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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-06-01 Transcription June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 1 June I, 2004 Special Council Work Session 5:00 PM Council: Bailey, Champion, Elliott, Lehman, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn Staff: Atkins, Davidson, Dilkes, Fosse, Franklin, Helling, Karr, Knoche TAPES: 04-39, SIDE TWO; 04-41 SIDE ONE TAPE: 04-39, SIDE TWO PLANNING AND ZONING ITEMS Franklin! I'm ready, I think. Lehmani So are we, we think. a. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR JUNE 15 ON AN ORDINANCE REZONING APPROXIMA TEL Y 3.72 ACRES FROM COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL (CC-2) ZONE TO PUBLIC (P) ZONE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF MALL DRIVE. (REZ04-00010) Franklin! OK. First item is to consider setting a public hearing for June 15th on an ordinance rezoning 3.72 acres from CC-2 to Public. This is for the school district property on Mall Drive. b. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR JUNE 15 ON AN ORDINANCE REZONING 10 ACRES FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT MUL TIFAMIL Y IHISTORIC PRESERVATION OVERLAY (ID-RM/OHP) ZONE TO INTERIM DEVELOPMENT SINGLE FAMILY/HISTORIC PRESERVATION OVERLAY (ID-RS/OHP) ZONE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 2460 S. GILBERT STREET. Franklin! Item b is also setting a public hearing for June 15th on the rezoning of 10 acres from IDRM-OHP to IDRS-OHP. This is for the McCollister--are we OK there? Champion! Going to grab my knee. Atkins/ OK, Marian? Franklin! Mike? O'Donnelll It was self-defense. (Laughter) Vanderhoefl OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 2 Franklin! This is for the McCollister farmstead that's on the hill on Gilbert Street. You know where I'm talking about? OK. And we'll get into--it's a rather convoluted little story that we don't have to get into tonight unless you're just dying of curiosity. c. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR JUNE 15 ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ZONING CODE, SECTION 14-6J-2, TO ALLOW CONSIDERATION OF REDUCTION OF LOCAL PUBLIC STREETS IN A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH) ZONE. Franklin! Item c is also setting a public hearing for June 15th and that has to do with street widths and I'm going to talk about it a little bit with the next item. d. REZONING APPROXIMATELY 8.07 ACRES FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE- FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY-MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (OPDH-8) AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY OPDH PLAN FOR PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF WHISPERING MEADOWS AND WEST OF SADDLEBROOK. (REZ04-00008) 1) PUBLIC HEARING 2) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin! The next item is rezoning of approximately 8 acres from RS-8 to OPDH, and this is for a portion of the area that we've called Sycamore Farms or Saddlebrook over the years. The area shaded is obviously the place in question. And this is a property that has been zoned RS-8 since its annexation. The proposal is for a mixed development which includes a single-family, zero lot line, duplex flat and apartments. It also includes the open space which you see in the center ofthe project as an amenity for this development. There are variations in lot width and lot size to enable this development so consequently it is a planned development. The street width question or issue. There are three parts to this. I'll go with the easiest one first. And that's Whispering Meadow Drive. Whispering Meadow Drive is the north-south street that comes rromjust Whispering Meadows to the north. The street is already built at 31 feet in width and so we are suggesting and have asked the developer and they have agreed to continue that 31 foot width down to the next east-west intersecting street. Thank you, John. Then Pinto Lane is a public street which will change to a private street as it becomes part of the Paddock, which is the manufactured housing portion of Sadd1ebrook. In the portion where it is a private street, it goes from 28 feet to 24 feet, which will give a visual indication that you're going into another area and that's becoming the private street. Vanderhoef/ Karin? Franklin! Yes. Vanderhoeti' I have a question about that in particular because as I see this, this is the secondary access into the Paddock, correct? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 3 Franklin! For now. Yes. Vanderhoefi' And at a 24-foot width, if you have any parking on there then do we need the requirement of the fire department who says that they need at least 20 feet for emergency access? Franklin! The fire department has been with us through all ofthese discussions and has not raised that as an issue. Dilkes/ I think the (can't hear) say it's going to be posted as no parking. Franklin! As no parking? OK. So, then if it's posted as no parking, that shouldn't be an issue. Vanderhoef/ OK and then where does the other access that will be a wider street come in? Franklin! Well, this is the future parkway which is going to be McCollister Boulevard as it comes across, so it will be down here. And this is the development up here obviously. At the point at which that is built, that will be the rnain east-west connection there. Vanderhoef/ So, what's coming down fromm Franklin! From here? Vanderhoef/ Uh-huh. Franklin! That's Whispering Meadows Drive. Vanderhoef/ Uh-huh and then it has to go east. Franklin! No, that could just come straight down. This is Whispering Meadows Drive from where it is right now, corning straight down and intersecting with Pinto. At some point this area down here will develop but we don't know--that's this area right herenexactly how that's going to develop at this time. It's likely that this part will be a flip of this if this is successful in the marketplace. So Whispering Meadows Drive would come down here and could then continue straight or continue in some pattern down to that east-west arterial. Vanderhoef/ OK. They were talking about Blazing Starm Franklin! OK, Blazing Star is this drive right in here. And this is the one where we have talked about the reduction in the street width on, given the nature ofthe development that is here and the type of development that is happening. What's happened often in the past is we've made these private streets. But we have found that when you've got single family or close to single family development on those private streets, there's an expectation that those are going to be dealt with as public streets. And so we've been working through This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. June 1,2004 Special Council Work Session Page 4 this with Public Works and through the PDH process where we at times want to reduce those street widths but still make sure that it's adequate for emergency services and for the use of the area. Given the alleys in this area, the type of housing and the fact that we would have parking on only one side of this street, there is agreement amongst the staff that the 26 feet will work. That also is the state standard that is now being considered for standards across the state for different types of street. It's called SUDAS. I can't remember what that stands for, but it is something that the engineers have bought into. Vanderhoef/ Would that be alternate days so that we could clean them out, if we're responsible for plowing them? Franklin! Typically, we do. The calendar parking when we have one side, I don't know--we haven't addressed that, Dee, that I recall. Champion! We don't do that on Summit Street and that's certainly a major arterial. Vanderhoef/ But it's a lot wider. Lehman! But we do have--I think (can't hear)--- Franklin! I don't think Summit is. Champion! Oh, no, it's not. Bai1ey/ Well, what is Summit? Franklin! If it's, it may be 25, I don't know--28 or 25, but it's no bigger than 28. Do we have anybody here that knows? Davidson! I' d say 31. Franklin! It is? Vanderhoef/ Mm-hmm, it's wide. Franklin! Oh, I'm sorry. OK. Davidson! (Can't hear) Champion! Yeah, it does. Franklin! Right. Champion! But what I'm saying is we don't alternate those. Davidson! No, usually--- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 5 Franklin! But that's because it's wider. OK. O'Donnelll How wide is (can't hear) Elliott/ Thirty-one, I think he said. O'Donnell/ Thirty-one? Champion! I think that's a pain in the neck in the neighborhood. Franklin! OK. Vanderhoe£' What? Champion! Alternate parking. Franklin! At any rate, did that answer whatever question you had, Dee? It's about the calendar parking. Vanderhoe£' Mm-hmm. Franklin! I mean, Jeff is telling me back here that we use calendar parking where we have a problem with street storage which should not be an issue in this area, both because of the nature of the housing but also because ofthe ability to have a lot of space for street storage because you don't have driveways intersecting on this side. Vanderhoe£' And will the refuse be done by private contractor? Franklin! Not on the single-family and duplex. Vanderhoef/ But that's still off of the alley. Franklin! Type 3 is single-family. That's all of these in here. Type 2 is the duplex, those two, that's single-family here. So these are all single-family and duplex here. Vanderhoef/ And will that be picked up rrom the front on the back? Franklin! It could be either depending upon public works' final decision on it. Vanderhoef/ And how are the alleys, what's the standard they're using on that? Will it hold our big trucks? Franklin! The alleysnwe have an alley policy now in which the, I want to say the minimum width is 20 feet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. --.