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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-07-15 TranscriptionJuly 15, 1996 Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Nov, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Absent: Baker. Staff: Arkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Craig, Schoon, Dilkes, Clark, Nichols, Miklo, Kugler, Yapp, Davidson, Schmadeke. Tapes: 96-77, side 2; 96-81, all; 96-82, all; 96-83, side 1. Library Expansion 96-77 S2 [Library Board: Traw, Hubbard, Spencer, McMurray, Greenleaf. Absent: Cox] Singerman, Swaim, Martin, Charles Traw/ There are certain things that nobody seems to question. One is we do need an expanded library and that expanded library should remain d.t. What we hope to obtain and want to accomplish is to enter into a course of conduct and work with the city council so that we can arrive at a program and plan that we are in agreement on and one that you feel you can support as well as put on a ballot ..... brief background .... talk to you about the projects that we have investigated .... advantages and disadvantages .... question and answer. I have handouts for the council which generally outline the projects that we have looked at (distributes handouts) .... visual aide .... There are basically three projects that we have looked at .... expanding to the west, the project that we have talked to the city council about most recently. The other is to fill out the second floor and build a third floor on the existing building. And another option... is building a new building on 64-1A ..... Expansion to the west... most expansive project .... $12.4 million. Added costs .... project up to about $15.1 million and then there is the land acquisition on top of that. Advantages of that project .... continue to service the Iowa City public and library would remain open during the construction... utilize our current building and we could allow for future expansion and upgrades .... disadvantages .... most complicated and expensive .... displacement of commercial tenants during construction .... The initial project... going up that we looked at is a little bit more difficult to get the cost on... estimates..° $12 million .... total costs would be $15 million .... depends on how you look at it .... library... would have to reinforce all of those columns .... issue becomes do we close the library during construction ..... try to maintain the facility as you are doing it .... expanding the construction time... additional costs... option would be to close the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 2 library and re-open somewhere else .... cost associated .... difficult to believe that we would need all staff .... what services can be provided... Advantages of are there is a current building... don't have to purchase a site .... Third option .... same cost as expanding up. Vanderhoef/ And the same square footage? Traw/ Yes. Building a new library on 64-1A .... $9.95 million, total costs $12.4 million which includes the soft costs... advantages are least expensive, easiest to explain... maintain services in existing library... disadvantages are we vacate the existing building .... eliminates other options for 64- 1A .... three options that we looked at .... Dan did some cost analysis for us on going underground and the costs for the library footage were significantly higher than any of the other options .... Vanderhoef/ I got that... appreciated it .... Traw/ .... 64-1A ..... wasn't available when we got into nuts and bolts of trying to find a way to expand and stay d.t ..... best solution... go west .... I think what we need to do is get discussion going so we can all move in the same direction .... That is just the background ..... Nov/ ...comments. Norton/ Chuck, I was one of those who was thinking about 64-1A ..... trying to get a bunch of private space out of that as well as public. If the library would also be available .... I have sketched out of dividing up some of the components... it could work on six stories there .... including 65,000 for the hotel and 30,000 for the conference center .... many of these functions are compatible with the library ..... What appeals to me... gets a lot of people together around an exciting concept for the city .... might make an exciting package .... How much rush is there is another question? Traw/ I guess in summary, what the library board is trying to do is to do some long range planning to avoid some crisis management because the space needs are such that if we went on the ballot in November... it would be the end of 1999 ..... before we would be occupying it ..... shortfall is projected at about 20,000 square feet .... In terms of timing we would have liked to have it done yesterday ..... Becomes more crucial each year and each month .... Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcrlptionofthelowa Citycouncll meeting ofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 3 Lehman/ Chuck .... entire council appreciates the amount of effort and time and quality of work the board has done ..... all of a sudden 64 appears to be a possibility. I think the council has got to put the pieces together in a big puzzle... timing is just horrible from a bond issue standpoint .... Steve didn't you tell me that we are planning at some point... to add another level to the Civic Center? Atkins/ We have talked about adding a third floor to accommodate a possible Davis Building Assisted Housing out .... $650,000 project .... Lehman/ .... A public building on 64-1A that housed a library, a civic center that would be good for 20-40 years... performing arts area... convention facility... appeal to the public... redoing the plaza area d.t ..... the timing is horrible .... think there is a real commitment on the part of council... library is a very very high priority but I think it has to fit into the total scheme of things and it is our job to see that it does ..... If we could put a new roof on and do minor remodeling and finished the 81,000 square feet... breathing time to see what can be put together... I think... direction city should take Traw/ We haven't looked at that... In terms of projected space needs and current shortfall, 8100 square feet would be a small portion of that ..... I think to do it, it would be more than just a matter of adding 8100 square feet .... have to do some re-renovating anyway .... I understand what you are saying. Lehman/ Re-doing 8100 square feet and doing the roof... Was that going to require a bond issue? Traw/ Possibly I am sure .... we can add that 8100 square feet without reinforcement of existing structure... just finished the second floor .... book weight bearing .... Lehman/ Biggest frustration... library board is an autonomous board...procedures and discussions. We see the final product, we don't see the process .... I probably should have been more aggressive in reading minutes or whatever .... I looked at my packet and I see that the library board has made an offer on the Lenoch and Cilek building and I call Steve at home .... what in the world is going on .... Can they buy that building without the council? He said... you have to approve it ..... Traw/ I think the board misperceived the information maybe the This represents only areasonably eccurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 4 council was getting and I think communication could have been better at that point. Lehman/ Certainly from my perspective it would have been better. I don't disagree with your thought process at all... now we changed the rules on you... I do think we should... take a look at a bigger picture. Kubby/ Dee... Norton, how did you figure out that the total needs of the library, in terms of square footage, and some CenterSpace area, could be on 64-1A and still be only 30% public space? .... Norton/ I am assuming that the current library space is 49,000 .... I assume that we could get 218- or so on 64-1A with six stories .... Then I tried to break it down into private and public .... Under private I put conference center 30,000; hotel 65,000; retail/restaurant 20,000 .... The numbers do work it seems to me. Kubby/ Susan Craig/ Those are the current library figures. The expanded square footage- Norton/ I understand the new library. I am talking 80,000 square feet for the library, the new space; 30,000 for conference center; 65,000 for the hotel; 20,000 for retail; 6,500 for info gathering center ..... over in library I put communications center and I expanded it a little bit ..... visual learning arts center, 4500 and retails pace 40,000 .... Kubby/ My basic question, we already kind of decided what we wanted on 64-1A in terms of public use space .... If those components are still there, how do you add the expanded library square footage to that without subtracting other stuff out? Norton/ I moved some of them back into the library space, existing space ..... There might be a million ways to slice this cake .... This does not involve acquisition of Lenoch and Cilek building .... Most of the things that we are talking about are fairly compatible .... Jesse Singerman/ What is your process for developing 64-1A and how long do you anticipate that it would take you to put together a project of this type? It sounds quite complicated ..... I can tell you... harder than you think. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting ofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 5 Nov/ We have been talking about it for years ..... Kubby/ .... We haven't even started to talk about it .... think about what our process has been...Not convinced that we able at this point to take on this kind of project ..... Makes me feel like the time frame would be very extensive .... If we look at those two parcels all together and the ped mall, what difference does it make if the library is where it is there .... Doing that all together, to me, is a huge process that we would need to figure out .... phase it in .... library... have that be phase one .... Norton/ There may be a lot of ways to get there .... acquisition cost of that corner building ..... looking for RFP on 64-1A and see how they relate to this. Nov/ We are looking for proposals on an analysis for feasibility. We may not even get that far. Stephen Greenleaf/ To give a little bit of history that you weren't privy to .... always kind of cast an eye on that vacant lot to the south of us ..... first concern was what do we do with a building that is not very old .... Other thing was the conversations for CenterSpace have been... weighed down by uncertainty by a high price tag ..... library is driven by a proven need... expansion is driven by use... CenterSpace is a new and innovative item that we conjecture about. You are a little bit working with apples and oranges ..... Kubby/ I would like to hear from council members ..... specifically... put this issue on ballot in November, how would it have to change? Where would it have to be? ..... Nov/ Kubby/ .... It is our obligation to be really clear about what our acceptable levels are ..... Nov/ .... I think council may have said the library needs to expand but we don't want it there, there is too expensive .... Kubby/ Say space and money, what your maximum is that you are willing to accept ..... lay out some of those specific concerns. Nov/ Let's talk about what is possibly acceptable. Dee Norton had one idea. Dee Vanderhoef .... This ~presents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 6 Vanderhoef/ I started thinking about going underground specifically because it wouldn't take a building off of the tax rolls .... When we are looking at a price tag of $15 million and we are not able to phase that ..... I did look at the underground. I still don't have figures to let me know exactly how it will wash out ..... I also can see some possibilities with what Dee is saying... It would all have to be above ground ..... I have come up with a group of Universities that have underground libraries ..... There are lots of places around that I think we might be able to investigate and use some of that kind of space in conjunction with what we presently have and it could work into the 64-1A .... Kubby/ Were there any public libraries on the list? ..... Vanderhoef/ No and some of these mixed spaces are mixed use .... Minnesota is a retail bookstore ..... all sorts of things .... There are possibilities with this. Another thing that I keep looking at with the present plan is I am trying to envision flow ..... going to take three new staff persons to staff this new space... conversations at budget time that you still had a priority for another staff person... Are we still looking for that additional staff person for the space that we presently have? Traw/ ...of those three that would be one of those persons. Of those three, it would be one additional maintenance person .... Vanderhoef/ Traw/ It is three including the maintenance .... Craig/ The original estimate was 2 1/2 to 3 staff for expanded space. That does not include the position that we had asked for through the years. Vanderhoef/ So we could be up at 3 1/2 to 4 positions Lehman/ Steve, would it require a referendum to get the money to do the 8100 square feet? .... Atkins/ (Can't hear). Lehman/ I would support a referendum to finish off the second floor, do the roof, do minor remodeling on the interior and give us some time to look at the big picture .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcript[on of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 7 Kubby/ How do we feel .... to have another library referendum? .... Lehman/ My gut feeling is if we take a look at the bigger project, it may be much much more than just the library. It needs a new roof anyway ..... 8100 square feet is something you are not wasting any money refinishing it Kubby/ ..°perception and ballots can live or die on perception .... Lehman/ Hubbard/ Just to respond to that. I would be anxious that we feel like a little bit like a set up .... it is going to be tough to pass a referendum no matter what we do in order to get 60% approval. I appreciate what you are saying about a bigger picture kind of project on 64-1A. One way that can happen is if the council has a consensus that the library be the anchor of whatever that joint proposal is. We can probably come up with a design that works as an anchor that allows you to arrive at a consensus at some future point as to all the other uses that you want to make uses of over there and that allows us to move forward ..... Lehman/ ...whether you stay there or not you have to do the new roof. Norton/ That would be an investment that is not lost. Thornberry/ Where is this 8100 square feet? / The second floor is not finished off ..... Thornberry/ If that were finished off, what percentage of that space would be for offices and staff and stuff like that? .... I got five people working out of one desk and they are not bitching but that is what they have got. And for each staff member to have their own office and own desk I think is asking for a lot in a municipal building. Jesse Singerman/ We are not asking for all staff members to have their own desk. We are asking for adequate office space so that people could do their jobs. Thornberry/ What is adequate office space? Singerman/ It is in the design of the building that we presented to you. