HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003-08-18 TranscriptionAugust 18, 2003 Council Work Session Page 1
August 18, 2003 Council Work Session 6:30 PM
Council: Champion, Kanner, Lehman, O'Donnell, Pfab, Vanderhoef, Wilbum;
Staff: Atkins, Boothroy, Dilkes, Franklin, Helling, Karr, Klingaman
TAPES: 03-60, SIDE TWO; 03-63 BOTH SIDES
TAPE 03-60, SIDE TWO
Lehman/We're late. My fault.
Franklin/It's your meeting.
O'Donnell/It certainly is.
REVIEW ZONING ITEMS
Lehman/Planning and Zoning matters.
a. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR SEPTEMBER 9 ON
AN ORDINANCE REZONING APPROXIMATELY 8.7 ACRES FROM INTERIM
DEVELOPMENT (ID-RS) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY-LOW DENSITY
SINGLE-FAMILY (OSA-5) LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF FOSTER
ROAD. (REZ03-00017/SUB03-00019)
Franklin/OK. First item is to set a public hearing for September 9th on an ordinance rezoning
8.7 acres from ID-RS to OSA-5. This is for a development that is just north of the
Peninsula Neighborhood on Foster Road.
Franklin/Item b is---
Kanner/I think I've got a question on that.
Franklin/Mm-hmm.
Kanner/Can you explain a bit--I was reading the notes from the P and Z and the question came
up about the woods that are being taken out and then being replaced. I was wondering if
you could explain a little about that. And then I had a follow-up question on that.
Franklin/OK. I'll do my best. Dean is, Dean Shannon's here, I think representing P and Z
tonight? Right? So he can correct me if I'm wrong about their discussion.
Kanner/Well, I'm concerned about what---
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Franklin/OK. The issue was that of the woodlands protection as covered by the Sensitive Areas
Ordinance, and a determination was made that there was a protected woodland on the
west end of the property, essentially the west end. There were also some specimen trees
that were in more the central or eastern part of the subdivision that we were trying to
work with the developer to preserve. And the consequence of trying to work around these
specimen trees and still get a viable development in there resulted in a removal of more
than 50 percent of the woodland. It was 60--it is 68 percent which is why it's before you
as an OSA. The 18 pement that was over, they will have to have a tree planting--they do
have a tree planting plan that provides for the replacement of that 18 percent. And this is
all according to the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. And so what was before the Commission
was that issue and the tree planting plan and whether it was acceptable or not to the
Commission. Their recommendation was for approval. The tree planting plan results in
more trees being on the north boundary and on the south boundary of the overall
development project.
Karmer/What's the ratio that they have to plant a new tree for every amount over 50 percent and
what---
Franklin/I'd have to look at the Code. I think it's 2:1, but I'm not--because this was setting for
public hearing I didn't look at all the detail of that for tonight.
Kanner/I'm asking this so that maybe get the word out about what's happening so people can,
carry comments on the public hearing. What's the surviving rate of new trees and how
long does it take for a new tree to reach the same maturation as an old tree that's taken
down?
Franklin/I have no idea, and I'm sure it depends upon the tree in terms of your second question.
Survival of the trees, those that are planted as replacement trees will be monitored and
will meet by inspections and will need to be replaced if they do not survive. Now, I'm
presuming that we do this for some period of time and not forever. For instance, they're
planted with the development. A year later we go back and look and make sure that
they're all surviving and they have to replace any of those that have died. But I can't tell
you, Steven, on average how long a tree survives once it's planted, because I'm sure it
depends on species, care, weather, a number of factors, and maybe Terry Robinson can
help you with that.
Kanner/Yeah, well, I wonder, Steve, if Terry could let us know about some of those things
before the next---
Atkins/Yes, we can have him--how about a (can't hear) summary memo kind of addressing
some of those issues. I can do that.
Kanner/And there was some discussion, I remember, Dean, about---
Atkins/Dean.
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Franklin/Dean.
Kanner/...Dean, I'm sorry, about how much inspection there is. I recall reading in the P and Z
minutes, and I don't--if that can be included, too, how long do we keep inspecting---
Atkins/How long, OK.
Kanner/...to see if those trees, those new trees are up there?
Atkins/That sounds easy enough. We can do that for you.
Kanner/Thank you.
Champion/But the way the diseases ravishing through our old trees in town, I mean, it would be
nice to have a lot of young ones growing.
Franklin/Yeah, the maples are---
Lehman/Is this across the street from Idyllwild.
Franklin/No, this is up at the end of Foster Road between the Elks Club property and the
Peninsula Neighborhood. It's the 10 acres, essentially 10 acres that mearden and Bolton
retained of the property that we purchased from them in '93.
O'Donnell/But it's on the right-hand side of the street.
Lehman/Yes.
Franklin/It's on the right-hand side of the road as you're going down Foster Road, traveling
west. At that point Foster Road curves around, which is why this says west of Foster
Road because, you know, I---
Lehman/ Thank you. That's why I was confused.
Franklin/...I looked at this too and thought huh? Foster Road is---
Lehman/ The only portion I could think of west of was that part at the bottom of the hill.
Franklin/Yeah.
Lehman/OK. All right.
Franklin/OK?
Dilkes/Karin, just to--it's, Bob states in the minutes that it's one forest tree for every 200 square
feet of disturbed woodland area above the 50 percent. The additional 18 percent
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August 18, 2003 Council Work Session Page 4
disturbance would require 102 replacement trees.
Franklin/Thank you.
Kanner/Thank you.
Lehman/OK.
b. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY REZONING 5.69 ACRES FROM
LOW-DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-5) TO LOW-DENSITY
MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12) LOCATED AT 1715 MORMON
TREK BOULEVARD. (REZ03-00018) (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Franklin/OK, item b is first consideration on All Nations Baptist Church. We've been over that
one before.
c. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION OF
APPROXIMATELY 6.1 ACRES FROM COUNTY RS, SUBURBAN
RESIDENTIAL, TO CI-1, INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL FOR PROPERTY
LOCATED WEST OF DANE ROAD, EAST OF MORMON TREK BOULEVARD
EXTENDED. (REZ01-00017) (PASS AND ADOPT)
d. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION OF
APPROXIMATELY 144 ACRES FROM COUNTY CIt, C2, R1A, RS & A1 TO P,
PUBLIC, CH-I, ItIGItWAY COMMERCIAL, CI-L INTENSIVE
COMMERCIAL, AND ID-RS, SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL, FOR PROPERTY
GENERALLY LOCATED EAST OF HIGItWAY 218, WEST OF THE IOWA
CITY AIRPORT, AND BOTH NORTH AND SOUTIt OF HIGHWAY 1. (REZ03-
00013)(PASS AND ADOPT)
Franklin/Item c and d are the zonings on the annexation along Mormon Trek Boulevard, that
large annexation we did. That is complete by the state. It is being processed by the county
but we're ready to have you vote on the final pass and adopt on these zoning items.
e. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A FINAL PLAT OF TItE PENINSULA
NEIGHBORHOOD, SECOND ADDITION, IOWA CITY, IOWA.
Franklin/Item e is the final plat of Peninsula Neighborhood, second addition. This is the second
phase which you have already seen the preliminary plat of. It includes single-family, row
houses, townhouses, and small apartment buildings. Later on in the agenda you will also
have the public hearing on the resolution authorizing conveyance of Phase 2. That will
authorize conveyance of the entire phase. What we anticipate at this point is that the
developers will be actually purchasing immediately this area right here, which is an alley,
a triangular lot for parking for the sales office temporarily and then five single-family lots
and will purchase the remainder as they get to the point where they want to put in
infrastructure there. As you'll notice, these lots right here have the infrastructure already
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August 18, 2003 Council Work Session Page 5
in place from Phase 1. So, before they buy any more of this we will have documentation
of their construction financing.
Kanner/Karin, does this have the same, what is it, 10 pement available at lower cost low-income
housing?
Franklin/The 10 percent, Steven, is over the entire thing. And we have on the preliminary
regulating plan, or planned development plan, an indication on each of the lots where the
affordable housing units will be, and we did that to ensure scatter. And so that's on the
initial preliminary for this, the whole area. We figured that out way back.
Karmer/Does that translate to any of these being---
Franklin/In this phase?
Kanner/Yeah, in this phase.
Franklin/Yes, and I'd have to go back and look at the regulating plan to determine which ones
they are.
Kanner/For tomorrow, could you let me know what they---
Franklin/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/Weren't they the ones that they substituted a multifamily building in place of these
single-family lots over here? I think that's what you told us.
Wilbum/That sounds familiar.
Franklin/Say that again, Dee. There was an apartment building over here.
Vanderhoef/Right. And where they moved it into the plan to put the---
Franklin/Phase 1 ?
Vanderhoef/No.
Franklin/No.
Vanderhoef/And a new--and it was sort of to the west. Well, maybe it is in Phase 1.
Franklin/This is the Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship Project that's being done with the
Housing Authority. This had nothing to do with this. There was an amendment to the Part
1 plat at the same time as the Part 2 preliminary came in, so I think that's what, maybe,
you're thinking about. But I'll find out for tomorrow exactly which lots are designated
for affordable housing. At this point we've got this apartment building hem, two cottage
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plats here.
Boothroy/And over there by the alley, the zigzag, whatever you want to call it, those four
townhouses.
Franklin/These right here.
Boothroy/(can't hear)
Franklin/OK. So those are the ones right now that are Greater Iowa City Housing Authority.
Lehman/Which is more than 10 percent of the first phase.
Kanner/You're going to have Phase 1 and 2?
Lehman/It's called Phase 1.
Franklin/That's 16 units. Yeah. Yes, it is.
Lehman/So they're well ahead of the game as far as within requirement.
Franklin/Right.
Kanner/And we have a requirement if there's any public funds used, there has to be universal
design. Now, does that have to be a direct monetary payment to be considered public
assistance?
Franklin/No. Well, it can be Cormnunity Development Block Grant money that went toward the
acquisition of land.
Champion/They're doing some universal designs.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
Franklin/Yeah, mm-hmm.
Letunan/Well, I think they'd like to have (can't hear)
Boothroy/Yeah.
Franklin/If you want to discuss this, I need to have Doug come up because this is being lost in
the record, I think.
Kanner/But they're not all being universal. They're all doing universal designs? That means one
access in each unit has to be accessible to people in wheelchairs?
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Franklin/I'm so glad you came.
Boothroy/I just stopped by on my way to the Dairy Queen and I thought I'd answer some
questions.
(Laughter)
Lehman/Bring us some ice cream on the way back.
Boothroy/I'm getting a blizzard.
Champion/I like hot fudge sundaes.
Boothroy/The--my eyes aren't what they used to be but--when you move your arrow back--the
apartment building is 100 percent accessible. The townhouse units, because of their
design, the first floor is accessible but obviously the bedrooms on the second level and
the basement area is not accessible. So they would have a first-floor bathroom and the
spaces on that level would be all accessible. And then on the two duplexes on 20
something or other, 27, 28, maybe? I can't--or 26 and 27--the first floor, those are over
under units and the first floor is 100 percent accessible and the second floor is, they all
meet the same, they all meet the width requirements first and second floor, but they're
not going to be wheelchair accessible on the second floor. And the reason for that is that
in the Code there's a provision that said if it's, there's some hardship issues with regard
to whether or not that particular standard can be waived, and when you have it's a 35- or
40-foot-wide lot, 3,000 square feet, and you have an over-and-under duplex, it's
impossible, literally impossible to design that duplex to be side by side. And that's where
the hardship came into play on that particular type of unit. The same thing is tree with the
townhouse units. You can get to the first floor, but when you're dealing with an 18-foot-
wide lot and the building covers the entire lot, it's virtually impossible to make the entire
building accessible. But they do have--they are able to get in the first floor off the back
without using steps.
Kanner/So, how many of all these units are universal designs?
Boothroy/All of the apartment building units are universal design--that'd be nine units--and 26
and 27, so that would be 11, and then all of the other units, like the townhouse units, the
first floor is accessible but the second floor cannot be. So it's not 100 percent universal
design, just the first floor, access to the first floor.
Kanner/So first floors on all those units---
Boothroy/Yes, first floor on every unit in the---
Franklin/And the apartment building---
Boothroy/Has an elevator.
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Kanner/And these are--are they being done voluntarily or are they doing it as part of our
ordinance?
Franklin/Both.
Boothroy/Well. Yeah, I would say, OK, both.
(Laughter)
Boothroy/I didn't know he asked it in (can't hear). That was my question.
Franklin/(Can't hear)
Boothroy/Yeah, both.
Pfab/I have one question on the over-under or the two-story one, is there a bedroom on the first
floor?
Boothroy/What I mean over-under is that the dwelling unit number 1 is on the first floor;
dwelling unit number 2 is on the second floor.
