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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-03-25 TranscriptionMarch 25, 1996 Council Work Session 8:25 PM Council: Nov, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Absent: Baker. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Burnside, Franklin, Davidson, Gannon, Fosse, McClure. Tapes: 96-38, all; 96-39, all. Review Zoning Matters 96-38 S1 [NOTE: TAPE PROBLEMS ITEMS A. and B.] a.Consider setting a public hearing for April 9, 1996, on Amendments to city Code Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article J, "Overlay Zones," by creating a new overlay zoning district entitled "Design Review Overlay Zone." b. Consider setting a public hearing for April 9 on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to change the use regulations of a 1.88 acre tract from RR-1, Rural Residential, to RS-5, Low Density Single-Family Residential for property located at 3263 Rohret Road. (REZ96-0003) c. Public hearing on a resolution to amend the Comprehensive Plan to incorporate an amendment to the JCCOG Arterial Street Plan which includes Oakdale Boulevard. Franklin/ P.h. on a resolution to amend the Comp Plan to incorporate amendment to the arterial street plan which includes Oakdale Blvd. I am not going to talk about this now. It is on another time in your agenda. d. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by changing the use regulations of an approximate .14 acre parcel located at 24 N. Van Buren Street from RM-44, High Density Multi- Family Residential, to R/O, Residential/Office. (REZ95-0016) Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to rezone property at 24 North Van Buren .... RM-44 to R/O. Kubby/ (Can't hear). Vanderhoef/ Looks like they are already working on it. They are doing some grading there. Franklin/ Issue here. This is a small piece (refers to map). It will extend the R/O zone to this ..... Usually a small lot is Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil msetlng of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 2 not appropriate for rezoning. This is contagious to an R/O zone. This is a house just north of the alley...north of the Credit Union and the intention is to use this for an office (refers to map). The issue at P/Z Commission was whether sufficient parking could be provided on the lot before it was rezoned ..... If it couldn't comply with the parking then it was not reasonable then to fezone it for a more intensive use. This is a conceptual site plan which has seven parking spaces. Only six are required but a handicapped space has been placed in the required front yard. This will require a minor modification that is done administratively. If that does not succeed, then this will just be pushed back and there will be six spaces and a more substantial ramp would have to be put in here. It is possible .... recommend of P/Z and staff is to rezone this property. Kubby/ Wasn't there kind of a hill that goes right to the alley? Franklin/ That is going to be cut out. Right there (refers to map) ..... Kubby/ Franklin/ Norton/ This is just p.h. at this point. Franklin/ That is right. First consideration won't be on until the 9th. e. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article H, "Industrial Zones," to allow the outdoor storage of recyclable materials in the I-1 zone as an accessory use to a recycling processing facility by special exception. (Second consideration) Franklin/ Second consideration on the recyclable in I-1 zone, the outdoor storage. f. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," to allow temporary real estate sales centers in residential zones. (Second consideration) Franklin/ Second consideration on temporary real estate sales centers in residential zones. g. Consider an ordinance amending the Conditional Zoning Agreement Thlsrepresellts only are~onably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 3 for the D&L Subdivision, located southeast of the intersection of Highway 1 and Sunset Street, to eliminate the requirement to provide access to property to the south. (REZ96-0002) (Second consideration) Franklin/ Second consideration on the amending the CZA for D&L Subdivision. This is the access easement. Expedited action has been requested. h. Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat for Newport Ridge Subdivision, a 12-lot, 25.5 acre residential subdivision located on Newport Road, 1/4 mile east of its intersection with Prairie du Chien Road. (SUB96-0001) Franklin/ Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat in Johnson County for Newport Ridge. This is a preliminary plat. (Refers to plat). Issues here had to do with access points on Newport Road because there is a curve here. The entire subdivision is consistent with the Fringe Agreement. It is in Area 3...targeted for residential development in the county. (Refers to plat). The subdivision of this property does minimize additional access points on Newport Road. There really weren't any issues with this subdivision. Everything has been resolved. The grading plan has been approved and so it is recommended for approval. Kubby/ So they are staying away from the wet areas? Franklin/ Yes. Kubby/ It was helpful for me to see in the staff report that the intent of the Sensitive Areas Ordinance... Norton/ Outlots- Franklin/ Outlot D (refers to plat) includes an existing pond and C... is open space... consequence of the road going in. Those will be maintained by the homeowners association... specified. Vanderhoef/ There was a wooded area also .... Franklin / In outlot C ..... (refers to plat). Thornberry/ It is a pretty location. i. Consider a recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission approving the proposed east alignment for the extension of Highway This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the low8 City council meeting of March 25, 1996. W$032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 4 965. Franklin/ The last item is Highway 965. Also an item that we have pulled out of the agenda to talk about separately and Jeff is going to start with Oakdale Blvd. Kubby/ Is Galway Hills going to be on our next meeting or the meeting after? Franklin/ Galway Hills should be on the next one if delineation is all worked out. That is what we for. the wetlands are waiting Thlsrepresent~ only8 reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelow8 Cl~ council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 5 Arterial Street Plan - Oakdale Blvd. 96-38 Sl Davidson/ Item 6c. on your P/Z items tomorrow night is a p.h. on a resolution to amend the Comp Plan to add the extension of Oakdale Blvd .... between First Avenue Coralville and County Road W66 which is Dubuque Street Extended .... we have got a couple of parallel same issues going on in a couple of parallel places. On Wednesday, the JCCOG Urbanized Area Policy Board of which five of you are representatives will be considering the amendment to the JCCOG Arterial Street Plan ..... three of you in addition to Henry Herwig and Don Sehr and myself took a look at the property out here ..... helpful to see lay of the land. JCCOG will be considering that matter on Wednesday .... knowing JCCOG takes action .... which way they go when you consider it on the 9th as a Comp Plan amendment. The reason that we are going through this sort of two stage deal is that the JCCOG Arterial Street Plan is adopted as the arterial street planning element of the Iowa City Comp Plan .... In addition to the many public comments you received already, we had a hearing at JCCOG last time and there was some good discussion. There were two recommendations that had been received... Iowa City P/Z Commission recommends on a vote 5-1 to approve this proposed amendment. the JCCOG Transportation Technical Advisory Committee also unanimously voted to recommend approval of this with the stipulation that this be proposed segment be constructed to urban design standards .... I think if and when this road gets built it will be built either by Coralville or Iowa city to urban standards. The staff report you received ..... The reasons that this is under consideration- Coralville has asked for the proposed amendment to the JCCOG Arterial Street Plan... they want to have this in place ..... r.o.w. reserved for this road. They also would like to have this end of it (refers to map) ..... this is the part that would eventually be part of Iowa City .... That the corridor in the mean time be preserved .... Final thing, Coralville has stated that they don't want to build their part of the road if it is not ever going to go anywhere .... Consideration of whether or not there should ever be a street through here .... This is essentially step one of what I characterized as a three step process of building a road. 1- Put it in the plan; 2- Do a study of the engineering and the environmental factors, the alignment study .... 3-.... For you all to decide if you want to allocate public funds or work with the private developer to construct. You do have control of that final stage if and when it ever gets constructed. Kubby/ For Coralville, if we would say no or if JCCOG would say no Thisrepresents only areasonebly accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 6 and or Iowa City would say no, and they had residential or commercial development and a school in this area .... they would certainly build a street for traffic circulation. Davidson/ ...There was discussion if only a collector street were built through here .... it will probably start carrying some arterial traffic... If we start getting people going through the area... that is arterial type traffic ..... They don't want to construct on a 100 foot r.o.w. an arterial type street with limited access from development if it is not going to go anywhere. Norton/ But when you say go anywhere, you mean to W66. The problem is they could get there by a very circuitous route that would be less attractive and still have that access... between Ridge Road and First Avenue and W66 .... trying to figure out who is going to use this precisely .... Trying to think about is there through traffic that needs to get there. Davidson/ The issue, Dee, is that if you construct a series of collector streets .... if that is the only way through this area... between north coralville and the rest of Iowa City, eventually people are going to figure our how to get through if that is the only way. If you build this street and also have collector streets .... then you don't run into that problem. Norton/ Will there be houses on the south side of that extension? Davidson/ No. Norton/ Who is paying for that side? Davidson/ It is similar to any arterial street. It would eventually get built if we are talking about Coralville parts because that is where most of the development would be by either City of Coralville funds or working with private developers .... I think in Coralville Comp Plan they have shown some neighborhood commercial type on south side but even that, Dee, is speculative... Nov/ Is there no way to put that road further north? Davidson/ That got discussed also at JCCOG .... mixed opinions... by going up the hill (refers to map) there is very pull horizontal site distance ..... Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscri~lon ofthelowaCltycouncll meetlngof March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 7 Kubby/ Nov/ He was talking about the current proposal. He wasn't talking about something else. Davidson/ (Refers to map). He lives about right there, north of the existing Northwood Estates .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ Yes, there is a place for north... that you can come in clear at the top end of the property .... one property owner up there. It comes out just north of where the dam road is .... Davidson/ (Refers to map). That is Rustic Ridge Road .... Vanderboef/ .... so there is another route there that is not cutting into any new virgin territory and it is very rugged there .... It does appear to be very very rugged... ravines... The road that is up there seems like a real good solution and would service a lot of people from the whole north corridor. Kubby/ .... 1-80 is so close...why invest in any further development? Vanderhoef/ ...Like Jeff has said, we don't have the topography and the cost... It is going to take considerable changing of the terrain to bring it up higher .... Kubby/ ...If this other road that is to the north... How does that change your viewpoint about 1-807 Vanderhoef/ The Oakdale Blvd. area, you mean? Kubby/ By having the road more northerly .... Vanderhoef/ I am confused because there is no ..... that is way north of where we are talking. She is talking opposite the dam road .... Steward Road. Vanderhoef/ (Refers to map). Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ The road that is there is real possible without using the Oakdale Extension. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032595 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 8 Norton/ I guess I don't understand the road that is there .... Rustic Ridge is the only road that I know of. Davidson/ Rustic Ridge Road is the one that she is talking about. It goes between .... North Liberty Road and W66...short section. Norton/ It is not a realistic option for Oakdale. Davidson/ That becomes the option is what Dee was trying to say. Norton/ It would take them half way to North Liberty to get into Iowa City. Vanderhoef/ It would be servicing a different group of people .... north corridor people which Oakdale Blvd. would not service those people ..... dam road people and River Hts. would have an option... Jeff, when you gave the figures of the additional 1,000 to 2,000 cars that would be dumping onto Dubuque Street- Davidson/ (Refers to map). Vanderhoef/ Were you factoring in the 600 plus houses that are being planned for this property where Oakdale Blvd. is coming through? Davidson/ I assume .... we did have some type of residential development .... It was factored in to some degree but I can't tell you exactly what houses ..... modeling...too many factors involved. We can give a rough idea. Norton/ I started kind of reluctant .... I guess I am- Nov/ This was meant to connect Coralville to Iowa City. Norton/ .... Davidson/ ...Important consideration for Coralville... that there be additional connections between Coralville and Iowa City. Norton/ Without having to go down First Avenue. Davidson/ That is Coralville's growth area. Norton/... got to look at this thing in a more comprehensive way .... This represents only s reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25° 1996. W$032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 9 Kubby/ To me, if you buy the desire to connect our communities more, there is always these trade-offs. Why not use 1-807 .... instead of tearing up a beautiful place .... It is a resource that is there. Norton/ This is going to be developed anyhow. They have already got the sewer manholes into this property .... That hill is going to be developed for sure... almost over to W66 .... Thornberry/ The last third goes through private property... cannot be developed to north and south as far as Iowa City is concerned. It would have to be condemned .... for the road. What is north of the proposed road... the wet-? Norton/ The quarry is only on the south of the road. Thornberry/ They bought north. Davidson/ Part of the alignment study would be taking a look at this area .... that will impact on what eventually might be done. We have had inquiries about commercial development possibly in this area .... Thornberry/ Did Iowa River Products buy north of that proposed road? Davidson/ I heard the same thing you did that River Products did buy additional property in this area. I haven't seen that delineated. Vanderhoef/ Dee .... resources. I am looking at a second resource and that is our federal dollars for highway and when we start putting the money to put six lanes into that federal highway, 1-80, and 3/4 of a mile from there say we want federal moneys again to put an arterial in. I think that is poor use of our money. Norton/ To use interstate, that st~11 puts pressure on Dubuque Street .... Kubby/ Norton/ I find it a very tough question... does it make it a more decent connection between the two communities? .... Maybe it has more virtues to them than us, I don't know. Kubby/ Any other reaction from the visit? Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlon ofthalowa Citycouncil meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 10 Thornberry/ The people that live in the north corridor have an option of either going down the interstate and going across to Coralville .... Coralville... their core city is going to be south of 1-80. We have already seen that published in the paper .... They are currently using- When I go to Coralville from West Overlook, I go north, up across and come down. It is real close. 1/4 mile is not very far .... I would like to see us have the money for Scott Blvd. Extension, for other things that we have got going in Iowa City. The only reason to extend that road over to W66 is .... well, I don't know exactly. Norton/ Certainly access for those people .... 600 houses that he is talking about .... They can get in and out with small roads. Lehman/ I don't have a particular problem with it. I am not sure there has to be an arterial .... Seems a 100 foot r.o.w. is a pretty good swath to be taken through there. Maybe that is appropriate, I don't know. Davidson/ .... 100 feet gets you initially a two lane street .... Vanderhoef/ One other conversation that this council has not had at this point that makes me uneasy... is still what area we are talking about for annexation? Franklin/ I am thinking about how I would react .... Comments...this area is going to develop anyway. If it is in fact going to develop anyway and there are roads that are connecting First Avenue to W66, there will be something... functions as an arterial... If this were happening in the city, I would want to see some provision there where there would be a road that would function and would be built as an arterial to handle that traffic and not have it be working its way through the neighborhood or through the River Hts. area .... Comes down to whether you believe that the area is going to develop or not because if it is going to develop, I think you need to have that connection... for people in Iowa City to get to Coralville, too ..... My first reaction .... we are going to have to upgrade Dubuque Street because of all of this traffic .... This really is looking at a street network for the Iowa City-Coralville area and more we are into that .... This is an area that we could look at for annexation of those 700 acres that we have north of 1-80 .... the amount is determined by the capacity in the River Corridor Trunk but it doesn't necessarily mean that the 700 acres has to be here in this area. It could be to the east .... just shouldn't be more than the 700 acres if we are going to use the plans that we have Thisrepresents only ereesonably accuratetranscriptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 11 for the sewage treatment plant. Kubby/ I agree with the general concept of making sure people can get back and forth between the cities. But in this particular area, how critical is it? Franklin/ That is where it comes back to is it going to develop anyway? .... Do we want to have some control if it does... we will be reviewing subdivisions in this area .... We are going to have to face the questions of street layouts and what it is going to be like...what standards? Kubby/ If the land that would be the connector... is owned by a private entity .... Franklin/ That is a piece I don't know about as to who owns it. Kubby/ If it is not going to connect unless we condemn, uses on either side of it. Franklin/ So far I view this in terms of is there and should there be a connection between First Avenue and W66 and not exactly where it is .... If River Products ownership is so extensive... that becomes a factor. Nov/ If you are going to put in residential development, I think it makes better sense to put that road in further north and have residences on both sides of it. Davidson/ This is something the property owner of that property is not in favor of that. He stated that to us. Karin, Coralville understands that scenario that you gave and is comfortable with it. That there has to be a lot of things happen before the part of the road in Iowa City would get constructed. All they want is some assurance that some day there will be a road there so that when they put there ~nvestment into the 2/3's on their side, that some day through the political process, there would at least be consideration .