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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-06-03 TranscriptionJune 3, 1996 Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Absent: Lehman. Staff: Atkins, Helling (7:05), Woito, Karr, Franklin, Dollman, Schoon, Schmadeke, Fowler. Tapes: 96-67, Side 2; 96-69, all; 96-70, all. Review Zoning Matters 96-76 S2 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for July 2 on the designation of 37 properties as Iowa City historic landmarks. Franklin/ You will have more information on that prior to the p.h. on July 2. b. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for July 2 on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by rezoning the following properties located in Iowa City, Iowa, and owned by The University of Iowa to P, Public: 1 E. Park Road (RNC-20), 234 N. Madison Street (RM-44), northwest corner of Dubuque and Church Streets (RM-44), 230 N. Clinton Street (PRM), 324 S. Madison Street (CB-2), 300 Myrtle Avenue (RSo5), 421 Melrose Avenue (RS-5), 315 Melrose Avenue (RS-8), 121 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), 127 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), 129 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), and 2222 Old Hwy 218 S. (~-l). Franklin/ Set a p.ho for July 2 on rezoning of 12 properties that are owned by the university of Iowa and we need to rezone them to P... since they are publicly owned. Naomi, I just want to point ut a typo in the comment. Instead of with Gibson absent it should be abstaining. Nov/... They said he walked out of the room. Franklin/ He was abstaining. Kubby/ There is a piece of information I would like staff to look into for A .... How would a Historical Landmark Ordinance affect the Park Place Hotel .... How would that affect what is going on there because it is on the list? Franklin/ .... Okay. I will give you a report on that. Co Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by conditionally rezoning a 2.32 acre tract from I-l, Industrial, to CI-1, Intensive Co~nercial, for property located east of Sunset Street on the south side of Highway 1. (REZ96-0006) This repr~ents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of June 3, 1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 2 Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance to rezone 2.32 acres from I-1 to CI-1 .... located just east of Menards. There has been a request from the developer to continue this p.h. to June llo This is property that is being purchased from the Ruppert family and there is some question as to whether you need the signatures of all of the siblings or not. Hopefully we will have that resolved by next week .... A rezoning with conditions .... itemized in the CZA that is in your packet. d. Consider an ordinance amending City Code Title "Zoning," Article J, "overlay Zones," by creating zoning district entitled "Design Review Overlay consideration) 14, Chapter 6, a new overlay Zone." (First Franklin/ First consideration of an ordinance to create a new overlay zoning district entitled "Design Review Overlay Zone°" This was the ordinance that council considered... deferred to your meeting of June 4 to allow the DR Committee to consider alternatives. You do have a memo in your packet from DR Committee.°° They are requesting that this item be deferred to July 16. Kubby/ So they are fine tuning the ordinance to still have it be mandatory review and mandatory compliance but a more streamlined process? Thornberry/ Not necessarily. Norton/ There is a little bit of perhaps mis-communication here. I sent a note to DR Committee .... expressing my concerns .... I hope that we could come up with an alternative .... with mandatory review but voluntary compliance .... I get mixed messages .... Franklin/ Marty Haynes, the Committee chairperson is here .... My understanding is they entertained a number of options .... and still felt that for DR to be affectire, it was necessary for it to be mandatory on both counts .... Martin Haynes/ ..... goal being to make it much more streamlined and less cumbersome .... We did have a session with members of the DTA, Chamber... Northside .... concerns resolved around the process and the time frame .... There really didn't seem to be any perceived opposition .... all of the opposition from people we heard was with process .... We are in the midst of the rewrite .... 16th of July when we come back .... At this moment Thisrepresents only ereesonably accurate transcription of ~elowa Ci~ council meetlngofJune 3,1996. WS060395 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 3 we will proceed with the mandatory review, mandatory compliance. Thornberry/ I was looking at potential DR processes and they went all the way from mandatory mandatory to totally voluntary .... Seems like the DR wants teeth, so you are getting as mandatory as possible and recommending that you be given quite a bit of leeway .... That is just your opinion. Haynes/ We have met with a number of groups. Out of that seems to come some direction .... Thornberry/ .... There had to have been some opposition to mandatory mandatory. Haynes/ It was a brainstorming session. We tried to run the gamut of what could actually be possible. At the same time there are certain goals and objectives we are trying to achieve with the review process Norton/ I will still be disappointed if we don't come back with some alternative. Kubby/ I hear them saying it is coming back different .... Norton/ I am interested in somewhat different strategy as well .... Kubby/ It seems like you have been really clear .... Nov/ Okay, we will look for you at 16th of July. Haynes/ I look forward to it, too. Kubby/ But you had indicated that if the other ordinance was streamlined, that time was the biggest problem. Norton/ Nov/ I don't think we are going to make the decision today. e. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by rezoning a 1.79 acre tract from CC2, Community Commercial to OSA/CC2, Sensitive Areas Overlay/Community Commercial Zone and approval of a preliminary Sensitive Areas Development Plan for property located at the intersection of Sturgis Corner Drive and Highway 6. (REZ96-0008) (First consideration) Thisrepresents only are~onabiy accuratetranscription ofthelowa Clty councllme~lng of June 3,1996. W$060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 4 Franklin/ First consideration of an ordinance that rezoned 1.79 acres from CC-2 to OSA/CC2 .... This is the project at Sturgis Ferry. f. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to change the use regulations of a 3.09 acre tract from RS-5, Low Density Single-Family Residential, to 0PDH-5, Planned Development Housing Overlay, and approval of a preliminary OPDH plan for property located on the north side of Village Road. (REZ96-0004) (Pass and adopt) Franklin/ Pass and adopt on the rezoning for the Wellington Condominiums at Village Green. g. Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Village Green, Part XIV, Iowa City, Iowa. (SUB96-0002) Franklin/ Resolution approving the preliminary plat for Village Green, Part 14. Nov/ (Agenda #5-ITEM NOo5 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING CONSTRUCTION AT THE IOWA CITY MUNICIPAL AIRPORT OF A 100w X 100' HANGAR BUILDING WITH A 20' X 40' ATTACHED OFFICE AREA.) Jeff recommends that we defer the airport to June 11. So we will need a motion .... Vanderhoef/ (Can't hear) .... He indicated that Dick was working on one and Howard was working on another. It was still only two. The hangar thing. Norton/ Trying to get people in the hopper. This represents only areasonably accurate ~an$cripfion of thelowa Citycouncil meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 5 ACT/North Dodge Street 96-67 S2 Nov/ North Dodge Street, ready? Davidson/ In the '97 budget you have a project program to install a traffic signal at the intersection of Dubuque Road and Hwy 1/Dodge Street. There are two intersections that have that distinction .... request from ACT to signalize .... Linguist Building access. A tidy was done... determined that there were some safety problems in doing that and some major major expense considerations involving reconstruction of 1-80 interchange in doing that. Another project was developed... to signalize the Dubuque Road intersection. ACT has indicated .... that they would deBemphasize their Linguist Building access point .... correspondence saying it is not their intention at the present time to close that entrance although in the long range that is still their intention. Probably when Fist Avenue is extended up .... If you recall where that First Avenue extension is proposed, ACT's master plan has a major driveway coming down and forming a four-way intersection with that .... This is all way down the road if and when council wants to make the decision to construct the arterial street .... From JCCOGArterial Plan... this is essentially a guideline for new arterial street extensions in the community and this is the intersection that we are discussing tonight and then this is the big picture corridor involving the extension of this arterial street through northeast Iowa City. To have the intersection project ready to building in the year in which it is indicated in the budget which is next construction season, we need to get going on this given the IDOT approval that we are going to need .... we need to get going in the design of it right away. The significant issue here- The intersection project itself is much more complicated and expensive than typical intersection signalization project. There will have to be some reconstruction of Hwy 1 in order to keep good traffic flow and circulation° We have some tentative geometric plans approved by DOT .... Most significantly is that we want to have an improvement that can be eventually tied in with this east west arterial street if and when council decides to do that .... between '99 and 2001 is when you intend ..... Right now the plan is to have this portion of Scott Blvd. extended from Rochester Avenue and then begin at this point and work west (refers to map) ..... 