HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-06-19 Transcription
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ITEM 2 PROCLAMATIONS.
a) Pride Month: June 2007
Wilburn: (reads proclamation)
Karr: Here to accept the proclamation is Carlton Blackburn. ( applause)
Blackburn: On behalf of the Pride Committee, we thank you for the City Council and
the City's continued support of diversity in Iowa City. Thank you.
Wilburn: Thank you.
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Council meeting of June 19, 2007.
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ITEM 3 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS
PRESENTED OR AMENDED.
Bailey: Move adoption.
Champion: Move adoption.
Wilburn: It's been moved by Bailey, seconded by Champion. Discussion?
Elliott: One of the items on there is the virtual disbandment of the Deer Task
Force, and Ijust wanted to make sure that those members past and present
understand that we appreciate the work they've done, but the way things
have gone in the past few years, it. . . there really is not much of a need for
it, because we get some information from the DNR and we do what we
have been doing in the past. So.. .thanks to the Deer Task Force.
Vanderhoef: I'll second that.
Wilburn: We also had included in our. .. packet, in the Consent Calendar section, a
request by Jim Mondanaro regarding sidewalk cafe, and we did receive the
DVD - thank you for putting that together for us, and so ifthere's
anything you'd like to add to that, Jim, or any questions that Council
Members might have for him? (several talking at once)
Mondanaro: Any questions?
Wilburn: It's pretty creative use of the space. I hadn't thought of that. That's
probably why I'm not in your business! So...
Mondanaro: Well, I would appreciate that, and uh, again, ifthere's any questions, feel
free to call me. I think my cell phone's on that packet, and we can go
from there, if that's okay. (several talking)
Dilkes: So do I take that then as a direction to prepare the ordinance.. .if that's
necessary?
Wilburn: That's a yes. Okay. Any other comments? Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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Council meeting of June 19, 2007.
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ITEM 4
Wilburn:
Engel:
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COMMUNITY COMMENT (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
This is a chance for the public to address the Council on items that do not
appear on tonight's agenda. If you wish to address the Council, please
state your name for the record and limit your comments to five minutes or
less.
Bob Engel, a Representative of the Senior Center Commission. My
comments will be very brief tonight, thankfully. I'm sure you have a long
agenda. Urn, just a word or two about facilities, and I know that
Coordinator Kopping has already informed the Council through the City
Manager about some of the pending and long-range facility, some of them
not so long-range, facility needs, so I won't go into any of those. I do
want to mention though that one of the projects we've worked on this
year, and it's just completed, is the Assembly Room redecoration, and I
want to mention that because perhaps many of the people who watch the
Council meeting, and this program, do not know that the Senior Center
often receives from people who have appreciated their participation in the
Center some charitable gifts, and we have a Charitable Giving Account, as
the Council knows, urn, and we've used some of the money from that this
year to pay for the Assembly Room work, and uh, I just wanted the public
to know that the Commission has transferred $66,839 from that fund to the
City to pay for those expenses. I want to spend just the next minute or two
and that'll be it on programs and activities. You may know that, that over
70 programs of an educational or special nature were offered between
February 1 st and April 30th. Now these programs involved 69 different
individuals as instructors, lecturers, or presenters. Forty-five of those
programs, about 64%, were open to the general public. They didn't have
to be members of the Senior Center to attend. I mention that because if
any of you have ever had responsibility to find instructors for interesting
programs and to have to corne up with 69 of those, and promote those to
the public, it's a big undertaking. We felt that we had a very good period
there, and I want to add that during the month of June, for example, we are
offering 31 courses this month alone, of which 14 are new courses. So,
again, the need on the part of the staff and others to corne up with those
courses and to offer them is a pretty significant staff responsibility, and
they do it very, very well. Some of you are aware that on June 1 S\ during
the Fine Arts Festival, the Center sponsored it's annual band extravaganza
and that extravaganza invited the bands from several other Iowa
communities, in particular Quad Cities, Des Moines, and Cedar Rapids
sent their band to join the Iowa City New Horizons Band, and for an
afternoon of concerts at the Englert Theatre, which were quite well
attended, and brought, of course, a number of people from our neighboring
sister cities to Iowa City to see what kinds of things we do here. We're
very proud of the success of that operation, and finally, I want to point out
that on July 20th, we'll be holding our Annual Breakfast of Appreciation
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for the many, many volunteers that work at the Senior Center, and that
breakfast will be from 7:30 to 9:30 A.M., and those volunteers will be
invited, of course, as guests, but I wanted to mention it also for the
Council, because many of you have volunteered beyond what's required
of you, in behalf of the Center and other agencies in Iowa City, so if you
want a free breakfast - there is a free breakfast - you're invited, and if you
want to see Jay Honohan flip pancakes, why.. .it's on July 20th, 7:30 to
9:30. That's really all I had to say tonight, unless some of you have
questions. My report is complete.
Vanderhoef: I would just say thank you for the contributions to the redecoration.
Engel: Sure. Good way to use the funds. Thank you.
Wilburn: Thank you.
Horan: I'm Howard Horan. I'm the current Chair of the Airport Commission. I
just wanted to come and see ifthere was any questions. Randy Hartwig is
here, and he has a little more detailed report. I want to say that I think that
our current program of inviting elected officials of all stripes to come and
see the Airport has been a significant success. It's illuminated a lot of
things that are happening at the Airport. Once again, I beat the same
drum. It's important to remember and understand that the facilities that
we have at the Iowa City Airport allow you and anyone else to get on an
airplane, early in the morning, fly to either coast, and come home the same
day. Now, that's important for us, but it might be more important for
other people to want to develop opportunities in our community, and I
want to also, more personally, say that I'm proud to have worked with
Steve and Karin for these years, and I wish Jeff the best, and thank you
very much.
Wilburn: Thank you.
Hartwig: Thank you, Howard, and I echo your, uh, comments concerning Steve and
Karin. Appreciate your help and support and all you've done for Iowa
City. Urn, Howard mentioned the visits. We recently had Representative
Loebsack there. I think a couple Fridays ago, and a very good discussion
about the FAA reauthorization and how that affects airports like Iowa City
and general aviation. I think he enjoyed it, and got a lot out of it. Janelle
had him well briefed, and he also toured the operator performance lab over
there, and I think was impressed with what Tom and the University's
doing there. So we appreciate him taking time to do that. Urn, we went
over the runway extension project, which of course is mostly federal
funded, and presently, we're just finishing the grading, and I think in the
next three weeks or so, put out to bid the concrete.. . construction season
yet, we'll see that put down, and I don't want to leave out the State.
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They've been very good, particularly this past year, in upping what funds
are available for aviation projects here in Iowa. We're just finishing the
project for replacing some taxilanes on the south and that should be done
yet this week, and we just got notification that two of the projects we, urn,
applied for, for this coming fiscal year, are approved and waiting to do to
the Transportation Commission. One of those is to do some more taxilane
improvements and then also to upgrade the self-serve fuel facilities there,
which will be, I think, a real plus, especially for aircare users that come in
in the middle of the night, they can get fuel now without waiting to get
back in, back in the air, and urn, so we appreciate that. And, that was it, I
guess, unless you have any other questions?
Wilburn:
Thank you.
Hartwig:
Thanks.
Wilburn:
Anyone else care to address the Council on an item that does not appear
on tonight's agenda?
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Council meeting of June 19, 2007.
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ITEM 5 PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
a) CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING FOR
JULY 10, 2007 ON AN ORDINANCE REZONING
APPROXIMATEL Y 2.35 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED
AT 802 S. CLINTON STREET FROM INTENSIVE
COMMERCIAL (CI-l) ZONE TO NEIGHBORHOOD PUBLIC
(P-l) ZONE (REZ07-00009)
Champion: Move to set the public hearing.
O'Donnell: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Champion, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion?
Correia: I have to abstain due to a conflict of interest since I'll be working at this
new Administration Building.
Wilburn: All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign. Item carries 6-0, with
Correia abstaining due to a conflict of interest.
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Council meeting of June 19,2007.
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ITEM 5
Wilburn:
Franklin:
Wilburn:
Franklin:
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PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
c)CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 15.42
ACRES OF LAND LOCATED SOUTH AND WEST OF
WHISPERING MEADOWS DRIVE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) TO HIGH DENSITY
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-12) (REZ06-00025)
WHISPERING MEADOWS PART 4
d)CONDITIONALL Y REZONING APPROXIMATELY 34.86
ACRES OF LAND LOCATED SOUTH AND WEST OF
WHISPERING MEADOWS DRIVE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) AND HIGH DENSITY
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-12) TO PLANED
DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY 8 (OPD-8) AND PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY 12 (OPD-12) (REZ06-00026)
WHISPERING MEADOWS PART 4
a. PUBLIC HEARING
This is a public hearing. (pounds gavel) Public hearing is open.
Since this item and the next one are related, might we talk about them
together? Okay.
You got it.
Urn, basically what you have for this development, which is Whispering
Meadows Part 4, is two rezoning requests. The first is to rezone
approximately 15 acres, shown in the crosshatched area on the illustration,
from RS-8 to RS-12, and then to rezone the entire area - let me go back on
that one. I think this will be easier to see. The entire area, which includes
this crosshatched area, as well as the other area that's basically blank here,
and that rezoning is a sensitive areas overlay rezoning. The RS-8 to RS-
12 is to permit a small-lot development, as shown in this illustration. In an
RS-8 zone, you basically can have single-family detached housing with
duplexes on the comer, and RS-12, you are permitted to have attached
single-family housing on smaller lots of 3,000 square feet at a minimum,
with lot widths down to 20 feet. The rezoning of this from RS-8 to RS-12
is consistent with our Comprehensive Plan, which indicates a desire to
have a diversity in housing in neighborhoods. This will provide some
diversity in this neighborhood, since most of the development around it
right now is single-family detached. This will provide an opportunity for
some zero-lot lines. The Planning and Zoning Commission did
recommend, as the staff did, in favor of this rezoning. The Commission's
vote was 4 to 2, and those two votes that were in opposition had to do with
the design of the subdivision and the street extension, which I'm going to
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get to in a minute. The second rezoning has to do with a sensitive areas
ordinance, and because this is an area which has extensive wetlands, and
I'm going to show you a different, urn, illustration that we can enlarge if
there's any parts that need it. Okay. What this is showing is the final plat,
the final drawing, after the wetlands mitigation has been accomplished.
This is a piece of property in which there are stream corridors that run
through it in a number of places. What this development is doing is taking
some of the wetlands areas that are in this area where there are lots that are
platted, and essentially relocating the wetland into this area here, to
reconstruct a wetland. It's basically called compensatory wetlands, or
relocation of the wetlands, and they are put in to take the place of the ones
that are removed by development. As far as the wetland mitigation, urn,
the associated buffers with the wetlands, the woodland impact, which this
also had removal of more than 50% of the woodlands. These are the two
factors that brought it to the level of a rezoning, as opposed to a plat
(coughing) excuse me, a plan review. Urn, those particular issues have
been resolved. There are no outstanding issues. In the sensitive areas
rezoning there is a conditional zoning which indicates that there will be
more monitoring on this site than one would typically have with a
sensitive areas overlay, in that the reports of the Corp will be, urn, made
available to the City. This will go on for a set period of years, given the
time within which this property is likely to develop. We do have, as far as
I know, urn, agreement on that particular conditional zoning. Neither of
the conditional zonings are signed now, so you will need to continue the
public hearing, and defer first consideration. Just as an aside. Okay, the
outstanding issues. I'm going to go back to my other. . . the outstanding
issues have to do with two things: one is the street connection that will
ultimately go to Sycamore Street, and the other is neighborhood open
space, and I'm going to start with the street connection, and basically the
question is, is who pays for a portion of the extension of this street as it
traverses the Sycamore greenway. This illustration shows you where the
traffic will go from this development when it is completed. Basically,
there are just a few choices. Now, one of course is Whispering Meadows
Drive, that one could go down Whispering Meadows Drive and up
Whispering Prairie Avenue. However, given the destinations of most
people, that is the downtown or the commercial areas, it is likely that
people are going to take the most direct route, which would be Nevada to
Lakeside Drive to Sycamore. The concern is with the traffic counts that
we already have on Lakeside Drive, and adding to it all of the traffic from
this area going up Nevada to Lakeside Drive. So the resolution of that
was, was to extend a street to the west that at such time as this
development proceeds, this is General Quarters, as this proceeds, that
street would continue on to Sycamore, and you would have two ways to
provide egress from this subdivision to areas where people are likely to be
going. Urn, let me go back here. So, this shows you.. .1'11 use this one,
because it's a little cleaner. This one shows you where Whispering
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Council meeting of June 19,2007.
#5c & d
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
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Meadows Drive would come through this particular project and then
it.. .as it would approach the Sycamore greenway, which is right here.
That's what this parce12-A essentially is. As it crosses the greenway,
there is this connection here and this piece that is the point of
disagreement, in that the developer believes that the City should pay for
this connection. The Planning and Zoning recommendation and the staff
recommendation is that the development should be responsible for this
extension over the Sycamore greenway, and that is the question that is
presented to the Council to resolve.
Karin?
Yes?
I'm having a hard...I mean, I drove out into this area today, so I was.. . and
I was on Whispering Meadows. . .
Urn-huh.
How long of.. . you were just showing the.. .how long of a street?
In terms of where we've got a question about it?
Yeah. There's already...
The... the west boundary of Whispering Meadows Part 4 subdivision, the
property that is owned by the developer is this line right here.
Okay.
From here to here is the Sycamore greenway.
Then on the other side of that there's already a road?
The other. . .no, there is not a road there yet.
Oh,oh.
On the other side would be General Quarters, which is a private
development that, as with many developments, you then get to the.. . the
developer builds to the end of their subdivision and then the next
developer takes it on to the next to provide circulation for their
subdivision. So it just continues the street network. So, the point is.. .of
debate, is who is responsible for this piece right in here.
And that's.. .how.. . quarter mile?
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Franklin: Oh, no. It's maybe, mmm, a hundred feet.
Correia: Okay.
Franklin: Maybe a little bit more than that. It's costly because there is some
drainage issues here that need to be taken care of, in terms of a culvert and
it's just a little bit more expensive...it is more expensive than it would be
if it was just a straight shot.
Correia: And so, that piece would cross the bike path?
Franklin: It would.. .this, this is a street that would cross the Sycamore greenway,
and would cross the trail, yes. It was contemplated as development of the
Sycamore greenway was put in that we would have crossings at various
points, just as that whole area developed, because that greenway...
Vanderhoef: How does that. . .
Franklin: .. .goes all the way down here.
Vanderhoef: How does the General Quarters property circulate right now?
Franklin: Right now, only this portion of General Quarters is constructed, and it
goes up Gable. In fact, in General Quarters, when that was developed,
they were responsible for putting the road in here, and as the developer,
Steve Warden, will argue, this was the only means of access for General
Quarters so it's not exactly analogous.
Elliott: Amy, I don't know if it will help you, but I was going to ask Karin in the
brief time she has left if she would take me out by the hand. I walk a dog
out there, just with great frequency, and I'm not good at conceptualizing.
