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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-11-17 TranscriptionNovember 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 1 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session 7:00 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Miklo, Schoon, Handsaker, Mitchell, Trueblood, Yucuis. Tapes: 97-156, all; 97-157, Side 1. Review Zoning Matters 97-156 S1 a. Consider a motion setting a public heating for December 9 on a resolution approving the annexation of a 2.59 acre tract located at 4575 Highway 6 SE. (ANN97-0003) Comment: At its November 6 meeting, by a vote of 6-0, the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval of the proposed annexation. Staff recommended approval in a report dated October 16. Franklin/The first three items are setting p.h.s. The first one is on annexation of 2 1/2 acres on Highway 6. This is for the Moose Lodge relocation. b. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for December 9 on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by changing the zoning designation for a five acre tract located at 4575 Highway 6 SE from County Rural (A1) (2.59 acres) and Rural Residential (RR-1) (2.41 acres) to RM-20, Medium Density Multi-Family Residential. (REZ97-0017) Franklin/ .... zoning for the same item. The reason the annexation is 2 and the zoning is more is because part of this ground is already in the city limits. It is that farm house that was out there and part of it is not. c. Consider a motion setting a public heating for December 9 on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article B, "Zoning Definitions," Section 2, by changing the definition of Transient Housing to increase the number of days persons are able to stay as temporary residents. Franklin/The third item is setting a p.h. to December 9 on a Zoning Ordinance Amendment and this is to address the issue of tenure or how long people stay in emergency housing and it is to reflect the practice as opposed to what we have on the books now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 2 d. Public heating on the Comprehensive Plan, including the South District Plan. (continued from October 21 and November 11) Franklin/The p.h. on the Comprehensive Plan and this should be continued again to December 9th since you will be having your meeting with the P/Z Commission on the 19th. And you have received or will receive a letter from Southgate Development ..... tomorrow night. Thomberry/Regarding what? Franklin/It is regarding the South District Plan and they are suggesting that we not rezone the Gilbert Street Corridor to CC-2 but to wait and see how traffic counts pan out and whether the market seems to lend itself to that .... It is zoned CI-1 now .... This is just south of Highway 6 and then down the railroad tracks .... Nov/It seems to me that at least part of it is logically CC-2. Franklin/We thought so and with development in the South District, it is likely that that road is going to be seeing an increasing amount of traffic .... e. Consider a resolution approving the a~mexation of a 2.81 acre tract located southeast of the intersection of Iowa Highway 1 and Naples Avenue. (ANN97-0002) Franklin/The resolution for the annexation for the Miller property out on Highway 1 West ..... f. Amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing the use regulations of a 2.81 acre tract, located southeast of the intersection of Iowa Highway 1 and Naples Avenue, from County CP- 1, Planned Commercial, to CI- 1, Intensive Commercial. (REZ97-0014) (1) Public Heating (continued from November 11) (2) Consider an Ordinance (First consideration) Franklin/Public hearing and first consideration of the ordinance to rezone. I expect to have a signed CZA tomorrow with the changes that the council requested... landscaping on the outside of the fence .... g. Consider an ordinance amending the approved Sensitive Areas Development Plan for Walden Hills to allow the development of 120 dwelling units on Lot 53, containing 8.66 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 3 acres and located within the OSA-8, Sensitive Areas Overlay zone at the northwest comer of Rohret Road and Shannon Drive. (REZ97-0016) (First consideration) Franklin/First consideration on Walden Hills, Lot 53, the Bums project, 120 units. h. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing the use regulations of a 0.87 acre tract, located on the east side of West Side Drive and south of Earl Road, from RM-12, Low Density Multi-Family Residential and CI-1, Intensive Commercial, to CO-l, Commercial Office. (REZ97-0004) (First consideration) Franklin/First consideration on the rezoning for the insurance company on West Side Drive. Lehman/On item g., this is limited to the rezoning, is that correct? And the configuration of the lot with the layout of the building? Franklin/Yes, as opposed to what? Lehman/Does this have anything to do with the use of those buildings? Franklin/No, what you are approving in the 120 dwelling units. Lehman/Are we not also approving the layout? Franklin/Yes. Lehman/The way it is configured on the lot? Franklin/You are approving the building design, the site plan, which is the building layout and the density. Lehman/Fine, okay .... just talking about density and site plan. Norton/ Nov/ Franklin/He indicated there would be a covenant but that is his choice. That is all on Zoning items. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 4 Norton/This is just for the office part of it .... Franklin/Right .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 5 Downtown Streetscape Plan 97-156 $1 Nov/Downtown Streetscape Plan. Franklin/Bob Kost from BRW is here to give you an update on the Downtown Streetscape Plan .... work of the committee to date and what he has done to date and you don't need to make any decisions tonight .... Bob Kost/We have been working on the Downtown Streetscape Plan for about six weeks now... three meetings with the Task Force .... Give you some sense of where we are on the project. We have started this... collecting information... electronic base map... looking at existing conditions .... reading background data .... get us going and start to create a framework for looking at upgrading, enhancing and making some changes to downtown streetscape ..... Put together a base map... project area being south of Iowa Avenue, west by Capitol, east by Gilbert and south by Burlington .... perimeters streets .... Physical environment .... broader context... history of downtown Iowa City .... street layout .... space around that... historic buildings ....pedestrian mall improvement ....urban renewal improvements... Some of the things ....found interesting ....warm and friendly the whole streetscape appears... green ....pleasant... number of times that needs attention from a maintenance... replacement... enhancement standpoint .... lighting .... woodwork .... streetlight fixtures .... different levels of lighting .... recommendation is to introduce new signature light fixtures throughout the downtown .... fountain area... pavement rough and uneven... paver bricks create some problem for people when they walk with... dress shoes.. The deteriorating fountain itself.... It is our sense .... that the fountain really has seen its better days...problems for the city in terms of liability... maintenance... Our recommendation at this point is to look at removing it but replacing it with a different kind of water feature that would be safer. The input that we need to get from the council .... task force... What direction would you like a new water feature to go? Do you want it to continue to be interactive so people can play in it? How much liability does the city want to assume? Form a maintenance perspective... reduce the amount of maintenance that is involved .... design... safer... Improve way finding and parking image .... easier to find public parking... signs through the downtown district .... It is still really quite difficult to find your way and identify downtown .... We think that is something that needs addressing .