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ There is nothing that says we can't call it an arterial if it is further north. Davidson/ Vanderhoef/ Thisrepresents only areasonabiy accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 12 Thornberry/ To get funds I think they need to have it connect to. Franklin/ If it is just between First Avenue and W66 somewhere up there, it is not going to have the arterial traffic it would have if it were an extension of 0akdale because you are connecting W66 to 965. Norton/ Won't we need... wouldn't Iowa City want to expand its growth area... so you have even more leverage on the nature of development at the potential intersection of W66 and this extension .... I think we would want to extend our growth area. Franklin/ As we are working through the comprehensive planning process now over this calendar year, one of the issues that we have is that 700 acres. We have got to identify it .... We have got to see where we want to be north of 1-80, if we want to be. Norton/ A lot of that is in the Coralville growth area .... Vanderhoef/ ...like to have a conversation about our 700 acre area of what we are considering annexing .... Kubby/ We might say no now and say after we have done our Comp Plan update we might want to revisit the issue. Vanderhoef/ That is where I am .... I would like to postpone this whole decision until we have got a chance to look at that. Franklin/ Does the annexation of property determine whether you think it would be a good idea to have a connection or not? Or can you make that determination about the extension independent of where the property is, whose jurisdiction it is under? Norton/ I think you could .... very concerned about the nature of development at the junction .... Davidson/ The three of you were out there. Where we stood on Mr. Pratt's land, on that hill... that ravine is this one (refers to map). That goes up and hits W66 I think just south of Mr. Pratt's little sliver. I believe all of his is in the Coralville area .... It will be sewered .... Anything else on this before the hearing tomorrow night? Norton/ What do we take to the hearing? Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. W$032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Nov/ We are going to listen, that is all we tomorrow. Davidson/ It is up to the Page 13 are going to be doing board to determine as they vote on Wednesday. Coralville is expecting a vote but that is for you all to decide. Thornberry/ JCCOG, on Wednesday? Norton/ They are hoping to vote. They are trying to get an application in. Nov/ Norton/ I appreciate the deferring .... Thornberry/ Does Iowa City vote as a body at JCCOG? Nov/ No, individuals? Kubby/ How many total votes are there at JCCOG? Davidson/ 5. Kubby/ JCCOG? Davidson/ 11. Anything else? Move on to 965. Kubby/ .... repeat earlier questions... Franklin/ Is annexation a determining factor of whether it is a good idea to have this connection between the two communities? Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Ci~ council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 14 Hiqhwav 965 Alignment 96-38 Sl Davidson/ Item #6i on your agenda under P/Z items tomorrow is to consider a recommendation of the P/Z Commission to approve the east alignment for the extension of Highway 965 between Highway 6 and Highway 1. To use the example...three phases of developing a new road, this is phase 2 .... the issue is do you favor the east or west alignment of this proposed extension? What you are doing... indicate the impacts of one decision versus the other. The City of Coralville has already formally adopted the west alignment as their preferred alignment. If you also adopt the west alignment, what you would be doing is authorizing the mayor to enter into an agreement jointly with Johnson County and Coralville that the west alignment is the adopted alignment for this extension .... It is up to Coralville individually with Coralville and Iowa City individually with Iowa City to actually construct or have constructed portions of that road. If you adopt the east alternative...authorizing to continue negotiations with City of Coralville .... subcommittee .... Coralville has not taken a position on the east alignment .... The County is part of this (refers to map)...orange line is that same annexation agreement ..... is what eventually would be City of Coralville .... (Refers to map) ..... This summer the City of Coralville will be reconstructing this intersection in conjunction with the new mall. They will be reconstructing that ..... Most of you are familiar with the alignment study that was done .... Two alternatives here were screened from 36... ones that have the least environmental impact and can be engineered .... You have a memo from Karin detailing some of the growth area boundary issue in this area .... As much information you can give me at this point as to which way you are heading with this .... would be helpful. Nov/ I would like to go back to the complete study... summary here. The summary tells us something like there are three more acres of slopes... of wetlands but it doesn't give us the total. If the total is four and we are adding 3 more acres, that is significant. If the total is 20 and we are adding three more acres, that isn't. Do we know? Davidson/ Sure, we do know and I can check and find that out .... the decision has been made that there should be a road through here. So the question that you are faced with is what is the way to do that with the least amount of damage to the environment and what you are seeing are the two alignments that do that. Certainly I can try and recover that information for you. This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 15 Nov/ Well, I was trying to make the comparisons here and the only comparison we can make very specifically is the difference in cost. Davidson/ Which is about a wash. Nov/ $715,000 difference here. Davidson/ That, I would emphasize, is an estimate of- I am considering those two numbers .... a wash... because it is an estimate that is not based on actually constructing it but just on general type. I wouldn't take that as being that great of a distinction. Norton/ Is Deer Creek just completely out of the question? ..... Davidson/ .... The reasons that Deer Creek Road goes around like this right now (refers to map) .... relocated when the interstate went in. There are three reasons that that was not considered a favorable alternative, Dee. One was the consultant was given this intersection... wanted it to tie in with Highway 965. The other thing is if you take that location as a given, you have to build a lot more road in order to swing over to that and then get on that alignment .... You are building a lot more road. The third factor was by the time you change the horizontal and vertical- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-38 SIDE 2 Half of the street, you have a mess with existing driveways along there .... Those three factors... we didn't consider that a good alternative. Norton/ But you are going to have three roads in a line here, right? Davidson/ From Camp Cardinal (refers to map) to Deer Creek is probably roughly a mile .... The intention then is Camp Cardinal would be basically a collector street. (Refers to map) ..... Deer Creek is an existing and improved road .... Coralville's Comp Plan calls for some fairly elaborate things out there .... Norton/ .... I feel ponderous again .... Would it give us fits in the west alignment... Kubby/ Changes... our city boundaries go along natural lines so Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthslowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 16 that water flows in a natural way. Norton/ But we have violated that so many times, Karen ..... We have got a Highlander lift station... Hawkeye lift station... Rohret Road lift station .... Kubby/ All those things were areas of town that were built before we were doing comprehensive planning. Norton/ Not Highlander... not Rohret Road... Kubby/ We agreed to put them in but they were places within the city limits already .... trying to become more efficient... instead of having water run uphill. Franklin/ In the 60's we annexed a lot of land and I don't know all of the history .... finally came to an agreement... Lift stations that we have are a consequence of serving areas within the corporate limits and once someone is within the corporate limits we do have certain obligations and we try to meet those obligations... I don't know now the issue is one of lift stations or not .... Lift stations now are mechanically better than they were years ago and so in terms of the cost of them and the engineering it is not as big as an issue as it use to be but it is a convenient planning tool to use water sheds .... make decisions about growth... capitol improvements .... Try to keep some...managing the community, managing how is grows in some fashion .... Norton/ What I am looking at is the question of how to make a decent boundary .... a defined edge and try to move in some way towards that... so that you knew when you were in the country .... Therefore I am looking at which way that could be managed .... Franklin/ In terms of making this alignment decision, the importance of it is...implications of the decision... There isn't a remarkable difference between the east and west alignments .... 