HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-08-26 TranscriptionAugust 26, 1996 Council Work Session 7:00 PM
Council: Nov, Baker, Lehman, Norton,
Absent: Kubby.
Thornberry, Vanderhoef.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Schmadeke.
Tapes: 96-89, Side 2; 96-93, All; 96-94, all; 96-95, Side 1.
Review Zonin~ Matters 96-89 S2
a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for Septei~ber 10 on
an ordinance vacating St. John's Alley, located between St.
Clement's Street and St. Matthias' Alley, and St. Matthias' Alley,
north of North Dodge Street. (VAC94-0004)
Franklin/ Set a p.h. for September 10... vacating St. John's
alley .... This is the Robert's Dairy property and this
vacation is at the request of Robert's Dairy. We will be
looking at conveying these alleys to Robert's Dairy at least
partially in exchange for seven feet along Dodge Street for
the future improvements to Dodge Street .... They may be money
exchanged. We are having an appraisal done now .... to see how
equivalent or not they are in terms of value. This particular
action... vacation of those two alleys as public r.oow.
b. Public hearing on an ordinance vacating a portion of Lee Street,
an undeveloped right-of-way located between River Street and Otto
Street. (VAC96-0001)
Franklin/ P.h .... vacating a portion of Lee Street .... P/Z
Commission as well as staff has recommended approval of this.
This is for a property owner who abuts the Lee Street
r.o.w .... 50 foot r.o.w .... I have an overhead of where it
Nov/ Can you tell us in what direction those easements are running?
Franklin/ North- south.
Nov/ ...I thought all easement were running parallel to River
Street.
Franklin/ I think there is a sewer easement... I will have to check
on that, Naomi.
Norton/
Nov/ There is a storm sewer that runs parallel to River Street.
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Franklin/ This is sanitary and electrical .....
Nov/ ...Electrical wires were on posts...
Franklin/ Do you want me to check on exactly where the easements
are?
Nov/ Well, if this person claims that nothing can be built, I would
like to check on it ....
Franklin/ ...it is not a buildable lot .... At this point... we are
talking about vacating it as ~ublic r.o.w .... It would be
owned by this private party with the reservation of these
easements.
Norton/ .... do the neighbors get to bid on it? What is the process
here?
Franklin/ ...If there are property owners on both sides who are
interested, we offer it to the owners on both sides. In this
case, it is the school district on the west side and they do
not have an interest in acquiring any part of it and the
Barkans who leave on the east side wish to acquire the entire
r.o.w.
Norton/ ...It runs through to Otto in principle, doesn't it.
Franklin/ In principle, yes... steep... It won't be improved ....
That has not come up in either the Board of Adjustment
actions .... or in the deliberations before P/Z Commission.
Norton/ How do you come to a sell price or quote?
Woito/ You can name any price you want.
Franklin/ Someone will make an offer .... Typically what we do ....
we take the property, the value of the property that abuts
it .... the land that the Barkans own... and extrapolate from
the assessment ....
Barkans/ Would it be the price of the lot?
Franklin/ No... not when it is not buildable.
Norton/
Nov/ It is basically serving as a driveway ..... I was just
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Council Work Session
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wondering if the ...south end could not hold a garage and that
was the question.
Franklin/ We can check the easements on that ....
c. Public hearing on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6,
entitled Zoning, Article H, entitled Industrial Zones, Section 1,
entitled General Industrial Zone (I-l) to add a special exception
to allow limited retail sales in the I-1 zone.
Franklin/ P.h...amend the General Industrial Zone to add as a
special exception limited retail sales. The ordinance is in
your packet .... also a limitation on goods that one can sell
that are not manufactured on the site. No more than 10% of the
area that is devoted to retail sales would be devoted to
things that are not made on the site. Performance standards
for commercial zone apply.
Baker/
Franklin/ It came out of a request from Gringet Feeds .... come up
over the years at different times .... It is very limited
retail. The issues here have to do with whether the retail
will preclude the industrial and the idea here is that it is
going to be of such a minimal nature that it would not be the
driving force for someone to locate in an industrial park.
1,000 square feet is not very much.
Nov/ Isn't it also limited to the products that are made on the
site?
Franklin/ 90% yes.
Norton/ Oral B could start selling toothbrushes.
Thornberry/ Tom voted in the negative ....
Tom Scott/ That was my first meeting back .... real reason that I
voted against it and argued against it is that for like
Gringer Feeds..~ isolated I-1 use .... to allow limited retail
is not out of the question but BDI Subdivision seems to me...
that is all industrial is not a proper location to be selling
retail .... small quantity... probably it is not going to be
a big thing... Seems to me to be the wrong thing to do in an
industrial park.
Baker/ 1,000 square feet restriction ....
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Franklin/
d. Amending the Zoning Chapter by amending the Conditional Zoning
Agreement for WestPort Plaza to eliminate the requirement for a
cohesive, integrated development, and to remove the requirement for
the facades of the buildings to provide horizontal continuity, for
property located in the CC-2, Community Commercial zone at 855
Highway 1 West.
Franklin/ Staples. We do not have a signed CZA and I think it is
safe to say that you won't have one tomorrow night .... then
you will have not amended CZA which is the subject of your
p.h. and any action you would take. And so you would close the
p.h. and would take no formal action because there is nothing
to vote on.
Woito/ But there may De a signed agreement... later. Bill Meardon
told me today that he is advising his client .... communication
fromMr. Berndt .... Randali's and Staples have indicated that
they would pay the $12,000 .... Morris Credit Corporation...
they refuse to sign the amended CZA. They are the property
owners for the bulk of the property .... If they pay the
$12,000 to Mr. Morris .... then he will sign it. But we do need
the signature of the land owner underlying, the Wal-Mart
property.
Franklin/ Has Bill advised as to how long in the future we should
defer this?
Woito/ Rick, do you have a- I would not expect any longer than two
weeks.
Rick
Berndt/ About ten days ago .... the owner of the land... Dr.
Morris .... indicated that he would not sign the agreement
unless someone paid him $12,000. We were taken back by
that .... Staples and Randali's... not going to let this deal
fail for $12,000. So they will make that payment and get that
signature .... Within two weeks we could get the check to this
guy and get him to sign the agreement.
Thornberry/
Berndt/ ...He is in Florida, he is a doctor.
Woito/
Berndt/ .... just an investor .... He is actually the landlord for
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Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart had directed him to sign it ....
Franklin/ I guess you should defer this for two weeks.
Thornberry/ couldn't go ahead and vote on this without the
We
signatures.
Franklin/ You can't close the p.h. until you have the signatures on
the amended CZA .... So defer to September 10.
e. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing
the use regulations of approximately 80 acres located southeast of
Sycamore Street and north of the South Wastewater Treatment
Facility. (REZ96-0012) (Second consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on the rezoning .... near South Waste
Water Treatment Plant.
f. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by approving
a SensitiveAreas Development Plan and changing the use regulations
from RS-12, High Density Single-Family Residential to OSA/RS-12,
Sensitive Areas Overlay/High Density Single-Family Residential for
a 2.29 acre property located at the intersection of Dubuque Street
and Meadow Ridge Lane. (REZ96-0011) (Second consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on the Sensitive Areas Ordinance
amendments. The P/Z Commision vote is recorded as 5-0-1. Tom,
I thought you voted against something.
Tom Scott/ (Can't hear).
Franklin/ They were voted on separately ..... discuss the amendments
that you did on the floor .... Most significant amendment was
the one was regarding critical slopes... rezoning or site plan
review. The Commission acted on each of the amendments
separately and the one that Tom voted against was the critical
slopes amendment. His vote was favoring the original amendment
which would not have required a rezoning .... In whole... the
Commission is supporting what the council did at your first
reading and does not require a meeting with the council to
resolve the issues. So you may proceed with it ..... I am
confused. I have got the wrong item. I skipped all the way to
item i. Can we go back to f.
Item f. is the Meadow Ridge Subdivision, second consideration.
You have got a request to expedite.
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g. Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Meadow
Ridge, Part 2, a 2.29 acre, 4-lot residential subdivision located
at the intersection of Dubuque Street and Meadow Ridge Lane.
(SUB96-0010)
Franklin/ G. is the plat assuming that you do expedite. It will
take all of you to expedite it tomorrow night.
h. Consider an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6,
"Zoning," Article H, entitled "Industrial Zones," Section 1,
entitled "General Industrial Zone," to allow truck terminal
facilities. (Second consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on truck terminals.
i. Consider an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6,
entitled "Zoning," Article K, entitled "Environmental Regulations,"
Section 1, entitled "Sensitive Areas Ordinance." (Second
consideration)
Franklin/ Everything I said before .... Iowa City Fitness was
granted the administrative review by the Board of Adjustment.
So they will just proceed with their project.
j. Consider an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6,
entitled "Zoning," Article O, entitled "Sign Regulations," to
delete the specific regulation of "political signs," and to amend
regulations applicable to all temporary signs, including political
signs. (Second consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on political signs.
k. Consider an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6,
entitled "Zoning," Article E, entitled "Commercial and Business
Zones," Section 1, entitled "Commercial Office Zone (CO-l)," to
allow small-animal clinics in the CO-1 zone by special exception.
(Second consideration)
Franklin/ Second consideration on the commercial office change-
Nov/
Thornberry/ I am remembering in the conversation that we had on it,
this includes the changes and re-changes?
Franklin/ Yes. What this includes is all the amendments you made
the last time around.
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Norton/ We amended the amendments over your mild objections.
Thornberry/
Franklin/ K. is small animal clinics in the Commercial Office Zone
and .... expedited consideration.
1. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by rezoning
the following properties owned by The University of Iowa to P,
Public: I E. Park Road (RNC-20), 234 N. Madison Street (RM-44),
northwest corner of Dubuque and Church Streets (RM-44), 230 N.
Clinton Street (PRY), 324 S. Madison Street (CB-2), 300 Myrtle
Avenue (RS-5), 421 Melrose Avenue (RS-5), 315 Melrose Avenue (RS-
8), 121 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), 127 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8),
129 Grand Avenue Court (RS-8), and 2222 Old Hwy. 218 S. (I-l).
(Pass and adopt)
Franklin/ The Landmarks, that is pass and adopt.
m. Consider a resolution approving a final plat of Galway Hills,
Part Three, a 21.29 acre, 53-1ot residential subdivision located
south of Galway Drive and east of Highway 218, Iowa City, Iowa.
(SUB96-0014)
Franklin/ M. is going to be pulled. There are problems with the
legal papers.
Woito/ There are problems.
Nov/
Franklin/ Defer to September 10.
n. Consider a resolution approving the final plat of Village Green,
Part XIV, a 40.19 acre, one-lot residential subdivision located
north of Village Road and east of Oxford Place, Iowa City, Iowa.
(SUB96-0016)
Franklin/ Village Green, Part 14 and that is a 40 acre project
which includes one lot that is being developed and two
outlots.
Norton/ I am glad you are going to go over this.
Franklin/ (Refers to plat map). The lot that is being developed
immediately is this lot 42. The remainder of this, outlot
A .... since become outlot B & C ..... (Refers to plat map) ....
