HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-10-21 AgendaSubject to change as finalized by the City Clerk. For a final official copy, contact the City Clerk's Office, 356-5040.
AGENDA
CITY COUNCIL JV~EETING
October 21, t997 - 7:00 p.m.
Civic Center
ITEM NO. 1.
CALL TO ORDER.
ROLL CALL.
ITEM NO. 2.
ITEM NO. 3.
ITEM NO. 4.
MAYOR'S PROCLAMATIONS.
a. Toastmasters Day- October 21
b. Change Your Clock, Change Your Battery Day - October 26
c. Crime Prevention Week- O~_~25-~
d. Home Health Care Month-,~m b.~~
OUTSTANDING STUDENT CITIZENS - HORACE MANN ELEMENTARY
a. Maren Allen
b. Benjamin Berman
c. Hanna Meyer '~;Z~O SECANT C
CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE C ALENDAR AS PRESENTED
OR AMENDED.
a. Approval of Official Council Actions .of the special meeting of
October 6, and the regular meeting of October 7, as published,
subject to corrections, as recommended by the City Clerk.
b. Minutes of Boards and Commissions.
(1) Historic Preservation Commission- September 9
(2) Parks and Recreation Commission - September 11
(3) Planning and Zoning Commission - October 2
(4) Police Citizen Review Board - October 2
Recommendation to Council: Council approve 45-day extension of
time to respond to Complaint No. 97-01.
(5) Police Citizen Review Board - October 8
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ITEM NO. 2C MAYOR'S PROCLAMATIONS -- Crime Prevention Week, October 25 - 31
Nov/ (Reads agenda item #2c)
Marian Karr/ Madam Mayor, we have Kari Neblett, Jamie Dean, and Jim Swain here to
accept.
Jim Swain/ Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm Jim Swain. I live at 1024 Woodlawn, here in
Iowa City, and I also work at United Action for Youth. I want to thank you for that
proclamation, and just let the viewing public know that there's an exciting thing related
to making our community a safe place. This Thursday from 4:00-5:00 at First
National Bank, here in Iowa City, we are kicking off what's called Project Safe Place.
Safe Place is a parmership with community businesses and youth agencies here in Iowa
City. It allows young people to be able to ask for help at a local business that displays
the Safe Place sign. That can be help for things like a kid who's a runaway; a kid
who's just in trouble for some reason; a young person who maybe is feeling threatened;
or a person being followed; any kind of trouble situation like that. The businesses are
getting trained so that their staff are able to respond immediately to that, and also so
that that location, the locations of those things are out in kids' neighborhoods, rather
than necessarily relying on the Youth Center here downtown, or some other agency.
The Project's being organized by Youth Homes, a division of Four Oaks and United
Action for Youth, and we have a couple of key businesses that are helping. One, of
course, is Quik-Trip. We also want to say thank you to the Iowa City Fire
Department, which is also a parmer in the project. We've just gotten a commitment
from McDonalds here in Iowa City, and I think in Coralville and the other stores here
in the Iowa City area. Also First National Bank. We have an advisory group. Any
business that's interested in participating, we would welcome their participation. And
again, we want to invite the general public to the Safe Place kickoff from 4:00 to 5:00.
We think it's one step, one additional step to make our community a safer place. Also,
if anybody is interested, we have our community crime prevention coalition, which
meets tomorrow, at the County Administration Building, starting at 10:00, and any
folks that are interested in the crime prevention efforts are welcome to join us at that
meeting. Thank you very much.
Nov/ Thank you. And thanks to all the businesses, especially the ones that are open 24 hours
a day.
Swain/ Those are the ones we like.
Nov/ Thanks.
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ITEM NO. 2d MAYOR'S PROCLAMATIONS -- Home Health Care Month - November
Nov/ (Reads agenda item #2d).
Karr/ Here to accept, we have Kerri Peterson, Patty McNichol, Maggie Elliott, and Annette
Greiner.
Maggie Elliott/ I'm Maggie Elliott, from Iowa City Hospice, and on behalf of Mercy Home
Health, the VNA, and HomeLife, we would like to thank you for recognizing Home
Health Care Month in November, and also making the people of the community aware
of services that home care can bring to them in their homes. So, thank you.
Nov/ Thank you for all the good work you do.
Nov/
Now, before I get to the next part of the agenda, I would like to welcome journalism
classes of Stephen Bloom and Kate Corcoran, the reason we have such a full house
tonight.
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ITEM NO. 3 OUTSTANDING STUDENT CITIZENS -- HORACE MANN ELEMENTARY
Nov/ We have Outstanding Student Citizens from Horace Mann Elementary School. Would
Maren Allen, Benjamin Berman, and Hanna Meyer please come up and stand right
here.
Karr/ We have Morgan Nicholson, Student Council Representative, doing the reading,
Madam Mayor.
Nov/ All right. Morgan is going to read about all three of her fellow students who are
winning awards. Now, who are you going to read about first?
Morgan Nicholson/ Maren Allen.
Nov/ Okay.
Nicholson/ Maren goes to Horace Mann School. She likes the school and thinks it is great
because it offers a lot of opportunities for students. Not just subjects like Math,
Science, and the others, but also friendship, and learning the kinds of choices we can
make in life. She likes the teachers and kids at school who have helped her to continue
to understand and treat people right. Maren Allen helps others. She is a good teacher,
a good leader, and can listen to the opinions of others, as well.
Nov/
Very nice. I'm going to read this one. They're all the same so I'm not going to read
every one of them. It says "Citizenship Award. For her outstanding qualities of
leadership within Horace Mann Elementary, as well as the community, and for her
sense of responsibility and helpfulness to others, we recognize Maren Allen as an
Outstanding Student Citizen. Your community is proud of you." Presented by the
Iowa City City Council and signed by the Mayor, and complete with gold seal. Turn
this way so the camera can see you. Okay. Go ahead and read the next one.
Nicholson/ Ben Berman. Ben Berman is the kind of person every kid should use as a role
model. For instance, if a kid gets hurt during recess, Ben will be there to help him or
her. Or, if he sees some trash, he picks it up. Ben is also very responsible about
getting things done, and will gladly help other students during class when they have
trouble. Ben is a good person to help with younger kids. He has a way with them that
makes them immediately like him which helps a lot during Buddies at school. Ben is
also a good person when it comes to decisions. He is a natural devil's advocate, and
always looks at decisions from both perspectives. All this makes him a valuable person
to have in our cottonunity, in many different ways.
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Nov/ Congratulations, Ben.
Nicholson/ Hanna Meyer. Hanna is our class's Outstanding Citizen recipient. She is a
responsible person. She starts her assignments promptly and finishes work on time.
She always gets her homework done and puts in extra effort. She has been our Class
Secretary, taking attendance, lunch count, and organizing activities. Hanna is a nice
person to everyone. She's not mean to anybody, and never puts anyone down. She is
a great peer helper. If you need help with homework or a social problem, you can ask
her for help. Hanna can help you look at a problem from a different view. She is a
great friend. Hanna is actively involved in community sports. She plays on the soccer
team and basketball team. She usually has a story to tell about the last game. Hanna
has a positive attitude about school, and always can be seen wearing a smile.
Nov/ Thank you. You did a great job.
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October 21, 1997 City of Iowa City Page 2
357
Permit Motions and Resolutions as Recommended by the City Clerk.
(1)
(2)
(3)
Consider a motion approving a Class E Beer Permit for Devotay,
Inc., dba Devotay, 117 N. Linn St. (Renewal)
Consider a motion approving a Class B Beer Permit for Landis
Management, Inc., dba Duds'N Suds, 5 Sturgis Drive. (Renewal)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Beer Permit for Inland
Transport Company dba Kirkwood 76 Mart, 300 Kirkwood Ave.
(Renewal)
(4)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Liquor License for
Diamond Dave's Leasing Corp., dba Diamond Dave's Taco
Company, 1604 Sycamore St. (Renewal)
(5)
(6)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Liquor License for Yelder
Enterprises, Inc., dba The Que Bar, 211 Iowa Ave. (Renewal)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Liquor License for Sabilla,
Inc., dba Maxie's, 1920 Keokuk St. (Renewal)
(7) Consider a Resolution to issue Dancing Permits to The Que Bar,
211 Iowa Ave.; and Maxie's 1920 Keokuk St.
Setting Public
(1)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR
NOVEMBER 11 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF
CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF THE WOOLF AVENUE BRIDGE
RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT (PROJECT NO. BRM-3715(4)--SN-
52), DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID
HEARING, AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE
SAID PLANS ON FILE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
Comment: This project involves the complete removal and
replacement of the WooIf Avenue bridge spanning Highway 6
and the Crandic Railroad and the reconstruction of the WooIf
Avenue pavement between Newton Road and Bayard Street
along with the installation of sidewalk, water main, and storm
sewer facilities. The total estimated construction cost if
$1,203,000. This project will be funded with approximately
9708,000 of Federal Aid Highway Bridge Replacement and
Rehabilitation Program monies and about 9495,000 of Road Use
Tax revenue and General Obligation bonds. This project will be
let by the Iowa Department of Transportation on December 12,
1997.
City of iowa City
MEMO, ANDUM
DATE:
TO:
FROM:
REF:
October 20, 1997
Mayor, City Council, General Public
Marian K. Karr, City Clerk
Additions to Consent Calendar
4. c. (9)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Liquor License for Athena, LLC, dba Athena
Restaurant, 320 E. Burlington Street. (New)
4.c. (e)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Liquoar License for SG of Iowa City, Inc.,
dba Jimmy's Brick Oven Cafe, 749 Mormon Trek Blvd. (New)
October 21, 1997 City of Iowa City Page 3
(2)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR
NOVEMBER 11 ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3
ENTITLED "CITY FINANCES, TAXATION & FEES," CHAPTER 4
ENTITLED SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES, BONDS,
FINE AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE TO INCREASE THE
RATES FOR FEES AND CHARGES FOR POTABLE WATER USE
AND SERVICE AND WASTEWATER TREATIVIENT WORKS USER
CHARGES.
Comment: This resolution sets a public hearing on a proposed
rate increase or changes for water and wastewater fees. The
hearing will be held in the Civic Center Council Chambers at
7:00 p.m., November 11, 1997, to permit public input to be
heard regarding proposed rate increases or changes for water
and wastewater fees. The new rates are scheduled to go into
effect for billings on or after March 1, 1998. the previous rate
increase went into effect on March 1, 1997.
e. Motions.
(1)
CONSIDER A MOTION ACCEPTING' ABSTRACT OF VOTES FOR
THE IOWA CITY PRIMARY ELECTION HELD ON THE 7TH DAY
OCTOBER, 1997.
(2)
CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $10,083,761.85 FOR THE PERIOD OF
SEPTEMBER 1 THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30, 1997, AS
RECOMMENDED BY THE FINANCE DIRECTOR SUBJECT TO
AUDIT. DISBURSEMENTS ARE PUBLISHED AND PERMANENTLY
RETAINED IN THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE IN ACCORDANCE
WITH STATE CODE.
f. Resolutions.
(1)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING WORK FOR
THE GROUNDWATER STORAGE RESERVOIR PUMP SYSTEM
IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT.
Comment: See Engineer's Report.
(2)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE WORK FOR THE
STORM SEWER AND WATER MAIN PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS
FOR AUDITOR'S PARCEL 95081 (CONTAINING BUILDINGS
ADDRESSED 749, 751, 751 1/2, AND 753 WEST BENTON
STREET).
Comment: See Engineer's Report.
(3)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE WORK FOR
THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE FIRST AVENUE PAVING AND
STORM SEWER IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT, BRADFORD TO
MUSCATINE.
Comment: See Engineer's Report.
October 2'1, 1997 City of Iowa City Page 4
(4) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR
TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST STORM
SEWER, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND WATERMAIN
EASEMENT AGREEMENTS FOR DEVELOPMENT AT 749
THROUGH 753 WEST BENTON STREET, IOWA CITY, IOWA.
Comment: Pursuant to the Code of Ordinances of the City of
Iowa City, Iowa, Tom Lepic submi.tted a development plan for
the area known as Forestridge located at 749 through 753 West
Benton Street, Iowa City, Iowa. Pursuant to said plat and plan,
certain easements must be acquired for the provision of public
infrastructure. City staff has approved the proposed Storm
Sewer, Stormwater Management and Watermain Easement
Agreements required for infrastructure in this area. This
Resolution authorizes the City's execution of the necessary
Easement Agreements.
g. Correspondence.
(1) Isaac Burns- skateboarding
(2) Robert Barker- Sandplant Proposal
(3) JCCOG Traffic Engineering Planner:
(a) No Parking Corner to Here at Intersection of Jefferson
Street and Johnson Street
(b) Designation of Ten Additional Metered Parking Spaces
Downtown
(c) Designation of On-Street Angle Parking Downtown
(d) Removal of Commercial Loading Zone for Downtown
Transit Shuttle Stop
h. Use of City Streets and Public Grounds. (all approved)
(1) Peg Fraser (Hospice Road Races) - October 19.
(2) Kristin Thiel (Amnesty International's Get Up, Stand Up, and
Walk") - October 17
END OF CONSENT CALENDAR.
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ITEM NO. 4 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED
OR AMENDED.
Nov/ Consider adoption of the Consent Calendar, as amended.
Lehman/ So moved.
Thornberry/ Second.
Nov/ Moved by Lehman, seconded by Thornberry. Discussion?
Norton/ I have one question about the changes in parking on Jefferson and Johnson and the
loading zone on Clinton. Have neighbors been contacted, or is that appropriate? I just
wondered what might have been done in the way of talking to the people on Johnson
Street who would be affected by that change.
Nov/ I don't know. Steve, do you lmow if the neighbors --
Steve Atkins/ No, I don't.
Norton/ I think it's pretty important, but I just --
Atkins/ You can postpone it, if you'd like.
Nov/ Very often, if we're deciding on which street to say no parking, the neighbors are
contacted. But in this case, I thought it was kind of a safety issue, in which case they
were maybe not contacted.
Atkins/ Normally, parking here to corner involves just that. Folks have trouble making a
turning movement, they actually have to creep out into the intersection, and that's
generally the justification. Whether we've contacted the property owners, I'm sorry, I
don't know. If you'd like to postpone it, I can check for you.
Norton/ I didn't mean to do that, I just thought it might be nice to let them know there's --
Atkins/ Yeah.
Norton/ A change --
Atkins/ But generally, we do postal card surveys, and other forms of public information. I
just simply don't know the answer to that one.
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Kubby/ Maybe we could just give some written notice to them so they know about it before
the sign goes up, if they're used to parking off, or on the street there, they at least have
some notification --
Arkins/ Is that satisfactory to the rest of the Council?
Norton/ Is there just one?
Vanderhoef/ (Yes).
Norton/ You've checked that out, it's just that one space?
Vanderhoef/ I talked to Joe Fowler today, and he said just one space would have to be
removed between the corner and what's already there.
Norton/ To allow 60 feet of clearance from the corner? Wow. Well then it's hardly worth
the candle in that case.
Atkins/Okay.
Thornberry/ An addition to C, there is C8 and C9 on a separate addition to the Consent
Calendar.
Lehman/ That was the amended part, wasn't it?
Vanderhoef/ Yeah, that was the amended part.
Nov/ You mean to the two liquor licenses?
Thornberry/Right. I mean it wasn't in the thing, so yeah.
Kubby/ Actually, I had a comment on page 3, on item f3, about the accepting the work for
First Avenue paving and storm sewer improvements. And, the project went off really
smoothly, especially compared to the other part of First Avenue. It was done on time,
and I think the incentive for finishing early, and the penalty for finishing late came to
be a good combination. That seemed to be very successful here, and I hope that we
institute that in the future. And also noted that it's a $1,200,000 project for this one
block, and that just seemed outrageous.
Thornberry/ It was the sod.
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Kubby/ And part, it's my understanding, that part of it's because there was a lot of sewer
work. Not just the storm water, but there was some other sewer work --
Arkins/ Yes, yeah, usually when we go in and do a street removal, we will go in and make
any repairs, water and sewer work. That's fairly common.
Kubby/ And so really, what that's kind of saying to me is the sign that that part of town is
starting to age --
Atkins/ Yes.
Kubby/ And our CIP really needs to reflect, we need a good maintenance program so when
we don't do a street, we still don't have sewer problems.
Atkins/ I think your assessment is correct.
Norton/ But did that include the sewer that went along the railroad, that went down along the
railroad?
Lehman/ That was a storm sewer.
Atkins/ That was a storm sewer.
Lehman/ A storm sewer.
Norton/ Yeah, but did it include that?
Atkins/ Oh yeah.
Nov/ Yeah, it's part of the project.
Norton/ Okay, so it is a pretty big project. More than just the street.
Atkins/ Right, yeah.
Thornberry/ And that, the project on First Avenue, went rather quickly, like Karen said, and
I think it was because they had that penalty for delay and onus for finishing sooner.
Because the same contractor was working on Highland, and I don't believe they had
that, that incentive to finish Highland any quicker than they did, so it was delayed
while First Avenue was completed.
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Kubby/ So you'd be in favor of continuing that strategy.
Thornberry/ It seems to work.
Nov/
Okay. Any other discussion? I'd like to note that within the Consent Calendar, we are
setting two public hearings. On (October 11), November 11. One is for the
construction of the Wooif Avenue bridge, and the other is City finances, which means
raised fees for water rates and wastewater rates. Roll call- (yes). Motion carried. We
have approved the Consent Calendar.
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ITEM NO. 5.
City of Iowa City
PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Page 5
ITEM NO. 6. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 11 on an
application to amend the approved Sensitive Areas Development Plan
for Walden Hills to allow the development of Lot 53, containing 8'.66
acres and located within the OSA-8, Sensitive Areas Overlay zone at
the northwest corner of Rohret Road and Shannon Drive. (REZ97-
0016)
Comment: It is anticipated that the Planning and Zoning Commission
will vote on this item at its November 6 meeting. Because of changes
to the Council's meeting schedule and public notice requirements,
waiting until after the Commission's vote before setting the public
hearing would result in a delay of up to seven weeks.
Action:
Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 11 on a
resolution approving the annexation of a 2.81 acre tract located
southeast of the intersection of Iowa Highway 1 and Naples Avenue.
(ANN97-0002)
Comment: At its October 2 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 7-0, recommended approval of the
proposed annexation. Staff recommended approval in a report dated
September 18.
Action:
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ITEM NO. 5 PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Nov/
Item//5 is for Public Discussion. This is for an item that is not on today's agenda.
Please come forward, sign your name and address, and limit your comments to no
longer than five minutes.
Philip Zell/ My name is Philip Zell, and I'm representing the Senior Center Commission, and
I wanted to invite you to the Senior Center annual Town Meeting tomorrow. It will be
from 3:30 to 5:00 on the first floor in the dining room. The meeting's for anybody
who's interested in the operation of the center, any users of the center, or people who
might use the center who have questions or concerns. It'll be a wide-open discussion,
and best two out of three falls, and you all are welcome.
Kubby/ Thank you.
Nov/ Thanks, Philip.
