HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003-01-15 TranscriptionJanuary ! 5, 2003 Budget Work Session Page 1
January 15, 2003 Council Budget Work Session 8:00 AM
Council: Champion, Kauner, Lehman, O'Donnell, Pfab (8:15), Vanderhoef,
Wilbum
Staff: Atkins, Flelling, Herting, Karr, Lewis, Mansfield, O'Malley
TAPE: 03-07 & 03-08, BOTH SIDES
Lehman: Irvin's a little bit late getting here and the rest of us are here so let's go
Steve.
Atkins: You got it. Excuse me. Today we want to devote the morning to
capital projects. You'll all remember this list. I have extra copies if
anybody needs one...needs one and you'll also remember the
unfunded. Those are the two documents that we'll be working from
today. The capital improvement projects each have a staff person who
is sort of the lead. What I'm going to have them do is again working
from this list come up, take you thru the project - feel free to question
them, other staff members will be available to help you out. And with
that I'm ready to launch in. Joe has an absolute can't get out of
commitment this morning so he gets to go first. We're going to jump
around a little bit. It should be...you okay? Joe, you're up. Yeah
come up here and here's the lavaliere. This map is a general
representation of all the projects. I mean it's a City map and as you
can see it should have them identified for you.
Parking & Transit
Joe Fowler: Parking and transit has four different projects listed. Some of them are
unknown elements and I'll go thru that. The first project is the Court
Street Transportation Center/Near Southside Transportation Center
depending on if you notably changed the name to Court Street. It was
a...started off as a 10.7 million dollar project. To date we've received
2.6 million dollars. We are awaiting funding on 8.7 million dollars.
Lehman: Has that been approved?
Fowler: No. We had an initial markup in house for 2 million dollars we had
earmarked from the Senate for 8 million dollars which would have
meant at that point it would have gone to conference committee and
they would have decided how much we were going to get. After the
elections they have decided to redo those and so at this point we do not
know what funding will be available. Are understanding was they
were to mark those up last Friday on the Senate side, but we've not
been able to hear anything. We've contacted Senate representatives
and we haven't heard anything. We haven't seen anything on any
websites. So we don't know if they did it and...or where we stand on
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that. In addition the House is adjourned until January 28th which
means that it's going to be at least February before they get together
and begin to discuss the funding. So what we're going to get this year
is totally up in the air at this point - unable to tell you.
Lehman: But this whole project is contingent on that funding?
Fowler: Yes it is.
Lehman: Okay. Alright.
Fowler: The second item which is also contingent on Federal funding is the bus
acquisition 1,680,000. I really don't anticipate that we will be
awarded any buses this year. We have six buses that need to be
replaced...that are eligible to be replaced. But at the current time in
the State of Iowa...the State lists all the buses in the State by the age
and the number of miles that they have and then they start with the
oldest and the most miles and work their way down. Currently in the
State of Iowa there's $37,135,140 worth of buses requested out of
Federal funding. They would have to award over 10 million dollars to
the State of Iowa before we get to the first Iowa City bus that could be
replaced on the current list. That could all change because if you take
a City...it was Ames - puli all their buses off because they said they
didn't have replacement money at the time so if somebody that comes
in that's ahead of us and says we don't have to local funding this year
to get our buses we pull them off and then could move down the list.
It's all kind of subjective as to where we would end up. Right now I
really don't anticipate that we would get...
O'Donnell: Joe what is...is it 12 years and so many hundred thousand miles?
Fowler: 250,000 is what we...
O'Donnell: How many are...how many do we have in that category?
Fowler: Six.
O'Donnell: Six?
Fowler: Yes.
Vanderhoef: 12 years and what?
Fowler: 250,000 miles.
Lehman: And you're showing that in '03. Would you assume if we don't '03 it
would reappear in '04?
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Fowler: '04 we would be far enough down the list if we get the anticipated
funding this year and nobody drops out '04 we would probably be.
Lehman: So that $290,000 really needs to be moved '04.
Fowler: Probably.
Lehman: Okay.
Kanner: Is there any local money in this?
Fowler: It's 83 % Federal funding, 17% local funding.
Kanner: And are you looking at buses different from what we have now as far
as fuel types and as far as entrance? Are you looking at some of the
low...the no step entrance buses which are more and more popular?
Fowler: We're not looking at the low-floor buses at this time. I've talked to
the bus sales representatives and I've talked to different properties that
have them. The low-floor bus because of its design the wheel wells
are then inside in the passenger compartment area. So if you're
running full buses which we do quite often during our peak time it
takes three low-wheel buses to haul the same number of passengers
that two standard buses do because you lose seating and capacity with
the low floor.
Kanner: But if we're going to be innovative in hopefully in the future mixing
our para-transit and fixed-route transit it seems that the low, no-step
entranceway might be part of the solution to making it more accessible
to more people so we move people into the less costly form of
transportation. Don't you think it would be in the mix there? I do. It
makes sense. It seems to work well in other cities like Madison. It a
wonderful bus to get on.
Fowler: Right. And we've talked with Johnson County SEATS because of the
vehicles that we own there and looked at upgrading those vehicles
from the light duty that they have now to kind of the medium duty bus
which would be like the bionic bus that you see running around with
the low floor and to integrate those in. And that we would be able to
use them in the off-peak hours. The...we could easily go to the low-
floor bus, but it would require additional buses and additional drivers.
And i£that funding is available then we could. But if we go to the
low-floor bus without increasing the fleet size and the number
employees we could end up with capacity problems.
Karmer: The capacity does that involve people standing when you figure that
in?
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Fowler: The seating is almost the same. It's the standees that would be the
problem. Yeah.
Kanner: The seating is the same in the two types of buses?
Fowler: They can get almost as many seats within a couple seats.
Kanner: And you're saying standing...
Fowler: Right. You run...you go back probably two-thirds the way of the bus
and then there's a series of steps up to higher level and you lose any
standing in the step area. There's also been some maintenance
problems with them in some of the cities because of the low floor.
They've had problems with valves on air tanks being broken off
because of ground clearance. I mean on certain routes, you know, they
would be great. It would be great if we had the money that we wanted
to increase our fleet size.
Kanner: And what about engine using natural gas perhaps or biodiesel?
Fowler: We use a very mild soy mix right now about 2% soy or diesel. We
looked at increasing that number. We felt that it was cost-prohibitive
and we checked with the engine manufacturers and the problem is as it
was years ago when people switched from gasoline to ethanol that all
the seals in the engine begin to deteriorate so if you want to go with a
high mixture of soy diesel it needs to be done from the initial purchase
of the vehicle. So if we did that it would require separate storage tanks
and mix and what I've read in the paper I'm not able to say, you know,
anything other than what I read in the paper was that subsidy for the
soy diesel appeared to lessening and they anticipated that that cost
would increase quite a bit on soy diesel.
Vanderhoefi So how much difference is there cost per gallon?
Fowler: I think right now we're paying probably 2, 3 cents a gallon more to get
the mild mixture that we have. And I honestly can't give you the
price. I know we looked at it and I don't remember what it was.
Vanderhoefi And where we have a special tank for that mixture - so we've already
got an extra tank if we were to choose...
Fowler: No, we're at the point right now that we can go to without doing any
damage to the engine as far as the internal components. If we would
increase our soy mixture it would dissolve the gaskets and everything.
Vanderhoef: Well what I'm saying is it would also mean then an additional
underground storage facility and pump if you were to go...
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Fowler: Yes. If we go to it with the new bus purchase.
Vanderhoef: And what kind of cost is it?
Fowler: 1 don't know.
Pfab: You saying 2 or 3 cents over...what's the total number?
Fowler: We're paying just over a dollar a gallon.
Pfab: About 2 or 3 cents over.
Lehman: I think we all hear what you're saying that you can't go to a higher
percentage of soy without significant issues with the present fleet.
Fowler: Correct.
Lehman: So as far as at least next year's budget is concerned that's not an issue.
Fowler: Right.
Lehman: And as far as next year's budget is concerned buses are not going to be
funded this year doesn't look like. So it will be next year. And then
you'll obviously you'll be looking at the cost of the lower buses and
the number of units and the costs of personnel and you really aren't
considering that because of cost.
Fowler: You know there are some routes the low floor could work on but in a
system like we have where we only have two spare buses ifa bus
breaks do~vn we can't guarantee what route it's going to be on. I
personally would be concerned about passenger constraints if we went
to the low floor bus.
O'Donnell: And clearance is really an issue with those on some of the streets.
Fowler: According to the people in Rochester, Minnesota they were having air
valves broken off the air tanks underneath the buses because of
intersections where there was a hump in the middle and with the low
floor they were dragging.
Lehman: I think we've got some of those intersections.
Champion: Really.
Lehman: Okay.
Fowler: The parking garage maintenance. It's a program that we do. We try to
do every two years. It's the concrete repair, water proofing material
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applied and the joints between the concrete need to be replaced
periodically. And this is a project that we've been required to do by
our bonding that we are required to maintain our facilities. And so far
it's been a very successful program if you look at the concrete and
condition of the parking facilities that are over 20 years old we haven't
had any significant problems to date. Right now we're having
facilities evaluated by Shive-Hattery and we think this year the
majority of the work will be in the Dubuque Street ramp. There's
some concretes spalling in there and the protective coating is starting
to wear.
Champion: What is that word mean?
Lehman: Spalling.
Champion: Spalling. What does that mean?
Fowler: The concrete is kind of coming up in chunks.
Champion: Oh okay.
Fowler: And we think the majority of the work is going to be in Dubuque
Street ramp and Chauncey Swan this year.
Champion: Everybody else (can't hear).
Pfab: Can you go back just one time. Where as far as EPA I guess it is
problems with diesel fuel. Are we getting any...is that getting to be a
problem?
Fowler: Our engine suppliers are the people that are mandated to come up with
a cleaner burning engine. And so when we go ahead and purchase
buses the next time it will be with the cleaner burning engines that are
mandated.
Pfab: Because of EPA.
Fowler: Uh-huh.
Lehman: You know that last parking ramp redo or whatever really did a
tremendous job. I mean even that Dubuque Street ramp at least the
first four levels are in remarkable good condition. That's been three
years hasn't it?
Fowler: That's about five years that that's stuff been there.
Lehman: And it's amazing. Whoever did that really, really did a great job with
it.
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Fowler: Yeah we...will do what we...you know I can't tell you for sure what
we would do, but we would anticipate then that we ~vould do the
majority of the work next time on Capital Street if we can do Dubuque
and Chauncey Swan this time.
Lehman: Well the maintenance is a no-brainer. That's something we have to
do. Okay, questions for Joe?
Vanderhoef: Just a request that when it appears that we're going to be getting new
buses I would like to have some (can't hear) breakout on new pump
and underground tank.
Lehman: Okay.
Champion: On what Dee?
Vanderhoef: On new pump and underground tank for the higher mixture of soy
diesel.
Lehman: Okay. But I don't sense at this point that you're necessarily
considering a higher concentration of soy diesel even in new vehicles.
Am I just reading that?
Fowler: That would be something that would depend on...
Lehman: Cost.
Fowler: ...cost. Totally. And we would work with Tom Hansen and Ron
Stoner in equipment who do the actual purchase of fuel to determine
what the costs ~vould be and project it out over the life.
Lehman: Okay. Anything else for Joe?
Fowler: I've got one more here.
Lehman: Oh, I'm sorry.
Fowler: It's a land acquisition and it is a land acquisition for the general fund.
Currently the parking division is the owner of the Union Bus Depot
and the You-Smash-em building. And those were initially purchased
with parking funds as potential site for future parking facilities. And
with Chauncey Swan a quarter block away it's felt that there are other
potential development on that site that is better than the parking and
we would transfer the title - if you want to say title since it's all owned
by the same person - but anyway from the Parking Division to the
General Fund. Then the General Fund would proceed with the
development of that.
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Lehman: Okay.
Kanner: Joe, when was that bought? That piece of property?
Fowler: They were purchased in the mid-'70's. I couldn't give you the exact
date on that.
Kanner: So we've paid off the bond?
Fowler: I think they were actually bought with cash reserves.
Kanner: Cash reserves. And so it...where does that $400,000 go to in Parking
and Transit?
Fowler: It would go into our improvement and reserve fund.
Kanner: And what if you didn't get it what would be the effect?
Lehman: We'd do it again.
Atkins: I don't mean to be smart alecy, Steve, it'd just be a smaller fund. I
mean that's really all it would be. It is not...the parking fund is in
reasonably good order financially.
Kanner: ! think that's one thing we could consider...we should discuss not
doing that transfer. That's a big chunk of money from the General
Fund and I don't see the dire need for the infusion into parking.
Lehman: It doesn't come until '06 anyway.
Champion: Oh, well that's a long way.
Lehman: So that's a long ways away.
Fowler: That's it.
Lehman: Thank you, Sir.
Champion: Thank you.
Atkins: Terry?
Parks & Recreation
Terry Trueblood: Steve did you want me to do all the Parks & Recreation projects or
just...?
Atkins: All the Parks and Recreation projects.
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Trueblood: All one of them? Well I think there's three actually.
Atkins: Thank you. Yeah.
Trueblood: Well okay I guess we'll just go in order. The first one is Miller
Orchard Park - third from the top - $200,000. I think you're all
familiar with where it is, but just in case you aren't I got this aerial
photo if you could pass that around please.
Pfab: Which are we talking yellow or olive?
Trueblood: I will explain that to you.
Pfab: Okay.
Trueblood: The yellow highlighted portion is the two acres of property that the
City already owns. It was purchased a couple years ago - a
combination of parkland acquisition funds and Community
Development Block Grant funds. The pink portion is what was
highlighted when we were talking about this previously of the
additional two acres that we would to acquire to make a four acre park.
The northern three-quarters of that pink area now has been - or is
being is acquired I should say - it's not finalized yet through a
neighborhood open space dedication. So there would be no cost to the
City and Commission has indicated to the attorney of the owner that
we might be interested in purchasing an additional half acre through
parkland acquisition funds to bring that four acres up...or to bring that
to four acres. I can tell you that the attorney has indicated that he
thinks we could work something out. So we'll have either 3 ½ or 4
acres of land there. And then this $200,000 is to work with the
neighborhood in developing a 3 ½ or 4 acre park. Right now
indications are that it probably be primarily the passive nature as
opposed to, you know, a large playground or anything like that within
the park.
Vanderhoef: What did we pay per acre when we bought the last time?
Trneblood: We paid, ifI...as I recall it was $135,000 for the two acres.
Vanderhoefi $135,000 divided four...
Lehman: $62,500. Is that right? $67,500.
Trneblood: And almost half of that was paid out of Community Development
Block Grant funds - not quite half. So anyway I had indicated to the
attorney that the Commission might be willing to do something along
those lines on that same per acre cost and he thought that sounded
reasonable, but of course he's just representing the owner. So we
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don't know yet. At any rate this project you may recall was ranked as
the number one priority by the Parks and Recreation Commission a
couple of years ago. And then last year it was deferred to what is it
'05 I believe right now. Is that what it's showing? And for a couple
of reasons. One is because the neighborhood had indicated they
didn't...they really didn't want to do any significant development in
that area until we could acquire more land. And the other one was to
so that that funding could go toward to Water works Park project and
give that a good jumpstart so to speak. That's pretty much it on that
project unless you have questions. Steven?
Karmer: Does that price include plans for a fence? I know there's concern
about kids crossing the street and there was talk, I think, about putting
a fence there so people would have to come to the comer.
Trueblood: We don't have a detailed plan with a detailed cost estimate as yet, but
that is - you're right - that is one of the things that has been discussed
is possibly putting a fence along the northern portion of that property
so that would direct traffic to a main entrance located off of Miller
Avenue. So that's certainly one of the things that will be considered.
Kanner: So you're not sure if this $200,000 would include the fence?
Trueblood: What I'm saying is if the final plan ends up including that fence as a
priority by the neighborhood, by you folks, by the Commission then
yes it's included in that. The $200,000 is a, for lack of a better term, a
kind of a generic figure right now that we will develop that to the
extent of $200,000. And if the fence is a priority that will be included.
Kanner: And how much do we have in parkland acquisition?
Trueblood: Right now we have in round figures $300,000.
Vanderhoef: $327,000.
Kanner: $327,000.
Vanderhoef: Uh-huh.
Kanner: And that's where the funding would come out of those reserves?
Lehman: No, this is for...
Trueblood: For development, no, no. If we purchase that additional half acre
that's where the funding would come from. But that's not where the
funding comes from for the development of the parkland. That's GO
funding I believe.
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Lehman: Right.
Trueblood: Okay. The next of the projects down about the middle of the page -
City Park Pool filtration system - $200,000. That's a project that as
you know is under way right now in the sense that it's out to bid. We
will be opening bids on January 28th I believe it is and then bring it to
you at your next meeting February 4th or there abouts. Hopefully with
a good price where you can approve going ahead with the project. We
will be finished with it in May so it will be up and running for the
smnmer season. It's essentially replacing the entire filtration system.
Any questions about that particular one?
Lehman: That one we know about.
Trueblood: Yeah. Excuse me for just a minute. Here's a picture you've all seen
many times. Water works Park project. If you recall last year we had
considerable discussion about this project and getting it started this
fiscal year. There has been some change in the funding of it but for
the current year.., for the current fiscal year most of the budget in there
would be used for what you might call the infrastructure portion of it -
finishing up the...not finishing up, but continuation of the hard surface
trails. Primarily up at the north end of the park where the northeast
section where you will see that small parking lot that's a parking lot
that we at Parks and Recreation as well as the folks in the Public
Works Department specifically the Water Division would very much
like to see that parking lot completely so that that could be the parking
lot used by the park and trail users and keep them from using the
parking lot up around the water plant so much. It would also be an
important tie-in to connect up with that trail along north Dubuque
Street that the County just renovated in the last couple years. It would
finish the trail connection over to the parking lot from within the park.
And the prairie seeding portion of it, as you might recall, most of this
property is going to be put in prairie seed, wildflowers, native trees,
that sort of thing. The funding for the current fiscal year would allow
us to get a start on that prairie seeding, but a relatively small start.