Pfab/OK. The first floor---
Boothroy/So the first floor is 100 percem accessible. The second floor has the wider hallways,
doorways and all that kind of stuff but it doesn't have a lift to getting people up to it.
Pfab/But what about the---
Vanderhoef/Townhouses.
Pfab/Yeah, the townhouses. Is there a bedroom available on the first floor and that's a part of the
design?
Boothroy/You know, honestly, I don't remember the design of that whether there is or not.
Pfab/In other words can a person live with a disability, can they live on the first floor?
Boothroy/It's been so long since I looked at it, I just don't recall.
Pfab/I mean, that's a question I'd like to have---
O'Donnell/I don't think there's a bedroom there, is there, Connie?
Champion/No. Not all people with disabilities need a wheelchair.
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Boothroy/Right.
O'Donnell/No.
Champion/And I think that there's some---
Boothroy/I would guess that there is no bedroom on the first floor of the townhouse units but I
just don't remember.
Lehman/Thank you, Doug.
Vanderhoef/Karin, while you're here, that--tell me, the interior streets, not the Foster Road piece
but the interior streets, how wide are those?
Franklin/Uh, 25.
Vanderhoef/OK. Thanks.
Lehman/Okey-doke.
L CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY PLAT OF
COUNTRY CLUB ESTATES, SECOND ADDITION. (SUB02-00011)
Franklin/OK. Item lis a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Country Club Estates. This
is out on the west side. It is a subdivision that consists of 16.65 acres, 42 residential lots,
and I'll just note the location--it comes off of the existing Southwest Estates. There is still
an area to be developed that is owned by the same developer which comes up, oop, I
didn't want to do that.
Lehman/My computer does that too. I understand.
Franklin/Had a twitch. That comes all the way down to Rohret Road, that that is yet to be
developed, and this is very faint but it's in your packets. Maybe it doesn't show up any
better in yours. This is the concept plan for the whole thing. Now there's still a number of
issues to be worked through with this in terms of how this all works in here and what
happens down here. So what you're looking at now for the preliminary plat is just these
42 lots which are an extension of what is already developed here. Down here is where the
swimming pool is.
Pfab/I believe there's some land to be dedicated, right?
Franklin/Well, neighborhood open space was one of the issues, of course, that we look at with
every subdivision and the conclusion of that discussion was that of the 17,113 square
feet, that's how much is required by the Neighborhood Open Space Ordinance, that that
should be pooled and included in future development. Now they've got a number of areas
here, that's kind of the--that's the community pool area--this area down here, it looks like
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there's something here but I'm not exactly sure because I can't read the writing on it. But
it would be put together with other spaces as this development proceeds to get one larger
area as opposed to just 17,000 square feet.
Pfab/So the City still, there's still enough that is left to fulfill those requirements?
Franklin/Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, quite a bit.
Pfab/The other thing is--now I'm just looking at it--I didn't think of it earlier--how easy is it
going to be for people from all of those spots to get to that area, where people are going
to end up---
Franklin/ Well, the main point that they're going to be coming from is either at this point here
where you'd be coming from Wild Prairie Estates, I think is what this is called over here,
or from Rohret Road into--this is Phoenix Drive--and one of the things that was also
discussed with secondary access and when we start to require that and I think, as I recall,
it was like we could have 45 more lots before secondary access was required by our
standards. This is 42 lots, so the developer's been put on notice. Before anything more
can be done, we need to have secondary access to this which we would want to have
coming down Lakeshore Drive in this fashion down to Rohret Road, because Slothaure is
not improved. Now, if the timing is such that Slothaure is improved, then that secondary
access could be via Slothaure.
Pfab/OK. Then I guess I didn't make myself quite clear.
Franklin/OK. I'm sorry.
Pfab/ How far is the lot that has to come farthest to common community property or dedicated
planned, how far away is the farthest lot inside of that (can't hear)?
Franklin/Well, technically, it's this one over--well, I don't know, because you've got the pool
area here. and then you've got the playground and park area and wild prairie over here,
so--maybe this one up here? I don't know how far that is.
Pfab/My point is if there's young children in that, it could be a fairly quiet neighborhood, are
they going to be able to move through the neighborhood without being accessible
distance?
Franklin/Well, remember these are all fairly good sized lots, too, so they'll have yards to play in,
but they've got the sidewalk system. This, I don't know what to tell you, other than that
probably this lot here is going to be the farthest one from anywhere.
Pfab/(Can't hear) was looking at and that's---
Franklin/OK.
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Champion/They also have the school grounds to play on.
Lehman/Right.
Franklin/Yes.
Kanner/Karin, is the proposal to have the open space in the Country Club Estates?
Franklin/Yes.
Kanner/I see in the concept plan one municipal site up in the northwest.
Franklin/That is for a--no that's a storage, water storage reservoir that we have purchased.
Karmer/OK. So I don't see the public land that's open to anyone in the City.
Franklin/Well, this would be--it's not a citywide park. It is the neighborhood open space, which
of course would be open to anyone, just as it is in Windsor Ridge where you've got space
that feels like it's part of that neighborhood. But anybody can go to Windsor Ridge and
use that open space.
Kanner/Owned by the City.
Franklin/Right.
Kanner/Where is---
Franklin/ OK. Where is it that they're going to dedicate?
Kanner/...the City-owned land, I don't see that.
Franklin/At this point it's right in this area, I believe.
Kanner/That's a storm water.
Franklin/That will be one thing we'll have to work out for the rest of the concept. See, this
concept plan is not being adopted at this time. All we wanted was to make sure that
whatever was being approved did not preclude further development and so the decision
that has come out of Parks and Rec and Planning and Zoning is that rather than take that
small 17,000 square feet, which would be a little bit bigger than one of these lots, and
have that be the neighborhood open space, that that be combined with other land as this
project proceeds, because you've got all of this to deal with yet that is not platted.
Champion/I think that's a good idea.
Lehman/Makes sense.
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Pfab/Yes.
Champion/That's a good idea.
Pfab/Well, again, what my point was--the way this is going, could some people in that
neighborhood be a long distance from the---
Franklin/Well, remember you've got the school ground over here so---
Pfab/All right. Is it, as long as they're within reasonable somewhere's---
Franklin/Mm-hmm.
Kanner/But it seemed to me that was a big issue, the future concept plan and where space might
be and then it doesn't appear to be in here.
Franklin/Because it wasn't resolved as to where exactly that space would be, but that the
concept was that it would be somewhere in this larger area to get a bigger piece. So the
obligation is still there.
Champion/(can't hear)
Vanderhoef/And the requirement---
Champion/...in that area, they're going to wait until they do the rest of it so the area can be
bigger.
Wilburn/And that's something that Parks and Rec has recommended to us before.
Champion/That's a great idea. You can---
Franklin/Yeah.
Vanderhoef/And neighborhood open space plan also is very specific in that it's to be not little
pieces--it's to be a 5- to 7-acre area for parkland so that it's big enough to use for a park.
Franklin/Mm-hrnm.
Kanner/That's why I just have some concern that there's a conceptual plan here for the future
development and doesn't, and it leaves out.
Champion/But it's not valid. It won't be that way, isn't that right, Karin?
Dilkes/Your only option at this---
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Kanner/(can't hear) it's written down and it sort of has a life of its own and unless there's
something written in that's maybe inset this plan that we're going to have future space in
the rest of their land out here.
Dilkes/It will be written down. It will be written down on the legal papers. It's just that the exact
location has not been identified. Your only option at this point would be to take the
dedication for only the small plat that's being done right now.
Kanner/Eleanor, how is it written down then in what we're going to---?
Dilkes/In the legal papers for the subdivision, that requirement will be addressed.
Franklin/But what you're approving right now, what's before you tomorrow night, is the
preliminary plat.
Dilkes/Right.
Franklin/And it's in the final--it's in the papers for the final plat of this that the 17,113 square
foot obligation will be stated and that it is an obligation that has not been satisfied in this
part but will be satisfied in subsequent parts of the development. I'm trying to think of
the other ones we've done this on. Galway Hills, we've done it this way. Hunter's Run,
we did it this way where you take--and Hunter's Run was something that started even
before we had neighborhood open space--but you take the obligation of the larger
property and try to put it to--Windsor Ridge, the north of Court Street and Windsor
Ridge, the open space obligation has been shifted to the square that is to be created in
Lower West Branch Road.
Kanner/So the final plat though will have the language saying that per the Open Space
Ordinance you have to have this many feet for this and that in future properties it will be
combined on your other properties.
Franklin/Correct.
Kanner/...somewhere, that will have it, OK.
Franklin/Correct.
Kanner/And that will come probably in four to six months or so to complete?
Franklin/However fast they want this thing to go. This whole area has moved rather slowly.
Pfab/I think what you're referring to--and Windsor Ridge is the one that I started to get
concerned about, how far the distance some of the neighborhood open spaces were.
Franklin/Mmm.
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Pfab/When they were built, when you were watching that, some of them were 15, 20, 30 lots
away from any open space. And it---
Vanderhoef/But the plan calls for half mile, up to a half mile, is the ideal---
Franklin/Right.
Vanderhoef/...for that neighborhood.
Franklin/Mm-hmm. Are we done with this one?
Karr/Just to clarify, there is a typo on that one. It is Cotmtry Club Estates, not County Club.
Franklin/Oh.
Champion/None of us even noticed that.
Franklin/No.
Vanderhoef/For sure.
Franklin/Throughout it's Cotmty, isn't it?
Karr/Mm-hmm.
Franklin/Good catch. Yeah, consistent.
Lehman/OK.
g. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING TItE FINAL PLAT OF VILLAGE
GREEN PART 19. (SUB03-00029)
Franklin/OK. Village Green, item g is the resolution approving the final plat of Village Green
Part IX. We're going to ask you to defer that because the legal papers and construction
drawings are not completed.
Lehman/Deferred.
Vanderhoef/To what date?
Franklin/To September 9th. The next meeting.
Lehman/OK.
h. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION EXTENDING APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY
PLAT OF VILLAGE GREEN PART XX.
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Franklin/Item h is to consider a resolution extending the approval of the preliminary plat of
Village Green Part XX. There has not been a significant, if any, change in the regulations
since we approved that subdivision initially. And so the recommendation is to grant that
extension on that preliminary plat.
i. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF WINDSOR
RIDGE, PART 17B. (SUB03-00031)
j. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF WINDSOR
RIDGE, PART 1BB. (SUB03-00032)
k. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF WINDSOR
RIDGE, PART 19A. (SUB03-00033)
Franklin/Item i--well, I'll do i, j, and k all together. These are all in Windsor Ridge and the
location map that is on the screen shows the area in which they are located. And they are
separate plats; however, they are generally for duplex condominiums. This is part 17B
and this is for 10 units so it would be five duplexes on there; 18B is four units and private
open space in out-lot C, which is here, and that was to get a walkway through. And then
19A is for six units. And those are all ready to go. And I'm done.
Lehman/I just--why wasn't that all one?
Franklin/I don't know.
Lehman/That was---
Franklin/Now, sometimes what happens is that developers will submit a plat separately so that, a
final plat, so that they are obligated in terms of improvements to do just that part and they
won't have to escrow for the improvements that they don't want to have further. But this
one, they're all connected.
Lehman/Yeah, it don't make any sense.
Franklin/But, you know, we got application fees for all three.
Lehman/All right. Good.
Vanderhoef/Excuse me. Yeah. Can we move Council Time? I see it's back down at the bottom
and I'd like to talk about while Karin is---
Lehman/ Well, yeah, when we get through with P and Z.
Vanderhoef/We're down on here at the end of the meeting.
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Lehman/No, no, I know that, but when we get through with P and Z, we can move it. I think we
can. Yeah, I guess, Steve.
O'Donnell/Why can't you ask the question now? What's the question?
Vanderhoef/Well, there's two things that I've got for Council Time that I've talked with Karin
about.
Franklin/We're done with the P and Z stuff.
Lehman/Oh.
Vanderhoef/Yeah. That's why I was asking.
Franklin/Unless there's anything else.
Vanderhoef/OK.
Lehman/Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was through. OK, oh, no, let's do agenda items. Do
you have some place to be right away or are you going to the Dairy Queen, too?
Franklin/No. I'd just love to stay.
(Laughter)
O'Dormell/Do you have a life?
Lehman/Seriously, are you here for anything else?
Franklin/No.
Lehman/All right. Then let's go ahead and do Council Time right now.
COUNCIL TIME
Lehman/Go ahead.
CONSENT CALENDAR #2g(11)
Vanderhoef/OK. Two things. In our Consent Calendar we have this proposal to have one-sided
parking on this street on a private interior street that is 22 feet wide, and in discussing it
with Kafin, I would like to see this--any streets that are fire-safety folk or any of our
safety folk--think is too narrow to get their vehicles through there appropriately, that we
ought to just have it as a piece of the zoning code that if you build those streets to that
size, they will all be single-sided parking.
