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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-10-02 TranscriptionOctober 2, 1996 Council Work Session October 2, 1996 Council Work Session Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Arkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Schmadeke, Fosse, Yucuis, Trueblood, Mitchell. Tapes: 96-117, Side 2, 96-118, all. Downtown Strategy Committee 96-117 S2 Nov/Karin is going to talk about CIP. Franklin/Actually... Downtown Strategy Committee ..... Norton/Are you amplified? Franklin/....I don't know ifI am, Dee ...... talk to these folks about serving on the committee because no one has been queried yet as to whether they even have an interest in doing this. The list that is before you comes from the suggestions that you made. We tried to put together a group that was representative of a different perspectives... gender balance.... some new faces in all of this as well as older faces.... various interests. The one that I want to call your attention to... Old Capitol Mall representative ..... thinking of Old Capitol Mall, the mall entity as a player in d.t since it occupies a ... significant area. Someone who would know the direction the mall might take .....We made the suggestion for Deirdre Castle who was the manager of the mall ..... Norton/Larry said no, no, no. Thomberry/Why? Baker/I would be glad to tell you privately. Lehman/Gary Lundquist, past president of DTA... very conscientious person. Kubby/ Lehman/The mall is owned by an outfit out of Chicago, we all know that. Thornberry/No, Gary doesn't own part of the mall. page 1 7:00 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 2 Lehman/But I don't think that Deirdre speaks for the mall. Kubby/ Franklin/There isn't anybody else except Deirdre. Thornberry/ Franklin/Gary is a perfectly legitimate person to have on this group from his perspective as a tenant of the mall. I suppose what we can do, as this group progresses, we will try to get information from the mall and their intentions. But they would not then be part of the discussion.. It is up to you. Baker/I prefer Gary Lundquist. Nov/There are only two. Thornberry/I am happy with Gary. Franklin/1 got four there .....How do you feel about the rest of it. Baker/What is Joanne Fritz's position over at UI. Franklin/She works in Anne Rhodes' office .....title is Director of University Relations. Nov/ Franklin/She has been going to DTA meeting. Nov/I would give her a strong recommendation .... Lehman/ .... category. I don't see any representation from.... a professional group... bank, financial institutions, accounting firms.... associated with money ..... Norton/That was in that category ... d.t. service provider. Nov/... happy to see that we have one lawyer ..... Kubby/...problems... going to be whatever they come up with.... cost. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 3 Lehman/Also think that someone from the financial community that is involved in the discussion ...... Kubby/Is that one of staff's jobs? Norton/ Lehman/ Franklin/That would be one of the pieces that we would bring to them.... not going to be just what will the city do. But also what some of the private sector businesses will do. Lehman/... folks... going to have expertise in that area. Franklin/I tlfink it has more to do with the willingness of people to pay. Lehman/ Thomberry/With property owners and Gary and John Gross and Nancy Burhans.... have done remodeling... They pretty well know what things cost. You would know. Franklin/Nancy Burhans is part owner of Gringos or owner of Gringos. Norton/We are more interested in vision in some way ..... Vanderhoeff I don't know some of these people. Franklin/1 have a little bit on each of them. (Reviews Downtown Strategy Committee list). Marge and Nancy are the only people that I am aware of who live outside of Iowa City ..... Norton/Weren't there plenty of nominees from in town? Franklin/Yeah, there are other people that could be chosen who are in town ..... That was not a big thing ..... as long as there is connection with d.t. Kubby/There is only one younger person on here.... He is a student senator ..... 1 am interested in ...... who hangs outside the Tobacco Bowl ..... user ofd.t. in a different way ..... also communicating with different sectors. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 4 Franklin/There are a lot of entities that are leg out of the group of sixteen ..... Possibly one of the first meetings we should have ..... up to the group... that is to have a wide open forum for people to come and give them their perspectives that they can use that input... session at the library... open it up... give their perspectives on the d.t ..... Kubby/(Can't hear). Norton/ Franklin/I need a suggestion of somebody and consensus, too. Norton/... I want to ask, is Marty going to have time? Franklin/I don't know ifany ofthese people are going to have time. Kubby/ Thornberry/Have these people been notified? Franklin/No. Kubby/ Franklin/That was why it was brought to you tonight. If there is not resolution on this list, let's put it off until Monday. Nov/(30 ahead and find out if anyone here (list) wants to do it. Franklin/When I call these people, I don't want to call them and ask them to do it if someone has got some objection to somebody on this list or feel strongly that somebody else ought to be on. Kubby/I really think another younger person is really important because d.t. is used by a whole spectrum of ages ..... Vanderhoef/How about Corey Anderson?.... my list... She has a long history of Iowa City.... under student. Norton/She wanted perhaps to leave Mark and add one somewhere else. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 5 Kubby/I wanted to add another under 30. Franklin/Do you want to just add another one that is a UI student? Do they need to be a student? Thornberry/Maybe a high school kid. Nov/I think the list is fine the way it is. Norton/What is the cost of adding some young person like she suggests. Franklin/I got three of you so far that is saying add somebody young. Norton/... add that young person ..... Vanderhoeff Nov/ Vanderhoef/She is a junior now in college .....She has a histoN in d.t. is all I am saying. Franklin/What is the consensus of the group? Thomberry/Add one. Nov/GO ahead, add one. Franklin/Add one young person. Kubby/Another suggestion.... interesting for as part of the strategy to have some of these people go and talk to the different people d.t ...... Franklin/Soliciting input. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of tile Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 6 Caoital Iml~rovement Proiects Discussion 96-117 S2 Franklin/.... talk about potential changes that you would like to make. I would like to go by fiscal year ..... Are there any changes... FY977 Lehman/One that I think I would like us to look at.... r.o.w. and grading for First Avenue Extended.... pressure on Dodge Street... see what the impact would be to go ahead and pave it at the same time. Franklin/First Avenue to East West Arterial. Norton/That brings up a terrible range of problems.... If you do that before you do Scott, then you bring heavy duty traffic fight down First Avenue ...rather have go down Scott. Lehman/First has been constructed on arterial standards for 20 years ..... they knew it was to be expanded .....All I am asking is that the staff look at and just give us the ramifications of it. Norton/Counter part of it is forget about extending First and bear down on extending Scott. Nov/Another thing... whether or not we are going to have the East West as far as First Avenue at the same time we extend First Avenue. Franklin/Paving First Avenue in '97. If you are trying to hook up the East West Arterial... scheduled for FY98 now.... want to make that connection sooner than later. Okay. Lehman/I think I do ..... Franklin/We now have scheduled the grading for First Avenue in FY97, the intersection improvements and grading for East West ,arterial from Dodge Street to First Avenue in FY97. That paving of East West Arterial would be FY98 ..... We would want to have the paving of First Avenue in FY98 if that is agreeable to you. Lehman/ Franklin/Moving it out of the far beyond and doing it sooner to make the co~mection. Vanderhoef/Do it while the sewer project is happening ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 7 Franklin/ ..... You are talking about making those connections sooner and paving East West Arterial and First Avenue. Dee and Karen and Larry are saying no. Okay. Baker/We discussed this at a previous council two years ago .....1 am trying to recollect the rationale of P/Z ...... Franklin/The rationale, I believe... we had quite a bit of difficulty when we talked about the closure of Dubuque Road on the ACT property... emotion... concern about what the alignment was going to be of the East West Arterial ...... concern... that that segment was going to be very difficult to connect. Beyond that is was what Dee is suggesting and that was that with First Avenue connected that if that were to happen before Scott Blvd., there would be an inordinate mnount of traffic on First Avenue ..... people would go that way ..... There must ofalso been an assumption that if Scott Blvd. were in as an alternative with the east West Arterial even after First Avenue was put in, people would