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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-09-23 TranscriptionSeptember 23, 1996 Council Work Session page September 23, 1996 Council Work Session 8:00 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Arkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Mitchell, Davidson, O'Neil, Craig, Schoon, Fowler, Strand, Goodman. Tapes: 96-109, all; 96-110, all; 96-111, Side 1. Review Zoning Matters 96-109 SI a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for October 8 on a resolution approving the City-initiated annexation of an approximate five-acre tract located west of Dubuque Street and south of the Iowa River. (ANN96-0002) Franklin/The first two items are setting p.h. for October 8 on the annexation and zoning of a five acre parcel .....in the water plm~t site on the Butler Farm. b. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for October 8 on an ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing the use regulations of an approximate five-acre tract, located west of Dubuque Street and south of the Iowa River, from County RS, Suburban Residential, to P, Public. (REZ96- 0016) c. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by amending the Conditional Zoning Agreement for WestPort Plaza to eliminate the requirement for a "cohesive, integrated development," and to remove the requirement for the facades of the buildings to provide "horizontal continuity," for property located in the CC-2, Community Commercial zone at 855 Highway I West. (Second consideration) (REZ96-0010) Franklin/... We do have a letter requesting expedited consideration from the applicant. Norton/... they delayed it for six weeks or more.... now we are suppose to hurry. Nov/The construction season ..... d. Consider an ordinance vacating the portion of St. Matthies' Street (formerly known es St. Matthies' Alley), fight-of-way located north of Dodge St and St. John's Alley, located between St Clement's Street and St. Matthies' St. (VAC94-0004) (First consideration) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 2 Franklin/First consideration of an ordinance... vacation of the alleys for Robert's Dairy. This is the one that you can go ahead with first and second consideration but we will hold on pass and adopt until we have some more information about the conveyance and how that whole exchange with the r.o.w. on Dodge Street is going to occur. Kubby/You mean in terms of trading alley space ..... Franklin/We want to wait tmtil the appraisal is done .... Nonon/ Franklin/This you go ahead, second you go ahead but don't wave a reading and pass and adopt. Norton/ Franklin/The Davis letter is relevant to this item. We had planned all along not to finish the vacation until the disposition was a little bit clearer .... Kubby/What is the time frame for that? ..... Franklin/The appraisal .... e. Consider an ordinance vacating a portion of Lee Street, an undeveloped right-of-way located between River Street and Otto Street. (VAC96-0001) (Second consideration) Franklin/Second consideration on the vacation portion of Lee Street. f. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article H, entitled "Industrial Zones," Section I, entitled "General Industrial Zone (I- 1)" to add a special exception to allow limited retail sales in the I-1 zone. (Second consideration) Franklin/Second consideration on retail and industrial zones. Nov/Are we holding up Lee Street waiting for the appraisal? Franklin/No ..... different circumstance. Robert's Dairy there is definite use of that property by the dairy. We want to be assured that everything works out... such that that property is disposed of to the Dairy as opposed to it continuing to be city owned property and used by a private entity. I don't think we have that same concern with the Lee Street .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Septem bet 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 3 Nov/ Franklin / Their use of Lee Street, too, was very minimal .....Then we have got the second consideration on retafi and industrial. g Consider a resolution approving a final plat o£ Galway Hills, Part Three, a 21.29 acre, 53-~ot residential subdivision located south of G-alway Drive and east o£Highway 218, Iowa City, Iowa. (SUB96-0014) Franklin/I understand, Dennis, that we are suppose to defer this again7 Mitchell/I am not familiar with that project. Franklin/Are we having the e.s. tomorrow on it? Arkins/Yes. Franklin/Linda has been handling this one ......Unless you hear otherwise, defer this tomorrow night. Karr/1 think it will be explained in e.s. and there would be one scenario that they could proceed. Franklin/Okay h. Consider a resolution approving the extraterritorial final plat of Woodland Ridge, Part One, a 55.95 acre, 19-1or residential subdivision located east of Dane Road at its intersection with Osage Street in Johnson County. (SUB96- 0017) Franklin/The last item is a final plat for Woodland Ridge, Pm-t 1, which is the 19 lot residential subdivision that is down south of town offof Dane Road..... Everything is ready to go. Nov/Karin, what is a extraterritorial final plat? Franklin/It is to indicate that it is in Johnson County ...... Nov/So we don't need extraterritorial final plat? Franklin/1 don't know. Nov/It really isn't a modifier of the final plat, it is a modifier of the subdivision. Tiffs represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 4 Franklin/If there is not concern about the consistency between the item and the resolution, we don't need extraterritorial. Nov/I will check the resolution. Go ahead, move on. Vanderhoef/How is this being served? Franklin/Septic. Vanderhoef/Does it have all of the infrastructure already in place.'? Franklin/No, it is not in the growth area. .... Kubby/Has it been decided what kind of unconventional system? ..... Could that change how the plat is laid out depending on what kind of system they use? Franklin/If it does, they will have to come back and do an amended plat .....I can't answer that. I will t~y to find out for tomorrow. Nov/The resolution does say extraterritorial. That is the first time I have ever seen that one Norton/Is this all clear about annexation and that outlot? ...... Franklin/It is in the fringe but it is not within our gmurth area. We don't contemplate annexation of this property. The growth area is north of it. Norton/But just fight up to it, I think. Franklin/There is always a line. Topographically it would not be an area that we could serve by gravity feed ..... The growth area is approximately a 20 year planning time frame ...... Norton/We were requesting some changes. There was a big outlot to the east ..... Franklin/We suggested... there was a concern .... be developed from some kind of connector road from the north as opposed to having a very long cul de sac going in ..... Norton/.... What we said doesn't have any leverage on anybody, does it? Franklin/When that outlot is further subdivided, we will review it .... When it comes back, that should be considered since the city has equal authority with the county to approve the plats. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Sepfember 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 5 Airuort Hammr Project 96-109 SI Nov/...Ron O'Neil. Howard Horan/From the Airport Commission. I think you all got the information. We have a new opportunity for a commercial hangar. Norton/What information did we get? I don't think I got it ..... Nov/Here, it is this .....#11 is the resolution... on the agenda. Hotart/This is a new opportunity ..... We are asking for your approval to go for plans and specs on this 80 by 80 hangar so that we know how to set the rents specifically Baker/.... have a contractor in before we- lloran/Yes. Baker/Take 100% of the space? Horan/That is our understanding at this point. Baker/Was there some discussion ..... why not build a bigger one now? Horan/I think it has to do with their overall needs, how much money they have. Baker/.... Why not build a larger hangar? Hotart/This opportunity really has to do with one business and we don't think there should be a lot of sharing going on ..... Baked ..divider arrangement. Norton/...thought there was a proposal for a space that might be occupied by more than one user. Horan/There was. That went down a river. Thornberry/This is an avionics shop ..... HoraW Airplanes would fly in and get service and fly out. Baker/What sort of multi-year contract are you trying to get? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 6 Horan/We need to get it so it is pretty well paid for .....12-15 years.... I think they are realistic about it ..... Baker/... Horan/I think this is about the right size. Lelunan/Is it the sort of building that could be added onto? Hotart/In terms of aviation use, that really has to do on how we plan to use the apron and the cement ..... Nov/...one time you were going to have office space on this hangar ..... 80 foot square plus 20 X 20 for office space.... Why are you not planning on office space now? .... Horan/Aircraft hangar will be 80 X 80 with a 60 foot bi-fold door and 20 X 20 office. Thomberry/That is an office for the avionics use ..... On the original building that was proposed several months ago, there was a large office area.... Is that still needed? Hotart/No, that structure .... Nov/The resolution that we have in the packet says construction of a 80 X 80 foot aircra,9 hangar, period. It does not say office space and that is why I am asking. Horarff In the comment it does. Does that mean we should amend the resolution? Kubby/We could ask for the resolution to be amended to include office space ifthat is what the intent is. It should be clear. Nov/That is what I am trying to clari~ .... Hotart/Sure with a 60 foot bi-fold door. Nov/We will get somebody to amend t}fis tomorrow and it will be right when we vote on it. Kubby/Can this space in the future be rehabbed or reconfigured to be used as a corporate hangar? Horan/Yes. Thornberry/This company... startup company.... Cedar Rapids does not have any avionics place ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 7 Norton/Is the office in the 80 X 80? .... Horan/It is additional ..... Kubby/I had four questions from the last Airport Commission meeting minutes. Would people mind ifI asked them now? .... One of them is about the self fueling proposal and us putting the surface down for that to happen and I am not quite sure why we would even think of a 50/50 split if it is for the private person ...... We could give permission to have it done but why aren't they paying the upfront costs? Horan/We are not sure where we are going with that at this moment ...... Kubby/...why do we have to pay for it is my question? Horan/I think that is about a 5-6 year payback even at 50/50 .....We are looking at an awful lot of different options right now. Kubby/A question about the Master Plan and some of the obstruction removal... trees .... Possibilily of informing people ..... So that we have really good communication with the neighborhoods and they understand that replanting is part of the Master Plan. Horan/We will make sure they understand that. Kubby/....Lastly, about the terminal building.... suggesting that some thought be given to since the terminal renovations wouldn't be part of the Master Plan but would be separately funded, about getting the private sector being involved .... Can the private sector find the $200,000 to $300,000 or whatever it is going to take? Has there been discussion about that? Horan/That is a possibility. Kubby/I think it is a necessary commitment ..... Horan/What is the private sector that would help? If you took that cost and divided it into the 50 based airplanes that were out there, why would those people do that? Kubby/Because they are gaining some economic benefits ..... economic development ..... I would like to have a pm~nership with the public with the private sector who is benefiting through recreational and business purposes ..... Horan/We will continue to pursue that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 8 Kubby/My question was was there discussion about it? Horan/At this point, no. Thomberry/What I would like to see .....a demolition .....There axe some nicer ones.... Pella. .... Kubby/ Thomberry/It is also a municipal building. I also agree that given the opportunity, I would chair a committee to get donations 50/50. 