HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-08-11 TranscriptionAugust 11, 2008 Special City Council Work Session Page 1
August 11, 2008 Special City Council Work Session 5:30 P.M.
Council Present: Bailey, Champion, Correia, Hayek, O'Donnell, Wilburn, Wright
Staff: Karr, Helling, Dilkes, Lombardo, Davidson, Hightshoe, Long, Morris,
Jensen, Trueblood, O'Brien, Knoche, Morck, O'Malley, Ford
(Recorder problems at front end of meeting)
Council Appointments:
Outdoor Service Areas Near Residential Zones (Blackstone's) (IP2 of 8/7 Info Pkt):
(Recording started at this point of meeting)
Dilkes/ ...once that area is licensed, under the State Code - receives a liquor license
under the State Code - I don't believe that we can limit the hours that alcohol is
served. You could limit...you might be able to limit the hours of the service
area...nobody goes outside after a certain time.
Correia/ Because that's what we do essentially with our outdoor cafe.
Karr/ That's on your property. You're the owner.
Correia/ No, no, I understand that, but I'm just saying that that's what we do and so.. .
Karr/ We have not done that with private property to date. We do that with our property.
O'Donnell/ Could we make an exception, based on percentage of, um, food versus
alcohol? (mumbled) Like if it's 70 to 80% food?
Bailey/ That doesn't change the noise consideration. I mean.. .
O'Donnell/ But I think a restaurant is certainly less noise than a...than a bar.
Wright/ I don't know. An outdoor service area can get pretty loud.
Dilkes/ You know, I think you probably could. I think those kind of provisions are
really, particularly when we're only talking about a few situations, are really hard
to enforce and deal with. I....but, but that might have possibilities.
Davidson/ The regulation, because it is unique to alcohol serving areas is obviously
predicated on the notion that when alcohol's involved the volume goes up.
mean, that's...that's what it's predicated on.
Bailey/ Questions?
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Hayek/ And in this particular case, if we were to, uh, reduce the buffer zone citywide, but
enough so that this applicant could have his outdoor seating area, it'd be 30 feet as
opposed 100 feet?
Davidson/ No, no. You could...you could make it as, if you made it down to 30 feet and
left it at 30 feet, Blackstone's could...
Hayek/ That's what I'm saying - it would have to go down to 30 feet so Blackstone's
could...could get through the...the requirement.
Davidson/ Right. It's basically the width of the street and the right-of--way that's there.
Correia/ Are you saying that we could include in an ordinance a time restriction?
Dilkes/ I'm saying you could include a time restriction on the operation of the outdoor
area at all.
Correia/ That would be in the ordinance?
Dilkes/ Yes.
Correia/ Right.
Wright/ We could, in other words, we could specify what time they have to shut down
their outdoor service area. Is that correct?
Bailey/ But that does make an assumption that...how you use your resident...how you
use your residential area or how you use your home is predicated on your...you
have traditional hours. And...and I'm not sure that that's...
Davidson/ Are you suggesting, Amy, just so I'm clear that for example where you had an
outdoor service area that was within a hundred feet of a residential area, they
could only operate until 10:00?
Correia/ Right, and I'm wondering if that's a possibility. That's what I'm asking right
now.
Dilkes/ That is a possibility. You could not do it...you can only serve alcohol until 10:00
and it can operate beyond that. It would have to be closing down the whole thing
at 10:00.
Correia/ Right, but currently they can have an outdoor cafe, serving as late as they want.
Davidson/ They have an outdoor cafe.
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Correia/ I know, but I'm just saying...they can and they do have an outdoor cafe.
Bailey/ But it's not compliant.
Karr/ Are you saying they being Blackstone, so they in general?
Correia/ No, they Blackstone.
Karr/ Blackstone's does not have an outdoor service area.
Correia/ They have outdoor seating.
Davidson/ Yes.
Correia/ And that's...
Karr/ They have not...it has not been inspected nor approved by the City.
Bailey/ That's what this says.
Wright/ I didn't observe any outdoor seating area the last time I was there.
Dilkes/ It's not...it's not a licensed place.
Karr/ Outside.
Dilkes/ Outside. That's...that's not included in the area...when you get a liquor license,
you have to define what area you're talking about, the license premises -that's
not included in the licensed premise.
Bailey/ So they can neither serve food nor alcohol in an outdoor area at this point?
Karr/ That's correct.
Bailey/ Okay.
Wilburn/ Not legally.
Bailey/ That's all I need.
O'Donnell/ Is that...
Karr/ They can serve...okay, food we don't license, but the...it has not been inspected for
occupancy outside. We don't give permission in the liquor license to serve food
only. But it has not been inspected to be used outside.
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Bailey/ LJh-huh.
Correia/ For any purpose?
Karr/ For any purpose at the present time, because if it were, we'd be back to what Jeff
had just mentioned regarding some other issues, like plumbing, because it
increases the occupancy. Those are changeable, those can be fixed, but they have
not been.
Bailey/ Is there a...any other area in this building, or on this building site...I'm not
familiar with it. I've only been there a couple time, and mostly in the winter, um,
where they could have an outdoor service area that would be far away, farther
away from the residential?
Davidson/ Yes, the...the issue with the plumbing would remain.
Bailey/ Right. I understand that.
Davidson/ But it could be...again, I have some information from the, uh, I'm just going
to read you what the Building Official gave me here.
Bailey/ Okay.
Davidson/ LTh, Blackstone's could explore adding an outdoor area on the north side of the
building, then the outdoor area would be, uh, a hundred feet from a residential
zone. Parking spaces would have to be removed to do so, but getting a special
exception to reduce parking seems more appropriate than...this was her opinion -
than amending the ordinance. LTh, they would of course still have to deal with the
bathroom fixture count problem. So, yes, they could go through a special
exception with the Board of Adjustment to reduce parking, convert that area to the
outdoor service area.
Bailey/ Do we know how much parking that would have to be reduced (mumbled) okay.
Wright/ Probably depend on how big the space they want.. .
Bailey/ Well, yeah. That seems more reasonable (both talking).
Wright/ ...appropriate option then. I just hate to open this up for the entire community.
Bailey/ I do too. Right, and...
Wright/ In addition, you know, you... a hundred foot buffer's not very much.
Bailey/ No, and you know, a time restriction makes an assumption, like I said, that it's
predicated on this sort of traditional standard that, you know, we all sleep this
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time, we all, you know, we all want quiet this time, which isn't always necessarily
the case in your home. So.. .
O'Donnell/ That's why it seems it would be more appropriate to go on the percentage of
food versus anything. And I think if you do 70%, you are...you are more a
restaurant than a...than a bar.
Bailey/ But I've still got people outside my window when I want to read, study, or
whatever.
O'Donnell/ Well, but we have said that a bar has higher noise level than a restaurant.
Wright/ We've said that?
O'Donnell/ You just said that.
Bailey/ Somebody said it.
Champion/ Alcohol (several talking)
O'Donnell/ Alcohol has a higher...(several talking, laughter)
Bailey/ Does anybody have any questions for Jeff? Um, I would like to encourage the
applicant to, what was that? A special exception for (mumbled) north side.
Wright/ ...makes more sense.
Hayek/ But we...in terms of, uh, studying the impact of going from 100 to 30 feet, the
only thing we've done is use a highlighter and mark that, those portions of the
City map where this would come into play, and we haven't done anything to look
at what the impact would actually be to going down to 30 feet, um, to my
knowledge, have we?
Bailey/ What do you mean?
Hayek/ Well, if we go from 100 to 30 feet, that could have far reaching implications that
we haven't even begun to look at. (several talking)
Wright/ ...30 foot buffer why bother at that point.
Bailey/ Yeah, that's hardly a buffer at all - that's a street. (several talking)
Hayek/ But we would have to do that to accommodate this particular business.
Bailey/ Yeah, that's...that's...
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Wright/ I really don't think what we have now is particularly difficult to work around.
Correia/ So does our...does the current ordinance around our outdoor service areas, is
that within the zoning codes, so when somebody's doing...can that, I mean, I just
wonder if some of...we make it difficult for people more places to go to find
information if it's not...if somebody is putting in a restaurant, they should have
all of the information so that they know all of those things.
Karr/ They've been provided that when they, if they come for a liquor license, they're
provided that at the time if they indicate it.
Correia/ Right, but at that point they've already built their establishment if
they're...generally, when they're applying for a liquor license, have they already
planned it (mumbled)
Karr/ Not...not generally...not generally. A lot of times it'll go hand-in-hand.
Bailey/ Well, if I'm reading this timeline correctly, it seems that part of the gap was that
there was no outdoor service area indicated on the plans, and that's where it
would have been...is that typically where it's caught, about how...
Karr/ Well, it's typically there or in the Building Department when they inspect it for
building permits. They'll...because when it's dealing with occupancy, it also
then trips over the plumbing and the parking.
Bailey/ Right.
