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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-04-13 Transcription (2)April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 1 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session 2:20 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Franklin, Craig, Yucuis. Tapes: 98-55, all; 98-56, Side 1. Sales Tax 98-55 S1 Atkins/(IP1 4/10 Council Packet) What I attempted to do in this revised proposal was to sort of respond to what I heard you say last time around and there have been some significant changes. I tried ... narrative... explain what I did and didn't do to come up with those numbers. I also put together for you that list of this kind of what really happens if and beyond that, Ernie, how would you like me to walk through this? It is pretty much up to you. Lehman/...questions that we have got to address .... deciding breakdown on how the money would be spent should the sales tax be passed. We have got to come to some consensus upon when this will be placed on the ballot .... relationship... to the library referendum .... We have got to plain decide that yes, this will be on the ballot at the same time as the library or it won't be .... when do we implement it... Folks in Coralville who would like very much for this not to be implemented right away because of the opening of the Coral Ridge Mall .... I think there are a few basic questions... that we have to answer .... The proposal Steve has given us is relative to a break down... I talked to a couple of folks from Coralville. They have a couple of concerns: the extension of 965 .... or improvement of Deer Creek Road .... Is something that we don't have the money to do nor is it in the CIP. The University talking about that sports complex on Mormon Trek Blvd. is another one... We own part of that street .... We may own the overpass. Atkins/Say that again .... Lehman/Half of the street, half of Mormon Trek Blvd. from Hwy 6 to the railroad tracks in Coralville. Do we own that? We do not own any of the street? Atkins/No. Franklin/That is in the Coralville jurisdiction. The only question is the railroad overpass. Coralville maintains and they may be right that the Coralville corporate limits is just north of the railroad overpass. Therefore the railroad the overpass .... would be in Iowa City's jurisdiction. Then it is an institutional road from the railroad to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 2 Melrose Avenue .... And institutional road is owned by the University of Iowa, the State basically owns it. Norton/Karin, I had always heard where we did own half of that even though Coralville maintains it .... liability case I can remember .... Franklin/I have never heard that before .... Norton/There was an agreement that they would maintain it .... Atkins/I don't recall that. Lehman/...we are going to be facing a problem there with Mormon Trek .... We wish to address with the possible proceeds of a sales tax .... earmarked for capital improvement projects .... look at with Coralville .... Vanderhoef/My question for Coralville is in their TIF, can that money from the TIF be used for that road because it is an impact on the mall. Atkins/The TIF for the mall, I assume all of those money are committed. Vanderhoet7 ...I thought you could money for access roads .... Atkins/ ....I don't think you can go back retroactively. Franklin/They would have had to delineated in urban renewal area .... for the TIF .... That is committed .... They could not... include 965 south .... Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/How much of that 965 south, from Hwy 6 south, is in the county? Franklin/All of what would be the 965 alignment .... that is all in the county or in Coralville. What we have is that stretch of Deer Creek Road which is how you would get from 965 .... to Melrose. Kubby/ ....we might want to shift things around so there is some capital improvement money from the sales tax for various projects. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 3 Vanderhoef/I wondered how we would word the library and cultural center in the possibility that the sales tax at the 50% level and the cultural and arts and library don't pass at the 60% .... Atkins/If you do not secure the 60%, you do not have the ability to go into debt. The library is an authorization for debt. That is all that means. Vanderhoef/How do we write this and allow for our extra capital projects? Atkins/You need to settle in on a package of what the issues are ....write this in a fashion... That second document .... Kubby/Dee, are you suggesting that if the multi-use ballot issue fails to get 60%, we would still go ahead with the sales tax? Vanderhoef/They are two different votes. Kubby/The only reason we are talking about the sales tax thing... Vanderhoef/But if they are both on the same ballot and the sales tax passes and the joint project does not pass, the sales tax goes forward. Kubby/It doesn't have to. We can word it saying subject to the other one passing. Lehman/Let's settle that one right now. Kubby/ Lehman/If we were to pass the sales tax- Norton/I want to be careful... Library/CenterSpace project is important .... Lehman/...If we put the sales tax on the ballot .... to fund capital projects- Are we going to say the purpose of the sales tax is to fund, as a specific use of that money, the library/cultural center or are we going to say it will fund capital projects such as library? .... (All talking). Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 4 Norton/I would certainly say such as to allow for all kinds of contingencies. Lehman/Is it consensus of the council that if the sales tax passes and the library does not that we would collect the sales tax for other capital projects? Kubby/No. Norton/I would. Kubby/The whole impetus for this conversation has been this project, its capital and its operation cost .... Norton/If the library thing didn't go... convert something to property tax relief... or other capital projects .... Couldn't you convert it to relief?. Lehman/...Karen's line of thought .... sales tax will be part of the library bond issue. Without the bond issue being passed, there is no purpose for the sales tax .... My question is whether or not we would support the sales tax and use that for capital projects... whether or not the library bond issue passes. Champion/I would totally support going forward with the sales tax and wording that capital improvements such as .... If the sales tax would pass and the library would not with a 60% vote, I would assume that they would put that right back on the ballot .... We don't have to go and re-sell this 1% sales tax again. Vanderhoef/...if we took operational things out of this proposal... go with the new moneys .... to do those operational things .... water relief, downtown investment .... public transportation .... Norton/If the library were to fail, something still has to be done there .... I guess that is why I would like to leave that flexibility .... Constrained by our present resources... subject to further erosion... Wisdom to get a more flexible source on the books .... Vanderhoef/What seems to come up .... This is an option ....legislature has given us... I can see going forward with this. Lehman/ ....sales tax ....I look at the other cities in the state of Iowa who have sales tax .... I think we should look at the sales tax as an opportunity to be riscally responsible .... things that we could do with cash up front on a lot of them .... asking the public these are the things we can do... don't have to borrow as much .