1/2 mile .... The consequence comes more in terms of what you then do with this outline that has been adopted of the growth area of the city. Kubby/ Although that 1/2 mile has a lot of implications to city services .... solid waste... transit .... Franklin/ That is a consequence then of making a decision to change the growth boundaries .... The more arbitrary that line is, the This mpresentsonly araasonably accuratetranscriptlon ofthelowa City councilmeeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 17 more difficult it is for it to stand the test of time and for other councils to understand the rationale .... The existing corporate boundary here .... has a little bubble that comes out here is the consequence of the water shed and existing corporate boundary. If we then go to the next water shed, this is where we are looking at (refers to map)...about two miles out .... rough line .... However, you could use the westerly alignment of 965 as a line .... roadways typically don't define the boundaries of cities .... They provide access .... You then provide the other facilities such as sewer .... and that is where you get into the water shed issue. You can make the decision to stop there. Norton/ Since you don't have the logical boundaries of grade there .... maybe the road ...zoning on both sides of that road .... Franklin/ And we did that on Slothower Road. Norton/ Franklin/ Look at Slothower Road. We annexed 300 feet west of Slothower road to do exactly what you said and now we are talking about going beyond .... It is ID-RS now .... Norton/ Franklin/ .... When we did Scott Blvd., we did 300 feet east of Scott Blvd. and now we have got our corporate boundaries out considerably beyond Scott Blvd. So that is going to happen and the trick is to find the line that you can live with for awhile ..... Norton/ Depends on the zoning along those roads and what you approve in the way of subdivisions along those roads. Franklin/ That changes with time and pressures to develop. Norton/ NOV/ Somebody is going to come along and say we have got a road and some sewer lines... Franklin/ If you can withstand the political pressures of the demands for development .... Norton/ Thisrepresents only aressonaEy accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18 Franklin/ It is not easy at all .... Norton/ Kubby/ What has happened .... recognizable change in density really means sprawl, not a defined line .... That means the county saying no to some things ..... For me, assuming that the question should there be a road here has been decided, the east alternative seems more attractive to me except for having the bridge in Iowa City .... Franklin/ Davidson/ We have been sort of forecasting .... construction of that bridge will be so expensive... you are going to see this road come down to either that alignment (refers to map)... hook up with Deer Creek Road and provide a connection... Then as you get growth coming up... I have heard from a lot of people who are either interested in property in this area .... This might possibly be .... That bridge is not going to be something that happens... in short range. Norton/ Is there any open space considerations out there, Dee, that would affect us? Vanderhoef/ Anything that is in the Iowa City area is going to be under the ordinance... Norton/ Would that affect the alignment at all? Vanderhoef/ Not specifically to this ..... rugged terrain ..... Davidson/ With respect t0 a decision on this one, how would you like to proceed? Do you want this on your agenda on the 9th for consideration? You have the recommendation tomorrow night. That is all you have for tomorrow night. Nov/ So tomorrow night we would acknowledge the fact that we received the recommendation and discuss it further at another time. Davidson/ Do you need another work session on it? Do you want to schedule it for a formal meeting? Nov/ No. Thornberry/ I think Naomi had some requests that I would like to Thlsreprasents only areasonably accuratetranscription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19 see also. Davidson/ We will get you the information about the total amount of those environmental features that would be displaced. Kubby/ The displacement of homes you have. There are two (refers to map). Nov/ What we are getting here is west alternative will displace one more home than the east alternative. Davidson/ Two with the west and one with the east. The same one .... Total is two. Nov/ And we need this kind of information about woodlands and wetlands and everything else. Davidson/ I will get you more complete information for you. Kubby/ So are we scheduling just a vote later...another work session .... in terms of the 36 options... I don't disagree that we should get that information but I don't know how it is going to help us move forward. Nov/ I think it would help one way or another if we knew there was a total of fewer environmental impacts in one side than in another. Davidson/ That information is summarized in the information you received. Nov/ Thornberry/ What you are saying one side takes two more acres of wetlands... didn't say how many. Kubby/ Norton/ Davidson/ We have been assuming the most important consideration for you is these do the least environmental damage of any alternative. Norton/ The process is getting away to me. Davidson/ JCCOG is done with this. It was added to the street plan Thisrepresents onlyareasonablyaccuretetranscriptlon ofthelowa Citycouncilmeetingof March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20 last spring... The alignment study and adoption of an alignment is step 2 and then any programming of a capital project or working with a subdivider to build part of it is a third step. Norton/ Kubby/ It was a spilt vote at JCCOG .... Davidson/ Yes, it was. Nov/ ..... JCCOG ..... What we are doing now is deciding which of the alignments do we want because JCCOG has already decided we ought to have a street here. Norton/ Davidson/ That is what I am asking right now. Do we schedule another work session or a formal consideration? Vanderhoef/ can you put your spotter on the five acres of farm land that would be saved on the east alignment versus the west? Davidson/ No, I cannot. Vanderhoef/ Five more acres would be impacted in the west alignment than the east alignment and I am wondering how many tillable acres there are? Davidson/ I will try to get all of those. Kubby/ ...seems practical that we should talk about it at a work session .... If we want more information... people are very tentative .... Nov/ .... We may or may not get four people that are going to agree. Are we going to change anything by having another ' 9 conversation . Kubby/ We did on Oakdale .... Thornberry/ .... I didn't know which way you are going. Davidson/ So the information about the total amount of impacted features is something you want to decide this alignment issue. Remember, we are not building any road right now. Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21 Lehman/ I really think .... looking for a grasping policies ...... going to be a wash. I think we are at straws. Bigger question .... growth Nov/ So you are saying that our environmental concerns are not going to be truly different between the east and west alignment. We ought to pick the one that is going to affect our growth area? Which case we should go with the east alignment because this is the one that defines the current growth area. Norton/ Consistent with our present concepts. Davidson/ If there is concurrence for the east alignment, then probably we don't need formal action. It is just a matter of getting back together with Coralville and getting something worked out. Correct? Nov/ That is what it sounds like. Davidson/ I will get with Coralville and let you know what they have to say .... Thornberry/ I have a question. Has it been decided that we are taking the east alignment? Nov/ No, it hasn't been decided. My question is are there people here who feel ready to say the east alignment is the logical choice based on our current Comp Plan? Council/ (Yes). Davidson/ I just counted four. Nov/ Sounds like we have four. Davidson/ Why don't I get back to Coralville ..... I will come back to you for formal action on the east alignment... If they say they would like to talk, would you like to appoint a committee to talk now? .... Nov/ If we need a committee we will appoint one. Kubby/ I would appreciate if the group did that and not the mayor. Nov/ We can do that. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelnwa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Davidson/ Okay, Nov/ Thornberry/ I think something. Council Work Session Page 22 I will let you know what Coralville says. we have to work with our sister city on Lehman/ .... I am not married to the easterly route. Davidson/ Naomi...they have said simply...their comp plan calls for in this area .... They have some fairly elaborate plans for this area and being able to have this swing to the west enables to serve that better .... They prefer the west. Kubby/ But what it does is if we go with the west it changes our Comp Plan ...... Is that an okay thing? .... Thornberry/ Kubby/ Nov/ Let'.~ not get University Hts. into this. This is 965 we are talk~n~ about. Thornberry/ I just feel we need to work- Since I am opposed to the other road .... I am not a tree hugging toad kisser or whatever .... Nov/ Can we change the subject here. I don't hear a decision- Davidson/ There is still a majority for the east, right? Nov/ We are going to have to get together with Coralville. Davidson/ I will talk with Coralville and report back. Nov/ Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23 Melrose Avenue - B¥in~ton to Hawkins: DesiGn Elements 96-38 S2 Davidson/ You have nothing on your formal agenda ..... tomorrow night. The reason you have this for your consideration tonight is that Steve needs concurrence, Steve Jacobson from NNW, Inc., doing the design of the Melrose Avenue project for us. We need concurrence on the proposed design for the Melrose Avenue project between University Hts. and Byington Road so that it can be submitted for the June IDOT letting and we assumed ... you would like to have some input on this. You have some pieces of information .... memo from me outlining sort of the work that has been done with the Melrose Avenue Neighborhood Association and I can certainly say... things have gone really well. We have had several meetings .... field trip up there ..... actually be there on site. As indicated in the memo... With respect to pedestrian crosswalks, proposal for a brick border area between the sidewalk and the curb, these are all elements in the proposed plan .... issues with respect to lighting and signage .... We are very much in consistent with what the neighborhood association would like to see. There are three points that I did highlight in the memo... two of them have been worked out since you received the mamo. I had a couple of conversations with M. Widness last week .... confusion about the transit shelters. We will propose what the neighbor association is endorsing .... two shelters, one on north side, one on south side (refers to map) .... Norton/ I understand if you put it on the west side of Melrose Court and the bus is coming down, people trying to make a left off of Melrose Court .... going to have to jockey around a parked bus. Davidson/ The bigger concern... was for the bus .... ability to weave through the lanes of traffic .... They have worked out or they will be talking to .... They don't want to propose a shelter where somebody doesn't want it .... There will be one on the north side .... enough people getting on and off .... There will be a lot of new destinations