I'll have Tim address, because he...
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Bailey: It's Item A. So that's new Group A-2 occupancies that don't necessarily
have liquor license, correct?
Boothroy: That is correct.
Bailey: Okay, because I had some questions on that, and then the existing A-2 and
Group B occupancies without liquor license, urn, will be exempted, if they
don't have liquor licenses, correct?
Hennes: That is correct. The only B is...
Bailey: And then going to the next page... this under Section 907.2.1 - the
exception. This is except for Group A-2 occupancies, it doesn't mater
whether they have an alcohol license or not, correct?
Hennes: That is correct.
Bailey: All right.
Hennes: And that is only for new construction.
Bailey: Uh-huh. Okay. And then we're crossing out this voice part. Okay. I
think that that seems pretty clear to me. So then the new A-2's that need
to comply, or the A-2's that need to comply are the new.
Hennes: Correct.
Bailey: Got it.
Champion: I just.. . are you done, Regenia?
Bailey: Yes.
Champion: I'm going to talk a little bit about the above and below the ground. Urn,
I'm going to talk about Dublin Underground who has a sprinkler system. I
called the people who service that, and they say it does have pressure in it
and it functions, and I think it's unfair for somebody who has a system
that they've maintained all these years and actually put a lot of money into
it in the beginning to have to replace a system that is functioning.
Wilburn: I think the comment. . .
Hennes: Roger will have to talk to that because he's inspected it.
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Wilburn: I think the comment that Roger made last time was that there was no one
who would certify, that there's probably a difference between functioning
and would certify.. . somebody who...
Jensen: To the best of our knowledge, that was put in by a plumber and not by a
fire sprinkler contractor.
Champion: No. It's a fire...
Jensen: I understand what it is. It looks very much like a sprinkler system, but a
licensed fire sprinkler contractor will not certify that that is going to
function as a sprinkler system would be expected to function. I've asked
the sprinkler contractors to please certify it for us, and we will deem it to
be a sprinkler system. They won't.
Wilburn: (unable to hear person in audience) Go ahead.
Brown: It's absolutely true that there is not a service person who's going to say
that my sprinkler system is supplied by two-inch pipe and that it can put
out x-amount of cubic feet per minute, if three sprinkler heads are opened
at the same time. Is that the requirement? No one will say that, because it
is not supplied by a four-inch main, but I do have someone who comes in
and says that there is pressure in there, that it is up to the same standards it
was last year, as the year before, as to the year it was installed, when I
assume a fire official looked at it. So...
Karr: Sir, could I have your name, please?
Brown: Ruadhri Brown from the Dublin Underground.
Karr: Thanks.
Jensen: These are life safety pieces of equipment and we don't take it lightly, in
terms of somebody just saying that it's a sprinkler system. We look for a
licensed sprinkler contractor to certify that.
Wilburn: Did you have any other comments that you wanted to add related to...?
Brown: I do have some other comments I want to add. Uh, to quickly review my
unusual situation, I currently have a sprinkler system. It was approved by
fire officials when it was installed. My occupancy is under a hundred,
which is supposed to be exempt from this new ordinance, but due to my
off-street level location, I am being categorized with the largest nightclubs
in town. I find it generous of the City, assuming you are going to offer
water hookup, and I would love to take advantage of that, but I have,
however, noticed that the parameters of this ordinance have changed with
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each meeting. . Sometimes upstairs businesses under 50 are affected,
sometimes they're not. Sometimes fraternal organizations are exempt,
sometimes not. Is it 300 and over, or is it 298 and over? Not to mention
voice alarms, exit widths, and I bring this to your attention because it
shows that there is room for adjustments in appropriate areas. Now, I
couldn't help but notice that this ordinance, there is a reoccurring line.
Paragraph 1, Section B, paragraph 2, Section B, line 2; and paragraph 9,
Section B, line 2, which makes a business inclusive, if, and I quote, "A-2
fire area has an occupant load of 50 to 298, and is located on a floor other
than the level of the exit." This line affects one business in this town.
That's the Dublin. All other off-street businesses are already over 100 in
occupancy. That would be Jake's, Yacht Club, Picador, or they are under
50, and that would be like the Press Box. So there is extra ink in this
ordinance that make my business inclusive, and I want it understood by
Council that those lines affect me and only me. It's in there three times. It
affects one business - mine! Uh, now because of the fact that I have
shown diligence in maintaining my current sprinkler system, not to
mention the fact that I have a fire exit for each 500 square feet of business,
I don't feel out ofline in requesting that those numbers change from 50 to
298, to 100 to 298. That would change the requirements of only one
business - the Dublin, and would effectively pull me out of a category of
the Unions, the Brothers, and the Field House and put me into the category
of 808, Deadwood, and Mickey's, where when the business changes
hands, or I do $25,000 in renovations, then I would be required to update.
