Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-05-05 TranscriptionMay 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 1 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session 7:05 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Schoon, Head, Nasby, Klingaman, Fosse, Winstead, Goodman, Mitchell, Fowler. Tapes: 97-72, all; 97-73, all; 97-74, all; 97-75, all. Review Zonin~ Matters 97-72 S1 a. Public Hearing on the proposed Scott-Six Urban Renewal Plan for a proposed Urban Renewal Area in the City of Iowa City, Iowa. Franklin/First item is a p.h. on the Scott Six Urban Renewal Plan. This is for the industrial park... necessary to get us into the TIF. You have already looked at the plan itself.... P/Z Commission... recommended it. The other step that took place... we have the consultation with the other taxing entities. We have received no comment from either the county, the school district or the community college... letter from the county which basically agreed to the annexation and they asked for a maintenance agreement on 420th Street but didn't speak to the taxing issue. Are there any questions about the Urban Renewal Plan .... Nov/We are assuming that we are going to go with 20 years on that? Franklin/That is our recommendation to continue with the 20 years. Norton/ Franklin/Our recommendation is 20 years. You may go 15 and then extend. We found that after our last meeting that you can do that .... Lehman/ Franklin/We inquired of Coralville of that they were doing because that is how this came up was the Coral Ridge Mall. It is a very different circumstance with the Coral Ridge Mall. They know exactly what is going in there, when it is going to be built and when they are going to start getting that tax revenue back. We don't know with the industrial park exactly when that is going to get off the ground, what is going to be built there, how much revenue is coming back and it would be limiting ourselves, we think, unnecessarily. So we would still recommend the 20 years. You can cut it back at any time during that time period, if you choose to, once you have paid back your indebtedness. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 2 Nov/I would like to go to 20. Kubby/We can go either way. Norton/ Vanderhoef/There is also the possibility, correct, that you could go less than 100% TIF ..... Norton/ ....only take 80% of what is TIF so that the other entities get something. Thomberry/ Franklin/If you are only going to use 80% of the increment for TIF, the 20% would go to the General Fund and the other taxing entities. Is that a variable that you are suggesting? Vanderhoef/ Lehman/Sort of thing we would be discussing after the p.h. when we discuss it. Kubby/If we close the p.h .....wouldn't that have to be part of the p.h.? Franklin/Yeah, you should. Kubby/Time frame and other kinds of parameters should be in the plan. Franklin/ .... The notion of instead of using all of the increment for paying back the indebtedness, that we take say 80% of the increment and use that to pay back the indebtedness. The other 20% of the increment goes to the city's General Fund and the other taxing entities. And what it means is it would take a little longer to pay back the indebtedness then potentially. Norton/ Franklin/ Norton/School board and others would get a piece? Franklin/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 3 Lehman/Seems to me pay me now, pay me later .... Kubby/But it allows those other entities as well as our General Fund to have a little bit. Lehman/Bottom line, it comes out the same .... Kubby/ Franklin/David was at the meeting .... my understanding is that the taxing entities, sure they would like to have the tax revenue fight away but they also understand the long term benefit of this and being able to use the TIF for incentives .... Baker/20 years. Lehman/Stop it sooner if we need it. Norton/You can stop it earlier, all fight. Franklin/Okay. Kubby/Is there potential in this plan to use TIF money to pay back the rate payers for sewer and water line? Or is it only for road and storm water management? Franklin/You could, I don't know if you would feel it though as a rate payer because what you would have to do- For the amounts that we are talking about .... when you figure spreading that out over all the rate payers .... You would take that amount as going to reduce debt on the sewer project and on the water project. Baker/ Franklin/It is the city wide rate payers that we are talking about. Kubby/ Franklin/ Schoon/You are asking ifTIF revenues could be used- If the city is picking up those tap on fees, can TIF revenues be used to pay the city back for picking up those tap on fees is what you are asking. And yes we could. Franklin/Yes ....the rate payers wouldn't feel it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 4 Nov/...nobody would notice it. Franklin/ .....You could. Kubby/ Norton/It would certainly be noticeable accumulative, yeah. Kubby/ Franklin/We can decide that, Karen, at the time we certify our indebtedness, the first time. Then we decide all those things we want to certify at that point in time which can be the cost of setting up the TIF, it could be those water and sewer fees .... if we decided if we wanted to pay ourselves back. Norton/Those things all have to spelled out. Franklin/At the time we certify the indebtedness, yes. Kubby/Do those things have to be at least generally mentioned within the Urban Renewal Plan? .... Franklin/It says infrastructure. Kubby/And it only applies to commercial entities in the C1 zone that are kind of industrial in nature? .... Franklin/That is right. Norton/ b. Public hearing on a resolution amending the Comprehensive Plan to increase the density from 2-8 dwelling units per acre to 8-16 dwelling units per acre for an approximate 2.38 acre area located at the northeast comer of the intersection of Scott Boulevard and Lower West Branch Road. c. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by changing the use regulations from RS-5, Low Density Single-Family Residential, to OPDH-12, Planned Development Housing Overlay, for a 2.38 acre property located at the northeast comer of the intersection of Scott Boulevard and Lower West Branch Road to permit a 37 unit multi-family building for elderly housing. (REZ97-0002) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 5 Franklin/Next item is a p.h. on a resolution amending the Comp Plan to increase the density from 2 to 8 dwelling units to 8 to 16 dwelling units for about two acres at Scott Blvd. and Lower West Branch Road and I will combine that with item c. which is the p.h. on rezoning that particular property from RS-5 to OPDH-12. Nov/It is called 12 but it is actually putting in 16 units per acre. How does that happen? Franklin/Have you calculated out the density and that is what you got? Nov/Yes. 2.3 acres and 37 units .... 16 units per acre, Franklin/I would have to go back to what the calculation is per- probably in the 12 zone there is a variety of densities you cm~ have depending upon housing type and if you did the calculations,... could have up to 16 because we don't have any RM- 16. We have RM-12 and the next is RM-20 .... probably based on the square feet per unit .... Nov/We have to re-do those definitions. Lehman/ Franklin/ Thornberry/There was a protest. Franklin/...it was one person was outside the 200 feet and it wasn't anywhere close to the 20%. I have got a picture of the project and an overhead. You have seen the map from your packets .... (refers to overhead). The front elevation .... faces Scott Blvd. The rear elevation will face the residential development to the east ....car port... face Lower West Brach Road ..... Kubby/Will we need to be doing any improvements to Lower West Branch Road for this development? Franklin/Not for this project. In the long run we will need to .....it should not be a significant issue. Norton/Will they be doing any work at all? ..... Franklin/It is a chip seal or rolled oil road, rural cross section but it should be adequate for the traffic that would be generated by this particular development .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 6 Vanderhoef/I notice that we have a couple of objections .... because this is on our city property line, could we receive objections from the county? Franklin/We could .... people have been notified every 200 feet whether they are in the city or the county. Vanderhoef/So the county people were notified also? Franklin/Yes. The property owners to the north and to the east of this are Mr. Glasgow who sold this property to the developer .... Vanderhoef/Has the developer... will they accept Section 8 vouchers and certificates for elderly? Franklin/I don't know. They will be here tomorrow night .... Kubby/...It would be nice if they Would extend it to that .... Vanderhoef/ Baker/Can that be part of a conditional zoning? .... Norton/Can you tag that on? Nov/ Franklin/I am thinking about Larry's question. It is a hard one because is the decision to zone this to the OPDH-12 based on a desire to have diversity in income? Are you going to make that a requirement in a number of cases? .... Baker/Change in not only the zoning but the Comp Plan? Franklin/Yes. Baker/ Franklin/You could make the rational, I think ..... You would have to articulate it very clearly in terms of diversity and then be prepared in many situations to have that same condition imposed to get diversity .... Baker/Allow versus mandate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 7 Woito/ ....State law concerning CZA permits you to impose conditions which mitigate the things that occur by reason of the rezoning. Franklin/As opposed to being proactive to achieving some goal. Woito/I mean if it is because it is being rezoned and it is affecting, for example, the entry into the city or the view from Hwy 1 west or- Kubby/ Woito/There it was directly related to the conditions of the land. The conditions of the land were very moist and if they had a problem, which is a land use issue directly related. Franklin/But that didn't have anything to do with the price of housing. There was a condition in that that was specifically related to trying to target a certain income level. Woito/But that was agreed to by the developer. It was not- We could get the developer, Larry, to agree to anything that you wanted. But your question was whether we could mandate it. Baker/No. My question was as part of the CZA and the change in the COMP Plan that we would have some agreement from the developer that- Not mandate that he has to have X number of units here under Section 8 Housing but he couldn't preclude... It has to be available, to not reject people on Section 8 Housing or Housing Assistance. Franklin/That is mandating .... Baker/ Franklin/ Baker/ .... Part of the rational for a change in zoning in the Comp Plan is tradeoffs between developer and the city ....that wouldn't be allowable under the current zoning. Norton/We would have to set it up that we do it in every such instance .... Franklin/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 8 Kubby/In Walden Hills... rationales... density... lower cost housing ..... Woito/Certainly subject to negotiation. Baker/The developer will be here tomorrow night? Franklin/Yes. Thomberry/I don't think the developer should have to take Section 8 .... up to the developer whether he would want to accept them or not .... Franklin/I will talk to the developer before the meeting tomorrow night. It may not be a big deal. Norton/ Nov/Tomorrow is the p.h. Vanderhoef/Tell us where we are on the sewer capacity. Franklin/We did some flow checks on that sewer and it would be able to accommodate this development. Not a whole lot more .... Kubby/We don't have anything in the CIP to deal with that, do we? Franklin/The Scott Park Trunk .... in the fall when we do the budget and reconsider the CIP that we will bringing something to you to move that Scott Park Trunk as well as the Ralston Creek Branch that is south of there. Move those up, do them sooner. Norton/Anticipate development both east and north of this. Franklin/There is the issue of the Iowa City Care Center... development to east and south of here .... are that there is some interest in development .... So we are thinking about that already. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/We are maxed out on the line that runs north-south along Scott Blvd. from Rochester Hills .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 9 Vanderhoef/What capacity do we have north of Rochester in the First Avenue area where we will be putting in a road next year? Franklin/That is an entirely different sewer ....goes into the Northeast Trunk ....There are two different water sheds ..... Norton/Can you comment?... protest .... We the m~dersigned being owners of 20% but they are not. Franklin/That is a form that we use and they tried to get as many signatures as they can get... we take them and do a calculation and see and it is not even close. Norton/How many do we actually have? Franklin/We have two formal protests, one of them is outside the 200 feet... so it doesn't count in the 20% ..... Thornberry/Do you know why John and Mary Lepic were protesting? Franklin/From reading the P/Z Commission minutes, it is my understanding that they bought their house anticipating RS-5 around them and don't want to change .... Nov/Okay .... d. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," to provide elderly housing altematives. (First consideration) Franklin/First consideration of the elder housing alternatives. Kubby/We were going to talk a little bit about the tandem parking. Do people still want to talk about that? I don't like tandem parking. I think it is going to cause problems in the neighborhood surrounding it and for the tenants. There was two places where there was tandem parking and one I didn't have as big of problem ..... I think it is going to cause a conflict within the house and maybe some conflict with the neighborhood. Franklin/You can have tandem parking by what is written here in the elder family home .... elder congregate housing .... as appropriate. Remember, these go as special exceptions in RS-8 and RS-12. So we will be looking at the layout of each one as it comes in and that is only when there is a requirement for eight or fewer parking spaces ..... reason... less paving .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 10 Thomberry/On the elderly housing houses that were being proposed by Jim O'Brien, they could do that but then you would have garages on both back and front of the structure. Whereas with tandem parking, they would only be on the back. Is that correct? Franklin/I don't now what he is designing. Thomberry/I would rather have tandem parking than a garage, for example, for every car .... Nov/ Kubby/There are tradeoffs .... Norton/ Nov/ Franklin/So we leave it as is? Nov/Yes. Franklin/Okay. e. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by changing the use regulations on a 3.74 acre tract located on Mall Drive from Community Commercial (CC-2) to General Industrial (I-1). (REZ97-0001) (Second consideration) Franklin/Second consideration on a rezoning on Mall Drive for CC-2 to I-1. Lehman/Expedite. Franklin/If you want. Nov/I think there is no harm in doing it. Franklin/Okay. f. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article N, entitled "Off-Street Parking and Loading," Section 1, entitled "Off-Street Parking Requirements," to allow existing fraternity/sorority houses to be converted to rooming houses without having to provide additional parking. (Second consideration) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 11 Franklin/The conversion of fraternity and sorority houses to rooming house and you received a memo from us about interpretation of the Code. Kubby/Will you update us at our meeting tomorrow night? Franklin/Yes, I can do that tomorrow night. I don't know really right now how it will come out. Nov/I heard today...conversion of numbers... conversion of the use could be happening if there 16 people in it instead of 21? Franklin/No .... I don't know where 16 people, that number comes from. The conversion possibility relates to how we calculate the parking for rooming houses. Nov/And it has nothing to do with the number of occupants? Franklin/Yes, it always has something to do with the number of occupants .... The Code says that you require parking for rooming houses based upon the lot area. However, you derive the occupancy, the number of people that can live there by the lot area and then the floor area is determined- Nov/Is it the lot area or living space area? Franklin/To determine the number of occupants in a rooming house, you determine the square footage of a house that can be used for rooming house use which may be less than what is physically there .... 716 N. Dubuque. By the Zoning Ordinance, you can only use 2,125 square feet for rooming house in that whole building ..... you divide by 100 because you need 100 square feet per person to get the number of people that can live there in a rooming house... 21 people in that building. The building is 7200 square feet. We calculated the parking based on the building because the parking provisions of the Code say that it is parking spaces per 100 square feet of floor area, not floor area you are going to use for rooming ..... Parking is correlated to floor area, not to occupancy which doesn't seem to be rational .... Norton/Number of roomers is being controlled by this existing rule about lot size and its relation to the number of roomers .... parking is being ruled by some different feature .... mild inconsistency. Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 12 Norton/...derived from the lot size ....number of roomers is being controlled decently but the parking is not being .... Franklin/Issue before you is really whether a conversion from fraternities and sororities to rooming house is going to make a difference practically speaking in the parking .... Kubby/Did P/Z agree with staff?.... use is so similar in terms of density... wouldn't warrant special exception process? Franklin/Yes .... issue of parking... not going to have an appreciable affect on the parking in terms of increasing it... may decrease... demand .... Also felt that there was no criteria being discussed for the special exception other than parking ....didn't see the necessity of going through the special exception process. Nov/We still have an alignment of fraternities, sororities, rooming house in terms of parking on the pending list for P/Z? Franklin/To make those the same, yes ..... So tomorrow night you may either do second consideration or you can defer ..... g. Consider an ordinance vacating the portion of the alley located south of Lot 2 of the A.E. Strohm Addition, generally located south of Bowery Street between Governor and Lucas Streets. (VAC97-0001) (Pass and adopt) Franklin/Pass and adopt on the alley off.... Governor and Lucas south of Bowery. h. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," City Code, by revising Article N, entitled Off-Street Parking and Loading," to change the required number of off-street parking spaces for commercial uses in the CB-5 zone. (Pass and adopt) Franklin/Pass and adopt on the requirement for off-street parking in CB-5 zone. i. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, "Unified Development Code" of the City Code by amending Chapter 9, Article A, entitled "Parking Facility Impact Fee" to exclude commercial development. (Pass and adopt) Franklin/Pass and adopt on excluding commercial development from the parking facility impact fee. And we will be talking about multi-family residential later on tonight. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 13 j. Consider a resolution approving the final plat of Walden Hills, a 40.7 acre, 53-1ot residential subdivision located on the north side of Rohret Road, east of Highway 218. (SUB97-0010) Franklin/I would ask you to defer that. We still have issues with the legal papers and construction plans. Norton/ Kubby/ Franklin/To May 20. k. Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of the Scott-Six Industrial Park, a 140.5 acre, 42-1ot commercial/industrial subdivision located on the east side of Scott Boulevard, north of Highway 6. (SUB96-0020) Franklin/To consider the resolution approving the preliminary plat of Scott Six Industrial Park. The issue which is outstanding on that plat is the design of Freedom Court. (Refers to overhead-plat map). The design that is shown here is what the developer prefers which is the loop street on Freedom Court. Our position has been .... where that northerly access point comes out on Scott is too close to the intersection with Heinz given the fact that Scott is an arterial and we have commercial development occurring here to the east of Scott and industrial development... to west of Scott. Nov/And they do have another Scott Blvd. exit further south? Franklin/That is a street. Kubby/What is the access for those four lots in-between? _ Franklin/There is one access point for those four lots and that is agreed to, a frontage road .... Nov/In total, how many access points to Scott? Franklin/On this drawing, four. Two on Freedom Court and one for the four lots and one for Liberty Drive. Norton/...curb cut already there? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 14 Franklin/No ....(refers to map). Norton/ Franklin/Okay, we have suggested here is a couple of possibilities and I would have to say my preference is for the one on the right as an alternative ..... Freedom Court being viewed as probably a private drive and that what you are doing is entering a small commercial area which could have an identity of its own .... depending on a design... Freedom Court does not appear to be so much a road as an entrance to a commercial area with some common parking .... good visibility .... Nov/And this could accommodate as many lots that are drawn on that loop concept .... Thornberry/It would be very difficult to get to two lots north and two lots south. Nov/ Franklin/Not if you view this- An example... larger scale .... Menards .... This I see as a much smaller scale... entrance signage to it ....Where it is a very appealing and attractive and easy to get to place .... Lehman/How do you get service vehicles to those lots? ..... Franklin/Go into Freedom Court .... like a shopping center ....The places that are not bubbled in shared parking ..... (refers to map) .... Kubby/I don't mind a fourth access if it is directly across from Heinz Road .... And I like the T versus the cul de sac ..... Norton/P/Z seemed very determined about that... I agree .... Franklin/Lining up with Heinz Road is very problematic .... Kubby/...let the developer choose the form that works best .... Vanderhoef/Less road to keep up with the T design than the circle design. Nov/Depend on how many lots. Norton/ Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 15 Lehman/What we are saying is we do not an access that is offset from Heinz Road. Vanderhoef/That is the bottom line. Lehman/ Nov/The southerly access is certainly acceptable. The cul de sac sounded nice .... Norton/How far is this center on the right? ....from Heinz Road? Franklin/This is probably about 300 feet which is about a block. Norton/There is another entrance to ACT?... How do we line up with that? ..... Franklin/It is right down there (refers to map). Norton/Okay. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/ Franklin/This is commercial in here (refers to map). Norton/Is there any other access on the left between Heinz and ACT entrance? ..... Franklin/Yeah, there are some driveways (refers to map) ..... Old Pelling lot .... Norton/ Franklin/It is different when you have an offset across .... Heinz Road is a road that has semi traffic coming out of it ..... assuming this is a successful commercial area... Then you have got that coming out as well as the industrial traffic ..... Norton/ Franklin/There may be individual users in there that have maybe one more drive that is there than now .... Vanderhoef/In the Lon Drake report there was one place that he talked about swinging the creek alignment up near Scott Blvd. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 16 Franklin/Yes which we decided against (refers to map) and we had a conversation with Lon after he did that report ....(refers to map) ....takes away those commercial lots entirely and that wasn't going to be acceptable ....I have got the full drawing for you. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-72 SIDE 2 Council/(All talking). Franklin/(Refers to drawing). This is the storm water detention basin .... These are sandbar willows... contain erosion... Have to come to final conclusion before the final plat on plantings... close on that .... try to get this to work .... One of the issues that Lon raised in his report of the erosion.. something that we have to be attentive to .... Work with Amy Buska too to see what work she can do in the county with some development in the county. This is all in our growth area .... in time we will have control of that and with urbanization of it, some of that, a lot of that erosion will be diminished but it has to which a stabilized state before that happens. Kubby/The other concem is the sewage lagoons. That is a large capital project .... But is there is a problem, they need to fix that .... take that to DNR. Franklin/We have already contacted them .... they said that those lagoons and the plant are functioning properly. Nov/Who owns those lagoons? Franklin/The lagoons are owned by Sunrise Mobile Home Park. Nov/And DNR actually went there and checked in out? They didn't just read a piece of paper? Franklin/I don't know what they did, Naomi. Kubby/A couple of us could certainly call them and meet them out there. Franklin/To resolve that problem... that would need to come onto the municipal system and that would mean annexation of the mobile home park .... Nov/Can we check this with the Department of Public Health? .... Franklin/We can inquire with the Department of Public Health. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 17 Nov/ Council/(All talking). Franklin/We will have the sewer capacity to service with the project that is coming through here. The trunk line is going to go just under the tracks ....It is the issue of hooking all of these folks up to municipal sewer .... Norton/Or some way of preparing for that eventuality. Nov/Where is the nursing home? They have their own lagoon problems. Franklin/That is the Scott Park Tnmk that I was speaking of earlier that we need to move up on in CIP. Nov/ Kubby/I have some questions about the plat. I agree with the part of the CZA that allows the letter of credit... infrastructure that aren't going to be put in right away... Then how do you okay a plat that doesn't have the streets? ..... Franklin/The plat sets out where the streets will be and you cannot get a building permit to put up a building, you can't sell a lot until you do a final plat .... legal papers that will specify any conditions that we will have put there in terms of the letter of credit. That will all be spelled out in the subdivider's agreement .... You can't get a building permit until you have that street improved ....before you can proceed with an actual development project .... Kubby/ Franklin/If the placement of the street changes appreciably, we will be coming back with a revised plat .... a revised plat is a much shorter process .... Norton/Are there some disagreements with the sewer thing along 420th or are we straight about that? Franklin/No, we are okay. The only outstanding issue was Freedom Court .... Kubby/What about the Sensitive Areas Plan? Has that been approved? Franklin/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 18 Kubby/Are we going to allow that .... developer to have the choice? Thornberry/I would like to hear from Mr. Streb or Mr. Downer... which they would prefer and why .... Would you approve of that T intersection? Robert Downer/I don't know that we are in a position to answer that right at this moment. We will certainly be prepared to address it tomorrow night. The developer's feeling continues to be a strong preference for the lay out that is on the plan. We don't feel that the problems that have been indicated are going to be present from that. We feel that there is a sufficient offset there and also that the number of vehicles that are going to be using this ..... I don't think it is of such numbers .... Tomorrow night we will be prepared to address this. Thomberry/You would have the measurement between that entry exit on to or off of Scott Blvd. and Heinz Road .... Nov/We just got that. Thornberry/And how many feet between that road and the RR tracks? And what is the distance between the two streets that you propose coming out to Scott Blvd.? (Refers to map). Downeft .... 364 roughly. Kubby/There is strong sentiment tonight to not do that .... Nov/Think about... if the T design would cause problems .... Downer/One thing... remember... while there are not the problems with that design that are present with attempting to line the Freedom Court and Heinz Road together. There is a reduction by several lots in the number that can be sold .... You are not taking the square footage out to the same degree but the number of lots would be reduced .... Nov/When I looked at that... extending the arms of the street .... Downeft .... less there is for development. Nov/I don't see the difference in the square feet of street. Thomberry/(Refers to map) .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 19 Downeft We will certainly look at these things. Thomberry/ Lehman/These are things that Mr. Streb can work on .... Kubby/If there are two accesses, the north one has to be across from Heinz Road or a one access with the configuration of the developer's choice .... Nov/I really don't like the Heinz Road alignment .... Kubby/That is his choice. Downeft... That will not be a part of the plan. I can assure you that .... Thomberry/ Kubby/ Thomberry/I would like to .... compliment both parties, the staff and the developer, on getting together and changing what was 1000% industrial land to accommodate retail space .... staff has gone a long ways from their original set position. Downeft Nov/Can we move on? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 20 CDBG Funding Allocation 97-72 S2 Nov/Has anything changed since the last time we saw this? .... Maurice Head/There have not been any adjustments. As you know tomorrow you will be approving the annual action plan and that document is part of the consolidated plan that will go to HUD .... by May 15 deadline. Nov/Have you had an audit for Candleworks? Head/We have been pursuing an audit for Candleworks. We went out to bid a few weeks ago and received no bids to do an audit. Our next step was to do a one on one contacting auditing firms and sitting down with them and trying to get some interest in doing the audit for us. We did meet with an auditing firm on Friday .... to talk about the questions that we needed to be answered to understand the financial position of the company. It looks like we are in a negotiated state at this point .... The company is going to interview Heartland this week... They will contact us... work out details of doing an audit. Nov/And you are planning on holding money in reserve until then? Head/Correct. No money will be dispersed to the company until questions are answered that satisfy the HCDC as well as the city council regarding the position of the company. Nov/Thank you. Thornberry/What does an audit cost for something like that? Head/Generally these audits are done on a more long term basis, 3 to 5 years. Most of the cost is up front in the first year ....estimates were rather high in the $5,000 to $10,000 range .... Thornberry/What that the reason why the others were not interested? .... Head/Primarily the reason the other companies were not interested was one, it was at the end of the tax season .... too busy. Second reason is that companies to like to have a longer term contract for 3 to 5 years as to a one year audit ..... Talked to Heartland about having a longer audit period ....trying to work through that as well .... Vanderhoef/Given the fact that Heartland may get the CDBG money .... they must have an annual audit. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 21 Head/An audit is required when any sub-recipient receives more that $25,000 a year. Vanderhoef/It will be on-going ..... Head/Absolutely. Vanderhoef/Thank you. Nov/Any other questions... on any CDBG allocation? Head/We did include a memo to you .... that is in your packet. Thomberry/If we don't like one of two of the items in the money disbursements .... Do we vote against it? Norton/Amend the resolution, I guess. Kubby/I think we should talk about those things .... Nov/We should do that. Kubby/...raise concerns so they can talk to us about it. Thornberry/I have a problem with acquisition of land for GICHF. Nov/Why do you have a problem with that one and not some other ones? Thomberry/ .... I understand fees in lieu of taxes but it doesn't come close to what the taxes would be. Kubby/So you don't want any non-profit to own property that houses people? Thornberry/Basically that is correct .... I fully support helping them with their rental assistance. Housing assistance is a different story ..... Kubby/Housing Fellowship then rents to their clients. Thornberry/Any properties that receive funds .... should be in Iowa City .... should be on the property tax rolls .... And the more and more and more land that we take off of the tax rolls, the more it falls on the tax payers to pick up the difference. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 22 Norton/But the question of enough housing ..... If they went off the tax exemption .... then wouldn't you simply have to .... put more money in... to cover their taxes .... Thomberry/No, I think we should provide jobs so that these people can afford .... There is no free lunch except if you are getting all government subsidies... I think the fewer free lunches there are, the better .... I would support on a temporary basis helping people out with rental payments to keep a roof over their heads .... Kubby/ Norton/ ....There is still a big waiting list for Section 8 Housing. Thomberry/ .... I approve of helping people with a roof, not necessary a house. Nov/I understand your point .... This group is providing low cost rental housing ....shelter, not ownership .... Thomberry/They pay a fee in lieu of taxes but they don't really have to .... Franklin/Sounds like there is a basic ideological difference here that is not going to get resolved here. Kubby/Does that mean you all support River City Housing Collective? They pay full property taxes. Thornberry/I probably will not. But we will talk about that when we get to that one. Lehman/Naomi... I think this is kind of the 1 lth hour... I am not really sure... that we change the rules now. I think we need to look at the whole housing picture sometime during the next year .... I think we need to understand... I would like to see a detailed report of how the moneys are being spent, how much subsidy is actually going to renters and whatever .... Kubby/A lot of concerns... with River City Housing... apply to all of the organizations that provide housing .... If we have things we want to do differently with our CDBG and HOME funds, then we need to decide what those things are up front .... We don't change them after the process has already started and target one of two organizations. Norton/ Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 23 Norton/ .... November '95 we had a big work session on housing. We need to follow that up.... Lehman/I don't think this is going to be decided or discussed at this late date .... Thomberry/ .... I don't believe that this is the first time you have heard this from me .... Kubby/We don't have four people who say the city is going to be out of the housing business directly or indirectly. We do not have four people to discuss that issue. Lehman/I think we probably have four people who would like to know how our Housing Program work .... Norton/We see enough paperwork about it .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/...difference if we were looking at GICHF and their grants and loans .... money is cycling back in versus a 1% loan to River City... large discrepancy .... If that percentage changes... keeping the rents in the below fair market may be impossible to do .... If the loan were at the 6 to 8%, it would not be a possibility to buy it and finance it .... Norton/ Council/(All talking). Thomberry/...probably shouldn't change at the last minute... but we do that with Aid to Agencies every year .... Kubby/But we don't change a policy .... Thomberry/ Kubby/But the rationale for not doing that is not based on a new rule that is given only to that organization. Thornberry/I understand ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 24 Vanderhoef/...I have a philosophy that seems to be a little bit different .... has to do with whether to put more money towards job training programs .... I would like more discussion about job training kinds of activity for our next year's budget. Kubby/A shift .... Ralston Creek.. then housing stuff and now evolution into jobs and economic development issues .... Vanderhoef/I want to explore that some more. Norton/That is also the federal direction. Nov/Any other questions? Baker/Are we through with Greater Housing? Nov/I think we are. Baker/(Can't hear). Nov/Can you closer so you are heard on the tape recorder? Baker/ I have outlined my primary objections to that funding .... changing the rules at the last minute... I would argue that we are not changing the rules. We are just clarifying the policy that has already been in affect. That indeed, if you look at people getting housing assistance, we have consistently given it to elderly, disabled, families, families with children and that the waiting list for Section 8 Housing is primarily that group of people. All we are doing with the discussion of River City is to say that... if this group had applied as individuals, they would be very far down on the list for financial assistance .... As a group that they would be getting assistance that would not have gone for as individuals .... Kubby/Then I go back to the City Step document though where one of the objectives is to expand the number of units of affordable rental units and study the feasibility of single room occupancy housing .... and to pursue and it is a big priority for households under 30% of median income many of which are which River Housing .... I would say that we do have that a part of our plan... big priority .... I would just disagree with your point .... Baker/ We also have decision made...financial assistance... clearly have priorities to the type of people that get assistance and the River City Housing would be a very low priority to the kind of population it serves. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 25 Kubby/It is a very big priority in terms of HCDC ..... Nov/Still they said only 30% of their population are no-students .... Council/(All talking). Norton/Seems to me by definition, every student is low income .... no visible means of support .... I would kind of agree with Larry .... some individuals in that situation are households... Kubby/As welfare reform progresses... people are going to be choosing educational... students.. Are we going to deny people who are students .... That is going to be an issue that we have to deal with. Vanderhoef/It sounds like we have enough differences of opinion here that perhaps we should pull River City Housing out for a separate vote tomorrow. Thomberry/I think that might not be a bad idea. Nov/I heard one more suggestion to increase the interest on the loan. Is this something you can do at the last minute? Franklin/Yes. Norton/That is an interesting consideration. Kubby/Instead of making an assumption... ask some questions about at what point does it become a non-feasible project for their organization, what percentage? Nov/1% sound like a very low interest rate. Maybe 8% is too much. Maybe 4% is reasonable. Kubby/Many people asking for grant... We give 0% loan in some cases .... Nov/We do that with a service organization rather than housing .... Baker/The loan interest rate is not an issue. Nov/I understand... I thought it might be worth asking. Norton/We do have to deal.. with returning students .... May need to look at age questions and previous conditions .... Maybe more questions. I am thinking about it very This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 26 hard because I do think we might have higher priorities than that particular group. That is my present feeling. Nov/Okay, would staff be willing to ask a question about interest rates for the Housing Collective? We are having another p.h. tomorrow. We could just get them to say something tomorrow. We are not having public discussion tonight. Franklin/Are you making a suggested amendment to the budget at this point? Vanderhoef/Not to the budget, just to the allocation. Franklin/Tomorrow night is your p.h.. We need to get this action plan to HUD by May 15. So you will be making amendments in the floor tomorrow night if you decide to? Nov/If we amend, yeah. Franklin/Okay. Nov/Tomorrow night is the time when River City or anyone else can suggest .... Franklin/So you can amend the budget tomorrow night and you can pull out River City to vote separately tomorrow night for the floor. Nov/Or we can change something tomorrow night ..... Woito/Karen needs to clarify a question about her membership in the Coop. You are not a member of the cooper, correct? Kubby/I do not live at River City Housing Coop and the membership that I paid goes to a national organization, not River City .... Thornberry/ Kubby/A life member of a national organization. Thomberry/That doesn't give you squat, does it? Woito/It was my first impression that Karen was a life time member of this coop. But that is not the case. So I do not see a conflict. Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 27 Woito/We handle these on a case by case basis .... Kubby/I just wanted to thank River City and the Committee and other applicants for being here tonight .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 28 PIN Grant Video - Completed Projects 97-72 S2 Nov/The video is really five minutes, isn't it? Marcia Klingaman/Maybe six... this is every quick .... Quick introduction in terms of what you are going to be seeing tonight. In a couple of weeks you are going to be reviewing the 1998 Program for Improving Neighborhood Grants that the Neighborhood Council has been reviewing for the last couple of months .... Video that highlights the projects that were approved in 1996 ..... Nov/Turn it in. Klingaman/...broadcast on Government Access. (Presents 1996 PIN Grant Video). CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-73 SIDE 1 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 29 West High Signal 97-73 S1 Nov/Okay Let's move on. Atkins/I enclosed in your packet a copy of the news article that confirmed the fact that the School Board voted... unanimously to authorize a payment of $9,300 as a share of the cost of the traffic signal at West High and Melrose... number derived from work that we had done as staff.... cost associated with putting up the temporary signals and that which we cannot recover. We had to .have power brought in... wire strung .... that is what they have indicated they would pay. Naomi and I met with the School Board President and School Superintendent... Naomi asked that this be put on the agenda for confirmation from the Council and/or other direction. That is it. Kubby/I would prefer .... $25,000 for the permanent light even though now that cost may be higher .... I would certainly accept the $9300 .... We asked money... for half of the permanent light. Lehman/... I thought this was for the temporary .... Atkins/The $9300 was the temporary. Lehman/There will be another $25,000? Atkins/Oh, no. They will pay $9300, period. Thomberry/What happened to the $20,000? Atkins/If you read their letter .... $25,000 the District would inform the City they are not interested in participating in .....Since the signal is warranted... now your responsibility. Lehman/...forget it. Atkins/We have ordered lots of new equipment. Council/ Atkins/The total cost of a temporary installation ....approximately $20,000. Norton/ Atkins/They have not paid anything .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 30 Norton/ ....proposing $9300 which would be roughly half of the temporary installation. Nov/I thought that was the entire temporary installation, the $9,000. Atkins/No, when you put in the signal there are costs that you can recover ....This $9300 is the cost that we cannot recover; It is gone .... Baker/Let's just leave the temporary in. Norton/I thought there was another letter ....later letter that was somewhat more conciliatory. Nov/ ....saying since it isn't warranted, we will help pay for it. Then it became warrants .... Lehman/ Baker/ Council/ Norton/It is the city's responsibility to take care of lights... I think we ought to just take their money and run .... It is unfortunate that they can't see their way to do more .... city runs the streets and they run the schools. Kubby/I want it somewhere noted by the public that this was an example of cooperation .... we were cooperating in a much more skewed fashion ..... Atkins/Do I hear the majority saying the $9,300 is acceptable? Council/ Norton/We won't turn it down. Norton/Marginally acceptable .... Baker/We accept it ....look forward to the next check. Atkins/I will take as a yes. Next item. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 31 First Avenue Improvements Project 97-73 S1 Nov/First Avenue Improvements. Jeff, is that yours? Baker/Is this really going to take 30 minutes? Nov/ Atkins/It shouldn't take 30 minutes. Thomberry/ Rob Winstead/(Refers to project map) .... paving part of the project .... we have got about a mile of storm sewer that goes along .... I believe the information I sent out to residents was in your packet .... It is a three lane design to the north. We have got the right turn lanes at Muscatine, eight foot sidewalks on the east side and four foot on the west side .... relocating the utility poles .... have to either cut down or transplants some city trees on that side... trimming of some part of property trees .... Kubby/Are those ornamentals? Winstead/Large ash tree that has less than five years left, two large walnut trees (refers to map) and there are some smaller ones... transplant .... Council/(All talking). Kubby/There are too many conversations going on. Winstead/Question was there are places where sidewalk is fight on the back of the street. Up here it is because we don't have r.o.w. and we have got a turn lane... down here it is the block (refers to map). Lehman/Because of the proximity to the school, is there anyway of trying to restrict jaywalking across here?...some sort of a railing. Fosse/It has not been much of a problem in this area .... (refers to map). Nov/ Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 32 Winstead/(Refers to map). As far as easement acquisitions go, we are in pretty good shape. We have pretty much got it all worked out with these folks (refers to map). We are having a little bit of difficulty with the company who owns the easement rights for the railroad .... progressing. We have set a condemnation date on the Kerr McGee site and it is sounds like it is more a question of timing than opposition of the project. They are a large company in Oklahoma and they came right out and said... they can't come close to meeting our schedule .... Thomberry/Is that the vacant one? Council/(All talking). Nov/The underground storage tank. Fosse/They should really pay us to take that land. Council/ Winstead/We need a little bit ofr.o.w. on Muscatine for that turn land and sidewalk. Woito/We did assume some responsibility for what we take .... Winstead/We have to dig a little deeper than for sidewalks because we have got a little storm sewers... Thomberry/Do you know where those tanks are located on that property? Winstead/No, they have been in there and put a new monitoring well recently. Thornberry/ Winstead/(Refers to map). Lehman/We will not be leaving contaminates under that trunk sewer, will we?.. they are not going to have to tear out the storm sewer to dig out contaminated soil from underneath it? Fosse/That is possible .... Woito/It has been monitored by the DNR for a long time... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 33 Fosse/Amazing aspects... only three blocks long but we got nearly one mile of storm sewer total ....It is allowing us to deal with a lot of complaints that we have been having .... Kubby/...discussion... making sure that Oral B property will be buffered by current trees from this neighborhood. Will some of that be torn out and not replaced? ..... What is the length? Winstead/We are going to remove just the minimal amount on the north side of the tracks that will let us get the storm sewer in the ground and grade a swail for the excess flow ..... Norton/ Winstead/ Norton/Those trees contribute to the buffering of Oral B even though they are on this side of the tracks .... Fosse/There are not many pines .... Kubby/...selectively taking it out .... Winstead/A lot of it will get taken out because we have got a 16 inch diameter pipe ..... We have positioned things to try and minimize .... (Refers to map). Council/(All talking). Fosse/There were two different projects in the CIP because these problems were haunting us and so this gives us the opportunity to do them both at once. Kubby/This is rip rap I am assuming? Winstead/Yes. Kubby/And that is the extent of the rip rap? Winstead/We have got a little bit around this guys garage to protect his foundation ..... Kubby/Is this rip rap all the way up to the top of the creek bank? Winstead/No, it will just be where the water normally flows .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 34 Fosse/...This pipe is sized to carry about the 5 to 10 year flood... rainstorms that exceed that amount still need to have an overland route to get over this ....We are going to put back an erosion control fabric and seed it.. decent channel... Norton/And you have talked to neighbors about this so there is some understanding? Winstead/Yeah, we have contacted them several times. Fosse/Two meetings. Winstead/A neighborhood pre-design meeting and several mailings including one in your packet... 110 went out. Only other thing that may come up... discontent about Second Avenue being the detour .... Kubby/My neighborhood felt the signs were not placed appropriately in terms of detour .... moot point since you are sending people down Second in this case .... Make sure the signs are up... really are clear as to what people are expected .... Winstead/We need to provide stop signs at these two intersections. Kubby/Should the neighborhood be thinking about a cross-guard temporarily here again? Winstead/I kind of think staying on the north side of First Avenue ....might be the best route. Vanderhoef/Will we always have at least one lane of traffic that you can get through that Bradford and First Avenue intersection to go south? Winstead/Yes .... Vanderhoef/So there is going to be a small period of time that intersection will be closed totally? Winstead/No (refers to map). You can always get through... we have to do it in three pieces .... Thomberry/ Winstead/(Refers to map) .... Norton/When do you figuring on starting? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 35 Winstead/We are looking at the middle of June and the map on the back kind of laid it out for them. Late July First Avenue will be open that whole time .... Kubby/ Winstead/This isn't federally funded... gain more freedoms in out contracts. We have got a six day work week .... We have got incentive pay .... interim damages .... Fosse/We are serious what kind of bids we are going to get on this because there is so much concrete work going on .... mall parking lot alone is 52 acres of paving .... We are curious who is going to be bidding on this .... Nov/Is there anyway you can bid several projects? .... Fosse/We are actually staggering them a little bit ..... Kubby/In terms of what we are doing along the stream, if this were a private developer wanting to do these improvements ..... Would this be allowed? Winstead/Yes... (refers to map). We don't really have anything in here that falls under our Sensitive Areas Ordinance .... We do want to clean those trees up and stabilize the bank. Nov/ Vanderhoef/May I ask the engineer another question while they are here... different subject... silt fences are not worth their salt and planting oats and rye... would be more effective ....I would like a second opinion on silt fences at some point in time. Fosse/ Sure .... If silt fences are not properly installed, the toe of them actually cut into the ground, they are ineffective because it runs underneath .... I have seen some of the contractors. They rent utility trenching machines... works very well. The oats and rye... weather dependent on getting that to germinate .... Kubby/With Julie around, she can see that the silt fencing is installed properly and make corrections. Norton/ Fosse/4 to 6 inches into the ground .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 36 Council/ Vanderhoef/Would you accept grains if they chose to do that? Fosse/Yeah, if it is the right time of year .... Vanderhoef/Thamk you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 37 RFP for Private Development on Parcel 64-1A 97-73 S1 Nov/Can we take five minutes, very short? Then go ahead .... David Schoon/In your council packet you have the prospectus that staff plans to use. Tommxow night on your council agenda you have a resolution authorizing the City Manager to solicit offers for the private re-development component of the project. In the prospectus... two issues we want you to give your confirmation on. The first has to do with the proposed uses we have listed in the prospectus...hotel space or upper end apartment/condominium units. Norton/Have you given up using offices there?... Schoon/Yes. Council/ Schoon/Given vacant space downtown .... private project that is out there, we didn't see the office use as viable at this point in time. The second issue has to deal with financial incentives. As outlined in the prospectus, the financial incentives that we would propose to use would be subsidizing the superstructure and foundation expense that would be required as part of building the public component to support additional space above. The other issue would be writing down the air right cost .....We have left it negotiable .....those are things that we would consider .... Lehman/ Schoon/These are the two issues we will consider ..... In this instance we are looking at writing down the air right expense or the added construction cost for providing the necessary support for the tower on top of the public component of this facility. Baker/Do you all mention land cost? ..... Vanderhoef/There are air costs. Baker/ Council/ Thomberry/ .... If the other proposal doesn't fly, can we still do the private development on 64-1A without the other project which would be the public project as slated now .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 38 Council/ Schoon/We would have to start the process again. Norton/Were TIFs and tax abatement rejected for obvious reasons? Schoon/In terms of the mechanism to establish those tools .... $1 million .... Nov/This is either or rather than both? The incentives. Vanderhoef/I noticed that you said specifically six stories of private development... talked about six or eight ....Is there a cost reason why we are not considering those two extra floors? Schoon/In terms of talking with Kevin... numbers that were included .... public component ..... foundation expense could support the six stories. If you want to add to support more, we are going to need to include that number in terms of the public referendum component of the facility. Kubby/I thought it was six to eight depending on the use. Nov/The eight would have been offices .... Vanderhoef/Is it clear that that might be negotiable? Kubby/But not if we are only saying apartments. Schoon/We have narrowed it to two uses and of those two uses- Vanderhoef/Hotel use... less heavy than apartments. Schoon/I asked Kevin, he said for these two proposed uses the foundation that they propose could handle six stories. Vanderhoef/ Baker/ Vanderhoeff They can offer the difference between what we have planned and we could negotiate the price of the additional .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 39 Kubby/...eight is as the same height of Holiday Inn. Schoon/So we can add some language that any additional floors that they would (can't hear). Thomberry/... different roof lines .... Council/ Kubby/I am having a problem saying that it is necessarily be high and apartments .... I would prefer to control it... owner occupied or specifying a limitation on the number of bedrooms like three as a maximum ..... Thomberry/I think we need to wait and see what comes back. Baker/There are certain things I want to rule out .... On page 9 where it says deluxe apartments and/or condominiums. I would like to personally rule out the apamnents. We can get apartments downtown anytime we want. Lehman/I agree with you that condos are preferred but I hate to rule out on the front end. Nov/Apartments have better tax value. Baker/Part of a goal here, as an improvement for downtown, some new core population .... I have no problem saying owner occupied condominiums as a goal, hotel as a goal. Kubby/Can we really control that? ..... condos can be rental. Thornberry/ Woito/I think it depends on how far you want to go in terms of this private public partnership. How much do you want to ring in the private developer? .... Council/(All talking). Kubby/ ....is illegal to say they must be owner occupied. Is that an option? Woito/It is an option but I don't know how- You are going to have to control. Baker/ ....the thing that will kill owner occupied housing is rental housing in the same project ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 40 Franklin/Won't the developer then choose to do that themselves if that is the case? Kubby/No, their primary purpose is going to be making money .... they may not be attached to some of the other values we are trying to implement with this project. Schoon/ Baker/...developers ....can't sell it if they are on the same floor. Schoon/ Franklin/What do you want from your perspective? Baker/My perspective... to foster a different kind of population downtown, long term permanent residents, professional and both empty nesters. Thomberry/You are seriously curtailing the number of people .... Lehman/...I think we do want a different population... I don't think we want to create what we have downtown right now in the way of apartment housing. They should be so nice that we will attract this different group of folks. Nov/Only if they are sound proof. Kubby/If you preclude rental .... corporate apartments... lease it to people who come for a period of time .... Council/(All talking). Lehman/ ....very fine rental units ....If planned properly, rental units like those. Franklin/If the goal is to get this other population .... if it is rental or owner occupied, if you get that other population, does it matter whether it is rental or owner occupied? .... articulate in the prospectus .... Baker/...Once you go beyond two bedrooms, you are opening up the door, you are opening the door .... Franklin/Older people .... you want to have three bedrooms .... that is a very common desire in older people. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 41 Baker/You know my concern... trying to attract a different population downtown .... should be discussed in the RFP somehow Franklin/Okay, more so than it is. I hear it being a goal. Thomberry/... I don't think we should necessarily restrict it so narrowly .... Baker/Let's direct the staff to try and figure out a way to make it happen. Norton/ Nov/I also think the suites hotel is a very good option .... Baker/ ....possible combination .... Franklin/We need to leave it open enough that we are going to get a pool of people bringing in proposals ..... Baker/Is August 15 a reasonable Kubby/I am concerned about that date, too .... I want us to have a discussion... tentative agreement early enough that people haven't already made up their minds emotionally about how to vote. Norton/Are you suggesting moving it up? Kubby/Yes. Is this the earliest feasible date? Franklin/We are trying to give people enough time to be able to respond intelligently .... 90 days is- Council/ Franklin/Once we get the responses back on August 15... at this end- Lehman/The important thing is the response to the RFPs .... We as a council can express our inclinations .... work the details out .... Thornberry/If there are none- Nov/That sends a message. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 42 Karr/Dee...15th is a Friday. You meet on the 25th and 26th. It gives staff enough time. Baker/Karin, can you talk about- After you do this tonight, you are going to send this out. Who is going to get it? How many people? Nationwide?... How are you going to do it push this? Schoon/We are in the process of coming up with a list. In terms of the apartment development, locally people will be aware of it... public notice. We will identify some additional developers in the state. We will also then have to come up with a list of hotel developers .... which I have started to do .... Thornberry/You don't use a marketing firm? Franklin/No ....We are going to put something out on the Net, too, that advertises it. Lehman/We know of one potential developer downtown wanting to build a hotel and there is another one .... Will those two folks also be- Franklin/Yes. Baker/ Franklin/The world. Council/(All talking). Nov/Okay. [Council Breakl This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 43 Stepping Up Project 97-73 S1 Nov/We should start. Julie Phye/I am the Coordinator of the Stepping Up Project which is a coalition of community and University members that are brought together to work on the issue of reducing binge drinking in the campus and in our community .... Dale and Naomi... on the coalition .... What I wanted to address you about this evening was the issue of how I anticipate the city council might be involved in the future. It has to do with... approach of trying to reduce binge drinking. It really is several pronged. We don't feel there is one cause .... It is a lot of the things in our society, culture and physical environment that support this notion that drinking in excess is cool, it is fun .... The coalition is trying to influence environmental change... that change in our physical environment as well as the attitudes that people have about their physical environment .... What we are looking at is trying to change out campus and our community so that is supports either a moderate use of alcohol or non-use .... in an environment where they feel like participating in activities... that our change will be long lasting... Looking at several approaches... Those include changes, re-evaluating, reassessing our policies .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-73 SIDE 2 Phye/That shapes how people and act, view their environment and act in their environment. So we re going to be looking at what do we have on paper already. How well is it working, how well is it enforced. Things might be wonderful, things might need some change. At this point in time we don't know and that is one of the primary areas where we are going to focus our attention initially, is on our policies ..... One of the issues is underage drinking .... underage college students .... obtain alcohol .... We are going to address that issue... reducing the number of students underage who are drinking ..... We are really trying to cause a shirr in the population of people who are over drinking.. problem drinking... It is about trying to shift that population distribution towards a more low risk moderate level of alcohol consumption. Kubby/ ....one of the things that seems to be really increasing is number of fake Ids. I wonder if that is something we can focus on .... Lehman/Do we have any legal control over that? .... State law? Kubby/ Baker/The severity of the penalty, do we have any control over that? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session Vanderhoef/ Kubby/ ....over $100. Thornberry/ ....Could that come under the forgery aspect? Woito/I don't know. I think much of it is controlled by state law... we can look into it .... Thornberry/ ....does that fall under state forgery law? Woito/I am not sure. I would have to look at it, Dean. Do you want to consider higher penalties possibly? Lehman/Can we do that? Woito/I don't know. I need to look at it. Nov/No, we cannot do that. However, the recent Legislature did increase the penalty for underage possession of liquor and underage possession of cigarettes ..... Baker/Can we limit the number of liquor license we issue for the city for downtown? Woito/No. You can do it by zoning. You can say you can't have a bar closer to X use by certain number of feet. Baker/On private property parties, does the city have the right to check Ids? Norton/...private parties, what control do we have ....some of them are pretty big scenes. Woito/If you are talking about the fiasco we had last week or so, there are other ways of dealing with it. That is an animal onto itself. Nov/I had two comments on that particular animal. In one case they said a student was selling drinks .... there were students with open containers on a public sidewalk... easy enforcement .... Lehman/ Baker/The goal ought to be that it doesn't start ..... Phye/It is very related .... page 44 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 45 Norton/ Phye/I am very glad we are not Boulder. I talked to those folks today and they are in quite a tailspin about what to do. This is the issue of the Riverfest Alternative Party and others like it is something the Stepping Up Committee really wants to address and work with city council... to look at ways we can reasonably curtail this kind of a problem before it ever starts .... private parties got bigger and bigger and bigger ..... I think it is going to take some work. Kubby/Will you get to the statistics ....How do you know all of this stuff about these people? Phye/ ....This information is gathered from mainly the Dean of Student's office... reports from the Iowa City Chief of Police and Chief of Public Safety from the University. These are the arrest records that they have for University students... six year trend .... note the number of students charged... arrested .... In light of the Harvard study... 64%.. participate in binge drinking .... 1/3 of those do it more than three times in a two week period... small fraction of those that are incurring some kind of consequence of the law .... It is a small number... there are a lot of second hand affects .... property damage, sexual assault, fights, vandalism... detriment to downtown area. Norton/The number that are charged or arrested much be a relatively small proportion to the number of people involved in these scenes? Phye/Exactly .... All three police chiefs from our area all said that you have to do something pretty outrageous in order to be arrested in the first place ..... The percent charged on campus property is very low... 12% .... A lot of these things...aren't happening on campus property though they are being committed by University of Iowa students. They are happening elsewhere in the community ...... negative consequences occurring for members of the Iowa City community and on Iowa City property .... Norton/... You see 1081 in the first row, 1266 down here. Phye/The 1081 doesn't include the traffic violations .... If you look on down further at the specific charges. Overwhelmingly, over 75% are alcohol related ..... many of the arrests and problems do involve alcohol as a component .... There is a narrowing in the gender gap in number of female students that are arrested .....The other place that a gender difference comes up is unwanted sexual advances .... alcohol as the #1 weapon against a woman for rape or some other type of unwanted sexual assault .... Several people have made the comment... arrests... fraternity and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 46 sorority members .... #1 predictor for whether a person was a binge drinker or not was membership in a Greek House .... As we start to look at things... address issue .... Kubby/ Phye/That is where a concentration of people living together .... not trying to bash the Greek system... We will definitely be looking at that as an area of concern. Norton/ Phye/... in the fraternities is where a lot of action is taking place .... Project 2000... two of our chapters here will be alcohol free by year 2000 .... National chapters are starting to put some more emphasis on rising insurance rates .... two fraternities here that will be involyed Project 2000 ....Sigma Nu and Phi Delta Theta .....does have higher percentage of arrest rate ....As restrictions go into affect for a certain Greek House, that alcohol cannot be allowed in a house, it is sort of like a balloon affect .... increase of parties at rented rooms and motels in Coralville... There is not one problem and one solution .... Once Greek Houses start going dry, kegs are going to be moved someone else. It is not a cut and dry solution to this problem .... At the University .... enforcing their policies as well ..... preventing future large parties that get out of control .... local control of what you can do as a city council... suspension for liquor licenses ..... All of those issues will be addressed and I am sure you will be heating more about them later from Naomi, Dale and from myself. .... Vanderhoef/I just wasn't real clear what we were measuring on these arrest rates after we got past the front page. Are these all- Phye/They are based on the percentage of all of our students which is roughly about 28,000 students. Norton/What is the cohort thing? Phye/Cohort arrest rate. For instance the undergraduate arrest rate, 5.5% of all of our undergraduates were arrested duri'ng 1995-96. Cohort arrest rate is the way to measure students based on the year .... 1991 is a cohort, 1992 is a cohort ....I tend to look at it over time .... Nov/1993-94 was the peak... going downhill. Phye/I don't know what contributed to that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 47 Norton/ Nov/Was that the year that somebody died? Phye/It was in the fall of '95 that Matthew Garfarlio died .... Vanderhoef/Go to the next pages, the percentages there...Burge Hall, 6.5% of all the students of the University and then when they go to the sorority and fraternity it is the same thing .... It is for any of the things that are listed on page 17 Phye/Let me clarify the social sorority arrest rates, 15% for Alpha Chi Omega- of their members. Vanderhoef/We don't know what the arrest was for. Phye/No, we do not .... Vanderhoef/...hard to sort out what we are talking about ..... Phye/It would be those charges that are listed there. Those things make up that 15% but I don't have a breakdown of the 15% ..... I could get those if you would like. Vanderhoef/The thing that would be most interesting to me is collectively the alcohol. Phye/A majority of them are alcohol related. Vanderhoef/There is not way to know. Phye/I would be happy to get you that. Lehman/What value is that going to be? Obviously what you are interested in is what we can do to help .... Whether they were fraternity, sorority or town's kids really is probably not relevant. What we can do is relevant .....I think we need suggestions from you. Nov/I think that is what the steering committee is going to get to eventually. Phye/We are just in the process of meeting for the first few times ....whole steering committee had their first meeting last week on the 24th ....We will be starting to formulate more ways that the City Council could help .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session Lehman/ Kubby/Good foundation .... Norton/If a particular fraternity gets into problems with a big party, is there anything the University can do? Phye/Yeah, there are educational sanctions... impose a moratorium on the fraternity .... take away several of their benefits of being a recognized student organization .... Kubby/We can talk to the national chapter and local alumni. Nov/ page 48 Phye/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 49 Multi-Family Residential Parking Requirements and Impact Fees 97-73 S2 Nov/ Franklin/This is about parking facility impact fees and parking requirements for multi- family residential parking in the Near South Side. We had a session in January... memo .... What I need to know is whether you wish to go forward with this proposal or some variation thereof to make a change. One correction on the example in the last page where I contrasted existing regulations versus the proposal and the possible outcome of the proposal would be 16 parking spaces on site, period. Not 16 to 28... 4th page .... The proposal here is to address just the parking in the CB-5 zone, not in the PRM zone... You wanted to distinguish between the two and so what this proposal does is it increases the parking requirements and increases the amount that has to be covered by an impact fee. The amount of the fee, the rate, stays the same for PRM and CB-5 ..... So I would suggest... that you leave that rate the same and work with the things within the Zoning Ordinance and how much you would require for an impact fee .... if you want to make a change .... See if there are four people who wish to make a change? Council/(Can't hear). Franklin/Larry, Dee, Ernie, Dee. Okay. Norton/I like the proposal 75 required and 25 provided. Franklin/Are there four people who like this proposal? Nov/Idea of requiring higher numbers in CB-5 than in PRM .... Franklin/The rational is only in your trying to discourage people from building residential in that Court to Burlington... do it though this .... disincentive .... or you can do something specifically addressed to the uses .... My understanding was you wanted to address this issue through the parking and through the impact fee. Baker/ .... I would glad to discourage parking presence from that area.. If it is there, it ought to be paying a more appropriate share of the cost ....the prior figure did not get close to what the impact was by the developer .... Norton/ Baker/This last page recommendation here .... it certainly gets to the second half of my concern was getting or more accurate return on the impact .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 50 Norton/I certainly want to discourage residential in that area .... Franklin/He is not messing with the fee, the rate. Baker/I am not changing the rate or the consistency between zones .... Thornberry/You want to discourage residential ..... What percentage of the land would you say is residential between Burlington and Court Street? Baker/ Thornberry/And it is bounded on the east and west by? Franklin/On the east by Gilbert Street and on the west by Clinton .... The two pieces you have for redevelopment.. Block 102... and the block that Northwestern Bell building is on in terms of redevelopment sites... It does extend down Gilbert... only place is the oriental market and south to the creek. Norton/What is the matter with the proposal that she has before us in changing the requirements? .... CB-5 .... Nov/Living in a PRM zone does not require less parking per bedroom. Norton/Just trying to focus on CB-5... and I think to increase the number of parking requirements to correspond to the bedrooms is surely rational there ....I think the 75/25 is a reasonable way to go. Kubby/I wouldn't mind saying that you have to pay 75% of the number of spaces required for an impact fee. If you choose to provide more parking on site...up to .... that is okay, to give some flexibility. Norton/I was figuring to do that in the PRM zone... provide more on site then lesser impact fee... Thomberry/We are only looking at three parcels now. Lehman/I think Dee is right. I don't think you want any more parking in that strip than you have to have ....to discourage residential in that area is going to be a detriment... Norton/Just making it more expensive .