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Pfab/How wide?
Vanderhoef/Twenty-two.
Franklin/Well, we talked about it a little bit and what we're in the process of doing the
Subdivision Regulations.
Lehman/Do we want to put this on for a discussion at a work session?
Franklin/You're giving me an evil look--what?
Lehman/One, two, three, four. OK, you've got it. And we've kept Eleanor reasonable.
Dilkes/I wasn't even there yet. ! was---
(Laughter)
Franklin/Oh, you read her mind. You have us all petrified.
Lehman/We're ahead of you. All right. That'll be on a work session.
Vanderhoef/OK, then the second thing when I started looking at Country Club Estates and that
west side park, I talked with Karin also and I would like to have work session---
Lehman/Thank you.
Vanderhoef/...specifically on west side inter-related things which include Slothower Road as
possible arterial. I want to look at landfill land. I want to look at lift stations because this
next one creates a lift station or what we're going to do with sewering in that area. So, I
think we need a long-range look at what we're going to do out on the west side and how
that might fit into our growth area.
Lehman/Well, you want to talk about that?
O'Donnell/Sure.
Lehman/Yes, you got it. OK.
Franklin/She's got it.
Lehman/We just gave it to you then.
Franklin/Oh. Thank you.
Atkins/Ernie, are we going to come back to Council Time a little later on or---
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Lehman/We're doing it right now.
Atkins/...because I have an item for you.
Wilburn/Can I go?
Lehman/Go ahead.
Atkins/It's your turn.
Wilburn/I just want to let Council know that tomorrow night I've got the orientation for new
parents at Southeast Junior High. I'll do my best to make it here; I don't know how long
it's supposed to run, but ifI can make it back, I'll make it back.
Lehman/We're proud of you.
(Laughter)
Wilburn/I'll bring my oxygen mask and see how well I do as a parent of a junior high person.
Lehman/At that pool.
Wilburn/The other thing I should add is in Thursday's packet this week, I'll put a summary of
the alcohol committee, the Community Alcohol Committee. We had a meeting last
Friday and I'll let you know some of what we discussed and who is on that group.
Lehman/OK. Steve?
Atkins/In your PCRB Ordinance there is a provision for Council review of the PCRB, requiring
you to evaluate their effectiveness, etc. They've just finished their annual report and
while it calls for it in August, I don't think that's important as you actually do the review.
I thought about scheduling it for your next work session, give you their annual report;
you'll have something then to work with; then you can give us instructions as staff and I
suspect just probably as a courtesy you should invite the PCRB to be here. If that's OK
with you, I'll set it up in that fashion.
Lehman/Fine.
Wilburn/Fine.
Pfab/OK.
Atkins/All right. That's all I had, Ernie.
Lehman/Anything else for Council time?
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Champion/Well, I just wanted to ask a question. I'm a little confused about the state of the
Alcohol Ordinance. Karin?
Atkins/Oh, never mind. Never mind. Wrong item in the agenda. I didn't say oh.
Lehman/We didn't hear anything.
(Laughter)
Champion/Maybe I misunderstand the ordinance, but wasn't it if 50 percent of your profits from
alcohol, no one under 19 can be in there after 10:00 o'clock?
O'Donnell/That's the way I understand it.
Wilburn/Yeah. That's right.
Champion/Is that the way you understand it?
Vanderhoef/Yeah.
Wilbum/Yeah.
Pfab/Because you stop profiting (can't hear----until 12:00)
Dilkes/In other words, you start by saying all licensed establishments, licensed for on-premises
consumption, are covered. You can get an exemption from the ordinance---
Champion/ OK.
Dilkes/...if you file the affidavit of the accountant and provide any additional paperwork---
Champion/OK.
Dilkes/...the police chief wants to show that your gross sales from food and other services--
remember the bowling alley exception--in quotes--exceed 50 pement of your revenue.
Champion/That clears it up for me because on a lot of restaurants now it says that 19-year-olds
aren't allowed there after 10:00 o'clock, and I thought there's no way that 50 percent of
their profits are from alcohol. But they haven't filed for an exemption.
Dilkes/If they haven't filed for an exemption--so an establishment should have one of two
things. They should have the notice saying 19-year-olds have to be out after 10:00 or
their exception certificate, and those are standard forms.
Champion/I totally understand now.
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Pfab/(can't hear) Connie, I think though the term you're using is "profits," you shouldn't say it.
Lehman/But---
Champion/OK, well.
Pfab/I don't know what's the difference.
Dilkes/Gross receipts.
Lehman/Whatever.
Dilkes/I know you're trying to understand it.
O'Donnell/I understood it, Connie.
Champion/It's gross receipts so it isn't a profit?
Lehman/No. But that's all right.
Champion/Yeah.
Lehman/OK. Other Council time issues?
14. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TIlE MAYOR TO SIGN AND TIlE
CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PRECONSTRUCTION AGREEMENT FOR TIlE STREET BRIDGE
RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT OVER RALSTON CREEK {BRF-1-5(54)--38-
52).
Vanderhoef/How much land are we buying for the widening of the Street bridge?
Dilkes/We can do that under Agenda Items. Do you want to go there now7
Pfab/Not quite yet.
Vanderhoef/Excuse me.
Lehman/Is there anything else for Council time? There's an item on the, for a future work
session I'd like to see us address sooner rather than later. The regulation of downtown
dumpsters.
Champion/I love it.
Lehman/I walked out here through the alley again tonight and you almost need to wear boots in
the summer.
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Champion/It's awful.
Lehman/And this is Monday night, and those gage---
Atkins/I did send them, all the haulers, and they seemed to clean up, and it seems like we're
going back into the (can't hear)
Lehman/There's been a couple of times when those dumpsters are stacked three feet above the
top of the dumpsters and stuff is (can't hear).
Atkins/Yes. Well, the difficulty, Ernie, is that they're not getting them disposed of promptly. I
mean, it's their responsibility. I mean, they just--well, it is their problem but you're
making it our problem now because you don't like it.
Lehman/It is a problem for all of us when trash flows all over the downtown.
Atkins/Yes. Well, it's a problem when they open the door and throw out ice with bottle caps
and---
Lehman/Right. That's exactly right. But I don't know where we are, but I'd love to see us
address that.
Atkins/Well, we were trying to do it by let's be good citizens--and it doesn't seem to be
happening.
Lehman/Well, let's continue to be better citizens and see if they will be. That's a problem.
Pfab/At this work session, do we extend out a little with the idea of taking a hard look at the
City being responsible?
Atkins/We have talked about that, Irvin. That would have to be on the table, I would think.
Lehman/It could be part of the discussion.
Pfab/I'm asking if that could be.
Atkins/Sure.
Pfab/Because I think that that would help a lot in a lot of different ways.
O'Donnell/Is this a particular day, Ernie?
Champion/Did you know---
Lehman/No. It's just--the weekends are worse.
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O'Donnell/Does it, I would assume you're talking---
Atkins/Monday mornings are terrible.
O'Donnell/...Mondays would be the (can't hear) problem.
Lehman/I'm walking out here at 5:30, quarter till 6:00, and it's all over the alleys, and they're
stacked above the top, and this is Monday (can't hear).
Champion/I tell you, part of the problem is not the haulers and it's not the people that own the
dumpsters. A lot of the problem is people dumping trash in dumpsters that belong to them
or on top of them or whatever. I had--I mean I had a dumpster downtown and the main
person putting trash in my dumpster was the University.
Lehman/We've got to do this on a work session.
Dilkes/A work session, I think.
Atkins/A work session? All fight. OK.
REVIEW AGENDA ITEMS
Lehman/All right. Agenda items and somebody had something.
ITEM 11. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 6, CHAPTER 1
(NUISANCES) OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF TIlE CITY OF IOWA
CITY BY ADDING STANDARDS AND PROCEDURES TO CONTROL TIlE
NUMBER OF VEHICLES PARKED, STORED, PLACED, OR KEPT OUTSIDE
ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Atkins/I had one Agenda item to give you a head's up on, if you were going to discuss the
nuisance automobile storage, you should do that now.
Lehman/Yes.
Atkins/Because we don't have a separate item. Just to remind you that you do have that up for a
vote tomorrow night.
Champion/I thought that was on the work session.
Lehman/Well, I would like to---
Atkins/It is work--Connie, we didn't show it as a separate item but I wanted to flag it because
you indicated you wanted to talk about it.
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Pfab/Is that on here?
Atkins/Yeah, number 11.
Champion/It's on the Agenda.
(Several talk)
Pfab/OK.
O'Donnell/It's number 10 or 11.
Lehman/I don't know but I would like to suggest that we ask that the staff, if Council agrees, to
investigate the possibility of some sort of vegetative screening for those vehicles during
that parking prohibition and send it back to the (can't hear) staff.
Vanderhoef/Well, I would think that's a positive step forward in trying to get these hidden from
the neighbor's view.
O'Donnell/You know, you can do that but does that not set a precedence for every other
property in Iowa City?
Lehman/Yeah, I'm not sure it's a bad one. We put vegetative screening around transformers; we
do it all over town where we feel that---
O'Dormell/Transformers are a little bit different than 15 cars.
Lehman/Well, but the idea of the screening is to screen those from public view (can't hear)
O'Donnell/How about from the backyard?
Vanderhoef/That, too. I mean---
O'Donnell/Now we're going to tell people what vegetation they're going to grow in the
backyard and how high it's going to be.
Lehman/Well, I don't know that we'd tell them what, but I think (can't hear) he plans to take
that--if you store cars in your front yard or boats or---
Vanderhoef/Backyard.
O'Donnell/School buses or whatever, Emie, I mean I think it kind of opens the door and sets a
precedence for the rest of the town.
Kanner/Those SUVs are awfully big.
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O'Donnell/There's only one of them, Steven.
Kanner/The point is why not a school bus if it's working and operating. That's the issue, I think.
Let's just vote it down if you so find or vote it up.
O'Donnell/I don't care about one--well, I do care about one school bus, but if you multiply that
times 10 or if you have 12. I mean, that does make a difference to me. I don't think that
there's many people in the community that would like that in the yard next door to them.
Kanner/I think there's a lot of things that people have different takes about and I think it's going
a little too far. But, yeah, Emie, I don't think planting something is the issue, is going to
solve this issue in a fundamental way. I think we should just vote the ordinance down. I
think it's been a bad ordinance to start with, and I don't think that is going to work.
Lehman/What do you suggest? That we allow used car lots in the front yards of residential
neighborhoods?
Kanner/Well, no, because we have zoning against businesses like that, that are prohibit used car
lots.
Lehman/Well, yeah, I was being facetious. Obviously storing six or eight vehicles in front of a
home gives the appearance of a used car lot. Are you saying that's acceptable in a
residential neighborhood?
Kanner/I'm saying there are a lot of things. Perhaps I don't like the astro turf that people use. I
think that's really bad for the neighborhood, but I'm not going to make a law to not allow
it. I think it's kind of tacky perhaps. But I don't think we need to pass a law against it, so
i think that we need to vote this down and just get rid of it.
Lehman/What you're saying then, you would not object in a residential neighborhood to having
anybody who wants to have eight or ten cars parked in the front yard. You think that's
OK?
Kanner/No, I think that I would, as a neighbor, I would talk with them and try to work it out.
Lehman/If they all decide that they don't want to talk about it, it's OK to have a residential
neighborhood with a front yard full of cars.
Kanner/I don't think we should be so overbearing as a government. Our role as a government
entity is different than my role as an individual and I think it's not our place to outlaw
properly operating. It's not affecting the health and the well-being of the neighbors.
Lehman/Same thing can be said of zoning ordinances period.
Kanner/Right and, what--and I think there's a line that's drawn at certain places of zoning too
far, and I think that that's where the government intrudes too much in there. I think our
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August 18, 2003 Council Work Session Page 25
main concem should be health and safety, and certainly we do zone for aesthetics to a
certain extent, but I think this is going too far because, again, there's a lot of different
things that people are upset about. Different types of furniture, different types of lawn
decoration. And I think that's one of those things that are just stepping too far over the
line.
Lehman/But then, how do you feel about Sensitive Areas Ordinance where we're going to
require so many trees, that we replace trees, and whatever.
Kanner/I think the use---
Lehman/You support that very strongly.
Kanner/I do support it.
Lehman/And I do, too, by the way. Well, what's your pleasure, folks?
Pfab/I'm, I think I'm going to support Steve, but maybe I would come down even a little
stronger. I think that this ordinance is a problem for the City, and I don't think it's a
problem for the neighborhoods as much as it is for us as City government. I think we are
putting ourself in great jeopardy by going down the road we have, because if you go back
and go through the history of that family living there, I think that the City itself does not
have anything to be very proud about.
Lehman/We're only dealing with the issue of cars in the front yard.
Pfab/No, no, it's a lot more than that.
