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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-03-10 TranscriptionITEM NO. 2 page 1 #2 MAYOR'S PROCLAMATIONS Lehman/We have two proclamations tonight. Neither of the folks are here to receive them. They were relative to the American Red Cross and Mental Retardation Awareness Month. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 3 page 2 #3 OUTSTANDING STUDENT CITIZENSHIP AWARD Lehman/The next thing on our agenda is the Outstanding Citizenship award. Will the three students come forward please? These folks are from Lincoln Elementary. Why don't each of you read your statement, then we'll have the award. David Braverman/I'm David Braverman. I'm very honored to receive this award. I have enjoyed my time at Lincoln Elementary. This year has been great because I've been able to participate in newsletters, student council, and the safety patrol. I have great teachers who make class time a lot more fun for all students. I believe it's important to be dependable, responsible, honest, and to look out for those less fortunate. I'd like to thank the Lincoln staff and teachers. I would like to thank the city council for making this award possible. Edward Rosenquist/Okay, I'm Eddie Rosenquist. And thank you for this award. I was very surprised when Mrs. Hutton said that I won this award. I've been involved in many activities such as vice-president of the student council, one of the captains of safety patrol. These things take a lot of time, but not too much. Sometimes I play with some of the younger kids at recess. It takes a lot of patience and going with the flow or just doing what they want to play with them. Thank you for this award. Margaret Weirich/I'm Margaret Weirich. I'd like to thank my teachers for selecting me for this award. I don't know why I was chosen for this award when there's so many other students who do so much at Lincoln. I guess I think of myself as a representative for all the other Lincoln students who voltmteer their time on safety patrol and helping others. Thank you for this award. Lehman/We have for each of you an award and it reads as follows, and I'll read one and pass out the others. For her outstanding qualities of leadership within Lincoln Elementary as well as the community, and for her sense of responsibility and helpfulness to others, we recognize Margaret Weirich as an outstanding student citizen. Your community is proud of you. Presented by the Iowa City Council. Thank you very very much. This is part of the best parts of the whole council meeting. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 4 page 3 4/4 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED OR AMENDED. Lehman/The next item on the agenda is the consideration of the Consent Calendar. Moved by Kubby. Seconded by Thornberry. Consent Calendar this time includes a couple of things I think are worthy of note, more than a couple but two in particular. The council last year indicated an interest in a tenant to ownership program whereby we would be helping folks who live in assisted housing own that housing with some help from the city as far as down payment assistance and whatever. And one of those resolutions on the Consent Calendar is one of our tenants who has qualified for the tenant to ownership program. The second item on the calendar and Dee Norton mentioned this last night. Dee, why don't you go ahead. Just... Norton/Well I was just going to say it's the- we're setting a p.h. for the March 24, on the plans and specifications for the Scanlon Gymnasium, the expansion at Mercer Park of the aquatic center to add the gymnasium, a project that has a lot of private support as well as public support and it's a big occasion. Lehman/Yeah, it really is a lot of local money was raised to help build that, so those are two of several really important things. Any discussion by other council members? Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 4 #5 PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA). Lehman/Next item on the agenda is public discussion, and I realize there are a lot of folks here who'd like to speak about SEATS. I would like if we could to get those folks who are speaking about a topic other than SEATS to speak first. So if there's any one who has a comment for the council not regarding SEATS, we would take those first. Barbara Vinograde/Hi. My name is Barbara Vinograde and I'm the patient services coordinator at the Iowa City Free Medical Clinic, and I just want to spend a few minutes tonight letting you know what's going on at the clinic. As most of you probably know, the clinic is in it's 27th year of service to the community. This makes us one of the longest running free clinics in the country. The main people that we see at the clinic are people who do hold jobs, but many of these jobs do not offer health insurance. Sometimes people have jobs that do offer health insurance, but deductibles are difficult for the people to make. During the first six months of FY98, which was July 97 through December of 97, a total of 1278 people used the clinic. Of those people, 785 were Iowa City residents. Many people come back to the clinic more than once and the total number of clinic visits for those six months of FY98 was 1979. And again 1378 of those clinic visits were from Iowa City residents. Most of the people using the clinic services come for respiratory infections, for physicals both job and school physicals. iMany people come for gynecological exams, and in addition people come for sexually transmitted disease checks and dermatology problems. I've worked at the clinic for 5 1/2 years and the real obvious trend that I've seen in the time that I've been there is a very definite increase in the number of people coming to the clinic for chronic health care concerns, in particular diabetes and hypertension. I just wanted to give you an example of the increase. In 1992, the total number of clinic visits for people with a primary diagnosis of diabetes was 31. In 1997, it was 140. In 1992 the total number of clinic visits with a primary diagnosis of hypertension was 137. In 1997 it was 239. The most recent addition to the services that we offer to at the clinic is what we call the family practice clinic, and this is offered every Thursday morning between 9:00 and 12:00. It is staffed by family practice residents and family practice physicians, and this has been a really wonderful addition to the clinic in that it has allowed us to steer our patients with chronic health concerns toward this particular clinic where they are offered more continuity of care. In the five years that I've been at the clinic, in addition to the family practice clinic, we've added a dental clinic. We now hold five dental clinics a month. Our eye clinic in once a month and it is very well established. Mercy night at the Free Medical Clinic, the second Wednesday of every month, is very well established. We have two prenatal clinics a month. We have a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 5 dermatologist that comes in once a month, a physical therapist once a month, a dietitian who comes in as needed, and we also offer short term psychiatric services. So I think it's a really exciting at the clinic right now. A lot of it has to do with the addition of the services that I've just told you about. We couldn't do anything that we do without our wonderful pool of volunteers. We have a pool of about 250 people, and we really couldn't do what we do without them. In addition, we couldn't do what we do without the financial support that we receive and that includes the financial support that the city council has chosen to share with us. I want to thank you all very much for that continuing support. I'd also like to invite everyone down to the clinic, particularly the new members. If you'd like to come down, give me a call and I can give you a tour of the clinic and you can see us in action on a Monday or Thursday night. In closing I'd just like to say that even after over five years of working at the Clinic, I feel really grateful to be working for an organization that can offer health care to people who can't afford it and it really is quality health care and I am really proud to be a part of the organization. Thank you very much for your support and if there are not any questions, that is all I have to say tonight. Lehman/I would really second that invitation for council members to attend because it is very very impressive. I have never seen so much done with so little. You do a great job. Vinograde/Thank you. Kubby/Thanks, Barbara. Lehman/I understand from the Clerk, Miss Marian, that someone is here to receive the Red Cross Proclamation. I think this is very important, so we are going to back track just a minute and we are going to read the Proclamation for the Red Cross. (Reads Red Cross Proclamation). Betsy Tatro/I would just like to quickly thank the city council and the Mayor for proclaiming March as Red Cross Month. This is our 81 st year in Johnson County and we are a very important part of the community. We help in times of disasters. You will see our volunteers out there in the middle of the night helping people who have experienced a fire. Our CPR and First Aid Classes are life saving education for the community. We also do provide that emergency communication link for military families. When a military person is overseas, we provide that link so they can get the emergency communication. And finally, a newer service that a lot of people aren't aware of is our International Tracing Services where we help This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 6 individuals trace family members that they have lost contact due to war, disaster or other conflicts internationally. And particularly recently in the last five years, we have been working with family members who were separated due to WWII and the Holocaust and Iowa City being an international community, we have a lot of those tracings occurring. So, thank you very much. Lehman/Thank you. Okay, back to Public Discussion. Any other discussion not relative to SEATS? Okay, any discussion relative to SEATS. We would ask that you keep your comments to five minutes or less and sign your name before you speak. Christine Denberg/I am a resident of Iowa City. My mother, as you know, has been using the SEATS system for the past five years. In the last two weeks I have spoken to various council members, to county supervisors and I have read the budget proposal for the Iowa City Coralville para-transit, that particular document and I have also read the response prepared by SEATS. My feeling is that we all want to provide quality para-transit service in Johnson County. Right now, the city council is working on a $34 million renovation for the Iowa City downtown. To date, $50,000 has been spent on consulting for the downtown renovation. The final plans alone are estimated to cost $200,000. I wonder if you had given as much thought and planning to the SEATS issue as you have to the downtown renovation. Your para-transit proposal was prepared by staff and city transit employees. One, I believe, has the experience as a dispatcher and a driver with Cambus for two years. Another was an assistant manager of River Bend for four years. The para-transit proposal that your staff prepared neglected to include a computer for software that I was told by city council members was vital to an up to date para-transit service. It is also based on summary reports of rides that may not reflect actual needs. Those are just a few examples of some of the problems that were seen with the proposal. I know that this is a very complicated issue, one that has emotions running high, that may influence all of our judgments. I think it would be useful and cost efficient to hire an outside consultant. This consultant could provide ideas to improve SEATS, would be able to create an equitable allocation of costs between Johnson County, Iowa City and Coralville, would avoid the appearance of conflict of interest and help put an end to power struggles and would also alleviate many of the concerns of the community. Our business district isn't being torn down. It is being improved. Our existing para-transit service deserves the same kind of investment. Thank you for your time. Lehman/Thank you. Before our next speaker, Steve, would you give an update as to where we are compared to a couple of weeks ago or four weeks ago with SEATS. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 7 Atkins/There are several issues. Just last evening you suggested that we proceed in calling the first meeting of the committee to discuss issues associated with the SEATS project. On March 4, we received from the county information in response to the February 13 letter that we asked for information in order for us to respond to the preparation of the rural budget as you requested. Unfortunately, some of the information is rather sketchy and we intend to do another communication with county SEATS representatives in order for us to clarify a good bit of that information. One of the things that we have thought about is that as we prepare the rural component of the SEATS budget, it might make some sense to have us prepare one as well as the county prepare on simultaneously. And then they would have one, we would have one. Rather than trade memoranda, we would sit down and review and make sure that we incorporate in our proposal all the same elements that they incorporate in their proposal and I think then we can evaluate the merits of a unified versus potential for a separate system and in the letter that I send to the county, I will be making that request. We have also, when the issue was raised at your meeting before last, I believe, on the issue of joint governance, we have contacted a number of sources and we have about 11-12 examples of a joint governance process. We have not done a lot of the analysis yet but I wanted to present that to you. The question and answer format that you asked us to prepare is in its final draft. Hopefully we will have that before too long. And we are scheduled to meet on Friday with representatives of AFSCME to discuss employee issues. That is about it. Norton/Thank you, Steve. Eileen Cusher/I live at 840 Maggard. I have lived in this community for 20 years but for 18 of that has been in University Heights. So, I didn't feel I had a real voice here. I have moved over to the Iowa City side three weeks ago, so I now feel I have a right to come and petition you and also to speak with you. I have been disabled since 1979 and I walk at various times and at other times I do not. I have a bone disease in which my bones fracture easily. I have fusions, I have artificial joints, I have all sorts of things. Without SEATS, I would not have gotten out of my apartment for at times greater than six months. Now you are thinking about curb to curb service and cab service. They don't do it. Not only that, they have charged me to bring groceries home as cargo. They have literally left me in puddles of snow, ice and water in which I could not make my way without falling. I don't think that a great many of you have experienced what a handicapped person has to go through daily to get through their day. I don't think, except for one of you, that any of you have spent one day on that service. ! have never seen abuse of it. I haven't seen drivers sitting around. I have never seen abusive drivers, and you are basically asking to tear down a system that we have that works for an entire This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 8 county so that you can in some way form the managerial and money side of it, because you say, well we have the most riders here in this town. Well, unfortunately you don't have all of them. And you want to tear down a system that serves all of them. That does not quite frankly that does not make sense to me. the other thing is, you keep saying SEATS won't give me data. SEATS won't give me data. I can't get data. Well if you are doing such a good job, why do you need SEATS to give you data? Can't you get your own? Can't you collect it? Can't you make your own hypothesis and thesis statement? I'm hearing all the time, we need more data from SEATS. They don't provide it to us. Well quite frankly, my gut tells me that if you don't even know what the data is, I don't understand why you think you have the right to completely rip the system apart. I've lived in Kansas City, Des Moines, Chicago, one suburb of Chicago. And at that time even, I was mobile. But I would have used transit service had it been available. But the service was so bad, it was completely unusable. When I came to Iowa City, I found a transit service that worked for most of its citizens. It's being cut back. The area I live in now, I can't even get service from nine to three, because Seventh Avenue bus doesn't run there. I have to walk three blocks. I can't walk three blocks. On Saturdays, I get service. Another thing I've heard from the council on television is that from nine to three handicapped people don't seem to use the service. That's another bubble I'd like to break. Those of us who are handicapped, that's about the only time we go out. Before nine, nothing is open. Most of us are completely disabled and don't work. We have no reason to be out there before nine. Medical appointments are between that time. You shut down our vans during that time, we can't get to or from our medical appointments. And the same goes for any volunteer work that we may be capable of for two or three hours at a time. You shut that nine to three service down, we can no longer go out of our homes to have contact with other people. I see nothing here except almost a wish that you could do it for less, but I don't see exactly-as just the speaker sat down-I see no hard data that you can do it for less, and your supplying what data you get from the service you already use. That does not make sense. If you think you could do it for less, produce data that says you can do it for less. Produce the insurance that says you can do it for less. Produce trained personnel that can do it for less. I'm a nurse. I was trained as a nurse, and until 1979, worked that way. I still do tutoring and other things in nursing, but if you take an Alzheimer's patient on a van, or a cab, and you let them out at the curb and say, "bye", that person has no idea where idea where he's going or how he's going to get there, or who's going to take care of him when he does get there. Lehman/Eileen, I hate to interrupt you, but we,-we- Cusher/I'm going to finish, I will close This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 9 Lehman/Our proposal is door to door service, not curb to curb. Cusher/It's door to door service now, that's not what you originally had. Lehman/Yes it is, that all we ever talked about anything else. We've never talked about anything else, but go head it's okay Cusher/I'm sorry, I disagree. That's not what I heard. On, on your channel. That is not what I heard, it is not what I understood and ifI had that understanding, I'm sure others did also. And the other thing is, cab service will not give you the service that SEATS does. Lehman/They've been using cab service for many years. Cusher/And I would challenge all of you to fide that service, not just one day, but I would challenge you to get on it in a wheelchair. And get on and off in a chair and have to use that service and be dependent on those people for three days, and when you can than come back and tell me that their service isn't good, doesn't provide for the people, and doesn't do it adequate, and also a pretty cheap cost, then I will say fine I think your doing a great job by re-writing it. Until then, I cannot support it. Lehman/Thank you. Folks, try to limit your comments, we're really going to try to carry this discussion until no later than eight o'clock. So, in consideration of each other, try to limit your remarks-to five minutes or less. Penni Nolan/I'm Penni Nolan, and I live on East Washington Street. Iowa City Transportation Service is one aspect that attracts and keeps the people that come to Iowa City and surrounding areas. I'm speaking fight now especially of Johnson County SEATS. I've been a rider since the early 1980's. A large part of Iowa City, Coralville and Johnson County population is made up of senior citizens and people like myself who are somehow challenged and need care transit systems. This need will be even greater as we all get older and never know who will need a service like the one SEATS has provided for the last twenty-three years. We the consumers, providers, families, supporters, employers and people who follow these issues are the same ones who come on election day, who cast their votes to keep you in office or remove you. I think as voters we deserve the right to be listened to and to have considered what we want. I did not-did not- put much trust in what you say or tell us, having been told no-having been told no sure decisions have been made, and then hearing people talk amongst themselves that no matter This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 10 what we do, or how much support we have, we're not going to win. I've learned this from myself and from others that I've talked to. You tend to tell us the people wanting to keep SEATS with Johnson County and not be taken over the city one thing, maybe to pacify us, I don't know, then turn around and tell the newspaper and television reporters the exact opposite. I do not put my trust or the future of my transportation opportunities with the city, without a trial run with the experience and expertise of at least SEATS to fall back on. Should you vote to take over the care transit system and fail to provide what you promise, what do we have? SEATS employees are not going to sit around to catch you, or pick up the pieces should your plans fail, it is unreasonable to think they will train other city workers to take over what used to be their job. SEATS goes beyond the call of duty in their jobs for us, their consumers, because we have a mutual respect and loyalty for each other. You- the statement that if you could not provide the same quality and quality service that SEATS currently provides you, you would step down and drop the issue. Are you people of your words? I hope so. Lehman/Thank you. A1 Achtner/I've been asked to read a short statement to you. I've lived in Johnson County for over eighteen years, I'm employed by the American Federation of Government Employees, that's Federal Workers Union, we represent over six thousand federal civil servants in Iowa and adjoining states. However, I'm here tonight in my capacity of vice-president of the local Iowa City Federation of Labor (AFL-CIO), and organization that represents two thousand union members and their families locally. I live in Iowa City and I get around all sorts of different ways. I've got a car that I drove here tonight, I also regularly take the bus, I appreciate the bus service. I wish you