HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-12-01 TranscriptionDecember 1, 2008 City Council Meeting With Legislators Page 1
December 1, 2008 City Council Meeting With Legislators 5:30 P.M.
COUNCIL PRESENT: Bailey, Champion, Correia, Hayek, Wright, Wilburn (arrived at
5:30 P.M.)
COUNCIL ABSENT: O'Donnell
STAFF: Karr, Dilkes, Helling, Lombardo
GUESTS: Senator Robert Dvorsky, Senator Joe Bolkcom,
Representative Dave Jacoby, Representative Vicki Lensing,
Representative Mary Mascher
Welcome and Introductions:
Bailey/ Technically we probably don't need to do introductions, but Marian wants a mic check,
so we will go around and do introductions. I want to thank you all for being here.
Um...I know all of you, but um, I'm Regenia, and thank you for, uh, spending an hour
with us, and um, we'll just go around the table. Mike?
Wright/ Mike Wright.
Champion/ Connie Champion.
Hayek/ Matt Hayek.
Helling/ Dale Helling.
Dvorsky/ Senator Bob Dworsky.
Jacoby/ Dave Jacoby.
Bolkcom/ Joe Bolkcom.
Lensing/ Vicki Lensing.
Lombardo/ Michael Lombardo.
Mascher/ Mary Marcher.
Correia/ Amy Correia.
Gunn/ Tyler Gunn. I'm the Student Government Liaison.
Alternative Revenue Sources:
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Bailey/ Are we all good, Marian? Okay. Well, thanks again for being here. Um, I think we
have a list of our legislative priorities, but before we dive into these, I really want to
thank all of you, um, from us and the citizens of Iowa City for all the work that you did
this summer, and continue to do regarding the flood. I mean, you...certainly not apart-
time Legislature in Iowa City, or in Iowa, and we really appreciate everything that you've
been doing for us. We've, um, appreciated the fact that you've been checking in with
staff, and with Council Members, and that you're so accessible. So, I really do want to
express our gratitude for that. It's made a huge difference, um, knowing that we have
somebody to call, and um, knowing that we can get pretty quick answers, because
sometimes it's been frustrating on other levels. So, thank you very much. Um, just want
to run down these, uh, legislative priorities, give a little more detail, have a...have a
conversation about them, if you have questions. I think most of them should look pretty
familiar to you. Um, so let's just start first of all with this, um, the one at the top -support
local revenue options that do not impact, um, State revenues, and I know that you've seen
a lot on this. Some of the things that we're talking with some of our colleagues in the
Metro Coalition about are franchise fees, um, and encouraging you to look at language to
include legalizing provisions up to 5%. Um, a local income surtax. There's a paper out
there by Peter Fischer, talked a little bit about a local income surtax, which is also used
by some, I think, school districts. So it's not something unusual, but it's certainly being
discussed as an option, and in addition in that paper by Peter Fischer there was in one of
our Info Packets, and I can certainly get you a copy if you're interested in looking at it,
because I know you don't have enough to read (laughter). Um, payment in lieu of taxes
from tax- exempt organizations. I know that this has been discussed. It would be a very,
um, challenging issue, but something that perhaps would make a difference, particularly
in communities like Iowa City where we have a lot of property, um, with, uh, owned by
tax-exempt organizations, and we would probably include the University in that if we
would look at something like that. Does anybody else want to add anything to those?
But, as you know, we've heavily reliant upon property tax, and you've been hearing this
for years and years and years. We really do need to diversify our revenue streams to be
able to provide the services that citizens expect us to. Um, we've talked with you a little
bit about hotel/motel tax over the years. There was, um, at the end of the 2008 session,
there was a Senate File 2400 that included an amendment to exempt non-profit
organizations and governmental entities from paying Iowa Hotel/Motel Tax, and we ask,
um, that you, uh, get rid of this amendment. It has about an $82,000 annual impact on
Iowa City that's based upon, uh, hotel years, uh, 2007's estimates for non-profit, or non-
profit and governmental entities, and in the area it has about a $200,000 impact. That
would include the hotels in Coralville and North Liberty. So it has a pretty huge impact
in Johnson County. So it would be very beneficial to, um, remove this exemption from
Iowa Code. I think it's 423. Um, additionally, we encourage you to, um, increase the
minimum tax by raising the percentage. We've talked about this year after year after
year, um, or setting a...another idea that...that's been out is setting a flat amount per stay.
User dollars that come into communities from typically outside the community, and we
think... and we make good use of them, um, 50% of our hotel/motel tax revenues goes to
our police force, um, 25% is used for, um, Parks and Rec, or 27.5 I think is used for Parks
and Rec, and the rest we use to support the Convention and Visitors Bureau. So, this is
something that really helps us, once again, diversify revenues. Anybody like to add
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anything to this? I don't want this to become a monologue here. Questions? Yeah!
(several talking) Jump in with questions now, yes!
Jacoby/ Can I ask, was, uh, Kaufman invited by any chance?
Bailey/ I think so. Yes, he was.
Jacoby/ And he declined? Okay. I'm a little disappointed. He rarely makes it to any of the Iowa
City meetings. First of all, I'll say that, as far as the hotel/motel tax. I already filed a bill,
and a short explanation of that, obviously that bill is a large bill coming out of the shoot
at the end of the session.
Bailey/ Uh-huh.
Jacoby/ And the Department of Revenue, the Department of Revenue said don't worry, it's
technical. Trust us. (several talking) Yeah, apparently it was technical. So, it's called a
little holy heck in Des Moines because they said don't worry, it's just.. .
Bailey/ Uh-huh, clean up some language, yeah.
Jacoby/ Level the playing field and it won't affect you. Well, two things. Obviously it didn't
level any playing field. That really concerns me, honest to gosh, that someone from the
Department of Revenue says it won't affect ya! I mean, if anyone should be able to count
numbers, it should the people in that group.
Bailey/ One would hope.
Jacoby/ So, it did have a significant effect on a number of areas, and then the response came
back -well, it only affects you guys in college towns. Well (several talking) gives a rat's
ass if it's only a college town (several talking) but it affects Des Moines...
Bailey/ Affects Des Moines to quite a great degree.
Jacoby/ ...wrong again, because it affects the larger cities -Des Moines, uh, specifically, and
other contiguous cities, like Waterloo.
Bailey/ West Des Moines, yeah.
Jacoby/ We're not being recorded, are we? (laughter)
Bailey/ We never record things, Dave.