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 6 Play surface and play equipment is another liability issue as well as a maintenance issue .... woods is falling apart, needs constant maintenance. Current playground standards. This playground does not meet ADA standards .... It is also quite dangerous...surrounding pavement which is really very close to the structure .... they could get hurt. What we recommend is just looking at replacement of that .... a surrounding situation in terms of the surfacing and being able to accommodate the handicapped. Nov/Before you get to the next board, are there any council comments on these features? Lehman/If the water feature is replaced by another water feature, won't the maintenance be relatively the same as it would on this one? Kost/There is a certain aspect of built-in maintenance with water features, that is correct. I think that the technology for fountains and for water features is 20 years ahead of where it was when this one went in .... plumbing works is a little more sophisticated and a lot more reliable. But in terms of having to maintain a water feature ..... Lehman/ Kost/There are ways to re-design or to design a new water feature... that may have less maintenance than this one .... Kubby/Could we retrofit this one? Kost/You could put new equipment in it but that wouldn't necessarily change the liability aspect. But that is certainly a possibility. You could refurbish the brick .... Nov/We have to be careful about how much we change it .... paving bricks .... historic Iowa City and they have some relevance because they were made in Iowa City .... Whether or not any water feature is going to be entirely safe is a question that any lawyer is going to argue about .... I think you have to be very careful... I would prefer that we remove the plumbing and redo it but not make any drastic changes. Thornberry/I ..... would like to see something different as opposed to water coming off onto the street where somebody could inadvertently walk through the water .... It is just a walkway. There is no delineation .... This has been going on for quite some time .... I could see something around there maybe raised .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 7 Norton/There are ways to conceivably maintain some of that fountain .... Are you talking at all about raising the general profile of that area .... ? Kost/It is a low point where the two streets used to come together .... Norton/Wouldn't it possible to incorporate new features with the old... retain some aspect of the fountain but improve its safety and its protection? Kost/Absolutely, if that was the council's direction .... Thornberry/ Nov/ Kost/One of the reasons... sense to look at different water feature in this location is to build in more flexibility into this area of the streetscape. Because of the water feature, where it is located at sort of the crossing point and the need to accommodate the Friday Night Concerts .... So much is built in already in the streetscape... If it was the council's desire to remove the water feature... but still have a water feature of some sort, we would explore a water feature design that would be allowed to be either shut down or walked over .... create vertical water effects... allow the area then to be used for other uses when the water feature wasn't on. Nov/That is the same problem... Baker/I think the council is making a real mistake if you don't remove that fountain. Put something in there completely different as a focal point that is safer, more water accessible, more dramatic .... that is a key decision and that fountain has outlived its usefulness .... It ought to be removed and something else put in... A water feature that would be even more interactive .... Thornberry/I do, too ....still be the fountain area ....see some other designs... Norton/We could move this fountain to another location .... doing something else .... considerable community effort went into putting it together .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 8 Lehman/A lot of people had a lot of input into that fountain .... reluctant to see that fountain just plain removed and gone. If it could be relocated and still enjoyed by the folks who helped .... Remember... whatever kind of water feature you put down there, it is going to be played on by kids .... Nov/And it is not going to be safe .... Lehman/There has never been a claim against the city in 20 years for any injuries on that fountain. Baker/ .... last time we acknowledged the liability on another site in Iowa City .... within six months we had a million dollar lawsuit .... We are overdue... This is the time to come up with a new feature ....much more dramatic, safer .... Vanderhoef/Something that has not been spoken up here... have to have some better information about how to keep the safely .... filtration system... before I would consider interactive water feature .... If we are going to let the children back into it, there has got to be some very fine tuning on the equipment .... I am not heating that it is safe for children to play in .... Norton/But the water could turn over and go through a filtration system .... West Palm Beach .... the mayor down there .... liability questions... They have a method of keeping the water clean... Vanderhoef/Until I know that there is that capability, I am not interested in having children play in it. Kubby/...that is a criteria... Kost/You would probably want to upgrade it .... using it .... wading pool standard... chlorinate the water... necessary filtration and water feature design perimeters... Kubby/It makes sense first to talk about what is the atmosphere you want to create .... then you say it has to be safe in terms of surface and the quality of water .... Vanderhoef/ Nov/We have also had a lot of comments about the brick being unsafe when they are wet .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 9 Kubby/For tonight... do we want to keep the current water feature or do we?