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Home My WebLink About1998-03-23 TranscriptionMarch 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 1 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session 7:00 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Trueblood, Ripley. Tapes: 98-39, Side 2; 98-43, all; 98-44, all. Franklin/Let you know, if you haven't heard already, about the Northeast Planning District workshops. We have had an amazing response .... interesting to see what we do with the overflow. We will be having another set of workshops the second week in April .... quite an experience for everybody. Kubby/We had a letter fi-om the University of Iowa Environmental Coalition, expressing some concern about where we were in the process. Can we make sure that they get contacted? .... Franklin/Yeah, sure ..... You may have some feedback from some people about why it was that we had a limit on the number of people and we are doing this in a workshop kind of setting in which individuals work through this planning exercise and there is no way you can do it with an unlimited number of people .... Having second session of workshops. Review Zoning Matters 98-39 $2 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for April 7 on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation on a 1 O-acre tract located on the south side of Melrose Avenue and west of West High School from Low Density Single-Family (RS-5) to Planned Development Housing (OPDH~8) to permit an 80 dwelling unit retirement community. (REZ98-0002) Franklin/The first item is to set a p.h. for April 7th .... from low density RS-5 to OPDH-8. This is for a housing for the elderly project and you will see the subdivision shortly .... b. Public hearing on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation on a 4.46-acre tract located at 500 Foster Road from Interim Development Single-Family Residential (IDRS) to Sensitive Areas Overlay-8 (OSA-8) to permit 35 dwelling units and approving a preliminary Sensitive Areas Development Plan. (REZ97-0011) Franklin/Is the p.h. on the Bud Louis project on Foster Road. The P/Z Commission has chosen to reconsider this project. Therefore you should continue the p.h. since the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 2 project will be changing. But in order to leave this open, let's continue the p.h. to April 7 ..... Kubby/Does the public who is interested in this know that we are going to be continuing this?... Franklin/Yes .... Kubby/ .....so process can keep moving forward ..... Franklin/ .... for your information, the multi-family building is being made smaller. It is being reduced by 6 units .... c. Public hearing on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation on approximately 41 acres located between Lower West Branch Road and Court Street extended, approximately 4/5 miles west of Taft Avenue from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) for 29.1 acres and Low Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-12) for 11.9 acres. (REZ97-0019) Franklin/A p.h. on changing the zoning designation .... This is the panhandle of Windsor Ridge .... This is the configuration of the zoning boundaries, the RM-12 and RS-8. This is a conditional zoning, the condition being that when this property is actually developed, the developer will be responsible for the extension of Court Street through this area which is just beyond the public project that we will be getting this summer which takes it out to the west boundary of Windsor Ridge. The developer would also obligate themselves to bringing in a planned development for each of these areas when they are actually being developed. So that development can't go forward in either the RS-8 or RM-12 until they do that ..... take into consideration the design guidelines that are in the Comprehensive Plan. Once we have translated those design guidelines into ordinances ....we will no longer need to have the planned development then with each one .... Norton/I thought there was a 4.9 acre piece of this .... Franklin/It started out the RM-12 was also suggested for the extreme northwest comer. That is not longer the case .... Lehman/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 3 Kubby/I am not sure what the timing was. Was that against our new Comp Plan or our old Comp Plan? Franklin/It was not consistent with the principles of the new plan. This was the area that was originally suggested for the RM-12 and what we have is Lower West Branch Road (refers to map) .... in the context of the whole future neighborhood... Scott Blvd... Court Street and Taft Avenue up to Rochester. That would be the arterial boundaries of this neighborhood. Lower West Branch would serve as a collector through that neighborhood. It is not anticipated in the neighborhood design concepts that we have been working with that you would necessarily have a spot of RM-12 in there. We didn't want to do the RM-12 at this point in time, not knowing exactly how the rest of this was going to develop. This is one area that is subject to the Northeast Planning District workshops that are going on .... Kubby/Are they wanting to do development in these areas this spring? Franklin/No. Kubby/ .... wonders .... Northeast Planning... why are we zoning some part of the land in that area before that planning takes place? Franklin/That is a valid point... Mr. Watts and Mr. Moreland... developers... aware of the Northeast Planning District that we are doing. They will have some input into it. What they are proposing is consistent with the principles in the Comp Plan .... Endeavored .... do this rezoning ahead of when the area is fully developed out there. This is kind of in-line with the plans for the area .... I don't see how they would actually begin construction next spring at this point. Kubby/Is there a problem in deferring this for one month until after that planning process takes place? Franklin/I think it would probably be something to ask the applicants. The CZA is not signed at this point in time because John Moreland... out of town. So we are going to have to have you continue this anyway to April 7 .... two weeks. It still won't be after the workshops are done. That whole process won't be done until next fall .... Workshops completed in March and April but... plan... next fall. Norton/Ask what their pleasure is .... Vanderhoef/I thought the road part was the thing they were most concerned with. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 4 Franklin/...this going forward. This enables them to not only do this part but also this part down here because they can, at their pleasure, extend it east to Taft Avenue and continue with the north part of Windsor Ridge that they have already got zoning and preliminary platting on. That was their most immediate concern. Norton/...lot for them to deal with already. Kubby/I guess I would like us to direct staff to ask if they would have a problem with waiting until the Northeast Planning District process has taken its course .... Franklin/Are you talking then about next fall? Kubby/If they are not planning on doing anything this next construction season .... isn't impeding their development anyway. Franklin/We can talk with them. Thomberry/I wouldn't see any problem with asking them .... Franklin/One of the things they are concerned about is the market for RS-5 s.f. large lot big house development south of Court Street is pretty soft now and they are looking at other markets within the housing market place .... timing issue ....I will talk to Gary Watts about it. Kubby/If we know what the community process says in general about that area, that will help us make a decision. Franklin/Okay. Norton/Can't hurt to ask. O'Donnell/The zoning is already okay? Kubby/No. Franklin/The Zoning Commission has recommended approval of this .... this parts needs to go through. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 5 d. Public heating on an ordinance changing the zoning designation on approximately 24.12 acres from Interim Development (ID-RS) to Sensitive Areas Overlay-5 (OSA-5) and approving a preliminary Sensitive Areas Development Plan for property located at the east terminus of Hickory Trail. (REZ97-0007) Franklin/The First and Rochester Development. It is a Sensitive Areas Overlay rezoning. The applicant has requested that this p.h. be continued to April 7 so they have time to respond to the protests. The Secondary Access Guidelines were in your packet .... Kubby/Neighbors have indeed reached the 20%? Franklin/48. e. Public hearing on an ordinance approving the preliminary OPDH plan for Walnut Ridge, Parts 6 and 7, a 66.68 acre, 20-lot residential subdivision located at the north terminus of Kennedy Parkway. (REZ98-0001) Franklin/This is a location map from their original application which includes the remainder of Walnut Ridge. This has been modified to include just the southerly half of the gray portion. (Refers to map). Basically... changes which took out a private drive on Burr Oak .... two flag lots off of the private drive. This cul de sac has one less lot than the original plat and Outlot B was previously a lot... the open space has been increased... decrease of one lot in this configuration? Vanderhoef/ Franklin/That is private open space... discussion... P/Z Commission about the open space requirement for Walnut Ridge...recommendation... to take fees in lieu of here. Norton/Do you have that recommendation? .... from Parks and Rec... we haven't seen anything .... Franklin/Let me check that .... Terry .... Trueblood/(Can't hear). Franklin/The Commission just voted last week and they voted to have it be fees in lieu of dedication. Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 6 Vanderhoef/...sidewalk ....four foot sidewalk ....I wondered four foot versus the trail size eight foot? Franklin/ Kubby/It is not an arterial... Lehman/It is not an arterial, it is a collector street. Apparently the eight foot sidewalks are only on arterials, not collectors. That is our standard as per Jeff Davidson. Norton/Wasn't there a requirement that that sidewalk go clear to the west boundary? .... Franklin/When Kennedy Parkway goes to the west boundary. Norton/Then the sidewalk will be there and it will be a four foot sidewalk for pedestrians and bikes. Vanderhoef/Kennedy Parkway... act as an arterial .... Franklin/No, Kennedy Parkway is a collector street .... Norton/I understand the street width has been reduced to 25 feet already in many parts .... Fire Departments... Where are we with respect to the size of the street? Franklin/With this particular development, that change in the width of the street was something we went through when we first rezoned this property back in .... At that time .... we started out with this being private streets. After the development got started, the developer decided not to do the private streets but to go with the public streets. But we had gone through all that in terms of the width of the street for the cul de sacs as well as the divided street .... narrowing down those travel lanes. In terms of where the whole issue is with the width of streets, that is going to be an ongoing debate and it will be something that will resolve at some point by this body .... Champion/When you reduce street size, do you limit parking on the street then? Franklin/Yes. Vanderhoeff So on the circles that are 22 foot width, then there will be no street parking on the circle? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 7 Franklin/Those are not posted for no parking and you can park on them, on the cul de sacs .... Vanderhoef/... recycling trucks... thinking is that a street that they could get down? .... Franklin/I can't answer that question ....Larry .... Larry Schnittjer/The cul de sacs in Walnut Ridge are larger in outside diameter than the cul de sacs in Iowa City. Lehman/ Norton/So it is the radius of the thing, not the width of the street that is important. Schnittjer/ Vanderhoef/ Schnittjer/Fire Department wants to see a minimum of 20 foot pavement. Kubby/So there is an issue of consistency within the development as well. Norton/...moving towards narrower streets in many cases. Kubby/...done in '91... haven't had a flurry of developments asking for the narrower streets since then. Franklin/That is because we won't approve them .... in the Comp Plan in terms of neighborhood design, whether we are going to look at these narrower streets or not and that is something we are going to have a discussion about .... Lehman/Didn't we also do Mormon Trek and Rohret Road? .... has 25 foot private streets. Franklin/Those are private .... different .... Public Works does not have a problem with it. Fire Department still wishes to maintain the wider street. Norton/They are probably not even happy with it. Franklin/You will see the subdivision of this, too .....nitty gritty issues... Plat is still in the P/Z Commission. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 8 f. An ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article E, "Commercial and Business Zones," Section 2, Neighborhood Commercial Zone (CN-1) regarding size restrictions on restaurants. (1) Public Hearing (2) Consider an Ordinance Franklin/Size restrictions on restaurants for CN-1 zone. P/Z Commission has reviewed this again with your referral back to it and recommends that you stick with the 100 occupant load threshold. That beyond that it goes to the Board of Adjustment for special exception. That is based on a rough equivalency of what 130 occupant load would be in terms of square footage just to get an idea of the difference between what is in the Code now and what would be a comparable square footage ..... Up to you now to pick a number. Vanderhoef/Does anyone want to review what we talked about two weeks ago in conjunction with this 130? .... appears we have approved by special exception at least one out on the west side in a CN-1 zone .... My question .... why are we going through the process of special exception if this is what is going to come up anyway? .... additional time... fairer .... to know up front rather than hinge everything on special exception ....They are having to go further into the process o f planning their project .... Norton/Plenty of room... question of special exception for the ones that are larger size... just gives you a chance to look carefully ....parking ....whole nature of the scene .... see no reason to jump beyond the 100 .... Lehman/... 100, anyone could build up to that by right .... In that zone, that would catch most construction that might occur .... one on west side .... one that brought this up... don't even compare to each other ....no similarity whatsoever. This does give the flexibility to go to whatever number ....I think the 100 number ....still gives the flexibility. Norton/...whole concept of a neighborhood restaurant .... draws them from everywhere .... concept may not be totally applicable .... A good restaurant will draw from further than the walking radius. So you have to allow for that ....I think P/Z looked at this pretty hard .... Vanderhoef/ Kubby/We were thinking there were four people who wanted to go a little .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 9 Lehman/Some concern about the cases that might have to go through... special exception .... this is not an onerous sort of requirement .... O'Donnell/How long does that process take, special exception? Franklin/About a month. O'Donnell/This has only been two years. Norton/This one.. struggle... things jumped up that people weren't expecting .... Isn't there also a limit on the total commercial space in this zone .... Franklin/The idea with the neighborhood commercial is to have a variety of uses there and one of the concerns was office space and the other was the general commercial space. There are percentages that are on those .... The idea was not to create, for instance, another kind of Towncrest in the midst of a residential neighborhood ..... This is a zone that has been tweaked for as long as I have been with the city and it is a very hard one to get a hold of to have it be fair... respect the neighborhood setting. Champion/ Thornberry/I went to P/Z meeting... those people work hard, they listen to a lot... they do a very good job. On this neighborhood commercial .... is that grocery stores in neighborhood commercials, I envision a Summit Street market .... Melrose Market ....Seatons ....Johns ....they don't make those anymore ....smallest one they make is between 30,000 and 40,000 square foot ..... So a 40,000 square foot grocery store can go in a neighborhood commercial but a 130 seat restaurant can't .... I mean under the ordinance .... incongruous. You are penalizing one industry over another .... I know there has got to be a cut off point someplace. But the idea of the neighborhood restaurant to me was...footprint of what it looked like to the neighbors in that neighborhood commercial .... just to have a basement for storage. How it got to this point .... Norton/...traffic is also an issue here. Thomberry/Number of parking spaces .... if you got 40,000 square feet of grocery store .... Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session Thomberry/It is our ordinance that allows a 40,000 grocery store. Kubby/A larger restaurant is allowed when you have that kind of parking .... Thomberry/...all he is asking for is more storage .... Kubby/...figure out how to fairly analyze the size of restaurant. Thomberry/How can we .... say what will go and what won't go as far as a restaurant? .... Seems to me that with a 40,000 square foot store next door and you are saying hey, you can't have a 102 seat- Just seem to make any sense. Lehman/If you did not allow a 30,000-40,000 grocery store, you would not have a grocery store .... Norton/ Lehman/...I hear what you are saying... If you make grocery stores as restrictive ....you eliminate the possibility of any grocery store .... Thomberry/I don't think they don't make a under 40,000 square foot grocery store. It is that they don't have trader a 40,000 chain grocery store .... Franklin/That is true. Thomberry/ Franklin/It could always be smaller. Lehman/...next item g. Ordinance amending the approved preliminary Sensitive Areas Development Plan for Lot 51 of Walden Hills, containing 2.9 acres and located within the OSA-8, Sensitive Areas Overlay Zone at the northeast comer of Shannon Drive and Irving Avenue. (REZ97-0018) (1) Public Hearing (2) Consider an Ordinance Franklin/Lot 51 of Walden Hills... My understanding that you want to have the photographs of the models... shown tomorrow night ..... page 10 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 11 Norton/Yes. Lehman/I hear two heads nodding .... Norton/It would be nice .... h. Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat of Galway Hills, Part Five, a 13.63- acre, eight-lot residential subdivision located on the south side of Melrose Avenue and west of West High School. (SUB98-0002) Franklin/Galway Hills, Part 5. This is the subdivision that will create the lot that will allow the housing for the elderly... Lot 117 (refers to map). This is Dublin Drive .... that will come down and connect in some fashion with Shannon coming from the south from Rohret ....What we are looking at this subdivision... West High boundary here .... Lehman/Does that street have any neckdown? Franklin/It does not. A neckdown means that it narrows at the intersection. This road does not... It will be discontinuous within the subdivision .... Kubby/ Franklin/Neckdowns are a traffic calming measure... talk about later .... Vanderhoef/Where is the easement to connect with West High? (All talking). Franklin/The easement would be in the future Galway Subdivision right down here (refers to map) .... pedestrian walkway easement .... vehicular access to West High would come later on... farther south .... Norton/ ....They wanted a trail that comes down... along south boundary of Lot 117 ..... Franklin/...At this point in time, West High would not let it in. That is another issue and how we work with the school district on getting a break in the gate there such that the students can use that for access to West High. What we need to do through our subdivision process is at least reserve the option that we can put that in at some point in time when we could make that connection ..... Certainly the kids will use This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Cotmcil Work Session page 12 the shortage path .... in most direct way... try to find a place where that makes the most sense of this developing neighborhood. Kubby/ ....also have the mayor write a letter to the school board .... Franklin/Understand that this walkway easement is not in this subdivision. The walkway easement would be in the (refers to map). But the property owners and we are on notice... in our record... is expected to happen, yes. Norton/How does it connect to the Willow Creek trail that comes around from Mormon Trek? Franklin/Down Dublin through the street system along the sidewalk (refers to map)... down to the creek. Norton/Is there a stormwater problem on 117? Franklin/No ....discussion... Wetland Soil Conservation Erosion Control seminar... suggestions were made... different ways to handle stormwater runoff by plantings .... The developer indicated they would look into some of these .... The issue here is really with the provision of sanitary sewer service. The sanitary sewer will come across the property here (refers to map) go to the West High property and then to the University .... We need to get easement and agreements from the school district and the University. Are there any questions? Norton/The sanitary sewer... is that connected to a lift station or is that a gravity system? Franklin/This would be gravity flow to the Hawkeye lift station and then it would be turned around and lifted back up to Mormon Trek Blvd. Norton/ ....will that lift station remain? Franklin/Yes. (All talking). Norton/Ernie asked about neckdowns on Dublin Drive .... looks to me that they would still manage to get through there pretty good .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 13 Franklin/ .... possible future street alignments .... Maybe that is something we need to work on a little bit more to make sure that it is not too smooth ....90 degree intersection there between Dublin and Shannon ..... Norton/ i. Consider a motion to forward a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending that a request to rezone 5.3 acres from Suburban Residential (RS-10) to Planned Commercial (CP2) for property located in the northwest quadrant of the intersection of Highway 1 and Landon Avenue be denied. (CZ9801) Franklin/Last item is this letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors. The Board of Supervisors has voted on this rezoning and voted to deny it. So the question is moot as far as the council is concerned. Kubby/So what do we do? Franklin/Nothing. Lehman/ Franklin/You can't eliminate it from your agenda .... Karr/We don't do anything. We will just note that it was continued, brought it up and there is no need for action. Just a paper trail. Franklin/But he needs to say something tomorrow night, does he not? Karr/Just read the comment or the fact that the Board has already denied it and therefore there is no council action needed... for the record .... Kubby/There were some supervisors .... Norton/It was an interesting discussion. O'Donnell/I went to that meeting .... (All talking). Franklin/Do you have any agenda items? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 14 Kubby/In the P/Z minutes we have a recommendation about a task force for entry ways. Is that going to come to us at another informal? Franklin/Yes, probably next time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 15 Review Agenda Items 98-39 S2 1. Franklin/Do any of you have questions about the Dover Kohl contract for the Peninsula? (Agenda # 11- Design Plan For Development of the Peninsula) Vanderhoef/Yes. I would like to know .... I am still concerned about our single access out to the peninsula and what that whole undeveloped area .... at the end of Foster Road. How many people or units can we put out there? .... Franklin/Why don't I pull out the information we have put together on that about what we are doing different on Foster Road in terms of the construction of the road to address this issue as well as the density calculations that we have done for that. Vanderhoef/I would like to see that before we approve this. Franklin/Before you approve the contract? Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/I don't think that is going to be possible .... Norton/I thought we had that several months ago .... Franklin/Yeah, you had it. Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/Why that one and not First Avenue extended? Vanderhoef/I want to be sure we don't put ourselves in the position that is not- Kubby/With First Avenue there is absolutely only one access for that whole neighborhood ..... Franklin/We count... we evaluate the secondary access guidelines for the point at which there is another way to go. At this point in time, that would be Foster Road and No -Name. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/We would go from No-Name to the west now. We also have in our plans a road that will go north from Foster and would loop over through Forest View and come This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 16 down Laura which provides another means of access .... The other thing... topography .... First Avenue... has a creek crossing. That is one of the factors that comes into play when you are looking at secondary access .... critical one for First Avenue as well as the north facing slope .... We can go through all of that. Your concern is whether we even proceed with peninsula development without feeling comfortable with secondary access issue. Vanderhoef/If you have time I will come in and go over it with you tomorrow ..... Norton/ Thomberry/ Norton/I am not quite sure... northern loop road ....Where does that come back and hit Foster? Franklin/Laura Drive. Norton/Finally you end up on Foster Road ..... Franklin/Or Taft Speedway. The Secondary Access Policy are guidelines .... principles that you use to make a judgment .... Kubby/ Norton/We need to be very comfortable with how that is proceeded...people along Foster Road... raising questions about these matters .... Vanderhoef/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-43 SIDE 1 Norton/Even people in Idyllwild are concerned about it. Lehman/Well, I think the big thing ..... we need consistency in that policy... apply the same rules no matter where we do it .... Norton/Walnut Ridge ..... Franklin/Very low density .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 17 Kubby/Task #2b is identify community and economic goals and nowhere in this document do I see specifically laid out any kind of environmental goals because there are some sensitive areas out there and maybe- I mean, I know on the physical plan it says take into account environmental issues with relation to the adjacent parkland and existing wells. But that doesn't take into account the wooded areas and the ravines and the steep slopes going into the ravines .... Thornberry/Wouldn't that be covered on the Sensitive Areas Ordinance? Kubby/ ....some of us talked about will there be encroachment allowed into those woodlands? Franklin/We also talked about the potential for retaining ownership of the hillsides and just selling off the development part but allowing the density on the top. Kubby/So I think that needs to be mentioned somewhere more. Thomberry/ Franklin/The decision was we wait until we go through this sherret process before we decide that. Kubby/So is it possible to say identify community, economic and environmental goals? Norton/Why not add that, yeah? Kubby/And in that same section, in the list of people who might be interviewed... no community organizations are listed and I wouldn't mind us saying community organizations .... Environmental Advocates... Chamber of Commerce .... Franklin/Home Builders .... Kubby/And community organizations. Franklin/Is everybody cool with that? Thornberry/No, I am not. I don't know how far you need to go before you make a development .... All we need to do is say adhere to the regulations that are already in place which is the Sensitive Areas Ordinance .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 18 Franklin/What this is about at this point is not an engineered plan for the Peninsula but to make a decision as a community about what kind of design we generally want on the Peninsula, the concepts. And then have illustrations of that type of design and some design guidelines. That then will be the framework in which the developer takes it and goes with it. Thomberry/These being guidelines .... If somebody comes in with a plan that does not fit that guideline but it meets the other criteria, we can't say no. Franklin/We can say, Dean, whatever we want with this because it is our property ..... This is a circumstance in which you, as a council, have the most latitude that you ever have in making a decision about land development. Champion/...I think there are some interesting things there that you may want to preserve that would be totally unrelated to the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. Kubby/Because woodlands that are less than two acres are not covered .... Norton/...can't see why it would hurt. Franklin/What I heard was a suggestion that we include community organizations under #2b which could be a variety of community organizations... for the consultants to talk to. Vanderhoef/Are you concerned with the size? Franklin/This is for interviews that the consultants would do independent of the sherret. The size of the sherret, the workshop, would be probably about 100 people ..... open to the public ..... I don't know the level of interest .... Vanderhoef/I agree we need input from the environmental kinds .... Our own commissions .... I don't know that we would need to be that specific .... Franklin/There are two opportunities for people to get involved .... Kubby/I mentioned three different organizations of examples of what I might be meaning of adding the words "community organizations".... kinds of groups out that are out there that have a stake in this .... Norton/...send a representative to the sherret .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 19 Kubby/Will council members not going to be able participate in the sherret because we are going to be making a decision? Franklin/You will be able to participate it in... have to address... how you want to do that. If you want to have all of you involved in it, if you want to have representatives... Idea here is that anyone who wants to be involved in that workshop, can be involved in the workshop. Important for the council in some way to be involved in this from beginning to end. Lehman/ Franklin/The consultant will be coming in April 22 & 23 .... This would be a time when we would sit down with the consultant and go over the scope of work and the schedule .... possibility of having a couple of representatives from the council... commission... sit down with us with the consultant... looking at the scope and the schedule... then we will be setting up the sherret .... It will be an open meeting. The difference will be whether Marian is required as the City Clerk to have some kind of minutes of it. We did this with the library project .... Kubby/ Lehman/...put together some details... Kubby/I have a money issue .... per hour stuff seems pretty high ....My remembrance is the $35 per hour for clerical work is not a standard, $25 is ....A little high .... Norton/ Lehman/These are numbers this firm charges .... Kubby/Can't we negotiate with them? Franklin/I think what you negotiate on is the total price and what their charge to us per hour... that should not necessarily reflect what they pay those people .... pay overhead... I am hoping we will make every effort not to get into those hourly wages. Seems to me that $95,000 ought to cover it just fine. Vanderhoef/When we get to the design of the plan .... I am not clear as to the credentials of the designing group... I am concerned with getting marketing numbers that would not lead us astray ....Not sure that these people have any marketing expert input into that plan. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 20 Franklin/I would not expect to have a market feasibility study from this group... What we will get from this contract is bringing people together to talk about what it is that we want for that place .... Intuitively it is going to be very difficult to say that you are going to have a commercial component in this development .... Design concept... if you had a developer come back that said I want to do a project with a commercial component, you would be able to present to that developer our ideas about how we wanted the commercial to work into the design of this project .... design considerations, not market considerations. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/When I say design, I am not talking about what we normally look at .... It is how you put together in a conceptual way where some of these uses are going to be. It will be an illustration, it will be a picture and then you will be able to see how, if you are going to have commercial given certain types of buildings, how that would fit in visually... as a design component. Norton/If this person comes up here in April .... Wouldn't they meet with us? .... views could be expressed before they get started .... Franklin/So when we have that April 22/23rd .... we should figure that around a council meeting so they can meet with you right at the very beginning. Norton/I think that is really the way to go. Franklin/Okay .... 22nd and 23rd is what we have talked about so far ..... Kubby/Night or day. Franklin/They will be here day and night .... Lehman/ Franklin/So in terms of the questions for tomorrow night, we are okay except Dee, we are going to have a conversation tomorrow and Dean, do you want to have that conversation, too? Okay. Thornberry/What time? .... Morning or afternoon. Franklin/when you guys figure it out, just give me a call .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 21 Thomberry/...2:00 .... 2. Norton/(Agenda # 6- IDOT Transit Assistance Funding). On this DOT grant application. Where is this parking facility, transit hub and neighborhood center? Davidson/That is the Near Southside multi-use parking facility. In spite of your decision to now focus our efforts on the northside, we have gone ahead and left that in there just in case the feds would like to throw $2 million at us .... We still intend to do something down there .... We figured leave it in and see if we get it. Kubby/Couldn't we change this item for the Iowa Avenue facility? ..... Davidson/The key to justifying that to the feds was to orient it to a redeveloping neighborhood .... exactly what we are trying to do in the Near Southside .... Kubby/If we still go ahead with Iowa Avenue, we are not going to have the capacity unless we raise rates a lot .... Davidson/Given some of the things we may end up doing in the commercial space.. residential component... I think if we were to receive these funds, we would have a good case for them .... shift money to the northside .... For their consideration .... We are just set up to have something .... Kubby/I had another item on that particular project .... three items on here... paratransit... seems a little premature to be putting these on the grant application. Davidson/I just talked to Joe Fowler about that today ..... That is in there in case it happens that Iowa City operates it and they would be withdrawn if a multi-year decision was reached with the county .... Kubby/Other transit items that we need .... and use general tax dollars and the transit levy to do paratransit... Puts out a message in a premature way .....I am having a hard time supporting this. Vanderhoef/When there is only once a year that we can put these things in .... nothing that says we can't turn it down .... Davidson/If these funds are approved, we would receive them in the second half of the new FY. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 22 Norton/Are there other transit uses other than these that are identified under paratransit? Davidson/Every year, what we do, Dee, is we sit down with each of the three transit systems and we go through the existing capital plan and determine if the stuff they need next year is still next year and if they want to move up or shift and those of you that participate in JCCOG, that is what you will be approving on Wednesday of this week. So what is in here is everything that Iowa City Transit needs for next year. Norton/...You have to have something in there. Do we have some other items on the shelve? .... that could substitute ..... equivalent items that could be easily identified and slipped in there rather than paratranist which may not even meet our particular need. Kubby/Can we ask that question? If there are other capital needs this money could be used for? .... Davidson/I can almost assure you, Karen, that this entire list will not be funded .....If we ended up with one third of these items funded, we will probably be fine .... My advice to you.. leave them all on because you are not going to get them all ..... Lehman/If we were funded to one third of this, would we be funded by project or by total dollars? Davidson/The total dollars that Iowa City Transit receives against the other 36 transit systems in the state. Lehman/ Davidson/It is project specific ....horse trading... when they are in Des Moines. Kubby/ Norton/Horse trade it in a certain way. Davidson/That is perfectly appropriate to give Ron that direction. Lehman/When is this meeting in Des Moines? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 23 Davidson/It is late in the spring when they finalize things at the state level. Remember, we have to have this submitted by the 1st of April. The state then takes it... probably late in May. Champion/ Norton/ Kubby/It may be out of our control .... Norton/ 3. Kubby/(Agenda # Consent Calendar 3.g(8)- Commercial Loading Zone on Washington Street) I had one other issue .... about the No Parking Anytime on East Washington Street on the 100 block... concerned... no parking anytime signs... yet it could legally be used as a commercial loading zone. It gives the appearance that some kind of preferential treatment for downtown businesses and if it is a commercial loading zone, it should say commercial loading zone... problems... when people see commercial vehicles parking where it says no parking anytime .... I think we are setting ourselves up for miscommunication .... Norton/Isn't that true now? Parcel post can park in a traffic lane? .... Doug Ripley/Within 150 feet of a commercial zone .... they can park in a travel lane .... any commercial vehicle .... Lehman/That is with or without No Parking Anytime? Ripley/That is regardless. That is true now. The signs change was requested actually by a couple of the businesses from that block and also by the police... They were enforcing it .... and non-commercial vehicles were using it .... They were getting towed .... The way it is set up now with the commercial vehicle loading zone is a commercial vehicle can park there to load and unload. The way it is proposed, a commercial vehicle will remain able to park there to load and unload. However, it clears up the fact that only a commercial vehicle can do that and only when they are in the activity of loading and unloading .... Vanderhoef/And the commercial vehicle will have to have signage on their vehicle. Ripley/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 24 Champion/ Thomberry/Sometimes a car is a commercial vehicle .... I am not loading and unloading physically but it is there .... Ripley/The way it is enforced has been explained to me by not only the Parking but also the police officers. They will drive by, if they see a vehicle there they will just kind of make a note of it. If they come back 15 minutes later and that same vehicle is still there and they haven't seen any activity, then they will mark it. Norton/...Karen's point... still a no parking anytime sign and here is somebody who looks to be parking there .... Thornberry/A difference .... Lehman/The only thing that strikes me... there is definitely a misunderstanding when it comes to commercial loading... There is no misunderstanding with a sign that says no parking anytime, none. Kubby/Except when they see other people parking there .... Lehman/ Norton/Could there be any indication on the no parking sign... that says commercial vehicle unloading .... Ripley/...It is to define it as a travel lane ..... Vanderhoef/ Champion/I think we do an incredibly good job of enforcing .... I don't think we do a very good job of commercial vehicles parking downtown .... I have never yet seen a commercial vehicle given a ticket even if they are parked in the middle of Dubuque Street for two hours .... Norton/That is a very good point .... Champion/ Thomberry/If they are commercial and having their motor running... they ought to probably be towed .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 25 Lehman/ Champion/They are there forever. O'Donnell/What is the answer to that? Do you put a time limit on it? (All talking). Ripley/The key word in the Code is the activity... how it is enforced. Dilkes/I think there is a 15 minute limit by ordinance .... Norton/Then the cops ought to leave a warning .... Champion/This is in the middle of the street .... Lehman/...talking about Washington Street. Do we want to... no parking anytime .... try it which means we will not ticket commercial vehicles? We will ticket non- commercial vehicles .... Ripley/Which they are doing now .... Lehman/...I think this is worth a try. Norton/We ought to follow up on Connie's comment, too. If commercial vehicles are hanging out too long, they ought to get a warning and an occasional ticket .... Lehman/ Ripley/I will pass those comments onto Parking enforcement. Lehman/ 4. Norton/(Agenda #12- Agreement Between The City of Iowa City and ACT Inc.). I had a question about .... ACT agreement. Reserving access points for them .... First Avenue Extended... also on Captain Irish... one parcel needs an access... presumably on First Avenue. Vanderhoef/If they choose to extend on their own property, they can do that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 26 Lehman/Jeff, the one access point on Captain Irish is for the road where it extends .... Davidson/Eleanor has most recently dealt with this... My understanding... for the part that we are building this year... ACT's property that has frontage along that, that triangle piece... It allows them to have one access point from Captain Irish to that .... The agreement says... as those future streets, if they are ever extended, we will deal with them the way we always deal with them and not deny them access points unnecessarily .... Dilkes/It says up to one off of First Avenue and up to one off of Captain Irish ..... Vanderhoef/ Dilkes/And we added city standards and specifications to it. Lehman/ Norton/We have gone to 85 foot r.o.w. all around. Davidson/Yes .... sidewalks on both sides, four foot on one side and eight foot on the other which is our arterial street standard. 5. Norton/Are we going to have a picture of the Scanlon Gym thing? Lehman/It is coming up later. Norton/But under other agenda items, the Scanlon Gym. I mean, tomorrow night I want to be sure we have some visuals. Thornberry/At 7:55 we are talking about the Scanlon Gym. Norton/All right ....I just want to be sure there are pictures for tomorrow. Thornberry/You can ask him when he comes in. [Council Break 8:25 - 8:32 PMI This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 27 Neighborhood Traffic Calming Program Evaluation 98-43 S1 Lehman/Traffic calming program evaluation. Mr. Ripley. Ripley/About 16 months ago, eight criteria were established to help us work with neighborhoods on residential and collector streets to manage what they perceived as increasing traffic and increasing speeds. In that past 16 months we have an opportunity to work with one neighborhood .... Teg Drive... process of developing strategies for another neighborhood .... we have also... evaluate what has worked and what hasn't worked .... well... Meeting at staff level...emergency response, Maintenance, engineers, Planning staff, Neighborhood Services .... talked about some of the different issues of traffic calming... made some recommendations to make some changes .... There are six different changes.. three of the six are just basically clarifying.. residential streets are also eligible .... The second correction which is significant discussed collector streets. One of their function is not only access but to carry traffic... afraid traffic will be diverted to other local streets .... #2... make sure... clear that diversion of traffic from a collector street is not something we want to go for. #3. Discusses... speed and volume are two separate issues but very much related... make change from "and" to and "or"...have a very limited traffic calming budget .... limited resources to go around... The other reason... maybe we can deal with it in a different way... outside the traffic calming program... Short term it was felt to focus the resources where they can be most useful... Kubby/Of the three neighborhoods, are they dealing with speed and volme issues? Ripley/Yes .... Each residential area has its own dynamics .... The neighborhoods, Penny Bryn is was the speed and volume concerns... it is also a collector street... speed humps... early reports who is that it impacted speed and volume... seven humps were installed June .... Actually on Teg Drive. Norton/Do you have them anywhere else? Ripley/No .... #4 & 5 go back to clarifying that residential areas as well as neighborhood are eligible. #6 addresses speed humps... After evaluating speed humps on Teg Drive, the Fire Department, Police Department, Transit... Maintenance crews .... determined that this really was not acceptable .... A study has come out... for every eight speed humps that are installed, it is a minute of response time for a fire crew .... On primary response routes, they are not acceptable... They have given me a map that illustrates what their primary response routes are .... mirrors our This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 28 arterial and collector system .... make sure we are not doing a negative impact to their response times on their primary routes. Kubby/What about maintenance issues? .... Ripley/The Teg Drive speed humps have had no maintenance so far .... snow plow operators prefer to have the snow blade down .... I have not noticed any deterioration of them .... The changes that are proposed here do not require formal action but we did want to bring it to you .... make sure you are aware of what is going on ....taken to neighborhood representative council... also mailed them out .... Lehman/Thank you ..... Lucy Choisser/I appreciate this opportunity .... I am in the Penny Bryn Neighborhood Association .... I did have some feedback .... One of the things... difficult... distinction about a residential, collector or arterial street .... When I moved to Teg Drive, our street was a residential street .... became a collector street .... Lehman/It has always been a collector street ....It wasn't open all the way through but it has always been a collector street. Choisser/I thought it was by volume. Lehman/It is by design. Choisser/Then it says on a collector street traffic diversion should not be an objective or result of traffic calming measures .... You can have 485 like on a residential street going very very fast... still be a problem and by this criteria it says it would not be .... Seems that also there is nothing in here... no provision for special instances .... Willow Creek Park .... have a very small narrow strip of green space .... with a street... could not qualify to have traffic calming .... There needs to be something in here about special use... around schools, parks, high pedestrian use where these guidelines may not apply .... The other thing .... seems right now the burden... resident... like this ... council and city staff... want to make our city livable... make it a shared one... try to solve these problems .... Kubby/When a neighborhood... problem is speed and volume... Would Teg Drive under this new policy qualify? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 29 Ripley/They would not qualify under the volume criteria .... your discretion if you want to add a neighborhood... that is entirely up to you also. Norton/You mean that they must meet both criteria .... Davidson/We are not saying no traffic calming on these primary emergency response routes. We are saying no speed humps. Fire Department is concerned about speed humps... may be other strategies that could be used. Kubby/I am hearing two different things... all three neighborhoods .... Ripley/Teg Drive is already through the policy .... Kubby/ Lehman/Let me ask .... On that street there is a park .... access to another park .... close to a trail. I would assume that situations like that will be treated differently than collector streets that go through and are not adjacent to parks? Davidson/I think that is absolutely right .... Norton/It ought to be in there. Lehman/Naturally some of those things would occur .... We lowered the speed limit on W. Benton Street from 35 to 25 past Willow Creek Park because the park was there. Kubby/Right, but we wouldn't do any traffic calming measures ..... not in terms of things we are talking about .... Vanderhoef/Can you think of any unusual- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-43 SIDE 2 Vanderhoef/A true collector is suppose to be for your neighborhood and because of parks, we are bringing in a lot of outside people .... Do we have any other places within the city that you can think of that we would have a collector that might have the same thing as Teg Drive? Davidson/From my knowledge of the other two that we are considering right now, I can't imagine we are ever not going to have one of these... special unique circumstance This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 30 about it .... Other two... one is in location... neighborhood... s.f. residential and duplexes that is directly behind... large multi-family structures with students in it ....The traffic volume from those structures are impacting this other street ....The other one we have is over in Goose Town .... lack of arterial continuity in Northeast Iowa City... a lot of volume going through that neighborhood .... unique circumstance that we are dealing with. There are going to be things like that all over Iowa City .... Kubby/If we change this... give it to neighborhood associations... they say well I don't qualify because it is a collector- Is Dover a collector? Davidson/Yes. Kubby/...lot of public open space .... Davidson/Bradford .... Kubby/I feel like I want to think about this .... Champion/ ....there are special needs .... Davidson/We have done some measures that could be interpreted as traffic calming .... Thomberry/We could just make crummy streets .... Davidson/We hear from people on Highland further down where there aren't those valley gutters... overland flow... Norton/Ought to be some leeway... where there is a lot of traffic exceeding the reasonable speed limit and is slightly under on volume, it ought to get some consideration .... Lehman/Probably a valid point .... Davidson/Four votes to leave that an "or" then?... I think I just counted four to do that. Kubby/In terms of#2 ..... allows us to shift some collector street traffic to arterials. Davidson/...traffic diversion from a collector to an arterial is perfectly appropriate. It is diversion from a collector to a local residential street is what we don't want to see. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 31 Vanderhoef/...recognize the traffic that is brought into a neighborhood ..... city use area .... park .... that we could acknowledge that right up front... special circumstance. Kubby/Although by leaving "or" in .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/Special considerations near public areas. Thomberry/...doesn't mean they will necessarily get it. (All talking). Davidson/Shannon Drive has neckdown intersections instead of speed bumps. Vanderhoef/I would appreciate a new copy of this one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 32 Scanlon Gymnasium 98-43 S1 Lehman/Scanlon Gymnasium. Trueblood/Kevin is doing the talking because I still am not sure what is going on. Kevin Monson/We have... a p.h. scheduled for your meeting tomorrow night... bring to your attention the project that we have been working on for about three years... funded by community fund drive. The original aquatic center, Mercer Park, was designed for the potential of this gynmasium addition... It has been a rather easy project... materials and infi'astructure that we need which has allowed us to control the cost.. getting a very good buy for you dollar .... The addition goes to the north. We have to do no work with the driveway .... The access from S.E. Junior High .... is just being re-routed slightly with new sidewalk. It is a very painless sort of an addition .... There will be some grading involved... The plan is very much what was proposed during the fund raising campaign .... over 16,000 square feet... simple structure... gynmasium facility and a multi-purpose facility... support facilities, extension of present lobby and support storage areas for the gymnasium... present entrance.. maintained... glass... would be removed... extension of the lobby with the present sky light system... We have an outside space .... window opportunities... emergency exiting... place where we have some of the donor pavers .... Potentially an outdoor space... Multi-purpose would be very utilitarian in nature .... acoustical ceiling .... counter in back for a coffee pot... It is very multi-purpose in its nature. The gynmasium will have a maple hard wood floor .... two recreational size basketball courts or three volleyball courts... multi-uses... Also have some moveable seating areas as part of the project. The structure of the building is load beating concrete block... brick veneer... roof structure being steel .... Gymnasium also has a connection... locker rooms... Norton/ .... About the pressure on those rest room facilities added by this. Were they designed to accommodate additional traffic? Monson/Actually we did a code analysis to determine whether we had enough rest room facilities and we do have enough with the current facilities .... We are finding .... many of the recreational programs .... people don't shower .... O'Donnell/The multi-purpose room, is that about 4,000 square feet? Monson/It is 2,600 square feet. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 33 Monson/We have used... skylights in the gymnasium... hoping to use natural lighting... as an alternate... weight the cost of the skylights .... very energy efficient shell for the building.. using present boiler plant... for hot water... We are using a lot of what is already being used there .... Energy efficient shell... governed by Code... lighting is one of those we can drastically affect .... Norton/ Monson/The mechanical is here... mechanical penthouse... Air handling equipment .... Norton/What about entrance that goes over to S. E.? Is that exit only? Monson/This door would be primarily an emergency exit .... Champion/ Monson/...these courts are at least 50 feet wide but they are slightly shorter .... (All talking). Trueblood/They are bigger than the cross courts at the Rec Center. They are seven feet shorter than big courts. Thomberry/Question on the multi-purpose room. Is that available for meetings for neighborhoods ....? whatever... What is the size of meeting room A in the Library? .... Trueblood/If you are familiar with the social hall at the Rec Center .... This is just a little smaller than that .... much larger than our meeting rooms at the Rec Center. Thomberry/So how many people could sit? .... Would chairs be available for that? .... Monson/We have storage .... spaces that you could have stacking chairs .... Thornberry/Different organizations, would they rent that from you? ..... What do you have in mind for a cost? Trueblood/We haven't set up a fee yet. Lehman/All we are looking at is the design right now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 34 Vanderhoef/...is there any divider at this point? Monson/...we have not included it. We do have a smaller room already .... (All talking). Kubby/I assume there would be a white erase board like in most meeting rooms .... something to write on .... Just a little thing .... Vanderhoef/I was thinking about mirrors for aerobic classes .... Thornberry/...All purpose .... Vanderhoef/What would it cost to put in a divider? Monson/It would be somewhat difficult because we need to think about circulation. The shape of this room... flat ceiling and then actually it slopes up to follow the contour of existing facility .... Higher wall surface at the front... taller ceiling space .... difficult to do that... not a flat ceiling.. Also we would need to have access to both rooms... With the thought being we need a large room within the city... Vanderhoef/Whole point is we frequently need more meeting rooms. Norton/...those walls never work... Thomberry/So approximately how many seats could go in there? .... Monson/200 probably. Trueblood/We can seat 300 in the social hall at the Rec Center ..... Thornberry/ Monson/The exterior is very much in keeping with Mercer Park .... east elevation.. front door of building... gym has to have a taller ceiling space... brick detailing .... glazed brick and dot pattern .... all of that detailing is carried through this building ....design was there... We have just continued it and extended it to this facility ....This would then be that outdoor space. It does have extension of the lobby here with the skylights ....matching the present lobby ....(Refers to design concept). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 35 Kubby/Seems like a lot of wall on Bradford. Norton/No sign on Bradford? Monson/We talked about this. This is the Scanlon Gymnasium and we really didn't want the sign of Scanlon to be the only thing you saw from Bradford ..... Mercer Park sign will be moved... over here... So you will see Mercer Park Aquatic Center from Bradford... when you enter the driveway... see this sign and this sign...showing two facilities... Thank you. Trueblood/Somebody mentioned a picture for tomorrow night? Norton/ Lehman/I think the exterior, the last one, would be appropriate to have that available .... Norton/Even the other one... Why not flash them both up .... Kubby/Would you put up again the exterior .... I am concerned about- Because it is a block long... length of building .... Lehman/Will there be landscaping or whatever to break that large expansive wall? Monson/...we have the building lit at night... trees out in front of the lights... Evening you see the building in bright light... branches of the trees... landscaping as part of the plan... This doesn't need to be a building that shouts .... quiet .... It doesn't need to shout for attention... Brick color was very similar to S. E. Junior High... nice little campus of buildings... detailing of the accent... bright shimmer to it ....There is a vibrancy in the materials itself.... decorative enough .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 36 Civic Center Renovation 98-43 S2 Lehman/Civic Center Renovation. Atkins/You have the memo that Dale prepared for you ..... Kubby/Money question. I can't remember, what is the total cost? Atkins/About $1.4 million .... everything ....They are separate projects. Kubby/Dale, what are we projecting would be- Channel 4 shared the cost for the facility outside the Civic Center? Do you know that figure? Helling/We are looking for something that might be available and we have been looking at .... 