Jacoby/ I'll stop using the word candy ass and rat's ass and.. .
Bailey/ It's okay. I think that...
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Jacoby/ But...but I was pretty upset by it when Josh brought it up. When.. .
Bailey/ And I know that you all have heard about this. (several talking)
Hayek/ ...KCJJ (several talking)
Bolkcom/ I mean, I think we need to look at what's going on here, I mean, the question of the
policy is should local...should governments tax other governments, all right? And that's
the principle that Revenue was trying to address here. I think that's worthy of some
conversation. Clearly the money that's lost we need to find by either changing it, you
know, taking away what Revenue said, or increasing the hotel/motel tax, but I do think
it's worthy of at least a conversation about whether or not...governments should be
allowed to tax other governments for these stays, I mean, this is basically being paid for
by educational institutions that are non-profit (mumbled). .
Bailey/ Or the State of Iowa, which does (both talking)
Bolkcom/ So, I mean, I think that's...I think it's...how it happened I think it was, you know, it
wasn't well explained to people that were working on (mumbled)
Champion/ Well, and I think in some ways you're right, Joe, but on the other hand, uh, these are
already taxes that institutions who aren't paying any property tax. I mean, you think of
the University Hospitals for instance, uh, how many people they have staying in hotels,
motels with all their conferences, uh, they're not paying any taxes to begin with, and they
are utilizing city services constantly, and in some respects they almost owe it to us, I
think. I mean, L ..I agree with you in philosophy, but in reality, I think it's wrong. Um, it
would really affect a lot of areas. Every town with a convention center, for instance, um,
tremendous amount of effect from that. And I agree with you in philosophy, but in
reality I don't.
Bolkcom/ Well, I mean I think the issue that the Mayor brought up a moment ago about, uh, fee
in lieu of taxes would be a more direct way to do what I think we...I would agree with
you on that (mumbled) Mercy Hospital, you know, the Hospitals, the University, other
non-profits that get fire protection, police protection, public, you know, all...the whole,
public safety sphere.
Bailey/ Well, and infrastructure, as well. I mean, they benefit from infrastructure, which costs
us. Um (both talking)
Bolkcom/ I think we should have more direct conversation about...about that than this, I mean...
Bailey/ Do you see that discussion of fee in lieu of taxes going anywhere though, at the State
level?
Bolkcom/ I think it goes places when it has constituency organized behind it, pushing it, and I
would say at this point the whole revenue diversification set of issues lacks a...an
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organized concerted effort by the stakeholders (coughing, unable to hear) to this point, a
lot of things.. .
Bailey/ You've still got time. Okay.
Bolkcom/ Yeah, whether it's...whether it's local option income tax, whether it's (mumbled)
whatever the words are, um, hotel/motel, franchise -all those, whatever that menu turns
out to be, it's...it needs to be...we need to be, have a plan to (mumbled)
Mascher/ We had a similar discussion with the Fire Department and those EMS folks in terms of
the cities and counties being on the same page, because we often find that they are not in
sync in terms of what they would like to see done, and when they're at odds then we end
up not doing anything.
Bailey/ Well, and...
Mascher/Because we don't want to anger either side, and it just makes it really difficult to move
forward then, so if they could get behind something and, as a unified group, promote
and...
Bailey/ (laughter) You don't want...
Mascher/ ...push that, it would be really helpful.
Bailey/ ...anything hard, do you? Okay.
Mascher/ It's just a suggestion.
Dvorsky/ I don't even think you need...need the cities and counties, but just the cities together, if
you could get the Metro Coalition and the League of Cities, and...and flood effected
cities and whoever...cities...all of'em serve together in sort of one voice. I understand
why the counties don't...as I understand it, each county has one vote. So Page County
has one vote and Johnson has one vote, or Polk has one vote and...and you know, some
county less than 5,000 population has one vote. So I...that really arcane, goofy thing, I
don't see how they could pass anything, but.. .
Bailey/ Well, and as .you know, Ross is the Chair of the Metro Coalition and I think that we will
come...forward with...some unified voice about alternative revenues.
Wilburn/ I think so. I think that the only hold up, really, with the Metro Coalition, um, there was
(mumbled) several options that were presented. I think where there was disagreement,
uh, the one option where, in fact I think that's going to be the subject of an upcoming
meeting, is whether or not, um, local option income tax...
Dvorsky/ But...it's local option. (several talking) It's local option. If a city doesn't want it, they
don't need to do it!
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Wilburn/ I...I understand. That was one thing that I tried to, uh, I tried to push and.. .
Bailey/ Tried!
Wilburn/ ...the division on that, just so that you're aware, is with, uh, some of the border, uh,
cities with neighboring states, you know, Illinois, Nebraska (several talking)
Bailey/ Right.
Bolkcom/ If it doesn't get included in the menu, it will be included in the menu, and there's...
Bailey/ Can we...can we say that on our call, on Friday? If...if it doesn't get included in the
menu, it will get included?
Bolkcom/ ...legislation to do it. I would hope that the cities would like work for it. 'Cause if
they...if the cities start fighting about the menu, I don't...I like this thing and this thing
and this thing but I don't like this thing, therefore I'm not going to support anything.
Every city does that, you will have no organized group...pushing for this new menu of
ideas.
Wilburn/ Right, and L ..uh, you know, Iowa City's in agreement with what your...your
suggestion, Joe, it's just, uh, like I said that was the one point of contention amongst all
the...all the other, uh, options and I thought we were going to get there and then we got
to that, and that's where...(several talking)
Lensing/ ...but that key word option. If you can just make them understand.
Mascher/ Ross, what you might want to remind'em about is the local option sales tax for
schools, and the fact that that was a local option that Sioux City promoted originally, and
it was an option and um (several talking) right, right (several talking).
Wilburn/ That's a great point, in fact, I (several talking)
Bailey/ Okay.
Mascher/ ...that initiated that. (several talking) They need to be reminded about it.
Wilburn/ Yeah, that's very helpful. Thank you.
Bolkcom/ And on the point, I mean, I think Iowa City could pass a local option income tax
that...where we can't pass a local option sales tax or haven't been to this point. I think
that you could actually pass a local option income tax here.
Wilburn/ And that was a point that we had brought up at a meeting, and um, the cities who
weren't' that favorable towards were recognizing that, uh, in a community like Iowa City
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it may be a place where it would pass, so they're willing to at least have us sit down one
more time to try and hash this out.
