HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-03-25 TranscriptionMarch 25, 1996 Council Work Session 8:25 PM
Council: Nov, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef.
Absent: Baker.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Burnside, Franklin, Davidson, Gannon,
Fosse, McClure.
Tapes: 96-38, all; 96-39, all.
Review Zoning Matters 96-38 S1
[NOTE: TAPE PROBLEMS ITEMS A. and B.]
a.Consider setting a public hearing for April 9, 1996, on
Amendments to city Code Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article J,
"Overlay Zones," by creating a new overlay zoning district entitled
"Design Review Overlay Zone."
b. Consider setting a public hearing for April 9 on an ordinance
amending the Zoning Chapter to change the use regulations of a 1.88
acre tract from RR-1, Rural Residential, to RS-5, Low Density
Single-Family Residential for property located at 3263 Rohret Road.
(REZ96-0003)
c. Public hearing on a resolution to amend the Comprehensive Plan to
incorporate an amendment to the JCCOG Arterial Street Plan which
includes Oakdale Boulevard.
Franklin/ P.h. on a resolution to amend the Comp Plan to
incorporate amendment to the arterial street plan which
includes Oakdale Blvd. I am not going to talk about this now.
It is on another time in your agenda.
d. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by
changing the use regulations of an approximate .14 acre parcel
located at 24 N. Van Buren Street from RM-44, High Density Multi-
Family Residential, to R/O, Residential/Office. (REZ95-0016)
Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to
rezone property at 24 North Van Buren .... RM-44 to R/O.
Kubby/ (Can't hear).
Vanderhoef/ Looks like they are already working on it. They are
doing some grading there.
Franklin/ Issue here. This is a small piece (refers to map). It
will extend the R/O zone to this ..... Usually a small lot is
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not appropriate for rezoning. This is contagious to an R/O
zone. This is a house just north of the alley...north of the
Credit Union and the intention is to use this for an office
(refers to map). The issue at P/Z Commission was whether
sufficient parking could be provided on the lot before it was
rezoned ..... If it couldn't comply with the parking then it
was not reasonable then to fezone it for a more intensive use.
This is a conceptual site plan which has seven parking spaces.
Only six are required but a handicapped space has been placed
in the required front yard. This will require a minor
modification that is done administratively. If that does not
succeed, then this will just be pushed back and there will be
six spaces and a more substantial ramp would have to be put in
here. It is possible .... recommend of P/Z and staff is to
rezone this property.
Kubby/ Wasn't there kind of a hill that goes right to the alley?
Franklin/ That is going to be cut out. Right there (refers to
map) .....
Kubby/
Franklin/
Norton/ This is just p.h. at this point.
Franklin/ That is right. First consideration won't be on until the
9th.
e. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning,"
Article H, "Industrial Zones," to allow the outdoor storage of
recyclable materials in the I-1 zone as an accessory use to a
recycling processing facility by special exception. (Second
consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on the recyclable in I-1 zone, the
outdoor storage.
f. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," to
allow temporary real estate sales centers in residential zones.
(Second consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on temporary real estate sales
centers in residential zones.
g. Consider an ordinance amending the Conditional Zoning Agreement
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for the D&L Subdivision, located southeast of the intersection of
Highway 1 and Sunset Street, to eliminate the requirement to
provide access to property to the south. (REZ96-0002) (Second
consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on the amending the CZA for D&L
Subdivision. This is the access easement. Expedited action has
been requested.
h. Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat for Newport
Ridge Subdivision, a 12-lot, 25.5 acre residential subdivision
located on Newport Road, 1/4 mile east of its intersection with
Prairie du Chien Road. (SUB96-0001)
Franklin/ Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat in
Johnson County for Newport Ridge. This is a preliminary plat.
(Refers to plat). Issues here had to do with access points on
Newport Road because there is a curve here. The entire
subdivision is consistent with the Fringe Agreement. It is in
Area 3...targeted for residential development in the county.
(Refers to plat). The subdivision of this property does
minimize additional access points on Newport Road. There
really weren't any issues with this subdivision. Everything
has been resolved. The grading plan has been approved and so
it is recommended for approval.
Kubby/ So they are staying away from the wet areas?
Franklin/ Yes.
Kubby/ It was helpful for me to see in the staff report that the
intent of the Sensitive Areas Ordinance...
Norton/ Outlots-
Franklin/ Outlot D (refers to plat) includes an existing pond and
C... is open space... consequence of the road going in. Those
will be maintained by the homeowners association... specified.
Vanderhoef/ There was a wooded area also ....
Franklin / In outlot C ..... (refers to plat).
Thornberry/ It is a pretty location.
i. Consider a recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission
approving the proposed east alignment for the extension of Highway
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965.
Franklin/ The last item is Highway 965. Also an item that we have
pulled out of the agenda to talk about separately and Jeff is
going to start with Oakdale Blvd.
Kubby/ Is Galway Hills going to be on our next meeting or the
meeting after?
Franklin/ Galway Hills should be on the next one if
delineation is all worked out. That is what we
for.
the wetlands
are waiting
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Arterial Street Plan - Oakdale Blvd. 96-38 Sl
Davidson/ Item 6c. on your P/Z items tomorrow night is a p.h. on a
resolution to amend the Comp Plan to add the extension of
Oakdale Blvd .... between First Avenue Coralville and County
Road W66 which is Dubuque Street Extended .... we have got a
couple of parallel same issues going on in a couple of
parallel places. On Wednesday, the JCCOG Urbanized Area Policy
Board of which five of you are representatives will be
considering the amendment to the JCCOG Arterial Street
Plan ..... three of you in addition to Henry Herwig and Don
Sehr and myself took a look at the property out here .....
helpful to see lay of the land. JCCOG will be considering that
matter on Wednesday .... knowing JCCOG takes action .... which
way they go when you consider it on the 9th as a Comp Plan
amendment. The reason that we are going through this sort of
two stage deal is that the JCCOG Arterial Street Plan is
adopted as the arterial street planning element of the Iowa
City Comp Plan .... In addition to the many public comments you
received already, we had a hearing at JCCOG last time and
there was some good discussion. There were two recommendations
that had been received... Iowa City P/Z Commission recommends
on a vote 5-1 to approve this proposed amendment. the JCCOG
Transportation Technical Advisory Committee also unanimously
voted to recommend approval of this with the stipulation that
this be proposed segment be constructed to urban design
standards .... I think if and when this road gets built it will
be built either by Coralville or Iowa city to urban standards.
The staff report you received ..... The reasons that this is
under consideration- Coralville has asked for the proposed
amendment to the JCCOG Arterial Street Plan... they want to
have this in place ..... r.o.w. reserved for this road. They
also would like to have this end of it (refers to map) .....
this is the part that would eventually be part of Iowa
City .... That the corridor in the mean time be preserved ....
Final thing, Coralville has stated that they don't want to
build their part of the road if it is not ever going to go
anywhere .... Consideration of whether or not there should ever
be a street through here .... This is essentially step one of
what I characterized as a three step process of building a
road. 1- Put it in the plan; 2- Do a study of the engineering
and the environmental factors, the alignment study .... 3-....
For you all to decide if you want to allocate public funds or
work with the private developer to construct. You do have
control of that final stage if and when it ever gets
constructed.
Kubby/ For Coralville, if we would say no or if JCCOG would say no
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and or Iowa City would say no, and they had residential or
commercial development and a school in this area .... they
would certainly build a street for traffic circulation.
Davidson/ ...There was discussion if only a collector street were
built through here .... it will probably start carrying some
arterial traffic... If we start getting people going through
the area... that is arterial type traffic ..... They don't want
to construct on a 100 foot r.o.w. an arterial type street with
limited access from development if it is not going to go
anywhere.
Norton/ But when you say go anywhere, you mean to W66. The problem
is they could get there by a very circuitous route that would
be less attractive and still have that access... between Ridge
Road and First Avenue and W66 .... trying to figure out who is
going to use this precisely .... Trying to think about is there
through traffic that needs to get there.
Davidson/ The issue, Dee, is that if you construct a series of
collector streets .... if that is the only way through this
area... between north coralville and the rest of Iowa City,
eventually people are going to figure our how to get through
if that is the only way. If you build this street and also
have collector streets .... then you don't run into that
problem.
Norton/ Will there be houses on the south side of that extension?
Davidson/ No.
Norton/ Who is paying for that side?
Davidson/ It is similar to any arterial street. It would eventually
get built if we are talking about Coralville parts because
that is where most of the development would be by either City
of Coralville funds or working with private developers .... I
think in Coralville Comp Plan they have shown some
neighborhood commercial type on south side but even that, Dee,
is speculative...