And then the bulk of that would then happen either next fall in the
fiscal year or perhaps even the following spring. So we're looking at
prairie grasses and wildflowers over more than I00 acres of the land
out there. Future improvements would likely also include like a some
type of a boat ramp for river access out near that north parking lot.
We're still talking about the possibility of a fishing pier on the large
pond there, some small open air park shelters. This summer would be,
I believe - Chuck, correct me if I'm wrong - but the pad for what we
have called an amphitheatre for lack ora better term. Don't want you
to get us wrong now it's not going to be a big sh. ell out there where we
have, you know, Elvis concerts or anything like that. The
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amphitheater itself is just a grassy area where people can sit on a
higher slope and look down to a small platform where there can be
presentations, educational sessions, you know that sort of thing. A
matter of fact the hillside is already there because it was done as part
of the overall grading plan.
Vanderhoefi Where is this on the map?
Lehman: Right next to the water plant building I think where it says section C.
Isn't that about where it is?
Trueblood: Right in there is the amphitheatre portion of it. Right there. And of
course there's the parking lot I was talking about. Some ofthese...the
red lines are some changes that we felt needed to be made to the
original concept plan. So there are some changes, but basically overall
it's staying relatively intact.
Pfab: How big a pad are you (can't hear) whatever you call it?
Trueblood: The pad for the amphitheater? You know ! don't really recall. Do you
know just offlnand Chuck? The size of the pad for the amphitheater.
About this big. Just 10 feet. Yeah it's not a big one because as i said
it's not intended to have groups of people down there. It's intended to
have, you know, one or two people giving presentations.
Pfab: Well I just wanted to know what small pad means. That's all.
Tmeblood: Less than 10,000 square feet is what a small pad means.
Kanner: Do you think...do you envision someone being able...a group being
able to reserve it, have a guitar player, a little concert or something
there at the amphitheater?
Tmeblood: I suppose that's possible, but that's not really what we envisioned for
this particular area. Like I said before what it's envisioned is when we
have like school groups or other groups out there that are maybe on a
field trip and we can have a naturalist off somebody el se's staff
because we don't have one, but...
Vanderhoef: Got that in there.
Trueblood: ...on the concrete pad with the children on the slope and that kind of
thing. That wouldn't preclude the other thing, but it certainly...the
whole park is not intended for large groups at one time.
Pfab: You talked about delaying part of the prairie seeding...phase it in?
Trueblood: Right because that's the way the budget is set up.
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Pfab: Okay. Alright. Is there without...by phasing it in is there much
problem of erosion?
Trueblood: No. It's got ground cover over it already. That would be a problem if
we didn't already have the ground cover.
Lehman: I guess this is maybe more a question for Steve than you Terry, but
how much impact is security going to be on this site as we look
down...down the trail? You know you asked about concert and I
know there's...
Vanderhoef: Homeland security.
Lehman: ... a certain amount of concern about water supplies and this sort of
thing. Is that going to impact?
Atkins: There is a security review that we're now required to do and Chuck
and the Department staff is working on it now with respect to the plant
site. And we've sort of taken a very general position, Ernie, that the
water plant site is intended to produce water and that we are going do
our best to kind of limit the traffic in and out other than that
specifically intended. That's why I think Terry's idea of the parking
lot to the north we can draw folks away and still let the - and as you
know this is really a great project, we really want them to enjoy the
park and the components. But it's going to get built into it. I honestly
don't know the implications just yet on how it's all going to shake out.
Lehman: I think we all agree with that, but ! guess I'm...down the road are we
looking at the possibility that access to that park might be limited
because of security.
O'Donnell: I think it's very possible.
Atkins: I think there's the possibility of it and what we might have to do is not
only direct traffic up to the northern spot, the smaller parking lot, but
the entrance we may have to actually build another roadway that
directs you away from the water plant. ! mean we could do those
things.
Lehman: No, my question is what happens if...do we ever envision ourselves in
a situation where the public is not allowed on that property?
Atkins: No. No.
Lehman: Okay.
Atkins: I can't comprehend that. I think that if we have a security system that
secures that building... I mean other than something catastrophic
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somebody flies and airplane into it or something really dramatic - we
can secure that building.
Lehman: Well we have a series of wells along the river.
Atkins: Those are secured as well.
Lehman: Okay.
Atkins: As well. Yes. They are.
Lehman: They're well secured?
Atkins: Those wells will also be secured.
Lehman: Okay.
Trueblood: A couple of things I failed to mention to. One is they...there's the
Butler House component in this budget and essentially what that is
part of the funding for the parking lot comes from that - Jeff what is it
funding? - transportation enhancement funding So that's another
reason for having a parking lot out there and building an accessible
walkway if you will up to the Butler House. There's no plans right
now there's nothing in this budget anyway for any kind ofreinvasion
of the Butler House or anything like that. It's just to get people up
there to see it from the outside. The other thing I failed to mention too
is that this is the current number one priority of the Parks and
Recreation Commission. Irvin?
Pfab: Is the...is the Butler House in the state where deterioration is
somewhat (can't hear).
Trueblood: Well there was money put into that a couple of years ago to moth bail
it, secure it from the outside and to, as I recall, there were a couple of
large trees removed or trimmed back that were causing damage to the
roof. I don't recall what all was done on it.
Lehman: It's kind of shrink-wrapped if you drive by it.
Trueblood: Okay. I'll agree with that.
Lehman: I think we've done all we can to keep...
Tmeblood: We have three people out here that can answer that question better
than I could, but they don't want to, I guess.
Lehman: Isn't it kind of shrink-wrapped?
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Davidson: It's been stabilized. There's was a new roof put on it and I think the
intentions been. There was a study done Brad Neumann could get
you a copy of it if you're interested in seeing the whole report, but
there was a report done by a historian that said it was acceptable to
keep it in kind ora moth ball condition while funds for it's eventually
reinvasion, you know, over the next how ever many years were
obtained to eventually do that. So I think it's in state now where it's
not going to deteriorate further. And it's intended eventually to restore
it, but as Terry mentioned as an interim measure we want to get people
up to just look at the exterior of it, so that they're aware of it and that
will probably help in the efforts to raise money.
Trueblood: Anything else?
Vanderhoef: Is there any plan for putting any kind of signage around the house so
that people know what they're looking at when they see it.
Trueblood: I believe that's part of it, is that not correct?
Davidson: The historic preservation plan said that as the first step to do exactly
that. Get people up to the exterior of it, have signage around the
exterior, you know maybe even have a place where you could have a
window where people could look inside, but nothing beyond that.
Trueblood: Anything else?
Champion: Are you done? What about...
Trueblood: Am I done?
Atkins: You're done.
Champion: I have a question.
Atkins: Go ahead.
Champion:: Have you talked at all about (can't hear) minutes about a handicap
(can't hear) positioning? Is that ever possible? Have you talked about
that at the Commission level?
Trueblood: Not at the Commission level, but we've talked about it at the Staff
level. Now are you talking about for out here, for City Park or
anywhere? A matter of fact the...we've been discussing the next time
the water access grants come available as putting in for one of those
and doing one out at City Park. We do have, by the way right now
with the new...remember the trails were all renovated out there and we
put in a couple of new loops there are a number of areas that are
accessible near the water. They just can't get out over the water. But
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close enough they could actually throw a line out. But certainly it's
not as good as if we had an actual pier.
Lehman: One other question. Also on the CIP the Iowa River Power Dam is
obviously part of the water plant park of it, but there's about 1.2
million of that project that is general obligation debt and I believe
that's for the bridge...the trail portion. Is that...1 mean that's kind of
Parks and Rec is it not?
Atkins: We're going to have a discussion of that shortly, but that's general
you're correct Ernie. There's a recreational component to the Power
Dam. Its primary purpose is to create the pool of water for the water
plant.
Lehman: Right. But that is the 1.2 million?
Atkins: Yeah. The recreational purpose is also a public safety purpose for the
ability to get at folks who might go over.
O'Donnell: Coralville (can't hear) part of that 1.2?
Lehman: Yeah, $35,000 I think.
O'Donnell: I thought it was $200,000.
Atkins: No, they've got...yeah I don't think it's...I know it's not $35,000. I'm
not quite so sure it's $200,000. But Coralville does have a piece of the
obligation.
O'Donnell: But that's part of the 1.2 million?
Atkins: Yeah. There should be a line item - I don't have it in front - there
should be a line item that shows other funds or something such as that.
It says about $200,000 Mike you're correct.
Trueblood: There's grant funding in there that some of you may recall it's sort
of...it was agreed to by us for if Coralville did all the work to write the
grant for the REAP grant a few years ago, but it had to actually come
from Iowa City. So they did all the work to put it together, we signed
off on it so it was sort of giving Coralville credit for that...
Atkins: Hold that thought we're going to give you an update on that project.
Vanderhoefi Likewise I'd like to see the Meadow Street Bridge and trail connection
I want to see what we're getting connected by doing that.
Atkins: Okay. That's coming up to. We'll do that for you here today.
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Vanderhoef: Okay.
Atkins: That's all for Terry. Thanks Terry.
O'Donnell: That's the fastest he's ever been.
Vanderhoef: Is he complaining? Maybe.
Wilbum: Not in front of us anyway.
Atkins: Rick ready to go?
Champion: It's called the lack of big bucks.
Vanderhoef: Good catch.
Wilbum: Thanks.
Public Works / Engineering
Fosse: Does that work for you all?
Pfab: I believe you could also turn it more and still not affect anybody.
Fosse: Okay. That work for you Ross?
Wilburn: That's fine.
Fosse: Can you see? Okay. A little bit about the map before I begin. These
are the projects in the capital program. The projects are shown in red
with the exception of sanitary sewers. We showed them in black
simply because it gets a little confusing in some areas there where
they're close to roadways so we set them apart. And then shown in the
half-tone reds is the service area that's opened up by the projects
which you see there. And I've got the acreages on there and I can read
hose off to you if you're interested in those. And then the yellow area
in the center is the tarp area and Steve will be talking about that -
Steve Nasby in a little while. So with that let's go ahead and dive in
and we'll just go through the projects in the order that you've got them
in your budget there. The first one is the Mormon Trek extended
bringing that on from Highway 1 around to 921 and that's a two-phase
project. What will be bid this summer is the paving down to about the
airport property and in addition to that these two sanitary sewers, the
one coming up along Highway 6 and then this other one that goes out
and relieves the lift station out at WB development. It's...both, both
projects are rolled together into one bid package and both are
necessary for development to occur. You need both the transportation
component and the sanitary sewer. An important part of the sewer
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project is there's a private lift station that serves the other side of the
interstate right now and it is very much undersized. It was sized pretty
much just for a used car dealership and it's hampered development in
that area. So this sewer will go all the way out alleviate that and it will
be sized to accept a lift station that may go in over here. And so
potentially this service area could be larger and it does open up these
areas here. The next phase of the project will be continuing the paving
on out to 921 over in there. Any questions on that one?
Vm~derhoef: Do you have any idea how many acres might get added with that lift
station on the west side of 2187
Fosse: We've got 595 acres here and perhaps another 40 or so. There's a
break in the watershed both this direction and this direction. The
sewer is being sized to give us some flexibility to pick up area over
here if it develops and is sent in by lift station. This is the Old Man
Creek watershed that goes down here. And this is the Willow Creek
watershed. And when this neighborhood was developed the sewer was
sized only to serve what's east of the interstate. And if you recall
when we've had some past projects to upgrade sewers north of here to
serve this area it'd be difficult, but not impossible to upgrade the sewer
through this area. But another option that might better is just sending
those flows this direction.
Vanderhoefi But that would give us one more comer, shall we say, on the exit.
Fosse: Yeah. This quadrant right here and there's already some interest in
that. And what we hope to do is put this together in a package that's
going to get the sanitary sewer done this year because this project
probably won't be bid until the middle of May. So it'll be a two
construction season project. We'd like to complete the sanitary sewer
this year so that these development issues can move forward out here.
Vanderhoef: And what's the cost approximately on a lift station?
Fosse: Oh, if someone were to build one? It...Chuck do you know? Can you
shoot from the hip on that one? Okay.
Pfab: How much?
Fosse: $30,000 to $40,000 for a 40-acre lift station.
Kanner: Rick, show me where the growth boundary limits are on that map.
Fosse: Karin, can you do that? Can you point that out?
Vanderhoef: The dotted line.
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Fosse: Yeah.
Franklin: This shows the south-central district which has our growth boundary
on it. What Rick is showing you, ifI could just contrast it a little bit,
has an expansion in our growth boundary on the west side of218 in
this area right in here. So we'll have to consider that whether we're
going to expand our growth boundary in this area right here. This
shows our growth boundaries that we currently have established.
Kanner: Our growth boundaries were set up in part to limit going beyond the
natural gravitation...
Franklin: Well it depends on what spin you put on it. The growth boundaries
were determined by two factors. One was our capacity to provide
gravity sewer which is what you're siting. The other was any political
decisions. And there was a political decision on the west side to
extend it to the west to 965 - to that new alignment of 965. So it's
not...the growth boundary is not totally limited by the provision of
gravity server. So you can make a decision amongst yourselves - and
this ~vould be in conjunction with Planning and Zoning - to change
that growth boundary for reasons other than sewer provision if you
choose to.
Kanner: Certainly, but that was sort of a guiding principle.
Franklin: Yes it was.
Kanner: Before that was the status quo is to keep it gravity sewer as a...
(End of Side 1, Tape #03-07, beginning of Side 2)
Kauner: You would have to deviate from that plan.
Franklin: Right.
Lehman: In that proposal for the sewer the only portion that is not gravity fed is
the portion in the corner - that 40 acres - that might have to have a lift
station. The rest of that is all gravity.
Franklin: In this portion here potentially. Yes.
Lehman: The rest of that is all gravity fed. Okay.
Pfab: You had mentioned that there was a political decision involved with
the gravitational decision. Did that expand it or reduce it - the
political end of it?
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Franklin: When the Council made the decision to have the growth boundary
come over to the alignment of 965 that was an expansion of our
growth area to the west. That was a decision that was made a number
of years ago.
Vanderhoef: Don't we have precedence that sometimes developers build their own
lift station or contribute to building a lift station say for that 40 acres?
Fosse: Right. The existing lift station is such a case. The Walmart one, the
Dean Oakes one. So yes there is precedence there.
Vanderhoef: So if we get the other built to connect onto that 40 acres someone
could move forward with some additional dollars for the lift station.
Fosse: Yes. Next project is the Burlington Street Bridge just one block this
direction. It's the bridge over Ralston Creek, not over the Iowa River.
And that's a bridge that's deteriorated over the years. We had a hole
ail the way through the deck just about a month and a half ago.
Lehman: Really?
Fosse: Yeah. We were able to patch that. The concern with replacing that
bridge of course is the coal tar that's in the soils around there. We
spent a lot of time working with MidAmerican on that in looking at
what our options are and studying structurally what could be do with
the existing abutments and we think that we can rebuild the bridge
using the existing abutments so we don't need to excavate down into
those soils and put in a new foundation system. That will help a lot if
we could make that happen. And that looks very promising. We may
be able to reuse some of the beams on the bridge as well. The two
differences you'll see in the new bridge is we intend to put a center
turn lane in there, extend that center turn lane on Burlington east so
that it'll serve the Van Buren Street intersection. And then also we'll
expand the sidewalks out there and also have a straight shot through on
the sidewalks. That's one of those where the sidewalks come and go
in and then back out again and that's caused some problems for people
that have vision problems.
Vanderhoefi Would you look at extending that turn lane or is there space and width
all the way up to Governor Street?
Fosse: We've not examined that.
Vanderhoef: I'd appreciate looking at that.
Pfab: I would encourage that also.
O'Donnell: All the way to Governor Street.
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Vanderhoefi Uh-huh. And then westbound on the east side of the
Governor/Burlington also whether there would be space for right hand
turn onto Governor and two lanes still coming forward going west.
Fosse: Could you say that again?
Vanderhoefi At the Governor/Burlington Street intersection on the east side of the
intersection is there a way that there could be a turn lane going north
onto Governor and still have two lanes going forward on Burlington.
Fosse: Oh, okay. Let us look at that. That would be tight, but I know that
one would...if we proceed with a center turn lane taking it further
down the corridor that would likely be a separate project because
we're already in the motion on this one with the DOT and they are
paying the majority of the bill on the bridge project. And we
don't...the way the DOT is right now we don't want to let this
opportunity slip by because they'll quickly move those funds
elsewhere.
Lehman: Rick...
Vanderhoefi Well if the space is there maybe a request for re-stripping...
Fosse: Oh, I know we don't have the existing pavement width to put a fifth
lane in.
Lehman: Rick these turn lanes are probably issues that traffic would address as
to the need for them or whatever. I mean that's the sort of thing that
we would get a recommendation from traffic on?
Fosse: Yeah. I would work with Jeff on that.
Lehman: Okay.
Pfab: But I would also (can't hear) there has to be a place to do it.
Lehman: No, I'm well aware of that, but traffic determines whether or not
there's a need for it.
Pfab: Okay, yeah.
Fosse: Okay.
Kanner: Rick a couple things. This has been ongoing the investigation into the
coal tar in there and is there any end in sight in the investigation? And
there's talk about maybe further cleaning it up. What's the status of
that right now?
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Fosse: I think it's still a work in progress and to be honest my interest in it has
been very focused on what's necessary to get the bridge replaced and
other infrastructure issues in the area. So I don't know related to the
apartment buildings and that sort of thing where they're headed with
the study.
Atkins: I think we're about due for an update, Steve. I'll talk...I know Andy
Matthews is working on it. I'll get you...we'll get a summary memo
out to you on where it is on that issue.
Karmer: And you're.., so you're project has virtually no connection with what
the status is of that since you're not going to be tearing up the support
structure?
Fosse: Right. They're concern was two-fold. One is if you start digging into
the bank a lot you're stirring things up. Second more importantly if
you need to put in a new pile system, a new foundation system, that
(can't hear) big piles here penetrating through the coal tar and perhaps
giving it a path to go down into lower aquifers which it's not at now.
And that's really what we want to avoid is creating that opportunity.
Pfab: If you redo the bridge is there a way to make the intersection at Van
Buren south of Burlington better visually?
Fosse: Sight distance you mean?
Pfab: Yeah sight distance. I mean right now you get a few trees and a bit of
brush...