I would really benefit from being out there, walking, and saying...
Franklin: Sure, that would be a good idea.
Elliott: .. .this is where that is, and Amy, ifthere's a time when you'd like to do
that, your time is...is more valuable than my time, so.. . (laughter and
several talking at once).
Franklin: Okay, so.. .go ahead.
Correia: Being out there today, it's.. .the development, to me, seems very.. .more
west, I mean, than I thought when I first.. .when I was just looking at the
minutes of the Planning and Zoning and looking at this. It seems like...
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Franklin: In terms of where this subdivision is located is farther west than you
thought it was?
Correia: Yeah, I mean, I thought it was maybe more behind.. .I'm not sure where I
thought it was, but where it is (laughter) it seems like people are
leaving.. .it's pretty close to get on Highway 6 from.. .what's the name of
that street that goes by, urn, that T &M Mini Mart when you come in. . .
Franklin: That's Lakeside.. .here's Lakeside Drive. Okay, and Highway 6 is up
here.
Correia: Right, but the other way. Instead of going.. .when you leave the
development, you would turn left and you would pass Grant Wood and go
to Sycamore, but if you turn right, you just loop around real quick and
there's Highway 6.
Franklin: Uh-huh.
Correia: Right, but I'm just saying...
Franklin: Right, and you're saying that you think more of the traffic is going to go to
the east to get to the highway.
Correia: .. . quick you'll be on the highway and you don't have to go through all of
that. I mean, I don't know how the patterns of what people are going to
say, or the way people are going to travel, urn...
Franklin: We speculate, but generally speaking, people will go in the direction that
they want to be, where their destination is, as opposed to going in an
opposite direction and then coming back, even if it's quicker. Just 'cause
it doesn't.. . (several talking at once). So, I think.. .the point here for the
Council to wrestle with is the question of who pays for that section of the
road. Is it the developer? Is it the City? Is it a shared cost? This is
$260,000 we're talking about.
Vanderhoef: Okay, Karin, you gave us some figures on number of trips generated, urn,
with the upzoning...
Franklin: Uh-huh.
Vanderhoef: .. .as it's presently presented to us, as 800...
Franklin: 850 vehicle trips per day.
Vanderhoef: . . . yeah. Fifty or sixty. So what would the, the number of trips generated
be if this were not upzoned?
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Franklin: 710.
Vanderhoef: Okay.
Franklin: She warned me about that. I didn't just figure it out right now. (laughter)
No, I did figure it out right now!
Wilburn: You're just that good!
Vanderhoef: We know you're that good!
Correia: Have we taken into consideration.. .use of public transit?
Franklin: No.
Correia: Because it's...
Franklin: It's projected on a, I think it's seven vehicle trips per day. Oh, it does?
I'm sorry, it does. The transit. . .he knows. It is.
Correia: Say that again.
Franklin: It does take transit into consideration.
Correia: So, it assumes that everybody takes seven trips.. . everybody in a, each
home is going to take seven trips back and forth?
Davidson: The trip generation number, it varies depending on access to public transit,
access to, you know, if you're close enough then, walking and biking, then
that number comes down. For example, for a county subdivision, where
none of those things are available, we would use ten trips per day per unit.
Correia: Somebody takes ten trips per day?
Davidson: Right, that a dwelling unit generates ten trips per day. In the city where
you have other modes of transportation available, such as transit, we back
that off to seven.
Correia: I guess I did four today. Will do four.
Franklin: Wait 'til your daughters are driving. (laughter)
Wilburn: Any other questions of Karin before...
Franklin: I've got one more point on the neighborhood open space.
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Elliott: And then I have a question too. Go ahead.
Franklin: Okay. The neighborhood open space is the other issue. I don't know how
much of an issue it is, but as it left Planning and Zoning, the debate was,
or the question was, whether Outlot A, kind of this dark area here, would
be private open space, or it would be dedicated to the City to meet the
neighborhood open space requirements. There's a requirement for 1.82
acres of neighborhood open space. This is 6.2, I think. Yeah, 6
something.
O'Donnell: What was that again, Karin?
Franklin: Pardon me?
O'Donnell: What were those numbers?
Franklin: 1.82 is the requirement, and that area is 6 something. Yes, the developer
had requested that it be taken as dedication so that fees in lieu of would
not need to be paid. This was taken to the Parks and Recreation
Commission, which is the usual process. The Parks and Recreation
Commission were not interested in it. Primarily it appears, although
there's probably two reasons, one is this is kind of a wooded, boggy area.
So it does not necessarily serve as play space, certainly. Urn, the other
thing, however, which may be more, may have been more compelling for
the Commission was that there's a lot of downed trees. There's stuff that
needs to be taken out of there, and they did not want to accept it with all of
the debris and whatever that was in there. So, at this point, it stands that
there is an obligation to pay fees in lieu of 1.82 acres of dedication. Well,
probably a little bit less than that, because there is a dedication of a
walkway down here that will fulfill part of the requirement. Urn, so it's
fees and the developer, I think, is still interested in the dedication to the
City, but he can address that with you. Okay? So, cost - how's going to
pay on the road, and the neighborhood open space. (several talking at
once)
Elliott: You just covered my question.
Franklin: Oh!
Correia: I have a question about the...
Vanderhoef: .. .one more on Parks. Uh, the requirement is 1.82 acres. However, in that
neighborhood, what do we have in meeting our goal of acreage for a play
park for the number of citizens?
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Franklin: Okay, the Neighborhood Open Space Plan, which goes back a few years,
in the Grant Wood School area, which is what this is considered to be, the
plan indicated a deficit of 1.88 acres; however, it did recognize that, urn,
there should be some discounting given to Whispering Meadows due to
the active neighborhood open space suitability problems, that is that the
Whispering Meadows, urn, wetland area is not a play area, and that a three
to four acre park in the south part of the district, the south part of the
district would be all the way down to the corporate limits, urn, should be
considered, and trails linking the neighborhood with community parks and
schools should also be considered. Now, this was prior to the Sycamore
greenway being constructed. So, that.. . that direction from the plan is not
updated to reflect the fact that we now have the Sycamore greenway,
which is a trail and a, an active area, although not a flat play area.
Correia: There is, then, for this development access to the Sycamore greenway
trail, through their Meadows Park, Grant Wood School park which has
new play equipment, partially supported by CDBG funds.
Franklin: Uh-huh. There will be access here to the trail as it goes east-west and then
south, and I'm looking for a good illustration. There's also access,
because it's right up against the greenway here, and the trail goes through
here, and then proceeds up north to Lakeside Drive to the school. So
there's a connection with that road with Whispering Meadows Drive as it
comes through also.
Correia: And there's also on Lakeside that pond. I don't know if that's. . .to the
east, with benches.
Franklin: The Wetlands Park?
Wilburn: Yes, yeah.
Franklin: Yeah, uh-huh.
O'Donnell: Karin?
Wilburn: I'm sorry, Mike, excuse me. Regenia's been waiting for...
O'Donnell: Oh, go ahead. I didn't understand that.
Bailey: I wanted to ask about the woodlands and the removal of the trees, given
that there's a petition with my parents' signature on it in this packet. Can
you talk about that just a little bit?
Franklin: Urn, in the code, you may within these zones removed up to 50% of the
trees. In the proposal, there is removal of 63%; however, that can happen
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ifthere is an obligation that is in the documents for the development that
those trees will be replaced, and they have. . . they have made
accommodations to replace those trees at the ratio that would be
necessary.
Bailey: There seems to be some interest, unless I'm misreading the Planning and
Zoning minutes, there seemed to be some interest on the part of the
develop, and he can speak to this, about maintaining as many trees as
possible, and Ijust wanted to get a sense if that was accurate.
Franklin: Yeah, there was discussion about, particularly along this boundary with
the existing development...
Bailey: And I think that...is the primary concern for (unable to hear).
Franklin: Sure, urn, to identify trees that could remain there. That was discussed at
the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Bailey: And they didn't require it because. . .
Franklin: Right, because it was, urn, as I understand and Steve can certainly respond
to this, that the response was it's difficult to identify exactly what trees
would be retained at this point in time. By the time they do a final plat,
they hope to be able to do that, but it's in their interest also to retain as
many trees as possible for the benefit of the lots. It was not something that
was pushed by the Planning and Zoning Commission, urn, as any kind of
requirement for this development, because they do meet the code.
Bailey: It's something that I would like to hear the developer talk about and push a
little bit, because I think that is of concern, urn, in this area.
Wilburn: Mike?
O'Donnell: Karin, did I understand you right. Are we moving a wetland? And how
big is that wetland, and do we know approximately how much that will
cost?
Franklin: We're not moving it.
O'Donnell: I know we're not.
Franklin: Oh.
O'Donnell: But we're requiring it to be moved.
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Franklin: Well, I would not say that. We're not requiring it to be moved. In order
for this development to occur, that wetland needs to be accommodated.
That's federal law. So, yes, and so.. . sorry I can't tell you the exact
acreage and how much it's going to cost to do all of that, but, the wetland
could stay right where it was, but then if it did, these lots couldn't be here.
These probably couldn't be there. There's some others, I'm sure, that
would be eliminated, as a consequence. So, it's in the developer's interest
to be able to relocate the wetland and recreate it, to then make space for
development.
Wilburn: And federal law allows that as long as.. .one acre?
Franklin: Yeah.
Wilburn: Essentially you're allowed to move, to do exactly what...
Franklin: Yes. This... the plan for this has gone to the Corps, as far as we know,
unless there's more news tonight. The report is not back yet, but, urn, this
all has to be approved. That's one of the stipulations ofthe CZA, the
Conditional Zoning Agreement.
Bailey: And wetlands have different qualities. I mean, there are high quality
wetlands and.. .what is the quality of this current wetland? Do we know?
Or.. . was that just.. .
Franklin: As I recall, the quality of this wetland is not premiere, or one would not
allow that kind of disruption and relocation. I mean, that's all part of the
evaluation that is done. Urn...
Wilburn: By the Corps of Engineers, right?
Franklin: Right.
Vanderhoef: But the wetland mitigation, still they have to put more acres back than
what they take out.
Franklin: Yes, yes.
Vanderhoef: So, in our greenway area, which is certainly a storm water cleaning area, if
you will, any addition to the wetland along that area certainly would be
beneficial, I would think, for that whole area.
Franklin: Uh-huh.
Vanderhoef: Uh, if you're done, Mike, are you finished?
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O'Donnell: What's that?
Vanderhoef: Are you finished?
O'Donnell: A long time ago.
Vanderhoef: Okay. Uh, I want to get back to just, uh, go one more point on the park
situation. Unless I have forgotten something, the nearest play park that
would be in that five to seven acre size for anyone living in this area
would be over at Wetherby. Fair Meadows is just not that big. (several
talking at once) That's funded as park?
Correia: It's a park.
Vanderhoef: Well, I know that the little park (several talking at once) yeah, the park has
always been there, and then there's been collaboration between the School
and the Park, but it's tiny. (several talking)
Elliott: Grant Wood is huge!
Correia: .. .beautiful! It's brand new.
Vanderhoef: I've seen that, but that's all, urn, improved with recreation swings and
slides and...
Bailey: But there's also an open space between Fair Meadows and Grant Wood, if
you're talking about playing baseball or soccer. Fair Meadows on Nevada
and Lakeside. . . .
Vanderhoef: At the comer.
Bailey: Right, and then beside the school, there's the play area that we helped
build with CDBG, and in between there's a wide open field.
Vanderhoef: So what's the total acreage of. . .
Franklin: This shows you the.. .the school area and this must be the park here,
because it's right on the comer.
Champion: And I think school playgrounds have become part of our park system.
Franklin: I mean, we're talking about from here to.. . (several talking at once).
Vanderhoef: It is just the open play area without improvements. Don't get me wrong!
The improvements are great, but the.. .the Neighborhood Open Space
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Plan, uh, looked at five to seven acres of open area, and I didn't think
probably there was that kind of space at that location.
Franklin: And I guess I would have to say that I don't think this is the spot for it,
because of how wet it is. Urn, in this area.
Vanderhoef: Oh, that's what I'm saying. So what I'm also saying is that the nearest big
open, five to seven acre or more size play park is Wetherby, which is west
of Sycamore Street, which is in another neighborhood, because Sycamore
is the boundary, and the impediment for small children to cross on their
own.
Correia: I mean, I think that Grant Wood School area and Fair Meadows together
is, I don't know how many acres it is, but it's plenty big for many, many
play activities that've happened.
Vanderhoef: Okay, I'll take another look at it.
Elliott: Can I contact you, Karin, then?
Franklin: Yes, please.
Elliott: And any other Council Person who wants to do that, can you just
coordinate that, in checked with you, you'd let me know when we can do
it? (several talking)
Franklin: Yeah, make it in the week! (laughter) And I can only go with three of
you.
Wilburn: That's right.
Vanderhoef: Can you do it next week rather than this week?
Elliott: Yes, yes.
Vanderhoef: I'd like to go out and walk it too, but I'm not available until next week.
Wilburn: Okay, public hearing is still open if anyone cares to address the Council.
Gordon: Urn, good evening. My name is Steve Gordon. I'm with AM
Management. I'm here to talk about this development. I'm glad to take
any of you out there, too. I don't know if that's legal or not, but if you
want a tour, I'm glad to...
Wilburn: As long as there's not more than three of us there.
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Gordon:
Dilkes:
Wilburn:
Gordon:
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Yep, so, you're welcome to give me a call.
You can go with him, you can go with Karin, just as long as you report it
at your next meeting.
Ex Parte. Okay.
I want to thank you for allowing me to speak about this development
tonight. I also want to thank staff. This has been a long process. We've,
as you can see, it's an interesting site, and we've spent a lot of time with
them in trying to make this a good development. I'm just going to start
with a little history of the project. I think that may be helpful. We first
had meetings with staff on this project in 2004, so as I mentioned, it's
been a long process. The site contains both woodlands and wetlands;
however, the wetlands were deemed to be low quality and the original
concept plan was focused more on preserving the woodlands and
mitigating off-site for the wetlands. We were initially told by staff that we
could participate in the cost of a wetland enhancement project that was
being done on the Sycamore greenway, down on the south end of the
greenway. The City was creating a large, high quality area of wetlands to
mitigate for some smaller, lower quality wetlands that they were
destroying, doing some City street projects. Urn, they were creating
excess wetlands and by us participating in the cost, it was going to be a
win-win situation for everybody. It.. .because this has taken so long, the
City has since needed those wetlands for other projects they've done, so
that offer has been rescinded and kind of, urn, partially what was led to
what you see here today. Urn, the original concept plans called for
secondary access to the south. That's where it was proposed. Whispering
Meadows Drive did not go through to the west. Urn, as we started to get
into more details, we discovered that there was a blueline stream on the
property. As stated in the staff report, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, is not a high-quality, blueline stream and is actually pretty
much a farm drainage ditch, but none the less this required a change to the
concept as we had to protect that blueline. So, we redesigned the
development showing Whispering Meadows Drive ending in a cul-de-sac.
