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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-06-18 Transcription June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 1 June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session 5:30 PM Council: Bailey, Champion, Correia, Elliott, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn UISG: Volland Staff: Atkins, Boothroy, Dilkes, Hargadine, Helling, Hennes, Jensen, Johnson, Karr, Kopping, Meyer, Morris, Rocca TAPES: 07-45 Both Sides; 07-46 Both Sides. Taser Purchase Wilburn: Good evening everybody. Chief, you ready to go? Johnson: One second. Wilburn: Ok. Johnson: Need a longer intro. there. Wilburn: I thought I was running behind. Bailey: He comes in prepared. Karr: Sam, you want to turn the microphone please? There you go. Thanks. Johnson: What we don't have- Atkins: I like that. Wilburn: While we're waiting, this weekend the Iowa City Slammers Eastside 12 and Under Softball Club got third place at a State softball tournament, so. Vanderhoef: Fantastic. Champion: That's good. Bailey: Was the coach (can't hear) Elliott: Was anyone you know playing for them? Wilburn: I do! I do. Alex Wilburn was. Elliott: Oh really. Vanderhoef: How about coaching? Bailey: Did the coach get in the way and that's whey they got third? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 2 Wilburn: That would be Ross Wilburn, yeah. Johnson: Wilburn: Was that in Des Moines? That was in West Des Moines. Johnson: I believe that we stayed in the same motel as some of the Slammers did. Bailey: Were they well behaved? Johnson: They have voracious appetites. (laughter) Johnson: Looked like locusts at breakfast. Vanderhoef: That's why he's losing weight. He puts all the food into his kids. Elliott: It's my understanding they did well in spite of the coaching. Wilburn: Well, it's always the case, always the case. Hargadine: What we've got is 3 different topics on the agenda. Number 1 is the taser - proposed taser purchase utilizing federal grant funds, and Captain Matt Johnson is going to be the primary presenter on the taser issue. Johnson: Just to familiarize you with this, the taser is a trade name and the technology is known by several different names; those are displayed overhead. What really drove part of our decision to pursue this was looking at the costs that we were incurring as a result of officers being taken out of service due to injuries sustained during arrests. We calculated a single incident in 2003 and just looked at medical costs, but we also looked in the subsequent years of '04 through '07 of patrol shifts which were lost due to officers sustaining injuries as a function of arrests and then tied a monetary value to those lost shifts. That is represented in officers working overtime to cover that vacant shift, and that occurs even if an officer is placed on light duty, so they are performing some work, but they're just not covering their patrol watch. We are currently the only agency in the County who is not using this technology. University police I believe were the first, followed by Coralville and then Johnson County, and University Heights and North Liberty Police Departments are also utilizing the technology. Currently very few deployments, relatively speaking, of the technology. It seems that it prevents a great deal of conflict just by the presence of having the tool available. And so that sort of drove our decision to pursue this. Elliott: Questions? Johnson: Yes. Bailey: Oh. Elliott: The taser, my understanding, there's some danger involved with it, but it is considerably, it's, it's an in-between using a revolver or other weapon. Considerably less dangerous. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Johnson: Bailey: Wilburn: Johnson: Bailey: Johnson: City Council Work Session Page 3 It's considered less lethal technology. It's not considered non-lethal technology, for the very, the very fact that you point out is that there is potential that harm can come from the deployment ofthat. It is also as you've identified a seagueway weapon, so that in cases where you need standoff distance between whatever person is the focus of your attention and the officer, you can deliver this from a distance of up to 25 feet. And the function of the weapon is such that results are extremely fast, I mean in seconds in virtually every case a person is placed in a position where they are unable to resist, versus closer tools that we use. For instance, an impact weapon like a baton, where the officer has to be in very close proximity and then if we go to the standoff weapons like OC, the pepper spray that we use, we don't have a) instantaneous results like you do with the taser. There is some contamination from the use of that, overspray and the officers who have to make the arrest getting contaminated, and it's not always, it doesn't always work. We- I'd imagine too less possibility for bystanders to be injured or affected by contamination like you said with the OCS gas, that type of thing. Absolutely so. It's a laser targeted weapon, so you are very confident of your target when you're deploying it. Will you talk a little bit about the training and the protocol that you're going to use? That is a huge component of what we anticipate doing. A couple of years ago the International Association of Chiefs of Police put together a 9 point proposal that departments who are considering utilizing this tool add. Much of this we do already. Much of the policy that we will put in place is driven in great part by our accreditation. So, but we have already established a team within the department to look at this issue, to decide, to sort of weigh the pros and cons of going to this tool. We definitely will put this on our use of force model as we do with all the other tools that our officers utilize. We've already discussed in limited degree the cost benefit analysis that we conducted. Part of the training involves identifying for the officers what their individual responsibilities are, what the watch supervisors' responsibilities are, what the responsibilities of the review team that we have on board are, and then ultimately what administrative responsibilities we have for overseeing employment. Policy and procedures, again, that lends itself to the discussion we just had about accreditation, that's got to be part ofthis. Because this is a tool that's been in the community for such a long time I think there's a familiarity in the community about the presence of this. So while I'm not suggesting that that's not important, much of that has been accomplished already. Training is a huge component. We've identified one of our less lethal instructors to take the lead to serve as a trainer for our department. There are other trainers within the County that we can utilize as well to assist if we need to. Weare phasing deployment of this if it's accepted, and that is that we will purchase a certain number, not issue them to every officer, and continue to evaluate the effectiveness of the tool. And then part of our review process for use of force is every 2 months we have a panel that meets and reviews every use of force that occurs within the department. That's made up of the Administrative Services Captain, a sergeant, and a line officer. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Bailey: Johnson: Bailey: Champion: Johnson: Hargadine: Johnson: Champion: Johnson: O'Donnell: City Council Wark Session Page 4 So beyond the cost benefit analysis, how else will you evaluate the effectiveness of the tool? I think that we '11 look at the issue of control. We will look at the issue of actual deployment versus just the presence of the tool. Those are probably the 3 big methods of evaluation we'll use. Oh. Since I'm not really a very smart technical person, how does this work and what are the complications from it? Quite frankly, I can't tell you what the complications are. I've read a couple of studies that the endeavor was to recreate physiological response with the taser present, and in those studies they were unable to recreate the complications experienced that are referred to in other publications. And I don't want to try and explain it because I'm also a lay person, but the concept of the taser is the delivery of 50,000 volts of power, which is sort of staggering when you hear it, until you hear that a static electric shock is perhaps 30,000. Those, those demonstrations in museums where you put your hand on it and your hair stands on end are hundreds of thousands. The, sort of the nasty aspect of electricity is in the amps, the current that pushes the voltage, and these are significantly lower amperage, like milliamps versus even a single amp. And it delivers an electric charge and convulses the muscles so it's involuntary so that you are unable to resist, that it tightens you up and oftentimes brings you to your knees. And officers that come in to handcuff a person are not affected by it, because they're not in between the probes that are deployed. It delivers a 5 second charge with one pull of the trigger. You can't hold it down for 10 seconds. Even if you did, it's going to deliver 5 seconds. The weapon then has to be returned back to the station. You can not hide the fact that you deployed it. It has to be reset. With the deployment there are they're called aphids, they're small papers with the number, the serial number ofthat particular cartridge on it that officers will be required to gather to demonstrate deployment. You can also download off a data port in the taser into a computer to show the circumstances: time, date. I don't know if it monitors temperature. I think that's not the case, but pretty sophisticated tracking. And where, tell me about where this weapon is aimed at. Does it make any difference where it hits the body? There are certainly areas where it is not to be aimed. Generally the aim is at the same point that a firearm is aimed, and that is center mass, because you maximize the potential of hitting your target. The probes, the probes typically, when they deploy, spread, and that's to facilitate the movement of the electrical charge between them. But generally center mass, the largest area. Matt, who is using this in the area once again? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Johnson: O'Donnell: Correia: Johnson: Correia: Bailey: Champion: Johnson: Correia: Hargadine: Johnson: Correia: Hargadine: Elliott: Hargadine: Johnson: Elliott: Hargadine: Elliott: Hargadine: Johnson: City Council Wark Session Page 5 All the agencies with the exception ofthe Iowa City Police Department. The Sheriffs Office, the Coralville Police Department, University of Iowa Police Department, University Heights PD, and North Liberty PD. Ok. Thank you. What does it look like? It looks very much like a firearm with a very blunt end, a box-like end. Oh there it is. Oh. Wow. I thought it'd look like a phaser. It looks like one of those things the kids use at - those little round things. The green box at the end is the area that the probes deploy from. And so you're saying one deployment per firearm in a situation. It's possible to re - , to do a second shock. Correct. Oh. And it's gonna be for another 5 seconds. But this thing is smart enough, it's going to tell the story once it's back. I mean, I can't imagine here, but if an officer denied deploying the weapon, the weapon's going to be able to report what exactly happened to them, that it was deployed once or twice. At some point they have to reload the front end. I like the fact that this is going to be phased in, the results will be studied. I'm just wondering - what's the weight on this? Fairly light. I can - I'mjust wondering, how much weight do your officers now carry around, and how much will this add to it? I think space is more of the issue. We're looking at one per car. Yeah. I'm just wondering, if you, ifthey wear it all the time, as a revolver? Some departments do. I think we're, we're looking at issuing a holster to each officer, but then there'd be enough for one per car. I would expect that the officers on duty would wear that for the entire run of their watch. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 6 Vanderhoef: So you say there is a way to reset for a 2nd five second charge - Hargadine: With the, if the probes hit where they're supposed to, and if the first jolt is not enough to disable someone, it can be, you can pull the trigger. It's not going to fire again; it's going to apply the jolt again. Johnson: There won't be the delivery ofthe probes. That's a one time deal. The probes can be reenergized a 2nd time, a 3rd time. Correia: Explain probes. Bailey: Yeah. I'm not following this at all. Johnson: They're like two barbs. In the earlier models, unless they, unless they stuck in skin would not be effective, and the current designs are they can stick into clothing and still deliver the charge. Champion: Oh, so this actually shoots something out. It isn't shooting out a ray. Johnson: Yes it does. No. Hargadine: No. Champion: Oh. Johnson: And it's attached to a wire, to the weapon. And there's about 25 feet of standoff distance. Bailey: Oh. Champion: And then the wire carries the charge. Johnson: Charge. Correct. Vanderhoef: I guess I was thinking of something more in a crowd or say when the bar has emptied out and there was an altercation on the ped mall and there were two people that you wanted to stop both of them. Johnson: In that circumstance I would not, with or without this tool, I would not expect a single officer to intervene to the degree that control was established, or expect them to be able to do that. I would expect that we would have multiple officers responding to that sort of an incident, in which case I would also expect that they would be carrying a taser. Vanderhoef: Ok. Wilburn: And you would still have other non, less-lethal methods, the OCS gas, etc., etc. Johnson: Correct. Champion: Right. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 7 Correia: So you said that all the other departments have this but none of them have deployed. Johnson: No. Correia: So what do you think - you think people who might have it pointed at them understand it's a taser or they think it's a gun? Johnson: If I said no one has deployed it, I, that is not what I meant. Bailey: Oh, ok. Johnson: There has been limited deployments with these. I think the University has indicated like 3 in the last 2 years. Bailey: Ok. Johnson: The Sheriffs Office, I don't know their data. In the last year, the Coralville police probably 5 or 6 times. Very limited deployments given the numbers of use of force that occur in a department. So I think that those deployments to some degree have illustrated the effectiveness of the tool and I think that dissuades people who may be inclined to resist or oppose from doing that. Champion: Could you use it - Vanderhoef: Well - go ahead. Champion: Sorry. Could you use this if somebody was running from the police? Johnson: I think that you would have very limited capability to do that because of the limitations that the standoff distance gives you. Ifthey're, if they're outpacing you that's gonna be of very limited value. Conceivably you could. I think those occasions would be - Champion: Rare. Johnson: Quite infrequent and probably wouldn't fit the parameters we put in place for deployment. Vanderhoef: What is the budget implication? What's the cost of one taser plus holster times how many we would need to reach the capacity that you're talking about of one for each officer? Hargadine: Sometimes it depends on the bid, but I'm not sure what ball park - Bailey: Range - Hargadine: Range they go for. Certainly the number that you buy they get cheaper. I want to say 1200. Johnson: I would think that would be top end. Per holster, weapon and the cartridges on the end. Correia: 1200 per set. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Johnson: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Johnson: Bailey: Johnson: Bailey: Johnson: Elliott: Johnson: Elliott: Bailey: Johnson: Bailey: Johnson: Bailey: Elliott: Hargadine: City Council Work Session Page 8 Right. And then - Is there a maintenance cost? That's what I was gonna ask. Yeah, what's the ongoing cost, the cartridges- Well battery replacement, they are rechargeable, so battery replacement is, I guess, spread out in terms of the life of the weapon. The cartridges of course have to be replaced. And do, the person who is training on this, you don't have to send somebody away to do special training, there are people local, or you do - We do. So there are some additional costs of training, a little bit, to train a trainer? A little bit, but it's, it would occur at the federal training center in Sioux City, so our costs would be transportation and salary for lost time for the officer. Can you train a trainer? Yes. Ok. Yeah. So once you train somebody, that's just sort of some ongoing recurring training. Ok. Our intention is to repeat the training for this every year. Good. As a refresher. Ok. The thing that I like about this from everything I've seen, read and what have you is you provide a report to us periodically of when a weapon is drawn. And when a weapon is drawn this, this to me provides a much more appropriate approach to that type of situation, because the alternative to the weapon, more than likely, will be lethal. And this alternative provides, as you said, a non-lethal alternative, and I think that's very beneficial for the officer and for the public. We had a recent incidence, I think it was about 3 weeks ago, where an individual, and I don't want to draw specific attention to that case, but it's a typical scenario as to how I see this being deployed. An individual was off of his medication, he was very large, makes him look small. And he'd been arguing and fighting with his family all day long. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Champion: Hargadine: Champion: Hargadine: Bailey: Wilburn: Elliott: (laughter) City Council Work Session Page 9 They had finally had enough and called Iowa City Police Department. When we got there the fighting was almost immediate, to include the family that had been fighting with him all day. So this individual, we ended up I think with 3 total hurt. Two of them were back to work fairly quickly. But all 3 had to seek medical attention and one ofthem was off for a better part of a month recuperating, so these are the typical type of things that hopefully in a couple years our lost time due to assaults on an officer, they would be reduced. Well I like this thing. I don't really like things like this, but I can see- I wish I didn't have to ask for it, but that's the world which we- I see some real use for this to protect not only the police officer but to protect the assailant of whatever they're called. I, I think this is a valuable tool, actually. Some other things, just side notes - for instance, pepper spray. Pepper spray takes about 40 minutes to recover from. It, it's just nasty stuff. And this, it's much quicker. They're almost, you have to go in and apply handcuffs fairly quickly, because they recover quickly. And so, in some instances, if I were going to encounter some type of force, I would probably rather get this, because I'm gonna be back to normal quicker. Pepper spray is not fun to go through either. This has been very, very helpful. I think that this was good to go through this. Thanks. I think the other thing too with the, with the chemicals, the pepper spray and more effective stuff, the contamination, the residue left over takes awhile to clean up. I remember, believe it or not, being at a church and someone had to be removed and was pepper sprayed and for the next hour we were all affected in the place by it. You go to activist churches don't you? Hargadine: Officers know that. When, when there's been, when you're in close confinement, I've got about 10 seconds to get the handcuffs on, otherwise I'm going to be worthless. And so they know that and they succumb to the stuff just like anybody else. Champion: Great. O'Donnell: Good. Bailey: Great. Thank you so much. Vanderhoef: Are there any grants available? Hargadine: This is, we're asking- Bailey: That's what- Hargadine: We're asking permission to purchase this utilizing a grant. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 10 Vanderhoef: Versus a grant. Johnson: The entire, the entire purchase should be covered under a grant. Wilburn: Anyone want to proceed forward with this? Vanderhoef: Yes. Champion: Yes. Elliott: Yes. Very much. O'Donnell: I do. Elliott: But I think, I do think this is beneficial for us to have heard about it. Vanderhoef: Yes. Elliott: So when somebody says hey I heard the police, we know what's happening, we understand at least a little of it, so thank you. Bailey: Well I had some real concerns given some of the, you know, the more dramatic incidences in the news and that's why I wanted you to come. Elliott: You can imagine the rumors. Champion: Yeah, I've heard a lot of them. Bailey: Sure. Vanderhoef: Expansion on the story. Taxi Stands Wilburn: Taxi stand? Is that what you're going to next? Hargadine: We've looked at the situation. There isn't really data that we can extract from the computer system that's going to help you. As soon as we started enforcing the ordinances you started getting calls, and, you know, as far as who does it benefit the most, obviously it does benefit the taxis. I can't tell you that it doesn't. I think that, when we sent offices down there to look at the different situations over a course of time, yes, the taxis are utilizing them. They're still using other spaces as well. They still pick up people along the roadway, you know, when they're flagged down, and that's a good thing, we want to encourage that. It's confusing, I think, to the average citizen who parks in one of those spots, and that's probably the downside to it. Question? Correia: When you say they're using other spots, is that still like the middle of the road type of spots? Bailey: Yeah, that's what I - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 11 Correia: Or do you just mean other parking spots? Bailey: Has, has it taken them out of the middle of Dubuque Street? Johnson: In particular the 10 block of South Dubuque Street has had a dramatic reduction in the number of vehicles parked in the middle of the street. I think one of the observations that our officers have made is that the utilization of the taxi zones changes depending on the hour of the day. For instance, the evening watch sees greater utilization than does the late night watch. The late night cab operators I think as a general rule tend to stay more mobile and pick people up in flight versus - Correia: What are the times of those watches? Johnson: 3 to 11 is the evening watch. Late night watch starts at 11, goes to 7 am. So there's a difference there, but that's obviously demand driven as well. Vanderhoef: So you think they're mostly cruising when the bars let out. Johnson: I think there's a lot of that. Hargadine: But if there's a slot that becomes available, they pull into it, whether that's a normal metered spot or whether it's a taxi zone, they're gonna use what they can. Correia: So in the those, in the hours, that 5 to 9 or 5 or 8, there are taxis utilizing most of those spaces? Johnson: I don't know that I'd say most of the spaces. I'd say they are being used to a greater degree than they are after 11 o'clock, when there appears to be a more mobile group of cabs out. Wilburn: I don't know if you've heard reports in terms of which ones get - my observation is the Iowa Avenue ones tend to be a little bit more during that evening shift, but I don't know if that - Bailey: Or Saturday night I noticed the Iowa Avenue ones weren't being used at all. I think it just depends. Wilburn: And I think, yeah, as with anything, depending on when you're down there, what time, you're going to see them being used, you're going to see them not being used. Bailey: Right. Wilburn: But to say they are always being used or that they are never being used, which are statements that have come across, isn't- Correia: I walked by a taxi stand, the taxi stand some time between 5 and 6 on one afternoon and I saw a taxi use it as a parking spot. They left the taxi and it was - so it's not having a lot. Bailey: Maybe they don't really understand taxi STANDS. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 (laughter) Wilburn: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Champion: Elliott: Johnson: O'Donnell: Champion: (laughter) Bailey: City Council Work Session Page 12 You know, I guess, any other comments or questions, but I suppose ifthere's a bottom line thing, is, I mean, point out who benefits, the taxis. But when I first heard about this, I mean, I had had questions over the last several years that I have been in Iowa City, people visiting or not knowing where to catch one, or they can't hail down one because they're always roaming closer to where the students are. So it was, for me the attraction was so that for the benefit ofthe public there was a known place. I know I can go here; otherwise I have to walk over to - Well and that's why I think we need to have better signs. I mean, not just, because the taxi stand signs don't look like a taxi stand. I mean they just look like - A sign. A sign, the no parking or parking sign. And there isn't for visitors, there are not signs directing them to where the taxi stands are. It's weird, because in any city you would go up to the hotel turnaround. That's exactly where you'd go to catch a cab. Right. And there's no guarantee there's going to be a taxi there, so, I mean, I think that would be more irritating to a guest to go over there and wait and never have a taxi show up, and everyone has cell phones now and you can call a taxi. I think we're providing free business space for taxi cabs and I'm for dropping the whole thing. It seems to me that everything, all the feedback we've had from the downtown merchants, they don't want it to happen until 10 or 11 o'clock. We hear from the police that after 10 or 11 o'clock the taxis don't use it much. Part of the dynamic of the customer base is that, is that there is such a large sort of exodus point at College and Clinton and at Dubuque and Washington that if a cab operator is gonna make some money, that's where they're going to go, and they'll utilize that far east lane of Clinton Street to pull up, pick up people, and get on their way. And from the perspective of our officers who are working the plaza, they like that, because it clears out the plaza. But that doesn't do a lot for someone who is looking to get a cab and goes to a cab stand and nothing shows up, so. The Downtown Association has been pleading with us to do away with these taxi stands, and I have not heard anything positive on them. I've been downtown not that late at night. I have a curfew of 8 0' clock. What, of 5? That isn't technically night. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 O'Donnell: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Champion: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Correia: City Council Work Session Page 13 But I've never seen a cab in one of them and I have seen cabs on Dubuque Street in the middle. I, I just, I really question the value of them and I agree with Connie, I'd like to do away with them. Well I'd just put out to the Council, you know, iffolks don't want to have it then let's, you know let's - I personally think that it was something worth trying. I think that it's a behavioral thing that eventually you would see more and more and less people showing up at a taxi stand and there not being one there. But it's also, the Downtown Association was aware of this in the beginning and they thought it was a good idea until they started getting complaints about it. I'd like to- So, you know, it's not worth it to me to continue to have Council discussing this if there's a majority who wishes to - Well I'd like to balance some interests. I think that, I do think that they're worthwhile having. I do think, I do think signage is an issue, and I don't know if the compromise is time or fewer. And, you know, if we go with fewer, why are parking spots in front of your business used and not mine, that kind of thing, I don't know. But maybe we could do some combination: I'm not sure. But I'd like, I'd like to keep them. I think it's worth it to keep them out of, to keep, to have fewer cabs in the middle of Dubuque Street and I do think it's good for the visitor, even though maybe you'd go over there and wouldn't. But at least - I don't know. I like it. Well I also wondered, I also wonder, if we have these kiosks in the plaza, in the ped mall, if we have one of the, or on each one, have one ofthe - Marked taxi stands. Yeah. And also has our current list of all of our regulated cab companies so if you don't find - With their registered phone numbers. With their registered phone numbers. So if you don't find them at a taxi stand- You can get that at any bar. If you're not - if I'm a visitor and I'm at the Atlas and I'm staying out in Coralville or wherever I'm staying. Yeah, or 126. At the bed and breakfast on Brown Street and I want to get a cab home - Walk, you slacker. I'm 70 years old. You know. I'mjust saying. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 14 Champion: That's not that old dear. (laughter) Correia: I don't want to walk after 10 pm. Wilburn: Well, Regenia would be willing to, with certain modifications, time or sign- Bailey: Is anybody else? Correia: I would be willing to modify the time. Bailey: I think it's a nice thing for downtown. I think it's a nice amenity and I think we should try and make it work rather than go backwards. Correia: (can't hear) spaces. Wilburn: That's three. Vanderhoef: Changing the time may work, but there is something about the free space that Connie is talking about where we're allowing them to use that area as a free space versus buying a space earlier, that we used to sell them. I know we don't have enough spaces quotes to sell for 18 or however many cab companies we have now. Correia: I think the issue is we provide free transportation with the shuttle to the downtown area to try and reduce people driving when they don't need to drive to our downtown. We don't charge on fee on those buses. We, and I think one of the purposes of having easy access to cabs is so people don't feel like they need to drive downtown because there's no way else to move around the city. Champion: They don't have easy access to cabs because there's not always a cab in the cab stand. And if you're in any restaurant in downtown Iowa City, they're more than happy to call you a cab and to let you know when it's there. So availability of cabs, there isn't a restaurant - I have friends who take cabs everywhere. They don't drive. They never have any problems when we're at a restaurant. They just ask the waiter to call up a cab and they do. So you know, to me - Bailey: Ijust think it's nice- Champion: They used to buy spaces or buy a space. Gosh, I don't know. Maybe I'd like a spot out in front of my store free for my customers so it's convenient for them. Wilburn: Is there a fourth member who is willing to continue with modifications? Bailey: So we're not going to have any taxi stands downtown? And they're going to go back and park in the middle of Dubuque Street? Champion: Well they do anyway. O'Donnell: That's exactly right. You know- This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Champion: O'Donnell: Bailey: O'Donnell: Bailey: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Elliott: Champion: Wilburn: Champion: (laughter) Wilburn: Bailey: City Council Work Session Page 15 They do it in the daytime too. This is downtown Iowa City, not Chicago. If you call a cab you can normally get one. Well if we keep on acting like that it's never gonna be anything close to Chicago, that's for sure. Well, Regenia, I think we may not see that in our lifetime where we see that - Well I'm gonna live a long time, Mike, lots longer than you. Is there a fourth - More, more luck to you. Is there a fourth Council member who is willing to continue this? I guess we'll have to prepare a repeal than for the next - Can we also send a letter to the Downtown Association to make sure that this is in the spirit of what they were asking for rather than go swing the pendulum all the way back and then say wait a minute, this is not what we wanted? I thought we had correspondence from them saying get rid of it. I read the letter, it was very clear. I thought they said change the time. I think when Craig Gustaveson was here he said repeal it, but if you're gonna keep it adjust the time. Ok. We'll prepare. That was a noble effort. It was. Firearms training. That's not the first bad decision I've made. Firearms training. Wasn't a bad decision. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 O'Donnell: (laughter) Bailey: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Bailey: City Council Work Session Page 16 Remember the chicanes. I liked those. Firearms training. We all knew you would. It was like an amusement park. Firearms Trainin2 Hargadine: Wilburn: Hargadine Wilburn: (laughter) We presently train with firearms on the Cedar Rapids P.D. range in Cedar Rapids. About a year ago they notified us and all of the neighboring jurisdictions that they were under a mandate to reduce noise. By noise it's the shooting. 20 years ago Cedar Rapids' range in a somewhat remote location, but since then they've developed around it, and the neighbors who built there are complaining to the Council that there's too much noise coming from Cedar Rapids' range. That has prompted discussion between myself and the sheriff, who I think was supposed to be here tonight but - and Coralville, North Liberty, U Heights - we all train there, and we're all in the same boat if we lose that site to be able to train. We have not been kicked off the range yet, but Johnson County, the sheriff has lost a range training day. They were asked not to come shoot on a particular day because an academy that was supposed to shoot also - if they're gonna shoot they want a lot of shooting to occur versus somebody shooting throughout the entire week, so that way they can at least maximize when there's noise going on. That has a lot of, if you lose that type of training day, there's a lot of planning that goes into sending our guys to Cedar Rapids. There's overtime. Just a lot of scheduling issues that when you lose a range day like that it's a big deal. We have been looking and talking for a long time. The sheriff and I are always, you know, why don't you buy it; no, why don't you buy it. That goes on on a routine basis. And then one of the conversations that we had, your guys are out in the County. I mean deputies, they're out looking and patrolling the entire County. If you see an ideal tract, have them forward it up to you and send it over to me. And about 2 Yz, 3 weeks ago, Lonnie called me and said that we've got a site, I think it's an ideal site. He took me out there to look at it and I would agree. We would love to partner with the Johnson County sheriff as well as other departments. The funding, we would be able to use seizure assets, drug forfeiture money, to pay for the land acquisition. What I'm requesting from you is the authority to allow for the manager to start entering negotiations for the acquisition of this parcel or any other parcel should this land not be suitable for the specific use of a training site. I have a dumb question. Sure. U sing seized drug - you mean money or you talking about something - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 17 Hargadine: Cash. Wilburn: Ok. All right. Bailey: That was just a smarty question wasn't it? Wilburn: I don't- Hargadine: I'm glad you asked. We've been very conservative with the funds that we have seized, the property that we've seized, and it's been liquidated. And that money is sitting in an account, and would be perfect for this type of a rainy day project. Elliott: What's forfeiture funding? Hargadine: Money that's been - usually when there's drugs carried through the County or the City. When drugs have been seized there's been cash with it. This, basically we're asking for the local drug dealers to fund this for us. Johnson: Vehicles that have been used in the commission of a crime are seized and forfeited. The proceeds from the sale of those vehicles then is distributed among all the agencies. Elliott: It goes right along with what Ross just asked. Johnson: Yeah. Vanderhoef: So what's the size ofa property that you need for something like this? Hargadine: Cedar Rapids has, they're utilizing 10 acres, and they're utilizing every inch of those 10 acres with a fence almost on that border. And that's not - we'd like to be able to expand a little bit. The tract that we're looking at is actually 40 acres, which is more than what we need. We'd probably use a minimum of20 of that and also incorporate a rifle range. Correia: Is it for sale? Hargadine: It is for sale. And it, we also need to point out it's- Bailey: Nicely done. Hargadine: The site that we're looking at, it's 14 12 miles from this building. It is this tract all the way around here. O'Donnell: Where's the cheese factory? Hargadine: Cheese factory? O'Donnell: Put it in perspective. I have no idea where it is. Hargadine: We could do that. Bailey: Where's Highway I? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Wilburn: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Bailey: Correia: Wilburn: Bailey: Hargadine: City Council Work Session Page 18 Highway 1, that's basically what you go out. Let me talk about this and then I'll back it out a little bit. We're talking about the part that comes off of Oval Yoder Road. This back part here is also connected to it, but we really don't have any plans to develop that. Right now the whole thing is being utilized as pasture land. This side over here is on a fairly steep hill. This part right around here is where we're talking about. Is that the nearest neighbor down in the corner? I believe it is. How far is it from that house? Probably a half mile. But - I'm not able to back out - as you can see, there's not much going on. I don't know that you could find another place in Johnson County that has this. This part here is where we would probably develop the ranges. Shooting in which direction. This long stretch right here. That would make for a nice rifle range, and this would probably be the handgun range. And you're not shooting towards that neighbor, right? Can you angle the microphone towards yourself? Sure. Can you do the outline of the whole area again that we would - The outline is this timberline all the way around here out to the road. So then why, why, since that house is, why wouldn't that range be the upper part farther away from that house? This is a very steep hill right here. This right here, this is all drainage area. Oh. Over that - This one right here? No. The one - No. All the way to the left. That open area to the left. This. I thought you said- You're saying why not use the open area. Why not use the area on the left. This up here is flat. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Correia: Wilburn: Hargadine: Correia: Atkins: Bailey: O'Donnell: Bailey: Wilburn: Correia: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Champion: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: City Council Work Session Page 19 Yeah. You'd be firing in. This is on a really steep hill. You want to do it on a steep hill. Microphone Sam. Yeah. Chief, you're not by the microphone. He needs a lavaliere. He's saying you would fire into the hill to help capture the rounds. Oh.Oh. Yeah. This we would probably excavate out in here so that we're actually firing into a dirt mound. So what's the - if we jointly own this with the sheriff s department, right, so there's some risk liability and also some environmental issues if we would ever clean up the site and sell it, correct? Yes. So talk about that. Well, what we'd probably do if we excavated this, this is gonna leave a lot ofleftover dirt. So we would pile it elsewhere on the property for dirt replacement. Ok. But are bullets still lead? I'm sorry? Yeah, what are they made out of? Are they still lead? Yes. I mean, so that would need to be cleaned up, right? But, we could - they don't go down more than a foot. Ok. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Dilkes: Bailey: Dilkes: Bailey: Hargadine: O'Donnell: Hargadine: Johnson: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Pulkrabek: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: City Council Work Session Page 20 So we could shave off the land. Got it. And then when we excavate this we're gonna keep it, we're not gonna sell off, so that land or that excavated dirt is what will go back in. And does this mean like we have to carry more insurance or some, does that expose us to additional risk because we own part of a? I mean, because this is ours and we're not using somebody else's? Our risk management would have to look at it. I don't know, but I, I suspect that we have sufficient insurance - Yeah, I would imagine. That this wouldn't increase our exposure. Exposure. Yeah. Kevin said he would have to insure it. It would be like any other City asset. Chief, how many times do we have to qualify a year? State minimum is once utilizing their course. We go twice a year for everyone and our special response team goes every other month. And this is a little bit closer than Cedar Rapids. The present deal is we pay $5.00 a head per day with Cedar Rapids. Which is, that's not much, considering. That's really not the issue. But if there was a jurisdiction that wanted. Oh there's the Sheriff. So you want a firing range? Yes ma'am, yes sir. So if there was an, if there was another agency in this County or not that wanted to utilize this facility and they didn't want to enter a partnership or 28E, we could do the $5.00 ahead, for instance, what we're doing now with Cedar Rapids. Or, our intent is to enter into a 28E. Ok. I think we're in a position, we as in the City, to utilize the seizure funds to purchase this, but with partnerships such as the Sheriff, Coralville, we could actually put some training buildings and gravel parking lots, that kind of thing. That's why we're hoping to get partners. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 21 Champion: How will you, will this be fenced in, or how do you keep - can the public use it? Hargadine: Good question. We've discussed- Champion: Make it a park? Bailey: Can we come shoot? Hargadine: Yeah, they're not hard to come by. (cut off - end of tape) Hargadine: I'm not sure I would recommend a rod and gun club for skeet shooting. I don't think we should open it for that, but something educational such as hunter safety, Boy Scouts. O'Donnell: It's a great idea. Hargadine: Those are things that we probably would be willing to open up for. Vanderhoef: Can you do archery? Hargadine: Excuse me? Vanderhoef: Archery? Correia: You can on the flat part. Hargadine: There's no reason why you couldn't. Bailey: You guys aren't going to start using arrows, right? Pulkrabek: I don't think so. Bailey: Ok. Hargadine: I suspect we'll have deputies and officers arguing over hunting rights, but we'll worry about that. Did you want to talk about discussions you've had with the supervisors? Correia: I have one quick question. In Cedar Rapids you talked about the developing, the developments getting closer. How close are they now? Bailey: Yeah, where are we? Correia: Do you know the nearest house to the Cedar Rapids range where people are complaining about noise? Pulkrabek: They're very close. Much, much closer. Hargadine: They're very close. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Bailey: Correia: Champion: Pulkrabek: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: Champion: City Council Work Session Page 22 What's the address again? 4705? Closer than Yz a mile? You need to talk into the microphone. Sorry. I don't want to push the Chief out of the way. He's doing good. Closer than a half a mile. Yes. 4703 Orville Yoder Turnpike Southwest. Would - I mean, I don't have any sense of a sound of a- Well, this being a hill. A hill, that's what I was going to ask you, if the hill - I think that's gonna actually push sound up. So it would be louder? Up so not out? It's a buffer. It's a buffer because of this hillside right here. If there was a - it's going to be louder here because this is the direction of the muzzle blast, versus somebody that lived over here. I'm trying, there's a current house right there right? Yeah. How loud will it be for them? They'll be able to hear it. It won't be loud as in obnoxiously loud, but they'll be able to tell that there's gunshots going off. And this will be daytime hours, right? Monday through? Or not. You can have a night shoot, but generally we have a gentleman's agreement that you don't shoot after 10:00. But in the wintertime it's easy to qualify at night after 6 pm. And so are we going to use sort of a good neighbor approach and talk to this? Absolutely. I've already contacted a couple of them. Ok. And response? They like the idea. Oh. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 23 Bailey: Because? Hargadine: One of them utilizes this as pasture and he's wanting to talk about this. Bailey: Oh, so. Funding. Hargadine: So first off we've got to acquire it. But for instance, ifhe were to use it as pasture land and agreed to mow the rest of it, we could talk. O'Donnell: Great idea. What do you need tonight Chief? Because this really sounds like a good idea. Hargadine: Authority for the manager to proceed. Champion: Oh sure. O'Donnell: I think it's a good idea. Vanderhoef: Let's hear the Supervisor's story. Bailey: Yeah, let's hear where you guys are. Pulkrabek: Well of course I only talked to them informally, one at a time, personally. They all said it seems like a good use of the property. They're all well aware ofthe problems that's going on in Cedar Rapids, and they didn't obviously sign off, but they all seemed supportive in that informal setting. And they thought it was just another great idea where the different entities can sort of share resources and work together on an opportunity such as we are for the joint dispatch. Correia: Are there any land use planning or zoning or any? Pulkrabek: Well it would, yeah, it would have to be zoned P public and then a public entity can use it for whatever they wish. Now the other thing that's important about this land, and I apologize for being a few minutes late, but I don't know if Sam addressed it, but this property has a CSR rating, a corn suitability rating of zero, which means it's only good for pasture. And I know the Board of Supervisors looks at that when they're going through zoning things, so I think this is a good opportunity. And you know, somebody was talking about the sound. I think with it being down low and you build your berms; because they're, more than likely I would guess - I'm not a D & R expert on lead and land, but more than likely there will probably be, probably be multiple berms, because you want a berm that will catch it, catch the lead and then be eventually rebuilt after so long where the lead is recaptured and then rebuilt. But with that in the natural lay of it, the sound is going to go up. Of course as Sam talked about, the sound is going to be louder for the residents up here that it's that direction, but still I don't believe it will be very loud, but the sound is going up instead of out. Where in Cedar Rapids even though you have the berms, it's still fairly flat, and so the sound goes out. Bailey: And so when there's training going on in such a property do you notice people around or do they just generally know the use of the property is this firing range and so they're not This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Hargadine: Bailey: Hargadine: O'Donnell: Hargadine: O'Donnell: Correia: Hargadine: Correia: Pulkrabek: Champion: Hargadine: Champion: Hargadine: Bailey: Champion: Hargadine: Bailey: Pulkrabek: Bailey: Pulkrabek: Champion: Hargadine: City Council Work Session Page 24 Cedar Rapids, that range has been there for decades so when they hear it they're used to it. So people around will be noticed that this is going to be a firing range so when they hear gunfire they're not concerned or annoyed. Right. How often is that going to be used do you think? I think between just the County agencies quite a bit. I mean daily or is it? Like how many times a week? We're always up in Cedar Rapids, not to mention- Always, every day? I can't imagine that it would be every day, but I think there will be frequent use, particularly because it's now an available resource, one that we have the ability to control access to where we don't. How do we limit access? How do you limit access to it? A big fence. A big fence. At least around the area where the firearms are. It would be too costly I think to put a fence around the entire property. Sure. Right. But you could around the buildings, the parking lots and the immediate firing area. You'd want to. I would suspect we'd want to alarm those. Yes. An intrusion alarm. I was worried about somebody walking in front of you. That's - we've all had that training, I mean, that's just not done. That's a party foul. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 25 Vanderhoef: I would presume with buildings that you're talking about then bringing water to this site. Bailey: Is there a well on site? Hargadine: I think there is a well. Vanderhoef: Is there? That was going to be my next question. Hargadine: And we have the, we've had our Public Works Department rough some things out. For instance, I know how much a butler building or something like that would - ballpark gravel, parking lot. Bailey: What are we talking ballpark for the direction you want to go, with the fence and parking lot, building, and the land, of course. Hargadine: It somewhat depends on what this land sells for. Bailey: Right. Hargadine: And- Bailey: What's the range for CSR zero? Hargadine: Well right now it's listed at $6200 an acre, which is very high. Vanderhoef: It's high. Bailey: That's optimistic. Pulkrabek: That's building site costs out in the County. Elliott: $6200? Pulkrabek: If you want to develop it, that's what land out in the County would normally sell for that's somebody is gonna eventually develop. O'Donnell: That's actually a good buyout in the County. Dilkes: It's probably gonna be important to know what the County's land use plan is for that area. I mean, so we don't run into the same problem that Cedar Rapids is having. I mean, people are wanting to sell it as development land. Is there potential for development out there or what? Hargadine: Well, one of the things that I have not brought up yet, but this is the site where Jetseta Gage was murdered. Champion: What? Wilburn: Jetseta Gage was murdered. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 26 Hargadine: So one ofthe things we've kicked around is maybe having it, naming it the Jetseta Gage Training - I mean, we haven't really formalized anything like that, but it's an option we thought about. Bailey: Hmmm. So - Elliott: Sam, you're talking about - excuse me. Bailey: I, I just want to go back to the build out. Elliott: Go ahead. Bailey: Because you have a sense of that cost, setting the land costs aside, do you have a sense of build out costs? Hargadine: On the high side it was $500,000.00. If money were- Bailey: And we have assets to that degree that we could foresee that? Hargadine: We have roughly $300,000.00 set aside and then we're talking about partnerships for the rest. Champion: Or a lot of drug busts coming up. Correia: Land can be about a quarter - Vanderhoef: So we can buy land and somebody else can help with the buildup. Bailey: But that can phase in too, right? Hargadine: This doesn't have to be done all at one time obviously. Bailey: Right. Hargadine: Getting heavy equipment out there is expensive, so you probably want to get as much excavation as you can get once you get that equipment out there. But as far as buildings and we've got the next 20 years hopefully to develop it. Bailey: So this is a 20 year site? Hargadine: I'm hoping much longer than that. Vanderhoef: Permanent. Bailey: Lonny, I didn't mean to interrupt; Ijust wanted to make sure. Elliott: Pardon me? Vanderhoef: I'm much in favor of this. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 27 Dilkes: Well if you just let me, just briefly, you'll see this as you know when we purchase- when the City Manager negotiates for the purchase of land we include a contingency in the purchase agreement that it's subject to City Council approval, so those kinds of details you obviously will have approval of. Bailey: Right. Wilburn: Bob, you had a question? Elliott: I was just going to say from the looks on the photo, and you can't see it very well now, but it appears to be, that's, looks like what, fairly heavy timber or is it brush? Hargadine: That's timber. Elliott: It's timber? Hargadine: Uh huh. Elliott: That certainly muffles a lot of sound down there and particularly if you have a ridge. And as years go by you can place even more timber to muffle more and greater sounds. Hargadine: Sure. If this were excavated out here, than you could finish planting trees up in here to further dampen the noise. Elliott: Yeah. Sounds good. Vanderhoef: I feel sorry to put dairy cows on that pasture and then shoot guns all day. Hargadine: Well, more than likely it would be fenced right off in here if we were gonna retain this for some type of pasture. Vanderhoef: The noise. Wilburn: Council wanting to authorize - Bailey: 1- Vanderhoef: Absolutely. I think this is a marvelous idea. Bailey: I like this project. Vanderhoef: Thank you gentlemen for putting this proposal together. Hargadine: Thank you. Bailey: Thanks. Elliott: We had unanimity on 2 out of those 3. That's pretty good for us. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 28 Vanderhoef: Whoa. Ok. Bailey: Ijust want to learn how to shoot. Correia: You do. Wilburn: Ok. All right. That was the last of yours, right Chief? Ok. Why don't we take a, take 10 and go ahead and get something to eat. Come back and start with the scheduled City Manager recruitment. Elliott: We have something to eat? (break) Schedule City Mana2er Recruitment Wilburn: Atkins: (laughter) Elliott: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Champion: The next item up is scheduling time to discuss the City Manager recruitment process, so I'd asked folks to bring their calendars tonight and I didn't have a chance to copy this off for you all but if you could bear with me just to throw out a few things that we'll need to consider at that meeting as you're digging your calendars out. There are several decisions that we will have to make along the way. One is do we use a recruiting firm? Do we consider a request for proposal process or do we just gather some consulting firms, take a look at and select from them? If we do a RP process, time to review those. If we're just gonna use a consultant time for interviewing those, selecting a consultant. If we do use the consultant, some additional things that they can take us through are just kind of that brainstorming thing about what are we looking for in a City Manager. I presume we would also be as part of that discussion taking a look at, you know, the contract that we have with, with Steve and deciding if those are the types of things and duties that we wish to have, continue to have. We'll need to decide process questions as part of the process. Open or closed, how we're gonna, how or if we're gonna use citizen involvement and types of interviews. In the meantime we will have to, Steve will be done around the 151 of August. We will need to name an acting City Manager. Sounds like I'm fully cooked. Medium rare. Oh you just wait. Yeah. You just wait. We'll have to select an acting City Manager. We do have Dale as Assistant City Manager. In some ways it seems logical to go ahead and appoint Dale as acting interim City Manager. He, didn't he do that before? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Elliott: Champion: Wilburn: Bailey: Wilburn: Helling: Wilburn: Helling: (laughter) City Council Work Session Page 29 He did do it before, mm hmm. And, but I don't want to drive the discussion here. There are other communities that will hire their City Attorney. I doubt that Eleanor would be interested in serving as acting City Manager - as she shakes her head no. But clearly Dale is a very competent person and would do more than adequate in an interim role. I have no idea ifhe would be interested in applying for the position, but our immediate step, we would need to appoint an acting City Manager. We'd need to talk about those additional duties, what type of compensation we would have for Dale. Even some logistical things, back to the search process itself. Do we begin immediately after this discussion where we talk about the process? Do we wait to start some actual search type activities? For, after November, for, so the next City Council could be included in that? And then there's some external factors that would, that could, that will potentially impact who is gonna be applying for the process, applying for the position. That being, the immediate one is the Charter, the Charter issues. The court ruling, we still don't have that. We've made arguments to the Supreme Court, but we're on their, on their schedule - I mean, they'll let us know when they make a ruling on that. Otherwise, I wasn't necessarily seeing us having a full discussion tonight, but what I was thinking, again to throw out a final thing, we do have a meeting set already for July 2nd for the staff evaluations. It seems to me that would be a logical time to, again, talking about what process we wish to use. It'll be daytime, we'll have fresh brains - theoretically. As fresh as they get. As fresh as they get. So, but that July 2nd again would be a time when we could talk through these or other issues. I would also foresee if the Council would decide to appoint Dale as the, as the interim City Manager, we could even have a, I suppose it would be done by resolution, and that resolution could be done even at our, not tomorrow's meeting, but our next July meeting with an effective date of August whatever. So otherwise I'll just open it up. I think we should do that with Dale. I hope. That's the easiest decision we make. Should we ask Dale? I have not, I have not gotten confirmation with Dale. I think we need to have a discussion with him. Dale is here. I suppose you could - it wouldn't be off the, since this is on here, we could probably ask him ifhe's interested, ok? Dale? In the interim? In the interim. I, yeah, I think that's probably something I should do. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 30 Correia: Should do or want to do? Bailey: Thank you. Champion: You know, I know we're going to discuss this, but I can tell you that we should, I mean, I would think we'd have to use a consulting firm, otherwise your applications are going to be - and I think you probably, and Ross maybe you could just stick around a little bit, I think we interview 3 consulting firms and they will tell you what you should do, what they would want from you. They will lead you through the process. And so for us to talk about the process is ridiculous, because that's their job. Their job is to help you decide what your process is going to be. Bailey: But I think there needs to be some level of commitment about how, not if, from my opinion, about how we will use citizens. Champion: Oh sure, I agree, I agree. Bailey: Cedar Rapids had a really good model. I think there's an opportunity to learn from their experience, both ups and downs. Champion: Exactly. Bailey: I know you've talked to Mayor Halloran about- Wilburn: Yeah, I've already, I've received at least as far as the open house they had, that final day of interviews for all the candidates, their open house, all the finalists came and there was both interviews with department heads and the public were there. Bailey: I was very impressed with their model. Very impressed. Wilburn: So I have that information. We're also, in Marian's office, we're collecting information. Some is being sent, like data that we received from Cedar Rapids. I've already had one consultant call and express an interest in being considered if we do an RFP process or just to be considered in the selection process. Bailey: And why wouldn't we consider an RFP process? Vanderhoef: Well I think we really ought to be doing an RFP process, because in that we can outline some of these things that we specifically expect the company to do and then that gives them a choice whether that's different than their usual process. Then they can choose whether they want to apply for - Bailey: It's an open call. We can, I think it's a good process. Wilburn: I believe last time that they, I don't believe they used a formal RFP, but they did consider several of the larger firms and have a discussion. They went through that motion but it wasn't a formal RFP. I suppose one, if Council felt pressed for this, potential drawback is just time, it takes time to do that. Bailey: Then use the time to do it right and I think - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 31 W ilburn: Yeah, and !think - Vanderhoef: But interviewing, there's a number of good companies out there. I've just been going through the same kind of a process and interviewed 5 companies that are national scope kind of companies. They're finding an executive director for the Iowa League. It's a crossover with the number of the same kinds of people that would be applying for City Managers because that's, that's where our pool comes from. Champion: There are lots of good consultants (can't hear) - Vanderhoef: Yeah. Bailey: Well that's another reason to do an RFP rather than a consultant. Vanderhoef: And it was, we didn't do a whole big call, but we selected 5 companies within the steering committee and said let's send them to those 5. And then we interviewed 3 of them. Champion: And the, I think we're going to be hampered time-wise, so I think we have to kind of do it when you want to do it, because until we get that court hearing, that sort of thing. Bailey: Well, and I think what you said about the timing after the election, I think, I personally think the City expects us to act as the leaders now, not a wait and see. Champion: I agree. Bailey: But I think it will span the election, I mean, giving what we're talking. If we're talking an RFP process and proceeding in sort of an orderly fashion. It mayor may not, but I think it will. Vanderhoef: The RFP response time after we sent it to the companies, we had our response back in 1 week. So, and then we set up interview time - Bailey: Because we don't know that (can't hear) Vanderhoef: There's just so many of them and they have this kind of information ready to go, basically. Champion: They do. Elliott: Search firms, that's what they do. They already have people on the sheet and- Bailey: So turnaround time is not - Correia: For them, but the process for us is then, selecting and- Bailey: Right. I mean, I don't think we need to be that tight, a week. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Elliott: Champion: Elliott: Champion: Elliott: Champion: Wilburn: Champion: Elliott: Wilburn: Elliott: Bailey: Champion: Wilburn: Bailey: Elliott: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 32 What I plan to do Ross is to get some suggestions and observations on paper to you and I would, from me personally, I would like to have the same thing from other people. So beforehand we can tell what other people are looking for. What, what kinds, what kinds of ways do we want to tweak what already exists for our priorities, and what different things might we be looking for than we already have. Are you talking about looking for in a City Manager or the consultant? Yes, yes. So I want to put some of those on paper - For the consult- And if any of you would like to do that I would be happy to look at yours. The consultant is going to ask you for that. When you have your chosen consultant they're going to ask for that. What are you looking for. What are you looking for. What is the public looking for. Yes. They will be helpful in running us through that, but there are steps that we need to go through that we need to be aware of, and I think one of those first steps is deciding what we need depending on what we are looking for in a City Manager and what impact that position will have on the City. And the search firm will help us go through that in an effective and productive manner. I think you're saying the same thing, it's just Connie is saying our immediate duty is to get that search firm so that then the next step is beginning. Mmm hmm. Although it is the philosophy of how you work with a consultant and what the role is. And I think we lead the process and they facilitate it, not they lead us. We, I mean, I think that - Of course. They'll want to know what it is we want. And we know we're gonna have that discussion some way or another. Yep. Let's see. Another part of that discussion with the consultant or firm would be, you know, do we want to, this gets related back in some way to the openness or not of it. Is the Council going to be doing a lot of the initial work with the consultant? Do you want to use a search committee that would include members of the public? Those are the types of things that we would need to - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 33 Vanderhoef: To flush out. Wilburn: Yes. Vanderhoef: What, what all of the consultants that we interviewed said 60 to 90 days after we had that initial with us of what we were looking for. Bailey: Pardon me? I didn't hear anything you said. Vanderhoef: 60 to 90 days until they have a hire. From - Bailey: Well, I - Vanderhoef: From, from that time line. Wilburn: I think, I think that's, that's really gonna vary depending on the search. Bailey: Our availability. Wilburn: Certainly I had a different experience with the University, even with the first round was the better part - I think I blocked part of it out, but it was the better part of 6 to 8 months before we even got, you know, to the point where we were close to making a decision. If I'm not mistaken, I believe, Steve, wasn't it about 4 to 6 months when you were hired last time? Atkins: I believe Neil left in early March and it was late July when I arrived. So March, April, May, June, July - it was almost 5 months. Wilburn: Ok, so, and it was almost 5 months. And Dale, were you acting for about 5, acting City Manager, not to say acting. (laughter) Helling: Yes I was and I think the process actually started before, before Neil left, so you have to factor that in if you're looking from now on out. Bailey: February. Vanderhoef: February. Correia: Starting February. Helling: Yeah. Wilburn: Ok. So otherwise, does that make sense for the Council to just look at July 2nd? Bailey: Do you want us to block off a longer period oftime on July 2nd. Wilburn: I think we've already blocked off or sort ofblocked off 9 to noon. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 34 Karr: 9: 15 to noon. Wilburn: 9:15 to noon. Bailey: That's what I have. Do we anticipate that we want additional time is my question. Wilburn: We can always go as far as we can up until noon, pick another, you know, come prepared with calendars that day to meet again to talk about what we don't get covered. Bailey: I think that's going to be one of the challenges with the process, is scheduling. Wilburn: Just getting the time to - Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. Correia: Well I think, if we could, if we could maybe on the 2nd schedule regular times. Bailey: That would be great. Correia: The 3rd Thursday, or whatever - Bailey: I hate those kind of regular times, but ok. Karr: I just wanted to note if you were looking at it that in June I have 3 days I have 7 people in town. In June. Vanderhoef: In June. Karr: In July, pardon me. Elliott: In July. Ok. Karr: In July. Unless some of your schedules have changed from when you notified me, but 2nd, 3rd, and then the 9th and 10th for your regular meetings. After that I've got the rest of the month that some - there isn't anyone day that 7 of you are in town. Bailey: Do we tack onto regular meetings? Vanderhoef: Ok. I could not on the 3rd, but I could do- Bailey: We're not scheduling now, right? Correia: We're not scheduling it now. Vanderhoef: I think we had better block those days out. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 35 Correia: On the 2nd. Wilburn: The 2nd is what we were talking about. Elliott: We're going to need more than one meeting. Vanderhoef: The 2nd, but I think we ought to be blocking 9 and 10 if those are the only 2 days that are available for the month of July. Correia: I can't meet during the day on the 9th or the 10th but I could meet later on the 9th or the 10th after our meetings. Bailey: I have a little bit more flexibility. Elliott: Marian, did you say the 2nd, 3rd and 4th or the 3rd and 4th or the 2nd and 3rd? Karr: Well the 2nd, 3rd_ Bailey: The 4th is technically a holiday. Karr: The 4th is July 4th. Elliott: Oh, yes, I seem to remember that. Bailey: One we should all take. Karr: There's a possibility, Eleanor's gone, but the week of the 16th is some latitude in it. But I don't know times; Ijust know days that you're out of town. Dilkes: I think we also need to consider the availability of Sylvia, because I assume that she'll be the staff person who is developing the RFP and working with you on that, so I don't think it makes a lot of sense probably to talk in detail about what you want in that RFP ifshe's not here. Wilburn: Right. And Sylvia will not be here on the 2nd, but Marian could have access to her calendar if we can't pick a- Elliott: The only thing is I'd like to have a professional with as we're discussing, certainly as we move toward making any decisions. Have a professional with us reminding us some things perhaps we haven't discussed and some things perhaps that she needs to straighten us out on. Champion: I mean what do we want in this RFP? I guess that's what we'll discuss on the 2nd. Wilburn: Yes. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Bailey: Correia: Wilburn: Mejia: Wilburn: Mejia: Wilburn: Karr: Wilburn: Karr: Bailey: Karr: Bailey: Karr: Bailey: Karr: Bailey: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 36 Yes. Are there sample RFPs? I mean there must be an - Ah, Sylvia, could you come up to the microphone? Thank you, and thanks for coming tonight. I suspect you have some materials or have dug for some materials or found them in the archives of sample calls for proposals, those type of things? No there was no request for proposal for the last time, so we'll be starting a new one. Ok. Starting, yeah. In terms of schedule, just so you are aware, I am out of town from the end of June until- I will be back on the 10th of July. You'll be back on the 10th of July. Ok. And Marian, can you, I'm sorry, can you refresh our memories. After the 10th, were there any days where all 7 of us - Can I back up 1 second? Sure you can. Is there any, I have no one gone, according to my calendar, next week, the 26th or the 2ih. I didn't know if you wanted to start it that soon, but that, those two dates, that would match before Sylvia's departure as well. I'm gone. Oh, on which one? The evening of the 26th into the 27th? Yes. Didn't you have that? I thought you had that. No. But I'm just guessing when you say you're gone it's Wednesday which one it IS. Yep, that's pretty much it. So the daytime of the 26th and then ifnot, if that doesn't work, then I can go into after that. I can go in the afternoon but not the morning, and that would be iffy. The afternoon of the 26th? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Bailey: Wilburn: Bailey: Karr: Wilburn: Karr: Vanderhoef: Karr: Wilburn: O'Donnell: Bailey: (laughter) City Council Work Session Page 37 Yeah, that's gonna be hard. We have an event that day. And what did you say about the 27th? Gone. 27th she's gone. Ok. So then after the 10th? Well the 28th, what's? The 28th Sylvia is gone. Ifit was between Sylvia's time frame, then the 28th to the 10th, so we'd be. I mentioned those two dates before her departure. We'd be looking after the 10th. That's why, I think I understand not wanting to get into details about some of the actual human resource stuff without Sylvia, but it would seem to me that on the 2nd, in addition to everybody by the 2nd having updated your calendars with Marian, that we could talk about I mean even just the issue of Council members' feelings about open/closed process, totally open, totally closed - I mean, those are the types of discussions I think we could still have on the 2nd. That makes a great deal of sense. Are there any other things that you think we could discuss without professional guidance on the 2nd? Atkins: You have to be careful. Bailey: Yes. Mejia: I believe that you need, you know, your idea of whether you're going to have an open or closed process is certainly something. I think what I would need to be aware of is what you're looking for in terms of what you want in an RFP if I'm going to be involved in preparing it. Bailey: Sure. Vanderhoef: I could share with you the one that we just used, the RFP that we just used for the State Executive Director. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 38 Bailey: Do you know of other cities who have recently done this with an RFP process? You would have the best - Mejia: That's something I could find out. Bailey: Yeah. And also Dee has - Vanderhoef: That I don't know. Wilburn: Ah, Cedar Rapids I believe they just used a, they just used an individual consultant. Mejia: I do know that last time I was not personally involved in it but my recollection is that there was not an RFP process, that there was just an interview with I believe 3 search firms who the Council picked. Karr: I believe we did letters of interest type of thing. Staff narrowed it. Bailey: Oh ok. Mejia: I was not involved until we actually brought the candidates in and that's when my involvement started. Wilburn: And we've already had one, has that letter of interest arrived? Mejia: I received a phone call from a firm. I don't know if you received anything else Marian. Karr: I have some data from a firm - I don't know if it's the same. Mejia: I think it's probably the stuff! sent you. Karr: No, I got it from Ross. Vanderhoef: I've had a firm mention to me that they're interested. It may be the same one. I don't know. Wilburn: I've actually had a candidate call me, so. O'Donnell: I did too. Wilburn: But otherwise I think Council could at least have a general conversation about some of those other items that I talked about. Mejia: I think that would be a good idea to get started. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Wilburn: Correia: Mejia: Bailey: Mejia: Correia: Wilburn: Bailey: Elliott: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 39 Yeah, just to get ourselves going and then we can update our calendars. By then Dee can bring that information that day and we can just take a look, just to kind of prime the pump so that we can get ourselves to ask Sylvia some harder questions. A very basic question, but do we have a job description? Are we going off a job description? Yes we do have a job description. Yeah we have a job description. It was rewritten about a year ago. I know we have one, but is that something that we can all get before the 2nd? Yeah, so we can have that at the meeting on the 2nd and then again we can have some general discussions about that. All right. So we'll continue with that on the 2nd. Thank you Sylvia. Thanks. 9:15, right. Yes. That's correct. Senior Center Renovations Atkins: Morris: That's, excuse me, that's my item. I apologize for not having anything in your packet. So we're going to have a late handout. Kumi is going to be passing that out to you right now. We had planned to amend the capital improvement budget and in doing so we were just trying to get caught up in some of the projects that we have been working on, one of which is something of some consequence, and that is investments in the Senior Center. I'm going to hand out a very rough budget. I'd like to have Kumi and Linda walk you through what we're thinking about doing, putting together a capital improvement plan or program around this. Before we go to all the work I just want to, it's sort oflike reviewing a capital project, it's simply out of sequence, but again, with the fact that we're not going to do the Highway 6 project, that opens up some bonded and debtedness possibilities. You don't have to do it, but this is a project that I believe has some merit and so Kumi, go - tell them what the projects are about. Well what we're looking at are actually 4 projects that we're bringing to you and they all involve some type of restoration or repair at the Senior Center. The first that I have listed is the boiler/chiller project. Right now what we have is a 26 year- old boiler and about an approximately 26 to 30 year-old chiller, this air handling unit on top of the building. We're looking to replace both units. That This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 40 also involves replacing four main air handler units and associated digital controls. The other, and we can see that the total with, with consulting fees is about 700, excuse me $711,750.00. The second item that I have listed is the roof replacement project. We have a cost estimate for that of$129,500.00. That includes, that also includes the consultant fees. We have, the roof that' s presently on the Senior Center is, was constructed in 1987, so it's about a 20 year-old roof. The maintenance was over in 15 years, so it's beyond 5 years beyond its maintenance and warranty. And it's about 8,200 square feet. And it's two roofs: we have an upper roof and a lower deck area. And this repair work also involves tuck pointing and parapet repair around the top part of the Senior Center. The third item we're still getting estimates on is a water main project repair. That's actually outside of the Senior Center to the south of the facility into the main line of the City. There was some leaking within the water main line and so we're looking at repairing that and that's something that's more immediate but it's not a consequence in terms of having to go in any particular order with the other repairs, so that can occur at any time. The last item that I have listed, which is probably the most urgent of the four is the ADA restrooms, modifications. There is also, that would include renovations of ground floor restrooms, which presently are closed due to some mold and moisture issues from deterioration of pipes, old cast iron pipes, as well as including two shower rooms. Right now the lower level is the, has fitness areas for Senior Center participants and we're looking at including showers that have been something that has been requested in the past. As well as, this also includes public restrooms on the first floor, mezzanine and as well, second floor. O'Donnell: How many restrooms total? Morris: 13, 13 restrooms altogether. Right now they do not meet the ADA guidelines as per code. Correia: Those are all current restrooms that will be renovated. Morris: That is correct. Elliott: 13 restrooms, and how many people are usually in the building? Morris: Probably a Linda question. Elliott: Oh, before you turn it over to her - Morris: Sure. Elliott: Did you mention a consultant with the roof replacement? Morris: That's correct. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 41 Elliott: Why? Morris: Well, it's to put together the drawings and also we're looking at tuck pointing and an amount, a great amount of repair for moisture issues that are currently occurring with the present roof system. Elliott: I guess that's because I don't know much about that, but it seems we have an engineering staff and you hire somebody to put on a new roof and do tuck pointing and why the consultant? Morris: Well, we don't have, we don't have a staff person that's a certified roofing engineer and so that's something that we would hire out. And generally, like for example when we replaced the transit facility roof, we've hired a consultant to do that as well. To put together the drawings and - Elliott: Can't you just hire somebody, put out bids, and say we need a new roof? Correia: Like a design person, is that what you're saying? Atkins: That's what the consultant does. Morris: Right, the design - what we would do is have them put together a design that we would bid, that we would use to bid it out. Correia: It's not the same thing as putting a roof on your house. Morris: Right. No it's not. Atkins: If I had said architectural engineering firm would that have been a little more helpful? No. Did I use the c word? Elliott: No, I just think we have firms that know how to do that sort of thing. Correia: Staff. Elliott: We have firms that know how to do it and we have staff engineers. Well, go ahead. Everybody seems to think we need a consultant so. Champion: Well we don't have any roof engineers. Engineers have pretty specialized - Elliott: Yeah. I'm just wondering, you know - 13 restrooms. There must be a whole lot of people who need 13 restrooms. Kopping: Well they went through, they being Kumi and Neumann Monson, went through a pretty prolonged evaluation of building usage and how many restrooms we were required to have and that would be a Kumi question. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 42 Morris: Right. Sure. We have, actually, we're, by renovating, by including and renovating 13 restrooms we're just meeting what code requires for that type of facility, for the multi-use facility. Elliott: Maybe I need to, I'm thinking 13 different rooms in which you have toilet facilities? Morris: No, no, no - I'm sorry. 13 toilets, it's 13 toilets, 13 stalls, sorry. Yes, 13 stalls all through the building. Correia: 13 stalls. Elliott: Ok. But you said restrooms and I thought what do we need 13 restrooms for. Correia: There's a lot of rest rooms in that building. Champion: I didn't think 13 restrooms were so outrageous, but now it's only 13 stalls and then I look at this price of $224,000.00 - I find that kind of alarming, actually. I mean I could see with older (can't hear) bathrooms a long time. Kopping: It includes shower rooms too. Bailey: Which will have to be built I'm assuming shower rooms, there's not a space for them right now? Morris: That's correct. There aren't any showers. Bailey: So what space will be taken for those? Kopping: The space that will be used for that is currently the kitchen on the ground floor level. And that room will be partitioned off and there will be two shower stalls installed that will be for men or women - unisex, that was the word. Elliott: There you go. Kopping: Yeah, thank you. It's a space that's really not heavily utilized right now and- Bailey: The meeting room space where we used to meet for JCCOG. Kopping: It's not the meeting room space. It's only the kitchen area space. Bailey: Oh, that's pretty small. Kopping: Yeah. I think it'll extend out about 3 feet from there into the room from the counter. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 43 Bailey: Ok. Kopping: But it's a minimum of space to provide two shower rooms. Bailey: Two shower. Ok. O'Donnell: I asked- Correia: Well you said - O'Donnell: Excuse me - I asked a question earlier. How many bathrooms are there there? How many restrooms? You said 13 out of 4? Is that right? 4 individual rooms? Kopping: One, ah - Bailey: One on each floor, right? Kopping: There's 7, and there will be, there would be two additional with this, because there will be a restroom in each of the shower stalls. Correia: You said there were requests for showers in the past? Has there been a survey of the membership or anything like that to get, you know, have a couple people wanted showers? I'm just wondering - I have a friend who uses the Senior Center and she goes to the exercise class. I can't imagine that she would ever want to use the shower at the Senior Center. But I'm just - Kopping: Well most of our requests have come from people who are looking at the Senior Center considering joining and they've asked us for two things. One is the weight room which we're addressing this year and the other is shower space so that they can use the facilities, the senior facilities before they go to work or after they go to work. Correia: It's primarily (can't hear) crowd? Kopping: That's true. However, when we had to, were compelled to tear up the downstairs bathroom and close them completely, both of them, I had several people who take afternoon fitness classes email me and request the shower stalls be installed on the ground floor at this time as long as we were redoing everything. Vanderhoef: Well I think there's more and more attention being paid to private businesses in every place looking at shower stalls. Ifwe're truly going to use our trail system and commute on bicycles at times there's- Bailey: But this isn't open to general public. I mean, it would be different ifit were in like a rec center but it's the Senior Center so 50, membership is 50 and above. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 44 Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. O'Donnell: Well, but there's a workout room and- Vanderhoef: Right. No, it makes sense. Bailey: There's also - I don't know. Kopping: There's a freestanding exercise equipment room that has aerobic equipment. We have a room that's used for dance instruction and tai chi and weight training, and then we will also have the weight resistance training room down there all on the ground floor. Champion: I think if you have exercise equipment you need showers. O'Donnell: I think the showers make sense. Bailey: But it's duplication of a City service that we have a block and a half away. I mean perhaps, once again, going back to the sharing concept of doing senior programming at the rec center where we already have some of those facilities. Not necessarily saying it has to be open to the general public, but programming that meets that need would, I think, better use resources that we already have downtown. And parking is available there, that's always a concern you hear about the Senior Center. I mean, people aren't really riding their bikes. They're wanting to park in the ramp. So that's my question. Why are we, why are we duplicating City resources that we already have a block and a half away? Kopping: We had a practicum student at the Senior Center over the course of the '07 - '08 (cut off - end of tape) Kopping: They like working out with their peers and not having to contend with, not contend, or not have - Champion: Compete. Kopping: Well, I don't even want to use that word. It's just sort of uncomfortable when you're 50 or 60 - Bailey: Or inspiring. Atkins: Inspiring. Kopping: Yeah. And there are 18 year-olds running around who are, you know - it sort of gives you a little bit of a complex. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 45 Vanderhoef: J azzercise looks different after 50. Kopping: Yes it does. (laughter) Bailey: How many, how many members were in the focus group? That was a pretty small number as I recall, 23 or something. Kopping: 1'd have to check for sure. 1'd have to - it would be a complete guess on my part. I don't know. I can't recall exactly. Elliott: To me, I think, I think we started discussing it one time and I'm not sure we ever had a full discussion on whether or not we want to have one stop shopping for the senior center or whether we need to make maximum use of the facilities we have and if you want to use weights and exercise to the point where you're sweating and need a shower it's the rec center. If you want to do other things, I'd like to see those things a little more integrated if we could, but I think it deserves a discussion and whatever - O'Donnell: I think they need their individuality. You know, the Senior Center is for a certain group of people who have reached a certain age. Bailey: Of 50. Excuse me, that's not that old. O'Donnell: Well, that's a matter of opinion. Bailey: I guess. O'Donnell: But I think it makes a great deal of sense if you work out you want to work out with your peers and you know I, for somebody to go through a strenuous workout and throw on a parka to go run over to the Rec Center to take a shower I think is absurd. Bailey: Well that's my point. Elliott: I'm just wondering if we can, can we afford this? Bailey: Yeah, and I don't think we've had that discussion, and I think that's an important discussion to have. We have - Elliott: I'd like to have that discussion anyway. O'Donnell: It depends on how much you value the Senior Center is what it depends on. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 46 Wilburn: Go ahead Amy. Correia: Is the Senior Center Foundation able to participate in - I mean, I've added up what we have here is a million dollars. And we don't have the water main project yet. Kopping: It's, the Senior Center Foundation has typically not been used for facility improvements. However I have discussed this with the Board of the Iowa City Senior Center Fund, Inc. and there was tentative agreement that they would be willing to pay up to $50,000.00 which coincidentally would cover the cost of the 2 shower rooms. Champion: Perfect. Vanderhoef: Perfect. Bailey: Not perfect. It's still- I still think we need a broader discussion. Wilburn: Well, what do you need to hear from Council tonight? Correia: And so we're saying that the proposal is to fund out of our bonding capacity? Atkins: Yes. What I, what I wanted from you was at least a nod of the head before we go to the work of putting this all together. It will all have to come back to you anyway because of the size of the bids, the size of this project. Because we may cut it up into three pieces for bidding purposes. Wilburn: Well, putting aside the question about philosophies about showers and those types of things, it is an old building that's crumbling. Bailey: And what's, I understand it's an old building that we own that's crumbling. What's our - I mean, is this always going to be the Senior Center? Has that always been the objective? Correia: That's what I'm wondering. How much more maintenance can this - I mean- Bailey: It's an old building that will always need repair. Correia: Is this the building for this? I mean, is it the best building for the Senior Center? Because I mean the accessibility - Bailey: Or do we need to build something on the old bus depot for it - Champion: I'm telling you right now that a million dollars is peanuts when you're talking about maintaining a building of that size. Or building a new building! This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Correia: Bailey: Champion: Correia: Bailey: Kopping: Correia: Kopping: Bailey: Kopping: Elliott: Kopping: Vanderhoef: Kopping: Vanderhoef: Correia: Vanderhoef: City Council Work Session Page 47 But that's what I mean- We have a 3-block campus. I mean we need to bring it over to the campus. There's a little - the ceiling - no, what do you call it - the roof, on my building is gonna be replaced where my store is. $37,000.00! So we're talking about an 800 square foot building. I understand that. But I mean, it's not - if you think, even just the way to get in, I mean, obviously there's the accessible way in the back but I mean, it wasn't built to be the Senior Center. It was the Post Office. Post office. Right. We do have, we do have 3 handicap accessible entrances. I know. I think that, I don't think that a roof replacement - this one's lasted 26 years, or no- 20. 20 years. And the boiler's been there since the building opened and so has the chiller. That's past due. Yeah. These are not common expenses that just happened to - The windows and the constant tuck pointing is what I have noticed all through the years. That we just keep going around the outside of that building with tuck pointing because it's, it's just that age. Right. And I think the tuck pointing component of this project is about $30,000.00 and I think that's traditionally, when we do a tuck pointing, that's what it's run, every few years. Instead of painting your house every x number of years you tuck point the Senior Center. It feels like - Now what I would like to suggest is certainly to get all of the lower level bathrooms and first floor bathrooms perhaps, if we're gonna phase it and get the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 48 roof done, because I think that, that's a water, mold situation and ifthat's one phase than the boiler/chiller is going to be one biggie, so if that's in next year CIP. Morris: I just have one comment to that. I agree with the lower level and the 1 st floor restrooms to get them up and running they need to be done simultaneously. And the lower level ones are closed presently because of the issues that we have currently. Vanderhoef: Mm hmm. Yeah. Morris: However, just for phasing in terms of not, as staff, I would recommend to instead put in the chiller before the roof so you're not cutting into a new room for that. Elliott: Good idea. Vanderhoef: That's true. Yep. Elliott: Ross, I'd like to have a discussion on the Senior Center/Rec Center before we do this. It appears there may not - I think there are 3 of us who would like that. If there's a 4th let's do it. Ifthere aren't a 4th let's move on. Bailey: We have that on a scheduled discussion. I mean I don't think it's going to take 4. It's already scheduled. Wilburn: How, how - O'Donnell: So what happens if we don't make these repairs? Elliott: I think - O'Donnell: No, what happens - are we talking about abandoning this wonderful old historic building, letting it deteriorate and crumble into the ground? Is that what we're talking about? Bailey: Well I don't think anything as extreme as that, Mike. O'Donnell: Well if you're not gonna repair it what's gonna happen? Champion: Well I think putting in the heating and air condition are essential. Bailey: Well if we're not gonna - ifit's ours, we repair it, naturally. I think Amy's point is well taken. Ifwe believe that we need a separate Senior Center for programmmg. O'Donnell: As we do. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 49 Bailey: Well, if we all believe that - you may - is this the best building? We have a 3 block campus we could use a multi-purpose sort of - I don't know. I mean, we've talked about that comer. The Rec Center could use expansion. There could be some shared opportunities where one wing of an expanded or another building was Senior Center or Senior workout gym and programming and dance so people who wanted their separate and people who were comfortable working out with, you know, god forbid, 40 year-olds could be in that gym. And we would have expanded opportunities in our downtown area with a more extensive shower facility in a building better suited. Champion: Let's say that all you say is going to happen. I mean, all your little dream about this would - Bailey: It was an idea; it's not even a dream. Champion: I'm not saying, I'm not saying it's bad. But I'm saying that's not going to happen in a year or two. Bailey: No. Champion: So we're talking about a heating and air conditioning system that needs to be replaced in a public building. Bailey: Does it need to be replaced next week or could we have this discussion first? Champion: I don't know. It depends on how bad the roof is. Bailey: How, I mean, is it gonna go- Champion: And that needs to be done before the roof. Bailey: Right. How, is the roof leaking now? Morris: The roofis leaking. What we've found is that there's not - most of the insulation is fairly well intact and - I can't really see here - I think the cost for the roof, let me just grab that real quick here. We're looking at about, as Linda said, $30,000.00 for the tuck point and parapet repair and an approximate cost of $85,000.00 for both levels of roof. O'Donnell: How many people at Ecumenical Towers utilize the Senior Center? Kopping: They use it for different kinds of services. A lot of people from Ecumenical Towers participate in the nutrition program and attend a lot of the entertaining kind of programs that we offer in the assembly room. O'Donnell: So the Center in this location is wonderful for Ecumenical Towers. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 50 Kopping: Yes it is. Champion: They have their own entrance. Elliott: As a person who was there at the time, having the Senior Center there was certainly one of the prime movers of putting Ecumenical Towers where it is. So, but I think you need the heating and air conditioning done, I think you need the roofing done. The other types of things I would still like to have a discussion on the relative sameness and uses of the Senior Center and the Rec Center. Do we need two separate but equal entities or can we combine some of the activities. And, of the activities that we have, what's the commonality between the kinds of activities that are provided free at the Rec Center, similarly at the Senior Center. The kinds of things that the Rec Center for which you pay, same with the Senior Center. I'd like to discuss those kinds of situations. Wilburn: Well, I personally am - I think the roof and the boiler, chiller need to happen. I'd like us to be able to proceed with that. I'm willing to - we've got the discussion scheduled, or on the list of things for programming type stuff, but, I'm one who believes that, I mean, it's probably not ideal, given the age of the building etc. You were asking is this the optimum location and stuff, but given some of the other larger ticket items that we have at this point I'm not willing to commit to looking at a visioning process for a new facility for, you know, for the Senior Center. So in my mind this is an investment for a continuation of the Senior Center on site for the next 15 - 20 years, but. Are there other, was there a 4th Council member who wants to - let me go back. The 3 of you who are wanting to have this discussion, are you saying we shouldn't do the boiler, chiller, roof replacement until we have that discussion or are you willing to give the go ahead with at least those two components of this tonight? Correia: Well I, if we're gonna do I think we just do it all. I think you need to have open bathrooms everywhere and they need to be ADA accessible. I mean I'm not - I don't think we should hijack. Bailey: I think mold is bad. Vanderhoef: Mold is bad. Wilburn: I didn't last in the fire station over there with the mold so 1- Bailey: And the Senior Center does have mold problems, unquestionably. Elliott: Well I think that building is gonna be used by the City. Undoubtedly by the Senior Center for some time to come, and I think you need the heating and air conditioning unit done and after that the roof. I'm simply saying that other aspects This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 51 ofthe building and its use could well dictate what is done and to what extent it's done and where it's done. Wilburn: In terms of the water main project and the ADA bathroom or? Elliott: The water main is yet to be determined anyway, and the ADA bathroom needs to be done pretty soon, but I think when it comes to showers and some of the other things that - and now we're quibbling over something that - when you're talking about a million bucks, we're talking about just a few dollars. So I'm certainly in favor of going ahead with the heating, air conditioning and the roof, at the very least. Champion: And the bathrooms. Vanderhoef: Well we have to do - O'Donnell: And the bathrooms and the showers. Vanderhoef: The lower bathrooms that are closed at this point. And my understanding is that because of the piping and so forth, one on top of the other, that the second floor has to be done or certainly it's cost effective to do that. Kopping: The first floor and the ground floor have to be done simultaneously because their plumbing is aligned and you can't move one without disrupting the other. Vanderhoef: That's what I was sure of. So if we put off the other bathrooms in the other areas of the building, certainly the building would meet requirements for our senior citizens with it on two floors and elevator and so forth, so. Correia: I mean, I brought up as we have this presented, and you know this is a very old building and probably in the, if we allowed ourselves to have a vision of what the most accessible Senior Center, whether it's integrated in Parks and Rec or not, I mean I'm supportive of having Senior Center facilities whether the department itself is integrated in Parks and Rec, which is kind of what I had been interested in from the budgeting perspective, not that we would not have a Senior Center. I think, you know, you look at the old post office and you don't think that's a great building for a Senior Center. It's, that was what was available at the time, and as we're looking over time and, you know, so we're committing by doing this that this is going to be the Senior Center for the next 20 years and we're king of taking off the table. Because we're investing the opportunity to have a vision. We have campus land. Champion: I disagree with you. I don't think we're - Bailey: That's the intent though, isn't it? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 52 Champion: I don't think we're saying this will be the Senior Center. I'm saying we have a City building that badly needs repair that we can't put off. Correia: But it doesn't always need - it doesn't need to be a City building forever or even if we decide it's - Champion: But it's going to be a City building for at least several years and we've got a roof, a big roof problem and a heating and air conditioning problem and mold in the bathrooms. So we just let those go over the next 5 years while we talk about integrating the Senior Center with the Parks system or the Rec building? Bailey: Or having a better facility. O'Donnell: Let's- Champion: Or having a better facility because those things don't happen over night. Wilburn: Well I guess I'm 100king at even ifit were to, even if the City were to sell it at some point. Bailey: Fine, let's do it. It's our building. Let's just take care of it and we can have this discussion at a later time maybe. If people have the will to have the discussion. Vanderhoef: A reuse of that building is - Bailey: It's going to be a challenge, admittedly. Vanderhoef: Certainly. Bailey: It would be a good arts building if we could find a for-profit arts place. Wilburn: Sounds like we've got the go ahead. O'Donnell: Let's fix that building. Bailey: Except I'm not interested in moving forward on the showers. I thought that was really, I'm not interested in moving forward with the showers at this time. Atkins: Can you separate the showers from the other restroom projects? Bailey: They're going to pay for the showers. I mean, that's just one vote Mike. I bet it'll be in the minority. O'Donnell: All right. Well let's hope. Champion: Showers. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 53 Wilburn: Showers. Vanderhoef: Showers. Atkins: Ok. Never mind. Bailey: There you go. Happy. O'Donnell: I'm thrilled. I like clean. Wilburn: Ok thank you. Elliott: Democracy in action. Bailey: I think showers are good too but. Wilburn: Anyone need another break before we go to A-2 building? Vanderhoef: Yes. Bailey: Yes. Wilburn: Ok. A-2/B Re2ulation and Incentive ITEM 22. AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE 7, ENTITLED FIRE PREVENTION AND PROTECTION, AND TITLE 17, ENTITLED BUILDING AND HOUSING TO ESTABLISH FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS FOR NEW AND EXISTING GROUP A-2 AND B OCCUPANCIES. Wilburn: Ok. A-2/B regulations and incentives in item 22. Elliott: Oh, this is new. Boothroy: You said that with a sigh. (laughter) Wilburn: I was exhaling. Boothroy: Of relief? Bailey: 7 of us sighed. 8, sorry Abbie. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Boothroy: Wilburn: Boothroy: (laughter) Boothroy: Wilburn: Bailey: Boothroy: Bailey: Wilburn: Boothroy: Champion: City Council Work Session Page 54 I think the memorandum I sent is pretty clear in terms of what the ordinance that's been revised and how it's been revised. Voice alarms not required under the new draft. The illumination is not required and the, only the area of the A-2 occupancy is required to be sprinkled. So it's in essence with existing establishments they're required to sprinkle and remember, under the present code, when you sprinkle it comes with an alarm system because when the sprinkler head is activated it automatically sends out an alarm to notify people within the premises as well as the fire department. So that particular feature is part of the sprinkler system so there is an alarm system built in. And then secondly, for those establishments that have amplified sound, under the current code, when the sprinkler system is activated that sound system is turned off. So the Summit, it was given as an example the other night, the movie theaters, that was another example that was talked about the other night. I have talked to both Leah and Rebecca, they're here tonight and they have looked at the changes and are, agree with the changes that we've made. So I think we made progress and we've cleared up any misunderstanding that we had, I think that came up out at the last meeting. So we're here to entertain any questions about what we have before you as well as thee are probably, we have not talked yet about the incentive program so we need to talk about that tonight too because I think that's a critical part of the whole package. So fire away. Questions. No pun intended. I'm sorry about that. It's late and I'm over 60. You won't get a shower here. No shower here. Ohno. I don't believe in people over 60 showering. Questions. Because their skin is dry. I have one question. I got a call today from Woody from The Sanctuary and he was saying that ifhe sprinkled his restaurant that he would have to sprinkle the second floor, which is unoccupied. Is that true? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 55 Hennes: Right now it's only - it's the A-2 occupancy. What we eliminated last time was that level, the ground floor. Woody's, he has a 2 story building. In the fire area, he could isolate that fire area to that one area or sprinkle the whole building. There's one of two ways of doing it. Champion: So he would not necessarily have to sprinkle the 2nd floor. Hennes: Not necessarily, ifhe isolated that fire area to the 1 st floor. Champion: How would you do that? Bailey: What do you mean isolate the fire? O'Donnell: Fire walls and things? Hennes: Fire walls, fire partitions, fire separation. Boothroy: Sheetrock. Hennes: Sheetrock, you know, fire rated assembly. Champion: So he's, his, his second floor is not occupied, so ifhe just put down firewall, which is drywall, basically, that's fire retardant or whatever it is. I have it. O'Donnell: Is it two 5/8s? Hennes: Well, it's actually an assembly. A lot of people wrongly think that a sheet of sheetrock is worth, you know 45 minutes. It's that one sheet of sheetrock, the stud wall and the sheet on the other side that gives you the fire resistive rating. His situation, he's got a large volume up there. There's a few offices, but then there's a large volume towards the Gilbert Street side, and the sprinkling heads to cover that would probably be less intensive or less in number than it would be to do the lower level. My recommendation to him would be to get estimates on what it would cost to sprinkle that versus putting in a fire separation. It might be cost effective for him to do it that way. Champion: Well he doesn't have to do it until there's a new- Hennes: True. Correct. Champion: Ok. But he probably would do it because he doesn't think he can sell his business without doing it, so that's why he was asking the question. Ok. Correia: So the Sky Box and Dublin, do they have to create the fire wall? Boothroy: No we put that provision out. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 56 Correia: Ok. That's just because it would be- Champion: Because they have to sprinkle now. Boothroy: They're sprinkling. We revised it to where they sprinkle the fire, the occupancy that's being used as the bar restaurant only. Correia: Because they're current. That's what we're saying, change of ownership, then the? Boothroy: Well even with the change of ownership for those we didn't really discuss that. We were assuming once we got that occupancy sprinkled that they would be in compliance with the code. Champion: Mm hmm. Correia: Right. No no, I'm talking about the other floor, the- Boothroy: The bottom ones? Correia: The bottom bars. Boothroy: Yeah, if they change ownership that's when they would have to go into sprinkling system. Vanderhoef: Bottom ones, excuse me. Correia: In number 3. Boothroy: Number 3. Correia: Number 3, all the lists. Vanderhoef: Oh. Ok. Correia: The bottom of the page, sorry. Vanderhoef: Not, not the - Correia: Underground, just - Vanderhoef: Ok. Well I don't have anymore questions on this. The only, only thing that I would still question those above and below ground particularly those that are not all under one business name, primarily Yacht Club, Sky Box, Dublin Underground. Is, these are the ones that really concern me about fire safety and This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 57 six years versus three years on those I think might be an appropriate look at that. I don't know whether anyone else has that same concern that I have. Boothroy: That's, the incentive program, which we haven't talked about, is only available for 3 years, and as I mentioned the other night, I think that in effect what that will mean is that those that have the 6 year time period will also try to do it within 3 because the incentives will be strong enough if we keep them in place to drive their decision making. I really believe that to be the case. Vanderhoef: Well I think you may be right. Correia: Well I, I just have some comments about the loan. I mean, I'm interested in - Boothroy: Why, why don't we see ifthere are any questions about the ordinance. Vanderhoef: I've got- Bailey: I have some too. Correia: Oh, right. Wilburn: Let's finish out with the ordinance first and then move to the - go ahead, Regenia. Bailey: This sounds like a broken record, but I still have concerns that change, that there's exemptions that not everybody will be compliant at a particular time. And so if we look under 3, automatic sprinkler systems required with change of ownership, some of those will never change ownership: the Moose Lodge, Eagles, Elks Club, and VW Post; VFW Post. And I think at some point in time it would be great, ideally, if everybody had sprinkler systems, even ifit's 12 years out. I mean those are, those are places that are used, rented out for events. People who might not be familiar with them will be there. There's a danger there, obviously, and they will never, probably, be sprinkled. And I, I think that that is something we should consider. Even, I don't know. And I've said this every time. At some point everything should have sprinklers. Champion: So you're saying like the American Legion - what else did you say? Bailey: Well it's - VFW Post, Elks Club, I may have missed some. Eagles and Moose Lodge. And I guess the point of this is you know, they rent those out for events. People are unfamiliar with the location. It's not necessarily that they might be - I mean there might be loud music at a wedding reception and you've got your decorations and your candles and people unfamiliar with the place and they will never have sprinkles - a sprinkler system. And that to me is not a good situation. O'Donnell: Well I think some of these people already have sprinkler systems that you've named. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 58 Champion: You know, I'm- Boothroy: As a matter of fact they do. The Moose Lodge is sprinkled. Bailey: Ok. Good. Because it's newer, right. Is that the newer one? Hennes: That's an example of one, one of those that changed locations in the last 5, 6 years. Bailey: Changed locations but it didn't change ownership. So there was new construction. But the Elks Club I can't imagine will change. Elliott: You know, that's not a bad point. Champion: It is a valid point. Elliott: When you say change, change ownership, would that also be changing location. Bailey: Well that- Elliott: For instance, that's what you were talking about. Correia: New ownership of a building. Bailey: That would be new construction and then fall in. Boothroy: If you, if the use were to construct a new building it would fully comply. If the use were to go into a building where it's a change of use, going from a retail operation to a A-2 occupancy, it would fully comply, just as it would be required to do. That's no change in present operation. It would, they would be treated as new uses. So any new use has to comply. Even though it still may be the Moose Lodge, and we should have removed that, because in changing the scope of the ordinance, with voice alarms and stuff being taken off, we missed not taking the Moose Lodge off this list. Elliott: The example would be when the Moose Lodge moved into what used to be the church that my wife and I attended. If that happened now - how about that- Boothroy: What are you doing there Bob? Elliott: Have to comply. Hennes: Yes. Boothroy: That's correct. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 59 Elliott: I could say several things but I won't. Wilburn: No you won't. Elliott: But that would be an example. Boothroy: Yes. Yes. Elliott: Ok. Fine. Bailey: But for example, the Elks Club probably won't move. And it's not that I'm necessarily pointing fingers. I, I think that if we agree that sprinkler systems are beneficial I think we have to consider that everybody should have them at a certain point in time. Elliott: I also think that I want to get this through, and maybe a Council in 2 or 3 years can say ok, it's time for us to put a time limit on all these things. And I think that there are other places other than bars that need to be sprinkled. Bailey: Oh well - Elliott: For future Councils. O'Donnell: Like the entire downtown? Elliott: I think there are places, there is a coup Ie places downtown that I think are more dangerous than any of the bars. Bailey: But we've got this in front of us and I would suggest that we just say in x number of years, and I'm not sure that I even care ifit's farther, much farther out than we have set, I just think that if we agree that this is a good thing, that we should move forward and make sure that everybody has it. I, I recognize your point that everybody will change - Champion: But that's true. They won't change ownership. Bailey: These particular ones won't. O'Donnell: Well the Elks moved already. I mean the Elks was right across the street. Bailey: When? O'Donnell: It was in the Chamber building. Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 60 Bailey: When I was alive? (laughter) Vanderhoef: No, you were dead at that point. (laughter) Elliott: Yeah, it was there before Bit of Orleans was there and after Bit of Orleans and other things. Champion: That was a long time ago. Bailey: I was probably born. Boothroy: I had my wedding reception at Bit of Orleans. Wilburn: Well perhaps Council can consider this between tonight and tomorrow night. Bailey: Well, I want to know if there's interest. Wilburn: Is there interest in? Champion: Well I'm half interested because I think you make a very valid point. Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. Bailey: And what kind oftime frame would get you whole interested? Elliott: 20 years. O'Donnell: 40. Wilburn: A number between 10 and 40 years. Vanderhoef: Going for 15? Bailey: Yes. Elliott: Let's not blow anything up at this point. Vanderhoef: I just heard a yes on 15 over here. Elliott: 15. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 61 Bailey: I'd go for 15. I was shooting for - Elliott: Everybody complies in 15 years. O'Donnell: You're looking, you're looking 15 years down the road though and look at the costs today. And just multiply that times 15 years down the road a Council - Bailey: So your smart business person will probably take advantage of the loan program and go for it in 3 years. O'Donnell: I don't think so. I don't believe you own a business. Bailey: Cost of, cost of doing - Boothroy: Not to be real provincial in my point of view here but I'm real concerned that if we begin adding these other uses in on a 15 year period or even 20 that we open this whole thing back up for - Bailey: Well I've been saying this for weeks and nobody has picked up on it. Boothroy: No, no I understand, I - no, I no. Bailey: You haven't picked up on it and it's very frustrating. Boothroy: No I know, I have, I understand what you're saying I just, Ijust have not recommended it. Bailey: Well is it or is it not a concern. Champion: No, 1- Bailey: So it's not a concern to you. Boothroy: It's not, it's not - what the concern is is that we need to sprinkle these businesses downtown, we need to get this started, and we need to get it done as quickly as we possibly can. Champion: I agree. Go. Boothroy: And some of these uses are lower hazards and we don't need to necessarily take the train off the tracks. Wilburn: With that said you've reiterated your point that you made with other staff and the fire chief and what Bob just said is hoping to get something on the overall goal was to get moving. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 62 Bailey: The worst example of a political compromise. Wilburn: Let's get moving. Champion: Great then. Wilburn: All right. Boothroy: Are we ready to talk about the - Wilburn: Any other questions about the ordinance itself? Champion: No. O'Donnell: No. Wilburn: Ok. Incentive questions. Vanderhoef: Ok. I've got - Boothroy: Do you want me to go through that at all? Bailey: I do have another, not that this is even going to be paid attention to, but. Wilburn: Last two questions. Bailey: I have one, this. We're still requiring voice alarm with new in section 907.2.1. Boothroy: Right. Bailey: And I don't understand why. I mean, voice alarm really doesn't have much of a track record and I thought we agreed that we weren't particularly interested in it and I thought that was fairly consistent across the board. O'Donnell: I agree with you on that. Champion: I do too. I was going to bring that up also. Elliott: I do. Bailey: Somebody else throw me a bone here. Champion: Yeah. Bailey: Ok. Great. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 63 Champion: Got it. Boothroy: So there are 4 that don't want voice alarms for new users. Champion: Right. Bailey: Right. O'Donnell: I never did, I never did agree with that voice alarm. It comes on and shuts off everything and says hey, there's a fire in the kitchen. You first have to know where the kitchen is. Boothroy: I assume by that Regenia and those who agree with you that you are still wanting the illumination feature which turns up the lights. Bailey: Yes. Ellott: Yes. Bailey: I've always liked that. Wilburn: I believe at the meeting the other night I was the only one that was willing to do that and the same points are kind of being reiterated here. Boothroy: So voice alarms, the only thing off is voice alarms for new users. Bailey: And did we determine that illumination is impossible to do, to do in the other situations with existing? That it can't be linked to an alarm? Boothroy: It's an additional cost. Bailey: Ok. Fine. Wilburn: Ok. Correia: Ijust have a question. So, but, does - in an establishment where there's music the music will cut off. Boothroy: Right. That's right. Vanderhoef: And the illumination all comes on. Boothroy: That's under the existing. Correia: The sprinklers are sprinkling and so you - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 64 Elliott: Regenia, you won one. Wilburn: Are there any other questions about the ordinance so we can move on to the incentive package? Bailey: Still not used to that. Wilburn: Incentive package. Correia: So I just, I, there - I'm concerned about, I'd like to offer a loan. I'm concerned about only, about having it at 1 %. Part of the cost, I'd rather have it at whatever percent that our, that we're able to get, because we're talking about bonding. And one of the things when we first started, when this was first on the table, we were having the businesses pay both for their sprinkler system and the cost of bringing the water main up. And we decided that we would pick up that cost, which is not an insignificant cost. And I think we have some inconsistent loaning activities happening with different programs. I'd rather see one, you know, even in this agenda we have an economic development loan at 3.26% on money that the City, the property tax payers don't pay anything on because it's CDBG funds, and we're loaning money to a non-profit at the rate that we're having to pay back, the interest rate of our bonding, the 5.23%. I'd rather see us offer loans so that it doesn't cost the property tax payer in Iowa City because we're picking up the cost of the property or the water main. Vanderhoef: Ok. I'm along on similar, but I put together a couple of ideas today in how I would like to approach this because that 10 year loan, length of loan, was put out there prior to the City saying that they would pay for the water connections and all of that. I would like to take the length of the loan down to 6 years and with that we recognize that the water improvements are going to be paid through the water line. The water fund, excuse me. Not through the line. And the one place it may show up is that we will not be to drop our water rates quite as soon as we would have before. So it is a water user expense, shall we say. And then when I looked at the 10an itself, there's nothing in the loan agreement that says that the loan will be triggered at a certain length oftime following the application. Now when they come in with the application the way I understand it is they have to their cost estimate and their pIan to be approved at that same time. Which means they don't have any work to do quotes after that except their loan and get going on it. So I would like to put into the loans that from the time of the approval of a loan that it must be triggered within one year. Boothroy: Used? Start? Vanderhoef: Start using within - Champion: Less than that. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 65 Vanderhoef: Well that's the max time that I would allow on it, because otherwise what I foresee is that some people are gonna come in at the end of a 3 year loan period and everybody's going to apply for a loan and then they're going to wait and wait and wait before they pull the trigger to start their construction. Atkins: Can I suggest that maybe you would use language - I'd envisioned this loan to be the permanent financing. That is, that they would go about the construction of the project, present us with, and then we put permanent financing in place. In other words, they have to front the cost of the thing. O'Donnell: That makes sense. Let's do that. Champion: Yeah. That does make sense. Atkins: That, then all we - that should eliminate that. We're the instrument for permanent financing. Champion: Nope, you're right, good idea. Ok. Boothroy: Then the trigger date is no longer necessary. Is that what you're-? Atkins: It would not be necessary. Vanderhoef: Ok. So that, that's fine. The other thing that - Correia: So I just have a - so they - I don't know. They pay for it, we pay them back, and then they start paying us back. Atkins: Yes. Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. When their contract for bill comes in. Correia: What's your opinion about the 1 %? Vanderhoef: The 1 % with, with us getting bonding right around 5% right now, that one I can, I can handle to help with this. I would look at a percentage like we have done with some of the CDBG programs in that it's x number below the prime. Correia: I, but I think if we're going to do 1 % on these loans then I think other, I think we should treat other projects that come in similarly. I mean what are our standards, why does this get a 1 % loan? Vanderhoef: But we have some that have 1 % loans but it's worded the other way Amy. It's just worded a certain percent below. Boothroy: We have, they have 0% loans. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 66 V anderhoef: We have some zeros. Boothroy: Right. Correia: I'm talking about the economic development. I'm not talking about the housing. Bailey: We have the - Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. Correia: The current proposal in the agenda tonight is 3.25%. Bailey: Right. Correia: So why is that? I mean, that's a downtown business that is not an alcohol establishment, but here, I mean we're not- Bailey: It's a case by case for the economic development ones. Correia: Well I think it's inconsistent and- O'Donnell: Well I think the difference is that these are people asking us for money on economic development and we're requiring something be done on the other end of it. We're imposing an expense that they wouldn't, they wouldn't have. Correia: But it's the cost of doing business, I mean it's updating. O'Donnell: It's our cost of doing business. It wasn't there when they started or when they initiated their business proposal. Champion: I have to ask Steve a question. I didn't envision us bonding for this money. I envisioned us using our reserves (can't hear) and then maybe the interest could be tied to what interest we're losing. Bailey: Connie you have to speak into the mic. Champion: Oh, sorry, sorry. Atkins: And you have, you have both those, you have those two choices. You could, depending on the size. Let's say this in total is a million dollars. Then we might want to consider current cash. But remember, when you tie it to a debt, that is covered by your debt service levy, which is an underlying financing position that helps finance the, the overall picture here. Bailey: Do we have - This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 67 Atkins: With me? So in other words, you can then rely on that debt service levy to cover defaults and do whatever. You use your current cash, that's substantially from the $810 levy. Bailey: Do we have any sense of what we may be, what total amount we may be committing to with this loan program? Correia: And that's the other concern I have, just saying we're going to offer. Bailey: Right, me too. Correia: I mean if you're saying any of these folks under #3 could also come in in three years then we could be way over what we thought. And I want to know what the cost, what that cost is going to be to the Iowa City taxpayer. Bailey: Well it seems that if we're making funds available we should have some estimate of what the pool of funds available. And once it's gone it's gone. I mean, once the loans are out they're out. Elliott: Don't you - Vanderhoef: But the question for me is we're talking about that upper number of a loan of $200,000.00 max. per project, in remember correctly. Atkins: No, I don't remember that. Correia: Ifwe loaned, if we loaned out a million- Vanderhoef: How, how much - Boothroy: Well we're not going to have anybody take a loan for $200,000.00. Are you talking about per business? Vanderhoef: $20,000.00. Atkins: That sounds more like it. Champion: Oh yeah. Vanderhoef: Yeah, $20,000.00. Excuse me, did I say- Boothroy: You said $200,000.00. Vanderhoef: Oh - well that's a little high. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 68 Bailey: That's some sprinkler system. Vanderhoef: I'm just adding zeroes here tonight. Champion: We can pretty much tell. Wilburn: I'm sorry, there's too many conversations going on. Vanderhoef: Ok. So with, $20,000.00 as a max loan, but we have very different size of projects. So are we better offlooking at a percent of the estimated costs than we are to set a set amount that everyone can go up to 20? Atkins: You can have a 3rd alternative as well. Vanderhoef: Pardon me? Correia: I said - Atkins: You can have a 3rd - excuse me Amy, go ahead. Bailey: It would be under a half a million. Correia: Well I was just, if we, if we loaned out a million dollars at 1 % over 10 years and we bonded that million dollars, how much are we subsidizing the cost of these systems? Atkins: Can't do that in my head, but you are subsidizing. Correia: Ok, but can you hold that? Atkins: I can do that. Elliott: Well not to be over - Correia: And we can get that tomorrow from Kevin? Elliott: Not to be overlooked is how much money will the City be spending to put the water mains to these properties. Correia: We had that. Boothroy: We gave you that number. Bailey: Can you give it to us again please? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 69 Atkins: Well if you want, if you truly want to use this. Ok, if you truly want to use this as an incentive program, then what you might want to do is create a pool, a resource. In other words, we will have a million dollars of loan capacity available, and that encourages people to go get it done right away. Bailey: Right. Atkins: Because once it's gone it's gone. Now you can always choose to replenish it, but going into the thing you could say our upper limit right now is a million dollars. Champion: That's it. I like it. Bailey: I like an upper limit. Atkins: And I'll put that- Champion: I like the upper limit. Correia: I also like it being that loaning at that interest rate. I mean, we're, just like we're also on the agenda assisting affordable housing, allowing them to use our 10an interest rate to loan and they're paying us back at 5.25 or whatever it is in there, 5.35%. It's lower than, it's lower than private financing. Atkins: Certainly is. Correia: And we are, originally when we came in with this 1 % for 10 years loan it was when they had to pay the cost of the water main, and for some that's half the cost. Atkins: I do believe - O'Donnell: I wonder how many people downtown signed on to this because of this 1 %? Bailey: Did you get that number? Boothroy: Yeah, we have it. 128. Atkins: I do believe - Vanderhoef: What? Boothroy: The water main extension. Correia: Well you know we haven't had an opportunity to talk about this this whole time. (can't hear) This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 70 Wilburn: I'm sorry - once again, there are too many conversations going on. Bailey: I just wanted this other number. Vanderhoef: So do I - I want the number. Boothroy: 128 was the water main extension. Correia: $128,000.00. Wilburn: Ok. Steve, can you go ahead and answer the question that you were - Atkins: Ah, I forgot. Wilburn: Amy had asked - you were responding to a question Amy had posed. Correia: No, you said you'd get me the answer to that- Atkins: Ok. I'll get you that answer for tomorrow. It'll come back to me. Bailey: For business? Elliott: To me the interest, the interest rate on these loans- Boothroy: For 17 businesses. Atkins: Oh, I know what it was. Can 1- Elliott: Oh, go ahead. Atkins: The interest rate Amy, you're talking about a higher interest rate, you and Dee, is more likely to be in the 5% range because this is going to be a public bond for private purpose and so therefore you don't get to take full advantage of. Correia: Right. Just like we're doing on the (can't hear) Atkins: That's why it's going to be a tad, it'll be about a percentage higher. He could borrow for a City project at say 4. if we borrow for this project it'll be more like 5. Correia: Well I mean that's what we're, and we're voting on that tomorrow evening- (cut off - end of tape) Elliott: This is something that is being imposed, now for public good, this is something that is being posed, imposed on private businesses who had been cleared to This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 71 provide what they are providing, they had been operating in good faith and we are now saying now there's something else you have to do. This is a significant cost to them and I think the City acknowledges that and says we're going to loan you the money and I think that loan needs to be at a very reasonable - whether it's 1 or2%- Bailey: 2.5. Champion: I would compromise. Bailey: 2.5? Champion: 1 % for 5 years. The bond rate for 10 years. The market rate for 10 years. Elliott: Yes. Vanderhoef: Is there anyone interested though in dropping these down to 6 years? Champion: I'm interested in dropping them down to 5 years. Elliott: No. Vanderhoef: Ok. Correia: Well I want to know what the numbers are with - I mean, I want to know what the cost is going to be to the taxpayer. Boothroy: How do you come up with a number? Vanderhoef: The length of the loan. Boothroy: How did you choose 6? Was there a reason for 6? Vanderhoef: I was trying to work in the cost of the water mains, because that 10 year was negotiated prior to us saying that we were going to do the water. Boothroy: No, I just didn't know - Atkins: Understand the important point on the 10 year. We traditionally try to sell our longer term debt at 10 years. That's why our credit rating is as high as it is, quick payback, and so that thinking got incorporated. Elliott: I think 10 years is a reasonably - O'Donnell: I do too. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 72 Elliott: Is a reasonable time, is a reasonable brief period of time. When you think of mortgages you think of 20 and 30 years. Champion: But can we give somebody an incentive to pay us back quicker? I mean can we do, the 10 year loan could be higher than the 5 year loan? Because we are putting in the water mains and this 1 % was put in before we decided to do that. I think that's a valid point. Correia: But I'm willing, I mean I guess I would take the water mains out and go back to the original. Champion: Back to the 1 %. Correia: 1 %, pay for it all. Bailey: No. I - Atkins: Ok. Understand that the water main is intended to be financed by current water cash. That is small enough to - Vanderhoef: So it's not a bonding. Atkins: I was not supposing bonding. Correia: Well like you said Dee now, if this is, now every water customer is paying for this proj ect. O'Donnell: But we have to do the water mains for the new sprinklers, don't we? Correia: Yes. Vanderhoef: So - Correia: If they weren't alcohol establishments we wouldn't be doing it. It's also- Elliott: And if we weren't imposing it- Vanderhoef: No, I'm ok - Boothroy: Keep in mind that we're looking at- Correia: Well I know we have to do it. I'm talking about the fairness issue. Boothroy: This is an issue that benefits everyone in this room. It's not just a person buying a house or it's not just a business. It's the community in general, and coupled with the fact that it's retroactively applying standards, they are expensive. Everyone This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Correia: Elliott: Wilburn: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Correia: Bailey: Boothroy: Wilburn: Correia: Wilburn: Correia: Wilburn: City Council Work Session Page 73 who goes into one of these places of business is going to be protected. The downtown will be better protected, the community is better protected. And I think that justifies looking at it differently, otherwise we wouldn't be presenting a 1 %. Now I understand you might want to stagger it, but I think it's, even if you look at the difference between 5% and 1 % over 10 years, I think we gave you some numbers similar to that at one point. Given we're talking about saving one life, that is a miniscule amount of money in that, in that sense. So you put it in that perspective. Well I, I understand that, but look at the Union Bar. It has an occupancy of 800 people. I jus estimated one night a week for 26 weeks of their cover charge averaging $6 and I think they charge more than $6. That's like $150,000.00 in cover charges alone. So the Union Bar can afford to pay 5%. So I don't know if we do it then on a need, a financial need basis, but I certainly don't want to subsidize the Union Bar putting a sprinkler in when they sh - can pay to put the sprinkler in. But we can't pick and choose. Is there- But you want the Union Bar to have a sprinkler system. Desperately. Why couldn't - I do want the Union Bar to have a sprinkler, but I don't - if they can pay for it, why should I pay for it? Because I want them to have it and they don't want to have it. But if - well that's why we're here, to tell them they have to have it and they have every capability to pay for it. You can't really have a stick and a carrot. I think that - Excuse me for a second, excuse me for a second. Amy is there - Fine. Never mind - there's not enough people. I was going to say Amy is there, do you want to restate what you wish the Council to consider and we can see ifthere's interest and- Well I don't think there's interest. Ok. All right. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 74 Bailey: I would go up from 1 % but not to 5. Is there any interest in going up 2.5, 2%? Or using Connie's tiered method to get - I mean, that would motivate us also to use reserves rather than bonding if we, ifthere's more of a potential payback, we get the money back sooner, from my perspective. Elliott: What did you say, 1 % for 5, 5% for the next 5? Champion: For 5 years, and our, the market rate, our market rate for non-City functions for 10 years. Elliott: I could go for that. Correia: I could go with that. Bailey: Are we still talking with the cap too? The million dollars? Champion: Oh yeah. Bailey: Ok. I could go - I like this. Vanderhoef: Ok. Wilburn: Ok. Hold on. Wait, wait please before you move on. With a one million dollar cap, 1 % for 5 years. Our market rate for 10 years. There were 4 I believe that were interested in that. Elliott: For the 1 st 5, our market rate for the subsequent 5. Wilburn: Yeah, that's correct. Correia: No. Vanderhoef: No. Champion: No. But that's ok. I don't object to that. (all talk - can't hear) Bailey: Wait. Let Ross restate it and make sure we're all on the same page. Wilburn: The one million dollar cap. 1 % loan if it's paid back within 5,5 years. Champion: And then it goes up to market rate. I mean, his statement would work too. If they haven't paid it - of course, then they might not have any plans to pay it back so then they take the 5 year pIan but then when they can't pay it back. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 75 Correia: I think they have to decide 5 or 10. Bailey: Yeah, you sign up for it. Champion: I think, my statement was, and I could agree with his also, and I also agree with my own. My statement was - Volland: Well that's very agreeable. Champion: 1 % if you take out a 5 year loan. Out market bonding rate for non-City bonding if you take out a 10 year loan. Boothroy: Or could it be any other period of time - Bailey: No. Don't muddle - don't muddle, Doug. Boothroy: Ok. I won't. Ok. Elliott: So we're talking about - (all talk - can't hear) Bailey: No, you didn't want to muddle, don't muddle. Boothroy: Somebody wants 7 so - Bailey: No. Don't muddle. Elliott: Can I get a clarification? You're talking about a 5 year loan for 1 %, a 10 year loan for our market rate. Boothroy: Right. Bailey: Right. I have to - Elliott: Ok. So I was, I misspoke on the first one. Champion: But what you said wasn't bad either. That's 1 % for 5 years. Wilburn: Can we stick with what you said? Champion: Yeah. Elliott: Let's do. Bailey: They have to tell you what kind of loan they want. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 76 Elliott: Yeah. Vanderhoef: Ok. Correia: Thank you Connie. Vanderhoef: One more question then. Ifwe have a pool, are we gonna keep this pool going? In other words, when it's being paid back? Champion: No. Correia: No revolving 10an. Bailey: It's not a revolving fund. Boothroy: For other businesses, is that what you were thinking? O'Donnell: Y eah. You're going to have to have the money for other businesses, because a million won't handle it. Champion: Oh my gosh it will. Correia: A million is all of them. Bailey: I think a million will. Champion: There's a $20,000.00 limit. Wilburn: Well I think the statement, I think the statement or the suggestion that Steve put out there which you always, a Council, depending on the response and any other changes than you can make a decision. A future Council can make a decision. Boothroy: Yeah, we'd have to come back. We have, we have 3 years and we'll be coming back fairly quickly to know whether or not this is - Bailey: How it is going. Yeah. Boothroy: Yeah. It won't be long, really, in the whole scheme of things. But there isn't, as originally proposed, there isn't a limit in the amount. It was just for the amount of the improvements. So what happened, so what I had sent out to you -let's take Giovanni's. He has a bid to sprinkle that building. It's $30,000.00. He would, that's his cost. We would evaluate it and he would be able to qualify if he wanted to do it 5 years under your plan 1 % for $30,000.00. There's not a cap on this proposal at this point in time of $20,000.00. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 77 Champion: Oh, I thought there was. Boothroy: A long time ago, but not at this point in time. Bailey: But I still think a million would cover it. Boothroy: I think a million is going to goa long way to cover almost all of these businesses, and we had done some preliminary estimating on it and if you're averaging, I think we figured if, do you remember those numbers? If we had - Hennes: No I don't; it's been awhile. Boothroy: Yeah. We figured if we put about $25,000.00 per business you could figure, a million dollars, you could figure how many businesses you'll cover, and you'll cover almost everybody. Bailey: Right. And that's what you did. Champion: Yeah. Some businesses are gonna be less than that and some are going to be more. Boothroy: Dublin Underground is about $8,000.00. Bailey: Right. Vanderhoef: Loan is not to exceed 20. Boothroy: That was an earlier - Hennes: Previous. Boothroy: That's not- Vanderhoef: Ok. Well I'm still going on that. Bailey: No. We have no cap on the loan. We have a cap on the pool. Vanderhoef: Well I understand that, but I think the 20, that's why I was asking the question. Bailey: We're permanent financing. I don't think we should have a cap. Elliott: We're getting precariously close to an agreement. Vanderhoef: I know it. Bailey: Keep us moving forward, please. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 Boothroy: Champion: Boothroy: Champion: Boothroy: Champion: Bailey: Boothroy: Champion: Vanderhoef: Champion: Boothroy: Atkins: Bailey: Boothroy: Champion: Vanderhoef: Boothroy: City Council Work Session Page 78 So we have a million dollar cap, 1 % for 5 years and market rate for a 10 year 10an. They have to declare it at the get go. City market rate. I don't know how you state that. City market rate. Well, we won't have that final- you'll have a resolution with those, those conditions prior to your 3rd consideration. You won't have it tomorrow night, but we'll have it all worked out and you'll have a chance to look at that at that point. We're going to be discussing this again? Well you have, you have Connie, you have 1 st consideration tomorrow night and we pray that you'll give it first consideration. How do we say that we've ended it already tonight? We just amend it? I'm still not happy with the ordinance, so - We will, we will, we can give you an ordinance with the change in language on the voice alarms if that's what you want. Right. So you think a million dollars will cover at least the 23. Oh, it'll cover more than that. Yeah. $25,000.00 times 40 is a million dollars. You've got 40 businesses - you're in pretty good shape. And if you've got an average of 20, I think you get there pretty - We're gonna be real close. See, I thought there would be a lot more than that. That's good. I like to have the money. The loans are going to be there for those others if they choose to come in at this point. And several of those will not come in. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 79 Bailey: Yeah, because they don't have to. Boothroy: Sorry. I didn't want to mention it. Bailey: But you - it will not be forgotten, Doug. Wilburn: Ok. Any other questions about this? Boothroy: I'm excited about tomorrow night. I will be here. (laughter) Bailey: You don't know what it's going to bring. Correia: Too exciting. Boothroy: I just want you to know I believe in you. Elliott: Thank you. Bailey: I believe in you. V anderhoef: You're giving a pep talk - a pep talk. Elliott: And I appreciate the time that you spent with Rebecca and Leah. Boothroy: (can't hear - away from mic) Elliott: That's how we get things done. Champion: I bet we could make him cry if we really tried. Bailey: Oh yeah - I'll take that bet. (laughter) Boothroy: We'll go down and have a beer, won't we. Bailey: Only in a sprinkled location. Vanderhoef: An unofficial meeting in public. Aeenda Items Wilburn: Agenda items. Agenda items. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 80 Bailey: I have one. In the interest of moving us forward. Wilburn: Ok. Agenda items. ITEM 16. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING FUNDING FOR DISCERNING EYE, INC. FROM IOWA CITY'S COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT - ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FUND AND AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO ACT AS CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER AND SUBMIT ALL NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT. Bailey: Item 16. Amy referred to this earlier. At the request of the applicant, wait, Discerning Eye, they would like this deferred indefinitely and the economic development committee will be looking at this again. There are some issues. So will we just take this off or move to defer at that point? Karr: Move to defer. Wilburn: I have to abstain due to a conflict of interest from my (can't hear) Bailey: Oh. Ok. So we'll just defer it - Karr: Indefinitely. Bailey: Thank you. That's all I have. Wilburn: Other agenda items. I know you've got them. Bailey: No, please. Elliott: I will have some concerns about the planning item having to do with the 15 acres, I forget which number it is; from what is it - Withering Heights? No. Champion: Whispering Meadows. Elliott: Whispering Meadows. That sort of thing. Bailey: We're going to have some extensive discussion regarding that item. Elliott: I think I'll have some discussion. I don't know if there's anything to be gained from talking about it tonight. Dilkes: Well we shouldn't talk about it tonight because we have to talk abol.Jt it tomorrow. Bailey: Karin didn't have to be here. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 81 ITEM 15. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CLERK TO ATTEST TO AN AGREEMENT TO LEND BERRY COURT LIMITED PARTNERSHIP $320,000 TO PRESERVE 14 UNITS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING Vanderhoef: But the financing, I just have a couple questions, and maybe I should call Mary Anne tomorrow. I didn't get that done today. Correia: For Berry Court? Vanderhoef: On 15, for Berry Court. Correia: Charley's here. Bailey: Charley - I think, you know, I might be helpful to have those tomorrow night too so people understand them. Don't you think? Correia: What are the questions? Champion: Oh right. Vanderhoef: What I'm trying to figure out is, I understand that they had to do the for-profit organization because of what the State rules are. But then what will the profits be? This is to be a 20 year affordability level. Champion: 30. Vanderhoef: No, 30 year, a 30 year affordability. Elliott: I think it's 30, yeah. Vanderhoef: So if the loan is paid off in 20, where does that money go ifit's in a for-profit business? Elliott: It goes to the business that's making the profit. Vanderhoef: I understand. Correia: It's not making a lot of profit. Vanderhoef: Well - Bailey: You know, the for-profit business is just for the transfer of tax credits so it's not a Vanderhoef: I, I understand that. But it still- This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 82 Correia: They'll be paying property taxes on all of those homes. Elliott: That's, that's the big thing for me is they're going to be paying property taxes. Champion: I don't have any objection to people making money. Bailey: As a core philosophy I agree with that. Vanderhoef: No, I don't either. I just was curious about where it would go since this is the only property owned by this Berry. Correia: 14 homes. Isn't it 12- Bailey: 14 units. Vanderhoef: Units. So and they will be under one loan is what I'm seeing. So where does all that money? Correia: What do you mean? It goes into the business. Champion: It does into the, they could do finance then. Correia: They can keep doing, they're gonna keep operating as- Bailey: It'll probably churn, I mean, it'll churn through the units. Elliott: But it is not unusual for for-profit firms to be involved in affordable housing type situations, is it? Haven't we had that in numerous situations? Bailey: Well and it's the only way you can do the tax credit deal. Correia: Right. Vanderhoef: The tax credit thing creates this. Bailey: I guess I'm not tracking with what your concern is. I - maybe I'm cookie deprived. Vanderhoef: Ok. You payoff a loan, you continue to own them and because this is a stand- alone, for-profit organization there, but we've got management being done by a non-profit. So where will the profit be used? Are they gonna put it back into more housing? Correia: We wanted these to maintain the housing that we have. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 83 Bailey: Yeah, as I think, until tonight - Elliott: We haven't asked that before. Correia: I mean 14 homes, especially after 20 years, they're going to have maintenance calls and - Bailey: I mean we saw housing in buildings - Vanderhoef: Well I understand all of that but - Elliott: Isn't, isn't - say like Burns; isn't that a for-profit? Vanderhoef: Mmm hmm. Bailey: I'm just not sure there's all that much money. Elliott: We haven't asked that of anyone before. Vanderhoef: Oh yeah, we did. Bailey: I don't know if the margin is- Elliott: I don't recall. Vanderhoef: Well, but the management fee goes out. Correia: Sure. Champion: Yeah. The Housing Fellowship - Wilburn: These are general obligation bonds. Atkins: Yeah. Wilburn: I get to vote on a housing issue. Elliott: How about that. Wilburn: Right? Yeah? Bailey: Very easily excited. Wilburn: It's the little things in life. Bailey: Ok. I agree with that. I agree with that. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 84 Elliott: No, I like this. Vanderhoef: The rents will be from fair market rate or below. Elliott: What did they say, $525 to $570 for a two bedroom - something like that as I recall. Vanderhoef: $525? Elliott: I think $525 to $550 for the two bedrooms. Atkins: Sounds about right Bob. Elliott: What they had in the memo. And maybe 7 something - Vanderhoef: In the packet? Elliott: Yeah. O'Donnell: I think you're right. Elliott: They listed the anticipated - oh no, that's something - 1. Bailey: I don't remember reading that. Vanderhoef: I don't remember reading that. So you're bringing up information I don't know. Elliott: I think I saw a copy of a memo. Atkins: I can find the rents for you, but they listed them a long time ago when we first started talking about this. O'Donnell: I think you're right. I think it was about $525. Atkins: It was in that neighborhood. Bailey: Good. Vanderhoef: And up to 60% of median. O'Donnell: Who knows. Wilburn: Actually, we have subject to loan secured by mortgage of the property. The City has a loan, the City's mortgage for CDBG Home Funds. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 Dilkes: Bailey: Wilburn: Dilkes: Wilburn: Bailey: ITEM 12 ITEM 13 Elliott: Correia: City Council Work Session Page 85 No, that's been changed. You have a new agreement in front of you. We got new paperwork tonight. Oh, ok. The loan for CDBG Home Funds is gonna be paid offbefore this deal as I understand it. Ok. So I'm still in. Any other agenda items? You want to run every item, don't you? CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING ORDINANCE PROPOSED BY CITIZEN INITIATIVE PETITION Whereas, it is in the public interest to provide, unless otherwise exempted by law or ordinance, that a person shall have attained legal age (currently 21 years of age or more) to lawfully be on the premises between the hours of 10:00 p.m. to closing of any Iowa City establishment holding a liquor control license, a wine or beer permit, that authorizes on premises consumption. Now, therefore, be it resolved, that Article 4, Chapter 5, Section 8 of the City Code of Iowa City - entitled Persons Under 19 Years of Age in Licensed or Permitted Establishments - shall be modified to replace "nineteen (19) years of age" wherever and however it appears within such Section 8 with "the legal age". (FIRST CONSIDERATION) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE JOHNSON COUNTY AUDITOR TO PLACE THE QUESTION OF WHETHER TO ADOPT THE PROPOSED PUBLIC MEASURE MODIFYING ARTICLE 4, CHAPTER 5, SECTION 8 OF THE CITY CODE OF IOWA CITY - ENTITLED "PERSONS UNDER 19 YEARS OF AGE IN LICENSED OR PERMITTED ESTABLISHMENTS" - TO REPLACE "NINETEEN (19)" WHEREVER AND HOWEVER IT APPEARS WITHIN SUCH SECTION 8 WITH "THE LEGAL AGE" BEFORE THE QUALIFIED ELECTORS OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, lOW A AT THE NEXT REGULAR CITY ELECTION ON NOVEMBER 6, 2007. Oh. Eleanor, I have a question. And this, this isn't a concern, it's just a question. Why does the law require you to say oflegal age rather than 21 and over, when for many people legal age means very different - you have legal age for driving, legal age for drinking, legal age for - For voting. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 86 Elliott: For voting. Legal age for being in military service. Why do we have to change it to legal age instead of 21 and over? Wilburn: That's the language they chose, wasn't it? Dilkes: Well that's the language that the petitioners chose. Elliott: Ok. So it isn't the law it's the petition. Dilkes: I think there's a good reason for it, because legal age is defined in the alcoholic beverages code. Elliott: Ok. Dilkes: And so I think their, clearly it was their intent to make it the legal age, not 21. Elliott: You answered my question. Thank you. Vanderhoef: So if the code changed then this would still meet it. Wilburn: And so we will, on item 12, we will have to vote up or down on the measure first. Champion: Right. ITEM 3e(4) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THECITY CLERK TO ATTEST A CONDITIONAL ZONING AGREEMENT WITH TYLER ROGERS, THE OWNER OF PROPERTY LOCATED IN JOHNSON COUNTY, IOWA Elliott: Yes. And then - oh, I have a question of Steve. Atkins: Yes. Elliott: The situation with the City dump as far as the - Atkins: We like to refer to it as the landfill. Bailey: The landfill. Atkins: It's a dump. The, putting in the well, that has been agreed upon by both the property owner and the County? You know there's an item in here which says because of the proximity the - Bailey: Approved area. Atkins: I'm almost positive. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 87 Dilkes: That will be signed by both the property owner and the County. Elliott: Ok. So everyone agrees. Atkins: Yeah. Elliott: Ok. Ok. That was my concern. Atkins: Everyone. Yeah. Let's question everyone. Bailey: The parties concerned. Elliott: The party of the first part and the party of the second part. O'Donnell: Oflegal age. Wilburn: If there's no other agenda items we can move on to Council time should anyone choose to use it. Elliott: How about that. Council Time Correia: Atkins: Correia: Atkins: Correia: Atkins: Correia: Bailey: Atkins: Correia: I have a question about the City lot back here on Saturdays. Someone was asking me about parking for the farmers' market and- Because we enforce it? Yeah. Yeah. We were experiencing lot car storage. Bring it in on the weekends, drop it there on Friday night, pick it up on Sunday night. Oh. Is that why? Yeah. Can we do any farmers' market parking only on Saturday or something like that? Because we've expanded the market. Yeah, it's not a bad idea. Let me ask. We can have a little sign. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 88 Atkins: Yeah, we can do that. Vanderhoef: For those few hours. Correia: Well, because it says for, the, you have to have a permit Monday through Saturday. Atkins: Yeah, that's what it says. Champion: But we could have parking. Correia: So it could be Saturday morning during market time. Atkins: I, let's see what we can thing about. Champion: Yeah, or like 8 to 4 or 8 0 5 parking on Saturday and Sunday. Atkins: I don't think it's one of our more vigorously enforced. Correia: I think it must have been - Vanderhoef: Yeah, I had a call. Bailey: If you heard from somebody it probably wasn't for it. Vanderhoef: I heard from somebody else though who had used it for shopping at New Pi for years and then all at once got a ticket and hadn't noticed the change. Here again it's like the taxi stand. It's one littIe sign, quotes you know what it says. It's always said that so you don't read it. Bailey: Right. Atkins: We'll get you something. Correia: All right. Champion: Yeah, that's a good place for it, the farmers' market. Bailey: Well especially, it's larger and there are fewer places. Vanderhoef: Well and it's used on Sunday. Atkins: Yes. It's full on Sunday. Wilburn: Would anyone else like Council time? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 89 Champion: I just wanted to see how our trash cans business is going? Are we still advancing that? Pick up trash cans? Atkins: Trash can business. You've gotta help me on that. Champion: The arm? Atkins: Oh, it's going great. In fact we bought another, we're gonna buy another truck. Champion: Ok, good. Great. Vanderhoef: I hear the other one is just breaking down though. Atkins: That could be. That I don't know about. Vanderhoef: They did two weeks of hauling it away in our area. The truck wasn't working. Elliott: On the trash, I noticed in, where were we in Illinois? Some city in Illinois, wherever it was, I noticed the downtown trash receptacles where dual receptacles. Clearly labeled: this is for trash, this is for recycled bottles and cans, something like that. I thought that was - Atkins: Is that for pickup or public? Elliott: Pardon? Atkins: Public pickup or private sector? Elliott: It looked to me like public. Atkins: There's a big difference - you can make any rules you want. Bailey: That would be great. Because I think that continues to be a barrier to recycling is if you have to carry something around. Elliott: Yeah, this was in Springfield as a matter of fact. Vanderhoef: As long as they aren't side by side. They're just gonna shove something in. Bailey: I agree. Elliott: They were scattered throughout the downtown area, and by the way, they don't have much of a downtown area. But I thought it was really a neat idea. Correia: Yeah. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18, 2007 City Council Work Session Page 90 Bailey: Mmm hmm. ITEM 3f(6} Paula Brandt: Multi-family garbage pick-up Vanderhoef: Ok. And that letter that we got from the Northside about the private haulers coming in and clanging and banging their trucks early in the morning, I think that's a reasonable request. Bailey: Well yeah. I do too. Champion: 5 0' clock in the morning. Elliott: I can see that. Atkins: What time did you have in mind? 7:00? Bailey: Well according to our ordinance it's 7:00. Vanderhoef: Same as what we have for the rest. Champion: Our ordinance isn't 7:00. Atkins: Ok. Haulers are gonna scream. Elliott: That was Mike coming home. Atkins: Yeah, they're going to holler. Bailey: As 10ng as they holler after 7:00 in the morning I'm good. Atkins: I know the, from experience, what you're talking about. Vanderhoef: The downtown is - Bailey: One thing. I mean, you assume a certain level of more noise if you are a resident downtown than you assume in a neighborhood. Champion: Well, they haul trash away downtown in the middle of the night literally. Bailey: Right. Champion: But I think a neighborhood could be protected from dumpsters being dumped in the morning. Atkins: What they try to do I'm sure is they do out early and they can be the 1 st person in line at the landfill to unload and they're done for the day. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007. June 18,2007 City Council Work Session Page 91 Champion: I think that letter said that our ordinance reads even later than the City starts. So maybe we all ought to have the same time. Vanderhoef: City starts at 7:00. Champion: Really. Vanderhoef: Uh huh. Champion: I thought the ordinance - Vanderhoef: And I think 7:00 is plenty early to, in a residential neighborhood. Atkins: Let me get you back on that. Champion: That's really early. Wilburn: Ok. Thank you Steve. Council time? Ok. Bailey: Want to do this again tomorrow night? Wilburn: Tomorrow night. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council meeting of June 18,2007.