HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-01-04 AgendaORGANIZATIONAL MEETING
January 4, t996 - 12:00 Noon
Council Chambers
Item No. 1 -
Item No. 2 -
CONSIDER MOTION TO APPOINT CITY CLERK AS TEMPORARY CHAIR-
PERSON.
ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING CALL TO ORDER-CITY CLERK.
Item No. 3-
Item No. 4 -
Item No. 5-
ROLL CALL
Under Roberts Rules of Order, the previous custom has been to use the voice
method voting. As the Charter does not prescribe the method of voting, Council
will need to make a motion to fix the method of voting. Nominations can be
made by balloting or from the floor. Voting can be by voice vote, show of hands
or ballot. Council Should also decide if the basis for decision is majority vote of
the total membership and procedure for canvass of ballots.
NOMINATIONS FOR OFFICE OF MAYOR
MOTION TO CLOSE NOMINATIONS
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Item No. 3 - ROLL CALL
Karr/ Roll call- (here).
Kubby/ Can't we even say welcome before we begin? It is great to
have everybody here. It is new beginning. It will be exciting.
Nov/ Yes, I second that.
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Item No. 4 - CONSIDER MOTION TO FIX METHOD OF VOTING
Karr/ Item No. 4 is consider a motion to fix method of voting.
Under Roberts Rules of Order the previous custom has been to
use the voice method of voting. As the Charter does not
prescribe the method of voting, council will need to make a
motion to fix the method. Nominations can be made by balloting
from the floor. Voting can be done by voice vote, show of
hands, or ballot. Council should also decide if the basis for
decision is majority vote of the total membership and the
procedure for canvass of ballots. Is there a motion to decide
the method of voting?
Kubby/ In the past we have always done a voice vote.
Karr/ That is correct.
Kubby/ I feel comfortable with that.
Karr/ Do you wish to put that in a-
Kubby/ I so move.
Norton/ I second.
Karr/ Okay. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Norton as the method of
voting to be voice vote.
Kubby/ The other thing that I have always been confused about is
the way we have done it in the past that people nominate
somebody for an office and we vote that person up or down and
if that person is voted down then we nominate a second person.
Other organizations I belong to we- Or maybe it is we nominate
people and whoever was nominated first gets voted on first. Is
that correct?
Karr/ That is correct. That is correct. We would have a motion and
a second to nominate someone and then we would continue with
the nominations, a motion and a second and then we would have
a motion to cease and then we vote in the order nominated. Is
that what you recall? Or does that answer your question?
Kubby/ That is what I am asking about.
Karr/ Okay. That has been the custom. We certainly can change that
if there is interest on the part of council to do so. Is there
any other discussion or further clarification? We have a
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motion for voice vote. What about-would you like to discuss in
one motion also the method of nomination or vote on the voice
vote first and then discuss nominations later? Okay. There is
a motion. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Norton that the voice
vote method be used. All those in favor? (Ayes). Okay,
carried.
Now we have the nominations as far as the method by which we
nominate and vote at that point. Karen has outlined the
previous custom. Is there any suggestions or clarifications on
handling that?
Kubby/ I move that we act as in the past?
Karr/ Okay.
Thornberry/ I second that.
Karr/ Moved by Kubby, seconded by Thornberry. Discussion. All those
in favor- (ayes). Unanimous.
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BALLOT OR VOTE
Item No. 6 -
NOMINATIONS FOR OFFI E OF~ TEM
MOTION TO CLOSE NOMINATIONS
BALLOT AND VOTE
Item No. 7 -
MAYOR AND MAYOR PRO TEM SWORN IN
Item No. 8-
MOTION FOR CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS
Council Legislative Committee
Council Rules Committee
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Item No. 5 - NOMINATIONS FOR OFFICE OF MAYOR
Karr/ Item No. 5 Nominations for the office of the mayor.
Nominations are now open.
Lehman/ I would like to nominate Naomi Novick.
Thornberry/ I second.
Karr/ Moved by Lehman, seconded by Thornberry to nominate Naomi
Novick for mayor. Are there any other nominations? Are there
any other nominations? Third and final, are there any other
nominations? Okay.
Nov/ Is that a custom?
Karr/ Three, three. Parliamentary three calls. There is a motion on
the floor. Moved by Lehman, seconded by Thornberry to nominate
Naomi Novick for the office of mayor. Is there a motion to
close nominations? Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Norton to
close nominations. All those in favor of closing? (Ayes).
Unanimous. Okay, the vote then on Naomi Novick for mayor of
Iowa City for two year term.
Kubby/ Before we vote- TWO years ago during the mayoral process we
had probably the most public process that we have had since I
have been watching council in the last 12 years or been on
council and I was really hoping that was going to be a trend
in our process. That I don't mind having a private component
to the process but there has been virtually no public
component to it and I really value that. And so I guess I want
to ask Naomi to talk a little bit about why she thinks she
would be a good mayor, what she would do and to ask anyone who
has comments in support of Naomi for mayor. I just think it is
important for the public to have some discussion on this.
Nov/
Well, as far as qualifications are concerned I think I have
been conducting meetings for various organizations all over
town, statewide as well. So, experience is certainly a factor
in this case. And I also think that it is time for me to do
something. Time for me to take on a little bit more
responsibility and I considered boards of national groups. I
considered boards of state group. I did not apply for either
of those because I think mayor of Iowa City is the kind of
thing I wanted to do. I really respect local government. I
enjoy the immediacy of local government and I chose- I am
going to be more involved. That is where I want to be more
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involved. Any questions?
Kubby/ I guess I want to know what does that mean being more
involved in (can't hear) more responsibilities?
Nov/ What do you mean by that?
Karr/ Could I interrupt one second and note that we don't have the
level set because everyone is in different- If we could sit
forward and speak to the mic. We are not picking you up and I
am sorry.
Kubby/ I am just asking Naomi to clarify what she means by taking
on more responsibility.
Nov/ What I meant was should I devote more time to some government
activity or should I just be a council member and not do any
more than that. And it was just a decision point. Should I
take some opportunities that are available or should I not?
And I felt that I should. So I said I wanted to be mayor and
I discarded some other options.
Lehman/ I would like to add something. I did nominate Naomi and I
nominated her for several reasons. First I think you are a
very non-political politician which I appreciate. I am sure at
the city level there are a lot of politics. We have a very
diverse council. I think Naomi has a unique ability to work
with people and I think she will be very affective in getting
this council and getting the job done. So I am very very
pleased, Naomi, that you did seek the nomination.
Thornberry/ I seconded the nomination for Naomi after talking with
several people who were in organizations with Naomi that Naomi
chaired and they said that-they indicated to me that she ran
a pretty tight ship and when people got off track she would
bring them back on track and some of us this has been lacking
in the past and I appreciate that experience that she has had
and so I was able to second her nomination.
Karr/ Is there any further discussion?
Kubby/ I guess I want to emphasize my questions are not so much a
challenge to the nomination but my desire to have some kind of
public discourse about selecting our leadership. I think we
owe the public that.
Karr/ Any further discussion? We have a motion on the floor to
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elect Naomi Novick as mayor of Iowa City for a two year term.
Voice vote has been decided. All those in favor of the
nomination say aye- (ayes).
Kubby/ Congratulations, Naomi. (Clapping).
Thornberry/ If I may be so bold. I would like to present Naomi with
a pin that says Naomi Novick, Mayor, Iowa city, Iowa.
Nov/ Thank you.
Thornberry/ You may change the color if you wish.
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Item No. 6 o NOMINATIONS FOR OFFICE OF MAYOR PRO TEM
Karr/ Item No. 6 Nominations for the office of mayor pro tem.
Nominations are now open.
Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Nov to nominate Ernie Lehman
as mayor pro tem. Are there other nominations? Are there other
nominations? Third and final other nominations? Is there a
motion to close nominations? Moved by Norton, seconded by
Thornberry, to close nominations. All those in favor of
closing say aye- (ayes). Unanimous. Motion and ballot. We have
a motion by Vanderhoef, seconded by Novick, to elect Ernie
Lehman as mayor pro tem.
Baker/ Before we do that it might be appropriate to have some
discussion about this office as well and I might as well start
it and I would like to try to explain why I will not support
this nomination. It is not a reflection of Ernie. I think
Ernie is a very capable and serves the council well and it is
certainly not an indication of a priority I place on this
particular office as far as its power or responsibility. It is
a parliamentary position that is necessary in this form of
government. I would have preferred the consideration of
another council member. In private discussions with individual
council members it was obvious that there was not going to be
a majority for that council member and I am referring to Karen
Kubby. Karen and I in the past two years have disagreed
significantly on many issues and I would expect that in the
next two years we would also disagree significantly on many
issues. However, Karen has served this community quite well.
She has been elected three times. She has always come to these
meetings prepared and shown a knowledge of substance that was
always impressive and more importantly I think we have missed
an opportunity here to make a fairly dramatic gesture that
this new council intends to be inclusive and diverse and
recognize that diversity and I thought it would have been
appropriate for the longest sitting serving council member to
be given serious consideration for this office and I am
disappointed that she wasn't and so I am uncomfortable
supporting Ernie on those terms but it is not a question of
Ernie. It is a question of process again and I wish that we
would have been able to have some more serious consideration
but it does not look like it is going to be that way. So I
would just like to express my support for Karen's position and
explain why I cannot support Ernie.
Thornberry/ If you felt so strong about that Larry, why didn't you
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nominate her?
Baker/ Well, Dean, I will tell you why. Because I have a double
disappointment here. There was nobody to second that
nomination and I didn't want to nominate her and embarrass her
in that particular sense. I just wanted to talk about her
credentials. Now, if you would like to second the nomination
I would be glad to nominate her.
Thornberry/ I have already seconded a nomination.
Baker/ Or anybody else.
Kubby/ I guess I would like to ask Ernie the same question I asked
Naomi just in terms of (can't hear).
Lehman/ First of all for the mayor pro tem, you are probably aren't
going to expect very much because hopefully I will not be in
a position to have to sit in Naomi's chair. But I sincerely
feel that I fairly represent the majority of folks in Iowa
City, opinions and their feelings, at least from comments that
I have gotten. I think it is an honor. I think it is pretty
much a perfunctory position. I don't expect it to be a lot.
But I am very proud.
Nov/
Well, Ernie, I may share some of these ceremonious things more
than you expected. Other council members be aware of that as
well because I may not make a full time job out of this.