- June I, 2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 6 Vanderhoef/ I'm talking about concrete depth. Franklin! Twenty foot right-of-way and 16 OK, you think? OK. And we agree that we will take care of those alleys for the life of the paving. And the property owners through a Homeowners Association have to remove the snow. Vanderhoef/ OK, and the paving is street standard, not 7 inch--- Franklin! Yes, it is. Vanderhoef/ So it'll handle our big trucks? Franklin! Right. Vanderhoef/ OK. Elliott! Karin, you talked about public and private streets. Franklin! Right. Elliott! What's a private street? Franklin! A private street is one in which the Homeowners Association or the developer or the people who live there are responsible for taking care ofthat street. Elliott! Do they pay the total cost for putting it in? The developer does? Franklin! Any new one, yeah. Elliott! No, I mean the initial costs for putting--- Franklin! Yes. Elliott/ OK. And what's our experience with streets that have no parking on them. Franklin! You mean what kind of experience? Elliott! You're just talking about this street because of its width will have no parking on the streets. Franklin! No, and this one, Blazing Star Drive, would have parking on one side. Elliott! Oh, but earlier you talked about a street that would--- Franklin! On Pinto right here has am This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 7 Elliott! Yeah. Franklin! ...parking restriction. Elliott! Yes, what's our experience with that? Apparently no problems? Franklin! I would bet. I don't know, but I would bet that there are times when people do park and they have to be ticketed and it's probably by complaint basis. Elliott! I just, I guess I'd be awfully cautious about putting in a street and not having, not allowing parking on the street in rront of residences. Franklin! Can you speak to that, Jeff? Probably better than I. Vanderhoef/ There aren't any houses presently planned to face that street; they're facing the inner street at this point. What happens to the south we don't know. Davidson! Yeah, I think you're all aware that on a fairly regular basis we bring on-street parking either to restrict it or allow it, to you on the Consent Calendar after we've done a traffic study and you know we really think that's best way to consider on-street parking is on a case-by-case basis once the neighborhood's established, decide whether or not it's safe or not. You know, I live on a 25-foot-wide street that since my house was built in 1959 there's been parking allowed on both sides of that street and it works fine. And you would think to yourself, with 25-foot-wide street, it works fine because nobody parks on the street. Everybody has garages and driveways and there's no need to restrict parking on a street that doesn't have any parking on it. Now, if you start getting enough parking to where you're, you have an issue with the 20-foot-wide fire lane and some things like that, then you can go with the parking restriction where it's appropriate. Otherwise, why encumber the neighborhood, you know, with something that may not be necessary? So, we like the idea of having us do a traffic study and then present information to you on whether or not there's a safety problem on a case-by-case basis. Elliott! But on this one the street is being built so narrow that it appears essentially mandatory that there be no parking so that it will not come on a case-by-case basis. This is predetermined. Davidson! It is predetermined, Bob, but you know, after it is predetermined, when that neighborhood gets built, you know full well that if the people out there complain and that they want parking allowed, we'll do a study and leave it up to you to consider a change. E]]iott! Then, that gets to my question. Why are we going with such a narrow street? Other than cost saving. Franklin! The 24 feet is what continues from the paddock, that's what the private street standard in the paddock. And so we just have continued that for that part of the street where it's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June I, 2004. - -- --.--.- June 1, 2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 8 still in the paddock. Elliott! And it appears to be working well, huh? Franklin! It has, yeah. Now, I mean, we are talking about opening this area up, which could change that dynamic, certainly, as Jeff said. Elliott! It just seems to me that we're setting in concrete something which predetermines that parking would be very iffy situation and especially after hearing what Jeff said, is that a wise move? Franklin! Well, consider that over 50 percent ofthe streets in Iowa City are 25 feet wide. We're talking about a street here that will be 1 foot less wide than that. That when you have a car parked on that street, whether it's 24 feet wide or 25 feet wide, you're going to have a very similar dynamic in terms of the ability to use that street and have it function. Elliott/ I suspect I may be the only one on the Council that has a concern about that, but I think most streets in Iowa City are too narrow anyway. And I hate to see the street being built that is even narrower than the streets I feel are already too narrow. Champion! You should probably move to Salt Lake City. They have nice wide streets. Elliott/ But, so, Karin, just go on--- Bailey/ Karin, just to get a sense of this neighborhood, I'm looking at these types of housing, and most of them have garages. And it looks like two-car garages, so the need for street parking seems like it would be minimal at best for residents. It might just, I mean--what Jeff just said about his neighborhood, that seems to follow. I mean in my neighborhood many of us don't have garages, so naturally street parking is really important. Franklin! Yeah, every--I mean, even the single-family are all going to have two parking spaces on the site, at least two, in the garage and on the pad. As you get to some of the other units, they'll have more, up to four. Bailey/ So, it sounds like it may be a non-issue. Elliott/ If there are lots nearby where people can park. Franklin! When you consider where this street is, as Dee pointed out, there's nothing that on the north side ofthe street that is going to access the street directly. We don't know yet what's going to happen on the south side of the street west of this line. East of the line is a strip which is a walkway and trail. So there are some in this segment that we're talking about now, which is from this dark line and one lot deep. I think you can safely do this without anticipating problems. Vanderhoef/ Can you stipulate in the agreement, no curb cuts on the south side? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. - - ----, _..._-,~--_. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 9 Franklin! Right now, we are doing a subdivision that is kind of through the middle ofthis street. We can do it with the next one if it seems to be a problem. Do you see what I'm saying? Probably what's going to happen, Dee, is that see where this line is where I'm pointing to? Because that's the, this is the walkway over here. This is open space. Vanderhoe£' Mm-hmm. Franklin! That you're going to have a lot that's going to come to here. And that there'll be another street that comes down, Blazing Star Drive comes to the south such that you're going to have one lot depth here in which the narrow part ofthe lot would be facing this way. So, for that space in which you're going to have 24 feet of paving width, there's not going to be an access there either. Vanderhoef/ Well, that's what--ifwe assure that there won't be any curb cuts in that lot onto that narrow paving, it would make sense to me. Lehmani I live on a 25- foot street with curb cuts on both sides ofthe street; people park on that street on both sides of the street. Traffic goes in a rather safe rate as it does almost all over this town. I can't imagine why we're concerned about a curb cut on a street that's only a foot narrower than most of the streets in town. Vanderhoef/ Because I don't agree that Wylde Green is an easy street to navigate any more than Friendship is. Elliott! I think Wylde Green is a street that is far too narrow. It should have parking only on one side. I think the most dangerous streets you have are when traffic goes by parked cars, especially ifthere are young children. I am much more concerned about parked cars on a street than I am about the speed of the vehicles going down the street when they don't, when they aren't able to take in all the yards and all the people that go by there. But, Karin, I think, probably I'm in the minority here. I will talk to some of my Council persons and I think probably there's not going to be much support for my position. Franklin! OK. I'll let you guys hash that out. O'Donnell! OK. I certainly appreciate hearing it. Vanderhoef/ I do, too, considering I've been the only one for a long time. Franklin! And we'll get to talk about that a lot more next time at the June 15th meeting on the ordinance which will enable us to reduce street widths from 28 feet to 26 feet in the planned development process. Elliott/ Oh, that's the joy. Franklin! So, we'll be looking forward to all that. OK, these are just some houses that are part of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. ---- ---------. --- . .--.----.-.-. ._,..~..- ,...-..------.---..--"..