Karr/ So if it would have been indicated at that time, and as the timeline would show, um,
then...then it would be caught there, as well as several steps along the way.
Bailey/ So if we...if somebody in Building would have had some indication, this
plumbing issue wouldn't be an issue, um, because they would have figured the
capacity of this outdoor service area. Okay.
Hayek/ Well, Amy, your point's well taken though that if there's something we can do at
the very beginning when they apply for a building permit, to make sure that this
kind of information is front and center, um...
Correia/ I feel like when they first opened I saw the area where, oh, there's going to be
outdoor seating. So I mean I'm a little bit confused that we didn't see when we
went.. .
Karr/ We saw it was a landing, but that's what, I mean, we didn't...
Bailey/ How much handholding do you do, I guess is the question.
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Correia/ I don't know if that's handholding, if it's just making sure that all the pertinent
information is in one place when, um, a business is starting to do this type of
planning, and we all know that we can change plans and just to try and prevent
this type of backtracking, it just seems like it's not that difficult to make sure that
we can think ahead and get all this information to somebody when they're
planning this type of business, and then in a planned development that we really
want to help support and be successful, um, on this side of town.
Bailey/ Okay. So, we can do that. I mean, we can...we can see if there's a checklist. I
mean, we don't know that this wasn't necessarily mentioned. I mean, we don't
have that information, but we can...we can do that. What else do you want to do
about this issue?
Champion/ Well, I wonder if we could talk...we could have the owner talk to us about
moving that area to (several talking) of the building?
Bailey/ Um...maybe a public comment at the formal meeting?
Champion/ Either way (both talking) close this out. Um, also, I think it's something to
think about if it's not possible to do the other to set a time limit on the service area
and give it a temporary...well, I don't know if it'd be temporary...renewable
every year (mumbled) So maybe (mumbled and noise on mic)
Wright/ So you're saying approve it temporarily tonight?
Champion/ No, well, I mean, we should...I want to hear from Brian about moving
this...this outdoor area. Because that would take care of the whole thing about
making (mumbled)
Bailey/ Brian, I didn't see you there. Why don't you...this is unusual, but let's just
dispense with this now by having you speak to this...
Flynn/ What can I answer for you?
Bailey/ Um, we're interested in your ability to move this to the north...is that what your
question was? The north side of your building, by getting a special exception.
Flynn/ In order to move it to the north side of the building? Is that right? (several
responding) Yeah, the north side of the building is actually occupied by other
businesses now. There's no way to...there's no way to move it. And the other
thing is, I believe the neighborhood association was very much against anything
other than the parking lot. There was a lot of argument already about signage in
that area, uh, from across the street, so we just kind of left everything there, as far
as the neighborhood association on the other side of the street from Scott
Boulevard. Uh, they actually regulated, I believe what the original developers,
with Three Bulls, there was a lot of discrepancy as far as what you could even put
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up for a sign, because they didn't want to see a bunch of neon things. Nothing
that was backlit, no box signs, um, that's why all the signs out there are all
gooseneck-lit signs that have all the light comes down. Um, as far as moving it to
the north side, there's just, first of all there's not enough room, and it would
eliminate, I mean, a lot of parking. There would be no, I mean, we would lose the
two handicap spots that are actually over there, which is unfortunately has been
another complaint that we've had out there that we're trying to remedy at this
point in time.
Bailey/ Okay. Any other questions for Brian? Thank you. So?
Hayek/ It's an unfortunate situation, you know. Somebody...there was some
misunderstanding at some point, but to rectify it now would require a change, uh,
that we haven't yet studied and, um, could have far-reaching implications. It's a
bad situation.
Wilburn/ Well, the notion that, uh, a bar or restaurant in, uh, close proximity to a
residential area, uh, and we've seen that in other surrounding communities where
there've been issues with noise and complaints, so...
Correial So, if I can just clarify...
Wilburn/ ...that's not projecting anything, uh, against this owner or business. I mean, it's
just, you see it, I mean...
Wright/ It's a terrific business.
Bailey/ Amy?
Correia/ I want to clarify -once their current outdoor seating is inspected and the whole
issue with the bathrooms or plumbing is figured out, they can have outdoor
seating and people can eat, they just can't have alcohol. Is that correct?
Karr/ Well, first of all, they do not have an outdoor area now. So given the premise that
if they were to apply for one, the application right now...they're not permitted
because of the zoning. We do not give permits, per se, for restaurants on private
property to eat outside. So if you're talking about eating only, it would not...it
would be an Inspection and Housing Department decision, given that the only
problem would be plumbing, and they would add the additional, if...again, if that
is the only problem, and they would make that adjustment, I would see no reason
that they would not be allowed to eat out there only and have no alcoholic
beverages, providing it passes the other Fire and Building Codes. Okay?
Correia/ So that's my question.
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Karr/ So, yeah, but that would not be before you because you do not...you do not
approve those. It would be simply a Building and Fire Code inspection.
Bailey/ So that's another alternative they could pursue if they addressed any of these
other...the plumbing.
Karr/ Yes, always that was an option.
Bailey/ Okay. Other...all right. I sense an unwillingness to change the ordinance, so we
will move on to the next work session item. Okay.
Champion/ Well, did we actually (mumbled). I'm willing to change it.
Hayek/ I'm willing to look at changing it, but I don't have any information before me as
to what would happen if we did.
Bailey/ I'm not willing (several talking)...I think it's...I'm not willing to change it.
I...it's just too close. I mean, that's the only information that I have, is that 30
feet is about a street width, and that's enough for me, that that's really close. And
it would, I mean, it would be throughout the community, and I think our buffer is
modest as it is.
Wilburn/ And given the...uh, potential for concern. I know there's consequences for
whether you do or don't do this, whether you want to, uh, live with and continue
to address those consequences, and uh, I cited an example from other
communities, and we've already heard, uh, from the owner that, uh, at a minimum
there's a neighborhood...or there's an association that is paying attention to what
happens with this site so that, uh, concern won't, uh, go away.
Bailey/ And I do, um, like what Amy mentioned is making sure that as people plan these,
as we do neighborhood commercial like this, and want more outdoor service
areas, I think you're right, I think we have to make sure that there's some kind of
check-in or check list to make sure that these are clearly...are...it's understood.
But...
Karr/ So are there four? I...I...
Bailey/ I haven't gotten done counting.
O'Donnell/ I'm willing to look at a change.
Hayek/ I'll look at anything, you know. I'll look at it.
Correia/ I mean, I would look at it.
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Bailey/ So what do you want to see, if you're looking at anything? Or, let's give some
more specific direction to staff.
Correia/ And so...can you flip to your map where you highlighted because I didn't
highlight things on mine (laughter and several talking) So, these are all the areas
where potentially we have the zoning abutting residences? I'm not sure how we
would look at that. Would we look at how many restaurants (mumbled)
Davidson/ Yeah, the maps that we provided, and Amy...I'm just making sure I can do
this accurately here, commercial zones that allow eating and drinking
establishments, uh, so in other words, those are all the commercial zones. It's not
just CC-2 where...where Blackstone's is located, but all the commercial zones
(both talking) that are adjacent to residential areas, where the 100-foot buffer
would come into effect.
Correia/ Okay.
Bailey/ So...
Davidson/ And basically, you know, having discussed this pretty extensively with joint
staff and also including the Police Department, I'm not sure there's a lot of
additional research for us to do here. If there's a majority of Council that would
like to reduce the buffer, I mean, that's basically what we're recommending to
you to accomplish accommodating this business.
Lombardo/ If I...but, further that thought though, would this be a recommendation had it
come through, uh, your departments or through Planning and Zoning that you
would be making to City Council?
Davidson/ Well, we discussed it at the joint staff committee, which includes Planning,
Housing, Fire, Legal or City Attorney's office, who else is in on that? Oh,
Engineering, Public Works, and then also brought in Police Department and
our...our recommendation was to leave it the same.
Bailey/ So, do the four of you want to see an ordinance that reduces the buffer to 30 feet,
because that would be the direction we would go with this.
Hayek/ No. I...I don't want to see that. I...I...we do have some, I mean, staff has
looked at this to some extent, but where it would really matter for...for us up here
is to understand what a 30-foot buffer could potentially mean in terms of
businesses being able to locate with outdoor seating areas 30 feet away from
adjacent residential, and what would that look like? Um, and if we...
Correia/ And I guess, I mean, we need to specify though that we're talking about outdoor
seating areas that have a liquor license.
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Bailey/ Service areas.
Correia/ Right...I mean, it's still seating. I think it's lots of semantics, but I think a
restaurant in any of the current areas could have an outdoor seating area, but our
ordinance would not allow the...
Champion/ Serving of alcohol.
Correia/ ...serving alcohol in that area.
Champion/ That seems like a fine line to me.
Wright/ What 30 feet looks like is basically the length of two not very big cars.