Urn, and then we worked around the blueline stream. We discussed our
desire to provide a mix of housing and to rezone part of the property to
RS-12 so we could accommodate some townhomes. After several
revisions and coming to agreement on where the townhomes would be
located, it was then determined by staff that Whispering Meadows Drive
should be extended to the west, over the south Sycamore greenway. We
then met with the DNR and decided that enhancing the wetlands on site,
urn, and improving the drainage ditch and the wetlands that are there,
would be the proper course of action. So, urn, what we came up. . . that's
the final drawing you see here tonight. Urn, our goal was initially to
create, our goal has always been to create a mix, a nice mix of affordable
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housing in a natural setting, and I believe we've accomplished that with
this plan, and we have maintained a large portion of the woodland area.
We have almost 40% of the site in open space with the wetland and the
woodland area. We have connection to the City-wide trail system. The
plat has 76 single-family lots and 46 townhome lots, with most of those
lots either being wooded and/or backing up to the Sycamore greenspace,
or to green space within the development, or the parkland at the Sycamore
greenspace. And the total density of the site is less than 3.5 units per acre.
Urn, I guess now on to Whispering Meadows Drive, as Karin mentioned.
That's the disagreement we've had to this point. Seems like we've
worked everything else out for the most part. Urn, staff feels because we
are upzoning part of the property from RS-8 to RS-12, that the Whispering
Meadows Drive should be a collector street and connect to the west. Urn,
we have agreed to accommodate that, that Whispering Meadows Drive is a
collector street, urn, and run it to the west end of our property line. Staff
also feels we should pay to cross the Sycamore greenway, which is City-
owned land, and the Sycamore waterway, which is a City storm water
project. As mentioned before, the cost of this connection is estimated to
be between $260,000 and $300,000 because of the difficult of that
crossing. Urn, the reason for the upzone of this ground is to create a
diversified neighborhood of mix of housing, more affordable housing, and
enhancement to the natural features that are there. We have given a lot to
accommodate these enhancements. We've agreed to make Whispering
Meadows a collector street, and run it to our west property line, which was
different from the original concept. Urn, we've agreed to monitor the
wetlands beyond the five-year requirement, until construction is
substantially complete, urn, we have agreed to enhance the sensitive
features on site and we, urn, to accommodate the townhome lots. As part
of the code, we will be putting alleys in to accommodate those lots, and
not including Whispering Meadows Drive to the west, we have provided
three access points to this development, two of which will immediately
connect to existing streets. Urn, staff has made it clear that the reason we
should pay to extend Whispering Meadows Drive outside our property line
is because we are upzoning the property. Our current plat has 76 single-
family homes and 46 townhomes, for a total of 122 homes. Ifwe were to
follow the RS-8 zoning, as the land is zoned now, and minimize the
disturbance of the local quality sensitive features, maintain the buffer
around the blueline, urn, minimize the disturbance of a few wetlands to get
the road in, but the big chunk: of wetlands is down in the, in the lower left-
hand comer, or the lower right-hand comer. We could get 108 single-
family homes under the RS-8 zone. So essentially what the upzoning is
allowing is it's allowing us to substitute 46 townhomes instead of 32-
single family homes. These 14 extra units, we don't feel.. .we feel is not
an enhancement to us as a developer, but an enhancement to the consumer
in the form of lower-priced housing. The value to us of 32 single-family
lots, versus the value of 46 townhome lots, the single family lots are equal
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or greater than that value. The upzone is to enhance the project, not to
create more density and more profit. Urn, the project just cannot support
an additional $260,000 or $300,000 it costs to pay for the infrastructure on
land owned by others. So, we feel we have gone above and beyond to
create a quality, livable, affordable project on a very difficult site, and we
feel the City should do the same and pay for the infrastructure on their
land. Urn, there were a few questions I will address. The open space,
again, that was, it was.. . discussion we had with P&Z, we have over 13
acres of open space in this development. To have to pay a fee in lieu of
seemed, urn, a little onerous; however, I do understand the code and it's
the City's, you know, right to require either or. So we requested that they
consider that, P&Z did consider that. Urn, I believe the Parks and Rec
Commission met again and have agreed to at least consider that, if we
clean up the, that piece of ground that Karin was talking about. I don't
know if we're talking about the whole 6 acres or just the 1.8 that we need.
Urn, so I guess, I need to understand what they mean or some specs on
what they want, compare that to the cost of fees in lieu, and again, go
either way on that, but urn, if I can get some specs on that at some point,
and then the trees. The original design had a cul-de-sac, which would
have, of course, preserved more trees in that north-west comer by putting
the street through and lots there, that urn, that effected the trees somewhat.
Also, some of the trees, that's part of what's considered the wooded area.
I don't know if you can see on the map, but there's kind of a thin line of
trees that snakes around the, urn, what's considered the blueline, or the
drainage ditch. That's part of the overall trees. Those again were
preserved in our original plan because we weren't disturbing that area, but
I think by enhancing that area, we have lost those trees, which somewhat
goes towards the being over 50% and urn, and enhancing it with a much
nicer plan. I have met with the neighbors. The discussion at P&Z, as was
mentioned, is on the very north, north-west end of the property, there is
some drainage problems there. Urn, the neighbors to the north have
mentioned that. There is some drainage issues. We'll, of course, have to,
have to deal with that, so there's a 20-foot easement in there that we may
need to clear some area to make sure the water drains, both from our side
and to the north. It collects there now from the northern subdivisions, and
we'll certainly solve that problem, which a lot of the neighbors were
happy with. And there's not many trees in that area.
Champion:
Can you point out to me where you're talking about on this map?
Gordon:
Is there a mouse? Is there.. .where's the arrow? There it is. Right along
there.
Champion:
Okay, okay.
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Gordon:
Bailey:
Gordon:
Bailey:
Gordon:
Bailey:
Gordon:
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The trees basically stop right there, and so we're talking from there to
there, and there is now kind of a, the backyard of these people, and then
there is about a 20- foot area where there is no trees, it's a flat area, you
can tell it gets flooded in rains because the grass isn't growing very well.
That's the area that we've dedicated as an easement that we'll have to
grade out and make sure that we're moving the water off-site, and then, I
don't know if you see that little dotted line there, is where the 20-foot ends
and the trees basically go from there around, kind of in this area right in
here. So, obviously, we'll have to remove trees to put the road in, urn,
we'll have to remove trees to create a buildable area on the lots, but the
lots are fairly deep. We kind of estimated that there might be a 50-foot or
so, 30 to 50-foot strip, between the buildable area and the end of that 20-
foot easement that may be able to be preserved, depending on grades and
slopes and obviously, as Karin mentioned, the area does need cleaned up
some. There's some good trees and some not so attractive trees. So, you
know, our intention would be, obviously wooded lots are more valuable to
us. Our intention would be to save as many of the nice trees as we can in
that area. Urn, but of course with the road going through here, and houses
on the front of these lots, there's going to be an area that will be cleared,
and this this whole area too will remain wooded. That's wooded and that
will remain as is. That's the 6.8 acres that's left.
Steve?
Yes?
Are you ready for questions?
Yeah, 1. .. yeah, go ahead.
Urn, when you talk about affordable housing, can you talk a little bit about
the range in this development, of cost, what you're predicting?
Urn, the lots, the...I see it similar to the, to the development just to the
east, which we did also, the Whispering Meadows Part 2 and 3, and the
houses there have ranged, urn, from $150,000 up to $180,000 or $190,000,
and our townhomes, we actually haven't done townhomes there. We've
done zero-lot line duplexes, or two units side-by-side. These will be four
to six units side-by-side. So, a little more affordable yet, but those have
ran, those have ranged from $110,000 up to $150,000 in price range. So,
you know, adjusting for inflation and different things, I would guess that
our single-family lots might be in the range of$30,000 to $35,000, which
again if you look around is a very affordable lot, and the townhomes, you
know, in the $20,000 range for those lots, if you're looking at a land cost
underneath. And then just a little bit about the wetlands. Ron from MMS
may come up and address that too if you have any more technical
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questions, but there's a few slivers of wetland that go up to the north and
essentially, the storm water from the, I think it's Regal Lane and is it, urn,
Amber, yeah, Regal and Amber. The storm water from those two
developments daylights on the side end of those lots. So, of course, that
storm water has created part of those wetlands. Actually, it goes above
ground and then eventually hooks into the b1ue1ine and heads down south.
Urn, again, a low quality area, and so that's, those are two areas that will
have to be disturbed because that's where Whispering Meadows Drive
comes in. You know, that's how you get into the site. The biggest area of
wetlands is, the biggest chunk, biggest single chunk, was down on the
southeast, urn, this area right in here was a big area of wetlands, and again,
created by storm water that comes from the Meadows Part 2 and 3 that
daylights right here, and collects in this area before it follows the blueline,
which essentially goes like that and trickles around down there, and so
that's, that's the area that, urn, if we wanted to buffer around it and do an
RS-8 and do single-family lots we could, but it's not a very attractive
wetland feature at all, and what we're proposing with some ponds and
some wooded areas, we'll be much nicer.
Champion: And, do you know, I couldn't do it, but maybe you can. Can you go back
to the road part, configuration about the road?
Franklin: Which part are you talking about, Connie?
Champion: The curve that comes out of the subdivision, the road...
Franklin: There?
Champion: Yes. So, that road is corning out of your subdivision.
Gordon: Right there, yep. This is our east, this is our westerly property line right
there. And this is the westerly, or this is the easterly property line of a
subdivision called General Quarters.
Champion: Right, okay.
Gordon: Their street is built to right there right now.
Champion: Okay.
Gordon: So that dotted line is the end of their street. I think they have a fire
turnaround there, but that's the end of their street.
Champion: This road that you're to build to is a future road. Am I correct? It's not
there now, there's no plans for it?
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Gordon: Right. This road ends right here now, and so as General Quarters goes on
to Phase 2, I'm guessing, they would have to connect on to the road at this
point, which is what.. .this is the area we're talking about.
Champion: Okay.
Gordon: And it's so expensive because it crosses over the Sycamore, you know, the
south Sycamore storm water detention area so you've got to put some big
culverts in and cross over that.
Champion: So you're being asked to build from your lot line to their intersection. Is
that correct?
Gordon: Yeah. What we're being asked to do is pay for it from the end of our
property to the end of the City's property, right here. So this whole area
right there.
Champion: Oh, okay.
Gordon: And then General Quarters would be responsible for hooking onto it right
here and right here. Kind of a funny angle there, but right there, and finish
going out to Sycamore, and connect to their existing street, which is right
there.
Champion: Okay. Thank you.
Correia: So, I have a question for Karin then about that, or somebody. What are
the plans, what are General Quarters' plans for doing that road?
Franklin: Well, we have, we have a plat, a preliminary plat of their, actually - it's a
concept plan, urn, but I can't tell you exactly when that would happen. I
mean, it's a private property owner. It's...
Correia: So what happens ifthey never finish developing...I mean, do we have
situations where we...
Franklin: Well, we would have to make sure that this connection happened here, at a
minimum, but we, we have that happen all over the city, where there's the
development progresses and then it's the next one, and sometimes there's
gaps in between, urn, and we try and fill in those gaps and make sure that
we have connectivity, and often it's a struggle and it's a concern if we
don't get it in a timely way, in terms of the connection. For instance, if
this, if this part just didn't happen now, and then this proceeded, and you
built a constituency here, and you built a constituency over here that says
"don't' connect it" - we've got at least two of those right now in other
parts of town. So, we're very conscious about creating that connectivity,
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Correia:
Gordon:
Correia:
Wilburn:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Bailey:
Gordon:
Page 25
and making sure that it gets built, and really, it's a question: does the
public pay for this or does the developer pay for it?
So, the connection between General Quarters, over the greenway, and then
to their current street, who will do that? I mean, that doesn't connect.
This is already done right here.
That's done there. I'm just talking about the point of getting into there.
I thought Karin said that General Quarters would.
This. . . yeah.
General Quarters will do that?
At some point, yeah.
At some point, so. . .
Either that, or we might have to pick up that. Well, I'm just thinking that
right here, as far as their benefit, and understand, this is a concept. It's not
engineered. I mean, it's had engineering work done on it, but I don't
know how concise this configuration is right here, but ifthere's a situation
which we've got it coming from Whispering Meadows Part 4 and what
we've got is a sliver of concrete that needs to go in there, we're going to
have to make some arrangement to get that connection made, and General
Quarters would no doubt resist it, since they are functioning quite nicely
as they are.
So, we would pay for. . .
I don't know, Amy. It.. .it's something we would have to figure out.
Steve, you're unwilling to pay any portion of this? You believe it's the
City's responsibility?
I do. It, uh, as I said, I think we've done a lot, urn, that... to create a very
nice subdivision and a mix of housing and something that's, I feel, a little
nicer subdivision than just some basic single-family lots, and we've had
to, you know, we've done a lot to do that with some other agreements
we've made to do, and it's not necessarily to our benefit to do that
development, but you know, we do own a lot ofland in that area, and we
feel it's the best development for the area, but it can't be burdened with
any more costs, and it just would not be feasible. It just does not work
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Wilburn:
Gordon:
Wilburn:
Gordon:
Wilburn:
Gordon:
Wilburn:
Correia:
Gordon:
Correia:
Gordon:
Correia:
Page 26
on.. .can't get enough of the lots to make it feasible to do and we'd have to
consider going back to just the RS-8 zoning and do what's allowed.
Acknowledge that with the development going on, and without coming
this way, that there's going to be impact on the existing...
Pardon?
Do you acknowledge that there's going to be impact on the existing streets
to the north running out of this, that it's going to create some other traffic
issues that will have to be resolved by someone. In other words, you're
putting.. .
Yeah, I mean, whether it's 108 lots or 122 lots, there's going to be more
traffic generated on, you know, Whispering Prairie Drive and Whispering
Meadow Drive, and whichever way they go on Lakeside.
Right.
Just as any development that comes in, impacts the rest of the neighbors.
Okay.
So, just so I'm, so I have the numbers right. Going from the RS-8 to the
RS-12 and the numbers, you could develop with RS-8, and what you're
planning for RS-12 would be only an additional 14 units? That's what
you said?
Uh, yes, from 108 to 122, yes.
108 to 122, 14...
Yes, that would be again, we haven't finalized that plat, but we have done
some work to layout, uh, single-family lots that meet the RS-8 zoning
requirement, buffering the blueline, and limiting our impact on the
wetlands on the north ends there where Whispering Meadows comes in.
Now that's assuming we run Whispering Meadows to the west end of our
property and just dead end it. Ifwe went back to a cul-de-sac, we do lose
a couple more lots, urn, but I guess I would say cul-de-sac lots are more
valuable than non-cul-de-sac lots, and I think you'd make those two lots u
in the value of the lots remaining on the cul-de-sac. So, it wouldn't quite
be 108 if we went back to a cul-de-sac. It might be 105 or 106.
Okay. Well, I was just.. . so with an additional 14 units at seven trips a
day, that's a projected additional 98 trips.
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Gordon:
Correia:
Franklin:
Gordon:
Correia:
Gordon:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Page 27
Yeah, yeah.
