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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-06-04 Transcription June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page I June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Bailey, Champion, Correia, Elliott, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn UISG: Volland Staff: Atkins, Dilkes, Elias, Fosse, Franklin, Hargadine, Helling, Karr, Morris TAPES: 07-39 Side 2, 07-43 Both Sides. Plannin2 and Zonin2 c) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE VACATING A PORTION OF HOLLYWOOD BOULEVARD LOCATED SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 6 AND EAST OF BROADWAY STREET (VAC07- 00001) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin: Ok. This will be really quick. Item c is the second consideration on a vacation of a portion of Hollywood Boulevard. You've been requested to expedite consideration of this. d) AUTHORIZING CONVEYANCE OF A VACATED SIX-FOOT (6') WIDE PORTION OF RIGHT-OF-WAY LCOATED ALONG HOLLYWOOD BOULEVARD SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 6 AND EAST OF BROADWAY STREET TO NORDSTROM OIL COMPANY. Franklin: Then the following item, which is the public hearing on the conveyance would occur tomorrow night, assuming that you do expedite consideration on item c. And that's conveyance to the Nordstom Oil Company for the 1,059 square feet at $13.65 a square foot. f) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT OF PEPPERWOOD PLAZA, A SUBDIVISION OF IOWA CITY, IOWA. (DEFERRED FROM 5/14) Franklin: The next item that we can talk about tonight is the Pepperwood Plaza subdivision and you have a resolution approving the preliminary and final for the Pepperwood Plaza subdivision. Basically, this is not going to result in any change that will be perceptible to the naked eye, to anyone who is just driving by. Wilburn: So you say. Franklin: So I say. It essentially is outlining lots for sale and then there will be outlots that will be held in common for parking and circulation. It's just a different way of configuring the subdivision, or the development. Vanderhoef: I - Correia: There's nothing new being proposed to go up. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 2 Franklin: Pardon me? No, what I'm saying is that what you see in terms of the development of Pepperwood Plaza is going to be the same as what you would have seen before. Correia: Ok. Franklin: What this sets up is a different ownership regime such that there are lots and then common areas as opposed to all being held by one entity and then leased. Vanderhoef: Orient me on that map, please. Correia: We don't have a picture on. Franklin: Ok. The top is Highway 6. Highway 6 up here, Broadway is over here. K Mart. Slumberland. I knew that was gonna happen. Correia: The little pointer thing. Vanderhoef: Ok. 1- Franklin: Ok? Do you know where it is now Dee? Vanderhoef: Yeah. Show me the drive into those lots to the north. (laughter) Franklin: Ok. I'm gonna try this sensitive little pad again. Thank you. (laughter) Elliott: To the rescue. Bailey: A conflict of interests. Champion: Good citizen! Franklin: Depend on the private sector. ?: Always working. Franklin: Ok. This is the entrance. Bailey: You have an interest here, right? Franklin: Entrance to Highway 6 and then you drive in down here, you go to Slumberland, this is the drive that crosses over between Keokuk and Broadway, ok? Vanderhoef: Yeah. Got it. Correia: Then what's different? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 Franklin: Champion: Correia: Franklin: Bailey: Frankl in: Bailey: Correia: Franklin: Correia: Franklin: Correia: Franklin: Correia: Franklin: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Franklin: Wilburn: Bailey: Franklin: City Council Work Session Page 3 Nothing. Nothing. Oh, ok. What's different is that these individual lots, the K Mart lot - well, yours is kind of funny too Glenn. The K Mart lot, this lot will be for sale. This is where the Taco, Taco something is. This is Goodwill. Is there anything there? Ok, outlot. And then this is the existing development that you see with Slumberland, etc. So the outlot - go ahead. The difference is that all of this parking area and circulation will be held in common. Ok. So those two outlots are currently parking lots. Yes. But can, will- They can then be sold for - which they could have been before. They could have been leased before is what would have happened. Instead of being sold. Ok. And those are essentially the only two outlots left for development? Everything else, you're going to convey the parking lot or what's already there? That little thing there behind the open area, there, right on the corner. Behind like where Mayor's Youth is? Just north across Park and across from Neighborhood Centers. Uh huh. Mmm hmmm. That could be developed. Ok. Ok? Questions? So the parking, the parking lots will be held in common, so they can't be sold now? Right. It's like - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Bailey: Franklin: Bailey: Franklin: Bailey: Franklin: Correia: Bailey: Franklin: City Council Work Session Page 4 Have that much parking? Right. Ok. There's a parking easement, cross-access easement that's park of the subdivision papers. So those could not just be sold off for development. That's a lot of parking. Yes. But it's been greatly improved by the plantings and circulation system that has been put in since the renovation's been done that we supported with a TIP tax rebate. I'm sorry. She was doing this. What, what was the question and what was your answer? I said a lot of parking, she says it's been greatly improved. By the tree plantings and the circulation, the bus shelter, the renovations that they've done which was part of the TIP tax rebate agreement. Correia: Gotcha. Ok. Champion: Ok. Franklin: Ok? We done with that? Correia: Mm hmm. Wilburn: Yep. Franklin: Ok. I'm done. Thank you. Wilburn: All right. Thank you. Bailey: Thank you. Council Appointments Wilburn: Bailey: Vanderhoef: The next item up is Council appointments. The first, we have two Council appointments this evening. The first is to the Housing and Community Development Commission which, I have a conflict of interest because I work for an organization that receives CDBG and/or HOME funds, and can not make appointments to the Committee that decides that. We have one applicant, Rebecca McMurray. Could we get a rundown on what the breakup, breakdown is on this committee? How many businesslbanking, those kinds of folks do we have? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council rneeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 5 Bailey: We don't really look at that for any other committee. Vanderhoef: Well, I do, because it's heavily involved with money and outcomes. Elliott: I agree. I thought when I was on there it was very helpful to have people who were very knowledgeable, had working experience with loans and that sort of thing. Bailey: Marian, do you have that information? Karr: Not on me. Bailey: Ok. Chuck, do you want - (laughter) Karr: I certainly can get you the breakdown, but not off the top of my head. We have a breakdown of males and females but not occupations, without some notice. Vanderhoef: I would like that before we make an appointment. Correia: Oh. Well I, I mean I think, you know, we have staff that provide really good, I mean, they have training and certification in the types of financial packaging that this usually handles. I mean I feel confident in their ability to make decisions - Champion: We don't - you know, also we don't have any list of requirements to be on a committee. Bailey: Right. Vanderhoef: I know, and this is something that we did- Champion: So if that's something you want to look at later, but I think this person is qualified. Bailey: She has a masters degree in social work. I mean, she has dealt with budgets. Champion: Yeah. Right. O'Donnell: I'd like to recommend Rebecca. Champion: I'll second that. Bailey: Do we have four? Correia: Yeah. Vanderhoef: Yeah. That's fine, if - Elliott: I would like to, I would like to, the next time this comes up, I would like to have an idea of the kinds of backgrounds that are- This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 6 Champion: We need to do it, if you want a list of backgrounds - Bailey: Well do we want to do that for every - I mean, that's. I mean, all of our commissions do important work. I mean. Elliott: I think it's especially important for this one, and it might be a good idea for others, for some, for a couple people to take a look at what kinds of experiences we would like to have represented on those commissions. Human Rights, do we need legal? Human Rights, do we need social work? O'Donnell: We could have a punch list for that Bob, but I think that would greatly reduce the number of applicants we have. Elliott: Well- Bailey: Do we have some concerns about the way this has been operating? I don't. Vanderhoef: We've had over the years on this particular commission, and so we have looked at it, but usually when we've looked at it it has been when we've had more than one applicant. Bailey: Well, I, you know, certainly since I've been on Council I haven't noticed any challenges. The numbers seem to come in accurately and there seems to be good, substantive discussion about funding. Correia: I mean I do think that we have really good financial policies in place governing these funds and they look at pro formas and our City staff have the certification necessary to make sure that the numbers all make sense, so I - Elliott: But when it comes to loan arrangements, types of evaluations, I would like to have somebody on there who has, who makes a living doing that. Vanderhoef: Doing loans and so forth. Bailey: Do we have 3 people who are interested in - Elliott: As opposed to someone with academic knowledge. Bailey: Do we have 3 people who are interested in looking at this in the future? Correia: Yes. No. Vanderhoef: I am. Bailey: One, two. O'Donnell: I'm not interested. Bailey: Ok. O'Donnell: You know, this is an advisory committee and 1- This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 7 Elliott: We went down in flames, Dee. O'Donnell: Yep. V anderhoef: Well, on this - Bailey: To keep things moving - remember our late- Vanderhoef: On this, on this particular thing I think Ross could probably - could Ross speak on whether to discuss the makeup of the committee? O'Donnell: No. Champion: No. We voted it down. Vanderhoef: Not by name. Dilkes: I don't think we should start splitting hairs when it comes to whether he deliberates with respect to this commission or not. Vanderhoef: Ok. Bailey: They're all yours. Take them away. Elliott: See what you started Ross? Wilburn: Next up is the Human Rights Commission. There are 3 applicants for one vacant seat, unexpired term. Kristi Lohmeier, Florence Ejiwale, and Joan Black. Bailey: I think we'd be lucky to have Joan Black if she'll have us. Vanderhoef: I do too. Correia: Well 1- Wilburn: Yeah, I agree. Correia: I think Joan Black will be great as well. I've known her for a long time. I do know, and this is a commission where we do look at diversity. When (can't hear) Kross goes off the commission there are no people of color left on the Commission and there are other folks that have sexual orientation as their issue, so. Ok. Champion: Well, that's a consideration. Correia: So. And I do know that Eric recently resigned from the Commission so there is going to be another opening probably in the next round. And I think both Florence and Joan have similar backgrounds in the community based on their experience. O'Donnell: I'm fine with Joan Black. I think she'd be a tremendous asset. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 8 Champion: I don't have any objections to Joan Black, but I would like to have a person of color on that Commission. Wilburn: One other option if another opening is coming up might be to talk to Joan about reapplying. Karr: We keep it on file for 90 days. Wilburn: Ok. So we could, she wouldn't need to reapply - we could. Karr: Not if it's, I haven't- Bailey: Or Florence. Wilburn: If, depending on when that resignation comes in. Correia: I thought I saw it in the packet, actually. Bailey: It is. Wilburn: Is it? Oh yeah, it is in - yeah. Vanderhoef: Yeah, it's here so it's coming right up. So if we want to take Joan Black right now these others will be, will be there for the next round. Wilburn: We probably can't just make that appointment? Bailey: You have to advertise. Karr: No, that would - Wilburn: I was just trying to be efficient, that's all. (laughter) Bailey: Good luck. Champion: Well, I would like, like an Amy's Florence, because I think that's really important in this Commission. And Joan can reapply later. Wilburn: Two for Florence? Champion: Count heads. Wilburn: How many for Florence? A show of hands? That's 3. How many for Joan? That's 3. Bob, what say you? Elliott: Ah, the first one. Florence. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Wilburn: Champion: Wilburn: Elliott: City Council Work Session Page 9 Florence? Ok. Did I pronounce it right? Florence Ejiwale? I don't know. I'll have to ask her. Have to ask her. Ok. We will make the formal motion. I was waiting for the dramatic impact. Recvclin2 Center Wilburn: Morris: Wilburn: Morris: Champion: Morris: That works. Recycling Center. Hi. Easy. Usually Marian is the keeper ofthe lights. Oh, I'm sorry, Marian. She has a lot of jobs. Hello, my name is Kumi Morris, I'm the Architectural Services Coordinator for the City, and I work for the Engineering Division. I'll be presenting the East Side Recycling Center today and the update for the new plan that we have since you've seen it from last November. Jennifer Jordan, our Recycling Coordinator, is also here. She's sitting in the back, and she will discuss programs and services if you have any questions about those elements, but I'mjust going to present the architectural elements and if we decide to get into those services then Jennifer will be able to step up here and address those. So what we see up here is a view of the whole site from the southeast. In the forefront we have the bioswale area and the future education area. This is the plan that you saw last November and it was a preliminary study plan. There has been some modifications to that plan. which you'll see in the next slide, which is the proposed site plan that we have at this time. Modifications include the moving of sand and storage and the education area. The sand storage area in the previous plan, I'll switch back to that just quickly here, was number 9. We have moved, we have decided to move that to the west side of the site. And previously we had the education area to the, on this south component of the facility, and we have decided to move that as part of the bioswale area to incorporate it as a more integrated facility within an environmental setting. Other changes in this site also include - we have reorganized the oil drop off as well as the compost and the wood chip pickup stations and we've also included a small storage facility on the end of this row of facilities. Moving along, this is a view from the southeast. It's a typical inexpensive pole metal construction. We've decided to use recycled 100% steel in the facility. We've found that it's not much more expensive to do so and so the entire building will be made out of recycled steel will typical pole barn construction. It will be basically an unheated warehouse. The salvage barn will have a small heated office and you'll be able to see that. It will be the second facility just to the west. The building will have translucent skylights. You can see that on the top here, on the top of the roof of the facility and for This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 10 natural day lighting, and the spaces will also have solar-powered fans to exhaust excessive heat gained during the summer months. This is the view from the northwest, ofthe wood chip and compost pickup and small storage. The single building steps along Scott Boulevard to resemble multiple buildings to break up the fayade. It will have a farm-like aesthetic similar to what we see at the landfill presently, and it's a reference to the landfill that the City, City buildings that are already there. The building will use reclaimed telephone poles with metal and translucent panels and louvers to allow heat to escape, and you can see that here in this drawing. Vanderhoef: It's what? I didn't catch that. What was that last statement you made? Morris: Oh sure. It will have translucent skylights with ventilated louvers and we'll be using reclaimed telephone poles. The pickup stations will have metal overhead doors - you can see these spaces here - and will be scaled for dumpster access and drop off. This is the view from the southeast and what