HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-07-15 TranscriptionJuly 15, 2008
July 15, 2008
Council Present:
Staff:
Other:
Flood Mitigation Plan:
Special City Council Work Session Page 1
Special City Council Work Session 5:30 P.M.
Bailey, Champion, Correia, Hayek, O'Donnell, Wilburn, Wright
Karr, Helling, Dilkes, Lombardo, Davidson, Fosse
Bailey/ All right, let's start this special work session. Um, it's the flood mitigation plan.
Michael, do you have an update for us, um, and which memo would it be?
Lombardo/ Yeah, um, been feverishly, um, typing a memo, just kind of capturing some
of the...the information that we've received over the last, uh, several days, but
then also to kind of, uh, outline some of the decision points that will have to be
made in order for us to structure the Notice of Interest, uh, for...for submittal to
Iowa Homeland Security. Um, and...and so, uh, do you want me to just kind of
go down this, if you would, um.. .
Bailey/ Yes, please.
Lombardo/ What...I've spent some time online trying to get additional information and
get my arms around how much funding might be made available, and just to...to
kind of think through how we might structure this...this program, and I just found
out, um, in fact today as I was searching that since 1993, uh, there've only been
20,000, um, purchases made through the hazard mitigation grant program. I...I
don't know if that strikes you all as...as, um, profoundly as it did me, but...but to
think since 93, only 20,000 homes have been bought out with the hazard
mitigation grant program. That to me is pretty significant.
Hayek/ That's nation wide?
Lombardo/ Nation wide.
Wright/ Um, any idea how many applications they might have made?
Lombardo/ I...I have no idea. This is just straight from, and I've included the URL, but
that's straight from the FEMA web site, with regard to the program. Um,
preliminary estimates based on how they typically, uh, calculate the allocation for
this program. Um, and I forget the percentage, but we're told that preliminarily
there's about $43 million or so that will be made available in the State of Iowa for
the...the buyout program. Now, they...they very quickly preface that and said,
`Certainly there maybe opportunity for additional appropriations,' um, but in
Iowa City alone we have over $50 million worth of...of homes that have been
flood inundated to varying degrees. iJh, I'm told that the number if perhaps close
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to double that in Cedar Rapids. I mean, you begin to see the multiplier effect as
we look across the state and the eighty-odd counties that have been affected, um,
I...just based on that information alone, I...I don't, uh, perceive the ability of this
program to reach, um, even the majority of homes that have been affected in Iowa
City as being possible. Not to say that it won't, but just based on that
information, I think that's a pretty limiting, uh, bit of information. Um, and then
I've listed some of the considerations that...that we need to...to discuss in coming
to a determination. Um, it...you know, is there a...is there a broad consensus
view that, uh, we should be returning properties to open space, and if so, you
know we...I think it'd be relevant to discuss what the implications of that are, not
just in terms of lost property tax revenue, but also then in terms of foreclosing any
opportunities to do anything with the land beyond that, and...and that's part of the
consideration. Do...is there broad agreement that all of, as much space or all of
the space, uh, will be returned to open space or not. Um, and then in terms of
clear objectives for the program, uh, which will ultimately play a role in
structuring the Notice of Interest, um, should we be, uh, advocating for the
property, or for the interest of all the property owners that have expressed interest
in the buyout, or based on the limiting factors that we've just discussed, should
we consider a targeted approach, um, and then begin consideration very quickly
for other flood mitigation measures that maybe, um, appropriate or...or possible
in those areas. Um, on the back of that memo that I just handed out, there's kind
of a neighborhood by neighborhood kind of assessment, and we've spent a lot of
time discussing, uh, this program with the State and Federal folks, and based on
our understanding of how the cost benefit analysis works, um, and given the fact
that the...all of the homes in Idyllwild, which is the first subdivision on here, are
above, elevated above the 100-year flood plain. From every indication that we've
received, it is highly unlikely, if not impossible, for them to meet the benefit cost
analysis as described to us, and so one of the considerations for us are, um, do we
include that or not, and it seems as though, um, based on the information provided
that they will not be funded. Um, Parkview Terrace, uh, different circumstance
there, but...but yet with all of the factors that I've just presented, um, there's
consideration that has to be given there. Of those 132 homes in that subdivision,
um, approximately 25 are actually, the structures themselves, are actually in the
flood zone, uh, in the 100-year flood zone. Uh, we likely will have to do some
additional surveying just to make sure that...that some of that hasn't changed
based on our, um, our maps, but it's around that number and certainly not
anywhere close to the 132 homes in that area. Um, given the restrictions or the
perceived restrictions on the availability of funding, and how the, um, cost benefit
analysis works, uh, I've some concern that if we include all of them in the Notice
of Interest and...and we received kind of a scattered outcome, that we may
foreclose on any, on our ability to provide any additional flood mitigation for the
rest of the neighborhood. Um, if, you know, there are homes perhaps not along
the river but in more that are bought out and others are not, certainly on the
bought out...of the properties that are part of the buyout, we cannot do any other
flood mitigation measures on there, and so my concern is by doing that, are we
going to foreclose on our ability to do anything else down there and then what
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does that mean for future flood events to the...to the remainder of the residents in
that...in that neighborhood. Um, and so one of the questions for consideration
are...are we going to look at the map and make some hard decisions about what
we include in the Notice of Interest, and then start considering other, um, flood
mitigation type measures for the remainder of the property owners there. Um,
Baculis and Thatcher Mobile Home Parks, um, certainly are in the 100-year flood
plain, but we have not expressed interest by the landowners themselves to
participate, uh, and in fact I had a...was in a meeting with, uh, one of the property
owners and he indicated that it is unlikely that he would participate, doesn't mean
that me might not change his mind, but the question is, are we going to include
them, even without a...an expressed interest, or should we at this point, um, not
include them for consideration in the buyout, and then Taft Speedway, all of the
structures are either in the floodway or 100-year flood plain, um, preliminary
damage estimates, and again, we have to finalize that number, but based on the
volume of water that was in those structures, uh, it seems reasonable that they will
meet this substantially damaged threshold, but again, we have to qualify that and
make sure before we submit, um, that is a question on the sheet, uh, and so it
seems reasonable to include them. My question is, is there any reason, and
there's an expressed interest from many of the property owners that they want to
be included. Is there any other consideration that we need to make, uh, as to
whether or not to include them or not. It seems likely that we'd want to include
them in the Notice of Interest.
Wright/ How many homes are there on Taft Speedway?
Lombardo/ About 12 or 13.
Hayek/ Can I get...I got two copies of one memo and not the one you just went over. Do
you have an extra copy for yourself?
Lombardo/ Yeah, I'm okay.
Bailey/ Are there other funds available for projects, um, flood mitigation projects, other
than the buyout program? I mean, if we would develop an objective that has other
projects, will...where will we get the funding?
Lombardo/ We're...we're still waiting for, uh, an indication of what the, uh, additional
appro...uh, funding from CDBG might be, and whether or not there'll be
restrictions. My understanding, Eleanor correct me if that's wrong, but that...was
that there is a way to use possibly CDBG funding for this program. Did
we...seems like we talked about this a long time ago.
Dilkes/ For the local match.
Lombardo/ For the local match, right.
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Dilkes/ Yeah, and we've gotten some conflicting information about that, but I had...I
hadn't heard about CDBG funding for other flood mitigation.
Lombardo/ Oh, I misunderstood the question. I'm sorry. Um...
Bailey/ Yeah, my question is, if we...if we develop objectives and part of...part of what
we do is buyout, but part of what we do is other mitigation activities -levees or
whatever, floodwalls or -where do we get the funding? It seems like the priority
of this program, we've been told, is buyout. Is that...am I remembering things
accurately?
Davidson/ We are expecting an additional allocation of CDBG and Home funds. Um,
we're waiting to hear about that. Everybody's waiting to hear about that.
Bailey/ Right.
