HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-04-23 TranscriptionApril 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 1
April 23, 1998
Council Work Session
4:05 PM
Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry, Vanderhoef.
Staff.' Helling, Walsh, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Schmadeke, Miklo, Boothroy, Smith.
Consultants: Robert Gray, Sergio Vazquez (Dover, Kohl, & Partners).
Tapes: 98-56, Side 2; 98-57, Side 1.
Peninsula 98-56 S2
Franklin/First of all, I just want to call your attention to the schedule... for the Northeast
Planning District. It is just for your information.
This afternoon we are going to talk about the Peninsula Project and the purpose of
this meeting was to have the council have contact with the consultants at the very
beginning so that we can discuss this project, the process and the scope. If there is
any input that you want to give to the consultant at this point in time. So today
with us are two of the folks who are going to working on this project from the
firm of Dover, Kohl & Partners .... The week of May 1 to May 8 there will be a
team of seven people who will be here in Iowa City who will be working with the
design workshops. Today we have Sergio Vazquez and Robert Gray .... What they
are going to do today is give you an introduction as to process, what this design
workshop is about, what the outcome will be so that you know that the different
steps are .... It is your meeting.
Robert
Gray/I am Robert Gray. I am with Dover, Kohl & Partners from South Miami,
Florida. I am here with Sergio as Karin pointed out. You have a schedule in front
of you regarding the charrette itself.... As put forth in your RFP that we responded
to to get the project, this is about the Peninsula site and this is a charrette which is
a French word for little cart. It comes from... famous architecture school in the
19th century ....students... would send a cart around and ask them to put their
projects rolled up on the cart to collect them. If you were way behind and trying to
finish your project quickly, you would jump on the cart and continue... drawing
until the cart got to the end of the room and then you had to hand it in... The idea
of a modem charrette is very much akin to that in that you are trying to do a lot of
work in a condensed amount of time... In a public process... to get results
quickly .... The idea of working in a charrette atmosphere is to let's get some
results and let's get them now. This charrette is a public charrette and designed
with public input .... Schedule... We arrive here Friday .... get all ready for our
Saturday workshop... begins with an introduction to the basics of urbanism.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 2
Lehman/This is at the church on Foster Road?
Gray/Yes, sir. The idea of that discussion is... to give the idea of what a real
neighborhood is all about in terms of urban design. Our firm comes from a certain
point of view... new urbanism .... making neighborhoods akin to the way we have
done them historically in this country .... based on certain urban design principles.
We will present those ideas at the beginning of the charrette and then along with
that presentation will be a how we got here... based on why the city is doing this
project at this time .... What we are trying to accomplish... Also... logistics about
the site .... Ask .... break into tables and work on that property. In terms of input...
difficult for people to communicate and have real dialogue .... How to get dialogue
and communication and good ideas... Idea of this workshop .... entire... week is to
condense time and get a lot done. But also provide the public... all people
involved ....to come in and say ....We get all that type of input ....Break into
tables ....We will ask them to go through a number of different ways ....A lot of it
is... rather chaotic... good ideas... Small group... one minute... most important
thing you have in the neighborhood .... Basically at each table there is ten people...
with one person from our staff.... that table to include... citizens... members of the
Planning Department... We would like you all to be there .... We want to make
sure that everyone is participating and drawing their ideas. Sometimes a table will
get divisive because half of the table will want to see something that the other half
doesn't. We call that a MRV, multiple re-entry vehicle... Break that table into
half... We will put them up on the wall .... each table... ask them to present their
ideas .... We have people who can draw on our staff... draw quickly some ideas...
writing in a big word .... We ask them to focus on things that are physical .... Code
enforcement... a good issue but it is not really what a charrette designing a new
neighborhood is about. We want to talk about physical things .... Physical things
about the neighborhood, what we would like to see there .... houses, size of the
houses .... sizes of park spaces .... We try and focus on physical things. Each table
presents their ideas to the rest of the group. What happens... find that people from
Iowa want a lot of the same things .... you find a lot of consensus on the
drawings .... Also find things that are off the scale, off the spectrum .... There may
be a wild idea .... endorse that. There is a chance for an idea .... We want ideas from
all sectors and all ideas are welcome. Then we break...at the end of these table
presentations ....sometimes do a microphone session at the end of that. We want to
hear what people thought about it. Every table ...one person to be a
representative .... It may also...field general questions ....
