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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-02-20 TranscriptionFebruary 20, 1996 Council Work Session 6:30 PM council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Fosse, Yucuis. Tapes: 96-29, all; 96-30, all. FrinGe Area 96-29 S1 Nov/ Fringe area first and budget things. then we are going to get into CIP and Baker/ .... leave at 9:00. Nov/ We will do our best .... Franklin/ Did everybody get to look at all of the stuff that you had so far on the Fringe Agreement so I don't have to go back over all of that? That is the area we are talking about in terms of the growth area (refers to map) .... I want to start out with some of the basic premises that we have used through the years when we have talked about the Fringe Agreement with the county .... If you disagree with any of these premises, we probably should talk about that. First of all, the development within the growth boundaries of the city .... should be regulated by the city to insure compatibility with future urban development .... There is a reason why the city should be concerned about what happens in that future growth area when that land is still in the county and that we should have a very strong role in determining what kinds of development happen there and how they are designed .... Norton/ Makes me a little uncomfortable because when there is not an area of that sort .... then what do you do? Franklin/ Okay, let me get to that. #2- Is that when there is development that occurs within the two mile extraterritorial area, it has a direct impact on the maintenance, capacity expansion and traffic control of city streets .... regardless of where is happens .... Obviously we are talking about the two miles because that is all we have anything to say about. What is beyond is out of our jurisdiction. As a compromise, related to this second point, the city has accepted development targeted to certain areas of the fringe. The north corridor has... been the area that is targeted for development that both the city and county agreed was an appropriate area for residential development. Where we Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20.1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 2 have diverged is when we have looked at development outside of the north corridor in those other areas around Iowa City in which the county has advocated development and the city has not. #3- The character of Iowa City is affected by the development that happens within that two mile area. Whether Iowa City appears to be a compact well planned city or whether it appears to be a community which is just sprawling... out into the county... And that has to do with the character of the community and it also have to with all these other service issues, too. #4- Development is best served by municipalities and therefore should take place primarily within the corporate limits of the city and that has to do with the municipal services that are provided... concern... is use of septic systems .... within water shed that feeds into the Iowa River north of our water plant .... concern to Iowa City .... Contributes to the content of the water that we then have to treat and drink .... Has to do with the whole realm of municipal services that are provided .... Does anybody have problems or questions with any of those basic premises? Now remember this is from the perspective of Iowa City. It is not the perspective of the Johnson County Board of Supervisors .... Norton/ ..... we are county members, too. Their finances are a concern to me .... Franklin/ Yes, of course, we are within the county and that is why the issue of where should development take place is a critical county question as well as just an Iowa City question .... In that #4 point, it doesn't say that all development should happen within Iowa City. It says that development should primarily happen within the corporate bounds of the city so that those services can be provided. Counties are not set up to provide the services that city are. Lehman/ .... after the word city we probably should put, "but development will take place outside." Franklin/ That is why "primarily" is in there. That recognizes that some development is going to take place in the county .... focus it then... in north corridor .... part of the function of this Fringe Agreement and the tools that we have for Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 council Work Session Page 3 implementation .... is a 28E agreement with the county that agrees on where development should take place .... There is a Fringe Agreement right now. It doesn't expire until 2005 .... It is just not working very well. The other way in which the city can work toward these four basic premises is the right that we are given by the state to impose full urban design standards anywhere within that two mile area that we wish. We could impose those standards throughout the two mile area or we could, as a city, decide where they should be imposed based on whether development is appropriate or whether it is premature .... So the standards are used as a disincentive for that development to occur in the county. Okay. Let's go to the county's latest offer, proposal on the agreement. Kubby/ The last couple of letters that we received from the county ..... Duffy... Sehro.. There isn't any statement about .... how they view the agreement. That has been one of our biggest differences on how we implement the 28E Agreement .... We say it is a regulation .... they are making decision based on the document being a guideline ..... That is a crucial issue that I think we should bring up at the county so that we have agreement about how we are going to act about the written word. That has kind of been left out of the discussion .... Franklin/ Probably you won't have an answer on that until the particulars of the agreement-There is some consensus ..... Kubby/ ...If they are saying we are going to act the same way we are now no matter what the content is- Franklin/ It is difficult for me to speak for the board but I think they have viewed the language of the agreement in a different light than we have in the city .... One of the efforts here in this agreement is to clarify the language, make it less vague .... It started out much more circumspect and got vaguer as time went on .... Kubby/ At some point I would like us to have that discussion. Lehman/ Last time we met with some of the county, one of the things that came up was an Appeals Board. It is much much easier to say these are the rules .... If it is just a guideline, we just waste a lot of time. Kubby/ Do people agree with that?... a guideline, it needs to be more than that. Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetrenscrlption ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofFebrua~ 20.1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 4 Lehman/ Nov/ If there are exceptions, they, too, will have to fit into the guidelines. There are only certain things that will allow you to appeal. ubby/ Franklin/ What I thought I would do is go through the points of agreement, possible compromises and points of disagreements... Points of agreement. That annexation is the purview of the city. #2- Urban design standards will be imposed in the growth area .... $Fnat that means is that within the area that we will potentially annex, any subdivision that comes in would be required to put in, if it ~s done prior to annexation, city streets, concrete, curb and gutter, storm sewer, sewer lines, water lines capped .... you still need to put in a system that actually treats sewage and you still need to have a common well .... At the time it is annexed, you could slip right into the city system. Norton/ To some extent it would be a dual system. Franklin/ The reason for that is to discourage that development from occurring before it is part of Iowa city. Norton/ You have no interest in easements? Franklin/ No .... Nov/ We have also found that if you have easements, ten years down the road... there is somebody there who claims they have never heard about it .... Thornberry/ What so you do with the ones that are already in existence then? Franklin/ Subdivisions? Well, I just have to deal with them like we have dealt with the in the past. They come into the city, we then as time goes on do a capital project to put in the street, improve the sidewalks... up to council whether you do an assessment or not. Thornberry/ Wendram Bluff, for example. Franklin/ Wendram Bluff. I don't know exactly what the r.o.w.s are This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 20, 1996. WS02209 6 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 5 there .... In parts that would be very difficult to retrofit into city streets .... We have to make the decision at the point of annexation whether that makes sense .... given those kinds of factors of the future cost there may be for improvements. Thornberry/ Right now they don't have the plumbing .... streets aren't wide enough and probably shouldn't be .... Franklin/ Just to use that as an example, I would