Remembering all along that depending on my lease relationship with the
building owners, I would likely make the improvements to take advantage
ofthe City water hookup sooner, rather than later, and finally, I just want
to say that I do appreciate fire officials looking out for a comrtmnity, and I
always support improvement in safety equipment, but we can't lose site of
requesting unreasonable cost on an individual small business. Questions?
Wilburn:
Thank you for your comments.
Correia:
We took out the $25,000.. .it's not in there now. It's just change of
ownership.
Brown:
It's in the one I have.
Correia:
And then, we only do that if businesses included as affected is when we'll
do that water line work. I mean, or you're suggesting you'd like, and
maybe I'm just confused by what you said, that you would recommend to
change from 50 to 100 occupancy, but that you would like to take
advantage of water, if the water line is brought to your building.
Brown:
I would likely take advantage of that. That would be something, you
know, I am not.. .I'm not a property owner. It's something I want to
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Correia:
Brown:
Correia:
Brown:
Jensen:
Correia:
Jensen:
Correia:
Jensen:
Correia:
Cohen:
Page 47
discuss with, you know, my lease situation, and the building owner of
course.
Right, but I mean if your business, this would be my understanding, that
we would plan to bring the water line to affected businesses, and then if
you weren't an affected business, if you were written out of this, then the
City wouldn't be putting a water line to your business. Only businesses
affected.
Yeah, that's a big incentive. And that would make me interested in doing
it within three years, but I find it curious that I'm categorized with the
huge bars in town.
Well, I understand that, but if you'd like the City to bring the water line to
your business, you could do that within three years, then you would want
to stay with this ordinance, because we wouldn't pay the money to bring
the line to your business otherwise. Does that make sense?
I'd have to look at the details to understand exactly whether or not I
qualify for that or not.
What he's asking for, Amy, is to be moved out of the category number 2
on that sheet and put down in number 3.
Right, but we're not bringing water lines to any number 3 businesses.
That is.. .only if they sign up within the first three years.
Okay, so they do have the option of signing up in the first three years.
Anybody in here, oh, okay.
When you said affected, I meant that if they aren't required, there are
some A-2 occupancies that never are required to put sprinklers...I
misunderstood how you were using the word affected. Everything on that
page, 1,2 and 3, are affected businesses. Okay? Okay. (several talking at
once)
Gotcha.
Can I just take one moment and just briefly explain why we came up with
what we came up with here, and how we did, in talking about.. .we spent
hours upon hours on this, and the first is the larger establishments. Urn,
the first area that I think is pretty clear to everyone, we chose the three
years because of safety measures. We felt that five years was a little
extensive on that. So we went to the three-year on it. Urn, we did have
the 299 and more. One of the reasons would be because Jake's is 299.
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It's not 300 at this point and with the upper-lower level sort of thing we
felt that was necessary in there. The second group, including the above
and below, and certainly with Dublin Underground - one of the concerns
is that this is consistent with what will go on with the new. . .new
establishments going in, and the concern is, and I think how this came
about from day one, is above and below ground in multi-level, larger
places. So we thought it was essential that we do, and though Dublin is on
its own and kind of Sky Box is on its own, urn, in talking about it we
established that though it may be a small place of 50, they may have 100
people in there, the same as a place of 300 might have 600 in there, so it
didn't make it any less safe, urn, or any more safe. So that's why we
chose those, keeping in mind a large place in comparison to a small one,
the larger place may be spending $75,000 for a sprinkler system. A small
one if you bring the water to them may be spending $8,000. You know, so
there's a big variance on that. The third area that we came up with,
basically, and many of these people I think will take advantage of what we
had established as the 1 %, urn, from the City and bringing the water line,
the water main to the building. Some of them have them, but many for
instance, Mondonaro said he will take advantage of that while he can. So,
anyone in any of those areas can take advantage of that. The idea is to try
and get as many compliant as we can within this three-year period of time,
but remember that. . . that financing and the water main is only for three
years. It's not for the six years. It's not for any longer. So we did take
out, because it was far too confusing, urn, the $25,000 sort of thing that we
were talking about, urn, and we felt that this was fairly simple. That it was
fair to most involved. We've talked to many of the businesses and know
many would not like anything at all. We really felt that it was fair across
the board, and it was addressing the concerns in three years, is what that
was doing. So.. . are there any other questions on how that was kind of...
Wilburn: Thank you, Leah. Is the Council ready for...
Correia: I'm sorry. I have one other. . .
Wilburn: Go ahead.
Vanderhoef: I have more too.
Wilburn: Okay, go ahead.
Correia: Okay, urn, the, we talked earlier about for the package of fire safety
measures, one being the trained staff in the establishments, and so I know
we did, urn, training a year ago. Is there a plan to do that every year,
because staff change, refreshers are needed, I mean, I see that as being as
important as having the. . .
