HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-01-14 TranscriptionJanuary 14, 2008
January 14, 2008
Council Present:
Staff:
Other:
Budget;
Special City Council Work Session Page 1
Special City Council Work Session 5:45 P.M.
Bailey, Champion, Correia, Hayek, O'Donnell, Wilburn, Wright
Karr, Helling, Dilkes, O'Malley, Hargadine, Rocca, Davidson, Craig
Volland
Hargadine/ Thank you, and good evening.
Bailey/ Thanks for being here.
Hargadine/ We've got, uh, short, uh, presentation for you. Um, I think we...the plan is I'll
present for, um, 40 to 50 minutes or so and then ask questions (laughter) but I think
we've got time built after each presentation for questions to me, questions to Andy, after
his presentation, and if any time, uh, you need to stop and ask a question, please feel free
to do so. Um, we're going to go over, uh, two different presentations. One by, uh, me
and the other one by Chief Rocca, and one of the things I'd like to do is, uh, point out,
there were two reports that I think you should have copies o£ One of `em, uh, went out
in October originally. There may be, uh, a new version that Dale printed off and...and
got to you. A second one was on staffing the front desk with, uh, CSO's. Two different,
sort of related topics, uh, but both of them are in request for funds for the upcoming year.
This here is a staffing history and some of the things I'd like to point out are, um, in
2002, we had 75 officers. Um, this was probably as a result of a universal hiring program
that the Federal government put on. Couple things I'd like to put out...or at least make
you aware of, notice over here under computer analyst. Um, my predecessor, who I think
was starving for internal IT support at the time, um, gave up one of the badged positions
for that internal computer position. I don't fault that decision. I'd probably do it myself,
um, because we're a heavily automated computerized department and we needed our own
internal guy, so that's where one of those positions right here went, um, computer
analyst. Uh, couple years later when the State rollback hit and that grant ran out, that's
when we couldn't maintain those 75 officers and went down to 71 officers.
Champion/ It wasn't just the rollback. The State asked us for $600,000, and that's where
the money went.
Hargadine/ Um.. .
Champion/ Isn't that right? (laughter and several commenting)
Hargadine/ The effect of that though, I think, affected the Police Department, um, little
more drastically than it did other departments. Um, the Council in their wisdom
back in 2002 though had us up at, uh, 75 officers. So, here's our present, um,
staffing at 73. Also want to point out something that I'm going to tie into the
presentation. Here on, uh, administrative secretaries, back in 97 we had two.
Now I want to, I'm guessing that's back when we had a Deputy Chief. I think
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January 14, 2008 Special City Council Work Session Page 2
both the Chief had a secretary and the Deputy Chief had a secretary. I'm going to
bring that up again in a couple minutes. The...the original staffing study that we
did back in October, um, we were getting a couple different requests for
justification on staffing. Bob Elliott asked for one, and we were getting a couple
of others, and...and we knew that we were not too far off from budget preparation
time, so that's...we went ahead and, uh, completed it, just prior to this budget
process. But we looked at Iowa City and compared out department three different
ways. We compared them to cities our size across the nation. We compared Iowa
City PD to cities our size in the northwest central region, which encompasses 411
Midwest cities, between 55,000 and 99,000, um, in population. We also
compared Iowa City to the ten largest Iowa cities. The results of that were from
the national average, cities...and this is not a recommendation. This is not a
mandate. This is a...a problem I have with the press. They tend to say that the
Chief says we need 41 more officers and that's not what I've ever said, but if you
look at statistical averages, uh, across the nation for cities our size, they've been
at 114 officers, which would be an additiona141 for us. Same thing, ten largest
Iowa cities average, um, that's a 1.5 officers per thousand, which would mean
another 22 officers for us, and we realize that that's...there's no way. That's a
budget buster, um, but the...the last thing that we compared ourself was the
northwest central region, which was 1.4 officers per thousand, and I think that's a
realistic goal. We, uh, we landed on that. That would put our department at 88
total officers, sworn officers, which would be an increase in 15 from where we are
now, from that 73 officers that we have. Looking at statistics by itself is never the
best way of doing anything, so one of the things that that report, uh, indicated and
outlined is a lot of the things that we're not doing, but we portray ourselves as a
full-service department. Um, the items in red here are areas that we currently
provide little or no service in, at all, and those three are crime prevention, traffic,
and school resource officers. Um, I know, Amy, you and I sit on a, on the Sexual
Assault Awareness Task Force. One of the homework assignments I have for the
next meeting is, um, Neighborhood Watch and presenting on what that means.
Well, Neighborhood Watch is usually run by a crime prevention unit or crime
prevention officers, and that's something we don't provide. When we let those
staffing positions go a few years ago, that was one of the things that went by the
wayside was crime prevention, and being able to run those types of programs, um,
this is also in the same priority order that the report was that was sent to you back
in October. As I see it, if we were to get additional officers, this is in priority
order. The only reason school resources...it's not that I don't think that they're
important, it's that there are other funding mechanisms for those, uh, either
through the Federal government or through the school system, if they decide that
school resource officers, um, are needed, and based on what I'm seeing in the
school system, I think we're going to end up there at some point. Um, if I were
successful and talked you into 15 this is probably the breakdown of where we
would put those 15. Three of them would go to patrol. Crime prevention, two
headed up by one Sergeant. Street crime, we would add one officer to them, and
they're doing a fantastic job of...right now there's three officers and...and a
Sergeant. I would add one more to that unit. Uh, two officers would be added to
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investigative, and one Sergeant. The reason why I would add a Sergeant there is,
when I first got here, um, the street crime unit had no supervision whatsoever,
and, um, there was a Sergeant assigned in, uh, in investigative. Well, I stole that
Sergeant out of investigative, put him over the street crime and narcotics units,
and they still have the need for that Sergeant in investigative. I just needed him
more in street crimes. Traffic, um, I'm sure you all get the emails, the phone calls
just like I do that, uh, traffic, whether you're on bicycle, uh, whether you drive a
car, whether you're on foot, traffic's a problem in Iowa City, and, um, one of the
things that I would like to eventually work towards is a dedicated traffic unit
where all they do is go out and enforce traffic laws. One additional K-9, um, we
have one now, and he's actually in his...the prime of a canine's life, but as you
know dogs, they don't live long enough. Um, if...if we...what I would like to do
is have two at any time, one old and one young, um, because when the old one is
retired, then we'll always have the one, the younger one, and just cycle through
that every three years. Um, right now, if...when we retire this present canine,
we're going to be 18 months to two years without the services of that canine dog
because it takes that long to get them purchased and trained and back up and
running. So our goal is to always have two, and that's why I would add' one to the
canine, and then I've already talked about school resources. Let's look at the
impact of being short. I mentioned that statistics by themselves aren't the best
way to go, but services that we can't provide, that's just a, uh, a way to bring
home what I'm trying to convince you. We have no one assigned to or who
specializes in juvenile crime. That's almost unheard of in my business. Um, one
of the things that the national statistics are bearing out is the juveniles are
committing crimes younger, and the types of crimes that they're committing are a
lot more violent. They're probably, as violent crime goes down in the nation,
violent crime that's being committed by young people is going up. We have no
investor...investigator assigned to identity theft cases. It's not going away. It's a
problem that, uh, unfortunately law enforcement is way behind on, but we don't
have anybody within our department that...that works on them full time or
specializes in them. Lastly, the...this is just one unit, how it impacts being short,
no investigator or assigned, um, or specializes in Internet crimes against children.
Um, sad to say, that's not going away, and um, equipment is free, training is free,
lab access...State crime lab access if free. We just have to provide somebody that
is dedicated to do it, but we are unable to provide the services based on our
present level of staffing. That was our sworn needs. Uh, I'd like to divide that off
into non-sworn now. Um, as you are aware, we're working on a Joint
Communications project, um, still...we've come a long way, and you'll probably
here more about that in a couple weeks at the CIP, um, presentation. Time table
on that is hopefully going to break ground July 1 of this year to be completed July
1 of the following year. We're still on track.. .
Bailey/ We'll know better on Friday, right?
Hargadine/ We'll know more, but, uh, we have no reason to think that it's not going to go
off on schedule. The services that are provided...right now I've got 11 and a
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quarter dispatchers. There's a couple ofpart-timers in there. The services that
they provide while they're dispatching, uh, we take for granted, but, um, one of
the things that a police department has to have their phone answered 24/7.
There's got to be somebody at the front desk that staffs that 24/7. It's asafe-
haven. If you're being stalked, if you're being followed, if you're being harassed,
what should come to mind is, `Well, I'm going to go to the Police Department,'
and there's got to be somebody trained there that recognizes that you're in trouble
and those...that service now is presently done by the dispatchers, that I'll be
losing probably, uh, beginning in two physical years from now. Well, um, what
I'm proposing is to staff in the fourth quarter of the budget year that we're talking
about, uh, is an increase in five community service officers. Um, that's the bad
news. The good news is I don't need them for the whole year - I just need `em
for the fourth quarter. Um, and if we get delayed, let's say the Joint
Communications project is delayed six months or whatever, um, we'll know that
and we'll be able to delay the hiring of this, but at some point, that's a service that
I gotta be able to provide, um, but just...that's just a basic fundamental, um,
service that police provide. And it's 24/7. We gotta provide them on holidays,
weekends. Um, that's CSO's. Another project we have, um, right now our police
records, and you'll hear more about the technical side of this in a couple weeks,
but, um, we provide a lot, we do a lot ofhand-written documents and for
permanent archival, we're scanning them. So in 20 years when you need to
access that record, you print out a copy of the hand-written document. Well,
image what that would be like in each one of your own offices, law offices, um,
social services, um, you just...it's an unprofessional situation. We'd like to go to
all typed reports, so we're needing, um, an increase in our clerical staff. We're
requesting one full-time clerk typist that... somewhat what we had back in 97, I
believe we had two full time secretarial staff. We'd like to get that position back,
and then an increase in our part-time typist budget. Questions?
Champion/ Chief, um, when you talk about...I mean, I understand you have to have that
front desk manned 24 hours a day. I totally understand that, but a lot of times
that's not busy. Why couldn't that person be combined with a clerk typist?
Hargadine/ Well, I think it's...it will be busier before 5:00 P.M., but, um, there's times
when the lobby fills up because of a disturbance or, it's just an unpredictable, um,
situation. The clerks, are you talking about records' clerks or just...
Champion/ The typing of the reports.
Hargadine/ It is. That's...and we are looking at that...that, uh, when that front desk
person is not busy, they'll be expected to either type reports or enter warrants or
enter toe sheets. There's a lot of work that our dispatchers currently are providing
for us that, um.. .
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Champion/ Right, they do...I mean, I always see them busy back there when they're not
dispatching, but they won't be dispatching...well, they might be dispatching local
problems.. .
Hargadine/ Well, to say they're not dispatching. When awalk-in comes in, they're either
needing to talk to an officer, so it's going to be entered into the computer system,
just like it would be if the dispatcher was there, um, or they need, uh, referred to a
detective, um, or you know, it just depends on what the request for service is.
Champion/ If somebody calls and says, uh, somebody broke into my car, how is that
dispatched? I mean if it happened during the night, it's not an emergency, they're
not going to catch the thief, how is that policeman dispatched to answer that call?
Hargadine/ Presently or.. .
Champion/ No, in the future.
Hargadine/ If it...if it comes in to the front desk or if they walk in, uh, the way I see the
new, when this new system is in place, the new dispatch center, the front desk
person here, the front desk person at Johnson County Sheriff, the front desk
person in Coralville, the front desk person in North Liberty are all going to be
looking at the same screen. And they'll enter in a "call for service" and the next
question is `where did it occur,' and if it's in Iowa City, the computer's going to
recognize that and it'll get shipped to the dispatch center, wherever it maybe,
and, um, then the computer's going to know to pick an Iowa City car. Now what
happens frequently is, uh, a victim doesn't know exactly, you know, the crime
may have occurred in Coralville, but if they're in our lobby, when that address is
put in, the computer says, `This is a Coralville call,' it gets sent to the center,
dispatched to the Coralville car....is whatever, whatever the nature of the call is,
they know to contact the victim in our lobby, and I see that as occurring county
wide.
O'Donnell/ Chief, what's the, uh, what's the duty of a school resource officer?
Hargadine/ Um, I've never done it, so, um, I mean, they go to a training just like many
other specialty jobs. You wouldn't just put an officer in the school without
sending them to a specific training, and uh, it varies from different jurisdictions,
but overall it's safety and security. Um, they interact with the kids. I've seen
some where, um, they're taught how to do a lesson plan and they assist the
teachers in some instances, um, it really can be as much or as little as...as the
schools want, but most of the time it's you know they think of creative ways to
get, uh, substitute teacher help in there, uh, there's nothing wrong with that.
(unable to hear person talking)
Bailey/ They're working....aren't they working on a school safety plan now?
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Correia/ ...committee and I mean I think they're...
O'Donnell/ I was curious on that because we've all read about it in the paper.
Bailey/ And your point with that particular position was that...there's external funding
available, or the expectation would be that that wouldn't be a funding issue for us
necessarily. Is that correct?
Hargadine/ Well, one of the programs federally that has not been whacked in the...in the
previous and current administration is the Cops in Schools grant program. It's
still there, but I would hate to see us get into a situation like the universal hiring
program that we bring them on and in three years when the funding is cut, okay,
who's paying. So, these are things that we'd have to enter an agreement with, uh,
in cooperation with the schools.
Correia/ Sam, I have questions about the staffing patterns, or the comparison to the other
cities. Can we go back to that? I was looking at the, um, October 5'h and noticed
for Ames, their officer per thousand is .96 and my question was, they're a
university town. I imagine Ames has a, they have a police department.
Hargadine/ Very similar to Iowa City.
Correial To Iowa City...that was one of the things I was wondering about. Did we do
comparisons of other similar cities in that there's the city police department and
there maybe the university police department?
Hargadine/ I've heard that question raised in the last two cities, `cause I've worked in two
college towns. Um, yes. The good thing about that survey is we're not the worst
staffed in Iowa. Ames is. We're the second worst. (laughter)
Correia/ In Iowa. I just wondered because I was thinking about, um, when I looked at...
UIPD has about 35 officers, um, you know with the...
Hargadine/ What you've got to add though to our side of the population is the 30,000
students. Then it's apples to apples. You can't leave off the 30,000 and then.. .
Correia/ No, absolutely not. But even just thinking about the policing of their own
property, um, policing of their residential locations. I mean, it's not insignificant.
Hargadine/ It's not, but it doesn't affect our crime rate or our reports or our calls for
service. Um, they are worried about their, you know, their jurisdiction. And they
do a fine job with their jurisdiction. It's got nothing to do with the impact on, uh,
you know, on our calls for. service.
Wilburn/ One of the issues that comes up that the Chief was pointing out in terms of, um,
comparisons with plus or minus, you know, 15, 22, 41 officers, um, there's a
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piece that the public either doesn't get, or they don't, um, necessarily, um, pay
attention to, and this is that danger with what you do with statistics, is that
you...you don't get the information, well, how are these being paid for, and you
know, too frequently we hear, `Well my property taxes are too high.' how come
Davenport or Dubuque or whatever community, you know, they're staffing levels
are better than ours, but let's compare our property tax, um, are we higher or
lower, and if theirs are lower, what other revenue sources do they have. Well,
they have gambling and they have, um, sales tax, and so, and I'm not advocating
one form or the other, but that's something you need to, if you think that it's
important that we've gotta have the staffing levels, then you may have to consider
that if we're going to hold to property tax, then property taxes, um, would have to
go up in order to pay for them, so it's a piece that doesn't, um, a few years ago we
had a chart that showed, you know, how our property tax rate compared to, uh,
the other top ten cities, but it also had just, there was like a little check as to which
had sales tax and franchise and...and gambling revenue, so it's...it's a piece that
gets left out of the puzzle, and uh, I think you have to...I agree that you have to,
rather than looking at the raw ratio number, what's going on in the environment,
um, which decisions do you...
Hargadine/ I agree, which is why I include it as a second part of that, the services that we
are not providing, or.. .
Wilburn/ That's another piece too.
Hargadine/ ...we're providing at a very low and limited capability, and...and what is it
that our citizens expect of us?
Hayek/ Chief, is there a geographic limit to the UIPD's jurisdiction? Do they not go
beyond a certain.. .
Hargadine/ No, technically they're State officers just like we are. They're commissioned
by, uh, ILEA and they can enforce laws, um, anywhere in the State, just like we
can.
Hayek/ Are they assigned to places, you know, like where The Lodge is, or all the
apartments on Johnson and...
Hargadine/ They have...you know, spread out all over the county so, um, there's time
when you may see them all over, but if they're investigating something they can
go anywhere as well. So they've got the same authority and the same basic job
function that we do. It's just that, um, the people that pay their salary want them
back on their property.
Hayek/ Well, and that's what I'm trying to get at. I mean, our University population
is...lives quite far from campus in a lot of instances, and unsupervised, you know,
private apartment complexes, and...and what I'm trying to determine is to what
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extent are those students really, uh, falling under the responsibility of your
department versus the University's department, because they're in the private
sector, far from campus.
