Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024-11-19 TranscriptionPage 1 Council Present: Alter, Bergus, Dunn, Harmsen, Moe, Salih, Teague Staff Present: Fruin, Lehmann, Goers, Grace, Knoche, Havel, Sover, Hightshoe, Ralston Others Present: Monsivais, USG 1. Clarification of Agenda Items Teague: All right. We're transitioning over to the City of Iowa City's work session for November 19, 2024, and the first item on our agenda is clarification of agenda items. Bergus: Mayor, just to let you know I'll recuse for 6.c, which is the South of 6 SSMID budget. Teague: Great. Got it. Bergus: Thank you. Teague: Any other items? Hearing none. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 2 2. Information Packet Discussion [November 7, November 141 Teague: we're gonna move on to item 2. Information packet discussions. We have November 7 and then, for November 14 information packet, we do have a memo from our assistant, uh, city manager, um, with our 2025 state legislative priorities, and are there any thoughts or comments there? Alter: I actually had one, and of course, I don't have it pulled up, but, um, first of all, really good job. I think it's a strong, solid, reasonable set of, um, advocacy positions. But I wanted- I- I guess I just wanted to ask a question about, um, I believe it was in the education part, uh, with the university of Iowa and I apologize. I'm gonna- geez. Apologize on multiple fronts. Um, so just cutting to the chase, it was that I noted that there is advocacy for childcare in that. Um, but I was curious about why it seemed to be nested under, like, is there a strategic reason for it to be nested in accompanying, um, some of the university advocacy? Because it seems to me like it- unless I completely misread it. Lehmann: So it- it's nested in just talking about education generally, not just in the university. So in that item, we do talk about childcare, and we talk about, uh, public schools, I believe, and then also the university. I believe all of those are included in there. Alter: Thank you for clarifying and reminding me of the details. I was just wondering if because I know that the governor also has a strong focus on workforce, and there is a strong economic, um, argument to be made about childcare as a part of pumping out workforce that might be something to mull over, at least, and- and then it also might be drawn out as its own thing. But, um, I was really, really glad to see it in there. So I don't want to negate that. Lehmann: Sure. Fruin: Yeah, if the council wants to see we could pull childcare out and put that in a different section and frame it more of workforce as opposed to education. That's an easy change for us to make. But - Alter: I mean, it hits on education as well as the other, but I just was trying to think of what might align a little bit more and where there has been traction with other childcare efforts, I think has been in workforce. So it might be something to consider. Fruin: So the next step is we will take this memo and transition it to a resolution that you'll vote on on December 10. So whether it's this change or subsequent changes, I just want to make sure there's a majority of counsel that directs us to do that. [INAUDIBLE] Thank you. Teague: All right. Thank you. Any other items from the legislative priority since Kirk is here? Bergus: A very specific thing that maybe just doesn't go in this memo, but thinking ahead to our transit conversation in a minute. We've had conversations about advocating for the lowering of the minimum threshold for, ah, implementing a regional transit authority. Alter: All right. Yeah. Bergus: So I don't know if we want to explicitly state that or if people have thoughts on that. Harmsen: That makes sense. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 3 Alter: Yeah. It's a hurdle that we would like to not have be so high, so that makes a lot of sense. Harmsen: Yeah, agree. Fruin: Okay. I've heard four agrees or more, so we can do that. Bergus: In whatever way that doesn't draw attention, then it's really just us asking. Fruin: Understood. Teageu: All right, thank you, Kirk. Lehmann: Thank you. We'll- we'll bring it back to you on December 10. Teague: All right. Any other items from November 14? Hearing none. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 4 3. University of Iowa Student Government (USG) Updates Teague: We're gonna move on to item 3, University of Iowa Student Government Updates. Welcome. Monsivais: Hello all. I hope you're doing well. We are meeting tomorrow with the graduates to hopefully receive the final rate for, ah, the new Leasecap program. There are- from there, we will be able to move on with the steps to reserve each of the rooms, and then start a marketing campaign for it. ABTS or Associated Big Ten Schools Fall Conference happened this weekend, and the University of Iowa hosted it. Lots of good to come out of it. Within the coming weeks, Iowa City Downtown District as well as you all, will be getting an update from us about what those school students observed about Iowa City. We sent out a small survey to gather some feedback from those who have never had the privilege to visit Iowa City. Um, side note, they all love the Leasecap program and are looking always to implement a similar program at their schools. So it's nice to, ah, know that other schools taken inspiration from our student governments. Ali, we are working on making a physical purchase of the parking validations for finals week and dead week, and we appreciate that our senators passed a bill to help fund this. We are excited to give at least a little relief to students during, uh, exam season. And other than that, my birthday is tomorrow so - Alter: Happy birthday. Teague: All right. Happy birthday early. Monsivais: Thank you. Teague: Yes, thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 5 4. Potential Uses of the CRANDIC Rail Line Teague: All right, we're gonna move on to item 4, potential uses for the CRANDIC rail line. And all right. Welcome. Ralston: Thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you for having me. My name is Kent Ralston. I am the City's transportation planner. I'm also the executive director of the Metropolitan Planning Organization. We'll talk just a little bit this afternoon about the potential reuse of the CRANDIC rail line, like the mayor mentioned in a summary of options that's available to us. Just getting started by way of sort of the agenda for the presentation. I'll talk quickly just a little bit about the background of the CRANDIC line generally, kind of where we're coming from the past, and what's being- or what it's used for in the present. Ali, a little bit about the history of the studies that have been conducted over the last decade or so, findings of those studies, uh, the summary of options, obviously, and then some, ah, other considerations that I think we need to keep in mind as we move forward. And then also suggest some next steps that we might want to take. So real quickly, just the background of the CRANDIC line for those that aren't familiar. Uh, CRANDIC operated as a high-speed inter -urban rail line from Cedar Rapids to Iowa City for about 50 years, from 1904- 1953. It had 17 round trips each way from about 5:00 AM to midnight. And as you can see there in the slide, that's actually one of the CRANDIC trains operating in the early 1900s, and that's actually in Swisher, Iowa, just North of us. At its peak in 1945, the CRANDIC carried about 570,000 passengers annually. So really, uh, robust service that they offered. Ali, and that was successful right up until the advent of, of course, the cheaper automobile and diesel -powered buses. And that was really the demise of the CRANDIC back in about 1953. The tracks are currently used as freight rail and interchange with the Iowa Interstate railroad in the Amana Colonies, and they can actually trade loads and do those sorts of activities there in the Amanas. And really the corridor that I want to speak to you all about tonight is really what's shown up in yellow here in gold in the slide. About a nine -mile corridor roughly from Burlington Street, here in Iowa City, up to Penn Street in North Liberty. And for those that aren't familiar, the CRANDIC rail line is the set of tracks that actually crosses Burlington Street right by the University of Iowa Main Library. It also then crosses Iowa Avenue. It's the low and sort of uncomfortable bridge there on Iowa Avenue between the River and the old Capitol. Crosses the River, sort of parallels Highway 6 out into Coralville, kind of meanders through the residential neighborhoods in Coralville. And then, ah, when it gets to about Oakdale Boulevard and North Liberty, it sort of heads due north -south in that location, crossing