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 8 Thornberry/ It didn't show offices. Kubby/ Well some employees at the library need desks because- Thornberry/ I have some other things to say but I would rather not at this point .... I am not going to say anything against the library. I have been a proponent of the library since I was in grade school ..... We are a library family and have utilized it for years and years .... they are things that we need in a city library that we don't really have at this point .... I don't think you want my input and that is what I am feeling from the library board. I said why can't the library stamp a person's parking permit- that won't work. Why can't you stamp a bus pass. That won't work .... Singerman/ ...our response to your request. I think the things that you have talked about are really interesting and innovative... they have to go into our budget... I can assure you that the ideas that you have are certainly ones that we are interesting in pursuing. Access are the main issue that I got when I met with you and Dee and we have talked extensively about that .... vanderhoef/ Our concerns were for certain groups of people... elderly... looking at the fact that if 64-1A is sold and developed and we all know that in some point in time the old library lot is privately owned... leaves us with very limited parking .... elderly... small children and families.. thinking about .... trying to see how many more cars we could get on Linn Street and still be effective .... angle parking... to increase library parking space there. Swaim/ I just want to say... I like both of those ideas a lot. Singerman/ The answer to the issue of access is in the handout that you received tonight. Issue of parking .... complicated... parking adjacent to the library is in high demand .... We feel there is a lot of parking near the library ..... 1100 spaces within a block and a half... hard to return books... off site book return and this is something that we are interested in looking at. Thornberry/ ! had several ideas that were pretty well shot down. So I am just letting you do your thing. I would really rather finish off the 8100 square feet, utilize that, not all for office space .... Where else could a library be located other than 64-1A. I am not excited about putting a new library on 64-1A across the street from where it is now. Have you looked This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 9 at any other locations in town? Traw/ We are committed to the d.t. That was an early decision that we had made. Within the parameters of d.t, no, nothing has occurred to us that is available other than obviously the Lenoch and Cilek site .... Other than that, no. Thornberry/ It possibility could have been on corner of Dubuque and Burlington Street before that was purchased. Is that correct? That is an awful big building that they are putting up for apartments ..... you could have gone up five floors. Traw/ It is gone now. Thornberry/ You have been looking at this for three years and you have the blinders on ..... offer on Lenoch and Cilek building. Traw/ That offer is contingent though on a referendum being approved. I don't think we have gone ahead of our authority in that regard. Thornberry/ No but without even notifying the city council as to what you would like to do before making an offer- Kubby/ ...I knew about it .... people knew about it... We are always asking we need some specific costs about land acquisition. It puts them in a place that no matter what they do ..... Thornberry/ My thing, I guess, is this. Public access to a free library. That to me does not mean that I have to pay for parking. I want a free library for the citizens of Iowa City .... Second thing is adequate parking for adequate access to that library for everyone that needs it .... And serving the needs of the people of Iowa City ..... Percentage of college students that use that library as opposed to going to the University library. I have heard the University library is under-utilized. I don't know .... [Handouts] Thornberry/ What? Did we just get these? When you are handed a sheet like all of these papers... I can't read these unless you want to take a break. Nov/ ...My concern is the cost not only of acquiring property at Lenoch and Cilek building but demolition costs and landfill costs... terrific expense .... have to justify somehow that we Thls represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 10 don't want to use the 64-1A property .... public would say why is it more important to keep this parking lot and destroy this building... I would really like to see something on the ballot that I can defend ..... I can answer some of the concerns about underground development also. If 64-1A were to develop as CenterSpace, it would require digging underground .... seems to me that no matter where we put a new development in this pedestrian area, it is going to be a tough project in terms of construction costs, fencing... everything else. It is not going to be simple no matter where it is put... If we are going to connect CenterSpace or any meeting space to the Holiday Inn .... we are going to have to do it underground .... It will require going underground. If we wanted to connect to current library... bridge at second floor .... talking about a decent design.. do something interesting with it... It is going to be an expensive project. We need to say that this project is justified and I am having a little trouble saying this is absolutely justified on the current site of the current proposal because I hear other proposals that appear to me to be easier to explain and easier to justify .... I want to go on the record... we have said the library definitely needs more space .... Greenleaf/ I think on the part of the library board .... not wedded to one particular project. I think the board feels strongly that the library needs to be expanded and needs to be d.t stepped back... to get the council involved .... important thing that the library board needs from the council is a commitment to reach a decision that would meet the needs of a library in a timely fashion and a commitment to the process to make sure that it gets done .... We need feedback to know which way to proceed from here .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-4 SIDE 1 Greenleaf/ But we need some guidance. We could give you paper up to here .... Lehman/ .... you guys do a tremendous job... best library in the whole state .... Norton/ I want to add a couple of comments ..... I wasn't ready to say yes because of my concern that this project was so large and then the other looming projects ..... seemed to me that we need a little bigger vision than the library .... If we can figure the timing .... I understand Karen's concern that we may not get our ducks in a row ..... 64-1A ..... I can see virtues Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 11 of having the library over there because of access for parking and drop off ..... I would go back and support some kind of library expansion in the present plan .... if I had to do that ..... scale back costs ..... if I felt we had to go that way and that was the only way. I am hesitating now because I want to look at other options .... Nov/ .... if we have going to delay happened here. thrown a monkey wrench into the plans, we are everything, we admit it, this is just what has Thornberry/ I don't know if it was so much of a monkey wrench. When they came and said would you support it and we said no .... Nov/ ....We have said this is going to delay their expansion... Based on the desire to do it, what do you think is our best way to handle it? Mark Martin/ It would be nice if we could resolve that this evening ..... Issue is how do we get there together. Seem to me that we have two immediate things to deal with. One is how do you deal with immediate physical needs of the library building and how do you make the space available that at least coasts us through the planning period ..... Other thing that concerns me though is the planning process. I don't personally, as a citizen, view the council as a long range planning committee... I do think the library board would be willing to not only do its own piece but cooperate in a bigger vision if we could identify, through the council, the groups that you would like to have involved in that process. Obviously we need some decisions. Somebody is going to have to decide here if 64-1A is the place where you want to locate. We can't make that decision .... direction with who you would like to have involved with that planning process .... We are off and running. We would like to keep up that momentum... move ahead with this .... The idea of making this a broader project doesn't necessarily have to stop us dead in the water ..... Norton/ ... somebody should be able to look at that possibility .... done in relatively short order... Kubby/ ...collage .... Whatever happens, council needs to make a commitment... that we somehow change our dynamics so that we can look at this bigger vision .... make sure it happens in a timely manner .... that is what we can do .... I have suggested a 15% reduction in the cost. Dean has said get us down a couple of million... I would like to hear some more of that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 12 specific stuff. Nov/ Atkins/ Planning Director .... make sure that she is here .... The other day Dee came in .... thing I am hearing tonight is .... but I hear 15 different opinions of the project .... I was trying to put together in my own mind.. list of what there was consensus on if not flat out agreement. The only thing that I have heard is that generally... that an expanded library is something that we all generally support. Then the question has become one of location, size, underground, up above, over here, over there, all of which have merit. But it would seem to me that what has happened here is our planning process has failed us .... There has got to be a way that we can reach some kind of decision .... depending upon design .... 64-1A, my understanding that is to go back on the tax rolls. I have always understood that to be the issue. Now if the council is changing that attitude, that is okay. But I think it was understood... if you want to keep something on the tax rolls, do you want to build a brand new library? .... If that is the case, then I think you need to open the planning process up far more than you have and I think there are sites where we can put projects together. Kubby/ ...If we are going to open up the planning process, it is going to involve Karin and the department .... what are we going to put lower on the list? .... Atkins/ If we are going to plan a civic plaza, there are certain decisions you have got to make collectively. For example, will the library remain on the plaza? .... Kubby/ The library has always been clear about that? Atkins/ ... there are publicly owned lands that you can fashion a building into... If you want to put everything together, there are certain advantages .... If the catalyst is an expanded library, so be it .... There are other policies that clearly have to be decided .... Nov/ I was never considering taking 64-1A out of the tax rolls ..... I think the highest percentage of it will be taxable space .... Norton/ The present building might go back on the rolls. Nov/ I am not fond of building a whole new library .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 13 Arkins/ We have no agreement on anything. I think you have got to find a way to reach some basic agreements such as will it remain on the plaza? ..... If that is not critical to the success of the library, Dean's question about parking... build it next to the ramp .... Traw/ In terms of process, using city staff as the vehicle to answer a number of questions that the council obviously has and address the library's needs at the same time, I would reco~mend that maybe there be a 2-3 person representative from both the council and the board that deal with the city planners so that .... Kubby/ Atkins/ I have no trouble with that once you decide on the basic program definition because I agree with Karen that there are seven very diverse opinions and once we can agree on the definition of what we want to see done, the working group, I think you are going to see the willingness of our council members .... On a project this complex, you need to set aside a block of time, you need to find out what you can agree on, you need to add the d.t. agenda... Is the library critical to d.t.? Nov/ I hear four people saying that their ideas include keeping it on the city plaza. I think we have a majority. Thornberry/ Why is it absolutely necessary to keep it on the walking plaza? ..... Nov/ .... I am saying that of the people we have here, four of them have said they wanted it. Singerman/ I think what I heard Steve say is if there is a way we can make explicit the things on which we agree, perhaps then we can build on this to come to a project that you can support that we feel good about that we can sell to the public. I think that is what we are here tonight for is trying to come up with a process so that these two bodies can reach agreement .... Nov/ So what you are saying is we want another meeting? Traw/ I like Steve's idea... got to invest more time in that .... Nov/ If that is what everybody wants. Thisrepresents only ereasonablyaccuratotranscriptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 14 Atkins/ I am suggesting that you set aside at the very least a good evening, starting at 6:00 and be willing to work until 10:00. Have a facilitated meeting on what you can agree on and then you can argue about it .... generally it works... have a pretty good list... Kubby/ Atkins/ We are having difficulty organizing the d.t. strategy .... It does have a bearing on it. Nov/ We all have a copy of the library's mission, etc ..... If everybody would read it .... Lehman/ If we have a meeting... we have some concept .... multi-use building... library becomes one