HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-02-20 TranscriptionFebruary 20, 1996 Council Work Session 6:30 PM
council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Fosse,
Yucuis.
Tapes: 96-29, all; 96-30, all.
FrinGe Area 96-29 S1
Nov/ Fringe area first and
budget things.
then we are going to get
into CIP and
Baker/ .... leave at 9:00.
Nov/ We will do our best ....
Franklin/ Did everybody get to look at all of the stuff that you
had so far on the Fringe Agreement so I don't have to go back
over all of that? That is the area we are talking about in
terms of the growth area (refers to map) .... I want to start
out with some of the basic premises that we have used through
the years when we have talked about the Fringe Agreement with
the county .... If you disagree with any of these premises, we
probably should talk about that. First of all, the development
within the growth boundaries of the city .... should be
regulated by the city to insure compatibility with future
urban development .... There is a reason why the city should be
concerned about what happens in that future growth area when
that land is still in the county and that we should have a
very strong role in determining what kinds of development
happen there and how they are designed ....
Norton/ Makes me a little uncomfortable because when there is not
an area of that sort .... then what do you do?
Franklin/ Okay, let me get to that.
#2- Is that when there is development that occurs within the
two mile extraterritorial area, it has a direct impact on the
maintenance, capacity expansion and traffic control of city
streets .... regardless of where is happens .... Obviously we
are talking about the two miles because that is all we have
anything to say about. What is beyond is out of our
jurisdiction. As a compromise, related to this second point,
the city has accepted development targeted to certain areas of
the fringe. The north corridor has... been the area that is
targeted for development that both the city and county agreed
was an appropriate area for residential development. Where we
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have diverged is when we have looked at development outside of
the north corridor in those other areas around Iowa City in
which the county has advocated development and the city has
not.
#3- The character of Iowa City is affected by the development
that happens within that two mile area. Whether Iowa City
appears to be a compact well planned city or whether it
appears to be a community which is just sprawling... out into
the county... And that has to do with the character of the
community and it also have to with all these other service
issues, too.
#4- Development is best served by municipalities and therefore
should take place primarily within the corporate limits of the
city and that has to do with the municipal services that are
provided... concern... is use of septic systems .... within
water shed that feeds into the Iowa River north of our water
plant .... concern to Iowa City .... Contributes to the content
of the water that we then have to treat and drink .... Has to
do with the whole realm of municipal services that are
provided ....
Does anybody have problems or questions with any of those
basic premises? Now remember this is from the perspective of
Iowa City. It is not the perspective of the Johnson County
Board of Supervisors ....
Norton/ ..... we are county members, too. Their finances are a
concern to me ....
Franklin/ Yes, of course, we are within the county and that is why
the issue of where should development take place is a critical
county question as well as just an Iowa City question .... In
that #4 point, it doesn't say that all development should
happen within Iowa City. It says that development should
primarily happen within the corporate bounds of the city so
that those services can be provided. Counties are not set up
to provide the services that city are.
Lehman/ .... after the word city we probably should put, "but
development will take place outside."
Franklin/ That is why "primarily" is in there. That recognizes that
some development is going to take place in the county ....
focus it then... in north corridor .... part of the function of
this Fringe Agreement and the tools that we have for
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implementation .... is a 28E agreement with the county that
agrees on where development should take place .... There is a
Fringe Agreement right now. It doesn't expire until 2005 ....
It is just not working very well. The other way in which the
city can work toward these four basic premises is the right
that we are given by the state to impose full urban design
standards anywhere within that two mile area that we wish. We
could impose those standards throughout the two mile area or
we could, as a city, decide where they should be imposed based
on whether development is appropriate or whether it is
premature .... So the standards are used as a disincentive for
that development to occur in the county. Okay. Let's go to the
county's latest offer, proposal on the agreement.
Kubby/ The last couple of letters that we received from the county
..... Duffy... Sehro.. There isn't any statement about .... how
they view the agreement. That has been one of our biggest
differences on how we implement the 28E Agreement .... We say
it is a regulation .... they are making decision based on the
document being a guideline ..... That is a crucial issue that
I think we should bring up at the county so that we have
agreement about how we are going to act about the written
word. That has kind of been left out of the discussion ....
Franklin/ Probably you won't have an answer on that until the
particulars of the agreement-There is some consensus .....
Kubby/ ...If they are saying we are going to act the same way we
are now no matter what the content is-
Franklin/ It is difficult for me to speak for the board but I think
they have viewed the language of the agreement in a different
light than we have in the city .... One of the efforts here in
this agreement is to clarify the language, make it less
vague .... It started out much more circumspect and got vaguer
as time went on ....
Kubby/ At some point I would like us to have that discussion.
Lehman/ Last time we met with some of the county, one of the things
that came up was an Appeals Board. It is much much easier to
say these are the rules .... If it is just a guideline, we just
waste a lot of time.
Kubby/ Do people agree with that?... a guideline, it needs to be
more than that.
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Lehman/
Nov/ If there are exceptions, they, too, will have to fit into the
guidelines. There are only certain things that will allow you
to appeal.
ubby/
Franklin/ What I thought I would do is go through the points of
agreement, possible compromises and points of disagreements...
Points of agreement. That annexation is the purview of the
city. #2- Urban design standards will be imposed in the growth
area .... $Fnat that means is that within the area that we will
potentially annex, any subdivision that comes in would be
required to put in, if it ~s done prior to annexation, city
streets, concrete, curb and gutter, storm sewer, sewer lines,
water lines capped .... you still need to put in a system that
actually treats sewage and you still need to have a common
well .... At the time it is annexed, you could slip right into
the city system.
Norton/ To some extent it would be a dual system.
Franklin/ The reason for that is to discourage that development
from occurring before it is part of Iowa city.
Norton/ You have no interest in easements?
Franklin/ No ....
Nov/ We have also found that if you have easements, ten years down
the road... there is somebody there who claims they have never
heard about it ....
Thornberry/ What so you do with the ones that are already in
existence then?
Franklin/ Subdivisions? Well, I just have to deal with them like we
have dealt with the in the past. They come into the city, we
then as time goes on do a capital project to put in the
street, improve the sidewalks... up to council whether you do
an assessment or not.
Thornberry/ Wendram Bluff, for example.
Franklin/ Wendram Bluff. I don't know exactly what the r.o.w.s are
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there .... In parts that would be very difficult to retrofit
into city streets .... We have to make the decision at the
point of annexation whether that makes sense .... given those
kinds of factors of the future cost there may be for
improvements.
Thornberry/ Right now they don't have the plumbing .... streets
aren't wide enough and probably shouldn't be ....
Franklin/ Just to use that as an example, I would think that the
only reason Wendram Bluff would come in would be because they
wanted to because their wells were bad .... water lines...
probably be assessed and the streets would be left as is. You
couldn't bring them up to city standards .... The difficulty
then is how do you provide the other services...
Nov/
Franklin/ Walnut Ridge was originally platted as a private
street .... then it was changed to public streets ....
Kubby/ ...design in on the front end ....
Franklin/ Taft Speedway is a road that is from the county. Foster
Road also .... that will be paid for by development of abutting
properties and the general tax payers.
Norton/ Right now .... the areas within our growth area...are within
our drainage .... Some are not? ....
Franklin/ We have... Highlander lift station .....
Norton/ In some sense our growth area need not be contiguous with
our drainage setup?
Franklin/ Oh, no. You can make the choice to go beyond that and to
put in lift stations... build a bigger plant some day ....