Hargadine/ Almost all of them, to include Cora1...I mean, Coralville, it affects Coralville
PD too, because they live in both jurisdictions. I would say that's the majority of
them...live off campus somewhere. So...
Helling/ Matt, you mentioned The Lodge. Now that's not a University, uh, facility, so
they would not have jurisdiction there.
Hayek/ They what?
Helling/ They would not have jurisdiction there, and I would strongly suspect that
anything goes on there, it's going to be ICPD that gets...
Hayek/ Well, and...and that's what I'm, and the apartments on Johnson and Gilbert are
not within the jurisdiction, but they're areas of dense, uh, and populous student,
you know...
Correia/ If we...but in terms of what you were saying, that they...it's not within the
University's jurisdiction, but if...if there was a call for service, a call for help, the
University, or Iowa City needed additional help at The Lodge or anywhere, they
could be called on in similar aid type situations?
Hargadine/ I'd say that's true of all the Johnson County agencies.
Correia/ Right, right, so they are a resource...
Hargadine/ I've never been told no when we need help.
Bailey/ But insofar as jurisdiction or attention, you would say that even if it is a heavily
student populated area, they do not necessarily attend, I mean, they don't
patrol...right. (several responding)
O'Donnell/ But their primary function is University property.
Hargadine/ Absolutely, and if there's a crime on University property, they will come into
Iowa City to look for who they think did it. That's right.
Bailey/ I don't want to cut this discussion short, but I do want to be aware that we have
another presentation from Andy. Are there one or two less questions for the
Chief?
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Correia/ I just had questions about the canine unit, if that...I don't necessarily need that
to be answered now, but if we could just get maybe information in a memo about
what type, what (unable to hear).
Hargadine/ Last...in last year's budget I think we budgeted for the replacement of the
dog, but that's the cheap part of the equation.
Correia/ No, I know, I guess I just mean what does the canine unit do?
Hargadine/ Okay.
Bailey/ Mike, did you have...
Wright/ Yeah, just a clarification on the clerk typist that you're, and the records that
they're going to be working on, um, what kind of written documents are currently
scanned, what's an example?
Hargadine/ Um, most all the reports that the officers initially do are done hand-written,
and we're looking at getting away from that due to, by use of dictation, uh, if it's
a short one, they can knock it out themselves, but if it's a long narrative, I'd like,
I'd rather have someone that's a professional typist type it, um, and then matched
up to the report, and then all of our reports would be typed, uh, and sent to the
prosecutors or whoever in the criminal justice system that they go to, uh,
presently there's a lot of stuff that's hand-written that goes out to the public.
Correia/ Instead of handwriting, can...can they type it in, and have it be sort of reviewed
by somebody for.. .
Hargadine/ It takes them off the street, a lot longer.
Wright/ Should be less time than writing it out by hand, I would think.
Hargadine/ It is for me, but I've been brought up with that. You gotta, we've got officers
from, uh, one year to 40 years on, and there's a whole different, um, set of skills
there, but you know, it depends on the narrative. Probably most lengthy ones are
like an OWI report, um, those need to be probably dictated and added to the
report. Once it's dictated, you can go back out on the street. It's saved in a tape
bank until the typist brings up and...and types it out, but the officer doesn't have
to worry about it until it's done and ready for him to...to be approved, but
scanning, that just, scanning hand-written stuff for permanent archival, I never
have liked that.
Bailey/ Okay.
Hargadine/ That would be like me presenting to you guys, giving you ahand-written
document. It's just...it just bothers me so...
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Wilburn/ Well, the other piece to that too is if it's...if it's typed on computer you can do
a word search, uh, database type thing. If it's scanned in optically, you
can't...you know...
Hargadine/ It's a graphic.
Bailey/ Okay, thanks.
Hargadine/ Thank you.
Rocca/ Well, good evening. I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the scientific process that
Sam and I used to figure out who was going to go first. Flipped a coin, I won, he
reminded me he was armed (laughter) so that's how he got (laughter, unable to
hear). At any rate, we'll, uh, proceed. Before you you do have, uh, some of the
statistics, and...and I'm not going to go into those in great detail, but if you
remember a couple years ago, many of you saw a lot of these statistics, and the
trend continues to go in one...one direction, and that's upward. We have for
comparison sake the, uh, the last two years there, and I'll let you read those in
more detail, but...but our trend continues. Our call alarm continues to go up, and
a couple things drive that, and that is OSHA law, where we have to have two
people inside a structure and two people outside of a structure, minimally, before
we can do any firefighting activities, and then we have the NFPA 1710 Standard
that I reference there in my notes for you, as well, that...that really does dictate
how career fire service is deployed, uh, personnel and equipment, and so I want
you to hold on to those notions, but uh, as they have been in the past, our goal is
to respond, get our first unit on the scene in six minutes, 90% of the time, and I
break down a lot of that with, um, how we determine that. You know, we want to
get out and defibrillate, uh, a cardiac arrest patient, uh, you know within that six-
minute timeframe in order to be successful. We want to extricate a trauma victim
and have them transported to an ER facility within that goal of one hour to
increase their...their likelihood of...of surviving the incident. Um, mitigating
hazardous materials, spills or leaks, so they don't harm people, property or the
environment, and then lastly, the fire component of that, initiating our fire
suppression activities in a timely fashion in order to do that before flashover or
total room involvement occurs, uh, to increase the likelihood of a successful
rescue. And in the bottom note there, basically is an explanation of typically how
fire service resources are assembled on the scene. As I point out, our goal is to
get our first one on the scene in six minutes, 90% of the time, and I break down
the, uh, the call processing component, the turnout, the travel time, until we get on
scene, but we take two engines, an aerial ladder, and a chief officer to every
structure fire, emergency in the city, and so it takes us, our goal is to get that
second unit on scene in ten minutes so we can achieve our OSHA two-in and two-
out, but frankly our...our baselines are about 12 minutes. It's taking us longer,
and so that kind of correlates to, uh, to everything else that I've had to say. It's
taking longer. Here you can see what our actual, our baseline capability, our
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January 14, 2008 Special City Council Work Session Page 11
actual ability is based on our goal of getting there on scene six minutes, 90% of
the time. We're only doing that in six minutes, 67.1 % of the time, which is
probably a few percent less than it was in the previous year. So, again, as our
incident volume continues to increase, our ability to get out on multiple calls and
on the scene within that six-minute timeframe, it's starting to continue to slip, and
so hence our goal is not met and I think that's really important for you to put that
into context, that people call the fire department. They dia19-1-1 because they're
having one of the worst days of their life for whatever reason, and they expect
somebody to be there in a reasonable amount of time, and we believe nine out of
ten times is pretty good, but when you can't get there seven out often times,
that's questionable. I mean, you really have to look at your delivery system and
figure out what you need to do. Now, the last slide here I have, um, it does talk a
little bit about where I would put people, and I think that's a lot of what you
wanted to, uh, to get at. Fire station 4, you know, we've talked about the nine
personnel for, I think, two or three years running I've requested a...a three-year
phase-in of staffing, and that's what I've included in my budget request this year.
I continue to believe that that's the highest priority for us. We own the land. I
think you're pretty familiar with the site, um, but then of course as we staff up,
and I note in my notes here for you, how I would utilize people in the upcoming
09, 10, and 11 years. So we could staff our rescue truck 24/7, um, gradually up
there, you know, that would help alleviate some of that. Of course when we open
fire station 4, and we deploy all those people at fire station 4, our rescue truck
then goes back to cross-staffing, and that's where people have to physically take
their personal protective equipment from one truck to the other. If it's a fire call
they take the aerial ladder. If it's an emergency medical or rescue, they're going
to the rescue unit, and that's all part of that turnout time, after we've, you know,
taken the call and we know we're going somewhere. Now we have to get all the
equipment on the truck, and they got out the door, versus if they were assigned to
one unit, their gear was all laid out, and while we're only talking about maybe
thirty seconds, when you start to think about that in the context of our six minute
timeframe to get on scene with that first unit, it's a significant amount of time. So
to take it further, um, you know, I've outlined other priorities here, and many of
you have seen these before. They are based on the Strategic Plan, they're based
on the Comprehensive Plan, they are based on, um, what we believe, how we
believe the City will continue to grow and develop, um, fire station 5 could well
be in the southwest, or it could be in the south part of the City. Once Mormon
Trek and McCollister Boulevard connect, all the sewer and water's there, um, I
know and you know and we hope that...that development will occur. Well, it's
going to and it will further tax the demands of our public safety personnel. And
so, I just wanted to get this up here. I don't...I don't put the 48 personnel
required up there to scare you, but it's the reality of looking ahead and forecasting
the community's needs, and with that I'll answer your questions.
Champion/ ...interested in timeline, which you've kind of explained to us for a new fire
station, and um, hiring of firefighters to staff it. I'm not quite sure what that
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timeline would be -how long would it take to build it? Are there drawings done
for it?
Rocca/ We have a schematic design right now, not construction documents, um, probably
in, I would guess, uh, 60 to 90 days we would have construction documents ready
to go, um, potentially could be bid, you know, so we could move forward on...on
construction. Um, you know, in terms of staffing, those kinds of things, you
know, it probably takes three months to get somebody hired and through
orientation and...and their first year, really, before they're fully trained, um, but,
um, we could do that in...in three consecutive years. So...so generally those are
how the timelines would come together.
Champion/ So, make sure I understand this, so three firemen per year, and then training
for a year, and then training three more and then training three more.
Rocca/ Yeah, what I'm trying to avoid, first of all, I think we could ramp up, I mean, we
could plan to absorb those three positions three consecutive years, but it doesn't
give me nine new, fresh people that have to try to integrate into the system and
make sure we have ample training personnel, you know, ample
qualifications...it's just a little easier from that standpoint.
Wright/ Would you anticipate that, uh, with another fire station on line that we'd have to
call on Coralville or Hills or some of the other nearby departments less often?
Rocca/ Well, I think so because, you know, typically we're staffing for the routine, day-
to-day type emergencies. I think if we had a room and contents fire, the duty shift
likely would handle it, uh, but the thing that motivates us to backfill or call mutual
aid is the next call, to make sure we have the City adequately protected for the
next call. LTh, I think you raise an interesting point though because as I pointed
out earlier, we are requesting mutual aid more, did in the last couple of years, and
that's a kind of a signal that if you're routinely calling mutual aid, you may not
have the staff that you need to deal with your own emergencies. So that's a good
point, but you know, we would like to reduce that, um, we might even like to look
at other ways that we could service share more with surrounding communities.
Uh, mutually automatic type responses, things that would be mutually beneficial
there.
Bailey/ Other questions? I...I just wanted to add onto Connie's comment. I was
surprised to see the fire station programmed in FY10, rather than nine. Was that a
strategic move or just how it landed in the CIP?
Rocca/ I think it's just how it landed in the CIP. Is that correct, Dale?
Helling/ Right, with the plan to add three firefighters each year, there's no use to build it
in nine, you wouldn't be able to staff it until FY1 1.
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Bailey/ But, if we moved that up, we would potentially, I mean, what would happen if
that was programmed for FY09?
Rocca/ The construction of the fire station?
Bailey/ Yeah.
Rocca/ We could move up the hiring, I guess, in my mind it would make sense to, to start
to absorb those positions and train people.
Bailey/ If we moved up the construction, would we...we would need to move up the
hiring, yes?
Rocca/ It would make sense to.
Bailey/ Okay. Okay, thanks. Any other questions?
Rocca/ Well, thank you, and again, I did include some notes there, if you have any
questions or want to follow up, I'll be glad to try and answer those later. Thank
you.
Bailey/ Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Sam.
(6:30 P.M., Break for special formaUexecutive session; resumed work session 6:36 P.M.)
Planning and Zoning Items:
b) Consider a resolution approving the extraterritorial final plat of Lyn-Den
Heights, Part III Phase I, Johnson County, Iowa.
Davidson/ Uh, tomorrow we'll have one item that is just setting a hearing, um, and it's an item
that we would normally talk about tomorrow evening, um, I'm assuming, Madame
Mayor, that we're staying with our normal focus of not discussing things, typically when
we set hearing, or would you like to have some discussion tomorrow evening of that
item?
Bailey/ I think we'll just stay with our normal focus.
Davidson/ Okay, so we'll have the discussion when we actually hold the hearing, okay.
The, uh, other item then is an extraterritorial plat. This is a plat that is in
unincorporated Johnson County, but within the extraterritorial area that by State
law, Iowa City has the right to, uh, not only review, but actually hold to City
standards, if you wish, uh, this is out of the area which is within the City's growth
area boundary, so just to make the distinction there. It's within the area that you
have the right to review, but it is outside of the area that at this time we see as
being eventually part of the City of Iowa City. It's not part of the area that we can
sewer, uh, with the gravity sewer system that the City operates. So, it is a...is a,
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um, plat that we see being established in the unincorporated county and remaining
in the unincorporated county for the foreseeable future. This is a plat that has had
quite a bit of discussion over the years, uh, in my tenure with JCCOG we had a lot
of discussion about this plat because of the, uh, Rapid Creek Road angle and the
county road performance standards. Um, like, you can see here, this is, um, um,
Lyn-Den Heights Part III. Here is the existing Lyn-Den Heights subdivision, and
then there's another piece that's off of the aerial here. This would be the third
addition in this area here, there is an existing dwelling, uh, right here. The plat
then looks like that, it's 38 lots, and basically the developer has not been allowed
to final plat this because of the county road performance standards, and I won't go
into those unless you're interested, but in a nutshell, they have established a
threshold for a thousand vehicles a day on an oiled, chipsealed road, which is
what Rapid Creek Road is, uh, and the current traffic volume exceeds that, and so
until the road is upgraded, they will not be allowed to develop the 38 lots here.
So, what they are doing is the estate now of this, uh, developer wants to basically
separate off three parcels. One is they want to be able to establish the existing
dwelling unit here, and then basically sell of the rest of the subdivision. Uh, there
is a third parcel which is from this property line to the center line of Rapid Creek
Road that will be dedicated to, uh, the county secondary roads, uh, as a portion of
Rapid Creek Road. Um, so what this is basically designed to do the final plat is to
allow the sale of the subdivision, uh, but it will not be allowed to develop until
Rapid Creek Road is, uh, reconstructed, under the current road performance
standards. They periodically discuss, the Board of Supervisors, discuss
modifying those, but for the...at the present time it would not be allowed to
develop. LTh, and then you can see how it fits in. Here's the existing, uh,
corporate limits, uh, of Iowa City. This is the Northgate Corporate Park. Any
questions?
O'Donnell/ With development not likely to occur out there, Jeff, unless...until that roads
upgraded or improved, so we're just allowing them the ability to sell off lots?
Davidson/ Yes. You're allowing them the ability to retain...the estate would retain the
dwelling unit that's there, Mike, they would be allowed to sell the 38...and by the
way, the 38 lot subdivision has been essentially the, uh, the preliminary plat has
been approved with the stipulation that the final plat would not be approved, uh,
so there's basically a subdivision here that can be sold and once the road's
upgraded, that's the decision that the Supervisors have, is when to upgrade the
road and allow the development to occur.
Hayek/ Is this before us because of the two-mile radius?
Davidson/ Yes, that's correct. And...and we treat these differently, Matt...occasionally
we have these where we eventually see them being in the City of Iowa City
because of where our growth area boundary is located, um, we treat those a little
bit differently in terms of requiring City standards more stringently than we would
for a plat that is outside. For example, this is proposed to be...you might notice
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these lots are smaller than you normally see in the county. That's because they
are proposing what's called a package sewer treatment plant, where there'll
actually be an on-site sewage treatment plant without fall to Rapid Creek, um, if
this was established.
Correial Why are they coming to (unable to hear) now when they're...
Davidson/ So they can sell these 38 lots, this 38-lot subdivision, they want to be able to
sell. The gentleman who was developing it passed away, uh, a couple months
ago, and so the estate wants to sell it.
Correia/ ...sell it without having a final plat?
Davidson/ They want to be able to retain the existing dwelling unit that's there, and so
it's necessary to divide it into these three parts.
Dilkes/ They're not selling the individual lots, Amy. They're...we're not platting. We're
only doing a...it's confusing because they still have penciled in the (several
talking at once).
Davidson/ They are selling it as a proposed 38-lot subdivision that has been preliminary
platted, but...but with the stipulation until the road's upgraded, they would not be
able to develop any of the individual lots. Anything...any other questions?
Thank you.
Bailey/ Thanks.
Council Appointments:
Item 21. Council Appointments.
a) Coalition of Cities
b) Board of Adjustment
c) Board of Appeals
Bailey/ Um, the Coalition of Cities appointment, we talked about this a little bit at our
organizational meeting. Ross has agreed to continue as our delegate, and also
now is serving as Chair of the Metro Coalition, which is terrific for us, and I'll be
an alternate, as will Dale. So, we'll all get that...if that's acceptable to the group.
Okay? (several responding) Thanks, Ross, for doing that.
Wilburn/ You bet.
Bailey/ Thanks for serving as Chair! Tough group!
Wilburn/ I was flattered that they wanted me to...
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Karr/ I'm sorry, Ross and the alternate is...
Bailey/ I'm the alternate, and Dale will also be an alternate. Okay.
Helling/ Technically I'm not an alternate. I don't, I can't vote. You or Ross can vote. I
can't.