Lehman/No, it isn't. From the Council's perspective that's all that's before us. I've never been
involved in anything relative to this property other than the issue of cars in the front yard.
Pfab/I don't think all of us sitting here at the table can say that.
Champion/Well, I can.
Pfab/I think we, the quicker we vote this thing down and get on with our life and leave the
neighbors and those people, let that family live their life, and let the neighbors work it out
with them. I don't know how many of them ever spoke to them or anything like that, but
I'll tell you, this is not a pretty picture when you get down into it.
Lehman/I sense that to be true. What's the pleasure of the Council?
Vanderhoef/I have a question for Eleanor. What is our Code on storage, outdoor storage? I know
there's something on the books about RVs, but what I'm---
Dilkes/I think Doug can probably answer that better than I can. I think they deal with that a lot.
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Vanderhoef/When there's a boat and trailers and trucks that are not moved for a whole year,
what---
Boothroy/There's a provision in the Zoning ordinance that provides for proper storage of RVs
on private property. My recollection and I wrote the ordinance but it's been so many
years ago I don't remember all the details, but my recollection is that that storage must be
in the rear yard unless you can't get access to the rear yard. Then it can be in the front,
but then it has to be---
Lehman/ The triangle that it can't interfere with---
Boothroy/It has to be back from the street so that it doesn't block view of the sidewalk when
you're backing out and there's some landscaping requirements along the side lot line if
it's in the front. So, there's quite a few that you would find in the front yard because
there's a lot of lots in Iowa City that don't have access to the rear yards. So what they do
is they come in and file a site plan with us; we approve the site plan; we put it on file. If
we get a complaint, we look to see whether or not they have an approved site plan for the
storage of the RV apparatus or vehicle or whatever you want to call it.
Vanderhoef/But that only applies to RVs. So it doesn't apply to a boat---
TAPE 03-63, SiDE 1
Dilkes/I'll look into the ordinance. I can't remember but it wouldn't address this.
Boothroy/No, it doesn't address this issue at all.
Dilkes/In fact, we looked at all these; we looked at the Inoperable Vehicle Ordinance and all
those kinds of things. None of them on the books address this particular thing.
Kanner/But it's a model that, Ernie,---
Vanderhoef/The boat thing doesn't even when it's not even moved.
Boothroy/They're allowed to store--what the history on that was that we got a number of
complaints, several complaints of what these large motor homes that were stored between
the garage, in some cases, with pictures of them, they were so long that they were
actually out over the sidewalk. And neighbors were complaining because they couldn't
either back out of their driveway and see, they thought it was a hazard, which it was a
hazard in the sense it was over the sidewalk. And so we had a number of meetings with
the Council involved, and finally we put together a subcoramittee that I was involved
with that met and came up with these regulations and then had a series of neighborhood
meetings. Then it came back to Council as adopted. And that's been maybe 10 years ago
or SO.
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Lehman/Oh, we did that in the early '70s.
Boothroy/I believe that's the case--Bud Means was one of the individuals that was involved at
that time.
Vanderhoef/Yeah, well, it's the word "storage."
Boothroy/But it is allowed under those certain circumstances and we came up with some
standards, too.
Vanderhoef/But backyard there's nothing.
Boothroy/Pardon me?
Vanderhoef/If it's in the backyard---
Boothroy/It'd still have to be on a defined surface. They are (can't hear) allowed to use gravel
but under those circumstances it has to be contained within a, some kind of perimeter,
fixed perimeter, so that it doesn't scatter onto the neighbor's property and all those kinds
O'Donnell/What about the dust?
Boothroy/The what?
O'Donnell/The dust.
Boothroy/Well, because it's stored, how it came down was that because the vehicle's stored for
long periods of time, you don't have movement in and out like you do with regular
parking. And so, therefore, it's not as likely to be a problem. So what you could have is
just a space that's maintained in the backyard that would be presentable and not a
nuisance to the neighborhood. What we're trying to do is make sure that they're moved
back from the sidewalk, that there was, if they're out in front of the house that there was
some landscaping. But it's not the same issue that we're dealing with here except that in
this situation we recognize the capability of storing recreational vehicles on your
property, if you met certain standards.
O'Donnell/So, are you saying that pour a pad, a foundation that you're able to park the car on
that? Is that what I'm hearing?
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
O'Donnell/You can gravel or pour a pad?
Boothroy/For recreational vehicles only, not for just automobiles. You can't park them on
gravel, no. You can't create a gravel surface for automobiles.
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Champion/We have gravel driveways on Summit Street.
Boothroy/Well, a lot of those are grandfathered because prior to 1978, I think it was, single-
family duplexes could have gravel driveways. After '78 it became paved.
Champion/I like the idea of(can't hear). I'm not going to support the ordinance as it's written. I
would like to see some, it seems to be a good neighbor would provide screening. And I
think what really changed my mind about this ordinance is that because I live in an older
part of town and a couple houses down from me, you know, the backyard has been
mowed for 15 years. My other neighbor builds stuff constantly on his driveway. And I
thought, you know, you never hear complaints about that in these older neighborhoods.
People kind of let people do their thing. And it does, and I drive by that particular house
we're talking about and all those ordinances is for everybody in town. I mean it's (can't
hear) over there. But I would, as a good neighbor, I have screened my yard. So it, I would
like to see some type of screening happen. I'm not so sure whether you do that with an
ordinance or whether we suggest it. You have--how can you force people to do that?
Pfab/I think, Connie, if you go back and check the history, that was suggested by the owner.
And that property was a probable (can't hear) before the owner ever arrived. The
neighbors did not like that piece of property that was there and it was a sore spot, and it
just kept festering and festering and festering. And these people are as much a victim of
that as can possibly be. And the neighbors, some of them weren't very neighborly. And if
you go to the police record, you will find that out.
Champion/I don't think that's part of what we're really talking about here.
Lehman/Well, I guess--all right, is there enough interest to ask the staff to look into a screening?
Vanderhoef/I would like to look into screening.
O'Donnell/You know, are we saying that if you're driving your car and you're lucky enough to
make it home then, you can just pull it into your front yard and leave it? I mean, is that
what we're saying?
Champion/Hard surface.
Lehman/You've got a hard surface parking lot there.
O'Donnell/Well, I know, Emie, but we are addressing the city.
Lehman/Right.
O'Donnell/And you know and if tonight on the way home, if my car breaks down, I can pull it
into our front yard and just leave it there. Is that what we're saying?
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Pfab/On the side of the driveway.
Lehman/I don't think you can do that anyway.
Boothroy/No, this ordinance is talking about what you said earlier, Ernie, which is the total
number of vehicles that are being stored on the property. You would still need to have a
hard surface for your driveway and your parking spaces. So you couldn't--if we got a
complaint on a car stored on the front lawn, we would go out and investigate it and do
whatever we need to do to take care of it. And we're going to be seeing a lot of that
coming up here in the next few weeks.
Champion/Yes.
Boothroy/It's quite common in the fall.
Lehman/But if in other words, if we have a parking area, hard surface located in the front yard
that has more than a certain number of cars, we could require that it be screened.
Boothroy/That's what you're suggesting.
Champion/Yes.
Lehman/That's what I'm suggesting.
Boothi'oy/But there's no requirement for that now.
Lehman/Not that we limit the number of vehicles, but that we limit those visible from the street.
The driveway would still be visible obviously, you could have two cars in the driveway,
you could have four cars in the driveway. But if you've got six or eight vehicles parked
on a hard surface parking lot, if you will, in front of your house, you're going to have to
screen it from the street.
Boothroy/But they can also be in the backyard too, which you're suggesting screening in the
backyard as well from the neighbors.
Vanderhoef/Absolutely.
Boothroy/I assume. I don't know if---
Vanderhoeff If they're storing vehicles on a hard surface in either front or backyard, it needs to
be screened, because there are neighbors on both sides.
O'Donnell/And the sides, for that matter.
Pfab/And what do you decide, define as storage? It's a (can't hear) supposed to be driven, got
out and driven around.
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Wilbum/Can I ask one clarifying question here?
Champion/Mm-hmm.
Wilbtma/Connie, are you saying that you're going to regardless of the conversation that's
happening now about screening, that you're not going to vote for this? So, we've got that
there's four right there who are---
Lehman/Who would vote for screening.
Champion/Oh, I would sit here and vote for screening; I won't vote for the ordinance as it's
written.
Wilburn/Oh, so my question is, are you saying unless there's a conversation about modifying
this to some type of screening that you're--I mean, as it is now, if you're saying I'm not
going to vote for this period, this gets defeated. There's four votes and if I don't make it
here in time, it fails for not. So I guess---
Champion/Yes, but I am in a (can't hear) vote.
Wilburrf Are you suggesting then---
Champion/That then there would---
Wilburn/...pursuing something separate, a new ordinance?
Champion/Yes.
Wilburn/OK. I see what you're saying.
Boothroy/We do have parking lot screening requirements so--we do have standards in the
ordinance that deal with parking lot screening.
Lehman/How did we define a parking lot?
Vanderhoef/Good question.
Boothroy/Well, I know how it's defined, I'm trying to remember if it's four or more or more
than four.
Lehman/Well, is that covered by a present ordinance that we require screening?
Boothroy/Well, the--we don't think it does because of it doesn't meet the design standards and
it's not required parking. It's just parking that's being--it's a driveway essentially and so I
don't believe it makes the definition of parking area. At least, that's not the way we've
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looked at it.
O'Donnell/Would the size of the screen, Doug, make a difference?
Boothroy/Pardon me?
O'Donnell/Would the size of the screen make a difference determined on the location of the lot?
Boothroy/Well, I think that if you were---
O'Donnell/(can't hear) versus a comer?
Boothroy/Well, I think if you were looking at topographical difference, we require in some
cases, (can't hear) arborvitae and they can grow to be 20, 25 feet tall.
O'Donnell/But not on a comer lot.
Boothroy/But not on a comer lot. Some communities when they--other communities do regulate
the number of vehicles that are stored and some don't allow them in the side yard because
of the close proximity to the next door neighbor. Many of them don't allow it in the front
but only allow it in the rear. And then they require, sometimes they require screening.
Sometimes they don't. So then you have a limitation like we're talking. So that there's ali
kinds of alternatives that are looked at. Some communities don't curb control of it at all,
as we didn't. So there's lots of models to look at and it's your choice.
O'Donnell/! don't think---
Wilburn/Are we asking is there enough interest to have staff pursue this?
Lehman/I think that's exactly what we're asking. Is there enough interest in addressing the issue
of numerous cars parked in the front yard or backyard or side yard? To address some
method of dealing with that, such as screening. Is there four people who are interested in
that?
Vanderhoef/And possibly numbers. So I would say just defer what we have right now.
Champion/I don't want to defer it.
Lehman/No, I don't want to defer it. I want to send it to the staff. I mean, as far as I'm
c0ncemed---
Dilkes/But wait a minute. Screening is kind ora completely different idea than what this
ordinance is. In fact, if you think this ordinance is dead, then we need to repeal the one
that's on the books because, remember where we're at with this, is we have one on the
books, difficult to enforce. We're trying to make modifications to realize the Council's
intent in putting this ordinance in place. If you're now changing your position on that,
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then we need to, I think, get this ordinance offthe books and focus on the screening.
O'Donnell/So what you're saying is vote tomorrow night. I'm hearing at least four people---
Pfab/If you vote no, does that repeal it?
Wilbum/No.
Dilkes/No, no, no. You have to vote on the one that's before you and then I would on the next
agenda put a repeal of the existing one.
Pfab/OK, so I'm---
Wilburn/There's just one on the books now, but the language had to be changed.
Lehman/Right.
Pfab/So we're voting not to change it?
Kanner/No. Tonight or tomorrow night we would vote, if you want to get rid of the original
ordinance and the one that's being proposed tomorrow night, you would vote no
tomorrow night. And then Eleanor will put the original one for repeal on a future session
and you would vote to repeal it at a future date.
Pfab/OK, but---
Kanner/And that would get rid of the whole ordinance.
Pfab/Well, I thought you said the same thing in two different ways and I---
Vanderhoef/No.
Pfab/That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Lehman/We're voting on the amendment tomorrow night---
Pfab/Oh, OK. Now I understand.
Lehman/...that would have enabled us to enforce the present ordinance.
Pfab/OK. No, I understand.
Lehman/And there is not enough support to---
Pfab/Right. And I think then the next thing is move to repeal it.
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Kanner/Emie?
Lehman/Yes.
Vanderhoef/Well.
Kanner/What you're suggesting about screen, I think it is intriguing and it is a good discussion.