think that the only reason Wendram Bluff would come in would be because they wanted to because their wells were bad .... water lines... probably be assessed and the streets would be left as is. You couldn't bring them up to city standards .... The difficulty then is how do you provide the other services... Nov/ Franklin/ Walnut Ridge was originally platted as a private street .... then it was changed to public streets .... Kubby/ ...design in on the front end .... Franklin/ Taft Speedway is a road that is from the county. Foster Road also .... that will be paid for by development of abutting properties and the general tax payers. Norton/ Right now .... the areas within our growth area...are within our drainage .... Some are not? .... Franklin/ We have... Highlander lift station ..... Norton/ In some sense our growth area need not be contiguous with our drainage setup? Franklin/ Oh, no. You can make the choice to go beyond that and to put in lift stations... build a bigger plant some day .... Norton/ In the areas of concern in the west and the north where we have no growth area but we have a two mile but we don't have growth reason .... Thornberry/ That 965 is going to be a growth area. Norton/ If you put a growth area in there even if we run a arbitrary line, you then at least can impose those standards within that area and have a little bit more leverage. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Ciw council meeting of Februa~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 6 Kubby/ I think it is more appropriate to be Coralville, though .... Norton/ I am talking on the north as well. Franklin/ You would want to make those decisions about the growth policy independent of these decisions about imposing standards because you don't want to just make it in your growth area so you can impose standards because you can impose standards if you wish to without being in the growth area. Norton/ Kubby/ You could also say city standards half mile around .... Norton/ That would be another alternative. Franklin/ What I was pointing out here was points of agreements that we have right now. A point of agreement that we have right now ..... is that within our adopted growth area that city standards would be imposed for any subdivisions there. In this letter of January 18, the county said that the board would agree to require city standards in the identified growth area in Area B. Nov/ However, that is only Area B. Franklin/ I am sort of assuming that in Area C they would similarly agree to that. We will have to go back and ask that .... Principle of standards with in the growth area was one that they were accepting in this. Is everybody okay with that? Okay. Possible compromise. Fringe Area A .... north corridor all the way over to Hwy 1 and east of Hwy 1. The new part of this in this amended agreement .... was to commit development that is rezoning to RS-3 essentially in the north corridor, all the way east to east of Hwy 1. So the old Area 4 ..... would be open for development. The compromise that is being suggested here is that any rezonings to RS-3 would be consistent with the Fringe Policy. If a developer would do cluster development, the property could be rezoned to RS. RS-3 is one dwelling unit to three acres. RS is one dwelling per one acre. RS is a higher density. You get a higher density if you do cluster development. It is an incentive to do cluster development as opposed to a requirement. The point that would need to be clarified here is what is meant by cluster development because the county has a cluster development Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City councilmeeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 7 provision in their subdivision ordinance. Norton/ Franklin/ However, when the the commissions, that narrowly .... original proposal was put together by cluster concept was defined much more Norton/ Franklin/ You have it in a packet of stuff from November 28. You have to really dig through because this has a couple of versions. What was in the proposal .... page 2, proposal 11-27- 95, Fringe Area A. It is crossed out because that was the county's response .... This was in the original proposal with a zoning density of RS-3. Norton/ I thought you meant that there was a separate document that had cluster requirements other than the county's and I don't see that. Franklin/ I am saying that we should have such a beast. If this agreement is going to provide for cluster development with an incentive or as a requirement, that we need to define and clearly understand, both city and county, what cluster development means .... Norton/ Would you reiterate once more .... precisely the virtues to the city of the cluster requirement other than the lower density ..... Franklin/ I think the main thing has to do with the character of the area. The character of the city ..... What you have as a response from the county brings that within the entire two mile ..... To see the advantage to the city .... you have to look of it in the context of focusing on this north area and that in this north area... that development that takes place- First of all we are conceding that development takes place there and that it should be in this large of an area. Then we are saying, as it takes place, it should be in a cluster fashion. The City of Iowa City has expressed concerned already through policy and ordinance for the landscape, the topography and environment. This cluster concept carries that out .... also defines the character of Iowa City .... you need to understand for yourselves what it means to you and why .... Kubby/ Also helps focus traffic into certain areas. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 20, 1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 8 Franklin/ Norton/ Why do we care?... That is not in our growth area. Kubby/ That doesn't mean that that is not going to happen ..... Norton/ .... seems to me if they make cul de sacs and make it hard for themselves to get the snow out .... Don't see that it would bare precisely on the city's interests .... Franklin/ In terms of designs of subdivisions, too, when you get to things like fire protection and difficulty of getting in and out of subdivisions, the city, by signing those plats, has some role in how safe to unsafe those subdivisions are. Lehman/ Do we have any responsibility whatsoever? Franklin/ I couldn't answer what the liability is. Kubby/ Franklin/ So what is the liability, Linda? Woito/ For what? Thornberry/ Are you telling me then that in the Fringe Area around Iowa City, I couldn't build a house and have three acres? Kubby/ It matters what we decide- Norton/ In some places you could .... Thornberry/ Not everywhere? .... Franklin/ Area B ..... you would have to have 40 acres. Thornberry/ Going from 40 down to 17 Nov/ It is the county zoning laws. They have their own zoning laws. Thornberry/ Well, I live in the city and have 3 acres and if I lived in the county I could only have 17 Franklin/ No, we are talking about minimums and maximums here. With RS development in the county, you have to have at least 1 acre. With an RS-3, you have to have at least 3 acres if you are just doing one house .... cluster development, you can take This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 20, 1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 9 that overall density and you can move it around .... open space but your housing is on a smaller portion of the land. Kubby/ Big reason, especially in the north corridor that that cluster development is important to me is that instead of having 40 different wells, you can have one community well .... group septic tank... prevents pollution in Iowa River .... Thornberry/ The septic system doesn't run into the river, Karen. Kubby/ Sooner or later it does. In the north corridor there is much higher chance of septic systems running into the river much more quickly .... Area A .... topography and the way that water flows. Thornberry/ I don't agree .... I don't know if I agree with forcing people to cluster .... Franklin/ .... The proposal is to provide clustering, this compromise proposal .... county has come back with ..... incentive.. higher density ..... an incentive for That is what the is that you get a Thornberry/ You may have more than 17 Franklin/ Depending on how development. you ultimately define cluster Kubby/ Lehman/ The county, I think, agrees to this. Norton/ .... In this one now we come down to the possibility of an incentive to cluster .... Kubby/ Don't see we've come down. The county has suggested- Lehman/ Franklin/ What they mean by cluster and what you mean by cluster may be two different things .... If you can agree in principle .... that Area A, RS-3 .... If somebody comes in and wants RS zoning, we say that is inconsistent with the Fringe Agreement unless you are going to cluster .... Then we can pass it on with a recommendation to cluster. What I am saying is if you get that far, the next step would be for us to go back to the county and say okay, let's define what cluster is so we Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuretetranscrlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of Februa~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 10 don't get hung up on that one .... This groups needs to decide if you can go along with what the county has proposed in Fringe Area A which is cluster with an incentive, not as a requirement .... Norton/ .... make same rules west and east of the road. Franklin/ The original proposal has RS-3 the entire area and a requirement for cluster. The county came back and said RS-3 on east side of Hwy 1 and RS on the west side of Hwy 1 and you can cluster if you want to. Norton/ More important... to us .... to have RS-3, is it not? Franklin/ How do all of you feel about that? Is density the greater issue for the city or is it the design of the development? Let's hit the density first. Norton/ Density is the one that loads us with streets... all the rest of the infrastructure .... Thornberry/ ...How many houses does it take to make a cluster? Franklin/ I didn't give you an answer. It depends on what land you are working with .... RS-3 density on 40 acre tract, you could get 13 homes. Now on that 40 acre tract...13 homes...where you put them on the property that determines whether it is clustered or not, not the how many. If you have an RS density, you could have 40 homes on that 40 acre tract and again, you could still cluster it but you still would have 40 homes. Density is critical to the number of dwelling units you are going to have on a given piece of property and then the cluster has to do with the design. You got to start with the density .... complicated when you start trading these things off. Norton/ .... Nov/ If you are dealing with something like 40 acres, you are dealing with more than a single cluster of 40 houses .... Thornberry/ ...have quite a few houses in one area .... open space .... Lehman/ With the county's proposal, they are saying west of Hwy 1, it would be RS-3 with RS available only if they cluster. Is that correct? Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 11 Franklin/ That is right... for the entire Fringe Area A ..... Lehman/ The only way they could get RS is if it is clustered? Franklin/ That is right ..... Dee .... insist on RS-3 regardless... Kubby/ Baker/ ..... want to keep it low to encourage development inside the city? .... Franklin/ Well- Because originally on focusing development in the north corridor, the idea was to have it focused in a narrowly defined area and then you could have it at that higher density of RS but it would only occur in that area. What has happened... smattering of development all the way around at RS. So I don't know. If you can keep it focused and targeted, and agree that it is not just going to open up in the entire two mile area, then I think you could probably go to a higher density .... You focus it where you can do your capital projects. We know we are going to have to improve Dubuque Street .... Prairie du Chien and signalization at Dodge. We are going to have to improve Dodge Street .... Since that is the case, let's have the development... on those corridors, not off of Rohret Road, American Legion and very place else and allow the higher density to accommodate that development that wants to happen out there in the woods. Baker/ In general, I don't have a problem with higher density as long as we have the control over (can't hear). A very tight control .... in exchange for a higher density .... The lower density, the less I am inclined to regulate, in general .... Lehman/ I have not problem with the county's proposal for Fringe Area A. I can live with that. Franklin/ In terms of incentive thing for cluster, I am not exactly sure that RS-3 is an incentive .... If the market if for more spread out development, you may not get anybody biting for cluster development .... I don't know that. Nov/ We could just say RS-3 and eliminate the word, "clustering." Norton/ .... nature of land leads to a certain amount of that. Kubby/ .... One of the things that we talked about in December was that having less density in Area B .... prime ag ground. Trade Thisrepresents only sreasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 12 off... allowing more density in Area A .... Have to protect the sensitive areas via clustering. I am saying that we mandate clustering .... willing to say minimum of one acre in whole area for tradeoff .... Nov/ The county really wants RS... Kubby/ I am suggesting RS with mandating clustering Norton/ You are talking about Area A only .... Franklin/ We have always... RS for A with clustering and see what happens in the other areas .... RS with cluster required. Thornberry/ I wouldn't do that .... I like the way it is .... Norton/ RS-3 with an incentive to go RS-1 if they cluster .... split the difference .... Nov/ I think the city is going to say require and the county is going to say incentive. Franklin/ Thornberry/ I don't think we need to mandate .... Norton/ ...question is is the clustering mandated or encouraged? Thornberry/ I really hate government interference with development. Council/ (All talking), Thornberry/ .... with provision that if a developer chose to cluster then the developer would do so at the RS .... that makes sense. Norton/ How many people would be in favor with #2 as written? .... Baker/ RS with mandated clustering. Norton/ Let's get straight with what we are talking about here. Franklin/ We got two proposals here... county's that says RS-3 with an incentive of RS for clustering. Ernie and Dean have said that is what they favor. Larry has suggested RS zoning with a requirement for clustering and Larry and Karen are in that .... Three of you that have not spoken. Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowaCitycouncilmeetingofFebruary 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 13 Vanderhoef/ I like #2 as it is written. Nov/ The way they have worded this... really an RS-2. Franklin/ ...we will have to figure that out ..... just need to clarify .... Norton/ Let's just hold that for a minute. I don't want to vote. Can't you go on? I am contemplating the virtues. Franklin/ That is up there then for A. Norton/ I was going to be ponderous .... Franklin/ Okay. B and C I think you can deal with essentially the same way. Although the county does not say anything about requiring city standards in the growth area for .... C but let's assume that they are okay with that. So basically B and C... would be dealt with the same way... their proposal is that- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-29 SIDE 2 Franklin/ What they proposed in A, the RS-3 with the RS incentive for clustering would be what happens in the non-growth area in both B and C. Now this is a gross divergence from the Commission's original proposal. What it basically says is that growth is not targeted in this two mile area. It can happen anywhere within this two mile area but within the city's growth boundaries will require city standards. That is basically the only distinction that is made then. Kubby/ And that is going to create the need for arterials in every area around Iowa City instead of focusing it on one area .... I support having them be less dense outside the growth boundary in B and C and focusing development for RS in the north ..... that allows more people. Franklin/ In terms of Area B that makes a lot of sense in terms of water table and corn suitability rating. Our growth area encroaches into that area where there is a higher corn suitability rating and there is a high water table and the thing that saves it .... those developments will be on municipal services. Septic systems don't work well with a high water table° Makes a lot of sense for B particularly that that not be an area of extensive growth. This represents only a reaaonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 20, 1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 14 Norton/ .... What ever happened to good old A-l? ..... That was the notion in B outside of growth .... Franklin/ So it doesn't take all development away. It is basically for farmsteads and one other split .... Norton/ Kubby/ The thing to remember here is the state gives us power to impose full city standards the full two miles .... We can make happen what I believe is best for the city because we have the leverage. Thornberry/ Just because you have the power doesn't mean you have to use it. Franklin/ Iowa City is the biggest part of the county. Baker/ ...do the right thing .... Kubby/ Having RS-3 development on every side of the city is not a good vision. Thornberry/ It doesn't mean you have to use it .... Norton/ Baker/ .... the interests of the city is served by control around the city .... Kubby/ .... deciding for ourselves what we think is the best plan and then going after that. Thornberry/ I don't know everything there is to know about this land use and what the needs are going to be 50 years down the road .... Nov/ The most important part about the new agreement is that it is reviewed once every three years .... Norton/ At least some of is concerned about whole general notion of