Oakdale, crossing Forevergreen Road, and then of course, Penn Street as well. Quickly, sort through the history of studies. So I'm going to throw some information at you here. There's been about six studies done over the course of about the last decade or so, one of which, however, had three parts. So we haven't done all that many studies, but at least some different parts of one. Starting back in 2015 with the Iowa City to Cedar Rapids Passenger Rail Conceptual Feasibility Study that was completed by HDR. That study focused on a larger swath of the CRANDIC corridor roughly from Iowa City up to the Eastern Iowa airport. It provided high-level cost estimates and also looked into three different types of cars or trains, so to speak. One would have been a traditional system with catenary lines over it, which was what the CRANDIC line originally had with the electric lines running over. One would have been a more modern diesel -powered unit, which has the diesel engine sort of encapsulated within the actual car itself. Looks more like an L train or actually here I have an image of one. It would look something like the image there at the top, where it's actually inside the passenger cars itself. And then the last one was an actual more traditional type of unit, where it would have been sort of like Amtrak, where you actually have the train actually pulling a number of passenger rail cars. Fast forward into 2016, we then completed the second phase of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 6 that study, the North Liberty Passenger rail conceptual feasibility study. Ali, and that really honed in on the Iowa City Burlington Street, Iowa City up to Penn Street, North Liberty portion of the CRANDIC Rail. We had figured that going to the Eastern Iowa Airport had a few disadvantages. One was the cost was enormous. So really, what we looked at then was just really honing in. What's this really look like in our urban area? That second study completed in 2016 also added service plan and then honed in also on the type of vehicle that they thought was best, which was that image I showed you a minute ago, where the actual diesel powered units sort of within the passenger rail cars themselves. In 2018, there was a lot of excitement about our multi -use trails, and we then shifted gears just a little bit and conducted a CRANDIC right-of-way rails to trails conversion study. At that point in time, we had talked a lot about passenger rail and the idea of actually converting the rail to a trail bed had come up, or, in fact, even running just a multi -use trail parallel to the rail would have also been fine. And that study was completed in 2018. We did determine that we could actually do a rails -to -trails conversion, although they're somewhat difficult. There's some regulatory requirements, and it came in at about a $4.5 million cost estimate. And it was a fairly simple study. Advancing to 2020, we then completed the third and final phase of the North Liberty Community Rail Conceptual feasibility study. And this really provided the full picture of what passenger rail would look like, again, in our urban area between Iowa City and North Liberty. It also added things from the previous studies and added to them, adding information about stations and platforms, operations, and maintenance costs. And it also did a really in-depth writers -hip analysis, focusing on university staff and students. And the idea behind that was it would set us up for future grants through the federal rail administration. Ali, then in 2020, you'll remember the pandemic it and discussions of passenger rail pretty much sopped at that point in time. Budgets were, of course, tight for communities. We had other things on our minds, and we've sort of stopped talking about the CRANDIC rail for a period of time. Also, during that time, because of COVID, the CRANDIC Railroad said, you know, our business models changed a little bit, and we're not as interested in passenger rail as we once were. They were, of course, still open to discussions and allowing communities to use their rail for these opportunities, but really said, you know, we're not as interested in actually operating it as we once were. We're also maybe not as interested in you utilizing some of our facilities. Previous to this, we had anticipated using their maintenance and storage facilities up in Cedar Rapids at their shops. So- so changed things just a little bit. The third thing that changed is that we recieved- Iowa City received four battery electric buses. And there was a ton of excitement about the electric buses. And at that point in time, we said, Okay, maybe we should step back and actually take a look at if we're looking at the right mode at all. And that leads us to the second to last bullet point there, which is the bus rapid transit feasibility study on that same corridor that we completed about a month ago. And actually, the consultant just gave the Metropolitan Planning Organization policy Board a presentation on last Wednesday. And then last but not least, I should say, and the purpose of the bus Rapid Transit study was to really be able to compare apples -to - apples comparison between the passenger rail studies that had been completed and then the bus Rapid transit. So the idea is to look at both modes and give everyone a chance to absorb that and figure out maybe what the best mode would be. And then last but not least is the popup Metro light rail project that is being led by Greater Iowa City Inc. The pop-up Metro for those that might not know, is the concept of actually bringing a live study to Iowa City. The Rail Development corporation actually owns battery electric powered train cars. Some of you, I know, might have traveled out to Pennsylvania last summer to take a look at these. They exist, and the rail Development Corporation has given Greater Iowa City Inc a budget for actually bringing that here and testing those cars here in town. That includes the platforms, the ticketing stations, if we need them, the maintenance facility, and all those sorts of things. So the idea behind that isn't so much of a study that we have completed, but a live study that we could actually take advantage This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 7 of For tonight's purposes, I just want to talk about these last three, for the most part, really just honing in on, again, that passenger rail concept, the bus Rapid Transit, and then the popup Metro. To are really the three that we need to discuss tonight. So moving on into the findings of the actually studies themselves. We'll start with that last third phase of the three-part passenger rail conceptual study. Again, that would run roughly from Burlington Street, Iowa City up to Penn Street in North Liberty. It contemplated having seven different stops along the way. About a 25- minute end -to -end run time, 6:00 AM To 7:00 PM. Monday through Friday, and a service frequency of about 30 minutes. So if you were to stand at a rail platform, you would wait about 30 minutes at the most for another train to come by and pick you up. The estimated ridership was about 5,300 daily rides Monday through Friday. And just to add some context to that, Iowa City transit- all of Iowa City transits buses daily carry somewhere in the neighborhood of about 4,500 passengers give or take. So a really good ridership estimate was provided to us. The capital cost for the rail concept is about $60 million. That's actually been updated to 2020, four dollars. It's about $60 millions in capital costs to get it up and running with an annual operating cost of about six million dollars. The next is the Bus Rapid Transit study we just talked about, um, it- it runs roughly from Clinton Street or the Penna crest area in Iowa City up to Penn Street and North Liberty. Um, It contemplates having 18 different stops, um, versus the fewer for the rail. Um, a 27-minute end -to -end time, um, running basically 5:00 A.M. to 11:00 P.M., um, seven days a week, a little bit reduced, uh, service on the weekends. Uh, the surface frequency for the bus is about 15 minutes during peak periods and about 30 minutes during non -peak periods. And the estimated ridership for the bus is slightly lowered about 4,300 riders per day on average versus the 5,300 of the train. I should note that the ridership for the passenger rail study was done pre- COVID, uh, and this is post-COVID. So, uh, as you all know, uh, the pandemic really killed our - our ridership here in town and across the nation. So, uh, trying to kind of claw back out of that just a little bit, so the estimate, uh, is a little bit lower. The capital cost, uh, in 2024 $ for the Bus Rapid, uh, Transit is about $87,000,000 with an annual operating cost of about 2.4 million dollars. And then last but not least is the Pop-up Metro Light rail project, again, uh, being led by Greater Iowa City Inc. Uh, it runs roughly from Burlington Street and Iowa City up to Penn Street and North Liberty, uh, It contemplated having six stops, although that can be adjusted, uh, I had about a 30 minute end to end time running roughly from 6:00 A.M.