HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-10-20 TranscriptionOctober 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 1
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session 5:30 P.M.
Council Present: Bailey, Correia, Hayek, O'Donnell, Wilburn, Wright, Champion (arrived
at 6:20 P.M.)
Staff: Lombardo, Helling, Hargadine, Goers, Dilkes, Karr, Davidson, Ford,
Trueblood, Boothroy, Howard, Rocca, Ream
Others Present: UISG Representatives
Parks & Recreation Master Plan:
Bailey/ Okay, let's get started. It's going to be a long night.
Trueblood/ Okay. As you know, we've been working on a parks, recreation, trails master
plan for over a year, I guess, and uh, about three weeks ago, uh, the Parks and
Recreation Commission saw a, uh, draft, a final draft. Rather than have our
consultant come back and give another presentation to the Commission, they felt
it was important for the Council to see it, so tonight's an abbreviated version. I
would like to acknowledge that a couple of our Commission Members are here
tonight in the audience -Jerry Raaz and John Westefeld...think anybody else
sneaked in. Uh, so, anyway, I'd like to give you a PowerPoint presentation and
uh, I'd like to introduce, uh, Pat O'Toole. Uh, we went through quite a selection
process and ended up selecting the firm of GreenPlay, LLC, which is
headquartered in Broomfield, Colorado, but Pat works out of the Lawrence,
Kansas office, and so you won't have to mention it, Pat, I'll just say, `Yes, that's
the home of the reigning NCAA basketball champions.' (laughter and several
talking) I don't have to...but (several talking)...so, Pat, the floor is yours.
O'Toole/ Thank you! Uh, tonight basically you got a couple of things in front of you, but
I want to point out the...the bound copy is an Executive Summary that we've put
together. Uh, as Terry said, we've been working on the...the master plan for
about a year. Um, these are the highlights and then the PowerPoint is even more
highlights out of this, so it does kind of follow this Executive Summary with more
detail obviously in...in the Executive Summary. Try to get through the
presentation here and then, uh, welcome any questions or...or comments
concerning the, uh...draft report. The process we've gone through, uh, these are
just some bullet points. Start-up meeting where we kind of set out the parameters
of the schedule and...and set up, uh, particularly the community input process.
Did a very extensive community input process with focus groups. We were
basically here for the better part of a week. Looked at every park, every facility,
uh, talked to...just tons of people from interest groups to citizens, um, likewise
used that information to put a community survey together, uh, statistically valid
survey that was sent out into the community. Looked at the demographics, um,
and likewise projections of the demographics for Iowa City. As we were here we
did the inventory and also an assessment and looked at level of service that each
of the facilities and parks were delivering. Some being community-driven. Some
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 2
being neighborhood-driven. And then used all this information to come up with
recommendations and an action plan, which is really what the focus is tonight,
is...is kind of like here's the...the recommendations for the next, uh, I believe 12
years. We typically don't put a timeframe on it until we see what all it entails
and...and um, looking at what is...is really implementable, uh, in the future. And
then we've got, uh, this is kind of the...the final report session, and then we do
have a full report, with appendix. It's rather lengthy, 100-plus pages I believe,
um, so we created this...this Executive Summary, which is what we'll kind of go
through tonight. On the community input, just pulling out some of the...the
strengths that, uh, the community told us about the...the Parks and Recreation
Department. Staff being visionary, responsive, a lot of compliments on the staff,
uh, and how they react to the citizens. As far as facilities, for the most part well-
maintained, variety of parks, programs; a lot of diversity and variety in the types
of programs; something for all ages; um, and the support and funding, a good
relationship with City Hall was brought out, and... and capital funding is effective
to allow for some of those things that...that need to be upkept. As far as the areas
of improvement, again from the public input process, recognition that a lack of
staff for maintenance and programming, um, Foundation and the PIO staff. So,
uh, as we asked the community what are some...some areas of improvement or
weaknesses of the department that we need to look at, um, these are the
(coughing, unable to hear) staffing that they thought really needed to be boosted
up a little bit. As far as facilities, a lack of trail and particularly trail connectors,
uh, where people could use those not only for exercise and what have you, but a
way of transportation, mode of transportation, from neighborhood to
neighborhood, park to park, schools, just kind of connecting a lot of the...the high
points in your community. Uh, poor maintenance of natural areas, um, we heard
an awful lot of comments that were, everything's maintained well, but there's not
enough staff to get to some of the areas that we're trying to keep, um, natural.
Services and programs, a need to increase collaboration, um, partnerships;
looking at who else in the...the community, um, can help put some services
together, and a need to identify poor services. Um, I think some of the comments
were trying to be something to everybody, sometimes you need to focus down on
what you do best and allow some of the other entities in the...in the community to
do it, or collaborate with them. Support and funding, uh, there was a lack of, or at
least from the community standpoint, a lack of capital funding for projects, and a
lack of operations and maintenance funding, uh, particularly in the staffing realm.
And public awareness, lack of information and education. There were some folks
that, uh, didn't feel like they knew what was being offered from the Parks and
Recreation Department, so a need to promote the Parks and Recreation division,
and the quality of life issue came out of those...those input sessions. As far as
what additional facilities and amenities people would like to see, outdoor leisure
pool with a lap swimming area; recreational aquatic center on the west side;
municipal golf course; splash pad or spray-grounds; indoor soccer; farmer's
market facility -farmer's market came out as...as a program that was very well
liked in the community. I mean, it ranked the highest thing as far as what people
really appreciate. Um, BMX parks and trails, so trails really across the board, but
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 3
particularly in the survey, came out as the number one need that people saw. So
amenities, uh, pedestrian bridge at the dog park, the trail connectors, rail
corridors, multi-use trails, um, river access, more or less some...some multi-
purpose trails used for all ages for exercise, for fun, as well as transportation
corridors; more neighborhood parks and dog parks; and basketball courts in the
parks. Some of the highlights of the...of the survey, of the 92% respondents of
the households who visited Iowa City parks over the past year, 92% rated the
physical condition of all the parks as either excellent or good. So very high rating
as far as the maintenance of parks. Of the 30% respondents of household
members that have participated in a department's recreation programs, 90% of
those respondents, um, rated the quality (coughing) excuse me, of the programs
either excellent or good. Might point out 30%, um, a lot of times people think
that's low -that's right on the national average of participation, of 30%
households in park and recreation programs. Um, and I also might point out
that...that middle green area, those are people that take part in...in organized
programs, not necessarily visiting a park, so the red...90% of your households
that are visiting parks at some point in time. The third highlight, 76% of the
respondents indicated that they were either satisfied or somewhat satisfied with
the overall value that they are receiving from the Parks and Recreation
Department. Really good statistics on...on how people appreciate the Parks and
Recreation Department. We asked folks what's most important - in facilities, it's
most important to the households to include walking and biking trails, small
community parks, wildlife and natural areas, and nature center and trails. So
those are kind of the top...the top realm of things, and again, we've got the
statistical information on percentages and number of households that answered a
laundry list of stuff with the ability to write others in. As far as programs, most
important the farmer's market, again, came out very high. Adult fitness and
wellness programs, and special events. As far as indoor space, walking and
jogging track, weight room, cardio equipment, exercise facility for adults 50 years
old and older. Recommendations and strategies, and I might point out in your
Executive Summary, starting on page 11, you can kind of follow...again, we've
pulled out the goals and the strategies and underneath the strategies are the
detailed action steps. So if you kind of follow along, again, so we didn't put
everything up here. Number one, just talking about maximizing the plan, a
strategy to incorporate all the action items of the plan into the City's annual work
plans; to achieve the recommendations of the plan and enhance the efforts of the
staff. So again, it's endorsed by the City, everybody knows this is the goal we
want to achieve for the Parks and Recreation over the next ten or plus years.
Assure that all levels of staff are informed of and are set up to work together and
implement the...the recommendations, the strategies of the plan. So again,
everybody knows how they fit in, and how the pieces of the puzzle fit together, as
far as their day-to-day activities. Goal number two, track performance measures.
Great standards for all community service activities. This is kind of a measuring
stick so in every service that you create, what are some of those measuring sticks
that people can count on, and that you can kind of track, um, for continuous
improvement. And again, we've got those listed in the...in the action steps. Goal
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 4
three, enhance the program development. First strategy, seek ways to respond to
identified programming priorities. So, again, we've got a priority list now. How
do those fit into the day-to-day as far as...as uh, achieving those and...and putting
those out in the public. Identify and develop programs related to new trends in
parks, recreation and cultural arts. Again, to stay up with those...those trends in
the programmatic area, that people are looking for. And goal four, pursue
comprehensive service delivery. Reach out to those with financial need, and
assure programming opportunities are reasonably available to all geographic
sectors. One of the things we looked at was, are there any geographic areas that,
um, don't have access to services as much as others, and likewise, set up a
program where you...you, uh, can include all those, and have a program to help
those with, uh, financial needs. Goal five, solicit community involvement and
feedback. The strategy, regularly solicit community input in programming and
facility planning efforts, so that you have kind of a continuous, um, operation
where people feel comfortable telling you what they'd like to see, the changes, the
new programs, keeping you up with those trends, and expand department
volunteer opportunities, where in this day and age, you can really extend your
staff, um, through volunteerism, and really set up a, um, healthy volunteer
program. Goal six, increase awareness of program offerings. The strategy,
effectively communicate department offerings to the public, and have some action
steps in there that will help, um, as the public helped us determine where
and...and how they would like to receive information, and...and know when the
programs are and where they are. Goal seven, assure financial sustainability.
First strategy, research potential traditional funding opportunities, and again,
we've got some action steps in there. Pursue alternative funding to implement the
master plan. What we looked at were, uh, what we see across the country that are
possibilities that might work here to get some alternative funding opportunities
working. And a third strategy, to review the department's cost-recovery
philosophy and policy, and update it as necessary. So we've recommended a
system that will, uh, create some equity and allow everybody to make conscious
decisions on where tax subsidies will fall in the program arena. Goal eight, to
collaborate with community organizations and businesses. First strategy, build
partnerships within the community to take advantage of existing facilities, share
new facilities, provide additional programming and services for the community.
Second strategy, pursue a dynamic and mutually beneficial relationship with the
Senior Center, and a third strategy, to explore community access relationship with
the University of Iowa new student wellness center. Goal nine, continue to
provide equitable level of service in existing parks and facilities. This is one
where there's quite a few action steps, but as far as the strategies, improve
existing parks to meet the community standards, so as we assess parks and uh,
didn't just take an inventory and say, `Here's how many of what you have,' but
we assessed the condition of those, and how well they fit into, uh, your
community. So there's a long list, and we'll go through some of those, uh, in...in
a chart here at the end, to really upgrade those to what the community sees as the
standard in Iowa City. Strategy two, fill the gaps in walkable service. Again,
back to connector trails and allowing folks to get from place to place. Strategy
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 5
three, continue to provide a high level of service of natural areas and
environmental education; and strategy four, identify and develop facilities for new
trends in parks and recreation. Goal ten, plan for continued equitable level of
service as the community grows. Looking at the growth areas, and...and the
growth rates, strategies of adding parks and trails and facilities to respond to the
growth needs of the community, as it grows, and increase the level of service
provided for indoor facilities, and one of our identifications was on the west side
as it grows out. Goal eleven, increased level of service for trails. Again, this was
high priority from the community. Strategies to increase level of service offered
by existing trails and parks and throughout the community, and increase trail
connectivity and overall trail network. What we've done is broken out the, uh,
recommendations and...and action steps, put costs to them, and timelines. We
broke it out into three timelines - 2009 to 2012 priorities, those added up to
$3,430,000 in 2008 dollars. 2013 to 2016 priorities, $9,230,000; and 2017 to
2020 priorities, $30,220,000. So total 12-year plan, $42, 880,000. And we've got
those broken down into these charts. So these are what we would consider to be
the first priorities, not necessarily in any one order, but in your first five years,
upgrade and replace the playgrounds at Creekside, Highland, Mercer, and Tower
Center, or Tower Court Parks of four playgrounds, totaling $240,000. We also
have the capital funding sources listed there, and the annual operating and
maintenance costs. Add restrooms to one westside park, $150,000, with $5,000
O&M. Add two small shelters to multi-purpose trails, $30,000, $2,000 O&M.
Construct trail projects, $3,000,000, estimated $10,000 per mile per year for
upkeep and maintenance. Create a renovation master plan for Creekside Park,
$10,000. Addition of one maintenance worker for $38,000. So by the time these
things are implemented, we're...we're recommending that one maintenance
worker be added to keep up with that.
Trueblood/ Might just mention here that each one of these are above and beyond what
shows in the current CIP plan. They take those as being funded, and then make
their recommendations for other items, on top of what's already showing in your
budget for the funded years.
O'Toole/ So this is all new projects and new money that we're recommending here.
Correia/ I'm sorry. So what's currently on the CIP isn't included in here?
Trueblood/ That's correct.
Correia/ So does that mean...
Bailey/ This is in addition.
Correia/ ...those items are not part of our park planning process?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 6
O'Toole/ It means...and in the text what we're recommending is those that are...are
planned, funded, that they continue. In other words, we've looked at all of those
CIP plans and rather than...so what the next ten years, or these 12 years are about
is continuing what you're doing, but these are in addition to.
Correia/ Why would we not integrate both of those into one document? `Cause I mean
it's...it, because as I'm looking at this, I'm seeing...and now I hear why, like the
Sand Lake isn't in here. Recreation area, because it's already on our...CIP, but as
we're...planning for parks over this period of time it makes sense to me that we
have all of the context in one document for, you know, efficiency.. .
O'Toole/ Number one that would make a huge document. Secondly, what we do is refer
to a document that you've already got, that...a plan that's approved and funded,
and in here it says continue that on the same timeline. So we make reference to it,
but we don't take all that text and put it in here and add it to the cost, which is
very typical of master planning...to...these are the additional things, and usually
the...as we sat down and if it's...now if it's not funded, that's a different story.
So we're looking at that line kinda being, if it's not approved and funded, then it
needs to be in this plan. If it is approved and funded, then there is a plan, there's a
timetable, there's a funding source, so that...is how we did it anyway.
Trueblood/ Could easily enough be adjusted to include the current CIP (mumbled)
through 12 years.
Correia/ May make sense to me, just in terms of the big picture, or the full picture, for
what we want to accomplish in our parks, the recreation.
O'Toole/ And actually, I mean, there were some kind of...what we did was take out that
stuff in some of these cases.
Wilburn/ One other, uh, perspective on that, uh, I'm not...I'm not arguing that shouldn't
happen, but in terms of, um, the Council looking and prioritizing what we do have
in our existing CIP, um, it would seem to me that one approach we could take in
making decisions about whether to approve one or not is to look and see if a
particular existing project or existing planned project falls within one of the goals
that are identified in this...in this, uh, master plan. For example, um, the goal of
collaborating with community organizations and businesses. If one of our
existing planned, um, CIP identified projects, uh, if we could give staff the
directive to, uh, look for any of those projects that might lend themselves to
natural...naturally partnering with an organization or existing business, then in
my mind we're beginning making the move towards the Park and Rec master
plan. Does that make sense?
O'Toole/ And I'm...looking at page 21 where we've got under the goal "continue to
provide equitable level of service in existing parks and facilities." One of the
bullets, continue to make the development at Sand Lake Recreation area a
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 7
priority. Another one, uh, continue to work with the City to find construction
techniques to increase the maintenance for downtown Pedestrian Mall. Um, the
IC Kickers Park, and as this...as, even taking a year, I think we discovered some
things that were even under construction that showed up here that we kind of had
to make a call, or if there's two shelters -one's built and another one's going to
be built two years from now. So, again, trying to recognize those existing plans,
um, without putting all that text in there, or you know, some places, um, refer to
it. Other places say let's put it as an appendix, um, what we find most of the time
is councils want to see how many new dollars, beyond what's already been
approved. But, as Terry said, particularly on the last charts that we can add pretty
simply whatever...and I guess from our perspective it'd be as something that
hasn't started construction yet, something that's got afive-year plan and you're
halfway through it, what kind of time frame is sometimes the issue.
Correia/ One of the things I noticed, and you know, we're just getting this, so it's not like
we've had time to look at it, is that all of the, um, priorities and costs are related
to infrastructure, which you know I understand. One of the...something that you
said that, um, put up the light bulb to me was getting information to everyone
about what Parks and Recreation Department has to offer, and I know in the past,
years ago, every resident received...address received the book, um, and I know at
one time, and then that was discontinued because of the cost, but I think...I think
that's one of the best ways for everybody...I know that the schools now send out
to all elementary school students, probably, um, but I mean, I'd be interested in
what would be the cost of doing that, um, every season, or twice a year, or once a
year, something to...to, um...
Bailey/ Did you get any feedback about that? I mean, you got feedback about lack of
awareness, but were there residents who remembered receiving that book and
asked about it again?
Wilburn/ Or just to push that a little bit further, um, one of the, um, one of the things that,
uh, was mentioned at our retreat was, um, kind of looking at things, rather than
saying there's a lack of describing what's present so this example, um, were there
any questions in your survey, and it may not...may be after the case, uh, after the
fact, that talk about what was present. In other words, is the demand for
information about our services, uh, I mean, one way of what could be present is
we're not putting anything out. Another thing is we're not putting enough
information out. Another could be that, uh, we are targeting the wrong ways that
people look for information. If we're putting out paper and people look to the
web, so was there any feedback related to that, you know, what people, how
people were taking...
O'Toole/ The overall feedback, probably the majority of folks, and this is pretty common.