2001 part, last phase .... So depending on which alternative is selected of the three that you have in the memo that you received... that changes the geometry of this area... We want to have an improvement that we don't throw away in 3-4 years .... We do have three alternative alignments .... I can put those up ..... I Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetraescription of the Iowa Citycouncil meeting of June 3, 1996, WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 6 understand that most of you have been out in the area .... A second clarification I want to make is we also received some correspondence from the Press Citizen .... The statement in the memo that they have not taken a position on a preferred alternative is true but it is not in anyway to indicate that they are not interested in taking a position on an alternative. They are very interested in this .... They are following this issue very closely .... There are three alternative alignments identified .... We have kind of narrowed it down to three .... for your consideration.. three reasonable ones .... The one thing that is new in this issue .... Sensitive Areas Ordinance ..... impact that each alternative will have on the Sensitive Areas that are identified according to the ordinance .... All three of these... can be built according to the standards that we have for arterial streets. There are some differences .... Driveway access onto Hwy 1 is a issue for the Clancey's .... that live in this area .... They acknowledge that right now they don't have a real good situation with driveway access. They are just concerned about the impact that this would have .... difficult situation... We do have long range idea of extending a new driveway out the back of their property .... To summarize sort of what the decision making is here tonight ..... Do you still want to go ahead with this project? If you do which of the alternative alignments are you inclined to direct us to pursue and then any discussion that is pertinent about this larger issue of the eventual street extension. That is looming in the near future and if it something that you have some major changes about with respect to preuious council, staff is interested in hearing about that. Kubby/ Dean came up with alternatives .... Davidson/ Do you want me to put one of the alignments up? Thornberry/ Put up B & C .... I will show you something. Nov/ Thornberry/ Could I have the pointer .... What I was proposing was a split between B & C and have it come hers (refers to map) .... Split the difference between this one and this one .... (refers to map) .... Davidson/ We have had some discussions with the Larson's... they would like to possibly bring this down further and get across this property right here (refers to map) .... In order to keep Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CIw council mee~ng of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 7 with our design standards, we will need to work with ACT in this area ..... The ACT r.o.w that they have dedicated to the City begins right there and goes over to the Kral farm .... They would work with us on that... That is possible to swing this down further .... Vanderhoef/ If we go with that, my first question, if we cut off from corner to corner there (refers to map)... How big is this piece in here and is it developable for the o%fner? Davidson/ That would take a- Whether or not it is developable and the impact on the Sensitive Areas ordinance, we sat down with Jeff and Michelle and gone through some of the elements with their property. We would have to look at that more specifically .... Norton/ Davidson/ These are property lines. Council/ (Refers to maps). Vanderhoef/ What will the DOT allow us for access onto the east west arterial? Davidson/ That will not be a state route. We have out own policies for access on arterials .... Vanderhoef/ .... Davidson/ With any arterial street, you have two purposes: One is to circulate traffic .... and of course to provide access to properties .... Norton/ Will you have to bridge the ravine and leave an underpass for cattle and machinery? Davidson/ That is a design thing that we would have to get into .... Nov/ What about the topography if those lines were moved further south? ..... Davidson/ You will going down into the ravine further .... Chuck checked the slopes on all three of the alternatives and C is the one with the steepest slopes, although it does not get into the protected slopes category of the SAO which is 40% or over. Thisrepresents only areasonsblyaccur~e transcription oftbelows CEy council meeting of June3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 8 Norton/ (Refers to map). Sch~adeke/ (can't hear). Kubby/ The answer was it goes right through the alfalfa field. Norton/ Davidson/ With respect to farm access or existing agricultural use, that is something that we were able to work out with ACT .... Hopefully those kinds of things could be achieved in this area as well. Kubby/ The advantage of Dean's alternative... creates smaller island on Press Citizen side and gives them more room to have to deal with setbacks along the highway. It gives the Gaten's more room and it gives the Larson's more room ..... Also makes a bigger triangle in other part of Larson family property .... Question becomes how do we prioritize or mesh the issues of dealing with people's property lines and future uses of the property and doing the best road topographically for the City .... Davidson/ If I can point out to council, we are not designing this road right now. All we are doing is designing this part up here .... Norton/ All of the areas are tough. Davidson/ Kubby/ I have a question for Chuck. What are this distinctions in the alternatives in terms of impact on rolly polly topography? Schmadeke/ As far as the road design, we will just have to cut right through the variances in topography so that the road won't follow the topography. Have more fills and cuts depending on how far up the slope you come. True for all alternatives. So the further north you go the less conflicts there will be between the existing topography and the road grade itself. Kubby/ ..... intensity of filling and cutting... Schmadeke/ One of the numbers I gave you was a distance in footage. That is the length of the influence between the different alignments .... That is the influence across a ravine and This represents only areasonably accuratetranscriptlon ~ ~elowa Ci~ coun~l meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 9 generally is also the influence up and down the ravine. So if you would square that number... you would end up influencing about 4 acres ..... Norton/ That first section is going to require considerable cut and fill under any of the alternatives .... What happens when you go past Larson's east there? .... Davidson/ There are some substantial meadow areas in that area .... ACT has indicated they will work with us exactly where that r.o.w. is located. Kubby/ .... B & C don't seem that hugely different .... There is not huge distinction between those two° Schmadeke/ Keep in mind that we have to match an existing alignment of the highway ..... Davidson/ They will let us hit is with a little bit of a skew .... Schmadeke/ And we have to match what ACT has provided us on the east end .... Really constrains just what we can do. Kubby/ Is from C? there a way of saying how many acres will be impacted Option A and how many acres will be impacted from Option Schmadeke/ As far as in those areas that are somewhat sensitive. ¥eah, we could do that, give you a rough idea of what that would beo Kubby/ ... important factor for me to look at as well as the property line issue. Is that a lot of calculation? ..... Schmadeke/ Not a lot but it is pretty rough at this point. Kubby/ Are people interested in having Jeff spend time on this issue? Thornberry/ I would like to follow the property lines as close as possible .... Kubby/ I am trying to figure out where in here do environmental considerations come into our decision making process and I have no feel for it from other people. Nov/ I have not feel for it either .... Thisrepresents only ereasonably accurate transcription ofthalowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 10 Thornberry/ If you cut that corner, Karen, it doesn't take out that tree line. A & B would take out that whole tree line down there. Nov/ Other way we could look at it is if we use B it takes a little bit of all three property owners .... fair way to make the decision. Thornberry/ If D were selected then everybody would be impacted less .... Kubby/ How much more expensive is road to build because of more filling an grading... we have not information about that .... tradeoffs in every decision that you make .... environmentally and physically .... Norton/ It looks to me like there is going to earth moving and cutting on either one .... C+ ..... might want to cost that out ..... be substantially Basically C and Baker/ Dean's sort of general guideline is the least impact on the property owners .... option A is the least impact on environmental concerns. Cost out your proposal and Option A. Woito/ Can I make a suggestion? Dean Thornberry's statement about following the property lines has merit legally. The second thing is in terms of if we do have to go to condemnation, any benefit to the property owner is not taken into consideration. So what you really need to think about is the burden on the property owner, not the benefit. I am talking to all of you. In terms of how this may look to legally in terms of just compensation, you need to look at the burden on the property owner and what property interests are taken. Therefore, Dean's suggestion of following property lines has merit. Norton/ A is just out of the question in terms of chopping somebody's property, going through the barn essentially. Davidson/ A couple of clarifications... Karen, when you brought up the comparison idea, you were talking about the amount of land impacted and then that went to costing out. There was a transformation there. What I think Chuck is prepared to evaluate between the two alternatives .... C and C+ or A and C+ .... We can calculate the amount of disruption to land. In other words, what kind of construction easement we would need for constructing the two. And is that A and C+ you want evaluated or C and C+. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council moetingofJune 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 11 Nov/ I don't hear any real support here for A ..... Davidson/ Okay, so C and C+? Nov/ (Yes). Davidson/ Okay, we will sit down and Dean, I want to make sure I understand what C+ iso (Refers to map) .... Were are going to come down between these two kind of and then hit the corner at about the same place but then bring this down a little further so we come across this property line... Get with ACT... Norton/ I don't see the virtue of splitting the virtue of splitting the difference between B and C that is up there now on that first section .... Thornberry/ It takes more from the Press citizen if you do the left ..... Norton/ Davidson/ (Refers to map) .... might reduce the amount of remnant that is there. Nov/ But a larger remnant may be easier to use. Davidson/ I cannot imagine .... is that a remnant that could be developed?... Woito/ How many feet is that? Council/ (All talking). Davidson/ That would be a tough piece of property. Kubby/ (Refers to map)° Davidson/ (Refers to map). Let Chuck and I see if that can work... get with Press Citizens, Gaten's and Larson's and ACT. Kubby/ It would be nice... to get some feedback from all the directly affected entities .... Davidson/ We will get back to you after we have had a chance to evaluate that alternative and also get with the folks involved. Thlsrepr~ents only a reasonably accurate transcription ~thelowo CiW council meeting ~ June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Thornberry/ ¥eah, get with the Press Citizen .... Page 12 Thlsrepresents only ereasonably eccuretetrenscdpfion ofthelowa Ci~ council meeting of June 3,1996, WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 13 ELKS Presentation 96-67 S2 Franklin/ What I have before you is the water plant project showing the site north of 1-80 as well as south. And the piece that we are going to be discussing tonight pertains to the peninsula south of 1-80 and I will refer to the peninsula a lot. The question before the council tonight to answer is do you wish to consider the location of two golf course holes in the low lands of the peninsula .... (refers to map). I want to give you some background and then I think Chuck Mullen or Rex or someone... is going to be making a presentation to council. As you will recall we, the City, acquired the Meardon Bolton property, what is called the peninsula, last year. And we did that for flood hazard mitigation as well as to acquire land for the alluvial wells .... two alluvial wells. When we acquired that property, we not only had to acquire the lower terrace where the wells will be located and where we could purchase the property for flood hazard mitigation, we also had to acquire the upper terrace (refers to map) which is approximately 92 acres. Mr. Meardon or Mr. Bolton.°. retained approximately ten acres up at the top. The neighbor here is the Elk's Club and they own this property right in here. With acquisition of this property, we started working with the Elk's about the issue of access.. water lines... future development of this property... This property was privately owned. It was involuntarily annexed in the '60s ..... always been an expectation that the property in this area would develop° At some point .... early in Iowa City's history .... Foster Road Extended r.o.w. that was dedicated to the public .... That r.o.w. has been a farm access for the peninsula for a number of years .... right through the golf course .... Right now that is not a problem... with development of the site we need to have a city street to that upper 92 acres .... To improve Foster Road, to improve this field access road through the Elk's Club would be disruptive to the golf course .... We have been working with the Elk's to look at relocation of the road to bring it up on the northerly part of the property, loop in down, to get access into these 92 acres... also access to ten or so acres retained by Mr. Meardon. That would mean relocation of a couple of holes that are in this area (refers to map) .... Where will these two golf holes be? ..... Trying to work out a possible location (refers to map) .... We need to recover $1.3 million, that was the cost of this land up here .... In your capital financial plan for the three years Steve has that so that will be recovered. (Refers to map) ..... Course designer that is commissioned by the Elk's put together a design for a couple of holes here. (Refers to map) ..... We went back to look down here .... There Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate ~ansc~ptton of~he Iowa Citycouncil meeting of June 3, 1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 14 were two issues that came up .... concern that I think has been moderated .... having to do with the potential contamination of the water by golf course holes .... they were not totally dispelled .... The other issue was the location of wetlands in this area .... We have had an environmental assessment- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-69 SIDE Franklin/ Jurisdictional wetlands, wetlands controlled by the Corp of Engineers in this area (refers to map). Going back to that original question: Should we locate the golf holes in this area? There are some positive for that .... provides for continuity of the course. It even allows the Elk's to enhance their course somewhat in terms of the yardage in par .... It is not development land down here. All of the 115 acres that we acquired for flood hazard mitigation will not be developed... well houses .... We need to keep that in open space. So the use of this property as golf course holes would be consistent with the open space on the remainder ..... Negatives... issues of wetlands. This is in the area of alluvial wells .... We would also need to pay HUD back for any property which reverts from public ownership to private ownership or private use .... That is approximately $5,000 plus an acre and the Elk's have been talking about approximately 20 acres .... $100,000 there to pay back. Those are the issues as we see them .... point of debate is whether this is an appropriate location .... for two golf holes for the Elk's Club... want to learn from council... Do you wish to entertain those as a potential location? Kubby/ Why can't we just flip the road and the greens that are north of the road? Just move the road north .... Franklin/ It is the matter of space aa I understand it. That is doesn't work out that easily .... Other holes in which the hole itself is close to the road... beaning cars as they came by. Kubby/ That land north of the road, who owns that land? ..... Franklin/ (Refers to map). This property right here is owned by the Elk's ..... that is Glasgow up here. Nov/ Show us the road line again. Franklin/ (Refers to map). Kubby/ What are the issues of golf development within city r.o.w.? Thisrepresents only areasonebly accurate transc~pfion ofthelowa Ci~ council meeting of June 3, 1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 15 Franklin/ There has been over time encroachment of the golf course into the r.o.w ..... Norton/ There is not room to move the road and develop any kind of holes in that corner .... Franklin/ To put the road in at city standards .... It increases that conflict that you have right now .... Rex Brandstatter/ Here this evening on behalf of Iowa City Elk's Lodge #590. I am chairman of the Trustees this year .... We have 570 menhbers, both men and women, and the Elk's has owned this property since 1930 .... We are at 3700 Foster Road .... we operate a restaurant, a swimming pool and 9 hole golf course .... We own 86 acres of land, 42 acres which we call usable or mowable .... 44 acres of mostly native hardwood trees .... Like to introduce the Board of Trustees to you: Mark Phillips, John Sladek, Tom Mueller, Darrell Courtney is not here yet,... Chuck Mullen and I am Rex Brandstatter. We have A1 Williamson ..... Ned Giles .... We have had the Iowa Nine Hole Course of the Year once in last ten years .... We are here to discuss what we would like... We hope that it is good for both parties .... We understand all of the issues that Karin had raised... We understand that you have to make some decision... direct questions to Mr. Chuck Mullen... represent the Elk's Club as an Elk .... Thank you very much .... Nov/ Rex, do you have some of those things printed out? How many acres of this and how many acres of that. Do you have copies that we could have? Brandstatter/ Not this evening but we will certainly get those here, yes. Chuck Mullen/ I want to make it clear... as an Elk, not as a lawyer ..... What our real problem is. (Refers to map) ..... If the r.o.w is expanded, we are going to lose that hole ..... (Refers to map) .... The development of that roO.W. in the present configuration is going to create a major conflict right here (refers to map) .... As Karin mentioned, our preference is down here because that is the way the golf course flows (refers to map). This ground is .... flat, treeless .... some of it has been designated as wetlands .... golf courses are developed in and around wetlands all over the country... are environmentally friendly .... We would be required to mitigate if we disturbed the grading in that area .... The golf course designers in today's world are use to Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate ~ansmlptlon efthelowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 16 dealing with wetlands problems .... (Refers to map) .... that can be used as off site mitigation .... On site mitigation is also possible .... Our designer has indicated he has worked with wetlands on numerous occasions .... try and build ponds that become hazards for the golf course .... wildlife habitat... to integrate the two uses in a way that compliments the environment but also challenges the golfers. The issue about contamination- We had talked to Nick Christens who is the Iowa State University .... Our discussion with him plus the literature that he supplied to us has led us to the conclusion that the development of a golf course on top of your alluvial wells isn't at all inconsistent with the use of the subsurface for the drawing of water .... Any chemicals that are used in golf course management today ..~ bound up in first 3-4 inches in soil... less likely to penetrate into the subsurface .... Turf grasses are very thick .... The area that we are looking at is an area of first choice .... We tried north but with the adoption of SAO (refers to map).