So with the 108 and those numbers of trips, you don't think we need the
connection to the Sycamore, but adding the 14, that's as much of a
compelling.. .
Well, we have different numbers, so we can...1 mean, we had 20, there
were going to be 20 extra units. So I'm not sure we would need to. . . we
need to check that out.
There has not yet been a plat.
Okay.
But we've laid it out and that's what we came up with. It may differ by a
couple one way or the other, depending on cul-de-sac or no cul-de-sac,
and things like that. It's not a, I mean, we're not talking 50 versus 122.
Right. Okay.
Are you asking whether if it were developed as RS-8 whether we would
require the road to go through?
Yes.
We would require the road to go through.
To Sycamore?
Correct. The question of who's responsible for it might be different then.
I guess I would just say that the Comprehensive Plan will support RS-8 or
RS-12. The request from the developer, from Steve, was to have it go to
RS-12.
So why would the City pay for it if it were RS-8 and not RS-12?
Well, I'm not saying that we absolutely would. I'm just saying that. . .
Oh, what's the decision?
One of the, urn, the compelling arguments for the developer to pay is the
increase in density that they appreciate from the rezoning, and from the
ability to, urn, modify the wetlands there in a way that enables more
development of this land. If as you are balancing this question, the cost is
one that is balanced again, whether you have an RS-8 development, or an
RS-12 development there. I am just saying that the Comprehensive Plan
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would support RS-8, as it would RS-12, that that's not something we were
pushing to have happen. Okay?
Elliott: One of the things that the Council has been pushing for some time, and
will become more involved with is affordable housing, though it appears
to me that the Council would be more interested in doing whatever is
possible to accommodate additional affordable housing. I think there'll be
more discussion about that, as we proceed with this, but it seems to me
that the Council has indicated we're interested in developing considerably
more affordable housing, which you are attempting to do, apparently, with
this development.
Gordon: Right. Yes.
Correia: And the mixed.
Champion: Can you just repeat for me the cost of, of these houses, just a range again?
Gordon: I would, and again, there's inflation factors and timing, but.. .but based on
our experience just to the east, I would say single- family homes are going
to be in that, say $150,000 to $200,000 range, and the townhomes would
be in that $120,000 to $150,000 range. What...one thing, this was
mentioned at the Planning and Zoning and again, I don't know how much
merit it has, but the question was asked by the Planning and Zoning
Commission why don't we make General Quarters pay for half the street,
and us pay for half the street, and the comment was made that because
General Quarters is not rezoning or asking for an upzone, you can't
require them to pay for that street, while we are upzoning it. Iowa Code
gives the right with the Conditional Zoning Agreement to add that in
there.
Champion: I have one more question about the affordability. The other part of
Whispering Meadows, what was the price range in that again?
Gordon: Urn, in Parts 2 and 3, which are substantially complete now, urn, the
lowest price home was $109,000 and I believe the highest price was like
$186,000, and there was a mixture of duplexes or two units attached and
single- family.
Champion: And, but you can still in this market create that $120,000 to $150,000
price range?
Gordon: If you can, if you can attach units and have smaller lots, I think you can.
Vanderhoef: So the square footage on the, the units are basically the same as in Part 2
and 3?
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Gordon: We haven't designed these units yet specifically, but in Parts 2 and 3,
the. .. the urn duplexes ranged from about 1,100 square feet up to 1,400 or
1,500 so they were about lOO bucks a foot, final price, and then the single-
family homes were about 1,400 to, couple of them were ranches that had
finished basements, so gives you more square footage, but not as much
cost. 1,400 up to 1,800 or 1,900.
Vanderhoef: You can do basements out there and keep them dry?
Gordon: There were some lots we could, yeah. We didn't do very many, but there
was a few.
Vanderhoef: It's real tricky...
Gordon: I don't know if we can here or not, but there was a few in Parts 2 and 3
that we did, yes.
Dilkes: Ijust want to comment briefly on this upzoning issue. Urn, I don't know
what was said at the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, but
generally, and this is generally, whether we are at the zoning stage or at
the subdivision stage, the infrastructure costs that are necessary to support
a development are born by the developer. I mean, that's a consistent
position that we take. So, so... there is no mechanism to make General
Quarters pay for this road at this point. Urn, and General Quarters right
now doesn't need. I mean, they're not creating a need for the road. So, I
just.. .
Wilburn: What I was going to say is we, uh, since we don't have a Conditional
Zoning Agreement signed, uh, we will be continuing the public hearing,
correct? Okay, go ahead.
Franklin: Question of direction, given your conversation over the last few
minutes.. .because we will still be working on the Conditional Zoning
Agreement, and your concern is with affordability. Are you
contemplating that your decision-making will hinge on affordability in this
case? And if so, is there something that you anticipate you would want to
have included in a Conditional Zoning Agreement? As a basis for that
decision-making?
Elliott: It seems to me, everything we've talked about regarding affordable
housing is we want the City to be involved in whatever projects will
provide quality, affordable housing, and so it appears that this project and
what it is intending to do, would do that and therefore, I'm assuming. . .I
know that would be my way of going, that I am interested in the City
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benefiting more from t he lower cost homes, and benefiting less therefore
from the just single-family homes.
Franklin: My question is, do you want a guarantee of that?
Elliott: Of?
Franklin: Of there being a certain percentage of affordable housing in this project.
Elliott: My concern, and I don't know how others feel, but the more, the more
quality affordable housing there is, the more I'm interested in the City
bending a little.
Franklin: Understand.
Champion: And if we do decide the developer should build this road, which has been
usually our decision, that would just be passed on to the lot, price of lots,
and will raise the price of houses, so 122.. .$260,000 divided by 122, who
can add?
Correia: It's about 2,500.. .300,000 divided by 122 is about 2,500.
Champion: Ifwe decide to have the City build this road eventually, we're going to
have to build it now because there's nothing to connect to. Then I would
want some guarantee of affordability.
Correia: Well, 1...I mean, given what you're saying the price range is going to be
on what you're planning, that it seems.. .those are well below the median
price home, in Iowa City right now, for.. .isn't the median priced home, I
mean, because the City, as part of our affordable home ownership
program, built a home for about...
Franklin: The question is is whether you want that result guaranteed.
Di1kes: The question is whether you want us to include a condition in the
Conditional Zoning Agreement that provides accountability for the
affordable housing that is being offered.
Correia: Accountability to achieve this range?
O'Donnell: Well, I think he's already got a record of two projects.
Gordon: .. .what iflumber goes up to, what iflumber triples tomorrow because of,
you know, some owl or something somewhere. You know,
1.. . (laughter). . .had that happen before! Endangered species.. .it's hard to
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guarantee these will be certain prices, especially ten years into the future.
I mean, this could be a ten-year project.
Wilburn: (several talking at once) Go ahead, Regenia.
Bailey: I think I would have to think about it. I mean, weighing off the cost of this
connection, and you were talking about affordability. I have to think
about that, but certainly if we ending up paying for the road, there would
be, I would be interested in some level of guarantee for affordability.
Champion: I would not, urn, consider paying for the road without that guarantee.
Franklin: And, if I could be clear, this is not to say anything about Steve, at all, I
mean, but, God forbid, he could get hit by a truck tomorrow. The land's
sold to somebody else. So if you have in mind that you want something
accomplished by a project, then you need to memorialize it, as the
attorneys would say, to make sure that that's in fact what the outcome is at
the end.
Wilburn: 1. . . urn, not knowing the source of funds that we would use for putting in
the road, and that would be a thing for a future Council to decide, a factor
for me in considering putting the road in would be locking in some type of
a percentage guarantee of affordability. I'm glad that we have a developer
that's willing to do that, but given some of the circumstances that you've
said, I would be willing to. . .
Vanderhoef: And there may be possibilities of sharing the cost of that.
Elliott: And I think a guarantee, we aren't necess.. . Eleanor, we don't necessarily
have to talk about dollars and cents. We can talk about percentage of
median and average priced homes, because if we have them guarantee that
something has to be sold for $120,000, ifit's five years from now, that
could increase to perhaps at least $130,000, which would still be perhaps
one-third or one-half of what a median priced home would be. So, can we
deal with percentages or estimates, as opposed to strict...1 don't see how
we can guarantee dollars and cents at this point, for something that will be
built five or ten years from now.
Wilburn: That was done at the Peninsula. We put percentage in.
Elliott: And look what happened there!
Wilburn: There's a percentage.
Correia: Are you saying you want percentage or you don't want percentage?
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Dilkes: Yes, yes, there's any number of ways you could draft that.
Elliott: Good, good.
Wilburn: Whether you like the Peninsula or not, it was percentage and there is a
percentage. So, were you going to add something else, Eleanor?
Dilkes: No, I just don't want you to disclose your Ex Parte communications while
everyone's still in the room.
Wilburn: I hadn't closed the public hearing yet, so.. .um, unless there's any
questions. What I was getting at is that we are going to continue
discussing this so. . .
Gordon: I believe there's more speakers tonight, too.
Wilburn: That's the other part I was going to get to.
Champion: And.. .what, does that have any appeal to you? What we were just talking
about?
Gordon: I'd have to look at it, I mean, you know.. .as Bob said, it can't be a dollar
'cause there's no, can't predict today what will happen tomorrow and, and
uh, you know, we as a developer and a builder are going to provide what
the market demands, and if the market demands housing at a certain price
range, that we're going to provide that to them. But, so I guess 1'd have to
review what was proposed, but...
Correia: I mean, it seems like what, what makes the project attractive to me going
to consider the City bearing the cost of putting the road across its property
is hearing these price ranges, and whether we corne up with these price
points, are in that, you know, we have talked about wanting mixed
neighborhoods with different types of housing in them - what you're
accomplishing here, as well as the other natural, urn, accommodations of
the sensitive areas. Urn, so that if that were to change, those price points
were to change, then down the road, then that would have been against
sort of the "good faith" ifit wasn't somehow inserted into an agreement.
Certainly, there would be the opportunity if the, if you decided for
whatever reason to increase the cost or whatever, change the, then those
funds to the City would be paid back.
Gordon: Again, I'd have to...I mean, you know, in develop this and you wanted to
buy a lot out there say from me, you know, and wanted to build a certain
house, you know, it's not fair for me or you to dictate, 'Well, gee, you
can't build that house because I've got a restriction that it can only be this
valuable and the house you want to build is more valuable than that.' So,
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Correia:
Gordon:
Wilburn:
Gordon:
Pugh:
Franklin:
Pugh:
Franklin:
Pugh:
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again, it's going to, you know, I can't envision today what sort of
agreement would work in that regards. Urn, but by the very nature of the
subdivision and the design of it, you know, with smaller lots and with
townhome style, that naturally leads to less expensive units, then a
subdivision that has 10,000 or 12,000 square foot lots. I mean, it's just. ..
Right.
. . . the nature of economics that will lead to that. And it fits in with the
area. I mean, you know, this is not an area of large lots and expensive
homes. It fits in well with what's already there.
Urn, I've allowed extended time beyond the five minutes because you're
the developer, but for the remainder of folks who would like to speak to
public hearing, ask you to limit your comments to five minutes or less.
Thank you.
Thanks!
Good evening, my name is Mike Pugh and I'm with Riley and Riley and I
represent Mr. Gordon and his group, the developers of this project. Karin,
if I could get you to. . . can you go back to that one slide that shows
Lakeside Drive and. . .
Sure.
Have you shown Jeff how to do that?
(laughter) No!
I'm just going to talk, urn, real briefly, because we've been on this subject
for a while, but I want to first thank the City staff. I've been working with
Steve on this project for some time and understand that there's been a
multitude of issues that have been discussed with open areas and sensitive
areas and access and so on, and the City staff has worked awfully hard on
this. I do want to thank them for that. Urn, the issue I want to talk about, I
guess, and maybe just have you look at it a little bit different way is this
issue about paying for this road across this parcel 2-A or this greenway
area. Urn, which is really in the Conditional Zoning Agreement as the
first item on your agenda. We've combined the two. Urn, the reason that
the City staff has given, urn, for the need really, for the Conditional
Zoning Agreement and for Steve, Mr. Gordon's group, to pay for the
100% of the cost is to provide secondary access, but that's really not,
that's really not the issue. Urn, and secondary access really isn't the issue,
because when he first presented this plan, he initially had a cul-de-sac at
the end of that Whispering Meadows Drive, and even without the cul-de-
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sac, urn, there are three access points into this subdivision already for 122,
proposed 122 lot subdivision. So, urn, by changing that cul-de-sac and
providing for another access point, he has provided actually now four
access points for this subdivision, which meets really any type of City
standard. Urn, Ms. Dilkes is correct that even on a subdivision or any
rezoning, the developer has to install public improvements, sometimes off-
site in order to serve that particular subdivision. Our point is that the
extension of that roadway and paying for 100% of that cost just because
it's on public property is not necessary to serve our subdivision. Urn,
because we are already providing three access points, and this is going to
be a fourth access point. It was...
Vanderhoef: Would you show me that? I'm only seeing three.
Pugh: Well, there'd be one here. ..there's one here.
Vanderhoef: But that's not to the outside though.
Pugh: Well, it would be an access point at some point into the subdivision.
There's one here right now, and there's one here at Indigo Drive, and then
there's one down here at the bottom. So right now, it was originally
designed with these three. We've accommodated it now to provide this, to
provide this fourth one. And these two streets are already built, so there's,
there'd already be two access points already right here. And then this
would extend down, so there's actually, there actually would be four
access points into this, into the subdivision. The.. .one of the issues, and
Ms. Correia brought this up, is, is the General Quarters subdivision. I
mean, there is a possibility that even if that road is constructed across that
greenway, regardless of who pays for it, that that could sit as a dead-end
for. . . for years and years to come. I also happen to represent the General
Quarters developer, and he has been told that he is not going to be allowed
to develop anywhere south of that, of his existing Part 1, until Sycamore
Street is improved, and there's really no timetable on that. Urn, I know
he's not very happy with having Whispering Meadows Drive now be a
collector street, because it really, it really poses some challenges to the
size of his lots that he had planned in there, but the status of that property
south of Part 1 is, there was a concept plan that was looked at. My client
actually bought the property after it was platted, but it hasn't been
preliminary platted, so that would go through the preliminary plat stage,
but there is no plan. It depends on how many lots sell in that first phase of
General Quarters, and like I said, he's been told that he's not going to be
allowed to subdivide that south of there until Sycamore Street is improved,
because he would have to come out onto Sycamore Street at that time. So,
even regardless of who pays for that portion across the greenway, that
could be a dead-end for years and years to come, and there's no guarantee,
one, that portion is going to be extended out onto Sycamore Street. Uh,
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Wilburn:
Pugh:
Wilburn:
Amelon:
Page 35
the real issue, I guess, is, is whether or not Saddlebrook Meadows the
developer pays for 100% of the cost of, of this street across this parcel 2-
A, and as Mr. Gordon indicated, I mean, it is kind of unbelievable, but the
cost is somewhere between $260,000 and $300,000 because of some of
the challenges that Mr. Gordon mentioned. Urn, under normal
circumstances, if this was, ifparce12-A was owned by private citizens,
under normal circumstances, urn, even without a subdivision or a
rezoning, could be through a special assessment, the City would charge
the private land owners, urn, each on each side of the road, the cost of
constructing that street there, and under some circumstances, they would
make them pay only 50% ofthat, under the theory that it's a collector
street, and that with collector streets there's a certain benefit to the entire
neighborhood or to the community as a whole, rather than to that
particular property owner, and that's why this illustration, I think, is so
important, is because this diagram represents really the traffic flow with
Sycamore Street, Lakeside Drive, etc. Well, this is a community or
neighborhood issue, urn, that.. .that if we do provide an access point here,
is going to be a benefit to this entire neighborhood down there, and so it
really should be borne by a greater group than just these 122 lot owners.
