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Home My WebLink About1997-07-28 Transcription (2)July 28, 1997 : Council Work Session page 1 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session 7:05 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Fosse, Fowler, Logsden, Trueblood, Schmadeke, Winstead. Tapes: 97-108, all; 97-109, all, 97-110, Side 1. Review Zoning Matters 97-108 S1 A. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6. ENTITLED "ZONING," ARTICLE E, ENTITLED "COMMERCIAL AND BUSINESS ZONES," SECTION 2, ENTITLED "NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL ZONE (CN- 1)," TO PERMIT ANY RETAIL OR PERSONAL SERVICE USE IN THE CN-1 ZONE WITH A SIZE LIMITATION TO HELP ENSURE NEIGHBORHOOD COMPATIBILITY. Franklin/First item is a p.h. on an ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance... to permit any retail and personal service use in the CN-1 zone with a size limitation. What this does is opens up the zone a little bit... allows any retail or personal service that is not already listed up to 2,000 square feet .... size limitation has been researched as shown in your materials in your packet. There was a range that we came up with .... decided on 2,000 square feet as an appropriate size .... to balance out allowing more uses in the CN-1 but still keeping them at a scale that they are targeted for... neighborhood uses .... Nov/Why isn't there a restriction on the size of everything rather than just everything except? Franklin/There are other restrictions on size, restaurants and grocery stores. But the other things that are listed were thought to be appropriate for a neighborhood commercial zone when we originally did deliberations about that zone when it was first conceived ..... many of them are consistent. Nov/I can see a reason why a videotape store should be allowed at 6,000 square feet and still be considered a neighborhood store ....That big, that is community commercial. Franklin/That aspect of it, Naomi, we not discussed in the Commission. It was decided that all of those uses that are there now, it has worked with them listed as they have been listed without restrictions and to leave that. But to inject the new This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 2 broader categories of retail and personal service, to put a limitation on the size of those. Norton/Those that are listed have no limits on size? .... Franklin/That is correct. Nov/That was my question ..... Kubby/If there is a majority of council who wants to direct P/Z to look at that other aspect, maybe we should go ahead with this change because there is some development going on .... and then, if there is a majority who wants to look at that, then we can direct that. Nov/This is just a p.h. I would like to continue the p.h. and have this discussion. Lehman/I agree with both of you. Will the change proposed... take care of a problem that we are currently having with this development? Franklin/Yes .... Walden Square .... suggested that amendments be made to the CN-1 zone instead to accommodate some of these other uses .... size limitation on them .... development of Walden Square is relying on this particular amendment to go forward .... Norton/I would certainly be interested in revisiting the other .... I share Naomi's concerns .... open it up a little bit now .... Kubby/ Nov/I don't want to face a store owner who says it isn't fair because I have this kind of store and not that kind of store. Norton/What about mixed stores? Franklin/We have those distinctions now .... grocery store right now has limitations on it as does restaurants ..... Nov/A restaurant is a different use, a retailer is not. Norton/She means selling products as distinct from selling services maybe. Nov/ ....I will go along with Karen's suggestion. Send it back to P/Z. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 3 Thornberry/I have two questions .... size limitation, is that one stow footprint? Franklin/No. Square footage of a use includes everything that is associated with that use except garages, porches, balconies. It includes basements, storage space, closets, bathrooms, everything. And that is the way the Zoning Ordinance has always been enforced. Lehman/ .... I guess I would need a little bit of explaining why we do basements ..... basement space .... is storage .... public does not go to the basement ..... mechanical .... many times it is relatively inexpensive space... for mechanical, storage, those kinds of things that you don't want to waste prime space on ..... Franklin/ .... The square footage is not just for the active public use. We use that square footage to determine the parking requirement ..... break it down, for instance, for restaurant .... When we are looking at a size limitation on a use and we only have those size limitations... very limited in the ordinance .... to get at that issue of scale. Then we are looking at the entire use .... includes the bathrooms, the closets, the storage areas, mechanical... because you need all of those things to support the use. They are integral to the use even though they are not where the public is actively participating in that use .... We look at the entire square footage of all of the uses that are associated with it and it is different from looking at the parking. Thomberry/ .... I think it should be change. If we are looking at neighborhood retail, I think the size the people see from the neighborhood and from the street .... that footprint is what people see ..... I don't think it is really fair to cut back one's retail space just because they are selling a bulky item as opposed to a- Vanderhoef/ ..... I was thinking about basements ..... foodstuffs.. large storage area .... Other things that don't bring people into the neighborhood .... don't change the usage of the place and create a inexpensive or a lesser expensive place .... like an employee lounge .... locker rooms .... office for that business ..... I think those are good uses of basement space that shouldn't be counted in total square footage. Franklin/When we look at the limitations for CN-1, we are looking at it not so much for the amount of space it takes up spatially, but we are looking at it for the intensity for that use and the likely patronage of it ....It should not be a size of use that is going to draw people to it from other areas ....If it is drawing from other areas, then it cease to be neighborhood commercial and it becomes community commercial. If you eliminate basements from the total square footage or if you eliminate storage .... what you allow then is a larger area for the actual operation to take place .... We used the Urban Land Institute figures as well as surveys of local This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 4 businesses to draw corollaries between what we thought we wanted to see in CN- 1 and the stores that we know about and we included the total square footage in that. Kubby/ Franklin/If you want to do this .... I would suggest... every time we have to decide whether it is public space or it is not, it becomes a point of decision making and some discretion and difference of opinion .... depends on who is looking at it then sometimes .... I would rather have a larger square footage and include the entire building than to break out basements of closets or hallways or bathrooms or stairwells. Vanderhoef/Would it not though increase the land use that you are using and make it more expensive? .... Franklin/Not necessarily. Vanderhoef/ .... If we decrease the usable part for the business where the patrons are .... put it on a smaller footprint and put a lot of these other things down 'underground, you could make a cost savings, it seems to me, for the developer ...... It is less expensive to have their offices underneath their business than it is if you try and crowd it on the first floor or put it in another location. Nov/ Vanderhoef/What I hear is we are discouraging putting a lot of those things in .... Franklin/I don't know if that is true ....they can work .... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/You still have the construction costs .... Lehman/If we are going to take another look at this anyway .... Franklin/Let me get straight, then, what you want. You want to look at limitations on the sizes of everything in CN-1 and you also want to look at eliminating non-public space from the square footage requirements. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 5 Lehman/I think Dean's illustration was pretty good. We are talking about the amount of space used by the public .... two extremes... I think we should look at the possibility of basement space not necessarily being- Franklin/Just basement space? What other spaces? Lehman/I like the idea of keeping neighborhood commercial as compact as we can do that. I think making basement space available for mechanical and non-public use, offices, storage or whatever, you can keep the development more compact. Norton/P/Z raised this from 1500 square feet to 2,000 and maybe we are thinking about this already .... Franklin/They raised it because of input from the public. Norton/ .... Why couldn't a person, for example, have a humongous florist shop, no size limit in a CN-1 zone which attracted traffic from all over town? Right now that would be possible, wouldn't it? .... Humongous drugstore? .... Franklin/That is the point of going back and looking. Nov/You could build a whole greenhouse. You could be a wholesale florist. Norton/It is hard to think of a giant shoe repair .... Nov/Consider various limits. I can't say that everything must fit into this 2,000 square feet because we have already said a grocery store can be larger. Maybe we want to say a drugstore can be larger. All of those things don't fit into the same category. Franklin/Okay, so you are going to go forward with this but you want us to revisit the size of all the other uses and look at eliminating non-public space from the square footage calculations. But I understand that for now we ...will include it. Nov/Yes, for now we do include it ....I hear four people who do. Franklin/The other provisions that are in this amendment have to do with the design provisions and that was to make mandatory three provisions that previously were more guidelines and they have to do with pedestrian access and blank walls and materials in pedestrian walkways .... Vanderhoef/Just while we are on the blank wall and so forth, I would just like to offer the flexibility of putting public art on that .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 6 Franklin/Do you want to offer an amendment, changes in plain material or color? Kubby/Use of art. Vanderhoef/Where you are specifically talking about the blank wall in particular .... Franklin/... Do you want to make an amendment to that tomorrow night or should we just include it in our other? Vanderhoef/Either. Franklin/Okay. Nov/It says at least one of the following methods .... one of the methods is color. So we have changes in plain building material or color, it doesn't preclude putting up a mural. Thomberry/ Lehman/ Franklin/ Council/ Nov/I could see a mural ....Would that fit under the ordinance? Franklin/Color, yeah, sure. I think we have got it in there. Council/ Vanderhoef/As long as it fits. Franklin/Should we go into the next item? B. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ENTITLED "ZONING," ARTICLE N, ENTITLED "OFF-STREET PARKING AND LOADING." TO INCREASE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL USES IN THE CB-5. CENTRAL BUSINESS SLIPPORT ZONE. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 7 Franklin/B. & c. are connected and those two items are ordinance amendments that reflect your discussion back on May 5 when you were talking about the Near Southside and changes in the residential parking facility impact fees. And there was a majority at that time to change the parking requirements such that the parking requirements in CB-5 would be the same as those in other multi-family zones and this was to act as a disincentive to residential development in CB-5. Also the parking facility impact fee ratio, the decision was to change that ratio as opposed to the amount and the ratio then would be payment for 75% of required spaces, 25% would be placed on site and no more than 25% would be placed on site. That is different from now .... The P/Z recommended approval of the parking requirements and the parking impact fee is just for your consideration. Any questions? Vanderhoef/When I was reading the ordinance, the impact fees can only be used for building and I started thinking in terms of maintenance .... Why is it we are disallowing using some of that impact fee from a late development in maintenance of that specific structure? Franklin/I believe it has to do with state law. An impact fee, you can use it for the need for a capital facility .... construction and acquisition of land for a parking facility. But that maintenance is paid for through the users of the system and it was hard to get equity in terms of the impact fee being responsible for maintenance. I think if we were at a point where we were not going to build anymore parking facilities, we will then rescind the parking impact fee because it would not be appropriate to continue to collect it. Vanderhoef/The impact fee has to be used in that area? Franklin/That is right. It is used for a capital project, not for maintenance. Vanderhoef/If it is legal to do so, is there some way we can write this that says when all of the ramp is paid off, in the future impact fees will be used for maintenance? .... Franklin/I don't believe it is legal .... You have to be very careful that you draw the distinction between an impact fee for a specific purpose versus a tax that would be more general and we can research that but I think that is my recollection of why we did it that way. C. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, "UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE" OF THE CITY CODE BY AMENDING CHAPTER 9, ARTICLE A, ENTITLED "PARKING FACILITY IMPACT FEE" TO REVISE THE FORMULA FOR PAYMENT IN THE CB-5 ZONE. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 8 D. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ENTITLED "ZONING," ARTICLE O, ENTITLED "SIGN REGULATIONS," TO PERMIT PROJECTING SIGNS AS A PROVISIONAL SIGN IN THE CB-5 AND CB-10 ZONES. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/The projecting signs. There is a memo from Eleanor and David in your packets that points out that we realized we needed to address the procedure for the Design Committee to look at projecting signs and there is amendment that is offered which basically says that we will adopt procedures and guidelines. That is the Design Review Committee and then with final approval by the City Council will adopt procedures and guidelines for approving projecting signs and that the procedures would be consistent with the Design Review Overlay which means that Design Review looks at it and it comes to the council only on appeal. That would be different only if it were part of a project that was under Urban Renewal law and was such to the regular Design Review Ordinance .... Norton/ Franklin/ E. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ENTITLED "ZONING," ARTICLE O, ENTITLED "SIGN REGULATIONS," TO PERMIT PORTABLE SIGNS AS A PROVISIONAL SIGN IN THE CB-2, CB-5, AND CB-10 ZONES. (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/The next item is the portable signs. That is pass and adopt. F. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14. CHAPTER 6, ENTITLED "ZONING." ARTICLE P, ENTITLED "FENCES AND HEDGES." TO CHANGE THE VISION TRIANGLE REQUIREMENT AT INTERSECTIONS. (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Same for visions triangle requirements. G. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT OF IRWIN SUBDIVISION, A REPLAT OF A PORTION OF LOT 24 OF MT. SCHRADER SUBDIVISION, A 3.07 ACRE, FOUR-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED ON WASHINGTON STREET, EAST OF FIRST AVENUE. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 9 Franklin/Approving the preliminary and final plat of Irwin Subdivision. This is a re-plat of a lot on Washington Street, east of First Avenue that would be divided into four residential lots. Do you want to see this? Kubby/I wish there was a way to get a street in to have more in-fill. Franklin/(Refers to plat map). These are the four lots that would be created with the subdivision. Yes, they are large lots .... driveway access onto Washington Street .... The Commission has recommended approval by a 6-0 vote. H. CONSIDER FORWARDING A LETTER TO THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A GOLF COURSE ON A 50 ACRE PROPERTY LOCATED NEAR THE INTERSECTION OF TAFT AVENUE AND HERBERT HOOVER HIGHWAY. Franklin/Considering forwarding a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending approval of the conditional use permit for a golf course... located near intersection of Taft Avenue and Herbert Hoover Highway. This is Highpoint Golf Course that will be expanded from a nine-hole golf course to an 18 hole golf course. We are looking at it because the County Zoning Ordinance provides the city can look at it. We have recommended and the P/Z Commission has concurred that the this be sent back with a recommendation of approval and that there be either an agreement between the County and the developer to pave Taft to get to the golf course or that the developer pave it and that comes right out of the County Zoning Ordinance. Kubby/Is the land currently used for agricultural purposes? Franklin/(Yes). Kubby/Do we know what the quality of that ag use is? Franklin/What the CSR is, I don't know. I don't think we have that information. Kubby/Is that something that our documents say that we should look at when we make a decision about this? Franklin/There are no guidelines, there are no criteria for looking at this. Norton/The County has guidelines. Franklin/They have their criteria and there is nothing that requires us to. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 10 Norton/No other problems with the roads adjacent to that?....No problem with the road back there? .... Franklin/No, the golf course is right up against 1-80 now .... Fox Hollow Subdivision that was on Taft and Local Road .... that subdivision has been rescinded... there is the possibility of developing that land .... that was not included in this particular property. I don't think there are any particular problems with this. Vanderhoef/Are they planning to enter the golf course from Taft? Franklin/From Taft. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/... Close up the old road from the other side? There is a road that goes to a residential development that is west of here (refers to map). Council/(All talking). Franklin/They are coming in from Taft. Council (All talking). Franklin/... There is a farm between High Point and Seven Sisters Road. Council/(All talking). I. CONSIDER FORWARDING A LETTER TO THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF A REZONING OF 46.86 ACRES LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF PRAIRIE DU CHIEN ROAD NE, APPROXIMATELY 1/4 MILE NORTH OF ITS INTERSECTION WITH NEWPORT ROAD~ FROM SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL (RS3) TO SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL .(RS). Franklin/Consider forwarding a letter to the Board of Supervisors recommending approval of rezoning a 46.86 acres located on the west side of Prairie du Chien Road. Did everybody get the general location of this one? This is- It use to be the Westcott's property and Jim Anderson and others.. processing of purchasing it. The property to the east was originally zoned A-l, rezoned it to RS-3 (refers to map). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 11 Kubby/ Franklin/It is a variation of clustering .... evolving process .... It takes the entire tract and 50% of it is in open space and that is the requirement and that is what allows you to go to RS zoning .... When Jim Anderson bought it, he wanted to do the more clustering and leaving more open space. He brought in the plat which was not consistent then with the zoning .... Going to have to get the RS-3 rezoned to RS and that is what this is about. This is a plat that we have look at previously .... Now the way it is clustered... is basically leaving a lot of this out of the lots and pulling them in closer to the stem roads. Kubby/Before they were all spread out? Franklin/Yes and the lots consumed all of the property? Nov/ ....Why not shorten the road and put houses on two sides? Franklin/Probably has to do with the topography .... then these lots are all looking at the open space here .... much more attractive lots ..... Norton/Was the...recent Fringe Area Agreement, was it a factor in leading to this arrangement? Franklin/Yes. Norton/ Franklin/Those of you... concept of having a road go in and having the houses gathered on one side .... Kubby/This isn't as helpful as the traditional kinds of clustering in terms of future service provisions. Norton/It certainly isn't. Franklin/One of the issues here... butting up against the Corps of Engineers property ..... many instances in the county where you could continue the streets on and have connections but they typically do not. Kubby/ Franklin/(Refers to map). I am not exactly sure where the boundary is. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 12 Kubby/ Franklin/ Thomberry/ Franklin/South, this is a farm and more agriculture land south. Kubby/Is it zoned Ag or RS? Franklin/I don't know. Norton/ Thomberry/I think it is kind of the best of both worlds ....leaves an awful lot of open space .... Vanderhoef/... allows people to get back in the outlots ..... Franklin/(Refers to map). Norton/Is there a common sewer plan? .... Franklin/I think these are all going to be on septics, individual. You will be seeing the plat. This is the rezoning ....The plat is in joint staff now and will be going to P/Z next week .... Vanderhoef/There was something in the P/Z minutes that talked about the realignment of Prairie du Chien. Can you tell me what that looks like? Franklin/That has to do with Prairie du Chien farther down. (Refers to map). The turn here, the County is going to straighten that out .... (Refers to map) .... Council/ Kubby/The plat really is relevant because the reason we might agree to this rezoning designation is because of the 50% open space .... Franklin/They will have to have 50% of it in open space to do RS zoning here .... They are agreeing to that. Exactly how that manifests itself, that is a separate discussion ..... This is what you will be seeing probably .