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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-03-27 TranscriptionMarch 27, 1996 Council Work Session 9:05 AM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Kerr, Fowler, Davidson, Logsdon, Doyle, Yucuis. Tapes: 96-43, all; 96-44, all. Atkins/ I would like to suggest to you this morning that we somewhat step back and work forward with this issue. I would like to spend a little time with you defining expectations you have as a city council of what a public transit system should be, shouldn't be; have us collectively define the problem and then hopefully go through some sort of a process that will identify how we can identify each of these issues ..... I would like for you to keep in mind, I think, two real important issues. We have both a short term financial problem and... a long term policy problem. Where do we want to end up when we are done with this thing? How do we want to shape this particular public service that we are responsible for? .... Making sort of a rough list from you of your expectation, vision, what do you expect from a public transit ..... I would Just like to hear informally .... what is the public transit system in Iowa City, Iowa and what do you expect of it? .... How can we move this debate to some sort of conclusion .... But what is your expectation of public transportation system? And I am saying both fixed route and paratransit because of federal law they fit hand in glove .... Your values, vision, expectations? Kubby/ It is a convenient, efficient way to get people from point A to point B .... Lehman/ Steve, I think one of the key words Karen has there is efficiency. Arkins/ (Prepares a chart) .... convenient means of movement of our citizens. Norton/ Available for everybody but focused on some .... Atkins/ Available to everyone ..... Lehman/ ..... Atkins/ .... we will take time to pick these apart...you are explaining why you believe it should be market driven... This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 2 Baker/ ...seems like what you are talking about is demand here .... Lehman/ Somehow a commitment to encourage use... encourage this mode .... advertisement... something... Atkins/ What other things .... we make services available to people but they don't have to use them .... demand driven... demand meaning the ridership? Encouraging the use .... Norton/ .... Atkins/ You are saying I can't comprehend this community not having public transportation. Norton/ We have heard a lot of people say that. Atkins/ The imperative is the word .... think of how to say that. Kubby/ A necessary part of our community. Thornberry/ It is not absolutely necessary ..... like water and sewer and fire and police. Kubby/ Atkins/ Necessary public service. That is 100%. Someone else may say it is a very nice to have public service and it diminishes that somewhat. That is a legitimate issue for debate. Nov/ Expectations of public services here that no everybody has .... We as a city expect this kind of service from our government. Atkins/ Unique community expectations. That is clearly an Iowa City characteristic .... Vanderhoef/ We also have a unique reputation ..... respect to public transportation. Atkins/ Kubby/ Bigger picture of our transportation plan... complicated matrix of different ways people get around and transit is an integral part of that. Atkins/ The overall transportation plan means all forms of transportation. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of March27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 3 Nov/ Transportation system which is integrated. Atkins/ ..... Where you choose to spend your money .... part of the transportation system .... Kubby/ Get back to the thing about convenience .... some people, their only transportation .... Thornberry/ You are saying there is no alternative then? Atkins/ Selected groups of service users. Thornberry/ I don't buy that...there are always alternatives .... Kubby/ Arkins/ Selected groups of service users not unlike senior Center .... We, as a community, make selected groups and we provide services for them. Kubby/ ...federal law says you have to have paratransit. In a certain way it is necessary. Arkins/ This isn't so much debating the merits. It is just sort of understanding what public transportation. We are trying to figure out what is on your mind so that we can fashion services around it and what you think of it. Kubby/ I want it to be useable by everybody .... Atkins/ Available to everyone but focused more on others .... We are also saying we are locating the system based up on need... We will run a bus to this particular neighborhood because those folks are transportation dependent .... Norton/ ...growth question .... available to everyone .... Atkins/ You truly meant everyone .... availability is an issue for debate .... Nov/ Difficult to make at some point. Arkins/ Are there any other factors? ..... Lehman/ I really thinks there needs to be a cost benefit relationship. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 4 Arkins/ I think that is market driven. Le]~an/ Not a controlling factor .... Atkins/ Nothing is a controlling factor other than if we have not money as a community, then there are no services. Kubby/ .... more accountable... justify our spending the money .... Atkins/ For example... we have chosen in this community to have a small Fire Dept. which we do .... We choose to do other things to protect our citizens .... Any others... Nov/ Environmental quality issues .... Atkins/ .... when we have buses we have fewer cars... less pollution .... the whole thing .... Nov/ Natural gas power... more efficient .... Norton/ Kubby/ ...economic benefit. Atkins/ This is just for you to hear amongst yourself the kind of things that motivate your decision making .... (refers to chart) .... Clearly as government officials .... you are use to seeing transportation issues with regularity .... (Refers to chart) .... Is there anything else we need to add to that? .... The next thing we need to move to is to identify for you our current policy/financial problem because out of that you have to build options .... Kubby/ I feel like we are doing Vision 2000 statement ..... read it out loud or have copies .... Atkins/ Jeff staffs that particular task force. Do you want to spend a couple of minutes? .... Jeff Davidson/ I will provide you with a copy of that. I think it would be fair to characterize the Vision 2000 statement as certainly concurring with-part of overall transportation statement. That was how transit was emphasized in that statement... clearly did state that fixed route paratransit and paratransit system was part of the mix .... Norton/ Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 5 Davidson/ I really think this is the one that it focuses on (refers to chart). Kubby/ Emphasized that it was available to everyone in that. I think we need to listen to them .... acknowledge that when we ask citizens along a political spectrum what is their consensus about transit that they said blanket service and we are going to do something different .... Atkins/ And you have that political question and you have that finanoial question .... Taxes pay for it, should it be made available to me? Taxes pay for it. When you look at public services .... two very distinct categories. Those that you make available because it is important to the character and quality of the community. Those that you have to do .... because the public just simply doesn't have another option .... because there is no realistic alternative .... Kubby/ It is just a small paragraph, right? The overall statement. Jeff, could you just read it out loud. Davidson/ The only thing I might add .... I think there were elements in the Housing and Social Services Task Force that also addressed transit as being an important component of the systems that we have in those areas .... might