You're going to have to wind your comments up.
Urn, and we don't think really that policy should change this. The City
owns that piece of property. Urn, the fact that this is a collector street,
again, is.. .it's, that is inconsistent with making one developer pay for that
entire cost. We think that really without the rezoning, and without the
provisions of the CZA, which call for the City to require reasonable
standards, urn, this would not even be an issue, and I guess our point is
that this is not a reasonable request. The only reason we're being required
to pay 100% of it is because it's public property and not private, and we'd
ask that the City pay their fair and equitable share, ofthat cost. So, thank
you.
Thank you for your comments. Would anyone else care to address the
Council at public hearing?
Hi, I'm Ron Amelon with MMS Consultants and I just wanted to address
one of the questions, one of the Council Members had regarding the
wetland impacts. There is going to be 1.5 acres of wetland impacts, and in
the mitigation plan, we're going to create 2.82 acres of wetlands. The
majority of the wetlands out there are relatively low quality. They're
formed by the storm sewer outlet, the runoff from the storm sewer pipes
that outlet out there. The majority of them are fairly narrow, linear
wetlands. Just kind of form a drainage way from the storm sewer outlet
down to the south Sycamore drainage way. So, if you have any other
questions about the wetlands, I'd be happy to answer those.
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O'Donnell: Thank you.
Vanderhoef: Thank you.
Wilburn: Thank you. Anyone else care to address the Council at this public
hearing? The Council.. . any Council Members who have any Ex Parte
communications to disclose at this time, please do so.
Elliott: Yes, I talked to Terry Smith. I noticed that he was one oftwo people who
voted against it on the P&Z, and I wanted to know and understand the
reasons and the basis for his non-support.
Wilburn: Okay, thank you.
Elliott: And I received that.
Vanderhoef: And I spoke with Karin Franklin, urn, with questions that she brought
answers to tonight. So we were apprised of the answers.
Wilburn: I'll entertain a motion to continue the public hearing.
Bailey: So moved.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Karr: Until?
Wilburn: Until.. . (several talking at once). Does that work?
Bailey: Is that our next meeting, the 10th of July?
Correia: .. . any more questions right now?
Wilburn: Uh, why don't.. .go ahead.
Correia: Ijust have a question about the park, the open space. Urn, is that, if the
Parks and Rec Commission don't want it, is that, I mean, that's their
recommendation?
Franklin: Yes, that's their recommendation to you. Yeah, you make the decision.
Correia: Okay, okay, because my, I have an idea of what it costs to clean up this
site. I mean, with other neighborhood open space, urn, when we receive
open space and we put a park or we create a bike trail, I mean, that costs
money to do that on that open space. Is that right? I mean, we receive the
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land, and then we put a park on it, or we build a bike trail and then that
costs.. .so, it seems, I mean, from reading the minutes of the Planning and
Zoning Commission, I think there were some folks that felt like this would
be a nice addition, given that, you know, we had some input in our packet
from folks who, you know, want to see the woodlands as much remain. I,
it seems to me like something to consider.
Wilburn: As Karin pointed out, that the Council does make the final decision on
that. There are other reasons, not all the dedicated land something's
immediately done with. That's an issue that Parks and Rec has brought up
with the Council in the past because we haven't provided staff to take care
to maintain that property, and that's been a, there have been occasions
when the Parks and Rec Commission has recommended fees because of
not being able to maintain certain properties.
Vanderhoef: I understand there's a lot of undergrowth and diseased or poor quality
trees that need to come out of there, so it's costly.
Wilburn: I'm not...I wasn't saying it's a reason not to do it. I was throwing that out
there.
Franklin: Were you asking for a cost, Amy?
Correia: No, no, no. I was just trying, I mean, there's not no cost when we get
other land dedicated for open space. . .
Franklin: Right.
Correia: . . . when we do something to it - put in a trail or a park or. . . there can be
significant cost. Will that then be part of the Conditional Zoning, is this
neighborhood space dedication?
Franklin: The neighborhood, actually the neighborhood open space issue can be
resolved through the platting process.
Correia: Okay.
Franklin: Urn, so, really the only thing that you all need to figure out before the
zoning can go forward is the question of the road. That is a condition of
the RS-8 to RS-12 zoning, as it is now presented to you. Urn, as the plat
would be, the preliminary plat would be presented to you on the third
reading, it shows that the, urn, Outlot A would be private open space, and
so you can have more discussions before that finally comes to you at your
second meeting in July, or well, it might be August, depending on what
you do.
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Correia:
Wilburn:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Franklin:
Correia:
Gordon:
Correia:
Wilburn:
Gordon:
Correia:
Gordon:
Correia:
Gordon:
Correia:
Wilburn:
Dilkes:
Page 38
I'm sorry. I have one additional question.
Okay.
If.. .if we weren't requiring the collector street and connecting...
Uh-huh.
.. . and there was, the design, platting, whatever then reverted back to a cul-
de-sac.. .
Uh-huh.
. . .is that what you would do, Steve?
Yeah, probably.
That would. . .
Yes, probably was the answer. You'll have to approach.. .please approach
the microphone, Steve, to. . . please approach the microphone.
If it wasn't a collector, urn, and, but everything else was the same, urn, I
mean, I think a cul-de-sac for the neighborhood would be nicer for that
neighborhood, but running it to our west property line and dead-ending it
there, I would be comfortable either way, but... the cul-de-sac was a nice,
when it was, that plat looked very nice and those lots were real nice back
there.
And then, would that decrease the number of total homes?
I think it reduced it by two lots, just on that street, I mean, it measured
across that street.
I mean, it would go from 122 to 120?
Yes.
That would reduce them. Okay.
There's a motion on the floor to, urn, continue the public hearing to July
10th. It was moved by Bailey, somebody.. . seconded by Vanderhoef.
Discussion?
And this is both items, correct?
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Wilburn: Uh, yes. Urn, all those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign. Carries 7-0.
1'11 entertain a motion to, uh, give first consideration on both.
Bailey: Move first consideration.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion? All those in
favor signify by saying aye. Opposed same sign. Carries 7-0.
b. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Wilburn:
Just for the benefit of the public, some of the questions that you heard
from Council, extensive questions on this, these two items are a result that
usually we would handle these at, in the past we've handled those at a
work session, because of a Supreme Court ruling recommendation from
our Counsel, in terms of rezoning, these types of discussions have to occur
in front ofthe public, so the public, the entire public, has access to the
conversations. Urn, request for a break. Uh, let's come back in ten
minutes. (BREAK)
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~ p~~
ITEM 9 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 10 OF THE
CITY CODE, ENTITLED "USE OF PUBLIC WAYS AND
PROPERTY," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED "COMMERCIAL USE OF
SIDEWALKS," SECTION 4, ENTITLED "TEMPORARY USE OF
SIDEWALK PERMITS" TO INCREASE THE DURATION OF THE
TEMPORARY SIDEWALK PERMITS FROM THREE (3) DAYS
TO FOUR (4) DAYS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Bailey: Move first consideration.
V anderhoef: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion?
Correia: This allows for. . .
Champion: Oh, no.. .go ahead.
Correia: So this allows for additional days oflike sidewalk sales. That's...
Champion: Yes. We have time to get this passed before... we'll have to expedite it the
next meeting.
Helling: If you expedite at the next meeting, you can.
Wilburn: Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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#10 Page 41
ITEM 10 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED
"POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED
"MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES," BY ADDING A NEW SECTION
9, ENTITLED "AMATEUR FIGHTING AND BOXING" TO
PROHIBIT AMATEUR FIGHTING AND BOXING AT
ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE LICENSED TO SERVE
ALCOHOL. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Bailey: Move first consideration.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion? Anyone from
the public care to address the Council on this item?
Bailey: I do want to say that this has been painted as a ban, and it's not a ban. It
can still occur within the City limits and allow amateur fighters to practice
their sport, it just wouldn't allow them to practice their sport in alcohol
venues.
Wilburn: And.. . and professional amateur fighting could happen at a place with a
liquor license because the State regulates professional (several talking)
professional fighters. Anyone from the public? Please just state your
name for the record, and limit your comments to five minutes or less.
Poch: Urn, Mayor Wilburn, my name is Bill Poch, and Council, and I might add
that I'm not a resident ofIowa City, that I'm a resident of Riverside, Iowa.
Some of you may know Riverside as the "future birthplace of Captain
James T. Kirk."
Elliott: Way to go! (laughter)
Poch: My wife and I, Diane, are actually here, we hope, to show support to the
Iowa City Council on this matter of prohibiting boxing and fighting in
establishments that serve, licensed establishments that serve alcohol. Urn,
and one of, the reason why I'm here is because I, uh, just recently found
out this past Saturday night that I had a younger son that is an adult, young
man, took part in this, and he did it obviously without our knowledge and
he's been avoiding his mom and dad for the last several days because we
understand.. .when I found out about this Saturday night from another
father in Riverside who's son also participated, and this father also was
opposed to his son participating in this event, urn. Neither Diane nor I
were very happy about it, and like I said, Mike has been avoiding us, but
urn, we... we, and I might add that if I were 21 or 22 or 23, I might also
take part in this. I'm not going to lie to you. As a young man, it's kind of
a macho, tough thing and you're there with all your friends and
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Correia:
Poch:
Correia:
Poch:
Correia:
Poch:
Poch:
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everybody's pumped up, and I'm going really on the presumption that a
lot of these, even though they say it hasn't, it's not the case that a lot of
them have had, consumed alcoholic beverages prior to this, and they've
got a lot of their friends there and they're being taped and filmed, and the
one father that told me about this said that the fight didn't look good on
Mike's behalf and he really took a, I don't want to say a beating, but he
was, looked to take the short end, but yet he won because he had a large
cheering group there, and so he won, and I'm not sure I'd exactly call that
a win, but urn, as a, as an adult father and hopefully showing a little
leadership, I'm.. . and my wife also, we're totally opposed to this, this type
of an event, and uh, we feel it is not a question of, uh, will there be a
severe injury take place. It's just a question of when will there be an
injury take place, and I think that the Council, the Iowa City Council, is
doing the right thing by addressing this, and we hope that you go ahead
and find the fact that you're not going to let it continue, and I don't know.
Did I miss anything? (unable to hear person in audience) Urn, I don't
know that, see that there'd be any reason for you folks to ask me any
questions, but if you did have anything, I'd be happy to.. . answer.
I have a question. Does your son, or your son's friend, train? Is he in
martial arts, or does he train...
I think all those young men train in their mind. No, they're...
So my question is, he doesn't take karate or any kind of kick boxing, or he
doesn't.. .
No.
Okay.
Yeah, no, and I think again, that's the, that's another part of the problem.
I mean, these are all. They're all young individuals that are urged on by
their friends, or they go up there and they see somebody else and all the
hoopla that they get, and the attention and the adulation that they get, and
so, you know, for a moment there, there's a moment of glory and they,
they get tapes made of themselves and so they can all take it home, or take
it to their group of friends and show it, and you know, it's a.. .it's
something being cool. And, but I, we just.. .when I say I, and I'd like to
hope that we're not, I'm not only representing myself and my wife, but
I'm representing other parents throughout the area that may not be able to,
you know, come here or have the time or the capability of coming here, or
they've got other issues, but uh, that other parents are feeling the same
thing that we're feeling, that you know, it's a move, a good move to do.
The only thing I would say. . .
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Wilburn:
Poch:
Poch:
Wilburn:
Janda:
Page 43
I'm sorry. Could you go ahead and state your name too.
I'm sorry. My name is Diane Poch, that I understand that young men want
to do this sport. We're just saying, in the presence of alcohol, it's not a
good idea. That ifthere are profess.. .ifthere are young men out there that
want to pursue that, that's great, but in an atmosphere of where there's
alcohol, I think we're.. .our consideration is that you're just asking for
problems, and injuries, that, you know, could be avoided.
Thank you.
Thank you for your comments. Would anyone else care to address the
Council on this issue? Please state your name, limit your comments to
five minutes or less.
My name is Chris Janda, and I stand before you as a resident ofIowa City,
a student, and also an amateur fighter. Urn, basically, I'm the person that
invited Monte and everybody together. I came up with the idea of "fight
night" and everything like that. The reason behind this, is because I do
train. I train in Iowa City. I train in Davenport. I train in Cedar Rapids.
Train all over the place. Urn, reason for me coming up to Monte and
saying, 'Hey,' and Joe, and George and all them, and saying, 'Hey, we
need something like this in this town, because there's no other place for
me to go.' Urn, I've had a bunch of fighter friends that said to me, 'You
know, well, you know, I've got this fight coming up,' blah, blah, blah, and
all of a sudden, barn, they get just pummeled by the guy, because they
haven't, you know, they get the jitters, you know. They haven't gone up
there and had this little show before that and everything like that, and
they've actually gotten physically hurt pretty bad, and urn, I know Monte
personally, you know, and he's one of the few guys that I know that
actually care about the fighters, you know, I mean, a lot of times he'll call
me and ask me, you know, how was the fight and everything like that, and
you know, I mean, that was kind of one of the reasons I wanted
specifically him doing it. Urn, another thing is, before fight night at
Union, we were doing things at the Field House, University Field House.
Just a bunch of guys getting together and training and all of a sudden
sparing in front ofa bunch of people. We also were doing it in basements,
as well. Urn, there, there was no regulations. It was just a bunch of kids,
you know. There was no other, like I would say parents. There was adults
- we're all adults, but there was no parents there, no medical staff or
anything like that, and I've seen a lot worse that has happened to people.