Kubby/ It is all of our responsibilities to do those tasks.
Karr/ Is there any further discussion?
Kubby/ I guess I had- I want to thank Larry for his comments. I had
not- I had expressed some interest in the mayor pro tem
position and had done so not immediately after the election
and by the time that I had decided that I was interested in
asking for some support for myself for this position people
had said that they had already committed to Ernie and I guess
a lesson that I have learned from that is that I want to make
sure I know what all the options are before I make a
commitment and that again that is another reason to have a
public component to a process so that everything doesn't
happen behind the scenes. So I hope that other people will
share that lesson that before you make a commitment that you
know what all the options are, you know what all the
perspectives are before you say I will do this. I don't like,
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personally, to make commitments over the phone about how I am
going to vote. I just personally think that that kind of
public business should be done in the public eye. I will be
voting for Ernie for mayor pro tem. I think he will be able to
represent the mayor thoroughly when she is not there to make
welcoming co~ents. Any of us will run the meetings just fine
if we are called upon.
Karr/ Is there any other discussion? we have a motion on the floor.
Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Novick to nominate Ernie
Lehman as mayor pro tem for a two year term. All those in
favor say aye. 6-1, Baker voting no.
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Item No. ? - MAYOR ANDMAYOR PRO TEM 8WORN IN
Karr/ Item No. 7 Mayor and mayor 9to tem swearing in.
do this right u9 on top.
[City Clerk
[City Clerk
We will just
swears in Novick as mayor of Iowa City]
swears in Lehman as mayor pro tem of Iowa City]
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Emergency Maragement Commission
Johnson County Council of Governments (JCCOG)
7L~--, ~_.z.~ ~ ~,,..~, 7~,~
Iowa City/Coralville Convention and Visitors Bureau
HACAP Board of Directors (Hawkeye Area Community Action Program)
Student Senate Subcommittee
Item No. 9-
COUNCIL ORGANIZATIONAL POLICIES
Meeting Techniques
/
Public Hearings
Board and Commission Applications
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Item No. 8 - MOTION FOR CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS
Nov/ The next item on the agenda is City Council Appointments for
various council and off council committees.
a. Oouno11 Legislative Committee
Nov/ First on the list is the council legislative committee. Larry,
you have been on this. Are you interested in keeping it?
Baker/ I will be glad to serve again.
Nov/ Okay because we need somebody with experience, I am asking
Larry to serve again. Is there anyone else who is interested
in legislative issues on behalf of the city?
Thornberry/ I would.
Nov/ Okay. Baker,and Thornberry. Anyone else? We could have three.
Baker/ ¥eah, we had three the last time, didn't we?
Nov/ We did have three the last time and I think it is flexible. I
don~t think we are required to have a specific number.
Kubby/ That doesn't mean none of us-the other people can't lobby
and write letters.
Nov/ Of course.
Vanderhoef/ (Can't hear).
Nov/ We have Venderhoer, Thornberry and Baker. Now if you want us
to move-
Kerr/ We can do it all at once if you are comfortable. That is
entirely up to you.
Nov/ Okay, we can just say we move the above appointments. Go
ahead.
bo Counoil Rules Committee
Nov/ There have been two people on that. Karen and Sue. Karen, are
you interested in keeping that one.
Kubby/ I would be happy to give up responsibility to someone else.
It is a very non-taxing job. Literally and figuratively.
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Nov/
This is a committee that may meet twice a year. Not that the
first one meets anymore often than that. Anybody interested in
the Rules Committee? I will put me on the Rules Con~mittee. Is
there anybody else?
Norton/ I will help if that doesn't preclude some other office.
Nov/ No, it doesn't preclude anything. We will put Nov and Norton
on there.
c, Emergency Management Commission
Nov/ The Emergency Management Commission needs one council member.
Anyone who is particularly interested in emergency management
and would be willing to be a representative for us?
Lehman/ What does in entail?
Nov/
It entails an occasional meeting. They do not meet very
regularly but they do meet and they do some drills, planning,
that sort of thing for emergency management.
Lehman/ I will do it.
Nov/ Okay.
d. Johnson County Council of Governments (JCCOG)
Nov/ Next is JCCOG and we need five representatives and an emphasis
on need. This is a commitment to really go to the meetings.
Kubby/ I have a suggestion. Traditionally, in the past the mayor
has not been on JCCOG because there are just so many other
responsibilities. I know that Larry has a class conflict so I
would like to suggest that the rest of us be on JCCOG and I
think that is really good because there will be a couple of
people who have been on there in the past, three people who-
new people to the council. So it will be really helpful in
understanding all the connections between other jurisdictions.
So I think it would be really good for us and for individual
council members to have three new members.
Nov/ This is a commitment for 4:00 in the afternoon. That is why
Larry is saying-
Baker/ My teaching schedule fluctuates. In this semester it is
going to have a conflict and it probably will happen more
often than not.
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Nov/ We understand.
Kubby/ And if you can't make it then we can ask- If any of us can't
make it then we can ask Larry of Naomi to represent us.
Nov/
I can serve as an alternative right now on this. As a matter
of fact there is nothing to prevent the mayor from serving on
this but it is just been kind of a habit that the mayor has
enough other things to do and I have been on this committee
for a long time.
Baker/ It is important to have all five people there to keep the
county in line.
Nov/ That is true. If you cannot make it- We don't necessarily give
up a great deal if there are only four people but there are
close votes sometimes and this vote does make a difference.
Kubby/ Infrequently but it happens.
Nov/
It happens and you can ask another city council member. You
can ask the city manager to serve as an alternative. Let
somebody know you are not going to be there and somebody will
come instead.
Karr/ So is there one alternate, Madam Mayor, or two?
Nov/
One, Larry has a conflict. Put me as an alternate. If I
couldn't come we could pick up on Steve or Dale or send
somebody.
Kubby/ Do they have to be designated at this point?
Baker/ I will be the second alternate.
Nov/ Do we have to designate an alternate?
Kubby/ Can we have three just in case no one can come-
Karr/ I am not sure that JCCOG can allow for other than elected
officials in this capacity. I would have to check. Why don't
we check on it and go with the five and two right now.
Arkins/ I don't recall-
Karr/ Yeah.
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Nov/ You don't have to be an elected official. Kelly Hayworth has
been there instead of some council members in Coralville.
Nov/
e. Iowa city/coralville Convention and visitors Bureau
Iowa City/Coralville CVB. I have been serving on that one and
I would let somebody else do that if they would like to. We
need only one person. We need a 4:00 PM once a month
commitment.
Baker/ What day of the week is that? Do you know, Naomi?
Nov/ They meet on a Tuesday and it is often the same Tuesday as the
council meeting. They are going from about 4:00 to 5:00 or
5:15 and then there is time to go home and get something to
eat and get to the council meeting by 7:30. I have forgotten
if they are meeting the third Tuesday or whatever. But they
meet regularly on a Tuesday at 4:00 PM.
Vanderhoef/ (Can't hear).
Nov/ Okay, Vanderhoef has agreed to do that one. Is that okay with
everybody?
f. HACAP Board of Direotors
Nov/ HACAP Board of Directors. Karen has been going to that one.
Kubby/ I am on it and it has taken me- I have been on it I think
three years and it has taken me this long to begin to
understand that budget. It is very complicated. There about 86
different FYs and I would like to stay here.
Nov/ If you really want it, you can have it.
Kubby/ I have worked this hard to understand it. I would like to
stay there if no one objects.
Nov/ We don't object.
Nov/
g. Student Senate Subcommittee
There has been somebody going to the Student Senate
Subcommittee or has that been more than one somebody? Has that
been two people?
Karr/ Two.
Baker/ It was Jim and Bruno.
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Kubby/ I would like to be on it.
Nov/ Okay. Would somebody like to do this with Karen?
Baker/ Do you know when they meet?
Norton/ I wouldn't mind but I am curious in its connection. Are
there any other boards or joint committees that work with the
University at all?
Kubby/ No.
Norton/ It would seem to me that would be, given the history we all
are aware of, it might be appropriate to have such and I would
like to do that and I wouldn't want to do this and exclude the
possibility of some more systematic coordination or
coordinating committee with the-
Baker/ I always assumed that the mayor and city manager were on a
regular basis, sort of informal regular basis.
Atkins/ There is not formal committee to speak of that we work with
on the University. Probably the one that is the highest
profile by virtue of Naomi's position and mine, we serve on
the ICAD Board of Directors and there are several University
folks on that and Again, by virtue of our positions, Naomi and
I will be on the Chamber of Commerce Board of Directors and
again, that there is some University folks on there. But
nothing, no formal-
Norton/ That doesn't got to infrastructure and all of-
Atkins/ We have a staff where Dick Gibson and those folks meet with
Karin and her staff usually once or twice a year. Nothing-
Norton/ I have the same problem about the school board. Do we have
a systematic arrangement with the school board?
Atkins/ No.
Kubby/ No. We barely meet once every six months with the county.
Atkins/ We do exchange agendas.
Baker/ It is sort of basically issue driven. If something that
where we cross, we get together.
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Kubby/ We do have the-what is it called where we meet?
Karr/ City Conference Board.
Kubby/ The City Conference Board where the county, the school
district and the city but it doesn't deal with where to place
schools. It deals more with assessment.
Woito/ It deals only with Dan Hudson's job.
Norton/ I would hate to be accused on the first occasion here of
elaborating the bureaucracy. But given on what I can see on
some of the street issues and others where the city-where the
school seems to be an important factor. Well, it obviously is
an important factor in almost every decision. Need more
systematic arrangement there. I just bring those two up as
items to consider. This all started by talking about the
Student Senate Subcommittee. I wouldn't mind helping with that
but I don't want to preclude some other places.
Arkins/ The issue of the school district and relationship between
the council and the school district board of directors, we
have prepared a little summary memo because there is a very
clear informal relationship. I see Barb Grohe, the
superintendent, with some regularity. Again, our planners I
know talk with those folks. It is not a formal- And on
occasion, there are decision which we may handle routinely
that the school district feels an obligation to send to their
board. We don't really now that until the time. I am just not
sure if internally how all their procedures work but I can
give you just a little summary of what our history is of the
thing if that would be helpful to you and you can decide if
you want any more-
Norton/ We might just wanted to consider these two possibilities
for future. we don't need to do it right now certainly.