Then the rest of the week through the 8th, we work in one room .... still trying to
determine what that one room is .... figuring out where exactly that space is going
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 3
to be. We work pretty much non-stop from Sunday through Friday evening .....
work in progress presentation on the 8th .... may be earlier in the day .... What
happens during that time... If someone couldn't be at the Saturday session... door
is open... We want people to come and give their ideas .... We also... 4th,
interviews to be scheduled .... interview or just a walk through. We would like
each of you to come individually and walk through... We will show you what is
going on .... early in the week would be best .... to sit down with myself or Victor
or Sergio... and talk about special issues that you have... one on one .... It may be
important to have members of the planning board .... have them come through and
those be scheduled .... We don't want it .... I can't set up 60 interviews .... We want
to make sure we include those two groups... especially the city council. Other
boards .... like everyone to come to the Saturday sessions and focus on that .... City
council are important members, we want them .... If there is a really important
developer .... someone who might actually build this project .... We will make a
time to bring them in this week and show them around... We are going to work
very hard to include anybody that we can. Our focus is to include them on
Saturday .... We are very flexible and work to include ....
We have an informal pin up on Tuesday .... good time and come in and hear our
ideas about what is going on .... Saturday... have .... tables of ideas... heard input on
what people would like to have happen .... We move from being facilitators to
being designers and we try to meld these ideas together on one plan... Also work
on areas that may not have been addressed .... Our job in the end is to tell you this
is what we think is going to be the best possible design on this site as our advice
to you. The point of this whole project is to... present something that can get you
the things that you want .... proud of this new neighborhood... but also make it
very real for a local builder to build ....
The idea after this process is to then present RFP out for public bid for a builder to
come in and build this neighborhood. While we may take the design in this
process all the way to an idea plan .... what I envision is something that presents
more of just a framework on the idea of the plan and the important aspects of it
in .... site specific .... other things... public spaces... streets... should be allowed to
remain flexible .... developer would want that flexibility .... Flexibility and getting
the things you want is a balancing act ..... Come up with an idea... a standard...
then you back off that into a framework of what you think is really important ....
certain guidelines .... hold these truths to be self evident .... truth about the way the
house addresses the street. Fronts and backs are very important... make it more
attractive and safer... Builder... build project... make more money building this
project... than he would doing a conventional things. We have found... better
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 4
better neighborhoods is a niche market that is creating tremendous retum .... very
proud of.... Open up for other questions.
Lehman/On this workshop you are going to have on Saturday, are you going to give the
groups some sort of guidelines? ..... Unless this group have some direction from
you as to the direction we would like to go, you are probably going to get a lot of
folks that are going to design a subdivision that looks like every other subdivision.
Kubby/That is why there is the Intro to Basics of Urbanism.
Lehman/
Gray/Basics of Urbanism will show in a pictorial way .... Victor Dover .... show things...
In that .... here is how we are doing it now .... that isn't quite as desirable. And here
is the same land use, same lot size and the difference is the design .... truth that we
want to see happen design-wise. He will also talk about common-sense things we
may not be doing in our subdivisions today ..... Developers .... are building... trying
to make a product that will sell and I think honestly, developers do a very good
job from the threshold in in terms of the house itself. How the house works with
the rest of the neighborhood is where I think they miss the boat because I don't
think they think about that .... Our job... is to take the product they have and the
knowledge they have .... and our knowledge ....you can add value beyond the
threshold by making the neighborhood better .... They say well, my architect can't
do that. Well, maybe then you need to get a new architect and I know a lot of
good architects out there .... trying to add to it things we think will make it
better ....We will give some basic ideas but we also want to- We are here to
listen ....certain things about Iowa ....
Lehman/You mentioned something else that I think is really really important .... We
obviously .... enamored with the whole concept of doing something in this
peninsula that is new and different .... We also well aware that unless we put
something together that is economically feasible, it isn't going to fly... terribly
important that developers be brought along step by step .... showing them how this
can be done .... I hate to see a beautiful concept with all of this work go into it and
then have a developer just say we just can't do it... important that we work this
step by step so that we come up with an RFP that someone is going to jump on.
Gray/My experience... couple of things you have going for you. One is you own the
land .... allows you to make the financial deal .... May be able to ask for a little
higher standard .... city owns it .... can offer deal that is sweeter than the average
bear .... We will work with bringing them along.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 5
Lehman/I believe .... I would be happy to make phone calls... 16 different developers
expressed interest in this .... I would like to see several of them here.
Franklin/We have sent out invitations to specific people as well as to organizations ....
You can play a role by talking to people... you would like to see... encourage
them... We arrange for a time in that week... contact with the design time...early
on in the week... Encourage them to come on Saturday... hear what other people
are saying... hear the presentation .... idea that is behind all of this ....