Those that participate every season know where to find it, know who to run down,
know where to go and get it. The ones that would...that didn't know, um, you
can't delineate what they would and wouldn't have done if they would have
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa city t~ity
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 8
known, but we had some comments on the web and then the next comment you
hear, so it's give and take. Next one is well, I would never look there or I don't
look there, um, we got enough information that in our mind, and what's in here is
track that so that every registration, every phone call that comes in you ask that
question -where did you hear about us -and you'll see what is working and
what's not. We did hear people that said we think we ought to mail it to every
household. And the next person would say that would be a waste of money. So,
again, through the focus groups you can have those conversations, but it doesn't
make it statistically valid. In our survey, we did ask how people did get it, and
how they would like to get it, and we have...have those down here, but without
saying this is what you should do, what we do know is, uh, you can...and the
reason there's probably not dollars in here is...is through a collaboration with
schools, you can send that brochure home with every school kid. Some
communities do, some communities the schools won't let you. Lot of `em
put...they totally fund that three to four-time a year brochure with advertising...to
include direct marketing, or direct mailing costs. And then it's kind of a no-
brainer. The...the advertisers are paying for that to go out in the community and
we have the money every year. So it's difficult...what we try not to do is just put
a cost to everything when there's...there's really good ways, particularly in this
day and time when funds are tight to win-win-win for a lot of people. So, what
we've got in here is to look at those situations, see what is working, see where
people are coming from, get this continual feedback process working where you
can not just ask one time. Continually ask people, because the bottom line is you
probably do need to do it through web site. You probably do need to do it
through direct mail. You probably do need to do it through schools. Um, in...in
Parks and Recreation, even though you put your brochure out, there's umpteen
programs that happen after that fact that turn up in flyers in newspapers and all
that. So it's...right here what we're suggesting is looking at that marketing issue,
looking at the survey results, and finding that blend, but we didn't...we got some
good information, but it's only going to be good for X number of months, and you
can set up a process which is what we're saying here to continually do that, and
you might, you know, some communities have gone from four times a year, the
brochure, to three times. That's more cost effective, and it just stretches that
program a little longer. Um, some come from three to four. So there's not a...a
set deal. What we do know is if you do put it in every household and can afford
to do that, sometimes it gets thrown out, you know. There's communities that put
it in the Sunday paper and it gets shook out with everything else, and then people
call back and say, `Well, what Sunday did that come out?' So, sometimes you put
your marketing dollars in advertising when and where it's coming out, and create
some shelf time, and...and some people if you haven't signed up for a program in
four years, you don't get it direct mail and...and sometimes that's hooked up on
kids going to college. What we are finding is now the...the baby boomers are
kind of getting back into some of that stuff, and would like to see it. So, I don't
know if that answers your question, but that's...that's why we haven't pinpointed
a dollar figure. We're suggesting some...some, um, processes be set up to find
that out, and there's probably a more efficient way of finding that, and we don't
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 9
know by looking at it whether you've got ample dollars or not, because you can
get some...some sponsorships, you can do a lot of things with your web,
and...but what we did recognize is you did have a sector of your market that says
we don't really know when things are happening.
Wilburn/ I didn't want to put words in your mouth, was that a fair extension of what you
guys were saying? Okay.
Bailey/ I mean, I like the idea of a process. That makes a lot of sense. I mean.. .
Trueblood/ Just as a reminder here, yeah, it was cost related when we quit doing that with
the brochures, but it was also happening at the same time with the development of
the web site, online registration, and that sort of thing, but I was just looking here
and the survey component of it indicated that, uh, that the recreation...Parks and
Recreation Guide is still the biggest way that people learn about our programs.
LTh, 65%, and I couldn't find it right now, but I do recall when our, uh, the firm
that did this survey gave their presentation to us, they said something about
our...our web site and people using it and looking to it, and so forth, was
extremely high with others around the country. So, it's something we've got to
take a look at, but yeah, we certainly...with 65% of `em, uh, we certainly have to
keep doing the Guide, if not maybe go back to, uh, doing it more. (several
talking)
Correia/ I was going to say, not everybody uses it (mumbled)
O'Donnell/ How many did you survey?
Trueblood/ I'm sorry?
O'Donnell/ How many did you survey?
Trueblood/ Uh, the survey went out to 2,500 households and they got a response back,
uh, only 400 was required to be statistically valid, but we required 500 and
actually got back 676 or there about.
Wilburn/ It's 27%.
Trueblood/ Pardon me?
Wilburn/ 27% responded.
Trueblood/ Something like that. So it was considered a very good response.
O'Toole/ It's one of those where everything we saw, your brochure is by far your best
piece. But not ignoring that people said I have never seen it. So, the best thing
about the survey is to note that it went out not just to users. Most of the people
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 10
we talked to in the community input are interested people that will come down
and visit with us. So, they're typically, I would say, 95% plus users of some Park
and Recreation program. This includes the people that don't know where parks
are, don't get out, so it...it does give a really good...good view of that, so if I
remember, your high in people seeing the brochure and signing up. You're also
high in web site. So, you're an educated community.
Bailey/ Other questions or comments...about this? What are the next steps, Terry? I
mean, we don't have a formal item on our agenda regarding this.
Trueblood/ No, right now...
Bailey/ When do we expect that?
Trueblood/ ...next step for us, uh, well, we'll be getting...it's not that close to being all
finalized right now. So, uh, we'll get that all finalized. We take it back to the
Parks and Recreation Commission to get them, uh, to adopt it, and then I'm
presuming, I haven't really talked with (mumbled) but I'm assuming back to
Council by resolution for adoption (mumbled) uh, upon recommendation from the
Parks and Recreation Commission.
Bailey/ Okay. And, then that full...the full report will be available online, at some point,
or how...how are you going to do that?
O'Toole/ Can be. You'll get it electronically, as well as, um, hard copies. Um, so it can
be printed out; it can be downloaded on...a lot of people won't, they'll put the full
report, some of `em will just...this will be the first section in the report, which
will have all the big rocks, so to speak, and all of the recommendations. And then
the detail, like I said, is a hundred page report, and then the appendix behind that,
which will have the survey details and...and an awful lot of workable, uh, options
for these. So it's a question of how much you want to put on there, how available
you want to make it, if you want to put the survey results. Some people rotate per
month. So, but you'll have...
Bailey/ Any other comments?
O'Toole/ One thing I do want to point out...I'll throw it up here; you can finish out those
charts on your own, and certainly the details on the action plans. The other
handout you have is...is what we call the recommendations map. Typically is a
pretty good piece that shows kind of where stuff goes without pinpointing parcels
that tend to go up in price when you do that, but it's looking at the
implementation of this plan, where things would go, um, and...and a lot of times
this is just a good marketing piece to put on the wall and what have you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 11
Wright/ Just looking at this map, um, I see some future parks posted there and we've also
got the new proposed Comprehensive Plan, which has future parks that aren't on
here.
Bailey/ Right. Are we going to try and jive these two?
Bailey/ That's what I was wondering.
O'Toole/ Typically we'll pull out the...the big ones, but we can certainly put as much as
we can fit on this page. So, that...and that's really what we're waiting for to get
the final product...there's any staff input or Council input or Rec Board input that
we get it in there before we send the final to you.
Wright/ I think it'd be nice to have all our future parks agreeing both places.
Bailey/ With all of our district plans.
Wright/ Yeah, with our district plans, and uh, and this comprehensive map.
Trueblood/ Yeah, but there could also be a situation where our survey, uh, or their
assessment showed something different than what the district plans are showing.
You know, maybe our survey didn't indicate, uh, or recommendations don't
indicate a park being needed in a certain area, but yet Central District Plan, for
example, does show a need for it. But, yeah, they have to...they have to work
hand in hand.
Correia/ But I think that's a function of talking to different people in different
neighborhoods. Like you said, you had focus groups and some people went to
those and we had people...there were specific parks focus groups for the Central
District Plan.
Bailey/ Right.
Correia/ So I mean, I think it makes sense in the end that our documents...
Bailey/ Well, and also when you're...when you're in a group for this, you might be
thinking differently than when you answered a survey for this, just because you're
sitting with your neighbors, I mean, so I think it would be a great comprehensive
list. (several talking)
Correia/ What's an adventure playground?
O'Toole/ I'm sorry?
Correia/ What's an adventure playground?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 12
O'Toole/ More of a destination, larger, um, it can handle school groups, maybe several
school groups, um, attract folks from different cities. So it's more of a
destination, adventure kind of...it can be themed, um, can be bought off the rack,
it can be customized to Iowa City.
Correia/ So that...that's what we have in here for upper City Park. So, that sounds like a,
what's the word for...
Bailey/ Expensive?
Correia/ No, not expensive (laughter) um...it seems much different than what we
currently have in upper City Park. It seems like a, you know, not adventure, and
obviously it's not that much space, but you're talking about rides and.. .
O'Toole/ No, no, no.
Correia/ No, okay.
O'Toole/ Still be a playground.
Correia/ Is there an example of an adventure...
Bailey/ Are you talking...are you talking more of those, like those natural ones that
they're doing now? Are you.. .
O'Toole/ Can be.
Bailey/ Okay.
O'Toole/ Can be themed, can be, I mean, we've seen `em as...as full family, meaning
adult -has an adult section. I mean, adult playgrounds are...are kind of a trend.
Small kids playground, it also can be...whether the focus is to jump out of that
box where they look the same in different parks for different neighborhoods, and
it is a community-wide destination place where you'll spend a few hours, where
you know daycare centers...it's a...it's an outing -for daycare centers, for
schools, for...could be, you know, Cedar Rapids' folks come down here on a
Sunday just to go to that playground, and they're working well in a lot of cities.
Correia/ Can you give me an example of one I could like go check it out on the web?
Bailey/ Yeah, that would be...probably be.. .
O'Toole/ There's one in Indianapolis...trying to think of the name of it...I believe there's
one in Cincinnati. And they're all different sizes. Some include, you know, spray
grounds and...and those types of things. So the...a lot of `em is more of a themed
around the community kind of thing.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 13
Trueblood/ Basically a really big playground with lots of neat stuff. Does that help any?
Bailey/ Okay. Any other questions or clarifications? Okay.
O'Toole/ Thank you.
Bailey/ Thank you for the presentation. We look forward to seeing the full report
guess. This is all new to me. Yeah, those are the shifting (mumbled).
Planning and Zoning Items:
ITEM 7. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
a) AMENDING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO INCLUDE
THE CENTRAL DISTRICT PLAN.
Davidson/ ...depending on the questions.
Bailey/ Okay. Our next is Planning and Zoning Items, a and b.
Davidson/ Good evening, Madame Mayor, Members of Council. Love the new layout.
(laughter) Um, very quickly, in response to the prior item, and a question that
Mike had, um, we...we would expect, eventually, the Central District Plan and all
the district plans, to be consistent with the Parks master plan. Um, as someone
astutely noted, that because they've been developed through different dynamic
processes, uh, you wouldn't necessarily expect that to happen, uh, you know,
automatically with the development of each, but we certainly would expect to
reconcile those eventually...
Wright/ Exactly.
Davidson/ ...and...and I think also they're, you know, the perspective is a little bit
different. I mean, we're looking 30 years in the future for some of the
comprehensive planning type stuff, and I wouldn't have any idea if that's the
same that the Parks' plan has or not, but at any rate, we would expect to reconcile
those. Uh, we have Items a and b for discussion tonight. Uh, Item a is amending
the Comprehensive Plan to include the Central District Plan. I think this is the
sixth or seventh, uh, district plan that we have produced as offspring of the 97
Comprehensive Plan, and I think most of you are aware by now that, uh, what we
do with these district plans is it's sort of a gradual updating of the Comprehensive
Plan, looking at an area, um, in more detail than the overall Comprehensive Plan
does. Upon adoption by the City Council, these district plans become the
Comprehensive Plan, the overall vision, uh, enacted through the legislative
process that we will go through, uh, it becomes the official vision Comp Plan for
that area, and we found this to be a very successful process, uh, and I think the
Central District Plan is...is certainly consistent with what we've been able to do
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 14
with our previous district plans, and that is really engage the community. Um, I
mean, we had excellent turnout at the, uh, public meetings that we had, and those
are really, really important in terms of the development of this plan, and I
wouldn't want anyone to think that this was sort of a top-down planning process,
uh, from the Planning Department. I mean, we really have engaged the
community and L ..I think that makes a much better planning document. Uh, we
are going to have a presentation. I mean, I'd be happy to...uh, Karen Howard or I
will be happy to answer any questions that you have this evening. Uh, Karen and
Bob and Sarah Walz will make a brief presentation, uh, tomorrow, uh, on camera,
about 15 minutes, and take you through the plan. Um, so I guess you know we
can wait and have questions then if you'd like, but if there's anything, and
certainly if there's anything you want to have us be prepared for, uh, tomorrow,
we'd be happy to, uh, take that input right now.
Correia/ One of the questions I had, is there's a lot of references to affordable housing,
throughout, which I like, um, but there's no definition anywhere of what we
mean, in the context of the plan, of affordable housing, and I know I saw that in
the minutes of the Planning and Zoning Commission, public comment, about that
specifically, um, and so I wondered if there's a place that that would go, um, and
if when...when the planning process, when folks were talking about affordable
housing, did they mean at 80%...was it income-targeted affordable housing, um,
and what...um, I think my neighborhood was mentioned as being an affordable
neighborhood, but I'm not sure recently how many homes are selling under
$100,000. I'm not sure that would be affordable for folks at 80% and below.
But...the definition that is generally used when you use those terms together.
Davidson/ Yeah, why don't you let me see, Amy, as you've alluded to, there's a lot of
ways to define it.
Correia/ Right.
Davidson/ Um, let me...let me see if it was defined a specific way in the neighborhood
meetings that we had, and if the plan can further develop. You know, I'm used to
the 60 to 120% of median type definition, but let me find out for certain and we'll
try and define that more clearly here. Any other, uh, questions?
Bailey/ Anything else that any of you...I mean, I think it's great that we'll do this
presentation on camera tomorrow. Any specific things that they should bring out,
focus upon, be prepared for tomorrow?
Hayek/ I may ask some questions about, um, the, uh, the recent trend of, uh, large
apartment complexes in the downtown and near downtown area, and the
references I see in this, uh, excellent document to that issue seemed to fall under
the category of housing, and I may have some questions as they relate to that
trend's impact on commercial, retail, office space. I don't know if there's any, I'll
just let you know now that I may ask those questions, and if...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 15
Davidson/ Yeah, that's a...that's a very appropriate question for tomorrow evening, Matt.
I will tell you that there are a couple of initiatives working their way through the
Planning and Zoning Commission. In fact, did they make it out of P&Z
(mumbled). Yeah, they did make it out of P&Z so you'll be getting them shortly.
Changes to the CB-10 zone to specifically address some of the concerns about the
types of buildings that we are seeing, uh, at least in the last couple recent years,
um, and obviously Council will have at their discretion to decide if...if those are
worthy of changes in public policy.
Bailey/ Um, there was a lot of discussion about bicycle transportation in here, which I...I
appreciated, and in the spirit of linking all of our plans together, I was...I would
probably...I will ask tomorrow night how these goals will be tied to our bike plan,
that we're developing.
Davidson/ Yeah, I think...I think you're all aware that we're in the...J000G I should
say is in the midst of a bicycle master plan and, uh, I took the survey today. I
encourage you all to take it. Go online, uh, JCCOG web site. Um, but um, yes,
there are things that we address specifically in the Central District Plan, things
that came out of the neighborhood meetings that are addressed in here. Um, and I
guess we'll have to see if there are any, oh, hi, Connie. We'll have to see if there
are any things specifically that comes out of that master planning process that, I
mean, I can't imagine it would be inconsistent, but if it's worthy of being
amended into the plan or...or vice versa, we'll have to address that.
Bailey/ Okay. Anything else for tomorrow...
Correia/ Yeah, the other thing I had was the, um, question was in a few places it talks
about, um, potential new development proposed for flood-prone areas along Iowa
River and Ralston Creek, and I know that came up as well. Is that, do we want to
be more restrictive and say we, at least related to residential, that we don't want to
develop flood-prone areas along Iowa River, Ralston Creek?
Davidson/ Um, this is of course the overall broad vision, and doesn't...from that overall
broad vision then there will be public policy initiatives that you will consider and
decide if you want to adopt or not that come out of this. Clearly, I think one of
the most significant and exciting parts of this plan are the opportunities to
redevelop, uh, and take advantage of the access of the river at the north
wastewater plant, uh, the, um, the City Carton area, and even some of the area
further to the north, all the way up to Burlington Street. Now, in doing that, we
want to take advantage of the access to the river, but be a little bit smarter about
it, leave some areas in green space that...that should be in green space, and then
figure out how to build in some, uh, flood protection measures so that if we, you
know, we want obviously the private sector to invest millions of dollars in these
redevelopment plans. We gotta make sure that that investment is protected
adequately. So, not all those questions, Amy, are answered in this plan, but the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 16
broad vision, I think, will lead to it being answered in the ultimate redevelopment
projects, and what we're asking you to do is either buy in or not, to that broad
redevelopment vision that is called out.
Bailey/ Okay. Other questions before tomorrow evening? And we'll have an opportunity
to discuss this a little bit more tomorrow night, so...
Davidson/ Yeah, you do have then, uh, resolution, it's adopted by resolution, so that is
also on your agenda for consideration tomorrow evening.
Wright/ And we just, having been to all of the workshops for the Central Planning
District, um, this document remarkably represents the workshops. It's really a
nice synthesis of that.
Davidson/ Yeah, I...I have to, uh, give all the credit to the Urban Planning Division in
terms of the actual production of the plan. I think...I think we got some new
software and, boy, it looks beautiful if you ask me. I think we've, uh, improved
each time we've done a district plan, and this one is certainly the pentacle right
now. Anything else on that?
b) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ARTICLE 14-SB,
SIGN REGULATIONS, ARTICLE 14-9C, SIGN DEFINITIONS,
SECTION 14-4B-1, MINOR MODIFICATIONS, AND ARTICLE
14-3C DESIGN REVIEW, TO ALLOW LIMITED USE OF
FREESTANDING SIGNS IN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS
SERVICE (CB-2) ZONE, ADD A DEFINITION AND
STANDARDS FOR ENTRANCEWAY SIGNS, AND CLARIFY
REGULATIONS REGARDING SIGNS ON RENTAL
PROPERTIES. (SECOND CONSIDERATION).