Davidson/ The more, and that can be used for flood mitigation matters. I think...the
thing that's key that we're waiting on is that typically that funding comes with
low-moderate income, uh, has to be used in low-moderate income areas that meet
certain qualifying level; however, for events like this, they will frequently waive
that, and that's...that's the key thing that we're waiting to hear, because, uh, with
respect to the neighborhoods that were impacted by the flood, it would give us
much more flexibility, if those funds didn't have those strings attached to them.
Bailey/ And we're talking to our Federal delegation about our interest in, um, waiving
that low to moderate income requirement on those funds? Have...has that come
up in your discussions with Grassley's office?
Lombardo/ I haven't had a specific conversation with regard to that. I think we've all
been...been kind of waiting for a projection of when that information is coming
together.
Bailey/ Okay.
Davidson/ And it's...it's expected shortly. I talked to Steve Long about it. He's the one
monitoring it for the City, and he said everybody's waiting to hear - A the
amount, and B if there'd be a waiver of the low-moderate income (mumbled)
Bailey/ And I'm assuming Steve has expressed our interest in that waiver.
Davidson/ Yes, he has.
Bailey/ Okay, thank you.
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Correia/ Well, and I...did we use special CDBG funding from 1993 to purchase the...that
land below the Peninsula for...so that it wouldn't be developed because it was in
the flood plain?
Davidson/ Amy, that is my recollection, but I cannot say for certain.
Correia/ Okay.
Lombardo/ In terms of the hazard mitigation grant program, um, it is...it's pretty clear
that the...the State objectives are to fund predominantly, if not exclusively, the
buyout program, and so any additional flood mitigation that we would consider,
we would have to approach our delegation and ask for, uh, specific funding...or
you know there maybe grant opportunities out there that we're unaware of
currently, but I wouldn't speculate on this at that point...at this point in time.
Bailey/ Well, there were other appropriations in that previous bill. I just don't know, you
know, what projects they would necessarily align with. I mean, I guess that's
what we need to figure out.
Lombardo/ Right. Ultimately it comes down to our approach for the hazard mitigation
grant program, and...and, um, if we're going to consider other mitigation type
measures, then we have a lot of work to do to begin to structure that dialog.
Bailey/ So what are we thinking? Other...other, what are your thoughts, Council
Members, about how we proceed with this? Are we...I know that we just...
Champion/ I think we need to be realistic.
Bailey/ Okay.
Champion/ And think about the possibilities of where...what we might actually get some
of these funds from the State, um, for the buyout program. It would seem to me
that any properties directly along the river.
Bailey/ Connie, would you put on your microphone?
Champion/ Oh.
Bailey/ I'm having a hard time hearing you.
Champion/ Yes! (laughter)
Bailey/ Thank you.
Champion/ Sorry!
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Bailey/ That's okay.
Champion/ That properties along the river, um, would be a priority, I think, with the State
and...and with me. Um, I also am really concerned about the 15% of local match,
and I would propose again that the local match come from the property owner,
that they are going to be getting, is it 112% of their...
O'DonnelU It's 120%...125% of the assessed value (both talking) 110% of appraised
value.
Champion/ ...appraised value, and they're going to get that money back at closing, uh,
that I don't think our budget can handle it. In fact, I...I know our budget can't
handle it. We're going to have other expenses from this flood besides buyout
programs. So as we construct buyout program, uh, I think the homeowner ought
to come up with the 15% match, the local match. And, um, and low income, I
would be willing to look at use of our Federal funds, our...but not for, not beyond
low income.
Bailey/ So, when you said be realistic, include those properties that make, you said along
the river. So, don't include the...it sounds like don't include the 500-year...
Champion/ Oh, I don't think we're going to get a penny for the 500-year flood plain. I
don't care if people want to apply, but I don't see...this is a small amount of
money.
Bailey/ Uh-huh, it is small.
Champion/ It's a small amount of money, and I don't know how many people have flood
insurance, because that also would reduce the amount of money necessary for the
buyout, um, but it doesn't sound like a lot of people do, um, but I'd like to see us
keep the houses touching...con (several talking) contiguous, thank you (laughter)
so that there is a definite benefit to the, not only to the neighborhood, but gives us
a straight piece of land.
Wilburn/ I wanted to, um, if I can back up a little bit from what you...part of what you
just said, Connie, um, I guess I'm looking at this in a couple...couple different
tracks. One is, you know, here is our, uh, here's what's been affected. So, if one
longer term process we can sort through and figure out is what are we going to do
as a whole, and as a piece of that, there's a piece of funding available based on
criteria that limits this, you know, 100, 500-year flood and all the things that you
went over, and so, uh, in the shorter term, um, it seems to me that I would...I'd
want to focus that particular source of funding on making that as, uh, putting that
grant application together in the, uh, the best way that's going to likely be funded,
meaning, you know, we've got to put together a package that meets the basic
criteria. For, uh, to increase our likelihood, uh, not only of qualifying, but
qualifying versus other communities, because like you said, it's a pot of money
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and others are going to be going after it, uh, similar to, you know, our aid to
agency money, the agencies, I mean, they have lots of identified needs, but we ask
them to target and we look at a specific portion of that need. We don't fund
everything, we...you know, so it...it would seem to me, um, if we include things
that based on the federally, the FEMA-defined criteria, if we include those
portions of it, we decrease the likelihood of getting funding period. Um.. .
Dilkes/ I think that is probably so with most grant funding.
Wilburn/ Is that not the case with this?
Dilkes/ But that is not what we understand the case to be here.
Bailey/ So they could parse our proposal?
Dilkes/ Yes, and we have tried to get a handle on whether there is a downside to
including fewer properties on the Notice of Interest. John Wageman, the State
Hazard head guy, has told us in writing no. Um, that they...that that is not going
to influence their, the way they go through and rank priority.
Wilburn/ So they'll grade us on a curve (laughter) and we'll still (several talking)
Lombardo/ How it'll likely work is what, and this is based on a conversation I had earlier
today, um, with John, is that...that if we include, what we include, uh, in the
Notice of Interest, um, they will do a benefit cost study on each individual
property, and...and it's apparently tied to a one-point scale, is the threshold, and
so if properties score above a one, they will be balanced out to some effect by
properties that fall below that, um, and then overall the project would be viewed
in its entirety, and if it scores above a one, likely what would happen is they
would begin to eliminate the higher, um, scoring properties, until they get to that
threshold where it is at or below a one on their benefit cost analysis. And then
that would be...the properties that would be eligible for funding, and then
certainly the dollar amount that is being applied to the program and specifically to
Iowa City would be a factor, but it's...there's a potential for properties in the 500-
year flood plain to be included, if they were severely...they reached, particularly
if they reached that substantially damaged threshold and are in proximity to the
other 100-year flood plain homes to make it a viable project. Um, but we won't
know that until it gets submitted.
Bailey/ Will they look at the viability of the project, what Connie was talking about,
contiguous properties? I mean, will that come into consideration for a project,
because it seems...it would seem odd that you would jump around. You wouldn't
have a project then.
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Lombardo/ Based on everything I've read and conversations, I've received no indication
that being contiguous is a...a contributing factor, but we can ask that question of
them, certainly.
Dilkes/ I think that's what we're struggling with in terms of narrowing down the
properties we apply for at the Notice of Interest stage.. .
Bailey/ Yes.
Dilkes/ ...is that, you know, if we could take their software and stick all these homes in
there and figure out how it was going to kick out, we might be able to do that, but
not knowing that, I think it's very difficult to make those decisions, and it seems
to me that one of the questions you all need to answer for yourselves is, and
maybe a good way to start would be to say...do you envision something other
than open space for these areas? Do you want something other than open space
for these areas, whether that's residential development and the accompanying tax
base, or some other flood mitigation structure, etc., because if you can say, `No, if
we get our way we'll buy `em all out and...and uh, it'll be open space, and that's
okay with us,' and there are a number of, I know, financial ramifications to that,
then I...it's hard for me to see a downside putting them all on the Notice of
Interest. Assuming, for instance, that you're going to use the local match from
property owners. So that, I think from a City perspective, that's where you.. .