want to refer to those as well... One that I was referring to in here "Maintain our high level of transit and paratransit service .... transit service to be frequent enough, extensive enough and late enough in the evening that transit is perceived as a reasonable alternative to the automobile." Atkins/ I added the statement social and economic policy affected .... Okay, anything else you can think of on that? Thlsrepmsants only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthalowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 6 Posts chart: Chart Convenient means of movement of our citizens Available to everyone focused to more than others Market driven (cost benefit) Demand driven Encourage use of public transportation Necessary public service Unique co~mmunity expectation Unique reputation- public transportation Part of overall transportation system Selected groups of service users Environmental quality Social/econ. policy affected Atkins/ I would like to move to what are the issues. An understanding, a collective understanding of what the issues are with respect to public transit and that is fixed route and paratransit .... Okay, ready to move on. Next step of what the issues are and I would like to pay some what of a role by starting out. We know for sure we have a declining revenue base. We have less money coming in that we have had in the past .... declining revenue base. As a percentage of growth in population, ridership has not gone up. The base from which you are drawing has declined compared to the number of citizens that you served ..... Norton/ You are talking fare box basically. Atkins/ That' s revenue. of everything, the now. That is money coming in .... When you think base-If you don't agree with me, tell me Baker/ Atkins/ Is it open ended? I don't know the answer to that .... Kubby/ If we would choose to put even greater General Revenue or divert money from something else at greater levels .... Atkins/ Based on current policy, we have declining revenues .... current policy. Norton/ Okay, that is a fair difference. This represents only a reasonably accurato transcrlptlon of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996, WS032796 March 27, 1996 council Work Session Page 7 Atkins/ So based on current policy, declining revenues. Question is, is it open ended? .... What other problems do we have? I believe a problem is that we are not experiencing ridership increase. That it is a flat line. Nov/ And as a proportionate, it is even decreasing. Kubby/ .... paratransit ridership has increased ..... Atkins/ Paratransit is a very expensive program for 50,000-60,000 rides a year. Fixed route 1.5 million boardings .... The ridership increase is just not happening. Norton/ Put a big question mark. That is a bad one. We have got to be doing something wrong. Atkins/ Or the public is telling you how to use the service. There is a miss match somewhere that we are trying to figure out.. Any other things, problems? Kubby/ ...This creates a financial challenge that more and more people who are qualified to use SEATS are getting out and about in the community... that is costing a lot of money... I like that people are out in the community but it is costing a lot of money the way we are getting people around .... It is a challenge. Nov/ Do we want to redefine qualifying rules? ..... Kubby/ Atkins/ Our system allows that set of events to occur for people ..... Nov/ We can say our definitions are a problem. Kubby/ Arkins/ Who we serve is a problem ..... The people we are trying to provide a service for are causing us a problem. Kubby/ I refuse to accept that way of saying that... challenge to the city financially that so many people in specialized services are using the service .... How do we maybe shift how we provide services to people so that we can still provide the service? ..... It creates a challenge. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate trenscrlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 8 Nov/ ..... expand the question... I don't think it is just paratransit. Norton/ Funding for transportation... source of a funding... social ' transportation ' service... service. Atkins/ When we say those served, social, economic and transportation policy all come together .... Trying to find a better way to say that .... Kubby/ Atkins/ ...I don't have as much money coming in to do the things I want to get done .... We know there isn't as much money coming in and there aren't as many people riding as we would like to see ride .... Nov/ You are talking just about the fixed route ..... we have to truly define what these challenges are. Vanderhoef/ .... the challenge is also the increase of ridership in paratransit. Atkins/ Paratransit is not increasing dramatically. The paratransit cost is increasing dramatically .... It is going up but not off scale. What is causing SEATS to go up is change in labor rates and other issues that have been beyond your control .... Thornberry/ Kubby/ 32,000 riders in FY87. 60,000, that is almost double. Atkins/ But the cost has gone up probably four times, three and a half times. Norton/ ..... here is a problem where we have a small ridership with an intense need .... intensity .... Atkins/ Kubby/ I have a couple of other challenges. U. of I policy about transportation. Their parking, commuter lot rates .... Atkins/ Iowa State has been far more stringent .... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 9 Kubby/ .... this cultural move to total try to be in control of your life .... car culture. I want to go where I want to go, when I want to go and how fast I want to go. Arkins/ I like car culture. Kubby/ And it is a challenge to our transit system .... Norton/ I was going to ban them. Atkins/ What else on problems? .... Kubby/ How to communicate with the community about- Atkins/ Marketing is a communication process ..... I want you to do something, I want to change your behavior. Lehman/ We have both very short term... longer term problem .... car culture is obviously a long term kind of thing .... Atkins/ What else on our problems? .... Kubby/ Our car parking policies and how it relates. Atkins/ City parking policies.. convenient target .... parking policies is a convenient one .... Kubby/ ...integration and cause and effect between our transit policy and parking policy... one affects the other .... There is a relationship at least .... Lehman/ Relationship is very minor. Population grows, bus ridership stays the same. Automobile usage goes up and up and up. Atkins/ ... Okay, any other things? .... This represents only 8 reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 10 Posts chart: Chart Based on current policy declining revenue is it open ended? Ridership increase- not happening fixed route paratransit those served-? soc/econ/transportation U of I policy on transportation/parking Car culture City parking policies- transportation one affects the other Atkins/ We have looked at generally how you feel about public transit issues. We looked at what some of the problems are. Now the question is what kind of options? .... Options. Policy options available .... breaking these out. Two factors, each with two components. Long term, short term, paratransit, fixed route .... long and short applied to both. Those served, same thing. Current financial policy, what we are doing today. Our revenues are declining .... Kubby/ Fare box will not balance system. Vanderhoef/ We are at maximum taxation. Atkins/ ...You are not at maximum taxation. You are at maximum in the sense of $.95. You can choose to use the 8.10 levy .... We can say maximum transit levy. Nov/ We are also levying 8.10 way to increase transit allocation. and we cannot increase that... only allocations is to decrease another Atkins/ That is my point... tradeoffs that can be made. Kubby/ Baker/ There are other sources of revenue for transit .... Nov/ At the moment we have maxed out what we can do with tax .... Kubby/ Part of our current financial policy is transferring $90,000 from parking. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelown Citycouncil meeting of IViarch 27, 1996. W$032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 11 Atkins/ Okay. Norton/ What can you count on on the way of state grants? Atkins/ The operating assistance... Under the current law it is a proportion of a set aside of the gasoline tax, state use tax .... Sale of new and used vehicles .... 1/20th of the first $.04 of the State Use Tax on the sale of automobiles to put into a fund. It is then distributed... buy more cars and get more money for transit. Nov/ Norton/ Atkins/ Registration fees operating assistance .... that number ..... Norton/ for cars are based on value .... But state it is flat... it is going to be about CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-43 SIDE 2 in there? gasoline .... Kubb¥/ Nov/ What is the middle one Atkins/ Operation, payroll, Kubby/ Atkins/ Posts chart: Chart Options long/short* L/S -Fare box will not balance system L/S -Max transit levy S/L -Use of 8.10 max. available S/L -Use of Parking Revenue L/S -State operating assistance S/L -Federal $- capital/ops/grants L/S -Reserve Atkins/ Okay, current financial policy... fare box revenues, transit levies, our 8.10, use of parking money, state and feds This represents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthe laws City council meeting of March 27,1996. W$032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 12 provide money and we use our reserves. That pretty well summarizes what we have available to us. Okay. Fare box revenue will not balance the system and that is a given... both long and short. Maximum transit levy, long and short in my judgement .... source of money .... how do you measure the resources assigned .... at least inflation adjusted. The use of the 8.10... switched it for short term to long term. In the short term you are okay. Long term you may have a problem with this because the demands of other services ..... that is going to be much more difficult to rely on. Kubby/ Atkins/ Parking revenue, short term $90,000 but you have to build a parking ramp, a number of other critical issues .... The long term that cannot be relied on ..... diminish its value to your overall financial policy. These two can sneak up on you ..... great deal of bearing on what kind of services you can finance. State operating assistance, I don't know what to tell you on that .... steady. Short term is favorable as a percentage of your overall revenue ..... It has been a steady source of income. Kevin Doyle/ The state STA Assistance is formula based... Any change in service... would have an impact on your amount of State Transit Assistance ..... Formula based... one pot of money that is divided up amongst all of the systems .... It is not population based. Atkins/ Federal money. Operating assistance I think we have been given clearly our marching orders. Grants we are in a competitive environment... short term when it comes to capital we are okay. When it comes to federal operating assistance it is gone and it is- Kubby/ I don't understand it ..... It is important for us to make an attempt to put pressure on the National League of Cities... on our citizens to be lobbying .... pie is same size. It has just been shifted around to who gets what .... There is nothing wrong with a local government organizing its citizens to lobby and I think we should attempt to do that .... Atkins/ Politically that is certainly your call .... bottom line remains... in the long term we have been told that money is in jeopardy. Kubby/ .... we still need to make changes to our system .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27° 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 13 Atkins/ I have not problem with the legislative process, pursuing it as aggressively as you want. I am trying to give you a realistic financial assessment. You are going to lose 10% of your revenue .... We believe the capital moneys will likely remain ... and we have maintained sufficient borrowing and debt capacity for us to replace our fleet .... We will have going into the next decade a modern up to date fleet paid for substantially by the federal government .... that is a good sign... get into the next decade in good order .... a modern fleet of equipment and that is to our benefit. Nov/ Looking to the future .... special bond issue. Atkins/ Right now our policy is we do not have moneys set aside... We will monitor our cash position constantly... When we buy these five .... Doyle/ (Can't hear). Atkins/ The five is not a given. We feel reasonable confident. Let's assume everything goes well in the capital purchase .... It is going to be the latter part of the decade before we have to go back out and buy some more buses .... 2007-2008 we may have to start another major complete replacement. Norton/ Atkins/ .... Finally, reserves. We try to maintain a reserve position .... in the 6% of your operating expense category. You could not do anything to the system right now ..... your reserves would be gone within a year. Then the fund becomes insolvent .... Norton/ What is the reserve at the moment? Atkins/ Should be in the $200,000 range ..... Norton/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Capital reserve fund .... Have we been able to pay for our bus purchases, a 100% from that reserve. Atkins/ Our share, yes .... the 20% .... Kubby/ ...we are going from 0% of borrowing of money to 100%. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 14 Atkins/ That is correct ..... increases the cost of particular equipment because you have to pay borrowing on it. Kubby/ Atkine/ The financial policy, I think we are generally in pretty good order on what those issues are. I want to come back to that .... give us a direction, goal or target. I want to move onto the next point which is in ridership ..... Let's talk about ridership .... Ridership has a direct bearing on fare box .... ridership is flat with respect to the fixed route, increasing with respect to SEATS. What are the financial implications on that?... general public is called upon the raise taxes .... more and more each year. You have a short term problem with long term consequences... You will be setting a tax policy if the service levels are not changed .... I have not gotten into political questions of willingness .... Carve up this issue of ridership. Is it market driven? .... it translates into money into the system. Nov/ Are you looking for solutions or are you looking for problems? Atkins/ How do we get at the issue? If you want it market driven, we can certainly do that ..... fulfill the unique community expectations and reputation that you believe it has .... Give us some direction. Ridership is a revenue .... an important part of the money that comes into the transit system .... Norton/ .... Marketing would be one thing to put on there .... I think it is important. Kubby/ ..... students .... promote .... Nov/ Kubby/ ...cultivate a market. Atkins/ Marketing is something that we will do... expense .... Lehman/ How much do we spend for marketing? Davidson/ Make one distinction between marketing and advertising .... Marketing is trying to make sure that what you are providing to the public serves their needs the best that it can. Advertising is just taking what you have and publicizing it and I think that is a very important distinction .... In Thisrepresents only areasonably accurata transcription ofthelowa Cltycouncllmeeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 15 Nov/ order to market the transit service better, we have to respond to consumer preferences .... fast... convenient .... That will take money... making the service more convenient. Atkins/ ...If the transit system was paying for itself... But because we rely on so many other sources .... other policy decisions that you have to make .... Thornberry/ In the short term you will get more ridership, in the short term you will not be able to sustain it .... You can't sell your pottery for half price forever .... Kubby/ No fare transit ..... there are ways to think about it .... Norton/ What are we looking for here, ideas or problems? Arkins/ .... Advertising and marketing .... We don't market paratransit .... Nov/ Another ridership concern is the continual change in the community .... transient .... Atkins/ New faces in and out .... Thornberry/ People moving from one part of town to another every year. Atkins/ Collectively we have said we are willing to spend some money on advertising. We are willing to promote the fixed route system. Marketing is .... it means everything. Norton/ It is a matter of focusing .... Trying to focus these things in the areas of high ridership .... thin out areas of low. Vanderhoef/ .... summer orientation time .... allow parents to realize that this is a available .... Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ Norton/ Still car culture. Dealing with the car culture. This represents only a reasonably accuratetranscription oftholowe City councilmeeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 16 Nov/ Atkins/ Many ways that some of these issues could be resolved and involve the university policy and transportation .... university chooses not to provide housing for all of its students .... aggressive active rental market in our town. Many university policies .... We need to decide which of those can we do something about and which can't we. I think it is useless to tell an 18 year old kid don't bring your car to school .... Norton/ ' in ridership student population .... increase ....... Atkins/ Tap the available markets .... fare box is simply not going to cut it ..... Kubby/ Think about... peak times... running at the right places and the right times .... Insuring that our routes getting to the right place... right time... Atkins/ We have a financially viable public transit system at peak time .... We do good .... Hawkeye .... Kubby/ ...have a larger affordable housing complex .... Lehman/ Kubby/ Arkins/ I want to call back, stay with the issue of financing. We have an understanding that the fare box is jut simply not going to make it .... If you raise the rates... needed some money .... Lehman/ ...right product... right consumer .... the right product .... I think from standpoint, we are doing our job. are we not offering an administration Kubby/ .... ads .... we have some ads where some of our employees are younger .... Lehman/ Kubby/ Atkins/ .... Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 17 Norton/ Steve, the point you are trying to make is the ridership is not going to change dramatically. Atkins/ I have not seen in 5-6 years of the current effort .... '85 was out big year of 2.2 million and then it dropped ... and flattened out .... Ridership... 1.5 passenger boardings... How many human beings, bodies, are we talking about .... D.t. that is where we take them. Norton/ Relatively flat ridership... and restrained resources .... Atkins/ We have thought about it... that is fixed route. I want to talk paratransit route issues, too. Nov/ I think our ridership will change as we become wheelchair accessible on all of the buses. Atkins/ No it won't if you have a very liberalized policy on SEATS .... Other thing, lift equipped fixed route system is not going to be as efficient as the current system... going to be off schedule. Nov/ ...makes decreased ridership .... Atkins/ ...It will affect the efficiency of the system .... Posts Chart: chart Ridership Marketing +/advertising fixed route Transient/turnover Tap all available markets Peak time vs. during day Para-transit · Fares * Ridership policy Atkins/ Paratransit ridership. We do not advertise. We do not market. The reason is we don't think we have to ..... Marketing .... I believe paratransit is a very very important policy question... Who are we trying to get at .... important This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18 issue. Market, I think, is an important question for paratransit. Transient turnover is not as critical .... folks... 10ng term resident .... Tapping available markets. That becomes a social economic policy. Are we providing the ridership to all of those to who you believe by policy should have this service made available to them. Is it done peak time or during the day... done on demand ...... Biggest thing.. is the financial... number practically beyond your control. And your policies have a direct bearing on that number. Baker/ It is beyond our control but our policies determine the number. Atkins/ You have a contract with an outside firm, being the county ..... The dollar figure we spend on that service is dependent upon the efficiencies and the decisions by a third party. Your policies are given to them and I don't know how effective they are administered ..... SEATS is about $600,000 a year for about 20% of your transportation budget. 20% serves 50,000. The other 80% serves about 1.5 million. Nov/ Fares are an issue under paratransit .... Atkins/ Your point is the fare box revenue drives that service substantially .... Norton/ Eligibility. Atkins/ All of the issues ..... I can give you a list of paratransit issues as a separate item: fare box waivers, age limits, 3/4 mile service, cab service, doctors certification .... all issues that translate into dollars .... who is serviced by paratransit. Kubby/ ...shift ridership .... Atkins/ Getting folks to do that when SEATS picks me up when I want to be picked up .... Kubby/ You have to plan your SEATS ride... not as convenient. Atkins/ It is a scheduled call and I think that is the important thing .... Law says you will make it available for those folks .... put them on fixed .... Kubby/ ...we save a substantial .... If you shift a significant number of people ..... Thisrepresents only aroasonably accurete transcription ofthelowe City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19 Atkins/ If you are going to make that shift, you have got to change your policies on the operation. Thornberry/ .... If you shift the ridership down from 60,000 down to 58,800, your costs will go up, cost per ride will go up. Lehman/ If it were out system .... but we are dealing with a third party provider .... Thornberry/ If our SEATS ridership went up, our per cost would go down .... Nov/ We have a policy that if the paratransit vehicle if full, we will send a cab .... I doubt that we are going to do much in the way of increased and decreased cost per ride. Atkins/ Ridership policy has a direct bang on financing. Norton/ ...Belaboring something we pretty well have a handle on .... Atkins/ I didn't have a sense that you have a handle on it in making those decisions. Council (All talking). Atkins/ Financially, in looking at our chart, we know fare box is not going to make it .... riders... Your policy appears to be that you will maximize the transit levy... that you will use the 8.10 as a balancing policy .... You have chosen to use parking revenue up to a maximum of $90,000. We understand that the state money is flat and federal money is gone. Seems to me you have reached the point where you are going to have to make policy decisions on the operations of the system, both fixed route and paratransit. We need to confirm what is acceptable to you in these options ..... Bottom line is you are not going to let the transit fund go insolvent. Norton/ Steve, I think it would be helpful to put down the percentages that come from those sources .... I have got them right here. There are just six of them (creates list of percentages). Atkins/ Posts chart: Chart #5 44% Transit levy Thisrepresents only oreasonably accurate transcr{ptlon ofthelowa City council maetingof March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20 8.5% State, local- use fees 7.5% Fcdcra 1 25% Fares 12% General Fund $% Parking 93% Norton/ If you drop that 7.5% federal .... Letu~an/ Atkins/ 93% if we leave the system the way it is, you have got to make up that difference. That is our new financial target .... That is the hole that you have got to plug .... Thornberry/ Can part of the 93% be picked up in fare increases...? Norton/ ...we have already picked up some in the General Fund .... Atkins/ ...Make no changes and your fund goes to zero balance at the end of the year. Bottom line is you got to make changes. Vanderhoef/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Policy about taking money from parking to transit .... good long term tool ..... Weren't robbing the Parking Fund from its future facility .... Atkins/ It was only for three years .