Bolkcom/ I think the other thing, I mean, that is not well understood is that 100 school districts
have it, and I don't think everybody really has a good understanding how it works. The
sales tax is pretty understandable -you buy something, you pay the tax. You know, it's
kind of, it's not mysterious. Uh, and I think we need to do a better job, myself and
anybody else cares about it, trying to describe how it would work, and there's going to be
some effort by the Iowa Policy Project, to put together a paper not only for, you know,
cities but legislators also. If they're going to vote for something like this, they need far
more understanding of how it's going to operate.
Economic Development Initiatives:
1. Micro Enterprise
Bailey/ Uh-huh. Okay. So, we'll just keep moving along. Um, just going to economic
development initiatives. One of our priorities is see an increased funding for micro-
enterprise development, and I think our intent here is really actually to expand this to say
small businesses. Um, how we use micro-enterprise funds, we typically use Community
Development Block Grant funds from our Economic Development, um, pool, and you
know, Oasis Falafel, Deluxe Bakery (mumbled) Home Ec Workshops, which is two
young women. It's a...it's a really nice initiative, young people in Iowa, that sort of thing,
Gluten Evolution, um, we've done quite a few businesses lately with that micro-
enterprise, that CDBG fund, but one of the things that became clear in the flood, and I
think we've discussed this, is there's a huge gap in Iowa for support for small businesses,
and there needs to be some innovation, if we expect to sort of do the economic gardening
that the State really, really needs, um, so something, and I'm not sure what this could look
like, but it could be a block grant that goes to cities to use at their discretion, through their
economic development committees or however they work that, to really, uh, work with
the small businesses in the 20 to 50 employee range. That would make a huge difference,
or to supplement the kinds of funds that we use for micro-enterprise, um, to supplement
our CDBG funds. Um, you know, we partner...we partnered most recently when
Kleffman Group, with the CEBA grant, and we do that quite frequently, but the
opportunity to have additional funds to incent those kinds of businesses, I mean,
Kleffman Group has its North American headquarters in downtown Iowa City, which is a
nice shining star. It's a German company that does agri-business marketing, some
marketing research. So, anything that can help us grow our own...in our community, and
have that local flavor, anything that the State can do to do that that would be great. So I
don't know what your thoughts are on that or what other Council Members would like to
jump in and say. Matt and Connie, you're on that Committee, as well. Did you have
anything to add?
Bolkcom/ We did create a new micro-enterprise development program this year, $500,000 to
hire some expertise in the department, but mostly focused on trying to help low end,
people that are at the lowest 20% of incomes start businesses. People on (mumbled) and
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people on State assistance, um, and it's working with the CAP agencies and people that
are in touch with people in, you know, in poverty. So, it was a very focused, much more
probably low-income...
Bailey/ Uh-huh. We do, of course, some of that with our CDBG, but probably not that low
income, but that is the focus of that, but increasing those opportunities, I think, is going to
be critical, especially for a place like Iowa City. Bob? Did you have a question?
Dvorsky/ Well, it might be useful to see how far along that's done. That was part of the...the
recapped funding thing that, the bill that Senator (coughing, unable to hear) in the Senate
that...that also put this under the, uh, the community action agencies at the State
government under Mr. Brand...Bill Brand, that some of us used to serve with in the
House. Um, and they, uh, be interesting to see where they're going with that because
the...the credit unions have put together a foundation to raise the money to put more
money into that. They were trying to raise a million dollars to add to this sort of
program, and I don't know how far along they've gotten there, but it really sounded pretty
exciting on putting that in place, and moving that forward, where you could help low and
moderate income people to move forward with small businesses, so it might be useful to
check it out and see where they're at. I haven't talked to Bill Brand in a while on that
either, but...
Correia/ Did that program involve any type of support for micro-enterprise training programs?
That's something that I think when we've gotten correspondence from Tracy
Hightshoe...is a staff person that works with potential, um, business owners is a lack in
Johnson County of trying to find...
Bailey/ We work mostly with the Small Business Development Center at the University, with
their Fast Track program.
Bolkcom/ I think we're going to see a series of five...four or five competitive grants in
(mumbled).
Bailey/ Uh-huh.
Bolkcom/ (mumbled) successful applicants would have to demonstrate that they're working
in...with the existing infrastructure, community development stuff that goes on in a,
maybe couple counties. So, I mean, there's a lot of expertise out there, uh, what we
lack...and...and what the current system lacks is kind of a feeder system of those...those
potential entrepreneurs that happen to be pretty low income, getting connected with the
technical assistance, you know, an IP and being nurtured...
Bailey/ Yeah.
Bolkcom/ ...hire somebody at the State level who would really understand how to do, like Jason
(several talking) and then do a series of competitive grants and get it going. We were
trying to get like a million dollars. We got...Senator Dvorsky got...at the end of the day
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we got $500,000 for this, but um, you know, we're spending $400...$500 million on
Economic Development programs between the State and local government, and not a
single dollar focused on helping people in the lowest 20% of incomes be entrepreneurs
and start businesses, so this $500,000 is a drop, you know, is a beginning.
Bailey/ Right, well, and what Amy said about training, I mean, the gaps of the connection, but
also the ongoing gaps of, I mean, the failure rate of those kinds of businesses is of course
very high and that's just a fact, but mentoring and ongoing support, I think, is something
that we would lack...we lack here, in the State, that would be something.. .
Bolkcom/ Hopefully this new...I mean, Iowa apparently, we used to have some really good
micro-enterprise development (mumbled) away from that and now we're trying to get
back into it, so it might take some time to get it going, but hopefully we'll hire people
with some expertise to help us.
Correial You know, and I guess I haven't looked into this, but in terms of, if we're targeting...if
this money is targeting the lowest 20% of folks that are on FIP or other assistance, and
maybe meeting child care assistance, do you know if childcare assistance will allow
somebody to be starting their own business, and do hours count towards being able to get
childcare, as well as count as work hours towards their FIP requirements? I mean, I think
those are things to...because I think there's lots of barriers for folks that are in that lowest
20% that might be on FIP, that the childcare and the work requirements. Yeah, I don't
know.
2. Expansion of Iowa Earned Income Tax Credit
Bailey/ Yeah. So, somewhat related is our priority of expansion of the Iowa Earned Income Tax
Credit program, and um, Amy, did you want to just speak to this?