Davidson/ It's a car and a half. We use 20 feet for a car. Um, I think the point that's
been made is, you know, 30 feet is not much of a buffer. I don't think a
distinction between 20 feet and 40 feet, um, is really going to be that much of a
distinction. You know, what we found when we researched other codes in other
cities was that 100 feet was down at the liberal end of it, and that frequently they
range from 200 to 1,000. So, you know, it's an arbitrary thing, I mean, it's
perfectly appropriate for you all to make a decision as a, you know, as a political
body.
Hayek/ Well, 30 feet is probably the distance from me to the back of the room.
Wright/ Not even that.
Davidson/ Not even that.
Bailey/ That's bigger.
Hayek/ It's more than that?
Wright/ Probably more like 50.
Hayek/ Anybody have a tape measure? Well, if it's anything comp...if it's...if that's
essentially the distance, it...you know, I doubt we're going to get a majority of
people who want 30 feet to be our distance, and if that's what it takes to allow this
particular business to move forward, um, and if we're not looking at this for any
reason other than this particular business, I would, you know, is it a good use of
time?
Bailey/ So, you're among the four who said that they would be interested in looking at
something. What we would be looking at is an ordinance that would reduce it to
30 feet. Are you still interested in looking at something?
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Hayek/ I'm willing to look at ordinances that shorten the distance. I'm not saying 30 is
where I would draw the line in the sand or not. (both talking) And...and what
I'm also, further saying is that for it to be of help to them it would have to be 30.
Champion/ Right.
Bailey/ Right.
Hayek/ And I don't know what I would say. I mean, that's a pretty small distance, but I
don't know what I would say.
Champion/ It is a small distance. It's...it's hard, I mean, I can understand why they want
outdoor seating and everybody loves it, and uh, trying to find a way to do it, but I
don't know if I can put a bar 30 feet from somebody's house.
Bailey/ And then potentially that's what we're going to direct staff to do, is bring us an
ordinance that could put a service area 30 feet to accommodate this situation.
Thirty feet from somebody's residence. So, I just need to know, or staff just
needs to know if...if they write up this ordinance or not, or change our ordinance.
Champion/ If I were willing to do it, I would put a timeline on it.
Wright/ But what about a distance?
Champion/ I just don't like making this decision.
Wright/ That's (laughter)
Bailey/ That's apparent!
Wright/ ...both wider than 30 feet.
Champion/ They are. My porch is actually 30 feet. That's really close. That's
(mumbled) That's my front porch.
Bailey/ Right. I know. You have a big front porch.
Champion/ I drink wine on my front porch (mumbled and several talking) I, you know,
I'm sorry. I don't think I can support my front porch...as a buffer...to a
commercial establishment that's serving alcohol. It doesn't seem fair to my
neighbors. I have to rescind my (noise on mic)
Bailey/ Okay. Anybody else changing around here?
O'Donnell/ Well, that's it (several talking)
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Champion/ Yeah, 30 feet - I'm sorry. It's just not (several talking)
Bailey/ Can we get some information from Housing to make sure that, um, there's a
checklist or something that...
Karr/ We do the check...we...we do the checklist for outdoor liquor. Do you want to
know if there's another one for building?
Bailey/ Well, I think Amy's concern was, if you're thinking of serving liquor outdoors
and you're doing your building permit now, you might want to think about this.
Correia/ Yeah, I think we should just try and assume it's a possibility. Someone's putting
in a restaurant -they might plan through their design phase to add outdoor service
area.. .
Karr/ They're putting in a restaurant and they do say liquor, inspection sends them to us
and then we do have a checklist.
Lombardo/ That flies somewhat in the face though of the changes and all that we
discussed through the changes with, uh, the recent, um, Planning and Zoning
processes and the subdivision ordinance and all that. Part of the challenge with
accepting and moving plans through are for us to know specifically what they're
proposing so that we can respond and provide guidelines for that, and so
anticipating or second guessing about what they may want to do, is really up to
the applicant, it's incumbent upon them to specify what they want to accomplish
in their site, and then we tell them based on our codes what...what they're able to
do or not do.
Bailey/ I think Marian did answer it though. If they go to Building and say it's a
restaurant, we'll serve alcohol, they're talking to you and you're outlining the
ordinance, the local and state ordinance or rules that apply to alcohol service,
including this one. I think it's taken care of.
Lombardo/ Okay.
Recommendations From Task Force on Violence Against Women (IP3 of 8/7 Info
Pkt
Bailey/ Okay. Um, Task Force on Violence Against Women. We, um, had a
presentation of this some months back, but discussing...we haven't had an
opportunity to discuss as Council the recommendations in this, so, um, Amy, did
you want to, because you were the liaison for this, did you want to just kick us off
here?
Correia/ Yeah, I just want to thank...there are a few members of the Task Force here with
us this evening, so (mumbled) for being (noise on mic). Um, I mean, we don't
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have, I know we don't have a lot of time because our work session schedule, if we
went from pages 4 on...4 through 8 is where there are the specific
recommendations in the different areas that we looked at. We looked at services,
transportation, neighborhood watch, police response, lighting, and coordination of
public education, and then each of those areas you can pull out specific
recommendations that the Task Force made towards different entities, whether it's
the City, the University, Student Government, School District, community at
large, other, um, other entities.
Bailey/ So, do you want to start on page 5 where the City recommendations start for, um,
the...I don't know what category we're in.
Correia/ Sure, I mean, I think...
Bailey/ Services.
Correia/ ...yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple of things...we can go through all the
recommendations one by one, or we could identify that we would like different
City departments to take a look at the recommendations and come back to us
with, we can do this; this is what it will take or if you want us to do this, this is
what it will take -that sort of a thing, I mean, I don't know.. .
Bailey/ Well, I thought we'd start with those recommendations that are directed
specifically at the City and see if there is interest in...on the part of Council in
having staff pursue those. And I think our...in Services, our...the two
recommendations that apply to us start on...at the top of page 5, with links to
resources and, um, increased local funding support. Does everybody have...okay.
Hayek/ Well, I'm...I'm...I think this is an excellent report and I plan to support as much
as we can support, um, but I think Amy's idea is a good one, that in lieu of going
through each and every one of those and looking for consensus and then adding it
to a list. Maybe we should provide everything that applies to the City to staff to
look at and give us a more comprehensive sense of what we can do and what it
will cost.
Bailey/ Oh, okay. So, looking at services, transportation there are quite a few. One of
the comments that I would have in coordination of public education, that's on
page 8, many of these, um, and perhaps we want staff to look at it, but on my first,
second, and third reading of this, many of these, I don't think, are the purview of
us. I think that there are other organizations that should be taking the lead, and
perhaps we're partners there, and perhaps that's what staff would come up with,
but I'm not sure that I'm even interested in having staff look at this when I believe
that we play a partnership...when the role of the City is to play a partnership role,
um, with some of these, um.. .
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Correia/ But I think that's where I would like to hear from staff on how, you know, how
staff feels like they...how the City would partner. Do we...you know, is there
that staff...we can partner, this is what we can do. We have, you know, this
capacity; we don't have that capacity; we don't think...
Bailey/ I guess from a policy perspective what I'm saying specifically, and others chime
in please, um, I'm saying specifically that I don't believe that we are the lead role
in this from a policy perspect...in some of these, from a policy perspective. I
mean, I don't believe necessarily that an ad campaign about nonviolence
necessarily should start with the City. From a policy and resources perspective.
That's just...
Correia/ The City has a lot to gain if you decrease violence in the city.
Bailey/ Absolutely, I'm not arguing with that. I'm just saying first and foremost from my
perspective that's not our first lead role. I don't know what others think.
Correia/ Well, and I think the way it's written it's not that we would lead it...is that we
would work with others to do...
Wilburn/ Well, I think the, excuse me for interrupting. I think the possibility, um, maybe
just, uh, for our own awareness is to what some of those contributions of the City
currently are, um, at a minimum. For example, um, I had participated in an ad
campaign, uh, that took nothing but my time, but for the awareness of Council or
anyone who wouldn't know, at least, um, we would have that acknowledgement
from the City, an awareness from the Council at the policy level, and awareness
for the public that these are some things that the Council, uh, is supporting, efforts
that the Council is supporting, but not necessarily fiscally but, um, time-wise,
staff-wise, resource, that type of thing.
Correia/ Absolutely! That's a great example.
Bailey/ Other thoughts?
Wright/ I can see some linkages, with the City and some of these other (mumbled)
necessarily places where we have to take the lead role, um, but I can see some
areas where we might be supportive.
Bailey/ Did you do an evaluation of what the City is currently doing?
Correia/ We did that when we did the strengths and gaps. I mean, we had a lot of City
representatives. I mean, overlook the...your participation in that, I mean, that had
been about a year and a half previous, but that should be in there, but...we tried to
do as much of that as possible.
