HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-08-17 Transcription Page I
Council Present: Bergus, Mims, Salih, Teague, Taylor,Thomas, Weiner
Staff Present: Fruehling, Goers, Havel, Liston, Knoche, Hightshoe (Acting CM),
Bowers, Nagle-Gamm, Bockenstedt
Others Present: Van Heukelom, Miglin(UISG);Traore, Dillard, Johnson, Gathua, Harris
(TRC Commissioners)
Council discussion on City use of the Johnson County MRAP(continued from 7/27/21):
Teague: All right, we're going to go ahead and get started with our work session for the City of
Iowa City on August 17, 2021. So welcome, everyone...who's with us in person. We do
know that we have some of our social media sites working and other sites that aren't
working. It'll be redirected to ones that are working. Hopefully we'll get that all
solidified before, urn, definitely the formal meeting. We're going to start out,urn, with
Item#2, since we're waiting for one more TRC commissioner, so that we'll have a
quorum. We're going to start with item#2, which is Council discussion on City use of
Johnson County MRAP and this is a continuation of our conversation from July 27, 2021.
I know that our Chief of Police is here, Chief Liston, so I'll invite you up now!
Liston:Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. Dustin Liston, Chief of Police. Uh,the only update
I have is that there hasn't been really any movement with the County so far.
assuming that is what we're kind of waiting for to see what direction they were going. I
believe they have a work session later this week, and I expect maybe some...they'll be
making some decisions, which direction they're going, and I think that may help inform
you all as to which direction you want to go with that. So I...I think, Mayor, you may
have had some meetings with people, so you're probably more aware of it than I am, but
uh, I...I'm available to answer any questions, but unfortunately I don't have much more
information than that right now, but if you want to ask specific questions about the
vehicle or anything like that, I'm more than available.
Teague: Okay. Does anyone have questions for Chief Liston? I do have an update. But...any
questions for the Chief? Okay.
(male): Can we ask questions from here?
Teague: Um, actually it's just (both talking) yep. Yep. All right, um, the only...if there is no
questions I do have an update. Today I did see, um, the BearCat, Cedar Rapids' BearCat,
and uh, the County, um, is considering, uh, that, and I think that's going to be coming up
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in their discussion. Um...I do believe that in appearance (laughs) it is definitely very
different than, uh, the MRAP, and so...I anticipate by the end of this month that we will
receive something just from the information that I gathered from, uh, the Sheriff, and so I
think it would probably be in our best interest to delay this conversation until our next
work session, if that is...okay with Council. The one thing that we did have, um, unless
there's a change in positions on the use of the MRAP, um, that will stay in place. We
gave our...Chief...um...permission to use it in extreme situations, unless someone is
changing their position. That will remain in place. Okay. All right! While we're still
waiting on one more conunissioner to have a quorum, we'll go ahead and do clarification
of agenda items.
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Teague: We do have quite a few packets to go through. And if there's no clarification of agenda
items, we'll start with packet July 8, 2021.
Information Packet Discussion (July 8,July 15,July 22,July 29,August 5,August 12):
Teague: I guess I wanted to make mention that the, uh, radon in rentals are in effect now. We had
yet a delay. Last year they were supposed to be July 1 and so, urn, as you see, the Iowa
City is the first in the state to require radon testing and mitigation in rental homes, which
is, um, a pretty good article to read about the benefits of having that requirement. So, we
have that underway now! Moving on to...July 156.
Thomas: Um, on July 15...on the July 15, uh, packet, uh,just a follow up on the fireworks
(mumbled) had that discussion. At the end of that discussion I asked that, um, Coralville
provide their, um, response to the fireworks, uh, in their city, in terms of calls that they
responded to and citations and so forth. So I...I just wanted to mention that. I don't
know if staff has received it, but...thought I would just raise it again.
Teague: So we'll write that down for the City Manager's office to follow up on that request,
please and thank you! Any other item from July 15th? July 22". Hearing none...July
29th.
Taylor: Urn, Item...IP2, about the bow hunt program. I think we'll probably need to visit that
pretty soon and...and I personally am not in favor of us opening it up to parks and
cemeteries. I don't know what my fellow Councilors feel about that.
Weiner: Urn, yeah I agree with you. I think we're all gonna have to speak a little bit more loudly
or move the mics closer to us, because, um, because when people mask, it's a little bit
harder to hear. Um, I...I agree, Councilor Taylor.
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Teague: So on this item...I mean you can discuss it now. It's...it's an item on the info packet, so
if you want to discuss what your thoughts are.
Taylor: I had just heard from members of the public, and then just my own personal feelings that
I think, uh, people feel safe in cemeteries and parks, and if we have even portions of it
open up to the bow hunting, uh, that safety factor would be gone.
Teague: I just know that this has been an item on the agenda for...uh, since 2018 (laughs) and we
really didn't want to do the bow hunting, um, but...we were forced to come up with a,
urn, there was a word that they wanted, um, changed (laughs) but a real, uh, a clear plan
of what we were going to do and bow hunting was one that was required. If we're
talking about switching up where it's taking place, um, it's either neighborhoods or parks.
At least from my...perspective, and so...what I recall is that the City Council had great
discussion here and with the public. Um...and...and I think that...you know, we did the
best with what we could do to try to figure out how do we do it. Urn, so I...and I've been
hearing from people as well, and I do...I don't want to do it (laughs) but, um, I was in
opposition, as people may recall to the bow hunting, and maybe we go there first and talk
to, uh, the powers that be. But at this point, um, I feel like we have to...it was
meaningful, a meaningful hunt. So I think that we have to move forward with the plans.
I feel like we have done the due diligence in bringing up the community in the
conversation.
Bergus:And maybe just to clarify what exactly was in the packet. There was a memo from staff
regarding the bow hunt as it was last year compared to the present year, and noting that
the DNR had recommended we consider expanding the bow hunt, which was only
allowed on, um, private property of a certain size with a certain distance from, uh,
residential structures and that kind of thing, and staff is not recommending that we
expand to parks and cemeteries, and I agree with that recommendation. I do not think
that we should.
Weiner: I mean the memo is als...in addition the...the DNR recommended that the application
period open earlier, urn, and...and that essentially that there be a...a much more
substantial window for people to sign up for it. But...(mumbled) was...was not on the
Council when this went through, but my understanding is that we had the one year of
sharpshooting and then we have to deal with four years of bow hunting and the challenge
that we face is the deer population is...is growing and is not controlled at this point.
Mims: I think staff has done the best they can do with this, given in general the Council did not
want to have bow hunting. Um, but we really felt strongly we needed to do something to
get control, urn, so we approved the sharpshooting and knew then that we had to do the
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four years of bow hunting, but I think, yeah, it's important to clarify that they are not
recommending the hunting in public parks or cemeteries.
Teague:Any other comments on that?
Salih: I also agree that is not good idea for the park and the cemetery.
Teague: Okay. August 5th info packet.
Thomas: Included in August 5th was the, um...memo from the Assistant City Manager on the curb
ramp snow removal. And, uh, I want to thank Rachel for putting that together. It was a
very comprehensive analysis of what other, urn, cities in the Midwest, the upper Midwest,
are doing regarding snow removal. Uh, it also...we also had a finding of, from the City
Attorney, that, um, in fact, uh, if natural snow falls should occur in the curb ramp area,
that could be assigned the responsibility of the adjacent property owner. So I think that's
helpful. It sort of...in my mind makes it very clear what the issue is before us, and that is
the unnatural snow fall that's, uh, generated by our snow plowing operations. And, uh,
Mayor, I don't know how much you want to get into this, but my position—at least at this
point—uh, and I think, you know, this is something that may require, um,
incrementalism,perhaps, uh, might be the word. Uh...that, uh...these....my thoughts here
are based on my own observations and discussions that I've had, particularly in the
central neighborhoods, uh, is that,uh, the curb ramps in what I would call the walkable
neighborhoods, uh, should be cleared of snow by the City. Um, the...this is the area
where you get the most foot traffic. It's really important public infrastructure. You know,
the pedestrian networks are heavily used in the walkable neighborhoods, and it's also the
most densely populated areas, or they tend to be, so they're widely used. Urn... regarding
the...the curb ramps in what I would call the more auto-dependent areas. I don't have
much observation on that, so I really can't say personally to what extent, um, it should be
applied in those areas where the use of the sidewalks may be at a lower level than other
parts of Iowa City. Uh, I thought there were some interesting strategies that are used in
terms of prioritizing, uh, in perhaps say the auto-oriented areas, if they're priority streets,
particular arterials, or safe routes to school, whatever...whatever the case may be, urn,
where priority is given, but I...I can't say to what degree, urn, the...there is that need
to...to clear the curb ramps in the more auto-oriented areas of Iowa City. Um, I...I think
in principle it's a good idea, urn, but I understand that there is a cost associated with it.