piece of the puzzle. Atkins/ That is just the kind of question that needs to be laid right in the middle. How many of you like a multi-use purpose? .... You have got to come up with a program definition. Just what do you want to do .... and library is causing this debate to occur .... Swaim/ Another problem.. certain restrictions... that keep us from thinking about things we might not always think about ..... Atkins/ You worked under self imposed restrictions .... Kubby/ Norton/ ..... I think we got to get serious here. Kubby/ I would suggest that evening from 6:00 to 10:00 can sometimes be a lot less productive .... weekend .... Nov/ Move onto other things .... Library board and city council each develop a list of possible dates and then we will exchange lists. Would that be the best way to do it? Kubby/ In the next two days maybe? .... to get the list ..... Nov/ Next week .... Martin/ One practical timing problem... even repair and interim work on library would take a referendum. Atkins/ Depends on size of the project... If that building needs This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 15 repair, it cannot fall into disrepair .... it has got to be fixed because the next user is going to have a good roof ~nyway .... don't let the building slip into disrepair, please .... I will work with Susan to put a financing package together for you on that ..... Nov/ Atkins/ You have, under the law, the ability to authorize $700,000 in debt, capital loan note .... reverse referendum obligation that you have to follow through .... That doesn't mean we have to do debt .... don't let building fall into disrepair. Traw/ That is certainly not our intention. Kubby/ Sounds like there is still a majority of council saying no way on November ballot. That we are going to open up the planning process, find a date where we are going to get together to really really focus on what we are going to agree on to try to move forward in a reasonable time frame. Traw/ The board will have a list of dates by Thursday and I would suggest that we are going to lo0k at within the next six weeks. Atkins/ ... do it right .... take the time. Nov/ I think meeting six weeks from now is realistic. Arkins/ September .... Nov/ September is the time because there are many people who are going to be out of town in August. / Are you talking about a meeting of both boards or a smaller group? Nov/ Talking about all of us and meeting for a long enough period of time to come up with a consensus. Thornberry/ With a facilitator. Norton/ Why is that deferred until September? Atkins/ Vacation... August is shot for council as far as getting everyone together. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 16 Nov/ Atkins/ At the very list, I would like to ask Karen and Susan to develop just kind of a list of issues. Just something that we can farm out to you ... think about. Kubby/ Good to have things council members have thrown out today as to what their needs are for this project. Get that on paper, too. Thornberry/ Attitude shown by council members .... voices of people in town .... a lot of people in town that have questions... Nov/ Adjourn this section, please. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. W8071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 17 Review Zoninq Matters 96-81 S1 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for August 6 on a resolution amending the Iowa City/Johnson County Fringe Area Policy Agreement and incorporating this amended agreement into the Iowa City Comprehensive Plan. Miklo/ Setting a p.h. on a resolution... Fringe Area Agreement... We will include the revised Fringe Area Agreement and supporting information in your next packet. b. Public hearing on a resolution approving the voluntary annexation of approximately 80 acres located southeast of Sycamore Street and north of the South Wastewater Treatment Facility. (ANN96-0001) Miklo/ Items b. & c. both concern 80 acre parcel, corner of Sycamore L ..... annex and to zone it ID-RS .... P/Z Commission unanimously recommended approval of this and staff recommends approval. Kubby/ Is it allowable to do any grading on that property with annexation and the zoning change to ID-RS? Miklo/ It depends to what extend. Once it is annexed it would have to comply with the city's grading and erosion control ordinance. The only development that is allowed is one house per five acres .... Nov/ And the rezoning from this is from County RS? Miklo/ Correct. c. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing the use regulations of approximately 80 acres located southeast of Sycamore Street and north of the South wastewater Treatment Facility. (REZ96-0012) d. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by approving a Sensitive Areas Development Plan and changing the use regulations from RS-12, High Density Single-Family Residential to OSA/RS-12, Sensitive Areas Overlay/High Density Single-Family Residential for a 2.29 acre property located at the intersection of Dubuque Street and Meadow Ridge Lane. (REZ96-0011) Miklo/ On the east side of Dubuque Street just north of Bjaysville Lane ..... This is an application for a four lot subdivision in a sensitive areas overlay rezoning. There are protected slopes Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthalowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18 on the property that are over 40% and there are also .... slopes over 25% and that is the reason for the sensitive areas overlay .... The proposal would put those environmental sensitive areas in a conservation easement... The developable part of the site would be near Dubuque Street. There are three lots proposed for three duplexes. There is an existing lot with an existing s.f. home. This was recommended unanimously by the P/Z Commission and staff. Nov/ Bob, do you know why they put all that extra space into lot 19 instead of giving lot 17 & 18 some more space? Miklo/ I do not know why they proposed to do that. Norton/ Miklo/ And future development would require a rezoning and re- subdivision and they would have to come to P/Z Commission and city council. Norton/ ...this is now classified RS-12... 14 dwelling units per acre. Miklo/ Theoretically. Norton/ And the proposal that we are seeing is for something like 3 1/2 dwelling units per acre. Miklo/ Right .... did discuss.. possibility of putting in a cul de sac and a series of townhouses .... looking at 10-12 units at that time .... He chose not to do that... primarily the cost of the cul de sac. Norton/ Miklo/ The difference would be the homes to the north are s.f. and this would be three duplexes which is in compliance with the existing ordinance. Kubby/ In staff report it says majority of trees on lot 19 may be saved. I don't really know what that means. Miklo/ Lot 19 is this fairly large lot (refers to map) .... majority of trees are back here and back here. The conservation easement calls for limited if any grading in this area. Thornberry/ There is only four lots on that whole thing? ..... Thisrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetransc~iption ofthe]owaCitycouncilmeetingofJulylS, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 19 Kubby/ I am just trying to clarify the sentence in here .... majority of trees may be saved. That is not a very definite sentence. Miklo/ There is no restriction that would require these to be saved by the Sensitive Areas Ordinance .... Kubby/ When you say there may be some grading... Miklo/ There would not be any grading on the protected slope. (Refers to map) .... Kubby/ And our timeframe is after 2000? Miklo/ Correct .... Norton/ That traffic study, is that going to be updated? Miklo/ The traffic engineer... the following meeting it should be available. Norton/... half million bucks for geometric improvement in order to put the lights in. Miklo/ we are not proposing to do that. Norton/ Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ How long does it take to get the- Miklo/ It is in process now and we should have it at your meeting August 6th. Vanderhoef/ e. Public hearing on an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article H, entitled "Industrial Zones," Section 1, entitled "General Industrial Zone." Miklo/ Amendment to the industrial zone to allow truck zones and that was accidently left off the description in the agenda .... Truck terminals are very small warehouses and most of the activity occurs on the trucks .... transfer to other trucks... provisional use. There would be three conditions that would be required- Excuse me, four .... licensed operating vehicles .... This represents on]yareasoeably accuretetranscriptionofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20 there is a 90 limit on the time that the vehicles can be stored on the site .... paved... requirement for screening from residential and also arterial streets. Nov/ I have a question about the 90 days... seems like a long time. Miklo/ The trucking companies that we spoke to in researching this ordinance indicated it would usually be 2- 3 weeks. We put in 90 days .... If it apparent that a vehicle is stored there for 90 days then that is an indication of a problem and some enforcement. Nov/ We might not never know. Miklo/ It would be on complaint basis .... Vanderhoef/ I am with Naomi. I would just as soon have a shorter period of time .... 45, even 60. Nov/ I think 90 days has gone beyond normal truck delivery times. Kubby/ Miklo/ Companies we spoke to said 2 weeks would be a long time. Kubby/ Then 60 would be an appropriate enforceable time. Thornberry/ ...Walmart... what was the length of time that a truck could be on- Franklin/ I think that was a zoning violation. There is a 30 day period that is given once the citation is sent. Norton/ Do we have a truck trailer storage up on North Dodge around Roberts Dairy? Miklo/ That is an accessory use to the Dairy operation .... that has been there. There is not a screening requirement. Franklin/ It is a commercial zone. You don't have to screen across from a commercial use. Kubby/ Two numbers... 45 and 60. Miklo/ Is there a consensus for 60? Nov/ I don't have any problems with either one ..... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting ofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21 Vanderhoef/ ...45. Kubby/ 45 .... You had said you were going to get us some information about things in the Zoning Ordinance about noise .... Mik10/ There are performance standards for noise for industrial uses and this would have to comply with that .... P/Z Commissioner raised that as a concern .... Kubby/ If I am standing across the street from it and I can hear stuff, that is a violation? Miklo/ There are certain levels of noise that are measured .... there is a certain level that is allowed. Kubby/ ... We need to make sure that our decibel meter is in working order and that we have inspectors who are trained to use it ..... Miklo/ Nov/ In general, we are not going to enforce it between industrial and commercial?... Lehman/ It is on a complaint basis. Miklo/ Kubby/ f. Public hearing on an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article K, entitled "Environmental Regulations," Section 1, entitled "Sensitive Areas Ordinance." Miklo/ There is a rather lengthy memo from the Sensitive Areas Committee ..... amendments. There are a few of them that I would like to highlight .... amendments that have the greatest affect .... Kubby/ Are you going to be working from the ordinance or from the memo? Miklo/ I am going to be working from the memo .... from the brief memo at the very beginning. One of the most significant changes is a change in critical Thisrepresents only oreasonablyaccu[atetranscriptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 22 slopes and when those will require or removing the requirement for a rezoning for those properties ..... What we are proposing and Sensitive Areas Committee has agreed with was to amend the ordinance to allow administrative staff review of those situations ..... woodlands if they are on a property that contains any other sensitive features, they have to go through the rezoning process. The amendment would remove that requirement unless the woodland was in association with a critical slope of stream corridor .... There would be fewer situations where a rezoning would be required but administrative staff review would be required. Kubby/ Are there any other categories that would trigger going through the rezoning process? Miklo/ Yes, wetlands- Kubby/ If it was a woodlands two acres in size or greater and it was located on sites containing critical slopes or stream corridors. You are saying they already have to go through the process. But are there other categories that would trigger it? .... Miklo/ Wetlands and protected... slopes would also require the rezoning process. Kubby/ How come we just don't say if it contains any other sensitive area that requires going through the rezoning process or to list them all? ..... Miklo/ I believe that we felt that was the clearest way of doing it. The other major change that I would like to point out is how protected slopes are regulated ..... What is proposed is if the activity is 50 feet or more away from the protected slope, it would no longer have to go through the rezoning process but would have to go through the site plan process .... Those are the most significant amendments... are several others .... Kubby/ To me there are a lot of changes .... go through area by area... which things are clarification issues... which things make a few more explicit protections .... and a few things I can't tell if they are softening other protections or softening the process for protection. That is going to help me analyze. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23 Miklo/ So you would like to go through the memo from the Sensitive Areas Committee point by point. Kubby/ If people have questions in the area of overlay rezoning .... maybe people don't want to do that. Norton/ .... seem to me appropriate .... It is pretty complicated .... Thornberry/ .... It would take a couple of hours to go through this. Kubby/ ...go over section by section. Nov/ I am not sure everybody else has questions .... Kubby/ I will just ask staff .... I think these are important things. Nov/ ...mention of a wetlands specialist. Is this clearly defined? .... Thornberry/ Wasn't that person that we hired or thought about hiring .... Miklo/ A wetlands specialist would be somebody in the private industry who would demonstrate to the city that they had expertise in wetlands ..... soil scientists... Lon Drake... Soil Conservation Service .... Nov/ Does anywhere in this ordinance exist a definition that says what a wetlands specialist is? Miklo/ There is in the definition section wetlands specialist is listed ..... Nov/ .... That is what I am looking for. Thank you. Thornberry/ Niklo/ g. Public hearing on an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article 0, entitled "Sign Regulations," to delete the specific regulation of "political signs," and to amend regulations applicable to all temporary signs, including political signs. Miklo/ An amendment to the sign regulations ..... As discussed in Thls represents only a reasonably accurate t~anscription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15. 