°. severe slopes in these areas .... have to cut out all of the trees and then replace them .... We had the same problems in here (refers to map) .... Sensitive areas problem .... My understanding in talking with Chuck Schmadeke is that you have a construction time table to get the raw water lines in .... (refers to map) ..... We need to play something else or we have a seven hole golf course ..... no golf course .... This is an asset to the Iowa City community .... golf is a life time sport .... It is a very modest facility to join .... social setting where that whole spectrum of economic colmmunity can socialize .... I think it is an asset .... ought to be proud of .... Don't have a country club in this town .... Kubby/ Has the Elk's talked about the $100,000 that the city would have to reimburse that? ..... Mullen/ I don't think we have left any issue undiscussed. This isn't a one way street here .... The city has decided they need to have a maintenance trial and pedestrian bike way trail through here. That comes through the Elk's ground (refers to map). The city has expressed an interest in acquiring that .... that is on the trail .... Baker/ Mullen/ ...like to see it as more than $100,000 tradeoff .... Baker/ Can I ask you a couple of questions? Rex made a statement that you all have known since 1930 that this day was coming. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription of ~olowa Citycouncil meeting of Juna 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 17 Does that mean that the golf course was deueloped on the public r.o.w. with full knowledge? Mullen/ I can't say that° I wasn't here when the golf course was opened. Baker/ How long have the Elk's known that it has been on public r.o.w.? Mullen/ On public r.o.w. is a strong- I don't think the Elk's realized that the public r.o.w was 66 feet wide .... To say that they intentionally encroached into or knew that they were encroaching into, I say they have probably known that for a couple of years anyway. Baker/ .... Tell me again, on your present location there is no room for two holes? Mullen/ .... There isn't. The golfer has to proceed from one hole logically to the next and you start at one and you end at nine and- Nov/ What is the difference if you re-number? Mullen/ No difference except you have to start out someplace and have to end up at that same place in a round about circuitous way and for us to replace two holes when we lose the one that is right in this area (refers to map). Norton/ Is that top one an encroachment? Mullen/ We believe it will be. That the green would be so close to the edge of the r.o.w ..... That hole... is lost .... (refers to map) ..... Doesn't do any good to lose one and try to replace it because it has got to go someplace and come back. Norton/ But there is in principle some space for you to buy back .... Mullen/ Yes .... When you lose one, you might as well lose two if you have got a place to replace two and get back into the scheme of the course which is what you can do here. (Refers to map) .... Franklin/ I indicated before that the Elk's had a golf course consultant that they had working on design. We have gone over those designs... There is someone on my staff who is a This represents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthslowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18 golfer .... There are some possibilities that are not as desirable as the low ones. But I think the main question for you to address tonight is whether you wish to have those low ones considered at all for golf course holes. Nov/ I would like to hear from Mr. Mullen. Was any part of this golf course under water in 19937 Mullen/ ¥eah. Nov/ You can be guaranteed that those low sites will be under water more often... Mullen/ (Refers to map). There was an area down in here that was under water. Nov/ Two more holes that are going to be under water .... Mullen/ Not necessarily .... construction process... raise the fareways and the T's and the greens.°° trying to mitigate wetlands anyway .... grading process ..... enhancing the wetlands in the process .... They grew corn and beans on this .... Nov/ Karin, do you remember how much raisin within the flood plain? What is the ordinance? .... of ground we can do current flood plain Franklin/ This doesn't necessarily apply to wetlands. But in the flood plain you can- You have to, if you are going to put in development, raise it to one foot above the 100 year flood level. When you are talking about wetlands, there is other kind of law that comes into play with the Corps and to elevate or to fill those wetlands.. you would have to do some mitigation... permit from the Corps... provide compensatory wetlands elsewhere .... Nov/ Franklin/ When I was talking about one foot above 100 year, it is to put a structure in. Kubby/ Raising the grade, what does that do to the flow of water? Mullen/ Nothing. What I am suggesting is on the site, as you dredge out one area to raise another, you haven't displaced any water. You are dealing with the same dirt .... Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate ~ans=lption of ~alowe City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19 Kubby/ .... It is going to change how the water flows .... Might change the direction .... drainage .... Mullen/ It is all going to drain towards the river, that is where water goes° I guess what I am after... Is some indication from the council that at least you will allow us without dismissing this out of hand and that you will consider the Elk's use of this lower area if we can convince you that we can mitigate the wetlands problem down there because we have to do that. Baker/ Mullen/ Baker/ You could buy land for the other two holes? Mullen/ Where? Baker/ (Can't hear) .... public benefit .... Mullen/ It is a private club .... Baker/ Do you have a sense of how many of the Elk's use the course? Mullen/ Golf members. Audience/ (Can't hear). Nov/ 230 members of the Elk's Club are playing golf .... Mullen/ 230 memberships, half of which are families as opposed to single membership. You have got probably 340 people. Baker/ It is your position that any chemicals used on the golf course would be safe ..... Mullen/ That would be my position that golf course in today's world can mange in such a way that it would represent no appreciable risk at all to the- Baker/ Would the Elk's be willing to assume that risk? Mullen/ In what sense? Baker/ In the sense that if this all went through and your maintenance of the course created a problem for the wells or for some part of city operations. Would you be assuming Thisrepresents only areasonobly 8ccur~e ~anscrlpfion of ~elowa CIW council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20 financial risk? Mullen/ I think we would be assuming it as a matter of law but you have to look to your own city attorney for that. Would we be willing to sign up with an indemnity agreement. I can't commit the Elk's to that .... It would be difficult to prove.. drawing water from the river .... Baker/ So the safest thing for the city to do is not allow that intrusion from the golf course .... Mullen/ There are methods by which we can monitor ..... to determine the source. Baker/ If you ask me right now I would say I am not interested in using that for a golf course but if we determine what is the city obligation to the Elk's based on what is going on now,.. past... IS there a tradeoff? Is there some larger public benefit that the Elk's can provide for us? I am willing to listen to that ..... Unless there is a substantial public tradeoff... I wouldn't support it .... Mullen/ Tradeoff I see immediately is the fact you don't have to condemn an access along the Iowa River to supply your maintenance vehicles a way to get into these alluvial wells or to supply a bike trail. Baker/ Nov/ Baker/ Unless there is a substantial public benefit ..... Norton/ You know 44 acres of timber... possibility of putting one hole now .... You are already down the hill on #2 .... Comes down to me.o. matter of cost .... I don't have any problems with trying it down there ..... pesticides.. can be monitored .... Mullen/ Techniques available .... Norton/ Overall cost involved, I just don't have a feel for that. Nov/ Talk with DNR also... told there cannot be any use of pesticides within 500 feet ..... We need to check those kinds of things. Thisrepresents only areasonebly accurate ~anscrlptlon ofthelowa CIH council meeting ~ June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21 Kubby/ One of the reasons we are building a new water facility is because we can't handle the contamination of Iowa River .... It just doesn't make sense to facilitate that kind of use to so close .... especially around the alluvial and silurian. Mullen/ I think golf courses have a bad rep in terms of people's perceptions ..... chemicals.°° stay right where you put them .... they don't drift sideways... get bound up in first 3- 4 inches of top soil and root systems. Kubby/ ..°who is paying for research .... you tend to get one kind of answer... Those kind of analysis are real important to me .... I want to know who is paying for that guys research .... You need to look at the source of the information and read a lot of different kinds of stuff and make a determination and you can find reputable information that tells you all sorts of different conflicting- Baker/ Mullen/ I think your own consulting engineer will tell you... Howard Green has told you or will tell you... your consultant.