50% from the community for 50% from there city even though it is a municipal building ...... privatize the airport .... Nov/ Horan/Thank you for the opportunity. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 9 Hiehwav 965 Alienment A~reement 96-109 SI Nov/Highway 965 alignment. Jeff- Jeff Davidson/The five of you who were at the last JCCOG Urbamzed Area Policy Board meeting are aware... the board unanimously decided to endorse the west alignment for the proposed extansion of Hwy 965 between Hwy 6 and Hwy l ..... It was expressed at the meeting... you informally as a group expressed a preference for another alignment ..... we should at least touch base with you before you took formal action tomorrow night ..... Nov/I have a question about the clarification about the purpose of this road ..... I am not sure we clarified the fact that this is an arterial street with curbs and gutters and sidewalks and lower speed limits. Davidson/... In fact it will not be under state designation ..... We are proposing an urban arterial street. The work that was done by the consultant reflects an urban arterial street, the corridor has r.o.w. for a four lane street... likely build a two lane street initially ...... curb and gutter, sidewalk. An urban city street that will allow development to occur within the cities ..... Clarify the agreement that you will be acting on tomorrow night.... It protects the corridor. 28E agreement between Iowa city, Coralville and the county to protect the corridor ..... walt for Coralville and Iowa City to annex out to that area and then decide to build the road. You won't see the county build a road .. The county is a very important player in this ..... Baked Would you clarify firat term protection a little more? Davidson/Protection gives the property owner full use of the property for what it is being used for right now. If there is a proposed change in the use of the property ...... That would then be scrutinized to determine if it is consistent with where we want to put the road ..... This alignment is already reflected in the Iowa City Comp Plan and the Coralville Community Plan ..... Pat has asked me to take this through the County P/Z and the Board to have it formally amended into the County Comp Plan ..... Baker/The corridor has a literal, legal width and location? Davidson/Yes it does... 100 feet. Baker/So, somewhere within a 100 feet, this arterial has to go? Davidson/Yes. Baker/... Davidson/East aligmnent was 1/2 mile to the east. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 10 Baker/This locks us into that location? Davidson/It locks you in unless as a body you decided to change it ..... Baker/How do you prohibit somebody, who owns property there now (can't hem). Davidson/At which point you encumber the use of the property, then you have to buy it ..... Council/ Baker/You have to buy the property if they try to get a building permit? Mitchell/That would be my understanding I will get back to you with a more definitive answer on that. But yes, I believe that is correct. Lehman/The question... whether we want to approve the westerly alignment as opposed to the one that we- Baker/Who has got the- It is not in our city limits now. So if somebody next year wanted to build on it, who has got to buy the land? Atkins/We can purchase the land .... Kubby/The county is a big player in this. Why can't they buy the land? Baker/There is no clear cut obligation that we have to do it but we can do it. Davidson/My understanding... person wanted to do a county subdivision in the vicinity of this corridor, there is nothing prohibiting them from doing that. They would simply have to do it arotmd where this road would be .....that would not eliminate all economic return of the property ..... Nov/Every subdivision has to allow for a road. Baker/ Davidson/The agreement clearly says that this does not obligate Iowa City, Lehman or the county to build any of the road until you all decide to do so. Norton/ Davidson/Parallel .....land use law and the development of property... Karin... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page Franklin/1 think in all of this area that we are talking about- South of Melrose Avenue.... Iowa City Landfill... Somebody going for a building permit, you do have the right to build a building on your property. The first we would do is try to convince toe person not to put it fight in the path of this roadway ..... We are going to have to look at the case as it comes along ..... When we subdivide land, asyou know, we all look at where the roads are going to be and we have that authority, under our subdivision review, to say that you cannot build in this particular spot because we need that for a public road for public good ..... That is right in subdivision law ..... Davidson/It is consistent with what we do right now .... Norton/...This is where it is not in our jurisdiction. Davidson/That is why we are proposing this agreement. Franklin/The plats are in our jurisdiction. Vanderhoef/And the building of this is to the standards of 50 mph? Davidson/The standards which are used are for 50 mph road which is, once again, similar to Scott Blvd. and Oakdale Bird ...... posted 35 mph speed limit Lehman/That is way out in the future. Davidson/It is whenever you all want to say it is going to happen. Lehman/ Davidson/I will tell you, since the decision has been even informally made, I have been contacted by property owners who are at least saying they are anxious to get going. We will see. Kubby/Naomi, you voted for- Nov/I did not. However, there were four people who did. I still thought we should do the compromise alignment where it is west .. swings over east... It wasn't unanimous. There were four votes among the city council members who attended that meeting. Kubby/ Nov/When I handed Jeff a piece of paper. What I added was urban arterial street so that we have made our intention imminently clear.... On the resolution it says we will extend this corridor between Hwy 6 and Hwy 1 for the purpose of constructing an urban arterial street so that it is clear that we are not going to build a highway. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 12 Lehman/...I don't think anything precludes us from changing that in the future. Nov/No, no it doesn't .... Lehman/ Vanderhoef/There may be a time out there that we will want a four lane and we may want it even with limited access ..... Kubby/ Nov/The resolution can change in the future ..... Norton/ Davidson/If you are talking about a four lane arterial, yes it would. If you are talking about an expressway ..... Nov/Scott Blvd. was constructed with two lanes. However the r.o.w. allows four lanes and it can be widened if needed in the future. Davidson/...Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 13 Downtown Iowa Ci~ Parkine Study 96-109 S2 Nov/Downtown Parking Study .... Davidson/What we want to do is touch base with you at the beginning of the study that we are getting ready to undertake ..... all the d.t. strategy discussions going on, parking is certainly going to be an element of that. This is the study that we had scheduled in the Transportation Planning Division Work Program.... let you know what we ate going to be doing and make sure that your expectations.... same..... This type of an evaluation... every five years we do ..... go with more structured parking... series of steps.... that city has taken with respect to policies you have for operating the system and the physical things that you have out there for people to use as parking facilities. Most recent.. right across the street here ..... It has had very high usage since the day it opened. Yon see the numbered items 1-6 in the memo you received from Joe and I. This is what we intend to present to you hopefully by the end of November..... show you by time of year, day of the week and whatever, how the usage is going out there... financial health of city parking system.... Joe has indicated .. electronic ticketing system... also give you information about violations, what type are most frequently occurring and where they occur and that type of thing ..... Plans.. Universits,, private developers.... d.t. development... summarize with you... and discuss if you want to do anything differently ..... ideas.... Joe and I added paragraph... never get to the end of this issue ..... Kubby/Most of these things are about the infrastructure and not about the policies.... programs to create incentives to increase occupancy ..... I would like that added to this list. To look how we can create pricing policies to increase occupancy ..... Nov/Does the rest of the group want to go along with this idea? Kubby/Having more people per car .... Norton/Yes ..... Kubby/Like your permit would cost less if you have more people in a car ....create... enforce.. price it .... Norton/ Kubby/I don't know where that stands... seems like we should talk about those policies as well as the infrastructure... standing directire. Lehman/...difficult to manage ....feasibility. Davidson/It is possible... we did do some research at that time.... We can let you know about that. Norton/I would say take a look at it if it isn't going to take you an infinite amount of time. This represents only a reasonably accar'ate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 14 Davidson/We should be able to give you information on that. Nov/All fight, does everybody agree.91 see nodding heads. Go ahead. Davidson/Anything that you don't see here that you want to make sure you have information on? .....Staff is proceeding with the acquisition of the property for the Near Southside Ramp .....parking impact fund .... Baker/Put those two issues on the next informal agenda because I would like to talk about location of that ramp and the whole impact fee policy and philosophy. Norton/Didn't we have another memo from Karin about parking in the CB-107 Davidson/That was CB-10. Norton/ Baker/One of the things that I asked Karin... Is it possible to break down the impact fee ..... commercial... Can you charge an impact fee just on the residential construction and not have an impact fee on the commercial construction? ..... Residential.... developing into a driving force ..... Way to charge impact fee based on bedrooms or rather than just units. But change the residential impact fee and eliminate the commercial impact fee. Nov/We talked about that. You were the one who argued against it. Baker/ ..... Norton/Put it on the agenda so we can revisit it ..... Lehman/That is something that will be addressed in next item, d.t. strategy. Baker/ Nov/I would put it in with parking because the d.t. is not going to go south of Burlington and this is a south of Burlington issue.... This d.t. strategy proposal is going to stop at Burlington. Baker/Not necessarily. Norton/ Baker/Ifyou move the new parking ramp to a different location other than St Pat's, you will have a dramatic affect on d.t. and the Near Southside ..... This represents only a reasonably accra'ate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 15 Norton/Parking requirements for residential in either area are important ..... Franklin/You have two different parking policies for parking in the d.t. and parking in the Near Southside. Parking policy in the d.t 1 think is going to be one of those things that comes up as part of the d.t. strategy.... What this study that Jeff and Joe are doing, that is going to get you a lot of the information about the circumstances of parking in the d.t. and will interface with the work you are doing with the d.t. strategy