Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-01-22 TranscriptionJanuary 22, 1996 Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Fowler, Yucuis, Logsden, Dollman, Davidson, O'Malley. Tapes: 96-8, Side 2; 96-11, all; 96-12, Side 1. Emergency Management Committee 96-8 S2 Nov/ We have Ernie on the Johnson County Emergency Management Committee and he is not able to go because it is a Wednesday. Do we people here who are available on Wednesday .... 7:30. council/ (All talking). Nov/ It is one Wednesday a month. Norton/ One Wednesday a month. Nov/ So everybody think about this and see if you can spare one Wednesday a month .... should be someone from Iowa City. Budqet Discussion 96-8 S2 Atkins/ Tonight's discussion is intended .... issue of Transit .... issues of Parking and other city related expenditures throughout our budget will likely occur. You have from me a list of issues memo... outline what I thought were the things that were of importance to your discussion .... options... Let us know if you are trying to frame a particular issue ..... Just so you understand, when we review budget we were fully aware that the General Fund (GF) was going to be severely limited this year and its primary culprit is the rollback where by we have virtually lost all increase in residential value by way of the increase in the rollback. Norton/ Doesn't it, in fact, still go up 4.5%? Atkins/ That was my next point... Our available revenue increased substantially due to new construction. But the new values, we were unable to capture those. We have adopted, at least internally ..... if the federal money goes away there is a commensurate reduction in particular service .... Marianne Milkman has announced her retirement in May .... we do not intend to fill that position until such time we have a better feel on what is going to happen. Housing Rehab is somewhat the same way ...... overwhelmingly financed by federal monies... Our financial condition as a city is sound. Our operating cash is okay ..... Our bond rating is sound .... Proposing a budget Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of Jenuary 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 2 that reduces taxes on the average residential property even though we are at the maximum of our tax rate. Now, I have assumed in the budget that the state won't do anymore damage to us with respect to our available property tax. However, there is discussion occurring now about freezing the rates. I don't know that that means .... freezing the rates and allowing the rollback to go back to 67.5- I spoke with a couple of legislators over the weekend .... and they it is not going to happen ..... Dick..° he is on top of our local tax issues... As you review the Transit budget, if you choose to add back any service .... if you choose to add any new position, it will have to come from somewhere else in the GF. I need to know what you want done ..... There are three major factors in Transit; $180,000 fare increase; $150,000 night service; and $150,000 SEATS increase. I think those are the three major factors ..... Kubby/ I thought it was $165,000 for SEATS. Is that changing? Atkins/ I just tried to round it... Fare is $187,000; .... SEATS is about $165,000. $150,000 is something that we can live with. Norton/ ...I figure night could go up to $180- depending on how you slice it. Atkins/ Norton/ Thornberry/ Does Ames have a SEATS program? Atkins/ Sure ..... Also keep in mind that this is clearly an issue that policy and finance are hand in glove. A change in policy can be interpreted into financial implications .... Ames... Baker/ Can you explain why originally estimated at $228,000 and back down to $150- What happened there? Atkins/ We did a consumption ... the maintenance reasonably good couple of things... re-figured our fuel 2- We made some internal changes .... some of costs. Made certain assumptions... We have a contingency in the budget, about $200,000 Norton/ Does that change that $44 an hour? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 3 Atkins/ I don't think so ..... I think there are other factors that you have to figure in the thing .... re-worked that number and we are comfortable with $150- Kubb¥/ The total Transit budget including SEATS. What is our total number? Atkins/ $3,133,306 .... total expenditures. Kubby/ This is just FY97 .... FY98 you have another big chunk. Atkins/ We will encourage you during our discussion that you have to use the three year plan because the federal moneys .... The GF contribution this year goes up dramatically next year ......... Norton/ How do you get the $3,113- figure because I see that on eliminating evening service? I see $3,288-. .... The $3,133- would be without evening service, I believe .... Oh, you wanted it without evening service. Atkins/ That is what was proposed, yeah, and add in the SEATS. The SEATS budget came in after we submitted this budget to you. $3,133 plus $150 is $3,288- The increase in SEATS. We had budgeted it at 3% increase in SEATS. The proposal we got from the county was about 30% ..... Norton/ Really substantial. Atkins/ The $3,288,306 includes a full SEATS budget as proposed by the county. Norton/ .... Transit... it acts like we are dealing with a zero sum game within the Transit .... Supposed I branched out a bit in the... cemetery. Atkins/ Cemetery budget is a GF budget and it generates income- Norton/ It says $27,000; $173,000 out of the GF and $27-8 out of the operating- Atkins/ We have chosen to make Transit an Enterprise Fund although heavily funded by property taxes ..... I think the important thing that was decided at that time was- This is almost not a new issue because about eight years ago it was federal revenue sharing we were using to subsidize Transit ..... That is just simply bookkeeping. Could it just simply be incorporated into Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowe City council meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 4 the operating budget? Yeah, it would be a little more difficult to track. Norton/ You could relieve the pressure on the General Operating by one way, less of another. Arkins/ The point is if you choose to restore a service it is going to have to come from either a revenue source or somewhere in the GF. Norton/ ..oGF is there to provide services, not just to sit on. Atkins/ Absolutely .... Ron Logsden/ A~es has a paratransit to go along with their fixed route service .... Thornberry/ Is that a county wide? Logsden/ It is city... in house in the city of Ames... cost per ride high ..... They provide service 18 hours per day. They have got more ridership .... two.. cost is higher per ride. Norton/ Their fixed route is 18 hours a day, seven days a week. Logsden/ Correct so they have to run paratransit that same amount of time. That artificially inflates their cost per ride. Kubby/ Do we have any kind of projection? .... By law we have a two hour window ..... A lot of people who are riding at peak time are getting to work .... I don't know what our window is right now. Do we guarantee people within 5-10 minutes? Part of what we could look at is our window on the fixed route is half hour ....... That the window for paratransit could be the same for fixed route. Would it make any difference in our costs...? Jeff Davidson/ Karen, I think the complimentary paratransit van .... says one hour before and one hour after .... SEATS... tries to get them there on time. If it is a trip that is not so time sensitive .... they are already using that flexibility depending on the trip purpose. Kubby/ Thornberry/ As far as Transit is concerned .... I have never heard of a town that has more transit available to its people than Iowa City, Iowa. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Ci~ council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 5 Kubby/ You haven't lived in a big city. Thornberry/ Stillwater, Oklahoma is a college town .... could we have someone call the City of Stillwater, Oklahoma and see what they got for transit ..... Kubby/ Why do you pack them?... Do you have a connection there? Thornberry/ Yeah .... I would like to know how people get around in Stillwater ..... Council/ (All talking). Thornberry/ They have no buses, they have no transit, they have no SEATS .... people get around just fine. Baker/ Thornberry/ I would like to see what they have now. All I am saying is we may not need everything that we have got ..... gets to the point where you can't afford everything. Kubby/ We put a lot of money into .... cars .... So we end up taking a stance that maybe not everybody can have everything for Transit, I would hope that you would have those same kind of philosophies about private vehicles and about any other auto transportation. Thornberry/ Just because you don't have five different ways of getting to work, doesn't mean you don't have to shovel the streets ..... Norton/ Thornberry/ I am just saying I don't know who have anything better as far as Transit... It gets to the point where we may not be able to afford everything we got. Kubby/ Other people would say we have a very bare bone system .... Thornberry/ This is not a bare bones. Norton/ Got to look at the people who need the bus. Thornberry/ Okay, Dee, where are we going to get all the money? Norton/ Thisrepresents only a reasonably eccuratetranscriptton of thelowa City council meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 6 Baker/ I am confused by where we are going here. Thornberry/ All I am saying is I don't think we need all of the... public transportation that we got. Nov/ Do you have a proposal about how to amend it? Thornberry/ Just brainstorming here. I am asking for other options. Nov/ Are you thinking the staff proposal to end evening service at 7:00 is reasonable? Thornberry/ I think it is reasonable ..... I think there could be something worked out possibly with the University. Is that possible? Kubby/ Not for this next year... you have a totally different kind of service. You have a no fare service .... difficult to merge those two ..... Nov/ ...when the city buses have stopped running, the University still services Hawkeye Apartments. If city bus never went as far as Hawkeye Apartments, CAMBUS would serve it ..... they pick up the difference. If we stopped at 7:00, they would start serving that area at 7:00 instead of 10:00. Kubby/ It is a question to ask. Norton/ I have a proposal. I think we ought to... look at the fare increase first ....... Nothing has happened since '87... a place we might start. See if we can some agreement on the fare increase .... night thing, I don't want to see it go to zero. I think you can invent a couple of routes... I don't see dropping the night service all together. You saw the letter from Social Services .... Nov/ We may pick up on one or two areas that need night service. We may also cut the hours of SEATs service. We are required to serve the same number of hours that the city buses right now. Norton/ ...hit a shift change at P & G. I would want to be able to pick people up from d.t. who come off the hospital shift late .... and then start seeing where the money comes from. That would be my notion ..... fare increases justify. Nov/ Does anyone else have a comment on the fare increase? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 7 Baker/ We ought to focus on the fare increase...$.757 Norton/ I am talking $.75 .... convince me that $.60 is enough. Baker/ $.75 ain't going to pay for it. Norton/ I have got the GF there in the back pocket. Baker/ Atkins/ It hadn't gone up in 10-11 years. Easier to administer three quarters than two quarters and a dime .... We were scratching around trying to find income in the Transit system and $.75 calculated out better ..... Baker/ Any discussion of a policy of $.60 with a resolution that rate increase would... $.60, then .65 next year, .70, then .75, slowly work in the- Atkins/ We talked about it. Council/ (All talking). Nov/ You lose some ridership with $.60 and again at $.65 and again at $.75. Lehman/ Joe, you made this point... that you have this negative impact every single year that you have the increase .... let's have one and get it out of the way .... Baker/ I understand the point .... Joe Fowler/ The other one that we looked most seriously at was a dime, a dime, and a nickel. A three year phase in. And the percentage loss was slightly less at the end of a three years period of time but Ron talked to Ames and Ames tried the same thing and they had almost as negative impact with a small increase and they recommended that we go with a large increase. That it would be a one time and a one tie adjustment. They felt it was a better way to put in the fare .... Baker/ Seems like a contradictory statement .... Fowler/ Norton/ This represents only areasonably accuratetranscription oftholowa CIw council mestlngofJanua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Logsden/ Des Moines .... from $.75 to a $1.00 with · highly ti increase .... transfers are elas c .... correctly .... confusion among the public .... Page 8 their fare market it Nov/ I talked to people who come to Iowa City from another city... they expect a $1.00 ..... Vanderhoef/ I spoke with quite a few people who work d.t .... they were comparing the bus price with what they would have to pay for a parking ramp for a permit. They said they would much prefer having a $1.00 fee ..... It is still worth it .... Kubby/ I would be totally against doubling our fares. Vanderhoef/ This is an argument for ~.75 as far as I can see. Lehman/ ...hate to see it to go up 50% but I don't think it is unreasonable .... Thornberry/ What have the taxi cabs gone up in the last five years? ..... I don't see anything wrong with $.75. Davidson/ ...both cab companies have increased their rates over the last few years. We have seen that in our supplemental cab service. Norton/ Is Coralville going up? They say they are ..... Nov/ The letter from Jim Fausett seemed pretty convincing that they are going up and they did asked to .. be informed... Baker/ Dee introduced a parallel topic here... relationship to the parking d.t. and one of the things that would help my thinking on this .... add one more column which is their parking rates compared to transit rates. I know you have got this somewhere. Bill Dollman/ Ames, Dubuque, Davenport,... year old. On street, ramp rates, permits. What do you- Baker/ Ramp in particular. Dollman/ I can make copies of these .... Kubby/ So we are doing ramp rates? Vanderhoef/ Permit ramp rates or just ramp rates? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22.1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 9 Dollman/ Ames starts off $.50 for the first hour, 2nd-4th hours $.50; $.25 after four hours through 16 hours. $5.00 max. Arkins/ On Ames it says... this is not a ramp owned by the city. It is owned by the University. Nov/ That is not a fair comparison. Kubby/ Go through this as quickly as we can. Dollman/ Cedar Rapids- $.40 an hour, $.30 in outlying ramps. Des Moines rates vary... minimum rate for first hour ..... Atkins/ They also in their Parking Fund transfer into their Transit system. Dollman/ Dubuque $.25 first hour ..... $.45 hour after first two hours ' , no maximum ..... Atkins/ And they do not transfer money. Ames does not transfer. Davenport does not. Des Moines does. Kubby/ Two part question when we are talking about fares. I don't feel myself feeling uncomfortable about going to $.75. I would like to see us not go as high as $24-25 for the pass though. I would like to see the pass be a better deal than it currently is so that more people buy the pass and more people use the pass. Maybe the pass show go from $18 to $20 or $22 to make that pass a better deal relative to the increase. Norton/ It is already a better deal relative to the increase .... Nov/ Kubby/ I am talking about the number of rides you get for the cost of the pass. I am interested in not going up to the proposed $25. That is my point and I would rather see it at maybe $20 .... NOV/ Norton/ Kubby/... you have to ride multiple times a day almost to make the pass worthwhile. My goal is to make it take fewer trips to make the pass a valuable option ..... Get more people on the bus ..... Thisrepresents only orsasonably accuratotranscrlptton ofthelowa City council moetlngofJanuo~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 10 Nov/ If for example you were working 22 days a month and if you charge $22 for the pass. It is costing you only $1.00 a day to go to work .... it is a bargain .... Baker/ Atkins/ That is what is in the budget, $.75 and $25 pass ..... Joe has a calculation on what loss of revenue would be if you lower that pass. I need to know what you want us to calculate. Kubby/ I was saying $20. Naomi is arguing for a higher number. Nov/ I am arguing for $24 ..... Atkins/ Joe, for each dollar loss in the pass, how much revenue- So each dollar it goes down, we lose $12,0000 So if we had... $.75 and $20., your revenue would be $120,000. Thereby, $60,000 shortfall. Nov/ Once more. Atkins/ For each dollar it goes down ..... is $12,000 lost revenue. Therefore is you had a $.75 fare and a $20 pass, the total revenue for the Transit fund would be $120,000. Thereby, you would have a $60,000 hole in the budget. Kubby/ All of this is so hard ..... Atkins/ Fowler/ We have historically sold approximately 1000 passes per month. So this would be based on continuing to sell the same number of permits. Norton/ ...if you could up the number of passes .... might knock off some of that 17% loss that you are concerned about... Is a certain tradeoff... merit of thinking about possibility of a lower ..... Encourage more people onto the bus. Fowler/ The advantage with the monthly permit would be you would sell more permits... encourage people to ride more. State funding is based on the number of people that ride ..... $.18 a ride that we get from the state. Then you get the money up front and month's worth of interest. So there is some advantages. Thornberry/ Karen, I would be willing to accept a considerable Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of January 22.1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 11 lower figure than $25, taking into consideration the whole budget ..... It means not doing something else within that budget. There is only so much budget there .... You want a lot of things for a lot of people... I would be willing to go with a lesser figure than $25... got to be made up somewhere else. I am just bringing that out .... Norton/ What about trying it .... substantial break on passes...? Kubby/ The big overall concern I have about Transit system, is I see the Transit system as a very integral part of how people get around town. We have 1 1/2 million ridership .... fares are very steady .... number of riders is staying same ..... That can be the beginning of a downward spiral for the whole system .... We look at our ridership figures .... have to cut service more.. pretty soon you have eliminated your transit service .... based on figures. This, for me, is part of a prevention program for that downward spiral .... Way of preventing that spiral of being so sharply down turned. Thornberry/ Has that thousand permits per year been pretty constant for the last five years? Would you agree that we need to raise the single rate? Kubby/ .... Go to $.75. Thornberry/ Given that we raise these rates to $.75 and say we keep the pass at $22, you are saying then that it is such a great deal that they are going to be buying more. How many more? Norton/ We don't know .... Thornberry/ How many more passes do we need to sell to make up the difference? Council/ (All talking). Thornberry/ We could look at this next year... Norton/ My idea that if we put it in for awhile, Dean, we could always move that pass fare up .... I am trying to look for something that we are just taking every minute ..... natives are going to get restless. Lehman/ We are subsidizing to the tune of 80% of the cost of the bus system .... Thisrepresents only ereesonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of January 22,1996. W$012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 12 Norton/ I agree with Karen, it is a vital service. I think it is like having a street to ride on. Nov/ It is a vital service. Thornberry/ I never said we didn't need bus service ..... We are going to have some kind of a bus service and we are going to have some kind of a paratransit service. That is not even considered. Baker/ There are connection between any decision here... financial consequences of the overall budget. But there is also connections between service decisions that we make here on other aspects of living in Iowa City ..... People that don't ride the bus anymore still have transportation needs ..... Kubby/ We have been give that number 400 more trips d.t. that won't be on the bus if it is going to be done in another