Correia/ We talked about this a little bit last year. I know two years ago the State increased the,
um, Earned Income Tax Credit to a refundable credit, 7% of the...of the federal credit,
and I don't know if you've seen the Iowa Fiscal Partnership is, um, recommending a
federal credit, or state credit of up to 30% of the federal credit as (mumbled)
unreasonable expectation next year, but even looking at going from 7 to 12% is going to
help those most, um, at the lowest end could help 170,000 families, and again, the um, I
know many of you know about the free tax program that we've been fostering in Johnson
County with the University of Iowa Tippie College of Business helped 664 households
last year file taxes, you know, some that hadn't filed taxes for previous years, were able to
help do that and some folks have...can get some significant dollars back that are really
important to their pocketbook, but then also stimulate our local economy to
be...$250,000 in tax refunds that came in, um, from households that use free tax service,
so anything to increase that earned income.
Bailey/ Did anybody else have anything to add?
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Bolkcom/ We did pass legislation this last year that required DHS to put out in terms of trying to
scare up some more business, uh, in...in the mailings that they do, uh, to...to people that
they (coughing, unable to hear) so they're in the process of...so we're saying, 'Well, what
do you mail to people now? Can we add earned income tax credit information,' and we
just got some information this week about that. So that's moving forward. I think
the...my judgment on the tax, I mean, I think we're going to be in a really...we haven't
talked about how bad the budget is, so (coughing, unable to hear) that part. I think we're
going to be in a really tough spot and whether we can come up with 20 or $20 million to
improve the earned income tax credit remains to be seen. I think we did 10, was it $10
million...to go to 7%refundability. The other conversation I think that's going to go on,
I don't know if it's going to happen or not, is the...if we move towards some income tax
reform, would be to try and raise the threshold by which people have to file State, and
pay State taxes. There's a whole bunch of people that pay State taxes that have no federal
tax liability in Iowa. So, there're runs being done on both increase in the EITC to like
10%refundability, and trying to have fewer people required to pay, and I don't know that
we can afford both, so maybe, uh, we can try and have fewer people file and pay, but I
think there's a real interest to try and. do more for low income taxpayers. (mumbled) I
think it's unclear whether there's going to be any kind of major tax (mumbled).
Dvorsky/ And there is this initiative by the credit unions, statewide and nationally apparently,
too, to try and get sort of back to their roots, where they were actually working with low
income people and... and doing things, and so they created this foundation where they're
trying to raise a million dollars and get money from elsewhere to put into micro-
enterpriseprograms and other things. So that's something you...I mean, we have a large
credit union here. Might want to talk to them and, you know.. .
Correia/ We're working with them on the free tax help, I mean, a sponsor, but yeah.
Dvorsky/ But this other foundation thing and what they're doing there, because that's...that's,
they're hopeful be able to raise some pretty substantial amounts there to work on these
programs, so I think that's...that's very encouraging, and...
3. More Effective Historic Preservation Tax Credit Programs
Bailey/ Yeah, that's...that's interesting. So, this is another tax credit program, um, more effective
historic preservation tax credits, um, as we understand, tax...historic tax credits are
encumbered pretty far out. There's a limited number of them, and then, um, the cost of
the qualified project is pretty, the requirement is pretty high - 25% for the residential fair
market value, and then 50% for commercial, and we have quite a few possibilities in our
downtown, because it's part of a cultural district, buildings that would qualify for historic
tax credits, but that commercial threshold of 50% of assessed...fair market value is a...is
a pretty high barrier for the rehabilitation costs. So, any kind of consideration of
reducing that, uh, the cost threshold or um, and certainly making more tax credits
available, could make a huge difference in our central business district, because there are
increasing number of property owners downtown; our Economic Development
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Coordinator has been sort of talking this up, an increasing number interested in
potentially using those, and um, but that threshold is pretty high for many of them.
Wright/ The price of those buildings is so much higher than probably most places in the state.
Bailey/ Right.
Wright/ And we ran into the same thing with the residential. You can...it's not tough to buy a
fixer-upper, a big old house for $250,000, $300,000 in Iowa City, but to have...to qualify
for a tax credit I think it's 25% on residential?
Bailey/ IJh-huh, it is. Doesn't count the land, but...
Wright/ It's a big chunk of change, whereas 25% for a project in Clarinda is a much more
accessible threshold.
Bailey/ And we know you face this all the time, but we know that you also need to hear from us
what would make a huge impact here, 'cause you know that historic preservation is so
important to us, so...
Hayek/ And to put it in perspective, the, uh, the State Historic Preservation tax credits are what
got the Englert, uh, out of...out of a deep hole and uh, I was involved in the process of
going after both the state credits and the...and the federal credits, and I can tell you from
experience, actually the state program is far more streamlined and much easier to use,
um, you don't have to, uh, create new for-profit entities to take advantage of the credits.
It's much easier to capitalize the tax credits themselves, and we were able to get, uh, that
process concluded much faster than with the state program, so it is a good program, uh,
it...it's got some high threshold levels, but uh, it...it, the process runs well and we've had
a good experience with the state, when I was on that...with that group.
Bailey/ Well, and the staff at the state, the...part of the good process is the staff at the state can
be very, very helpful and really untangling it and explaining it. So...(several talking)
Bolkcom/ Um, on that point, the Department of Revenue is just doing a report on historic tax
credits to show their effectiveness, and hopefully we'll have that soon.
Bailey/ Oh great!
Bolkcom/ Um, which'll maybe make the case to take the cap off.
Bailey/ Right.
Bolkcom/ I also think it's potentially aflood-effected community...
Bailey/ Yes!
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Bolkcom/ ...initiative, you know, to...(mumbled) demonstrate through the flood that these
credits could be...I know Senator Dotzert's very interested in being involved in
(mumbled)
4. Restore funding for Vision Iowa programs in FY10 and beyond
Bailey/ Ammunition would be good. Good. Um, restore funding for Vision Iowa Program in
FY10 and beyond. I know it's going to be a tight, uh, year. We have an application in,
uh, in the pipeline, I mean, far enough along in the pipeline that this is really affecting us
directly, and that's for the Sand Lake project which is a, um, a former sand and gravel
operation south of town. It's about 188 acres that we are working to turn into a city park,
and will be larger than our City, current City Park. So, um, and as you know, I'm the
Vice Chair of that board so I'll just disclose that, but the board is interested, and we are
interested in seeing those, uh, those funds reaffirmed for the upcoming years, um, and
know that that will be a challenge because it's going to be a tight budget year. So, and to
put it in perspective, um, we have one project that benefitted from community attraction,
tourism, the Englert once again. So we know that these do good things for communities,
and projects have been funded in 97 counties throughout Iowa, so there's...