We talked about how far do we go with this study. I think we have perhaps different
thoughts on that. I would be willing to have that in a larger context. One of my possible
solutions is to support a mediation program, voluntary mediation, perhaps similar
somewhat perhaps to what with the nuisance ordinance. But a lot of cities fund volunteer
mediator or even paid mediators. They're people that work for the court now that are
doing programs. And if we could talk about something like that where parties that
someone in the neighborhood is uncomfortable with something that their neighbor is
doing, and there's voluntary mediation with some trained people, I look at that as a
positive solution. So if we have this discussion about screening and aesthetics and how
far do we go in a larger context, I would be agreeable to that. I think that would be a
positive thing to have.
O'Donnell/I think we just simply, if people do not support this, and they truly think it's OK to
park any amount of cars you want in your front yard, then we just vote no tomorrow
night.
Lehman/Well, I think that it's maybe a larger issue than that. Maybe this isn't the way we
address it. Is there another way that's more palatable and more acceptable?
O'Donnell/Well, I don't know, Ernie, if I really want to go in and tell somebody what kind of
screening they have to put in their yard.
Lehman/We tell them all the time in other places where we have screening.
O'Donnell/A transformer. This is considerably different. We're talking about more vehicles or a
larger area.
Pfab/But I think if you go back and look at the history, this owner had volunteered and (can't
hear) inquired about it, inquired about building a building to put them, house them all
inside. That was turned down. The screening was proposed by the owner, and that was
turned down. I think the best thing we can do is get rid of this and maybe step back and
then take another look at a lot of it.
Boothroy/But, Irvin, that was held up in court when we turned down that building permit for a
building that was much larger than his house to warehouse all those vehicles. He lost that
argument in court.
O'Donnell/That moves from a garage to a barn.
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Boothroy/It was bigger than a barn.
O'Donnell/Yeah.
Lehman/Well, what do we want to do? Is there interest in pursuing something that would
address the issue of cars in the front yard?
Champion/Yes.
Vanderhoeff Yes.
Lehman/All right. I guess we put it on a work session at some point.
Dilkes/Do I have three---
Lehman/Are there people who are concerned about too many cars in the front yard and some
other way of dealing with it?
Champion/I consider it about some other way of dealing with it.
Wilburn/I agree.
Vanderhoef/And I hope you would quit saying in the front yard. Stored on the property.
Lehman/Well, OK.
Vanderhoef/Please, because it's---
Lehman/Are there, we have three people who are interested in looking at this, is there a fourth
person who is interested?
Kanner/Well, you---
Dilkes/We only need three for a work session.
Atkins/For a work session.
Lehman/I guess we're not passing anything. It goes on a work session. All right, thank you.
Boothroy/So I get to spend more time on this, huh?
(Laughter)
Lehman/It maybe depends on the discussion at the work session.
Boothroy/I'll try to be even more creative next time.
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O'Donnell/I'd like to know if this is--be very specific on the type of vinery--whether it's a
clinging vine or it's a---
Boothroy/I think it'd be (can't hear) arborvitae because it's (can't hear) right now.
Lehman/May I suggest that we don't spend any time on it until after we talk about it?
Boothroy/I think that's probably a good---
Lehman/If we're going to do anything, I only hear three people interested in talking.
Boothroy/You are very wise.
Lehman/Thank you. Well, it'll save your time.
Kanner/I think--should it be a Hershey kisses blizzard or other type?
(Laughter)
Boothroy/Actually I am headed over there and I'm getting a Heath bar.
Lehman/How about a strawberry sundae?
O'Donnell/An Oreo blizzard.
Lehman/We're going to take a break until a quarter till 8:00.
Karr/Mr., can we just finish agenda real quick ifI may---
Lehman/Anything else on the agenda?
Kanner/ Well, I had a few things---
Kart/Oh, never mind.
Kanner/...but maybe we can take a break.
Lehman/OK.
ITEM 6. CONVEYANCE OF THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS PENINSULA
NEIGItBORHOOD, SECOND ADDITION, IN IOWA CITY, IOWA, OR
PORTION TItEREOF, TO TERRY L. STAMPER ItOLDINGS, L.L.C.
O'Donnell/Quickly, I wanted to talk about number 6 for just a second. We'll have the financing
plan in place for the second, for Phase 2, and I'd also like to know how many are sold in
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Phase 1.
Dilkes/Karin's been dealing with that but she is, we're only conveying the five lots that already
have infrastructure. And prior to that we will have a financing commitment and she's also
getting information about sales, etc.
Lehman/She's really done (can't hear)
Champion/I think we're on top of it, what exactly has been sold. Mike might want to (can't
hear)
Kanner/I had a few other things. Can we come in after the---
Champion/Yeah.
Pfab/Yeah.
Lehman/Let's get going again. Council appointments.
Kanner/Well, Ernie, I---
Lehman/ Right, Agenda items, Steven?
ITEM 2b(1). IOWA CITY BOARD OF APPEALS: DECEMBER 2
Kanner/The first thing was 2b(1) Board of Appeals minutes. Did they not meet, Marian, from
December 2nd to August that we didn't get any--that we're getting minutes from
December now?
Karr/Oh, I'd have to check to see. I can let you know tomorrow.
Karmer/I'd appreciate that. It's a long time. I guess they only meet when there's appeal in,
maybe there hasn't---
Karr/Right. And there hasn't been many---
Kanner/There haven't been many appeals or---
Karr/And you know what, Steven, in response to that, too, I do know that, as you'll note, we put
the draft in here because of the time constraints. They're not scheduled to meet again for
a couple of months, and I think that was the issue is that because of their infrequency of
meetings, we wanted to move quickly on getting these in order so that the next time they
meet, so it's very possible. But I'll sure check.
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Pfab/There's what--two or three issues?
Kanner/There was. Well, another issue I had from the minutes from August 4th, 262, I found
was interesting and might lead to future Council discussion was about a homeowner-
occupied repair work. You can't do electric work or plumbing work unless you're
licensed in our city unless you're the owner of the home and you're occupying it. Well,
this was a person who wanted to do work on their home who was not occupying it. This
was a home he bought, I guess, for fixing up. And he would have met the definition if he
was living there, but it wasn't occupy-able, and it's something that maybe we want to
discuss and allow that to, for him to repair that without actually living there.
Lehman/Is he going to live there when he gets it done?
Kanner/I think that's the point is to do it, or maybe to sell it eventually, but if he has the skills---
Lehman/Well, there's a significant "if," that's the whole issue, if he has the skills.
Pfab/Which if he did, it would have to be family if he was going to---
Dilkes/You're going to get into the whole issue there of renter or landlords who prepare their
own rental properties.
Pfab/I would suggest that if you were---
Lehman/Leave it alone.
Pfab/That was an interesting one.
Lehman/Go up there and let me tell you.
Pfab/Well, I didn't happen to check the notes but I was there, I was taping it. Unfortunately the
machine just didn't tape but that was an extremely interesting one.
Kanner/So do we, someone who is a homeowner-occupied person, wants to fix things, if they
don't--if they take out a building permit do we ask them any questions? If they have any
skills?
Lehman/We really do, if I'm not mistaken, Doug is gone after his Dairy Queen, but I know that
if you remodel in your own home and you want to do electrical or plumbing work, you
must do a, take a small written exam, not the same as you'd have to be a licensed
plumber and electrician, but you have to show some proficiency in your ability to do
wiring or plumbing or you cannot do it in the home that you live in. Because I tried to do
it. I decided not to take the test and hired somebody to do it.
Kanner/I think then and maybe we might have to limit it to structures that are 50 units or so
many more units or whatever or more, but it seems that if someone is an owner and has
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the skill to take this test whether they live in the home or outside the home, I think we
want to let them fix it if we feel that one is competent, why not let them do outside?
Lehman/But I think we hold a higher standard to people--if you're going to rent, if I'm going to
rent to you, I think that we as a community, we as a City, owe you the assurance of
knowing that the work done in that property was done by a licensed electrician or a
licensed plumber or whatever. Even though I may have a lot of skills for whatever and I
can pass the little test, I'm not sure that's the standard that we want for rental property.
Champion/But you can live in the house and do all the work and then rent it.
Lehman/That's quite right.
Pfab/A point here. There's also something else. The house wasn't inhabitable. There was no
electricity to it. There was no water to it, and it was a resident that had a problem. He
couldn't live--you can live--he could have repaired it if he lived there. But it wasn't--he
couldn't live there because it wasn't habitable.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
Pfab/So, anyway, this is not a simple. This was---
Kanner/So, you know, I'm wondering if there's any---
Pfab/Yeah, there was a lot more to that.
Kanner/...way to make it easier for some ofour---
Pfab/I don't think, I think the people were extremely fair, but he was very interested in what he
wanted to do. In fact, he claimed he was living in a little motor home, trailer, out on the
front sidewalk. But no, that's---
O'Donnell/It's OK with me.
(Laughter)
Champion/Was it on the pavement?
Pfab/It was on pavement.
Lehman/All right.
Vanderhoef/OK, there was a comment also in those minutes, Eleanor, that the State Supreme
Court ruled that the City had jurisdiction in the handicapped-accessibility issues and not
the state board. Does that do anything for the case where---
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Dilkes/That was our case. That was the Yacht Club case.
Vanderhoef/That was?
Dilkes/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/So we still could---
Dilkes/Yeah, we gave you a memo on that. Yeah, we won that case in the Supreme Court.
Vanderhoef/But they still can have their---
Pfab/Well, you've got, it was a hardship, wasn't it?
Dilkes/That was resolved in, the hardship issue was resolved between the owner of the Yacht
Club and our housing inspection department.
Lehman/By our own ordinance.
Dilkes/But the jurisdictional issue continued to the Supreme Court.
Vanderhoeff OK.
Dilkes/And we thought it important that the jurisdictional issue be addressed, and it was
addressed in our favor.
Lehman/OK.
Wilburn/Are we going to get a staff recommendation or a memo about the Senior Center
Commission?
Lehman/Bylaws changing?
Wilburn/Yeah. About the--the recommendation about appointment? Are we going to hear any
more about that or---
Atkins/I had not planned to do any work on it. I was waiting for the Commission to do what
they wanted to do and recommend to you what they thought---
Dilkes/It's going to, it has to go to the Rules Committee first.
Atkins/Yeah.
Karr/Are you talking about the bylaws that in the rules?
Pfab/The change in the bylaws.
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Wilburn/The change in the bylaws.
Karr/Yeah, it'll go to the Rules Committee and then back to you for a vote.
Atkins/You ultimately have to adopt the bylaws of a Board or Commission.
Dilkes/And the resolution that changes the structure in light of the Johnson County not being---
Wilburn/OK. All right.
(Can't hear)
Pfab/Steve, you mentioned that you were going to wait to see what they were going to do and
then basically--a sweeping thing is that you recommend.
Atkins/Irvin, I wasn't--I'll be candid with you--I wasn't planning on doing anything. I'm
assuming the Commission will recommend directly to you all. You'll send it to your
Rules Committee and bring it back to this group. Now, if you'd like me to do some
research on it or something such as that, that's another thing.
Pfab/No.
Lehman/It's also political issues that I don't feel it's fair to ask Stephen about---
Pfab/No.
Atkins/I don't think Irvin's asking that. I just--my, it just seemed to be that was the logical way
to do it. It's--they're your board, your appointees.
Pfab/Right. But as, since they're on the board, do they have, can they do whatever they want?
Atkins/No, you decide that.
Champion/No.
Lehman/We decide what the bylaws are.
Atkins/Yeah.
Pfab/So, the fact that--it's not like the Library Board.
Lehman/No.
Atkins/No, it is different from the Library Board, that's true. They're quasi-autonomous party
by state law.
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Pfab/While we appoint them, the employees are City employees, I mean under your supervision.
Atkins/Yes. Right. That's correct.
Lehman/Right.
Atkins/So, not unlike, Irvin, the Parks and Recreation Commission.
Pfab/Right.
Atkins/You could run a Senior Center without need for a Board or Commission, if you chose to
do so.
Lehman/OK.
ITEM 2 e. (1) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION OF INTENT TO CONVEY THE
PROPERTY KNOWN AS 1926 BROADWAY STREET, IOWA CITY, IOWA, TO
HAWKEYE AREA COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAM (}IACAP) AND
SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING ON SAID CONVEYANCE FOR SEPTEMBER
9, 2003.
Kanner/I had a question about 2 e (1), resolution of intent to convey the property to HACAP. I
think basically it's a good thing, but I was wondering if by tomorrow you can tell me
what is the difference in terms of how much money will be, how much less money we'll
be making. We're redoing the terms for conveying a house to HACAP, which we
already, they've purchased already and they're making payments on it. And they're going
from a 7 percent annual rate to 5.5.
Atkins/Right.
Kanner/And with different lengths of time for the term. So, we're refinancing for them.
Atkins/That's what we're doing.
Kanner/And I was wondering then if you can tell me then what would be the difference in our
income?
Atkins/OK.
Kanner/From what we were getting to what we will get in total.
Atkins/OK. I can do that for you.