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drainage way and lot which provides a connection between
Village Green and Village Green South... connect with a
greenway .... The concern was that that open space be acquired
at this time .... the .92 little piece right here. It is a
drainage easement and then some .... but will connect nicely
with the greenway to the south. So there is an outlot C which
is in this area right here... Outlot B... Outlot A which is
the remainder. Lot 42 is 8 units ..... condominiums.
Norton/ .... it adds onto that big piece to the south? ....
Franklin/ (Refers to plat map). It is basically this area right in
here.
Norton/ My map shows that much smaller.
Franklin/ This is a concept plan... Outlot A is not subdivided
yet .... There is statements in the staff report about the
streets .... between these two and this issue of dedicated open
space .... They will dedicate the open space plus pay part of
their obligation in fee in lieu of and this has gone through
the P/R Commission.
Norton/ The open space for all of Village Green will include what?
Just that part in the south section plus this little strip?
Franklin/ Oh, no. There is a lot of Green Space that is in Village
Green .... This is the public space to connect with that area
to the south.
Norton/
Franklin/ It is a drainage way .... There will be a trail along the
detention basin.
Norton/ Will that be in the back of yards?
Franklin/ Yes .... That was one reason, Dee, it was important to get
a connection onto to Village Road was so you would have that
access .... It should be a very nice connection when it is all
done ..... (Refers to plat map).
P/Z Commission also made a recommendation to the council which
we don't have on for a resolution. You just need to consider
their recommendation informally and what they have done and
Tom Scott and Ann Bovbjerg are here to explain it further ....
That their notion is that we should be looking at high density
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multi-family and parking in the d.t. in the CB-10 and it is a
concern about parking and a desire to treat multi-family
residential in the d.t. the same way we treat multi-family
residential in the CB-5. That is their recommendation that you
assign that to staff with a high priority to look at that ....
parking is an issue... A matter of whether you wish to
instruct us to do some special work related to having high
density residential in the d.t. and how we deal with parking
for it.
Nov/ Do you want to wait until we have done a more thorough
discussion of council priorities in d.t. and elsewhere?...
Franklin/ My choice? Well, it is your choice. I don't agree with
the position of the Commission on this one.
Thornberry/ What is pressing at this point that you need something
right away?
Franklin/ The Commission has asked you to tell us to have a work
item to address this issue, the multi-family residential and
the parking. I think what precipitated it was the Park
Project.
Nov/
There may be in a council discussion next month other
priorities that will bump this one. I am saying let's not put
it on top of the list right now.
Norton/ Isn't there concern that other things might happen? ....
Thornberry/
Baker/ We had sent the Commission a couple of concerns .... we had
about parking... neighborhoods around the d.t. area... to
discourage ....
Franklin/ That was a very broad... parking.. design.. how multi-
family fits...
Baker/ That is a higher priority that this particular issue that
you just raised.
Norton/
Baker/
Franklin/ He asked me what we have done with that and I said
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nothing to this point. It is some time in the fall or early
winter. It was second to something else, the entrance way
Overlay Zone .... on the pending items in the work program ....
Baker/ I don't want the first one that I talked about to be put
behind the one that was raised by the Commission just
recently .... We still have discussion to do ourselves about
the d.t .... I don't think we can give you an answer tonight.
Tom Scott/ The other thing that precipitated some of the discussion
is the Board of Adjustments willingness to grant a special
exception to both the Glasgow proposal... and to the Clark
proposal for private parking in the CB-10 Zone which has not
been allowed .... What you are seeing is development very very
similar to CB-5 where there is X number of parking places that
are required and an impact fee is imposed for other parking
spaces that are required .... I am not saying that the
Commission has arrived at any position that there ought to be
a parking impact fee or that there ought not be high rise
multi-family residential development with or without
parking... whether or not the Board of Adjustment should or
should not be granting special exceptions to the parking
requirements ..... Board of Adjustment... they thought that
some parking should be required... major policy decision that
needs to be answered ..... I does seem to me that there are
some major policy issues that the council needs to decide ....
Baker/ Tom... Is it a bigger concern the CB-5?
Scott/ We went through the CB-5 rather recently and everybody
bought into those particular parking requirements ....
Certainly in the CB-5 zone the residential is driving the
commercial. I don't know if that is a legitimate statement for
the CB-10 ....
Baker/
Scott/
Norton/ But you are
specifically ....
point?
talking about addressing it in the CB-10
You are not going to re-visit CB-5 at this
Scott/ No .... Thank you.
Franklin/ So what direction do I have here?
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Norton/ Seems to me a lot of concerns have been raised... what do
we want to see.
Nov/ What will you delay if you do this first?
Franklin/ Depends on what you want to do with the d.t. because
there is going to be a lot of work that goes into that. This
is part of the d.t. and parking in the d.t .... is going to be
an issue. If you are even contemplating revisiting the policy
that has been in place for a number of years about parking in
the d.t., that is a significant departure from current policy.
And we have kind of chipped away at it. There is another
project on Burlington Street that has some parking in the back
of it that was granted by the Board of Adjustment... Linn and
Burlington that has parking that has parking with it ....
There is a concern about parking in the d.t... critical
question is whose responsibility is it? It has always been
said that it is the City's responsibility to provide parking
in the d.t .....
Thornberry/ Big apartment building on Capital Street .... that isn't
considered d.t. but it is close in.
Franklin/ That is in the PRM ....
Thornberry/ Plenty of parking area there?
Franklin/ No, that is also in the impact fee area and so they were
required to provide 50% of required parking on site and they
pay for 50% and that is what they meet ..... the discussion of
Near South Side and that was to have high density residential
in the Near South Side .... High intensity use in the
commercial areas .... idea was to have people d.t. living and
working and then they won't all drive to the d.t .... shared
trips or they will live there and some will not bring cars ....
Nov/ If they brought a car and did not park it d.t., where did they
park it?
Franklin/ They may buy storage space, rent a garage...on street ....
Thornberry/ I have apartments with parking.
Norton/ Work pattern for the staff. If we are going to be looking
at d.t. thing... will this get considered fast enough? ....
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Franklin/ In d.t., you have got 64-1A ..... Senior Center parking
lot .... potential sites for redevelopment. It is highly
unlikely that somebody is going to buy a building d.t, take it
out, and put up a new building .... very expensive real
estate ....
Norton/ .... City provides parking in CB-10.
Tom
Scott/ Last thing... high density residential multi family
density developments demand more parking than commercial,
office, retail uses do in d.t. Iowa City .... as proper mix in
d.t. Iowa City. The reason that you encourage residential
development .... in the CB-10 zone is for people to live and
work there .... This is not the type of development that we are
seeing. What we are getting are basically dormitories or nine
month hotels. You don't have the predominance of working
people who are moving into the CB-5 ....
Franklin/ I would say that students living in the d.t. are
analogous to people who would live and work in the d.t. Same
kind of behavior in terms of trips .... Therefore I don't see
the distinction.
Scott/
Nov/ Tom, if you are going to comment, you are going to have to
come to the microphone.
Franklin/ We are getting into a lot of the meat ....
Nov/ can we defer this discussion?
Lehman/ Make it part of the d.t. discussion .....
Franklin/ How timely the d.t. discussion is entirely up to you.
Thornberry/ It is going to be sooner than later.
Norton/ Let's do it with the d.t. discussion.
Nov/ Okay.
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Building DesiGn Plans - Old Library Lot 96-89 S2
Franklin/ What you are being asked to look at tonight are the most
current design plans for the building on the old public
library parking lot .... design of the building. Density,
parking, all of that stuff is set by the zoning and the
actions of the Board of Adjustment. You are looking at the
design because of the condition that was placed on the sale of
this property years ago that the council would be the final
decision maker on what this building would look like. Joe
Holland and Jim Clark and Tim Schmidt are here to present this
to you tonight.
Joe Holland/ ...I represent Jim Clark and Main Street Partners.
Tonight we brought back revised drawings .... very attractive
building .... product of a number of things: the comments the
council made at the last meeting .... design review process and
also changes which occurred during the design phase .... nature
of site... Improved building.. very attractive... asset to the
area. What is on the easel is a view of building from Gilbert
Street .... Design Review... the southeast corner of the
building is so far above street level. There is not really
anything that can be done about that .... topography of the
lot... This lot slopes... six feet from the northwest corner
to the southeast corner .... detriment... opportunity...
increasing the size of the plantings .... to cover some of that
foundation .... Make area along the street a little more
attractive ..... Other concern... steps on Gilbert Street side
were a little narrow... Those have not been widened to 11
feet .... There is a center staircase .... This is what you
would see if you looked at the property from the Gilbert
Street side ....
Norton/ There is no way to get anything taller than the foundation
plantings? .....
Holland/ There is not enough space... fairly narrow area... Can't
plant a tree that branches out very much... arborvitaes ....
Nov/ It appears you have taken off one level of apartments.
Holland/ Correct. Now there are 48 units in the building ....
Nov/ Arched area in the center has not been lowered ....
Audience/ Everything was brought down ....
Norton/ Is the arch flush with the Gilbert Street wall?
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Holland/ The arch is set back approximately three feet ..... I am
going to save College Street until lasto
This is a view of the building as if you are looking at it
from the old library building ....
CF~GE T;tPE TO REEL 96-93 SIDE 1
Holland/ .... screened by a brick wall of the same color.
Baker/ This diagram shows the air conditioning units for the
commercial tenants ..... Are those going to be screened?
Holland/ They will be screened with the railing similar to the
balconies .....
Norton/ Is the railing-
Holland/ (Refers to building plan) for the commercial units here
and here. Those will be screened in with essentially the same
thing as the balcony railings.
Norton/ Is that railing in the center... where is that? ....
Holland/ (Refers to building plan). I believe that is flush with
the west edge of the building.
Norton/
Holland/ This is the area where the gas meters are ....
Nov/ And there will be rod iron railing of some sort to screen the
air conditioning units?
Holland/ Right... wall of building that faces west, they will be
railings there.
Norton/ Opening to the commercial court yard ....
Holland/ If I could bring up the floor plan of the first floor.
(Refers to building plan) .... this is essentially open space,.
There is an elevator here .... Down here traffic comes out on
either side of where the gas meters are .... It is designed for
flip traffic ....
Thornberry/ ...where do you put the snow? Are you going to shovel
that?
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Holland/ The plan right now is for the tenants to move that out to
the center and the landlord is going to take it out of
there ....
Norton/ You got water, too. Won't there be a drain in there
somewhere in that space? ....
Holland/ It drains down into the storm sewer .... This is the view
from the alley .... service sides of the building. This is
where there is going to be bicycle parking, dumpster and the
electrical panels, meters. This will also be screened by a
wooden fence .... fronting on the alley and not quite so
public .... windows cut out in the foundation to allow for
additional visibility for people coming in and out of their
garage .... It is simply a safety feature.
Vanderhoef/ I have a question. I am thinking of a handicapped
driver who drives the car in and comes up to the first ground
level on the elevator. Then the only way that they can exit
the area is at the ground level space that is on ... the
library side.