Dvorsky/ The Shakespeare in the Park too, wasn't that a.. .
Bailey/ I don't think so.
Dvorsky/ I thought it was.
Bailey/ LTh-huh.
Hayek/ I don't know.
Bailey/ I don't swear. (laughter)
Dvorsky/ North Liberty's had like three projects; Coralville's had four or five, I mean, it's...it's
really been used a •lot around here. I thought they got.. .
Bailey/ Dale, do you think...do you remember if that got...(several talking)...yeah, North
Liberty has gotten, I think three projects since I've been on the board. So, it's a good
program. It does great things, and it's a fundamental infrastructure program to cities large
and small across the state, but I think you all know that. So...
Bolkcom/ (mumbled) RECAP program last (mumbled)
Bailey/ Right.
Bolkcom/ ...not all, but a lot of it got (several talking)
Bailey/ All of it. All of it got scooped. (several talking)
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Bolkcom/ ...and there's interest to try and (mumbled) Senator Dotzert again was one of the
people on it. He would like to (mumbled) back, uh, so there might be some movement, at
least to (mumbled) around it and see what we could do.
Bailey/ I think, I mean, in many ways, I mean, Cedar Rapids was also looking at projects as well.
I mean, it is a way also to have an infrastructure impact in the state, I mean, in this year
that so many counties were affected by floods and other natural disasters.
Dvorsky/ I think we need a new Culver administration initiative. I think that's what.. .
Bailey/ Yeah, if you could call it something different. I'm sure the Governor would get onboard.
But, you just let us know what you want us to call it and we'll be there. (laughter) Um,
in regard to tax increment financing, um, we...we believe that we've done a good job, a
careful use of using TIF's in Iowa City. Um, I think only around 4% of our taxable
properties are within TIF districts. This is something that we typically disagree with
counties on the use of TIF, um, and I just want to point out that the only, um, other town
in Johnson County with smaller percentage of taxable land in TIF districts is Shueyville,
so, um, I think we're doing a good job using it. So we would like to have...continue to
have this tool to use. (several talking)
Dvorsky/ Has Shueyville TIF'd anything? (several talking)
Bailey/ I don't know.
Dvorsky/ Well, they're building a new community center, so...I don't know if they (several
talking)
Bailey/ So, but I mean we feel like we've done a good use, made good use of the tool, and have
been very careful with it, and so we would like to see no...I know that you occasionally
get people in there wanting changes in it, restrictions on use and we would like to see no
restrictions.
Bolkcom/ So what does 4%, how much property tax is diverted at 4%?
Bailey/ I don't have the number. Wendy just filed our current, um, she filed the numbers with
the assessor today, so we don't have the current, but I can get that for you when she...
Bolkcom/ Well, I happen, I mean, this was a topic recently at the property tax (mumbled) Iowa
Policy Project in that (mumbled)
Bailey/ Uh-huh.
Bolkcom/ ...fairly serious concerns about TIF, um, among others...TIF is the largest economic
development program in the state. About $180 million is diverted, you know, for a
variety of things, so called economic development (mumbled) not defined in the code
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what it is. So it could be retail, it could be housing, it could be manufacturing jobs, and it
has had the effect of raising property taxes. Not used prudently, you know, the cities'
costs are going up; the counties' costs are going up, and the schools' costs are going up,
and when the money's diverted, you know, for projects -great. They're all great projects.
Bailey/ Not all of them.
Bolkcom/ ...all that have been granted, you're probably going to find, you know, you gotta vote
on 'em and majority vote wins, and it has the effect of not having resources available to
do other things that the cities and counties might want to do. So, prudent use, and...so I
actually think there needs to be some tightening up. There was a bill last session, there
were about 20 TIF's that were grandfathered. They were like old ones. Still had
indebtedness, and there was a bill filed by Senator Stewart to basically sunset those 20 or
so TIF's, and you thought...you would have thought that we were ending the program.
You know, the cities...all the people that love TIF's (mumbled) said, 'Don't do it!' And
we said well, they can pay off whatever debt they have from the TIF's, but did anybody
really think these should go on forever? And the bill died (mumbled). So, I mean, if...I
think there...don't touch it, don't do anything, I hear that. On the other hand, there are
places where it needs to be tightened up. And when cities get together and say we're
going to fight anything, even what I would say is not appropriate use of TIF. I don't
know. Should it go on forever?
Champion/ No, it shouldn't go on forever, and there could be guidelines.
Bolkcom/ We couldn't pass a bill to stop these (several talking) that were created long ago. So,
um, I could have used your help. I mean, I could have...we could have used some help
to say, well, maybe...I mean, Des Moines was, I mean, you'd have to look at the list of
cities to see if you'd agree with that, but I don't think they should go on forever. I don't
think...I think 20 years.
Bailey/ Ours are typically pretty short. Ours typically, I think, are around ten years tops, and
that's a long one for us. And they're typically capped. There's a.. .
Bolkcom/ Twenty years is a (mumbled)
Bailey/ Right.
Champion/ We have a 20-year one too, but we do cap (both talking)
Bailey/ ...before my time. (several talking)
Mascher/ But you wouldn't carry them on either.
Wilburn/ ...negotiated agreement amongst Council, those who had larger concerns. Those
that...not quite as large...
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Bolkcom/ So it's a big deal. It's a lot of money and we talk about an economic development
fund, I mean, maybe you could divert some of your TIF money to that, for small
businesses. I mean.. .
Bailey/ Okay. But, I think our concern is opening it up does open up a can of worms with a wide
array of how people use them and want to be able to use them. I think we have a clear,
um, I think we have a good use locally, and that's what we stand behind, and so we would
prefer not opening that up, um...
Bolkcom/ I don't think it's going to be opened up, because (mumbled)
Bailey/ Right. I mean, I think (several talking) I think as a Council (several talking) I think as a
Council we...we are concerned about abuse of TIF's, but we also do not, I mean, we tend
to, you know, sort of manage the things that we can manage and...and go from there.
Jacoby/ I'd be surprised if that came up again. Maybe they'll find Joe's body first, I don't know
(laughter and several talking) but uh...well, the problem is...the baseline still comes.