Norton/ In the areas of concern in the west and the north where we
have no growth area but we have a two mile but we don't have
growth reason ....
Thornberry/ That 965 is going to be a growth area.
Norton/ If you put a growth area in there even if we run a
arbitrary line, you then at least can impose those standards
within that area and have a little bit more leverage.
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Kubby/ I think it is more appropriate to be Coralville, though ....
Norton/ I am talking on the north as well.
Franklin/ You would want to make those decisions about the growth
policy independent of these decisions about imposing standards
because you don't want to just make it in your growth area so
you can impose standards because you can impose standards if
you wish to without being in the growth area.
Norton/
Kubby/ You could also say city standards half mile around ....
Norton/ That would be another alternative.
Franklin/ What I was pointing out here was points of agreements
that we have right now. A point of agreement that we have
right now ..... is that within our adopted growth area that
city standards would be imposed for any subdivisions there. In
this letter of January 18, the county said that the board
would agree to require city standards in the identified growth
area in Area B.
Nov/ However, that is only Area B.
Franklin/ I am sort of assuming that in Area C they would similarly
agree to that. We will have to go back and ask that ....
Principle of standards with in the growth area was one that
they were accepting in this. Is everybody okay with that?
Okay.
Possible compromise. Fringe Area A .... north corridor all the
way over to Hwy 1 and east of Hwy 1. The new part of this in
this amended agreement .... was to commit development that is
rezoning to RS-3 essentially in the north corridor, all the
way east to east of Hwy 1. So the old Area 4 ..... would be
open for development. The compromise that is being suggested
here is that any rezonings to RS-3 would be consistent with
the Fringe Policy. If a developer would do cluster
development, the property could be rezoned to RS. RS-3 is one
dwelling unit to three acres. RS is one dwelling per one acre.
RS is a higher density. You get a higher density if you do
cluster development. It is an incentive to do cluster
development as opposed to a requirement. The point that would
need to be clarified here is what is meant by cluster
development because the county has a cluster development
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provision in their subdivision ordinance.
Norton/
Franklin/ However, when the
the commissions, that
narrowly ....
original proposal was put together by
cluster concept was defined much more
Norton/
Franklin/ You have it in a packet of stuff from November 28. You
have to really dig through because this has a couple of
versions. What was in the proposal .... page 2, proposal 11-27-
95, Fringe Area A. It is crossed out because that was the
county's response .... This was in the original proposal with
a zoning density of RS-3.
Norton/ I thought you meant that there was a separate document that
had cluster requirements other than the county's and I don't
see that.
Franklin/ I am saying that we should have such a beast. If this
agreement is going to provide for cluster development with an
incentive or as a requirement, that we need to define and
clearly understand, both city and county, what cluster
development means ....
Norton/ Would you reiterate once more .... precisely the virtues to
the city of the cluster requirement other than the lower
density .....
Franklin/ I think the main thing has to do with the character of
the area. The character of the city ..... What you have as a
response from the county brings that within the entire two
mile ..... To see the advantage to the city .... you have to
look of it in the context of focusing on this north area and
that in this north area... that development that takes place-
First of all we are conceding that development takes place
there and that it should be in this large of an area. Then we
are saying, as it takes place, it should be in a cluster
fashion. The City of Iowa City has expressed concerned already
through policy and ordinance for the landscape, the topography
and environment. This cluster concept carries that out ....
also defines the character of Iowa City .... you need to
understand for yourselves what it means to you and why ....
Kubby/ Also helps focus traffic into certain areas.
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Franklin/
Norton/ Why do we care?... That is not in our growth area.
Kubby/ That doesn't mean that that is not going to happen .....
Norton/ .... seems to me if they make cul de sacs and make it hard
for themselves to get the snow out .... Don't see that it would
bare precisely on the city's interests ....
Franklin/ In terms of designs of subdivisions, too, when you get to
things like fire protection and difficulty of getting in and
out of subdivisions, the city, by signing those plats, has
some role in how safe to unsafe those subdivisions are.
Lehman/ Do we have any responsibility whatsoever?
Franklin/ I couldn't answer what the liability is.
Kubby/
Franklin/ So what is the liability, Linda?
Woito/ For what?
Thornberry/ Are you telling me then that in the Fringe Area around
Iowa City, I couldn't build a house and have three acres?
Kubby/ It matters what we decide-
Norton/ In some places you could ....
Thornberry/ Not everywhere? ....
Franklin/ Area B ..... you would have to have 40 acres.
Thornberry/ Going from 40 down to 17
Nov/ It is the county zoning laws. They have their own zoning laws.
Thornberry/ Well, I live in the city and have 3 acres and if I
lived in the county I could only have 17
Franklin/ No, we are talking about minimums and maximums here. With
RS development in the county, you have to have at least 1
acre. With an RS-3, you have to have at least 3 acres if you
are just doing one house .... cluster development, you can take
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that overall density and you can move it around .... open space
but your housing is on a smaller portion of the land.
Kubby/ Big reason, especially in the north corridor that that
cluster development is important to me is that instead of
having 40 different wells, you can have one community well ....
group septic tank... prevents pollution in Iowa River ....
Thornberry/ The septic system doesn't run into the river, Karen.
Kubby/ Sooner or later it does. In the north corridor there is much
higher chance of septic systems running into the river much
more quickly .... Area A .... topography and the way that water
flows.
Thornberry/ I don't agree .... I don't know if I agree with forcing
people to cluster ....
Franklin/ .... The proposal is to provide
clustering, this compromise proposal ....
county has come back with ..... incentive..
higher density .....
an incentive for
That is what the
is that you get a
Thornberry/ You may have more than 17
Franklin/ Depending on how
development.
you ultimately define cluster
Kubby/
Lehman/ The county, I think, agrees to this.
Norton/ .... In this one now we come down to the possibility of an
incentive to cluster ....
Kubby/ Don't see we've come down. The county has suggested-
Lehman/
Franklin/ What they mean by cluster and what you mean by cluster
may be two different things .... If you can agree in
principle .... that Area A, RS-3 .... If somebody comes in and
wants RS zoning, we say that is inconsistent with the Fringe
Agreement unless you are going to cluster .... Then we can pass
it on with a recommendation to cluster. What I am saying is if
you get that far, the next step would be for us to go back to
the county and say okay, let's define what cluster is so we
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don't get hung up on that one .... This groups needs to decide
if you can go along with what the county has proposed in
Fringe Area A which is cluster with an incentive, not as a
requirement ....
Norton/ .... make same rules west and east of the road.
Franklin/ The original proposal has RS-3 the entire area and a
requirement for cluster. The county came back and said RS-3 on
east side of Hwy 1 and RS on the west side of Hwy 1 and you
can cluster if you want to.
Norton/ More important... to us .... to have RS-3, is it not?
Franklin/ How do all of you feel about that? Is density the greater
issue for the city or is it the design of the development?
Let's hit the density first.
Norton/ Density is the one that loads us with streets... all the
rest of the infrastructure ....
Thornberry/ ...How many houses does it take to make a cluster?
Franklin/ I didn't give you an answer. It depends on what land you
are working with .... RS-3 density on 40 acre tract, you could
get 13 homes. Now on that 40 acre tract...13 homes...where you
put them on the property that determines whether it is
clustered or not, not the how many. If you have an RS density,
you could have 40 homes on that 40 acre tract and again, you
could still cluster it but you still would have 40 homes.