Holland/ This northwest corner there is where the site access is
for handicapped accessibility is. That is one reason it needs
to be level up at that corner is to provide a direct on-ramp
for people who have some sort of motion disability.
Vanderhoef/ There is only one way they can get in and get out of
that area ....
Holland/ If they are in that central corridor, they could go out
around those gas meters .... That may be an alternative ....
primary... is going to be that ramp in the northwest corner by
the old library.
Vanderhoef/ Then there are two ways to get in and out .....
Holland/ We can look at the dimensions on that.
Clark/ (Can't hear).
Thornberry/ On mine... only way to get out of those apartments is
down an elevator .... handicap people can not get out of my
handicap apartments. This is what I have a problem with ....
Nov/ ...two ways out on grade .... shouldn't be any problem ....
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Norton/ ...traffic patterns .....
Holland/ I think traffic flows will develop where people will come
south on Gilbert Street and turn in ..... When they come out
they are going to exit and go out towards Linn Street
primarily .....
Norton/ If they come in the closed lane and turn left... going
south on Gilbert and they make a right, they have to make
another very sudden right into the entrance. Is that
right? .....
Holland/ There are basically two cuing spaces between the down
ramp.. and Gilbert Street.
Thornberry/ It shows one dumpster... Is there more than one
dumpster? .....
Holland/ That is the only location for dumpsters and whatever is
there is going to be in that location .... There will be as
much dumpster in there that will fit. It will get dumped at
least daily if not more often.
Nov/ And it is for residential and commercial uses?
Holland/ Yes.
Thornberry/
Holland/ .... see what happens .... Garbage blowing around and
overfull dumpsters is not a problem at his properties with the
exception of the usual times when the students move out ....
I think one part of the process is that the College Street
side has improved quite a bit... changes... were made ....
(refers to drawings) ..... In response to concerns from DR
there is an additional set of stairs .... both of these are
going to have staircases .... These five bays will have
staircases off of College Street to provide access to the
businesses. The ramp for handicap accessibility is here at the
northwest corner of the property ..... This basically is an
arcade .... storefronts .... sit about ten feet back .... Once
someone who is in a wheelchair... they can go all the way
around the building... very accessible .... DR comments... show
additional relief on it. These areas... three areas we set
back an additional four inches and these are already set out
an inch... five inch relief between the corner and this wall
(refers to drawing) .... Make guttering less obvious... got to
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WS082696
August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 17
get the water to where it belongs .... Run the guttering down
that relief .... makes it less conspicuous .... guttering less
visible. There are some changes in the windows... tall and
narrow .... They didn't get put into this drawing. They are
windows which are narrower .... columns .... same changes are
going to be made to the windows on the Gilbert Street
side .....
Norton/ (Refers to drawing).
Molland/ It goes through into that center .... 25 foot wide.
Nov/ Does it also access some of the store fronts?
Holland/ Yes and no question.
Nov/ ... There are stairs then to access all the stores along
College Street.
Holland/ There are stairs all the way along this front.
Nov/
Holland/ ...But you are not sure what will be off that corridor?
Holland/ I can show you on the
thing .... air conditioning
also .... 21 feet ....
drawing (refers to drawing). One
vents .... They will be screened
Norton/ Looks like some very interesting commercial space there.
Holland/ None of these walls are load bearing .... It is up to what
a tenant would want .... The colors are substantially what you
see before you. The architects don't have the exact color
matches to reproduce... There are two colors of brick
proposed .... Predominant brick .... darker brick is an accent
brick .... highlights .... Military blue is the color for the
trim .... Combination of the brick and stone and blue trim ....
building certainly has some historical elements which
compliments... contemporary color scheme... best of both
worlds ....
Nov/ Roof color ....
Holland/ This is what you will see... call it brown... reddish
overtone .... Does anyone have any questions?
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 18
Baker/ .... This resolution for tomorrow night .... plans... what is
the connection with this resolution and the design?
Woito/ All of these should be dated whatever date is in the
resolution.
Holland/ I hope to be here tomorrow night with the final set...
color specs and a set that we can give to the City.. permanent
records ....
Norton/ These discussions are also part of the public record after
all.
Vanderhoef/
Holland/ The changes that we are talking about for tomorrow
night .... steps and the windows ....
council/ (All talking).
Holland/ Some things you have to take on faith .... There is
absolutely no intention to deviate from this ....
Council/ (All talking).
Woito/ You'll give us a list of specifications with the date on
tomorrow.
Holland/ We really hope you can approve it tomorrow .... important
to get rolling on this .... before winter gets here .... Thank
you very much ....
Thisrepresents only e reasonebly accuratetranscription ofthelowa CiW council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 19
Highway 965 Compromise Alignment 96-93 Sl
Jeff Davidson/ Bring everybody back up to speed of where we are at
with this issue .... What we are trying to work towards is an
agreement between Johnson County Board of Supervisors, you
all, and the Coralville City council designating where the
corridor for the proposed extension of Hwy 965 between Hwy 6
and Hwy I will be .... City of Coralville and City of Iowa City
kind of deadlocked on the east and west alternatives .... Out
of that discussion... compromise alternatives .... The concern
centered around principally the impact on the growth area
boundary in west Iowa City ..... I will summarize what the
consultant has found ..... Highlight for you .... The
information in residential displacements is not accurate in
the report .... There is one residential dwelling right here
(refers to map). There is an additional one here for the west
alignment... The three compromise alternatives that you see
here, the only one of those which displaces a residential
dwelling is A ..... One for the east alignment B & C and two
for the west alignment an A ..... The report .... two tables ....
other table the consultant put together deleted the east
alternative ..... The information that you have includes
everything that is in the second table .... The Coralvflle City
Engineer called me this afternoon and asked that I represent
to you .... his opinion is still that the west alignment is the
preferred alternative with respect to environmental
features .... The consultants conclusion is that C is the
preferred alternative .... of the three compromise
alternatives. One other thing ..... reiterate to you, is that
I hate having to continue to refer to this as the extension of
]~WY 965 because we are not building a highway here .... We are
talking about building an urban arterial street .... Because it
is a state designated route, it is Hwy 965... The other
thing .... there would be some diagonal severances of property
and obviously there are .... The consultant has tried to
minimize the impact of those diagonal severances ..... The
people who are representing the property owners .... have
offered.. possibility of relocating this interchange to
here .... If that is something that you are interesting in
pursuing, I did contact the IDOT this afternoon. They have
informed me of what would be needed in order to do that...
cost parameters .... Three compromise alternatives: C is
recommended of the three based on evaluation of environmental
and engineering factors.
Lehman/
Davidson/ The consultants recommendation of C is of A, B, and C ....
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WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 20
A & B are not recommended at this point .... All five can be
engineered according to our design standards.
Thornberry/ C cuts up more property ....
Davidson/ Of the three compromised alternatives. they initially
looked at six alignments, threw three of them out and then
focused on the additional three .... you also got the expense
numbers... £ is ... most favorable from a cost perspective as
well ....
Nov/ Less expensive...
Davidson/
Norton/ C follows the terrain.
Davidson/ I am here to discuss anything... I am going to the Board
of Supervisors tomorrow morning and to Coralville tomorrow
night. Coralville did request us to be on the agenda at JCCOG
meeting on Wednesday ....
Vanderhoef/ What is the distance between the west alignment and the
east alignment...?
Davidson/ About one half mile (refers to map).
Vanderhoef/ Down south, south of Me]rose.
Davidson/ Half mile.
Vanderhoef/ Would moneys be available from DOT to purs~e a second
road down the ease alignment?
Davidson/ The money we receive from the DOT which JCCOG splits
up ..... federal aid money ..... That money can only be spent on
Federal Aid System... arterial street system ..... Iowa City
gets the largest share .....
Vanderhoef/ Tell me what the probability might be of trying to have
two arterials half mile apart.
Davidson/ Very negligible ..... You would probably establish one as
an arterial and one as a collector... that would not be
eligible for federal money ....
Norton/ I need to hear Mace's suggestion, some discussion of that.
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WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 21
Davidson/ If that is something you want to pursue, there is a very
specific set of guidelines that we need to follow ..... The
very first thing the DOT would want to see is endorsement of
the concept by the metropolitan planning organization...
JCCOG .... Once that is accomplished, the Transportation
Planning Division would do a traffic analysis of it ..... The
next issue is, of course, the funding .... $1 million to $2
million project .... (Refers to map) .... 45 acres of
property .... About $2 million to construct an interchange of
that design.
Lehman/ We are currently widening Melrose .... where will that
traffic go?
Davidson/ We would have a diamond interchange here which would then
have a connection down to Melrose via Hurt Road alignment
(refers to map) .... That would all have to be discussed by
JCCOG as part of this because that is in the JCCOG Arterial
Street Plan and the state would want to have all of those
loose ends tied up ..... They didn't say no .....
Nov/ Is the cost of the bridge over 218 and the cost of interchange
construction about the same?
Davidson/ I would have to go back to the original report. I can
find that out. It is going to be big numbers.
Thornberry/ Did I understand you to say that if we were to vacate
the interchange at Melrose and 218, that the state would want
some of that money back? .....
Davidson/ Yeah, Federal Road Use Tax was used to construct this ....
There is a life span of what is out there .... This is a 45
acre parcel right here (refers to map) ..... They are going to
expect to see some recouping of that investment ....
Thornberry/ Let's just do the west and go about our business.
Norton/ I am going to C .....
Davidson/ Karin is here if you would like her to speak to the
growth boundary issue.
Thornberry/ We can still make growth area boundaries whatever we
want whenever we build it .....
Norton/ Question of serving the growth area with gravity sewers ....
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WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 22
Davidson/ Changing the growth area and how and when this is
developed is something that you have a lot to say about.
Norton/ C. follows pretty much along our contour, doesn't it Karin?
Franklin/ Yes.
Davidson/ C. does get Iowa City what we are trying to get Iowa City
in this area ....
Lehman/ How much land does that butcher?
Davidson/ (Refers to map) ....
Norton/ All of them have some severances ....
compromise ....
C .... wonderful
Thornberry/ When you talk the logistics of the road... west
alignment you can limit the growth... doesn't mean you have to
put utilities out there .... Going through C .... chopping up
Mr. Kennedy's property pretty good .... going to have to buy
that ....
Nov/
Thornberry/ If we are saying we are going to go C., we have to
condemn his property to put it through there.
Nov/
You wouldn't put it through there until somebody wants to
develop that area. You are not going to put it through there
while it is still farm land.
Baker/ We are just choosing a route.
Norton/ We are Just choosing a route. We are not developing a road.
Baker/
Thornberry/ ...I have decided now that I think west is the way to
go .....
Vanderhoef/ I could see going with the west alignment. However, I
personally would encourage development of the east alignment
as a collector ....
Davidson/
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W$082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 23
Vanderhoef/... never seem to have a real good collector street
through .... south of Melrose in particular ....
Davidson/ The problem we get with straight through collectors is we
start hearing from people that cars are going too fast .....
too much traffic .... We like them to build a little
discontinuity into that collector ..... It is the arterials
that we want to have the straight through shots so they are
convenient ....
Thornberry/ That is going to be like a Scott Blvd. on the west side
of town .... Our growth boundary can just be a half mile over.