So at that point...at this point, that's...that's my take on that. Urn, the partnerships and
crowd sourcing options discussion I thought were interesting and...and worthwhile
pursuing. Um, however, I do think in...in areas such as the center of town, we should rely
on more reliable source of getting the work done, and then the last point I would make
would be that, urn, the sidewalk snow removal and the walkable neighborhoods, uh, and
again, in my experience and observation, needs to be better enforced. So, you know,
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right now the...the, uh, practice is more a complaint-driven process. I think we may want
to consider, uh, a proactive approach by staff, because as was noted in the memo, if...if
we clear the ramps but the sidewalks are not clear, um, the system breaks down. So those
are my thoughts. As I said, I do think, um, you know, many people who live in the core
neighborhoods really need those curb ramps. Uh, many people have chosen to live in the
central neighborhoods because of its walkability, and um...the...the obstructions created
by the curb ramps are...are a significant impediment, uh, during the winter months. Um,
my last comment would be, the memo did not cover the...the potential for, at least in my
reading of, uh, making changes to the snow plowing operations so that it may lessen the
need for curb ramp snow removal, uh, simply by trying to plow in such a way that we
don't leave that residual snow, uh, in front of the curb ramps. But, um, you know, to the
degree we can...we can approach it that way, I think that would certainly be beneficial as
well.
Taylor: I agree with Councilor Thomas on this and I appreciated in the article...or the memo that
we got the...distinguishing between natural versus non-natural accumulations, and I think
what we're really concerned about are those non-natural accumulations, which is the
snow plow, when the snow plow goes through, and having had to experience having to
reshovel my driveway after the snow plow comes through, it's generally a heavier and
even icier accumulation, and I think, uh, that poses a burden on the adjacent property
owners that then would again have to go and shovel that area, and I think, uh, we need to
maybe visit this again from a budget standpoint and see what maybe, uh, there were
several options noted in there, as far as college students, high school students, uh, maybe
even some private companies, that would certainly do it for a lot less than the private
companies we hired to...to clear the walks that aren't cleared. So, I think we do need to
look at that.
Teague: I guess,um...if we want to have further conversation on this we would need at least
three people to kind of(mumbled) further conversation and we can put it on a...another
agenda, if...cause I know that you want some more information, uh,just about, uh, other
ways the plow on the curb, which I think we can get that information, um...we can ask
City Manager office to give you that information, and then, um...if we want to have this
further conversation, we can certainly do it now or we can bring it back at a different
time.
Weiner: Maybe...maybe we could get the additional information and then if that doesn't...then at
that point I'm willing to join.
Teague: Okay. So we'll just get it in a memo from the City Manager office. All right! Anything
else from July 29th? We have two more info packets to go and then we're going to go
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over to our TRC Commissioners, so thanks for being here and we'll be right with you in
just a little bit!
Thomas: I think we're on August 5th
Teague: All right, we'll go to August 5`h! Oh, we were on August 5th. I didn't make my little
check mark! We have one more! And that is August 121h.
Bergus: Also on August 5`h, Mayor, we had the recommendation...the analysis of certain
recommendations from the Community Police Review Board, um...that our City Attorney
had provided. There were six of their recommendations that required further, um,
analysis to determine if they were legally possible for the City to pursue before we
would, um, be able to talk about whether we would adopt them or not, and so from that
memo I think five of the six require legislative changes, uh, at the state level, and then I
didn't know, um, if staff might know did this memo also go back to the CPRB for their
discussion or what would be...kind of the...the next step on these recommendations?
Goers: I would have to back and look to see, uh, whether it was sent directly to the CPRB or not,
um...(talking in background)
Fruehling: (talking in background) Yeah, it'll be in their August...I know they had an early
August meeting...their September meeting packet.
Bergus: Okay. I saw in...I think it might have been the draft minutes from the most recent
meeting. There was some discussion about the lawyer, social worker issue, but I...I
wasn't clear if that was prior to the analysis or not, so...
Fruehling: I think it was.
Bergus: Okay. And that was the only issue that I think we could even entertain at this point. So I
guess I would just ask that we bring that back after the, uh, CPRB is able to look at the
analysis, if others agree.
Teague: Yep. So I think we won't get their minutes until October.
Fruehling: Uh, depending on how quickly that we can get the draft done (laughs) you would
possibly have draft minutes.
Teague: Okay.
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Fruehling: (both talking) they don't meet...should be September 14`h, I think. So yeah, when...at
the earliest case scenario, your second meeting in September.
Teague: Okay. So I think that's a great idea, to put it back on the...put it back in the packet.
Anything else from August...5th? Moving to our last info packet,August 12t. I think
many of these are in our work session, so...today. If nothing else, then we will...have our
joint meeting with the TRC Commissioners.
Joint meeting with the Ad Hoc Truth and Reconciliation Commission—TRC Preliminary
Budget:
Teague: Welcome, Commissioners. And...(talking in background) Sure. Thank you (talking in
background) Thanks for the reminder. All right! Um...I think what we'll do is just so
that, um...we can introduce our Commissioners. If you can just go around and just state
your name. (introductions are made by the TRC Members) All right, welcome to all of
you, and then for the, uh, for your sake, I will have our Councilors introduce ourselves.
(introductions are made by the City Council Members) All right, so welcome, uh,TRC
Commissioners, and um, I know that there's been some conversation on your end since
our last July 27`h meeting, uh, where we considered your budget, urn, and so this is an
opportunity for the Commission to speak to the Council, um, on your budget proposal,
and for the Council to also speak to you all, and hopefully, urn, potentially give some
directions or give some clarity of their thoughts. Urn, and so now it's just an opportunity
for you Commissioners to just speak to the Council.
Traore: Urn, I'd like to start by just asking, uh, if we could get concrete guidelines from you
guys, or at least your thoughts, on what you are looking for in a budget, or what exactly
that you felt needed to be, uh, better clarified in the last proposal.
Teague: I guess I'll jump right in there. (laughs) Um, one, I want to thank you all for submitting
a budget to the Council. I know that there was a lot of thought that went into, you know,
the budget consideration. Um, when I look at the budget, I think there's a few things that
come to mind. One of the things is...um...and...and I'm actually going to the budget now
so that I can potentially cite some things specifically. Sorry, have to (laughs) got a lot of
things open here. Um, for me I think the, you know, some of the things in the budget as
far as the expenses, I...on one level I think there's some overlap and maybe there's some
explanation that you all can give, uh, for some of these items, and um...(mumbled) make
that bigger. And the other thing is, I know that our Council, now some of you probably
didn't pay atten...were not maybe involved when the resolution was written.
And...because there was specific conversation and language about adding, um, audio-
visual of 30...I think it was 25,000 or$30,000, and this...um...you know, the...the Council
said no, uh, to that amount...to that amount of money, and we stated that...we would have
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the TRC use our City audio-visual, and then if there was something special that you all
needed, that you would, you know, present that to Council for consideration. So that's
one thing about the budget, and then...there's a...maybe I didn't understand, urn, where
there's transportation for participants, urn, there's two areas. One is...you know,
where...when I look at August it says $500 and then it says 1,000. So...um, maybe that
can be clarified. Um...the facilitator, I do understand that the (mumbled) the facilitator
you put out an RFP and that came back higher than expected, and so certainly this was
before you submitted this and, um, we can have that discussion. Ur...when it comes
down to...the...the payback, um, I think...I could appreciate you all making that request,
um, and I do...I've talked to several of you individually, and I heard you. I want you to
know that I heard you. Urn, but I...I do believe that...um, compensation for the TRC, urn,
is not appropriate. Urn, and...I...I'm not supportive of that request. I do know that things
in the budget, urn, on one level I feel that you need a facilitator so that you all can really
plan what the ultimate plan is, and then, you know, maybe create some additional budget
items or revise this one and present to Council, but again, I think this is an opportunity
for you all to speak to us and, you know, give us some of your thoughts and rationals, urn,
behind your budget.
Traore: Urn, first and foremost on that point of the City audio-visual. Actually I did meet with
Vice Chair Ali and I sent this on to our staff person, uh, Stefanie Bowers. So...and also to
media, as usual, so I know that they wanted the copy, but anyways, um, when it comes to
the advertising and outreach, we'd actually cut that item down to, uh, $3,000 cause it
seemed at the facilitator group (mumbled) RFP that they would be taking care of the bulk
of that; however, we wanted to allocate$3,000 to that,just in case there were any special
circumstances that they could not cover or any unforeseen circumstances, and also just
due to the fact that we do still need to interview them to formally approve them. They
have only received a score high enough to be interviewed before they're considered.
