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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-11-03 TranscriptionNovember 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 1 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting 6:35 PM Council: Nov, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Absent: Baker. City Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Holecek, Franklin, Davidson, Kugler, Miklo, Rockwell. P/Z Commission: Bovbjerg, Chait, Ehrhardt, Gibson, Shive, Starr, Supple. Tapes: 97-148, Side 2; 97-149, all; 97-150, Side 1. Iowa City Comprehensive Plan 1997 Discussion 9%148 S2 Franklin/Bob and I are going to do a very brief presentation and then we will get into questions. As we go through the different sections... if you have got comments that you want to make then, let's make them while they are fresh. First in mind, keep in mind... remember this is out of the Beyond 2000 task force work .... The vision statement, the goals that are in the strategy section are the language verbatim from the Beyond 2000 which was adopted by the last city council .... basis for the entire plan. The first section I want to highlight is the Growth Policy ..... important section .... The Growth Policy and the Neighborhood Concept are probably the two key sections to the plan. The Growth Policy addresses the issue of where growth will occur .... The conclusion was there will be some growth of some kind, how is it going to happen, where is it going to happen... when is it going to happen? The Growth Policy is addressing the issue of...where and the Neighborhood Concept is how, how are we going to do it. What I want to do first is look at the growth boundary .... is a line which delineates our sanitary sewer service area, what we can serve by gravity sewer. The reason for using that as a boundary because that is one of our biggest investments in infrastructure .... Now we are looking at the where and the changes in the growth boundary that occurred between the previous plan... the 1993 adoption of the Growth Policy .... and now. There are three points in which we have changed this. The first is north of 1-80 (refers to map) ..... When we adopted the Growth Policy in '93, there was a statement that we had 700 acres of capacity in the sewer system that we could accommodate 700 more acres of development somewhere to the north. The sewer is the River Corridor Trunk Sewer .... It is very specific as to area. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 2 Norton/ .... Was that because there wasn't any anticipated development on the peninsula or was that with anticipated development in the more contiguous area? Franklin/It is with anticipated development on the peninsula. The reason we didn't address it before is because there is no clear water shed to the north of 1-80 .... When you start looking at the watershed boundaries... you don't get that clear delineation when you get north of the interstate. It follows the Rapid Creek watershed which goes on out to West Branch. Norton/ ....700 acres of extra capacity? Franklin/In terms of the sizing of the pipe and there was also the issue of serving River heights at one point in time. Norton/ Franklin/That was at a time when the line was going to go up the Iowa River, around the peninsula and go on up (refers to the river). Norton/There was some growth anticipated of some sort? Franklin/Yes. Thomberry/ Franklin/The north corridor planning district... encompasses this new area that we have outlined as being part of our growth area for the future. Norton/Can you find a different name than north corridor? I keep confusing it with what the county means. Franklin/It is consistent with what the county means because- Norton/ Franklin / .... It was purposefully named that. It is within that north corridor between Iowa City and North Liberty. On page 12 of the plan it explains why we have chosen these particular acres and it has to do with the fact that it is close to our existing corporate boundaries... compact development and doesn't require a river crossing .... (refers to map) .... Oakdale Blvd. will be coming across and hooking up This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 3 with D66 .... present some growth and development questions... who is going to serve that area ....Coralville would not have to cross the river, we would ....To avoid that crossing, we have chosen to stay south and east of the river .....Other portion... west of 965... brings it out (refers to map). However, we also diminished it south in this area (refers to map) because of the decision not to go through the Pleasant Valley Golf Course but to go down the Sycamore L and come south into the Wastewater Treatment Plant .... Those are the essentials of the change in the growth policies. Starr/The decision to extend on the west of 965, how is that area going to be served? .... Franklin/We are going to need to put a lift station down in this area here (refers to map) and I believe pump it up into here, up into Rohret Road area. At some point it gets up into a line (refers to map). It will require a lift station. Kubby/In the past Comp Plan... I liked... not talking just about where growth will happen but when growth will occur ..... We had a map that had three phases on it. I don't really see that kind of outline in the Plan. Franklin/That is right, you don't. Kubby/How do we then...parcel out our sewer dollars and our water dollars .... and road dollars because they are the most expensive .... Franklin/ .... abandon the phasing... gotten to a point in the growth of the community .... Don't have a lot of room in this whole growth area .... It is not overabundant ..... It will be your review every year of the CIP because that is exactly how you have done it in practice .... When you look at the CIP every year and you prioritize those projects for the coming two fiscal years, it is important for you to keep in your mind all of the input you get them in terms of what development is coming forward, what direction you would like things to go in. We have not used our CIP as well as we could to direct where growth is happening. We have been much more reactive than proactive in that regard. Kubby/ ....Public Works can only do 15 new projects a season .... That is going to be our discipline point. Franklin/That is and money because you only want to bond for so much each fiscal year. Those two things are certainly very limiting factors .... Use the policy that we have used to date... If someone wishes to do a project in an area where we don't have a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 4 capital project program ....then the developer pays their own way if they want to go in their time frame. Kubby/ ....I would love to have a conversation with P/Z about how we manage growth ..... Thomberry/Karen, when you are saying you are going to do this first, this second, this third... prioritizing different developments, then it would take out annexation policy .... If an office park area wanted to be built in an area that we have designated 1 or 2 ..... Kubby/It could be part of the discussion of how you build in flexibility within that structure .... Thomberry/I thought we had different phasings. Kubby/Not in this Comp Plan. Franklin/We don't in this plan. We don't have a phased scheduling of capital projects like we did on the previous plan and for the reason that it didn't seem to work that well. But I think with your CIP, that is the spot to do it, to have those discussions where you have your priorities as far as the city council is concerned and the Commission and then you also get input from the private sector as to what their priorities are. People know 1-2 years ahead what they are going to be doing .... Kubby/Then maybe we need to change out timing of when we talk about the CIP ..... Maybe we need to figure that timing issue out so that we can have a focused discussion with the help of P/Z. Franklin/And we also haven't done it at given times every year in terms of the discussion of the CIP. It has been a little erratic as to when exactly it happens in the year. Norton/ ....good time of year to do that .... Kubby/ Norton/ Franklin/Maybe we need to put a statement in here somewhere .... A statement in the plan of the intent in terms of using the CIP to determine timing. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 5 Thomberry/It belongs in the CIP .... We had the where, we didn't have the when. Vanderhoef/It was in November last year that we did the CIP. Franklin/We can put something in. Lehman/ ....gives total flexibility .... Bovbjerg/Are all growth boundaries next to the county? (Can't hear). Franklin/With other corporations or municipalities? Yes. (Refers to map). This one is contiguous with Coralville's growth area. In fact, we have an agreement with Coralville regarding annexation and subdivision review that that line mimics it. Bovbjerg/How about Oakdale Blvd. at the top? Franklin/Right now the line for the agreement is somewhere in here. I don't remember exactly how it goes. With adoption of this, we will probably want to revisit that with the City of Coralville so that this kind of ambiguous area in here (refers to map) gets resolved. Bovbj erg/That is currently county but it has overlapping- Franklin/Yes and the equal distant line is someplace in here (refers to map). And we might just want to move that line of the agreement to the river, maybe. Atkins/Could you all pull your microphones closer ..... Franklin/The next issue is the Annexation Policy, page 13. The most remarkable change here is that is states that we will take a more proactive stance on annexation and that is reflected in one of the statements that one of the conditions or reasons on which we will consider annexation is control of development in the city's best interest. That expands it beyond what it used to be which was control of entrance ways which was very specific and focused as to where we would be looking at annexation. This statement is broader and the intent is to allow us to give us... publicly say that we wish to have more control in our growth area. With the fringe agreement, that is one way we get influenced. But control is only when it is within the corporate boundaries and it will be a case by case decision as to how critical that is to the city as to whether we want to annex certain areas and may take the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 6 posture to approach property owners... if interested in annexation so that we can control .... We have zoning capabilities .... to hold that land for a period of time .... Norton/ Franklin/You annex it but you don't zone it for development at urban densities. You zone it for interim development. Kubby/Why would anyone want to pay higher property taxes to let it sit there? Franklin/You don't. You don't pay higher property taxes. In fact you pay lower property taxes... if you have agriculture land within the city ....has more to do with not having the county's secondary roads tax. Kubby/ Franklin/The zoning doesn't determine what your property is assessed as the use .... Not until you improve it and develop it that you start paying that high tax. Norton/It might include incentives? .... Franklin/It might .... It recognizes the growth area as defined is an opportunity for growth... also a limitation... Sets out an area that we can plan for .... Vanderhoef/Karin, is there any time frame of when the city is obligated to provide services to annexed land? Franklin/Yes, a reasonable period of time. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/There isn't a number .... The peninsula... done in the 60's .... That has been 30 some years. That also was an involuntary annexation .... If the city takes property within its corporate limits against the wishes of the property owner, they need to provide services within a reasonable period of time ....There needs to be some logic behind taking the property for annexation. Gibson/What about exercising control? Is that a logical reason? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 7 Franklin/That is a logical one, particularly if you have a growth policy and a growth area defined as we have, then the logic of including that within your corporate limits is justified by the due deliberation that you go through to get to this point. Vanderhoef/So would it be logical to annex a piece of property of someone that doesn't choose to be just so we can annex someone else's that chooses to be? Franklin/It depends. That is hard. When you do an involuntary annexation which we haven't done since the 60's, it is quite a long protracted process and you have to do a number of studies to show the benefit to the property is being a municipality .... It is quite complicated... You only do it in the extreme of circumstances. The state law now allows you to take a smaller piece of property if it is in the way of a larger annexation, as long as that smaller piece is 20% or less of the larger piece .... Nov/But we worked our way around this .... Franklin/Yes, the Weinstein property was prior to... the 20% rule. However, we annexed along Arlington... after the 20% rule .... Thomberry/I would like to read a sentence from here and then ask a question about it. "When considering the merits of a proposed annexation or development, the impact of increased vehicular traffic on any street, currently at or near capacity, will be studied and the results will be included as an additional factor in that decision." Does the Board of Realtors know and have a map of arterials and collectors? When someone buys a house on an arterial, do they know they are buying a house on an arterial street or do they think it is a collector? Or do they even know or is it brought up? ..... Franklin/All of that information is available. Whether the Realtor chooses to use it or not is entirely up to them. I am sure it varies from Realtor to Realtor. Thomberry/Because when I bought my house on First Avenue, I did not know that it was an arterial. Franklin/You need to always drive to the end of the street and see if there is a cul de sac on it .... That sentence that you just brought up is the next point that I wanted to make. That was an addition that was made by the P/Z Commission after some discussion with the Longfellow Neighborhood Association. The way we are interpreting that and using it now ..... staff level... When we have any annexation, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 8 we will do the traffic study in terms of what the average daily trips would be that would be generated by that project and then look at where that traffic might flow .... We would have that as a paragraph in the report that this is the vehicle trips that we expect from this development and if it going to direct affect .... We have one that is before the Commission tonight... Westcott Heights .... we know is going to add some traffic to Prairie du Chien and the intersection of Prairie du Chien and Dodge .... zoning is in place there... looking at subdivision... When you have annexation... zoning... policies about whether something should come into the corporate boundaries... that is the time when you look at this question... Are we giving rights to that property that is going to result in traffic that is going to have an impact on a street that is at or near capacity?... ls that significant enough to either have us deny the annexation or the rezoning? .... Thomberry/When you are talking about rezoning and it is the lowest density and you deny it, isn't that a taking? Franklin/You have to look at that very carefully. Kubby/ Thomberry/ Norton/ Thomberry/Dee, you are going to need the microphone in front of you. Norton/Could it be used to justify an impact fee? Franklin/It could be but you would need to have enabling legislation in place .... That is one way you could potentially deal with it ....Is the development something that you want or not? If you say yes, we want this ....then you want to look at what are the capital projects that are going to be necessary for this .... Then decide if it makes sense for the city to put in those capital improvements .... Nov/ Franklin/One of the policies in this plan is to preserve the integrity of existing neighborhoods... balancing that out with the growth that happens .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 9 Norton/ .... You could say Windsor Ridge is going to overload Court Street, for example .... anti-growth mode if you go too far with this thing .... Gibson/I was concerned about putting this in because while it is difficult to argue with the logic .... It also makes it difficult to deal with a situation where you say yes, it is going to impact on the arterial .... I believe the answer to that question is always subjective .....It is very very difficult to improve arterials ....May be tantamount by putting this in ....to saying there will be no growth .... Franklin/That is why this is an additional factor in the decision. It is not the factor. Gibson/ Norton/ Kubby/It is another factor that helps us discipline ourselves ....to make sure we are following all these other policies .... Gibson/ .... There are some traps associated with this. There is also some good logic planning. Norton/ .... We are looking at 3500 undeveloped acres within the present city boundaries and subdivision approvals within that .... Gibson/ Norton/ ....sweet phrases ..... Kubby/Is there anything in the Comp Plan that gives priority to in-fill development? ..... Franklin/That is in this section on annexation .....prioritization of investment in infrastructure, page 13. Nov/Should we move on? Kubby/I have another question about the annexation policy... page 12, #2, the second condition that must exist .... without imposing an undue financial burden on the city .... residential home under $200,000 doesn't really pay for itself... How do we fulfill looking at #2 to know can we afford this new development? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997' WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 10 Franklin/Even with that figure that we gave you back in '93 ..... fiscal impact analysis of Windsor Ridge and Sycamore Farms .... rough fiscal impact analysis .... You don't know precisely what the incremental costs are for every house. Kubby/How do we figure out how we do this? Franklin/One easy way to do it... has to do with capital projects that are necessary as a consequence of the annexation .....This is policy, it is not law. It is giving you a guide for making a decision .....very subjective on your part as to what decision you actually make. Kubby/These other financial burdens .... Franklin/Police, fire, library, parks .... Kubby/If we don't understand the true long term impact, how can we make reliable or judged policy decisions that are subjective? Norton/It gets more complicated... residential doesn't pay its way, commercial breaks even, industrial pays the freight. But you can't have industrial without having the people .... Its complicated to balance it off. Gibson/Also rules of thumb that rural development in this scattered manner costs us a great deal more than the tax revenues are generated .... Kubby/ Franklin/You can try to figure that out .... It would take some investment in having someone do that. I am not sure the information you are going to get is going to give you a whole lot more than what you have .... What you are trying to figure out... is whether the taxes paid are going to pay for the incremental cost. Kubby/Or what portion of it .....If you can't leave it out or figure it out .... Franklin/I would leave it looser because if you decide you want to do a fiscal impact analysis .... When we do a ten acre annexation, it is not worth it. Nov/The people who are going to live here are going to impact Iowa City whether or not they are living within the city boundaries ..... I don't know you are going to change a great deal by doing all the financial impact. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 11 Kubby/But the county pays for those library services ....don't provide the same level of services .... Nov/The other things are going to be provided .... they are going to be inside Iowa City and using Iowa City services to some extent whether or not the house is being taxed by Iowa City. Kubby/ ....I just want to make sure I understand what #2 is saying ..... Franklin/It is a matter of whether you agree with the idea that the fiscal impact of a development should be one of the factors when you are making a decision about annexation... If it is... how much detail do you need?... implementation point .... But is it important that the financial consequences of a property being annexed be considered? And that is what this is saying is that the financial consequences should be considered. Norton/There must be some examples of where this has been tried and we can look at a model .... Seems to be pretty complicated. Franklin/ Nov/ ....We don't have to figure it out today. Franklin/The Neighborhood Concept. This is a very important part of this plan... grew out of the task force statement and goals. What we lit upon is a phrase... that "Iowa City is a Community of Neighborhoods" and that is looking at the existing neighborhoods as well as the new ones that we create .... Many of you were at the presentation that Victor Dover did ..... physically what it means when you build neighborhoods .... goal is regaining some kind of sense of community and that when you build your physical environment, that you not build it in such a way that you preclude that from happening .... insure that you built environment is such that it doesn't get in the way ..... The next section is Goals and Strategies, page 30. Thomberry/Karin, one question on neighborhoods .... When we have neighborhood commercial ..... How can you say how big a grocery store can be in a neighborhood center without saying how many seats a restaurant can have? .... It is a neighborhood thing and we have neighborhood commercial .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 12 Franklin/The goal is to try to get those commercial uses within a neighborhood of a size that they will primarily pull from the neighborhood that is around them. We are working really hard to get that magic number... that is going to get you that as opposed to one that is going to draw in a lot of traffic into the area. Thomberry/ Franklin/ ....We have got to work it out for what is going to work for Iowa City. Thomberry/So Fareway is okay for neighborhood commercial .... pretty good size for a neighborhood. Now would the new HyVee on First Avenue be the size for a neighborhood? Kubby/It is the biggest HyVee in Iowa. Thomberry/How big of area or neighborhood are we talking about? ..... I don't understand what size of what is okay in a neighborhood? Franklin/It is going to be a zoning question... idea is to get that size such that you are not pulling in from West branch. That you are trying to address the needs of the people around there .... It is what that optimal size is so that you are serving the needs of the neighborhood but you are not pulling in a lot of traffic from the other parts of the city ..... The big ones, like First Avenue, First Avenue is zoned community commercial, not neighborhood commercial. Gibson/Isn't it true the term neighborhood is used in a different context in each of these instances as well? Franklin/Yes .... Gibson/A neighborhood has probably got some geographic characteristics that help define it as a neighborhood .....neighborhood commercial area is really based on this principle .... Franklin/That is why you put it on the comer of arterial streets that bound the neighborhood. Kubby/The compact neighborhood design. Does that mean if a plat comes in that does not have any of these characteristics, that that can be basis for denial? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 13 Franklin/Not until we change the law. This says this is what we desire as a community .....The next step is drafting and adopting the laws that make it happen .... Kubby/Is that Planning's next step once this is passed? ....We might have to prioritize what it is we want to work on. Franklin/And that will be our annual action plan. Lehman/(Can't hear). Franklin/I had never contemplated a feasibility study. I thought we just go for it, Ernie .... In terms of the neighborhood concept, the Peninsula, we have been talking about that as a model for how we do this .... It has been used many places .... The next section is the Goals and Strategies. The specific strategies will be used to put together that action plan. The goals are the statements that came out of the task forces. The strategies are then language that has been worked through the staff and P/Z Commission. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-149, SIDE 1 Franklin/We will take those to get to the specifics of the action plan and what we are going to do. The next step after these strategies is to get to the ordinance changes to do something, the action. Kubby/What do we do if we have ideas for additional or changed strategies? Franklin/If they are editorial, give them to me... If they are new strategies, changes in direction of these strategies, bring them up. Kubby/Are we just going to go through them one by one? Franklin/Because the P/Z Commission has to go to their meeting, why don't we do that once they have gone .... If there are specifics that are markedly different ..... get it back to the Commission for your information .... really different then we will need to get the Commission involved again. Nov/Can we give the Commission members a chance to say anything? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 14 Franklin/Next part is for Bob to show you the South District Plan, what we would do in terms of the neighborhood concept. Miklo/Talking about process .... South District... hope to use for the other ten planning districts that are outlined in the Comp Plan .... may be some exceptions .... We don't anticipate a lot of residential development there, so we won't have the neighborhood workshops necessarily as we did with the South District. We started the South District in house... collecting information about the area .... Put that together on a series of maps and in some brief reports... met with major property owners and potential developers .... neighborhood associations .... advised them of the upcoming planning process... started to seek their comments and input.. Also met with... folks... school district... P/R Commission .... environmental groups in town .... provided them an opportunity for them to give input into the planning process and keep them posted as we went along. The major element of the planning process was a series of neighborhood workshops that occurred in the neighborhoods. We held them in the Grant Wood School. There were two workshops, the first one... presented the background information ..... developers an opportunity to tell us what they anticipated doing with their properties. We also provided them with some basic guidelines from Beyond 2000 vision statements .... broke them up into seven smaller groups .... different interests .... let them plan what they saw as a future of this area in specific neighborhoods. They then came back and presented those ideas to the larger group... Many of their concepts were in common .... same ideas that came out of the Beyond 2000 task force .... We then took that and created the South District Plan which you all had an opportunity to read .... Important... Land use scenario.. plan at a glance .... I would like to quickly illustrate how some of the neighborhood design concepts and some of the policies in Beyond 2000 are represented in that Plan .... follow along in your color map that illustrates some of these concepts. Major elements... desire to have a neighborhood focal point or commercial center ..... in the center of these neighborhoods and that it would be in walking distance to a large majority of the new neighborhoods in the area .... idea of creating a neighborhood commercial in town square type atmosphere... or main street design .... variety of housing types and styles .... neighborhood commercial would be surrounded by median to higher density housing .... Plan also shows that smaller multi-family developments are appropriate at intersections of collectors and arterial streets .... With the Greenview Development .... neighbors didn'twant concentrations of apartments... like Lakeside... But they would accept smaller multi-family development scattered This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 15 throughout the neighborhoods .... 'The idea of a street network... variety of ways to get around these neighborhoods .... series of collector streets... providing more than one way to get from the arterials in and out of the neighborhood .... specific neighborhood streets will occur at subdivisions .... Neighborhood policies encourage a modified grid street pattern so... there are choices... The groups also identified idea of having smaller parks scattered throughout the neighborhoods .... Also endorsed idea of having a trail system connect the parks... schools.. and neighborhood commercial areas ..... South District Plan .... (refers to map)... intensive commercial... zoning this for more of a retail commercial development given its high visibility and close proximity to Highway 6 .... Plan also identifies potential for industrial development (refers to map) ..... also recognizes this area... in flood plain... wetlands .... appropriate area for possible regional park .... Kubby/Bob, will you go back to what you said about an industrial zone... I don't see where that is on the colored map. Norton/On the land use map. Miklo/(Refers to map) ..... Ehrhardt/Bob, would it be possible at this early stage in planning is to locate parks where it is desired to have parks and attempt to purchase that land now. It seems... development that we see comes up in the land that P/R want to buy but lots are so expensive .... Miklo/ I think in the South District Plan we wouldn't get that specific. But that is for the P/R Commission to now take this to the next step and identify where to expend park funds to buy parkland. But the plan did identify a possible school site in this area (refers to map) and suggests in association with that school site a neighborhood park be developed. We can fairly well pinpoint where a park should be and then it is up to the P/R Commission to implement that even further. Supple/Apparently this plan was changed in between the time it left P/Z and came here before the council? Miklo/I don't believe- This map was in the version that went to the Commission. Supple/I don't think so. Karr/Naomi, could you pass the mic to Lea, please. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 16 Supple/There are two different maps .... Miklo/I believe this is the first map ....simply shows outline of the district ....It breaks it up into smaller sub-districts? Supple/It goes considerably farther east than the map that I have .... Kubby/I have September '96. Nov/July '97 is what I have. Norton/I have March '97. Miklo/I believe the one the Commission voted on was dated July '97. Supple/I was never given one that said July '97. I was only given September '96. Kubby/Can I get a July '97? I don't have one. Miklo/We can distribute these ..... Rockwell/Bob, one of the changes that occurred was that as we went to the neighborhoods and went to the workshop, we were concentrating mainly on that area that was west of Saddlebrook, the area that would be annexed into the city and developed into the new neighborhoods. We knew how Saddlebrook was going to develop. The area to the east we really did not concentrate on it that time .... the District was much wider.. further to the east...modified the maps to include the entire district. But the planning effort by the neighborhood really went into that section that came out in the first series of maps. Kubby/Are there any textual changes between the September '96 and July '97 versions? Miklo/There were some minor changes .... Nov/I think you should change this map to include the Streb property that was annexed. This doesn't even include that much ....Map does show a city boundary that is inaccurate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 17 Franklin/This map is just a map we are using tonight because the color map we couldn't get resolution with the Elmo. Starr/We are about ten minutes into our meeting. Was our agenda published? .... Franklin/ Miklo/It was noted on the top .... Starr/We do have a starting time of 7:30. Franklin/If there is anything that the Commission and council want to exchange at this point. Norton/ Franklin/If you want to do this again, you can do this again. The p.h. is continued to November 11 .... 10th is a possibility .... Nov/When does P/Z meet once again? How about the 17th? Thomberry/I think we need more than one hour. Franklin/ Council/(All talking). Nov/I am asking ifP/Z would like to come 6:30 on 17th? Council/(All talking). Bovbjerg/ Franklin/There was one p.h. at the council already and... nobody came .... We will see what happens on the 1 lth. If there is public input on the 1 lth, then all of you would have benefit of what that is .... Nov/Everybody on P/Z came stay home on the 1 lth and watch us on television .... [P/Z Commission left 7:45 PM] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 18 Council/(All talking). Nov/All right, are we going to stay with the Comp Plan and see what other questions council has for Karin? Okay, does anyone have further questions and comments on the South District Plan? Kubby/I have one .... page 7. Looking at the third from the bottom box .... Provide accessible apartments above ground floor commercial uses in the neighborhood commercial center. I am wondering .... this may or may not be very practical to have .... Insuring accessibility in other areas maybe the trade-off for not dictating it on upper floors in the commercial if it is not a reasonable cost to do it ....Stronger language elsewhere as a tradeoff for not having this in. Franklin/That is in there specifically because during the neighborhood workshop the issue of accessibility came up a couple of times ....strong feeling on enough people's part that that be included. Kubby/That it be included as part of residential uses above commercial uses in that context? Franklin/Yes and it is not easy to do... elevator. Norton/Heavy duty. Nov/There is more interest now in providing multiple levels of apartments above commercial ..... Kubby/Is this neighborhood commercial...? Vanderhoef/...only 3-4 apartments above a small business might not be economically a good- Maybe we need to put the number of units or the number of bedrooms or some such thing. Kubby/ ....maybe differentiating between neighborhood commercial and other .... Norton/Or wherever feasible. Mandating that is rather heavy .... wording changes by Wednesday .... What do you think about wherever feasible? Kubby/ADA .... reasonable costs .