in terms of policy. Nov/It is not intended to concern itself with parking fees south of Burlington, is it? This d.t. strategy? Franklin/The parking study- Davidson/Our analysis goes south, east and north ..... Baker/...What would be the pros and cons and impacts of a different location for that Southside parking ramp other than St. Pat's .... Franklin/Depends on whether you have it still on the Southside or whether you put it someplace else entirely. Baker/ Davidson/We went through the decision making that got us to the St. Pat's site and we can regurgitate that for you. Baker/I think there are two people who would like to revisit that. Nov/Are there more than two people who would like to revisit that? Kubby/I want to hear what the discussion is but not tonight. Baker/On the informal two weeks from now .... Franklin/If you want to talk about a location for a facility south of Burlington and the impact fees south of Burlington, I think you can do that independent of the d.t. strategy ..... Baker/So can we put that on the informal for two weeks? Norton/I would like to .... Davidson/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 16 Kubby/When do we start looking at Chauncey Swan ramp? .... Davidson/We will be able to give you usage- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-109 SIDE 2 Davidson/So we don't have a lot of info.. we will do that as part of this study. We will summarize for you how many permits are in each ramp, short term usage. turnover ..... Kubby/ The form of information may be helpful ..... Davidson/...t~ and do stuff like this... Having a visual works good .... Vanderheof/Opportunity... look at impact that is being made ofabsence of Old Library lot. Davidson/Yeah. Vanderhoeff Fowler/We could see some changes almost immediately... usage of Chauncey Swan ramp and other areas ..... Kubby/ Davidson/Part of the reasoning behind the Near Southside Ramp that we are pursuing with St. Pat's... the Chauncey Swan Ran~p... going to be losing 64-1A and Old Libtroy lot. Well, it was full before we lost/hose lots ..... Kubby/If we build them, people drive more and use them. Davidson/...short term has to be right there... long terms permits we can move them a little flirther away ...... Nov/ Davidson/So, what we are proposing then sounds okay? Nov/Yes. Davidson/Okay, thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa Cily council meeting of September 23, 1996, WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 17 Downtown Strateev 96-109S2 Franklin/As Jeff and Joe are doing the Parking study, we will be touch .....We will keep connected ..... what they are doing on their project. You got a memo from David and I and this is a proposal, a place for us to start from. Three things that I would like to accomplish tonight and I would like to get them done. 1 - The charge of the committee. 2- Composition of the committee and 3- Selection process .... Let's talk about the charge of the committee first. As we envision this and this is taking into consideration a lot of discussion the council .... DTA ..... First thing for this group to address is what kind of d.t. people want to see for the future... What should d.t. be. You have to know what you are after ..... Outlined in the memo... talking about things that attract people to the d.t. and things that discourage them from coming d.t.... From that we would come to articulate a vision for what d.t. Iowa City should be.... Next step would be to talk about how to get t that point... keep... change ..... specificity. People are anxious to do specific projects ..... Example of entertainment center versus retail. If you decide that you want d.t. Iowa City to be an entertainment center .....pedestrian mall .... do everything you could do to enhance the pedestrian mall.... If... retail center, a place where people come to shop, you may choose to take out the ped mall and put parking in or bike racks... It is very important to initially, as a community, decide what it is you want d.t. to be and it may what it is today .....collection ofail of'these different lypes of things ..... Kubby/In your model... Franklin/This is a model. It may come out that way.... an example of what the outcome could be of this process. So in terms of what t have described, is that consistent with what you would like this group... to achieve? Baker/(Can't hear). Franklin/You have people in a group with perspectives... thoughts. To get them to think about it and to get them to articulate what they would like to see d.t. Iowa City be..... notion of bringing people together .... Baker/ ....When does the discussion about activities and features start in this process? Franklin/That starts at the very beginning to help people identify what things they do like and what things they don't like ..... Lehman/We would like this committee to come up with their visions of d.t. for the future. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 18 Franklin/...as we talk about the composition of the committee, you may want to reconsider the charge because..... if you, as a group, have strong feelings about what you want the outcome to be, then you probably ought to define the charge such that the cornmince is aware of this. Norton/How much we ought to shape this, you mean, year. Franklin/Let's hold that thought ..... Baker/ ....Where is the public input in their process come in? Franklin/They make a recommendation to the city council ...... comes back to the council... this is what we think d.t. should be.. This group... will have input from lots of people ..... One thing.... whole notion of talking about d.t.... I think what we do d.t. needs to be a public and a private effort. That is needs to be a joint effort ....... reflect of what the private sector want for the d.t.... such that everyone can get behind this goal to accomplish it. Norton/You could give them some kind of parameters .....ex: some form of library d.t Or are they suppose to invent the wheel all of the way? Baker/(Can't hear). Franklin/The council has not said anything as a body .... Nov/When we met with the library board, we did say that the library will be d.t..... we didn't get into exactly where. Franklin/If you want to put parameters on it, then I think you should at this point before the group starts working. Baker/I thought the majority said some version of expanded library will be d.t. Nov/We didn't talk about exactly how and where. That discussion is scheduled for October. Norton/We had talked some... hope to see out of 64-1A ..... Franklin/It has changed .... Norton/I would think we ont to give them .....flop around as long as we do .....I think they need to at least know a little bit. Franklin/I don't think that the expectation should be that this group is going to come up with very specific items such as how the libtroy is going to expand. That d.t. should be a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 19 vital area and that a public library plays a very important role in that can be a kind of statement that would come out of it Norton/ Franklin/Then you get to the actual strategies and that is after the goal has been decided and it gets down to very specific ways to implement those strategies and who is going to do them..... library. If one of the goals that we have a very vital d.t. and we have a strategy to provide for the expansion of the public library d.t. The implementation may be that the city council and the library board resolve how to do that. Kubby/ Franklin/Just using that as an example. I don't see this group making decisions about the library. You have an advisory board to deal with that. Norton/Will this group comment on their vision.... parking stuff will fall into place ..... Kubby/When I look at the model.... "maintain the distinction as the city center for commerce, government, education, culture and entertainment". .... I really like that.... broad goal. Franklin/One thing we can do.... two things: 1- Use the committee to work on how to achieve that goal or allow them to go through some process of determiniug a goal but letting them to know...this is something that is very attractive to the city council. Kubby/ Norton/I say give the model.... general outline strikes me as appropriate. Kubby/If we can say this right now, why have the committee? Nov/If we can go through all these strategies and adopt them, we don't need the committee ..... I wouldn't go beyond the goal. Kubby/Is there an agreement? Franklin/Would you like the charge of the committee is to work on strategies and ways to implement those strategies to achieve that goal? Thomberry/Yes. Nov/Goal... generic enough .... Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 20 Kubby! Franklin/Onto the composition of the committee. Nov/! would like to change the composition of the committee by eliminating the council members. We should be the body to whom the committee will recommend and we get our chance to put our two cents in later .... Lehman/Can I be the one on the committee? Nov/I think it is not good policy. We don't put city council members on any other advisory committee. Franklin/1 see a majority on that one. Kubby/ Baker/I am going to be at those meetings regardless of whether or not 1 am a member. It doesn't make any difference. Lehman/...Naomi's point is probably a good point .... Nov/I would really like us to sit back and let them to their strategy session without us. Franklin/The way 1 envision facilitating this ~s working with the committee with an audience certa/nly welcome but not necessarily participating ..... Lehman/We can always talk to committee members one on one. Franklin/ Nov/Do we want to keep the number at 17? ..... Franklin/I don't think... 17 as any kind of magical number.... Are there any other perspectives that you all thought of that are not represented here that you would like to? Kubby/Seniors ..... Franklin/ Norton/That is a representative in a way ..... Franklin/Elderly person .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 21 Nov/Put that person in as a non-user ofd.t ...... Kubby/So many people that travel from every comer of the commtmity to go down to the Sen/or Center .... Nov/... For that age group, the Senior Center is the reason for coming d.t ...... Kubby/My intent of asking for a senior person is perspective of a senior who uses d.t. for many reasons ..... Norton/Let's put a senior on. Thomberry/Each one of these.... someone on there representing... govemment.... Someone in the city government. Baker/ Thomberry/ Franklin/Remember this is all coming back through you .....Have we agreed to have as senior citizen? Council/(Yes). Franklin/Just one senior citizen. Okay ..... Baker/Why did you say University oflowa administrator? Franklin/That is a perspective of what the University's policies are for housing, parking, building, those things that affect the d t. which you will not get from a University student. Baker/ Faculty or staff?. Franklin/Faculty or staff also may not know those things. Nov/I think you can get somebody in upper administration. Thomberry/ Nov/Do we want to add a high school student? Norton/..There are two users ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa CiB, council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 22 Franklin/Thinking of non-University student. Norton/ Kubby/A lot of issues about accessibility and accommodation.... make sure there is someone ..... Franklin/You all are going to give me nantes, right? Nov/ Kubby/ Franklin/Some of the folks that you are talking about, you can fit into other categories .... Kubby/That is a really important perspective to give focus to ..... Baker/Are we going to restrict it to Iowa City residents? ..... Nov/We have always reslricted this. Lehman/I wouldn't think we have to limit it to d.t .....A lot of folks who come d.t. are not residents ...... Nov/Their property taxes aren't going to pay for it. Franklin/We don't Imow how this is going to be paid for yet ..... options ..... Nov/The reason for saying Iowa City residents is that we expect the tax payers to at least fm~d part of this. Novon/ Franklin/In terms of added ones I have a senior citizen and did you agree on a person with a disability? Nov/Not as a separate category ..... Kubby/I would like a separate category... make sure that that perspective is represented Norton/We turn our names into the staff and the staff does the forming. Franklin/We will bring a proposal to you base don the names that you gave us .