There's two things we have to remember about TIF, and you know it as well, that
sometimes we don't do as well. TIF is not rebates, I mean, when some cities, some
entities use a rebate for developers, that's not what it's meant for in my humble opinion.
It's not meant to put money back in developer's pockets. It's meant to use for
infrastructure for the development that you're doing, to increase your tax base. Now, the
county already gets the money that was on that site before...before you did the
developments, so this bull about counties not getting their money is just that. They get
the same amount of money, and the schools get the money, and most cities...I suspect the
City of Iowa City did it. You released your (mumbled) monies, I bet. The schools are
getting the dollars that they do from the increased values to the (mumbled) and then the
same valuation the schools and the counties are getting that. The sunset is a valid
argument. You know, the 20 year, if...I think that Senator Bolkcom's statement, if we
could have a single item sunset only. Don't put any stupid amendments on it. Most
people would almost shake hands and say sure, go ahead, put some kind of sunset on
there, the 20 years, even (mumbled) would say that's okay (laughter) but uh.. .
Marcher/ Dave, but I don't think...I don't think Iowa City's a district that's complaining. It's
Clear Creek that you hear the most complaints from and part of it's cause they're at their
max.
Jacoby/ Well, they...
Marcher/ That's where they run into problems.
Jacoby/ But...but (several talking) in full disclosure for Clear Creek, the town of Tiffin is almost
40% residential TTF.
Marcher/ Oh, add it all up. That's the problem.
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Jacoby/ Well, the...the, but I mean, there has to be an honest discussion. There has to be an
honest discussion on TIF when they're talking about an unnamed mall versus a half a
town and a residential TIF that doesn't produce enough money to pay for its own
services.
Mascher/ But, Dave, you just made the point, it is being abused, and we know that, and we
should do something about that. Joe's right.
Jacoby/ (both talking) I don't know of anyone that's using it at the level in the past, more than ten
years ago, that...that, for the residential TIF. I don't know of any place doing what some
of our towns have done. I mean, that same argument could be, yeah, do we allow people
to build, rebuild houses 100 yards from the river, four feet below the bank. I mean, is it
up to us to tell them to do that or not.
Mascher/ (both talking) low income housing, if you remember. It was for blighted areas, and
that got changed too.
Jacoby/ Well, it is for development (mumbled)
Mascher/ Right, it's changed. That wasn't what it was originally intended to do.
Jacoby/ But, I think it's...you know, I think there's been good uses of it. I know Clear Creek-
Amana has some problems with it, but Clear Creek-Amana also has aone-cent sales tax
that they're using. I mean, I...I don't, not to talk about a certain district, but I think, you
know...they didn't...they didn't, no money was taken from the school district. Not a
penny was taken from the school district.
Wilburn/ If you do take a run at, uh, the longer term (mumbled) if you, uh, could get word to me,
I can try and work with the Metro Coalition to let them know your intent for a pure bill
(several talking)
Bolkcom/ That'd be great, Ross.
Wilburn/ Well, you've probably seen our examples of what we have done to put (mumbled) I'm
sure Michael can (mumbled)
Bolkcom/ You guys have a good handout on this (mumbled)
Bailey/ (several talking) Sounding a little familiar! I thought we were getting a snapshot of what
you (several talking)
Dvorsky/ And I actually don't think this year, since we're trying to come up with alternative
revenue, especially for flood-effected communities, why we would mess around with
TIF. So, I don't think (both talking)
Bailey/ Right, right.
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Bolkcom/ Good time to fix it!
Dvorsky/ Well, yeah, but...
Bolkcom/ I would argue that one of the reasons TIF's been used so much is 'cause cities have not
had other tools.
Bailey/ Right.
Dvorsky/ No! Sure!
Bolkcom/ ...used in ways that maybe, but it was the only thing they had, so...
Dvorsky/ But, you just need to get Bob Josten and talk to him and figure out the best way to run
it and do it correctly. That's what you need to do, but, we haven't done that yet.
5. Funding support for Passenger Rail initiatives:
Bailey/ Okay. Passenger rail - we continue to be supportive of the commuter rail in the corridor.
Um, and want to once again sort of underscore our support for that, and then of course
this extension of Amtrak to Iowa City from the Quad Cities. I understand that the
Department of Transportation is going to ask for some changes in the code to give more
flexibility, um, regarding passenger rail, and additionally, um, they will be coming to the
legislature for $3 million for passenger rail and $3 million for freight rail, which we see
as something that would, in the long run, be very beneficial. This possibility...ofcnurse
we're waiting for Illinois, the possibility of getting this Amtrak line to the Quad Cities,
and then from the Quad Cities to Iowa City and eventually to Des Moines. I mean, it'll
probably be a long time, but it's something that I think has a great deal of interest in Iowa
City, and uh, we have a wonderful depot that is ideally situated, a historic depot, um,
south of town, north of the County Administration Building, that would...would come
back into use for what it was originally intended. So, it's a lot of exciting possibilities
that that would bring to our community. Anybody want to add.. .
(male)/ Can you talk more about the commuter rail, what is...
Bailey/ Commuter rail, it's the CRANDIC line and what we're...we've been working with
Coralville, and um, with the flood, Coralville has been interested in shoring up the...the
rail line, um, that's behind the businesses on Highway 6, and that...from River Landing to
downtown Iowa City is something that we've been looking at for the last couple of years.
We take it up as a, on the federal issue's trip as a priority. You know the study from 2006
that talks about the line from Iowa City to Cedar Rapids, um, potentially the Airport, you
know, it would cost $400 million to put in an extra lane of 380. We could do that project,
the rail project, for $70 million, and that would include upgrading and the rail, and being
able to run at speeds that would be interesting to commuters, rather than the 25 or 15
miles an hour that the...the sort of the, the excursion rail did last summer. So, a year ago.
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So that's what we continue to be interested in, and I think as the State looks at rail
initiatives, that might be a possibility, because they're very aware of our interest.
Anything to add?
Champion/ I'd hope they'd look at rail before they'd look at putting any more lanes on interstates.
It's...seems to me an obsession in Iowa to not let traffic be busy, and so let's add another
lane so it never gets busy. I mean, you realize that Cedar Rapids has more lanes going
through it than Chicago does? And people still talk about putting in another lane on the
interstate for 380. You know, it's amazing to me. I think we ought to go where Texas is,
and they vowed they're not putting another lane on another road. People have to find
their way around. I mean, I think the amount of money put into roads is (mumbled) can't
maintain what we have, why we want to build new!