Arkins/ Is there council interest on preparing something on the
school district relationship? I can do that.
Nov/ There is some of us who understand that there is a lot of
interaction between school district staff and our staff.
Atkins/ Very regularly.
Nov/ In development areas and roads and all that kind of thing.
But, new people could use that.
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Kubby/ And I know that in the past there has been some more- Like
when Hunter Rawlings first came, had some town gown breakfast
meetings with policy makers from both institutions that were
very helpful and actually I took it upon myself to get an
appointment although I couldn't get one until February with
Mary Sue Coleman. She is so busy and I wanted to talk to her
about the South Side Plan because the University owns property
there and bicycle issues, how we interface there and if anyone
would like to join me in that meeting or have topics that you
would like me to discuss with her, I would be happy to share
that time. It would be efficient for her as well. So let me
know.
Norton/ That does drive me. If that is going to happen, that kind
of thing is going to happen, there ought to be somewhat more
regularized. I don't know°
Kubby/ We made a commitment two years ago to meet with the county
every six months and after we did that we met about once every
18 months. So I think we should start small and maybe with the
county and do our six month thing or whatever this group
decides is appropriate to make sure that happens before we
expand our agenda.
Baker/ I think the danger sometimes is they become perfunctory
meetings that we are suppose to have and we don't do anything
except take up each others time and I think that is why issues
drive the meetings more than anything else.
Kubby/ Although we do have a school board issue right now in terms
of the lights at West High that we could-
Baker/ We certainly need to talk about that, yeah.
Norton/ The University's growth and all of that I think is
extremely important or down growth, which ever they do this
time.
Kubby/ I move all the above appointments.
Karr/ I am sorry, can I clarify the Student Senate Subcommittee?
Kubby/ Kubby and Norton. And these can be changed if someone in the
next few years feels like they would like to switch or don't
have time or have other interests. People can switch around.
Lehman/ I will second that.
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Nov/ Moved by Kubby, seconded by Lehman. Any further discussion?
All in favor say aye- (ayes). All ayes.
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Work Session Schedule
Transcriptions
Minutes
Item No, 10 - FUTURE SCHEDULING NEEDS
Budget Session Times
Goal Setting Session Dates
Mayor/Council Seminar (January 13 in Coral
item No. 11 - A~u~
#9 page
Item No. 9 - COUNCIL ORGANIZATION POLICIES
Nov/
okay, now. We have various me~ting techniques, public
hearings, etc. Most of these ideas came from other people and
if anybody here has objections or no objections I should say,
I am just going to go through the questions on the memo,
quickly right through it. The first idea is when to schedule
work sessions. Do we want an afternoon work session for
example? Does anyone have any particular feelings on that?
Baker/ I have very strong feelings that we ought to maintain our
present-previous schedule for a couple of reasons. One,
personally it is much more convenient for me. Second of all it
is much more convenient for the public. Now they don't
necessarily have to participate in those meetings but they
ought to have access to them and I think earlier meetings
sometimes preclude that access for a lot of people. So, I very
strongly recommend that we keep our present schedule but I
would be glad to hear from other people.
Kubby/ Here, here.
Nov/
The other side of that from somebody, I can't remember who
right now was that these are work sessions rather than public
comment sessions and the council and staff might get more work
done if we were meeting at a different time of day.
Baker/ I don't think the problem of getting work done is the
public's fault. I think it is the staff's and council's fault.
If there is a problem it is our fault, it is not the public's
fault. So I don't think the time of day makes that the
problem.
Nov/ Any further comments on that one?
Vanderhoef/ I am okay with either (can't hear).
Lehman/ I think Larry is right.
Baker/ The public has got a routine as well as we do.
Lehman/ Occasionally there are things that come up with the Monday
night meetings that we allow them to come up even though the
public is not suppose to have input that significantly changes
how we view something. So I think- I think it really is.
Norton/ Might I ask, if there is an occasion when we see a long
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work session imminent that we might start a bit earlier on a
ti
par cular occasion.
Kubby/ And we've done that.
Norton/ And then continue so that there is still the opportunity
for the public to get involved at least partially. But start
at 5:00 o'clock some night. Of course you might miss dinner,
Larry, but other than that-
Baker/ I am almost tempted to suggest that the time and the
starting time are secondary to the ending time. That we should
agree that after a certain amount of time we stop. I am almost
going to suggest that but we will see how these meetings go.
After three hours we tend to be less effective.
Kubby/ It is time for peanuts and orange juice, right.
Nov/ Okay, so does everyone agree that we are going to try to limit
the meeting length?
Baker/ Oh no, that wasn't a formal suggestion. It was just- a
comment.
Nov/ I heard the comment. I know that we have all heard this
comment more than once.
Baker/ Not just from me by the way.
Nov/ I just want to know-
Kubby/ I wonder if it is realistic unless we agree not meet more
frequently.
Nov/ That is the answer. If we had agreed that we want to meet the
meeting length, we don't want to go beyond three hours or you
know, pick a number.
Baker/ No, I don't want to do that ahead of time. To arbitrarily
say all the meetings in the future are going to end after two
and a half or three hours. But we ought to be sensitive to
that.
Nov/ I think if a work session is dragging on very long we can say
we will postpone the rest of it to another day and at that
point schedule another day.
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Baker/ And some of that stuff can just be tacked on to the formal
meeting the next night if necessary. Some of the discussion.
Thornberry/ And I have confidence that Naomi will keep us on track.
Nov/ We are going to try. We are going to try. Okay.
The next one is controlling the way we are talking to each
other, interrupting each other, random order, more use of the
gavel. Everybody has read it. Does anybody have any feelings
one way or another?
Kubby/ I think we should not do this. I think it really disrupts a
natural conversational tone of conversation. It makes the
meetings much more formal, rigid, and emotional inaccessible.
That is how I would feel personally as well as to the public.
What I don't mind doing is watching my own behavior or asking
other people that if I happen to interrupt people frequently
to ask them to stop. To tell me the observation that I am
interrupting versus having very rigid way of having us talk to
each other. I am uncomfortable about that.
Thornberry/ I haven't seen too much interruption of council people.
What I have seen is rambling more than interruption and I
think if maybe we kept our comments brief and to the point
that would help more than anything.
Kubby/ So you are talking about self control.
Baker/ Certainly and I think we all agree on that but come on,
these are informal meetings and one of the things that happens
at an informal meeting is that you think out loud and that is
part of the necessary part of the process and certainly I
think we need to be more organized at a formal meeting perhaps
but informal we need to be as comfortable with each other as
possible and as considerate also and part of that
consideration is self control. So, I don't think there is an
answer.
Norton/ I don't look forward to much constraint on the work
session.
Lehman/ Are we not talking about regular meetings as well?
Nov/ We are.
Baker/ I was thinking of informal but formal meetings as well.
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Nov/
I was thinking of formal meetings in this case. There have
been occasions when we have talked over each other in formal
meetings or whispered aside and the tape is picking up
gibberish under those circumstances.
Baker/ You are talking about the formal meetings up here on camera.
Nov/ yeah, this has happened and that is what I am more concerned
about than the work sessions though this does happen at work
sessions, too, and we do get more than one voice at a time and
the tape just doesn't accept that.
Kubb¥/ I think we should just be conscious of that.
Lehman/ I concur with that. I do think though that as mayor if you
sense that we are going no where, it is your job to say hey
folks, we are really going no where. You know, and let's move
on with it. And I think we can do that without pounding gavels
or whatever.
Norton/ Precisely.
Baker/ One of the questions in this second item here is about
calling on members in the audience, people in the audience,
when there isn't a p.h. Maybe we need to talk about that a
little bit. I don't- We have done more of it in the past two
years than I am sure any previous council has done and I don't
see it as a major problem. That that is an individual
perception. A lot of times it depends on how long the meetings
have been going and how we feel. I don't have a good answer
here but I don't want to say arbitrarily we are never going to
allow members of the public to speak even though they are not
technically a p.h.
Nov/
Well, what I was asking for, at least in the question worded
here is a system of looking for concurrence rather than just
assuming that anyone can do this and I am not confident that
we always have concurrence on that. So, should we develop a
system for asking for this?
Baker/ If there are four council members who don't want that to
happen, then I think they should make it known and we can deal
with the issue then.
Kubby/ Well, that is just the way the mayor runs the meeting.
Norton/ I think it is pretty sticky to try to do that collectively
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to quash somebody. Seems to me the mayor has to make a
judgement about this and get a sense for what the council
really do and let it happen or cut it off depending on the
mayor's sensitivities. I think you play it out, the actual
process, of trying to say I don't want this person to speak.
It gets very uncomfortable.
Vanderhoef/ The question, though, of the mayor putting it out for
concurrence makes it very simple and straight forward.
Norton/ Oh yes, when the mayor sees the need for that the mayor
could ask shall we or shall we not.
Baker/ But you are not saying the mayor by herself will decide
whether or not-
Norton/ No, no, no. The mayor might decide at what point to put it
to the council. I don't want the council to have to ask.
Baker/ Because I remember Sue had that problem. Sue would, I think,
understandably want to speed someone along or cut somebody off
and she was overruled by a majority of the council.
Kubby/ And that is always our prerogative.
Thornberry/ I think when you ask for participation at a work
session shouldn't it go through the mayor then to see if there
is a consensus before the person is allowed to speak in a work
session?
Norton/ A work session I would think so.
Kubby/ The work session and the formals.
Nov/
I think under both circumstances we should probably ask before
hand rather than just saying so and so is going to talk to us.
We should say if the council agrees let's say so and so will
talk to us.
Norton/ The work session there is a presumption that they will not
participate, right?
Nov/ Yes there is.
Kubby/ And there are few exceptions that has made a difference in
our decision on letting someone speak.
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Nov/ We have made those exceptions. There is no question about it.
Next one is trying to hear what happens on a work session
tapes and we have already addressed that a little bit at the
end of the last council and I just want everybody to
understand that these are problems and we are going to have to
deal with it.
Kubby So instead of nodding the head we say yea or nay.
Thornberry/ Yes.
Nov/ Right. Say yes or no out loud and Marian will hear four yeses
or four nos and she will hear the tape and whoever is
transcribing hasn't been here and therefore will here it on
the tape.