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 5 We are looking at projects that may take 8 - 10 years that we would much rather see done in 4-5 years. Vanderhoef/ Kubby/We have a full CIP program in next 5-7 years... Our employees are as busy as they can be doing these things. You can't always do everything you want to do... You have to spread them out. Lehman/Out biggest restrictions are always financial restrictions. Kubby/We don't have a problem with capital moneys .... Vanderhoef/ .... different kinds of tax. We aren't depending upon the same part of the economy to provide the dollars to do those projects ....Objected to going too fast and putting that all on property owners .... Lehman/Who is in favor of putting the tax on the ballot, no ties to the library/cultural center? In other words, we would collect the tax whether or not the cultural center/library was built? Who doesn't care? I favor .... We have three that we will put the sales tax on the ballot... not specifically tied to the library/cultural center. Atkins/ Kubby/I just have kind of a political question. The sales tax is going to have a hard time passing in this community... library folks... are going to go out and sell the sales tax .... Lehman/I think it would be worded in some fashion .... The thing I hear folks saying is that if the library/cultural center does not pass, there are many other good uses to use that money for. Kubby/ Lehman/ .... Are we going to make the operation of and the building of the library contingent on the passing of the sales tax? Kubby/No. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 6 Thomberry/$22 million plus $320,000 per year for operating expenses .... Champion/If the library/cultural center passes at 60% the public is telling us that we don't care if you put this on our property tax, we are giving you the right to borrow this money .... I think that if the sales tax doesn't pass and the library does, people are saying I want this and I want it on my property tax and I don't want a 1% sales tax to pay for it. Norton/...cost to people is not going to be all that different. Kubby/ Norton/We have the capability to handle this without the sales tax. (All talking). Norton/It gets a little sticky on the operational ....bonding ... capital we certainly can do .... Thornberry/It would take money from other projects. Lehman/Steve, the estimated increase in cost of operating the library/cultural center, if it comes out of the General Fund, where would we get the money? Atkins/The General Fund .... expressed a great deal of reservation about adding a new expense item .... Lehman/This would increase our bonding capacity to 60%. Norton/You could go to a cultural levy. Atkins/And the cultural levy could only support the center for the arts. Champion/ Atkins/...I would still express caution .... with a stroke of a pen, machinery and equipment off of the tax roll. 3.5% of our tax base gone .... Lehman/...We need to sit down and say without the sales tax, this is how we can do it .... I think you have got to answer that question .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 7 Norton/Sequence of this could be a factor. Vanderhoef/ Norton/Why not go with your sales tax and see what your situation is? Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Atkins/We originally-the idea was two votes .... get authorization... 60% ....and a second vote on the sales tax ....By law, we could have a sales tax vote ....any lawful purpose ....We have discovered that many communities .... shopping list... broader appeal ....You can adopt ....a side resolution saying if that happens, this is what we intend to do. This is a bonding vote of the electorate. This is a vote of a legislative body. (Refers to chart) .... You could make this as detailed as you want it to be .... That also would mean, if you are going to borrow money to build the library under this scenario, you have to go back and get the authorization to go into debt regardless of how you pay for it. Norton/Lot easier to get the authorization if you have the money in hand .... Atkins/ Vanderhoef/...Cedar Rapids... shopping list approach .... doing it under sales tax... comment made.. this is one way of circumventing this 60% requirement on large capital projects. Atkins/...they are going to accumulate cash to pay for those things .... Vanderhoef/I like accumulating cash .... Atkins/Principle of taxation debate here .... accumulate cash means you are taxing the current generation for the benefit of the future generation .... Norton/Plausible wording for sales tax issues ....open it up for those including ....property tax relief or water relief... have a way to go ....only facing the 50% thing ....I don't think they ought to be at the same time. Kubby/An extra $15,000 for having two elections... that costs us. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session Lehman/The cost of the vote .... Kubby/It is a General Fund expenditure, the election. Lehman/In the total scheme of things, it is not a lot of money. Norton/ Champion/... library/cultural center is going to help sell the sales tax .... Put them on together .... helps gets that sales tax passed .... If the library/cultural center doesn't get 60%, then the next time they put it on the ballot, it will be a much simpler process. Kubby/..if the sales tax does not pass and the multi-use building does pass... will we allow it to go forward? Only three people said... Connie and Dee and I said we would go forward .... Norton/I would go forward some other way .... I think it is that crucial .... Thomberry/I couldn't go forward...taking $22 million of other projects. (All talking). Lehman/I would have to see how we can pay for it .... Norton/ Lehman/ Thomberry/ Vanderhoef/...a challenge for them on how badly they want or need this and what they can do to support our General Fund .... Kubby/Dean is a firm no and Ernie and Dee are a we have to explore other ways .... Norton/I agree we would have to have a plan. page 8 Champion/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 9 Lehman/My tendency is not to do it without an obvious method of funding .... operating expenses... 