with the Pavilion buildings .... field house and parking ramp .... Norton/ It will be a mess at that corner .... Davidson/ What do the rest of you think about the shelters? Nov/ Shelters are not the problem. I think the pedestrian cross walk is- Davidson/ One other thing we did get ironed out was this Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetrenscrlptlon ofthelowa City council meetlngof March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24 landscaping issue .... There will not be landscaping funds for this area back here as part of this federal aid project (refers to map)... PIN grant program... working with the gas and electric company... Project Green ..... other sources .... That seemed to be worked out as well .... One thing where there is still probably a discrepancy between the staff proposal and neighborhood... at Melrose Court, the neighborhood association would still like to see a signal of some type there... a pedestrian actuated signal .... Staff position has been .... we are just a little nervous ... we don't know exactly what it is going to do to traffic patterns. We would like to see the way the traffic patterns do evolve and then study that issue .... A timing issue. Kubby/ Traffic patterns .... same kind of pedestrian flow... not going to change .... Davidson/ Other thing, we have had many many requests in this town for pedestrian signals all over town .... We don't have any pedestrian actuated, on a pedestrian signal over the road. So you may be setting a precedent here .... Kubb¥/ I am talking about a stop light .... to allow pedestrians... Nov/ I would have no problem having i~ activated by a car as well .... Kubby/ Steve Jacobsen/ Could increase the traffic on Melrose Court .... Davidson/ .... They favored the pedestrian only signal. They did not favor a traffic control .... What we have proposed right now is to have the intersection set up, have a signal added .... The Norton/ ...what do you do down at Grand? ..... Davidson/ We are going to have crosswalks in all directions .... (refers to map) ..... Kubby/ Jacobsen/ Painted. Nov/ Davidson/ Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Norton/ Why can't it be incorporated .... Council Work Session Page 25 in the pavement? Thornberry/ Davidson/ It is actually a plastic type street ..... of material put in the Jacobsen/ Plastic is a little more expensive... the paint .... Norton/ ...you can't see them .... melt it right into Davidson/ Traffic Engineer is very well aware of that .... Nov/ If we building a new street... line embedded in the concrete .... do it on every crosswalk along that area .... I am talking about some kind of plastic embedded in concrete .... Kubby/ Jacobsen/ It is probably cheaper for paint .... Norton/ Anything on the surface gets slippery when wet .... Nov/ Maybe we should put in a yellow brick line. Norton/ Are you going to have push button crosswalks at Hawkins? Jacobsen/ Yes. Norton/ Davidson/ ...unless you go to all red signal- Norton/ Davidson/ Given you can't go through to the south, you are talking about an all red phase .... Norton/ .... you stop the turners... You can figure it out I guess. Nov/ You are going to need an all stop... ordinary traffic signal... Thornberry/ Nov/ Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowe City council meeting of March 25,1996. W$032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26 Kubby/ How far away from traffic book warrants are we for pedestrian activated lights at Melrose Court and Melrose? Davidson/ I don't know that it has even been looked at yet .... What is there right now .... what they use that parking ramp for... all going to affect the traffic pattern Kubby/ Jacobsen/ Davidson/ Nov/ Tell me what you are talking about when you say the hospital putting people out further west. Jacobsen/ The entrance for the ramp and the Family Clinic .... aren't sure what kind of access they will have through the hospital .... Nov/ ...sounds like it ~s going to be mostly cars coming in and out at that point. Jacobsen/ ...that is where they are going to be coming out of the facility .... Nov/ Wondering... how many people are going to be on foot when they come out of that facility .... I think they are going to be in automobiles. Lehman/ Kubby/ I feel like we are really confused about crosswalk and sidewalk .... I am not sure if we made a decision or not. Lehman/ Kubby/ I am talking about the material for the road for the crosswalk. Davidson/ .... I think they are really trying to work on better paints. Nov/ If this is on the surface it peels off .... Fosse/ We have been using the plastic laminates on asphalt streets .... We can get about six years of life... We have not Thisrepresents only ereaeonably accuratetranscription of theIowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. W8032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27 tried them yet on concrete .... Not in this town. Nov/ What about the Coralville Strip area? Fosse/ I will check that out. Nov/ Fosse/ Nov/...paint lasts a good month these days .... Davidson/ Do you want to direct us one way or another? We have paint in there now. Nov/ Kubby/ I think we should try... plastic on concrete. Norton/ I am for the plastic. Nov/ I am for the plastic .... Thornberry/ Paint. Vanderhoef/ I would like to test it. Nov/ All right, sounds like plastic. Thornberry/ How much more expensive? Fosse/ I don't know ..... good idea to try it... do research. Kubby/ We decided not to do the pedestrian light, correct?... Put the conduit in .... Nov/ Put in conduit, transformers and whatever else .... Kubby/ Why not do it on the front end ..... ? Davidson/ Norton/ We are talking about pedestrian infrastructure for that but not the Davidson/ I activated stop light lights .... heard majority say do the conduit .... poles in? Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccur~etranscrl~lonofthelowa Cltycouncllmeetlngof March25,1996. WS032596 March 25, Kubby/ Nov/ I 1996 Council Work Session I am trying to advocate that. am advocating we put them in, too. Page 28 Norton/ I am too. I am for the lights. Nov/ I started out at the beginning saying what we really need here is a traffic light. Davidson/ You want a pedestrian light? Council/ (All talking). Davidson/ A whole ball of wax is what I am looking at. Okay. Nov/ Are we going to need a traffic signal for autos as well as for pedestrians .... or pedestrian only activation? Council/ Pedestrian only. Norton/ We don't want to stop traffic twice in that distance .... Davidson/ ..... So pedestrian only. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-39 SIDE 1 Lehman/ Personally, I would rather see us put in the conduit, open the street, and see need it. If we need it, we can put the pole and lights up pretty darn quick .... Nov/ We have them on Burlington Street. Norton/ ...These are uniquely controlled by a pedestrian .... Lehman/ .... I disagree with putting them in before we find out whether we need them. Thornberry/ Did he change your mind? Nov/ I think we have found out that we need them. Council/ (Okay, all right). Davidson/ Anything else about the project then. We can go ahead and let it? Nov/ Go ahead° Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowe City council meeting of March 25.1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29 Davidson/ Great. Thanks. Kubby/ It is pulling teeth to make a decision on anything tonight. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30 BurlinGton and Gilbert Intersection Reconstruction Fosse/ I will try and make it easy. 96-39 Sl Nov/ This one, just go ahead and do it. We don't know enough to even discuss it. Fosse/ Burlington and Gilbert intersection? Are you serious? Norton/ I want to hear that. Fosse/ We are taking bids tomorrow on the project and also on the agenda for tomorrow night is an agreement with the DOT to use city streets for detour of Highway 1 .... Thornberry/ You are seriously intersection, aren't you? considering closing that Fosse/ Yes we are and that is what I want to discuss tonight ..... Jeff has been out and visited with each of the businesses and property owners .... has gotten positive... except for one owner and that is the mini-mart down here, the L&M ..... He would prefer that the street stay open .... Benefits of just closing it .... for a 3-4 week period .... Lehman/ What time of year are we talking about? Fosse/ The closure would be on the front end of the project .... Problem for L&M Mart. He would like to keep traffic through there until after break .... Overall duration of the project would overall be decreased as well as the cost .... better quality... improved work zone safety for people out there .... kind of concerned about complications with the underground utilities out there, too .... always surprises .... What we would like to do is by approving this thing tomorrow night, that starts the process with the DOT to allow this to happen if it does happen. Our next step .... would be to negotiate with our contractor to find out of how much is a deduct in price and how much of a reduction in total working days we can realize out of this total closure versus doing it as we have got it proposed. Once we have that information then we can make a decision whether to do the total closure for 3-4 weeks or keep going on it as we bid it .... The route- McClure/ We don't have every scenario worked out .... For Highway 1 traffic .... agreement with DOT .... people traveling from west to east, they would detour off of Burlington at Linn Street, head one lock north .... (refers to map) ..... to College all Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCltycouncllmeetlngof March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31 the way out to... Governor outgoing. The people coming into town would come in on Dodge, College, Linn. Local Burlington Street traffic would go Linn, College, Johnson. Then Gilbert Street, that is still the same. There is no through access for Gilbert Street either way. They are going to be going Court, Linn, and then back to College .... Our general feeling .... people are going to avoid this at all costs after they hit it a couple of times .... Benefit to shop owners, it is a draw .... Thornberry/ Are you telling me that the guy who owns the Quik Trip on the corner of Burlington and Dubuque Street was all for closing that intersection? Fosse/ He wants to get it done quicker. Thornberry/ Before the college students leave town? Norton/ They walk through there anyhow, don't they? Lehman/ During part of this construction they are going to have a tough time getting across Burlington Street. Norton/ Thornberry/ They will get across it. Norton/ Is the church work going to be done? They have been closing the street part way. Fosse/ That is an issue. We have a letter from them requesting an extension of their agreement to use the public r.o.w .... Two problems .... conflict with this project... they have really not been very careful about those trees out there ..... They might have to get everything off from around those trees to allow them to rebound as best as they can .... Norton/ You can hardly have that detour and them still taking half of the street .... Fosse/ Right now the are just encumbering the parking area. McClure/ All the corners... we are proposing to remove all ... parking along the sides of the road ..... Thornberry/ McClure/ Dodge and Governor would become a 4-way stop .... 