Norton/...nature of that Saturday... We know from the staff how we got here ....
Gray/How We Got Here .... my title idea. I was thinking .... more about the site itself.... I
would like to get it fresh in your minds... showing some pictures of the place ....
Norton/How many do you expect? I got an invitation .... I thought that was from the
church. I wasn't quite clear what the status of that was .... I thought it was like a
neighborhood association inviting... I didn't know quite how to deal with it. Are
we to be there?
Franklin/We have got copies of it right here.
Miklo/If you know of anyone who didn't receive this .... pass these out.
(All talking).
Norton/I wanted to know which ones are mandatory ....
Franklin/How many people are going to be there? Comfortably we can have 100 people
there .... in that space ....
(All talking).
Franklin/Developers... we have invited the city council, P/Z Commission, Housing and
Community Development Commission, Riverfront and Natural Areas .... all of the
property owners on the Peninsula... Homebuilders Association, Environmental
Advocates, Chamber ....
Miklo/Several developers.
Norton/...councilors ....
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 6
Franklin/...if you know you are going to be there, that would be useful.
Kubby/
Lehman/
Thornberry/What time should we be there?
Lehman/For the whole day.
Franklin/Come as much as you can.
Kubby/
(All talking).
Gray/It is best to be there the whole time .... If you could come .... come as early as you
can and stay as late as you can .... Table session is two hours roughly of working
time .... Is this going on your cable access television? .... Council members .... look
at what the other tables are doing ....
Lehman/I think it is really important for as many of us to be there as possible and I mean
for all day.
(All talking).
Norton/Then to schedule and interview at some time... early in the following week ....
Gray/
Lehman/Can't have four.
Dilkes/We just post it.
Franklin/We will post it ....
Kubby/...I could leave at noon ....at least participate a little bit at a table session ....
Gray/...If you are there for a good couple of hours ....get a flavor ....We have had very
good success with this method ....
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 7
Lehman/ ....I think we need to... follow the whole process.
Thornberry/I was in Iowa City a long time and left and went to different cities, came
back and I saw a lot of the same houses .... all over .... other communities...
different construction ideas that I have not seen in Iowa City yet .... Oklahoma ....
In spending as much time I have in Europe .... I have really got some ideas that I
would like to present for that area .... make that area unique blend of a lot of
things .... different than any place else in Iowa City ....
Norton/
Gray/When I design houses with people... My favorite clients are the ones who come in
with a stack of magazines ....and say these are the kinds of kitchens I like ....We
draw a detailed drawing... now we all know what you are talking about .... All
have the same vision in our heads exactly ....If you have pictures of other places,
bring those in ....
(All talking).
Gray/...we would love to see them ....
Lehman/No green machine.
Thomberry/
Lehman/I think we are all very enthused about this .... What we may be able to do ....
Gray/I think it is an exciting process for us... unique opportunity .... Our whole team is
excited .... Ames... I was there 3-4 years ago ....
Lehman/If we did not have this opportunity... we probably wouldn't be ready either ....
Norton/...what we do here .... influences what happens there... contiguous...
O'Donnell/
Lehman/I am going to be there from the time we start .... walk this whole thing through ....
(All talking).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 8
Norton/Are the guidelines... talk about commercial areas? ....
Gray/Aside from the process .... talk about issues that relate to the site .... One thing .... I
have experienced in other places .... property owner, developer .... between the end
of the charrette and our final presentation, they are going to try to adjust
everything .... They call me .... It will be a work in progress .... likely to have
impact... during this week .... Issues are harder to deal with at the end of the
charrette than they are during the charrette .... Everything is on the table ....
Kubby/Property is pretty unique .... To make sure people have a sense of that place. It
would be nice to be able to offer people ....to offer some kind of tour... better
understand what you are talking about ....
Gray/Site tour .... we can change that and put it in .... 9:50 to 10:20 thing... changing that
to a site tour ....
Kubby/ ....physically saw it with their own eyes ....
Norton/
Gray/Do both... mix community... Some people will be more adventurous than others ....
see the property .... ready for both... pictures... site tour ....
Kubby/Arrange some transportation ....
Gray/Show you pictures .... look at the site ....have a half hour...
Lehman/Because some of the folks .... will there be a second mailing?...
Franklin/We could. We need to have a response by the 30th.
Miklo/We also intended to do phone calls ....
Lehman/Would it be possible... better .... big day... have 4:00 to 6:30 on Friday for a site
tour .... do that the day before so we don't interrupt a session .... hard to get them
congregated. Better if we could have the site tour the evening or afternoon before.