Davidson/ Item b then is, uh, modifications to the sign ordinance, uh, which you did pass
first consideration, uh, at your last meeting. Out of that meeting there were two
specific questions that you had, uh, about residential leasing company signs and
signs for home occupations. And those were addressed in a memorandum dated
October 15 from Karen Howard. I'm going to ask Karen and Jann Ream from the
Housing Inspections Services Department, uh, to come forward. They are the
sign ordinance gurus, and will be much better able to answer your questions than I
can. Um, but hopefully if there are any questions, uh, you could have Jann and
Karen address `em. They will not be here tomorrow night. So if you could have
your questions addressed tonight and then you'll have second consideration
tomorrow night.
Howard/ I guess we don't have a particular presentation to give. I did have that memo
that was in the...in your packet, but basically we're here to answer the
questions...we understand there was a number, quite a bit of discussion at your
meeting, and we wanted to clarify any issues that have come to light.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 17
Bailey/ Any questions, um, that arose from the memo? It was in the packet. I mean, we
are on second consideration of this ordinance. Some people wanted to make some
changes. Let's discuss some of...some of that tonight so...we don't have the
same kind of discussion that we had last time, which was difficult to follow at
best without a flow chart. So, where are we at with this? What?
Correia/ I'm comfortable with the resolution as it stands.
Champion/ I think I am too.
Bailey/ Okay.
Champion/ Even though I wanted to make some changes to it. The more I think about it,
the more simple it is the better it is.
Bailey/ Is that what you find through enforcement, that we've got something that's pretty
enforceable, that gets at some of the issues that we're...we were seeing in some of
the residential areas, and that these can be followed up easily now?
Ream/ I think it's very enforceable, and that was one of my concerns when we first
started drafting this amendment was that it would be something that could be
enforced. And I agree. I mean, when you start taking out one, maybe one
particular zone and you know you're trying to keep track of all that, to keep...to
keep the zone groups in what they are, in their group, um, I think it's very
enforceable.
Champion/ And the whole point was to meet the needs of the northside neighborhood,
about a complaint they had, and so my initial reaction was to go further, but now
I'm just willing to leave it at that.
Bailey/ And I'm certain if there are problems that we'll hear about them, or if we notice
problems, we can come back and revisit this and...and be very specific about
what it is that we see that we'd like to address.
Champion/ Exactly!
Bailey/ And I think that that's what the, the neighbors did and I think that...moving
forward with this. Do you have any questions? Okay. So, we're all good to
move forward with this. Okay.
O'Donnell/ I'm not certain on the time period.
Hayek/ Oh, yeah, sorry.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 18
O'Donnell/ April 1St, uh, an excellent point brought up tonight that, um, that maybe, may
not be enough time, or maybe that's the wrong time. How did we arrive at April
I Ste
Howard/ I think what we took was, this was afour-month period, and it was considered a
considerable part of the year. These were supposed to be temporary yard signs
basically, or window signs, uh, when you have a unit for rent in the building.
Um, that would be in addition to if they were allowed to have these leasing
company signs on the larger buildings, they of course would have those signs,
plus they can have a yard sign out when...when they have a particular unit for
rent in...in the building. They can also have an identification sign on the building
that has the name of the building. So all those elements together are their signage
allowance, but the four-month period was thought of as...a considerable amount
of time to have a leasing sign out. Now whether that's the right period of time,
that was the general consensus of staff, and the Planning & Zoning Commission,
um, it certainly could be a different period of time, or it could be a split period of
time, if there's a particular time period that's more important to have signs out,
um...
Ream/ I think the one thing to remember in terms of enforcement is that this will
generally be enforced by complaint, so by the time our office would receive a
complaint, that sign would have probably already been out for several weeks, if
not several months already, so by the time enforcement catches up with it, I think
it would actually have been out for a much greater period than four months
anyway.
Correia/ Well, and L..for me, in my consideration is we have a pretty tight housing
market. We have a low vacancy rate, lower than national average, and lower
than...be a healthy market. So, I don't think by and large have a terribly difficult
time finding tenants to rent their open units, and I'm also not sure how often
students if that's the primary market are driving around neighborhoods for a place
to live. They're looking online, you know, the University has many, many, um,
housing clearing house sites, they're looking in the paper, there's lots of other
ways, primarily that I think people generally look for a place to live -word of
mouth, you know, the web, the paper, and then you know if they happen to see
something, um...concerned about the signs.
Bailey/ Yeah, one would be lead to believe that this is the only advertising method that
they use, and I think that that's...well, if it is, it's foolish, and I think it's probably
inaccurate.
Wright/ Well, even so, uh, if a sign goes up in a yard because a property has come for
lease, it's going to be available, uh, they generally lease quickly and that sign's
going to come down quickly.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 19
Hayek/ I'm okay with sticking with the proposed eight units and up, um, in terms of
permanent signs, but you can't deny that that does create an issue of fairness for
the landlords of small structures, of fewer than eight units, um, because
effectively the large places have afor-rent sign in the form of a reference to the
company, um, year round and um, I think a lot of those smaller structures,
especially the ones in the neighborhoods, um, people don't, um, renters don't find
through the Internet, but rather by driving around or walking around the
neighborhoods they want to live in and looking for homes that look appealing,
and I don't want to disadvantage those landlords because they're providing a
critical service, and...I just think the market is such that, and the reality is such,
that an April 1 start date for being able to list, uh, or place a temporary sign in
one's yard is not really realistic, and I think if we could push that toward, in the
direction of January 1St, uh, some reasonable distance, that would be much better
for those landlords, and would solve some of those fairness issues that I have
concerns with.
Champion/ So you want to...they can put a sign up for six months, is that what you're
saying, or...
Wright/ Once the place is leased, the sign has to come down.
Champion/ Yeah.
Hayek/ Mean is they can place a temporary sign in the yard, um, earlier. Oh, Connie's
the one not getting recorded. Um, you're bad - I'm not. Uh, it means they could
put a temporary sign out, uh, earlier than April 1, assuming a standard August 1
turnover, which most rental units go under. And then they have to take it down as
soon as it gets rented.
Champion/ Well I don't object to that.
Hayek/ That would be the one thing I would...I would raise.
Bailey/ But how does that, okay, so that could for all practical purposes be up for more
than four months, and it doesn't really get at what the neighborhood...there's sign
clutter and in...on the northside, if we have a proliferation of these kinds of signs,
it also signals a high level of rental units, and that can be concerning.
Wright/ But what it does say though, the proposal says that the signs must be removed
within 48 hours after the property, building, or unit within a building is sold or
leased. So you're not going to have signs up for six months.
Bailey/ Right. See, I don't have a problem with the landlord determining that it can't be
up for more than X number, so if it goes up in January, I mean, if you're not
renting January through whatever, four months, April and then you have to find
another way to advertise. I don't know, but I wouldn't want...I'm assuming they
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 20
rent very quickly, but I wouldn't want to see those signs out for months and
months and months. Almost as if they were permanent signs.
Hayek/ Well, if they were up for months and months and months, it would be an
indication of a...a housing glut, which I don't think it is right now. We want
these units leased up. I mean, we want them occupied. (several talking)
Ream/ I think one of the points with the sign ordinance as it is now is it's difficult to
enforce and so it's difficult for the Housing Inspection Services Department to
know exactly when a unit is leased, and we have that in there as being within 48
hours of being leased, so then the mechanism to get down a sign that somebody
may want to be fairly permanent sign in their yard. And that's what's happened
to the signs on the buildings, they're supposed to be temporary signs but they've
evolved into more permanent signs because they like to have that up year-round,
and so then it's difficult for Housing Inspection Services to know exactly when
units have been leased in the building and when they're available, and if
there's...that's why, whether or not it's a good...good number of months at least
we know that the leasing period is August 15`. We know how to count backwards,
and if the signs are up, whether that's the right amount of time...but it just makes
it a little more enforceable. So I'm not sure what the right solution is, but that has
been the complaint, is that it's difficult to enforce the way we have it written now.
Correia/ Well, and it seems like those places have been rented for years, if they're rentals,
before we've had these permanent signs.
Bailey/ ...through word of mouth.
Correia/ Because we have such a tight housing market, and low vacancy rates, the
likelihood is that they will get rented, um, and so I'm not (several talking) but I
am concerned about the neighborhood.
Wright/ And actually the vast majority of these signs aren't advertising that that
property's for rent. It's just plain advertising, and that's what we're trying to
control, advertising and sign clutter.
O'Donnell/ That was my understanding, and I thought the purpose was to prevent a
building from becoming a billboard, and uh, you know, I...it also is a fairness
issue with me. I...I want the person with the four...or six-plex...six-plex to have
the same ability and advantages as the guy with the 40 units.
Wright/ And why not a duplex? And why not a sign for everybody? We have to draw
the line someplace.
O'Donnell/ I don't want to draw the line if it's a fairness issue. You know, you pay taxes
in this house...in this town, and it's uh, you know, it's dependent on being rented.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 21
Wright/ Always going to be a fairness issue for somebody. That's why I say we
just...there has to be, at some point we have to figure out where the balance is
going to fall.
O'Donnell/ And that's what we're trying to do now.
Champion/ But that'd be in a different residential...that'd be...those eight-plexes aren't
in northside, are they? I mean.. .
Wright/ There are some (several talking) there's some large apartment buildings.
Bailey/ Okay, five minutes ago we had most people say that they were comfortable with
this (several commenting). Okay!
Hayek/ Well, I'll push tomorrow night for a...an earlier start date for those temporary
signs, but I'm okay...yeah. (several talking)
Bailey/ So, any other bits of...okay. All right. Thank you. Should we do number 9?
Can you also speak to Item number 9? I had a question on that. Let's just do that
now. Item number 9 on the agenda is this, uh, consider a resolution denying the
exterior design. Since we have them here, um, we can get the explanation for this
because I'm sure there are...I had questions (several talking).
ITEM 9. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DENYING THE EXTERIOR
.DESIGN OF SLUMBERLAND FURNITURE, PEPPERWOOD
PLAZA.
Ream/ Um, first of all, I apologize for not getting a memo out to you to explain this
resolution. We got the final plans Wednesday, right before lunch, and trying to
get the resolution, trying to get you copies to the plans, and everything, um, didn't
get the explanation to you. So, that's why we're here tonight. Um, basically what
we have, uh, we have a mandate on the Design Review Committee to review
(coughing, unable to hear) types of projects, um, some...one type of project is our
TIF projects, and a TIF project could either be held to just the general design
review standards, or there could be specific things written into the TIF agreement,
in terms of design, and that is the case here, that there was some very specific
things written into the TIF agreement, in terms of design, um, and...if you'd like
you could pass these around so that you can take a look at those. Um, what we
found was that when the original redevelopment agreement was signed, um, there
were:..very specific design plans in the TIF agreement goals, plus there
were...there were actual plans submitted that Council looked at and approved,
and what you see above, that line drawing, was the original elevation that was
approved with the original TIF agreement. What was submitted to us is this plan
for a new entrance for Slumberland, and we really did struggle with this. As we
look at the design itself, it has many good points, um, it emphasizes the new
entrance for Slumberland, which is very much needed, um, it, um, as you look at
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 22
it, it's not a displeasing plan. Unfortunately, we didn't feel that it met the original
design concept for that part of Pepperwood Plaza, and that there were specific
things in the TIF agreement that it didn't meet. Um, if you're familiar with
Pepperwood Plaza, you'll know that, um, you're familiar with those very large
pylons, color...there's agroup of red ones and blue ones and purple ones, um,
that...they're proposing to remove and replace with these series of planters, um,
and one of the things in the TIF agreement that was very specific was a presence
from Highway 6, both through architectural features and color. And, so the
original concept included those pylons with a color scheme of the gray metal,
glass, black, and red as...with the red pylons and the blue pylons. Um, the
Slumberland, um, it is a corporate identity for them - we do understand that, um,
the color is kind of a earth-toney subdued sandstone burgundy, um, it really does
not match any of the other colors used on that particular building. We do
understand that there are two fairly new stand-alone buildings in Pepperwood that
have more earth tones, but those are stand-alone buildings. We really felt that this
design was not compatible with the existing redeveloped Pepperwood Plaza.
Again, we're not saying it's a bad design. We're just saying that it's not
compatible. It doesn't meet design review standards. And the original TIF
agreement. We as the Design Review Committee did not feel that we had the
authority to override the original TIF agreement. Um, if Pepperwood felt that
they wanted to update the design, that they felt that the original design that was
approved was outdated, um, they could certainly go back and amend their TIF
agreement.
Champion/ Well, I can understand why someone wants their logo...there's another name
for that, their usual...
Ream/ Yeah, it's a corporate standard, right.
Champion/ Yes, because then it's recognized from the highway and people might go in
there because they recognize that. I think that's important to their, to their
business. They've spent a lot of time, energy, and money to develop this, and
they want people to be able to see it and know that...you know, without even
reading it that it's a Slumberland. So I...I hope there's some way we can find a
way to help them be successful by letting them keep that. I don't know if they
have to go back and change the TIF agreement or what.
Bailey/ Well, I suppose if that's our interest, that that's the direction we should consider
going, sending this to the Economic Development Committee and then to, uh,
look at the TIF agreement and then bring in a recommendation to Council, would
seem to be the step, and...
Correia/ I would say, I know the pylons you're talking about, and I don't know if I've
noticed them from Highway 6, but I think I noticed them when I'm going into the
building and I'm like, oh, wow, there's these really big pylons. What's that about
kind of a thing (laughter) and um, and I mean, I do agree. I think with the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 23
national...a national chain with a brand that those types of things tend to be
noticed, um, especially because of the scope of it, um, so I guess I don't know
what year was that original TIF agreement entered into?
Bailey/ 2000 and...
Howard/ 2003.
Correia/ 2003...'cause that's before...I mean, it's not a terribly long time ago, um, but I
think that the business, those main businesses that are in that strip portion have
changed, um, so I mean it would make sense to review the original TIF agreement
to...
Wright/ Yeah, it might be time to update the design standard of that.
Correia/ Yeah, update the design standard, to make it as successful as...
Ream/ And again, I mean that's...and that's exactly why we're...that's the whole point -
is that, I mean, we don't have, we as a staff Design Review Committee do not
have that authority to do that.
Correia/ You're working under the current policies.
Ream/ Right.
Dilkes/ Does the code require, um, a recommendation by the Design Committee to
Council, and Council approval?
Ream/ Right.
Dilkes/ Not design, uh, not the staff approval?
Ream/ In this case it's just a recommendation from Design Review Committee.
Dilkes/ So, it seems to me there's another option here, and that is...because, for Council
to conclude, notwithstanding the recommendation of Design Review, that the
design criteria of the TIF agreement had been satisfied.
Ream/ Our only concern is as the Design Review Committee then is that the next
building that comes along and the next change, our ability to be able to have
something to review it against. We like to have something, you know, some
guidelines to review new development plans and if...if the whole idea is to
change the scheme here from this, uh, glass and metal, bright red and gray
building to a more earth tone with efface, um, design scheme for the whole
building, it'd be nice to have that in place so that, you know, in the next
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 24
redevelopment in this...in this shopping center we have...we have that ability to
not bring forward another denial to you for the same reason.
Champion/ When does this TIF end? Do you know?
Bailey/ You'll have to come up here, Wendy. Use the mic.
Ford/ This is, uh, a seven-year TIF and there have been two rebates of the seven so far.
Wilburn/ Process wise...it would, along the lines of what you were just saying, before the
Council in terms of decisions when the next thing comes forward would be to
have a process review of the...of the TIF design review, so that it's not an
arbitrary, um, so the Council is not faced with one, uh, for one business, uh, will
grant an exception for another we won't. If there's more of a.. .
Dilkes/ I'm not suggesting that Council arbitrarily...approve it for this business and not
the next. What I'm saying is along the lines of Amy's questions, these criteria
here, I mean, people of reasonable minds may differ about whether that criteria is
satisfied or not, so I just want the Council to be clear that if the Council disagreed
with the conclusion of the staff review committee, then you're free to approve it,
if you believe this criteria is satisfied.
Wilburn/ I guess what I'm...I wasn't suggesting that you were saying that. I'm...what
I'm thinking more along the lines was, it would make sense to me to have like
Economic Development Committee review it, looking at...and if it's the
Economic Development Committee's sense, the Council has the power, the
authority, to make that decision or exemption, it would be, uh, helpful to have that
committee wrestle with it, make their recommendation to full Council, and then
the Council takes the vote. That's just forme that's what would.. .
Dilkes/ I think that's a fine process. I just want everybody to be aware that it could go a
different way.
Correial So, could we have a parallel process, I mean, given that Slumberland has been in
this location for a while...now, um, and we have a plan, could we approve this, I
mean, looking at, you know, the criteria...just on this, I mean, it...could we do,
could we approve this, as well as say Economic Development Committee can you
update the design of this TIF property to be ongoing, to be compatible with this
major chain of a...
Dilkes/ The amendment of the TIF agreement takes two parties to amend a TIF
agreement. So, I don't think...I think you're going to have to have, if the Council
chooses to go with that option to grant the approval, you're going to have to
understand exactly what each of these criteria mean, why Design Review didn't
think it was met, why you think it is met, and...and...and accept that conclusion,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 25
and if the developer thinks that...and down the road this meets this criteria, then
they may not have the incentive to change the TIF agreement.
Wright/ The other thing I think we ought to remember too, we just finished a whole
drawn out process with Wal-Mart and a lot of that dealt with the aesthetics of
their building and the facades, and there's no reason we have to accept that
specific facade, is there? As Slumberland, well...
Bailey/ Well, no, that's what we're...
Wright/ ...what else have you done?
Bailey/ Right.
Wright/ What other...what other types of facades do you have? I'm sure their buildings
aren't all completely monolithic.
Howard/ Um, actually we've had discussions with Slumberland. We've had many
meetings with both the developer, we've really tried to work this out before it got
to this point, um, our last meeting with Slumberland really gave us the impression
that Slumberland had nothing else to offer us.
Hayek/ When you say that, is it your impression that the applicant is, um, willing to take
its chances with Council reaching a different interpretation of the...of this, these
specific, um, design standards? Is that...
Howard/ I don't know. I...I guess I can't speak to that.
Ream/ I'm not sure what...can you say your question again, Matt?