Next, um, when it comes down to the videographer, we did cut that amount down to
$10,000. Um, we did receive a proposal from an interested member of the City of Iowa
City and he would like to be a part of the recording; urn, however, we have found that in
many cases, in city, state, national government that many individuals are very distrusting
of members of the government. So we are cognizant of the fact that there will be
individuals that will not want to speak to us or want to do video in a setting where they
are speaking to a government official. So that is why we do have that in the budget.
When it comes to the transportation for necessary participants for public meetings or
hearings, there may be individuals that have, uh, that have experienced some of these
wrongs that may not live in the immediate area. So we do believe that that needs to
remain in the budget so that we can have them attend a meeting if needed in public and
not put that unnecessary burden on them,because if this is to be a situation where they
have something substantial to include, we would not want to put an unnecessary burden
on them. Next, when it comes down to the experts and training, um, that is something
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that we had essentially cut out—this is myself and the Vice Chair—and (mumbled) that
instead more so to the facilitator's experts, uh,just included that as one line item, because
in that RFP it was very well laid out in terms of the expertise that they would provide.
They included line items on transportation, line items as well on community organizing,
and they also put out a concrete plan on how they would like to do each phase of the
project. We just have a few questions for them, in terms of will any of the phases overlap
or, urn, or exactly when they would suspect to finish the final recommendations. As the
timeline, as it had been written out, it was a little unclear, so if none of the phases
overlapped, then the Commission would take longer than the end of 2022. So that's just
something that, uh, very weary of and would like to ask them. However, their budget
proposal was just under$198,000 and, um, that is something that went far over what we
had expected. We had originally wanted to allocate over the entire commission, uh,
positions for a strategic project manager, facilitator expert, and also someone else to
handle more of the clerical duties, but it seems that they are wanting to do all three of
those things and one thing that I did like as well is that Eduardo Gonzales from, um,
George Mason University who has been, uh, very good friend to the TRC, since the very
beginning, and has said, urn, many things in the media as well in support of not only a
stipend for the Commissioners, but as well has lots of experience with TRCs worldwide.
Additionally Dr. Larry Schuller...or Sculler I believe has said, um, so helping with the
Elgin Community Police Task Force, as I understand it. So oddly enough, I do know two
of the individuals on that, um, task force or involved in it, so I did ask them a little bit
about him and about their task force and how it had been going, and also just weary of
the fact that when it comes to that task force going on in Elgin, that there have been some
situations already where their police department is actively pushing back against the task
force and trying to derail it from even starting this year. So one thing I am personally
weary of is that...this could be a situation where we are bringing in facilitators or experts
from outside of the community that are not direct stakeholders within the community and
my worry is that they will not have as much of a, um...as much of a personal stake in how
things go after this. So...for us, we would just like to make sure that there are some
checks and balances within the agreement, to ensure that when it comes to final
recommendations, when it comes to processes that we do truly have a voice as a
commission, so that's one reason that we do want to make sure we speak to them, but
additionally if that needs to be the case, that is once again more work that the
Commissioners will be taking on and I do know that you have asked for us to consider
more staff, but I would like to ask again, um, if there has been any movement on bringing
in any of that staff, because I have not heard of any of that yet. Additionally, when would
that staff become available, how many hours would they be expected to put in, what
exactly would they be expected to do, um, who are they reporting to, are they directly
reporting to us or are they directly reporting to Stefanie, are they directly reporting to
you. Next, um, would also just like to know, in terms of the stipends and you know, the
thoughts on why these things shouldn't be included. Is it the concrete amount or just the
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fact that it exists whatsoever? Because as you see, there are currently five Members of
the nine sitting here today, and...I'd like for you to ask yourselves why that may be. So
some of these Commissioners, as well, you know, have jobs. I still myself have work to
do tonight after this. Um...and some have kids as well. So for them to leave those kids,
they would have had to pay a babysitter. So that's money out of their pockets to once
again come to this meeting that you have called. Urn, additionally when it comes to the
fact that some have to take time off of work or, urn, an establishment that they themselves
own. That is, once again, money out of their pocket and more time that they cannot
spend at....at their own establishment. Additionally, when it comes to transportation, this
is something that I did hear was, um, an aspect that could be, uh, done through the City
budgets, bu I would just like to know if there's been any more movement on that. And,
next I would just like to talk about the subcommittee budgets. Uh, so one thing that we
had changed...or a few things we had changed in there was, um, the line on
collab...collaborators. We had just changed that to just say collab... collaborators and
(mumbled) from groups within the Iowa City community, such as nonprofits and youth
groups,just to ensure that we had more input in the process from people that actually do
live here. So looking at$4,000 for each of the subcommittees,just to ensure that these
nonprofits and groups, when they're coming to do work with the TRC and alongside the
TRC they do receive some monetary support, as that is extra time that their staff and
members would have to be putting in. Next, um, materials (both talking)
Teague: Could I interrupt for just one second? Sorry about that! So there is a new budget that
you're referring to...
Traore: Uh,just talking about current proposals, this is not something the TRC itself has voted
on, but this is within the line items that we had originally included before.
Teague: Okay. Urn, but prior to what you're talking about now, a lot of the line items changed.
Is that correct? Do you have a copy of that or did we...
Traore:Yes, so I have sent this to Stef...I can email this to you right now as well, to the City of
Iowa City email, if you'd like.
Teague: I know that we...Kellie has it. We need to make sure that the....that all Council has a
copy of what...the budget, the revised budget is.
Traore: Uh huh!
Teague:And unfortunately(laughs) the public hasn't seen it either.
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Traore: Yes, urn, and with that as well I did see that the item on the budget for the full Council
meeting tonight, I did see that. So another reason I kind of waited on sending that was I
did not believe that it would be responsible to have that vote tonight after this, because I
do not see us coming to a concrete agreement in this time frame, as there is much more to
discuss and much more we need in terms of clarity, especially with the RFP process
ongoing.
Teague: Okay. I...I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something, as far as like the
revised budget, um, I was certainly trying to take some notes as you were mentioning
them and now the subcommittee, um, that wasn't included in the revised budget that you
mentioned?
Traore: Um, the subcommittee budget, that was in the original budget as well.
Teague: Okay (both talking)
Traore: ...terms of the operational budgets for the subcommittees. Just speaking on the amounts
for the sub line items...for the subcommittees, and how those have been changed.
Teague:All right, now that makes sense, um, when I was talking about there being double.
Traore: Oh, okay.
Teague: So now I see. Thank you.