Wilburn/ This is an FYI, we're making an offer to a lobbyist, uh, as we speak.
Bailey/ Things are moving along, so maybe when that's done...
Wilburn/ Give a report, sure.
Bailey/ ...yeah, that'd be great. That'd be exciting. Okay, Board of Adjustment. We
have one applicant, Karen Leigh. (several speaking at once)
Wright/ ...speaking highly in favor of Karen. She was a (unable to hear)
Bailey/ Okay, Board of Appeals. We have one vacancy, and two applicants.
Hayek/ I can speak highly, uh, as to Scott McDonough. He's a friend and a colleague of
mine, and, uh, I think would make an excellent member. Is a very conscientious
builder, uh, very fair minded, and has a lot of experience in the industry.
Correia/ He was recommended to me, as well.
O'Donnell/ Yeah, me too.
Bailey/ So, do we have...four, okay. So, Scott McDonough. All right.
Agenda Items:
Item 8 Consider an ordinance amending Title 7, entitled "Fire Prevention
and Protection," Chapter 3, entitled "False Fire Alarms," to provide
that fees for false alarms be set by resolution, to clarify when a false
alarm fee is assessed, to eliminate the requirement to submit certain
information, and to amend definitions. (first consideration)
Bailey/ Um, Andy's here to talk about Item 8, and Jeff can speak to Item 9. Um, want to
go ahead. Yeah, false fire alarms.
Rocca/ Well, as you know we do have a false fire alarm ordinance currently, and we
believe it's ineffective in its current form. Right now it's more punitive, uh, than
it really is anything else. It's very difficult to enforce the provisions in that there
are two schedules. One that's for careless use, and the other one would be more
for technical failures, and there're different fee schedules, and it's just
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always...it's a fine line to determine which fee schedule to use, and also the fees
don't really reflect our actual costs of investigating the false alarm, and so what
we hope to provide, uh, the draft ordinance that you have before you, um, would
eliminate the dual schedule. We would have one schedule to work off of. It
would reflect our actual cost to go out and investigate those false alarms, um, we
did a little bit of looking into it to see just about what it might generate, what it
might mean in numbers, and it looks like based on current past history, we would
probably see about 522 false alarms that would be potentially billable, and if you
take that...a number of those would be, um, not billable, and we think about a
third of them, or 174, would actually be billable false alarms. We would propose
to bill on a quarter of an hour, I mean, we know what our hourly fees are for an
engine company or a full structure response for the two engines, the aerial and a
Chief, but typically we can go out, investigate, determine that it's a false alarm,
and be back in service within 15 minutes, and so we would look to propose those
fees generally. LJh, the full structure response is $935.00 an hour, but the quarter
hour would be $233.75. That's what we would look to charge, um, for a structure
type response. If it was a single company, an engine company, that engine
company would be $231.00 for an hour, but the quarter hour would be $57.75.
Again, that would be the generally the fee we would propose. Of those 174 then
billable, potentially billable false alarms, uh, the full structures could generate
potentially $20,000 of revenue, and the single company about $5,000 or generally
$25,000 is what we would think in terms of revenue based on this false alarm
ordinance.
Bailey/ But we're not looking at this as a revenue generator.
Rocca/ No, but I think it's important what it does mean in terms of money.
Bailey/ Questions for Andy?
Champion/ What is considered a false alarm?
Rocca/ Well, there's a number of things. It could be, uh, a smoke detector that went off
because of dust, somebody cleaning, somebody painting, uh, it could be a forklift
driver that knocks the, uh, some kind of an automatic fire protection device off the
wall, um, it could be vandalism, um, it just could be a blip in the power, a
component could fail internally, you know, within the system itself that would
cause it, batteries can go down, I mean, there's just a multitude of things that
would trigger the response, that when we would get there, check the fire alarm
panel, go to the location of the addressable system or where the device is, um, just
about name it - we found it. Popcorn can set it off, um, on and on and on.
Champion/ So, Andy, just explain to me, because you said they all would not be billable,
so what makes it billable versus not billable?
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Rocca/ If we were to go to a property, um, in the course of 12 months three times, the
first two false alarm responses to that same address or property would not be
billable. We would start to bill on the third response within that time frame.
And...and again, want to emphasize that what we're proposing here is not
punitive, because there's a component in here that allows at the request of the
owner occupant to turn what would be the fee, um, for the false alarm into
improvements in their system, because that's what we want. We want a system
that we can rely on.
Champion/ Right. Okay.
Rocca/ That's really the emphasis.
Champion/ Just wanted to clarify that.
Rocca/ Yes.
Bailey/ Other questions for Andy?
Dilkes/ Connie, too, if you look in the ordinance, there's a definition of false fire alarm,
and so, if for instance would include someone, you know, the willful act of
someone other than the property owner...you know, there's an element of fault
here too, so...
Bailey/ Thanks for sticking around.
Rocca/ Sure, thank you.
Item 9 Consider a resolution approving and authorizing execution of an
agreement for the administration of four downtown Iowa City
information kiosks by and between the city of Iowa City and the
Downtown Association of Iowa City.
Bailey/ Jeff, did you want to go through Item 9, or did anybody have any questions about
the kiosk. I wanted a clarification of, um, sort of the charging the fees, that sort of
thing.
Davidson/ Yeah, this is something that's been discussed for some time, uh, with the
Downtown Association, um, you know, I think the primary motivations are... are
two. One is to keep the kiosk more current, and the second is that, uh, to decrease
the amount of City staff time that's involved. You know, I'll be honest with you.
These Dave kind of been the orphan children of the City in terms of who's
responsible for what, and we've kind of managed to get, you know, the...the
Parks, uh, CBD maintenance does maintain them on kind of an ad-hoc, as needed
kind of basis. Um, there's one of them that was damaged during the construction
of Plaza Towers by the Library that actually looks real good right now because we
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January 14, 2008 Special City Council Work Session Page 19
completely reconstructed it and repainted it, and we may end up doing that with
all those, um, but clearly to...to get somebody who's really interested in...in
keeping them up and keeping them current. The DTA did express some interest
in doing that, and so, um, you know, basically there are four kiosks, four of the
larger kiosks, and one smaller one that just has two sides. We're going to retain
the smaller one that has two sides, uh, use it for the poetry in public project and
also have maps and information like that. The four four-sided kiosks then will be
under the DTA's control, and two of the sides, as Regenia alluded, will be used
for basically fundraising for the DTA, and you can see in the agreement that that's
with a lot of stipulations, and I think, um, you know, if you read through those A
through H, they allay a lot of the concerns about, you know, beer advertisements
and that kind of thing because I'm sure that's what they would be filled up with.
So, um, you know, we hope to have things that reflect positively on the downtown
in there. Uh, the other two sides then will be retained for, uh, community news,
non-profit organizations, uh, maps and directory type stuff, uh, and we will be
involved in those. So, um, the other thing that I think is real key is that the City
can go in and remove inappropriate materials whenever. We don't have to have
the DTA's permission. We can just go in and do it, sure we would meet with
them and work that out afterwards. So, um, we're still in charge of maintaining
them all and...and you know, we may want to ratchet that up a little bit. And then
we also retain the newspaper vending machines. So...
Bailey/ Questions? Thanks.
Davidson/ Okay, thank you.
Bailey/ Other agenda items?
Item 5 Consider adoption of the Consent Calendar as presented or amended.
b) Receive and File Minutes of Boards and Commissions
7. Parks and Recreation Commission: November 14, 2007
Correia/ I had a question. I was looking at the minutes from Parks and Rec, about the
Sand Lake CAT grant, and I was just wondering about the status (unable to hear).
The, uh, agenda item, the Parks and Rec minutes from November. So, in the
minutes it said that the application had been put together, but then they realized
they needed to go and get, uh, support from the Board of Supervisors and other
private. I'm just wondering what the status of that is, is there a deadline
that...application deadline?
Bailey/ I sat in on a meeting with Terry, the grant writer, and Alaina Santizo from, um,
Vision Iowa, and this was some months ago to clarify some of the expectations
for application, and those were the things that came out. Now, I don't know
necessarily where Parks and Rec, or the Parks and Rec Foundation, where they
are. I agreed to approach the Board of Supervisors, and also get some of the
Vision Iowa, because I serve on that board, Vision Iowa members, um, to
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approach the Board of Supervisors about their support, but I don't know, Dale, do
you have a sense of where they are? I just told Terry to contact me.
Correia/ I mean, these minutes are from November, and in the minutes it said that that
hadn't happened yet, and so I guess I'm wondering now that it's January, it's
budget season.
Bailey/ ...we are, uh, we're spending down a lot of the cash... funding, so if we expect to
actually get that money from the State, we shouldn't move this project along,
because um, funds are encumbered out to 2010 for projects, 2011 (mumbling)
Helling/ My understanding is that it's...it has been brought up or is on the agenda for the
Commission, and also the Foundation, uh, if you want to, you know, a more
informed status report, I'll just ask Terry to put something together and we'll
throw it in the packet next time.
Correia/ Because I guess I was wondering if request had been made to (mumbling)
requirement of the application?
Bailey/ Have we approached them?
Correia/ (unable to hear) ...status of that is.
Dilkes/ Can we ask you to just speak a little bit more clearly...I'm having a heck of a
time hearing. I think part of it is your back is to us.
Correia/ I'm sorry. (several talking) I was just wondering the specific status on the
request for the matching grant, matching funding from the Board so that we can
submit this application. So, that's what I'm wondering about.
Bailey/ Right, and I asked Terry to contact me when he had a more final document ready,
and a more final budget to take to the Board of Supervisors, because that's
typically what they want to see. So...okay, other agenda items?
Item 4 Outstanding Student Citizenship Awards.
Bailey/ Um, I just want to speak to Item 4, the Outstanding Student Citizenship Awards.
I want to take a different approach with that and involve more Council Members
with that, so tomorrow night, um, for the Lincoln Elementary I'd like, um, Mayor
Pro Tem O'Donnell to help because that's in your neighborhood, so if you could
step forward and help me recognize those students, and if one of the northsiders
would be interested in the Horace Mann, um, Mike or Matt, I mean, I know that
it's a block away from my house too, but I think that would be kind of fun to
(several talking)...okay, so I think that would be fun, so I'll do a little
introductory remarks and then let you guys take over for the awards part. I think
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it would be fun to have more adults surrounding those poor scared students. I'm
sure that they'll...okay, other agenda items?
Council Time•
Bailey/ Um, do we have Council time items?
O'Donnell/ I still am, uh, concerned about the disability parking in front of the Library.
Bailey/ Where are we...getting some information...the Library Board's going to discuss
that.
O'Donnell/ They're going to discuss that?
Helling/ Yeah, Susan and I talked about that. She's going to follow up with the Board
and with parking division and see what they come up with in terms of
recommendation.
Bailey/ Okay.
Champion/ I have a, this will be the third time I mention it, and I won't mention it again
if there isn't any support for it, which is unusual. I will quit. But the only
commercial loading zones we have are on Iowa Avenue. The only loading zones
that aren't used are also on Iowa Avenue. And since all the other loading zones in
downtown are 15-minute loading zones, usable by anybody, I don't understand
why we have two commercial loading zones that are never used.
Bailey/ Do we have others who would like to add this to a pending discussion item list?
Correia/ Sure.
O'Donnell/ I would like to talk about that.
Bailey/ I don't know if it came up in the downtown study, but it certainly relates to some
of the work we're doing, so let's put it on a list. There you go!
Champion/ Thank you!
Hayek/ Can we sort of combine it with a discussion of, um, commercial vehicle
congestion in the area. Is that kind of why you're bringing this up?
Champion/ Well, they're all parking in front of my store in the middle of Dubuque Street.
They never, which is fine if they're only there to unload, but what bothers me is
nobody else can park there but them, and they have commercial loading zones
that they never use!
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Bailey/ So, you would like to expand the discussion to commercial vehicle congestion
downtown.
Champion/ What happened with that group we had discussing that at one time? Bob
Elliott was on that. Somebody from the Chamber.
Bailey/ We'll figure it out. Okay? And we'll put it on the schedule and talk about it.
Probably not this month, is that okay?
Champion/ Well, yeah, that's fine. But, I mean, I just think it's, since it's the only
commercial loading zones downtown...it's very interesting.
Bailey/ Okay.
Helling/ We'll watch too and see if that pops up on the radar for the folks that are
meeting to talk about the market niche analysis and all that, because some of these
things may pop up and you may want to get some feedback from that group
before we put it on your agenda.
Bailey/ Okay. Other Council time? Um, I have an item that, um, I would like to treat the
Economic Development Committee packets just like we treat any other boards or
commission packets. They're typically in our information packet, often after the
fact, um, which uses a lot of resources. I mean, half of this packet is, um,
Economic Development, and those are available on line, if that's acceptable to
people. Any concerns?
Correia/ Would we...when we had, I mean, I'm particularly interested in the small, the
CDBG economic development fund, so if we did that, when we had the item on
the agenda, uh, would that include the application, so we would know more
about.. .
Bailey/ We could...I think we could do that. I mean, also, the packet is available on line,
so that's another alternative, but if you, when you want to see when we're
considering items as we are tomorrow night, you would want to see the
application at that time? I think that's doable. Okay. Did you have a question?
Wright? I just, I'm always concerned...I can be a (unable to understand) for paper in
that, uh, we have a very good high-speed internet connection at home. It also
goes down about once a month for a couple of days.
Bailey/ Well, you know, we could view it as a cost containment issue too...using the
internet more for this sort of thing, but...but let's try it this way and if it becomes
a problem, then we can re-evaluate. I think that's acceptable. Great. And then,
just to get a sense. I think you brought this up to me, Mike, when we were
chatting about getting a sense of what upcoming community events are
happening, just to make sure we have some representation from the City. Are
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there any upcoming events that we should be aware of? I know that the Chamber
has an event this Thursday night. I'll be doing, I'll be attending the social hour.
Will others be attending the Chamber dinner?
Hayek/ I'll be at the social hour.
Correia/ I'll probably be at the social hour.
Bailey/ Okay.
Karr/ If, just a reminder, we do need to pay ahead and make reservations, and the only
reservation I had for the social hour was for Regenia, so if there is anyone else
who wishes to go and wishes to do it at City expense, I need to know that.
Bailey/ Can you describe what the policy or the approach is to doing that, since we have
two new Members?
Karr/ As, very quickly, as you get an invitation as a Council Member and wish to attend,
uh, please just give me a call, and I usually will wait until the deadline date to
make a group reservation, and accordingly we would charge it to a City charge or
ask for one invoice with the total breakdown. So if you just drop me an email or
give me a call when you get that and are interested in going. Then if there's a
ticket, I'll facilitate getting the tickets to you. Often it's just a reservation.
Bailey/ And then I know the Housing Summit is coming up, a week from this Friday.
Are Members planning to attend?
Correia/ I'm attending.
Hayek/ Probably attending.
Wright/ I believe so.
Bailey/ I will be at the employee awards and then have to go to Des Moines, so it's good
to know that it'll be, that will be covered. Okay, any other events that we should
be aware of? This is something I want to talk about at work sessions so we have a
City presence at the community events. I think that's really important, and
between seven of us, we should be able to cover those, um, and it makes us aware
of things that we don't necessarily get specific invitations for. Okay? All right.
We've added something to our pending discussion item. I don't think we
necessarily need to go through that. We have a pretty busy January and February,
um, let's take aten-minute break and then move into the budget and hiring
priorities discussion. So, at ten after 7:00. (BREAK)
Budget/Hiring Priorities:
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Bailey/ Okay. So, um, budgeting, and we talked about sort of the hiring priorities, or...or
perhaps we should consider, you know, this in sort of what are our goals for the
2009 fiscal year budget specifically, related to personnel. I mean, we could frame
it like that as well. So...we've heard the needs today from the Police Department
and the Fire Department. And we know what the requests are. So how do we
want to move forward on this? One option that's been presented, and we've
discussed, is passing the budget with the positions in it, um, the two police
officers and the three firefighters in fiscal year 09, but not necessarily adding
them to the three-year financial plan, and setting some decision points about how
we would move forward (mumbling) that program. That might be one way to
approach it.
Champion/ Well, could we...oh, I'm sorry. (several talking at once)
Bailey/ We approve a budget with the additional personnel in it, but our three-year plan
does not show, um, it'll show the additional personnel we've added, but not the
additional three firefighters in the next year and three firefighters in the following
year, and that we set up some decision points or some times when we, even
outside of the budget, before we do next year's budget, for example, and talking
about it in the fall, if we're on track to see those in the next year's proposed
budget. So in 2010, in our three-year plan, it wouldn't show an additional three
firefighters. That would be one way to approach it, with some, um, some decision
points and some time, a schedule, when we could make those decisions. It's
nothing, I'm not necessarily proposing that. I'm just putting it out there for
discussion. I mean, go ahead.
