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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-03-15 TranscriptionMarch 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 1 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Absent: Lehman. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Winklehake, Mitchell, Harney, Widmer. Tapes: 97-46, all; 97-47, all. Recommendations - Police Procedure and Policy 97-46 S1 Nov/We are going to start with the Police Polices and Procedures. We are going to go into the questions that we felt we hadn't answered yet and then we are going to save some time for PCRB ..... Vanderhoef/And what time are we aiming for? Baker/10:50. Nov/Larry has to leave at 9:50. At that point we will take a break .... come back at 10:15 or so and start on PCRB .... make a little bit of progress. Atkins/I am going to work from this ( Revised 2/19/97 Recommendations - Police Procedure and Policy). As a matter of process... start through the list .... if we get hung up on an item, let's just set it aside, move onto the next ....pick up the rest of them a little later on. Nov/ 1. Canine Unit. Kubby/We should set it aside. Baker/Just say no. Norton/Set it aside. Atkins/ Nov/Why set aside? Why no. I need a little bit of information. Kubby/ Norton/...too expensive .... 8:40 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 2 Nov/I would like to at least hear how expensive, how effective ....We need a little more information. Atkins/It depends on what you need to know. The animals can range in cost from zero to $10,000 ..... securing the animal is probably the single most difficult aspect of putting together a canine unit. Secondly .... animal is assigned to an officer and his family ..... Officer assumes complete responsibility for that animal ..... General life of one is in the neighborhood of 5-7 years... productive life ..... The downside... are that they can be a liability. Dogs will bite ..... risk... additional liability claims... Can be a very effective tool .....building searches and other types of law enforcement practices. Norton/Why don't we just set aside my suggestion .... documents... rough cost... transport... house them? Atkins/...probably have a $25,000 a year budget. Kubby/Documenting how many times in the past couple of years a canine unit would have been used. Is it really worth that cost? Winklehake/It is hard to tell you how many times we would have because we didn't have one and we didn't have one at our disposal ..... Atkins/The Johnson County Sheriff does have one and that is for drug intervention. Nov/And they would have not used it for building searches? Atkins/I don't think it has been trained that way. Winklehake/My understanding, we wanted to use the animal for a search and that was an outside search .... My understanding... we could not use that dog because it would have bitten the individual ....They had to have it on the lease. I understand that dog is primarily narcotic. Atkins/The dogs can be trained to bark and they can be trained to bite ..... Thornberry/...Denver has some dogs .... Atkins/I think that you need a station wagon .... I would not put him in the back of a patrol .... When this officer is on patrol, this animal is with him or her. You have to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 3 have a specialized vehicle to do it right because the animal needs to be comfortable .... Thornberry/ Kubby/Do we have an officer who is interested in being the canine unit? Atkins/Ed McMartin has a great deal of experience with dogs .... I don't think we have taken the time to survey the rest of the Department. Winklehake/We have had some interest expressed. Norton/I would just defer this. Atkins/R. J. has done some rough numbers ..... I really think it is a matter of is this the type of police service that you want to provide? ..... Woito/I see three no's. Nov/I can listen to the presentation ....I am still undecided .... Thornberry/Very few benefits. Vanderhoef/Ask for the next 6 months to just sort of keep a tally of what times you might have used it if it was available .....A brief we would have used it for these reasons... real simple. Nov/We could get a list from Ames. Norton/Sure, that would be worthwhile. Kubby/We also ...talked about officers being trained in even more tactics... as compensation for the canine unit... broaden the tactics that we use ....instituted different tactical training. Atkins/I read you as no for now, you want some additional information. Norton/I think Ames experience might be worthwhile. Atkins/We will do those things for you. That is fine. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 4 Nov/I spoke to Steve Shanker recently and he said in a case such as building search, they would have definitely used a canine ...... Woito/Would that have been just for a security check or indicia of criminal activities. Nov/I don't go into that. I asked if he used it for building search and he said yes. It wasn't drugs only .... 2. Plain English. Atkins/Plain English. Kubby/Yes. Norton/Can't hurt. Atkins/ Nov/The plainer, the better. [#3 not in the report] Nov/What happened to #3? Atkins/I am not sure. We will have to look at the original ..... Norton/I have to original one... it didn't have a #3 either. Atkins/Okay ..... 4. Weapon Used By Iowa City Police Officer Is Discharged. Atkins/...subject to an alcohol and drug test .... 'will be' as opposed to 'could be'. Woito/It is already in the policies that it could be. My recommendation is that it should be. Kubby/And why only is it resulted in injury or death? Woito/In terms of fairness... drug testing, you have to show a reasonable suspicion in order to intrude into someone's privacy .... You have to have grounds for it. Kubby/Whenever a firearm goes off', wouldn't that be not arbitrary? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 5 Woito/That is not arbitrary. That is reasonable grounds or suspicion to believe possibly the person is impaired ....You can pick another category of activity. That one seems most obvious. Nov/We don't want to say every time it is discharged for target practice or for shooting. It has to be more specific. Woito/It is suppose to mean where the discharge resulted to injury or death of a person. Nov/Right ..... Norton/... accidentally discharged. Woito/You can include that. It is up to you. Atkins/We had an accidentally discharge a number of years ago .... resulted in discipline for an officer .... off duty. Norton/Where it resulted in or may have resulted in the injury or death of a person. Thornberry/We would say 'may be subject'.... it would be up to the Chief to see .... Norton/ Woito/I recommend against leaving it with the Chief discretion. Nov/Okay .... We are doing too much overlap of voices here. Go ahead, please finish. Thornberry/I think the discretion... testing for alcohol or drugs should be left to the discretion of the Chief due to the fact .... you could find things .... Can you do this at the station, the alcohol and drug testing? ..... Winklehake/It depends on what you want to do. If you want to draw blood, you are going to go to a hospital. If you want to do an intoxalizer, we have one of those .... Thornberry/...anytime a weapon is discharged, I don't think it needs to go through all of that if it doesn't have to do with injury to a person. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 6 Nov/So you want to say if it results in injury or death to a person, the officer will be subject to the test and in other circumstances, it may be based on the judgment of the Chief of Police. Does that sound reasonable to everybody? Woito/Yes. Atkins/We have to expand that a little bit. Kubby/I prefer to say that a test will be done whenever a firearm is discharged except at the firing range or for the killing to put an animal down. Thornberry/Then you are getting a pretty narrow scope there. Anything else, then they need to do that, right? .... Baker/If you eliminate the thing killing the animals, it happens so rarely .....no big deal. Kubby/ Baker/If you eliminate the times that they have to kill an animal, the times that they have fired a weapon...rare .... Thornberry/Death or injury to a person, it has only happened once or twice. Kubby/I am talking about if you took my language ..... more times .... Norton/ Nov/ Winklehake/At the present time we will have people tested and we have to be able to articulate the reason why at the present time. We have done that ....We already do that. Woito/The DCI didn't do it in this case and I think the legitimate question has been asked, why did the DCI run tests on Eric Shaw and not on the person who shot him. I think that is a legitimate question. Winklehake/And I don't have the answer personally. Woito/Yeah, we don't have an answer to that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 7 Nov/In a situation such as the Shaw death, when we turned it over to the DCI, could we tell them out procedure is to require that test? Winklehake/I don't know of any reason why we wouldn't be able to. Kubby/We could just go ahead and do it. Nov/ Winklehake/I think we could still do that.. this is our policy and this is something that we are going to do. We will share the results with you. Kubby/Whether they choose to use those results or not. Baker/ Kubby/I still prefer to have those two exceptions. Norton/Every time it is discharged with those two exceptions? Kubby/Firing range or the putting down of an animal. Norton/I buy that. Nov/I would have no problem with that. Woito/So we have at least four. Atkins/So the two exceptions, you will subject to the test. Okay. 5. Internal Affairs Report-Detail Conclusion. Atkins/I will give... history on this .... When the Internal Affairs Report was done ..... one of the things that we thought were lacking is that we needed more of the thinking behind the two officers. Tell us why you got to where you got to making that recommendation ..... it should have been written down in more detail. Norton/Does this imply that there will be some kind of an outline? The organization of that report was somewhat hard to handle. Woito/That is going to be explored in your PCRB discussions. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 8 Kubby/ .... When an investigative report is made public, to number the pages from 1 to 200 .... Atkins/It is a compilation of information. The critical thing is what was the reason behind your conclusion and just spell it out for us. Norton/A structure will certainly help. 6. ICPD Training Curriculum Will Be Located In One Place. Arkins/... I don't think we have any trouble with that. Kubby/Good idea. Arkins/Training curriculum does change periodically ..... keep it up to date. Winkelhake/Responsibility sits with Captain Widmer. Norton/It should be curricula, incidentally, Steve. I got that before Naomi did. Arkins/ Nov/In addition to the training curricula, I would like to say that we will include this policies, procedures, PCRB, laws. etc. in the book that is available at the library for the public to see. Atkins/We may actually want to have a location because there are some other policies in here... any other relevant... use of force report .... Somewhere where it is all in one spot for everybody. We will try to find some way to do that. Nov/That is what I am saying. Vanderhoef/ Atkins/Certainly make it available in the Department for public review... library .... Vanderhoef/Clerk' s. Atkins/Try to put as many of those documents in one spot ..... Nov/I would suggest .... not a single place. This represents only a reasouably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 9 Atkins/More than one, okay. Nov/Keep it together. Atkins/Keeping it together is what I read here. You can put it in as many places as you want but keeping it together. Norton/ Atkins/Policies and procedures... regulations ..... Nov/It could be several notebooks. City Clerk's Office... Library .... Atkins/Okay, we will take care of that. That is an okay. 7. Use of Force Policy - Narrative and Graphic Presentation. Atkins/I think there are two elements here. The narrative and graphic presentation is already in the mill and we will have that prepared for you ....Video will certainly have to be updated .... Kubby/A few other communities... statement at the beginning about the sanctity of human life and I would like us to add that to our use of force policy .... Winklehake/What we are doing .... What we have done is we have drafted a new format where it very quickly highlights exactly what the general order is for and then in the policy statement I think you will find the kind of thing that you are talking about. We have in here it will have the... Law Enforcement Accreditation Standards that apply to that... it will be going to Legal... draft of the order .... If there is a model policy that goes with it that we retrieve from wherever we get it, it will be with it, the research that went into that particular drafting of that policy will be with it .....They will have the model policy, the research that went with that policy ....the draft... law enforcement accreditation standards that apply to that particular section ..... Legal... will have all that together .... It will all be there... Use of force, transportation of prisoners, written directive system... one other .... Woito/And if I have questions, I will talk to you and- Captain Widmer? Winklehake/With the accreditation, Captain Widmer is going to be the chair-person .... Involve as many people as we can in the Department .... in the process ..... Me, Captain Widmer, or Captain Harney and we can tell you who the people are that are actually working on it .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 10 Baker/R. J ..... On these written policies, how do you confirm that the officers understand? ..... Winklehake/... each officer would have to sign that order. The way the accreditation process ....What they recommend we do now is put them in certain areas of the building ....so they have a different place to get them... they will still have to sign off on individual sheets saying that I have read it, I understand it. Then there will be roll call training on the orders that will be conducted by the watch commanders. Baker/ Winklehake/...generally it is a discussion. Baker/But you are constantly getting a sense of their understanding and their grasped of the policy. Winklehake/ Kubby/If an order has not been changed for years ..... how does that get reinforced? Winklehake/What we are doing now is we are instituting a program where they will be at roll call ..... here is your topic for this month or this next two weeks. Watch commander, you need to go over this and share this information, update it, review .... There is a re-evaluation date .... when this is going to be officially looked at by the Department .... Kubby/How about a new officer that comes to work for us? Winklehake/For instance, on the use of force. One of the requirements of the use of force is that before they are put on the street carrying a weapon, that they are given it, they go over it and the use of force policies are given one on one .... field training officers .... also watch commanders ..... see the video we have and they would have a chance to answer questions .... Nov/ ....Do you have a regular system in there? Winklehake/The review process with the evaluation date, what we are going to do is stagger these dates so that there are a few orders every month that are going to be reviewed .... This represents only a reasouably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures Nov/How often will a specific policy come up for review? Winklehake/Probably every two years and some of them yearly .... Nov/I would like some assurance that use of force and other such things are going to be reviewed once a year and others that are less important .... can wait for two years .... I would not like to think of anything that waited for five years. Winklehake/...let me know .... If you think it is important for one year ..... Just need to know exactly what you think those would be. Nov/I agree with them. Thornberry/ Winklehake/Uniforms... every 3, 4 or 5 years unless we change the uniforms. Thornberry/ Nov/ 8. Requirement of Police Review Board - Involves Firearm. 