- Norton/A new water feature? Kost/I don't think you have to decide tonight. It sounds .... not an easy problem .... What I was trying to do is point out to you that we understand these these items are issues and as we go through the design process we are going to try and address them and get input .... direction we have received to date from individuals on the taskforce as it relates to the water feature is they want to see water continue to be downtown. They would like the water to be able to continue to engage people for play and fun... most of them concur that they would like to see a different water feature ..... Thornberry/On a playground area, how do you make a kid's slide handicapped accessible? Kost/You can't. Thornberry/Does all of the equipment have to be handicapped accessible? Kost/No .... you need to be able to provide a certain amount of activity ..... engaged in some form .... There are certain kinds of diggers... climbers... swing .... It wouldn't be that we would be expecting the entire lay structure to be handicapped accessible ..... surfacing so that it is safe. Thornberry/Were you talking about expanding that area or just reconfiguring the playground area to make it safer? Kost/We haven't gotten to that point yet .... pull this one out... look at a new set of equipment .... I don't think anybody wants it to be a whole lot smaller than this .... We need to make sure .... is... small children... and college aged .... Nov/College Green Park seems to be used by all ages and it seems to be holding up. Thornberry/ ....that playground is utilized by the college students late at night .... Kost/Some other factors .... increasing lighting .... pretty low light levels... not real friendly .... doing some things with the way we implement the light strategy .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 10 bike racks .... a few...don't work real well .... let's integrate and do all the bike racks the same .... Integrate the ped mall into the rest of the surrounding streets through the use of signature light fixtures and other kinds of accouterments .... spread those throughout the downtown so the downtown feels more integrated .... paving, light fixtures, street furniture .... public art .... Kubby/With the understory upwards lighting, I worry about lights going to more places than it is really needed .... I am interested in making it seem safer and be safer but to have it very designed to it does it function and no more than that. Kost/Good point... if you walk it today now that all the leaves are off.... light level seems more even .... may be another way we attack this problem .... seasonal lighting... holiday lighting .... Baker/ Kubby/It is more about letting the sky be as dark as it can and still be safe for us. Upward lighting tends to light the sky .... reduce the light sky. Nov/If the trees are the problem, moving the light fixture... could help also. Lehman/How much of the light problem downtown could be improved by keeping the trees properly trimmed? Kost/Some, I don't think that is the problem. Lehman/...downtown... continuity throughout downtown. Is there any thought to increasing the level of lighting, for example, on Washington Street? Kost/Thank you very much. Other things that we want to look at doing: The overstory lights, the streets lights .... don't need to be replaced.., might want to... new color for street furniture .... unifying that throughout the downtown district. To get all the street furniture and street elements to kind of coordinate in that fashion. Another area is the chess board. It is really deteriorating .... Similar facility up in Minneapolis .... neat thing to have... colored concrete .... alternate colors of brick. The wood has outlasted its usefulness .... fallen into disrepair .... Nov/Would you recommend moving that in order to have enough space for playground equipment? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 11 Kost/We may want to look at that ..... central location .... can be multi-use... stage area or a dance floor. So in that general vicinity, it seems to make sense .... Nov/I was thinking that the playground is too close to the brick .....take out area... Kost/We would want to look at that and physically plan ..... Where the playground is, it is in the right location. Kubby/ ....buffer that blank wall .... Kost/I would hope that we wouldn't have to touch those trees. They are really nice ..... provide a lot of shade on that playground .... Comments on the brick paving as you go throughout the downtown .... perimeters streets .... bricks edging that was done to create planting areas, that detail .... patched .... we are suggesting that that be removed .... other materials... creates a barrier to people from wrecking the trees... Its detailing has really outlived itself.... Let's remove it but replace it with something else .... evaluate some different materials with the task force .... Litter receptacles .... replaced throughout downtown ..... Would like to see benches, litter receptacles, lighting all work together with color form material and texture. Same with the old bike racks .... Another problem with where the brick intersects the concrete, trip edges and dips .... decide to either reset that brick on a rigid base... or do we take the brick up .... in some cases, tree grates have outlived their usefulness .... time to retire those .... Some cases... trees have been replaced... some tree grate locations... new tree every 4-5 years... might say that is probably not a good location for a tree ....time to put new bricks or concrete sidewalk and call it a day. Lehman/ .... grate slightly lower than ground level so that water runs into it .... Kost / Adjust the pitch of a sidewalk to drain surface water into the planting area. Nov/ ....edge .... Kost/It is a pretty subtle deal ....I don't think this was set up this way intentionally .... Nov/What about changing to something like the bottom picture? .... Kost/ ....Could be maybe we could look at... change the pavement maybe? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 12 Vanderhoef/Something that you haven't addresses... newspaper vending machines. I would like to see something designed that everything was the same .... all the same and all in the same location .... Lehman/ Vanderhoef/It is definitely time to get this out of here ....everything is all one color. Kost/There are ways to handle newspaper vending machines .... have a kiosk ....pod... There are mechanisms for handling that .... Vanderhoef/I would like to hang them... blank brick wall over by the children's play area .... Kubby/ ....I like different locations ....I like them scattered around ....I don't mind having a dual strategy .... Thornberry/Ought to be two locations... by library .... by Vanderhoef's place. Kost/The graphics I have here... summarize...photograph information... distribute these ideas .... legend up in here indicates what these symbols mean... end up in our final report for our streetscape ..... (Reviews plan-symbols). Start at the top along Iowa Avenue .... motorists gateway into downtown .... purple arrows... we want to coordinate the improvements that were suggesting with the Iowa Avenue Streetscape Project .... parking structure... red angles lines .... new angled parking .... we want to look at evaluating how effective that is .... concrete curb and gutter .... bright purples arrows... sense of unify downtown by integrating adjacent street with the pedestrian mall .... Washington and Clinton... all come together ..... change in how the buses operates... red asterisks ..... kiosk feature .... something that is a little more colorful... work together with the street furniture... The fountain area has been identified... play area .... discussion with