Correia/ Well, I fee1...I want to see the nine firefighters programmed, um, where I'm not,
I'm still not set with how to program in new additional personnel in the Police
Department. I mean, I know the Police Chief gave us his recommendation, um,
you know, at this point if I were to prioritize based on what I hear from the
community about where they would like to see additional police personnel, it's in
the crime prevention area, which he had as his second priority. Um, and I
certainly think there's probably some evidence to suggest that crime prevention
could bring down the need for additional patrol, if you're preventing (unable to
hear), but I mean we've had, there have been calls to the Police Department about
Neighborhood Watch programs specifically, as Sam has said, as the old signs
have gone down because they're not in good shape anymore. People have called
and said, `We want a new sign," and Police Department says, `Well, we don't
have a Neighborhood Watch program anymore,' and so, and that was something
that had also been one of the recommendations that the Violence Against Women
Task Force is going to start looking at, at our next meeting, as that group, as well.
Champion/ Well, I don't want anything in the budget that we can't pay for. I think we
have to put in, um, the nine or whatever it was, 32, how many, about the front
desk at the Police station. I mean, those people have to be there. (several talking)
Fourteen. This is 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
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Bailey/ Five community service officers is what (several talking)
Champion/ Um, and maybe those will be paid for by the money we now use for
dispatchers.
Correia/ Well, it looks like, when we look at the approved for 2010 on page 39, it looks
like what's...in here for 2010 takes into consideration that (mumbles) dispatchers
that are going to the Joint Communication Center, so we're actually in good shape
that year.
Champion/ I mean, those are imperative. You can't run a police station without
somebody at the front desk.
Correia/ Right, and I mean, I still would like to talk about the options for having a
renovated lobby with maybe cross-trained. I mean, I don't really know at this
point, but that...when it's slow over that, you know, 7:00 P.M. to 7:00 A.M. time
that they are (mumbling) clerk typist type duties, that are there and trained to
handle emergencies. I don't know. I'd like to think outside the box on this one.
Bailey/ So you're interested, Connie, in programming in the nine firefighters, and the five
community service officers that the Police Department has asked for. As well as
the two additional officers?
Champion/ No, no. But not carrying forth with money for the nine fire department hires.
I think...I think they're my priority after the desk people, which I think will be
paid for. I don't think it's going to be a money problem, um, but I think it's up to
us to get some way, or to fund these nine firefighters that we desperately needed,
and that's why I thought we were going to talk about hiring priorities. I mean, do
we put a freeze on hiring? Do we...and have to approve all hires and what
departments they're going to...so we can come up with money for these police
officers? I mean, or firemen. How are we going to pay for them?
Hayek/ Well, I think we're starting to conflate the issues of our staffing needs and how
we pay for those needs.
Bailey/ I think...I think first and foremost I think we have to set a goal.
Champion/ Well, that's my goal. (several talking at once)
Bailey/ And that's what I'm interested in hearing, is there...
Correia/ Firefighters.
Bailey/ Is there a consensus on what direction we're going, and then we have to...then
we'll have a dollar amount and then we can figure out how...so, other thoughts?
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Wilburn/ I'd still like to phase the nine in over, uh, over the years, if we could. I think it
would be important to just make a decision, um, and go ahead and budget them
over the, uh, full three-year balance plan. I think given concerns about showing
our intentions related to our...our, uh, bond rating, um, you've got a history of
showing that we're looking down the road and how we're handling our, so I think
that gets away from us being planful.
Bailey/ Okay.
Wilburn/ I also think, uh, it, uh, doesn't send a helpful message in terms of our
commitment to getting it staffed if we, um, if we do it for one year or do, do nine
or do three for one year. I think it's, uh, you know, we all heard from the last
campaign that the public wants to see it in place, but, uh, if you don't show that,
yes we plan to...that we've got to do that. I, um, you know, earlier we had the
conversation, uh, I think it was in December about, uh, time gets away from me.
It was December, I'm not sure, about our comfort level with the amount of our
balance to carry over, or what's...um, the 30% reserve (several responding) um,
I'd be willing to, you know, take a 1 or 2% reduction to get us there, and also
talked about the possibility of using the, I think it was like $50,000 from the
Economic Development we set aside towards one of those, um, but also, I mean,
doing those showing that we're showing, uh, that we're reestablishing our
priority, an example of the Economic Development, and I would use the argument
that, um, you know, since several of our...since our commercial area out there
expressed the concern that, you know, that infrastructure support is an economic
development thing, uh, that trying to, uh, be flexible and compromise in terms of
wanting to use some of those reserved funds, but I also think we should look at,
you know, the property tax increase to...to show that we're doing the sustaining
of putting it in place.
Champion/ Yes, that's my questions, how are we going to sustain that money...
Wilburn/ And I'm suggesting that...that in addition to pulling down some of that,
because that's an annual economic development contribution that...is that
correct? Bi-annual, so I'm showing that we're doing a slight reprioritization
there, moving it towards that, that and to draw down, to not tax to keep that
reserve up too high, but also planning for, uh, a property tax increase to...to
sustain that.
Champion/ And where would that tax increase come from? We're already at the
maximum levy. (several responding)
Bailey/ So other, um, just talking about, okay, so that was pretty clear about what goals.
mean, what are the hiring priorities, I mean, what direction do we want to move,
and then how to pay for it, which Ross has laid out some options. I mean, is there
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a general consensus that we want to see three firefighters programmed in across
three...each year in the three-year plan, or...
O'Donnell/ I think it's responsible to...to program them in like that.
Wright/ I would agree.
O'Donnell/ And I a1so...I really see a need on the Police Department, as well. It's just,
you know, and it's funny, Ross, that's a good point about the reserve. You know,
that's been my concern for a number of years, and uh, I would...I would go,
rather than 2%, I would go, uh, 5%, um, as well, and the parking fine surcharge, I
think, would be...would be a great, uh, example. I would take $100,000 from
economic development, and I would, uh, I would somehow take a look at that
deer control. I just...I just think it's absurd to spend that much money on a yearly
basis to do something which essentially we could...could be generating income
on.
Bailey/ So let's talk a little bit about, um, I think there's general consensus about the
firefighter positions. I mean, that's what I'm hearing.
Hayek/ (several talking) Let me add one thing, I mean, I don't know whether the best
approach is three per year for three years, or five in year two and four, and year
three. I mean, we gotta get to nine. You can't open a station without nine, and
we have to have them onboard when the station is completed, otherwise we're
paying interest on borrowed money, on an empty building, um, so we have to
have them, but whether we hire three each year for three years or go about it
another way, I don't know, and I would, you know, look to the Chief for... for
instruction on that. Um...
Wilburn/ When we had told him about phasing them, he came up with the idea of phasing
(several talking at once)
Bailey/ Um, and that would, it sounds like that would be programmed in the CIP in 2010.
So, I mean...
O'Donnell/ I think that's responsible with training also, rather than have...I got that out
of Andy tonight...
Wright/ ...three that are, have had a couple years training, by the time a station opens.
So...
Correia/ So you're not putting all new people.
Wright/ Yeah.
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Hayek/ Yeah, but I agree with Ross, I mean, we've got to make, if we're going to do it,
we've got to make the commitment, staffing commitment. It helps staff forecast
and it's a message to the public. But then we also need to decide police.
Bailey/ Yeah, let's talk about the police officers, and let's not talk necessarily about how
we're going to pay for it. Let's talk about what we want to see the staffing or
personnel, or is there consensus there? There's two police officers, plus five, um,
community service officers proposed for the desk duties that, um, will be shifted
with the Joint Communication Center. So...
Wright/ Yeah, I, uh, I can support the request for the two additional officers, going out,
uh, the Chief did outline his priorities, which may not necessarily where I'd want
to put the officers right away, but they're all areas of need, fairly well
documented.
Correia/ ...interested in the crime prevention unit.
Wright/ As the first priority? Yeah, I could go along with that.
Champion/ What was...wasn't that his first priority?
Correia/ His second.
Wright/ No, his first was the.. .
Champion/ Well, I'm not willing to specify what the policemen would be hired for. I
think that's why we have a Police Chief (several talking at once)
Bailey/ We can direct (several talking)
Correia/ ...I mean, I think that...I mean, I absolutely understand the difference between
the Iowa City Police Department and the UI Police Department, but even just
looking at, um, Ames and the way, I mean, their municipal police department is
less staffed than ours. We essentially have 70 over...so if we have 73 and UIPD
has 35, we have over 90 police officers, sworn, state-trained police officers, now
all with firearms, um, to help police the city, um, I mean, a good portion of square
footage just even property of the city is University property, based on, um, our
increased funds coming in to the fire department, um, I think people are asking for
crime prevention. They're asking for police on the...community policing, um,
certain neighborhoods are asking for Neighborhood Watch, um, so I mean, I think
those are things the public wants. So I would be willing to try and, um, prioritize
what the public's asking for regarding police protection.
Champion/ You know, Amy, I think that's micromanaging.
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Wright/ I don't agree. I think it's perfectly legitimate for the Council to have the
directive.
O'Donnell/ I really feel that...
Wright/ ...general policy.
O'Donnell/ ...patrol would be...patrol was the Chief's number one priority, and I think
the three officers in patrol is in a sense crime prevention.
Correia/ But crime prevention are certain programs that we have had and that we
can't...the Neighborhood Watch and the community policing.
Bailey/ (several talking) ...this isn't necessarily, unless it's tied to you making this a
priority, this isn't necessarily something we have to discuss tonight what the, um,
policy recommend...have a further discussion with the Chief about, I mean, I
think he's very open to that, um, about policy direction and what we'd like to see,
but the question really on the table is, are we supportive of two additional police
officers, in the budget?
Wright/ I would say yes.
Hayek/ I am.
O'Donnell/ Yes.
Bailey/ Okay.
Helling/ Um, are you talking about FY09 only? Or are you talking about...you know, the
budget shows...
Bailey/ Let's talk about that.
Wright/ He's got those.. .
Hayek/ It seems to me that the fire personnel issue is different, I mean, because we're
having to ramp up our staffing for a new fire station that comes on line in a couple
three years, um, and so I...I suppose I would be comfortable with, you know, a
commitment, athree-year commitment on the fire staffing issue, but taking the
police needs on a more year-by-year basis. Um, I...I don't know. I'd be
interested to see what other people think about that.
Bailey/ What do other people think about that?
Champion/ Well, I like that idea too, just because I'm just worried about how we're
going to pay for it.
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Bailey/ iJh-huh.
O'Donnell/ That's always a problem. (laughter)
Bailey/ We will wrestle with soon. Um...
Wilburn/ I think too if we, if we indicate to the Chief our...the Police Chief, that
we're...we're interested in, we'll give you two, we're interested in trying to
continue to figure out how we're going to continue to ramp that up. He maybe
more willing to consider, and in conversations with us, about the possibilities
about some of these other positions that could be funded by grants, or simply give
the indication that we're looking at moving that direction, then, uh, that's...that's
more than just saying well we'll just get a grant and worry about how to pay for it
later. We're...we're moving in that direction, and overall, I still think, uh, with
both of these departments...I mean, we're indicating in a...we're trying to attend
to the ramping up our public safety to improve the growth the community's gone
through, uh, the past five, ten years. I think...I think that combined with saying
we'll do a re-prioritization of some funds directed towards public service that we
will, um, we will not be so, um, stringent, as stringent with amount of carry-over
per year, also with moderate property tax relief. I think that's an argument that
we can make, given that there's no new sources of funding out there and the other
communities that we're being compared to in terms of public safety level, um,
that they've got money from sources that we're choosing not to have in this
community, and so because of that, we're trying to attend to all of those things.
I...I think that's an argument that we can make and stand by.
Bailey/ Okay, so two police officers in FY09, and then continue to evaluate our
capabilities and our position, as we go through future years? Is that what I'm
hearing from people?
Wright/ I could live with that. It'd be ideal to have it built into the budget going out, but I
think this is a workable start.
Bailey/ Well, and one version I think of a tough budget is going to have to be that we
don't just have the opportunity to deal with the budget in January. We're going to
have to talk about the budget, and we're going to have to check in to make sure
we're on this path in a sort of fiscally-responsible way. So, I think that we'll be
talking about budget a lot more in the upcoming years than we ever have in the
past. So, if we set off on this path, we've got to check in to make sure it's still
working for us.
Hayek/ Question from one of the newcomers, I mean, is it...do we typically plan concrete
staffing changes over multi-year periods of time? Are we in this situation because
of the fire station mostly, I mean, or...
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Helling/ Typically we don't, um, the reason is primarily goes back to the memorandum
that you were considering, the resolution, which specified nine firefighters and
seven police officers. Typically we would do it on an annual basis.
Bailey/ But I think Ross' point about, you know, signaling intent and the planfulness, I
think, makes a lot of sense about the way we do business.
Wilburn/ And that's what we do with our five-year capital improvement plan. We...we
plan out these bigger, higher ticket infrastructure type, um, items. It gives an
indication to the public and to developers, builders that, uh, this is the direction
we're going. If you don't like the direction step forward and...and ask us to move
something so I think it parallels that.
Helling/ As you make these decisions (coughing, unable to hear) we revise this and so
keep you apprised of what, what the projections are, um, and I think, I would
hope that we will take that track of...of making the budget kind of a year-round
thing, and start looking, not waiting until next January to see, you know, what
decisions to make to...to pay for it, that we should be looking at ways to raise
those funds, to make sure that your fund balance stays adequate, and that that
percentage is at a level that you want to keep it at.
Bailey/ I think budget will be on our pending list all, as, um, going forward with this
plan. Okay, let's...(several talking)...let's talk a little bit about, um, the five
community service officers and what we'd like to do with that. I mean, that was
part of the presentation tonight, and I think it's, you know.. .
Champion/ That's going to be the last quarter.
Bailey/ Of fiscal year 09, but once again, that is something that would, I mean, we might
not necessarily need the signal, but it's going to be an on-going need unless we
find a different approach. So...
Champion/ Well, even if we find a different approach, they're still going to have to be
trained as community service.
Bailey/ Training isn't...
Correia/ That was my question. Community service officers don't wear weapons?
Champion/ No.
Helling/ Right. And those are...they're built in for all three years. The last three months
of 09, and then fully staffed. That's what's in your budget right now.
Bailey/ But if they were...oh, go ahead.
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Champion/ So even if we decide to do something different with the lobby, those people
would still have to be trained as community service operators, to deal with people
who are coming to the police station.
Bailey/ I would imagine if we do something different with the lobby, and you know,
Kevin said this was his vision, but I would imagine that we...that there would
need to be specialized training for people who encounter the public, um, in a
lobby setting, or even in a building setting. Is that, I mean, are people trained in
customer service and other issues of dealing with difficult people and.. .
O'Malley/ Yes.
Bailey/ ...those kinds of things?
O'Malley/ The people that I was going to have...to be in the front desk, or changing out
the front desk, would be qualified like our cashiers, that can handle utility bills,
questions like that, uh, parking situations, and just who do you need to see in the
building type, just more general in nature, standard operating procedures that
customer service officers have.
Correia/ (several talking) Well, I was just wondering, so there could be...there could be a
situation where we have cross-trained people, where we have a 24/7 city, that any
time if the community, if we have a lobby where you see the police department
person's there, instead of going around the corner, however it's redone, that
whoever's there, whether it's two people during the day, one people over the
night, but they're crossed trained so anybody if they want to come in to pay their
bill, they come in, their water bill, any time during a 24-hour period, or want to
talk to a police officer, they come in and that person's trained to handle.
Champion/ I don't know. I think it's...it seems a little impractical to me. I could
understand moving all the cashiers down here and that kind of thing, but those
community service operators, they need to be behind secure glass. (several
talking)...so furious when they pay a parking ticket, or, I mean, when they come
to get their car from the tow place.
O'Malley/ I might want to interject. The type of...when I envision that lobby, I envision
mostly docile people wanting to pay their parking ticket, not people coming in
restrained, being dragged through to the Police Department, uh, or being in line,
fighting with somebody...
Champion/ Right.
O'Malley/ ...in that respect, I think from a dollar savings that's a good idea to try and
combine them, but I think from a public service point of view, it'd be very
difficult to, uh, not scare people out of the lobby.
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Champion/ Yeah, if you're somebody here paying their parking tickets or paying their
water bill, or getting trash stickers, they don't want to be next to somebody who's
getting their car out of tow, who's irate and nasty and swearing and screaming,
and I've been at the Police station when they're doing that. It's not pleasant. I
mean.. .
Bailey/ Sometimes in a coffee shop you're next to someone who's swearing and
screaming (laughter).
Champion/ One of my kids actually did that, but, I mean, I think keeping that Police
Department separate from the rest of the public is not a, I mean, I would not want
to stand by one of those people who are mad at the police for one reason or
another. I would not want to be standing next to them under any circumstances. I
just back up, back into the lobby.
Correia/ What about, should we move our Police Department to the Joint Communication
Center? Why does the Police Department need to be in the City Hall?
Bailey/ That hasn't been discussed, or...nor has it been indicated as part of the
programming for the Communication Center, so if that's a direction, it'd be great
to know by Friday when the consultant, or Thursday, when the consultants are in
town.
O'Donnell/ I think...I think the Police Department belongs here, and I agree with Connie.
There's a lot of difference in someone coming in and saying, `Gee, I'd like to pay
my water bill,' and somebody behind them saying, `Where's my car?' You know,
and not many people have ever been given a ticket and felt good about the officer
that just did it. You know? So I think that has, there has to be a separation there.
Wright/ The police are also dealing with a lot of folks, uh, and I've been in the
department when this is going on in the reception area who, let's just say they're
"mentally educated."