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Jensen: That is in the plan, Amy. It's already going forward. We conducted that
in, I believe it was late August, early September, 350 employees, and it's
our intent to do that again.
Correia: So that'll be sort of a every-year.
Jensen: It will.
Correia: Okay. Great.
Wilburn: Anyone else have a question?
Vanderhoef: Yes. Well, a comment as much as anything. When we're talking about
the above and below ground, there is a piece in the ordinance at the top of
page two, talking about the floors other than where the established bar is,
that must also be sprinkled because of the egress for a separate business in
one of those locations, and we have four establishments, urn, on our A-2
list being the Yacht Club, the Sky Box, Dublin Underground, and One-
Eyed Jake's that are associated with other independent businesses in that
building. Now in some cases it may be all under the same ownership, and
then again it may not. So here is a situation where, uh, we have a business
that's being required to, uh, sprinkle their business, but they're also going
to have to sprinkle someone else's business because their egress has to go
past, uh, this other business, and I find that, uh, I understand the safety
part of it, but I find that, uh, very difficult for one business to have to do
that for somebody else's business, and we certainly are not addressing the
ownership of these building and how this is all going to happen. We know
triple-net leases are common, but this is a permanent upgrade to a building
that doesn't leave if the business leaves out of a rental space, and I don't
know how to attack this, but it truly creates a lot more expense for a
business that may be very small.
Jensen: Do you all understand the safety reasons for that? (several respond)
Okay, Ijust wanted to make sure that's.. .so if, for example, let's take, uh,
the Sky Box, if the business below, uh, caught on fire, it would.. .and it
didn't have any sprinklers, it wouldn't activate any sprinklers, the floor of
the Sky Box could collapse and those people would not be notified, or it
could block their means of.. . ability to get out of the building, even though
the fire didn't start in their premises. So, it's important that businesses
that are, that are.. .have the ability to evacuate, and that's why that
requirement is there.
Champion: Well, then I think we ought to have it as part of our, I think the owners are
not going to be able to rent those spaces then, because you can't expect the
Dublin Underground to sprinkle two stories above him.
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Jensen:
Elliott:
Jensen:
Elliott:
Dilkes:
Elliott:
Dilkes:
Elliott:
Dilkes:
Elliott:
Correia:
Elliott:
Champion:
Jensen:
Page 50
Well, we're not requiring...it wouldn't, the building owner would be the
one required to do the work, but it depends on how the, it could be Dublin
being required if the building owner refused. That's correct. But it also
could be the building owner would do it too, so it all depends on how it's
negotiated.
I have a question for Eleanor on this.
Yeah.
Eleanor, is there any way that we can have, that we can require the
building owner, no matter what the lease is, to do something, to cover
some of the costs?
I think the regulation goes to the establishment, not to the...
So, we can't say to the owner, because you are renting to a liquor
establishment on the second floor, and that establishment has to have
sprinklers, you as the owner are required to place sprinkler systems on the
ground floor. We cannot do that? Or...
I'd have to give it some thought. I think that's.. .yeah...
It just seems.. . obviously, uh, these questions point to fairness, but the
fairness is if a fire breaks out below and bums the floor, the fairness is we
aren't protecting those people in the bar on the second floor, and I'm...
I think the more, what about just imposing the requirement on the
establishment below? Just like you've imposed it on the establishment
above.
I think something like that. . . we need to do something like that.
But then the establishment below has no.. .has no liquor license, but it
doesn't have the ability to have any say over what kind of business goes
above them.
I'd certainly like to inquire about the responsibility and the liability of the
owner of the building in these situations.
But this doesn't apply right now to the Dublin Underground and the Sky
Box and Jake's, right? They don't have to sprinkle above and below.
No, the.. .yes, it does require that (several talking at once). No, it's not,
it's always been in the ordinance.
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Vanderhoef: I just read it for the fifth time, and finally found it!
Jensen: No, it's been in the requirement from the beginning. It's never changed,
and I guess.. .go ahead. I mean, it's common sense that you have to have
that.
Champion: It's common sense when you point it out to me.
Jensen: Where this came in, and everybody's right, where this came in is when we
added the B occupancies that serve alcohol above or below. That was not
in the ordinance before. This is ordinance language for A-2 occupancies
when you have an occupancy above or below grade. It is required to be
sprinkled. We had to add the B' s in because that was your wish to add B' s
above or below that serve alcohol. We needed to add that same provision,
as what an A-2 has.
Vanderhoef: I understand why. (several talking at once)
Correia: Tell me the difference between an A-2 and a B.
Jensen: A B occupancy...an A-2 starts when you have a restaurant, nightclub, bar
that has a load of 50 or more. That's when your A-2 starts. They're B
occupancies from one up until 49.
Correia: So which ones are those?
Jensen: The B's?
Correia: Yeah.
Jensen: In this ordinance? There's one of them, the Sky Box. Dublin's has an
occupant load over 50, so therefore it's an A-2 below grade.