Density is critical to the number of dwelling units you are
going to have on a given piece of property and then the
cluster has to do with the design. You got to start with the
density .... complicated when you start trading these things
off.
Norton/ ....
Nov/ If you are dealing with something like 40 acres, you are
dealing with more than a single cluster of 40 houses ....
Thornberry/ ...have quite a few houses in one area .... open
space ....
Lehman/ With the county's proposal, they are saying west of Hwy 1,
it would be RS-3 with RS available only if they cluster. Is
that correct?
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Franklin/ That is right... for the entire Fringe Area A .....
Lehman/ The only way they could get RS is if it is clustered?
Franklin/ That is right ..... Dee .... insist on RS-3 regardless...
Kubby/
Baker/ ..... want to keep it low to encourage development inside
the city? ....
Franklin/ Well- Because originally on focusing development in the
north corridor, the idea was to have it focused in a narrowly
defined area and then you could have it at that higher density
of RS but it would only occur in that area. What has
happened... smattering of development all the way around at
RS. So I don't know. If you can keep it focused and targeted,
and agree that it is not just going to open up in the entire
two mile area, then I think you could probably go to a higher
density .... You focus it where you can do your capital
projects. We know we are going to have to improve Dubuque
Street .... Prairie du Chien and signalization at Dodge. We are
going to have to improve Dodge Street .... Since that is the
case, let's have the development... on those corridors, not
off of Rohret Road, American Legion and very place else and
allow the higher density to accommodate that development that
wants to happen out there in the woods.
Baker/ In general, I don't have a problem with higher density as
long as we have the control over (can't hear). A very tight
control .... in exchange for a higher density .... The lower
density, the less I am inclined to regulate, in general ....
Lehman/ I have not problem with the county's proposal for Fringe
Area A. I can live with that.
Franklin/ In terms of incentive thing for cluster, I am not exactly
sure that RS-3 is an incentive .... If the market if for more
spread out development, you may not get anybody biting for
cluster development .... I don't know that.
Nov/ We could just say RS-3 and eliminate the word, "clustering."
Norton/ .... nature of land leads to a certain amount of that.
Kubby/ .... One of the things that we talked about in December was
that having less density in Area B .... prime ag ground. Trade
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off... allowing more density in Area A .... Have to protect the
sensitive areas via clustering. I am saying that we mandate
clustering .... willing to say minimum of one acre in whole
area for tradeoff ....
Nov/ The county really wants RS...
Kubby/ I am suggesting RS with mandating clustering
Norton/ You are talking about Area A only ....
Franklin/ We have always... RS for A with clustering and see what
happens in the other areas .... RS with cluster required.
Thornberry/ I wouldn't do that .... I like the way it is ....
Norton/ RS-3 with an incentive to go RS-1 if they cluster .... split
the difference ....
Nov/ I think the city is going to say require and the county is
going to say incentive.
Franklin/
Thornberry/ I don't think we need to mandate ....
Norton/ ...question is is the clustering mandated or encouraged?
Thornberry/ I really hate government interference with development.
Council/ (All talking),
Thornberry/ .... with provision that if a developer chose to cluster
then the developer would do so at the RS .... that makes sense.
Norton/ How many people would be in favor with #2 as written? ....
Baker/ RS with mandated clustering.
Norton/ Let's get straight with what we are talking about here.
Franklin/ We got two proposals here... county's that says RS-3 with
an incentive of RS for clustering. Ernie and Dean have said
that is what they favor. Larry has suggested RS zoning with a
requirement for clustering and Larry and Karen are in that ....
Three of you that have not spoken.
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Vanderhoef/ I like #2 as it is written.
Nov/ The way they have worded this... really an RS-2.
Franklin/ ...we will have to figure that out ..... just need to
clarify ....
Norton/ Let's just hold that for a minute. I don't want to vote.
Can't you go on? I am contemplating the virtues.
Franklin/ That is up there then for A.
Norton/ I was going to be ponderous ....
Franklin/ Okay. B and C I think you can deal with essentially the
same way. Although the county does not say anything about
requiring city standards in the growth area for .... C but
let's assume that they are okay with that. So basically B and
C... would be dealt with the same way... their proposal is
that-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-29 SIDE 2
Franklin/ What they proposed in A, the RS-3 with the RS incentive
for clustering would be what happens in the non-growth area in
both B and C. Now this is a gross divergence from the
Commission's original proposal. What it basically says is that
growth is not targeted in this two mile area. It can happen
anywhere within this two mile area but within the city's
growth boundaries will require city standards. That is
basically the only distinction that is made then.
Kubby/ And that is going to create the need for arterials in every
area around Iowa City instead of focusing it on one area ....
I support having them be less dense outside the growth
boundary in B and C and focusing development for RS in the
north ..... that allows more people.
Franklin/ In terms of Area B that makes a lot of sense in terms of
water table and corn suitability rating. Our growth area
encroaches into that area where there is a higher corn
suitability rating and there is a high water table and the
thing that saves it .... those developments will be on
municipal services. Septic systems don't work well with a high
water table° Makes a lot of sense for B particularly that that
not be an area of extensive growth.
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Norton/ .... What ever happened to good old A-l? ..... That was the
notion in B outside of growth ....
Franklin/ So it doesn't take all development away. It is basically
for farmsteads and one other split ....
Norton/
Kubby/ The thing to remember here is the state gives us power to
impose full city standards the full two miles .... We can make
happen what I believe is best for the city because we have the
leverage.
Thornberry/ Just because you have the power doesn't mean you have
to use it.
Franklin/ Iowa City is the biggest part of the county.
Baker/ ...do the right thing ....
Kubby/ Having RS-3 development on every side of the city is not a
good vision.
Thornberry/ It doesn't mean you have to use it ....
Norton/
Baker/ .... the interests of the city is served by control around
the city ....
Kubby/ .... deciding for ourselves what we think is the best plan
and then going after that.
Thornberry/ I don't know everything there is to know about this
land use and what the needs are going to be 50 years down the
road ....
Nov/ The most important part about the new agreement is that it is
reviewed once every three years ....
Norton/ At least some of is concerned about whole general notion of
sprawl... conceive what we want to drive through .... It seems
to make sense to try to keep that ..... preserve agricultural
lane.
Franklin/ It is.
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Thornberry/ Talk to me, Naomi.
Nov/
This is something that we have to say we all agree on. What I
am hearing is a spilt among council .... We haven't a serious
agreement .... I want to hear a basic consensus.
Council/ (All talking).
Norton/ We are down to two options on Area A and we got two
options- C, what does that have? The same concerns?
Franklin/ B and C I think you can treat the same.
Nov/ Except if the county wants RS-3 and I am hearing people here
say A-1 rather than RS-3.
Vanderhoef/ The growth is going to definitely bring traffic in ....
When I look at that traffic, do I want it clustered?
Kubby/ ...do you want it happening in a certain part of town? ....
Thornberry/
Lehman/ Linda .... What role do property owner's rights have in our
discussion?
Woito/ I hope they have a lot of rights. The Constitution still
exists ....
Lehman/ We are talking some very valid issues .... How far can the
city go without stepping on property owner's rights?
Woito/ You can go to the point where you have downzoned the
property to the point where there is no reasonable use of the
property left. I don't think you are looking at downzoning to
the point where you have no reasonable use of the property
left.
Lehman/ So you are comfortable with what we are talking about?
Woito/ Yes, I am ....