Nov/ Is there no way to put that road further north?
Davidson/ That got discussed also at JCCOG .... mixed opinions... by
going up the hill (refers to map) there is very pull
horizontal site distance .....
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Kubby/
Nov/ He was talking about the current proposal. He wasn't talking
about something else.
Davidson/ (Refers to map). He lives about right there, north of the
existing Northwood Estates ....
Kubby/
Vanderhoef/ Yes, there is a place for north... that you can come in
clear at the top end of the property .... one property owner up
there. It comes out just north of where the dam road is ....
Davidson/ (Refers to map). That is Rustic Ridge Road ....
Vanderboef/ .... so there is another route there that is not cutting
into any new virgin territory and it is very rugged there ....
It does appear to be very very rugged... ravines... The road
that is up there seems like a real good solution and would
service a lot of people from the whole north corridor.
Kubby/ .... 1-80 is so close...why invest in any further
development?
Vanderhoef/ ...Like Jeff has said, we don't have the topography and
the cost... It is going to take considerable changing of the
terrain to bring it up higher ....
Kubby/ ...If this other road that is to the north... How does that
change your viewpoint about 1-807
Vanderhoef/ The Oakdale Blvd. area, you mean?
Kubby/ By having the road more northerly ....
Vanderhoef/ I am confused because there is no ..... that is way
north of where we are talking. She is talking opposite the dam
road .... Steward Road.
Vanderhoef/ (Refers to map).
Kubby/
Vanderhoef/ The road that is there is real possible without using
the Oakdale Extension.
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Norton/ I guess I don't understand the road that is there ....
Rustic Ridge is the only road that I know of.
Davidson/ Rustic Ridge Road is the one that she is talking about.
It goes between .... North Liberty Road and W66...short
section.
Norton/ It is not a realistic option for Oakdale.
Davidson/ That becomes the option is what Dee was trying to say.
Norton/ It would take them half way to North Liberty to get into
Iowa City.
Vanderhoef/ It would be servicing a different group of people ....
north corridor people which Oakdale Blvd. would not service
those people ..... dam road people and River Hts. would have an
option... Jeff, when you gave the figures of the additional
1,000 to 2,000 cars that would be dumping onto Dubuque Street-
Davidson/ (Refers to map).
Vanderhoef/ Were you factoring in the 600 plus houses that are
being planned for this property where Oakdale Blvd. is coming
through?
Davidson/ I assume .... we did have some type of residential
development .... It was factored in to some degree but I can't
tell you exactly what houses ..... modeling...too many factors
involved. We can give a rough idea.
Norton/ I started kind of reluctant .... I guess I am-
Nov/ This was meant to connect Coralville to Iowa City.
Norton/ ....
Davidson/ ...Important consideration for Coralville... that there
be additional connections between Coralville and Iowa City.
Norton/ Without having to go down First Avenue.
Davidson/ That is Coralville's growth area.
Norton/... got to look at this thing in a more comprehensive
way ....
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Kubby/ To me, if you buy the desire to connect our communities
more, there is always these trade-offs. Why not use 1-807 ....
instead of tearing up a beautiful place .... It is a resource
that is there.
Norton/ This is going to be developed anyhow. They have already got
the sewer manholes into this property .... That hill is going
to be developed for sure... almost over to W66 ....
Thornberry/ The last third goes through private property... cannot
be developed to north and south as far as Iowa City is
concerned. It would have to be condemned .... for the road.
What is north of the proposed road... the wet-?
Norton/ The quarry is only on the south of the road.
Thornberry/ They bought north.
Davidson/ Part of the alignment study would be taking a look at
this area .... that will impact on what eventually might be
done. We have had inquiries about commercial development
possibly in this area ....
Thornberry/ Did Iowa River Products buy north of that proposed
road?
Davidson/ I heard the same thing you did that River Products did
buy additional property in this area. I haven't seen that
delineated.
Vanderhoef/ Dee .... resources. I am looking at a second resource
and that is our federal dollars for highway and when we start
putting the money to put six lanes into that federal highway,
1-80, and 3/4 of a mile from there say we want federal moneys
again to put an arterial in. I think that is poor use of our
money.
Norton/ To use interstate, that st~11 puts pressure on Dubuque
Street ....
Kubby/
Norton/ I find it a very tough question... does it make it a more
decent connection between the two communities? .... Maybe it
has more virtues to them than us, I don't know.
Kubby/ Any other reaction from the visit?
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Thornberry/ The people that live in the north corridor have an
option of either going down the interstate and going across to
Coralville .... Coralville... their core city is going to be
south of 1-80. We have already seen that published in the
paper .... They are currently using- When I go to Coralville
from West Overlook, I go north, up across and come down. It is
real close. 1/4 mile is not very far .... I would like to see
us have the money for Scott Blvd. Extension, for other things
that we have got going in Iowa City. The only reason to extend
that road over to W66 is .... well, I don't know exactly.
Norton/ Certainly access for those people .... 600 houses that he
is talking about .... They can get in and out with small roads.
Lehman/ I don't have a particular problem with it. I am not sure
there has to be an arterial .... Seems a 100 foot r.o.w. is a
pretty good swath to be taken through there. Maybe that is
appropriate, I don't know.
Davidson/ .... 100 feet gets you initially a two lane street ....
Vanderhoef/ One other conversation that this council has not had at
this point that makes me uneasy... is still what area we are
talking about for annexation?
Franklin/ I am thinking about how I would react .... Comments...this
area is going to develop anyway. If it is in fact going to
develop anyway and there are roads that are connecting First
Avenue to W66, there will be something... functions as an
arterial... If this were happening in the city, I would want
to see some provision there where there would be a road that
would function and would be built as an arterial to handle
that traffic and not have it be working its way through the
neighborhood or through the River Hts. area .... Comes down to
whether you believe that the area is going to develop or not
because if it is going to develop, I think you need to have
that connection... for people in Iowa City to get to
Coralville, too ..... My first reaction .... we are going to
have to upgrade Dubuque Street because of all of this
traffic .... This really is looking at a street network for the
Iowa City-Coralville area and more we are into that .... This
is an area that we could look at for annexation of those 700
acres that we have north of 1-80 .... the amount is determined
by the capacity in the River Corridor Trunk but it doesn't
necessarily mean that the 700 acres has to be here in this
area. It could be to the east .... just shouldn't be more than
the 700 acres if we are going to use the plans that we have
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for the sewage treatment plant.
Kubby/ I agree with the general concept of making sure people can
get back and forth between the cities. But in this particular
area, how critical is it?
Franklin/ That is where it comes back to is it going to develop
anyway? .... Do we want to have some control if it does... we
will be reviewing subdivisions in this area .... We are going to
have to face the questions of street layouts and what it is
going to be like...what standards?
Kubby/ If the land that would be the connector... is owned by a
private entity ....
Franklin/ That is a piece I don't know about as to who owns it.
Kubby/ If it is not going to connect unless we condemn, uses on
either side of it.
Franklin/ So far I view this in terms of is there and should there
be a connection between First Avenue and W66 and not exactly
where it is .... If River Products ownership is so extensive...
that becomes a factor.
Nov/ If you are going to put in residential development, I think it
makes better sense to put that road in further north and have
residences on both sides of it.
Davidson/ This is something the property owner of that property is
not in favor of that. He stated that to us. Karin, Coralville
understands that scenario that you gave and is comfortable
with it. That there has to be a lot of things happen before
the part of the road in Iowa City would get constructed. All
they want is some assurance that some day there will be a road
there so that when they put there ~nvestment into the 2/3's on
their side, that some day through the political process, there
would at least be consideration ....
Kubby/
Vanderhoef/ There is nothing that says we can't call it an arterial
if it is further north.
Davidson/
Vanderhoef/
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Thornberry/ To get funds I think they need to have it connect to.
Franklin/ If it is just between First Avenue and W66 somewhere up
there, it is not going to have the arterial traffic it would
have if it were an extension of 0akdale because you are
connecting W66 to 965.
Norton/ Won't we need... wouldn't Iowa City want to expand its
growth area... so you have even more leverage on the nature of
development at the potential intersection of W66 and this
extension .... I think we would want to extend our growth area.
Franklin/ As we are working through the comprehensive planning
process now over this calendar year, one of the issues that we
have is that 700 acres. We have got to identify it .... We have
got to see where we want to be north of 1-80, if we want to
be.
Norton/ A lot of that is in the Coralville growth area ....