You know, and that doesn't get reported at all either, because obviously
nobody says anything about that, and that's what scared me the most, and
so, by me doing this, I brought it all together and I brought it to an
organization where they actually knew what they were doing. We're
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wearing bigger gloves, helmet - not helmets, but headgear, you know, and
everything like that, and uh, it's a lot more safer for us, from the fighting
community and from our standpoint. Um, basically, you know, it seems
like everybody, you know, since mixed martial arts is a newer sport, you
know, a lot of people don't understand it. Everybody just thinks it's a
bunch of guys just going out there and just throwing punches and beating
the heck out of each other. It's not, you know, I mean, it looks from the
outside, yes, it looks very brutal and everything like that because there's
blood and there's, you know, all that stuff, but when I go into the fights
and everything like that, and I train, I'm going in there and I'm looking,
you know.. . you know, it's real surgical almost, because I've got to go in
there and analyze what the other person is doing, just like in football. You
know, or any other sport. Urn, it just seems like a lot of people just don't
understand it. You know, it just seems that people look down on us for
what we do, and it kind of, it almost hurts me to say that because it, it's
what I do. It's what I want to do. I'm also a student at the University of
Iowa, you know, I'm also a Biochemistry Major, as well. I'm not just
some dumb kid, you know, coming out here, beating the heck out of each
other, you know, and uh, my parents actually fully support me too, as well,
in this, and I've seen injuries. You know, amongst myself and everything
like that, and uh, it's one of those things where with Monte, you know, I
wouldn't say him regulating it, but putting rules aside where there's no
elbows to the face or knees to the face or anything like that. It protects us
a lot more. Because, I mean, when I was doing it before, anything really
went. You know, it was elbows to the face, people getting cut up, you
know, real bad and you know, we would just kind oflet it go, because you
know, tough kids, right? But uh, I just wanted to come in here and say,
you know, without this establishment, you know, and you guys are saying
with the liquor and everything like that, I understand where you guys are
coming from with that, as well, but without that, you know, the venue for
it, it just goes away, because obviously we come to the Union and we do it
for free. You know, we don't get charged from them. You know, they
allow us to use their space and everything for free because we take the
cover to the door and they take their profits elsewhere. And without that,
you know, we'd have to charge people a lot more money to do that, and
everything like that, and that basically just kills the show. I mean, and
there's nothing else left with that, and by taking that away, I mean, I've
been to other places without Monte's sponsorship and everything like that,
and done other places and they let everything go, and it really seems, it
almost scares me to say, you know, without this area right here, it's going
to hurt us, it really is. So, that's why I was just asking you guys to
reconsider, and actually see what we do and research the actual mixed
martial arts. Do you guys, have you guys researched the rules and
everything like that? You've seen it. Do you guys know all the rules and
everything like that?
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Wilburn: I don't, but why don't you finish your comments, because I do have a
question.
Janda: Okay, yeah, well, I'm pretty much done then.
Wilburn: Okay, thank you for corning down this evening. How do you differentiate
the necessity for it to occur where alcohol occurs, your type of mixed
martial arts, as opposed to, for example, boxing and other amateur fighting
opportunities in the area that some of the, well, we have some Olympic
caliber folks here in the community, a couple of women.
Janda: Yes, Katie was actually, sorry, Emily was actually here earlier. She
actually went home. I actually trained with her for a little bit at Gold's
Gym as well. We were talking about that, and it's one of those things, like
you said, you know, how would you do it without alcohol and everything
like that, and I understand where you guys are corning from that, as well,
but like I said, without the alcohol and everything, that the bar's going to
have to start charging them to bring the ring in, and then it's just a lot
more expensive and so there won't be any show. It would really kill it,
because.. .
Wilburn: But. . .my point was, they train for, urn, their fighting and they travel and
participate in competitions, and so for whatever reason they're able to do
here in the community, not done at a. . .
J anda: Yeah, I see what you're saying. Okay, well, basically what I'm thinking,
mixed martial arts is such a new sport. We really haven't had that
established where city to city and everything like that there's a lot of bouts
and everything like that. It hasn't been really established. I mean, it has
been on pay-for-view and everything, and the pros have, but at the
amateur level, there's.. .the amateur level, there really hasn't been much,
and the person that's been starting it is Monte, and you know, he did it at
Davenport. He did it at, you know, Cedar Rapids and Burlington, and
that's really the only places around. You know, other than that, there
really isn't other places to go.
Wilburn: Okay.
Elliott: Quick question. Is your name pronounced Yanda or Janda?
Janda: Janda.
Elliott: Janda, thank you.
Vanderhoef: Okay, and I have a question too. Uh, I'm aware that the University
teaches, or has classes, available to students for martial arts and so forth.
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Janda: Yes.
Vanderhoef: Do they run any kind of competition?
Janda: No. They do not.
Vanderhoef: Has there ever been any proposal for, uh, club sport through the
University?
Janda: Urn, I don't believe so. I actually tried to do a, urn, my buddy actually
runs the University Radio show, and I just wanted to talk about the U of C
and talk about that stuff, and since everything that's going on right now,
they're like no, we're not touching it right now, because they're kind of
scared. Just because like everybody else is seeing that they're scared of
the consequences and everything, but it, it's one of those things, it's going
to be here, you know, whether or not, say five, six years from now or such.
It's still going to start coming up, because it's a new, up and growing
sport, and just because it hasn't been established like boxing, you know.
In went up to them and said, 'Let's do a boxing thing,' you know, they'd
probably be like, 'Okay great,' because it's been established for, you
know, hundreds of years or whatever.
Vanderhoef: Well, I remember when University only had clubs for, in soccer and those
kinds of activities, because it was a growing sport at that time.
Janda: Exactly! Exactly!
Vanderhoef: You know, it's big and with supervision and training, uh, that might be
something to. . .
Janda: Exactly, and that'd be great, and see, I wish that would happen, and with
the controversy that's going on, you know, here, it kind of scares
everybody away from that. See, it's not just affecting me. It's affecting
everybody else, you know, that controversy there. Because they look at it
as just a blood sport, that's what they look at it as, and it's not! It really
isn't. I mean, there's a lot of technique and there's a lot of training that
goes into it. You know, like their kid over here. I don't know what he
did, ifhe did boxing or mixed martial arts, or whatnot, but, you know,
there's definitely different styles you can do, you know, and the way I
came in to doing mixed martial arts is actually because I used to play
football up in college, up in Iowa Central and Fort Dodge, and my buddy
goes, 'Hey, man, you got to check this out! It's so fun, you know, we'll
get in good shape, you know, it's a great workout,' and it's a great
competition, you know, and it was! It was real fun. I loved it, you know,
and you know, you don't see me going out and you know picking fights
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on the street and everything like that. It actually humbles you more. It
keeps your mouth shut, because it's like, you know, when you know that
you're a tough guy or something like that, you don't need to go run your
mouth, you know. That's what a lot of the fighters are kind of quiet guys,
and I know a lot of them, and they're just, you know, obviously they talk
the hype 'cause they got to, and the press and everything like that, and like
the pros and everything, but if you ever meet a fighter, you know, most of
the time they're going to be hugging each other after the fights. I mean, I
had a fight for Monte down in Riverside Casino and uh, that was an
amateur fight there, and the guy that actually beat me is actually now one
of my good friends. One of my really good friends now, and without that,
I wouldn't have known the kid, and you know, and obviously you know
he won and beat me up a little bit, but you know, it was great. I hugged
him afterwards, and you know, we shook hands and he was a great kid
and, it seems like people think that they're coming in with a lot of hatred,
and I've been to every single fight night. I think I missed one, and I've
seen dozens and dozens of kids hugging afterwards, 'Man, you did a great
job!' 'Oh, man, you're a tough guy!' You know? 'Oh, man, I'd love to
train with you,' or 'I'd love to learn how you did that,' or, you know,
'What do you do for running?' 'How are you getting exercise?' And it's
just one of those things where, you know, it opens up new doors for you,
and that's why I wanted to do it here. Because it has opened up a bunch of
doors for people. I've had so many people come up to me, 'Oh, you train
at Gold's,' or 'You work at Gold's,' 'You can train me in boxing?' Sure,
yeah, and they love it, you know, and it really gets a little.. .it's new! And
so people are like, 'Oh, this is great!' You know, and good workout and
everything, and so, I mean, it's created a lot of hype throughout the
college kids too, so. . .
Wilburn: Thanks for your comments. Would anyone else care to address the
Council on this item?
Cox: Hi, Monte Cox, back again, the promoter of the event. You guys get my
email?
Champion: Yes.
Cox: From Ireland. I just got back last night. Urn, I feel bad for what happened
to these guy's son. I don't know yet what he did, whether it was boxing or
mixed martial arts or not. I mean, we're going to have a loser in almost
every event, and we're going to have a winner. Urn, the reason that we
put these fights on at this lower level is to try to find out what level the
guys are at. In the beginning when you're all "0" and "0" you just don't
know, and so rather than send them off somewhere else to Cedar Rapids or
Des Moines, and not know whether they're ready or not, we kind oftest
them out in these smaller events. The events that we're doing at the
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Union, we've taken so many rules out. Amateur mixed martial arts,
you're allowed to knee to the head. We take that out. You're allowed to
kick to the head. We take it out. You're allowed to use elbows, both
standing and on the ground. We take them out. You know, all those
striking, we're doing it for a reason, you know, so that people aren't
getting hurt, urn, and we try to, we try to make sure that they're ready for
this, you know, before just throwing them in with the full rules. You
know, we shorten the time limits. We put a professional referee in there to
protect them. Joe Jordan's a world-class fighter, fought on pay-per-view,
and ref'd hundreds and hundreds of fights. We bring him here to ref the
fight, to try to make sure that as soon as it starts to turn bad and it looks
like someone's not protecting themselves, we stop the fight. You know,
we're a business. We're trying to provide entertainment. That's where
the money comes from, but we're also trying to develop fighters. Urn, I'm
also one of the bigger managers in the country and I have found fighters
out of small shows like this. I have three of them that are making over
$100,000 a fight now that I discovered in these shows. So they do go on
from this to become something - not all of them! Urn, I guess the thing
with the alcohol, as I tried to point out in my email, was it's the financial
part of the show's success. Ifwe take this show and take it off to a hall
somewhere, with no alcohol, we're going to have to pay rent and such on
the hall, and we're not making that much. No one's getting rich here, you
know, and if all of a sudden we have to pay $1,000 to rent a hall, it's not a
business anymore. We can't do it. Urn, the Union lets us come in. They
sell alcohol to the fans. Fans, they drink when they watch sports, you
know? Sports bar, you know. I mean, that's part of sports, and I know
you don't do it at the Iowa football games, but I've been to a couple, and
there seems to be some going on outside, but you know, I mean, this is the
way it is. And if you take it away from them, that's fine. I mean, there's
tons of cities. I can move on. I was trying, I'm just trying to provide
something here for the people who train, and the people who want to do it.
And, uh, we've tried to do some other things to make it equal. We started
saying, uh, we ask them questions to see if they train. Before you can do
mixed martial arts, we ask them a couple questions. How do you get out
of triangle choke? Things like that. If they don't understand what we're
talking about, we pass on them. The last show that we did here, urn,
we've done twelve now, uh, we turned down at least eight people that
didn't know what they were doing, or obviously had been drinking and
were trying to sign up, saying they hadn't. Urn, we would not be opposed
to doing a breathalyzer, urn, bringing even an officer down to, to do that,
to catch anyone who's lying. We're, you know, not everything's perfect,
but we're trying. We ask them beforehand if they've been drinking. We
don't want them to fight if they're drinking, uh, we make sure that they're
training to do MMA. If they don't train, we have them do boxing, which
we use big 16 ounce gloves and headgear, and it's actually kickboxing,
and shin guards and, I mean, my gosh! If you get hurt doing that, you
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know, there's a problem. You're covered up completely, but that's what
we do, and I guess I don't understand...I understand that the reason for
considering you guys ruling on this stuff is because the potential for
problems. We've had twelve shows. There are not fights spilling out onto
the streets. It's not happening. It hasn't happened ever in twelve shows.
We're not having anything more inside the bar than they have on any
normal Saturday night. The police chief even said that. There's no
problems with the event. The event is working. Urn, if, if after twelve
shows and 90-some fights we have one group of parents who had a bad
experience. We're trying to limit that, but you know, I mean, I guess I
don't know what else we could do to try to make it safer, and to make it
work any better than it's already working. So, I'd love to take some
questions.
Wilburn: Thanks for your comments.
Cox: Okay.
Wilburn: Would anyone else care to address the Council on this issue?
Klinefelter: Hi, my name is Katy Klinefelter. I don't know, some of you may have
heard of me. I train out of Gold's Gym in Coralville. I box. Ijust came
back from Nationals a week ago. Urn, competed in that. I have been to
almost every fight night that I could go to. It is a great, like, I've been
waiting since I started boxing for them to have fights in a bar in Iowa City.
It is so much fun, and it is, from everything I've seen, it's completely safe.
There haven't been any fights spilling out. They're fighting for boxing
with 16-ounce gloves, which if you know anything about boxing, those are
big pillows. Super heavy weights on TV use 8-ounce gloves, so that's
double, and these people do not hit nearly half as hard, so they are taking
safety precautions. I've never seen a fight there that's gone to far. The
referee stops it quickly enough if the fighters are mismatched. I've never
seen anything go on too long where someone got hurt, because of
negligence, ever. Another thing that I want you to consider that I don't
know that's been mentioned, is that we've had a couple amateur boxing
shows in Iowa City. Now, if you guys make it illegal for us to have a
boxing show in an establishment that serves alcohol, then we'll never be
able to have boxing shows, one of our boxing shows - a legitimate U.S.A.
Boxing sanctioned event. Emily and I fought, my sister Emily and I
fought in one over spring break, and it went very smoothly, but that's
saying that we would never be able to do that again. So, I would just like
you to take that into consideration, as well. And if you guys have any
questions, I'd be happy to answer.
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Wilburn: Thank you for coming down. Many of the places, other places where you
fight, and you are quite good, urn, do you know, are those states where the
state regulates amateur fighting, as well?
Klinefelter: I do not know. I would assume it's the same. It's generally pretty much
the same across the board.
Wilburn: Well, uh, I'm originally from the State of Illinois, and I believe they
regulate amateur. In Iowa, just so you're aware, Iowa does, the State does
not regulate amateur, and that's where, for me personally just so that you
know, it's a question - it's very nice that the gentleman's willing to try
and do breathalyzer and things like that, but that's getting into regulating,
and from my point of view, if it's going to happen it should be regulated,
and I don't feel, and from the public that I've heard from, there's not an
interest in the City taking on that liability. Just so that you're aware of
where I'm coming from. Okay. Thanks for your comments though.
Anyone else have a question.. .okay thanks for your comments.
Jordan: My name is Joe Jordan, and I'm the gentleman who referees all the bouts
at the Union. Urn, just to, just to back up what Monte said earlier, urn, it is
my job and my responsibility to keep the fighters safe. I, uh, I now have
48 professional fights, urn. I've fought many world champions. I'm not
fortunate enough to be one myself, but I've been in there with the best.
Been on pay-per-view a couple of times, you know, fought all over the
country. Urn, this business is not set up for mismatches. We don't want
anybody to get hurt. Urn, I spoke to a few of you last time I was here, and
we take a great deal of effort to make sure the matches are competitive.
The only thing that we can offer these people that come and sign up and
fight at my show, or at Monte's show, is a good time and a good
experience. Ifwe match these people up where there's, you know, it's a
lopsided bout and someone gets hurt, someone gets beat up, uh, then they
don't come back. They're not getting paid, they're not making money to
do this, so, you know, the best that we can hope for is they have a good
time. So it only makes sense if we, if we keep it matched up evenly. It's
more entertaining for the crowd, uh, you know. I've been to many pro
shows where, where the bouts were not set up correctly and you'd have a
30-second fight. I mean, we, I don't know how many of you know who
Mike Tyson is, but I can remember spending $30 and $40 on a pay-per-
view to watch a one-minute fight, you know, and no one enjoys that, and
so when we do the match making, we try and set up as evenly as possible.