Fosse: Oh, well we can look at that independent of the bridge. Do you have
anything else Steven?
Kanner: Well actually I have more concern about adding lanes to any part of
that street makes it more of a highway type structure. I know it is a
route - a state route - and there's...so to a certain extent it does
function as a highway, but there's a lot of pedestrian traffic and I'm
concerned that adding another turning lane even there and especially
further up makes it more of that highway type, makes it harder for
pedestrians to navigate. Jeff, how bad is the accident rate there that we
need a turning lane on that bridge?
Davidson: You might recall that the application that we have for traffic safety
funds is predicated on the collision history there. The state requests
projects from all over the state and then they basically rank them by
cost-benefit based on solving collision problems. We didn't have a
super strong application. ! mean it wasn't for example if you compare
it like Highway 6 in Coralville where they were in the top 10
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collision...with respect to their collision history in the state. We're not
nearly at that level in this area, but we'll just see how we stack up
against the rest of the state. And they'll award the funds based on
rectifying that collision history.
Kanner: How much harder is it for pedestrians to cross if there's a turning lane?
How does that affect the whole...
Davidson: Well the street is wider, the street's wider so obviously you've got
more area to cross. One of the things that we're looking at for
Burlington Street, very preliminarily but I think that you're aware of it,
is that we also have an application for some traffic safety funds to
evaluate what we're calling high visibility crosswalks. We would like
to do a pilot project at two or three locations. And if those end up
being successful, Burlington Street is a real logical place because you
have so many north/south pedestrian movements across all of the
intersections from, you know, Van Buren or Johnson all the way down
to Madison or the River and so we might look at using some of those
treatments on a more permanent basis. But we're kind of preliminary
right now Steven with that.
Pfab: When you talk high visibility pedestrian crosswalk does that lights?
Davidson: It can. That's one of the strategies we'd be looking at is in-pavement
lights.
Pfab: In-pavement.
Davidson: It's one of the things we'd like to evaluate.
Champion: What is in the pavement lights?
Kanner: Oh, we're you talking traffic signals?
Pfab: Right.
Davidson: Oh, what I'm talking about is just a crosswalk treatment and you can
actually.., one of the strategies we'd like to look at that is kind of
catching on - well catching on is quite too strong of word it's being
evaluated in some other locations is putting lights in the pavement that
when a pedestrian is crossing lights come on and make it more visible.
Otherwise they're off:
Pfab: But I mean the visibility for people coming down going west on
Burlington Street, Dodge Street is kind of...the pedestrians that cross
there do somewhat at their own risk.
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Davidson: Yeah because you're down in a valley there the visibility is restricted a
little bit.
Karmer: So would the DOT allow us to increase I don't know if this will
effect the bridge so much, but the closest traffic light increase the time
to cross the street - this probably doesn't effect that.
Davidson: Yeah they pretty much leave us alone when it comes to manipulating
the traffic signals. If we did something real wild they might have
something to say about it, but, you know, increasing a few
seconds...we have gone Irvin with I think virtually all the pedestrian
crosswalks, certainly the ones between Gilbert and Clinton Street
we've gone to a longer pedestrian phase because of the elderly housing
on the south side of Burlington Street. We have increased that phase
to the maximum already at those locations.
Pfab: Those are...those are too different times whether the button is pushed
or not.
Davidson: That's correct. The button gives you a longer phase.
Pfab: So if you need it, push the button.
Davidson: Yeah. That's right.
Fosse: Next project is the Dodge Street reconstruction from Governor out to
Interstate 80 and that's a joint project with the DOT and they're by far
paying the lion share of this project. We also have some STP money
which is federal money that has been appropriated to Iowa City to use
on that project and then some local share in there as well.
Lehman: Is the local share only water and wastewater? I mean I don't see any
funding in there from GO. It appears to me that between the DOT,
STP, and the water and sewer that project is totally funded outside the
general fund and no GO bonding.
Fosse: There's the 20% match for the STP money and Steve do you know off
the top of your head does that come out of GO or is that road use tax?
Kevin? Road use tax.
Atkins: I recall we do not plan any GO debt for this project.
Lehman: I see that. That's good.
Atkins: Yep.
Vanderhoefi The $200,000 though in '05 is also STP?
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Lehman: That's what it says.
Fosse: Yeah.
Vanderhoef: '03 and '05 are STP and then 20% match from road use.
Atkins: If you'll recall there was a number of other studies. (Can't hear) doing
an environmental assessment, Jeff, or something such as that. And I'm
most positive we paid for that with road use tax. Yeah. That was
locally funded. That wouldn't show up on this because that's already
been bought and paid for.
Fosse: Okay. This project is three lanes from the intersection of Governor
and Dodge out to the Scott Boulevard intersection and there it'll make
the transition to four lanes on out to the interstate. It also involves that
little piece of...is that Kimble? Kimble Road - they extended in there
that doesn't have any curbs on it now. Interesting thing there's a
bridge buried there that...
Lehman: It doesn't surprise me.
Fosse: It used to be a bridge and they just pulled up the floor boards and
dumped dirt down so it's something for the archeologists to find
someday.
Lehman: Is that going to create a problem for redoing that road?
Fosse: It shouldn't - no. It's been buried a long time.
Lehman: I didn't think the rat holes would be a problem when we put in the
trunk line sewer either, but it turned out to be.
Fosse: Well we hope not anyway.
Lehman: Okay.
Fosse: The water main replacement is in this area of the project where
there's...it's kind ora cobble duplicate system. It's approaching 50
years old and we want to get one system and one system out from
underneath the new pavement. And then the sanitary sewer work
extends from where Scott Boulevard ties in out to ACT Circle and that
will pick up the area from the lift station it serves north of the
interstate. And then that will flow down through that sewer with better
capacity. Right now it goes through the ACT campus.
Pfab: Refresh my memory where is the lift station out there?
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Fosse: The lift station is in the parking lot of NCS kind of tucked right over
the side of the embankment there. It's tough to see.
O'Donnell: Rick, to do three lanes how much do you have to widen?
Fosse: Ron, do want to answer those questions? Ron Knoche is here. He's
been working with Howard R. Green on the design of that.
Knoche: The current paving width is about 25 feet in town and we're going out
to 34 feet in the three lane portion through there.
Kanner: And...you might not know this, but previous figures projected the
traffic between Dodge/Governor intersection and the new Scott
Boulevard intersection is projected to go down over the next 20 years,
is that correct?
Knoche: I'll let Jeff answer that question.
Davidson: Yes we do forecast a small decline there.
Kanner: Thanks.
Pfab: Percentage wise?
Davidson: You know I can't remember the exact number, Irvin, but it was...
Pfab: Less than five percent?
Davidson: Yeah it was in that order of magnitude. It wasn't a huge decline, but
you know given that it's increasing everywhere else just having it
decline at all was significant.
Pfab: What...what possibilities would cause it not to decline?
Davidson: Well, we'll have to see the amount of diversion on Scott Boulevard
and First Avenue. The counts we took a couple of weeks ago showed
we have about 7,500 vehicles right now being diverted onto the
combines Scott Boulevard and First Avenue. So that's 7,000 vehicles
a day that much of that or at least some of that would have been on
Dodge Street otherwise. So that's pretty much where your diversion
comes from.
Pfab: Is there a possibility of more development...commercial development
going in there that would cause that to... ?
Davidson: There will be...there's a commercial note identified in the
comprehensive plan in the vicinity of where Conklin and Dubuque
Road across from the HyVee in that area, there's probably going to
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be a little bit of additional commercial development. There's also
quite a bit of commercial zoning along Dodge Street. Some of the lots
have converted to small commercial businesses and there could be
some more of that along Dodge Street as well.
Pfab: But farther out?
Davidson: In the area there between the cemetery and Governor Street there is
some commercial zoning there - that's existing zoning. Some of those
residential dwellings could convert to commercial.
Pfab: I would imagine that would be that for people that wanted access to
the Interstate that location (can't hear).
O'Donnell: We've done the traffic counts (can't hear) Scott Boulevard...
Davidson: Yeah those were the ones I just referred to.
O'Donnell: You just referred to? But, what's the...
Davidson: Approximately...approximately...let's see it was approximately
30...approximately 3,320 on Scott Boulevard and about 4,500 on First
Avenue.
O'Donnell: Okay.
Davidson: Much more balanced than our model initially had thought it would it
be so maybe opening it at the same time had the effect we wanted.
Kanner: Oh you would have thought more would be going on First Avenue?
Davidson: Yeah we thought it would be much more on First Avenue and fewer
on Scott Boulevard - the model showed that.
Fosse: The key function of that center lane, the third lane of course is the
safety and accommodating turning movements in there and I think it'll
be a nice improvement for the corridor. Let's see next project is Scott
Park area a trunk sewer. That is shown right in this area here and that
opens up 195 acres from a sewage perspective. Just this fall it was
constructed from Court Street up to this point at a part of development.
We'll take it on up and relieve...will allow the Iowa City care facility
to tie in, get rid of their lagoons which have been a problem for many
years. And also it goes all the way to Scott Boulevard and the reason
for that is, is Kevin's neighborhood here the old Lumpah property
naturally drains this direction and the sanitary sewer systems have
always been set up to go there, but temporarily it's been coming down
through this neighborhood. And we want to get that connected
because occasionally we have surcharging down in this area and we
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want to get that headed where it's suppose to. As a part of that we'll
have a lateral going over and going along the back of the lots there on
Hummingbird Lane. And the agreement with the annexation is that we
would not force them to tie in for at least 20 years, but over time as
their septic systems need to be refurbished they'll probably make the
decision to tie in to that as those go bad. It really makes sense to get
that in because never do the septic systems all fail at once. You'll get
one failing at a time and one by itself is not what it takes to get that
extended.
Pfab: What kind of(can't hear) are coming out of there? (Can't hear).
Fosse: WelI the annexation agreements got us the easements that we need to
do the sewers. But even though that was a part of the annexation
agreement you'll still see on your Council agenda the steps that we
still need to follow for the state law for the acquisition of easements.
Beyond that we've not talked a lot about establishing a tap on fee for
that area out there.
Champion: They'll spend a fortune just getting to the sewer lines.
Fosse: Oh, for the people on Hummingbird?
Champion: Yeah.
Fosse: It will probably be less expensive than replacing a septic system.
Champion: Oh really?
Fosse: It runs something down and just ties into it.
Lehman: That's the back of their lot line isn't it?
Fosse: Right. It's going right along the back of their lots. Another important
reason to do that now is once those lots are developed east of them it'll
be tough to retrofit that later. So it's good to have it in and have it be
there. Next project is the Iowa River Power Dam. We talked about
that briefly earlier. Now that's the renovation of the dam to stabilize
the pool for our water intact and also recharge for our alluvial wells
and it involves the pedestrian component. Since we had to rebuild the
catwalk over the dam for rescue purposes it only made sense to build it
to a standard that we use for pedestrians and get them out and enjoy
the dam and get on across and tie into the peninsula over there. That
project - the public hearing will be at your next Council meeting. And
we've already got a fair amount of interest in that project from
contractors. Something that's really working in our favor right now is
there's not a lot of snow on the ground and the Iowa River watershed
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which hopefully will translate to low flows during the next year and
allow us to get this project completed. We're giving the contractor a
fairly large window to get this project done in recognizing that there
are going to be certain periods which they aren't going to work
because the water is quite high. And if we're tight on the timeframe
that we give them it's going to drive that price up because they've got
to eat that risk.
Kanner: How does it work when you reconstruct the dam?
Fosse: Well in this case inside the dam it was originally built with these
wooden cribs filled with rocks and then a shell built around it and the
wood is all rotted away. We've been inside the dam - we cut a hole in
it and crawled in and looked around. And the rocks have all just
dropped down inside. So it doesn't have the structure inside that it
used to have so we're going to bore holes into it kind of like a root
canal and we're going to fill it up with grout to give it some mass.
And then in addition to that we're going to rebuild the downstream
face and take away all but three of those columns that support the
catwalk now and that's going to allow more debris to pass - less trees
and stuff getting caught on that and then reduce our maintenance
requirements.
Pfab: You won't be able to do that by pre-assembled units (can't hear)?
Fosse: The bridges will be preassembled. Yep. There are going to be bow
trusses over the dam itself and then once we're off the dam and
spanning the emergency spillway on the east side we're going to use
the most economical pre-manufactured bridge we can get which is just
a plain old box truss. It will still look nice but...
Lehman: Basically you're going to mud j ack that dam.
Fosse: Yeah.
Lehman: Pump it full of concrete.
Fosse: Pump it full of...yeah.
Lehman: That's pretty cool.
Pfab: The cool part was the people that designed it in the first place.
Champion: I think the cool part was...
Lehman: If they had put concrete in the first place we wouldn't be spending 2
million dollars to redo it.
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O'Donnell: Erosion.
Lehman: But the wood rotted out.
Karmer: What do you do with the water? Do you have to divert the water?
You said to work on the downstream side.
Fosse: Uh-huh. And you can do that one section at a time.~ust like we did
when we cut the hole in the face of it. You just sandbag the top of the
one section and put the flow through one of the four others and then
you could work on that. And the contractor will probably be coming
up with ideas of their own as well.
Kanner: So on the downstream side you put sandbags to divert so you have a
space in front of the dam.
Fosse: Upstream side.
Kanner: Upstream side?
Fosse: Before those go so that the downstream side is dry.
Lehman: Kind of cool. You stack them on top so the water can't run across that
section and you can work on the (can't hear).
Pfab: I think Steve is worried what about backing up?
Lehman: You're not going to (can't hear).
Vanderhoef: That's why you want low-flow at that point in time.
Pfab: But I mean after it goes over the other part then it backs up into where
you are.
Fosse: Oh on the downstream side? They'll put some things in around there
too. Again we don't do a lot of this work, but there are contractors
that do and they deal with that stuff regularly.
Vanderhoef: Ask and they'll find a xvay.
Lehman: Okay.
Fosse: That's right.
Champion: Wasn't the Missouri River they diverted to put a bridge and they never
could get it back? Was that the Missouri River?
Lehman: It's called the (can't hear).
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Champion: No, what's on the Iowa border west.
Atkins: Missouri River.
Vanderhoef: Missouri.
Kanner: Missouri.
Atkins: You thinking of Carter Lake?
Champion: No, they diverted the river to put the bridge in and they could never
get the river back to where they built the bridge.
Fosse: You asked earlier about the funding component of Coralville. They're
funding package is about $200,000. Of that $130,000 of it is the
REAP grant and then of that REAP grant the DNR required that a
condition of the grant is that we put in a boat ramp upstream on the
Coralville side of the river. So there's a portion of that grant that's
being spent basically away from this project and then the remainder of
the grant goes toward the bridge and then they have about a $70,000
share on their own.
O'Donnell: Put in a boat ramp?
Fosse: Yeah.
O'DonnelI: Where?
P fab: In the park.
Lehman: Next to the convention center.
Champion: Next to the Iowa Child.
O'Donnell: How far upriver are you talking?
Fosse: I don't know off the top of my head just to be exactly where that's at.
Atkins: I thought it was near Edgewater Park.
Fosse: Yeah. It's right in that.,.
O'Donnell: Okay.
Fosse: Just where within the park I can't remember right now,
Kanner: So this is not included...I don't see the Coralville...
Lehman: It doesn't show it here.
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Atkins: No, Coralville has to do this.
Lehman: I know that, but the 2.8 million is accounted for with state funding, GO
and water debt when you add those up it comes up to 2.8 million. I
don't see anything here for Coralville.
Fosse: Kevin do you know the answer on that? Took out...
Atkins: That was already committed, done, finished. I'm assuming that's why
we pulled the number out.
Fosse: Okay.
Atkins: I mean if you want to...is it a part of the project? Directly yeah,
indirectly as well because DNR said you want our REAP money you
have to build a boat ramp up here. Oh, okay.
Kanner: Okay so Coralville's contribution is in addition to the 2.8.
Atkins: Yes. It is in addition to. Yes.
Lehman: (Can't hear) probably going to be a separate item on their...
O'Donnell: Did they not apply for a grant on that Steve?
Atkins: Yes they did.
Lehman: Yes.
O'Donnell: Was that not in danger for (can't hear)? Did they have to reapply?
Atkins: That grant has been in jeopardy now the last two years...
Fosse: Extended it twice.
Atkins: ...because of delays. Yeah they've given us an extension twice.
Fosse: Yep the delays on the project have been primarily on getting
easements on the west bank of the river and I think Coralville is
working through those issues now.
Atkins: If you remember there was difficulty with the Iowa River Power
Company in securing the easements. The ownership is now changed.
In fact I think you just met yesterday or the day before...
Fosse: Yesterday.
Atkins: ...on that very issue. That the new owner appears to be more
cooperative?
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Fosse: Uh-huh.
Atkins: Okay.
Vanderhoef: But this REAP grant we really need to spend up because we didn't get
any authorization for REAP money at all this year from the state of
Iowa.
Atkins: That's right.
Fosse: I think they're unlikely to extend it again.
Atkins: And rightfully so I mean the DNR is saying we're not going to
appropriate these monies unless you're going to use them. They like
this project.
Lehman: When would we bid ...we would bid this this spring?
Fosse: Uh-huh.
Lehman: So the actual funding would be...I mean we'd be paying the contractor
after the first of July, but it's conceivable that the project could start
prior to the first of July this year.
Atkins: Yes.
Lehman: Good. Go for it.
Fosse: If the river flows cooperate...
Kanner: When is it projected to be done?
Fosse: We're giving them a window of about a year to get the project done in.
Kanner: So summer of 2004?
Fosse: Uh-hnh.
O'Donnell: Are we still intending to do that concrete down from the dam a little
bit for dragging operations?
Fosse: There's going to be an observation platform at mid-span at the bridge
and another one on the far end of the bridge and on the railings there's
going to be basically they look like hooks on the front of boat that will
help for the rescue operations. Because what they do is they have a
rubber raft and they have a rope tied to either end and they pull that
back and forth in front of the dam and get the people out that way.
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They've found it unsuccessful pulling them up onto the catwalk
because the water coming down always knocks them off the rope.
Atkins: If you'll recall about a year ago we talked about this you made a
decision that that portion of the spillway was to be an economical -
that's what Rick is talking about.