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 51 Nov/ Vanderhoef/If you look at the cost for a parking ramp, the fee is a reasonable fee ....It seems like a good deal for them if they need parking. Nov/ Franklin/There is not a provision to go to the Board of Adjustment. Only in CB-10. Nov/ Franklin/There is not that option, no. Thomberry/I am trying to balance this particular area of required parking to something .... rooming houses and converted fraternities where you are not giving any restrictions as to increasing parking or additional funds to convert a fraternity to a rooming house when you are changing a use .... It is the time when you could make a change .... A logical time to make a parking change... trying to eliminate parking between Burlington and Court Street but still not give adequate parking to current places where they are needed. Council/ Norton/ Thomberry/The one goal is more money and the other goal- Franklin/The one goal with the conversion is preservation of a building, frankly... to preserve those buildings .... with an estimation that the consequence is not going to be detrimental given the research that we have done. This is about the city taking on responsibility for parking to a degree but sharing that burden of parking with the private development. In the downtown we say it is our responsibility totally to provide parking. We do not want private entities to provide parking. We want them to develop the land to the maximum .... In this strip we are talking about a sharing of that parking responsibility .... now we are shifting it to financially being a little but more on the part of the developer but the city is going to provide the space .... obligation to build a parking facility. Thomberry/Bell-Breese...commercial below and apartments above .... Franklin/It is also analogous to industrial development... We have said often it takes longer for industrial development to happen but we want it to be in this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 52 community... we will have this land set aside for industrial development and it may take some more time. The analogy is that here we are saying we want a space, an opportunity for the downtown to grow and the only place that can go is south and we have designated this are, one block south of downtown, as where we want downtown to grow to .... commercially .... only way that is going to happen is through regulatory... incentives... disincentives... The only way we can have that happen and reserve that space for commercial development is to use these tools .... At some point it will happen... If we don't have these controls we know that the void will be filled by apartments .... And the one block that I think is critical and has been identified by the Downtown Strategy Committee is block 102 .... Norton/ Lehman/... this is creating a new demand ..... Norton/... we got to give it a little bit of time. Kubby/ Nov/We also have to remember... apartment builder... people who live in that apartment may still park on the street .... Lehman/We are just saying this is the fee. Franklin/I am hearing I think a majority to go with the CB-5 part. Nov/I am a little concemed about the proportions... overboard .... Franklin/ Nov/ Lehman/... there might not be room to even provide the 25% .... Council/ Nov/ Franklin/ .... if you look at some of the other developments that have taken place, 600 S. Capital which is in the PRM area, 32 provided on site was the requirement and that was all that was put on site. 315 College .... same developer... none required on site and no fee paid, 70 spaces were provided as underground parking .... 201 E. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 53 Burlington, I am not sure that that is an example of what would happen in all cases .... Lehman/We are also changing the requirements .... Nov/ Franklin/Sounds like there is one person who has problems with 75/25. Are there others? Baker/ ....What would be wrong of saying if they could pay for 100% of their 'parking...? Vanderhoef/It could end up being cheaper for the developer to pay the impact fee .... Kubby/If everyone did that, we may have to pay for four parking structures .... Baker/We are going to build one for sure .... Nov/ Franklin/It will have commercial space... they will put parking in for the commercial. Baker/ Franklin/You can put one space for 500 square feet for commercial. That is the maximum that you can put in that would be attributed for commercial development. Nov/ Franklin/ .... There is nothing required for commercial but they will probably provide some. Norton/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-74 SIDE 1 Franklin/25% on site is analogous to what you had before. You had to have 50% on site and 50% had to be paid for. You could have more but it was concern that the previous council had and P/Z Commission that there be some parking provided on site for residential because of the burden that it placed on the parking system. Remember, this has got to go back to the P/Z Commission for the parking requirement changes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 54 Baker/And I am just wondering if those 16 spaces on this proposal that would be required for residential .... which is if they could use, if they pay the impact fee for residential, that they could use the space available to increase their designated commercial parking .... Franklin/So does that mean go back and change the parking commercial requirement such that here is not a cap of one space per 500 square feet? Or you say that there is unless you don't put in residential. It gets complicated. Baker/ Still require that some of the space on site set aside for residential. We are using up that space in one requirement. The developer has to use it for that one requirement. It might make more sense for the developer to have the option to use that space to provide commercial space .... problem how you regulate it. Franklin/They will anyway. Norton/That also puts all the burden for their residential. Franklin/If you require the 16 spaces .... the 25% on site, you have nothing to guarantee that a resident is going to use that .... they will have the rent for their apartment plus X number of dollars for parking space ..... the landlord, if they wish to, will not have any parking available for the residential and will devote it for the commercial tenant. Kubby/ Franklin/We have no way to enforce it otherwise. Norton/ Franklin/We know right now that the apartment buildings downtown .... they lease those spaces in those buildings .... Norton/Let's go with it. Baker/The proposed regulation at the bottom of this page, majority agrees with it. Vanderhoef/And P/Z for review. Franklin/PRM stays just as it is. Vanderhoef/That is what Naomi wants to talk about. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 55 Nov/I don't agree with that .... just pushing people onto the street. They are going to rent a parking space from somebody in the CB-5 zone .... Council/ Norton/Did you want them to increase like they were in the other areas? Franklin/That means you will have less intensity of development in the Near South Side where we are trying to get a higher density neighborhood than we have in other places. Thomberry/All you are doing is .... making buildings more expensive in Iowa City .... Norton/Somebody has got to pay for the parking here. Who is going to do that? .... Nov/I don't hear four people who want to do this. Let's move on, please. Norton/I want to throw one thing in the hopper. Even if you don't change the numbers of parking spaces per bedroom and don't increase that and leave it the way it is, I am looking for some way there to make some benefit to the person who wants to provide more off site .... Franklin/ Council/ Kubby/The advantage that they get is that they have more parking and the place is more valuable for people ....They will have more spaces to rent out ....It makes that unit more valuable .... Norton/Leave PRM alone .... Council/ Kubby/Every year we have to change our South of Burlington Plan .... we don't leave anything alone long enough. Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 56 Animal Control Ordinance 97-74 S1 Nov/Animal control .... Kubby/We didn't really get any information about how the committee came down on these .... How the citizen committee felt about this ordinance .... they agree to what is in front of us... how close it was in certain areas. Are there notes from those meetings that indicate that? Nov/They didn't change anything. Misha Goodman/We changed a lot of things .... Shawn was on the committee. We went through every inch of this ordinance and went through any portions that you folks had problems with and any portions that anybody on the committee had problems with and any portions that any citizen group who appeared... We came to decisions... majority vote ....We disagreed on some things, we discussed some things .... Shawn Lockhart/There were a few issues .... circuses and rodeos and pigeon loft that we can to the consensus that it really isn't something that we could vote on... either council or public input to the council... flip a coin on those really because we were in total disagreement .... Lehman/I think there are several things... if we are to try to tackle this ordinance in total, it may be sometime in the year 2000 before we get through it... portions of this thing that really should be taken care of expeditiously ....a number of areas that are literally unenforceable .... Goodman/One of the things that happened was the Committee got very little input from city council .... I didn't get calls from anybody. In terms of the pigeon thing, it was discussed here before city council and then it disappeared into thin air ....The Animal Control Advisory Board wants it to disappear, too .... Norton/We talked about rodeos and circuses. Goodman/Right, you guys were split on it. Norton/Why don't we go down this thing in order and see where we get...? Vanderhoef/Let's take the things we can handle easily .... move onto another discussion at another time .... Goodman/Everybody understands the things in bold are new things .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 57 Council/ Thomberry/ .... Wolf dog hybrids. What percentage of wolf must a poodle not be, page 3? Norton/Page 1 .... Kubby/I had a question... B. 1. under what circumstances that the officer may enter private property. Does there need to be certain exigent circumstances in order to go through this process? Goodman/The City Attorney and I discussed this... a warrant would be obtained .... police officer would have to be there. Mitchell/They would have to show probably cause .... Kubby/There would have to be enough evidence that a judge would say this is solid... Norton/ Mitchell/And this exactly mirrors the State Code section on it. Goodman/Both 1. and 2. do. Lehman/Page 2... problem with the definition of breeder... I don't think it is enforceable .... Baker/ Lehman/ Goodman/How did he not know? Kubby/Because they did not have control of their animals .... Council/ Goodman/Does everybody know what the female in season code is currently in the city? Your dog, when it is in season, must be confined and in an enclosure that prohibits animals from getting to it. Lehman/That is another one that is unenforceable. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 58 Goodman/It is enforceable. Whether we enforce it or not depends on whether we receive complaints or not .... Kubby/For an unplanned pregnancy, I am sure that Animal Control would respect someone who came in and said this is an unplanned pregnancy, I want to get a breeder's permit after the fact .... Goodman/How do we determine when it is unplanned and it is planned? You can't ..... Thomberry/A person who offers to sell or give away a puppy or kitten .... You are going to arrest a little kid with 14 cats in a wagon .... Kubby/What you are trying to do is make people be responsible for their animals at all times so they aren't being bred when they are not suppose to be .... that they are taking care of them appropriately .... Goodman/... most of those kittens in that basket end up at the shelter and you are paying for them ..... Thornberry/I just can't agree with the breeder ..... Goodman/What changes would you make so that we had breeders in the city required to have a permit? .... How would you change this? Thomberry/X number of litters from any household. Goodman/You know that the Hawkeye Kennel Club in Iowa City agreed to this because they felt it was important. Council/ Lehman/ Goodman/What it would change is .... cat breeder in Iowa City.. has been breeding pure bred cats for probably about 25 years... selling sick cats... euthanizing litters of cats because she doesn't maintain the adults in proper fashion... Thomberry/I don't think a whole ordinance needs to be set up for one person .... A.K.C responsible breeders are not like that ....You cannot even show a dog that has been altered .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session Baker/Make it offers to sell or give away... just offers to sell. Thomberry/ Goodman/It tells the people in the paper, you are selling our dogs, you have a permit .... Those dogs are going to have their vaccinations when they come to me. Baker/ Council/ Baker/If you are selling it, that is a breeding commercial operation .... Goodman/Fine, take giving away out. Nov/I would like to leave it the way it is .... Norton/I am for leaving it. Kubby/Leaving the current definition of breeder. We have three people to leave it .... Baker I want to take out "give away". Vanderhoeff I will take out give away ..... Thomberry/ .... Lehman/ Nov/All right, we are taking our "give away". Council/ Norton/Definition of circus ....I wouldn't include the banning of it in the definition Mitchell/That is an error. It was suppose to be taken out. Kubby/ ....regulatory sentence, not a definition. Norton/Page 3, prohibited animal list ....piranhas were on that list before and they are no longer on there. Is that correct? page 59 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 60 Goodman/That is correct. Norton/For a good reason. I take it? Goodman/Yeah, we had the experts there who decided to take them off. Norton/Albertas boas .... Goodman/One of the things that Shawn and Mark Wepling who are experts in the field of reptiles did for us was give us an idea of the background and personalities of some of these animals .... Some of them have been moved from the prohibited to the restricted and vice versa. Norton/ Thornberry/Can I bring up my wolf dog hybrid? What percentage of wolf?. Goodman/Here is what is going to happen. Most people who own wolfs will tell you it is a wolf.... It is not a dog... they are saying it is a wolf. It is not allowed. If you have got a dog and it is 50% wolf, you are going to know it ....If you have a dog that has 25% wolf in it, you are probably not going to know. Thomberry/It depends on the breed of how much wolf you can have without being detected .... Goodman/Not really .... different breeds and there are certain criteria that make it a wolf. You have much longer legs, you have higher ears, you have longer snout .... Thomberry/I can see wolfs being prohibited. I can't see hybrids being prohibited. Kubby/What if you have a 13/16s wolf?. Thornberry/Who is to say. Kubby/If we know that it is a wolf dog hybrid, it is not allowed. Goodman/You are not going to know it... point of the hybrid issue whether it be wolf or coyote is that these animals and they are bred this way ....cause problems... aggressive, they attack kids .... Thomberry/ ....problem of the owner. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session Goodman/You are wrong .... Thornberry/ Goodman/Has anybody in this group ever owned or been around a wolf hybrid? Thornberry/Yes ..... over 50% .... Colorado... If it is over 50% wolf, I would say let's ban the damn thing. But if it is under 50% .... Goodman/Let's put 50% wolf hybrid and coyote hybrid in there ..... I don't want people in Iowa City breeding and selling wolf hybrids. Thornberry/ Norton/ Thomberry/I am a dog guy... I am saying 50% .... Council/ Norton/ Goodman/Fine, 50%. Norton/...let's go with it. Nov/I don't care .... Baker/Primates, down on 9 ..... My question is .... I am saying that there is no primate allowed as a pet in Iowa City. Goodman/Right. Baker/No... small monkey, nothing? Goodman/Right. Lehman/ page 61 Goodman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 62 Baker/You are not drawing any distinction between primates and some might be acceptable. Any primate is not acceptable as pets? Goodman/Right... on this whole list of prohibited, there are the most dangerous to all of you. Baker/Get rid of it .... Goodman/Spotted monkey fever. Thomberry/What is a lemur .... Goodman/It is like a primate .... Kubby/ Thomberry/All marsupials are prohibited. Goodman/Now we changed something on here except sugar gliders and that was, I personally wanted them prohibited also but they are currently becoming a very big animal here .... they take a special diet... they will glide around your house ..... The reason why they weren't put on a prohibited list is because the committee didn't find anything particularly dangerous about them to people .... they are not that hard to care for... Nov/They are easier than a koala? Goodman/Oh, yeah. Thomberry/ ....possums are marsupials, right? Goodman/Yes. Thornberry/ Council/ Norton/I want to ask about exotic turtles .... special gold star .... and they pet trade in them. Do we do anything about them at all? Goodman/Well, there are some tortoises that are legal to trade and some that are not... federal guidelines cover what is legal to trade and import .... Pet shop, we just tell This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 63 them and contact the authorities and they usually ship it back to wherever they got it from ..... Smaller pet shop will get something from a dealer that they don't necessarily know is illegal. Thomberry/Are all beaded lizards dangerous? Shawn Lockhart/Yes. All beaded lizards are also federally protected. Baker/ ....turtles? Goodman/No .... Lockhart/The little department store turtles are regulated by the FDA. Goodman/They have to be a certain size and we are requiting that they post a notice for salmonella .... we did that because there have been some links... children and iguanas and salmonella .... But we sell a lot of them here .... Baker/Some of these are govemed by FDA or other federal laws. Is that true for other things in this ordinance that are already govemed by some other regulations, state and federal? Goodman/Sure, some of them will be ..... protected on a variety of different levels depending on the state. Baker/Are there prohibitions or restfiction in here which are not addressed either state or federal level? Goodman/Snakes. Baker/That seems to be one of the questions. What is it in Iowa City that we are trying to accomplice that is not accomplished at another level? Goodman/The snakes that were prohibited, Shawn and Mark Wedling went over I can't tell you how many different species, breeds and such of snakes .... choose the ones that were #1 really difficult to care for, high death rate, or were dangerous to the average person. Baker/ ....minimum standards for maintenance of the animal? Goodman/ .... very expensive animals .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 64 Lockhart/As far as the snakes go, the only ones we actually prohibited were the ones that grow over an average length of 12 feet .... Goodman/And poisonous and venous .... Norton/Some that you would have had on the restricted list are on the prohibited list. I take it there was some compromising going on. Lockhart/Yes. Goodman/It wasn't compromising really, it was education .... Lockhart/My personal opinion .... nothing needs to be prohibited as long as the restrictions are strong enough .....$1,000 bond on it... a cage requirement that is bigger than his backyard .... Thomberry/Dr. Zimmerman is one of the few veterinarians in town that treats reptilia and birds. Was he contacted about any of these things that were prohibited or restricted or anything else? Goodman/No. Thomberry/..he just has his practice in Iowa City. Goodman/Everything we have heard from everyone locally who has these animals is that he is not treating them anymore. Lockhart/ Thomberry/ Lockhart/There are only two species on there that are prohibited that are known to be possessed in Iowa City and that is the vermice python... and some of the crocodylidae ..... Thomberry/So how many veterinarians were on the committee and how many pet owners? Goodman/Two veterinarians and I think everybody on the committee owns some sort of animal. Pet store owners, none. However Shawn and Mark Wedling speak to the pet shop owners frequently. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 65 Lockhart/The largest pet store... owned by Don Morrison .... Don and I are very close friends .... He has had input... Goodman/Shawn was bringing concerns. Kubby/Page 4, under restricted animals where some things say subject to zoning requirements. And the zoning does not allow any livestock, even chickens. So it is really necessary to put that in this? Goodman/... You have certain areas in Iowa City that are still agricultural on the outskirts. Woito/Yes. Goodman/There are places that still allow it. Thomberry/Anybody that has other small livestock... that are okay now, are they grandfathered in? Goodman/ Nov/As long as the zoning is agriculture .... If it is rezoned to residential, they are not grandfathered in. Thornberry/ Woito/As a matter of zoning, they are a non-conforming use that will continue until they disappear or until you rezone. But you don't have any grandlathering clauses in this piece of legislation except what I gave Dee Norton tonight. Kubby/...page 5. Thomberry/Rodeos. Baker/Circuses and rodeos, strike it. Nov/Keep it. Kubby/Keep it. Goodman/Does everybody know that you now have a rodeo in North Liberty? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 66 Council/(Yes). Goodman/ .... You don't need a rodeo or circus in Iowa City, do you? Where are you going to hold a rodeo or circus in the city, folks? .... Council/ Norton/I can imagine a circus in the Arena, Carver. Goodman/That is not city property, that is University. They can have it. Stick to Iowa City folks. Council/(All talking). Norton/I don't want to go on record as banning circuses. Nov/ Goodman/Does everybody know what happened in Hawaii two years ago? Nov/Everyone please listen and stop talking all at once. Goodman/It is a horror story, absolutely. Do you want it to happen here? Council/(All talking). Nov/I want to hear her. Thornberry/ Goodman/That happened and could happen here because there was no enclosed building and an animal got loose. Where are you going to have a circus or rodeo with wild animals in Iowa City. You don't have a building. Kubby/Why do we want to put that up to our community as entertai~maent where animals are used in that way? Baker/My dog entertains me, come on. Kubby/Then you don't need a circus. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 67 Vanderhoef/How about we just leave rodeos and circuses off and we will talk about those another night. Keep moving. Goodman/Leave it to the public. Nov/I wouldn't mind circuses which include animals are prohibited .... Goodman/That is what is says. Nov/Okay. Thomberry/Take circuses off the prohibited. Baker/Off the table. Vanderhoef/Off the table. Goodman/Until then? Nov/I think we should leave it just the way it is. Thomberry/I am off. Vanderhoef/Off. Norton/Off. Vanderhoef/Off. Nov/All right, we are not removing it from the ordinance. We are tabling the discussion. Baker/No. Council/(All talking). Norton/Taking it off. Vanderhoef/We can take it off for now and come back if we have a need to do it. Nov/I do not see enough people to take it out of the ordinance... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 68 Baker/Four people. Nov/ Vanderhoef/Take it out for now. We can always bring it back and add onto the ordinance .... Kubby/We need to talk about pigeon lofts. Lehman/It says that no person should allow an animal to make a noise that annoys, disturbs, offends ..... What does unreasonable mean? A complaint? Goodman/There is a problem with noise ordinances as you may well know, okay? .... We are trying to figure out a way to deal with our barking dog ordinance in a little bit more reasonable fashion .... We have just changed the wording a little bit ..... We want to require the citizen who is filing the complaint to be the responsible party in proving that fact ..... logs, video tape... It is very difficult for officers to testify in court that this dog barks because they are barking at this officer half of the time .... Something needs to be there .... We already send out pamphlets to people who have a barking dog problem... two, we would require people who are complaining to keep a log as to when this animal is barking ....If it does it consistently... it might be a problem .... Baker/Verification is important... How are you going to rely on testimony? Goodman/There comes a point .... you have to make a decision .... This makes them go through a little bit more trouble if you will to prove their problem .... Baker/ Lehman/ Woito/ Goodman/ Lehman/The word unreasonable I think is the key word there. Goodman/Is it unreasonable or is it not? .... Baker/I think the key word is disturbs. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session Lehman/ Kubby/Let's go back to pigeon lofts. Norton/I am proposing that we maintain that but add the words not withstanding this provision, pigeon and dove lofts which existing within the city prior to May 15 may continue so long as no more than 40 pigeons or doves are housed at any one time. Kubby/I would prefer to also have a distance requirement for grandparent law. Norton/I guess I find that hard to do to move the thing. Vanderhoef/Can't do. Kubby/We had testimony from a doctor saying that a special relationship is there .... parties have talked .... about helping with a payment .... Vanderhoef/ Goodman/Isn't it a civil matter? Council/ Norton/40 .... Goodman/Dee, what did he say he had to have to keep operating? Was it 40 or 50? Norton/I think he said that he could operate with 40. Baker/My last word was he had 40 .... It is a private party disagreement. Kubby/...health hazard. Baker/I don't think there is a public health hazard. Nov/I do. Baker/ ....that has got to be resolved privately. Kubby/ page 69 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 70 Goodman/I think that people didn't want to run into this situation again ..... Council/ Goodman/Karen, I have never in my whole career of dealing with pigeon coops, his coop is a long way from their living home .... big lot ..... I think she had an asthmatic problem anyway and may be enhanced by the pigeons .... She could garden 50 feet inland from the property line and not have a problem. I think Don would have been willing to move these birds hadn't such a big deal been made and he had been threatened in the very beginning ..... Norton/...They might be able to work something out .... All I am trying to do is preclude it from growing excessively. Baker/Either grandfather it in at 40 or take this provision out of the ordinance ....... it is non-transferable and when the operation ceases, it cannot be picked up by the next property owner .... Mitchell/We can certainly do that so he is the last person... last people that can have on in the city limits. Lehman/Dennis, what are the ramifications... if we do nothing or if we totally prohibit it? Mitchell/I don't think there are any ramifications. It is not a zoning ordinance so there is no prior non-conforming use issue if we do decide to prohibit them entirely .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/How is a public health hazard defined? .... Goodman/This went before the County Health Department. Baker/I talked to 3-4 people in the County Health Board and they said this is not a public health problem. Lehman/ .... I think we do not allow this sort of situation to reoccur and so we do ban coops... I don't think we let this happen again. Baker/ Lehman/Would he have to have a license to be a breeder? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 71 Thomberry/Do we know if this is the only pigeon coop in town? Goodman/According to him it is. Woito/Why wouldn't he need a license? Goodman/It only pertains to dogs and cats. Woito/Then you ought to change that portion of the ordinance. Goodman/It only pertains to dogs an cats for a reason. That is really the only animal that there is a pet population problem. Council/ Baker/ Woito/Can I get some clarification? Do you want this pigeon loft to continue with 40 birds for a period of ten years? Norton/No .... Nov/ Norton/Just going to continue so long as no more than 40 pigeons. Woito/Presumably you like the concept of amortization where he can- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-74 SIDE 2 Woito/This investment for X period of years and then it has to go away or do you just want it- Council/(All talking). Woito/What is wrong with ten years? Council/(All talking). Nov/If this man were to move away tomorrow, it would be gone. Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 72 Woito/If there are others existing they are grandfathered in beside him. Goodman/ Council/(All talking). Woito/So why wouldn't you want to permit this? Kubby/Why wouldn't we want anyone who is breeding any animal have a permit? Goodman/Because we don't think this is a problem, that is why ..... Kubby/Page 6? Lehman/Item G., isn't there a state law prohibits animals in restaurants? Goodman/Yes. Lehman/If that is the case, do we really need that in the ordinance? Nov/Where are we? Goodman/You don't. I think it is important for local people to know that the law exists .... It is just a health code law. Norton/Can't hurt to leave it. Thornberry/Question, 1.c. You have got to have your pet on a leash in an enclosed motor vehicle? .... Goodman/Right. Did you read later on the vehicle portion?... animal shall be crossed tethered or in a cage .... Lehman/ Goodman/If it is dangerous to the animal .... we are not going to pull them over anyway. Thomberry/I have really a question about one seat. Mitchell/That section is already in effect right now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 73 Council/ Thomberry/... I am just saying leashed or restrained inside a car I think is ridiculous. Goodman/Not inside a car .... Do you want to change the wording to either within or on a vehicle? Nov/If you have him in the car with the door locked, you don't need a leash. Kubby/ Thomberry/(F.)... no animal .... Goodman/It used to say no pet animal. Everything that said pet animal was changed to animal. Kubby/Page 7. I am interested in 3. under permits in terms of a renewal of a permit. Is there any kind of a reminder system or a postcard is sent out. Goodman/Yes, we will be doing renewal notices. Baker/Butterfly gardens are going to need permits under section A. Goodman/No, it is an educational- I think it is non-profit .... Atkins/They had to have permits to use city property. Kubby/ Goodman/I think we would consider that an educational ..... Council/(All talking). Kubby/Page 8 .... Nov/Does anybody have anything at all in this first section under Permit Rules? .... Kubby/Misha, are you thinking about in terms of the... keeping records? Will we be creating some model forms? I am on Permit Rules and Regulations, 6.a. & b. It would be nice if we could have some model forms that people could take home and photocopy to help their record keeping be easier. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 74 Goodman/We can do that .... Norton/What does 4. mean? .... Goodman/When somebody applies for a permit, they might want to have 50 snakes .... caging .... so it is going to depend on the animal .... We will call somebody for assistance .... I had six different vets who volunteered their time down there .... Council/(All talking). Vanderhoef/9. The overcrowding, the standard here again is probably flexible. Goodman/Yeah, that is going to depend .... Council/(All talking). Nov/Let's move on .... Norton/Page 3 at the bottom, 4. & 5. Can you interpret them for me. Breeders shall not allow the birthing of more than ..... Kubby/I think 4. says how many different females can give birth and 5. says how many one particular female can be birthed... Goodman/In other words, you can't breed the same female twice in one year .... and you are only allowed to have two litters per year .... Norton/Strikes me as complicated .... Goodman/Again, these guidelines went through the Hawkeye Kennel Club and they agreed with them .... Lehman/Page 3, 25. Why do we require that the .... where we require the pet shop license all cats and dogs over the age of 4 months? Goodman/They are exempt for having... kitten and puppy tags... temporary tag until the animal gets a rabies shot .... If they have an adult animal, they have to have a rabies shot for it which the state requires, too .... Lehman/Why can't we require... fill out the application for the license? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 75 Goodman/...they didn't like the paperwork. They thought it was the city's responsibility... We will have a list in the city who have purchased animals ....we can send out a card .... You are putting the responsibility on the pet shop owner .... Thornberry/ Goodman/You are making them the enforcement agency which really isn't appropriate, I don't think. Nov/Okay .... Kubby/Page 3, 3. pet shops, iguanas were left out of that sentence. Goodman/It should be in there also. Woito/There is a lot of duplication. I assume you want that. Goodman/ .... It appears to happen all through the Code .... Woito/It doesn't have to be... simply it. Goodman/I don't have a problem with that... Probably add to 3. is we will add tortoises .... Norton/ ....Circuses and rodeos. t understood it was 4-3 to just drop that at the moment. Lehman/Absolutely. Norton/If that is the case, then do you want to set some fees? Thomberry/No. Kubby/Because we are going to want our Animal Control folks to make sure things are done properly. It is going to cost us money. Norton/If you are going to permit them, you would want to charge a fee. Lehman/ Goodman/ Norton/I think it would be substantial fees .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 76 Goodman/There is an Animal Control person... that goes to the circus or rodeo prior to the show taking place ..... shows up to see what goes on during the performance .... If there are any problems, they are given notices to correct the problems before they open to the public .... Kubby/Do we need to have a section written up about that procedure? Goodman/I think if you guys are going to allow them, it is really important ....that we set some guidelines for the caging and maintenance for these animals .... Lehman/I don't see us spending a lot of time for a fee structure for something that probably never occur. Goodman/The fact is you have good rodeos and bad rodeos .... some of them will already maintain them in a proper fashion .... Baker/Do you go out and check out this Armory Circus? Goodman/Actually they got so many complaints... about their elephants that last year they had dogs and ponies, that was it ..... Norton/I think something ought to be in there about fees and guidelines .... Thornberry/ Goodman/The restricted animals and the prohibited would be for private. Nov/We had snakes at the Old Capitol Mall. Goodman/ ..... they called us, they said are there an requirements. We said no. They said why don't you come down and take a look at us anyway, make sure we re okay and they were fine. Thomberry/ Nov/They had an iguana there... kids were so excited .... Goodman/ Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 77 Kubby/Misha, are you clear that you need to come up with some model guidelines for circuses and rodeos and a fee? Goodman/Sure, is that going to hold up the whole ordinance?... Page 7.c. It says Division of Animal Control shall make such investigation. The word should be may. Thomberry/On getting information about animals, you say may .... I think it should... Page 3, 24 .... shall .... Nov/Okay. Goodman/Is everybody okay with the fees? These were just random. Nov/I have one question on the fees... how they are administered .... doesn't say per animal, per day, per year. Goodman/They are going to be administered per permit .... You will apply for a permit for all the snakes you plan to keep that year ....You are going to pay one fee for the year. Nov/ ....restricted animal .... Goodman/You tell us I have two restricted animals and you pay... for the permit... You are not paying per animal .... Nov/It is per year? Goodman/It is an annual permit fee .... it does say it in the rules and regulations. Nov/It doesn't say annual ....It wouldn't hurt to put it on that page. Goodman/Okay. And no one has a problem with the delinquent fees? This is exactly what we do on licenses .... Kubby/I think it should be some percentage of the original permit fee. I think that is too high. Nov/I think it is a good incentive .... Lehman/...leave it. Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 78 Kubby/ Goodman/ Norton/ ....local authority? Does that mean the city? Goodman/We could change it to say city. Mitchell/I am going to change those so it consistently uses the word city. Woito/We need to clean this up. Goodman/Do you also want me to come up with a fee for circuses and rodeos? Kubby/Yes. Goodman/Okay .... let me research it ..... Council/ Kubby/Are we done with animal Control? Nov/As far as I am concerned .... Goodman/So this is going to p.h. on the 20th? Council/ Nov/We are going to say tomorrow the hearing is set for the 20th and a proposed ordinance will be ready for distribution Thursday? .... Woito/It will take at least until Friday. Nov/We need to say this .... Karr/The publication that will go in the paper will give a date ....four days before the next day on the 20th. It will be available by the 15th. Norton/ Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 79 Nov/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session Non-motorized Vehicles 97-74 S2 Mitchell/Is everybody okay with the Civic Center parking lot? Vanderhoef/ One minor request. I talked to the president of the church board for the Unitarian Church... their services are out by 11:30... I would request maybe 12:30 or 1:00 as more appropriate on Sundays. Mitchell/Sure. Norton/1:00 PM. Vanderhoef/1:00 ..... Mitchell/Sounds reasonable to me .... Vanderhoef/Other thing... fee for riding your skateboards in non-appropriate places .... What is the cost for a moving vehicle violation like a stop sign? Mitchell/I don't have that list in front of me. It varies with the violation and set by state law .... anywhere from $10 to $25 plus court costs .... $28 .... Council/ Nov/You need a true disincentive to keep them off of pedestrian sidewalk .... Council/ Nov/Make it high enough to prevent them from riding where they don't belong. Vanderhoef/It is a public safety issue is what it is. Woito/The only reason why we have scheduled violations for such things as skateboards is because the judges wanted them. So we have .... leeway .... Mitchell/... simple misdemeanor .... Council/ Woito/This is local law, so you can make it as stiff as you want. Norton/Are these kids paying $28 routinely? .... page 80 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 81 Kubby/... I think it is a bite for most people ....we should get some data instead of two people's feedback at the microphone .... Nov/The whole idea is to be oppressive for those who are breaking the law by skateboarding or anything else at the wrong time and at the wrong place. Kubby/...this is not much of an option ....I think it is good to provide some space... leave fees as is. Nov/How many feel we should leave it as it is? .... increased? Lehman/...I don't have a problem raising a fee. Vanderhoef/I don't either ....safety issue. Nov/Either raise the fees or confiscate the skateboard. Mitchell/We can't confiscate them .... Kubby/Keep the fee as it is to see if providing a space makes a difference .... Nov/It has to make a difference if you raise the fee .... Council/ Mitchell/ Kubby/ Lehman/They are breaking the law. If they are willing to take the chance, they ought to pay the fine. Nov/We have had bicycles on sidewalks .... Kubby/ Nov/ Thomberry/Do what Larry said. Keep the scale the same for the first offense and next offense from the same kid, double it ..... escalating scale. Baker/An escalating penalty .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 82 Thornberry/ ....fee is the same for the first offense ....penalize the ones who are habitual ....I would do that, the escalating scale. Norton/Later .... Council/ Vanderhoef/I will support escalating. Thomberry/Three- four. Nov/All right. Mitchell/So we are going to leave it at $10 for offense, $25 for second offense .... Kubby/I think we shouldn't be making that kind of decision at this time of night ..... Woito/We will figure out the dollars later. Nov/Figure out the dollars later. Do an escalating scale. Kubby/I want to confirm, too, that we are still talking about just putting a cable up and allowing RollerBlading on the top floor? Mitchell/We are... Bill Dollman... get an estimate of what it is going to cost .... Nov/...Civic Center .... Mitchell/It is just going to be in the northeast portion... first set of parking stalls there... limited to that first lane .... Nov/ Mitchell/Having construction barricades available .... signage.. no parking here after 6:00 and after 12:00 and 1:00 respectively on the weekends. 1:00 on both Saturdays and Sundays .... Nov/ Woito/We need a diagram. Are we going to do this as an informal, let it happen as a policy for now?... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 83 Lehman/Try it. Woito/Informally, administratively but they still need a diagram. Mitchell/Okay. Norton/Thank you This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session SEATS 97-74 S2 Nov/Do we want to do something with SEATS tonight? Kubby/I think we need to talk about it? .... I am concerned about the number of vehicles that are in this draft agreement. I think right now we are doing 8 to 9 vehicles at peak times. If we go down to 5 vehicles at peak times, what does that mean for service .... ? Vanderhoef/...also going to be our full fleet is going to be available now. Kubby/Individual person who is certified to use SEATS .... one of the things... peak.. people are getting to work and they need to get to work on time to be a responsible employee .... people might be getting to work late .... Vanderhoef/We have some opportunities for picking up some of the extras on the cabs. Kubby/ Thornberry/Also going to depend on time of year. Lehman/ Fowler/Part of that is also on recommendation that we just serve Iowa City .... more vehicles available because they wouldn't be in the county or Coralville ....having cab for backup .... Kubby/... do you think we can decrease to 4 to 5 vehicles to get the job done. Fowler/We may need more vehicles at the peak... we don't really know .... Kubby/I want people who need to get to work on time to be able to get to work on time .... We need to make sure we have enough service .... Thornberry/There is more to getting to work than just relying in SEATS .... Kubby/...still is an individual's prerogative .... Thornberry/ Vanderhoef/Let's see what kind of information we get from the county in numbers .... page 84 Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 85 Vanderhoef/ Nov/Any other questions? Baker/ ....How soon do you expect to see a pattern and how quick can you adjust?... Fowler/I would think it would be fairly easily to adjust the number of vehicles up .... or decrease .... I guess that all would be part of negotiations. Baker/ Kubby/It doesn't have to be this short of a chart ....not staffing all day for peak. Baker/ Thornberry/We are asking for a lot of information for the county that we hope that we will be getting. Kubby/Shifting more people to cabs .... means that people are getting rides from people who are making a lower wage .... not necessarily getting that door to door service .... Baker/I thought there was some provision in there about training cab drivers. Kubby/ Atkins/We can arrange that with the contract with the cab company .... Fowler/I am not aware of any complaints .... Baker/ Norton/ ....6:00 to 7:00 AM ..... Thomberry/One vehicle Nov/How about the hours after 5:30? .... Fowler/This was originally put on the table one year ago by SEATS... us going with all private service after 5:00 to 5:30 PM ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session Thomberry/Some flexibility in there .... Vanderhoef/When the numbers come in....take a good look at it. Nov/For Saturday and Sunday, you are also going to use just cabs? And they are all going to have wheelchair lifts? Fowler/ .... cab company.. agreeable to obtaining at least two lift equipped vehicles or wheelchair accessible .... Kubby/When there is no fixed routes... people want to get to church .... Fowler/I am not sure what the split is on how many people need a lift to be able to get to church on Sunday. I haven't seen any information .... Kubby/I hope that we will look at that question. Nov/ Kubby/A Sunday activity when there is not fixed route is my message .... I am really concerned about shifting to cabs. Norton/How much are we going to shift? .... Kubby/...After we look at the numbers... feedback about this shifting to cabs .... page 86 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 87 Appointments 97-74 S2 CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-75 SIDE 1 Animal Control - re-advertise. Civil Service Commission - Lon Moeller Historic Preservation Commission - Michaelanne Widness Riverfront and Natural Areas - (County) Tom Riley This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597 May 5, 1997 Council Work Session page 88 Council Agenda/Time 97-75 S1 1. (Agenda #17a- Design Review Committee). Vanderhoef/Only thing that I would like to point out... announcement of vacancies... DR Committee is still getting into its category.. down to seven... question of how to handle persons that are on the committee that could wear two or three hats .... they are advertising for a licensed architect .... My suggestion is when we have dual purpose.. advertise for both a business and a architect .... increase the pool of people who could apply .... Novice... requirement on the committee .... Nov/Other architects? Kubby/I don't have a problem with shifting .... Nov/ Karr/We will have a recommendation for you tomorrow... Vanderhoef/Good .... Nov/Thank you. Adjourned: 12:03 AM. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1997 WS050597