Nov/ No, it is not all that easy because you are trying to deal
with a gravity sewer system ....
Norton/ West would be right next to the landfill. East would be
right on our drainage line which would seem to be sensible and
also follows the contour.
Thornberry/ .... sooner or later if the road is built, we are going
to have to condemn his property, right?
Norton/
Nov/ Only if this land is sold to a developer who wants to put in
a road is this road going to get built.
Norton/
Lehman/ I think if there is enough pressure for the road to
develop ..... I think there is going to be a lot of pressure
for this road to be built sooner rather than later.
Nov/ I think the north end is going to be sooner ....
Baker/ I agree with Dee. C seems like a logical alternative.
Davidson/ I am hearing two Cs and two wests and two undetermined.
Nov/ I would go along with C.
Davidson/ Four Cs (Norton, Vanderhoef, Baker, Nov).
Lehman/ I like the logic for C but I don't like the diagonal cut.
Norton/
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WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 24
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-93 SIDE 2
Nov/ I have also heard from Mr. Slothower who would like us to use
the west alignment because the other alignment was too close
to his house .....
Thornberry/ I think perhaps the north is going to be built rather
soon .... Coralville is even talking about coming down even
further ....
Davidson/ ...Current Coralville City council has said that they are
going to be fairly aggressive about this portion of it ....
Thornberry/... you are going to go north and then have to cut
over ....
Lehman/ ... Camp Cardinal Road...
Davidson/ Camp Cardinal will probably come up and then come over
and provide more of a collector type street through the
area ....
Norton/
Thornberry/ Where is the fourth?
Vanderhoef/ I am going to go C.
Davidson/ .... indicate a majority of council has indicated
Alternative C. That is fair enough? Okay, thank you.
Nov/ Is Karen Kubby going to be here Wednesday?
Davidson/ I assume she has talked to you or Larry about attending
in her place?
Nov/ No .....
Davidson/ Vice Chairperson Lacina will be chairing the JCCOG
meeting on Wednesday.
Karr/ Karen is gone until after Labor Day.
Nov/ No one has said anything about a substitute after
Wednesday ..... I just offered.
Thisrepresents only areasonabl¥ accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 25
Agreement With The Elks
Nov/ Elk's Agreement.
96-93 S2
Atkins/ You have an agreement in front of you that pertains to the
Elk's and the City .... legal process .... intention is this is
a recommended proposal to you that allows for us as a City to
provide for a Foster Road alignment and at the same time,
allows the Elk's to continue operating as a gold course
whereby they would be obligated to reconstruct a couple of
golf holes. Most everything else revolves around those two
major issues .... rest of it involves granting of easements and
other obligations .... to allow us to construct water lines
through that area ....
Norton/ Why is some sold and some leased?
Atkins/ Subject to negotiation. We just compromised on those ....
Norton/ How did you come up with 15 to sell? The logic escapes me.
Atkins/ 15 acres up above .... that is the land is available for
development .... It is out of the flood plain. It is
developable land and we paid $15,000 an acre for that land ....
The lower land is where golf holes will be located is in land
that we purchased with CDBG moneys following the '93 flood ....
Norton/ It takes 22 acres to build two golf holes?
Atkins/ This particular configuration requires that .... This
appeared to be the best option to allow the Elks Golf Club to
continue.
Vanderhoef/ Do we have to pay back any of the FEMA money?
Atkins/ It is not- That is the obligation of the Elks if it were to
be required. HUD money, not FEMA. If it is required to be
repaid, that is the Elks obligation. Right now it does not
appear to be the obligation .... Land was to be preserved as
open space ....
Norton/ Suppose HUD wanted some of that back, will you quickly
switch some of that back to a lease?...
Woito/ No.
Atkins/ No, that wasn't part of the negotiations.
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WS082696
August 26, 1996
council Work Session
Norton/ Does the lease mean it can only be golf
structure?
Atkins/ Down below that is all spelled out.
Norton/ The 15 acres cannot be a new club house site?
Woito/ Correct .... and cart pathway.
Atkins/ They could sell the land off of it eventually.
Page 26
holes, no
Nov/ That 15 acres is their property. You cannot tell them you may
not build a club house.
Atkins/ Then they would have to redesign the golf course again.
Nov/ We wouldn't have any jurisdiction over what they did with it.
Atkins/ It is sold. That's true.
Woito/ That is not true. No. They can only use the property for
golf holes and cart pathways. That is the way we drafted it.
Arkins/ Even if they sold it?
Woito/ Yes.
Atkins/ That can't be right because if they sold it for development
purposes ....
Vanderhoef/ If it did revert to something else at a later time,
then it would have to be with the same covenants that went
with the other developable land around there. So you could
technically build on it right now.
Atkins/ I understood that technically sometime in the future the
Elks could choose to sell that land for development purposes.
This 15 acres is a portion of that land that they could sell.
Nov/ The lease land is restricted.
Atkins/ The lower land is restricted, that is correct and that is
simply because of the nature of that land ....
Norton/ Why not lease the whole thing ... maintain control..?
Atkins/ It was subject to negotiations and that is what we arrived
Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetrenscriptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingof August26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 27
at, Dee. I will have to defer to Chuck if he wishes to
comment...
Woito/ We started out with that position of leasing because that
was my preference. I think in terms of the Elks trying to sell
their case to their membership, they were going to pay
$226,000 which was our sort of bottom line. They at least
wanted something for it ....
Atkins/ The intent was the value of the upper land, the $1.3
million would be returned to our general fund... by F¥99. This
is a step towards that process ....
Norton/
Arkins/
Baker/ The acres that are sold, if it is going to be redeveloped
later, it has to go through a rezoning process, right?
Arkins/ They have all sorts of hoops they have to jump through,
certainly ..... We believe the Elks Golf Course a favorable
land use .... for that area .... The land use is a good one.
Baker/ Where did you get this $1,000 a month for us to put in for
an easement?
Arkins/ There are several factors. One is that access road is for
well purposes. It is also an extension of a public trail.
There are,. I think two factors. That is sort of a
representation of all the other easements .... Your policy
position has been that water revenues are not to be used for
recreational purposes and that we will pay that $1,000 a month
because this is a dual purpose road, public trail, out of the
General Fund .... We could have pursued purchase .... We
proposed the long term lease .... access to our well fields...
I don't have to pay... up front .... I did not believe
condemnation to be in our best interest.
Baker/ How many acres are we giving them at $1 a year?
Atkins/ 7.13 .....
Baker/ They are being charge $1 a year for that and we are paying
$1,000 a year-
Norton/ A month.
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WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 28
Atkins/ $12,000 a year for a trail, that is correct and all the
other easements.
Norton/ How many acres is that trail?
Atkins/ About 90,000 square feet .... about two acres.
Norton/ That looks like that might ought to be a wash.
Nov/ I would have gone for a $1 a year .... $1,000 month sounds
awfully high.
Baker/ That sounds exorbitantly high. That is just totally
unacceptable. I would rather go to court and buy the land.
Nov/ .... Why would we take money from the General Fund to lease
this land at the rate of $1,000 a month for 99 years...?
Atkins/ $12,000 a year, 99 years, is $1 million. Let's say we have
to pay $100,000 for that land .... 5% interest on that money,
it doubles every 14 years. So at the end of 100 years, you
probably got $10 million invested. That is the arithmetic that
I was doing up here.
Norton/ Isn't that land... similar to the lower land that we are
leasing them for $1 a year?
Atkins/ They own the land and they believe it has a value to
them .... Dee, you don't know any of these things until you
actually pursue the condemnation and let a third party decide
it for you. I believe the condemnation wasn't in our best
interest. We have not done well.
Baker/ Did they request $1,000 a month or did we offer $1,000 a
month?
Atkins/ $1,000 ended up on the table, that is correct.
Baker/ From whom.
Atkins/ During negotiations. Please understand folks .... side
conversations... issues... It didn't happen that way.
Norton/ I am just trying to get a handle on the rationale for that
difference in value that is not related to the acreage.
Atkins/ If you take the other easements and put a dollar figure in
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WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 29
them, would that have made a difference?
Nov/ No .... The numbers don't seem to line up.
Baker/ .... I want this to be revenue for the City, that was my
goal .... We accommodate them as long as we don't have to spend
any money. And I don't think that this accomplishes that.
Arkins/ I will respectively disagree with you... gaining easements
which have a value ....
Baker/ Do you think $12,000 a month is a fair price on these?
Atkins/ I would prefer not paying it, that is correct but that is
the way it has worked out.
Baker/ It hasn't worked out that way yet because that is not our
offer.
Atkins/ ... I have recommended this agreement to you. If you choose
to change that, that is certainly your call ....
Norton/ ... other easements... have to see those... I would be
surprised on an easement for a monthly basis ....
Atkins/ ...I suspect we could go back and negotiate a cash payment
for that .... Only way to resolve it was condemnation .... not
in our best interest.
Nov/ We also had a previous r.o.w. which was not on a map... They
have been using public property free of fees for whatever
number of years. I would have assumed that this would be part
of our agreement and it doesn't seem to be ....
Atkins/ It is all part of the agreement .... trouble trying to
convince you of... if golf course is good land use, then we
ought to do our best to try to preserve it .... We have an
obligation that if we are going to pursue development up
there... locate that road .... Even if we come close to where
that alignment is right now, it takes out two golf holes.
Norton/
Woito/ There are a number of other considerations that we did not
itemize. We don't have two lists of dollar figures. The r.o.w.
is going to have to be fixed ..... We know how wide it is... if
we condemn, we are going to have to fix the location. We are
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 26, 1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 30
going to have to pay for some of that and we are going to have
to condemn for temporary construction easements which are
going to be very intrusive into the golf course. We are also
getting water main distribution easements .... There are a
number of other considerations... We didn't take a pen and
pencil to every single consideration on the balance.
Nov/
Vanderhoef/
Baker/ ...condemnation... is also not in the Elk's interest either.
Atkins/ We have an undevelopable parcel of land... They have a
fixed land use that clearly has a value... Our land is sitting
there... flood plain... other portion is possible for
development ....
Thornberry/ ...going through a golf course is a rather expensive
proposition ..... It is going to be a lot more expensive than
going through the Ford dealership ....
Baker/ .... It is in their interest as well that we don't do that.
Atkins/ It was in our interest then to negotiate because we both
have vested interest .... If you are not satisfied with some of
the negotiations, all I can do is you send us back and I will
go back to the drawing board.
council/ (All talking).
Norton/ There is a kind of element of hostility floating around
here .... I am interested in reaching some kind of reasonable
agreement with the Elks on this matter. I think there is a
problem .... they have been into our r.o.w .... I want to see
something to justify the $1,000... to try to get a kind of a
better rationale for the $1,000 a month .... I am trying to
come up with a rationale for the number... It may not exist.
Thornberry/ .... The r.o.w. is there somewhere.
Atkins/ There is a road .... There is a r.o.w. which you are
entitled to use for a road. We know that, they know that.
Thornberry/ What if it happens to be on their property?
Atkins/ We don't believe that to be the case.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 26, 1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 31
Thornberry/
Norton/ If there is a r.o.w., it can't be on their property.