sprawl... conceive what we want to drive through .... It seems to make sense to try to keep that ..... preserve agricultural lane. Franklin/ It is. Thisrepresents onlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City councilmeeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 15 Thornberry/ Talk to me, Naomi. Nov/ This is something that we have to say we all agree on. What I am hearing is a spilt among council .... We haven't a serious agreement .... I want to hear a basic consensus. Council/ (All talking). Norton/ We are down to two options on Area A and we got two options- C, what does that have? The same concerns? Franklin/ B and C I think you can treat the same. Nov/ Except if the county wants RS-3 and I am hearing people here say A-1 rather than RS-3. Vanderhoef/ The growth is going to definitely bring traffic in .... When I look at that traffic, do I want it clustered? Kubby/ ...do you want it happening in a certain part of town? .... Thornberry/ Lehman/ Linda .... What role do property owner's rights have in our discussion? Woito/ I hope they have a lot of rights. The Constitution still exists .... Lehman/ We are talking some very valid issues .... How far can the city go without stepping on property owner's rights? Woito/ You can go to the point where you have downzoned the property to the point where there is no reasonable use of the property left. I don't think you are looking at downzoning to the point where you have no reasonable use of the property left. Lehman/ So you are comfortable with what we are talking about? Woito/ Yes, I am .... Kubby/ We do want to encourage growth happening within Iowa City in the growth areas. Lehman/ They may not be a legitimate reason for doing what we are doing in the Fringe Area. Thisrepresents onlyareasonablyaccuratetrenscrlpfion oftheloweCIty council meeting of Februe~ 20.1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 16 Woito/ The reason why you want to do that is because it is based on health, safety, welfare, infrastructure, finances and all those many land uses. It is not just we don't want any money going outside the city. Baker/ Point I was making is whatever develops outside the city... consequences inside the city .... Thornberry/ Franklin/ The original proposal ..... it does not contemplate downzoning anybody's property. It gives rights to anybody who has current zoning. So that whole issue of downzoning is not a feature of any of these versions to the agreement. Kubby/ In the proposal of 11-27-95, Area C, that is where some of the dedication of easements is .... Franklin/ I am assuming that in Area C they would treat it as in Area B. That is in the growth area, city standards would be required. If you are to go back and say no, we do not agree. That is B and in C policy should be the same as in Area A, that is development all the way around, their response may be then we are not going to require city standards within the growth area. Remember, you approve plats and a plat is not final until the city has signed it as well as the county. You have that authority regardless. To impose those standards within the growth area. If you agree in the Fringe Agreement not to impose those standards, then you have given up that right. Norton/ I still think it would be desirable... to define some growth area in A that is not now there. Baker/ Nov/ The county's original proposal was industrial and commercial in Area C beyond the city limits. That is something we did not want .... Norton/ .... we are talking RS-3 .... We have two options there: RS-3 with an incentive for RS-1 clustering and RS all the way with clustering mandatory .... The other question is what do you do with those outside areas of B and C...? Kubby/ Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Cl~ council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, Council/ (All Lehman/ Are B Franklin/ And Lehman/ Is it Franklin/ Yes. 1996 Council Work Session talking). and C basically along watershed lines? boundaries. the current corporate basically watershed? Page 17 Lehman/ (Refers to map). Kubby/ ..... If we change out growth areas then that affects what rules are played in what areas. Nov/ Lift stations create more expense. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/ Wherever the growth area is outlined, that is where we can serve with gravity sewer. Vanderhoef/ And can we go further south with gravity? Franklin/ No. You can go as far as the growth area boundary line and that is far as you can go with. Then you have to start pumping it up hill to get it to the plant because it is so flat. Council/ (All talking). Franklin/ When you make decisions about your growth area, you shouldn't make decisions about your growth are based on what you want to do with your Fringe Policy ..... Norton/ Let's decide what we are going to do here. Thornberry/ How much is a pump station and who pays for it? Lehman/ Depends on what size. Thornberry/ How many units does it take to make it viable to put in a pump station? Arkins/ Napoleon Park is about $5 million ..... Thornberry/ How many units? ..... Thisrepresents only 8reasonablyaccuratetranscrlpfion ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18 Atkins/ The developer makes that decision at the time .... Thornberry/ The developer would have to pay for that? Atkins/ I couldn't imagine passing that cost onto the public .... Thornberry/ The city wouldn't put it in just to get growth there? Atkins/ ...you could make that decision .... Franklin/ Baker/ (Can't hear). Given the two options .... as far as planning consequences and impact upon the city, is there one weighted more than the other .... positive impact on the city? Franklin/ I am thinking. As Dee said, it depends on what happens in the other areas. If you stand fast on focusing development in one part of the Fringe Area it seems to me the logic and ability to plan for capital projects is more reasonable with the RS and the whatever requirements you want to have with that. Baker/ Franklin/ If you them open up the other areas, you start to lose some of the logic ..... Kubb¥/ Norton/ In Area A, east of Hwy 1, RS-3 with RS if you go clustering .... West of Hwy 1, RS-1 with mandatory clustering. Arkins/ [ON BOARD: A RS-3 w/ RS incentive to cluster RS -reg cluster East of Hwy 1 - RS-3 w/ RS option West of Hwy 1 - mandatory cluster] Norton/ Half of it is going one way and half the other .... Thornberry/ What is the rationale for the difference? Norton/ Trying to keep some RS-3 ground as a compromise between density and clustering. The overall numbers bother me ..... Thisrepresents onlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19 (refers to map) .... the total number of dwelling units that would be created in that area. Nov/ ....I don't think it would change very much. If whole Fringe Area A is zoned RS-3 and you may have an occasional person coming in with an RS request, you tell them... only if you have a cluster ..... I don't know if the bottom line is going to change if we propose that. Kubby/ I disagree... North corridor .... kind of development... much more dense than that. Franklin/ It varies .... Kubby/ Thornberry/ Kubby/ The issue of mandating clustering an issue no matter what the density is .... I might still want to say I think clustering is a good idea for that area. Thornberry/ Norton/ Franklin/ Remember with the subdivision, you have the most authority. That is it not like with the zoning where you are advising the county on zoning. When a plat comes before you, if there is language within the Fringe Agreement that you are going to encourage clustering and I think what that means and how encouraging you are going to be will need to be in there .... That when it comes to the city, the plat has to be approved by the council .... Baker/ Lehman/ Baker/ As far as whether you require or encourage... I am not sure the RS by itself is enough of an incentive to make it happen. Nov/ That is what the county proposed. Lehman/ How do you compare Fringe Area A with the Area C outside the growth area? Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20 Franklin/ In terms of what? What we desire there? I come back to the notion of this whole agreement is a compromise on development happening within the two mile area. The compromise Was that development would be encouraged north of town as opposed to east, with, west. In terms of making any distinctions based on the land or the desirability of the area for development, in time the west area may be just as desirable as the north ..... Especially with Weber School there. Lehman/ ...sewage system .... Area A is definitely the same watershed that we draw our drinking water. Area C outside the growth area is in the watershed .... Franklin/ I think A was chosen as a growth area was because it was there... happening. In the 70's... idea was to focus development where it was happening which was in the north corridor .... That was where people wanted to be... that it be in that particular area. It is the fact that Iowa City, North Liberty, Cedar Rapids. Nov/ They work in Cedar Rapids and they want to live in Johnson County. Franklin/ The west may become as attractive in that respect with the access that is there from 218 .... Kubby/ .... I am not willing to put the tax payer having to do CIP projects of equal necessity on all areas .... That doesn't seem responsible to me. Lehman/ We review this every three years .... flexible sort of agreement. Baker/ .... Because we can review it in three years, it makes me more inclined to support the RS in that area .... Nov/ It is very difficult to downzone .... Much easier to go the other direction. Kubby/ ...are people thinking about saying no to RS-3 outside of growth area in B and C? Lehman/ I would do that for three years. Norton/ I am. This represents only a reosonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 20, 1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21 Nov/ That one is relatively easy. Norton/ I still like RS-3 with clustering encouraged and RS-1 permitted .... Lehman/ With the definition of clustering. Franklin/ Okay. So I think I hear four for the RS-3 with RS incentive for clustering. Norton/ For Area A. Kubby/ You guys are being less dense than I am .... of zoning. That is a turn around. Thornberry/ Franklin/ What I have then in Area A the county proposal of RS-3 with RS if you cluster. And B and C city standards required within the growth areas and outside the growth areas is the original proposal from the commissions. Kubby/ And what is that called? Lehman/ This Appeal Boards thing I think we need to include. Franklin/ I think it was A-1 ..... Kubby/ So currently, what is that zoning classification? Franklin/ A-1. Anything that is currently RS under this agreement could still develop .... Norton/ Franklin/ Kubby/ We still need to come up with a definition of clustering. Lehman/ Right. Nov/ Can we come up with that definition at another time? Franklin/ Yes, I think we should. Kubby/ We mean the houses are fairly close together and you have got lots of open space. I mean in terms This represents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Februaty 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 22 Franklin/ I can work on that and bring something back to you. Thornberry/ Define fairly close in the county. Nov/ ...no more than 1 1/4 acres per dwelling unit .... That is somewhat tight .... depends on how you define clusters. Franklin/ I will put something together with some options and then you can pick ..... council/ (All talking). Franklin/ The last point then is the Appeals Board. When Naomi and Ernie met with Don and Steve, there seem to be some consensus among those four .... what was discussed at that time was the necessity for criteria for evaluation and that is not something that is in any of this yet .... they agreed that there needed to be some criteria for that evaluation. That these would be special circumstances. It wouldn't be just anytime ..... Council/ (All talking). Nov/ Karin, when we talked about this, we were not talking about a citizens group similar to our Board of Appeals. We were talking about a committee composed of two council members and two board of supervisor members .... Kubby/ I don't think that that is a good idea because the reason we don't have elected people on the Board of Adjustment is because of the recourses you just accorded doesn't go back to any body if people are dissatisfied ..... Nov/ They were talking about a situation where the city and the county do not agree on a subdivision plat and therefore we should get together and we should decide whether or not this subdivision deserves a compromise and therefore it does not fit exactly into the standards that are in the Fringe Area. Franklin/ I think... just about zoning. Appeals Board would have the authority to review "special exceptions" to the agreed upon zoning. I think it had to do when there was a disparity on zoning. Kubby/ Gives us more input .... Franklin/ Indicates a move on the Board to look at the Fringe Thisrepresents only aressonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Februa~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23 Agreement a little bit more along the lines of law rather than guidelines .... Nov/ We did say that... this is a contract. We intend to treat it that way. Thornberry/ What if it is 2-2? Nov/ ...county was very interested in having some way for somebody to appeal and that is as far as we went. Lehman/ Have representative for county zoning and city zoning .... Instead of councilors ..... Nov/ .... joint jurisdiction kind of thing rather than a separate citizens board of appeal. Thornberry/ .... should have some board to go to. Franklin/ If it is going to be that sort of thing where you are appealing your decision of governmental jurisdiction, then it is going to come under different law... it would have to be an appointed group. What I think the intention was here is that if a zoning case came before the county and was to the city for review... at a staff level .... at loggerheads. And that then this group would come together and talk about whether there was some reason for not following the agreement in this particular case and the criteria that would have to be developed are what would be used to make that judgement .... Kubby/ ..... to say if we disagree to get together and talk ..... Thornberry/ It would go right to this loggerhead group, right? Norton/ Concerned .... Franklin/ Need to have some criteria to use for your judgement so that it is not just arbitrary. Have you agreed that it should or shouldn't be people who are members of the board and council? That is what is proposed is two members of the board and two members of the council. Thornberry/ I have no problem with that. Lehman/ I do. I would really like people for the P/Z Commissions .... They are closer to it. Thisrepr~ents only areasonablysccurate transcription oftbelows City council meeting of Fe§rua~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24 Council/ (All talking). Nov/ Use some of each. Lehman/ Problem I have with council folks exclusively is... I really don't understand all the issues... P/Z... they have some expertise .... If you want a council person on it, fine... I think somebody from P/Z .... should be on it because they would be more familiar .... Norton/ May be precedence somewhere. Nov/ They said two county representatives and two city representatives. It didn't say they have to be elected .... Kubby/ So in A we said RS-3 everywhere with RS with incentive to cluster with the definition of cluster .... B and C we said in growth areas they have to do city standards and outside growth area it is A-1 and anything that is currently zoned RS will stay that way .... Lehman/ And we will review it in three years. Kubby/ And we talked about the appeals idea. That we like the concept. Atkins/ So I understand it, you have taken a position now. Do we send this to the county in the form of correspondence and they will respond? Nov/ We are responding to theirs. Atkins/ Is this your policy position and further counter proposals from the county are-? Thornberry/ Franklin/ You want us to work on the definition of cluster and the appeals before you go back to the county? Nov/ I sort of think we should tell them we have agreed on these points and there will be written definitions of clusters and ...written definitions for appeals. Franklin/ Okay. Kubby/ Can we send them a new copy of the Fringe Area Agreement Thisrepresents only areesonablyaccuratetranscrtptton ofthelowa City council meeting of Februaw 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 with what we like... ? Franklin/ Council/ Nov/ This council Work Session Page 25 have decided so they can see what it would look Yeah .... (All talking). is a break .... [BREAK 8:15 PM] CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-30 SIDE 1 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of ~e Iowa City council meeting of February 20, 1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26 CIP 96-30 S1 Atkins/ Being handed out to you now is a list of projects... This is Rick's work for the upcoming construction season .... A second list which affects our capital project planning .... (Handouts: 1996 Construction and Major Calendar Year '97 Project For Construction/Will Begin The Design Of The Following in 1996) These are fully in compliance with the priorities that council .... on the Seven Year Plan .... Our project planning has changed over the last couple of years... because the citizen input has gone up dramatically on the front end .... adds a lot of time to the process .... better job... does add time constraints. Secondly, it seems like we spend more time in Linda's office because of land acquisition .... goes fairly well... does take a lot of time .... We have tried to build that into the schedule. Norton/ .... people more litigious or something? Fosse/ One of the aspects that makes it worse is it has been a number of years since we have been getting federal aid projects ..... certain series of hoops to jump through for property acquisition .... Atkins/ Bottom line is .... it is more like two years .... move through