60% of our bonding limit .... Norton/You have to make some investment .... Lehman/Love to see it built .... Thomberry/ Norton/ Lehman/Have we said that we will put the library issue on the ballot in November.'? We have said that. Is that correct7 Norton/Yes, no later then. Lehman/On the library issue only. The library referendum, we said we would do that in November. Is that true.'? Atkins/Yes. Lehman/ Atkins/You have a resolution in place that says that. Thornberry/I thought it was going to be with the sales tax at the same time. Lehman/ O'Donnell/You want to tie it to the sales tax7 Champion/Right. Lehman/ Norton/Sales tax was not in the previous resolution .... O'Donnell/ Thomberry/I don't think any lawful purpose will fly. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 10 Norton/ Atkins/That is the extreme general statement .... Folks have written the thing that says 100% for any lawful purpose such as. Kubby/So are there four people who want to have both issues on the ballot on the same election on the same day with it spelled out more explicitly on the capital part of it? Norton/Yes, I am. Champion/Yes. Kubby/There you go. Vanderhoef/...you didn't say anything about the contingency .... For me you have got to say... you have got to spell that out for all capital projects. Thornberry/ Lehman/We do agree that we put them both on the same ballot in November. Kubby/What about the other entities that have concerns about the November date for sales tax? Atkins/Did you all agree on two votes? (All talking). Lehman/Same ballot. We may decide when we want to implement the effective date of the tax. Thornberry/That is another question .... Lehman/ (All talking). O'Donnell/Where do you specifically say what we are going to use this 1% sales tax. Lehman/On the ballot. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 11 Thomberry/There are two votes. One vote will be for library/cultural center. The other a little check-off.... yes or no and then yes or no for the sales tax. Under sales tax you have your wish list... Norton/Wording of those is very restrictive .... Steve has got to get us...exact wording... they do have an open ended feature to many of them. Thomberry/ .... portion go for library/cultural center or other capital projects .... If the library/cultural center doesn't pass, then you have to take that out .... Lehman/How much .... I need .... I would like to know how or where we would come up with the money it is going to take to nm that library/cultural center without the sales tax .... Atkins/I can do an analysis for you. You just adopted a policy not too long ago... clearly laid out... Bottom line, that is a new long term forever commitment to the General Fund .... Lehman/ Kubby/Are there any programs that are no longer in this community or need to be changed how they are offered? Lehman/ Atkins/ ....Woolf Avenue Bridge ....on debt ....I approach our capital plan very cautiously .... Norton/Several options .... (All talking). Vanderhoef/ Norton/But a cultural levy would to some extent tied to the tax base .... that would generate $440,000 a year. Atkins/That is only for CenterSpace. Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 12 Norton/Aren't CenterSpace and the library, aren't they both regarded as cultural? Vanderhoef/No. Norton/Give me a break .... Vanderhoef/...that is why I am saying that perhaps we ask the library to have a more creative way of helping fund. Lehman/ Atkins/ ....We just went through months and months of long term projections to get us in a budget policy that I am reasonably comfortable with and I think you all are too. Can we do it? Yes. Lehman/But what is the cost? Where do we get the money? Atkins/...library staffing things is one thing. Then you are going to turn the lights on ....I am not convinced that $170,000 is going to be an adequate subsidy for a brand new center for the arts. We have no idea ....We have to be realistic about how we are going to pay for it. Thornberry/What did the addition onto Mercer Park, what is that ongoing cost? Atkins/$150,000 .... Kubby/...capital pay back from the General Fund. Atkins/It is $150,000 in operating staff.... reduce by half because of the basketball league, volleyball league .... (All talking). Atkins/The study shows that. Norton/You got to allow for some growth .... Lehman/...we know we are going to have sales tax on the ballot... referendum on the ballot .... I am going to have to be shown how we can afford to do that without tying them together .... I don't see building something like that with the costs This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 13 associated with it with no visible means of paying .... I would have to have a sales tax to pay off and fund the operation of the library. Now we need to figure out how we are going to address the break down that Steve has given us here .... We need to .... Any lawful purpose... a little too generic .... I don't think we should be terribly specific .... capital projects is a category that everybody can identify with .... Downtown initiatives .... water rate relief.... operating expenses for library/cultural center .... there would have to be operating expenses for library/cultural center/something else. Champion/If the sales tax passes, we are going to be reliving the General Fund several ways which means the operating expenses for the library could come out of the General Fund .... add that to property tax relief. Atkins/ Champion/Instead of putting in operating expenses for the Library/CenterSpace, we have other things in this sales tax .... that are going to be relieving the General Fund...trade that off and take that out, operating expenses out, and add that to the property tax relief section. Atkins/I understand. (All talking). Atkins/$800,000 number I gave you at the end is the results of all of these things ....I have to re-word that and calculate that. Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/But if we are taking $500,000 out of our present General Fund for public transportation and then we pass this and we get the $500-... then we have the $500- for operating expenses for the library. Kubby/We get property tax relief one way or the other but here it is explicit. Norton/ Kubby/You could use the logic to substitute public transportation for property tax relief.... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 14 Atkins/What I am hearing you say is that when you settle in on this general outline, we will want to write up some sort of a report where you adopt... this is what this means .... That has to be spelled to in writing... become adopted part of the budget policy. I am okay with that. Everything has to be spelled out in detail outside of the ballot question. Vanderhoef/One other piece of all of this- CHANGE TAPE TO 98-55 SIDE 2 Vanderhoef/As a category... public safety is a combination of capital and personnel .... I would love to see it just for capital. Norton/It is hard to do .... comes out as property tax relief.... Every $500,000 .... in this category that you can take out of our General Fund relates to a $.60 per $1,000 reduction in taxes on the tax levy .... With an ordinary $150,000 assessed house .... You begin to take out quite a bit of the increased expense that the sales tax is going to lay on you .... I am trying to decide whether we are going to try to come out to a zero sum here. Are we going to try to not have any net increase in taxes in this process? Lehman/...no net benefit... wasting out time .... Norton/I want to be sure that it is not going to be just a total zero gain here. Lehman/If it is a wash, it is not good for anybody. Norton/...new increase in costs are going to be pretty modest. Lehman/There are two projects in here to relieve the General Fund: public transportation and human services .... $800,000 being paid out of General Fund being freed up .... Norton/Do you give that in relief or do you use it? Lehman/I think we all realize there is not breathing room... use some of it, all of it .... Norton/...direct property tax relief and then there is indirect ....Two kinds of property tax relief possible .... Atkins/Still reduces... depends on how you show it on the books .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 15 Champion/Property tax relief... it may also help even our rents in this community .... may be wishful thinking .... Lehman/First one Steve has is downtown investment initiative... Do we want to leave the name the same? .... Norton/Ought to be a little broader than downtown. Lehman/I agree. Atkins/Let me .... Blackhawk County... capital expansion, capital improvements, capital equipment to be used for the library, parks .... took care of everything .... Others that are very very specific. The more specific you become, the more you are tying your hands .... improve the public's understanding of the issue .... Lehman/Capital investment initiative appeals to me more .... not be limited to ....Tied to capital expenditures... wouldn't be absolutely tied to anyone of them ....Option... covered yourself... use it for other capital projects .... Kubby/Are we clear, are there four people- If the sales tax passes and the multi-use facility does not pass, that we are still going to go forward? I just want to be clear that there are four people? I want to be clear that if the sales tax passes, the multi- use center does not pass, that the sales tax will still be effective and charged? Lehman/Let's count noses on that .... Karen, you disagree. So it is 6-1 for including sales tax irrespective of whether or not the library passes. Norton/Which means we need to word that statement broadly enough to cover that possibility but also specifically enough to make it that, a selling point for the sales tax. Lehman/Steve, you got our gist on that. Atkins/No, I don't. Lehman/You don't? Atkins/No. Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 16 Kubby/If the sales tax passes and the multi-use facility doesn't, we go ahead with the sales tax. If the multi-use facility passes and the sales tax doesn't, that is the one I am confused on. (All talking). Kubby/We need to clarify that before we put something on the ballot .... we need to be clear. Atkins/(Refers to chart) Is that out and that is in? Lehman/I think that is the way it should be but I think the such as should include the downtown (can't hear) (All talking). Norton/Don't want to exclude other possibilities. Champion/ Kubby/Or other projects. Norton/Some of them can be specific and these other ones could be a category. Atkins/35% for capital projects, etc., such as downtown, streets, parks, library, CenterSpace. I mean you want that broad of definition? Norton/We don't want this one buried down .... Lehman/I don't think that I would .... I wouldn't put the word downtown in there ..... Vanderhoef/We are looking at entryways. Champion/And other projects. Atkins/I still believe you all are going to have to write to some sort of policy statement that explains that better than that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 17 Thomberry/...If the Library/CenterSpace does not pass and the one cent sales tax does pass and you are saying that 35% of the capital projects are going to be for Library/CenterSpace? Lehman/No. Kubby/As a possibility. Lehman/Streets, parks, library, CenterSpace. Atkins/I am saying that you want to accumulate cash at the rate of $1.750 million per year to be used on these projects as you see fit if the first one fails. That is what that one says. Thomberry/The first one doesn't pass, the second one does pass and the second one you have got we are paying for the Library/CenterSpace even though the Library/CenterSpace did not pass. Atkins/...political question... if the Library/CenterSpace is defeated, is that an expression from the public of no, I do not want that project or no, I don't want to pay for it that way? Thomberry/ Atkins/...You need to have your policy position articulated in detail. Thomberry/If the Library/CenterSpace is defeated and then you take that one cent sales tax and say it is for the Library/CenterSpace. Lehman/No. It says such as. Streets could be Scott Blvd., Hwy 6. Thomberry/...But I do have a problem with Library/CenterSpace. Vanderhoef/...if that fails, then the 35% ....council can put it out for any of these capital projects. Thomberry/Including Library/CenterSpace. Lehman/Or not including. Norton/No, you can't do that without a separate vote on that, Dean. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 18 Atkins/No. You can for example .... renovate the library with cash. (All talking). Atkins/And if you wanted to build a CenterSpace, you have two options. One is you accumulate money to go build it or you go back to sell debt .... go back again. Thornberry/If you are saving money... You are doing something they already said they didn't want done for one reason or another. Vanderhoef/ Thomberry/ Lehman/ Thornberry/ (All taking). Lehman/The question right now is .... Your assuming or your concern about taking that $1.75 million and putting it in a piggy bank someplace and building a library is basically unfounded ....If that passes you need it listed in order to spend the money. Thomberry/Streets is no problem, parks is no problem, bridges are no problem .... or than having the same thing on the second ballot that was defeated on the first ballot ..... Kubby/The words such as gives you flexibility .... Champion/I have got it- (All talking). Norton/We have got to get more coherent than this folks if we are going to get this done. Champion/...Library/CenterSpace referendum. Then that locks you in to spending only if the referendum passes. Lehman/We don't want to get locked into it anyway .