3-way Thisrepresents only arsesonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32 stop ..... Gilbert and College would be a 3-way. College and Linn would be a 3-way and Burlington and Linn would then be a 3-way .... Rec Center can be accessed from the parking structure on Washington Street ..... We have to provide access to Hansen Auto Body ..... all the people in the apartments .... It is just going to have to be worked out with contractor, inspector, myself, property owner and whoever to be able to provide access to them at all times .... Thornberry/ Could the Mini-mart.. put up temporary signs? Lehman/ He is right here. He has got access from every direction except here (refers to map). If this would shorten the project by 30-40%, it means a lot more to me .... Thornberry/ ..if it was after the students had left. His busiest time is going to be in the spring time before the students leave. Lehman/ The inconvenience of that street being worked on, whether or not it is closed, is going to prevent an awful lot of folks from even going through there .... Nov/ Thornberry/ (Refers to map) .... Put a sign .... McClure/ It is being done for every business. Part of our traffic control plan .... It is right on here. Provide directional sign for Rec Center, QuikTrip, Hansen Auto Body, Ralston Creek Apts. and other businesses as necessary .... Happy Joe signs .... We have got signs for Big Ten Rental, Gilbert Racquet Master, Sam's Pizza .... Thornberry/ Mini-mart .... Norton/ They are prepared to sign everybody that needs to be signed. Kubby/ Make sure we haven't missed anybody else. McClure/ Council/ Good job .... Thornberry/ ..... now you are coming back and saying we want to close the intersection. This ~presents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 33 Fosse/ We want to be able to negotiate with the contractor. If we get nowhere with the contractor .... there has got to be a financial and time advantage for us to do that. Thornberry/ McClure/ I think what is going to make a difference is if you choose to go with the brick paving. That is where it gets sticky. We are going to have to shut it down to get that in .... We did some utility locates later on and found out the exact location. The storm sewer is better outlined now. And just going through these plans... now we are realizing that it is possible ... better to do it closed .... Fosse/ Kubby/ Are we putting in bonuses for being done on time? Fosse/ Bonus to get done early and penalty if you get done late .... They always finish right on that date without that bonus .... Saw some real benefits on Rohret Road with that. Atkins/ You want a confirmation to authorize to renegotiate? How do you want to do this? Fosse/ Do you want this back to you after we have negotiated with the contractor to see if the reduction in working days and price will offset the inconvenience of the total closure? Thornberry/ I would like to see that. Lehman/ I think that is your call .... Thornberry/ I hate to close an intersection like that before college is out. I just really really have a problem with that .... Nov/ Would you prefer to do it before graduation or would you prefer to do it before football season? Fosse/ We thought about delaying the project a little bit .... people are hungry and we are looking for a good price on this tomorrow .... get it started for middle of April .... Norton/ Fosse/ We will prefer a matrix of options for you. This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work session Page 34 Nov/ What we are going to see tomorrow night is actual bids? Fosse/ Bids are opened tomorrow morning. Award will be tomorrow night and if you like we can negotiate with the contractor and then get with Steve... are benefits worth it. McClure/ ..... Regardless of cost... we are going to end up with a safer environment for the people .... lot easier to construct... less screw ups... detect any problems... reduce the amount of delays .... Thornberry/ .°°just don't like it done before school is out .... Norton/ I just worry about getting it done in a hurry .... Thornberry/ What is the hurry of getting it done for July when there is nobody here? Lehman/ McClure/ We have given them 72 working days based on a six day work week. That is four months ..... Burlington will be opened up again in about a four week period ..... Atkins/ If you bid tomorrow, get your low bidder. Would you negotiate immediately? Could you be prepared to recommend tomorrow night, the difference between the two bids? ..... Fosse/ I don't know if the contractor will be able to prepare- Arkins/ Does the council have to award this bid tomorrow night. Could we call a special meeting in a couple of days? ..... Fosse/ We could award tomorrow night but not make the decision on total closure versus partial closure until- Thornberry/ Atkins/ Right now the bid specs does not deal with this. And low bidder could say I am not interested and the debate is done .... If he is interested, report something tomorrow night, award it .... Fosse/ I think we can award tomorrow night. Early start date is April 15th? Next council meeting is April 9th. We could probably have a price... by then. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscrlption of theIowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 35 McClure/ The agreement .... at this point the D0T has to say it is okay. They won't act until you guys have acted .... Whether or not the DOT is going to approve it is up to them ..... Atkins/ Tomorrow night there is a bid. The agreement is a second item. Karr/ Item No. 21 is the agreement. Item No. 22 is the bid. Atkins/ .... low bidder can still demand .... I don't want to do this... renegotiate .... He will have complied with the bid .... Lehman/ Atkins/ Seeing that we should approve the agreement with the DOT to allow them to begin thinking about it. Approve the low bid. Follow up at a subsequent council meeting... have this issue resolved ..... allows everything to keep moving. Vanderhoef/ McClure/ By voting on the agreement tomorrow night, you will be signalling them that you are open to the idea of closing it down .... Kubby/ Are there any legal problems in someone saying there was a low bidder? ..... I would have been the low bidder if I would have had the chance to close it all at once. Atkins/ My impression is there is always that risk .... we choose to negotiate something less than that .... We also have change o~-ders, Karen. It is not uncommon. This is a change order of some consequence, maybe, we don't know .... Kubby/ Fairness question comes in. If I had known that was an option, I may have been the low bidder. Are we at any risk? Thornberry/ You are going to do this just as quickly as possible to start the project. Why? Why are we starting just as soon as possible? .... Fosse/ ~A~o reasons. Market is ripe for construction right now ..... people are hungry for this. Second one is the allocation of our staff. We have other projects that are slated for construction in the fall that I need our people for .... Thisrepresents onlyaraasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlonofthelowa Citycouncilmeeting of March 25.1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36 Engineering Design Standards 96-39 Sl Nov/ Rick, postpone and doing design standards again? Fosse/ No, I will just take two seconds on that .... If you have no questions, I really have nothing to say there. We just deferred parts of it for further discussion. I asked that the storm water management part of it be pulled out because I wanted to digest what I learned in Madison before we go changing our regulations and that is where we are at right now. Kubby/ For the things that are left in, will we be costing ourselves significantly more money with standardized standards or putting more concrete down than we normally would? Fosse/ The concrete in one of the issues that has been pulled out .... As far as costs, probably a wash. Somethings got more expensive, somethings got less expensive .... Up front costs are only part of it. Life cycle costs, total costs to tax payer is really at issue here .... Norton/ I had a couple of questions .... Has it cost us anything to join forces with the Uniform Code? .... Have we sacrifices anything in order to accommodate a joint standards? Fosse/ The biggest change for us to get on board with everybody else was the pavement width... 28 to 29 on local streets. And P/Z seems to be very much opposed to that and we are going to discuss that. There is some discussion of even going narrower .... Lot of discussions to take place there. As far as other concessions .... Lot of other communities were looking for excuses to improve their standards and bring them up to our level and this unified standard is one means. Administratively, it looks as if we are not going to have just one book for all the communities. Each community is going to have their own book but the format is going to be the same. The design standards are going to be very similar .... Administratively, we can't get everybody on the same page at the same time, year in and year out. We are going to get a lot of benefit. It is going to be substantially similar but they are not going to be identical documents. Norton/ Why are driveways so wide? Fosse/ People are always asking for wider driveways than what we- Norton/ Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcrlpfion ofthelowe City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37 Fosse/ Usually people are coming in and wanting a 36 foot driveway .... Norton/ Nov/ You have an old house. People are building three car garages. Norton/ I think it is ridiculous. Nov/ We will get a storm water impact fee and we will be all set. Norton/ ...There are a million things in here that we could discuss. 