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Bailey/ So is...other ideas? Is this how you want to proceed, is, um, direct staff to give
us some ideas of how they could address some of these recommendations and go
from there?
O'Donnell/ I think that's the only way to go.
Hayek/ I think that's most efficient. I mean, some of these suggested, uh, items are... are
probably low cost and easy to do -links to web sites on the City web site and
things like that -but many of the others are funding based -transportation
funding, um, police funding, lighting and infrastructure funding, and those are
things that will be hard for us to talk about without some sort of input from staff.
Bailey/ We also have to look at the other resources it would take too, is human resources,
and...and determining how we want to, how we want, you know, how it's best for
staff to spend their time. Connie, did you have.. .
Champion/ Well, L ..when I look at this I think, you know, we can't solve this problem,
but I'm certainly willing to look at ways that we can help, and when I read
through these I think one of the most important things is lighting so you can see
what's around you. And yet that's probably one of the most expensive things to
tackle.
Bailey/ (several talking) ...also controversial.
Champion/ And also controversial if you're into neighborhoods. Um, we do have a lot of
dark sidewalks. We really do, and um, education I...is a big part of this. I mean,
where people are walking at night and why are they out walking and why are they
walking alone, and um, education about things you can do so you don't have to do
those things.
Correia/ And a lot, I mean, a lot of that is happening, but I think that there is an
awareness of that in the Task Force, and so the idea was how to, um,
contribute...you know, what's the City's role. So the City has...we do lighting.
That's what, you know, we provide lighting. How could we address some of the
pitfalls in lighting, or that sort of thing, understanding that some of those other
things are occurring -the community education, the risk reduction, um, knowing
that this is just one piece of trying to respond.
Champion/ And L ..didn't read the article in the paper this morning because I had to leave
early, but was the University actually thinking of cutting down on Cambus?
Would that be night buses or, does anybody know, did they read that article?
Wright/ Oh, cutting back on Cambus operations?
Davidson/ It's increasing the headways on all their routes, buses wouldn't come as often,
but they're not cutting service in any...in any area. I did want to remind Council
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that in this year's budget you did establish beginning in FY10 the Neighborhood
Street Lighting Program, so you have taken one initiative already to increase
neighborhood street lighting.
Champion/ Because I think that's one of the most important things that we can do as a
city, physically to help prevent some of these attacks on people, because when
you walk around the town at night, there are a lot of really dark sidewalks, and are
a lot of sidewalks that aren't complete too. So, I think that's something I'm
totally willing to look at. I think they'd be very helpful.
Bailey/ Mike, did you have any comments?
O'Donnell/ No, I think Connie addressed it real well.
Bailey/ Okay, any other comments? So, Michael, could we have staff just look at these
and bring back...
Lombardo/ We'll discuss this in staff on Wednesday, and see how much time we think
it'll take for us to do a comprehensive review of this and provide you some
feedback on, um, what measures we might be able to take or some of the level of
detail that you've discussed.
Bailey/ And, to...to go on Ross' comment, if there are activities that are occurring. I
know some of these are mentioned in strengths, but perhaps there are things
that...that are already occurring that we probably should be aware of, as well.
Wilburn/ And, I don't know...this is getting back at something that, uh, Matt had
indicated. I don't know if this, this may or may not...I don't know if this'll be too
much work or not, but um, and uh, Michael, I'm not sure if you had thought how
you want to present our Capital Improvement, um, I'm sure you're gathering your
thoughts in terms of, uh, the budget and any changes to format, but uh, in the past
we've gotten little memos about other sources of funding. Might it be possible
to...to, uh, either visually or just to get a reminder as we go through Capital
Improvement that this...this particular item from, uh, in our Capital Improvement
budget was mentioned, or might fulfill, a, uh, a gap within this report. Do you
know what I mean? Does that make sense to folks? So that way at budget time,
it's just (several talking)
Lombardo/ I think, you know, there are going to be a lot of considerations when we
revisit CIP. I mean, we're looking currently at what's in there, and planning to
come back to you long before next year's CIP to discuss projects that are in there
and in light of flooding, you know, what we need to reprioritize and do, and
certainly I think during that discussion you can raise some of these same
questions and we can talk about how they relate to other programs, but um, I...I
think.. .
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Wilburn/ And even if that's too much, or too much stuff within the booklet, at least
maybe it'll be a good reminder for us just to get this out at...at that time, as we
make those decisions.
Lombardo/ This report? We can remind you of that, sure.
Champion/ The other point I'd like to make is, even though I don't think a lot of this is
our responsibility, uh, some of it is, and the other thing is, it's not just the
University's responsibility because not all people being attacked in this town are
University students. I think it's important to know that we also have people in
town who walk who are not students at the University. And that some of that is
our responsibility.
Bailey/ LTh-huh. Well, I think just as we saw in flood response and everything, if
everybody's doing their bit, you know, using their resources to...to their greatest
capacity and not trying to do anything more or beyond what they can do, and
partnering up well, I think we'll have a more comprehensive response to this
issue, and so if staff can bring us back that, I think that would be terrific. Any
other comments? Okay. So that's the segway into flood discussion. So, flood
mitigation buyout, Notice of Interest.
Flood Mitigation Buyouts -Notice of Interest (NOI):
Davidson/ At your, uh, last discussion of the flood buyout program, uh, we all decided
that some information that would be helpful in terms of you making your final
decisions about us filing the Notice of Interest -remember that's the...that's the
next thing we need to do to really set in motion the, um, the parameters of the
FEMA buyout program, is that we would attempt to solicit from the 245
residences which were directly impacted, uh, by the flood event, uh, their interest
in the program, and we have done that and hopefully you, and everyone in the
audience that's interested has a copy of the diagram that's color-coded, uh, that,
uh, Steve and his staff spent a great deal of time the last couple of weeks
collecting information, and we...we appreciate everyone taking the time, uh,
to...to give us the information to provide to you this evening. Um, out of 245
residences we have a total of 187 who have indicated they wish to, uh, proceed
with, or they are interested in having their...their property purchased, uh, 30
residences indicated "no." There were seven that actually provided us with a new
category that we hadn't offered, but that's...they were undecided. Uh, and then
we had a total of 21 that we did not receive responses for, so I think we have a lot
of good information here with which to proceed. Um, I think it's important for
everyone to...to remember that up until the...the time when property is actually
purchased, any property owner has the opportunity to back out of the program.
So if they're out of that 187 that said "yes," they don't all have to participate
ultimately. Of the 30 that said "no," they could decide later that they did, uh,
wish to, in other words, we still have flexibility in terms of...of what people want
to do, but...but this is intended to provide you with both information in terms of
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the total numbers we're talking about here, uh, as well as the pattern, and
hopefully you can see that from the diagrams that are provided. I mean, I think
there are some clear patterns, uh, that...that come out here with respect to, uh,
those most severely inundated and again, this is a generalization, but those most
severely inundated being most interested in the property, um, there are some areas
on here - I believe the top of Granada Court, as well as the properties directly
along, um, Park Road, the two properties on the corner there that were not
impacted at all by flood waters, but they were impacted clearly in terms of having
to be evacuated and/or sewer backups and that sort of thing. So...um, we're
obviously here to answer any questions that you have. There's been a great deal
of information, um, circulated. The couple of things that I think we want to
discuss specifically tonight is any final direction you want to give us on which
properties you would like to have filed, uh, with the Notice of Interest, and...and
we are perfectly prepared to take all 245 properties and submit the Notice of
Interest for those properties, if that is your desire, um, again, doing so, even with
the properties where they have indicated they are not interested in being bought
out, nobody is committed to a buyout at this point. It would be simply seeing the
extent of the access to the program that we would have. Um, clearly your
decision, or your direction to us on that to the extent that you wish to apply that
Notice of Interest, then has an impact on the City's exposure with local match.
Um, and if you were to suggest that all 245, uh, properties should be submitted in
the Notice of Interest, um, and...and we were to receive funding, and...and we've
all been through the discussions. We have no idea how much money we're going
to have available statewide versus demand, but hypothetically, if we were to
receive funding for a11245 properties, the local match exposure for the City at
15% would be about $9 million. So clearly that is something that needs to be
discussed in terms of what the options are. And we have many options, uh,
there's always the possibility, very slim chance I think, that the State could offer
more than the 10%. That has been done in other states, uh, we have not received
any indication of that. In fact, we haven't even received, you know,
any...anything in certain that the State's going to come up with 10%, but
hopefully they will. Um, there is apparently the option for property owners to
provide the 15%, and so that's something that you have as an option in your
decision making as well. We would really appreciate as much direction as you
can give us this evening. We have four weeks, um, to get the Notice of Interest
prepared. There are ten pieces of information that have to be prepared for each
property, so hypothetically we have 2,440 pieces of information that we need to
prepare, and so we would like to be able to get started as soon as possible.
Champion/ That's an easy decision for me. I would like to send them all, but I would like
to send them all with the understanding that the City would not provide the 15%.