Gray/Aspects of the site... renovation, redevelopment... got to see the condition... green
filled site .... I am of both minds on this .... If you do it the night before, it is not as
good ....Need it fresh in your minds. We can do a tour... a bus... cart them out
there.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 9
Vanderhoef/I have been out there several times .... boundaries... If we had some sort of
colored flags that said this is the boundary for the golf course ....100 year flood
plain.. private land to the north... three different ....
Norton/
Gray/On Saturday we will have a base map ....
Lehman/The golf course... working on it ....
(All talking).
Kubby/
Thomberry/How much detail do you want here?
Gray/We are not going to give placement of houses from people on Saturday... tour... We
will just adjust the schedule to accommodate that .... Getting from people are
maybe general concepts .... trees along the streets ....
Norton/ .... understand... once this development in place... loaded with covenants? .... Will
this have a peculiar set of regulations? ....
Franklin/I can conceive there could be some covenants to insure that you retain-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-57 SIDE 1
Norton/
Gray/I would say the goal of this process is to delineate clearly the vision of what you
want to see happen there .... We actually do write codes related to projects we do.
We actually, in talking with the city .... that might make it more daunting for a
developer at this stage .... I think that is something that might be covered when you
are in the negotiations phase of the whole project with that person... We will try to
tell you these are the .... things that are very important and some of those may be
general things, some of those may be that we have pointed out .... In certain
instances, come up with something site specific. There may be none of that .... We
just have to see how it comes out .... On a lot of different levels... We will propose
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 10
streets based on streets from all over the world ....greater city streets, great
neighborhood streets that we have experienced .... What the setback of the houses
are... Then our idea is to draw what we think is the best possible thing and then
we will look at that and compare it to the Code you may have in place right
now ....
Lehman/
Gray/This is the vision we want and during the second and third question is how do we
get there from here .... The other thing... city's land... help it work .... happen the
way we want them to happen ....
Franklin/After this whole project is done and it is a great success, one of our thoughts
was that we develop a traditional neighborhood ordinance that we could use city
wide ....
Gray/Two things about that...traditional neighborhood ordinances are tougher ordinances
to write .... easier to write guidelines based on a specific site .... Land just doesn't
all come out square .... I did fly over Iowa today... pretty big squares...
Lehman/All right, I think we are excited.
Gray Thank you very much.
Lehman/Thank you.
Norton/Wait a minute, are we gone already? .....
(All talking).
Thornberry/Are you here for the duration or all you going back home tonight or what is
the deal?
Gray/We are going back home tomorrow .... We were at the site earlier .... We need to get
a couple more shots of the site ....Is there some parts of this town you would like
us to look at? ....
(All talking).
Thomberry/There is an area just south of here in Missouri called Tan Terra .... It is rolling
hills and valleys... resort... golf course .... It is very nice... big areas... small ones...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 11
here and there... big trees .... kind of fit this plan into the area. They didn't re-do
the area... It is really really nice.
O'Donnell/
Norton/
Thomberry/There have multi-family ....
Gray/Get pictures of it and bring it in.
Thornberry/That is how to fit something into an area that fits and works.
Lehman/I think that is the whole idea of the charrette ....
Kubby/There are two neighborhoods that consistently people find on their doors little
notes saying if you ever decide to sell your house, call me first... Longfellow
Neighborhood and the Northside... highly desired neighborhoods and two older
neighborhoods ..... people really like to live in ....
(All talking).
Gray/...older neighborhoods have... predictability about what is going to be there .... Even
though this is 90 some... acres ....may get built in phases ....Our experience with
our developer clients has been... in process of building ....In our projects we are
finding that as the place gets built out, its gets better and value goes up ....
Thornberry/
Champion/...beautiful park in the middle... houses are clustered ....
Thornberry/Thinking .... street with an arch... garages from inside there ....
Gray/Predictability comes in two ways... clear vision on what the whole place is going to
be... designed of the first pieces .... If you are building temporary sprawl ....
building isolation .... When you are building community, the more you build, the
more community you are building .... the better it gets .... becomes more
complete .... It is always going to be a peninsula .... And it will always be a drive in
and a drive out site with that one road ....There is a whole list of things that could
be also out there ....
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398
April 23, 1998 Council Work Session page 12
Thornberry/If we have the capability of putting in some restaurants and some
businesses ....got the capability of putting in some retail with residential and have
it fit.
(All talking).
Lehman/All right... thank you very much.
Adjourned: 5:05 PM
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of April 23, 1998
WS042398