°. wouldn't view this as a substantial risk. Nov/ But not clearly risk free. Mullen/ Franklin/ Our consultant has advised us not to locate the golf course holes in this location. Mullen/ But that is a lawyers answer. He can't be wrong with that answer .... Baker/ But you do agree that for you to use that 20 acres there is a cost involved, a money cost involved? Mullen/ (Can't hear). Baker/ Until we know clearly what is the public benefit tradeoff .... Mullen/ I don't dream that the city is going to pay $100,000 and let us use the ground. That is not my dream .... My hope was that with a cooperative effort in the alignment of the road .... None of us know exactly where that road is located. If the city and the Elk's come to some accommodation, you Thisrepresents only areaeonably accurate ~anscription ofthelowo Citycouncil meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session don't have to spend the cost to figure is .... Kubby/ Maybe the Elk's could golf course in Iowa. Page 22 out where that road investigate being the first organic Mullen/ .... You can mange a golf course without chemical pesticides .... introducing the Kubby/ ...agreement in perpetuity to have an organic golf course... make me much more interested. Mullen/ What we are really looking for is a willingness on the part of the council to at least consider this down here before go spend a lot of money to design it .... Nov/ There may be a consensus to consider this is and only if there are no chemicals used in those two holes. Baker/ And the financial implications are acceptable. Norton/ ...Nice to have some public use of that area .... Nov/ If there is a trail along the river, it will be public. Norton/ NOV/ .... Mullen/ Very practical thing for you .... If you look at the A1 Poots experience in Coralville .... people wanted to have a golf course view... We will build you a golf course view down here .... (Refers to map). Thornberry/ How many golf courses do you know that are either 7-8 holes long? Mullen/ None Thornberry/ ..... Second question is if no more land is available to the Elk's Club for golf holes, what do you do? Mullen/ I buy a place in Florida and leave... I don't know... You can't survive with a golf course with seven holes. You just won't be able to attract the kind of membership it has right now .... Elk's have kind of made a come back with this facility... It is a very attractive place for all ages to go. Thisrepresents only 8reasonably accurate ~anscrlption ofthelowa Clty coun~l ma~tng of Juna 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23 Thornberry/ The Elk's is not open to the public, you join° What is the reason for the Elk's and what do the Elk's do if they only play golf? .... Mullen/ Brandstatter/ We have been involved for many years... nationally and here in Iowa City with drug awareness .... We sponsor.. give money to that .... educational materials... work with Cathy Ockenfels .... We read the essays that the kids make to us at our lodge meetings. We provide camperships to children .... We had a flag ceremony last week... donate money to VA here in Iowa City .... Junior golf members .... classes .... Golf has a tendency... to make a pretty person out of young people .... Have sponsored an excellent viewpoint for 4th of July fireworks to anyone .... The Elk's Club... boy scout troop .... good mix in membership.. Most Elk's Clubs in State of Iowa .... in Iowa city... average age is probably half of what the other ones are... we are growing .... Facility that can be used by everyone who wants to show up and join .... Kubby/ What does it cost to become an Elk? Brandstatter/ $150 per year, membership fee .... full use to everything out there .... Year round golf membership is $655 for a two person family .... Family swimming pass .... We don't have any funding available other than donations ..... Thank you very much .... Woito/ Naomi, I have a question of Chuck Mulleno Were you thinking of a sale or lease arrangement or have you thought about that? Mullen/ I don't think it makes any difference for the Elk's... lease, easement, sale. Whatever is the cheapest. Franklin/ Can I summarize because I think we need to know where we are here? What I have is that there is some openness with the conditions with possible conditions that there would be no chemical usage. We need to define some kind of public benefit and financial implications for both parties need to be worked out. Did I hear that? Baker/ I would also like to get clarification from Linda about exactly what our legal obligations if we do what we need to regardless... What can we do period without regard to the two holes? Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate ~anscrlptlon ofthelowe City council meeting of June3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24 Franklin/ Okay. Did that hit everything? Baker/ We need to do something. We have a public r.o.w. What do we have the power to do now without an obligation back to them? The road. Woito/ You are talking about the road, not the trail. And not future liability for a spill. You are just talking about the road. Baker/ What is we can do that doesn't involve us having to negotiate for the two holes. Woito/ Quiet title action. Kubby/ Woito/ Has anyone talked to the DNR? Mullen/ The DNR and Corps. Kubby/ I think we do need to have in there .... to have the liability issue clarified. Franklin/ Okay. Nov/ Financial- Council/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-69 SIDE 2 Nov/ We can build a bike trail in road r.o.w. if we have to .... We don't need the Elk's property to have a bike trail ..... There is no go ahead° There is at least a possibility of considering it. Council/ Thornberry/ Given the answers to the questions that come back from the DNR, Corps of Engineers, from the money and the wetland thing. Nov/ Karin is taking good notes. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 25 "Monday Forum" (CBD Merchants) Presentation 96-69 S2 Nov/ Who is planning to speak here for the Monday Forum. We have all seen the video tape. We all know the arguments and the problems. Would you please go directly to solutions. Jim Clayton/ Okay. I can do that. You did all see the video? Council/ Clayton/ We couldn't edit it. We had to just do it. Norton/ It was compelling. Clayton/ After doing the video we came to the conclusion we felt there were two entrances into our d.t. off of the interstate highway system that we wanted to focus on .... Dubuque Street .... other one is off of 380 at Melrose .... easiest and most direct .... In an average day, 62,000 vehicles go past those two exits. 11,300 on Melrose and 50,611 at Dubuque Street. The DOT says there is more than two people in each passenger vehicle .... within two miles of Iowa City .... If we could get 1% of those people to pull off the highway... 1250 new customers every single day. 600 more cars to park every single day .... high traffic area with broad cross section .... Here is 45 million people driving down the road... we need to get those new customers to come dot. The interstate direction signs that you saw when we did the video .... The word Iowa is mentioned only once or twice .... We need to have the word downtown on those signs .... We think if we put downtown on those signs... we show you what the sign should say, what mile post it should be at .... Once they leave the interstate... we want those signs to say downtown with a directional arrow and a symbol that we will introduce at that junction which let's the person know that is what ia m going to look for to find d.t ..... Some kind of a graphic indicator that let you know that you are heading in the right direction .... a logo that would identify that you are on the right track to d.t .... We want those signs on all the access points that could lead you to the d.t .... As you get closer to d.t. we want that sign to add another element. instead of just saying d.t with a logo and arrow, now we want it to say d.t. parking .... we got a place for you to park ..... We want to bring you all the way into Washington Street. We want to let you see the vitality of dot .... show the customer the merchandise .... Following the signs .... There are no signs on our parking ramps .... It is a mystery building .... A sign that said immediate parking, over blank spaces available .... Once you are in the garage you are Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26 not done yet .... Chauncey Swan... a map outside that shows you are here and here is the d.t .... help you find your way around .... We need some painted lines on the pavement with a sign and a map that says you are here .... Capital Street is virtually a mall dedicated parking lot ..... You are finally getting close to the d.t. and you need to know where am I and where are the stores that I am looking for .... If we would take the bar advertising kiosks .... turn them into information stations with a map .... literature rack on the side ..... things that are happening in town .... We would propose to expand that and put other displays up at other strategic points ..... You would have an opportunity to see... here I Kubby/ Clayton/ You get somebody the opportunity to see on a map... broadens the exposure that we have... let them know that there is more than one potential destination point .... When you take all this information into consideration. We are sitting at a new crossroads .... So we are asking your support to energize the city staff to help us with the Department of Transportation to do whatever you can to implement some of these things in a partnership with the business community. We don't have a constituency ..... meeting since end of January... We can come up with ideas.°. We can't do it by ourselves. Making the dot. easy to find is just the first step .... We have got a lot of other work to do .... I have got a packet for each of you. We are prepared to talk about any or all of it .... We didn't have enough tapes to send any to city staff .... Nov/ I put my copy upstairs .... Norton/ Has anybody put it on Public Access or on Channel 4? Nov/ No. Clayton/ Nov/ Can we take this home and read it and call you. Clayton/ Baker/ Can we also put it back on the informal agenda soon to discuss among ourselves after we have read it? Thisrepresents only a reasonably eccuratetranscrtpfion ofthelowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27 Nov/ Yeah, sure .... Kubby/ Ask Jeff Davidson .... about the process for changing the signs on 1-80 .... we may need to get the University involved .... Baker/ ...billboard. Clayton/ They are very expensive ..... difficult .... You are all aware there are going to be all new signs on the interstate anyway .... overhead each lane when they go to the three lanes in each direction .... We are already starting late .... We would like to go after the signs that are out there now and see if we couldn't get those changes started .... Vanderhoef/ If we can add onto signs then why can we not add Dodge Street Iowa City all on one sign? Clayton/ Perhaps it could be changed. You are allowed three different destinations on each sign according to the DOT. Kubby/ The rules are... you can't add, you have to subtract ..... Clayton/ They told us three destinations on a sign .... Kubby/ We need to clarify that .... Norton/ ...get in the hopper for the new signs .... Vanderhoef/ I will be ready at the next meeting. Nov/ Read this and let's get Jeff to do research .... The next meeting is next week. That may be just a little bit too tight ..... Clayton/ We are at your disposal... We are kind of on the edge... enthusiasm ..... We know we have got a lot of other work to do. We need to get started .... Nov/ I don't want to promise a week. Thornberry/ What is the big question..