Michael Finley/ Good evening. My name is Michael Finley. I reside at 715 South First
Avenue. And I've come to say a little bit about several things. About two years ago, I
appeared before the City Council with concerns over the Eagle Shopping Center going
into First Avenue, which later became Hy-Vee. I do believe I was in front of this
Council on three different occasions. And as the plans for Hy-Vee began to develop, I
felt at that time it was a horrible idea that the loading dock region of the Hy-Vee food
store would be set against the residential neighborhood. I was assured that the noise
would be of no trouble. As it sits today, I have personally been awakened twice, once
at 3:48 in the morning, by the semis with their backing-up beepers, backing up to the
loading dock. Now, as an orthotist, I have patient care as the chief concern of my
daily routine, and if I arrive at work without sleep, then my ability to take care of my
patients is diminished. My neighbor, Shelly Funk, has been awakened. My son
Joseph has been awakened, as the neighbors across the street have been awakened.
Another thing, moving right along. I was also assured at a meeting that was held at
Southeast Junior High, by Karin Franklin, that semis would not use First Avenue from
Rochester down to the Hy-Vee foodstore. That has proven to be not true. And I
would ask you to consider restricting semi traffic on First Avenue from D Street to
Rochester, so that the plan of having the semis use Scott Boulevard and Muscatine
Avenue can remain intact, as was intended from the onset of the Hy-Vee project. And,
third, I would like to comment, as a resident of First Avenue, on the extension of First
Avenue. I would very much like to commend those people who put this on the ballot,
and would like very much to ask all the citizens across the city to look very deeply into
this issue. As those of us who live directly on First Avenue, by and large are opposed
to this, not so much because of the park, but because, once again, the City has put the
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cart way ahead of the horse. If you are going to extend First Avenue, please do it in a
timely, and reasonable fashion, that will assure safety. Do first things first. Expand
First Avenue from D Street to Rochester into three lanes, assuring safety for those who
have to back onto First Avenue. Then do your extension. Don't do one and then the
other, because there will be accidents. Last Thursday morning, a three-car rear-end
collision at D Street. And these rear-end collisions, especially at that juncture where
the "V" goes down to two lanes, are going to become more and more frequent. I have
spoken to Ernie Lehman on the phone about a crossing signal or a stoplight at
Friendship. Those people who have to wait there in the morning are now finding that
they actually have to go the other direction to Scott Boulevard in order to go
downtown. And it's a great inconvenience to those who live in the immediate
neighborhood. And last, and you'll be rid of me. I've heard a lot of discontent from
my neighbors and friends, associates, about the way the City's being run. And I think
it's time to open the discussion about the form of government we have in Iowa City.
And I would like to see that discussion is promoted, and maybe even one day sit on the
ballot, to have this type of government changed back to a commission form of
government. I feel that commissioners who are elected to their offices are more closely
tied to the people, than the present City management and their staff are. Thank you
very much.
Nov/ Thank you. Steve, is there some way we can restrict those trucks? Can they turn off
their back-up signals or something like that?
Atkins/ To my knowledge, legally, I do not think they can turn off the back-up signal. I
suspect that's probably a federal regulation, particularly anybody, over-the-road long-
haul trucker I suspect, is regulated by certain federal regulations, and/or state. I will
find out for you. With respect to the regulation of semis, that one I'm not real sure --
Karin Franklin/ I've already contacted Hy-Vee about that, and they're working on what the
truck routes are. Mike is right that a commitment was made by Hy-Vee not to use
First Avenue for that truck traffic, but to use Scott and Muscatine. So, we're working
with Hy-Vee on that.
Nov/ Yeah, I remember that they said that.
Kubby/ And I called the man that Karin Franklin recommended I speak with about the times
of loading, because it seems that they should be able to be good neighbors and load at a
time that people are typically awake, anyway. And I haven't gotten a call back yet.
So, I'll pursue that as well.
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Thornberry/ Yeah, we were told by Hy-Vee that they would be using the one, the Broadway
Hy-Vee, go there first from 380, down Highway 6 to do that Hy-Vee, and then come
over, up First Avenue to that Hy-Vee, and then go back to not Rochester, but --
Norton/ Scott.
Thornberry/ Scott.
Nov/ They did say Scott and Muscatine --
Thornberry/ Right.
Nov/ This--
Thornberry/ They said that they would not go down First Avenue, so this is news, and we
will pursue --
Atkins/ We'll find out some things for you.
Jeanette Waters/ My name is Jeanette Waters. I live at 1538 Rochester Avenue. Two or
three weeks ago, I was listening to the Council meeting on TV and heard you talking
about the issue of Save the Trees. This was in regard to the Elks property, I believe.
You stated, one of the Council's goals was to save the trees. This caught my attention,
because I also want to save the trees, and this is in reference to the Woolf Avenue
bridge reconstruction project. I own two apartment buildings on Woolf Avenue, and
have been informed that the Wooif reconstruction involves placing sidewalks in front of
these buildings. In order to accomplish this, the City plans to remove three mature
trees, and seven evergreen bushes on the bank in front of the apartment building at 5
Wooif Avenue. I was in shock when I learned of this plan. First of all, these trees
have been there for 40 or 50 years. This I know. 5 Wooif Avenue is 40 years old,
and the other building, 15 Wooif Avenue, has been owned by my family for 50-some
years, and we have always maintained these trees. And we have never been informed
that they were on City property. Second, I feel that trees and bushes add beauty to the
property. This is primarily the only landscaping there. Third, to remove the trees will
destroy the environment. Your plan is to remove these trees and bushes, and replace it
with a concrete wall and concrete sidewalk. This will be environmentally less
desirable and result in a very different situation. For example, keeping the sidewalk
clear of snow will be a nightmare. We will have to blow the snow toward the street,
while the City snowplow will push it back toward the sidewalk, and the retaining wall.
When I talked to the Assistant City Engineer, Mr. Dennis Gannon, he informed me
that two of the trees are definitely on City property, and the third tree probably, more
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than half on City property. They would all be removed with no plans to replace them
except with an ugly cement retaining wall. Let me say I see no reason to remove these
trees when it could be avoided. I think there's plenty of room to move the street to the
east far enough to still build a sidewalk and not destroy the trees. This corner, at
WooIf Avenue and Newton Road, used to be a triangle with green space in the middle,
so I feel there is, I feel the better plan would be to straighten the street. When talking
with Mr. Gannon, he stated that the plan was to resurface the street as part of this
project, and I feel that the time would be then right to change the direction of this
street, since there appears to be space available. I understand the need for the Wooif
Avenue bridge reconstruction, and possibly the need for sidewalks, although sidewalks
already exist on the east side of the street. I feel there needs to be consideration given
to the placement of these sidewalks. Let me ask, should there be any difference in
saving the trees in the environment in the, on public or private property? Again, I ask
that you save the trees.
Nov/
You know, we talked about this last night, and the City Council agreed with you. We
asked the City Engineers to see if they could move the street alignment to save the
trees, and if they absolutely had to take out a couple of trees, we said that they should
plant new trees.
Thornberry/ We're also looking at the sidewalk on that side of the street, saying where does it
go down when it gets to the end? I think it goes nowhere.
Waters/ Nowhere.
Thornberry/ So, is the sidewalk absolutely necessary on that side of the street?
Waters/ Right.
Thornberry/ I'm not sure. I don't perhaps think it would be, unless people continue to walk
on that side of the street, and once a path has been made, perhaps a sidewalk could be
put in where the path was. But we looked at it last night and said gee, we could move
that bend around a little bit and save those trees. And we've already --
Nov/ We've (can't understand).
Thornberry/ We've thought about that, and agreed with you --
Waters/ Okay.
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Thornberry/ But we wanted you to say your piece, and we are looking at you, and we have
the same concerns that you do.
Kubby/ But we don't know yet. We haven't heard back from the engineers --
Waters/ I did have --
Thornberry/ We'll have to wait to hear back from the engineers.
Waters/ A map here if you're interested in --
Thornberry/ We did have, we saw a map of the engineers' and we thought maybe we could
move that bend a little bit further --
Waters/ Right.
Thornberry/ Up, and then miss all that.
Waters/ And we thought, I thought, maybe that even might slow some of the traffic around
Thornberry/ Yeah.
Waters/ The corners, you know.
Thornberry/ And I think the only reason that is, the sidewalks are to be on both sides of the
streets are only for home football games.
Waters/ But people don't use them.
Nov/ Well, that--
Thornberry/ Ah, basketball, it gets pretty cold --
Nov/ They really are for pedestrian safety. There's a logical reason for those sidewalks. But
we asked them if they could try and move it to keep the trees, and if they can't move
it, we'll put in new trees.
Thornberry/ But I understand your concern about blowing the snow off onto the street, and
then the street-sweeper comes back and puts it back on. I think we all have that
problem. I know that the easiest, shortest way to get my street shoveled is to shovel
my driveway, and then they come and plow it back --
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Nov/ There's a nice mountain at the end of the driveway.
Thornberry/ Yeah, that's, we all have that consternation.
Norton/ That's by ordinance.
Thornberry/ Oh yeah, I think so.
Kubby/ But you know, a thing we didn't talk about last night was if the retaining wall,
because I know a concrete retaining wall can be pretty ugly, if there's a way we could
at least texturize it?
Atkins/ Oh, yes.
Kubby/ Or something, so that it wasn't so massive and bulky --
Atkins/ We've sort of made the assumption that if there's a way that that, I guess texturize is
the right word, there can be some architectural treatment to make it look nicer, I think
that's certainly in everyone's best interests.
Nov/ And we're going to have this tinted concrete, anyway, for the bridge. We could just
use the same batch.
Atkins/Yeah. I don't know about that --
Norton/ We've put in some very nice retaining walls on Kirkwood, when you redid
Kirkwood.
Atkins/ Some very attractive walls.
Kubby/ It sort of tried to look like stonework.
Norton/ There are some issues, incidentally, with the VA and the realignment of that street.
It's not all as easy as it may appear. The triangle came out for some reason, they said
they wanted a right-angle intersection, and so it's a little more complicated. But we
certainly are trying.
Lehman/ This was brought to our attention by the City Engineers. There's one tree that I
think is a goner.
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//5 page 7
Waters/ One tree that needs --
Lehman/ One that has to go.
Waters/ Trimming, I think, or whatever.
Lehman/ Right. We will make whatever efforts we can to save the tree.
Waters/ Okay, thank you.
Nov/ Is there someone else who would like to talk about a topic that is not on today's agenda?
Okay.
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October 21, 1997 City of Iowa City Page 6
c. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 11 on an
ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing the use
regulations of a 2.81 acre tract, located .southeast of the intersection
of Iowa Highway 1 and Naples Avenue, from County CP-1, Planned
Commercial, to Cl-1, Intensive Commercial. (REZ97-0014)
Comment: At its October 2 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 7-0, recommended approval of the
proposed rezoning. Staff recommended approval in a report dated
September 18.
Action:
d. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 11 on an
ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing the use
regulations of a 0.87 acre tract, located on the east side of West Side
Drive and south of Earl Road, from RM-12, Low Density Multi-Family
Residential and Cl-1, Intensive Commercial, to CO-1, Commercial
Office. (REZ97-0004)
Comment: At its October 2 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 7-0, recommended approval of the
proposed rezoning. Staff recommended approval in a report dated
September 18.
Action:
e. Public hearing on the Comprehensive Plan, including the South District
Plan.
Comment: At its September 18 meeting, by a vote of 6-0, the
Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval of the
Cbmprehensive Plan, subject to the addition of language regarding
1) information technology, and 2) consideration of traffic issues on
existing streets in the annexation policy of the Plan. The Commission
also recommended approval of the South District Plan by a vote of
6-0. It is anticipated that Council will continue the public hearing to
November 11 to allow discussion of the Plan with the Planning and
Zoning Commission on November 3.
Action:
#6e page 1
ITEM NO. 6e PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS -- Public hearing on the
Comprehensive Plan, including the South District Plan.
Nov/ (Reads agenda item #6e). P.h. is now open. Marian, what time on November 3rd was
that one?
Karr/ We'd like to schedule it for 6:30.
Nov/ Okay. People are welcome to come and listen. 6:30 on November 3rd.
Karr/ That would be a work session.
Nov/ Work session. No public comment, but discussion. George?
George Starr/ My name is George Starr. I live at 830 East Davenport Street in Iowa City.
I'm the Chair of the Iowa City Planning and Zoning Commission. P/Z unanimously
recommended approval of the 1997 Comprehensive Plan Additions to the, with
additions to the Plan, through the P/Z process included language on invasive, and I
think you've already touched on this, invasive exotic plant species, language
suggestions to promote clarity throughout the document, and language pertaining to
information technology. The Commission recognizes the years of effort put into this
document by citizens participating in the Iowa City Beyond 2000 1994 Task Forces,
the neighborhood organizations which provided input to this vision, the various Boards
and Commissions which participated, and last, but certainly not least, City staff, and
their tremendous organizational, facilitory, and preparational roles in putting this
document together. The Commission encourages adoption of the 1997 Iowa City
Comprehensive Plan. In tandem with the Comprehensive Plan, the Commission held
public discussions on the South District Plan. The first of ten district plans to be
developed, as more detailed guides to the Comprehensive Plan. The district plan deals
with the overriding approach to the Comprehensive Plan, which is the City of Iowa
City as a community of neighborhoods. The South District plan is one of those -- the
South District is one of those neighborhoods. The South District Plan was developed
cooperatively with citizens who own property or live in that area, and the Commission
additionally recommends, unanimously recommends approval of this plan as well. And
I would certainly try to answer any questions about this most fascinating document.
Thornberry/ George, in your public hearings, did you have any people show up?
Stm'r/ Not a significant number. I was trying to remember, before I came tonight, how many
public hearings we actually had, and I believe we had at least four. And I would wager
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#6e page 2
that we probably had, during public discussion, a total of eight to nine. And I, don't
quote me on that, but I'm trying to recollect.
Kubby/ Thanks.
Starr/ Thank you.
Nov/ Is there anyone else who would like to discuss our new Comprehensive Plan? Okay, we
need a motion to continue the p.h.
Norton/ I so --
Nov/ You want to confuse me.
Norton/ No, I'll move to continue the p.h.
Lehman/ Second.
Nov/ Okay, it's been moved by Norton, seconded by Lehman, to continue the p.h. to what,
November 117
Norton/ Yes.
Nov/ Okay. P.h. is continued. Now, we need a vote.
Norton/ Before you vote, I just wanted to ask the question. Can people buy a copy? Or how
do they get a copy of the Plan if they want to study it?
Nov/ I think we can just give them one. What do we do?
Norton/ What do we do?
Franklin/ Copies of the Plan are available in the Department of Planning and Community
Development here in the Civic Center. They are also available for viewing at the
Public Library if you don't want to actually take a copy. We do give them away.
the plan for the entire city.
It's
Nov/
Okay. Anyone who feels like having their own copy may go to the Planning
Department and have one. If you want to just have a look at it, it's at the Public
Library. It's at the City Clerk's Office, it's sitting around.
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Thornberry/ You can have mine.
Nov/ It's in the hands of every City Council member. I think I have two if anybody wants
my extra one. Anything else?
Lehman/ Well, you know, it just seems to me, we refer to this Plan, in almost everything we
do. When it comes to zoning, when it comes to fringe area, we refer to this on almost
any, it's kind of like our Bible. And to me, it's amazing that we don't have more
public comment. Because we do things, and people say hey, you snuck on this. No,
it's in the Plan. It's been there for years. Now's the opportunity for people to look at
this and say, look, we agree with this; we don't agree with it. But basically, this is the
roadmap that we're going to be using once it's passed. And I would certainly
encourage anyone who has any comment, pro or con, to come to the continuation at the
meeting November 1 lth.
Nov/
And we have had good participation from the people in the various districts. I went to
one of the district meetings, and people who live there, who own property there, do
come and do participate.
Norton/ Yeah, that would be another chance, as we move through the ten districts, each
neighborhood will certainly have a chance to comment on the specifics. But this thing
sets forth such things as we want sidewalks. So, we just talk about it tonight. It's a
general policy to have sidewalks. It's a matter of general safety.
Vanderhoef/ I think that's what put some people off. They think it might be a very technical
document, and it's not a technical document at all. It's very legible. Any of us can
read it and understand, and follow through with what the Plan intends to happen for the
City.
Nov/ Okay. We have a motion to continue this hearing to November 1 lth. All in favor,
please say aye- (ayes). Opposed same sign. Motion carried.
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q7~
5~11 f'
Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by changing the
zoning designation from RS-5, Low Density Single-Family Residential
to OPDH-5, Planned Development Housing Overlay Zone, for 3.63
acres located east of Somerset Lane and south of Wellington Drive.
(REZ97-0012) (Second consideration)
q'7~ -.---A ~ '4 g.
Comment: At its August 21 meeting, by a vote of 7-0, the Planning
and Zoning Commission recommended approval of the rezoning and
preliminary OPDH plan. Staff recommended approval in a report dated
August7. /qto/gRCa..~4 P..~¢0~7~ d.~l~d,~,~ ~,c"~d'),7,
Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Village Green,
Part Fifteen, a 36.75 acre, 1-1or residential subdivision with three
outlots located south of Wellington Drive and east o~ Somerset Lane.
Comment: At its August
Commission, by a vote of
preliminary plat of Village Green, Part Fifteen.
approval in a report dated August 7.
Action:
21 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
7-0, recommended approval of the
Staff recommended
Consider a resolution approving the final plat of Village Green, Part
Fifteen, a 36.75 acre, 1-lot residential subdivision with three outlots
located on Somerset Lane. (SUB97-0022)
Comment: At its September 18 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
.Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the final plat
of Village Green, Part Fifteen, subject approval of legal papers and
construction drawings prior to City Council consideration of the plat.
The legal papers and construction drawings are being reviewed. Staff
recommended approval in a report dated September 9.
#6h page 1
ITEM NO. 6h PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS -- Consider a resolution approving
the final plat of Village Green, Part Fifteen, a 36.75 acre, 1-lot residential subdivision
with three outlots located on Somerset Lane. (SUB97-0022)
Nov/ (Reads agenda item #6h).
Vanderhoef/ Move adoption of the resolution.
Baker/ Second.
Nov/ Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Baker. Discussion? Roll call- (yes).
Franklin/ Madam Mayor? I just wanted to remind the Council about the Dover lecture on
Thursday and ask that you let the City Clerk know if you're going to be attending or
not. Also, in terms of the tour of the peninsula, for the work that's going to be done
on the peninsula on Thursday afternoon, I would encourage you to form a
subcommittee of not more than three Council members, because of the difficulty of
logistics with that if you do wish to go.
Nov/ Okay.
Franklin/ Okay?
Kubby/ We don't know what time yet, on Thursday, if we chose to go?
Franklin/ We don't. It would be sometime after 1:00. That's when his flight is due in. But
we've anticipated rain.
Nov/ I would say after 2:00.
Franklin/ It would be hard to tell.
Nov/ By the time the flight lands, and then he gets here.
Kubby/ I want to make sure, because I just thought it would be fun to hear this man talk about
his ideas in terms of the land. Actually being out on the land. But, if our presence
would interfere with the purpose of this, I want to make sure we don't interfere with
work time of this person, for staff. Because really, you're going out there for staff to
talk with this person.
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Franklin/ That's right. And it's for him to gain a familiarity with the peninsula, take his
thoughts, that knowledge, and then give us some recommendations on what we would
include on the request for proposal. I don't know that it would be interfering, it's just
a matter of if there's four of you, then it's a public meeting, and then --
Kubby/ And we wouldn't want to violate a law.
Franklin/ And it's just logistically difficult.
Council/ (All talking).
Norton/ He's not going to try to make recommendations that evening, on the basis of --
Franklin/ Absolutely not. And remember, as I indicated to you last night, we are at the very
beginning of all of this. This is going to come back to you. No decisions will be made
Thursday, I can assure you of that.