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24 the memo from the City Attorney's office, a recent court case brings into question the way we currently regulate political signs and this amendment would bring our ordinance into compliance with the directions of the courts. Nov/ ...when I started counting days and I read somewhere in here that we- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-81 SIDE 2 Nov/ I am not sure that our total number of days allows enough. I think we need 75 instead of 60 ..... Woito/ The 45 days will run concurrently with our 60 days and it is my opinion that the 45 days in the state law is unconstitutional and the state legislature will probably change it. But it runs with concurrently with Iowa City's ordinance. It is not on top of. Nov/ When I counted 60 days, I said we can have a sign that is put up 30 days before a city election primary. Then we can leave it up for the city election .... it would have to come down 9 days after the general election... What would happen if somebody put up a sign 45 days before the primary because of the state law and that would put another 15 days onto the process and they would then have to take it down before out general election. Woito/ The primary and the general are two elections and you will get another bite of the apple in terms of the time period. It will start all over for the general. Nov/ Okay .... Woito/ It is per election. Kubby/ Just like the contributions. h. Public hearing on an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article E, entitled "Commercial and Business Zones," Section 1, entitled "Commercial Office Zone (CO-i)," to allow small-animal clinics in the CO-1 zone by special exception. Miklo/ Is a p.h. on an ordinance amending the Commercial and Business Section of the Zoning Ordinance...CO-! Zone to allow small animal clinics by special exception. P/Z Commission This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 25 recommended this unanimously and staff also recommended approval. This would require a special exception for a small animal clinic... number of conditions that must be met... Activity must be enclosed.. sound proof building.. 200 feet from a residential zone... overnight boarding would be limited to the patients being treated... this would not be a kennel where animals would be brought in .... Vanderhoef/ Where are kennels allowed and why are you excluding overnight boarding .... ? Miklo/ I believe kennels are allowed in the .... Scott Kugler/ CI-1 Zone. Miklo/ Scott did the research on this. Vanderhoef/ That puts it away from residential. Kugler/ Definition of small animal clinic specifically states that it does not include kennel .... Norton/ Vanderhoef/ Seems to me that this is have some space for boarding .... wouldn't make any difference .... a business ..... you should noise and so fourth, numbers Kubby/ I would like the number to be ten but let the clinic have the flexibility to decide how that space is used. Thornberry/ I have a little problem with ten... I think it is too few ..... Norton/ Thornberry/ Miklo/ The ordinance no longer has a time limit if they are being treated .... There is no limit. The actual draft before you does not have that number .... Kubby/ So you can board overnight as many animals ..... Council/ (All talking). Vanderhoef/ It is important to me to be sure that we are consistent This represents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthalowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 26 with the amount of square footage that is required per animal .... Miklo/ There are recommendations .... Lehman/ private veterinary guidelines or Vanderhoef/ Miklo/ Right now our definition for small animal clinics in other zones does not allow overnight stay...except for those being treated .... Shouldn't make it less restrictive .... Council/ Vanderhoef/ Miklo/ Norton/ Are the present ones now boarding as non-patients? Thornberry/ Some are and some aren't but they are not suppose to be. Franklin/ Is the distinction between small animal clinics and kennels .... C0-io.. small animal clinic as opposed to a kennel is because CO-1 often find near lower density residential areas... transition between s.f ..... If you are going to change small animal clinic to allow boarding, then basically what you are saying is there is no distinction between small animal clinics and kennels .... Kubby/ We shouldn't make it less restrictive than the more intense zone. Franklin/ Thornberry/ Say for example I take my dog to a veterinary and I am going on vacation at the same time .... how long can they treat the animal? Lehman/ Until somebody complains ..... I don't have a problem with the way it is written .... they complain and we enforce it... needs to be more restrictive. Thornberry/ I just think that shall not exceed ten is- Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting ofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27 Franklin/ That is gone .... Nov/ Read the ordinance .... Miklo/ ...later version is towards the front. Norton/ Nov/ Turn to the next page, page 2, top of the page .... Thornberry/ Miklo/ Is there a consensus to leave it as is? Kubby/ ..... majority. i. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by amending the Conditional Zoning Agreement for WestPort Plaza to eliminate the requirement for a "cohesive, integrated development," and to remove the requirement for the facades of the buildings to provide "horizontal continuity," for property located in the CC-2, Community Commercial zone at 855 Highway 1 West. (REZ96-0010) Miklo/ Continued p.h. on the CZA for Westport Plaza... couple of things I would like to point out... site plans and how they have evolved over the years. When originally approved by the city, the concept plan for Westport Plaza showed an L-shaped shopping center... new development would generally conform to this concept... (refers map) ..... unified or joint parking lot... Woito/ Is that the concept plan .... (refers to map)? Miklo/ ...this is a copy .... Vanderhoef/ The shops that are there clear at the bottom (refers to map), was that space taken over by Walmart when they expanded the size of their store. Miklo/ I believe so. Franklin/ When the concept plan was originally approved, there was a provision in the CZA .... that says that there can be variations in the dimension of the building and the precise footprint .... intent was to keep the cohesive integrated development, the L-shaped shopping center. When Walmart came in .... Walmart came into it sooner than Cub Foods did. When Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28 Walmart came in for a building permit, it came ... past me and I had to make the determination as to whether their plans complied with the CZA .... Walmart and for Cub Foods... Walmart wanted to get rid of the retail shops .... quite a bit of discussion about that .... What Cub Foods it was basically (refers to map) getting rid of this piece here. The judgement that I made at the time was that in both of those instances here (refers to map) that is was not violating the intent of the CZA which was to create an integrated cohesive shopping center in this L-shape because you still had the opportunity for this all to be built in. We did not know at that time about the restrictive covenants that Walmart had imposed for parking .... until Staple's application came in .... I felt that because there was enough controversy surrounding this whole issue, that this needed to go to the P/Z Commission, to the city council, to make the decision as to whether having that parking break in there was consistent with your feelings about what you wanted for this development ..... Norton/ In general, how binding is the concept plan? Franklin/ The concept plan, the term concept I think is key because it is a concept. It is not meant to say that when it is build it has to look exactly like this ..... Norton/ You can assure me that given the layout .... adequate parking entirely in front of these buildings. Franklin/ No. Some of the required parking is in the back but that is employee parking .... Norton/ What are the total of those behind shopping spaces? Miklo/ Somewhere between 75- Norton/ Make a difference down the road. Miklo/ It is approximately 75... Kubby/ In your memo you are saying that it could be interpreted, that having parking that breaks up this L, could be interpreted as living out the intent of the CZA? Will you explain that to me? Woito/ (Refers to map) .... There is a drive here ..... Franklin/ (Refers to map). The garden shop on the original plan is Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe Citycouncil meeting of July15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29 right here and then it says expansion #1... future expansion. Walmart indicated that there plans were to have a garden shop but they also planned to expand to their property line which was the original intent as well as here (refers to map). So even on our most current plan, it indicates that Walmart's intentions are to build out to that point .... They have a drive here (refers to map). Kubby/ .... How does Walmart's drive and us allowing parking there help us live out the intent of the CZA? Miklo/ I believe the drive is labeled temporary on the site plans. Norton/ The Walmart drive is temporary? Franklin/ That is what it is labeled as. Woito/ (Refers to map) .... Franklin/ It was never the intent of the city that there should be approval for a drive through there on any permanent basis. Woito/ Franklin/ ...The issue is whether the parking between the proposed Staples store and the Walmart property negates the intent of the CZA. Woito/ ...I agree, that is the issue. Kubby/ But I am asking you, how can you interpret allowing that parking lot there and that configuration to be living out the spirit of the CZA? .... Woito/ Based on what we saw two weeks ago .... if you were driving along Hwy 1 West, based on what we were shown ..... from a distance, this is not going to look all that different in terms of a completed shopping center. Kubby/ It is not just the vision from the highway. Some of it is the ability to physically get from one area to another .... This totally negates the ability to have some other kind of creative use of that space for smaller shops .... That parking lot does not allow that to happening a functional way at all and I don't think lives up to the spirit of the CZA and one computerized picture isn't going to convince me. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting ofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30 Woito/ (Refers to map) .... It is a temporary driveway now .... Kubby/ With that clarification, does it change your opinion at all about Walmart's additional private covenants making it impossible to live out the CZA? Woito/ No .... It is going to be smaller square footage. Miklo/ We did identify three options to frame the question .... One of them was for the council to interpret that this does comply with this concept and therefore is in the spirit of the original CZA. You may decide that that is not the case. Thornberry/ On the temporary road, whose property is that on? Miklo/ That is on Walmart's property. Vanderhoef/ ...Is there any drop off or pick up zone that comes out of that driveway to the garden center? Kubby/ ...That is Walmart's decision to design it that way which is not the intent of the original agreement .... Walmart is dictating to us how this agreement is being interpreted .... Vanderhoef/ ...Was there ever any parking plan by those shops there at the bottom here (refers to map)? .... Miklo/ The original plan did show some parking there .... Vanderhoef/ Miklo/ The original CZA does have some language that does provide some flexibility. There can be dimensional changes that the stores can be larger and smaller .... It does show that there was to be parking in that area. One of the other questions before you is do you feel that at this time it is appropriate to change the CZA to allow this which would remove the requirements that it be a contiguous shopping center in this L-shape/ Thornberry/ Was that an actual point... a contiguous building? Kubby/ That is the intent. Thornberry/ ...I don't think that contiguous building was mentioned. Thisrepresents only arsasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31 Norton/ No, they didn't use that. Kubby/ .°.horizontal integrity. Miklo/ Norton/ .... how much salable space would be lost by our proceeding to let Staples go ahead under the Walmart parking restrictions? ..... Nov/ ...it is not a matter of space. Norton/ It comes out losing some salable space. Miklo/ This square footage is roughly 28,000 square feet versus 24,000 square feet. So there is about a 4,000 square feet. Norton/ That you are giving away for the additional parking imposed by Walmart's restrictive covenant. Miklo/ Vanderhoef/ Staples has not asked for more space to build on, have they? Miklo/ No. Vanderhoef/ If they chose ... to expand on either of their outside wall, would that be possible? Miklo/ Not with the restrictive covenants .... Final option which would be to deny the amendment to the CZA or not interpret it that this complies which would put it back in Cub Foods and Walmart's court. It is their restrictive covenants that require this additional parking and prevent the linkage that was originally envisioned. Kubby/ How can we, as a council, how do we have impact on Walmart and Cub Foods to say let's find a way to let Staples to their thing but to live out an agreement that when you bought property you should have understood what it meant .... ? Nov/ There is a controversy here in terms of interpretation also because this says in the agreement that the picture is a concept and the words do not require an L-shape shopping center. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcript~o. ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of July 15,1996, WS071586 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32 Kubby/ Is that true, Karin? Nov/ The words do not say L-shape shopping center. Thornberry/ The contiguous part was not in there. Kubby/ But the intent of council at the time those words horizontal integrity were there, from my point of view .... Thornberry/ Nov/ It was into as cut and dry as it might have been. Kubby/ Linda, do we have legal grounds to say no and that our interpretation of the term horizontal integrity is different than the people at Staples and Cub Foods? Woito/ Yes, you have that option, yes, clearly. Vanderhoef/ Kubby/ ...How can we live out what the original intent of this agreement was and still allow that to happen .... ? We need to try to work with Walmart in terms of the original covenants. Norton/ Have we heard from Walmart? Woito/ No. Miklo/ We have, the CZA wasn't signed by all parties .... There are four parties involved: Cub Foods, Randali's International, Walmart, Red Lobster and the fourth outlot .... Brenton Bank... Nov/ We can choose to wait for those signatures of the amendment to the CZA .... Or we can close the hearing if we plan to say this isn't going to work and we are going to say no to the CZA amendment. Miklo/ Or your third option... you don't need to amend. Thornberry/ Kubby/ I would be very amenable to amending the CZA to be much more clear about what we mean. Thornberry/ That being a concept is not cut in stone .... Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 33 Lehman/ What was valid in '89 may not be quite as valid today. I think it is unrealistic to think that stores like Walmart and Cub Foods are going to draw pedestrian shoppers .... They are destination stores .... One of the concerns I heard from P/Z folks...sidewalk would be a hazard for people walking from Walmart to Cub Foods to Staples. I don't think that is going to happen. Nov/ People are going to walk .... Norton/ Why couldn't they walk around there .... there would be a certain kind of continuity there .... Thornberry/ If Staples did go in up there under this other plan and Walmart owns to the other side of that temporary street, there is not a whole lot there .... Norton/ Let's make the best out of a difficult situation and try to figure out a way to make the sidewalk go around there so at least the buildings are connected if somebody wants to walk .... Thornberry/ What do you want to do? Put bricks across the temporary street? Norton/ Some kind of a divider... make it safer. Woito/ Karin Franklin... couldn't you make some kind of a walkway between the two...some indication that it is a walkway. Miklo/ That was one of the issues that P/Z was dealing with and they had asked Staples to defer this to allow a solution of that sort and Staples chose not to. Franklin/ It sounds like there are four people who want to see this happen somehow is what I hear. Nov/ I can see four who want to see it happen .... Franklin/ I am hearing some interpretation that it conforms to the CZA as much as anything does and that you want to have some kind of pedestrian accommodation made there from three or two of you. Kubby/ If there are four people who want to do that, I would ask that the majority at least change the original CZA ..... Thisrepresents onlyereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34 Thornberry/ I am saying yes to do but I don't think it isn't out of the blue. I think it has already been changed. We might as well change it .... Kubby/ That would be you would be for deferral so we can the CZA .... Lehman/ I don't disagree with you, Karen. Make it clearer .... Kubby/ Then the majority should defer and change the CZA. Norton/ Is that the right mechanics to defer? Franklin/ Yes. I think you also want some time for Staples to work on making that connection better between Staples and Walmart. Norton/ Nov/ We need to address that gap and wait for the property owners to sign the amendments to the CZA if we agree that the amendments are valid. So we can continue the p.h .... Norton/ We should vote to amend the CZA? Nov/ If we are going to allow this change, it appears that it doesn't conform. If we want to make this happen it should require an amendment to the CZA. Franklin/ So continue it to August 6. We will talk to Staples and try to get signatures on the CZA. Kubby/ And pedestrian issues. Nov/ Thornberry/ Nov/ It may take a few phone calls from the right people to help move it along. Kubby/ Thornberry/ Norton/ Should we meet with P/Z because we are going against their recommendation? Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of July15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 35 Miklo/ We will ask them if they would like to meet and if they say yes, we will try to set something up. Woito/ Is there a representative from Shive Hattery here? Because they didn't understand before that you had to have the CZA signed by tonight. Miklo/ They understand by tomorrow night. Nov/ Woito/ They are missing four signatures. j. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by amending the Conditional Zoning Agreement for WestPort Plaza to eliminate the requirement for a "cohesive, integrated development," and to remove the requirement for the facades of the buildings to provide "horizontal continuity," for property located in the CC-2, Community Commercial zone at 855 Highway 1 West. (REZ96-0010) (First consideration) k. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by designating 36 properties as Iowa City historic landmarks. (First consideration) Miklo/ Items k. & 1. are the landmark designations and Doug Russell is here to address any questions you might have. Nov/ Please change the number on the address on item 1. to be 332 and not 832 .... everything is pretty clear. Doug Russell/ The council did ask us to send a further written notice to the property owners .o. We did so on July 8... additional letters received... We have recorded three property owners opposed to the designation of their property and 14 in favor .... that makes 20 who have made no comment .... Preucil School of Music came back and said they were in favor .... The additional opponents...Norman Thomas... Dwain and Kay Rosenberger .... Nov/ We have into received all of those. Russell/ ..... Thornberry/ I would like to see this be an opportunity for those who would like to do this .... I would like to have a city historic ordinance that people may apply to for certain Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 36 benefits .... but not require them to unless they ask to be on it .... Miklo/ The local commission has actually designated national districts without people applying for them. Thornberry/ ...people.. could apply to be on it... as opposed to requiring them to be on it. Norton/ A public virtue and a public good of getting these things on the list. Thornberry/ Nov/ I don't think there is any harm of being on it. Norton/ ...to preserve these kinds of structures. Thornberry/ We are starting a new ordinance... heavy handed pressure on people .... spot zoning... Kubby/ It is an overlay .... Norton/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-82 SIDE 1 Russell/ Thornberry/ Russell/ The Preservation Ordinance is not very long... it allows for landmarks to be nominated by the Preservation Commission or by the owner .... there is in fact a nomination form available from the Planning Department .... The Preservation Commission does have the authority under the ordinance to nominate properties without the owner's consent .... The ordinance is in place. What is in front of the council now is not the ordinance but rather these nominations are suitable for landmarks .... Thornberry/ If they don't want to be on it, leave them alone. Norton/ Kubby/ .... What happens on the exterior affects the integrity of neighborhoods .... Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of July 15,1996, WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37 Thornberry/ Lehman/ May I suggest one thing. I would a volunteer basis ..... take another or a year ..... like to see us try it on look at it in six months Thornberry/ Nov/ Let's move on... we are going to vote tomorrow .... First consideration tomorrow .... in two separate... property owner at 332 East Washington filed a formal protest and it requires a supermajority for that one property. 1. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by designating property located at 332 E. Washington Street as an Iowa City historic landmark. (First consideration) m. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by rezoning the following properties owned by The University of Iowa to P, Public: 1 E. Park Road (RNC-20), 234 N. Madison Street (RM-44), northwest corner of Dubuque and Church Streets (RM-44), 230 N. Clinton Street (PRM), 324 S. Madison Street (CB-2), 300 Myrtle Avenue (RS-5), 421 Melrose Avenue (RS-5), 315 Melrose Avenue (RS-8), 121 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), 127 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), 129 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), and 2222 Old Hwy. 218 S. (I-l). (First consideration) Miklo First consideration of rezoning 12 properties owned by the University to P, Public. n. Consider an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6, "Zoning," Article J, "Overlay Zones," by creating a new overlay zoning district entitled "Design Review Overlay Zone." (First consideration) Miklo/ Design Review which you have later on your agenda. o. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by conditionally rezoning a 2.32 acre tract from I-1, Industrial, to CI-1, Intensive Commercial, for property located east of Sunset Street on the south side of Highway 1. (REZ96-0006) (Second consideration) Miklo/ Rezoning property from I-1 to CI-1 on Sunset Street... second consideration. p. Consider a resolution approving a final plat of Saddlebrook, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 38 Part 1, Iowa City, Iowa. (SUB95-0028) Miklo/ Final Plat of Saddlebrook. q. Consider a resolution approving a final site plan for Saddlebrook, Part 1, Lot 4, a 222-1ot, 40 acre, manufactured housing park, located south of Highway 6 and the Bon Air Mobile Home Lodge. (SUB95-0029) Miklo/ The mobile hone park plan for this portion of Saddlebrook. The memo in your packet explains the agreement that we have reached with the developer. The developer will build the sidewalk on Heinz Road. The city would build a temporary sidewalk from Heinz Road to the bus stop in Bon Aire. The cost of that is approximately $20,000. That would be replaced by a permanent walk when we build a trail system along Hwy 6 which is quite sometime in the future .... It just goes to the entrance of Bon Aire. Vanderhoef/ Nov/ I am not understanding why a temporary walk would cost that much... Miklo/ There is a culvert in this area that would need to be built...drainage ditch .... Nov/ A little gravel and asphalt. Miklo/ Those estimates are for an asphalt walk. Vanderhoef/ Would that be built to standards for the trail? Miklo/ Would have to check with the Engineering Department .... Kubby/ So the culvert would be double duty .... Thornberry/ Miklo/ ...we would do this temporary area. Nov/ It would go to the bus stop. Miklo/ The next condition deals with Heinz Road and rather than escrow at this point, there are two points where the developer would have to escrow or build a road. One would be if they chose to do any further development...two... if the city built Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetranscrtptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil msetingofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 39 this road, they would have to escrow or build this road. The final item is the sidewalk..east side of Heinz Road and the south side of Saddlebrook... it would be done in phases .... (refers to map) .... Thornberry/ Miklo/ The reason we are asking for escrow funds is because once this is all developed, the city has no leverage and no way of collecting funds without- Thornberry/ .... require a contract with the city attorney .... Nov/ Miklo/ At this point, the applicant has agreed to the ...phased escrow. Council/ (All talking). Woito/ He agrees to the essence of this agreement. It needs some cleaning up. It will be cleaned up by tomorrow but they agreed to that. Nov/ And we will assume that he will sign it before we vote on the resolution. Woito/ Yes. Nov/ There was a comment last time that Part 1 includes lots 3 & 4. And we added it into the description. Karr/ Q. has been amended. Q. should read lots 3 & 4. Nov/ What about P? Does that read 3 & 4 also in the comment section? Miklo/ No because p. includes this larger area: 1, 2, 3, and 4. Nov/ In the comment section it says Saddlebrook, Part 1, lot 4 on p. and I am trying to clarify if q. is 3 & 4, why is p. something else? Miklo/ It should read lot 4 and part of lot 3. You are correct. Nov/ ...Okay. We are going to take a short break. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting ofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40 Economic Development Ad Hoc Committee Recommendation: List and Financial Eligibility Assistance Guidelines Nov/ Opportunity 96-82 Sl Bob Elliot/ I have no kennels and no restrictive covenants for you .... I will be brief .... I am representing the 12 member committee on Economic Development, the ad hoc committee .... You formed that with a two point charge that we come up with recommendations for you on the best most productive way for you to implement this policy which you had previously adopted. Responding to this was not a walk in the park for us... co~mmon goal was no problem. The difficulty was the way to achieve that goal... appreciate the fact that our committee was a very diverse committee... we have provided recommendations that are strong... comprehensive... Recommendations are two part: 0.. opportunity list... provides you with the kinds or types of technologies, the areas of business and industry, that we think are most appropriate and would be most productive for this city to pursue ..... These would appear to be our best shot .... The second is a set of guidelines that we think are very appropriate for the city to follow when receiving requests and making decisions on whether to and how much and what way to provide kinds of financial assistance for businesses, industries, technologies that would like to be in Iowa City .... guidelines and not policies that would be hard and fast. We wanted to leave room for discretion, flexibility and for judgement on your part .... We spent time talking about four of the key components which we think will be very very important for the economic development, economic growth in our community. The first is recruiting prospective firms and that is what gets most of the publicity... other three... retaining existing firms .... incubating emerging firms .... providing space .... Where is the space for them. The two point recommendations of what we feel are targeted industries... businesses .... that does not limit .... Then the listing of criteria by which you can evaluate firms, industries which are asking for financial assistance. We think those will be very helpful for you. Final closing... I would hope that you would have questions for members of our 12 member committee ..... I want to thank you... we feel that we have done an important and meaningful job for the City of Iowa City .... meeting 13 times... meaningful contribution to the City of Iowa City .... Vanderhoef/ Did you talk at all about where you might expect us to be looking for land and what characteristics you would like to see on that land? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 41 Elliot/ We pointed out one of the needs... We did not carry our discussions to the point... of recommending what type of space is available... there is a need for space meaning structures...land... It would have to do with the type of prospect that you have .... Kubby/ We could direct staff to look at some of the preferences .... what kind of space do we need for these kinds of businesses. Thornberry/ Good spots and good space may be integrated in that master plan for the airport, the north side of the airport .... And I understand that in that corner there by the bus barn... that area in there is some pretty prime land .... Elliot/ The good folks from ICAD would have some observations as to what area and what types of space are most often requested. Thornberry/ Nov/ Thank you .... great job here. We expect to hear from ICAD members. We expect to hear from the Chamber of Commerce .... We also said we would allow other communities to comment on the report from this committee. So Steve is going to send this to mayors of other cities, to the board of supervisors .... We will consider the comments at that time. Kubby/ I have some questions about the eligibility guidelines. In the first one about the private financial contribution .... words like quicker, greater, lower. I am not sure what we are comparing them against. I am looking on page 2 .... Norton/ Nov/ ..... subjective kind of evaluation as to how you define quicker or whatever. Kubby/ Elliot/ We did talk about that and I did think any of the committee members .... we discussed that and we felt that if in fact there were more than one entity that was being considered, the more quickly the payback would be the better off you are even if there is only one .... We also discussed this could be detrimental if you are considering something that was in an incubator .... We also did not want to do a disservice to an entrepreneurial activity by giving too much points to some firm that could require them to pay the taxes back in a Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowe City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 42 shorter period of time. So we were trying to provide you with guidelines that would at one point help you to nurture entrepreneurial activities while also pointing out in other instances if a firm could pay back more quickly, that would certainly be more favorable. Kubby/ Norton/ Application troubles me but I guess we will try that when we come to it. Kubby/ Under the quality of jobs to be created...interested in looking at .... I would look at turn over rates .... people may cycle through that position because of the nature of the job .... Elliot/ We talked about so many things when it comes to employment .... None of these guidelines, I think, can stand alone .... Franklin/ Full time, long term, non-seasonal positions... remember the discussion of the non-seasonal .... Kubby/ In terms of fringe benefits... I would love to see is daycare and travel allowance .... I would want more points for those .... Vicki Lensing/ The quality of the fringe benefits .... Norton/ When you are thinking about the list of industries and technologies that might be sought .... think of ones that are complimentary... that provide an input to the companies that are existing .... Elliot/ We looked at a number of things .... spirited discussions on... what is complimentary... end result is that we want businesses that provide good wages, benefits. That is the bottom line. Norton/ Elliot/ When it compliments something, that would be something to the city's benefit. Thornberry/ How many more Burger Kings do you want in town? Derek Maurer/ Dee, you will find that addressed on page 2 under This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996, WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 43 economic impact .... higher points to be awarded for businesses that build on resources, materials and work forces .... Norton/ Seem to me to be important because of the networking .... Maurer/ Kubby/ I know that you decided to have a wage by industry in terms of the average but you also decided to have a minimum... Is the minimum $9.30? Elliot/ We had discussion on that .... Our consensus was that it would be an average of the wage base. Kubby/ For each industry but with no minimum? ..... There is no floor. Elliot/ Franklin/ There is a floor from which we start. Kubby/ What is the number of that floor per hour, the wage per hour? Franklin/ You take the particular business or industry that we are talking about and that is where you start in terms of looking at that business or industry .... There is a provision under general requirements... consideration will be given to those companies who cannot meet this requirement... reason had to do with start up businesses .... one factor... Also if there was a business that met a lot of the other guidelines in terms of the characteristics that we found attractive, that they not be totally discounted .... As Bob stressed there is flexibility in here, they are guidelines .... so that the staff...as we work through it... you have the ability to identify what companies you want to give assistance to .... Kubby/ So the wages that are the average hourly for all the different industries, those are the minimums? Franklin/ Right. Kubb¥/ David Schoon/ There is also another consideration. 90% of the positions have to have a wage greater than the poverty level wages... Thisrepresents only ereasonably accurate transcription of theIowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 44 Kubby/ I want to make sure we are all thinking about what that term financial assistance means. That we are all talking about the same thing .... Does this mean a name on a CEBA grant? .... Nov/ There is also matching funding. Kubby/ Does that include a RISE application? Franklin/ That is up to the city council. The group was not making a determination about what financial assistance the city should give. But what the guidelines should be when financial assistance is given .... that included state moneys that come through the city... construction investment .... revolving loan fund. Lehman/ It is flexible enough that anything. Elliot/ What we looked... these recommendations .... provide you with a tool that you can use when you address these questions .... so that you will have something consistent and a structure in which you can work and which have continuity from one company to the next. Vicki Lensing/ ...this is going to be a case by case decision ..... I think it is real important to underscore that it is not hard and fast. Jeff Cox/ .... found that there is no free lunch in this .... There are limited resources. Economic development costs money, it is not free. One of the things that we found... consensus... want to use our limited resources to promote livable wages .... support industries that provide job where you can support dependents and health insurance .... support livable wages .... How to define that is very difficult .... Bob Sierk/ Your point of broadening the support is very well taken .... if we want to continue to enjoy the amenities of this community... we must have growth and we need a broader base of support .... We need to broaden that base .... Nov/ They did a really fine job. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work.Session Page 45 Desiqn Review Overlay Ordinance 96-82 S1 Nov/ Design Review Overlay Ordinance. Martin Haynes/ In your packet you received a memo from the DR Committee... asking that the ordinance that you will be considering tomorrow night be replaced with a re-written ordinance and this ordinance is actually a result of a request made by councilor Dee Norton back April 23 when we brought the initial ordinance to council for a vote and basically what councilor Norton had asked for is we go back and look at a few things. One, we look at potential development of guidelines for the districts that we are looking at prior to those districts actually be made into Design Overlay Districts. Second, investigate some alternatives... what can we do that might be different... Third was to actually consider some re- write to the ordinance. We looked at all three of those. The first one which dealt with the guidelines... need to be developed with particular districts because they would address the architectural specifics or features of that district .... architectural fabric or spirit... different guidelines... Within that process we would like to enlist participation of the owners of properties in those districts .... We do have guidelines we use right now for particular projects that fall within our jurisdiction. We have included those examples... get an idea of what generally these guidelines are talking about .... We did, to address the issue of alternatives, meet with members of DTA .... Chamber .... Northside Retail Association .... businesses from Near South Side... effort to see what might be some creative solutions and alternatives to the ordinance .... What would be the most benefit for the community .... There are minutes of that meeting which document what some of the comments were. Lastly, the revision to the initial ordinance .... We made a concerted effort to address the issues and concerns that we heard .... Those changes are highlighted and outlined in the information that we submitted with the memorandum. Specifically I think the main issue on the table is the question of mandatory compliance .... versus some notion of mandatory review-voluntary compliance .... The committee still feels very strongly that mandatory review- mandatory compliance type of process is necessary .... because we feel that a voluntary compliance type of process would not be effective ..... Basically an individual given the opportunity to do something or not to do something and there are not consequences, they will choose not to do it. In the context of the d.t. and Near South Side where the decisions of an individual to treat their building a certain way .... and not think about the neighbor, it has an impact not only to Thisrepresents onlyareasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 council Work Session Page 46 their neighbor... It is going to have economic impact... to adjacent neighbors, to the whole d.t .... The d.t. is a reflection of the entire community .... This is something that affects the whole community and for that reason for the city government to be involved in some way in how a person might develop their property. There is some logic to that .... There is indeed diversity... the notion about establishing guidelines... the DR Committee could take those standards, look at that and make judgement .... Complexion of DR Committee is such that there are design professionals on there .... There are people from the community that will be on that committee .... from the building industry that will be on that committee .... checks and balances .... We would like councilors to replace the original and vote on that one tomorrow. Nov/ I wasn't sure what was different in this ordinance- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-82 SIDE 2 Haynes/ In the memo we do address what those changes were .... also the term certificate of appropriateness has been eliminated... It is now called an application for design review .... Certificate of no material affect has also been eliminated. Vanderhoef/ .... terms you are putting out there, one of them sounds like an application .... Haynes/ What we are trying to do by eliminating the certificate of appropriateness and also eliminating the certificate of no material affect is to put them both under the auspices of a design review application. Vanderhoef/ Where and what is the notification .... ? Haynes/ An example .... at staff level it is identified there isn't any change to material affect to the facade. At staff level they can just give approval .... Vanderhoef/ I am concerned with what is an application and how you show completion .... The certificate of appropriateness sounded like a stamp of approval that came at the ending of the process. Haynes/ You will still get that. You will get design review approval on your application .... You are still ending up with an approval. You get a design review approval .... The process is one of conpromise and working together .... We encourage This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of tha iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 47 people to come early on .... Making it very speedy to go through this process. To be reviewed, you would make the submittal four days prior to a regularly scheduled meeting... We would be obligated to act upon that application in four days. Norton/ You are prepared to meet every month? Haynes/ Indeed we are. Kubby/ No committee in the city except staff meets weekly .... I know the purpose behind it. I am scared it is too often .... Haynes/ As a committee we talked about that.. We are very committed to making this happen. Kubby/ Haynes/ .o. address issue of timeliness. Nov/ I am interested in the fact that you are designating expertise. I approve of that. I wonder if you would also be interested in designating a representative from a design review district? .... Haynes/ Nov/ Someone who lives there or operates a business in that zone .... Haynes/ They would bring a valued perspective to the committee. Norton/ Have you considered any incentives? .... Haynes/ Embrace the idea .... I can suggest it. Nov/ From my point of view, I give you a building permit as an incentive .... Norton/ Seemed to be friendly to offer them a low interest loan .... We need to look at that possibility. Haynes/ We need a little direction from council if they are willing to invest public funds in that type of incentive ..... Nov/ There is an incentive built into the south of Burlington area that provides some kind of abatement of various sorts of you