O'Donnell/ That's right, that's good! (laughter)
Champion/ I like that better.
Wright/ Um, something's not right. Somewhere they, and these folks can get very upset
and take a swing, and I don't think we want that in a public reception area.
(laughter)
Champion/ Plus sometimes they're in big trouble too, and...
Bailey/ Although I would want all of our people prepared to deal with mentally agitated
people, which I assume that they are. So, what I'm hearing is, um, people are
interested in funding the five community, I mean, generally. Amy's...wants to
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look at some creative approaches, which I am inclined to...to want to look at, um,
but generally we're interested in moving ahead on five, the request?
Hayek/ What are the odds we're going to need them in the last quarter?
Bailey/ I hope that they're good. Um, I become more skeptical every day. So, I think
we'll have a good sense by the end of the month, with the consultants for the
Communication Center are in this Thursday and Friday.
Helling/ I think the quarter is, that's sort of a safe timeframe. It maybe that we won't
need to hire all of them for the whole quarter either. Um, for a variety of reasons.
We may have people who are already versed. We may have, uh, and I have no
idea about this, but I do know that a number of our dispatchers were front desk
personnel in the Police Department, and then we cross-trained everybody to be a
dispatcher, um, I'm not, I don't know that all of them will want to go to the...to
the Joint Communication Center. They may opt to take one of these CSO
positions and stay back here. Um, but I think that the maximum we would spend
in FY09 would be five of them for a quarter, I suspect it would be less. Just one
other thing while we're on that, one thing that was mentioned was a 24/7 paying
bills. I have to think about that. I don't know that I'm real comfortable with
somebody out here all night handling cash, uh, having cash available, uh...
Champion/ You can do it in these boxes out here anyway.
Helling/ (several talking)...yeah, kiosk or something like that.
Bailey/ Um, well that's another...anotherpfan for another day, I think. Um, so there is
consensus about moving forward, did you have any... any.. .
Hayek/ No, I mean, if, you know, if we need five to replace the dispatchers who are
leaving, and that's going to happen, we gotta do it. Five.
Bailey/ All right. So, how do you want to pay for this?
Correia/ Well, so if...we're talking about $50,000 from the General Fund Economic
Development.
Champion/ That money is allocated every year, but it's not always spent. So, that's kind
of, it hasn't been spent for quite a while so...
Correia/ ...then go in large and getting more...
Hayek/ I can't hear you.. .
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Correia/ ...General Fund balance. I mean, it's money that we set aside so it is there, and
then so that's part of the reason if it's not spent is why we get higher General
Fund cash balances, because then it.. .
Champion/ Well, then, that's fine. I think we can use that.
O'Donnell/ 50 to 100.
Correia/ Okay, and then the deer control...
Helling/ How much are we talking about?
Correia/ Well, we have 50 on the table, so...
Helling/ Okay, don't write anything down yet, okay.
Bailey/ Well, in FYO...FY10, I mean, we free up about $750,000 if we...if we would
project emergency communications out, FY10 we won't need $750,000 to go to
our emergency communications. I mean, it's...
Champion/ That's great!
Helling/ That is programmed into the budget, I mean, it's in the budget right now.
(several responding)
Bailey/ So that's one of the ways we expect to cover it, right?
Correia/ In terms of this...this year, you're saying we're going into...
Bailey/ FY09 it won't, it doesn't hit, right.
Helling/ But even all the projections and everything for it, FY10, 11 and beyond have
that...that, uh, reduced amount built in, so there's not any new money defined.
O'Donnell/ Are the TIF's coming off line also programmed in there?
Helling/ Um, yes.
O'Malley/ In the last spreadsheet I gave you they were.
O'Donnell/ Okay, they were.
O'Malley/ We'll be changing pages in the financial plan.
Correia/ And then the deer control, so we're spending $80,000 a year on deer control?
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Champion/ That's a fireman.
Correia/ Could we...could we spend $50,000, I mean, I think we're going to have some
deer control issues. We cannot do anything, um, to control for safety reasons.
Could we spend $50,000 on deer control and free up $20,000?
Champion/ We did years without any deer control.
Wilburn/ Well, the issue is control, and being able to stay at a certain...certain level, uh,
per acre or whatever it is of deer.
Bailey/ Right.
Wilburn/ So if you, if you don't control one year, then there's a...robust year, then you'll
end up paying for double the work, or triple the work.
Helling/ Well, we'll just be able to take fewer deer, and then we'll see what happens with
the buildup, but again, remember, this is a long-term commitment (mumbling).
Correia/ I know (several talking) yeah. But, I mean, if we're saying...that's why I'm not
saying that we would take all of it, and then look at it. I'm saying if we maintain
$50,000 in the deer control, and pull out that $20,000.
Bailey/ Yeah, I wouldn't want to zero that out.
Correia/ No.
Champion/ So, I mean, could we spend $80,000 so...
Correia/ $30,000, I was doing the math wrong.
Wilburri/ I think Dale's point is what you're saying, whatever, um, sharpshooters you hire
for the urban deer kill, you're essentially saying, `What can you do for us,'
(several talking) for less money, as opposed to...
Helling/ You're going to tell me what you want to spend on deer control, and that's
what.. .
Champion/ $50,000.
Correia/ $50,000. And then this whole...
Bailey/ ...successful this year.
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Correial ...Airport funding (laughter) the Airport funding where we have an informal
policy that we'll match up to $100,000. What have we, how has that been
trending last five years?
O'Malley/ Last five...I don't think any of those years we've gone up to $100,000.
Correia/ But how much have we spent? So we've, but we've set aside $100,000 in our...
O'Malley/ Haven't set aside anything. It comes right out of cash balances.
Bailey/ So as those become available, we find funds to have, to match. (several talking)
It's really not new money.
Correia/ Okay, then the other thing I'm wondering about is the Library 8.10 tax levy. If
we reduce, not reduce past dollar amount, but starting from this year, reduce the
recommended General Fund levy by $50,000, and I'd be willing to say to them
we expected, other people might feel differently, we expected out of their rent
revenue that we would be paying $50,000 to pay down the debt. They're getting
more rent revenue than we expected, and they're wanting to spend that and not
reduce...I mean, I'm willing to go by what we planned and allow them that
flexibility in their budget.
Champion/ I think the $50,000 rent, the extra $50,000, should be applied directly to the
bond as part of tax relief. That rent was always meant to go toward tax relief.
Bailey/ There isn't going to be any tax relief, Connie.
Champion/ Well, to pay down the bond.
Bailey/ Well, I mean, it won't...
Helling/ Pay down debt service, and you see some incremental.. .
Bailey/ ...but, I don't think that there would be relief.
Correia/ Not significant.
O'Malley/ It won't be significant, but it will be paying down (several talking)
Correia/ Well, anyway, I mean that would be just to say if we had a problem, so I mean
my, just to say, you know, what we recommended, less $50,000, I mean I think
we're proposing an additional $248,000 on to our General Fund levy, 8/10 levy,
from last year, current year to this year, to next year. So less $50,000 is not
cutting by any means...no (several talking).
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O'Malley/ Okay, you're talking about two different things then, aren't you? You're
talking about the 8.10 limit?
Correia/ No...yeah. I'm saying, we...this budget that we received has us, has the
General Levy going to the Library of $3,713,000, which is about 7% increase
from General Levy from last year. I'm saying, cut it by $50,000.
O'Malley/ Okay. I thought you were talking about the...the least payment.
Correia/ I was just saying, if we wanted to say, if we wanted to offset, if we thought it
was going to be a hardship for them, we could do that if we wanted to. That's all
I'm saying. So there's $130,000, and then we talked about parking fines.
Wright/ Excuse me, the $130,000 is the...
Correia/ What I'm proposing, finding money from the Library tax levy revenue, General
Fund Economic Development, and the deer control.
Helling/ So with the Library you're reducing their General Fund allocation by $50,000,
and that would be a new base?
Correia/ Yep, and that would be the new base.
Helling/ Is...you have to apply something for the future, some controlling factor, or it
could just go back up and...
Correia/ Well, I mean, I think we should look at, um, standard 3%...look at 3% increase
going forward.
Wilburn/ I still support the notion of, uh, um, just philosophically with the Library, that
any rent goes towards retiring debt, like...like Connie had said.
Champion/ That's what that referendum was about, and I know it's probably legal for us
to do something else, but that was understood by the voters that rent from that
would help pay off that debt.
Bailey/ Matt, did you have a question?
Hayek/ Well, I just...I'm looking at page 65, and Amy, your proposal would draw from
which line, the very top line?
Correia/ The top line. That's the only thing that really we give to them, from the 8/10
levy, the General Fund levy. Because the next one, current taxes, that's the
Library levy, so they're getting, they have their own levy, which is going up,
trending up.
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Bailey/ And I'm certainly interested in exploring that option, but I would like to hear
what the impact would be, because I think we're finally to the level of Library
service that our community desires. I mean, we haven't heard any calls for
increased hours. I think we're there. I...I don't...$50,000 doesn't seem like it
would have a huge impact, but I want to know. I mean, I want to know what the
impact of all of this would be, but (several talking)
Correia/ ...would still cover their personnel, just...that general levy would still cover
their personnel costs.
Champion/ If we're going to cut their budget from the general levy by $50,000, then
we're going to give them that $50,000 in rent money.
Correia/ No.
Bailey/ No.
Correia/ I was just giving that...and we're not cutting their budget by $50,000. We're
only cutting the increase that we were recommending, we received as a
recommendation. It's not going to cut. It's still going to be more than we're
currently giving them this year, so it's really not a cut so much as a reduction in
what was recommended.
Bailey/ Right, but I think it's important to hear impact. I mean, for any of these. I mean,
even deer control.
O'Donnell/ What...what was the, uh, the suggested increase by, increase in the, uh,
parking tickets?
Helling/ LTh, we issue about 180,000 a year.
Wright/ It was for a dollar surcharge.
Helling/ It's not a surcharge. We can't do that.
Wright/ For a dollar.
Helling/ Just raise the fine by one dollar.
O'Donnell/ So that's $180,000?
Helling/ It may reduce a little bit, yeah, you know, a safe estimate might be a little less
than that.
O'Donnell/ So...so if we go $180,000 there approximately, uh, $100,000 out of the
General Fund for the economic development, $80,000 deer control.
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Champion/ $30,000.
O'Donnell/ I'm talking eliminating it.
Correia/ I don't think...
Champion/ ...there's not support for that.
O'Donnell/ Well, but I don't know if there is or not. (several talking)
Bailey/ Is there support for eliminating completely deer control?
Hayek/ We haven't even talked about this program, and what the impact of completely
gutting it, pardon the pun, would mean for the...I just can't talk about gutting or
cutting the deer control funding entirely, without hearing somebody involved in
that program.
O'Donnell/ Other communities will...will let people bow hunt and, uh, you know...
Correia/ But, Mike, there's four of us on here that will not allow, that would not support
bow hunting, so I don't think it's worth our.. .
O'Donnell/ Are there four people who want to continue to pay that much money yearly,
to control something that we could...(several talking at once)
Wright/ I will definitely pay for sharpshooters. Bow hunters within the city limits scare
the hell out of me.
O'Donnell/ So I'm totally lost on this one. Then I have to settle for $30,000 reduction.
Bailey/ Which is more than, which is more than in past years so...
Wilburn/ Just for future reference...
O'Donnell/ It's more than I expected.
Wilburn/ Just for future reference, you might want to take a look at those past, uh,
reports, uh, the...the urban deer plan, and there's conversation in there...I
remember, um, the sharpshooter discussing, um, you know, if you're going to
invest, if you're going to spend your money that way, um, you want it to have the
desired impact and if you get below a certain threshold, uh, you're not killing
enough deer and you're still having the problems with, uh, you know, too many
deer, accidents, eating...that type...so there's a certain threshold that you've got
to spend to keep it at a certain number of deer per acre, and if you get below that,
you're not...
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Hayek/ And I assume as we slowly expand the circumference of our city boundary, we're
moving into more and more habitat, so I mean, I just don't know what...(several
talking)
Bailey/ Well, then...go ahead.
Wright/ I was just, if we go back to the parking ticket issue for a second. Right now our
overdue fines, or overdue meters are five bucks, correct? That's a third cheaper,
or two-thirds cheaper than the University. The University's are $15, Cedar
Rapids is $10. We ought to look at two or three bucks anyway.
Champion/ Oh, I know! A dollar.
Correia/ Two dollars.
O'Donnell/ You think this community's not going to like deer hunting.
Wright/ Nobody likes parking tickets, Mike. We all get `em!
O'Donnell/ No, in a sense you're right...you're breaking the law and, um, the option is
don't overpark.
Champion/ It's not...you're not really a dangerous citizen because you have an overdue
parking meter.
O'Donnell/ Unless they put a...
Wright/ Just think, you know, that quarter is really cheap insurance.
Champion/ Well, I know that, but I think $180,OOO...we may have to raise parking
another dollar to cover the parking ramp repairs. So, I mean, this dollar.. .
Helling/ It would be your fees.
Champion/ Yes. The dollar is going to be...
Correial That's different than a ticket.
Wright/ Yeah.
Champion/ It's going to be...I think to raise it, I mean, you can talk about it in two years
about raising it more, but the customers downtown have just gotten over the $5.00
ticket, so let's not jump it to $7.00. Remember it was $3.00. That was a $2.00
jump. And so $1.00 jump is enough. And I do think, it's going to produce a lot
of money. That's a lot of money.
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Correia/ Well, I do think, I think a dollar this year, in two years we're going to really
need additional after (several talking)
Bailey/ I think we should hold off on the parking, um, raising the parking tickets, because
we're going to have evaluations of where we are in the budget. This might need
to be, you know, a tool that we have in our back pocket. I'm...I continue to look
at our trends for General Fund and the unreserved fund balance, um, at the end of
the year, and believe that in fiscal year 09 we could start off some of this
employing what Ross said, a comfort level of decreasing our balance a little bit by
a percentage, and I still think we'll be higher than our goal, because we have been
higher than our goal in past years, and I believe, I just believe in our capability to
continue that trend, and then if we aren't higher than our goal, or if we are moving
in an uncomfortable direction, then let's talk about something like parking fines.
It seems so...I mean, I'm not all that concerned about the message, but it seems
bad messaging at this point. When I think.. .
Correia/ Well, it seems like we do have, especially because we have a healthy cash fund
balance...
Bailey/ And consistently have had it.
Correia/ Right, and that consistently we have more going in at the end of a year than we
had planned for.
Bailey/ Right.
Correia/ That we could see what happens in one year, and have...and do some of these
things that we've talked about to kind of get ourselves geared up and get more
dollars earmarked towards our priorities, the public safety priorities, and then at,
and be watching it, like you said monitoring it (mumbling) than we have in the
past, and then have these other tools when we look at the fiscal year 10 budgeting.
Wilburn/ I still, and this is, um, a slightly different direction than we've been talking
about, but I still look at the parking fines, um, and when I've talked to people and
they've complained about parking tickets, is that, um, which is interesting because
some people, uh, look at that as their parking ramp fee, because it's so, it's been
so low, but, uh, if we get complaints about, `There's not enough parking,' for
people and students or whoever or employees are feeding the meters and hogging
up...that it's to discourage people from, um, you know, parking and using the
streets for long-term parking, like the ramps should be, so it's, uh, so I think that,
if...if the point came where I were interested in raising the parking fine, it
wouldn't be to look at it to generate revenue. The purpose would be that we're
getting more complaints about people parking and staying all day, and just
accepting the ticket as like a, since it is pretty low here.
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Bailey/ Sort of doing the cost benefit analysis, which I know lots of students do. Right.
Oh yeah, yeah. But, are we, I mean, I know people are interested in pursuing the
parking fines, but are we willing to hold off on that approach, I mean, to see
where we're trending?
Correia/ Yeah, I think if we do some of these other things to, um, free up dollars, as well.
Bailey/ Well, can we talk a little about, um, the...the fund balance, the end reserve, the
balance and the percentages are, range from 15 to 30, 30 being I think it's worded,
you know, these policies are also part of this document that we approve. So,
um...
Wilburn/ Well, before we...excuse me.
Bailey/ Go ahead.
Wilburn/ Before we talk about, uh, the range of comfort that we might have with
lowering that down, and maybe this is a little unfair, uh, but Kevin, do you have
any sense on how we're doing so far towards paying for, in what we've discussed
so far, how are we...I guess I'm looking for a range of how much, um, based on
what my comfort level would be with the amount of carryover, um, do I need to
go as far as saying I'm comfortable with, or you know, if I'm saying that 2% is
what, would 1 % take care of getting the officers. I know that you're not a human
calculator, but you're the closest thing we got, so...
O'Malley/ Could you...
Bailey/ How many percentage points would we have to reduce that optimal level, is that
what you're saying, to get us to where we...
Wilburn/ ...given the reprioritization that we've talked about already, uh, and possibly
increasing the emergency levy, I mean, how much are we...?
O'Malley/ I believe...
Wilburn/ Or maybe, go ahead I was going to say.. .
O'Malley/ ...1% was somewhere around $500,000.
Wilburn/ That was going to be my question is what percent...
Bailey/ The 1.5%, I mean...
O'Malley/ $480,000 in 2009 would be 1%.
