HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-04-08 TranscriptionApril 8, 1996 Council Work Session 7:00 PM
Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, ¥anderhoef.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Milkman,
Boothroy. Schoon, Schmadekeo
Tapes: 96-45; 96-46; & 96-47.
Review Zoning Matters 96-45 Sl
a. Consider setting a public hearing for April 23 on an ordinance
amending the Zoning Chapter to change the use regulations of a 3.09
acre tract from RS-5, Low Density Single-Family Residential, to
OPDH-5, Planned Development Housing Overlay, and approval of a
preliminary 0PDH plan for property located on the north side of
Village Road. (REZ96-0004)
Franklin/ Setting a p.h. for April 23 on an ordinance amendment
changing the use regulations of a three plus acre tract in
Village Green. This is a one lot eight unit portion of Village
Green. It is just setting the p.h.
b. Public hearing on Amendments to City Code Title 14, Chapter 6,
"Zoning," Article J, "Overlay Zones," by creating a new overlay
zoning district entitled "Design Review Overlay Zone."
Franklin/ P.h. on Design Review Overlay Zone. We will discuss later
on your agenda.
c.Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to
change the use regulations of a 1.88 acre tract from RR-1, Rural
Residential, to RS-5, Low Density Single-Family Residential for
property located at 3263 Rohret Road. (REZ96-0003)
Franklin/ A p.h. on the rezoning of 1.88 acre tract from RR-1 to
RS-5 .... on Rohret Road.
Nov/ Is there any controversy on that one?
Franklin/ No.
Norton/ I have some questions about access to Rohret Road. Is
Rohret arterial?
Franklin/ Rohret is an arterial road.
Norton/ How many accesses are we gning to permit then? ....
Franklin/ What we asked them to do was to limit their access
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point .... (refers to map) .... shared access for Lots 2 & 3.
Norton/ Is that the best we can do given our standards we just
adopted where no local accesses like that to an arterial?
Franklin/ We discussed this. We looked at in the context of the
development of the entire area and also taking into
consideration the property that was owned and what would be
needed to provide access to this property and then the
property to the south in the future .... We couldn't diminish
it to any fewer access points. There is some existing
development on the lot. An existing house which is the
critical thing. The intent of the developer, they say, is to
keep this house (refers to map) .... This is a barn which is a
nonconforming structure which is soon as this lot is
developed, that would have to be developed just for a
residential structure. This cannot be converted into anything
other than to just continue to exist as a barn. I guess the
issue for the council is if you are concerned about the
access .... that you could deny the plat.
Kubby/ Having two accesses on to Rohret Road.
Franklin/ What that would then require them to dO.o. would be
taking out these trees and this house and putting in some kind
of a single drive that would go in to two different lots. In
the long run that might not be the best situation. In terms of
the development to the south (refers to map) .... In the county
to the south is Kitty Lee Road which is west of Mormon Trek.
That at some point, what we would be seeing is an extension of
Deer Creek coming south and ..... There would be an east west
road and there would be some kind of connection possibly with
Kitty Lee or that development that is in that area. This would
be the connection that we would have to create a street
network on this side of town and continue on south .... (Refers
to map).
Kubby/ Do we have that r.o.w. south of-
Franklin/ No. That is all something that we will have to gain as
time goes on.
Norton/ ...exiting those three lots to the east to the back to an
access road on the east side. But I don't know if that is
feasible .....
Franklin/ We do have a pattern... there are a number of lots that
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have already developed on the south side of Rohret Road with
single means of access to each one .... This is not optimal.
Nov/ One access already exists and it has been our policy to not
deny an access that already exists, right?
Franklin/ That is true. You can't deny all access. You could limit
it to one.
Thornberry/ Two of those lots are going through the existing exit
now, right?
Franklin/ Yes, lot 2 & 3.
Thornberry/ All we are really doing is putting in one more access.
Franklin/ (Refers to map).
Vanderhoef/ Lot 3 does not connect to the east easement. Is that
correct? .....
Franklin/ ..... (Refers to map). This goes down to another farm
house that is down here.
Kubby/ If someone wanted to convert that barn into residential and
not build another residential, could they do that? .....
Franklin/ That would be a conforming use as
increase the degree of nonconformity. It
structure.
long as you didn't
is a nonconforming
Kubby/ Can you take a nonconforming structure and make it into a
conforming structure?
Franklin/ Yes you can. It would mean moving the barn ....
Kubby/ I had another question about water main fees. It says in the
staff report that a water main fee will be required to be
paid. Since there is no oversizing, why would there be water
fee?
Franklin/ We have, for any new development, a per acre water fee,
$350 some .... Anything else on that one? The commission did
recommend approval as did the staff.
d. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by changing the
use regulations of an approximate .14 acre parcel located at 24 N.
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Van Buren Street from RM-44, High Density Multi-Family Residential,
to R/O, Residential/Office. (REZ95-0016) (First consideration)
Franklin/ First consideration of the rezoning on Van Buren Street
from RM-44 to RO.
Norton/ We need some light here. I need to find where we are at
here. We are in the dark.
Nov/ Just read it out loud, Karin.
Franklin/ (Reads agenda) .... Just north of the Credit Union, north
of the alley on Van Buren. This was the one where there were
some questions about whether parking could be provided and it
can. Okay.
e. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning,"
Article H, "Industrial Zones," to allow the outdoor storage of
recyclable materials in the I-1 zone as an accessory use to a
recycling processing facility by special exception. (Pass end
adopt)
Franklin/ Next item is pass and adopt on outdoor storage for
rec¥clables.
f. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," to
allow temporary real estate sales centers in residential zones.
(Pass and adopt)
Franklin/ Pass and ad0pt on real estate sales centers.
goConsider a resolution approving an amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan by incorporating an amendment to the JCCOG Arterial Street
Plan which adds the extension of Oakdale Boulevard between First
Avenue Coralville and County Road W-66.
Franklin/ Approving an amendment to the Comp Plan by incorporating
an amendment to JCCOG Arterial Street Plan that adds the
extension of Oakdale Blvd. between First Avenue in Coralville
and County Road W-66 or Dubuque Street. We had a discussion
about this at your last work session. The JCCOF Urbanized Area
Policy Board... approved this unanimously at their March 27
meeting. The next step then is to incorporate this into the
Comp Plan since the Arterial Street Plan is part of our Comp
Plan ..... it is not on the alignment.
Kubby/ I am going to probably not support this .... I am not quite
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ready to say I am ready to put this in the Comp Plan ....
because if there are no positive choices, I won't support any
of the choices .... this is premature forme to put it in the
Comp Plan because it creates more pressure for us to do it if
someone wants us to do it. My yes vote... was to go to the
next step of the studies to see if it is feasible to do it.
Franklin/ Well, okay. If there is very many of you that wishes to
do that, it may turn out then that we have a vote on the Comp
Plan that is inconsistent with the Arterial Street Plan which
both the Comp Plan and the Arterial Street Plan, the Arterial
Street being part of the Comp Plan, are policy guidelines and
your placement of it in the Comp Plan gives it no more and no
less viability than your placement of it in the Arterial
Street Plan.
Kubby/ ...If those studies don't come back to my personal liking,
I will probably move at JCCOG to reconsider that motion and
delete...
Thornberry/ I was the hold out on JCCOG until the study was made on
the wetlands area and I would vote... I would make a motion to
defer this until that study came back on the wetlands for that
area.
Baker/ Why do we have to approve this now?
Franklin/ You don't. It is just a matter of consistency of keeping
the Street Plan and the Comp Plan kind of in sync .... The past
council made a decision to incorporate the Arterial Street
Plan into the Comp Plan... The notion was that we use the
Street Plan that is adopted by the Council of Governments ....
That is an appropriate piece to then include in Iowa City's
Comp Plan.
Norton/ Suppose we put it in there... alignment studies come
back... Can we then delete it?
Franklin/ We will take it out .... Scott Blvd is in the plan ....
Nov/ That is way in the future... also a potential city
property ....
Kubby/ Our Comp Plan as it now stands is that we won't annex north
of 1-80 .... Two choices for deferment. Until we do our Comp
Plan this year and see what happens with the 700 acres north
and/or until the studies come back.
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Vanderhoef/ I also spoke against this at JCCOG... I voted for it in
the spirit of getting more information. I asked the county to
look at this whole north corridor area .... We have so much
fragile land out there .... I have a secondary thought is where
that alignment presently sits is probably not a good place to
put it and it is too close to 1-80... lots of reasons in
there. I would defer putting it on to our Comp Plan here at
this point.
Franklin/ So, if I can just understand. Your concerns have to do
very much with the alignment but are not necessarily a
statement about the regional approach to the street network?
That you still endorse the concept of approaching the street
network in a regional.. metro area.
Norton/
Franklin/ Within our Comp Plan we have the fringe area that is
included in our Comp Plan .... So it is all part of that.
Vanderhoef/ Until we have a conversation about our whole 700 acres
of sewerable land north of 1-80, I am not interested in
getting real specific about roads and what parts we may or may
not annex.
Nov/ I have not problem putting it in and taking it out again.
Franklin/ So we will bring this back- Assuming that the vote for
tomorrow night is for deferral, that we will bring this back
when we have a better idea about the alignment and about the
700 acres north of 1-80.
Nov/ Are there four votes to defer this? ... I guess there are. It
looks like it is probably going to be deferred.
h. Consider a resolution approving
County for Woodland Ridge, Part
residential subdivision located on
its intersection with Osage Street.
a preliminary plat in Johnson
One, a 19-lot, 55.95 acre
the east side of Dane Road at
(SUB96-0003)
Franklin/ This is a 19 lot, 56 acre residential subdivision.
(Refers to plat map) .... The property that we are talking
about is south of Iowa City's growth boundary. It is within
our two mile area. However it is not subject to the Fringe
Agreement in this point in time because we don't have an
agreed upon Fringe Agreement in this area. This is in an area
where it previously was Hill's jurisdiction. We recently came
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to an agreement with Hills about what we would review and what
they would review. So we have an agreement with Hills that we
will review this but we don't have an agreement with the
county as to what kind of development will happen here ....
This is where it is (refers to map) .... This development will
have no impact on the realignment of Dane Road in conjunction
with the airport project .... The recommendation from the P/Z
commission and staff was to approve this. The grading plan has
been approved.
Kubby/ Seems like there are going to be a lot of steep slopes that
are graded ....
Franklin/ This is a hilly area. This road exists (refers to map).
This is an existing concrete road... leads to a house that is
right here (refers to map) .... It is hilly... One of the
concerns was that this not be extended off into here (refers
to map... it was unclear how the rest of this was going to be
developed .... The compelling thing here is the fact that this
concrete road is here.
Kubby/ It says we can choose to have the same kind of standards
within the corporate limits. If the Sensitive Areas ordinance
were applied to this subdivision, would it pass that muster?
Franklin/ I can't answer that. And remember the Sensitive Areas is
not a subdivision requirement which is why we don't require it
in the county. It is not part of our subdivision regulations.
Kubby/ But if somebody had a properly zoned area of land and they
came into plat it, they would have to live by the Sensitive
Areas Ordinance within the city limits and we have the option,
the staff report says, of doing that here because .... Hills
has said that we could do that. Correct?
Franklin/ That is right.
Kubby/ So I guess I want to know, if this were within the corporate
limits, would we allow this development in this configuration
via the Sensitive Areas Ordinance?
Franklin/ I can't answer that... because I would have to look at
what all the slopes are .... One of the issues was the fact
that the road is there. If you then impose .... right here is
where you are going to have the most impact (refers to
map) ....