continue to use Scott Blvd ..... argument is a little flawed.... in terms of where people are going.... people will take the shortest route ..... Norton/It depends on how far out you are talking about Scott being extended... need all three phases .... Franklin/Still....has a lot to do with destination ...... Kubby/ Baker/Trying to figure out why extending First takes pressure offof Dodge? Lehman/ .... folks would prefer to use First Avenue Extended than fight the traffic on Dodge Street ..... lessen difficulties we have now on Prairie du Chien ..... Norton/I want them to get use to going over the Scott .... Lehman/ Thomberry/I think the track traffic would like to go off the interstate, East West Arterial to Scott and down to the industrial complex there .....I think while they are doing the laying of the pipe on the East West Arterial .....They were not unhappy with it as I remember.... Would it be less expensive to do that all at one time as opposed to doing that at one time and then coming back later... I think that East West Arterial should first connect with Scott Blvd. Extended. Then ..... extend First Avenue ..... get trucks use to going Scott Blvd ...... also put a load limit on that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 8 Nov/ Franklin/The truck traffic is primarily going to go to BDI and it is going to come off the Local Road exit on 1-80 ..... You will have some that comes into the HyVee on First Avenue .....They are going to be serving the HyVee on Hwy 6 first ......then up. Thomberry/ Davidson/We have somewhat unscientific information from the economic development folks about patterns oftpeck traffic. We are seeing a great deal oftpeck traffic on First Avenue of on Hwy 1 right now.... There is getting to be... in commercial areas... type of truck seems to be getting bigger.... more and more bigger trucks into commercial areas.... Traffic coming from the west is generally taking 218 and Hwy I and Hwy 6.... From the east they are coming in Local Road and coming down Scott Blvd ....... Thomberry/You think that the semis then after delivering to the new HyVee... to retum to Des Moines... they would go back down First Avenue to Hwy 6 out to 218, up to 80- Davidson/That is what we are told ....... I think the semi traffic that you are going to find on First Avenue is going to be oriented to the commercial area .....BDI, those folks are going to come in from the edge of town .... Baker/ Davidson/We have generally 3-5% truck traffic is typical mix. Baker/ Lehman/ ... they have got to go down Dodge Street. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/That is the only way to get to the other side of town. Vanderhoef/To Jefferson then head east. Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session p~e9 Baker/What I am trying to figure is why that First Avenue Extended is going to take the pressure off. Lehman/ Franklin/It will probably take some of the pressure off. Remember our employment core is still d.t .....majority of that traffic is still going to... But anybody who is going to the east side .....alternative... going to take it because it will be shorter. Vanderhoeff ... using First Avenue Extended... to ACT.... would stay off'of Dodge Street completely ..... Norton/What is realistic here.... What is the sequence right now? .... Franklin/Right now, the way this is put together, the East West Arterial progresses from west to east. Scott Blvd.- Norton/On thirds. Franklin/ Nov/I think the third part of it is 2002. Franklin/Scott Blvd., Phase I is in the way out .... Scott Blvd., Phase I is Scott Blvd. up to the East West Arterial and then west to ACT's property line. The other two phases of East West Arterial are from Dodge Street to ACT's property or First Avenue and the second phase is through ACT's property to their east property line.... Right now, in the east... there are no people there who are interested in developing. That is one of the big factors here ..... What it would do is open up that whole area up here for development ..... But to believe that that is going to take a lot of traffic offof Dodge Street we think is not so. Norton/East West, if you take all three phases and finish it in 02... that First Avenue is even beyond that ..... Franklin/That is right and what Ernie has suggested is that First Avenue be moved up so that this connection happens by '98. Vanderhoet7 The section up to the East West Arterial on First Avenue is approximately what length? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 10 Davidson/About a halfa mile. Vanderhoef/... interests me in serving our community in that we can relieve a lot of the traffic which is the safety factor in my mind on Dodge Street and serve the eastside of Iowa City ..... Kubby/It may be a convenience factor but it is not really a safety factor ..... Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Nov/We are all talking at once. Let's take tums. Franklin/ Davidson/There is one safety factor.... one impact that is favorable is with emergency vehicle response ..... This area of town (refers to map) has by far the worst emergency vehicle response and that is a direction reflection on the arterial street situation in this area ..... Thomberry/The amount of traffic going up and down Dodge Street past the grade school is significant at certain times of the day ..... Davidson/Tradeoff there between Hoover and Mann School .....We have thought a lot about ~t .....the s tuat~on w~th the elementary school there ....There are elementary schools near arterial streets throughout this city. Baker/It seems to be clear to you that First Avenue Extended would have a negligible impact on traffic patterns and major impact on pace of development? Franklin/No. I think Scott Blvd. would have a greater impact on pace of development in that it would open up a significant area here (refers to map) in terms of access. There still is a sewer requirement there ..... First Avenue will provide secondary access for the First and Rochester Development .... Davidson/... It opens up principle access for Larsons and Gatens property ..... Franklin/ ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 11 Kubby/It is a more standard pattern to go from the west to the east ..... Franklin/Shall we just put this on a list of considerations and go on to another topic unless there is any kind of resolution on this point. Baker/Have that issue go to P/Z and have them respond as well ..... Nov/They have enough to do ..... Kubby/ Thornberry/I think perhaps the west to east arterial, Phase I, Phase II, wherever you are putting the pipe in the ground should he paved at the same time. Franklin/That will be.... scheduled... in FY98 we would pave it ..... Davidson/Project #250 in FY98.... #253 is the paving phase of that .....Remember the FY97 work in that area is just the intersection with the signal .... Norton/But you can't pave any of that East West Arterial until it goes somewhere .... Franklin/No, you can. Thornberry/ Davidson/You conld pave it and then terminate it ..... Vanderhoef/The sewer line is going to go down First Avenue ..... Franklin/Water. Vanderhoef/... we can pave at that grading also. Bakeff (Can't hear). Davidson/ Nov/We need to know what this #253 distance includes. Does it go to the possible intersection with First Avenue? Davidson/It goes past there actually... west edge of ACT's property (refers to map) ...... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October2,1996 Council Work Session page 12 Nov/ Davidson/ Nov/This... #253 goes to the west edge of ACT? .... Franklin/It goes as far as it needs to go to hook up to First Avenue. Davidson/(Refers to map) ..... Nov/1 am on #253 in FY98 Davidson/Phase III which is the first phase goes from here to there (refers to map)... Phase II ... Phase 1 ..... Nov/Am I assuming correctly that First Avenue would connect with Phase III? Franklin/Yes. Council/(All talking). Davidson/The first phase, Phase III ..... Thomberry/ Davidson/ Nov/So there could be some logic in connecting First Avenue to the East West Arterial ..... Franklin/That is what Ernie and Dee have been advocating. Nov/I am willing to look at it but I have not quite been sold. Council/ Thomberry/I would like to look at it sooner. Franklin/Okay, there is four. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 13 Nov/Take it from 97 and put it in 98. Franklin/That is what we are about to do. Nov/ Norton/Is there any room left in 97 for any projects at all7 .... Franklin/It is difficult but we would have to look at the magnitude of the project you wish to move .....also in terms of work time, we would have to move something out possibly. Norton/The three that I am looking at... left tufa lane at Hwy 6, #248, 249, & 250. Franklin/Before we get to those, does anybody have anything from '97 that they wish to move out... delay? Norton/How about 2187 Franklin/We need that for the water project.... grading project ...... Norton/How about Kiwanis Park, is that necessary in '97? Trueblood/ Part of that probably could be moved to FY98. We would like to get a start in FY97 ..... prepared to do a small part of it this fall ..... Nov/There is a certain logic in doing a park development in the spring ..... Trueblood/... That is probably going to take more than next spring to fully develop ..... Thomberry/Scott Blvd. Trunk Sewer extends from where to where? Franklin/... from