Vanderhoef/ ...like to have a conversation about our 700 acre area
of what we are considering annexing ....
Kubby/ We might say no now and say after we have done our Comp Plan
update we might want to revisit the issue.
Vanderhoef/ That is where I am .... I would like to postpone this
whole decision until we have got a chance to look at that.
Franklin/ Does the annexation of property determine whether you
think it would be a good idea to have a connection or not? Or
can you make that determination about the extension
independent of where the property is, whose jurisdiction it is
under?
Norton/ I think you could .... very concerned about the nature of
development at the junction ....
Davidson/ The three of you were out there. Where we stood on Mr.
Pratt's land, on that hill... that ravine is this one (refers
to map). That goes up and hits W66 I think just south of Mr.
Pratt's little sliver. I believe all of his is in the
Coralville area .... It will be sewered .... Anything else on
this before the hearing tomorrow night?
Norton/ What do we take to the hearing?
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Nov/ We are going to listen, that is all we
tomorrow.
Davidson/ It is up to the
Page 13
are going to be doing
board to determine as they vote on
Wednesday. Coralville is expecting a vote but that is for you
all to decide.
Thornberry/ JCCOG, on Wednesday?
Norton/ They are hoping to vote. They are trying to get an
application in.
Nov/
Norton/ I appreciate the deferring ....
Thornberry/ Does Iowa City vote as a body at JCCOG?
Nov/ No, individuals?
Kubby/ How many total votes are there at JCCOG?
Davidson/ 5.
Kubby/ JCCOG?
Davidson/ 11. Anything else? Move on to 965.
Kubby/ .... repeat earlier questions...
Franklin/ Is annexation a determining factor of whether it is a
good idea to have this connection between the two communities?
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Hiqhwav 965 Alignment 96-38 Sl
Davidson/ Item #6i on your agenda under P/Z items tomorrow is to
consider a recommendation of the P/Z Commission to approve the
east alignment for the extension of Highway 965 between
Highway 6 and Highway 1. To use the example...three phases of
developing a new road, this is phase 2 .... the issue is do you
favor the east or west alignment of this proposed extension?
What you are doing... indicate the impacts of one decision
versus the other. The City of Coralville has already formally
adopted the west alignment as their preferred alignment. If
you also adopt the west alignment, what you would be doing is
authorizing the mayor to enter into an agreement jointly with
Johnson County and Coralville that the west alignment is the
adopted alignment for this extension .... It is up to
Coralville individually with Coralville and Iowa City
individually with Iowa City to actually construct or have
constructed portions of that road. If you adopt the east
alternative...authorizing to continue negotiations with City
of Coralville .... subcommittee .... Coralville has not taken a
position on the east alignment .... The County is part of this
(refers to map)...orange line is that same annexation
agreement ..... is what eventually would be City of
Coralville .... (Refers to map) ..... This summer the City of
Coralville will be reconstructing this intersection in
conjunction with the new mall. They will be reconstructing
that ..... Most of you are familiar with the alignment study
that was done .... Two alternatives here were screened from
36... ones that have the least environmental impact and can be
engineered .... You have a memo from Karin detailing some of
the growth area boundary issue in this area .... As much
information you can give me at this point as to which way you
are heading with this .... would be helpful.
Nov/
I would like to go back to the complete study... summary here.
The summary tells us something like there are three more acres
of slopes... of wetlands but it doesn't give us the total. If
the total is four and we are adding 3 more acres, that is
significant. If the total is 20 and we are adding three more
acres, that isn't. Do we know?
Davidson/ Sure, we do know and I can check and find that out .... the
decision has been made that there should be a road through
here. So the question that you are faced with is what is the
way to do that with the least amount of damage to the
environment and what you are seeing are the two alignments
that do that. Certainly I can try and recover that information
for you.
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Nov/
Well, I was trying to make the comparisons here and the only
comparison we can make very specifically is the difference in
cost.
Davidson/ Which is about a wash.
Nov/ $715,000 difference here.
Davidson/ That, I would emphasize, is an estimate of- I am
considering those two numbers .... a wash... because it is an
estimate that is not based on actually constructing it but
just on general type. I wouldn't take that as being that great
of a distinction.
Norton/ Is Deer Creek just completely out of the question? .....
Davidson/ .... The reasons that Deer Creek Road goes around like
this right now (refers to map) .... relocated when the
interstate went in. There are three reasons that that was not
considered a favorable alternative, Dee. One was the
consultant was given this intersection... wanted it to tie in
with Highway 965. The other thing is if you take that location
as a given, you have to build a lot more road in order to
swing over to that and then get on that alignment .... You are
building a lot more road. The third factor was by the time you
change the horizontal and vertical-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-38 SIDE 2
Half of the street, you have a mess with existing driveways
along there .... Those three factors... we didn't consider that
a good alternative.
Norton/ But you are going to have three roads in a line here,
right?
Davidson/ From Camp Cardinal (refers to map) to Deer Creek is
probably roughly a mile .... The intention then is Camp
Cardinal would be basically a collector street. (Refers to
map) ..... Deer Creek is an existing and improved road ....
Coralville's Comp Plan calls for some fairly elaborate things
out there ....
Norton/ .... I feel ponderous again .... Would it give us fits in
the west alignment...
Kubby/ Changes... our city boundaries go along natural lines so
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that water flows in a natural way.
Norton/ But we have violated that so many times, Karen ..... We have
got a Highlander lift station... Hawkeye lift station...
Rohret Road lift station ....
Kubby/ All those things were areas of town that were built before
we were doing comprehensive planning.
Norton/ Not Highlander... not Rohret Road...
Kubby/ We agreed to put them in but they were places within the
city limits already .... trying to become more efficient...
instead of having water run uphill.
Franklin/ In the 60's we annexed a lot of land and I don't know all
of the history .... finally came to an agreement... Lift
stations that we have are a consequence of serving areas
within the corporate limits and once someone is within the
corporate limits we do have certain obligations and we try to
meet those obligations... I don't know now the issue is one of
lift stations or not .... Lift stations now are mechanically
better than they were years ago and so in terms of the cost of
them and the engineering it is not as big as an issue as it
use to be but it is a convenient planning tool to use water
sheds .... make decisions about growth... capitol
improvements .... Try to keep some...managing the community,
managing how is grows in some fashion ....
Norton/ What I am looking at is the question of how to make a
decent boundary .... a defined edge and try to move in some way
towards that... so that you knew when you were in the
country .... Therefore I am looking at which way that could be
managed ....
Franklin/ In terms of making this alignment decision, the
importance of it is...implications of the decision... There
isn't a remarkable difference between the east and west
alignments .... 1/2 mile .... The consequence comes more in terms
of what you then do with this outline that has been adopted of
the growth area of the city.
Kubby/ Although that 1/2 mile has a lot of implications to city
services .... solid waste... transit ....
Franklin/ That is a consequence then of making a decision to change
the growth boundaries .... The more arbitrary that line is, the
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 17
more difficult it is for it to stand the test of time and for
other councils to understand the rationale .... The existing
corporate boundary here .... has a little bubble that comes out
here is the consequence of the water shed and existing
corporate boundary. If we then go to the next water shed, this
is where we are looking at (refers to map)...about two miles
out .... rough line .... However, you could use the westerly
alignment of 965 as a line .... roadways typically don't define
the boundaries of cities .... They provide access .... You then
provide the other facilities such as sewer .... and that is
where you get into the water shed issue. You can make the
decision to stop there.
Norton/ Since you don't have the logical boundaries of grade
there .... maybe the road ...zoning on both sides of that
road ....
Franklin/ And we did that on Slothower Road.
Norton/
Franklin/ Look at Slothower Road. We annexed 300 feet west of
Slothower road to do exactly what you said and now we are
talking about going beyond .... It is ID-RS now ....
Norton/
Franklin/ .... When we did Scott Blvd., we did 300 feet east of
Scott Blvd. and now we have got our corporate boundaries out
considerably beyond Scott Blvd. So that is going to happen and
the trick is to find the line that you can live with for
awhile .....
Norton/ Depends on the zoning along those roads and what you
approve in the way of subdivisions along those roads.
Franklin/ That changes with time and pressures to develop.
Norton/
NOV/ Somebody is going to come along and say we have got a road and
some sewer lines...
Franklin/ If you can withstand the political pressures of the
demands for development ....
Norton/
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18
Franklin/ It is not easy at all ....
Norton/
Kubby/ What has happened .... recognizable change in density really
means sprawl, not a defined line .... That means the county
saying no to some things ..... For me, assuming that the
question should there be a road here has been decided, the
east alternative seems more attractive to me except for having
the bridge in Iowa City ....