---------- June 1, 2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 10 this development. This is a single-family, single-family--I'mjust going to flip through. Vanderhoef/ Karin? Franklin! Oh? Vanderhoef/ For those, just tell me, what's the setback on these that are all these little narrow lots and two stories? Franklin! Those will be a 20-foot setback. Vanderhoef/ No. That's exactly what we ran into down on Sand Prairie, when you push them that far forward, you don't have enough impermeable surface up there to put anything other than little ornamental trees. And there's nothing that softens the looks of a 20-story house when you only can put a little ornamental tree there. Franklin! A 20- foot setback is the standard in our Zoning Code right now for by right development. Vanderhoef/ And we chose to say on the narrow lots in Sand Prairie that we would be at 25-foot setback just for this reason. Lehmani No--- (Several talk) Champion! Because of the garages, Dee, it had nothing to do with the house. Vanderhoef/ It was both. Champion! That was because of the garages, not because ofthe house. Lehmani Right. Vanderhoef/ But the setback with the garage even then there isn't enough space on a 20 foot. Champion! I don't have any problems with it. Lehmani Well, that's not an issue. If the Code says 20 feet, the Code says 20 feet. Is that right? Franklin! That's what you're allowed by right, yes. Lehmani Right. Franklin! This is a planned development in which you can negotiate it but--- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. ~ -- .-._.~ n~··_·' --..-----......-----.-.---- June 1, 2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 11 Vanderhoef/ But that was negotiated for Sand Prairie. Champion! Because of the garages. Franklin! Sandhill was a totally different circumstance, I think, in which the 25- foot setback was agreed to by the Council as a way to address the issue of the garage setback and the tree planting issue, that those two things merged in that discussion. Wilburn! That's my recollection. Champion! Mine, too. Elliott! Well, I think we've found a few topics for future Council discussions. Franklin! I'm going to just flip through these building elevations quickly. And are we ready then to move onto e? Bai1ey/ Yes. Elliott! Yes. Lehman! Yes. e. REZONING APPROXIMATELY 35.05 ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM RESEARCH DEVELOPMENT PARK ZONE, RDP, TO OFFICE COMMERCIAL ZONE, CO-I, SUBJECT TO CONDITIONS, SUBJECT TO CONDITIONS, FOR PROPERTY ALONG THE EASTERN PORTION OF NORTH GATE DRIVE IN NORTHGATE CORPORATE PARK. (REZ04-00007) 1) PUBLIC HEARING (continued from 5/18 meeting) 2) CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (Deferred from 5/18 meeting) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin! OK. This is the Northgate Corporate Park rezoning rrom RDP to CO-1, and as you recall, it's a conditional zoning, the requirements of which are to have a minimum 1- acre lot size and continue the parkway, whoops, parkway-sidewalk system through the development. There's still one property owner who has not signed the conditional zoning agreement, has not returned calls from Southgate or from our office. And so what we're suggesting to move this along is that we take that piece of property out of the conditional zoning agreement. It is an already developed lot, and so the minimum lot size is already established. The parkway is already established. So, the conditions of the zoning are not really pertinent to that particular lot. Take that lot out ofthe conditional zoning agreement; however, it would still be zoned CO-1, but with no conditions placed upon it. Therefore, the rest of it can all proceed and--- Vanderhoef/ Which lot is it? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. .- - -.--.------ -_.----" -.--...-..-." ---- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 12 Davidson! Furthest to the left there, Karin. Franklin! Oh, where the Iowa Donorm Davidson! Yeah, right there. Franklin! Right there. Lehman! Can we make that change by amendment? Franklin! Yes, what I would like you to do is tonight during the fonna1 rneeting direct us to amend the conditional zoning agreement to delete Lot--do you have a number? Glenn Siders/ (Can't hear) Franklin! I'll have a number for you. Lehmani My question is can we make that as amendment, can we delete it, and vote on it? Dilkes/ No, because you're going to have to continue the public hearing so we can get the CZA amended and resigned. Lehmani OK. Dilkes/ You can't close the public hearing until the CZA is signed. Lehmani So we're going to continue the public hearing and ask for--- Franklin! Yes, but explicitly ask us to rewrite the conditional zoning amendment to eliminate that one lot. Lehman! Right. Elliott/ Karin, is there anything substantive that will be done or will not be done to that lot? Does this really--- Franklin! No, it has no impact. The use is allowed in RDP; it's allowed in CO-I. And so we really don't know why the reluctance to communicate. Elliott/ It's almost moot except for the technicality. Lehmani Right. Franklin! Right. Elliott/ OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. .- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 13 O'Donnell/ So, we're going to continue this to June 15th? Lehman! Right. O'Donnell/ Is that right? Franklin! Right. Lehmani And we'll also defer the ordinance. Franklin! Right. OK, thanks. f. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF SANDHILL ESTATES PART 2. (SUB04-00013) Franklin! And then the last item is the final plat of Sandhill Estates Part 2. This is for a loop street construction. It's at the southeast portion of Sandhill and connects to Southpoint Estates. My understanding is that this property will be sold to the developer of Southpoint who wants to continue the project that he started there and the legal papers and the construction plans have been approved. O'Donnell/ OK. Thank you. Lehman! Thank you. Vanderhoef/ The south edge of that is where the new McCollister comes across, is that right? Franklin! Not right on the south end of it. It's south of there, Dee. Vanderhoef/ So, further south? Franklin! Yeah, at least a couple of lot widths. AGENDA ITEMS Lehman! Okey-doke. Agenda items. Vanderhoef/ I havem 6. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE ACQUISITION OF PERMANENT AND TEMPORARY EASEMENTS FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE CLEAR CREEK TRAIL PROJECT, AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST DOCUMENTATION OF THE SAME. Franklin! Oh, I've got something to show you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. .- --_._."-_._._~_._-- --^--.--. ---~---_._-_.._-- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 14 Lehmani Please do. Franklin! This is the alignment for the Clear Creek Trail. The project that we're talking about-- Dee asked that I have a map ofthis availablenit's this connection right here, down to Melrose A venue, and it goes along Hawkeye Park Road. This is the University parking lot here and these are the Hawkeye Apartments, I think they're called? Lehmani OK. Franklin! And it will just connect that all down to Melrose Avenue. It's another missing link. Lehman! OK. Vanderhoefl Good. Thank you for bringing that. Franklin! You're welcome. Lehmani OK. Dee? Vanderhoef/ OK, sometime back JCCOG had a cell tower study completed with recommendations and so forth, and I would like to put it onto a work session to talk about it because I feel like there may be some possibilities to go forward with a 28E Agreement with the County to address our fringe area. Karr/ Dee, I'm sorry. Is this Agenda items or Council time? Lehmani We're doing Agenda items. Vanderhoef/ OK. Excuse me. Lehmani Are there anYm Elliott/ I had one question. Karin? Franklin! Yes. Elliott! Were you talking about the Clear Creek Bike Trail? Is that what--- Franklin! Yes. Elliott! I just made a note out here, and the University is cooperating with us on that. Franklin! Yes. Elliott! I really like that. I think that's, I like that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. '- ---_.._..~.- ~..._._--_..---- --.----..----------------. - .-- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 15 9. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE CALL TO ARTISTS FOR THE ART COMPONENT OF THE BENTON HILL PARK PROJECT. Elliott/ I had a question about $30,000 for a park sign. Franklin! That's--- Elliott! Item 9. Franklin! The Benton Hill Park project? Bailey/ For the art. Elliott! Doesn't the City have just regular park signs they put out for parks? Franklin! OK, part of the Benton Hill Park project was working with the neighborhood on a design for Benton Hill Park, and this was something that--it's been in the works for two to three years to try to get resolution of what the neighborhood wanted to see happen in that park--- Elliott/ Mm-hmm. Franklin! ...what could be done financially. The conclusion was a plan that includes a number of things that I assume that you've seen but I don't know when. At any rate, part of it was to have an entryway to this park at the corner of Miller and Benton that would be a substantial entryway that could, as part of it, show the name of the park. It also had on it that there would be some sort of ornamentation on this sign that would make it special or unusual on this entryway and in the illustration in the park planning, it was an arch and there was a big sun on the top or something. The Public Art Committee has been moving from having work done in the downtown to working with neighborhoods on neighborhood art. And so the Benton Hill Park project as well as the Public Art Committee's work with neighborhood art projects carne together and the decision was to have this part of the park project be the Benton-Miller Neighborhood's public art project. And so, some of the money is coming from the public art, which is already allocated, $20,000 from that; $10,000 from the Benton Hill Park project which is for a basic entry structure. Lehman! But this is more than a sign? Franklin! Oh, by far. O'Donnelll It's an entryway. Franklin! Yeah, it's a whole, I mean, it could conceivably be a whole arch or something that would define the entry there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. --....- --...-..-.---.-----------.,. .__._---~...._-_._._._~----- _.