Sycamore Farms (refers to map) ... That is one that will serve... Village Green and Hines Lift Stations out and it will also serve any industrial development east of Scott Blvd ...... Nov/Things like sewer lines are going to be paid for by Enterprise Funds ..... Franklin/Any other ones... this FY7 ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 14 Norton/#241 Soccer Sycamore Soccer Complex... park adjacent to it. I don't know how much of that is soccer.... Only trying to find some leeway in '97 to move a couple of crucial turn lanes .... Franklin/...let's look at when we move them in.... Can we go onto FY987 ..... Baker/Phase I of Court Street in '98? Franklin/That is in '99. Looking at '98 to move into '97. Norton/#248, 249, 250.... three kind ofimportant turn lane issues ..... Vanderhoeff Fosse/I should start out by saying... important to people that use those areas certainly ..... I need to talk a little bit about the '97 work program and explain if you move something in, we really do need to bump something back out because we are starting out in a bit of a hole here ...... We are going to carry four '96 projects into next summer ..... are carrying over South Gilbert Street Storm Sewer; Gilbert Street RR Crossing, Shamrock Friendship Creek Improvements, and the Park Road Storm Sewer ..... Nov/Rick... notice the River Street sewer lines are breaking every winter. Do you want to move those a little closer? Fosse/The River Street ones we want to do in conjunction with the paving of River Street- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-118 SIDE I Fosse/Sometimes at the point where the service line enters the sewer. So that the main sewer line is in okay shape. Thornberry/If someone's sewer line goes into the city's sewer line and the break is fight there, whose responsibility is it? Is it the property owners or is it 50/50. Fosse/We have somebody there when it is exposed and you can tell ira main line broke and brought the service with it or if the service broke just off the main line and it is a judgment call that is made at the time it is excavated. We have shared in a few of them, 50/50. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 15 Nov/So you check all the water lines while you ate digging up the street also? Fosse/Yes, those are sometimes replaced. Franklin/Okay, so to move those turn lanes we would need to move some projects out of '97. We can look at that. Norton/We have already been over that and there is not much leeway. The one other that I was talking about moving was the Parks Maintenance Building. ttave we already got that started? ...... Trueblood/No, we don't have the project started.... design work.... Other problem we are trying to solve until then. Franklin/Does anybody wish to move anything from '98 back to a later year? Vanderhoeff How critical is that River Street thing? ...... Fosse/Right now River Street has been overlaid a couple of tines and the roadway surface is about the same elevation as the top of the curb ..... problems maintaining the area ...... roadway surface... is a bit of a money put for us ..... I wouldn't delay the hill... Might just as well do the whole thing .... Kubby/ Nov/ Thornberry/When you re-asphalt a street, how long is that expected to last? l~osse/ ...seven to fifteen years .....We do more repairs to try and reach that fifteen year life. Thornberry/... North Dodge ..... Fosse/That one broke as the asphalt was going down .....expansion blow-out underneath the map ...... Thornberry/ Fosse/... indication to get the street on the program for complete removal and replacement. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 16 Thomberry/ Fosse/It has been six years. Thomberry/ Fosse/It is a blow out ......It is a hard one to repair because of the traffic on that street. Norton/... one is the airport. We talked about spreading it. Franklin/Yes, I have some information for you on that ...... Jeff asked Ron O/Neil to put together some numbers for us ..... It is spread out over four years.... $2.9 FY97; $1.7 in '98; $1.4 in '99; and $2.6 in 2000. That is for Phase I of the Airport Master Plan ...... Remember that is a federal 90/10 split ..... Vanderhoeff We pay $1 million spread out over four years. Norton/Landfill had three projects in '98 .....they could slip out a little. Hazardous waste? ..... Vanderhoe17 Davidson/The Household Hazardous Waste Facility that is proposed would be a facility open to every consumer that uses Iowa city Landfill in the county ..... whole county plus Washington and Kalona ..... enable us... to get rid of all the unstaffed drop sites ...... to no longer have the annual... special events ..... facility that would permanently take that .....This is funded through the tipping fee on the landfill ..... Also an Enterprise Fund .....Paid for by landfill fees. Thomberry/Karin, can you see anything... that can be delayed? Franklin/We put this together... staff. .... Kubby/I am concerned about the cost of the GIS .....