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 19 Thornberry/...I have a problem with Library/CenterSpace .... that was defeated. O'Donnell/ Kubby/ Lehman/Dean, I appreciate your concern. I just don't agree with it. Do we agree that some sort of variation of what we have up there is the way we would like it to appear on the ballot? (All talking). Norton/I would rather have 40% in that category .... Lehman/Why don't we go through the rest of this and then we will worry about the percentages. Water rate relief. This has been calculated over an eight year period ....free rates at current levels. Champion/I don't want to call it water rate relief. Water rate stabilization. Norton/Water rate increase relief. I am not for it at all. Lehman/...have a fair amount of work that is going to be done in storm water control, run off control .... water related category that could be used for water rate relief strictly limited to water issues. Champion/ Lehman/Leave the 25% Norton/...I find this one a tough one .... Lehman/ O'Donnell/This water rate is a real burden on a lot of people ....water rate reliefi... Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 20 Kubby/I had a question for Steve .... We have our CIP .... a developer .... really wants in our plan .... sometimes that costs our water fund money to put in lines. I know that you calculated things into our CIP for the next 8 years. I want to make sure that we are really able to freeze rates .... that we have flexibility to yes to projects or the discipline to say no .... That rates are going to be frozen for water... that we can't say yes to additional projects .... Champion/ Thomberry/ Kubby/We are opening up a whole can of worms here by having water rates being paid by something other than ....dangerous road... subsidizing water rate users with another kind of tax. Norton/ Kubby/In general, sometimes those extra projects we take on don't affect water rates .... Is there enough flexibility in this for ...projects that this promise can be lived out? Atkins/It is a close call .... knowing what we know .... assuming .... calculate the water budget and then take the $1.25- and just subtract it out or show it as a revenue .... You could specify as policy .... Vanderhoeff ....extend out the life time payment of the whole water system .... Atkins/We are saying with $1.25 million that given the projected projects we have coming on .... use of these moneys will not require us to raise rates to generate the capital to generate the project. Vanderhoef/...additional projects .... Champion/We are talking that that is a flat tax .... Atkins/Likely to be... adjusted ....We did a modest increase in our projections .... Norton/...could word a resolution .... if any adjustments are made in the water thing that is does not come out of adjustment of current rates but come out of a longer term capital investment. Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 21 Lehman/ Yucuis/We have added in about $170,000 a year in unplanned main work .... Have it in the budget .... We have a capital account in water in case of an emergency, anything unforeseen .... Thornberry/So you have an unforeseen contingency built in. O'Donnell/Maybe 25% isn't enough for water then. Lehman/ Vanderhoef/Could you give me an example of what you are talking about .... bullet that says could be some extraordinary future federal action...? Atkins/...example .... sewer project... put it on line in '90-91. We were told at the time we had a ten year reprieve and we would not have to build any new sewer plant until the year 2000. We had a new president and new EPA and the was out .... feds can do that. Lehman/Those things you can't plan for. Atkins/...able to do the projects... We had some debt ....We had to lay some more on top of that. Thomberry/ Atkins/Nothing that identifies the issues of stormwater ....Stormwater treatment ....we will have to do something about that. Lehman/Water rate stabilization is going to stay apparently the way it is. Norton/...Which in some sense is better .... water rate relief and property tax relief in terms of who pays and who gets hurt? Lehman/...renters get the water bill directly from the city .... Thornberry/Most of the new ones have their own water meters. Lehman/Let's do the operating expenses for CenterSpace. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 22 Champion/I am suggesting eliminating that. Lehman/Picking that up under public transportation. Champion/ Kubby/...on the sales tax ballot it is new operating expenses ..... take out public transportation .... Offering people something new on the ballot. Champion/ Norton/Seems to me that is entailed... Champion/When the library passed their levy .... that was for... the running of the library .... I think the public already has a perceive notion out there .... We have already voted on a library levy. Why am I going to give them another tax? Atkins/ .... operating expense for library and/or CenterSpace .... If it were defeated, then it was assuming we would just take this money and apply it and reduce the library budget... property tax relief.... If it were defeated, we would still be able to reduce certain costs .... Vanderhoef/I was looking at .... I would like to take operating expense out of this .... What strikes me is that if the cultural/library passes and we only have 35% over here .... We have nothing in here for any other capital projects. I would like to see 10% for capital projects other than the cultural/library. Norton/ Atkins/I understand what you are saying .... I am not real sure ifI agree with it .... If at the front end the debt fails, you can still reduce property taxes or reduce the commitment you have to the library by this amount of money .... Any other capital projects .... Norton/I am confused. Atkins/We are trying to decide a policy and ballot issue at the same time ....I wrote this with the intent... still do a bunch of other things. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 23 Vanderhoef/If it passes, that is where I am stuck. Then we have nothing available for other capital projects... Atkins/No, you have $800,000 .... Norton/If you pass the thing and you need the $1.7-. .... You have got to pay for improvements to this building at some point .... How can you cover those things if the $1.7- is all eaten up for the main CenterSpace. Atkins/That is for debt. This creates cash that you could use for those projects. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/I am using the $800,000 for... personnel and general operating expenses .... I would like to keep all of personnel out of sales tax. Atkins/I am not. Vanderhoef/I hate to tie the city into the sales tax forever because they have already committed it to personnel ..... Lehman/ Vanderhoef/ Lehman/I think what you are saying Steve .... sales tax... going to have to put some money into the General Fund. Atkins/That is what I am saying. Lehman/...there is going to have to be some commitment to ongoing expenses .... Atkins/ Thomberry/ Lehman/I disagree with passing a tax that we may be able to remove .... And we have committed X dollars to operating expenses .... Atkins/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 24 Lehman/I do think that part of the sales tax revenue has got to go into the General Fund. Norton/Is there any indirect property tax relief?. .... public transportation .... Do you reduce the property taxes for that now freed up amount or do you use it? Kubby/That is the policy question .... Atkins/The General Fund is approximately $14 million in property tax .... $14 million in expenses. What you do is this thing has to change (refers to chart #4) ....You replace it... So you have $13 million in property tax .... Norton/ Atkins/The other choice... you may say I don't want to give property tax relief... pay for Hwy 6 improvement. Norton/ Atkins/You have to say something... Thornberry/You don't say zero .... Atkins/...issue of putting a policy and ballot issue together .... Kubby/...no sales tax would be used for that purpose directly .... (All talking). Atkins/The City of Linn Grove .... has zero property tax relief, 100% of General Fund to be used for any lawful purpose such as .... Bottom line is they are going to take 100% of the money and put it in the General Fund .... Point .... practically speaking they are providing property tax relief because they are going to pay for all of these projects with a sales tax. Norton/...concern... water rate... shown both ways .... water... property .... Show something directly towards property tax relief.... of a direct sort. Thornberry/ Lehman/From a realistic standpoint .... $4.8 million on take from sales tax? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 25 Atkins/No, $5 million .... Lehman/...translates into what? Atkins/ Lehman/If we do the projects that we talk about... capital projects .... transportation or operating expenses or whatever, if we do those things and we spend the $5 million... indirect property relief is how many dollars... a lot of money .... Atkins/ Lehman/$1.7 million for Library/CenterSpace... true, you don't get the $63 off your property tax .... you don't get it added on .... Atkins/...if you vote yes for both referendum, you get all of these things... purchased with the sales tax. Lehman/It would be kind of nice to look at what that sales tax transfers in tems of property tax for the General Fund or taxes to retire bonds that would do the exact same things. Atkins/We can't settle on the ballot issue, let alone put together the supporting documents .... I will calculate all of that. (All talking). Lehman/Are we going to leave operating expenses for the Library/CenterSpace alone? Thomberry/What if the Library/CenterSpace does not pass? (All talking). Norton/I would build an out in case of that... going to cost a little more to operate this situation .... Craig/If memory serves me, we probably would have had a referendum vote on this project last November if not for the issue of operating costs. Operating costs were the red flag that went up and time and time again... support the capital expense but we have to find a way to fund the operating costs or this project is to viable .... raised as an issue in the public mind. It deserves to be addressed very publicly .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 26 Lehman/Susan that is a good point .... tells the public this is where the money is coming from. Thomberry/ (All talking). Thornberry/I listened to your radio show... spending a lot of money for library staff .... question was raised .... Norton/ Lehman/We are leaving in operating expenses for the Library/CenterSpace. We are leaving public transportation alone. Is that correct? All right. Human services, 10% .... $300,000 for Aid to Agencies. Thomberry/$100,000... CDBG projects is not needed ..... We have got...City owns public housing. The city owns upwards 100 properties .... off the tax rolls. Some of these are going to Tenant-to-Ownership Program .... Kubby/CDBG moneys do not go the Public Housing Authority. Thornberry/No, they go to subsidies for housing. Is that right? Kubby/Not for city housing. Atkins/They can, it is your call. Lehman/ Thornberry/We have already got a revolving fund .... Norton/You will start developing one. Thomberry/For every house that they leave in public owned housing and go to buy one of those... we help subsidize them getting into that house ....we sell that house... can put that money back into that program. Kubby/ ....keep that money going and this housing development fund. They are not the same fund. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 27 Thomberry/The Tenant-to-Ownership Program does not need to be used to go back into buying more houses, taking them off the tax rolls. Kubby/...agreement we made with the feds .... Thomberry/We are not selling houses to buy more city owned public housing. HUD says we can sell 20 right now. Kubby/That has nothing to do with the CDBG Program ..... There are more projects than there is money ..... The theory here is that there is $105,000 more per year that can be distributed among projects .... Thornberry/Housing that they are moving out of... that money will perpetuate itself and grow to the point where we won't need as much. Norton/ Thomberry/ Norton/ Thomberry/...say they can afford the rent... Kubby/Could a staff person tell Dean?.. money that we are talking about is not CDBG money. Your issue is another issue. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about in terms of this human services money. Thomberry/I understand the whole program. Kubby/But it is not CDBG money and that is what we are talking about. Thomberry/...on human services funding. I don't think we nee to increase it $500,000 .... or $100,000. Lehman/Other thing is using $100,000 in CDBG money to create a revolving fund of $1 million .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-56 SIDE 1 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 28 Vanderhoef/This is not one of the programs that we blessed at this point. I went back and checked .... Norton/We were going to think about it .... leaves us the flexibility to consider it .... Vanderhoef/I have no problem with putting the housing as part of this .... more explicit about what is happening here .... Housing and human services. Thornberry/Housing and human services I don't think is going to get you a whole lot of votes. Norton/It also affects the aggressiveness of this tax, Dean .... Thornberry/IfI wanted to see the one cent sales tax fail, I would say 50% housing and human services .... That is something that we do more of per capital than anyone else in the midwest ..... Norton/Maybe you got a nice community for it, Dean. Thomberry/...we are doing so much more now. Kubby/We are real clear where Dean is at. Vanderhoef/...