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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-10-05 TranscriptionOctober 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Council Present: Bailey, Champion, Correia, Hayek, Wilburn Council Absent: O'Donnell, Wright Staff: Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Ford Others Present: Shipley - UISG Agenda Items: Page 1 Bailey/ ...Mike O'Donnell, there's a family emergency, and Mike Wright is not...his allergies have knocked him out so neither (mumbled) obviously aren't going to make it tonight so let's get started. Um, agenda items are first. Karr/Madame Mayor? Just to note, the Consent calendar will be amended to delete Items 4.e.8 and 9, which are liquor license information regarding, uh (mumbled). They've withdrawn their application so... Bailey/ 4.e.8 and... Karr/ 8 and 9. Just adopt it as amended. Bailey/ Okay. Okay, any other agenda items? ITEM 7. INSTITUTING PROCEEDINGS TO TAKE ADDITIONAL ACTION FOR THE AUTHORIZATION OF A LOAN AGREEMENT AND THE ISSUANCE OF NOT TO EXCEED $10,000,000 PARKING SYSTEM REVENUE REFUNDING CAPITAL LOAN NOTES, SERIES 2009F. Hayek/ Can I get some background on number 7? Parking system, uh (mumbled) Helling/ Oh, that's... Hayek/ Is this just a re-fi essentially? Helling/ Yes. Yeah, and that's (both talking) Bailey/ That's what we set the public hearing for last week, and Ross made a comment about (several talking) yeah it is. Okay, any other agenda items? Okay, moving on. Property taxes for buyout properties...Eleanor? Property Taxes for Buyout Properties (IP2 of 10/1): Dilkes/ Well, I think, um, the memo is pretty self-explanatory, um, the properties that we purchased through the HMGP buyout, um, the way the State law works is if we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 2 acquire...if the City acquires property mid-tax year, the property does not go off the rolls till the end of the tax year. That's why we tried to close on as many properties before, um, the end of June as we could so we wouldn't incur that, uh, tax liability. The...the ones that we closed on since July lst...of this year, we collected the prorated taxes from the property owner, um, and it will be the City's obligation to pay, well, we'll be paying the entire tax bill, but we will have to be funded...the portion of the taxes from the closing date through the end of the year. Staff estimates that that's about $36,000 so we just need your direction on whether to pay that or not, um, as I noted in the memo, um, the statute is kind of strange. It...it says it's a token tax liability, um, and...unlike other properties, City property can't be sold at tax sale. Um, and we shall pay it, but if we don't pay it, the County shall abate it, so...I've talked to the County Attorney's office and I think, um, they will abate them administratively, um, if...if the Council chooses not to pay them, but...so we just need that direction from you all. Bailey/ Did we hear any concerns from the County or the School District after we had that joint meeting and talked about this? Dilkes/ No. Uh-huh. Champion/ And, does that come out of our General Fund or does that come out of, uh, FEMA money that we used to buy with? Dilkes/ Well, that's the problem is we have...we have...attempted to get FEMA to cover those taxes, um, because it's just a function of the State law and that they just...that's not an item that they will cover, um, so it would come out of, I assume, our general... Helling/ Right. Correia/ What amount of that $37,000 is money that would be owed to Iowa City? (mumbled) Dilkes/ About 40%. Helling/ Yeah, a little over 40%, if it hasn't been calculated, and I assumed the... Dilkes/ It's the total tax. Helling/ Total, all right. So about...a little under 60% would...would actually be paid to the School District and the County, which would not...if we don't pay. Dilkes/ Right. Hayek/ Coralville went down this road recently and opted to pay the tax. Bailey/ Uh-huh. What was their tax load (several talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 3 Dilkes/ I'm not sure that's...I'm not sure that's accurate, because the information that I have...and I'm...I don't know. I haven't checked out what Coralville's situation is, but um, my understanding is that the County Assessor zeroed out the property taxes on those properties, um, and so there isn't any tax owing, um, currently...on those properties. So I think...we'd have to do a little more investigation to figure out what the situation was there. Hayek/ Well, I might be interested in that. I mean, L ..they...they're quoted in the media as having paid.. . Bailey/ Oh, they said that at the joint meeting, you're right. Dilkes/ Yeah, I think Kelly said that at the joint meeting, and I talked to him afterwards about that and...I mean, just briefly, so... Bailey/ That's about 22,000 that would go for School District and County, if...the 60%. So... Dilkes/ I mean, if you want to get that information before you decided we certainly can do that. There's no hurry here. The tax bill isn't...doesn't come till next September. Hayek/ Maybe we should, I mean, all things equal, I'm inclined to...to suggest that we do pay it...out of, I don't know, comedy or fairness to our...our other governing entities, but...but if there's some other arrangement that another municipality's availed itself of, which we could be consistent with... Dilkes/ No, I don't think...our Assessor has, as I understand it, has chosen not to do that, so there's not going...so you...it would just be for informational purposes (mumbled) Hayek/ Okay. So when... Bailey/ Well, and I'm not necessarily inclined to pay it, I mean...you know, I mean, we've made a lot of cuts to our own budget and have a lot of financial concerns. I think that this...this is an interesting one that, I mean, if we don't have to pay it, why would we? I mean, I understand the fairness issue, but...I mean...there's no...those properties aren't...there are no students on those properties using the school district, and those sorts of things, those kinds of considerations, and I think in light of some of the other decisions we've made about fiscal, um, restraint, it makes sense not to. I mean, if we need this additional information (coughing, unable to hear) but I'm inclined to...if...and we haven't gotten responses from the County and we did make that announcement at joint meeting, giving ample time for those entities to come forward expressing concern. So, that...that's just where I would be on it. So... Wilburn/ I don't know. I'm...I was just trying to think in an abstract way how to think about this, and one way, um...paying it essentially, um, and I'm sorry, would we pull it out of general? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 4 Helling/ I assume that's where it would (mumbled) Wilburn/ Um...not sure whether, at least from the City's...I'm not talking about the, uh, from our point of view, um, does the taxpayer pick up the taxes of those properties, um.. . Bailey/ Yeah. Wilburn/ I mean, that's, I mean, so if...if we pay it, then we're saying, yes, we are. If we don't, it's...we're forfeiting, uh... Bailey/ County and School District. Wilburn/ ...yeah, and so if it's...I guess it's...and...and for...and for, I mean, the reason being, in terms of sharing the burden of flood, etc., etc. Bailey/ Which we have all shared, to a great degree, because there have been expenses that haven't been covered, as well. I mean, if people needed additional information ...I'm...I'm inclined, if we have this opportunity, not to incur this expense...to not incur this expense. Um... Champion/ I agree. Bailey/ We have paid a lot for the flood, um, and we've asked for shared community, uh, payment for the flood, because we have had things... Wilburn/ Yeah. Bailey/ ...we've covered... Wilburn/ That's true, that's true. Bailey/ Um...so... Wilbun~/ So, looking like that, I'm inclined to say not to...not to pay it. I agree with that. Bailey/ Do you need additional information... Wilburn/ I have no problem if you want to wait to see... Bailey/ I have no problem if we wanted, you know, weigh our decision in light of the other communities, and I don't...I don't think that that would change...my thoughts toward this, but I understand needing more information. Wilburn/ And I would suspect they're probably looking at each other with the same question (mumbled) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 5 Bailey/ Well, I think...I think we all understand that this was a costly natural disaster on every level, so... Hayek/ Yeah, I guess I look at it from the perspective of, and this is, you know, a drop in the bucket of...of local budgets, but in terms of planning and...and taking a property off the rolls, um, four other entities have a chance to plan for it, and again, twenty...$22,000 amount shared between two (both talking) Correia/ ...next September? Which is in fiscal year 11, which ifwe...if... Bailey/ If we give (both talking) Correia/ ...everybody's doing their fiscal year (several talking) it's not going to impact a current budget year. Bailey/ Oh, well, we've been making decisions about dropping the bucket amounts. Correia/ Right, so I mean, it does give time for, I mean (both talking) Champion/ And I think also, we're not the first people to take stuff off the tax rolls. I mean, look how much land the County took off the tax (mumbled) building new building. A lot! Which is fine, I love the new building, but what I'm saying is, this is a pittance compared to what they took off the tax rolls. Hayek/ Well, I mean, my position on it would be informed by this additional information, um, but if it's academic anyway because there's support to go ahead and proceed then...then that's the way it is. Bailey/ So it seems like there's support to proceed, as outlined. To just abate. Wilburn/ Yeah. Bailey/ Um, utility franchise fee. Dale. Utility Franchise Fee (IP3 of 10/1): Helling/ Yes, uh, you have a memorandum outlining... several things. The timeline for... for, um...taking the franchise fee through the process to conclude prior to the end of the fiscal, or the end of the calendar year, which I believe Council wanted to look at, um, and then also a proposed revenue purpose statement, and also an indication of 2% franchise fee and what that would fund. Uh, there is a significant change that we were made aware of late last week, and...that is to take your pen and put a line through $840,000 and change that to $745,000. Um, the MidAmerican informed us that their interpretation, and I can't explain it technically, but I think L ..give you an idea. Their interpretation of the...the statute is that, um, and I'm saying this very simply, and it's a little more complicated, but would have to do with whether or not they would pay for gross revenue This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 6 that they receive for transporting gas. I think to simplify it, and I'm not sure, if you wanted more detail I can get it, but something that they transport through, but do not sell in the community but...but obtain revenue. Um, and uh, their interpretation is that that would not be subject to a franchise fee. Champion/ Oh, right, I understand, sure, that seems logical. Helling/ Um... Champion/ Is that your interpretation? Helling/ At any rate, uh, L ..and Eleanor can correct me, but I think if...if that's something that, uh, would be challenged, it probably would be...need to be challenged at the State level, since this is State statute and it applies across the board, and I suspect that if that happens in this community (mumbled). Dilkes/ Yeah, I...I think there's differences in interpretation. I think the League has taken a different position. But, they're going to be the ones providing the money, so initially...who are remitting the money, so initially, um, unless there would be some challenge to it that will be the... Bailey/ Do you think the League intends to challenge it? Or is... Dilkes/ I don't know. Bailey/ Okay. Thanks. Helling/ At any rate, at this point I think we would go with the...the conservative number of, which is $745,000, so that certainly has an effect, uh, 95,000 times two, so that's about $190,000, um, less over two years. Or, for...since this is all estimates for the purpose of...of round figures, I'm using the figure ofthree-quarters of a million or $750,000 for which (noise on mic) um, so really you have two questions that...that, uh, if we're going to go ahead with the...with the process as outlined, the first one would be your revenue purpose statement and um, I think on that, the public safety piece is something you all agreed on. The economic development, uh, was not agreed upon, in terms of either stating it like that or there's, um, perhaps that you would change in the policy or...or...or, I mean, change it in the purpose statement, or else just make it a policy to direct how in economic development terms that money would be used and that suggestion I had was one way might be to write down the debt on the infrastructure that we're, um, putting in at the industrial park, the southeast side. Champion/ Well (several talking) to state it somehow that way. Bailey/ Well, and can I just state Mike Wright's opinion since he's not here, and I had a conversation. He had a question that I'll bring up when we have questions. Um, but This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 7 his...his position on this is economic development, all he wants to use it for is saving debt, I think as you just stated. So, I just wanted to put that out there. Correia/ Right. But so is there a way to word that because it's...I don't know that (mumbled) could understand what it means to pay down debt to support economic...is it, cause we're talking about it as supporting public infrastructure for economic development purposes, so I mean, that...I mean, I think that...how that would translate is that we wouldn't issue debt, or we would pay down debt or however it...however it would play out, but that it's for a specific hard... Helling/ I think we could word it so that it was very clear. What we're going to do is use cash to build some of that instead of borrowing money. Correia/ Right. Champion/ Yeah, I think that's... Bailey/ Mike O'Donnell was comfortable with economic development activities, as presented. I'm comfortable with this as presented, but I know that we did have a discussion last time, because I think that it