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Champion/ And that's fine. I don't have any problems using that, but my concern with
this whole thing is that...we can always move forward and forward and forward
and get more and more. We cannot depend on the emergency levy, I mean, on
reducing our cash flow just to pay for that...after a couple years we won't have
any cash flow or cash, so I'm willing to do it somewhat like Ross is. I think we
have to find other revenue, and I think we should go back to talking about this
parking fine increase as a way to sustain that.emergency fund, or to sustain the
fire station, um, because it's...it's a, I mean a $6.00 parking ticket is still cheap.
Bailey/ Well, and we do have that option. I mean, I think part of the way we're
approaching this is we're going to start off down this road, but we're going to
check in a lot more with the budget and where we're tracking with fund balance
and reserves and what's happening in the environment, than we ever have before.
So if in September we find that to stay on this track we need to raise parking
fines, that's an option. It's just that we don't necessarily have to do it now, if we
can be comfortable reducing, um, you know, the optimal level of our reserve
balance, the operating cash balances, down to 29 or 28%, which is what Ross was
saying. It's going down 2%...
Correia/ Do we have to have...I mean, if our range is 15 to 30, do we have to have an
optimal level? Our optimal level is somewhere between 15 and 30? I mean, why
do we have an optimal...
Bailey/ A ceiling and a floor.
Correia/ Yeah, we have a ceiling and a floor. If it's somewhere between there, why do
we need to...
Helling/ Well, I think the floor is probably represents kind of a worst-case scenario, uh, at
least that's what was seen in the past. The optimal was where you wanted to try
to be, um, and if you're comfortable with lowering that optimal level a little bit, I
think as we indicated before, um, it may not, there's no magic number in terms of
the percent. It's how you're spending it. And if you look at the projections,
based on adding these positions, it goes down and keeps going down, and so what
I'm saying whether you put these positions in or not, in your budget for the next
three years, we need to be looking at ways to increase the revenue in order to be
able to sustain those. Otherwise, you know, and maybe it's because we find out
that we're consistently getting more, you know, more revenue than we project.
Bailey/ Well, one of the things this doesn't show that I had asked for is what were the
projections in the years that we finished, you know, like 35, 37, 39, 41, 41. I
mean, that would be very telling what...what were we projecting in the budget?
mean, I'm assuming that we weren't projecting 39%, if, um, yeah, we weren't
because the policy was probably optima130 then because of the...I mean, that's
what it's been since I've been on Council. Is that accurate?
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O'Malley/ What we do every year, well, number one, we budget revenues and expenses.
Bailey/ Right.
O'Malley/ Weren't really budgeting fund balance.
Bailey/ Right.
O'Malley/ So we were trying to present a balanced budget every year, we had so much
revenues and so much expenditures, and hopefully there'd be some money left
over because we would need a higher fund balance because the next year's
expenditures would have been higher, keep it 30%. I think you have to have a
moving target. Now, we've had good years and bad years, depending upon, um,
revenue coming in. The last three years, interest income has been the story, more
or less, because property taxes are 68, 70% of budget. Usually whatever we
budget we get.
Bailey/ Right, that's a pretty accurate, I mean, we can pretty much aim there accurately,
right.
O'Malley/ From...from, once we set it, it happens. But we don't know what the interest
income's going to do. It's based on whatever our cash balances are...looks like,
according to the feds, it's going to go down. It's been going down the last six
months. So, I know that that area will be going down. We had some property
sales in the Peninsula, a couple years ago. We haven't seen any property sales
since. There's been other forms of revenue come in that are one-time shots we
haven't seen yet, and that's...we didn't budget for that, but it happens.
Champion/ And then, tell me one more thing about that. Is on-spent money in that
reserve fund too? Like if we budgeted money to be spent last April but it's not
paid for until this July.
O'Malley/ That's right, there's timing differences.
Champion/ There also could be some money in there that's really spent.
O'Malley/ It's appropriated, correct. That happened one year.
Bailey/ Because we're on a cash basis. If you go accrual, yeah, you would see it out of
there, right. Right.
Champion/ So all of our on-year's money is in that account. Right, so it could be, a lot of
it could be pre-spent or whatever that term is you use, but...
O'Malley/ Appropriated.
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Champion/ Okay, thank you.
Helling/ Uh, you get some idea with your General Fund balance at the end of the year,
but until we do the carryovers, um, because that...that, I don't know if I'm saying
it right, but the carryovers actually, the money goes into the next year's budget,
but the carryovers are spent out of that budget too.
Wilburn/ So what I was getting at, in my earlier statement, about kind of that three-prong
direction to go, uh, given what Dale had just reminded us about, uh, you know, in
those years, us getting no further below that 30%, what I was suggesting, if you
know, we drop that a couple percent down to 28%, combined with the
reallocation, the change that we discussed earlier, and using that emergency levy
to help keep that up around 28% is what I was getting at. So you're, again,
sending the message we're, uh, slight property tax increase through the
emergency levy, uh, reducing some expenditures, and uh, and just reallocating
how we're spending it is what I was getting at.
Bailey/ Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about cost containment too, because that came up.
Um, and I know that, you know, we've looked at this budget and Dale's indicated
that there's not a lot of fat there, but I mean, what do we believe is possible. I
mean, I've heard people even suggest sort of goofy ideas of having contests
between departments to hit a goal of reducing, um, costs in their department by,
you know, .5% or something, and you know, doing some...some sort of
incentives. You know, small incentives, gift certificates or those kinds of things,
engaging, um, the employees and some of the creative thinking about cost
containment. What, I mean, what is possible cost containment wise?
Wilburn/ And before you answer that, the...because I'll forget this if I don't say it, the
other piece to that in terms of, you know, us, more conversations about the budget
throughout the year and, uh, and year to year is if we, you know, um, it'll be a
moving target with, you know, maybe we don't need to use the emergency levy,
increase it so much one year as it turns out in the next budget, uh, because some
other areas were better, or we generated more, if we went to parking, you know,
that type of thing.
Bailey/ So, I mean, you know, is a quarter of a percentage point, you know, in all
departments, cost containment in the services line? I mean, maybe that's what it
would average out, across the entire organization. I mean, what have we thought
is possible? Expenses are controlled every year, quite well it looks like. What
could we actually aim for?
O'Malley/ I'm not sure how to answer that.
Helling/ You know, we look at everything, and I hate to use the word, but a little more
macro level in terms of, for instance, we categorize our, um, whether it's our
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supplies or services, you know, we look at that from year to year because they do
fluctuate by department.
Bailey/ Right.
Helling/ Um, and what you're talking about is finding where we can cut permanently.
Um, and so, the only way that I can see that you can go about that is go into each
department, first of all, I think you have to identify are there departments...for
instance, Police and Fire Department -we're trying to find money to fund
officers. Do we ask them to make cuts? Um, Police Department has, you know, a
$10 million budget. Um, so a percent or something there's a lot of money. Um,
then...then you identify where we can look for that money and where we can't,
and then percentages go up a little bit. But just looking within the organization,
you know, we can do that, and all I'm saying to you is on my best prediction,
based on going through the budget, is...it will be an extensive exercise. I doubt
that it will yield a lot of money. Is there money in there that we don't have to
spend, are we...can we cut here and there a little bit? Yeah, I think we can, but if
you cut very much, I think it realistically does start affecting the service level,
maybe in only small ways, uh, but whether those are acceptable to you, depends
on what the service is and...
Hayek/ What if we...what if we say, `All right, we're trying to increase the staffing in
two departments,' Police and Fire, and so we take that off the table and that
reduces the General Fund to, I mean, their portion of the budget is some
significant percent, so obviously your denominator is smaller, but and then we say
we've got to get X-hundred thousand dollars, um, to fund these new positions,
you know, we'll combine some shifting of, uh, funds like we've talked about
tonight, maybe combine a little bit of revenue increase, like Ross you've talked
about and others have talked about, and then make up the balance with cost
containment. We have a number, and then we decide how we're going to extract
that number from an admittedly reduced pie, because we're taking fire and police
off the table.
Bailey/ Well, I'm not sure that we necessarily need to take those departments off the
table, if there are cost saving measures they can find in...in services or supplies. I
mean, you know, a $10 million department probably uses a heck of a lot of
something, I mean, you know, are there opportunities? I don't know. But I mean,
I think department heads would have some idea of...of where they can contain
those costs, and I'm not talking about a 1% or a 5%. I'm talking about, you
know, percentages of percent...a point, or half of a percent. I mean, other people
brought up cost containment. What were the other thoughts about this, or how to
pursue it? I mean, I want our staff to have the tools they need to do their jobs to
provide the services that our citizens expect, without question, and I think that
that's probably what all of us want, but are there opportunities for them, um, to
cut back a little bit? Within reason.
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O'Donnell/ Without compromising services.
Hayek/ Or compromising service. I mean, if we, you know.. .
Bailey/ Which services are we willing to compromise?
Hayek/ Yeah. (several talking at once)
Correia/ ...this cut, this amount of cut would compromise services, we couldn't do this,
on a cut we couldn't do this...I mean, it's hard to know.
Bailey/ Well, is that something we could look at or the next year before we enter into the
next budget cycle of getting a sense of...of the level of cost containment we might
want to see, and then what direction we can provide departments and having an
understanding of the impact? And seeing if we're willing to move forward on
that or not. Or if we have parking tickets that are $50.00. As a trade-off, I
mean.. .
Wilburn/ Well, the difficulty with that is you can project all you want.
Bailey/ Right.
Wilburn/ But if there's a service that's requested by the public and that's an area that you
have decided you're going to, um, cut less, provide less, I men, you in effect are
at some point, you're going to have to say, `We are not doing further than X-level
of service, and public we're sorry because we added police and fire and we did all
these other things.' You're going to have to, you know, at some point, regardless
whether you plan it or not, um, you are making a definite statement about, it
comes down to us saying, `We're willing to discontinue this particular service, or
this amount of service,' because like I said, you can plan for it and budget all you
want, but if, uh, if people want their trash picked up at a certain rate, if they want
curbside leaf pickup and um, you know, if we cut the amount of, instead of three
leaf pickups, we only do two leaf pickups per neighborhood, and it's a year where
the leaves stay on the trees longer again, then at some point you have to say no, so
L ..I don't know.. .
Bailey/ Right, but that's when we have our community discussion, right?
Wilburn/ Well, but that doesn't work for budget planning purposes though.
Bailey/ But, I mean, a budget reflects the priorities of a community, and one of the things
we're hearing and one of the reasons we're motivated to act is we've heard the
priorities of the community, our police and fire. What we haven't heard is the flip
side, what are you willing to do to get that, but I think once we begin to put some
things out there, we're going to get some response of, `I don't want my taxes to
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go up,' or `I don't want services in this area to decrease,' to provide this, and then
we have a discussion about what are the community's priorities.
Wilburn/ I just believe over the last, you know, since that 04,O...whatever year that was
that we had the big cut from the State, I think the departments have done a good
job of looking out for those savings, and I just don't think they're there to a
significant level, um, that's my opinion.
Correia/ Well, and I think that...that that's, in order for me to have a better handle on
making those big decisions, if we do need to cut somewhere down the road as
we're looking at this three years, I want to have more information about what's
the amount of level of service each department is providing and at what cost, so
that then when we might, if we do get into a situation where we have to say,
`Well, we decided to prioritize this,' I would feel in a better, have a better
knowledge base of knowing across departments what is the current level of
service. What does a what percent cut mean to the level of service provided, so
that it can be presented and explained, um, to residents?
Champion/ The other thing is too, um, I'm not so sure I want the public to decide what
the priority is, because if, are they going to choose property tax over police and
fire, um, I mean, I think police and fire are our priority. What are they willing to
give up to maintain those, that's one question. Um, we've already decided that
police and fire are going to be our priority, so I don't have any problems just
saying that we're going to, you know, don't have to give something up. Just
refresh my memory. What departments come out of the 8.10 levy? I mean, trash
does not.
Helling/ Right.
Champion/ Water does not, Landfill doesn't, um, not Planning and Zoning, but uh, um...
Helling/ Housing Inspection Services?
Champion/ Yeah, that doesn't come out of it either.
Helling/ Some of it does. (several talking)
Correia/ I'm wondering if we can shift some of that out and have more of their revenue
covering more of their budget.
Bailey/ Housing Inspection, so using permitting costs to cover more of their budget. I
mean, that would be a direct cost, right, Eleanor, and wouldn't be problematic in
sort of the approach.
Helling/ Housing Inspection does not pay for...Building Inspection pretty much...
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Bailey/ Okay, Building.
Champion/ Building Inspection does!
Helling/ Housing Inspection we'd have to raise our fees. In fact, I've got something on
my desk that has fee increases, but they're basically pretty much cost of living
type.
Dilkes/ But with building inspection, they can position...it has been my understanding
that we over years anyway, generate the amount of fees that we need to pay for
that department.
Champion/ Okay, what else comes out of the 8.10, the police, the fire, uh, Planning and
Zoning?
Wilburn/ Isn't page 41, isn't that all General Fund...FTE's, page 41. Because on 42 it
shows where the enterprise funds pay for...yeah.
Bailey/ And so, when it comes to our Fire Department, they have inspection
responsibilities as well.
Helling/ Yes.
Bailey/ And yet we don't have fees for inspections...do we have fees for inspections
covering any part of their budget? Okay, so where do I see that. Fire services?
Okay.
O'Malley/ They actually are a little behind.
Bailey/ Okay. They're behind on their fees?
O'Malley/ Yeah, the fire inspector position that was put in the budget two years ago was
supposed to be like 70% funded by fees, and got the program started late and first
year they wanted to give everybody a pass, so I think they're about 20, 10-15% of
their (mumbling) they're planning on ramping that up in 09.
Bailey/ Okay. Because that would be sort of a policy, I mean, that would be a direction
that I would like to see Fire, I mean, move. I mean, it's not a lot of money but it
just seems to make sense because that's what we expect...
O'Malley/ Be honoring their past promise...
Bailey/ ...that's what we expected with that particular position, exactly.
Dilkes/ Well, there are fees, there are fire inspection fees that can't be recovered. Those
are in connection with liquor license inspections.
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Bailey/ Right. That's why that line is virtually nothing. Right? Okay. So, we were
looking at page 41, right?
Helling/ You'll see, for instance, on page 41, engineering services, some of the...that's
not all of the positions. Some of the (mumbling)
Bailey/ Right.
Helling/ ...projects our inspectors, that sort of thing, so this is just a portion of those
functions that's funded out of the General Fund.
Hayek/ Dale, is, um, kind of flipping back two pages to the approved/recommended list.
The, on 39, the mass transit operators are largely paid for with other sources,
right?
Helling/ Yes.
Correia! 100% paid for.
Hayek/ 100%? Okay.
Champion/ Why is theirs...
Bailey/ JARC and Transit reserves, right, is what I have noted.
Hayek/ Okay, what about the housing inspector assistant? Proposed changes there?
Helling/ That's actually, go ahead.
O'Malley/ ...paid for, he's planning on revenue increase, uh, permanent increase to Iowa
One to help pay for that position.
Hayek/ Okay, so...
Helling/ That's actually a, uh, the tradeoff puts more of that position in Building
Inspection, which does pay for itself.
Hayek/ Okay, but...but, so as to that chart, really the positions we're talking about, uh,
that come out of General Fund are the CSO's, police officers, and firefighters?
Helling/ Right.
Hayek/ Well, I add that up and that's about $400,000. So that's the nut we have, you to
know, to define for at least 09.
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Bailey/ And that's a decrease of...of, isn't that what you said, if we went down from 30%
to 29% in our reserves, that's about $480,000, so...and if we are sort of
anticipating that we will track the way we've tracked in past years, we will
probably shoot for 29 and hit 30 or 32. I'm so optimistic. I'm an optimist.
Hayek/ I'm not optimistic about the next couple of years economically. (several
responding)
Helling/ ...if it happens, that's one of those decision points you look and see if that
happens, uh, but remember, underlining all of this is we've got to build that fund
up by another million dollars by FY12 to cover that, and payday.
Hayek/ When will we, uh, get the hard numbers on the 09 assessment, uh, change, or.. .
O'Malley/ We got those the first week in January, so these tax dollars are going to be
slightly lower. I think 30 or $40,000 lower in the General Fund.
Hayek/ Okay, but the last one we got in January of 07, is that right? And the new one we
get in January...
O'Malley/ We get a, what are we talking about?
Hayek/ Well, I'm just...
O'Malley/ Oh, revaluations -every other year.
Hayek/ Right. We're in an off year, right? So next year, next year's the new one.
O'Malley/ It's 07, 09 and 11.
Bailey/ Calendar year.
O'Malley/ Yes, no...fiscal years, that they come in. If you see the spikes you might
notice the revenue came up in 07. We had like a 16% increase in...
Hayek/ Do you still have that...
O'Malley/ Yeah, the one with the graph and it had the table...that Dale...
Helling/ It was in the packet that we gave you.
O'Malley/ It's page 17. (several talking) Remember this...you look at 07, it spikes up.
Hayek/ Which page are you on?
O'Malley/ C-17, on the, it's not in the book, it's in the handout that you got.
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Bailey/ But it's also in the book somewhere, right?