2500 cars, a collector street. That is hardly any cars at all, 2500 a day. Fosse/ That is a good question for Jeff. Thornberry/ ...explain this to me. The number of occupants for a drive-in restaurant shall be considered as equal to the number of parking stalls. What does that mean? Fosse/ That is not in the design standards. Thornberry/ Oh, that is in a different thing. Never mind. Norton/ ...Why no rolled curbs? Fosse/ We have had rolled curbs in town on a couple of cul de sacs .... people end up, they still cut those things out. They lower it even more .... out snow plow drivers have a hard time following that around and they end up scraping up the sod and people's yards .... People parking on the street keep driving off the edge and rutting it out. That was discussed though. Nov/ It is much cheaper. Fosse/ There is another issue there... rolled curbs don't work with our R8 type intakes .... Atkins/ Fosse/ On the agenda for tomorrow night is approval of everything except for those things that are pulled out. Norton/ What are we going to do then? Just half of them tomorrow night? Okay. Thlsrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032556 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 38 Atkins/ If you have a lot of questions, you should be able to ask them in a more informal environment ..... Fosse/ If you do have a lot of questions, let's pull this thing and schedule more time. Norton/ I am worried about 16 foot medians ...... Atkins/ Norton/ I will just give you a list of questions. Kubby/ How many people have detailed questions on these sections? Norton/ I can give them to Rick .... Nov/ You can call him tomorrow and get together .... Fosse/ Let's do that. Okay. Nov/ Having a 16 foot median is a good idea because you can put trees in it. Fosse/ That is for trees and it also allows room for a turn lane to go in there at some later date .... Norton/ Fosse/ Let's visit tomorrow. Norton/ Nov/ Norton/ I will give you a list. Nov/ Can we do the appointments first and then get to council time? Thisrepresents only sreesonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 39 Appointments 96-39 S1 Planning and Zoning commission: Richard Gibson-reappt. Senior Center Commission: Chevalier Monsanto This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40 Council Agenda/Time 96-39 Sl 1. Nov/ Do people want to spend some time discussing the proposed ideas... that Dorothy Paul sent us? I told her that I would at least ask... Kubby/ I think we should do it another night. Thornberry/ I read your letter and I thought it was very appropriate and I don't see spending any more time on it. Norton/ ... didn't seem like quite the right context to deal with them as much as I sympathize with most of them. I thought your letter was very appropriate. Vanderhoef/ It was on target. Kubby/ I disagree. I think we should talk about this but there is an overwhelming majority. Norton/ My head was spinning .... I said Dorothy, give me a break. Kubby/ Norton/ It is pushing us into ideological positions that are far away from where we need to be. Nov/ The basic principles here are something we are already behaving as if as have endorsed them. But what she would like is a resolution is a resolution that says we support the following .... So that is what I am asking about. Kubby/ Iowa City has been invited to become a human rights community that would be a decade long process that would be developed by people in town and some of the issues may be incorporated into that process .... Norton/ I think we should pull some ideas out of here... very useful... Nov/ We would have to have some kind of specific document to vote on if we want to spend the time discussing this and voting and adopting. Kubby/ ...five people said no .... Kubby/ I didn't know that five people said no. I thought it was four. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 41 Kubby/ ...assumption about you because you wrote the letter. Nov/ I am basically sympathetic to these principles but I am not sure they are something that we should do as a council. Thornberry/... They are good principles but I don't think this is the right forum .... Norton/ Nov/ I will talk to her and I want everybody to understand that this is an issue. What we voted on is to not spend anymore time on it. We were going to do it. We are not going to put it on the agenda for two weeks from now. Nov/ Partnering for Progress - Making Waste Work for You Seminar, Kirkwood Community College, April 10th. Anybody interested? 3. Nov/ Planning seminar in Des Moines, March 28-29. Kubby/ We have staff going to some of those things. Nov/ Same day as what we have going on at Northwest Junior High .... Staff members will be going to both of those .... 4. Nov/ Tree City USA award and the award comes with invitations to come to the ceremony... three people... Terry Trueblood ..... It is in Des Moines, April 9, 11:00 to 1:00 PM ..... go and come back ..... Terry is receiving an award. He has been selected by Iowa Urban and Community Forestry Council as the 1995 Outstanding Professional of the Year for Urban Forestry in Iowa .... Terry Robinson .... [ will go if no one else wants to go .... Maybe Dee V. will go ..... We will go ..... It is Terry Robinson who will go .... Nov/ Don't forget we have a meeting on Transit on Wednesday morning and we have a memo on Transit dated March 13 .... dig it out and read it .... Thornberry/ .... I gave half of it away... at the JCCOG meeting... Karr/ Do you want another copy tomorrow? I will bring some copies tomorrow. Nov/ It was a loose memo from a couple weeks ago... dated March 13 .... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 42 Karr/ I will bring a couple of copies tomorrow. Nov/ ...I am telling you to dig it out and read it sometime .... two memos .... ask Marian for another copy .... both are pertinent. 6. Vanderhoef/ I have had two calls on garbage collection problems. One of them is how do they weigh the garbage ..... And then I got one today something about a larger over sized garbage can .... This was a woman and I referred her back to Solid Waste. Kubby/ Problem is we have a law that says 35 gallon container ..... We need to decide if we want to discuss that... We already have the weight question decided in the law. Norton/ Atkins/ 35 gallon container, 50 pounds. Kubby/ This woman has a 45 gallon container ..... Nov/ ..... He had two bags that weren't picked up...save them for next week .... Kubby/ Will you give us an update tomorrow... with Floyd about the 45 gallon. Atkins/ ¥eah ..... Kubb¥/ Although he is leaving town tomorrow morning. 7. Vanderhoef/ I also have a letter similar to the Bud Louis letter that is in our packet on the jet memorial out at the airport saying that this is truly a memorial to veterans... and for the Airport commission to take it upon themselves to move it or to give it to Green Castle ..... Nov/ Vanderhoef/ ...the conversation was we don't want it here and we understand that Green Castle would like very much to have it and why don't we give it to them .... Atkins/ Burnside/ At the most recent conumission meeting, Mr. Louis appeared and expressed his concern and the commission didn't indicate Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 43 any great eagerness to do anything with Old Jet .... I will be surprised if Old Jet goes any place. 8. Vanderhoef/ I will defer conversation about the John Carver... when Larry is here. I gave Steve some materials that I had mailed out to me. Vanderhoef/ I saved or earned some money for the city while I was at the convention. I dropped my card in the hat and I won a half day seminar .... Kirkwood campus, Iowa City campus, last week .... had a conversation with Becky Lynch .... 10. Vanderhoef/ You are going to talk about the $50 rent for public housing? Is that on your list? Kubby/ That is just kind of sitting there. 11. Vanderhoef/ Yes, your answer to your question about policy guidelines for travel. I would appreciate whatever you would like to put out for us. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-39 SIDE 2 12. Vanderhoef/ Let me run through my list. I like John Gross's idea of doing something about the young adult grade school kids and free bus passes if they have a- I liked that idea very much. 13. Vanderhoef/ Something came up, Victoria Stevens called and left a message on my machine... how to collect the money for the Jazz Fest .... Victoria Stevens .... working with Ginsberg .... I have not called her back .... Conversations in budget time, there was some discomfort... how to monitor or say how we wanted that money used if we were the people putting it out versus the CVB .... I don't know whether anybody has any feelings. Kubby/ ...want to see your total budget .... is how it was said. Vanderhoef/ It was sort of spacey on what kind of material we got on that. Norton/ I am not quite following on what is happening. Does this have to do with CVB moneys? Vanderhoef/ No. This is straight out from the Jazz Fest. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25. 