Norton/ Naomi, I would like to have my two cents there that the
public also has to hear and as one who sat at a good many
meetings out in front, it is extremely difficult to hear. More
so at the work sessions when your backs are to us and so
fourth. In general, I am just urging people to speak up or get
the mics closer or do what we can to improve the audio aspects
of these proceedings because it is very frustrating to sit
there and not know precisely what is happening.
Kubby/ Is that in your budget? In your proposed budget?
Karr/ It can be. I would never turn it down. This room, just as a
note, is a very difficult room because of the levels and the
height of the ceiling and we are looking at a number of things
and we will come back to you with a recommendation. There are
other ways other than PA system that would possibly help. But
again, you are absolutely right, when you have got backs to
you and your have a round table informal discussion among
yourselves, you tend to start talking to each other and
dropping your voices rather than projecting to the audience.
And I think that is perhaps caused by the situation as much as
it is the room. We are working on it.
Woito/ Are you going to stay out here instead of going in there
because that room is now accessible? It didn't use to be.
Nov/ I don't know. There are often more people than sit in there.
Karr/ True.
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Kubby/ I think it makes us less accessible as well to be in another
room. More smoked filled even though it is a non-smoking
building.
/ Well, this is not the ideal situation either. I don't know
what another one is.
Nov/
And for the benefit of the work session we are not projecting
to the audience. We are projecting just as far as the tape.
They are here, they are certainly interested, they want to
hear but we are not projecting for an audience.
Kubby/ I think it is a dual purpose myself but-
Norton/ I mean if it is an open meeting it doesn't do any good if
we can't hear.
Thornberry/ It is an open meeting but it would be better to talk
around a table than it would be up here in an informal.
Norton/ I don't disagree with that but I mean the public is
involved all of time.
Thornberry/ And in an informal we are basically taking among
ourselves.
Kubby/ What would people think. We have had some work sessions,
especially when other people come in. We have been down on the
floor and I don;t know if that makes it easier for the tape
and or for the audience to hear. But maybe that is a way to
deal with some of this in terms of us talking to each other
and the dual purpose of the public hearing us because it is a
public meeting.
Karr/ I think that helps in some respects but you still have people
with backs to you just because of the situation of the room
and it does take out some seating and if you recall we have
had situations that that has presented a problem. We certainly
can set it up whichever council wishes to do and we are
looking at various recommendations and we will come back to
you. I mean we are looking at everything from even carpeting
the floor will help with sound.
Nov/ It will.
Karr/ We are looking at various configurations and there may be
more than one problem just as there is more than one solution
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and we will be looking at that. but certainly if council would
like to look at being on the floor on a more permanent basis
it just requires a little more set up. It certainly can be
done.
Baker/ (Can't hear).
Vanderhoef/ (Can't hear) Is there any speaker possibilities from
that room into here?
Karr/ Oh sure, sure. We have speaker possibilities-speaker right
now into the lobby. The lobby takes the overflow from here. So
certainly that could be done.
Vanderhoef/ In the interest of hearing well that may be a better
solution than all of this other.
Karr/ You mean moving into the other room?
Nov/
Well, if you are going to use the speaker, wouldn't you just
use it hear without moving into the other room. Would that
echo too much?
Karr/ No, it is not an echoing. It is a configuration. Why don't we
come back with some different things for you, some different
options? We will prepare them.
Nov/
Okay. The other question someone posed is do we want
transcripts of work sessions or would we rather have minutes.
Marian's memos are pretty well self explanatory. Tapes are
always kept anyway. People can buy tapes and disks and
whatever.
Kubby/ The informal minutes basically say nothing except what the
final decision was. It may even say council discussed the
issue. Well, what does that tell the public and I personally
would like to see a little more detail of minutes so there is
a sense of how we arrived
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-1 SIDE 2
We got somewhere so that they are informed about what we are-
Nov/ The is a choice here is to eliminate the transcript which are
very time consuming and then have typed minutes. People who
want transcripts can have a tape instead of sheets of paper.
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Thornberry/ I would agree with that. I don't think we need to
transcribe all of the work sessions. I think it is duplication
and very very time consuming for staff.
Norton/ And it is available in other forms, yeah.
Thornberry/ You bet.
Kubby/ Well, for five years anyway and there was an occasion, we
were talking about water rates where I went back to some
informal transcripts that really helped clarify what happened
in '91 that I mean, if I had looked at them the next year when
we are continuing for the next five years at least talking
about water and sewer rates, they will be gone.
Thornberry/ The tapes are still available.
Kubby/ Not for five years.
Nov/ The tapes are kept for five years.
Thornberry/ Well, we could keep the tapes for seven years like the
IRS requires.
Nov/ Marian, how is the storage space? Could you handle that?
Baker/ If it was just tapes and not typed?
Karr/ Certainly we can make any provisions necessary. The
transcriptions are kept roughly one year and the microfilmed.
So we don't keep the hard copy transcriptions as far as
storage. The disks we could probably keep seven without- How
many meetings are you going to have over how many- You know,
at the current rate we could keep five years, yes-Seven years,
yes. If there were a number of extra meetings and we doubled
on our tapes, then we would have to look at storage. but with
the present number of tapes we could do it seven years.
Thornberry/ If it is going to go on for more than five years (can't
hear).
Karr/ I think that is the concern is that at the time five years
you may not know you didn't need it but the next year you
would and it is gone.
Kubby/ Actually I kind of think we should have transcripts and more
detailed minutes and keep the five years.
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Thornberry/ Can we vote on this?
Nov/
We can but I think the question is typing transcriptions is
going to take- It is very time consuming. We cut out the
minutes in order to do that. We did not do that until
relatively recently. Until that time we had more detailed
minutes. So we have switched. Do you want to switch back and
there is no particular point in voting on it. It is just-
Thornberry/ I just don't think written transcripts of work sessions
are needed if they are on tape. Is that what you are asking?
Nov/ That is what we are asking, yes.
Vanderhoef/ I agree.
Lehman/ Yeah, but I think what you said, Naomi, might very well-
There are certain value to have this written down. I think
more detailed minutes might very well serve the same purpose
that transcripts now do and yet be far less time consuming.
Baker/ I don't understand that distinction. More detailed minutes
but not a full transcripts.
Kubby/ Somewhere in between. Tells the story.
Norton/ And points of view expressed, different points.
Kubby/ But not blow by blow.
Baker/ We are currently doing transcriptions of the informal
meetings?
Karr/ We are doing transcripts of both formal and informal.
Thornberry/ A lot of time.
Nov/ There is more than one person who feel as Karen does that more
detailed minutes would be serviceable for the people on the
council, for the staff, and if there are four of us we will go
ahead with that.
Thornberry/ Do you think there needs to be more detailed minutes
kept of the informal? Is that what you are saying?
Kubby/ Especially if we X the transcripts. If you say no to the
transcripts, we must, I believe, must have a more detailed
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minutes of the informal.
Lehman/ How much time are we talking about conserving if we do-
Karr/ Roughly 3 to 1. For every one hour it takes three to
transcribe depending on the scope of the conversation and how
many people are talking at once.
Lehman/ So we could eliminate 2/3s of the time by doing detailed
minutes as opposed to transcripts?
Karr/ No, no because the ratio does not then substitute the time
taken for minutes. When we do the transcriptions what we do is
we transcript and then we dictate in the conclusion to the
minutes. The minutes are the conclusion, they are direction
only. So there is very little time spent on minutes.
Woito/ That is because you already have the transcript in front of
you.
Karr/ That is because the transcription is already done. Now- But
it certainly wouldn't be the full amount. You would be saving
time definitely but it would not be the full amount saved
because you would be spending more time doing the minutes.
Kubby/ Now you have transcript of the informal that that is where
discussions happened and decisions are made. A lot of
decisions are informally made there and it is our history. It
is how we came to be where we are at. To me that is one of the
biggest values of keeping them on microfiche.
Baker/ Can I ask a question of people that have been on the council
before. When we look at, for example, the P/Z Commission
minutes or the minutes or the meeting descriptions, is that an
extended-Is that comparable to detailed minutes because it is
not a transcript but they are very detailed. Is that
satisfactory as far as the informal goes?
Nov/ Yes.
Lehman/ I would think so.
Norton/ I think Karen is asking for something further than that.
Baker/ She is asking to maintain what we do now, right?
Kubby/ I am saying to do the transcripts and detailed minutes but
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I don't think anybody is agreeing.
Norton/ I don't see why we can't have detailed minutes which I
think are important. I look at the minutes of the various
commissions. It seems to me they are giving the right level of
detail. You get the flavor of what went on as well as the
final decision. But why can't the transcripts, I mean the
tape, be enough? Even keeping them longer of put them on a
computer disk or something. Store as many as you want in a
small box.
Lehman/ I agree.
Norton/ Rather than type them out.
Nov/
And if the meeting goes for three hours there are probably
three tapes. Not just one tape per meeting. Little cassette
tapes.
Kubby/ Sounds like people are saying no transcripts, detailed
meetings and keep the tapes seven years.
Lehman/ Right.
Nov/ Is that what I am hearing?
Karr/ And this is for work sessions only, correct?
Nov/ Yes. This was a question about work sessions. Now-
Kubby/ Just for the minutes I disagree but I do not find it totally
objectionable.
Nov/ There is a disclaimer somewhere.
Kubby/ I think transcriptions are important.
Nov/
The next question on the order of the agenda. Are there any
suggestions on changes to the order that would help give us
better meetings, improve our meetings? One suggestion that
came up was put the public discussion later and another one
was limiting council discussion.
Baker/ Let's take those separately.
Kubby/ In terms of moving public discussion I think that that is
not a good idea. The reason that we move public discussion in
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Baker/ Yeah, I think your idea of moving #9 & 10 up makes sense. I
can see that.
Norton/ But would that move it up ahead of other public hearings?
Nov/ I would not move anything above the other ph.s.
Kubby/ So it would be #6, 9, 10, 7, and 11.
Norton/ Whether that gets at the question that Dee, the other Dee,
raised I am not sure.
Kubby/ I think it helps because one of the reasons we allowed
people during public discussion to speak on issues that were
on the agenda that didn't have p.h.s is because they were
going to have to wait for so damn long. Now they-
Vanderhoef/ However it is real destructive then when you are
sitting in the audience trying to follow what is happening.
Nov/
And also there have been occasions when those people were
allowed to speak again when council was talking about the
issue and we shouldn't do both. We should not have the people
speak first and last as well. So if we can just get around
that it would help.