4,000- 4,500 square feet for a joint facility... right now Cable has about 1,450-1,500 square feet. They really need a minimum of 2,000. I put some numbers in there... just to give you a bench mark .... Kubby/ Helling/We have an amount... most we could afford .... probably...maximum we could go would be somewhere around that number is we bought. Kubby/I am trying... annual cost for Public Housing Authority. If we just end up shifting those costs for Channel 4, is the justification really there? Norton/They pay 30K a year, ! guess .... Assisted Housing office? If you were renting, could you do it for that? Helling/We couldn't rent 4,000-4,500 square foot for that. We could probably get 2,000 square feet for less than that. Norton/How does the share break down between you and PATV? .... Helling/With a joint programming facility, that would subsidize PATV. They have got virtually rent free in the Library now. We haven't worked out the details .... We certainly expect them to meet their share of the operating expenses ....We don't know at this point what we can find out there .... Kubby/What happens... allocate their space... we do the project and we can't find an appropriate space? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session Helling/I don't think we would have difficulty finding the 2,000 .... Kubby/So worst case scenario, we don't do a joint facility. Helling/I think it is time for Cable to move out of there .... they are in very very crammed space .... Community Programmer .... squeezed in. Thornberry/...Can they be anywhere in town? Helling/They can be anywhere in town. The optimum would be close .... Thornberry/There may be some spaces available come late summer .... anywhere in town .... Helling/ Norton/Dale, how much do you want to buy?... prospects that these two entities might share some space in CenterSpace or Library... You would rather buy even for a relatively short ran? Helling/I think we are projecting 3 - 5 years .... 4,000 square feet .... going to cost to lease about $50,000 a year. So you are talking $150,000-$250,000 that would be just gone .... Makes good sense... put that in equity .... Champion/Have you thought about expanding out? Thomberry/You can build up cheaper than you can go out. Atkins/This building was built to be built up ..... Thomberry/I just as soon go up with this one .... Norton/I am not tracking because they are talking about going out of this building in any case, aren't they? Channel 4 and PATV?... Atkins/Yes. Norton/ .... when you are talking about going up, you mean going up for these other purposes? The $1.4- include both this third and the top of the Police Station? page 37 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 38 Atkins/The top of the Police Station is there ....$1.4- is our current estimate ....One of the big hits.. is adding an elevator .... Kubby/Other option... Channel 4 .... Doesn't have to come down that way. Could we live with what we have now for three years and help PATV find a place they can lease for those 3 -5 years and then do one move and then do the Civic Center Improvement in 3 - 5 years? We are doing all these big civic projects .... I don't think we can afford all of them in this timeframe ....Maybe this is something that has to wait for 3 - 5 years .... Thomberry/ ....Iowa Avenue, I would delay that one in order to do this .... Champion/There is a timeliness of doing Iowa Avenue .... Thornberry/There is a timeliness of doing this, too .... Lehman/How critical is this that this project be done? ....What is the impact? Thomberry/I could say the same thing about Iowa Avenue. Lehman/I don't think that is true ....This building has to function. Thornberry/...Iowa Avenue doesn't have to be short term ..... Norton/ .... Can Assisted Housing survive over there where it is very effectively... Public Works... Planning... Kubby/Is it necessary next year? Lehman/...How critical is the addition? Atkins/If you are asking about priority, that is more important than the Police Department .... Thornberry/...trying to get accredited for the Police Department .... Atkins/We built in the additional space on top of the Police Department knowing that sometime we are going to expand it... Planning Department use to be over in the Commerce Building. Public Works use to be over in the Bank Building .... You can't run an organization without having people under one roof. I think the space that Assisted Housing is junk .... They should be incorporated into this building... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 39 (All talking). Atkins/We just put $5,000 into it. I think we are just throwing money away over there. Lehman/The addition to the Police Department is certainly not critical .... Atkins/It is really a nice thing to have... What is more important? I think it is more important to have Assisted Housing over here in decent space in this building .... Lehman/How critical is it that this proceed in a fast time frame? ..... Atkins/Understanding that we wouldn't break ground for probably close to a year .... Lehman/Where is it in your priorities? Atkins/I think it is a very high priority .... We have this block .... Chauncey Swan... Recreation Center. I think those three blocks are being tied together... Wilson's and the Church .... Lehman/What is our lease over here? Atkins/I suspect two years .... about $35,000 a year .... federal govemment's money that leases that space. They would lease the space over here from us... That is part of the financing... We would help capitalize the project by using federal government's Assisted Housing money. Norton/ Atkins/Assisted Housing .... also has room to expand... This room has become far more functional .... Priority would be the third floor... it is a close second. Vanderhoef/What is the cost on finishing off the Police Department? Atkins/About $400,000 for the Police Department. Vanderhoef/Talking about $1 million- Atkins/For everything else? Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 40 Atkins/This building, there is not going to be a big demand for new furniture .... The Police Department will have furniture and furnishings need ..... Housing I have been generally encouraging them to keep up with decent furniture for themselves .... We wanted to get folks in Housing right in the building .... Lehman/ Norton/Public Works is kind of constrained .... Atkins/Each has... Marian... takes space ....Bring inspectors in-house. They need space... Norton/This doesn't correlate with any substantial increases in staff.... Atkins/...personnel .... Karr/Clerk's Office is getting 194 square feet... addition... modest .... no personnel, it is just equipment .... modest .... Norton/We have also added a programmer... added 3 -4 people ..... Atkins/We use interns extensively .... Norton/When was the last big substantial revision done here? Atkins/1991 .... Vanderhoef/...renting space across the street .... Atkins/Security questions .... Lehman/Steve, are you asking us to prioritize this? Atkins/No. Kubby/It is in the budget and we passed it with the budget but we brought it back because there were enough questions .... If we make no decision tonight, it means it goes .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 41 Champion/ .... spending a lot of money... sales tax... library, cultural center, parking ramp, Iowa Avenue, downtown revitalization .... I am wondering if it isn't just politically sound to say let's wait .... I don't feel strong one way or the other about this .... Kubby/ Atkins/I think the Civic Center is a component of downtown .... one of the destination points .... This is a 40 year old building .... It needs some work... It is time. I believe this community .... said we need to invest in our public facilities .... I happen to think it is important to us. Kubby/ ....better investment to make in a couple of years. Atkins/Understand, we will get along .... Kubby/ Thornberry/I think we should do it .... O'Donnell/I do too .... Lehman/ O'Donnell/This is the City of Iowa City... a priority. Kubby/So what has been asked of us that we have said no to in terms of larger expenditures. Thomberry/Aid to Agencies .... Norton/Some of the things we have on the hopper are investments .... This is more of a housekeeping kind of question .... (All talking). Atkins/ Lehman/Would it be appropriate for us to proceed with the plans and specifications- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-44 SIDE 1 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 42 Lehman/Would it be appropriate for us to spend the money to design it to get it ready to where we could bid it and at that point say it is a go or we will wait for a year? .... Atkins/All of this fits together, PATV getting chased out, Cable TV needing some additional space .... It all kind of fits together and I would like to solve many of those issues one time and call it a day .... Vanderhoef/When you talk about PATV or Cable moving out, do you see any advantage to having Cable in this building? Atkins/ ....yes. I would prefer city services in one location to serve the community. Vanderhoef/ Atkins/My preference... Assisted Housing .... nature of the kind of service .... Vanderhoef/...conversation we had earlier, we could go up .... I am looking out there .... 6- 8 months we may know whether PATV has a place to go or not .... At that point is when we should be saying .... Atkins/ Vanderhoef/Our Cable. Atkins/We would be much more aggressive about looking for space if the project is a go because we have to find a spot for them. Helling/It is not a question of alternatives... The one we want the most is to purchase large enough space for a joint programming facility. If we have the option... alternative of leasing rather than buying .... or just something for Cable .... then the alternatives open up .... We have been pursuing the ideal. Vanderhoef/Timing on all of this. In 6 - 8 months we may have an idea .... Atkins/But to give that decision in 6 -8 months, Dee, I need to go to work today. Dale needs to get with PATV and Cable and begin making that decision. Thomberry/You mean the city would go out and buy another building to put in Cable?... Kubby/This expansion does not incorporate Channel 4. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session Thomberry/Crud. Vanderhoeff But it could .... Atkins/No .... Vanderhoef/...we can go up. Atkins/And that space is taken in this plan. All you can go is one story .... Kubby/Could it be reconfigured to have PATV and Channel 4 here? .... Atkins/Our analysis was no .... Vanderhoef/So you have planned all the space we can possible have in this building? Atkins/If we put a third floor on and finish the PD, this building is done .... Norton/ Kubby/If we don't do anything it happens .... Norton/...have only rough estimates of costs .... Lehman/Until you bid it, you really don't know. Norton/ Thomberry/Building specs .... Norton/You could get a better estimate than we now have .... Atkins/The more engineering and design work you put into it, the better estimate .... Norton/Going to have to do that at some point. Lehman/...get the numbers. Norton/I surely think we ought to go get some firmer numbers .... Thomberry/Tell them to go ahead with the preliminary project as far as building specs. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 page 43 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 44 Atkins/Do I hear you say take it up to the point of bidding? Thomberry/Yes. Lehman/I think we design it and everything short of bidding it and then we decide yes, it is a go or no, we put it on the shelf.... Thomberry/ Norton/ (All talking). Lehman/I think I hear move ahead. Arkins/Take it to the point of bidding. Lehman/It is easier to talk about something like that when you can show the picture. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session Council Appointments 98-44 S1 Lehman/Council Appointments .... Vanderhoef/...We have one for Animal Control. Norton/Ursala Delworth. Kubby/I would nominate Ursala Norton/I would second that. (All talking). Vanderhoef/Okay. Norton/Then we have two for the other one. Jim would be good... both suitable. Kubby/I will nominate Irvin Pfab. Vanderhoef/I will nominate James, then. O'Donnell/I will second Jim. Lehman/ Kubby/ Vanderhoef/I like the broad range of things that he has been involved in the school and the international... information technology .... good credentials that I like. Kubby/Pfab has a working knowledge, too. Lehman/And he has been there a long time, too. Norton/This is just an unexpired term, right? So this is just a year appointment, basically, right? Lehman/Less than a year. Vanderhoef/...six months .... page 45 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 46 Champion/ Vanderhoef/If it is only six months or less, then we appointment for that six months and the full term beyond. Norton/So this case is just a one year appointment ....tough ....both look fine to me. I just happen to know Jim... Kubby/ Lehman/For Jim, how many? All right. Kubby/What else can we do to try to generate some interest from Summit Street? Champion/I will take an application and drop one off. Kubby/Okay, that would be good ..... Norton/ Champion/...I will take an application .... Animal Control Advisory Board - Ursala Delworth Broadband Telecommunications Commission - Jim Pusack Historic Preservation Commission - Re-advertise This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 47 Organizational Issues - Schedule 98-44 S1 Lehman/This says Organizational Issues. One of the things that we need to talk about- I guess it is not necessarily organizational issues. We need to talk about the schedule. Thomberry/I would like to propose a minor change. I am proposing it. Champion/(Can't hear). Norton/This is calendar issues, Dean? Thomberry/It is .... Lehman/If there are dates we need to change .... Thomberry/This is the 23rd .... okay with that ....I am okay with tonight ..... (All talking). Thomberry/Is there any chance that we could move the 20/21st of April? .... I don't care which way we go. Vanderhoef/The 27/28 would be great for me also because I am out of town on 20/21. Thomberry/ Lehman/Would the 27/28 work for everybody? Karr/So in April we are having 6/7 & 27/28. Lehman/ Kubby/I am due in a conference the 24th, 25th, 26th ..... Norton/ Champion/That would work for me. Thomberry/And there is nothing on 4/Sth of May? Karr/There is something on 4/Sth. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 48 Thomberry/I am going to be in Tennessee that week... move... either ahead or back .... then do the next one on the 25/26th. Lehman/If we go to 27/28 April, that apparently will work. Thomberry/ Lehman/Are you talking about 11/12th of May? Champion/I will not be here May 3/4th. Thomberry/I won't be here 4/5th either. Champion/ Karr/We are in May. Lehman/May 4/5th are currently scheduled .... changing them to 11/12th? .... Change 18/19 to 25/26th. Norton/25th is Memorial Day, that is a holiday. Lehman/Do we want to do the 26th? Kubby/We could collapse... do formal and informal... all on 26th ..... Champion/I will not be here the next week. Norton/I will not be here the next week ....1/2nd June. Karr/May .... Norton/Depends on what you do with 1/2nd of June ..... You have shoved 6/7th to 27/28th ..... 4/5th to 11/12th. Now moving 18/19 to 25/26? .... Thornberry/Just the 26th ..... Norton/I have mild concerns. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 49 Karr/We are talking about... April 6/7, 27/28. May 11/12 & 26. Cancel June 1/2 and we are to the 15th of June .... Lehman/That works. Karr/...past Memorial Day for Karen .... got the same number of meetings, just rotated. Norton/Hesitating on 26th .... avoid 1/2nd. Karr/We can do that if that will work for everybody. Lehman/It seems to work. Karr/Then we are to June 15/16. Lehman/That is a go. Karr/...June 29/30 is that okay? Two people tentatively gone 29/30th .... same problem here. Do we want to move 29/30th? .... Lehman/ Norton/ Thomberry/Does anybody have any trouble with 22/23? Norton/We need to slide into July and then come back .... Lehman/29/30 of June are okay .... Karr/Then you have got the 6/7th .... Is there anyone else gone? .... Kubby/! may be, depending on art fairs I get in ..... Karr/You could move 29/30th to 6/7th ..... Champion/I probably will be gone July 11-16. Karr/6/7th you would be here. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 50 Lehman/15/16th? That is only one meeting for the month. Karr/That is one meeting in June. That was what I was just going to point out. Lehman/We can't do that. Karr/We could always have a special meeting if we need to. Lehman/ Karr/...if we know that ahead of time, that is the key. Staff can plan around that and know that ....Move the 29/30th of June to 6/7th of July, you could free up the 13/14th ....You would have to get back on schedule at some point, maybe .... Get back on the 27th. So your July meetings would be 6/7 & 27/28. Lehman/ (All talking). Norton/You have 6/7 July and 27/28... Move into August. Lehman/ Karr/July 6/7 & 27/28. Council/(Yes.) (All talking). Vanderhoef/ Karr/Skipping 13/14th. (All talking). Karr/We moved the June meeting to first week in July and we didn't want them back to back. Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 51 Karr/You can have just one in July if you would like to. Norton/Let's be careful... one in June... then 6/7 of July; 27/28 July. Tell me what you are going to do in August. Lehman/Have we eliminated June 29/30? Karr/That is a possibility, yes. (All talking). Karr/Write them up ...... Lehman/You and I will meet on the appointed days .... Norton/ Karr/ ....April 1998. April 6/7 & 27/28 May 11/12 & 26 June 15/16 July 6/7 & 27/28 Now, if! had to recommend, just looking at the calendar in August that I have right now, I would suggest August 24/25. Lehman/What about 10/1 lth? Karr/I have at least one if not two people gone. Now we can have it .... Lehman/That gives us two months with one meeting this summer... Is that good? Norton/I am gone the 10/1 lth .... Karr/In August we have got 24/25. That puts us back on schedule for September ..... September 7/8 ....You want to just right now plan on the 8th... plan on that and not be Labor Day. Lehman/Can we not go any further than this? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 52 Karr/...regular schedule. Norton/From July 27/28 it leaves you a pretty fair span there until 24/25th of August. Lehman/...we can always have a special meeting. Vanderhoef/Could we move the August back? .... Karr/Then you would have a week apart, the 24/25th and 31/1 .... Kubby/Are people here on 17/18th of August? Karr/Dee isn't .... (All talking). Karr/Why don't we wait and maybe in middle of June, start looking at August and September calendar and refine it. Kubby/...make plans to be away... then not fair .... Karr/What I am saying is I wouldn't go into September making any more changes. I would end it in August for right now. Norton/...if move August 24/25 back to 17/18, that makes a big difference to me. Lehman/We haven't done that. Norton/I would have to rearrange some plans. Lehman/Can everybody make all of those meetings? Council/(Yes). Lehman/Then why don't we go with that ..... We can call special meetings .... Karr/I will do a memo and you will have it tomorrow night in front to you ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 53 Council Agenda/Council Time 98-44 S1 1. Champion/...I get a little disturbed about the minutes from the meeting with the bar owners and the police .... I was a little disturbed about the slant the bar owners are taking. To me they are saying we don't want minors in their bar, we are losing business .... it ruins their business. They are trying to make it morally wrong for us to keep minors out of their bars insinuating that when minors drink at private parties, there is no control over the alcohol... I find it very self serving .... Lehman/I don't think we have bought into that .... Atkins/I asked the bar... tell me what is on your mind and they came with the list and that is what is on their minds. I can assure you that we do not agree with many of those .... Lehman/We are all together .... Kubby/Another issue that they are interested in having is uniformed officers... at their doors .... Atkins/I will strongly recommend against that. Kubby/...R. J ....said no way ....I am happy. Champion/ Atkins/ (All talking). Thomberry/When I had a store downtown, I asked the Chief if I could hire off-duty policemen in uniform. He said no .... Can I hire them off duty out of uniform? He said that would be up to them .... But as long as it did not interfere with their sleep and they're away from that type of job .... O'Donnell/I think there is a liability issue here. Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ ....we will be responding to a number of those issues ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 54 Thomberry/ Lehman/ Norton/ 2. Lehman/I want to bring it up for scheduling purposes .... A couple of things that Sarah pointed out... Stepping Up people have some very definite ideas .... Sarah's memo, we need to sit down and decide what we are trying to do before we go out and have staff spend a lot of time doing something that may not work at all. I have gotten sample ordinances from Ames .... neither of them dealing with kegs or tappers. I would like to see this put on an agenda along with the two or three police matters that we talked about on our pending list and see us address this fairly soon .... We have some very definite things we have to answer for staff before we can ask them to write an ordinance .... I would like to see that on a work session soon. Kubby/...access for alcohol for minors... Kegger Ordinance is just one way to try and address that. Why are you suggesting that we link that with other police issues? Lehman/Because I think this is a meeting where we should have R. J. here to comment on out thoughts... his reaction ....A couple other police issues that I think we could do at the same time. Norton/Are they related to this general matter though? Kubby/No .... Lehman/No, they are just police issues. Kubby/...broader ....I don't personally have a problem with asking R. J. to come twice within a year .... Norton/We ought to focus on this matter of drinking, downtown or elsewhere ..... Lehman/ Atkins/I will have it on for next- Lehman/All right, that is fine. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 55 Atkins/Okay. 3. Kubby/I just have one issue ....Steve... follow-up with the University about skywalk plans. Atkins/I did. Did you see the note in the packet? ....They will let us know sometime in April. (All talking). Lehman/They do not have the final design yet. Dick Gibson told me it won't be coming until, go gosh- Atkins/Late April. Lehman/That is when they will have the final design. Kubby/Thank you. 4. Norton/I want to ask... Have we decided how we are going to respond- When are we going to deal with the entrance issue? Is that a separate topic? Entrance overlay, the guidance to P/Z? Atkins/Karin is preparing reports for you on that. Lehman/They have been working on that as we speak. Norton/...Planning staff, they will help us, okay ..... 5. Norton/(Consent Calendar #3g (1) Dan Pinegar-downtown bars/students).I wondered about the letter on the students on the bar police committee. Is that a complaint from- I couldn't understand that letter. Was that a complaint about not being represented on that committee? Atkins/They were never intended to be. Bar owners wanted to meet with us and I suggested a committee with them. Norton/It was very heavy duty language. I was surprised. Maybe we ought to talk to that person. I will send them a note. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 56 Lehman/I think maybe we could respond to that. Norton/Do you want to respond to them or are you going to do that, Steve? Lehman/I can do that. Norton/ Lehman/They were never intentionally left out .... addressing issues that didn't necessarily- Atkins/I will draft you- 6. Norton/I want to find out where we are going on SEATS. I am getting antsy. I don't know what the next step is. I don't know what we are doing. Thornberry/We are going to have a meeting this week. Dee and I- we want to give you as much information as- If we get together and get a meeting of the minds this week but it probably won't be tomorrow. It will be this week. Norton/As long as there is some movement going along .... Thomberry/There is now movement. Norton/I thought there was a general movement to get this thing wound up and settled. Thornberry/There is now movement. Lehman/Let me say, I had some conversations with the county board and I had some more today. If what comes about happens, we will need to meet.. Thursday morning at 8:00. Karr/Can't do it Thursday at 8:00. You won't know soon enough for us to post 24 hours, will you? Lehman/We will know before tomorrow night whether or not we are going to need a special meeting and the special meeting will be to accept the recommendation from our negotiating team and that will take place on Wednesday morning at 8:00 is the tentative schedule. Now that meeting may not be necessary. But if it is, it will be on 8:00 Wednesday. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 57 Kubby/I mean, you know, what are we talking about? Lehman/We are talking about an offer that will probably we made from the county to the council or to the committee and that committee will give that recommendation to council on Thursday morning at 8:00 if that is agreeable... Karr/No, we can't. Dilkes/We have to know what the recommendation is and then we have to have 24 hours. Karr/24 hours from the time you know... So it can't be 8:00 Thursday. Lehman/We will know whether or not we are going to have a meeting .... Thomberry/Ernie... What you said was the county will be giving the negotiating team an offer. We will then give that offer to the council .... Norton/They are giving us a proposal. Lehman/They are giving a proposal to the committee... recommend it to us. We will choose to act on it however we desire. Kubby/Is the committee now Dean, Dee and Ernie? Lehman/I will be there and the committee has not changed. But I will be there. Norton/Let me ask. Does this mean that the proposal comes to you and you don't get a chance to respond to the proposal? Lehman/No, but you will. We all will. Thomberry/No, we will pass- If the proposal- If you want the proposal as given to us, you can by-pass that meeting. Just give it directly to the council. Kubby/Yeah, why not? I agree. Thomberry/And let the council make the decision. Disband the god damn- Lehman/I believe there may be certain things on that proposal that we would like to perhaps modify or negotiate and I don't think that is going to be done in a public This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 58 meeting .... Whatever the result is, the council will receive the proposal as made by the county along with the recommendation and we will do as we see fit ..... Norton/All I want to know was what we get from the committee... is a proposal and a proposed response ..... Kubby/When will council be able to direct because we are not going to see it... If you make the counter proposal to the county, it is without four votes. Lehman/...whatever comes back, comes back to us. Thornberry/What you are saying is there is no negotiation. So why- Then why give it to the committee? Lehman/Because I think there are some things about the proposal that we may able to discuss prior to bringing it to council. Thornberry/But we can't negotiate at that time with them to clean up any language? Lehman/Negotiate the best deal you can get .... Norton/Wait a minute .... (All talking). Kubby/So are we counting on having a special council meeting on Friday? Vanderhoef/I cannot do it on Friday. I can tell you that right now. No way on Friday. Karr/Thursday afternoon? Vanderhoeff Thursday is JCTA and ECCOG. Thomberry/We can get together after the meeting, Dee. Well, no. Lehman/We may not choose to have a special meeting. Kubby/Why is it up to the committee as to what we see and what we do with it? It should be up to four members of the council. Thornberry/Then you haven't seen what we have done so far since last June. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 59 Kubby/That has been a problem. Norton/... they are going to get a proposal from the county, right? .... recommend... or we want the council to accept it with some certain modifications or possibly reject it .... Then we all meet .... Kubby/Of whether we agree with the recommendations. Norton/I don't think they do anything with the county after they get the proposal from the county. Thornberry/We, to this point, have not given to the rest of the council a final recommendation on anything that the county has given us because it was taken out of our hands. Kubby/So why don't we try to schedule a special meeting on Monday, the 30th? Vanderhoef/That would work for me ..... Lehman/This special meeting can be set on Wednesday afternoon after our discussion of sales tax .... We will then know whether or not we need a special meeting .... Kubby/After that, Ernie, we have on Wednesday a JCCOG meeting at 4:00 .... Lehman/ Vanderhoef/Wednesday afternoon we are already in a meeting because we are doing sales tax .... Kubby/We will want to focus on that and we have to get over to JCCOG. (All talking). Champion/I will be gone on Sunday. Lehman/Dee, that is where we are. Norton/Okay, that is where you are. Okay, then I will defer any other things I have got .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 60 7. Thomberry/Only one thing. We went to P/Z and they have this ..... of what they handed to people in the audience .... I thought it was pretty good. It lays down the rules. You can talk a second time for two minutes once everybody has talked .... good deal. Kind of neat. 8. O'Donnell/ .... on the restaurant on Scott Blvd., neighborhood commercial. I would like to do all we can to expedite this. This has been two years ....people want in the neighborhood ..... Lehman/Mike, I suggest that you talk to Mr. Streit. If he would request that we expedite it, we might do that. The request should come from the person who is asking for it rather than us, with the reasons why. Kubby/The other thing I would be willing to do. If we decide to stay with 100 and he has to go through a special exception, I think we should waive the fee for the application. he has been through the process twice. I wouldn't have a problem waiving that fee. Norton/That is true. I think we surely should do that. O'Donnell/Okay. 9. O'Donnell/On SEATS, I am getting a tremendous amount of calls on SEATS. I went down and sat with the drivers and dispatcher down there. As I was leaving, there was a political poster on the front counter or a brochure which I thought was totally inappropriate and pointed it out to them. I sat there twice now and it is real apparent to me that SEATS needs management. We are sitting waiting for figures from the county ..... I don't believe they are kept... not kept accurately. I just think for our SEATS negotiators, you know, if they are overcharging us- They are not overcharging us. They are putting $100,000 into a general fund... don't ask me for an increase, give me a check. I would like to recommend, whoever does this, an advisory board and I would like It comprised of citizens, council members and supervisors and that is for accountability which they do not have down there now. And as far as I am concerned, the ball is now in the county's hands because we have come up with projected figures and we didn't pull it out of the air ....They have to comeback and make an offer. Norton/I think it will involved an advisory board .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 61 10. Vanderhoef/Another calendar thing. The Peninsula design meeting is set up... 22nd and 23rd. I am still out of town on the 22nd. Would it be okay to request that has theirs on the 23rd? Lehman/Our meeting with the consultant. Norton/ Vanderhoef/The consultant is going to be here two days .... like to be in on it. Kubby/Not between 4:00 and 6:00, any other time. (All talking). Norton/During the day on 23rd .... I will do it whenever .... Thornberry/I wanted the meting for 20th and 21 st because I was going to be gone that week. (All talking). Vanderhoef/Thanks to all of you who have taken care of Pete and I for last 2-3 months .... 11. Lehman/I have one other item that was brought up to me by a local developer and this is something that we have already discussed .... Bring it up .... Area out on the west side. We have got some neckdowns. We made a requirement on a subdivision with the expectation that future years may experience enough speed and volume of those streets that we need something to slow the traffic down. We saw earlier tonight, we do not want humps, particularly on collector or arterial streets. The developer in this case who agreed to do this .... is concerned about doing it in the next two or three and has suggested that he would like to pour the curb straight and if at some point in the future it is determined that we need- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-44 SIDE 2 Lehman/Would then put them in. I got a memo from Jeff which you won't have time to read. The gist of it is, that if the traffic situation out there becomes difficult, it may do so 15, 20 or 30 years from now when some of us... may not be associated with the development. Then would ..... problem depends on how quickly the development takes place .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 62 Kubby/...If we do need it prevents from forming into a problem .... Lehman/If we put it in and it doesn't work and we don't like it, there are cement saws that can remove it .... Kubby/Our expense then. Lehman/...told Mace .... If we are interested in relaxing that requirement, not to require the neckdown. In other words, let him pour straight curbs, he needs to know right away .... On the other hand .... question of two things: whether or not we feel the neckdowns are an effective way of controlling traffic or 2- If we feel prior to the development of a subdivision .... we want it to be more difficult to get through, restrict the flow of traffic... do some things up front .... neckdowns .... We have agreed to that .... What we need to say is do we stand by what we have already said and what Jeff Davidson and the Planning Department has said or do we say no, we think we will take a chance on it. Kubby/One of the factors .... We incorporated that agreement... through a public process. And for us to negate that- Lehman/It wouldn't be negating that... What we would be saying... may have to put them back. Kubby/Gets lost in the shuffle and there are arguments later ....This is clean... we should keep it. Lehman/...Is there any interest in changing it? Vanderhoef/I am interested... concerned about wide swings around those .... Lehman/Do we have them any place in town? Norton/This is complicated .... he was going to do this. ! would like to wait until tomorrow... He didn't want to do Shannon Drive with an off-set .... Lehman/You all have copies... If there are four people tomorrow night who wish to change this, we will discuss it. If not, we will leave it the way it is. Thornberry/I have a question on a design of a choker. The street width is what? ..... Lehman/I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398 March 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 63 Thornberry/Say it is 25 ..... Lehman/It wouldn't cut down to less than 22... Thomberry/Now this is a design that is approved all over the country? Norton/Yes, one of the standard ones. Thornberry/Does there seem to be more accidents in these types of intersections? .... Lehman/Don't know. Thornberry/...you would have to go slower... could even possibly be dangerous. Norton/Also designed to let pedestrians get across .... lot of virtues .... Thornberry/ Norton/We are talking about pedestrians .... Kubby/If there are four people who want to change the agreement, that we give at least the courtesy to the neighborhood associations in that area .... 12. Norton/...acknowledge tomorrow night... West High .... Wrestling Championship .... don't forget Kirkwood. Kirkwood won the National Junior College... (All talking). Kubby/There are a whole bunch of amazing debate people .... I think we should also be acknowledging them and not just the sports ..... Norton/... forget that Ernie until I con finn ....If they got 5th, we can't acknowledge that .... Adjourned: 10:30 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 23, 1998 WS032398