Lehman: Well we talked about this at some length and ! think at one point we
figured we could save a halfa million dollars by not building part of
this bridge and turn around and spend at least a million more to put
back what the half million we saved and decided to leave it alone.
Fosse: Correct.
Atkins: Sort of.
Lehman: This is really the way the way it was presented and we decided a year
ago the way we would probably do it.
Fosse: We've examined many ways to accomplish the goals of this project
and I think we've zeroed in on the best on that meets all the different
needs.
Kanner: Steve?
Atkins: Yes, Sir.
Kanner: Was the concern of the previous owner of the restaurant that people
would park in the parking lot they didn't want that kind of traffic?
Atkins: That's been my understanding, Steve, I mean quite candidly he was
just really hard to work with.
Fosse: Kind of pessimistic about the ~vhole thing.
Atkins: The owner wanted nothing to do ~vith the project period and Coralville
tenaciously sort of stayed after it. I think it's because of ill health that
the ownership changed but they do have a new owner. And I think
part of it was a concern that you and I want to go biking we're going to
drive up, drop our car off, take our bikes and head across. The neat
thing is this takes you right into the peninsula and into that trail
system.
O'Donnell: I got asked a real interesting question the other day. That place is
becoming quite a collecting area for eagles.
Atkins: Yeah.
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O'Donnell: They were saying to me.
Lehman: Oh yeah.
O'Dormell: And there was a (can't hear) down there and he saw all the eagles take
off at once. I guess there were 15 or 20 of them. And he said he
wasn't sure but he thought that there was some sort of federal
regulation where you can't disturb a roosting eagle. Now that's the
first time I'd heard that. But there may be a point in time - if that is
the case - xvhere we would have to close that walkoff for a period ora
couple months.
Lehman: Well there was some talk a year ago about the contractor being
prohibited from starting work before a certain time in the morning. Is
that going to be in effect on this project?
Fosse: I don't believe so.
Lehman: Good. Eagles can get offmy turf. The roosters. Crack of dawn.
Kanner: Just to follow through is that going to be a problem in the future where
someone from that restaurant is going to say we're going to have
people that are going there, dropping off cars, and then there's going to
be complaints about...
Atkins: I think we're going to have to sign it Steven - and I'm assuming the
new owner is fully aware of what the implications are of you bring
your car and drop it and you're not in the restaurant...
Lehman: Probably get towed.
Atkins: You can get it towed out. I think we'll have to sign it on their behalf.
Pfab: In other words they can (can't hear).
Atkins: That's kind of up to the ownership. Yeah.
Champion: On the other hand if their parking lot is full you'll think the food is
good so they might increase their business.
Atkins: Of course on the other hand you can go to Water works Park and park
at the spot there and pick up the trail there and bring it back the other
direction. I mean there's ways to get on the trail system.
Lehman: Okay.
Fosse: Karin do you want to come up and cover Camp Cardinal Road since
that's next.
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Franklin: I think you're all familiar with the Camp Cardinal project which is the
collaborative project between the city of Coralville, Iowa City and
Southgate Development Company to extend this road from Highway 6
in Coralville or actually from the bridge at Clear Creek down through
property owned by Southgate Development to Melrose Avenue.
What's reflected in the budget is Iowa City's share which would be
from Melrose Avenue approximately half way through the project.
There will be a point in here, well where this pink ends, at which we
sever that property. It goes to Coralville. This remains in Iowa City
for development in Iowa City. What is contemplated and what is
included in your budget is that this will be a project for Iowa City. We
will then be reimbursed for approximately 2.4 million of the 4.2 - I
think I've subtracted that correctly - by the developer of the property.
And we would have an agreement with the developer regarding that
obligation on their part to pay for that portion - their share - which
goes through the actual development project. There is a cost that is
exclusively Iowa City's from Melrose Avenue to the south property
line of Southgate Development.
Pfab: I only have one very strong opinion on that and I don't believe that
Iowa City should be banker. If the developer is going to pay for it they
should put the money when Iowa City does.
Franklin: That certainly can be your position. I would point out that this is
analogous to other projects in which we have had developer share.
Another project which is on your list Lower West Branch Road which
is out here in which as development occurs - as annexation rezonings
have occurred - we have included in those the obligation to pay for a
share of upgrading Lower West Branch Road.
Vanderhoef: Isn't that the way we did Court Street extension also?
Franklin: No, it's not. Court Street extension, at least the first portion of it, the
stub that was there for many years from Scott to the east was paid for
exclusively by the developer of that property because the development
east of Scott Boulevard was out of phase with our phasing and our
comp plan. Then the Council was petitioned by the developer of
Windsor Ridge to extend Court Street further to the east and the
Council agreed to include that in your capital improvements project.
And that was exclusively a City cost.
Vanderhoef: But that in between space that the developer didn't own was in
different ownership. Those people are now paying. (Can't hear).
Franklin: Not for Court. No, no. No they will...the Lindemann Farm property
as that develops and Windsor Ridge north of Court Street those are the
two properties in which we have started this system for Iack of a better
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word of getting an obligation for the upgrade of Lower West Branch as
we go through the annexation and rezoning process. Yes we also got it
from Plum Grove acres.
Karmer: Is there sewer and water in this project?
Fosse: The...we would need to extend the water main...
Lehman: You need the mic.
Fosse: Oh, I'm sorry. We'd need to extend the water main along Deer Creek
Road out to edge of the subdivision they would take it within. And
the developer would extend the sanitary sewer.
Franklin: Sewer...
Kanner: So how does that include...
Franklin: Steven here sewer here comes along these drainage ways here so it's
not along that road.
Lehman: And that would be the developer's responsibility.
Franklin: Yes.
Kanner: But we have to add some. You're saying we have to add...
Fosse: I think the water is included in these costs.
Lehman: In that first section along Deer Creek. The water main would be
along...
Franklin: Along Deer Creek right here.
Kanner: And that's going to come out of the water revenue?
Atkins: Any water.., any water and sewer the overwhelming majority of which
is to be financed by the developer we have small piece which we have
an annual lump sum of money we set aside for these smaller
extensions. It's not...I don't...we have not done the engineering work
to give an accurate estimate, but it's certainly well within our capacity
to fund on an annual basis. I did not propose any additional debt from
water and sewer on that project.
Fosse: Also when development occurs in Iowa City we get a fee of $395 per
acre specifically to help cover those types of costs.
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Kanner: Could I get an estimate? Can we get an estimate on what it's going to
cost for that?
Atkins: Yep happy to do that.
Kanner: ...for water of sewer. (Can't hear) might get back from the developer.
Atkins: This project is at 4.2 we do not have the final - I think I mentioned it
to you on Monday - is that we don't have the final numbers on exactly
how - the mechanism - and specifically exactly what the developer is
going to have to pay. However as Karin pointed out we have a pretty
good guess on the thing. That agreement is sort of winding its way
now through Staff to be reviewed with you. What I did do was
propose that the 4.2 million project be funded by GO as well as road
use tax. With road use tax you have a lot of flexibility on. If we don't
have to sell the 3.2 - in that there's a cash contribution by the
developer - that number will go down. I don't imagine...I can't
imagine it going up. But we may have to put something in place.
O'Donnell: Has this developer...he's agreed over a short period of time that he's
going to pay almost 4 million dollars for this project - 2, give Iowa
City 1.8 and do the Coralville side and I think that's incredible. This is
a great project for a developer and (can't hear) to get involved in. It's
a positive growth growing the tax base. It's economic development.
And I think it's absolutely fantastic, well-thought out project.
Atkins: A lot of work yet to be done. It'll be back...
Lehman: I think what we're really being...what we're really doing here
is... obviously there's a lot of details that has to be worked out on this
yet, but what we're doing is basically adopting that in the CIP plan for
FY05 giving notice to the City of Coralville and to the developer and
to our own staffis if this is satisfactory with the Council. That's really
why we're talking about it. Is that not right?
Fosse: Yes.
Kanner: I think it behooves us to put a price on there so that it doesn't come
down dramatically. I think we need to probably go higher than 2.4.
Mike, actually studies show that this type of development.., you tend
to lose money for the City. It's not a great economic development
piece. It's great for the developer who I'm sure is going to do fairly
well in making money on this. And I assume that's why they're doing
it.
O'Donnell: Let's hope so. Steven there are some people that will never support
any road or any form of development and I'm not one of those.
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Kanner: That's good.
Vanderhoefi This is a mix of commercial and residential so I think there is
economic development and I suspect that it will pay for it.
Atkins: You adopted the plan.
Wilburn: We've already had this conversation.
Pfab: We adopted the plan with a blank sheet.
O'Donnell: What's that?
Vanderhoef: No.
O'Donnell: We adopted the concept.
Pfab: The principle, but the details are blank.
Lehman: Well and the details are coming back to us. I mean we'll have to deal
with those as they come up.
Vanderhoef: We'll look at them again next year.
Lehman: Well we'll probably look at them long before next year.
Atkins: I suspect you'll see an agreement in the next few months.
Lehman: Right.
Vandcrhoef: Good.
Kanner: And Steve how much flexibility do we have with the road use tax?
Are there limits about how much we can fund this project with road
use tax?
Atkins: You could fund it, in theory Steve, all with road use... I mean if we
have the road use tax money you can do that. Road use tax as a
definition in the state code and this is well within that. If you wanted
to reduce the debt and take road use tax money you can do that
certainly.
Kanner: And you said our road use tax was probably going up a bit.
Atkins: It went up a bit...Monday night I was telling you that we believe we
have some flexibility in the road use tax fund to reduce some of the
borrowing and substitute it with road use tax money. Could you do
that on this project? The answer is yes.
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Lehman: Okay, Sir.
Fosse: Okay. The next two projects - Scott Boulevard and South Sycamore
Trail are simply the financing component of projects that were finished
up just this last summer.
Lehman: Right.
Fosse: The Scott Boulevard project we ail know where that is. That opened
up about 525 acres in that quadrant of the City. The trail project in and
of itself did not open up area for development... I'm sorry calling it
trail that's the most recent component. There's the storm water
management which was the largest component financially of what
we've recently done. If you think back a few years before that we put
in a sanitary sewer done there for which we have a tap on fee. And
those projects combined have opened up about 411 acres down in that
area. Meadow Street Bridge is the next one. That's a bridge that is
started the downhill slide rather quickly condition wise. Earlier this
year we noticed the sidewalk on one side, the beam on which it's
supported had shifted so we only had about an eight of an inch of
support holding up that sidewalk. So we closed that until we could fix
that up and put it back together. The bridge is interesting in that it's
kind of a cobbled, homemade job that's accommodation of some old
county design. There's old water tower legs that are a part of the
structure of this thing with riveted steel which you just don't find very
often anymore. That's really old stuff. That's how we know it was
used when it went in there.
Lehman: Right. Built with water funds.
Fosse: There you go. I don't know if we ever had a water tower in town or
not.
Kanner: Can you show me again where that is?
Fosse: Sure. The Meadow Street Bridge is right here and that's the one that
also has the trail component. And somebody asked a good question
earlier about what all does that link into. The vision is to have a trail
from Creek Side Park all the way out to Scott Boulevard. And
portions of that are in place. Just this last summer when we built the
sewer project out in this neighborhood we built the trail from the end
of Beach Street out to...out to Scott Boulevard. The trail then goes out
into the street and follows down Friendship...excuse me it gets up to
Friendship and then it wilI eventually go through the park here. The
park extends all the way to the bridge. And then we're working on
getting the right-of-way to get through this little bottleneck here with
the trail and on back past the cemetery. We've already got one of the
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January 15, 2003 Budget Work Session Page 41
pedestrian bridges in back there. Eventually make it out to First
Avenue with that. And then we've got the E Street right-of-way that
parallels Ralston Creek or actually Ralston Creek falls within the E
Street right-of-way. And we've got some room on the north side of
the creek there to put the trail through.
Vanderhoefi So Meadow and E Street are the two components that are not
completed yet to get from Scott over to First Avenue?
Fosse: Well it's more than that. It's the trail needs to go in within Court Hill
Park and then west of Meadow Street, out to First Avenue and beyond
actually. But Terry you might have a better handle on this than I as far
as what all we already own.
Kanner: And where's the First Avenue HyVee?
Fosse: First Avenue HyVee is right here.
Vanderhoef: I'm curious in the long haul what the cost is to finish that whole
connection.
Trueblood: The funding I don't recall just off the top of my head, but it's on your
unfunding list where it gives that estimate. It seems like it somewhere
around a half a million maybe.
Pfab: What' s the project name?
Trueblood: Court Hill trail.
Pfab: Court Hill.
Trueblood: As I recall Dee in answer to your question I believe th~ area...
Karr: Number 5 7.
Trueblood: ...the area just to the west of this Meadow Street Bridge is the only
property along there that we don't either already own or have an
agreement to be able to utilize. I think that's the only parcel right
there. Having said that there are two are three places where the trail
has to go out onto the street or the sidewalk just because there isn't any
way to get through. You know houses already built and that sort of
thing. But I'm pretty sure this is the only small component right there
that we need to acquire. We have cemetery property. We have HyVee
property. The sewer project went west of First Avenue a few years
ago - we've got that right-of-way all the way through there all the way
over to Creek Side Park. So the acquisition is vastly in place already
just waiting to get a trail built on it.
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Vanderhoefi Are you doing any of those little pieces like in Court Hill Park for
instance with any of your annual trail money?
Tmeblood: We haven't done that to this component. The annual trail money has
been used primarily for just smaller items that, you know, curb cuts,
bicycle racks, maybe a very small component. I can't recall really any
real connections that have been done with that. We used it for some
bike lanes along the streets.
(End of Tape 03-07, Beginning of Tape 03-08)
Vanderhoefi Over this next four years try and do a little piece each year so that at
the end of four years that we'd have this connected.
Trueblood: That's something we can certainly look at. One thing that we have
been doing and this is maybe the best example is pigging backing the
best we can on sewer projects and that's what ~vas done with the initial
phase of it out next to Scott Boulevard - the one Rick referred to from
Scott Boulevard over Beach Street.
Pfab: (Can't hear). Where is the part that we still need to get acquisition?
Trueblood: The part right next to this Meadow Street Bridge just to the west side
of it.
Pfab: Can you show me on the map?
Tmeblood: Probably not.
Fosse: It's the little bottleneck right here.
Trueblood: We did do a study if you ~vill on this project - I think it's dated 1996 -
which Dee has over next to her right now if you'd like to page through
it. It's actually got photographs in there and page by page segments
from here to there on where the Court Hill Trail would go and what the
obstacles are and that kind of thing. Some of those obstacles have
been overcome because that was done in 1996.
Vanderhoefi Well in my mind we've done a very good job partly because of
opportunity on the west side. And we have some very good connected
trails on the west side of the river on Iowa City. And we don't have a
totally connected trail anyplace on the east side of Iowa City and I
think it's real important to move along with this and make that
recreation opportunity and also for transportation. We do have
bicyclists on the east side too.
Wilbum: Yes we do.
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Trueblood: Most of those are brand new Dee.
Vanderhoef: And it's not me.
Trueblood: East side has only been riding bicycles for the last year or two.
Lehman: It's expected to continue and perhaps even increase. Okay.
Fosse: One of the things that we're trying to determine right now on that
bridge is do we bring the pedestrian crossing at grade or underneath
the road and we're looking at our physical constraints there and the
positives and negatives of both. But it sure makes sense to figure that
into this design. Next project is stormwater permitting. That's phase
II of the EPA stormwater permits. And the major effort that's
underway right now is two-fold. One is putting together a map of our
stormwater system. We do not have a composite map of that and
we're putting that GIS equipment to good use out there and without
snow on the ground it's helping a lot. Our guys are out getting shots
on the storm sewer systems every day now. Another good thing is the
leaves are down right now so it makes it easy for the GIS to work
because you get clear shots at the satellites with that. In addition to
that we're working on our application to the state of Iowa whose
administration this program on behalf of the EPA. And we're working
with a group from the American Public Works Association. We have
about 15 cities in Iowa that are getting together and looking at how are
we going to do this and present something somewhat unified and
consistent to the DNR so that they're not getting uptine different
versions from different cities. Our concern is is they would cherry
pick the most restrictive things out of everybody's submittal and make
that the standard for everybody. So we're trying to preempt that and
just submit a consist permit application.
Pfab: Does the state have adequate funds to do (can't hear).
Fosse: They'll not be subsidizing any our costs associated with this. The state
is straggling to fund just the staff they need to administer the project
on their end of it.
Pfab: So there's no funds coming to Iowa City?
Fosse: No. This is an unfunded mandate.
Vanderhoef: Absolutely. Big time.
Fosse: Yeah. And the state also views it as an unfunded mandate because it's
a burden on them and they've not be able to dedicate many resources
to it. And have not been able to provide a lot of leadership to the cities
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on how to make application and that's one of the reasons for this focus
group that we've put together within the American Public Works
Association.
Pfab: But you're making grant applications where are they going to (can't
hear)?
Fosse: It's not a grant application. It's an application for a permit.
Pfab: Oh, permit application.
Fosse: Yes.
Pfab: Okay.
Vanderhoef: Just pay us, don't ask us for money.
Fosse: Let's see...
Lehman: Time out.
Fosse: Break time?
Lehman: Break time.
O'Donnell: How much more do you have?
Fosse: I've got one, two, three...
Pfab: Not over an hour?
Atkins: We've got more for you folks. Yeah I've got other Staff here for you
yet.
Lehman: That's fine.
Fosse: Okay. Take a break.
Lehman: Rick. We're up.
O'Donnell: Rick we'd like to be out of here by 10:30.
Fosse: 10:307 We can do it.
Lehman: We'd like to get out of here at five after 10.
Fosse: I can't do that.
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Atkins: Now wait a minute. Wait a minute. You promised me a little more
time than that.
Champion: We lied.
Lehman: We're politicians. You can't trust politicians.
Fosse: Next project is our next cell out at the landfill. And we'll be sliding
that out to FY06 rather than FY05. We've got one under construction
right now and it is our second one where we're using the shredding
tires for the drainage layers at the base of it. It's an excellent use for
recycled product. It's a neat thing that we do. Taft Road, ground
storage reservoir- GSR. That's just land acquisition only. That's
clear out on the west side. We just did one last year out in this
neighborhood if you recall. We bought some land.