Atkins/ I think you could move the thing 50 feet and you are still
going to tear up a golf hole .....
Thornberry/
Norton/ ..I am not so concerned with upstairs where they have
encroached into our r.o.w. wherever it may be ....
Thornberry/
Norton/ .... cost... add the trail and get to our well. Trade that
off against the $1 a year for them to get 7.5 acres down
there .... It just seems to me there was a bigger disparity
there than I could easily rationalize.
Atkins/ My concern was trying to lease to them land purchased by
other than local resources ..... We purchased that land with
the federal government's money. My belief is that we extend
that benefit to them .... If the federal government wants their
money back, they have to pay for it .... I think it is our best
interest to go to bat for them. They shouldn't have to pay
this back because the use of the land is not substantially
changed. It is open space in a flood plain ....
Baker/ Steve, you said... you would prefer the lease price is not
$1,000 a month... Is that the same thing as saying $1,000 is
an unreasonable price?
Atkins/ No, I don't think it is unreasonable, no.
Baker/ So it is a fair price?
Arkins/ I think it is a reasonable price given the complexity of
the negotiations. I really do ..... I thinkyou have to put all
of the factors out there together .... The Elk's only want to
preserve the golf course .... We have a variety of issues that
have to be considered.
Baker/ .... $1,000 for that easement is unacceptable ....
Arkins/ Unacceptable yes, unreasonable no, unfair no ....
Unacceptable, that is fine.
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WSG82696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 32
Thornberry/ How can you charge them $12,000 a year for something
that we didn't pay a penny for?
Norton/
Thornberry/
Nov/ I thought it was going to be dollar for dollar wash.
Thornberry/ We didn't pay anything for that land .... The lower
portion we didn't pay for.
Norton/ How much of this property that is being conveyed to the
Elk's, the 15 acres? .... there is some property up above,
adjacent to the Foster Road extension on perhaps both sides of
that .... that would be developable.
Atkins/ They have a little piece of property .... (refers to map).
There is a piece of property that the Elk's could develop when
the road is located.
Woito/ It is a little piece of property right there. Very little.
Atkins/ (Refers to map). The Elk's has the potential to develop a
piece of property .....
Norton/ It is the number... see how they wash. It is just the
monthly cost... pretty substantial number .... Kind of looking
for a wash on those two ....
Atkins/ Would you have rather negotiated a lump sum payment?
Nov/ ¥eah. it would have been far more complicated, I know ....
Atkins/ Very complicated. I am sure we could arrive at a number
with the Elks at a one time payment ....
Baker/ I prefer that the council say this is an unacceptable
figure, go back and renegotiate and start talking again...
Woito/ Does that include the $226,000?
Norton/ No, I thought that was straight forward.
Woito/ But they are linked together.
Atkins/ They are going to put everything on the table.
Thlsrefire;e~t$o~ty aree~ona~Hyaccurate ~anecrlptto~of ~elowa CIw council meeting ~ August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session
Page 33
Woito/ They are linked together in this whole settlement.
Atkins/ When we settled this .... nothing is firm .... If you send us
back, there will be things put on the table. Just so you are
prepared for that. I will do whatever you want me to do.
Vanderhoef/
Woito/ You will see less than that for the 15 acres, right.
Norton/ We have to make a kind of firm decision on this tomorrow
night, right?
Nov/ No, we do not need to make a firm decision. I have talked to
Linda about this .... We are also setting a p.h. tomorrow...
p.h. is not until 10th of September. I am not comfortable
about signing an agreement with the Elk's until after the p.h.
Baker/ Sign an agreement and then have a p.h.?
Nov/ We are not going to do that.
Baker/ Whose idea was that?
Nov/ I don't know .... I said no...I won't sign it until after the
p.h.
Atkins/ But they deserve an understanding an expression of your
interest in this thing .... I made a commitment that I will
recommend an agreement ....
Nov/ ... When do they start construction on the golf course?
Atkins/ Right now they are not going to do anything until this is
settled.
Nov/ ...Let's say this were to be settled two weeks from now .....
Atkins/ My understanding... we have done our best to work with
them... every good faith on their part and our part ....
Chuck Mullen/ Remind you .... definition of true compromise...
neither side is happy with .... Larry seems to think the City
staff is g~ving away the farm .... If this ends up in
condemnation, we are going to fight about everything ....
Baker/ I appreciate that ....
Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 34
Mullen/ .... $1,000 a month might be a very small amount ....
Baker/ One of Steve's assumptions is council wanted to preserve
existing use of the land... that was a goal of ours... Be very
clear about what that use is... use of land by a private
organization that doesn't pay property taxes, limited
membership, public interest is debatable.
Thornberry/ I take offense of that, Larry. He made a comment that
I don't agree with ..... When you say the Elk's Club is not for
the public good, you are wrong .... It is one of he oldest
organizations and best organizations in the U.S .....
Baker/ I would be glad to debate that ....
Mullen/ I would suggest to you that there is something in this
agreement for everybody... 'timing is important to us ....
Baker/ Why do you all need $1,000 a month?
Mullen/ Why do you need $225,000? ..... (Refers to map). This whole
area here, we can't use this .... It is part of what we have to
buy in this area to make it work for us as well as you ....
Nov/
Baker/
Norton/ Well, we have time to put a few more numbers in here ....
would like to kind of put it together to ease my own mind.
Arkins/ I strongly believe that the estimates on those things is
going to be ...could be every very substantial.
Norton/ I want to make sure I understand exactly what can happen
with this property if the Elk's decide to change their
spots .... Get out of the golf business.
Arkins/
Woito/ If they get out of the golf business, sell it. We would
still own the easement portion.
Mullen/
Woito/ And same covenants in terms of restrictions on pesticides
would continue on the land to protect our water sources ....
This re~'eswnts o~ly a reaso, M~i¥ accurate tr~nscrlptto~ of ~he Iow. City council meeting of August 26, 1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 35
Nov/ And we would protect the access to the water wells ....
Woito/ Access is easement... recreational trail, price went up .....
intrusive ..... appraisals came in very high ....
Baker/
Woito/ In my mind they would be lower. The negotiations changed
when we decided to go for the recreational trail.
Atkins/
Woito/ A more limited use.
Norton/ Very complicated... details I want to ease out in my own
mind .....
Nov/ I have a personal preference for the river trails... be public
property... I would have preferred that we purchased that.
Atkins/ 99 year lease .... end of 100 years .... they will figure
something out ....
Nov/ Go back to the construction schedule, please.
Mullen/ Chuck Schmadeke would like to get in here with his water
line in the fall of '97. He has agreed to put that to the
spring of '98 .... tight for us... we need a full growing
season... If we can move this along this fall and we get some
good weather .... get designers in... get you folks to approve
it... we might be able to get a head start on it .... Might be
able to get Charlie his fall of '97 construction time table
.... Important to us... not interrupting the play .....
Nov/ Do you think you can handle this without interrupting the golf
season?
Mullen/ It is possible, yes.
Vanderhoef/ We can hope for a better growing season.
Mullen/ If we were to go to litigation .... four years .....
Woito/ Another thing that we forgot to mention was the value to the
City of improved water if we get in their earlier and we have
an additional distribution line bringing the raw water from
the upper area .... there is a dollar figure for that .....
Thisrepresents only areaso~M)lyacc~etr~nscripfic. n~ theIowa CiW council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082656
Woito/
Baker/
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session
Baker/ I still don't understand where you say that
figure came from?
The concept. I don't know where the figure came
Nobody knows where the figure came from.
Page 36
is where the
from.
Mullen/ .... We can put a price tag on it ....
Baker/ I am just trying to pin down responsibility for that figure.
Mullen/ I am responsible for it .... got it pinned down for it,
right here.
Norton/ If the City were to terminate Elk's use of the golf
hole .... we lose the well access road lease. Is that correct?
How would we then get to the wells?
Atkins/ Condemn it ....
Woito/ We can always condemn ....
Thornberry/ If we attempt to condemn going in, we could
theoretically be in court for four years and that water line
wouldn't go through their property...
Atkins/ We will get the water line through... matter of what you
are going to pay ....
Mullen/ You can go in and condemn it right now but then you pay ....
Woito/ ...then you pay their attorney fees ....
Mullen/ If you don't have the r.o.w. pinned down... different ball
game.
Woito/ ...It is going to be an expensive way. It is all a matter of
money.
Baker/ We haven't even talked about the environmental concerns...
What is the status of tomorrow night?
Nov/ We are in the Consent Calendar, setting a p.h. on the intent
to convey this property. We are not going to sign an agreement
with numbers on it until after the p.h.
Woito/ Naomi, may I request that you pull that resolution of intent
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingof August26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 37
to convey out of the Consent Calendar. It shouldn't have been
in there. It is not routine.
Nov/ We can do that, yes.
Karr/ What about item #127
Woito/ We will defer-
CHA~NGE TAPE TO REEL 96-94 SIDE 1
Norton/ Can somebody clarify the linkage of the water system? Whose
water is going to be in the swimming pool ultimately?
Mullen/ Ours.
Woito/ We are not buying that. We don't pay for that.
Mullen/ We get to use our existing well as long as we can .... then
we have to hook up to City water.
Atkins/
Nov/ We will hook this up to City sewer system as well?
Atkins/ I am assuming ....
Nov/ Item #12 will be deferred to September 10 and setting p.h .....
Karr/ Delete it from the Consent Calendar and vote it separately
Nov/
Woito/ Are you sending us back to negotiate dollars?
Norton/ I didn't think we had gotten there.
Atkins/ My understanding is the agreement... is still on the table
there for you to deal with ....
Mullen/ Our problem is we need to go get a designer on board and do
it very quickly... we would like some consensus ....
Vanderhoef/ How soon do you take it to the membership?
Mullen/ .....
Thlsrepfese~t$only areaso~ld~yaccuratetra~$crlptlo~tofthelowe City council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 38
Vanderhoef/
Nov/ I am surprised they are designing the holes before you have
the members agreeing...
Mullen/
Council/
Nov/ ...
(All talking).
we cannot give you a firm vote tonight .....
Mullen/ I am looking for some kind of consensus. I don't see one I
guess ....
Nov/ I don't see it either.
Thornberry/ Ernie cannot vote.
Nov/ You are getting questions from the rest of us.
Thornberry/
Nov/ We will have to do a little bit more discussion.
Norton/ I think it is probably coming along ....
Nov/ We are going to take a break.
Thisre~xes~ntsofily a masofi~o4y ~¢ur~e ~anscHp~o4~ theIowa CiH coun~l me~Ing of Augu~ 26,1696.
WS082696
August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 39
Cable Commission Recommendations 96-94 Sl
Nov/ Cable Commission recommendations .... go ahead.
Council/
Dale
Helling/ I sent you some material and memo several weeks ago
just summarizing the recommendations from the BTC on ... PATV
contract and.. use of the pass through funds and support
information as far as the copy of the minutes of the BTC
meeting... I understand you did have some concerns... that is
why we are here. Cordell Jepsen, chair of BTC, and also Eric
Rothenbuhler .... One of the issues apparently that I read...
concern .... I just meant.. if everything was in order to give
us the ability to go ahead and proceed with this because we
have been at it for quite awhile. If you have any questions or
concerns ....