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 13 Thomberry/Marian, can you hear everything that is going on the way we are talking this way? Karr/No, but we won't be sitting on this set-up again. Nov/Okay everybody, turn toward the microphone .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 14 SCOTT-SIX INDUSTRIAL PARK 97-108 S1 Franklin/Are we ready for the industrial park? You have got three items on your agenda... #6, 7, & 8. They all relate to the Scott-Six Industrial Park. The first is the Urban Renewal Plan. The second is the TIF Ordinance, pass and adopt. And the third is the Development Agreement. You have on your table tonight a revised Development Agreement... The Urban Renewal Plan and the TIF Ordinance are ready. I would recommend that you vote on those tomorrow night regardless of what you decide about the development agreement. We would like to go forward with that so we can work with some potential... companies that are looking at the industrial park. Let me just focus on the Development Agreement. We have been working with A1 and Mary Jo with the help of Bob Downer for some time to get this together... good agreement .... We have agreed that the land prices that are listed are appropriate .... We also looked at it over time .... What is in the agreement is that those prices would be the maximum that would be charged for those lots for a five year period or until the first nine lots are sold, whichever comes first. Some of that property will go for lower prices than is on that list. But what this sets out is the maximum that it could be sold for and I will tell you that those are competitive prices. The Development Agreement also provides- it outlines the different things that both parties have done throughout this whole partnership and the two important things for the council to be aware of in terms of the commitments that the city is making with this agreement is the assumption or the obligation of payment for the sewer and water and tap on fees. These are development tap on fees, not what an individual lot development would require .... And in this partnership, we are agreeing to assume the obligation for those fees. The second thing is we have agreed to assume ownership at no cost to the city and responsibility for outlots 3-4 which are the stormwater management area three years after the stream is relocated and the stormwater management plan is implemented .... Now before the Strebs will agree to sign this Development Agreement, they wish to resolve the issue of Freedom Court .... any questions that you have on the Development Agreement or what you will be voting on tomorrow night. Kubby/What is revised? ..... Franklin/And the addition on page 3, #8. That is is in the agreement .... it was not expressed. #5, page 2, what is changed is that we put in... in that first sentence after attachment B, for a period of five years or until nine lots have been sold, whichever comes first ....What we have done is taken a firm list that will be in effect for five years- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 15 CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-108 SIDE 2 Franklin/It will remain the same and that will be in affect for five years as opposed to the escalator which was an indefinite period of time. Baker/Karin, you described these prices as competitive. Can you very briefly explain? .... Franklin/The comparisons were to prices of other land in the area and in the Quad Cities ....advice from Mid-American Energy... ICAD ..... What is in the price list is a total ....$1.00 to $3.25 a square foot and I think it is very important for you to understand that some of these sales are likely to be less, particularly as this industrial park gets started. Kubby/In terms of the current inquiries about the land, how many lots would that take up? Franklin/I don't know... in terms of acres as opposed to lots ....probably we are talking about 10 to 20 acres or more. Kubby/ Franklin/Right now there is one entity that we are working with the anticipation of another entity that will follow that .....could be that they will take part of lots or combine more than one lot. Kubby/ .... We did something with Whispering Meadows ..... to create affordability in lots and the city gave up some things in order to have a lower price of lots and it was for 90 days and this kind of feels like that. Franklin/Five years is longer, considerably. Kubby/...creates similar atmosphere .... Franklin/The tradeoff is not having the escalator clause in there. The developer has taken a certain amount of risk in terms of the development happening in the time in which that is going to happen and that is why we had the escalator clause in there before .... to make sure one could still make money on it .... With the time limitation, it did not seem appropriate to have an escalator clause on it and so that was the tradeoff.... five year time limitation ..... Kubby/Doesn't having a more indefinite time period with an escalator insure competitiveness for a longer period of time? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 16 Franklin/It might ....want to get this started. Kubby/ Franklin/ Lehman/Other thing is even after this gets started, the obvious incentive for this development is to make money .... After the five year period .... they got to sell the land .... got to be competitive to do it. Franklin/I think within the five year period, if that will stimulate this project to get started, that that will re-pay the city for time and effort and money put into this .... Out of this all we have gained a lot so far and that is that we have this land in Iowa City, it is zoned industrial. The next step is to actually make it happen... Scott Blvd. Trunk Sewer... also is for the industrial park and this is the next step to try to get this moving ....people interested in this site ....good project for Iowa City .... Norton/...may entail some kind of incentives? .... Franklin/Yes. Norton/At what point ..... Will it come to us in a timely way so there is still time to have some input into that possibility? Franklin/We will get it to you as soon as we can. That is all I can say. Let's go on to the Freedom Court issue then. I want Jeff to present to you the memo that you have on your table .... It shows traffic counts, the justification and rational why we are concerned about the alignment of Freedom Court. Jeff Davidson/Karin did ask me to provide you the memo .... succinctly state why staff has taken the position that we have .... We would like you to know why we have taken the position that we have taken. We do feel like there are potentially some safety concerns .... taking such a strong position and we want to emphasize to you that our position is not based on some type of planning ideal that we think is a good idea. It is based on simply that we feel there are some potential safety concerns. These concerns won't be evident immediately but they will be evident eventually ..... traffic .... Potentially some of the highest traffic generators in the city and that is why we are concerned .... some very high traffic generators potential for this commercial subdivision and that is why we are taking such a strong position... Heinz Road, Freedom Court, Scott Blvd. being an arterial street This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 17 intersecting with an industrial subdivision and a commercial subdivision has a potential .... significant traffic generators .... city will be dealing with some traffic control issues in order to keep this a safe intersection. Lehman/What kind of traffic is Heinz Road generating? Davidson/Heinz Road is fairly modest as you can see... remaining lots on Heinz Blvd., are at this end of Heinz Road (refers to map)...projection... sheer number of vehicles is not that spectacular. The type of vehicle is a little more of a concern .... semi-truck... slow and long .... that is why the Heinz Road end of it is such a concem .... Freedom Court, the sheer number of vehicles .... Norton/Suppose Heinz Road didn't have any traffic... Are you still concerned? Davidson/If it were a T-intersection, Dee, we wouldn't be concerned about an offset- Norton/The offset feature is the thing that is bothering you, not just the action off this loop? Davidson/That is correct, it is the offset, the design. We would prefer to have them lined up and Karin can outline...options that have been presented to the developer. They have not been acceptable to the developer. Thomberry/If Freedom Court were to intersect on Scott Blvd at the same place that Heinz Road intersects, would there be that big of concern? Davidson/If we had a four-way intersection... staff would be comfortable with it .... Kubby/What about moving Heinz Road? Council/ Kubby/ ....so they have that number and configuration of lots .... Norton/I thought that earlier ..... Kubby/It shouldn't be at public's expense if that is an option .... Franklin/I was going to show you the three options (refers to overhead projection map). This is the developer's proposal .... loop street coming out here, that is one option. Other options is what we called an integrated commercial development which would require that you have some sharing of parking .... fewer lots in this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 18 configuration... could split this one if you have some shared parking here ....little bit harder to develop individual lots. Kubby/But that configuration is acceptable to staff because there is so much distance in between? Franklin/That is fight. The offset with Heinz Road is significant. This one is a very early one from the developer .... then rejected .... (refers to map). So those are the three options.. loop street, integrated commercial or this last one that I have shown you. I think basically it is up to the council as to which one you want to go for. We have a preliminary plat that is approved that allows development of the industrial portion of the subdivision but A1 and Mary Jo would like to get this settled before they go any further with this project. Thornberry/ Kubby/ Robert Downeft I think she has fairly stated what the options are as far as the configuration of that area. Kubby/Once it has been rezoned.. uses outlined... could all be on the high trip end. That we have an obligation to make sure intersections are safe in the future ....I think it is really important to have that offset... needs to be as on as possible. Nov/I think slightly off is not workable either... It has to be further south, further north .... Norton/Close enough so it can be signalized you mean? Kubby/Right .... Nov/A few feet .... Thomberry/It is like Governor Street hitting North Dodge ..... Norton/... everything is about where it was. Wow. Kubby/I guess I want to hear that people agree that having it be a straight intersection- Baker/Bob, was there any discussion of the possibility ofrealigning Heinz? Was that ever considered? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 19 Downer/It hasn't been and that is certainly something that we can take a look at .... Mary Jo reminded me, Dean, there was one other possibility that we talked about and that was making Freedom Court one way. Kubby/So people enter from the north and exit from the south? Downeft I don't know...which way that flow would be. We did propose a possibility .... Council/(All talking). Nov/You are going to have a left turn problem .... Franklin/We believe in the long ran- If you establish it as a one way .... that the people who eventually develop on those lots will petition the city council to change it to two-way .... It is possible but we believe that it is just going to be a future problem that we will have to deal with. Thomberry/Is there anyway to reconfigure Freedom Court so that it is not as deep, away from Scott Blvd. and go up further to connect closer to Heinz Road? Kubby/ Norton/Make one small lot in the comer, yeah .... Council/ Kubby/This is like designing golf courses. Baker/The basic question to council is do you want a head on intersection? Kubby/Yes. Baker/ Thomberry/Staff has made a compelling argument that if it is going to be an intersection, it needs to be an intersection ....compatible intersection on both sides as opposed to offset. I agree .... Nov/I like that t-intersection .... Norton/...that changes things considerably. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 20 Thomberry/If all of them are acceptable to staff, I am thinking.. ask the developer ....who are we to make the decision... Kubby/...Our decision is whether or not it has to be a head on intersection. Lehman/That is what we are being asked. Kubby/ Baker/If it is a head on intersection, you have two choices (refers to map). Norton/I don't see how we can get away from having them perpendicular .... Vanderhoef/The safety concern is too great. Downer/(Can't hear). Nov/We can't hear .... Norton/ Davidson/Heinz Road certainly can be moved .... that lot to the south is for sale .... we considered that site .... the statement that Mr. Streb made that wasn't picked up on the tape was that it was difficult for him to move Freedom Court any further north because of railroad tracks and the size of the lots. Nov/ ....Why not move it south?... Lehman/ Norton/We need a coherent intersection .... Nov/Enter somewhere further south .... Norton/Either they got to be together or further apart .... Thomberry/How much further apart? Council/ Nov/Some of these designs .... cul de sac... only one exit .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 21 Thomberry/ Baker/...The resolution of this question, how does it affect the decision we have to make tomorrow night? Franklin/The development agreement will not be signed by the developers until this question is resolved. So tomorrow night you then would vote on items #6 & 7 .... I suppose you could vote on the Development Agreement to authorize the mayor to sign. However we won't have a signature of the developer. So it won't be an agreement until it is fully executed. Since all of the terms of the Development Agreement are presumably agreeable, you could go ahead and vote on that also and then just understand that it will not be executed and it will not be an agreement in force until this issue is resolved. Baker/This issue is no where in the agreement? Franklin/No. Kubby/Seems like .... all of us is heading in a direction. Does that mean if it is not resolved in a certain way that the agreement will not be signed? .... Nov/ Kubby/Is it true that everyone here agrees that the intersection needs to be right across? Council/(All talking). Lehman/I think that is accurate. Norton/I would like to ask one other question .... I still don't understand why that lot 3 couldn't be smaller and restricted to certain kinds of uses? .... Nov/That is not our problem tonight. A1 Streb/(Can't hear). Intersections are far enough apart to satisfy the DOT .... Davidson/I have no idea what the DOT requires. I don't believe, Mr. Streb, that when the DOT looks at this they consider the land use issues to the degree that we do. They simply consider geometry of how the roads meet. What our staff... consider the type of uses .... It is because of the type of traffic, the degree of traffic when this is all built out it is going to be generating .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 22 Mary Jo Streb/I am curious why further north on Scott Blvd. you wouldn't want them lined up? Davidson/Are you talking about Lower West Branch Road?... probably if we were looking at that today, we wouldn't make that decision .... That is a situation where Lower Branch Road does not line up with Scott Blvd. we don't feel is an ideal situation. Mary Jo Streb/ Kubby/When did that occur? Davidson/What they were trying to do... trying to make Lower West Branch Road hit Scott Blvd. at 90 degree angles .... I am not so sure... we would do that now .... Kubby/Do you know when that decision was made? ..... Davidson/Late 70's. Nov/I think we have said enough about this particular project... time to get into Public Art. Thomberry/ ..... Bob, tomorrow, could you come with- Is this set in stone that there is nothing else but this? .... One time .... coming out Scott Blvd into Lot 3 .... Kubby/A third option? Thomberry/Yes. Downeft This was one possibility that was looked at. Thomberry/ Nov/He said he would look at possibilities tonight .... Downer/If the question is one of- Is the depth of these lots that backup to the railroad, for example, absolutely irrevocably fixed? I doubt it. We have not looked .... at the possibility of a relocation of Heinz Road .... I will take a look at ..... Thomberry/We are trying to make this thing work for everybody. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 23 Norton/I would sure hate for us to not make it work but we have to find a reasonable way. Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 24 PUBLIC ART 97-108 S2 Nov/Karin, are you going to do the Public Art? Franklin/Yes. You received a packet of information... memo from Rick to Steve about the whole concept of public art in infrastructure projects .... program... What I thought we would try to do tonight is make sure that everybody understood what a public art program would be about and then get to the questions that I have outlined here .... Nov/Let's spend some time on it. Franklin/... to answer some of the questions. Then at your next meeting, I try to put together a proposal for you based on what we talk about tonight. Nov/Questions on percentages and which projects .... Franklin/I am assuming that there are four people who want to pursue this and those of you who don't can just take a nap. Okay, let's address then the first question. First of all, remember this is public projects, projects we do as a city... allocating a certain proportion of that budget that would go to public art .... Baker/ .... You started out by saying this was a dedication, use a part of the budget for public art. Is this the same thing as saying we are going to increase the budget for public art? Franklin/Yes because what you do is you take your estimate of a project and then you take whatever your percentage is .... and you add that to the project. Baker/Okay .... Franklin/When we do those estimates, it is based on the engineering to do the particular project .....Variability. One of the things to look at is when you apply that percent ....If the public art is not going to be decided upon until the public art is complete, you then can use your actual cost. However, if it is going to be an art from which is integral to to project such as a wall of a building... you need to take the percentage out at the beginning .... Norton/How do you deal with... rebuilding Iowa Avenue Bridge and you decide to put in those beautiful arches underneath, is that art or is that the project? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 25 Franklin/That is up to you to decide... that could be part of what you consider to be public art .... It should be obvious to people that it is art, that is not just ornamentation. Lehman/You say it should be obvious. That is a oxymoron right there. Kubby/ Lehman/I think Rick's memo to us. I think there are things that can be done to increase the esthetic value of...Public Work's projects .... Franklin/If you decide that part of the percentage that is set aside... allocated... is the esthetics of design ....particularly on certain projects ....Determination that you would need to make .... Norton/ Franklin/It is a distinction between an esthetic and art .... I think you can have an esthetic which means it is well designed... pleasing... but it is not necessarily art. Baker/... bridges are not the best example .... Council/(All talking). Baker/ Lehman/For example, the Melrose Avenue Project .... could have been a four lane not divided road .... Could that design be considered- Kubby/If the median had some kind of environmental sculpture ..... Norton/More explicitly art. Kubby/A piece of work that was commissioned for that space .... Thomberry/Does it have to be an individual outside made sculpture? Nov/Let's decide if we are going to apply this to every street that is built. We could say it only applies to buildings or remodeling of buildings, period. Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 26 Kubby/ .... Water Plant .... the extra percentage, would that have come from water and sewer fees? Or does that come from the General Fund? Franklin/That is up to you also .... just incorporated into the project and what funding they are using to fund that project .... Kubby/ Franklin/Federal funds.. Portland, Oregon .... FTA .... proponent of public art ..... I would expect you could extrapolate to other federal funds also ....Just make it part of the project .... Nov/Are we going to say the entire cost .....or just the building, just the structure that people are seeing will be included? Franklin/Let's go to the second question. I think the percent is going to be a hard one to land on ....Second one which is what project should be subject to an arts allocation .....CIP... I put an asterisk next to the ones where I could conceive that you could have public art as part of that project in some manifestation .... Building construction and expansion is a fairly easy one... either... part of a building .... good design as base line .... Lehman/Good design functionally does not have to be esthetically pleasing. Kubby/Is this art or function? Lehman/ Baker/You can design a very functional road. Norton/... Every project that is visible should have esthetic qualities .... a component in the design when we review it. And then we are talking about enhancing beyond that, I think, here. Thornberry/...Burlington Street ..... When we build a street, do we build one with those trees in there ..... esthetically pleasing... or completely super-functional which Burlington Street is .... Norton/Bricks are lovely. Franklin/Okay, can we agree that there are probably three different levels. 1- Strictly functional. Other is functional with good design... something more into it than just This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 27 basic functional, esthetics, yes. Then there is art. What we are talking about in terms of public arts... is that third one. Baker/I want to go back to the second one... consensus as to whether or not there is city commitment to esthetics in projects. Norton/There should be. Nov/I think there was ....that commitment was expressed last year, year before. Norton/We don't want everything to be grizzly. Franklin/Not grizzly. Kubby/I don't think we have ever made a public statement or voted on something that said we believe this community has good design as a value and that we are going to live that out .... Baker/We jumped from the first to the second... Franklin/We have evolved to that second even though there was never a public statement of policy. Norton/I would think there would be consensus of the esthetics .... Baker/Now I am ready to go. Lehman/...key thing... Public Work's projects... those should be as esthetically pleasing as we can make it ....I believe if we want public art, it should be associated with new buildings. Kubby/What about the Ped Mall? ...functionally reasons to have public art .... helps create more value in the public arena ..... Lehman/But I think public art could be incorporated into any specific project- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-109 SIDE 1 Kubby/A percentage for buildings and a policy in these other areas. Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 28 Lehman/ Thomberry/Functionality has to come first. I don't care what color those big round sewer piles are underground .... They are going to be covered up with dirt. Anything that is seen... evolves throughout the ages .... old buildings in Iowa City are now pleasing .... What is esthetically and artsy and pleasing now may not be 20-30 years from now. But the functionality has to come first. Does it do what it is intended to do. Secondly, I think the second stage is where we are now and I don't think that a third stage requiring to hire an artists to put a statue on something on any municipal building is necessary. Norton/Well there is a consensus that we are going to look at that possibility ..... Kubby/(Can't hear) a majority. Nov/There was a majority. Norton/There was certainly an agreement that we were going to try that in places .... Thomberry/ Kubby/ ....they have to understand the sense of place before they do their design .... Council/(All talking). Franklin/Can we just address the list? Ernie said and I think there was general agreement Building Construction and expansions. Norton/Major remodeling, too. I say why not .... Franklin/Okay. Nov/Yes, this building remodeling can be included as far as I am concemed. Atkins/Karin, can I make another option because I think you are going to wear yourself out going down that list. What if you were to adopt a public art policy, a statement of some kind ..... With that public art policy you would explain how you would feel about public art .... You would then annually have a budget for public art, an annual appropriation of money. We then bring back to you the CIP each year .... you go through those projects and at time you can assign a percentage to generate the moneys to fulfill the commitment that you have under your public art policy. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 29 Council/ Atkins/By having the public art policy, we can then incorporate that and you can have the percentage set aside to get you the money that you want. Nov/I still like the 1/2 of 1% rather than X thousand dollars. Atkins/You have created a target for yourself to fulfill your public policy statement .... Kubby/Some of my initial reactions to that suggestion is that... it leaves it up to this group every year .... as to whether it is going to happen that year .... I don't want to leave it up to the swings of the organization... needs to be something consistent. Baker/ Kubby/Under this scenario, you could choose not to do it. Baker/But you ought to have that choice. Norton/Build into every major building effort .... 1/2 of 1% goes in there .... Lehman/I can't really see a $50,000 piece of art on top of the sewer building. Norton/ Kubby/Our sewage treatment plant should have public art .... Nov/Something along the park... along the trail .... Vanderhoef/We are talking about percentages rather than looking at a total policy and within that policy we could set a minimum of what will be expended each year .... Look at CIP .... let's group it and do something really special .... Public art needs to be seen so I don't necessarily agree with you on the sewer plant ....We could have the flexibility then of taking two years .... Kubby/If we have a project that is phased... wouldn't do it piece meal .... Vanderhoef/ Nov/Write up a policy with 1/2 of 1% minimum and let's talk about restrictions and type of construction that will be included. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 30 Norton/...modest percentage on limited set of things .... Baker/If you say 1% of X projects, you are always the slave of the projects as opposed to having a regular fixed budget .... having a steady source like a public arts fund. I like that .... important thing is to generate the funds somehow .... Vanderhoef/We could set whatever figure we want. Nov/I am saying if you are going to build a new building... 1/2 of that 1% of that project ought to be spent on art .... Kubby/... it is not at the whim of each individual project and of each individual council. That is happens whether it is through a percentage and we decide what projects it works on .... We can't decide not to do it because a certain group gets elected that isn't supportive of this. Baker/That is a reflection of the people who elected them. Franklin/It can always change with a new- Council/(All talking). Kubby/... that there is this value there that we want something that is an expectation. Baker/Of public art. We agree on that .... I have been involved in other organizations... line item budget and because it is there, you feel obligated to spend it .... My concern is we are mandating a fund that we have to spend on subjective judgment. Franklin/Are you talking about establishing a policy? One of the questions... whether this is an ordinance or a policy? Kubby/Ordinance. Lehman/Policy. Vanderhoef/Policy. Kubby/Ordinance. Norton/Ordinance. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 31 Council/(All talking). Norton/Suppose $50,000 generated this year or $10,000 .... Arts Commission... doesn't find a proper way to spend that .... Do you know anything about how that works? Franklin/In the state law as it applies to the University, as I read it... as they practice it, you can't transfer the funds that come from one project to a piece of art for another project. You can administer them collectively .... The funds that come from that particular project... go for that particular building or project. Council/(All talking). Franklin/The idea is that the art is associated with the project and that it is a public project .... Baker/My concern is we are fled into the money, project, location ....A public art program not tied to the location. Kubby/That is a fundamental disagreement because I appreciate the idea a lot that it is tied to place. Norton/It is tricky then. How do you generate money for the Ped Mall then?... Kubby/That is where you squeeze out your money from elsewhere. Norton/She said you can't transfer it. Kubby/You are not limited by this .....It doesn't mean you can't commit other funds .... Franklin/You could have two different programs... a percent of a budget that is by project and then you also could have a program that is an allocation of money. You can decide right now we want to put X number of dollars in the public art in city plaza .... I will come up with a proposal for your next meeting because I think otherwise we are going to go- To give you something to bat at .... look at what it is going to be for... on projects that you clearly can agree would be appropriate... building construction or city plaza or park development... not make it very broad... until we see it works .... may be more manageable. Lehman/Wouldn't a fund similar to the park acquisition fund be appropriate for this sort of thing? .... ! think it belongs from the General Fund. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session Council/(All talking). Baker/...budget problems with the General Fund .... Lehman/That is where it is going to come from, bottomline. Baker/No, it is not. Nov/The bond repayment are two different funds. This does not come into the General Fund. It comes into the bonds. Lehman/ Kubby/It makes a big difference on how we functionally run the city. It ties your hand. Lehman/What you are saying is the public will not allow this to come from the General Fund...? Thomberry/Where does the money come from? Nov/When you are selling bonds to build a building... building is costing you X million dollars .... Lehman/How do you pay off the bonds? Norton/It all comes out of public money .... Council/(All talking). Norton/...tax payers pay for everything and we are saying this is one more thing .... We are saying... burden... tums out to have economic advantages .... I want to be cautious about it .... Kubby/...modest strategic investment. Baker/I like Dee's, it is a virtuous burden. Thomberry/ Norton/...art that can be seen... gets into people's lives who pay for it. page 32 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 ' Council Work Session page 33 Thomberry/Remember when we get the engineer's estimate on this building, just add 5% for esthetics .... just to make an art sculpture to make it look nice... that is fine .... Norton/I was trying to be more modest than that, Dean. Nov/ ....we were talking about 1/2 of 1%. Thornberry/...it is just added cost ....I just think it can be engineered... to look nice ....I am level #2. Franklin/I will put something together for you for the 25th, okay? Council/(All talking). Nov/(Can't hear). Thank you, Karen. Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 34 HAWKEYE TRANSIT SERVICE 97-109 S1 Nov/Okay, Joe, let's move along. Fowler/We have been informed by University of Iowa that beginning Monday, August 25, Cambus will start serving Hawkeye Court/Hawkeye Drive area and our recommendation would be that we end service out there at the end of the day, Saturday, 23rd .....Doesn't seem much sense to duplicate service ....University will provide free service. This does affect several other routes ....7th Avenue .... Westport. The recommendation that we make... keep these two routes going.. combine Westport and 7th Avenue through the peak period. Downside... no service on 7th Avenue route during mid-day, 9:15 to 2:45 .... 7th Avenue would receive three trips in the morning and three trips in the aRemoon ....The result of this would be reduction of 3,598 hours of operating time per year ....savings in operating cost of $108,712 ....corresponding loss of revenue ....$91,057 in this coming year. Thornberry/ Fowler/ .... Net increase or operational savings per year of $17,655... also a reduction in our state funding which would not become effective until 1999 .... I can't tell you what that reduction in ridership would equate to in state funding. Kubby/Do you have figures on ridership on 7th avenue on mid-day? Fowler/We do but I don't have them on me. Kubby/I know it is not a lot .... elderly people .... When I ride it mid-day, there are a lot of people with disabilities and a lot of elderly .... Norton/We could probably get a report on that from your drivers. Fowler/We have got counts on each ride .... Norton/ Kubby/Is there any way .... could be .... reconfiguration of the routes... those people will have closer options...? Thomberry/What hours, Joe, wouldn't there be that there were? Fowler/Between 9:15 and 2:45. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session Thornberry/...how many buses ran during that period? Fowler/Five more, one an hour. Thornberry/ Kubby/ Fowler/I can give you the ridership through 11 months .... Norton/ Kubby/Reconfiguring routes. So the direction can be to make sure that people aren't left stranded mid-day in that area. What is happening with Westport during the day? Fowler/Westport after the peak is combined with the other routes ...... Lehman/This is your recommendation? Fowler/This is about the only way we can pair this up .... Norton/...trying to get somewhat closer to these folks that might not have some other option? Kubby/ ....they can move forward on the reconfiguration of the routes .... Baker/Joe, that $108,000, that cost reduction. Is that personnel? Fowler/Just over $69,000 of that is personnel. One full-time and two part-time positions would be affected. Nov/Joe, can we get a written report with all of this numbers? Personnel, hours, revenues, etc ..... Fowler/Sure. Kubby/Is there a way to find out the loss of state funding and the 7th Avenue mid-day ridership? Fowler/I think we could contact the state and Jeff would do that, find out the formula that they are using. page 35 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 ':~ CounCil Work Session page 36 Davidson/We have the formula (can't hear). Fowler/,... we are not going to lose everybody that is currently tiding Hawkeye. There will still be the Plaenview bus that is coming through there .... Thomberry/Marian, Jeff said he would take the figures and plug them into the formula. Kubby/The other thing about the 7th Avenue mid-day is that as all of our buses have lifts on them... people with disabilities .... that have told me that they would like to take the bus... cheaper to have them ride fixed route mid-day. Norton/Will you be looking at other or any modifications of other routes that could help cover the 7th Avenue gap? Fowler/Yes .... go ahead with our route study... this fall. Norton/ Kubby/Thanks. Norton/This goes into affect tight away .... Fowler/Goes into affect the 23rd ....We can put an informational in your packet between now and then .... Norton/ Kubby/By leaving it this way we are automatically saying yes to the three positions being gone .... Norton/Sounds to me it is a wash almost moneywise .... Fowler/Right now without a route study completed, it would be difficult to say that we could increase the number of people that work on our extra board .... end up with nine people making less money .... six people that have an expected level of income .... Kubby/Thanks, Joe. [Council Break] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 37 DUBUOUE STREET/KIMBALL ROAD SIDEWALK 97-109 S1 Nov/We are now on Dubuque Street/Kimball Road Sidewalk... Chuck .... Chuck Schmadeke/You have in your packet a memo from staff and a letter from the property owners along Dubuque Street explaining the issues on the sidewalk. I think it is down to the width of the sidewalk and whether it should be a four foot sidewalk or a six foot sidewalk. Norton/And who maintains it, right? Schmadeke/And who maintains it, right. Nov/If we can maintain a four foot sidewalk, what can we use on it? How would it work? .... Council/ Trueblood/We can maintain any size sidewalk city council tells us to is what it amounts to .... Six foot sidewalk is easier for us to maintain for snow removal... kind of equipment that we have .... Four foot sidewalk... could be more damaging to the turf along the edges... six foot brush .... Kubby/Is there a four foot sidewalk that Parks and Rec maintains now? Trueblood/Yes, brush wherever we can .... snowblower...shovels... It also depends on the construction of the sidewalk to a great extent .... Another concern .... we do have situations .... where people call and ask ifP/R is going to do snow removal on somebody's sidewalk because we do it along Scott Blvd ..... more and more sidewalks going in around town .... inquiry as to whether or not we handle the snow removal .... It was determined some time ago that the response would be no, we are not expanding upon our snow removal for residential sidewalks. Only in those cases where it abuts public property. Thornberry/ .... Could that be a four foot sidewalk along Dubuque Street raised to the extent so that it would not hurt the vegetation on both sides? Schmadeke/As I recall, for the most part I think we can .....from the back of the walk it is still a slope uphill. Thomberry/Have the brush stick out on the street side ....How wide are the tires on the brushes .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session Trueblood/...tires are on the sidewalk .... Thornberry/ Norton/Dean and I were down there and looked at it very carefully .... six foot setback and a four foot sidewalk seems to me, with city maintenance, seems to me a plausible answer. It is a difficult situation .... It is still the property owners up above...liability? .... slips and falls. Schmadeke/I would think that if we take on the maintenance, then the liability would be our responsibility. Kubby/ Norton/ Nov/Why not do a five foot setback and a five foot sidewalk? Schmadeke/We prefer a six foot setback because of the volume of traffic on the street. Nov/There is a lot of traffic along Rocky Shore Drive ..... Schmadeke/I don't think you have the speeds along Rocky Shore that you have along Dubuque Street. Council/ Thornberry/The speeds on Dubuque Street are excessive. Council/(All talking). Lehman/Who pays for any damage our sweeper might do to turf when we are sweeping the sidewalk? Schmadeke/I assume it would be our responsibility to maintain. Lehman/Seems to me that if we can maintain a six foot sidewalk easier .... If we choose to go to the four foot, I really don't think we should be responsible for repairing the turf because we could, in fact, do a six foot with no damage. page 38 Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 39 Lehman/If we go to the four foot, I don't think we should be responsible for the turf damage. Thomberry/ ....damage ....between the sidewalk and the curb .... Trueblood/Brush .... tilt it either to the tight or the left. Thomberry/Tilt that puppy... raised sidewalk ....brush isn't going to hit the stuff anyway .... Nov/...use the five foot brush ..... Trueblood/ .... That snow route, the primary piece of equipment used on that snow route is the tractor with the six foot brush .... Council/ Vanderhoef/What I am heating is it is most cost effective to do the six foot sidewalk and then it works in best with the maintenance. Trueblood/From our perspective we prefer a six foot sidewalk .... Thomberry/It makes sense to do a six foot sidewalk. However, until you walk it... six foot doesn't make sense ....Dee Norton and I and all the neighbors ....a four foot makes a whole lot of sense ....hill ....trees ....four foot really makes sense there if you look at the topography ....four foot sidewalk really makes sense .... Nov/Compromise on a five foot. Vanderhoef/Four foot raised with six foot setback. Thomberry/ Trueblood/My primary concern more so than the maintenance is for you to give me a response that I give the people when they ask me why do we remove the snow off that sidewalk and not my sidewalk. Schmadeke/We need a public easement from those people that live along there to put the sidewalk in. Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 40 Schmadeke/That is our justification for us maintaining it. Lehman/The public easement would then be the reason why you maintain the sidewalk. Nov/Stand up... near the table and be heard. John Shaw/I think the answer to your question is because the residents up in Bella Vista get no benefit from that sidewalk ..... far removed from their property .... It is something .... just assume not see happen .... consensus to support it if it can be done with certain design parameters ..... I think the fact the people have the property do not get any benefit out of the sidewalk, is a reasonable answer to that question .... Treeblood/...in my neighborhood ..... they can say they get no benefit out of that sidewalk .... but they still have to maintain it .... Lehman/Easement is their reason .... Treeblood/I think that is certainly a response. Ellen Widiss/Bloomington and Davenport are level .... here you have got folks living up on top of the hill .... no way of getting down to where the sidewalk is going to be .... impossible situation .... Thomberry/...dead-end street .... Norton/ Kubby/Other issue... once people get to the comer, how do they cross safely without having all of this green arrows tuming into their path? .... walk signal... Davidson/Just this morning I asked Doug Ripley and Guy Irvin... Streets Department... they will take a look at that and get back to me .... We will figure out something .... north side of the intersection, parallel to Park Road .....We will figure something out. Norton/...bushes that are along there ..... six by four will encroach on that line... Will they be moved or something new be put in there that buffers the sound? Schmadeke/We will check and see just where the four foot sidewalk lies. I think the bushes will probably have to come out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 2.8, 1997 Council Work Session page 41 Council/ Norton/They were put in to buffer the sound and the pollution running up the hill .... Something ought to be done to maintain that buffer... Schmadeke/If they can be transplanted back, they can do that ..... Thornberry/ ....they are not maintained by the homeowners. Norton/ Thomberry/ Vanderhoef/There may be some other choices... spiff up the entrance to the city. Thomberry/ Nov/I think we can easily agree to do the setback of six feet, sidewalk of four feet but I would hate to commit us to more plants right now .... decision ought to be down the road somewhere ..... Vanderhoef/I was looking at the total of project of Dubuque Street ..... Council/(All talking). Kubby/Has the neighborhood talked about that specific issue, John? Shaw/You are should have a copy of a letter I wrote. It has several items... consensus two items address additional vegetation... either relocation or replacement existing bushes .... 2-putting new plantings in .... public access through there .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-110 SIDE 2 Shaw/That runs up the hill... invitation to public foot traffic right up the hill there... requested we get some plantings to discourage increased pedestrian traffic up that hill also ..... Curious if it is council's intent to respond to the individual items in my letter or not? Norton/My feeling it gets very complicated... Why wouldn't the property owners up there who are getting the sidewalk .... take care of the plantings because you are on private property at that point?... maybe the property owners would take care of their screening .... I doubt the city ought to pick up the cost at this point. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 42 Thornberry/There are no plants there now. Shaw/Not on//12. There are on #8 and #10. Thornberry/There are no plants there now .... there is a path ....to get to the bus stop- Shaw/Do you agree that a sidewalk is going to generate more foot traffic? Lehman/I hope so. Shaw/.. increasing the likelihood of more pedestrian traffic. Thomberry/ .... I don't know if it is going to generate more traffic or not .... I don't think people will come down and walk more. They might cross safer .... Widiss/There are a fair number of people who said they avoid going down that way now who would be delighted to use it because it is a direct route .... Council/ Kubby/Maybe we could split this into two decisions ....install new plantings or transplant those places that currently have landscaping ....the other one is a separate decision for #12. Lehman/I would suggest we go ahead and do the sidewalk with six foot setback, replace plantings where we can and see what develops .... Norton/Are those established plantings .... ones put in and maintained by the city? That long run there .... If you try to plant up the hill.. private property? Schmadeke/Yes .... Norton/...new plantings ....I don't see the city picking up that whole tab. Baker/John's list...#3 1 have not problem with us taking of. #4 is debatable. Anything that is existing now should be replaced .... Nov/...Project Green put this in... nurtured those plants ..... People who do not want to maintain the sidewalk also do not want to come down the hill and fix the plants when they need it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 43 Baker/ Nov/New plants need tending and I don't hear anybody saying they are going to tend new plants. Baker/I am willing to put them in. Kubby/: Norton/We got to negotiate r.o.w. to get on there .... Council/ Shaw/There will be a construction easement associated with this sidewalk anyway .... Karr/I cannot get people who are sitting down .... Shaw/There will be a construction easement associated with the sidewalk anyhow and that will very likely be in the same area that any planting will be relocated to... new plantings be installed... If there is a concem about nurturing... commitment to take care of those plants .... Nov/...how are you going to get the hose out there... I am trying to say it is not our problem .... Council/ Lehman/Do it. Thornberry/Six foot, four foot. Lehman/Raised. Kubby/Replace the plants... Do we put in where there weren't plantings? Vanderhoef/No. Okay. Kubby/Thanks ..... neighbors working together ....good cooperation. Council/(All talking). Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 44 Widiss/Pleasure .... to have prompt responses .... city staff.... nice living in a place where that happens .... Thomberry/Thank you. Vanderhoef/Thanks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 45 WILLOW CREEK TRAIL PROJECT 97-109 S2 Rob Winstead/Ready for the short and sweet version .... Can I work from the table? .... introduce Laura Hawks. She is the designer with Landmark Survey and Engineering in Iowa City ..... put together the plans and specs for this project. (Refers to County aerial mapping/proposed trail map) .... black line is the proposed trail and the blue dashes is Willow Creek. Nov/Are you going to cross is twice? Winstead/Yes, we are. Trail is ten foot wide, constructed out of asphalt... small pedestrian bridges .... Council/(All talking). Winstead/We will have lots of openings... travel is about .7 mile in length ....at existing ground level... two bridge crossings. Kubby/Do we have property owners cooperation? Winstead/We are still in negotiation with them. We need easements from five different property owners... Walden Ridge .... Aspen Lake Condo. property .... existing storm water basin easement, existing sanitary sewer easement and it crosses this 100 foot wide gas main easement. We have been working with those folks... whole bunch of unsettled issues on it .... (refers to map) .... A lot of unsettled issues .... may be visiting about condemnation. We have already got the easement from the school district through here .... Walden Hills Subdivision .... same goes for Galway Hills .... (refers to map) ..... Laura Hawks/It also goes into Galway Hills Subdivision .... Winstead/There will be connections to West High School .... to Walden Hills Subdivision and Galway Hills .... ten feet wide? Thornberry/...Is that maintained in the winter time? Trueblood/Most likely .... Thomberry/ Norton/Interesting ....what overall trail plans for that? Do we have that concept somewhere? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 46 Davidson/We are hoping to eventually get permission from DOT to go underneath .... no plans to take it further west .... Winstead/We have got tree removals within the trailway through here (refers to map) .... Thornberry/What is the cost of that trail? Winstead/Our estimate is $211,000 ..... bidding this, if it is approved, late in the construction season .... If everything goes as planned and it is approved, we would finish this project by the middle of November this year. Kubby/Great .... Vanderhoef/Other trails .... Winstead/I mentioned we are removing trees but we are also planting trees and shrubs (refers to map). Norton/Will there be a way from Rohret Road to get over there? Vanderhoef/Yes .... Norton/ Davidson/ Council/(All talking). Nov/Thank you, Laura .... Council/(All talking). Thornberry/Are you talking friendly condemnation or unfriendly? Winstead/I would say this could be an unfriendly condemnation .... easement through that property appraised (refers to map). It came back in the $9500 range. Nov/Can we do a very quick council time? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 47 COUNCIL AGENDA/COUNCIL TIME 97-109 S2 1. Vanderhoef/(Agenda #25- FY97 PARATRANSIT SERVICE) If you will bear with me I probably am just going to read it .... Dean and I have been working on the Iowa City Paratransit negotiation and there has been some confusing information put out in the paper that might have led you to believe that we were satisfied with a contract proposal of $560,000 for the '98 contract year to be followed by 9% increase in '99 and 4% increase in 2000 .... This is not our position. What we seem to have is a bit of a stalemate .... update you... bringing you the information of where the negotiations presently stand .... inform... councilors as much as possible before the press. Dean and I have offered to split the difference between what the county asked for, which was $580,000 and the 4% increase over FY97 actual costs of $540,000 that we proposed. This amounts to a contract .... $560,000 and a 8% increase for '98. At the same time the county has offered to prorate back to the city our share... of any unexpended funds from FY97 budgeted amount. That amount was approximately $102,000 which amounts to just less than $50,000 for Iowa City. They are also willing to do this in the future contract years .... We have put into place some policies and procedures that will set standards for service and for reporting procedures. The two staffs have been working on designing the monthly reports .... for accurate auditing. The county says they can accomplish these contracted actions. Of note, to date, the city has not received one monthly report that the county contracted last year to give the city on a monthly basis during the FY97 contract year. Their story is that the new computer and computer program... still is not fully operational. It has been difficult for Dean and I to negotiate without actual figures. The data we received from the county on June 2 was from a one week period this past spring ..... We have negotiated a $3,000 per month penalty for non-performance on the contract to encourage their prompt and accurate reporting in the upcoming contract. The county wants a three year contract at the suggested figure of $560,000, 8%, for FY98 and rate increases of 9% and 4%... remaining years. The 9% rate for the second year includes a 4% inflation factor plus a 5% discount figure that the county has historically given Iowa City to cover the double taxation for Iowa City residents .... they have a rural levy that taxes only the unincorporated areas of Johnson County. They also have a general levy that includes Iowa City as well as all the smaller towns in Johnson County. The county levies and pays for paratransit service from the General Fund. The citizens of Iowa City make up 70% of the population that are taxed by the county for this service. As you well know, Iowa Citians are taxed for both property and special levies that include $.95 per $1,000 assessed value for transportation. It is from these funds that we Iowa Citians pay for both our fixed route bus service and paratranist services. The 5% discount from the county has been the adjustment for this fact of double taxation for Iowa City residents. Dean and I are not supporting the 9% increase ..... We This represents only a reasonably accurate transcriptionof the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Conncil Work Session page 48 cannot understand why the county's rational has changed while they continue the same pattern of taxation and payment. This seems to be the major sticking point for completing a longer contract with the county. Dean and I are recommending to council a one year contract with Johnson County for paratransit services for Iowa City residents ..... Any questions? Kubby/What does that amount do to the number of dedicated vehicles in being able to meet our ADA obligations? Vanderhoef/There are no dedicated vehicles .... I am pleased where we are with the rest of the contract and the things that the staffs have been able to put together .... We are just primarily stuck on this figure of money .... We started with 4% and we negotiated to split the difference with them from $540- between $540- and $580- and offer the $560- that took us right up to the 8%. However, if it is over budgeted we will get pro-rated back and next year we will have more complete figures .... Norton/So it is the increase in the first out year- County... could levy all of that into the rural fund and then do 28E agreements with all the other towns. Thomberry/They could charge Lone Tree, Oxford, Tiffin ..... They have not been. Kubby/Couple of years ago .... contracts .... with the ADA it became our obligation to pay for those instead of those agencies paying for them ....ease the pain ....10% discount... 5% discount .... Vanderhoef/This has been going on for many years .... double taxation thing .... Kubby/I had never heard of a discount rectifying that issue of double taxation. Thomberry/That is where the county and council came to that understanding several years ago. Kubby/...why is it back on? Vanderhoef/The contract right now ends with that right now and the County negotiations are saying- Kubby/I had never heard that. Darrel was one of the most outspoken people about the double taxation issue .... I have never heard that that issue has been rectified in this manner. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 49 Davidson/I was there for all of those discussions. Karen is absolutely right and Dee... absolutely right. It was to placate the city on both of those issues. The Systems Unlimited issue and of course, Systems has continued to put in a token amount but not what Iowa City felt was their full amount and the double taxation issue .... Norton/What are they threatening to do with that? What is the change that they are recommending that you are objecting to? Thomberry/The 12%. Vanderhoef/And it would be in there forever and we would be double taxed forever. Thomberry/And then the 4% next year would be on top of. .... Kubby/We don't know that 5% covers the double taxation... Is there a way that we can plug in any of our formulas or any of our budgets to figure out what that percentage or that amount of taxation is? .... Thornberry/ Vanderhoef/All we have to do is...levying on rural levy and through their 28E agreements... then it affect us at all. Norton/ ....charge the particular community with their actual piece. Vanderhoef/For the paratransit service. Kubby/The one thing.. concerned about... done one year contracts... painful every time... interesting to say .... Nov/We want a multi-year contract also ..... last year we said we are going to have some real numbers...real cost... multi-year contract. We didn't get those numbers. Thomberry/I would be willing to recommend a three year contract if they would take the 5% out. If they do not want to take out the 5%, we still have to have the service... we will continue with a one year contract and at the end of our contract, our transit service will take it over .... Kubby/I am not prepared to make that kind of statement now. Baker/I am prepared for a one year contract. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 50 Nov/I would rather go with a one year contract instead of this. Thomberry/We have looked at several different options .... We got $25.00 an hour from the private firm ....Riverbend ....It is a system... not just an Iowa City system .... integrated system ....not another 5% more .... Norton/Do you consider the alternative to the 5% a separate 28E agreement? Thomberry/I don't care... how they do it. Vanderhoef/As long as Iowa Citians are being taxed- Thomberry/Fairly. Lehman/Do we have any assurance... that we are going to get the kinds of hard numbers that we have been asking for? .... Will we have that information? Thornberry/ ....We asked for $5,000 per month penalty if we don't get the reports... they balked .... We negotiated a $3,000 per month penalty if they don't provide proper reports .... One person who is in charge of... paratransit... for the county that does the computer work... responsible for the reporting. The problem is he has gone into the hospital and won't be out for sometime .... Lehman/I really have not problem with a one year contract. I have a real problem with a multi-year contract without good numbers. Thomberry/We have not numbers .... We won't be able to get any numbers for six months. Council/ Norton/Are we at a decision point here tonight? Vanderhoef/What I would like right now is a nod of heads if you are agreeing with how we are progressing with the one year contract and the county will be talking about it before we have our next meeting. Lehman/Is it best that you put together a package and come back to us with that package? .... Vanderhoef/What I am really asking you for then is if you are comfortable with a one year contract with a- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 51 Council/(All talking). Norton/One year at $560- and get out the 5%. Council/(All talking). Thomberry/We have to look at the data they can produce... not for six months ..... Vanderhoef/One of the things ...concerned... computer system not working... there isn't anyone who has done backup on it ..... We have offered help. Thomberry/...they declined... problem is he has got something that might be awhile... they don't have anybody else to take over at this point ....They don't have an acting assistant ....nobody else that can fill in his shoes ....There is a problem there. Vanderhoef/I think I have my answer. Nov/I see four heads nodding. Norton/You are on the right track. Nov/Does anyone else have something tonight? 2. Baker/I got a letter from a Kathleen Janz from Goosetown about some traffic problems in her neighborhood. Did anyone else get it? I asked Marian to make a copy. She will hand out tomorrow. I will talk about it tomorrow night. 3. Nov/I have a couple of letters on First Avenue. I want to be sure everybody has those. One of them is the (Jesse) Irwins, another one is Joyce Anne Munson Welsh ..... 4. Norton/I want to bring up ....the matter of the fountain. Steve, what is the future of the fountain? .... Atkins/That fountain was not designed to have people bathing in it and playing. Norton/ Arkins/When we learned what we leamed about that issue, we are doing all the investigation that we can and to rum it back on now, there is an element of risk. We can't guarantee. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 52 Norton/What if you don't recycle it? Just run water and let it go, don't recycle it .....a hose .... Atkins/We should have some more information for you by next week. I just can't promise you. Norton/...one micron filter ....curious... Atkins/It may be a unique situation .... Kubby/How do we assess what the risk is? ..... Atkins/I have no idea. Norton/How many other communities have had this problem? Atkins/I have no idea. Norton/I think it wise to be cautious but I don't want to just sit and do nothing. Council/(All talking). Atkins/If you want us to turn it on, we will turn it on. Norton/ ....fancy filtering system ....We got to be finding that out. Lehman/ ....I would hate to see us do any major expenditure on a fountain .... Norton/My son called me from Minnesota .... I got the fountain shut off.... Council (All talking). Atkins/We can turn the fountain back on. Norton/Can we turn it just during the Friday evening concert? Council (All talking). Norton/I am for turning it on... it is hot. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 53 Thornberry/Now this has hit the paper... problems for getting sick....I don't know if you are going to have more complaints .... Kubby/ .....use the city water in the fountain... dangerous ....Until we make a determination that the risk- Norton/ Atkins/I can assure you when we do turn it back on .... Norton/Not going to be 100% sure ..... Council/(All talking). Schmadeke/(Can't hear). Kubby/What is the time frame for answering those questions you just outlined? Schmadeke/(Can't hear) Couple of weeks. Thomberry/Put this mind set into people ....they are going to say- Norton/We are not the first people to have a fountain .... Lehman/ ....got something that is a lot more serious than a broken part ....risk Norton/I am saying there are hundreds of fountains all of which are participatory ..... What kind of filter do they have, how much trouble do they encounter and how do they manage the risk? Kubby/Would maintain that our population in Iowa City has a higher immune deficiency rate than many because of the hospitals that are here ..... Norton/ Kubby/ ....a reasonable risk assessment .... Norton/In the meantime find some way to run the water down the drain ..... Thomberry/That thing puts out a lot of water ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 54 Norton/Chlorinate it .... they won't want to get in there .... Turn on a hose Friday evening from 5:00 to 8:00 .... Dilkes/Once the decision is made to turn it off, it makes me uncomfortable to turn it back on until we figure it out. Atkins/(Can't hear). Council/(All talking). Kubby/Go from 5:00 to 9:00 PM every Friday night until we get- Norton/Run it Friday and let the water go down the tubes. Lehman/Put up a sign that says playing in this fountain could result in your death. Dilkes/A warning won't do it. Norton/It is not going to recirculate. Council/ 5. Kubby/...about the skywalk and I don't want to get into the issue of whether you like it or not. I do want to brainstorm for those of us who don't like it about there is no kind of accountability or direct public process .... University... to say what they are going to do with their design .... I want to know who are the players I can be contacting informally to say that this design does no meet the criteria of creating a gateway to downtown .... Vanderhoef/I think I can answer .... I called Dick Gibson today with my own comments ....he said if I had an opportunity... he would welcome hearing from any of you ....to call and talk about the process ....He has been receiving .... Norton/ Kubby/I am bringing it up to get a list of who the players are... as individual council members... put pressure on so this thing doesn't get built. Council/(All talking). Nov/Mary Sue Coleman. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 55 Lehman/Would it be appropriate for us as a council to .... informally inform those two individuals...? Thornberry/Is it completely unanimous that we are apprehensive of the current design? Lehman/That is very good terminology. Norton/I am still trying to come to terms with it ....I just looked at the pictures. Nov/Then you ought to go to the Museum and look at the model. Norton/ Nov/University Art Museum. Baker/I have been telling ....you need to direct that concern to Mr. Gibson... University .... quantity of concerns .... Norton/...they have got their own process ....I don't know who has to bless it. Baker/Weren't we told that a tunnel was too expansive? .... Skywalk is going to be $1/2 million. Council (All talking). Nov/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 9% 110 SIDE 1 Baker/The original cost of the tunnel is less than the cost of the skywalk. Norton/I hope this is not an example of what you get when you ask for esthetic components in a public- Baker/ Norton/ Nov/Think about it. If you want to go over and look at it, look at it. Thornberry/A timeline on this thing, huh? How much longer are they going to do input? Nov/I suspect they are not going to- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 56 Norton/Emie was saying should we try collectively to do something. Baker/Let's talk about it tomorrow night. Council/ Thornberry/Just say contact Dick Gibson .... numbers we could make it easy for people to call .... Kubby/Ask Larry to make a little card. Baker/Not a bad idea. Thornberry/ Baker/We need to get a card printed up. Thomberry/ 6. Nov/Do we want a joint meeting with the Airport Commission to talk about commercial development, science center, public works, etc. If so, we can get together sometime in September? Baker/Didn't we have that meeting? Council/ Thomberry/This is my feeling... city has said .... Nov/We are not going to analyze it.. just yes or no, do we want to get together? Everybody nodding heads- Thornberry/Yes. Vanderhoef/I am not sure how many different groups we ought to have together but yes, I would like to talk. Nov/Okay, if we need other groups we can invite other groups. Marian and I will work out a calendar. Lehman/Just Airport Commission. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897 July 28, 1997 Council Work Session page 57 Nov/Okay. 7. Nov/If anyone has comments on the Disselhorse idea, get them to me and we will try to answer it. If we don't hear anything, I am not going to worry about it. 8. Nov/There is a meeting on liquor control law changes August 5 in the Pappajohn Building. Two sessions, 11:00 AM or 6:30 PM .... Designed for licensees ..... 9. Karr/Did you all receive the Iowa Avenue Streetscape Plan invitation? If more than three of you go, I need to know that because it becomes a work session. Norton/August 4, a briefing on Iowa Avenue Streetscape ..... Karr/Monday, August 4, in the Chambers. Lehman/Can't go. Norton/I can't go. Baker/I can't go. Kubby/I can't go either. Baker/I am in Alabama. Vanderhoef/I won't be in town. Norton/Five out of town. Thornberry/I have got a... meeting in Omaha .... Nov/Sounds like six people are out of town. Norton/No problem with four ..... I am going to send my comments but I can't go to the meeting. Adjourned: 10:25 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 28, 1997 WS072897