enable us to position ourselves for opportunities, and it's a broad definition that we could certainly use to pay down debt, but if there are opportunities that come up, um, when we have these funds available, and it seems like a short period of time that we would have these funds available, to...it gives us a little bit more flexibility. Champion/ And that's why I want to make it much more specific for the public. I don't want a general statement of economic development. Correia/ Me neither. Wilburn/ I think that may, uh...um, make it easier for, um, some members of the public to support it, beyond police and fire, so... Correial Public infrastructure. Wilburn/ Yeah. Helling/ That doesn't require you to...to put it in for that purpose. You can put it into public safety. You have, you know, you have both options. Bailey/ Sure, right, but...but you're saying that we do need some...you suggest that we have some options. Should we obtain grants, um, for public safety that we could use it in the meantime. We could also, I suppose, um, couldn't we build up reserves, to help...pay towards public safety expenses, once those grants go away? Helling/ You could, or you could just put it in your public safety budget and, you know, offset the General Fund that way. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Bailey/ LTh-huh. Okay. Champion/ I like...I'd like to pay down debt. If we have that money, um.. . Bailey/ Rather than offsetting General Fund expenses and public safety? Champion/ That's just another way of not, of avoiding budget cuts. Shipley/ We're talking about the debt levy too, wasn't that brought up on the 14th? Page 8 Bailey/ Right. Although I don't think we should put it out there that potential, oh, never mind. Helling/well, if you say economic development and public safety then I don't know that you could just apply it to the debt levy, um... Bailey/ But that... Correia/ But we could say, public... Bailey/ That's what Amy was trying to get through with our public infrastructure, I think (both talking) Correia/ ...to support economic development, so that would be...and what you're saying is it would be, if it's in our revenue purpose statement we could use the funds for that purpose, or we could use the funds, well, numbers one and two only. Helling/ But you can only use the funds for what you have (both talking) Correia/ Right, but you don't have to use it for all three. You could choose for a period of time choose it for all of number one or number, you know, a combination, just nothing outside of that. Helling/ Uh, except for number one the inspection supervising, otherwise regulating the (both talking) Correia/ Well, right... Helling/ ...that's... Correia/ ...two and three, yeah, that's... Helling/ Two and three is what you could (both talking) Correia/ Right, right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 9 Helling/ And then the number...um, percentage, um... Champion/ Two. Bailey/ Matt, were you going to weigh in? Hayek/ Oh, I'm...I'm thinking about the...the economic development, um, angle on it and whether.. . Bailey/ Because I think public infrastructure also is...that can be a little wide open, I mean...if you're trying to get at specificity. But... Correia/ ...infrastructure to support economic development? Hayek/ Yeah, the example given by Dale in his memo, which is why...why the industrial park became the focus, was the industrial park and so I think that's why we're talking about it. Correia/ Uh-huh. Hayek/ Um... Correia/ Do we want to be more specific, public infrastructure support economic development, or to support.... Hayek/ Development of the east side industrial park (mumbled) Correia/ Or just industrial, I mean, because I think when we're talking about industrial zones, because that gives us the most tax base, and that's what...we want to...what we want to support and so...it fits the current situation, as well as allows for...immediate, future industrial activity. Shipley/ Is it possible to change revenue purpose statement after you pass this ordinance, or we need three more years on that? Bailey/ Would we have to... Dilkes/ That's a...if you passed a revised ordinance. And you have to publish the revenue purpose statement. Karr/ You basically take the timeline and repeat it, if you change it. Bailey/ Sure. Champion/ Do you have a wording for what we're trying to get at, Dale? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 10 Helling/ Well, off the top of my head I think we want to state it somewhat in the fashion of...it could be used to, if it's the industrial park that...that you support and you want to confine it to that, and say it can be used for the cost of...of public infrastructure for the industrial park, um, and probably leave it at that, um, or you could say to...to, uh, you know, fund, or to reduce the amount of money that would be borrowed for that purpose. Bailey/ Another...another way that we'll get at this, though, I mean, I know the revenue purpose statement we have to use it for that, but another way that we'll get at this is as we look at the budget and what revenue streams are paying for...for particular things, and so Council will also have regular review of how we're using the franchise fee and assuring that it's in line with the revenue purpose statement, and the intent with the economic development activities and projects. So there's a...there's another way of getting at it, as well. Dilkes/ I think one thing that you need to remember is that...you could take out everything except public safety, and the...the Council is...future Councilors are still going to have significant options, because this is not funding of public safety in the future. This is funding of public safety. So for instance, let's say the Council in the future wanted to free up...wanted to take 500,000 of currently funded public safety money, put the franchise fee to fund that, and free up that 500,000 to use...on whatever... Bailey/ Well, that's what I was trying to...I mean, that's what I was trying to say, the Council will have a lot of latitude with every budget, given revenue streams. Dilkes/ Right. Bailey/ Right? Dilkes/ Right, and so it....it would be inaccurate to say, for instance, that ultimately just because you tighten up the economic development language, that some of that money in an indirect way would not find itself to the funding of economic development activities. Bailey/ Right. Right. I mean... Hayek/ I think...I would suggest that we consider making number three public infrastructure or economic development. Champion/ Or public infrastructure period. Shipley/ Will there be anything about debt reduction in that or... Hayek/ Well, I mean, that...that's...public infrastructure requires the...the incursion of debt, so... Bailey/ Generally, yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 11 Hayek/ ...we could be specific like that but.. . Shipley/ In the interest of specificity, yeah. Hayek/ Yeah. Helling/ Public infrastructure wouldn't always mean offsetting debt, yeah, if it's a small enough project that it might be funded from cash anyway. Um... Hayek/ And I have no problem referencing debt, which is how this started in the first place, but typically a public