°? Kubby/ .... too many signs .... sensitive to that issue and not over do it .... Thornberry/ ...A little sign that says Iowa City with an arrow .... Thlsrepresen~ only areasonably accurate ~anscrlption of ~elowa City counHI meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28 or whatever .... Norton/ ..eWe have got to move and change it .... Thornberry/ I will be ready in a week. Vanderhoef/ I will be ready to hear more in a week...? Norton/ Nov/ Will you check, please, to find out how much information you can get within a week and check the Monday agenda for next week...? Arkins/ Sure. Norton/ Work session next Monday. Council/ Clayton/ Thank you. Norton/ Thank your group a lot. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of June 3, 1996, WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29 Parking Rates 96-69 S2 Atkins/ We weren't real sure what you wanted .... with exactly what you wanted to do with respect to the issue of parking rates. Joe and Bill are here ..... open item... Baker/ We had talked at one time about two possibilities .... raising rates outside of d.to metered area and extending meters. Arkins/ We have a number of proposals, options .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Baker/ Dubuque Street thing .... Thornberry/ I would like to have the head member of the Monday Forum .... representative of the Monday Forum who are d.to business people... like to know what the dot. Monday Forum .... the group of business people thought about raising the rates of the parking ramp .... Nov/ The DTA tells us regularly do not raise any parking rates anywhere. So we know what they think. Kubby/ The other thing we talked about... have street rates higher per hour than the garage rates .... creative an incentive for people to go to the garages. I am very interested in that technique. Norton/ We had Dubuque rate going up from $.45 to .50 an hour. Outlying street meters... $.30 to .40 ..... Outlying ramps .... outlying parking lots. Nov/ We talked about permits°.. hourly .... Norton/ There were three things: outlying ramps and lots, outlying parking meters and the Dubuque Street Ramp. Kubby/ o..DTA... hourly rates at the meters being higher than the ramps .... Nov/ Norton/ .... I thought these things were already in the hopper. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of June 3, 1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30 Nov/ Not the increased rates on meters .... Council/ Vanderhoef/ This is what you are looking for. Norton/ That was all from a memo talking about Transit. Norton/ Outlying meters- $.30 to .40 per hour .... $90,000 Increase monthly permits in outlying $35 to $40 per month .... I would like to act on some of them or all of them° Baker/ Kubby/ I would go for $.05 increase ~n Dubuque Street ramp if the street cost were higher. Norton/ Outlying street up $.10. Baker/ I am ready for that. Nov/ Baker/ ..... talked about it for two years ..... relationship between those ramps and the meters .... The idea that rasing the Dubuque Street ramp a nickel is going to drive people to Coralville. If you believe that we are going to be paralyzed forever. Kubby/ .... feels accessible .... Vanderhoef/ Joe, can you give me any kind of figures on what is happening with our permit in the ramp? Are we having lots of them ? Are we not filling those? Fowler/ Right now all the permits are sold and I believe there is probably 150-200 names back on the waiting list .... Kubby/ Are you allowing people to be added on the waiting list at this point? Fowler/ Yes. Norton/ ...outlying meter... $.10 raise on outlying meter. When was the last time those were raised? Vanderhoef/ '86, is that right? Thisrepresents only are~onably accuratetranscription ofthaloweC~ council me~lng of Juna 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31 Fowler/ When we bonded for the Chauncey Swan Ramp, we figured the amount of revenue that was needed for that. We didn't increase any parking other than the bare minimum to cover. Norton/ Outlying meters went to $.30 ten years ago. Nov/ ~nd the current d.t. meters went up in 1992. Norton/ I am talking about .... just the outlying meters. That is ten years. It seems to me unreasonable not to think that those ought to go up to some extent... inflation... outlying meters from $.30 to .40. Thornberry/ I have no problem with outlying meters. Norton/ °..That one ought to be done in all due conscience. Fowler/ One quick possible problem. If you increase the outlying meters, you could end up where you had to put a quarter in them. It wouldn't take nickels or dimes unless we go buy all electric meters .... Kubby/ Fowler/ They take quarters and dimes now .... Nov/ If we go to $.40 per hour, why take only quarters? Fowler/ Because that is the way the mechanism is set up .... people are going to complain .... It will probably only take a quarter when you increase the rates unless we buy new meters. Baker/ Fowler/ Nov/ Baker/ You got a meter with two holes in it. One takes a quarter and one takes a dime. The most you can put in is- Fowler/ It is the internal workings. It is the gearing on the inside that it is a wheel with teeth cut in it .... Nov/ ..°people could put in four dimes? Fowler/ .... they can pay... $.35 .... They are ten hour meters. Thisrepresents only aroasonably accurate transcription oftholowa City coun~l meeting of Juna 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work session Page 32 Nov/ For example, you can now put in three dimes for one hour. Why would you not be able to put in four dimes for one hour? Fowler/ Because the internal mechanism .... Council/ Baker/ It will cost us money to convert to $.40 an hour. Fowler/ You go to the Old Library lot right now.. only put a quarter in them... wanted to make you aware of that .... Nov/ Fowler/ The one hour meters and two hour meters will be fine. It is the five hours and ten hours .... Vanderhoef/ If we go to $°40 an hour°.. plugging it for eight hours. How does that compare with the cheapest of the ramps for a permit? Fowler/ For a permit .... It would be...pay for ten hours... pay $4.00 a day .... $20 ....twice for what you are paying for a permit in a ramp... double the cheapest permit we have .... Fowler/ Or residential neighborhoods .... d.t .... Nov/ o..If I want to park at the Old Capital Mall... there is no question that I can spend $5.00 everyday... If I want to encourage somebody like that to not park there all day.°. incentive to park at a lower cost meter or lower cost ramp for the all day person. Vanderhoef/ ...be sure that we aren't overcharging and pushing people into the parking ramp just so they can get a permit .... Kubby/ That will work only if we could possibly agree to expand the number of permits in one ramp .... Norton/ I don't see why the staff doesn't give us a coherent context of break rate changes in the outlying meters, in the ramps, and in the outlying areas so that we don't do bad things of the kind you are implying .... reasonable set .... Fowler/When we put this information together, it was to point out it was going to be potential cash shortfall in parking revenue while we are waiting for the bonds to retire on the previous Thlsropmsents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowe City council meeting of June 3.1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 33 ramps. At that time we listed options that you would look at .... Norton/ .°.looked at as a package or separately? .... Nov/ They are not a package. You may one of them or all of them. Thornberry/ What I would like to see is the people who are going to buy all day fares .... see them parking further away and have the short term shoppers be able to park in the ramps. Baker/ We still control that by the number of permits that we sell. Nov/ ....I want it provide versus the CBD ramp. An Norton/ How can that work? Nov/ some difference in outlying parking incentive to walk a few blocks. .o.If we went up to $.40 an hour there is still a difference between that and the Capital Street Ramp. But I would not want that to go to $.40 an hour unless we also put $.50 an hour in Dubuque Street Ramp. Norton/ I would buy those. Thornberry/ What do you do about outlying parking, Larry? Baker/ Naomi's proposal, that makes sense to me, $.40, $.50. stepping back and looking at the outlying meters. Then Thornberry/ Wouldn't you want the people who are going to be there for five hours parking further away? Give them an incentive to do so, right? Baker/ But I wouldn't want to leave those alone and also do nothing with Dubuque and Chauncey. Norton/ .... $°30 to.40 in Chauncey Swan; .30 to.40 in outlying meters. Do the ramps ..... 50 in Dubuque Street. Nov/ That is what I just said. Baker/ And leave the outlying stuff Nov/ I haven't talked about the changing the meters .... alone? outlying meters .... Cost of Thlsrepr~ent$ only areasonably accur~e trsnscHption of ~elowa City council meeting efJune 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34 Kubby/ .... don't want people do nickels and dimes°.. Nov/ How much expense is there for changing meters? .... Fowler/ Shouldn't be that expensive on long term outlying meters .... It would cost you $175-200 a meter if you wanted to go and buy all new meters .... less than $5.00 a meter otherwise .... Nov/ What if we chose to increase the on street meters right here in d.t.?... Fowler/ It would just be a couple of dollars a meter... $5-$10. Nov/ Kubby/ ... We haven't really talked about why are we raising rates and where is it going? Vanderhoef/ We are talking about paying off bonds and building a new ramp. Baker/ ...and maintenance .... connection between Transit and Parking .... Nov/ I am still distressed that we don't have a proposal in front of us to deal with... invent the thing... Arkins/ Do you want one? .... If you want a formal proposal on it, we will package together and send it to you. Council/ Nov/ We have all apparently agreed that we could use better signage. I could see some of these increased costs could go towards signage .... Baker/ ...We talked about doing lots of other things with the ramps. So Naomi has come up with an excellent proposal. Dubuque goes to $.50, Chauncey goes to $.40. Nov/ And we did not talk about increasing the $.30 meters .... we did not come up with anything. Kubby/ It has been over ten years. Vanderhoef/ I don't think $.40 is out of line. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription of ~elowa City council meeting of Juna 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, Nov/ Okay, Norton/ To 1996 Council Work Session agreement on outlying change .... $.40 .... Page 35 outlying meters. Thornberry/ Nov/ So we are going to consider a $.10 difference again° Thornberry/ .... Kubby/ What if we said this is what we are interested in doing and asking staff to tell us specifically again how much money will be raised and what the possible affects of the combination°..? Thornberry/ ...got to look at the whole picture. Norton/ Let's ask staff... Chauncey Swan to $.40; Dubuque to $.50; outlying meters to $.40 and see .... how it looks° Baker/ .... We ought to put it on the agenda, have a p.h. Thornberry/ Nov/ The mall is on paper ..... Not sure it is going to be as big as it looks on paper. Norton/ Do we want to consider permit things at all in this package? Nov/ Yes, we can° Norton/ Kubby/ When is the last time they were raised? Dollman/ In FY92 .... Kubby/ Parking permits are such a commodity .... we can afford to increase our rates slightly. They should go up a little bit .... Vanderhoef/ I am not as interested in that .... Baker/ I am less interested in the monthly passes- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-70 SIDE I Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36 Vanderhoef/ Permits come into the cost of doing business d.t ...... driving businesses out of d.t .... Some businesses have moved out of d.t. because the permits are too expensive .... Norton/ Let's go ahead with what we can get... do the three. Nov/ Can we do a University of Iowa comparison also.,. permits and meters are running these days? Fowler/ They are going to be increasing their parking rates this summer,.. hourly rates this summer and over next few years..° increase each year... until they are competitive with what ours are .... They range from $4.00 a month for outlying spot .... Nov/ Find something d.t .... University library lots... give us a comparison. Fo~ier/ Sure. Nov/ They currently have a waiting list for a central lot .... Kubby/ Making sure there is a lot of turn over in spaces... make it a little more expensive .... Baker/ ...I Just want to get the other three rolling .... Kubby/ We should do it all at once... whole system is moving in concert .... Council/ Kubby/ .... One causes a change in behavior somewhere else. So there is a direct relationship. Nov/ I still want to know what the DTA has said about this .... Helling/ Nothing has been said to me recently .... John Murphy/ There was a comment made,.. p.h. about transit .... I am not speaking for the DTA... I think those are the best spots... pull up and park right in front of a store... It should be higher.., Nov/ Is the DTA meeting some day soon? Murphy/ Usually 4th Tuesday of the month .... parking meetings every This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Wor~ Session Page 37 other month°.. I can certainly get people together. You guys put something together and we will have a response .... I would like to know°.. what the shortfall is .... I know there was a reason for the different rates in the ramps... encourage people to park in Dubuque Street. Nov/ We did that at the time there wasn't au alternative in Chauncey Swan .... Shipping people further east is the way to go today. I would like to see the contrast there .... Council/ Nov/ Kubby/ Murphy/ As far as moving people east, we would like to see when it can be accomplished moving the permit holders .... Kubby/ To free up that short term space for shoppers. Nov/ We do have varied rates for permits also .... Atkins/ Do you want a proposal? Council/ Yes. Nov/ I hear a pretty strong feeling here about the parking ramp increase. Atkins/ You want us to prepare a proposal based upon the things that we have heard to the best of our ability and our own wisdom° Do you wish the wisdom of the folks sitting out there in the audience before it comes back to you? Council/ Yes. Atkins/ .... Okay .... We are going to send you (DTA) everything that we would send the council° They want your opinion prior to them deciding. Okay. Vanderhoef/ And how the money is going to be spent. Atkins/ Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate ~anscrlption of ~elowa City council meeting of June 3,1996, WS060396 June 3, 1996 council Work Session Page 38 Holiday Enforcement 96-70 S1 Kubby/ Issue is we don't treat all same .... city recognized holidays the Arkins/ .... Our general policy has been if d.t. is open, we enforce. Kubby/ Do we enforce on Memorial Day? Arkins/ No. Kubby/ The mall is open .... No transit on Memorial Day... What are the holidays we are talking about then? Dollman/ By the ordinance there are six days: New Years Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day. Meters are not enforced and ramps are not. Norton/ Martin Luther King and Veteran's? Vanderhoef/ Is Memorial Day the only day the stores are open? Kubby/ Norton/ Some are open on Independence Day. Fowler/ There are five days that we enforce that are negotiated AFSCME holidays: President's Day, Martin Luther King's Day, Veteran's Day, day after Thanksgiving, floating holiday .... Those are days we do enforce. Employee negotiated holidays. Atkins/ Christmas Eve is considered a floating holiday .... Norton/ .... matter of respect .... even if the stores are open, the meters don't have to be enforced .... Nov/ A lot of offices that are open also. Baker/ Negotiated holidays but we still enforce the meters... Fowler/ The way we got to working these days .... Veteran's Day of '82 .... we had a traffic jam .... re-evaluate the holidays that we worked... and didn't .... They had observed what a mess it could be without traffic control .... It was more in response to traffic congestion in the parking ramp .... Baker/ Thisrepresents only areasonably accurMe ~anscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 39 Fowler/ It is a city ordinance resolution .... Baker/ Norton/ Maybe another option ..... continue to enforce meters... do more to recognize holidays .... Nov/ ..... We don't want to discriminate by saying we are going to have a city expense holiday celebration for this one .... Kubby/ Shouldn't we be consistent with how we treat those holidays in terms of meters? Nov/ I am not sure consistency is necessary .... Kubby/ Kathy's point is leadership...respectful... Martin Luther King .... more involved .... treat it like Labor Day and like 4th of July .... We should respect it that way with meters as well as celebrating it. Baker/ I like your idea of consistency .... certain days that doesn't make sense .... I talked to Kathy as wello.. lots of ways to measure that respect .... I would like to see us be consistent .... do other things .... Explore ways to cooperate with the University when they do a more formal recognition of Martin Luther King .... Council/ Vanderhoef/ .... loading zone problem .... We need those loading zones .... Kubby/ But there are some stores open .... Vanderhoef/ There are some reasons for looking at certain ones individually. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ This town does a very good job of honoring Veteran's Day ..... Chamber kind of thing .... The Vets are honored. Baker/ The Human Rights Commission should look at what do we do... If there is something else that we can be doing as a city through that Commission .... to con~emorate that holiday .... Norton/ Thlsrspr~ents only areasonably accur~e transcription ~ ~elowa City council meetingof June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40 Kubby/ Nov/ The Veteran's groups .... Mayor says welcome .... Norton/ Let's see what we can do on a private basis to enhance recognition of it... City can certainly participate in something .... Vanderhoef/ We do have local programming... work with city staff .... Thornberry/ ... Kubby/ I think we should celebrate holidays .... Nov/ Do I hear anybody who wants to change...? Baker/ .... We ought to pursue some other things we ought to be doing ....connection between parking meter enforcement and respect for the person is holiday .... I don't share that same concern. Nov/ Sounds as if we are not going to change the enforcement kinds of things that we have been doing but we are going to consider some kind of participation in a celebration. Baker/ Ask the HR's Commission, the PATV people,encourage them. Norton/ There are Veteran's groups .... Nov/ Let's move on. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of June 3, 1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Work Session Meeting Time 96-70 S1 Nov/ Work session meeting time? Kubby/ Change it to 7:00, the informal. Nov/ Fine with me .... Baker/ 7:00 is fine. Karr/ Start that July Council/ Yes. Karr/ 7:00 and 7:00 starting July lo Kubby/ It will be easier to explain to the public. Council/ Page 41 1, the same time we start the formals. Thtsreprasents only areasonably accuratetranscrlption ofthalowa City council meotingofJune 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 42 council A~enda/Time 96-70 Sl 1. (Agenda #12- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE 1996 MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR PROJECT CAPITOL STREET PARKING RAMP.) Nov/ I talked to Joe about parking ramps repairs and I ask him to explain it and then I forgot about it. Does anybody know? .... Arkins/ Cleaning of the concrete, resealing, water proofing. I can have a summary detail ..... Fowler/ They are in Capital Street Parking Ramp .... fix concrete spalls .... removing loose and bad concrete... filler .... entire ramp... Levels B & C... putting a membrane°.. over concrete on those two floors only .... control joint... replacing the bad ones .... Those floors .... shown highest increase in chloride ..... Thornberry/ Fowler/ The membrane is a three layer application ..... In addition we have specified for a better quality paint to be used to mark the lines in there ..... give us a lot longer life .... This does not include the walls .... Nettings for birds .... rough draft of the aesthetics improvements to both ramps .... As soon as that is in final formwe will get that to you. That will be a separate item ..... Hopefully we will come back with a lower cost and brighter interior° 2. (Agenda #2d(6)-CONSIDER A RESOLUTIONAPPROVING, AUTHORIZING, AND DIRECTING THE MAYOR EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST A LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THE TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY AND ANAGREEMENT FOR THE SUBORDINATION OF SUCH USE TO EXISTING EASEMENT RIGHTS, AND TO ACCEPT THE DEDICATION OF ADDITIONAL RIGHT-OF-WAY ALONG BARRINGTON ROAD IN WINDSOR RIDGE SUBDIVISION.) Kubby/ Will the neighborhood association be responsible for maintaining the property the sign is on as well as the sign itself? .... Woito/ I don't know. Let me check on that. Nov/ (See #1) 3. Vanderhoef/ Why do we always get the DR minutes two to a packet .... getting stuff sort of late on some of that .... I Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate ~anscrlptlon ofthe Iowa Ci~ council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 43 just wondered about that one. 4. (Agenda #2d(1)- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST THE SEMENT AGREEMENT FOR TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, AND OUT TO LUNCH, INC. D/B/A AS BLIMPIE AND b~CO~MON GROUNDS FOR A SIDEWALK CAFE. (RENEWAL)) Vanderhoef/ I wanted to say thank you. I was well satisfied with the sidewalk cafe information in there .... 