Traore: Yes. So,uh, did receive some good advice from some members of the community as
well on, uh, truly trying to leverage, uh, the connections we do have within the
community and the other commissions and groups, so,uh, we'll be doing more of that,
for one, but for two, did...we do know that nonprofits and youth groups do have their own
budgets, do have their own staff, but want to make sure that they're also supported. So in
terms of the extra time that they may be asked to put in, did want to allocate $4,000 to
each of the subcommittees so that when they are reaching out to these groups, if they
want to be long-term collaborators throughout the process that there is, um, some
payment for the actual work that they're doing, cause do not believe anyone doing this
work should be doing it for free. Next, um, materials and miscellaneous, if there are any
items that cannot be covered within what the City is providing, do want to make sure that
money is set aside just in case that needs to be asked for. Uh, transportation for necessary
participants, if there are any subcommittee meetings in which we need the expertise or
we need information from a member that is not directly in Iowa City, then we want to
make sure that they are, um, that that is accounted for. So that is why there are two
transportation line items within the budget. So, uh, the note, as well, in that original
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version is once again that these values were totaled, multiplied by 5, so as to cover the
perceived operational needs of each subcommittee. So once again the perceived
operational needs. And that total now comes down to $37,500. So, um, we recommend
that any...so this had been written in the original version, but just want to reiterate this
again. So had recommended that any funds in this budget that remain unspent should be
repurposed for our future budget needs. So we are aware of the fact that we do not know
every sing...every single dollar how that will all be spent, but want to remind the public,
and yourselves once again as well, that that's the case for essentially anything that
happens in government. Um, there are...essentially every single year a city or a
government entity will either go above or below what they put into a budget. So there are
many times where they may need to ask for more money, you know, looking at bonds or
looking at emergency budgets, things such as that. So I think the criticism is, well in
terms of that we do not even know how we're going to spend all this money, is unfair as
well, because when we look at things such as the police department, every single year the
budgets go up and the public will ask why, but it goes up anyways, and we are once again
looking at spending more money on something like a BearCat, and you know, there are
many questions on things such as that and with the police department and the
restructuring being something that the TRC was also created to be charged with looking
at, that's something else as well that we feel is not only a bit unfair, but also a bit odd,
um, that we are not directly included in that discussion. We have come to public
meetings on that topic, but it is just something that I personally feel that the police
department, or some members of the police department, should be willing to come to
TRC meetings and maybe speak on something such as this. So I would like to ask for
them to do so, cause would really like some more clarity on why exactly this BearCat
vehicle is needed. Um, and additionally if they have plans to get more of them, and also
if there are rules of engagement for it and what is to occur if these rul...if these rules of
engagement are broken, as these are many things that we do not get clarity on, even
though we routinely ask and we come to the public meetings to ask. So finally focusing
back on the stipend amounts. So...familiar to negotiation and also the way these things in
government work of, um,just watched it as well in the infrastructure bill, of how you had
two opposing parties, essentially asking for far different amounts and one asked for a
very high amount, one asked for a much lower amount, and eventually they came down
and met at a certain value. So...I will be completely honest, at no time did I ever expect
you to agree to a full $1,000 stipend, but that does not mean that I do not feel that a
stipend should not be given. I still do wholeheartedly believe that a stipend should be a
part of the work on this commission. It is clear that it can be lower, and it should be
lower, as well, if we do bring in the facilitator on this current RFP, but in no way do I
believe that one should not exist, because once again...there are Commissioners that do
have children, there are Commissioners that do have other things to do outside of these
meetings and this is the first of the second meeting that we will be having this week,
because we do also have our public meeting this week. So we will once again be
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downtown for that. And when it also comes to health risks that some Commissioners
may have to put themselves through. As you may notice, once again, not all
Commissioners are here, for some of the reasons as well are because of the coronavirus
still going around, and they are weary of the fact that they have kids or the fact that they
have family members within their households that they want to make sure are protected,
or people in other groups that they mingle with, that the want to make sure aren't
compromised by the fact that they are going out in public for this. So I think it is not
only wrong, but irresponsible to think that we should be putting ourselves in harm's way,
putting our family members and friends in harm's way to continue coming out in public,
and to be looking to have public events or to look to have public engagement, and be
doing it all for free, and also to give you recommendations on what you should do, based
on all of the past histories and traumas and issues, and how many decades or centuries, in
the country, state that boil down to the city level, and for all of that to come into
recommendations for you, on what you should do, so that it is not something that you
have to do as part of your jobs, and to once again, do all of that for free, and to pay
someone else, from outside of the community, that may not have as much care, or as
much attention, to the situation as we do. With that, I yield.
Teague: I don't want to take all the time, but I...I did want to respond to a few things. So the
198,000 that is for the facilitator, I still think that that remains to be seen, uh, what he'll
offer to the Commission, uh, and so certainly I need to wait for that. Um...I....I will say
this. So we...July 27'h I was, after our last meeting, um...(laughs) I was told by our Chair
that there will be no (laughs) conversations outside of public. So I'm going to tell you
how I feel, um, because you made it very clear to me that you won't have another
conversation with me outside of the public. So...when it comes down to the statement
that no one should be doing this work for free...again, I go back to the commission...
every commission in this city, but specifically the...this commission, signed up...looked at
the application and decided that they wanted to be a part of this important work. So,
some...what comes with that? Transportation, (laughs) meetings, um, being stopped in
the public, you know, because this is important work and people want to talk to those that
are making decisions and...and having conversations. Um...and...and it just, you just
mentioned that if there are youth groups and that type stuff that is being a part, that they
shouldn't do that for free, and I'm not saying that...we won't pay some or we shouldn't
pay some, but this broad umbrella(laughs) that everybody should get paid, I am in full
disagreement with that statement, and so now granted...everybody involved might get
paid, because it's warranted, but to go in thinking that no one should not be paid for this
work, I think is not proper. And...the other thing is...um, I...I do believe that when the...
when we see the facilitator, then maybe we'll be able to make some decisions based on
that, but right now I...I have to be very honest, because we won't have a conversation, as
you mentioned, you won't talk to me outside of public meetings. Personally I believe
that this Council should really rethink and relook at what our charge is for this
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commission. And, I also believe we need to figure out how do we accomplish the goals.
Is it through this commission, or do we go back to the drawing board and bring the...
community together and tell us. So...we (laughs) if the Mayor can't have a private
conversation with the Chair of the TRC, that is problematic. It is very problematic. And,
personally...I really believe this Council needs to rethink the charge for this TRC. I also
believe we need to really start over.
Traore: I'd like to directly respond to the things that you had just said.
Harris: I'd like to respond as well too, so after you I'd like to respond as well, so...
Traore: So the reason I said that I would not speak to you outside of public is because it seems
like the two meetings that we had, that led to work sessions, you know, having the full
conversation the night before of, yes,just want to get your thoughts, what you're
expecting to occur, etc., etc., etc. Once again that is more of my time taken, and I pour
my heart and my soul out in those talks, and then I come to the meeting, and I once again
pour out my heart and soul. Just to be stifled yet again,just to be pushed back, yet again!
And it is not only embarrassing, but it is not something I want to continue to go through.
So I can speak to you outside of the public, but I would just like to ask that when it comes
to the public meetings, please, do not misrepresent the work that this commission does,
because the...the thing that really got to me in the last meeting...was when we were
accused of not even doing anything that we were charged with, which once again would
be very clear to all seven Members of City Council...if you did all actually have a stake in
this commission, and thank you, Councilor Bergus, for coming to meetings, because we
did also have multiple Members of the Council admit at the last public meeting that they
do not pay as much attention to the commission as they should. So...why should I feel
that it is necessary for me to continue reaching out and calling...if you don't even show
that you have a stake in it, because that is something that we are all a part of. And it is
something that we heavily care about. So show us that you do as well. So if you don't
even care about this commission as it stands, I wonder when you go back to the drawing
board, will you care enough about the next solution you come up with, or can I even call
it a solution because will it even be seen through to the end?
Teague: I do want to make a point, which I brought up that night, that when I called you about
the meeting, it was really to give you what to expect in a meeting, because it was your
first time coming, to talk to this body, as the TRC representative. And I was going to call
you up to talk...so I was talking about procedural things. Any content to the budget, the
only thing I stated was there could be several ways this will go. Council can approve it.
Council can delay it. Or Council can change it. So I wanted you to be aware that those
are the things that could happen. Outside of that, my conversation (laughs) was over.
(mumbled) anything that you offered, you offered and I just listened. I didn't have
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anything else to offer. So...I'm not...and I didn't lead you on with any conversation. I
just essentially told you a procedure, but again, I don't believe...that, you know, that
position,maybe you misunderstood me or how that conversation went, but it was very
clear to me that it was only procedural that I gave you. That was it!
Traore: So our conversation's only going to be procedural, because if that's all our conversations
are going to be then I don't see a need.
Teague: The conversation that day was procedural, of what you can expect. I will call you up
and you'll be able to present. That was procedural. I reached out to make sure that you
were aware of what was going to happen. I didn't want you to come here and think
something different.
Traore: I was well aware of what was going to occur before it occurred,just like the first time
when the TRC pause had occurred. And when you had called me that time. With...
within two minutes of the conversation even starting. I told you, point blank, on the
phone, it does not matter what I say on this phone call, I already know what you guys are
going to do —you are going to pause the commission, because I am not as naive as many
of you would like to think. And it is very clear what the decisions are going to be before
they are even made. And that's all I have to say and I would like to give it over to Eric.
Harris: Okay. Um, so first of all, I will address what the Mayor said and you said (mumbled)
couple times in your first presentation. It sounds like it's a personal thing with you.