Kubby/ A case by case basis. Some of those instances it made a
difference as to our decision because of their comments.
Vanderhoef/ This is one of the places that I would accept the
mayor's organization of the meeting. That if this comes up you
certainly can say to someone you have already had council time
on this issue.
Nov/ Or else we can say that the discussion is coming later and
please come back.
Vanderhoef/ I would invite you to do that.
Nov/ That works, too.
Thornberry/ Question on order of business. What are we moving here,
Karen?
Kubby/ I think we decided to go #1-6 as is. Then put #9 & 10, then
7 & 8. So it would be regular, then resolutions, other
ordinances and council business and city manager, city
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attorney.
Nov/
Okay. The other question I have is rather ordinances should
come before resolutions? There was some question about that a
moment ago.
Kubby/ That makes sense. The flow of our conversation.
Nov/ Marian, do you have any ideas about whether or not that would
work?
Karr/ Bare in mind that when you have the other public hearings,
you would also have the resolutions connected with those right
at the same time. So if you would have a p.h. on a project,
you would also would- You would have a resolution immediately
after it. So you would take care of those resolutions. So what
you are looking at then is the remaining resolution. No, I
think councils have done it in other cities. I think this is
customary only. There is no- In other cities they have done it
in reverse.
Nov/ If we put other ordinances in then other resolutions would
that make it any easier or better in any ways?
Karr/ So you went #1 through 6 and then #10, #9. Yeah. We will
revise this resolution and have it on for your first agenda.
Kubby/ But it will be later in the meeting.
Nov/
It would actually be at the end. Next question asks if we
should limit the number of p.h.s or limit the number of p.h.s
that are expected to receive a large response. Just another
way to consider how we are going to shorten the meetings.
Woito/ Sarah Holecek, do you know everyone? This is one of my
Assistant City Attorneys. Dee Vanderhoef, Dee Norton, Dean
Thornberry.
Norton/ My only response to that question, Naomi, is that yes,
indeed, we would have to be careful not to schedule more than
one biggie a night I would guess. There were three at least at
once session. It seemed to me that if we anticipate a big
response, we ought to allow plenty of time for that to happen
and not get to midnight before important issues before us. So
if that is at all possible, I am sure you can't predict
everything. I think the staff can predict some of these and we
can not eliminate the ones that are absolutely required. You
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must list the public hearing before you put something out for
bids. We have to maintain a construction schedule. But there
are other kinds of things that can be postponed two weeks if
we get a very crowded agenda. If we asked the staff to do
that, you can do that?
Kubby/ I don't think we should have a certain number. I think we
should let you and Steve have a discussion to not burden the
meeting with too much. Burden is not a good word. To have too
many p.h.s to have known discussion. Use your discretion and
trust you.
Vanderhoef/ Is there anyway that if you see we are getting to long
a meeting that we can defer on at the meeting?
Nov/ No, I hate to do that. If somebody came for that p.h., I would
hate to defer it on the spot.
Karr/ We also have some that are required to be set and held within
a certain amount of time and you might run into a legal issue
as far as postponing those without opening them.
Kubby/ In that case there might be some other resolutions that it
doesn't matter if they are two weeks from now. We could defer
other items if we chose to.
Nov/ We could but most of the p.h.s have been advertised, already
on the agenda and people are here.
Thornberry/ Just so we don't delay something that is important just
because it might take some time.
Norton/ We can go to midnight-
Thornberry/ That is real important. Just put it off for two weeks
just because we don't want to take the time to discuss it that
evening.
Norton/ We don't turn into pumpkins at midnight. At least some of
us don't.
Nov/ We all do. You haven't been here until midnight. You wait.
Baker/ We get very grouchy.
Thornberry/ But things move quickly late.
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front of P/Z is so that people who had a 30 second thing or
the message they had been getting the last couple of years is
five minutes. That they didn't have to sit through a bunch of
public hearings before they had a chance to say there peace
and because it was more accessible, a few more people came.
That means it was successful. It means we were successful. I
think we should keep public discussion where it is at.
Baker/ I think this is one of the better ideas that we did.
Vanderhoef/ The only thing thst I would have to say on that is that
to be real clear that public discussion is only for items that
are not on the agenda that evening.
Baker/ Yeah, we slipped up on that a couple of times.
Nov/ We slipped up on that more often than I am comfortable with
but-
Kubby/ Sometimes it is because of the order. If you look on the
order, the other ordinances is on the very last of the meeting
and sometimes people who want to speak at the podium during
public discussion don't want to wait for the time to the end
of the meeting. Maybe we should move #10 Other Ordinances up
after P/Z. So that can't speak at public discussion but it is
also not the very last item on the agenda all of the time and
it means that the resolutions which are more staff things and
not as much discussion happens on the resolutions. There are
lots of Public Works things.
Norton/ Why couldn't you move both of those. I was asking about #9
& 10, items 9 & 10, resolutions and other ordinances. Why are
they deferred? You know, by the time you get to council to
council business and city manager reports and so fourth, I
begin to think things are winding down and then oops, up comes
a whole new list of substantive issues. Why not move #9 & 10
up ahead of #7?
Nov/ We could put council business and city manager business at the
very end. Is that what you are asking?
Norton/ Before adjournment.
Kubby/ So we are last on the list. That is interesting.
Norton/ I don't know. You guys that have been doing it for a long
time probably have a better feel.
I
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Norton/ Too quickly sometimes.
Nov/
Okay. Another meeting delay kind of thing is the council
members discussing the issues with the people who come to talk
to us at p.h.s. And we all know we are not suppose to do this
but we have all on occasion done this. Maybe we should just
say we are going to do it differently next time because this
is a delaying factor sometimes.
Baker/ The previous council had the same discussion and the dilemma
was p.h.s are for the public to come and tell us what they
think. Very often what you discover is what they think is
factually wrong and so you have to- It seems like we are
obligated to respond to that. And then I think where we have
gone beyond that is sometimes we have asked questions for
clarification to get a clearer sense of how the person feels
about the particular issue. I thought we did a fairly good job
of not debating the public but we did let them talk and tried
to get some clarification from them. So I don't know how you
say cut it off-
Nov/
Sometimes clarification leads to back and fourth discussion
even if we didn't mean it to. We try to not do that. At least
I hope we can try and not do that.
Norton/ Has it been recognized as a problem.
arise? Has it been recognized by the
biggie?
Where did this issue
present council as a
Nov/ Yes, it has happened moire than once.
Kubby/ But in the past we changed our behavior and I have to agree
with Larry that we self regulated ourselves about that.
Lehman/ I tend to agree with Naomi. I think that we occasionally
got a little too much. But I agree with Larry, if someone does
not have the facts it seems just totally wrong to let them
make a statement on misinformation. I think we have an
obligation to say hey, we appreciate your being here but this
just isn't what you think it is.
Baker/ I thought one of the best council responses to a public
speaker, Ernie, was yours when Bruce Glasgow was talking last
month or whenever it was about the bicycle regulation. I mean,
you had to respond to him and you know, there are occasions
when it is very appropriate and I am glad you did that.
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#9 page 18
Kubby/ But if protocol has been to allow someone to finish
speaking, if you needed to clarify factual information to then
do it immediately after they spoke so that people didn't the
spoken word was fact and then to let people -council members
ask questions of the speaker. That is what we had been doing.
I guess we need to affirm if we want to do that and not let it
turn into a discussion.
Norton/ Well, the clarification you are talking about could happen,
indeed, after the person was done. There is no need at all to
take issue with their facts.
Baker/ oh no, we think we did a very good job of not interrupting
them but we did sometimes ask them to continue talking.
Kubby/ The last question on here is about limiting council comments
to five minutes. I don't like that at all.
Baker/ You know, that has not been a problem.
Thornberry/ For whom?
Baker/ For anybody. You can go back and look at the tapes and the
transcripts and time and whatever you want to and the number
of times that a council member spoke more than five minutes-
Kubby/ Greenview is the only one I can really remember.
Baker/ And that was it and then only certain council members.
Kubby/ I talked twenty minutes but I needed to make my point and I
don't want to be strapped when I am justifying my public vote
and the public business.
Baker/ Our comments have all been in the form of brief statements
and questions and sometimes when we explain a vote we will
take a little bit longer. I don't see this as a problem.
Nov/ Do you want it to go a little bit longer? Do you want it to go
to 20 minutes. Karen says 20 minutes is reasonable.
Kubby/ I am not saying say a time frame. That is not at all what I
said. I used that as one example of when I did take 20
minutes. I usually don't even take five minutes. I am saying
that we don't deal with this issue. That we allow people to do
what they do.
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Baker/ And if it is a problem we will respond to it. I just don't
see this as being a problem.
Lehman/ My only thinking is if we expect the public to be organized
enough to present their view to us in five minutes, I don't
think it is too much to expect us to follow the same rules.
Kubby/ I think it is different because a lot of people come from
one perspective when they are speaking to us and I might want
to respond to five different perspectives to justify my vote.
That explaining the issues are not simple anymore especially
when we are dealing with things that the federal government
use to deal with that now we are doing it. Like during the
campaign we were asked to talk about water and sewer rates in
one minute. Totally unfair. Five minutes isn't really fair
either. So, I disagree.
Thornberry/ A big complaint that I have heard from the public is
the meetings go on too long with conversation explaining a
vote- If you are going to vote one way you have got a reason
for doing it but you don't have to go into that much detail to
explain that you are going to vote no or yes on a specific
issue.
Baker/ That is just not true. I just don't believe that.
Norton/ I don't buy that either, Dean. One of the things that I
have found in listening to the council meetings with some
attentiveness is it is difficult for the viewer of the person
here to understand all of the issues and I am finding that,
trying to wrestle with that question. How that can be done
without expanding council time. I certainly don't want to try
and do that but maybe we ought to make more use of fireside
chats or something of that kind on the t.v. somewhere to try
to get the substance of these issues out so people understand
them. I don't want to extend the conversation at the council,
the 20 minutes on the average. I think under five ought to do
it most-
Thornberry/ What I am saying, Dee, it depends on the detail that
you are talking about going into. When you are talking about
sewer rates, then you are talking about the size of the pipe,
etc., etc. We are talking about how much detail do you really
want to go ~nto. Like Ernie has said, I believe that if we
expect the public to be as well organized as they are with
their- And sometimes they do take longer and the council has
given them longer. Maybe with somebody else's five minutes or
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F010496
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whatever. I don't know what the agenda is on that but most of
the time they are quite organized when they present their
argument. I don't know how much detail we expect to put out.