It would be provided by the homeowners.
Correia/ I'm not willing to say that at this time at all. I mean, I think we send it in, and
we, I mean, there are a lot of unknowns, a lot of both federal and state, um,
matters that have yet to be determined, um, I don't know if I would agree to that
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necessarily since I don't know if all the homeowners could afford to give up the
total, the assessed or appraised or whatever value we're going to be using. So, I
think we should submit them all, as well, and, um, there's plenty of time later to
figure out the match.
Hayek/ Couple questions...my recollection is that we were asked to provide the
Council's position on the 15% in connection with the NOI. Is that right, or can
we not decide that?
Davidson/ You may not decide that.
Hayek/ Okay, so we don't have to...we don't take a position on that...okay.
Davidson/ Not for the Notice of Interest.
Hayek/ Second question is, um, is there any portion of the NOI that requires the City to
confirm interest on the part of the property owner, whose property's on the list?
Davidson/ Well, the NOI as you remember, the City is the applicant -not the individual
property owners.
Hayek/ Right.
Davidson/ That's been beat into us. The City is the applicant, uh, and so what you're
indicating, Matt, is the City's interest in this property being acquired.
Hayek/ Okay. So the fact that somebody says, `I do not want to be bought out,' does not
have to play into our placement of that property.. .
Davidson/ I guess what you would be saying is that hypothetically the City is still
interested in having that property bought out, if the property owner is willing to
have that done.
Lombardo/ I think one of the fundamental questions you have to ask is, is it your
intention, uh, to return these neighborhoods to flood plain, and...and whatever we
maybe able to do or not do as a result of using specific funds, that'll be part of the
discussion, but as a Council, as a body, if you envision this becoming flood plain,
I think is the first and foremost, uh, the first question you have to ask, um, do you
want to entertain any consideration for future redevelopment, or are you certain in
your own mind that...that flood plain is really what you're after here.
Davidson/ If there is any portion of this area, just to follow up with what the City
Manager was saying, if there's any portion of this area that you do not envision
being...being flood plain property, that...or on the other hand, that you envision
being redeveloped and remain on the property tax rolls as developed property,
then you should not indicate your interest in the buyout program.
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Bailey/ So if we wanted to do mitigation of properties or, um, just to randomly
take...there are people on Granada Court who are interested in being bought out,
but if we saw that as...with the possibility of putting fill in and raising those
houses and doing redevelopment then they should not be on the list, or those
addresses should not be on the list. Is that correct?
Davidson/ And remember, there's no commitment at this point. It's just interest.
Dilkes/ That's assuming you can answer that question before September 12th. If you
can't, then you need to include them all.
Bailey/ Right, and I think it's a very valid question though because we start stepping
down a road. Even if the likelihood of getting all the money to do this is slim, we
are indicating to the community that this is what we are pursuing and interested in
seeing, as the City being the applicant. And I think that that is a...I think, maybe
for some it's not a distinction. For me it's a real distinction. Because if we go
down that road and money became available to buy out all this, are we all willing
to do that?
Correia/ Well, and I think that right now we're under a time crunch. We have this
application that's due, and nothing that we submit in this application binds us to
do anything. And I think it's going to be a long, my understanding, it's going to
be a long process to go from the application being submitted and knowing what
the...what they're going to give us...
Davidson/ And real quickly, the timeline for that, Amy, is we submit the Notice of
Interest on the 12th. They've indicated within two months they'll get back to us
with basically an invitation to apply to the program, and...and presumably to
what extent they want us to apply. That's after they've gauged the demand for the
program on a statewide basis versus the money that's available. Now I think the
longer process then starts at that point, and the actual buyout of properties and
negotiations with property owners and all that, that's what takes the longer
amount of time.
Correia/ Because I could see a process happening that involves the community of
whether we (noise on mic) um, in other places that have significant impact, and
saying what do we want to see for this, if we end up saying, okay, the City's
going to buy out this section because we believe we can redevelop it. Then we
can do that. We can decide that through a planning process, that we don't
have...haven't had the time to do right now because we're consumed with getting
everything together to submit this application.
Bailey/ I understand that we can operate in a lot of different ways. This doesn't
necessarily commit, but it signals, and I think we should be very careful, um,
about what we're signaling, um, as our interest, and, you know, if people are
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willing to start down the road and say we're going to continue to talk about it,
that's one thing, but you know, what's our drop-dead date for making a decision?
When we know how much money we have? Or, you know, what are we telling
people, I guess, essentially?
Correia/ I think what we're doing is we're signaling an interest in supporting these
home...the homeowners that want to get out, and that one way of supporting
homeowners is submitting this application, and another way is through...through
a planning process if the City decides well, we don't want part of this to remain
open space, but these homeowners want to be bought out and there are things that
need to happen to make this a safer development, then the City will buy out those
properties and do something to them, similar to what Coralville is doing on
Edgewater Drive. They're not submitting FEMA application -they're buying it
out and they're going to redevelop it. And so I mean I think we have that
opportunity, um, but to know at this moment, um...
Bailey/ One never has perfect knowledge.
Correia/ Well, right, but I don't want to limit opportunity to support the homeowners at
this point.
Champion/ Well, I think Regenia makes a valid point, that a lot of this probably could be
redeveloped and be very safe, uh, but I'm not willing to make that decision now.
Bailey/ And so I guess my question is, you know, people are beginning to ask when are
we going to...I mean, so what is our...if we got all this money, we would proceed
in this manner, I guess is...if I was a homeowner I would want to know that. Is
that what you're indicating, I guess?
Champion/ No, I'm not indicating that. I think if we get...any amount of money that's
going to help us, we're going to be lucky. That's how I'm feeling about the
federal government right now. But I could be wrong! (laughter) Could be
wrong, but I mean, I think there are certain areas we probably don't want
redeveloped. That's easy to decide. I mean, I don't want anything right along the
river redeveloped. I think that's just ridiculous. But a lot of this further inland on
Normandy and Eastmoor and Manor, a lot of that could be redeveloped to a safe
level, I think. I mean, I don't know. I'm not a builder, I'm not a developer.
Hayek/ If we're talking redevelopment, we are not talking buyout. We're
talking...(several talking)
Wright/ Not a federal buyout.
Hayek/ Right, we're talking now a hundred cents on the dollar coming out of the City
budget.
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Bailey/ Or CDBG.
Champion/ Or somewhere else.
Hayek/ I mean, that's a wholly separate issue.
Champion/ Well, that's what I'm saying -not willing to make that decision now. That's
why I think I should send everything. I don't have the knowledge to make that
decision based on other facts at this point.
Wilburn/ (both talking) Oops, I'm sorry, Connie.
Champion/ No, go ahead. I'm done. I'm just rambling!
Wilburn/ Okay, my support goes towards, um, submitting a11245, um...
Champion/ ...I'm sorry.
Wilburn/ Submitting them all with the, uh, intention of the, uh, the purpose of the
program, which is to, uh, bring it back to flood plain.
Champion/ And when we look at what this costs the City, um, not only time and effort
and a tremendous amount of volunteers, but a tremendous amount of work to deal
with a flood that starts invading housing developments and business
developments. It's a lot of money!
Wright/ For my...refreshing my memory just a little bit, uh, I know there are some
guidelines that had to do with the extent of damage. By and large the rule of
thumb is that the federal buyout program is available for the properties within the
100-year. Is that correct, Jeff? Or Steve?
Davidson/ Yes. I mean, I think the...what they keep telling us is that they want to
mitigate the highest hazard first. So clearly the floodway is the highest priority.
The 100-year flood plain is the second highest, and the 500-year flood plain is the
third...third priority and that they will go in that priority order.
Wright/ Okay.
Long/ They also look at the amount of damage, versus the value of the home.
Dilkes/ And I think, um, you've got a memo from Julie Tallman tonight about properties
previously understood to be in the 100-year flood plain in Idyll...or outside the
100-year flood plain in Idyllwild, now being within the 100-year flood plain, and
I think that that is a good indication of how it is very difficult...until we take this
process through to know what the outcome ultimately is going to be.
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Davidson/ That's one of the pieces of information on the Notice of Interest, one of those
ten pieces is, are you in the 100-year flood plain or not, yes or no.
Bailey/ Are the Taft Speedway properties in the floodway, or the 100-year?
Davidson/ There is one property which touches the floodway, and they have indicated
they do not wish to be bought out. The others are in the 100-year flood plain.
Bailey/ Okay. So...I'm hearing generally to put all the addresses on.
Champion/ Well...
Bailey/ That seems to be the consensus.
Hayek/ Let me ask one more time, Michael, Eleanor, Jeff -any disadvantage to doing all
245 properties, in terms of the City's options later?