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-44 SIDE 1 Nov/ You can probably justify increasing the rates on parking .... Atkins/ Of these item the only two that you any- Well, you have discretion in three areas: to increase the parking contribution; you can increase General Fund contribution .... and the fare box and you have already bumped it to $.75 .... Do you want to spend $600,000 on bike paths when you can use some of that cash...? a cash resource ..... It is like cutting out a service. Lehman/ .... One of the options which is rather painless .... identify larger issues. This represents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of Match 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page Arkins/ We can get you through this year. The reserve will be gone. Lehman/ Jeff .... One of the options .... reduce service. Davidson/ Joe and Ron prepared some alternatives for the last discussion .... also address some of the concerns that Dean had. Lehman/ Joe Fowler/ The one proposal was a combination of- Atkins/ Are you prepared now, in your minds to get into making the official decision, direction .... on the options? Thornberry/ Sooner or later the decision is going to have to be made. The sooner the better. Atkins/ Today... trying get to clear a lot of the cobwebs out, get us to what choices do we have .... If you are down to choice- Nov/ We need to make some decisions. Kubby/ ..... How do we do what we do more efficiently? ..... So that internally we have done ..... how to organize things... How do we, within our decision making today, look at some external things as well as internally .... When are parking rates going up at the Univ~rsity? When are we expecting to do parking rate increases for a new facility? ...... Atkins/ Your biggest resource is the cost of the employee and that is subject to collective bargaining... we have a three year contract now. Work rules are set for negotiation .... takes a little longer... I agree... all of these external forces have a bearing upon the efficiency of our system and we will certainly make a better effort to try to tie all of those together Norton/ ..... How big should our tax- Right now if you take property tax, $14 million, and you look at our transit thing .... We are putting about 13% of our property tax into transit. Arkins/ I think I can give you that number. Norton/ Thisrepresents only aree$onably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996, WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 22 Atkins/ Analysis of property tax and we estimate FY97 that it is about 12.5% of your city property taxes go- Norton/ Compared to what? Atkins/ We did police over the last 10 years has gone from 25.6 to 27.6. Transit has gone from 9.2 to 12.5. It is growing more rapidly than other services. Fire is virtually unchanged ..... Library has gone up from 12.7 to 16.1 .... had .27 levy tax .... Kubby/ Can you make a pie chart of that? Arkins/ Sure. Norton/ I am trying to get a handle on what is reasonable in terms of general support for transit. Atkins/ You try to measure the resources assigned .... What percentage of your total property tax bill goes for a particular public service? ...Has transit grown more than other services? The answer is yes. Norton/ I just don't know how to think about how much a city ought to spend on transit .... Atkins/ ...so many factors with respect to property tax that are beyond your control .... People's taxes are going down .... so what do you want to do? We have fixed route service options and you have paratransit operating policies. They have to be changed if you are going to balance the budget. Norton/ Didn't you have a series of questions... 13th memo... Nov/ All right, do you want to just start with #17 Just go through the outline discussion. We have done some of that. Atkins/ A lot of it you have done. Nov/ We have not answered some of these very tough questions. Can we afford to market transit service to persons who have an automobile knowing the automobile is going to be their preference? This is a marketing question. Atkins/ I think you have told us we can't afford not to try. I think we have to go after those folks and try to get them out of their cars regardless of car culture that we are facing. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032795 d~ March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23 Lehman/ ...also depends on how much money you want to spend to that end. Kubby/ ...If parking is cheaper and more convenient, that marketing is not going to do anything unless we make some adjustments to make it a clear choice for people. Lehman/ Atkins/ The parking fund is basically a d.t. issue. Public transit is supported by everybody. If you have parking...district in which we were making money- Does d.t. bear the burden.. to what extent does dot. bear the burden? Kubby/ They also get a disproportionate amount of benefit from the public. Atkins/ We chose to ... funnel all the traffic d.t .... Norton/ ... We cannot sit here and not The question is how much to spend encourage use of mass transit .... encourage public transit. on it .... We have got to Nov/ .... where should the bus go ..... change in our marketing strategy .... Norton/ Down to the where question. Atkins/ I am hearing you say market it to the maximum extent we can .... Okay, but how much are you going to spend on it...? Kubby/ ...I would say targeted marketing. Nov/ Do we know that this eastside Loop has brought in 25% from the fare box or more or less? Davidson/ ... We turned that service back to just a few trips ..... fairly efficiently. Probably over 25% return but is because there is only a few trips .... Cut your service down to just peak hour rush hour service, you have a very very efficient service .... Nov/ Kubby/ The way we have done that target service has been fairly efficient... Has it paid off? .... Thisrepresents only areasonobly accuratetranscription ofthalowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24 Davidson/ Has it paid for itself, no, have expressed me to it is very kind of a political question for nothing well. The people... much appreciated... That is you as well. Kubby/ For those kind of targeted services, I like the idea .... other kinds of ramifications. It means parents aren't driving their kids... becomes neighborhood issues as well .... Atkins/ The school district can solve part of the problem. Change their policy from one mile to a mile and a half and start taking all those people in. The school district has said after a certain period of time we don't provide transportation kid .... I agree with targeted service and I agree with the marketing but we have other governments that are working against that and their policies. Kubby/ .... Specific targeted marketing to capture... that helps that fare box revenue go up. Norton/ Do we sit down with the school board? .... Arkins/ The policy of encouraging people to ride the bus has not changed... more enthusiastic today .... Understanding there is some implications on that because you have created a demand. Kubby/ ...more buses... how do we target... marketing during off peak hours? Nov/ We have incentives now for elderly with their social security cards to ride the bus during non-peak times. But we are also saying they can call the paratransit service .... We are at odds .... Arkins/ Target the marketing, target the services ..... I sense some agreement on targeting the service. Nov/ I think we have to do some of that .... Arkins/ Targeting services begs the next question. Should transit service be made available to all residents of Iowa City? Nov/ At all costs? Atkins/ Availability is the critical word. Kubby/ ...How do we get people to use the service that is not there? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscrlption of theIowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 25 Atklns/ Karen, I think you have to decide on your product... that is what we are going to market. If after time the marketing effort demonstrates that I need to change my product, then you change your product .... Kubby/ ...do we do surveys? ..... How do we survey non-riders? .... Davidson/ Through JCCOG I may impart a bit of knowledge. Coralville did exactly that last summer .... area north of interstate. Overwhelmingly the response was 70-80%, for those who do not currently ride the bus they would under no circumstances begin to ride the bus under any condition. Of those that said they could be coerce into using it .... It was by putting more frequent service out there .... Gets back to this whole thing about marketing the system to serve consumer demand ..... Norton/ You just can't have blanket with the frequency and maintain the money .... Cannot serve equal treatment to everywhere. Thornberry/ A follow up question to Coraville's survey. Did they make any changes after their survey? Davidson/ (Can't hear). Nov/ This is again, making it available at what cost .... can't afford to do this for this small number of people. Atkins/ You haven't told me yet what the availability is? Kubby/ We have to keep our blanket peak time. We can start there think° Norton/ Nov/ I don't know there is truly ridership very often at peak times. Thornberry/ What are the areas of peak times? .... 15 minutes makes a lot of difference .... Fowler/ What is our peak times? 6:00 to 9:00 in the morning; 4:00 to 6:00 in the evening .... Our ridership during those times .... Westwinds at 37.5 riders per trip down to 13.5 on 7th avenue. Thornberry/ Reading the March 13th memo from the city manager regarding the changes that have occurred in the Dept. of Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of March27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26 Parking and Transit .... I really appreciate your looking at this diligently and doing the changes that you made. It makes me feel good that you did this .... Changes that you have made are excellent... running a lot better, leaner, stronger dept. then maybe it was a year ago... Getting back to the routes, I think that is probably your call. You know more about ridership and routes than any of us. Given that we say peak, let's go with...6:15 to 9:30 or whatever .... That is the department decision to make. Kubb¥/ Policy decision might be that peak times are the same on every route .... throughout the city .... Thornberry/ They know how to get the buses around .... Arkins/ That is a decision of some consequence if that is where you are going. Thornberry/ Blanket peak. That means we have to cut back other places even more than- Arkins/ We have blanket peak and that is what we do now and you are confirming that ..... somewhere else something has got to go. Nov/ We are currently doing blanket service at this time .... going to maintain the current service in the current expense for peak time ..... change it at another time of day. Atkins/ You confirmed an operating policy that you want to have .... that means the other list of options over here just got a little short. Thornberry/ The options to blanket peak times ...more often at arterials... Norton/ Or you might stop all together at mid-day. Atkins/ ...understand you narrow your other list of options... Kubby/ Do you have like a number that goes with blanket peak time? Atkins/ I want to have some general policy position have got to come back together because we have all of this for you. because you to calculate Norton/ What bothers me about blanket... Rohret Road .... does Thlsrepmsents only oreasonebly accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowo City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27 blanket stop at 218...? Atkins/ Norton/ .... I also think the possibility of blanket peak time not the same everywhere .... Kubby/ When I say blanket I mean the current peak time service .... Nov/ We are not going out to the end of Rohret Road. Atkins/ I read that as demand driven .... Lehman/ I am not entirely sure that we don't need to more clearly define blanket service .... Arkins/ Before we got to redesigning routes .... you are going to have to approve them .... blanket peak time will mean something to everybody a little bit different .... We make our most money, we service our most people and that is when the public demands it. You are saying I want to make sure I don't lose that .... I don't want to cut into that level of service. That is what I heard you tell me .... We are trying to make that service available to everyone, focused more than others .... You are trying to maximize that ridership revenue .... Norton/ You got a school out there on Rohret Road. Atkins/ Windsor Ridge... Steve Bright's... Norton/ When you talk blanket, how far from houses do you have to be to get them to come to the bus? Two blocks? Davidson/ Your blanket was designed in 1976 and at that time the policy council was using .... was three blocks from every house .... You still got the basic system... council de facto policy since 1976 has been not to extend transit service to newly developing areas of which we have had a whole bunch .... We haven't had a lot of requests for service in those areas. Your blanket is a blanket that we had 15-18 years ago. Kubby/ I heard last night 85% of Iowa City are within three blocks. Do we know what the current data is? Davidson/ I bet it is lower than that .... Kubby/ That might be a goal for us. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28 Arkins/ We don't know what blanket means just yet .... Blanket to me is demand driven, available to everyone, focused more on some of the others, encouraging the use of public transportation, fare box revenue .... When you decide that you begin cutting out some of the other. Norton/ Atkins/ Peak hours... 6:00 to 9:00 and 4:00 to 6:00 .... What else? Council/ (All talking). Atkins/ What other elements? Extending service to newly developed areas in the community? .... Kubby/ Has to do with our development policies and zoning policies .... low density .... Nov/ We may want to extend the blanket in areas where there are trailer parks. Arkins/ I see what you mean. We have to review where that demand is coming from and at the same time, to the best of our available reasonably to as many people as we can .... Nov/ Let's make it available to potential users .... Nov/ Any shuttle routes here? Atkins/ That has to be factored in ..... new policy... peak time and demand driven and we shut it down during the day .... Norton/ Lehman/ Look at ...reducing the level of service in the evening and look at Saturdays based on demand. Atkins/ Move to another category of availability and that is evening and Saturday. Council/ (All talking). Baker/ ...give us the most convenient and best service within the budget. Atkins/ I don't know what that means to you, Larry ..... I need to know what is acceptable .... Tell me are there any rules that Thlsrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. W$032795 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29 you want to apply to evening and Saturday? Kubb¥/ Dee Vanderhoef had a really good idea on having Saturday service more like night service. Atkins/ ... we are going to go back and design a system based upon the things that you told me there on what you envision the system to be knowing that you are going to have disagreements on certain elements of it. Is evening and Saturday demand driven? Norton/ Evening has to be... Can't see how you are going to continue blanketing the evening. Atkins/ That is my point... Is it demand driven? Is it to be made to others and focused more or made available to everyone and focused more to others? Kubby/ Evening service is not the same blanket as peak times .... Atkins/ Blanket for evening and blanket for Saturday is not the same thing ..... different set of activities... Norton/ When you talk Saturday... 