Like I said, the size of pipe on laying this pipe for the- You
know what I mean. 20 minutes you may not have had enough time
in 20 minutes to explain one particular issue but then if
everybody else took 20 minutes.
Norton/ But this has not been a problem.
Kubby/ The issue we are talking about is should we put a time
limitation on ourselves or not. I am suggesting that we not.
That we self regulate. If people have a problem with one
particular council member or set of council members we can
talk to that person.
Thornberry/ Okay.
Nov/ Somebody may be kicked under the table, who knows.
Thornberry/ Maybe the mayor can use a gavel.
Nov/ Okay. All right. The next question is amending an ordinance on
the floor so to speak. Do you want to avoid the confusion,
defer this to the next work session, then amend it, then put
it on the agenda again?
Kubby/ I think this is not a problem. That is happens once or twice
a year and we can maybe ask the city attorney to be more
forceful in clarifying what the choices are and what the
consequences are of our choices before we get confused. I
don't think this is an issue.
Nov/ Anybody else think this is an issue?
Lehman/ Not really.
Nov/ Okay.
Lehman/ Naomi, I have one other comment about p.h.s though. I don't
think we have addressed this. If we could require that the
public speak to the topic at p.h.s instead of letting them
ramble on and get into topics that are sometimes totally
unrelated, we could save a lot of time at p.h.s.
Baker/ That is always true and boy-
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F010496
#9 page 21
Lehman/ If you can it would sure be nice.
Kubby/ As long as it is done with lots of consideration.
Baker/ Because you 10se the public relations battle which is part
of our responsibilities of getting people comfortable to come
down and talk to us if we are too heavy handed even when it
might be justified. So, you know, mayor, you have a tough job.
Nov/
It is the kind of thing we can ask. You may find that people
ramble on and get off the topic anyway but the same thing
where we ask for five minutes and people go beyond that.
Baker/ This is sort of a subsection of that same issue. You know,
we have allowed in the past a speaker to appropriate other
people's time. I think that is at our discretion. I mean, does
this council want to continue letting one speaker say well I
have got x, y, and z's permission, their five minutes, so I am
going to talk for 20 minutes.
Nov/ No, we haven't done that more than a couple of times. We found
it did not work.
Kubby/ The times we did it is when there were maybe 20 people from
a neighborhood association. Instead of each one of you
speaking for five minutes that the head of the organization,
an appointed spokesperson, got the time they needed to make a
statement and I think that is very fair. That is a case by
case basis.
Baker/ It is difficult because there are also those times when it
is obvious that people who had no intention of speaking say
sure, sure, he has got my permission, go ahead. One thing we
also have to remember is we are talking about our
responsibility in the way we perform and we have to have a
certain expectation of the public as well. Democracy is
something that they have to prepare for and participate in and
five minutes a person might be appropriate.
Norton/ Times 20?
Baker/ I am talking about the public, not us.
Norton/ No, times 20 in the public, I mean.
Nov/ Well, he is right. There are people in the audience who came
to show support but did not intend to speak and therefore they
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F010496
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say okay, if I am entitled to five minutes, I am giving it to
somebody else. It happens.
Baker/ It is hard to set the rule up for the next two years right
now.
Nov/ Well, on a case by case basis. Back to where we started.
Kubby/ Yeah. I can recall a resident in Towncrest just wasn't well
organized and articulate. That is just who that person is and
got cut off and they were talking about a very emotional issue
for them, their home. That didn't seem appropriate. So I guess
I want say it in general five minutes and use some discretion.
Nov/
The next one is basically housekeeping. Marian said we can put
recommendations for various boards and commission into the
consent calendar. Since we don't really act on them, they
don't need to be a separate part of the agenda.
Lehman/ Let's do it.
Norton/ The recommendation will be explicit there though?
Nov/ Yes, explicit recommendation.
Norton/ Not just buried in the minutes?
Nov/ No, no. We can say the minutes of P/Z Commission and right
under that list the recommendation we are suppose to be
particularly pointed out. Some minutes will show
recommendations for council at the beginning of the minutes.
They will pull them and put them in there that way but not all
the commissions.
Vanderhoef/ How do you follow through then with some of the things
like the P/R when there were recommendations made and I have
never seen them come through?
Nov/ We have put them in the agenda. We have said okay, we have
heard you and that is all we do. We don't act on them at that
moment on the agenda. Sometimes when they are on the agenda at
the end we have already acted on them. So it seems redundant
to accept those recommendations again.
Lehman/ We should use the word receive the recommendations.
Nov/ True. Receive and-
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F010496
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Kubby/ If they need follow up it is the city manager and the
mayor's responsibility to put them on a work session (can't
hear) so we can act on them officially.
Vanderhoef/ Something that on occasion or two it would have been
real nice to hear back at the commission level what the
council has or hasn't done at that point. That- You know,
where it is.
Nov/ Sometimes those kinds of things are needed by more than one
commission. They need to hear each other.
Atkins/ Also Dee, that is a department director responsibility. We
meet every Wednesday at 10:00 and they know what you have
done. If they are not reporting- I will bring it up at the
next staff meeting. We can prepare something informal if you
would like to gc. But the department director has an
obligation to report back to the commission. I will take care
of that.
Vanderhoef/ And we have done very well with that. It is just a
couple of things that I recall that I figured would take a
vote by council and I never saw them come through this
council.
Atkins/ I will take care if it.
Nov/ Next question is council breaks. Do you want to formalize this
for a period of time?
Kubby/ No.
Baker/ No.
Norton/ If it gets long, we quit.
Thornberry/ (Can't hear). Maybe not official but you know, like
Karen said, you know, I am for (can't hear).
Nov/ I don't plan to sit for long period of time. If somebody says
two hours does not feel right to them, say it now and I will
work for an hour and a half or whatever we need.
Vanderhoef/ I would appreciate a break in the middle of anticipated
long meeting and I would request that the mayor look at where
we are in the discussion and take the break when you think it
is the appropriate time to take the break.
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F010496
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Nov/ I would like to somehow say we are going to take a break so
that we don't end up with this or that person leaving the
meeting and missing a vote just because they walked out of the
meeting.
Kubby/ And if you need a break and we are not having one, feel free
to get up, take a break.
Lehman/ Or to request it.
Kubby/ Or to send a note to the mayor saying it is about time for
a break.
Nov/ I have been sending notes to mayors for a long time.
Baker/ I would like the record to show that Dean did say he was
going to go with the flow.
Nov/ I heard him say that.
Thornberry/ I go with the flow.
Nov/ Does this council feel comfortable with this kind of seating
arrangement?
Council/ (All talking).
Baker/ Karen, would you like to be a little further left?
Kubby/ I definitely would. But I choose not to right now.
Council/ (All talking).
Baker/ That means I am the most right wing person on this council.
You are on my left.
Nov/ Depending from which perspective.
Baker/ But Karen is on your right.
Nov/ That is right. She is.
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ Do we want a goal setting meeting and do we want a
facilitator? If we want a goal setting meeting and the next
question is little plastic name badges and what color and
pins, not pens. Does anybody have any feelings on either of
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F010496
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those?
Kubby/ I think maybe we have a deadline if we want business cards
or pins you get the City Clerk if that is the person who is
doing it by a certain deadline with your information and then
it is up to each of us to communicate.
Nov/ Well, we could order them all at one time in one color. If
Dean Thornberry came with this one. I think this one is a neat
idea which I cut up from a paper computer printed badge.
Norton/ This isn't a real biggie.
Nov/ No, it isn't a real biggie so if somebody want sit they can
have it. Okay, individual choice on this one.
Norton/ What do you mean? On the color of the badge?
Nov/ Do you or do you not want a badge is an individual choice? Do
you or do you not want a color? Do you want a city logo? Do
you want to order all of them at the same time?
Council/ (All talking).
Norton/ I like to blue one that Dean brought for you.
Council/ (All talking).
Norton/ What have you been doing in the past?
Nov/ We have had these-
Kubby/ Ugly brown things.
Nov/ Which I though were very non-readable which therefore I put on
the agenda.
Norton/ Okay, they should be bigger and a different color.
Nov/ So talk to Dean about colors. He has got the whole set here.
Back to goal setting. Do you want a goal setting session or
not?
Kubby/ Yes.
Norton/ I think so.
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F010496
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Nov/ Okay. Do we want to do this in house with staff? Do we want an
outside facilitator? Do we need to book the date? Do we all
have our date books with us? Think about it right now.
Vanderhoef/ I think we have a lot of capable people on staff that
can do this.
Norton/ I house.
Lehman/ I agree.
Nov/ Okay, in house sounds fine with me. Anyone else object?
Arkins/ I would remind you of one thing about an in house
facilitator. That individual disciplines the group process and
so there is a little bit of intimidation. Kind of keep that in
mind. If I tell you to sit down and be quiet, if I was doing
the facilitator I certainly wouldn't have to hear about that
later on.
Nov/
I think we have done it both ways and our CIP discussion with
Steve as facilitator have worked quite well. Nobody stood up
and yelled at him.
Atkins/ If you recall though, before the meeting I gave the same
speech to understand that- I was going to keep you on track.
Kubby/ We have had an outside facilitator.
Norton/ How did that work?
Kubby/ Fine.
Norton/ Why not go with that then if you have been doing it that
way?
Nov/ It doesn't work all the time. It is limiting to some extent.
Lehman/ I guess I would question that it works any better than in
house.
Kubby/ I don't know. I have never experienced a goal setting
session in house in terms of generalizing. We have always done
it as an outside facilitator.
Baker/ I would prefer an outside facilitator but I have no
preference on who.
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F010496
#9 page 27
Atkins/ Steve's point is %;ell taken. I
outsider. Clearly there are good ones
presumably pick a good facilitator.
think it would be an
and bad ones. We could
Baker/ We can ask them.
Nov/ You don't know until you have done it. We've been limited to
some extent.
Kubby/ I know that we have used the same one at our goals setting
sessions and that if we are going to use an outside one I
would recommend that we just switch to a different person. Not
to say that anything was bad about that person's ability but
it is good every once in a while to do something a little
different. That the energy and dynamics are a little different
if you have a different person leading it through a process.
Nov/ I think we get into more discussion and more focus if we did
it in house.