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Kubby/ Trying to look at what is already there .... How close could
we get? .....
Franklin/ Is there direction from the council as to whether you
wish us to pursue that more with this plat?
Thornberry/ I don't understand why you can't build just because
there is a hill or a tree there .....
Kubby/ I am not saying protect one tree or protect a 2% slope. I am
asking if this were in the city, would it be following or
agreeing with the Sensitive Areas ordinance and the answer
might be yes. Staff is saying they don't know ....
Thornberry/ ...with the road being there ... the topography does
not look so sever down in the other area.
Kubby/ I am just asking for clarification.
Thornberry/ Sounds like what you are asking is geez, if it
infringed one little bit on the Sensitive Areas ordinance, you
would vote against it.
Kubby/ I am asking for information so I can choose... how to
approach this tomorrow night.
Thornberry/ Say for example it would...it would impact that, would
you automatically vote against it?
Kubby/ It matters how it impacts it ....
Thornberry/ I suggest you go look at it and drive on that road.
Kubby/ I certainly can do that ....
Norton/ On the first part of it there is a good deal of fairly
level land .... On the right of that road .... looks to me like
it is pretty reasonable ..... When you get down to the cul de
sac you have got further problems.
Franklin/ Larry Schnittjer just said this whole area here is a hay
field (refers to map). Here is where you may have some
trees ....
Kubby/ I don't think it is a pick¥ question.
Thornberry/
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Baker/ ... Sensitive Areas Ordinance .... is a guideline ....
Kubby/ We can make it apply... if we choose to do that ....
Franklin/ The question was, I think it was presented in the staff
report, do we impose city standards or do we impose rural
design standards. That was the issue that we were wrestling
with as opposed to the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. I can look
at how this development would interface with the Sensitive
Ares Ordinance. I guess what I would like to know is if this
is a concern of four council members? If you would like me to
do this for tomorrow night's meeting? I also need some
direction, then, about how we are to evaluate other county
subdivisions and we don't need to talk about this tonight. The
question has come up: Do these subdivision comply with the
Sensitive Areas Ordinance. To do that kind of evaluation
requires staff time, significant staff time. And I need to
know whether your expectation is that is we do that review for
county subdivisions even though the law doesn't apply and that
is for some other time.
Baker/ ....
Franklin/ No, it would not legally apply. But if the question that
is going to be raised is-
Baker/ My question is very simple. Does it legally apply?... It
does legally apply here?
Franklin/ The possibility... we don't have a fringe Agreement here.
I think it is questionable that it would apply legally because
our subdivision regulation, Fringe Agreement or not, are what
applies in the county, into our zoning and Sensitive Ares is
zoning .... I believe... that the Sensitive Areas Ordinance
does not apply anywhere in the county and it is irrespective
of the Fringe Agreement because the Sensitive Areas Ordinance
is a zoning tool. It is not a subdivision requirement.
Baker/ I would like to see a discussion to clarify what we are
going to do ....
Nov/
We can discuss that sometime with the fringe area. For
tonight, I would like a clarification on city standards versus
rural standards. It has been my impression that if we require
city standards, we would not only have a concrete street, we
would have water and sewer lines built in.
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Franklin/ That is right and what we settled on is a staff
reconhmendation .... was a middle ground on this one. That
because the street was in place, even though it didn't meet
the full standards, that we accept it because it would be
better than something that was built at rural design standards
which would basically be a rock road. The standard that was
being used already here was above what would be normally
required in a rural subdivision. So let's go with that ....
Nov/ And they are going to build two more little cul de sacs?
Franklin/ Yes.
Norton/
Franklin/ They are not going any further to the east than they
already are which is that cul de sac to the house.
Norton/
Franklin/ I still don't know what your expectations are for
Sensitive Areas in relationship to this that you need to know
for tomorrow night.
Nov/ I don't think we are going to go with this for tomorrow night.
Baker/ Doesn't sound like a majority but is there consensus on the
council (can't hear).
Nov/ We can discuss that issue as part of the fringe area
discussion whether than part of this particular plat.
Franklin/ We will put it on the work session pending.
Thornberry/ The area is still better that rural design standards.
Franklin/ ...We could have desired full city standards but it
didn't seem to make any sense to have them go back and rip up
the road and put a new road in ....
Thornberry/
Vanderhoef/ This will all be sewers?
NOV/ No.
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Norton/ Septics and everything if we accept this recommendation.
Kubby/ What happens if the Department of Public Health says there
is not a good way to figure out the number of septic tanks?
Franklin/ You mean is they have lots that are platted here that
won't work?... combine lots .... Lot line shifts .... The only
time it would have to come back if the configuration totally
changed or there were more lots created.
Nov/ Is it also possible they could put in a multi-unit septic
system?
Franklin/ Yes ....
i.Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat for Galway
Hills, Parts Three and Four, a 27.77 acre, 78-1ot subdivision
located south of Galway Drive, east of Highway 218. (SUB95-0032)
Franklin/ This is a 27 acre, 78 lot subdivision located south of
the existing Galway Drive. the P/Z Commission has recommended
approval by vote of 6-0. Staff also recommended approval and
I will say this was after a lot of discussion at the
Commission level in light of concerns raised by people within
the Galway Subdivision about the platting of this property. I
think the commission had a tough time struggling with this ....
they had certain obligations to approve the plat because it
was technically correct but understood the concerns of the
people who live in the Galway Subdivision. It was subject to
a grading plan and Sensitive Areas site plan prior to your
consideration. Those items have been addressed. I think you
are aware of the location .... That is the overall layout .....
(Refers to play map). The size of the lots.. is just over the
8,000 minimum square footage for RS-5. This is open space in
this area. It will be private open space .... When Galway
Subdivision was approved... the entire area was rezoned to RS-
5, it was a conditional zoning. At that point we did not have
neighborhood open space requirement. As a consequence of the
conditional zoning, 6 acres of open space were required for
the subdivision. I believe that under the calculations... it
is something like 3 acres that would be required under the
Neighborhood Open Space Plan. So more open space than is
typically required for subdivision will be put in for this
entire area.
Kubby/ What is the acreage there?
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Franklin/ .... Open space-for the private?
Kubby/ Did the CZA specify private or public?
Franklin/ The CZA specified that it be public. That public open
space is 4.8 acres. The public open space is 3 acres down here
and P/R Commission reviewed Galway .... to determine where the
most appropriate location was for open space .... It was
determined that in this location (refers to map) and when you
look at the whole .... with preferred locations as determined
by the committee of P/R Commission. One of the issues.., was
having the open space here in conjunction with Willow Creek
trail that will go east west here.
Kubby/ So they still owe us 3 acres of public open space as other
parts develop?
Franklin/ That is correct.
Norton/
Franklin/ The lower part (refers to map) will be 3 acres .... The
total will have to be 6 at some point.
Nov/ We don't have a commitment for the other 3 acres.
Vanderhoef/ When we looked at this at P/R...section on east... that
is not in the developed area that was contingent to what we
are getting dedicated right now .... So that 3 acre would
become a larger area for open space...
Franklin Outlot 3 which is the public open space is this (refers to
map) .... Storm water... dry bottom... storm water management
easement is here. It is a major portion of the area. It does
include the creek here (refers to map) ....
Vanderhoef/...So how much of this would fill the ... requirements
of neighborhood open space for that area?
Franklin/ In terms of what P/R has accepted, it is these 3 acres
here .... There could be an evaluation... of whether all of
this is legitimate... (refers to map).
Vanderhoef/ There was discussion early on ..... was that in
conjunction with our Neighborhood Open Space Plan .... We
wanted usable .... It was a contingent kind of thing .... That
is why I am asking how much of this land counts for our
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neighborhood open space and how much is stuff that P/R is
accepting .....
Franklin/ There is a memo in your packet from Terry-
Vanderhoef/
Kubby/
Franklin/ He says that the parcel refer to, the northeast and south
parcels, are the parcels that are identified on the pre-
preliminary plat dated February 2, 1995 and that includes 2.56
acres of open space in the northeast and 5.15 acres of open
space to the south .... total obligation of 6 is not going to
include all of this. There needs to be more over here (refers
to map) .... This is where the stream encroaches most into the
development and also this is suppose to be... this line, the
storm water detention basin line, is for the whole
development.
Larry Schnittjer/
Franklin/ Tell me where the storm water is going to the east, then.
Kubby/ So there is 5.1 acres of open space . Only 3 counts towards
the CZA for usable open space.
Franklin/ No. What I am saying is is that the determination has
been that there are two pieces, one is 2.56 acres in the
northeast and 5.15 acres in the south. So the total of that is
7.81. That some of that 7o81, 1.81 acres doesn't count towards
the obligation because it is creek, because it is storm water
for some reason ....
Larry Schnittjer/ The eventual configuration of stormwater basin
will be a minor dike ..... trail will be up out of the water.
The actual storage... all be usable open space. Then the creek
itself will not be disturbed .... (refers to map).
Kubby/ How will the water get from the stormwater basin to the
creek?
Schnittj er/
Norton/ Can you outline that 5.15 that you are talking again?
Schnittjer/ The 5.15 will eventually be about like this .... (refers
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to map).
Kubby/ Some of the letters we got .... confusing ....
Franklin/ What was being referred to and I think the term
preliminary plat was used in one of the letters... was a
concept plan that was- This preliminary plat .... a concept
plan that was brought in early on... was a piece that was
shown to people as they were buying lots.
Nov/
There have been letters... phone calls .... neighbors who would
like to talk to city councilors .... I told them that it is up
to the council. We are not setting a p.h .... but we can accept
public comments on this issue ....
Thornberry/ In the letter from Terry Trueblood it says in
discussing this issue last night .... beneficial to the
subdivision if a neighborhood park could be centrally located
within the subdivision ..... It sounds like from the letters
that the existing residents of the neighborhood were led to
believe that there would higher so that it was more centrally
located for the subdivision.
Franklin/ This was something that was submitted ..... Evidently...
we understand this map was never submitted to council. However
it was used as a guideline for many buyers in Part 1 .....
There is a cul de sac that is shown here. The place where
there is open space is in this area (refers to map) .... This
is the private open space in the new part ....
Norton/ What about the tree line? .... What about access in
addition to the lack of open space? ....
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-45 SIDE 2
Norton/ Requirement for secondary access.
Franklin/ We evaluated this .... At this point .... counts, projected
counts as well as topography and the existing access points.
That we felt we could recommend approval of this without
secondary access at this point. However, I don't think they
can go any farther at all without something .... Question of
what the something is .... (refers to map) .....
Thornberry/ Those topo lines look fairly close together (refers to
map).
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Franklin/ .... The Sensitive Areas Site Plan that was required for
this had to do with a potential wetland down here in the
stream corridor ....
Thornberry/ It would be nice to see a finished plan as opposed to
just a partial plan .... For neighbors that are buying in this
second part of the subdivision, what is to say that the right
side, east, what if that is all as small as it can be.
Franklin/ (Refers to map). The one guarantee that you can rely on
is what the zoning is. For the zoning to change it has to go
through a public process .... When you buy property, the thing
that you need to look at is the worse case under the zoning...
it will be single family detached with no smaller lots than
8,000 square feet .... unless it goes through some kind of
zoning process ..... legislatively...you can do that. That you
require a plat on the entire piece that someone owns when they
come in. That doesn't necessarily guarantee. It requires them
that there be an amended plat. But we are still talking about
a platting process... certain rights under that zoning ....
Kubby/
Franklin/ I am not sure it would be a solution to a problem ....