Wilburn/ Well, that...if it's not going to hurt us to do that, then...
Dilkes/ We have had no indication that it will hurt you to be overinclusive on the Notice
of Interest, have...as far as I've heard.
Wilburn/ At this stage in the process, yeah. Then...
Lombardo/ But a consideration is, um, and...and maybe this is different for individual
property owners, but my concern is are we building false hope for a program that,
you know, if people are forestalling any decision about whether or not to rebuild
based on a hope that, you know, maybe, uh, they will be funded through a buyout,
you know, how well is that information going to sit a year or two from now when
they find out that the dollars only go this far, and...and so I'm just trying to think
from a practical perspective, really what is...what is possible with this program or
not, and make realistic decisions about that. I...that's very difficult to say in light
of...of the strong emotional component here, and...and there are so many other
factors that go beyond a dollar cost, you know, practicality, and so that's...that's
the discussion I'm trying to foster here because, um, you know, is it going to be a
hardship for people to try and rebuild a year or two from now when they realize
that...that the dollars are likely not to be made available.
Bailey/ Amy, you started to say something?
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Correia/ Yeah, I think...coming from that beginning place of, I think we need to identify
what we hope to accomplish...
Bailey/ I agree.
Correia/ ...that this question, um, for these areas where, um, where property owners are
saying that they want, they don't want to live there anymore, so whether that's the
buyout or whatever the, wherever it is, um, we identify what do we want, what
does our community want for these areas, and then once you know that, we can
decide, okay, if what we want is open space in all these areas, we apply
everything to this hazard mitigation program, see what they will fund, then find
out are there other funding sources to help accomplish that goal, or we see we
want a portion, specific portion for open space and the other portion for
something else. And how will we fund that something else, what will we do to
manage that something else, whatever that is, and then I think then that will lead
what we do, what we include in the FEMA application, what we try and work
with CDBG/Economic Development funds on or whatever, um, but I think
that's...I think that's where we need (mumbled)
Bailey/ I agree with you. I think we need to figure out what our objective is here.
Champion/ There are some possibilities.
Bailey/ Okay.
Champion/ I mean, you...you can say you want open space. I mean, obviously the
homes that are right along the river are really, I think, destroyed. The water depth
was so high. So, um, I think it's just logical that we either buy them out and we
use this mitigation money. You could then sell that property for river houses,
which could be built above the flood plain. (several talking) No, I mean if we
didn't use the federal funds.
Dilkes/ Oh if you didn't use the federal (several talking)
Champion/ Yeah, and then you could...then you could sell that property as a recreation
lot and what you would build, like they build along the lakes and rivers,
houses...or you know around the ocean. We have oceanfront property. I mean.
the house is six or seven foot up (several talking)
Hayek/ There's simply no way we're going to engage in a buyout project that results in
more housing, or any other structure inhabited by people.
Champion/ I'm just throwing that out.
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Hayek/ I know, but I mean, I just...I think if we pursue buyouts in some form, um, the
result will be some sort of natural topography, uh, whether Frisbee gold course or
high grass plains or something. That's realistically what we will end up with.
Wilburn/ It doesn't seem counter...counter intuitive to the overall goal, the purpose being
safety and, you know, in terms of reducing the possibility of future, uh, when the
next flood happens, having to get police and fire and a big volunteer effort, and so
I've been looking, in answer to that question, I've been looking in terms of can
we purchase this for open space so that it is that natural absorber to (several
talking)
Champion/ That'd be the ideal. (several talking)
Wright/ That's been the assumption I've been kind of hoping some other folks would
constrain to, that we can have a little bit of sponge land, so to speak, help
absorb.. .
Bailey/ Are we talking about both neighborhoods, or are you talking specifically about
one neighborhood or the other? Or...just generally?
Champion/ I think the only possibility at this point for getting federal funds is part of, um,
Parkview Terrace and...and Taft Speedway, I think those are the likely.
Correia/ I guess I don't want to keep talking about the buyout. I guess, um, and the
specifics on whether we include an application. I'd like to talk about what do we
see for our flood mitigation plan, here are the neighborhoods, the areas that are
affected. What do we want to see for those neighborhoods, this...these areas of
town, and then once we put, once we identify that, then that leads...what do we
do now. We...who do we include in the FEMA application? What do we include
in some other type of funding situations?
Wilburn/ I thought I just stated that.
Correia/ I know, but I feel like we keep going back to...
Champion/ Well, I think when you're talking about mitigation you're talking about a big
wall, or a berm?
Correia/ No.
Champion/ And what other, I mean, because I would be against that, `cause that just
increases flooding downstream. I mean, that's part of the problem we have now
is all these dams and berms, are making flooding just move down the river.
Dilkes/ But I think you have to step through these questions one at a time, and I really
think the first question is - is it acceptable, assuming all the money in the world is
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available, forget about the money. Is it acceptable for you to see all these areas
that have expressed interest in a buyout as open space?
Bailey/ That's what I was trying to clarify. (several talking)
Dilkes/ And that, so we...that's the first question, it seems to me.
Champion/ I don't have any problems with that. Because if you leave it without total
mitigation, and it happens again, it's very expensive when people are flooded.
The time and energy and money, and volunteers needed to deal with it. I have no
problems with the open space.
Dilkes/ There is an effect on the tax base, which I think Michael has shared with you.
Champion/ LJh-huh.
O'Donnell/ Well, and it's not a mandatory buyout either, so you could have conceivably
half of the houses along the river chose to stay there.
Lombardo/ And...and that gets back to my prior, uh, thought on, if that's the case
and...and it is this scattered outcome, what will we have accomplished, or what
other mitigation measures will we have foreclosed upon?
Champion/ We will have accomplished nothing.
O'Donnell/ It appears to me like...like with this hazard mitigation grant program, that
they will look only at, uh, and substantially damaged -was that over 50%? Is that
what I'm hearing?
Lombardo/ There about, yeah.
O'Donnell/ And the 100-year flood plain, so you know, it appears if you submit a grant,
you can put anything you want on it, but those will be the priority items
when...when they're looking at it.
Bailey/ So are you suggesting that that's what we include in the Notice of Interest?
O'Donnell/ Well...I'm just saying that, and I...there's something with Michael said,
about building false hopes. I don't want people to think because we submit a
grant it's likely to happen. And you said another very important thing, that it's a
year or two away, if we start receiving money, and I think that's another
important point. It isn't overnight.
Wright/ Substantially damaged properties, you still have the good possibility of there
being kind of a hopscotch effect.
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O'DonnelU Right.
Wilburn/ Well, I think a1so...I don't think you can, we can allow ourselves to...let me
back up a little bit. If we give this indication to the public, that we're proceeding
with the application for the purpose of buyout, open space, um, and as we start the
process, that's when we'll start knowing whether there's truly interest. I mean,
that...those pieces will start to fill in themselves on the map, so we'll...we can
start at the beginning of having an idea, is...you know, is it going to be a
checkerboard, or are there going to be pieces of open space, um, I mean, that part
we're not going to know until we...until we...
Champion/ Well, you won't know until the money is actually.. .
Wilburn/ Well, and the termination. So, but, uh, we can...we don't want to guess
ourselves into inaction. Is what I'm getting at. And, you know, um, I just...I
mean, I want to acknowledge the hit to the tax base, and we can...we can count
up and project, you know, those costs, but there's other costs that we can't, um,
get our arms around in terms of future damage, future potential, injury and death
when the next time the area floods. So, I mean, that's...but again, we don't want
to...we don't want to guess, assume, presume ourself into inaction either.
Hayek/ Let's talk, uh, funding sources, realistic funding sources. Uh, as I understand it,
there are two primary potential sources of federal dollars, the hazard mitigation
grant program and CDBG/Home. Are there any other potential large sources of
funding out there?