O'Donnell: Where?
Fosse: Excuse me east side. Over there.
Wilburn: Far east.
Fosse: I'm pointed north now, but that's actually east on our map,
Atkins: He's our engineer.
Fosse: I think we'll get the right land.
Vanderhoef: Where are we? On which one?
Fosse: And I will note that that's a 2 million gallon facility not 1 million. It
says 1 million in there, scratch that and put 2.
Vanderhoef: And that's the one you're moving out?
Fosse: That's...no that's landfill that's moving out to FY06. Karin do you
want to cover the riparian restoration core 206? I waiting till she stuck
a bagel in here mouth to ask her that.
Atkins: Before you do that...Karin finish your bagel. Rick, why don't you just
do the culvert then Karin has a couple others. She can just come up
and do them.
Fosse: Oh, okay. Culvert? Where would that...?
Atkins: Last one.
Lehman: Last one.
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Fosse: Oh, okay. The railings. Yes. There's a number of response most of
them on the east side of town where we've got old railings and they're
starting to look ratty and a lot of them have lead based paint and
primer on them. So rather than spending the money to strip the lead
based paint off them and repaint them we're going to replace them
because they've also fallen behind from a safety perspective as far as
openings and all. So we're in the process of replacing those. We got a
few of them done this last fall and we'll finish up this year.
Vanderhoefi Would this be a place where we could call this public art...
Champion: Public art?
Vanderhoef: We do this all the time in projects and don't choke on your bagel, but I
would...
Lehman: They call it trail improvement.
Champion: Yeah.
O'Donnell: I called it trail. I like the trail.
Champion: We'll call it east side trail improvement.
Fosse: What we are doing I call it more public aesthetics where we're trying
to make them look good, fit into the neighborhood nicely, but we're
not taking the next step in the art realm. Because when you go to the
art realm you make some people happy and you...you know not
everybody agrees that art is great. It's a subjective thing. He's tap
dancing.
Kanner: What's the definition of culvert? What is the culvert part?
Fosse: Oh, culvert usually has the space of 20 feet or less and has a floor in it.
So think of a big square sewer pipe. It's a box that it goes through
rather than a bridge that spans something.
Atkins: You want to draw it?
Lehman: Under a roadway.
Fosse: Yeah.
Pfab: And they're also round.
Fosse: Well some culverts are round, but the bridges have abutments.
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Atkins: There's a better pen up there, Rick. Rick no one can see that. There's
a...
Fosse: Oh, right here.
Atkins: There you go.
Fosse: The bridges have abutments and they span on across whereas the
culverts are either round or square and they're structural all the way
around and rarely does this distance exceed 20 feet. And like at First
Avenue there by the HyVee we've got a three-cell culvert so the total
width is wider than 20 feet. We like to avoid these because they hang
up a lot of debris on these center pieces and also the outer cells tend to
fill with sediment.
Kanner: And what's the aesthetic enhancement of these culverts?
Fosse: Oh, it's just the railing. Right now it's kind o£a pipe rail that you'll
find in most places and we're putting something on that is more
reminiscent of a bridge rail bringing in some...just a nicer look to it.
And reducing the spaces so that it's harder for kids...we had a kid on a
Big Wheel last summer go underneath one of these things over the
edge and down into the creek and on the rocks.
Vanderhoef: More like what you put out on Court Street extended.
Fosse: Yeah. That's a good example of those rails.
Vanderhoef: Those are very nice looking.
Kanner: And about how many are there - a rough estimate?
Fosse: I want to say there's about 15. We've got a few of them done.
Kanner: And as long as we're talking about aesthetics - it might be opening a
big subject - but right across the street by the parking ramp there's a
wire fence at the corner there. It looks very temporary. It's been there
all the years that I've been here. Right by the creek.
Fosse: Right over here.
Lehman: Right over there.
Kanner: Across the street.
Lehman: That's ugly.
Atkins: It's really ugly.
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Fosse: Kevin said it's really ugly.
Kanner: Well that seems to be the consensus. Is there a plan to do something
besides that? What was the original purpose of that? Is that so people
don't xvander into the creek?
Atkins: I'm assuming... I'm not sure what I'm assuming that if it's that ugly
it's going to get fixed right away.
Lelunan: Yeah it's really...
Fosse: We'll take care of it.
Champion: And do we even need it?
Fosse: Well I think where that came from is the way that culvert is designed
the downstream end of the culvert doesn't have dirt over it like a lot of
them do, so it almost looks like a fifth leg to the intersection. And if
you don't look far enough out there people turning and wanting to take
off that direction and the fence helps distinguish that this is not indeed
a road.
Atkins: But we could do some other things to distinguish it other than an ugly
fence.
Champion: We could plant ivy on it.
Atkins: We'll do something. Consider it taken care off
Lehman: Alright.
Champion: You take that out of the art fund.
Lehman: This culvert thing is really a routine maintenance sort of thing.
Fosse: It is a maintenance activity. Yeah.
Lehman: Alright.
O'Donnell: Take that out of the art fund.
Lehman: Thank you, Sir.
Fosse: You're welcome.
Kanner: Well I did have a question for you Rick. I'm sorry.
Fosse: Sure.
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Kanner: The landfill cell. Are we talking at all about bringing in commercial
and large residential or multiunit residential that aren't included in our
waste...solid waste plan into the program at all with our advisory
committee.., our staff advisory?
Fosse: Are you talking about the collection of solid waste or the landfilling of
it?
Kanner: Well I think it's connected. So we would have more control over our
flow. Right now there's been concern over the last number of years
about flow control and we don't have control with the private haulers
to a certain extent.
Fosse: Uh-huh.
Kanner: So one option is mandating or charging commercial and larger
multiunit residential that aren't included in the plan. And I think that
affects the life of the landfill cell.
Fosse: It makes it more predictable.
Kanner: Yeah and we have better control and we can implement better
recycling plans, etc. The whole picture I think would include
discussion of whether or not we're going to do that and I was
wondering where that was. We set up a...
Atkins: We've talking about it off and on and I can say to you that we really
almost deliberately chosen not to pursue that. A couple things if you
do really want to think about that I'd put it on for a work session
agenda because if you wish for us to be...to truly regulate the
commercial component of waste collection that's going to require a
major effort in the sense of rewriting our ordinances, regulating the
equipment, doing lots of things. That's one. Secondly, if you're
thinking about municipal pick up that's even a bigger issue.
I've...we've talked about it. It's sort of has been kicked around and
quite frankly now might not be a bad time to begin to put it on the
table. But you're also talking about putting waste haulers...regulating
that whole industry. If that's what you want to do. And it's not
uncommon. Right now.
Kanner: There's a lot of ways to go about it.
Atkins: Absolutely.
Kanner: It could be bid out...
Atkins: Franchises, bidding...yes.
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Kanner: It doesn't have to mean extra trucks for us.
Atkins: Nope and the cities that I've worked in it's sort of all over the lot. We
had...in one community we had districts and they actually bid for the
business. There are the franchise...such as the franchise process. We
regulated routes. One of the things about residential...or about
commercial refuge collection is you'll see five different companies go
down the same alley on the same day picking up five different. And
each business in effect contracts. It's a big issue. If you want to put it
on for discussion I'd be fine with that. But that's...just so you know
you're taking on a lot if you go after that issue.
Pfab: I think let's do it in the sense that I am sure (can't hear).
Atkins: Oh, sure.
Pfab: And I mean it's...there's an awful lot of fluxuation (can't hear). And
it's one of the few things that as a city government we don't control.
And in the sense control we kind of haphazard.
Atkins: First thing you want to do is do you wish to regulate that component of
the refuse collection industry. You've got to answer a very basic,
philosophical, political question. If you say yes, there's plenty of
options we can come up with from my own personal experience. I
could lay those out for you.
Pfab: I would say definitely let's do it on a work session.
O'Donnell: I'm not interesting in putting it on a work session.
Kanner: I think to examine the environmental benefits or costs of either way
plus the financial we're talking 2.3 million for a cell for 8 years. We
can see what happens if we can get the facts and figures of what
happens if we extend it a year or two years. How much does that save
us down the road? What kind of environmental benefit versus the
other issues that you're bringing up.
Atkins: Lots of them.
Kanner: I think you put it all in the mix and add up the pluses and the minuses
and see where we stand would be beneficial for the City.
Atkins: If three of you tell me that we'll put it on for discussion.
Vanderhoef: I'd be willing to talk about it.
Atkins: Let me pull together some information and we'll put it on for a work
session. Give me a couple meetings.
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Champion: One of the things that might eliminate is most of the haulers in town
are really owned by out-of-state either corporations who set policy and
there's no local people.
Lehman: That's correct. I think we need to remember to that...
Atkins: And they also have very deep pocketbooks...
Champion: Right.
Atkins: ...when it comes to debating these issues.
Pfab: Fighting for their turf.
Lehman: But the cost of the land cell...building land cells or whatever.., landfill
is a revenue fund. It pays for itself. It's not a general fund expense.
Atkins: And our landfill is financially sound.
Lehman: Right.
Atkins: We've got, I think, a very...I mean as modern a landfill as you can get
and also has a reasonably long life. Having gone through a landfill
siting process you don't want to do that.
Lehman: In Cedar Rapids.
Atkins: Yeah. And it's been going on for how many years?
Lehman: I don't know and they're no closer than they were 10 years ago.
Atkins: And they're no closer.
Champion: A landfill what?
Atkins: Siting - picking a new spot.
Champion: Right, yeah. Exactly.
Vanderhoef: Certainly reserving that...
Fosse: One of the things...
Atkins: Well I'll put it on. Okay.
Vanderhoef: Okay. I'll save the discussion for later.
Atkins: Okay. Catch you later.
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Fosse: I was going to say that one of the things that we're doing to extend the
life our landfill is we're examining the way we do daily cover. At the
end of everyday right now we spread dirt out there as almost ail
landfills do to keep garbage from blowing away. And we're looking at
a spray on cover and that will conserve a lot of volume of the landfill
that's wasted right now just on dirt. So hopefully that's going to pan
out for us.
Vanderhoef: That would be great.
lPfab: Just take a minute and explain how you use the shredded tires and
what is the cost for us.
Fosse: Sure. The...a landfill is like a bathtub. The bottom of it is impervious
to water. And...excuse me...we have a drain in the bottom of that a
series of tiles and what the shredded tires do is they allow the leachate
no matter where it comes down within that cell to travel horizontally
and get into that collection line and it's pumped into town and treated
at our wastewater treatment plant. So it's the drainage layer. And in
the past we've used sand and it seems a waste of natural resources
when there are other alternatives. The shredded tires are about the
same cost as sand. The first time we did it the actual cost of the
shredded tires was higher than sand, but we were able to get a state
grant to bring that cost down. It.just shows that it was feasible to use
that material.
Pfab: And ongoing now are shredded tires about the same cost on the (can't
hear) market as (can't hear).
Fosse: Roughly.
Pfab: Okay.
Lehman: Thank you, Rick.
Pfab: Good place to be.
Karmer: Thanks.
Fosse: You're welcome.
Pfab: Thank you, Rick.
Planning & Community Development
Franklin: I just have a couple of items. One is Lower West Branch Road which
I alluded to earlier and that is the upgrade of Lower West Branch from
Scott out to Taft Avenue. That's at the very end of the capital projects
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in '07. One ofthe...the stipulations that we have included now with
our annexations and rezonings out there as development proceeds is
that the developer would be obligated to pay a prorate share for the
upgrade of Lower West Branch Road provided that Lower West
Branch Road is in the capital improvements program. We have three
developments now that are part of this program: Plum Grove Acres -
that is in this area right here, the Linderman Farm - that Southgate
development, and Windsor Ridge.
Pfab: Could you restate what you just said? If it's in...
Franklin: Yes. When you exact something through the development process
particularly when you exact funds for a particular improvement it is
prudent to have included in that some kind of timeframe in which the
capital improvement is actually going to be done. So one of the parts
of the agreements that we have with the developers of these properties
and will have with any future development there is that they will agree
to pay those funds provided that the project is in our five year capital
improvement program.
Pfab: Now are those funds paid up from?
Franklin: They are paid as the development happens, as the final plating occurs.
Pfab: So we don't end up just paying for this?
Franklin: No. We're putting money into an account for that road.
Pfab: Okay so we had...so money comes in up front. Okay.
Franklin: Yeah.
Kanner: What's the estimate for the developer's share of that 3.8?
Franklin: Well I can't give you a number. I can tell you how we calculate it and
you can extrapolate that. The way we calculate it is based on Lower
West Branch Road acting as a collector street in that the community as
well as development on either side of it is going to use it. So we start
out from the principle that 50% of the cost should go to the community
at large and then 50% is paid for by the development that occurs. You
then divide that by the north side and the south side and you calculate
it based on how much the development is actually going to access
Lower West Branch Road. For instance in the Linderman Farm we
had a line about halfway down and calculated their share based on the
number of acres. So it's probably about I want to say maybe...I'm
guessing roughly, but about 25% of the cost when you take all of those
calculations into account. Because for instance on this project half of
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this will use Court Street - the traffic will from this point south likely
use Court Street. And so we don't require then the fee to be attributed
to development on the south end of this project, just on the north end.
Theoretically I suppose we should be getting half of the cost from the
development. Practically speaking because of when we've instituted
this I'm not sure that's going to happen and that there will be enough
development to pay for it at the time when we actually want to
improve the road. And I say that because we've got a lot of interest on
the south side of Lower West Branch Road, not as much interest on the
north side of Lower West Branch Road. It's still in farming. So...I
can't give you an exact number.
Kanner: Well you said a rough estimate is about 25%.
Franklin: Yeah.
Kanner: We can figure.
Franklin: 25 - 50%.
Karmer: Okay.
Franklin: I think it's a way for us to have the development community share in
the cost of some of these improvements that are off-site, are not part of
their project, but are used by their project.
Pfab: And definitely benefit.
Franklin: Definitely benefit them yes. Okay the riparian restoration that's for
Water works Park and the peninsula and a portion of the Iowa River
Bank by Park Road. This is a project that Coralville and the U.S.
Army Corp of Engineers began talking about. They then invited us to
be part of it. At this point Iowa City, Coralville, the University and the
Corp of Engineers are all part of the project. The total project cost is
5.9 million dollars, but that included things that are happening on the
University campus as well as in Coralville along Clear Creek. Our
portion of it relates to Water works Park and this area - it's right along
the river as the project indicates it's riparian restoration. What that
means basically is cleaning out areas where there's low-growing
vegetation, restoring it to what would be appropriate habitat for along
the river. There's some seeding of prairie areas which will help us
with the Water works Park project as well as some wetland restoration
that's happening in Water works Park. On the Peninsula Park it's a
similar kind of project that is the riparian restoration for habitat, some
seeding, there would be annual bums in the prairie area. And then
on...near Park Road it's a bank stabilization project right at the point
where Park Road comes across. It's just north of the University or the
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fraternity property. We own a little piece there. Our cost estimated
right now is about $70,000 out of that whole. A lot of our share is
covered by the fact that we have already acquired all of this property.
So that counts into our local share which is why ours is so low. We
should have more refined estimates on this in the spring. The Corp is
working on this. They work very deliberately. And so this is the best
information that we have right now.
O'Donnell: Karin did you say annual bum?
Champion: Yeah, why do they do that?
Franklin: For prairies...for prairie plantings to survive, to flourish the natural
process as I understand it would be through fire that historically that
would have happened through a thunderstorm.
Champion: Every year?
Franklin: Not necessarily. No. No. Not every year.
Atkins: Terry...
Franklin: But that these kinds of plants are enhanced by the burn.
O'Donnell: When we bum this prairie grass are we going to have...like can people
burn leaves at the same time?
Franklin: No.
Lehman: Take your leaves out to the prairie.
Franklin: In the ordinance and on open burning there are provisions for
controlled bums which is what this would be.
O'Donnell: If I bum leaves in my little bucket I have a controlled bum.
Franklin: I'm not so sure you if you're doing it in the bucket. Is it a wood
bucket or a plastic bucket?
O'Donnell: I'm just saying that we have a burn ban in Iowa City and it doesn't
matter and people can't burn leaves but we can bum a prairie and I just
think there's a...
Pfab: Well, but I think the point of the thing is over hundreds of thousands
of years this is how the prairie developed to be such a valuable asset.
And that was one of the natural processes.
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O'Donnell: And there's an argument to say Irvin that Iowa City's been burning
leaves for a long, long time.
Lehman: But there were forest fires that burned leaves too, but that's another
discussion. What else do you have?
Franklin: If there's Cotmcil resistance to the annual bum 1 think that probably
mowing can be done too. I'm not sure you get the same effect.
O'Dormell: I don't resist it.
Lehman: What's next Karin?
Franklin: That's all I have.
Lehman: That's all you have. Thank you.
Atkins: I think Jeff up next with Gilbert Street.
Kanner: But I did actually have a question about the bum, Karin. Are you
hoping to get volunteers to help with that. I know that there's other
bums that take place and volunteers help set that up under that watch
of professionals.
Franklin: Because with this whole project there's ongoing O & M costs and
maybe Terry should address this rather than I.
Atkins: Didn't we do one of these...Karin, excuse me, didn't we do one of
these on the west side of town a couple of years ago?
Wilbum: there was a bum at Grant Wood too.
Lehman: Right.
Atkins: I think we've done a couple. Yeah.
Trueblood: Thank you very much. What's an O & M anyway? Oh. We've done
a few small prairie burns and when we do them we always...we hire
Russ Bennett who's an expert in this area. He's very familiar with the
fire department. They're very familiar with his work. He does use
volunteers, but he usually tells them, "you go over there and stand and
if the fire reaches you, you put it out." You know. But essentially
volunteers can be used, but they...you have to be very careful. And it
does have to be under professional supervision. And the controlled
burn is the kind, in theory anyway, your flames don't get real high.
Pfab: I suppose it'd be easier if you had a natural (can't hear).
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Tmeblood: Probably would be. For those of you who didn't hear he said it'd be
easier if we had a naturalist on the staff.
Karmer: That's what I was going to bring up. We pay about what is it $15,000
for consultant usually each year to do these kinds of things and other
surveying?