Champion: Are you telling me that the Dublin Underground will be required, not only
to sprinkle his bar, but the Pizza House above it, which probably is more
likely to start a fire, and the third floor? Is that, is that what you're telling
me?
Jensen: No.
Champion: Oh.
Jensen: No.
Vanderhoef: That's what it says!
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Jensen: You're required to sprinkle the fire area that contains the, the A-2
occupancy, or the B occupancy ifit's above or below. We'll use Dublin
as an example. The Dublin is underground, therefore the level of exit
discharge, the exit is on the first floor, so that first floor would have to be
sprinkled. That fire area should be contained within just the Dublin
Underground. So it's just the level of exit discharge, the first floor, and
the Dublin Underground, that would be required to be sprinkled.
Champion: So the first floor would also have to be sprinkled?
Jensen: Yes.
Champion: Oh, I can't support that.
Vanderhoef: That's what I have said!
Jensen: No, I understand.
Champion: I'm not using that in a nasty way. There's no way they can afford to do
that! And that means the Sky Box would have to sprinkle...
Jensen: The floor below it.
Champion: The floor below it. Well, we've got to throw those two things out! Who
could afford to do that?
O'Donnell: How is that different than sprinkling side to side, too? I mean, the one on
the side.. . (several talking at once).
Jensen: . . . through that other building, then you would have to sprinkle that other
building also, but you're not.. .this is an exiting issue.
O'Donnell: But it depends on where the door is. If you have a fire here and the door's
on this side. (several talking at once)
Jensen: If it was side to side, you'd be sprinkling the fire area next to you.
Correia: I understand where it is. I read it, but...
Champion: So Jake's would have to sprinkle what's below them, also. (several
talking at once)
Cohen: We never talked about this. And we were not aware of this.
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Champion: And I know Jake's is totally willing to sprinkle Jake's, because that's why
we lowered the number. He was totally willing to do it, but I think if
you're asking businesses to...
Jensen: Well, when you get into above and below it's more complicated,
obviously, and it's...
Boothroy: I guess I question if this is not new. Jake did get, or Mike did get a quote
to sprinkle his first floor a long time ago, so he knew it had to be
sprinkled.
Champion: Well, he.. .no, it's not new. He wants to do it because he can afford to do
it, obviously. He said he wants to do it. It needs it. So, I'm just using him
as an example, but I just think you'll throw those other places out of
business. I'm not going to do that.
Wilburn: I'm sorry. Comments off.. . your comments aren't being recorded, and so
we can't have folks talking off the microphone. Ifwe could temporarily
set this point aside. I'm trying to bring us somewhere here.
Elliott: Agree, let's find common ground first.
Wilburn: Urn, are there other, are there other questions beyond this one point, any
further questions in the ordinance? So I can see how much discussion,
more discussion we need to have, or whether this needs to be moved to a
work session again, or Council wishes to close public discussion, take first
consideration of the ordinance, or not, or first consideration and amended,
or not. So, is there, are there other questions beyond this one point that
was brought up?
V anderhoef: Yes. Urn...
Wilburn: How many more, how many more different points do you have?
Vanderhoef: It has to do with the loans, which are part of this big package.
Correia: I have a question about the loans too, but that's not part of the ordinance.
Boothroy: No. It'll be a separate resolution.
Vanderhoef: But if we put that together, I think there's an expectation from the folks
who are affected by this, that they want to know then what the money
situation. . .
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Wilburn: Before there's further discussion about that, are there other items besides
the loans and this most recent point - are there other items in the
ordinance?
Vanderhoef: I'll just point out in the middle of page two, there is one typo in there on
occupant load that says 298 that should be 299.
Bailey: That'll go anyway, because it's with voice alarms.
Wilburn: Okay. Are there any other items besides the loans? Okay. What's...
Boothroy: Can you give me a sense of what's outstanding then, with regard to where
you think you are?
Wilburn: Well, it would appear that there are further questions about the loans,
which aren't necessarily a part of the ordinance itself, but it may...
Boothroy: I'm talking just about the ordinance first.
Wilburn: . . .it may influence whether a Council Member or two is willing to, to
adopt the ordinance, and then the second piece is related to the B. So,
what is...
Boothroy: Is related to the Dublin and the Sky Box issue?
Wilburn: Yes, yes.
Correia: Also related to any above, I mean, an A-2 that is above ground. We were
talking about Jake's having to pay for sprinkling above.. .below them, or
another. . .
Vanderhoef: And the Yacht Club, too!
Correia: And the Yacht Club having to sprinkle...
Boothroy: There's a bar, I think Studio 13, above the Yacht Club, which is.. .it's
required to be sprinkled, but it's under the criteria three, which means that
it's not required until change of ownership.