Thornberry/ It just doesn't seem fair... but it is legal.
Kubby/ ...when you have those rights within the zoning and market
forces change, do we want to force someone to build something
that is not going to sell? .....
Thornberry/
Kubby/
Norton/ Is there anything we can do about access within our
rights?... or about screening?... A transition between some of
the larger lots and some of the smaller lots .... incorporating
another access. Is there anything we can do about that?
Franklin/ In terms of screening, you have nothing in your codes to
require screening between s.f. uses. It would be .... up to the
developer .... for whatever reason.
Nov/ Karin, we did have some kind of tree preservation plan.
Kubby/
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April 8, 1996 council Work Session Page 16
Franklin/ The Tree Preservation Plan had to do with the Galway,
Part 2 and that was for the oak trees ... It was a special
thing that they did as part of that plat ....
Nov/ As I understand there aren't any especially big good trees in
the next section.
Franklin/ That has not been raised as an issue I don't believe.
Nov/
Franklin/ The Tree Preservation Plan was something that was
developed because at the time we did not have the Sensitive
Areas Ordinance .... address woodlands, two acres, 200 trees
per acre.
Kubby/ We have a whole bunch of important single trees ....
Franklin/ In terms of the secondary access, Dee, and wanting to
require more access. You may have some discretion there if you
can say there are specific reasons why you believe it is
necessary here as opposed to some other place ....
Woito/ You are going to have to articulate some health and safety
reason and in terms of the - Arguably you could say that this
is concerns of ambiance and density .....
Thornberry/ What about the argument in one of the letters about
truck traveling existing streets and existing families and
children .... Somebody told one of the neighbors that there was
plenty of room for children to pay and trucks to go i the same
time. Was that actually-
Franklin/ ...I am assuming it was said but I don't know by whom or
what.
Woito/ Dangerous mixture.
Thornberry/
Franklin/ I think the question is are there circumstances here in
terms of traffic that make this unique as a s.f. RS-5
development that it should have another means of access at
this point in time.
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session
Lehman/ .... Can we really bend or should we bend the rules?
Woito/ No.
Franklin/ Secondary access is a policy
adopted law. There is some room for
circumstances equally.
Kubby/
Nov/ A matter of steepness, sight lines, ....
Norton/ Here is a case of kind of
senses .... May need to go back and
access ....
Franklin/ Are you also suggesting that you
Norton/ Yes.
Kubby/ I don't know .... kind of thing ....
Page 17
guideline. It is not an
judgement .... treat equal
inverse density in some
think about our secondary
look at your RS-5 zone?
this kind of development, to me, is an okay
I want to have a little bit more sensitivity
in some of our outlying .... The biggest problem here is that
promises were made that we had no control over... we are not
obligated to fulfill .... We have laws we have to live by ....
So the density issues are not a question for me except because
of the promises.
Norton/
Baker/
Norton/ It is the relationships on a site.
Nov/ But we did not make those promises.
Norton/ I think we could rethink whether we want to permit sublots
subdivision ..... get a bigger picture .... I think they could
be arranged in somewhat easier fashion.
Kubby/ Then it would be our decision whether we would allow a re-
platting or say no .....
Nov/ That is something you cannot commit a future council to ....
Kubby/ My question was are you obligated to say to a change if it
follows all of the rules? ....
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April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18
Baker/ I think they may be completely justified in the discomfort
they feel ..... I don't think we ought to overreact in changing
rules that we live by ....
Woito/ I would also like to caution you about talking about
misrepresentation and false statements .... you don't have
anything here in front of you to prove that.
Baker/
Nov/
The neighbors have perceived a commitment on the part of the
developer and they have perceived that this developer has not
followed the commitment that he gave them and we all
understand this much from having read the letters ..... I am
going back to my first question. Do we want to say at this
point we do understand all the concerns because we have read
those letters or do we want to say we will allow public people
to talk? .... All right, we have agreed we will accept public
discussion tomorrow. Okay .... Tomorrow .... We will have a
couple of spokespeople on this .... We will accept some
comments .... We appreciate the long and detailed letters we
have had.
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WS04396
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19
FY97 CDBG and HOME Funding Allocations 96-45 S2
Milkman/ We can be real quick on this one. Just a couple of things
before Linda makes a presentation. We are dealing this year
with about $1.6 million of combined CDBG and HOME funds. We
have not split them for you .... That amount .... is still
subject to Congressional action .... We also have about
$140,000 of program income this year and $100,000 of that is
from rehab loans .... All our rehab moneys are in the form of
loans. The other $40,000 is the TIF repayment from Villa
Garden Apartment .... money is available for reuse .... We split
the 11ocatlons/requests into five categories and gave them
a
sort of rough amounts of money according to a percentage ....
Commission found that very helpful. Staff did do a draft
budget at the request of the commission .... The p.h. is on the
commission,s recommendations. I will have to let Linda present
those.
Thornberry/ .o. You have recommended funded for these different
areas to the tune of $1,266,928. Could you tell me... what
number does project ranks mean. Is one the highest or is one
the lowest.
Milkman/ One is the highest .....
Thornberry/ Where it says full funded recommended and recommending
funding ....
Nov/ There is some administration in the total.
Milkman/ Or the contingency.
Thornberry/ What happened to all of the money that we allocated
earlier in the year?
Milkman/ That was last year's money. Now we are allocating FY97
money.
Nov/
Milkman/ We are in '96 federal fiscal year which started last
October. This is the allocation of that money because we
never- Our own fiscal year doesn't start until July 1. We are
always nine months behind the federal government ..... This
year we still don't know ....
Council/ (All talking).
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20
Nov/ We have it in our book. Don't worry about the projector.
Linda Murray/ Thank you for being so patient. I just have a few
comments on some of our recommendations .... specifically on
recommendations where we differ from where staff is
recommending.
First one is Youth Homes. We did not recommend funding for
Youth Homes application because we didn't have a sense that
this was a compelling need ....
The Neighborhood Centers, Pheasant ridge facility. We are
recommending $100,000 in a form of a no interest loan and
$65,324 in a form of a grant .... There has been a lot of
strong support for neighborhood centers. I believe it is the
desire of this commision... finish the Pheasant Ridge
facility... not place financial burden on the centers. Our
recommendation is a reflection of this desire.
Tenant Based Rent Assistance Program. We are not recommending
any FY97 funds for this project which I believe, personal
believe, came more from an unfamiliarity of this program... At
our April 4 meeting we voted to recommend $150,000 to this
program should it become necessary to reallocate $200,000 from
a FY95 Burns Fellowship Site Acquisition Project ....
Norton/ So that is a conditional allocation...
Murray/ Acquisition and rehab for the GICHF. We are recommending
funding of $196,490 from F¥97 funds and $50,000 from the
previously mentioned FY95 funds .... In my opinions this
commision if very supportive of the idea that funding for this
project will provide a permanent base of low income housing
which would be managed and maintained by a single entity ....
Norton/ You are recommend $196- plus possible $50- and the $344-
was whose recommendation?
Murray/ The $344- is what they are asking for ....
Finally... Public Services category ..... difficult decisions.
Our recommendations in this category are based on what we
consider to be the best decisions possible in an unfortunate
situation.
In closing, I just wanted to say a few words about our
recommendation to allocate $22,672 in uncommitted
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21
administrative set aside funds for research and planning on
critical issues important to community development in Iowa
City .... planning and research of this nature is imperative in
order to provide the information we need to make .... effective
and wise decisions in these areas. Did you receive a memo on
this subject? ..... Basically it says what I just said ....
given you four suggestions on what from this might take ....
Nov/ You go through them since we haven't read this yet.
Murray/ One is investigation of non-federal sources of funds for
housing and other community development activities. Another
one is determining a living wage for Iowa City .... economic
development. Another one ~s investigating the pros and cons of
inclusionary zoning for development of low income housing ....
Final.° suggestion was collecting data on existing housing
opportunities for households with incomes below 35% of median
and linking this to the development of manufactured housing
parks .... These are just suggestions on what we think are
important areas ....
Kubby/ First three are things that staff is already looking
into ....
Murray/ Impression we got from staff at our hearings was that in
order to do a comprehensive study of these issues, they need
more funding ....
Norton/ Will $22- get it done or is that a number that just
happened to be available?
Murray/ That is the number that happened to be available. We are
hopeful.
Kubby/ I had a question about the Iowa Employment and
Transition why allocate anything?
Murray/ That came from a desire to show our support for the goals
of this program without necessarily cutting into any of the
programs that we were already recommending funding for. That
was a real hard one... a lot of support on the committee to
fund this fully but we just couldn't figure out how to do it
without cutting into programs ..... difficult decision.
Baker/ $22,000 .....
Thornberry/ Is this an all or nothing thing? .....
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 22
Nov/ This has been the past pattern ..... And one of their continual
allocations is money for Down Payment Assistance which I don't
agree with which I plan to ask people to take out and let me
vote on it separately because I will not support it. We can do
that kind of thing.
Thornberry/ There are some things in here that I don't agree with
either and is it an all or nothing thing?
Baker/ Do you want to separate them out for separate vote?
Nov/
I really do ..... I think we are giving our assistance to the
wrong people .... If we are going to offer people money for
down payments, it ought to be done in the market where there
are houses sitting empty .....
Norton/ ...need considerably more background information.
Baker/ Do we need to have a separate vote .... You could express
that disagreement without a separate vote, couldn't you?
Kubby/ It is like the budget. None of us agree with everything in
the budget .....
Baker/ Or four people could say let's take that out.
Nov/ This is what he is asking.
Milkman/ By your next council meeting, April 23, you have to adopt
a complete budget .... has to be sent in. You have to allocate
$1.63 million .... that is what we are expecting to receive and
we have to send that plan into HUD by May 1 for approval.
Vanderhoef/
Milkman/ The maximum you may put into contingency is 10%. There is
already 5% in there.
Thornberry/ What happens if we don't pass this? ....
Milkman/ We don't send one it and we don't have money ..... we just
never get it.
Thornberry/ That is not always bad sometimes.
Kubby/ All of these programs ....
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23
Thornberry/ ...There are some things that I don't particularly care
for.
Nov/ Are there plenty of good things in here? ....
Thornberry/ I don't think we have time to talk about each one of
these items tonight.
Kubby/ ...What specifically do you have a problem with?
Thornberry/ #1 is hers. #2 is acquisition of rental housing. I
don't like to take houses off of the market that are
marketable and buy them with federal funding .... GICHF ....
Milkman/ Let me explain one thing there. That was in two parts. One
was acquisition of existing three bedroom homes that are owner
occupied. The other was acquisition of two bedroom
condominiums which are likely to be rental units and in the
staff recommendation that you got we just recommended that
part of there request and that is the two bedroom condominiums
which are already rental units .....
Thornberry/ if they are for sale I don't think they ought to be
purchased with federal funds ....
Milkman/ The idea is you make them permanently affordable.
Norton/ ...
Kubby/ ... They are trying to fulfill their goal of providing
permanent affordable housing for low income housing ....
Nov/ They are going to go for a land trust.
Milkman/ You have a commission of nine people that spent a total of
12 hours discussing all of the projects ..... I just want you
to understand that.
Kubby/ Are there things people want to bring
them .... Of do you want to take things out
separately?
up ..... change
to vote on them
Baker/ We have all sorts of conflicting signals going on here .....
There are two things on this list that if, myself, had the
choice, I would not vote for ..... I am willing to think these
people put the work in ..... I am comfortable with the work
they did ....
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24
Thornberry/ I am not going to vote for it just because they put in
a lot of hours.