infrastructure project, at least a sizable one, involves floating a bond. Wilburn7/ So public infrastructure, it is for economic development. (several talking) That's what you're suggesting. Bailey/ Is this for economic development, or industrial and commercial economic development? Hayek/ Um, I even like that more. Correia/ Yeah, I do too. Bailey/ I do too, but, I mean, but Eleanor's point remains that despite, I mean, we're trying to communicate something here to the public right now, but we know future Councils will have, once again, that purview and that oversight with, or with the budget decisions. Wilburn /But that will, at least communicate also to future councils, now they can...change that, but at least if you're ever wondering what...what the intent was, then it's.. . Bailey/ Well, and we know that...and we know at this point in time, commercial and industrial development brings us property taxes at, you know, at close to 100%, so that would be the intent. Correia/ Because I think that...in trying to...be responsible about using the ability to generate this new revenue, is that, I mean, what...what we want to do is build a tax base that we don't have to rely on the franchise fee, and so that if we're trying to use this franchise fee in time limited, very...direct targeted fashion, to then...to build the tax base so that we don't have to...potentially, you know, utilize this... Bailey/ That's why I think commercial and industrial (both talking) Correia/ Right, that's what...right, I think that the message that we're trying to be very responsible and grow the tax base in a way that will have the best, you know, biggest impact on our budget situation, I mean, and I think that's responsible. Hayek/ I agree with that. The reality is, if...if our overriding focus is public safety, and um, fewer dollars than anticipated will be coming in, and the economic development funding This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 12 was really intended to be used in that direction, in the event of the short-term stimulus assistance on public safety, um, you know, then we're...it's a fairly short-term possibility. By and large over the long term, it will be...it will be public safety, unless of course we use it to fund existing obligations to free up General Fund monies for something else, and there's nothing this council can do about that. That's the prerogative of future councils. Bailey/ Well, and I think that's, you're right, that's still a good message, that we will be actively be pursuing grants and if we are successful in this grant pursuit, we will use those dollars coming in for this specific purpose...to grow the tax base. I mean, that...that does exactly what you said. It communicates to people what we're doing. Helling/ So public infrastructure for industrial/commercial economic development. Bailey/ Are you comfortable with that? Champion/ No, I don't like it. Bailey/ After we wordsmithed it? Champion/ (laughter) Helling/ Why Connie? Bailey/ Why don't you like it? Champion/ I...I think that term "economic development" I don't think the general public understands that. Um, and this is viewed as another tax to them. So...if we're going to have extra money, let's say we have three years or two years or one year or six months of extra money, then I want to make it clear that it's going to go to debt reduction, whether it's something that's in our CIP that we're going to do anyway, and we don't bond for it. L ..I think it's really important that the public understand that any money that we don't have to use for public safety will go to help keep their tax levy down, or their...not the tax levy but.. . Bailey/ But that sets up an expectation that potentially we can't meet, even if we reduce the debt service levy, other...other, the emergency levy might go up, and so we (both talking) we do set up some...some expectations that we might not be able... Correia/ And L ..I also think that, I mean, I appreciate that, um, but that's also thinking about a very present focus, and our present focus has been on we don't have enough tax revenue to meet the needs of...the service needs that our residents want and that...you know, expect, and so if we're thinking about what our potential long-term outcomes, like the performance measures. If we're going to...you know, what we want to get from supporting public infrastructure for commercial, industrial development is that we're going to have more commercial, industrial activity, we're going to have more taxes coming in to the city to help meet the service needs, so I mean...I mean, it is a bit more This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 13 of a complicated message. Maybe harder to communicate for general lay-person to understand, I mean, I don't know, who is just thinking about...and I understand people are looking at, well, this is my tax bill right now and I have to try and pay that, um...but I think we've been very...I mean, this Council has been very responsible about trying to keep that, the tax levy down, I mean, we really haven't raised significantly...you know, in the last two years, so... Bailey/ Well, and there were years where we kept it flat. Wilburn/ Another issue in terms of, uh...um...you know, the...where the taxes come from, I mean, we...a future council may face a situation where, um, with further pressure on the State to reduce or keep property taxes low, I mean, their response has been to continue to lower the rollback, and...part of the rationale for pursuing this option not only us but, uh, the other larger cities in the state, was um, the alternative revenue source angle, and so, um...you know, if, um...in...in the long run, if people continue to hope to...I don't want my property taxes to go up, but I also don't want the decrease in services, then I think, you know, rejection of this type of other revenue, other than property tax, um...will, I mean, there'll be a direct correlation to...if not here then it's less services if the taxes (mumbled) Champion/ The thing that worries me...if we have it, and we don't even know if we're going to have any extra money basically (several talking) I mean, that's... Bailey/ Extra money (mumbled) Champion/ That would be extra nice! (laughter) But, um...with...when we talk about the CII', whoever's here to talk about it, um, I don't want us using this money to pay for industrial park that we're going to do anyway, right? I mean...and I don't want us raising...I don't want us using that against our percentage that we set ourselves for so that people...that citizens don't benefit from...from this extra money at all, it just allows us to do more projects. That's another concern of mine. Do you understand what I'm saying? Correia/ I know what you mean. Bailey/ I don't (several talking) Hayek/ ...that problem with...in any circumstance though, right? I mean... Bailey/ I mean, you say that...I'm not following you. I'm sorry! (laughter) Correia/ You're saying...you wouldn't want it to happen that we would continue to...enter into debt. We would keep the same CIP that we had this year, but then just did more projects with this other money, and that wouldn't effect (both talking) Bailey/ But that comes back... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 14 Correia/ ...still be within our percentage. Champion/ Right. Bailey/ You're right. It comes back to the council that makes the budget decisions, and then...so if this is our purpose statement, that council uses this and looks at their revenue streams and says, no, public infrastructure to support economic development -let's use it to pay down debt. I mean, that...that's where that...that (both talking) Correia/ What if that doesn't happen? And it's just do more projects. Bailey/ Well, it's possible. I don't...I don't know how specific you could write it, and it wouldn't be possible for a future council (both talking) Correia/ Right, right! Helling/ You're always going to have flexibility, because of the way the statute's written. Correia/ Right. Helling/ And because of the amount of money you put in public safety on an annual basis, you could take a 5% franchise fee, pour it all into public safety, and only put a dent in, you know, in what...in the total funding you have, so there's always going to be that flexibility and I don't think you can...I don't know a good way to state it, that really locks it in, uh...economic development (mumbled) was...was an alternative, if you happen to have extra money, a way to say that we're going to take that money and put it back. We're going to invest it back in the community, and in the future tax base, to..to try to grow that some way, without...it's very difficult to say, uh, debt levy reduction, reduction from what and how do you measure that. It's very difficult to do (mumbled) Bailey/ Especially for future tracking. Hayek/ What about, uh, allocating it to property tax relief? Champion/ Well, that's how we would do it. We would do it by reducing the debt levy. Hayek/ Just saying, property tax relief. Shipley/ That was specifically mentioned in the state... Bailey/ ...an option. Shipley/ I mean, I have a couple... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 15 Hayek/ We've talked about...I've brought property tax relief up before, and, um, I don't sense sufficient interest in pursuing that. It would require in essence probably another percentage. Champion/ Well, the...well, I'm just talking about the extra money. Um...but I see what you're saying. Yeah, I think property tax relief, even with that extra money, and we don't want to take it off the levy, our 8% levy, um, because then they'll just go up, but I mean, you can reduce the property tax by reducing the debt levy. Bailey/ Well, and that could be the intent through this statement, um, by a council. The thing about property tax relief as a purpose statement is you're bound, and that once again, you know, sets up expectations. Dilkes/ Property tax release is the only purpose that the statute requires you specify an amount for. (several talking) So...but...so if you want to provide property tax release, you need to specify how and how much. Hayek/ To entertain that as a...as a spillover category in the event this federal funding for public safety emerges, I mean, you would have to know what...what that...extra balance would be (both talking) Bailey/ You would have to have the grant, wouldn't you? You would have to have the offsetting amount that you were covering for public safety to know. If you state an amount, you would have to know... Dilkes/ If you're only talking about funding from this point forward, not funding any existing expenses but funding from this point forward, I...I think the conversations becoming a little bit...becoming a little bit kind of...muddled because of the...because we're focusing on paying new expenses. But there's nothing about this statute or the purpose statement that requires it to be used for new expenses, and so (both talking) Bailey/ I think part of the conversation is figuring out, or becoming comfortable with the concept...because you're right. We could use it to pay for current public safety. We wouldn't have to hire (both talking) Dilkes/ Right, and...and so telling, so by putting a statement in there that it's going to be used for debt reduction...for instance, debt reduction for blab, blah, b1ah...I mean, there's a potential for creating an expectation that that's going to happen, and there's nothing about that language that requires that. Bailey/ Right. Hayek/ Jeff, I know you wanted to make a point, but let me...before we do that...on, apropos your comment, can we say expanded or enhanced public safety...to define or clarify that this is for the expansion of our...of our ranks by nine firefighters and six police officers? Versus just public safety, which would allow you to fund existing levels. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Dilkes/ I think theoretically you could. Bailey/ I think that that's... Hayek/ Would you want to, that's... Bailey/ I don't know if that's a good policy decision. Champion/ Why couldn't...well, maybe we should just say for public safety. Bailey/ And that's what it says (several talking) Page 16 Shipley/ Going back to June and July when we were first talking about this, I mean, public safety was the reason why we talked about this initially, and talking around...I mean, that's obviously the chief duty of this body and the city, um, and a lot of people don't think we're doing a really good job on public safety right now, so maybe a third line isn't all that necessary. Bailey/ But, you understand why we're putting the third line in. Shipley/ In case there's extra money, yeah. Bailey/ Yeah, to...to signal that we'll pursue those grants, and I think... Champion/ But we could...anyway! We could use that money, uh, if we have extra money, we could still use it for public safety, by paying off...I don't know if that new fire station is paid for or the next fire station (several talking) Correia/ There's other things that we levied debt for related to public safety (several talking) Shipley/ ...a substation, so I'm sure there's lots of things you can invest in public safety. Bailey/ Sure! But I think, I mean, I liked Amy's point about also signaling that we were going to try to grow the tax base, and I think that that's... Shipley/ I guess with the term like economic development's been thrown out, you know, quite a little bit since I've been around here, um, I think there's actually a lot of economic development fatigue and especially you know with the economy the way it is, shutting hundreds of thousands of jobs a month, who's to say there is going to be any economic development in the future. That's kind of a optimistic scenario that may not, you know, so... Champion/ I'd go for public safety. (several talking) Correia/ You want to take out economic development. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 17 Champion/ Yeah. Bailey/ Were the rest...I...I...this is fine. The reworked, uh, economic development statement is absolutely fine with me, public infrastructure to support economic development in commercial...commercial and economic...commercial and industrial economic development I think is how it worded. I'm good with the three. Wilburn/ I agree. Bailey/ Matt? Hayek/ Um...I...I see the appeal of a public safety only, but I...if...if there is an excess, and I'm (several talking) there will be one... Bailey/ Yeah, we all are! Hayek/ Uh, I think it is appropriate to apply it toward a public infrastructure project. Champion/ But it could be the fire station (several talking) Bailey/ But...we know...we know that that's a decision that this leaves latitude for a council to make, and I think that that's a good... Champion/ Or a fire truck! Helling/ That's public safety. Champion/ Right! I mean, so...I mean, there's a lot of ways to use that extra money, um, could use it towards that communication center. Bailey/ But that....well, that'd be paid for with another... Champion/ Well, I'm just saying. Bailey/ But...that's the thing! That's what the council gets to decide in the budget decisions. Correia/ It doesn't require... Bailey/ Doesn't require (both talking) development investment. Correia/ But it allows. Bailey/ Allows, it's an allow...allowing statement, not a requiring statement. Champion/ Whatever. I still (noise on mic) public safety. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 18 Bailey/ I'm sure that that's...(several talking) Helling/ Just...there's no...there's no way that you could take the flexibility away from future councils, you know, to (mumbled) Bailey/ Not to the degree you want. Helling/ But, you have t his...if you're going to use it for a specific purpose, it has to be stated, or you can't use it. So it's...a, uh, exclusionary, is that it? Hayelc/ Arguably, i£ ..if you identified one thing off the list that the legislation permits, and the money coming in is...is less than our current budget allocation to that one thing, we can do anything with it. You could plug that existing budget item with the franchise money and free up the money to do anything that our General Fund permits, at any time, I mean, so...and that's...that is...that's the nature of the beast. That's...that'll be the prerogative of...of any council that comes along. I think that would be, you know...maybe not morally, but...but they will be, I think, duty-bound to respect the genesis of this fee, but not legally bound. Bailey/ So...do you have what you need? (laughter) Helling/ No! Do you want the economic development piece in it or... Bailey/ Public infrastructure to support commercial and industrial economic development, is that.. . Dilkes/ So the four of you here, except for Connie, are (several talking). Okay. Helling/ Okay, all right. Bailey/ All right. Helling/ And then the number. 2%? Is that... Bailey/ 2% I think it was...there was concurrence. Okay? All right. Hayek/ I think 2% is fair, and...and... Bailey/ Well, it...I mean, it's based upon our projections. It's based upon, I mean, there's some objective criteria here. I think we can all speak to that. If we find that...it's excessive, we will change it, or the future council will change it, I'm sure. Hayek/ And I think the...level of this fee meets the taxpaying public in the middle. When you look at the cuts that were part of the FY10 budget, the cuts we anticipate having to make in the FY11 budget, the loss of, uh, over a million dollars in interest income, flat This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 19 evaluation, data we received recently, uh, and the fact that we held the line on new hires, it's not realistic to, uh...expect that we can...we can enhance public safety by hiring upwards of 15 new employees, without a new revenue source. Bailey/ Given the call for the fourth fire station, and staffing the fourth fire station, I think we would be irresponsible not to use this new revenue stream to cover that. Our...that...our, what the community has asked us to do, and Jeff s right. There have been other calls for additional public safety, um, increases, so I think...I think it just makes sense to use this new revenue stream for that. Mike Wright also had a question, um, just specifically how the, and maybe this is, Eleanor, a question for you -how the franchise fee works? If it's 2% it's 2% of somebody's bill, right? Dilkes/ Yes. Bailey/ Okay. He had a question from a constituent, and I told him I would follow up, and that's how I thought I understood it. A 2% franchise fee if my...if my, if my, um, energy bill is $100, it's 2% of... Dilkes/ Right. Bailey/ Okay, that's what I told him, but he wanted to clarify that for that constituent. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Champion/ But your utility bill...contains other fees and those will not be part of the franchise...isn't that correct, like the other fees on that? There's a tax (mumbled) Bailey/ The gas and electric, so... Dilkes/ I'd have to have a bill in front of me to (several talking) Hayek/ It doesn't tax the tax. Champion/ Right. Bailey/ Right. Dilkes/ I don't know. Bailey/ That's...it's on energy costs. Okay. Champion/ Right. Information Packet Discussion: This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 20 Bailey/ All right. Um, information packet discussion, and Wendy is here if anybody has any questions about the economic development report. Thanks for being here, Wendy. Any... . Hayek/ Three of the five of us were here when this was presented the first time, so.. . Bailey/ But I think it was...it's nice that she's here...given that we've...given that we just had a discussion about economic development. Hayek/ This is quite a bit of nuggets of information and I think it's, uh, good summary of aggressive efforts. Bailey/ Yeah, I think we should be proud of the, um, the achievements in this area, and uh, think that things have gone very well...generally. I don't hear any questions for Wendy. Thank you. Any other...um, any other info packet items? Okay, moving along. Council time? Council Time: Hayek/ We, uh...fairly recently, but very briefly discussed the arts campus and what the University's looking at, um, and my recollection is that the City, the Council decided not to do anything about it, and at least for the time being while we waited to see what...what unfolded. Um, I don't have an opinion right now about location, but uh, I've...I'm...questioning whether we should sit idle...sit idly by while this process unfolds and wonder whether we ought not to look at it from the City's perspective, and...and weigh in. Ultimately the decision's not ours but we're, you know, immensely impacted by it. Bailey/ I would support weighing in, but I think everybody needs to feel comfortable with that. Champion/ I'm very comfortable with it. Bailey/ I understand that there's another meeting on October 12th that will talk with faculty, staff, and students about the...the music school I think specifically. Hayek/ I mean, the risk is that if we're...if we're divided on, let's just say the two locations that have been bandied about, um, what does that...what message does that send? And we don't know until we get into it, but... Bailey/ We could send a message that we know is true at this point and will be true in the future that we will work with the University on whatever location, because there will be City involvement on either location. They'll need some I think street restructuring, potentially, for the...for the west location, and we know what they might need for the downtown location. So...are...others interested in weighing in? Champion/ I am. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 21 Bailey/ Okay. Correia/ I mean, we would...what would we...what kind of information would we need to have in order to... Bailey/ Well, Jeff Davidson has been working, and...with the University, with Rod, right? Helling/ Yeah, um... Bailey/ ...he was at one of those meetings. Helling/ I think mostly in terms of providing information to the University to help them make their decision, and I don't know to what extent they've...they've asked for that at this point, but certainly the issue for instance of rerouting, uh, north Riverside Drive or something like that. Bailey/ Right. Helling/ Would certainly be a part of that, um...but certainly not to the extent that...uh, it would imply the City is, you know, in favor of one location or the other (mumbled) Bailey/ I mean, it's a very contentious issue. We do run that risk. There's...it's a... Wilburn/ We do that all the time! I'm just thinking more (laughter and both talking) Bailey/ Do we want to take on another contentious issue (laughter) that isn't ours, maybe that's what I should say! (laughter) Hayek/ ...watch from the sidelines! Bailey/ Exactly! Wilburn/ Well I'm just trying to think, I mean, are we making a statement of impact on the...on the City, I mean, I don't know the...I don't know, well, I think maybe I know one of the Regents, but yeah, maybe two of the Regents, but...the risk you take if you put, if we take a formal position is that uh, well, our...our President attempted to help get a (laughter) you know what I mean, we set ourselves up for the, uh, University (several talking) Bailey/ ...go to Rio? (laughter and several talking) Wilburn/ I'm not afraid of taking a, us taking a position. I'm just saying, what...what potential, uh... Correia/ Unintended consequences. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 22 Wilburn/ What are the unintended consequences (several talking) Bailey/ I think that's a good point, and L ..I do think the statement is, and what I've told people is...is the City will cooperate with the University, as we have on other projects, regardless of...of my personal opinion is thus, but, you know, the City will cooperate. Hayek/ Well, maybe we don't. Bailey/ I mean, we can all weigh in I suppose individually, I mean, I certainly have, but...(laughter) and it is contentious, let me tell ya! Champion/ It's very contentious. Hayek/ I mean, it's such a matter of...it involves Public Works, it involves Economic Development, it involves...Planning, you know. Bailey/ It involves a lot of our...our... Hayek/ Traffic. Bailey/ ...our, you know, our central district, our south district plan too, what our vision is for growing downtown south of Burlington could be impacted by that particular choice, I mean... Hayek/ All right. It doesn't sound like... Bailey/ There are three of us who...who are comfortable, but we don't have... Hayek/ Well, maybe we wait until another work session to... Bailey/ Yeah. Hayek/ ...get all seven of us here. Bailey/ Might be decided by... Hayek/ By the way while I'm on the subject, the CVB...I suspect the CVB is going to try to formulate, um, an opinion of that body, and as the City's represented (mumbled) remain agnostic, I guess, in those deliberations, um, I've never known exactly what my role is. Is it to go advocate for what Matt Hayek thinks is great or what the City thinks is great, and I...I'm inclined to go with the latter. So... Bailey/ Good! (laughter and several talking) Hayek/ In case you were wondering! This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 23 Bailey/ That would be most of our interpretation of that, yeah! Okay. So...you'll bring it up at another work session when we have (both talking). Okay. Budget priority discussion? Anything tonight? Okay. Shipley/ Wait, are we done with Council time? Bailey/ Oh, well, I move fast, but go ahead! Shipley/ Um, I brought this up I think last week. I know a couple other people in the student government at the University are contacting Mike Moran about, uh, those posting pillars downtown, um, surprisingly a lot of people liked my idea and thought it would really help student groups advertise events, if we had a more permanent, you know, location, and I think there's at least four or five on, uh, what is that, Iowa Avenue, the Phillips Hall, through Van Allen, um, so we're just really looking for a quote, how valuable is that property to the City and how much would it cost us if we wanted to purchase it. So.. . Helling/ You talking about the ones that... Shipley/ The posting pillars. Helling/ ...that anybody can post on (both talking) Shipley/ We want to make it just so we can post on them. (laughter) Hayek/ Are you talking about the ones with...a cap that looks like the Capitol Dome? Shipley/ Yeah. Correia/ Not the big ones, the small ones that.. . Bailey/ The open ones, not the locked ones, right? There are some behind glass. Okay. The open ones, what's the policy? That's just... Helling/ The policy is they're open. Anybody can.. . Wilburn/ If you look...back and, Connie, you'd probably remember this too, uh, part of the evolution of that was people were posting things everywhere, and there was concern about the, if I remember right, about the locked ones that we would be, um, (mumbled) I think that came as a... a gesture that there is a value for this open, freedom to post whatever, but also to try and get it off of...(several talking) because it, I mean, and I know people still do it there, but there's more...there was a, I think there was a lot of energy against, uh, you know, City employees who were removing those things down, and so it was an attempt to channel the disorganized freedom blah, blab, blah so that the understanding that we would not remove anything from there, but if you put it on a building, telephone pole it would be removed. That's my recollection, you know.. . This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 24 Shipley/ It's problematic. As someone who tries to advertise events from time to time, you know, you'll have a posting up and spend $35 on flyers to post up, you know, over half an hour, so... Correia/ Well, I mean, I wonder...so now the locked ones are the Downtown Association? So if you all contacted the Downtown Association to see if there could be...right, cause those have.. . Shipley/ I called the phone number one time, I think months ago, and I didn't really...I don't think I left a message or (several talking) Bailey/ Yeah, she's the president. Or the chair, whatever they (several talking) Hayek/ There are other groups that are interested in those, as well, the CVB has...mentioned on and off for years their interest in taking those over too. Um...so that's competition. Shipley/ Well, yeah, so I guess (both talking) maybe! Champion/ (several talking) that are open for anybody to post things on, I think it's a very valuable thing to have. They're abused, that's part of the problem, like somebody will put up 20 posters for their event on there instead of one or two. I don't know how you control that. Shipley/ That's the economic principle of tragedy of commons where a commonly owned, you know, land or asset will be plundered to extinction, so...