Wilburn: Okay, let me try this. Is the Council willing to close the public discussion,
and if we move to first consideration at some point of this ordinance, or a
modification of this ordinance, and we still allow comment, public
comment, like I usually do, is Council okay with us closing the public
discussion part of this?
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Vanderhoef: I would put a motion on to continue the public hearing, until we get more
information and we get more settled on this part about sprinkling other
floors and to get the question Bob asked Eleanor about is there anything
that we can do that, uh, would involve the building owner, as well as the
business owner.
Wilburn: Eleanor, is that an opinion that you can put forward within the next
month?
Vanderhoef: I don't want to rush you on that, but...
Dilkes: No, I mean, I just need to give it some thought. Our whole system of, I
mean, our whole system is set up on occupancy permits to businesses.
Urn, you're talking about changing the whole relationship between a
tenant and an owner. Urn, it seems to me that typically when one leases,
in a triple-net lease, you are going to make the lease long enough to secure
your investment in that property, presumably. Urn, and so, I mean, this is
going to be a whole different kind of regulation, and I just, I need to take a
look at some things and give it some thought. Now, are you just talking
then about looking at an obligation imposed against the owner for this up-
down situation, or are you talking about looking at that for the whole
thing, or...
Elliott: My question, Eleanor, was if, if the operator of an establishment that is
above or below is on the basis of what we've heard required to sprinkle
not only his or her establishment, but that which would be above or below,
and therefore in jeopardy. . .
Dilkes: Right.
Elliott: .. .could we go to the building owner and say, because our ordinance says
that this person operating this establishment above or below requires
another, a dress shop or an ice cream bar, could we go to the, could we go
to the building owner.
Dilkes: And what if you do that, and what are you going to then prohibit them
from passing that cost on in rent to the tenant? I mean, that's, because
that's what they'll do, and that's governing that private relationship
between the tenant and owner.
Elliott: I'm just...
Dilkes: I think you're...I mean, I think you're on very...I think perhaps legally we
could accomplish it. I'm not certain you're going to accomplish much,
because I think it'll just be passed on to the tenant.
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Cohen: Leases, it just passes on. That's what triple-net means. If there's any tax,
anything put on a tenant, it passes on, or on the landlord, it passes to the
tenant.
Di1kes: I don't think that's going to get you very far. (several talking at once)
Correia: ...a friend who is a small business owner, not of an A-2 occupancy, we
have high rents in the downtown, and seems like this is only going to
encourage the increase in high rents, and then maybe decrease the variety
of businesses that we have.. .
Elliott: I think you and Leah have just answered my question, because of the
nature of the lease, it is stated that if the building owner incurs any cost
because of that business, it gets passed directly on through the lease for the
rent, and it appears you've answered my question.
Di1kes: I think that's probably what's going to happen.
Boothroy: And the other option, of course, is to change that language in the code and
not require that other area to be sprinkled.
O'Donnell: But what does that accomplish, if this is a safety factor?
Boothroy: Well, it does reduce it, no question. I'm just saying that you get your A-2
occupancy or B occupancy sprinkled. It's the highest hazard, it's the, it's
what we're targeting, it's the most concern. The likelihood of an ice
cream shop or a dress shop is far less of a problem, and so, I mean, that's
one way to look at it. I haven't discussed that with my colleagues here,
but I can see that, you know, it is different. Urn, it's not ideal, it's not
perfect, but remember, we're looking at retrofitting, and we're trying to
get the best system we possibly can, and get to where we need to get, and
so urn, we need to think about how to make this work.
O'Donnell: I feel like tonight that we're starting from square one again. We're down
to two things, but 1...I think this needs to.. . and I think we need a work
session on it. I'm just. . .totally upset with this (several talking at once).
Champion: .. .part of the, let's get something passed. Let's amend that part of the
ordinance that eliminates the need for those people to sprinkle all over the
place, because they just can't afford to do it, and at least we get something
sprinkled.
Elliott: I agree, Connie, and, Mr. Mayor, if we could, if we could find those areas
where we have common ground. Let's at least take that first step and do
that. Let's not leave tonight. . .
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Champion: . . . without at least passing something.
Boothroy: Can I offer something? Is there, is there any desire.. .would there be any
desire to, uh, eliminate the Sky Box and the Dublin from having to
sprinkle. I think they're probably the only two in number 2 that would
have an occupant load of less than 100. I have a problem with not
requiring that on a place like One-Eyed Jake's, that has 300 people above
the first floor.
Champion: Okay, I'll move that we amend it to eliminate the Sky Box and.. . (several
talking at once).
Wilburn: I need to...
Boothroy: How we would do that, we would just. . . we would just amend saying that
in existing A-2's and B occupancies with an occupant load of99 or less,
above or below, would not be required to retrofit the level at grade with
sprinkling. I think that catches those two.
Bailey: I would really like to do something tonight, but with this, with half of it
crossed out and.. .I just think we need a clean copy...