way. It is hard to know what percentage of those will be in a private vehicle .... reduce that number .... Vanderhoef/ .... consider raising rate on outlying meters .... or raising rate on permit. That that 400 maybe not be 400 .... it will still be a better deal to be on the bus .... Kubby/ Only if it is there to ride. Vanderhoef/ That 400 may disappear into 200 if we also go into raising some rates on some of the meters .... Norton/ Is that 400 a consequence of the rate increase soles or combined deal? Fowler/ Rate increase. Norton/ Kubby/ You have got to also increase the elimination of night service .... Norton/ I am still holding fire on that one .... raise... $.75... Then increase pass... compromise... $22 and Larry, don't you have a thing about parking? Baker/ There seems to be a consensus developing that we haven't made a decision going to $.75 ..... We are going to raise the monthly passes to I would say $22- Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 13 CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-11 SIDE 1 Nov/ Third increase instead of a 50% increase .... Kubby/ What we are suppose to be doing here tonight is not making decisions .... There are maybe two.. three choices .... I think the other thing is my inclination to look at a $.75 fare is predicated on not losing all of the night service. I will not support an increase in fare if there is also a complete elimination of night service. Lehman/ What are our options on that? Council/ (All talking). Norton/ You compliment the Coralville route... compliment CAMBUS .... want to ask Larry... I thought you were going to talk about the Capital Ramp rate or Dubuque Ramp rate .... Baker/ I am reluctant to talk too much about parking .... I don't see... support to change the parking rate. Norton/ Baker/ I don't see this council- Surprise me. Nov/ I think you may be surprised some day. Lehman/ The idea of the differential between the two ramps .... is to encourage folks to park in Dubuque Street Ramp... does make a difference. We have more people parking there than we did before. The different rates does do... what we want it to do. Baker/ It is my supposition that you could change it a nickel and it wouldn't change the parking patterns now. Lehman/ When we changed the rates between the two parking ramps, was there a change in usage from one ramp to the other. Fowler/ Between the lower rate and the all day cap on the rate we were able to change parking patterns and move all day parkers from the Capital Street Ramp to the Dubuque Street Ramp .... no parking 6:00 AM to 10:00 encouraged that even more. Nov/ That probably had a bigger affect... Baker/ Are you saying if we raised it to $.50, they would all come This represents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City coundl meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 14 back to Capital? Fowler/ I think that restriction will keep a lot of them out Norton/ .... seems to be a relatively minor difference .... other methods of urging them out of the Capital Street Ramp. Nov/ We have urged them over the Chauncey Swan also .... Fowler/ Chauncey Swan is set at $.30 and that is to encourage people even more to park further out and walk. Vanderhoef/ My experience of Chauncey Swan .... just about the same depending on what direction you are going... I would think Chauncey Swan could go up. Fowler/ Chauncey Swan... Central Business District...is a half a block on the outside .... Vanderhoef/ And it is at $.30 now... Nov/ What was the proposal on that? Fowler/ The proposal was $.40. Vanderhoef/ That one seems reasonable to me .... Baker/ Inclination to even discuss parking rates here?... I agree. Atkins/ Can I give some focus to the debate? Nobody is locked in but we are getting close to kind of package this thing so that you can peck away at something. I am hearing $.75... that is not so bad .... agreements are tentative... Thornberry/ $.75 sounds good but no vote. Atkins/ So you can move on and I offer $22- Kubby/ As an option for people to give us feedback about, yes. Vanderhoef/ $22 and $24, please. Atkins/ Dee, my point in having one is I am trying to create a shorter list of targets. You still get another chance to move this thing around .... I am not telling you you are locked in. Nov/ Our original premise was there would be more than one option Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription oftholowe City council meeting of Janusu 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 15 on the p.h. You don't want to say $22. You want to say $22 and $24 or something- Arkins/ But you will never then come to any kind of target. Then all you have to go on is what the budget proposal is and you have already collectively indicated that you want to make amendments in that budget package. You could write options forever ..... You need to have some kind of focus. Nov/ Can we have two numbers is what I am asking? Atkins/ I would prefer you not to .... Kubby/ Talk later tonight about service provision... maybe you will get more people to say yes to $24 if there is more night service... $.75, $22 and this much service .... Norton/ I agree with Naomi that we were going to discussion options ... at the hearing. Baker/ ...changes in Transit. Start talking about changes in parking rates .... Atkins/ That is your call. Nov/ We can do that ourselves. Atkins/ One of the decisions that you have is to confirm that you are going to transfer $90,000 again. It has to be confirmed... What I am suggesting is a tentative agreement: $.75 fare, $22 pass tentatively .... You just created a $36,000 hole for yourselves. Norton/ Looking at a nickel on that ramp ..... Atkins/ So you have fare at $.75 .... pass at $22 and that is different than the budget proposal... have to come up with another $36,000. Nov/ If we decide we are going to have some night service, how at that point do we decide to do this. We have Lakeside.. Towncrest/Oakcrest .... higher ridership .... Do we say okay, because they have a higher ridership, those are the two we are going to select because we don't want to cut out all four. Other wise we can say we know that this particular location has people working late .... and we serve locations ..... Coralville runs, I think, until midnight mainly because they This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WSO 12296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 16 are serving that last shift at the hospital. Are we going to design a route or we just going to pick up what we have? Atkins/ Do I hear you collectively or at least a majority saying that complete elimination of night time service is out of the question? Council/ (Yes- all talking). Atkins/ What I am going to put up here is that you have a tentative you are considering about partially restoring it. [ On Board: Nov/ This Tentative A~reements $.75 fare $22 pass Partial restoration of night service] is what I am hearing. Atkins/ If you agree that you are going to partially restore it, how are you going to do it? ..... If there are four votes that no way, we are going to leave it the way it is-understand me? Then you are saying that we want to partially restore this. Kubby/ I disagree with that language totally .... You are saying your proposed budget is reality- Arkins/ The proposed budget is reality for the moment. You just changed the proposed budget with that tentative agreement. You have to have a target .... I hear you saying I want to restore some of it. Nov/ I think I hear four people saying that. Kubby/ Norton/ The question of how to get that done... technical question- Council/ (All talking). Baker/ Is anybody advocating we cut out all the night time service is what I am asking? Norton/ Got to see what it costs .... Arkins/ I heard you say that complete elimination of night service is not acceptable. That is $150,000 if you were to just bring Thisrepresents only aroasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 17 the whole thing back ..... Now I am hearing what are some of the ideas .... Nov/ Kubby/ Do we want to look at- When we say we are going to look at how people are using the service right now, we leave no room for opportunities for people who currently aren't riding to ride ..... if we design our routes for people who currently are riding already. That doesn't seem prudent to me to design our system only for the current pattern of ridership. Thornberry/ Don't understand how you are going to raise rates... get more people to ride? Nov/ Start putting your meters enforced 24 hours a day ..... People do choose to ride the bus to and from work .... If you are going to the library after 5:00 PM, you park in Chauncey Swan free .... it fills up every night. Let's be realistic, people choose to drive at night .... Norton/ Let's talk a minute. Steve, it is hard to sit here and collectively invent a program of bus routes. Seems to me you say this is what we need and you guys have all the wisdom about where they live or where they don't .... Take two hours and run them 4 1/2 hours because I think you have to pick up 11:30 .... people coming out of the hospital, come d.t .... how are they going to do? .... $150,000 we are talking about which is conservative, I figured it at $180- You are half way home. Atkins/ You have five buses operating at four routes, four hours a day at five days a week. Okay. That is going away. Now I am hearing you say that some sort of a routes or routes must be maintained. Norton/ I think so. Atkins/ Now, is it preferable to take the four existing routes and do away with two that has the lowest ridership and leave the other two or do you design two new routes? Lehman/ I think that is your call. Kubby/ No because it is not even that simple. Ron and I talked about the possibility of Broadway Street ... half of the North Dodge... go to Forest View section of Manville Hts. route and come back then and go out to Broadway .... Some route may be Thlsrepresentsonly areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCitycouncil meetingofJanuary22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18 less frequent than other routes .... feasible.. or fair. Atkins/ .... Kubby/ Even saying the amount we are going to pay for night service is cut in half. Can we design routes that give you more than 50% of the current service with 50% of the money? Thornberry/ You people are the ones that know the ridership, not Norton/ I look at the thing .... Southeast part of town has a lot of bus riders... invent two routes... make an odd swing. Atkins/ It is wide open for your discussion .... discussing the policy of the level of service provided on the system ..... If you said to me you have got a $75,000 night time budget, serve as many people as you can, we can design a route for that. Somebody who used to get service won't get it anymore ..... Kubby/ Norton/ May not get it with quite the frequency .... Vanderhoef/ I want to know what kind of ridership we have after 8:00 PM. Fowler/ We don't have those numbers. Vanderhoef/ Fowler/ We have after 6:30. Those are the night time numbers that we have. Kubby/ You don't break it down by the hour? Fowler/ We started to last week to start breaking them down by the hour .... Norton/ .... questionnaire... some information might be gathered between now and February 6? Fowler/ I left it like last week's figures .... Most of buses doing 40-60 passengers a night ..... Baker/ What happen to the survey concept? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19 Fowler/ Decided we didn't have enough time to get the information together to get it back to you for the meeting tonight. Norton/ We might be able to answer some questions .... Baker/ Thornberry/ At least they are doing the ridership per hour. Davidson/ May be some existing data .... We have a lot of existing information. We have done on board surveys as recently as '91. Norton/ If there was no bus service, 7:00. Which of the following Iowa City bus service, after alternatives would you use? Davidson/ For example, our on board surveys during the rush hour .... most of those folks have other alternatives available. During mid-day and during the evening have many fewer alternatives for people... Norton/ We got a note from Johnson County Social Service... they list 300 people in Systems Unlimited, Goodwill, etc... Council/ (All talking). Vanderhoef/ I called and inquired about that... they meant... they have no clue by what they mean regular... Baker/ I thought the purpose of the survey was to see if ..... we could determine who is transit dependent .... He had literally no option except the bus... The questions were suppose to be framed that way. Norton/ Do you want to see my questions...? Thornberry/ One of the questions was if it wasn't available at this time, how would you- But we don't have those. Baker/ Davidson/ Larry, I can tell you that I have heard from several folks last week .... that intend to come to the hearing and tell you that if you cut service in the evening, they won't be able to get around .... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscrlption ofthelowa Clty councilmeetlng of Janusry 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20 Baker/ ...If you have made the decision to come to the p.h ..... going to try to influence us this particular way ....... Phrase it a different way outside this chamber and you might get a more full answer .... I know what the p.h. will tell us .... Norton/ Back to work .... Baker/ I thought that was what we were doing. Nov/ I think there are people .... whose alternative if there weren't a bus, would be taxis and how many there are is what we really don't know. Kubby/ Can they afford a taxi ..... Nov/ I am making the assumption that they cannot afford a taxi or they would not be on the bus. I think that is a valid assumption. Kubby/ I don't choose to make that assumption .... Nov/ I really believe that if they had the money to own an automobile they probably would own an automobile. They would not have the bus as their only source of transportation. Baker/ Is it worth staff's energy to try to determine... that information. Kubby/ I think we should find out what options people have. Norton/ I would be happy to work with them on Wednesday .... to put this together. But I want to be sure the information that you guys want... I thought the question was how frequently do you use it? How essential is it? What are your alternatives? .... Thornberry/ Do we have time? Norton/ What night would you want to get it? Thornberry/ At least by the p.h. Norton/ Baker/ Get the information to us. Norton/ If we get it Thursday night this week, wouldn't that be soon enough. When do you want to do the survey? We want to do This represents only areasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. W$012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21 it on the bus. Kubby/ Norton/ Can you do it and how much do you want to summarize it? Thornberry/ I will take the north route if you take the south route. Norton/ If the council wants a little survey, I think we can do it. ...... Jeff has interns that can help, I think. Nov/ Have a survey card... Thornberry/ I thought it was somebody there that just read the thing... get 100% answers. Norton/ Is this realistic for the staff, Steve. I don't know .... Arkins/ Can you do it? Norton/ ...we want to get something that is really worthwhile. council/ (All talking). Atkins/ If you wish to have a survey and the notes that I made are what are the options by riders ..... If your policy position is we are going to restore at least partially. I don't see there is any choice of that ..... knowing full well you are not going to be able to serve everyone. Vanderhoef/ What I would like to know is counts from 7:00 and 8:00 and lump everything after that. Atkins/ As long as I think we understand that it will be truly a survey ..... Baker/ Also... pick the budget figure tonight that you are willing to live with and direct staff to get the most service out of that budget figure then you don't need that information immediately because you have made a money decision, not a service .... Norton/ .... I would prefer to see them invent a new route .... Vanderhoef/ Whose to say the most bang for your buck might not be Thisrepresents only ereesonably eccur~etranscrlption ofthelowe City council meeting of Jenua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 22 in those couple of early evening hours and skip all late hours. Thornberry/ My question was how late do you want these buses to run? Kubby/ Atkins/ 11:00 is the current system. Norton/ What does that mean...? Atkins/ 10:30 is the last one. You said 11:30, that adds to the route. Norton/ I understand that .... you got to catch the mid-shift changes. Atkins/ .... I would suggest that you move onto another topic. Kubby/ You have kind of X'd out that $75,000. I would like to see a couple of different options to present to the public. Atkins/ Why I dropped that number .... is that when we tentative agreements, I want you know okay, there problem... finish these is my budget Norton/ I think you are going to find it hard to get there to get two routes that do you any good for $75,000. Kubby/ I am interested in having a couple of options ...... Atkins/ I want to give you some ideas on what you might have to do .... Norton/ .... trying to raise a little bit out of the ramp .... I don't think that would kill people ..... Nov/ Buses... I have a question which someone gave to me as a potential for increasing income to Transit by selling a charter bus service to school systems. I was told that the schools... parents of the band at City High pay $300 to take the band d.t. to march in the Homecoming parade and then back to City High ..... may be cheaper to charter a city bus but I don't know. Davidson/ Unfortunately we are hamstrung by federal regulations to Thts represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23 protect private charter operators. Any charter service for Iowa City and Coralville and CAMBUS gets a request, they have to essentially offer it to, we have a list of private operators .... Anything remotely lucrative .... And if Iowa City Transit is willing to do it for less, that cannot be a factor. The commercial private operator gets to have their rate, Nov/ So the individual who is asking for a charter bus does not make that decision? Davidson/ Price cannot be a factor ..... Thornberry/ Why couldn't they use school buses? Nov/ They do use school buses... Iowa City Coach... charges them $300 ...... this is a way that the city can make up some of the losses... Kubby/ A lot of this issue is the increase in providing public transportation via paratransit. We have a figure. That may or may not be the figure that we end up paying because that is kind of the technical formulated number... political process of negotiating a contract. in my mind that number is flexible .... possibility that Iowa City tax payers pay for paratransit through our payment and then the second time through their county taxes for the county section of the payment and can we figure out what that magic factor number is to take that technical formulated of percentage of time as a fair assumption of our fair share of providing number for the system minus that double payment factor to get a more realistic real number of what Iowa City tax payers are paying. I am interested in us directing staff to look at that issue again to work with the Auditor or whoever to figure out what is that fair factor we should be decreasing because of that double pa~nuent in taxes. Atkins/ I have been trying to find out for a long time. Nov/ It is not difficult really .... The county GF has about 50% of its income from urban tax payers ..... So we incorporate the number of urban tax payers, percentage of urban tax payers very easily. Kubby/ .... ask staff to spend a little bit of time to see if it is possible to look at that number because that would decrease our increase in cost for paratransit and it could be $30,000 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 MICROFILMED BY C -ST TECHNOLOGIES .......... "' AKF ..... 84 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23 protect private charter operators. Any charter service for Iowa City and Coralville and CAMBUS gets a request, they have to essentially offer it to, we have a list of private operators .... Anything remotely lucrative .... And if Iowa City Transit is willing to do it for less, that cannot be a factor. The commercial private operator gets to have their rate, Nov/ So the individual who is asking for a charter bus does not make that decision? Davidson/ Price cannot be a factor ..... Thornberry/ Why couldn't they use school buses? Nov/ They do use school buses... Iowa City Coach... charges them $300 ...... this is a way that the city can make up some of the losses.