9. Internal Review Committee. Atkins/I think you saw the number of use of force policies ..... Most of the policies... internal bodies created by the Chief.... it would be reviewed internally .... I don't think we officially had a policy and position .....This would sort of formalize the process. Norton/Could you use a word other than review board? Atkins/I think we will have to change the name. Norton/ ....internal investigation or something like that ..... Atkins/We think of something. Winklehake/Each use of force should be reviewed ..... #8 & 9 tie together .....I want to involve both of the Captains...operations ....training ....with additional people from the department. page 11 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WSO31597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 12 Atkins/ ....they do tie together. We are going to give you January/February use of force reports in a summary fashion that lists the incident, circumstances, type of force that had to be used and you will be getting that next week ..... Kubby/Are there other factors in terms of like training history or the specific officer, time on the force? ....I don't know what all the factors might be .....to try to track trends. Winklehake/The information we are gathering... will show us a great deal more .... we need to get a few months of that together .... may be able to determine some additional things that we need to look at for training .....I will look at age, experience .... Kubby/ Winklehake/Include both of the captains... training and field operations .....By having the two of them involved, we get a pretty good view .... Norton/Is this is what is called a shooter's committee in some of the reports that we have read? ..... Winklehake/That deals usually with the discharge of a weapon .... this is more than that. This is reviewing use of force ..... Norton/ Winklehake/This focuses directly to the use of force. Atkins/Example... officer involved in a circumstance... where they were about to make an arrest and the person ran. The officer chased the person and the issue involved was... put the person down and handcuffed him. At the time... when did they become complaint? Was it necessary to do this? And that is what you are doing a good analogy of the use of force. Norton/ Atkins/This is our folks looking at how we conduct ourselves in the use of force. Kubby/ Arkins/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 13 Vanderhoef/I am a little unclear. What is going to define that line between normal activity and what you might call use of force? Winklehake/Right now, when anybody applies use of force, that mean grabbing onto you... holding you... we have a report made. Those reports are reviewed first by the immediate supervisor, signed off by a watch commander, then it is signed off by the division commander, Captain Harney... then it comes to my office. I sign off on that .... those questions get answered right away. It is then prepared for a monthly report ..... take a look at that .... look at each single use of force .... We can make a better decision on how to do that in the future. That is what we are going to be focusing on in this. Kubby/I think that is really great ....More tools to work with in the future. I think it really is a great idea. Norton/...level 2 and above. Nov/I would. like less discretion in terms of handcuffing a suspect ..... Thornberry/...this was misinformation provided to us by an individual... I think you are going to have to be very very careful when dealing with youngsters ..... discretion of the officer is paramount ..... Nov/ Thornberry/][ think we are getting to the point where the officers are getting a little gun shy ia the fact that they are not wanting to do very much .... I am aft'aid that they are not going to- I don't want to handcuff the police to the point they are afraid to do their job .... Nov/The policy is handcuffs are appropriate .... I really think that a lack of behavior according to policy should be part of this review. Thornberry/][ think the discretion of the officer goes a long way. Baker/I don't want us to be telling the police ....I wouldn't base any kind of policy change based. on that incident. Nov/...let's base it on a general policy... review internally when force is used and when force should have been used and was not. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 14 Norton/ Council/(All talking). Nov/... poor judgment. Baker/...we don't know this was poor judgment .... Nov/I really believe that if someone should have been handcuffed and was not, it is subject to review. Thornberry/...every single incident is going to be brought up for review ..... Norton/ Nov/My point is there is a ladder of use of force and we are saying we are going to analyze use of force. I am saying if use of force was not properly used, meaning somebody was not handcuffed when they should have been, that also is subject to review. Kubby/How would we know? Woito/ Nov/You would know when there is a complaint. Norton/ Baker/Complaint from whom? Nov/You would know from the report written by the officer ..... Thornberry/Got the job done without resorting to handcuffs. Nov/Was he resorting to other use of force instead of handcuffs7 Was it proper use of force instead of handcuffs...? Kubby/ .....You use your discretion to choose not to handcuff.... That will be caught in this system. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 15 Baker/ Thornberry/When you handcuff is up to the individual officer ..... Council/(All talking). Norton/I want some assurance in the writing that it will come up. Kubby/Does that make sense ....... it would show up in this use of force report? Winklehake/The question was already asked how come he wasn't handcuffed ..... reason .... 1-.... he was a juvenile and 2- he dealt with him in the past .... He just said he dealt with it in the past and knew how he acted ....He didn't feel that he needed to handcuff him .... Kubby/ ....for any kind of incident where an officer should choose not to handcuff, where it becomes a contributing factor to escalating use of force. That is would show up in this report ...... Winklehake/It will show up. Kubby/ Thornberry/ Nov/ Council/ Norton/That is micro-managing at some point. Nov/ Thornberry/ Woito/It will show up in the use of force report. Nov/ ....#9. I would like to say that this summary of trends, etc., will be a written report and this report will be submitted to PCRB. Atkins/Sure .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 16 Nov/ ....part of their job to review. Atkins/Okay. Kubby/Then be part of that larger packet that is sent to the Clerk and the Library. Atkins/I think that answers #10. 10. Police Chief- Annual Report on Use of Force. Atkins/We will prepare an annual report and make it available to the public. Okay. Nov/Okay. 11. City Attorney - Training Constitutional Issues. Council/(Okay). Woito/Yesterday I edited one of those three materials- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-46 SIDE 2 12. Outside Employment. Atkins/... We have done that .....Substantially, the Chief makes those decisions. Baker/Are officers allowed to wear their uniform for private employment? Winklehake/For instance, if some business wants a police officer to direct traffic for them, to provide some sort of security... we will provide an officer in uniform and we pay them at 1 1/2 rate and then we bill the business ..... We are responsible for you .... You are our employee ..... We will bill the business for your time. Baker/... in addition to their shift. Winklehake/If you want to do that, it is not while you are working your 8 hours for us ..... Baker/ Thornberry/ Baker/The request has to come through the Department. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 17 Helling/...labor contract. The Chief does not approve all outside employment. The way it is written... Chief would determine if there is any kind of a conflict .... If a police officer goes out and gets a job and it no way conflicts with their police job .... contractually we have not right to approve or disapprove ..... Atkins/ Winklehake/We have officers... work with U.S. Marshall and transport prisoners for them, plain clothes, off duty...we do not control .... Baker/... using their Iowa City weapon? Winklehake/No, it should not be the Iowa City weapon and I can't tell you if they are armed ..... Baker/ Winklehake/ Woito/ Helling/... a job that any of us could get ....they are not acting in anyway as an Iowa City police officer. Woito/Well, they are acting as security for a federal entity. Baker/ Helling/... I am saying you don't have to be a police officer to get this other job. Woito/I think R. J. should approve those. Helling/We are going to have to change the contract. Woito/Really? Thornberry/ Baker/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 18 Norton/How far can he intrude? Thornberry/ Norton/ Thornberry/ Baker/If they want to sell real estate, I don't want to intrude. But if they are doing police work- Woito/Dale convinced me we have contracted away any review authority the Police Chief might have had... only requirement is that it doesn't conflict with their duty hours or their satisfactory performance ..... Vanderhoef/ Nov/They would then need to apply for two permits? One for the city and one for job X? Winklehake/I don't know the answer to that ..... Kubby/... you don't need a permit for each weapon. Nov/Do we not have a registration for each weapon? Thornberry/No. Nov/ Woito/ Council/(All talking). Woito/Paragraph 12 should be taken out of here. Right? Kubby/No, this is just kind of a housekeeping thing ..... Norton/ Kubby/In terms of non-city business, Iowa City police work is what we are talking about .