Dilkes/ We've asked that question several times, and have gotten a "no." That's the best
that I can tell you. I can't...other than the things I think that Michael has talked
about in terms of perception out there, and community relations, and those kinds
of things, which you have to assess politically. Legally, I don't think that we
constrain ourselves at all by not...by, utn, including them all, and in fact the
opposite is true. I'm concerned about not including ones that you have any
interest in purchasing.
Wilburn/ I just think in order to maximize the amount of information we can get at this
point, um, and within the next, uh, few months related to, uh, buyout and the
purposes of this program is to submit all the properties. That gives us the best
information.
Bailey/ But I want neighbors to hear that the likelihood of some of these homes being
bought out is slim. I hope that people are hearing that. I have a real concern that
we are sending, uh, quite a mixed message, uh, you know, respecting what these
people wish is one thing, um, respecting what...considering what the program
is...is quite another, and then what this body would do about taking this number
of properties off the tax rolls and investing in this area to become completely, um,
open space is...is another consideration that I think, um, remains to be seen how
we would go with that.
Wilburn/ I think partially as a result of, uh, the public information session that we had at
the Senior Center, uh, with representatives from Homeland Security and FEMA,
I...uh, and with the City Manager asking direct questions that were submitted by
all, and the public asking...I think the public, uh, at least the ones that were there
and those that watched, are...are aware of what, uh, of what we, uh, can expect
and are dealing with in terms of, um, decisions that have or have not been made at
the state and federal....or, I think there's a solid awareness of...of the potential
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that this, uh, may...that may not happen, that there maybe areas that would not be
allowed and that there's some funding constraints. I...I think that's been pretty
well experienced by all. So in that...I think that was one, um, benefit to the...to
that meeting that we had. (both talking) That's nothing against the folks at
FEMA or Homeland, I mean, obviously they have not made certain decisions,
certain decisions haven't been made at...at that level for practical, logistical,
and/or political reasons. Go ahead, Michael, I interrupted you. Sorry.
Wright/ Based on conversations that I've had, I think there seems to be a general
knowledge that folks understand they're not necessarily going to get this.
Bailey/ Right, hope and knowledge don't usually talk to each other (mumbled). I just
have concerns that we're setting up unrealistic expectations for people, and I just
want to be really clear that we're honoring what they wish, but...and we will
work as hard as we can to get as much money for this program to Iowa City,
but.. .
Champion/ Well, I've tried to make it perfectly clear to everybody I talk to that it's a slim
chance.
Wright/ We'll get something, certainly.
Champion/ We'll get something.
Hayek/ I, uh, I share Connie's view on the 15% issue, uh, and I am not comfortable, at
this point, with the City taking on that kind of financial burden, um, and I'm not
sure...and I know we don't have to make that decision right now, but I do want to
throw that out there and I think our budget's, uh, going to be facing tighter times
as it is, due to a variety of things, including the flood, um, but, uh, I don't see a
reason not to cast as wide a net as possible on this program.
Bailey/ Do you have what you need?
Davidson/ I believe we do.
Champion/ ...a lot of work and thanks very much. (several talking)
Bailey/ Yes, the map was great.
Wilburn/ ...the responded to, that's very helpful for the public that, uh, took the time and
were able to respond. Really appreciate that help.
Potential Sale of City Property:
Bailey/ Okay, potential sale of City property, Michael?
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Lombardo/ Yes, I provided a memo, uh, to you with today's packet that just kind of
frames the issue and, um, three houses have been purchased, uh, through Parking
and Transit, um, that were intended for parking in and around that area, um,
we've been thinking through and...and with the St. Pat's property redevelopment
that the parking is going to be (mumbled) interested in selling the homes, and
using the revenue to buy down some of the debt that's already there, or to go
towards that other project. Um, we do have interested buyers, uh, certainly the
County is very interested in these parcels. My question to you is in negotiating,
um, the purchase of these properties, are there, uh, restrictive covenants or things
that you would like to see in that agreement, and in particular, um, I can envision
a First Right of Refusal if the property is not, uh, used for a specific intention, uh,
that we could either ask for or request as part of the sale then...then we would
have the opportunity to buy it back at the price we paid for it, so that we
can...you're shaking your head.
Dilkes/ No, it wouldn't be the price we paid for it. Right of First Refusal generally works
such that, um, if they are contemplating a sale, they offer it to us at the price that
they're contemplating it, and we have the chance to meet that price.
Lombardo/ Okay. Um, or the second option, or second stipulation would be that we
would come to some level of agreement about, um, amenities or certain, uh, and I
hesitate to...I tried not to use the word design elements, but what we would want
that to look like down there and...and in light of our redevelopment plans for
those neighborhoods, to make sure that it's fitting and would encourage additional
development, um, the discussion, uh, last week was centered on, and somehow it
evolved to whether or not the Council would have approval. I'm not suggesting
you have approval of necessarily what gets built there, but provide input on the
front end, uh, or come to some agreement about what it may look like, uh, so that
we can ensure that future development plans are achievable in light of that
development. So, I wanted to run that by you before I went further in negotiating
those parcels, uh, and open it up for discussion because I don't want to run too far
down that road until I give you the opportunity to talk about it.
Champion/ It's my understanding that this property would be used as part of the new
criminal justice system. Isn't that correct?
Lombardo/ That's what the County's intention would be if they were to purchase it,
would be my understanding.
Correia/ So, how long is it, I guess I fee1...I felt a little blindsided I saw it in the paper
and I didn't even know it was for sale. Um, or maybe even didn't really know
that we owned it, and through what capacity, so, um, when...when do we need the
proceeds from the sale? I mean, when...the plans to build on that St. Pat's lot are
about 14 months out, or...12 months out or...
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Lombardo/ There's no imminent need to sell the...this came out of a discussion, um,
based on a offer that we thought was forthcoming, um, yes, and the discussion
was if I were to work through a purchase agreement to bring before you,
what...what are some of the things that I thought would be needed in there, and
um, quite frankly these two, uh, items that I'm discussing came from my thought
in discussing it with staff, uh, about perhaps some of the things we would want to
see in a purchase agreement so that we could make sure that, based on our
develop...our redevelopment plans down there, we were achieving what we
wanted to achieve. Um, so it had been discussions back and forth about, uh, the
likelihood of that, but, um, there's no imminent need to sell those properties.
Davidson/ Can I answer your question, Amy? We had a requirement, you might recall, in
our purchase of the St. Pat's site that St. Pat's gets to remain there in the parish
hall -can't tell you exactly when it is, basically next fall. Um, during that time
we're...we've started very preliminary massing design type issues. Next year we
hope to get into the meat of the actual design process, and eventually plans and
specifications. So at about the time that St. Pat's vacates the property, we're
ready to go with our construction project. It'll be 18 months.
Correia/ And there's nobody living in the houses?
Champion/ Oh, yes.
Wright/ I think they're rentals.
Correia/ I thought it said.. .
Dilkes/ No, they're vacant.
Champion/ Oh, they're vacant?
Davidson/ They're vacant right now, but they have been leased by the City.
Correia/ Right, they were leased in the past. I guess that was another question I had is,
there's been a huge need for people to find a place to be renting, and we had
available...I was wondering about why we weren't leasing them currently?
Lombardo/ I think the short answer is that Parking and Transit really aren't in the
property management capacity. If we were, and those houses being purchased
with parking funds have to be used for parking purposes, if we're going to do
anything to those...those structures.
Correia/ Well, I understand about that, but I mean while we owned them...
Dilkes/ They have been leased.. .
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Correia/ I just was wondering why we weren't currently leasing them since...
Dilkes/ Because we're getting ready to sell them, and that was a discussion that I believe
we had in discussion with the St. Pat site, that those assets would have to be
liquidated and used as a...to purchase the...the property.
O'Donnell/ I don't know why we wouldn't want to sell these. I can see, you know,
maybe some design standard or something, some input as to what goes there, but I
really don't know why we would not be interested in selling these to defray costs
on that new parking ramp. I think it's a good idea.
Champion/ But that's my concern too, but I also...my only reservation...I don't have any
real reservations, because I think we should sell them and try to bring down the
cost of that parking ramp, and those are, that is money, uh, parking money. Um, I
know the County, I mean, I don't know how definite their plans are, where
they're going to put this justice system, because aren't we going on ten years
now? Or maybe longer trying to decide what, where to put it? So, then I kind of
hate to take those houses out of the market, for Amy's reason, until they have a
definite plan, and I'm more than...
Dilkes/ You have an obligation to sell those properties now that you have decided on a
site for the parking facility.
Champion/ Okay, terrific, sell `em.
Wright/ There's no reason that the County couldn't chose to open them (mumbled)
Bailey/ Right, and I don't have any problems with negotiating this First Right of Refusal
or some kind of input. Obviously, I don't think it needs, I don't think Council
needs to do it, but some kind of input, because if we do have redevelopment plans
down there, uh, a governmental building is going to have an impact on those and I
think we should be discussing what that means and have input on what that can
look like and how it's situated.