$100,000 .... it is available. It does not mean we choose to do that. It may not be spent in Aid to Agencies. Thomberry/ (All talking). Lehman/If we put it on the ballot as human services, we are then bound to spend the 10% for human services. Atkins/Yes. Kubby/ (All talking). Champion/I think we have a lot of programs. I don't think 10% of sales tax is going solve all of the problems... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 29 Thomberry/Go to Aid to Agencies. We are not giving them much less than what they are asking for .... more agencies all of the time requesting funds .... That is one area .... could be consolidated to point where 2-3 agencies could go together under one roof.... help the same people with the same problem .... same on them ....not give them another $500,000. Kubby/There are many agencies who asked us for much more than they got .... large increase because an expansion of services. Lehman/We funded about half of the requests .... about 50% of the total askings from everybody ..... Kubby/I do not believe it is factually true that we funded everybody near what they asked .... Vanderhoef/...Aid to Agencies... CDBG .... Atkins/We show the result of this vote, the 10%, as being applied to Aid to Agencies budget ....You have the ability ....to put whatever policy wrinkles you want on the thing ....Those are your calls. This clearly creates an additional $100,000 ..... Vanderhoef/It will continue to go up. Atkins/10% factor. Lehman/$100,000 to Aid to Agencies and $100,000 CDBG. Atkins/CDBG had in the past been contributing $100,000 .... The General Fund contributes $300-, CDBG $100-. It is a $400,000 budget. Lehman/...I don't consider this quite a high a priority .... Atkins/The reason a revolving fund was shown as a sample because you could leverage this money into something much broader .... Don't have to do that ....Your call. Kubby/Revolving loan fund... much more effective .... Thornberry/...increasing fund .... Lehman/...I would not vote to create that fund personally .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 30 Norton/We had a housing forum .... recommended .... Thornberry/Explain to me: Relieve the CDBG Program of $100,000... In other words, they put $100,000 into Aid to Agencies. It creates $100,000 available dollars for CDBG projects ..... Have the same amount of dollars .... Atkins/CDBG will be $100,000 better off.... use it for projects other than contributions to Aid to Agencies. Kubby/ Atkins/It does not have to be housing .... Norton/ Kubby/ Lehman/...need to fashion this ballot issue in such a way that we are going to pass it ..... A lot of that is going to depend on how we tell the public we are going to spend the money. Norton/ Lehman/Leave the human services at 10%? Norton/I would prefer to leave it where it is .... Lehman/Karen does, Connie does. Dee? Vanderhoef/I think go lower. Thornberry/...lower. O'Donnell/I would go lower, too .... another 5% in the water rate relief.... Thomberry/ Lehman/It wouldn't bother me if it were not the 10%... put it on the capital improvement projects. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 31 Kubby/...human service folks... not going to do much for the community...You have to given them something for real. Lehman/...I think we do so much more than most communities do .... Kubby/I am talking about public political perception ... what it is in it for people .... Lehman/ Thomberry/If it were 10%, I don't think it is going to make or break somebody's vote. Vanderhoef/ Thomberry/So many projects that aren't on there .... Norton/ Kubby/ Thomberry/... 5 % .... Vanderhoef/... 8% .... O'Donnell/ Norton/ Thornberry/Mike wants 5, Ernie wants 5, she wants 5 and I want 5. Kubby/ Lehman/No matter how we fashion this thing, It had better be easily understood by the people who are going to vote. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/ Vanderhoef/ Lehman/8. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 32 Atkins/Encourage you the 5 & 10 increments. Thomberry/I will go 5. Atkins/If you go 5, you are not getting any property tax relief.... Vanderhoef/5% is $250,000 .... Norton/ Champion/What you are cutting is peanuts. Kubby/ Lehman/Who is at 10%? Champion/I am. Norton/Three of us for 10%. Champion/ Thomberry/Four for 5%. (All talking). Norton/Go back and take a look at water rate relief and put this 5 with it .... O'Donnell/Part of that, Dee, is we are going to freeze the water rate for eight years .... Thomberry/ Norton/ Champion/ Lehman/Leaving it float on the water. Kubby/Where are we with that 5%? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session Lehman/I would put the 5% in capital projects ..... Norton/Put it in capital projects. Vanderhoef/If you put it back into capital, then I still want to be clear... a lot of different projects .... Problem with taking whole thing and putting it strictly to library .... Kubby/ .... If the multi-purpose building referendum passes and the sales tax does not pass, what do we do? .... There were three people who said we build it anyway. Thomberry/Could you hold that question? .... Champion/ Thornberry/The 10% public safety. Norton/I don't see what the virtue of that is over human services. Kubby/...going to need another fire station... personnel, equipment and building .... Norton/ Thomberry/ Norton/ Thomberry/Police auxiliary. O'Donnell/! think there is some merit to police auxiliary. Thornberry/ Norton/I will go with public safety .... Champion/If you had more human services, you might need less public safety. Kubby/Go Connie. Norton/ page 33 Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 34 (All talking). Lehman/All right, public safety at 10% is all right. All right. Thomberry/ Kubby/Multi-use purpose ballot item passes, the sales tax does not pass. What are our intentions?... had three people, Connie, myself and Dee Norton saying we do it anyway .... Lehman/ Kubby/We have made the decision to have both item on the same ballot .... That we make sure we tell people that these are options .... Thomberry/ Norton/ O'Donnell/ (All talking). Thornberry/Not only the cost of building it but the cost of maintaining it .... Champion/It is unreasonable.. my response... If the public decides they want this, then we are going to have to decide where we are going to get the operating funds... Lehman/If you can't do it before the ballot, you shouldn't have it on the ballot ..... Why would you give the option of buying something they can't pay for .... Plan a... sales tax or plan b... General Fund .... (All talking). Lehman/Unless we can show the public prior to putting that on the ballot where we are going to come up with the cash, I would say that it has go to be tied to the sales tax .... Kubby/...We are not going to need those operating expenses until the facility is built. That is going to be the next council .... making this decision .