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 19 Thomberry/If you have four apartment above commercial, you must have by ADA requirements a lift. Kubby/Maybe that doesn't matter then .... Thornberry/Why should we get heavier handed than ADA? Vanderhoef/No, we shouldn't ..... Nov/How about encourage accessible apartments rather than provide? Thomberry/Sounds good. Norton/Sounds fine. Thornberry/ Kubby/Or even to say provide accessible apartments above ground floor as outlined in ADA ..... Norton/ Nov/ Franklin/So we want to soften that statement a little so it doesn't seem quite so prescriptive in that you have to have. Kubby/Brought this up... living document .... practicality ..... Franklin/ .... overriding goal .... Maybe what we look at is that you can have apartment right next to commercial as long as that apartment is an accessible apartment .... Thomberry/ Kubby/Changing .... to say it is not a special exception ..... Norton/Okay, agreed on that change. I want to get in here .... We think of Highway 6, West Liberty as an entrance... Highway 6... looks grizzly .... Talking about This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 20 enhancing Gilbert Street as a potential entrance or Sand Road. Certainly ought to pay attention... beauty of Highway 6. Franklin/We have a CIP item that is spread out over three years, $300,000 a year, for Highway 6 drainage and sidewalk and that is to enhance Highway 6. That is already in the CIP. Norton/And that would include the trail that is proposed along the Southside? Franklin/Yes. Norton/ Franklin/ Nov/Drainage... pipe... sidewalk... Thornberry/Can we use ADS pipe? Franklin/How do they make that? I don't know. Thomberry/It is conceivably cheaper and it works in other areas ..... Why does it have to be concrete things? Norton/I found where I want to fix the wording, page 12 of the South District and you say "Consideration should be given to incorporating landscape medians or green buffer strips along Gilbert Street, Sycamore Street and the East West Parkway." I would say comma, the East West Parkway and Highway 6 all along the north boundary of this district. Franklin/We can do that. Norton/Thank you. Thornberry/This is from where to where, Dee? From Riverside Drive to Scott Blvd.? Norton/I said all along the north boundary of this district ....South District... from Sycamore west .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Couneil-P/Z Commission Meeting page 21 Franklin/Oh, that will take it from the river .....out to past Sioux Avenue. It would be beautiful. Thornberry/When they are putting in drainage pipes .... we have commercial on both sides .... for a lot of it .... If not commercial then there is residential .... It would be nice to have sidewalks along there .... When they are putting sidewalk in, why couldn't they lay conduit along there... lights along the sidewalk. Franklin/I will make a note of that and we will talk about that when we talk about CIP and what we want that project specifically to be. Kubby/But only as a third as many as what is along Highway 6. Thomberry/It doesn't have to be as many... some lighting .... Norton/Are we prepared, under Housing, page 7 .... changes... Are we prepared to modify our ordinances to go to some smaller lots in RS-5? ....narrower streets .....I just want to be sure we are all onboard here. Franklin/This is the basis for it as to why you would do that. Norton/I understand that .... Vanderhoef/I would like to have a conversation about alleys and how they work and how they do or don't decrease the cost for housing ..... on how you address housing towards an arterial street and setbacks and so forth. S_ome of these things that are here I have got real questions about .... townhouses... _front door is facing the arterial .... as an owner.. come in via an alley or parking lot or garage .... And all my guests enter from the rear .... may or may not be much green space back there. Franklin/It is a different lifestyle. It is not a housing type that encourages a lot of outdoor play. Look at the townhouses on Scott Blvd. just north of Washington and those are facing the arterial with the parking in the rear ....Probably are childless .... probably don't spend a lot of time at home either. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/What I am seeing in the Comp Plan is more of these being designed specifically to go on arterial streets. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 22 Kubby/ Vanderhoef/Around the neighborhood commercial zone.. two collectors or two arterials. Franklin/The key with this concept is the mix, not a single housing type dominates ..... More of a mix than what we have now ..... Norton/In this regard ....Mormon Trek Village... nothing is said here or anywhere about frontage roads .... still give you an access to the front of your house... concept of frontage road ....nice houses on both sides... small frontage roads ....I don't know whether we have the land for that. Franklin/You have it if you decide to devote it to that .... Norton/Some might very well have alleys in the back .... Lehman/On Mormon Trek Village, are those addresses Mormon Trek? ..... Thomberry/You got to go around behind .... Vanderhoef/You got to go to a different street totally to find that address. Franklin/It is different. Norton/ ....Whole question of alleys, cost, maintenance, style ....too hard to maintain .... Nov/Do you want a concrete alley .... ? Norton/ ....still worthwhile ....You say it is in here. Vanderhoef/ .... I am trying to look at the total impact... We are going to create a neighborhood that has smaller frontages, smaller lots. But if we doubled the services required for that- Franklin/The economics of that comes out of the smaller lots... more compact more urban way of developing it. I think, too, one of the factors to think about is how we do this .... That we allow this as an opportunity to develop this way .... Peninsula can be so intriguing .... Things now in our Code which preclude it from happenings .... You can do most of this stuff with a PDH. Developers have not taken the risk locally to put this product on the market... takes somebody to do it This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 23 the first time to see if it is going to work .... We have seen a change in that when the big house market has gone soft. We have gotten a shift to more of the attached units .... Scott and Court .... not complete yet... embrace that diversity in the housing types .... You have got townhouses there... condominiums.. apartments .... zero lot lines and s.f. detached that are not inexpensive... range of housing prices .... ofbetween$90- to $300,000. Norton/Enabling legislation ....new ordinance... maybe even incentives. Kubby/Do we have any figures in terms of the amount of land taken up by concrete .... ? Franklin/I think so, yes. Bob has got that. Kubby/That might be part of our discussion .... more concrete... decreasing green space. Nov/ ....Do alleys have to be concrete? Thomberry/No .... Kubby/Well, impervious surface .... Nov/We don't need impervious surfaces. We want to put in an alley with crushed rock .... Vanderhoef/That is an ongoing expense over the long haul .... Lehman/ Thomberry/Does Iowa City maintain all alleys? Franklin/No, we don't maintain alleys anymore. Norton/ Franklin/They pay for the rock... or asphalt .... We will put in on the alley... But the property owners pay for the rock typically. Thornberry/Did we pave that alley off Bowery? Franklin/Yes .