Baker/ Want to take a vote? I say get a facilitator.
Kubby/ Outside?
Baker/ Outside.
Norton/ Outside. I could be outside.
Baker/ You are an insider now, Dee.
Norton/ I could be outside. There are still only three of us.
Baker/ If four people want inside we will do it inside.
Council/ (All talking).
Kubby/ There are four people who want to do an inside job.
Baker/ Dean, do you want an outside or an inside?
Thornberry/ Well, as far as goal setting using an outside
facilitator (can't hear).
Arkins/ If you go inside, it is going to be me. I think that is
probably- Because-
Thornberry/ ¥ou are going to be the inside facilitator?
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F010496
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Atkins/ Yeah, if we are going to have an inside facilitator I think
you got me. I don't think I could delegate that one.
Nov/ We have worked with Steve on budget discussions, CIP
priorities. We have worked with Karin Franklin on other
planning type issues, non CIP budget.
Kubby/ The only problem is there have been times during our goal
setting where Steve has been a resource for us and that makes
him have two different hats. That may or may not be a conflict
with the role of being a facilitator.
Thornberry/ What do you think, Steve?
Arkins/ I will do it. I just think as long as you understand my
general concerns about doing it. We all know each other well
enough that I am not concerned about retribution in anything
such as that but I am- The- Yeah, I will do it.
Baker/ Your hesitation and your admission of having concerns is the
reason for me to say we ought to have na outside-
Norton/ One of the reasons for such a session might be to let's say
get outside of Steve's agenda, whatever that might be for
example. Not that he has one but-
Atkins/ Everyone has an agenda.
Norton/ It might be nice to get outside that. That is why I am
. ~
urging an outside facilitator not any dlsrespec_ for Steve.
Nov/ I think the people who are sitting here on council will voice
their concerns about their own agendas no matter who is
leading the discussion. I really can't see Steve dominating
the council.
Kubby/ Why don't we take a voice again as to insider?
Atkins/ Can I make one comment on the
necessarily saying if you go outside,
used in the past.
outside? You aren't
it is Tim that we have
Kubby/ I would suggest not, actually.
Atkins/ That is what I am saying. That will take me a little more
time if you direct me to do that to look for some other folks
and check them out. I mean we know Tim's style. I just-
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FO 10496
#9 page 29
Kubby/ Maybe someone who works with him.
Arkins/ We will see.
Nov/ Or it may be a whole other group, too. These things are quite
possible.
Norton/ If there is somebody from Williamsburg or from Ames who I
thought would have been very effective.
Atkins/ We will find- I think there are a lot of good folks that
are University- We will find someone.
Nov/ Outside? Looks like four.
Atkins/ Okay.
Kubby/ So we need to find a date.
Lehman/ That is going to depend on what steve can line up, isn't
Atkins/ Obviously not right away.
Kubby/ You get back to us about it with some dates.
Atkins/ Give me a couple of days to make some calls and to check
some people out.
Kubby/ Usually it has been a Saturday, 8:00 to noon.
Norton/ That needs to be sooner rather than later I assume.
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FO 10496
#10 page
Item No. 10 - FUTURE SCHEDULING NEEDS
Atkins/ Well, keep in mind, your January schedule and we will talk
about that momentarily. I have you 8th and 9th for a budget
session. The following Monday and Tuesday is a council
meeting. The following 22nd and 23rd-
Karr/ There is also no Saturday in January that is going to work
for a goal setting because I know that when we are looking at
budget sessions from talking...
Kubby/ The other thing that gets to be a catch-22 is that one of
the purposes of goal setting session is to see what our goals
are as a group and individually so that that helps guide us
through the budget process. Although the beginning of the
budget process is informational and not decision making.
Atkins/ The session on the 8th which I am assuming will start at
6:30, I need a couple of hours with you to take you through
how we got where we are, what some of the major issues are. I
know what some of the major budget issues are going to be
before you and I have separate presentations planned to bring
folks in. Probably do those on the 9th. The first session is
overview and if there is any expression of concerns,
particularly if you need some staff work on something. The
budget as I am sure you already know, is not dramatically
different than the current package of services other than
Transit. We do want to spend some time with you on that.
Norton/ Could you review? I am not quite sure where we stand on the
budget. Can we hear what the budget schedule is so far so we-
Karr/ The budget schedule that we have right now is alternate
Monday and Tuesday. So we will start Monday, the 8th, Tuesday
the 9th.
Norton/ No Saturday sessions?
Karr/ Not at this time, no. The time is yet to be determined. It is
on your agenda as item #10.
Nov/ Do we want to talk about time now? Everybody seems to have a
calendar handy.
Atkins/ The 8th and 9th, I mean traditionally we have started those
at 6:30 and we have been very good about disciplining
ourselves to end at 9:00 or 9:30. Really not much later than-
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F010496
#10 page 2
And the first session I will need for overview. The second
session is going to be a little more substantive. There was a
suggestion to do this earlier.
Atkins/ I don't mind that.
Nov/ I don't know who said it but I thought we would bring it up.
Atkins/ Do you want to start at 6:00? That ia really up to you all.
Nov/ We could start at 5:00. We could start at 4:00. I think 4:00
was the idea that somebody had mentioned.
Baker/ No, I mean I can't do it. 6:00 is fine with me.
Kubby/ Especially if we say we are going 2 1/2 or 3 hours. I think
6:30 is fine.
Norton/ 6:30 works.
Thornberry/ 6:30.
Nov/ Sounds like 6:30.
Norton/ Is that the 8th and 9th?
Karr/ 8th and 9th, that is correct.
Norton/ Also the 22nd and 23rd.
Karr/ Yes.
Norton/ Does that preclude any special meetings?
Karr/ No it does not. As long as you are meeting you could combine
that and we would have to give separate notice but we
certainly can have formal meetings the same evening.
Norton/ Let's suppose we get in a bind on the water issue. Meet on
the 16th and have a special meeting on the 23rd and another
one on the 30th. I am not predicting that, no.
Atkins/ Thank you. So 6:30 the 8th and 9th are sc~id now?
Nov/ And 22nd and 23rd.
Arkins/ And 22nd and 23rd.
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F01049S
#10 page 3
baker/ Are we getting any other- Other than the folder that we got,
are we getting anything else on the budget this coming
weekend. Or is that the only material we are going to get?
Atkins/ We have some misc. things now. We are still assembling. I
am trying to get the rest of is done because next week I may
not be here. I am going to try to get as much done as we can.
I canit promise you Larry because I haven't gotten anything
from the other department directors. I will try to minimize
the budget.
Baker/ I wondered if I was missing something here?
Atkins/ No, no, you have all gotten what I am going to give you.
One document I am working on is something I called- I called
it things to think about and they are like 6-8 sort of bigger
issues that you need to have in the back of your mind. You
don't need to- I need to decide this tonight. But they kind of
have an overriding 3, 4, 5 years that you need to be thinking
about that will have some affect upon your decision. I have
not finished that document yet.
Kubby/ You know, in the last two years we tried maybe 3-4 times a
year to meet on a Saturday to talk about a larger issue. To
focus like on the housing issue or on economic development and
it allowed us instead of dealing with 50 issues to deal with
one and really focus and have some good discussion and
sometimes there as a resolution or a direction. Sometimes
there was not. I found those very fruitful and I don't have
any ones in particular in mind right now but I don't want us
to preclude that possibility. I think it was very productive.
Atkins/ That and remember the upcoming memos issues memo that I
prepared for you back in November and I have been kind of
using that as a working document. The kind of things that are
percolating along. So if you see things in there that you-
Particularly if you see something in there that you don't feel
you are real real comfortable with and you want some
background. I mean just give me a little lead time and we can-
Some of the old timers on council are very familiar with the
issues.
Nov/ This was dated November 6.
Atkins/ Yeah, I kind of used that as a working document so that you
know those are the things you are going to be seeing.
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F010496
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Nov/ I like this kind of thing.
Atkins/ ¥eah, it makes it kind of a nice work program for us.
Kubby/ I one other meeting logistics that I had written council a
memo about in terms of each of us taking some responsibility
for facilitating our informal meetings and maybe not every
time but maybe every once in a while. I wanted to get some
feedback about that.
Vanderhoef/ Karen, I thought it was a real nice offer to take some
of the load off the mayor and the rest of the council.
However, as I look at it logistically, I am not real
comfortable in that the staff is going to have to be
coordinating action with a number of different people if we
would go with that format and it would be difficult for me to
know who was in charge and who was following up on what and I
think it might be the same for staff members. So I would not
be supportive of that.
Baker/ I think it is a good idea if people are interested in doing
it. For example, if Naomi wants to work with people to do
this, I think it is a great idea. I personally probably will
not be asking to do it. But if some other council members want
to do it and is interested in working with the mayor on
something like this, I would certainly support it.
Thornberry/ I think maybe I like the idea but-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-2 SIDE 1
Thornberry/ Maybe the mayor pro tem could be the run running the
meetings in absence. I mean, with the mayor there. The mayor
pro tem could do that, giving that person the opportunity to
handle that meeting.
Lehman/ Let me just suggest, having been to informal meetings for
two years, that they have been just that, informal. And I
think that we work-As a council, I think we work very very
well together. You know, I didn't see any domination by any
particular person and I really don't see that we would be
improving or virtually changing in the way we did the last two
years.
Kubby/ I do. I do. I think there were many opportunities to
paraphrase what happened. To state what the facilitator
thought was the jest of the group. To get confirmation of that
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and to move on to the next step. There were many opportunities
to do that that weren't (can't hear).
Nov/
I guess this is up to the individual person conducting the
meetings. I don't think a rotating chair is the best way to
handle it.
Kubby/ It doesn't seem like there are people interested- People
think it is a good idea but aren't support of it. That is what
I have been hearing. So we don't really need to talk about it.
It is either the mayor or mayor pro tem don't feel like
running the meeting, I would be happy even at the last minute
to do that.
Norton/ I do have one comment in this regard. It seems to me if the
staff ought not be having to kind of guess whether a consensus
was established or not. It seems to me it is up to the group
and presumably up to the leader of the group at that point to
make clear if there is any question about it. Is there a
consensus or how many. Make it explicit so that staff doesn't
have to decide this is what the council wishes in any informal
way. I think that's occurred then we will get it done.
Nov/
I think we can do that. Next item on the agenda is whether
people want to go to a mayor council seminar in Coralville,
January 13. I assume everybody has seen this. We should send
our names in this week.