Hayek/ Well, I mean, is...is Southgate, and we can hear from the applicant at some point,
whether it's tonight or tomorrow, but, um, I mean, do they reach a different
conclusion. Do they say that the design standards imbedded in the TIF agreement
applied to this proposal, um, are met, versus the interpretation coming from the
City that they are not?
Ream/ Yeah, the way we came to our determination was that the wording that you see in
front of you, plus the site plan and the building elevations that were originally
submitted, and...and those two pieces together, I mean, we have very specific
things that were mentioned in this elevation about using the bright red and the
metal panels, and so that's kind of where we had our...our problem, but, uh, we
had a discussion with Southgate and with Slumberland, and we told them very
clearly maybe this is a path. We don't think this is a bad path to take, if you want
to amend your design of your development, we don't feel like we have the
authority to do that, but we can bring this forward, say that there's some good
elements to this, uh, we don't disagree with you that there's some good elements
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 26
to this, uh, but this is a path forward then that you can take, um, without us having
to...to, uh, go beyond what we thought was our authority to make a change to the
TIF.
O'Donnell/ Is this a natural...a national color also for Slumberland, as well as the logo,
the sign?
Ream/ You'd have to ask Slumberland. What we've seen is a more earth tone, peachy
sort of, and burgundy reddish color, versus a bright red, kind of what we have out
there now.
O'Donnell/ So our steps to turn this to our Economic Development Committee, is that
what I'm hearing?
Bailey/ Well, okay, so we have a resolution here that if we vote "yes"...if you vote "yes"
tomorrow night you're denying this exterior design, but um, there could be a
recommendation that this goes to the Economic Development Committee to
wrestle with the changes. I just also wanted to clarify the language of this
resolution so you know when you vote "yes" what you're...hopefully voting to
deny it. Um...(several talking)
Correia/ I thought the Economic Development Committee wouldn't be clarifying the
resolution. I thought that would be if we were interested in renegotiating the TIF.
Bailey/ Yes.
Correia/ That's different than clarifying the resolution?
Dilkes/ You could defer the resolution.
Bailey/ We could defer the resolution. That's always an option, um, or we could monkey
with it on the floor, which is always messy. (laughter) That's been my
experience.
O'Donnell/ Is this time sensitive?
Bailey/ I would imagine its relatively time sensitive.
Howard/ It is, um, the original application came in, uh, towards the end of August. They
are very anxious to get started with it. Um, you know, they're...yes, it is time
sensitive.
Correia/ So we could also determine that we think it meets the first page that you handed
out, that we think...individuals of us think that...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 27
Howard/ It also has to meet the second page, which are the general design review
guidelines, and that's where we get into the issues of it needing to be compatible
with the existing development, or the other language in it says it is setting the new
standard. One of those two things.
Lombardo/ Have you asked that question specifically of the developer, in terms of
whether or not this is going to set the new standard or...
Howard/ Yes.
Lombardo/ And what was the response?
Howard/ The response was they were reluctant to say that, because of, um, the expense
that might be involved in trying to bring along the whole development. They
certainly didn't have any plans at this time to try and do that. But I think they
would be open as new tenants came in. I'm, and they did on their final...and one
of the reasons this has taken so long is...the initial application, we asked for
clarification or changes, it takes them a while to get stuff back to us, and we had
two separate submissions where we, there was really no change at all in what they
submitted back to us. This time they were starting to bring some of the other
colors down on the concrete posts, for the first time, that indicated to me they
were willing to look at this than more of an overall change in the whole design
standard. Um, but again, the...that's really a question more, uh, applicable to...
Lombardo/ And the changes here constitute about how much of the overall site? How
much does this encompass (mumbled)?
Howard/ The...fifth, maybe a little less than a fifth.
Bailey/ Any questions, other questions for Jann or for Karen while they're here? They
will not be here tomorrow night. So...okay, are we kind of clear on our, or are we
clear on our options? (several responding) Okay, thanks. Um, let's talk about
the Sheraton agreement. This is agenda item 10.
Sheraton Agreement:
ITEM 10. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING AND AUTHORIZING
THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN
AGREEMENT FOR WALKWAY IMPROVEMENTS AND
FUTURE LICENSE UPON A PEDESTRIAN ACCESS EASEMENT
LOCATED AT 210 SOUTH DUBUQUE STREET, IOWA CITY,
IOWA. (DEFERRED FROM 10/6).
Ford: Hi. At your, uh, last Council meeting you were considering an agreement,
uh, for the hotel that included a partial vacation of the interior easement to
facilitate lobby improvements at the Sheraton. Also included in that agreement
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 28
was acost-shared, uh, project to enhance the exterior walkway between the hotel
and Martini's, and finally with those complete, the allowance for the hotel to
secure and lock off the, uh, interior easement from 11:00 P.M. to 6:00 A.M. That
item was deferred at your last meeting, after a discussion of the possibility of
striking a license agreement for the use of, instead of a partial vacation, of the
interior hotel easement. So the Economic Development Committee met last
Monday with the hotel representatives and discussed the possible terms of license
agreements, instead of a partial vacation, for that interior easement. And after the
meeting, uh, not at the meeting but after the meeting eventually there was
consensus among the Committee Members about the terms of the agreement that I
believe you have in front of you now. I think that was distributed...no? Huh, oh,
well.. .
Dilkes/ That agreement is still being negotiated. There has not been...there has not been
an agreement as to terms. We sent the Sheraton a proposed draft on Thursday,
and suggested that we would like to hand it out to you tonight, and we heard from
their attorney late this afternoon, and as one might expect, we're having some
difficulty defining what redevelopment means.
Bailey/ Okay.
Ford/ Essentially, uh, if we can get through the definition of redevelopment, the terms
would be such that the City would have the opportunity to re-occupy that, uh
interior easement space in the event of a change of use in the hotel, or
redevelopment of the hotel. Um, the other points in the agreement remained as
they, uh, were and the Economic Development Committee, at least by phone,
unanimously, uh, supported this.
Dilkes/ My understand...Sarah Holecek in my office has been talking to the Sheraton's
attorney, and my understanding is there is no, um, we've got a change of use
definition that's essentially anything other than a hotel. Um, the redevelopment,
we, um, it's...I mean, I think it's going to be worked out. It's just a question of
how much destruction, uh, over rebuilding, over what period of time, those kinds
of things that we're going to have to get in a definition that's acceptable to both
staff and, uh, the Sheraton.
Bailey/ So you'll let us know tomorrow night if we have the signed agreement, and we'll
go from there. Okay. Questions?
Correia/ I'm more supportive of the lease agreement, um, I...and I would be, I could live
with shrinking the size of the walkway, indoor walkway, um, but I can't support
closing it between 11:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M. Um, I just, I wouldn't want to walk
at night, even in a redeveloped, outdoor walkway. I think all of the businesses
downtown are impacted by the culture of downtown, at specific times, and I'm
not sure why the Sheraton should be exempt from that. I think it is safer for
people to walk indoors because there's always somebody there. In fact it creates
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 29
an opportunity for people to find safety at all hours because it is a 24-hour lobby,
um, and so if the...the agreement continues...has the closing from 11:00 P.M. to
6:00 A.M. then I won't be supporting it.
Bailey/ It does.
Hayek/ Amy, um, the...the Economic Development Council had the benefit when we
went through this of seeing some concept drawings from the architects, as they
related to the outdoor walkway, which right now is fairly dark and hasn't been
improved in many years, and those drawings show a greatly improved walkway -
better lighting and arguably, uh, a more, a safer environment at the end of that
process. Would seeing that impact your view on this issue at all?
Correia/ I appreciate that, um, but I...I...unless the walkway were to include security
cameras between 11:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M. that the Sheraton would be
monitoring, because they're open during that period of time, to be able to monitor
for safety. I mean, we had a Violence Against Women Task Force that
specifically was talking about safety in all parts of our city at night. I think
the...what the problems that occur downtown are impact...I mean, it's the impact
of the downtown of the downtown culture late at night that many businesses
complain about what they have to go through, what they have to clean out of their
walkway, what they have to do to create safe environments in their business way,
um, and so I...the Sheraton, you know, we have allowed use of public right-of-
way for many years, to the benefit of the city absolutely. I think what they're
wanting to do is absolutely wonderful for downtown, um, but you know, and I
talked to people, you know, people in business, why don't your business visitors
stay at the Sheraton. I don't hear because it's so noisy in the lobby. I hear that
it's, you know, deferred maintenance, the rooms aren't as nice as rooms in newer
hotels, and so I think that the renovations that are being proposed of the inside and
the outside, and expanding their lobby are going to give us the benefit that we
want, um, and so I don't believe sacrificing safety of the public downtown late at
night when, um, unfortunate things may happen. I...I would not want to
participate in that (coughing, unable to hear).
Bailey/ Any other...
Wright/ Is there any, uh, can't think of the word I want...but any...not even negotiation,
but are there going to be any security cameras outdoors that'll be monitored?
Bailey/ We didn't discuss that.
Wright/ That's...that's about the only way I can support...
Ford/ Well, we would be partners in the redesign and enhancement of that (noise on mic
and several talking). Yeah, equal...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 30
Correia/ I don't want to pay for it!
Wright/ I don't think we should pay for it.
Correia/ Or monitor it, I mean, if...so that would be, and so I'm not sure that, you know,
I'm not sure.
Bailey/ Okay.
O'Donnell/ You know, I really think that walking down College Street would present
more of a challenge at night than walking through this little short hallway. I
really...I think it's darker.
Bailey/ Well, we can discuss, I mean, we can go back and forth on this...we'll have
the...if we have something signed, we'll have it in front, but I just want to be
clear that that timeframe is still in the agreement. I mean, that was important to
the Sheraton and the Economic Development Committee saw the importance of
that, given that that's not uncommon from many hotels. I stayed in Decorah and
they locked their doors at 11:00 for their hotel downtown, for safety reasons, in
Decorah.
Champion/ Well, I think, hopefully, the Sheraton will have a picture or a PowerPoint that
people...good...that can show you this new walkway, because it is very inviting
and it did sway my opinion also. So, uh, hopefully we'll all see that tomorrow
night and see that it is going to be greatly enhanced. The security cameras could
be part of the design of the, um, of the new walkway, uh, but I think the
PowerPoint will relieve a lot of the anxiety.
Bailey/ But at this point, I think we don't know that the security cameras...so if that's a
deal breaker for you, I mean, that wasn't...
Dilkes/ The plans and specs have to be approved by the City Council, so...
Bailey/ ...another opportunity. Okay. (noise on mic)
Hayek/ Amy and Mike, you're the ones, and maybe others too, but thus far it seems like
you folks are the two....are anticipating not supporting this. Is it limited to this
safety issue, or the hours issue? Or are there other...other grounds on which you
don't think you could support this?
Wright/ I think the biggest stumbling block for me is the safety issue, and I just...I don't
see how you can make the walkway as safe as walking down a street, or walking
through that passageway.
Champion/ Well, according to the (can't hear) stuff in the passageway, I'm not so sure
it's safe to walk through either.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 31
Correia/ Well, and certainly businesses also employ security personnel during, you know,
times when they need security personnel. I mean that's another option that the
Sheraton would have on those nights when there's a lot of problems in the lobby,
they could hire security to monitor that. Probably cheaper than enhancing a
walkway (laughter) over time if it's just...
Wilburn/ Even if security personnel were not hired, or are not hired now, if there is some
type of altercation going on, um, and there's a business and people can see it, it's
more likely that someone is going to pick up the phone and call the police and
say, hey, there's something going on out here, because they're witnessing it, and
it is going to disrupt their business, as opposed to the walkway where, you know,
there is less likely to be a presence there to do something. So...just a comment.
Bailey/ All right.
Wright/ I'm fine with reducing the width of the walkway to 12-feet. I think that will do a
lot of reduce the tendency people have to congregate in there, but.. .
Bailey/ Any other questions for Wendy. Wendy, will you be here tomorrow night?
Ford/ Uh-huh.
Bailey/ Okay, so if you have other questions, Wendy will be here tomorrow night, and
representatives from the Sheraton will be here tomorrow night and probably show
some indication of what that walkway concept might look like, and um, can talk a
little bit more about this tomorrow. Okay. All right. Thanks, Wendy.
Agenda Items:
ITEM 8. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 6, ENTITLED
"PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY," CHAPTER 10, ENTITLED,
"SMOKEFREE PLACES," TO CORRECT THE DIAGRAM THAT
ILLUSTRATES WHERE SMOHING IS PROHIBITED IN CITY
PLAZA. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Bailey/ Uh, keep moving. Council appointments, we have none. So...um (several
commenting) and then Agenda Items. I just wanted to note on agenda Item 8 that
staff has recommended expedited action on that particular one. That's the, um,
amended, uh, smoke-free places downtown, so if somebody could make a note of
that. Any questions about agenda items? It's a pretty short agenda, but...we've
covered quite a few of `em.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 32
ITEM 14. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A PURCHASE
AGREEMENT FOR APPROXIMATELY 173 ACRES OF LAND
LOCATED AT 4748 420TH STREET SOUTHEAST, IOWA CITY,
JOHNSON COUNTY, IOWA.
Correia/ I just had a quick question about, I know this was just...Item 14, approving the
purchase of the land for...industrial use. In the short description, or maybe in
the...(several talking)...um, it talks about resale of the land, um, has there been
discussions about other avenues for, you know in terms of land lease, city being a
more active partner in industrial development (mumbled)
Lombardo/ We did discuss it as part of meeting and all generally felt that, um, being in
the...in property management arena is not something as a municipal organization
we wanted to recommend. Um, we're not staffed to do that to a great extent
beyond housing and some other things we do now, um, our general
recommendation is that we flip this and get it back on the tax rolls. Um, and use
that to leverage other projects in the future perhaps, but not to...
Bailey/ And this is just the purchase of it. So...
Wright/ Gives us control over the development.
Bailey/ So we can (mumbled) the development, and...(mumbled). Okay, other agenda
items?
Wilburn/ Back to the modification of the smoking item, um, just want to...yeah. For
information for the Council, part of the concept behind the...the original ban was
to, uh, there was a question about enforcement and there was, uh, examples of, uh,
an empowered public, if the ban were in place, uh, the public stepping forward to
say something, and I witnessed at Mercer, uh, ball diamonds two separate
incidents of someone smoking near a dugout, and the public reminding them that
there was no smoking. And those folks complied.
Bailey/ Okay. Other agenda items?
ITEM 13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION FINDING THE NECESSITY TO
INSTITUTE EMERGENCY PROCEEDINGS, AND APPROVING
THE WORK OF THE REPAIR PROJECT FOR THE IOWA RIVER
SANITARY SEWER CROSSING AT IOWA AVENUE.
Hayek/ Uh, regarding 13, the resolution to, uh, take care of the repair work needed at the
sanitary sewer crossing.
Bailey/ I think we had a handout tonight, too, regarding that.
Hayek/ Uh...I didn't see that...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 33
Bailey/ I think it was just an engineer's memo, right? Certificate of Necessity.
Hayek/ Yeah, let me look at that.
Lombardo/ Did you have a specific question, Matt?
Hayek/ Well, my question is this - I mean, do we have...is there a rough cost estimate?
Is there a protocol we follow in terms of notifying potential bidders, for lack of a
better word? Just more out of curiosity than anything else.
Lombardo/ Rough costs...it's been several weeks since I discussed this with staff, are in
the million dollar plus range, um, reimbursable through FEMA, uh, at 90% as a
public, um, assistance project. Um, in terms of the notification, I'd have to ask
staff and I can be prepared to provide that information tomorrow night, in terms
of the notification for bids and all, um, and an expedited process - I don't know
what has been used here. Perhaps, um...
Bailey/ What is the legal requirement for expedited process?
Dilkes/ Well, what...what you're doing tomorrow, because you've got the certificate that
it is an emergency from someone outside the City, you have the authority to
bypass the public bidding requirements, completely.
Bailey/ Okay.
Dilkes/ So, no, uh, no public hearing in front of Council on the plans and specs. No City
Council approval. Um, I have not talked to Ron Knoche specifically as to what
his plans are for, um, getting bids on an expedited process. We have several ways
in place that we could do that. For instance, we get, um, competitive quotations
on some of our lower projects. Our purchasing department is often soliciting
bids, so there's a number of ways that they can do that.
Hayek/ I just want to make sure that if we're going to bypass this statutory requirement
that we've...that we're going forward with as reasonable, uh, competitive bidding
approach as we can, given the circumstances, which I'm sure we're going to do,
but.. .
Lombardo/ I'll investigate and provide more information for you tomorrow.
Bailey/ This is really new to us.
Lombardo/ Right.
Bailey/ And so...that probably would be helpful for all of us.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 34
Hayek/ Great. Thanks. That's all I have.
Info Packet Discussion (October 9 and 16):
Bailey/ Okay. Any other agenda items? Okay. I'm moving along. Info Packet
discussion, items from info packets, um, from the October 9th or...and 16th...any
items you want to bring forward, beyond those that we're going to discuss later?
Okay, hearing...okay, go ahead, Amy.
Correia/ Sorry.
Bailey/ That's okay! I know.
Correia/ So...the, uh, memorandum, IP7 from October 16, the single-stream and multi-
family housing (mumbled) um, have we can we get information on, there are
other cities in Iowa that do the multi-family recycling (mumbled). Dubuque does
it, um, I mean, I understand wanting to move towards increasing single-family
housing recycling. I just know we've had requests from folks that live in multi-
family housing, you know, it's a pretty significant housing stock in our city that
want multi-family housing recycling.
Bailey/ This has come up before. Are there...are there four people who would be
interested in getting Jen here to have a discussion about multi-family recycling?
We've...we've talked about this before and...and...
Champion/ Many times.
Wright/ And we've had letters...
Correia/ I guess I'd like to have her come back with (several talking) specific examples
of cities in Iowa that do it and what it costs and what the results are...for their
landfill or whatever, however they benchmark the success rate of it.
Bailey/ Okay, so do we have four who would be interested in having a further discussion
of this (several responding).
Hayek/ In fact I think her memo said something like an astounding 40% of our
population lives in multi-family. (several talking)
Champion/ If we could just recycle pizza boxes (laughter).