Thornberry/Where's this guy from?
Franklin/ Florida.
Lehman/ Dover.
Thornberry/ He doesn't know hills.
Lehman/ This person.
Thornberry/ It's a good thing he's going out and visit it.
Nov/ Don't worry about it, okay?
Lehman/ Karin,--
Nov/ Let Marian know, before 11:00 tomorrow morning.
Franklin/ Thank you.
Lehman/ And Karin, it may be well to point out that the front door will be closed Thursday
night. Entrance has to be through the east portion of the Civic Center. Those folks
who want to come to this presentation will not be coming through the front door, but
coming through the ramp on the east side. So --
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Franklin/ Thank you. I did not know that.
Lehman/ So if you come down, it's going to appear to be locked up.
up. You need to come in the east side.
Nov/ Walk around to the other side.
Lehman/ Yes.
Franldin/ Thank you. I'm glad you mentioned it.
Thornberry/ Hope you all have the code.
Atkins/ No, it'll be unlocked.
Nov/ Okay? Moving on.
Thornberry/ Florida, huh?
We're not really locked
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,October 21, 1997 City of Iowa City Page 8
ITEM NO. 7.
THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE
BENEVOLENT AND PROTECTIVE ORDER OF ELKS OF THE U.S.A.
CORP., LODGE NO. $90 THAT ESTABLISHES THE ALIGNMENT OF
FOSTER ROAD EXTENDED THROUGH THE GOLF COURSE IN ORDER
TO FACILITATE THE ClTY'S DEVELOPMENT OF THE PENINSULA AND
THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA CITY WATER SUPPLY AND
TREATMENT FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS AND PROVIDES FOR THE
GRANTING OF A PERMANENT EASEMENT TO THE ELKS ON CITY-
OWNED PROPERTY FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF TWO GOLF HOLES
TO REPLACE THOSE WHICH WILL BE LOST AS A RESULT OF THE
FOSTER ROAD IMPROVEMENTS,
Comment: The City and the Elks Club have negotiated an agreement
which will facilitate the City's development of the Peninsula and the
construction of the Iowa City Water Supply and Treatment Facility
Improvements as well as allow the Elks Club to continue to operate a golf
course. The agreement provides for the future granting of a permanent
easement by the City to the Elks Club on. City-owned property on the
Peninsula to be used by the Elks Club for the two additional golf holes. In
addition, the agreement provides for the alignment of Foster Road extended
and requires the City to abandon all rights it has in the existing unimproved
roadway that will not be used for the' fixed alignment of Foster Road
extended.
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Action:
b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
//7 page 1
ITEM NO. 7 THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE BENEVOLENT
AND PROTECTIVE ORDER OF ELKS OF THE USA CORP., LODGE NO. 590
THAT ESTABLISHES THE ALIGNMENT OF FOSTER ROAD EXTENDED
THROUGH THE GOLF COURSE IN ORDER TO FACILITATE THE CITY'S
DEVELOPMENT OF THE PENINSULA AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE
IOWA CITY WATER SUPPLY AND TREATMENT FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS
AND PROVIDES FOR THE GRANTING OF A PERMANENT EASEMENT TO
THE ELKS ON CITY-OWNED PROPERTY FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF TWO
GOLF HOLES TO REPLACE THOSE WHICH WILL BE LOST AS A RESULT OF
THE FOSTER ROAD IMPROVEMENTS.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-144 SIDE B
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Nov/ (Reads agenda item//7). P.h. is now open. Anyone who would like to comment,
please come forward, sign your name and address, and limit your comments to no
longer than five minutes.
b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
Nov/ Okay. P.h. is closed. We need a motion to approve the resolution.
Lehman/ So moved.
Thornberry/ Second.
Nov/ Moved by Lelynan, seconded by Thornberry. I hear a little enthusiasm here.
Thornberry/ Let's get it done. Long time coming.
Norton/ It includes a long deliberation.
Thornberry/ Yes.
Nov/ Roll call-
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Kubby/ Well, it's important to, I mean, to me, this is a big move for the City. Because, at
the very beginning, the Elks and the City were very far apart. And we found a way to
come together, and even though my gut reaction is it's not necessarily appropriate to
have City land be used for a private golf course, the way that we've gotten land for our
road, and we've allowed the Elks to continue to use, to have the facility that they're
used to having, lets us do some projects that we want to do. We want to develop the
peninsula, hopefully with some mixed kind of housing, and to have a cleaner raw water
supply. And this road, the land that we're getting to have the road, allows us to have
better access to this land, meaning you all have better access to the peninsula, is a
really good trade-off.
Nov/
This will provide access, not only for development, but also for servicing of the wells,
which are going to be there, and water lines, and pedestrians, and all of the above.
Roll call- (yes). We have approved this resolution.
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October 21, 1997 City of Iowa City Page 9
ITEM NO. 8.
ITEM NO. 9.
ITEM NO. 10.
3¢%
THE WINTER 1997/1998 IOWA CITY DEER MANAGEMENT PLAN.
Comment: The Iowa City/Coralville Deer Management Committee
completed its recommendation for the Winter 1997/1998 Iowa City Deer
Management Plan. The Plan includes educating the public on living with
deer and provide for killing deer in districts of Iowa City where the herd
population is high. Sharpshooting and trap-and-kill are the recommended
methods of lethal reduction. If approved, the Plan will be forwarded to
the Iowa Department of Natural Resources (DNR) for their approval.
After receiving authorization from the DNR, the Plan will be adopted as an
ordinance. Staff memorandum included in Council packet. A large
compilation of support documentation is available for review in the City
Clerk's Office.
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Action: ~.~_/~_.2
b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING ~~~'
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED "POLICE
REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 7, ENTITLED "WEAPONS," TO PROHIBIT THE
USE OF BOWS, ARROWS AND CROSSBOWS WITHIN THE CITY. (FIRST
coNSIDERATION)
Comment: The City Code does not address the use of or discharge of
arrows or other dangerous missiles from bows and crossbows. This
proposed ordinance amends the City Code by prohibiting the discharge of
arrows or other dangerous missiles from bows and crossbows within the
City. Staff memorandum included in Council packet.
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DIRECTING SALE OF 5,540,000 CORPORATE
PURPOSE GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS.
Comment: Sealed bids on the sale of these bonds were received at
11:00 a.m. on October 21, 1997. Bond proceeds will be used to pay
costs of water related projects. This resolution ratifies and confirms the
actions of the City Clerk and the Finance Director in the determination of
the most favorable bid. A completed resolution will be presented to the
City Council at the formal meeting the evening of October 21, 1997.
//8 page 1
ITEM NO. 8 THE WINTER 1997/1998 IOWA CITY DEER MANAGEMENT PLAN
Nov/
(Reads agenda item//8). This is available for anyone in the community who wants to
look at it. Just go into the City Clerk's Office, during the daytime, and have a look at
it. P.h. is now open. The Council would like the members of the Deer Management
Planning Committee to come forward and introduce themselves because we didn't meet
them yet.
Kubby/ And maybe say, there were certain kind of, not really seats, but you represented
certain constituencies, and if you could explain what that constituency is, that would be
great, too.
Nov/ Okay. Or, Misha may introduce them if it works better that way. No. All right. Just
come up and say your name for us.
Judy Rhodes/ My name is Judy Rhodes, and I live on Whiting Avenue. I'm in the North end.
I am a gardener. I have had years of difficulty with the deer in my backyard. I do not
live on a ravine. I live on a City corner. And I frequently see the deer all the time. I
have served on this Committee because I wanted to, very selfishly, find a way to allow
myself to continue doing my gardening, and limit the damage that has occurred. The
damage that has occurred is not necessarily so monetarily evident. What is the value of
a 20-year-old rhododendron, or a magnolia that was planted for my mother? Those
things are all very personal sorts of things. When I began on the Committee, there
were people who were very much concerned about the lives of the individual deer, the
value they have for the community. My response was, to them, my plants have a right
to be there, also. My yard is protected by the City from other people's dogs. It's
protected if there is a stray raccoon who comes in, as many times has happened up
there. I've had to have police come up and shoot them on my driveway, a sick
raccoon. But there's no protection for me. And, so that's how I began. I have come a
long way. I believe our plan is an excellent one. Thank you.
Nov/ Thank you.
Douglas Jones/ I'm Douglas Jones. I am a resident of 816 Park Road, and it's a
neighborhood where prior to two years ago, I never saw deer. And this year, for the
first time, the deer ate my beans. So, I know that I see personal evidence of a
population increase. My primary reason for being on the Committee is that I am the
Conservation Chair of the Iowa City area group of the Sierra Club, and in that
capacity, one of my primary concerns has been the overall balance of the native
ecosystem in Iowa City. In talking about deer management, and reading the deer
management reports from numerous other cities and towns that have gone through a
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//8 page 2
similar experience, it's interesting to note that very few others have really mentioned
the question of protecting the native ecosystem from what amounts to over-grazing, or
should I say over-browsing, because deer are browsers. But, we see informally, and I
think it could be justified on the evidence of scientific study, real evidence of the
effects of over-grazing or over-browsing, on areas where the deer population is high.
And that evidence is evidence of real destruction of the balance of the native
ecosystem. As a result of that kind of reasoning, it's easy for me to talk about
controlling the numbers of deer somehow. The hard part is to arrive at a reasonable
compromise that balances the interests of all of the different people in Iowa City, and
we have a very diverse community in this area. And having gone through the exercise
of looking at all of the options, and looking at the way various communities in the
Midwest have handled them, including communities in Minnesota and Illinois, as well
as Iowa, I stand solidly behind both the process that the DNR suggested the City
undertake, and the conclusions that process has reached.
Nov/ Thank you.
Norton/ Thank you.
Jan Ashman/ My name is Jan Ashman. I live on the southeast side of Iowa City. I guess I
would be representing the Johnson County Humane Society, and the Iowa Federation
of Humane Societies. I watched the process that the Kent Park Deer Committee went
through. It was pretty frustrating. As a member of this Committee, there were times
that were frustrating, but for very different reasons. When they did this stuff out at
Kent Park, people weren't allowed to ask questions. And they really weren't allowed
to say very much. There certainly were questions that were absolutely taboo. In this
Committee, one of the frustrating things was, we had to listen to everybody. And so
everybody got to say what they wanted to say, and I found that very refreshing. And
despite the fact that we represent very many different views, I think we all respect one
another, after hearing what everybody had to say. One of my biggest concerns about
this whole process was that if animals have to die, the manner in which they are
dispatched be the most humane manner possible. I would like to think that as a
community, we value and treasure our flora and fauna, and I hope that we can continue
to do so. Thank you for the opportunity.
Nov/ Thank you.
Bud Louis/ Bud Louis. I guess I was here a couple of years ago about the deer, and I've been
on the Committee. I missed two of the meetings. Before I go any further, I want to
tell you that the deer played right into the hands of Channel 2 tonight. They came up
and they, I mean they came up to see if they could see the deer, and the deer came
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right up and so if you watch Channel 2 at 10:00, you'll see the deer. And I pointed out
the 800-foot row of arborvitae that the deer had eaten. I pointed out that my good
neighbor Margie here, lost a lot of, right up close to their house, to the deer, and there
was a very real problem. Now, my question tonight, did I hear a rumor that the DNR,
it was not going to approve the Committee's suggestion of the rifle use without
experienced, of, you know the policemen that were going to shoot them with rifles,
was that something the DNR is going to disapprove? Did I hear that?
Nov/ We don't know yet.
Thornberry/ We're waiting to see.
Nov/ We're going to submit it to the DNR, and they're going to answer whether or not they
approve.
Louis/
Where did that rumor, I wonder, come? Because my question there is, they've
attended every one of our meetings, and they were there from the very first, and if they
weren't going to approve that method, I wish they'd have said something on the very
first meeting, and saved a lot of chatter. Now Cedar Rapids, I guess, has gone to bow
and arrow, and found it very successful, provided you have experienced bowmen. You
can't take everyone that, who owns a bow and arrow. But it has to be really
experienced men, and I guess they're having some success with that. But I'd be very
surprised if the DNR's going to cancel, they've been to every meeting, and I wondered
why they'd wait till it was all over to --
Nov/ Bud, the DNR representatives who were part of this Committee, who were at these
meetings, were local, or regional representatives.
Louis/ I see.
Nov/ They still need approval from the State level and from the top level. And we're going
to submit it and see how it works.
Thornberry/ There you go, Bud, believing what you read in the paper again.
Louis/
I should know. But anyway, the deer are healthy. They're multiplying. They're
eating, and they're reproducing, and there'll be twice that many again next year. So,
we'll do what we have to do. Thank you.
Thornberry/ You still have your, still have your herds, do you?
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Louis/ Yeah, there's probably 90 on the peninsula, or more than that, I guess.
Nov/ Yeah.
Louis/ They're in the television tonight.
Thornberry/ All right.
Nancy
Seiberling/ I'm Nancy Seiberling. I live at 209 Black Springs Circle, overlooking the
peninsula across the river. I was very impressed with the way this Committee
performed. Everybody seemed to be enormously dedicated to coming to a conclusion
that would be appropriate, and to face up to the needed questions, and it was a
marvelous experience for me to see how, the great struggle, the difficulty. There were
many different points of view, from all ranges, and how this came together with some
ideas, and shall I say possibilities that can be considered. I think the feeling that it
does represent a considered judgment of people who had to face up to a difficult
problem. For some it was much more difficult than others. For me, I think it's my
New England upbringing, perhaps. I was always taught there was a place for
everything, and everything in its place. That goes for deer, not in the City. Thank
you.
Steve Hendrix/ I'm Steve Hendrix. I'm, I guess, the token ecologist on the Committee. I'm
in the Department of Biological Sciences here at the University, and my interest in
serving on the Committee stemmed from the levels of damage to the natural plant
communities that I've observed in the Iowa City area, due to the very large number of
deers, and that's why I was interested in participating in this process.
Norm Scott/ Hi, my name's Norm Scott. I live at 1401 Ash, Iowa City. I'm a sportsman. I
hunt and I fish. And I think you ought to go along with the DNR on this, with the bow
and arrow hunt. Because I've hunted deer with a rifle, and you've got a herd of deer
out there, you shoot one deer, they scatter like a covey of quail. And where do they
go? They go right back up into the houses. I've been with guys with bow and arrow,
just watch them shoot. They shoot the deer, the deer wanders off a few yards, and
dies. And I want to know one thing. Are you going to have these sharpshooters go
through a course? Deer, gun, or both. I think you ought to pick the best shots you can
get.
Nov/ It is true that they will have to be trained shooters. Either bow and arrow, or rifle.
Either one will have to be well-trained.
Scott/ All right. And another thing, you going to start shooting these deer, when, in January?
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Thornberry/ We don't know. We're going to wait for the DNR.
Scott/ There's another thing. You're up there with them high-powered rifles, .30-'06, .270s,
they'll go right through a deer, hit that frozen ground, where's that bullet going to go?
Thornberry/ We were thinking more along the lines of shotgun.
Scott/ You won't get a clean kill.
Norton/ No.
Thornberry/ We don't know that.
Nov/ We really haven't --
Scott/ I hunt deer with shotgun, and I hunt deer with rifle. I go to Wisconsin. I can kill a
deer cleaner with a rifle than I can with a shotgun shell. At a hundred yards, your
shell loses its killing power velocity.
Nov/ Well, we'll --
Thornberry/ These deer are so tame, you can do it from 20 yards.
Scott/ But like I say, you fire one time and they're gone.
Thornberry/ Yeah.
Scott/ You have five deer there, and you maybe only get one.
Thornberry/ Yeah.
Scott/ You've got bow and arrow hunters there, you'll probably wipe out three or four of the
five.
Thornberry/ Tough putting a silencer on a shotgun, isn't it?
Scott/Yeah. But they get used to that, too. They make 'em. You know, they ain't dummies,
that's why we've got so many.
Thornberry/ That's right.
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Nov/
Thank you, Mr. Scott. Have we heard from those on the Deer Management Committee
who are in the room? Okay. I will also say that there were representatives on this
Committee from the City of Coralville, and from Johnson County. They were not all
City residents. We tried to be as regional as we could.
Thornberry/ And I would like to say that the DNR was well-represented on that, they were at
the meetings also, and taking their time, and they attended all the meetings, and spent a
lot of time with the Committee.
Nov/ Is there anyone else who would like to talk about this report?
Grace Trifaro/ My name is Grace Trifaro, and I'm the spokesperson for Citizens for Animal
Rights and the Environment.
Nov/ Grace, come back a little bit, a few inches from the microphone.
Trifaro/ Sure. I live at 902 North Dodge Street, and I attended approximately five or six of
these meetings. I, unfortunately, was not able to attend the last couple of meetings,
due to family obligation. First of all, I would like to say I was impressed at the
amount of work that was put into looking at the ethical implications of killing deer in
the City. I think a lot of people on the Committee were concerned, and did make a
genuine effort to look at issues regarding cruelty to the deer. I look through the
Comprehensive Management Plan, and reviewed it with Citizens for Animal Rights and
the Environment, and do have some concerns regarding the plan. First of all, I think
that there's a real problem in the City regarding education, and I value the first
paragraph in the plan regarding developing a comprehensive educational program to
live with deer and other wildlife peacefully, because I think we have a problem of
intolerance. Anyone who advocates shooting animals, whether they're raccoons, or
squirrels, or deer, because they consider them pests, aren't really understanding other
sentient beings that we live in the city. The fact is we do have other wildlife in this
City, and we really have got to sensitize ourselves to their needs. Regarding the deer,
I've always looked at this in a more holistic way, and I don't think shooting or killing
the deer is going to resolve the problem. This is something that I have brought up at
other task force meetings at Kent Park. This is something that a lot of animal rights
groups are battling at the State level. That's why Citizens for Animal Rights and the
Environment do not support a plan that advocates killing the deer, whether it's bow-
hunting or sharpshooting, or trap-and-kill which is considered very inhumane. Bow-
hunting, as we know, has a high crippling and wounding rate, and is not an effective
means of controlling the deer. Unfortunately, with sharpshooting, and trap-and-kill,
we don't have any video footage of the effects of this on the animals. This is
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something that's being debated within the animal movement. We feel that if the City
should go ahead and sharpshoot and trap-and-kill the animals, we believe that video
footage should be taken, to allow viewers to see the nature of this kind of lethal means.
We would advocate investigating the option of deer immuno-contraceptions, within the
City limits. We're at some really wonderful breaking points regarding immuno-
contraceptions. There are studies being done in the city, in city limits, out east, and I
understand the task force members are in contact with the Humane Society specialist
Allen Rutberg, and we encourage the City Council to look into this method, as well as
implementing a comprehensive educational program, and working with the Department
of Transportation to install warning signs and reflectors to prevent deer-vehicle
accidents. This was done on Dubuque street, and it's been quite successful. So, our
position is that we do not advocate a plan that incorporates the killing of the deer. And
if the City should go ahead with the sharpshooting, and trap-and-kill, we strongly urge
that video footage be taken of this, because this is something that has not been seen.
It's not allowed. We do have video footage of bow hunting. It's quite cruel, and in
this case, we think that it should be the same for sharpshooting and trap-and-kill.
Thank you.
Nov/ Thank you.
Thornberry/ I would like to say, there are many environmental groups, all over the world,
that protect animals, and advocate thinning of herds for their own protection, for their
own good, for over-grazing, for a lot of different things. And I'm sure that you would
not prohibit my setting mousetraps in my garage, in the fall, to catch the mice that
come in.