Franklin/
Davidson/ We have been sort of forecasting .... construction of that
bridge will be so expensive... you are going to see this road
come down to either that alignment (refers to map)... hook up
with Deer Creek Road and provide a connection... Then as you
get growth coming up... I have heard from a lot of people who
are either interested in property in this area .... This might
possibly be .... That bridge is not going to be something that
happens... in short range.
Norton/ Is there any open space considerations out there, Dee, that
would affect us?
Vanderhoef/ Anything that is in the Iowa City area is going to be
under the ordinance...
Norton/ Would that affect the alignment at all?
Vanderhoef/ Not specifically to this ..... rugged terrain .....
Davidson/ With respect t0 a decision on this one, how would you
like to proceed? Do you want this on your agenda on the 9th
for consideration? You have the recommendation tomorrow night.
That is all you have for tomorrow night.
Nov/
So tomorrow night we would acknowledge the fact that we
received the recommendation and discuss it further at another
time.
Davidson/ Do you need another work session on it? Do you want to
schedule it for a formal meeting?
Nov/ No.
Thornberry/ I think Naomi had some requests that I would like to
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19
see also.
Davidson/ We will get you the information about the total amount of
those environmental features that would be displaced.
Kubby/ The displacement of homes you have. There are two (refers to
map).
Nov/ What we are getting here is west alternative will displace one
more home than the east alternative.
Davidson/ Two with the west and one with the east. The same one ....
Total is two.
Nov/ And we need this kind of information about woodlands and
wetlands and everything else.
Davidson/ I will get you more complete information for you.
Kubby/ So are we scheduling just a vote later...another work
session .... in terms of the 36 options... I don't disagree
that we should get that information but I don't know how it is
going to help us move forward.
Nov/ I think it would help one way or another if we knew there was
a total of fewer environmental impacts in one side than in
another.
Davidson/ That information is summarized in the information you
received.
Nov/
Thornberry/ What you are saying one side takes two more acres of
wetlands... didn't say how many.
Kubby/
Norton/
Davidson/ We have been assuming the most important consideration
for you is these do the least environmental damage of any
alternative.
Norton/ The process is getting away to me.
Davidson/ JCCOG is done with this. It was added to the street plan
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March 25, 1996
Council Work Session Page 20
last spring... The alignment study and adoption of an
alignment is step 2 and then any programming of a capital
project or working with a subdivider to build part of it is a
third step.
Norton/
Kubby/ It was a spilt vote at JCCOG ....
Davidson/ Yes, it was.
Nov/
..... JCCOG ..... What we are doing now is deciding which of
the alignments do we want because JCCOG has already decided we
ought to have a street here.
Norton/
Davidson/ That is what I am asking right now. Do we schedule
another work session or a formal consideration?
Vanderhoef/ can you put your spotter on the five acres of farm land
that would be saved on the east alignment versus the west?
Davidson/ No, I cannot.
Vanderhoef/ Five more acres would be impacted in the west alignment
than the east alignment and I am wondering how many tillable
acres there are?
Davidson/ I will try to get all of those.
Kubby/ ...seems practical that we should talk about it at a work
session .... If we want more information... people are very
tentative ....
Nov/
.... We may or may not get four people that are going to agree.
Are we going to change anything by having another
' 9
conversation .
Kubby/ We did on Oakdale ....
Thornberry/ .... I didn't know which way you are going.
Davidson/ So the information about the total amount of impacted
features is something you want to decide this alignment issue.
Remember, we are not building any road right now. Okay.
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21
Lehman/ I really think ....
looking for a grasping
policies ......
going to be a wash. I think we are
at straws. Bigger question .... growth
Nov/
So you are saying that our environmental concerns are not
going to be truly different between the east and west
alignment. We ought to pick the one that is going to affect
our growth area? Which case we should go with the east
alignment because this is the one that defines the current
growth area.
Norton/ Consistent with our present concepts.
Davidson/ If there is concurrence for the east alignment, then
probably we don't need formal action. It is just a matter of
getting back together with Coralville and getting something
worked out. Correct?
Nov/ That is what it sounds like.
Davidson/ I will get with Coralville and let you know what they
have to say ....
Thornberry/ I have a question. Has it been decided that we are
taking the east alignment?
Nov/ No, it hasn't been decided. My question is are there people
here who feel ready to say the east alignment is the logical
choice based on our current Comp Plan?
Council/ (Yes).
Davidson/ I just counted four.
Nov/ Sounds like we have four.
Davidson/ Why don't I get back to Coralville ..... I will come back
to you for formal action on the east alignment... If they say
they would like to talk, would you like to appoint a committee
to talk now? ....
Nov/ If we need a committee we will appoint one.
Kubby/ I would appreciate if the group did that and not the mayor.
Nov/ We can do that.
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WS032596
March 25, 1996
Davidson/ Okay,
Nov/
Thornberry/ I think
something.
Council Work Session Page 22
I will let you know what Coralville says.
we have to work with our sister city on
Lehman/ .... I am not married to the easterly route.
Davidson/ Naomi...they have said simply...their comp plan calls for
in this area .... They have some fairly elaborate plans for
this area and being able to have this swing to the west
enables to serve that better .... They prefer the west.
Kubby/ But what it does is if we go with the west it changes our
Comp Plan ...... Is that an okay thing? ....
Thornberry/
Kubby/
Nov/ Let'.~ not get University Hts. into this. This is 965 we are
talk~n~ about.
Thornberry/ I just feel we need to work- Since I am opposed to the
other road .... I am not a tree hugging toad kisser or
whatever ....
Nov/ Can we change the subject here. I don't hear a decision-
Davidson/ There is still a majority for the east, right?
Nov/ We are going to have to get together with Coralville.
Davidson/ I will talk with Coralville and report back.
Nov/ Thank you.
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23
Melrose Avenue - B¥in~ton to Hawkins: DesiGn Elements 96-38 S2
Davidson/ You have nothing on your formal agenda ..... tomorrow
night. The reason you have this for your consideration tonight
is that Steve needs concurrence, Steve Jacobson from NNW,
Inc., doing the design of the Melrose Avenue project for us.
We need concurrence on the proposed design for the Melrose
Avenue project between University Hts. and Byington Road so
that it can be submitted for the June IDOT letting and we
assumed ... you would like to have some input on this. You
have some pieces of information .... memo from me outlining
sort of the work that has been done with the Melrose Avenue
Neighborhood Association and I can certainly say... things
have gone really well. We have had several meetings .... field
trip up there ..... actually be there on site. As indicated in
the memo... With respect to pedestrian crosswalks, proposal
for a brick border area between the sidewalk and the curb,
these are all elements in the proposed plan .... issues with
respect to lighting and signage .... We are very much in
consistent with what the neighborhood association would like
to see. There are three points that I did highlight in the
memo... two of them have been worked out since you received
the mamo. I had a couple of conversations with M. Widness last
week .... confusion about the transit shelters. We will propose
what the neighbor association is endorsing .... two shelters,
one on north side, one on south side (refers to map) ....
Norton/ I understand if you put it on the west side of Melrose
Court and the bus is coming down, people trying to make a left
off of Melrose Court .... going to have to jockey around a
parked bus.
Davidson/ The bigger concern... was for the bus .... ability to
weave through the lanes of traffic .... They have worked out or
they will be talking to .... They don't want to propose a
shelter where somebody doesn't want it .... There will be one
on the north side .... enough people getting on and off ....
There will be a lot of new destinations with the Pavilion
buildings .... field house and parking ramp ....
Norton/ It will be a mess at that corner ....
Davidson/ What do the rest of you think about the shelters?
Nov/ Shelters are not the problem. I think the pedestrian cross
walk is-
Davidson/ One other thing we did get ironed out was this
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24
landscaping issue .... There will not be landscaping funds for
this area back here as part of this federal aid project
(refers to map)... PIN grant program... working with the gas
and electric company... Project Green ..... other sources ....
That seemed to be worked out as well .... One thing where there
is still probably a discrepancy between the staff proposal and
neighborhood... at Melrose Court, the neighborhood association
would still like to see a signal of some type there... a
pedestrian actuated signal .... Staff position has been .... we
are just a little nervous ... we don't know exactly what it is
going to do to traffic patterns. We would like to see the way
the traffic patterns do evolve and then study that issue ....
A timing issue.
Kubby/ Traffic patterns .... same kind of pedestrian flow... not
going to change ....