-9:00 P.M. Monday through Friday. Uh, the surface frequency is just a little bit longer, uh, but I think it's probably. To be honest, somewhere in that same wheelhouse as the other two at about 45 minutes, uh, and of course, the estimated ridership is not available again because it's meant to sort of be a live study, uh, that actually runs and, of course, tries to attract riders. Uh, the capital cost for the Pop-up Metro is 5.7 million dollar, and this is a three-year lease, where the other two we would actually own. This is a three-year lease, uh, capital cost 5.7 million, like I mentioned with an annual operating cost, uh, of about 3.7 million. And then here's sort of the matrix, uh, of all three compared to each other. Uh, we already talked about the capital costs with the Bus Rapid Transit, uh, being the highest, uh, but it also has the lowest annual operations costs. Um, we did talk a little bit about the multi -use trail earlier, and those were, of course, contemplated as part of the passenger rail and bus Rapid transit studies as well, uh, not contemplated with the Pop-up Metro, but there's no reason why you also couldn't build a trail, uh, adjacent to the corridor and use Pop- up Metro as well. Uh, the first two are owned, of course, the Pop-up Metro is leased. Uh, in terms of vehicles, the passenger rail, uh, contemplates using three diesel train sets. Uh, the Bus Rapid Transit would need an additional seven, uh, battery -powered electric buses, and the Pop-up Metro would bring two, uh, electric battery electric train sets here for their, uh, service. We talked about the daily ridership already. Uh, for the Span of service, I would- I would just mention that these are all conceptual and, of course, be changed, um, these were just what was contemplated by the stakeholder groups at the time as we did the studies, um, and specifically with the Pop-up Metro, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 8 that was, um, that was a schedule that was used as a starting point and could certainly be adjusted. Uh, for surface frequencies, they're all right about in that same time frame, like we mentioned, and then travel time is all about the same, uh, number stops. Of course, there's quite a few more for the Bus Rapid Transit, uh, the reason being that a bus is much shorter and doesn't require nearly as long of platform, um, the platform is not as long and robust as it would be for a bus stop, uh, they're just as simple as any other bus stop in town, so able to stop more frequently. Teague: I have one question about that last slide. Ralston: Sure. Teague: So where we see the Pop-up Metro capital cost? Of course, this is kind of, uh, a pilot program. Does that change if we were to go that route? Does that capital cost? Ralston: So that- that capital cost Mayor or the 5.7 million in the Pop-up Metro line, there is the capital cost for the three-year lease. So that would be the upfront cost for the three-year lease, and then a 3.7 million dollar annual cost again, uh, for each of those three years. Teague: So after the three-year lease, do we know what the capital cost is? Will there be one'? Ralston: The capital cost - Teague: Or it would have already been encompassed. Ralston: I would imagine that the capital cost is already encompassed, but the annual cost will, uh, remain. I don't know if we know what happens after the three years. [inaudible] I think its used to prove the need for the passenger rail. Ralston: Sure, Right. So, um, you know, the question remains, I think. So if- if you want to re -up for an additional three years, for instance, you know, it's used as a live study, meant to sort of springboard you into something more permanent. If we wanted to use it for another three years or another one-year lease, I don't know that we know the answer to that, Mayor. Teague: Okay. Ralston :I would assume that we could, but I don't know what those costs would be. Moe: Can you - Ralston: That's a good question. Moe: Can you speak a little bit about the annual operating costs, how they compare between all three? Because I'm, um, not as familiar with the initial 2020 passenger rail, what was included in that? Specifically, one of the challenges of the rail is that it's close to where people want to be, but not exactly there. Was there any additional transportation in that operating budget to get people from, let's say Burlington Street to our bus interchange or from? Ralston: Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 9 Moe: Are they apples to apples across that annual operating budget? Ralston: I would say yes. So yes, it didn't contemplate adding any additional service like to Iowa City Transit, for instance, to actually get folks to that line that is just to operate the actual passenger rail. Moe: Okay. Ralston: Yep. That's a good question. Moe: And the Pop-up Metro remind me the annual operating costs. Uh, those- those were numbers provided by Railroad Development Corporation for what they think it would cost to have someone in Iowa City operate their train. Yeah, we don't know who that would be exactly, is that fair? Ralston: Yeah, that's correct. Moe: Okay. Ralston: Yeah. So I think with the Pop-up Metro concept, uh, they provide the maintenance, they provide the service, all those things, we would provide the actual employees to operate the train itself. Moe: Who's that we? Ralston: That's a good question, whether. Yeah. The larger community. So I mean, it could be Iowa City, it could be Coralville, uh, could be North Liberty, whoever would take on that. Moe: Could be a city or could be another entity. Ralston: Sure. Moe; Okay. Ralston: Yeah. Yeah, it'd be the hiring and the- the scheduling and that sort of thing. Yeah. Alter: I have a question. I do have a question, and I would just say I might be a little embarrassed to ask it. My understanding was that Pop-up Metro was not the- yes, it was a proof of concept or a pilot. But that this was also potentially a third solution, not that it was going to be simply a pilot to prove passenger rail. Am I- I was thinking it was a third solution. That's not the case. It's just a pilot to prove out that passenger rail indeed could come back roaring and be strong. Ralston: So in my mind, it's both, uh, but I might defer to Cady Gerlach with you. Alter: Yeah. No. I just- I was thinking they that this was like a viable third alternative that we'd try it. And if it worked great, then we kept using it. Ralston: Yeah. No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 10 Ralston: I mean, I think it's either. And I think that was to the mayor's question earlier that you know, if we wanted to use it for three years or another six -year contract, could we, and I don't know the answer, to be honest, uh, I think we could, uh, but I don't know that we've -we've really asked that question. Gerlach: So I don't have much of a voice can you hear me okay? Um, Cady Gerlach with GreaterIC, and Pop-up Metro approached us to, um, provide this three-year live study. This is the cost for the live study for that three years. The capital cost would be installing permanent stations like contemplated in passenger rail. Um, the other capital costs would be permanent rail improvements as needed just like in the passenger rail. That 5.7 would be the capital to get the pilot study going for those three years before you make the larger investment in permanent infrastructure. We've talked about the CRANDIC for 25 years. What Pop-up Metro provides is, um, a way to prove before you make those large investments if it's worthwhile. They also have offered that the cars would be for sale at the end of the three years. If it was decided, they would also continue the lease. Alter: Okay. You know, that- that helps because for some reason, I had it in my head that this was, like, something. Gerlach: Theoretical- and I- I would say it is a little bit different because it's a battery train car. Um, but they've also expressed that they could do different types of diesel power, different types of bio- diesel. Um, their goal is to keep short rail lines like we have with the crane deck which is one of the most unique assets in the region active. Alter: Okay. No, thank you about that. You've clarified everything. Gerlach: Thank you. Ralston: Any other questions before we move on? This brings us to the other considerations that we haven't just talked about. Uh, you know, clearly this list isn't exhaustive. Uh, we