Bailey/ I know!
Lombardo/ And...and let me just, just wanted to make sure that staff are prepared. The
desire is to perhaps move forward with something. You just want additional
information.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 35
Bailey/ We want a...I, I'm going to go out on a limb. We want examples, but this group
has been interested in implementing multi-family recycling in Iowa City for I can
safety say at least five years, since I got on Council.
Lombardo/ You want a strategy for... for actually getting you there.
Bailey/ Yes. (several responding)
Lombardo/ We can do that.
Bailey/ Is that an accurate assessment? I mean, obviously we're going to look at cost.
Obviously we're going to weigh this very carefully, but it seems to me we've
been talking about this for five years.
Correia/ So, and I guess from, I mean, it seems like what I...one of the messages that I
got from her memo was that, you know, we could go into single-stream right now
and concentrate on single-family, or multi, not necessarily both at the same time
because of the amount of work it would take to do both at the same time.
Bailey/ Right.
Correia/ And so I'm interested if we then needed to chose, I would say I'm interested in
the multi, you know, in getting the multi-family sector on board, and then...
Lombardo/ Say that again.
Bailey/ What else, I mean, what other clarifications would be helpful?
Lombardo/ No, I understand what you're interested in and we'll...we'll work to develop
that. On the multi-family housing, um, I'll talk to them about what additional
work would have to be done to come forward with a proposal.
Bailey/ And it seems to suggest in this memo that single-stream lays the groundwork for
multi-family, and so if so, what then is the timeline, and when do we...I mean,
if...if that's the professional recommendation, which I wouldn't know, so that
seems to make sense, then what is our timeline looking like and how...how
quickly can we get there.
Lombardo/ Yeah. We can...we can work that out and, uh, bring that before you.
Bailey/ Any other questions that staff should have, get them to Michael so he can...so
they're adequately prepared for a good discussion.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 36
Champion/ I just have a quick question about this. If multi-family is picked up by private
haulers, which it is, can we insist that private haulers also provide a recycling bin?
Or dumpster, whatever you want to call it.
Lombardo/ What I'd rather do, I mean, we could speculate, um, but identify based on our
current ordinances what we can do, uh, what would have to change, come forward
with options for moving forward, and then have a discussion around those
options, and you can pick and chose what seems attractive.
Bailey/ Okay. Great. All right, other info packet, um, items? Okay, any comments or
follow up, um, from the memorandum on affordable housing market analysis? I
thought it adequately summarized our discussion. Okay. Let's take aten-minute
break before we go into the alcohol discussion, and um, prepare yourselves.
(laughter)
Underage and Over Consumption of Alcohol -Review of Strategies:
Bailey/ Okay, underage and over consumption of alcohol, a review of strategies. Eleanor
provided us a memo. Before we get started I just want to remind all of us that at
our Council retreat we did talk about getting off the gerbil wheel of discussion
about this particular issue. So, I look forward to actually, this discussion taking a
different direction than we've taken before. And you can help us do that, Eleanor.
Dilkes/ Okay. We have the memo, um, and I posed the questions at the end, uh, and we
can skip to those questions or I can kind of just run through each strategy, just so
(mumbled) ask any questions you might have about each one. Which would you
prefer?
Wilburn/ I think for the purposes of the audience that we have here, uh, regardless of...I
believe some may and some may have not read the memo, that it would be helpful
just for a quick run through, for historical purposes.
Bailey/ I agree.
Dilkes/ All right, um, and just to refresh your memory, um, what I did was in the year
2000, um, the Council spent a lot of time looking at the problems with underage
and over consumption of alcohol. LTh, there were...they received input from a
number of sources, including the public, um, students, um, bar owners, and we
developed a list of those proposals, and I just did a quick, in 2000, did a quick yes
I think you can do this; no we need to do some more research; no you can't do
this; etc., and I've given you that memo and so what I did with this memo is just,
um, start with that memo back in 2000 and tell you what's happened with each of
those proposals since that time, to try and get us to the present. Um, as well as
give you some additional things that have been done at the city, anyway. So the
under-21 restriction, as most people know, um, that was debated pretty heavily
prior to 2003 when the City Council adopted a "under 19" ordinance, prohibiting
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 37
persons under the age of 19 from being on the premises of a licensed
establishment whose primary business is alcohol, um, after 10:00 P.M. Um, and
there's a provision in that ordinance which allows a business with a liquor license
to establish that more than 50% of its gross sales are from something other than
alcohol and then they can get an exception to that ordinance. Um, as you know,
there was a citizen initiative in 2007, um, which would have changed that
ordinance to make it under 21, instead of under 19, um, it failed at the ballot.
There cannot be another substantially similar initiative for two years, although
Council does have the authority to pass an under-21 ordinance, um, which would
then be subject to citizen referendum. Um, so that's...in a nutshell the under-21,
um, discussion since 2000. The second proposal was a limitation on drink
specials, um, happy hour, that kind of thing. Council did in 2001 pass an
ordinance prohibiting certain drink specials -two-for-ones, um, all you can drink,
uh, for a certain price, or for free - um, there was at that time we included a
provision that would have prohibited price specials, um, selling below that which
you normally or customarily charge, and Council chose...there was some
objection to that and Council chose not to include that in the ordinance. Um, we
did, uh, amend that...that ordinance to eliminate the, um, the exception for private
events, and I...I gave you that example more...it's not so much the private events
that is a big deal. It's just it's an example of how those types of ordinances are
just fraught with enforcement difficulties. Because what we have found is
that...you know, my office has spent a lot of time opining on whether a particular
drink special would, um, be prohibited or not, and I cannot tell you how many
drinks there are out there. I mean, there are little shot glasses sitting on top of
each other, there is a big glass with a shot glass being poured, I mean, it's
like...you can't imagine how many drinks are out there. So those kind of
ordinances.. .
Champion/ That's what you pay the big bucks for! (laughter)
Dilkes/ More than I would imagine! So, um, I just gave you that example, and there's
some others, um, I think I told you in here that that ordinance also contains a
provision for what we call out of sight sales, um, which prohibits someone form
going up to the bar and buying ten beers and then taking them to the table and
distributing them to perhaps underage people. We originally wrote that ordinance
to say, um, you can only give two servings to each person, and um, the definition
of servings was problematic from an enforcement perspective, and so we went to
containers, which has made that easier. Um, there has been some talk, uh,
recently about this whole, um, I think Leah Cohen talked to you about the big
containers. Um, currently we have...one of our specials' restrictions prohibits,
um, increasing the volume of a drink, or increasing the proportion of alcohol in a
drink without increasing the price of that drink. Um, it does not, our current
ordinance does not prohibit a certain size of drink; um, it could, if you wanted it
to. Um, but I think the idea in the current ordinance is, if I've got this much
Coke, um, and I put this much alcohol in it, um, I shouldn't be able to put this
much alcohol in it without increasing the price proportionately. So...um, number
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 38
three was imposition of administrative penalties for sales to underage persons.
Um, I kind of give you a summary of that there, but what that involves is, um, the
police department and they can give you more information about this if you need
it, but they, um, do compliance checks where they take, uh, a person who is in
actuality under age, um, and see if they can purchase alcohol. Um, if they are
sold alcohol, um, the bartender or whoever is serving them that alcohol is charged
with criminal offense, and that proceeds through the criminal court system here,
but in addition to that, there are administrative penalties that are levied against the
license of the establishment where the criminal offense occurred. Um, we
start...when we started that whole process, we would wait until there was a
conviction, um, of the employee before forwarding it to the, uh, ADD for
administrative sanctions, and what we found is that we were spending a lot of
time at the criminal trial, um, I mean, there was incentive on the part of the
establishments to avoid the conviction, and therefore, avoid the civil penalty.
That didn't make a lot of sense, because the issues at the criminal trial, such as
identity, whether it's this employee or that employee, makes a big difference for
the person being convicted of the crime. Doesn't make any difference at all for
whether there's an administrative sanction that should be imposed. So, we quit
waiting for the conviction and we started forwarding those immediately, and I
think that, um, our general impression is that that, and I know the last time we
visited this at the police department, is that the, um, they have seen more
compliance over time, as they do their compliance checks. Uh... four, increased
enforcement of capacity restrictions. Um, Andy Rocca's here, the Fire Chief, and
he can give you more information if you need it, and there's a memo, um, in your
packet from him, but the City did add, uh, captain inspector position, which was
filled in 2005, in order to target occupancy, um, classifications particularly those
with, um, A2 occupancies with liquor licenses, um, so the City has pursued that.
Uh, proposal five, subdivide Iowa City into separate liquor districts. Um, this is
the old zoning question. We need to make it really clear that we do not have the
authority to say we're only going to issue ten...we're only going to issue 100
liquor licenses this year, and cap it at a hundred. We don't have the authority to
do that -State law says so. What you could do, and I think Bob Miklo's memo
which I included in here explains it fairly well, um, you could set up certain
zoning classifications, um, and make a determination that having too many, um,
businesses whose primary business is the selling of alcohol, in close proximity to
each other, has bad secondary effects, and it is not something that you want to
promote, and so you would have certain zoning, uh, laws about that. You can do
that. As Bob Miklo's memo demonstrates, there's a lot of tough questions you're
going to have to answer, if you want to pursue that. The City Council looked at
that issue back in...2003, I guess, and decided not to pursue it, and I think...I
think, Connie, it was you who said that...that just seemed~awful complicated and
maybe we should try 21 again, which got us off on our...on our 21 thing.
So...but it's certainly available.
Hayek/ The shot heard around the world. Pardon the pun! (laughter)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 39
Dilkes/ Um, but certainly an available option that you could, um, review. I know there
have been some complaints recently that you've had about, um, liquor... a retail
establishment that sells liquor opening downtown, a different class of liquor
license, and that issue could certainly be, um, addressed as part of the zoning
discussion.
Bailey/ Are all liquor licenses equal? So a Class C, a Class E...we could zone it and we
could say X number of liquor licenses, and...
Dilkes/ No, I think you wouldn't really...you'd focus on the particular use that you were
concerned about.
Bailey/ Okay.
Dilkes/ And I think a retail use is...is different than an on-premises consumption use. All
those details would have to be worked out.
Wright/ But we could do each of those as a proximity type of zoning arrangement.
Dilkes/ Yes. You could...you see that often with, um, and I think Bob Miklo's memo
talked about other cities that have those kind of schemes. You see that often with
adult establishment regulation where they can't be within 500 feet of each other
and so many in a certain area, that kind of thing. It's the same...it's the same
basic idea. You do have to remember grandfathering with the zoning, um, you're
not going to...if a business, if a particular use has been established downtown as
of the time you pass the ordinance, you're not going to be able to impact that
establishment.
Wright/ Just out of curiosity, if they were to, if a business were to lose their license
through a revocation.. .
Bailey/ Then it loses its grandfather status.
Wright/ It loses its grandfather status, correct?
Dilkes/ Well...perhaps. We'd have...you don't really look at...it's not the license that's
determinative. It's what the use has been, and so you wouldn't
necessarily...yeah, Imean, if the use has been established and there is a sale of
that business, and I'd have to go back and look at the rules about revocation and
how that license, whether all those issues, so I don't...we'd have to look at it.
Wright/ Maybe.
Dilkes/ Maybe, yeah, but...but if there was, if it was...if the liquor laws would allow you
to, someone to be revoked and then sell that business to a different entity, and
continue that use, that would continue to be grandfathered.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 40
Champion/ I thought if the license was revoked, that...that place, that address could
never serve alcohol again. No? Okay. (several talking)
Dilkes/ I'd have to check that provision. There's a particular...there's a period of time
and there's a number of regulations that address that, but I'd have to go back and
look at those...again. But it's not like...no.
O'Donnell/ I think it's a year.
Dilkes/ I think you're...you might be right. Okay, um, six is TlI'S certification and
training and, um, the Police Department has been doing that since 1992. Um, I
talked to Al Mebus at the Police Department who...who is most familiar with
this, and um, he tells me that 15 establishments participate regularly in that, 20 to
28 per year, but 15 are regular participants. Um, he provides the classes eight to
ten times per year, and the TIPS certification lasts for three years.
Bailey/ Can we require that as part of the licensing?
Dilkes/ There's a provision in the State code that allows you to require as part of local
licensing a security personnel, and require them to have certain training, so yes, I
think so.
O'Donnell/ Eleanor, what...what advantages are for taking the TIPS? What...what
advantage is there for this certification?
Dilkes/ Well, I think the advantage to the, um, to the owners of the establishment is their
people get trained in how to not sell to underage people, to people who are
intoxicated and those...that has a number of benefits for the establishment. One
is if someone, if a bartender's convicted of selling to an underage person, they're
subject to civil penalties. Um, there was a real (mumbled) that offered back in
2003 by the State, but that has not been in effect for some time, and that was the
situation where if, um, if the person charged with the criminal offense had been
TIPS certified, then it would not, the penalty would...the establishment would
have one get out of jail card free kind of is what we called it.
O'DonnelU But that's not in effect?
Dilkes/ That's not in effect anymore.
Wilburn/ Lynn Walding, the Alcohol Beverage Division staffer, that was something that
he had worked out, uh, at the time. So...
Dilkes/ But that's not in effect anymore. Oh, one thing I should say about the
administrative penalties. The Council made a decision, um, back when we started
to do those that, while the City Council could issue those administrative penalties,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 41
the Council thought it would be better off done by the ABD, both because the
ABD is...is only interested in alcohol and wouldn't be subject to the political
pressures that the Council might be, um, and there's an appeal to the ABD
anyway after the City Council acts on it. So, um, and I think that procedure has
worked pretty well. Uh, minimum price formula for alcohol sales. I think I
touched on that. Um, I think it would be problematic, um, legally and practically
for us to be setting prices, but I think there are things you can do to prohibit price
specials. Wristbands, um, that hasn't been pursued by the City Council, um,
it's...I can't remember a lot about what that...what that proposal was. Um, it
was...well, suffice to say, we haven't...the City Council has not implemented
any, um, uniform legal requirement for wristbands, and I think that was the idea.
Um, uh... advertisement of drink specials. Um, the City Council has not pursued
that, um, and I don't think that even got so far as my office doing a whole lot of
research on the whole issue, I mean, it's the whole First Amendment issue there.
Um, one thing that occurs to me is that one of the ways we know, I mean, people
...that establishments are doing specials is because they advertise. So, um, I think
you'd have to consider that too if you wanted to pursue that. Um, keg
registration, that's been pre-empted, um, by the State law that requires, um, keg
identification and registration with the retailer. Um, limiting out of sight sales,
that's the only two servings now, containers, per person. Um, there was a
proposal to establish a coalition committee of interested parties, and I've given
you just a short list of all the different working groups that have been set up to
address the issue, and Marian could give you all of them if you wanted. Um, 13,
that proposal about physical segregation within liquor establishments of areas
where drinks are allowed or not allowed. Um, that has, and I think I said, it
would mostly be kind of a component of an under-21, um, provision, and that has
been discussed on a number of occasions, um, in connection with the under-21
discussion. Um, hiring of off-duty police officers in uniform by bar owners.
Legally I don't think there's anything prohibiting you from doing that, but there'd
be a number of policy and liability issues that the City would...uh, Manager and
Police Chief would have to consider. Um, scanning machines to identify fake
LD.'s. The City Council has not pursued that as a uniform requirement. Um,
okay, so those are the ones that, those were the proposals made in 2000. Uh, in
addition to those, in June of 2006 the Council, the State code requires that, um, or
says you can give a license to someone who meets all your laws and ordinances,
etc., and is of "good moral character." Um, and the State code sets a couple
standards about felony convictions and that kind of thing. Um, we, the City
Council adopted guidelines, uh, for the Police Chief to use in making that
assessment, and um, those guidelines have been attached. Um, those guidelines
could be changed, um, think when...when, um, Marian and I and Sam went about
developing that...those criteria, um, we looked at a lot of different things, whether
I thought they were, um, legally supportable, whether practically they made sense,
etc., etc., but that's certainly an area that you could look at again. Um, one area
for instance that I just note down here is you could tighten the criteria for renewal,
based on number of PAULA's, um.. .
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 42
Wilburn/ Doesn't the...definition that you all worked out include some statement about
consideration of...
Dilkes/ It does...
Wilburn/ ...so are you just suggesting...
Dilkes/ ...yeah, and I don't think PAULA is ever going to, I mean, I think you want to
look at those criteria as you look at them all, and see how a bar is doing, but that
is one of the criteria is the PAULA rate, how many PAULA's per visit over time,
and um, it used to be that the ABD was telling us that they would not support, um,
just number of PAULA's as a criteria. I think that has changed. How that would
end up at the ABD and in the courts, I don't know. Um, but I would be
comfortable with the Council (mumbled) that issue. Uh, possession of alcohol
under legal age. There's been some changes there. Um, we now try and look at
the PAULA's that are issued in the field and amend them to second or subsequent
offenses, if the records show that the person has been convicted before. As you
all know, um, the fine was increased in 2005 from $100 to $200, which I think
with, um, surcharge and court costs is now like around $360 or something like
that. Um, the Student Government back in 2007 made a lengthy proposal about,
uh, deferring prosecutions of PAULA's, which, um, I gave you a memo about,
and uh, the Council chose not to pursue that. Um, given the, um, the arguable
benefit and the staff resources that would be involved. And then there was the
after-hours club, where the Council recently passed an ordinance, um, prohibiting
after-hours clubs, bring your own liquor after the bar closes. So that's it for the,
what the Council has done. I know...
Bailey/ Questions regarding what she presented? I think most asked questions along the
way, but if there are other questions about that.
Correia/ So I have a question. I'm also looking at the memo that's in our packet, S.E.6
from MECCA. Um, that lists best practices in alcohol policy (several
commenting) um, so I have a question about, um, number seven in your memo,
Eleanor, was the price proposal, or price formula, or whatever. So you said that
we could prohibit establishments from doing price specials. I mean, that seems to
be one of the best practices in alcohol policy is to increase the price by restricting
price promotions. So, that's something that we could do. We could say no...