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 23 Baker/Initial recommendation that this is the body that you would recommend ..... Franklin/So if you have any lists tonight, I will take them otherwise by Friday. This will be scheduled for your- Norton/ Thomberry/They must be Iowa City residents? ...We have always in the past excluded those who have businesses in downtoum but lived outside of the city limits. This is one opportunity that maybe they could be included .... Kubby/1 don't have strong feelings one way or another. Norton/... depending on who you are talking about. Thomberry/I wanted to know if they were automatically excluded ...... Nov/So far they are excluded unless there me four people who want to change it. Kubby/I don't have a problem with people putting them on the list. Norton/I don't either. Kubby/Let's for now say that it is open and that when we see- Nov/ ....All right, Karin, that is four. Kubby/Do you all know about the Senior Center Celebration.'? Nov/Friday morning ....bunches of other stuff going on ...... Kubby/ Council/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcripfiou of the Iowa City council meeting of S~ptember 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 24 Citizen Review Boards 96-109 S2 Arkins/I have prepared for you ~at I believe to be... a summary of your policy position following your meeting the other day. (Arkins' September 19 memo re: CRB). I am asstuning that I have satisfied that direcfive.....( 1 ) Authorized us to proceed with the law enforcement accreditation. (2) Council will have in place a form/structure of a CRB no later then 90 says from September 23 ..... (3) The CRB would be an agency appointed by the City Council ..... (4) An early task to be assigned to the CRB is to review the available information concerning the Shaw incident. Nov/I am not sure we are going to have that early ..... Arkins/This was intended to summarize what I thought you said. Norton/What I thought was they would review policies and procedures that were particularly germane to that. It is a little different than investigating that. Kubby/I wanted that but I didn't hear four people say that. Norton/The number of policies and procedures related to that would be the first ones to take a look at, that is my thought. Arkins/Let's hold #2 and//4 for a moment. (5). The CRB review pertinent City operating policies and procedures ..... schedule this every five years.... Assumption that this is a commitlee of some standing ..... On call as needed, as issues arise but they will have a specific task or change assigned to them on a periodic basis.. 96) Council has not decided on the level of your participation... up for grabs. Kubby/#1 I am not sure whether we discussed whether a full-time officer would likely be slated for accreditation or not. It may be part of the agreement to go through the accreditation process ..... Atkins/I am telling you to do it effectively, you need a full-time officer assigned. Kubby! Atkins/You have a couple of options... more semor officer.... two year assignment ..... I really believe it is going to require full-time attention. Nov/..should be a person who is already in an administrative position. Arkins/Maybe... We have soJne senior level officers that don't have rank that are very capable folks ..... We haven't picked anyone yet. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 25 Atkins/ B~ed Atkins/The fee is $7600 .....over 800 policies that have to be reviewed.... from experience... it is a full-time job ....That is the fee to the Commission on Law Enforcement Accreditation, Kubby/ Lehman/Do they have any other costs that we will be picking up? Arkins/No. They don't, we might.... recommendation on a policy that requires us to expend other moneys .... Norton/....enhances your stature? Arkins/1 don't think there Js any doubt that it does. Norton/ Arkins/I think it does those things... It addresses very clear issues of subject of policy scrutiny ..... Baker/If you take a full-time police officer to achninister the review.... Are you therefore obligated to hire another officer? Arkins/...I would probably come back to you and recommend.... we would need another officer. Norton/ Arkins/ Baker/So the administrative review is about 1 1/2 to 2 years? Arkins/Yes. Baker/What sort of time frame for implementation? Arkins/From experience... as review process unfolds... go after right away ..... Baker/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 26 Arkins/You wanted something that you were going to move through fairly quickly and that decisions that are going to be made, will be made and actions would be taken accordingly. Baker/ .....pushing $50,000. Arkins/I would say more than that. It is a big commitment ..... Nov/There is not point in doing halfway. Baker/...We haven't talked about staffing for the board itsel£ Nov/We may not need extra staffing .... Arkins/ Can I move to item #2 Form and structure.'? There are many questions you have to answered yet for me ..... trying to frame this issue in the sense that we have it put together in a form that alloxvs the public to react to the actual proposal that you have put forth ..... many issues that you have to decide for me. Do we do dual investigations or do we do just one?... Number of issues ..... If you were to say to me... citizen intake, complaint receipt policy procedure, we can do that with some immediacy ..... Citizen intake process prepares the basics of information, sends it to the Police Department, they do the internal. The internal then comes back to the Board and the board reviews it. The Board makes decisions on whether they want to send it back to them ...... Nov/I don't think we need dual investigations ...... Arkins/Important thing.. additional public discussions on this issue... Got to frame this in some fashion that the public knows what they are coming to the mic to talk about. Kubby/ Baked Arkins/If you want me to put together a couple of options for you so that the public can come ..... Need to have some kind ofgeneral idea. Nov/I thought we were going to decide the option that we like and then open it to public comment and chm~ge it based on public comment. Thomberry/ Nortotal We draft a proposal and then they react to it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Septera her 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 27 Council/(All talking). Norton/l think we owe it to them to present a proposal. Council/(All talking). Kubby/...So that the community really feels and is truly part of the discussion of the formatting of how this thing is going to take place ...... Thomberry/...going to need a cross section orthe community .... Nov/ Lehman/I have spent a lot of lime thinking about this.. read for hours... I have some thoughts... We have talked about this council showing leadership.... I think it is our responsibility to show them a plan that we can buy into, that we believe is fair and let them critique it ..... I do believe we owe it to them to give them a proposal that we feel- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-1 l0 SIDE 1 Lehman/... we all got a letter from Dave Baldus and I was very very impressed... I got the second letter, too. Nov/The second letter I thought was excellent ..... Lehman/...how can we get an independent committee... I think there is a process by which we can do this totally removing ourselves from any direct control of this commission.... We need so~neone on that citizens committee that represents a retired police officer... familiar with police procedures. That is an absolute must. Nov/ Kubby/Someone who has not worked wilh this Police Department .... Lehman/...Let these people make a choice to pick this person ...... I think we can get a committee that is so independent that we can totally rely on their choices as long as we have some expertise from the Bar Association and someone familiar with police procedures. Council/ Norton/Concerned... ira complaint arises and we have a CRB.... wou dn t there also be an investigation going on within the Police Department ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of tile Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 28 Lehman/I think it is really important that any citizen feels that they have a complaint that is worthy of filing, first thing they have to do is file that complaint with the Police Department. Let the Police Department try to resolve that compliant ...... If we are unable to do that..... the they go to the citizens committee. Nov/People have a problem walking into the Police Department to complaint about the police. So I would like to say that there is somebody who is not part of the Police Department who is on duty one day a week or whatever we set up to help people fill out the forms ..... Notion/ Baker/.... Ernie.... where you ended up seemed contrary to what we had started... what happens when people have to go to the Police Department to field complaints.... They won't go. Lehman/If the complaint is legitimate enough ..... Baker/We have a CRB, they take the complaint, they notify the Police Department as soon as they get a complaint ..... Police Department gets a complaint as well from the CRB, the CRB has some mechanism to investigate the compliant. Lelunan/Got two investigations going on at the stone time.... let the Police try it first .... Thomberry/ Norton/Whole point of the CRB was to give people an option ..... Thomberry/ ..... somehow we need to get that to the Police Department ...... to see if they can correct the problem before it goes any further .... Kubby/ Thomberry/... I don't think there should be any complaints anonymously. Baker/I think ..... if people have a complaint... they want to complain to somebody and not a policeman..... They have got to start somewhere where they anticipate a comfort level ..... Vanderhoeff What we heard the other night... complaints are taken care of because they happen immediately.... this is where they come anyway.... There wouldn't be any reason ...... supervisor.... We have a form, this is the form.... that person will be available to help you fill it out. Let's let our police forces do their very best. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 29 Norton/It is a matter of the citizen ought to have an option ...... Vanderhoef/Typically what happens is someone comes first.... then we can direct them where to go and have that anonymity. Norton/ Council/(All talking). Arkins/ If we can't even decide on how to file a complaint, we are never going to get this thing set up. We ate going to be here all night. Kubby/ Norton/I thought we had decided on a CRB as available.... They should have the ability to investigate ..... Arkins/Spending time on how somebody files a form. Kubby/Who you go to will dictate success or failure. Arkins/I understand... Clearly, for a CRB to function effectively, the public must be afforded the opportunity to issue their complaints directly to a non-uniformed officer ..... That is the foundation of this concept ..... m writing... timely... reviewed by.... I am just looking at the time. Do you want me to write one rip, prepare it and let you have at it? ..... Kubby/You have done that and we are still- Atkins/ Nov/Can we be a little bit specific? Do we want a dual system such as Berkeley or do we want the Kansas City style? Kubby/I want the public to give me feedback about that. Nov/I can say no to Berkeley. Nortou/1 want the CRB to have a shot first. Thomberry/The Berkeley or the Kansas City style? Is it a dual investigation or is it a- Norton/I do not see how the police can keep from doing their own internal investigation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 30 Nov/I can see the possibility of the review board reviewing the police internal investigation and deciding to make a recommendation that this is not an adequate investigation... or this is adequate and we have decided on discipline They should be given the police investigation ..... Kubby/Do we all agree about this issue about independence? How important that is? ..... process they use to do their charge that we give them. Do you think that having the internal investigation before it gets to the CRB creates an atmosphere or is reality independent? Lehman/I think that most.... complaints against police depa, i. ments are resolved.... If you folks think the complaints should be flied with the CRB, 1 think we are making a lot of extra work for them because I think they will take that complaint.... directly to the police... the police department probably will be able to resolve that complaint. Kubby/ Thomberry/ Kubby/We are making assumptions that people will go to the police and they should feel comfortable and I don't think that is true. Thomberry/I said the CRB.... let the CRB forward it to the Police Department to do their investigation. Baker/Can I get a sense.... problem with parallel investigations.... Is it a question of just a waste of energy or a matter of not trusting the Police Deparnnent? ..... Lehman/My problem is cost .... No~o~ Lehman/You could do parallel investigations before you even find out if they can be resolved. I think we need to detemfine that. Baker/The police internal review .....mm~y of them would be resolved without an investigation. Lehman/That is probably 90%. Kubby/You take the complaint to the CRB and forward it to the Police Department and try to resolve it withont an investigation, period.... better communication. lfthat doesn't work, then you go to the investigation. Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 31 Norton/The first step is mediation or effort by CRB to work it out between the person and the police. Lehman/... The CRB should be the appeals board ..... Norton/1 am saying it is the appeals ..... they have this other choice, they go to the CRB. Their first assignment is to try to work it out. Lehman/... I don't think details should be holding us up to the point we don't get anything done. Nov/Larry, there is no strong majority saying we should have two parallel investigations. Can we at least say we are going to try it without a parallel investigation without duplicating the whatever and if it doesn't work, we can revise it. We can put in a sunset clause two years from now ...... Thombery/I think there can be a dual investigation if the CRB does not think the police review was a adequate or some way shaded... have the capability of doing their own separate review ..... Nov/Their own interviews is one thing we expect the board to do but hiring an investigator is not something we expect this board to do. Kubby/Why can't that be a possibility? That there is this tiers of protocol you go through. Thomberry/Does it depend on the complaint? ....different... Let the police do their investigation and if the board does not agree with it they can do their own investigation and should. Nov/Okay, I think we have made some decision so far. Norton/I am not very clear. Nov/I think a majority here... that says let the citizen complaint go to a non-police person ..... an agent of the board ..... somebody is there receiving complaints ..... somebody is there filling out the forms with you. If this board has access to the police investigation, internal report of this arrest or whatever it was, they can review that. I am asking if they are going to be allowed to do that? Should they look at all of the police reports of this incident, all the internal investigation, question whoever they want to question. Thornberry/l don't think that is the first thing they want to do. 1 flfink... go to the Police Department.... let's mediate it. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 32 Nov/They have to do something .... Norton/It might not have been reported. Thomberry/ Baker/An intake process, police internal review, and evaluation of the review after it is done by the police or have parallel? .... Kubby/Some of us are suggesting ... another way of thinking about a non-parallel is to have additional investigation if the CRB deems appropriate ..... Norton/ Baker/When can a citizen.... they reach an internal decision.... when does the CRB or the citizen say I am not happy with the finding or the punishment?... Atkins/We creme a CRB ...... group of citizens. We will have a citizens intake process for purpose of a complaint ...... must be in writing, must be timely ..... that information will be taken by a citizen. As a side issue, that never prevents a citizen from going directly to a watch commander at any time they choose..... This is a choice the citizen makes ..... That information is taken.....that information would be distributed to the CRB, the confidentiality of which Linda will have to help us on. It would also go directly to the police chief. The police chief under his or her authority would initiate a traditional internal review of that complaint. At that conclusion of that complaint review, it comes back to the CRB. They, sitting as a body, review that information. They then decide that we don't think this is enough information, we want more. They then have the independent authority to seek outside or go right back to the chief and say I want some additional information on this. They also have the ability to say based on the information, they may issue a summary judgment. They may choose to say we suggest mediation. They may make a number of choices at that point in time. Then they recommend, send the information off to the chief. At that point that discipline is decided.... discipline is appealable ..... Norton/If you were to outline that as one option for us, that would be useful, Steve .... Atkins/I am saying I have to write this all down. Notion/ Atkins/CRB, if they choose to do so, they can also send the police back and say I want more information on this aspect. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 33 Nov/And they will have specific questions ..... ultimately the chief of police or city manager has to make the discipline decision. It is appealable. Baker/ .....police gather the information and turn the information over to the CRB before there is a finding ..... Arkins/ Kubby/The thing I would add.... lesser form of intervention ..... Arkins/I would make the assumption... the intake officer can even suggest to the person, if you wish to meet with the officer, we can make those arrangements.... causes it to occur in a more timely fashion... to head off the formal investigative process.... I think mediation is a critical element to make this thing work. Kubby/ Baker/Who is receiving the information to begin with? Arkins/Citizens... CRB. Baker/Volunteer board or is there a staff person? Atkins/It will probably be a staff person. We would have to train someone.... someone is going to have to be trained ..... It all gets explained to the person while they are sitting there. This is not a police officer. Baker/Could it be the Human Rights Director? Atkins/I don't tmow ..... Nov/All kinds of possibilities. Is the CRB an open meeting? Arkins/Linda is going to have a number of legal questions to answer for you. Nov/That is an important question. Woito/I am taking notes. You are all doing real well... problem.... where Steve is talking about... having the board make the decision- Arkins/Recommendation. Chief must issue discipline. They can recommend. Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 34 Woito/I would like you to step back about three steps and say I thought the purpose of this review board was to review administrative decisions of the police chief..... a review is a review ofsomebody's decision including the underlying facts... conclusions... policies... rules. lal other words, the review board should get the whole picture from somebody .... Norton/ Woito/I am a bit disturbed by the thought that the review board is going to make the initial reconunendafion on staff discipline. Kubby! Why? ..... Woito/Why tem~ it review? There is nothing to review unless someone has made a recommendation. Kubby/They are reviewing the complaint. Baker/Look at the information ...... what is the appropriate ptmishment Those are two different findings. I am asking Steve, are they going to make a decision about whether or not the complaint is justified and then also a recommendation about the appropriate punishment? Kubby/ Atkins/When an internal investigation is conducted, it is based upon actions of an individual ..... compare... with existing policy or procedure. Did those actions and that policy or procedure meet reasonable expectations. The citizen says I don't like the action ..... if the officer was acting within the policy, then the officer is not at fault. If he is acting outside of policy, then there is potential for blame. Either way that policy has come under some scrutiny.... need to fix it, correct it.... That CRB can say we believe that you need to look at that policy. Baker/I was trying to clm'ify what is coming into the CRB, what is going out of the CRB and to whmn for what purpose. Woito/....for policies they would have independent first line jurisdiction to look at the policies and then make a recommendation directly to either Steve or to the council. Norton/Two different aspects... dealing with particular complaints.... another... dealing with policies and procedures ......I thought this is a place where people would go with complaints ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 35 Atkins/They are made aware- The intake person would certainly advise the complainant of the variety of options available to them starting them have you spoke with the watch commander ..... that is an option... file a formal complaint, this is how it is done .... explain a process... may involve a cursor, review. It may simply kicking it back to the review board who in turn would contact the particular complainant... mediation is a process.... What we are trying to do is solve the complaints and be fair about it ...... Kubby/Two kinds of recommendations that could come for the CRB ..... polices and procedures and one is a recommendation about disciplinary action .....Is that a legal concern or policy concern ..... Arkins/ .....progressive discipline .....I do not see how they could possibly quantify it without having complete knowledge. Kubby/... we need to know what the real options are .... Woito/They can recommend it.... do you want them making the first line decision on a reconnnendation or do you want them looking at even the bigger picture which is my recommendation, to look at the big picture ..... Kubby/ Nov/We would like to see them do both. I hear them from all directions. Thomberry/We axe giving the complainant some choices here ...... Woito/You axe putting an incredible burden on an independent review board if you axe asking them to step into the shoes of the chief..... Ultimate decision is going to be by the police chief... state law, it has to be. Thomberry/ Nov/Chief and review board each make a recommendation to the city manager ..... Woito/If you require the initial first line decision making to be on this review board, you are asking them to step into the shoes of a top supervisor of a police department .... Thomberry/ Woito/That concerns me unless you want to go the staffing route. If you want to set up a more formal organization, that will work But if you are going to have a lay group, that is a tremendous burden to put on thein ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 36 Kubby/ ....maybe we need to ask Steve to put together this chart that kind of outlines... that has the recommendation