Bailey/ For buyout or mitigation?
Hayek/ All of the above.
Bailey/ I would imagine, and I'm just looking at this other list, um, flood mitigation. I
mean, I understood that at one time we had the opportunity to elevate Dubuque
Street, in 93. Was that funding CDBG or was it highway funding? CDBG?
Okay. So...
Hayek/ Actually, let me stop you there, because maybe...I think what I'm looking at
more is a way of answering for ourselves what the fate of these neighborhoods,
what these residences will be, and so in terms of either buying out or protecting
flood affected, or at risk properties, what other source is available to us? And it
seems like it's the hazard mitigation grant program and CDBG/Home. Um...
Lombardo/Barring any special appropriation specific to Iowa City and for that purpose, I
would say you're right.
Hayek/ Okay. I mean, on CDBG/Home, what's our annual...we get a million and a half
or...a year for...
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Correia/ Should be a special allocation.
Hayek/ Right, but...
Bailey/ Not much...
Hayek/ ...to put it into perspective, we get about a million and a half a year?
Davidson/ I think we just received notice today it'll be a million point two five.
Hayek/ 1.25...and the market value of all of Idyllwild's around $20 million, and so I, you
know, it would seem to me to take a massive increase in our local CDBG and
Home grant to begin to meet that...
Davidson/ And we're not going to know exactly. Steve Long has speculated that, you
know, we'd be doing really, really well if we ended up with another $2 or $3
million. And...and, but that's the order of magnitude. It's not going to be $20
million.
Hayek/ Right.
Davidson/ I did want to point out, Matt, we are also anticipating that there will be some
federal transportation funds made available. We don't know what...for what or
how much or that, but, uh, the...FEMA has indicated to us that for roads and
bridges that were damaged, that would likely come through Federal Highway
Administration, so...doesn't really help you that much this evening in talking
about the neighborhoods, but that is a source of money that we would receive for
transportation infrastructure.
Hayek/ Right.
Bailey/ Is that for damage or mitigation? Or do you know yet?
Davidson/ Um, well, in the case of, say if Dubuque Street or Park Road had been
damaged, you could use it to build a new structure that would both mitigate future
hazard, and repair the damage that had been done. (mumbled)
Hayek/ I could see some limited circumstances in which raising a roadbed or a train bed
could protect an adjacent neighborhood, but I don't think we have that here.
Davidson/ Well, protect or have the opposite effect, and that all has to be evaluated.
Hayek/ Yeah.
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Davidson/ That was a big factor in `93 when we talked about elevating Dubuque Street,
was that there was a big political question that it was just going to push water
back into Coralville, and uh, that was one of the reasons I think that Council
declined to do it at that time.
Bailey/ I just want to toss out an idea, and I'm...I don't know fu11y...I'm not...everybody
said that they saw both areas as open space, and I'm not sure that I see the
Idyllwild area as necessarily as open space. Um, given that, I mean, and I'm not
sure so I'm not absolutely certain how I feel about this, but given that it is
elevated, and I'm not sure that that's the best use of that area down there. I mean,
I understand the Normandy Drive area as open space adjacent to the park, but
when we talk about objectives and how we envision building the community,
that's something that I've looked at.
Wright/ What are you thinking might be appropriate?
Bailey/ I'm not sure. I mean, I have concern about putting Idyllwild on the list, given
that it might not meet the threshold. I have concern about the false hope concept
and I'm...I have concern about the property tax base. Um, and do...are there
other mitigation, um, activities that we should be looking at, or is open space the
best use of it? I'm just exploring those ideas and would welcome other people's
thoughts.
Wilburn/ I guess there's two things that come to mind forme. Uh, just in hearing you
talk and kind of think through that, um, in terms of like Idyllwild. One is if it's
not going to hurt the application, um, then that doesn't seem, that relieves a
concern that I had, but the second, in terms of false hope, I mean, we...I think
there's an element of us communicating to the public, um, and putting out there,
uh, through staff, putting out there through the media, uh, here's the criteria.
We're going to get it assessed. Um, it doesn't look likely, but we're going to
include as part of the package. I mean, that's...that's trying to be realistic, but
still allow the avenue as to, you know, if there is someone who might be
interested in the area in the buyout, um, (mumbled) a chance to see if it qualifies
or not, so...
Bailey/ And you see that as a good open space area, too? I mean, you're.. .
Wilburn/ If...if, uh, again, for the purpose of, uh, future preventing...mitigating future,
for the purpose of the funding, then I would say, yeah, try and buy them out and
keep it open space for the purposes of that sponge, shook absorber -whatever you
want to call it.
Hayek/ I'm trying to...
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Wilburn/ Excuse me, it may not end up, but again, we're...we're putting out that we're
going to see, we're going to try, we'll put in an application. If it doesn't, then
that...that answers that question right there.
Hayek/ I think it's important for us to maintain a distinction between what we've been
talking about and need to decide in the near future, and some of these more
structural decisions. I think, from my perspective, we need to decide soon
whether and how we will structure our Notice of Interest.
Bailey/ Yes.
Hayek/ We have a deadline, and we can't miss that, um, and if in fact we can be
overinclusive with no ramifications, negative ramifications, that maybe
something we want to do, even if, you know, as long as we can throw out the
appropriate caveats to avoid...to temper expectations. That's one thing. The
other thing is, what we want our riverfront to look like; how we foresee using
these areas, even if we had the dollars to do something with that, and that to me
seems to require more in-depth planning and engineering and...and input from
people we haven't heard from yet, because we've been busy looking at this other
issue. Amore deliberative process to figure out what we want along the
riverfront.. .
Champion/ That can happen later.
Hayek/ ...that could happen...
Dilkes/ And I'm not saying that you need to determine how you're going to use that area.
All I'm saying is that if you put all these properties on the Notice of Interest, I
think you have to have made a determination that open spaces -that's what it's
going to have to be - is okay with you. I'm not saying how, what, I'm just saying
but open space, and I gave you the definition of open space in the...in the regs,
and it actually encompasses more than you might think, but just...not any details,
but just...look at it this way. You put all those properties on the Notice of
Interest, and they say, `Gosh, we have more money! We'll buy `em all! We'll
give you money to buy `em all!' Then that would have had...you would have
had, you're committing yourself to saying open space is fine with us. That's only
the level I'm talking about, just that very simple - is open space acceptable,
because then I think the next question is then what are the downsides to including
everyone on the notice, and what's the funding mechanism.
Hayek/ If...seems to me, if we're trying to answer that in time to either do or not do the
Notice of Interest, um, it's hard forme to say, let's say with respect to Parkview
Terrace, we should do that in some of it or most of it or all of it, without knowing
a little bit more from engineers or other planning staff as to what it might look
like. Um...
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Wright/ As to what?
Champion/ I don't think that's necessary.
Hayek/ Well...no, could, could we...could we protect two-thirds of it by buying out one-
third of it, and doing something, um, to preserve the existing housing stock, make
it safe, um, and what would the impact on water flow be, on the environment and
otherwise. That would just be one example.
Dilkes/ But I think then if you need that information to make that base decision about
open space, then we need to get that information and you guys need to decide,
because I do think that that is a threshold question for submitting the Notice of
Interest on these properties.
Lombardo/ And...and to follow up, let's presume for an instance that we do submit all of
the properties in the Notice of Interest, and, you know, and then the determination
comes from the State that, yes, you'll be invited to apply based on all of that, and
are we prepared to embrace that and then, how...you know, structure the program
accordingly, or are there certain funding decisions that need to be made in
advance that might temper that decision. It's one thing to put `em on there and
just see where the chips may fall, but then there are other considerations about the
level of funding and how we structure the program in the event that it does pass,
and so there's some other things that have to be decided kind of on a parallel
track, in addition to, you know, whether or not we foresee there being open
spaces.
O'Donnell/ Do we know, Michael...
Dilkes/ It's trying to...(both talking)...each question one at a time.