Bolkcom/ What about other, I mean, I...it's pretty unlikely that we're going to find $70 million
for the short run, or $400 million (mumbled). Are there other strategies (mumbled)
Bailey/ (mumbled)
Bolkcom/ ...in terms of some...some rapid transit vans, buses, um, car pool, you know, ride
share, I mean, there doesn't seem to be any option, I mean, I think maybe Greyhound runs
once a day or, I mean, there's 7,000 cars going from Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, you know,
whatever the number is, and the same coming this way, and (mumbled), and you know,
getting the $70 million and having a train run at 100 miles an hour, which is probably
what it's going to have to go in order to compete with the clock.
Lensing/ Make 380 a toll road!
Bolkcom/ Yeah.
Lombardo/ We're re-examining our...our bus routes and our scheduling and all, and I've asked
Chris to...to also give some consideration - is it possible to run, uh, a bus to and from
Cedar Rapids, kind of an express, limited stops and it would take some working with the,
uh, employers, um, certainly, but it's something we do want to explore. We're just, right
now, talked about it very cursory.
Bolkcom/ Doug Elliott's been interested, ECICOG's been doing some stuff, but I don't know...
Bailey/ Part of it is the...the challenge of how transit is paid for. Of course we have a transit
levy and...and how do you do that with inner-cities. I'm sure it could be worked out, but
I mean, I think we might need some flexibility in the state level to be able to do that, as
well.
Bolkcom/ Sure (both talking)
Bailey/ ...if we came up with a viable plan, I mean, I think it would require. .
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Mascher/ ...28E agreement?
Bailey/ I don't know. I mean...
Bolkcom/ You could do regional transit. We...we need such a law to do like a regional transit
authority (mumbled) place it happens now. I mean, I'm supportive of the rail. I think it's
great, but I just think...
Bailey/ ...talked about a regional transit authority, and getting traction around here seems to be a
challenge.
Bolkcom/ There's going to be need for more cooperation in the future.
Bailey/ That's what I've heard. Carrots or sticks, that's my only question (several talking)
Jacoby/ Among cities or among us? (laughter)
Bailey/ That works well if there are carrots involved. It works less well if there are sticks, I
think, but...
Dvorsky/ Running out of carrots, right?
Jacoby/ Yeah, well, I...I know it's a financial quandary as far as rail, or either way you're going,
uh, to the Quad Cities or to Cedar Rapids. I'm most interested in the one to Cedar
Rapids. I don't know if it's not an opportunity now with the disasters, uh, and I know
we've looked at all the right-of--way and rail spurs and what we can do, but in a perfect
world if there was enough money, I'd like to see us, uh, well, which we've almost already
done. We paved 380 so I don't have to have my alignment done every three days, so
380's getting in a little bit, uh, more better shape and then what could we do with rail - if
we're going to do rail, and talk about it, we need the cities to get onboard, and the
counties, and take a look at doing a package deal, which includes passenger rail and a
trail...between here and Cedar Rapids. If you're going to go through all the trouble of
right-of--way, land acquisition, we might as well do it the right way. So if someone can
be riding the railroad car up to Cedar Rapids and Joe could be on his bike, racing the
train, well, you could beat the train from the excursion, but uh, but I mean, as we get, I
mean, we've got to think big on this one. This is one where if we were to find, if we re-
do the recap monies or other dollars, since both cities are on rivers, uh, we need to think
big, and I think now is the time to start planning for it and see what kind of land
acquisition, what kind ofright-of--way we can get for that.
Bailey/ Well, and...
Jacoby/ ...965 is going to take a hunk of dollars.
Bailey/ Yeah it is! But, CRANDIC line, I mean, Alliant is interested, I mean, we've had talks
with them. I think it would...we need to probably move forward with the memorandum
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of understanding to move this project forward, at least that's what we've heard from the
federal level, so the rail is there. It needs improved, of course, and that would be a lot of
the cost, and then the rolling stock.
Jacoby/ I think you...you hit the right, punched the right key there. If we align ourselves with a
plan that includes land (mumbled) the rails, then let's start tapping, you know, our federal
contingencies.. .
Bailey/ LJh-huh.
Jacoby/ ... as much as we can, saying we want this as a model.
Bailey/ I think they're getting tired of this project, but they'll hear it again.
Jacoby/ ...well, and you know, there's so much going on, if we're going to do it, let's...let's do it
with upgrading the rail, which needs significant upgrading, uh, for passenger. Upgrade
the rail, get the right-of--way, enough for aten-foot concrete trail for bikers and hikers and
people pushing carriages, and that's why people, you know, we could talk about a bus
going from Cedar Rapids to Iowa City (mumbled). People get on it, they won't...and a
lot of times it's, well, what if my daughter's sick and I have to get back. You have all
those contingencies you have to worry about. We need to figure out how to get a group
of riders first, and then do the...what Mary was talking about, the...the agreements with
the entities, but that's what I'd like to see the rail, rail, trail, or lane 380. (laughter) Don't
go to six. The fifth and sixth would be that trail and the rail.
Bailey/ Okay.
Champion/ Really drives me nuts! Almost drives me as nuts as gambling, but I'll just (several
talking)
Bailey/ So we're going to, um, end on, um, a topic that, you know, one of our favorite topics here
in Iowa City, the alcoholic beverages, and um, why...Eleanor, why don't you speak to
this one because I think just talking about a state statute to, instead of doing this at the
local level, a state statute to address price specials, and this is something we've been
working on, and Eleanor has first-hand sort of experience with trying to develop things.
Dilkes/ Not the drinking, but the...(laughter). Um (several talking and laughing) it's just...um,
well, Iowa City in 2001 passed a specials' ordinance, which prohibits things like 2-for-1's
and all you can drink, and out of site sales, more than two drinks per person, which we
subsequently had to change to two containers because of all the monkeying with it
downtown. Um, but the Council has indicated an interest in adding a prohibition on price
specials to that ordinance, and that's what we're in the process of looking at right now.
Um, I think the interest that the Council has in having it done at the state level is just to
kind of level the playing field between um, the different, uh, communities. I think in the
research that I've done it's not unusual at all to see these kinds of, um, restrictions done at
the state level, and not at the local level. There was a bill passed, or bill proposed in the
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97/98 session by...where is that...Kauffinan, Ithink, or no, Thompson, introduced by
Thompson -was referred to the State Government Committee, er, State Government
Committee and it died there it looks like, and it was very similar to the one we have right
now, but it did include a price specials, um, restriction, as well. Um, and that was House
File 364.