Kubby/ We do want to encourage growth happening within Iowa City in
the growth areas.
Lehman/ They may not be a legitimate reason for doing what we are
doing in the Fringe Area.
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Woito/ The reason why you want to do that is because it is based on
health, safety, welfare, infrastructure, finances and all
those many land uses. It is not just we don't want any money
going outside the city.
Baker/ Point I was making is whatever develops outside the city...
consequences inside the city ....
Thornberry/
Franklin/ The original proposal ..... it does not contemplate
downzoning anybody's property. It gives rights to anybody who
has current zoning. So that whole issue of downzoning is not
a feature of any of these versions to the agreement.
Kubby/ In the proposal of 11-27-95, Area C, that is where some of
the dedication of easements is ....
Franklin/ I am assuming that in Area C they would treat it as in
Area B. That is in the growth area, city standards would be
required. If you are to go back and say no, we do not agree.
That is B and in C policy should be the same as in Area A,
that is development all the way around, their response may be
then we are not going to require city standards within the
growth area. Remember, you approve plats and a plat is not
final until the city has signed it as well as the county. You
have that authority regardless. To impose those standards
within the growth area. If you agree in the Fringe Agreement
not to impose those standards, then you have given up that
right.
Norton/ I still think it would be desirable... to define some
growth area in A that is not now there.
Baker/
Nov/ The county's original proposal was industrial and commercial
in Area C beyond the city limits. That is something we did not
want ....
Norton/ .... we are talking RS-3 .... We have two options there: RS-3
with an incentive for RS-1 clustering and RS all the way with
clustering mandatory .... The other question is what do you do
with those outside areas of B and C...?
Kubby/
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Cl~ council meeting of February 20,1996.
WS022096
February 20,
Council/ (All
Lehman/ Are B
Franklin/ And
Lehman/ Is it
Franklin/ Yes.
1996 Council Work Session
talking).
and C basically along watershed lines?
boundaries.
the current corporate
basically watershed?
Page 17
Lehman/ (Refers to map).
Kubby/ ..... If we change out growth areas then that affects what
rules are played in what areas.
Nov/ Lift stations create more expense.
Vanderhoef/
Franklin/ Wherever the growth area is outlined, that is where we
can serve with gravity sewer.
Vanderhoef/ And can we go further south with gravity?
Franklin/ No. You can go as far as the growth area boundary line
and that is far as you can go with. Then you have to start
pumping it up hill to get it to the plant because it is so
flat.
Council/ (All talking).
Franklin/ When you make decisions about your growth area, you
shouldn't make decisions about your growth are based on what
you want to do with your Fringe Policy .....
Norton/ Let's decide what we are going to do here.
Thornberry/ How much is a pump station and who pays for it?
Lehman/ Depends on what size.
Thornberry/ How many units does it take to make it viable to put in
a pump station?
Arkins/ Napoleon Park is about $5 million .....
Thornberry/ How many units? .....
Thisrepresents only 8reasonablyaccuratetranscrlpfion ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of February 20,1996.
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February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18
Atkins/ The developer makes that decision at the time ....
Thornberry/ The developer would have to pay for that?
Atkins/ I couldn't imagine passing that cost onto the public ....
Thornberry/ The city wouldn't put it in just to get growth there?
Atkins/ ...you could make that decision ....
Franklin/
Baker/ (Can't hear). Given the two options .... as far as planning
consequences and impact upon the city, is there one weighted
more than the other .... positive impact on the city?
Franklin/ I am thinking. As Dee said, it depends on what happens in
the other areas. If you stand fast on focusing development in
one part of the Fringe Area it seems to me the logic and
ability to plan for capital projects is more reasonable with
the RS and the whatever requirements you want to have with
that.
Baker/
Franklin/ If you them open up the other areas, you start to lose
some of the logic .....
Kubb¥/
Norton/ In Area A, east of Hwy 1, RS-3 with RS if you go
clustering .... West of Hwy 1, RS-1 with mandatory clustering.
Arkins/
[ON BOARD: A
RS-3 w/ RS incentive to cluster
RS -reg cluster
East of Hwy 1 - RS-3 w/ RS option
West of Hwy 1 - mandatory cluster]
Norton/ Half of it is going one way and half the other ....
Thornberry/ What is the rationale for the difference?
Norton/ Trying to keep some RS-3 ground as a compromise between
density and clustering. The overall numbers bother me .....
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19
(refers to map) .... the total number of dwelling units that
would be created in that area.
Nov/ ....I don't think it would change very much. If whole Fringe
Area A is zoned RS-3 and you may have an occasional person
coming in with an RS request, you tell them... only if you
have a cluster ..... I don't know if the bottom line is going
to change if we propose that.
Kubby/ I disagree... North corridor .... kind of development... much
more dense than that.
Franklin/ It varies ....
Kubby/
Thornberry/
Kubby/ The issue of mandating clustering an issue no matter what
the density is .... I might still want to say I think
clustering is a good idea for that area.
Thornberry/
Norton/
Franklin/ Remember with the subdivision, you have the most
authority. That is it not like with the zoning where you are
advising the county on zoning. When a plat comes before you,
if there is language within the Fringe Agreement that you are
going to encourage clustering and I think what that means and
how encouraging you are going to be will need to be in
there .... That when it comes to the city, the plat has to be
approved by the council ....
Baker/
Lehman/
Baker/ As far as whether you require or encourage... I am not sure
the RS by itself is enough of an incentive to make it happen.
Nov/ That is what the county proposed.
Lehman/ How do you compare Fringe Area A with the Area C outside
the growth area?
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20
Franklin/ In terms of what? What we desire there? I come back to
the notion of this whole agreement is a compromise on
development happening within the two mile area. The compromise
Was that development would be encouraged north of town as
opposed to east, with, west. In terms of making any
distinctions based on the land or the desirability of the area
for development, in time the west area may be just as
desirable as the north ..... Especially with Weber School
there.
Lehman/ ...sewage system .... Area A is definitely the same
watershed that we draw our drinking water. Area C outside the
growth area is in the watershed ....
Franklin/ I think A was chosen as a growth area was because it was
there... happening. In the 70's... idea was to focus
development where it was happening which was in the north
corridor .... That was where people wanted to be... that it be
in that particular area. It is the fact that Iowa City, North
Liberty, Cedar Rapids.
Nov/ They work in Cedar Rapids and they want to live in Johnson
County.
Franklin/ The west may become as attractive in that respect with
the access that is there from 218 ....
Kubby/ .... I am not willing to put the tax payer having to do CIP
projects of equal necessity on all areas .... That doesn't seem
responsible to me.
Lehman/ We review this every three years .... flexible sort of
agreement.
Baker/ .... Because we can review it in three years, it makes me
more inclined to support the RS in that area ....
Nov/ It is very difficult to downzone .... Much easier to go the
other direction.
Kubby/ ...are people thinking about saying no to RS-3 outside of
growth area in B and C?
Lehman/ I would do that for three years.
Norton/ I am.
This represents only a reosonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 20, 1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21
Nov/ That one is relatively easy.
Norton/ I still like RS-3 with clustering encouraged and RS-1
permitted ....
Lehman/ With the definition of clustering.
Franklin/ Okay. So I think I hear four for the RS-3 with RS
incentive for clustering.
Norton/ For Area A.
Kubby/ You guys are being less dense than I am .... of zoning. That is a turn around.