the taskforce .... evaluate moving a planter or two... make way... outdoor dining .... workable option .... Nov/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 13 Kost/Right now we have a zone that runs through the center that is the emergency vehicle area and so we couldn't bring tables out through there for outdoor dining... could occur between the buildings and the trees and planters .... We sacrifice a planter or two in order to accommodate that .... something we are looking at. Thomberry/ Kost/A good tree canopy .... Kubby/ Kost/Trees in the pedestrian mall are so healthy and they are doing so well because they have been so well protected .... Other couple of things we are looking at doing here... Making some changes in Blackhawk Park .... open that up... as well as this area by Hardees ....may be in discussion with the building owner... getting that wall to be a mural .... CHANGE TAPE TO 97-156 SIDE 2 Kubby/ ....what we put there can't be things that you can pry off and take away .... Nov/You could put in a mural .... Kubby/Or a graffiti wall that is changeable would be interesting. Kost/Other thing... (refers to plan) around the parking lot area... Butterfly... makes sense... when new development .... perhaps this edge could be reinforced... line of trees... feel more finished .... areas along Gilbert, Linn, Clinton where street trees have died or not been planted .... translate this diagram into this one which is basically what we call our Preliminary Design Framework ..... We want perimeter streets... integrate the level of commitment and improvements in the pedestrian mall with the rest of downtown .... pedestrian lighting, street trees... replace brick planter edges... new benches... litter receptacles... repair sidewalks ....finding system .... Then for the pedestrian mall treatment .... another notion... idea of pedestrian mall treatment down on Dubuque Street and making the area more pedestrian friendly, less like a loading area .... This area, gateway to Near South Side seems to be much more dedicated to the automobile .... (refers to plan). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 14 Lehman/ .... Holiday Inn .... large buses park there overnight .... I don't see how we are going to be able to make that more pedestrian oriented. Kubby/With materials and textures .... help connect it visually .... Kost/.. ..might make some sense .... buses aren't suppose to be parking there anymore .... We have someone from Holiday Inn management on the taskforce .... working with them .... buses... over to a remote location .... narrowing the street a little bit .... look at losing... couple of parking spaces... things we need to explore there (refers to plan) ..... Vanderhoef/Because of the... configuration... more interesting .... move that emphasis .... a block west to connect with the South Side .... trying to get commercial to go to the South Side .... continuation of Clinton Street activity .... great enhancement there and less emphasis over there (refers to plans) .... narrowing down .... Kost/Other thing .... discussion of desire .... extend these kinds of treatments .... all the way up to Iowa Avenue .... get the northern part of Dubuque Street to feel much more like an extension of the rest of the pedestrian mall .... Kubby/ Kost/ Vanderhoef/Connecting the same can be said for the Clinton Street activity ..... that we are promoting retail downtown and Burlington Street activity. They are coming in on Burlington and the places to park are there. Seems to me the invitation to go into town should be on Clinton Street. Kost/Especially from the motorists perspective. Vanderhoef/From all of our visitors who are inviting them to come in and partake of what is happening downtown. Thornberry/ Norton/We talked a lot at one time about connecting downtown more thoroughly to the Near South Side ..... same thing might be said for the Washington Street/Linn This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 15 Street intersection ....I think that comer needs to get more attention that I see it getting .... Vanderhoef/What we are saying... we have a four block area that we are looking at first before we start extending north on Dubuque Street. Kost/So that would be a much lower priority as far as improvement? Vanderhoef/It might be .... Kost/That is something we will be coming back... get input from you on phasing when we get to that point .... Lehman/We are hoping to see some development take place on the Near South Side .... area along Burlington Street is very very important .... I would much rather see development in the other area and let this sort of thing take place when development occurs on the south side of Burlington. There is nothing to go to there now .... Council/ Vanderhoeff I would like to be ready with Clinton Street .... Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 16 Deer Management Update 97-156 S2 Lisa Handsaker/I just wanted to give you a brief update on a meeting that occurred last week .... R. J., Ron Fort, Misha, Dennis and I met with two gentlemen from the U. S. Department of Agriculture .... Missouri office .... Ames .... We wanted some help from them on specific areas to pick out for safe sharpshooting .... They said that there was no way, in their opinion, that the City of Iowa City could get their deer population under control with bow and arrow hunting .... We need to do something a little more aggressive .... They .... looked at our districts that we picked up before... 10-15 areas for very safe sharpshooting in Areas 2 & 7. We also have heavy deer populations in 3,4, & 5 .... impact on inner areas if we do some reducing in the outer areas .... The U.S. Department of Agriculture has received authorization from the U.S. Attorney General to use silencers .... There is nothing in the State of Iowa Code that would prohibit them from using them here .... a special permit to use them .... Dennis will have our petition and brief finished by the end of this week and we will have the whole plan then submitted to the Department of Natural Resources. We just wanted to receive some kind of guidance from you if it would be okay to include in our plan that the USDA actually perform our sharpshooting if it were allowed by the DNR. Thornberry/They would perform the sharpshooting? Handsaker/Yes .... estimate... high number .... $175 per deer .... that would not include field dressing or processing. Kubby/Why would be go that route if we have city employees who could do it? Handsaker/They are as professional as you can get... safety was a concerned. They just got done with a total eradication of the O'Hare Airport .... They can use silencers .... It will be done a lot quicker with them .... Lehman/How would handle... the carcasses and the processing? Handsaker/The locker in Solon... expressed interest in having the truck out there. They would pick them up .... They will take care of them completely .... Thomberry/ Norton/She said the price goes down if they do a lot of them .