Kanner/And then, will our housing director, I'm sorry, I forgot his name, Steve?
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Atkins/Steve Rackis.
Kanner/Rackis. Will he be here tomorrow to explain, well, we're just setting a public hearing.
Atkins/Yeah. We can have him here. I intended to have at the next meeting.
Kanner/That'll be fine. But will we get information on some of the changes that have taken
place?
Atkins/I can have them summarized for you, if you'd like.
Kanner/Yeah.
Pfab/I would appreciate that.
Atkins/OK.
2. f. (15) RESOLUTIONS. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR
TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST TItE RELEASE OF A
PORTION OF A SANITARY SEWER EASEMENT TRAVERSING 728 PARK
ROAD, IOWA CITY, IOWA.
Kanner/Then 2. f. (15). We're releasing part of the easement of the property on Park Road for
sanitary sewer, and in the past we had 36 feet and it's determined that 15 feet is enough.
Why did we have such wide easements in the past and why do we feel we only need 157
Atkins/I don't know.
Vanderhoeff Was that maybe at---
Atkins/It could be an old street right-of-way.
Vanderhoef/I was going to say a street---
Atkins/A street right-of-way or an alley right-of-way or something such as that. That's why 36
feet looks like---
Vanderhoef/We had another one of those in that area---
Champion/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/...that we---
Lehman/ Park Road, yeah, that's right.
Atkins/That's easy enough to find out the history of that. I'll ask Rick that.
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Pfab/Is this a street that we abandoned?
Atkins/That's my point. Irvin, it could have been abandoned and we just preserved the right-of-
way.
Vanderhoef/Or maybe never built.
Atkins/Yeah, it could have been a paper street. I'll ask Rick that for you.
Kanner/Thank you.
2 f. (13) CONSIDER A RESOLIJTION DECLARING THE CITY'S INTENT TO
PROCEED WITH AND AUTHORIZING TItE ACQUISITION OF PROPERTY
RIGHTS FOR THE BURLINGTON STREET BRIDGE RECONSTRUCTION
PROJECT OVER RALSTON CREEK.
Kanner/And then 2 f. (13), we're declaring the City's intent to proceed with the acquisition of
property rights for the Burlington Street reconstruction project. Do you know what
possible private property is---
Lehman/ It's not property rights, it's easement.
Atkins/It's an easement, Steve; I don't believe we have any property to purchase.
Vanderhoef/Well, there's one that's a prior, one permanent, and that was what I started to ask
earlier and didn't.
Pfab/You asked is it property---
Dilkes/It's still an easement.
Atkins/An easement.
Dilkes/There's no fee title acquisition; it's just, and they're very minimal. I haven't seen the
plats for them so I can't really tell you. IDOT, I think, is going to be doing the actual
acquisition.
Champion/OK.
Pfab/There was a public heating here several days ago, and it was kind of interesting, and I
don't know how much knowledge it is to everyone else. Are we going to put an
additional lane in that bridge? But it's already there. Sidewalks are sitting on it. So we're
going to take the sidewalks out, move them out, and there was the bridge. We aren't
going to really rebuild, make the bridge any bigger, move the sidewalks, take the
sidewalks off and put them off the bridge.
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Lehman/Except we have to replace the bridge because the bridge itself is not---
Pfab/(can't hear) but that's what--you can't do any pond driving because you'll, the (can't hear-- ---students?) will run up and down---
Lehman/Yes, they're all over the place.
Kanner/Well, and if they're just going to add sidewalks on the outside of the bridge.
Pfab/Wait, they're sitting on top of the 4-foot sidewalks now. They're going to move them out
and put 8-foot sidewalks out there and I think they're going to use a little temporary one,
this little bridge like they have in the park to walk people across but while it's going on.
And it's really simple when you look at it. There's a space in there where there is no fifth
lane when you go over the bridge, and it's, the bridge is already built. They just have to
redeck it. Take the sidewalk off the bridge.
Kanner/So these, something with these, what property is the easement for?
Atkins/I'll find that out for you.
Kanner/Thank you.
Atkins/I believe they're strictly easements simply to allow us to do the actual construction in the
area.
Dilkes/Yeah, the construction, I think there may be a permanent utility easement.
Atkins/And they're may be permanent, yeah.
Vanderhoef/And it maybe---
Dilkes/They're minor.
Vanderhoef/It may well be part of the Rec Center, and that was the question that came up in my
mind is how you get in and out of the Rec Center if they use that for easement?
Atkins/I would hope that would have been thought of and---
Pfab/One of the points they made was there would be no disruption of any business while the
bridge was being constructed. I mean---
Atkins/That takes care of that.
Pfab/...access is not going to be denied to any business.
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Kanner/Well, they said there's a rerouting that's going---
Atkins/That's not uncommon, yeah, to move, when you're doing some construction.
Kanner/Could you let us know when that is so we can start letting people know that that's going
to be happening?
Champion/Probably happen on a football Saturday.
Vanderhoef/Next summer.
Lehman/It's next summer.
Atkins/It wouldn't be until next year anyway, but, OK.
Lehman/OK.
2. g. (2) CORRESPONDENCE. MICHAEL LENSING: ACQUISITION OF ALLEY.
Vanderhoef/Oh, the other was the request to vacate the alley on the south side of the Lensing
property.
Atkins/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/We have a letter with that request. I think we should talk about it or figure out what
we're going to do with that.
Dilkes/I don't think that's even--that's not on your agenda.
Atkins/There's a letter in the---
Dilkes/Right, there's a letter---
Vanderhoef/There's a letter in the packet from Michael Lensing requesting this and stating what
his purpose would be and an offer to purchase.
Dilkes/Right. And it's working its way through P and Z and the vacation will, we will put it on
your agenda once we have enough of that.
Vanderhoef/So it is moving on forward?
Dilkes/Yes.
Vanderhoef/OK.
ITEM 10. AMENDMENT OF TItE FY2004 OPERATING BUDGET.
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Kanner/And then issue number 10. Agenda item number 10, the budget amendment. That
includes what we've approved so far on---
Atkins/Everything we did, that's correct.
Karmer/...here for subtracting and adding different monies.
Atkins/Mm-hmm. Correct.
Kanner/OK. Thank you.
Lehman/OK.
Karr/Mr. Mayor.
Lehman/Yes.
Kart/A couple of Agenda items.
Lehman/Yes.
ITEM 5. A $300.00 CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST KUM & GO STORES//53, PURSUANT
TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2).
Karr/Number 5. We have a public, or excuse me, a heating and a resolution assessing penalty
for Kum & Go. That store did pay their fine so a hearing is not necessary. You have
before you then just a resolution just accepting the payment.
Champion/OK. And that was all those papers we got---
Lehman/All we need is a resolution---
Karr/Accepting the payment.
Lehman/Accepting.
Karr/You do not need the heating.
ITEM 17. ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES. PREVIOUSLY ANNOUNCED. (1)
HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION (2) PUBLIC ART ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
Karr/And also we added then the, to item number 17-~17 a. reads "Previously announced"; it
should say "Currant vacancies." You're just announcing these. And we've added a third
one to that group and that's the Airport Commission. You have the resignation this
evening from (Can't hear)
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Lehman/OK.
Karr/OK.
Lehman/Airport Commission is one vacancy?
Karr/Correct.
Lehman/All right. Got it.
COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS: AIRPORT ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT (1)[
AIRPORT ZONING COMMISSION (1}~ HISTORIC PRESERVATION
COMMISSION (1)~ HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
COMMISSION (3}[ LIBRARY BOARD OF TRUSTEES (1)~ POLICE CITIZENS
REVIEW BOARD (1}
Lehman/Appointments. Airport Zoning Board of Adjustment, no applications. The Airport
Zoning Commission, we had one application from Brian Sponcil, is that the name?
Champion/Mm-hmm. I think he's fine.
Lehman/Do we have a---
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/We concur?
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Kanner/Yes.
Lehman/All right. That one is OK. The Library Board. We had two applications.
Wilburn/Linzee McCray.
Lehman/Yeah, Linzee McCray and Anne Schulte. We have your, we have Linzee McCray
recommended. Is that acceptable?
O'Donnell/It's fine.
Pfab/Fine.
Champion/I'm deciding between the two of them.
Lehman/All right. Linzee is OK. PCRB.
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August 18, 2003 Council Work Session Page 48
Dilkes/PCRB.
Vanderhoef/I would like to go back to Greg Roth, the police officer.
Champion/That's exactly what I was going to bring up.
Vanderhoef/I think his credentials are very, very good. He's been out of our police department
for about 14 years.
Dilkes/Mm-hmm.
O'Donnell/Good.
Vanderhoef/And I---
Champion/ I second that one.
Vanderhoef/Good.
Lehman/Are there four people? All right.
Karr/So, I'm sorry, you--what was that?
Vanderhoef/Greg Roth.
Karr/Thank you.
Lehman/OK. P1N grant allocations.
Dilkes/Wait a minute. We haven't done HCDC yet.
Lehman/Oh, I'm sorry.
Dilkes/Do you have all the other ones?
Wilburn/I can't---
Lehman/You can't even talk about it.
(WlLBURN LEAVES TABLE FOR CONFLICT OF iNTEREST)
Dilkes/I've got a--there's a conflict issue on the, in the Blessings application.
Lehman/We don't have that, do we?
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Champion/I don't have those applications.
Karr/Those were deferred from your last meeting so they're in your July 15th packet.
Dilkes/Amy Blessing, you remember, is a Goodwill employee, and she stated on her application
that Goodwill had been an applicant previously but she didn't think they were going to be
an applicant for CDBG funds in the future. So I took a look at that issue and I talked to
her at some length today. I think she's going to withdraw her application. I told her if it
wasn't, if her withdrawal wasn't in by tonight I was going to share with you what our
discussion had been. We have, the City Attorney's office has an opinion out on HCDC
appointments, which I think you know, basically says that if someone is affiliated with an
applicant for funding, they really shouldn't be on HCDC because unlike a Council
member who can abstain on those issues, HCDC--that's what they do. It's hard to put
someone on that Commission when they have to abstain from anything involving CDBG
or Home funding. I think because Goodwill was previously an applicant and although
there are continuing obligations under that agreement with us, because she was not in a
position to influence the decisions at the time that grant was made, we would have been
OK but for the fact that the HUD rules, which are incredibly strict which basically require
Ross to disassociate himself with those decisions, if Goodwill chose to be an applicant in
the future and she was on the Board, she couldn't just resign to take care of that problem,
because the HUD rules provide that during your tenure and for one year after, there's still
a conflict, and so I, you know, suggested that she might want to talk to her supervisors. I
think you could appoint her, but I just wanted to note that that's an issue.
Champion/And she was the one that we really liked and thought would do a good job.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
Dilkes/I don't know--I can't remember what your discussion about her was.
Lehman/A potential problem.
Champion/Yeah.
Dilkes/But I think it is a potential problem. I just think those HUD rules just more and more,
unfortunately, because often these are people who know about these things, who are
affiliated with these agencies. But it just makes it very difficult for people with those
affiliations to serve on HCDC.
Pfab/Which packet did you cite?
Karr/July 15th. Under Appointments.
Kanner/Agenda.
Karr/Agenda and then Appointments.
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Vanderhoef/Agenda isn't left on the---
Kart/No, but if you go into your file and under that meeting date, look under Appointments,
you'll find the whole packet.
Dilkes/So, we don't formally have her withdrawal yet. I don't know if we'll get one or if she---
Lehman/Who were the applicants besides Amy and Rick?
Karr/Rick Spooner, Amy Blessing, and William Thomas Greazel. You had three applications,
three vacancies.
Vanderhoef/And I looked at the attendance record for Mr. Spooner, and I'm not inclined to
move him from his present appointment. When he was previously on Housing and
Community Development, he did not appear at all for about five meetings in a row
without excuses. His attendance is a bit better on the present one and I will leave him
there would be my thought. And on top of that we've got two more vacancies for Human
Rights, so to make that shift at this point would leave Human Rights Commission.
Lehman/Well, what do we wish to do with this Housing and Community Development. If we
are not interested in moving Rick and if Amy Blessing has a potential conflict, we have
one person left, William Greazel. Do we just want to wait and readvertise?
Kanner/I think that would be good.
O'Donnell/That's probably a good idea.
Kart/Readvertise all three?
Lehman/Right. For all three. That doesn't mean---
Kanner/But what's the third person?
Lehman/William Greazel. And I'm not at all sure that we would not appoint him.
Kanner/I think we should appoint him. I recall that he was a good applicant. I don't remember
the details.
Champion/I can't remember either. Has anybody got on (can't hear)
Karr/Mr. Greazel is County Assessor, 25 years for Johnson County.
Lehman/You're nominating him?
Kanner/Yeah.
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Lehman/All right. I have no--we will appoint William Greazel and we will readvertise for the
other two positions. OK.