would have raised the fare to a dollar, and not cut back the routes, and I also frequently use both of the taxi services. Earlier, I worked at the local social security office for five years. The elderly and disabled were my primary clientele, so I feel confident that I can tell you that the transportation needs of the elderly and the disabled cannot be met by taxi cabs. I've never gotten on to a city bus to find the driver smoking or the smelling, as if someone had been all day long and that happens to you in a taxi cab. I've never gotten on to a city bus, and had a broken seat spring pierce my jeans and cut into my leg, as is happened to me when entering a taxi. And normally I would have more respect of this body, and not wear such faded out jeans tonight, but I do want to show that's the hole that I got from a broken seat spring. Courtesy of Old Capitol Cab. I didn't do my evening a whole lot of good. I've never called a city transit office, and in response to asking when the next bus might come by, been rudely told in a kind of Brooklyn accent, I hope-trust nobody takes offense, look buddy, you want a cab, sit still and wait 'till we get there. Cabs are fine for getting This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 11 home on Saturday night from a bar. They are not the way for people in wheelchairs or people who are hooked up to an oxygen tank to get to the doctor's office. The Iowa City AFL-CIO is against dividing up a successful, integrated, county wide system of special needs transportation. However if some kind of reorganization is necessary, we could support this, so long as the service is continued as a publicly operate system accountable directly to you, or the Board of Supervisors, and operated by the current SEATS work force, and AFSCME 183. We are against the use of private vendors, who lack the training or sense of public mission, to deliver this kind of special needs service. The needy can't offer a tip, and they deserve to be treated as more than an expense. And we are doubly against the use of private vendors from outside the county, SEATS riders are our friends and our neighbors, and we want them to continue to be served by their friends and neighbors who operate SEATS right now, here in River City. SEATS is more than just transportation. For the elderly and the disabled, transportation needs cannot be met, unless their medical needs are integrated into the service. SEATS does this. Old Capitol, and Yellow Cab won't. When I worked at Social Security, part of my job was to take an inventory, through a personal interview of an applicants physical limitations and the help they needed in order to overcome those limitations, and perform daily tasks. I repeatedly had applicants describe how they needed SEATS to get around. Often to get to the Social Security office for their interview. The specialized service is both necessary and appreciated. Of course we all want to economize when we can. I pay the same taxes that you do. But it is not economy to throw out all the years of local experience, the training, the skills, the dedication and the institutional memory that is contained in the SEATS work force. Don't waste all that human capital that has already been invested in. The best way to economize, cut costs, and lower waste is to take your current SEATS staff, and AFSCME 183 into your confidence and ask them how the operation can be improved. I'm sure they have many ideas. That's what we've been doing in the federal government for the past five years. The vice-president's National Performance review recognized that the best consultants, and I take a front here to the suggestion made earlier, the best consultants you could ever hire, are the people who are people who are already on you workforce. Before the current administration, Reagan and Bush tried to battle the federal workforce to twelve years. There was litigation, not progress. Today the federal budget has been balanced. The federal workforce and the unions representing have played a major role. Earlier, I provided each of you a copy of AFGE's publication; Government That Works. But government cannot work by throwing the baby out with the bath water. In conclusion, the Iowa City AFL-CIO would like your assurance that what ever reorganization you may enter into, that the existing SEATS workforce will continue to work the services under the terms of their existing collective bargaining contract. Could I have that assurance? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 12 Atkins/Ladies and gentlemen of the council, you cannot give that assurance. We have a separate contract. Achtner/A separate contract with AFSCME? Atkins/Yes. Achtner/That could be a successor. Atkins/And it can be negotiated and that's the purpose of the discussion, sir. We cannot give you that guarantee. Achtner/That's what the AFL-CIO of Iowa City would like to see. Atkins/And that's occurring. Achtner/Any questions? Thornberry/One comment before(can't hear) your comments. I've heard several times this evening so far that cabs are not the way to go. The county has been using cabs for years. Achtner/I use cabs too, but I it's not the same for the handicapped. Thornberry/No, the county has been using cabs for para-transit rides for years. Kubby/At a very low level. Audience/(Can't hear). Achtner/There's a wide spectrum of physical limitations that. Norton/9,000 in 1996, weren't there? Cab rides. Thornberry/6,000. Norton/9,000. 6,000. Yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 13 Thornberry/6,000 rides that the county's been using through cabs. We don't anticipate on having, replacing the para-transit system with the cab company. That is not our intent. Achtner/I'm glad to hear that. Thornberry/I don't want that to be given as a fact just because someone has said it. It's not a fact. And we're not going to be starting to use cabs. They've been using cabs, like Dee has said, for years and years. And we don't anticipate in using them more. We thought that perhaps they should have the proper vehicles. Right now they have. Achtner/The sedans. Thornberry/The sedans that bite pants. If they had a para-transit vehicle to use, a non- smoking para-transit vehicle, wouldn't that be better than a sedan that they've been using for years? I don't know. Audience/(Can't hear) Achtner/Well, it certainly would be better and that's what you have fight now. Lehman/You've made your points very well. Okay. Achtner/Thank you, sir. Kubby/Although, I think where this comment keeps coming back to us about cab service is that the first set of scenarios of how the city might take over talked about having fewer vehicles on the road at any one time and that how we would make up those fides is by using the cab service more. So I think that's where it's coming from. The comments about the increase in cab service. Lehman/Let's not use up the public's time. So thank you again. Kubby/I guess I wanted to make it clear that it wasn't some piece of misinformation, it was stuff that came from us where that comment is coming from. Woman / Is there an amount in your budget that's set aside for cab service though, that's specifically? Atkins/Yes, ma'am. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 14 Woman/How much? Thornberry/There has been for years. Woman/How much money in your proposal is looked at for cab service? Lehman/$20,000. Atkins/Twenty. Two oh. Audience/Exactly what percentage of those rides. Thornberry/We're talking to the person at the podium, I'm sorry. Lehman/You have to come to the microphone if you want to talk. Marilyn Belman/I think, I use cabs, but then I'm able to if I'm not having a seizure, and I've talked to cabbies recently because cabbies have helped me when I've had a seizure. But I don't think that they should have to be the social worker. And I think, Karen, you said it once that they're not trained in some of the stuff in disability work. I think that sometimes there's more than they bargained for in dealing with those of us who have disabilities. And luckily the two times I had seizures in cabs, both guys were great, but you know I think there's a legitimate concern here with a lot of people whose disabilities you have to take into account. I think, I times my speech. It's only three minutes so, even though you've seen me before and I'm going to talk again, I'm Marilyn Belman. And one of the responses I had was just to compliment O'Donnell. I think some of us may look like we're pawns but we are trying to be advocates. We're advocating for what we feel is right. And I think that a lot of us who are out here feel very strongly, but I'm also willing to listen to other sides. And that's part of what I'm representing tonight. We went down to the library again yesterday, and that group that's there has people of differing opinions. And they're not all necessarily gung ho this or that. Some of them have reservations about what's happened. Probably some of the things that you've talked about, Councilman Thomberry. And so what they want to work I think is fixing the system. But I think what the gentleman just said, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water, is, I told Steve Singer, he stole my line, because that's what I was going to say, too. You've got a foundation. I look back at some of the speeches and some of the papers from 1994 and some things you said, Mayor, about even at that time. I think we've got a good system. I think we just have to have to work on things. And what I'm going to read is my This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 15 proposal that came from that meeting yesterday. We met from 2:30 to 4:30 at the library, so if you'll just indulge me I'll just read through it and I'll give you each a copy afterwards. Okay. It's from the People for Equitable Para-transit Services and the platform statement as follows. We, the People for Equitable Para-transit Services, recommend the following course of action concerning the para-transit issue now being considered by the Iowa City City Council. Number one has two parts. A cooling off and planning period from now until June 30, and since you guys are on a fiscal plan, somebody suggested 1999, or and this my preference because I don't think it's fair to keep everybody hanging, a three-year contract of unified system ofpara-transit. And I think that that is really preferable because a lot of people have been strung along for a long time. I know that drivers have been up and down about jobs. I know I went to one of the union meetings and I think there's a lot of, there's almost a feeling of immorality of the way people are treated. I think it's hard to get a director. I think you're going to be losing drivers and they're quality people. I think those are considerations you have to take into account. And so my preference would obviously be a three year contract. But I'm speaking for me. That's my opinion and the first issue you'll see that has both options here. II. Creation of an advisory committee having users of the para- transit system, both people with disabilities and the elderly, as a majority of its members. Input for membership should be solicited from organizations such as AMI, Goodwill, Systems Unlimited, Everet Conner Center, and AARP. Also Heritage Agency and Elderly Services. Both Rev. Welch and Jean Mann have helped us with a lot of the stuff that we've done, has been involved. And this advisory committee should be endowed with power to work with the city and county so that we have some kind of voice and some kind of clout to resolve the issues relating to consumer needs. III The design of a quality service would incorporate the following components: (1) door-to-door service, plus attention to personal needs as appropriate. I can't get into the house when I'm having a seizure, and even taxi cabs have helped me and I think a stranger would help me. So you need to take that into account. (2) well- trained, compassionate professional drivers familiar with consumer's needs. I'm not saying that SEATS drivers are the only ones who are like that but I'm saying that's what we've got now. And that's what we want to look for and emulate. If we've got them now, you know, hey guys we've got them now. (3) minimum reliance on taxi cabs. That means minimum. (4) And this is something that Ethyl Madison has looked into in the Waterloo Plan. A way of using taxi cab drivers for dealing with persons with disabilities and she said that there's a system there in Waterloo and she's been doing some calling around in different places to see if we can improve what the system is. And she works with Evert Conner also. (5) retention and this has come up over and over, retention of a unified system ofpara-transit, (6) establishment of procedures for dealing with grievances and problems. If there's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 16 something that's wrong, let's fix it, and then we can go on ahead keeping the quality that we do have and even improving it. This is Iowa City. You said once you love it. I love it. Let's make it even better. So that we've got good things. We've got a good Senior Center. We've got a good SEATS system. We've got a lot of things going for us. But if there's something wrong, we can work on improving it instead of saying throw it out or start over which I think there's too much to do. I think you've got a good foundation here. (7) education of consumers and community about para-transit services and disabilities. One of the things that I said at West High we have an awareness day. You keep heating, you guys keep getting it. I'm sorry you keep getting it to riding the bus, riding the bus. At West High we used to have an awareness day where people rode in a wheelchair for a day. They tried to learn what it was like for a day. Mayor, if you would just put aside a day one time in June where people had to feel what it was like to have a disability. You know it's be a great thing to do. You know, if you probably get a lot of this settled and Goodwill people and all the different agencies involved, you'd probably get a lot of people who would be willing to help educate people about disabilities because it is hard to know what it's like until experience it. Anyway education and also sometimes people who are eliminated in the exclusionary process where sometimes people who didn't know how to fill out the papers right. And so when things happen and the ADA came along, they just didn't know how to fill out the papers right and they got excluded. And there's some bitterness and resentment about that still about being excluded from SEATS. And then Casey, this is for you. Casey's at home because she's worn out. She's done a lot of work already on this. One call does it all. Instead of having several calls to make. And then one of the things that came up also was seven day full service. A lot of people, you go every place every day of the week. And so one of the things they said was not eight hours on the weekend, but some limited service on the weekend as well. Going to church. Going out shopping on Saturday aftemoon or something. Getting groceries. And so even if it's limited, something available on the weekend as well because a lot of them do work. I worked until the day before Christmas. And so a lot things affect us the same way it would you. IV. Recognize ADA guidelines as establishing a lowest level of acceptable practice, the lowest level, and not descriptive of the ideal system. They are the lowest. And what has happened is you took the highest amount that you could charge, $1.50, but a lot of the restrictions is what you stuck with and said okay we'll stick with these restrictions. You've got to think that naw, maybe we shouldn't be kicking some of those people out. Maybe we should look at this again. Maybe involve some people like the Evert Conner and say lets have an interview. One time I think, I think her name was Maureen Howe. And she said something about interview people about their disability to see if, what their needs This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 17 are about riding on the SEATS bus. You know, make sure that those needs are met. And then number V. Return the para-transit system's operation to a prior CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-40 SIDE 2 Actually seems to be more needs met before some of the ADA things happened including and this came up over and over at our meetings over at. the library. They wanted to revisit and a reconsideration of the eligibility requirement, okay. Thank you very much for your time. Lehman/Thank you. Nancy Ostrognai/You all know me. I'm Nancy Ostrognai. I'm going to make this short for you. I'm a person of Johnson County Coalition for Persons With Disabilities, and we had a vote last night and decided to support the continuation of county run SEATS program. Lehman/Thank you. Steve Singer/Three members of a Systems group home asked if I could read something for them and with the pressing time, I'm going to defer my comments to later in the evening if you see fit to be a little more flexible. I think there are a lot of people here who are hoping that you'll allow them all their democratic right in expression in this process because it's extraordinarily hard for these people to make, some of these people to make arrangements to come out on an evening to aid and staff to be flexible enough to help get them here, get them home, and take care of their living needs, and they've made a big effort and they're hoping that you can make the same effort. These three people, one is Vivian Hahn and she lives in a Systems group home on Deforest. Vivian says, I want SEATS to keep driving because they'll pick me up on time if I have a doctor's appointment or something or my feet will freeze in the cold weather. O'Donnell/I don't see Vivian, Steve. Where is she? Singer/Vivian Hahn is over here, and it's kind of hard for her to raise her hand, but she's right there in the purple shirt. Mike Nowachek is sitting right next to her. Nowachek/Hi. Singer/That's Mike. Mike says, to who it may concern, to whom it may concern, I Mike Nowachek would like SEATS driving to continue to pick me up and drop me off. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 18 To and from work or any other appointments. And the third letter which he banged out on his computer and let me tell you, it's an exhausting process, is from Darren Corkery. And Darren's the gentleman here in the beige coat. Kubby/There at the back. Singer/And Darren writes: (reads Corkery's letter). And I've got copies of this for (can't hear). And like I said, if you've got time for all these other people who've made the time, I think they'd really appreciate it. To cut them off when the last three council meetings have gone up to about 8:20 then obviously some people need to use the facilities, and then goes on until quarter of 9 or 9:00 and these people came down planning to want to speak and then you're telling them cold that they're going to have to stop in four more minutes, that's not democracy the way they think it's going to run. Lehman/Well the point is that public discussion is meant for input by the council to hear things that we have not heard, and I think we're very very anxious to hear new things. You know this is the fourth meeting in a row and I think we are very, you know we are genuinely interested in what folks have to say, but we do have a very large agenda. We have other business to do at the same time. We have no objection to hearing new things, and I think that's our job to receive input, but I think we are hearing the same thing again and again and again, and we appreciate the effort that's put forth but we do have other things to do too. Singer/I will tell you for my part if you get around to it, I've got something that you haven't heard before. But I will also say that the reason that you're hearing things again and again and again is because nobody out there thinks you're listening the first time, the second time, or the tenth time. And they want to keep saying it over and over and over until you make some reflection that you're listening. Leanne Mayhew/My name is Leanne Mayhew and I've been in Johnson County since '78. Just leave SEATS alone. Also Dean, have you rode the SEATS bus yet? Thomberry/No. Mayhew/When are you going to do it? Thornberry/I don't know if I will. Mayhew/If it wasn't for the SEATS drivers, a lot of us couldn't to (can't hear) last week, so just leave SEATS alone. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 19 Margaret Lawrence/My name's Margaret Lawrence and I've been riding SEATS since 1989 and I use it to get back and forth to my job every day. What I'm concerned about is that if it changes, I won't have the dependability that I have now, and the fact that the SEATS drivers are dependable. The dispatchers are dependable. My job expects me to get there just like everybody else's job expects them to get there. And you know that helps me lead more of a normal life. I also use it for shopping on the weekends and to lead some sort of a social life like everybody's entitles to. And what I'm very concerned about is when it changes, all of that is sort of going to slip away, and we're going to get to places late, not get places, you know, ride around for a long time period. You know you've got to do that to a certain extent and we do now because after all the bus doesn't pick up a person at a time. But you need to get places when you need to get them. The other thing that I'm sure that you've heard this about the taxis before, but I've talked to them and I see new ones all the time because I ride the taxis because I can get in and out with some trouble. So I ride it fairly often. I see new drivers all the time, so even if you do train them, which is good because they're going to need some sort of training in dealing with people who might have, I might have a seizure any time. I don't but I might have one. It makes me feel good to know that trained people like the SEATS drivers are there. But even if you train the taxi drivers, they come and go and they come and go and they come and go. And you're going to be spending money trying to train them. So I guess those two things are the things I'm concerned about is dependability and reliability and the fact that you can't train people the way these people have been trained. Thanks. Lehman/Thank you. Judy Dare/My name is Judy Dare. I work for the Visiting Nurses Association of Johnson County. I have ridden SEATS and I suggest all of you people ride SEATS. I've ridden it with clients. I've seen clients served by SEATS. It's a good system. I agree with Mrs. Bender that why can't you people get together with the county and improve this system, and to criticize something that you really haven't experienced, I think is an injustice. People don't just ride it to doctors' appointments. They use it to get to their jobs. They use it for social outlet. And it's sad to think that if you're in a wheel chair and you're 20 years old, I'm sorry, someone else is dictating where you can go and what you can do for a social life. That's all I have to say. Lehman/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 20 Don Schubert/Good evening. I'm Don Schubert. I'm a Coralville resident. I'm presently employed as a University of Iowa Hospital and Clinic Safety and Security officer, so tonight was kind of interesting for me to be one that's holding the sign rather than vice versa on another side of an issue. But I've heard a lot of comments tonight and I kind of come to you as a security officer from the University simply because I do have a lot of interaction with the SEATS riders and with the SEATS drivers. And admittedly, I've been a past SEATS driver myself. One of the things that I like about SEATS is their flexibility and particularly at the hospital when we do have patients that are trying to get back home from their medical appointments and unfortunately the medical appointment went a little bit longer than was supposed to which I think everybody's experienced and the flexibility that they show in trying to get those riders back home. I've listened to the comments tonight and simply stated I think the best thing you can say is SEATS simply works. Having been a driver was a lot of fun for me to participate as a driver, meeting the people's needs of getting better transportation to doctors' appointments, to the grocery stores, to wherever they needed to go, and get them back home safely. As a Coralville resident, the reason I'm here tonight is I will be happy to even go to the Coralville City Council and recommend that they continue in their participation with SEATS because obviously they are Coralville residents that utilize the service as well, and from what I can see of it, if I'm going to spend my tax dollars, I like to see my tax dollars to go to something that does indeed work and that's what government's all about, service to the people. Thank you. Lehman/Thank you. Intesar-Duncan/Hi my name is Intesar-Duncan and I spoke to you before. Mr. Mayor, I use, if you remember my issue, you said you were going to look into it. I don't see changes yet. The reason I am bringing this up again is because I had and also I had communicated with the city transit office twice last week about calling out the stops. And he's been mentioning about training and sensitivity and he seems like they are calling out the stops when the supervisor riding with them only. It's not happening 99% of the time. I haven't seen them. I know the had gotten those big mics that, extemal mics on the outside. I haven't seen it happening at all. My point here is I really would like you to leave SEATS the way it is because SEATS knows how to provide the service for each individual needs. I don't trust the city of these promises that it's not happening. It's not only a training they can give their people to do the service because they've been given training and training and training and it's not happening. This one small thing about calling out the stops they are unable, unsuccessfully to implant how you think you're going to be able to implant the service for all our different needs. I know you, since the city has This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 21 been getting involved, trying to make SEATS efficient, many many times by doing that half an hour, the calling, half an hour waiting, tiding longer, get away with holds, made the increase. They're as efficient as they could be and I think if you really look realistically to the figures that SEATS provide you, the director from SEATS, realistically with the quality it's not going, I mean I want to speak your language. You talk in figure. You're saying sir that it's going to, it's costing too much, SEATS running it. The city can cost less. It's not true. If you realistically reconsider and look a little bit closer to these figures and maybe like somebody mentioned bring somebody and outsider to look at these figures. If you're going to have to provide with the same service, the same quality, it's not going to be saving. It's going to be costing the city more if they're going to run it privately. Because we also want it to be unified, and SEATS it's a wonderful service. It's already great right there and I don't trust the city and I we're really appreciate it if you reconsider looking at what the city figure's giving you. One more thing about the cab service. I'm one of these people who can take the cab, have been put on cab every once in a while. I had many complaints about the taxi drivers. I'm going to bring two to your attention. One time I closed the door and I told the city transit, I called them to complain about that. Closed the taxi cab door on my thumb and broke my nail bleeding, big thing because the driver is so lazy, would not open or let me in or let me out awkwardly. I know I was a stupid. I should've not, but if it was a SEATS driver, will not let me do something like that. He's trained to know what he's doing. And other time in the evening when the SEATS office was already closed, I was put on a cab and they did not pick me up for a whole hour I tried to keep calling them. They were swamped so they decide not to pick up the phone, because they want to catch up with their things, with their riders. So I ended have to find a different tide in the evenings trying to somewhere, find out the next day that's what, oh, somebody I called from downtown had to walk to the office noticed what was happening. They were just not picking up the phone. They are not reliable. They are lazy. They are not to serve the individual disabled peoples. That's all I wanted to say. Lehman/Thank you. Larry Olson/My name is Larry Olson and I've been a SEATS employee for 14 years, 13 years as director and the past year as the part time driver. As a business person with a project to complete, would it concern you if a project you had planned came in $143,000 over what was estimated? If you knew before the project began, that this might be a possibility, I'm sure you would ask some tough questions to find out why the extra cost. The budget proposal presented to the council by city staff calls from an expenditure of $24,800 for a private contractor to provide supplemental service as needed. For Bumell Chadek, interim director of SEATS, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 22 estimates private contractor costs could be as high as $168,000, a difference of more than $143,000. The reason for this difference will explained later in my presentation. After receiving a copy of the budget proposal for Iowa City/Coralville para-transit on February 6, Burnell prepared a computer model of the reduced fleet of vehicles proposed by Iowa City. In a February 9 memo to the city council, Bemelle states on pages one and two, a model of Iowa City's proposed service indicates that a reduced fleet will not meet the current level of ride requests and that costs associated with supplemental service buy a private contractor are substantially underestimated. Ride requests for the week of January 18 through January 24 were used to model Iowa City's proposed service and compare their proposal to actual SEATS service during the same week. The week chosen represents a typical level of ride requests for week day and weekend. Same day cancellations for the week were higher than normal, about 13% due to bad weather. Same day cancellations typically run between 5-10%. The actual driver manifest presented in the bound packet represents service as originally scheduled. Likewise the driver manifest and cab referral sheets as modeled for Iowa City's proposal include actual requests for the week. Note that SEATS scheduled about 525 vehicle hours for the week but because of cancellations, the actual number of vehicle hours was reduced to about 500. The model for the proposed service is based upon already existing routes for the week. The start times and end times adjusted as appropriate in order to model the level of service provided by Iowa City 375 vehicle hours per week. The routes in the model are efficient and are slightly overbooked and would not be feasible without having some same day cancellations. The ride requests that would not fit on a proposed fleet are given to a private contractor to provide. A comparison of actual service as scheduled by SEATS vs. the model for Iowa City's proposed service forms the basis for assessing the accuracy of Iowa City's proposed budget for para-transit service design. Bemelle's memo also states, Iowa City's proposal budgets $24,800 for para-transit service provided by the private contractor. How was this figure estimated? The model of the proposed Iowa City/Coralville para-transit system shows that 462 fides will need to be dispatched to the private contractor during the course of the week. That is the number of ride requests that just won't fit anywhere on the proposed number of vehicles in operation. Using Iowa City's estimate of $7 per taxi ride on average, 462 fides per week at $7 each for 52 weeks equals $168,168 for costs associated with a private contractor. Same day cancellations will reduce this expense somewhat but the total cost is far higher than the $24,800 Iowa City budgets in its proposal. With 450 plus fides per week, many involving wheelchair use, the supplemental service provider will most likely need a large fleet ofpara-transit vehicles to keep up with their demands. How will this affect the cost? Because a substantial fleet will be required consisting of buses capable of doing many simultaneous pickups involving This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 23 wheelchair users, it cannot be expected that the same fee structure that Yellow Cab utilizes will be in place. A para-transit fleet is more expensive to operate and the private contractor will most likely need to charge more per trip than they currently do. Now my questions to you are, has your staff provided you a thorough analysis of this information provided by Bernelle to guarantee you the 462 rides during a week can somehow be magically squeezed onto many fewer buses while continuing to provide the same or better quality service? And does it concern you that your proposed budget for supplemental service by a private contractor is drastically lower than what will be needed? If your answer is yes to my second question, what tough questions have you been asking your staff to ensure the system as proposed will save money and meet the demand with fewer vehicles. If your answer is no, why doesn't it concern you that your system could cost $143,000 than your proposed budget. You are moving ahead with a project and telling the taxpayers of Iowa City your proposed system will save them money, but actually your system will cost them several thousand dollars more. Thank you. Lehman/Thank you, Larry. Steve Singer/Hi. I'm Steve Singer and I drive for SEATS and I live at 360 Samoa Place in Iowa City. You're concern that we keep repeating the same things over and over, yet in the paper and in council meetings, a variety of councilors keep repeating certain things over and over. Sunday's gazette quotes Mike O'Donnell as saying that members of, we at SEATS are responsible for scaring our riders with false or misleading information, but when I listen to my riders, I'm heating something else. What scares riders is after six weeks of discussion, you still have no plan of operation. What scares riders are continuing statements by the city manager that he has not received adequate information from the county when he has in fact received reams of information, minutiae that you couldn't even begin to process in the amount of time that you've received it. What scares riders is public statements by city council that you don't need planning assistance from SEATS because you can rely on your own para-transit experts. What scares riders is that you are willing to turn your back on 20 SEATS employees who have over 200 years of experience working with this population. What scares riders is that you are willing to put your faith and their lives and I'm not talking about life or death lives, I'm talking about their existence, their independence, their dignity, their lives in the hands of two men who between them have less than four years of experience with para-transit and none of that experience with this population. But you know I've also been told that none of this matters by two of you. Because this isn't about money. And this isn't about service. I've been told that this is about politics, stuffI wouldn't understand. Well I do know that politics is the art of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 24 compromise in the pursuit of self interest. So I look at this and wonder, who does this council represent? Whose self interest is being served? And I give you one example. Dean Thornberry, you operate a Burger King on Boyrum Street in between Highway 6 and Highland. We know the city just completed a major public works project there putting in new storm drains and vastly improving traffic flow in the area of your store. We also know that this cost Iowa City taxpayers $707,635 that came out of General Obligation funds paid for by my house taxes. Okay. So we do know in part what Mr. Thornberry is getting out of politics and we know that your self interest, at least in this one case, is being served. Lehman/Steve, you aren't going to attack individual council people. Singer/This is a matter of public record. Lehman/And that was an irrelevant statement. Singer/This is a matter of public record. Lehman/I realize that, but this is not a forum that we use to attack individuals. Singer/There is no other forum to talk about public expenditures and that's highly relevant. Thornberry/Steve, I would like to reply to the statement that you just made. Singer/When I'm finished. Thornberry/When that road and it wasn't Boyram, it was Highland. Singer/Both. Thornberry/There was no work done on Boyrum Street. I was there. I saw it. It did nothing but hurt my business for two to three months solid. I wish they hadn't done it. I did not ask for it and I got on this city constantly for the length of time it would take because it was hurting my business so badly. It was not for me. It was for the people on Highland. They did not work on Boyrum Street. Atkins/That is an absolute distortion, Steve. That project was planned to handle flood control problems for that whole neighborhood. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 25 Singer/Sure. Atkins/Whole neighborhood. Singer/Nevertheless, it does benefit one of you very specifically. Thomberry/It does not benefit me. That's a fact. Lehman/Steve, I don't think you're helping your cause a bit in comments like that. I really don't. Thornberry/I don't have to sit and listen to it. Lehman/Well I really think that serves no purpose whatsoever. Singer/Can I finish? Lehman/Certainly. You may finish if you're going to keep it non-personal. Singer/I think that if politics is also the art of compromise, I also have to ask, who's getting compromised here. And I think it's obvious that the riders of Iowa City are getting compromised. I think the drivers and dispatchers at SEATS who work hard to earn a living wage and get medical benefits for our families are getting compromised. I think as Larry pointed that the taxpayers who are about to lose one of Iowa City's best features are getting compromised. And I just want to say because you are voting on the overall budget because you have to send it to state today that a vote today for this budget without your expressed reservations over the takeover of SEATS is a vote for people who are not in this room, people who are not the riders, people who are not informed taxpayers pure and simple. So take your vote. Show us your politics. But don't sit there and tell us about equal or better service for lower cost, when according to your own budget estimates, it's just not going to happen. That's all I've got to say. Thanks. Lehman/Okay, we're going to take one more, then we're going to take a break. Anthony Christianson/Okay. I will not take up much of your time at all really, because a lot of what I could say is already been said many times over. I was just wondering, you mentioned earlier, Mr. Mayor about you have other projects going on. This downtown renovation comes up. I'm sure maybe that's a need. You try to keep businesses in town with this big mall coming to Coralville. I also know there's this new Scott/6 project going on. Do you by chance at all foresee getting This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 26 anywhere close to establishing anything said at all as a far as the SEATS program by July 17 Lehman/I really don't know. I really don't know. I think we're so early in the process that would be unfair for us to make any statement until we know at least know what we're talking about. Christianson/Do you think there's still enough time, I mean? Lehman/I don't think there's anything magical about July 1. Christianson/That's just a date that happened to come up. Lehman/I think we started with that date. I mean that was a target date some time ago. Whether or not that's still a target I think is totally irrelevant. I don't think if we do it, then I think there's a question, but if we do it, I have no idea when it will be. And that is part of the planning process and putting the thing together. So I think that's a ways away before we can come up with anything. Christianson/Okay, because I'm not holding anybody here as having said there is, we're going to get all this money and all the other things done by this date. I just ask that because that did, I saw it in the papers proposed take over by July 1. And I'm not even concerned with who made the statement. Lehman/I don't think that's accurate at this point. Christianson/Okay. Also with the idea of taxi cabs service, I'm not exactly enthralled with the service either, having been told by Yellow Cab that my very address doesn't exist, I know that may not be the most excellent example. That did happen. A guest in my house called the service and the day dispatcher said that that house doesn't exist at all. So I am, according to their standards, I'm living in a limbo here. So I was wondering have you even given it that much thought that only so much, it would only be so much who would use the taxi cab services? I remember, I recall Councilman Thornberry quoting about 6,000 rides last year, but I may not use these but I was beginning to suspect that probably represents maybe a small fraction of the total amount of rides that were used. And you know that was by some of the, some of the people like whom were speaking earlier, so gentlemen ! just ask you as many other people asked you. I don't work for SEATS. My friend Penny Nolan who spoke here earlier does, has ridden SEATS for awhile and I think she's one of those qualified to talk about the benefits of the service. I'm sure maybe you've taken it into mind by just, if you plan to keep the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 5 page 27 same service or looking into doing that much at least. At least I myself would feel a little bit more assured that this is not, I'm not saying, I'm not looking at this at all that you were planning to yank the rug out from underneath their feet and leave them hanging because I don't think that's going to be the case. Lehman/You're exactly right. Christianson/So, if you do plan to at least keep as close to this kind of service and not cut any cost as far as that is concerned, I would find more assurance in that. I'm not looking for any guaranteed statements right now or looking forward to anything anything like that in any papers at all. So that is all I have. Thank you for your time. Karr/Sir, Could I have your name for the record please? Audience/One brief question and then I will go. Karr/Excuse me. Could I get his name first? Christianson/My name is Anthony Christianson, Ma'am. Karr/Okay. Thank you. Christianson/You're welcome. Eileen Cusher/You mentioned that you know, tonight we have a lot of business and things to move on to. This concerns all these people lives and mine. And when you can't even listen to us for a period of greater of one hour, I find it difficult that you have our best interest at heart. You can't listen to our concerns. You can't listen to what we're telling you. We already have and that it works. And the only person who is supposed to be negotiating with all of us and the county can't even stay in the room because he feels so offended, and I find that terrible. Lehman/(Can't hear) take a break. Eileen Cusher/Okay. I'm going to leave anyway. [Council Break 8:25 to 8:35 PM] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6a page 28 #6a Consider a motion setting a public heating for March 24 on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation on a 4.46 acre tract located at 500 Foster Road from Interim Development Single-Family Residential (IDRS) to Sensitive Areas Overlay-8 (OSA-8) to permit 35 dwelling units and approving a preliminary Sensitive Areas Development Plan. (REZ97-0011) Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Norton. Discussion. Roll call- Motion. All in favor- (ayes). Motion carded. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6b page 29 #6b Consider a motion setting a public hearing for March 24 on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation on approximately 41 acres located between Lower West Branch Road and Court Street extended, approximately 4/5 miles west of Taft Avenue from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) for 29.1 acres and Low Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-12) for 11.9 acres. (REZ97-0019) Lehman/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion. All in favor- (ayes). Opposed- Motion carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6c page 30 #6c Consider a motion setting a public hearing for March 24 on an ordinance changing the zoning designation on approximately 24.12 acres from Interim Development (ID-RS) to Sensitive Areas Overlay-5 (OSA-5) and approving a preliminary Sensitive Areas Development Plan for property located at the east terminus of Hickory Trail. (REZ97- 0007) Lehman/This is an area that is in the northeast area. An area which we are going to be looking at rather closely in the next couple of weeks for completing the Comprehensive Plan in that area. Do we have a motion? Moved by Norton, Seconded by Thornberry. Discussion. Kubby/It is just important to note that both the Commission and staff have recommended denial of this request but we want to hear from the public before we make our decision. Lehman/All in favor- (ayes). Opposed- Motion cartes. Norton/I may be a little bit out of order but I want to say that the previous motion, too, involves a really big change in an area there on the east side. That is another- All of these public heatings, all three of them that we have set so far have raised important issues. I hope we get a turn out. Lehman/And I guess sometimes you go through setting the hearing process rather quickly and it not to discount the fact that they really are very important heatings. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6d page 31 #6d Consider a motion setting a public hearing for March 24 on an ordinance approving the preliminary OPDH plan for Walnut Ridge, Parts 6 and 7, a 66.68 acre, 20-1ot residential subdivision located at the north terminus of Kennedy Parkway. (REZ98- 0001) Lehman/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Kubby. Discussion. All in favor- (ayes). Opposed- Motion carries. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 32 #6e Public heating on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article E, "Commercial and Business Zones," Section 2, Neighborhood Commercial Zone (CN-1) regarding size restrictions on restaurants. Lehman/This amendment is to change the present CN-1 ordinance to make the size of restaurants relative to the occupant load rather than the square footage. The p.h. is open. Anyone has any comment on this, will you come forward now. John Streit/I am general manager of Mid-Town Family Restaurant. I have been trying for three years to get a restaurant built on Scott and Court. I was approved in 1996 for a building permit and then they found out it had a basement. I just don't understand why I can't have a basement. I was approved for 3,376 square feet. Nothing has changed. I have been to Board of Exceptions twice. I have talked to Karin Franklin, Scott Kugler, and other people in the Inspection department and they always tell me, well, why don't you go down to A1 Streb. He is building down there. You could get a piece of property there with no objections. Or Tom Alberhasky has some property over by Sycamore Mall, you know. That is not what I set out for. I like the area and the people and this is a neighborhood restaurant. I am not a fast-food restaurant, not a fine dining restaurant. I am a neighborhood restaurant. I have been in business in Iowa City for five years. I am now out in West Liberty exit which is a far cry from where I really want to be. Iowa City people have been good to me and I have taken care of them as much as I can and I just don't understand. Everything is approved. For three years I haven't changed a light, I haven't changed a parking place, I haven't changed 127 seats. I haven't changed anything and they just keep telling me, no, you got to go here, you got to go there. Why don't you go down the road and buy another place. Why don't you go to another area. I don't- You know, I am asking you. Lehman/Well, this amendment, if it passes, would enable you to do what you have been trying to do. In other words, it would change the zoning requirement for a CN-1 zone. The size of the restaurant would be based on occupancy rather than just square footage and this is where we run into a glitch and anytime I think you write an ordinance, you have to use certain standards and they don't always apply equitably. And I think this is a situations where the ordinance as written certainly prevented you from doing what you wanted to do and in analyzing this, I think staff and also the P/Z Commission, at least by their recommendations, have agreed that there should perhaps be some change in that regulation so that the sort of thing that you want to do could be accomplished. Kubby/Although this amendment wouldn't allow you to have the restaurant by right. But it would allow you to go back to the Board of Adjustment to get a special This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 33 exception because the occupancy load amendment that we are talking about is 100 people and your restaurant is 127. But the amendment would allow you to go back and they would look again at how your restaurant would fit into the neighborhood with that occupancy load that you want to do compared to with what the code is written at 100. They would look at that 27 people difference and say, would it cause a burden on the neighborhood. Streit/Well, you know, there is two restaurants, I got a list of four restaurants, that I class restaurants in the CN-1 zone. One has 135 occupancy and I have approved for 127. If we compromise at 130, you know, wouldn't there be any problem with that. Kubby/In my mind it would be a problem because if we made an amendment to the amendment, to go from 100 to 130 would allow restaurants by right without having to go through any public process that are that large to automatically go into this commercial neighborhood zone and I would have a problem with something that big going in without the assurance that is provided by this Board of Adjustment process of special exception. I would like to be at 85 but I have been convince by convinced by some of your arguments and from council arguments and P/Z that 100 would be acceptable and that over 100 would be acceptable if people went through the Board of Adjustment to make sure that the neighborhood wouldn't be negatively impacted. And they have made a determination already that the way you have things configured wouldn't have the negative impact on the neighborhood. So. I don't see why they wouldn't do that. Again, that that decision is not mine to make. Norton/John, you have 127 seats. Are they fixed or movable? Streit/They are movable in booths. Norton/And you have some kitchen space. How much kitchen space did you say you have in the upper storage, not in the basement? Streit/1200 and some square feet. Norton/So actually if they go by 127 is the seating area, then there would be a few, maybe 10 more, to count the storage and the kitchen area. Kubby/To figure the occupancy. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 34 Norton/So those would be maybe more like 137. Still, it would come in under a special exception. I don't- Right now, I don't see getting that high as a matter of right. Streit/I don't understand what you say. Norton/We are going to meet again with P/Z. The occupancy load counts people in the seating area plus so many per storage area and so many in the kitchen. I think 1 for every 200 feet in the kitchen and 1 for every 300 feet in the storage. Lehman/I would- Bob, would you like to comment on this? Have Bob Miklo explain this. This is far more familiar to him and maybe he can put it in terms that we can understand. Miklo/ Under the proposal, rather than basing the occupancy on just the square footage, the Building Department would look at the square footage of the seating area and the occupancy there is based on 1 person per 15 square feet. They would also look at the kitchen area and the occupancy load there is based on 1 person for 200 square feet, storage area is 1 person per 300 square feet. So all of those would be looked at to see whether the restaurant fell within 100- Or came up with 100 occupants or less. If it was over then the Board of Adjustment would look at it and look at the parking, the design of the building, how it fits into the neighborhood. Lehman/Let me ask you and I think Karin indicated last night, she felt that the proposal that we had earlier probably would be approved by the Board of Adjustment with this amendment to the ordinance and I know there is some interest on the part of some council folks in changing that number from 100 to 130. I guess I would like you to give us the pros and cons of doing that. You know, what would we gain and what would we be giving up or losing by doing that? Miklo/The 100 was- An occupancy level of 100 was based on our previous standards which were based on national statistics that showed neighborhood restaurants were generally 2,500 to 3,000 square feet and most of them had an occupancy load of about 100 persons. That is the information P/Z considered and they looked at the range of 85 to 100 persons and felt that 100 was flexible, it was at the upper end of the range based on the studies that staff had done and on national statistics. So they chose 100 realizing that there would be flexibility in the ordinance, that it would allow restaurants over 100 with the special scrutiny of the Board of Adjustment. You are basically setting a threshold. If you choose to adopt 100- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-41 SIDE 1 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 35 Miklo/You could draw it at 130 and if you are comfortable with the idea that a restaurant with 130 occupants is an appropriate level in a neighborhood. I would point out that the one restaurant that there was some reference to, Jimmy's Brick Oven, has an occupancy load of 135 indoors and then another 60 outdoors. That did have a special exception or did go through a special exception process. Lehman/What would be or is it possible to know what would be, if the 100 person occupancy were allowed, do we know what would be the maximum? I mean, could the Board of Adjustment allow 200, for example? Miklo/That would be done on a case by case basis. Lehman/Is that a possibility? Miklo/It is a possibility. Certainly if the applicants make a convincing case that a restaurant with 200 occupants is reasonable for that particular neighborhood. Lehman/What you are saying is this gives us the flexibility to allow a person who wants to do this, if they go over the 100, to go in and then go through the scrutiny of the Board of Adjustment and say yes, the 130 is good or 150 is good or 175, that is just too many. Miklo/Right. Lehman/That is an act of the Board of the Adjustment. That is a judgment call from them depending on the situation. Miklo/That is correct. Norton/Ernie, I would like to make a point. If there is sentiment on the council to consider a number bigger than 100 for the occupancy load for routine provisional approval, I would think we surely owe it to the P/Z to meet with them and it might be desirable to meet with them before our next meeting, if it is possible, to see where we stand on that issue, whether 100 is right or 120. John situation would now be 137, counting his space in additional to seating. So- But the other one I say is 135 already plus some outside. So it is a precedent of some kind there depending on the particular situation. But I just would not want to arbitrarily go over that without talking pretty carefully with P/Z. I went to their meeting and listened to their debate and they have some questions, uncertainties. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 36 Thomberry/I think, Dee, your point is well taken. But if you are going to meet with people, why don't we also meet with a group of restaurateurs? They seem to know more about size of restaurants, what fits, what doesn't fit and as far as the size is concerned, I have been looking at the footprint as to what the restaurant size would look like in a neighborhood and if it is way too large, just by the footprint of it, I don't care if it had 20 seats in it. If it was a huge huge thing, like the highlander for example, it wouldn't necessarily- It it had- And it met all of the rest of the criteria- Norton/I am still talking about the fact that traffic, the range of which- They are talking about the general traffic and general congestion that you put in a relatively residential neighborhood. That is all. It is just a matter of reasonableness. Thornberry/This particular restaurant site that we are talking about, that Mr. Streit is referencing, is currently surrounded by 246 existing apartments and townhouses and has a possibility of being surrounded by an additional 60. That is 548 people within walking distance. Norton/I understand but the question is traffic that is drawn from well outside the neighborhood. I take it the bigger it gets, the more it tends to do that. Thomberry/If I had 548 people within walking distance of my restaurant and townhouses and stuff around there, I would need a bigger seating capacity also even though it would possibly fit in this neighborhood zone. So, this is just a public discussion and at the next meeting when we do vote on this, I will be proposing to increase the size to 130 instead of 100. Lehman/Dean, let me say this. If we are- We are having the p.h. now. If we choose to amend this, that will need to be done before we close the p.h. In other words, if we have the p.h. on 100 and we close the p.h. tonight, we cannot at the next session, we cannot amend that without another p.h. Isn't that correct? Dilkes/That is right. You would have to reset it. Lehman/Wait a minute. It may be important to- for folks concerned here that we move this thing along rather than continuing the p.h. for two weeks, making an amendment, going back to P/Z which I agree with you, Dee. I think that- Kubby/We have an obligations, a long standing policy that when we disagree with P/Z, that we meet with them about our disagreement. So we could do all of that, I believe. We could continue the p.h. until the next meeting, meet with P/Z at our This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 37 informal and have the first consideration on the same agenda. If we chose to defer first consideration, we could. But it is set up to move quickly. Lehman/And I think the question then becomes-is it more important for this to move along in a timely fashion or is it more important for us to continue the p.h. to offer the amendment that you are suggesting, Dean, then send it back to P/Z and perhaps not be back to us for a considerable period of time. Norton/I would say follow the procedure Karen has outlined there, yeah, why not? Thornberry/We could continue the open discussion until the next meeting and then vote on having first consideration. Could we amend it at that time? Lehman/We could do that. However I believe that we would, as a courtesy, if nothing else, send it back to P/Z for their comments on the 130. Norton/Why not meet with them and discuss that issue? Streit/Could I say something? Lehman/Yes, please. Norton/It is a p.h., right. Streit/While you are throwing all of these seatings out, 130, 300, I don't give a damn. You know, if you have 130 seats in a restaurant, if you have 70% of it filled, you got a full restaurant. You know, you don't even have 130 people in the seats. You don't have 137 like you are saying. Norton/No, no, I understand. That is a consideration. I have already taken- I prefer 80% but 70%. Streit/That is what I don't understand, you know. Explain this stuff to me. Lehman/Let me just explain this to you, at least as I understand it. If we choose to change this from 100 to 130 and there is some thinking along that line, this would require us to continue the p.h. for two weeks. We would then make the amendment and in the meantime, talk to P/Z Commission. It is conceivable that this process could take an addition-a minimum of two weeks. It could be an additional six or eight weeks. I don't know. I guess I am going to ask you how important is time? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 38 Streit/I would like it done tomorrow, you know. Hell, I have been trying to do it since 1996. I guess whatever you have to do. Lehman/If you want to accommodate what you are trying to do and what P/Z recommended and what the staff is recommending, we can have the p.h, close the p.h., vote on it the next meeting and you can proceed with what you would like to do rather than having this process go through another 2, 4, or 6 weeks. Now it will mean, that in your case, it will be a special exception. But it will be something you can do that you have been prevented from doing in the past. Streit/I think I would rather let you get the full council and decide what the hell you want to do. Lehman/You would rather us continue the p.h.? Okay. Norton/We can accomplish everything without delaying, Ernie, I think and still meet with P/Z and take action next time, change that number if we can work that out if that is the consensus. I don't think we need to delay anything. Lehman/No, but I hear him saying that it what he prefers to do. Norton/We don't need to delay. Kubby/On the other hand, we are making a land use decision. We are not making the decision about this particular restaurant and we have to hold back from the specifics. That is our job here. To say what is best for this particular zone because it is not just a general commercial zone. It is a neighborhood commercial zone. It is a different creature and it is a kind of a new creature for us and so we have had some amendments. I mean Bruce has brought many things to us with problems with it and some of the things we have changed and this may indeed be another one. But we can't cater it to one restaurant. That is not our job as policy makers. It is important to hear the specifics but that is not the only thing we need to base our decision upon. Streit/Which is the fastest process? Kubby/The one that I outlined I believe is the fastest and most flexible. Streit/You know, I have had the previous two mayors come down, one of them come down to my restaurant and I was absent and told my wife, why don't you find This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 39 someplace else. Susan Horowitz I think was her name. And then Naomi called me one day and I talked to her and I said you know, what do I do here? You know, I said I got the petition with 750 people. They would like the restaurant there and that. Her response was well you know public opinion. You're at an age of public opinion. You know by now that doesn't make a damn bit of difference. You know. Atkins/Naomi wouldn't say a thing like that. Kubby/We know that. Streit/All I want to do is build a restaurant. I want 1292 square foot basement, you know. I have had no objection from the public. The only people I get it from is the building, Karin Franklin's department. I am at now- I want to know what I got to do to get it done. Kubby/We are moving ahead. Lehman/Well, I think we are in the process. Streit/Thank you. Lehman/Yep. Kirsten Frey/I am an attorney here in Iowa City and I represent Plum Grove Acres who is the landowner where Mr. Streit proposes to build his restaurant and I believe I wrote a letter to council last week and I would like to ask that council consider accepting that correspondence. But in my remarks tonight I'd like to briefly summarize what I had in that letter so for the benefit of the public and for those council members who haven't had an opportunity to read my correspondence. You have an-before you, a proposed ordinance that we've been discussing dealing with the use of an appropriate re-size of a restaurant in the commercial neighborhood area. I'm hear to urge your favorable consideration of this proposed ordinance. In its report, the Iowa City staff asked you to keep in mind the use-the needs of the community at whole, and council member Kubby has also seconded that need that we need to look beyond the need of a particular restaurant owner and what's good for the community as a whole. Well, I certainly second that concern, I think that looking at Mr. Streit's restaurant, or proposed restaurant is a perfect example of why this ordinance does need to amended. The record that you have before you points out that in 1996, there was approval of a special exception for a restaurant with 3,376 square feet, and 35 parking spaces, with eleven parking This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 40 spaces land banked. When a building permit was sought based on this special exception, the building department noticed that there was a basement in the restaurant, and as a result they determined that it exceeded the 3,376 square foot approval of the board of adjustment, and denied the building permit. A new special exception request was filed, including the area of the basement in the square footage calculations. This was the only change in the application. The parking was the same, and the design of the restaurant was the same. The second application was denied, despite the fact that the number of tables and the people served in both restaurants was the same. The restrictions in the CN-1 zone are designed to insure that the commercial use is compatible with the neighborhood. That's how I understand the purpose of the CN-1 zone. We're supposed to make sure that the commercial use isn't too intensive for the neighborhood surrounding residential properties. In this case, the impact on the neighborhood between the first special exception application and the impact on the neighborhood on the second special application were exactly the same. Same number of tables, same number of parking spaces, same footprint of the building, the only difference was the size of the basement. I've thought about it for a long time and can't think of any reason why the inclusion of a non-public basement space would negatively impact the community. As a matter of a fact the only impact I can see is a positive one. If you have a bigger basement for storage, your truck carrying supplies only has to come once a week as opposed to every day because you can store more supplies in your basement until they are needed. Given the goals of the CN-1 zone, and the restrictions on the commercial uses they're in, the use of the occupancy load requires simply makes more sense. It's a measure of the impact on the community. How many people are going to be in the restaurant? How many people can it serve? The occ-It's directly tied to the impact of the restaurant on the neighborhood. The real question is what the occupancy limit should be for those uses that don't require a special exception. I'd like to point out a couple of things with respect to the city staff's report, in determining what that occupancy load should be. The first comment that I would like to make is that there is a-the staff lays out eleven restaurants that it considers clearly meet the intent of the CN- 1 zone. In the chart in the memorandum, however, some of these restaurants are listed only at their seating figures, not at their occupancy levels, so some of those figures could be understated. The second thing I'd like to point out with respect to the memorandum, is that it says these eleven restaurants clearly meet the intent of the CN-1 zone. And in the very next sentence it says, but those with high occupancy levels maybe exceed what we need, what we want in our CN-1 zone. I see a real flaw with this logic, and maybe it's the lawyer in me, but I don't think you can say we're looking at these restaurants to decide what the occupancy load should be and then say but these occupancy loads are too high, so we want to discount the impacts of those restaurants, when the whole purpose is looking at This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 41 them as a benchmark, you can't throw out the information that they provide to you on the very issue you're trying to decide. The last thing I'd like to mention is that the one restaurant that we've mentioned a couple of times in the CN-1 zone has been left off this list, and that's in-off Melrose, it's Jimmy's Brick Oven. Jimmy's Brick Oven has 3,126 square feet and has seating or has an occupancy load as a 196 people. In light of the fact that this restaurant was approved, its obviously got to be suited for the CN-1 zone, otherwise