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 17 Nov/ Thornberry/ Handsaker/What the charges actually include is travel here, their hotel, meals .... complete package for them. Norton/ ....for the first effort ....use someone experienced ..... Lehman/I absolutely agree. Handsaker/As soon as they were requested to do so ..... Norton/These are people from where? Handsaker/Columbia, Missouri... Ed Hardin is the State Director of Wildlife Services for the three states ..... Scott Beckerman is from our Ames Office .... Thornberry/Are we looking at this season? Handsaker/The City is looking at that. I don't know if the State will be able to make a decision by then. January and February was always the time that we wanted to attempt this. Nov/Let's go ahead and do it. Norton/What kind of a commitment do you need to make? Handsaker/With the USDA .... If the State gives us permission .... Kubby/My only concern... maintenance of the deer population later... combined strategy ..... Handsaker/This committee... would never decide to use bow and arrow hunting in town. However that doesn't mean that another group of folks wouldn't .... One of the most important things in deer reduction ....community acceptance of whatever method you choose. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 18 Norton/If we go to the USDA group, does that cause any difficulty with others you have talked to who have volunteered their services? .... Handsaker/...they simply offered their services .... Vanderhoef/...we need to be aggressive for at least 2-3 years. Handsaker/Three years .... take out at least 109 does per year. Vanderhoef/ Handsaker/By establishing a Special Management Zone around Iowa City .... It could help some of our fringe areas .... they said up special programs in those fringe areas .... to try and get those numbers at a more reasonable level. Thornberry/These USDA people... they do it in the county, cities? Handsaker/In the State of Illinois, for example, they have been utilized before, the State actually set up certain groups of folks who can perform nuisance animal reduction .... There are certain agencies who can ask for their help. Thornberry/Missouri, Iowa and Minnesota. Does Minnesota have a law prohibiting? Handsaker/Minnesota currently sharpshoots. Thomberry/What about Missouri? Handsaker/The USDA has done some field assessments there .... We have a long way to go .... Norton/Let's go for it ..... Nov/We are on time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 19 Airport Commercial Area/Project Committees (IP1 11/14/97) 97-156 S2 Arkins/In your packet was a memo (Atkins 11/13/97 memo re: Airport Commercial Area/Project Development Teams) I gave you creating a Technical Committee and a Policy Committee .... Ron has already met informally with his Commissioners and they indicated support for the idea .... We will develop an agenda and get the project moving. Thornberry/On the Technical Committee, seemed like it was heavily weighed in the favor of the city if there is a conflict. Atkins/That committee is not intended to be like a voting group .....pool their resources .... Nov/Technical advice but not decision. Atkins/ Norton/They would also do technical work on the issue of private versus public. Atkins/Absolutely .... I do need the Policy Group to present this information. Nov/When I first thought about this... I thought we were going to set up a committee that would write a request for proposal. Atkins/A request for proposal and the contract between the Council and the Commission...substantially one in the same .... I think you are going to need the same basic information. Nov/It appears in this memo that they may not write a RFP? Atkins/We would frame an agreement between the Commission and the Council .... understanding we would have between the two bodies... on how you want to see this develop or that agreement is the framework for putting it out for proposal to a private developer saying this is how we want to develop, what will you charge us. I think you can accomplish both of those .... Norton/Interplay between those two .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 20 Atkins/Once you call the committee, I would like to call the four of them together and...sit down for a brainstorming session. What are the issues? Make a list. Kubby/ ....I would like to serve on the committee. Nov/I would like somebody new to serve on the committee and Dee Norton and Ernie have both volunteered and I think it would be reasonable to have somebody new .... Kubby/Sounds like it has been done before this meeting? .... Nov/I am suggesting that someone who has been involved before is not necessarily the criteria... there have been two other volunteers. Thomberry/ ....I just as soon not be on it .... Vanderhoef/I think they can do a good job for us. Atkins/Did you make your selection? Nov/If there is some agreement. There are three people who volunteered at this point .... Thornberry/I got no problem with Dee and Ernie. Norton/ Atkins/I don't expect the committee will have to vote much. Norton/ Arkins/You are going to try to frame the issues and bring them back to your respective bodies. Kubby/ ....that we be kept updated. Arkins/I think the committee can do a good bit of leg work for both commission and city council .... You are also going to have to authorize the money. The Airport Commission doesn't have a nickel unless you want to give it to them .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 21 Nov/And you are thinking of a relatively short period of time? A couple of months? Atkins/Oh, yeah. By spring time we want to have things in pretty good order .... Mike... Connie, I need to get them updated on the airport project ....I just need a working committee .... Kubby/Interesting to have some choices .... public... private... partnerships... Atkins/Personally, I would like to see that .... Vanderhoef/ .....go ahead and put out as many options as we can. Kubby/I would love to see those three options and kind of the pros and cons outlined for US .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/Certainly more than one option. Nov/ ....Personally would like to see a formal request for proposal written because that is the way that you formalize and organize .... Norton/ Atkins/There is nothing wrong with that .... Vanderhoef/Outside input. Kubby/Well, have fun you guys. Atkins/Okay. Did I hear Ernie and Dee Norton? Nov/I think I hear concurrence on that. Atkins/I will contact ....and Dick Blum and ....Rick Mascari. Nov/Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 22 Cemetery Update 97-156 S2 Nov/(Handout: 30 Year Concept Oakland Cemetery Master Expansion Plan 1997; 11/8/96 Woito memo re: Summary of Conclusions Regarding Legal Opinion: Is The Land East of the City Cemetery Restricted to Cemetery Use?) Okay folks, we all have memos. Trueblood/What I had distributed to you, the memos, are just background information. That is not new .... pertains primarily just to the potential legal issue of expanding the cemetery into Hickory Hill Park .... summary... A former City Attorney, Linda Woito, had expressed an opinion that you could, in fact, dedicate that land that was purchased for cemetery land, 40 acres, you could dedicate it for parkland property if you want to in the absence of any opposition from the Gaulocher family .... family members .... correspondence back .... entire 40 acres should in fact be used as cemetery land. The fourth one said that 10 acres of land should be used as cemetery .... rest could be dedicated as parkland .... Linda had written the opinion ..... recommendation that 10 acres of the 40 acres be utilized as cemetery based upon what she had heard from the family and basically indicated that there could be a legal problem if the city council decides not to do that. We have... some conceptual plans .... 