Because he doesn't want to have conversations outside of the public, and you said you
took it personally. You used that word a few times. So that, you know, there's no
denying that, you know, the evidence is great right there that you took it personally that
he didn't want to talk to you, if it wasn't a public forum. So that's pretty evident. Urn, so
I just want to address that part. Um, another thing, and I'm going to say it personally, and
this is from my own personal feelings and...about the TRC, I've been downtown in Iowa
City today cause I heard the people talk about like what does the TRC do? What do they
do outside of their meetings? I've been down here since about 11:45, all about TRC
things, things that we sponsor, things that we got going on, things that we...groups that
we affiliated with—the Excluded Workers Coalition. I've been down here since about
11:45 today, you know, dealing with things like that because of things that don't have
anything to do with the City Council, but with the government of Iowa illegally taking
people's unemployment benefits when there's evictions looming and things like that. So
that's the things that the TRC does. Um, other TRC members have been in attendance,
plenty of times when we...in other events outside of just the Thursday TRC meeting. On
average, I may spend four, five hours out of my day, whether it's responding to emails,
whether it's going to different events, whether it's talking with my fellow members or
things like that, and what do you think that I have to find to do with my kids during that
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time? What do you think that...like right now it's dinner time. And when we're done
with this discussion, I have to go take a break and go outside and call my 17-year-old son
and tell him some food to prepare and for the...for the rest of my children, who are under
12-years-old. Um, we spend time in here talking about a BearCat, which is a...it's a
lesser tool of war, but it costs $200,000! The work that the TRC does is really critical, at
this point right now. We're working with Excluded Workers, we're working with lots of
different things that we got going on, and when we get our facilitator, we're going to be
working on more things. So...you take four or five hours, six hours at times, or
sometimes...when we were on Zoom calls, it would be four, five hour Zoom calls, and
when you have children, see how much that takes out your day. See if you can maintain
that, plus your regular job, plus other things that you may do, plus work you might have
to do around your house, but yet and still, you know, we talk about BearCats! Another
tool of war! That costs $200,000! I don't care if it's smaller than the MRAP! It's still a
tool of war, or you know, no offense to no Council Members, but we talk about snow
removal, fireworks. But not the people that's doing the important work in this city and
with that, I yield!
Traore: I do want to make it clear that in no way do I hold ill will towards any of you, or I do not
mean any of my comments in complete disrespect. I do not disrespect any of you. I'm
just being completely honest in terms of how I feel and I see these things. So I want to
make sure that that is clear once again, so that narrative cannot be twisted, as it was in the
past. I'm not a hateful person. Never have been, never will be. This is just, once again,
me being honest in terms of what I have seen thus far.
Harris:And I would also like to add we still have one hard working, the only one that we have,
staff member, Stefanie. Where we going to get the rest of our staff to help us out? We
been doing this through the whole pandemic, on our own, with one staff member. I yield.
Gathua: I'll take the floor, if I'm allowed.
Teague: Absolutely!
Gathua: Uh...I remember in one of the City Council listening posts last year, in September. That
time I was (unable to understand) I didn't volunteer to work as a commissioner in the
TRC. That time we didn't have it yet. And I remember...asking the Council that we need
to do better, as far as (unable to understand) inequity is concerned. And of course having
the fear, having been a member of my beloved city of Iowa City and bringing up my
children since 2002, and especially for my son, and my ex-husband, always...even today,
having to cry because any time they go around my beloved city, are they going to be
dead? And I've been known to be dramatic, my children say so, but...black mothers
living in the U.S., they know that that is no dramatic. So I ask the Council...uh, as I sit
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here, somebody goes and looks at my vita, they will see...who I am and sometimes things
like my education will mitigate my relationship with somebody who is white, but while I
am driving on Iowa City and a traffic stop, I am a black body, and so is my ex-husband,
so are my two sons. So that fear is very real, and it's not dramatic. It has happened since
the first black body arrived in the U.S.A. Now that being said, which I shared at that
time, is what keeps me joining every day, any cause that is to make that better, and I did
address the Mayor directly and ask him, as we continue doing this work, and I want us to
keep thinking about this as we move forward, whatever we arrive at as we continue
moving, making our Iowa City better, and as we improve, reissue equity in our city. Are
we checking a box or are we serious...as the City Council, as we do this? And one of the
things, I'll refer to something that Commissioner Harris has asked. Why was the TRC set
up by not having information on...the City Council charging us with the work? Who...
(unable to understand) have been lucky to serve on the Human Rights Commission and
we had a lot of the City mechanisms that were doing a lot of the work, the TRC is doing.
I want to be corrected on that, because we really do not have information...we don't have
a comparison of the other commissions. What do they have(unable to understand) and
what is the Ad Hoc TRC having? So as we move on, let us ask ourselves that question,
as the City Council, because the TRC is charged with the work that the City Council is
doing. We are part of that or...or is that so? Or is it a punching bag? Was it work...was it
to check a box? (unable to understand) the situation that was there last summer, and at
the same time, to be pointed at—we are doing this; we are doing this but they're failing;
the TRC is not doing it. As we move on from here, or...are we working together? To
make our city better? For my two sons and their children, and all of my children, and
when I talk of just my sons, it's not just my sons. It's for all of us, because if one of us
suffers (unable to understand) we all suffer. I yield!
Johnson: I have a question. I was just wondering, uh, what...what's your ideal way for things to
be handled for the TRC...Mr. Mayor?
Teague: Oh, you're asking me specific?
Johnson:Yes, Mr. Mayor.
Teague: Um, actually that was a question or...or a related question that was asked of me, um,
after the last meeting. Um, again, I think the short answer, cause I wanted to definitely
allow more conversation to be had, um...I think the short answer would be...it needs to be
relooked at, from my perspective. And have multiple people give their thoughts.
Johnson: I was wondering what was your, uh, when it comes down to relooked at, what do you
mean by relooked at exactly?
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Teague: I'm thinking how do we achieve the charges...of the TRC, because that's so important to
me that we not check a box, that we do it in unity as much as we can. We know that there
has been some hurt by...amongst the TRC, amongst our own people, and so how do we
move forward? Um, there could...I think potentially the best way to move forward in
unity is to restructure.
Johnson: Does that mean dismantle the current TRC?
Teague: It could.
Harris: Um, I'm going to have to speak. I don't, um, I'm going to speak real quick. I don't
agree with you because we already went through that process. The people that need to be
removed from the TRC have been removed, or left the TRC. And I'm talking about
people who made inappropriate comments, who did inappropriate behavior, which I'm
sorry that they did that and I heard a Council Member say that one of those people was
removed, a good person that was removed from the TRC. No, that person delayed the
TRC. That person made inappropriate comments to the public, after a TRC meeting, and
that person continues to talk bad about the TRC on social media. It is morally bankrupt
that that person continues to do that. Um, it is not about, you know, financial things.
Some people are just morally bankrupt. And that person that I'm talking about is a
Johnson County Supervisor. So just so everybody know, and it's going to be the second
one that I have to call out this week for inappropriate behavior. With that I'm going to
yield.
Teague: I...I don't want to get into a match here (laughs) but...
Harris:Yeah!
Teague: I have to tell you how I'm...how disappointed I was within our TRC, how embarrassed I
was within our TRC, as a black person and how divisive the...everyone played a part.
Okay? So...uh, the person you're referring to is a pillar in our community, is a uniter in
our community, and the actions that was done towards her, totally unacceptable.
Harris: That's what the problem is! Because of the bias of that feeling. You...how many
meetings did you attend when she was cursing in the meetings, calling up people after the
meetings, cursing them out. How many meetings were you there for that behavior?
When we asked her to have a hearing about her inappropriate, she disrupted the whole
meeting with profanity and resigned before we could even take a vote.
Teague: Okay. I...what I do know is (both talking)
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Harris: (both talking) we can talk about that later cause I'll talk to you outside of public, it don't
matter to me. I'm not, you know, I'm me so (several talking)
Traore: Let's bring it back to the focus (several talking)
Dillard: Uh, I just wanted to chime in. We've had such a lovely discussion (laughter) Um, as a
new TRC mi...TRC member, I would just like to say my experience, um, has just felt
really disorganized. I do not feel support from the City Council. I feel like you set us up
for failure. I feel like coming into this situation, most of us are new. So as my fellow
Commissioner Wangui said, we don't have the same supports as other commissions do.
Um, we don't have to talk about the stipend situation, but that stems from that. You're
asking us to do a lot, with no direction. So that's really frustrating. Urn, also if we...if we
jump into that not knowing anything ,and it seems like maybe none of you understand
what TRC is. When we got the RFP and realized this is what...this is all the different
things that could be done, that we could have had beforehand, um, to get into that and
then to hear that, that's just frustrating all over. Like this whole commission has been set
up for failure. If you really care about it, you're not showing it. And that's just all
I...that's how I feel. (applause in background)
Salih: I'd really like to start with acknowledging all the hard work that everyone here does and,
but that's also...the other commissioners are doing like in other commissions, also they
doing the same thing that you guys do. Uh, for me I really don't see a difference, because
you...yes,you are doing hard work, you leave your children, you come here. As you said,
some of the Commissioner not here today because they are working. I been in the same
shoes, when I was in, uh, you know...when I was in the CPRB, the Police Review Board.