Thisrepresents only oreasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 48 comply with other things .... Norton/ What I am concerned with... persons says gee, I just can't handle that .... Nov/ They are not going to put a requirement like a lead balloon... there is going to be compromise. Haynes/ Thornberry/ ...When was design review originally an issue? Was that during urban renewal? Haynes/ It was back in 1976 .... mid '70s. Thornberry/ And for what duration was the design review committee set up to expire. Haynes/ Thornberry/ End of urban renewal in which we have once parcel left. Is that correct? ..... Kubby/ Just like the CZA for Westport .... Thornberry/ ... I don't think people always take the path of least resistance when it comes to doing something in a building for commercial purposes in d.t. Iowa City .... One building will affect the whole d.t. Haynes/ I think it will affect precedent... Thornberry/ ...I don't think that Haynes/ the whole d.t ..... sets a is necessarily true .... Thornberry/ The committee approved the location of the Holiday Inn... may not have been the most appropriate space for the Holiday Inn when we are trying to develop the southside ..... A committee approved that... committee's make mistakes .... Haynes/ .... I think at that time there wasn't that vision... Thornberry/ Committees can make mistakes .... The experience on the committee, we all have personal likes and dislikes .... I have got two more little things... I really have a problem with a This represents only a reasonably accurata transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 'i996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 49 volunteer committee policing commercial activity and that is what you would be doing .... My last suggestion is to disband Design Review .... I would like to see.. some relaxing or elimination of laws, rules and regulations .... Lehman/ I really would like to see voluntary compliance ..... I would like to see mandatory review .... I would be willing to revisit this again if we feel we don't get voluntary compliance .... Kubby/ Norton/ .... I think they have done a lot to improve the timing to make it work more smoothly .... Haynes/ Norton/ I am still trying to figure out which way to go. I want to hear your comments again about voluntary compliance ..... Haynes/ My feeling is people wouldn't .... Norton/ .... Haynes/ .... it is not equitable Norton/ .... Thornberry/ The design can be fine but if you don't have anything to do with colors and they have a black building with light trim .... Haynes/ Once something comes under auspices we can talk about color .... what is compatible .... of Design Review then appropriate, what is Norton/ Worth pointing out... collective well-being. I am still agonizing about is this the right way to start .... you guys can ring my bell all day tomorrow .... I find this control pretty minimal that way it is actually going to work out. Vanderhoef/ I really have more faith in human nature .... I really would choose to give people that opportunity .... Design Review Committee can make a mistake as much as I can make a mistake... I have a more optimistic outlook .... Let's give people an opportunity ... give them a chance to come and work with you .... I realize that you do a great job .... Then give Thisrepresent$on[y a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City councilmeeting of July 15.1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 50 them an opportunity to do it on a voluntary basis. Mandatory review and voluntary compliance. Kubby/ One of field .... are going end .... the strong points is that it is an even playing If people know that they need this approval, they to find a way to make things work on everybody's Vanderhoef/ But if you come down with a stick to begin with, there will never be the opportunity to show that this can work the other way .... Nov/ It will work very much the same as the Historic Preservation Ordinance .... I think it needs mandatory compliance... similar to Historic Preservation Ordinance .... Council/ (All talking). Nov/ Okay, one last comment. Haynes/ ...certain architectural consistency .... it hasn't just happened haphazardly .... There is a certain type of d.t. or look that they promote and it hasn't happened just willy hilly .... Thornberry/ Nov/ Vanderhoef/ I appreciate the changes in streamlining the process .... thank you. David Schoon/ Public comment on anything tomorrow night? Norton/ What do we have to do with the ordinance? .... Council/ (All talking). Nov/ We have an original ordinance that we deferred. So in order to vote on a revision, we need someone to say I want to amend this ordinance by deleting what we had before and substituting a new ordinance. Thornberry/ Can we revise the new ordinance? Nov/ Yes. This represents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1995 Council Work Session Page 51 Thornberry/ To mandatory-voluntary? Can we go that far? Just vote the sucker down. Just a thought. Nov/ You would need four votes just to introduce this ordinance because what we deferred was not this ordinance .... You have to get someone to vote on amending the ordinance .... Norton/ ...Has the public commented... on that ordinance? .... Woito/ Dee, you don't need & p.h. on this. The changes were non- substantive. But you can always accept public comment. Norton/ I would suggest that we probably should Nov/ I got four people who wish to accept public comments tomorrow night .... We will have public comments tomorrow night. Council/ (All talking). Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 52 Elks Golf Course: Golf Hole Relocation 96-82 S2 Nov/ Moving on folks. Franklin/ This is a drawing of the revised relocation of holes 3 & 4 and I have got a drawing that shows it on the top of the whole peninsula .... The important points are right here of course, hole 3 being on the upper terrace instead of down in the wetlands. (Refers to map) ..... Nov/ Is 4 in the wetlands? Franklin/ 4 is partially in the wetlands (refers to map) .... Ralph... Chuck... Steve has looked at it... is an improvement on what we had before because it is moving these out of the wetlands as much a possible... efforts further to not have a disruption of the wetlands at this 3.6 acres .... Kubby/ Will there be an abrupt drop off of green #4? Franklin/ This is fairly flat here... #2 is down the hill... Thornberry/ Franklin/ (Refers to map). Kubby/ ...what kind of drop is that right there. Franklin/ It is not. It is flat. Kubby/ Franklin/ (Refers to map). The hill is right in here and then up those ravines .... Norton/ Franklin/ Obviously there is going to be some disruption here of the trees here so that you can play through and for the golf cart path here to get from one to the other .... Do those necessarily need to be paved, Chuck? Chuck Mullen/ (Can't hear). Woito/ There has been some question raised about conflict of interest and Dee Vanderhoef may be wanting to participate in this discussion and ask questions .... Ernie Lehman has a clear conflict, he is a member. So he will not be able to vote on a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996, WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 53 lease .... Dee has an interest in a family gold membership and reviewing the memo that I did on Karen Kubby in February '95, the only interest that Dee Vanderhoef has in the country clubs by family relationship only. You don't buy the membership? Vanderhoef/ My husband buys the membership? Nov/ Vanderhoef/ I am not an Elk. All I am is a family member that is allowed to use- Woito/ And you, obviously, have no involvement with the board of trustees or board of directors? Vanderhoef/ No. Woito/ You have no management over the facility? So I am going to say that relationship alone, mainly spousal relationship, does not disqualify Dee Vanderhoef from participating or voting on this matter and I will do a written- Vanderhoef/ Thank you. Nov/ I still don't understand how a family membership works if a member of the family is not included in the membership. So please explain. Franklin/ You can't be a member of the Elks by just having family membership. Nov/ So what is the membership? Franklin/ Her husband is a member. She just gets to use the facilities. Nov/ Ernie is an Elks and therefore he is a different category of membership? Franklin/ Yes. Norton/ Franklin/ This is the drawing of the whole peninsula area to show you a little bit more the relationship between where these two golf holes are to the water project as well as to the upper terrace (refers to map)... minimally affects both the upper This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 54 terrace and the lower level. The red line is an outline of .... either purchase or lease area ..... Thornberry/ Franklin/ ... Chuck Mullen, would you like to address the organics issue? Chuck Mullen/ After our first discussion with you folks... address a couple of issues. One was the proximity of this use to planned alluvial wells .... Also the impact our construction .... how that would impact on the wetlands. We went back to the designer .... came back with this design .... We are convinced that we can at least build the two holes here. There is a note on the plan... this design would necessarily impact 3.65 acres of the wetlands .... ask him why we needed to impact that much wetlands .... Corps concurred... if we did not engage in substantial grading in the fairway area .... (refers to map) Area in this area is very very flat .... planted with grass... oats or something... If we can confine our grading area to here... (refers to map) .... We can limit our impact on the wetlands to less than an acre .... We do not have to engage in mitigation .... the designer is concerned .... heavy rains.. won't be able to play this hole... I believe this design can be built without impacting the wetlands to the extent that will require anything other than an application under the national permit. We are at least 800 feet away in this area up here .... Remainder of the area here (refers to map) .... I believe .... that is down stream from your well site .... water has got to be flowing north and east and wells are located south and west of there .... There are other issues involved. What we would like you folks to consider and to authorize is to authorize your staff to commence serious negotiations with the deal to allow us to acquire the rights that we need to build these to holes at the locations indicated. Those negotiations would include the relocation of this existing road in this area for us .... in addition to that you folks have expressed an interest in having an access here for bike trails and maintenance. That needs to be part of the negotiation package .... The city is going to be a developer or is going to be marketing this area to a developer .... amenity .... golf hole frontage .... I think there is a lot in this for everyone .... This ravine it might be possible to incorporate a pond area .... storm water retention .... What we are after today .... very much like to go ahead with staff... serious negotiations.. time is critical for us .... We need to be under construction as soon as we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 3996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 55 can.... Kubby/ Can you talk a little bit organics. more about the no chems or the Mu!len/ We can't- I can't stand here and tell you that you can operate or maintain a golf course without chemicals .... Construction cost estimate for these two holes is $250,000 .... You can't kill fungus with organics- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-83 SIDE 1 Mullen/ Norton/ Golf courses have gone to a lot of work on that matter .... What about green 3? What is that with respect to our water? .... (Refers to map). So it would be below. (Refers to map) .... What are your requirements for cart paths? .... Are you committed to continuous cart paths? Mullen/ Norton/ Mullen/ Norton/ Mullen/ We don't have continuous are primarily concrete .... (refers to map) .... Norton/ cart paths .... Our current paths we need one in this area here elderly members .... Mullen/ We have an awful lot of Vanderhoef/ .... a continuous cart path all the way on #4? .... Mullen/ There we would probably have to if we are going to stay away from any kind of grading .... (refers to map) .... Kubby/ Karin, what does having someone else have use and control of the land .... do to our flexibility and possibilities for development? .... How does ... negotiations on this decision affect or limit what we do? Franklin/ ...One is that 3 because it is right on the edge of that flat area takes a minimal amount out of that development land. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting ofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 56 Chuck refers to the advantage of being near a golf course and how that is very sellable .... I think it's advantage is the fact that it is open space .... One of the issues has to do with how much we then charge the Elks for that land .... for the rest of the land to recoup the $1.3 million that we spent on that upper terrace .... more valuable, upper terrace .... the thing that is going to add value to that land... a road that goes to it. Thornberry/ Franklin/ ...I am saying the greater value ... is with the road. Norton/ What happens on #8? .... Franklin/ Right now 8 is on the other side of what is shown as the existing roadway. This reflects 8 being moved because the road is going to come up there .... (refers to map). The road will come along this north property line and swing down to come in .... 8 is moved .... 