Trifaro/ There's humane traps. You can catch mice and release them.
Thornberry/ They're not strong enough. Mousetraps you know, sometimes catch a leg, and -
- but, there are environmental groups around the world that promote thinning of herds
for their own well-being. And I do now know, I guess one of the questions I'll ask one
of the DNR gentlemen is that, is there, one of the questions I've got, is there any
evidence of sick deer in the City limits? Are there any evidence, does Misha or the
DNR or anybody, look for evidence of deer ticks on deer killed by automobiles, or
whether they just die. Are there a lot of ticks? Because the deer ticks can infect
human beings, too. And the deer that we're talking about now are not deer that are
coming in from Illinois, or Wisconsin or Michigan, or even the County. They're born
and bred in Iowa City, and they're urban deer. And some urban lawns are just not
suitable to maintain the deer as they should. And the last thing that I want to bring up
is that the deer really have no predators in town, other than automobiles. And to
eliminate any predators, I mean I'm not advocating instituting wolves, or packs of
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coyotes, or whatever kill deer in the natural setting, so we've got to do something
environmentally protective of the species of urban deer, I believe here.
Trifaro/ Again, we would support a plan that would investigate immuno-contraception as an
option. And also, one thing that's missing from this plan is a plan to investigate the
impact of over-development in the City on wildlife habitat. And that's something that
was brought up during the task force meeting, and I didn't see it on here, and I urge
the Committee to add that on here, because what we're doing to the environment does
impact the animal populations, including the deer. Thank you.
Nov/ Thank you.
Theresa Sladek/ Good evening. My name is Theresa Sladek, and I live at 2109 1 Street. I
never used to hunt, and a few years ago I took a blackpowder, which for those of you
that aren't familiar with it --
Nov/ Excuse me. You have to talk to the microphone. If you turn sideways, we can't record
this.
Sladek/ It's like the old buckskinners where they pour the powder down the barrel, and then
they put the bullet in and then they shoot it. It's, they are extremely accurate. I have
dropped a deer at about 70 yards flat. My husband shoots blackpowder, and he bow-
hnnted years before that. There are ethical hunters, and there are unethical hunters.
My parents used to use snowmobilers, and an area got closed because some people
went in where they weren't supposed to. It wasn't my parents, but they paid for it.
And this is going to happen in any situation, anywhere, anytime. There's going to
always be one bad apple that's going to spoil it. At the turn of the century, there were
almost no deer in Iowa. They were almost extinct. And because of the DNR's
involvement, there were three herds. There was one in Missouri, one in Illinois, and
one in Minnesota, and a very, very small herd in Iowa, that were privately, held, and
that's where all of our deer have come from, that we have now. The does that are born
in the fall, or in the spring, generally have one fawn that fall. They're bred right
away. The next year, they have two, and they have two fawns almost every year. The
genetics now are leaning towards having triplets. So, you can figure on how fast this
thing's going to explode. They are in a confined area. As Dean Thornberry said, the
lawns that we use to keep our manicured, nicely shaven lawns, so pedicured properly,
the deer just can't survive on that. That's not what they can eat. So, is it more
humane, and if you use the proper arrow and you make sure that you're close, a good
bow-hunter will make sure that it's a kill. And the deer can run a hundred yards and
be deader than a doornail, and not even know it. Mine generally go 20 to 30 yards.
They, and they're down, and they don't know what hit 'em. In fact, they don't even
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know what I am. I've had them stand there and bob their head up and down while I'm
pulling my rifle up, because they don't know what I am. So, they didn't even know
what hit 'em. They didn't know I was even there. And that's hard. If any of you
have ever gone out into a wild, not inside city limits, but if you've ever gone out into
the country and tried to sneak up on a deer, you'll never do it. Not if, you lcnow, you
have to figure out, number one, where the deer are going, where they're going to
come, and you have to wait for them to come to you. And this is how my husband and
I hunt. Other people have other ways. There's other people that take shotguns, and
they put people in trees, and they drive the deer through. And, okay, for me, my
opinion, I don't feel it's right, but other people do it, and that is a way, only because I
can just feel their fear from being run and harassed. But deer are smart. How many
hunters have gone by, and take a look around, and here's the ten-point buck standing
there going the other way. And they just saw him up here. He went back here and
around, went around everybody. Hunting season starts, all the deer move into Eldon
Moss's backyard and eat his dairy feed, you know? And that's real hard on him,
because they eat all of his crops, but he's inside City limits, basically. And you can sit
on his back porch and basically pet 'em because they're right up there, basically, eating
his livelihood's food.
Nov/ Mr. Louis has them on the back porch, also.
Sladek/ Deer are not stupid. You have to be smarter than them in order to get one.
Unfortunately, like you said, too, there are no wolves. We could always import 'em.
Minnesota has tried that, up by International Falls, and the farmers are a little
outraged, and every now and then they find a wolf hanging on a fence because their
livestock has been killed. And there has to be an equal balance. There has to be. But
we moved in, and we took over. We're still having children. And I can understand
this lady's point of view, you know. And I can respect her for having a strong opinion
and standing by it. But we're still having children, and for every child that a person
has, there's going to be another family, so that means another house. That means more
area gone for habitat. Something's got to be done, and unless they can find a
contraceptive that's permanent, that they'll never have another fawn again, trying to
chase them around every year is nuts.
Nov/
Contraceptive use is part of the plan, and we don't know yet how effective it's going to
be, but it is going to be something that we will try, as soon as we know that we can do
it effectively.
Sladek/ I need to get going.
Nov/ Is there anyone else who wants to talk about this?
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Drew Dillman/ My name is Drew Dillman. I'm a plastic surgeon at Mercy Hospital. I live
on 7 Gilmore Court. And I wanted to make two separate points, as a homeowner, and
as a taxpayer. First, as a homeowner, I noted in the paper that it had been discovered
that it was legal to discharge arrows in Iowa City, and that there might be changes
made in that. I, myself, derive a great deal of enjoyment, as does my son-in-law, and
other friends of mine, using our own property, our own backyards, discharging
arrows. In 150 years of Iowa City history, no one has been injured, no harm has been
done by this, it's quiet. I find it very relaxing and Zen-like to do that, and I might say
that Lao Tse said that government is best that governs least, that makes no needless
laws. And I see, this is something that I see, it's done no harm, it's being done, and I
see no reason to outlaw a practice that is enjoyed very much by many of us, and adds
greatly to our enjoyment of our property, especially if there's been no complaints or
anything like that about it. Secondly, as a taxpayer, it, as, as I understand the situation
with the deer herd, it's necessary to remove about one-half of the does every year, in
order to maintain a constant population. And that's not just a one-time thing, that has
to go on year after year in order to maintain a steady state, which is what we would
like to do, is have the amount of deer that can safely live, and helpfully live, in our
City, so that we can enjoy them. We certainly wouldn't want to have no deer, or at
least I wouldn't. But we don't want to have so many that they're both disturbing our
neighbors, or that it's unhealthy for them. That's going to be an ongoing expense. As
a taxpayer, if there's a way to do that for free, versus paying someone to come in and
do it, then I would much rather not have us incur a needless added expense. And it
looks to me, just from an economic standpoint, that there are bow-hunters that are
skilled and anxious to do that, that will do it for free, why should we pay to have some
other method done? Thank you very much.
Thornberry/ I agree with your comments, and Karen Kubby brought up a point last night that
I wholeheartedly support. That being, shooting a weapon at night, or in the evening,
or early morning, in a neighborhood, in the city limits, discharging of a weapon at
night, what effect is that going to have on the children, on people that are afraid of
guns, just the noise itself, the shooting of a high-powered rifle, or shotgun, or
whatever it may be, may cause some people a lot of consternation.
Dillman/ Legitimately so, as this other gentleman pointed out, a high-powered rifle can glance
off bone, off of bones, or other ways, and a shotgun would have less danger in that
way, and certainly an arrow would have very much less danger that way.
Thornberry/ There are arrows that they use. It's not just the little pointed arrow that they use
to shoot deer. It's an arrow meant to kill a deer. I mean, they have deer arrows, I
guess.
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Dillman/ That's right. And that's another good point to understand. The arrows that are
used for target-practice, such as I do in my backyard, would be very unlikely to do
serious damage in that they have a target-point. But the deer, the arrows that are used
to kill a deer are specifically designed for that with a wide, very sharp point, that cuts
very much like a razor blade does, actually. And the effect of that is that it, if you've
ever had a razor cut, well, it's not a very painful cut, generally. I mean, they bleed
freely, but they are not, they're surprisingly painless because of the sharpness of the
cuts.
Thornberry/ That's why I grew a beard.
Dillman/ That's right. Same here. Thank you.
Thornberry/ Thank you.
Bettina Bourjaily/ My name is Bettina Bourjaily. I've just recently moved to Iowa City. I
understand something about hunting. I've done it myself. I managed a large piece of
wildlife land that now belongs to the state of Iowa, so I know the habits of hunters,
deer, predators, poachers, and you name it. And I agree with everyone here. The
only thing is, I realize we have a problem in Iowa City, and one thing I've discovered
since I moved here is that there is a kind of unrealistic attitude that if you remove an
animal, you don't have a problem anymore. But you just keep the same habitat. So, I
would think that, you know, that you're on the right track to controlling the deer. The
problem's only going to get worse. Last year, there were 540 deer at the DNR's
count. This year, they're going to add 200 to 250 more to that. But, I do want to
speak out very strenuously against sharpshooters. I know something about guns, and
that's why I don't have one. There's no way that you can gun deer down within the
City limits, and have it be a safe practice. Particularly if you use rifles. They have
something like a two-mile range. They can glance off everything, and if you, if it's
done at night, jacklighting these deer, means they will move out of the light area
immediately. They might be wounded, and there's no way to follow a wounded deer.
The bow-hunters on the other hand, are really very careful people, and I'm not
addressing the moral issue here at all. I think, and they have to pass bow-hunting
safety. And I've never known of anybody, any bystander, or any incident of a bow-
hunter injuring a person. And yet, there are many, many incidents of guns, even in the
hands of people who presumably knew how to handle them, injuring people. I would
not like, there are deer in my neighborhood, but I would not like to see gunpower
break out on Beldon Avenue. Because I don't think it's safe. And if you have a, if
you're a sharpshooter, you're on the ground, you're on the level of your prey. If
you're a bow-hunter, you're up above it. You're shooting down. Your range is very,
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very limited. And about the trap and, bait and kill. I guess it's humane. It's a very
slow process. If Iowa City genuinely wants to get rid of its deer, then please eliminate
sharpshooters, and allow bow-hunters to do it, because they are more responsible
people. They do it in the daytime. They choose their target, and if they are
responsible as they presumably will be, they will shoot well. With all due respect to
the guys who do sharpshooting, the police officers and so forth, I've seen, out in the
country occasionally when something had to be destroyed, I've seen this, I've seen
them go after a pack of wild dogs or something, and it sounds like war. One shot does
not kill an animal, even if you're a very good shot, usually, and at night, it's not good.
Furthermore, jacklighting is something that we have weeded out as a criminal activity
in this area, very carefully. The former game warden did a lot of covert work, because
it was done with high-powered rifles from moving vehicles, at night, endangering
livestock, endangering people. And I think if you allow any kind of gun activity in
Iowa City, you are sending the wrong message to a criminal element who would be just
too happy to start jacklighting deer and say oh, well, it got away, you know, it got
away from the people who were supposed to shoot it. And also, I don't think the rattle
of gunfire is a very good thing to hear on our streets. And it would be a rattle. And
believe me, it would be a rattle. It wouldn't be an occasional shot. So, the moral issue
completely aside, if the deer need to be controlled, this is an ongoing problem. This is
going to be year after year after year after year. The plan has to be well-thought-out,
and it has to satisfy a great number of people and take care of the animals as well.
Thank you.
Nov/ Thank you.
Kubby/ Can we have someone from the Committee talk a little about why the
recommendation was to do this at night?
Thornberry/ I think that the answer to the question of shooting instead of bow-hunting was the
humane issue.
Norton/ Yeah.
Kubby/ That wasn't my question.
Jones/
I think I can speak to some of this. In the first place, the proposed sharpshooting
methods are not methods which are untried. We're, the, in Illinois, the only urban
deer control which is allowed is sharpshooting. It's done routinely in many of the
Chicago suburbs, and the Chicago, the Illinois Department of Conservation, it's not the
same name as we have, they don't call it the DNR, they do not approve any other
method of urban wildlife, of urban deer control. And they have not had the kinds of
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Nov/
serious incidents which people are describing. I think one of the reasons is that
sharpshooting is not just jacklighting, where you go on the back of your pickup truck
with a high-powered rifle, bouncing down the back roads with a spotlight, trying to
startle some deer and shoot them. It's done with a controlled range. The best example
I've seen is one Minnesota community where they surveyed the homeowners in tile
neighborhood, and they only set up a sharpshooting range if all of the surrounding
homeowners, not merely the homeowners on whose property it was being done, but the
neighbors' neighbors all agreed that it was acceptable. And they selected sites, also in
terms of physical safety. You don't set your bait on the top of the hill and then shoot
over the horizon. You set your bak at the base of a ravine, and shoot from a stand if
necessary, so that you're shooting into the dirt. And shooting into a backdrop which is
inspected in advance for safety, so that you know that it's something that bullets will
not be prone to ricocheting off. You don't use an old quarry with a rock facing back.
This is done that way. In the Minnesota communities which I think set the best
example in terms of deer management plans that are comparable to what I think will
work in Iowa City, they've had to use mixtures of approaches. In many cases, bow-
hunting has been a component of it. But bow-hunting doesn't really work in areas
where there are large numbers of even moderate-sized lots, because if you use the
regulations which Waterloo uses for bow-hunting, and I think those regulations are
extremely well thought out, the Waterloo regulations require the consent of the
occupant or owner of every structure within 200 yards of the site where the hunter, of
tile hunter's stand. That consent is easy to obtain if the lots are on the order, are eight-
acres. An eight-acre lot solves the problem. If you have four-acre lots, you're not
going to, you have to deal with four different property owners. If you have quarter-
acre lots, you're talking about an incredible number of people, all of whom have to
agree. Not merely a majority. All of whom have to agree. And for that reason, bow-
hunting cannot work in a fully-developed neighborhood. We know that deer have had
fawns in Manville Heights this summer. I only believe one, I only know of one, but
still, a fawn in Manville Heights is an example of a neighborhood where we don't have
large open spaces. There are, however, within half a block of my house, two locations
I can think of which would make safe sharpshooting ranges, based on my
understanding of how it's done, and based on my understanding of the prerequisites for
that. I wouldn't be terribly excited to have someone shooting off guns half a block
from my house. On the other hand, we do need to control the deer. And I can't
imagine in my neighborhood, finding a way to get the consent of everyone in a one-
block area to have a bow-hunter station himself in the middle of that same ravine. That
ravine, of course, is the backyard of a large number of houses. It's not a single parcel
of land. But to a deer, it's single place where deer can feel very comfortable.
Doug, a point of clarification. The way I read the map, I don't think that was an area
that was advocated.
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Jones/
No, but I suspect that if the deer keep doing what deer do, and the figures that this
woman gave for deer's reproductive capacity are quite accurate, a yearling will have a
fawn, and two-year-olds are going to have twins. This is what deer do. I suspect that
if deer keep doing this, we're going to be seeing Finkbine Golf Course needing to
undertake regular deer control measures of some kind, and I suspect that the m'ea
behind the, behind Carver-Hawkeye Arena is going to require deer control measures
that can be integrated with Finkbine. It's all one large landowner there, but I suspect
that Manville Heights is also going to see need a few years down the road as the
population continues to assert itself in our town.
Nov/ But I just wanted everyone to be clear that it is not in the current plan.
Jones/ That's right. The current plan, because Manville Heights right now does not have a
problem. However, the peninsula across the river does. And --
Kubby/ And excuse me, before you go on, I had asked that someone come up and answer a
question about why at night? Why couldn't this be done late afternoon, when there's
still daylight hours, and we wouldn't, we'd still do the baits, why would we need the
lights then?
Jones/
The communities that have done it, have done it at night, primarily, simply because the
use of spotlights, plus bait, is even more effective than bait alone. And in terms of the
number, in terms of the efficiency of the sharpshooting effort, cost is a real concern.
And the cost is addressed --
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-145 SIDE A
Jones/ This is quite properly considered slaughter, and should not be viewed as something
that can be compared with sport, because it is not in any sense sport.
Kubby/ Why is it more effective to have the light, wouldn't the deer avoid that?
Jones/ Deer seem to be easily, part of it has to do with making the deer less aware of the
presence of the sharpshooter.
Kubby/ To blind them.
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Jones/
Yeah. They see the bait, they're comfortable with the bait, and they come in. This
works in the Minnesota communities that have done it, and in many cases, the most
effective long-term deer control measures seem to involve combinations of methods,
and not a single method.
Norton/ Does that combination include bows? For example, in the Minnesota communities
that use sharpshooting, do they also use some bow and arrow?
Jones/
Some of them also use controlled bow hunts in certain areas. Frequently, what
happens is that the controlled bow hunting is being done in areas where the parcel sizes
of the real estate are large, and in areas that have a semi-wild character. And the, in
fact, our plan talks about cooperating with the DNR to control the deer population in
what we legally call the urban fringe, the area legally outside of the city limits. I
strongly support the creation of a special deer management zone on the north side
fringe area, because the deer outside of Iowa City are a significant issue. If we control
the urban herd without controlling, without successfully controlling the herd in the area
immediately north of the City limits, we'll have a constant overflow into the City and
will basically be doing their deer control for them, that I think could reasonably be
handled by bow hunting.
Norton/ One final, or nothing's final I guess, or to me, nothing's final, but one question that
concerned me. Has any communities of roughly the size of Iowa City, done any of
these methods over a long enough period of time to know, I mean, does it get the job
done? We're talking about taking 109 and that number of does, and is it really
working in any community?
Jones/ Your turn?
Misha Goodman-Herbst/ Let me answer Karen's question first.
Kubby/ Would you introduce yourself?.
Goodman-Herbst/ Yes, Misha Goodman-Herbst, Director of Animal Control. All of the
programs that we've looked at so far have taken place at night. It may be possible to
do it at other times. I think it's done at night, for one reason, because people aren't
around. The deer are more active at certain times, and certain areas, and that's just the
way these plans have been set up. So that's what we looked at. It might be possible to
try it at different time, at dusk or at sunrise, and everything.
Norton/ Now, I was concerned, have any communities done it over long enough a period of
time to know, is it working?
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Goodman-Herbst/ Yeah. There are some communities that have done sharpshooting for over
twelve years, that we looked at. One of the reasons why we chose sharpshooting,
somebody said for humane reasons. That was one of the reasons, but one of the other
reasons was, sharpshooting, is very effective in reducing a large population of deer
initially, okay? And then bow hunting, after everything we read, may maintain that,
but sharpshooting was more effective overall in reducing a larger number of population
initially.
Nov/ Thank you.
Kubby/ And what is the dynamics there? I mean that one person is telling us that you have
deer coming towards the bait. You have a few bow-hunters that can get more than one
at once. Sharpshooters, you get one and then they scatter. What is the dynamic?
Goodman-Herbst/ Sharpshooters, as far as I understand, and I've read the plans that these
other cities have accomplished, sharpshooters, can get more than one, also. It depends
on how many people you have shooting, how many deer you have coming to the
location, and in a lot of these cases, deer may be smart, but they'll leave the area,
they'll come right back to it also, to return to feeding.