At that time I was working at Procter& Gamble and I was studying at Kirkwood
Community College. I have five children, and I was low-income, living in low-income
housing. I was doing this, completely for free, because when I (unable to understand) for
free. And I just volunteer, and I would like just to give to my city and like volunteer to
the city that I love. You know, I...I don't mind...if I said yes, we going to pay you guys
because you are doing a lot of work and you are spending a lot time. I'd be reach out by
three different commissioner who are in different, like other commissions. They are low-
income. One of them, she lost her job during the pandemic. She receive unemployment,
and now after the, you know, the Governor stop the unemployment, she's now without
work and she...she doesn't have any income, and she's looking for a job during the
pandemic and she couldn't find anything, and she told me that if you guys going to pay
commissioner, pay me too! That means people like you who are really...you know, low
income maybe. They have children. They don't make enough, and they spend a lot time
on this, there is many, many people like you in other commission. What we going to do?
Are we going to pay all the commission? (unable to understand) commission? I...I
really....understand, we know that the job you doing, what...even waiting for you to do.
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There is many work that we are hoping, and many change that we are hoping you like do
it and work on it. I understand that, but...Planning and Zoning! They doing a....they put
in a lot of hours...in their commission. CPRB, I was one of them. We look at hours of
videos, different cameras, and reading like the police report and everything. This is...I
just believe that we have to (unable to understand) all the other commission who are
really volunteering. They doing as much as you guys doing. They have children. They
take transportation. They spend a lot time reviewing documents and doing a lot thing.
That's why I really cannot support the stipends unless it's (unable to understand) for all
commissions. Not only like this commission, because it's not fair. I know a lot people, I
told you three people reach out to me and they said they need also to get paid. So, it's
not...but it's not fair to me, it's not fair to everyone, like if I...if we said yes...for stipends,
for this commission, we have to say yes for everyone. That's why for now,because I
know we don't have budget...for every commissioner in the city to get paid. We have a
lot of commissions, over 20-something commission. That's why I'm not going to support
this. And I understand that, and you understand that when you sign up for this, you knew
this is for free and this is volunteer. That's the only thing really, uh, you know, make me
not support this because it's not fair to the other people that I know. They are low-
income, minority, been over five years doing the same thing. They are without job right
now. And it's not fair. That's why I'm not going to support it.
Harris: Those commissions, um, don't have a deadline and those commission have one, more
than one staff member.
Salih: No, no (both talking)
Harris: (both talking) and I will point that out(both talking)
Salih: No, that's not true!
Traore: What I would just like to say is I think it's...honestly, very, very hurtful to hear that those
individuals are going through that. My heart does go out to them. But I just want to add
as well that at no time did we say that we do not believe other commission...other
commissioners on other commissions should be paid. At no time have we said that. I
think the true question is, why do all of those commissioners do all of that work for free?
Because the way I think about it, when it comes to labor that supports a city, that supports
a government, why should that work continually be done for free? Because if you do
retain good individuals by making sure they are truly rewarded for the work that they do,
then don't they continue to do good work, and don't you have better outcomes? I mean
you are with the Center for Worker Justice and I believe that is a pillar that your group
heavily believes in. So for me, I think that makes sense, and I think part of your
argument was essentially arguing in agreement of that. So I think it is something that
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should be looked at, and to say that we don't have the budget for it...I don't know that
that's necessarily true either. There can be a budget for it. Those requests can be made.
Maybe they just haven't been looked at enough. I mean, again, last month, what was it,
like $150,000 for someone to look at what your going to do with recreation, and then
that's going to have to go through another process of even approving it and then probably
some Planning and Zoning and other commissions having to be involved. So paying that
group $150,000 for other commissions to then have to relook at it for then you to get
paid. So the only people that got paid out of that situation were the contractors and
yourselves, but there are others in the middle that don't that still have to be a part of it.
So to me that is not worker justice. So I just think that there is a lot of aspects missing in
there, and that's part of the point here. That maybe that old normal that we were adhering
to was not correct, and maybe it is time to look at things differently, cause I think this was
said in the last meeting, but this is something I believe as well. Just because you didn't
have something, doesn't mean that others shouldn't. The point should be progress. I
mean the country that we live in, the point of this country is progress, moving forward.
This democratic republic, this idea of the...what the United States was that was thought of
as crazy, right? But it was progress, and we continue to progress going forward. I mean I
do heavily believe in this as well, because if I was someone that didn't believe it, I mean,
if my own dad was a person that thought, 'Hey, I didn't have this so you shouldn't,' I
would still be living in a mud hut village in Africa.
Teague: You do know that there are lots of people that volunteer hours, for a lot of not-for-profits
that work night and day! And do not get a single penny, and don't even want one.
Salih: No, not because(several talking)
Traore: (several talking) great for them, and I commend them for that, but again, if they don't
want a single dollar, that is their choice.
Teague: Right, and if...and if you want to get paid, you go get a job that pay you!
Traore: I do have a job that pays me.
Teague: This one...this one does not pay! (several talking)
Weiner: (several talking) ...on the budget issue. I would really like to get back to focusing on the
budget proposal and the...and the overall budget issue, if that's possible? Um, my
confusion right now is...is that the...the numbers that I am seeing in front of my on what
we were...were given don't align with the numbers that you're talking about, so again I
wrote...I wrote those down as we were going. Um, but the...you've asked about staff and
you've asked about purpose. Urn, it just struck me...it is....has been my sense since the
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very beginning of this that...that a facilitator or a facilitator group that has appropriate
experience, that has the researchers and has the staffers to help expand on what, urn,
Stefanie Bowers has been doing, is probably the...the best, uh, the absolute best support
for the commission. Uh, I'm hoping that you can go...that you can make the contact and
go...and that....and go through with this RFP. I don't know what the ultimate cost would
be, but to me, that is probably the most worthwhile expenditure that...that you all can put
into your budget, uh, if you can truly be supported by people who we, as a city, have no
experience with TRCs. I...I admit that fully. Urn, but the people who have applied for
this...through this RFP do, as...as I believe the, your Chair noted, urn, Eduardo Gonzales
has...has worked with multiple, multiple TRCs around the world and in this country. Urn,
he works with a group whose goal is to help TRCs around the country, and my sense is
that they have not been any the less engaged and involved simply because they were
not....they didn't live exactly where it was, where...where those TRCs were taking place.
They...that....that's their whole (mumbled). So if, urn, I...you know I don't, in the end I
don't know what the rest of the budget is going to look like, but that has to be, for me,
that has to be the centerpiece—getting...and that can...that...that would be your main
support and your....and probably your main staffing and probably...and from my
perspective probably worth every single penny and I would also add that I'm supportive
of transportation money. I'm supportive of babysitting money...uh, or City money,
because those are real expenses that...that allow...that will allow people to participate in
commissions and...and other things. That....those are issues being fought out in
Washington and in state houses all over the country, urn, and...and those sort...those sorts
of expenses I'm completely supportive of. (several talking)
Salih: I'm sorry,but I forget to say that, urn, also supporting for childcare and transportation, uh,
because,yeah, you need to, you know, to...it happen to me once. I was trying to come
here and I couldn't find even somebody to babysitter my kids, and if I start paying to
come and do volunteer job, this is going to cost me money. So I agree, uh, you know, for
the transportation and babysitting budget, I support that. (several talking)
Taylor: (several talking) Uh, I...I wanted to just, uh, mention to Chair Traore, thank you for your
comment about not feeling any ill will or disrespect. I'd like to speak for the rest of my
Council Members. I...I'm...we also did not feel any ill will or disrespect. Quite the
contrary. At the time of your appointments, we had great respect for you. I was amazed
at the quality of the applicants that we received, and it was somewhat difficult to even...to
select the few and I was glad we expanded the number, uh, to sit on this very important
commission, cause we did believe it was important, urn, and the comment about (clears
throat) uh, no direction and perhaps we were guilty of that at the beginning, but in the
first few months, a facilitor....we forget about this, a facilitator was hired,Jesse Case was
hired, and was there for just a few months, and now it's been how many months and
you've been without. That was what the intent of the facilitator was, to help you with
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that guidance and direction, and here we are still months later still talking about, and I
understand with the RFP, but hopefully we can speed that process up and...and that would
help you, and Councilor Weiner and...and others have mentioned, uh, these outside
people from Ohio is it, and...uh....
Weiner: The current group is...I think based out of Virginia.
Taylor: Virginia, uh, that are helpful, and those are resources that can help you also. Uh, it
doesn't necessarily have to be a staff member, although you have Stefanie who's an
excellent person and an excellent resource, urn, so I think those kinds of things, and uh,
there was mention about, uh....if you have a paid person but they perhaps don't have any
ownership in the community, but uh, it is...it will be important to, uh, have people who
truly believe in the intent, uh, of...of the commission and where you want to go and what
you need to do, and I myself would like to be helpful with you, to...to get that direction,
and...and....and get your meetings progressing and accomplish things. I...I would like to
see that.