Baker/ ...Why does it cost $42,500 for this position, first year?
Helling/ That is an estimate including the position and benefit ....
allow us if we had to hire somebody with a certain amount of
expertise .... It could be a little less than this .... wages
and benefits as well... health insurance is about $6,000 a
year.
Norton/ I would like to ask .... How did they manage to ... smooth
over the fairly obvious disagreements .... about where
community programming should take place? ..... Explain how it
came to such nice agreement all at once?
Cordell Jepsen/ The way that worked out is that we are a group of
people that eventually get along .... There were a couple of
ways of looking at that. The interest was essentially that
there be production and expertise provided for all of the
access providers and others who were interested to bring about
community programming .... Really a question of whether it
belonged in City or... PATV... where would it be most... We
didn't want to have too many vested interests controlling what
this person did. The advantage for the City... is that they
had a lot of that expertise in place already... facilities...
skill and interest in that regard .... community programming
position originally there years ago... We have the option of
reviewing what this person does...
Norton/ One person is not going to be able to go out .... Do they
have enough other capability .... to actually do the leg
work...?
Thisrepresents only a ressonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 40
Jepsen/ We count on the fact that there is strength from the other
access providers .... cooperation between us .... This person
has to. have production expertise .... give them some
suggestions on how to format the program .... make it look
appealing to people who will watch it .... Work with other
access providers to pull this thing off ....
Baker/ My concern about the cost is that it is almost 50% of the
budget for one position .....
Jepsen/ We agreed... needed to make an investment in personnel with
production expertise .... The rest of that fund would be used
for things like equipment replacement or additions ....
space .... Biggest need that they have is hands on help with
the process of producing community programming ....
Norton/ How are you going to create this new community programming
advisory committee?
Jepsen/ It would start out being made up of those parties who are
interested in providing the service to the community ....
model .... University had ... Video Advisory Committee ....
Video Center... group of faculty advisors... spend their time
on .... Kinds of people who have interest and expertise in
producing programming for the community and others who have
some input...
Norton/ Access Channels... members on that?
Jepsen/ We figure we would start this advisory body with that group
of people .....
Helling/ Since you have received this information, we have met with
representatives from the Access Channels to get this thing
started.
Norton/ ...schools?
Helling/ They were not there... but yes, it does include the
schools.
Norton/ .....
Jepsen/ I personally think that $.50 represents by far the best
value on the whole cable system ....
Vanderhoef/ What do you have you use to base your starting salary
Thlsrepresmtso~ly areaso, ably accurate ~an$crlpfionofthelowa Cl~ council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 41
at?
Jepsen/
Helling/ We have production staff people now and we looked at this
position and tried to compare where it might fall based on the
duties .... fell in a range... reviewed after a period of six
months...
Vanderhoef/
Helling/ Depends on who is available ....
them at the lowest step .....
comparison ....
sometimes you can't hire
started in house ....
Baker/ .... local government... what does the school district do
now? How is that financed? ....
Jepsen/ They have some sources of funds that the rest of those
access providers don't.
Helling/ They also contract with Kirkwood which programs that
channel for a large portion of time. There is not a lot of
local production by the school .... School board meetings ....
Jepsen/ There is some interest in changing that ....
Baker/ Is the school district interested in having funding? ....
Jepsen/ They have some interest in obtaining funding ... for some
equipment things ....
Baker/ Can they contribute in anyway...?
Helling/ They don't... discussions we have had... they do have some
resources... train students to do productions .... Down the
line, if we work together ....
Jepsen/ Senior Center has a lot of interest in this ....
Norton/
Thornberry/ I think there are way way too many channels
available...
Helling/ Five local access channels. Only one of them is available
for public production ....
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 42
Thornberry/ I think there can be some consolidation there.
Helling/ We have talked about that...
Jepsen/ We have talking about ways of producing these programs
without regard to channel boundary .... Greatest option...
cooperation is this community programming approach.
Baker/ Complaints .... public access .... substance .... is the
qu~y. Can we expect to see that improved?
Jepsen/ Yes, that is specifically we wanted production expertise
.... Some quality into it... emphasize the importance of a
production skill rather than just a technical grip type skill.
Norton/ Can I ask about the Community Programming Center? .... You
are talking about 5,000 square feet .... sharing facilities ....
You wanted to acquire it without leasing it .... timing .... up
front costs?
Jepsen/
Helling/ We are talking about putting money aside for a fund for
that purpose. We may wind up having to lease .... library's
proposal .... This would not fund it totally .... other
money .... Drew's... equity into that space... we would expect
that the City of Iowa City would reimburse that enterprise
fund to the value of that square footage ..... Until we have
some space to look at, we don't really know.
Norton/ Did you look at the Senior Center, too?
Jepsen/ It hasn't come up in our discussions, no.
Helling/ In the past there have been discussion about other things
at the Senior Center and it hasn't worked out.
Thornberry/ .... offices upstairs. Does the City... $125,0007
Helling/ We contributed about $125,000 to the construction of that
new wing out of the Cable Enterprise Fund ....
Thornberry/ .... If they were to leave, we could put something else
in there.
Atkins/ The financing plan .... at time we were building a
building .... was that if you were an enterprise fund such as
Thlsre~'esent$o~lyare~o~d~yaccu~atetra~tcr~tlo.~ ~elowa CI~ counc# mea~ngofAugust26,1956,
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 43
cable was .... we would charge their fair share .... we owe them
that money ....
Vanderhoef/ Tell me about the space at the library then.
Arkins/ The library is a General Fund expenditure .... If PATV were
to move out the library would simply expand that .... there
would be no money owed ....
Helling/ There is a current agreement between PATV and the library
that has been in affect since the library was constructed ....
in kind deal .... Public Access gets the space and they provide
production in exchange for that rather than money.
Thornberry/
Arkins/
Nov/ Okay, any other questions? Thank you.
Norton/ Good work ....
Jepsen/
Helling/ We will have two resolutions for you next time. One
approving the position and the other one to approve the PATV
agreement.
T~$representsmily are~o~eidyaccw~e Uimscr~pfio~of ~elowa Ciw council meeting of August 26,1996.
W$082696
August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 44
Water Impact Fees 96-94 Sl
Atkins/ We have a memo prepared by Chuck and... Linda
packet. I would like to take a couple of minutes ....
in your
Baker/ Suggest... there is no real hurry on this, is there?
Arkins/ No, other than your interests.
Baker/ I would suggest that we wait until we get seven people
back .... Karen has strong feelings about this.
Nov/ I know Karen has strong feelings in favor of this. I want to
know are there three other people who have strong feelings in
favor of this and that is the purpose of this. We are not
going to decide one way or another .... Here is more
information. Do we now have four people who want to do this?
Atkins/ The biggest issue for us is that if you say go, it is a
great deal of work to prepare a draft of the ordinance ....
Let's get the philosophy in place and then we can fashion an
ordinance around it .... We are ready to go anytime you want to
go on this issue.
Norton/
Nov/ Before we get to the point of writing an ordinance, do we have
people who agree what this is a philosophically proper way to
handle this topic? Does it really mean that we want to do
this? .....
Norton/ When do you want us to express our philosophical
inclination?
Nov/ I was hoping we would get some philosophical discussion
tonight.
Baker/ My question, page 3 .... who do you want to pay for this .....
You don't expect us to answer those questions tonight?
Woito/ Yes, the first one we need an answer.
Atkins/ If you want to do this, at the very least... that first
question-
Woito/ The first question is it ....
Atkins/ But I want to explain to you what excess capacity is. I
This represe~tta o~ly a raaso~a~y accurate tra~scrlptlo~ of the iowa City co~mc~l meeting of August 26, 1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 45
want that thought process to be and then we know that legally
we can do this. It is a question of what do you want done.
Baker/ We also know that other communities have done it.
Arkins/ ...question is, is this right for our community.
Nov/ There was a recent revision in the state law .... I told Linda
I had read it. It basically says yes, you are allowed to do
this.
Woito/ But it is based on equity so it's the same ball and line
analysis that you've got in here.
Nov/ It wasn't very detailed.
Woito/ It just says that you can charge a connection fee but it has
to be equitable.
Atkins/ I just need a couple of minutes to set the stage and then
you can decide where you want to go. First of all, I want to
review with you the issues of excess capacity, actually what
excess capacity is. It is more, many of these are my
judgements and I think I'll be explaining those to you in a
moment, then simply growth in the systems and customers. There
are a number of contingencies that are built into excess
capacity. Chuck's memo outlines those and I'm going to go over
those in a moment. Secondly, It's important when you're
thinking about excess capacity to understand the nature of our
town. We have in our town in our community a substantial
competing and yet complimentary water system. And to that end
it's both good and bad, the University. We have a very
positive relationship with them. They have chosen not to
expand their system. They've also chosen not to participate in
ours and that's all well and good. However, we do have
significant exposure on our relationship with them. That is
the University water system provides water to the University
Hospital. If they go down, they have an expectation I think
rightfully so that we will be right back up there to back them
up. That's a lot of production capacity that you have to built
in to your system. Then the other thing about the growth.
Nov/ And this is a vice versa situation where when we had water
problems, they did help us.
Atkins/ Yes. When we went down, but I wanted to point out kind of
the unique exposure. That is yet a major medical center that
Thisrepres~t$o~ly are~o~ai~yaccuratetransc..HpUmtofthalowa CI%,council m~ting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 46
is being supplied water outside of your control, another
competing system who's chosen not to ..... Oh well, all those
circumstances. And then also when you measure the growth issue
is that it has to be-I think you have to consider the economic
benefits of having capacity within your system and that is
having it available ..... It allows you to respond to that. The
excess capacity... is also standby .... Chuck's memo... We
could have two major fires occurring simultaneously .... major
equipment breakdown, power outages .... The other factor .....
bottom line is of our 16.7 million gallon capacity, we assume
we have within there about 2 million gallons in daily
production capacity reserve for what you might want to call
growth .... You have to decide who you are going to charge for
that excess capacity .... who is going to pay for it... Three
elements to a water system: source, distribution and
treatment. The source is free ..... distribution system.. and
then the treatment process. Of this 2.1 million gallon
capacity, we can calculate is a capital cost .... Which
portion, if any of that, do you wish to recover and then how
do you want to go about it ..... Rough proportionality is the
new law and it says the burden created by the property owner's
development. You cannot impose it completely as part of your
growth ....
Woito/ It can't be 100% against new growth.
Atkins/ You have to work on that also.
Baker/
Atkins/ Rough proportionality ..... It is the need or burden created
by property owner's development but it cannot be imposed
completely on new growth. Legal obligation.
Woito/ It is a legal restriction. The rough proportionality is a
legal restriction on the U.S. Supreme Court .... There is an
Iowa case .... rural system .... switch from septic tanks to a
rural sanitary sewer system and the people who were already
there, the folks in the community gave them a break and only
charged them $50 to hook onto the sanitary sewer system even
though the current septic system was worth nothing to the new
system and the newcomers, the ones who were coming on line for
the first time had to pay $1500 to hook up and the Iowa
Supreme Court said that there was no good reason to that
except they were going to ding the newcomers 100%. That was
irrational and they through it out.