O'Malley/ Well, not as clearly defined as that.
Bailey/ Okay.
O'Malley/ C-16 and C-17 show it.
Helling/ 16 is residential and 17 is commercial. (several talking)
O'Malley/ See that spike? Spike years are odd years. Three, five, seven, nine, those are
revaluation years.
Helling/ Well, the valuation's gone, it went up, it's just that our projections were a little,
little high and so Kevin, what he's talking about he got the actual figures and
those projections are going to come down.
Hayek/ Okay, so the revaluation is the actual number, is that right?
Helling/ Yes.
O'Malley/Yes, all those are actual.
Hayek/ And what I'm saying is, I'm...you know the people I talk to are not convinced
that the next (several talking) in fact they will be static and.. .
O'Malley/ ...and I agree with...with Regenia's position. We should monitor this every
month. I've noticed the State is doing that also. Because I have a hunch our
permits aren't going to be there and some of these numbers are going to drop.
Bailey/ Well, and besides, I mean, dealing with a challenging economy, I mean, we also
have to consider, the optimist that I am, activities that we can do to promote
growth and you know continue, to continue to have the opportunity to live on our
growth. I mean, if that's what we're living on, we gotta maintain it somehow, and
so I think we have to, have to be cognizant of that and, you know, cutting
economic development dollars might not be the place to cut necessarily. I'm not
sure, but I mean, I think that's something we have to continue to talk about, so
we're being proactive as well as responsive. So, if we, moving forward, looked
at...looked at that optimal reserve amount, and we're comfortable as a group, and
we all have varying degrees of comfort levels with financial risk. Mine's
probably the most comfortable with risk, but um, if we were going to reduce that,
and not call it an optimal level but reduce our ceiling to, uh, 27, 28, or whatever
we decided, and moved forward with a budget that reflected that, that potentially
would give us some opportunity of about $480,000 and monitor this in a very
focused way, monthly.
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Correia/ Not do anything...
Bailey/ And do the other things that we're comfortable putting on the table. I don't want
to negate that whole conversation. That was a hard conversation to put things on
the table....go ahead.
Correia/ I mean, I think we need to start programming in dollars being shifted into new
priorities.
Bailey/ Right. And so seeing what that would look like, and take a look at that, and then
checking in to see if that's the way we want to move forward with this budget,
with the understanding that we're going to talk about budget a lot more this year.
I mean, are people comfortable in moving that direction with this? I know you're
not quite comfortable yet, Kevin.
O'Malley/ I'm always comfortable.
Wilburn/ As long, again, with the statement made earlier about a combination of shifting
and generating revenue, with that emergency, I mean, you.. .
Bailey/ So let's look at that levy page.
Wilburn/ ...because then you're...you're showing that you are, well, I mean the message
to the public is that, uh, um, we are, we are monitoring how we are spending and
allocating the dollars and we're trying to be responsible with that, but if you want
that level of services, it's got to be paid for, and that's going to be with that
emergency levy to help...
Hayek/ So you're talking about an increase in both the City levy and concurrently the
County levy.
Bailey/ So we're looking at paying 14 (several talking at once) let's look at page 14 in the
budget book. There's...the emergency levy which we are allowed to levy if we
are at our 8/10 max, and in past years, in the past couple of years, um, we held our
levies flat for some tax relief. It went primarily unnoticed because everybody else
raised theirs, but I'm not bitter or anything...okay, Connie's bitter for all of us!
So this proposed budget for fiscal year 9 has us putting back that emergency levy,
which we are allowed because we're at our max for our General levy, and that's
what you're saying, Ross, keep it at that level? Or are you suggesting raising it?
Wilburn/ The emergency?
Bailey/ Yeah.
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Wilburn/ I'm suggesting as we get further out raising it to keep us at that 28%, in addition
to continuing to look at some of the other changes that we make.
Wright/ So keeping it at the ten-cents that's in the budget now, correct?
Bailey/ And indicating our willingness to even raise it higher, if need be. Are other
people comfortable with that? Connie, you had some concerns about.. .
Wilburn/ I'd still need to see the hard numbers once...
Champion/ I do too, but I mean, L..(several talking) I mean, I'm just thinking about three
years from now or four years from now, I don't think things are going to get any
better. I think they're going to get worse. I'm sorry, Regenia, I'm not the
optimist economically that you are.
Bailey/ Well, you have to be an optimist or you cause recessions, that's how I feel.
Champion/ Well, I'm not going to cause the recession, but I...I do think there are some
things showing up even locally. I'm not talking about recession. I'm talking
about...yeah, housing decreases, um, the town's not...commercial rollback
potential, the town's not, the town can't continue to grow at the rate it did five
years ago. It's not growing at the rate it did five years ago. Um, that I just think
we need to be really prepared for that, and I like to be prepared for it, rather than
have to deal with it on a gut situation. And we have this way to raise the money,
if we see we don't need it in three years, we can cut back on it again, but I think
it's good to just start right now with some of these revenue producing things, to
keep us out of trouble and I just...I'm not, I believe in preventative medicine.
Um, I just like to keep things rolling...I don't like to deal with disasters. It's
painful.
Bailey/ Especially financial.
Correia/ If we had the emergency levy at .15, that would be an extra $120,000 this year.
Champion/ Yeah.
Correia/ So, I mean...
Champion/ Just enough to...
Wilburn/ I...I would support that.
Champion/ I just like to be a little more proactive. It's good to be optimistic, you can
always back off.
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Bailey/ Well, and if we are committed to doing this monitoring that Kevin's encouraging
us to do, and I think we have to. It would be irresponsible not to, I think you're
right. We can back off and we'll have a pretty good indicator as we move into the
next budget cycle. Um, what we need to do...go ahead.
Correia/ Like you said, we have this, you know, raise the parking fines a dollar in our
back pocket, which is another $180,000, which we essentially could do mid-year,
correct, if we.. .
O'Malley/ You can do it at any time.
Correia/ ...at any time (several talking at once)
O'Malley/ Only get one shot at raising taxes.
Bailey/ So, I mean, I know we all need to see hard numbers, but are we comfortable in
moving, I mean, moving in this direction?
Hayek/ I'm not comfortable considering levy increases or other revenue increases, unless
it's tied to some sort of effort at cost containment, and I recognize that cost
containment may at least in January 2008 be exceedingly difficult for the 09
budget because we've got a month or two to do it, um, and maybe it's something
that requires a longer view and, you know, several scenarios and target numbers
and all that kind of thing, um, but, uh, as, you know, going past 09, that's my
feeling on it. And I think, you know, that for 09 what we have to hit is $400,000
to fund these new positions, for the next fiscal year.
Bailey/ But I have an expectation if we are struggling to find this that we will move
forward in some kind of cost containment. I mean, you know, we'll put this
budget together with the expectation, the continued expectation, that you say that
we have (mumbling) if we don't need it, but I think then we need to proactively
look at ways to keep down costs, or challenge ourselves to reduce costs by, you
know, a certain percentage or something.
Helling/ The increases you make in your revenue will show up in various ways. Some of
them, um, the emergency levy for instance will show up in the, in your fund
balance. Um, so I think you'll have to keep in mind that that's artificially high
because you increased those things this year, because next year you're going to
need twice as much, because we're going to add five more positions, or well, at
least three anyway, and then the third year going out. So probably the thing that
we need to do is, you tell us what you want to factor in, and we can revise this,
update it, and give, show you where the peaks and valleys are, because if you'll
look at this for FY09, it still remains pretty level. It's, as you get into that second
tier of new hires and the third tier that it starts to...starts to go down, and
that's...that's an indicator of how well the projections would, uh, would indicate
that we can sustain that. So, whatever we do, this still I think is very important.
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We...we need to keep updating this and keep showing you, uh, what that is, and
then you can make your own decisions about when you need to add more revenue
and how much.
Correia/ So, with this projection, with...for 09, with the new positions that you've put in
the budget, we still end at a 30% fund balance. So...so, projected, with these
positions in there, with everything in here, so basically it looks like it's not until
2010 that we might need to add that additional nickel to the emergency levy,
because I would rather, if we're, I'd rather not raise the emergency levy to put
more money in our savings account if we have room in our savings account to
use, and just wait `til the next year, so I mean it looks like based on what you've
given us, we will be able to add the new positions as recommend, or as presented
in this budget, and at the levy rate, and then, but going into that 2010, 2011 where
you have the levy at .1 where it's dipping maybe a little bit lower than you might
feel comfortable with, we still need to decide what our optimal level is that we
feel comfortable with, but then there would be that opportunity after going
through a year of cost containment, that sort of a thing, being intentional, we
would have those two things in our back pocket, the, well, additional 15-cents or
17-cents, really in the emergency levy, but we're talking about just adding another
nickel, plus an increase in the parking fine to go into 2010, so based on what
you've projected, which has been conservative and like you've said, Regenia, and
I've seen too and believe generally we are very conservative in that so, I feel
comfortable with...
Bailey/ Ten-cent...
Correia/ Ten-cent this year, knowing that, you know, based on the numbers we've gotten,
that we should be okay this year, not...not really be too far in to our unreserved to
expenditures cash balance, but then knowing that when we get to 2010, after we
spent a year really looking at the budget, month by month, to be able to make that
decision for the next year, like I said, I mean, if we don't think we need it, and
you said, you know, you just said that money will end up in our cash balance and
it'll be unusually high that sort of triggered that conversation we've had about not
wanting to levy money that's going to go into our savings account essentially, that
we can wait `til the next year to do, if we have enough in our savings account.
Bailey/ I agree with you. I...I would like to, I mean, we are raising, um, the emergency
levy, and I would like to proceed cautiously, understanding that we can increase it
in ten, and also be willing to do that. I mean.. .
Helling/ The other side of that, of course, if you want to try to balance to some extent the
increase in fees and tax askings, um, but if you, basically for the purpose of right
now, if...if we know what assumptions are built in, and that's all, they don't have
to be hard decisions at this time, we can...we can go back and create this new
picture for you and...
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Bailey/ And those are the assumptions...I want to go back to what Matt would like with
when it comes to, I mean, we are raising taxes and you said you're not
comfortable doing that without some cost containment measures. How would
you, what would that look like moving forward? I mean, perhaps we can't do it in
the next couple months, but, you know, what would cost containment measures
look like that would satisfy that?
Hayek/ Yeah, well, that's a good question. I...the way I see it, or the way I would like to
approach it is to, um, is to have Dale and that department present to us several
scenarios under which we could, uh, freeze hiring or even make cuts, if we had to.
Um, and we would then choose from them, because I don't think it's from within
my skill set to go into a large budget and identify things that can be picked out,
um, the least impact to services city-wide, um, but I...I guess I view that as an
upper level staff function, but I also think that staff can't just be making the
decision, okay, here's what we're going to do, um, because staff needs direction
from us about the priorities of the City, of the community, so it seems to me that
like a list of scenarios that we choose from, and thereby impose or broadcast our
priorities, would be one way to do it.
Bailey/ So, going into this budget, you want to see potentially some hiring freeze
scenarios, or some staff cuts scenarios?
Hayek/ I don't know about this budget, and that's why I raise this timing thing.
Bailey/ Okay. Okay.
Hayek/ I get the feeling that'd be pretty tough to do in the compressed time period we've
got, and so I like the idea of buying some time and focusing on 09 and the fact
that we need $400,000 to get through the next year, and...and living to fight
another day, or whatever the term is, on cost containment, and the more in-depth
analysis that would be required for that.
Helling/ I think you have...you have time to do that, because you don't have to identify
that for the FY09 budget, in terms of raising that cash. The problem I have with
that is that I do believe that there are an infinite number of ways that we could
approach that, and we need some policy direction, in order to do that. Um, I
would not want to come up with maybe five or ten scenarios, and then find those
are totally unacceptable - go do five or ten more, you know, that kind of thing.
Um, and it really is a policy decision when we start talking about where are we
going to reduce services or potentially reduce services.
Bailey/ Some of you...I just, some of you have had experience with this because you
were on the Council when you had to do some cuts, um, when the Legislature
changed some things, and how...how did you proceed in that...that situation.
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Wilburn/ It was by attrition, there was a projection on attrition, in terms of staff, so in that
case, it wasn't a matter of staff saying, essentially what you're saying is what's
the lowest priority staff position, or...or what am I going to presume that
Council's going to say is the lowest priority, or services we're willing to do
without. If it's by attrition, then you're just looking at retirement, who's coming
up on retirement, so that's...
Champion/ It was specific attrition, it was specific. We got rid of three firemen that we'd
already hired for (several talking) and the three policemen that were hired by a
grant.
Wilburn/ And that was the, yeah, but again, that as a natural...
Champion/ ...fire station, so we let those positions go by attrition.
Helling/ I think we essentially identified where the cuts were going to be, but we had a,
we planned over two years to manage our way through that so that we were able
to do it (mumbling) attrition.
O'Malley/ Other departments lost people too.
Helling/ Oh, yeah, yeah, um, Parks and Rec lost one or two.
O'Malley/ I lost one and a half.
Champion/ It was a lot of money. It was like a (several talking)
Bailey/ Okay, Amy, you had a comment. I'm sorry.
Correia/ Oh, I don't know. I'm sorry. Oh, I guess...what, as you're saying you want...I
guess I want to know what more direction we can give from the Council on how
to assist in coming up with what those scenarios might be?
Champion/ Well, you might want to say, uh, some of us may feel the Library, you can't
touch that. Somebody might feel like another department can't be touched, so
you have to get a consensus of what's not going to be acceptable.
Bailey/ Yeah, we continue to want to do snowplowing for example, or do we?
Champion/ Yeah, or do we want to (mumbling)
Bailey/ Right, which was on our discussion.
Champion/ So those are things, the direction has to be there. There are certain things that
we're probably not going to get a consensus to touch. That's why raising
revenue's easier than taking it away. (laughter)
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Bailey/ Well, and I go back to the letter that we saw about, I mean, I don't want to send a
message...I'm all willing to do cost containment and to look at things, but I don't
want to send a message that we don't value all the services that our staff offered.
I mean, we wouldn't...we wouldn't be offering these services if we didn't, and
our citizens, didn't deem these valuable, so I have a concern about how we would
approach that conversation, and I think that's something for all of us to think
about how that's, um, best handled, because I think everybody realizes that we
want to move forward in this direction of hiring, um, and that we want to contain
expenses, but what does that look like. I'm willing to make the tough decisions...
Champion/ Maybe we should wrap this up. We should just go on with what you talked
about earlier, that we'll just keep it as it is and we'll just keep looking at it and by
next year we're probably going to have to make some major decisions.
Bailey/ Well, I think during the course of the next year, I think we need to decide of how
we could best make those, um, you know, cost containment...what information
that we would need, especially with two new people, um, to make some of those
policy direction decisions. I mean, do we need some more information about, um,
service impacts or you know best case scenarios, and...and framing the question
so we have the information, so as we check in and we see that we might need to
go in this direction, or as some of you believe, will need to go in this direction, we
have the information. We don't have to scramble, and it's not a decision that has
to be made in a short time period. So, I think we can shape that discussion in the
upcoming year, um...
Helling/ One other comment too...now that you've talked about cost containment, that is
something that we're doing on a regular basis. (several talking) Um, and the, part
of the reason why we generally...our expenditures are often less than what we
budget for expenditures is because people don't go out and spend the money if
they don't have to spend, but that's something that we can look at over the course
of time, and...and we will. I'll continue to do that, and...and maybe look at it a
little closer with each department head, and that's something I can do, you know,
is work with each department and (mumbling) into that, that's also part of the
budget process, that we review that in detail before we (mumbling) so that is
something that is ongoing, um, but in terms of the policy issues of services, you
know, if you don't understand the kind of direction I'm talking about, you know,
let me know and I'll be more specific, but...
Bailey/ I think we can better frame that question as we...unless somebody's really eager
to get to that.
Wilburn/ Well, I mean, what you're talking about, I mean, if I were the City Manager,
and I say, `Well, okay, uh, we'll do without, uh, we'll do without neighborhood
services,' or `We'll do without,' uh, you know, and so then you bring that back or,
uh, and I'm not proposing that. I'm just giving an example, uh, or, um, you now,
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uh, a human rights staff person or we'll do without the spy program in Parks and
Rec, and then you, okay, well, here's scenario one. I mean, how many of us are
going to sit here and say, `Well, okay we'll do without a human rights staff.'
How do we enforce our human rights ordinance, so, you know, that's the...that's
the, you set the, uh, you set the person in that City Manager spot up for, um, the
more uneasiness than there's going to be anyway, in the departments, and you get
members of the community, um, upset with something that may or may not
happen, and then if we don't back that policy, if enough of us don't back that
policy position, then everybody's angry, and we didn't accomplish anything.
Except getting (mumbling)
Bailey/ Right, and getting everybody upset because it may come up for discussion and we
may not pursue that and so somebody's really, and...right, I think we need to
more carefully (several talking)
Wilburn/ And that's why I, that's why I believe it's, if you're going to look at it that way,
it's a policy decision for the Council, and again, that's a difficult.. .