on disciplinary action .... Thomberry/I really hate to reinvent the wheel. Norton/Baldus's letter .....He has got... heavy duty role for this committee. Woito/Acting in an appellant role, it is a review.... as an appeals board. Lehman/ .... I would really feel that as a matter of procedure, ira complaint is filed with the CRB, that we require that the complainant, along with somebody from the board or whatever meet with the supervising officer... opportunity to resolve it before the police make any investigation .....Any person who is accused, has the fight to face his accuser ..... Baker/ Thombeny/ Lehman/If the citizens board require them ....settle this thing ..... Baker/ Thomberry/ Council/(All talking). Kubby/So this will be on our agenda two weeks from tonight? Arkins/On 30th you have CIP, you also have special work session scheduled for the 2nd, Monday and Wednesday. lfyou are willing to give me until Wednesday, I can probably get something written in time for discussion that evening. Baker/ Nov/If we need it, the 2nd. We have CIP scheduled for the 30th. Baker/ Atkins/ Baker/If we don't have an agenda for the 2nd anyway ..... Atkins/CIP ....Your instructions to me are to draft the proposal- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 37 Baker/What you think we jus! said. Arkins/Okay Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accra'ate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 38 Animal Conlrol Ordinance 96-110 SI Nov/Do you want to start, Karen, go ahead. Kubby/I would like to go through one page..... so we are not flipping back and forth. Nov/Do you have an issue on the first page? Kubby/Under the definition of breeders. I am feeling that the definition is a little too broad for my taste. I don't want a household who has one litter of cats in its whole life time to be considered a breeder ..... Nov/Purposeful breeding an animal .... Kubby/ Norton/...How would you rephrase it? Kubby/I just want to raise that generalized feeling ..... Thomberry/I don't think one litter... makes you a breeder. Nov/So long as it doesn't happen tv, ace. Lehman/We will determine a promiscuous cat. Kubby/It is a serious question. Kubby/ .... also want to be able to not let it go on forever ..... Dennis Mitchell/Lisa Goodman is here as well as a couple of members of the Animal Control Advisory Board.... questions... input .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-110 SIDE 2 Nov/Stay with breeders for the moment. Is there anything, Lisa, that you would like to add to this discussion? Lisa Goodman/I just handed you all a little information that I hope you read. When you talk about one litter per household ..... There is no viable health reason to do that ..... It causes a lot of problems for the city, for us at the shelter ..... It is not just one litter .... offspring.... talking about thousands of animals in a very short period of time ...... The issue of are you a breeder I don't think is a commercial issue.... It is whether you are breeding an animal ..... They are taking the responsibility of offspring for that animal This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996, WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 39 and what does that mean ..... who is responsible for that animal getting out.... for the fact that it isn't spade or neutered and you take that chance. Thombeny/What happens if your pet has a litter? What is the fine? Goodman/If we knew about it.... It would depend on what you folks decided the permit fee would be. Kubby/So they would just retroactively need to get the permit. Goodman/That would be if we knew about it .....They wouldn't be able to list them for sale without a permit number. Baker/ Kubby/Have to have all of their shots before you can sale them or give them away. Goodman/... point is, at least the public would have the option then to go to somebody with a permit who is doing everything that they should be doing as opposed to somebody who is being irresponsible in our minds in not getting shots and not going through the process properly. Nov/Is it possible to say there is a permit fee if your animal has not been neutered? We will give you a license for an animal that has been neutered. If you haven't neutered that animal, we will charge you a license and a permit fee. Goodman/ ..... cities call it an unaltered fee ..... a license for an unaltered animal. It is much more than an altered animal. In this city it is $15 as opposed to $5. But cities who enact an ordinance like this boost the price quite a bit... for an unaltered animal. I am not sure you should just prohibit unaltered animals. I still believe that is a person's choice ..... Point is, if that animal breeds. That is the real issue ..... if it is breeding Thomberry/I show my dog and you can't show an altered pet. Goodman/It depends on where you show now-a-days ....There are shows now that take altered pets. Thomberry/ Goodman/That is saying you shouldn't necessarily have to pay a larger fee.... that much larger just because your animal is unaltered. You may not breed your animal ... But if you decide to breed it, then you pay that additional ..... Kubby/Do both parties need a permit? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 Septeraber 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 40 Goodman/No.... It is the fact ..... Kubby/Looking at this exponential growth ..... Baker/(Can't hear). Goodman/When was the last time we had a circus in Iowa City? Nov/There is not place for a circus in Iowa City. Norton/What about the arena'? Goodman/ Kubby/University doesn't have to follow anything. Thornbeny/if a group got together.. petting zoo. Goodman/It would depend upon what it was.... animal act or exhibition for a one time event. There is a big difference between a little petling zoo..... as opposed to having lions and tigers and bears and elephants running around the city. Karr/Lisa, what about the agriculture show they do at Sycamore each year... farm animals? Goodnmn/They are livestock.... displaying them .....4-H thing. Nov/The Chamber of Commerce Business Fair had a couple of llamas this year. Kubby/That is livestock. Goodman/It was also on the University property .....Llamas are livestock, so are alpacas. Vanderhoef/If we outlaw these animals, then how does an owner from out of the city transport that animal in-? Goodman/... make a provision for people bringing in their animals in to the city to be treated by a veterinarian. We might want some adva~ce notice... so we knew what was conting into town ..... Thomberry/ Goodman/I think we can make a provision for traveling ..... This represenls only a reasonably aecm ate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Septera her 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 41 Norton/Linn County has a provision in theirs for transporting things that are going through. Nov/ Goodman/This year the armory had their circus again... they didn't have elephants... complaints.... You are seeing more and more circuses without these types of animals. Barnum and Bailey is the only circus in the world that raises its own animals ..... Baker/ Nov/If someone cane in and asked for building permits to build a rodeo arena, we want to say no. We don't want it in the city limits. Goodman/Somebody had a question about horse shows ...... I think it would depend upon what kind of horse show it was .....fall under animal acts and exhibitions .....fair grounds .... Thomberry/You can't show a dog with a bobbed tail or the pointed ears in Canada .... Norton/... If they are not going to have them, why have it in here? Kubby/To make it clear. Goodman/I definitely don't think that the city is exempt from these types of acts coming to town ..... Baker/ Nov/They are legal at the fair grounds ..... Goodman/They have circuses in Cedar Rapids... Davenport and Des Moines... I am not sure Iowa City needs to have one. Lehman/Shrine Circus comes to town every year.... I don't have a problem with them doing that. Norton/Right now it is banned. Lehman/ Kubby/The nature of the rodeo... separate discussion about circuses and rodeos because rodeos just because of their nature is cruel. This represents only a eeasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Seplember 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 42 Goodman/Both of their natures is creel. You have to understand something... barrel racing is okay but they are not tripping goats and they are not tying up calves. There is a big difference. The problem with circuses is that people don't see the cruelty because by the time the animal gets into the ring, it has already been beaten down.... It is also why the animal gets angry sometimes.... tragedies that have happened at circuses... people have been trampled by an elephant... It happens... I don't know that we want that type of liability or that type of entertainment in Iowa City. Baker/How does the state regulate? Goodman/I don't think the state has any regulations on circuses at all. Baker/ Goodman/Thare is just a general cruelty code .....It would be under 162 if it were in there..... I know that you are went to circuses .....It can be just as exciting and just as interesting without the animals. Thornberry/...zoo at lower city park... creel... Norton/Hollow victory... have them outside of town.... It is kind of like declaring yourself a nuclear free zone. Goodman/I think you are being responsible in that way ..... Norton/ Kubby/...how we treat each other and other beings on earth. Norton/ Goodman/Build an ice skating rink instead. It will bring a lot more money into the economy of Iowa City. Kubby/So, what is our conclusion about rodeos and circuses? Leave it as is? Nov/I am ready to leave it as is. Baker/I would say I have no problems with rodeos and circuses (can't hear) .... Kubby/I prefer keeping it as it is in the proposed ordinance. Nov/I really don't think we need to allow them. This represents only a reasonably accra'ate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 43 Thomberry/I don't see any problems with rodeos either ..... Lehman/I see no problem with allowing them ..... Vanderhoef/We have an option... We can look at who are asking for the permits. Kubby/That would have to be included in the ordinance under what criteria they could be denied. Norton/There would have to be some investigation.... some writlen ..... Baker/.... have to be maintained ..... Nov/ Vandethoef/.. certainly we can ask for a permit situation .... Thomberry/I know how they are trained and I don't like it.. But I am not going to vote to not- Goodman/Why continue it then? Thomberry/So I don't have to go all the way out to Wyoming togo to a rodeo. Circuses I have more problem with than rodeos. Both are detrimental to the animal. Norton/ Thronberry/I can allow it to happen. Kubby/So are people saying we want to allow them, ask for a permit with criteria for denial? Goodman/You are going to have a difficult time doing that with a circus because you are going to have to... they travel all over the place ..... It is not an easy thing to do. Kubby/Criteria may be based on the kind of animals they have or the kind of acts that they have ...... Lots of ways to think about this criteria. Goodman/How about circuses without wild animals9 Nov/Okay ..... Goodman/National Guard Ar,nory had a circus this year with dogs and horses. Norton/Have you talked to people like Byron Burdford about this? ..... long time circus fan, performer, elephant trainer ..... huge investment... not about to mistreat them. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 44 Goodman/That is not true. Most ofthe circuses thin you see coming through are very small circuses ..... Nov/ Norton/ Goodman/They are not much different than the roadside zoos ',hat exist all over the midwest. Norton/ Goodman/No one showed up on circuses or rodeos.... one way or the other. Nov/I would like to leave it in as no circuses or rodeos.... absolutely no wild animals. Baker/ Goodman/Are you folks going to have a p.h. on this7 Nov/We have to decide if we will have a p.h. on this version or some other. Norton/I am willing to leave it in for the present version and then we will hear from the troops. Thomberry/...take it out. Baked (Can't hear). Lehman/Out, Vanderhoet7 Out. Thomberry/That is 4-3. Kubby/So it is a permit based upon what? No conditions, just get a permit? Need personnel to assess that, what is the criteria? Thombery/What is the penalty for smacking a tiger? Goodman/It is a misdemeanor violation .... Baker/Don't we have in general some animal cruelty laws on the books? Goodmad They are simple ntisdemeanors ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 45 Kubby/They can do it, they ask for a permit and the criteria is general animal welfare. Norton/Drop these highlighted clauses and put m this other language. Thomberry/ Goodman/You can certmnly say no to one or the other. Norton/Let's bite the bullet and exclude them then. Nov/We are deleting the "shall not be allowed" clause on both circuses and rodeo based on a 4-3 decision. Kubby/I have another thing.... on that first page ...... under the Motion Picture, Television or Theatrical Performance. To clarify... it is not only to show a movie that has a whale that you need a permit but it is in the making of the movie or television .... Goodman/It is in the making of. It is in the use of the animal. Kubby/1 would like to say any place or performance where one of more animals are used. Insert the words, "in the making of a motion picture, television...." Nov/Let's say producing. Kubby/ Baker/ Kubby/Because if you leave it as is, someone could strictly read that to say any video that has an animal in it. Goodman/What was the wording? Kubby/In the production of. Nov/Then you want to take out production at the need. Kubby/Let staff deal with it ..... Nov/ Norton/What are you going to do about pigeon or dove loft? ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transclSption of the Iowa City council meeting of Seplember 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 46 Nov/I have a concorn about even five or more... If there are four pigeons... aren't they going to breed? Goodman/Let me very briefly go through this issue of pigeons. The Advisory Board and myself went over this issue.... listening to all sides. We tried some compromises.... The reason why we came to this conclusion was because we decided that- One person in the city that has a pigeon loft. It was out purpose to in the future prevent larger numbers of pigeons in the city ..... person who exists, perhaps that person be grandfathered in. After talking to Linda, there are no grandfathers for any codes other than Zoning Codes. Thombery/Did anybody get moro than 33 calls about the pigeons? Council/(All talking). Norton/There are still two sides to the story. Woito/The concept of grandfatherrag is really pertinent to zoning law but you can use the concept here if you choose ...... Nov/Stay aroand Linda. If we decide that there will no longer pigeons allowed within the city limits or if we decide that they are allowed within the city limits if that property is zoned agriculture. If we put some various restrictions on it, does this one problem stay where it is? Does it become a non-conforming use in its current use? Woito/That is up to you. You can either write the regulation to make the current use unlawful or you can make it whatever is existing as of this day to be deemed in conformance with the ordinance and maybe give it 15 years or so called m~ortization to go away. It is up to you ..... Nov/Can we give it six months? Woito/Yes. Gooclman/When we went through this.... national suggestions on pigeon keeping. This pamcular gentleman would not meet those..... It wouldn't meet those requirements ..... They are generally based on space per pigeon.... distance requirements from other uses ..... Nov/We are requiring llamas and alpacas to be 75 feet from the neighbors house but not pigeons ...... Baker/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 47 Norton/We had better talk about it ..... Kubby/ Goodman/I don't think we are going to go back and rewrite this tonight. You are going to have hear people out tomorrow on this particular issue. Kubby/So the rules that we created are okay for some instances But not others? That we were going to go through and give some feedback about what we initially thought we liked or didn't like about the ordinance to the Animal Control Advisory. That was the purpose of us going through this. Norton/But he said just hold pigeons for tomorrow night because there is so much input. Baker/You will find an ample discussion tomorrow night about pigeons at public discussion. Goodman/....are medical issues ..... Nov/Let's go back to numbers. The definition of the pigeon place is five pigeons or more. A cat kennel is five cats or more but a dog kennel is four dogs or more. Can you explain why? Goodman/Dogs are generally bigger... noisier ..... s~nell more.... They cause more of a problem in larger numbers than these other types of animals do .... Norton/We can negotiate about the number of pigeons tomorrow. Baker/ Goodman/You can have four dogs, five cats m~d five pigeons if you wanted to. Kubby/ Baker/ Goodman/You could have three dogs, four cats and four pigeons. Baker/ Norton/At some point you move from the bizarre to the eccentric. Kubby/ Baker/....birds. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 48 Baker/... Where are these lines being drawn .....Is there a limit of indoor birds of any kind? Goodman/No ..... The only thing that we thought of that could pose a problem would be larger..... parrots... birds that are capable of making loud noises..... There is a code that deals with noise nuisance. Lehman/Are there cities that have requirements for numbers of animals... based on square footage? ..... Goodman/Most of these don't deal with the question... until the numbers get bigger.... horses or livestock or exotics .... Thomberry/ Goodman/It depends on the animal. Some animals just need larger areas of space than others. Thomberry/ Goodman/You can have more than three but you have to have a permit to have more than three. Thomberry/How much is a permit? Goodman/It depends on what you decide. Vanderhoeff Goodman/It wouldn't matter if they were inside or outside ..... Most people don't collect large numbers of those types of birds because there are problems between the different species.... I only know of one gentleman in town and he is breeding a specific type of bird and he keeps them very indoors because they are endangered .... Vanderhoeff Goodman/... The idea behind the permit is you would come in and say I want to have a pigeon left in my garage and I want to have 50 pigeons. We then go out to your house and determine if you are caging and space would be adequate enough ..... Baker/The reason I raise this thing about parrots.... houses... waste on the rug .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 49 Goodman/There is a difference between .....generally the people who do it at a husbandry level are doing it for racing, breeding .....It becomes more of a commercial issue ..... Norton/We can always add other categories to prohibited animals .....or include parrots .... Goodram# We weren't over and over this... We don't have a huge problem with having them if they are regulated a certain way....distance requirements from neighboring .... Nov/We could do it that way..... pigeon coop if you have at least three acres of properly.... It is not going to allow very many within the city limits but it is not going to absolutely prohibit them. Goodman/1 think you need to decide... what you want in the future... current issue.... separate issue. Kubby/Tomorrow night ..... public discussion.... another p.h. I am not sure what compliment of people are going to be here tomorrow night ..... Nov/We may not make a decision ~omorrow night. Goodman/It should be part of the p.h. Kubby/I am not saying that we wouldn't have a p.h ..... what information will we base our decision to direct Animal Control to come back to us ..... Norton/ Goodman/We have a Board meeting on Thursday. So if you could at least give us some ideas to go with ..... Baker/.... process that you went through to arrive at this form of the ordinance.... council members getting a lot of feedback ..... Were those people involved in this ordinance? Goodman/Some people were and some people were not. The Board invited all the pet shop owners, all the groomers, anybody in the animal business in town ..... everybody we could think of. Word also got out to people who showed an interest.... some of them were reptile enthusiasts. We didn't have anybody who had lmge animals show up ..... interest had to do with reptiles ..... A lot of them also wanted to see what we came up with... Now we are getting some additional feedback .... Norton/... with regard to pigeons. You have got five in here but you said... you could conceive of ten properly housed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 50 Goodman/I could conceive of a lot more than that properly housed. Norton/... see what happens tomorrow and later. Nov/I think it is distance from the neighbors. Norton/The numbers. Baker/ ....primates? Norton/Nobody can have a pet monkey, right.'? Goodman/Right. Where are you going to get it from? .....Are they legal? Most of them are not. Thomberry/ Goodman/When we went tba-ough with the county.... a good number of those animals were illegally obtained and also were illegal to have in the state.... Primates axe the number one carrier of human transmitted diseases more than any other animal. Nov/ Baker/Are monkeys legal or not legal in the United States anywhere? Goodman/It depends on what kinds there are..... it does go state by state, city by city. Baker/ Goodman/Anything that isn't human. Kubby/I think the only exception I would want to make... to have a definition that is not here of assisfive animals.._ There are also hearing dogs.... some people are using primates. Goodman/... that is in the code that currently exists and we talked about that. We can change that.... I am not sure that should be pan ofthis. In terms ofthe assistlye primates, I would like to see some information on that ..... I don't have any information on that. Kubby/ Goodman/._ It is not just hearing... they do all sorts of things. Norton/ Baker/Can you give some examples that would be legal to have in Iowa City? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of lhe Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 51 Goodman/Boa constrictor, legal. Norton/Do you investigate everybody?.... permit for one chameleon? .... Goodman/The purpose of that inspection is to h~sure that that animal and those folks know what they are doing and the animal is maintained properly .....To assist people in maintaining animals in a certain way so they don't die ..... Norton/... It says, "shall make such investigation and havesligation as it deems proper." Well, when is that? Goodman/When somebody applies to us ..... Norton/Why don't you say that whenever you issue a permit, there will be a home inspection, period? 6oodmm~/... example.... we want to do an inspection and somebody will not allow us in and we have received a complaint of cruelty. We may deem it necessary to get a warrant ..... The real issue is the we go out and we inspect the situation that that animal is in. Norton/... 