Bailey/ No two-for-ones.
Correia/ No...
Dilkes/ We already say no two-for-ones. (several commenting) The problem with, and
we've talked about this with Councils in the past, is if you prohibit two-for-ones, I
don't think it gets you very far, when instead of giving two beers for the price of
one, you reduce the price of each beer by half, or you reduce the price...you
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 43
charge each person five cents for a beer. I really think, and...and the Council
discussed this when they originally passed that ordinance, without some provision
about price specials, I'm not sure the whole thing is...is, other than symbolically,
has a lot of value.
Champion/ What about, Eleanor, um, I've talked to several people about not allowing
you to sell alcohol below cost. `Cause...
Dilkes/ That would be along these same lines, and I think that's something we could look
at.
Bailey/ I want to...
Dilkes/ There's a lot of definition and enforcement issues in that whole thing, like...what
is their cost, what is their customary price, you know, I know there have been
some other states that have, they have to post prices each...each month, I mean,
you know, there are a lot of issues about enforcement there. But, I think you
could do it.
Wilburn/ ...and, uh, you probably remember this, uh, Connie and Mike, back then, um,
there was a concern, um, by a majority of Council about getting into price
controls.
Champion/ Oh, right!
Wilburn/ That's just background information.
Champion/ Right, no I remember that.
Wilburn/ Not saying that was my position, but that's what.. .
Champion/ No, I...I agree. There was, I mean, we don't want to be in the business of
setting prices for people, um, but I do think not selling alcohol below cost, I
mean, that's...that really is cheap. It's really cheap, and you're actually paying
your customers to drink alcohol at your establishment, because they make their
money on cover charges or other things. So, the price of alcohol is not really
important to a lot of bars.
Bailey/ I want to try something here, instead of picking through these. I mean,. I think
that we're all in agreement that we want to change something. I want to
understand a little bit, or maybe we can get some consensus, and we don't have to
have a long discussion about what is our fundamental objective here? I think that
many of us are coming at this in different ways, but there is an agreement that we
want to change things. So if people could, I mean, what are we trying, what is our
objective here, and I think that that would effect what kinds of policies or
what...what we need to look at to meet those objectives.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 44
Wilburn/ Um, before folks comment on that, um, I just wanted to add the comment as we
get into this discussion here, I think the importance of having Eleanor walk
through, um, what she just did with the Council in terms of the historic
perspective since 2000, is that it is inaccurate to say that Council has done nothing
related to this, uh, issue. The...the difficulty has been coming up with a majority
consensus in terms, in my opinion, of um, the role that the City would play, and
what difficulties in philosophy about what is appropriate for the City to do, and
not to do.
Bailey/ And that's what I...I'd like to get to, to a certain degree here. What's our
objective with, I mean, we want to create some change, but what are we trying to
accomplish here? And I know some of you have strong feelings about this, so
jump right in.
Wright/ I see about two or three prongs to this. One is, there's a problem with underage
and binge drinking in the community. Most of it is focused in the downtown area.
I think that's one thing I'd like to see us work on. But related to that is the bad
effects...the atmosphere and the culture of the downtown. It effects multiple
ways, both, uh, noise, uh, hooligans somebody called them a little while ago
(laughter) um, but it also...it also effects them in terms of the mix of
establishments that we have downtown. Quite an increase in the number of bars,
some of them are very large. And it's tilted the balance especially in the evening
downtown. So that's...three, basically three elements of one overarching
concern, which is the problem of underage and abuse of alcohol downtown.
Bailey/ Okay.
Champion/ Well, I think you hit it...it's the abuse of alcohol downtown, and it isn't just
minors. (several commenting) It certainly isn't just minors that are abusing
alcohol downtown. In fact on a football Saturday obviously it's two to one of
people who aren't minors. Um, up to my age. Um, what I'm interested in doing,
I'm trying...I want some of the abuse of alcohol curtailed, when it's...when it's
the product of irresponsible bar ownership. I know not everybody drinks their
alcohol downtown or a lot of people drink it at home and then go downtown, but I
do think we have, in the past couple years, irresponsible bar ownership. I mean
they made promises to us that they were going to have monitors in their bar.
They were going to do this, they were going to do that. That's not happening. So
I think they reneged, and they did really well for a while. They really did well,
and then because there wasn't any way to enforce that, it kind of fell apart.
I...I'm concerned about the abuse of alcohol of all ages, in bars downtown, when
people who are obviously intoxicated to me and I'm not a police man and I don't
have any TIPS training, are still buying alcohol. I mean, when you can't walk,
and I...I think we're going to have some tragedy downtown. There were two kids
sitting on the curb, that's when I got all hell bent out of this and brought it up
again. They were sitting on the curb. They could barely move. There was a big
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 45
white truck parked and that guy came out of the bar, walked around the front of
his truck, did not see these kids sitting on the curb, couldn't possibly see them, got
in his car, started his car and started to back up. I mean, I think we've got some
real problems with, um, it wasn't the car owners fault. He could not have
possibly seen these kids, where he approached his car. But, um, these kids were
obviously totally intoxicated, and eventually stumbled up, I'm not sure how they
got up, and went back into the bar.
O'Donnell/ Connie, any idea how old they were?
Champion/ I didn't ask. I just screamed at them, `cause I tried to saved their lives, and
they didn't hear me. I mean, I thought they were going to get run over. So, I
mean, uh, these are obviously intoxicated, who went back into the bar. Nobody
kept them from going back into the bar or trying to take them home, and I think
this is going on and you...I could go on all night, but this is what I'm trying to
avoid, uh, I think a lot of bar owners downtown are very responsible. Um, I think
some bar owners make it...I don't think it's their policy to serve intoxicated
people. I just don't think they enforce their own rules. The other thing I think is
happening is the bartenders are almost as intoxicated as the people they're
serving. And I think that's another problem. I've said my piece.
Bailey/ All right.
Correia/ So, did...
Bailey/ Go ahead.
Correia/ ...I mean, well I was going to go into (mumbled) but.. .
Bailey/ Yeah, let's...yeah, I'd like to hear what...
Correia/ ...right, if we're talking about, I mean, L ..I agree with everything that's been
said, um, in terms of goal. I mean, I'm interested in promoting more healthy
recreational culture in our...in our downtown and throughout the city, um, I
mean, I...which would include attempting to diversify the types of businesses that
are downtown, the population that they cater to in terms of age and recreational or
cultural or um, interests. Um.. .
O'Donnell/ And we talk about that all the time too. We talk about alternatives
downtown, and I've been doing this for almost 11 years, and I've not seen one
downtown.
Champion/ It's not the bar that's the problem. It's the abuse of alcohol, and um, the
movie theaters are now gone. The University bought that space. There's no
chance of them coming back. They got rid of their bowling alleys, they've gotten
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 46
rid of a lot of stuff in their Union. I mean, their...where's their responsibility in
this, to provide alternatives?
Bailey/ We're going to talk about our objectives and then we'll tell them what we think
theirs should be, so...first things first!
O'Donnell/ The bottom line is the weather's changing, it's fall, it's football season, and
we're talking about alcohol once again.
Champion/ At football season, that's for sure.
O'Donnell/ And...and you know, if you look in the papers, you're right, Connie. It isn't
all 19. It's...it's any age, and I don't know that...what the key is to it, or if there
is a good solid answer, but um, I...
Bailey/ Is there something that you want to see changed though, Mike? I mean, you've
talked about this before.
O'Donnell/ University stopped writing letters home when, um, when the young folks got
in trouble with the law. They stopped writing. I think that was a mistake. Um,
you know, the fines I think could be increased. We've increased them for the
owner of the establishments, substantially.
Bailey/ So go to what Connie was saying and punish the irresponsible bar owners? Is
that one of your objectives or...
O'Donnell/ L ..well, along with punishing the offender.
Bailey/ Okay.
O'Donnell/ You know, and...and to a much larger degree. I mean, did we go from $100
to $200, is that what it is? The bar owners are paying now $1,500 for a second,
uh, for a second offense, and I, you know, the bottom line is, um, if it hurts your
pocketbook I think you will think twice the second time.
Bailey/ Amy, were you finished? Did you have another point to make?
Correia/ Not right now.
Bailey/ Okay.
Wilburn/ I have to go back, for me, with the role, uh, the community's response to the
concerns that have been expressed here and expressed back before 2000, uh, but
the intensity of the issue and the, um, quantities of alcohol, um, varied over time,
but a community's response, prevention education, treatment, intervention and
enforcement. And the city's logical role since, uh, we are charged by the State to
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 47
monitor, administer the liquor license. Is that a correct, fair statement? Okay.
Um, traditionally involves police and citations, and uh, if we, if it's limited to that
role, then periodically there's complaints by, uh, not just some bar owners but
some people who have a different value in the community that you're... you're
messing with the kids, uh, they point out that people of all ages, uh, over
consume, which is true, which is why police, law enforcement also make citations
and it's illegal to serve someone who is intoxicated. I mean, those things exist.
There are other aspects, um, other entities in the community that we have here,
and we've heard over the years, uh, before 2000 but starting with this intense
effort in 2000, that do prevention education, that do treatment. Some have been
University-based, some are community-based, like MECCA, the Mideastern
Council on Chemical Abuse. When we started all this in 2000, um, you know,
several of those other entities, community entities, uh, and individuals in the
community that do education, that do treatment, have said that, uh, at...there is no
one answer, like Mike was saying, but they were saying a critical piece, a
catalytic piece could have been at the time the Council doing the 21 restriction.
Um, we were unable to get consensus on that for a variety of reasons, but again to
say the City has done nothing is inaccurate, and even though the 21 didn't go
through, there was, uh, acknowledgment I think by the Council that an effective
thing would be that proposal on the, uh, imposition of administrative penalties,
which we continue to see some of those. That's where, you know, the first
violation, the second violation, the escalating penalties, including suspension and
civil penalty. Um, for the, uh, for the establishments, the holder of the permit.
We've also had, uh, that personal responsibility in terms of what you brought up,
Mike, the, uh, escalation from the $100 to $200, uh, fine. Um, for me, you know,
unless we are willing to take a look at that, uh, catalytic piece, 21, which would
not be the only thing. Other sectors of the community would respond, and law
enforcement itself would respond to some potential concerns that were relayed in
terms of displacing a problem to neighborhoods and those type of things, um,
unless we're willing to do that, uh, I mean there maybe some things to take a
look here, but um, it's difficult to have motivation. We've talked about, uh, you
know, having revisited this multiple times since several of us have been on
Council, uh, to look much beyond intervention and enforcement, it's really
difficult to, um, to do that. So...um, I mean, we'll get into, um, specifics about
the proposals, but um, for me, again, um, it has been those other elements of the
community -prevention, education, treatment -have told us that that 21 piece is
a critical piece. I'm not advocating it right now. I don't know. I have a sense
that there's been an interest in Council to do that, so given that, you know, I don't,
other than looking at some of the, uh, other proposals, I think the, um, well, we'll
have the specific proposals, but I think that an important piece of the enforcement
has been that, um, the administrative penalties, as well as that individual, uh,
personal responsibility penalty.
Hayek/ Um, ditto to a lot of what has been said. I...I like the way we cast our, or we
discussed the problems we're trying to address, and I would add to the culture of
downtown issue that, um, the diversity of our business landscape...Amy, Ithink
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 48
you sort of were alluding to that, um, if you look at the, just proliferation of bars,
uh, as a percentage of downtown businesses, uh, the numbers pretty incredible.
Um, so from an economic development and business (mumbled) standpoint, I
think that, uh, works its way into this discussion, as well. Um, clearly the two
main players in this discussion are the City and the University. Um, I've been,
uh, I'm hardened by the comments we've, uh, seen in the press over the last week
or two from the leadership there, and some of the University's leadership is here
tonight, which is, uh, fantastic. Um, and...as we as a Council discuss what we
want to do, I think it's important to understand what we can do and where the
University fits in, and...and uh, the way I sort of delineate those two roles is, uh,
for myself at least is that I think the...what the City can do regards bars and
criminal penalties, for the most part. Those are very broad categories, but we
don't have the authority to determine where students live in our community, how
far they live from campus, and under what circumstances. We don't have the
authority to determine, um, how they are engaged on campus. Uh, and we don't
have the authority to determine, uh, what is expected of them as students. Uh,
and that's something that I know the University will look at, um, or I hope the
University will look at, but where we can, uh, come in, uh, is what we're talking
about tonight, uh, and I think there are a number of good proposals on the table
and I know we've looked at many, many of them, uh, on repeat occasions. Um,
but I guess as to those, uh, proposals that are out there, my thought - my first
thought - is, well, I'm not necessarily opposed to what I would describe as more
of the more piece-meal approaches we might take with drink specials and things
like that, uh, I question how effective those approaches will be, um, because
enforcement is difficult and the resources the City dedicates to that is, uh, would
be considerable, and you're doing more chasing, um, and I think we...we, uh,
ought to be engaged in - I'm not saying I would oppose those things, but I'm just
not convinced of how effective they would be. I'd...I would encourage us to take
amore macro approach, or what I would describe as a macro approach, and...and
uh, along the lines of what Ross is talking about, put the onus on the
establishments to comply with standards, bright-line standards that we as a City
adopt, um, and the first place I would start, personally, is with the liquor license
review and renewal process, and if you look at the good moral standards
guidelines that the Chief of Police has to operate under, those are pretty loose, and
um, I would be interested in looking at policies that, uh, would for example say, if
you get more than X PAULA's per year as an establishment, your license is...is,
uh, nixed, um, and with no grounds for debate over that. And, uh, or if you get
more than X number of public intox charges within your establishment, same
outcome. Um, figure out what that number is, make it reasonable, but...but
tough, and then let the establishments police themselves, as opposed to us trying
to chase them. Um, obviously you have to enforce those laws to get the statistics
on which that determination would be made, but we're doing that already. Um,
and so, and in addition to that, look at our administrative penalties as well. But,
uh, I think placing the onus on the people who are serving, uh, alcohol and...and
benefiting from that, allows them to police themselves in the way that they see fit
and see as most efficient and...and successful, um, and it, I think it lightens the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 49
load on the City in a good way, so that we can, uh, and...and I also just think it
makes more sense. So...
Champion/ I like that approach.
Wilburn/ And I think that approach, going back to some of the concerns that have been
expressed over the years, in terms of not trying to regulate prices or interfere with,
you know, uh, the market and those type of things, um, that approach says, you
take care of it, however you're going to take care of it, in terms of addressing, um,
serving to folks whatever age who shouldn't be served because they've consumed
too much, and/or serving to folks who are underage because it's against State law
for them to do that, uh, so some folks may do the bans. Some may limit their
specials, but you know, that type of approach backs us away from, uh, you know,
uh, you refer to the piece-meal, but it also in terms of opposition to some of those
individual items, uh, you know, it makes a lot of headlines that Council is trying
to, you know, make the bars (mumbled), uh, make them use, uh, you know, our
wristbands and those type of things. The...the...the tough part of that is, uh, in
the past when we've had, uh, increased enforcement there comes complaints and
then there's ramping back of, um, you know, just like if you're going to give out a
fine, if you're going to give out tickets, and you're going to enforce those, then
people are going to be complaining because they're not happy about that, um, and
there was one other piece you reminded me of, Matt. I'm trying to
remember...oh, that approach also in that particular example that you gave goes
back, I keep going back to that 2000, that original meeting with the 2000
proposal. I remember, uh, former Mayor Lehman, um, had the big meeting and
people who were supportive of Council doing something, well, many were saying
Council doing something, but in terms of the 21 restriction, that...those type of,
uh, limitations. Um, we had the meeting with the bar owners, and the University
group was here, and we had a special couple three, four hour meeting, and um,
Mayor Lehman had said, uh, essentially to the liquor license holders, uh,
Council's ears are wide open. We'll do...you come up with the solution and
we'll do it. And those groups came back, essentially, and said, we couldn't do it.
And that's what started, um, you know, the response by the Council. So, I guess
that goes back to that philosophy, uh, those type of proposals, uh, you know,
here's the regulation. Handle it however you're going to handle it, but you know,
we will stick to the enforcement.
O'Donnell/ Matt, are you suggesting...
Bailey/ I wanted to give Tyler an opportunity to weigh in. We haven't heard from Tyler.
(several talking)
Gunn/ Again, Tyler Gunn, uh, Student Liaison here at City Council, and you know, I
have a long history downtown. You know, I'm not new to the area. I grew up
here in Iowa City. And I'm definitely a product of my community and my
environment. And uh, I think too long there's been an overemphasis on student
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 50
involvement. Too much of the burden has been bared by students in kind of less
of the overview that's necessary on the bar owners. Now, when I was 18, I
graduated from City High a week later I got a PAULA ticket. And there hasn't
been one graduate school interview (mumbled) job interview I've had where I
haven't had to explain that. Unfortunately in my position now, ignorance works.
Ignorance is a good excuse to get out of that. But, uh, and you know, I'd argue
that raising the fine for PAULA's aren't going to fix the problem. I think if you
look over the last four years, I pulled out from where you said the last student
government proposed deferring PAULA tickets is that you were giving out
around 1,800 PAULA's a year. And over the four years we have not seen a
decrease of underage people in bars. We haven't really seen a solid decrease in
these problems, from this, and I think there is a distinct difference between
underage drinking and binge drinking and over-consumption of alcohol. I
think...we can get sidetracked with the underage argument and get away from the
real problem, which is excessive drinking. And if 19 and 20 year olds are in the
bar and not excessively drinking, then that isn't as big a problem as it would be
now.
Wilburn/ I appreciate your sharing, uh, the personal story and uh, appreciate your
observations.
Gunn/ And if I remember, there had been a liaison in the past who also had...