could add, you know, 10 or 20 different considerations to this, but these are just some things I do think we want to keep in mind. Um, the first is that trains may have more appeal than buses. Um, in doing some of my own research, it looks as though trains generally are a little bit sexier than a bus, uh, might attract more folks. Um, and that's just a key consideration, I think, we have to keep in the back of our minds. Uh, the second is that bus rapid transit routes can adapt to changes in termini and tailored to demand. So this is something that you cannot do with a train is tailor it easily to demand. Uh, whether it's the Pop-up Metro or the permanent solution, we have either two train sets or three train sets, uh, and it's going to be difficult to acquire more. Um, also, they can't come off the rails, right, so to speak. So, um, whereas, if we have seven different electric buses that would be utilized to run the service, you can add a bus if you have more passengers, you can remove a bus, if you need to, um, and also the buses can leave the fixed way, right? So basically what we're doing is taking out the tracks, putting in a paved surface and if we want that vehicle to actually leave the- the paved surface and go pick up someone at a new manufacturing facility or a new hospital, for instance, whatever it might be, uh, we can tailor it to that demand. And that's just something that a- a train doesn't quite have that flexibility to do. You could certainly link up with other, uh, different, uh, bus systems to provide that service, but, you obviously can't do it directly. Um, another consideration, I think, is that we have local knowledge of bus operations, maintenance, and facilities. You know, we've got three different very successful transit agencies here, uh, whether it be Iowa City Transit, Coralville Transit, or University of Iowa Cam bus. Um, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 11 we know bus operations, we know how to maintain buses, and we know the facilities. Uh, we are not experts, to my knowledge, in passenger rail. So I think that just adds a little bit more complexity to things. Um, we do need to consider whether we need a new or consolidated transit agency. Um, I can see a- a system by which if we start a bus rapid transit, uh, Iowa City, for instance, could purchase those additional seven buses and operate it, uh, in-house. You know, I don't know if that's possible, but that's something that I can at least foresee happening. Um, with a passenger rail service, I don't know that we know enough about passenger rail to take that on in- house. So I think that's where we might have to look into a- a different agency to run that kind of system. Uh, our considerations for battery electric vehicles versus traditional diesel vehicles, whether it be climate action, maintenance, longevity, those types of questions, lease versus purchase considerations, of course, whether it's Pop-up Metro versus a more, uh, permanent solution. Um, but the Pop-up Metro is faster for implementation and removal. I mean, that's the - that's the key component of the Pop-up Metro like Katie was just discussing, it's meant to be a proof of concept. Um, we don't have to acquire vehicles. We don't have to wait for that acquisition. We don't even have to pay for those vehicles outright. Um, just that original or the initial capital cost, and then, of course, the ongoing annual investment. Uh, and then lastly, uh, bus rapid transit requires removal of tracks and potential for regulatory snags. Um, it's much easier, uh, to- to change from freight rail to passenger rail than it is to actually remove tracks altogether. Uh, it can be done, but that kicks in a whole new set of standards with rail abandonment and some other things with the Surface Transportation Board, uh, which is the governing body that would- would be regulating this. But just to keep that in mind as well, you know, removing the tracks, uh, is going to be somewhat difficult, and- and there's some regulatory snags that we may hit. Uh, and then in terms of next steps, um, you know, I think first and foremost, uh, the community at large needs to determine a preferred approach to transit on the CRANDIC corridor. You know, is it- are we leaning towards more of a bus system or more of a rail system? Uh, I personally find it difficult to fathom that we would go from a bus to a rail and then maybe back to a bus or a rail to a bus and back to a rail. So it seems to me that we're going to have to sort of choose the direction we want to go and probably stick with that because otherwise there's certainly going to be some throw -away costs. Um, I think we'll need to coordinate with CRANDIC on the timing approach to railroad abandonment. So if we go down- if we go the direction of bus rapid transit, I certainly think we're going to need to start that coordination early. Uh, but you could also say the same is true for just transitioning from freight rail to passenger rail. Uh, I think a regional consensus on the agency to operate the service, this is a big one that's already come up tonight. Uh, and then, of course, identifying preferred funding sources for operating costs. Um, you know, operating costs are something that you all understand are a little bit more difficult sometimes than capital costs because they are in perpetuity, um, and grant funds typically don't cover things for operations. Uh, and then lastly, of course, is to prepare grant applications to advance design and construction. That is something that grants typically cover. So just some- some key considerations there. Again, this list could be three or four times as long very easily, but just so things that I think we all wanna keep in the back of our minds at lease initially. Uh, with that, that's about 500 or so pages of studies that I've tried to consolidate in about 15 minutes. Uh, but I'm happy to try and answer any questions you might have. And I know Katie Gerlach and Nancy Byrd also from Greater Iowa City Inc. here, so. Moe: Well, first of all, thank you very much. Um, this is exactly what I was hungry to see was a comparison. Um, can you talk a little bit more about the, uh, with abandonment, it seems as though the Transit Authority would become the owner of the line. With using the CRANDIC rail line, um, which is a private company, is- how does that work? Do you enter into a long-term agreement for the use of the tracks? Like, do we- could they just kick us off at some point? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 12 Ralston: Yeah. So there's a few different ways to do that, and I'm- I'll be the first to say I'm not an expert. Uh, it seems that very few people are because it's kind of a- a- it's a unique thing. Um, you know, for rails to trails, it's a little more easy to understand, and it's usually sort of like a 99-year lease type situation where if you can actually take the tracks out and put in a recreational trail, um, I think it's good for a period of time, and it's usually kind of a lease arrangement. Um, when it comes to actually moving them for, uh, bus rapid transit system, um, it's- it's going to have to be permanent. And I think part of the rail abandonment process is looking at if- I think there's a - there's a line in there somewhere that if it's still for, uh, a transit purpose, that it's allowed. Uh, so I think if we moved sort of- sort of through that abandonment process for a bus rapid transit, my guess is that we would either lease or own that property just depending on what our- our agreement would be with CRANDIC. I think it could be either way. If that made sense. Moe: It did. But with Pop-up Metro, we would just lease the tracks as they are. Ralston: Yeah, with Pop-up Metro, there's no abandonment. Obviously, the tracks are still there. There's some improvements that have to be made. Like Katie mentioned, that's part of that, uh, upfront capital cost. Um, but with Pop-up Metro, it's really just a matter of getting the- separating the freight from the passenger rail for safety reasons. So it's- it's hard to operate freight and passenger on the same line. I mean, clearly we do it with Amtrak and so on, but, um, the easiest way to do that is CRANDIC will tell you is that they would just cease freight operations on the line altogether and essentially just cut that off, say north of North Liberty. Then, uh, for the safety benefits or to get through those safety regulations, it's just passenger rail. And they said that is what they would do if we move forward with that. At least that would be their hope is they could do that. Right now, uh, I believe I'm correct in saying that the only thing they do south of essentially are- South of Penn Street is that they go to Stutzmans occasionally down in Hills. And they said they could likely work out an agreement with Stutzmans, put that on trucks instead of a train. Yeah. Teague: With that being said, um, Burlington Street to Penn Street as what's being proposed, is- is that for both the Bus Rapid Transit and pop-up? Ralston: Yeah. Teague: Okay. That's correct. And then, is there any op- and there's eight wait, six stops for pop-up Metro but the thought is there could be additional stops in the future. Ralston: Yeah- yeah, it's all to be negotiated. Yep. Teague: And then talking about Hills, um, potentially, would there be future considerations, I guess, for the bus Rapid transit, uh, to go south still? Ralston: Yeah, I think there certainly could be. Um, I think we'll run into the same issue probably that we had with going to the Eastern Iowa Airport, even with the rail was just the cost just become so exorbitant for the- the distance you have to travel, that it would be unlikely that we'd be able to maybe justified to go to Hills. Um, in my mind, Myer's it's probably more justifiable to go north towards the Eastern Iowa Airport, and then ultimately to Cedar Rapids. But sure- sure, you certainly could. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 13 Teague: I wasn't thinking hills specifically, but more, um, closer to the Hy-Vee, you know, Highway One. Ralston: Yeah. That is again. Yeah. Teague: Okay. Ralston: Yeah. And the the- reason that- we had contemplated that before in the passenger rail studies. The reason we ended up saying we would likely stop at Burlington Street is once you get south of Burlington, there's a lot more crossings. You had some- I don't quote me, but you had something like three or four crossings for a matter of like a quarter mile and all those crossings come with a big price tag. So it was thought originally, we'll just stop at Burlington Street, you know, and cut those costs out. But certainly you're good. Yeah, that's a great question. Moe: What are the next steps, um, in identifying the entity at the city or other entities, that would be a joint entity to- to move anything forward here? It seems like that's maybe a- a challenging thing to figure out is having not just Iowa City, but all the other governments in the University of Iowa participating, who's the right organization to- to- to coordinate that? Ralston: Right. Teague: And if you can add to that at the- in your answer, the capital cost, you know, how are we- where are the funds going to come from? Um, and if grants are- do we know what grants are out there? Um, and then that annual operation cost, which is really within his answer or question as well. Ralston: Yeah, so- so for the capital part, um, I think clearly for any of the three, and including pop-up Metro, there are grants that we can go after to help with those capital costs, um, and maybe the operations costs, but less likely. Um but certainly, I think no matter what direction we move, we'll want to go after as many grants as we can. And in each of the studies, uh, the bus rapid transit and the passenger rail, they go into depth about what we could actually try and apply for. um, so that's in the studies themselves. Um, as far as who would operate the system, I think uh, you know, the Pop-up Metro might be sort of an easier one to tackle just because it may be short-lived, um, and it may be that Iowa City Transit or some other authority can take that another wing for a year or two and say, yeah, sure, we can do this. Uh, long term, I think is the- the tough question is who would do that. And I honestly don't know the answer to that. Um, it could, you know, bus rapid transit, I mentioned earlier, to me is an easier one again, because we do have successful agencies, uh, and without trying to oversimplify it, I mean, you're- you're buying seven buses, and you're essentially running a new route. So it seems to me that and that gross oversimplification that, you know, that's something that maybe, uh, an existing service could actually provide or ex- existing organization could provide that service. Um, you know, when it gets- into passenger rail, that just seems a lot more difficult to me. And it seems like, at that point, you may need to have a transit authority or at least another trans agency that would actually run it. Um, and the other part to all this too, and it's discussed in some of the- the study is that, uh, you can actually create a transit authority, which then is a taxing entity. My understanding is we can't do that yet because we don't have a big enough population. We would actually have to change the state law, um, but that's certainly something that's also discussed in, uh, some of the study as well. So sorry, I don't have a good answer for that one. Harmsen: One thing I wonder about looking at all these three together, and that don't necessarily maybe something for future consideration, maybe not an answer you would have off the top of your This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 14 head. But as we take a look at the bus rapid transit and the capital cost of 87.4 million in order to use the Crandi right of way, which would have the, you know, advantage of making, you know, the end, end travel time of 27 minutes. I just would wonder, if we- if we continue to look at that and we would have to create some sort of an entity that could take that on if we wouldn't be better served with just doing an express line on existing roadways that might take five minutes longer, um, without the $90 million, uh, capital cost. I mean, you know, just as as- I look at that, I- I have to wonder if that wouldn't be, um, you know, and not to say that that's what I'm advocating for. You know, I got to think that out because, you know, a little bit further, but- but just as kind of that question, too, like, does the desire to use that right of way, you know, is that the cost -benefit analysis of that for the few minutes it might get from that a route that runs basically that same thing? Ralston: Yeah. Harmsen: Just a thought. Ralston: Yeah. No, it's a good thought. Um, and I don't have an answer for that, obviously, but in the study, it does talk about it separates out new riders as well. So I'd have to dig into there, but it does separate out actual choice riders for riders that need the service. And then it also talks about in the modeling, um, how many they actually predict will be new riders, which, of course, uh, you may be able to still capture with like an express route, but maybe not. Maybe it's- Harmsen: Sure. Ralston: -this bus ravid transit or, uh, bus line, again, is a sexier option that attracts more people, so hard to tease that out. Harmsen: Right. Ralston: But- but they do talk about that in the modeling. Harmsen: And as we move a little bit closer to- I know we've got a lot of steps, and there's a lot of in, you know, a lot of different groups that have to come to the table and agree. But one of the things too that I'd be interested to see as we get closer to having to make a decision is, and I'm sure there's probably part of these studies, um, you know, is the- the, uh, environmental, uh, savings impact as well. So, you know, versus diesel versus the electronic buses versus the electronic pop-up Metro. Um, and then, you know, as we get you know, ridership sorts of things, like, what do we think that's going to save us in our carbon emission? And to me, that's going to be one of the things, and I'm sure others as well that I'll- that I'll be, you know, kind of looking as- as we get further on this, it's about several steps down the road, but just a sort of- just sort of thinking out loud about things that will be very important to me anyway. Ralston: Yeah, no, I agree. And I think while some of those things aren't included in the studies themselves, because they do give us ridership and because they do give us some of those numbers we need, I think we can now sort of back into some of those things, right, which have different staff members start to tease some of those things out, which will be helpful. Bergus: And not just from an emissions standpoint, but I know in the past, as we've talked about using that CRANDIC right of way, it's because it is actually a good route that connects where roads This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 15 can't necessarily expand, right? And so as traffic increases on highway 965, Ranshaw Way, you know, 380, uh, it isn't a place to actually put people traveling that same corridor and increased volume significantly without having to, you know, increase the roadway volume or traffic congestion. So I think there's quality of life and environmental impact from reducing congestion as well as just the- the mode itself. Harmsen: Sure- sure. And all of that, I think it's very important to weigh and then weigh that