~---~... -~---~------- June 1,2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 16 Lehmani But the topography there is such that it's going to take a significant sort of entryway to make it really an easy park to get to, because that hill goes up so rapidly ITom Miller Street. Franklin! Well, what this is going to do is this is going to mark a trail that goes into the park. On the Call to Artists, there's a sketch of the park plan on one of those pages and the idea is that this is going to rnark the corner of Miller and Benton and it will tell you quite clearly that this is a park. Lehman! OK. Champion! And I think it's certainly good place to put some public art money. I think the neighborhood can really profit rrom it. Elliott! Well, I think if we had all the money that we needed in the City to do all the things that the City has to do and is expected to do, that would be fine. But we don't and spending $30,000 for this, put up the sign that costs 100 bucks. Bai1ey/ I think public art is part of what a City is expected to do. Elliott/ Not when we need firemen and policemen and we're cutting down the width of streets to save money. It doesn't make sense to me. Champion! That's not why we're cutting the size of the streets. Franklin! $50,000 was allocated in the budget that you adopted in March for the public art program. Obviously, if you want to rescind that, you can but--Ijust want to point that out. Elliott! Bob Elliott's on the minority on this, too, Karin. Lehman! Well, let me--Benton Hill Park is something that those people have been asking for, I think, for 20 years or more. Franklin! Yes. At least 20. Lehman! And they have been largely, I hate to use the term "ignored," but they really have been up until the last couple three years, and for us to put a park there, and put up a little wooden sign that says "Benton Hill Park" is really not going to be well accepted. Elliott! Then I presume we'll have a nice sign at Mercer Park. Champion! This is not new money. This money was allocated, $10,000 was allocated in the park project itself. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 17 Elliott/ There are a lot of parks that don't have beautiful decorative signs. Champion! And you know what, a lot of them don't need it. Elliott! None of them need it. That's only my opinion. Champion! We know. Lehmani Any other Agenda items? That is art or not. 3. f. (4) CORRESPONDENCE. KEENE SWETT: CITY-WIDE SIDEWALK TAX OR ASSESSMENT FOR SIDEWALK MAINTENANCE. Vanderhoef/ On the correspondence in the Consent Calendar, number 4 on the sidewalk. This person obviously feels very strongly about it that repairing the sidewalk when it doesn't go anywhere or isn't a continuous piece, I can understand the frustration there, and I don't know how we get around it. But we certainly have never forced the issue of putting complete sidewalks in there. Champion! That's a good question. O'Donnell/ Explain this. The sidewalk doesn't go anywhere--where does it go? Vanderhoef/ It goes into somebody's yard. They start and stop and there's a map in there that shows all the places that are missing sidewalks in that little area. I wasn't even sure whether Marietta was part ofIowa City or whether it was part ofU. Heights. Bailey/ I thought she was complaining that owners had to repair sidewalks when other people use them and not everybody in their neighborhood has sidewalks. Lehman! Right. Wilburn! That was the main--- Vanderhoef/ That's the point. Bailey/ OK. Vanderhoef/ It doesn't go anywhere because it's not a complete sidewalk system. Wilburn! That wasn't the point. That's not the point though. He didn't think it's, it's the fairness about who's paying for it was--- Vanderhoef/ Well, it was both, you know. IfI have one and I shovel it and nobody else even has to shovel it andm This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. June 1,2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 18 Bailey/ They may walk on it and not repair it--- Vanderhoef/ ... they walk on my sidewalk but I can't walk through their yard on a sidewalk. It's a catch 22, but maybe we need to have a little discussion about it someday. O'Donnell/ But if the sidewalk is there and needs repair, you're compelled to fix it. Bailey/ Right. Vanderhoef/ Well, that's the way our ordinances read right now. O'Donnell/ Yeah. Vanderhoef/ And so--- Elliott! Now, it does seem odd that people are constrained to repair and maintain sidewalks if they have sidewalks, but people who don't have sidewalks, present company accepted, don't have to put in sidewalks. Vanderhoef/ Mm-hmm. Elliott! And I understand the reality of the situation but there certainly is a fairness issue. Vanderhoef/ Mm-hmm. Well, when you look at his map, there's an awful lot of incomplete ones there. Bailey/ (can't hear) that neighborhood. Vanderhoef/ Yeah. So, maybe we can talk about it and have a staff update on something like that. 3. f. (7) CORRESPONDENCE. SIGNED PETITION: RESIDENTS OF REGENCY HEIGHTS Bailey/ I'm curious about item 7, correspondence, regarding the residents of Regency Heights about bus system and a stop sign at Scott and walks (can't hear) Franklin! I'm preparing a response to them. Bailey/ OK. Franklin! I'm in the midst of which I thought I'd probably have in your packet Thursday. Bailey/ Great, thanks. VanderhoeD That was one I wanted to look at. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. .- - - ~-'" .-.- -~"-------'---'------'" June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 19 3.f.(9) CORRESPONDENCE. ADAM VOGEL: STREET REPAIR Vanderhoet/ And the young man who wrote us number 9 about can't plow because of the material of the street and I'm not sure what that's all about, whether it's becausen- Bailey/ I didn't follow that. Vanderhoef/ ...whether, I suspect, it's because we've got some seams there that are raised and lowered, and they're the kind of thing that the plow catches on. Lehmani I'm sure we've plowed his street though. Atkins/ Oh, yeah. I've never had complaints. Vanderhoet/ Yeah, I think so, too. But maybe we ought to just check that street to see what the condition ofthat street is. Lehmani Probably similar to West Benton Street. Atkins/ Did you get that (can't hear), Rick? 3. f. (8) CORRESPONDENCE. JOHN T. NOLAN: DESTRUCTION OF TREES. Bailey/ And is item correspondence number 8, obstruction of trees, respond to any particularm Lehmani There was a memo in our packet two or three weeks ago, a copy of which I gave John rrom the City Forester, indicating that the only trees that are being removed are trees that are diseased--- Bailey/ Right. Lehmani ...who are damaged or who otherwise are--and John is a proponent of Mother Nature, and trees will fall when Mother Nature wants them to fall. If your car is in the way, so be it. If your house is in the way, so be it. And you can remove what is left of the tree after it falls, which is not the policy that we have adopted as a City. But he did get a copy of the letter and he acknowledged that copy. Dilkes/ He did. I think what he was wanting was there to be a hearing where the property owner could be present at the hearing when the forester decided, before the forester decided to remove the tree. That of course is not in the ordinance. We referred him to the Parks and Rec. Commission. Champion! Right. Dilkes/ I believe he appeared in front of them. They were not interested in making that recommendation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June I, 2004. .- --- - ...-.-...--..--- -.-.---.....----.....- -.-..----------.- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 20 Champion! But we don't remove trees on private property. Dilkes/ No, on the right-of-way. Champion! Right, only on the right-of-way. Bailey/ If they're diseased. Atkins/ Yeah. Lehman! Right. Champion! If they're diseased. O'Donnell/ And normally they are a problem, but a healthy tree can be growing up into the utility easement wires and so forth, so there are cases where you have to get into them then also. Champion! I think the, I have to compliment the City forester on letters he's sent to people around Summit and Court Street on why a particular tree was going to be--it was quite lengthy with an incredible explanation and why and actually the people in the neighborhood thought the letter really quite good, except for John, of course. 3. f. (14) CORRESPONDENCE. RYAN HOLL: NEW DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS IN IOWA. Vanderhoef/ And then number 14, this new insect that seems to be bothering the ash trees and so forth. Atkins/ Number 14? Vanderhoef/ I think it's 14. Lehmani Could we refer that to the City Forester? Vanderhoef/ Yeah, I was just thinking there might be something that we could condense down into the utility bill to alert people that there is something out there and if they have diseased ash trees, to call the forester or some such thing? Atkins/ I think we can do that. Lehmani Any other Agenda items? Street update. I'm sorry, did you have an agenda item? O'Donnell/ I did not, Ernie. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 21 STREET UPDATE Atkins/ Ron? Yeah, Ron's going to start. This is intended to give you, because of the size of the projects and some of the things have changed, just to give you an update of where we are, what things look like, etcetera. 