Thornberry/ That's not that smart.
Vanderhoef/ Misha, would you just comment then, on the plan for using of deer meat, and
how this might happen in our community?
Goodman-Herbst/ Actually, I'd like Lisa to do that.
Lisa Handsaker/ I'm Lisa Handsaker. I was on the Committee, from the City Manager's
Office. We are looking at the Salvation Army has expressed interest in being the
central station in Iowa City to distribute the meat to agencies in town. So, we are
hoping, Ruzicka's Locker has given us a very good price. It's a cut-rate, so that we
can forward the meat on to people who could use it.
Vanderhoef/ And this is more feasible with the sharpshooter, in being able to process --
Handsaker/ Well, if bow and arrow hunters were allowed, they would keep the meat, is my
understanding.
Thornberry/ It'd be their own.
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Vanderhoef/
Thornberry/
Vanderhoef/
Well, if there were sharpshooter bow-hunters?
Sharpshooting bow-hunters?
In a stand, just like where you were suggesting --
Handsaker/ The hunters would keep the meat. One of the incentives for them to pay for a tag
is that they'll end up with something in the end.
Nov/ And what do the tags cost?
Handsaker/ Twenty dollars?
??/ How about twenty-five?
Handsaker/ Twenty-five dollars. If the City performs this procedure, we will not pay for
each deer that is killed. We do not have to pay the DNR for that.
Thornberry/ Now, I think what Dee is asking is, if we get these sharpshooters, that the deer
are going to go to the rendering plant and have all this done, couldn't the sharpshooters
be using bows instead of guns, and the same thing happen with the meat? I mean, just
because they're shot with a bow doesn't mean that it can't be rendered and given to --
Handsaker/ No, that's correct.
Norton/ Yeah.
Thornberry/ So, they could, in effect, be shot with a bow.
Handsaker/ Yes.
Baker/ Actually, an arrow, but--
Handsaker/ Yes. And I guess we didn't address if the City would hire people to be
sharpshooting bow and arrow hunters, so to speak. If the DNR would charge us. I
don't know if that's significant or not, but I don't know if we'd have to pay for tags,
since we're following their hunting guidelines.
Lehman/ Lisa, I'm sure you talked about this, but sharpshooters with bow and arrows would
take, I would think, a significantly smaller number of deer, and perhaps not even be
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able to keep up with the rate by which deer reproduce. I mean it would take a lot of
bow and arrow hunting.
Handsaker/ Yes, it would.
Lehman/ To begin to get the number of deer that sharpshooters would.
Handsaker/ Looking at the studies, it was our conclusion that you can take out greater
numbers of deer in a shorter amount of time with an intense sharpshooting effort, yes.
Lehman/ I think a lot more deer.
Handsaker/ Well, I can't quote you numbers.
Lehman/ Someone told me that last night that Cedar Rapids started the 12th of October, and
as of last night, they've taken one deer.
Handsaker/ Yes.
Lehman/ That's one deer in 11 days.
Handsaker/ They also have folks that have yet to complete the certification, the proficiency
testing, the courses, and so on, so they haven't, their effort isn't underway in earnest.
Norton/ Is that Cedar Rapids, or Marion we're talking about?
Handsaker/ It's actually a Linn County plan, I believe.
Judy Rhodes/ I'd like to speak a little bit to the success of any deer management program.
We looked at a number of reports from Minnesota, especially the suburbs around
Minneapolis, and they have been giving very careful thought to what they do. The
Minnetonka program is the one that does the sharpshooting that Doug referred to that is
very good, and I would recommend that you take a look at that program because it's
extremely well planned out. The truth about the deer success is that every report will
tell you that it works some years, and it doesn't work other years. It has to do with
how much snow we have, how many days in the wintertime that are blizzards, there
are some years when the sharpshooters can get a lot, other years when they don't do
very well. There are some places where bow hunters do better than sharpshooters.
There is evidence in the Minnetonka program, that in the areas where sharpshooters are
using bait, regardless of whether it's bow or gun, the animal rights people have begun
feeding the deer in other places. And you can't stop that, so deer don't go to the deer
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anymore. The program can fall apart. It isn't like we can have one simple solution. It
will be, need to be reconsidered every single year. The other factor that's involved is
that our community has a rapid turnover in housing. What that means is that if we talk
about the tolerance of the culture, of the people in the area for the deer population,
over the years, it's going to change in various areas. As a consequence, you're going
to look at different geographical situations, and decide which is the best method. The
reason this committee rejected bow hunting out of hand, had to do with the effect that
the bow has on the deer. Rightly so, or not, the definition of humane is what we had
our discussions around. And the definition of humane is open to interpretation in a lot
of ways. Hunters will say that shooting with a bow and arrow is very humane. Non-
hunters, people from urban areas who don't know, who've never seen a mouse, much
less a deer before, when it's described that the arrow enters the body, and then there's
a slow blood loss, the deer may bound away a little as this lady had said, that sounds to
them inhumane. We decided that humane, in our situation, for our culture, would be a
quick and painless death. That is why we chose the sharpshoofing. The fact that bow
hunting is quiet is a cultural kind of thing, and it may be that you need to find out from
the conununity which way they want to go. But, if we look at the deer themselves,
there's no question but that when you shoot them in the head, they're dead. And, they
were alive once, and then the next minute, they're not. There's no time in-between if
they're properly hit.
Thornberry/ I would have less problem with hunting with a rifle, in the early morning hours,
or in the evening hours, before people are awakened by the sound of a --
Rhodes/ That's pretty much when the deer are active.
Thornberry/ Yeah. That's when they're most active. And also, you're talking about a what,
a two- or three-block area. How long, or how far does the sound of a rifle, especially
at night, travel? You know, the sound travels a lot, seems like, it may not, but it
seems like it, you can hear it a longer distance away than in the morning or the
evening. I don't know if that's --
Lehman/ No competing sound.
Rhodes/ The area where I live is populated in such a way that the DNR has said that there's
really no way to allow bow hunting in my area. They probably would recommend
trap-and-kill. It is a legal method at the present time. But if they have to look at my
area as an area to control deer, that's probably the way they would find as the most
effective, because you're going to need to kill one deer at a time.
Thornberry/ Yeah. Thanks.
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Dennis Jennings/ My name's Dennis Jennings. I live in Johnson County, I don't live here in
Iowa City. My mother does. I did until a few years ago. I'm the Vice President of
the Iowa Wild Turkey Federation, past President. You're going to have the same
trouble with turkeys in a few years. Just letting you know.
Thornberry/ They're easier to get now?
Jennings/ I'm also a hunter-education instructor. Like they said, the deer feed primarily at
night, early evening, early morning, or late evening, early morning, and during the
night. That's why they're targeting night time as the time to do this. Jacklighting and
baiting are against the law in the State of Iowa, and it's not a very good example for us
to be setting for young hunters. Other people that are taking hunter-education, I have a
real problem with you doing that. I think the City has better things to do with their
money than pay for processing deer, to pay for sharpshooters, and to pay for baiting.
That's not cheap.
Thornberry/ What do they use for deer? What do you use for bait?
Jennings/ Mainly corn and alfalfa pellets.
Thornberry/ Not a salt lick, huh?
Jennings/ Salt lick's will work. Not that well. The kind of baiting that they're talking here is
corn and alfalfa. The other thing, with the shooting of deer, not only the noise that
you're going to have around, but it was said before that you need to get permission
from everybody for a bow hnnter, like within 200 yards. You'd better, because of the
noise and everything else, go a hell of a lot further than 200 yards if you're going to be
shooting them with guns.
Nov/ We're going to need permission in either case.
Jennings/ For about a half a mile or three-quarters of a mile around.
Thornberry/ For guns.
Jennings/ Yes. To control the deer, bow hunting probably will not be as effective at
controlling the deer. I'll have to agree with that. But there are things you can do, like
give a two-deer permit, make one deer be a doe before, and make them shoot the doe
first before the hunter can harvest a buck. Sharp arrows are very humane. Starving
deer are not humane, and if you want to see videos of that, I can bring those in. I do
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have some. And don't get it in your head that sharpshooters are going to shoot deer in
the head. That's not going to work. If they're trying to shoot deer in the head, at any
distance at all, they're looking for more ricochets, you're looking at a lot more misses,
and it'll be a lot more expensive. I support the bow hunting, and I'm not a bow
hunter myself, but I just think it's the most reasonable thing for you to do. Thank you.
Nov/ Thank you.
Ashman/I think there seems to be a misconception that this was the deer hunting management
committee. This was the Deer Management Committee. This is not about hunting.
This is about deer control. Our Committee really had not interest in creating a
recreational opportunity for deer hunters within the City limits. I think it's kind of
interesting that there's not a precedent here in Iowa for sharpshooting as a legal method
of deer control, and I think that fact speaks to, unlike some of our contiguous states,
where they have adopted sharpshooting as a lethal method of deer control, we have
allowed our state DNR to perpetuate trophy buck hunting. As we have seen over the
years, this type of wildlife management tends to increase the deer population, since
there is really on incentive for hunters to kill females. And the way you would reduce
your herd, if you wanted to do it in a big hurry, is to kill the females, because that's
where it all happens. I think we need to remember that this situation is not the fault, if
you will, of the DNR. It's not the sole fault of theirs. They work for us. And if we
disagree with their protocols, then it's up to us to clue them in into what we want for
our state's flora and fauna. I think it's as simple as that. Some of our contiguous
states have done this, and maybe it's time for Iowa as kind of a waning agrarian
society, to, you know, come to their senses, too.
Nov/ And I should emphasize this plan is for killing does.
Lehman/ It's not does only is it?
Nov/ Well,--
Thornberry/ I think it probably was antler-less deer.
Nov/ That is the general idea.
Norton/ (Can't understand) deer, and that 20 of them were in a different area, so it depends.
Nov/ Yeah.
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Norton/ Some of 'emsaid 32 deer, 20 does. I mean it wasn't all together does, but
substantially.
Nov/ It also said that we would like to have this happen before the antlers are shed so that we
are more likely to have does killed. It is a population control method, it is not hunting.
Thornberry/ Not a sport. It's not a sport, it's deer management.
Kubby/ Well, in terms of money, too, I mean, when we were, when the Committee talked to
the Police Department, they were talking about $50/deer, which is very much lower
cost than what other communities were seeing. I mean if you had $35/deer for
processing of the slaughtered animal for meat, that's $85/deer plus the bait. And I'm
sure there'll be some other costs, too. So we're getting different kinds of information
about the money.
Thornberry/ You know, I did talk to a veterinarian about this, and asked him which would
be, in his opinion, more humane, bow or rifle. And he was under the impression that,
well, he didn't even think about it very long, he said the bow would bring down the
deer on a mis-hit, for example, faster than would a slug going through a deer in a non-
lethal place, because the arrow would have a tendency to stay in the deer, and it's just
hard to talk about. You know, they've big, round, brown eyes and stuff, you know,
but there's a lot -- you know, my wife isn't real crazy about this, you know. But
anyway, he thought that the bow and arrow shoot, the bow in the deer would kill the
deer more effectively than the bullet, if it were a non-lethal shot.
Norton/ How do you rationalize that with the evidence from the other states? That's what I,
I'm fine that the Committee has explored this in great detail, and surely that issue has
come up.
Thornberry/ Well, if they're sharpshooters, theoretically, they wouldn't have a bad hit.
Lehman/ Well, I agree with you, Dee, I think that I would certainly concur. The Committee
has spent hours, and hours, and hours. This is their recommendation, and I've got a
lot of confidence in what they've come up with.
Thornberry/ Yeah.
Kubby/ Well we can make sure that
Thornberry/ Well, I do, too. I just have problems with the sound, with the --
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Lehman/ I've got problems with the whole thing.
Thornberry/ Yeah.
Nov/ All right. Let's get back to the public hearing. Misha?
Goodman-Herbst/ Hi. I was looking for, looking through some of the sharpshooting details,
and this is in Illinois, and in this particular program of sharpshooters sat on elevated
platforms, similar to bow hunting, shot down at the deer, deer were attracted to bait
sites. They were conditioned to expect food at certain times in certain areas. Expert
marksmen were used to minimize the risk of deer suffering from being wounded. One
of the things that you're talking about with the bow hunting is in the research that we
read that came from hunters and the bow hunting association, we didn't have any bow
information that came from any other source, really. Their own studies show that
there m'en't that many really great bow hunters, to the extent that they're just going to
get it, you know, on the first shot. And everybody talks about wounding rates, and
how there aren't real numbers for wounding rates. But if a hunter believes that he has
hit, or she has hit something, and then they can't find it, you can assume that it was
wounded with one of those sharp bows, right? And those were part of the things we
looked at, was that the effectiveness of bow hunting didn't seem to be terrific. We
didn't, there are a whole bunch of hunters out there, and even though they've been to
this, you know, the safety school, and the bow hunting certification course, their own
write-ups show that they weren't great at it. There were problems. Lots of them. So
those were the other things that we looked at.
Nov/ Is there anyone else who would
Goodman-Herbst/ I don't know what happened to Lisa, she disappeared. I just want to
mention that Lisa, or a gentleman who's been in touch with Lisa, who has developed a
bullet for use in livestock. It was developed for farmers, apparently, so that when they
had to euthanize their own livestock, they wouldn't then kill their other livestock in the
area. And he apparently has developed a bullet that doesn't go any further than an
animal, and so that's something that we've, that we're also researching, that may be
useful to us in this situation.
Lehman/ Is this a rifle shell?
Goodman-Herbst/ Yes.
Lehman/ It is a rifle shell.
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Thornberry/ Like an exploding bullet?
Lehman/ Would it be helpful to us to hear from someone from the DNR?
Goodman-Herbst/ I think it would be.
Lehman/ I guess I've got a couple questions. And this I guess is not from a policy
standpoint, or anything else, but from just a plain harvesting standpoint. Would you
view sharpshooting as a better method of controlling the population than bow and
arrow hunting?
Nov/ And please say your name.
Tim Thompson/ I'm Tim Thompson. I'm the wildlife biologist for the State that serves
Johnson County and some other surrounding counties here, too. I don't know that I
can directly answer that, because I've never sharpshot.
Lehman/ Well I guess, our, at least our, it seems to me our problem is not one of
sportsmanship or hunting, or whatever, it's trying to control what we have apparently
identified as a reasonably, it's a problem that we really can't live with. And if we do
have to manage the number of deer, I guess, if you can't answer, then, which would be
the better method?
Thompson/ I think
Lehman/ Sharpshooting, or bow and arrow?
Thompson/ You've got some different situations scattered throughout the community. In part
of it, you're looking at the community, I think Charlie Duffy at one of our meetings,
threw out the figure that there was 3,300 acres of agricultural land in Iowa City. And
just that figure shows that there's a bunch of land out there that doesn't have houses on
it. And I guess, if I can reflect somewhat, that again, and it was brought up earlier,
the DNR, the article in the paper on Saturday, my division chief, he's going to have his
set attitudes and decisions on certain things, and we're working with the Committee,
the people with the DNR that sat in at the meetings, we were not voting members of
the Committee, but were there to try to, try to help them along and answer questions,
provide information. And I think in our situation, while we do have a lot of different
areas in town, I feel that you should try to keep some various methods open, because
you get on the fringes of the town, and you just, to some of us in the DNR, it doesn't
make sense if it crosses this line, it has to be sharpshot, and if it's on this side, you can
hunt it through other methods.
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Lehman/ Well this isn't --
Thompson/ You know, the deer don't know the difference.
Lehman/ No.
Thompson/ And the countryside isn't any different from this, just because it's in the City
limits in some of those fringe areas. Now, granted, when we get into some of these
highly populated areas, and areas like Judy was talking about, I think the trap-and-kill
is going to be some of our only solutions. And there's probably places where
sharpshooting may be better used than archery hunting. And you've got to realize I'm
not speaking from the Committee now.
Lehman/ No, no.
Thompson/ I think, in most cases we looked at, that if you can safely sharpshoot, you can
probably also safely bow and arrow hunt. And so I don't think safety was a real big
factor there. But there's going to be some areas, one that keeps popping out to me,
and I think the Committee would agree, looking at Hickory Hill. It's surrounded by a
lot of houses, heavily used park, that might be a likely candidate for sharpshooting,
because it would be done when the park users aren't out there. Some of the other
areas, I think the other methods could be used just as effectively. To give you some
ideas, too, on kill rate, we've discussed some of this. Sharpshooting, initially, when
you first start doing it, the deer aren't aware of what's going on. At least the stuff I've
read, you are going to have a higher kill initially. And as time goes on, it's going to
get more difficult to sharpshoot those deer. And by time, I don't mean that maybe the
first night, second night, it may be the second year, third year it gets more difficult.
And the bow and arrow, I think, is probably leaning in the other direction in that you
start out probably slower, because you've got to form relationships between the person
doing the bow and arrow control, and the landowners. And once those relationships
get put in place, it becomes a binding relationship where people come back to the same
property and they have the properties established where there's permission and where
there's the safe distance and everyone's aware of it in there.
Lehman/ I hear what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you. But it seems to be, there's
two different situations. One is maintaining of herd deer, at a certain predetermined
level that is healthy for the deer, and livable for the community. And then you have
another situation where you have way above that number. And I think when you have
way above that number, there needs to be some way of bringing that number down to
the management level. Once you've reached that level, I have, I hear you and I don't
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disagree with you at all. And I think once the deer are brought down to what we
consider to be, or you consider to be the number of deer that the City can have safely,
it's healthy for the deer, it's healthy for the folks in town, that I can see us managing in
a different fashion than bringing that level down to that number. It seems to me that
we're in a position right now where we are so overpopulated that we're interested in
reducing the size of the herd to a manageable number. Is that kind of what I hear? I
mean this is what I've heard for a couple years, or three or four, or whatever, that we
just have too many deer. Not that deer are bad, but that large numbers of deer aren't
really compatible with the folks living in town, and we need to bring them down to that
magic manageable number, and not below that number, just a manageable number.
But I think that, I guess, in my opinion, the method used to bring those down to that
manageable level, might be totally different than the method used to keep them there.
Thompson/ But I think is some cases where you were using multiple methods at the same
time, you may have a better probability of bringing this deer herd down more quickly.
Vanderhoef/ Okay.
Thompson/ And then after it's brought down, then you can narrow it down to what's being
the most effective.
Vanderhoef/ Okay. You mentioned the Hickory Hill Park, which is very interesting at this
point in time. But I wanted to know whether you agree with the Committee's
consensus that there are areas that are over-browsed and that the ecosystem is being
changed?
Thompson/ (Yes).
Vanderhoef/ You do agree?
Thompson/ Yeah, I guess I would also like to say, too, for the fellow people on the
Committee, too, I did think they had a tough job, and they did a good job of coming to
agreement on a lot of issues, too. So, but basically, right, I think I'd like to praise the
Committee for one thing, taking that viewpoint of not just looking at private property
rights that a lot of cities have looked at, but also looking at the ecology of our natural
areas, realizing that we do value these natural areas, and that deer, when they get to a
certain number per square mile, start damaging that ecosystem. And so I believe that
in looking at when we get certain heights, you tend to have ecological damage. You
tend to have property damage, probably property damage to landscapes, shrubs,
flowers, gardens, that occurs at a lower level than what we based our formula on,
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looking at actually the ecological damage starts happening to our, not restoring our
woodlands.
