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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-12-01 TranscriptionDecember 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 1 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session 7:00 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry. Absent: Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Neumann, Sweeting, Moreno, Schmadeke, Davidson, Schoon. Tapes: 97-160, Side 2; 97- 161, all. Sales Tax Discussion 97-160 S2 Nov/ ....Sales Tax Discussion. Does anybody have any comments on various sales tax issues or do you want to go through a list? I have a couple of comments from Dee Vanderhoef. She suggests a ten year sunset... Baker/We suggested that two years ago. Nov/I would like to reach a conclusion? Thomberry/I would like a sunset, either ten years or Water Plant paid for, whichever occurs first. Norton/Let's don't complicate it. Nov/You have to put a specific number on it. Council/(All talking). Nov/ ....for the sake of discussion, let's say 10 years. I am just going to move through a list .... We have an option here of local needs that won't be met under our current revenues and Steve said that he had some information about property tax rollbacks .... In terms of current local needs, is there anything that we would not do because of current property tax rollbacks? Kubby/Didn't you say the difference between our old rollback and the new one is $200,000? Norton/Don't know where it is coming from yet? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session Atkins/It is sort of assigning what you are not going to do .... Kubby/But it is all General Fund money? Atkins/...It is all the $8.10 anyway. Baker/So when a sales tax discussion, you talk about property tax relief, don't worry about because the state is going to take care of that for everybody ....That shouldn't be a factor for how we package our local sales tax. Nov/We can say zero property tax relief. It has to be on the ballot somewhere. Baker/Zero. Terry will take care of you. Norton/ Nov/All right, does anybody have any discussion on the amount of property tax relief Lehman/I am not sure ! would go along with zero. Thomberry/I don't think I want to go along with zero either. Norton/I think we ought to talk about... property tax relief or water rate relief.... we need to discuss that a little bit further ..... You raised some questions about water tax relief, Naomi .... I think we ought to discuss that some more. Nov/! am going to put zero on property tax to move the discuss along. Does anybody have a problem with that? Thornberry/I have a problem with zero. Lehman/I think the property tax relief issue is probably going to be addressed more with items that we are going to... suggest that we fund... I have an idea... capital expenditures .... If we use proceeds to retire bonds. Norton/That is one way to do it. Kubby/Do you mean for projects that we are already scheduling? .... page 2 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 3 Lehman/Or current projects or future projects .... property tax bill, paying about 15% to retire bonds .... You would insure that the expenditures would go for capital improvements and not for outpaying services. Norton/ ....cultural library... could do all of that... retired that .... Kubby/ Baker/You are playing a shell game here. Nov/There is a debt service levy, it is part of property tax but it is not part of the General Fund. Kubby/You can't just switch people into Debt Service. Nov/There isn't really a valid way to say that we are going to use X% for capital improvements ..... You don't have to commit it to a particular building .... Baker/Capital improvements is not our problem though. Nov/ Baker/We have a source- We can fund the capital costs of projects that we want to do .... My feeling on some water or sewer rate relief is not for financial reasons. It is simply political reasons. You will not pass a sales tax unless some portion of this goes for water and sewer rate relief.... Kubby/ Thomberry/I think it does have something to do with finances .... Lehman/I don't think the electorate is going to pass a tax on themselves unless they see a benefit directly to them. And the benefit of placing part of this on the water plant will reflect directly through reduced or stabilized water bill. Baker/I don't disagree with that. What I am saying is you don't have to have a sales tax to pay your water bill. Lehman/You don't have to have subsidies to run buses .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 4 Baker/ ....It is an option. People have to have water and sewer. So you are going to have to have something on there that is an incentive for people to vote for an overall package. Lehman/I agree. Baker/But you are going to sell it not on cold hard dry facts and financial problems... political aspect. Thornberry/If those that come from out of town... work and buy in Iowa City .... they would not be affected by a property tax relief portion ....But when they shop of Iowa City, a portion of that goes for the relief of that tax ....for people who do live here... additional revenue .... Baker/Underlying assumption .... Are you thinking about providing a source of revenue for the future? .... Norton/We are talking about for future things .... Thornberry/It just makes living in Iowa City costs more ..... Baker/I support the idea of putting some portion of this to water and sewer rates .... Thornberry/What portion of the property tax relief would you like to see? Baker/Zero. Norton/Water relief, we ought to discuss that. Baker/ Lehman/I really think we should kick around those things that we are interested in .... three people who are not here who are probably going to be involved in the decision, if there is one, to put it on the ballot ..... options should be aired. As far as coming to a conclusion, we are not going to be able to do that. The areas of interest is something we should talk about ..... Thornberry/ ....I think that putting down a zero for property tax is not the way to go. Lehman/I agree. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 5 Thornberry/Put down property tax being one. What percentage, we don't know at this point. Norton/Let's discuss the merits of property tax relief versus water rate relief. Thornberry/We are coming to water... next if you want to. I think that property tax needs to be one of the things that~ Norton/Does property tax relief benefit renters, for example? Not necessarily, right. Nov/Renters do pay property tax. Kubby/Rents are not going to go down because of property tax relief. .... Lehman/ Thornberry/They may stabilize. Lehman/Right now there is 5, 6, or 8% vacancy .... changes in property tax would definitely affect rents. Kubby/ Norton/ Thornberry/ Kubby/There has been an increase in vacancy rate but it is not where at 8%. Lehman/I think it is at least 5%. Norton/My question- In principle it won't necessarily be passed on to renters .... Thornberry/No, ! think it would, Dee .... It would in the fact... if property taxes continue to go up, they are going to pay that portion of the increase. Lehman/It wouldn't be immediate though. Thomberry/If they stabilize, then the rents may stabilize. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 6 Nov/The assessments go up and the apartment buildings are taxed at the commercial rate, 100%... more likely to go up than the residential rate. Council/(All talking). Baker/ Kubby/...if you did property tax relief and water and/or sewer rate relief, that you don't need to do all of those things. Thornberry/Perhaps not sewer but I can see water and property tax. Norton/ Lehman/There is a good reason why you don't do sewer. The University is our largest customer by far. They pay no property tax. They do pay a sewer bill rate. If you reduce the sewer rate, the University then is not paying their fair share ....They use no water. Nov/Let's not say no water... they have their own system. Thomberry/Two out of the three I would be willing to look at .... Norton/I didn't know if property was a necessary addition to water rate relief. I thought water rate relief might catch a wide variety. Nov/There will be arguments on both sides of any issue that you want to put in here .... Kubby/Some communities do things that benefit everybody who pays for tax .... just a source of revenue .... I would prefer to have people pay the true cost of water and sewer because they are natural resources and people should know what the real direct costs are .... Norton/Does that come down to not using any for water rate reduction? .... Kubby/We had 4% increases last time in the functional increase. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 7 Thornberry/I am not going to beat a dead horse tonight. There are going to be three other people that are going to make the decision before it goes on the ballot. This will come up again. Baker/So why are even having this conversation tonight, then? Thornberry/I don't know. Nov/We don't have to have it if you don't want to but we did say we wanted to have it. Kubby/One thing I think we should focus on .... I like testing the waters on having the community kind of fine tune what it is the money would be used for by putting a sample compliment of categories and let the community say .... Nov/I think the neighborhood associations and people like that would be very interested ..... Kubby/...gain community support... get some feedback .... make adjustments. Norton/Assuming that we can explain it in terms of understandable .... I want to talk... more .... premature to do much. To talk about capital versus operating .... Can we stay all to capital? .... Nov/We can do it either way .... put in this very generic categories such as community betterment ....use it for whatever operating costs you want to use it for each year .... Kubby/I think it is unrealistic to think there will be zero operating .... Thornberry/ Kubby/ Norton/ Nov/If you are going to put in a new water plant, you are going to maintain all the grounds around it .... bike path... wetlands... has to be maintained .... Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session Thornberry/ Nov/ Norton/I made a list of operating... Mercer Park personnel, library/community center .... policing aspect... central business district maintenance, Senior Center .... housing... Parks and Rec personnel... Sturgis Ferry... A lot of operating things that we are going to be hard pressed to cover within our present budget .... Thornberry/I would like to ask... Are the trails maintained in the winter? Davidson/(Can't hear) some are. Kubby/I supposed the ones that are used .... Norton/I am going to move to the shell game. Aren't there some places where we can invest some of the resources from the sales tax... in capital things that would free up... switchable .... free up the money for another... possible in a few places .... ? Baker/You are freeing up your capacity to spend more money on capital projects ..... Norton/ Atkins/The tax rate is about $2.00 .... Baker/So if you use sales tax for capital projects, all you have done is lower that capital budget line... Atkins/You have lowered your property tax, too because you have lowered the rate .... Lehman/There are ways that you could have a certain amount of flexibility in using funds to retire debt .... Could free up money .... by retiring debt with sales tax proceeds rather than revenue from operations. Baker/Community betterment .... sub category called property tax relief. Lehman/How does that relate to community betterment? Nov/It doesn't. page 8 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 9 Baker/You are saying we need to lower property taxes to make us a better community .... Kubby/The law says we have to have property tax relief even if it is zero... Thornberry/It has to be a separate line item .... Baker/ ....I forgot you have to spell it out. Nov/But you can use this kind of thing for capital expenses .... redo the downtown .... or we could use it to maintain the current playground equipment ..... Norton/Can you explain... schools? Nov/This issue came up in Des Moines... discussed at School Board level here... There is a discussion .... if it is going to be on the ballot, maybe we should ask for part of it to be for schools .... Baker/ ....surcharge we pay to the schools now. Nov/I just wanted to let you know it is being discussed. Norton/ Nov/Income surcharge .... Baker/ Nov/There are talking about cutting their budget and I understand this may come up. Karr/At my last state meeting, there is more than one school district interested in that and there is already language being proposed at the state level to incorporate school district funding straight into the sales tax in the future. Norton/Mandatory? Karr/Correct. Baker/If you fool around with this thing too long... that law will pass .... they will change the formula for redistribution and we will lose on that in the long run. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 10 Nov/...Do we want to coordinate with Cedar Rapids? I asked Steve to call .... We don't know exactly what they are planning... They are planning to put it on the ballot in the spring. Thornberry/I think it ought to be the same time as Cedar Rapids. Norton/...using... for ... new things .... Nov/That is what they have been discussing ..... talking at one point about doing a project ....another project... They hadn't yet designated these projects ....doing some kind of a list ....They were going to ....say that project #1 will be ....money from first year's income. The second year there will be another project ....They were talking about capital projects .... Norton/That is why it gets tortuous. You stick yourself with operating expenses .... We have to put it both ways...capital... operating .... Other wise you will have facilities around that you can't do anything with .... Can somebody explain to me... an e- mail... somebody pointed out .... conceivably for the city to not actually net anything from those in the county but outside the city given the distribution formula ..... population and percent of sales and the taxes they get .... The formula suggests that people who live outside of the city but inside the county- Nov/They would still get a portion of it. The tax is a county tax. The county takes in the pot of level from the state level and they distribute it to each community in the county according the formulas. If there is some community that doesn't have a retail store, they still get some of that money. Lehman/That is if the county passes it. If the county does not pass it- If Iowa City, Coralville, Hills and North Liberty, as a unit, passed it and the county defeated it, none of it would go to the county. Norton/But right now, if it passes in the county as a county wide vote- For example, any incorporated areas that have something like 2% of the taxable sales, they would get 25% of the sales tax receipt. Nov/Because it is based on population .... those people did help pay the tax. Lehman/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 11 Nov/They are spending money here. These are people who pay the tax. Norton/But do we net? Nov/I am not going to worry about that right now. Kubby/ Norton/ Baker/ Norton/! am still for it. I would take some water or property, whatever works better. Kubby/There are a couple of things... housing and human services .... Nov/Set up a land trust or some sort. Baker/Sorts of things you could do .....You got to set aside a certain percentage for housing. Norton/Downpayment assistance. Nov/I would not put it into any as specific as downpayment or it must be a land trust. Housing as a generic term would work. Kubby/Housing and human services. Norton/ Nov/All those kinds of things could be put into a community enhancement betterment, etc. This is where they listed housing in Ames. Kubby/I would rather be more explicit so there is always money going into housing and human services .... Baker/To sell the tax, you have to build a constituency. You also have to ....diminish your opposition as well as build a constituency. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 12 Kubby/ Norton/We are trying to find out ways to make it less onerous. Nov/People are asking for police policing... public safety... Norton/I distinguished community betterment from housing and human services for political reasons and I think from public health and safety .... Nov/There were five people who wanted public safety listed. Housing and human services were listed by only three as a separate category. Baker/Probably only two after January 1. Nov/That is certainly possible. Kubby/I think it should go out there .... Norton/How does anybody connect this to the library cultural center issues? Lehman/I think certainly that if it is on the ballot and promoted the way the Library Board would like to promote it and if the means to pay for it is available, chances of that passes are certainly better than if we don't have a means to pay for it other than the bond levy. Norton/They are kind of a paired deal ....You got to almost do this one for the other one to look viable. Thornberry/Will people look at this as something that they can support to vote for it or will they look at things they don't like to vote against it? Nov/ Kubby/...memo from Dee and Larry .... I like having the four categories ....four explicit things... specific examples .... they are a more well rounded .... Norton/Also explains the things you are going to miss... not be able to do .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 13 Baker/ .... water and sewer rate... clear category .... increase the general community betterment to include public health and safety and keep a separate category for housing and human services .... Kubby/ Nov/Threes are easy to remember. Norton/ .... going to have to be pretty manageable to explain .... discuss it with the neighborhood council .... associations ....Have something like this with examples .... Nov/I hear there may be four people who do want to take the issue out to neighborhood council or something similar. Kubby/ ....that is a limited number... Nov/Public heatings .... not get as active a response... Norton/Why not go to the neighborhood associations .... ? Baker/Chamber could do something. There are all sorts of avenues .... Kubby/I would like us to see us put out to the community property tax relief, sewer rate relief, public health and safety, community betterment and housing and human services without percentages and get some feedback... with some examples of each of those things .... and see what people think. Norton/I think we could get started that way. Kubby/It should change after public input. Nov/Without percents? Does anyone want to involve regional projects such as a county library? Baker/No. Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 14 Kubby/I think that is such a vague discussion to talk about .... some kind of transportation issue .... Library thing was really never explored. Lehman/At this point... encourage... people... make concerns known to us. Until we get our other three folks, I hate to see us take too much of a direction .... Thornberry/ ....small percentage .... Norton/We have got to make pretty heavy decisions... good judgment .... Kubby/ ....part of democracy .... Thomberry/ Kubby/You can never know what the silent majority, which is always the majority, is thinking .... try to do outreach to groups of people who are not being involved .... go into neighborhood centers. Norton/We have got to keep it fairly straight forward .....budget details... very difficult issues. Nov/Let's see us summarize .... Water rates seem to have a majority of folks? Norton/I do but I am... willing .... Baker/ A majority is not here is irrelevant. Property tax, put it out for discussion. Norton/Some kind of tax relief. Nov/Dee Vanderhoeftold me she wants something to go to water rates also. So I think there are four. Lehman/The whole thing really is going to be up in the air ....fine to keep all the balls flying until we get some more- Thornberry/It is not to early to start putting things out there. Kubby/I think we need to direct staff to help us formulate a plan for getting a broader segment of community input .... we need to do if fairly soon. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session Baker/Accelerate public input process .... public education .... Kubby/ Nov/This is something that has to be done on a quarterly basis ....If.. July 1... have to have an election in May...40 days notice .... Baker/It is impossible to have a February election .... Nov/May might be possible ..... If it were April or May, you can have it start July 1. Thornberry/I would really like to coincide with Cedar Rapids. Baker/Encourage them to go in May .... Nov/...time to look at what they are doing .... Kubby/ ....convince them to do it in May .... Nov/I would say April or May ..... Thornberry/ Nov/ Lehman/Getting the word out is important .... Thomberry/ Council/(All talking). Atkins/We did in October '87 .... Cedar Rapids... I don't think they have ever done it .... Karr/I think they have tried unsuccessfully once .... small towns in Linn County who still have it...county wide election .... A couple of real small ones. Norton/Cedar Rapids has had some kind of citizens group spearheading their effort .... to get the word out. I don't know whether we need to consider that. page 15 Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 16 Thomberry/ Nov/Is there anything else on sales tax? Lehman/(All talking). Atkins/Did I hear you say you would like some idea on community information (can't hear). Lehman/I think that is right. Nov/Yeah, I think I hear people would like to at least consider that. Atkins/We will draft something for you and bring it back. Norton/We have the categories outlined, yeah. Nov/How do we get the word out on those categories kind of thing? Norton/There are six categories. We don't know which ones. Baker/Public input can create more categories. Kubby/What is the sixth one? Norton/There are five. Nov/Almost all the things that were on the list are still on the list. I didn't hear anybody eliminate any of them. There weren't always things that had four people. They are still here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 17 Refuse Collection/Recycling For Multi-Family Housin~ units and Downtown Properties 97-160 S2 Nov/Do wc have any questions for Brad and his memo? Thornberry/I talked to John Ockenfels about this. There were a number of problems in recycling... Going back to our memos, Brad, just separating out fiber-cardboard and paper. It is called fiber. Nov/Shirts and blue jeans are fiber also. Thomberry/That is what John Ockenfels calls fiber is paper and cardboard .... He said that would probably be the only way that you could start is to just separate out... paper and cardboard ...... Brad Neumann/Are you referring to the multi-family? Thornberry/Yes and businesses. I want to do both. Norton/Tell me how you are going to proceed? .... Fiber? Neumann/I agree with John, that is the way to start. I think the majority of the matedhal, the waste coming out of these apartments and the commercial businesses .... is paper, cardboard, fiber. We did a pilot program... apartments... nine dumpsters specifically for paper ....material w got was very good .....volume wasn't there of what we were expected .... apartments... 50% of waste-stream is paper and cardboard .... Good area to target .... got some value .... Norton/...students or the owners, what is in it for them? Neumann/ .... Show the owners .... If we could get 50% of their waste-stream re-routed in a certain way, they could change their collection frequency for garbage which would save them money and re-invest savings into recycling .... We also went as far as doing some condos .... curbside containers. That worked out very well ..... same as single family. We also put out roll-offs in some larger apartment complexes... more family oriented .... In pilot, tried to make it as simple as possible .....for the owners, it was half the waste-stream ....also we collected in in dumpsters .... Kubby/All that works for us, too .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 18 Norton/I don't understand, if it is financially advantageous to an apartment owner to recycle... fiber, why don't they do it? They are businessmen. Thomberry/Because it is not available, Dee. Neumann/It is available. After our pilot, we had a complex that actually went out for bid to continue this paper collection ..... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-161 SIDE 1 Lehman/And if we tell you that we do think this is a great idea and that we really need to do it and that in fact, we are going to mandate that we do it, you then could look at possibilities and variations on how this could be done. Neumann/There are a lot of different ways to do it. Lehman/I don't think we can design the process. We certainly can set the policy ..... eventually we are going to require it .... I think that we do need it .... Norton/ Lehman/...once we tell people that we are eventually going to require it .... first step .... Kubby/Especially if we say we want to do this within 18 months... 24 months .... going to have to figure all of this out. It might take this long .... Lehman/For example, in commercial, I have no idea what percentages in businesses recycle their fiber .... I think the majority of the people don't .... Norton/...Are there things we need to do in terms of modifying ordinances or regulations... incentives to help people move in this direction? Neumann/We haven't done any of those .... that would be part of the process .... We did the pilot... came up with eight different concerns they had... to get that done .... some of it were good suggestions. Some of the biggest problems they had were some of the older units and dwellings. They just don't have the space .... We had trouble finding space for one item .... Thornberry/Would you know if they have a four yard dumpster? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 19 Neumann/It varies ..... Thomberry/I had a six yard ..... I brought in a two yard just for cardboard .... I am filling that two yard up three times a week ..... The two yard works okay for the cardboard picked up three times a week. I have my six yard picked up six times a week .... Lehman/I don't know if there are going to be financial incentives. I don't believe that we can recycle and save money .... Thornberry/Instead of being charged to take his truck to the landfill, you go down to City Carton and they pay you ..... Kubby/Maybe there is a long term payoff.... Norton/...If you went down these eight things, how many can you do without further- Are you going to come back to us for further authorization? ..... Neumann/A lot of these would have to go through Planning and Zoning .... parking things .... As far as the fines... Norton/We have all agreed we have to move on this and we have got to move on commercial. Lehman/At the same time. Neumann/The commercial one is a whole other set of circumstances. Nov/...Is there anyone here who does not want to say mandatory recycling at multi- family buildings? Norton/Are we considering that? Lehman/We eventually have to have it mandated. Nov/I think we have to. Neumann/We can design a program and present that and suggest some of the changes to P/Z and things like that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 20 Thomberry/Because of the fencing and all of the other issues... phasing in. It is going to take some time. Neumann/The haulers are going to need some time to invest in some equipment ..... Norton/And without mandatory you can't guarantee a stream? Neumann/Yes. That is the problem, that is why it is not happening now. Lehman/ Kubby/If we are going to mandate multi-family, why aren't we going to mandate businesses? Nov/We haven't decided that one yet. Norton/ Neumann/This is just downtown right here. Thornberry/I am talking all private haulers in town. Kubby/ Nov/I think they are doing this for multi-family, they are going to have that truck out anyway. Why couldn't they do it for commercial? Neumann/They could. They offer the service now .... It is available now. Council/(All talking). Neumann/We will go ahead and design something for you and bring that back. Downtown commercial has it own set of problems .... found, in six block area in the downtown, there is about 80 dumpsters sitting in those alleys .... breakdown here. 59 are garbage, 11 are cardboard...grease dumpsters, there are about 10 of those .... Concerns .... #1 is collection o the dumpsters... daily basis .... clean up some of the alleys, share dumpsters for garbage ..... lessen the number of garbage dumpsters .... Problem is if a majority of them are being collected daily, I don't know how we can share ..... A lot of them are restaurants ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 21 Lehman/Couldn't some businesses share dumpsters when it comes to cardboard or whatever? Neumann/They could ..... how are we going to divvy up the costs? ..... If they have to walk any further than their garbage dumpster, that is a problem... We don't have those incentives. Lehman/That is not our problem. If we get to the point where we mandate that we recycle fiber, then it becomes the problem of the business to decide .... Within reason, if we set up guidelines that says we are going to require this, it becomes a deal between the generators of the waste and the haulers. Kubby/Make it possible meet our parking requirements and screening requirements ..... We have to make some changes. Thornberry/I still think it needs to be done .... Council/(All talking). Norton/What is the biggest problem? Neumann/The mess. The alleys are full of dumpsters. Norton/Would you like to reduce the total number of dumpsters? Neumann/That originally was the thought, yes and then we could provide more recycling for cardboard and paper dumpsters rather than garbage. Nov/ Thornberry/It is going to be tough to get someone to walk half a block with their cardboard. Neumann/They don't want to walk any further than their backdoor where their dumpsters sit. Nov/What would happen if we did mandate separation of paper? How would it work? Thornberry/The haulers .... they will go back to that business... you cannot put your cardboard in with the garbage .... They will take care of that problem. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 22 Nov/ Thornberry/ Neumann/As long as you scrape the food out. Thornberry/ Nov/ Norton/Go ahead, tell us what you need for downtown. Neumann/What I am hearing is we are talking more of a landfill ban on certain items. It is hard to just mandate commercial business .... Nov/I think that is where we are heading. Neumann/Linn County is talking about it. Lehman/We are the landfill authorities for Johnson County. If we institute a ban or regulation on the percentage of fiber to be dumped, that would apply to everybody using our landfill ..... I think that is a direction we are going to end up. Nov/You are going to end up with a surcharge rather than a ban? Thornberry/For those that come from outside Iowa City... that use our landfill, we can't tell them you have got to recycle ....you can dump it here but it is going to cost you more. Kubby/I think it is a better policy to ban .... Council/(All talking). Nov/I think you need a definite date. I think you need to say January 1, 1999 or a very specific date... Lehman/Brad, how much time is it going to take us to work this out? .... It might take two years ..... I would rather see you get through part way and come back to us and give us an idea .... We would like to see it as soon as we can .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 23 Nov/I think... you have to say it is going to be feasible within one year ....It doesn't need to take the whole year just to plan it. Thomberry/You need a building season anyway .... increase trash enclosures .... Kubby/ Nov/The haulers will do the educating .... Kubby/ .....this will really be a phenomenal thing to ban fiber from the landfill ....I think we need to get people time to adjust .... Council/(All talking). Norton/What did you decide with a rough deadline that you might want to implement the mandatory thing with respect to multi-family? July 1 ? Neumann/I would give them at least a year to two years. Norton/Let's talk January 1, a year from now. Neumann/Depending on how far you want to go. If it is just fiber- Lehman/Start with that. Kubby/ .... Think about P/Z Commission and staff's work plan. It has already been set for the next year .... I don't want to do it piece mill .... Ifa product gets banned at a certain date, then everybody is ready for it .... Norton/No fiber by the turn of the century. Nov/I think we have to start before then. Thornberry/Yes we do. Nov/I think multi-family buildings can start before then ....haulers can be ready before then .