1. DUBUOUE / FOSTER Knoche/ We're going to start off with the Foster Road-North Dubuque Street project. Originally we had planned on doing this one in July as far as the letting date. Due to some design issues, that letting date has slipped on us and we're looking now currently to an October letting date. The construction would then begin April of next year, and the construction would be complete August of next year. And I guess the question, why do we need to do it? Obviously, the intersection was pointed out at the Planning and Zoning Commission as being one of the high priority intersections in town for being reconstructed. We're trying to be proactive in this area with the proposed and current subdivisions that are proposed in the area. This intersection is becoming more of an issue for traffic. Currently it does meet the signal warrants out there, and of course, originally, the goal was to try to complete this project prior to Dodge Street starting and I'll talk about that in a minute. Vanderhoef/ Oh, you can't be two places at once. Knoche/ So what are we going to do here? We're adding left turn lanes on both sides of the intersection. We will be bringing the Iowa River Corridor Trail from where it ends at Taft Speedway up to the Foster Road intersection and then adding sidewalk across to the church driveway on Foster Road. We will make an assessed majority of it. We will also be improving some ofthe flooding that we do have in this area on Dubuque Street. We have found that with the intakes that are currently there, the sanitary sewer pipe that runs along here currently is in conflict with the outlet ofthat stonn sewer, so it has to go up over top of the sanitary sewer now before it goes to the river. So we'll actually be lowering the sanitary sewer at that location to allow for free flow to come out of there. So on the smaller stonns, we shouldn't have an issue with the flooding on the street like we have today. I guess the question obviously is do we still proceed with Dodge Street becoming a high priority. Dodge Street, the DOT is funding that project this next fiscal year. They want to let that in October and start construction next spring. I think the answer to that is yes, I think we still need to continue with the work that we've done on this project. The traffic volume isn't going to decrease in this corridor. It's only going to increase. Weare maintaining traffic during construction. We will not close this at all. There will be a bottleneck in this area. We'll divert traffic to, head-to-head traffic on the northbound lanes, do the grading work and then paving, and then divert the traffic back over and then work on the northbound lanes. And I think with the interest that we're going to have in Dodge Street, the proposed scheduling would have both of these bid in the same bid letting with the interest that we'll have in Dodge Street, I think we'll get a very good price on this project with the number of contractors we're going to have looking at both this project and the Dodge Street project. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. .- __..m.._._"_..n__._ --e····.'. ._,._.._-_.__..__.__.~--~ June 1,2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 22 Lehmani Does that road align with the--how does that align with the eventual connection to Prairie du Chien? Is that a straight shot? Not quite? Knoche/ Yeah. There will end up being a, this, the mapping that you see on here now is, the property lines that are shown on there, they're kind of out of date, so since the property lines that are shown on here, we have purchased right-of-way for the water main project that went through here. Lehmani Right. Knoche/ And then we also did buy the right-of-way for the road and so, it will pretty much line straight up and come out through. Lehmani All right. So what do you want rrom us? Knochel Just an update. Do you have any questions? Any other questions on this one? Elliott! And you said the two projects will not be done simultaneously. Lehmani They will be. Knochel They will be. Elliott! You're going to have bottlenecks on both entrances? Knochel Traffic will be maintained on both projects. Elliott/ But you know what's going to--there's just no way to do them one at a time, right? Champion! Well, we could. Knoche/ We could; if we would do that then we would propose that this one would be delayed almost two years before we would do this one. Elliott! I remember what happened. Dodge Street is already difficult in the morning and afternoon, and knowing that it's going to be much worse than it was when that street was closed with flood, the backups here are going to be virtually monumental. We're already backing up traffic onto the interstate, are we not? Knochel Not at this location. Vanderhoeti' Not at this one. Elliott! Dodge Street? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - - _____m._ June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 23 Knoche/ Dodge Streetnwell, this is Dubuque Street. Elliott! Dodge Street will be done at the same time. Knochel Correct. Elliott/ So, you're going to have twice, you're going to have half the capacity for traffic on both entrances to the city simultaneously. Knoche/ Dodge Street is currently only two lanes. Elliott! Yeah, but I mean, you say you're going to be doing them simultaneously so you're going to be interrupting traffic. Knoche/ Sure. It depends on how you want to look at it; it would be a third of the capacity. Lehman! Well, the Dodge Street project obviously that's a much longer project; but the folks coming in on Dodge Street will be able to use Scott Boulevard. Knoche/ Correct. Lehman! Even though I understand you will maintain one lane oftraffic, that will be alleviated somewhat by the ability to use Scott Boulevard at least during part of the construction. Knoche/ Correct. Lehmani Now, how long a project is this do we estimate--time? Knochel I would estimate if we start this in April, we'll be done by August. Lehmani Oh, really? Knoche/ Yeah. The Dubuque Street project we will. Dodge Street will be a little bit longer. And if you want me to go into Dodge Street, I can, I'll start on that. 2. NORTH DODGE STREET Lehman! We'd just as well because the two are interrelated. Knoche/ Sure. The DOT, I don't know if it's public yet as far as what their plan is, but they are going to fund Dodge Street completely in the FY'05 budget. Originally they had talked about trying to split things up, so this project will be completely funded. The schedule that they want to do is an October letting on this project and start April of next year. I would guess that this project will take two construction seasons to get completed. So, as you see it here, rrom Governor up to the Hy Vee Store would basically be one construction season to get done. They could still be doing work in the second phase and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. .- June 1, 2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 24 the third phase. These two probably will happen simultaneously, but we will require that they be done with this piece in one construction season. TAPE 04-41, SIDE ONE Knoche/ Governor to Hy Vee. Lehmani That will be done first, the first season? Knoche/ That will be done first. Lehmani Which rneans that the cars coming in off of the interstate can use Scott Boulevard and we have 100 percent of capacity. Knoche/ Correct. Lehmani Well, that dramatically reduces the issue on Dodge Street. And by the time that's done, Dubuque Street will be done. So that's a livable situation. Bailey/ Yeah. Vanderhoe11 Yeah. The timing of the phase. Knoche/ On Dodge Street, we'll be doing a three-lane cross section from Governor up to Scott Boulevard. It'll tie into the existing four-lane at Scott Boulevard. Then after Scott Boulevard north of the interstate, it will be a four-lane cross section with the rnedian in the middle. We will be adding an eight-foot sidewalk on the north and west side all the way out to, right in front of Minerva' s and the hotel. Currently, it'll be graded out to put a sidewalk in the rest of the way out, but this seemed like a good stopping point for right now just due to the fact that we originally we weren't going to grade any further out, and now that's changed a little bit, we're going to redesign or do some work on the interchange. Elliott! So there will be a walkway across the interstate? Knoche/ Not with this project. That would be, that would have to come in the future and more than likely it would happen at the same time the six laning ofInterstate 80 would happen. Bai1ey/ But we're preparing for a walkway and bikeway across the interstate. Knoche/ Correct. We'll have the grading in place. Bailey/ Great. Knoche/ Throughout the whole corridor we're installing a new water main all the way out to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. - - -.-" -. ..-.. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 25 replace the existing water main. The age of the water main is old, but also, we'll get the water main out from underneath the street. Sanitary sewer--we're going to put a new trunk line in from ACT Circle down to where the trunk line comes up by the Press- Citizen. And that's due to some capacity constraints that we have through the actual ACT campus where that existing sewer goes now. So that will help us out in the future as far as the development to the north up in the Northgate area. Vanderhoetì Tell me, the walkwaylbikeway--do we have separated grade with that? Knoche/ The eight-foot walk will be similar to what we have done on Scott Boulevard and what we have, what we are currently doing on Mormon Trek. Vanderhoef/ But going over the interstate? Knoche/ It would have to be a grade separated. It more than likely would look similar to what Rohret Road does over 218 with the separate bridges for the pedestrian and bikes. Vanderhoef/ And is that part of the DOT project? Knoche/ We would have to work with the DOT to get that included in their project. I don't think currently they are looking at that as part of the project but they just preliminarily started looking at the interstate widening. Vanderhoef/ Well, that's high on my priority. Knoche/ Sure. Lehmani That's a ways away though, isn't it, that six-lane? Knoche/ Well, looking at--yeah, go ahead, Jeff. Davidson! They're now saying '07 through 2010. Ron's absolutely right. There hasn't been much design work done on that and that pedestrian bridge is an element. We've already put the bug in their ear that we want to see that and they said they'll work with us, but it's not been determined. Elliott! Tell them we'll talk with them, Regenia, if they don't get it done. Lehmani Now, if! understand this correctly, the first phase of this project would be completed at about the same time as Dubuque Street would. Knoche/ Correct. Lehmani So that we really don't have nearly the conflict that it appears we do. Knoche/ That's my feeling. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. June 1,2004 Special Council Work Session Page 26 Lehmani I don't have any problem with it. Champion! I don't either. Vanderhoefi' That's good. Lehman! Go for it. Knoche/ Do you have any other questions on Dodge Street? Lehmani Get started. Elliott! Start digging. 3. MORMON TREK! MCCOLLISTER BLVD. Davidson! Ron, do you want to go right on? Ron's going to put up a map showing the what we have been calling the Mo=on Trek Extension but we're now going to start calling McCollister Boulevard. We had to come up with a name at some point between Scott Boulevard and here, so we have dete=ined that an appropriate name would be McCollister Boulevard because of the McCollister historic fa=stead there along Sand Road. The City Manager made a presentation to you about the timing of the construction in this corridor. The two things that were discussed specifically was the airport runway extension and then closure of the north-south runway. And then the potential for us to get an ea=ark rrom the federal government. It looks like there may be a pretty good chance of that for the section between Riverside Drive--I'm going to trip over this I'm sure before we're done here--between Riverside Drive and Gilbert Street that would enable us to not be impeded by the timing of the airport situation. You basically told us to get going and so we've done some preliminary work on the design for the section between Riverside Drive and Gilbert Street and we're here today to just kind of--oh, thank you, Eleanor--we're here today to kind of get your blessing on having our engineering fi= proceed with that design. We've obviously, can kind of separate this project into the bridge project and the roadway project on either side of the bridge. As we indicated in the memorandum to you, you know, we need to be thinking out 20,25, 30 years with respect to the road. Probably more like 60 to 75 years on the bridge. We're making a little bit longer te= decision on the bridge with respect to how long the components will last ofthose two. We have the JCCOG arterial street model which helps us with forecasts out about 20-25 years. Beyond then, you know, realistically, none of us know for sure. We feel fairly good about the projections out 20, 25 years. But beyond that we need to kind of be prepared for anything. What the forecast volumes are showing us is that we're going to be in the 9,000 to 10,000 vehicles per day range once we get out 20-25 years. You're not going to see that initially on this stretch because obviously this is a primarily undeveloped area. I can't do this left-handed very well. OK. And then of course out here, all the way out to Dale's head is also a developing area. And 20-25 years from now the 9,000 to 10,000 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - ".......-._^.._~_.- -,,-_...,..- .._.__.~- ....--...- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 27 vehicles per day forecast reflects those areas being built out. Maybe some question about why those volumes don't seem a little bit higher, this is going to be, you know, if you look at where the growth area boundary of the City is, this is going to be not an centrally located as the Highway 1-Highway 6 corridor is up here. And obviously the Highway 6-Highway 1 corridor is a very, very significant commercial corridor and that's where you really generate the traffic volumes. This is--although we are going to see some commercial and industrial development in this area--you're already starting to see the commercial development up here. This side especially will be principally residential and you just don't generate near the traffic that you do otherwise. So, with those volumes, what it looks like to us is that a two-lane street with very good access control, and very good access control simply means controlling where the driveways are along here; an example of that would be Scott Boulevard that we've just finished building. Or actually most all of Scott Boulevard north of Highway 6 has, you know, reasonably good access control; however, different from Scott Boulevard other than the portion that we've just built as we would, we would also try and figure out--and we think we can figure out--where the driveway locations will be through here and put turning lanes in. And you really gain a lot of capacity if you do that. Essentially if you can control access through here, a two-lane street with turn lanes gives you basically the same thing as a left-turn lane does, which is of course what this portion of the street is being designed for. So, essentially, it would be for all intents and purposes, continuing the design consistently over to Gilbert Street. For Gilbert Street, the portion that's being built here is through the Sandhill Subdivision and will eventually continue on will be a two-lane street with turn lanes. So we feel like good consistency there. Now, the bridge crossing is something that we gave a lot ofthought to and what we're recommending there is that you allow us to design the bridge structure such that it will accommodate a four-lane street. The piers would be sized for a four-lane street, and we'd just simply move everything out if we needed to add lanes. And, boy, in the future that will save us a lot of money because basically you'd have to build another bridge otherwise. And so we're kind of trying to, you know, allow ourselves to be prepared for anything in the future by doing that. Ron has indicated that the cost of doing that now is nominal compared to what we would be faced with in the future. A hundred-foot right- of-way so that we would have, hopefully, most of the property--you might need some construction easements and that--but basically you'd have the property for building a four-lane road in the future. So--- Champion! What is the lifespan of a bridge? Davidson! Well, the actual, you know, portion that you drive on, the deck and that will need to be repaired about the same as a street, right? You know, depending on your maintenance and that kind of thing. But the actual, the piers of the bridge can be 60, 75 years otherwise. So that's why we're trying to kind of prepare for any inevitability that we might have--- Vanderhoef/ That makes sense. Elliott! Jeff, can you review again for me, please, where this hooks up with the existing This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. .- ---------.--- " n_.____.___'" .-------,--.------.--..--- .---,,--.., June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 28 thoroughfares on the east and west side? For instance, west side this comes right offm Davidson! Yeah, Riverside Drive is here and the bowling alley is right in this area. Elliott! Mm-hmm. Davidson! So we'll have an intersection here that won't be signalized initially, but it will be set up for a signal. Elliott! And then that goes over to--- Davidson! This portion here, Bob? Elliott! Yeah. Davidson! OK. Dane Road is right there. Elliott! Mm-hmm. Davidson! OK, so the intersection there. And then we've laid out the access points. This is the Davis commercial subdivision here; the new Ford garage is up in the corner here. You know, we know that as this develops for the flat part down here I think will be principally industrial development. We will have some access points in this area and having the three-lane cross section allows us to put those wherever we determine that they are appropriate. So, there is also, Bob, the ability for the manufactured housing park in this area to have a street come up and intersect. We've indicated to the developer that that probably won't occur until they are annexed into the City. But in other words, I think we have good access control in this area. The University Mossman building is right here, and we'll certainly have access point, possibly on both sides. They've talked about having a parking area on this side. So we'll figure out where those access points go when we design the street. You then get into the Mesquakie Park area here. You know, certainly if that ever was reclaimed and developed into a park, you could have access to it. And we'll plan for that inevitability. But nothing immediately. The Thatcher mobile home park in this area, we feel will continue to have its access to old Riverside Drive here and not likely have an access directly to the arterial. The area with the cabins in this area will be considerab1y--our bridge will be considerably elevated so we don't think we will haven their access will continue to be out through the Napoleon Park area up here. And then we have the access points--this property is platted in here and we have access points determined, isn't that right, Ron? And then I can't remember just exactly what the lay of this land is but is there potential for access points on that side as well? Knoche/ It would mirror--the access points, the Sand G Materials would be opposite the little piece of property that's south of the Quonset at the Public Works site. Davidson! Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. ._. '- -....-------.------'--- - ~---_..-- - ._"_._._--~------'.