Tmeblood: What...you know I don't recall the exact budgetary figure, but I think
it's somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000 that we have been
paying.
Kanner: It is something we ought to consider especially if we're going to be
doing more of these bums. And there have been suggestions that
Hickory Hill needs...is a good candidate for a burn.., a prairie bum.
Trueblood: Yeah, I know that's been suggested. You would find people that
might not agree with that.
Lehman: Okay. Thank you.
Davidson: In the total CIP plan including the unfunded projects there are about 5,
6, 7 intersections that are identified...well they're in there because we
feel like they are really critical intersections in town that are the ones
that are giving us the most concern right now. They are in areas where
traffic is growing and we know they're inefficient right now. That
they need...they don't have enough lanes, they don't have turn lanes,
whatever the case may be, you will find those in the unfunded projects.
Probably the most critical intersection is the intersection of Gilbert
Street and Highway 6 which has been moved to funded year '07 so it
is out there a ways, but it is also a project that is going to take us some
time to get into. This is an outgrowth of the larger corridor...Gilbert
Street corridor project that you might recall which got to be so big and
unwieldy that it just...the Council at that time decided they didn't
want to deal with it. And what we've done is pair out an intersection
project. But calling it an intersection is a little bit of a misnomer
because although it is focused on the intersection of Highway 6 and
Gilbert Street it would extend north and south two or three blocks in
each direction. To the north to approximately 2nd Street and to the
south to almost to Steven's Drive. And this would be a project that the
principle aspect of it would be to add dual left turn lanes to both
Gilbert Street approaches. It's a very constrained area, but we do have
a plan that we have developed.., a concept plan where we could put in
what we feel is a very effective reconstruction that would allow that
intersection to work much, much better than it does now and
accommodate the future growth that we know is going to be happening
in south Iowa City. That's part of why this intersection is so scary.
It's to the point right now where in the p.m. peak period it does not
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work well at all. It works very poorly and we are poised for
significant growth in that south area as you all know the area around
the...where they're developing the plan for the prairie...the sand
prairie there. We know there's going to be a lot more traffic. This
intersection has over 60,000 vehicles a day total entering volume. It's
one of what I call the big three intersections in town - Burlington,
Grand and Mormon Trek. Highway 6 in Coralville being the other
(can't hear). By far and away the highest traffic volumes in town are
those three intersections. So we have looked at this comprehensively
enough to know that we actually don't need additional left turn
capacity on the highway, but we are going to need additional through
lane capacity at some point on the highway. Now whether or not, you
know that will ever actually come to pass we don't know. But we
would design this project to accommodate the possibility of that
happening in the future. We would have a lot of issues to deal with
with the property owners in this area. We would be talking about
things like medians. We would be talking about things like the curb
cut openings and driveway openings. Reorganizing that, trying to
make sure we minimize the impact on the adjacent developments. We
have done enough planning...you know we have some strategies to do
that where people who might feel like they would be made worse by
the project could actually be made to feel like they could be improved
by the project. But it's going to require some teamwork in getting
everybody on the same page down there. But this project is in your
CIP for '07. Any questions about it? Steven?
Kanner: A couple things. One perhaps after budget I would ask Council that
we have a work session on this. It seems like a pretty major event and
I remember - I wasn't on Council - the discussions about Gilbert Street
widening which Council decided not to go through with that and this
seems to be a bit of that. And it seems pretty hefty price and big
impact. So I was wondering if Council had some interest in some time
this year having a more in-depth presentation on this issue.
Vanderhoef: How much more...you say you've done some preliminary planning,
what would it take in planning dollars to be ready to do a project come
'077
Davidson: Well to design this project if you assume...if you assume the design is
15% or so the total estimated cost. I mean you could see that we
would be talking about a half a million dollars probably to design the
project. So remember this is an '07 project. So we would probably
get going in earnest in '05 or '06 - '06 at the latest - in order to do this.
But it's nothing that's...what you're voting on right now...or what you
will be voting on when you adopt the budget is to have this project
included in '07.
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Vanderhoefi I guess i would be curious then Steve what it would do to our total
picture if we put the $500,000 into say '05.
Atkins: We can have an answer for you then.
Vanderhoef: Okay.
Pfab: What...why would we want to go out to '05 if they're not going to...
Davidson: She's talking about the design.
Vanderhoef: The design.
Pfab: Is that...
Davidson: This will be a very complicated project with respect to property
acquisition and design we have a lot of issues to work through.
Pfab: So you feel that that would be necessary.
Davidson: I think if you wanted to see it implemented in '07 we want to get going
in '05.
Pfab: That's fine. I have no problem with that.
Kanner: Or... 1 mean I think that's what we could have the debate on is whether
we don't want to start 'til '07 and try to get more in-depth information
on what the traffic count is, and what the needs are and what other
possibilities there are to alleviate some of that congestion.
Vanderhoefi Well...
Kanner: But another question I had was is there any sewer or water work
contained in that?
Davidson: No, the sewer is pretty much in place down here for sewering the
whole area for development and water I don't know specifically Chuck
about the water do you? It's not a specific component of the project at
this time Steven.
Vanderhoefi Well I agree that for those of you that were not involved with the
original Gilbert Street ideas that were presented a few years ago. But a
work session is important on this, but I think...
Kanner: I think either way...
Vanderhoef: Right, but I truly believe that we need to start the planning earlier if we
possibly can do it.
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Atkins: If you'll recall Hills Bank on a couple of occasions has contacted you
and they feel very strongly about this.
Davidson: And Karin and I have had some discussions with Southgate
Development Company who owns property in the area as well.
Vanderhoefi And my concern is that we have land opening up for development
down there and these folks need to know what their setbacks,
everything else and until we design this corner we don't know what
we're going to be doing even further south on Sand Road. So I think
we need to talk about it.
Champion: We do need to talk about it because I'm certainly interested in
development that's going to go on just south of Highway 6. So I'm
very concerned about the development that already exits north of
Highway 6 and I'm not willing to destroy those citizens for any major
intersection work.
Davidson: Well I would certainly say in response to Connie's comment that there
should not be the expectation that we will be able to implement this
project without any disruption to the adjacent businesses because it is
just simply too tight of a corridor. So if you wish to not disrupt the
existing businesses down there you would not want to implement this
project.
Kanner: You mean disruption in terms of width of lanes?
Davidson: Right. We will need some property from those businesses. Now
where it would come from and those sorts of things we don't have
those answers yet.
Lehman: Let's put it on a work session Steve.
Atkins: First Jeff get me a number on...for the design expenses in general and
then we'll prepare a memo and when I send that to you that will be the
timing for putting on a work session.
O'Donnell: This is scheduled 2007, Ernie. We certainly don't need to put it on a
work session this year.
Lehman: Well, no, no. But I do think that if we're going to proceed with this
and this is something...that the people who are developing south of
Highway 6, the folks along Gilbert Street need to know what our
intentions are. And I think that if we have a work session and we say
no, no, no we're not going to do this. It disrupts too many people. It
costs too much money. That tells them one message. If we talk about
it and say we know it's inconvenient. We know that there's going to
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be some problems, but it's something we have to do because of the big
picture they need to know what our plans are. And I think just saying
we're going to put it on a work session and leaving it in '07 probably
is not fair to those folks. I think we need to have that discussion and
say knowing what...and I don't think we'll going to know the full
impact from a work session, but I don't think there's any question
there are going to...
Davidson: No, we would, I think, have a good discussion, answer a lot of the
questions sort of just generally what the project would entail.
Vanderhoefi but the plan needs to be put in place and if that's going to cost a half
million dollars then we've got to plan for that also. And that's the
only way we'll be able to tell people what we're going to do.
Lehman: But the work session needs to take place before the plan because I
think Jeff can tell us pretty surely what sort of things we're talking
about and if we agree we can live with it...
Davidson: Well and to the degree that Council after...during this discussion to
the degree that Council can tel1 us we feel very strongly about this, less
strongly about this, we would like you do go in this direction rather
than this direction that's helpful to us for them getting going on it.
Lehman: Alright.
Pfab: Are we seeing any change in the amount of traffic that goes through
there since we opened up Scott and First Avenue?
Davidson: No, that's pretty far off system to see that.
P fab: There's a lot of stuff coming from the east there.
Davidson: Well the other facility Irvin that plays into Highway 6 is the south
arterial across south Iowa City and that's something that we'll be
building incrementally over the next 20 years before it's all hooked up
into a single system. But until that's done you really don't have a
good system for diverting traffic anywhere else. The bridge...the
Highway 6 bridge over the river is the last bridge until Hills and so
that's the last opportunity to cross the river in Iowa City and traffic
volume reflects that. It's 32,000 34,000 vehicles a day.
Lehman: Okay.
Atkins: Steve you're up.
Karmer: Thanks Jeff.
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Pfab: Thanks.
Nasby: The yellow areas on the map represent the targeted area rehab program
and the Council approved fiver areas for this program in November of
2000. And we got $100,000 in FY02 and $50,000 in FY03 and
currently we do have projects for all those dollars and as you may
remember the TARP program was to help us meet some requirements.
We had housing condition survey that done in 2000 identified a
number of areas in the community that had some housing that was in
fair or poor condition and that's why the Council adopted these area
then. In the TARP program we want to maintain the tax base and
hopefully increase it in some cases, preserve neighborhoods and also
encourage historic preservation activities. The projects that we have
currently on the table are on 6th Avenue, Douglas Street, Van Buren
Street and Brown Street. So we do have a pretty wide range of those.
It's important to note that the money in the TARP program are loans to
the home owners. And so we're making a 5% loan to them and
they're repaying the dollars. So all the dollars that we put out in this
will be repaid to the City plus the 5% interest.
Lehman: What term on those loans?
Nasby: We going out on the...right now our average loan is about $30,000 so
we are going out the full 20 years.
Lehman: 20 years?
Nasby: Yeah. 20 years, 5% is what our average loan is right now.
Pfab: The City is making money at it.
Lehman: Well it depends on what you sell the bonds for.
Nasby: Right now we're selling the bonds for less than 5%, but there are bond
issue costs and those things...
Lehman: What are we spending presently?
Nasby: '02 was $100,000 and fiscal year '03 was $50,000.
Lehman: Why are we recommending $200,000 then which is twice as much as
we've ever spent in a year?
Nasby: We do...we do have a waiting list for these things and like I said the
average project cost is about $30,000 so we're not going to do very
many projects if we only have $50,000 a year. I think initially we
were looking at...it was a pilot so that first year we got that $100,000.
The send year we had $ i 00,000 but because of budget reasons that got
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cut back. But we do have all those folks in place and are moving
forward. If we want to continue this program and kind of fully utilize
our rehab staff's capacity we could use the $200,000. Also with
federal dollars in programs are going down this is a very nice
compliment to those programs.
Vanderhoef: Are you finding that $30,000 is roughly what people need to do a
comprehensive upgrade on the house?
Nasby: Yeah a lot of the work that we're doing is remodeling kitchens,
bathrooms. We have somebody that's adding a garage. And that's
part of the program that's a little different than our regular rehab
program, but here we're trying to expand the tax base as well and add
value to these houses.
Lehman: Did you say adding a garage?
Nasby: Yeah they're adding a garage in one case.
Lehman: How do we consider adding a garage part of a rehab program?
Nasby: Well in our housing rehab program currently if they did have a garage
that was deteriorating we would fix it because obviously it would be a
code violation. In this program we address code violation issues, but
we're also trying to increase the value of the properties. That was one
of the criteria of the TARP program and by adding...in this case
adding that garage it will be adding value to that property.
Lehman: Yeah, but that could be said of almost improvement you'd make to a
piece of property. Put a swimming pool in the backyard you increase
the value of the property.
Nasby: Yeah that's correct, but we've disqualified luxury items such as a hot
tub or wine cellar or swimming pool, but a garage is a standard.
Lehman: Well I'm glad to know that swimming pools are out.
Nasby: Steven?
Kanner: What's...the few loans that have been made what's the percent of...
Nasby: failure?
Kanner: ...median income?
Nasby: Median income? The range for the programs are people between 80
and 110% are the range.
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Kanner: Right.
Nasby: I don't... I didn't pull that information to know what those were, but
we are seeing people...I know the first few people were between 80
and 100 and I don't...the last loan I don't know where that one is, but I
don't have an exact number, but I can that for you.
Vanderhoef: Are we making any distinction with owner-owned and occupied versus
rental properties?
Nasby: Right now this is just owner-occupied.
Vanderhoef: Okay.
Nasby: And I think...I think there were some considerations when we've
talked to the bond consultants that if it were a commercial venture we
would have difficulty using the GO funding. So that's why this is
targeted on the home owners themselves.
Pfab: It looks like it's also a good way to improve a neighborhood.
Nasby: Yeah and one of the neighborhoods that we had talked about is...you
can see it on the...it's the western neighborhood there in yellow that's
the...
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Nasby: One of the neighborhoods that we're trying to stabilize and preserve
and we do have a project right there now.
Pfab: And if we don't do that that neighborhood could disappear (can't
hear). It's going to be deteriorated.
Nasby: Yeah and we do have some of our regular rehab dollars through our
federal programs go there, but this is, you know, kind of helping some
of the folks that are just over the limit and as such we are ranking them
loans and so they are able to pay it back. That is really is difference in
the programs.
Kanner: What would you say is a rough estimate of how much they're saving
over a commercial loan - a monthly payment? So they borrowed
$30,000, they're making their monthly payment back to us at 5% what
is the savings of that versus commercial loan. Would that be about 8%
or something?
O'Donnell: On no there's great rate at...
Nasby: Right now home equity loans are probably between 5 and 6.6.
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Champion: 5.25.
Nasby: Yeah between 5 and 6 percent. The real advantage comes on the term.
The home equity loans from the bank typically don't go up more than
10 years. We're offering up to a 20 year term.
Lehman: And qualifying for the loan. They'll qualify with us where as they
might not qualify with the bank.
Nasby: We try to do some underwriting standards and we have folks who
would probably would qualify for a bank loan but because we're able
to stretch out a term they're able to do a larger project than they would
normally.
Vanderhoef: And we have a lien on the property?
Nasby: We have a lien on the property that our lien does not exceed any other
liens on the property such as a first mortgage. We would exceed the
assessed value or the appraised value of the property. So we are fully
secured on that.
O'Donnell: Do you not feel that by granting a loan to somebody who can qualify
at a regular institution is taking somebody who's on the borderline out
of the picture?
Nasby: I guess we really haven't looked at the full list of folks on the list to
see if they would qualify. I know that we have one project that's
actually our largest project the one that's adding the garage. They're
redoing a total redo of the kitchen, bathroom and the electrical system
in the house is a $52,000 project and they had said that they'd been to
the bank and they couldn't have gotten as much. So they would have
done it this full project. But they could have certainly qualified for
some of that.
Kanner: So what would be the difference in payments roughly for 10 year
versus 20 year at close to the same interest rate?
Nasby: I would have to figure that out for you. I don't have my calculator
with me, but I can get that for you before you leave.
Kanner: And are there any energy efficiency things that people can do for rehab
with this?
Nasby: Yeah. We have done...when we do comp rehabs insulation is
typically one of the factors that is put into the bids and the projects to
bring like bathrooms we have, housing - some people have siding
done and so there's insulation placed that lowered their energy usage.
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New furnaces - people we had someone put in a, you know, very high
efficient furnace. That was one of their projects.
Pfab: Windows?
Nasby: Energy efficient windows. Yeah.
Vanderhoefi So with always 6 to 7 homes a year if we average the $30,000.
Nasby: Yes.
Vanderhoef: Are we making enough impact or would we be better off offering a
smaller loan and impacting more homes?
Nasby: That's something we certainly can discuss doing. When we initially
started this project...it's new so we didn't really have a maximum
amount. We would kind of see how the first few went. But that may
be something that we want to go. We may then make the program
more restrictive in not saying that you can add a garage or that we
address code items first - any maintenance rehab items and then if
they're still under whatever maximum loan amount they could
consider others. That may be something we want to do. But we
haven't gone out and advertised because we haven't...we don't have
that much money so...
Vanderhoefi When I hear 52 it concerns me because I suspect those people could
have gotten bank loan for at least part of it...
Nasby: That's correct.
Vanderhoefi ...and if we'd lowered that dollar amount from 30 it would encourage
them to take as much as they could get via the bank loan and this
would be more of a gap piece.
Champion: But then they'd have three payments and I doubt at those income
levels they could make three payments.
Vanderhoef: Well if they would consolidate their loans.
Nasby: That's where we would run into problems - adding that other payment.
O'Donnell: You'd still have to qualify Dee.
Champion: And they're only up to 110% of the median income so you're not
making a lot of money.
Nasby: And most of them are under 100.
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Pfab: I would say that (can't hear) get as much bang for your buck and also
as you went through the neighborhood you'd make substantial
improvement (can't hear) radiate out.
Nasby: Yeah and that's what we're hoping to do in the neighborhood. And we
are getting these monies back with their interest. So it's kind of a win-
win for the home owner and for the City.
Pfab: I'd kind of like to ask you did you find this before or what...how does
this...this is asset to the City right - a loan? In other words when we
make the loan...
Atkins: Yeah.
Vanderhoefi Yes and no.
Atkins: It's a receivable.
Pfab: .... and basically it covers our interest plus because if we lended...ifwe
had reserve funds and put them out interest we wouldn't get any more.
We'd probably get less. So it looks to me like it's an awfully easy to
justify this and I don't see very many down sides.
O'DonnelI: No, but we could have a default (can't hear).
Pfab: Well, but we are protected with a (can't hear). We might have to wait
it out.
Nasby: We do have a lien on them and like any other lender we could pursue
repayment through the courts, but you know this is new.
Atkins: The important thing about the project is targeted area - we pick
specific spots. That we were going to go after low and moderate
income folks who traditionally might have more difficulty securing the
funds and it just seemed to us not only the historic or the conservation
component, but that folks are going to in fact be increasing the value
of their property which ultimately generates additionally tax revenue
for us. it seemed a simple arithmetic calculation. And particularly
when we've got as best as we can fully secured loan.
Champion: And I really think it's that income bracket that has a lot of difficult
qualifying.
Atkins: That was the idea.