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 19 Winklehake/... If you want an ICP officer in uniform or plain clothes, that I have something to say about. Norton/But you do not approve outside employment? Winklehake/.. they have to tell me that they are doing it. Norton/ Woito/Notify in advance. Norton/ Nov/ 13. City Attorney - Reviewing Agency. Atkins/... that is done. Nov/On #13, I would like to add PCRB ..... I would like PCRB review after City Attorney review .... because it is part of the job. Kubby/I agree .....Then PCRB is reviewing them .... Nov/Okay. Atkins/Okay. 14. Annual Report ou Training Activities. Atkins/... ties back to #6. We will put them all in one location ..... Vanderhoef/Will there be two reports? One for the training and probationary people and then another one... continuing education for all officers? Atkins/ Winklehake/ .... probably be in one report. Atkins/Do you want to call out the probationary officers in some fashion? ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 20 Vanderhoef/Either that or what kind of training is on-going for our regular staff above and beyond ..... Atkins/We have training exercises .... I am not sure what you mean by on-going... On- going means we are constantly scheduling training activities. Vanderhoef/Those are for the entire department... The probationary people will have that plus extras. Atkins/ Winklehake/I think I know what you are talking about .... Norton/ Woito/If MATS occurred during the one year probationary training period, would the probationary officers attend the MATS training? Winklehake/Yes. Atkins/It is intended to be comprehensive .....I am okay with that .... Thornberry/ Atkins/An annual training report is a public document .....gives you a flavor of what they are doing .... Nov/Yeah, I think that is reasonable ..... 15. Detailed Distribution List- Include City Attoruey. Atkins/That's done. Nov/Add PCRB on that one also ..... Atkins/ Winklehake/I will add that to the list of distribution on the written directives so they are included right in there .... Nov/...keep them on the distribution list. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 21 16. Mission Statement. Atkins/ ....We will do that. Kubby/Okay. Nov/That is fine. Kubby/Since we are talking about the Citizen's Task Force and the Mission Statement, one of the- In the memo that I had put out on 2/10 suggests that we look at the issue of non-violence philosophy in training ..... Goal is to provide quality police services while being at either not using force or using the least amount of intervention as possible. But it is not really stated explicitly in our mission statement ..... put it off for a different discussion? ..... looking at reviewing our mission statement again... include some of that philosophy? Thornberry/I think we could look at that at a different time ..... Kubby/ ....Vision 2000 ..... Woito/This recommendation from staff, #16, came out of our realization that in response to the Citizen Task Force, the terms in the old mission statement that I like which was to serve and protect was deleted. That is why this recommendation is in here to you, to go back to the basics of the Police Department. Kubby/I think we need to review this again in more detail. I am suggesting that we add one more concept... stating- Nov/Do we have four people who want to review this at some other time? ..... Council/(Yes). Nov/Okay, I think I see four people saying review later. 17. City Attorney Notification - Internal Affairs Investigation. Atkins/ .... Done. It will happen. Kubby/I had an issue .... Are there sometimes when this could create some kind of conflict later? ..... If criminal charges were brought and the City Attorney needed to defend or- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 22 Woito/I would not defend if there were criminal charges ..... ethically I have to hire outside counsel. Kubby/ Woito/Our office will be representing the Police Department. The PCRB will have their own attorney. Winklehake/ Kubby/ Woito/If it creates a conflict, we will disclose it. Winklehake/ ....our legal counsel is the City Attorney's Office .... Norton/I would like to be reassured on #17 .... Does this cover .... the structure of internal reports so they are more easily assimilated than what I have dealt with? ..... Standard format for an internal report? Woito/The current draft of the PCRB Ordinance requires that the Board work together with the Chief of Police, City Manager, and my office to draft guidelines on format for police investigation. Norton/ ....none existing now? Woito/There are and they need to be updated a little bit. Winklehake/The internal affairs general order outlines how the report should be put together. Norton/Kind of hard to track the one that we had ..... Atkins/I would share the same concern that you had ..... referenced in the statement. Norton/ Woito/A lot of people don't take naturally to writing. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 23 Woito/They need practice .... you just have to sit down and write and write .... You need to sit down with them and help them learn how to write. We can do that. 18. Use of Language "unfounded", "exonerated", and/or "not sustained" Is Not Sufficient - Internal Affairs Investigation. Atkins/ ....That is language lifted from the current procedure we have and we will be changing that.,. direct reference back to #5. Nov/Part of the plain English ..... Atkins/ ....big explanation of why did you reach that conclusion .... Thornberry/ ....explanation of what it is unfounded, I understand. 19. Internal Affairs Reports - "Be Brief". Atkins/These are things we are taking out of the report documents itself to improve the quality of the document that we will present to you. Nov/Improve documents and plain English. Kubby/ ....why do you want synopsis? Why don't you want to full story? Atkins/I don't know. Norton/Why synopsize? I agree. Winklehake/You should generally have something that is going to say this synopsized what happened and then you can go back and read the whole thing. Kubby/ Atkins/Like an executive summary of some kind. Norton/I understand that. That is fine .... Kubby/It is not that the officer's report is synopsized? It is the internal affairs report about the different pieces. Winklehake/...final of what you are going to read is maybe just a couple of pages with all the other documentation there ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 24 Nov/Let' s say executive summary instead of synopsis ..... Atkins/I would like to have some discussion... #19 .... "prior disciplinary history of the individual involved" will be included in the report. I have a question, can we do that? .... I am just not sure about that one ..... Woito/The terms of the PCRB's duties... or whatever external accountability system we come up with, it will show- If there is a trend in terms of progressive discipline .... you need to know ..... Norton/How public does that have to be? Atkins/My concern is including it in the report .....I don't know the answer to that. Woito/We have been researching this-open meetings and public records and we are really flying by the seat of our pants on a lot of this because no one deals with this problem like we do ..... case by case basis on whether we can be public ..... Thornberry/ Atkins/IfI am presented with a disciplinary case and someone were to present to me that this is the first incident ....but ifI am presented that this is the third time, I view it far far differently. Thornberry/ Woito/That work should be done so he can review it. Thornberry/An individual's disciplinary history shouldn't be- Baker/Context here is discipline ...... also based upon a prior record ..... I am reluctant to release too much of an individuals prior record publicly. Council/(All talking). Kubby/ ..... why should be a matter of public record... Why doesn't the public have a right? ..... due process. Atkins/In an appeal, it is public. A Civil Service is all public. Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 25 Norton/You are thinking about the PCRB ..... should it be in the same report or should they get that somehow separately? Nov/It isn't just they. What if someone who has had a problem with this police officer, goes to this department and says I want all the record...? Woito/No- Nov/IfI were to ask for the internal review report on a specific incident, would I be allowed to have that? Woito/It depends. If there is a finding of misconduct and you apply a balancing test of whether the officer's right to confidential personnel records is outweighed by the needs for the public to know about a serious misconduct- It is a hard question. Nov/So it is not generally open to the public? Woito/Correct. Baker/And that individual does have some rights. Woito/Yes. Thornberry/ Woito/Rules of evidence. Kubby/...We have progressive discipline. Internally we take that into account. Nov/Excuse me... Larry has to go. Baker/ Kubby/This isn't on the agenda... wanted to bring it up. The letter that we got stating that the DCI Report will not be turned over and that we had said earlier that if the informal process didn't get it, that we make an attempt for the Freedom of Information Act request ..... Baker/(Can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 26 Woito/I think Larry said yes. Nov/All right, let the record reflect that Larry said yes on his way out the door. Thornberry/And Ernie said no. Norton/Yes to what? Nov/To a formal Freedom of Information request ..... Baker/(Can't hear). Kubby/We got your answer on record. [Baker left- 9:50 PM] Atkins/On #19, we are struggling .... Council/(All talking). Nov/I will put that in for a later review and then we can go on. Winklehake/ .... When whoever does the internal affairs report and I get that, I want to be able to read that and be able to make a determination on that particular incident. After that I will go back and look at previous. The document that I want, I would prefer not to have the prior discipline there ..... Woito/Then how can we apply progressive discipline? Winklehake/... I go back and look what had happened in the past. Atkins/... everyone knows everybody... Issue of fairness .....tough not to know someone's performance record. Nov/State this policy as saying prior discipline history of the individual involved will be reviewed after reading the report. Kubby/I thought we were going to discuss this later. Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 27 Norton/Doesn't seem to be terribly germane .... Nov/We will review that one later. 20. Citizen Complaints - Personalized Letter. Arkins/... That is being done. Kubby/If for some reason we have to send a lot of letters out, I personally don't mind a standardized letter as long as there is some personal stuff written in addition to that. Atkins/Idea is to- Norton/Somehow personalize it. Winklehake/We have been doing it .... do a personal letter. 21. ICPD Use of Force Policy - International Association of Chiefs of Police. Atkins/... I think we have done all of that ..... Kubby/Also appears to more satisfactorily address more community standards .... I really- How do we know what our community standards are?... I want to talk at some point about how do we go about that process ..... Community would want to be involved .... Atkins/Fine. Kubby/ Thornberry/ Norton/Vision 2000 was one process. Thornberry/ Norton/Point is the process was an attempt to get a rather broad section of people. Kubby/ Atkins/Whole issue of community standards...difficult .... legitimate point for discussion .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 28 22. Use IAP "Use of Deadly Force" Statement - City Attorney Training. Atkins/ ..... We reference their model policy. It is all attached ..... Kubby/So that means an officer does not pull their firearm out unless they feel that they would need that high up on the continuum .... ? Atkins/They have to actually make that decision ..... Winklehake/ ....you need to be able to articulate .... Kubby/We need to allow some discretion ..... need to narrow that down a little bit. Winklehake/...there is a whole discussion about what reasonable cause means ..... Woito/It categorizes display of a weapon as use of deadly force. Nov/One more question on #22. Is there any interest in saying drawing of a weapon is optional and detail when it is optional or how it is optional? ..... Woito/I think the policy will- Winklehake/The policy addresses it the best way. There is a great deal of research done. The International spent a great deal of time researching that ....City Attorney agrees .....Officers need to be able to have that discretion ....they are going to have to be able to say this is why I did that. Norton/ Woito/It can't be something just floating around in their mind. Norton/ Woito/It has to be objectively visible by other people. Atkins/Articulable. Kubby/ Norton/We use the word 'use of a weapon' a lot and I want to be sure that we distinguish drawing, displaying, and discharging. Those are the three categories and I want to be sure that we are clear about that ..... Be clear what we mean by that .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 29 Winklehake/In our use of force reporting, it says drawn. Norton/ Winklehake/ Kubby/That change in policy, to me is a huge shift... important.. is that reporting. Norton/To draw your weapon in the presence of other people is an entirely different category ..... Kubby/ Winklehake/I believe your answers are in here ..... Nov/May I request clarification ....? Winklehake/The only difference... use of force draft that Legal will have. Behind that is the model policy you have .... research .... accreditation standards and I would assume that you are going to see all of this in one pile. Nov/The blue pages in our book are not as complete as what we have in the future. Kubby/We'll we be getting that. Woito/Not until after I have seen it. Yes, you will. 23. Refresher Courses - Building Searches. Atkins/ Woito/It was a recommendation. I don't want to teach on building searches. Atkins/I thought you want to do it. Winklehake/We are starting up a training session .... going to be repeated at either end of April or beginning of May. We need to make sure we have that tied around the University students leaving... going to try and repeat that at least four times .... for Iowa City ..... trying to make sure we have a full day of training .... also have some tougher training .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures Nov/Doing this kind of training... we endorse ....New video training equipment. Thornberry/Drawing of pepper spray is what level? ..... Will that involve a report? Winklehake/Yes .... Level 4 ....It would require a report every time it is used. Thornberry/ Council/ Winklehake/Take it out and hold .....have it out but they will not use it .....If you use it, yes we want to report it. Kubby/Or you threaten to spray it. Winklehake/ Kubby/It is a real legitimate question. Norton/Use of it is level 4. Winklehake/Some departments have it much lower .... once we do the training... may be some revision in there. Thornberry/ Winklehake/You have to go through training before you can use it. Thornberry/They sell it over the counter. Kubby/ Winklehake/ Norton/You have training in building search now. Woito/We need to incorporate it into out training. Norton/Isn't it called out in our field training ....? We are enhancing it. page 30 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 31 Woito/...this is not Linda doing lectures on building searches. This is Tommy Widmer and his folks training people on building searches ..... Norton/ Nov/The refresher list .... building searches as part of refresher training. This is one of the things we want to review on a yeafly basis. Kubby/I had a memo that had a couple of other topics that had to do with police procedure. I want to make sure that we have a chance to talk about those before we go on to PCRB or questions. Atkins/I will take these 23 recommendations back... put together a summary memo pointing out ..... modifications .... I will get a summary memo to you. Nov/I do want us to consider this special video training equipment. Whether or not we should purchase it. Atkins/ Kubby/I thought that was already in the- Atkins/In the budget. [Council Break[ Police Policies Discussion Con't 