Champion/ But you've got on one side, you've got the jail and the University parking lot,
which is massive. On the other side you have the courthouse, the federal
building, the federal parking lot. I mean, I'm not interested in what they're going
to put on there, because I don't think it's going to be affecting what our
redevelopment plans are.
Bailey/ Well, I think it will because it'll be in the neighborhood. We haven't even seen
the Central District Plan.
Correia/ Wouldn't we be doing that through the zoning process or the site...or once that
happens, does that happen at the sale or does that happen later, when they decide
to do something?
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Davidson/ Yeah, I think what's being suggested is our, you know, we do have an adopted
by the City Council redevelopment plan, and a design plan for that area, and
there's, you know, it's starting, things like the Court Street Transportation Center,
and what we have proposed for our new facility. A lot of the multi-family
housing that's been established down there, I mean, we're trying to create an
urban neighborhood that's a great place to live, that's adjacent to the University,
that's adjacent to downtown, and takes advantage of all the wonderful things that
there is about that, and in the case of the justice center and the jail, we don't
believe that that is inconsistent. We know of plenty of example throughout this
country where justice centers and jails are incorporated into urban areas, and they
are good neighbors, and they are pleasant places to be. We just want to make sure
that happens here.
Hayek/ I'll take it a step further. I wouldn't say they're just...they're not simply
inconsistent. I think they're entirely consistent with, uh, economic growth and uh,
I think we as a city are going to need to deliberate or weigh in at the appropriate
time, and I don't think it's too far off in the future, on the issue of, uh, justice
center, uh, courthouse, and...and related facilities, and as I understand it, the
County's interest in these three properties has to do with just those things, um,
and if...if in fact that's what they're hoping to do with these three properties, use
them in connection with...with courthouse, justice center and those sorts of
things, um, I think we should support that wholeheartedly.
O'Donnell/ I agree.
Lombardo/ Yeah, from my perspective, if we're...now is the time to work through these
issues, as opposed to when they have a bond referendum and are ready to build.
We don't want to slow down the process. So if you're interested in me pursuing
on some level of negotiations about what we might be able to come to an
agreement on, then I can certainly go do that, and um, when we have it all ironed
out, bring that back to you for adoption.
Wright/ I would say go for it.
Bailey/ Yeah, go. It would be great to have a justice center downtown. Okay.
Hayek/ On the design issue, I'm sure that's kind of the question mark out there, um, how
do we figure out what's appropriate for us to ask for.
Lombardo/ I think I can accommodate that best by sitting down and talking with others
involved. I have no preconceived notions about what it should look like or, it
just...through discussions I think we can...we can work that out and perhaps
present the plan and have a conversation about future vision of that area and what
we're trying to achieve and I think there's room to come to some agreement on
what might be done.
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Wright/ I don't think we're going to get a Victorian revival justice center...
Champion/ I don't think so either.
Lombardo/ Five colors or...
Champion/ But it's, um, I mean, I don't know if there's enough room there for an actual
new jail, but there's certainly room for expanding the courthouse. I don't know
what your plans are; I've lost track of them -sorry, but good luck!
Agenda Items:
Bailey/ Okay. So, um, before we break for formal meeting, um, any agenda items you
guys want to touch base with before we go? Any burning issues? I did have one
question about a letter we received about unpaid sidewalk repairs. What is that
about?
Champion/ Oh, I gave that to you.
Bailey/ Oh, that's what you gave, okay.
Champion/ Yeah, I mean, I had Marian pass it out to you. This is a letter that I received,
I mean, I received a copy of the letter he got from the City on paid sidewalk
maintenance, fines, I assume, um, winter, and I'm just...I think this is the case
where we need to give this man some slack. I left his name off purposely, uh, this
man has been in the hospital for over a year. He's a paranoid schizophrenic. His
family has done, they're done with him, you know, these people can be very, uh,
controversial with families, and rather than pursue this thing and, um, have him
think we're harassing him, I think this is one time the Council ought to step in and
say, `Let's give this guy some slack and forget this.' He's not been out of the
hospital for over a year, and he's a paranoid schizophrenic.
Correia/ He owns a home?
Bailey/ This is the Brookside...
Correia/ And he's assessed property tax?
Champion/ I assume so. This is just...
Correia/ I mean, there's been assessed and added to the bill. I think it's probably easier
just to assess him, add it on his tax bill, and...
Wright/ Obviously there needs to be some, um, there has to be some way for maintenance
and taking care of the property anyway.
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Bailey/ Connie, I need to clarify. This relates to the letter that we received about the
Brookside Drive...
Champion/ No, no.
Bailey/ ...sidewalk?
Champion/ This is different (several talking)
Bailey/ Oh, that's what I was...oh, okay. Okay.
Champion/ He said to get rid of the bills. I like that! (laughter) But I'm just telling you
that this man is not healthy. He's not mentally healthy and.. .
Bailey/ So what's the...
Dilkes/ It's not going to be a personal...personal judgment against him. It's just going to
be assessed as part of his property taxes. You understand that. This is about the
assessment that we did.
Champion/ Oh, so he's not going to keep getting letters about this. (several talking)
Dilkes/ We sent the...
Karr/ We've sent the second and last notice.
Dilkes/ ...so then it'll just go on his property tax bill.
Bailey/ So my question...
Karr/ Let me clarify. I don't know his property, so I would need to check.
Champion/ No, I don't know it either.
Karr/ So, I mean, I...unless I know the circumstance. If he was involved in the last
assessment, he's done. If he's getting bills and we haven't reached the
assessment yet, then he isn't, but if he's in the last one, they're done.
Dilkes/ I think it was in the last one, because the letter indicates that the resolution had
already been passed.
Karr/ Then indeed he is done.
Champion/ Okay. Okay, because it's not a very good situation.
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Bailey/ Okay. Any other agenda items? I'll just ask you about this after. Okay, let's
take a break ti117:00.
(work session resumed at conclusion of formal meeting)
August 11, 2008 Special City Council Work Session 8:53 P.M.
Council Present: Bailey, Champion, Correia, Hayek, O'Donnell, Wilburn, Wright
Staff: Karr, Helling, Dilkes, Lombardo
YAC Minutes (IP21):
Bailey/ Let's move into work session and take up the Youth Advisory Commission item
that was in the Information Packet, in the minutes. Is that what you're referring
to?
Wilburn/ Yes, that's correct. The, uh, Commission wanted some, um, I guess maybe just
to hear, uh, the opinions of the Council, as they work through some possible
revisions to the bylaws, um, one of the things that, uh, I think, uh, we've
discovered as, uh, both in setting up the Youth Advisory Commission, and as it
evolves with new, uh, people coming through the Commission, uh, is that you're
really figuring out, given the various forms that a Commission can take, um, both
the structure that's going to be appropriate for your community and one that's
going to, uh, well, I guess that's really, both logistics and uh, somewhat
philosophy, more logistics, on how the Commissions going to work, what's going
to work in Iowa City, uh, may not work in Waco, Texas, may not work in, uh, Los
Angeles. Um, one of the issues that came up in terms of, uh, I think particular is
in item four in there about...they wanted to know what the Council's thought
would be, um, about removing the Iowa City residence...residency restriction,
um, their hope is to, uh, I guess look at ways to, uh, help increase participation,
and um, their concern in particular was, uh, students that are attending West High
School, but live in Coralville, uh, having a, uh, ability to actually be appointed as
a member of the Commission. Um, and I guess they, um, one of the main things
was whether the Council would be amenable to that or not, um...is that a fair
representation?
Karr/ That's an example, I mean...
Wilburn/ Yeah.
Karr/ They certainly would like it...some general direction, whether you're amenable to
opening it up, wherever they live, as long as they are in Iowa City high school.
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Wilburn/ So there's more tying it to participation in Iowa City Community School
District, as opposed to the geographic...
Karr/ That's correct.
Wilburn/ So in that particular case, uh, it might involve someone, a young person in Lone
Tree or Coralville or North Liberty, because all of those are represented in Iowa
City Community Schools.
Karr/ Or certainly in the county itself.
Wilburn/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Thoughts?
Hayek/ Why not?
Wright/ Seems to me that that would, this starts moving out of the realm of being an Iowa
City commission if we do that. That might...I'm not saying that that's necessarily
a bad thing in the long run, but then at that point maybe this needs to be a Johnson
County.
Bailey/ Or a school district.
Wright/ Or a school district thing. I'm not sure if it'd be a city commission if I could
support that.
Bailey/ Other thoughts?
Correia/ I feel similarly in terms of...I mean, I understand from being the liaison and the
difficulty, and the students that do go to West and I know there were students who
went to West who were instrumental at UAY and didn't live in the city and um,
but I mean, I think that it's a way for those students to go to their city or their
county to try and get a similar commission established. I mean, we have a lot of
Iowa City youth that live in Iowa City. I know it's been difficult to attract
applicants, but um, I'd like to see it remain Iowa City.