Now, I don't know these people here. It's the first time I've ever seen
them, and it's unfortunate that their son did lose. Someone has to lose in a
sporting competition. Urn, when people come and sign up, urn, they have
to, they have to convince myself that they have some type of martial arts
training, and wrestling, believe it or not, is one of the most dominant
forms of martial arts when you're talking about mixed martial arts
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Wilburn:
Jordan:
Correia:
Jordan:
Correia:
Jordan:
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fighting. Having the ability to take your opponent down and keep him
down, which that's what wrestlers do, gives you a huge advantage in this
sport. So, I'm not sure.. .did your son wrestle? No. He did wrestle.
I'm sorry.. .can you keep your...
Okay, but he, the father did say her son wrestled. That is a martial arts. I
know it's part of our schools, a lot of people don't realize it, but that's as
much of a martial arts as karate or tae kwon do, so. . .
So you're saying that your son wrestled as a junior high student, so now
through high school or anything?
Yeah, well, that is martial arts training.
I was just confirming.
And, so...I would imagine when he came up and we asked him, you
know, what kind of experience have you had, have you had any martial
arts training, I'm sure he told one of us, yes, he did wrestle. We asked
him.. .I'mjust saying ifhe was here now and he was signing up, I would
ask him some questions to make sure. I wrestle in Ohio, have a very
extensive wrestling background, amateur boxer - I've covered the whole
deal in my career. Urn, so we do make an effort to make sure that they've
had some type of training, and it looks like he did have mixed, or had
martial arts training before we put him in there. Monte has always been
open to, uh, to uh, you know, whatever rules, take whatever precautions
that you see fit. You know, he and I are open to any change that needs to
be done. We already run the safest show in Iowa. You know, our rules
are very soft compared to what everyone else is doing in the state, so I
think that if I went beyond what we need to do, urn, if the Council feels
that we need to take away certain things, or add a breathalyzer or what not,
then I know I don't, and I'm sure Monte doesn't oppose that, either. Urn,
you know, I just, you know, I'm part of this sport so obviously I'm for it,
and I'd hate to see the people here lose out on an opportunity to participate
in such a great sport. Urn, a lot of our great wrestlers, our collegiate level
wrestlers, have no other sport to go on to to make a living. I know real pro
wrestling is trying. I don't think it's being very successful, so a lot of
those wrestlers at the collegiate level are going on to mixed martial arts, as
a career, and they have probably been the most dominant group of martial
arts, trained martial arts fighters in.. .world wide they've had the most
success, over boxing, over karate and tae kwon do, and etc. So, urn, you
know, it's a great outlet. It gives them something to look forward to, if
they want to be professional athletes. Urn, and I keep hearing, you know,
it's a, it's the alcohol that you're concerned about, and I don't quite
understand how the alcohol and the fights together are causing the
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problem. You know, there's alcohol at every sporting event that I've went
to, and I'll admit I haven't been to a football game or any sporting event
here in Iowa City, but uh, you know, the chief of police said in his own
words that he has no proof. He didn't say there wasn't any problem. He
said, 'I have no proof that there's been any additional problem in the
streets or in the bar,' other than your typical stuff that takes place at bars.
And so if the alcohol and the fights were the problem, you would think
there'd be an increase of violence in the streets or inside the club, which
hasn't happened. So, I guess that's the point where I'm...I don't
understand why the alcohol is an issue. These people who come are not
children. They're adults, and uh, you know, we do our absolute best to
make sure that they're able and fit, that they haven't been drinking. I've
turned away many people because I did smell alcohol and you can, you
know, you could tell they had been drinking. Urn, I spoke to Monte, and I
don't know if this, if this is something that the Council would even
consider working with us on this, but hiring a police officer to administer,
to give breatha1yzer tests. That's not an issue. That's something that
could be done, simply. IFC is even considering, urn, Monte was.. . spoke
to them about coming in and overseeing our show as a sanctioning body.
They sanction a lot of the pro bouts through the Midwest and eastern side
of this country here. So, you know, I guess that's pretty much it. I've
rambled on enough. I would, uh, I noticed there were no questions at all
for Monte, and he's the gentleman who knows the most about this. So,
it's...I don't know how much I can answer, but I would love to have some
two-way talk, because I'm not sure, but has any of the Council been to
watch my show? Anyone? See, I didn't think any of you had ever came
to my show. You're more than welcome to come and sit ringside,
anytime. Before you judge on something that you think is dangerous, or
could be a problem, it would be nice if you would come and be my guest
sometime. I'll let you see what the show is about, and we had the film
crew come out just recently, and you know, whether the lady was being
nice or not I'm not sure, but she said she couldn't believe how much
different it was than what she's been hearing, and you'll see that my
crowd is not causing any trouble. You know, you'll be perfectly safe
sitting ringside with the rest of the college kids, and...
Wilburn:
You're going to have to wrap this up.
Jordan:
Oh, sure, sure. So, it would be nice to hear some questions, because I
would love to answer any of the misunderstandings that might be here.
Wilburn:
1.. .just a comment, a question, then I want to give it to someone, anyone
else who hasn't spoken an opportunity, and the Council will continue their
deliberations. Urn, I guess I'll refer to my other comments to the prior
speaker about regulation, but do you have, uh, or either of you have any
plans on trying to lobby the State for regulating amateur mixed?
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Jordan:
Wilburn:
Jordan:
Wilburn:
Dilkes:
Wilburn:
Jordan:
Wilburn:
Jordan:
Page 53
Yes, actually, Monte Cox.. .yes, the gentleman that I work with that
brought me into this business, urn...
I see him nodding.
Yes, he said yes, I mean he tried, he made an effort to get it so, and we
would love for it to be that way. The gentleman, Monte, is, is.. .him and
whatever athletic director it was at the time wrote up a lot of the laws and
regulations for the pro fights here. He's a very well respected person in
the community and he's tried, you know, to do everything possible to
make this sport legitimate in the State ofIowa.
Excuse me for interrupting. But those comments were kind of addressing
a few questions that were asked last time, but, Eleanor, I presume, and
again it's nice that you offer, but I presume if a police officer went down
and administered the breathalyzer to essentially okay someone for a fight
that that's a form of regulation.
I would say so.
Yeah. That's what, and that's what, just so you're aware, that's, I'm
referring to my earlier comments that it's, it's.. .it's great that you're
offering and he's offering to work with the City, as you said, to have
police or whatever, but the issue is regulation, and in my opinion, that's
not a liability area that I'm willing, or folks that I've heard from the public
in this community, are willing to address. So, again, it's great that, not
only for you, but anyone else who wishes to come t the area to promote
or...
.. .as simple as I don't know what kind of training is required for myself or
for someone on my staff to administer one of those. I know you can buy
them, the general public can buy those to do a breathalyzer, and I know of
many clubs I work at. I used to work at, be head of security at a few clubs
in Quad Cities. They always had cops hired to be on staff to watch and
make sure things didn't get out of control. You know, once again the
chief of police got up here and said he has no evidence that this has caused
any problems in our streets. So ifthere's been no spike of violence in
Iowa City, there's been no trouble inside the clubs since we've been doing
the fights, any more so than any other night. I guess I'm just missing on
why it's so bad for the City.
Okay, thanks for your comments.
Thank you.
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Cohen:
Wilburn:
Bailey:
Elliott:
Wilburn:
Page 54
My name's Leah Cohen and Ijust wanted to briefly, so that the public can
kind of understand, this initially was talked about with our, the Iowa City
Alcohol Advisory Board. The reason it was talked about is not for people
that are in training. That's not our concern at all. If they chose to do that
and go into training, that's fine. But what our concern was, the safety of
what I have talked to time and time again is students here at this
University, and we had talked about, it is our responsibility to do whatever
we can to keep these students safe, within reason, and this to me is
something that's way out of reason for these students, as was experienced
by these parents. I've talked to many students, and I know parents have
not heard about it, and I know you've heard from a few parents, but most
parents don't know what's gone on with this, and there have been some
incidences. There have been ambulance calls there. So, urn, the biggest
concern and the reason this issue was brought forward to you is not to
express concern about the people that are in training, that know what
they're doing. The concern is people that are there drinking that are dared
that get into this circumstance that they should not be in, and that's, I
think, was evident by what these parents were saying here, and again, I'm
asking you go to ahead and pass this, and I would very much appreciate it
if you could expedite it next time to have just the two readings. Thank
you.
Thanks for your comments. Would anyone else who has not spoken care
to address the Council on this issue? Council, deliberation?
Well, I guess I don't understand the concern, if we're providing a training
ground for people that still exists, I mean, it seems like ifit's such a
compelling sport that people can, will still be able to attend. You can go
to a bar before, you can go to a bar after, it just seems that you need to find
another funding mechanism, and urn, you know, ifit's such a big thing,
the market will drive it, and it will find a funding mechanism. So, I don't
understand all the concern about taking it out of a bar. I was ready to ban
it completely. I think this is a good compromise.
I.. .1, uh, I don't see the connection between fighting and bars as being a
healthy connection. But mostly, I don't want the City, the City of Iowa
City, involved in regulating this kind of thing. The NCAA regulates
football. IHSA regulates prep football and basketba11. Little
league.. . everything. . .if the State would want to regulate it, uh, I would
think again about it, but I do not want Iowa City involved in regulating
something of this type. So that would be the main reason why I would
favor this item.
Any other Council comments? Okay.
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Vanderhoef: In the meantime, I'll agree with Bob. Uh, the liability is the biggest
concern I have for the City of Iowa City, and certainly the folks that have
talked to me or sent emails to the Council, uh, they're mentioning this as
something that they don't think we ought to be getting into, as a city.
Bailey: We don't have the capacity. No.
Wilburn: Connie?
Champion: Well, if we regulate we have to enforce, and we don't have the capacity to
do that, and we're not, I don't think none of us are knowledgeable enough
to regulate this sport. It needs to be regulated by the State. None of us are
against people getting into a ring and fighting with each other, if that's
what they chose to do. We just don't think it belongs in a bar in Iowa City
with alcohol, because it's not regulated and we have no way of regulating
it. So I'm going to vote for this ordinance.
o 'Donnell: Well, and I've tried, I've talked to many people on this, and I've not had
one positive comment. I try and put together downtown, late at night,
young people, and alcohol, and it just doesn't seem to blend very well
together to me, urn, I don't think anybody's trying to impose any
restrictions on the sport, you know. It's your choice of a sport, but we...I
think it's more appropriate in a gymnasium, urn, certainly not in a bar
downtown where, urn, where I think an accident could happen.
Wilburn: Roll call.
Elliott: Could I have one more. . ..
Wilburn: Go ahead. Sure.
Elliott: . . .I appreciate the things that Mr. Janda and Mr. Poch and Ms. Klinefelter
have said, and I very much appreciate and respect what they are
attempting to do, so I just want that said. We recognize your efforts, and
we commend you for your efforts. We just don't want to be the ones to
regulate it. That said.
Wilburn: Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
O'Donnell: So moved.
Bailey: So moved.
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Wilburn:
Moved by O'Donnell, seconded by Bailey to accept correspondence. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign. Carries 7-0.
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ITEM 12
CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING ORDINANCE PROPOSED BY
CITIZEN INITIATIVE PETITION:
Whereas, it is in the public interest to provide, unless otherwise
exempted by law or ordinance, that a person shall have attained legal
age (currently 21 yeas of age or more) to lawfully be on the premises
between the hours of 10:00 p.m. to closing of any Iowa City
establishment holding a liquor control license, a wine or beer permit,
that authorizes on-premises consumption.
Now, therefore, be it resolved, that Article 4, chapter 5, section 8 of
the City Code of Iowa City - entitled Persons Under 19 Years of Age in
Licensed or Permitted Establishments - shall be modified to replace
"nineteen (19) years of age" wherever and however it appears within
such Section 8 with "the legal age." (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Vanderhoef: Move first consideration.
Wilburn: Moved by Vanderhoef.
Champion: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Champion. Discussion?
Elliott: By defeating this, we move to the other alternative of referendum, correct?
Wilburn: By defeating this, we have to consider Item 13 and that is the option we
would have. Urn, I guess we'll see how the vote goes, but uh, just so the
Council knows, urn, it's the opinion of the City Attorney that, uh, because
our code, not our code, our Charter suggests that we have to take action on
the item that is carried, that was brought to us by the Citizens Initiative.
We can't just vote on, vote to place it on the ballot. I will be voting yes
for this to be consistent with my position about 21 being passed, just so
the Council's aware.
Bailey: And I'll be voting no (unable to hear).
Correia: And I guess, I. . . I mean, I have been against the 21-ordinance in the past,
and because the, we've had a lot of community discussion, I've had a lot
of contact with constituents about the ordinance with more people that
I've talked to supportive of it than, urn, against it, urn. I think, I mean, I
think it's a complicated topic, issue, for our community. I did ask
Eleanor, urn, which other cities, major cities in the state have a 21-
ordinance, which include Ames, Des Moines, Dubuque, Davenport, Sioux
City, did I miss any?
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Dilkes: Waterloo, Cedar Rapids...
Correia: Cedar Rapids, and...
Bailey: Well, not only to be consistent with my position, but I do believe that
some people signed the petition in interest of having a vote on it. Urn,
it.. . obviously some people signed it because they wanted an ordinance
passed, and I think that that seems to be what the citizens are calling for.
So...
Wilburn: And I understand that, but I, I can't control what they signed or didn't
sign, for whatever reasons. I have in front of me.. . yeah, yeah.
Champion: I'm just glad they signed it, so it can go to a vote! (laughter)
Bailey: I think participation is...
Elliott: I will vote no, so that it will be placed on the referendum.
Vanderhoef: And I will be doing the same thing. And I have consistently said that I
support 21, so this is, is a little bit different on the consistency, but over
the years, we have had so much conversation and input from health
people, from interested citizens, from parents. I've talked with, urn, the
parents of the University students, their organization. It's all over the
place, and for different reasons, and it's like, it's time for the people to tell
us what, what they think is best for our community, and granted, this
community is slightly different in population demographics and so forth
than other places in Iowa or across the nation, but in looking at what
happens across the nation, I communicate with a lot of university cities
when I go to National League of Cities and they're pretty consistent on
being 21, and so I'm hopeful that that's the way the vote will go. I will,
uh, certainly abide by whatever that vote is when they have spoken.
Wilburn: I don't think you have a choice. (laughter)
Dilkes: You have a choice ifit's a no vote. You don't have a choice ifit's a yes
vote.
O'Donnell: I have not supported the 21 issue. I don't have any doubt that this group
that did the referendum cares about the well being of the students, the
young people in general. I do too. It's much different...1 will be voting
no on this because I think it should go to a vote. In my mind, it's going to
create more people on the road. It's going to create more house parties. I
just, urn, you know, I really do not feel that this accomplishes what they're
setting out to do, and we always have the option of enforcing the existing
law.
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Wilburn: Roll call. Item fails, Wilburn and Correia voting in the affirmative.
(unable to hear)
Karr: I'm sorry, could I have a motion to accept correspondence first.