Thornberry/
Franklin/ What I have then in Area A the county proposal of RS-3
with RS if you cluster. And B and C city standards required
within the growth areas and outside the growth areas is the
original proposal from the commissions.
Kubby/ And what is that called?
Lehman/ This Appeal Boards thing I think we need to include.
Franklin/ I think it was A-1 .....
Kubby/ So currently, what is that zoning classification?
Franklin/ A-1. Anything that is currently RS under this agreement
could still develop ....
Norton/
Franklin/
Kubby/ We still need to come up with a definition of clustering.
Lehman/ Right.
Nov/ Can we come up with that definition at another time?
Franklin/ Yes, I think we should.
Kubby/ We mean the houses are fairly close together and you have
got lots of open space.
I mean in terms
This represents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Februaty 20,1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 22
Franklin/ I can work on that and bring something back to you.
Thornberry/ Define fairly close in the county.
Nov/ ...no more than 1 1/4 acres per dwelling unit .... That is
somewhat tight .... depends on how you define clusters.
Franklin/ I will put something together with some options and then
you can pick .....
council/ (All talking).
Franklin/ The last point then is the Appeals Board. When Naomi and
Ernie met with Don and Steve, there seem to be some consensus
among those four .... what was discussed at that time was the
necessity for criteria for evaluation and that is not
something that is in any of this yet .... they agreed that
there needed to be some criteria for that evaluation. That
these would be special circumstances. It wouldn't be just
anytime .....
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ Karin, when we talked about this, we were not talking about a
citizens group similar to our Board of Appeals. We were
talking about a committee composed of two council members and
two board of supervisor members ....
Kubby/ I don't think that that is a good idea because the reason we
don't have elected people on the Board of Adjustment is
because of the recourses you just accorded doesn't go back to
any body if people are dissatisfied .....
Nov/
They were talking about a situation where the city and the
county do not agree on a subdivision plat and therefore we
should get together and we should decide whether or not this
subdivision deserves a compromise and therefore it does not
fit exactly into the standards that are in the Fringe Area.
Franklin/ I think... just about zoning. Appeals Board would have
the authority to review "special exceptions" to the agreed
upon zoning. I think it had to do when there was a disparity
on zoning.
Kubby/ Gives us more input ....
Franklin/ Indicates a move on the Board to look at the Fringe
Thisrepresents only aressonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Februa~ 20,1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23
Agreement a little bit more along the lines of law rather than
guidelines ....
Nov/ We did say that... this is a contract. We intend to treat it
that way.
Thornberry/ What if it is 2-2?
Nov/ ...county was very interested in having some way for somebody
to appeal and that is as far as we went.
Lehman/ Have representative for county zoning and city zoning ....
Instead of councilors .....
Nov/ .... joint jurisdiction kind of thing rather than a separate
citizens board of appeal.
Thornberry/ .... should have some board to go to.
Franklin/ If it is going to be that sort of thing where you are
appealing your decision of governmental jurisdiction, then it
is going to come under different law... it would have to be an
appointed group. What I think the intention was here is that
if a zoning case came before the county and was to the city
for review... at a staff level .... at loggerheads. And that
then this group would come together and talk about whether
there was some reason for not following the agreement in this
particular case and the criteria that would have to be
developed are what would be used to make that judgement ....
Kubby/ ..... to say if we disagree to get together and talk .....
Thornberry/ It would go right to this loggerhead group, right?
Norton/ Concerned ....
Franklin/ Need to have some criteria to use for your judgement so
that it is not just arbitrary. Have you agreed that it should
or shouldn't be people who are members of the board and
council? That is what is proposed is two members of the board
and two members of the council.
Thornberry/ I have no problem with that.
Lehman/ I do. I would really like people for the P/Z Commissions
.... They are closer to it.
Thisrepr~ents only areasonablysccurate transcription oftbelows City council meeting of Fe§rua~ 20,1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ Use some of each.
Lehman/ Problem I have with council folks exclusively is... I
really don't understand all the issues... P/Z... they have
some expertise .... If you want a council person on it, fine...
I think somebody from P/Z .... should be on it because they
would be more familiar ....
Norton/ May be precedence somewhere.
Nov/ They said two county representatives and two city
representatives. It didn't say they have to be elected ....
Kubby/ So in A we said RS-3 everywhere with RS with incentive to
cluster with the definition of cluster .... B and C we said in
growth areas they have to do city standards and outside growth
area it is A-1 and anything that is currently zoned RS will
stay that way ....
Lehman/ And we will review it in three years.
Kubby/ And we talked about the appeals idea. That we like the
concept.
Atkins/ So I understand it, you have taken a position now. Do we
send this to the county in the form of correspondence and they
will respond?
Nov/ We are responding to theirs.
Atkins/ Is this your policy position and further counter proposals
from the county are-?
Thornberry/
Franklin/ You want us to work on the definition of cluster and the
appeals before you go back to the county?
Nov/
I sort of think we should tell them we have agreed on these
points and there will be written definitions of clusters and
...written definitions for appeals.
Franklin/ Okay.
Kubby/ Can we send them a new copy of the Fringe Area Agreement
Thisrepresents only areesonablyaccuratetranscrtptton ofthelowa City council meeting of Februaw 20,1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996
with what we
like... ?
Franklin/
Council/
Nov/ This
council Work Session Page 25
have decided so they can see what it would look
Yeah ....
(All talking).
is a break ....
[BREAK 8:15 PM]
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-30 SIDE 1
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26
CIP 96-30 S1
Atkins/ Being handed out to you now is a list of projects... This
is Rick's work for the upcoming construction season .... A
second list which affects our capital project planning ....
(Handouts: 1996 Construction and Major Calendar Year '97
Project For Construction/Will Begin The Design Of The
Following in 1996) These are fully in compliance with the
priorities that council .... on the Seven Year Plan .... Our
project planning has changed over the last couple of years...
because the citizen input has gone up dramatically on the
front end .... adds a lot of time to the process .... better
job... does add time constraints. Secondly, it seems like we
spend more time in Linda's office because of land
acquisition .... goes fairly well... does take a lot of
time .... We have tried to build that into the schedule.
Norton/ .... people more litigious or something?
Fosse/ One of the aspects that makes it worse is it has been a
number of years since we have been getting federal aid
projects ..... certain series of hoops to jump through for
property acquisition ....
Atkins/ Bottom line is .... it is more like two years .... move
through the list fairly quickly. The 1996 Construction means
that we are going to build these projects this construction
season. We will begin working on... all of those other
projects for construction in 1997 .... Construction season and
your budget years are not the same. There is the overlap ....
Rick .... walk through these. This is substantially in
compliance with the council priorities ....
Thornberry/ These are all financed under this budget?
Atkins/ Everything is budgeted, ready to go.
Fosse/ I do have a specific question for you on the
Burlington/Gilbert Intersection project .... final design...
possibility of completely closing the intersection of traffic
during construction rather than phasing it .... that has a
potential of saving us the duration of the project and saving
us in money .... option of putting in brick cross walks .... If
you don't mind, we will include that as an option in the
bidding process and go fishing for what kind of savings and
time and money we can get.
Norton/
Thisrepresents only ereasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingofFebruaw 20,1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27
Fosse/ That is something we have to work out whether to phase it or
not .... Jeff is going to go around to businesses tomorrow and
talk to them about their feelings on it .... detour around the
area.
Lehman/ What is your opinion...brick as opposed to colored (can't
hear)?
Fosse/ Brick has better skid resistance ....
Lehman/ What kind of durability as far as driving on it?