(laughter) Champion/ I think that's happening! Shipley/ It is happening! Hayek/ If Martin Luther tried to post his little, uh, list.. . Shipley/ It'd be covered up right away! (several talking) Hayek/ But they wouldn't (several talking) Wilburn/ I want to go back just for a minute, um, do you, um, is there...has there been any expectation, or have you heard from students whether or not they're wishing the Council to express an opinion about Hancher... Shipley/ It was an idea brought up originally at the student leadership institute back in August, and um, they just told me to talk to the City about it, so...just, yeah. But yeah, there's interest. Hayek/ You're not talking about the same thing.... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 25 Wilburn/ No, I'm talking about, uh, the...oh, the arts campus, Hancher. Bailey/ Was there an expectation for the City Council to weigh in on that? Shipley/ I haven't heard of any, I mean, when's the next meeting they're having, it's soon, right? Bailey/ October 12th is what I've heard. Wilburn/ As we wait to hear, um, what the rest of us here...maybe that might be some information you could get (mumbled) Shipley/ Yeah, I'll ask around. Wilburn/ Yeah. Bailey/ Okay. Correia/ I just wanted to announce there's a group of folks, um, going to visit Davenport Police Chief on Wednesday, Chamber of Commerce has...coordinated the trip to talk about some of the community based, neighborhood based prevention, um, crime prevention efforts that they have instituted there, um, with great success. So I'll be attending. I think, um, Officer Jorey Bailey will be attending, someone from the Iowa City Police Department (both talking) Helling/ I don't think it'll be Officer Bailey, because he's in training. Correia/ Okay. Helling/ Um, and also Marcia Bollinger. Correia/ Yep, Marcia's on that list, and there'll be folks from Coralville, as well, so, and the chamber, so I'll report back on (several talking) Bailey/ ...I was wondering how that was going. Correia/ So that's Wednesday morning. Schedule of Pending Discussion Items: Bailey/ Okay, shall we move on to...are we done with Council time? Schedule of pending discussion items, IP4. Tried to add something to it, but I think we'll wait. Uh, Hancher, music/arts campus. Anything else? Helling/ Just, uh, on the, not necessarily the pending work session issues, but conjunction with that work sessions themselves, um, sometimes even though we have a sizeable pending This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 26 list, there just aren't things available, and um, just maybe give some thought to...to having maybe having the flexibility or staff having the flexibility to...if there are just a few issues, to...to combine meetings on Tuesday night and eliminate the Monday night meetings. Champion/ Great! Helling/ I don't anticipate that would happen very often. Champion/ Perfect time to do it...these two meetings. Bailey/ So that's preferable to...two nights? Hayek/ Yeah, it depends on what's on the work session, I mean, depends on what's on the formal, because if something comes up of great significance and we need the staff input, we've got a 24-hour period as opposed to ten minutes. Bailey/ Right. Hayek/ But, yeah, if we can reduce meetings, I'm happy to participate in that. Bailey/ Well, yeah, tomorrow night's agenda is pretty short. This is a pretty short...we'll probably have an hour work session. I think this would be an example of, maybe, something that could be combined. Potentially. Helling/ It would be obvious which ones are like that and... Bailey/ Those are famous lines (laughter and several talking) Wilburn/ I just have a feeling that's not going to happen very... Helling/ ...like a week's notice, uh, advance notice too, so if somebody raised an issue we could always...leave it the way (mumbled) Upcoming Community Events and Council Invitations: Bailey/ Um...anything else on pending? Okay. Upcoming community events, Council invitations? I just wanted to point out, I think we all got flyers about the Human Rights' breakfast. Marian, you'll make arrangements for us if we're interested in going? Karr/ Yes, let me know and I'll be happy to do that. Bailey/ Okay. Also, um, as you all know, Iowa City area was named as a "Great Places" great place, the greatest great place in Iowa, as far as I'm concerned (laughter). Champion/ Naturally! This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 27 Bailey/ There is a ceremony in Des Moines on Friday, October 16th. The CVB, Lori at the CVB, uh, is making arrangements so if you would like to attend, Mark Ginsberg is hosting some tables. The, you know, make your reservation...he'll have the tables, but if you would like to attend, I think it starts around 5:00 or...yeah, 5:00, um, it's at the State Historical Building in Des Moines. If you would like to attend, let Lori at the CVB know and um, I'll pass this email on to Marian so she'll have the contact information. I plan to attend, um, and I...there will be other people from Iowa City. The UNESCO board there for sure, but if others can attend, that would be fabulous. So... Champion/ How did the bridge thing go? I couldn't go because I couldn't wear a coat. (several talking) Bailey/ The bridge is open! It's beautiful! Take a bike ride, because you know it has the separated trail. Champion/ Yeah, that's great. Bailey/ And benches to look at the river. (laughter and several talking) Get the bike taxi to take you out there. (laughter) Wilburn/ Pedi-cab. Bailey/ Pedi-cab, thanks. And you don't get a pedicure. That's not what it's about. It's a pedi- cab. (laughter) Dale, did you... Helling/ Yeah, the um, ICAD luncheon is now a dinner, and it's on the, I think the 28th, at...and I believe that's a Wednesday. (several talking and laughter) Um, the um, we...generally buy a table, and but we wanted to find out if...how many people are going so we'd know, um...you know, if that's...we will...pay for, uh, Council Member or employees' dinner. We won't pay for spouses. You have to...and I believe... Hayek/ I'll let Marian know for me. Helling/ Okay, there's either eight or ten at a table, and uh...we generally have several staff members that go. I generally go. Wendy, um...Planning Director...those three or four so...(mumbled). Can they all sit at the same table? (mumbled) Karr/ If it's purely social, of course. Bailey/ Okay. Any other events (both talking) Helling/ ...reservations. Bailey/ Okay. Any discussion of meeting schedules necessary? I think we talked about combining when possible. All right. Seeing nothing... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009. October 5, 2009 City Council Work Session Page 28 Hayek/ Oh, sorry, this is probably a month and a half in advance, but annual Veterans' Day banquet is probably the 11th of November. Bailey/ Did everybody get invitations? Karr/ No, you did. Bailey/ Oh, well I think... Hayek/ Okay, just to make sure something is in the works. Bailey/ yeah, I've got mine. Karr/ The Mayor received the invitation. Bailey/ But everybody's invited, right? Why don't I just...I'll give this to you and we can put it in the Info Packet. Okay. Yeah. Great. All right. See you tomorrow night. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular work session meeting of October 5, 2009.