--- -- June 1,2004 Special Council Work Session Page 29 Knoche/ So it'd be about 300 foot to the west of Gilbert Street. Davidson! Yeah, and it's because we feel like we have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen in this area that we feel like the two lanes plus turn lanes, which is a less expenslve--- Elliott! You anticipated, didn't you? Davidson! Yeah. I mean, that's a much cheaper option obviously than building a three-lane section completely through it. Now, you know, I certainly want to make the point if there's a majority of the Council that wants to proceed with the four-lane street through here, you're not harming anything by doing that. It's just, it's more expensive and we don't feel like right now and in the immediate future it's going to be needed. And our recommendation to you is to plan for that inevitability but not go to the expense to construct that right now. Elliott/ I think there's--I'm disappointed--but there's not support for that. I think the support is for what you have outlined on there. Davidson! Yeah, that's pretty much it with respect to our presentation unless you have--I guess we wouldn't mind seeing a nod of heads. Are there at least four of you that agree or disagree? Lehman! The life of a street is approximately 25 or 30 years. We don't anticipate the demand for more than two lanes to be therem Davidson! With turn lanes. Very irnportant. Lehmani Right. No, what I'm saying is that if we put in a four-lane street, we're going to replace it in 25 years and we will not have been at any time during that 25 years at the point where we needed the four lanes, so we will be actually replacing road that we never needed in the first place. Davidson! Yeah, and you know, just an example, I'll tell you. You know, this section of Gilbert Street up through here, the four-lane section, does not have the traffic volume right now to justify four lanes. Now, there's not turn lanes in that section--- Lehman! Right. Davidson! ...so you do kind of get de facto turn lanes a little. You tend to get rear-end collisions, people yielding and somebody smashing into the back one. But that's an example of a four-lane street where you don't actually need to have a four-lane street there. You know, it doesn't really hurt anything but it's unnecessary expense. Wilburn! About the Mesquakie landfill, are we anticipating any methane down there that would This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - -- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 30 need to be--- Davidson! You know, honestly, Ross, I don't have a clue. Wilburn! I don't know how long that one was in existence or if it was very large. I was curious. Davidson! Well, it certainly is a--you know, I really don't know. I couldn't tell you. Will there be some kind of subsurface investigation as we proceed, Ron? Knochel We'll have Terracon do some soil borings for us as we get into the design, and they'll also be doing an environmental assessment for this project also. So, they'll try to figure out where the extents of the fill actually is in the old landfill. Wilburn! Sure. Vanderhoef I I'm interested in near the bridge, any of that hundred-year flood plain area, to purchase as much as we could of that at this point of time because Napoleon Park and our river trail is just to the north of this whole project. And I want to be sure that we get area in there that's high enough up that we can continue that trail that won't get flooded out on us. Davidson! Yeah, if we do end up with the federal eannark which allows us to go ahead immediately with this, we will be subject to the Federal Property Acquisition and Relocation Guidelines, which Eleanor's staff are experts on because ofthe Transportation Center project we just finished. So we would be subject to those here. Vanderhoef/ Well, I think we need to be proactive on acquiring and looking at a total City plan, not just that road. Davidson! So are there--- Lehmani Are we OK with this, folks? Vanderhoeíi' Yes. Champion! Let's go for it. Davidson! Thank you. Lehman! Thank you, Jeff. O'Donnell/ Jeff, just one question. Did you say the estimated traffic count in 15 to 20 years is going to be 1O,000? Davidson! Around there, yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. ,.,- -------- -.-...._-..-... ~~__.m__.~__..·~__~___..'.·.M_ June 1, 2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 31 O'Donnelll OK. Lehman! Are you doing the--- Davidson! Are you going to hold me to that 20 years from now? O'Donnell/ Exactly. Vanderhoef/ We're going to hang around and get you if it isn't, huh? ENGINE BRAKING ORDINANCE Lehman! Jeff, are we, are you doing Jake brakes as well? Elliott! Engine brakes. Davidson! Engine brakes. Lehmani Engine brakes, I'm sorry. Davidson! That's me again. Lehman! All right. O'Donnell/ Jake braking. Davidson! There have been several of you and myself included that have been contacted by some ofthe folks who live out in the Scott Boulevard vicinity. I had a couple of people, you know, quite animated, call me and ask why we're not out there enforcing the engine braking ordinance. And it's because we don't have an engine braking ordinance. So, you did ask for some research to be done on the pros and cons of doing that, and you have a memorandum of the work that was completed by the JCCOG Transportation Planning Division, and what we've tried to do is outline for you some recommendations should there be a majority of you that would like to go ahead and have us prepare an ordinance. You saw the sample of the Pleasant Hill ordinance. I mean, it's pretty straightforward thing, if you want to proceed with it. We did contact six or seven cities, and incidentally, Rick said he was driving through Waterloo over the weekend and noticed they had an engine braking ordinance in effect sign up there, which we didn't even know about based on the work we did on the Internet, trying to find places that had them. But the people who we contacted, you know, pretty much indicated it was not a big deal. At least six of the seven cities did occasionally enforce it and it hadn't been contested when they did enforce it. They made it sound like they enforced it kind of sporadically when people started complaining about it, and they'd go out and enforce it. We also of course discussed the matter with Eleanor and with Police Captain Matt Johnson, and you have some recommendations from them. Eleanor thinks that there should be a maximum, or a fine value. identified and we did tell you This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - .---,..-....---.--.- ,._---"." -----.---'.-----------_. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 32 that there is a range of those. Matt also felt like that should be the case, establishing a fine value. Matt indicated also that, you know, it would be enforced sporadically sort of at your direction, and that a citation would be issued when a police officer, you know-- you basically have to have a police officer out there observe engine braking taking place, and then a citation would be issued. A citation doesn't get issued based on somebody making a complaint. Matt also felt like and our research on the Internet indicated it would be a good idea to allow in an emergency situation an engine brake to be use. And we feel that would be a reasonable thing to include in our ordinance. Eleanor, did you want to add anything? Any comments or questions or what do you want to do? Vanderhoef/ When you say emergency, what kind are we talking? Davidson! I assume it would be, you know, any time any of us have an emergency stopping situationna child darts out, animal in the roadm Vanderhoef/ Oh, that kind. Davidson! ...you know, another car, yeah, from a driveway. Something like that. Vanderhoef/ I was thinking weather or some such thing and I couldn't figure out what that--- Elliott/ Well, it could always be, I think, ifthe highway is slick, they would want to first gear down to slow up rather than apply the brakes. But I would be in favor of first, putting up a good sign and see if the sign will do it. Because I think Iowa City has so many ordinances already, just to develop another one. I'd like to try the sign first. Lehmani What would the sign say? Elliott/ Whatever the sign says after you have the ordinance, except that it's not the law, you know. Dilkes/ Please don't engine-brake? Elliott! Yeah. Lehmani Oh. Elliott! I mean, you're going to have a sign if you have the ordinance--- Vanderhoef/ Please don't doesn'tm Elliott/ Why don't you put up the sign first and see if it does it? Davidson! Eleanor, I guess I'd ask for you to--we typically don't put up a regulatory sign? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - -- .--.... -.. -., _... _._.....·~.._......-...~..___..._u......._._____. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 33 Di1kes/ You know, I don't know if we have the authority to put up a sign. I rnean, I'd, we'd have to check into whether we have the authority to do that. You know, I think you count on self-enforcement when there's impetus to do that and that is the law prohibits you from doing that. But we'd have to check into whether we have the authority to put up a sign. Davidson! My guess would be it would not be a, you know, as we all know from taking our driver's license exam, a sign with a white background is a regulatory sign and means that you can have a citation issued if you violate that sign. It might end up having, you know, yellow background signs or warning signs and you cannot get a citation rrom a yellow background sign. So, we would have to research that. Dilkes/ We would have to take a look at--- Davidson! I don't imagine you'd get a regulatory sign put up unless you adopt an ordinance. Dilkes/ No. Vanderhoef/ Do we have the authority to put one up on Highway 6? Davidson! Yes, we do, and by the way, that was a suggestion that Matt had is not to limit it to the Scott Boulevard area and have it effectivem Lehmani All over the city. Vanderhoef/ The call that I got was specifically for Highway 6. Davidson! And then what we would do is we would put, if you adopt the ordinance, put up regulatory signs at the entranceways, all the entranceways into the City, which you see in other cities that have engine braking ordinances. Elliott! We don't have the right to put up a sign on our own streets? Davidson! I doubt, Bob, that you have the right to put up a regulatory sign that implies a citation will be issued. Elliott! No, no, I