5. Vanderhoef/ I read this on the Fire Department. I think that would be kind of fun to visit... Atkins/ It is up to you. Let Andy know that you would like to go along. Nov/ It is the same day as the parks tour. Arkins/ .... Kubby/ 6. Vanderhoef/ Do you all get the Reflections from the Chamber of Commerce .... Joe Tye "Never Fear, Never Quit" Conference that they are promoting for this fall. I plan to attend that .... 7. Vanderhoef/ I wondered if anyone was thinking about National League of cities? .... I cannot attend the Boston meeting. I would be available for the Denver meeting. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ Denver is September 6-7 .... 8. Nov/ We were going to talk about a travel policy at one point. Steve is working on a memo. Baker/ Atkins/ I have it drafted... we will be getting back to you next day or so. Baker/ That is just for how we handle our billings and stuff, right? Arkins/ It is a generalized policy ..... It also has a component for Thisrepresents only areesonably accurMe ~enscriptlon ~ ~elowa City council meeting ~ June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 44 you all, too .... Depends on how you want to deal with the issue. We will have it for you shortly. 9. Thornberry/ I asked about the light on Kirkwood and Gilbert. Atkins/ Yes, you should have a memo in your packet .... I put a memo in the packet .... Jim is going to do a cursory review .... Council/ 10. Thornberry/ Is there any interest in seeing if we can possible move .... the trucks out of the cemetery on weekends? .... Atkins/ I have a memo from Terry .... I have not read it ..... I will get that to you right away. Thornberry/ Just move them Friday .... Atkins/ Let me ask that. Council/ Arkins/ I will ask that question for you. Thornberry/ Once we get the storm damage cleaned up, maybe we can look at weekends .... Atktns/ Let me ask Terry .... 11. Norton/ I understand we are meeting on Thursday with Coralville and the Board. Have we an agenda for that? 965 only? Atkins/ Should be in your packet. Nov/ .... 965, transit issues, Norton/ Are we all set on 965 Kubby/ It was a weak "yes" to that is ito on our own position? the east alignment. Norton/ ... If we go west I would want to see their growth area change. Thornberry/ If there is going to be a vote ..... Norton/ It gets in the growth question for me. The fringe is not to be discussed in any general at that one? That must be hanging Thisrepresents only areasonably 8ccurMe transcription of theIowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 45 somewhere. Have we just not heard? Nov/ We sent a letter. Norton/ 12. Norton/ I wanted to bring up one quick question .... I did get a call about this sidewalk cafe situation ...... It does seem to me the question of whether the fencing requirement. There is a differential there that if you are d.t. on city property, you don't need a fence even if you are drinking beer in somebody's face. Whereas out there you are fairly remote location you have to be concealed to drink beer behind a fence .... Local requirement .... more easily done d.t .... Nov/ Norton/ Doesn't seem to me we are very consistent .... or even handed. I would like to see us consider it .... beer gardens.°. outdoor service areas... Kubby/ Karr/ An outdoor service area is on private property and it is outside of the dot. CBD. Sidewalk cafe is, indeed, on city owned property and it must be in the CBD. For that very reason the inconsistency was recognized by staff .... staff came in and recommended no alcohol be served .... lengthy discussion .... council felt in order to give sidewalk cafe people a fair shot at running their business... serving full menu.. allowed, on experimental basis, sale of alcohol, waiving the restrictions for the fencing requirement because it was city property. In exchange for that there is also a shorter season and shorter operating time. They must close at 10:00..o seasonal .... Outdoor service area... viewed as more permanent extension ....... Urge you to have staff make a report to you ..... Norton/ ..... Nov/ ... most of them are not serving liquor. Norton/ Some are. Karr/ Pancheros .... Sidewalk cafes has a sunset clause. It will be coming to you on October 1997. Thisrepresents ollly areesonebly eccuratetmnscrlptlon ofthelowa City coun~l meeting ~ June3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 council Work Session Page 46 Norton/ I am proposing re-thinking. Karr/ Vanderhoef/ Karr/ We could talk about it the same time we are reviewing the sidewalk cafeo Norton/ That is fine. We will take it up then .... 13. Norton/ I am still hoping plaza cleanup... d.t. people have worked hard on that thing... exciting. Arkins/ I was unaware of the Monday Forum .... invited to their next meeting .... find a little more about what they are interested in. I will let you know. 14. (Agenda #2e(1). Correspondence. Mark and Ronda Lipsius regarding refuse and recycling for "four-plexes.") Kubby/ I was interested in making sure that we respond to the people who own two properties... 4 unit an one that has more than 4 units and our refuse situation .... reference .... if there are two or more abutting lots they should be treated as one? Arkins/ That was the employees opinion .... That is being checked right now. Woito/ We are looking at it... the whole scheme. Kubby/ Nov/ I thought it was relevant .... Kubby/ We need to do some follow up. Woito/ We are reviewing that and we are not ready to bring it back to you yet. Kubby/ Can we make sure that we communicate with these people that we are reviewing it? Atkins/ Yes. Woito/ We need to look at the big picture. Thisrepresents only 8reasonably accurate ~anscriptlon of ~elowa City council meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 47 Council/ Woito/ The ones they are building are huge... with five bedrooms and that is part of the problem. We are looking at all of the problems that you just mentioned. Council/ Kubby/ Last item about Seth Crist and his bicycle. To make sure that he has been informed of the current status of the perpetrators and to acknowledge to him that we don't thinkwe handled this very well. I thinkwe need to own up to that... Arkins/ ...I will find out for sure..° 16. (Agenda #2e(4) o Correspondence. Rev. Roy C. Nilsen, Zion Lutheran Church, regarding Oakland Cemetery.) Nov/ Can we write a letter to Zion Lutheran Church to say that yes, we are aware of the trucks at the cemetery is not something that we hadn't thought about ... we do have plans. Atkins/ I am meeting next week with the consultation of- I thought I would put that on the agenda. I will write them .... 17. Baker/ Ginger reminded me I have a personal conflict this Thursday... I will not be at the joint meeting .... 18. Baker/ June 11 .... regular meeting .... 6:30? All right. 19. Baker/ I thought we were going to talk soon about issue of zoning problems and residential near d.t. near CB-5 zone... new apartment being built, 4-5 bedroom units being built. Is that coming to the agenda? CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-70 SIDE 2 Atkins/ Karin... she understood that she was to prepare some work for you. I will check for you .... Woito/ Larry, I think she still has some questions about the issue that you want looked at. Atkins/ I will have to check with you. Kubby/ One is south of Burlington. Other one is just new apartment in residential. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of June 3, 1996. W8060396 June 3, 1996 Council Work Session Page 48 Arkins/ Yes... two issues .... Baker/ Conservation zones on north side in College Hill area. Woito/ D.t. she understood but I think Ernie threw in let's do all multiple dwellings... not clear about. Council/ Baker/ ...density limitations .... tear down houses .... That is still in the works .... 20. (Agenda #6- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING APPLICATION FOR 1996 COMPREHENSIVE IMPROVEMENTS ASSISTANCE PROGRAM (CIAP) Nov/ In our housing rehabilitation grant application (CIAP) there is ordinary stuff for the most part .... Then there is one residence where they are going to put $10,000 basement .... What is that?... Can you find out? Atkins/ Yes. Nov/ .... $10,000 into one residence sounds like an awful lot of repairs .... Atkins/ We will find out for you. Thornberry/ Atkins/ It is a grant, 100% grant .... Thornberry/ We have to match... Atkins/ ...We are constantly investing in our properties anyway .... declare that as our match .... Thornberry/ That is the problem .... I would just assume not have it be our property ..... 21. Nov/ Those of you who are going to Coralville on Thursday, be aware there are lots of construction .... Kubby/ Could we arrange some carpools? Norton/ I will be happy to take people. Kubb¥/ .... dunk tank .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of June 3, 1996. W$060396 June 3, 1996 Norton/ Tom 6th .... 22. Thornberry/ I will Citizen tomorrow. Adjourned: 10:05 PM Council Work Session Page 49 Murhpy called and said it was rescheduled for the be talking about an article in the Press Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate ~enscrlptlon of thalowa City coundl meeting of June 3,1996. WS060396