97-47 S1 Kubby/I have some continued policy questions from my memo that we haven't finished up. Nov/Okay, let's go back to policies. Kubby/We didn't get extra copies of my February 10 memo. Nov/I have mine .... Kubby/We have kind of talked about #1 & 2 .... Karr/Do you want me to make copies? Kubby/The front page has my name on it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 32 Council/ Kubby/So I am looking at the second page, #3, suggesting that all policies should be written .... Are there other policies of actions that officers take frequently that we don't have written policy to back up? Winklehake/There are a number of actions that officers take that you don't have a written policy per se. For instance, making traffic stops ..... there is training on the proper way to do that ..... It is a training issue .... It is trained through the Academy and through the field training officer .... Kubby/Are there processes or stops that officers due frequently... different from the Academy training that would be worthwhile for us to have policies on? .... Winklehake/I have to think about that .... Kubby/For example, with the open door situation .... frequent basis... something that they typically do... that it makes sense somehow to have a written policy ..... Vanderhoef/Do you think it is policy that we are looking at or procedure that comes up with the training? .... Kubby/I am not sure. Vanderhoef/ Winklehake/A lot of it is training of policy ....practice .... Kubby/So that people... police officers are real clear about the expectations in the community .... in how to do police work .... accountability .... Just so that it is seen and can be used as a legitimate expectation document on the front end and accountability document on the back end. Norton/Haven't we agreed to do so... with respect to building searches ..... more explicit about that .... Some policy about how to proceed in building searches. Woito/I think there should be a written curricula on it. Norton/...other areas.. that need to be articulated more clearly than perhaps is now the case? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 33 Thornberry/Depends on how much detail you want to do .... Kubby/ Winklehake/What I hear you are saying is that if we are doing training, we should be able to document what we have done and how that got to the officers .... whether it is a written policy or practice that we follow. Kubby/Yes .... so that I know what the standard tactics would be .... Winklehake/Some of the things we have talked with our cable t.v. folks .... do a video and use it on cable t.v ..... less questions and less concerns .... Use cable t.v. not only to produce training videos ...but some other information things .... Thornberry/ Winklehake/Things we can do through cable t.v ..... train our people, provide information to our citizens .... We can do a lot with that. Kubby/Are there things other than building search tactics being outlined and having a written open door policy that we think should be a little more gelled?... I would like something that comes back to us for further discussion. To have staff look at to say are there other aspects of police work that could be outlines a little bit more. Winklehake/I think going through this accreditation process .... require a written directive or general order .... identify many of the things you are talking about .... Norton/When I went down your field training list .... some of those are going to be covered ..... That is going to be written out, I take it? Woito/Yes. Norton/...figure out which other ones need to be called out in more detail .... Kubby/I would like this discussion to be a continued discussion category. Nov/Have you thought about other categories than building searches that you might like to include? Kubby/No ..... things that we do all of the time .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 34 Nov/We are basically asking for a written outline instead of just verbal training ..... Kubby/R. J. said that through the accreditation process we may identify areas where a written order is warranted .... Nov/I don't know how much more discussion we can have. Kubby/ ....go through the manual and identify .... Norton/ Winklehake/ Vanderhoef/ .... I don't know how to define this difference between what your calling policy and what you are calling procedure and practice. Kubby/ ....Accreditation will help us outline those. That may be satisfactory for now. Nov/I think for now it is going to be satisfactory. I think we have to say that wherever we have had procedures with various discretionary decisions, they ought to be in writing. I don't want oral policies or oral procedures. Norton/You could go through the probationary training manual ..... There might be several where you want to see it in writing. Nov/Yes, good, okay. Do you have something else, Karen? Kubby/Yes. I would like us to think about having a policy of some kind of down time after a gun is drawn .... I think there are some physiological changes that go on .... I think some down time is warranted after that gun is drawn. Thornberry/I think if that is instituted, I think we would have to differentiate between .... interaction between a person and an animal ..... I don't think it should be mandatory that he have down time and not be patrolling his beat .....I think it would be up to the officer .... Kubby/ Thornberry/I think it would be completely up to you how you would feel ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 35 Kubby/I would suggest that euthanizing an animal is different ..... Thornberry/It may be or may not be .... Norton/Let's take a specific case .... they did draw weapons in that Lakeside investigation. So they would have had to go back to the office or department... I find it sticky .... I find it difficult to make a flat rule. Kubby/What we just decided on is that sidearms should not be exhibited or displayed in the absence of facts which necessitate the use of deadly force ....their adrenaline better be running and that has some lasting effects. Norton/I agree ....What do you think about that suggestion ....? Winklehake/Before we ever hire somebody, they have to go through a psychological testing procedure that is mandated by the state ..... We do have the capability now of a supervisor taking somebody off' duty. We can do that .... Norton/ Winklehake/... we don't have one on one supervision ..... We have a level of supervision now .... better chance of a supervisor being able to respond to some of these situations .... Do I think it is practical, no. Do I think it is necessary, no ..... Hopefully we have people who can handle that weapon and not respond inappropriately .... I don't think it is practical... or reasonable to expect that we are going to have them off duty ..... Kubby/ Winklehake/...the departments that we spoke to, the only one that have somebody go on administrative leave or down time is when the gun is discharged and someone is injured or killed. That is when they put somebody on administrative leave .... Norton/Is that our procedure, too? .... Winklehake/Our procedure, yes. And fact, that is what we did and we were criticized for doing that ..... We have a healthier professional who makes an evaluation and tells us that officer is fit to come back to work. I would not want to change that at all. Nov/I think the current procedure is adequate. Is there anyone else who wants to change it? Sounds like you are alone on that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 36 Kubby/#5 is really for council. I really think we need to have some kind of crisis plan for all different kinds of community crisis that we might be confronted with .... We didn't deal with the situation very timely or very well as a council and we need to do something proactively to rectify it... continued discussion item. Atkins/I would be happy to draft it. Kubby/ Norton/That ought to be connected with the Emergency Management Plan .... worth it to look at emergency things ....being prepared for these things ....who is on first here .... Kubby/ .... easily identify people like Chuck Schmadeke, Rick Fosse .... R. J. and Andy and Steve and council members, the Attorney .... We have some people we could easily pin point that we should focus some training as well as ourselves .... Norton/Very crucial with our relation with other communities .... We really need to do it. Atkins/I could draft something for you. Norton/We might need to spend a workshop on it. Woito/You might also consider a professional PR person ..... Kubby/We could have called Ann Rhodes .... Norton/Let's not call it a PR person. Give me a break. Kubby/An information person. Woito/A person to coordinate information to the public .... Atkins/That makes the assumption, remember, you can communicate. Kubby/ Atkins/My experience when I was in Wisconsin .... there was no communications .... Woito/ ....we learned from this. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 37 Thornberry/...there should be some sort .... Norton/We are going to get a flood plan... Next meeting up at Palo .... We are proceeding... Kubby/... We feel as community leaders we need to understand the process and be able to communicate. Norton/ ....briefing from that person ....That would be on the larger scale .... Atkins/I would like the task of drafting something for you. Nov/I have some information strategy/media strategy kinds of stuff that I can share. Kubby/I just had two last things. One .... other Iowa colnmunities do in terms of use of force policy and one of them that Ames has... exempting non-violent civil rights demonstrators from use of force policy... broaden that.. to say any non-violent demonstrators .... Atkins/Ames... didn't like the language ....community standard... convoluted. Kubby/Non-violent, passive, non-cooperation, people need to be removed... make sure our officers are not having back injuries .... I do not want to place our workers in a position of having back injuries.. other ways people deal with those kinds of incidents .... Norton/They had to carry us off the Pentecrest years ago .... including me ..... Thornberry/And I was serving my country in the armed services. Council/ Winklehake/Our policy ... announced that you were being arrested and here is what we are going to do .... You can get up and walk .... or pain compliance .... Under use of force that we had changed in '95, we didn't do that anymore .... Kubby/I would like that to be written down. Winklehake/It is... use of force policy... think about what levels you are at ....As long as it is non-resistant, you get carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 38 Kubby/I didn't interpret that as explicitly as you are stating it. I will go back and read that again. Winklehake/It is there. That is the training that we have done .... Nov/Written documents on non-violent protests .... tell us you are going to be there .... Thornberry/...permit for that? Woito/You are suppose to. Atkins/ Woito/We don't arrest for First panendment. Council/(All talking). Nov/Seeins to me that we had a written explanation .... Atkins/... such a statement and such a policy or procedure, we should have. Very simply, read this .... Do you understand, now that you understand, we will proceed. I think it is a good idea. Panes, we can do it better. Kubby/I hope that ...back injury prevention .... back injuries... lot of down time .... I am glad that that is clarified. So we are going to have a more explicit statement? Atkins/Yes. We will do that. I assuming everyone is okay on that. Thornberry/ Kubby/No policy change- Atkins/Just spell out what we do it now. Kubby/My last thing that was on my memo... we had.. said that we would informally ask Pat White to ask for the release of the full DCI report. We have gotten that answer back .... Does the council want to go ahead with our previous decision to file an official Freedom of Information Act request to the Attorney General for the release of the full DCI report? We can ask for full .... We can ask for what we want .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures Woito/ Kubby/I think we should do what we can. Woito/Do you want me to draft that? Thornberry/No, not yet. Nov/Not yet .... compelling argument... involved in a possible civil rights prosecution... I am sure this request... denied .... Norton/ Thornberry/Sounds like... would not be releasing it ....I am not willing to do it. Woito/The Department of Justice inquiry is criminal. Norton/So we don't know where this is going on two fronts .... Kubby/Is there a legally legitimate reason to not request the information? Woito/No, it is not a legal... purely a policy question for you as a council. It is a legally legitimate reason... to deny release. Nov/Because they explained so carefully why they are denying release, our request in a different from appears to say we didn't understand .... Norton/It is tricky ....Do you think, in other words, it would be pounding sand in a rat hole? Woito/ Norton/Kind of worthless. Norton/I have never seen rat holes or sand. Norton/On the other hand there is a symbolic quality ..... value. Nov/ page 39 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 40 Kubby/Doesn't sound like there are even near four votes ..... Two clear ones, Larry's and mine .... Nov/ Kubby/Couldn't we file a Freedom of Information Act that says as soon as these other cases are determined ..... request that you release the full DCI report? Woito/Yes. Thornberry/... at that point, then I think we can talk about asking for the request. Norton/Why not put that request into it now .... when can they do it. Kubby/We can formulate the request as we choose to. We can say as soon as the Grand Jury has made their determination if there is going to be one and as soon as the Department of Justice has made their determination, we request that you release the full DCI report. Nov/I could word it that way. Norton/I could too. So could Larry. Kubby/...that is a fourth vote. Norton/ Kubby/ Woito/I talked to Pat White after this same issue ..... they are going to have to do that balancing test ..... Pat agrees with me. Kubby/ Norton/ Nov/I suspect that there are multiple requests on file. Kubby/Osha... was not an official ..... Thornberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate trauscription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 41 Kubby/... we have four votes. Norton/A conditional request, yeah .... Thornberry/If you have four votes, fine .... Kubby/ ....for timing reasons, we should do it now. Norton/...what could hurt. Nov/Okay, I hear that we would like to see a draf~ of a letter that requests formal Freedom of Information release after all criminal investigations have ceased. Norton/ Woito/Okay, I will get you a draft letter. Vanderhoef/Legally, three years, right? Nov/ ....comes out anyway .... Vanderhoef/ Nov/I would like to see the form. Kubby/Thank you ..... PCRB Discussion 97-47 S1 Nov/... based on the fact that Ernie is not here and Larry is not here ....PCRB might wait for the next time? Kubby/I think we need as full as compliment as possible. Norton/I hate to get along without everybody .... Nov/I had the marking of questions... previous... run through those. I am looking at the one that says January 17. Woito/Do you plan to discuss PCRB at your April 1 meeting? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 42 Nov/ ....We are not going to get it today ..... Woito/April 1, 2:00 to 5:00. Nov/ ....We do plan a p.h. after the council has polished the ordinance ..... Previously Submitted Questions 97-47 S1 Nov/I was looking at this one (1/17) .... Karr/Do you need any copies made of anything? .... Council/ Karr/I will make copies ..... Council/ Kubby/There were more than that document given to us that were questions by citizens as well ..... Nov/I don't have them. Marian has them .... repetitious questions .... I tried to pull out the ones that I thought we had not discussed before .... Kubby/ Council/(All talking). CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-47 SIDE 2 Council/(All talking). Nov/We are not going to answer unanswered questions today. I just want everybody to mark the copies .... Can talk about answers .... Page 2- Is there anything here? .... Norton/#26 in the pink answers? Atkins/Old pink? Kubby/#4 or #2? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures Nov/#2, I wasn't sure .....Okay. Page 3- Page 4- Page 5, #11 I thought was difficult to answer ..... Kubby/I think R. J. tried his best to clarify. Norton/ Nov/ Winklehake/... watch commander was Lieutenant Sellers. Norton/Who was patrol supervisor? Winklehake/Lieutenant Sellers, the watch commander, was there .... Nov/Moving on. Norton/...Who does get it if the Chief doesn't? Atkins/Memo...Captain Harney... his responsibility ..... Nov/Page 6- Is there a philosophy of the Police Department? Norton/ Kubby/...mission ....We decided to go back and review some aspect of that. Nov/A mission statement and philosophy... synonymous .... Moving on. Next page- Kubby/I thought #16 had not been answered by us. Nov/I am certainly not going to try to answer. Kubby/I am looking at the question what other changes have been made of the policy since '89 ..... That was not answered. Nov/Is there an answer? Can you provide a list of policies that were changed since you came? page 43 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 44 Winklehake/I suppose I can try by going through every memo, order that we have issued .... Atkins/Also been a number of programmatic changes ..... extension of policy Woito/...everything .... Nov/ Winklehake/We have expanded greatly on that .... I would have to go back through the General orders... memos .... Nov/Practices and procedures rather than policies .... Winklehake/Training policy has been greatly expanded .... major change in policy for the Department ..... Norton/ Nov/Hard to know exactly what they are talking about ..... Kubby/Motivation.. evaluation. Helling/ .... Have there been changes in hiring practices relating to age and experience? The answer to that is no, there hasn't been? .... We are doing the same process .... Kubby/ Helling/Still the MMPI .... Kubby/Is that a requirement of state? .... Helling Yes, it is...an evaluation ..... Kubby/There is no local control? .... Helling/The exam I for some sort of personality inventory and they are assigned certain classifications ..... Not a pass/fail. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 45 Helling/There is some case law that says you can't automatically just because of the classifications. Norton/...might be time to take another look. Helling/The state requires that we use it, yes. Winkelhake/The person that does it is situated here in Iowa City ....interpretation is done locally by somebody here. Nov/ Kubby/Are we saying that a majority does not want to have this question answered more than what has been stated? Nov/Yeah .... fact that we have more policies and procedures in writing than we use to have. Moving on .... Next page. Kubby/#20 .... Nov/That is an individual answer. I don't think we as a council can answer that question .... It has been as individuals .... Norton/#16, 17 & 18 .... whether council got reports? Have we always? .... Atkins/I report on departments ..... Is there a formalized reporting process in all ten of the operating departments, the answer is no. Nov/All we are saying now is that we have answered the questions .... Norton/There will be more? Atkins/There are more items, for example, with respect to police issues .....that we will be reporting to you about .... Nov/Under the new scheme we will be reviewing procedural changes. Atkins/And if you adopt the PCRB .... Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures Nov/Page 9, #23-27. Is there anything people want to ask? Norton/I didn't know how to answer #24. Atkins/We have an insurance program and we pay $37,000 a year for police liability which is $5 million. The cost of insurance should not change substantially... $100,000 deductible .... normal market changes .... Nov/ Atkins/Period of time, 10-12 years ago .....got no coverage .....number of changes in the law... market had to adjust ..... Norton/ Atkins/We have the deductible. There is an expected level of loss. We are also an excellent customer. Woito/Our overall claim history has been low over the past 10 years. Norton/ Atkins/Wee are also in a reasonable competitive market. Nov/Page 10- Kubby/#29 .... communication between the three officers on the scene. Nov/I am not sure that we talked about #28 either ..... Kubby/We need to go back for #28 & 29. Nov/I think we should go back .....I thought ~29 was relatively well answered in internal affairs .... Norton/...but not together clear .... Nov/We could probably get a little more information on #28. Atkins/We will flag these and go back through and see what we have. You are saying we may need some more or we may not. ~28 & 29 are the two I circled. page 46 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 47 Nov/I thought #29 was relatively answered .... Kubby/ Atkins/We may come to the same conclusion. Kubby/I am looking at a, b, c. #29, a, b, c. Norton/ Nov/... kind of thing they normally do. Kubby/ Nov/We circled both of them. Next page-... Kubby/#33 .... Atkins/I thought you asked the officers did you know Eric Shaw. You asked that question. We can confirm that for you. Winklehake/...that question was asked ..... Council/ Winklehake/I also checked out internal records .... Norton/I didn't have an answer to #32b ..... Kubby/ Helling/His statement was part of the internal investigation, but I don't think he was interviewed by the DCI. Council/ Nov/We just don't know. Helling/ ....We can find out. We will ask Sid ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 48 Nov/DCI was handed the report of the internal investigation ..... We just don't know. Helling/Part of the internal investigation were statements taken by the department .... Winklehake/Anything we did... were given to the DCI ..... Norton/ Council/ Norton/Was he interviewed by Fort and Sellers during the internal investigation? Seems strange that he wasn't. Helling/I don't think he was interviewed. I think they used his statement. I will have to check. Norton/That strikes me as strange that he wasn't. Woito/ Norton/ Thornberry/Just ask Sid if he was interviewed by the DCI. Nov/That is fine. Kubby/ Nov/Page 12- Kubby/I think a lot of these questions about city council stuff has not been talked about .... #35-40 .... Nov/#35 City council differed in opinion. Kubby/Not do, it is how did? Nov/I can't see anyway to answer that one. Kubby/Part of it is that we did not come together as a group. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 49 Nov/We didn't. Kubby/... talk further .... Norton/ Kubby/So basically we are not going to answer these questions specifically but we are going to try to formulate a plan on how to do it different than we did. Norton/#41 & 42. Kubby/ Nov/Turn the page. I don't see how we can respond to #43. What if kind of question. Kubby/#43c. The council did not give Steve any instructions .... The answer is no. Nov/I think we have answered that... he wasn't following our directions .... Page 14- Kubby/Page 14, b, c, & d. (#47) .... not in terms of around that area .... Atkins/That is not too difficult to put together .....prepare that for you ..... Nov/We had some kind of information about where burglaries had taken place in the past. Kubby/Especially b .... Atkins/If you want one, we will do it for you. Vanderhoef/We is so significant about 5 blocks versus 6 blocks. Kubby/I thought the task here was the question was not answered ..... Vanderhoeff What information we have for that area is adequate for answering the question for me. Norton/ Woito/People that were responsible for the burglaries are being prosecuted. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 50 Thornberry/Interesting to have as a business owner in that area, I was not aware .... of all of the activity at that time ..... I was not aware. I am a lot more aware now .... Somehow businesses need to be made aware that this is going on so they can be a little more diligent. Winklehake/We have a couple of ways we are trying to do that... Chamber .... Community policing. Atkins/Dee, do you want a map? Nov/I think we could get a little more information on that. Atkins/Okay. Nov/Next page (page 15) .... Kubby/#49 we have not talked about. Nov/I think 48, 49, 50, 51 are all things we haven't exactly talked about. Kubby/May be relevant to our discussion about canine units as well. Norton/So 48, 49, 50, 51 we are agreeing we can look a little more to? Nov/Yes. Atkins/We can roll that into some canine discussion. That would make sense. Nov/Yeah .... Winklehake/...burglars usually don't tell us if they are armed. Nov/... 56 is obviously not answerable. I don't know what to say about #57 .... I don't know how much we can answer. Does anybody else have anything here? Kubby/#60, page 18 .... Kubby/We do have other questions that have been submitted by the public .... are some others... Dave Moore... Penny... Nov/For the next time. We agreed people had to leave at noon ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS031597 March 15, 1997 Council Work Session-Police Policies and Procedures page 51 Adjourned: 12:00 PM. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 15, 1997 WS051597