against, you know, the cost of the permanent change if that would be, you know, the future route, which I'm not saying, again, that I'm advocating for. Uh, I think they're all interesting, um. Teague: Do you think we can get at 87.4 million through grants? Ralston: I think we could probably get a large part through grants. So for a period of time, I don't know about all of it though, May. Teague: Okay. Fruin: It wouldn't be uncommon to see some sort of local match required, um, 8020, 9010, 7030. Usually, those are the types of numbers we would see with transportation grants in general. I don't know if you see different with anything you've looked at with Ray. Ralston: I think it'd be the same. Yeah. Harmsen: And you are planning this is a presentation you're actually going to be sharing. I'm just going back to the MPO meeting last week when you had said you'd be doing a similar kind of meeting with some of the other entities, Coralville, North Liberty, the University. And so I imagine you'll be kind of this process of maybe getting some early feedback to see if anybody's really strongly for or against any of these because - Ralston: Yeah, So my plan was to try and get on the joint entities meeting in January, which I think is being hosted by the county, and whether I, you know, marry this with the actual Bus Rapid Transit study itself information that you all got at the board meeting last week. This is probably more helpful, to be honest, I think for decision -makers like yourselves. But yeah, so I plan to go and give a similar presentation, uh, at the joint entities meeting in January and kind of just keep getting that information out, and of course, I'd be happy to do it for anybody else that asked as well. Harmsen: Thank you. Teague: Any other questions by counsel? Thank you. Ralston: Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 16 6. Council Updates on Assigned Boards, Commissions, and Committees Teague: Yes, I appreciate you. All right. So what we're going to do is, we're gonna switch, uh, skip down to item number 6 and give some quick updates. And then we'll recess our work session and come back after our formal meeting to discuss number 5. So we're going to move on to item number 6. Council updates on assigned boards commissions, and committees. Moe: Paratransit, um, Advisory Committee met today. Um, and just as a reminder, um, there was a same - day service funded through ARPA that expanded coverage to people beyond those who might not have had all of the paperwork in to participate. Uh, that does expire in December- on December 6th this year. So, uh, there will be change in service. Of course, will continue to be a service - SEATS will continue to provide service, but, um, it's less funding and a fewer people served. So anyway, they do have a new sort of- a new app or system, um, that apparently has been a real big benefit to people. It helps both partner agencies schedule on behalf of people as well as it helps people know when the buses are coming. Um, and they also just got back some survey information that showed that people really do appreciate and use this service a lot. Um, and I was happy to see that, you know, their handful of comments or criticisms they got. They're definitely, um, addressing them as they can. So any additional information? I'd be happy to share. Um, but just I think it's really important to know that say they do 500 and 550 trips each weekday. Um, that might change with the loss of ARPA funding. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 17 5. Council Vacancy Discussion [Continued from 11/04/20241 Teague: Hearing no other updates, we are going to take a recess from our work session. But we'll be back at 6:00 PM for our formal meeting, and then after our formal meeting, return to the work session. This is the City of Iowa City work session. Uh, we're returning from a recess on November 19th, 2024, and we are at item number 5, which is council vacancy discussion. And I'm going to invite, uh, Eric just to kind of lead us off in this discussion. Goers: Thank you, Mary. So there were a couple of questions you left for me at the last meeting. Um, I'm batting one for two, uh, on answers for those. Uh, the first one was, uh, when does a 60-day clock start ticking? If we give notice ahead of the effective date of Councilor Dunn's resignation, can that clock start then, or do we need to wait until the actual vacancy occurs on January 1 st for that clock to start ticking? Um, I've been working with the county auditor's office, the County Attorney's Office, and the Secretary of State's Office. Uh, there has been, um, some difficulty in reaching consensus, uh, on that question. I put a formal request to the Secretary of State's website, uh, a week ago, and I'm looking forward to hearing their response. Um, on the positive side, uh, I did receive confirmation on the signature requirement. That was the second question you folks had for me, how many signatures would be required, uh, for a petition to, uh, demand a special election if the Council were to decide to appoint? Originally, I was thinking that the number would be higher than last time. That was because the turnout, uh, for the 2023 city council election was higher than the 2021 city council election. Uh, I turned out to be wrong. Uh, but here's why. The turnout was in fact higher, but, of course, it's 10% of the voters who voted in, uh, for this office last time. Well, this office, in this case, is District C, because that is Councilor Dunn's position, District C. No at large, not District A. Um, and so, for example, there were 8,973 votes cast in the District A election. You may recall that that was a contested election. There were only 7,181 votes cast in the District C election, which was on opposed. Uh, so 10% of that number is 719. That is the number of signatures, and I did receive confirmation from that from the county auditor's office this afternoon. That would be the number of signatures required to force a special election should the council decide to appoint. Moe: And is that of all citizens in Iowa City or of the District C residents? Goers: It is our opinion that it would be anyone within Iowa City. Moe: Okay. Goers: Of course, you know, because it's anyone within Iowa City can vote for the District C representative. Moe: Okay. Goers: I'm happy to answer any other questions, uh, you folks may have if I can. Bergus: I think just for the public, you said anyone in the city can vote for the District C seat, except in the primary, which will still be in effect - Goers: That's right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 18 Bergus: -at the time of this election, if it happens before. I mean, we don't- any change to the charter would not be happening prior to this election. Correct? Goers: I assume not. That could I'm offering a caveat here because that would depend in part, uh, on the timing, uh, from you folks. For example, last, uh, meeting when we were talking about this, uh, I explained that if you go 60 days without making an appointment, then by law, it becomes a special election. We need to give at least 60 days for that, and before you know it, we're in May, um, I suspect that the, uh, Charter Review Commission will be bringing forth their recommendations to you before then, long before then, probably. Um, at present, they're not recommending any changes for what it's worth, uh, to the district election process. But of course, the council, um, could make their own changes pursuant to the current state of the charter. But I don't want to get too far into that. We haven't noticed up that discussion. Teague: So curious to know if there was a primary and then a regular general or whatever we were. Goers: Primary in general, that's right. Teague: Yeah. Election. What is the latest date that we can have the general election? Goers: Uh, again, well, it would be around May 1st. That is, you would take the maximum amount of time, uh, before making a decision 60 days or just to let the 60 days expire, and then, um, you know, by law, it just becomes automatic. Uh, and then it's the soonest practicable date, again, for fresher from last time as soon as possible. Of course, it has to be on a Tuesday, so it wouldn't be exactly 60 days probably. Uh, and we have to give at least 60 days' notice. So it would be somewhere around 60 days after March 1 st. So that's why I'm saying around May 1 st. It would probably several days after May 1 st. But that's be within about a week, I would guess of May 1 st between May 1 st and May 7th or something like that. Harmsen: So that's the latest possible. Goers: Right. Harmsen: The earliest then would be around March 1st. Goers: Well, the earliest again is tied up. Harmsen: On what you get answered Goers: Yes. That's