Vanderhoef/ So, did you see any of that reaching that level in Hickory Hill Park, specifically?
Thompson/ I can't remember if that was, I think that was just outside the range for the
counts. The counts, of course, were done last winter.
Vanderhoef/ Right.
Thompson/ And one lady mentioned about adding some deer on, and that was due to the
births that occurred this spring. And so, it's probably likely that that area exceeds the
number that we had planned as a number that we should start being proactive and try to
get that herd down.
Vanderhoef/ That's why I bring this up is that you are mentioning specifically in that Park
that probably the only safe way to cull the herd a bit would be with sharpshooting.
Thompson/ I didn't say the only, but I'd say that might be a situation where it would work
good.
Vanderhoef/ Right.
Thompson/ Trap-and-kill again, could probably work there, too.
Vanderhoef/ But this is, this is a really unique park, and very limited, and very --
Thompson/ And I think that area is much different than north of Interstate 80 --
Vanderhoef/ Certainly.
Thompson/ Or the peninsula, where it's not surrounded by houses.
Vanderhoef/ So, you're agreeing that we definitely could use some sharpshooting in certain
areas, and this would be one of those specific places that the sharpshooting would
probably --
Thompson/ I'm saying that probably, for the DNR to look at it, and I'm talking about the
DNR in Des Moines, if you target some of these areas because of some safety
concerns, and because of the use of the park and some of the things like that, showing
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that that's going to be the only logical choice other than probably, like I said, the trap-
and-kill, if you're going to reduce deer, that would probably be more palatable.
Thornberry/ Have you, or have anybody in the DNR, alfof the'deer that you've seen in this
area, have you seen any evidence of sick deer or deer ticks?
Thompson/ We've had a little bit of Lyme's Disease in the County, but it's hard to say
whether it's been brought in from outside the County. Often, I know my veterinarian
talks about having some dogs with Lyme's Disease, but usually these people have been
northeast of Iowa City, either northeast Iowa, Wisconsin someplace in the previous
month, and have likely probably picked it up at those points. I know there are some
cases that have been diagnosed here. Some of the deer do have the deer ticks. Just
because they have the deer ticks doesn't necessarily mean they're carrying Lyme's
Disease.
Thornberry/ Right.
Thompson/ I wouldn't consider that to be a real big factor in your considerations. And in
terms of sick deer, I think it was about --
Thornberry/ Sick, or malnourished, or --
Thompson/ Yeah, about eight years ago, I think, I can't remember quite, but we had about,
we had some deer up in the Solon area that died, it's not EHT, it's a viral disease, and
we had about a dozen deer, I think, die at that time. And, but that's not very common
usually in Iowa. It happens more often out in western states. That's the only disease
that I'm aware of in the 14 years I've been with the Department.
Lehman/ Our deer are basically very healthy, aren't they?
Thompson/ Right. That's why there' having --
Nov/ They're living in a protected environment.
Norton/ Tim, I have a question. I want to, I want to, this is a question directed to someone
else. First I want to thank you though, and the other people at the DNR, for all the
time you've put in working with the Committee in facing this difficult problem. My
question, now, is directed to perhaps Misha, or somebody else on the Council. You've
identified seven districts for reduction, and my question is, you've indicated in the
resolution, now I'm trying to focus on the resolution we have to deal with, you've
identified those seven areas and suggested sharpshooting, or trap-and-kill. You've not
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indicated any of those areas that the bow hunting might be the right option. Am I
correct that those are all suitable for either sharpshooting by rifle, I take it, and or trap-
and-kill, and not suitable for bow and arrow? Thanks, Tim. I didn't mean to snub
you, but you've got to get off sometime.
Goodman-Herbst/ Yeah, that's all, that's all that we approved. We didn't approve bow
hunting at all in the City, currently, under this plan.
Norton/ Okay.
Goodman-Herbst/ And, yeah, hopefully, I mean there are probably going to be certain areas
within those areas that none of these things are going to be suitable. So, we're going
to have to get out there and --
Norton/ And none of these are final answers. This is all experimental from our point of view,
in some ways, even though it's been done elsewhere, we've got to try it out.
Goodman-Herbst/ Right. We're not their city, so--
Thompson/ Basically, the Committee, we did not go take a tour and look at these areas
physically. Myself and Willy Suchy the deer biologist, and Scott Beckerman, USDA,
we did look at the peninsula, and looked at some of that north side up there, between
basically Dubuque Street over to ACT, just to see if we could get in and out of some of
those situations in terms of whether sharpshooting could be practical.
Norton/ Well, my concern is kind of like this. Suppose we adopt the resolution. Then, we
get into the implementation, and we go to these areas and start setting up plans, and
contacting neighbors, and find out that we can't do any of these, either of the methods
that we've identified, we're going to go to a bow hunt. That wouldn't be possible
under the resolution.
Goodman-Herbst/ Well, it's probably not going to be possible this year, anyway, correct?
Norton/ Yeah.
Goodman-Herbst/ To do a bow hunt?
Thompson / Probably, I guess on both, on many of those accounts, basically, the trap-and-
kill, the sharpshooting, both of those are going to have to take some changes within the
DNR, to have something like Cedar Rapids, or some other communities have had bow
hunts with special tags. I don't know that that could be done this year, either. I think
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the only option would be if bow hunting is allowed to people that people use their
regular deer tags, because you have the right to control that right now.
Norton/ Okay.
Goodman-Herbst/ And I think that Council was aware, when we started this whole thing, that
there was a possibility that something wouldn't happen this year. We may not be able
to do anything about that.
Nov/ I think we're maybe too late for this year.
Thompson/ I'd like to say too, I know the Committee, they had to work and work hard on
this here, and in the last few months, got down to the nitty-gritty of a lot of it. And I
know we were ~hooting to try to got ~omething done by August, but we also felt it best
that we discuss options thoroughly, too.
Kubby/ Does it makes sense, then, because it doesn't sound like anybody went to one of these
areas and maybe talked to people in the area about what they would find acceptable.
And since that's kind of part of our process --
Goodman-Herbst/ What every other community did, Karen, was they sent out a survey. And
we had talked about doing that early on, but we didn't want to rush into things and not
lmow what questions we wanted to ask. There are sample surveys in the packet that
you can look at. But we would want, I think that would be part of the educational
process, would be to get a survey out, and see what different areas are feeling about
this.
Kubby/ So, is the Committee thinIcing that once this plan is adopted, that we would then do
such a survey, and if it came back that in certain areas, people didn't find the guns
acceptable, what would happen?
Goodman-Herbst/ Then it wouldn't be done there.
Lehman/ That's right.
Kubby/ What if every area, that's what your surveys come back with, which is what Dee was
talking about?
Goodman-Herbst/ Then--
Kubby/ We would have to rethink the strategy.
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Goodman-Herbst/
Kubby/
Norton/
Exactly.
Step back at that point.
This is kind of enabling legislation.
Thornberry/ Right.
Norton/ We start to implement it, and we may run into something that suggests that we've got
to go back to the drawing board. I suppose. We've got to start somewhere, I guess
that's the point.
Kubby/ That's all under the assumption that you agree that there's a problem.
Norton/ I do.
Kubby/ But that's something to talk about, and to consciously state that you agree with. So
that you can go forward with a plan.
Bruce Tomlin/ I'm Bruce Tomlin. Listening to the discussion, I'm neither a gun expert or
hunter, or much of anything on this topic. But, I do go to the movies, and it sounded
like there was a lot of concern over the noise of the guns. And it seems like when
people want to shoot a gun and make it quiet, they use a silencer. And it seems like, I
don't know why that couldn't solve some of concerns with regard to this problem at
least. I know that they're illegal, but on the other hand, it seems like this is one of
those things, we're going to be hiring deer assassins anyway, why not just put it in the
package?
Kubby/ Call it like it is.
Nov/ We can design that into the package, I would assume.
Kubby/ What does that do to the accuracy? Does anyone know that?
Lehman/ Shouldn't make any difference.
Kubby/ Misha's saying from the back of the room that it does not affect the accuracy.
Goodman-Herbst/ We talked to, what was his name, Scott?
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Audience/ Beckerman.
Goodman-Herbst/ Yeah, from the Federal, what was it called --
Thompson/ Scott Beckerman was at one of our meetings. He's with the USDA Animal
Control. And he's done sharpshooting. And I think apparently, some of the things are
there's different types of silencers. One type may just silence so that you don't see any
flash come from the gun. Another one will muffle a certain amount of sound, and a
little bit more sound, and apparently, there's some really stringent controls, even for a
Police Department, to get permission from the Feds to be able to have silencers.
Goodman-Herbst/ But apparently, it doesn't affect the effectiveness of the bullet coming out
of the gun.
Thornberry/ It doesn't in the movies. Okay, but I think they're not looking at shooting deer,
you know, 100 yards away. I think they're looking at shooting deer 20 or 30 yards
away. I mean, I live up in that neighborhood by Moss Dairy, and they're all over. I
mean, I shoo them away.
Lehman/ Get a lasso.
Thornberry/ Yeah, just about. But you're not looking, I don't think you're looking at 100
yards for killing deer. I think you're looking at a lot, a lot less. 20, 30, 40 yards.
Nov/
We would like to thank all the Committee members and all the DNR members. I know
they're put in a lot of hours, and I know they've worked very hard on this. Is there
anyone else from the public who would like to comment on this issue before we close
the public hearing?
Jennifer Seymour/ My name is Jennifer Seymour. I'm with Students for Animal Rights and
the Environment. And I'd just like to say, there's been a lot of talk tonight about
whether sharpshooting or bow hunting is humane, and we're talking about killing here.
That is not humane. And I'd like, you know, if you do decide to kill these deer, please
look at immuno-contraception as a method to control the deer population. Because
these huge slaughters every year are ridiculous. It's killing. And it's the human
population that's out of control, not the animal population. And for all of you on the
Committee who are going to put this proposal to the City Council, and for you who are
going to approve the plan, if you cannot personally shoot a deer yourself, then you
have no right to advocate someone else going out and killing deer. It's your decision.
So, please, do the right thing. Thank you.
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Nov/ Thank you.
Kubby/ I think, well, when we get to discussion we can do this, but I think maybe we need to
briefly go over what the nine points are. That would be very educational, whether this
plan passes or not. And that's part of the Committee's desire is to educate the
community about what the plan's about. So maybe the public hearing sounds like a
good time, so maybe someone from the Committee could briefly, and on page 11 of the
report are the nine points, that includes the contraception study, it includes public
education about landscaping materials, etc. I think it would be worth the community's
time to briefly state the nine points.
Lehman/ You've got a good point.
Pat Farrant/ My name is Pat Farrant, and I've been a member of the Committee from the
start, and I'll be happy to go over the nine points. But, before I do that, I just want to
make sure that it's clear to everybody that we started out as a very truncated, striated,
separated group. And frankly, there were a couple times during the deliberations that I
thought, I'm out of here. This is never, never going to come to any kind of consensus.
And I think that there was play on both ends of the spectrum, and I can't say that I'm
personally happy with the outcome, but I'm certainly happy that we came up with what
we think is a reasonable consensus approach to this situation. Let me just go quickly
over the nine points in the management plan. The first is that we feel very strongly
there needs to be education. Education about how to live with deer, not just how to
kill them. And, to that end, we've collected a huge stack of resource material that we
hope to be able to reduce to something that can be made into a brochure. So, that's
priority number one with us. We want to extend the system of reflectors that doesn't
control the population, but it certainly contributes to controlling one of the issues that
people have a very strong feeling about, and that's deer-vehicle collisions. And we do
have some figures that indicate that the reflector systems that are in place are indeed
reducing the number of collisions. We did have some question, I guess last night,
about how strongly we support the DNR's activities. That's a political as well as a
practical matter. But, in developing our plan, we wanted to be on record as saying that
we do support the efforts that are being made to control the deer population
appropriately within the state. Not all of us agree with every element of that process,
but we do in general agree with it. That we accept the number of 109 does that need to
be killed, and we all agreed to stop using euphemisms and use the word "kill", and that
we approve only the approach of killing by sharpshooting or trap-and-kill. We had
many discussions about our concern that the reduction of the herd be made humanely,
and we were pretty unanimous about the reality that bow hunting, whatever your
politics on the subject, is not humane. That in killing the deer, we will try to make
some use of the product of that slaughter. It would be of no great benefit to the deer,
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but we will try to use the meat in a way that is useful to the community, and some
steps have been taken in that direction to get a local locker to do field dressing and to
distribute the meat, probably through the Salvation Army's food pantry. That we need
money to do this, and we're'asking for $15,000, understanding that because this is a
first time event, we don't know if this is enough. It may be too much, but it may not
be enough. Very important to some of us, was the condition that the City agree to look
into immuno-contraception. When the deer issue was a hot topic at Kent Park a few
years ago, that was dismissed out of hand. Since then, just in three years, the Humane
Society of the US has gotten over a hundred, nearly 150 requests for information for
offers to serve as a test site for various kinds of immuno-contraception in deer and
other wildlife control. We would like Iowa City to pursue the possibility within the
developmental process, as it's going on. That we view what we're proposing today as
a one-year project. And that we feel that this is something that needs to be addressed
on a year-to-year basis. And that we would like the City to
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-145 SIDE B
Farrant/ Continuing the Deer Management Committee on a regular basis, and have us
convene once a year to examine the situation, and to determine, on the basis of the
record of complaints that we receive through the year, whether there are any changes
in the management areas that we've identified, and we suspect there will be.
Particularly given that there's going to be continuing development in the City. And
finally, that we'll do an evaluation of the effectiveness of this whole process. And I
think from our perspective, the three most important issues are that we were willing to
accept the fact that there's a problem in the City, that we wanted to come up with a
method of controlling it that involved more than just lethal removal, which we finally
decided just to use the term "kill", that we took advantage of the tenor and the culture
of this City and moved toward education, and that we looked for really cutting-edge
ways of control, and that for us would be the immuno-contraception that essentially the
Humane Society of the US is spearheading. So that, in a nutshell is what we did.
Norton/ Thank you.
Kubby/ Thanks.
Thornberry/ I guess you mentioned it in one of your points, but I want to emphasize. You, I
was in attendsnee st one of the meetings that lasted well, I left before the meeting was
over. They discussed at length the humaneness of the kill of the deer. And I was
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wondering, had you thought about shooting them with those darts which puts them to
sleep, and whatever, and then you can --
Farrant/ As I recall, we considered that, but then you render the meat useless.
Thornberry/ Oh, I see.
Farrant/ It's not fit for human consumption. And since we were trying to make this as sort of
as integral, as integrated a process as possible, that --
Thornberry/ Makes sense. You went into it in a whole lot more depth than I, I just thought,
well, being a humane way to do it was put the animal to sleep there.
Farrant/ Well, I recommend this as a model for getting things done. It, we avoided blows,
but we came up with what I think is a very --
Thornberry/ Yeah, I think it's very well done.
Farrant/ Thank you.
Nov/ Pat, based on some of the comments that we've heard about this may not work this
year, may I assume that the Committee will continue on the education segment, even if
we do not get permission to start killing deer this year?
Farrant/ Yes. And not everyone was convinced that the problem is of the magnitude that
some are. We went on the assumption that it was. But, yes, this is, we can do parts of
this. We certainly can.
Thornberry/ Good job.
Kubby/ Thank you.
Nov/ Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to comment?
Margaret MacDonald/ You want us to sign in or not?
Nov/ Please, yes.
MacDonald/ My name is Margaret MacDonald, and I live at 400 Foster Road. I think the
evening has been very educational. I would wish that every citizen of Iowa City could
have been here and have heard the persons speak from the various su13jects that they
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attacked. I think some of you have seen the damage which we have suffered at our
own lovely little valley, and how we now don't dare buy any of the products at Project
Green Sale unless we can be sure that it's something the deer won't find tasteful.
Hosta is out, because they not only eat what they can find, but they come back and
watch for new shoots that might be sturdy and might try to come through the grass, up
through the ground. And therefore, they have another salad. But it is, it's an
interesting experience, and a tragic one, because true, they are beautiful to look at, but
you know, I've sat here and wished we could have a man or a woman with
philanthropic ideas. Maybe we could have an animal park built out here in Iowa
someplace, where our children could go and see not only the deer, but lots of other
animals in a habitat like Animal Park is in California. But, some people seem to feel
that it's kind of fun to look out and see a deer. But maybe they don't know that it just
last night during the night cleaned out all the plants in the house next door, because
they were new and different. And they try everything. And I can attest to the fact that
they eat both day and night. They are out all night long, and I think lots of people
could attest to that for having encountered them with their automobile. And one of the
points that I think hasn't come up tonight, and otherwise I wouldn't have kept you
longer, but I do feel that we ought to make a real appeal to the public to ask them to
report when they've had a near, or a very serious accident with a deer. This might
give us some perception as to whether or not we're making progress in culling the
herd. If the figures go down, we would know that we've done something important
and helpful in the whole project. But there are many, many friends in my circle who
have told us about the encounters that they have had. Some have demolished their
vehicles. Others have been injured. Some got out without injury, but I don't think
they've all been in the paper. Maybe the Police have a record of them, and I'm sure
we could probably inquire to see what records are on file through the County and the
City, to know just how many accidents we've had with the deer only. But I feel there
are some of those things that are going to help us make a decision on how we proceed,
and I don't know what methods should be. I only know that it is heartbreaking if
people spend their money for some plants that they really would love, and they put
them out, and care for them, and then get up the next morning, and find they're all
ruined. And I know that we could never have had the evergreens that we have now, if
we had had deer when we bought our place. Because they would've eaten up the tiny,
little evergreens, as they have chewed off all the lower branches of the beautiful
evergreens that we have. We can never have any that sweep the ground anymore.
Now, that's just our own personal pleasure, and the happiness that other people see
when they look at our property. But those are things that people all over the north end
of the City, at lea§t, have had to experience. And ~ome of them have ~poken to you,
and some of them have invited you to come and see the damage. But I just feel that
there are things that maybe we need to make a record of as we go along, namely the
accidents, and also to inquire from our physicians of how many Lyme Disease patients
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they have had to treat. So, that's another issue. And those two things are much more
important than the damage they do to our plants, because we can live without them,
and we know that the deer are beautiful as an animal. But, so are lions, in their
location, and we certainly wouldn't want to have a whole herd of lions let loose on our
lovely area where we live. But we just have to be reasonable about it, and I think it's
great to have a Committee, and I hope they'll continue to collect information and that
we can have more meetings, maybe not City Council meetings, but more meetings even
like the one we had Saturday morning, where people could come and ask questions,
and learn and express themselves. Thank you much.
Nov/ Thanks, Margaret.
Thornberry/ Thanks, Margaret.
Handsaker/ Just really quickly, I spoke with Marty Jones, who i~ the per,on who approve~
the plans in the state of Illinoi~ for reduction of d~cr, The question of the ~ound of the
guns going off, I asked him if that was an issue, and he said, remember, this was in the
winter, the homes are shut, and pretty air-tight, and he said it has not been an issue in
the state of Illinois. He's not received that many complaints about it. I just wanted to
bring to your attention that we did ask for that information.
Thornberry/ Thanks.
Nov/ And, as a matter of clarification, the Police Department, and the Sheriff's Department
do receive reports when cars hit deers. Deer.
Thornberry/ So do insurance companies.
Nov/ Yes, so do insurance companies.