O'Donnell/ We know that Idyllwild wants bought out 100%, right? That's been
submitted.. .
Lombardo/ I don't know 100%. I know that the vast majority do, but...but I don't know
if it's specifically 100%. There are a lot of questions with regard to the...how
that, the ownership rights are structured and, you know, um, you know, if...if one
or more of the units in a four-plex is eligible, all of, you know, the entire building
would have to be raised or included, and then...what about, um, differences of
opinion with regard to property owners. There are a lot of complicating factors
with regard to Idyllwild, um, I don't even know if we begin to approach that,
because every indication that we've received is that it is almost impossible for
them to meet the benefit cost analysis.
O'DonnelU Right, but...but what I...I thought we received a letter from the association
president there that 100% expressed interest.
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Dilkes/ We had a petition signed by most all unit owners. There were some exceptions, a
few exceptions.
Champion/ There are some rental properties there also, and does that qualify? (several
talking)
Dilkes/ There would...
O'Donnell/ But do we have that same knowledge on the Parkview Terrace area?
Lombardo/ Again, we've received I think a petition, but we haven't done an estimate or a
calculation of, and matched that up with actual properties at this point.
O'Donnell/ And do we know the 14 to 16 houses along Taft Speedway, do we know
where they stand?
Lombardo/ Off the top of my head, I...I don't, um, one of the...as we got kind of
marching orders for proceeding, our expectations were that we would both online,
and I appreciate that we've received some expression of interest, whether it's
100% or not, but that we would formalize that through both a signup procedure
online, and then open up very specific office hours, uh, during varying times of
the day and evening and weekend to have...to document that and have people
come in specifically and...and discuss the program, answer any final questions,
and then have them decide 100% whether or not they wanted to...to be
considered as part of the buyout or not. So I...I appreciate that we've received
some information, but I'd like to formalize that and make sure we exactly know
what that expression of interest is before we...we submit.
O'DonnelU And we need to do that very soon, don't we? Because don't we have...we
have to have a, um, Notice of Interest by the 12th of September?
Lombardo/ Right, right, and keep in mind we do have folks from Iowa Homeland
Security and FEMA who will be coming to a meeting that we have to discuss a
little bit later on the 29th, and so we're trying to...we're trying to accommodate
the...the information-gathering, information-sharing, and then, um, how does that
juxtapose against the deadlines for filing, um...
Champion/ Are we at all in agreement that we should file for the buyout program? Have
we ever just decided whether we really want to do that?
Bailey/ I thought I heard agreement in...early on that we were interested in some
variation of the buyout program.
Champion/ Okay.
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Bailey/ So, okay, that's one thing that we've agreed upon. So, I want to make sure I
understand and we understand the decision points. We file...so, if for example
we put all properties on; we file the Notice of Interest with all properties; they
come back and say yes, apply, with all of these properties; we'll run them through
the cost benefit analysis; at what point, if they would accept all of those, um,
where do we get to say, `Whoa! Wait a minute,' um, perhaps we can't afford, or
only certain ones of these will be able to do the match. I mean, is there a grant
contract at which we...
Dilkes/ Our understanding, um, is that there would be, once they would accept the
application, then they would ask you to sign a grant agreement.
Bailey/ Okay.
Dilkes/ So, legally I think that you would not be bound until the signature on the grant
agreement.
Bailey/ So, legally we wouldn't be bound until they told us how much money we were
getting and for which properties?
Dilkes/ That's the indication we have at this point.
Bailey/ Okay.
Champion/ Well, it's unrealistic to think we're going to...that they're going to do
everything, because the whole amount of money the State is getting is not going
to cover Iowa City, so for some reason, unless we get out of Iraq, I don't see $90
million coming here. I don't see it happening, so, I think we need to be a little
realistic, and...
Bailey/ Realistic with what we put on the Notice of Interest?
Champion/ Yes, yes!
Bailey/ Okay. So, what are you suggesting on the Notice of Interest? Let's just...
Champion/ Well, I'm suggesting that we do (both talking) things that will benefit the city,
uh, and benefit the river, and that we try, you know, that the 100-year flood plain
is obviously the only thing that's going to get funded.
O'Donnell/ And the substantially damaged...
Correial But I don't, right, but I don't...
Champion/ And the substantially damaged, uh, properties. I mean, I'd love to see
everybody get their buyout agreement. It's just not going to happen! It's
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unrealistic to think that...we shouldn't even talk about what are you going to do if
they accept the whole thing - it simply isn't going to happen.
O'Donnell/ (several talking) Excuse me. Are you through? Having never been through
this before, when we submit our Notice of Interest, are they likely to come back
and say, `We will...our interest is in the 100-year flood plain, and those
substantially damaged,' are they likely to do that?
Lombardo/ No. What they'll do is, uh, perform a calculation on each individual property,
based on their model, and as I'd indicated earlier, based on that one-point
threshold, what's above, what's below, and...and they'll start, likely, as they
described to me, at the highest number and keep whittling it down until they come
to a level of...of properties that get the cost benefit as a project...project as a
whole, from above one to below one, and what that one is, it's just their increment
scale.
Bailey/ And that's from the application.
Dilkes/ Yes.
Bailey/ That's, yeah, that's...because we have to meet the first (mumbled) if they
actually invite us to apply, which is also a possibility. They say $43 million,
we're going to give it all to Cedar Rapids, I mean, I suppose that could be an
option.
Wilburn/ Can Iask afollow-up question related to the application then too? And so, after
they come back and say, um, `Yes, uh, here's the properties that qualify, and you
are invited to submit your full application,' are you allowed to modify or, you
know, reduce that number, or is it, `Yes, you qualify and if you submit or are
invited to submit, and you must submit for what you qualify for.' Do you see
what I'm saying?
Lombardo/ My understanding is if they've been included in the Notice of Interest and
they've been approved for funding that the expectations are that they would carry
through.
Dilkes/ In question number two on the memo of July 10th, the...from Jeff, we set forth
our best understanding of how this process'll work. The City submits the Notice
of Interest by September 12th. The State then reviews the Notice of Interest. The
State will ask communities then to submit formal applications about mid-October,
with no additional information. They're not going to say submit applications for
this property or that property, but just do your formal applications. Um, the City
will be given a minimum of two months to submit a formal application. The State
will send the application to FEMA. FEMA will take, uh, several months to award
the grant, and then the City will sign a grant agreement with the State, after that
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award is made. And then buyouts may begin. That's the best information we
can...
Wilburn/ So we don't know.
Correia/ If...if, most of us are saying we can see all of these areas returning to open
space, then I think that would lead a decision to include all of the voluntary
property owners, applications in this FEMA application, and not say we're not
going to include applications that we don't think meet a threshold, that we're not
sure how they model it, um, and therefore, we're just limiting the opportunity for
that property owner for the Council's goal of returning these areas to open space,
if that's what Iheard -that most of us think, you know, it would be good to return
these areas to open space.
Champion/ Are you suggesting that we allow all applications to go?
Correia/ Yes.
Champion/ Well, that's a little unrealistic to me. I mean, it's going to take a lot of staff
time, and a lot of time to review those, and a lot of staff time to do them.
Correia/ We have...
Champion/ It's unrealistic.
Dilkes/ I think, remember what the Notice of Interest is, and in fact maybe the name of
the form speaks some volumes. Notice of Interest is what it is, and it's just, it's
not that we're forwarding applications from other people. We're just filling out
those lines for each property about what's the assessed value or what's 110% of
the assessed value, what's the...the biggest information that we have to get in
order to fill out that form is a substantial damage estimate, and we're in the
process of gathering that information. So...