Dilkes: Can I make...
Bailey: Go ahead, Eleanor.
Dilkes: I think, I mean, I do think tonight it's just first reading. We can clean up
minor things in the next two readings, but if you tell, if you give us the
substance of what you want to change by amendment, I think we can then
make those changes to the ordinance. I don't think you need to tell us,
you know, I want to eliminate Section 903.21 blah, blah, blah, and as I'm
hearing it, it looks like you're.. .what a majority of you are wanting to do
is adopt the ordinance with the following amendments, no voice alarm
requirements, urn, eliminate the language that requires sprinkling of above
or below areas, and change it Number 2 from the memo to eliminate the
sprinkling requirement on... the six-year sprinkling requirement, on
businesses with occupancies of 99 or less, above or below grade.
Boothroy: I didn't get that number three. I think there were just two issues, Eleanor.
Your first. . .
Wilburn: That's correct, and uh...
Dilkes: I thought you were just talking about eliminating Dublin Underground and
Sky Box?
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Champion: This is why we need. . .
Boothroy: That's exactly what it would be. It's just that. But that was included in
number two.
Dilkes: Okay, so let me restate it. No voice alarm, eliminate the language
requiring above and below sprinkling, and remove by whatever language
you believe appropriate the Sky Box and Dublin, no?
Boothroy: No, we're not eliminating the above and below sprinkling.
Jensen: We're still sprinkling the Sky Box and Dublin. We're just not requiring
them to sprinkle the first floor at the level of egress.
Dilkes: Oh, okay.
Champion: And changing the number to 99.
Boothroy: And also, that second issue is for 99 or less.
Vanderhoef: So you're keeping Yacht Club and One Eyed Jake's in...
Boothroy: Because of their high occupancy.
Jensen: Because of their higher occupancy.
Dilkes: Oh, okay, all right.
Wilburn: I need to back up for a minute here. Urn, because we don't have an
ordinance on the floor at this time, and I'll go back to my question so that
we can get an ordinance on the floor, if that's what Council is desiring
tonight. Is Council willing to end public discussion, consider, uh, do a
first consideration of the ordinance, whether it's amended or not...
Champion: But people can still speak, right?
Wilburn: People can still speak. That's my question. Dee has already said that she
is not willing to do that, that she needs.. .so I'm asking.
Vanderhoef: We need loans first.
Champion: Oh, yeah, we need to discuss those first, but I'm willing to do it tonight.
Wilburn: Okay.
Correia: No.
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O'Donnell: I'm not.
Wilburn: I'm willing - that's three.
, Boothroy: Bob raised his hand.
Correia: I don't know. . .
Wilburn: Yeah, Bob, yeah, that's three.
Karr: The question is with the discussion.
Wilburn: If people want to end the public discussion, and move on to first
consideration of the ordinance, this evening and there were three of us that
said yes. Oh, Elliott, Wilburn, and Champion. If there's, ifthere's not a
fourth, then I'm going to come back to, urn, should we move on tonight,
go ahead with. . .keep the public discussion open, and discuss these other
issues at the next work session.
O'Donnell: I'd like to see that.
Correia: Not discuss.. . (several talking at once)
Wilburn: Urn...
Vanderhoef: Move to continue the public hearing.
Wilburn: It's public discussion.
Correia: So we're done talking right now?
Wilburn: That. . .I'm just trying to find out if people want to. . .
Bailey: I'd like to be done talking right now.
Wilburn: Do you want to close the public discussion part, put an ordinance on the
floor to discuss the changes that some people were wanting to make?
Champion: Yes.
Wilburn: Or not. And if not, are we going to continue with this discussion tonight,
or (TAPE ENDS) .. .three of us who are not. So, just waiting to hear from
you, Amy.
Correia: Well, I'm.. .I'm not clear about what we...
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Wilburn:
Boothroy:
Wilburn:
Boothroy:
Bailey:
Cohen:
Bailey:
Boothroy:
Wilburn:
Correia:
Champion:
Page 60
There was, there was not support to have the voice alarm, and there's
actually question.. .there was comment raised about eliminating the
sprinkling the floor above. I didn't hear whether. . .
Our intent would be to amend the code so that the, the A and B
occupancies that, we'll just talk.. .Sky Box and Dublin Underground as
examples, they would not be required under the amendment to sprinkle the
area of exit discharge.
And I heard that Connie was not, or was interested in having that
removed.
And we're doing that based on their low occupancy, but we're not willing
to look at the higher occupancies. As a matter of fact, there are, with
exception of One Eyed Jake's, there aren't any others.
I need a clarification. Are you completely eliminating section, the section
at the top of page two, or are you just taking out Dublin and Sky Box?