Davidson/ Other thing, we have had many many requests in this town
for pedestrian signals all over town .... We don't have any
pedestrian actuated, on a pedestrian signal over the road. So
you may be setting a precedent here ....
Kubb¥/ I am talking about a stop light .... to allow pedestrians...
Nov/ I would have no problem having i~ activated by a car as
well ....
Kubby/
Steve Jacobsen/ Could increase the traffic on Melrose Court ....
Davidson/ .... They favored the pedestrian only signal. They did not
favor a traffic control .... What we have proposed right now is
to have the intersection set up, have a signal added .... The
Norton/ ...what do you do down at Grand? .....
Davidson/ We are going to have crosswalks in all directions ....
(refers to map) .....
Kubby/
Jacobsen/ Painted.
Nov/
Davidson/
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WS032596
March 25, 1996
Norton/ Why can't it be incorporated ....
Council Work Session Page 25
in the pavement?
Thornberry/
Davidson/ It is actually a plastic type
street .....
of material put in the
Jacobsen/ Plastic is a little more expensive...
the paint ....
Norton/ ...you can't see them ....
melt it right into
Davidson/ Traffic Engineer is very well aware of that ....
Nov/
If we building a new street... line embedded in the
concrete .... do it on every crosswalk along that area .... I am
talking about some kind of plastic embedded in concrete ....
Kubby/
Jacobsen/ It is probably cheaper for paint ....
Norton/ Anything on the surface gets slippery when wet ....
Nov/ Maybe we should put in a yellow brick line.
Norton/ Are you going to have push button crosswalks at Hawkins?
Jacobsen/ Yes.
Norton/
Davidson/ ...unless you go to all red signal-
Norton/
Davidson/ Given you can't go through to the south, you are talking
about an all red phase ....
Norton/ .... you stop the turners... You can figure it out I guess.
Nov/ You are going to need an all stop... ordinary traffic
signal...
Thornberry/
Nov/
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W$032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26
Kubby/ How far away from traffic book warrants are we for
pedestrian activated lights at Melrose Court and Melrose?
Davidson/ I don't know that it has even been looked at yet ....
What is there right now .... what they use that parking ramp
for... all going to affect the traffic pattern
Kubby/
Jacobsen/
Davidson/
Nov/ Tell me what you are talking about when you say the hospital
putting people out further west.
Jacobsen/ The entrance for the ramp and the Family Clinic ....
aren't sure what kind of access they will have through the
hospital ....
Nov/ ...sounds like it ~s going to be mostly cars coming in and out
at that point.
Jacobsen/ ...that is where they are going to be coming out of the
facility ....
Nov/ Wondering... how many people are going to be on foot when they
come out of that facility .... I think they are going to be in
automobiles.
Lehman/
Kubby/ I feel like we are really confused about crosswalk and
sidewalk .... I am not sure if we made a decision or not.
Lehman/
Kubby/ I am talking about the material for the road for the
crosswalk.
Davidson/ .... I think they are really trying to work on better
paints.
Nov/ If this is on the surface it peels off ....
Fosse/ We have been using the plastic laminates on asphalt
streets .... We can get about six years of life... We have not
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W8032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27
tried them yet on concrete .... Not in this town.
Nov/ What about the Coralville Strip area?
Fosse/ I will check that out.
Nov/
Fosse/
Nov/...paint lasts a good month these days ....
Davidson/ Do you want to direct us one way or another? We have
paint in there now.
Nov/
Kubby/ I think we should try... plastic on concrete.
Norton/ I am for the plastic.
Nov/ I am for the plastic ....
Thornberry/ Paint.
Vanderhoef/ I would like to test it.
Nov/ All right, sounds like plastic.
Thornberry/ How much more expensive?
Fosse/ I don't know ..... good idea to try it... do research.
Kubby/ We decided not to do the pedestrian light, correct?... Put
the conduit in ....
Nov/ Put in conduit, transformers and whatever else ....
Kubby/ Why not do it on the front end ..... ?
Davidson/
Norton/ We are talking about pedestrian
infrastructure for that but not the
Davidson/ I
activated stop light
lights ....
heard majority say do the conduit .... poles in?
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March 25,
Kubby/
Nov/ I
1996 Council Work Session
I am trying to advocate that.
am advocating we put them in, too.
Page 28
Norton/ I am too. I am for the lights.
Nov/ I started out at the beginning saying what we really need here
is a traffic light.
Davidson/ You want a pedestrian light?
Council/ (All talking).
Davidson/ A whole ball of wax is what I am looking at. Okay.
Nov/ Are we going to need a traffic signal for autos as well as for
pedestrians .... or pedestrian only activation?
Council/ Pedestrian only.
Norton/ We don't want to stop traffic twice in that distance ....
Davidson/ ..... So pedestrian only.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-39 SIDE 1
Lehman/ Personally, I would rather see us put in the conduit, open
the street, and see need it. If we need it, we can put the
pole and lights up pretty darn quick ....
Nov/ We have them on Burlington Street.
Norton/ ...These are uniquely controlled by a pedestrian ....
Lehman/ .... I disagree with putting them in before we find out
whether we need them.
Thornberry/ Did he change your mind?
Nov/ I think we have found out that we need them.
Council/ (Okay, all right).
Davidson/ Anything else about the project then. We can go ahead and
let it?
Nov/ Go ahead°
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29
Davidson/ Great. Thanks.
Kubby/ It is pulling teeth to make a decision on anything tonight.
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30
BurlinGton and Gilbert Intersection Reconstruction
Fosse/ I will try and make it easy.
96-39 Sl
Nov/ This one, just go ahead and do it. We don't know enough to
even discuss it.
Fosse/ Burlington and Gilbert intersection? Are you serious?
Norton/ I want to hear that.
Fosse/ We are taking bids tomorrow on the project and also on the
agenda for tomorrow night is an agreement with the DOT to use
city streets for detour of Highway 1 ....
Thornberry/ You are seriously
intersection, aren't you?
considering closing that
Fosse/ Yes we are and that is what I want to discuss tonight .....
Jeff has been out and visited with each of the businesses and
property owners .... has gotten positive... except for one
owner and that is the mini-mart down here, the L&M ..... He
would prefer that the street stay open .... Benefits of just
closing it .... for a 3-4 week period ....
Lehman/ What time of year are we talking about?
Fosse/ The closure would be on the front end of the project ....
Problem for L&M Mart. He would like to keep traffic through
there until after break .... Overall duration of the project
would overall be decreased as well as the cost .... better
quality... improved work zone safety for people out there ....
kind of concerned about complications with the underground
utilities out there, too .... always surprises .... What we
would like to do is by approving this thing tomorrow night,
that starts the process with the DOT to allow this to happen
if it does happen. Our next step .... would be to negotiate
with our contractor to find out of how much is a deduct in
price and how much of a reduction in total working days we can
realize out of this total closure versus doing it as we have
got it proposed. Once we have that information then we can
make a decision whether to do the total closure for 3-4 weeks
or keep going on it as we bid it .... The route-
McClure/ We don't have every scenario worked out .... For Highway 1
traffic .... agreement with DOT .... people traveling from west
to east, they would detour off of Burlington at Linn Street,
head one lock north .... (refers to map) ..... to College all
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WS032596
March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31
the way out to... Governor outgoing. The people coming into
town would come in on Dodge, College, Linn. Local Burlington
Street traffic would go Linn, College, Johnson. Then Gilbert
Street, that is still the same. There is no through access for
Gilbert Street either way. They are going to be going Court,
Linn, and then back to College .... Our general feeling ....
people are going to avoid this at all costs after they hit it
a couple of times .... Benefit to shop owners, it is a draw ....
Thornberry/ Are you telling me that the guy who owns the Quik Trip
on the corner of Burlington and Dubuque Street was all for
closing that intersection?
Fosse/ He wants to get it done quicker.
Thornberry/ Before the college students leave town?
Norton/ They walk through there anyhow, don't they?
Lehman/ During part of this construction they are going to have a
tough time getting across Burlington Street.
Norton/
Thornberry/ They will get across it.
Norton/ Is the church work going to be done? They have been closing
the street part way.
Fosse/ That is an issue. We have a letter from them requesting an
extension of their agreement to use the public r.o.w .... Two
problems .... conflict with this project... they have really
not been very careful about those trees out there ..... They
might have to get everything off from around those trees to
allow them to rebound as best as they can ....
Norton/ You can hardly have that detour and them still taking half
of the street ....
Fosse/ Right now the are just encumbering the parking area.
McClure/ All the corners... we are proposing to remove all ...
parking along the sides of the road .....