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 35 Thomberry/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Vanderhoef/We can put the scenario in today's budget, these are the kinds of things that we would have to look at and cut this many dollars .... This is where our choices would come from .... Norton/I think we should draft such a plan ....draconian torture .... Champion/...It bothers me to make a projection about money 4-5 years down the pike .... I just have real problems with making decisions for 5 years down the road. Lehman/We do that every day. Champion/ Norton/We would have to outline where it would come from. Vanderhoef/...We have to let the public know that that this could create this in 5 years .... Kubby/...less specifically... find $50,000 in efficiencies .... grant money... pledges... X amount of dollars ....It could be something like that... Outline some plan of how to get there. Thornberry/..categories such as public safety ....If they want to sacrifice increased public safety for a cultural center, that is their .... Kubby/So there would be a less specific or a general strategy .... Lehman/I do think we have to show what if- What if it passes, this is what we would do .... O'Donnell/ Lehman/I think we need to show that we can, in fact, afford to operate that center without a sales tax... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 36 Norton/It would be a bit of a bind in a lot of issues .... I want to be careful .... positive things... Look at the numbers .... To get behind the sales tax .... combine it with a little water relief... very positive thing and we ought to get behind it in a serious way .... Vanderhoef/...tie it together... Kubby/ Lehman/You see where that starts coming from and they say no, no, I don't want you to cut this. I am willing to pay the sales tax. (All talking). Champion/Beauty of the sales tax to pay for the library... keeps property taxes down. It takes money from a lot of different people .... sources to pay for that library/cultural center downtown .... valuable way to finance all of that .... This is a way to get some real assets into the community with a lot of different people paying for it. Kubby/Okay, so the bottom line is there are at least four people who are saying that in order for us to say it is okay to pay for the multi-use facility if the sales tax doesn't pass is if on the front end we say how we pay for it. Is that correct? Thomberry/I think that needs to be done. Norton/...We also have a responsibility to look at the positives here .... sales tax and the vitality of the community .... It is worth is... almost essential... Thomberry/I would like to know why that cultural space is going to be the savior of downtown? I will do that later .... Norton/Talk to Tom Gelman. Thornberry/ Lehman/Seems to me that we have talked this about to death... reword but essentially do what you have given us... Have to have some scenarios to show the public as to how we would come up with the operating expenses should the library bond issue should pass and the sales tax not pass. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 37 Kubby/Are we going to put the majority's wishes out to the public for feedback before the resolution? .... We talked about that for a long time .... getting some feedback on it... then doing the resolution .... Lehman/When do we have to have the wording for the ballot for the sales tax? Karr/You have plenty of time .... August. Lehman/We could put this out as a tentative thing from the council... press will let the public know... At the next council meeting indicate this is out concept and that we invite public input... O'Donnell/ Kubby/Sales tax pie and how it is split up and before we finalize that, get some community feedback .... Norton/I think that needs one more look from our side .... somewhat more explicit wording... Lehman/ O'Donnell/If the sales tax does fail... tell people how we are proposing to fund this. Kubby/ (All talking). Atkins/I am going to ask you something. This is the general distribution. (Refers to chart #5). I will give you, from what I heard, ballot language that does this to the best of my ability. I will prepare somewhat of a little side report .... Then you wish for me to put together options: #1 the debt (authorization) and #2 the sales (tax). If #1 fails and #2 passes, what happens. If#1 passes and #2 fails, what happens. If both of them fail, we know. If both of them pass, we know. Vanderhoef/On the back page of the proposal, the nine points. #4 you state 100 new downtown parking spaces. Is this not retain 100 parking spaces because the lot presently holds 100 cars? Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 38 Atkins/I agree ....I will correct that. Lehman/It is 4:30. FLIP CHART #1: 2 votes 1 vote - any lawful purpose [side resolution] FLIP CHART #2: 2 votes - same ballot vote 1 - Debt authorization vote 2 - Sales tax FLIP CHART #3: 35% Cash Debt Doxvntown Investmont Capital Projects, etc. such as streets, parks, library, CenterSpace $1,750,000 25% Water Rate Retieff Stabilization Outside Plan Pressure 10% Operating Expenses for Library/CenterSpace 10% Public Transportation 5% Human Services $250,000 10% Public Safety FLIP CHART #4 13 14,000,000 1,000,000 sales tax 14,000,000 FLIP CHART #5 10% Public Safety 5% Human Services 10% Public Transportation 10% Operating Expenses Lib & CS 40% Capital 25% Water This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session page 39 Council Meeting Schedule 98-56 S1 Lehman/Do you want to talk about future meeting times? Kubby/I have a 5:00 meeting and I have to catch a bus. Karr/...need for some special work sessions ....one item discussions... police issues... evaluations... set aside a time .... Lehman/Let's try to pick a couple of days in May and June that we are all going to be here. Karr/May 14 is one day that all seven of you are in town. (All talking-schedule discussion). Atkins/I owe you a memo on pending items which I should have done this week. Karr/Do you want to set another one possibly for June? .... Lehman/Yes. (All talking-schedule discussion). Karr/So we have two of them: May 14, 9:00 to 11:00 and July 9, 8:00 to 11:00. Okay. (All talking). Norton/...rest of July .... Kubby/One of the reasons for doing this is to give ourselves a break .... Norton/We got to get the work done... Champion/What are we doing about the sales tax? .... Norton/That is a very good question .... Lehman/...have work session start at 6:00 instead of 7:00... We have added...9th of July... Kubby/...evaluations... maybe we need another time on the 10th to finish up .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398 April 13, 1998 Council Work Session Lehman/Does July 10 work? .... 9th and 10th ....in the morning .... Karr/9:00 to 11:00 .... (All talking). Norton/June 11, 12, 13, 14 ....Ronald McDonald is going to be on my back .... (All talking). May 14 9:00 to 11:00 AM July 9 8:00 to 11:00 July 10 9:00 to 11:00 if needed. Meeting adjourned: 4:40 PM. page 40 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 13, 1998 WS041398