Fosse/ We have read a lot of studies from other communities. There
seems to be good data... properly constructed-
Lehman/ (Can't hear).
Nov/ I am not happy with it. We have buses and trucks driving along
Washington Street and you can see the wheel line where the
brick has gone concave. Burlington will have even more of that
kind of traffic and I question whether or not brick is going
to hold up .... because it is not holding up on Washington
Street.
Fosse/ A little different base underneath it. The way we are
proceeding right now is brick will be an alternate so that if
we find the cost to be excessive or if you just plain decide
you don't like it we are not bound to that. We can get this on
the informal agenda the night before the p.h. so we can talk
details on it.
Nov/ What about using concrete pavers? ....
Fosse/ ...the problem we found on them is they fade out over time
and you don't get the long term visual benefit ..... Durability
seems to be there for the concrete.
Council/ (All talking).
Thornberry/ Pretty expensive little nicety ....
Arkins/ If you have some very very serious reservations about any
element of the project, we need to know ....
Norton/ Southside Plan also wanted interesting crosswalks.
Fosse/ George/Oakcrest .o. that is a repair that we need to do ....
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Februa~ 20o1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28
Kubby/ Does that cause sewage backup?
Fosse/ It is a storm sewer and there is a nearby apartment building
that is alleging problems associated with that .... needs to be
fixed and so we are going to do it.
Melrose West Paving Improvements. One of those that takes even
more lead time than we expected .... pushing to meet the
schedule on that one ....
First Avenue Muscatine to D Street. Those are both federal aid
projects. Property acquisition process that is slowing us down
there.
Soccer Site Access Road. We are not sure where that is going.
Norton/ Where is that, literally?
Fosse/ It will go from that intersection (refers to map) ....
ADA Curb Ramp. Continue on our program with that .... Tuesday
night we will be setting p.h.
Abbey Lane Storm Sewer. We talked about that.
Kiwanis Park Storm Sewer.
Lehman/ ADA curb cuts, are they all planned?
Fosse/ We know where this years
years program is based on
certain interests ....
program is going to go
recommendations that we
and each
get from
Lehman/ Have we gotten a
Building because they
building.
request from the old Press Citizen
can't get handicap access to that
Council/ (Other conversations going on).
Fosse/ Let me follow up on that.
Nov/ I don't understand that.
Atkins/ This is the intersection (refers to map). The building is
the responsibility of the developer .....
Lehman/ And that is the responsibility of the property owner?
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29
Atkins/ Yeah .... Press Citizen.
Norton/ Which one are we on?
Fosse/ ADA curb ramps .... We are putting some in adjacent to
parking areas .....
Kiwanis Park Storm Sewer. That is moving ahead.
Leachate Force Main .... got a good start on the lift station.
Landfill Cell... 50% complete... continue it this year.
Highlander Lift Station .... awarded last council meeting.
Arkins/
Fosse/ The Landfill and Cell and Cap those are already under
construction now ....
South Gilbert Storm Sewer. That one is response to flood of
'93 .... bumped a couple of times.
Iowa River Trail .... That is the one that the Engineering
Division got the low bid on .... Start construction soon.
Madison Street Water Main and Paving. That one is already
under construction.
Shamrock Peterson Storm Sewer... another neighborhood meeting
on that one pretty quick .... late summer construction.
Park Road Storm Sewer... maintenance work.
Norton/ You skipped the Longfellow. That was the one and found a
bunch of holes. What are they going to do?
Fosse/ Made some real progress on that lately... had a difference
of professional opinion... two different firms... One firm is
so confident that they were right that you can seal those
sewers that they volunteered to seal a whole block for
nothing. They came to town Monday and Tuesday last week, they
did them .... they got it done .... We are going to check it out
and make sure we don't have any damages in there... Call the
original firm back in town and say finish up. We may have some
more short liners ... we need to put in. Looks like we are
going to get that done.
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30
Norton/
Fosse/ Zimansky Sanitary Sewer. Small project... private
services... put in an extension .... Court Street right after
Fairview... They are taking care a lot of the coordination
work .... after '93 cave ins... putting in these little
extensions of public sewer .... We have been springing for
those as long as they build them to public standards...
Property owners take care of coordination as far as design ....
permitting .... contribution on their part ....
Whole series of water related projects there ....
Norton/ Still drilling at night.
Atkins/ Those are private contractors, folks...
Nov/ And the contract says X dollars ....
Kubby/
Norton/
Fosse/ Jumping down to some of the non-construction related things.
We are updating our flood plain maps... that is underway ....
Norton/ You jumped right over that $75 million number.
Fosse/ Too many zeros.
Atkins/ .... It is $758,000.
Fosse/ Take two extra zeros off.
Council/ (All talking).
Lehman/ South Corridor Sewer at $17 million. Is that the one that
we got the $12 million bid on?
Fosse/ Right.
Norton/ How did
Atkins/ ...pump
Norton/ Sandusky,
it get back up to $17-?
station, inspection ....
is that in there too?
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31
Atkins/ Sandusky I do not think is in there .... storm sewers are a
part of that.
Norton/ Plum Street is in there and Sandusky is not.
Fosse/ The Sandusky and Plum Street relief sanitary sewers are in
there. There is a Sandusky Storm Sewer Project which is
another animal. The sanitaries are in there .... I think that
$17- is an old number. We will have to check on that.
Norton/ It included those two things, didn't it?
Fosse/ Yes they did.
Norton/ That is gravy in there .... should be more like $12-
Atkins/ The contracted amount for the park was like $12.9- You add
the inspection on top of that .... I will correct that number.
Fosse/ Moving onto the non-construction items. Got the Flood Plain
Map Revisions underway.
Landfill Ground Water... associated with that leachate control
project... Also we will need to start doing gas monitoring out
there for production of methane ....
Right now we are doing a lot of research in GIS. Not spending
much money on it right now ....
Work on the Design Standards.
Norton/ Did anybody go look at those good wells that a young man
mentioned to us?...
Atkins/ You will be getting a report.
Fosse/ The next page... read through it... questions .... (Major
Calendar Year '97 Projects For Construction).
Atkins/ I want to flag a couple for you .... ACT/Hw¥ 1 Intersection
Improvements .... Dodge Street Improvements-Governor to
Dubuque. I am assuming we will try to do that together ....
political pitfalls. We are beginning to put the work together
on that.
Vanderhoef/ ACT/Hwy 1, is that where you have got the lights?
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32
Atkins/ Intersection redesign and the installation of a
traffic signal substantially because of the ACT traffic.
Vanderhoef/ Does that include paving the rest of Old Dubuque Road?
Fosse/ No (refers to map). This is the location for that east west
arterial where that alignment is going to come in on Hwy 1 at
that location. That is a key feature of that project.
council/ (all talking).
Fosse/ (Refers to map). It is going to come across Scott Blvd and
eventually go into Hwy 1 and where we do this intersection
project... put the traffic signal in is going to determine the
location of that intersection that is ultimately going to
serve that east west arterial .... we have been working on that
alignment.
Norton/ Does ACT have their campus laid out well enough to know?
Nov/ Yes ....
Council/ (All talking).
Lehman/ (Can't hear).
Fosse/ (Can't hear).
Atkins/ We can't hear.
Fosse/ It does in fact impact the Larson and Gatens ....
Atkins/ We will send out-We have a map drawn that shows that lay
out ....
Vanderhoef/ I am still interested in what it will do with First
Avenue...