Karr/I'm sorry, for the Library Board, you--it was Miss McCray?
Lehman/Yes.
Kanner/Yes.
Atkins/We'd better get Ross in here.
Lehman/Why don't we get Ross, yes.
Champion/I'll get him.
(WlLBURN RETURNS)
PIN GRANT ALLOCATIONS
Lehman/OK. P1N grant allocations, Marsha.
O'Donnell/Did we pick Gregory Roth for Police Citizens Review?
Lehman/Yes.
Vanderhoef/My battery just died.
Lehman/OK.
Klingaman/Tomorrow evening you're going to be reviewing a recommendation by the
Neighborhood Council for an allocation or disbursing of Fiscal Year 2004 PIN grant
funds, and tonight I, as usual, would like to kind of run through the grants with you to
familiarize yourself, and then to get some, if you have any basic questions or things
you'd like the neighborhoods to spend some time on tomorrow evening, they would be
prepared to do so. So, I'm just going to--you look a bit puzzled, Ernie.
Lehman/Well, yeah, there's one that concerns me to the same level that the leaf pickup
concerned me a year ago. And that is hauling couches away from a neighborhood. We
provide a service through the City by making a phone call to the City, placing it on the
curb and paying a fee.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Lehman/I believe that's a potential for other neighborhoods to have some real problems. And I
just really--I know what happens with the leaf pickup, which I thought at the time was
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not a good idea.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Lehman/It's giving preferential treatment to a neighborhood for a service that is currently
available to them anyway. Although I wholly support removing couches from porches,
I'm not sure that this is the way to do it.
(Laughter)
Vanderhoef/Well, the thing that we have run into on the leaf thing was other folks thought they
were going to get the same---
Atkins/Confusion.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm. It was total confusion and it did come up to the extent of preferential
treatment.
Champion/Except any neighborhood can apply for those PIN grants.
O'Donnell/I know but it's---
Lehman/Anyway, I have---
Atkins/But it's the neighborhood association though, Connie.
Champion/Oh, they'd better get one together.
Atkins/OK.
O'Donnell/I think you're right, Come. Anybody that's in an active neighborhood association
could have applied and they didn't.
Vanderhoef/This is why---
Lehman/We also (can't hear) five gage cans picked up instead of two.
Vanderhoef/This is why a year ago I said we needed to have this discussion on PIN grants and
sustainability o f projects.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/And I didn't realize these were coming this---
Klingaman/At the same time.
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Vanderhoef/...because I have asked a couple of times to put this on for a work session.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/And isn't this early for this to happen?
Klingaman/No, very late. We're about two and a half months late. Usually it's the end of May.
Because of the budget discussions and all of that, then we just waited until we knew
exactly what was going to be happening, and then the recornmendations---
Vanderhoef/I guess when I was thinking May, I was thinking it was for that following summer.
Klingaman/Yeah, you know, usually it's the end of May for July 1 st, you know, expenditures.
Champion/(can't hear) constantly allowed for one-time expenditures. It doesn't have to be a
sustaining thing. Part of the criteria is one-time expenditures.
Vanderhoef/But sustainable in the community.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm. Now we have that item tonight too. And I think that's the purpose of the
Council reviewing this application is to bring up those issues. You've not agreed to the
recommendation before. You can not agree to it this time.
Kanner/Well, I had a question in regards to this project and the sidewalk project. The sidewalk
project says it specifically targets lower income people. So my question is 1, how do they
determine who's low income, and 2, if we're going to do something like the Couch Day,
I would want to target it to low income people, too, and not just make it available to
anyone, since it's benefiting individual people. And so could the same thing be done with
that, with the Couch Day?
Klingaman/I'm sure it could. The rationale with the Couch Day was that in most cases the
couches are not being disposed of, well, probably for a variety of reasons, but the biggest
one is just working through the process, contacting the City and making the arrangements
to have it hauled away. To have the neighborhood there to assist and to walk, I don't
know, I would suggest probably most of the couches sit on porches on homes that are
occupied by younger people. Just to have the neighborhood work with them and see if
they can get them to give up the couch.
Vanderhoef/Are they rentals?
Lehman/Sure they are.
Klingaman/More of them are not.
Vanderhoef/OK. So, we have the amnesty time at the end o£the school year where we give that
extra week. This is through the Refuse Planning, that they have a week so that the
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August 18, 2003 Council Work Session Page 54
homeowner or the apartment owner can get it done on their own and/or for them to call
and have it hauled away.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/So, they have that opportunity. It isn't like---
Klingaman/The amnesty only applies though to a time period, not to a cost.
Vanderhoef/For a week.
Lehman/No, they'll charge you.
Vanderhoef/They'll still charge.
Klingaman/Right. And so they're charging, I've forgotten, $10 to $20 to remove those, and I
think it's just at the discretion of the landlord or the occupants as whether or not they
include that in the pile of stuff they set on the curb.
Vanderhoef/Well, this is one of the things that needs to be addressed through Refuse, because
we've talked about having a total amnesty day and at this point, it's not being
recommended by Refuse to do that, and the cost that would happen. So to take money out
of the General Fund for something that should be funded out of the Refuse---
TAPE 03-63, SIDE TWO
Vanderhoef/...sorry. This just doesn't come up to standards for us. There's lots of other things
we could do; in fact, I like your idea of the PiN grant for the collective neighborhoods,
for the equipment.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/And putting in another $1,400 into that equipment and making sure that we have
what we need for that would be much higher on my priority. Or it could be sent back for
reallocation.
Klingaman/Mm-hrnm. The Dead Couch Day grant at this point has been reduced to $1,000.
Lehman/One thousand.
Pfab/The what?
Klingaman/The Dead Couch Day.
Pfab/Oh, OK.
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Vanderhoef/But that's still General Fund money; that's not Refuse.
Pfab/I think Dee's onto something. I would--that would make me feel a lot better. Dead Couch
is just--but putting it into the---
Vanderhoef/Now, we're going to get calls like we got last year on leaves. Everybody's going to
say well, if the City's going to pay to pick it up out of my tax dollars, and I've been a
good citizen and I have paid for my own dead couch to be taken out or whatever else,
next time it'll be refrigerators or something else. We're just opening up a can of worms
with this money, I'm sorry.
Klingaman/Well, that's just something that Council needs to decide. I think all of the PIN grants
provide opportunities to neighborhoods that other areas of towns don't receive. It's the
level of opportunity you have to decide upon.
Pfab/But the sidewalks, you know, it's already, it's at the maximum--right, $5,000?
Klingaman/Yes.
Vanderhoef/Well, the sidewalk is---
Klingamarff Yeah, it's a maximum of $5,000 for each grant.
Vanderhoeff But what happens with the sidewalk is that there's a section of town each year that
is designated and that's how Public Works is going through this. So we've been able to
do that for an area.
Pfab/But my point was take the $1,000 and put it in that for that same area, but that's already at
maximum.
Klingaman/Yeah.
Kanner/Wasn't the maximum $5,000 grant?
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
Klingaman/Mm-hmrn. That was one thing that was established by a different Council.
Lehman/But we don't have to decide where to put it.
Champion/I think if we're going to---
Vanderhoef/It could be sent back to the Commission to put on another project because we---
Klingaman/Mm-hmm. This has been done before.
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Vanderhoef/...didn't look at which one---
Klingaman/Three years ago.
Vanderhoef/...was you didn't fund.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/You know, you said a few of them withdrew.
Klingaman/And any of them withdrew withdrew only because there wasn't enough funding or
they reduced their request voluntarily.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
KlingamanJ So that's certainly--I guess I would prefer your considering not approving that Dead
Couch, that it go back to the Neighborhood Council to reassess the total amount and have
them come back with another recommendation.
Pfab/OK.
Vanderhoeff That's fine with us.
Pfab/(Can't hear) good for me.
Champion/Well, it's (can't hear). I think these criteria that we change at the last minute should
be talked about long before their money is allocated. And I think if we don't have the
criteria--the criteria does not specify it can't be used for leaf pickup or for couch pickup,
or whatever you want to call it, then you'd let the Neighborhood Councils decide on all
the criteria. We also then decide disbursements of funds; well, I think we ought to go
with it and if you want to talk about well, we don't want any Citywide services included
in PIN grants, City services that are provided by the City exclusive for a neighborhood.
But I think I can see why the north side wants a Dead Couch Day. And it's going to get
the couches off the porches and the volunteers are going to carry them to the curb, and I
can see where that's not going to happen if they have to put them on the curb and pay to
have them picked up.
Pfab/So, you're saying let's take another look at it and maybe---
O'Donnell/Resurrect the couch.
Pfab/OK. I have no trouble with it.
O'Donnell/But you're not deciding this tonight anyway.
Pfab/Well, but I mean, if, well, if we're going to decide not to do it, I would have no---
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O'Donnell/(can't hear) advertise---
Pfab/I think Connie makes a good point. We shouldn't, after we, they put their neck in the
noose, then we shouldn't get yanking on them. But they made their---
Vanderhoef/But it was the same thing last year, so now it's being resurrected again on a similar
type (can't hear)
O'Donnell/That created a good neighbor.
Vanderhoef/The neighbors south of Burlington are all going to want that. All of these landlords
that have been responsible and have picked them up and taken them out and paid for
them, they're going to leave them, and they're going to say, Get us a PIN grant for next
year to clean this up.
Lehman/Well, let me suggest that tomorrow night if them are four of us who choose not to
support the Dead Couch, it could be introduced by amendment to take that off of item 13
and remand it back to the Neighborhood Committee. Now, I think we're familiar with the
other project. I think we've read them. One ofthem---
Klingaman/OK. Anything else some clarification on?
Lehman/No, I mean---
Pfab/Wait just one second. Can the neighborhood couches just go to the low income people?
Kanner/Go to anyone.
Lehman/Anyone.
Champion/I doubt---
Lehman/We're talking basically rental units and probably---
Champion/Right.
Lehman/...it wouldn't (can't hear)
Champion/I mean, I wouldn't qualify for low income and I probably wouldn't have a couch that
needed to be gotten rid of. I would have gotten rid of it.
Lehman/Right, you'd be using it. I would suggest our time might be better spent on PIN grant
criteria.
O'Donnell/Let's do that.
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Klingaman/OK. So in terms of the PiN grants, you don't?
Kanner/I had.
Klingaman/You did, about the low income?
Kanner/Yeah, well, the low income, it says applicants will be required to verify that they meet
income requirements. Does that mean that they have to submit a form to the City?
Klingaman/They would submit a form to the Neighborhood Association, and basically, what
Longfellow did, what Grant Wood did, this was kind of a carryover of existing projects
that they've had was just list the income limits for each family size and the person had to
sign off to say, yes, I have a family of such and such, my income is below this amount.
Kanner/OK.
Klingaman/There's no further verification. It's fairly simple. It's not intimidating.
Kanner/That's good.
Pfab/As long as the couches don't (can't hear), that doesn't work for the couches though.
Klingaman/No, we're not suggesting that. It's going to be pretty unlikely. In rooming house
situations or single families that have pomhes are going to have at least three or four
college students, and it's actually the property owner that should have their income
verified and not the occupants. And it's going to be very unlikely they're low income.
Lehman/My suspicion is if you did it with the property owners, none of them would qualify.
Klingaman/I'm sure they wouldn't.
(Laughter)
Lehman/OK.
Dilkes/I'm a little confused about what's going to happen tomorrow night. You talked about
approving everything except the thousand by amendment. I think Marcia was talking
about deferring this and sending this back to the Neighborhood Council with the
additional, with your direction on the couch so they could kind of reallocate---
Lehman/Well---
Dilkes/Those are two different things.
Lehman/No, no, I don't think they are. I think the amendment could be removing the $1,000
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Dead Couch provision and remanding it back to the Neighborhood Association.
Pfab/I think---
Lehman/Reallocation. We approve the others and that one we send back.
Klingaman/I think that's what we did before and the Neighborhood Council just sent a memo
saying they've reevaluated and put this money into such a grant.
Lehman/I think the amendment---
Klingaman/Into an existing grant that wasn't fully funded.
Dilkes/You're just talking about whether you're just sending $1,000 back or you're sending the
whole thing back?
Lehman/Right.
Dilkes/You're sending the $1,000. OK, that's fine.
Klingaman/I guess I would prefer since we're so late in the process now would be to see some
of them---
Lehman/Approve the rest, yeah, I would.
Klingaman/...getting going.
Kanner/I had a question regarding the Take Back the Night proposal.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Kanner/I was wondering and this should probably be and Steve, with the police purview, if we
could see, did--when we had, they got this grant money in the past for additional police
officers in this area, did we see a reduction in complaints? So, is this doing any good?
Atkins/Reduction in complaints might be difficult to say; in fact, you might see an increase in
complaints because of the visibility. Maybe just the opposite occurs.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
Atkins/I can do an assessment.