°. Kubby/ A lot of this issue is the increase in providing public transportation via paratransit. We have a figure. That may or may not be the figure that we end up paying because that is kind of the technical formulated number... political process of negotiating a contract. in my mind that number is flexible .... possibility that Iowa City tax payers pay for paratransit through our payment and then the second time through their county taxes for the county section of the payment and can we figure out what that magic factor number is to take that technical formulated of percentage of time as a fair assumption of our fair share of providing number for the system minus that double payment factor to get a more realistic real number of what Iowa City tax payers are paying. I am interested in us directing staff to look at that issue again to work with the Auditor or whoever to figure out what is that fair factor we should be decreasing because of that double payment in taxes. Atkins/ I have been trying to find out for a long time. Nov/ It is not difficult really .... The county GF has about 50% of its income from urban tax payers ..... So we incorporate the number of urban tax payers, percentage of urban tax payers very easily. Kubby/ .... ask staff to spend a little bit of time to see if it is possible to look at that number because that would decrease our increase ~n cost for paratransit and it could be $30,000 Thisrepresents only areesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24 Norton/ Suppose you had that number .... would that necessarily lead to a renegotiated contract? Kubby/ I don't know. If we say we don't want to pay $603- or $613- .... then there is a negotiating process that goes on. Having that number ..... makes us more powerful in our negotiating position .... This is a different year... We have never really gone in with a specific number... that we have come up with a specific number to propose. Atkins/ We have proposed numbers in the past. Kubby/ In terms of the double duty payments? Atkins/ ...the difficulty I have in negotiating with the county on this is that you get differing stories .... I don't know where I am negotiating from to end up anywhere .... I don't know whether the number is truly fair or not .... In fact, if we are using the service to the extent that they report that we are then we have policy questions to answer .... Kubby/ What is going to happen to the number $613- the way it currently is? Atkins/ $613- takes care of everything. Kubby/ In terms of they run the service and we get the complaints Norton/ I have got a $637- somewhere. Atkins/ $637- includes the cab .... $675,3- that is everything. Norton/ So $637- plus the $38-. .... $603 was floating around here earlier. Atkins/ Yes, it was. Logsden/ Basically in the SEATS budget they figure it was $27,810 .... is what comes in in fares .... To come up with the $673,351 .... it includes the revised .... SEATS proposed, then they gave us a revised budget ..... Latest paratransit costs .... Norton/ So, $603- and $27- and $38- for cabs for a total of $675- What is the justification that was presented to us for a 35% · in SEATS? increase ........ Thlsrepresentsoniy areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofJsnua~ 22o1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 25 Fowler/ A six day, five day sample was selected during the month of September...rides from those days were analyzed and then they were assigned by a method based on the percent of services used per entity during those selected days. They took the number of minutes and allocated then to each entity within the system they serve, Iowa City, Coralville, rural, Nelson Center- Norton/ Passenger minute kind of thing. Fowler/ Passenger minute .... then they applied the passenger minutes to the total operating costs which included the labor, the maintenance and that is how we were assigned the amount due, the percent of the total operating budget based on the number of minutes used during the sample time. Kubby/ ...we were thinking that was a fair way .... to assess what our fair share was .... asking them to collect information... monitor this .... We were thinking that we might be overpaying Fowler/ The sample we took doesn't reflect the first quarter statistics so there is still a lot of- The first quarter rides don't reflect the five or six day sample .... Kubby/ Lehman/ This time business .... Fowler/ The way they based this formula was you wouldn't pay anymore for six then one. You pay for the minutes that were assigned to your ride .... cost allocated equally. Norton/ Where do we stand... some data is worse than none... Fowler/ The sample and the first quarter statistics there is a difference in those numbers .... which one is representative of the service- Nov/ We talked about this for a whole year .... Logsden/ ...If we just use the first quarter figures the contract proposal is substantially different .... Baker/ You say the first quarter figures are more accurate. Logsden/ (Can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meetingofJanuary 22.1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26 Logsden/ The numbers that were used in assigning the values on percentage of trips charged to Iowa City, 68.73 ..... The rides by entity first quarter, Iowa City was 55%. Then both of those... Iowa City has been charged a difference in the Nelson Center between what Systems pays and their usage is and so that is first quarter Nelson Center was 17% and during the sample period was 9.57- Nov/ How many people are riding free? I was surprised to see we had an absolute waiver of fares. Fowler/ About 50% of the SEATS actual rides are on the fare and cab rides are even higher percentage than that. Last month our cab bill from the one company was $2,200 and we got $117 back in fares. Baker/ (Can't hear). Fowler/ If we did away with the fare waiver. Nov/ There is one city here that is paying half of the cab fare .... Kubby/ Fowler/ We have 24 hour a day cab service during the time the buses are operating it is a dollar for the cab. When the buses aren't operating it is $2.00 .... Kubby/ With this amount of increase, would we look at the possibility of providing paratransit ourselves .... We were looking at a 1% difference in cost. Does that change any because of this change of percent of ridership that is attributed more to Iowa City? ..... change your recommendation to us .... Davidson/ ... I would say, Karen, my discussion with the county that's an issue they would like you as council to be clear on .... Kubby/ Does our financial position change because of this huge increase attributed to our fair share of riders? .... Does it make it anymore feasible? Arkins/ It changes dramatically. If those numbers they gave us are correct- Our cost for running it as a city as opposed to the county running it ..... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27 CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-11 SIDE 2 Atkins/ If you assume the number of correct... then you have got policy questions .... Kubby/ Also the political process as well in here. Atkins/ Next year you go back out again for an RFP and whole thing would be re-opened again .... Nov/ I think we have to seriously consider a mandatory $1.50 fare and stop this free ride business. We can't afford it. Norton/ Atkins/ I think there is a number of things. First of all we provide a city wide service...2-anybody 60 years old is automatically eligible .... Social service agencies practically don't pay us anything... whole variety of things that we choose to do .... Nov/ If we provide for a firm fare without waiver we can encourage some of those people to ride fixed routes. Atkins/ Intent of the legislation is to get them on the fixed route ..... Nov/ Kubby/ I don't think the choice for our discussion is to charge the full dollar or charge nothing. That might be something in between. Vanderhoef/ Isn't the policy right now double whatever the bus fare is and if we are looking at $.75, then $1.50 .... Kubby/ Talking about for lower income riders .... does the policy have to be full fare or nothing? Do we have an option for our low income policy... sliding scale...? Nov/ At one time... we said we would sell a monthly pass... but we did not enforce it. We still allowed people to ride free .... We either have to say it is $1.50 each way or it is $50 month for a pass or whatever number we pick out. Kubby/ ...people who need the good deal on the pass don't have the $50 up front to pay for the good deal .... This represents only 8 reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28 Baker/ Some accommodation for low income .... Kubby/ Doesn't have to be a 100% break is what I am suggesting. Nov/ Kubby/ Baker/ Is this still part of the same discussion? Going to make the same decision about same time period of SEATS that we do for fixed route on these policy questions here. Kubby/ SEATS is part of our Transit budget. Atkins/ It is part of our Transit budget .... hearing is fixed route only ..... Kubby/ .... difficult to say this change in policy will actually change the dollar figures significantly. Norton/ What are we roughly thinking. If we went to a firm fare .... what would that do? .... Logsden/ If charging a standard fare would reduce the ridership .... If ridership remained level it would be about $30,000. If you went to $1.50, I guess it would be $45,000. Vanderhoef/ We may encourage them to decrease the number of trips .... Kubby/ When we say there is no incentive to combine trips, that may be true... For me because a lot of SEATS drivers are long term employees... not a very fair assessment. I would want some more information from long term drivers .... Is there one individual who takes 12 trips a day on a regular basis... Let's get some information before we start saying things about people ..... Thornberry/ I had a couple of employees that were coming to work by SEATS ..... Norton/ Nov/ Young people who were considered mentally disabled or emotionally disabled... Those people are capable of riding a fixed route. A lot of disabilities here who are riding SEATS and I would like to say some of them can be encouraged by cost This represents only a roasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WSO 12296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29 to ride the fixed route .... Norton/What is the SEATS activity at night look like? .... We have to run this now at least parallel to our fixed route .... Kubby/ Proposal is to keep SEATS