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 24 Neumann/I think as soon as you mandate it, they can start investing money in equipment .... Kubby/We can pass an ordinance that has a starting date .... Neumann/The owners and managers are going to need time to gear up for the program .... to work with the hauler .... make sure rents cover the costs .... Nov/...keep August 1 date?... When do leases start? Neumann/ Lehman/How long would it take you, knowing the direction that we would like to go... to give us a preliminary plan about how soon you think this could be done? ..... Neumann/ .... Are you talking about getting something through P/Z and everything else? Lehman/You tell us the quickest we can get this through P/Z and implement this ..... Neumann/I will have to get back to you on that one. Lehman/ Norton/You are talking both multi-family and commercial? Lehman/Both. Nov/I think it is acceptable to say we are going to do this one first and that one second .... Kubby/ ....make sure that our curbside residential also has mixed paper. So that our curbside customers has an option. We don't ban from the landfill and not give our people an option .... Nov/ Kubby/Mixed .... Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 25 Neumann/You can mix paper. They will charge to separate ..... high grade paper ....Unless he is getting a large volume, that cost will come down ....They have already got the sort line in ..... Norton/Send the general word that by 2000 we are going to ban fiber in the landfill and start figuring it out. Neumann/So you want a timeline on how quick we can pass the ordinance or how soon you want to start the programs? Nov/How about if we have a plan in place? Neumann/I will check into that and I will get back to Steve. Nov/If we have a plan in place, we can then say the plan will be implemented six months from whatever. Kubby/ Atkins/The important thing that I need to hear you say is that we have a goal and the goal is we are going to ban this from the landfill and we will build a program to accomplish that policy. Okay. I want the policy position and the policy position is we are going to ban. Lehman/If we ban fiber from the landfill and a hauler shows up with a few cardboard boxes in his load, can he not unload? .... Essentially it should be banned ..... Thornberry/ Atkins/Don't tell us to ban it and then start backing off. We won't get anywhere with that ..... Council/(All talking). Norton/Are other landfills contemplating or implementing a ban on fiber? Neumann/Jones County already banned a lot ofrecyclable items including paper and cardboard ....Blue Stem is discussing a ban on cardboard and I think that will happen ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 26 Norton/Then we are not being weird. Nov/Before we leave .... Was there ever a decision on the four unit buildings being city or private haulers? Thornberry/I was thinking we were talking about an option. Nov/What are the options for city versus private haulers in a four-unit apartment building? Chuck Schmadeke/We have some four-unit apartment buildings that have five bedrooms, four bedrooms .... We allow private haulers to pick those up ..... Thornberry/So it is an option on the four-unit? Atkins/I think it is important for you to understand this option is pretty much at Chuck's discretion. The ordinance we interpreted allowed the Public Work's Director to make reasonable rules and I think Chuck has looked at each of these units in a sense that this is a four-unit, it has got 20 bedrooms ....He has chosen to do it that way. Schmadeke/The problem is we don't offer recycle collection. Thomberry/We will .... Nov/Are there any other questions on solid waste issues? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 27 Water Facility Plan 97-161 S1 Nov/We are on the Water Plant .... I assume everybody read this nice book and do we have any questions? Schmadeke/What we have prepared for you in the site plan for development of the open space at the Water Plant site. This work is not included in the site plan that we hope to let as a contract this spring which is for the roads and part of the treatment facilities and water mains and electrical service and those types of facilities. This plan would be developed later and be implemented for the open space .... What we attempted to do here is to provide an open space facility that was safe for people that work at the Water Plant site, safe for the users of the facility, passive recreational that has educational enhancement to it as an environmental resource for those who visit the site and is low maintenance... for 230 acres on that site .... Thornberry/...got to the end... safety and security of the facility and your conclusions .... I decided that I really did agree with your conclusions... got to be secure .... wild and back to nature .... Were there trees there before? Schmadeke/We will be losing quite a few trees on the site. Thornberry/Why are we planting trees in a wetland when they will just die anyway? Lehman/Some trees don't. You get wetland trees ..... Kubby/The whole place is not a wetland. Lehman/The biggest thing we are concerned about is protecting that site. Norton/What does this entail about fencing? .... Is it secured or open? Schmadeke/We will have fencing at the front gate to get to the Water Plant ..... That is the only fencing. Norton/What about from the Butler Bridge, if you wanted to go down to the river? Schmadeke/...that would be open ..... Norton/Does that mean people could go down and fish in the pond that we are dragging water out of?. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session Lehman/Ride their bikes ...... Schmadeke/You wouldn't be able to drive through the park. Norton/Does that trail connect under the 1-80 bridge? Other property owners? ..... Thornberry/Over to the damn .... Norton/ Thornberry/I can see the lack of security until something happens where it needs to be a lot more secure .... terrorism and other acts .... location is a good location. Lehman/The plant itself will be fenced, is that not true? Schmadeke/Just the opening, the road to the plant. Thornberry/...the gate will never be locked probably. Schmadeke/Yeah, we will probably lock the gate at night. Thornberry/ Schmadeke/ Lehman/That alone takes care of a lot of safety issues ..... Nov/There will be no parking at all? Schmadeke/Plant parking is all. Norton/ Kubby/Unless some people are talking about having some parking and restroom stations for the trail .... Nov/As part of being the trail head ....also a group of school children who come to see the wetlands ..... Schmadeke/They can come through the gate during working hours. page 28 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 29 Nov/You have to allow a little parking. Thomberry/ Nov/So you are not talking about a commuter parking lot. Norton/...commuter parking? Lehman/Why has that been given up? .... Schmadeke/Vehicle access, the run-off from the parking lot .... spill .... Kubby/Picture of the Water Plant design? .... Schmadeke/The picture. Kubby/It looks real industrial to me. Nov/It sure does. Kubby/It looks like big tanks .....I would like our Water Plant to look more (can't hear). Norton/What are you going to do? You got to have tanks. Thornberry/It is an industrial facility. Kubby/It doesn't have to look industrial .... Norton/I thought it was kind of attractive. Nov/ Lehman/I think we need to be a little care in design of that facility...doesn't appear too- Thornberry/ Kubby/You can look non-industrial and be simple. Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 30 Lehman/Has this building been designed? All of it? Kubby/The exterior. Where were we? Atkins/We can bring it back to you .... There are practical limitations within the building itself. The exterior treatment, I assume that is wide open. Nov/What are the exterior materials? .... Atkins/It is not going to be yellow? .... Kubby/I think we need some other discussion. Atkins/Why don't we bring some elevations back to you. Norton/Yeah, let's take a look at it. Council/(All talking). Schmadeke/A roof of that size, it almost has to be a flat roof.... Norton/ Kubby/I really like the ideas a couple people had about considering renewable energy sources... passive solar design .... using recycled materials in the construction of it. Thornberry/That adds cost ..... Lehman/I also noticed that we were asking the river bank not be tip-rapped ..... Nov/That was one of the ideas. Lehman/I was curious as to why we wouldn't want the bank to be rip-rapped? Kubby/ .....erosion control but rip-rap is only one method ....It is ugly .....Some people suggested having a boat ramp down there. Nov/Are we going to have a boat ramp? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session Council/(All talking). Kubby/Extra pollution ..... Norton/Is there a boat launching up there? Schmadeke/We wouldn't want that. Nov/City Park does have one. Is it possible to put another boat ramp on the peninsula? ..... Lehman/We got a boat ramp at City Park. Nov/Dee Vanderhoefwas telling me the one at City Park needs some help. Lehman/It is brand new ..... Nov/ ....I told her I would ask my question ..... Atkins/I think you want to minimize any kind of boat ramp on the peninsula ..... Nov/So we don't want one at the peninsula or Water Plant? Atkins/You want to discourage as much traffic as you can. Thornberry/ Lehman/You can launch... Coralville .... City Park... plenty of accesses to the river .... Council/(All talking). Norton/Who is going to supervise this Plant, the whole area? Schmadeke/Ed Moreno. Norton/ Lehman/How much of the grounds- How much assistance will Parks and Rec have of this? .... page 31 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 32 Atkins/Clearly, you are going to have overlapping crews. Remember the primary use of the site is the Water Plant ..... The responsibility is fixed with Ed. Kubby/In terms of maintenance and programs. Nov/Another thing on the list was meeting rooms. Is this building going to have meeting rooms? Schmadeke/Yes. Lehman/Why? You are talking about public meeting rooms, are you not? Atkins/Part of this whole process is education ..... Kubby/ Lehman/Location is certainly not the best for nighttime use for public meetings. Atkins/ ....meeting .... Thornberry/Seating for how many? Carol Sweeting/About 100. Schmadeke/About 100, I think. Norton/ Sweeting/(Can't hear). There was seating for 100 if both sides of the room were open. Atkins/ .....pretty good room .....Our community has endless appetite for community space. Kubby/ Norton/ ....It is not exactly the world's handiest. Atkins/I think you are going to be very pleasantly surprised if we open this up for those kinds of public uses ..... Very attractive setting ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 33 Lehman/Entire cost of the facility is going to be paid for by the rate payers of the water service? Atkins/Yes. Kubby/Unless we have a sales tax. Lehman/We might .... public space .... Atkins/I just think it is important for you to know there is public space inside ....water education .... Kubby/ Lehman/I don't know that rate payers would be real happy building a public facility... and paying for it with water rates ..... Thornberry/ Lehman/ Norton/Is there any passive solar in this building? Schmadeke/Those windows .... south side. Norton/ Schmadeke/ Norton/There is no conversion of anything to electricity or something like that. Thornberry/ Kubby/Do we have any pictures of the final location of the lagoon? ..... Schmadeke/No, we do have that and I will get you a copy of that. Lehman/...matter of engineering .... Norton/We had some arguments about the 600 foot circles .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 34 Thomberry/How tall is this building? Ed Moreno/Three story building .... Atkins/Three story building, estimated. Kubby/We are going to see the design again. By talking about it, we are not approving this exterior. Atkins/We want you to do tonight is do you like the site plan staff prepared and the kinds of things you would like to introduce on the site .... The actual water plant facility itself, we will bring that back to you so you can comment on that. Norton/Where are the access roads? ..... Will there be another access down closer to Butler Bridge? Schmadeke/We looked at putting a small parking lot .... (refers to plan). The existing driveway that is there now that goes back to those two houses. Norton/What about the entrance to the Butler House? Atkins/Right now, the Butler House as a project is being mothballed ..... Anything that you would take beyond that, renovation .... You are certainly going to want to buy public access to it .... Third access .... destination would be the Butler House. Norton/ Lehman/We were out to the Butler House .... require... earth moving ....steep ..... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-162 SIDE 2 Lehman/Removing a lot of trees ..... Norton/I am thinking of the entrance to the plant itself.... Nov/Is it possible to do an internal access... to the Butler House? Kubby/That would be a road for a long ways. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 35 Nov/Terrain were easier to handle .... Norton/Does this entail, at all, the widening of Dubuque Street? Lehman/No. Atkins/Remember, we are not going to generate a lot of traffic .... I think that entrance road ....going to have to be opened up... clear line of site ....some lighting at that intersection .... Schmadeke/There is pretty good site distance there. Atkins/ Council/(Looks to Plan). Atkins/The Butler House sits up on a hill. Lehman/That Butler House is another story. Atkins/Right now you have an obligation to mothball it .... Big ticket item .... Sarah is preparing a memorandum of understanding between the State Historic Preservation folks, the Army Corps of Engineers ..... it does obligate us to mothball that. Kubby/In terms of archeological sites... are those included when you talk about historic sites on here? Schmadeke/The only archeological site is around the Butler House itself. .... Lehman/...We looked at that building .... It would appear to me, just restoring the building would be a tremendous expense .... providing access and parking... Whole project has got to be very expensive. Atkins/It is. Lehman/ ....question .....using city money for that .... Atkins/The resource itself has to be preserved ....mothbailing it ....not tearing it down. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 36 Norton/I have a couple of more questions about the site plan. What is the deal on this protective water lake? .... Schmadeke/Just a storm water detention basin basically that will be south of the plant .... 60 acres around the interchange that drains down across this property into the quarry and we are going to intercept that .... Nov/ Lehman/ Norton/That is to protect from drainage coming from the highway? Where will that discharge? In the same place? ..... Schmadeke/The sediments will settle out in the dentition basin and it will drain down to the pond. Norton/With respect to the quarry pit... actually filled and then replanted? .... Schmadeke/That small pit north of the quarry... that will become the wetland .... Norton/How will those banks be stabilized? Schmadeke/Just sloped back at a 4:1 ..... Lehman/Why are we filling that one pond? Schmadeke/We have to build some wetlands for replacement ..... Kubby/ .... Percentage of the different water sources ..... 50% river water but that included the pit water and the alluvial water, is that correct? Schmadeke/Right. Kubby/ Schmadeke/It is about 60% .... River is 3.8 million; sandpit is 1.2 and the rest 7.4 is alluvial water from both plant site and the peninsula. Lehman/When we are at a lower usage... most of that from non-river sources? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 37 Schmadeke/Right, the alluvial. Lehman/So only during peak periods... river itself?. Schmadeke/That's right ..... 3.8 million is straight out of the river. Thornberry/I thought you said there was enough water out of that one pond to last us for about six months. Schmadeke/60 days .... Thornberry/...sand really purifies .... Norton/Silurian and Jordan, will you ever stop using them at all at some point? .... Schmadeke/They will always be part .... least costly to treat. Thomberry/ Kubby/There is a sentence in here that says locate a skating park near outdoor pond .... What is zamboni? Thornberry/A zamboni scrapes- It is the little thing that you drive- Atkins/ Thomberry/It is a big machine...shaves the ice ..... Nov/I don't think we are going to do any skating ponds out here, are we? ..... Council/(All talking). Kubby/Okay, so you are going to come back to us with the exterior and the placement of the lagoon? Schmadeke/Right. Nov/ ....keep the lagoons in a more natural shape... is that going to happen? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 38 Schmadeke/No, that was cost prohibitive. Lehman/ Schmadeke/ Kubby/It would be nice to see a map that has where the Water Plant is, where the roads are going to go, where the trails eventually will be, where the lagoons are going to be .....grading will happen... trees will come down, where the trees will be going up. Atkins/ ....We will bring that with us when we bring the elevations. Lehman/Just put a blank where the zamboni would have been. Council/(All talking). Nov/... question about swans... Dee Vanderhoef.... Would it help to have swans in the water retention basin near the airport? .... geese problem. Thornberry/It is not so much the geese, it is the black birds. Council/ Nov/Would trumpeter swans near the airport be of any use? Atkins/I don't know. I will ask that question. Kubby/Refer it to the committee. Thornberry/ Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session page 39 Council Agenda/Time 97-161 S2 1. Nov/I have a letter from Jean Lloyd Jones asking us to consider the Essentuky Sister City question and it comes with a resolution proposal. I am going to put it in the packet ..... please think about whether or not we want to do this. Thornberry/It is a resort city in southern Russia and they are know for their mineral waters .... spas ..... Kubby/I assume the information will say what our obligations. Nov/I don't have that yet. Kubby/Before we vote on a resolution, we need to understand what sister city-ship means. 2. Karr/First one is the memo regarding bylaws from the Rules Committee. Your conflict of interest and that was included in your last packet. Is everything a go on that? Was there any questions? .... Nov/Sounds good. Norton/ Still doesn't seem to me to make it clear .... It isn't quite clear to me that when the issue of conflict of interest comes up, whether it by the person who thinks they have it or by somebody else who thinks somebody else has it .... Seems to me it could be generated by anybody, not necessarily the person who thinks they have but they think one of their colleagues has. I think they both have to be able to go to the City Attorney. Karr/ ....You want to be sure that it is explained that either party can initiate it. Norton/Yes, that anybody on the commission or group can initiate a concern. Kubby/Or staff. Norton/Or staff, right. Karr/We can work with that. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197 December 1, 1997 Council Work Session Nov/Bottomline conclusion is the City Attorney's ruling is binding .... Karr/He wants it just as important that anyone can initiate a binding conclusion. Kubby/ ....appearance of a conflict... I can choose to abstain .... Karr/ Nov/We were more concerned with the bylaws of city boards and commission .... ought to be clear in the bylaws of each of them. 3. Karr/... 1998 .... proposed meeting schedule. I would like to firm that up for January... Organizational meeting and budget... January 5, 1:00 to 9:00 ..... Thornberry/1:00 to 5:00 and 6:00 to 9:00. Karr/Correct... dinner break in there ....Last part of January ....longer sessions and fewer of them ....firm up the schedule with that in mind ....We will still leave on the 5th ....10th, 8:00 to noon .....January 29, 6:30 to 9:00 ....February 2 & 3, 6:30 to 9:00 ....as needed ..... page 40 Adjourned: 9:00 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 1, 1997 WS120197