Baker/
Kubby/ I would request... to take the Free Med Clinic out
separately because I would like to abstain from voting on
it .....
Council/
Milkman/ The one project, the Tenant Based Grant Assistance, that
the commission did not recommend any funding for and Doug
Boothroy is here tonight to give you a little bit more
information on that program ....
Nov/ That is one of those I would like to see some funding in if we
can.
Doug
Boothroy/ I obviously was disappointed that we didn't get any
money .... The program that was put together was $150,000 for
25 vouchers for two years. The Planning staff recommendation
was $125,000, 20 vouchers for two years ..... program... is
different than the certificate program... in that it would
allow us to provide immediate assistance... to target certain
population groups that are in desperate need of housing... to
fund utility and security deposits ..... Looking at...
ICARE .... or families that are in critical need of housing
that are homeless .... The other positive thing about this is
that it is .... scattered site, it is using existing housing,
it is money that goes directly back into the economy...
support the landlords... It also maximizes the choices of our
clients in terms of where they want to choose .... The Housing
Authority, I would like to see us get involved in providing
this kind of service...
Kubby/ Used by a single person who did not have a disability?
Boothroy/ .... We have a lot more flexibility because it is HOME
Funds .... We administer it very much like a voucher program
because we have a lot of built in administrative procedures
there .... Does allow targeting special population groups in
critical need... As you know, we wait until the person gets to
the top of the list and we take them in order of application
.... Still go back into providing rental assistance ....
Kubby/ Persons with disabilities, can't they float up higher?
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 25
Boothroy/ No.
Norton/ Why did the commission not fund this?
Boothroy/ Maybe there was not enough explanation given as to the
fact that it allows flexibility .... It is not bricks and
mortar .... It is renewable on a continual basis .... I think
that this is a low cost option and it does provide immediate
housing and we are serving exclusively very low income
families .... These are the families that are at 50% or less of
median income ....
Nov/ You are going to treat this as if it were a certificate and
require a minimum of $25?
Boothroy/ No, it doesn't have to meet that. We do have... a
minimum... Doesn't have to be administered the same way ....
Rules are adjusted according to the way we want to shape the
program.
Nov/ I am asking how do you want to shape the program? Are you
going to require similar kinds of criteria? ....
Boothroy/ No because we are going to provide immediate assistance
..... target special population groups ....
Baker/
Boothroy/ There are people on the waiting list that would quality
for this right now .... We would contact.. ICARE... MECCA and
other groups... right now... have to sign up and you have to
wait.
Nov/ How many families on the list right now?
Boothroy/ It is a 6-9 month waiting list .... 100s of families that
are presently on the waiting list.
Thornberry/ Where are they living now?
Boothroy/ I don't know where they are living now .... apartment...
family members... They are living in this area... hanging on
until they get that assistance .... And they call
frequently ....
Baker/
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WS04896
April 8, 1996
Boothroy/ With the
Norton/
Boothroy/
Thornberry/ Name one.
Kubby/ There are families
Boothroy/ .... thank you.
Baker (Can't hear).
Council Work Session Page 26
HOME Funds... limited to only Iowa City ....
There are some families that are in critical need.
living in automobiles in this town.
Murray/ ... There was a pretty strong belief that this $200,000 in
F¥95 would be available to be reallocated .... fund this
program from that. I don't think the majority of commision
members would be opposed to shifting money around to fund this
program .... We have had some information presented to us...
clarify a lot of the issues.
Baker/ .... shifting come from lowest priority ....
Murray/ I think that there is some feeling that the acquisition and
rehab, GICHF and Tenant Based Rent Assistance Project are
trying to accomplish the same thing only using different names
to do so. Perhaps some shifting of funds between those
projects. Staff took their funds for the neighborhood
center ....
Norton/
Kubby/
Murray/
What about Housing Rehab?...
Another commission member, Ann Donovan ....
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-46 SIDE 1
Ann Donovan/ (Can't hear).
Donovan/ Acquisition and rehab and it is primarily for the reasons
that you are talking about in terms of- I think if the market
has made something somewhat affordable, go ahead and let the
market work.
Nov/ Well, we oan think about transferring some money into those.
Probably not the full amount but we could probably mover
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WS04896
April 8, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 27
around a little bit. Let's wait until after the p.h. and
Juggle some numbers later.
Milkman/ Just a couple of things. There were some commission
members who felt very strongly that the first priority was to
create more affordable housing and that means bricks and
mortar but not to the exclusion of anything else.
Kubby/ The other thing about the Tenant Based Assistance is making
sure we have property owners who will take those funds and
house individual families. Sometimes we have problems locating
cooperative landlords.
Milkman/ I don't think that we have ever had actually a problem in
getting all of your certificates and vouchers used.
Kubby/ ...it is because someone found one somewhere where someone
else couldn't.
Milkman/ ...you have a p.h. tomorrow night. After that p.h. if you
~uld give .... Steve Nasby... give some indication to him as
to how you would like us to adjust the budget .... for you to
discuss at your meeting on April 22 .... in terms of what areas
we could make you a couple of scenarios of where you wanted to
move money from or what you would like to eliminate. If you
could give us some indication so that when you meet again on
two weeks from now, you have got something concrete to
work .....
Nov/
We ought to say thank you to Marianne for all the years
because this is her last turn at this issue. She is retiring
next month. We will miss her.
Milkman/ Believe it or not, I will miss this, ~oo. I think I would
like to add that we hope we will see you all on Thursday
afternoon at Pheasant Ridge Neighborhood Center and
Congressman Jim Leach... new manger from the HUD office for
you to meet .....
Kubby/ ...I have office hours that night .....
Nov/ ...I think they start the program at 4:30 .....
Milkman/
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28
Hiqhway 965 Alignment 96-46 S1
Davidson/ I think most of you are aware that we are attempting to
reach agreement between the City of Iowa City and the City of
Coralville on the eventual alignment for the extension of Hwy
965 between Hwy 6 and Hwy 1. At your work session two weeks
ago there was a majority of council to endorse the east
alignment ..... City of Coralville has already endorsed the
west alignment. You asked me to go back.. ask them what they
thought about the east alignments .... I have done that and
there is at this time not a majority of the Coralville city
council that is willing to vote to authorize their mayor to
enter into an agreement for the east alignment. So they asked
that I come back to you and ask you all how you would like to
proceed .... They would like the opportunity to negotiate this
matter further with either the full city council or a
subcommittee .....
Kubby/ I think we should start with big group ....
Nov/ We could have two councils get together .... I would like to
have an agenda that included transit if we are going to get
the two councils together ....
Davidson/ They don't have work sessions on Monday ..... They might
be able to make a Monday.
Kubby/
Davidson/ ... you mentioned transit.
Nov/ Is there anything else anybody else would like to put on the
agenda?
Norton/ I don't suppose Oakdale needs to be on there, does it?
Nov/ No, I don't think so.
Davidson/ Oakdale has been decided for the time being. I assume we
will proceed with an alignment study there ....
Thornberry/ What was the vote... on the east west?
Davidson/ We counted four that were in favor ....
Nov/ There were four who seemed pretty sure .... not a formal vote.
Davidson/
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WS04896
April 8, 1996
Thornberry/ Maybe
Coralville.
Davidson/
Karr/ °..are we looking
Monday in the next
29th ....
Council Work Session Page 29
we should reconsider after talking with
at an off Monday?... There is only one
two months that everybody is in town ....
Nov/ The 29th sounds reasonable on my calendar .....
Davidson/ Marian, you have their schedule... work with you on that.
Norton/ Do they meet next Tuesday?
Davidson/ They get off sometimes.
Karr/ I don't have all seven next Tuesday.
Baker/ (Can't hear).
Council/
Nov/ Back to the agenda. Does anybody want to put sale tax on the
discussion with Coralville city council?
Council/ (Sure).
Kubby/ It would be .... got all the jurisdictions in Johnson county
together and talked about it ....
Nov/ ..I am asking if we want to talk to Coralville... first and
then everybody else next? We have that choice.
Baker/ ...relationship with other communities ....
Thornberry/ Just so it is not delayed to the point that it cannot
be on the ballot this fall.
Nov/ Sounds like we could put together a little agenda ....
Davidson/ Okay, we will check it out with Coralville .....
Kubby/ I asked Jeff to look up what the vote was because I remember
it was very close at JCC0G about this road and it was a 6 1/2
to 4 1/2 vote ..... U.Hts only has 1/2 vote.
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 council Work Session Page 30
Davidson/ That was in fall of '94.
Nov/ This was not a vote on east or west alignment. It was just
having a road.
Davidson/ It was the Arterial Street Plan amendment ....
Kubby/
Baker/
Nov/ There was some of us who said 965 is better than Camp Cardinal
Road. We did not convince JCCOG membership to vote that way
and they voted to put Camp Cardinal Road in. At that point we
said no, this one.
Davidson/ The first vote was to take Camp cardinal off of the
street plan and that failed and then the second vote was to
add 965 an that passed ....
Nov/
Thornberry/
Nov/ It is not on today's agenda .....
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W$04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31
Desiqn Review Overlav Zone 96-46 S1
Nov/ Someone asked me if Design Review Committee was planning to do
a slide presentation both tonight and tomorrow. So David, can
you answer that ....
Schoon/ It was for just tonight.
Baker/ Why can't they do it tomorrow?
Schoon/ Do it tomorrow.
Council/
Nov/ Most of us have seen this slide presentation... general
public... tomorrow.
Schoon/ There is pros and cons in terms of showing it before you
have a discussion on the issue.
Baker/ Show it at the beginning of the p.h .....
Nov/ Tell us what you think about that idea.
Martin Haynes/ I want the opportunity to do that .... tonight I was
anticipating doing the slide presentation ..... I have had the
opportunity to talk to each and everyone of you about the
proposed ordinance ..... I will be happy to do it tomorrow and
also tonight if you felt that it was appropriate ....
Nov/ We are so far behind on the agenda .....
Baker/ On television tomorrow night .... public
see ..... Regardless of the time constraint tonight,
would be better to show it tomorrow night.
ought to
I think it
Haynes/ ...I can kind of limit my commentary .... some of the
questions have been the mechanics ....
Nov/ I would appreciate that we not have to do it twice .... Get
into the discussion of the ordinance.
Schoon/ (Refers to overhead projector). It is the same overhead
that is in your packet... to guide you. The Design Review
Committee only makes recommendations to the city council on
projects in which the city has either invested public urban
renewal projects and in the Near South Side Urban
Revitalization area, the tax abatement project. The committee
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WS04895
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32
is proposing that all properties in an area- Then we should
consider designating Design Review districts in the d.t. and
Near South Side area. Tomorrow night the slide show will go
into the philosophy behind that. I am just going to go into
the mechanic of the ordinance tonight. What you have before
you is the enabling legislation that will allow us in the
future to designate Design Review districts similar to
enabling legislation for HP districts and Conservation Overlay
Zones .... It allows you to designate districts in only a
specific area of the community and that is the area generally
the d.t. and Near South Side area ..... The Zoning Ordinance
only applies to privately owned property. It doesn't apply to
governmental property .... Both P/Z Commission and Design
Review Committee have recommended that you adopt the
resolution similar to what you adopted with Environmental
Sensitive Areas Ordinance that your intent, as a City of Iowa
City, would be to comply with the Design Review Ordinance.
Baker It would not bind the post office, university?