Wilburn: Okay.
O'Donnell: So moved.
Wilburn: Moved by O'Donnell.
Bailey: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Bailey to accept correspondence. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed same sign. Item carries 7-0.
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#13 Page 60
ITEM 13 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING
THE JOHNSON COUNTY AUDITOR TO PLACE THE QUESTION
OF WHETHER TO ADOPT THE PROPOSED PUBLIC MEASURE
MODIFYING ARTICLE 4, CHAPTER 5, SECTION 8 OF THE
CITY CODE OF IOWA CITY - ENTITLED "PERSONS UNDER 19
YEARS OF AGE IN LICENSED OR PERMITTED
ESTABLISHMENTS" - TO REPLACE "NINETEEN (19)"
WHEREVER AND HOWEVER IT APPEARS WITHIN SUCH
SECTION 8 WITH "THE LEGAL AGE" BEFORE THE
QUALIFIED ELECTORS OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, IOWA
AT THE NEXT REGULAR CITY ELECTION ON NOVEMBER 6,
2007.
Bailey: Move the resolution.
Champion: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Roll call. Item
carries 7-0.
Elliott: Eleanor, a question. Are we constrained from indicating our preference
between now and November?
Dilkes: No, you're not. What...
Elliott: We can.. .we can promote one way or the other, if we so, if we personally
feel. ..
Wilburn: I think we can't use City resources.
Dilkes: . . .individually, and with your own resources.
Elliott: Okay.
Dilkes: Public resources cannot be used, urn, to either support or oppose the
measure.
Elliott: But we personally, okay, thank you.
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ITEM 15 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO
SIGN AND THE CLERK TO ATTEST TO AN AGREEMENT TO
LEND BERRY COURT LIMITED PARTNERSHIP $320,000 TO
PRESERVE 14 UNITS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
Bailey: Move the resolution.
Wilburn: Moved by Bailey.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion?
Elliott: I like this concept. It enables the entity to purchase very low cost housing,
provide for remodeling and upgrading the house, and they therefore then
would be available at a very low cost for rentals, and one of the main
things is those houses would go, those homes would go on the tax rolls.
Wilburn: Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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ITEM 16 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING FUNDING FOR
DISCERNING EYE, INC. FROM IOWA CITY'S COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT - ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT FUND AND AUTHORIZING THE CITY
MANAGER TO ACT AS CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER
AND SUBMIT ALL NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION TO THE
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT.
Wilburn: Item 16, I have a conflict of interest because I work for an organization
that has received Community Development Block Grant funds, and cannot
participate in deliberation or a vote on this item.
Bailey: (reads Item 16)
Elliott: Move to defer.
Champion: Move to defer. Second, definitely!
Bailey: Moved by Elliott, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Roll call. Oh, all
those in favor, signify by saying aye. Those opposed same sign. Motion
carries 6-0, Wilburn abstaining due to conflict of interest.
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ITEM 17 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO
SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST A RENEWAL OF A
CHAPTER 28E AGREEMENT FOR EMERGENCY RADIO
COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY,
IOWA AND JOHNSON COUNTY, IOWA.
Vanderhoef: Move the resolution.
Wilburn: Moved by Vanderhoef.
Bailey: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Bailey. Discussion?
Bailey: I'm assuming that in the event that we accomplish the Joint Emergency
Communication Center, we just create a new contract and this become
void, so this doesn't create any barriers or impediments to that.. . okay.
Wilburn: Okay. Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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~o P~eM
ITEM 20 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING AND
DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY
CLERK TO ATTEST AN AMENDMENT TO THE CONSULTANT
AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY
AND ROHRBACH ASSOCIATES, P.c. OF IOWA CITY, IOWA
FOR ARCHITECTURE AND ENGINEERING CONSULTANT
SERVICES FOR THE FIRE STATION #2 DEMOLITION AND
CONSTRUCTION PROJECT.
Champion: Move the resolution.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Wilburn: Moved by Champion, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion?
Elliott: I have a quick question of the City Manager. I had a person ask me, and
perhaps he is watching tonight, what will happen with the vehicles and
equipment during the time of demolition and rebuilding?
Atkins: What Andy will have to do is he's going to have to find an alternate spot
from which to dispatch. We think we'll probably be using the wastewater
treatment plant site. We haven't decided yet, but we will have to find an
alternate dispatch point.
Elliott: So that would be considerably further north, but more accessible to the
west side.
Atkins: Yeah. We... that is a consideration. He recognizes he has to come up with
that.
Vanderhoef: It's not north.
Champion: South.
Vanderhoef: Right down by the dog.. . (several talking at once).
Atkins: Waste water treatment plant.
Elliott: Oh, the wastewater! Oh, I was thinking of the water treatment...
Atkins: No! The wastewater. I may have said water.
Elliott: Yep, yep! (several talking at once)
Atkins: Anyway, that's a consideration. That will be dealt with at the time.
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Elliott:
Okay.
Bailey:
Good question!
Wilburn:
Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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ITEM 22
AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE 7, ENTITLED FIRE
PREVENTION AND PROTECTION, AND TITLE 17, ENTITLED
BUILDING AND HOUSING TO ESTABLISH FIRE AND LIFE
SAFETY REQUIREMENTS FOR NEW AND EXISTING GROUP
A-2 AND B OCCUPANCIES.
a) PUBLIC DISCUSSION
Wilburn: Anyone from the public here to address the Council on this item? This is
continued from the last several meetings.
Brown: Yeah, Rory Brown from the Dublin Underground, uh, and I'm not going
to go back into my situation. I've explained that to you guys enough, but
uh, I just wanted to make the comment that I still find it frustrating that so
much extra ink has been included in this ordinance, just to target my small
business. I find it frustrating that last year my sprinkler system with extra
protection that I provided when it was not an ordinance, and at the sweep
of a pen, it becomes an outdated system, up until this ordinance, it's been
extra work I've done, and no thank you, no pat on the back. Uh, and I find
it frustrating that even though there are more off-street establishments
under 100 in occupancy in town, I'm the only one of them required to
comply with this ordinance. I truly feel like I'm in the cross hairs with
this ordinance. So, uh, please reconsider categories with 808, Deadwood,
and Mickey's, rather than with the Union, Jake's, and Field House. If you
do this, I will use this as leverage with my landlord to try to take
advantage of the three-year grant offer that you are generously offering.
So, any questions on why I would have those thoughts?
Wilburn: Thank you. You've made it clear over the last several public discussions.
Thank you. Anyone else care to address the Council? Okay. Do I need to
close public discussion, have a motion. . .
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Vanderhoef: So moved.
Bailey: So moved.
Wilburn: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Bailey to accept correspondence. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign. Is that a no I don't need
to.. .just public discussion? Okay. All right, okay.
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b) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
(DEFERRED FROM 4/16, 5/1, 5/14, 6/5) REVISED ORDINANCE
INCLUDED IN COUNCIL PACKET.
Bailey: I move first consideration.
Wilburn: Okay, thank you. Moved by Bailey.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Wilburn: Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion?
Elliott: We have talked, talked, and listened, and discussed, disagreed, and
everything else you can think of, and uh, this is not a perfect situation.
This is a perfect example of why democracy is neither efficient, nor
sometimes terribly productive, but we've tried to do the fairest thing we
can for the owners and operators of these businesses, and done the best we
can for public safety, and I will be supporting this.
Champion: Well, I don't any of us are totally happy with it. I think there are two
individuals who I think are being treated unequally, but like you said, it's
not a perfect document and I am going to support it because I'm tired of
talking about it. (laughter) That's not the only reason!
Bailey: I agree. In my mind, this is a quite an imperfect ordinance. I thought we
would do a lot more for public safety, but sometimes an idealist, I guess,
has to take what she can get. So I think I will...I will be supporting this.
Elliott: A lot of people worked very hard and those people were not... the Council
did, but the staff and the operators and the Alcohol Board. I really
appreciate all the work everyone has done.
Wilburn: Ijust want to thank both staff and members of the public that came
forward and spoke, and appreciate all the time you put into it.
Bailey: And I just want to note that we are working on the financing package, and
are very open to that, and I think that we will put something together that
will be favorable to small businesses because we've noted that's a
concern, and we respect the small businesses that are (unable to hear).
Correia: At our next meeting will we have a proposal for financing? Is that
something that's possible?
Atkins: Certainly.
Dilkes: I think the plan is to put the resolution on with the final reading.
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Correia: Oh, okay.
Dilkes: I mean, if you want to talk about it before then you can. ..
Atkins: There's no reason why we can't have it, certainly, outlined for you by the
next meeting.
Correia: And then in terms of the, uh, the plans for doing, for the City doing the
water main, the water line work, that'll have to happen at the time when...
Atkins: Yes.
Correia: So, is that. ..I mean that would be. . .
Atkins: Ifthere's a favorable vote tonight on the first reading, we'll start initiating
the staff work immediately.
Correia: Okay.
Atkins: Assuming that it's likely to pass.
Correia: Okay.
Vanderhoef: So that we could potentially get the water lines taken care of during this
construction season.
Atkins: Can't promise that! I don't know all the intricacies in the sense that we're
going to try to bid as few jobs as we can. That is, how many can we put
together, and Ijust don't have the answers to that right now. That would
be the desire, but I just can't promise you thought.
Vanderhoef: Definitely the desire!
Wilburn: Roll call. Item carries 7-0.
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#25 Page 69
ITEM 25 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Wilburn: Bob?
Elliott: In March I found something regarding immigration and some other things
about which I wanted to rant. We have spent so much time and worked so
many long hours, I put it offuntil now. I think the Mayflower got here
before, in shorter time than we've talked about things. So... that's a done
deal. I won't talk about it anymore. I will tell you that I've had a happy
birthday today. This is the first time I celebrated my birthday with a
meeting like this. I'm 72 today, and enjoying it!
Wilburn: Happy birthday! (several talking at once) Believe it was Dee's birthday
on the.. . 15th? So happy birthday to you, too.
Vanderhoef: Thank you.
Wilburn: Regenia?
Bailey: Urn, I just want to thank the Human Rights Commission for putting
together these buttons, recognizing the 30-year anniversary of including
sexual orientation in our Human Rights ordinance. We were certainly at
the cutting edge, and I'm proud of that, and proud to wear the pin, and
celebrate that part of our community. Urn, I also, and I know Karin
Franklin you're watching this (laughter) so...I just, well, no, I bet she is!
Urn, I know that this was Karin's last meeting and I just want to say to her
that it's been an honor and a privilege to learn so much with her, and urn, I
will certainly miss working with her, and want to acknowledge that it's
been her determination and vision that has created an incredibly beautiful
city, and, Karin, even though you have very small feet, you leave very big
shoes to fill. So, enjoy your retirement!
Wilburn: I meant to bring this up, uh, Karin, at the time we finished Planning and
Zoning, but uh, everybody needed a break and I let it slide. My
apologizes. I reflect her comments too. Dee?
Vanderhoef: I think we all echo what you've said. Karin has been a loyal supporter of
the City and a loyal employee of the City, and I'm sure she'll continue to
be a supporter of Iowa City and I wish her well in retirement.
Wilburn: Mike?
Vanderhoef: I got one more thing!
Wilburn: Oh, I'm sorry!
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Vanderhoef: (laughter) I'll make it quick! I just wanted to let you know I participated
this past week in a conference call, press conference, with NBC News and
the Des Moines Register and Cedar Rapids, and unfortunately Iowa City
wasn't on the line, but it has to do with the Mayor's Climate Control
Protection Agreement, and uh, how they are looking to decrease global
warming by 7% by the year 2012. This was put together by the Sierra
Club group and the National Cool Cities group, and so I was there
representing Iowa League of Cities, and what we can do in education for
our cities on every little thing that is possible that doesn't take a huge lot
of dollars to participate, and we can all work as 900 and some cities to
promote greenhouse gases and it was a privilege to be part of that group.
Wilburn: Promote reducing greenhouse gases.
O'Donnell: Are you finished? (laughter)
Vanderhoef: Please, Mike, go ahead! (laughter)
O'Donnell: Uh, thank you, Karin, for being a good friend and good source of
information at the City. You'll be missed. Happy birthday, Bob. I had no
idea you were 72. I thought you were much older than that! (laughter)
Oh, there he goes. Also, I had an interesting call, and I don't know if we
need to put this on a work session or not, but I had a, actually had two
calls. Somebody took a dog down to our animal shelter. Evidently it was
a student, leaving town, and the dog was not taken there and the options
were not good. So, I really don't know if we can say that we're not going
to take that dog and find it a home. So I think we should put that on a
work session and talk about it.
Champion: I don't understand your question. (several talking at once)
O'Donnell: The animal shelter would not accept the dog, so the option is to let the dog
go, and I'm very uncomfortable with that.
Champion: I see, that's what.. ..yeah.
O'Donnell: The owner was trying to get rid of the dog, and I really think that, uh, we
should have stepped in and tried to find the dog a home.
Elliott: My understanding is they wouldn't do it because the dog looked a lot like
Mike. (laughter)
O'Donnell: But it wasn't 72! (laughter)
Wilburn: Are there others of you who wish to. . .
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Bailey: Maybe it would be useful for Misha to come and talk about the policies of
the animal shelter. (several talking at once) Yeah, we haven't seen her for
a while.
Champion: You don't want people just letting their dogs run loose in the city.
O'Donnell: No, or the other option.
Champion: Well, we're all going to miss Karin, and I envy her because now she can
just be a full-time grandmother! (laughter)
Wilburn: Amy?
Correia: Urn, I just wanted to let folks know about the Respectful Communities
Project. It's an initiative of the University Office of, urn, Equal
Opportunity and Diversity. It's a, where town gown collaboration, it's
been an initiative happening all year. They had an event right
before.. .right before the Council meeting tonight, a respectful community
building session where they broke folks up into small groups to ask them
what does it mean to have a respectful community, what are some ways in
which to raise awareness, what are ways we can work together for the
betterment of the community. The Human Rights Commission was a
partner on this one event. There have been events all year, and based on
the presentation tonight on the project, they're considering continuing it
next year. So I think it's going to be valuable effort of the University
that's really involving the whole community, and Ijust also want to let
folks know I'm going to be attending in a couple of weeks a National
League of Cities' training event that's a collaboration with the United
Way of America, called BITC and Beyond, which is the earned income tax
credit, and beyond, talking about how cities can support, collaborate with
United Ways and other local partners on getting folks who are eligible for
the earned income tax credit to claim the credit, and then also other asset
building and financial types of activities on how city government can help
to promote those types of things. So, I'll be.. .received a scholarship, urn,
from the National League to attend that conference, so.. .look forward to
that.
Wilburn: Okay. Ijust want to say congratulations to the Iowa City Slammers Girls'
Softball 12 and Under Traveling Club. They.. .won third place - we'll
leave the coach out of it - third place at the Class C State tournament this
weekend. They worked really hard and had a good season, and
congratulations to the Iowa City Jaguars, too. They were at another State
tournament, worked hard, played some really good teams. Good softball
was played this weekend!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council meeting of June 19,2007.