right. Depending on the final answer I get from the Secretary of State's Office about that. Teague: So I just want to state some facts a little loosely. Um, so there was a special election, which I was on the ballot in 2018. And there was two elections. One was the primary in September, and then the October 1. I'll even go to the October 1, where there was 9% of voters that came out. Um, that participated in that, that was about 4,000 votes. And then I just want to do a little, um, again, comparison as to what happened this year, um, even though we're a city, and we're not a county. But if we look at what the county votes were in June, um, it was 8%, um, of registered voters that had come out, which was 9,000 votes. Now, this November, um, I'll just say it was about 52,000 votes that actually happened. And so there is low turnout, um, that I think we should be This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 19 considering, um, in this equation when we're making our decision. Otherwise, I- I am all about, you know, democracy and make sure folks get their right to vote. Again, I'll say, um, you know, being elected by colleagues, um, is all good and- all good and respected. Um, but I feel like Iowa City people want to, you know, make their votes so for their merit, not totally apples to apples comparison. So there- there are arguments made for both sides and I think this Council just has to make a determination. If we're looking at a special election that has both a primary and a general, we're going to talk about, um, $100,000. And, um, it is what it is, the cost of democracy, I understand that, but I just wanted to put those figures out there just for the- just for people to be aware of, not looking for a debate on it at all. But you can comment if you want. Alter: You know, I just- I. Teague: I'm not trying- I'm not- I'm not making a case. Alter: Okay. Teague: I am not making a case, I just wanted to state the figures. Alter: So in that regard, following up on- on cost, um, a question that I have is um, how do I put it, you might have to circle back to me. Um, is the cost of a seat- I guess I'm thinking of an election, like, if this is like a menu, right? At the general, is it essentially Ala cart, you pay per seat vacancy? Goers: I'm sorry, I'm not sure. Alter: Say- say- say we have, um- say there's a special election, right? We've paid for it now, right? Um, I'm not gonna have a good analogy to this. Teague: I- I think- I think I hear you. Yeah. Alter: What I wanna know is that in the general in November, is it all one price or is it contingent upon how many slots there are or- or how many people are running or how many seats there are? Goers: It certainly- it certainly does not depend on how many people are running. Alter: No, I have not spoken of that. Goers: Now, to some extent i- in that, uh, if there are three or more candidates then a primary would be required so that's half the cost. If there are only two, then no primary would be held. Alter: And I -I misspoke. Goers: Okay. Alter: What I meant is how many seats. Goers: Right. Alter: So if there's coming up in November of next year, there will be three seats available, right? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 20 Goers: I'm not sure. I'm sorry. Alter: Is the payment for that, is it per seat, or is it the cost is just it costs us much to stand up? Goers: Well, it- let me respond in a couple of ways. First, a- as I discussed earlier, I think the latest we can hold this election is going to be in the first- if there is a special election would be in the first week or so of May. We cannot drag this out to November. Alter: No, no, no, no, no. I'm just- I'm trying to think. Bergus: Are you talking about if there would be, like, a cost savings if we have. Alter: Yes. Bergus: A seat filled sooner versus at the general? Alter: Essentially- essentially. I - Teague: I think what I heard is. Teague: Like our share of the November election. Alter: Right, yes. Teague: I think what I heard was if there is- er, we already had three seats up automatically. If there was a fourth seat to be added, is there an additional cost that the Council would- that the city would have to pay because we no longer have three seats, but it would be four seats on the ballot in November? Alter: Because we would have to run that. If we were to appoint, then it has to- then they have to run again in November. Thank you all for stitching that together for me. Goers: Yes. Alter: Thank you. That's exacts, yes. Goers: And after all that, I don't have an answer. I have not asked that question. Although I will say this, when the county auditor's office was describing the cost associated with holding a special election, they made it clear it was about paying excess staff and, you know, hauling stuff to the various polling places and so forth. And, of course, there would be no marginal costs for that at a general election where they're already doing all that. Alter: Right, okay. Goers: So I suspect the answer to your question is, yes, there will be. Alter: So it's like a buffet, not ala cart, Goers: Right. The all you can eat is buffet, the city could benefit from. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 21 Alter: But thank you- thank you for. Goers: Sure. Bergus: I want to hear Kellie's contribution to this because she moved her microphone. Alter: Yes, please. Grace: I believe it's based on the number of polling places. Alter: Okay. Grace: Because I believe what I'm recalling. So, I mean, it's generally the same amount. Alter: Okay. Teague: Because one additional seat would not require that unless we're having, um, yeah. Goers: Yeah, no matter how many candidates are on the ballot, it's, you know, there's no additional staffing require, no additional polling places required. Harmsen: Just extra $8 in ink on the ballot. Moe: I can- I can just say I've been sort of soliciting all of my friends and saying, what do you think about this? And I have got completely mixed results from everybody. I think everyone understands the math. Like, it costs money. Nobody wants to spend the money, but there is value in having the special elections. So, um, if it was free, it'd be an easy choice, but it's not- but at the same time, I'm kind of sticking with what I said last time. I think we should do the special, um, and I think waiting as late as possible for the purposes of getting better engagement is my gut reaction as towards how we get better re- better interaction with the election is- is pushing it to that springtime as opposed to the cold of winter, but that's just a gut feeling. I don't have any data to back that up. Bergus: I would- so just to respond to that, I've been thinking ab- about that piece of it and the conversation we had about weather and that type of thing, I- I think- so just like looking at my calendar between now and, you know, the end of the year, there is still a lot going on. There is a lot that- that people can do, and I realize the person campaigning is not going to be necessarily between now and the end of the year. But just, I think there are winter events. They're different than those that happen in the spring or the summer. But I think just for the sake of having a full council, that we should have the special election and do it as soon as we're able. And I think if people want to, you know, have their own events, if they want to knock doors, I think they're going to do that whether it's in, you know, February or April. Harmsen: I've been going back and forth on that too, and I haven't really reached a decision, but yeah, that kind of the- there's also the cost benefit to us as a body trying to make decisions for the city. Bergus: Yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 22 Harmsen: It does it make sense to get somebody on early because- because- because we're doing the budget at that time, right? So does it make sense to get somebody on sooner, you know, the cost to the, you know, dragging it- its, back and forth. Like is it better to have a little more time for people who have time to think about it and have a campaign versus, you know, we have this still requirement of four yes votes to pass something with- with- so it become, you know, with only six people, becomes a little bit of a weirder situation. And that's, I mean, not the end of the world, but it might not be the most desirable. So yeah, I'm going back and forth in that too. So it sounds like we have to make two decisions; yes, no, and if yes, when? Alter: Well, and- and I was the- a proponent along with Mayor Pro Tem to say, why don't we wait and so that it could be better weather, but I was thinking about it in the interim and the- the danger with that actually is that there are some people who are very plugged in to what