50 people are desperate for buses on 6:00 on Saturday. If you start at 7:00 instead, what happens? .... Vanderhoef/ I see that as peak time on Saturday. Nov/ On Saturday we get more mid-day riders than we do during the week. Atkins/ My point is blanket means something different for each of these components: peak time, mid-day, evening, Saturday. They are all different .... We can maximize who we are going to ~erve, generate income .... Trying to narrow as much as you can for me. Kubby/ How do we know when we are at the point, we are paying more for less? ..... At same time we are trying to facilitate people using the bus .... Thornberry/ The only way you know it is when you get to that point .... and you start losing .... Lehman/ .... level of service that is acceptable and also a level of service that we can afford. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30 Baker/ .... Is there a message to Steve that council is willing to accept the elimination of routes or services in the evening or Saturday to certain parts to accommodate demand in other parts. Kubby/ That is what he is asking us. Atkins/ Tell me what you want done. Council/ (All talking). Norton/ We have got to run fewer buses at night .... Thornberry/ It has got to be arterials .... Baker/ Vanderhoef/ They already have areas that we are not serving on night ridership and increasing the number of areas that we are not serving is a possibility. Kubby/ But getting service but it is just a longer walk home... Are there opportunities to do that more on evening and Saturday? Norton/ Keep the coverage but thinner .... Nov/ We have an option here... We can operate three buses from 7:00 to 10:30. We can combine routes and we can do this .... we have all of these numbers. Why don't we just say okay, do it. Operate three buses. Kubby/ Is that going to provide the level of service that is needed? I want to see what that looks like. Atkins/ Demand driven... satisfy... collectively .... got to be convenient, demand driven, cost benefit, all of those things. I want to try to satisfy all of those goals for you ..... Nov/ We have options that can be done. We were given that... We, as a council, seem to agree we don't want to stop at 9:00. we really want to continue until 10:30. I think we have made that kind of decision. We have to define routes in order to do that. Norton/ Some of our critics say option #3 is our worse option. I do think that we have to accept some thinning out at night .... Thisrepresents only e reasonably accurete transcription of the Iowa City councilmeeting of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31 Kubby/ There is another option, doing a more skeletal route on evening that still provides service to different sections.. more targeted kinds of routes and arterials .... even be a more skeletal route .... more circuitous ..... Arkins/ I can't give you everyone of your goals on each of these... note of some skeletal. Lehman/ Norton/ One of the things... serving at night... people who know what they need... they are going to have to make some adjustment to their timing .... Kubby/ ... maybe more routes have to be combined .... Baker/ o.. What is your expectation by the end of this meeting? What do you need to know? Atkins/ We are getting close now. We can get together and design a system in the budgeted amount, that 93% number. We know what that number is. We know what our limits are .... blanket peak time.°. change some of those numbers in there. I can give you a system that meets your general principles and this availability question. I need to confirm with you what is acceptable with SEATS .... If you are generally okay with this... I need to confirm the SEATS thing. Posts Chart: Chart #6 Encourage transit target marketing target service (peak hr) What is availability of service Blanket peak time (?) Evening & Saturday- some skeletal Baker/ ...In our prior discussion we had talked about increasing revenue to transit from other sources .... Atkins/ It is not gone. Once you have decided this, we can design and cost it out (refers to chart). Once you have decided on SEATS, cost it out, then I will know what other alternate Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996, WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32 services and how much you might need .... I am not there yet. Baker/ Atkins/ I wanted today to be do you understand we are going to change the system. Norton/ Arkins/ Baker/ Arkins/ Lehman/ We are trying to tailor a system to fit a budget .... Atkins/ I needed to target a budgeted amount .... Council/ (All talking). Lehman/ I really don't think you would bring in a proposal that does less than we are asking you to do .... Baker/ ... bring us a service recommendation based on 93% of the present budget? Atkins/ Yes. Baker/ Atkins/ If you said you were willing to put some more money in... that would be helpful .... Other revenues, we know how they are going to grow. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-44 SIDE 2 Arkins/ Norton/ Are you going to think anything in this process about a $1.00 bus fare at some point? Atkins/ Unless you tell me differently, the answer is no. Norton/ Any other sort of taxation? Atkins/ There is none .... vehicle tax requires a referendum. Sales Thlsrepresan~ only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 33 tax is your call .... They are so far out there- Council/ (All talking). Vanderhoef/ If we get this put out to us at 93%, then we can look for alternatives .... Baker/ Why couldn't we tell him right now to bring it in at 95%? .... Atkins/ What you're saying is I am willing to commit to putting in some additional parking .... Norton/ Council/ (All talking). Baker / Thornberry/ I would rather not max it right now. If he can bring us a proposal that we can almost live with it, 93 .... Why max it right now? Atkins/ Routes are going to be pretty fixed... Norton/ ...a system is too thin... Council/ (All talking). Nov/ I thought we said we are not going to change peak time coverage. We are going to keep it as is and I am hearing Steve and I am hearing some council members saying we are going to change peak time coverage .... I don't think that is what I want us to do. Atkins/ We recognize that peak time coverage is demand driven... don't tie my hands. You cannot change peak time coverage anyway. If that is the case then none of the routes are ever going to get changed. Nov/ But for now, for this year, for this budget, can we just leave peak time as it is? Change some evening routes, get out some publicity .... Atkins/ Then we will change it again next year because we don't have the money to operate the system next year. If you are going to change, take this year to change it. Do it once and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meetil)g of March 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34 have it over. Kubby/ For July l? Arkins/ No, there is no way we are going to get it done by July 1. We have enough money to operate the system .... no change.. for the rest of the year. Nov/ That is not what we had asked for. Arkins/ I understand that. Nov/ You