at the same level. Logsden/ Night ridership we are contracted for two vans if needed. Usually one stays our and the other one comes off about 7:30 or 8:00 if ridership is not there .... We have some $16 one way cab trip because of stop offs .... we have one monthly pass holder that probably rides 40 times week on that pass. There are some instances and there is no way of pulling that. Kubby/ I don't think we should create a policy because of a couple of instances .... With those people we can tell them what the effects of their behavior are .... Lehman/ I understand that we have one rider who spends about $36 a day on cab... Logsden/ Regular occurrence... three or four times a week. Lehman/ I don't understand why we allow this. Logsden/ ... we see it after the fact .... Thornberry/ $36 a day for a cab is outrageous ..... Council./ (All talking). Logsden/ Under the current policy that is allowable I guess ..... Lehman/ Certainly things are not going to be accepted anymore ..... Kubby/ Also takes people power to communicate and to educate and counsel... need to balance that all out .... Baker/ Norton/ I would certainly eliminate that exception at whatever cost. Baker/ Can I get a clarification on age eligibility... People over the age of 60 are automatically eligible to ride the paratransit service? Regardless of physical condition, over 60 you can ride SEATS. Do you have a sense of how many people Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30 actually do it on that basis? Logsden/ Kind of hard to tell... don't give us their disabilities because they know they are automatically eligible ..... council/ (All talking). Logsden/ Norton/ We could move the age up a little, couldn't we? Nov/ It was set up that way by the county that operates the service. Council/ (All talking). Norton/ Can we change that here if the county doesn't?... to 70, let's say? Logsden/ That would be your decision. You don't have to have a number. You could say .... based on disability than age. Thornberry/ Need, not age. Logsden/ There is no magical number, that is your decision. It is totally a local decision ..... in recertification process we are setting up, everybody that gets certified now, gets recertified in July, that would be the time .... Norton/ Hard to convert any of this into a firm dollar figure to put up there ..... Nov/ I think we have to go up to $1.50 ..... We cannot afford to provide this kind of door to door service .... Kubby/ That is fine as long as we have some kind of sliding scale for people who can't afford it ..... Nov/ Did we ever find out what Sioux City difference in cost has done to their ridership? They are charging $6.00 for door to door and $2.00 for curb to curb ..... Logsden/ ADA says you only have to provide curb to curb service ..... No requirement to have door to door service .... Nov/ Do they have a lot of people who are requesting that? This represents only 8 reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31 Logsden/ Basically only people that have to have door to door services are using it .... social service agency are sending out a visiting nurse... or family is there to help .... they have basically taken a hard stand on that and decided they are just doing curb to curb service. Kubby/ People who need door to door service are people with highest medical costs .... don't have that extra money. Comments we here ... beautiful things about SEATS is door to door service Thornberry/ Kubby/ Baker/ .... $1.50 with sliding scale... got guidelines. Nov/ We have guidelines for reduced rates for swimming lessons. Norton/ Spoken earlier about centralized method of doing that .... Nov/ I wouldn't slide below a dollar. Vanderhoef/ I think we should address the cab fares also. Norton/ Kubby/ I think we should get some suggestions from staff. We don't have the information... sliding scales are kind of complicated things .... council/ (All talking). NOV/ We are having at least half of our riders saying they qualify for low income and therefore they pay zero. Baker/ ...something. Do you want to restrict this to handicap only? Nov/ There is somebody who picks up children, Kids on the Go. We have children riding on SEATS to and from Headstart and we are subsidizing them, they are not paying us. This service, if we contracted, charges $5.00 for one child one way and $8.00 for one child round trip .... We could contract with them for the children and we would save money on our paratransit ..... Lots of variation here that we could consider... Kubby/ Thlsrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscrlption ofthelowa City council meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32 Fowler/ On cabs last month there were, the one company, there were 342 rides° Only 34% of the people that rode paid a fare .... The average cab ride was $5.97 ..... They paid $1.00. Thornberry/ $1.00. Baker/ Remember your heart, Dean. Norton/ Nov/ Our fare is $1000. The cab ride costs $6.00 .... Kubby/ Can we go back to see if there is support .... option that the option that SEATS fare go up to $1.50 and that there be income based simple sliding scale that staff can figure. Norton/ I would say yes. Nov/ Two fares... either $1.50 or $1.00. Give break. We offer people a single price lessons .... them a simple price break on swimming Kubby/ For solid waste fee it is reduced to zero but there is a different option that is going to be coming to us. We have different policies for different services and that may or may not make sense ..... Vanderhoef/ Recreation service has it for all the recreation classes. Norton/ Kubby/ Staff could give us a couple of options and let us know what the financial consequences of maybe two different options are so that we could base our decision on something rationale ..... Norton/... say $1.50 with some adjustment to be made for- Atkins/ Kubby/ What this does is increase our revenues from paratransit. It does not cost us more. It brings more money in ..... Norton/ What number are we going to put on this dollarwise? Nov/ There is a committee meeting on Transit, on SEATS, tomorrow? This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 33 Tomorrow afternoon I think ..... Kubby/ ...we have given them basically no direction. Davidson/ Johnson County requested tomorrow afternoon specially to (can't hear). Nov/ Ernie is going tomorrow afternoon. Nov/ We need to discuss this today in order to talk about it tomorrow. Davidson/ Kickoff negotiating session to see where we stand. It is at the county's request. Kubby/ This is the second time we are negotiating with the county where this body didn't talk about who or what the person would say. This is very frustrating to me.. group decision on who is going to represent council when we are negotiating with the county .... Ernie has gotten no direction from us in terms of how he should represent us. Nov/ We are trying to do that tonight. Kubby/ The function of the meeting tonight is to look at our fixed route system and to give option to the public about fixed route system and we have gotten into a SEATS discussion. Nov/ It is my opinion we have to provide the SEATS option as well as the fixed route options when we have a p.h ..... Baker/ Kubby/ Norton/ What is wrong with telling the county sorry, we are not prepared .... Kubby/ We can go and listen, too. Lehman/ ...just blows me away that our system $641,000 and Des Moines is $178-.... My Lord, the discrepancy between what we are paying and the city the size of Des Moines is paying just blows me away. Norton/ Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcrlptton ofthelowa Cl~ council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34 Kubby/ Sometimes we are comparing different things but that is not what we are talking about. And at some point I want to get back to this process things .... If it is just kind of happening behind the scenes, I object to that ..... I think it should happen here, that we decide. Baker/ We are going to send somebody (can't hear) .... Kubby/ Maybe we need to go back to our discussion about services so that if there is any discussion tomorrow Ernie has some sense of what- Norton/ SEATS came up in a logical way here .... Baker/ Kubby/ We have no information about how any of these things will affect the budget ..... Baker/ We can find out whether or not we are interested in pursuing a change. Council/ (All talking). Norton/ .... find out, for example, we insist on people paying full rate .... what is that going to do to our budget? Thornberry/ Is there an agenda for tomorrow? Norton/ Nov/ We should say we want to stay within the city limits or we should say we want to be sure that everybody pays something. We could start out by saying this is too much money ..... Norton/ Then you have to get into that whole business of the survey and the monthly figures .... Nov/ He is not going to battle that one .... come back to us. I think Larry is right. We can go through this list and we can pick and choose the options here. Are we required to go beyond the 3/4 mile? No. Do we choose to do that? Do we continue to do that? Baker/ I don't think we need the money figures to determine- We will get them eventually ..... We don't have the figures to make that decision... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscHption oftholowa City council meetingofJanuary 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 35 Norton/ Cut out the 60 and make it move it up to 70 or some big number. Kubby/ Why don't we start going through the list ..... First one is 3/4 mile beyond fixed route system. Thornberry/ Somebody is older doesn't necessarily mean they get to do everything free ..... Kubby/ If we only go with fixed route limit .... makes out number look better ..... Norton/ So we are going to stick with the 3/4? ..... Nov/ Baker/ Nov/ That is the kind of thing where we say look, if you are providing this out of your GF instead of out of your Rural Levy ..... We need to at least start a discussion. Lehman/ .... If we were to serve only those folks over age 70 and those with disabilities, the cost of the system doesn't change. The cost per ride is going to... still have so many drivers, so many vans, whatever. If you decrease the level of service, you don't decrease the cost. Norton/ Where charge...that is going to add real money .