30 year plan, a 10 acre plan and a 40 acre intermingled use plan .... P/R Commission discussed this issue... We have a tie ball game and we are going into overtime. It was a 4-4 vote .... motion was to opt for a plan which takes approximately 10 acres of the parkland .... and recommend that the other 30 acres be dedicated as parkland and the motion failed on a 4-4 vote .... I will go over quickly the plans (refers 30 Year Concept) .... this area here is groomed as cemetery ground .... part of the 40 acres .... Over in this area... almost nine acres .... always used as cemetery... We do have about three acres already protruding in those 40 acres. Norton/So there would be a total of four if you include these green areas? .... Trueblood/More like five .... Between these two areas, could accommodate... low end 600 lots per acre ....high end is 1400 lots per acre. There are a lot of variables .... cremations ....full body burials .... Nov/What is columbarium? Trueblood/Columbarium is sort of like a mausoleum for cremains .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 23 The second one is the 10 acre plan (refers to 10 Acre Concept). The green area is what would be proposed for cemetery use... showing how many lots per acre based on a variety of things .... Lehman/How much land is actually used in this concept? Trueblood/10 acres... the green part is 10 acres .... Norton/Of the 40, that would be over ten .... Trueblood/Up here it gives you that formula. (refers to 40 Acre Concept). The approach the consultant took was unless you want to bulldoze everything in that 40 acres, about 10 acres is useable for cemetery space. Thornberry/ Trueblood/ .... This one just shows a few more options .... possibility of free standing mausoleum, free standing lots .... estate lots .... not a lot of space allowed for that .... Thomberry/The area in green on the 40 acre concept, it is the same size or larger than the green area on the 10 acre concept. Trueblood/They are almost identical .... Thornberry/It has about five turn arounds on the road ....Does that mean you can get more burial plots in the 10 acre concept? Trueblood/The fewer roadways you put in, the more burial lots you get put in .... Kubby/But the 10 acre concept was the one that was voted on? Trueblood/The motion was to take approximately 10 acres ..... 10 new acres ....I think Linda's recommendation was based on 10 new acres .... Lehman/Between the last two plans... seem to me that the 10 acre concept is much more compatible with the park than the one you are showing .... Trueblood/I think that they are both very similar .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session Nov/The 40 acre has more roadway. Trueblood/It means there is much better access for cemetery purposes. Nov/I am talking about above the green. Trueblood/Those are trails ..... Vanderhoef/How does this 30 concept... smaller parcels... compare to the one that we looked at 1 1/2 years ago? Is this avoiding that first deep ravine to the east? ..... Trueblood/No, it is not avoiding that .... Vanderhoef/ Trueblood/ Baker/I thought you said .... green area was approximately the same size. Why is one called a ten acre and the other one called a 40 acre? Kubby/One dedicates the other 30 to go back. Baker/ Trueblood/The three plans... one was what we need to expand the cemetery by 30 years of lot sale .... Other one was a 10 acre plan... third one was a plan utilizing the 40 acres with cemetery intermingled with park use .... That plan to intermingle is going to have to be very similar to the 10 acre plan because that is the area that is best used for cemetery. Baker/In both cases you still have approximately 30 acres for parkland. Trueblood/That is correct. Norton/ .... aware that only some of the land is topographical suitable ..... for cemetery ..... Seems like a big jump between the first two plans. Baker/ page 24 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session Norton/ ....could dedicate the whole thing for park... at some risk of litigation .... Baker/Give them the ten acres. Lehman/I would say do the 10 but at the same time dedicate the other 30 so there is never another question... to park .... Nov/As a formal resolution. Thornberry/That is telling the family- Nov/The family said ten acres. Baker/The rest of it is not useable anyway. Council/(All talking). Norton/I was looking for something that left as much of this for park use .... Trueblood/The four people who voted against it .... don't want to expand it into the park at all. Lehman/I don't consider that an option ........ 10 acres... dedicate the other 30 acres... might be the best way we are honoring their wishes ..... Vanderhoef/ CHANGE TAPE TO 97-157 SIDE 1 Vanderhoef/Could we drop off that last loop? (Refers to plans). page 25 Trueblood/As you know, the same consultant is working on a trail plan as on this plan .... he shows one of the major trails running (refers to trail plan). One of the major trails would run right up through there... dotted line is the 40 acres ....major trail running up north of the green space... one right at the east edge of it. Norton/I think Dee's point is well taken. Kubby/Dee, we can't hear you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 26 Norton/If you took off the... east end to it and count the three acres you had, you would still do more than 10 and protect as much of the park that you could and still accommodate the cemetery ..... Kubby/ ....we are used to using 20 year plans .... Baker/ Lehman/Far different planning than any other service the city provides .... Baker/10 acre concept. Norton/ Thornberry/Linda Woito statement... conclusion... Gaulocher...would they need to give their blessing for the other 30 acres to eliminate any chance of litigation? Trueblood/My understanding is that they would, if they gave their blessing ahead of time and we did it in some official manner, then there wouldn't be anything to worry about as far as litigation ..... Dilkes/I think the same legal analysis applies to the whole 40 acre tract .... 10 acres is what Linda came up with after talking to some of the heirs .... also expressed eventually the full 40 acres should be cemetery land .... Kubby/ ....not possible to do the 40 acres .... Dilkes/Just by doing the 10 acre plan, you don't eliminate all the risk if you don't try and get their concurrence for the dedication of the remaining 30. Thornberry/Didn't you walk this property with one of the family members? Trueblood/Yes I did. She was also at the Commission meeting last week... She was the one that preferred to see a 40 acre plan .... My contacts with her... favorably impressed with possibility of using ten acres. Nov/Nice .... dedicate 10 acres, dedicate 30 acres and did it in some formal way with family .... make an event. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 27 Norton/Yes .... Thornberry/ ....contact... her ....other members of the family .... Trueblood/I don't know what contact she has been having with the other family .... Thornberry/I would like the family be aware of what we are doing before we do it .... get her blessing on the ten acres ....make an event ....W e would like to include her in the festivities. Trueblood/The only point I am unclear now- I think I hear you all saying that you want to proceed with- Kubby/Not all of us. Trueblood/That the majority of you want to proceed with some sort of a approximately ten acre plan. Thomberry/ What did you want to do? Kubby/I either want to go with a smaller acreage or cut off the end of the ten acres. Norton/Me, too .... just trade an acre or so on the east end there to keep from getting up against that trail .... Baker/ Nov/ ....it is green space .... Thornberry/ Norton/ Nov/I think that will be the last part developed ..... Vanderhoef/What I read .... for infants .... Trueblood/That is only a concept ..... don't have nearly as many infant burials ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 28 Norton/I just want to get on record that the 10 acres suits me fine but I would include the three they have already got. Vanderhoef/I do, too. Lehman/ Trueblood/It was not donated. The land was not donated. It was sold. Nov/But this is cemetery road that you are connecting to .....Point to where there is a connection to the current cemetery. Trueblood/(Refers to 10 Acre Concept Plan). Vanderhoef/Which one is more intrusive into the park (refers to plans)? Trueblood/This one isn't as intrusive .....(refers to plans). Vanderhoef/If you were going to eliminate three acres... east or south? ..... Trueblood/I really can't answer that right now. Kubby/ Norton/ Lehman/I would like to see this settled once and for all. Kubby/At one point... discussion... thought of replacing whatever acreage...add some directly to the park. Baker/Let's do it. Norton/Should we look into that? Baker/Yes. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WS 111797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 29 Vanderhoef/At some point in time... probably all that land will be up for development and there will be some dedication. Kubby/That could be small pocket parks .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/We might .... northeast area .... region to the left .... It might be there is some process of buffering the park... extension of the park .... Thornberry/ ....watershed. Norton/Idea of considering adding some land on the other end .... would be appropriate. Nov/I would not like to see it as a condition ..... Kubby/I would like us to direct staff to explore that acre for acre. Vanderhoef/I think it should go back to P/R to look at their master plan of purchase of land and how to spend their money .... Nov/ Thornberry/ Kubby/ ....suggesting that we put the value out there to the community... in making this decision that we want to find a way to add onto this kind of park .... Thornberry/I don't think we were taking parkland away for cemetery .... I don't really see why we would have to replace acre for acre... since it wasn't a park to begin with. Kubby/ .... how people used the land .... I want to have the same amount of land to be used .... by people as parkland .... Thornberry/They can walk through the cemetery. Kubby/Totally different kind of use .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 30 Norton/We added a lot of conservation area .... Council/(All talking). Baker/Do you want P/R Commission to explore the possibility of expanding Hickory Hill Park to compensate for a perceived loss ofparkland for cemetery? I think that is a good idea ..... contiguous to Hickory Hill. Council/(All talking). Vanderhoef/They will look at their Master Plan .... Kubby/The direction that we are giving them right now, it is about being adjacent to the current- Thornberry/I am not giving them that direction. Baker/Three people are so far-If possible make it adjacent to. Kubby/I think it is six. Lehman/No, I wouldn't go along with that .... You are looking at an area that has an abundance of parkland. There may be other areas that need parkland. Kubby/We are not dictating that they do it. We are just saying that we would like them to explore it .... have this on their list ..... Thornberry/ Kubby/ Baker/I am saying I would prefer to have land adjacent or contiguous to Hickory Hill Park used... to increase the size of Hickory Hill Park. Thornberry/ ....I don't think you got that direction ....That is three. Norton/I would ask for them to explore the possibility of expanding on the other side to balance this out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 31 Thomberry/I am saying that or other areas like Naomi did. Kubby/ Norton/We have got three .... In any case, this ten acre expansion or 13 acre expansion will proceed slowly in any event ..... P/R... I don't want to step on their toes. Nov/I think I hear a majority in favor of the ten acre concept. Kubby/And no further direction. Trueblood/Just a point of information. On the ten acres or approximate ten acres, if we look at the figures given to us by the consultant, that could accommodate lot sales for anywhere from 130 to 310 years .... Is there any direction that you want me to give to the consultant? .... Lehman/I think we need to do this as inobtrusively as we possibly can .... Norton/Also incorporates an interest towards modem burial .... Nov/Thank you, Terry. Vanderhoef/Are we going to have any discussion of your trails? .... Trueblood/ ....reference. Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 32 Low Income Policy 97-157 S1 Nov/Don, when I was asking about the differences, I was thinking about water and wastewater. All we have here is the entire difference .....not very meaningful ....I still don't know what we are doing .... Kubby/ Nov/I don't know what difference the discount is making ..... Norton/For comparison purposes .... take an ordinary 800 c.f. user, to go through 6397. Correct me if I am wrong, the 6425, correct? Now if you take somebody that qualifies for the discount under the present scheme, their bill goes up $4.87 in a $44 base? 20 times as a percentage increase. Nov/It is a 10% increase. Norton/But the other one is 4/10ths of a percent. So it is 20 times as large. Nov/We are throwing in something that didn't increase at all. Norton/ Nov/I would still like to see something where we can say that solid waste didn't change .... What is the change for just water and wastewater? Norton/We can do those figures here. Kubby/Do other people need that information and for what purpose? The bill is the bill .... Norton/Naomi, however you look at it, it seems unreasonable to increase the 800 c.f. user by 4/10ths of a percent ....and the other person $4.87. Isn't that what it would come to? Yucuis/If you did no change with the Discount Program, the person or family that qualifies for the discount program, in changing the minimum from 200 to 100, you are cutting down the amount of pay at the low end .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 33 Nov/So people are going to be paying more than they did before? .... Can we make it so that they do pay more than what they did before because we have a general rate increase but not that much more? Norton/He has got those options. Yucuis/That is what the options... If you change the Discount Program for water and wastewater .... to 75% of minimum charge, that is closer as you use more water to the existing Discount Program. Norton/You can't go much further than that .... do them all at 75%. Vanderhoef/But it is still so much less .... Nov/ Vanderhoef/What is wrong with using the same rates that we have got? .... Kubby/You are either going to have people pay a lot more of the larger user end or a lot less on the small use end ..... Nov/What about .... 