Thisrepresents only ereesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of August 26,199~..
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 47
Thornberry/ What do they call 100%?
Woito/ If you were to try and assess this 213 million a day peak
day capacity totally to newcomers ..... people coming to the
community for new service, we can't collect all that capital
cost from the newcomers ..... assign 1/3 of it to current
users .... 1/3 to future users and 1/3 to impact fee
connection. New growth ....
Thornberry/ 49% of the people that are buying new houses in Iowa
City are already Iowa City residents ...... you get dinged
another 1/3
Woito/ You have to answer that question in terms of is that what
you want to do.
Atkins/ We went through every imaginable gyration .... I have lived
in this town all of my life... I choose to build a new
house... You are going to ding me again... You are creating a
new demand on the system .....
Woito/ More bathtubs, more faucets, more toilets ....
Atkins/ We could not settle in on who should actually pay.
Norton/ ..... for an increase over what you have.
Norton/ Why was the logic only applied to water? Does it apply to
the sewer connection system? ....
Woito/ We have ..... passed a site specific sanitary sewer tap on
fee. We pass enabling legislation to permit it in 1991. We
have one out in the Walnut Ridge area but that is easy because
you take a finite area of land which drains a finite amount of
acreage and when you install the sanitary sewer project, Iowa
law permits you to take that bottom line figure ...... and then
you divide it all by the benefited area of land per acre.
Norton/
Woito/ Lift station doesn't matter. It is the area served which is
calculated by the water shed by acreage which can translate
into acreage per or cost per acre.
Nov/ Because the City put in lines to that property and recouped
what we had spent ....
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 48
Woito/ They are not analogous because in this case we are building
an entirely new plant in addition to the distribution
system .... This we are having a new treatment system and we
are extending the distribution lines and the raw water lines.
Norton/ What about the South Treatment Plant .... when it gets
expanded the next time? Wouldn't it apply to that? ....
Woito/ If you want to talk about an impact fee for that, that is a
different analysis.
Norton/ Where does this end .... parks... widening the street? Where
in the hell does this end?
Nov/ That is the philosophy that we are talking about.
Norton/
Atkins/ You have enjoyed the benefit for many years of our
predecessors decisions on that water plant and now it has come
home and we have to build a new one... And we are going to
have to pay for it.
woito/
Thornberry/ I have a question about the impact fee. Is this a one
time fee? .....
Atkins/ The inclination was it would be some sort of one time
charge .....
Woito/ One time connection fee to have access to the system .....
has to have a finite .... period of time... each year it has to
go up... specifications of the law .... to make it fair.
Nov/ ...new to town,.. new user and therefore you pay that fee ....
You can do this kind of thing in anyway you design it.
Thornberry/ Oh let's make this the most expensive town to live in
in the world.
Woito/ It could be based on a new account.
Baker/ Somebody is going to pay for it regardless .....
Norton/ What are the points of spreading out the costs of the large
capital investment .... you pick up some debt service... to
This represents only ereasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of August26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session
spread it over more generations ....
spread it out ..... If you charge
ratepayers should have a decrease ....
Woito/ They should, yes.
Nov/
Norton/
Arkins/
I still
impact
Page 49
feel we should
fee... current
You might get more support for this...
The more water we produce, the cheaper it is .....
Thornberry/ You got it... that is my argument...
that move into Iowa City, the more companies
here, the cheaper the water is going to get,
gallon.
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ We already have some flexibility here in meters.
Arkins/ Charge different rates .... We have a distribution charge
also, so much per acre ....
The more people
that come in
less cost per
the size of the
Vanderhoef/ I, for one, am not interested in this.
Nov/
Baker/ The $2.1 million...growth capacity?
Atkins/ 2.1 million gallons per day.
Nov/ Gallons per day.
Baker/ You have built in that capacity to accommodate what you
perceive as growth ....
Atkins/ As long as you understand the term excess and standby ....
Public safety responsibilities... I want to be able to say to
my Fire Department .....
Baker/ ....
Atkins/ For future users, we estimate that ....
Baker/ Building that 2.1 million gallon capacity in the plant costs
Thlere~'esents~ly areMo~yaccuratetr~n$criptio~ofthelowa CI~ council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 50
X number of dollars.
Woito/ $3.25 million, page 2.
Baker/ What is the difference between... new growth and future
water users? .... 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 on page 2.
Woito/ Nothing.
Atkins/ It is the same thing except she has carved up users into
three pieces.
Woito/ I just interchanged the same thing Larry.
Arkins/
Baker/ I still don't understand .....
Woito/ Future water users are people who come on line and pay your
water bill every month.
Nov/ It may not represent new growth. They may move into a current
resident.
Woito/ It is the source of the revenue ....
Baker/ My impression.. of previous council... concerned with the
growth capacity built into the new water plant.
Atkins/ We also settled in the fact that the 16.7 was too big, it
should be smaller ..... felt this was a reasonable number ....
16.7... can't reduce it to 16.5. There are some incremental
drops that occur because of the equipment that you actually
put in the building .....
Baker/ $3.5 million.. account for anticipated growth... Logic of
previous majority... figure for new growth .... a certain
portion of it should be recouped by the process of an impact
fee .....
Atkins/ That excess capacity allows for new business or industry to
locate which create new job opportunities ....
Baker/ This seems to be a much more quantifiable cost .... some
portion of that should be justifiably recouped through an
impact fee .... Philosophically I have no problems accepting
that premise. How much is a pragmatic question.
This ro~esent$ o~ly a reasonably occureta trofiscrlptl(~ of the iowa City council meeting of August 26, 1996.
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page §1
Norton/ I would think impact fees would 9yramid each time a capital
improvement is done .....
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-94 SIDE 2
Atkins/ Each time we would add something in the form of cagital to
the water treatment plant-
Norton/
Woito/ Yes, you would have layers.
Council/ (All talking).
Woito/ ...schedules in there for that very thing ....
Nov/
Woito/
Baker/ Other communities that are doing this, do they have a
dif£~£ent philosophical Justification for this?
Woito/ No.
Atkins/ They can't have because the new law pretty well says here
is what you can do ....
Baker/ They have to take into account, as well, the consequences of
the impact fee .....
Arkins/ You did this somewhat .... Let's say you want to settle on
I want to recover $1 million .... from new growth .... We have
to define that ....
Nov/ Is my water bill going down 20% if I decide to recoup $1
million?
No.
Woito/
Nov/
Baker/
In the long run you will either stabilize or decrease
minimally rates ....
Atkins/ When you are all done with your capital expense ..... big
borrowing .... at some point out there .... you should be able
Thlsreprese~tso~ly a reaso~dolyaccurate ~ans~ipfio~of ~elowa CIW coun~l meeting of August26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session
to change your rate structure ....
Thornberry/ ... have to decide how long or length of
Woito/
Nov/ You have to say ten years ....
Thornberry/
Norton/ ... You will have impact fee 2A .....
Thornberry/ You will have sub A. because one will be gone...
Lehman/ .... I don't think there is going to be an impact
Thornberry/ I certainly hope not.
Vanderhoef/ I think we can close this one off.
Woito/ Do I have five no?
Norton/ I am not there yet .....
Nov/ After having read all of this, I do not see it as being
practical ..... Portland, Oregon... they have a regional water
system .... This is not going to make sense... I would go
along with Dee Norton's co~ents on taking the future rate
payers into our calculations and decreasing the rates a little
bit for the current rate payers and spreading it out a little
bit more ....
Page 52
time ....
fee.
Atkins/ If you want =hat brought back to...
packaging and bring it back to you ....
Nov/ It does give us a way to say future
responsibility ....
Woito/ ... You don't need my advice on that.
Council/ (All talking).
Norton/ Right now, I am not ready.
Atkins/ On cash accumulation,
know what you want.
Don needs to do some
users ...accept more
you will think about that and let us
Thlsre~'esentso~ly a mMo~abiyaccurme ~a~$cdptlo~ofthelowe CIW council meeting of August 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996
Nov/ There is just
Vanderhoef/ We can
setting.
Council Work Session Page 53
two of US. I don't hear anymore.
talk about that when we talk about our goal
Norton/When you build a school .... excess capacity...school impact
fee ....
Arkins/ In a previous town that I served, we had school impact
fees ..... We do reserve sites... schools are financed by
debt .... My daughter went to a 40 year old school... We are
paying for Weber ....
Norton/ That is what is called community.
NOV/ ....
Council/ (All talking).
Woito/ I don't think there is anything else legal upon this.
Nov/
This refitcarats o~ly a raaconaVy accurate tranacdptlo~ of the Iowa City council mssting of August 26, 1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 54
Downtown 21 96-94 S2
Nov/ Downtown 21. Can we do this quickly?
Atkins/ This was put on the agenda at your request.
Nov/
Norton/ What I am mainly concerned about is getting some kind of
handle on the process ..... I want to hear your thoughts about
a central steering group of some kind.
Atkins/ We have drafted somewhat of a d.t. strategy .... We are kind
of packaging this together to give you outline of here is the
issues... attacking the problem... trying to give it some
focus for you.
Norton/ Does that include...advisory committee?
Atkins/ I will get you something on that, Dee ..... You want some
kind of group of committee that will give some focus to this.
Norton/ That will represent various elements but will have some
serious responsibility about formulated this vision.
Atkins/ We will get you something to chew on ..... Goal setting
session .... If you wanted some sort of a brainstorming bull
session on d.t, that is okay, too .... We can record all of
your ideas for you ....
Nov/ We could set aside an hour of that five hours .....
Lehman/ I really feel it would be wise to do this hour thing .....
Atkins/ .... I talked to almost all of you about this thing ....
divergence of opinions .... We want some comprehensive
vision .... number of things that we would like to do .... need
to, amongst yourselves, to hear collectively what I am hearing
individually.
Norton/ We also want this vision to grow out of the people that are
down there.
Atkins/ One of the parts of the vision is just that. This cannot be
simply a City government... can't do it alone .... I am
prepared to do that for you... If you would like to block out
a piece of time for that session on the 4th and just call it
d.t. strategizing ....
Thisrepresents only aroasonab[¥eccuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofAugust26,1996.
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August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Vanderhoef/ I think that is a perfect place to
Norton/
Page 55
do it.
Arkins/ Some of the content will be some of the groups .... We have
made a list of projects in house ....
Baker/ One of the things .... difference between immediate concerns
and long term vision .... Three of us wanted to suggest that
cleaning, maintenance and security are immediate concerns
regardless of what happens .... We want you to get back to us
with very specific proposals ....
Atkins/
Baker/ Talking about personnel... equipment...
Arkins/ I think you need to tell me those things.
Baker/ We are not going to wait for a year to get a vision to get
those things solved.
Norton/ Process, short term, longer term ....
Atkins/
Baker/ Implies that we were looking at personnel and equipment and
we want that incorporated into the next budget.
Lehman/ ... need to show a commitment on the part of this City to
maintenance to d.t .....
Nov/ Also have to get cooperation of d.t. shop keepers ....