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Is there much virtue in moving the age thing up? ..... Kubby/ ...decrease service at peak time... routes cannot accommodate that .... more than two people from one area from a Systems Homes.. all these logistical factors ..... Norton/ When are our new lift buses coming? Kubby/ Going to get five in a year and half ..... People seem to want to talk about the age thing. Norton/ This is very young... feels better... Kubby/ We could eliminate age totally and if someone at any age who has a need problem... ADA certified. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Cl~ council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36 Nov/ I would go with ADA certification. What we are not requiring here is a doctor certification. We are allowing people to self certify. Kubby/ I believe that people are basically honest. Norton/ Vanderhoef/ For people who are truly disabled they see a doctor often that they could get a certification. Norton/ You mean they have got to be certified by somebody? Nov/ We don't require that. We take their word for it ..... Baker/ I don't have any problem with doctor certification ..... Thornberry/ Do they get a little card to show .... Norton/ Nov/ A social worker verification .... not necessarily need a doctor certification .... Norton/ Mental health professional... Nov/ Could be a lot of things. Kubby/ I think we are sending a very negative message .... I would like to hear from drivers about it .... Baker/ Nov/ We assumed people were telling the truth. Kubby/ Is there anything that indicates to us that they are not? Nov/ Original rationale was not in conformance to the ADA requirement. If we require certification because of ADA that is a different story .... Kubby/ Nov/ We should do what we can afford. Kubby/ We need some indicators that it is a problem ..... How do we find out if it is a problem...? This represents only s reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council roseting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37 Norton/ How is eligibility going? How is that working? Are there a lot of abuses or are things in pretty good shape? Baker/ Staff put this together and they said we are less stringent in our eligibility criteria ..... Atkins/ If you have a more stringent criteria, seeing fewer people would be eligible, thereby there would be less service demand. Less service demand means save money ..... Baker/ Thornberry/ If somebody gets a senior citizen discount they have to show their senior citizen discount card or whatever... what is the difference in that in showing proof of ridership ability? Kubby/ They do that now. Thornberry/ They should be certified by somebody to be able to ride. Kubby/ So we are saying that our eligibility is going to be more restrictive. Thornberry/ To need .... Baker/ And you have to verify your need in someway other than just saying I need it ..... Norton/ We have a responsibility to tax payers as well .... Kubby/ I disagree with the majority about all our low income policies. I don't think we should have to have people show their Title 19. I think only people who need those breaks .... are being truthful ..... and this is another case of that. Norton/ .... but the facts are different. Nov/ Can we get back to SEATS? Ernie is listening. Ernie will ask the questions that we have been asking. We can handle this. All right. We are proving a higher level of paratransit service than that of fixed route... Do we want to continue 24 hour cab service? This is an expense ..... Atkins/ May I make an observation. I don't know the purpose of tomorrow's meeting ..... You are framing a policy of telling them what is going to be acceptable. Right now I have no idea Thisrepresents only a reasonably occuratetranscriptlon ofthelowo Citycouncil meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 38 what they are going to tell you tomorrow. The kind of debate that you are having. You are having Ernie being prepared to go in .... We have no idea of what they are going to be saying tomorrow. Kubby/ We are asking Ernie to ask some questions. Atkins/ But then you are answering them .... I don't have the numbers ...... You don't know the consequences of any of the things you are proposing right now. Baker/ Agreeing on the questions .... Arkins/ Okay, ask the questions .... I am afraid we are not going to get anywhere .... frustration with the county... Davidson/ I think something is getting slightly twisted here. The county has steadfastly said they have no desire to set policies with the City of Iowa City. They expect this body to set policies regarding paratransit. They then expect Joe and Ron to determine how many SEATS vehicles are required under those policies... then they will give you a dollar figure for that. They don't want to hear questions... tell us how many vehicles... They expect the City of Iowa City to make all of those policy decisions .... Nov/ Davidson/ They have told us they think the level of service they are providing is what is needed. They have no trips turned down. The numbers they have given you are with the existing policies that Steve has provided. If you change any of those, they then expect your transit people to determine if the reduction in number of vans is appropriate and then they will give you a new number. Kubby/ SEATS may or may not have the information we need. Davidson/ ...they will still give you a number... if we get any complaints .... going right to Iowa city .... Thornberry/ ...sounds like what we have been doing .... go... and find out what everybody wants .... Norton/ Started trying to figure out to get some savings. Thornberry/ He should be saying to the county what Iowa City wants Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of January22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 39 as far as paratransit. Davidson/ Until you tell the county differently, this is the service that you want provided in these polices. They will not set policy for the City of Norton/ Kubby/ We need to ask our staff Iowa City. those questions .... Baker/ Our staff says they cannot give us the answers ..... Logsden/ I don't think the county can give us concrete numbers .... Iowa City has a large cab budget to fill the demand .... excess demand than what the vehicles SEATS has... Kubby/ Other way to look at this is we are not going to increase our cab .... Thornberry/ Start with our policies .... You don't have the information until it happens .... If we say people over age- Norton/ That is why we are going over this to look for places to tighten it up .... Thornberry/ If you want to know how much we are going to say, nobody knows until- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-12 SIDE Thornberry/ Nobody knows until after the fact .... Kubby/ But because the dispatchers and the drivers know their riders, I would like to have the questions asked to some of the drivers .... Thornberry/ Just for an example, #3 People over the age of 60 are automatically eligible to ride the paratransit service here in Iowa City. Scratch that out. Would that eliminate any riders? Maybe. If it does, what will happen? It will reduce our costs. Norton/ We don't know a number. Thornberry/ Nov/ You could also say it is eligible only by disability. You could also say we are not providing a 24 hour, seven days a Thisrepresents only ereesonebly accuratetranscrtptlon ofthelowe City council meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40 week ..... We just don't know what the exact number is. Thornberry/ After a year you will know how much you save. Norton/ .... tightening up some of these things .... Kubby/ I am suggesting .... decrease the amount they are giving us because of the double duty payment .... Increasing the fares .... negotiating above and beyond the fairness formula .... There is a political negotiation .... Baker/ Some of these are basically philosophical questions about what sort of service do your provide the people .... Do you provide this service to people over the age of 60 just because they are over the age of 60...? Thornberry/ Norton/ Thornberry/ If this was just out of there would it hurt anybody that is taking it for that reason? Norton/ If they are disabled. Fowler/ We have been told by some SEATS drivers and cab drivers both that there are some abuse that is going on in this system and they felt that we needed to tighten up our controls a little bit on who is riding. Kubby/ Is there a trend in the nature of the abuse? Fowler/ No, not that I am aware of .... both cab and SEATS drivers. Baker/ So if you establish criteria that are fair...eliminate some of the abuse... Seems like a logical... policy here. You have to assume the policy is fair to begin with. Is it fair not to provide SEATS service just on the basis of age? I think it is fair. Lehman/ I also think it is unreasonable to have a system that is so efficient that nobody ever gets turned down ..... We are operating too good of service ..... Baker/ Whole discussion .... we won't get the information from the county. Where we are headed is our own service. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Januaw 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 41 Norton/ Is that on the agenda tomorrow? Thornberry/ As I see it is what we need to do is say this is the criteria for riding paratransit. We take it to the county or whomever .... How do we know how many buses we need? .... Davidson/ Dean, the way ADA is set up is it is up to us locally to make that determination of what is a comparable level of service. Staff gives you input. Eventually there has to be a policy decision of what is fair and equitable and that is part of a plan that we have at JCCOG .... It is subject to change. The way ADA is set up, if there is a challenge to that, the judicial system .... challenged in the courts .... Kubby/ And the consequence .... rectification of the injustice. Norton/ I feel uncomfortable sitting here in some ways .... Thornberry/ Sometimes you have to be ugly. Kubby/ A year ago we talked about in our negotiations with the county on having a citizens committee .... I think we should have a transportation commission that advises us about parking .... There was an agreement to move towards a citizens committee. Arkins/ I didn't think the county was thrilled about that idea .... we were interested. It is certainly easy to resurrect the issue. Kubby/ ..... We can have our own paratransit citizens committee to help advise us on these issues .... Norton/ Focus on paratransit first .... We have to make a budget, too. Thornberry/ ...... Kubby/ ADA was set up so people with disabilities...have accommodations so they can live in our community. Thornberry/ Vanderhoef/ Like having our Board of Appeals...another way of having a check and balance... Nov/ Have we gotten to the point where we have anymore to say on Thisrepresents only aressonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of Jenue~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 42 SEATS or should we move on? Baker/ What is Ernie going to do tomorrow? Thornberry/ Is he going to go with this exact thing? Norton/ ...trying to come up with numbers here .... Nov/ I really don't want to bend on the fares. I think we seem to have an agreement that we are going to require them to collect a fare and the fare may be lower than $1.50 for those who cannot afford $1.50. This is what I thought we heard .... When we got to eligibility, there was any agreement. Thornberry/ Baker/ People with disabilities ..... Thornberry/ Should certification be required? Vanderhoef/ Yes. Thornberry/ Yes. Norton/ I think so. Kubby/ Certification by whom is the question. Baker/ Doctor, social worker. Norton/ Healthcare professional .... Nov/ I would even accept a certification from a teacher .... Thornberry/ Norton/ Healthcare professional, social worker, special ed teacher. Nov/ Norton/ Baker/ These are not decisions.. this is direction .... Thornberry/ Nov/ We also need a p.h. Isn't SEATS part of this? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Atkins/ No. Nov/ No, it is not part of the p.h. Atkins/ It will certainly come up. Nov/ The requirement is for fixed route changes. Baker/ ...can we combine it? Thornberry/ Better have a separate hearing on SEATS. Baker/ I would put them together ..... Nov/ Okay. Arkins/ I am not sure I understand. You have already set for the 6th. Nov/ I don't think we need to do that. Lehman/ Vanderhoef/ Page 43 got the fixed route Baker/ Suppose we could have the p.h. on SEATS separately. Nov/ All right, let's not beleaguer that one. What about going back to the parking rates because that is probably more connected to the fixed routes than SEATS would be? Is there anymore discussion on parking? don' think we need it. Street Ramp? Baker/ Can we have a p.h. about parking rates? Nov/ Do we need a p.h. on parking rates? I Baker/ Norton/ Raise them a nickel in the Dubuque Baker/ I would do it. Nov/ We have a proposal to increase the outlying rates...rates, meters, ramps .... I want to hear the council say yes, we are going to do this. From $.30 to .40. If we do that we have a nine hour maximum at Chauncey Swan .... We have a $4.00 maximum at the Dubuque Street Ramp .... Thisrepresents only 8reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 44 Fowler/ If you increase the maximum in Chauncey Swan, you would have to add staff to enforce it because- It is enforced from 8:00 to 5:00. Nov/ At $.40 and hour nobody is going to pay more than $3.60 to park here. So the effective maximum is $3.60. Nobody is going to pay you more than $4.00 to park for the day at Dubuque Street Ramp, right? Now, I am saying do we provide enough incentive to walk an extra couple of blocks if there is only a $.40 difference. Baker/ Do you want to raise the maximum at the Dubuque Street Ramp? I am all for that. Nov/ I am trying to provide an incentive for people to walk a little bit more. Norton/ $5.00 up there. Baker/ Go up to $.50 on the hourly, $5.00. Norton $.50 hourly and $5.00 for the max. Thornberry/ How many people are waiting to get a permit? Kubby/ Lots. Thornberry/ Waiting list .... ? Fowler/ No. We just recently went through and re-evaluated how many spaces we had and sold off additional parking permits. I believe...we don't have exact number. There are very few people waiting to get a permit across the street .... There is no waiting list for the Dubuque Street or the Capital Street Ramp right now .... is what I was told today... increased the number of permits based on our occupancy... updated everybody. Council/ (All talking). Nov/ We did talk about raising the permits as well as the hourly rate for outlying lots .... Baker/ I am not sure I would touch the permits right now .... Nov/ ...proposal was to go $40 or $45. Thornberry/ Go $40 here and $50 d.t. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Cl~ council meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 45 Nov/ .... Atkins/ These decisions are being made to supplement Transit further is what I understand. Baker/ Make sure you cover the shortfall in parking .... Thornberry/ Kubby/ Three year budget... predicated.. includes these current increases with no additional transfer from Parking to Transit. So if we are wanting to make more money- Atkins/ There are no rate increases in the Parking Fund. None. $.45 to .50 at Dubuque Street Ramp is $38,000 .... new revenue .... Nov/ We do have a proposal to increase the outlying meters. Kubby/ If the intent .... to take that extra and transfer it to Transit, we should put it on this list so it is out there so people can give us feedback about it. It is only fair. Council/ (All talking). Vanderhoef/ I think it is high time that we increase those meters. Nov/ Our Transit subsidy was originally meant to end in FY98 ..... Kubby/ Now let's go to outlying meters... Atkins/ Raising rates... Thornberry/ Nov/ It is staff time. Vanderhoef/ I am not ready to say this money is definitely going to go to Transit. Kubby/ Norton/ Vanderhoef/ I am hearing Karen say that she wants us to put that out in the p.h. that if we increase these rates that we may be putting more Parking money. Thisrepresents only a reesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 46 Kubby/ Vanderhoef/...I am not saying it is an option for me. Nov/ Dee, if Transit is increased are you willing to consider increasing Parking as well? The money from the increase would not go to subsidize Transit .... also going to increase the metered parking not necessarily because it is going to subsidize Transit but in and of itself. Vanderhoef/ In and of itself is what I am talking about .... do increase the meter. Atkins/ Increase the outlying meters from $.30 to .40, $90,000 a year. Nov/ And the increase of monthly permits in outlying area ..... Norton That is basically Chauncey Swan. Nov/ Rec Center, Civic Center Lots .... Norton/ ... Dubuque Street Ramp increase .... $90-, $22.5- and $38-, right? Atkins/ On the permits. Norton/ $35 to $40 on outlying lots. Kubby/ Increase from $35 to $45 for outlying? Arkins/ Permits? $35 to $45? Nov/ $45 a month for Dubuque Street Ramp permit and it would go to $45 at outlying lot .... has to be some difference. We were talking about from $35 to 40. Norton ...but $.30 to .40 in the parking meters in outlying areas, right. Baker/ Kubby/ $35 to $40 for the permits. Baker/ Transit deficit we would have to make up if we kept the $75,000 night service budget ..... these other things generate $150,000 for that $100,000 just for the record. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 47 Kubby/ I am interested in having more than one option about what that figure is for partial restoration of night service. I would like to see us have couple of different options. Norton/ Atkins/ Please keep in mind that the parking Fund, that you face a new ramp sometime in the future. You got to do this thing again. Council/ (All talking). Atkins/ Tomorrow night after your Boards and Commissions .... I want to confirm on thing with you. we will take the proposed budget and we will put-we will call it tentative agreements. Council options. No one is committed to them .... listing them Norton/ Is there anything going to be in there from SEATS? Is there any number available? Arkins/ No, we did not come up with one. Norton/ We did the $1.50 charge. Atkins/ With low income- Okay, the $1.50 if we made it stick is $60,000 increase in SEATS budget. [On Board: Tentative Agreements: $.75 Fares $22 Pass (-$36,000) Partial restoration of night service (-$75,000) SEATS $1.50 & income based scale for fare. ($60,000) Increase parking: Dubuque Street ($.45-.50) (+$3800) Outlying Meters ($.30-.40) ($90,000) Permits ($35-40 outlying) (+$22,500) ($45-50)] Atkins/ Just so I understand... We have a proposal and that we have council options, loosely defined but council options. Kubby/ We agreed on $1.50 fare for SEATS with a sliding scale waiver. Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CIw council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 48 Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 22, 1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 Council Work Session Page 49 Council Time 96-12 Side 1 1. Thornberry/ Are you putting this out to the public? Atkins/ We will put this out more as information so that coming to the hearing they will have an understanding as to what the proposal is which is in the budget document and then some idea of what the council is considering. That is all you are doing. Thornberry/ Could you also put in there the reasons for these things? Federal operating assistance reduction .... 2. Kubby/ I am interested in us exploring merging with Coralville to see if a Iowa City/Coralville Transit system allows us to serve more people with the same amount of resources. Norton/ I would like to see that myself. Arkins/ Delighted to take than on... would you be willing to open that a little further and say Iowa City/Coralville Transit System .... paratransit system? .... SEATS ridership at night goes down, we could use those small buses to be running the routes .... Norton/ We should look at that thing including paratransit. Atkins/...tied together .... Council/ (All talking). Atkins/ JCCOG makes a lot of transit kind of decisions .... 3. Vanderhoef/ .... talked about... CAMBUSES doing marvelous job... doing joint work with the University for night service .... Nov/ Atkins/ The differences... Coralville and Iowa City .... Kubby/ Our financial position is different .... 4. Nov/ ...calendar list that Marian did... proposed on additional meeting on February 7 to finalize the budget .... (council discussion regarding meeting schedule) February 7- 9:30 AM 12 - cancel 13 - 6:00 work session Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Janua~ 22,1996. WS012296 January 22, 1996 20 - January 29 - Adjourned: 9:40 PM Council Work Session 6:30 5:30 start P/Z Conference Board Page 50 Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CIW council meeting of January 22,1996. WS012296