Schoon/ Correct. First step .... is considering enabling legislation
[Overhead projector problems]
Sohoon/ The next step would be to designate Design Review districts
and in the enabling legislation it outlines that process. The
process is initially a Design Review district report would be
prepared by the Design Review Committee that designates an
area of that bigger area that I showed you ..... They have to
go through this process to designate a district ....
Baker/ How small can you go?
Schoon/ .... Compatibility issues .... it wouldn't get down to a
parcel. A street .... So the process is they would prepare this
report. The report would outline the boundaries of the
area .... It would say ..... architectural significance ....
There are features that are there but there could be
additional features that could be added to create a specific
district. Last part in the Design Review district would be the
design guideline. What would be the guidelines that would be
used to review projects in that specific district. That is why
there are no guidelines presented to you this evening because
that would then be in the next step of looking at a specific
area and determining what are the appropriate guidelines to be
used in that particular area. That report is then prepared.
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 33
The property owners will then be notified of it, invited to
attend a p.h. before the Design Review Committee... sent onto
the P/Z Commision .... P/Z Commission holds a p.h.. They send
their recommendation onto city council. The council holds a
p.h. and the council would adopt or not.
Baker/ Is the district adoption parallel with the guideline
adoption?
Schoon/ Yes.
Baker/ If we would have to vote for a district, we would know what
the guidelines were?
Schoon/ Correct.
Norton/ How long are the typical guidelines? ....
Schoon/ It is a difficult issue... they vary... What the committee
uses now with Urban Renewal Projects there is probably 5-6
pages of guidelines.
Kubby/ It matters if we embellish them with illustrations ....
Schoon/
Baker/ And the development of guidelines, the property owners would
be involved .... ?
Schoon/ The ordinance does not outline the requirements that they
would be ..... it would be desirable from the committee's
standpoint to involve them in the process.
Martin Haynes/ ...very participatory process .....
Norton/ ... only operating with one set of guidelines at the
moment?
Haynes/ Guidelines that we have established .....
Norton/ But you have been following
why are you suggesting so many
Haynes/ ..they may be more than two.
one set for the entire area?
areas? ....
Obviously the CBD has a look,
an architectural fabric that is different than the Near South
Side. The Near South Side is more residential and that is the
kind of architectural character we want to encourage. The CBD
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April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34
isn't like that. The guidelines will be different because of
that and they will be tailored to each district ....
Effectively you have got the CBD as a district, maybe two to
three.
Schoon/ once an area would be established as a Design Review
district, there is then the process that a property owner or
tenant would need to go through in order to receive approval
through the Design Review process. It requires a Certificate
of Appropriateness in order to receive your building permit.
A Certificate of Material Affect... would be issued when a
project is undergoing building maintenance or repair in which
they are replacing the same window with the same window ....
That can be handled at the building permit stage as long as
the applicant has had conversations with the building official
that says what they are doing is maintenance ....
Norton/ It wasn't clear to me whether the owner applies for one of
those two certificates .... or whether the building official
decides .... Why couldn't it just be triggered by just a
building permit or sign permit?
Schoon/ In terms of design issues and the scale of the project, it
would be more desirable to have the applicant come in before
they apply for the building permit given the amount of detail
the applicant would have to go invest into a project .... more
desirable to have them come in earlier in their design process
versus coming in at the point of the building permit in terms
of being able to work with the applicant. So it is not
triggered with the building permit .....
Kubby/ ...important for the community and Design Review Committee
to educate owners of properties... so they know to come in as
early in the process as possible to get some free technical
advice ....
Schoon/ And the committee has talked about the education effort
that they will have to take once this would be adopted in
terms of informing people.
Nov/ Does HP Commission do that kind of thing. They review before
people get building permits?
Schoon/ Yes .....
Baker/ Looking at shaded area on the map .... Ho many properties are
we talking about?
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 35
Schoon/ 225- 250. We sent out 475 invitations to property owners
and first floor tenants in this area .... In some instances...
a new different sign would have to go through a certificate of
appropriateness. It is going to be those maintenance things
that require a building permit. that is the other issue. The
Design Review process only applies to projects that require a
building permit or a sign permit ..... If they are doing
something to their building that doesn't require either of
those it does not go through the Design Review process. The
biggest issue that the committee discussed was painting. A
person is not required to get any sort of permit for the city
to paint the exterior of the building. The committee discussed
that issue .... Those projects that require a building permit
or sign permit have to go through the Design Review process.
So they submit application for Certificate of Appropriateness.
That is filed with the Building Department. It is sent to the
Design Review Committee staff person and it is then, at the
committee's next meeting, considered .... timing issues ....
Application must be submitted seven days prior to the next
Design Review Committee. The committee then has to within 21
days from when an application was submitted, make a decision
on the project .... Under the proposed ordinance, the Design
Review Committee would have the authority to approve with
conditions or deny a Certificate of Appropriateness .... This
new role is similar to HP Commission...
Baker/ In just the regular present building permit process, can
someone walk in and get a building permit the same day? ....
Is there a waiting period or review just for regular building
permits?
Schoon/ In terms of when they submit an application and when they
get the building permit?
Baker/ Yes.
Schoon/ I talked with HIS and there is no minimum time .... They
typically will issue one in 7-10 working days .....
Thornberry/ If you want to finish a basement, put up a sign... you
can get one right away.
Nov/ Roof replacement, too ....
Baker/
(Tape Problem)
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36
Norton/ So roughly they are the same document that you would other
wise submit for a building permit?
Schoon/ No, not necessarily ....
Baker/ Did you say that repair and maintenance will not require
Design Review?
Schoon/ Would not require the Certificate of Appropriateness.
Baker/ Who determines... repair or maintenance?
Schoon/ The building official.
Thornberry/ After a fire... is that a repair?
Nov/ Depends on how bad the fire was.
Thornberry/ Then the Building Department would tell you that,
right?
Nov/
Thornberry/ The Building Department would tell you what you needed
to do as opposed to someone else?
Nov/ I think so.
Norton/ If an owner seeks a Certificate of No Material Affect, why
does the building official have five days to say okay and two
days to deny it? .....
Schoon/ That is for Certificate of Appropriateness that he must
send it on to the Design Review Committee.
Material Affect?
days in which to decide whether it is
Norton/ What about No
Schoon/ He has five
material affect.
Nov/ If the decision
would be it does have material affect,
would then say go on to the Design Review Committee.
Schoon/ Correct. He
Affect.
Nov/
no
he
would not issue a Certificate of No Material
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37
Schoon/
Nov/ And there are some emergency situations... where you would not
have to wait as long.
Schoon/ That we would try to work with the applicant in the
Building Department to make sure the design in compatible ....
The Building Department would determine the degree of
emergency.
Baker/ Five working days or five calendar days?
Vanderhoef/ Everything is working days.
Schoon/ ...adequate amount of time .... That is a real concern...
turn around ....
Baker/ There is a question of what is the workload presently of the
Building Department ....
Schoon/ This is for a year time period .... '93-'94. During that
year there were 12 permits issued in the CB-10 and CB-5 zone.
That is only about half of the total area and then there were
40 sign permits issued in those two zones.
Vanderhoef/ .... urban renewal...
Thornberry/ That was urban renewal property only.
Vanderhoef/ When he is saying 12, that is only a part of what
happened during that time period.
Kubby/ That is not just for the ped mall.
Vanderhoef/
Schoon/ That is CB-10 and CB-5.
Vanderhoef/ The signs were.
Schoon/ ..... everything, not just the urban renewal .... this is
building permits.
Vanderhoef/
Nov/
The question was if there had been Design Review, how many
issue would they have reviewed and that was his answer.
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April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Pa9e 38
Schoon/ Again, that is saying we designate the entire d.t. and Near
South Side. If the committee denies the Certificate of
Appropriateness or would approve a Certificate of
Appropriateness with conditions that the applicant would find
unacceptable, they then have the ability to appeal to the city
council as the ordinance presented before you .... Staff had
taken the position... preferable in terms of the zoning...
Design Review Review Overlay Zone as part of the Zoning
Ordinance that Board of Adjustment acts as the appellate body
for appeals to interpretations of the Zoning Ordinance and
that it would be the most appropriate body to do that°.. P/Z
Commission had recommended the city council and that the
Design Review Committee's last meeting, they also recommended
the city council .... memo in your packet .... staff has taken
a stronger position emphasizing that we felt it should be the
Board of Adjustment and recommended that ..... We have since
went with what was their initial feeling in terms of having it
be the city council.
Kubby/ Who do you appeal to for HP purposes?
Sohoon/ For Historic Districts, those appeals go to the city
council as required by State Code. Appeals for Conservation
Districts, which we have none as of today, would go before the
Board of Adjustment.
Norton/ ..If a person felt both aggrieved... in the ordinance...
provision would need to be provided somewhere for negotiations
with the Design Review Committee .... before they came to the
council.
Schoon/ That would be the desire of the committee .....
Baker/ What happens... committee says no, city council says no?
Schoon/ If they want to build the project .... they have the option
to appeal it to district court ..... or redesign the
project ....
Baker/ ... two major reservations. One is the subjectivity ... of
any review process of design .... The other one is time. What
is the quickest way to... accomplish the same goal? .....
Schoon/ ..... doesn't necessarily need to take 21 days. It could
take seven days... if you apply for it on... two Thursdays
before the next Design Review Committee meeting .....
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 39
Baker/
Schoon/ If the timing works out ....
Baker/ It does seem like the more complicated, the more large scale
of project, the longer the developer has to prepare to go
through the process ....
Thornberry/ You have got to get their certificate for approval
before you get your building permit.
Baker/ .... Work parallel with that. Your project going along
parallel with the process ....
Haynes/ As a larger project, it is going to go through .... during
that whole profess, that is when the Design Review Committee
wants to interact with the members doing the project. It is
during the process that we can easily affect what ever changes
or recommendations those might be... potentially you are not
holding up the project. You are just running along with it ....
Baker/
Haynes/ A mechanism for preliminary review ..... for this whole
Design Review process to start immediately ....
Baker/
Haynes/
Thornberry/ Given a fire of some proportion of a retail building
and you wanted to change the exterior-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-46 SIDE 2
Thornberry/ It is possible that this would be a delay because you
can't get a building permit without their okay .....
Haynes/ That is true but to the end, something like that the Design
Review Committee would hold a special meeting to expedite the
issuance of that certificate .....
Baker/ You say that now but is that built into the process? .....
Haynes/ What is built into the process is we can hold special
meetings as we need to. We are not tied to that schedule ....
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40
Thornberry/ We got 21 days ..... it is 21 days.
Nov/ Folks in the building permit office have their five days,
too ....
Thornberry/ You can't even go to the building permit people without
going to Design Review .....
Nov/ You cannot receive a permit but there is no reason why you
could not turn in a plan.
Kubby/ ...sketchy things on paper ..... Would Design Review
Committee look at it?
Haynes/ Right now we meet once per month ..... It is set
twice a month... Also the complexion of the actual
would change somewhat .... more professional.
up to meet
committee
Lehman/ .... then I would go get a permit ..... 8-9 days.
Schoon/ As long as you apply for it that seven days before the next
meeting.
Thornberry/
Woito/ There is one way around this and we did it with HP
Commission. I think we wrote in something at the applicants
request, the applicant can-the commission would call a special
meeting to devoid delays ....
Kubby/ As long as the Design Review Committee isn't expected to
meet 14 times a month at the will of the applicant ....
Woito/ Maybe it isn't that big of problem with their meeting twice
a month. I remember we discussed this before .... possibility
of a special meeting was one way to accommodate those
concerns.
Haynes/
Baker/
Woito/ The language is may, not shall.
Baker/
Nov/ Back to Ernie's door... does he need a building permit?