Thornberry/
McClure/ Dodge and Governor would become a 4-way stop .... 3-way
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stop ..... Gilbert and College would be a 3-way. College and
Linn would be a 3-way and Burlington and Linn would then be a
3-way .... Rec Center can be accessed from the parking
structure on Washington Street ..... We have to provide access
to Hansen Auto Body ..... all the people in the apartments ....
It is just going to have to be worked out with contractor,
inspector, myself, property owner and whoever to be able to
provide access to them at all times ....
Thornberry/ Could the Mini-mart.. put up temporary signs?
Lehman/ He is right here. He has got access from every direction
except here (refers to map). If this would shorten the project
by 30-40%, it means a lot more to me ....
Thornberry/ ..if it was after the students had left. His busiest
time is going to be in the spring time before the students
leave.
Lehman/ The inconvenience of that street being worked on, whether
or not it is closed, is going to prevent an awful lot of folks
from even going through there ....
Nov/
Thornberry/ (Refers to map) .... Put a sign ....
McClure/ It is being done for every business. Part of our traffic
control plan .... It is right on here. Provide directional sign
for Rec Center, QuikTrip, Hansen Auto Body, Ralston Creek
Apts. and other businesses as necessary .... Happy Joe signs
.... We have got signs for Big Ten Rental, Gilbert Racquet
Master, Sam's Pizza ....
Thornberry/ Mini-mart ....
Norton/ They are prepared to sign everybody that needs to be
signed.
Kubby/ Make sure we haven't missed anybody else.
McClure/
Council/ Good job ....
Thornberry/ ..... now you are coming back and saying we want to
close the intersection.
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 33
Fosse/ We want to be able to negotiate with the contractor. If we
get nowhere with the contractor .... there has got to be a
financial and time advantage for us to do that.
Thornberry/
McClure/ I think what is going to make a difference is if you
choose to go with the brick paving. That is where it gets
sticky. We are going to have to shut it down to get that
in .... We did some utility locates later on and found out the
exact location. The storm sewer is better outlined now. And
just going through these plans... now we are realizing that it
is possible ... better to do it closed ....
Fosse/
Kubby/ Are we putting in bonuses for being done on time?
Fosse/ Bonus to get done early and penalty if you get done late ....
They always finish right on that date without that bonus ....
Saw some real benefits on Rohret Road with that.
Atkins/ You want a confirmation to authorize to renegotiate? How do
you want to do this?
Fosse/ Do you want this back to you after we have negotiated with
the contractor to see if the reduction in working days and
price will offset the inconvenience of the total closure?
Thornberry/ I would like to see that.
Lehman/ I think that is your call ....
Thornberry/ I hate to close an intersection like that before
college is out. I just really really have a problem with
that ....
Nov/ Would you prefer to do it before graduation or would you
prefer to do it before football season?
Fosse/ We thought about delaying the project a little bit ....
people are hungry and we are looking for a good price on this
tomorrow .... get it started for middle of April ....
Norton/
Fosse/ We will prefer a matrix of options for you.
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March 25, 1996 Council Work session Page 34
Nov/ What we are going to see tomorrow night is actual bids?
Fosse/ Bids are opened tomorrow morning. Award will be tomorrow
night and if you like we can negotiate with the contractor and
then get with Steve... are benefits worth it.
McClure/ ..... Regardless of cost... we are going to end up with a
safer environment for the people .... lot easier to
construct... less screw ups... detect any problems... reduce
the amount of delays ....
Thornberry/ .°°just don't like it done before school is out ....
Norton/ I just worry about getting it done in a hurry ....
Thornberry/ What is the hurry of getting it done for July when
there is nobody here?
Lehman/
McClure/ We have given them 72 working days based on a six day work
week. That is four months ..... Burlington will be opened up
again in about a four week period .....
Atkins/ If you bid tomorrow, get your low bidder. Would you
negotiate immediately? Could you be prepared to recommend
tomorrow night, the difference between the two bids? .....
Fosse/ I don't know if the contractor will be able to prepare-
Arkins/ Does the council have to award this bid tomorrow night.
Could we call a special meeting in a couple of days? .....
Fosse/ We could award tomorrow night but not make the decision on
total closure versus partial closure until-
Thornberry/
Atkins/ Right now the bid specs does not deal with this. And low
bidder could say I am not interested and the debate is
done .... If he is interested, report something tomorrow night,
award it ....
Fosse/ I think we can award tomorrow night. Early start date is
April 15th? Next council meeting is April 9th. We could
probably have a price... by then.
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McClure/ The agreement .... at this point the D0T has to say it is
okay. They won't act until you guys have acted .... Whether or
not the DOT is going to approve it is up to them .....
Atkins/ Tomorrow night there is a bid. The agreement is a second
item.
Karr/ Item No. 21 is the agreement. Item No. 22 is the bid.
Atkins/ .... low bidder can still demand .... I don't want to do
this... renegotiate .... He will have complied with the bid ....
Lehman/
Atkins/ Seeing that we should approve the agreement with the DOT to
allow them to begin thinking about it. Approve the low bid.
Follow up at a subsequent council meeting... have this issue
resolved ..... allows everything to keep moving.
Vanderhoef/
McClure/ By voting on the agreement tomorrow night, you will be
signalling them that you are open to the idea of closing it
down ....
Kubby/ Are there any legal problems in someone saying there was a
low bidder? ..... I would have been the low bidder if I would
have had the chance to close it all at once.
Atkins/ My impression is there is always that risk .... we choose to
negotiate something less than that .... We also have change
o~-ders, Karen. It is not uncommon. This is a change order of
some consequence, maybe, we don't know ....
Kubby/ Fairness question comes in. If I had known that was an
option, I may have been the low bidder. Are we at any risk?
Thornberry/ You are going to do this just as quickly as possible to
start the project. Why? Why are we starting just as soon as
possible? ....
Fosse/ ~A~o reasons. Market is ripe for construction right now .....
people are hungry for this. Second one is the allocation of
our staff. We have other projects that are slated for
construction in the fall that I need our people for ....
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Engineering Design Standards 96-39 Sl
Nov/ Rick, postpone and doing design standards again?
Fosse/ No, I will just take two seconds on that .... If you have no
questions, I really have nothing to say there. We just
deferred parts of it for further discussion. I asked that the
storm water management part of it be pulled out because I
wanted to digest what I learned in Madison before we go
changing our regulations and that is where we are at right
now.
Kubby/ For the things that are left in, will we be costing
ourselves significantly more money with standardized standards
or putting more concrete down than we normally would?
Fosse/ The concrete in one of the issues that has been pulled
out .... As far as costs, probably a wash. Somethings got more
expensive, somethings got less expensive .... Up front costs
are only part of it. Life cycle costs, total costs to tax
payer is really at issue here ....
Norton/ I had a couple of questions .... Has it cost us anything to
join forces with the Uniform Code? .... Have we sacrifices
anything in order to accommodate a joint standards?
Fosse/ The biggest change for us to get on board with everybody
else was the pavement width... 28 to 29 on local streets. And
P/Z seems to be very much opposed to that and we are going to
discuss that. There is some discussion of even going
narrower .... Lot of discussions to take place there. As far as
other concessions .... Lot of other communities were looking
for excuses to improve their standards and bring them up to
our level and this unified standard is one means.
Administratively, it looks as if we are not going to have just
one book for all the communities. Each community is going to
have their own book but the format is going to be the same.
The design standards are going to be very similar ....
Administratively, we can't get everybody on the same page at
the same time, year in and year out. We are going to get a lot
of benefit. It is going to be substantially similar but they
are not going to be identical documents.
Norton/ Why are driveways so wide?
Fosse/ People are always asking for wider driveways than what we-
Norton/
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Fosse/ Usually people are coming in and wanting a 36 foot
driveway ....
Norton/
Nov/ You have an old house. People are building three car garages.
Norton/ I think it is ridiculous.
Nov/ We will get a storm water impact fee and we will be all set.
Norton/ ...There are a million things in here that we could
discuss. 2500 cars, a collector street. That is hardly any
cars at all, 2500 a day.
Fosse/ That is a good question for Jeff.
Thornberry/ ...explain this to me. The number of occupants for a
drive-in restaurant shall be considered as equal to the number
of parking stalls. What does that mean?
Fosse/ That is not in the design standards.
Thornberry/ Oh, that is in a different thing. Never mind.
Norton/ ...Why no rolled curbs?