they wouldn't have approved it. Therefore we think the appropriate occupancy limit should be more approximately 130. Finally, I'd like to bring one other point to the council members attention, and that is as long as were going to amend the ordinance to take care of its problems, I would like to suggest one other proposed amendment, and that is, currently the ordinance has a two pronged approach. It limits the-the proposed amendment limits the occupancy load, and also limits the portion of restaurant space within the total CN-1 zone, and I would like to suggest that you add the words existing or propose. This change was made previously to other areas in the CN-1 zone ordinance for example where it talks about office space. It talks about the fact that office space should not exceed more than 30 percent of the existing or proposed commercial space in the CN-1 zone. And I think that that correction should be made in this section of the ordinance as well. Otherwise it makes places to heavy of an emphasis on mere building order. Because it depends on what's been built as to what 20 percent would be. So it seems to me as long as were correcting the ordinance we might as well correct it totally at once than come back at it a second time. I'd be happy to answer any questions if you have any. Norton/There's not a-I think we all understood that last point about making the ordinance consistent with respect to areas, and there's some other wordings changes that have been proposed for that matter that are certainly likely to be done. The one restaurant that you alluded to was done by special exception. I don't think anybody here as any trouble with the restaurant that is specifically under consideration here, to be considered as special exception, and I don't know if we can promise how the Board of Adjustment goes on that but the other on was granted under that the question of the logic that leads you to a 130 for provisional uses, I don't find very compelling either, it's just a number isn't it? I don't know where you came up with that number precisely. Frey/Well, I think if I could respond to that briefly, I think the reason that I believe it needs to be higher than a 130 is a 195 is significantly larger than a 100. You know, we're not talking about 110 for this special exception. We approved a restaurant that's almost double what your talking on the minimum occupancy level is. And that means that a whole lot of restaurants are going to have to go This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 42 through the special exception process, which can be very long and drawn out, and ira restaurant of a 195 occupancy load is appropriate, it seems to me we ought to take a real look at what the minimum level ought to be so that we don't force a lot of people to go through a lot of time and expense and procedure in applying for the exception if everybody agrees that the exception should be granted. Kubby/Except Jimmy's Brick Oven in another spot, maybe it's got in court, may not be in by itself as a new building with its own parking, wouldn't maybe not be approved under the special exceptions in another spot at another time. And it was just a matter of timing and a matter of already built parking and already built up pedestrian ways and shared parking that allowed that and that may not be approved in another area, so I think using that as an example is not necessarily the best or most appropriate example. Because there are specific reasons why that restaurant was approved in that spot. We want to have that kind of ability to look at those issues. Frey/I would agree. The only thing that I would like to respond is that there aren't a lot of CN-1 zones in Iowa City. There's three and a lot of those areas are developing areas that are having some changes in them at this time and I think there are, you know, as was mentioned earlier over 500 people within walking distance of this proposed location. And I think those factors clearly suggest that we ought not to make the, you know, if we're going to look at 195 and say that's acceptable, make everyone go through a bunch of hoops, when everybody believes that something larger than that would be acceptable. Norton/The point is to leave special exception so you can take a look at the details of the particular thing. I still think that a serious discussion with us and P/Z is in order to see where we can come out here, but there is important to have public response, for example so that the neighbors with their concerns can get their oar in and special exception provides for that. Frey/I would agree with that, and I'm not saying it should be totally unlimited, I just think that we ought to take a look at that number and not be miss-make it so low that everybody has to-to many people have to go through the extraordinary administrative process, when most people agree that some what larger would be appropriate. Kubby/And John in your case, people want your restaurant, but in another case the neighborhood may not want that big of, or that footprint of it so. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 43 Streit/Special exceptions has already given me 127 people. All I want is a 1292 square foot basement. Lehman/But I think the point here now is that, Bob, we will ask P/Z to take a look at the 130 number. We will continue the public hearing until the 24th, and at that time we will receive. Is that a reasonable possibility to have a reply to us by the 24th? Kubby/Are there four people who want that 130 number? Thomberry/I don't know if there are four people out of five. Lehman/It takes four. Thomberry/Right this minute. But there are two council members missing. So I just as soon have the other two council members here before- Norton/But there are four to have the meeting, isn't there? P/Z and talk this over. Lehman/All right, there are four people who agree to send this back to P/Z for their- Thomberry/Not necessarily send it back. Lehman/For their recommendation on the 130 number. Thornberry/If we can get it back by the next council meeting. Frey/Is there anymore questions? Lehman/No, thank you very much. Miklo/The next P/Z meeting, I believe, is March 19. So we could have a- Lehman/Brief discussion and give us some indication as to the feeling of both the Commission and staff. Kubby/And to have- Traditionally we have some face to face contact when there is a disagreement with P/Z. Thornberry/Sometimes we do and sometimes- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 44 Lehman/I don't know, Karen, that I would characterize this as being a disagreement with P/Z because I don't know that I hear four people saying they want 130. I think it is, to me, it is asking them for a clarification why do you choose the 100 instead of 130. I don't know that we have a disagreement but I guess I would like their rationale for picking 100 as opposed to 130. Would that be a fair characterization? Norton/I don't know what they will say about 130. I would talk to them directly about it. Kubby/Well Dee wants to move forward with 130 in two weeks. I mean he has said that he plans to make that amendment. So- Lehman/That is fine. By that time, we will have had their input which I think it what we are looking for. Kubby/If their input is we still want it to be 100, I think there should be P/Z presence at our informal on the 21 st. Norton/I would like that, yes. Lehman/Thank you. Norton/Somebody could come and talk with us. Thomberry/I have one more question on this proposed ordinance and that is the proposed total- Let's see, the total floor area allocated to restaurants will not use- will not exceed 20% of the existing or proposed total public commercial floor area. Lehman/Take public out. Thornberry/Yeah. Miklo/Public was the recommendation of the attorney. That is not in the draft before you. If you put in the word public, then for every building we would have to start figuring where the bathrooms are, what is open to the public, what is not. Thornberry/So if that change could be made. Miklo/That is already in the draft before you. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6e page 45 Lehman/Okay, it is already made. Miklo/Proposed or existing is in the draft you are considering. Norton/Okay. Lehman/Is there any further comment? Karr/Could we have a motion to accept correspondence? Lehman/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Thomberry. All in favor- (ayes). Correspondence will be accepted. Is there a motion to continue the p.h. to the 24th? Moved by Norton, seconded by O'Donnell. All in favor- (ayes). The public hearing is continued to the 24th. Kubby/And as far as appreciated having your correspondence in time for the packet so we don't have to read it while we are sitting up here. So thank you very much for the timing of your correspondence. Norton/Thanks, John. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6f page 46 #6f Public heating on an ordinance amending the approved preliminary Sensitive Areas Development Plan for Lot 51 of Walden Hills, containing 2.9 acres and located within the OSA-8, Sensitive Areas Overlay Zone at the northeast comer of Shannon Drive and Irving Avenue. (REZ97-0018) Lehman/We have been asked to continue this hearing to 24th of March. Does that require a motion? Dilkes/You need to open it and then have a motion. Lehman/We are back to the p.h. (reads agenda). The p.h. is open. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Thomberry, to continue this hearing to the 24th. All in favor- (ayes). The p.h. is continued. Norton/Wait a minute, before we go. This is another one of those p.h.s that is very important because there is quite a bit of change here in the nature of this development. It is kind of a new development with narrow lost and small lots and somewhat of an alley in the back and garages off of the street. It is quite a radical change. So I think it would be an interesting p.h. for people to hear. Kubby/It would be nice for pictures, the colored picture of the plat and then the picture of the Des Moines- So people could see what kind it would look like. It would be interesting to have at our meeting. If Planning staff could have that for us. The overhead that we had last night was really instructive. Norton/It showed the new lot sizes and stuff, yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 47 #6g Consider a motion to forward a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending that a request to rezone 5.3 acres from Suburban Residential (RS-10) to Planned Commercial (CP2) for property located in the northwest quadrant of the intersection of Highway 1 and Landon Avenue be denied. (CZ9801) Lehman/I think we have someone who would like to speak to that in the audience. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Norton. Discussion. Tom Anthony/From Landmark Surveying and Engineering. I have been working with Steve Schmidt and Harvey Miller of Apax Construction on this project. It has basically kind of been a two year project and your kind of getting in on it at the very end. But at the beginning it started off with about four RS-10 zoned lots on a 45 acre parcel and through the process we were not able to acquire access to Hwy 1 for those residential lots. Subsequent to that, Mr. Miller purchased the entire 45 acres so that he could build his home on that 45 acres and hopefully put his small business on that site along with his home. The only way to do that, of course, is to go through the county's portion of the re-zoning which is a CP-2 classification which is very similar to a planned area development in that it includes site plan as part of that review that is also approved. And that is the only zone that allows what they call a carpenter shop and that is the only use that is very close to what they are putting in. What caused all of the alarm though was the fact that CP-2 also allows a high multitude of other uses and in your site- I am sorry, in your staff report, it said that while a proposed use of a small office and equipment storage area at this location may not have a negative impact on the area, the CP-2 zone allowed many other uses including but not limiting for restaurants, filling stations, distribution facilities, and other items which are pretty high intensity. That is what kind of got everybody stirred up, rightly so. The county though does not have a conditional use as part of their zoning. It can only occur if the applicant voluntarily puts in a contract conditional use and that is what we have proposed and I hope that you have seen that document in your packet by now. The meat of that document is a lot of lawyer language but in English, there are a couple of items that I like to highlight for you. Whereas Apax seeks to approve the county- I am sorry, seeks approval from the county for said rezoning applications and site plan in consideration of said approval and mutual agreement set forth here in and agreed as follows. The reality described shall be used exclusively for the uses and configuration according to the approved site plan. That the use defined in this agreement is for a carpenter related car and tractor office and shop building. That no other uses are allowed under this agreement even though other uses are permitted under the allowable CP-2 zoning ordinance. And that is basically the meat of it is that the applicant is agreeing in a contract to limit their usage to only that that is on the approved site plan and therefore, they are not allowed to put in This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 48 the high uses that the CP-2 also allows. So what we are asking you tonight, its basically to recommend approval to the supervisors with the inclusion of this zoning contract agreement so that alleviates their concern about the extended uses. Thomberry/Question. I understand that if they built what they wanted to build there and kept it there, that would be all fight. But if they were to sell that property at a future time, that it would revert back to the county's CP-2. Is that correct? Kubby/The letter says forever, right? Anthony/Right, once it is zoned CP-2, it goes with the land. The contract states- Thornberry/It could be those other uses. (All talking). Anthony/It says the agreement shall be recorded with the recorders office and shall run as a covenant with the land, binding all the heirs, assignees of said reality. So it is just like a regular covenant with your land. It goes to the next person, the next person and the next person down. Lehman/Tom, I have a question on this and I did talk to Karin Franklin earlier today because I had not read the CZA until we visited this morning. So I did call Karin and Karin indicated to me that she did not think it was legal to have a CZA agreement attached in this rezoning. Eleanor, does that- Dilkes/I think maybe the county doesn't do CZA. Do you know, Bob? Have you done them in the county? Anthony/We have done two of them in the last two months. Dilkes/Okay because Sarah told me she was- Miklo/ In terms of- The court cases have found in the past that CZA, you can enter into agreements that restrict physical lay-out of the property but you can't restrict uses. The theory being that if you are zoning something for commercial and you are saying it is okay for commercial and you can't say it is okay for this type, this one commercial use but not the other that is allowed in that zone. So, legally, CZAs that have restricted uses or properties to one use have not been held up in the State of Iowa and I think that is the concern. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 49 Lehman/That is what- I understood Karin to say that. Dilkes/I haven't looked at that. I mean, I can't tell you that for sure. I would suspect Karin is familiar with it. Lehman/Well, that is what she told me this morning. Norton/It would be like a subset of uses with in the CP zone. It would be excluded. Normally, yeah, I see what you mean. Boy this is tricky at best. Lehman/Well, it is and I- After reading the CZA, it appeared to me that some of the concerns of both the P/Z as well as the county which were regarding other uses that might occur in future years, would be prevented by this and Karin said that that probably would not be a legal- That is probably wouldn't be legal. Miklo/I think one of the other concerns here is that if this property is zoned commercial in any area that is otherwise agriculture-residential, why not the next property and the next and the next. Kubby/With contracts on each one of them. Miklo/And the county's Comprehensive Plans don't call for that. So that would be giving this particular property special treatment. Anthony/One thing we did add to that to help smooth that out was the fact that on #5 the conditions of this agreement may be only modified through the review process and applicable approval of the County Zoning Commission, Iowa City P/Z Commission, Board of Supervisors, City Council. So if anyone wanted to go through the process again and try to change it, they would have to go through all of the ropes just like someone starting fresh right now. Lehman/Tom, what I think I am hearing is that that is this would not necessarily hold up. Say if that property were sold and somebody else wanted to use it, they could come back and say this is commercial property, it has been rezoned and you cannot restrict it to this specific use even though you signed an agreement. That is what I heard Karin telling me today. Anthony/Like Bob said, it is controversial and somewhat gray. The county has approved two contract zonings this year and that is all we can say, I guess. Lehman/Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 50 Dilkes/I suspect that there are some gray areas there that we- I mean, to really give you an answer, I think we would have to take a look at it and how it would- Norton/How can we act on it without knowing? Thomberry/Well, regardless of what we say, the county can still do whatever they want anyway. All this is is to consider a motion to forward a letter recommending. Norton/But our letter says to deny, doesn't it? Thornberry/Well, it does but they can approve or deny over our recommendation. Norton/I understand that but it might change my mind if I thought this was a legal move and didn't set an ugly precedence. I might change my mind about denial here. Lehman/Is this something we want to defer to the next meeting? Kubby/I don't know that I want us to have our attorneys spend staff time to make it less gray. Lehman/Let's put it this way, if we were to discover that the CZA is in fact a valid- Would we say yes or would we still say no? Norton/I think about that. Anthony/Yeah, you still have to come to terms with whether you agree that this is an acceptable zoning. Norton/Also the precedence for adjacent areas. That is the problem, yeah. Anthony/But it is not like there is not commercial there. We are across the street from four commercial ventures already, Donahues. There is an automotive place. Thornberry/Were these all done the same way? Anthony/No. Kubby/There is a different kind of commercial zoning there. Anthony/Those are more heavy than what we are proposing here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 51 Kubby/Eleanor, how does one go about removing or changing a covenant that is on a property? I mean is that possible. Dilkes/Well, you would have to have the agreement of both contracting parties. Kubby/Because one of the things I worry about with these kinds of things is that they get hidden in the shuffle over the years, not out of anybody's intent to develop the property or will a property to somebody. But that things get lost and that it is like: I bought this property thinking CP-2, there is all these uses. Now I find out there is all this stuff so you should let me do what I want to do even thought there is this legally binding thing because I didn't know about it when I bought the property. O'Donnell/Isn't the covenant right in the title opinion though? Kubby/Well, we get things all of the time where people don't know they are responsible for paying for sidewalks and it is right there. Thornberry/You can go ahead and answer his question. Dilkes/The covenant would be, if recorded with the Johnson County Recorder, would show up in the abstract and title. Lehman/I think it is important to notice the reason this was denied by P/Z and the staff was because of its inconsistency with the Fringe Area Policy. That is the reason they gave for denying this and I think are we willing to act on their recommendation. Norton/Well, I am still thinking but did P/Z have this conditional zoning possibility in front of them? Lehman/No. Anthony/No, in fact we had a motion to approve and a second for approval and then the discussion came up of the extended uses. That is what put the killer to it. Norton/And it slipped away from you. Anthony/We lost our contact. We didn't think we needed a contract zoning initially. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 52 Kubby/So ifP/Z did not- If we are relying solely on P/Z's recommendation and they did not see this, maybe it would be better, instead of a no vote, to defer to ask P/Z if their mind would be changed in terms of it. Although the Fringe Area has not changed. And we spent a long time negotiating that Fringe Area Agreement and I think it is a really important document. Norton/But it does seem to me that we are being asked to act on something that P/Z has not acted on and it would be better if they could take a look at it and let us know and I have asked if that is going to cause more delay and I am not sure if it is going to change anything. Anthony/Well, that is another portion of the discussion. Do we go through the process if we know the council is not going to go along with it anyway. Then we have wasted a lot of time. Lehman/That is a very good point. If we are going to deny this based on the Fringe Area Agreement- Kubby/We should say no now. Lehman/We should say no now rather than go through- Norton/Well- Anthony/My comment about the Fringe Area is I think, and Bob can correct me if I am wrong. The Fringe Area has a two mile jurisdiction and that first mile is in the growth area where there is a lot of control, as should be, for the immediate annexation. We are like 1.8 miles out into the two-mile jurisdiction and that would maybe be considered an interim growth area or one that you don't want to think about yet because it is a little bit too far from that one mile immediate process. But I am sure if we think about that in a further future long term thing, that with 965 coming through and the future of Hwy 1, that probably is going to continue as a commercial corridor through there and we are a little bit ahead of that schedule with this. But I don't think it is totally out of line that Hwy 1 is going to be a commercial venture. Miklo/ I wouldn't necessarily characterize the Fringe Area Agreement that way. It goes out the full two miles. Actually I think it is not based on a mile. It is based on- Our growth area is based on our sanitary sewer line. The Fringe Area Agreement addresses the entire two miles and it doesn't call for a commercial corridor in this area. One of the comments that the P/Z Commission did observe is that there is This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 53 vacant commercial land across the road from this, the south side ofHwy 1 and they felt there wasn't a need to zone additional commercial development until that was developed. Thornberry/How many properties across the street, Bob, are commercial now? Is it right across the street? Miklo/It is on the south side of Hwy 1. It may be a few hundred feet to the west. I believe it is about 12 acres. O'Donnell/Is that Donohue and Yansky? What is that zoning? Miklo/It is some sort of commercial that would allow a contractor yard as is being proposed. O'Donnell/It is more heavy duty. Miklo/I am not sure of the exact classification. I just know it is a commercial zone. This proposal is a contractor's yard and it would fit into that zone. O'Donnell/But it is right across the road? Miklo/Right. Anthony/That is a general statement, too. CP-2 is the only one that allows a contractor's building. So if it highway commercial or C-1 to C-2 or any of the other county zones, it won't allow it. Lehman/The question really is are we going to- Would the consideration of the CZA influence our decision to vote when it has been denied because of the inconsistency with the Fringe Area and I think that is a very good point because you go to the work and the effort, whatever, and come back in two weeks and we say, hey listen, it doesn't comply with the Fringe Area, we are sorry we can't approve it. I think that is right, we need to say right now- Norton/I am not going to nibble on the Fringe Area. We have been working too hard to try to get some green space around it. Before we build a- Lehman/Do we have any nibblers? Kubby/No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 54 Thornberry/I think, you know, the green space- Right now, if you look at it from the air, Iowa City is green- (All talking). Lehman/Which four people? Thomberry/With commercial across the street and with the conditional language in that, that it can't be something else. I see no problem. Lehman/All right. In any event, we have two people who would like to nibble and we have- It takes four people to pass this, so we are going to have to continue until the next meeting. Kubby/Is that the only choice here? Lehman/I think it is. Kubby/I move we defer this to- Karr/Withdraw the first one. You have got a motion on the floor already. Kubby/I thought a motion to defer always took precedence over whatever else was- Karr/Well, since you made it. Kubby/I take back what I said. Lehman/By golly, we accept your retraction. Kubby/On this issue. Norton/I always hear the motions can't be taken back but I will go along with it. Kubby/I withdraw my motion. Is that the correct terminology? Lehman/Anything goes here. Anthony/Can the owner have a moment to speak? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 55 Lehman/Absolutely. Harvey Miller/One of the co-owners. We started out three years ago, the small commercial contractor and we do mainly University of Iowa remodeling work. We bid on work here in town. Currently we are working out of my home office and we have a shop up in Mount Vernon where we store most of our materials which we are outgrowing and I guess I would like some consideration to the affordability of commercial land. We were told the land across the street for just about a little over five acres is $600,000, way beyond anything we can ever hope to afford. The lots we looked at in town, between one acre an two acres, are anywhere from $150,000 to $200,000 also. We purchased 45, almost 46 acres for quite a bit less than that in hopes that with the commercial property right across the street and the use of the land right now being, its a pasture land. It's this very hilly, not good for agricultural hoping that you know, this would be a possibility. We weren't told by anyone that it would definitely be turned down or there were any good reasons. I'm not sure what the, not well versed on the fringe agreement what that all encompasses, but we're very low impact to the area. We've talked to neighbors. We tried to accommodate any concerns they would have. We can't afford land in town. We would much rather be right in town if there were a lot here that we could build on and have our business. That's what we'd prefer, but to this point unless you know of some, we don't know of any that we can afford. And we'd like to continue being here in Iowa City and being part of that. Let our business grow. Have our livelihood here and if it's two miles out that we have to be in order to do that, that was the best we could do at the time. We didn't have any other plans beyond that for the land. I want to build a house there to be close to the business and to keep an eye on it and all of our materials and everything would be stored inside the building. So I guess you know to us, we don't have any other options and to say, you know, just buy some land somewhere else isn't a good option for us and we'd like a little consideration. There's a lot of consideration for people who can't afford housing in Iowa City and I guess as a small business maybe we'd like some consideration in that way. There are some affordability issues in that regard also so you'd consider that. Kubby/Thanks. Lehman/Well we're going to have a chance to consider it again in two weeks because- Kubby/Because I move to defer to March 24. Miller/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 6g page 56 Lehman/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Norton to defer until the 24 of March. All in favor (ayes). Motion carries. We'll defer that until March 24. Norton/We've got two things to talk with P/Z about. Lehman/Well- Norton/They ought to take a look at the- Lehman/Bob, I would suggest that if the reason, if the conditional zoning agreement will have an impact on P/Z's recommendation they should say so. If they're denial is based on the fringe area as it reads, I don't know if we need further comment from them. Miklo/We will provide them with a conditional zoning agreement asking comment on it. Lehman/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 7a page 57 #7 LONG-TERM DEER MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR IOWA CITY a. PUBLIC HEARING Lehman/The p.h. is open. Dave Nicholson/My name is Dave Nicholson. I live on Wylde Green Road. I guess the problem that I have with this is you guys were given the option for using bow hunters here and the problem that popped up was that it was inhumane. And I guess the problem that I have with that is that I've hunted deer with a shotgun and stuff like that and you know when you're hunting deer with a bow, you're all camouflaged and quiet. I mean, with a shot gun, they're going to hear the boom. They're not going to hear the bow. I guess the other problem that comes in here is the CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-41 SIDE 2 Nicholson/And the figures that I've been told or I've heard is $175 to kill the deer and then you've got a processing cost which I was told from Mr. Rezicka was $35 and that was when they were talking about shooting the deer at night, which you're not going to be able to do, where you'd have a whole bunch of deer and then you could get them up there and get them processed, bring them back and put them in the food bank. Stuff like that. So you're looking at over $200 a deer and you're looking at killing, my understanding from the paper is 176 a year. You're budgeted for $20,000. You're a little over budget right away and, well, so, as taxes payers we're paying for you guys to kill deer, when we can use people who shoot with bows for free. Lehman/If I'm mistaken, correct me, but I think the council has already approved the sharpshooting method of reducing the numbers, not controlling them, but reducing the numbers. What we're talking about here is the language that would be acceptable to the DNR to maintain those numbers. And the language that is proposed in maintaining those numbers does include the option of bow hunting should the Deer Committee council choose to approve that. Each year as they go along there will be a recommendation from the deer committee to the council, so it'll have to be approved or conceivably by both the committee and the council. The decision to harvest the deer, to reduce the numbers, by sharpshooting, I think has already been made. It is the maintenance as required by the DNR, they'd like to know, you know, we'll help to get your numbers down, we'll let you sharpshoot, to reduce that herd, but you've got to figure out a way to maintain those numbers, and one of the options is the DNR would like see us have This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 7a page 58 available to us is bow and arrow hunting and that is one of the options that has been recommended. Nicholson/And your comment on that was no way in, what to make at this point. Lehman/No, no, no we're talking about- Nicholson/In the long term. Lehman/In the long term it will come annually. Nicholson/Okay. Lehman/Each year there'll be a review by the deer committee. They will recommend a council, council will take action. In no way it encumbers the deer committee or the council to allow or not allow. Boy, it just says that is an option that is available. Nicholson/That option, and what you've come out and said in the paper, that there probably would not happen. Lehman/With this council, and this deer committee, I do not believe that would happen. Now, that's a personal opinion, I have not polled the council- Nicholson/And if they had a problem with this getting it to the DNR and the commissioners like that, if that comes out, that okay the council has said, you know, there probably won't be any bow hunting, you see that as going through, or not. Lehman/I think it would go through because we allow the possibility of it. Once you eliminate options, we say there will absolutely not be bow hunting, we're not saying that, and I'm not saying that this council couldn't change its mind or that the deer committee wouldn't change its mind. We have not eliminated the option of it, and I think that's important. Even if this council does not approve of bow hunting, I think that its important that we leave that option for a future councils. And I think if I'm not misunderstanding this is what the DNR wants is the option to be there so that if the council and the deer committee choose to control deer in that matter, which is one of several ways it can be done, that that is available to US. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 7a page 59 Norton/I'd like to add one thing, Ernie, that it is important to keep all the options open, because we don't know how its going to go. We've got to get some exper-we've got to look into the money. We've got different problems in different sections of town. Different possibilities for some methods are just not going to work in certain regions, so I think we need to keep, if you wish, our powder dry. We have to look at all the options as we move along including bow and arrow as a possibility. So that's going to be the future, but I think we need to keep that option in there. Nicholson/As this option goes along and the way I see it right now, is the city owns the property on the peninsula. The city owns the property on Hickory Hill. Correct? Lehman/I think it's correct. Nicholson/So there's your two options to shoot for your sharp shooters as long as the DNR grants you permission and the long term plan is all there. I guess the problem I see coming in is with the committee and stuff like that is have they done the homework to see if the private sector is willing to let the sharpshooters on that. Lehman/I don't think that's, I mean that is certainly a possibility. I don't think that there's anything that says sharpshooting has to take place on city property. That's another decision that would be made by the deer committee in the spring, where hunting would take place, but any hunting inside the city limits, whether it be sharp shooting or bow and arrow hunting or whatever, will be controlled by the city. Nicholson/The problem with the thing with the sharpshooting has nothing to do with hunting. This is plain killing. Norton/Right. Kubby/But that's the point of the plan. We're trying to be real clear that this is not a sporting activity. This is a deer kill. Nicholson/Um-huh. Kubby/Especially for the first part of the plan, that that's not part of our purview is to allow hunting opportunities in the city limits. What our goal is to reduce the deer herd. And we're doing that through a deer kill, not through a hunting opportunity. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 7a page 60 Thornberry/I think we've been very happy with the DNR being as flexible as they have been with our proposal from the deer committee and from the council. They've been very very flexible in allowing us to think the herds with sharpshooters. We in turn need to be flexible on how to maintain those herds. And that's what I think the deer committee and we're going to do, is be flexible on that. I hope. Nicholson/So the final reading then says that bow hunting may be allowed or bow hunting may be utilized? Lehman/Exactly right. Nicholson/Okay. Kubby/To be clear, what it says is, any or all legal lethal methods available currently consistently of sharpshooting, trap and kill, and bow and arrow hunting may be utilized after the initial reduction plan if the methods meet the following criteria. 1. Public safety. 2. Community acceptance. 3. Effectiveness in maintaining a desired number of deer. Does that help? Lehman/So they're all available. Kubby/I mean that's the language. Dan Harbit/Hi. My name's Dan Harbit. I live at 909 Wylde Green Road. And I know Ernie very well. We agree on most things, but not exactly everything, and this is one of them. I'm obviously an avid hunter and I've lived in Iowa City all my life. I guess I find it somewhat strange that we would take the opportunity to use sharpshooters just from a safety standpoint. Having also been a hunter and an archer, there's a big difference between the fact that an arrows going to travel maybe 100 yards tops before it's around and that bullet's going to go several hundred yards if not a mile. And I guess ifI were out in the woods and they had sharpshooters in the park and I happened to wander in there when I shouldn't, and you know I happened to be a quarter mile away, I'd be a lot less worded about a bow hunter shooting me than a sharpshooter. And granted these are trained individuals, I guess I'm just wondering who would be responsible if there was an accident and how that would be handled? Kubby/And that question might true for a sharpshooter or a bow and arrow. Harbit/I mean I'm just asking that as a general question. I know we've already made a decision to make sharpshooters and that's fine. That's the choice you made. But This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 7a page 61 you're also taking a greater risk in that you're using a ballistic rifle vs. a bow which won't have near the distance. I mean I would give you the opportunity to shoot me with a bow from three blocks away and I could stand there and I wouldn't be worded. But you pull up a gun, no way. Bets are off. And you know, that kind of concems me as a long time citizen of Iowa City with everything that we've gone through that we'd take this opportunity to expose ourself to a lot of liability, potential liability. If you look at the areas where you're talking about shooting down by Interstate 80. If you shoot one way, you're shooting towards the cars possibly. Shoot across the river, you're shooting towards Coralville businesses. You shoot the other way, you're shooting toward the trailer court. Lehman/I would be amazed if we shoot towards any of the things you've just mentioned. Harbit/But you go out and look where the deer are. Lehman/I don't know this but I would assume the deer committee is going to go through this and my understanding is that there will be bait in the gullies and the shooting will take place in the ridges and if they miss the deer, the bullets goes into the ground. Harbit/Okay. But assuming it doesn't, just say if. I mean, I just hope you are prepared for a situation. Worse case scenario, I hope you are prepared for a possible very serious consequence that you would not have if you used bow hunting and that is the only point that I would like to make. I mean, you made the decision, that's fine. I don't personally agree with it but- Norton/We are ready. We are concerned with that and I think the Committee leaned heavily on experience in other urban areas including suburban Chicago and areas of Minnesota. So I think they are going on considerable experience in other places of a similar sort so that it can be managed carefully. But those, of course, are some of the issues we- Thornberry/They have also been concerned about the noise of the weapons on different families, whether they have had some problem with gun noises in their history of their past of whatever. The children or whatever. I don't know if silencers are going to be on the rifles, I don't know. Harbit/That is what I was wondering. If you high powered rifle go off, it is 3 -4 times louder than a shotgun. I mean it is enough to make you wonder where it is coming from. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 7a page 62 Thomberry/If they are in a tree blind and shooting down with a muzzle or a silent weapon, that would satisfy my concerns with that point. But as far as a ricochet, I had a ricochet golfball that broke a window, too, and I know what you mean by that though. Lehman/Well, the thing we are discussing really right now is the wording of how we are going to maintain the herd. The decision for sharpshooting has been made. Whether that is right or wrong- Harbit/And I realize that and I guess I would just like to seriously have you consider both as a control option. Lehman/It will be- It is in the wording. Harbit/I know it is in the wording but I mean very seriously consider because I mean, I only take for what I read halfway because the paper tends to distort things. But, you know, when you hear this is it, it will never happen, no way. Lehman/Never is a long time. Harbit/That is right. So, but I just did want to bring up the one point about the safety issue and I think it is a big factor. So, thank you. Lehman/Thank you. Any further discussion? Kubby/I have further discussion but this is a p.h, so I will wait until- Lehman/The p.h. is closed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 7b page 63 #7 LONG-TERM DEER MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR IOWA CITY. b. CONSDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING Lehman/Do we have a motion approving the resolution? Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Norton to approve the resolution. Discussion. Kubby/Well, I think that if the Committee was left to its own devises, that bow hunting would not be part of the long term plan as an option because of how they came to their original decision. I will never really know that because they weren't left to their own devises because of the state level conversation about this and we needed that because they have power to approve or not approve. But I just think we are breaking some new important grounds for the rest of Iowa, this plan, and I mean that not in terms of what options are chosen but in terms of the process and our home rule status in the state that continually gets eroded from municipalities. And so I am more worried about the process at this point because I don't think- I believe that we were told you could have a community process and you can come up with your plan. But that wasn't totally how things came down and that I believe that we are setting ourselves up for some community conflict over this issue every year with how the wording is but I really believe that we need to get to the root of the problem which to me is community control versus state or DNR control over this and that by not being persistent with the language that this community really wants, that we are only breaking the surface of that ground. So I think that what we need from the DNR is assistance from the DNR, not dictation from the DNR. And because of that, I won't support the short term plan as I did not support the long term. Norton/I share some of our concern but I think things evolve. I think we better take it in small steps and I understand we didn't get, if you wish, the whole loaf but we got a pretty good chunk. And I think we need to proceed and see what happens and then work it out. I agree with you in principle we would like to have complete control. Personally, I would have preferred to leave bow and arrow hunting out of it because it hasn't proved very effective in a number of places and the community didn't want is really. But I think we have to compromise a little. O'Donnell/I am going to approve it and I will always be in favor of bow hunting, not only because I think it is safer. That is what this is all about is safety and a bow is safer than a gun. So I will be supporting the bow this year and for the next three years. Lehman/Roll call- (4-1, Kubby-no). Resolution is approved. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 8 page 64 #8 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 9 OF THE CITY CODE OF IOWA CITY ENTITLED "MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC," CHAPTER 3, SECTION 12 HEREIN TO AMEND BY ORDINANCE LANE USAGE AND PAVEMENT MARKINGS ON MELROSE AVENUE FROM UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS TO BYINGTON ROAD. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Lehman/The is a second consideration of this is regarding a turn lane on Melrose, turning, if you are heading west, turning to the right onto Byington. Moved by Thomberry, seconded by O'Donnell. By the way, we are doing this because we have an agreement with University Heights that the striping in that road would not be changed except by ordinance. Any discussion? Karr/This is second consideration. Lehman/Second consideration, I realize that. What did I say? Karr/Pass and adopt. Lehman/Oh, roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 9 page 65 #9 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE NAPOLEON PARK ENTRANCE AND PARKING LOT IMPROVEMENTS. Lehman/And we have tonight received or today we received the bids. The recommendation is that the contract be awarded to Streb Construction Company for $337,892.75. The Engineers Estimate was $442,000. Bids ranged from approximately $338- to $384-, all well below the estimates and I think perhaps bears out the reasoning from the city staff in asking for us to go for this bid earlier. So I would entertain a motion to approve the contract. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Norton. Discussion. Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 10 page 66 #10 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING THE IOWA CITY DOWNTOWN STREETSCAPE PLAN Lehman/The proposed Downtown Streetscape Plan which includes the pedestrian mall and whatever has been discussed at some length by council. We had asked that there be certain reductions in the amount of money spent on that but it covers a ten block area downtown, includes benches, trash receptacles, lighting and a number of things. And I think this resolution indicates to the public our commitment to revitalizing this are for the community. So I entertain a motion to adopt. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Norton. Discussion. Norton/I just want to say in this regard because I don't want this to wait until council time. I want to comment. In support of this people might want to see a film that is going to be shown on Channel 4, the Government Channel, every Monday, March 16 -April 13, 6:30, called Back From the Brinks, Saving America Cities by Design and it is very- It speaks of the history of three different cities, Portland, Chattanooga, and Suisun City, California. But it is very germane to the kind of changes that we are making downtown and points out their centrality to maintaining a sense of community. So I want to encourage people, the viewers, to take a look at that film, 6:30, Monday, March 16 - April 13, each Monday, Channel 4. Kubby/It was great. We had a taskforce with a varied spectrum of people on it who helped create this so there was a lot of community input and involvement on the very front end of this which helped create support and makes a better plan, I think. And I really want to thank Bruno Pigott because he really got us to focus a little bit more on the downtown in 1996 and then Ernie or Dee Norton and Larry Baker took it on as kind of keeping the city's focus on downtown issues. So I want to thank Bruno for getting the ball rolling and Norton and Baker for keeping it rolling along and here we are culminating it. It is an exciting thing to be passing. It is an important investment in our community. Lehman/Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 67 #11 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND BRW INC. OF MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA TO PROVIDE FINAL DESIGN SERVICES FOR THE IOWA CITY DOWNTOWN STREETSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS. Lehman/I am going to read the comment on this one (reads agenda comment). Moved by Norton, seconded by Kubby to approve this. I just visited with Karin a little bit today. I visited with Steve a little bit and I do not remember at all during our discussion of the Streetscape Plan any indication that we would do less than three phases. I don't know if anybody else remembers that. I do not and I would like to see us include in this project or instruct Steve to tell the engineers to do the total project from a Planning standpoint. Give us a possibility of doing the entire project as was originally presented to us. I just have a problem with doing- Norton/Planning at least for the whole thing, yeah. Lehman/Right but with the possibility if we get this addendum, a separate contract. We could decide to do all three at the same time rather than doing only the two as is proposed by this resolution. Atkins/Let me make sure we understand each other. This contract was to cover substantially the two phases of a three phase project and you are asking that the project be substantially designed which is all three phases and thereby would increase that fee. Lehman/I realize that. Atkins/All right. Lehman/I realize that. I am not sure the rest of council. Atkins/Well, that would increase the fee and we would have to go back and I am sure it is within my authority to renegotiate an amendment to that fee if you were to approve this. Now, what I heard you saying, Ernie, was that let's design it and let's bid it and maybe phrase 3 is bid as an alternate. That is not an uncommon practice. We bid 1 and 2, we add 3. You choose, for whatever reasons to do only 1 and 2. We roll up the drawings for 3 and put it on the shelf and decide it at some other date. It is designed and ready to go for bid at some time in the future. It is a choice you make. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 68 Lehman/During the discussion among council, the suggestion was made by at least on council member that perhaps perhaps certain phases, certain elements of the project be done all at once. For example, all of lighting done, then maybe all of the benches and then- Kubby/For example. Atkins/I know for sure- Lehman/Unfortunately the wisdom of other council people didn't follow mine. In any event, the concern with that was that if we did something as noticeable and as impressive as the lights, that there might not be the inclination to follow through with the whole project and it was very important to do the phases completely to show the public exactly what it was going to look like. So I mean I got the feeling from council that it was very important that this be done and done right and I feel that we would be really making a mistake if we didn't include the third phase and at least a design- Kubby/But if we are going to do that- If there are a majority to do that, let's be real. Let's say we are going to go back to the $3.6 million project instead of the $2.7 million project. Lehman/But save as much as we can. Kubby/We have already saved $200,000 by going from limestone to colored concrete and maybe we can do some more material changes and look at what the exact price of the materials are. But I don't think we should- We said we wanted to spend less money on this because there is a lot of other projects that need our attention, Iowa Avenue, Iowa Avenue parking, Library/Cultural Center, Scanlon Gymnasium, etc. And if we want to do all three phases, we should do it. But not was what our discussion was and actually there was a couple of council members, we were kind of negotiating and we were at $2.7- and some people wanted to go even below that. I mean, and Dean was one of those people I would love to hear his comments about this in terms of- I am sorry. I didn't mean- What do you think about the proposal to either design the whole thing or go ahead and do the whole thing. Thomberry/I am just one of seven and I- What is yours? Kubby/I am ready to do what we decided to do at $2.7- because I think we need to save some money and that if future councils decide that this investment was indeed a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 69 very good one to do Phase 3. But at this point, I don't even want to design Phase 3 because I am ready to say no to some part of it. I am willing to do that. Norton/Let's make sure we know what we mean by Phase 3. Phase 3 includes, as I look at the map and the book, Phase 3 includes Capital Street west of Burlington, west of Old Capitol Parking Structure. It includes Burlington Street and Gilbert Street. Lehman/That is right. Norton/Now the point that Ernie is making about planning, seems to me there might be an in-between position here to include this in the design work and come in with an option to see what we are looking at. We don't know what the estimates are going to be. These are only estimates that we have. We at least know more specifically what it would take to do the whole thing and we would have a bid option with Phases 1 & 2 or including 3. How much more would you guess it is going to cost? There is a $600,000 estimate for Phase 3. Atkins/I am not so sure. I mean if there is a $600,000 estimate, this $200,000 is going to go into the $240- range. Norton/It was $2.8- was going to be for $202- So for the $600,000, that isn't going to be an awful lot more to get the plans done. So you would have them on the shelf if and when you decided to go ahead and it would be consistent with what you already have. Lehman/I think there is some value to it. Norton/Isn't that an in-between position, not committing ourselves to the whole ball of wax except in terms of planning. Kubby/I think it makes it very difficult for us to say no that once we see it. I think we are fooling ourselves and that I would prefer that we commit to the whole thing if there is a majority that want to do that and just go for it. Or choose to decide to cut back and decide something that we have to say no to. O'Donnell/When did we decide we weren't going to do Phase 3? Lehman/There is some discussion about that. Norton/That was one of the ways to try to cut down, wasn't it? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 70 O'Donnell/No, that was the fountain. (All talking). Norton/To get from $3.5- down to the $2.7, you got to do more than just change from the limestone to the colored cement. You got to leave out most of Phase 3 1 would think. But it seems to me you might not have to leave all of it out. I don't know what the bids are going to be like. That is why I would like to see all of the planning done for the whole scene and then we can, just like we did for the Near Southside. We put it away, didn't we? Kubby/Make an amendment. Put an amendment out on the floor to see if we got four votes for it. Norton/I move to ask the Planning for all three phases and come in with options. Lehman/Do we have a second? Dilkes/What is the amendment? Norton/I want to- Lehman/Add a third phase. Norton/Item #14, we have a resolution here. Not 14, item #11. We have a resolution for design and I am saying I want to modify that to include designing for all three phases. Lehman/And O'Donnell seconded. Any further discussion? Thornberry/So you want to design all three phases and do two? Norton/Presumably do two. We will see the numbers. Atkins/You would bid- Thomberry/You would bid one. Atkins/No, you would design three. In other words, you would have the project designed. The bid document would be Phase 1 and 2 as a project. And as an This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 71 alternate would be Phase 3. So you would theoretically approve 1 and 2 and walk away from 3 or you could approve all three. That is the choice you would have. Lehman/All right. Norton/That is my motion for an amendment. Lehman/Do we have any further discussion? Atkins/Hang on a second, I got the engineer waving his arms at me. Lehman/Wait a minute, time out. Fosse/I am just making sure I heard you right. Phase 1 will be bid. Then Phase 2 would be at a later date. Atkins/No. Phase 1 & 2 are a project. Phase 3 is a project. Fosse/That would be new and that is something we are not prepared to move on this summer. We can get Phase 1 designed and underway construction. Atkins/Then what we would have to- All right. That is an- You are asking-making a statement about the implementation. So we could put in the bid documents that you could bid 1 & 2, the alternate 3 is built the following year. We could do that. Fosse/ No. What would work best for if we want to do something this year, design and bid Phase 1 an then design and bid Phases 2 & 3 together for next construction season and at that time you could look at that alternate of whether or not to include 3 depending on the price that you get on both Phase 1 this year and Phase 2 next year. Kubby/We weren't talking even originally and this resolution doesn't say that Phases 1 & 2 will be built in one year. It is built in two consecutive years is how it is written here. Thornberry/Can Phase 1 be built this construction season? Fosse/We hope so. That is out plan. Norton/What is the resolution before us? It doesn't say which phases you are designing for, does it? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 72 Fosse/The resolution- Atkins/Designing for it? This is a design contract. Norton/I know but which phases are you designing for? Atkins/1 & 2. Kubby/And bidding. Atkins/And bidding 1 & 2. Fosse/Yes. Atkins/At two separate times. Fosse/One of the important things is we are going to have the majority of 1 built before we begin to design 2. So we can learn from those things. Kubby/So maybe your amendment should state to design all three but to bid three as an alternate at the appropriate time. Norton/I will take almost anything at this point. (All talking). Lehman/Rick, are we doing this right? Fosse/What I would recommend is approve the resolution that is ahead of you and then direct us to negotiate an amendment to this contract to add Phase 3 to the design. That way it will keep this going on our time schedule to get Phase 1 built this year rather than pushing back two weeks the beginning of the design. Lehman/Isn't that what you said. Norton/That is what I thought. (All talking). Lehman/Does it require a motion? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 73 (All talking). Karr/You lost me ten minutes ago. You want to go ahead on this one and simply direct staff and if it is a direction, you don't need a motion because you are not amending what is on the floor. Norton/I will buy that. We will buy this one and then direct staff to get a bid for design on Phase 3, right. Lehman/Are we on the same sheet of music? Kubby/I disagree with the direction but I support the resolution. O'Donnell/I like the direction. Lehman/I like the resolution and the direction. Karr/Is that still a Norton/O'Donnell amendment? Kubby/That is withdrawn. Karr/Oh, you want to withdraw. Lehman/They withdrew the motion. Karr/You don't need a motion. You are going to withdraw it. Kubby/We just have to nod our heads to direct staff. Lehman/Let's nod our heads. Let's take a roll call on this one. Karr/On the resolution as presented? Atkins/The roll call is on this resolution as presented? Kubby/Yes. But there are a majority of council members who want staff to have to negotiate an amendment to the contract to include Phase 3 in the design. Lehman/All right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 11 page 74 Dilkes/(Roll call). (Yeses). Lehman/Resolution carries. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 12 page 75 #12 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING THE IOWA AVENUE STREETSCAPE PLAN. Lehman/This is something we have been talking about for some time and includes the removal of parking from the street, enhancing the appearance to the Old Capital and generally making the overall appearance of downtown more attractive. This resolution adopts the concept of Iowa Avenue Plan, as we have seen it conceptually. Is there a motion to approve the resolution? Moved by Norton, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? Thornberry/On the Iowa Avenue Streetscape, Ernie, I just as soon not proceed until we get funding. Kubby/From the University you mean? Thornberry/Yeah. Kubby/But this is the plan. Thornberry/Commits us to the plan? Kubby/It sets out the plan. Atkins/It also kind of guides negotiations, directions where we are going to- Yeah, it is a commitment. Kubby/This is our plan, help us pay for the plan. Atkins/You certainly can amend it at some time in the future but I think going in with here is the city council's policy position with respect to the street. Now the funding and other the other issues have yet to be resolved. I think I understand your concern, Dean. I think this makes it a little easier to negotiate. Kubby/We can give them a picture of what it is we are asking them to be in a partnership. Lehman/All right, let me ask, Steve. If we approve this resolution, it specifically mentioned colored paves, new lights, fixtures, benches, etc. which I assume refers to the concept plan that we have seen and we also also said that we probably wouldn't do the paves. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 12 page 76 Atkins/I think you said you weren't going to do the full scale paves, maybe the intersection. Lehman/I guess what I am asking and I really feel personally that the University is going to be a partner in this which I think they will be. But they should be involved in helping lay this thing out and whatever. And I don't want anything that we would do to preclude their ability to have input in something that hopefully they are going to pay for. Atkins/Ernie, I don't see it that way at all. I think just the opposite. That if we walk in, here is the plan we have approved, University. Now, we are here to seek funding, your participation in this project. They are going to tell us how they think about it and feel about it. Lehman/We can change the plan. Atkins/We can change the plan and ifI know them- Their history is that they will put some hooks on. Lehman/Right, we are approving a concept. The concept that Iowa Avenue will be improved and enhanced. Atkins/This tells us where we are going and how we get there and all of the other issues, those are yet to be resolved. Norton/They might decide they want gold- Thomberry/They might want the paves, do the whole thing. Atkins/Talk it through with it. Hear what they have to say. Norton/I thought gold tent to match Old Capital. Lehman/Let's not get into that. Any further discussion? Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 13 page 77 #13 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION OF PROPERTY FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA AVENUE MULTI-USE PARKING FACILITY. Lehman/We have directed staff to proceed with the Iowa Avenue Parking Ramp. This an item that must be done by council direction before anything will occur on Iowa Avenue. So I think it is very important that this is the first step in part of the previous motion. That if and when. I shouldn't say if and when. When the parking facility is complete, then we will undertake whatever improvements we see fit on Iowa Avenue. Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Norton to approve the resolution. Discussion. Atkins/Ernie, you said that when the ramp is complete and I just want to make sure you don't pin yourself as a council in the comer. I can certainly see a scenario of events where it could be under construction and then you choose to do- Norton/Some overlap. Atkins/Yeah, complete with your word- Lehman/I don't see that scenario, Steve. The ramp will displace approximately 70 parking spaces. The construction of the first phase of Iowa Avenue will displace another 70. That is a loss of 140 spaces which I don't think downtown can survive. So I don't envision this happening. Let me restate it. I don't feel that Iowa Avenue will start until the ramp is completed. Council may not feel that way. Atkins/We will start- You said complete and I apologize for kind of pounding away on this. But it gets reported one way and someone misinterprets what your intent is. Lehman/I think we have told the public and every presentation that we have received from staff has also indicated that the Iowa Avenue project is contingent on the parking ramp being built and I think that the inference has always been that that facility will be available for use before we remove the parking from Iowa Avenue. Norton/It would be- You know, the definition of completion gets to be an issue here. You might have to make some radical temporary steps on Clinton or something like that to help moderate and to allow for a little overlap but you wouldn't want to butcher a contract letting because you had some painting to do on the ramp or something. I think we got to be careful. That is all Steve is saying about not making it too tight. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 13 page 78 Lehman/Essentially complete. Available for use. Atkins/We understand your policy position. I just want to make sure that when we articulate it publicly, folks understand that there may be overlap. It could be substantially complete. It could be under construction and we find a window of construction opportunity on Iowa Avenue, you may want to proceed with. I just don't want you to get trapped. Norton/One comment about or a couple of comments about this proposed parking structure on Iowa Avenue. I know there are folks who are concerned about the Harmon Building on the comer there. But the way that things are laid out, I understand it is just impossible to construct it and preserve that at the same time. But I do want to assure people that everything that I have seen from the staff and I understand they well understand to come up with a design that is a really attractive structure and not as I say, much better than Chauncey Swan as it was better than Old Capitol or something like that. To really make it compatible with the surrounding and to make it look very attractive. So I am sure we are going to get a good design. We will take a hard look at it. Make sure it is. Kubby/I disagree with the policy direction that we need this ramp in order to do Iowa Avenue and will be voting no on this resolution that we need this ramp. I would have preferred that we continue negotiations back and fourth with the University with their plans for a ramp on Iowa Avenue and Gilbert Street even though they said they weren't ready for five years. I think we should make a counter offer to say what can we do to convince you to do it earlier and I am not sure that that conversation took place or took place very aggressively. I don't want that block of Iowa Avenue, as beautiful as the ramp may end up being and as multi-use as they may end up being, being the main use of land on that block of Iowa Avenue in the long run. So I will be voting no. Lehman/Further discussion? Norton/I just want to respond to that. I thought we had the University at very explicitly said that the lot across the way was not available for many years. You wouldn't get any parking for sure. Thomberry/They did. Norton/I still hope we are looking for help from them on this thing, too. Also that is further away. I think this is, in general, this is parking already. It is a better to have it closed in in my judgment. I think it is a good move. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 13 page 79 Lehman/Roll call- (4-1, Kubby-no) Resolution is camed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 14 page 80 # 14 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING LOAN AGREEMENTS BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND ORAL-B LABORATORIES FOR $150,000 OF COMMUNITY ECONOMIC BETTERMENT ACCOUNT (CEBA) FUNDS AND FOR $40,000 FROM THE CITY TO ASSIST WITH A FACILITY EXPANSION. Lehman/This is a project that was started, I think, in the neighborhood of about a year ago I believe and is now coming to us for approval. Is there a motion to approve? Moved by Norton, seconded by Thornberry. Discussion. Kubby/I had voted yes on this in the previous resolution because at that point the company was trying to decide between a couple of places about where they should put their expansion and needed to have some community support shown for expanding here and they met all of our economic guidelines. But the company decided on their own accord that they weren't real happy with the kind of disclosure that they need to make to the state or the city to get those moneys and chose not to proceed with them but to proceed with their expansion. And so me, it is a different ball game now, so to speak. And that the community is happy to have the expansion of those jobs but when I look at- I guess I am assuming Steve that this $40,000, any grant like this comes from our General Fund? Atkins/Yes. Kubby/That those moneys are tight and that I really would rather have these kinds of moneys from a tight General Fund be spent on economic development endeavors that couldn't happen without city investment or may not happen without city investment instead of ones that are here and happen and want some kind of community support for some potential future expansion that may or may not ever occur. And Oral B is owned by Gillete and they have an annual sales of just under $10 billion a year internationally and I just don't think that they need our $40,000 General Fund. That our moneys would be better spent for other kinds of economic development endeavors. So I will be voting no. Norton/This seems to me a case where you are buying some goodwill in this case because they obviously did go ahead without the commitment. The city and the State- And ICAD decided that they would be kind of wise in terms of the future. You know, there must be an underground among people who are going to move to town and the fact that we went out of our way to give them a hand even though they conceivably in some sense didn't need it. I think it might come back to our benefit over the long run in attracting other operations like this. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 14 page 81 Lehman/I agree with Dee. I think this is very very significant in that I believe that it shows the attitude of the city and elected officials when it comes to industry within the community and certainly sends a message to Oral B that we do appreciate them being here and to other folks who might consider being here, that we are trying to be a community that is friendly to economic development. Thornberry/Oral B being a stellar organization and company within the city and the increased jobs, very very good jobs. They are not entry level jobs in all cases. They are quite good. Again, just a good neighbor Sam policy. We support the industry that is in our town. When they want to increase their production and also their people, I think it behooves us to back them to the hilt. I am voting yes. Kubby/And I know people want to characterize my vote as an anti-business vote. But to me, this vote is not in itself an anti-business or non-business friendly vote. For me, where I am coming from, is that I want to be a little more frugal with our General Fund and wanting to target our money that we have available for economic development projects where our money is going to make a difference for a locally owned business. That is just where I would prefer to target our local moneys. O'Donnell/I think it is money well spent. I will be supporting this. Lehman/Roll call- (4-1, Kubby-no). Carded, Kubby voting no. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 15 page 82 #15 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION CERTIFYING UNPAID WATER, WASTEWATER, SOLID WASTE AND RECYCLING CHARGES, INCLUDING FEES AND PENALTIES, FOR THE PROPERTY OF 1418 PINE STREET, PARCEL #55507000, TO THE COUNTY FOR COLLECTION IN THE SAME MANNER AS A PROPERTY TAX. Lehman/I did a little checking on this because normally we see these sort of things in a group with a number of them. My understanding is there is a possibility of this property being sold and that t protect the city's interest which in this case is in excess of $1,200, we need to attach liens. So this is why we are seeing this as a single item. Is there a motion for approval? Moved by Thomberry, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion. Kubby/Are the owners of the property around? The owners of the property get a chance to speak if they want, right? But I guess they are not here. Norton/Is this a fairly unusual circumstance? Lehman/Yes, I think it is. Dianna Furman/It is not something that we regularly do but as it was explained, we think the property will be sold this month and so we wanted to proceed with this. To attach itself, that the equity that would be there would cover this expense. O'Donnell/How did the bill get this high? Lehman/They didn't pay it. Furman/Exactly. It is a billing that goes back to February '97. So February through July '97 when the account closed. It is just accumulated bills. And I think there may have been one bill in that that was rather high but it was accumulated billings and non payment. Lehman/This just protects our interest in that property. Furman/Yes and the owner is well understanding why we are doing this and she has assured us that there should be equity in there to cover this so that the buyer of the property won't be adversely affected. Lehman/Okay. Roll call- (yes). Resolution is carded. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 16 page 83 #16 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING THE ANNUAL BUDGET FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 1999 Lehman/We had a presentation by Mr. Yucuis explaining part of the budget. This is the first consideration of the budget which will start July 1. Is there a motion to approve? Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Kubby. Discussion? Kubby/I always try to wait to see if someone else wants to speak before I speak but I do have a few things I want to say about the budget. Lehman/I will ask that Don or Steve at the final reading of the budget- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-42 SIDE 1 Atkins/I think the budget represents a number of modest changes. The process itself, I think has been fairly typical in the sense that most of our attention is drawn to the CIP as they have been in the past. Folks find that the most interesting. I think we are doing a number of renovations and some facilities, new park maintenance building, renovating the Senior Center, Mercer gymnasium. There are some very positive kinds of assets to be created to the municipal plan. Really, other than that, I don't know of any substantial changes in the thing. Kubby/I just think when one vote is worth $200 million that some comments about things you like and don't like. I will try to make my list really brief. There is a whole lot of things we could comment on but I mean, this is important because it is a lot of money. But it is important because it is, for me, the most important vote I make every year because it is implementing our community values and it is documenting them and implementing them to the budget and one of the things that we directed staff to do that may be a little different for next year is to come up with some ideas that we may choose from to increase the public process for developing a budget on the way front end instead of having the p.h. on the back end as the only way the public kind of gets involved. Through other than maybe someone being interested in a specific issue and approaching a department or something. So I will look forward to those ideas on how to create more public access to the process. There are some local economic development issues that are in the budget that I really appreciate. There is an ongoing and an increased commitment this year in his budget to local festivals and organizations like the Arts Fest, Friday Night Concert Series, Jazz Fest, Johnson County Historical Museum, Heritage Trees which although a modest increase, I think is a significant This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 16 page 84 message that this council really values those local economic development tools and local festivals that bring people to certain parts of town and value that local flavor. One of the local economic development expenditures that we make each year is to ICAD, the Iowa City Area Development group and they get $50,000 a year from the council and a couple of years ago some of us wanted a little bit more accountability from that private organization that we were working in parmership with for various kinds of economic development endeavors and got an annual report. It had one meeting but it has kind of dropped off since then and especially this year because they are having a shift in their focus on how they deal with economic development issues. I really think that accountability issue is more important than ever. That we are one of their biggest funders at 25% of their annual budget. We deserve, I think, a little bit different and more communication about that shift in what they are doing and it may be that we all agree with it but that communication is real important. And although switching gears to another local economic development issues, although trails aren't seen usually as economic development, I believe they are. That communities who have good pedestrian bicycle trails benefit from that in economic development sense and one of the people in our p.h.s kind of thanked us for our commitment up to this point but noticed in our CIP there was a waning commitment on the part of our trails and hoped to rectify that in our next process this coming fall for our CIPs. On a different note, one of the things that council did decide to do and this is a trend over the past 3 -4 years is that we have been kind of squirreling money away for certain big ticket items for buses, for fire trucks, and for parkland and we are not squirreling away money anymore for any of those things and eliminating the Parkland Acquisition Fund. It doesn't mean doesn't mean we won't fund those things but we will do them through bonding and we will pay interest on them. And for the Parkland Acquisition Fund, I would prefer to continue squirreling money away for that particular fund so that it is there when we need it, especially for those already developed neighborhoods in town like Miller Orchard that have a huge deficit ofparkland. And my last comment is about tort liabilities because it may be a modest amount of money. It is a shift in that it is one of the few property taxes that we can levy that we haven't been levying and we are going to start to levy it and I guess I want to be clear that in my mind what we are doing with that levy is paying for police officers in an indirect way. Atkins/I think that is correct. Kubby/Three years ago President Clinton signed the Crime Bill. What Iowa City got from that was a potential for 8 new police officers. We decided only to take six of them because we thought that is what we could afford to pay at the end of that three year match period. I personally would have chosen the number 3 for what This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 16 page 85 we could afford but we went with 6. And the choices after the grant period is to fund it locally or to say good-bye to three officers or six officers which I think our community would not be in favor of once we have those community police officers. So, we are levying this other thing that frees that money in the General Fund to pay for those officers. And so, when you see that new levy on your tax bill, it says tort liability but think police officers for now. And with that I will end my comments. There is a lot of other things that I could talk about but those are the things that come to my mind as some of the important issues. Norton/I have just got one quick on that. Okay. Karen alluded to this but we are going to, I think this fall, we are going to start our CIP work before the budget is put together. Start talking about capital improvements for the following year and start in the fall so that those will be discussed before the budget is actually put together and get it earlier and relate it to more specifically to the Comprehensive Plan that we have just recently adopted, the revised version of. So that is one important- I think there is another big change, an important feature in this. I think there is a serious commitment in this budget to the appearance of the city, not just downtown but in other regions. So we have made some steps to really move in making sure that is how people read the place when they look around, does it look attractive. Highway 6 and entrances and all around, not just downtown. To step up the appearance. Lehman/Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 17 page 86 #17 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINANCIAL PLAN FOR THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, IOWA, FOR FISCAL YEARS 1999 THROUGH 2001 AND THE MULTI-YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM THROUGH FISCAL YEAR 2002. Lehman/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion. Kubby/Although I don't think- Well, I don't agree with all of it and probably many of us don't agree with everything on there. I do agree with the majority of what is in here and I will certainly free to vote no on individual projects of which I don't agree with. Lehman/I think historically, this has been the plan. This is the way we intend to do things. Certainly we have never been totally locked into it. Any further comments? Roll call- (yes). Motion carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 18 page 87 #18 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DIRECTING SALE OF $8,500,000 CORPORATE PURPOSE GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS. Lehman/This are used for a variety of purposes and I think rather than go through them all, but there are a number of different purposes. We did get the bids today. The low bid was from Harris Trust and Savings Bank in Chicago at an interest rate of 4.698 which is an extremely attractive rate. Atkins/I have never seen it that low. Lehman/I mean that is tremendous from the city's perspective. Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Kubby. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). Resolution carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 19 page 88 #19 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AMENDING THE BUDGETED POSITIONS AT THE SENIOR CENTER AND THE AFSCME PAY PLAN. Lehman/There is a change in classification. Recommended that the full-time senior clerk typist be reclassified from Grade 6 to Grade 7. The annual cost to the city is approximately $1,000. Moved by Norton, seconded by Kubby. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 23 page 89 #23 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION. Lehman/City Council Information. Who would like to be first? Norton/I will go. I noticed that we have the rules for the Public Arts Committee and Ernie, you and I presumably as Rules Committee need to get together to- Didn't we get the by-laws from the Public Art Committee and we need to take a look at those sometime. I noticed also the BBC wants their name change. How do we do that? They want to leave Broadband off. Kubby/Say so be it. Norton/So be it, we just did it. Dilkes/And enabling ordinance, I think, will have to be- Karr/(Can't hear). Dilkes/Andy is working on that. Norton/Is it controversial if it is not Broadband anymore? Helling/Telecommunications. Norton/It is a lot easier than saying Broad Telecommunications. Helling/It is Broadband and everything else. Norton/Well, somebody will bring us an- I just wanted to say that Karen Kubby and I were in Des Moines for Legislative Day on last Wednesday and we have a few interesting points for a generally disappointing meeting. But some interesting activity at the state level. Also that we had a great time bowling, seven of us I guess. Five council members were there, Ernie and Mike and Dean and Dee Vanderhoef and myself were bowling and a couple of wives were bowling and we raised a lot of money. We raised a lot of money. Our team did very well, better there than on our bowling except Mike won, I should say that. That is it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 23 page 90 Thomberry/Okay. Last Saturday I represented the council to begin the Gala Fund-raiser for Special Olympics and this event is the only fund-raiser for the Special Olympics they have got all year. It was a well attended and huge success and I thank you, Ernie, for the opportunity to represent the council to this organization and wish them well for their Olympics. I am going to read a statement regarding a comment that was made earlier this evening regarding a project that was done in the Southeast part of town. This project referred to by Mr. Singer was near the Boyrum Street Burger King and was to relief the flooding and sewer surcharging for the Highland Neighborhood. The construction work was substantially on Highland Street, not Boyrum Street. The impact of this project was to improve the liability of the neighborhood, not the Burger King Restaurant which has never had a history of flooding or surcharging. This project was substantially done as a result of the 1993 flooding and the request from the Highland neighbors for the city to address their concerns. I was not even on the council at the time the city initiated the planning for this project and personally I am just outraged by the insinuations that were noted by Mr. Singer earlier this evening. That is all I got. Lehman/Dean, I think you were no more outraged than the rest of us. I think it was totally inappropriate. By the way, thank you for representing us at the Special Olympics. It is a wonderful thing and I am happy that we can be a part of it. Norton/Say, I want to add that I wasn't an official designee but I went to the- Didn't we all get invited to the Jumping Rope for the American Heart Association. Well, I went over last Friday morning, 100 kids there and I got beat by a few ropes. Thornberry/Did you jump? Norton/No, I didn't jump. I could hardly get out of the way. I just applaud it. I should have jumped but they were too busy. O'Donnell/I want to comment. Dean Rammelsberg sent us a letter. Has everybody had an opportunity to read that on recycling and I wanted to thank him for that letter. I think it is nice when citizens take the time to do that. I have had several calls this weekend being a relatively new member on the council, I am sure that I will be filled in on this. But the Kirkwood and Summit Street intersection. It seems like the cars are backing up on Summit and I realize- Well, it is fairly simple to figure out why this is happening with no lights or signs. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 23 page 91 Lehman/Too many cars. O'Donnell/However, I think it is becoming a safety issue now because cars are darting out from Summit onto Kirkwood. Norton/Trying to make a left onto Kirkwood. O'Donnell/And I think we need to look at that. Norton/I agree with that because I live a block from that intersection so I make it a lot of times and it is very very difficult to make that. O'Donnell/I think we need to take a second look at that one. Norton/Pardon me, will that be included when we do the Summit Street Bridge? Will they get down that far, Steve? Atkins/I am sure it is going to have some bearing on it. I think if Mike is getting calls, I would just assume have Doug Ripley take a look at her and see what some of the issues might be because I suspect he is getting calls also. Thomberry/Well, they did have a stop sign on that for a long time. Norton/Right but they moved that stopped sign to try to relieve the pressure on Summit Street. O'Donnell/And it has done it. I think we have safety issue there now. Atkins/Let me ask Doug to take a look at it and get some counts. Okay. O'Donnell/The second one is on Riverside Drive where we now have two lanes turning left onto Hwy 6 and I spoke to Traffic today and we are in process of correcting the problem. There is no line there guiding you. Norton/There are no lines anywhere. Kubby/And people are really close since they turn. O'Donnell/I was run into the ditch because somebody in the inside came to the outside. They turned on the outside. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 23 page 92 Norton/That can happen. You can be run into the railing on Burlington Street the same way. O'Donnell/The Traffic Department is going to line it as soon as the weather permits. I also wanted to comment on bowling. We did show up but it was very disappointing. That is all I have. Kubby/I had a really great bowling score. It was one of my next in the last couple of years and I only bowl a couple of times a year. So I was pretty happy. It was because I had the right ball this time. Usually it is a little too light or a little too heavy. Thornberry/Three digits? You got over 1007 Kubby/Oh, yeah. Thornberry/You didn't, did you Dee? What did you bowl? Kubby/I won't say. I will tell you later. Thornberry/It was three digits though. Kubby/I was second on my team. Brian Fleck is a good bowler. Two weeks ago I had asked about cleaning up sand on the bike lane on First Avenue and then realized that when I was around town today because I had stated that First Avenue is our only designated bike lane, that is not true. Benton Street. And that needs to be swept too. I mean, to talk about a safety issue. If people are wanting to ride in the street and be in the bike lane, they can't safely do it. It is so full of sand and I really think that when we plow snow, we have a priority of bus routes and things and I think when we sweep in the spring, that the two bike lanes on the street are really high priorities and would hope that within the next two weeks they could be done. Atkins/The issue is if it is warm enough. Next week it may be warm enough. Kubby/I also want to note that our last six buses with lifts in them are on line and so our full complement of buses for all routes are now accessible with a lift and so I hope people will take advantage of that, especially when the weather- As the weather This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098 ITEM NO. 23 page 93 gets warmer, it is easier for some people to get to the bus stop seasonally and hope people will take advantage of that. And lastly I want to invite everybody, including council members, to a meeting that is happening this Sunday, March 15, 2:00 PM, Iowa City Public Library. There is going to be a presentation about possibility and how it has worked in other communities to have a local currency. It started in Ithaca, New York and there are 40 communities who have local currency. That is like Iowa City money where you can trade money for time, you can trade Iowa City dollars for time. You can trade Iowa City dollars for money. A lot of local businesses in other communities take this form of payment and it allows people who have more time than salable skills to participate in a local economy and it has been very successful and so this meeting will be a presentation and discussion about how that might be able to work here in Iowa City. It is another form of local economic development. Thornberry/I volunteered to be the printer. Kubby/There has been a whole bunch of security issues that have been taken care of. So we are blazing any paths here. But it might be a good idea that might work in our community. So, that is all. Thanks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 10, 1998 F031098