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WS04896
April 8,
Lehman/ I
Council/
1996 Council Work Session
am going to change my door, though.
(All talking).
Nov/ They have no say on color .... he can put
Schoon/ If a window is the same size
Norton/
Nov/ Moving on ....
Franklin/ A little history ....
Nov/
in a new door.
Norton/ History may have a slightly different cache than
Page 41
This same discussion occurred with
HP. The same exact concerns and I think you can probably use
HP as a model as how it has worked.
.... I don't remember them ever appealing to city council ....
design.
Franklin/ We are talking about design often with HP ....
Lehman/ There is als0 a distinct difference though .....
Schoon/
Kubby/ We have already acknowledged the benefits of good design in
our Zoning Code ..... Tax abatement... We have said this is a
community value on these certain circumstances .... If it is a
value, is it a value under all circumstances? ....
Vanderhoef/ ..... It had to do in this particular case with certain
kind of windows ..... facade on business ..... This is a retail
business and we must turn over X number of dollars per square
foot whether it be wall space or floor space to meet our rent.
The question of takings came up in my mind and how do we
address this in this kind of ordinance.
Thornberry/ Sidewalls of grocery stores ..... You may not be able to
put your foot shelves where they should be according to
traffic patterns ....
Woito/ Dee has asked a question about regulatory takings. I think
in terms of justifying the local concern that you have ..... At
one point the U.S. Supreme Court said esthetics only were not
enough. But they have since said esthetics alone is enough. So
long as you permit a reasonable use of the property and you
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WS04896
April 8, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 42
don't deny all economically reasonable use of the property,
you are not working a taking. You may diminish the value of
the property but that is not a taking.
Kubby/ .... there is some basis for decisions ....
Nov/
.... This would ensure that if a new building were going to be
put into, for example, an old library, the guidelines would be
the ordinance.
Norton/ How has Design Review been getting
renewal process? ..... An advisory role,
has been, hasn't it?
along in the urban
that has been what is
Haynes/ They have been advisory to the city council, yes .....
guess, have they been helpful? We would say yes and tomorrow
night we may hear other stories ....
Kubby/ ...advise to us...
Haynes/ In the limited opportunities that we have had to contribute
in the design of buildings and facade in Iowa City, yeah, !
think we have been helpful ..... We have inserted an element of
advise .... they haven't ignored it.
Nov/ We are spending an awful long time on this. We need to move
along.
Baker/ The question I was going to ask tomorrow cannot be asked
because the person ...is not going to be here tomorrow.
Nov/ Then ask... go ahead°
Baker/ ..°Currently the City Planning Department already has some
sort of review authority .... process over multi-family
buildings over 12 units or whatever .... What sort of
review? ....
Franklin/ That is site plan review and has nothing to do with
design of the building.
Baker/
Franklin/ .... The only place that we have any authority to comment
on design is in the CB-5 and PRM zones.
Baker/
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 43
Franklin/ When somebody comes and and we have the opportunity to
talk to them, we do... if we think that what they are
proposing is less than desirable. In terms of actual
regulatory mechanisms, I mean there is that exterior stairwell
thing that you guys did and we have site plan review but that
is basically it.
Baker/ There are tangible benefits.
Nov/ I am going to revise the agenda. I think we need a break and
then I think we need to go through the .... 64-1A .....
[BREAK] [Tape problems-go to tape 96-47 Side 1]
Franklin/ Before we start talking about 64-1A... go over the
differences between the concept of CenterSpace and what you
have been given by the steering committee in terms of what
they are looking at now. And I am just going to give you a
comparison of the two projects. CenterSpace was 107,800 square
feet. Of that there was 37,200 devoted to art. 30,000 for
conference. 15,000 for retail. and then 25,600 for support.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-47 SIDE
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 44
Redevelopment of Urban Renewal Parcel 64-1A 96-47 S1
Franklin/ I think the important is that you understand that
CenterSpace, when that term is used, was for a mixed use
facility that included these other components. Okay, is
everybody clear on that? This project was about $18 million in
'93 dollars with debt service.
Norton/ Where was communications?
Franklin/ In the arts .... Conference Center, etc.
Norton/ But doesn't the conference center make use of the theater?
Franklin/ Yes, it overlaps. People who would come to this place for
a conference could also use some of the spaces that are
allocated here to the arts. What I want you to think about ....
is what you want on this piece of ground. We have about 37,000
square feet... last urban renewal parcel... attraction for
d.t. Iowa City... vitality .... can bring people in.
Baker/ How many floors was that original proposal?
Franklin/ .... About three .... it also didn't cover the entire
lot .... One of the things to think about is that with the new
proposal for a cultural component of 30,000 square feet, you
could fit that into a building of some uses. What uses you
want on the site... go around each of the council members...
tell me... we are going to come to closure .... We will go
around twice, so you may have two. One at a time.
(Council created following list:)
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 45
Chart:
hotel
public gathering
conf. center
communications
PATV
retail/commercial
art display
office for lease
library
performance space
theater
parking
discovery center
residential
density/intensity of use
taxable
underground uses
privately owned
partially taxed
Franklin/ The only two items that were not in the CenterSpace
concept are the library and office for lease .... retail.
Residential as kind of a possibility .... What we need to do
now is talk about what is most important. Do you want all of
these things in it?
Lehman/ ...put something together that is going to sell because
this is probably going to have a bond issue ....
Baker/ I was thinking do a RFP ..... Figure out what we can
tradeoff .... On that urban renewal land, do we have to sell it
at market value?
Nov/ We can choose to hold the land... rent the land.
Baker/ As incentive to get a major project, is that legal?
Woito/ We do not need to sell it for market value for urban renewal
property. You can have other considerations. It is much more
flexible.
Franklin/ You can write down the cost of the land to get what you
want ....
Baker/ I am quite willing to do that.
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 46
Franklin/ First we need to settle on what we want.
Kubby/
Franklin/ At this point...certainly you could consider doing the
bond issue ...... possibility of a bond issue was remote and to
be practical, that is still where we are. Are there any uses
on these two lists that you can't live with .... put together
the RFP with the essentials and then these are some other
options .... Are there things which are critical to the council
for you to have included? .....
Baker/ Could I present a hypothetical approach? We pick out a
square foot figure .... of public use .... put out an RFP ....
75,000 square feet ....
Franklin/ I think to send it out you would need to be a little
explicit on what the public was ..... determines how it
interfaces with the rest of the building and a developer is
not going to take an unknown.
Baker/
Franklin/ You identify that what you want .....
Baker/ Is a tradeoff of a major development in the long run to our
benefit as a tradeoff for the land? .... I have not problems
with some version of that.
Nov/ I would like to be more specific than just 75,000 square
feet ....
Franklin/ I think what we would do is pick out in here what are the
public-. .... those are all public (refers to chart) .....
Conference center was going to be one of the revenue
generators ..... Now it may be publicly run but all of
CenterSpace was going to be publicly owned and managed by a
nonprofit. The scenario that Larry has outlined is a privately
owned building with .....
Norton/ Somebody else would own the building but provide in return-
Franklin/ The space would be either a reduced lease rate or... no
rent at all. That it would be devoted to public use. The
operations within those public spaces would be paid for by the
users, a nonprofit that would carry on the operations But
there would be no rent charged and this would be the
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 47
obligation of the developer to provide the space or it can to
be to provide the space and rent is paid. And I don't know
really what the economic of that is or the practicality of it
is in the market place ....
Thornberry/ If I was to build a building there ..... in the $3
million range-
Franklin/ Small building.
Thornberry/ There is a lot of public space there ..... Wouldn't the
city be putting some money in to help me build this building?
Nov/ The land.
Franklin/ The land value- The last appraisal done was done in the
80's and it was $637,000.
Thornberry/ It has got to be worth-
Franklin/ We will have to have an appraisal done and a review
appraisal ....
Baker/ That is a dramatic incentive to get something done ....
Franklin/ Are you agreed that you all want to have a building on
here that is going to be privately owned that will be taxed?
Will pay property taxes?
Nov/ If we are talking about a large portion of the building being
used as public space, they are not going to pay tax on that
portion.
Franklin/ Partially taxed.
Thornberry/ How many square feet on that property?
Franklin/ 37,000 .... about.
Kubby/ The zone is CB-10. So our current zoning does not allow
parking .... That might be one of the things that we X from
that.
Lehman/
Baker/
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 48
Franklin/ Would you be willing to consider parking on the site if
it ~as subterranean parking?
Nov/ I really don't think so .....
Baker/ I would if it were an incentive in getting the other ....
Norton/ ...given our weather situations ....
Nov/ It is a disincentive for anyone who walks along at night.
Norton/ Depending on the design.
Franklin/ .... Board of Adjustment ....
Kubby/ Science center?
Norton/ I certainly don't mean the science center .... I didn't
think that concept was going to fit here. They are looking for
six acres somewhere.
Franklin/ In the modified proposal that you received from the
Cultural Conference Center Steering Committee, they have
combined the information and discovery and gathering center in
a multipurpose lobby in 63,000 square feet. That is small.
Okay, privately owned, partially taxed or taxed to the extent
possible give the public space. Questionable on subterranean
parking but there is some sentiment to have some underground
uses... could be some flexibility ..... depending upon how
strongly you feel about certain issues.
Norton/
Franklin/ In terms of intensity or density of use ....
Norton/ Fill it up.
Franklin/ To the max?
Nov/ A minimum stories.
Franklin/ Holiday Inn now I think is seven stories.
Norton/ We sell the top three stories and let them connect over.
Franklin/ That is possible.
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April 8, 1996 Council Work Session Page 49
Nov/ We could consider a five story center if it had the foundation
to expand upwards in the future .....
Kubby/ Aspects of CenterSpace are really important. It is perfect
for...community to have the display space...performance
space .... important.
Thornberry/ I don't think Iowa City is completely devoid of theater
space ....
Kubby/ Those spaces are booked most of the time .....
Council/
Franklin/ One of the concepts in CenterSpace... was that you would
have some flexibility in that use of space. That 37,000 square
feet was based on a needs assessment in interviewing the
survey a number of people within the arts community and within
the community. The restructured space is 30,400 square
feet .... 75,000 is significant .... If someone chooses to do a
seven story building-
Baker/
Franklin/ It is 259,000 square feet for completely covering the lot
all the way up for seven stories ..... massive .... CenterSpace
design was set back.
Norton/ One problem I have is with a theater ....
Franklin/ This is a 500 seat theater. What is that comparable to,
Shirley? ..... So it is smaller than Clapp ....
Norton/ When you talk about theater, who is going to occupy that?
.... Needs to be a compliment of the conference center.
Franklin/ That is 10,200 square feet but that is one of the items
that could be used for conference functions ....
Baker/ Conference space might be a private use as well.
Norton/
Arkins/ Just point out to you a conference center cannot run
successfully without food service and a liquor license .... You
have got to make a deal with the hotel because you have got to
have both of those services.
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WS04896
April 8, 1996 Council Work session
Vanderhoef/ And they may need more space.
Nov/ And we are not putting a restaurant in here ....
Franklin/
Atkins/ Restaurants and food service are different .....
Page 50
When I say
food service, I mean the commaercial production of mass meals
by someone like a hotel ..... You are better off borrowing it,
in affect, from another building
Nov/
Franklin/
Norton/
Franklin/ Okay,
Hotel right next door.
I have some sense of what we can put together in a
draft RFP. The incentives .... write down on the land, possibly
some tax breaks for the right project.
Baker/ Flexible zoning.