we see here is part ofthe present building that's out there for Habitat's Re-Store. This is a view of the future Habitat Re-Store and electronic waste drop off, with a new skin and face to tie it to the new facilities to the east and also a 20 by 14 foot entry addition to accommodate the commerce function and an ability for Re-Store, who is going to be the keeper of the site, their ability to monitor the entire site. This also includes a loading area to the west - you'll be able to see that. And again, this is the covered drop off area. This is Re-Store, this is a birds-eye view from the southeast. This image also shows the square footages that are part ofthe new facilities. You'll be able to see that the Re-Store will have an expansion of3500 square feet. We will also accommodate Salvage Barn with 4000 square feet. The Re-Store entry addition will be about 280 square feet. This is a view from the south. You get a better perspective of what the electronic drop off area will be like and the curb pickup and drop off and the overhead door. This is a view from the northwest. You can see the loading dock just to the north of the facility. This is to accommodate drop offs and pickups for Re-Store as well as the Salvage Barn as well as the electronic. The electronic waste uses a commercial organization to come and pick up electronic waste, and so they'll be able to back up using the loading dock from the north, not getting into the public access way. This is a view of the education center. It will be, as I said, housed on the east tip of the site. And it's going to be directly implanted in the bioswale region of the site. It will be, have a similar construction with recycled telephone poles with exterior roof support. The structure with overhangs designed to shade the classroom area. So it will be both classrooms - the facility was designed to have classrooms to be able to house outdoors and this north area of the building, the doors will open fully to be able to have an indoor and outdoor classroom. We have learned recently, actually just today, actually Jennifer has learned that we have received a grant of$7500 towards the bioswale project. It's from the Improved Iowa Urban Storm Water Control Project. And so, we're on our way in terms of being able to access grants and also being able to receive them. This is a plan at this point for the education center. As you can see we have a classroom with about a thousand square feet. It has fairly flexible seating and table arrangements. You can see that there, we have a folding display wall and we have fenestration of windows all around the circulation of the closed in building. We also have a displaced shelving area that is always available to be able to be seen by the public even when the building is closed. The outdoor education as I said was just to the north of the enclosed This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Champion: Morris: Bailey: Morris: Bailey: Morris: Bailey: Morris: Bailey: Morris: Jordan: City Council Work Session Page II classroom area, and this facility also includes a kitchenette, storage and mechanical space, and rest rooms for the public. You can see that just to the north side of the facility. Weare also looking at this time into possibly an interior stairway to a roof garden access. We're considering, we're considering a green roof space as an experimental space, but only on a small portion of the building, and to use that as a possible education element and also to see how it really does function and save cooling systems and so forth compared to the rest of the facility. Here's a view from the west. I quite like this view because you can actually see how the building is on poles and raised above the bioswale. Another view from the southwest. This is a view from, if you're coming down Scott Boulevard, just from the north. And again, back to the whole site. At this point, we have found that from the initial study and to where we're at now, is that we have about, the estimate for the total project is about 300 - excuse me, $3,144,831.25. It's about a hundred thousand dollars above where we were at from last November after more exploration about what to do about the site and how to do the staging and planning. We're finding that certain elements cost somewhat more than we had expected, and other things, such as the bulk water station and the concrete washout station were considerably less. And so we're staying within the ballpark of what we were looking at from last November. And I'm now open for questions. Well I, you know what - I don't know what a bioswale is. It's basically a managed storm water area that uses plantings and uses the soil as a way to clean the site runoff, water runoff. I don't remember. Did we talk about using permeable concrete blocks for the parking, driving area, or will that be regular concrete with, you know, the runoff? We, we will be using that in the parking, actually, we're going to be experiment with that. Here, I'll go back to the first part here. Excuse me while I flip through these slides. I'm very interested in that. Sure. We're going to experiment with a permeable concrete paving area just to the north of the bioswale. The rest of the site at this point will be regular concrete paving. Do we anticipate if this is a quote good experiment with concrete block that that would be something that we could incorporate in other projects within the city? Absolutely. And then who, besides using the classroom space for, I'm assuming recycling field trips and those kinds of things, will the classroom space be available for community groups? We have a huge lack of meeting room space in Iowa City. Sure. I'll let Jennifer address that question. That was definitely a factor in, first of all, moving the site over to where it's at. With the school groups we had a concern that on the southeast corner here, excuse me, southwest This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 Bailey: Jordan: Bailey: Elliott: Jordan: Elliott: Jordan: Elliott: Jordan: Elliott: Atkins: Wilburn: Atkins: Elliott: Atkins: City Council Work Session Page 12 corner. Down underneath #2, that if trucks were coming around the back side of the site they'd be crossing from the education center into the bioswale area to see what was going on there, so that was a major factor in moving it down there. Also, the parking where we have it here now with the building we thought would be great for meeting spaces and having, inviting other groups: neighborhood associations, city meetings, all kinds of different stuff into the educational center. You anticipate it will be free of charge or there will be a charge? I mean, how? That's pretty far down the road, but make it free. Yeah, we really haven't talked about it a whole lot. There's been a little bit of speculation but nothing certain. Ok. Thanks. Initially, what's the population you're looking at for the education process? Initially. Initially I would say school children. School children. Grade school. Yes. Also I think there's a huge potential in opening the site from just kind of the initial recycling center to include the storm water and more of an overall educational function now. I think there's a great potential for a regular public to be there and also contractors with the storm water aspect. So we've worked with curriculum people in the local school districts regarding this? Ah, not the school district so much but we have worked with the recreational facilities within the City to see what they currently offer and we've worked with them to kind of mimic what they've used. I guess if the initial population is schools, I'm kind of disappointed that we haven't been working all along with the school district, ifthat is our initial population, and I would certainly suggest that it would be good to at least make contact with them to gauge their interest and let them know what's available and so they can be making some plans and perhaps working that into their curriculum development. Bob- I don't know if that's entirely. Yeah, I was saying appreciating Jen- Pardon? I can't think ofthe fellow's name. He was a science coordinator at the school system. I want to say Bill. We had talked with him at the time we were putting together the recycling component out at the landfill and we've had an informal relationship with them, the school district, for many years. This I think is going to help formalize it. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 Elliott: Atkins: Elliott: Jordan: Champion: Elliott: Bailey: Jordan: Atkins: Champion: Jordan: Champion: Bailey: Champion: Jordan: Champion: Bailey: Jordan: Elliott: Correia: City Council Work Session Page 13 Good. I just, I just think when we do things like this I would like to look at it as a cooperative partnership project. And that's clearly the intent. Good. Good. And I didn't realize that relationship had been made, so thank you. It'd be a good place to put service organizations to meet and have their little brunches out there. Programming. Yep. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've talked many times about how we can open this up in the evenings for such groups as well. Bill Dutton. I knew it - he retired a couple years ago. The science coordinator. Is there any recyclable use for #6, like Styrofoams? I mean, do we collect #6? I know City Carton does not. The official answer to that is we take numbers 1 through 7 except for Styrofoam and plastic bags. Ok. That's exactly why people are wanting a place to get- Plastic bags too. I've gotten some letters on - they love what San Francisco is doing. But there might not be a market for it. I don't think there's much of a market. I've heard that City Carton is exploring the possibility, but I'm not sure quite what so - And Styrofoam packing. And it bans the use of plastic grocery bags within the City. Well there's definitely a reusable aspect there but not a recycling aspect in town at this point. I mean, Styrofoam peanuts can go to any of the shipping places in town, they happily accept those so they don't have to purchase them and whatever they take in they can resell so - The plastic - Hy-Vee recycles plastic bags. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Wark Session Page 14 Champion: No they don't. They collect them for you. Elliott: Plastic bags are invaluable if you have pets. Champion: Oh yeah, and they go to the landfill then and then we have like more diapers. Elliott: You've answered this question before, but do people need to make appointments to bring out hazardous materials such as maybe bags of salt, paint, turpentine, oil- call for an appointment. Jordan: At the landfill, yes. The facility here we have plans to do occasional collections which they will most likely at this point need appointments as well. It's been a pretty successful system since we've done almost 10 this summer now. And we've taken in quite a lot of material doing that. Champion: You know, Bob - Jordan: Dave, did you have something to add? Elias: I was just going to mention that we have had - Wilburn: I'm sorry, you're going to need to come to a microphone. Otherwise your comments don't exist. Elias: I'm sorry, I was just going to mention we have had some contact with Southeast Junior High and their science program and the proximity to the site is real accessible to them. Elliott: Good. Thank you. Vanderhoef: Can you show me the circulation for vehicles in there? Because I seem to think that 5,6 and 7 at least have vehicle drop-offs so they're backing, doing a circulation around in there and then is there another one in the corner by 1A and B I guess that is? Jordan: I'll let Kumi address that. Morris: Sure. What our plan is is to have commercial and public works vehicles that are going to access the salt storage, bulk water, and concrete wash off go through the north entrance and circulate around the site. And those will be during the daytime hours and generally not on weekends, and we expect more visits from the public coming in to the south entry, and you can see the parking area right in here and the circulation should flow around in this area and as such. This is the recycling bins and to access the compost and wood chip pickup they would be able to backup to those units and access those sites. Vanderhoef: Well that's where I'm looking at - is there really enough space there to keep that traffic flow at the drop-off bins and somebody else backing up and moving into those spaces? Morris: We did, we've done extensive pattern studies with this with? in terms of access and drive throughs. We've moved this around many times to see if we were able, if we were able to get that backup and also have parking accessible. And so yeah, we've done quite a bit of studies. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 15 Vanderhoef: So there is. It just looks awful tiny. Morris: I know. It's a very, it's a very, in terms of a site to try and accommodate as much as we are, it's a fairly tight site. I think our, obviously the largest visitors from the public will probably be on Saturdays and Sundays and that's where we'll be able to see how this traffic flows. Vanderhoef: But the Re-Store is open 6 days? Morris: I believe the Re-Store is open, yeah, but they're open to the public for shopping from Tuesday through, is it Thursday through Saturday? Bailey: I thought we asked them to be open 6 days. Vanderhoef: I did too. Bailey: That was a contractual arrangement. Jordan: They're open for donations Monday through Saturday and they're currently open Thursday through Saturday for sales. They're working on increasing that as far as I know. Correia: They're going to be there the 6 days so. Jordan: They take donations anytime. Correia: We were talking about the shopping hours, which is kind of different. Jordan: And I'm not sure if the difference is spelled out in the contract. I can look into that, certainly. Bailey: Yeah. Because that's not what I remember. Wilburn: Maybe you can collect some more information. It may simply be at this point a staffing Issue. Jordan: It could very well be. They work very heavily or rely very heavily on volunteer staff, so. Wilburn: Ok. Other questions? Ok. Thank you. Bailey: Thanks. Wilburn: Next item is Fight Night. We do have- Morris: Oh, hang on one moment. I'm sorry. We wanted to give you a take-home packet of some of the images. Bailey: Oh great. Morris: So that you can take a look at that at your own leisure. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 16 Bailey: Do we get compost, too? Morris: What's that? Bailey: Last time we got compost. Wilburn: I was gonna ask is this more compost? Bailey: Can we get more dirt? Jordan: No more dirt. Bailey: Doggone it. It's very good for my plants. Wilburn: Thank you. 4f(4) Correspondence: Leah Cohen: Fight Night Wilburn: The next item up is Fight Night. We do have something in the consent calendar, item 4f(4), a couple new articles that were submitted. We also have a memo in the information packet from Eleanor, IP2, with some comments that we requested of her to consider. I also noticed that Chief Hargadine is here, who's had some officers direct observation. So I don't know if Council wants to start hearing from the Chief or? Vanderhoef: He's already up. Elliott: Chief is up and running. Bailey: He's up -let's hear him. Wilburn: There you go. Elliott: Let's do it. Bailey: He wants to go home. No PowerPoint? Hargadine: No PowerPoint. Bailey: I don't know. Hargadine: You can get a demo. Champion: Got any graphics? Hargadine: Good evening. We did have a couple of officers stop by the Union Bar and talk with management and both, we've done it a couple ways. One of them was in plain clothes and the other was in uniform, where they obviously knew who the police were. Normally, and this is kind of a synopsis of what we observed. Normally cover is about $10.00. If you declare at the door that you're a fighter, than the cover is fee free. If you have already This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Bailey: Champion: Elliott: Dilkes: Hargadine: City Council Work Session Page 17 paid the cover and you decide to fight, than the cover is refunded. Usually a fighter must declare the style of fighting that they want to participate in. There's boxing, submission style and ultimate, which is like no-holds barred type fighting. You're weighed and matched to an opponent by weight and fighting style. That's the basic premise to this. It's pretty simple actually. It, oh - there was, do they do breathalyzer? Do they determine whether somebody is intoxicated? They do not breathalyze. Ok. But they do say they don't. If somebody is intoxicated, I mean, that was some communication that I had. But they don't actually know for certain. There's no way that they can know for certain. They're taking it on the participant's word and observation. And their observation of the person. I know that after the fact, we've had several reports from emergency rooms on Wednesday nights. By the time they make it to the emergency rooms they're generally quite intoxicated. Where they and when, that's not been investigated. Do you know what the injuries were at the emergency rooms? Usually it ranges from stitches to concussions. But with this waiver of the cover, aren't we now talking about professional fighting? Technically? No cause they don't - they- I'd be interested, because Eleanor's memo said something, either the slightest possible compensation. Yeah, and, and since we made those reports based on what the police were observing to the athletic commissioner he has had a conversation with the promoter about that and that is not, not supposed to be occurring any longer. And that's something that ifit does occur the athletics commissioner would take up. What I thought I would do is take you to the professional side before you kind of go over to the amateur side. On the professional side there's what's called the MMA - mixed martial arts or ultimate fighting. And this has got to be a multi-million industry ifnot billion dollar industry. And this is just on some preliminary internet work that I've done. I've not done extensive research, but I know these bouts take place in Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Japan, Paris, Russia, not to mention cities throughout the US. In the middle of all these multinational deals is Iowa's own Monty Cox, who is here with us tonight. The amateur fight night is a feeding venue for potential clients for him. He already has a stable of champion ultimate fighters and is well thought of in this industry. These professional fights can be seen on ESPN, Showtime, Pay-Per-View, just to name a few. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 O'Donnell: Hargadine: O'Donnell: Hargadine: (laughter) Champion: Hargadine: O'Donnell: Hargadine: Volland: Hargadine: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 18 Contrast that with Iowa, who has no real professional Major League baseball, basketball or football venues. There is some minor league hockey and baseball, but we really don't have a full time athletic commissioner like you would see in other states. There was an attempt at legislating this this past session, however, it failed and the primary person that was lobbying for that was the Iowa Labor Commissioner or the Iowa Athletic Commissioner. It's one and the same. Presently there are no rules at all on the amateur side of this. It's heavily regulated on the professional side, but no one's there to watch. There is no real commission. At these amateur events there have been some of the professional fighters that are there assisting with the fight night. They usually assist with running the events. One of my greatest fears out of all of this is that these professionals, when one of these professionals decides to fight on the amateur level for whatever reason, whether it be for a tune-up, rehab. An unsuspecting amateur is going to get the pounding of his life. Has that happened, to your knowledge, Steve? I'm not aware of it, but I think the potential there exists. We've already seen some rule bending. I think the potential is certainly there. Is that - you mentioned weight and fighting style. Skill level is not taken into consideration? Every guy thinks he's the toughest guy out there. Who do you know who - How do you measure that beforehand? Well, you can have a third degree blackbelt or a purple belt, whatever it is. I mean, is that not taken into consideration? I think they look at the style of fighting, whether it's taekwando, kung fu - I mean that's considered. This mixed martial arts, it really doesn't matter what the martial art is, because they combine it with boxing, jujitsu. Some of the better successful professionals have come from a jujitsu background I think. So it really doesn't matter what the style is because they end up wrestling, they end up boxing, they end up kickfighting. You compared this to professional sports. I'm wondering if you're implying that this is like a farm league, like Iowa has a, you know, the Iowa Cubs. So are you suggesting that this would be a farm league that would be - I'm suggesting that this is the motivation to put one of these on is looking for potential talent. Eleanor, if! could clarify something. In your memo you said complete prohibition of fighting in establishments with an alcohol license would be preferable to an attempt to regulate the fights. Are you talking about regulation or a prohibition of amateur fighting? Because we couldn't regulate, or we couldn't prohibit, correct? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 19 Dilkes: The memo is addressed towards possible regulation of amateur fighting. I don't think there is - the regulation of professional fighting is done at the State level and I'm thinking that. Wilburn: Right. Dilkes: And it doesn't look like that's really the need at this point, because the current fights that are going on, there's a definite attempt to avoid being regulated as a professional fight. Wilburn: Thank you. Go ahead Chief - Ijust wanted to clarify that. Hargadine: And other then questions I'm done. Bailey: Is this the, I mean, is this the only instance of amateur fighting that we know of that' s occurring in Iowa City? Hargadine: In Iowa City, yes. Bailey: Ok. Correia: Do we know this is happening in other cities? Hargadine: It is. Bailey: In Iowa? Hargadine: In Iowa. Bailey: And how are they addressing it? Do you know? Do you have a sense? Hargadine: I do not know. Dilkes: The only - I sent out an email to the attorneys in the bigger Iowa cities that I communicate with and the only one that had any experience with it was Dubuque and they did prohibit elimination fighting I guess is what they called it. Vanderhoef: But they still have other kinds of fighting? Dilkes: I think so, yeah, but that was the main problem that they had. Champion: So, this is amateur fighting, obviously, but people are paying to see it, because they're paying a cover charge to get into the Union. O'Donnell: The boxer's not getting anything or the fighter's not getting anything. Correia: Is the cover charge higher when there's a fight night than other nights? Hargadine: I don't know. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 Correia: Hargadine: Bailey: Volland: Correia: Volland: Wilburn: Bailey: Champion: Correia: Champion: Correia: Bailey: Wilburn: Wilburn: Bailey: City Council Work Session Page 20 $10.00 seems like kind ofa high cover charge. I mean, I haven't been into- I'm told that it is. Is it a high cover charge? No, usually it's about $5.00 - it depends on how busy the bars are, and I'm guessing they're pretty busy on fight night so they probably- They charge more. Yeah. Also special holiday event type things, Mardi Gras, etc. those are - Tend to be higher cover is what I thought. Well, I'm not interested in banning amateur fighting in Iowa City, but I am interested in banning it in an establishment that serves alcohol. Me too. Because I do think that testosterone and alcohol don't always mix real well and that people could be making bad decisions. But and we have - So are there - go ahead. So what you're saying, that that would - I'm sorry, this is a Council work session and comments from the audience if you wish to make a comment to the Council, we do have a period of time on our formal meetings, which is Tuesday nights where anyone can address an item that's not on the agenda. This is not an item that will be on tomorrow night's agenda, so ifthere' s anyone here present that would like to make a comment about our discussion, your reaction or further information you would like to give the Council, I invite you to come tomorrow at 7 o'clock and public comment is one of the first four items on the agenda, so you can do that then. Another reason for that, this is the Council's work time, but also, comments that are not on the microphone do not appear in the transcript and for anyone in the public who wishes to - (cut off - end of tape) . . . and correct me if I'm wrong, is that by banning amateur fighting where there's a liquor license it could occur in other venues in the community. If a professional wanted it to occur in, even in a establishment with a liquor license it would be under state regulation and so we would not be getting in that direction. I have a, there's another question I had along those lines. Ah, I'll let someone else go. Maybe it'll come to me. I will. So you're saying that you think there are situations in which we don't have a problem generally with amateur fighting. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 Champion: Wilburn: (laughter) Bailey: Wilburn: Dilkes: Wilburn: Dilkes: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Wilburn: Bailey: O'Donnell: Champion: O'Donnell: Champion: O'Donnell: Champion: City Council Work Session Page 21 Well, I would always have a problem with it, but I think there are people out there who don't have a problem with it and I can't inflict all my views on everybody. Oh, I know what I thought! That we should inflict them. No- Not related to inflicting anything on anyone. What about we, an area of our liquor licensing, there is I believe written in there the possibility that someone can allow someone, this is sort of unrelated, but after the 10 0' clock hour if a liquor license holder petitions the police chief that they would want to have essentially an alcohol-free night, that they could remove the alcohol, not serve the alcohol that evening. And then people under 19 could get in. Could something similar be done like this so that if they wanted to petition the police chief - if we banned it not only in liquor establishments but if they had an arrangement with the police chief that no alcohol were served that evening. Is that a possibility Eleanor? Yeah, I think we do something like that in our under-19 ordinance, where you can get an exception to the under-19 ordinance for a specific period of time where you're not going to be serving alcohol. Right, that's what I was getting at. And I think you could do something similar. So that could, in terms of size of venues where this might take place, if there were no alcohol served that evening, it would still be possible for someone to - I'm just going to brainstorm and thinking of different scenarios. I don't know what that would accomplish. You know, conceivably you could go next door to the Pizza House and set up a ring then. Well- Well exactly. You could go to Connie's dress shop and have a fight. I don't think so. Well. We've been fighting over clothes, but- Do you have an alcohol permit? No. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 O'Donnell: Wilburn: Correia: Wilburn: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Elliott: Correia: Elliott: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Champion: Correia: Champion: Bailey: City Council Work Session Page 22 Then we could have a fight there. W ell like - Well that's what Connie was saying. Yeah, that's what she's saying. That's ok with her. She was saying prohibit in alcohol establishments; in other establishments it would be no prohibition. See, my concern is the - But Ross was going further. Ross was saying that, for instance if someone has a huge backyard and wanted to set one up in the backyard, would we by law prohibit the consumption or sale of any alcoholic beverages in that backyard. Without a license. Or are you saying just not in established bars, because it sounded like you were going a step beyond. That wasn't, that wasn't necessarily the direction I was going in, but I was just trying to think if someone is really believing, if someone believes that they want to promote this type of development and eventually even some type of farm system, it wouldn't prohibit them from supporting the event. They have to, the concern here is the mixing of alcohol with the fighting. I think the concern is the lack of regulation. Lack of regulation, yeah. I mean, I know your concern, you said the mix, but I have a fundamental concern with the lack of regulation. Mmm hmm. I mean, if you're matched only by weight and fighting style, that's a whole lot hurt waiting for somebody. Well I have a problem too Regenia. I don't disagree with you. I mean 1- It just - oh- There isn't regulation. They're not checking these kids. I mean obviously they didn't - I guess anybody who fights can end up in the emergency room. True. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 23 Vanderhoef: The public safety piece of it, which is what I see as our purview, is this what we want happening in our City? Bailey: That's exactly the question I have right now. Vanderhoef: And that is where I start looking at it and when I look at some of the complaints that we get about things that happen in town and are related to violence or potentially violent situations. And I think we've heard a couple reports of this going on out to the street and to say that our city wants to promote a public violent kind of thing where it entices other people to say well then let's you and I go out there if you're not going to do it in the ring in the bar. Elliott: Well Dee, we bring in 70,000 people six times every Fall for an event that's pretty violent. Bailey: Pretty regulated, though. Correia: Regulated, in pads and helmets. Elliott: But - I have, I'm like Connie - Bailey: I mean, it's not my favorite thing in the world, don't get me wrong, but it's pretty regulated. Elliott: No, no, no, but I have a problem with passing laws to save people from themselves. I never did like the seatbelt law. When I'm forced to wear a seatbelt when if! don't I can be of no further harm to anyone else whether I'm wearing a seatbelt or not. We're trying to save these people from hurting themselves, and I think it's kind of up to them if they want to hurt themselves. O'Donnell: You know what thought Bob - in the downtown bars we've said no to pyrotechnic displays. We've said no to kids putting whatever they put in their mouths and they blow it out and it's like a flameblower - whatever that is. I don't know what it is. We had that. We had somebody get injured doing that. So we do regulate stuff like that. It's just- Elliott: That's public safety though, Mike, that's not personal safety. We're trying, these fighters, we're trying to save these fighters from themselves. I'm not sure I want to be involved in that. Correia: Well - O'Donnell: Well no you can't - I don't think that's the case Bob. If that were the case we'd only have one-story buildings and we'd drain the river because you could fall in or fall off the building. But you know, it's just the case that we have had people who have had to go to emergency rooms and I don't know the severity. I asked skill level here - that weight and fighting style. There's tremendous difference between somebody who has had 40 fights and somebody who has had 4 fights. Champion: Or none. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 O'Donnell: Elliott: Correia: Hargadine: Champion: Correia: Hargadine: Elliott: Champion: Elliott: Wilburn: Volland: (laughter) Bailey: Volland: Dilkes: Volland: Wilburn: Elliott: City Council Work Session Page 24 And I don't know ifthat's taken into consideration. And I, government isn't supposed to interfere every time they can just because they can, but it seems to me like this could prevent something that could happen. I guess - Well, and I also take Dee's point that this, and we've already seen and heard that this has spilled out into the street and that - We have no evidence that - That would only be hearsay. Hearsay, ok. Yeah. And I don't think there's been an incident where the combatants continued it on. There have been times where disturbances have occurred within the bar. Bar staff have been able to control it. You would have those in the same bar without fight night going on, so it's kind of tough to make the nexus that this is because of fight night. Summing up, I guess I don't think it's appropriate for a bar. I'm not sure I want to say you can't do it anywhere in the City. Well that's my whole point. I agree with you. I would agree with Connie. Connie, it's scary, isn't it? Other opinions or thoughts? Eleanor, I had a legal question. If you're drunk, does that void the contract? Complicate it? I'm just trying to get to the alcohol point, because alcohol obviously lowers your inhibitions, makes you do things you normally wouldn't do, but I'm just wondering how that effects the contract that the person signs. (not on mic - can't hear) Ok. Any other questions or thoughts? I'm interested in hearing from the promoters of this tomorrow night if they show up. I say again, I just, to me, I think it's kind of stupid, myself, but I'm an old codger. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 Champion: O'Donnell: Correia: Bailey: Hargadine: Elliott: Wilburn: Bailey: Champion: Wilburn: Bailey: O'Donnell: Bailey: Champion: City Council Work Session Page 25 Mike, how do you feel about it? I know you don't like it. Are you willing to say not in an alcohol venue? Do you want to eliminate it totally? I don't know. I too would like to hear from the promoters tomorrow night. You know, my first reaction is downtown in a bar where, you know, it gets kind ofrowdy without watching somebody pound on each other. I just, I just - I've said all along I don't know how the alcohol and the fighting ever can mix. We have communication from members of the Alcohol Advisory Board that are concerned, is that correct? Do you have a recommendation? I think the blend of putting amateurs in with professionals is a bad idea. I think the bar establishments have enough time keeping track of their own liquor rules that they need to be enforcing. Add that, add a new element - my recommendation would be to ban it from an establishment that sells alcohol. They want to have it in any other venue, possibly even a City rec center, they could do that, but take alcohol out of the mix. We agree with the Chief Connie. There's a, there's a - I mean, there's a part of me that, I'm not a fan. I've seen some of the events on television. I'm actually, my father was a professional boxer actually, for a short time, but this is all in the state of Illinois and there is regulation and those types of things. But for folks who do prepare themselves as an athlete and have training, those types of things, I think that's one thing. I wouldn't necessarily want to be in the way of allowing that to be created somewhere, but I do have a problem with it occurring in an establishment. And so without crossing the threshold of the City getting into regulation which I don't think we should do, I guess I would be in favor of looking at, you know, drafting a ban in the liquor establishment and then seeing what type of reaction we get from the public. Yeah, and I would minimally go that far. But also the whole thing that you talked about, the hypothetical of having a dry night - if an establishment has a liquor license, I would go so far as to ban that kind of event at that place whether they're serving or not. Totally. So if you possess a liquor license - Y es. Yes. So the Union Bar can give up its liquor license and become a venue for fighting or it can no longer have fighting at, that would be the tradeoff in my mind. Or you can have 21 beers at the bar next door and go in and watch the fight. There's always a way around something. Right. That is going to be the case and that's why I was more leaning towards banning it altogether. That's always going to be the case. We hold the license, so that would eliminate - the Union Bar would not give up their liquor license for one night a week. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 26 Bailey: Right. Elliott: Well it beats duels, that's what we used to do- Correia: Well you couldn't do that. Bailey: You couldn't do that is what I'm saying. Correia: Regenia is saying no exception. Champion: Exactly. I agree. Yeah. Bailey: I would certainly go that far. I would even go farther. Wilburn: No, I understand what you're saying. Bailey: But it doesn't sound like there's a lot of interest in going- O'Donnell: Well how far would you go? Bailey: I'd ban it. Vanderhoef: I'd be in favor of banning it totally rather than deal with this. Ijust think it's violent and we don't need it. Wilburn: Ok. Bailey: Boxing is one thing. This is another. Wilburn: Well, there's a minimum of four, so I presume the next step is direct your office, Eleanor, to draft such a regulation, ordinance. All right. Elliott: Banning it in bars. Wilburn: Yes. Champion: Any place that has a liquor license. Bailey: Has a liquor license. Champion: Well you know the other thing Dee - we may not like boxing or kick boxing or some of the sports that we considered violent. When they're regulated I still think they're violent, but I used to love to watch Muhammed Ali fight. (laughter) Bailey: I used to watch boxing. When it's regulated it's a different thing. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Champion: Correia: Wilburn: Correia: Champion: Elliott: Hargadine: Elliott: Hargadine: Wilburn: Hargadine: Vanderhoef: Wilburn: Elliott: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: (tape turned off) City Council Work Session Page 27 I don't want to regulate people out of something they enjoy. I want to make sure that it's handled in a more proper way I guess. Well I do, and this is just, I do think there is a difference between an athlete who is training in a sport like taekwando, who participates in competitions and matches, and somebody who shows up somewhere some night and decides they're going to fight in a ring who is not training to be an ultimate fighter. And I don't know what mix of people are athletes and do taekwando and go and participate in ultimate fighting or are there and on the spur of the moment decide. Well and even if they were to do that, that crosses the line of us starting to have the City regulate. Right, right. Which is why it feels like a different type of a sport then. To me it seems more about theater and entertainment than any other type of amateur athletic event. Entertainment. We ought to call Gulfport. Are you familiar with Gulfport, across from Burlington? No sir. This sort of thing used to happen there with some regularity. I wonder what they did about it. Well, I wish you could see one of these on a professional basis. It's not like boxing, it's not like wrestling. No, it's not. Yeah. Of all the different people that I would want to tussle with the least, it's one ofthese guys. I think we see more than an amateur when we look at some of the movies that you see the action scenes with some of those kinds of activities there. Ok. All right. Thank you Chief. Thanks. Thanks. Take a quick break, keep moving on. Let's take ten. Good. Quarter to. Deer Task Force Decision This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 28 Wilburn: Deer Task Force Decision. Elliott: I read the minutes of that meeting and I wasn't sure what their recommendation to the Council, whether they were recommending taking themselves out or not. I read it and reread it and reread it and I couldn't figure out what they were saying. Atkins: Ok. Well I read it and then I asked Kathy, I said tell me what your understanding was. It was a 3 to 2 vote, but a majority ofthe task force said we want to go out of business. Champion: They want to do a commission? Atkins: No. Correia: I thought they - oh, they want to go out of business or they want to be a task force? Atkins: They want to go out of business. Bailey: If we're not going to do bow hunting- Vanderhoef: Consider bow - Atkins: And it's down to bow hunting. Champion: Well yeah, hire your own deer kill. Correia: Well that sounds fine to me. Bailey: I think yeah, move it to an administrative function that annually contracts with sharpshooters. Atkins: And then you as a Council can vote it up or vote it down when you do budget review. Bailey: Exactly. Champion: I think it's a good idea. Wilburn: And we still have the management plan. Atkins: Yes, we'll still- the basics of the plan are satisfactory. Correia: Sounds good to me. Elliott: If that is their recommendation I'd go along with it. I don't, I don't, I understand why they're doing it. Atkins: Yeah. Elliott: Because two years in a row we have negated their recommendation and that of the State Commission that's in charge of it. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 29 Atkins: Yep. Elliott: We have said that we know best. Atkins: That's right. Elliott: I don't think we do but that's what we've said. Wilburn: I'd love to see the State Commission take charge of their deer. (laughter) Atkins: It would seem - Vanderhoef: Well, they would open a whole lot more (can't hear) for hunting, I'm sure. Dilkes: Well we still have to get by the State Commission. Bailey: Right. Atkins: So you're ok with the recommendation? Bailey: Yes. Champion: Yes. Atkins: We'll take care of the paperwork end of the thing. Ok. Champion: It's a task force. It's supposed to be dissolved after a certain period. Bailey: Well, it's just frustrating. I don't like- Vanderhoef: The only piece that is still not being addressed that the Commission was to do and has done a lot oflooking at was the educational piece of how to quote live with the deer and the kinds ofplantings and those kinds of things. Those are in the plan but there's no one headed for it. Bailey: Maybe we could do a small grant to Project Green to do some educational outreach. They do great - Atkins: Yeah, that sounds- Champion: Great idea. Bailey: That's a natural group. Also very active. Vanderhoef: Who? Wilburn: Project Green. It's a great idea. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Correia: Bailey: O'Donnell: (laughter) Old Bus Depot Wilburn: Elliott: Bailey: O'Donnell: Wilburn: Champion: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Correia: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Wilburn: Atkins: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Vanderhoef: City Council Work Session Page 30 Proj ect Green. They had that big sale. Where, where did they have that sale? Ok. Old bus depot. Tear it down or leave it alone? Tear it down. Sell it. Tear it down. Tear it down. Can I abstain? We've got three tear it downs. Part of the campus. Tear it down. What's the difference between tearing it down and selling it? Could you just move it? I'mjust saying that we- I would really encourage you not to sell it. I would just as soon leave the building up as selling it. It fits within the overall, sort of our campus plan. Let me just ask a question though. We complain about the University taking things off the tax roll and we've got three blocks in downtown Iowa City of very valuable real estate. I think our footprint should be the smallest of anybody's. I mean that's just a philosophy that I have, but it's a huge impact. I think we're, are we not the County seat? Yes. This is not County buildings. No but a lot of- But we're always complaining about other people taking stuff off the tax rolls. County has taken more off. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 31 Correia: We haven't complained about- Vanderhoef: Along with the - Correia: What did you say? Vanderhoef: I said the County has just taken more off to make their campus even bigger. Bailey: I know. It's disgusting. Correia: But do we have a plan for this as part? Bailey: I'd rather develop a plan before we tear it down. O'Donnell: Well if you develop a plan and it's gone your plan is out the window. I think it's good planning to have this in the campus area. Bailey: Fine. I don't think I'm gonna get four, three other people to go along with you know, selling it. Elliott: I would. Ifwe don't put the homeless shelter there I say sell it and have it tax producing. Correia: I'm with you. I go for putting the homeless shelter on it. Elliott: I would either put the homeless shelter there or sell it. Bailey: Well a homeless shelter is not going to generate any tax revenue either. Elliott: No, but that's the only, that's the only- Champion: I think they looked at that site. O'Donnell: It's not big enough. Correia: They could go up. Champion: But what about, don't we have to clean it up first? Vanderhoef: Well the County wouldn't go up when we suggested they put it with their County building. Correia: That's different. Vanderhoef: How? Champion: Can we postpone this and find out if they're - Vanderhoef: No, it's all human services. Atkins: Yes, of course you can! We've been doing it for years. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 32 (laughter) Bailey: Oh, ok, wait. Obviously there must have been a plan if we wanted it for the campus. What was the original plan for that spot? Atkins: It was a bus depot. Bailey: No, no, no, no - you must have had a plan for that spot as part of that campus. Wilburn: I thought, I thought conversations were related - Vanderhoef: The plan was - Atkins: It was intended that the three blocks that you know of, the City Hall complex, rec center, and Chauncey Swan area, would all ultimately be owned by the City, those three blocks. Bailey: For what end? Atkins: And as property- Bailey: Is there a plan? Atkins: There's no formal plan. The only other piece then - at one time we were talking with the folks at the Unitarian Church, yeah. And they were interested in moving and that ratcheted up and I'd expressed to them some interest in the City purchasing it and they decided that they didn't want to pursue that any more. And that was years ago. Bailey: Well if it's going to be part of a campus I think it should be used for a public, a very public, public purpose similar to the rec center, or put Finance over there and let people pay water bills and have a drive through window. You know, very public purpose, not just quote office buildings. Not administrative function. Vanderhoef: We've always talked a bit about expanding the rec center functions into potentially a mixed use building. Correia: That was - Vanderhoef: But we don't have enough classroom space for a lot of the programming that happens on the main floor of the rec center plus have all of the offices there. So how could we do this as a mixed use building and make sure that we get enough classroom space for the rec center program? Bailey: Well, and I thought it would be a great spot for a mixed use building that would accommodate a farm, a year round farmer's market with a community kitchen, I think that's a good idea too. But fundamentally, the tax roll issue always hits me up front. Wilburn: How about we do this- Bailey: A drive through community kitchen. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 33 Wilburn: Write your- Correia: Rock, paper, scissors- O'Donnell: What a wonderful life ~e have. Wilburn: Write your creative ideas for a campus type use of that area, get it to Steve. Steve, work with staff to come back with we tear this down, here's a potential direction to go. Atkins: My overall, overall- the initial intent here is to tear it down because it's ugly. A boarded up building, clear the site; that does not preclude you - Bailey: Not until you have a plan. Wilburn: That's what, ifthere's at least some ideas there- Correia: I think we need to tear it down. Wilburn: Then we might have enough to tear it down, here's what I'm getting at. O'Donnell: I think we have enough to tear it down now. Vanderhoef: I think so too. Correia: I think it should come down. Does it have cleanup needs? Wilburn: There are three, there are three - Vanderhoef: For tear it down. Wilburn: For tear it down. Correia: Tear it down. O'Donnell: Tear it down. Bailey: What are you gonna do with that space? Vanderhoef: Tear it down. O'Donnell: Tear it down. We've got four. Bailey: You're just gonna park cars on it. It's gonna become an ugly surface lot. How much prettier is that? Elliott: Well, even a parking lot would look better than what it is now. O'Donnell: I think if you put a dead tree there it'd be better. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 34 Correia: We could put bikes. Champion: You have no vision. Bailey: Why do you always want to kill trees, Mike? O'Donnell: I said put a dead tree there. Bailey: Killing the trees. Champion: I mean I - Correia: It could be, it could be - there could be basketball hoops there. So extend the rec center base until we - Champion: No, wait. Don't laugh - please don't laugh at me again. Atkins: Ok. (laughter) Vanderhoef: C'mon Connie, we needed a laugh! Help us out. Bailey: I do like the building. Champion: I would not tear down the building until we decide if we're going to sell it, because I think the building is adorable. Not now. Bailey: I do - I like this building style. Champion: But it could be totally adorable. Bailey: And what's gonna happen to the bike library if we tear that down? O'Donnell: I thought there were four. Are there four? I think there's four. Wilburn: There were four and then people started talking. Bailey: I want to know what's going to happen to the bike library. Wilburn: Were you one of the four? Elliott: I don't know. Champion: No. Wilburn: You weren't one of the four. Ok. So there were four. Champion: I want to abstain from that vote. Bailey: Wait, wait, wait - does that mean Wilson's building goes down? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Champion: Correia: Champion: Atkins: O'Donnell: Wilburn: Correia: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: (laughter) City Council Work Session Page 35 No not at all- Wilson's building, we have no place. Right now the Wilson's building is full with a variety of uses. We have our police evidence- Tear it down and use it for bike parking. That's what Ijust said. Oh, speaking of parking - There could be some murals, we could do something with murals. Well, you know what, if we're gonna sell it though I think we should keep the building. Because it could be a really cute business. It's got parking. If- We're not gonna sell it. There are four people that want to tear it down. There were four people that were willing to tear it down. No one would buy that? Rehab it? I would still, I would still recommend these ideas that you're throwing out now since some people threw out concerns about the amount of time we have tonight. There's four that say tear it down. Continue to give your creative ideas to Steve. May I ask another question you destructionist? Sure. Bailey: Are we gonna plant grass there then? At least have a green space as we wait for brilliant visions? Wilburn: I was ok several weeks ago when we did this when you said let the farmers' market use it. Vanderhoef: That's what I said. Correia: Go put tents up there farmers' market. And parking. Wilburn: I was fine with that. I'm fine with bike parking. Correia: Maybe hopscotch. Wilburn: I'd even park my bike there and lock it up. Correia: No? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 36 Bailey: I think liability. Correia: Hopscotch maybe. Champion: All right. I'm not going to be a part of this. Bailey: I'm not part of it either. I like the building. Champion: I love the building. O'Donnell: Tear it down Steve. Wilburn: I think you had some creative ideas there. Maybe, even though you're not gonna be a part of it I would encourage you to still get your ideas to the City Manager. Elliott: I would. Vanderhoef: What I think would be even a better idea - Bailey: I want to know how much that building is worth. Vanderhoef: Is to get a list of City needs over the next 10-20 years for space and that would include recreation, it might include police, it might include a lot of different things. And then also do a visioning with the Parks and Recreation Commission on this. You know, we have some ideas- Champion: Before we tear it down we should see if it could be moved. Vanderhoef: No, because it's- Correia: But I mean, I think Connie, would people - Atkins: It'd fall apart. It's got asbestos in it, I'm sorry. Correia: Asbestos? Bailey: He hates that building. Correia: Oh, it has asbestos, forget it. Couldn't save Coronet, it had asbestos, we can't save the bus depot. Atkins: This one has asbestos. Vanderhoef: Well and that site probably - Bailey: Let's put up a Sonic Burger. (laughter) This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 37 O'Donnell: Now you're talking. Wilburn: Ok. With all due respect, I, I am not going to look like there are comments about the time that we get out of here tonight. I've tried twice now to get us to move on, so. Vanderhoef: And we need - Correia: I would like the lot appraised. I would like, I mean I think while we're looking at what the City might do with it I would like to know what the fair market value is on that. Vanderhoef: I don't care because it belongs in that block as long as we own the Wilson building. Bailey: Build taller buildings. Elliott: The problem with tearing it down now is you say there's asbestos in there. Atkins: Yes. Elliott: If, because my thinking is either let it go for homeless shelter or sell it to somebody in the public for a commercial business. And if you do the latter, let them bear the cost of tearing it down and taking out the asbestos. Atkins: It's not a huge cost to tear it down. It's about $15,000.00. Elliott: $15,000.00. Atkins: But I would just caution you about the sale of the property. Quite frankly, I'd leave the building sit there before 1'd tell you to sell it. I think at some time the rec center is gonna want to expand. Vanderhoef: I do too. Atkins: We talked at one time about the Comm. Center, we've got another site for that. We do need police storage space. Correia: But if it, I mean, I think if it's - Bailey: How big do we need it to be? Correia: But if it's going to be, it's a very visible corner. Bailey: Right. Correia: So that's why if1'm willing to let it sit and vision about it, and see if the City wants to, if we want to move in that direction, if we don't have such an unsightly. I apologize, I know you like this building, but it just does not - it's a very visible corner a block from downtown, and if we could do something to tear it down and do something with bike parking and tents for a farmers' market. Bailey: Empty space in downtown generally looks junky because it just, nobody, I mean- This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 38 Vanderhoef: It can't look junkier than what it looks right now. Bailey: Oh it can. Vanderhoef: I mean even though we pick it up, broken up concrete - Correia: Actually even if we added a small parking lot. Bailey: The decision's been made. Correia: Make it a taxi stand. Elliott: Are we going to send our recommendations to the City Manager? Is that what the Mayor has suggested? Wilburn: I was suggesting that, yes. Elliott: I have great respect for our Mayor and will do that. Wilburn: Oh yeah. Ok. Thank you. Atkins: Now that means we're not tearing it down, we're gonna put together some ideas. O'Donnell: We are tearing it down. Vanderhoef: Weare tearing it down. Bailey: You had four to tear it down. You wanted to tear it down for two year. Tear it down. Champion: Wait. Who are the four votes? Atkins: I didn't read that. I'm sorry. Dilkes: Raise your hands. Wilburn: Correia, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, and Wilburn. Champion: The Historic Preservation people are not gonna like you. Correia: Yes. Bailey: I don't even like them now. O'Donnell: Then we've done something right. Urban Environmental Accords Wilburn: Urban Environmental Accords. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 Atkins: Correia: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Correia: Bailey: Wilburn: Champion: Correia: City Council Work Session Page 39 You recall that group of students I think appeared two meetings ago from the Roosevelt Institute made a general presentation, had a petition on some information. You said to put them on for, put it on, the item, for a work session discussion and here it is. I'm not sure what to do with it. Is this the Cool Cities folks? Mmm hmm. Isn't it? Well, there were several gyrations of Cool Cities folks locally. What I was, the main group that staff and I had spoken with prior to the students coming to this meeting, had talked about putting together some type of task force. I had recommended they do it on their own. They generated a list recently of different sectors of the community that could be represented on such as task force to look at policy recommendations for the City. I've looked at that list. They have come back saying that they think it should be something more along the lines like the Neighborhood Task Force, which is actually a Council appointed one, so I was going to get back to them and say, you know, that you should tease out the idea a little bit more about what it would accomplish. It would be a short term, like the Neighborhood Task Force one was, with the understanding that it would be Council making the appointments. I said that I had to consult with the City Attorney about whether or not it would, you know, the open meetings, that type of thing, which I did. And so I was gonna make that recommendation that they come up with some suggested goals, objectives. And then I said that I would bring it up at a work session with the Council to consider. But that's, again, that's, I think part of the Environmental Accords was joining another group and the statement I made when I'd signed the environmental Cool Cities thing was that if we could be doing things like some of the things with the Recycling Center, those types ofthings, as opposed to focusing on joining this environmental group or that environmental group. This was another group that they were wanting us to join, so. Could that task force take these Urban Environmental Accords and develop a plan for Council to consider to become a one-star, two-stars, three-stars city? I think that could very well be - Yeah, that's- That would be my interest in putting them together and giving them - it's a focused charge instead of, you know, being greener. To look at this, see what we're doing, and see how far they think we could get. It's a seven year time frame. I also told them that if it were something more formal like the Neighborhood Task Force that there would be some costs associated with that and I'm not sure where the Council, how the Council felt about that. The cost would be a staff person? Would this be - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Wilburn: Correia: Wilburn: Correia: Bailey: Wilburn: Correia: Bailey: Elliott: Correia: Vanderhoef: Bailey: Wilburn: Vanderhoef: Wilburn: Vanderhoef: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 40 Well, staff time and minutes, those type of things. I know there is a staff member who is interested in doing that. Our recycling coordinator is. I was gonna say, this would be within public works, the Department of Public - with the staff. It could, it could. But that's a staff member that would be interested. With the staff, right. That's what makes sense. Well part of what this task force could do too is shine more of a magnifying glass in some of the, I mean, as you pointed out, shine a magnifying glass on some of the initiatives that we have within the City. And it could be also have an educational function. Educational, that's right. Absolutely. As well as looking for ways to move us forward. I'd like for us to touch base with Mark Kresowik, who is going around the State working on these kinds of things and advising and promoting and enlisting. Ijust, and he's a person who knows Iowa City better than probably anyone else who is promoting this and I'd like for him to come and talk to us or at least contact him, ask him to send some recommendations in writing. Well, he was here the night they came to support - Yes, he was. Yeah, the Roosevelt Institute, and he talked about these specifically, sort of endorsed these Environmental Accords. Right. And I'll just give you a heads up. There is going to be another meeting coming up in a couple of weeks that Ijust heard about today, and you maybe have a letter already from Frank County on this face to face environmental visioning kind of thing that they are going to do in Des Moines at Drake University. Yeah. It's on a weekend - I'll be in Des Moines actually that weekend, because I'll be coaching at the State softball tournament, so. It's Friday and Saturday and I'm there Wednesday and Thursday anyway so I'm going to stay over on Friday and take that in and see what's available. But he's pretty excited about it, and if we had anybody appointed or someone from staff to go to that meeting, I think it would be worthwhile. Ok. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 41 Vanderhoef: They're bringing in a number of different people, everything from the Vedic City kind of totally self-contained - Wilburn: I'll pass that on to Steve and he can see if there's a staff member that would be interested. And I think, and again, I'm not at a point where I'm still, I need to get back to those folks, not at a point for the Council to make a decision whether or not, obviously, about whether or not a task force would be the way to go, but another selling point may be that if we had such a task force it might give a focus for all of the different people and sectors to put their ideas as opposed to Mark Kresowik and Carbury and Holland and the different groups coming to each of us or - Vanderhoef: They may be better speakers to come to work with the task force even. Wilburn: Ok. So we're gonna temporarily table that and I'll - Bailey: So you'll come back- Wilburn: Yeah, I'll be talking to them within the week and I don't know how long it'll be before they can generate that. Bailey: But they generally understand open meetings, the issue, Council appoints - Wilburn: They just felt that it may have more, they feel it would have more visibility if it were more formal. Bailey: Such faith in a Council task force. Sales Tax Wilburn: Well, there you go. Ok. Sales tax. Elliott: I don't think there's any need to discuss it. It's dead in the water. We've got as much chance of passing a local options sales tax as I do of having the NFL draft me. Correia: Wow. O'Donnell: They're looking for kickers, Bob. (laughter) Bailey: If he would practice a little bit more. O'Donnell: This sales tax, you know, 1- Vanderhoef: And eat his green vegetables. O'Donnell: I agree Bob, it would be very, very difficult to pass. However, we do need a fourth fire station, and if this money were to be directed solely to public safety, I believe it may have an opportunity. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 42 Elliott: Following on the heels of the school passing it, it just - there's no way, and it could be detrimental to the future it we try it now right on top of the school. Correia: You have a good point. Champion: I think if you used it for public safety and reducing property taxes, which are really- Vanderhoef: The property tax thing. Champion: But I don't think we stand a chance without the support of the rest ofthe areas. Because isn't it voted on county-wide or how does that work? Atkins: It's a county tax, right, that's correct. Champion: So maybe we need to ask Steve to talk to Coralville and - Wilburn: Well there are members of the Coralville Council who are interested and I suspect there might be on some other Councils, but beyond government, I think in this particular arena there would need to be some other entities in the community who would be willing to champion it just like they did - not Connie Champion - but to, you know, take up the cause like they did with the school, and I don't know. Champion: And the Library Referendum. Wilburn: I don't know if some of those, the Chamber or other groups, would be willing. But even just, even just that the article and editorial from the newspaper, at least a few folks came and spoke to me about it. But it was just all the way across the board some people would support it for those police and fire station. I had someone who said, this was at the Arts Festival Friday night who said oh, this is great, this is a great use of my tax money. If you use it for stuff like this you can increase my tax, but don't do a sales tax. And I had someone who I didn't anticipate would be supportive of a local options sales tax because of the regressive/progressive argument, said that you know, he didn't have, after the State legislature removed utilities from something that was eligible for State tax years ago, he didn't feel that, that kind of took away his objection to it because of some of the limitations. So it's just been across the board. But I think clearly you need to have some other groups, and we'd have to identify who those folks might be to pull it off. And I think the other piece, and I'll be quiet and let everyone else talk, for you know, the next Council and Councils whoever they might be, you know the last few years we've held at least the City's portion of property tax flat and even bought down more with reserves. I don't think in order to accomplish getting the fourth fire station or getting police officers up to where those numbers should be, that that can continue over the next few years. O'Donnell: We've had, although we were able to not raise taxes, property evaluations went up, so that was a wash also. Elliott: Yep. Bailey: Well and then also other entities raised them as well. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 43 O'Donnell: Well they did and there's people in this community right now and I had several calls when we were deliberating increasing the tax, property tax, and they're stretched pretty thin and this could make a difference with those on a fixed income whether or not they can stay in their home they've been in for a great number of years. But like I said, direct this, and I do agree with property tax relief and a new, public safety and property tax an equitable split with all entities in our County. We're dealing on a very old census. Elliott: I just think it would be politically wise to let it, to just cool our heels for a couple of years. Wilburn: You know, I was inaccurate. I did have something else I wanted to point out too. It's just an observation. You know, you hear people talk about how taxes are too high here and no one else in the State, but I don't believe we have the highest property tax rate in the State and I think the three or four cities more populous - excuse me - Bailey: God bless you. Wilburn: Thank you. Their tax rate is higher. Champion: How could it be? We're the maximum. Wilburn: And they have sales tax and they've got gambling, and we're delivering equivalent services, and it's just like it's amazing that we've been able to do what we've been able to do. Champion: Well we should have had that gambling boat on balloons. Elliott: Well clearly the City is either going to have to cut its spending or find another source of revenue. I mean clearly. Champion: That's been what I've been saying all along Bob. We've got to keep it out. Elliott: But Ijust don't - I think that to raise the specter of sales tax right now is gonna be counterproductive. Bailey: Well, only counterproductive if - Correia: The question - Champion: I don't know. It seemed kind of to follow a positive thing. Bailey: Well I think it needs, I don't think it needs to come top down. I think we need to hear it from other people. They need to be approaching us, I mean more than just a few people at Arts Fest, that we really want to see this, this is how we want to pay for it. Vanderhoef: Was I wrong? But I thought I heard some of the other cities at the last joint meeting talk about if Iowa City was interested they were too. This is from elected officials, not from the citizens. So I don't think it would hurt for us to send out a letter of inquiry to cities in Johnson County and just ask if they are interested in talking about this. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 44 O'Donnell: I would rather talk about it at a joint meeting. We have those set up and we have representatives. Bailey: They're going to do a feasibility study to pass it. O'Donnell: No, that would be a feasibility study, I believe. Bailey: No, elected officials don't pass these things, people pass these things. O'Donnell: Well, but you can get an opinion. They're certainly not going to pass if the elected officials aren't on board. Champion: But other, some cities aren't at that joint meeting. Vanderhoef: That's what I'm - I agree, Connie. The joint meeting takes care of the bigger ones. Champion: The big cities, Iowa City Community School District is the towns that come to that meeting, and there are other towns, so I don't think it would hurt to send a letter of inquiry to see if we get any response. Correia: I have a - oh - Wilburn: I'd be willing to ask some of the Council members or mayors of some of the other towns rather than - Champion: Great. Good for you. Wilburn: You know, I mean I can certainly do a letter, but it- Elliott: I'd rather it be informal. Correia: And I have a - Wilburn: Well, I'm coming along, and excuse me for a second Amy, along of the line of what Bob was saying about tucking it away for awhile. Go ahead. Correia: I just have a question. We talk about offering, using the proceeds from a sales tax to offer property tax relief, and that certainly, I certainly understand that. I understand the constraints that certainly folks that are on fixed incomes have with property taxes. But property taxes then eventually have the ability to come back up, because if we continue to grow, we, you know, we, this Council, could say we're gonna have property tax relief when we get the sales tax. But in five years those property taxes and a current or future Council could go back up to the allowed limit, and then you have people complaining about their property taxes and you also have people paying this sales tax as well. O'Donnell: Well I hope that we've done, I hope we've done our part in creating tax growth. Vanderhoef: . One of the place - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 45 Correia: Well I'm just saying that I think, so, those are some things that you can say yes this first year we're going to do this, but you can't promise that. Champion: If this is what you say you're going to use it for- Correia: For all time? V anderhoef: Yeah, but let me give you a different scenario here, please, because when we say buy down property tax, we're not talking about the $8.10, which is the limit. (cut off - end of tape) Vanderhoef: . . . of the $8.10. They didn't go out to bonding. The first years, for instance, that we did public art, it was not bonded. It came out of the general fund. Everything that is legally possible to move into bonding has been moved into bonding. So that's where our property tax goes up in that bonding. So if we want to keep property tax lower, you have to just keep decreasing the amount of bonding. Champion: Plus it saves money over the long run. Vanderhoef: And it saves money over the long run. So property tax relief in this case depends annually on the amount of bonding that we choose to do, not on other. Elliott: Well, it's, it's all relative. Because we're talking about a property caused by our own success. As Iowa City has become more successful, people are looking at Iowa City as a great place to live and do business. They're willing to pay more money, the value of our property, the assessed value of our properties go up, the taxes go up. And there are a lot of cities in Iowa who would love to have our problems, but our property taxes are gonna keep going up. And we can, if we wanted to lower them we can do it, but it's gonna be lowered for a temporary period oftime. As long as we're successful the taxes are gonna be high. It costs less to live in Iowa City than New York or Baltimore or San Francisco or something, but costs a lot more than to live in Burlington or Mount Pleasant. O'Donnell: Am I hearing we're gonna send a letter to the different people? Champion: Well, Ross is going to - Elliott: Ross is gonna talk informally. O'Donnell: Ok. Let's, let's- Elliott: Yeah. Good. Bailey: So what's the next? But, and then what? Champion: Then we'll discuss it again. Bailey: So that's the decision. That we'll continue to talk about this. O'Donnell: That's what I heard. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council rneeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 46 Bailey: I mean did you want a decision point tonight? Wilburn: Ah, there were four who wanted to at least talk about the subject. Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. So let's - Wilburn: I guess, when I was one of the four who said that, I was, just an opportunity to hear some ofthe thoughts about it, because we don't necessarily get a chance to do that. Elliott: And you heard some thoughts. Karr: We do have a joint meeting coming up in July. Champion: Yeah. 7 AM, isn't it? Bailey: 7:30. O'Donnell: We have a what? Bailey: At the Fair. Karr: Joint meeting. O'Donnell: Not 7 in the morning. Bailey: 7:30. Correia: 7:30. At the Fair. Wilburn: I'll be on Ragbrai. Bailey: Yeah, I know. Elliott: I'll be in bed. (all talk - can't hear) Champion: Maybe we don't have a joint meeting! Bailey: Isn't that what they do? Correia: Call a cab. O'Donnell: Ridiculous. Wilburn: I'll make the effort to, within the next week and a half, to have some conversations with the mayors of the other cities in the County and get back to Council. Bailey: What I want to know is what would be the trigger for us to move forward on this. Do we know what that would look like? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 Champion: Bailey: O'Donnell: (laughter) Bailey: O'Donnell: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Atkins: Bailey: A2enda Items Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 47 No. Ok Because I'm not really interested in moving forward. I'd be just as interested in having a gambling boat as I would putting a local options sales tax. Great. Then we need an agency to help gamblers that are addicted. Well you know exactly how interested I am in both of those, so. You said it. Ok. 7:30. 4H's - is that like farming? That's farming stuff. Stay up for it. Agenda items. 4f(11)Correspondence: Dominic Liberatore: Complete streets policy Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Elliott: Bailey: Wilburn: Dilkes: Item 4f(11) - it's the Thunderhead Alliance letter to us regarding our Complete Streets Policy. Oh yes. I was wondering if we could just take care of this? Me too. Summarize that for me, would you? We need a senior level approval of exceptions. I thought we, the understanding was Council would, could - I mean, we don't necessarily. What they're talking about we have. It's not called that. But, go ahead Eleanor. Well, I talked to John Yapp a little bit today and he said that, his take on the letter and mine was too was that they don't, this particular organization doesn't want any, any, 20% or 25% or whatever where you start, you know, where it kicks in or doesn't kick in. The Council can always choose to do it on a project even though it's expensive. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 48 Wilburn: That's, that's what we said the last time you know, so I don't- Dilkes: So John said he would write, respond to the letter. Bailey: My objective here is - Correia: Well I guess - Wilburn: Go ahead Regenia and then- Bailey: My objective here is to get the Thunderhead Alliance to recognize this policy. I mean, there's, there are grant opportunities with Thunderhead Alliance and other things. I think that if it's a simple enough approach - I mean, if it's contradictory to what we want in our policy, absolutely not. But if it's generally in line with what we want in our policy, it would be great if this organization would recognize that. This is a nationally known organization. And I think that we would want that stamp of approval. Correia: So it sounds like our policy really does what they're saying, it's just not written or presented in a way that they recognize. Elliott: We spent quite a bit of time talking about it, and as I recall what we set was a guideline beyond which or below which the Council can go if it so desires. Champion: Exactly. Elliott: But the guideline is there. Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. Elliott: And it seemed to me a very reasonable approach to it at the time. Bailey: Then we won't get recognition from this group. As it's written. Wilburn: Well, John is gonna- Dilkes: Yeah, you'll have to talk to, you'll have to have John in to talk to you about it. From his perspective he wasn't concerned about the lack of recognition from that group, but I don't know all that that involves and what they do, so you'll have to talk to him about it. Wilburn: Can we have John in? Atkins: John - yeah, sure. Bailey: Well and can you follow up with this person and make sure that - Wilburn: I think Eleanor said that - that's what is- Bailey: Oh. Ok. Atkins: Yeah, make sure we understand their point. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 49 Bailey: Right. And then what the wording would take. If it's a simple enough change I think that's something we should do. Champion: Ijust want to- Vanderhoef: Ah,I- Champion: Go on Dee. 4f(13) Correspondence Craig Gustaveson: Taxi Stands in Downtown Iowa City Vanderhoef: Ok. The taxi stands downtown. Champion: That's what I was going to bring up. Bailey: Oh good. Vanderhoef: I still think we're making them taxi stands far too early in the evening, and I think that might alleviate some of the businesses complaints. Champion: The other thing that somebody pointed out to me, and it's really a valid complaint, is does the City provide free parking for any other business? Bailey: Right. Champion: No. I mean, I buy parking permits. People who shop in my store put money into parking meters. Bailey: Likewise. Champion: Remember one time we actually bought meters? Atkins: Yes. Champion: Right. So maybe they can go back to doing that. Bailey: But also, the taxicabs don't pay for these stands either. These are not paid for. Champion: No, that's what I mean. O'Donnell: That's exactly her point. Bailey: Right. But no, we're also providing free parking for these customers if they can use that loading zone as well. Champion: If somebody's got a business. Bailey: If somebody - no, somebody's going to get free parking. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 50 Champion: Right, but it's not the business. Vanderhoef: Well everybody gets free parking at night. They just don't get dedicated free parking. Correia: But Connie - Wilburn: I think the other- Correia: Businesses don't pay - Bailey: Well not everybody; if you park in a ramp you don't get- Correia: Hold on - can Ijust - don't pay for their commercial loading. So part of the idea with the taxi stands was to make sure that people knew there were taxis so they weren't going to be driving, potentially not driving downtown so that we're not needing as much parking. What I'm wondering is if- Wilburn: But then you knew where to go, where to catch a cab. Correia: You knew where to go to catch a cab. Right. But I'm wondering if we have too many of them, too many taxi stands. Bailey: We agreed to evaluate this, but we didn't put a deadline on this. We agreed to collect some information. We didn't set a deadline for when we would review that. That's what I think we need to do. Do we have too many? Are they really using them? Are they still parking in the middle of the street? What time do they use them? And then - Elliott: I think the person who knows more than anyone else has something to say. Champion: Who? Wilburn: I think he's talking about Marian. Karr: I was just going to clarify earlier that the way the ordinance reads right now in the code does allow for a taxi company to make the request of a space. What we had is one company request a space and they would pay for that space. In response to the one request from one company we responded with this suggestion and we're giving it a try for all companies. This does not give every cab company or car a space. Not at all. There are more cars and more companies than we have spaces even if they were used after 5 o'clock. Bailey: How many companies are we up to? O'Donnell: We have 18 I think. Karr: We have 14 and 63 cabs. Bailey: You still can't find one when it rains. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Wilburn: Karr: Wilburn: Bailey: O'Donnell: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Karr: O'Donnell: Correia: Vanderhoef: Correia: Vanderhoef: City Council Work Session Page 51 And I've seen, and everyone's either spin or observation and when you look is gonna differ. Correct. But over the past, well since our last meeting, I've continued to observe on Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings between 9:00 and lAM, and despite the correspondence that says no one uses them, I've seen 5 or 6 companies. I've seen Black & Gold, I've seen the Red Star, I've seen Marco's, I've seen Old Capitol, and I've seen Yellow Cab use those spots. I've seen them using them, and I've been down - Are they out of the middle of the street then too? No. Ah, the times I've seen I have not seen them in the middle of the street. I've seen them. But I see other cabs pulling into just empty spots, period. Right. But I have seen those five - there was another one, I don't remember what it was called- the black and white one. Is it called Black & White? Ok. There's six companies that I have seen on a regular basis. They don't go for the mysterious names. Using those spots between 9:00 and lAM, and that's just my observation. I did, when the president of the Downtown Association came and I had suggested that we use over the course of the summer to collect anecdotal information. I, Jeff Davidson, I bumped into him downtown one night, and he said he saw some companies using them, so I'm not, from my point of view I'm not necessarily concerned about the cab companies themselves, but it's just so the people know where they can catch a cab. The Downtown Association just hates these things. We had a letter in the packet again where they'd like this rescinded immediately. You have another late handout tonight on it too. I have seen the cabs parked in the center of the street. Ijust, I don't think we've accomplished anything with this. I really don't. So do most downtown businesses stay open untiI6:00? Because it's mostly- Well, some are open until 8:00. Some are open until 8:00? Yes. That was why when it first came to us I thought 5 o'clock was too early to start that. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council rneeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 52 Elliott: 9:00 or 10:00 would be realistic. Bailey: Mark, Mark says in his letter 10:00 would be. Correia: But he's not open until 10:00. Elliott: No. Bailey: I think he, I mean, it depends. If it's an Art Walk night I mean he can be around. He has private showings. Correia: Look at Tower Place. Vanderhoef: I would consider changing it to either 9:00 or 10:00 at this point in time right now. Correia: One of the things - Wilburn: Does the Council wish to continue a period of observation and set a month to make a decision whether we want to continue or make modifications? Or what's the pleasure of the Council? Correia: So who is observing? I mean I'm not observing. Bailey: Besides you observing - Correia: Yeah, and Mike observing. Bailey: I trust your observations, nothing, who else is looking? I mean, do we have ticket data? Correia: Does, do the taxicabs, do they keep like logs of where they pick people up? Karr: No. O'Donnell: Downtown. Correia: No, so we can't really- Karr: The taxi companies have expressed - again, bear in mind that one company was willing to pay for one space. What happened is a number of spaces opened up free for them. Some of them are thrilled with it. Now, again, they're not paying for anything so they're thrilled with it. When you ask them, they didn't ask but they'll take it. I think they're, from what I've heard from a number of them, they would prefer that we would enforce the no parking down the middle of the street so these spaces are used better and people would know and could safely do them rather than darting out in traffic. That's one thing I hear a lot from them, is that people are still, knowing that they're located down the middle of the street, and if we're going to have free, these free parking or taxi stands, that they be utilized. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 53 Correia: And what if we also have signs directing - we have signs directing drivers to parking, but there aren't really other, beside there's a small taxi stand telling somebody who wants to park there they shouldn't park there. But having taxi stand signs for pedestrians. Bailey: Let's set a date and make a decision. Elliott: Yes. I'm in favor. Karr: I think Ijust want to remind you too that it is an ordinance, we can do whatever you'd like, but it would be helpful before the school starts to whether you give it a month or two or whatever you decide, to have something in place and stick with it by Fall. Elliott: How about August. Wilburn: August. Vanderhoef: 151 of August. Bailey: Well wait, 1].0, look at our schedule - we only have one meeting in August. Champion: I know there's been complaints from Austin Burke and Ginsburg's. My complaint - the complaints that I've gotten about the taxi stands is not from customers or business owners. It's business owners who immediately park there at 5 o'clock. And those are the people who've complained to me. You've taken my parking space away. So you know, when you - Elliott: That is such. Uhhh. A counterproductive business maneuver. I can't believe people do it. Bailey: There's nothing honest about parking downtown. Champion: I know, but those are the complaints that I've gotten. 3 of them. I'm not going to name them. O'Donnell: Maybe the answer is selling the spot to the cab companies. That way you're sure. Bailey: And selling a spot to anybody. If Ginsburg wants a dedicated spot in front of his place, sets a price - Champion: That's what he has that loading zone for. O'Donnell: I don't want to do that. I mean, but if we really do want a taxi stand, maybe ifit costs them they'll use it. Champion: There is some inequity to parking downtown. For instance, the loading zones in front of Ginsburg's and Hands, anybody can park in for 10 minutes or 15 or whatever it is. And that's where their customers park and if they get a ticket they pay the ticket for them. Now the loading zones by my store, my end of town or whatever you want to call it, nobody can park there but commercial vehicles, who never park there. So, there is real inequity. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 54 Correia: Yeah. Elliott: I got tickets for parking like when I used to load and unload things into the College of Business, I got a ticket because they said I had to have special signs. Champion: You have to have a plastic sign. It can't be just a sign. It has to be a magnetic sign on the side of your car. I mean I got one to recycle, but I can't park there. Elliott: It's cheaper to pay the ticket than to buy a plastic sign. Wilburn: The suggestion was August. Elliott: I still liked it August. O'Donnell: Put it August, see what they say. Vanderhoef: August meeting. Bailey: Ok. And that's an August 20th meeting, and if we're going to change an ordinance it's not gonna give us enough time. Karr: It'll be the end of September before. Do you want to leave it like this until August or do you want to go later in the evening until August and see how that works? I don't- Champion: I don't think we should change it midstream. I think you should leave it the way it is or get rid of it. I mean that, I think you're going to confuse everybody even more. Elliott: I forgot - Correia: How much are we paying on signs? Get a new sign - 10:00. Elliott: We can get rid of this in two meetings, correct? Karr: Yes sir. Elliott: So we'd have to - Bailey: I think we should have a report on June 18th at our work session and have an ordinance drafted if we want to change it on the 19th. Atkins: What are we supposed to report? Karr: No, why don't - on June 18th we'd report but we'd have an ordinance on your July meeting. Get it done twice in July then. Bailey: Yep. Karr: Right. Not on the 19th. Champion: Isn't the night on Thursday? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Atkins: Karr: Bailey: Atkins: Wilburn: Atkins: Karr: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Champion: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Elliott: Correia: Wilburn: Correia: Champion: Bailey: Wilburn: 9. City Council Work Session Page 55 No. Right. That'll work. The Mayor will - it seems like he's already downtown. He's a swell guy. I got nothing else to do anyways. Because the 18th is off into, we're going to - So we're going to schedule for June 18th to give some figures I think is what we're talking about, and some direction so we can put the ordinance on in July. So- Some way to measure. Some information from Parking. I mean, they're enforcing that right? No they're not. Police. We'll get you something. Yeah. Good. Maybe get the cable people down there with their cameras. We can get some photo documentation. I've taken two pictures so- Show, Ross - can we see them. Can we talk a little bit - Put them in a PowerPoint and we'll- I'll do it in the meeting in July, June, whatever. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 10 OF THE CITY CODE, ENTITLED "USE OF PUBLIC WAYS AND PROPERTY ,If CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED, COMMERCIAL USE OF SIDEWALKS," SECTION 3, ENTITLED "USE FOR SIDEWALK CAFES," TO PROVIDE AN EXCEPTION TO THE EIGHT (8) FOOT This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Wark Session Page 56 UNOBSTRUCTED WALKWAY REQUIREMENT IN THE CB2 AND CB5 ZONES. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Champion: Can we talk a little bit about item #9. The sidewalk cafes. I want us to consider. You know, the way we - I love the sidewalk cafes, and I think we're so stringent with them and it's very expensive the way we do it. I would like to think that if you have room - for instance, I was thinking about Linn Street. If you, you don't have big sidewalks there, so if you even had 3 or 4 tables along there they would have to put an iron fence around it, you wouldn't be able to get 3 tables in there, because you couldn't walk around them to serve people. Well, I was thinking that if you - I have two thoughts. If you don't serve liquor on your sidewalk cafe you do not need a fence. Bailey: So coffee shops can have. Champion: Coffee shops could line up tables. For instance, I'm not saying they can have 4 or 5 tables in a row, but they could line up tables along the fayade of their building. They could even have two rows, because I think that might be, but they line up tables along the fayade of their building if they don't serve alcohol out there without a fence. That would allow people like, well, help me out somebody. Bailey: That's what I'm - who would it be? Atkins: House of Aromas? Bailey: House of Aromas, on Clinton Street. Champion: Well I don't know. If somebody made the decision that they wanted to serve alcohol out there or not. Bailey: Java House has a patio. Elliott: The people that serve, well anything - there are plenty of places that serve sandwiches, pop. Champion: Right! Exactly. Atkins: The Bread Garden. Vanderhoef: Then does - Elliott: I like that, and making it more easy but no booze on the sidewalk. Champion: But no booze. I mean if you're going to serve alcohol on your sidewalk cafe you have to have a fence. O'Donnell: Well you also have to have a certain width of sidewalk too - Champion: And that would also eliminate a lot of that problem. Of course you have to have sidewalk width. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 Karr: Champion: Karr: Bailey: Champion: Karr: Dilkes: Karr: Elliott: Karr: Bailey: Karr: Champion: Elliott: Bailey: Champion: Elliott: Wilburn: Champion: Bailey: (laughter) Elliott: Bailey: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 57 So, I'm sorry, you're - how does this affect #9? Is this something different from? Oh, I want to get sidewalk cafes. That's- Oh it's just a - it doesn't affect 9. Ok. That was her only wedge, really. I was hedging the - Ok. No, no, no - Ijust- That's fine, but you're ok with what's here? You're ok with 9. Now you're onto something else. Connie saw the water and jumped in. Got it. Saw a little bit of water. I lost the water. Anyway, something we can all think about. Is anyone else interested in doing something further than me? Yeah, I'd like - Eating outside is always a good thing. It is, and it doesn't have to be all fenced in. I think there are times in Iowa City, well, you know how I feel about a lot of things, but there are times when we don't do something, we have to go all the way and make the Taj Mahal or don't do it, instead oflet's do a little of it. I think it's a nice spirit to keep the skateboards and bikers from going through the area. (can't hear) I think that makes your sandwich so much more exciting. Right. You always have to be so (can't hear) Any other agenda items? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 58 Elliott: I have a question about 12. Steve? Dilkes: Ijust- Wilburn: Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Dilkes: Ijust wanted - as long as it's an establishment that doesn't have a liquor license there's no requirement that you have the fencing, except by our ordinance. We could change that. Champion: I'm just suggesting that if you don't serve a1cohol- Dilkes: No, that won't work, because the State requires that your premise, your licensed premises, which has to include the outdoor area has to be delineated. Karr: One license. Elliott: Yeah, you don't want people to sit down and order and find out oh, I can't have a beer with this. Dilkes: No. It would have to be, it could only apply to places - Elliott: Without a liquor license. Dilkes: Without a liquor license. Champion: Ok. That would be fine, that'll be fine. Elliott: 9. Or 12 Steve. ITEM 12. AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE 7, ENTITLED FIRE PREVENTION AND PROTECTION, AND TITLE 17, ENTITLED BUILDING AND HOUSING TO ESTABLISH FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS FOR NEW AND EXISTING GROUP A-2 AND B OCCUPANCIES. Atkins: I'm listening. Yes? Elliott: It says recommended to propose amendments to the international- how can we recommend amendments to an international code? Vanderhoef: We do it all the time. Atkins: We do it all the time. Elliott: How do we, how can we change an international code? Atkins: Go ahead. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Wark Session Page 59 Dilkes: We adopt, we're not bound by the international code unless we adopt that code, and we adopt that code and - Elliott: But we can't change that code. Dilkes: Yes, Bob. That's what we do all the time. Elliott: This says we're going to amend the code. Vanderhoef: That's exactly what we're doing. Correia: To our amendment. Bailey: Adopt our - Elliott: No, no, no - we cannot change. If this is an international code how can Iowa City amend an international code? We can amend our adoption of it, the way we - we cannot amend the international code. Bailey: Semantics. Atkins: Is it like an addendum to it? An amendment. Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. Elliott: To say that we're amending an international code is just clearly inaccurate. Vanderhoef: What we're doing is we're taking everything that's written over the last- Dilkes: Well, we've done it a million times over the last thirty years. Atkins: That many? Elliott: But the - does the international code change? It's the way we adopt- Dilkes: It does for us. Atkins: It does. Elliott: But we are not changing the international code. Weare changing the way that we adopt it. Bailey: Semantics. Dilkes: We are amending the international code for our use. Elliott: Yes! But this says we are amending the international. Weare amending the way we use the international, we are not amending the international code. That would be like us amending, we're saying we're going to amend the Constitution. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 60 Vanderhoef: How about saying we are adopting the international code with our amendments. Elliott: Yeah. All I'm saying is - Dilkes: Local amendments. Elliott: I see this from time to time and it just irritates me - Vanderhoef: Obviously. Elliott: Because we cannot amend and international code. Bailey: So if we change this will you be less irritated? Elliott: No! I'll find something else! (laughter) Wilburn: Correia: Bailey: Wilburn: Atkins: Bailey: Correia: Atkins: Bailey: Atkins: Dilkes: Atkins: Vanderhoef: Atkins: Vanderhoef: Correia: Are there other agenda items? I have, well I have something on that same agenda item. #10. Ok. Can I just, Amy before you speak- Which item? 12. I'd just remind you the Council had sort of adopted an informal policy that you were going to talk about these things only at the Tuesday night meetings. Remember? Yes. Yeah, and 1- The A2 things. The A2 things - just as a heads up. Right. I don't mind answering your questions. I've got some new information for it too. Ok, why don't 1- This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 61 Wilburn: Wait until then- Atkins: Sorry, Amy- Correia: No, that's fine. Bailey: Actually, I think we should hold to that, because nobody's here, not even press. Champion: Good, I can talk about it. Bailey: I have a question about 10. Elliott: What was it though, Steve - see, I was still winding down. Correia: I do have just one, one thing though that I don't have to. In all the previous correspondence about this it always said A2, and then in this last week's correspondence it says A2 and B occupancies, and so if they could be prepared to explain where that - Atkins: Ok. What that means. Bailey: Hyper-prepared would probably be a good idea. Correia: I went back to see was it I just missed something? But in the previous? Vanderhoef: It's the size. Correia: Well that's fine but- Dilkes: And you do have to go back to the memo that was in last along with that- Atkins: Yeah. Correia: I have that one, but I mean, I went even to the first one just to see if I missed something, and the very first memo it only talked about A2. It didn't say anything about a B occupancy. Vanderhoef: We added B later because the Bs that we added were the upstairs and the below grade. Otherwise it doesn't apply. So when you're talking about B- Correia: No, they, the list that we had from the very first memo- Vanderhoef: Yeah, but the updated one - Correia: Had all of those same establishments listed as an A2, so that was just my question. Atkins: I'll have staff prepared to answer that for you. Correia: Ok. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 62 ITEM 10. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 9, ENTITLED "MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC" TO DEFINE THE MEANING OF VARIOUS PEDESTRIAN CROSSING SIGNALS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Wilburn: Item 10. You had a question Regenia? Bailey: We're talking about pedestrian crossing signals that are defined as - just where do the numbers come in? Atkins: Who? Bailey: The numbers. We have numbers as well. O'Donnell: Are you talking countdown? Vanderhoef: Oh, in defining then the countdown? Elliott: Oh countdown. Dilkes: Well, we don't have to define- Bailey: Everything? Dilkes: The reason we're defining the signals is we've had difficulty prosecuting in Magistrate's Court because it's not, according to the Magistrate, it's not clear what those hands and walking people mean. Bailey: Oh. So this is for prosecution of jaywalking? Dilkes: Yes. O'Donnell: Absolutely. Champion: They can't - you don't know what they mean? They don't know what they mean? Bailey: But, if your law isn't clearly written then- Dilkes: We don't have a definition ofthose things in our code. Bailey: So we're amending this to better enable us to prosecute jaywalkers? Champion: (can't hear) I do all the time. Wilburn: Sure. And - Bailey: Is that true? Atkins: Yeah. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 63 Dilkes: The police have cited people particularly at the corner ofIowa and Clinton. It can be, as I understand it, a real problem for the masses of people who cross against the lights. Vanderhoef: My husband says don't make eye contact and then you can keep going. Elliott: This clarifies it for that purpose. Bailey: Court prosecution. O'Donnell: It's a good idea. Wilburn: Learn something new every day. Any other agenda items? Champion: No. Council Time Wilburn: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Champion: Bailey: Atkins: Bailey: Atkins: Wilburn: Atkins: Bailey: Council Time? I have an item. In last week's info. packet there was a department memo from the Police Department about a grant and it talks about tasers, which we don't currently use. Correct. And I mentioned to Sam that I would like, I'd be interested in hearing why we're going to use them. I have some concerns and I would like him to come talk about the use of tasers with Council, because I anticipate if we get this funding and purchase these that we'll have some community questions. Sam- Are there other people interested? He indicated that he would be more than happy to come in and talk. Yes. Yes. Yeah - that- We're the only department that doesn't use them now. That's fine. I mean, I just think that we have a responsibility, especially given concerns across the country about use oftasers and abuse oftasers. And I'll bring a presentation. That's fine. Sure. Can we schedule that for the next work session? Is that ok? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 64 Atkins: Yes. I'll take care of that. Vanderhoef: Ah, the other thing that - if we're gonna have Sam come, the federal COPS program appears to be getting moneys again and this is one of the things that I would like to get Sam's opinion on and it's one of those things that when we used it previously, we were able to absorb the cops that we had hired under the COPS program, because the funding runs out after 5 years, and so I just want to see how we might work that into our plan. Atkins: Ok. It'll be much more difficult - I'll tell you that right up front, to take them on after the expiration is up. Vanderhoef: Well, by attrition, and that's how we have bounced around sometimes in number of police officers. Bailey: And since he's going to be here, might as well have a whole- O'Donnell: It's ok, that's letting (can't hear) Vanderhoef: It's Sam's night. Bailey: Yeah. Atkins: That's fine. It's probably even better. Bailey: With this initiative petition, I think we should have a discussion about our capacity -should a 21 ordinance pass downtown, what our capacity is to do enforcement in the neighborhoods, because I've had quite a few questions about that. And just hear from Sam about how that might change approach, staffing - Wilburn: Deployment- Bailey: Deployment and true capacity to look at some of these potential house parties. We have house parties already going on and I'm not sure that we're doing a lot of PAULA enforcement. Will the new keg registration make that easier? That sort of discussion about what we can anticipate. Correia: Right. Well the other thing too isl'm wondering about other things as well, like sign ordinance, thinking about signage on windows. Bailey: Oh, on Gilbert Street. Correia: On Gilbert Street we had the liquor stores plastered with signs. I know in Madison they have a 21 ordinance and they also then have a regulation in the downtown that you can't serve alcohol anywhere after 9 PM in terms ofliquor stores as well, so I don't know if there are other things. Atkins: Ok. Bailey: That's a serious access issue. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4,2007 Dilkes: Correia: Bailey: O'Donnell: Bailey: Champion: Dilkes: Champion: Dilkes: Champion: Elliott: Bailey: Elliott: Dilkes: Elliott: Champion: Bailey: Champion: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 65 I just want some clarification. Are we talking about things the Council needs to know in order to decide whether you're going to adopt the 21 ordinance? No. If it passes. No. Now Sam is going to- I'm talking about items that will certainly come up as this becomes a public discussion about how, how the City might change its approach should we do a 21 ordinance, or if it doesn't pass, what are our options - I mean, what do we want - you know. But we have to make that decision. I'm going to put on the next agenda, I - you have 60 days to make that decision. Oh, ok. But on the next agenda I'm gonna put the ordinance and you're going to vote on that, you're going to vote up or down on that and if you vote down on it then the next item is going to be a resolution putting it on the ballot. Ok, great, thanks. Eleanor, my question is - Resolution putting it on the ballot would be the next item if we vote down an ordinance. I, I'm assuming that this Council will go for the referendum, I'mjust making that assumption, but if it does, do the enforcement and penalty prospects of 21 and over, is there any difference? Would anything change other than instead of? We're all set - we don't have to change any of those penalties, criminal activities, enforcement - it would be the same? No. We can talk more specifically about it next time, but the only thing that the initiated ordinance does is change the age. Yeah. Good. At the time, at the time. Can we - then can we add to that work session discussion the item that Amy brought up about signage and restriction of alcohol sales and package stores? We can't do that. It seems to me that's a separate work session item. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4,2007 City Council Work Session Page 66 Bailey: But if we're talking about- Wilburn: I understand that some ofthe things that are brought up may likely be discussion points for whomever to educate or lobby the public. But that's a separate item than are you gonna adopt this or - in my opinion, a separate item, are you gonna adopt this or put it on the ballot. Bailey: I certainly see it as a separate item, but on the other hand I think it merits discussion if we're talking about the broad issue of alcohol. Elliott: Are you, Regenia, are you saying we need to be - Dilkes: I think maybe we need, it's not on the agenda so we need to talk about this in more detail next time. Bailey: Ok. Dilkes: But I think one of the things that you're gonna have to be careful about, as with any ballot issue, is you can't use public resources to lobby for or against that ballot issue, so we need to be careful about where we draw those lines. O'Donnell: Ok. Vanderhoef: I think some of the stuff from Sam might come in a written memo so there wouldn't be hearsay going around the community. Atkins: I'll talk to him - at least I can give you the outline. Dilkes: I guess I would advise you - get the thing, do what you're supposed to do under the Charter. Either adopt it or get it on the ballot and then start answering some of those questions you might have. But I think if you get them all mixed up in the same work session and the same agenda - Wilburn: So in other words, memos and things like that from the police chief could be interpreted as being used as lobbying. Dilkes: I think it's cleaner that way. Bailey: Well then can we have Sam - when is the deadline for that grant. Let's use his time smart - well, and if we're going to talk about this next time let's have him at the following. Is that? Elliott: I would also like to have Sam talk to us, because whether we, whether the Council passes 21 and over or it passes with referendum, it is going to initiate a new set of problems, and I'd like to have Sam talk to that, and I'd like the City to be ahead of that. Atkins: That's what 1- Bailey: But Eleanor's point is to keep it a separate discussion, see what we need to do. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 67 Elliott: Right. Right. Dilkes: Because as I understand it that's not information that the Council needs in order to decide to pass it. Elliott: No, no. Champion: And I think even anticipating problems that might occur if it does pass, I think that's politicking it. Bailey: Oh - Champion: I, I do. When you start discussing problems that you think if the ordinance passes might happen. Bailey: No, that's not my intent. My intent is to really have an assessment of capacity to address should - well, I mean. Champion: I think you're going to be accused of trying to make people vote yes or no. Bailey: I've been accused of a lot of things. O'Donnell: And it's all speculation. It's all speculation. Bailey: I agree with Bob. I think we need to be ahead of it, I really do. This is an issue - Elliott: Yes. Wilburn: Well, at a start Eleanor is going to get the ordinance prepared. Champion: Does it take effect immediately if that passes? Dilkes: Yep. Elliott: So December I it could be. Bailey: No. As soon as - Dilkes: As soon as they count that to be put (can't hear) Bailey: And that's why I think Bob is right. We need to be ahead of- Vanderhoef: Wait a minute. I can't hear Eleanor. Dilkes: As soon as they do the canvas. Elliott: Yeah. Bailey: Yeah. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 Wilburn: O'Donnell: Champion: Wilburn: Elliott: O'Donnell: Elliott: Wilburn: Vanderhoef: Champion: Correia: Champion: Correia: Champion: Vanderhoef: Atkins: Wilburn: Correia: Vanderhoef: Correia: City Council Work Session Page 68 The Thursday after the election. Ok. We're - item 15, term expires for the SEATS ParaTransit advisory committee for me. I would be glad to do it again. If anyone else wants an opportunity to serve on a very good board, I would certainly recommend you do this one. Who's on it now, Dee and Mike? Yeah. Oh, Mike you have done a Herculean effort. I have no idea what you've done, but I'm sure it was spectacularly good. Absolutely. Mike again. Ok. We'll hold the fort, Mike. I had one more parking issue. Then I'm going home. I still have something for Council Time. There's a lot of motorcycles and scooters now because of gasoline and cars, and why don't we take some of our parking spaces and make it for motorcycles only or scooters only and put more meters there. We could do that with the bus depot space. Never mind. It was a bad idea. They won't use it down there. It's too far from their classes. They wouldn't use it. Ok- I'm sorry, I have one Council- I have just a real quick Council Time thing. So do I. Dale and I met with Stephanie Bowers, Bev Witwer, and Sarah Baird from the Human Rights Commission about the Partnership for Working Towards Inclusive Communities. It's an initiative of the National League of Cities, and so we've started to come up with some ideas about how to join the National League's partnership and become a city enrolled in this initiative, which would involve different activities that the City would be involved in over a period of time. The Human Rights Commission is going to be, they briefly talked about it a year ago. They're going to talk about it again in their July meeting, to come up with some of the things that they might want to do with this the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 69 initiative. We talked about having a week of Inclusive Communities some time in September or October and then have this be a direct partnership between the Council as a body and the Human Rights Commission to elevate the issue of inclusiveness in Iowa City. And so some of the things that we talked about on the Council side was having Council go through some type of diversity workshop as a body, and obviously that would be open to the public. Have department heads and other City staff in departments especially who deal with the public go through cultural competency training. The last time the City had cultural competency training was in 1999. And then we also talked about ways of having the City as a government entity go through some type of organizational audit. How are we doing on different levels of measuring cultural competency as an organization, and then put out a report on how we're doing and then work on recommendations, and that would kind of be over the year. So there would be some kind of kickoff events, there would be what the City is going to be doing to become an inclusive organization and have that be really kind of out there as a leader in the County for different sectors. So just wanted to bring it forth and have folks think about it and get back. Bailey: There are some really good diversity trainings that are coming up through Diversity Focus. Correia: Yes, and I did put the brochure in the packet. Not that one, the next one. Elliott: I'm sorry, I was thinking did you ever see The Office, the diversity training they did in the program The Office? Oh god, it was unbelievable. Correia: Haven't looked at that one. Elliott: No, don't do that one. Correia: So it would be good actually if some of the City staff might go to the government one on June 15th - there's a government- Bailey: That should be really good. Correia: Yeah. That's in the packet, so - Vanderhoef: And there's an update to that. Ex-president Jim Hunt kicked this off as his one-year thing. He has now created his own website that's coming out under Jim Hunt, and it has video and more ideas and so forth. I scan it, but I don't do a whole lot with it. Correia: Sure. Yeah, yeah. I'll take a look at it. Vanderhoef: But do take a look at it. In fact I've got one that I haven't eliminated right now so probably can't forward all the parts on it. If! don't forget I'll bring my computer down tomorrow night and you can take a look. Correia: Ok. Ok. So do folks feel comfortable with Dale and I continuing kind of on the Council continuing on that? Champion: Definitely. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 Vanderhoef: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Wilburn: Vanderhoef: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Vanderhoef: Karr: Vanderhoef: (laughter) City Council Work Session Page 70 Tickled pink. I don't think cultural competence training en masse as an open meeting is a good idea, but. With all of us it has to be an open meeting. I don't think it's very effective. We, last time we met we ran out of time and were not able to set a date for staff evaluations and we should do that. I don't have my calendar. Are you tossing out some dates or? Well, I had them last time we met. Well, I know we mentioned the 11th and I absolutely can't do it next week at all. Ok. I did not bring my calendar. I can tell you- I'm sorry - are you talking to the group or to Ross? I can't hear a thing. Do you want me to? Doesn't matter. Vanderhoef: No, I'm keeping secrets from you Marian. Karr: No, Ijust don't, if you want me to record it I can't. Vanderhoef: All I'm saying to him is that I can't do that without my calendar here, and I had it here last time and I didn't bring it tonight. Champion: Well can't we set a couple dates? O'Donnell: July 2nd. Bailey: June 22nd. Wilburn: Marian is looking at the calendar there where each of us supposedly- Karr: July 22nd? Bailey: June 22nd in the afternoon. Then I get to be at Council all day. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 71 Correia: That works for me. Karr: June 22nd won't work for Bob or Dee. Bailey: Ok. O'Donnell: How about July 2nd? Karr: July 2nd according to my calendar will work if Ross is back from something on the 1 st. Champion: What day of the week is that on? Karr: It's a Monday. O'Donnell: The 4th is a Wednesday so it's a Monday. Elliott: July what? Karr: July 2nd is a Monday, and Ross I've got you gone the 29th, 30th and 1 S\ so I don't know if you're - I assume you're back the 2nd. Wilburn: Yes. Bailey: That works. Wilburn: After 9 o'clock I can't- O'Donnell: 10 o'clock on the 2nd? Champion: I will not be able to stay past noon, so we probably need to start before 10. Bailey: At 9. Ok. Wilburn: I already made a commitment to the Mahtaamritdanya something - Coralville, for diversity. Karr: It's that day. Bailey: That's right. Wilburn: Ahjust, I would be done by 9 o'clock. Vanderhoef: So 9:30? O'Donnell: 9:15 on the 2nd. Elliott: Can we check and confirm tomorrow night? Karr: July 2nd, 9: 15 tentatively? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4,2007. June 4, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 72 Wilburn: Tentatively. We'll check that tomorrow night. Dee? Vanderhoef: I think it will be, but let me double check it. O'Donnell: I listened to everybody's schedule and I wrote it down at home and that's the date I came up with that the most people were going to be here, all of them. Bailey: Will you help me schedule meetings from now on? O'Donnell: Absolutely not. Elliott: Mike, you're just smarter than a whip. O'Donnell: Thank you. Wilburn: Ok. See you tomorrow night. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 4, 2007.