Atkins/ First Avenue Extended is not in our Seven Year Plan.
Vanderhoef/ I realize that and I have questions when we get to it
on Scott Blvd.
Norton/ Comp Plan didn't have it either.
Council/ (All talking).
Thisrepresents onlyareesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of Februa~ 20,1996.
WS022096
February 20, 1996
Atkins/ Can't hear you.
Norton/ I have trouble when I go
to relate that to this ....
Council Work Session
Page 33
looking at the Comp Plan and try
Atkins/ Our point is well taken... These projects are in compliance
with the general direction of the Comp Plan .... I think we are
okay on it ....
Norton/ ...all one big ball of wax.
Fosse/ This is our Seven Year Plan ....
Norton/ When do we review that?
Atkins/ That is your call... The first list is really go .... We
intend to begin the work on all of these .... If there is
something in there... pull back. We believe this to be in
compliance with your goals.
Lehman/ One thing that would be very very helpful to me... When we
get these CIPs... map with the projects located on them ....
Nov/ We used to have colored lines ....
Lehman/ I really don't know where all of these are.
Kubby/ Helps us visualize.
Nov/ Rick has a map like that.
Arkins/ What we will do is take one of these maps. We will draw
these projects on that map and we will put it out in the
lobby .... City 1996 CIP... narrative... If it helps
illustrate ....
Lehman/ It would help a lot.
Kubby/ ...have it at the p,h .... when we vote in the budget ....
Thornberry/ I haven't seen the map of the proposed Scoot Blvd
Extended into ACT Circle. Does that go through the Gatens
property and all of that?
Atkins/ It depends on the option that we select.
Kubby/ Scott doesn't go through ACT.
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WS022096
February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34
Atkins/ (Refers to map). Here is Scott Blvd Extended eventually to
go over the highway .... somewhere along this ridge line will
be the east west arterial to hook up. First Avenue Extended is
the other section of the thing. That is the one that is not in
the Seven Year Plan... (refers to map) .... The big ticket
item... is the bridge ....
Norton/
Atkins/ The Old Seven Sisters... that traveled road is still in
there.
Vanderhoef/ Are we putting in Phase 1 of Scott Blvd?
Atkins/ We will be designing it this year.
Vanderhoef/ Is that in conjunction of this sewer thing? .... My
question is .... we could do First Avenue Extended instead of
Scott Blvd Extended.
Atkins/ Theoretically, you can reprioritize anything you want ....
We are into these up to here ....
Norton/ How does Phase 1 take us?
Fosse/ Up to the east west arterial.
Atkins/ We will give you a map of that.
Thornberry/ Phase 1 ....
Nov/ Design is all we are doing ....
Fosse/ When we get to construction in Phase 1, we will build it to
the east %test arterial. Phase 2 (refers to map) .... get us
over the interstate. Phase 3 brings us into Hwy 1.
Atkins/
Thornberry/ Phase 4 .....
Atkins/ We have got a map ....
Norton/ How do you budget this package here?... Somebody is
spending time and energy ....
Atkins/ There are engineering estimates on all of these
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February 20, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 35
projects .... they
Drive ....
are rough ....
Example...
Waterfront
Kubby/ On the first page for construction... Melrose West Paving
Improvements. Isn't that to 2187
Fosse/ That is West High to 218.
Kubby/ What is the next page?
Fosse/ That is basically an asphalt overlay from the Interstate on
out to the city limits pass the county shop.
Norton/ State...
Fosse/ They are contributing about $1 million for the West
Melrose .... 218 into West High.
Thornberry/ What was final consensus on signal light at West High?
Council/ (All talking).
Atkins/ You instructed me to write a letter... asking for them to
share in the cost. The letter is drafted, it has not gone out
yet. The signal is about $50,000. The intersection design was-
Fosse/ .... another $30,000. The design is 99-100% complete on that
one. It is all laid out... but they are not part of the
plan... build those with our Traffic Engineering forces in
house.
Lehman/
Fosse/ We are missing out on some federal funds there... in all
likelihood they will be directed back to another federal
project ....
Thornberry/ If the school wants it, they can buy it.
Kubby/ Let us know when that letter is sent .... It would behoove us
to call people... encourage you to participate ....
Atkins/ That is a summary of our projects in this budget. Unless we
hear differently, he has got a busy year.
Lehman/ ...I would really like First Avenue Extended to be put back
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February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36
into ....
Vanderhoef/ I will second that.
Thornberry/ Design into the design with east west arterial and
Scott Blvd Extended?
Atkins/ Yeah ....
Kubby/ I don't want to put it back in the Seven Year Plan until we
talk about the whole thing .... Revised Comp Plan... go through
the Seven Year Plan ....
Vanderhoef/
Lehman/ As long as we re-visit it in a timely fashion.
Kubby/ Planning has the Comp Plan for this year ....
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ After the new Comp Plan is before us, we should re-
prioritize... For tonight, do we have anybody objecting to
what we are planning for 1996-977 Okay. Go for it.
Kubby/ I put something in front of you that I got anonymously ....
it is about transit... feedback about the memo about different
options.
Nov/ And you don't know who saw it and responded to it?
Kubby/ I do .... won't be part of the public record ....
Thornberry/ The only reason, Larry, that I am have way interested
in re-visiting First Avenue Extended ..... is to get some of
the heavy traffic away from Dodge and Governor sooner than the
completion of Scott Blvd.
Baker/
Norton/
Thornberry/ Take a look... With the expansion
Lehman/ We will re-visit that.
Thornberry/
(Can't hear).
Comp Plan said counts on Dodge weren't that horrible.
of NCS .... ACT ....
Thlsrepresentsonlyaraasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCItycouncllmeetingofFebrue~ 20,1996.
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February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37
Council Time 96-30 S2
1. Norton/ Did we ever respond to the second mediation letter (from
Annie Tucker) Steve? ....
Atkins/ It is a question of policy whether you are going to do that
or not. Linda ....
Norton/ When we come to situations where we need to do some
mediation, there is surely some contingency fund .... That I
would be happy to proceed that way.
Nov/
I have interest.. from mediators that want to be included in
the process... develop some sort of guidelines ....
references .... put you on the list. Somebody is working on
that kind of system ....
Baker/ I wanted to very briefly .... City Assessor .... Ernie and
Dee Norton and I met... ask some questions in general about
how the office works... My impressions ... still like to see
the city council re-evaluate that office ..... suggest salary
freeze if appropriate... Also suggest.. consider...hiring an
outside consultant to come in and do an evaluation of the
office... in coordination of County Assessor's Office... Ask
Steve .... to sit down with Dan and Jerry... analyze the
structure of the two offices .... idea being that you can
answer several questions... 1-Are there efficiencies to be had
with the City Assessor's Office. 2- Are there efficiencies to
be had by some sort of coordination of the city and county
that is not being done now. And 3- Are there efficiencies to
be had and what are the pros and cons of consolidating the two
offices. I would like to see Steve approach that question...
I feel very strongly that a salary freeze on the top three
salary positions is appropriate .... I think there are enough
questions... justify this small step at this time and a
thorough review... Takes four votes ....
Lehman/ I was at that meeting and I don't share Larry's
concerns ..... funding by a tax levy .... only one has a lower
cost ..... COD-... We are one of the very highest in the State
of Iowa... determined by comparing sales during the year with
the appraised values .... One of the most active in the State
of Iowa... Appears to me... office doing...exceptional job...