60%? Kubby/ ....I would have it on the high end ....save.. the greater user because of their low income. Norton/ Thomberry/ Kubby/I would rather have the low income household .... water use is connected .... household size. I would rather have them have the advantage of the discount .... Vanderhoef/In both cases, you are talking about low income families .... Thomberry/It cost them more... took the option of having a larger family size .... They are paying more... for everything ....because of larger family size... they pay more for water. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 34 Kubby/Do we have people... all low income .... When they use less water, do they get a cut from their current rate? .... larger users, a slight increase or big increase in what they are paying? .... They should have an increase because they are using water and the cost of water is going up .... I like all 75%s. Nov/How about 60 or 65%. Vanderhoef/I am going 60% also because I don't see any reason that water rates should go down even for the lowest group. Thomberry/ ....it goes up for everybody. Vanderhoef/ Thomberry/ Norton/60% might work. Vanderhoef/Don, if we go with 60% at the 200 c.f., would that be almost identical to what they are presently paying. Yucuis/I will have to calculate it. Nov/At 200 c.f. with the current discount, it is $14.89. With a 60% discount of the new rates, it is $13.43, slightly less. Norton/How many 200 c.fi users do you have? Very few. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/Then the increments go up .... To have a decrease, I am not in favor of the 75%. I will go with you at 60 or 65%. Council/(All talking). Kubby/We don't know what the exact figures are ..... Nov/We direct them to give us the options .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session Kubby/ Yucuis/The Discount Program is by resolution. Norton/Then let's look at the 60% rate. Let's rate and see the numbers. Yucuis/So you want a 60% option on water and wastewater? Norton/They want to see a number where there is no decrease. Nov/ Vanderhoef/ Norton/Still bothers me when I look at the 800 c.f. user .... Nov/It is still a sizable difference .... current system the discount is $14.57. If we went to 60%, the discount is $16.03. So the discount does increase .... Norton/What you actually pay is $63.22 under one and it goes up .... I am getting them from last week's numbers... $63.97 to $64.25 ...with no discount. Here is a person on a discount... goes from $44 to $49.58 under the 50% .... Nov/It is $15 less than the person who didn't get the discount. Norton/...increase... big bite .... Nov/It is the negative that could be a problem .... Kubby/Then you reward those people who choose to not populate the earth with more children and who use less water. Nov/All right, that is enough .... Kubby/It is a different thing when you are talking about a lower income family with a lot of kids. That $5.00 there buys a lot of potatoes .... Thornberry/ page 35 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 36 Kubby/It doesn't mean that you don't also do conservation programs with a targeted group of people .... Nov/ Thomberry/Try 60% and see what happens. Yucuis/Get more options for you tomorrow. Norton/Good. Nov/Thank you, Don. Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 37 Council Agenda/Time 97-157 S1 1. Vanderhoef/I just thought...update from the County about SEATS .... There are a few more reports .... We have had some conversations with some County people .... They are working very diligently with the computer group in Wisconsin who assures them that they can produce all of the reports that we want and it may be another 2- 3 weeks .... Nov/There is a program in Wisconsin that does it? Vanderhoef/Ron had a friend .... consulting .... They have said they can come up with desired reports .... holding pattern until we get all of our reports .... First report ..... looks good .... very useful. 2. Kubby/I am hoping to see snow removal policy in our packet... current snow removal policy .... Atkins/ 3. Kubby/(IP6 11/14). We got this memo about police beat configuration downtown. I thought that one of the reason we gave more personnel money to the Police Department in our last budget was to do this kind of thing ....They make it sound like it is kind of this new idea. Atkins/It is a reconfiguration of the beats whereby the downtown actually is identified as a specific beat ..... officer assignments... We do all the crime analysis work .... statistical information .... let's call specific attention to downtown .... Kubby/Our budget increase .... in the immediate downtown area... Atkins/Smaller downtown area .... quite a bit smaller. 4. Thornberry/I was on a radio program with the University of Iowa radio station talking about the pedestrian plaza. They wanted to know what the shop owners and what people that were walking... how could they feel safer and how could some of the inappropriate behavior be curtailed ..... Radio people .... There were some University people ....older than student age... not just University students ....One of my suggestions ....perhaps putting cameras around here and there .... that look at intersections that are kind of iffy .... sign... You may be under surveillance .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 38 monitors in a number of different places .... If there is a problem .... causing problems that are inappropriate .... that should be reported .... Norton/I much prefer to see some kind of auxiliary police .... Thornberry/Nothing wrong with being videotaped .... Norton/They do some at traffic lights .... Thornberry/Those cameras could be used in a court of law .... Council/ Thornberry/If you are doing nothing wrong, what difference does the camera make? .... Lehman/I really think this conversation far more appropriate after we try what we are talking about trying .... Nov/ ....camera high enough so it cannot be damaged .... Thomberry/ Vanderhoef/I would like to inquired if conversation has continued on with the University about walking patrols further to the west of the downtown area? .... towards the river .... coordinating action .... Norton/ Vanderhoef/ Atkins/...extra people placed downtown .... As far as University walking patrol... that is on my list .... $. Nov/Both John Yapp and are on the mailing list for this Passenger Rail Coalition... Who else on the city council would like to keep informed on this? .... Norton/! will be happy to do that. Nov/Okay .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797 November 17, 1997 Council Work Session page 39 6. Nov/We have to have an executive session tomorrow after the formal meeting .... Karr/We don't need to discuss that tonight. We can adjourn. Nov/I am going to say read the information. This meeting is adjourned. Adjourned: 9:25 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 17, 1997 WSl11797