Kerr/ I need to know this week. It is-
Nov/ January 13 at Coralville.
Kerr/ 10:00 to 2:15. And if you will let me know afterwards, either
yes or no, then I won't follow up. If I don't hear from either
of you I want to follow up to be sure you have the
opportunity.
Nov/
We are saving a bunch of phone calls here. Another thing that
we ought to consider is whether or not we want to go to Des
Moines on February 28 which is a Wednesday and the Special
Legislative Day for the League of Iowa Cities, the Iowa League
of cities. I said that wrong. And registration fee, let the
City Clerk know if we want to go. The deadline is February 21.
Kubby/ I think it is really important to have some presence there
especially when rollback is going to be such a big issue. You
can put me down as a yes.
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Nov/ The drawback on that one is that it is a Wednesday morning
immediately following Tuesday night council meeting.
Karr/ That is tradition.
Nov/ That is tradition, right. We are going to move through it. It
is probably 9:00 in the morning. It doesn't say exactly but
approximately 9:00 AM.
Norton/ Does the weight of our numbers make any difference?
Baker/ Only in a fist fight.
Nov/ No. This is a good learning session. If you want to learn
about the issues that the League is concerned about. It is a
good informative session and then afterwards they spend some
time in the Capitol Building.
Karr/ Since we are talking about future meetings also, National
League of Cities, March 9-12. I need to find out who is going
so that we can coordinate that. Lorraine typically handles out
of state travel and as she will be retiring she would like to
get this taken care of. Also it does make a difference on
first choice of hotel rooms. So-
Atkins/ And budget adoption.
Karr/ And budget. Well, no that is already been moved.
Atkins/ To what?
Karr/ To March 5. It doesn't affect budget adoption. We cancelled
a meeting of March 12 and moved it to March 5.
Kubby/ Oh really. I am glad someone told us.
Karr/ It is in the memo.
Atkins/ I missed that one, too.
Norton/ Middle of March is left open.
Kubby/ Does that mean our informal is on the 4th?
Karr/ That is correct.
Kubby/ Will you get me another copy of that. Mine got lost.
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Karr/ I will do a revised schedule memo now that I know budget
sessions and everything. That would be easier, I think. Let's
just do another revised one.
Kubby/ A couple of other scheduling things. I made an appointment
to have a tour of the airport, both inside and outside. If
anyone would like to join me at 11:00 AM on Tuesday, January
9. Car me for car pooling. ll:00, Tuesday, January 9. I know
that might be a hard time. But if any two other people would
like to join me for a tour of the terminal and the grounds
unless it is snowing. Otherwise we can go but we will just be
going up and down the runways removing snow.
Nov/ If it is not snowing, I will go.
Kubby/ So, get a hold of me. And then Mary Sue Coleman, February
23, if someone wants to join me or have items that they would
like me to bring up. 9:00 AM. Probably only two other people
as well. Ernie you said-
Nov/ I should probably go to that. I will check my (can't hear).
Kubby/ Well, there can only probably be two because a couple of
(can't hear). I think Ernie, Naomi and myself. But if any of
you decide not to go or can't go, let us know because there
are at-least a couple of people and you can set up a second
meeting.
Nov/ While we are on that there is a reception this afternoon.
Everybody could go.
Kubby/ Who else said they wanted to go to the airport? So Dee- I
think we need some nicknames because we have two Dees.
Nov/ No, we only have to use last names in order to be clear.
Kubby/ Dee, can I call you Dee V.?
Norton/ You can call me Dee W., which ever you prefer.
Kubby/ Dee V. sort of flows out-
Norton/ Fine, she doesn't mind.
Karr/ The name plate. We can change them but do say Dee W. Norton
on the front if that makes a difference. It doesn't mean- I
was just thinking it might be helpful if for the public we
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could use the same names that people are being called here
would also help them. Not all the names.
Nov/ All right, anything else?
Norton/ Well, we didn't talk about boards and commissions
applications at all and I just wanted to raise the question of
whether we, given the central importance of the boards and
commissions, whether we need to think about the process of
recruiting applications or a process. As far as I can see we
have no general criteria for appointments or any specific
except in a few exceptions like HP. I don't know that we can
do anything about it now but I-
Karr/ We do have a policy that attached to a board or commission
application is a list of council members and home phone
numbers and applicants are encouraged to contact council
members individually. And that is a new policy just initiated
in the last two years.
Norton/ We don't have any particular list of criteria that people
have?
Karr/ No, must be Iowa City residents. But other than very rare
variations from that, no, we do not.
Norton/ (Can't hear).
Nov/ Some individual boards and commissions have-
Norton/ Yes, I understand they do. HP, for example, I understand.
Kerr/ So I assume each of you would like to continue that practice
in having the names and addresses and the contacts left on
there?
Kubby/ I guess the only other thing is we each got a new letter
from Ed Barker asking that we request that we look at a 15%
combined water/sewer rate increase with having the time frame
and I am assuming the only way we can do that is by decreasing
the cash accumulation which will extend the need for water
rate increases. And I just feel because someone asked us to
talk about to specifically direct staff to look at this that
we should either request that or not request that.
Norton/ I would certainly want to second that.
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Kubby/ I am not saying that I am wanting to direct that but I am
just bring it to us.
Nov/
I looked back at my file on Barker letter water rates, etc.,
and we did send a memo to Don ¥ucuis that listed all of the
set aside, including 10%, 15% and I felt once we listed all of
that and chose 20% it wasn't that we hadn't considered the
other.
Kubby/ (Cant hear). I mean I think there was some very specific
reasons we chose the time frame we did (can't hear) which
ended up dictating water rates and percentage increases.
Norton/ I have been one who would stretch it out a bit more. I
understand what the consequences are. But I just want to
spread the paying over longer time. You know, if you don't
have money, you have to do that with your house payments too.
You hate it, you just don't look at the total interest all of
the time. But, on the other hand you are getting five years of
people not getting much of anything out of the water works,
paying away. So I am trying to think of a- You guys may have
gone over very carefully and satisfied yourself with a 20% and
don't want to do anymore rehashing on it.
Nov/
Well, there was a unanimous decision on it. There was some
people who said we really ought to just go ahead and do it. We
should phase it in but we shouldn't do this cash set aside,
you know, phase in the construction. And there were others who
said cash set aside should be 15%. There was somebody else who
said 20% and 20% (can't hear).
Norton/ Isn't going to be- I would just like to ask, isn't it going
to be an onerous task for Don to give us those figures? Ed's
numbers don't give us the cash accumulation at the end of
those various periods and so forth.
Atkins/ We did it once before.
Kubby/ So you can just give people that information.
Norton/ Okay.
Kubby/ Maybe what we should do is instead of having all the
choices, just have the 15% and the 20% to help us focus our
discussion. How does that sound?
Norton/ Give 10 and 15. 10 on water and 15 on waste.
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Nov/ We can exclude the 5% which is another option that was in the
original-
Kubby/ We actually had a 25%. Do 10, 15, 20.
Norton/ I would also ask Don what the consequences of a shift of
one year in the big expenditure on the water plant. Moving it
one year.
Arkins/ Inflation, that is the biggest.
Norton/ That is a big step?
Atkins/ Oh sure. In 15-20 million and 2-3% inflation.
Norton/ But it makes a substantial difference in how the cost of
the whole thing.
Atkins/ ¥eah, the costs go up.
Lehman/ Well, it seems to me, we know that rates are going to have
to go up. I think we also know that we are not entirely
please, at least I am not and I am sure others are not with
the projected rate increases over the next five years. I do
think that we are going to take a look at them. My personal
preference is because we know we have to increase the rates
and because we also know that the bigger the increase up front
the smaller the increase at the end we would be very smart in
going ahead doing what we are proposing and then looking into
this at a later time when we have more time.
Atkins/ I don't mean to be- But we really don't have this item
noticed for discussion. I think if you are going to get to an
elaborate discussion about rates-
Kubby/ My purpose in bringing it up was to see if we wanted that
information. It is already available, we should just get it.
Atkins/ I can get the information to you. I might suggest that
Monday, the 8th, when we have our budget session, that is
clearly a time if you want to ask some questions about any
other information, we can do that. I just don't think tonight
or this afternoon-
Nov/ Steve, when you get to this issue on budget discussion, would
you find out if there is some way we can know if a specific
rate increase, be it 20% or whatever, is available in the
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breakdown.
the other
expense.
So much is due to the bond issue (can't hear). And
part of this is just normal increased operating
Arkins/ Okay.
Karr/ One final clarification. Council will be meeting then every
Monday and Tuesday, the month of January, either for budget
sessions or for regularly scheduled work sessions and formals.
Kubby/ All right.
Karr/ And I will send out a revised schedule.
Norton/ And what about the goal setting session? Are you looking
for a Saturday for the goal setting session?
Karr/ 'Goal setting session, again, is up to council. I think
probably what Steve will do is fine somebody and get to you
with some dates. If there was some dates that out of the
question ~n late January or February, why don't you let us- As
a matter of fact, let me know of any absences and that way
when we start looking at it, before we call around we just
know these dates are not going to work. That would be helpful.
Kubby/ And we should get to Lorraine for any travel plans that we
want in terms of dates for the League of-
Karr/ The National League of Cities is to Lorraine. I need to know
today or tomorrow on the Iowa League of Cities in Coralville
next week and also the Legislative Day, February 28.
Nov/ There is another one if anyone feels like going to stand on
the steps of the Capitol, January 17th, 1:00 PM.
Atkins/ That is also right after a council meeting.
Nov/ Yes but it is 1:00 PM rather than 9:00 AM. And the purpose of
that is just to demonstrate the importance of the issue on
rollback.
Norton/ Are we going to lie down on the steps?
Atkins/ You might. I am not going to.
Baker/ This isn't called a demonstration, is it?
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Norton/ A rollback, we can roll down the steps.
Nov/ Anyway, did everyone receive this? No-
Karr/ The L~gislative Bulletin. Probably, once I put the new people
on the mailing list, all the current ones. And then what we
will do is from now on we will see, you might get some crossed
off copies. But yes, you will be added to the mailing list.
Nov/
(Can't hear). This says copy and distribute and I just made
the presumption that everybody had it all ready and didn't
copy it.
Moved and seconded (Kubby/Lehman) we adjourn. All in favor say
aye (ayes).
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