They're just taking out, and can I say, this is a surprise, this is a surprise to
all of us. I think it is not right that we come here, and then all of a sudden
we have this worked out, we have agreement, and we come here and get
this thrown at us. It's not fair for those other businesses that aren't even
aware of this. You know, is the landlord going to require it of, I don't
know who's below Jake's, or who's below. . . who else was involved that
would have to, even with their new proposal. This is not right, guys, to
keep doing this, and then having these businesses affected. They aren't
here. They don't know what on earth's going on. I mean, it's.. .we had
come to this simple agreement, and now this gets thrown at us, and that's
very aggravating to me right now!
And that's why I think we need a clean ordinance, put it out, let people see
it, and then we know exactly what we're talking about.
Well, that's what we'll do for the next meeting. We keep trying to do that,
and unfortunately it's a complicated document and, and I'll apologize for
not making that clear, but we.. .we thought it was clear.
Okay.
That should have been clear for us who don't really understand. Area
of.. .you know, where exit...
I understand why you have it in there.
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Correia: I do understand, but...
Boothroy: And we're willing to make, make the adjustment, as.. .get back to where
we were when we came through the door tonight. So... uh, we did feel
that we negotiated properly.
Cohen: But the sheet is inaccurate then that says what has to be sprinklered. That
sheet is inaccurate because it does not include those...
Wilburn: Okay, I think, Leah, I think you've made your, I think you've made your
point.
Correia: I guess I just also want to just clarify.. .so the Yacht Club, the business
above them is Studio. . .
Boothroy: 13.
Correia: 13.. .so they're, they would be required, I mean, then I would say that if
the business above is another A-2 establishment, they should both...
Boothroy: Well, the reason we're willing to make this distinction is based on the
numbers of people impacted. Both the Sky Box and the Dublin have a
very small occupancy.
Correia: No, I understand that part. What I'm saying is that if the business above
another bar is also a bar, that would be required at change of ownership to
do sprinkle, but the Yacht Club is going to be required to sprinkle that
establishment. That seems a little bit unfair for one A-2 occupancy to
have to sprinkle the A-2 occupancy above them, which would have to do
with themselves ifthere was no bar below them. So I would say...
Boothroy: That's a requirement in the code now for new uses. So if a bar were to go
in, uh, if the Yacht Club were new today, and Studio 13 was there, they
would be sprinkling Studio 13 and the Yacht Club. That's no different
than what we've.. .under the present code. What we've done is we've
applied. . .
Correia: This doesn't make sense! I mean, I understand that part of it. Ifit wasn't
a bar, then I understand that they would sprinkle that business. (several
talking at once)
Champion: . . . then we need to add if the second or third level above you, or below
you, is another bar, it has to sprinkle itself.
Boothroy: Well (laughter)...I think you can clearly draw the line (several talking at
once).
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Vanderhoef: I move that we continue the public hearing to. . .
Boothroy: We can talk about this issue specifically.. . okay.
Wilburn: It's been moved by Vanderhoef to continue the discussion to the, what's
the date? The 19th, urn, and seconded by, who seconded? Seconded by...
Karr: Amy seconded already.
Wilburn: Seconded by Correia. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign.
Atkins: You realize you moved that to the 19t\ not the work session.
Karr: We have to continue, it's an agenda item. They continue to a formal.
Wilburn: I'm sorry, Bob, did you say no? Okay, urn, it carries 6-1. Chair will
entertain a motion to defer the ordinance.
Vanderhoef: So moved.
Wilburn: Moved by Vanderhoef.
O'Donnell: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? There has been a request to have a
clean copy of the ordinance, with those areas of apparent...
Dilkes: As far as I can tell tonight, the only issue that we have agreement on is to
remove the voice alarm requirement, because I don't think we know what
we're doing with the other issue.
Wilburn: That's correct. So a clean copy with that section removed. Okay?
Dilkes: Now, would it be helpful to have, I know you've been doing all of this at
your formal session, but.. .do you want to do some of this at the work
session so we can maybe hammer those issues out, and maybe get a clean
ordinance.. .on the 19th?
O'Donnell: I think it's a very good idea.
Wilburn: We did, I think it would be a good idea. We did make an informal
agreement that we would not discuss this outside of the public discussion.
In other words, not at the work session, urn, but if that's the desire of the
Council. . .
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Bailey: Doesn't seem like it's working very well.
Boothroy: No.
Bailey: So let's try, let's try a different approach.
Wilburn: Okay, so we will still have public discussion on Tuesday with a clean
ordinance, and.. . (several talking at once).
Boothroy: Can I ask you about the incentives, because I know Dee brought that up.
Can I get a reading from you. . .
Bailey: ...I mean, can we just have a memo on the incentives and talk about it at
our next meeting?
Wilburn: Let's talk about it at the...
Boothroy: Want to talk about it then?
Wilburn: Yes.
Boothroy: Okay, well, I was willing to.. . okay. I'm going to assume that when I talk
to the bar owners that we're still talking about the same incentives at this
point.