are telling us you are not going to do what we asked for and that is what I am trying to clarify here? Arkins/ ..I am trying to understand your policy position and what is acceptable to you and what is not acceptable to you. Kubby/ For like with the blanket peak time, for this year, I am into keeping as it is in terms of the routes and amount of coverage. But it maybe that what you bring to us for major changes... that how the blanket system is actually configured .... could change... Arkins/ That is what I want to give you .... Norton/ Nov/ ...the coverage... changing minutes and republishing schedules is not a big deal. I really think we have to do something this year and not deplete all of the reserves ... Arkins/ That may be here (refers to charts) .... Nov/ I just don't want to hear that we have no adjustments this year... Arkins/ You are going to have to make some adjustments this year. We Just simply can't ..... Kubby/ How are we getting to what we are going to do this year and what we are going to direct you to do in the next 8 months to prepare? Arkins/ You are going to send us back and we are going to try to carve that up into components to do something this year.. short term and long term... Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription oftha Iowa City councUmeet[ng of March 27, 1996. W$032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 35 Kubby/ .... How do we get closer...? Arkins/ When we propose something to you... I relied what your vision of transit was to try to design a system for you. Lehman/ ...It should be possible to work something out... Atkins/ We will go at it right away. This is a major task .... (Refers to chart). Kubby/ .... Evening service has $50,000 less. And maybe we are adding Saturday to that... Do you need more direction than that? Arkins/ No. I am okay. Council/ (All talking). Vanderhoef/ $50,000 for evening but additional for Saturday. Thornberry/ Saturday you have different riders for different reasons. Atkins/ (Refers to chart). Baker/ Is it clear?... a service proposal where no part of that service proposal is going to have total elimination of evening services? Atkins/ That is what I understood. There is no total elimination of evening ' services .... Baker/ Arkins/ I have mid-day working... I can deal with mid-day now and I know what you are expecting .... Kubby/ So you are going to go back and look at cutting $50,000+ out of the evening and Saturday service starting July 1, 19967 Then you are going to go back and look at the larger system for maybe some major changes? Atkins/ Yes, at the same time. I want to schedule, I want you to have some idea what it all means because if you go to August 1 or September 1 on the Saturday and evening, that is okay. You got enough reserve to get us through. I don't want you to be stampeded into making a decision .... This represents only a reasonably eccurete transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Nlerch 27, 1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36 Kubby/ Especially the big reconfiguration decision. Atkins/ Reconfiguring peak time, mid-day when it comes to informing our community... it may have a bearing on that .... Kubby/ Do we need to work on paratransit policy? Atkins/ I think you need to confirm for us. (Refers to chart). Ohart #7 Paratransit Issues 1) Fare waiver for low income riders increased to half the normal fare ($.75) 2) Age limit for automatic certification eliminated or raised to 70 years old? 3) 3/4 of a mile service area rather than city limit. 4) Increased fare for cab service outside of Iowa City transits hours of operation (work trips only)? 5) Doctor's certification? 6) People certified to ride the paratransit service being able to ride the fixed route for fares all day by showing their ADA card? 7) Continue preferential scheduling for social service agencies? Atkins/ 3/4 mile service... rather than city limits. That is going to change if you change your routes .... Your policy has been the city limits. Kubby/ And the big reason we changed that was for Chatem Oaks .... Nov/ Get DHS or other social service agencies to contribute if they feel that their constituency needs the service. Atkins/ ...we need to talk to Systems Unlimited. We don't do this. We have an agent that does it on our behalf that we have to instruct them .... Nov/ Do we contribute financially to Systems Unlimited? Atkins/ I don't think they get Aid to Agency money. They get block grant. Nov/ There is a tradeoff .... We will not contribute block grant money if we are contributing paratransit service .... This represents only areasonably occurate transcription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37 Arkins/ I think you need to say to us we want those agencies to contribute and I don't know what that number is going to be .... County, they are our agent doing this... We need to fulfill our legal obligation. But if the service we are providing beyond our legal obligation, if so, they should pay. That is what I heard you tell me. Nov/ Particularly if they are contracting for a fixed time on a fixed day on a regular basis .... Kubby/ I don't know if I agree with that. I guess I want to see the figures and what our legal obligation is. Arkins/ ...need to be aware that your position is that we can negotiate and they have an obligation to pay for any of the service beyond that which is our legal obligation. Kubby/ A lot of what that contract is is specific time to get people to work .... Consequence of them having to pay means they can't afford to pay .... maybe those people don't work .... They are broader issues .... Council/ (All talking). Norton/ I thought ... some of the agencies were paying more. Kubby/ ADA says the community is responsible, not the agencies .... Nov/ So the agencies in other cities have been contributing out of the goodness of their hearts. I did ask Ames in particular to send us all of the distribution of their sales tax .... aid to agencies .... We will have a little bit more information .... Kubby/ I think it is an important service for us to keep. Nov/ I think 3/4 mile is not a big deal except for Chatem Oaks, right? Atkins/ You also have that available to everyone, focused on, they all pay, folks that have special transportation needs .... It is the agency- Nov/ That is part of the issue. Chatem Oaks and its residents are not tax payers. They are tax exempt, are they not? Atkins/ I suspect so. Thisrepresents only area$onebly accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of March 27,1996. WS032796 March 27, 1996 Council Work Session Page 38 Nov/ We have, on occasion, asked for a tax exempt agencies to pay something .... Arkins/ That is the county. The county can choose to contribute on behalf of Systems, Goodwill .... Thornberry/ ..I think Kubby/ Completely. Nov/ Yeah, we could do that. Norton/ Age is out of there. Nov/ No, it is not gone... could than what it is. Norton/ They ought to have a professional that they [Lehman left 11:45 PM] [Baker left 11:46 PM] [Thornberry left 11:47 PM] age out to be taken out of the equation. It is gone, isn't it? increase it to something higher certificate from a healthcare can't reasonable expect them Arkins/ We are loosing everybody .... I think seven people need to .... Let's get started on the fixed route. I will bring them back for an informal work session. Kubby/ The general message to the public is daytime service, morning and daytime service is not changing. Evening and Saturday there is going to be some adjustments for this next year while we look at bigger changes to the whole system for the future. Arkins/ That's right. Nov/ I think probably almost exactly word for word what we said a few weeks ago. Norton/ That is r~ght but we have clarified somethings I think. Arkins/ .... I am all finished. Thank you very much. Nov/ Thank you. This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 27, 1996. W$032796