Champion: They don't qualify for low-income stuff and they don't qualify.
Atkins: And we targeted...again that was all part of the planning process.
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Lehman: It seemed to me that rehabilitation or maintenance are good, really
good projects. Remodeling I think is stretching.
Pfab: But if you get into a neighborhood that is kind of borderline you go in
and start making some improvements it definitely has a spillover
effect.
Champion: Right. It does.
Lehman: I'm well aware of that, but I'm just saying if you have...you could put
houses on 10 homes for what you're going to spend to remodel and
kitchen in one.
Atkins: Yeah.
Lehman: You can help 10 people with something they really need to be done...
Pfab: But do you help the neighborhood?
Lehman: Well I don't know that...anyway.
Pfab: This is targeted neighborhood. That's how- I see it and also you
preserve and improve a neighborhood.
Atkins: A real critical component Emie is we pick specific areas.
Lehman: Anywvay. My suspicion is we like the program. We might want to
tweak the administration of it, but I think everybody agrees with the
program.
Champion: I don't want to tweak it.
Nasby: Just to answer Rick...Rick figured up the difference in payments.
Lehman: Pardon?
Nasby: Rick just figured out the difference on payments for Steven's question.
A $30,000 at 5% of what we're getting if you had it for 10 years it
would be $318 a month and as we go out 20 years that drops the
payment for the homeowner to $197 a month. So that's the difference.
It's roughly a third.
Champion: That's nice.
Kanner: And the interest level that's about $50,000 through $68,000 for a
family of four.
Nasby: That would be...that's roughly correct.
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Kanner: And could we drop the income level if we wanted to?
Nasby: We can drop the income level if we want to. The problem we would
have then is when we do the underwriting on the loan would the
homeowner have the ability to make the monthly payment. That's
where we run into the problems. But we do have some folks that are
under the 80% that also want to participate because they want to do
things that aren't allowed in the regular rehab program.
Kanner: Because we had talked at one time we used that median income figure
which is pretty high in Iowa City and I thought your department had
brought up the idea of do we want to lower that for certain programs
since it is rather high.
Nasby: Yeah exactly. That's our prerogative on how we want to administer it.
Karmer: It was brought it up a year or two for our consideration whether we
want to lower that median income number for...we use that figure 80
to 100% of median income for a lot of different programs for
eligibility and in Iowa City it's rather high and perhaps it's not quite
getting the group that we want to assist with different forms of
assistance that we do in programs. When you're making $66,000 a
year for a family of four I would say you're rather comfortable even in
Iowa City. And I think we might want to consider lowering those
numbers for this program and other programs too.
O'Donnell: You can lower it to whatever you want, but ultimately you're still
going to have to qualify for the loan and I just don't see what that
accomplishes.
Lehman: Well I think what Steven is saying is if you have somebody at 60%
who's able to qualify for the loan you would give preference to those
people over those making 110.
Kanner: That's the tweaking of it. But what type of criteria do we want for
who gets the loan and what is eligible?
O'Donnell: Well, we can talk about later. This is really just to...
Pfab: And I think also the point you make supports for where Dee is coming
from. You know when you get into lower income people the project
would probably get smaller and you could spread it out a little more
too.
Kanner: All around (can't hear).
O'Donnell: We've got to move on.
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Atkins: Well just so you know we want to first of all run the idea by you and
there seems to be a general...there is consensus that it's a good idea.
I'm going to have Steve write sort of a little policy paper. At which
time, you know, Steve you can make proposed... I'll have those kinds
of things so you can at least on one paper this is our TARP program.
This is what we intend to do. Steve will prepare something like that
for us.
Pfab: Can you do this and put it in the packet - the Council packet so we can
get some public input?
Atkins: Well we're going to...it will go out to you as part of your regular.
What we'll do is likely write a work session item...
Pfab: So it gets out in...
Atkins: Oh, it'll be out.
Nasby: Absolutely.
Lehman: Everything we get is going to be out.
Atkins: Virtually everything you get goes out. Okay. The last few projects...
Kanner: Not the secret memo I got. It wasn't in there.
Atkins: The last few projects - capital outlay you're familiar with our general
policy where we appropriate so much money from GO debt. We're
kind of pushing that down a tad bit if you in the out years. The
runway extension I need to prepare a summary memo for you. This
thing has been beat around. These are the numbers given to us by the
airport some time ago. I think they seem low. And we've got to get
that so I'm going to have them prepare something that explains that.
Fire apparatus is our schedule replacement of equipment. The real
biggie in there is the aerial ladder truck. It's 20 years old. So you
know it was purchased in I believe 1986 at which time it was the last
year of federal revenue sharing monies. So the feds helped pay for it.
Well 20 years later - it was halfa million dollars then. It's now about
1.1 million dollars, but it's something we have to do. The economic
development is...
Vanderhoef: Wait a minute.
Atkins: Yes?
Vanderhoefi On fire apparatus is this all just replacement...
Atkins: Yes.
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Vanderhoefi ...or is there...there's no expansion of fleet?
Atkins: No.
Vanderhoef: And then the question I need answered is when a new fire station
comes on line...
Atkins: I'm sorry Dee I skipped four. I meant to answer that for you.
$300,000 is intended to buy a piece of land, do the engineering and
design work. We figured the total project that is to staff it with a
pumper - that is the hardware, not the personnel - build the building -
the whole package is about a million dollars. I'm encouraging Andy
to get the land bought, get it designed even if we have to roll it up and
put it on the shelf for the time being. That's the plan here. And you
would see a budget at some time in the future Dee I think ~ve were
going at $700,000 and that is to build it, equipment it. It's not, you
know, a huge building. It could be anywhere from $500,000 -
$600,000. The pumper is in the neighborhood of $250,000 to
$300,000. Yes, Sir?
Pfab: And then also we'd be ready in case there was any federal funds.
Atkins: If we ever get federal money for fire service I will truly be...
Pfab: We have firemen on T.V. all the time.
Atkins: I've been doing this for 30 years and I don't think I've ever seen really
a nickel.
Kanner: So you don't anticipate this within the five year plan?
Atkins: No, I do not. Not until the feds...or not until state settles down on tax
policy and we know where we're going. A couple years ago we hired
the first six and then you remember the bottom fell out of the rollback.
We need three more full time at least to staff the building and we're
just simply not in the position to support that right now. Economic
development is an annual and effect appropriation of $250,000 from
GO debt to be used for various projects as Council would see fit.
Please note that this is a budget and if there was not a project we
would not intend to do the borrowing.
Kanner: Say that again.
Atkins: If we do not have a project we would not borrow those monies - the
250 per year. Also it cannot accumulate. It's an IRS regulation that
after 2 years we have to have the monies encumbered. And I believe
that's it. That's the list ofpro, iects. 64-1a is the financing. It's just
the...that got approved with the agreement. One final item for this
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morning is what kind of time do you want to spend on the unfunded.
There's 118 of them. I'm assuming that you didn't want us to walk
through them ail. There's a couple in there that I at least want you to
think about.
Lehman: Foster Road is going to be something that we're going have to deal
with.
O'Donnell: Well we are Ernie, but I don't think it's worth even considering in the
budget.
Lehman: No, but when that peninsula project gets going if they sell the 50 or 60
or 80 houses the next couple years...
Atkins: You're going to hear about it.
Lehman: ...you're going to have to deal with that before it would appear in our
C1P just as we did Mormon Trek extended and a couple others.
Vanderhoef: A project that I looked at that's out there and it isn't a huge one is the
Myrtle Avenue...
Atkins: Myrtle Avenue.
Vanderhoef: Uh-huh for...
Atkins: I know ~vhere Myrtle Avenue is. Is there something folks? Jeff can
you help me out on Myrtle? That's not on our list ifI recall Dee.
Vanderhoef: Yeah it is.
Atkins: Oh it is. Okay.
Davidson: Is that the signal project Dee?
Vanderhoef: The signal project and I heard on the radio yesterday that the daycare
that has for 25 years been at St. Andrews is being moved to the Villa
so I suspect that we will have a lot more increase in traffic wanted to
use Myrtle at least and certainly getting that one lit at this point
might...
Davidson: We studied that intersection Dee just so you know kind of where it's
at. The expense...we were close to a warrant but not quite there...but
close which means that traffic on Highway 6 or traffic on Myrtle could
possibly get that to where it ~vould achieve a warrant. The expensive
part of that is the left turn lane. You don't want to signalize that
without a left turn lane otherwise you're cutting the capacity of
northbound on the highway in half. Somebody's yielding to make a
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left turn. So that's the expensive part of it. I can't remember just
exactly what number we have in the CIP, but most of the expense is
for the left hand turn lane.
Vanderhoef: $80,000 or something.
Lehman: $80,000.
Davidson: Okay. That's just a signal. You're probably going to be talking
another $250,000 by the time you do the geometric improvements you
need for that intersection. And I will tell you that according to the
studies that we've done these 5, 6, 7 critical intersections that's
probably the next one after those 5 or 6. That Foster Road and
Dubuque is one that somebody just brought up. That's probably an
even more critical one with respect to what's needed right now.
Vanderhoef: And Church Street probably.
Davidson: Church Street another one. Yeah.
Vanderhoef: Those three. I'd be happy to take traffic calming dollars and put them
towards these intersections.
Kanner: Along with that area maybe we can...I'm sorry Irvin go ahead. Well
along with this project maybe we can start the discussion going like ~ve
did with the University and Coralville about Highway 6 near First that
we're starting to get sidewalk on coming around the bend there at
Hawk...what's the drive there?
Vanderhoefi Hawkins Drive.
Kanner: Hawkins Drive. Also getting sidewalk I think it's University property
on the west side...well I'm just using that as an example but we need
the sidewalk ! think on Riverside Drive. There's a lot of people going
along on the west side xvhere there's no sidewalk.
Davidson: In addition to that sidewalk Steve there's been some thought at least in
the Planning Department through our district planning process of
looking at streetscape improvements in general for that corridor.
Lehman: That's in here somewhere.
Davidson: Which would include the side.
Kanner: Is this in here?
Vanderhoefi Yeah.
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Lehman: Riverside redrive, redevelopment - 117.
Vanderhoef: It's there. We talked about it two or three years ago.
O'Donnell: Is that railroad property on that side?
Vanderhoef: On the west side?
O'Donnell: On the west side (can't hear).
Atkins: We did have in the departments - Karin's departments...
Vanderhoef: It's almost all University.
Atkins: ...a proposal study of Riverside Drive and I removed it.
Vanderhoef: That's where that parking lot is.
Atkins: It was $100,000.
Lehman: That came about partially from the southwest plant.
Vanderhoef: And on the west side is where we took the old building out.
Atkins: Yes that's correct.
Pfab: Dee I have a question. You had made a comment what you say the
early childhood development area...education area in St. Andrews is
moving?
Vanderhoefi It's moving and they hope to be moved by the first of May.
Pfab: And where are they going?
Vanderhoef: To the old Villa.
Pfab: That doesn't...what is the old Villa?
Atkins: Greenwood Manor.
Pfab: Oh, Greenwood Manor. Oh.
Kanner: Could you note for what I'm questioning of this 2 million dollar
project at least sidewalk getting discussions started like we did down
at Hawkins with other folks to get a sidewalk there. There's a lot of
people coming down Myrtle and coming from Benton that use that
side and there's a well worn path there.
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Atkins: I know it. Yeah. Ernie, that's ali I have unless you have other
unfunded.
Miscellaneous
O'Dormell: The dog park Steve.
Champion: I was just going to ask about the dog park.
Atkins: Dog park? Okay.
O'Dormell: A lot of discussion on that.
Atkins: Dog park is not a huge project obviously. We have encouraged them
to look at a site out at the landfill. They appeared generally to be
favorable inclined for that.
Vanderhoef: On top of (can't hear).
Atkins: Those folks I've talked to...what's that?
Vanderhoef: Would that be on top of a closed... ?
Atkins: No, no that is not on top of a closed, huh? It's kind of closer to the
entry as you drive in. it's offto your left. Who's the what
thing...thank you. The toy airplane people are out in that general area.
Lehman: Do the dogs like airplanes?
Atkins: I do not know whether the dogs like airplanes...mine doesn't.
Lehman: What about the airport?
Vanderhoef: Oh, that'll buzz them.
Champion: Do airplanes like dogs.
Atkins: Anyway 1 suspect particularly at the public hearing. Again it's not a
huge project if you were to move it around. I think they're putting
together some of their own fundraising where they're thinking about
sharing. Terry is nodding his head on all of that. the real expense is
the fence. Right Terry?
Tmeblood: Pardon?
Atkins: The fence. And a shelter. You need to build some kind of a shelter
out there, do you want to talk? It depends on what they want. Yeah.
We don't know that yet.
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Lehman: Well we'll find out.
Atkins: You're going to hear more about it.
Vanderhoef: Any conversations with Coralville for a joint.
Atkins: Terry is shaking his head yes or no. a joint dog park?
Vanderhoefi I'1I tell you if it's built...
Atkins: I didn't mean to laugh at you. I understand I can assure you.
Vanderhoef: We have shared plans with our animal shelter and activities and if it's
being built way out on the west side I think we need to be opening
discussion with them.
Atkins: I think what appealed to them was the...and there's no doubt that other
than Iowa City dogs will be using the place. I think they're going to
put together some proposals that encourage licensing requirements to
use the park and I think there's some very responsible policies.
Vanderhoef: Memberships.
Atkins: Memberships that's been talked about.
Vanderhoef: City residents pay one membership fee and non-residents pay a
different fee.
Champion: Are we going to send the police out there to check the licensing on...?
Trueblood: I was just going to let you know that it was just hand delivered to me
late yesterday afternoon some information that are getting to you
which will probably be out in your packet this week. And they don't
have any cost estimates put together, but it does have listing of what
they see as needing to be done.
O'Donnell: Who's they?
Trueblood: This new group that has formed. They call themselves Dog PAC.
Lehman: Canines anonymous.
Trueblood: PAC - P-A-C - Park Action Committee. Dog Park Action Committee.
O'Donnell: Do ~ve have a recommendation from Parks and Rec on anything?
Trueblood: No, you don't.
Pfab: Being carefully studied as a (can't hear).
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Lehman: Well you could also say that Parks and Recreation has not
recommended a dog park as a high priority. Is that correct?
Trueblood: That is correct.
Lehman: Thank you.
Trueblood: But they've also recommended that a community group get active and
that's what's happened now.
Vanderhoef.' Which included their own fundraising.
Champion: I'm still concerned and I know we don't have money but how are you
(can't hear) parks and (can't hear). Is that...I mean we are getting
more and more park land all the time. We just do it all natural.
Trueblood: With both parks and trails we are finding it necessary to do more and
more prioritization. The best example I can give you is on the hard
surface trails it's always been a practice to remove snow from those -
not the nature trails, but the hard surface ones. And we are now
dividing those into high priority/Iow priority. And the low priority
hard surface trails will be the last ones done if they get done for
example.
Champion: I think that's right.
Trueblood: And some of our parks are not being kept mowed as often as they used
to be. (Can't hear) things like that, but we're at a point where we have
to make more and more of those choices and therefore get more
complaints. Although I'd have to say we haven't gotten a lot of
complaints, but more complaints about, you know, why isn't this park
being mowed more often for example.
Pfab: This is probably a dumb question can you put on a low priority trail
salt maybe instead? You said some of those trails or I think you called
them trails.., yeah that you don't keep the snow off hard surface is it
possible to put some kind of chemical salt?
Trueblood: We do that already. Yeah.
Champion: But it wouldn't work on (can't hear).
Pfab: No, I...
Kanner: Steve?
Atkins: Yes. Terry, hang on.
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Kanner: Well it's for our engineering.
Atkins: Oh, engineering.
Fosse: I'll take that one.
Atkins: Yes Sir, go ahead.
Kanner: Terry, how do you build a space station and what are the major
components of that?
Atkins: That's really credible.
Trueblood: Steve will take that one.
Atkins: Yeah, I'll handle that.
Karmer: For some of these we have where storm sewer is running into our other
sewer and there's some unfunded planning. What does that cost us in
terms of having to treat that water? And how do we weigh that against
replacing at the cost of replacing it? Do we have for instance 91 Van
Buren rusting through, found somewhat ominous...
Fosse: Oh, that's a...that's a old corrugated metal pipe that's rusting through
and our concern for replacing that one is it's on the downstream of that
coal tar area and we need to identify whether it's in or out so we know
whether or not we can dig it up or look at other means such as trying to
line it.
Pfab: You might try to line it possibly?
Fosse: Possibly.
Pfab: Okay.
Fosse: But that one doesn't lend itself easy solution.
Kanner: But it's in unfunded which means it's not within the 5-year plan.
Fosse: Yes.
Kanner: Why is that?
Fosse: Just a decision on how to allocate resources.
Lehman: You can't put a number on it.
Fosse: Yeah that's part of it. I mean we're studying just what is the right fix.
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Kanner: No, there is a dollar amount.
Lehman: Yeah, but if you don't know whether we're going to line or dig that
decision...
Atkins: Those projects because it's on the unfunded list does not mean it's
ignored.
Lehman: Right.
Atkins: Understand that there are such as this Van Buren that Rick was
alluding to once we have answers on other projects we may bring it
back to you fairly immediately. Now remember built into our overall
financing is we try to remain some...we always...always - we try to
maintain anywhere from a half a million to a million dollar balance of
road use tax. We certainly have capacity within our debt. I mean we
have to ability to move fairly quickly when we learn of some sort of
circumstance that needs your attention.
Kanner: But what is cost? What is it costing us to have these breeches in our
stormwater? Don't we have extra water and ~ve have to treat that.
Fosse: In this case it is the storm sewer pipe, so any water that comes into it
just goes into the creek. There's no additional cost there, the potential
additional cost is if we begin to get a large void forming over the pipe
that causes damage to the street. And we want to keep an eye on it in
that regard.
Pfab: Is this a project also that could be opening a Pandora's box because of
the underneath...
Fosse: The coal tar?
Pfab: Yeah.
Fosse: That's what we don't know yet.
Pfab: I mean that's a potential that's not measurable is it?
Fosse: Yeah. Other ones like this we find we pretty much dig them up and fix
them, but we're being a little more cautious here.