Fosse/ We have had rolled curbs in town on a couple of cul de
sacs .... people end up, they still cut those things out. They
lower it even more .... out snow plow drivers have a hard time
following that around and they end up scraping up the sod and
people's yards .... People parking on the street keep driving
off the edge and rutting it out. That was discussed though.
Nov/ It is much cheaper.
Fosse/ There is another issue there... rolled curbs don't work with
our R8 type intakes ....
Atkins/
Fosse/ On the agenda for tomorrow night is approval of everything
except for those things that are pulled out.
Norton/ What are we going to do then? Just half of them tomorrow
night? Okay.
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 38
Atkins/ If you have a lot of questions, you should be able to ask
them in a more informal environment .....
Fosse/ If you do have a lot of questions, let's pull this thing and
schedule more time.
Norton/ I am worried about 16 foot medians ......
Atkins/
Norton/ I will just give you a list of questions.
Kubby/ How many people have detailed questions on these sections?
Norton/ I can give them to Rick ....
Nov/ You can call him tomorrow and get together ....
Fosse/ Let's do that. Okay.
Nov/ Having a 16 foot median is a good idea because you can put
trees in it.
Fosse/ That is for trees and it also allows room for a turn lane to
go in there at some later date ....
Norton/
Fosse/ Let's visit tomorrow.
Norton/
Nov/
Norton/ I will give you a list.
Nov/ Can we do the appointments first and then get to council time?
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Appointments 96-39 S1
Planning and Zoning commission: Richard Gibson-reappt.
Senior Center Commission: Chevalier Monsanto
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Council Agenda/Time 96-39 Sl
1. Nov/ Do people want to spend some time discussing the proposed
ideas... that Dorothy Paul sent us? I told her that I would at
least ask...
Kubby/ I think we should do it another night.
Thornberry/ I read your letter and I thought it was very
appropriate and I don't see spending any more time on it.
Norton/ ... didn't seem like quite the right context to deal with
them as much as I sympathize with most of them. I thought your
letter was very appropriate.
Vanderhoef/ It was on target.
Kubby/ I disagree. I think we should talk about this but there is
an overwhelming majority.
Norton/ My head was spinning .... I said Dorothy, give me a break.
Kubby/
Norton/ It is pushing us into ideological positions that are far
away from where we need to be.
Nov/
The basic principles here are something we are already
behaving as if as have endorsed them. But what she would like
is a resolution is a resolution that says we support the
following .... So that is what I am asking about.
Kubby/ Iowa City has been invited to become a human rights
community that would be a decade long process that would be
developed by people in town and some of the issues may be
incorporated into that process ....
Norton/ I think we should pull some ideas out of here... very
useful...
Nov/ We would have to have some kind of specific document to vote
on if we want to spend the time discussing this and voting and
adopting.
Kubby/ ...five people said no ....
Kubby/ I didn't know that five people said no. I thought it was
four.
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 41
Kubby/ ...assumption about you because you wrote the letter.
Nov/ I am basically sympathetic to these principles but I am not
sure they are something that we should do as a council.
Thornberry/... They are good principles but I don't think this is
the right forum ....
Norton/
Nov/
I will talk to her and I want everybody to understand that
this is an issue. What we voted on is to not spend anymore
time on it. We were going to do it. We are not going to put it
on the agenda for two weeks from now.
Nov/ Partnering for Progress - Making Waste Work for You
Seminar, Kirkwood Community College, April 10th. Anybody
interested?
3. Nov/ Planning seminar in Des Moines, March 28-29.
Kubby/ We have staff going to some of those things.
Nov/ Same day as what we have going on at Northwest Junior High ....
Staff members will be going to both of those ....
4. Nov/ Tree City USA award and the award comes with invitations to
come to the ceremony... three people... Terry Trueblood .....
It is in Des Moines, April 9, 11:00 to 1:00 PM ..... go and
come back ..... Terry is receiving an award. He has been
selected by Iowa Urban and Community Forestry Council as the
1995 Outstanding Professional of the Year for Urban Forestry
in Iowa .... Terry Robinson .... [ will go if no one else wants
to go .... Maybe Dee V. will go ..... We will go ..... It is
Terry Robinson who will go ....
Nov/ Don't forget we have a meeting on Transit on Wednesday
morning and we have a memo on Transit dated March 13 .... dig
it out and read it ....
Thornberry/ .... I gave half of it away... at the JCCOG meeting...
Karr/ Do you want another copy tomorrow? I will bring some copies
tomorrow.
Nov/ It was a loose memo from a couple weeks ago... dated March
13 ....
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 42
Karr/ I will bring a couple of copies tomorrow.
Nov/ ...I am telling you to dig it out and read it sometime .... two
memos .... ask Marian for another copy .... both are pertinent.
6. Vanderhoef/ I have had two calls on garbage collection problems.
One of them is how do they weigh the garbage ..... And then I
got one today something about a larger over sized garbage
can .... This was a woman and I referred her back to Solid
Waste.
Kubby/ Problem is we have a law that says 35 gallon container .....
We need to decide if we want to discuss that... We already
have the weight question decided in the law.
Norton/
Atkins/ 35 gallon container, 50 pounds.
Kubby/ This woman has a 45 gallon container .....
Nov/ ..... He had two bags that weren't picked up...save them for
next week ....
Kubby/ Will you give us an update tomorrow... with Floyd about the
45 gallon.
Atkins/ ¥eah .....
Kubb¥/ Although he is leaving town tomorrow morning.
7. Vanderhoef/ I also have a letter similar to the Bud Louis letter
that is in our packet on the jet memorial out at the airport
saying that this is truly a memorial to veterans... and for
the Airport commission to take it upon themselves to move it
or to give it to Green Castle .....
Nov/
Vanderhoef/ ...the conversation was we don't want it here and we
understand that Green Castle would like very much to have it
and why don't we give it to them ....
Atkins/
Burnside/ At the most recent conumission meeting, Mr. Louis appeared
and expressed his concern and the commission didn't indicate
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any great eagerness to do anything with Old Jet .... I will be
surprised if Old Jet goes any place.
8. Vanderhoef/ I will defer conversation about the John Carver...
when Larry is here. I gave Steve some materials that I had
mailed out to me.
Vanderhoef/ I saved or earned some money for the city while I
was at the convention. I dropped my card in the hat and I won
a half day seminar .... Kirkwood campus, Iowa City campus, last
week .... had a conversation with Becky Lynch ....
10. Vanderhoef/ You are going to talk about the $50 rent for public
housing? Is that on your list?
Kubby/ That is just kind of sitting there.
11.
Vanderhoef/ Yes, your answer to your question about policy
guidelines for travel. I would appreciate whatever you would
like to put out for us.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-39 SIDE 2
12.
Vanderhoef/ Let me run through my list. I like John Gross's
idea of doing something about the young adult grade school
kids and free bus passes if they have a- I liked that idea
very much.
13. Vanderhoef/ Something came up, Victoria Stevens called and left
a message on my machine... how to collect the money for the
Jazz Fest .... Victoria Stevens .... working with Ginsberg ....
I have not called her back .... Conversations in budget time,
there was some discomfort... how to monitor or say how we
wanted that money used if we were the people putting it out
versus the CVB .... I don't know whether anybody has any
feelings.
Kubby/ ...want to see your total budget .... is how it was said.
Vanderhoef/ It was sort of spacey on what kind of material we got
on that.
Norton/ I am not quite following on what is happening. Does this
have to do with CVB moneys?
Vanderhoef/ No. This is straight out from the Jazz Fest.
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 44
Kubby/ Yeah but what are you suggesting we do differently? I don't
understand.
Vanderhoef/ Ask for a better accounting of how they spend the
money.
Norton/ He did come back with kind of an odd list.
Vanderhoef/ I just wondered if, as a group, we would like to say
this is what we like to see accountable for how you spent the
money that we give you for both Jazz Fest and for Arts Fest.
Kubby/ Only if we do that for ICAD and every other group. We need
to be consistent .... This might be a very good idea .....
Norton/
Vanderhoef/ I am putting it out there for future agenda item or
whatever we want to do with it. Okay? That's it.
14.
Kubby/ A couple of letters here from the state archeologist
about Napoleon Park that I was hoping that somehow this got to
Marian but the guy spelled her name wrong in the e-mail
world .... You can read it this weekend. basically, I
believe .... we need to communicate better ..... future
projects... when we know there are archeological sites, we
need to be better prepared on the front end so this kind of
stuff doesn't happen and there are resources available for us.
Atkins/ I don't agree with a lot of what he has to say.