8, 7, 3 and 4 are all in the bold line. Those are the ones that are being reconfigured as a consequence of this. Norton/ .... the old #7. Mullen/ Old #6 is projected to move. Old #7 needs the roadway moved... Franklin/ The course is redesigned as a consequence of this. Some of the holes are being relocated. Others are being redesigned and relocated. What we need from you tonight is this something that we can work with. That we can start negotiation with the Elks and that negotiation involves the conditions of use of this property, whether it is a lease or a sale, the use of chemicals, what chemicals are used. Has to do with the well access road, the relocation of Foster Road... A lot of factors .... Nov/ I have one more chemical question... I am not a golfer .... tell me, point on the map .... Mullen/ My suggestion, Naomi, the chemical application is an absolute necessity when you get to areas that you have to maintain such as the greens Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 57 Mullen/ Your maintenance practices will take care a lot of the weed .... Nov/ .... Show me on the map what you mean when you say only the greens will need the fungicide. Mullen/ (Refers to map). Kubby/ I want to go ahead with negotiations but there are a couple of things .... Elks pay at least $150,000 so we can repay HUD. But since it has moved from the lower lands to the upper lands, I think that amount should be more .... Norton/ I thought we were going to try a lease back .... Frank]in/ We are advocating... a lease that is on the advice of Ralph Russell from Howard R. Green as well as our own thoughts on it. When we lease the lower part, whatever we purchased with deferral money .... (refers to map). I believe we will need to pay back HUD the amount that we used to purchase that. We are going to talk to them about that .... The purpose that those funds were for was to take land out of development. If we have this condition such that no development will occur, there may be a possibility that we won't have to pay HUD back .... Requirements were that if it were for any private use, which the Elks Club is, that then it had to be- it could not be purchased with federal money. Now if we still own it... lease conditions on it, it may be that we will not need to pay HUD back .... If it is not acceptable, the expectation is... that they will pay for whatever it is that we need to pay HUD. Norton/ Franklin/ Including the well access road which will serve as a trail .... (Refers to map). This will be a well access road .... Nov/ There is a potential for a trail all the way around the edge? Franklin/ Yes. We are using... well access roads for any trail .... maintenance vehicles to get to the wells... They will be hard surfaced. When we get over to .... toward the dam, are we using something other than the well access road? Jeff Davidson/ The intention is there will be a short piece that the city... will add to get us up to the dam and provide the link across the dam ... with the reconstruction of the dam for the water plant project. What is left undetermined... from the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 58 dam, the rest of the way around to the water plant site, that is kind of undetermined at this point .... At some point we intend to do that. The county is reconstructing a path all the way from west overlook road down County Road W66 to Butler Bridge .... want to hook this up to Butler Bridge and have the whole thing done ..... (refers to map). And we have a number of options that we don't have to decide now .... easements... it is possible to get under the interstate .... by the river .... it is undetermined how we will do it at this point. Thornberry/ I think direction from the council should be go ahead and start negotiating with Elks Club and see what we come up with. Franklin/ This is beyond just talking .... Kubby/ This is like leading towards an agreement. I am hesitant. The thing I really want to emphasize, if this were a private party... negotiation, we would really have a lot of negotiating power .... We should exercise that. Thornberry/ we need it and they need it .... There is going to be some give and take... Kubby/ ... We have the right away .... Thornberry/ I am talking about the south part .... it is access to get the vehicles down to the well. Norton/ There are some virtues both ways .... Nov/ We have agreed to negotiate. Jeff Davidson, bike trails. Kubby/ This is a serious point to me ..... Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 59 On Street Bike Routes 96-83 S1 Jeff Davidson/ Certainly those of you on JCCOG and Naomi .... You have received some correspondence from JCCOG indicating that there has been an endorsement made by JCCOG Urbanized Area Policy Board .... to implement a system of bike routes... in this community... Iowa City, Coralville, Univ. Hts. and there is a small segment of University institutional roads. The four entities have been asked to go in and do this. What is proposed is a system of signage. It is intended to increase visibility of bicyclists on this network of streets. You have seen some examples of signs .... basically a share the road sign. It would not give bicyclists any authority that they do not have under existing state law. It would simply increase visibility .... John Yapp, new pedestrian bicycle coordinator at JCCOG, has sent correspondence to Iowa City and Coralville and Univ. Hts saying this is the endorsement, let us know if you need any help, we would like you to do this. We haven't heard officially from anyone other than the University of Iowa... tentatively said yeah .... University has given at least an unofficial endorsement of doing this .... Karin... asked us to be on our agenda Wednesday so we can ask Coralville and University Hts. what they are going to do .... five of you had voted to endorse the concept at JCCOG, it was his assumption that we would go ahead and start implementing this .... Kubb¥/ Davidson/ ... I do have examples of the three signs that are under consideration. The color is fairly well set... manual... informational sign you use black lettering on a yellow background .... Thornberry/ I am just going to give bike riders a little shock. If they can't see a red and white stop sign ..... What gripes me is they don't even slow down sometimes for stop signs .... Bike riders have a tendency to look and go .... Nov/ I like this one (refers to sign) .... Davidson/ .... a lot going on with it .... The simpler you can make the sign, you are driving by remember .... have our traffic engineer at the City of Iowa City give you at least a recommendation .... Other communities are sort of waiting for Iowa City to take the lead on it. Vanderhoef/ Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 60 Davidson/ Everybody likes that one, all right. (Refers to sign) .... On Wednesday, can we represent this (#3) as being the choice of Iowa City? .... Council/ (All talking). Davidson/ Shall we go ahead and start the process? Thornberry/ We like the concept but some of the streets we might have questions about. Norton/ Davidson/ What I have passed out is the system of streets that is proposed... though that went into this .... There were some concerns .... with some of those streets being not the most hospitable places to ride a bike ..... 12th Avenue in Coralville and North Dodge Street in Iowa City are the two that come to my mind. Those are both slated to be reconstructed at some point in the relatively near future by each community. We would hope to improve conditions for bicyclists on those two streets at that time .... Our street standards would call for it. Thornberry/ When you get three riding across, side by side down Dodge Street or up- Norton/ Davidson/ I believe the state law says you are suppose to stay as far to the right as practical .... You are entitled to a full lane of use. Kubby/ I think they do that for protection. Thornberry/ I think they do that to be assholes. Nov/ We really don't need to talk that way. Thornberry/ Well, they are. Especially when they yell at me. Norton/ The people who ride a lot have thought about this a lot .... Nov/ Okay... Davidson/ We will proceed then? This represents only a reasonebly accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Nov/ We will proceed. Davidson/ Okay, thank you. Nov/ Thank you. Page 61 ThJsrepresentso~tly areasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 62 Council Aqenda/Time 96-83 S1 1. Norton/ I think we need to do something for the staff.. developing some kind of action regarding south river corridor project .... some kind of guidance from us .... whole issue of sewer and fringe... include the airport, sewer plant, annexation .... Atkins/ I think we need a general strategy but I can tell you right now, Bob Wolf is now represented by Bob Downer. Bob Downer has contacted me. Is there anyway that the city will do certain things and I have agreed to talk to him about the project .... All I can do right now .... Norton/ ..... we got to grab that pretty fast. Arkins/ I tried to write the memo ..... list of issue ..... Council would certainly want to hear what Riverfront Natural Areds had to say as well as Parks and Rec... I have not heard anything back from him .... But it is his move... Norton/ I am just trying to get it somewhere on our personal agenda .... Norton/ Need to establish some kind of approach to d.t ..... vision of plan, includes library, CenterSpace, 64-1A .... signage... ped mall... I don't know how that should be organized .... Get a coherent plan together .... We need to respond to this .... Arkins/ I think the issue has gotten bigger .... Norton/ A general strategy for d.t .... Atkins/ I have asked the staff to put together a list for me of the issues, the players .... You have got to give us some idea on d.t. strategy .... I am going to prepare something for you .... Thornberry/ What was Monday Forum's next step? Arkins/ Joe met with them. We have identified locations. You are getting a summary memo in the next day or so .... Kubby/ Good topic for special meeting.. Atkins/ I agree with you... I will follow up with that. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthe[owe City council meetin9ofJuly 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 63 3. Kubby/ The amount of money for piece of land next to Shamrock Place. Is that fair market value? Atkins/ To my knowledge it is, Karen. Kubby/ Will you check on it? Atkins/ Sure. 4. Kubby/ (Agenda #2e(9). RESOLUTION APPROVING AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HAWKEYE AREA COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAM FOR IOWA EMERGENCY SHELTER GRANTS PROGR~FUNDING, AND AUTHORIZING THEMAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLEI~K TO ATTEST SAME.) There is an item on the Consent Calendar I would like to be removed for separate consideration on page for the Emergency Shelter Grants for HACAP because I am on the board. Nov/ So you will move tomorrow that we will consider it separately .... 5. Kubby/ (Agenda #2f(1)-Aziz Longou regarding Bushnell's Turtle liquor license.) Sometime I think we need to talk about the Bushnell's Turtle issue. Atkins/ Depends on what you want to do. Kubby/ I want to be consistent .... Atkins/ They have been given a year .... Marian knows it far better than I .... Karr/ They are all different circumstances. Council/ Thornberry/ I think some of the departments and the Department of Inspections is getting way way too picky .... Atkins/ No, Dean, it is the law ..... Thornberry/ ...everybody is breaking the law. Atkins/ It doesn't make it right. Thornberry/ Kubby/ ... what would you suggest .... At this point they have been This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 64 given a year to comply. Atkins/ We offered that and they rejected it. Kubby/ Sounds like a reasonable option .... Karr/ They are considering expansion .... one year would allow them if we can get that in writing. Kubby/ I would like to direct staff that you have got one year time frame in which to comply with the law. Atkins/ We need that from you. We have already offered them that. They have turned it down. Karr/ The issue here is the outdoor service only. The liquor license was approved already. The outdoor service does not comply. HIS has given them four options. The one option that they are suggesting that if they agree in writing to the one year extension that then they will sign the outdoor service area. But we have not gotten anything in writing from them agreeing to the one year. Kubby/ That is their problem .... Nov Karr/ We cannot turn down their liquor license .... It is not before you. Nov/ Karr/ When they renew their liquor license, they will be asked not to use their outdoor service area for serving alcoholic beverages until the matter is cleaned up, cleared up .... Nov/ You walk in and pick up your drink and you walk out and you sit down. Karr/ Lehman/ Karr/ It is a straight renewal .... Kubby/ Is there a way we can have Marian call .... encourage them to do the year thing or we are going to enforce? Thisrepresentsonlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meetingofJuly15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 65 Atkins/ The complainant wants an answer and they have a right to an answer. Nov/ I think the answer is they will not have liquor outdoors. 6. Kubby/ (Agenda #13- VEHICLE TOWING AND STORAGE SERVICES CONTRACT TO BIG 10 UNIVERSITY TOWING, INC.). I suggest this every time .... I think it is really unfair to all of our towing companies that one person gets the job for all the city's towing needs .... go to next person on the list .... spread it out .... Atkins/ Difficult to administer .... Kubby/ Lehman/ It would have to cost us more money .... Kubby/ Other communities do it .... Atkins/ Storage lot is a big investment .... Thornberry/ Council/ Atkins/ Our contract requires a certain response time .... Kubby/ Figure out how we do it differently .... suggest that maybe we have a 18 month contract .... before the three years is up... I will bring this up tomorrow night. ... $15 ... per call or what? .... first 30 minutes is Vanderhoef/ $15 .... Council/ Nov/ We will find out. t Nov/ There was a tiny article in the Press Citizen saying that Kirkwood College is donating a house to the city. We have not yet accepted this house... Lower Muscatine... they did not find a bidder to move the house... moving it may not be a possibility .... 8. Vanderhoef/ What happened to that lot- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of theIowa Citycouncil meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 66 Atkins/ Cottonwood, we are still working on that .... Nov/ We have a request for nominations from the Lt. Governor's Committee on Diversity for Prism Award. If we know of any organization, individual, government, educational... I will leave this with Heather Shank and nominations are due August Thisrepresents only arsesonably eccuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Appointments 96-83 Sl Design Review Committee - Daryl Woodson Page 67 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of July 15, 1996, WS071596 July 15, 1996 Council Work Session Page 68 Highway #965 96-83 Sl Atkins/ One quick item. Jeff is doing the work on #965, the amended thing and we had contacted Rusk Consultants to do the environmental work as we had done in the past and their expense is $4,000. We contacted Coralville .... we will go 50/50. He said no. Surprised me. Kubby/ Atkins/ We are going to call him back and tell him the deal is 50/50 or forget it. Can we say it is 50/50 or forget it? Council/ Yes. Atkins/ Okay, thank you. Adjourned: 11:30 PM Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of July 15,1996. WS071596