Wilburn/ That's correct. (several talking)
Correia/ Well, and I think that that's...when I'm looking at the best practices in alcohol
policies, what I'm looking at is what has been some of the approaches that...that
have worked to decrease alcohol consumption. You know, of...I mean, certainly
the enforcing of legal drinking age tries to decrease the age of onset, or um, and
there's, you know, research in brain development and all of that, as to why we
want to, you know, decrease age of onset for alcohol, and certainly for drinking
excessively, and that's where...when I look at some of the strategies that have
worked, which include keeping the price high, the prices higher. If people do
drink, they're not going to drink as much. So that...is that question, or that issue
about the over-consumption, and I think that the other issue that I hear from folks
is that the...the alcohol culture downtown, because of the proliferation of bars and
liquor licenses, and if we could, um, control density and location, and that is
another, one of the list from the research and best practices. So that we diversify
our downtown, um, and...and in other area, I mean, have a diverse, um,
commercial areas so that we don't have pockets of, um, businesses with alcohol
licenses, um, and then the other thing that I'm looking at in here is reducing the
amount of youth exposure to alcohol advertising. We have a lot of teens, high
school students that hang out downtown, and I don't know if we could reduce the
advertising that is in all of the windows in all of these establishments that are
downtown. I think it creates clutter in our, in the...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 51
Bailey/ More than 25% of the window surface. Isn't that our sign ordinance?
Champion/ They watch it on TV (several talking)
Bailey/ I think that's right actually. (several talking)
Correia/ Well, anyway, but those advertisements, if we could change that perception
because we have...
Bailey/ So we do have a consensus that we're interested in addressing the issue of
excessive drinking. And we do have a consensus that we're interested in
addressing some of the concerns about developing some diversity in our
downtown. I mean, we are all...seem to be concerned about our downtown and
the culture. So, um, that's good. And there...
O'Donnell/ Also, Regenia, we're concerned about (mumbled). I really appreciate that,
but you are living exactly what we're trying to prevent. I mean, people going out
into the job market. I've talked to a lot of young people and I don't believe that
this University (mumbled), because it does come back when you go out and apply
for a job, that you've got that PAULA. It comes up, and that's one of the points
that we're here.
Bailey/ And that seems to be the direction that we're interested in going. Is what Tyler
says is, let's put more of the onus on the bar owners. I think Matt said that, and
others have said that as well. And so, um, so let's talk a little bit about...are we,
is that what everybody else heard, that there is consensus in moving...so let's
look at what...what we might look at, steps that we might be interested in taking,
or other ideas that we might get some information about, um, that would move us
in that direction. Um, let's just start with this excessive drinking and putting more
of the burden on...
Wilburn/ There's just a couple other thoughts that occurred to me. Um, again, I
appreciate the information that was shared, uh, that's one example. I'm sure there
are other examples, but I also know examples where, uh, the issue of PAULA has
not come up during interviews, uh, it's been more, uh, felonies and that level
of...of uh, of uh, of crime that has come up. I've been on scholarship review
panels. I've been on... at this University when I was employed by the University,
uh, on undergraduate and graduate, uh, enrollment, uh, application review, and at
that level it was the felony, and not this, so again, I'm not trying to say your
experience didn't happen. I'm just saying that there, uh, that you will find
evidence of both cases.
Dilkes/ I do want to just note too though that one of the attachments, when I...as my
memo about the deferred prosecution, a proposal made by the students, and at that
time we were concerned with the affect of one PAULA conviction on future
opportunities. It was being exaggerated and we did contact the, um, both the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 52
medial school and the law school at our university and were told that it would not
have an impact in terms of your admission.
Wilburn/ Right, and I'm just saying that there's examples of both. I didn't want to
discount...your experience was your experience, but (mumbled) and then um, I
still have to go back to, um, you keep bringing up the, uh, I guess as we go
through these individual items, I guess I would ask Council to consider this in the
background as you look at those items. You're going through the best practices in
terms of trying to have, uh, any prevention treatment, strategies, talk about
reducing not eliminating. You're not going to totally prevent something. It's
creating a...a culture and environment where things are reduced or better choices,
more healthier choices are, so, keep that in the background as you look at these.
Bailey/ Okay. So, what we are trying to do essentially is address the issue of excessive
drinking, and I think in regard to PAULA's, there was concern expressed that
there was an interest in making the, if an establishment had PAULA's, making
that a more stringent sort of consideration when we talked about revoking or
denying licenses, not actually, um, addressing the individual...
Dilkes/ At renewal, yes.
Bailey/ Renewal.
Wright/ I think that's absolutely something we should look at. Incorporating a more
stringent PAULA number into that list of factors for renewing of liquor license.
Correia/ Well, I think there's a couple of other things too. The other thing that we've
heard is, and you brought this up Connie, is...is staff in establishments serving
while they themselves have been drinking. Are there...
Bailey/ We can...what can we do to address that?
Correia/ Is that (several talking)
Champion/ It's hard to tell if somebody else is drunk if you've been drinking.
Dilkes/ I think we should...maybe you need to separate your discussion
between...tightening the criteria for renewal of a license, as opposed to making
new laws about what can and can't happen within the establishment. Those are
two different things, and yes, we could do a combination of those, but right now
we don't have a law on the books.
Correia/ That's not a violation of anything. Okay. They can drink while they're at work.
Dilkes/ (several commenting) Drinking while you're...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 53
Correia/ If you're a bartender at a bar, you can drink alcohol while you're at work.
Bailey/ If your manager allows it, or your supervisor. (several talking)
Correia/ Right, I mean, there's no...that's not a (several talking)
Dilkes/ I think we probably could do it, prevent it, but I don't think it's prevented right
now.
Bailey/ Okay, so let's just...let's just address that first question, the tightening of
requirements, and this would, I mean, we have a memo from the Police Chief
about how the factors...that are considered, and how do we want to, if we want to,
tighten these up?
Hayek/ Let me jump in here. L ..let me give you an example. Onto the criteria for
renewal, one section says a rate, a pattern of convictions of persons within the
establishment for PAULA, um, may be a factor, and it states that a rate of one and
a half PAULA's per visit, maybe grounds for disapproval of the application. I
mean, number one, that's loose, and number two, that's generous. I mean, that
says that out of every ten visits to your bar, we, uh, we're anticipating that...out
of every ten visits to your bar, if only 14 people are charged with PAULA, you're
in the clear. And if 15 people are charged, that's somehow the cut-off point. I
mean, it would seem to me to be reasonable, uh, to say the odds should be greater,
uh, there should be...the odds should be greater than not that when we go into
your place we're not going to cite somebody. We're not going to find somebody
who's, uh...
Lombardo/ It strikes me that...that what you all, and I've tried to keep track of the things
that you said you wanted to effect by anything we do, we'll take a comprehensive
approach. LTh, that any one or a few of these things in isolation may have limited
effect, but...but may not get us to the end goal, and so I'm wondering, um, if you
would want us to come back with kind of a comprehensive strategy, or if you
want to debate them individually.
Bailey/ Well, I think...I think there is some interest in...a little bit further discussion
which could clarify perhaps what the comprehensive, or what would be (several
talking)
Dilkes/ What I would suggest if we're going to look at PAULA rates, um, is we would
want to get...to start with, and that was my first question to you -what other
information do you want.
Bailey/ Right.
Dilkes/ Um, I think one of the pieces of information you need is updated, I mean, we
need to have the most current PAULA...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 54
Bailey/ Well, and that's a question that I had. We, um, when I first got on Council we
would receive monthly reports regarding those PAULA's, PAULA reports, and
we no longer receive those, and I've asked...this is the third or fourth time I've
mentioned that and it was indicated that we would continue to receive those. That
is something that we look at, I think, also when we look at our Consent Calendar
and notice that we're renewing, um, liquor licenses, and I think that would be
helpful from a public, you know, public perspective as well as our perspective to
continue to have those reports. I'm assuming that they're continuing to be
generated.
Champion/ I'm all in favor of that, but I also think we need to have some level of, from
the Police Department, that they're going to be doing checks or whatever you call
it.
Bailey/ Well, the Chief is here, um, if, Sam, if you want to come up here and talk a little
bit about this. That'd be great.
Champion/ ...if you're going to have that, you have to have...we have to have enough
police to go in there and check.
Hargadine/ Right. And I think that goes back to, you can tweak the ordinance all you
want, and if there's nobody, um, enforcing you. I think if Mike and Leah could
take the mic, they would say that there hasn't been much enforcement down there.
Um, and I would agree with both of `em. Um, but listen, recap the last year that
we've had. Uh, 18 months worth of a groper case. Uh, a flood. Just on our third
round...we've had three different rounds of homicides. Um, when these things
are going on, for instance, we were criticized, the perception was during the
groper case that's all we were doing was downtown doing bar enforcement, which
was not the case. Enforcement on almost every other area of the community, um,
went by the wayside while we're trying to catch that person. So, I would agree
with the...Connie, you can tweak it all you want. Um, just a little statistic on
where we are, just to field our patrol unit right now today, which is our bread and
butter answering calls when there's 9-1-1, um, our target overtime rate, uh, should
be about at 28% for our budget year. Right now we're at 36% just to field our
basic patrol unit. So when you're talking about extra things like stings and liquor
enforcement, never mind a football game on that weekend, um, this is the impact
of why we haven't been down there, and I...I won't dispute what they're probably
going to say tomorrow, um, we've not been down there because we've had the
year that we've had.
Champion/ It's been a bad year. Um, did I...um, notice that you're down a policeman or
two? Do you...
Hargadine/ We are. Um...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 55
Champion/ Are they...do you have somebody going into the Academy or...
Hargadine/ We have two in the Academy right now, but we had three resignations. So,
it's a struggle. We're almost on a six-month cycle. That's what it takes, because
if it's a somebody that doesn't have the Academy, um, it takes a while to get `em
on board, takes...they only offer the Academy a couple of times a year. So, we're
ramping up again to fill our vacancies and have them in place for the January
Academy. That'll get us back up to our full compliment.
Bailey/ Any other questions for Sam?
Champion/ Um, but that's just going in for PAULA's. The sting or whatever you do, that
probably takes another person, yeah.
Hargadine/ Yeah. Um, we...we debated the PAULA issue when we came up with that
criteria, and um, PAULA's by themselves would probably not be basis for anon-
renewal. The reason it said "may" is because, uh, we would probably...if
they...if they were on the fence, you know, if they had one sales case, two sales
cases, but then they had a propensity for PAULA's, we would use that as a...as
part of our recommendation. But PAULA's by themselves, it doesn't equal a
sales case.
Hayek/ On that issue, you know, as we go forward it'd be nice to hear from your
department on what your thoughts are about that...about those criteria, and
whether the what appears to me to be a lot of discretion and something you view
as beneficial, or more of...as a burden to you because there aren't these bright-
line standards. You know, what...how you feel about that would be
interested...I'd be interested to know about.
Hargadine/ Well, the one case that came before Council and...and you all took action on
it not to renew. In that particular case there was many other factors, as well, lack
of management response, um, you have to build a...this is what the situation is
and these are the statistics that go with it. Um, I think in each case if we were to
do that again, it's going to be a little different.
Bailey/ Well, and I want to ask a question about that case because it was indicated to me
when we did that, um, that our objective with, um, them coming back, making
some improvements was compliance. Um, does that continue to be the attitude of
Council, or is there also an expectation for a higher level of responsibility from
bar owners, and the willingness that if you violated a situation, that we're not
willing to look at it again, um, for a certain period of time.
Champion/ What do you mean...you would have to have all these other things, and you'd
have to have a reason not to look at it again.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 56
Bailey/ Well, mine was purely punitive. They weren't...they were not conducting
themselves at a high enough standard of behavior, and I didn't feel that that was
appropriate. I mean, and the Chief, I mean, I'm respectfully disagreeing with
your opinion here, but um, but it was indicated to me by the rest of Council that it
was compliance was our objective, and, and they had worked towards compliance
and therefore we would take away that suggestion not to renew their liquor
license. I mean, is that how we also want to proceed with these? I mean, is it our
intent to get people complying, or is it our intent to send a different sort of
message that you're, we have higher standards of expectations for your behavior
as a bar owner.
Correia/ But shouldn't our expectations meet, be the same as what compliance is?
Bailey/ Well, but I mean it was a month later. I mean, they could have fixed this when
they got the warnings. They chose not to. When they saw that we were serious,
you know, it's kind of like grounding somebody. You know, when they see that
you're not serious. So, I mean, I mean I think that that's something I would like
us to consider as well. I mean, so they missed a month, they changed ownership,
they changed their name, they're back in business. Hopefully they're conducting
themselves at a higher standard of responsibility, but we...we're uncertain
because we don't necessarily, hearing from the Police Chief, we don't necessarily
have the, um, you know, the staff to be able to check into that. So...
Lombardo/ One of the things that I think is universally mentioned was that, um, and I
think this came up in our retreat, is that there's acknowledgement that the mix of
use downtown has...the balance has tipped, and that there's a strong interest on
behalf of Council to change that mix and find that balance. And I think...if I
may, if that's correct, then one of the tools that we would suggest and we haven't
really thought through the strategy, would be, uh, an effective way of reducing the
number of licensed, uh, bars and so it would probably come as a recommendation
that somehow we tighten up on the renewal process because if the interest is in
getting it the mix back, we have to find a way of ferreting out the bad bars, if you
will, and reducing that number, other than through zoning and some other things
that we likely recommend to you all. It has to be a combination of...of
approaches to get that number and that balance, uh, to where you're all
comfortable.
Champion/ L..no, I agree with what you're saying, but I do...I don't feel this horrible
thing about downtown. I'm sorry. I think we have three downtowns. We have
downtown from 8:00 in the morning to 7:00 at night. We have downtown from
7:00 to 11:00. Then we have downtown from 11:00 to whatever time. And
it's...as a business owner I can tell you that business is great downtown, and I'm
not in the bar business. Maybe I should have been, but I'm not, but I would
complain that the bars are ruining my business -they're not. I think they're
ruining...I'm not downtown at 2:00 A.M. I keep thinking I'm going to go down
there, but you know what? I'm not going to. Um, but I...I don't want to hear, I
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 57
don't like this discussion revolving around downtown's so temble. That creates a
whole (mumbled) for everybody in Iowa City that downtown is terrible. Well,
I'm telling you -it's not terrible! It's doing great! It's evolving. It's different
than it was 20 years ago, but it's doing great. There's lot of people, there's lots of
families, there's lots of shoppers.
Bailey/ But everybody needs to feel safe downtown, 24 hours...but 24 hours of the day,
and we just had a discussion about an hour ago about concerns about safety
downtown, and...
Champion/ Oh, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be safe, but what I'm saying, let's don't
talk about downtown as being destroyed, because it's evolving and changing. It's
not being destroyed.
Hayek/ Connie, I don't think (several talking)
Correia/ People want to see a diversity of...a mixture of uses. I mean, we have, uh,
correspondence in our packet. I hear from people all the time about, you know,
wanting to see....and no, it's not going to go back to the retail, you know, center
that it was 20 years ago, but I think that there are other communities of our size
with more diverse...
Bailey/ So, since we're on this topic and...and Michael brought it up, are we interested in
looking into this zoning question again?
Champion/ Yes!
Wright/ Definitely!
Bailey/ Okay. So, um, I would have specific questions about grandfathering, and how
does that work, and... and over what period of time what might we have the
opportunity to change the mix. Um, what other questions do you have...there's a
memo in here from Bob Miklo, what other questions if we move down this...um,
considering the zoning might you want staff to look into and be prepared, I
mean.. .
Wright/ We need to take into account both the retail liquor licenses and the consumption
licenses.
Bailey/ And I...there's a question in Bob's memo, um, it's question number four, if
Council chooses to implement zoning regulations, should these regulations apply
to all commercial zones throughout the city, and I would say in my opinion yes. I
don't know how other people feel, but I mean, I know we're interested in
downtown, but I'm not also interested in moving the pieces around about this
challenge. (several talking) So is there a, there seems to be consensus on that, as
well. Um...and then there was some discussion about the size or occupancy load,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 58
um, in this memo, but I mean, if there are other things that you need information
on.
Champion/ Well, I would like some information on what we're doing about insuring
occupancy levels are being met. Because that is a....oh, good. Oh, yeah, there he
is back there. Because that is something you could use when you're, uh,
renewing a liquor license, if they are constantly overfilling their bar.
Dilkes/ That's one of the criteria.
Champion/ It's one of the criteria, and I'm sorry, I don't hear about compliance checks
downtown either. I don't hear about, um, PAULA checks or sting checks. I don't
hear about compliance checks, and I...I mean, a fire, whatever you call it.
Rocca/ Capacity checks is what you're referring to.
Champion/ Capacity checks, and I thought we hired somebody to deal with that, and I
thought they were going to be checking, um...
Rocca/ Well, we have, and I think that the memo does, you know, step you through what
measures we've taken. Uh, the intervals of the inspections, uh, I think we've
gone beyond that in some regards when you back up the clock a little bit and you
look at the history of those capacity checks, where they were scheduled. A
certain number of them every weekend and this goes back a number of years.
And no sooner were we in and out of there, uh, probably somewhere after 11:00,
you know, likely that's when the overcrowding occurs.
Champion/ Right.
Rocca/ Overcrowding would occur, so...there's you know a limited number of
inspectors. There's a number of occupancies. We can go to one occupancy, and
then across the street while we're in one, the other one could potentially be
overcrowded. Um, that's the, I guess, recent past history, uh, when they were
regularly scheduled. They knew when we would come. They were ineffective.
They were just, you know, people knew when the Fire Department was going to
come and check their occupant load, and as soon as we made it through there, I
can't speak to what exactly happened, other than from a complaint basis when the
Police Department would go through and identify something that was potentially
overcrowded, or patrons that would call and say this place is overcrowded, and
we would go up, and so we've frankly moved into a complaint basis, um, in terms
of occupant load checks. Probably ineffective, um, but then we did, as you point
out, back in 2005 hire the Captain of Inspections. And we were not only looking
at occupant load checks or capacity checks, but we were looking at fire protection
equipment installation, and you know, we've done a good job there, in terms of
grant programs and uh loans to upgrade fire protection equipment within those
establishments. So that's one facet, and I really think that that's the role of the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 59
Fire Department to take the environment by which these activities occur and make
it a safe environment, to the best of our ability. But we're not in there 24-hours a
day.
Champion/ No, L ..I don't expect you to be, but it seems to me that if we're going to
check places for occupancy, that we would check them at midnight or 12:30, that
we wouldn't check them at 10:00 or 11:00, considering our downtown culture.