just said put up the same kind of sign but make sure--you know, you have a sign that says "Welcome to our city" or "Please don't do this." Davidson! Yes, you definitely would bem Elliott/ I'm in favor of asking people before demanding people. Davidson! Yeah, you definitely could not do that in a state route because the state would require Council action to be taken whether that be adopting an ordinance or what you do on your Consent Calendar before they would allow a regulatory sign to be put up on any state route. But on a local route there might be some type of sign. I just don't think it This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 34 would probably be a regulatory sign. Champion! Well, all of our entrances are state highways, aren't way? Davidson! No, like Scott Boulevard or Hoover Highway is not a state highway. Elliott! You're talking about coming down the hill at Scott? Davidson! Well, you'd put, basically where the city limits start at Scott Boulevard and American Legion Road--those are both local routes. Elliott! Yeah. Davidson! Highway 6 is a state route highway; 1 is a state route; Dubuque Street is a local route so there could certainly be--- O'Donnell/ Have we had a lot of complaints about this? Bailey/ Yeah, I haven't heard from anybody about this. O'Donnell/ I haven't either. Bailey/ Ijust wanted to get a sense of where it is besides Highway 6. Davidson! I got three calls. Bailey/ You had three? OK. Lehman! I've had two or three. Champion! I've had one. Bailey/ I haven't. Davidson! I wouldn't doubt if your two or three might be the same as mine because I advised them that Council would have to adopt an ordinance. Lehmani Thanks a lot. Champion! My question is how many phone calls does it take to make an ordinance? (Can't hear) I mean, if! had three of my friends call the City Council people, we could ban parking on Sumrnit. We could force people to put artwork in their yards. I mean, it bothers me when we talk about ordinances after three phone calls or even ten phone calls. Then I think we need to have an ordinance. How many phone calls does it take for us to pass another ordinance? I mean, I do think about that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 35 Davidson! I'm sensing two no votes. (Laughter) Champion! Well, not that I'm against it, but I'm wondering. But that's my question. How many phone calls does it take to make an ordinance? O'Donnelll Well, and that was my question too because I've not heard one thing on this. Bailey/ I just wanted to get a--I wasn't asking the same question--- (Laughter) Bai1ey/ Ijust wanted to get a sense of how prevalent this problem or this issue is because obviously I haven't heard from anybody. But other people have. I mean--- Wilburn! I have to admit I haven't heardm Elliott/ Ijust don't see why we can't just put up a sign asking them to do this. Truck drivers have a tough life as it is without running into more ordinances. Wilburn! I only received a call chewing me out because we were picking on the truckers. But in terms of just a please don't do this, there are signs in some of the parks asking people not to smoke near the young athletes, and people do it anyway. Champion! And we have a nuclear-free zone sign. Wilburn! So, if you don't want folks to do it, you pass, you still regulate. O'Donnell/ (can't hear) Lehman! Let me ask, do we have an ordinance relative to noise or do we? Champion! Mm-hmm. Davidson! Yes. Lehmani Wouldn't almost every single one of these violations, couldn't they be cited under the noise ordinance? Davidson! Do you know how that's enforced? Wilburn! I thought it was relative to (can't hear) Dilkes/ The noise ordinance has a lot of enforcement difficulties. If you want to prohibit this kind of activity, you should pass a specific ordinance. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1,2004. June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 36 Lehmani But it is noise-related. Dilkes/ Yeah, but our noise ordinance is, I mean I haven't looked at it recently, but it's got a measurement requirement, a decibel requirement, I think it's a municipal infraction, not a traffic citation which is a much more difficult thing to deal with. So, I think, I mean if you're interested in addressing this activity, you need to do it specifically. Lehmani Well, you know, I got a call from a couple folks who had heard that we might be discussing this, and my understanding I think you alluded to this in your memo, Jake brakes have, pardon me, braking devices have been used since the '50s and when used with a proper installed exhaust system are not offensive. Which means that most of the time you could be traveling next to, in front of, or behind a truck using their engine to brake and you'd never know it. Davidson! No, it's typically more the residences in the area that hear it. Lehman! Well, but apparently with a good exhaust system, one that is appropriate for the truck, you aren't going to hear it when they use the engine to brake because it isn't--- Davidson! We have no control over that, of course. Lehman! Well, no, but what I'm saying is that an ordinance that prohibits engine braking is probably going to prohibit most of the braking that isn't offensive. Davidson! Right, and then it's a matter of do you enforce the braking that's not offensive or do you just enforcem Lehmani That isn't offensive, you won't even know they're doing it. Davidson! Right. Vanderhoef/ So there wouldn't be any enforcement on it. Davidson! And it wouldn't be enforced. Elliott/ I'm not in favor ofthe ordinance. Champion! I'm not either. Davidson! I guess what we're looking for is to kind of focus the discussion is--are there four of you that would like an ordinance prepared for your consideration? Remember, you're not adopting it tonight but do you want us to prepare something for your consideration even? O'Donnell/ I'm not interested until I hear some complaints on it and I haven't heard any. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June I, 2004. - -- -.- ---- ._---,---------------~--_..~-_.~-----"-~- June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 37 Lehman! I think this is one that should maybe go to the back burner. Don't take it off the stove. Davidson! Well, we won't do anything until you direct us to. Lehmani Is that what I sense from the Council? Champion! Well, and that's how I feel. Elliott! Yeah. Davidson! All right. Good, thanks. Champion! I'm not against the ordinance; I just wondered how many phone calls it takes to make an ordinance. Davidson! You know, if you start hearing from people again, let us know and we'll--- Lehman! Well, at least we have your memo and we do have some idea. All right. OK. Vanderhoef/ I think you'll be getting calls once this hits the paper that we didn't do anything. COUNCIL TIME Lehman! We're going to do a Council time really quick because we also have to do a luncheon here, so Dee has one Council time item and then I don't--we can save the rest of them until after the meeting if you want. Go ahead, Dee. Vanderhoef/ Yep. As I said before, it's the cell tower thing and I would like to investigate a 28E Agreement with the County for cell towers in our funge area. With our next, with the present annexation down by Dane Road, we inherited a cell tower, and I would like to work towards having the City be able to say, no you can't, without consulting us. Right now, the way it is in the funge area is that we are consulted and we can make a recommendation but it's not binding. And the only way to do a binding would be with a 28E. O'Donnell! So, you would like to move so that it's a mutual agreement. Vanderhoe£' Uh-huh. O'Donnell/ That's fine. Champion! Except for 28E Agreements haven't necessarily been binding anyway. Vanderhoef/ Yes, there is one instance. You are absolutely correct, Connie. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - .----....----...-....- . __________._m.__.___ __,___ June 1, 2004 Special Council Work Session Page 38 Lehmani Are there, is there interest in us at least exploring this? Champion! Well, I'm wondering if this is something we should be discussing at JCCOG? Bailey/ Oh, yeah. Vanderhoef/ Well, we have the memo fÌ'om JCCOG. Champion! I know, but I mean, should we be discussing this among all the entities? Lehman! Well, the Fringe Area agreement only applies to Iowa City. Champion! I understand that. Davidson! This is an issue, just for a little bit more information, that did come up specifically when we produced the report for JCCOG. We asked the County point-blank, are you interested in having joint review and approval like there are for subdivisions into that area over the whole cell tower issue. And they were not. Their staff at least was not willing to consider that, to basically take that authority away fÌ'om them. You know, you might want to just send a letter rrom the Mayor to the chair of the board asking, you know, that might be a good initial step. Vanderhoef/ Start. Davidson! We can certainly discuss it at JCCOG. The thing is you only have two of the supervisors. There's a majority of you there at that body, but not of the board. Karr/ You have your joint meeting coming up. Elliott/ Yes. Lehmani Yeah, but I think it's a really good idea for a letter from the Council to the Board of Supervisors asking--- Davidson! Are you interested? Lehman! ...that we may have an interest in doing that, asking them if they would be willing to discuss it with us. Davidson! Yeah. Lehman! Can we do that? Champion! Mm-hmm. Davidson! And then if there is, JCCOG can certainly coordinate it rrom that point. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. June 1,2004 Special Council Wark Session Page 39 Lehmani Right. Done. Vanderhoef/ Thank you. Lehmani Now, we're taking a break until--- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council special work session June 1, 2004. - .-..--- --_......~ -----,~. .-- -'-