Atkins/ ...Simply block off a period of time and say... d.t.
strategy.
Norton/ Where are my pictures?
Arkins/ They were being duplicated .....
Norton/ I want to see the banners ....
I found them ....
Green machine ....
Council/ (All talking).
Baker/ ... something about graffiti... Let me give you a
suggestion... other communities .... similar to our lawn
Thlsre~xesentsofily areasonabiyaccuratetra~scrlptlofiof ~olowa CI~ council meeting of AU~llt 26,1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 56
cutting ordinance .... You get 48 hours to get your graffiti
off or we will do it and charge you.
Arkins/ Wednesday at 12:30, Chauncey Swan Ramp... old graffiti...
testing new products ....
Baker/
Nov/ Jaycees has a volunteer group that will do private property.
Vanderhoef/ Also a product... used on a d.t. building that sealed
it ..... all you had to do is take a hose and it washed off ....
I can put you in tough with people who put it on their
building ....
Council/ (All talking).
Arkins/ I will put together the information on the d.t. strategy
.... session ....
Norton/
Venderhoer/ Graffiti that is consistently on the abutments for the
Crandic on Iowa Avenue .....
Atkins/ It is the railroads responsibility.
Vanderhoef/ .... clean it off and bill them ..... This is truly an
entryway into our City ....
Nov/... do the one on Rocky Shore also.
Arkins/ All right, understood ....
ThlsrelXese~t$o~ly areaso~ablyaccuf~e ~ans~o~thelowa CIH councilmeeting of August 26,1996.
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 57
ReGional Solid Waste Mana~emen~ Planning Committee 96-94 S2
Atkine/ We have a list of names, we need to have it for ECCOG, are
they okay with you. If they are okay with you, I would like to
have your bleesing and Brad can go to work.
Nov/ Has Brad been sitting here this whole time? ....
Norton/ Wait a minute ....
Vanderhoef/ I wondered if you wanted that big of committee.
Atkins/ Pretty much the same faces.
Nov/ Very much the same people and why not? Yes, go ahead.
Thl;refiresentso~ly ereasonabtyaccur~e ~$crlptio~ofthelowa City counclimeefing of August 26,1996.
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August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 58
ADDointments 96-94 S2
HCDC: Cynthia Larson
Kathleen Renquist
William Stewart
This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 26, 1996.
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 59
Council Meeting Schedule 96-94 S2
Nov/ We are going back to meeting schedule ....
Karr/ I just wanted to report that I did hear from the Library
today and there will not be seven people who will be able to
attend if we hold it on the 17th. We will be short one person.
Thornberry/ Good. Who?
Karr/ Chuck Traw.
Nov/ I think Chuck Traw should be there.
Karr/ Out of all the other dates that I gave you, none of them can
make it any of those dates. So we are into November. They
aren't all Chuck but there is none of them that they can all
be here for.
Nov/ ... We could get Chuck on another date?
Norton/ Name a date then.
Karr/ October 1 you could have Chuck.
Nov/ Is there a large number of people? ....
Karr/ There would be at least two people absent if not three on all
the other dates ..... On the 1st you would be missing Martin
and Swaim. On 2nd, you would be missing Martin, Swaim, and
Singerman.
Lehman/ It is getting better.
Karr/ On 29th you would be missing Greenleaf. Hubbard and
Singerman.
Nov/ 30th of September?
Karr/ You cannot get Chuck Swaim or Singerman.
Baker/ 17th?
Karr/ He is in court that day .... He is in Cedar Rapids in
court ....
Lehman/ Forget the whole thing ..... Can we find a time that Chuck
and Naomi can meet and just the two of them do it?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of August 26, 1996.
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 60
Nov/ Let's try to do it with as many people as possible ..... 17th.
Karr/ He will make every attempt but he will make no promises .....
He was not optimistic ..... Next available date that he can be
here would be October 1 .... All of the days .... I gave all of
them ....
Norton/
Karr/ We didn't find any September days .... Problem is complicated
by the fact you got the Iowa League of Cities meeting on an
off week, 18th, 19th and 20th.
Council/ (Discusses meeting schedule).
Karr/ 9:00 to 1:00 on the 21st?
Nov/ 9:00 to 12:00 or 8:00 to 12:00.
Karr/ September 21, 9:00 to noon? .... I will see if they can do it
the 21st. I will double check the kick off time ..... So I
will check September 21.
This re~xeeents rely a raa~o~at~y accurata tra~ec~lptlo~ of the Iowa City covndl meeting of August 26, 1996.
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August 26, 1996
Council Work Session
Page 61
Council Agenda/Time 96-94 S2
1. Norton/ Are we getting straightened out on SEATS application. I
have got a number of calls. Are our low income guidelines
okay? ..... Are we doing something wrong here.
Nov/ Jean Mann is working on this.
Norton/
Arkins/ .... Put together new rules and we are enforcing the rules.
Nov/ There are people who do not understand the application. Jean
Mann and I are going to work on an application that is easier
to understand.
Arkins/ I would give it another week to ten days ....
some folks involved.
We have got
2. Norton/ Did somebody find out about the dust on Coll Drive. They
were filling dirt there behind those houses on Coll Drive ....
blowing dust all over everybody.
Atkins/ I will check for you tomorrow.
Norton/ I am mildly worried about an earlier concern we had
about industrial sites. Are we getting anywhere? You wrote us
a memo about it. I was curious about if we were still hung up.
Arkins/ We are talking about Streb... Bob Downer .... It is trying
to keep active .... Mid America ....
Norton/ The particular prospect... try to accommodate ....
4. Norton/ Are we expected to respond somehow to the HIS study.
Arkins/ .... They have some very good ideas.
Norton/ I have had a couple of calls from people that are
involved with exotic animals and I understand that we have an
ordinance being drafted about exotic animals and I have got
the snake lovers around my neck ..... Is there an advisory
committee for the animal control people? .....
Atkins/ We have an advisory committee .... I will check for you.
Karr/ They did come out with a recommendation and you will be
setting the p.h. the 10th of September.
This relxes~nts o~ly a reasouably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 26, 1996.
WS082696
August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 62
Thornberry/
Norton/ I had a vet and some others ....
inconsistencies they pointed out to me but
up later.
Nov/ Let's wait until we see the ordinance.
There were some
I will bring them
6. Nov/ I am going to send around a bunch of things that came to me
in the mail just in case somebody else is interested. If
anyone is interested, put your name on it and I will copy that
particular whatever for you ..... Take a look at it and pass it
on.
7. Thornberry/ The only thing... for tonight .... I think as a
council we need to talk about... 4-plexes on trash pick up.
back to you. I think that is a
Atkins/ We have to bring that
legitimate issue.
Thornberry/ 4-plexes for trash...
City, private or should they have
think we need to visit that.
an option. I
Atkins/ We have some draft work...
Thornberry/ On 4-
8. Vanderhoef/
divergent opinions ....
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-95 SIDE 1
and working on a safety issue for the
Vanderhoef/ On getting out
bank at Hwy 6 and Keokuk because they had two accidents right
away in one day.
Atkins/ Oh, Iowa State Bank.
Norton/ The drive in out there?
Vanderhoef/ Yeah. Because at the entrance and exit and it gets
stuck and he is going to get back to him but Lori Lacina-
Atkins/ Did you say something to Jim about it? Did she say anything
about it?
Vanderhoef/ She hadn't. She mentioned it to me at the CVB this
week. So that was nice.
Thlsre~'esentso~lyarea~onMdyaccuratetranscHp~o~ofthelow= CIH council meet~gofAug~st26,1996.
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session Page 63
9. Vanderhoef/ I am not real pleased when I hear that we are
selling one cigarette at a time but-
Arkins/ I figured you ought to know about that one.
Vandsrhoef/ Yeah.
Norton/ Oh, the note from the policeman.
10. Vanderhoef/ I had had a call about First Avenue and the street
and they were out there and they have already been working on
those.
Arkins/ That Fourth Avenue intersection?
Vanderhoef/ No, the First Avenue culvert and stuff by- We have got
some real problems with deterioration of the roads and I had
another call and I wish they would take a good look at Post
Road.
Atkins/ Post and?
Vanderhoef/ It is between Tudor and Main and Washington or
Princeton.
Norton/ Just go out past the First Avenue HyVee and turn left.
Vanderhoef/ There are sections that are floated I would guess four
inches. It is bad. Your snow plows are going to be in real
trouble when they get those (can't hear).
Arkins/ I will check on it, Post Road.
Vanderhoef/ Yes. That whole section. If they are out there looking,
the area that is immediately east of First Avenue, that is the
area that is-
Atkins/ Runs parallel to Post Road.
Vanderhoef/ All of this area, those first or two or three streets
east of First Avenue are in that 30-35 year time span and you
know, like my street, I have got grass growing up everywhere
on Tudor and Mayfield and- See where the grass is growing.
11. Lehman/ On this intersection on Gilbert and Burlington, is that
going to be ground down?
Thisrepresents only area$onebly eccuretetrenscdption ofthelowe City council meeting of August26,1996.
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session
Arkins/ Right now (can't hear).
Norton/ There is a little bit of wawiness there.
12. Lehman/ .... like to talk about the report we got from
sounds like to me they have made some progress ....
Norton /...a lot of issues there.
Arkins/ Do you want that on for future discussion?...
Lehman/ I will just put it on the back burner for now.
folks continue talking to each
Page 64
HIS...
I would love
other ....
to see those
positive...
Arkins/
Norton/ The set of comments, had those been looked at and
incorporated in the committee report?
Arkins/ ...it did not get incorporated ....
Lehman/
Norton/ I thought they hammered out some important issues.
Atkins/ It was intended to be here we are-
Lehman/
13. Nov/ I am passing this over to Steve. It is a city that has
special parking permits for people with young children ....
under two it says ....
14. Norton/ What happened to the lady who said she was charged
$60... for SEATS? ....
Arkins/ I thought we prepared an answer for her.
Nov/
No, I did speak to her. She called me .... She was convinced
that she had had a legal opinion that we were not in
compliance... I called Ron... check with Federal Transit
Authority to make sure we are in compliance. He did check.
They told him yes, we are in compliance... we are not
obligated to have a monthly pass for para-transit riders. I
called her back .... she accepted that in the telephone
conversation.
Thisrepresents of fly a reaso~a~yaccufme tr~nscrlpfionofthelowe CIW council meeting of August 26,1996,
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August 26, 1996 Council Work Session
1§. Norton/ The other one was fraternity noise ....
Arkins/ ... there is no 100 parties ....
16. Vanderhoef/ What about this condo association..
put a hold on collecting the fees where they
because it is mixed use .... And requiring these
private residences and all of that stuff. I
check that out. There is some elderly ladies
are having-
Arkins/ ...I will check for you.
Nov/
Vanderhoef/
Nov/ This is basically a rental inspection but
renters, they owned it.
Adjourned: 11:25 PM
Page 65
inspecting..
are building
stairways in
would like to
out there that
they weren't
This re~'esacts ofily · roas~a~iy accurate tranecdptlofi of the lows City council meetJell of August 26, 1996.
WS092696