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 44 Kubby/ Yeah but what are you suggesting we do differently? I don't understand. Vanderhoef/ Ask for a better accounting of how they spend the money. Norton/ He did come back with kind of an odd list. Vanderhoef/ I just wondered if, as a group, we would like to say this is what we like to see accountable for how you spent the money that we give you for both Jazz Fest and for Arts Fest. Kubby/ Only if we do that for ICAD and every other group. We need to be consistent .... This might be a very good idea ..... Norton/ Vanderhoef/ I am putting it out there for future agenda item or whatever we want to do with it. Okay? That's it. 14. Kubby/ A couple of letters here from the state archeologist about Napoleon Park that I was hoping that somehow this got to Marian but the guy spelled her name wrong in the e-mail world .... You can read it this weekend. basically, I believe .... we need to communicate better ..... future projects... when we know there are archeological sites, we need to be better prepared on the front end so this kind of stuff doesn't happen and there are resources available for us. Atkins/ I don't agree with a lot of what he has to say. Kubby/ I would like some public discussion about this tomorrow night ..... It is always so interesting to me...to hear different perspectives... I don't think... I don't want to rehash this many inches was dug up... I want to ...how we can do better next time... prepared on the front end .... insure that our process is really good. Atkins/ I will tell you right now I don't think you can guarantee that. Kubby/ We know that we don't have to wait until we are ready to have machinery out there to see how significant archeological sites are... do some testing now... to know the magnitude of what we need to do for the next construction season. Thornberry/ ...know that there are some buried people... where we This represents only o reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. W$032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 45 are going to dig the wells ..... Norton/ In principle .... let them know .... Atkins/ Sensitive Areas Ordinance wasn't an issue on that. Kubby/ It will be for the water plant ..... Nov/ Some of these technical studies have been done in the past ..... just that the Corps of Engineers suddenly discovered that these things existed. Kubby/ ...know the significance of the site .... being more acutely aware of where the sites are... and how potentially significant they are. Do that on the front end instead of during the digging time ..... Thornberry/ Are you going to be bringing this up tomorrow night? Kubby/ In some form .... look to the future .... My focus is how do we do the best we can for the rest of the sewer plant and the water plant .... Thornberry/ ..to bring gotten past that... way to go ..... the whole thing up... now that we have letting sleeping dog lie might be the best Kubb¥/ I feel we could have done some things better and differently Thornberry/ ...I think the city does the best they can with the understanding of what they got in front of them. Kubb¥/ .... stuff I might be mentioning. 15. Kubby/ There are a couple of people on First Avenue who are... upset about easement documentation and information was given to them in terms of the First Avenue Project ..... and they were told it was in the document that they would have ten days to look it over to sign it .... not happy about some of the details in it .... I guess I would like us to look into that a little bit. Burnside/ It is already under review. Kubby/ I just want to make sure people have a comfortable amount of time to make some big decisions about how their property is This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032696 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 46 going to be affected. 16. Kubby/ (f(6)CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING MINIMUM MONTHLY RENT (TOTAL TENANT PAYMENT) OF $25.00 FOR FAMILIES PARTICIPATING IN THE PUBLIC HOUSING PROGRAM.) I guess I do want to have some discussion tonight...about the $50 thing. Atkins/ I am going to have to defer to Dale. I didn't do this agenda. Helling/ Originally the question of $50-it was suggesting putting it on to set a p.h .... $25 is mandatory for both and that is why they are both on there. The question of $50 was something that was suggested by staff and rejected by HCD Commission .... Final decision was you can talk now or later about the $50 and whether you want to do the $50. There is only one family, one tenant that is affected by that. So you could make it retroactive to April 1 is you want. The important thing was to get it on for the $25 bump for both of them because that is mandatory to be done by HUD by April 1. Kubby/ So the resolution is just for the $25 on both? Helling/ On each one, that is correct. I will double check with Doug. He was going to check with HUD and find out if there were any windows that we had to meet .... effective whatever date you want to and I will have to check with him. Nov/ These items are in the Consent Calendar. Vanderhoef/ Helling/ I will let you know tomorrow night what your options are. Kubby/ I wouldn't want to make that retroactive. 17. Kubby/ Dee Norton had brought up this idea of a tour of the peninsula and water plant sites. Any movement on that? Atkins/ Weather breaks- Council/ Atkins/ As soon as the weather breaks we will schedule it. 18. Kubby/ .... If anybody is interested in signing on an ad that will be published in the DI the second week in April for Thte represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 47 Community members to support the right of graduate student employees to organize. You can sign onto that if you so choose. 19. Arkins/ Can I ask you a question? What did you bowl? Kubby/ 103 or something. Norton/ On the Bowl for Kids. Kubby/ I can't remember. I ended really strong .... We had a couple of vagrant people come and join our team .... Norton/ I wanted to bowl one... in my stocking feet. Kubby/ Dick Myers came in, too... he is a good bowler. 20. Norton/ I wanted to report a couple of things. I also was at the Kirkwood Workshop with Dee and Dean and chaired one of the little groups... discussing what they could do in the way of meeting their mission and they were concerned about training ..... for service jobs right here in Iowa city .... Also we empathized that daycare at their place would be a very nice thing .... They need daycare seriously there. 21. Norton/ I also spent a lot of time Friday ...at the Science Center discussion with good presenters.°. big thing... Science Center .... they want the Science Center... connected with IMAX Theater .... that is what brings in the money to pay the operating costs for the science centers .... they need a good deal of space .... 22. Norton/ I am very interested in the League of Cities thing coming up ..... 23. Norton/ I had a couple of letters from people in Galway .... give them to the Clerk. Nov/ We did get them and they are going to be in the next agenda book. 24. Norton/ I had a couple of calls also about recycling ..... I thought the information was pretty clear about how to handle that recycling thing. Kubby/ Much improved. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 48 Norton/ 25. Norton/ I think we ought to get a policy together about where we are going to notify archaeologists and historical people and so forth ..... complicated .... In principle it seems that any time you are close to the river that is going to be a clue .... Atkins/ I spent a lot of time today- Norton/ 26. Norton/ I wanted to emphasize this back billing policy that is in the packet ..... Nov/ I expect those people to come for council time... public discussion tomorrow. Kubby/ Do we want to discuss how we want to respond? .... Nov/ Same issue we heard last time from Anna Buss. Kubby/ Do we want to do more? Nov/ We can change the policy but I certainly don't want to do that tomorrow night. Norton/ I think we ought to re-visit it because I do think it is time .... we ought to know how many dwelling units there are. Nov/ I think we have a decent computer now that could cross check permits for rental units and billing for water and waste pickup. We could do this ..... Kubby/ Do a cleaning of the house to make sure we have done everything .... amnesty those people... keep the policy as is but make sure we clean house and let it go .... Thornberry/ I don't think we ought to back bill. Nov/ I think we ought to not discuss this tonight. Put it on the agenda a couple of weeks from now. Okay, Steve? Norton/ Discuss this back billing. It also comes down to housing inspection in general .... Wonder when did things go into affect? When do they apply? ..... Get more consistency .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowe City council meeting of March 25, 1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session Page 49 Vanderhoef/ Is it a question the inspector asks? Is it on the check sheet? Norton/ Maybe we need to look at out inspection process. Atkins/ Just so you understand, not everyone shares that view. A neighborhood in particular is hammering us for being too lenient .... We get it from ends .... Norton/ I am just saying that is we have gone into affect with some rule, it needs to be implemented promptly. Atkins/ I need to have you debate that. Nov/ I am trying to urge us to not debate it tonight. 27. Kubby/ I was very nervous about us voting on the UBC and fire stuff without us talking about it... specific questions. talked to Ron Boose .... My big questions were things like what are the things we are adding here that are going to increase the cost of building new construction and he is going to come here .... tomorrow night... Also something in here that decrease the cost of construction. I said end on that point. 28. Nov/ I found one more letter in here... opportunity... attend a banquet for Bethany Church of Iowa City. This is a $25 a person dinner which covers a variety of entertainment ..... Horowitz... did a proclamation at a city council meeting and I told him that I would do a proclamation at the next city council meeting and I would not attend the dinner. He said will you send somebody else .... If anyone here would like to go to this dinner .... fund raiser .... I did not go beyond telling him that we can do a proclamation ..... April 19 .... The pastor will come .... 29. Norton/ I want to mention at a meeting on Emergency Preparedness .... nice talk with lady who district was in Oklahoma ..... I did pick up quite a bit of interesting information ..... Kubby/ Disaster planning... think the worst. Atkins/ (Can't hear) .... Norton/ Neighborhood associations ..... 30. Nov/ City staff and Telecommunications Commission are working This represents only a reasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of March 25,1996. WS032596 March 25, 1996 Council Work Session on public access agreements and PATV .... process. Page 50 The agreement is in 31. Karr/ One thing ... we have got some scheduling conflicts that may be shaping up in the next few months. If any of you- I know some of you have given me some tentative dates to be out of town... let us know .... 32. Nov/ Oh, and we wanted to schedule a meeting with ICAD sometime around the end of April. Arkins/ I am going to see them on Wednesday. Nov/... try and pin down a date ..... last week of April looked relatively open. Thornberry/ Is there a meeting 16th of April? Karr/ No. Adjourned: 11:05 PM Thls;aptesants only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of Match 25,1996. WS032596