Lehman/ ..... possibility of looking at a project, the present
library and the new building ....
Norton/ Sky walk.
Franklin/ You have a discussion of the library scheduled for April
22 work session and I don't know if Susan wants to say
anything tonight or you want to just wait for that discussion
on the 22nd .....
Nov/ Before we finish this I would like to seriously reconsider
whether or not this is a good place for residential .....
Baker/ We have a hotel d.t. anyway?
Nov/ I am wondering if anybody would seriously want to live there.
Baker/ I have not problem with idea... residential rental space ....
Lehman/
Franklin/ Clarification of the magnitude of that residential is
something that we want to make clear in the RFP.
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Council Work Session
Page 51
Kubby/ That it is not a couple of floors and then six floors of
apartments.
Arkins/ To clarify the conference center as I understand. This is
not a convention and exhibition space. This is a conference
center primarily for meetings. No tractor pulls, no heavy
equipment and that makes a big difference on a convention and
exhibition space ..... You are not talking about trade shows.
You are talking about meetings.
Nov/ I would like to be able to attract the Iowa League of cities.
Atkins/ Fine .... You cannot attract the automobile show because the
building is not designed to bear that kind of weight. The
makes a difference on the type of marketing.
Council/
Atkins/ As long as you understand an exhibition space and
conference space are different.
Lehman/ Many cities who have built convention centers are losing
tons and tons of money because they are too big .... A
conference center is a much much smaller facility ....
Kubby/
Baker/
Atkins/ ..... different .... exhibition space has a bearing ....
Kubby/ Private parties ....
Franklin/ Okay, you all have kind of a good idea of what you are
seeing here for this project. I am assuming that you have
desires of what you want to have here. It is not just open it
up to whatever comes along and there is probably going to be
a certain concern with the quality of development that happens
here°
Kubby/
Norton/ It is really a real public space ....
Franklin/ My next question to you then is how to approach this...
RFP for the preferred uses and I am kind of assuming that we
are going to try to market this nationally, not limit it to
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just local developers and I guess if we are going to do that,
I would like to get some outside help for this. People who are
in that business. In my budget for next year for FY97, I have
$30,000 professional fees for either d.t. project or peninsula
development. It would come out of that.
Baker/ I think you need a national public company that does
this ....
Franklin/ Do you want to have a market analysis done of this? ....
to see if it is saleable out there or shall we just have this
company take it and bring it out there and their
responsibility is to get responses back.
Lehman/ ....
Franklin/
Atkins/ Can't sell something that isn't going to sell.
Nov/ We are going to be told that everything is feasible as long as
you put enough money into it.
Franklin/ ...know if the incentives we are talking about make any
sense in the market place .....
Kubby/ ...some of the space... we have already done the feasibility
study...
Franklin/ We have done a feasibility study for that kind of project
in this town and what it would cost to run it, to build it ....
What we haven't done is in the market place, is there anybody
that would do this now .....
Norton/ Are you talking a two stage process .... concept is
realistic and then later to go out and do the marketing?
Franklin/ ...what I am hearing is that any company who would do the
marketing should be able to tell us up front without doing a
full blown analysis .... They should know ....
Norton/ What are we talking about money?
Franklin/ I am talking about working within this $30,000 that is
allocated for FY97.
Woito/ And they would do the RFP?
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Franklin/ No,
shot ....
Council/
Franklin/
council Work Session Page 53
we probably would draft the RFP ..... give it a
I am done, thank you. We will have something back to you
after the library discussion ....
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Local Option Sales Tax 96-47 S1
Nov/ Local option sales tax. Larry,
discussion?
do you want to start this
Baker/ I think we can do this very briefly tonight .... raise some
questions. Do we want to do it? ..... We are not going to get
involved tonight how we should locate a sales tax .... Since
January I sent around two memos about how... a proposal.. I
would like to see all of us put down a proposal and our
rational for it and get it to the rest of us as soon as
possible .... before we start talking about the allocation.
Let's see where we all stand and then come in and start
talking about the proposal. I would also suggest that as soon
as possible we would either consider or schedule one or two
agenda public hearings ..... if we have a sales tax, what do
you think a proper use of it ..... Next question is do we want
to do this in the fall? ...... taking the lead and not waiting
on other communities? ..... Johnson we have to follow or come
along the side of us .... Is our budget considerations
imperative enough that we want to have this resolved one way
or the other ..... late fall we will have this decided .... What
do we do with the other possible referendum issue, the
library, which I don't think we can do two major issues close
in the same season .... We got to get the sales tax resolved
before we get the library resolved.
Kubby/
Thornberry/ Linda, can we have on the ballot, more than one
proposal for one city sales tax? .....
Woito/ You can have a number of things that you want to divert the
money to.
Thornberry/
Karr/ By the state code the ballot must specify the type of tax,
the date it is imposed, the amount of the tax and a statement
as to the specific purpose or purposes for which it will be
spent.
Kubby/ Can you have more than one of those issues on the ballot at
once?
council/
Woito/ No.
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Nov/
First of all our decision must be do we want a sales tax on
the ballot ..... If we put it on the ballot, we are prepared to
defend '
it .....
Thornberry/
Baker/ .o. we are going to have to negotiate among ourselves.
Kubby/ People might agree to put it on the ballot to let the people
decide .....
Council/
Baker/ If we believe that a sales tax is a legitimate source of
revenue, then we have to justify it to the public .....
Thornberry/ If we can't agree on a use or uses, at least on a 6-1,
5-2.
Baker/ ..... I can still go out and work for the whole package if
there is something else I feel strongly about in that
package ...... I want us to have a high comfort level here but
it doesn't have to be 100%
Lehman/ Are there four people... would consider putting the sales
tax on the ballot?
Nov/ That is the count that I need. All right, I see enough people
here that say we should at least give it more time for
discussion .....
Baker/ Can we tentatively agree we would like to see a fall
referendum?
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-47 SIDE 2
Kubby/ .... Library
Baker/
Thornberry/ A 1% sales tax is a big issue .....
Baker/ .... I am talking about timing.
Thornberry/ They can both be on the ballot at the same time.
Council/
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Kubby/ They could both fail because you are asking the com~unity to
do too much ....
Nov/
Norton/ It will be a choice.
Baker/ I suggest that we all put down on paper what is it that you
could live with and why ..... Maybe we need a refined category
...... something like transportation which gives us more
flexibility ..... d.t. development .....
Nov/ We need not get that specific on the ballot... Ames .... 60%
for property tax relief and 40% for community betterment ......
Baker/ .... You ought to establish constituent for the sales
tax .... Make it clear here are the public benefits ....
Nov/ community betterment went beyond that ....
Lehman/ If we do put this on the ballot .... some interests ....
sunset law .... very very careful what we fund .....
Nov/ It can go on the ballot again.
Norton/ Needs to be considered on the timing matter ..... where this
stands in time for that budget.
Nov/ General agreement for the fact that people do want it on the
ballot. They do want to do it this year .....
Baker/ I would like to know what we are going to do next.
Lehman/ In our own minds I think we need to figure out what we
would like to use it for and why .....
Baker/ .... and reschedule another discussion as soon as
possible .... What about idea of a p.h. just for public input?
Thornberry/ Public input you are going to get everywhere.
Nov/ Restrict it to the kinds of issues...
Kubby/ Making sure we are in communication with other jurisdictions
..... We need to call a meeting of all of the jurisdictions in
Johnson County ..... We are the power lay here .....
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Lehman/ ...I mentioned at ECCOG meeting... Cedar Rapids .... they
are very interested... Washington...
Norton/ We have it on the agenda for a meeting with Coralville
already.
Nov/ We have to go beyond this .... If it is on the ballot in Linn
County and Johnson County on the same day, it is... help.
Baker/ I feel strongly if Cedar Rapids says they won't do it this
fall, that should not stop us.
Nov/
They said they do want to do it this fall ..... You may get to
the point where they say it must be in November, we are not
going to pay for a special election .....
Karr/ The local option sales tax can be either a general election
or a special. It cannot be a city regular. The library can be
any of the combination. By state law it cannot be a city
regular for the sales tax.
Nov/ So it could be on the ballot in November along with the
president.
Baker/ How does that affect the sales tax issue?
Norton/ We can do some research.
Baker/ Do you want to have it on there or a separate election?
Norton/ .... we can find out what the histories have been like.
Nov/ Moving on.
Atkins/ One quick comment. Would you mind if I write up some
proposals for you? Okay. Just to throw in the hopper.
Nov/ By all means. And if Don Yucuis wants to write his proposals,
join it.
Kubby/ ...sales tax is really regressive and it only becomes less
regressive if it is replacing something that is even more
regressive ..... If you talk about that in your memos about
what it is replacing and how is that other thing more
regressive than a sales tax.
Thornberry/
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Baker/ I would also suggest .... I don't argue with the regressivity
of a sales tax. You have to consider.~. the destination of the
money and that can be a justification and that is the way I
look at it .... How are you going to spend that money.
Lehman/ I am just as interested in the origin as I am the
destination.
Baker/ ..... I have overcome the regressivity .... Sue (Craig), are
you here for some other issue?
Susan Craig/ I was interested in 64-1A ....
Baker/ While Sue Craig is here- What exactly were you coming to us
on the 22nd? .... How does this discussion sort of fit into
that?
Susan Craig/ What we are planning to do on the 22nd is to bring you
the architect. Our architect will be here with the design
drawings for the current concept that we are working with for
the library expansion which the current concept is purchasing
the property on our west ..... Lenoch and Cilek building; razing
that building; building a two story building that could go up
as high as four stories. The library space would be on the
second floor and commercial retail space would be maintained
on the first level and in the basement.
Baker/ How critical is timing?
Craig/ As I sit and listen to new possibilities rise up, I get
concerned about timing in that we are a year behind of where
we thought we would be already .... timing is certainly an
element that is very important to us.
Kubby/
Craig/ ...leaky roof, carpet... wiring that is inadequate...
Nov/ We are going into April 22.
Craig/ We are coming with the design package and cost estimates for
that proposal...
Woito/ Aren't we going to do the discussion of negotiation in
executive session?
Craig/ Not with council at that time. It is not scheduled.
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Woito/ (Can't hear).
Craig/ The current information I have about those negotiations that
we have to wait a month for the second- The appraisals on the
leaseholds and they won't be ready on the 22nd. The public
portion of the meeting will be about the design and the
project as it is conceived right now.
Baker/ One of the things that we are going to have to talk about
with you is the timing .....
Craig/ I realize that now.
Kubby/ Are we skipping the bus ordinance and Scott Blvd. trunk-?
Nov/ Yeah, I did say that.
Kubby/ Does that we mean we are deferring the bus ordinance?
Nov/
There can be a vote on that tomorrow. We can get a
presentation from staff and a vote tomorrow. We don't
necessarily have to defer but we can defer it.
Kubby/ I am always bringing up the issue of even though we are not
required to have a p.h, to have public discussion about any
kind of ordinance like that.
Nov/ We can talk about it tomorrow. Scott Blvd. trunk sewer is just
authorizing staff to negotiate easements ....
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Scheduling of John Carver. Government Consultant 96-47 S2
Nov/ We are not going to talk about John Carver .... involving all
of our council, boards and commissions, other local
governments in his ideas and we could invite him to come here.
Marian went so far as to ask him what dates are available and
that is as far as we have gone.
Kubby/ There are some money issues, too. He is not a cheap guy.
Nov/
... We need to discuss whether or not we want to spend the
money .... if we spend the money, if we want to involve other
people or not ..... and dates.