(male)/ Does it deal with like happy hour, so...like 2-for-1 would be illegal, that kind of thing?
Dilkes/ Yes.
Lombardo/ We haven't raised it here, but I think, um, was interesting to me to note as we
started...or are starting to look at, uh, alcohol issues that we, uh, as a municipal entity
pass a moratorium on liquor licenses, and so I would, I mean, I think most cities would
advocate for broader local control over issuing, uh, alcohol or...licenses, um, seems it's
hard to deal with an issue while it's proliferating as you speak.
Dvorsky/ All these alcohol issues might be useful to get on...get Lynn Walding onboard, talk to
him and see if it comes from him as a statewide perspective, that might be the best way to
do it, if you can get.. .
Dilkes/ We communicate with him fairly regularly.
Dvorsky/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Okay, and...go ahead, Ross.
Wilburn/ Several of the, uh, Metro Coalition cities, uh, have various concerns related to alcohol,
in particular the ones with schools, you know, but uh, Des Moines, Ames, Dubuque, us,
Quad Cities, um, so if anything, uh, anything that, uh, could get some momentum I would
think -something like, you know, the statute to restrict price specials, might get some
pretty good support if they knew that might be a direction given some other.. .
Dilkes/ I know Dubuque has a specials' ordinance as well, and would be interested in seeing it
done at the state level.
Bailey/ So I'm just...I want to be aware of the time. Before, um, those are our legislative
priorities, but I also wanted to update you on what we heard from Governor Culver's
office and Department of Economic Development. You all got a copy of the letter,
expressing some of our concerns with, um, flood recovery issues, and um, there was a
conference call in Economic Development last Wednesday, and um, they have addressed
some of the issues that we brought up. There's going to be a conference call on
Wednesday to clarify some things as well, so I'll continue to let you know how things are
going. Um, they've capped their program at $24,999 for rehab costs, and $37,500 with
rehab costs plus lead costs. So this falls in line with the federal lead regulations. So this
helps, um, it does allow...it's a step in the right direction I guess is what we'd say. Um,
and, but I did talk to staff today and there's still concerns about the duplication of benefits
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process and checking, it continues to be very time consuming, which is a challenge, and
fundamentally, staff said that they haven't really approved anyone for the funding, so
things are moving slower than was...than intended, and um, so I'll let you know more of
the details after I talk with staff, after than conference call, 'cause there's still some
questions that they're looking into, to follow up. And so, um, we'll continue to cc you on
any correspondence.
Mascher/ Some changes were made.
Bailey/ Definitely steps in the right direction. This is...this is, we're moving in the direction that
we need to go to get people the help that they need, and be able to do rehab without the
kind of, um, onerous requirements that...that they were requiring. It's looking more like
the IFA requirements than it previously did.
Mascher/ Regenia, was it a misunderstanding with state officials or were they being told to...to
do it a particular way? Or was it somebody who just got...can you be honest about it?
Bailey/ I'm not...I think staff would have a better sense of exactly what was happening. Um, I'm
not absolutely sure. I have my ideas, but...
Mascher/ Sure.
Bolkcom/ I think they were different interpretations.
Bailey/ I think that that's probably what staff would say.
Jacoby/ These were Jumpstart regulations (mumbled)
Bailey/ With the CDBG. (several talking)
Dilkes/ It's what they called the federal Jumpstart.
Bailey/ Federal Jumpstart.
Dvorsky/ Jumpstart is strictly a state, and they...(several talking)...so the interpretation was
between federal CDBG...
Bailey/ It was a difference in HUD, my understanding, HUD...um, HUD interpretations and
Department of Economic Development, the interpretations were different. As an
entitlement city, our staff is pretty accustomed to the high regulations, and...and, but
Department of Economic Development was really saying different things, and the rehab
was requiring a lot more than technically...yes.
Bolkcom/ They were able to waive the requirement, the lead cleanup requirement.. .
Bailey/ Yes.
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Bolkcom/ ...before a problem (mumbled) initial grants were for, what (mumbled)
Bailey/ Sixty was the count.
Bolkcom/ I'm just saying, if we're going to give you $60,000, you've got to have (several talking)
so that the main changes...I think there's still issues out there, but...
Bailey/ It's hard when you try to do a program that fits small and large cities, and we understand
that, but it's been a challenging process. So, but we'll...we certainly appreciate all,
everything you've done...
Dvorsky/ So these were interpretations of HUD rules, not DED, I mean...well, you might have
had the wrong people here then at the last meeting, or one of'em anyway. (several
talking) No, no, I know, but I mean, at the state level, they may have had the wrong
person here that deals with those things, that their expert wasn't here.
Bailey/ Um, I don't know.
Dvorsky/ So that might have, they need to talk to him.
Dilkes/ I think this, my sense is that they were not unreasonable interpretations.
Dvorsky/ Oh, no, I don't think they were, but the guy who actually knows about HUD rules
wasn't here at the meeting and maybe that would have been helpful, had you know.. .
Bolkcom/ I think they knew what the issues were, the people that, I don't know (mumbled)
Dvorsky/ ...he knows it better than those guys, so anyway, one of the things I think it would be
useful if you're having anything that slows down the process of getting the Jumpstart
money out the door, call the Governor's office.
Bailey/ Okay. We will.
Dvorsky/ I mean, seriously, that's...that's abig priority of theirs and they want to hear every time
anything like that happens, and that will bring you movement.
Bailey/ Okay. Thank you. Thanks again for being here, and thanks again for everything that
you've been doing with the flood and well, everything else. We appreciate it. Anything
else that we should add?
Hayek/ Are we going to get any, um, any new information on...on the state of the state, the state
of the state's finances in the next month or two? We're going to be getting into our
budget here shortly. (several talking) Okay. (several talking) Okay. Stay tuned then,
huh?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the December 1, 2008, City Council of Iowa any
Meeting with Area Legislators.
December 1, 2008 City Council Meeting With Legislators Page 24
Bailey/ (several talking)
Hayek/ I just want to know how much "no money" there is. (laughter)
Bailey/ How big the hole is.
Dvorsky/ I'll give you the threshold - $7.0 billion and (laughter)
Bailey/ Okay, well, thank you so much for your time (several talking) we appreciate it. We'll
take about seven minutes. Okay.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the December 1, 2008, City Council of Iowa City
Meeting with Area Legislators.