A wage freeze sends a really really bad message .... Can't see
us take city money or city time to do an independent
evaluation of the Assessor's office unless we have cooperation
of the school board and board of supervisors.
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996.
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February 20, 1996
Kubby/
Council Work Session
Page 38
Thornberry/ You can't have a study done on the efficiencies of that
operation being paid for by that operation.
Kubby/ We do it in the city all of the time.
Arkins/
council/ (All talking).
Lehman/ Even if the city residents could save some money .... the
Assessor would no longer be responsible to the city .... We
would have same w~ight... as Solon .... Board of Review process
would also be eliminated .... We would have no control ....
Atkins/
Council/
Baker/ One of the justification for the current set up is based
upon the COD figure... comes from lots of factors .... Three
basic factors. 1- The reason that some communities have a
higher COD is because of things extraneous to the control of
the City Assessor,s Office... It is the type of property .....
Then you have got the number of sales per year that help you
evaluate your equity .... The thing unique to this office...
Dan and Jerry.. they do extra work in the evaluation of the
sales that other offices do not do... They fine tune that
process. The process is not going to change... What you got
are two offices... with 13 people in them... doing the same
job .... using separate staffs and separate equipment ....
Logically you could go in and say there are cost
efficiencies... total tax package would probably be affected
P Sl~lvely for both sides ....
Lehman/ I just question is it worth the savings.
Baker/ I would like to see some outside analysis done of the
potential savings ....
Norton/ I would like to see a study done .... I would like to ask
somebody to take a look at it .... by combining the offices...
more efficiencies in the office...
Baker/ .... I am proposing that we do a little more extension study
of this question ..... Reason I propose that salary freeze...
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February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 39
comparable positions... I understand the position that perhaps
his assessment of himself-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-30 SIDE 2
Baker/ Might not be parallel with his office .... I think a salary
freeze if appropriate ....
Norton/
Baker/ I still insist that a salary freeze for at least those
administrative positions is entirely justified.
Kubby/ We want an office open for 40 hours a week.
Thornberry/ .... To sit there and do another cross word puzzle is
not the idea... If all you want is a 40 hour work week ....
Baker/ I am advocating... they are beyond a comparable salary range
right now.
Lehman/ ... get concurrence from either the school board or the
board of supervisors .... Why should we spend our money?
Kubby/ The City Assessor is not a city employee... employee of the
Conference Board .... Conference Board should decide to do the
study.
Norton/ They should share our concerns that a study is needed.
Baker/ .... We can do it independently.
Nov/ I would have to read the state law to be sure that we could do
it independently.
Thornberry/ Who does the City Assessor report to?
Norton/ The Conference Board .....
Baker/ He does perceive himself of being independent of the
government bodies ....
Thornberry/ We are paying how much? ....
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ He has his own levy ....
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February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40
Norton/
Baker/ .... Salary freeze for the administrative positions in the
City Assessor's Office.
Lehman/ I wouldn't ....
Nov/ Do I hear four yeses?
Kubby/ I would be willing to think about it.
Thornberry/ I would be willing to think about it also ....
Baker/ If we cannot get the Conference Board to agree to an outside
assessment of the offices .... efficiencies of
consolidation .... This council ought to be able to ask Steve
to look at this.
Thornberry/ Could we ask the... if they would be willing to do
it .....
Baker/
Kubby/ Could be there are four people willing to vote yes for the
Conference Board to do that but not four people to haue the
city do it.
Thornberry/
Baker/ Is there four ¥otes on the council to ask the Conference
Board?
Norton/ What is the outside consultant going to do? ....
Council/ (All talking).
Lehman/ With the
messing with
Baker/
Thornberry/ I am saying... look at
they would go along with a
consolidation to be made ....
Council/ (All talking).
kinds of numbers... I don't know why
it.
we are
the Conference Board to see if
look see at the office ....
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February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 41
Baker/ Real point is studying the office.
Nov/ ... The only way this office will save money is by having
fewer people working ....
Council/ (All talking).
Kubby/
Thornberry/ We consolidated transit and parking .....
Lehman/ This is totally different. One is county and one is city.
Thornberry/ We consolidated those two offices for a reason.
Baker/ .... all sorts of issues... You are going to have to get
somebody to study the operation of the two offices.
Kubby/
Norton/ ...study of the county and the city .....
Baker/
Norton/
Baker/ To present it to the Conference Board ....
Thornberry/
Baker/
Kubby/ ...could be a committee of people that
Thornberry/ ... I want to look at
savings .... This is another
these departments ....
Atkins/ .... looking at a management audit .....
measurements .... assuming they have this
information .... You can tell me to do it .... I
there is sufficient day to day supervision ....
Nov/ I think we have to look at the state law...
authority we have on this ....
Atkins/ If you want a management audit done, yes I
is not Steve ....
each department in this city...
department .... look at all of
performance
kind of
don't think
check out what
can do it.
Thisrepresents only sreasonably accuratetransmlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of Februa~ 20,1996.
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February 20,
Nov/
Thornberry/
Norton/
Thornberry/
1996 Council Work Session Page 42
...don't know why we wouldn't have some authority ....
Lehman/ He is doing a good job .....
Thornberry/ ....
3. Nov/ We have to at some point... Goal setting session with
facilitator... propose that all of us think about items that
we want to discuss... As much ahead of time planning .... You
will get a memo... Just asking people to start thinking ....
What things do we want to accomplish as a council ....
4. Kubby/ Water Festival?
Norton/ Water Festival is too far away ....
5. Nov/ Are you going to the Iowa League of cities meeting in Des
Moines, February 28th?... up to the individual ....
Kubby/ ...I would love us to go .... lobby ..... help lobby on the
issue ....
Nov/ Issue... state pay their commitments to local government .....
Going to get that to you ....
Council/ (Discuss attendance).
Kerr/ [Attendance: Baker-no
Kubby-yes
Nov-yes
Vanderhoef-yes
Lehman-yes
Thornberry-yes
Norton-yes]
I will firm up that reservation tomorrow ....
Council/ (Discussion regarding driving schedule).
Kerr/ I will take care of the registration tomorrow.
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February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 43
Nov/ .... Steve and Jeff Davidson and I met with Coralville
Mayor and City Manager... consolidated Transit system ....
agreeing to look at the numbers .... possibility of coordinated
system for FY98 .... There could be a lot of inter-meshing of
services in the mean time ..... All we have is an agreement to
look at it.
Kubby/ .... It would be really good to appoint a couple of people
on council to learn a lot about .... brainstorming about what
the possibilities are.
Nov/ Jeff is going to try to put together some kind of listing of
possibilities and then we will brainstorm .....
Council/ (All talking)
Nov/ Don't see them (Cambus) as a possibility .... Possible urban
paratransit system .....
council/
Kubby/ Mayor of Coralville and council of Coralville may have two
really different feelings ....
Council/ (Other conversations going on).
Nov/ Coralville would like to get a small subcommittee together
to discuss the 965 extension alignment .... I agreed to be on
the committee .... Dee Vanderhoef .... February 29, 1:30 .....
Lobby conference room.
8. Nov/ Does anybody else want to sign up for daffodils? ....
bouquet of daffodils for $5.00 ....
9. Kubby/ Water Festival ....
Nov/ I have already put in my two cents ....
council/ (Discuss
Vanderhoef).
schedule. Attending: Nov, Norton, Kubby,
Kubby/ I will take care of it .....
Adjourned: 9:30 PM
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996.
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