Wilburn/ Well, the reason I asked the question I asked, because...I wasn't saying that, uh,
okay, now we get it and, um, we're going to narrow that number down because
we can't...the question or the concern that I'm hearing is about the fiscal impact,
and so I'm saying if we're...if we are allowed and it sounds from what Eleanor
reminded us of and read off, we don't know if you are allowed to, uh, at that
point, you know what, here's the overall financial impact. We can't afford that
right now, but here's what we can afford, and going from there, that's what I...if,
if the hang-up is at this point, um, an overall fiscal amount that we don't know
what's going to be, why not go through with it if we're allowed to, you know, at
that point say, and here, we've got hard numbers, we can take a look at our budget
at the time, and then we can...if need be, and if we get awarded, make that
decision.
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Bailey/ We can look at a draft of a Notice of Interest, and get that sense, and even have a,
I mean, a decision point there that, you know, this impact is too great, we couldn't
make this local match, or we're concerned about the local match. I mean, that's
one way we could step through this, is see what the list looks like, see what the
entire list looks like, um, that's certainly an option. So, I'm hearing a couple
different things. I'm hearing some people are...are interested in putting all
possible properties on here, of everybody who's interested in the buyout program,
um, Connie is interested in focusing this more realistically. I think that's what I
heard Mike say, so where are we at with, um, are most people interested in putting
all the properties on here?
Hayek/ Let me ask a question first. What...what if...and I'll use Parkview Terrace again
as the example. What if we listed every property that's on our list right now on
the Notice of Interest, um, we file it and at some point before we actually file an
application, our engineers or somebody with authority says, `You don't actually
have to take out all of the properties. You can buy out, uh, Normandy Drive and
expand the flood area and create a berm and do something that will not impact
people upstream or downstream or across the river, but will get the job done and
will actually improve things the next time around,' and so we don't really have to
buy out everybody because we can protect the ones we don't buy out. What
happens if something like that occurs, and we've submitted a 100% NOI?
Dilkes/ I...I don't think the Notice of Interest binds you, other than the expectations that
you're talking about in terms of creating false expectations or whatever that I
think you need to address, but I don't think it binds you to do anything. Do you
have any indication otherwise? No.
Wright/ As I'm understanding it, we can submit that Notice of Interest and then basically
edit it. If we so choose, if we find a need, if we have more information down the
road indicating that 100% buyout is not necessary, we don't have to put all those
properties, submit all those properties, at the next step.
O'Donnell/ I would...
Lombardo/ As tough as this decision is, do you see this body making decisions after the
fact, based on what has been approved for funding, and saying then, `No, we're
not going to include it.'
Champion/ What if, well, I mean, I think what you're saying is very interesting because
when I went down and walked around Normandy Drive or, I want to call it
"mosquito flats," but I'm not, it's...Parkview Terrace, um, there were a lot of
houses that really just had their basements wet and then some just a couple feet of
water in the house, although, good heavens, that's plenty. I don't mean that, but
the house was not totally destroyed, and is recoverable. So, I think when you look
at possibility of buying those closest to the river, that really are, um, severely
damaged, like probably can't be saved without, you know, huge amount of
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money, uh, then I could see trying to protect the houses that are kind of out of that
100-year flood plain, uh, I...I object to like dams and berms that are going to
make things flood for...more downstream, but you could come inland then and do
something.
Lombardo/ May I...may I address that specifically?
Champion/ Uh-huh.
Lombardo/ We...we talk about our concerns about potential effects of flooding upstream
and downstream based on flood mitigation measures, but yet we did our level best
to build a wall to keep water out, and so in effect we had, I mean, we proceeded
without any...any specific calculation or concern about what may happen up or
down stream.
Champion/ Well, you've just eliminated my whole (mumbled) to the neighbors.
Lombard/ It's not to say that we should not consider that, if we are to look at additional
flood mitigation measures, but I want to make sure we're looking at it in the
proper light.
Champion/ Right, thank you.
Wright/ That's a very good point. The other thing that I think we need to realistically
bare in mind is that there's not going to be enough money, from anything that I
see, to buy out all the properties or even all the expressions of interest.
Bailey/ So do we include them or not is the fundamental question that we have to decide.
If we believe that there's not going to be enough money, do we include them on
the list and see what we can get and proceed accordingly, or do we develop a plan
based upon, you know, what we think we might get or what seems realistic or
based upon a plan... a vision of how we want to use the riverfront, and then put
those properties, as Connie has suggested, on the Notice of Interest, and that's
really the decision point tonight. I mean, we need to give some direction to staff
because if we're going to include all of these properties, I mean, even though this
form is fairly simple, we need to start gathering this information, and then we
need to take a look at what we've gathered and make sure that we're okay with
proceeding in that manner. So...
Wilburn/ I had, um, a slightly different thought, uh, Michael, in response to kind of what
you were getting at, uh, Connie, um, it's part...another piece that makes this
difficult in terms of trying to think of future mitigation is, you know, we had this
experience, we had a prior experience, uh, and you know, you're looking at, okay,
a few basements were flooded here versus, you know, up to the second floor, but
we very well could have had another couple days of rain up north, and those, so
that...those maps were modified, but you know, it's...it's a tough judgment that
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we're trying to make. Um, and then the second piece that, uh, you know,
Michael, you had brought up, uh, you know, uh, if everything comes back, or a
large, are you prepared to start taking a look at that, um, I'm sensing this is
getting back at your false hope type question, or at least that's what I was thinking
of, uh, let me finish my thought here. Again, I go back to my earlier statement
that, uh, if I've got members of the public coming to me, uh, and this is just my
thinking and how I would go about the decision-making process, um, at not
building up false hope but being realistic with the public, um, you know, gee,
you're not even going to see if it's possible. I understand it's difficult, but, uh,
you know, is this body prepared to make the hard choice, because I'm saying
there's a hard choice at either end.
Lombardo/ Absolutely.
Wilburn/ Uh, I'd rather say to folks, you know, we're going to include it. It doesn't look,
you know, you need to make some decisions for yourself. It doesn't look like, or
it's...based on these criteria, it may not...it would be a hard sell perhaps, uh, but
we'll include it, and later on when the hard numbers come back, and uh, I'm
comparing it to our budget and future impact on our budget, you know what?
You can be angry with me, but this is the decision I've got to make based on this
as opposed to I'm not even going to give you, uh, a chance to see. That's
just...that's kind of where I'm thinking about...about this, so...
Champion/ That's a political decision.
Bailey/ That's the kind...
Champion/ And that's okay! (laughter)
Wilburn/ Well, I mean, like I said, there's no easy answers. There's no...it's, there are
tough decisions to make. It's just at which point do you wish to make your tough
decision and based on what criteria, and that's the criteria that I've outlined for
myself.
Bailey/ So can we give some direction to staff, so we can at least...begin to step into this?
Are we...do we have a sense of what direction we'd like to go? I've heard that
some would like to include all the properties, and I've heard some would like to
focus, but where are we with...
Hayek/ Before I can answer personally, I...I want to ask another question, and I think it
may have been asked and answered already, but...does anyone have any sense
that being overinclusive in our list hurts our chances with the more realistic
properties?
Dilkes/ (several talking) No.
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Champion/ It doesn't!
Dilkes/ In fact, Sue in my office asked that direct question to...to Mr. Wageman, and he
replied by email that, no, there was no downside to being overinclusive.
Bailey/ And we can hear that answer I suppose again when we do the town hall meeting.
Dilkes/ I mean, that's just...that's, because we were con...you know, concerned about
that.
Lombardo/ And...and the only, I mean, just free thinking, which is always a dangerous
thing, um, of how that maybe harmful is if certain properties in one subdivision,
um, score well in regard to the cost benefit, and...and then you have, you know,
just one or very few properties that...that are invited to be included in the buyout,
I don't see that happening, but it just, you know, if we're to look at it from all
different angles...it may, but I doubt it will.
Correia/ Forme, my thinking is because we can't know all of those things, and because
it's such a short amount of time between making this decision and September 15th
deadline for the Notice of Interest, I'd like to see all applications submitted
because it doesn't harm us. It keeps all of our options open, um, and.. .
Wright/ I agree with you completely.
Champion/ Oh I don't object to all the applications going. I mean, I don't have any real
objection to it, I just don't see the money coming.