1 thought you were going to inspect all keepers of restricted animals? Goodman/That is a wording thing. We can change it. I want to inspect all that we decided. Norton/ Council/(All talking). Lehman/ Kubby/ Council/(All talking). Norton/So you are fix it so it is mandatory inspection for reptiles. What I am worried about... that you are going to carry out inspection for every single little reptile ...... Goodman/One inspection a year... are not going to be a burden on us. NoVon/ Tiffs represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 52 Goodman/Chances ate I am not going to know they have one chameleon ..... But the person who has an animal that lives for 30 years and doesn't want it taken away from them... may come in and get a permit. Thombery/Where do they get a reptile inspected anymore?.... Greg Zimmerman. Goodman/He is still doing it as far as I know... no where. Kubby/Definition of veterinarian in here only allows vets who ate licensed in Iowa to be considered. It may be someone who has someone .....I would just say licensed instead of just saying just Iowa ..... Goodman/1 don't think we have a vet in Iowa Ciw that specializes in these things at all. Goodman/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-111 SIDE I Baker/I understand why you want piranha be a certain kind of fish you would want to regulate in some where. Is it prohibited now in this ordinance? Goodman/(Yes). Baker/That is sort of like safely of somebody else ..... Goodman/It is the safely of the owner, too ...... Baker/Is there no such thing as cruelly to fish? Goodman/Absolutely and it can be reported ..... We talked about fish also and we decided not to put them in here .....It is a tough call... we drew the line there... We drew the line at certain birds and fish. Baker/ Goodman/I think it would be ridiculous... to limit the amount of fish that somebody could own ...... We don't get the complaints about fish ..... Pet shops are under permit. There is a pecking order of animals which we do in our society.... some animals are more important, generally, than others ..... Norton/This is a joint board... Is Coralville going to adopt an ordinance like this or consider it? Goodman/1 don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 53 Diana Luridell/We are going to let you do all the hard work first. Norton/ Luridell/This is a subject that came up. There are two of us from Coralville on the Board ..... We would like to see Coralville do it and vail probably recommend it to them also..... It would be our intention ... to keep up with Iowa City .... If you get most of the bugs worked out ..... You hear a lot more... We may not have the same level of intensity about the different animals ..... Out intent is to keep that even thing between both cities. Lehman/What precipitated the review of the ordinance? Thomberry/We have a proactive group. Lehman/ Lundell/.... It actually did start kind of with the pigeon question and the Lisa provided us a vehicle kind of work that into the bigger picture ..... Goodman/I did feel Iowa City had a problem because they didn't have a vehicle to deal with certain things that occur here or may occur hem.... a concern. Baker/.... prohibited versus restricted animals. Prohibited animals are those that pose a danger to owners and public and restricted animals... Goodman/... The other idea behind the prohibited animals is that they are animals that have a tendency to cause additional problems should they get loose and are harder to maintain ..... Kubby/I think it would be a good idea... decide whether or not prohibited animals are grandparented in or not The ordinance doesn't speak to that one direction of the other ..... Lehman/ Thomberry/ Kubby/Whatever we decide, that we should make it explicit in the ordinance so it is real clear. Council/(All talking). Goodman/If you folks ..... If you can go through the list of prohibited because there seems to be a problem with some of them ..... with any particular animal. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 54 Thomberry/I have a problem with people who mistreat... cruelty to animals I think is one of the cruelest things and should be punished severely. Norton/That is not the matter here. Baker/ Thomberry/I am saying cruelty to animals and there is a difference to eating hamburger and cruelty to animals. Norton/That isn't the issue here. Council/(All talking). Goochnan/You could talk about making it a felony later. Thornberry/ Goodman/We have a cruelty law.... simple misdemeanor. Woito/It can also be a municipal infraction so that you can go in and abate the problem .....and eventually take the animal away. We are limited in terms of criminal law to simple misdemeanors because we are cities. That is all we can do other than municipal infractions. We can't do felonies. Go to county attorney for that. Norton/ Goodman/I think ira lot ofyou have gotten ca]Is on reptiles ..... Norton/ ... leave it the way it is and see what happens. Goodman/I would urge you... most of the animals on this list should remain prohibited in the city as far as we are concerned. Baker/ Goodman/I think that most of them are generally reasonable. Norton/This fee issue was a big one for them ..... Kubby/In looking at the restrictive hst. I had a question about ferrets being on the restricted animal because there is now a shot for rabies for ferrets... any kind of special enclosure or feeding systems... to have a decent home for a ferret?... This represeuts only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 55 Goodman/Simply because ferrets are escape artists..... They also can be very violent towards youngsters ..... And although there is a rabies shot, there is only one vet in the general area, not in Iowa City, that gives it and it hasn't been out that long. It is the only wild animal that currently there is a rabies shot for. Kubby/ Goodman/Ferrets are weasels and the transmission from skunks and raccoons, the weasel family is much easier than some other animals .....So the transmission is a problem also ..... Kubby/One question.... making sure our staff has an opportunity to be trained about all of this and having the resources to do that ..... Goodman/My staff doesn't know everything about all of these things .....There are training that takes place .... Thomberry/Pot bellied pigs.... wouldn't seem to me to be life threatening. Goodman/They are restricted ..... most people treat them as pets ..... most of them out there now are huge and eat a lot. Nov/Is there a place where agriculture land in the city limits is being used for animals? ..... Goodman/I don't know. Vanderhoef/There are horses. Goodman/Over offof Dodge.... they have got horses and such there. Vanderhoeff Nov/I am talking about pigs or chickens or something where people are raising pets for food rather than raising plants for food. Goodman/The only ones I know about are cows. Baker/ ....under prohibited animals... excluding... pit bulls. Goodman/Yeah. Baker/ga]d peacocks .... Nov/Peacocks and peahens .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meefiug of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 56 Goodman/ ..... they cause great destruction and are very noisy and almost impossible to catch when they get loose. Council/ Kubby/...page 3, Pets at Large. Goodman/This is already in the Code. Kubby/I want to change what the current code says. That you can, on your own property, have your pet offa lease or not iu an enclosed area and not be considered pet at large. Thomberry/My neighbor has one of those underground fences and they are off lease. Goodman/We don't consider it a fence ..... Kubby/I am saying that in your own yard you can have that ..... Goodman/Let me tell you why we put this code in. We don't enforce this everyday.... because people need to have the right to walk down the sidewalk with their dog on a lease and not be concerned about that dog that is not on a lease and no one is with it or their child in a stroller and not be concerned.... There is no dog that is trained well enough to sit and stay on command..... That is why we put this in there... We don't enforce it unless we get a complaint on it ..... Kubby/._ l just feel like it is kind of anti family somehow that when I get another dog... Frisbee.... doing something illegal ..... Goodman/... backyard... dog on a long tether .... Kubby/ Goodman/You have people now.... we don't enforce that unless there is a problem .... Nov/I think it is fine the way it is ..... Thomberry/I kind of agree with Karen ..... Nov/I don't want to wait until your loose dog bites my kid before I can prosecute. I want this to stay where it is. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 SeptemBer 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 57 Goodman/.... There is a difference of security when there is a fence there or when there is a leash there... different sense of security that somebody has that that animal is under some sort of control. Kubby/ Thombeny/I still wonder about that underground electrical fence .... Goodman/We don't consider it a legal fence becasue the city doesn't.... and they don't work..... We get those dogs in the shelter all of the time .....It works for some dogs and it doesn't work for others. Thombe~/An untethered dog in a fenced yard is okay. Is that correct? Thomberry/ Kubby/On the Breeder's Specific Rules and Regulations, #2 Goodman/We changed that to five cats. Kubby/I didn't understand//4 & 5... difference between//4 & 5 .....Only two of those dogs they could breed a year. Goodman/That is right. The idea is to limit the pet population .....We don't have a problem with the supply of dogs in this area ..... Vanderhoef/How do you enforce #8? Goodman/....simply we could call a vet and determine if the animal had any kind of severe problem. Kubby/ VanderhoetY One other word in definition... refer to the word, "peace"..... #21 ..... Goodman/I think that definition exists in the nuisance codes. Thero is not time limit anymore. It is a noise issue. Vanderhoeff Either change the word or in this document define it please. Goochnan/Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 58 Baker/ ....changes would be highlighted. Nov/This is not the total ordinance .....This is all the highlighting. Mitchell/Next time I will bold the changes .... Goodman/ Mitchell/Most of them are new but not all of them are new. Baker/Just when possible, highlight them .... Vanderhoef/One more definition I would appreciate in the permit rules and regs.... #9... overcrowded. That is preuy nebulous. Goodman/It is going to have to be... policies set by me at the shelter. There is no way to list the space for every particular animal. Vandcrhoeg State that ..... Goodman/We will say specific to the species or whatever. Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Mitchell/Highlight all the changes to the current code ..... Goodman/Going to need to know what you decide, if anything, tomorrow. Mitchell/ Norton/We don't have a chance to discuss what we hear tomorrow ..... Nov/Are you available to listen tomorrow night? ..... Goodman/7:00. I will try. Nov/...tape... re-running it. Norton/...There will be a new document and another hearing opportunity ..... Council/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Septera ber 23, 1996. WS092396 September 23, 1996 Council Work Session page 59 Council Agenda/Time 96-111 S1 1. Kubby/Agenda #3d(4)... agreement with Clark about the r.o.w.... I would like the exhibit A about the trees to be part of the legal agreement ...... He is agreeing to it. Norton/I would like it put in. Nov/Free. Kubby/There are four people who would like to have Exhibit A for the Mainstreet Partners to be pan of the agreement ..... 2. Baker/ Encourage all of us to go see that pigeon coop and talk to Mr. Seydel ..... Kubby/Personal vendetta.... If you are going to listen to that... ask... what is really going on ..... I have not gotten any straight answers ..... Baker/ Council/ 3. Baker/ One other thing about public discussion tomorrow night. We are going to have more than just pigeon people.... Maybe we need to upfront... take issues one at a time .... more people to talk about Police Department ..... Kubby/...let that issue flow and then go to the next. Norton/I don't like that is happening.... have people come at the public discussion when it is not really the public hearing ..... Kubby/A lot of small issues during council time tomorrow night? Lehman/Depends on what time it is. Kubby/ Adjourned: 11:55 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of September 23, 1996. WS092396