Harris: I have a bit of a general question again. Is it the pay or is the performance that would
(both talking)
Taylor: (both talking) I forgot to mention that, that at the time that we did appoint you all, and
that's been over a year ago, and in that time there was never any assumption made about
compensation to sit on the commission. Nothing ever had been said, not from the
beginning and not until just recently with your budget proposal. So that's why I have
some concerns about that.
Traore: I just want to clarify a few things. So for one, uh, Jesse Case was not with us for a few
months. Um, he actually never signed his contract. I know you guys approved it, but he
never signed it. Additionally, we want to say that, uh, the expectation of, um...of a
stipend or any type of compensation, I never had one either, but as I said in the last
meeting that we were here, that idea did not originally come from myself or anyone else
on the commission. That idea was originally given by Jesse Case himself, in one of our
public meetings, the same man whose contract you approved. That is the only time I
began thinking about it. And then after looking at the history of more TRCs, seeing that
same recurring theme, and also Eduardo Gonzales, who is going to be brought in as a part
of(mumbled) if that is approved. He, as well when asked about it in the media, agreed.
So I just keep seeing these things as tying back into one another of the people that are in
the leadership that actually have a true stake in the TRC, when the person whose contract
you approved, that's how the whole stipend thing started. This is not just our idea and
how that came about. Once again, this was from Jesse Case. So I don't get why we're
being made out to be the bad guys on this, as if this has never happened before with a
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truth and reconciliation commission. And as if we're saying that truth and reconciliation
commissions are the same thing as all other City commissions, because they truly are not!
You even put the word 'ad hoc' in front of it. It is not the same thing, and it is unfair to
say so. That is no disrespect, again, to the other commissions, but they are not the same
thing. And in terms of the amount of time that's put in, there was a time where I even
asked them if...could we do the monthly meetings, so we could have more time for
subcommittees,more time to get out in the communities, and it was agreed that, no, we
have to do the bi-weekly because of the amount of work that is needed, the amount of
follow-up that is needed. So we do know that that time commitment needs to remain,
facilitator or not. And yes, this is something we've heavily looked at. I mean the
proposal in itself was like 60 pages. So again, that was more time that we had to take out
of our lives to review that entire proposal, and that is not easy. So I don't get why all of
that work is expected to continually be done for free. I mean for me for work, you said to
get a job, I mean I do have one and I worked very hard to get it. I mean I taught myself
the skills that I needed to get it. And with that job in the last three weeks, because we do
international things, I've essentially been working in multiple time zones, which is why I
said that I have work to do tonight...cause I have people in Asia that I still have to speak
to later tonight. So when we have these proposals and things of that nature and these
extra meetings, it's pretty taxing. I mean if I were to show you my sleep schedule from
the last five, six months, you'd see how broken up it is and that I don't average more than
four and a half hours of sleep any night...during the week. I catch up with naps here and
there on weekends. Cause there's still more to do! So I do take it very, very seriously, to
the point that it took me so long to decide that if I wanted to join this, that it wasn't until
literally the very last minute, the last literal minute that you could send in an application
that I sent mine in. I thought about it that hard. Do I want to put my time into this? Do I
think I can actually contribute to this? Do I think that we can make this a success? And I
do still think that that can happen. I just want to make sure that the contributions of
everyone on this commission are truly seen as contributions that matter, because they do!
And that we aren't just going to scrap this once again and act as if everything that has
been done was all for naught!
Salih: I really respect what you said, but...just keep in mind, they are not alone. There is a lot
people doing the same thing, you know, how many commissioner they...they join the City
commissions at the same time they are volunteering in a number of organizations and you
know like also they don't have even time to sleep. I personally know those people! You
know, I can...I can remember I being...you mentioned the Center for Worker Justice
earlier. I been volunteering at the Center for Worker Justice while I was living in a low-
income housing. I was volunteering for five years for free and I was in the commission
of the City, and I don't....when I go home I don't even have time to sleep. So I
understand what you coming from exactly! But this is how it is from day one, you know,
this is was no payment for it as a volunteer, and you choose...like...it's not like forcing
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somebody or appointing somebody. That's you choose voluntarily to join. That..that's
what it is, but you know, look at the other commissioners. They volunteer somewhere
else, and they do great job in this community, and all of it like volunteer.
Traore: If every single member of the TRC hypothetically were to be gone, who would you
expect to take all of...all nine positions and actually do this work?
Salih: I really don't know, but there is some people out there will come and join(both talking)
Traore: Nine in total? Would they (both talking)
Salih: ...and there is many application when we choose you! There is many people in line, but
you know, I just want to tell you that this is...was like this from the beginning. And what
is not fair for..for others, you know, for you. If I...if we pay you we have to pay everyone
and this is not something that we have to discuss right now, because if we're going to say,
okay, as you said early, we have to pay all the commission. No one should work for free.
Then this is a big like...thing that we have to go and discuss, because this is not only
become about the TRC. This has become about all commission (both talking)
Traore: (several talking) I mean that statement in itself(both talking) I...I just want to keep this
concise so we can just move on to what we can actually agree on. That statement in itself
—that no one should work for free—of course I believe that. I mean those words in itself
—no one should work for free—like I hope everyone believes that. I mean this is a
capitalist society, but...hopefully you are not looking to work for free. Anyways, um,
what do we actually agree on? So it sounds like the facilitator aspect. So if it were to
come in for that 198,000 to $200,000, that is something that you would be okay with?
Salih: Personally I'm not going to be okay with, because 198 is too much (both talking)
Traore: That...that's what they asked for and that's the only RFP that came in.
(female): So I just wanted (several talking) can I just jump in real quick? Just clarifying that,
um, it's not just one person (laughs) This is an expert, a team of experts, that are going to
come and do it. If you're not going to pay us to do it, why wouldn't you pay the team of
experts to do it? That's all I have to say. So to say that you're not going to do one or the
other is...that's ridiculous!
Teague: I...I do (several talking) please (both talking)
Mims: I think that's a great point, and I want to go back to what Councilor Weiner said. I think
where I'm at is, um...I am not supportive of the stipends. I am totally supportive of
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getting you the staff and support that you need, whether it's through this RFP or any other
process that we need to do, because I totally agree there is too much work for
commission members to do on their own. When we look at our other commissions, they
have depending on the particular commission, there are multiple staff members doing
background work. There may be one staff member that is a liaison, but there's other City
staff members that are doing a lot of that background work. So I totally agree that you
need support and staff. Urn, I really like the idea of professional organizations that have
experience. You asked the question would we support this RFP— I need to see the
details. I would not say no (both talking)
Traore: (both talking) ...64 pages, so I hope you all look at it soon.
Mims: I will! But I...I mean, like you said, it's not just one person. It's an organization. It's
people who are professional, who have experience and if that's what they're bringing to
the table and the time commitment that is necessary to give you, uh, the support you need
to do the work that needs to be done to gather information, etc., I will definitely give it
very, very serious consideration. The number itself does not scare me. Okay? That...that
doesn't scare me, if it gets you to where you need to be to do the work. Um, so that's the
approach that I like. I...I am not in a position that I want to start over, rethink...anything
like that. I think by getting the support in place that you need, then hopefully we can
move forward. I'm not supportive of the stipend. I am supportive, and I would be
supportive of this for any other commission, is looking at...because I do think we...I do
feel important that there's some consistency in childcare expenses and looking at travel,
um, expenses, if necessary, as well. So more than willing to look at those. I think
comment was made about being paid for what you do. Yes I agree with that, but I also
agree there is a huge part of our society that is built on and benefits significantly from
volunteerism. I think that's really, really important. I spent three years on School Board.
You don't get paid. Okay? Our School Board members do incredible work. We have all
of our commission members, etc. We have you, who have volunteered for this, um, and I
think that sense of volunteerism is also really, really important, but it is absolutely
essential that volunteers have the support that they need, so that they can be effective
with their time and their expertise and their commitment.
Thomas: (several talking) I just wanted to add a couple of comments, um...uh, you know,
building on what...what I've heard here. Um, I...I too think the facilitator, which I...we
did talk about this at our last meeting on the 27th, that, uh, I almost really think the name
`facilitator' may not be the most accurate way of describing the role this consultant will
be playing. I tend to view it more as a project or program manager, who has a much
more comprehensive role than just simply facilitating. I think that's the key next step is
having that...that position filled, uh, as...as Susan just mentioned, I have no...no trouble
with...with what they may be proposing as their fee for that. They are, in a sense, going
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to provide you with that staff support, which is necessary to come from the outside
because it's not an area that anyone on our current staff has that much experience with. I
mean you're going to have to bring in someone, uh, with that special expertise that's
required for producing a truth and reconciliation process. I...I would ask in terms of the
budget proposal, and I mentioned this at our last meeting as well, uh, in my mind the
budget needs to be tied to a plan. What is...what is the plan from now until the report is
due, uh, what, I think May 1s`, at least currently. So it's tied to a schedule. It's tied to a
series of tasks that need to be completed in a certain sequence, each of which may have a
cost associated with them. So the...the budget is tied to a plan. It's tied to a scope of
work, duties are assigned. You know, what's the duty of your commission? I think the
greatest problem that I see has been that you were working in a vacuum. You didn't
have, other than Stefanie's support from staff, and yet you also didn't have a program
manager in place to provide that structure, which really staff couldn't provide anyway.