Kubby/ I would like some public discussion about this tomorrow
night ..... It is always so interesting to me...to hear
different perspectives... I don't think... I don't want to
rehash this many inches was dug up... I want to ...how we can
do better next time... prepared on the front end .... insure
that our process is really good.
Atkins/ I will tell you right now I don't think you can guarantee
that.
Kubby/ We know that we don't have to wait until we are ready to
have machinery out there to see how significant archeological
sites are... do some testing now... to know the magnitude of
what we need to do for the next construction season.
Thornberry/ ...know that there are some buried people... where we
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Council Work Session
Page 45
are going to dig the wells .....
Norton/ In principle .... let them know ....
Atkins/ Sensitive Areas Ordinance wasn't an issue on that.
Kubby/ It will be for the water plant .....
Nov/
Some of these technical studies have been done in the
past ..... just that the Corps of Engineers suddenly discovered
that these things existed.
Kubby/ ...know the significance of the site .... being more acutely
aware of where the sites are... and how potentially
significant they are. Do that on the front end instead of
during the digging time .....
Thornberry/ Are you going to be bringing this up tomorrow night?
Kubby/ In some form .... look to the future .... My focus is how do
we do the best we can for the rest of the sewer plant and the
water plant ....
Thornberry/ ..to bring
gotten past that...
way to go .....
the whole thing up... now that we have
letting sleeping dog lie might be the best
Kubb¥/ I feel we could have done some things better and differently
Thornberry/ ...I think the city does the best they can with the
understanding of what they got in front of them.
Kubb¥/ .... stuff I might be mentioning.
15. Kubby/ There are a couple of people on First Avenue who are...
upset about easement documentation and information was given
to them in terms of the First Avenue Project ..... and they
were told it was in the document that they would have ten days
to look it over to sign it .... not happy about some of the
details in it .... I guess I would like us to look into that a
little bit.
Burnside/ It is already under review.
Kubby/ I just want to make sure people have a comfortable amount of
time to make some big decisions about how their property is
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 46
going to be affected.
16. Kubby/ (f(6)CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING MINIMUM MONTHLY
RENT (TOTAL TENANT PAYMENT) OF $25.00 FOR FAMILIES
PARTICIPATING IN THE PUBLIC HOUSING PROGRAM.) I guess I do
want to have some discussion tonight...about the $50 thing.
Atkins/ I am going to have to defer to Dale. I didn't do this
agenda.
Helling/ Originally the question of $50-it was suggesting putting
it on to set a p.h .... $25 is mandatory for both and that is
why they are both on there. The question of $50 was something
that was suggested by staff and rejected by HCD Commission ....
Final decision was you can talk now or later about the $50 and
whether you want to do the $50. There is only one family, one
tenant that is affected by that. So you could make it
retroactive to April 1 is you want. The important thing was to
get it on for the $25 bump for both of them because that is
mandatory to be done by HUD by April 1.
Kubby/ So the resolution is just for the $25 on both?
Helling/ On each one, that is correct. I will double check with
Doug. He was going to check with HUD and find out if there
were any windows that we had to meet .... effective whatever
date you want to and I will have to check with him.
Nov/ These items are in the Consent Calendar.
Vanderhoef/
Helling/ I will let you know tomorrow night what your options are.
Kubby/ I wouldn't want to make that retroactive.
17. Kubby/ Dee Norton had brought up this idea of a tour of the
peninsula and water plant sites. Any movement on that?
Atkins/ Weather breaks-
Council/
Atkins/ As soon as the weather breaks we will schedule it.
18. Kubby/ .... If anybody is interested in signing on an ad that
will be published in the DI the second week in April for
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 47
Community members to support the right of graduate student
employees to organize. You can sign onto that if you so
choose.
19. Arkins/ Can I ask you a question? What did you bowl?
Kubby/ 103 or something.
Norton/ On the Bowl for Kids.
Kubby/ I can't remember. I ended really strong .... We had a couple
of vagrant people come and join our team ....
Norton/ I wanted to bowl one... in my stocking feet.
Kubby/ Dick Myers came in, too... he is a good bowler.
20.
Norton/ I wanted to report a couple of things. I also was at
the Kirkwood Workshop with Dee and Dean and chaired one of the
little groups... discussing what they could do in the way of
meeting their mission and they were concerned about training
..... for service jobs right here in Iowa city .... Also we
empathized that daycare at their place would be a very nice
thing .... They need daycare seriously there.
21.
Norton/ I also spent a lot of time Friday ...at the Science
Center discussion with good presenters.°. big thing... Science
Center .... they want the Science Center... connected with IMAX
Theater .... that is what brings in the money to pay the
operating costs for the science centers .... they need a good
deal of space ....
22. Norton/ I am very interested in the League of Cities thing
coming up .....
23. Norton/ I had a couple of letters from people in Galway ....
give them to the Clerk.
Nov/ We did get them and they are going to be in the next agenda
book.
24.
Norton/ I had a couple of calls also about recycling ..... I
thought the information was pretty clear about how to handle
that recycling thing.
Kubby/ Much improved.
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 48
Norton/
25. Norton/ I think we ought to get a policy together about where
we are going to notify archaeologists and historical people
and so forth ..... complicated .... In principle it seems that
any time you are close to the river that is going to be a
clue ....
Atkins/ I spent a lot of time today-
Norton/
26. Norton/ I wanted to emphasize this back billing policy that is
in the packet .....
Nov/ I expect those people to come for council time... public
discussion tomorrow.
Kubby/ Do we want to discuss how we want to respond? ....
Nov/ Same issue we heard last time from Anna Buss.
Kubby/ Do we want to do more?
Nov/ We can change the policy but I certainly don't want to do that
tomorrow night.
Norton/ I think we ought to re-visit it because I do think it is
time .... we ought to know how many dwelling units there are.
Nov/
I think we have a decent computer now that could cross check
permits for rental units and billing for water and waste
pickup. We could do this .....
Kubby/ Do a cleaning of the house to make sure we have done
everything .... amnesty those people... keep the policy as is
but make sure we clean house and let it go ....
Thornberry/ I don't think we ought to back bill.
Nov/ I think we ought to not discuss this tonight. Put it on the
agenda a couple of weeks from now. Okay, Steve?
Norton/ Discuss this back billing. It also comes down to housing
inspection in general .... Wonder when did things go into
affect? When do they apply? ..... Get more consistency ....
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Vanderhoef/ Is it a question the inspector asks? Is it on the check
sheet?
Norton/ Maybe we need to look at out inspection process.
Atkins/ Just so you understand, not everyone shares that view. A
neighborhood in particular is hammering us for being too
lenient .... We get it from ends ....
Norton/ I am just saying that is we have gone into affect with some
rule, it needs to be implemented promptly.
Atkins/ I need to have you debate that.
Nov/ I am trying to urge us to not debate it tonight.
27. Kubby/ I was very nervous about us voting on the UBC and fire
stuff without us talking about it... specific questions.
talked to Ron Boose .... My big questions were things like what
are the things we are adding here that are going to increase
the cost of building new construction and he is going to come
here .... tomorrow night... Also something in here that
decrease the cost of construction. I said end on that point.
28. Nov/ I found one more letter in here... opportunity... attend
a banquet for Bethany Church of Iowa City. This is a $25 a
person dinner which covers a variety of entertainment .....
Horowitz... did a proclamation at a city council meeting and
I told him that I would do a proclamation at the next city
council meeting and I would not attend the dinner. He said
will you send somebody else .... If anyone here would like to
go to this dinner .... fund raiser .... I did not go beyond
telling him that we can do a proclamation ..... April 19 ....
The pastor will come ....
29.
Norton/ I want to mention at a meeting on Emergency
Preparedness .... nice talk with lady who district was in
Oklahoma ..... I did pick up quite a bit of interesting
information .....
Kubby/ Disaster planning... think the worst.
Atkins/ (Can't hear) ....
Norton/ Neighborhood associations .....
30. Nov/ City staff and Telecommunications Commission are working
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March 25, 1996 Council Work Session
on public access agreements and PATV ....
process.
Page 50
The agreement is in
31. Karr/ One thing ... we have got some scheduling conflicts that
may be shaping up in the next few months. If any of you- I
know some of you have given me some tentative dates to be out
of town... let us know ....
32. Nov/ Oh, and we wanted to schedule a meeting with ICAD sometime
around the end of April.
Arkins/ I am going to see them on Wednesday.
Nov/... try and pin down a date ..... last week of April looked
relatively open.
Thornberry/ Is there a meeting 16th of April?
Karr/ No.
Adjourned: 11:05 PM
Thls;aptesants only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of Match 25,1996.
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