Hayek/ No, and I appreciate that. This is an incredibly delicate subject to...to talk about,
and the scenarios approach, I've thrown out there is certainly not gospel, and
maybe the way we do it is to say, `Look we have to do this, let's do an across the
board percentage cut,' and everybody feels the pain, and that way you're not,
you're cutting some service across the board. I mean, or maybe attrition, or you
know, I think we have...I guess the way I look at it is those are pretty deep
conversations for us to have as a body here, and...and maybe the more expedient
thing to do is to focus on 09 and how do we fund this $400,000 that we need, and
take up the bigger issues with time and with more deliberation.
Bailey/ I think that's a good approach, if everybody agrees. I think that would be, um, I
mean, that's kind of the path we're setting out, if we want to move forward into
these hires, we're going to be talking about this all year. Um, so we can see some
numbers that involve this, we want to carry this into our three-year...the
firefighters through our three-year plan. Three firefighters each year, um, and
then.. .
Helling/ As proposed, except we'll take the two police officers out of 10, and three out of
11.
Bailey/ That's what I heard. That's what I heard.
Helling/ Now, are any of the other things you talked about that we should plug in? Deer
control?
Bailey/ We're willing to go down to $50,000 a year on deer control. It would be.. .
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O'Donnell/ Ross had a good point on that though. Um, the...we specifically wanted to
cull the herd down to a certain number within an acre...and um, you know, if
we're going to in anyway affect that, I just really think it's not...for $30,000 it's
not worth...
Bailey/ Well, they're in town right now, right?
Helling/ I was just going to suggest...
Bailey/ So I think there's an opportunity...I think that there's an opportunity to have a
conversation. They're in town right now. So, you know, you could say, `What
would $50,000 buy us?'
Helling/ Oh, yeah, or any....yeah, we can get that, yeah.
O'Donnell/ They're talking numbers rather than dollars.
Helling/ Yeah, the best he can do is project at that point. I don't know exactly how fast,
but if you don't take out a certain number, then the population will grow again.
Bailey/ And with, in respect to the reserve policies, I mean, the percentage 28 has been
tossed out there. Is that...
Champion/ I could live with 28.
O'Donnell/ My recollection was...the reason I suggested five was I thought it was
$300,000 rather than $500,000. That's what we said last year. Or that's what I
recalled (several talking)
Bailey/...was trying to get to the dollar amount. They reduced it by (several talking) so
28? I...
Hayek/ I wouldn't support it, but it looks like I'm in a minority. Because I think...no, I
would want to take it to 30. If we're ending up with an excess of 30, I...to me
those funds are on the table to be used, but I think for market reasons, bond
reasons, perception in the bond market reasons, and the potential, uh, economic or
downturns in the economy that are being forecasted, um, I'm not very
comfortable going below 30 unless...unless staff is, and...I also...
Wilburn/ (several talking) I was suggesting with the other things combined that we talked
about going down, not just (several talking)
Hayek/ But the other thing is this, you know, is there a way to calculate what going, what
dropping our reserve percentage rate down, if that results in a change in our bond
rating, what that costs us in the long run.
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O'Donnell/ That's what we asked last week.
Correia/ We did get data. I mean, I think on average the Iowa medians are higher, but
when I looked at the national medians for triple-A communities, there, the
average of the median, uh, for triple-A unreserved, undesignated general fund
balances percent of revenue, which ours is 15 to 30, the average is 13%, so I mean
I think that it's not just the percent. It's that we have a policy. It's that we
(several talking) policy that we pay off our debt within ten years. I mean, I think
all those things together, make up our triple-A bond rating. It's not just this one
silver bullet.
Hayek/ No, I know, but it's also the fact isn't it that other cities have other revenue
sources that we...
O'Malley/ Yes, and that's what I was going to point out, Amy, that when you look
nationally you have to look at other cities that may have sales taxes that are 40%
of their revenue, so you can easily have a lower fund balance (mumbling)
Bailey/ But we're not talking about, Kevin, going down to 13.
Correial No, we're not, that's why I think 28 seems like, you know, it's two below 30...
O'Malley/ The policy is no less than 15, and really no more than 30, so if you land
anywhere in that, that's fine. If it's over 30, it's my job to come and tell you
we've got too much money. Need to find some place to spend it, or put it towards
something, but if you go to 28, that's still within your policy.
Bailey/ I think we should change the wording so it, so we are in compliance with our
policy. It's not an optimal level of 30, but you know, no more, a ceiling or
something. So, we do that policy approach that that is also important...
O'Malley/ I think if you look, if you're concerned about Moody's, they're going to be
looking to see if you present a balanced budget. They see that you're spending
your reserves no matter what level, that's going to raise a flag. No, if you're
spending very quickly, it's going to be more of a flag than if you're spending
slower.
Wilburn/ And that...and that why also I was talking about the combination of the slight
spindown, but the changes in revenue to show again that you're trying to do a
longer term.
Bailey/ Well, and we could put something in the policies .that talks about our intent for
the next three years of monitoring too. Wouldn't that, would that help?
O'Malley/ Oh, yes.
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Bailey/ So I think probably we need some wording to that degree, so when we approve
this it's included in the policies and we understand that we're going to be
monitoring, you know, to a greater degree than we have in the past.
Champion/ I know this is small potatoes, but the other thing on that list for tonight was
the funding for the new staff at the Senior Center, and I just, um, want to say that
I'm not willing to fund that. I think they have some flex time with. the staff they
have.
O'Donnell/ What was that for? Was that for additional services?
Wright/ It was for temps.
Helling/ It's for two temporary personnel of less than ten hours each, per week, to be in
the building and staff it, basically provide security and so forth, primarily during
the evening or weekend hours, uh, when they have activities going on and
somebody has to be there.
O'Donnell/ That's a security...
Helling/ Yeah, it's just having somebody responsible for the building there, to lock it up
when they leave. Now, if you want more detail, Linda could.. .
Bailey/ Well, I agree with you, Connie, I would like to give that, I mean, that's the
direction...I mean, I think it's great that they have activities in the evening. I
agree with you that, you know, they should look at some flexible scheduling to
get that accomplished.
Helling/ I...I know that they have, that staff and the Commission have looked at it and
talked about it, and tried to come up with ways and so forth, but their feeling is
that they need these people.
Correia/ Well, have they flexed their staff hours?
Helling/ Um, they have in the past. I don't know to what extent or whether they have
enough staff hours to do that. Again, if you want that kind of detail, let's...let's
have Linda come in and you could...
Bailey/ Well, I think we've agreed upon the staff that we're interested in hiring
this...this, I mean, we've prioritized this. So...
Helling/ That wasn't actually, that's not, since it's temporary it's just an increase in their
temporary budget, but we'll just, we'll take it out if that's...
Champion/ Nothing ever stays temporary.
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Bailey/ Well, do we want to talk about, do we want that out of their budget, this
temporary (several talking) what page is that on?
Champion/ I mean, you know, if it's only temporary, that means they're not going to
have night and evening classes or weekends very long.
O'Donnell/ So how much was that $5,000?
Helling/ It was, um, the total was around 10.
O'Donnell/ $10,000?
Karr/ What page you on? (several responding) Thank you.
Bailey/ I mean, I think that's a, I do, I think that's a cost containment measure, and I
think that we should hear why staff...flexing staff isn't working. I'd rather hear
that first than going and hiring temps. That would be my preference.
O'Donnell/ Well, and I don't look at that as cutting a service. I mean, I really don't. It's
something that's additional but.. .
Bailey/ I think it's great that they're open at night. I think that would be good.
Helling/ I'm going to guess, this is only a guess. We'll probably have an opportunity to
discuss it with somebody from the Senior Center Commission on (several talking
at once)
Bailey/ Any other comments or questions? So, what's going to happen next is we're
going to see some numbers, um, you know we can sit with those and make sure
that we made the right decisions tonight, and that we're comfortable moving
forward, and...
Champion/ And we'll get this all redone again?
Bailey/ We'll get that redone, and also what about some language for our policies that
we'll talk about how we will monitor. I think that that will also be a commitment
that we should see, as well, because we're all committed to that, which you know,
means longer work sessions, a couple.. .
Helling/ Let me stress, I think it's more than just monitoring though.
Bailey/ Yes.
Helling/ I think you still need to start soon having those discussions, so that you, you
know and can discuss among yourselves and if we need to go into service cuts
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and that, we have some policy direction before we put the budget together next
year.
Bailey/ Okay, so you'll provide us something to respond to, and...
Champion/ You think we need to add it to our policy...I don't think so.
Bailey/ I think, I suggested adding some, what we will do to monitor this as we move
forward because of the concern about the bond rating, and if it's in our policy, if
certain fiscal responsible behaviors are in our policies, that tends to reflect
favorably on our bond rating.
O'Malley/ You do have on page five the City will maintain budgetary control, etc., and
will prepare regular reports comparing actual revenues and expenditures to
budgeted amounts. By putting the word "monthly" in there.. .
Bailey/ Yeah, I think we should. That's what we agreed to, and I think (mumbling)
ourselves accountable.
Helling/ We're going to get them to you with these positions that you talk about, and
we're not going to make any assumptions about these...we're not going to take
anything out of the budget at this point (mumbling) your control or, is that what
I'm hearing?
Bailey/ What were the other things on the list? Deer control, we want some, do we want
further information about (several talking)
Helling/ Cutting the Library by $50,000, um, economic development money.
Hayek/ I don't think we need those assumptions in there. I mean, we're trying to get to a
fairly small number, $400,000, and you know, a half dozen items that have been
tossed out there get you a fair amount of the way there. I mean, I don't know if it
would help to have those assumptions in there. (several talking) Right, because I
don't think we've reached a consensus on that.
Wright/ No, I don't think we have yet either.
Helling/ No, you haven't.
Wilburn/ I am suggesting that we try and come to a consensus on, well, whatever we can
come to consensus in there, again, to demonstrate that we are going at that three-
headed that I was taking about of...yeah, the three-prong approach, thank you.
Three-pronged approach, and...and putting that out there, and that's a way to
justify what we are attempting...
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Bailey/ That's what I thought I heard as well, is that we wanted to look at those, that, I
mean, I've been getting a sense of what deer control at $50,000 would look at,
and would it completely be a waste of money because it wouldn't get at the
numbers, and shift...I'm not super comfortable shifting economic development
dollars, but there seemed to be a consensus that that could be on the table.
Champion/ Well, because we've never really spent all of it, and I guess...
Bailey/ I was comfortable making those assumptions of taking those out of the budget
(several talking)
Wright/ Actually as the evening has gone on, I'm really not comfortable with shifting up
at $50,000 from the Library.
Champion/ I'm absolutely not going to do it.
Wright/ We have one of the busiest, most popular library programs in the state, and I'm
really hesitant to.. .
Champion/ Well, she was going to replace it with their rent money, and I...
Correia/ ...and even with...with reducing $50,000 from next year's allocation would still
cover 100% of their personnel line, not affect it at all, and even going 3% from
there, I calculated out. That 8/10 levy would continue to cover 100% of their
personnel cost, and they also have the Library levy, so I don't see that...that has
any, would have any drastic impact on our service levels.
Bailey/ Well, and I would like to know what...what impact that would have. I certainly
don't, I mean, I love the Library. I think (coughing, unable to hear) let's not get
into a contest about how much, but I mean, their General Levy amount jumped by
over 7%, where as other departments General Levy amounts are not jumping to
that same degree, I'm curious as to why and I'm curious as the impact, I mean,
$50,000 is a small amount of money in...
Champion/ I thought their own levy jumped 7%.
Bailey/ No. Our general fund levy that we are putting in jumped 7%. Other departments
did not jump to that great a degree. Now I love the Library, and I'm willing to
jump them, you know, but 7% compared to, you know, what is it, around 3% for
the other departments seems a little out of whack to me.
Champion/ We can talk about that.
Wright/ I certainly would like to hear why, if we can figure that out.
Bailey/ We need to talk about that, and we probably need to have Susan here.
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Helling/ Absolutely.
Bailey/ Okay. So, is that on the table to discuss, why that jumped? Okay, is everybody
comfortable (several talking) um, so what else was on that list, Dale? That was
on the table?
Helling/ LTh, okay, economic development.
Bailey/ Is there a consensus those dollars can be touched?
Champion/ I think it's fine, `cause we've never spent all of it anyway.
Hayek/ That's something we need to talk...does the economic development committee,
which meets tomorrow morning...(several talking)
Champion/ Are we meeting tomorrow morning?
Bailey/ Yes, we are.
Champion/ I don't have an agenda. (several talking) I don't have a packet.
Bailey/ Oh, well, anyway, um, are we...(several talking)...are there four, because I'm not
that comfortable doing that, but...are there four who are interested? (several
responding) Okay, go ahead and put that in the assumptions.
Helling/ So that's basically $50,000 every two years, or $50,000 a year.
Champion/ Well, maybe we should discuss tomorrow morning....
Bailey/ We can't. It's not on the agenda.
Helling/ It's $250,000 every two years, so...
Bailey/ You want to cut it by $50,000 a year? Or do you want to cut it by $25,000?
O'Donnell/ $50,000 a year.
Correial$50,000 and then that's what we have in reserve funds, to help when something
comes up, isn't that (several talking) rather have a informal policy about
economic development.
Helling/ I don't think you want to leave too many things open-ended like that, that we're
going to cut but come ask us if you need the money. (several talking)
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Correia/ Well, then I would rather say change our Airport policy, our informal Airport
policy, to say we'll, you know, match you up to $50,000 and reserve that
additional $50,000 that's an informal policy over to economic development, since
essentially it works that way anyway.
Champion/ Let's hold off on economic development. We can always.. .
Bailey/ I think we should. (several talking) What else is on our list, Dale?
Helling/ Well, economic development is...off? Okay. (several talking) Deer control?
Bailey/ Deer control.
O'Donnell/ I thought we needed to talk to them and find out...
Bailey/ If you could find out what $50,000 buys us, and Ross's point, is it just money
down, I mean, if $50,000 doesn't do what we need it to do, or is, or could, I mean,
maybe there's a $50,000 and one year, let's see, what do we spend now,
$160,000, $50,000 one year and we could increase it the next year, it would come
below what we're currently spending annually (several talking) I think we need
some more information about that is what I heard.
Helling/ Okay, so we're not going to do anything with that right now. The Library, we're
not going to do that, right? (several talking at once)
Correia/ ...get more information, but I mean, this is (several talking)
Helling/ Well, no we'll...
Correia/ ...put things on, well, no we don't want to touch that, and we're never going to
get anywhere unless we put things on the table, hear the ramifications.. .
Bailey/ ...and two steps back. We'll get one step (several talking) well, some of us see it
differently. Optimist.
Helling/ Well, we'll get you information on deer control. We'll have Susan come in and
talk about the Library. The parking fines are kinda self-explanatory, um, the fire
inspection fees...
Bailey/ The parking fines we don't need information on right away. We know what it
would generate, and we know that we have that ability.
Helling/ Um, economic development, I think the committee can talk about that. I don't
believe that these are the funds that the Economic Development Committee
allocates though. Isn't this...(several talking)
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Correia/ You're talking about when somebody's putting in...
Bailey/ We're talking about State matching...(several talking)
Helling/ Yeah, this is for larger projects.
Correia/ We've done how many in the last two years? Two? One? One...in two years.
Helling/ Okay, and then, um, fire inspection fees. What are you, we're going to see...
Bailey/ We're going to encourage them to get, to do what they said they were going to do
with funding more of that...that personnel line with the fees. They're behind, is
that what you said, Kevin?
O'Malley/ Yes. Was it Brian or John (mumbling)
Helling/ Yeah, I think they're.. .
Correial The other thing, um, as we project two more years out into the Fire Department
budget with...how often do we look at our contract with the UI? No, no, how
often do we re-estimate...
O'Malley/ Oh, we estimate it every single year.
Correia/ Every year, because I think in two years, the Rec Center, University Rec
Center...(several talking)...
O'Malley/ No, we don't have the Rec Center.
Champion/ No, but it will be figured in.
Correia/ Well, that's what I mean, as we're looking at our budget two years down the
road, we should have that estimate figured in. That should be done by 2011,
shouldn't it? Two years. (several talking) I mean, re-estimate the amount,
because as we're talking about funding those firefighters, they increase...
Helling/ Remember, that's a portion of the square footage, total square footage in the
city. If we have any growth...(several talking at once)
Bailey/ Okay, is that the list? Do we all know where we ended up? (several responding)
O'Malley/ All I had was Fire, Police.
Helling/ So essentially what we'll get you some more information and we'll give you this
with the positions adjusted to take out those (several talking)
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Bailey/ Right, with the proforma with the fund balance. Okay. All right. Connie said we
didn't get a lot done tonight, but I think we've got a lot done. We decided to hire
ten people. That seems a lot, like a lot. (several talking)
Wright/ I was just thinking, when the rest of you went through this for the first time, were
you feeling a little dizzy and...(several responding)
Helling/ I've sat through several of these, and...this is a kind of discussion that's just part
of the process.
Bailey/ It's asausage-making sort of process. Okay, so we'll see the numbers and then
you can, you know, settle your head when you see the numbers and we can
rethink everything we just did, and let's not. Okay? All right. So, see you
tomorrow night, and what time are we doing photographs, Marian?
Karr/ Just like 15 minutes before the formal.
Bailey/ At 6:45, photographs tomorrow night. Okay, thanks. Thanks, everybody, long
night.
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