So you...you were kind of in a...suspension, and in that suspension filled it with the
realization, we're gonna have to do the work; we don't have that support in place. I
would hope that will change with having a program manager, dramatically change, and so
your role will change, as a consequence of that. I would...I would see your roles
transforming into what is a more conventional commission role, uh, which is setting
agendas, approving the...the material that is developed by the program manager and so
forth. So you're...you're not doing the work, you're approving the work. Uh, you know,
it's a different, uh, role, and you're also representing the process. You're the public face
on the process. That's important. So, you know, this...this selection of the...the
consultant is absolutely essential. I would hope it also, in terms of the budget, goes right
to the end of the process. I know we're sort of talking about a budget through December.
I think it would be helpful to see the budget for the entire process. You know, you can
break it down into, you know, from now until December, but I think I would find it more
useful to understand how that fits into the full picture.
Traore: I have to agree with that last point, but again, that's just one thing that we need to talk to
this group about, because of the way their phases had overlapped in some cases and not
overlapped in others, not entirely sure when they would expect to have the final report
done. So it is difficult to have that entire process out. So also in terms of the comment
and having it tied to a schedule or in terms of different wants or needs, I did spend the
bulk of, you know, the entire first portion that I spoke really elaborating on that, not only
this time, but last time I was here, and just further elaborated on it once again, and then
also did raise the point that other groups that have budgets talk about how,you know, this
is going to be used for this, but may not even use it for that or may not even use the
amount, at all! And also would like to raise the point that when this commission was
created, there was $1 million that you all had allocated towards Black Lives Matter things
and TRC and, again, in terms of having a direction, a scope, and everything, is there any
clarity on that...yet from all of you or is that just an allocation, cause that's just the point,
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again, of that's a bit of an arbitrary standard being applied on us, even though I'm still
continually telling you what we are expecting every line item to be used on. So I don't
know how that can be any more clear. Do I have to have every single bullet point of what
will be done at a public hearing? Do I have to see into the future and know that?
Knowing that this process could easily change, or the facilitator and their group could
easily decide that, hey, a different approach needs to be taken here or there. So how can I
have that entire thing out for you? I cannot tell the future, so I'm giving you what I do
have, based on what I do know. And I feel that that...it has been spelled out as well as
possible.
Bergus: We're getting close to the end of our time and I just want to make sure that you all hear
that I think we need to stick with the current commission. I'm support of the members
who...I'm supportive of the members who we appointed and I think...as far as what we
agree on...what I've heard from both sides of the table today repeatedly is the mo...the
words 'move forward.' We want to move forward and we want to do it together. As the
Mayor acknowledged, there's hurt, there's been a lot of, uh, discomfort and distress, and
we will get past that. It's going to take additional work. It's going to take additional
time, but I think having the facilitator, having someone who can provide the expertise to
help formulate the work plan so that we can have the budget at a detail that you are not in
a position to provide us right now. You...you just really cannot do that, and order of
operations wise, we've required you to do that, and we said you need to come to us with a
budget, but you don't yet have someone to provide that support to make it maybe
something more, um, fleshed out than it is at this point in time, and I think, you know, we
could spend all day talking about why that happened (laughs) you know, what...what
happened in the past, but I do watch your meetings, I do listen, and I know that you're
forward looking, and I think we are too. I think we are committed to this. It is not just
checking a box. Uh, the amount of the facilitator is not troubling to me, more because of
that million dollars and the fact that we haven't taken the time to allocate that towards,
um, anything else, and so I think that, you know, if we take one-fifth of that essentially
towards a professional team of experts to support you in this work,just at,you know, this
level with needing to look at the proposal, as Councilor Mims said, seems very
reasonable. I think we might be closer to the same page than we're willing to
acknowledge on the stipend question, as well. If we're talking about supporting, uh, the
ability of commissioners, yours and others, to attend with support for childcare or for
transportation, I would add food to that, when you're at a night meeting for(laughs) six
hours, uh, considering that. That does sound like a stipend to me, and we don't have the
amount nailed down. We don't know what criteria could be involved in that and would
certainly need to map that out, and it would have budget implications for the City, wider
than just your commission, but I think, again, we may be closer to that than we're willing
to acknowledge. So I just...I hope we will continue this conversation after, as I
understand order of operations, you all, uh, are going to talk with the facilitator and then
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maybe make that recommendation. I assume would come back to us in the form of
approval of that contract. So I hope that that's the path that we can...can continue down.
Gathua: I'll jump in with(unable to understand) a lot of words that kept on coming back as...
especially when we were discussing stipend, and I'm glad, Councilor Bergus, that you
brought it back. The word is either stipend or some sort of allowance,just like, um, I'm
from (unable to understand) and we usually have teaching assistants and graduate
assistants. They have a stipend, because really what they bringing is much more than
(unable to understand) compensation, but now when it goes to payment, if you looked at
the...if you looked at the (unable to understand) resumes or whichever word you want to
put, on the people who are on the commission, really that would be a totally different
discussion...on what they're bringing in, even what is not really tangible. That...the other
word we kept on using is equality (unable to understand) As we move forward, let's
remind ourselves...uh, equality is not always equity, and right now the TRC work...right
from the very foundation, it's about racial inequity, which we are attempting to make our
city better on that. So let's remind ourselves and as we think and look in, yes...it's a
commission, but already like somebody pointed out, there's the word 'ad hoc.' There's a
time frame. So those are just a few things. So if we(unable to understand) it's the same
work. Is it? So let's remember, equality is not equity as we move forward, and the...and
I'm underlining and uppercasing 'MOVE FORWARD.' Thank you, I yield (both talking)
Teague: Yes. I want to thank the TRC Commissioners for being here today. We have actually
reached the end of our time here, um, at this meeting. I did want to make one last
comment,just for Legal, to potentially look at or maybe give the TRC Commissioners at
one of the meetings some guidance. I don't know if in person meetings if it were to be
required of TRC, what options they would have, if they have someone that's not local,
but I do think that that's something...to consider. Um,the other thing is I know that
Councilor Thomas mentioned, urn, you know, the TRC Commissioners would not be
doing the work,but more approving the work. So if...the facilitator, I think this is
something you all need to inquire with your facilitator, um, you know, what are their in-
person options, what are their in-person leg work, uh, throughout the community. I think
that's something for you to consider. At this point, unless there's anything else, um, I
think we'll be adjourned until our 6:00 PM formal meeting.
Harris: Can I say one more thing? Um, I just want to share the same sentiment that the other
members, there's no hard feelings. Urn, this is something that we have to debate and talk
about, and there's definitely no hard feelings on, so I just want to echo that, call it I heard,
and also I agree with the Councilor here, um, I'm not...um, it's Councilor Weiner. Um, I
agree the transportation costs and the food costs and the childcare costs, um, I'm not
looking for a salary, but those things need to be covered...at some point. You know? I'm
not looking for...even the amount, you know, I had, you know, I listened from the last
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meeting where people broke down, 'This is how much you're going to make an hour.'
Well, even if that's enough to cover those expenses, I'm not looking for a salary. That
amount is just an amount that was threw out there, and it's out there for debate.
Teague: Thank you so much, and....
Johnson: I just want to add one more thing too. I didn't join this at all...for pay, in no way, shape,
or form. But I have noticed a lot of people doing a lot of hard work. However we can
take care of them, I feel like, is the best way to do it. Whatever way we can. I definitely
agree with the childcare and food and transportation. I just feel like that is the, I mean,
bare minimum we could do for people who are doing their best for the community out
there. I just...I support it wholeheartedly so...I, when it comes down to pay myself; I
mean, like I said I didn't expect it. Wasn't expecting it, still don't expect it. However...I
think we need to recognize how hard people are working, and there are a lot of people
working hard. I think we need to recognize that too, and make changes. That's what
progression is all about. Let's try to move forward to move things in that direction,
where we do take care of people who are taking care of the community. There's a lot of
people out there who don't care at all and they just go about their life, but those who step
up, let's take care of them. That's all.
Teague:Again, thank you all, Commissioners, for being here today and we will be adjourned
until 6:00 PM.
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