Now maybe that isn't possible. Maybe it's more complicated than I think it is.
Rocca/ I think we can certainly evaluate that and look at the numbers of people that we
send out (several talking).
Champion/ Because that's when the bars are overcrowded or during a football game. I
mean, some of those bars during the football games are really overcrowded.
People cannot even move. And I think as a, I mean, I don't need to tell you. You
know when people are in those bars drinking. It's during football games. It's
during, it's probably just (laughter). I don't think it's during soccer games, but
um, and late at night, that's when the problems are occurring. And...and my, I'm
talking about safety here too, because that's always been a contention of mine,
that overcrowded bars are unsafe. They're going to be more safe now when
they're all sprinkled, but they're still unsafe. Uh, trying to get out of a place, but
anyway, thank you. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be...
Bailey/ Other questions?
Correia/ Do we...occupancy visits as, a surprise visit?
Rocca/ They're unannounced, that's correct.
Correia/ Unannounced, and so is there at least one visit per establishment that have a
liquor license a year? I mean, is there some...
Roccal No, it'd be more than that. I mean, particularly if you look at the recent schedule.
I think there were numbers like 26 establishments on two different occasions. Uh,
so that's a number, but again, um, it's dependent on staff availability, as well.
Bailey/ Other questions? Thanks.
Dilkes/ I'd suggest that, you know, if you look at the questions I asked at the end of the
memo, the first one is what...what other information do you think you need, and
I, rather than trying to tie the information to the specific strategy, is there just
information...I know Regenia has asked for the PAULA, um, the PAULA list, the
more recent one, um...
Bailey/ Well, I was really interested in seeing that on a regular basis like we used to.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 60
Dilkes/ On a regular basis, or whatever. What.. .
Lombardo/ You'll be getting that on a regular basis.
Bailey/ Okay.
Dilkes/ ...information do you need?
Correia/ I guess, L ..I'm interested in information related to the, um, work... so, and I
know, I guess this would be another...anotherpntential for an additional
ordinance, but as we're talking about evaluating whether, uh, a liquor license
holder is of good moral character, whether the establishment is acting to higher
standards is whether the people that are working in the business at the time that
they're working there, um, are under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and I think
it's...it's pretty standard in many industries and work places that you don't come
to work under the influence of alcohol and drugs, because it impairs your ability
to make good decisions, and it seems like especially in this type of environment,
in a bar, that it has the potential to impair your ability to make good judgments, to
be able to assess whether the person you're serving is, you know, should be being
served because you are under the influence, um, so I would be interested in
looking at having an ordinance that requires all people, you know, employees of a
bar, you know, have those work place drug and alcohol policies that many other
businesses, you know...
Dilkes/ And I think that's poss...very doable. What I think we need to get through is
what other information do you as a group need in order to form a consensus about
what strategies you want to pursue. That maybe one of them.
Bailey/ Well, and I'm interested...I'm interested, this is a strategy I'm interested in
pursuing. I would like to see, um, I would like to hold the bar owners a little
bit...to a little bit higher standard, um, I think what Connie says, concerns about
irresponsible bar ownership, and not saying that everybody is, I'd be interested in
requiring TIPS certification. I'm assuming we can do that. What...what, how
would that work? You know, and I'm interested in requiring scanning machines
for the LD.'s. And how much would that cost, and how would that look, and
then, I mean, what other...what other cities have used that and what results have
they seen. I mean, if there's an issue about underage getting in, I think scanning
machines address that. I know Hy-Vee recently got one, and they are
anticipating...because they had some problems...a problem with PAULA's, and
they took it upon themselves, and I think that that's what a responsible business
owner does. They see a problem, they take it upon themselves to be legally
compliant. So, those are the kinds of things I would want. I don't know if others
agree...
Wright/ Dovetailing onto that, I'd like to see information on wristbanding, since we have
different classes of patrons. We have the, you know, the 21 and up and uh, the 21
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 61
and under. If we had mandatory wristbanding for folks that were not 21. (several
commenting) Red and green, I mean, it'd be fairly simple and I would suspect
that other places do that.
Champion/ I think most bars have (several talking)
Dilkes/ That's why I'm...(several talking)...back up again. I think...I understand what
Regenia's strategies are that she wants to pursue. I have no idea what you as a
group want to pursue in terms of strategies. That's why I'm suggesting that we
back up a minute, say what other information you need. Like you need more
information on wristbanding. Or you may need more information on PAULA's.
What~other information do you as a group need in order to tell staff what
strategies you want us to pursue? Or, are you able to tell us that as a group today?
Bailey/ Are we?
Hayek/ I think we need to let them do their work in response to the issues...
Bailey/ Well, what other information or what other direction should they investigate?
Hayek/ And I'll add, I'd be interested in...in other data sources, other data points out
there comparable to PAULA's that might be used in a bright-line criteria. For
example, public intox within...charges. Current data for that. And I'll (several
talking)...well, Imean, like what I talked about earlier, establishing thresholds
that if you hit those thresholds, you've...you face the automatic loss of your
license, something like that, if we go in that direction.
Dilkes/ I know what you're saying.
O'Donnell/ We have that.
Champion/ I like that, too. But the problem with public intox...(several talking)...oh,
okay, right. Okay, right, all right, all right.
Bailey/ Eleanor's trying to get a list for herself. So, help her develop that list.
Correia/ Let me just say in terms of the goal of reducing over-consumption and the
problems that that creates both for the community and for individuals is that, is
some of the research about increasing price and decreasing advertisement. Want
more information on what we can do...
O'Donnell/ Would we have any way of knowing how many fake LD.'s are confiscated?
I'd like to know that. I remember when one of the bars brought down a stack of
fake I.D.'s that was (several talking).
Wilburn/ It was Brother's.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 62
O'Donnell/ I'd like to know how many of those are taken.
Wilburn/ I don't remember.
Champion/ We don't know if they were all taken in Iowa City.
O'DonnelU I think they were all taken in one bar!
Wilburn/ Yeah, they were...they were taken at one bar, in Iowa City.
Lombardo/ As we're looking at this, too, if there are areas where we think there's room
for change but we don't have that ability based on current Iowa law, uh, could be
a point for you all to advocate through either the League or elsewhere, and we'll
identify that as we go.
Bailey/ Alternative revenue source of locally tax drinks.
Champion/ Oh, perfect! (several commenting)
Bailey/ Well, you know, uh, you know what I mean. An alternative revenue source, uh,
driven by our, um, establishments. A local surcharge. (several commenting)
Champion/ That would solve our problem.
Wright/ Well, actually when you're talking about (several talking)
Bailey/ I think others talked about it.
Champion/ If the city of Chicago has a vehicle tax, why can't we have an alcohol tax?
Bailey/ You know, Des Moines mentioned that actually at the Metro Coalition. I think
that they were kidding, but it's, I mean, we're looking for all kinds of alternative
revenue sources.
Champion/ Hire a policeman to police the bars.
Bailey/ Anything else we need from staff? So, we'll look at zoning, and we'll look at
these other things and we'll schedule another discussion around this.
O'Donnell/ With that, Regenia, we need to know how the University's going to cooperate
with us on this also. To some degree.
Lombardo/ I'll say, I've had some very, uh, productive conversations with, uh, members
of the University who are here this evening, and I'm sure they'd be happy to...to
chat with you this evening, if you're interested.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 63
Bailey/ Um, I think that we should talk about that at another time and have a formal
presentation of what directions they're moving, but I...I know that they're
interested in moving forward. I think that there are some things that we need to
take care of based upon our objectives. So...
Wright/ I do think it's remarkable though that we have Provost Lowe with us this
evening.
Bailey/ Yes. Appreciate that.
Wright/ Wonderful step forward.
Bailey/ So, I think that...I think those discussions will be ongoing. Questions?
Dilkes/ Um, zoning is pretty much ready to go, I think. Now is that something... so are
we collecting information and coming back to you for a group decision about
what you want to pursue?
Bailey/ Do we want to see, are we ready to see an ordinance?
Champion/ I'm ready to see.. .
Wright/ Let's see an ordinance.
Bailey/ Let's see an ordinance. Matt will want to defer it a couple of times, but he'll look
at it. (laughter and several talking) I heard the big sigh!
Hayek/ No, I think.. .
Bailey/ I'm ready to see an ordinance.
Hayek/ I think we're taking on a big issue, uh, and I think we're going to take action
ultimately, but we've asked for a lot of information. I'd rather not enact a little bit
now and a little bit later. I'd rather do it all at once. If you look at the history of
this subject here on this Council, and we kind of step up and we step back, and
we, I'd rather enact (several talking)
Correia/ ...incremental change as well though. I mean, I don't think it's...I think that
there has been, I mean, as Ross has pointed out and just from that, there has been
advancement on the City responding, um, to issues that we're facing over time,
and you know we see what the results are and then we continue to move. I don't
think we have to wait for everything all at once.
Bailey/ Well, and zoning is a specific area that we, I mean, that we have. Let's take a
look and see what we want to monkey with, and (several talking).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 64
Wilburn/ And if I could project forward a little bit, um, L ..I don't think there's anything
wrong with incremental change either. I think it's equally valuable to look at a
comprehensive approach. The challenge is when the Council, uh, past, present
and future hear from different constituency groups. That's where you end up with
the incremental approach. Um, point in case, several bits of information that have
been asked for tonight, and you know, I understand there's...not everyone has
wrestled with it on Council, at the same rate, but uh, the issue of the wristbands.
We've had memos on that. We've had bar owners present information about the
cost and uh, the colors and all of that, uh, and...and if that's a piece of
information you need, then that's a piece of information you need, but I'm just
giving that as an example of how you move from, um, where political pressure
and choice, um, has the effect of fragmenting the comprehensive approach -can
have. I'm not trying to cast a shadow, I'm just letting you know an observation.
Dilkes/ I just want to make...the zoning is not going to come to you as an ordinance. It's
going to come to you very, with the same similar to the memo that Bob Miklo
sent the Council in 2003 with the same questions.
Correia/ Can we get sample ordinances with that? I mean, Bob in his (several talking)
memo talked about the difference (mumbled) have ordinances. If we could
actually, you know, get those and see what they say and.. .
Lombardo/ What we can do is...is, I mean, it seems like that's an avenue you want to
pursue more, uh, aggressively, and so rather than go through the same memo and
questions, I mean, we can frame it and make recommendations with options like
we do in a lot of other things, and...and help you along that dialog, you know,
here's at least something to respond to and what it would look like.
Bailey/ Well, I mean, `cause everybody looked at this memo and looked at these
questions. Are there any things that jump, I mean...I don't know if we're
prepared to look at these now, but I mean, it seems like it's right in front of us. If
the questions are going to be similar, maybe we can look at them now?
Dilkes/ I don't think you want to look at `em now, that that's when...when Council tried
to look at this the last time, these are not easy questions to answer. Would you
agree, Ross?
Wilburn/ Yes.
Dilkes/ And that's where we got bogged down the last time, and I think starting at 9:00 to
try and answer those is...is probably not the best thing to do.
Bailey/ Okay, but...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 65
Correia/ I wanted to see actual ordinances, because I mean I read the memo and looked at
the questions and I think something that would help me would be to just see those,
what those ordinances say, in communities that...that I'm familiar with, that I'm
familiar with (mumbled)
Bailey/ So, take a look at these questions and be prepared to answer them. Yeah, if
they're hard they're hard, but I mean, at some point if we're going to move
forward with this we're going to have to answer some hard questions. So...
Wilburn/ I have a, if I may, I have a question for Michael. I don't know if he would need
or would benefit from guidance from Council on this, uh, tonight or just for
something for him to think about, if he could hear it from us. At the retreat and
again tonight, I've heard you refer to comprehensive strategies, um, my question
is, are you talking about comprehensive strategies in terms of intervention
enforcement, or are you talking about broader in terms of education and some of
the things that some of the existing community agencies do?
Lombardo/ I think both. I think there's things that you can act on now and then I think
there are other relationships and other things that we can either help facilitate
or...or partner with other organizations, um, and come up with strategies for
solving. Not to say that we would be the service provider, uh, but certainly I
think...I think, um, moving that dialog forward with those partners would be
advisable.
Wilburn/ And so my question for Council, and maybe to let Michael know either tonight
or to give him...if that's something that you are, you would like to hear from us,
is it the broader picture that Michael referred to, or is it related to intervention and
enforcement, and the reason I ask that is because, um, when we end up talking
about, um, partnerships and how we can, um, that's a direction that can end up
with, um, another commission with people from different aspects and we've
already had the list of the different groups that...that formed or not, um, which
there may be a different outcome or um, you know, is the Council interested
primarily in the enforcement, intervention due to our responsibility from the State
in terms of enforcing liquor license. Liquor license in general regardless of
whether you're over or under 21, or um, you know, so enforcement or broader
picture is my, I guess my question for Council.
Champion/ A broader picture would be helpful. (several commenting)
Wilburn/ I just wanted to make sure that, you know, um, if you are pursuing an avenue
that wasn't going to be accepted on the Council, you know, that you didn't waste
your time.
Lombardo/ Right, well, and it doesn't have to be me, you know, there are other, uh,
people out there who are ready to...yeah, pick up their end of it and move
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 66
forward, and we could play a role in, um, enhancing that dialog from the City's
perspective, and not taking the lead on it, certainly.
Wilburn/ I just wanted to clarify that. So...
Bailey/ Okay, are we ready to leave this discussion? Do you have what you need? I
could have gone on for two more hours, but okay. All right. (several talking)
Council time. All good? Schedule of pending discussion items. I anticipate that
this will come back to us...
Schedule of Pending Discussion Items:
Lombardo/ There's, I mean, there's a lot to cover here, and we'll bring it back in pieces, I
would presume. Not all at once, and so we'll just keep this ongoing as we pull
together data and information and you want to see it, we'll get it to you. Um, and
if you want to discuss it we can. As we get draft ordinances together, we'll put it
on, I mean, we'll just keep this as an ongoing dialog.
Bailey/ Okay. Um, upcoming community events or Council invitations? I have none.
Upcoming Community Events/Council Invitations:
Lombardo/ ICAD luncheon tomorrow. I have tickets available for those.
Bailey/You have something?
Karr/ I've got a number of things. Um, you all got invitations, uh, tonight for the
employee luncheon in November in your packets. You can give them to me
tonight or tomorrow night, whenever. Uh, secondly, um, the awards breakfast,
um, Human Rights is Thursday morning. If any of you are going, and haven't
committed, uh, yes, I've got Regenia going, but is there anybody (several talking)
Okay, Regenia and Amy. Is there anyone else? We need to get the count in.
(several commenting) Regenia and Amy? Going once. Regenia and Amy going
twice.
Bailey/ I hope there will be staff there. I mean, it's our event.
Karr/ Okay. No, we'll take (several talking). Okay. It's Thursday.
Wilburn/ Um, I would like to go.
Karr/ Ross. I'll bring the tickets tomorrow night.
Wilburn/ Okay. Thank you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 67
Karr/ Also the, uh, National League of Cities meeting is in Orlando October 11 through
the 15th. I haven't heard from any of you. I have voting delegate information I
need and I have a deadline.
Wright/ October 11th through the 15th is now.
Karr/ I'm sorry, November. (laughter) November 11. October is the deadline, uh, for
delegate information. November 11 through the 15, is there anyone interested or
anticipating going to the National League of Cities? (several commenting)
Hayek/ Uh, before we move on, on November 11 is the Veterans' Day banquet.
Typically we've had a City presence there. I will be there (several talking) okay.
Somebody, whether it's you or somebody else, uh, should plan on.. .
Bailey/ I'll check my calendar and let people know (both talking) doesn't mean that
others shouldn't attend.
O'Donnell/ (mumbled)
Bailey/ The business P.M. is Thursday. Okay? Meeting schedules.
Discussion of Meeting Schedules:
Karr/ Um, we had a memo also to set aside maybe some dates for meeting with area
legislators. Typically...I had a memo in the Information Packet...typically we do
that before the legislative session begins, and we'd like to send out invitations
soon after the elections as possible, and wondering if we could possibly come up
with two or three dates tonight that we could set aside right after the election. I
could send it out to our legislators and confirm that date with you. We've done it
at various times -early in the morning, prior to a work session, Saturday
mornings.
Bailey/ Is there a preference for an evening or a Saturday?
Champion/ Saturday.
Bailey/ Is that a Saturday preference? I heard two. (several commenting) Okay. Let's
look at Saturdays in November, following the election. (mumbled)
Karr/ We might be looking at early December by the time we got the invitations out.
Bailey/ So are there any Saturdays that won't work? Let's start there.
Champion/ No, I think Thanksgiving Saturday probably won't work.
Bailey/ Let's avoid Thanksgiving Saturday.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.
October 20, 2008 City Council Work Session Page 68
Karr/ That would be the 29tH
Correia/22°a doesn't work.
Wilburn/ 22°d doesn't work.
Bailey/ Okay.
Karr/ And I would imagine the 15th isn't going to be soon enough, so that's in December.
What about the 6th
Hayek/ Of December?
Karr/ Yes.
Bailey/ In the morning, fine. Sixth, that's one date. You wanted how many?
Karr/ 13th? Another Saturday? (several commenting) Is there...if Saturdays don't
work...we have two Saturdays, the 6th or the 13th. Is there another one that might
work? (several talking)
Hayek/ Yeah, it's, uh, ground zero time for.. .
Karr/ Quite frankly I don't think three Saturdays is a good selection of time. I mean, two
Saturdays wouldn't be bad...
Correia/ What about doing it on, what about before the work session on December lst~
Karr/ The work session of December 1St would be a possibility.
Correia/ 5:30 on December lst~
Champion/ That'd be good.
Karr/ Okay, so we'll offer the 6th or the 11th in the A.M., and prior to the work session on
the l St. Okay.
Wright/ 6th and (mumbled)
Karr/ 13th. That's an "or."
Bailey/ Got what you need? Okay. See you tomorrow night. 7:00 Connie! (laughter)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council regular work session meeting of October 20, 2008.