Norton/ I have an idea .... looked at the book earlier... I would
not be comfortable inviting him .... until we were pretty
serious about moving in his direction and I think we know
enough to discuss that among ourselves and see how willing we
are to get into this.
Thornberry/ You would have to present it to the rest of us.
Norton/ You have got some material in the book.
Thornberry/ I didn't go to the class.
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ We have a book that he wrote. Steve has it.
Karr/ I have a copy also.
Norton/ I think we would do well to inform ourselves as best as we
can and then have a session .... We ought to look at the
material in writing .... Maybe we will do it at our goal
session .... radical... exciting ....
Nov/ This could be instead of goalsetting session.
Norton/ At $7,200 a day ..... played the thoughts among ourselves on
the basis of reading.
Baker/ ...It might be premature to make a decision like this
without a more serious discussion amongst ourselves .... IS
there a direction we want to go ..... participate with other
people .....
Norton/ Put together a handout that tries to summarize the things
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and look at how we operate in various areas and see how they
fit ..... how our commission and boards work .... I think we
could put together a pretty good packet and maybe get somebody
locally to help us .... Library has looked at this.
Nov/
The library has looked at it and they thought it was
worthwhile. If we do this we have to involve the library board
and all of our other boards.
Norton/ ...there relationship with
considerably under his model ....
council would change
Nov/ Library is much more independent than some of the others.
Vanderhoef/ And there are other cities around in the JCCOG ....
Kirkwood .... Goodwill .... Are some other things that can
happen .... He said the more people you can enroll in your
community to hear what it is that you are doing allows you to
move forward J~n a very positive way .....
Norton/
Nov/ I would go as far as all of the cities in Johnson County ....
Norton/ ...You won't have time to focus that on your particular
needs .... Talking more seriously about change within Iowa
City.
Vanderhoef/ ...his conversation ....
this new governing idea works,
community ....
impart the information of how
you will polarize your whole
Norton/ Is the council familiar enough as a whole to decide whether
they want to proceed this way .....
Kubby/ So if you all agree that it is premature not. That we all
need to read the stuff and talk again.
Nov/
Norton/ I think this council ought to understand what the process
is before they decide how to proceed next... could be done by
reading and discussing among ourselves.
Thornberry/ If we decide to do this thing, then we will implement
some of these other things.
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Norton/ ... How many copies?
Arkins/ Susan can get us some additional copies. Susan has a number
of copies.
Craig/ I think I can dig up seven copies...
Atkins/ ...A video tape ....
Craig/ We also have a video tape ....
Norton/ Wonderful if we got the video ....
Atkins/ May I ask council .... settling in on facilitator
recommendations, schedule and so fourth and I stopped that
work... Do you still want to proceed with goalsetting
independent of this decision.
Baker/ Yes, I do.
Kubby/ Me, too.
Atkins/ I need to round up the facilitator ..... schedules
Kubby/ ...we still need to know what our goals and priorities are
as a group ....
Nov/ I don't want to tie it into budget .... I think this ought to
be much more visionary.
Kubby/ How do you how to spend your money unless you know what the
vision is? ..... generalized goals so you know how to spend
your resources .....
Atkins/ If you still want to goalsetting session, I will get it
back on track .... Okay, so I will get it back on track and I
will get you schedules and get that back to you shortly.
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/
Kubby/ .... We don't do the follow up work...
Lehman/ Some of the goals that council should have probably are not
relative to things that cost us money.
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Nov/
Back to goalsetting. Do we have a general agreement that we
want to do something like that? All right, now that we have
such a general agreement, do we have some idea of when.
Arkins/ No.
Nov/
Steve will come back with a couple of dates and I would like
to suggest that we follow Larry's good idea about goals and
get our ideas down... do sole searching before we get to the
actual session ..... He wants to do it on sales tax. I want to
do it on goalsetting .... Make two lists, right .....
Council/
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Council Agenda/Time 96-47 S2
1. Norton/ I have all of these tabs ....
Nov/ I did not find them particularly useful ..... I tell Lisa I
would ask if people like tabs or not.
Atkins/ If you want tabst we will put them on yours. If you don't,
we won't ..... Karen says no, Larry says no tabs.
Karr/ I really think it is helpful is we can treat every council
member's packet with consistency .....
Arkins/ I don't agree with that.
Nov/ I really don't want them ....
Council/ (Discussion regarding tabs).
2. Vanderhoef/ I will be out of town next week and will not be able
to attend CVB meeting on 16th. If anyone would like to go in
my place ....
Norton/ CVB on 16th. I will go. 4:00? What day of the week is it?
Tuesday. All right .....
Vanderhoef/
3. Thornberry/ I would like, if it is okay with the council, I
would like two copies of the Building Codes.
Nov/ The whole codes.
Thornberry/ I want the whole book ....
Karr/ Municipal Code or the Building Code?
Thornberry/ Building Codes.
Karr/ Those are different. You want the published federal ones.
Thornberry/ I want to know what it takes to build a house in Iowa
City... what is every code that I need to look at. I would
like two copies.
Karr/ You would be talking five- Then the amendments to those codes
are contained in our Municipal Code which is two volumes.
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Kubby/ Why do you need to copies?
Thornberry/ Because I am going to another community. They are going
to be looking at one copy and I am going to be looking at
theirs ..... I will bring them back.
Kubby/ Can't you just take the amendments because otherwise it is
the National Code which everyone should have access to.
Thornberry/ Give me something that is separate for Iowa City ....
Karr/ That is in our Municipal Code.
Thornberry/ I would like that .....
Nov/ Two volumes of the Municipal Code contain our amendments to
the Building Code ..... I thought everyone on the council was
given one.
Karr/ No, council members get an option of doing it because it
involved updating .... outdated very quickly. We give them out
upon request.
Thornberry/ At the last meeting you said give me an example of
something... I need to know what is in it ....
Kubby/ Great... that a letter from this group go to the
Homebuilders to say we would like five ideas of how to make
construction costs less in this town without compromising
quality and safety and ask them.
Thornberry/ That is exactly who I was going to sit down. with with
one copy.
Kubby/
Thornberry/ And then I want another city's .... I need to give
ours... I will bring it back .... Anything more than state code
we have got in a book.
Woito/ We can find some to loan you.
Thornberry/
Norton/ It would be better to go to the Homebuilders as a
group .....
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Kubby/ Can a letter go out from the mayor?
Nov/ Didn't we have a committee working on things like that?
Council/ (All talking).
Atkins/ That was the Housing Code. We have had a draft with them
since February .... Doug is waiting for them to approve the
final draft. Taskforce on housing, inspection, quality of
service issues ..... they had a draft report .... not prepared
to release it to you yet.
Norton/
Kubby/ Can we have a letter go from the mayor to the Homebuilders
challenging them to find at least five ways to decrease-
Nov/ I don't want to put a number.
Norton/ Ask them for suggestions ..... I think that would be very
good .....
Woito/ You can read the rest of City Code at your leisure.
Thornberry/
4. Norton/ I still want to make sure that a water tour of the
peninsula is coming up sometime.
Atkins/ I just need who wants to go, give me dates .... before
tomorrow night's meeting .... I will be here about 7:15 and we
can check some dates. We are ready to go.
Norton/
5. Kubby/ Two things in the packet that silence means agreement and
one of them is impact fees for schools where the school
district has said we would like ~o have the land obligated but
we don't want to pay for it .... looRing at a study to see if we
can do this in an equitable way for every subdivision. I want
us to say out loud whether we are just going to not do that
anymore or not .....
Norton/ I am not clear what you are asking us to do.
Kubby/ If the Planning Department doesn't hear from us, they are
going to change their approach to not look for school sites in
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any situation.
Arkins/ We weren't thrilled with it either. We went to them. We
tried to work with the folks ..... Karin Franklin... I want to
be fair to every perspective developer .... too bad... We are
wide open for suggestions.
Vanderhoef/ Is this a legal problem?
Woito/ When I was in Des Moines recently .... City of Des Moines
extracting for school. They are different entities. I suppose
you could probably do it. I mean you have to show the direct
relationship, etc. We haven't really looked at it.
Atkins/ ...My concern was lack of interest on part of the school
district .....
Woito/ AS long as developers are willing to do it voluntarily, we
don't have to go through the maginations of an impact fee.
Kubby/ Just another incentive not to do a big area of development.
.... Then we get hit if we don't plan for this ....
Arkins/ She went to the school board and made a proposal and they
rejected it.
Kubby/ .... lobby school board members. I don't want us to leave
this along. I don't want us to-
Atkins/ I can tell Karin, let's just sit tight and you want to
visit with school board members... kind of let us know if they
change their mind .... we just wanted to have a study to put
together a package that was fair to everybody.
Norton/ Two aspects... sites... money... Still important to
talk ....
Atkins/ We went through a site discussion with them months
before ....
Nov/ The impact fee... they just don't want to fund a study .....
Norton/
Atkins/ I can visit more with Karin if you are going to talk some
more with school board members .....
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Kubby/ Okay.
Baker/ .... right now we have two developments that have set aside
land .... very hard to get school board on that area .....
Should we consider releasing them for that obligation? ....
Woit0/ It is their obligation. We are doing their work for them ....
Baker/ .... I want to talk about this whole relationship with the
board ....
Vanderhoef/ Concerns me when all at once the schools come to us and
say this is our site and they are dictating to us where an
arterial goes .....
Woit0/ Same holds true when you approve development... put pressure
on their schools and they have to respond.
Baker/ I think city government
have initiated trying to
school boards ....
has done more cooperation .... We
work with county, university and
Vanderhoef/ What would we be talking about .... money...
Atkins/ I don't recall that being an issue.
Nov/
Just say we are going to keep in touch with the school
board... not going to set aside land. 0nly leverage we have is
rezoning ....
Baker/ I don't disagree with Karin Franklin's memo.
6. Kubby/ Other issue I wanted to bring up tonight was the Melrose
Avenue in compliance with Sensitive Areas Ordinance. I am a
little concerned about some of those things .... I think as a
council we need to say yea or nay to some of these things ....
I don't know what the time frame is.
Atkins/ °..wetland thing... Rick's analysis went further than the
requirement of the ordinance.
Kubby/ Shouldn't we have looked at this?
Atkins/... trying to find a format to comply with the
resolution ....
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Kubby/ ... It should be incorporated...
Atkins/ We are trying to do that. This is our first go around with
this thing of a project of any consequence and I like this
format, the way he laid it out .... We are trying to be in
general compliance with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance ....
Kubby/
Atkins/ You would probably have an unsafe road because you want to
cut into that slope to flatten the road out so the vision can
be clear for public safety purposes.
Woito/ There is an exception to city utilities in there ....
Atkins/ ... We are trying to be in general compliance .... You have
public safety and environment coming into competition.
Woito/ Rick's memo went well beyond the ordinance.
Arkins/ Yes it did.
Woito/ I called him to find out where this wetland is ....
Atkins/ It is very small...
Kubby/ I guess I will talk to Rick and if I want to bring it up
again, I will.
Nov/ I have just one item. The University of Iowa MBA
Association sent me a letter inviting me to a leadership
symposium. Did anybody else get this one? .... I am going to
copy it for everybody ..... I am going to ask Marian to send it
to everybody. There is a Dr. James Galaskow .... He is good ....
April 19, Friday morning ....
Kubby/ Busy time of year .... This is not productive and I would
prefer to meet on an off week to do some of these work session
issues than to have this long of an agenda. I don't think it
is fair ....
Norton/ We have stuck e.s. on the front quite often.
Adjourned 11:25 PM.
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