Karmer: The Brooklyn Park storm sewer #82 talks about the water going the
other way. The water...
Fosse: Yes. That's one where we've taken the design - we're about the
intermediate point on design - yet and we're thinking we can get that
done for under $100,000. so we're going to get that done hopefully
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this year as part of that $300,000 a year that's in for sanitary sewer
repairs.
Kanner: Okay. So these are two that even though they're unfunded #82 and
#91 they might be worked on.
Fosse: Brooklyn for sure. Yeah.
Kanner: But we're using a different funding stream that's already accounted
for.
Lehman: How important is that?
Atkins: We set aside in the water and sewer fund every year in the budget
about $300,000 for the very specific purpose of taking on the Brooklyn
Park kind of a project if we have to. We know it's there, it's budget
operationally. Often times I won't even bring them back to you. It's
got to get fixed. We go to work. Now you'll reward the bids and do
those things routinely, but we try to move on those fairly quickly. We
always maintain...try to always try to maintain a reserve in our road
use. Always maintain some sort of capacity within our debt service.
The only fund that I have some concerns about this year like I pointed
out on Monday is the sewer fund. It's not...we're not overly
concerned about it because we also have as a requirement that we have
a 2 million dollar set aside for repair purposes that we have to account
for to our bond holders. In other words they get the additional comfort
that if some huge problem happens and it's hundreds of thousands of
dollars to fix we have a source of money. We go fix it and then we
have to repay it. But we can get those projects taken care of very
quickly.
Lehman: How important is that Sandusky sewer?
Fosse: lt's still an issue for the neighborhood. What has changed since the
last time the Council considered it and had funded it, we have a
different mix of people in the neighborhood now. Some of those that
were against the project in the past are gone and the new owners favor
it. The other thing is the...that being one of the first stormwater
management basins in the City didn't have a stormwater management
easement as we know them today. The area was protected by
covenants. Those covenants have since expired. So the new thing in
this equation is there is nothing to protect that stormwater management
area from people filling it in, putting structures out there and reducing
its volume and exasperating the problem that currently exists. Yes.
Yep. There are some property owners which wouldn't receive damage
by doing that, but their neighbor might. And we are working with one
of the property owners out there right now to make some small
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improvements to the back of their home to try to keep the water from
coming into their walkout. That was a property where in past years the
previous owners never revealed that they had a problem. But on
August 23''d last summer the ne~v owners found out they did. So we're
working with them to do some small scale improvements there.
Kanner: Steve can you point to that one there please?
Fosse: It is...yes it's right in this area here. Yep. There's K-mart. This is
Sandusky. Here's where Broadway comes in.
Pfab: Borders up there by Broadway. The neighborhood is up into that area
too.
Fosse: It's...yeah it's mostly south of there.
Pfab: Yeah, but mostly south, but it gets in there close.
Kanner: So you're looking for funding for this?
Fosse: The neighborhood is. Yes they are.
Champion: What needs to be done?
Fosse: The one thing that's working in our favor out there is the large basin
behind K-mart - the rather deep one - has some excess capacity
available to it. So we would put in a larger piping system to
essentially shift that storage from the backyards to the K-mart basin -
to that other basin. So a fix does exist. It's just kind of painful
implementing it both financially and the impact on yards when we do
it.
Pfab: Also is there...at some point in time I know I was out in that area
people were complaining that it ended up kind of being a dump site. A
number of little items were left and thrown in their toys.
Atkins: Yeah a number of years ago. That has not...I have not had that as a
recurring complaint and you will find...
Pfab: Well I heard it and I saw it and apparently people's...
Atkins: ... cans and bottles and paper and people dump things.
Pfab: ...bikes disappear in the area.
Atkins: Yeah that has happened in the past.
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Pfab: Some of the neighbors were working to figure out a way to solve that
and they were thinking maybe it was the City's responsibility but I
guess the City has no responsibility.
Atkins: No that's the complaint that I got and I meant that respectfully Sir. Go
pick it up, throw it in your trash and we'll get rid of it for you.
Karmer: Just to clarify you're saying the neighborhood would have to pick up
the total cost of that.
Fosse: No. Not unless you decided to assess it.
Kanner: But you're saying...you're saying the City would then...the plan is for
the City to pay for all.
Fosse: That's what was proposed a few years ago when it was in the budget.
Atkins: And the neighbors wouldn't agree to it.
Pfab: Well then they would have had to tell that there was water in the
basement. They wouldn't have gotten the house sold.
Atkins: There's lots of things that they were apparently (can't hear) that
persuaded them from doing it.
Vanderhoefi I mentioned it the other night but I'm still a little concerned with our
whole traffic and street plan that I'm looking at the #32, 33, and then
somewhat 51.
Pfab: What page?
Vanderhoef: Down by Kirkwood.
Kanner: D14.
Atkins: Under unfunded 31, 32, and 33 are the Lower Muscatine projects and
51 is the Sycamore. It's all around the Sycamore Mall, Kirkwood
Community College area.
Vanderhoef: We are increasing in traffic considerable down there and with the
expansion of Kirkwood we're going to have even more with the total
build out of Sycamore Mall and the other areas that we had put into
that TiF district.
Atkins: New activity.
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Vanderhoef: We are encouraging more traffic there and we need to be sure that we
have good street and capacity down there number one so we don't
discourage what we were already trying to encourage.
Atkins: So you do know and I don't know exactly where we are on it...I know
that Kirkwood, City Staff, Oral B have worked on the road to run
behind Oral B and exit out to Mall Drive. That would have - correct
me Jeff- that would have a lot of...
Vanderhoef: Impact.
Atkins: ,..relief to that area. It'd be a big help. That's being worked on. I
don't know exactly where it is right now.
Champion: That's a big bottleneck is pulling in and out.
Atkins: Is pulling in., .my daughter having to go to school there and pulling in
and out at class change was difficult. This was it would allow a
second way out. And that's being worked on as we speak.
Vanderhoefi So that takes it over to First Avenue.
Pfab: Right and Mall Drive.
Vanderhoefi So it's which way you go if you're headed north...
Atkins: It will help, it won't resolve it.
Vanderhoef: But going to Highway 6...
Atkins: But we've met with Kirkwood to develop a little bit of an agenda. I
don't know a couple months ago we were visiting with them trying to
get some handle on what they wanted to do. They have a least from all
impressions they will continue to invest in that campus. I mean that's
the move. I mean it's just become very popular for them. So they will
continue to put money into it. And again another building is already
planned.
Kanner: Kirkwood is not in the TIF district presently. Isn't that what we talked
about?
Atkins: I don't believe so Steve. I think that one parking lot where Hardees
used to be was in, but the remainder of it...the rest of Kirkwood is not.
Of course they're tax exempt anyway.
Kanner: But for some of these areas go through TIF districts right so we can for
future TIF agreements use directly finance some of these projects.
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Atkins: I think...let me map those to give you...but I think your assessment is
correct that they do go through those TIF districts and that's the way to
go after them financially. That's correct. We can look at that too.
Champion: Does Kirkwood...when you're tax exempt like state property basically
do they contribute anything to the fire, police or...no?...nothing?
Atkins: No.
Champion: Wow.
Pfab: They're just good citizens.
Champion: Yeah.
Vanderhoef: Now we have a contract for fire with the University.
Atkins: With the University. Yes we do.
Vanderhoefi Could we have similar for Kirkwood?
Atkins: I guess. I don't know the goodness. They could say sure.
Vanderhoef: Technically another public...
Atkins: Yeah we could ask the question.
Vanderhoef: Norm will thank us a lot.
Atkins: I'm sure Norm will say and we really appreciate all the things you do
for us. Next question.
Kanner: We provide it...we're not obligated to provide. We just provide
because it's the thing to do is fire protection.
Atkins: Yeah. Fire and police related activities at Kirkwood are probably very
minimal and they almost inevitably involves some sort of an
emergency and I can't imagine that we're going to quival over whether
they're paid or not paid. So we're going to be there.
Vanderhoef: I'd rather have them help us with the road.
Atkins: And I think there, Dee, there is a very real possibility because you
know the road behind Oral B that's being considered that's between...
Vanderhoefi That's on their property.
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Atkins: That's their property and it's to their advantage but I would suspect we
could talk to Kirkwood about participating in road improvements.
And they certainly would listen to us.
Pfab: I think they xvould say we're kind of doing it in time by putting
another road up.
Atkins: They might. They might.
Vanderhoef: Well that's on their property so it's...
Atkins: It's a glorified driveway is really all it is.
Vanderhoef: Yeah it is. That's ali it is. Getting out to our street which is certainly
helpful.
Pfab: Right.
Atkins: . Ernie I have nothing else on unfunded unless you all do. To remind
you of the schedule the 27th is Boards and Commission, 28th is an open
meeting. And while you're here you are all supposed to bring your
calendars with you.
Schedule
Lehman: I will not be here on March 24th.
Atkins: Okay.
Kanner: Where it says reschedule those are ones we're going to eliminate?
Kart: No, Steven just to clarify if you look at the top of the memo this is the
proposed schedule based on availability of certain Council members.
It was never distributed to anyone but Council. The purpose of it was
to take a look at your calendars, see if there were other issues that
needed to be addressed.
Kanner: The proposal...just wait...the proposal is for reschedule is to eliminate
ones that have been proposed before.
Kart: Correct.
Karmer: Okay.
Lehman: The March rescheduling is because of National League of Cities
meeting?
Atkins: Yep. That's one of the reasons.
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Lehman: In March.
Vanderhoef: I have two meetings back to back with a couple of days between and if
I could use one airline ticket to attend both meetings is what I'm
hoping to do.
Champion: Why couldn't we do the 24th and 26th on the 25th? Would you be gone
the whole day? (Can't hear) the 24th.
Karr: The March schedule is somewhat, though not totally, dependent on
budget approval as well. There is a desire for all seven to be here for
approval of the budget. If that is approved prior to any of those March
meetings that would affect some of the concerns I've heard.
Lehman: Well the budget hearing is on February 18th. IS that correct?
Karr: Correct.
Atkins: That's the plan.
Lehman: Well my assumption would be that we'd probably would approve the
budget on the l0th of March.
Karr: I 1th.
Lehman: 11th which is the next regular meeting.
Atkins: Because we need a couple days - it has to be in by the 15th.
Lehman: Oh boy.
Atkins: Yeah.
Vanderhoefi And Staff needs some additional time and if I stay for the full NLC I
don't leave Washington D.C. until after lunch on the 11th.
Lehman: You're not in town on the 3rd and 4th?
Vanderhoef: Correct.
O'Donnell: Who all is going to Washington D.C.?
Kanner: I haven't decided. Possibly.
Vanderhoef: I possibly will.
Kanner: But...
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Vanderhoefi If I skip the lobbying day on the Hill and come home Monday night or
first thing on Tuesday morning I'd be back for a Tuesday meeting but
I still would miss Monday night.
Atkins: You talking a rough Staff...you're free to go. Yeah.
Pfab: Before they do I'd to say a special thank you for them showing up
and...
Lehman: For showing up.
Vanderhoef: For showing up with good information.
Lehman: Thank you all for showing up on time.
Pfab: Taking you away from other necessary duties.
Atkins: And we appreciate that. thank you very much.
Vanderhoefi They appreciate having a daytime meeting.
Lehman: Are there other comments about the proposed schedule? Does
anybody else have any conflicts?
O'Donnell: What day are you going to be gone?
Lehman: I am not going to be here March 24th, 25th, 26th or whatever. That
week I'm not here.
Champion: We just cancel that meeting.
O'Donnell: Yeah why not?
Vanderhoef: Oh, March 24th.
O'Donnell: If there's nothing pending.
Vanderhoef: Are you saying March or February?
Lehman: I'm saying March. February as near as I can see January, February we
have no conflicts with anybody. Nobody has indicated that.
Atkins: We need a meeting in March to vote the budget.
Karr: Well Steve you need a meeting between February 18th and March 14th
to vote the budget
Atkins: That's right. You have to have that.
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Karr: With all due respect you can set any meeting you'd like. These dates
just happen to be Mondays, Tuesdays. If there are other dates you
would like to consider they're still just as special when you switch
from the regular schedule.
Lehman: The l0th and 11th is okay with everybody.
O'Donnell: That's fine.
Vanderhoef: Of March?
O'Donnell: Yeah.
Vanderhoef: Well no I won't be here the 10th. Anybody that's at National League
of Cities will not be here.
O'Donnell: Well we're not going to vote on it till the 11th. That's the formal
meeting. The l0th is the work session.
Vanderhoef: And if you stay for the full conference you can't be back in time for
the 11th. So I would personally like to see us get it done in February
because Emie is going to be gone the end of February and then I will
leave on the first of March. So there's...
Karr: Okay Dee with that thought there would be between the 18th when you
held your public hearing and Ernie's departure there would be the 19th,
20th and 21st if that's your goal to have a special meeting to adopt the
budget after the public hearing, but prior to his departure before March
1.
Champion: What days of the week are those?
Karr: They are Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
Atkins: What days are they again?
Pfab: 19th is on...
Karr: Wednesday, Thursday, Friday after the Tuesday public hearing.
Lehman: We can't do the first reading...
Vanderhoefi We only do one it's
Karr: It's a resolution.
Lehman: I realize that, but I don't think it's appropriate. If we're going to do a
special meeting to approve the budget the day after the public hearing
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January 15, 2003 Budget Work Session Page 89
we may as well do it the night of the hearing and we (can't hear) do
that.
Atkins: And I strongly recommend don't vote on the budget the night of the
hearing.
Lehman: No. Nor do we do it within two days.
Vanderhoefi Are you still here in town on the 24th.9
Karr: No.
O'DonnelI: How about the March 3rd and 4th. Is anybody going to be gone then?
KaiT: Dee is.
Vanderhoef: Yes.
O'Donnell: She's a little traveler.
Vanderhoefi I'm out the first through the I 1 th,
Champion: 10 days at a conference?
Vanderhoefi Two different conferences.
O'Donnell: Both in the same place?
Vanderhoef: Uh-huh. Both in D.C. I'll switch hotels, but...
Lehman: Well we may have to meet on the 11th. ][ don't know when else we're
going to do it.
O'Dormell: Well just set it. I'll be here. I'm not going to Washington.
Kanner: So the I 1th Dee you could make it back for the formal meeting?
Vanderhoef: IfI skip the...going to the Hill.
Karr: And that would be true of anybody attending the National League of
Cities.
Vanderhoef: Yeah. Anybody that goes...
Atkins: Tell me what's wrong with the week of February the 24th?
Kart: Ernie's gone.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council Meeting of January 15, 2003.
January 15, 2003 Budget Work Session Page 90
Lehman: No, March 24th. February I'm okay. That's right I'm gone the 24th,
25th
Kan.: No, you're not...
Lehman: That's right. I'm gone (can't hear).
Vanderhoefi That's why it pushes...
Lehman: We're going to have to leave it March l0th and 11th. I don't see any
other time.
Vanderhoef: Unless we do it on the 20th or 21st.
Karr: Okay. How about...we could talk about this is you'd like to or if else
you'd like to think about it we'll put it on the work session on Tuesday
night. You'll have a...it's going to be a short night...
Atkins: By the way Tuesday we believe we can start at 6:00. A short agenda.
Karr: And for that reason we could certainly discuss it again. But there's not
a lot of movement.
(End of Tape 03-08, Beginning of Tape 03-09)
Atkins: You can't decide today on this?
Karr: If you...
Atkins: Okay. If you can't we'll put it...I mean Marian is right we'll put it on
the agenda for...
Kan': And if you can then we can do another schedule, put in your packet
tomorrow and we could firm it up. I don't know what else I can do to
help you.
Atkins: I don't know either.
O'Donnell: The only thing I see is the l0th and I 1th.
Lehman: 11 th looks like...
Champion: You great travelers settle it. I'll be there whenever you decide. I'm
leaving. Goodbye. Thank you. Have a great day.
O'Dormell: On the 11th Dee is not going to be there, do I have an understanding
you want all seven?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council Meeting of January 15, 2003.
January 15, 2003 Budget Work Session Page 91
Atkins: I...look it's your call, but I believe you're always better off on
something as important as the budget to express your opinions and that
should be done with all seven of you. Now if you don't want to do
that that's up to you all too.
Vanderhoefi A daytime meeting on the 20th or the 21st what concerns me is that
we've always heard previously that it takes several days possibly to
get the budget ready to send in so we are squeezing Staff if we do it on
the 11th.
Atkins: The 11th is about the last day.
Vanderhoefi And it has to be in on the 15th.
Atkins: The Staff needs three days. Yeah.
Vanderhoef: It's a tight fit for Staff.
Atkins: We'd be hustling for that. We could get it done.
Kanner: On the other hand though we were talking about Steve doing a video
about the budget and if we want to give the public at least a chance to
see the budget and think about it and the public meeting also
newspaper and medias and then get back to us I don't want to rush that
too much. I'd rather go for the 11th in March.
Atkins: Let us know. Alright we'll put it on the work session. We're going to
be there on Tuesday at 6:00 because we got to get a date.
Karr: We're going to be setting public hearings and other matters. It's not
just the budget. It has ramifications and I just need to know the
schedule.
Chmnpion: Whenever you set the public hearing (can't hear) Council before?
Karr: We can't Connie that's the problem. We've got some publication
requirements and xve can't publish it any sooner than...
O'Donnell: Any day Marian.
Champion: Have a great day. I'll be here.
Atkins: Well thank you all.
Champion: Thank you.
O'Donnell: I don't know what else to tell you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council Meeting of January 15, 2003.
January 15, 2003 Budget Work Session Page 92
Atkins: I'm not sure I know what to tell you.
O'Donnell: You got the vagabonds and you just...
Vanderhoefi I will come home and be here for...
Kanner: At least the formal meeting. So to give people that might be going to
Washington a (can't hear) chance can we have then the work session
that same day at I think you mentioned at 6:00 or 5:00?
Pfab: Your call.
Kart: We don't...you mean on the 10~h and 1 lth?
Kanner: On the 11th.
Vanderhoef: Instead of the l0th have both of them on the 11th.
Pfab: That works. We'll do whatever you want.
Kanner: So Dee.
Karr: Well we no longer have a quorum.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City
Council Meeting of January 15, 2003.