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 24 Kubby/That was partial assessment .... Council/(All talking). Kubby/ Thomberry/On Dodge Street just south of Bowery on the west side. Kubby/We were talking about neighborhood commercial zones and using Scott and Court as a good example .... I don't know that I want to promote the gas station convenience store .... they are everywhere. I don't know that I want us to be promoting that as maybe the core of some of our neighborhood commercial .... Franklin/The terminology there was not to promote the Seven Eleven or something like that .... To talk about a comer grocery store like Seaton's, the practicality of that is not a reality anymore .... All the commercial developments that have been started... they are all being subsidized because the area is not big enough to support that commercial development to have the little mom and pop grocery store. Kubby/Maybe we can figure out different terminology then. Page 6, last box on the Southside Plan .... convenience commercial area to me means a Quik Trip. Nov/This says a gas station. This is very specific. Kubby/This is saying at the edge of neighborhoods and what I am trying to do is not have us promote it to be the core of commercial neighborhood ..... I don't mind it being on the edge .... Norton/How do we go about limiting development in the river corridor area to just the three parcels of land located near Napoleon Park? ....Does the imply that we would buy those properties or something like that? Franklin/Yes... through zoning or purchase. Those are the two ways you are going to control it ..... Norton/I am on page 5, next to the last paragraph. I am thinking about the whole area, essentially the river corridor ....includes sand and gravel area... Is that in our plan to buy that? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 25 Vanderhoef/There was some discussion about it when Napoleon Park was purchased ..... The land along the river south of Napoleon Park... when we had FEMA money.. some conversation about buying the land... Norton/I agree with this thing but it looks like a pretty substantial commitment .....We are going to have an awful lot of park on the river .... Kubby/It is a vision .... Nov/Consideration will be given .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/That is always land that will come with development. Franklin/This is really looking at a regional park ....P/R Comp Plan for city wide parks .... Norton/ Vanderhoef/ .... listening to Victor Dover... neighborhood commercial areas .... What would the new HyVee on First Avenue if it had some sort of thing over the top of it that softened the whole look of it ..... You could do a lot of things architecturally .... Is there anything in our zoning that says we can't do that? Franklin/No. Right now to have residential over commercial ..... they come on for a special exception to the Board of Adjustment. Kubby/A lot of folks that hang out at the deli might want to live above it ..... Franklin/The scale there doesn't really work for that combination of uses. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-149 SIDE 2 Franklin/Walden Square... bank and Fareway.. commercial L... apartments there... I think that works when you have a combination of that scale. When you get something the size of a two acre HyVee or whatever it is. Vanderhoef/Maybe if you only did it on part of it .... Nov/...I would not want to live above a 24 hour a day grocery store. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 26 Kubby/Unless you are a 24 a day kind of person. Lehman/At Walden Square... a certain amount of semi-privacy. A place like HyVee there is no privacy whatsoever .... Franklin/I wouldn't want to live there. Thornberry/ Franklin/Do any of you want to talk about specific strategies? Kubby/I had one thing I wanted to ask about the South Central Plan .... Franklin/...I didn't get to say what the planning districts are all about. These are not the plans for these districts ..... It is just an outline of these are the districts, this is what is there now, this is some of the issues in these districts ....we will get into more specifics. Lehman/But aren't we saying that basically what is in here, we accept? Franklin/If there is an issue that is framed that you disagree with, then let us know. Kubby/ .... I am on page 80, South Central .... Bob said... that there may not be the same kind of process with the South Central because there is so few residential lots. On page 80 under the Open Space, it says because it is not an extensive residential area that there are no open space districts and I am really concerned because there are two mobile home parks there .... I don't want those people left out of the ability to have open space ....They are kind of out of the loop on the process just because they live there .... Franklin/This is an indication that in our adopted Neighborhood Open Space Plan there is no neighborhood open space designated for that area and that is because there is not a lot of residential there .... Maybe what we should do is add a line indicating that for the residential development that does exist there, that there should be consideration given to open space. Kubby/Yes .... and those residential players in the South Central District should have an opportunity to have input. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting Franklin/They have, they just haven't taken it. Kubby/ ....the opportunity needs to be there. Franklin/Dynamic has been very different with the South Central District in terms of people getting into these workshops .... Kubby/ ....at Baculis... Maybe it is where it happens .... Norton/Is there a chance we can go through the things, start from the front .... Vanderhoef/ Kubby/Baculis and Thatcher are the two residential areas in the South Central District .... Karin is telling me that they have had an opportunity to participate ....I want them to be included in the Neighborhood Open Space Plan .... Thomberry/...airport... open space .... Kubby/We are not asking them to go play there. Norton/ ....I have 8 pages of comments... What am I going to do with them? Kubby/Holy Moses .... Vanderhoef/Baculis and so forth... Longfellow... old establish area .... Neighborhood Open Space Plan does address certain things like this ....trails and greenways are acceptable .... Kubby/But what it says on page 80 is that they are not really part of that ....I found acceptable the language that Karin was going to add .... Vanderhoef/We can also address this with a fiver trail .... Kubby/I just don't want them left out .... Nov/Ryerson Woods .... Kubby/ ....It is a matter of whether they are included in the language ....We can add that and move on. page 27 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 28 Nov/I would change the language a little bit .... In terms of changes, re-writing language, editorial changes are something you give to Karin... she will worry about it. If you have substantive questions, now is the time. Norton/I am thinking of starting from the front of the document and looking at the Growth Policy. One of the goals... page 13 ....I was curious about our original policy... We wanted to have a visible edge ....I don't see that articulated. I wish it were again. Franklin/On page 41, the first goal in land use and urban pattern. Kubby/Second strategy .... It seems like an important concept would somehow be more visible. Norton/I would like it to be pulled out a little bit ....see it in the text .... Kubby/Same thing is true about encouraging continued investment in downtown. To me that is a major thing that needs to be stated more prominently .... Norton/The second one... attention to our entrances .... Franklin/Slow down if I am going to get these... got to get some nods... that this is the way to go if I am going to make the changes .... Suggestion will be made for a change. If anyone objects, be vocal about it other wise I am going to take silence as concurrence. Nov/I have no problem with keeping the visible edge in the land use and urban pattern section .... Council/(All talking). Nov/I think it is sufficient. Thomberry/ ....4th goal.. strong and successful downtown .... Kubby/I was looking at concept .... I am use to the old format... strategies .... I just may need to shift my comfort level with them being here. Norton/How about entrances, are they listed there? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 29 Thomberry/I have a comment... that work with business community on strategies to keep downtown competitive with outlying commercial areas. Meaning what exactly? What does that mean? Norton/Burger King. Thomberry/ Franklin/That is the whole debate of downtown commercial core, other commercial cores that we have .... Right now in the Comp Plan we have designated commercial areas: downtown, Highway 6, Highway 1 and Riverside Drive. It is a matter between keeping a balance between a healthy downtown and growth in those other commercial cores. Thornberry/What does that mean? Franklin/Phenomenon that we have seen... downtowns, they die .... as those activities move out to the... edge commercial areas. It has always been a policy and direction of this city to maintain downtown Iowa City as a vital part of the community and not to let that drain from downtown go out to the edges at the expense of downtown. What this is talking about is balancing both of those. That you have commercial areas viable in both places .... Kubby/ ....free shuttle... to justify the cost there .... Norton/ ....some of those outlying areas are going to need help .... Thornberry/I am saying the city maintains parking structures... for downtown businesses .... They don't maintain anything for the outlying areas. Franklin/That is a little strong. Thornberry/Businesses outside the downtown area maintain their own parking... landscaping... everything with the exception of the roads .... Franklin/In downtown... landscaping... r.o.w. in outlying areas... our responsibility .... Thomberry/ ....We are talking here about placing the downtown above all else? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting Kubby/ Nov/ Lehman/Downtown probably has more publicly owned property... library, recreation center... incumbent upon the city to see to it that those properties are kept in a attractive sort of fashion .... Is a reason why there is more attention to the downtown just because of the public property .... ? Thornberry/City can't even maintain the weeds along Highway 6 much less landscaping. Kubby/Do we believe that downtown Iowa City should be the core commercial area? .... Plan says it will be maintained as the core commercial area. I personally totally agree with that. Lehman/I don't like the word competitive. Thornberry/That is what I am talking about. Kubby/ Franklin/ .... What we are talking about is keeping the downtown economically competitive with outlying commercial areas .... Kubby/ Thornberry/I don't disagree that it is not the core of the city... It is the core commercial area of Iowa City. But to put it in a competitive edge with private industry ....If this message is that we maintain the core community... in competition with- Franklin/No. It says it is not to give the downtown a competitive edge... It is to give downtown an edge. It is to keep it competitive with the outlying commercial areas .... That they both are able to compete... both are economical viable .... Kubby/ Lehman/Can we say work with the business community to maintain the viability of the downtown? page 30 Thomberry/I agree with that part. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 31 Franklin/Maintain the economic viability of downtown. Norton/Just keep downtown commercially viable and leave out those other words. Thomberry/I agree with that also. Franklin/Okay, keep downtown commercially viable. Okay, got it. Thornberry/Because the outlying areas, the commercial areas spend their own money doing that. The city does not spend money mowing from my property line out to Highway 6, for example. I do that ..... Norton/All right, we got that one, let's go ahead. Thornberry/ Norton/Where do you allude to entrances, Karin? .... I thought we had agreed collectively... about entrances .... Franklin/You are talking about the attractiveness of the entranceway? Norton/The attractiveness of our entranceway, yes. Vanderhoef/ Norton/I didn't know whether it would be a land use issue. Vanderhoef/It is a land use issue and it goes with your green space .... page 41. Franklin/No, it is not on page 41. Vanderhoef/But that//2... talking about green space ....When I think about 965 and I am wondering. I don't see anything in this land use .... Norton/They don't talk about Melrose or Dubuque or Gilbert or Highway 1 or Highway 6 or Rochester. Kubby/Would those be mentioned in each district plan? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 32 Franklin/They will be. But if you want something specific to maintaining the attractiveness of entranceways, I think we would put it in the environmental protection part. There is one of the goals to protect scenic and historic vistas. Norton/Okay, just so it gets some identification. l~ranklin/That is on page 37. Lehman/I don't think the vista of Old 218 South is worth protecting. Franklin/ Lehman/I think it is a high priority. Norton/ Franklin/Okay, I will put it in. Norton/One other issue... page 37... talking on environmental protection. You have a strategy here on stormwater... Does that include a more regional or area wide approach to stormwater? .... Franklin/We have regional stormwater in the northeast with the North Branch Detention Basin. Norton/But nothing is said about it in the area plans... except two out of the seven .....I am urging that we get something in here about- Franklin/To move towards more regional? Norton/Yes. Kubby/To explore that .... Lehman/ Norton/I don't know exactly how big of an area .... Franklin/It is by watershed usually. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 33 Lehman/ Franklin/We are talking about within the existing corporate limits of the growth area. Norton/I do think it is an approach. Franklin/I think we can put that under the second goal there, "Support acquisition and management of watershed, floodplains, wetlands and greenways." One of the strategies would be regional stormwater management or something. Nov/There is a stormwater management phrase under goal/)3 in the second strategy .... Franklin/That is to address a water quality issue... You could have it in individual stormwater detention areas ....What Dee is talking about is management of stormwater .... Nov/Can't you add watershed after natural features? Franklin/No because that is only talking about water quality. The one above is about management of watershed. So I think it should be up there. Nov/Okay. Kubby/I have another addition .... on the environmental protection... second to the last goal where it talks about promote unintrusive lighting in design. Just that we review our lighting performance standards .... Franklin/It is on the pending list. Vanderhoef/I had another addition on this page also. We talk about completing the Iowa River Corridor Trail .... I would like to have a strategy in there to complete a network of inner city trails that connect our neighborhood, parks, schools, commercial areas... adjoining neighborhoods. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ Franklin/Say what you said....I think it would go into transportation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 34 Vanderhoef/Complete a network of inner city trails that would connect our neighborhood parks, schools, commercial areas as well as the adjoining neighborhoods. Thomberry/My God, how many trails are you going to have? Franklin/That I think goes in transportation. If you could just give me that language, Dee. Lehman/Put where feasible. Franklin/Everything is where feasible... that will be the last page. Norton/ Vanderhoef/ Norton/You are already in a park. Why would you ride to another one? Franklin/For the journey, not the destination .... Council/(All talking). Thornberry/Wheel tax .... How are we going to pay for all of the things ..... Nov/I think to private trials where appropriate is enough. Vanderhoef/That is not the vision of the Neighborhood Open Space Plan. Norton/ .... says private wide curb lanes for bicycles ..... Are we doing marking streets for bikes? .... Franklin/Jeff.... Davidson/ .... I think the intention was...where appropriate to provide trails ..... that will dictate which strategy is appropriate .... Norton/Then you better put in where appropriate ..... Davidson/I suppose you could add where appropriate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 35 Franklin/All of this is where feasible and where appropriate. This is not law. Norton/If this thing gets too broad, casual, and general, then nobody pays any attention to any of it. Kubby/This is a plan .... Council/(All talking). Thomberry/It is an Iowa City Comp Plan and I don't want somebody to come and say what do you mean you are not going to do this. It is in your Comp Plan and you passed it. Nov/The word plan implies that you change it if you have to. Thomberry/ Nov/Goals and strategies are not cut in stone. Norton/If you say wide curb lanes where appropriate, I can buy that .... Franklin/Where appropriate. Lehman/I think Dee is a good point. If everybody understands that these things are where practical or feasible... When I read this...It says provide wide curb lanes for bicycles .... Vanderhoef/I understand that it is a fluid moving kind of plan but we have already had .... people who come and swear by the Comp Plan .... It is being used out of context and without prioritization .... Franklin/No matter what you write, that is going to happen. Lehman/Where it says maximize the level of transit service during morning and afternoon peak travel periods. What does mean?... On transportation, under promote use of public transportation .... page 49. Franklin/To me that would mean that you provide transit services necessary during those peak times. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 37 Franklin/How about on page 29 1 will put some language about the strategies and how they will be used ..... Norton/Have we anything in here that commits us... to protecting vistas? .... Franklin/Yeah... There is a goal in the environmental protection... protect scenic and historic vistas .... page 37. Norton/ Lehman/The strategy relates only to developed areas of the community .... Franklin/Entranceways- Dee found entranceways in parks and recreation. So we have added reviewing lighting performance standards under that goal, too. Norton/I think they are important to protect. Franklin/You have to say something more than protecting vistas then. How are you going to do that? That is what the strategy should state. Kubby/ Franklin/If there is no strategy that you feel implements the goal that you are focused on, we can always add strategies at anytime .... Norton/I will come up with a strategy to protect vistas. Thomberry/Page approximately 33 on the second goal, Strategy #2.. Set aside 1% if the budget for any public building. I thought we didn't do the 1%. Kubby/We need to update that language. Norton/There are several places where updating is needed. Franklin/You are going to give me those that you caught? Norton/Yes. Thomberry/Wasn't it a maximum of $10,000 a year? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 38 Council/(All talking). Vanderhoef/On that page, strategy third one from the bottom, "Establish a fund to provide financial assistance to local, arts, ...."Rather than the word fund, I would rather see that outlined as a foundation .... Lehman/How about encourage the community to establish a foundation? Kubby/How about establish a funding strategy .... ? Vanderhoef/ Franklin/The strategy in the goal that you are talking about for establish a fund goes beyond. That is for local arts, culture and human development activities sponsored by non-profit groups. That is separate from public art. What about either establish or consider a funding strategy to provide financial assistance .... Kubby/ Franklin/Establish a fund is very explicit. What you are saying is let's not bind ourselves to that and maybe pull in other parties besides the city to do this. Vanderhoef/A partnership kind of thing. Franklin/Okay. Lehman/While you are on that page, the first one, "Expand the public library consistent with the Iowa City Public Library Strategic Plan." Is that being too specific? Thornberry/Their specific plan changes. Lehman/If they change their Strategic Plan, does that invalidate this strategy? Franklin/No because it is consistent with whatever their strategic plan is. Lehman/ Franklin/You had better agree with their strategic plan. Thornberry/What if we can't afford their strategic plan? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 39 Lehman/What if they change their plan and we don't happen to like it? This says we are going to abide by it. Franklin/Then I think you ought to have a meeting with the Library Board and tell them you don't agree with their strategic plan, you are not going to support it. Thomberry/ Kubby/We vote on the library's strategic plan .... Norton/Wording feels a little bit binding. Lehman/I think we have committed to expanding the public library. Why can't we say that? .... Council/(All talking). Nov/What's wrong with agreeing with the library's plan? .... A strategic is not a construction plan .... Council/(All talking). Thomberry/The plan was to get more floor space.. the specifics of that is what we did not agree with. Norton/It is all right, let's chalk it up for Naomi there. Lehman/So how about public recreational facilities-? Council/(All talking). Nov/We are all going to home at 9:30. Franklin/I thought it was 9:00. Council/(All talking). Kubby/We are going to need another session. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting Franklin/Yes, you are. Council/(All talking). Lehman/It says we are going to include public recreational facilities and meeting areas in new schools. Have we talked to the schools about that? Thornberry/This is a maybe. Lehman/It would be nice if they knew about it before we wrote it down. Franklin/We do that already. Kubby/ Franklin/That could be work with the school district to .... Lehman/I can live with that. Franklin/Work with the school district to include .... Kubby/ ....Can't just do it on our own .... Thornberry/It is how specific you want to get ..... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/We will have some statement in the strategy section that will kind of put in those things that we thought were implied. Thornberry/ Lehman/We have got to remember to refer to page 29. Franklin/Yes, just remember that magic page. Vanderhoef/We are talking about real specifics here. And if you say include public art, culture or human development components in the redevelopment plans for parcel 64-1A .... That is very specific and that is a plan that is out there right now .... I think this is too specific. page 40 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 41 Franklin/Look at what the goal is. The goal is elected officials will consider human development factors when making decisions. And so for you to carryout that goal .... then these are some ways that you can do that. But the goal is really what is critical here. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/I guess I would just rather leave 64-1A out of it. Franklin/But then it really doesn't tell you what you are going to do. It is very very general. And I tell you, we are having difficulty with the strategies now, wait until we do the action plan because that gets even more specific .... But that is the only way you do anything. Otherwise you have this book that is on the shelf and you don't do anything. Kubby/We are bouncing around between the different areas. Maybe we could start at the beginning and spend some time with one of them... just the strategies .... Thornberry/Maybe we could do this at the starting at the next meeting .... Norton/A list of what we might regard as infelicities should be sent to you... Lehman/Include that word somewhere in the document .... Franklin/Are they in here now? Norton/There are a few infelicities like Horace Mann is in the wrong district. Kubby/Does that mean we are closing shop? Karr/Did you agree to meet with P/Z on 17th at 6:30? Council/(Yes). Karr/And you want to set up something else other than that? CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-150 SIDE 1 Karr/What you left, I thought, was P/Z, 17th. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 42 Nov/What does it say after that? Karr/You need another session?... Franklin/To do the Strategies, when do you want to meet again to talk about the Strategies for the Comp Plan? Kubby/And other things. Franklin/And other things. Kubby/ ....I like nights where we focus on something .... most productive times. Norton/We hear from public on 11/11. We have a chance to talk directly with P/Z on 11/17. Could we on night of 24th? Kubby/I am out of town. Norton/I wouldn't think it would take long. Lehman/Karin, would you please write page 29 and give us a copy before we meet again. I think that will clarify a lot. Franklin/Absolutely. Vanderhoef/Get some of the new pages with the re-wording of things .... Kubby/What about 11/197 .... Or 22nd, Saturday? 19th? Nov/ ....I really don't want the 12th .... Karr/What about starting earlier the 17th? Thornberry/I like Karen's idea about concentrating on one issue ..... Council/(All talking). Karr/Can we do it earlier the 19th? Does time make a difference? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 43 Vanderhoef/I don't have it written down. I would be happy to go earlier on the 17th. Franklin/Separate meeting .... Council/(All talking). Kubby/When we are doing it before a formal meeting, we have 50 items on our brain and it is harder to focus .... minds are buzzing. Nov/I understand minds are buzzing ..... Kubby/ Norton/We have made some progress ..... Council/(All talking). Norton/Dee, did you find a different time on 19th? Vanderhoef/ Lehman/Did we have something against Thursday? Kubby/I can't do 20th. Nov/(Can't hear). Council/(All talking). Kubby/Wednesday, 11/19, 5:00 PM. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/ Kubby/We can go 5:00 to 7:30 max. Lehman/I don't mind that. Karr/19th. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397 November 3, 1997 Joint City Council-P/Z Commission Meeting page 44 Kubby/Wednesday, 19th, 5:00 to 7:30 max. Adjourned: 9:10 PM. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 3, 1997 WSl10397