Wright/ I don't see the money coming either, but as I was saying, once we know what we
might actually be able to do, we're going to have to make some hard decisions
looking at the remaining properties.
Bailey/ So, I...I don't want to rush a difficult decision. We will have other opportunities
to look at this, but we do have other things that we want to talk about before the
formal meeting. Should we provide some direction to staff to include all these
properties? Is everybody reasonably comfortable with that, knowing that after the
July 29th meeting and when we see this draft Notice of Interest, that we can
rethink this, if people feel like, `Oh my gosh! What did I...' ...are we comfortable
with proceeding in that manner?
Hayek/ I would say as long as it does not limit the City's options I would support an
expansive list.
Champion/ If we're going to do it an expansive list, and we're going to look at a draft list,
I don't think we should screw with it. Send it! I mean, just don't start talking
about reducing the list after it's done, you know? It's going to have to (mumbled)
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Bailey/ So, okay, so what you're saying tonight is if we go with an expansive list,
when...you don't want to rethink it, but...so, that's the direction that I feel
generally is include all properties. Right?
Hayek/ I'm not hearing a convincing reason why not to do that.
Bailey/ Okay. Have what you need? Okay. Um, let's talk about tax abatement.
Tax Abatement•
Lombardo/ Um, I provided just some broad kind of factors to...to consider, and I guess it
comes down to the extent to which Council would like to deliberate on this or not.
Uh, City Council does not have statutory authority to abate property taxes, um, I
think what the County Board of Supervisors are looking for is some level of
indication from the other taxing entities, uh, whether there's an interest in, um,
supporting that and conveying that on so that they can take that into consideration
in their own deliberations, um, for...for several considerations, I've just kind of
enumerated some bulleted items. Um, my recommendation is that we not
entertain it, and if you wanted to discuss any of these issues or not, uh, it's
certainly up to you. I'm happy to answer any questions, but um, you know, we
continue to provide services, um, we're incurring a lot of costs that will not be
reimbursable, uh, outside of the broad kind of policy discussions, you know,
there's a lot of things to consider if we're to entertain that, and then to...to what
effect, given that it's another political bodies, um, decision point, and so the
question becomes how...how strongly do you want to advocate one way or the
other? Do you want to take a position or not, and you have my recommendation
that it's not something we'd pursue.
Champion/ We didn't provide tax abatement for tornado-stricken houses and businesses.
Correia/ No, and in fact the County has never abated property taxes. (several talking) I
do, I agree.
Bailey/ I agree with you on that. (several talking) Okay. And you'll communicate that
to the County Board?
Lombardo/ Yep.
July 29 Town Hall Meeting:
Bailey/ Um, we had some questions last night about the July 29th, um, town hall meeting
and how we want that structured. Let's talk about that. Um, Michael, I think you
have some ideas of how you want to proceed with that, or thoughts, and then why
don't you throw them out there and...
Lombardo/ I wasn't multi-tasking very well. I was writing a note to self.
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Bailey/ That's okay. July 29th (mumbled)
Lombardo/ July 29th meeting -yeah, um, I've extended an invitation to the folks at Iowa
Homeland Security and FEMA, and am waiting to hear specifically who will be
coming, uh, to that meeting, but certainly how we structure it will govern the
extent to which you all are able to participate and debate and deliberate and...and
the public, if we structure it as a Council meeting versus a work session, or, uh,
just kind of an open meeting. Eleanor, I don't know if you want to expound on
that at all or...
Dilkes/ Yeah, I think you need to decide what role you see Council playing or not
playing. Um, if...if Council is not going to be addressing questions, then it's fine
for you to sit in the audience and listen to the answers, as some of you did at the
other forums, um, if we don't...if we don't notice it as a Council meeting, you
just couldn't...you couldn't engage in debate, discussion among yourselves. You
would just have to, as Pat White used to call "sit there like tree stumps."
Champion/ Well, can we just make it a Council meeting with an open forum? I mean, we
wouldn't have to sit at the formal table, would we?
Dilkes/ Well, if you, yeah, you can make it a Council meeting, if that's what...I think you
need to decide what the purpose of the meeting is. L ..I thought the purpose of the
meeting was to get the FEMA people to answer questions.
Correia/ Right, but if during that presentation of officials, a Member of Council has a
question.. .
Champion/ Right.
Correia/ ...and wants to ask the question, because I imagine there'll be a mic, I mean,
there'll be, they'll take questions from the audience.
Lombardo/ In...in discussing this with, uh, John Wageman is, um, he indicated that, you
know, they're happy to be there to answer questions, but...but this would not be
their forum, and they would expect that I or staff or in some way, we would
structure perhaps a broad presentation and then have, um, a Q&A period, but this,
you know, they're sensitive, these are not necessarily a trotting out to...to, you
know, they want to be informative and helpful, but they don't want to be the
whole show. They want it to facilitate a broader dialog that we...we feel is
necessary.
Bailey/ And I anticipated that we would notice it as an open meeting, that the panel
would consist of staff and Homeland Security, people from Iowa, um, Iowa. I
also would suggest that we limit the town hall meeting to a couple of hours, an
hour and half or whatever, and then also schedule a work session after, just in
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case we want to discuss anything we've heard, or that changes any approach that
we want to take on a Notice of Interest, so we have that option, although we
wouldn't have to.
Champion/ That's a good idea, Regenia.
Bailey/ And...but I anticipated that the role of Council primarily would be to listen, and
ask questions if...if the questions weren't being asked, but I didn't...so I
anticipated that we would notice it as an open meeting. Does anybody have
concerns. .
Champion/ But it would have to be a Council meeting, so if we wanted to ask questions
we could.
Bailey/ Right, right. Yes.
Champion/ But we wouldn't be sitting up here at a formal table.
Bailey/ No. I anticipated that that would be staff and, um, Homeland Security, FEMA
people. Is...any questions, concerns, other ideas?
Hayek/ I guess I'm...I'm open to an arrangement like that where we can...if we want to
ask questions I think is dangerous for us to engage in any deliberation in the
middle of a town hall meeting (several responding) or even answer questions,
because somebody asks me a question that I attempt to answer may not reflect the
views of the majority, and...and that's just dangerous water to tread, and so, um,
it seems to me we ought to be bumps on a log. I suppose if we, uh, or tree
stumps.
Dilkes/ Tree stumps.
Hayek/ Tree stumps, and um, (several talking) Yeah, and uh, but I'm open to, if it's
appropriate, having people ask questions if...if (mumbled)
Wright/ I think we should be able to ask questions along with anybody else, to make sure,
like somebody said, that the questions get asked...
Bailey/ ...understanding.
Wright/ ...but we're not going to be there to be doling out information. We're going to
be absorbing with everybody else.
Dilkes/ Asking questions I don't think creates the meeting. If you want the ability to
communicate and discuss and debate with each other, then...then we need to
notice it as a meeting. If you don't want that, then I don't think we should, and
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frankly, if you don't want that and we haven't noticed it as a meeting, you can't
do it.
Bailey/ Right. So...
Karr/ Just to clarify one thing. This'll be at the Senior Center, um, and it will be
broadcast and web cast live.
Hayek/ Okay.
Bailey/ And, what about the concept of the work session after, just in case? Are people
open to that idea, and limiting the town hall meeting?
Champion/ I think that's a great idea, while things are fresh in our mind.
Bailey/ I mean, we'll cancel it if we don't need it. I'm not a big proponent of meetings
that are not (mumbled)
Karr/ Do you want to come back down here to do that? To make the break? Or just stay
up there?
Bailey/ Doesn't matter to me, if people are interested in doing that. We don't know yet...
Lombardo/ I think keeping it one venue is probably more appropriate. You'd rather not
have people in droves walking to and from, and then having to set up here. It's
just easy enough to take care of it in one venue.
Bailey/ Are people interested in that work session after, or...one, two...