Karmer/My point is to see what is there that we can measure that might show, or and also,
maybe Jerry can address this tomorrow. But I'd like to see if it has an effect.
Atkins/I'll ask R.J. tomorrow if there's anything.
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Champion/People tend to behave better when there's a policeman around. I do.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
(Laughter)
Karmer/That's what they said in New York City, that they put more police officers out when the
lights went out this time.
Wilburn/There's also an intangible effect, too, just a presence that folks feel safe.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm. Safer.
Kanner/But maybe funding more time for a neighborhood coordinator going door-to-door to
help organize people makes people feel secure also. That's another form of using money
to help people feel secure.
Wilbum/I was just throwing out--you asked for specific measurement and I was just suggesting
there might be some other things that may not be measurable.
Kanner/I know. And I'm just---
Wilburn/I'm not looking to debate it tonight.
Kanner/Ross, I'm just continuing on what you're saying.
Wilburn/I'll bring it up tomorrow. That's fine.
Kanner/You came up with a good thing. I'm saying that there might be additional ways to spend
the money.
Wilbum/And that's fine. Thanks.
Atkins/OK.
PIN GRANT CRITERIA
Klingaman/Do we want to move onto the sustainability issue?
Lehman/I'm ready.
Klingaman/And, Dee, I would like some further comments from you about where you were
coming from. The sustainability comment was made at the Council meeting back in July.
And what your thoughts were.
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Vanderhoef/My thoughts on sustainability have to do with can we continue to do this and can
we do it for everybody?
Klingaman/All Neighborhood Associations or the public? (can't hear) public?
Vanderhoef/And I think Ernie stated it probably better, in that if it's a service that the City
already provides, maybe that's where we ought to be going because this conflict of other
folks expecting the same treatment and not getting it. Certainly, the Take Back the
Neighborhood is a potential---
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/...and that one has not come back.
Klingaman/It's not as obvious. We don't get phone calls about it.
Vanderhoef/No, no. And this is true and this is a neighborhood that I think is being recognized
as perhaps needing a little more security than other neighborhoods, and I think we would
get the request if other neighborhoods felt that they had a similar need.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/So, how we define it is---
Klingaman/These are all just extensions on existing services.
Vanderhoef/...why you're asking for it, I'm trying to think of another potential that might come
out of this. One that struck me as a problem that we also funded was the lead-based paint.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/And I think that this is a pretty standard one in our older sections of town. No one
else has applied for that one, but that one could have been done through the County
Public Health.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm. It was focused on those two neighborhoods, and that was the motivator to
get people to actually have their children tested.
VanderhoefJ Mm-hmm.
Lehman/But by the same token, there is---
Vanderhoef/But there was no way to follow up; there wasn't a product left after it was done.
OK, so you tested them and we had a few kids that were safer because they have been
tested or brought to their attention. But that was a public health issue that there is still
another kind of service provided by a government body. So that one is one that I
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wouldn't support.
Lehman/But the same thing is true of replacing sidewalks for low-income people. There is the
ability to do that with present programs and I'm not sure that that isn't a good idea.
Vanderhoef/Well, that one in my mind has a possibility of sustainability because we're only
doing a small section at a time because that's the way we're working around the City and
Public Works is marking the sections of sidewalk that have to be changed. And they're
only checking a certain section of town each year. So---
Klingaman/I think the reoccurring theme with all of these though is that the neighborhood who
is applying for these funds is willing to take some very active part in ensuring that this
occurs, for one thing, and to do the promotion with the blood testing. The biggest issue
was that the opportunity is there, that parents can have their children tested. It just wasn't
happening. So there was a whole component of getting out information about lead blood
lead poisoning to the various schools in the neighborhoods and then holding these testing
sites at the schools, so it was convenient for the parents to have their children there. So
none of that would have necessarily happened without--no, I suppose the neighborhood
could have worked with the Department of Public Health---
Vanderhoef/That's exactly where it should be.
Klingaman/...and then gotten involved with that.
Vanderhoef/Because the public health, what I'm concerned about on what they did do, OK, so
we got tested, you were notified, but then we didn't have the public health piece that
followed up with these families to have it continue to its ultimate.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Vanderhoef/So, to do one little section of town, I could have told you, I use lead-based paint in
Longfellow area because that was the paint that was available when I did it.
Klingaman/Mm-hmrn.
Vanderhoef/So, it's not news to anybody that there's lead there. It's a public health issue and it's
not one that the City has anything to do with.
Klingaman/No, but you--I'm thinking about grants that have physical improvements based on
them, I mean you can reach out and touch.
Vanderhoef/Yeah.
Klingaman/Dead trees, trees being planted, playground equipment being replaced or installed.
Vanderhoef/Mm-hmm.
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Klingaman/I'm trying to think.
Vanderhoef/New services.
Klingaman/What signs are you going to put in, so that the simpler ones; to be quite honest, all of
those things could probably happen without PIN funds if there was an aggressive enough
group that wanted to go out and either seek funding or nag City staff or whatever the
process is. What they're doing through the entire process with the P1N grants and what I
see the most productive, is they start thinking about what they need and know the P1N
grants are the easy way out. That they're the initial, you know, we really needed a tire
swing in some parks so they go ahead and apply for the fimds to do that. They could
request Parks and Rec to do that, but it could be three, four, five years down the road.
Lehman/It also brings the neighborhoods together.
Champion/Exactly.
Lehman/Which I think---
Klingaman/It allows them---
Vanderhoef/That part is good, but the---
Klingaman/So, it's, no, I've gone back and forth in both, in different directions on how effective
they are, but that is probably the biggest benefit is having them all sit down, talk about it,
and the amount of volunteer work that's involved in getting something like that
coordinated, it's not going to happen. I very infrequently---
Champion/It's really a valid thing. They do get together on kind of what they think the
neighborhood needs, not what we think they need. And I think some of us who aren't
living in neighborhoods where we deal with some of the problems that some of these
very active neighborhood groups are dealing with all the time, it's important to them that
these things get done, and it is an easy way to get them done. And they all come together
and decide that that's what's important in the neighborhood. I don't care, I would
approve any project they wanted that the Council itself decided was important to that
neighborhood. I don't want to start putting a lot of criteria on it about sustainability and
all that. What's sustainable about a movie being played at night? It's played and it's
done. I mean, it has a lot of different---
Klingaman/It brings people together.
Champion/...other positive things. And I think we should keep our noses out of this as much as
possible. That's all I have to say.
(Laughter)
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Lehman/Why don't you say what you really think, Connie? This isn't as easy---
Klingaman/No, it's not.
Lehman/No.
Klingaman/It really isn't.
Lehman/No, it's not. I do have, I did have a problem with the leaf pickup, because I do think
we're giving preferential treatment to one neighborhood---
Klingaman/As you are with every other PIN grant you would agree to.
Lehman/...for a problem that exists all over the City. But I think there are certain things. For
example, a swing in a--there's only one park like this park that needs a swing.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Lehman/It's not like putting a swing in every park. But this is a park that has a specific need.
You might have a street that lost a lot of big trees and there may be a need for street trees
on that street because of the loss. I mean, there could be unique situations that I think
would easily apply. But I really do have a problem with us giving one neighborhood
services at the expense of the General Fund that are not available to other neighborhoods.
Champion/They are.
Klingaman/Oh, but they are, Ernie.
Lehman/I don't think picking up dead couches is one of them.
Pfab/I thought we buried---
Lehman/ We did not dispose of the couches; we're letting them die on the porch.
(Laughter)
Lehman/So I think the same thing is tree of the leaves. Those are issues that we open ourselves
up for a lot of criticism.
Klingaman/And I personally got a number of phone calls last spring when that was all going on,
wondering why it was that just one neighborhood was receiving it, and I would go
through the entire process. First I'd find out kind of sort of where these people lived and
if they lived in a Neighborhood Association, I said, look there's a possibility you can go
ahead and apply for that, too, if you get support to do that. And these are the people you
have to work with. And everybody sounded enthusiastic, but nobody followed through.
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So, then I go back to, well, at least, Longfellow, spent the time to get it organized; they
(can't hear) the whole process and worked with the contractor to get the assistance set up.
No, there were a number of people who weren't happy about that one. And I think the
couches are much in the same vein.
Champion/There were also a lot of people who were happy about it.
Klingaman/Yes, there were. Yes, there were. Everybody seemed to understand what I told them
about, you know, why it was specialized for that one area. That wasn't--they didn't get
contentious with me at least. I explained they had the opportunity if they want to do it.
Kanner/I guess my criteria would be that 1, it goes for the general community's benefit in a
public way, or 2, if it accrues to an individual benefit, to a monetary benefit or in-kind,
that there be a low income requirement.
Klingaman/Mm-hmm.
Kanner/That that's--so I would go along with what you're saying, allowing them to do it if they
wanted to do that, but I would set it at benefiting low or moderate income people, similar
to the sidewalk thing. It doesn't sound like it would be too hard to do, even for the couch
thing.
O'Donnell/But to be fair, that was not the criteria for the leaf pickup. I mean, you can't keep
adding things as we go.
Lehman/Yeah, but that's why we're talking about it now.
O'Donnell/Well, I know but I'm, I mean, you're consistent. Connie explained to us (can't hear)
you put this out, they bring back their suggestions and we can either say yes or no on
them.
Lehman/I don't disagree with that but I also think that they need to have some expectation that
we would consider their request favorably, and my guess is, it may be wrong, but if
someone had applied for leaf pickup this year, we probably would not have approved it.
Champion/I would have hesitated.
O'Donnell/I'm agreeing---
Lehman/That's what I said, I don't know for sure because I didn't know where you're coming
from.
Pfab/Wasn't it, in fact, I thought they said the leaf was for low income people?
Lehman/No, they went along, you think they asked?
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Klingaman/The neighborhood asked for $4,000 worth of free leaf bags and distributed them and
we don't know income that would be. But no that was (can't hear)
Lehman/I don't know how much direction we can honestly give you.
O'Donnell/I will agree with you on the couches. I do not think that's right.
Pfab/We're going to make a neighborhood nuisance. Do they help?
Lehman/Couches are not included in the Neighborhood Nuisance.
Pfab/Oh, they got out of it.
Lehman/Yeah. Anyway. Are there any comments--I don't know a single thing to give you any
idea of what we're going to be listening to favorably except I do sense that there are some
on the Council who feel that ifa service is available to the entire community---
Klingaman/If it's an existing City service and they want to specialize it for the neighborhood,
that it be targeted toward low income. Is that---
Lehman/ I think that would be a pretty, yeah, I think that's probably--if it's an existing service,
unless it's targeted to low income, it probably would not be approved.
Champion/It doesn't, yeah, but it doesn't make any difference how high your income is, you
cannot, get the City to come pick up your leaves in March.
Lehman/Unless you go to the Council and they say it's OK, which is why everybody
complained about it.
Klingaman/But you could put them in the bags, the yard waste bags.
Lehman/Right.
Kanner/Yeah, you could.
Klingaman/That's a whole other process.
Champion/But that wasn't yard waste bags. That leaf pickup wasn't.
Klingaman/No, it was just raking it into the street. That was the amenity.
Pfab/Could we redefine our point of discussion?
Lehman/I think that we are not going to be able to, as far as giving guidelines for PIN grants.
It's going to be the Council, unless we're--what is it--capricious and arbitrary?
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(Laughter)
Kanner/Well, you had proposed something and I'd like to see it, if you'd put it into a statement,
and then see if we'd agree with it for a final time; I think that would be good. What Ernie
just said before---
Lehman/No, Marcia said---
Klingaman/What exactly I said. I said if there were existing City services---
Lehman/Available throughout the City, that it would be available only to low income people
through a PIN grant.
Klingaman/If it's an extension of that service.
Lehman/I think that is a defensible position.
Kanner/Can you bring that back to us in a written statement and we'll give it a final stamp of
approval?
Klingaman/We would just go ahead and add it into the criteria that I gave you as part of your
packet.
Lehman/Does everybody concur with that?
Klingaman/If you want to review that---
Pfab/Just a, back up. Have we decided that we would fired the grants except for the Dead Couch
one?
Lehman/You'll find that out tomorrow night when somebody does or doesn't make an
amendment and it passes or fails.
Pfab/OK, so---
Lehman/ I have no idea.
Pfab/OK. So the point that, the definition is that for the couches then?
Lehman/No, that's for next year.
Pfab/OK, all right.
Lehman/We're not talking this year.
Pfab/OK, all right. No problem. Fine.
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Lehman/But I do think that's a pretty good guideline for the neighborhoods.
Klingaman/OK.
O'Donnell/Good.
Champion/I don't think so.
Klingaman/OK.
Lehman/All right.
O'Donnell/Are we finished?
Lehman/Thank you. Is there anybody have anything else for the good of the cause. We are out
of here. Thank you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Work Session of August 18, 2003.