Linda Tomlin/ Hi, I'm Linda Tomlin. I live at 1909 Glendale Road, Iowa City. I don't have
much to add here. Many people have said what I probably would have said, had I
spoken earlier. I am fully in support of the sharpshooting plan, and trap-and-kill. I
think, I did sit on the Kent Park Deer Committee a few years ago. So I've read most
of the material that this Committee has read. It's not at all uncommon for a co~mnittee
of this nature to decide that sharpshooting is a preferred method. It may not be the
method that's chosen in the end, but it usually is prioritized pretty high. Dean, there's
a friend of mine at the State Hygienic Lab. He's heading up a study on Lyme Disease.
Do you have a pencil?
Thornberry/ I do.
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L. Tomlin/ His name is Tom Gahan, and he can tell you what's going on in Johnson County
pretty accurately, I think.
Thornberry/ Okay.
L. Tomlin/ I would like to ask Tim a question? How young can a hunter be in Iowa to bow
hunt?
Thompson/ (Can't hear).
L. Tomlin/ Thank you.
Thompson/ Technically, on the hunting, there's regulations as to when you have to have a
hunter education. You're not required to have a license until you're 16 years old. If
you do hunt, maybe ten and over, I don't know exactly, but there's really no age limit
for the tag. It's up to, I suppose, the guardian or the parent to decide if that youth is
ready or not.
L. Tomlin/ So a twelve-year-old could be --
Thompson/ A twelve-year-old could hunt it.
L. Tomlin/ Okay, thanks.
Nov/
Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to talk about this? All right. Is
the City Council ready to close the public hearing, or do we need more public
discussion?
Thornberry/ I think we could close it.
Karr/ Could we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Vanderhoef/ So moved.
Thornberry/ Second.
Nov/
It's been moved and seconded that we accept correspondence, Vanderhoef and
Thornberry. Is there any discussion? All in favor, please say aye- (ayes). Motion
carried. Is there any interest in continuing the public hearing, or is there any interest
in closing the public hearing, before I bang the gavel?
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Thornberry/ Close it.
Kubby/ I'm all set. I kind of just agree with the majority, in that even though this was in the
paper, having it appear at a Council meeting with such thorough discussion, I think,
plus the Sierra Club had something tonight, kind of allows kind of a broader range of
people to know that this issue is happening. I know, I haven't gotten calls before
tonight. I think today, I had three or four calls from people. And I wouldn't mind
hearing from some more people. I wouldn't mind being able to spend some more time
with the information at the City Clerk's office. My personal situation this weekend just
didn't allow me to, I didn't know it was there till Monday, actually, and didn't have
the ability to get down the last two days to look at the information. And we know it
can't happen this year, anyway, so I would be interested in continuing the hearing.
Thornberry/ I'd just assume vote on it now, and go on. Let's go on.
Nov/
I would like to at least defer the vote. This is not something we can do this year. We
may want to amend something within the plan. I would like to think about it a little
bit longer, though I have no real objection to closing the public hearing. I think we
have heard, today, from people on all sides of the issue. I don't know that we're going
to hear an opinion that we haven't already heard.
Thornberry/ I don't either.
Norton/ Well, the Committee had a lot of input from a lot of different people.
Thornberry/ The Committee has done their job here. I think we ought to just --
Norton/ I think we should close the hearing, but we may want to defer the vote.
Thornberry/ What would you want to defer the vote for?
Norton/ I'm not particularly interested in deferring it, but --
Thornberry/ I'm not either. I mean, what more do you want to glean from other information?
Norton/ I'm perfectly happy to vote.
Kubby/ Well, I have some real, I'm, I have some real ethical concerns about, is there really a
problem, and balancing lives of other creatures with other larger ecological issues, and
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shooting off guns in town. I have a lot of ethical concerns, and I'm bouncing back and
forth, that I haven't resolved yet.
Thornberry/ Okay.
Kubby/ So that would be, for me, that's
a reason to not take a vote, so I can process through
the ethical concerns that I have inside of myself, to make what I believe is the best
determination for the community as a Council member.
Thornberry/ I had some, too, Karen. The gunfire --
Kubby/ Well, I'm sure we all do. You may have resolved them.
Thornberry/ Then I resolved them by the information that I received from the report, and
from the speakers, and I have no problem with voting on this tonight.
Norton/ Well we've been seeing the minutes of those meetings of the Deer Management, so
we're, I don't think we were surprised by where things were going.
Nov/ No.
Thornberry/
Vanderhoef/
Nov/
You want to close the public hearing now?
I'm okay with closing it.
I think I hear a majority ready to close the public hearing.
closed.
Public hearing is now
b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING
Thornberry/ And I'll move to consider the resolution on 8b if I can get a second and four
votes.
Nov/ 7b.
Thornberry/ 7b.
Nov/ No, we're on 8.
Thornberry/ 8b.
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Nov/ Okay, I hear a motion from Thornberry. Is there a second?
Lehman/ Second.
Nov/ Second by Lehman that we consider the resolution to establish a Deer Management Plan
for Iowa City.
Kubby/ I have a parliamentary question. Does a motion to defer take precedence over our
motion? I'd like to move that we defer this till November 1 lth.
Nov/
All right. We have a motion by Kubby to defer the vote on the resolution to November
1 lth. Do we have a second? Can I second for the purpose of discussion? All right, I
would at least like to discuss the option of deferral. Go ahead, Karen.
Kubby/ Well, I think I've already explained myself. And even though we've all known,
we've read the Committee minutes, we haven't gotten the actual report from the
Committee until Friday. And because, for me, the issue of slaughter is a really
emotional one. I try to live lightly on the earth. I don't, I have a non-violent diet. I
try to have a lifestyle that's very non-violent. But there are other issues out there. I
need to ponder these, obviously, a little bit longer than many other people on Council,
and maybe just out of respect for me to be able to make a clear determination of a
strong yes or a strong no, I would ask the personal courtesy to defer, so that at least
one of us who is having this need to process through this a little longer, but have the
ability to have that time.
Thornberry/ Okay. Karen, this is not something that has come out of the blue. We have
been talking about this issue for at least two years.
Kubby/ I know that.
Thornberry/ And if you can't process and get through the fact that we need to cull the herd,
so to speak, to bring the deer management problem into perspective, into manageable
numbers within the City limits, I think two years is enough to ponder.
Kubby/ I just find that a very disrespectful of saying that you don't want to defer.
Thornberry/ I'm sorry that you took it disrespectfully. I did not mean be disrespectful to you,
Karen. I just said that we have been talking about this for two years.
Kubby/ And I've aclmowledged that.
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Thornberry/ And if you didn't understand that we had a Deer Management Committee,
ongoing process. What if this would have happened that they came and said yes, in
some areas of the City, yes, we have too many deer, and we need to get it down to a
manageable level.
Kubby/ I think you've just illustrated my point beautifully, thank you.
Norton/ It's, you make it tough when you make it a point of personal courtesy. If it's going
to make it more comfortable, I guess I can live with, obviously, I think we're ready,
I'm ready to vote. And I think we probably should vote. But if November 1 lth is
going to help you resolve some difficulties there, I don't think they're going to resolve.
They're difficult for all of us. They're not going to disappear. But if you're more
comfortable, I guess I'd go along with that.
Lehman/ Well, let me say that we did, when we appointed this Committee, I think we
acknowledged that we had a number of people in this community who were very, very
unhappy about this difficulties they were experiencing with the deer. We appointed the
Committee with the expectation that we would have something by this fall. And I think
that's an accurate statement, that we all thought it could be done by this fall. It appears
that even with this resolution, that perhaps we won't be able to do something this
winter, although I'm not totally convinced of that. In the discussion tonight, I think I
hear a lot of things. A lot of possibilities, even though this determined that
sharpshooting is the way, we are looking at several different areas of the City. And it
would appear to me that there might very well be some sort of by-law with the DNR
where we come up with a program that may not be exactly what we're talking about
right here, but something that will work to manage the number of deer within the City
limits, reduce that herd down, and try to control the problem that we have. I think it's
very important that we pass something so that we have something to talk about. It's
different than, you know, we talk about it, and we talk about it. I would like to see us
pass this. I'm willing to vote on it tonight, because I think this is something, this is the
first step of a process that may take awhile. It may have to be amended, it may have to
be changed. And the sooner we get something down to work with, I think, the better
off we are. And I do respect your opinion, Karen, but I think it's time that we act on
it.
Norton/ You think we couldn't modify it in the, if we defer? You think nothing would
happen? In other words, you think we need to get something on the table so that we
can talk turkey with the DNR?
Kubby/ The wild turkey.
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Norton/ Talking turkey with the DNR.
Lehman/ I can find no reason within myself why I would want to defer this.
Nov/ I would like to consider amendments. I would like to consider changing the plan to say
that there can be some bow hunting in some areas, or there can be some bow hunting in
other years. The plan addresses just one year. And it does not go beyond the one
year. I think these kinds of amendments are realistic.
Lehman/ Even a little more flexibility.
Nov/ Even more flexibility.
Lehman/ Aren't these the kinds of things the Deer Committee should be doing?
Vanderhoef/ Right. And that is what should be in the ongoing dialog for the next year. I'm
not personally interested in amendments at this point. And this does not mean that at
some point I might not change that. But right now, I go with the Committee's plan.
Nov/ The Committee's plan does not go beyond a single year.
Vanderhoef/ That's right.
Nov/ And--
Vanderhoef/ Except that --
Nov/ I'm not sure that we, as the City Council, aren't obligated to think beyond a single year.
Vanderhoef/ But they have gone beyond the year, in that they are saying that they recommend
that the Deer Committee be brought back annually.
Kubby/ Right, and that there be evaluation.
Vanderhoef/ So, I see that as ongoing. I don't see this as just a one-year thing.
Lehman/ I don't, either.
Baker/ And the Committee very clearly said that as soon as they get into the implementation
of this plan, they would not be surprised if they have to come back with amendments,
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dealing with the neighborhoods.
form of a resolution right now.
circumstances.
So, this is not set in stone. It is simply set in the
And it will be amended, depending on the
Norton/ Does the resolution permit though, Larry, if they get into the details, section by
section, does the resolution, as written, permit a bow and arrow option if that, if, I
think it doesn't. I think that's what Naomi's point is.
Baker/ You know what permits that? A recommendation and four votes, and it's in.
Norton/ So we'd modify at that point.
Baker/ Sure.
Norton/ I'm torn about also --
Kubby/ Well, we're not really talking, starting to not talk about deferral anymore. Maybe we
should just vote on that issue, and have the plan be on the table, or not.
Nov/ Okay. Is there an interest in deferring the vote on the resolution to November 1 lth?
Kubby/ Motion's on the floor, it's been seconded already to vote.
Thornberry/ There's a motion on the floor.
Nov/ Yes. So. Are we ready to vote? All in favor of deferral, say aye- (Norton, Kubby,
Novick, ayes). Okay. I don't think I hear a majority. All opposed, same sign- (ayes).
Karr/ So, three to four?
Nov/ That's what I thought I heard.
Thornberry/ I don't know. Which way did you vote, Naomi?
Nov/ I voted to defer.
Norton/ In a voice vote, you're not supposed to know all those details.
Nov/ Well, I --
Norton/ That's the point of a voice vote.
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Nov/ I heard a three to four vote.
Kubby/ With your voice we'd know.
Norton/ With my voice, yes.
Nov/ Yes, his voice is loud enough to drown out --
Thornberry/ I retract my question.
Nov/ We are ready to vote on the approval of the resolution. Is there any discussion on the
resolution?
Kubby/ I just want to say to the Committee that my soon-to-be "no" vote is not out of any
disrespect for the work and the deliberations that you've done. I'm not ready to put
my name on the slaughter certificate at this point, yet.
Thornberry/ It's not a slaughter certificate.
Kubby/ Yes, it is. And we need to be clear about that. And you know, you're just, your
viewpoint is different.
Thornberry/ It's a killing certificate.
Kubby/ Your viewpoint is different than mine.
Lehman/ We were asked earlier if we would hunt deer if we would vote for this. You know, I
don't perform surgery, but I certainly wouldn't want to prevent a surgeon from doing
that. So it doesn't bother me to vote for this.
Thornberry/ Okay.
Nov/
I'm going to discuss a little further that the meeting of the Iowa City-Coralville Deer
Management Committee in the spring of 1998 will review and recommend options for a
period of October 1998 to march 1999. So I wanted to emphasize the fact that there
will be reconsideration and new possibilities for another year. It is also possible that
whatever happens this year will be just education. And I don't want people to assume
by passing this resolution, there will be some deer control this year. We just don't
know yet.
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Kubby/ I guess the other item that we haven't spent much time talking about is what I believe
to be possibly an even larger issue. And that is about the County's development
patterns, and the City's development patterns over the last 30 to 50 years. That doesn't
really facilitate wildlife moving from feeding ground to feeding ground. And I lmow
that the Committee talked about that a little bit, and has recommended to us that when
we look at development issues, that we have deer migration patterns be part of our
deliberations, part of the factor that we look at. And when there's a new road, for
example that goes across deer paths, that we allow a safe way for deer to get across the
road, instead of going over the road. And I think our open space plan is something
that can facilitate wildlife moving throughout the City without causing as much
damage, and as little conflict as possible, between the human urban population and the
wildlife urban population. And I hope that when we look at the Comprehensive Plan,
we look at it from that point of view as well.
Nov/ That is definitely part of the plan.
Kubby/No one has gotten back, either, to the suggestion that there be some videotaping, if
sharpshooting ends up happening, to just kind of monitor what that's like. And that
sounded like an interesting thing to think about.
Thornberry/ I don't think so.
Norton/ (Can't understand).
Nov/ I'm not crazy about that idea.
Thornberry/ I'm not either.
Norton/ When they come to implementing --
Nov/ We're going to watch a deer die. However we do it, it's not going to be fun to watch.
Norton/ Tune into Discovery Channel.
Kubby/ Well, that's not the purpose.
Nov/ Well, I--
Kubby/ The purpose is some kind of accountability so that we can understand better the
choices that we're making in how the deer die. And I think it's a very reasonable kind
of accountability for plans like this. I see some Committee members shaking their
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heads in the affirmative. And maybe, it doesn't seem like there are many people
interested here. That might be something to put in your file for when the Committee
comes back together, to recommend to us in the future.
Nov/ Is there anything else? Roll call--
Eleanor Dilkes/ Madam Mayor, I have one comment on Item//3 of the Plan, which is also
Item//3 of the resolution. The "strongly supports the DNR's efforts". My concern is
that because we have some indication that implementation of this plan may involve a
challenge to the DNR's initial position, that somewhat conflicts with what we may have
to do to implement the plan. So, and I certainly understand why the Committee has it
in there, but I think it's possibly a problem.
Kubby/ I mean, it seems like if we took the words "and strongly support their efforts" --
Norton/ Delete those three words, yeah.
Kubby/ Yeah.
Dilkes/ That's what I would suggest.
Nov/ Okay.
Kubby/ Does that need a motion?
Dilkes/ Yes, it needs a motion.
Kubby/ Okay. I would move that we delete --
Thornberry/ I would like to hear from the Committee, a Committee member, why they put
those three words in there? Was it --
Kubby/ When the motion's on the floor --
Nov/ Do we have (can't hear) the motion?
Norton/ I second the motion.
Nov/ We need a motion and a second before we discuss it.
Kubby/ The motion that I --
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Nov/ Karen, are you moving?
Kubby/ The motion I made was that in the resolution, Item//3 that we delete the three words
"and strongly support".
Norton/ I second.
Nov/
Okay. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Norton, that Item//3 will now read "The City of
Iowa City will actively work with the State of Iowa Department of Natural Resources,
to fully understand their efforts to control the deer population for which that agency is
responsible, and which affects the health, safety, and welfare of Iowa City residents."
Is there any further discussion on this?
Kubby/ And Dean has asked for some response from the Committee. And it may be that
different members may have different responses.
Thornberry/ This was in the, you, or Lisa or somebody
Nov/ Pat? Okay.
Farrant/ I'll be glad to speak to, this reflects the political nature of the deliberations that went
on. We didn't want to get, we didn't want to make this an us and them hunting, anti-
hunting, DNR policies versus what we would prefer, so we wanted to say that we did
not approach this with a negative attitude toward what the DNR does. We didn't, some
of us, want that to be construed to be a complete agreement. The "strongly" I think
kind of crept in there, and we agreed that it should be taken out. And I think, am I
right about, I think we're happy to have it taken out, because I think "strong" would
not apply to everybody's support.
Norton/ We're taking out "support", too.
Kubby/ But we're taking out the word "support", too, so it just reads "understand".
Farrant/ Yes, we understand. And that would probably be a more accurate representation.
Nov/ Okay. That seems like a non-controversial change. Is there any further discussion?
Okay. All in favor of the amendment, please say aye- (ayes). All opposed, same sign.
Motion carried. we're not at the point of discussion the resolution. Is there any
further discussion on the resolution as amended? Okay. Roll call- (yes; Kubby, no).
We have approved this resolution on a 6-1 vote; Kubby voting no. Now, because Item
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//9 has some bearing on this whole discussion, we're going to vote on Item//9, and
then we're going to take a break.
Thornberry/ There's going to be a lot of discussion on that one.
Nov/ You think so?
Lehman/ I would wonder -
Council/ (All talking).
Lehman/ If we should defer//9 until we find out what's going to happen with//8?
Baker/ I don't think//9's got anything to do with//8.
Lehman/ Well, it certainly could have.
Nov/ Well, I don't lmow.
Baker/ Let's go on and discuss it, then.
Thornberry/ I intend to discuss it. Let's take a break.
Nov/ Let's take a break. Okay, a short break, right now.
BREAK
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ITEM NO. 9
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED "POLICE
REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 7, ENTITLED "WEAPONS," TO PROHIBIT THE
USE OF BOWS, ARROWS AND CROSSBOWS WITHIN THE CITY. (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Nov/ (Reads agenda item//9).
Lehman/ I would like to move that we defer this to a later date.
And I say that because, for
example, the University has an archery club. We have Boy Scout troops that have
archery as one of their skills. I have no problem with barring crossbows. But I really
think there's a lot more to this than just barring bows and arrows.
Kubby/ Maybe no killing with bows and arrows.
Lehman/ I think it needs to be thought out more carefully. We had a person tonight saying he
practices in his backyard.
Kubby/ My neighbor practices, too.
Lehman/ And I think this is not a good --
Nov/ I think we can make an exception for archery on private property or something like that.
Norton/ Sport.
Kubby/ That might be good.
Nov/ All right. Archery and random shooting of bows and arrows could be two different
things. We could allow target archery if we chose to amend it.
Karr/ Excuse me. Just a matter of parliamentary procedure. You don't have a second. And
you can't just say to a later time. We either need it indefinitely, or a date-specific.
Lehman/ I think indefinitely.
Nov/ All right.
Baker/ Second.
Nov/ Oh.
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Norton/ It's moved and seconded that --
Nov/ We have a motion by Lehman and second by Baker to defer indefinitely? How about
defer just to November 1 lth.
Lehman/ Well, is that adequate time for this to be researched properly, to come up with an
ordinance that we would be happy with? Now don't say happy.
Nov/ Well, we--
Thornberry/ I think probably indefinitely is --
Nov/ I don't --
Dilkes/ It depends on what kind of, we'd have to get some direction from you as to what you
want to do.
Nov/ Yeah, I don't think it's a problem.
Dilkes/ This--
Kubby/ Maybe we could discuss that, and that'll help determine whether we want to shoot
this motion down or not.