Wilburn: At this point, yes.
Boothroy: Okay.
Elliott: We do applaud the fact that, uh, the firefighting staff and others on our
staff met with the bar owners and operators, and carne to really a pretty
good understanding. There was a little chink that arose, but I think that's
where we get things done. If you folks sit down around a table, and
discuss it, and corne back to us. I was really pleased. I thought it was
going to happen tonight. Hopefully it will happen next time.
Boothroy: Me too!
Elliott: Yeah, I bet you do!
Vanderhoef: And, I would like to encourage those folks that don't speak at the work
session, please give us input prior to the work session, and we'll have that
on the table to talk about at that point, and certainly you will have your
opportunity at the public hearing the next night.
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Wilburn: Urn, it was moved, and urn, seconded to defer. All those in favor, defer
the ordinance, all those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign. Carries 7-0.
Dilkes: Can I just say one thing about the incentives, just to make sure that we
have it out there before.. .so we don't have confusion about it.
Wilburn: Go ahead, go ahead.
Dilkes: Is the issue of security for the loans, and the need to, that we're going to
have to secure those loans, unless you tell us you don't want them secured,
and we're generally going to have to do that by a mortgage on real estate,
either that's on the business, and if they don't own it, on their home or
something to that effect. We're not in the position to be bankers and
determine whether someone has a, a adequate income stream to support a
guarantee secured loan, that kind of thing, so...Ijust want that to be clear.
Champion: Could they have a letter of guarantee from a bank?
Dilkes: That might be a possibly, yeah.
Wilburn: Okay, thank you, Eleanor. Okay.
b) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
(DEFERRED FROM 4/16,5/1,5/14) REVISED ORDINANCE
INCLUDED IN COUNCIL PACKET.
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ITEM 14 COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS.
Wilburn: Last night at the work session, there was an informal agreement to appoint
Florence Ejiwale to the Human Rights Commission. I'll entertain a
motion to accept that.
Champion: So moved.
Wilburn: Moved by Champion.
Correia: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Correia. Discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed
same sign. Carries 7-0. The other appointment was to the Housing and
Community Development Commission. I have a conflict of interest and
cannot participate in that appointment because it involves the, that
committee involves the awarding of Community Development and Home
Funds, and I work for an organization that receives that and cannot vote on
that.
Bailey: Last night at our work session we informally agreed to appoint Rebecca
McMurray. I'd entertain a motion to do that.
Vanderhoef: So moved.
Correia: Second.
Bailey: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Correia. Any dIscussion? All those
in favor say aye. Okay, motion carries 6-0 with Wilburn abstaining due to
conflict of interest.
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ITEM 17 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Wilburn: Amy?
Correia: I just want to let folks know that the Youth Advisory Commission had
their big volunteer effort this weekend at the Arts Fest. They had a table
in the Global Village. (noise on microphone) on their plan and they did a
really great job executing it. They had volunteers. They had a really nice
table, urn, thank Marian for all of her work with them, helping them get
materials ordered and things like that, so a really great job and great job to
them.
Vanderhoef: They were working hard when I walked past.
Champion: I'm just going to comment on Craig's request for sidewalk days to be four
days. In all practicality, it is. Everybody puts their stuff out on Sunday
also, so it might be a change in the ordinance, but it's not a change in
what's happening.
Vanderhoef: And I think it's okay.
Champion: .. .where they walk, but we'll have four days of sidewalk sales because we
basically d have four days.
Correia: Should we put that on.. .do that next time?
Wilburn: Okay.
O'Donnell: Nothing tonight.
Wilburn: Dee?
Vanderhoef: Pass.
Wilburn: Okay. Regenia?
Bailey: Ijust want to congratulate Summer of the Arts for a wonderful Arts
Festival. It was terrific and I think very well attended, so good job there,
and then yesterday I attended a memorial service for Helen Finken, and it
was really crowded and it was really great to see how influential a teacher
can be in the lives of so many different people, and Helen was a wonderful
woman. She was my ih grade social studies teacher and I know that she
will be missed.
Elliott: It just. . . if anybody is still watching, and if they are, I wonder what in the
world their life is like (laughter) but I would like to apologize that we have
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taken so long. There's not a single person on the staff or on the Council
that hasn't been very sincere and very concerned. It's just a terribly
perplexing problem that we're trying to get up to. Other than that, to Jim
Roberts, peace and courage. That's it.
Wilburn:
Condolences out to the family of Steve Fox who died a few days ago, a
long time University staff member and community volunteer. His time,
energy, and efforts will be missed. I also want to congratulate the
Summer of the Arts with the Arts Festival and looking forward to the
upcoming Jazz Festival, June 29th through July 1 st, and look forward to
hearing the Beaker Brothers on Friday night, by weather dance fountain,
and Saturday night the movie "In and Out," rated PG-13.
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