the list fairly quickly. The 1996 Construction means that we are going to build these projects this construction season. We will begin working on... all of those other projects for construction in 1997 .... Construction season and your budget years are not the same. There is the overlap .... Rick .... walk through these. This is substantially in compliance with the council priorities .... Thornberry/ These are all financed under this budget? Atkins/ Everything is budgeted, ready to go. Fosse/ I do have a specific question for you on the Burlington/Gilbert Intersection project .... final design... possibility of completely closing the intersection of traffic during construction rather than phasing it .... that has a potential of saving us the duration of the project and saving us in money .... option of putting in brick cross walks .... If you don't mind, we will include that as an option in the bidding process and go fishing for what kind of savings and time and money we can get. Norton/ Thisrepresents only ereasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingofFebruaw 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27 Fosse/ That is something we have to work out whether to phase it or not .... Jeff is going to go around to businesses tomorrow and talk to them about their feelings on it .... detour around the area. Lehman/ What is your opinion...brick as opposed to colored (can't hear)? Fosse/ Brick has better skid resistance .... Lehman/ What kind of durability as far as driving on it? Fosse/ We have read a lot of studies from other communities. There seems to be good data... properly constructed- Lehman/ (Can't hear). Nov/ I am not happy with it. We have buses and trucks driving along Washington Street and you can see the wheel line where the brick has gone concave. Burlington will have even more of that kind of traffic and I question whether or not brick is going to hold up .... because it is not holding up on Washington Street. Fosse/ A little different base underneath it. The way we are proceeding right now is brick will be an alternate so that if we find the cost to be excessive or if you just plain decide you don't like it we are not bound to that. We can get this on the informal agenda the night before the p.h. so we can talk details on it. Nov/ What about using concrete pavers? .... Fosse/ ...the problem we found on them is they fade out over time and you don't get the long term visual benefit ..... Durability seems to be there for the concrete. Council/ (All talking). Thornberry/ Pretty expensive little nicety .... Arkins/ If you have some very very serious reservations about any element of the project, we need to know .... Norton/ Southside Plan also wanted interesting crosswalks. Fosse/ George/Oakcrest .o. that is a repair that we need to do .... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Februa~ 20o1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28 Kubby/ Does that cause sewage backup? Fosse/ It is a storm sewer and there is a nearby apartment building that is alleging problems associated with that .... needs to be fixed and so we are going to do it. Melrose West Paving Improvements. One of those that takes even more lead time than we expected .... pushing to meet the schedule on that one .... First Avenue Muscatine to D Street. Those are both federal aid projects. Property acquisition process that is slowing us down there. Soccer Site Access Road. We are not sure where that is going. Norton/ Where is that, literally? Fosse/ It will go from that intersection (refers to map) .... ADA Curb Ramp. Continue on our program with that .... Tuesday night we will be setting p.h. Abbey Lane Storm Sewer. We talked about that. Kiwanis Park Storm Sewer. Lehman/ ADA curb cuts, are they all planned? Fosse/ We know where this years years program is based on certain interests .... program is going to go recommendations that we and each get from Lehman/ Have we gotten a Building because they building. request from the old Press Citizen can't get handicap access to that Council/ (Other conversations going on). Fosse/ Let me follow up on that. Nov/ I don't understand that. Atkins/ This is the intersection (refers to map). The building is the responsibility of the developer ..... Lehman/ And that is the responsibility of the property owner? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29 Atkins/ Yeah .... Press Citizen. Norton/ Which one are we on? Fosse/ ADA curb ramps .... We are putting some in adjacent to parking areas ..... Kiwanis Park Storm Sewer. That is moving ahead. Leachate Force Main .... got a good start on the lift station. Landfill Cell... 50% complete... continue it this year. Highlander Lift Station .... awarded last council meeting. Arkins/ Fosse/ The Landfill and Cell and Cap those are already under construction now .... South Gilbert Storm Sewer. That one is response to flood of '93 .... bumped a couple of times. Iowa River Trail .... That is the one that the Engineering Division got the low bid on .... Start construction soon. Madison Street Water Main and Paving. That one is already under construction. Shamrock Peterson Storm Sewer... another neighborhood meeting on that one pretty quick .... late summer construction. Park Road Storm Sewer... maintenance work. Norton/ You skipped the Longfellow. That was the one and found a bunch of holes. What are they going to do? Fosse/ Made some real progress on that lately... had a difference of professional opinion... two different firms... One firm is so confident that they were right that you can seal those sewers that they volunteered to seal a whole block for nothing. They came to town Monday and Tuesday last week, they did them .... they got it done .... We are going to check it out and make sure we don't have any damages in there... Call the original firm back in town and say finish up. We may have some more short liners ... we need to put in. Looks like we are going to get that done. Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlpfion ofthelowa Clty councllmeetfngofFebruary 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30 Norton/ Fosse/ Zimansky Sanitary Sewer. Small project... private services... put in an extension .... Court Street right after Fairview... They are taking care a lot of the coordination work .... after '93 cave ins... putting in these little extensions of public sewer .... We have been springing for those as long as they build them to public standards... Property owners take care of coordination as far as design .... permitting .... contribution on their part .... Whole series of water related projects there .... Norton/ Still drilling at night. Atkins/ Those are private contractors, folks... Nov/ And the contract says X dollars .... Kubby/ Norton/ Fosse/ Jumping down to some of the non-construction related things. We are updating our flood plain maps... that is underway .... Norton/ You jumped right over that $75 million number. Fosse/ Too many zeros. Atkins/ .... It is $758,000. Fosse/ Take two extra zeros off. Council/ (All talking). Lehman/ South Corridor Sewer at $17 million. Is that the one that we got the $12 million bid on? Fosse/ Right. Norton/ How did Atkins/ ...pump Norton/ Sandusky, it get back up to $17-? station, inspection .... is that in there too? Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Februa~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31 Atkins/ Sandusky I do not think is in there .... storm sewers are a part of that. Norton/ Plum Street is in there and Sandusky is not. Fosse/ The Sandusky and Plum Street relief sanitary sewers are in there. There is a Sandusky Storm Sewer Project which is another animal. The sanitaries are in there .... I think that $17- is an old number. We will have to check on that. Norton/ It included those two things, didn't it? Fosse/ Yes they did. Norton/ That is gravy in there .... should be more like $12- Atkins/ The contracted amount for the park was like $12.9- You add the inspection on top of that .... I will correct that number. Fosse/ Moving onto the non-construction items. Got the Flood Plain Map Revisions underway. Landfill Ground Water... associated with that leachate control project... Also we will need to start doing gas monitoring out there for production of methane .... Right now we are doing a lot of research in GIS. Not spending much money on it right now .... Work on the Design Standards. Norton/ Did anybody go look at those good wells that a young man mentioned to us?... Atkins/ You will be getting a report. Fosse/ The next page... read through it... questions .... (Major Calendar Year '97 Projects For Construction). Atkins/ I want to flag a couple for you .... ACT/Hw¥ 1 Intersection Improvements .... Dodge Street Improvements-Governor to Dubuque. I am assuming we will try to do that together .... political pitfalls. We are beginning to put the work together on that. Vanderhoef/ ACT/Hwy 1, is that where you have got the lights? Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofFebrua~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32 Atkins/ Intersection redesign and the installation of a traffic signal substantially because of the ACT traffic. Vanderhoef/ Does that include paving the rest of Old Dubuque Road? Fosse/ No (refers to map). This is the location for that east west arterial where that alignment is going to come in on Hwy 1 at that location. That is a key feature of that project. council/ (all talking). Fosse/ (Refers to map). It is going to come across Scott Blvd and eventually go into Hwy 1 and where we do this intersection project... put the traffic signal in is going to determine the location of that intersection that is ultimately going to serve that east west arterial .... we have been working on that alignment. Norton/ Does ACT have their campus laid out well enough to know? Nov/ Yes .... Council/ (All talking). Lehman/ (Can't hear). Fosse/ (Can't hear). Atkins/ We can't hear. Fosse/ It does in fact impact the Larson and Gatens .... Atkins/ We will send out-We have a map drawn that shows that lay out .... Vanderhoef/ I am still interested in what it will do with First Avenue... Atkins/ First Avenue Extended is not in our Seven Year Plan. Vanderhoef/ I realize that and I have questions when we get to it on Scott Blvd. Norton/ Comp Plan didn't have it either. Council/ (All talking). Thisrepresents onlyareesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of Februa~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Atkins/ Can't hear you. Norton/ I have trouble when I go to relate that to this .... Council Work Session Page 33 looking at the Comp Plan and try Atkins/ Our point is well taken... These projects are in compliance with the general direction of the Comp Plan .... I think we are okay on it .... Norton/ ...all one big ball of wax. Fosse/ This is our Seven Year Plan .... Norton/ When do we review that? Atkins/ That is your call... The first list is really go .... We intend to begin the work on all of these .... If there is something in there... pull back. We believe this to be in compliance with your goals. Lehman/ One thing that would be very very helpful to me... When we get these CIPs... map with the projects located on them .... Nov/ We used to have colored lines .... Lehman/ I really don't know where all of these are. Kubby/ Helps us visualize. Nov/ Rick has a map like that. Arkins/ What we will do is take one of these maps. We will draw these projects on that map and we will put it out in the lobby .... City 1996 CIP... narrative... If it helps illustrate .... Lehman/ It would help a lot. Kubby/ ...have it at the p,h .... when we vote in the budget .... Thornberry/ I haven't seen the map of the proposed Scoot Blvd Extended into ACT Circle. Does that go through the Gatens property and all of that? Atkins/ It depends on the option that we select. Kubby/ Scott doesn't go through ACT. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetrenscrlption ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34 Atkins/ (Refers to map). Here is Scott Blvd Extended eventually to go over the highway .... somewhere along this ridge line will be the east west arterial to hook up. First Avenue Extended is the other section of the thing. That is the one that is not in the Seven Year Plan... (refers to map) .... The big ticket item... is the bridge .... Norton/ Atkins/ The Old Seven Sisters... that traveled road is still in there. Vanderhoef/ Are we putting in Phase 1 of Scott Blvd? Atkins/ We will be designing it this year. Vanderhoef/ Is that in conjunction of this sewer thing? .... My question is .... we could do First Avenue Extended instead of Scott Blvd Extended. Atkins/ Theoretically, you can reprioritize anything you want .... We are into these up to here .... Norton/ How does Phase 1 take us? Fosse/ Up to the east west arterial. Atkins/ We will give you a map of that. Thornberry/ Phase 1 .... Nov/ Design is all we are doing .... Fosse/ When we get to construction in Phase 1, we will build it to the east %test arterial. Phase 2 (refers to map) .... get us over the interstate. Phase 3 brings us into Hwy 1. Atkins/ Thornberry/ Phase 4 ..... Atkins/ We have got a map .... Norton/ How do you budget this package here?... Somebody is spending time and energy .... Atkins/ There are engineering estimates on all of these Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthalowa Citycouncil meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 35 projects .... they Drive .... are rough .... Example... Waterfront Kubby/ On the first page for construction... Melrose West Paving Improvements. Isn't that to 2187 Fosse/ That is West High to 218. Kubby/ What is the next page? Fosse/ That is basically an asphalt overlay from the Interstate on out to the city limits pass the county shop. Norton/ State... Fosse/ They are contributing about $1 million for the West Melrose .... 218 into West High. Thornberry/ What was final consensus on signal light at West High? Council/ (All talking). Atkins/ You instructed me to write a letter... asking for them to share in the cost. The letter is drafted, it has not gone out yet. The signal is about $50,000. The intersection design was- Fosse/ .... another $30,000. The design is 99-100% complete on that one. It is all laid out... but they are not part of the plan... build those with our Traffic Engineering forces in house. Lehman/ Fosse/ We are missing out on some federal funds there... in all likelihood they will be directed back to another federal project .... Thornberry/ If the school wants it, they can buy it. Kubby/ Let us know when that letter is sent .... It would behoove us to call people... encourage you to participate .... Atkins/ That is a summary of our projects in this budget. Unless we hear differently, he has got a busy year. Lehman/ ...I would really like First Avenue Extended to be put back Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowe City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36 into .... Vanderhoef/ I will second that. Thornberry/ Design into the design with east west arterial and Scott Blvd Extended? Atkins/ Yeah .... Kubby/ I don't want to put it back in the Seven Year Plan until we talk about the whole thing .... Revised Comp Plan... go through the Seven Year Plan .... Vanderhoef/ Lehman/ As long as we re-visit it in a timely fashion. Kubby/ Planning has the Comp Plan for this year .... Council/ (All talking). Nov/ After the new Comp Plan is before us, we should re- prioritize... For tonight, do we have anybody objecting to what we are planning for 1996-977 Okay. Go for it. Kubby/ I put something in front of you that I got anonymously .... it is about transit... feedback about the memo about different options. Nov/ And you don't know who saw it and responded to it? Kubby/ I do .... won't be part of the public record .... Thornberry/ The only reason, Larry, that I am have way interested in re-visiting First Avenue Extended ..... is to get some of the heavy traffic away from Dodge and Governor sooner than the completion of Scott Blvd. Baker/ Norton/ Thornberry/ Take a look... With the expansion Lehman/ We will re-visit that. Thornberry/ (Can't hear). Comp Plan said counts on Dodge weren't that horrible. of NCS .... ACT .... Thlsrepresentsonlyaraasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCItycouncllmeetingofFebrue~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37 Council Time 96-30 S2 1. Norton/ Did we ever respond to the second mediation letter (from Annie Tucker) Steve? .... Atkins/ It is a question of policy whether you are going to do that or not. Linda .... Norton/ When we come to situations where we need to do some mediation, there is surely some contingency fund .... That I would be happy to proceed that way. Nov/ I have interest.. from mediators that want to be included in the process... develop some sort of guidelines .... references .... put you on the list. Somebody is working on that kind of system .... Baker/ I wanted to very briefly .... City Assessor .... Ernie and Dee Norton and I met... ask some questions in general about how the office works... My impressions ... still like to see the city council re-evaluate that office ..... suggest salary freeze if appropriate... Also suggest.. consider...hiring an outside consultant to come in and do an evaluation of the office... in coordination of County Assessor's Office... Ask Steve .... to sit down with Dan and Jerry... analyze the structure of the two offices .... idea being that you can answer several questions... 1-Are there efficiencies to be had with the City Assessor's Office. 2- Are there efficiencies to be had by some sort of coordination of the city and county that is not being done now. And 3- Are there efficiencies to be had and what are the pros and cons of consolidating the two offices. I would like to see Steve approach that question... I feel very strongly that a salary freeze on the top three salary positions is appropriate .... I think there are enough questions... justify this small step at this time and a thorough review... Takes four votes .... Lehman/ I was at that meeting and I don't share Larry's concerns ..... funding by a tax levy .... only one has a lower cost ..... COD-... We are one of the very highest in the State of Iowa... determined by comparing sales during the year with the appraised values .... One of the most active in the State of Iowa... Appears to me... office doing...exceptional job... A wage freeze sends a really really bad message .... Can't see us take city money or city time to do an independent evaluation of the Assessor's office unless we have cooperation of the school board and board of supervisors. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Kubby/ Council Work Session Page 38 Thornberry/ You can't have a study done on the efficiencies of that operation being paid for by that operation. Kubby/ We do it in the city all of the time. Arkins/ council/ (All talking). Lehman/ Even if the city residents could save some money .... the Assessor would no longer be responsible to the city .... We would have same w~ight... as Solon .... Board of Review process would also be eliminated .... We would have no control .... Atkins/ Council/ Baker/ One of the justification for the current set up is based upon the COD figure... comes from lots of factors .... Three basic factors. 1- The reason that some communities have a higher COD is because of things extraneous to the control of the City Assessor,s Office... It is the type of property ..... Then you have got the number of sales per year that help you evaluate your equity .... The thing unique to this office... Dan and Jerry.. they do extra work in the evaluation of the sales that other offices do not do... They fine tune that process. The process is not going to change... What you got are two offices... with 13 people in them... doing the same job .... using separate staffs and separate equipment .... Logically you could go in and say there are cost efficiencies... total tax package would probably be affected P Sl~lvely for both sides .... Lehman/ I just question is it worth the savings. Baker/ I would like to see some outside analysis done of the potential savings .... Norton/ I would like to see a study done .... I would like to ask somebody to take a look at it .... by combining the offices... more efficiencies in the office... Baker/ .... I am proposing that we do a little more extension study of this question ..... Reason I propose that salary freeze... Thisrepresents only a reesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting ofFebruary20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 39 comparable positions... I understand the position that perhaps his assessment of himself- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-30 SIDE 2 Baker/ Might not be parallel with his office .... I think a salary freeze if appropriate .... Norton/ Baker/ I still insist that a salary freeze for at least those administrative positions is entirely justified. Kubby/ We want an office open for 40 hours a week. Thornberry/ .... To sit there and do another cross word puzzle is not the idea... If all you want is a 40 hour work week .... Baker/ I am advocating... they are beyond a comparable salary range right now. Lehman/ ... get concurrence from either the school board or the board of supervisors .... Why should we spend our money? Kubby/ The City Assessor is not a city employee... employee of the Conference Board .... Conference Board should decide to do the study. Norton/ They should share our concerns that a study is needed. Baker/ .... We can do it independently. Nov/ I would have to read the state law to be sure that we could do it independently. Thornberry/ Who does the City Assessor report to? Norton/ The Conference Board ..... Baker/ He does perceive himself of being independent of the government bodies .... Thornberry/ We are paying how much? .... Council/ (All talking). Nov/ He has his own levy .... Thisrepresents only areesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40 Norton/ Baker/ .... Salary freeze for the administrative positions in the City Assessor's Office. Lehman/ I wouldn't .... Nov/ Do I hear four yeses? Kubby/ I would be willing to think about it. Thornberry/ I would be willing to think about it also .... Baker/ If we cannot get the Conference Board to agree to an outside assessment of the offices .... efficiencies of consolidation .... This council ought to be able to ask Steve to look at this. Thornberry/ Could we ask the... if they would be willing to do it ..... Baker/ Kubby/ Could be there are four people willing to vote yes for the Conference Board to do that but not four people to haue the city do it. Thornberry/ Baker/ Is there four ¥otes on the council to ask the Conference Board? Norton/ What is the outside consultant going to do? .... Council/ (All talking). Lehman/ With the messing with Baker/ Thornberry/ I am saying... look at they would go along with a consolidation to be made .... Council/ (All talking). kinds of numbers... I don't know why it. we are the Conference Board to see if look see at the office .... Thisrepresents only ereasonably accurate ~snscrlptlon ofthelowa CIW council meeting ofFebruery20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 41 Baker/ Real point is studying the office. Nov/ ... The only way this office will save money is by having fewer people working .... Council/ (All talking). Kubby/ Thornberry/ We consolidated transit and parking ..... Lehman/ This is totally different. One is county and one is city. Thornberry/ We consolidated those two offices for a reason. Baker/ .... all sorts of issues... You are going to have to get somebody to study the operation of the two offices. Kubby/ Norton/ ...study of the county and the city ..... Baker/ Norton/ Baker/ To present it to the Conference Board .... Thornberry/ Baker/ Kubby/ ...could be a committee of people that Thornberry/ ... I want to look at savings .... This is another these departments .... Atkins/ .... looking at a management audit ..... measurements .... assuming they have this information .... You can tell me to do it .... I there is sufficient day to day supervision .... Nov/ I think we have to look at the state law... authority we have on this .... Atkins/ If you want a management audit done, yes I is not Steve .... each department in this city... department .... look at all of performance kind of don't think check out what can do it. Thisrepresents only sreasonably accuratetransmlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of Februa~ 20,1996. WS022098 February 20, Nov/ Thornberry/ Norton/ Thornberry/ 1996 Council Work Session Page 42 ...don't know why we wouldn't have some authority .... Lehman/ He is doing a good job ..... Thornberry/ .... 3. Nov/ We have to at some point... Goal setting session with facilitator... propose that all of us think about items that we want to discuss... As much ahead of time planning .... You will get a memo... Just asking people to start thinking .... What things do we want to accomplish as a council .... 4. Kubby/ Water Festival? Norton/ Water Festival is too far away .... 5. Nov/ Are you going to the Iowa League of cities meeting in Des Moines, February 28th?... up to the individual .... Kubby/ ...I would love us to go .... lobby ..... help lobby on the issue .... Nov/ Issue... state pay their commitments to local government ..... Going to get that to you .... Council/ (Discuss attendance). Kerr/ [Attendance: Baker-no Kubby-yes Nov-yes Vanderhoef-yes Lehman-yes Thornberry-yes Norton-yes] I will firm up that reservation tomorrow .... Council/ (Discussion regarding driving schedule). Kerr/ I will take care of the registration tomorrow. Thlsrepmsants only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Februa~ 20,1996. WS022096 February 20, 1996 Council Work Session Page 43 Nov/ .... Steve and Jeff Davidson and I met with Coralville Mayor and City Manager... consolidated Transit system .... agreeing to look at the numbers .... possibility of coordinated system for FY98 .... There could be a lot of inter-meshing of services in the mean time ..... All we have is an agreement to look at it. Kubby/ .... It would be really good to appoint a couple of people on council to learn a lot about .... brainstorming about what the possibilities are. Nov/ Jeff is going to try to put together some kind of listing of possibilities and then we will brainstorm ..... Council/ (All talking) Nov/ Don't see them (Cambus) as a possibility .... Possible urban paratransit system ..... council/ Kubby/ Mayor of Coralville and council of Coralville may have two really different feelings .... Council/ (Other conversations going on). Nov/ Coralville would like to get a small subcommittee together to discuss the 965 extension alignment .... I agreed to be on the committee .... Dee Vanderhoef .... February 29, 1:30 ..... Lobby conference room. 8. Nov/ Does anybody else want to sign up for daffodils? .... bouquet of daffodils for $5.00 .... 9. Kubby/ Water Festival .... Nov/ I have already put in my two cents .... council/ (Discuss Vanderhoef). schedule. Attending: Nov, Norton, Kubby, Kubby/ I will take care of it ..... Adjourned: 9:30 PM Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of February 20,1996. WS022096