we're doing, into these conversations or have networks with us or friends and would know that the intention is a special without us declaring it. Which means there could be can- people who would be interested but they haven't gotten their kitchen cabinet together, they haven't started raising money yet, and they would be at a disadvantage because they're not plugged in in the same way that perhaps some candidates might be. So that's something that I kind of grappled with saying, well, I think it's a matter of we- we decide and the- maybe it's that we get to find out when that clock starts ticking. Um, but so that then everybody has a level playing field to say, ah, yes, there is going to be a special election or no- whatever, or an appointment, but I'm leaning for special election, so that everyone can say, okay, well, what do I need to do? I need to raise some money. I need to do this so that it isn't something that some people know about and are like, ah. And then others find out about it in the paper to say, oh, the official thing is gone, and they're, you know, a month and a half behind in terms of what they need to do. Harmsen: And I think part of the corrective is the fact that we're talking about this in open session and they might see some, you know, probably some indication of what, you know, what we're thinking that might be in the paper, you know, maybe tomorrow or this week. But what I mean, I'm sure this is going to be a story of interest. And so it's not like, you know, I mean, we're doing this in open session. So that- that's. Alter: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I just think that when we talk but there's some people who are very plugged in, and there are some people who are not- who are interested. Salih: We will receive email, we will be asking about that. Alter: Yeah. Salih: So I think, uh, you know, and people, like, also just tabs and I, like, some people, ah, reach at me and say, hey, when that's going to happen? So I think the sooner it's better just to announce it, and- and I also I still with special election. Teague: So it sounds like, um - Moe: Can- can I ask one question about like how this works? I- I- I responded to someone, I hope correctly, that we can't officially act until the seat is vacant. Like, we can make all of our intentions known, we can discuss it, but we can't call that election or start the appointment process until the seat is vacant. Is that accurate? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 23 Goers: Well, you see, that's what we. Alter: That's the question. Bergus: That's what we're waiting on. Goers: You- well, you certainly can't, uh, appoint the person until but you can, I think, decide that you're going to do it before. Salih: yes Goers: Before then. I'm trying to remember when Council, I mean, Counselor- I'm trying to remember when he was appointed. Um. Teague: January. Bergus: January was the first. Salih: January of first. Goers: Yeah. My memory is that the council decided well in advance of that point that you were going to appoint and- and did so. Teague: Yeah, we had obligations. Salih: When you have obligations and everything. Teague: Yes, that's right. Goers: And he was sworn in, uh, the council made a decision to appoint Councilor Dunn and he was sworn in and went and sat down and, you know, jumped right in. Um, so the other thing I'll mention in so far as timing, a lot of your discussion that has been about timing, is that the deadline for candidates to file for- for their candidacy is 53 days before, eh, the general election. Now, remember that at minimum, you only need to give 60 days. So, in theory, you could only have seven days for folks to go out and collect, you know, 180 so signatures or whatever it is. So what my recommendation would be is either Council decide, uh, informally, uh, this evening such that I can bring, you know, one resolution back to you on December 10th, or at- at the latest that, you know, you make that decision on the 10th so that if you decide to have a special election, then people can start kind of gathering signatures. Teague: I- if- is it 85- is it a span 69 or 85 days? Goers: I'm not sure what. Teague: No. So the primary election from your memo. Goers: It's- so it's at least 60 days notice for the general. The primary is exactly f- 28 days before the general. So 32 days to- at- at least 32 days to the primary, and then exactly 28 days from the primary to the general, if that makes sense? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 24 Teague: Yes. Goers: Yeah. Salih: And also, that will bring me, like, oh yeah, questions. If- if like more than three people run, were gonna have primary? Goers: That's right. Three or more. Salih: Yeah. Like three or more? Goers: Right. Salih: And if that happened, how? It still have to be also 28 days before the. Goers: The primary by law has to be exactly 28 days before the general election. Salih: Okay. Teague: I think Councilor Moe was asking the question, does the seat have to be vacated before we can determine the date? Bergus: No. I don't think. Goers: The date of the special election? Teague: Yes. Goers: Well, see, that's- yeah, I'm not sure. That's what we're struggling with because last time two years ago, we, you know, brought date that had been approved by the county auditors office that were in January and February. Well, obviously, you know, February, uh, general election date is not 60 days from January 1 st, and so they accepted or at least we're prepared to accept notice before the January 1st vacancy actually took place. And the vacancy was on January 1st last time with Counselor Weiner, just like this time with Councilor Dunn. So I- I think the answer to that question will necessarily depend on the answer I ultimately get from the Secretary of State. Teague: So it does sound like Council is going to do a special election and what we will probably do is on our December meeting, on our December 1 Oth meeting, actually have voting on that if we are allowed to. Goers: Yeah. Teague: And then we'll have optional dates, there'll be one in the resolution, of course, but there'll be optional dates with the earliest one in the resolution, projected out, you know, given all the time frames. And then the council at that moment, can change, you know, just do the edit if- of the dates is really what it would be. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 25 Goers: Yeah. And- and editing probably not by a whole lot, because again, it's the earliest practicable date. So it's got to be at least 60 days, but not, you know, 120 days or so. Teague: Correct. Goers: Yeah. Teague: Correct. So I think There was a little bit of a debate on, you know, do we wait longer, um, for the good reasons that I think Mayor Pro Tem and Councilor Auto talked about. And then it is, we need to just get it out there and get someone in the, you know, in the seat in, you know, the chips fall where they may. So we'll do the earliest dates possible given everything and then the council can determine if they want to change the date, but we'll have that on December 1 Oth. So for those that are listening and our, uh, wonderful folks that kind of disseminate information through the media outlets, the Council will be doing an appointment for, uh, Councilor Dunn seat. Bergus: No. Alter: No. Teague: Not appointment, special election- special election. Bergus: Are you listening? Teague: Special election. Harmsen: It's been a long few hours. Teague: For Councilor Dunn Seat. All right. [OVERLAPPING CHATTER] Teague: I wasn't trying to slip one off on you. Salih: At least- at least people saying that it will be a special election. They will be just a start.Yeah. Like doing their campaigns. Bergus: Yeah. Teague: All right. Anything else to add to this discussion? Hearing nothing, we are adjourned. Enjoy the rest of the evening. Thank you. Salih: No, I want to ask something. Teague: Oh. Salih: You know, I know that Global Tie reach out to us. They need, like, be there to meet their visitors on the 10 December and I want to make sure we have only three- I'm interesting, but I- I want to know who else- What was that? Will join. Global Tie. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024 Page 26 Teague: So yeah, we'll- Bergus: Visitors from Ethiopia? Salih: Yeah, Visitor from Ethiopia. And the- they need like- because they want to talk about, like, how things work now. Teague: So maybe what we can do is maybe, um, Kellie, can you send that- that email to all of Council and see who's interested? Salih: Yes. Teague: Thank you. Salih: Okay. Teague: Thanks for bringing that up. All right. Salih: Thank you. Teague: We're adjourned. Thank you. Salih: Okay, we're adjourned. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 19, 2024