Bailey/ And maybe that's more the point, is what...what, I mean, they're seeing it as a
challenge that there are people outside the city who want to participate, but I
know that we've experienced challenges getting applicants and also some
challenges with attendance, so perhaps there's a bigger question about what the
commission is taking on or...or does the school district need to do, I mean, the
school district does a lot of different youth engagement sorts of things, so perhaps
the question is bigger than, you know, geographic.
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Wilburn/ I can, um, I wanted to hear...I didn't want to "taint" or influence before I spoke
up, uh, to what the Council was thinking, but uh, I had expressed to the
Commission that I would try and explore possible, uh, structural things to get
more buy-in if possible from the schools, not only from the schools, but from
some of the youth-serving agencies, uh, in the community, and uh, secondly,
when we had spoken with the group, um, initially and the Council helped set it up,
um, was wanting it to be an Iowa City thing, uh, and opportunity, for one, was
already stated that youth in other communities could be talking to their
governmental body, and secondly, um, in terms of some of the activities, um,
there's no reason that youth can't participate in some of the activities, or even
discussions coming to the meeting, and you know, I mean, we have...there's
challenges with attendance with, uh, and participation in all of our boards and
commissions, and so maybe it's a larger structural thing to consider. One of the
things that they, that was discussed as a possible recommendation was taking a
look at, uh, at...at the calendar. What might make sense in terms of, uh, their, uh,
their academic calendar, perhaps tying to that, um, again, communities across the
board do it differently, but...so that's my (mumbled)
Bailey/ Okay, thank you. So you can convey that message to them, and thank them all
for the work that they're doing (mumbled)
Wilburn/ Marian, was there any other...one of these issues that L . .
Karr/ No, I think that was the main one that I think we'll go back and take a look at the
whole package again.
Wilburn/ Thank you.
Pending Issues (IP4):
Bailey/ And then let's look at, um, in the Information Packet, Item 4, briefly. There's a
summary of the schedule, pending work session issues. We're trying to get sort
of back on track with some, as we focus a lot in the summer on the flood, as we
should have. We also have some pending issues that are coming up. Michael, did
you want to comment on any of these? Or, I mean.. .
Lombardo/ Yeah, um, we have the next meeting covered, but I do need some indication
from... from Council what your priorities are so that we can begin to structure
staff time to attend to those needs and make sure that...that we're, you know,
respectful of your time and able to provide the information when you would like
to see it.
Bailey/ We talked this afternoon about doing snow removal policies in September, as
early as possible, but you were going to check with Rick about feasibility.
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Lombardo/ Yeah, Rick and I have to touch base, and I know he's working on an
ordinance. I'm not sure specifically what the timing is for bringing that before
you.
Bailey/ Okay.
Wright/ Certainly curbside recycling and combing the recyclables are issues that keep
percolating up in the community.
Bailey/ So are we thinking September, or I mean, let's put some...at least months to this,
and Michael can see what's feasible...with preparing some background
information. Can we roll that into talking about green initiatives, or is that just a
much broader discussion? Um...
Lombardo/ I think it's much broader, but I guess it really depends on what you want to
accomplish with the green initiatives...
Bailey/ What did we say about green (several talking) okay. All right. I don't know
what...who...there was some interest in green initiatives. What were we
specifically interested in? Can we give some more.. .
Lombardo/ If you would...if you could give some indication of...of a consensus on
priorities then we can try to fit it to agendas. I...I'd really like to talk to staff and
make sure that I understand what capacity they have to deliver for you.
Wright/ In terms of the green initiatives you mean?
Lombardo/ On everything on the list really.
Bailey/ So, snow removal policies, I know, that needs a priority, um, what else on this
list...I mean, the Central District Plan and the Parks Master Plan will just come to
us as...as they cycle through those commissions, correct? Okay. So we don't
really have to...
Champion/ Well, we're already almost into September. We have budget to really delve
into this year, we're going to have a lot of budget discussions. Snow removals
going to be pretty heavy and intense, if we get any snow again. Um, rather than
try to cram everything into this last quarter of the year, so to speak, I would rather
see us concentrate on some things, like what do we want to do with this flood
plain? I mean, I think that's a discussion we need to have soon, and I think it's...I
don't think it's going to happen overnight. (several talking) So rather than get a
bunch of things on our pending list, let's pick a couple things that we're going to
really delve into and make some decisions on.
Bailey/ Okay. So, are we crossing things off of this pending list?
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Champion/ They can stay on (mumbled) you know, but rather than put them on there, I
would really...I think we should spend some time discussing that and come up
with a real solution or what we really want done with that, because I think Steve
put it right - do you really want this all park? No, I don't.
Bailey/ Okay, other priorities?
Champion/ ...no, I don't.
Correia/ Others might though.
Bailey/ Well, we're not talking about that. Actually we're talking about pending items.
So, what else on this list? I really.. .
Wright/ Whatever became of the commercial vehicle congestion downtown?
Bailey/ Matt?
Hayek/ Well, the floods, that's what became of it. We, uh (several talking) Joe Fowlers,
uh, retirement. We actually...that's atopic that we're relatively prepared to
discuss at a work session, and we've had a meeting or two with the private sector.
We've got a sort of a rough outline of what would occur if we were to move
forward on this, so it wouldn't take much to get this ready to go. And it wouldn't
take much staff time.
Bailey/ So let's get that off the list, if we can. Um, other.. .
Correia/ ...September? Is that what you mean by get it off the list? (several talking)
Bailey/ Well, Michael will check, but I would say let's program it in September, if we
can, would be my...um...
Hayek/ I'd like to see, uh, and again, I say this with...mindful of Connie's comment
about focus on flood issues. I don't want us to detract or distract staff from the
hard work it has to do on these flood issues, um, with these other issues, which
are important, but we know where the City's priorities are right now, um, having
said that, I would like to see the Central District Plan, um.. .
Bailey/ It's to Planning and Zoning in September. That will...that will come to us
through a process. So it's on track.
Lombardo/ When Planning and Zoning are through with it, it will come to you naturally.
Hayek/ And...that will be timely, especially in light of our conversation tonight, with the
County and discussions about a justice center and all the stuff that's going on
south of Burlington, this will be a nice conversation to hold.
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Bailey/ What about the affordable housing, um, discussion? It's on our list, it's under
four down there. We've had the report. (several talking) I would say, from my
perspective, that's a priority to discuss.
Champion/ It is a priority. I just don't see us getting to it until January lst
Bailey/ Well, let's let Michael see what the staff can do, and then he'll bring...but I would
say that that would be a priority, uh, from my perspective, but...anything else we
want to try to get in?
Hayek/ That's five...I have five hash marks on my list. (several talking)
Bailey/ I think that that's...
Lombardo/ Are you looking for specific recommendations on affordable housing, or is
there a broader discussion that needs to be had?
Bailey/ We have not had a...a very broad discussion, and there are some community
groups who also want to participate in this discussion, about the
recommendations.
Lombardo/ We'll fit it in for a general discussion and then based on...on when you get
through that we can decide what, if anything from staff, you may or may not
want.
Champion/ I thought at one time we were going to have kind of a town meeting about
this.
Bailey/ We have some community groups so we should talk about how we want to
formulate that. (several talking) Okay. Does that give you the direction you
need? Five hash marks.
Lombardo/ And then we also have the Violence Against Women Task Force issues.
Bailey/ Right, that we added tonight. Okay.
Wright/ Well, if you want a relatively easy one down the road it could be the commercial
refuse pickup hours.
Bailey/ Really, easy? Huh...famous last words. Okay.
Wright/ A little thunderstorm down the alley, you know.
Bailey/ Um, that reminds me. We did talk about doing some...an alley discussion
coming back to us too. It should be on the list somewhere. An alley discussion,
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we were going to do an alley inventory and...and I know that that is in the works.
I don't see it any time soon.
Wright/ Just to kind of keep it on the radar screen.
Bailey/ Just to put it on the list (mumbled). Okay. All right.
Hayek/ Just...while I have you guys here, do we have the final figures on the cost of the
brickwork done on Church in front of the President's Mansion? The guys who
knew this are gone, but...do you have anything in the back of your head?
Lombardo/ I don't, but I can find that out. (several talking)
Helling/ It's completed, so we should know.
Bailey/ And as long as we're asking questions, there's some sidewalk work that occurred
on Washington Street downtown that's not the same as the sidewalk work in the
rest of the downtown, so I just was wondering if it will be or what the deal is with
that. Any other.. .
Correia/ Is that in front of Mama's Deli?
Bailey/ Yep.
Wright/ Yeah, what's going on with that?
Champion/ They're putting the same brick back, I think.
Bailey/ It doesn't have aggregate exposed. So, any other Council...Council time items?
(several responding) That's why I asked, I don't know. Okay. Any...okay.
Sorry, it's after 9:00. I was not true to my word, but thanks for staying late.
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