Thornberry/ (Can't understand)
Lehman/ Well I think we've indicated, Eleanor, some --
Kubby/ Bad choice of words.
Lehman/ (Can't hear).
Norton/ (Can't hear).
Kubby/ For me.
Lehman/ Boy Scouts use this. We have people who do this for recreation. Crossbows, I
don't know anybody who uses those for recreation. I personally do not believe
crossbows should be used in City limits. But there may be situations, I mean, little
kids have bows and arrows. They sell them at the toy stores. Some of them have little
rubber tips on the end of 'em.
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Dilkes/ (Yes).
Lehman/ I just think this is not written in a fashion that I am willing to support. And it could
be written in a way that would prevent, for example, the type of arrows, there are
types of arrows, for example, for hunting deer, and they are, the tips of them are like
razor blades. A lot different than an arrow that's used for target practice in the
backyard.
Dilkes/ I understand the concern. I think R.J. is the one that has that kind of expertise, I
would assume. I don't know what kind of safety --
Kubby/ What I think we want to do is prevent hunting within the City limits with any kind of
bow and arrow or crossbow.
Baker/ You just want to prevent hunting in Iowa City, period, don't you?
Kubby/ You just passed a plan that --
Norton/ There already is.
Baker/ That's not hunting, Karen.
Thornberry/ That's not really hunting, Karen.
Kubby/ It's slaughter.
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ Okay. Based on --
Council/ (All talking).
Kubby/ We do all agree on that. Because, I mean, that gives direction to the writers of the
revision.
Norton/ Well, what's the virtue between a specific date and indefinitely? Is indefinitely, you
can bring it up anytime?
Lehman/ Give them time to prepare it. '
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Dilkes/ Yeah, I think the indefinitely, we're going to have to talk to R.J. about it.
Nov/ The next three weeks is not adequate time?
Lehman/ No.
Thornberry/ No.
Norton/ It might not be.
Kubby/ Well, and if it is, it'll appear in our agenda. And if it's not, then it'll appear later.
Lehman/ It can come up anytime.
Thornberry/ That's why it's indefinite.
Kubby/ Right.
Dilkes/ I think this was, everyone, I think thought this was in there, and then when it came up
in Committee, they realized it wasn't, R.J. thought we should put it in.
Norton/ But it needs revision.
Dileks/ So, yeah. And I don't think it's a huge, we don't have to rush to get it done.
Nov/ All right.
Thornberry/ Indefinite is worth it.
Nov/ As long as we allow some reasonable archery practice for kids who want to do that kind
of thing.
Thornberry/ Not just kids.
Nov/ Dee Norton, -- oh, all right.
Thornberry/ It's an Olympic sport.
Nov/ Dee Norton said there used to be a public archery practice range at the Rec Center, and
they took it out, and they put a public rifle range in there.
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Norton/ Yeah, there was an archery range in the basement of the Rec Center when it was
built.
Thornberry/ So, the motion has been made to indefinitely --
Nov/ All right. The motion has been made to defer indefinitely --
Kubby/ And I there's enough direction --
Thornberry/ Second.
Dilkes/ Yeah, we can --- if not we'll ask.
Nov/ Is there any further discussion on the deferral? All in favor, please say aye- (ayes). All
opposed same sign. Motion carried.
Vanderhoef/ I just would like one more thing to be looked at, at least, when we talk about
this, is whether it would be legal to have an archery park. They do it just like a disc
park, or a golf park, and they have set targets, and --
Norton/ Field campus.
Thornberry/ Skateboarders, archers.
Baker/
Kubby/
Nov/ Oh, let's stay with frisbees (can't understand).
Thornberry/ Okay. Moving on.
Norton/ There is an archery park by the Field Campus.
Do that at the soccer field, yeah. Moving targets.
But maybe you're on a skateboard, trying to shoot towards the park.
Vanderhoef/Yeah.
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ITEM NO. 10 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DIRECTING SALE OF 5,540,000
CORPORATE PURPOSE GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS.
Nov/ (Reads agenda item #10).
Kubby/ Move adoption of the resolution.
Thornberry/ Second.
Kubby/ Go on to something more mundane like spending money.
Nov/ Moved by Kubby and seconded by Thornberry?
Vanderhoef/ Real quick with money.
Nov/ The award recommendation is for Harris Trust of Chicago, and the interest rate is
5.051%, which I believe is a good interest rate? You want to say something, Don?
Don Yucuis/ I believe that's a very good interest rate. We were very fortunate to get four
bidders, and the spread was real small. Their interest rate was real good. I also
wanted to point out that Moody's Investors did reconfirm our AAA rating on the
bonds.
Thornberry/ Good.
Vanderhoef/ Good deal.
Nov/ Okay, thank you.
Thornberry/ What would this have been if we were, for example, to have a B rating?
Yucuis/ B rating is just --
Council/ (All talking).
Yucuis/ One-half to three-quarters of a percent higher.
Thornberry/ Half to three-quarters of a percent higher for --
Yucuis/ Right.
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Nov/ Even if we had a double AA instead of a AAA, it would have been higher.
think about Bs.
Baker/ Why do you think of those things?
Yucuis/ You have to get a new City Manager if you had a B rating.
Thornberry/ I'm allergic to Bs.
Nov/ Right, good.
Thornberry/ They hurt.
Nov/ So, is there any further discussion? Roll call- (yes).
Let's not
We have approved the resolution.
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October 21, 1997 City of Iowa City Page
ITEM NO, 11.
~7~ ~u~
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND
THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST THE FY98 AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE CITY OF UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS FOR THE
PROVISION OF TRANSIT SERVICE WITHIN THE CORPORATE LIMITS OF
UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS.
Comment: This agreement has been under negotiation between
University Heights and Iowa City. Agreement has been reached with
University Heights to continue paying the existing amount of $27,060
annually. Iowa City Transit is now operating one less route through
University Heights because of the Hawkeye Route no longer being
operated by Iowa City Transit.
Action: "~._~~/~~~.
370
ITEM NO. 12.
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION CERTIFYING UNPAID CLEAN-UP OF
PROPERTY CHARGES TO COUNTY FOR COLLECTION IN THE SAME
MANNER AS A PROPERTY TAX.
ITEM NO, 13.
Comment: This resolution authorizes the filing of a lien against properties
for unpaid clean-up charges. On October 6, 1997, certified letters were
mailed to each property owner listed in Exhibit A notifying them of the
date for the Council's consideration of the resolution. After the resolution
is moved for adoption, property owners should be permitted to be heard
concerning the unpaid charges. 7~ / &~<.~w.3
Action: _~/~J-~/~~ ~-~J ~/~f~)'~_~ ~
ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES.
a. Current Vacancies.
(1)
Public Art Advisory Committee: Four vacancies; one to fill a one-
year term, two to fill two-year terms, and one to fill a three-year
term all beginning January 1, 1998. The Committee will be
comprised of two community representatives and two art
professionals. (This is a new Committee.)
These appointments will be made at the December 9 Council
meeting.
b. Previously-Announced Vacancies.
(1)
Board of Adjustment: One vacancy to fill a five-year term ending
January 1, 2003. (Term expires for Pat Eckhardt.) (2 females
and 2 males currently serve on this Board.)
ITEM NO. 11
#11 page 1
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN
AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST THE FY98 AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE CITY OF UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS FOR THE
PROVISION OF TRANSIT SERVICE WITHIN THE CORPORATE LIMITS OF
UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS.
Nov/ (Reads agenda item #11). We need a motion.
Norton/ Move adoption of the resolution.
Vanderhoef/ Second.
Nov/ Moved by Norton, seconded by Vanderhoef.
Lehman/ How long have we been collecting the $27,060?
Yucuis/ It's approximately four years. They were due for a raise --
Lehman/ In other words, it hasn't changed in four years?
Yucuis/ Correct.
Kubby/ But they're getting a decrease in service.
Yucuis/ Right.
Lehman/ No, no, I realize that. I'll support this, but I really think, as I look at the costs of
operating the transit system, that some moderate sort of increase might be considered,
you lmow, for the next year.
Nov/ I assume that the University Heights folks are not getting service from CAMBUS?
CAMBUS is not stopping at those?
Yucuis/I don't know that, no.
Nov/ Because I understood that they were not going to compete, you know, they were going
to avoid competing with our routes that go through.
Atkins/ To the best of my knowledge, that's correct.
Kubby/ How many routes go through?
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Atkins/
Kubby/
down to two?
Atkins/ No, I think it was four, and it's down to three.
Nov/ Yeah, it was four, and now it's three.
The one that comes up Sunset --
There were what, there routes that went through University Heights?
And now it's
Kubby/ Okay. So that's a 25% reduction in service for the same price. That's, they're
eating, they're living out inflation.
Norton/ But, if it hasn't gone up in four years, you'd think it would go up every year, at least
the cost of our incremental pay --
Vanderhoef/ Percentage.
Kubby/ I think we just caught up.
Norton/ We probably --
Vanderhoef/ I think you might be right.
Norton/ I know, you take 3 % on 3 % on 3 %, it catches up in a hurry.
Thornberry/ I think it's fine.
Norton/ It's got to be about right.
Nov/ Okay. Everybody ready to vote? Roll call- (yes). We have approved the resolution.
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ITEM NO. 12 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION CERTIFYING UNPAID CLEAN-UP OF
PROPERTY CHARGES TO COUNTY FOR COLLECTION IN THE SAME
MANNER AS A PROPERTY TAX.
Nov/ (Reads agenda item//12).
Thornberry/ Move adoption of the resolution.
Norton/ Second.
Nov/ Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Norton. Is there anyone here who would like to
discuss the charges that have been levied against their property tax?
Thornberry/ Well--
Nov/ There doesn't appear to be anybody here to discuss this issue. Is there any Council
discussion?
Norton/ We just got a couple of memos tonight about it, didn't we?
Lehman/ Yes.
Nov/ We did get a letter tonight, from someone who was protesting, but is not able to be
here. So, in effect, we can accept correspondence.
Karr/ Correct, and you also got a memo in response to that from the Assistant City Attorney.
Kubby/ Move to accept correspondence.
Lehman/ Second.
Nov/
Moved by Kubby, seconded by Lehman, that we accept the correspondence received on
this issue. Is there any discussion? All in favor, please say aye- (ayes). Motion
carried.
Kubby/ I guess, I want to make sure I understand what the lady's attorney was saying. Is
Dennis still here? I'm glad for that. So, a quick read of this says, is suggesting, that
we took things above and beyond what we're allowed to take, and the City's response
is we took what we were mandated to take.
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//12 page 2
Dennis Mitchell/ Right. I, everything we took, we deemed to be junk and salvage materials,
under the ordinance, and lawfully, those items were taken pursuant to the court order.
Norton/ Is there, I guess, I don't want to get into all the details, but who defined junk and
salvage?
Mitchell/ Well, it's defined in our ordinance, and I think everything in there would meet the
definition that's set out in our ordinance. Just because something's usable, doesn't
mean it's still not junk or salvage materials. I think the reason you salvage something
is precisely because it's usable. But certainly, storing, you know, those type of things,
like used water heaters, pm'ts from like crane augers, or mowers, those type of things,
would certainly fall under the definition of salvage materials in the ordinance.
Norton/ And we're under no obligation to run an auction for any of those items or anything
like that?
Mitchell/ No. He chose not to remove those items, and left it up to the City to do so.
Nov/
If someone were cited for storing salvage in their yard, and we said remove it or we'll
send someone from the City. They could have said okay, this item is usable, I don't
want the City to remove it, I'm going to put it in my garage.
Mitchell/ Correct, you bet.
Norton/ Or, I'm going to auction it.
Nov/ Or, I'm going to sell it, right.
Norton/ Have a garage sale, in other words.
Mitchell/ Right. They could've done whatever they wanted to do. They just chose to leave
all the items there and force the City to do it.
Thornberry/ Of course, one persons' junk is another person's --
Norton/ I understand, but if they had a sale and it just doesn't go, then pretty soon it becomes
junk.
Nov/ Yeah. If it had value and they wanted to redeem the value, they could've had a yard
sale.
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Thornberry/ Well, what if he thought it was art?
Nov/ Thank you very much. Moving on. Is there any further discussion? Roll call- (yes).
We have approved this resolution.
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October 21, 1997 City of Iowa City Page
(2)
Board of Appeals: Two vacancies (one Home Builders'
Association Representative and one Licensed Plumber) for five-
year terms ending December 31, 2002. (Terms expire for John
Roffman and Gary Haman.) (1 female and 4 males currently
serve on this Board.)
(3)
Board of Library Trustees: One vacancy to fill an unexpired term
ending July 1, 2003. (Margaret Cox resigned.) (z~ females and 4
males currently serve on this Board.)
(4)
Design Review Committee: 'One vacancy for a Business or
Property Owner from the Central Business District or Near
Southside Neighborhood to fill an unexpired term ending
July 1, 1999. (Daryl Woodson resigned.) (2 females and 4
males currently serve on this Committee.)
(5)
Human Rights Commission: Three vacancies to fill three-year
terms ending January 1, 2001. (Terms expire for Joan Jehle,
Diane Martin, and Pamela Dautremont.) (4 females and 1 male
currently serve on this Commission.)
(6)
Parks and Recreation Commission: Two vacancies to fill four-
year terms ending January 1, 2002. (Terms expire for Bruce
Maurer and Barbara Endel.) (2 females and 5 males currently
serve on this Commission.)
(7)
Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission: Three vacancies to fill
three-year terms ending December 31, 2000. (Terms expire for
Cortney Daniels, Catherine Pugh, and Jim Pugh.) (2 females and
6 males currently serve on this Commission.)
(8)
Senior Center Commission: Two vacancies for three-year terms
ending December 31, 2000. (Terms expire for Chevalier
Monsanto and Robert Kemp.) (5 females and 2 males currently
serve on this Commission.)
These appointments will be made at the November 11 Council meeting.
ITEIVI NO. 14. CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION,
//14 page 1
ITEM NO. 14 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 97-146 SIDE A
Nov/ We're on City Council information. Mr. Norton?
Norton/ Just a couple of very brief items that I mentioned last night, and I just want to
mention them now, that I have suggested and the City Manager's going to look into a
little bit, the possibility of auxiliary patrols of some kind that might assist in some
activities of supervisory or control activities downtown. I don't know whether it's
possible, but many cities have done something like that, so we're going to explore that
a bit. I certainly don't think it's sure yet, but I think we ought to look at it. And the
other thing is, we've suggested, and I hope we do, everybody supports, getting a
meeting pretty soon with University leaders on some issues of immediate concern to
both of us. Particularly the north side, parking on the north side of downtown. And
we're hoping to get that meeting pretty soon. That's it.
Nov/ Thank you.
Kubby/ I just have one quick thing, and it's a real big thank you to the folks who live around
and on Sheridan Avenue. I know that our project, our sewer project there took a lot
longer than expected, and there were at least three residents who didn't have access to
their drives for very long periods of time. One of them is an older person who,
luckily, neighbors were very good at helping carry groceries in, and heavier things that
were hauled in and out of the house. But, a big thank you for the patience of the
people in that area. And it's not over yet, but it's closer than before.
Nov/ Okay. Mr. Lehman?
Lehman/ Just to reiterate, starting tomorrow after 5:00, the main entrance of the Civic Center
will be closed. Entrance will have to be from the east side, and there is, I think, a very
interesting, and could be a very important meeting that's going to be held on Thursday
night, regarding housing issues. So, those folks who will be attending that, if you find
the front entrance closed, the building is not closed. Come in the east entrance. And I
think you'll see part of the Council there.
Nov/ And this meeting on Thursday evening is, explain a little about that.
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//14 page 2
Lehman/ Well, it's regarding housing issues, and different approaches to subdivisions. And I
think, we've been looking at these issues on and off for the four years I've been on
Council. And I don't know that we've found any magic solutions. But, I think this
could be a very, very interesting approach. I'm very anxious to hear what, what's the
gentleman's name?
Kubby/ Vic Dover.
Lehman/ Vic Dover has to say. Because, you know, hopefully it's something that we can
incorporate in what we do here in Iowa City.
Nov/ Well, it's the latest news on developing neighborhoods. And the public is welcome to
attend. Mr. Thornberry?
Thornberry/ I have nothing this evening, thank you.
Nov/ Vanderhoef?.
Vanderhoef/ Well, I'm going to do a commercial tonight. As a representative from Council
to the Iowa City-Coralville Convention and Visitors' Bureau, I'd like to remind the
members out there that the new membership year is starting, and they will be coming
around with a new membership packet for everyone, and the year goes from December
1 through November 31 of 1998. There are many new benefits for being a member of
the Visitor and Convention Bureau, and I invite everyone to either call the office, or
watch closely for their reminder in the mail. And one other second thing, as long as
I'm doing support for various things, is to remind everybody that we're having
Homecoming in our community this weekend. And we want to put our best foot
forward to welcome back all the previous students to the University and have a safe
and happy Homecoming weekend. That's it.
Nov/ Safe, happy, and preferably sober.
Vanderhoef/ And a winning game.
Nov/ Go Hawks.
Norton/ Are you riding on a float, by any chance?
Baker/ I have nothing, Madam Mayor.
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Nov/ Oh, okay. I have just one little thing. We have been, I have been requested to talk
about City government issues, City election issues, for a sixth grade class at Lucas
School, and I want to say that City Council members do this kind of thing regularly,
and if there are other classes that would like to have somebody from our Council come
and talk to them, we're available.
Norton/ I'm doing a second-grade class at Roosevelt.
Thornberry/ Missed that class?
Baker/ Mister Arkins and I did a Journalism class today at the University of Iowa.
Kubby/ And I got you guys that gig, I'll let you lmow.
Baker/ Hey, it was Abbot and Costello. We were great.
Thornberry/ Who's on first?
Nov/ Okay. I just wanted people to know we do other things besides sitting around in this
neat meeting.
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October 21, 1997
ITEM NO. 15.
City of Iowa City Page 12
REPORT ON ITEMS FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND CITY ATTORNEY.
a. City Manager.
b. City Attorney.
ITEM NO. 16.
ADJOURNMENT.
#15b page 1
ITEM NO. 15b REPORT ON ITEMS FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Nov/ City Attorney?
Dilkes/ As I told Naomi today, we're interviewing assistants next week.
ten, and hopefully we'll get some of them on board.
Nov/ And they had what size applicants?
Kubby/ (Can't understand).
Thornberry/ Twenty-five.
Dilkes/ Yes.
Nov/ Sounds good.
We're interviewing
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City Council Meeting Schedule
and Tentative ~/ork Session Agendas
October t8 - October 24, t997
October 17, 1997
[] = Telecast Live on Cable Channel 4
October 20
7:00p
~4ondayI
COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Council Chambers
7:00p
7:15p
7:45p
8:00p
8:20p
8:35p
8i45p
Review Zoning Matters
Peninsula Development
Benton Street/Riverside Drive Intersection
Winter 1997/1998 Iowa City Deer Management Plan
Corps of Engineers' Section 216 Coralville Reservoir Study
WooIf Avenue Bridge Update
Council Agenda/Council Time
October 2t
7:00p
FORMAL COUNCIL MEETING
TuesdayI
Council Chambers
Keg Ordinance
Hickory Hill West
Water Project Costs
Waste Pickup - 4-Plexes
Chutes and Vaults
Sales Tax
FUTURE WORK SESSION ITEMS
Landfill Master Plan
Sand Point Wells
DARE Program Review
Sanitary Sewer Repair - New Policy Update
Cemetery Update