Hayek/ I guess, I mean, my preference probably would be to tack it on to a work session
a few days later to let us digest whatever materials we receive that night, and if
it's a two...two and a half hour thing, adding another hour or two to it will make
for a very long.. .
Bailey/ Right, but our next...our next opportunity is two weeks, and I'm not sure about
our schedule ability to actually schedule...
Karr/ August 11`h, and it's combined work session and formal.
Bailey/ That's what I was (several talking)
Hayek/ And that's fine if people want to do that.
Wright/ If this starts, if the town meeting starts at 6:30 or 7:00, and we're going to limit
the time to maybe an hour and a half, we'd still be able to handle a work session.
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Champion/ It might only take us ten minutes. Or might not need it at all.
Bailey/ Um, okay so do you want the ability to talk with one another during the town hall
meeting.. .
Champion/ No.
Correia/ I don't think so.
Bailey/ But we would have the ability to ask questions of the panel.
Dilkes/ I think so.
Bailey/ Okay, so...if I hear everybody correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, we're not
going to notice it as a Council meeting, but we will have a work session following
it. We will limit the town hall meeting. It'll have some end point, and um, we
have the ability to ask questions. Anything else we should know about that?
Dilkes/ I don't think so. I think we...we've also talked about, um, as staff putting, having
a list of questions to pose to them to make sure certain questions get answered.
Lombardo/ And...and if you have specific questions, funnel them to me now and, you
know, there maybe some that we can incorporate into a presentation that get
answered then, as opposed to a Q&A which might be rather lengthy.
Dilkes/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Does that, what do you think of that structure? Does that work (several talking)
and then you can communicate that to the people at Homeland Security
(mumbled) Okay.
Lombardo/ If...if I could ask if you could get me questions by perhaps next Tuesday or
Wednesday, at the very latest, sooner is better and that'll give us plenty of time to
make sure we work on this.
Bailey/ Okay. Especially if there are questions that came up today about the Notice of
Interest that were unclear, we don't...that we want to reiterate or...or, yeah, okay.
Any other comments, questions, concerns about that? So that's squared away.
Put that on your calendars (mumbled). Any other items, um, flood related items
that we want to discuss tonight? I did want to draw to your attention, and I think
it's in a handout, the "Rebuild Iowa" Commission is having some task forces
associated, and I think it would be good, and I've talked to other people about this
in the community, some representation -there are nine task forces - um, and let's
see. Marian, you put this in our pile, right?
Karr/ Yes.
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Bailey/ Okay. So, it's in the pile, um, there seemed to be some people on this Council
potentially, I mean, who could plug right into these. There's a housing, there's
economic development, I mean, all kinds of things, so I think it would be good if
we had some participation either from Council Members or from community
members.. .
Karr/ It's from Adam Gross.
Bailey/ If we're not around the table, I...I don't think our concerns are going to be heard.
So, um, please look at that. Consider if you might be interested, or other people
you know. They're looking for partisan balance, as with all, um.. .
Wright/ The application form is online and easy to fill out.
Bailey/ Yeah.
Karr/ I've attached the application form, as well.
Hayek/ You know, we might want to treat this as an ad hoc City commission, and...and
you know, bring people in who are not on Council, but have energy and time and
interest.
Bailey/ And how do you suggest we...we could proceed best with that to get people
signing up soon? `Cause I think it's really important that people are around that
table from Iowa City.
Hayek/ Oh, I....I don't...how did we get other...
Karr/ We can put something up on the web site. We could coordinate it through my
office, and...and just handle it in that fashion if you'd like.
Bailey/ And then if you know of people in the community you think would be good, once
again, I was talking with somebody today, emphasizing that they were looking for
partisan balance as well, which can sometimes be a challenge in our area, and uh,
so, please encourage people to apply. All right. Okay. Anything else?
Lombardo/ I have just a couple, uh, from the requests that were made at prior, um, work
session, there was some discussion about wanting an update or discussion about
the treatment of a condominium. Is that something that, in light of what we
discussed, we really need to address tonight? Or not?
Bailey/ You mean the treatment of the Idyllwild.. .
Dilkes/ I can just give you a little...what I understand, um, in looking at the Declaration
of Condominium as with most declaration...condominium regimes, the owners
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are the...each owner owns their unit plus undivided interest in the common
elements. Um, in talking with FEMA, they would require a, uh,, statement of
voluntary participation by every unit owner, and it's my read on it that we would
in any kind of buyout of the entire, um, property, we would need a deed from
each unit owner, um, I did talk to the Association's attorney about that and...to
see if there was anything he knew that I didn't that would change his view of that,
and he pretty much confirmed that that would be the case.
Bailey/ And then for rental units, you talked once about if it's a rental, somebody said
something about relocation costs?
Dilkes/ Well, it would...it would be...that would be a potential issue if there was a tenant
in there at the time, but for purposes of the sale, it would be the owner of the unit.
Bailey/ Okay. Good.
Lombardo/ Um, and second item, uh, you had request damage estimates and I've got a
figure on, uh, costs incurred to date, and this is far from being complete, but it's
what we have documented thus far. Um, and we have estimated about $830,000
in direct costs associated with flood mitigation and...and all of the other various
categories. Once we get a good estimate on specific damage to, um, municipal
structures, we'll update and modify this list to give you a lot more detail, but
that...that gives you some indication of just direct costs that we've incurred to
date, um, over time and the like. Um, demolition, other ancillary costs, uh, were
included on that spreadsheet, but it's estimated at about $13,000 average per
house, um, and then if there's other, depending on the size of the house certainly,
and then, um, other environmental, um, test that may or may not have to be done
should be added into that, but it adds, um, it's about $1.5 million. There are about
four homes in the 100-year flood plain in a similar figure to homes in the 500-
year flood plain, and those are really loose numbers right now.
Bailey/ And we can apply for that as part of our public assistance?
Lombardo/ That would, that could be included in the cost for the buyout program. Um,
potential costs for maintaining open space, um, again it depends on what, how
you want to preserve that open space, but if it's...if it's grass or other types of
grounds that we would have to provide upkeep to, uh, we estimate about $1,500
per acre, uh, labor and materials, up or down depending on what we put there.
Um, and then whether trails or natural grasslands are allowable in an open space,
and um, Eleanor handed out, uh, some documentation, um, essentially we can, but
with limits and it can't be a paved surface is the broad indicator.
Dilkes/ Yeah, there's...I gave you, there's a pretty handy list of allowable uses and uses
that generally aren't allowable in open space areas, um, and that's attached to my
memo. Trail, bike and walking paths are generally allowable uses, but they do
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encourage the use ofnon-paving, non-paved surfaces, such as grass, hard-packed
earth, and graded gravel.
Bailey/ Okay.
Lombardo/ That's all I have.
Bailey/ Thanks. Anything else for the discussion?
Hayek/ Um, I have one quick question. Did you give a list of capitol items?
Lombardo/ Yeah, in our CIl' meeting it's something we're going to be discussing next
week is really how, to what extent do we feel we have to revisit our CIP program.
There are a lot of things that are slated to be done and in light of this flood event,
do we need to go back and modify that list, and we're going to be discussing that
at length, um, I asked staff to conceptualize, uh, projects that in light of this flood
event would provide some level of flood mitigation or...or, um, be in direct
response to damage and the like, and so there's a list of at least the projects that
we can think of right now, and uh, we funneled that on as potential consideration
for our federal delegation, if they're going to be considering making additional
appropriations.
Hayek/ And as I understand it, there's some supplemental bill in the works in
Washington. Could any of these be...pushed on to that, and are we doing that?
Lombardo/ I would...they can, and I would hope that we would, um, advocate for those
projects.
Bailey/ And you've communicated with Grassley...they have this information.
Lombardo/ They have that information, and um, we're discussing afollow-up call to
discuss perhaps in greater length what the projects mean and why they're
important, and just answer any questions that they may have.
Hayek/ Thanks.
Bailey/ Okay. Shall we break unti17:00.
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