$100,000 a lot of hardware and software ..... Fosse/The hardware and software costs are just a fraction of that total expense. Real expense to getting the GIS system up and running is collecting your date and getting it into the system ..... That is going to happen over a period oftime ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996, F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 17 Kubby/What is the FY2000, #299, $1.6 million for GIS? Fosse/That is the implementation of the program ..... The pilot program.... two square blocks... just to that... however much area we can cover within our budget and we are going to learn a lot from that ..... Norton/There will be a recurring cost to keep that up to date. Fosse/... that is a commitment/If you don't maintain it, you are throwing your money away. Franklin/A lot ofthls work is done manually... in three different departments ..... Norton/Presumably a more efficient way than what we are doing now. Franklin/It is. Getting there is a chunk of change. Kubby/Do you think the Sycamore Regional Storm Water Detention is realistic FY987 Fosse/A lot of people issues .....agreement on a plan and implementing it .....Engineering aspects are difficult ..... Kubby/ Franklin/I think we can do it .....Any other '98 projects to move out... move back. Norton/Anybody want to slip the library in here? Lehman/I think that is a question ..... Nov/ Vanderhoef/Can you run through.. impact fee ....for the Southside Parking Ramp? And how much that bond might have to go for? Franklin/$200,000. Vanderhoef/ Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 18 Yucuis/We have money in the Parking Impact Fund, $200,000... couple of properties that have come on board and contributed funds. We have the reserve which is approximately $2 million there ..... Then the Parking Operating Fund... that fund balance will help fund the next three fiscal years without having to raise fees ..... We do have some alternatives and we do have some cash available to offset some of the costs ..... Arkins/The cash position of the Parking Fund is sound .....We can put a fairly good size down payment on that ramp. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/Ready to go to FY99. Any projects to go from '99 to '97 or '98? .... Baker/(Can't hear). Nov/What number are you on? Franklin/#282. Council/(All talking). Franklin/Do you wish to move it to '98 I am assuming. Nov/East end of Court Street. Baker/ Franklin / Is your preference to '97 or '98? Baker/'98. Kubby/ Baker/ Franklin/Possibly the East West Parkway, Sycamore to the Detention Basin... #254 Nov/You would trade that from FY98 and put it into '99 and then Court Street into '987 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 19 Franklin/Yeah.... we would have access here to Windsor Ridge in this development ..... limits access to the Langenberg property.... and eventually to the South Sycamore Storm Water Regional Stormwater Basin ..... It is fairly safe to move this one .... Continue to have for our soccer road a rock road from Sycamore down to the soccer fields. Kubby/ Franklin/I think what it might impede... development ofthe Langenberg Tract which we don't have active development interests on right now. Nov/Would it be a rock road that would hold up this long? ....... Fosse/Right now we are putting in a gravel surface ......dust... consider chip seal... Nov/I question the need to delay it... add extra loads of rock to the total cost. Lehman/That is relatively inexpensive. Fosse/...chip seal.. price does begin to jump and your maintenance cost jump then as well. Kubby/ Do people know what they need from the developer to feel comfortable moving that up, a percentage or certain dollar amount? Council/(All talking). Franklin/We can move it with that condition in mind. And I don't think we need to arrive on that tonight. Lehman/ Norton/Karin... Sycamore is surely going to have be done over time ..... Franklin/Yes .....We have it in sections.... Rick can speak to the economies of that. Norton/ Franklin/Activity is probably greater in this area (refers to map) from city limits to the L .... then on the Langenberg properly. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 20 Kubby/I would argue... #280 City Limits to the L .... Franklin/Moved Bums to the city limits to '98? Norton/Yeah ......It may work the way it is ...... Franklin/The difficulty... finding something to switch out. Norton/Hunter's Run Park ...... Franklin/Talking about different kinds of money... different staff work. Kubby/And commitments we made to the neighborhood, too ...... Nov/ Trueblood/We don't have a specific time frame.... neighbors... '98.... looking forward to it. Franklin/One possibility .....#272 and the annual cost for streetscape in the Near Sourside ..... Kubby/Doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to me. Nov/The Iowa Ave streetscape really needs some work .... Franklin/...difficult to move that, Dee. Council/ Vanderhoef/#213, start in '99 instead of'987 ...... Franklin/You mean some of the streetscape improvements in the Southside? What we are trying to build in there is something that is responsive as development was happening. We could do streetscape improvements ..... Thornberry/What is included in streetscape? Franklin/Brick work or sidewalk work, lighting. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 21 Lehman/I think you need to keep it in ..... Norton/Okay, leave Sycamore a mess. Franklin/Okay, anything from FY99 to move back, later7 Kubby/#280. Franklin/This is Sycamore- City Limits down to the L. Nov/Both of those... moved fortyard from somewhere to here. Franklin/Yes... previously out in the out beyond. Nov/Explain to me why they were moved forward. Franklin/Because of development interests in this area that you will, I think, be seeing soon .....activity that we expect to start occurring as a consequence of the soccer complex .....Just a general interest in this area. Baker/Is there a chance.... people are interested... contributing to the cost ...... Franklin/As you move it out, back, later... Ifa developer wishes to develop sooner, then you are presented with either pushing those costs off onto the development or sharing or making a change in your CIP ..... Kubby/Two years back. Franklin/To 2001. Baker/ Norton/... sure going to develop out there... Kubby/In '98 we are paving First Avenue.... We are doing Court Street.... Also going to do to the south next year .....I think we need to pace ourselves a little more so that we can handle our services ..... Franklin/The development that you will have around First Avenue and Windsor Ridge... different kind of development that you are going to have in this area because of the topography. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 22 Kubby/ Norton/I don't see, if we don't' do something with Sycamore soon, how we can respond to the Southside Plan that we just got a copy of. ....shape development out there... get out in front .... Kubby/ Baker/ Fosse/From our experience on Rohret Road... expense in working to match all the existing development that proceeded the roadway.... yards and individual needs .... We built the road to fit the development that was around it rather than getting the road in first. It is cheaper to proceed. Baker/Do you have the r.o.w. and easements already? Fosse/We are getting them as development occurs. Kubby/If we do it first, we pay 100% ..... Norton/ Fosse/Advantages both ways. Kubby/Things that happen around city limits to the L would have to be rezoned, correct/ Franklin/Development happening in the county? Kubby/ Franklin/Yes but I think.... in growth area... subject to the Fringe Area... strong incentives for annexation and development within the city... probably would take place in the city if it is going to happen. Yes, it would have to be annexed... rezoned.... There are opportunities there. Vanderhoeff Franklin/See what the general feeling on moving Sycamore to the city limits out to 20017 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 23 Norton/Too far to me. Thomberry/We could always bring it back in later if development occurs. Norton/Too far for me. Vanderhoef/That is why I want to talk about Public Works. Franklin/Okay, I am sorry, I didn't see the connection. Thomberry/ Norton/Move it a year... I will compromise with that. Franklin/ Vanderhoeff I have not heard that much about the complex... high ticket item. Is this to be at the airport, part of that? Franklin/Yes. Schmadeke/That is where we are proposing... at the airport site along South Riverside Drive. Vanderhoef/ Schmadeke/We hope to consolidate the building that is on South Gilbert Court for the Water Distribution... existing service building at comer ofHwy 6 and Riverside Drive and the rental property that we have at the 4-H grounds.... consolidate all those uses. Thomberry/Property... then be sold? .... Schmadeke/.... to be sold. Franklin/We have plans for 7 acres on the corner there of Riverside and Hwy 6 to market that. Vanderhoef/And those are not in the free zone for the airport? Franklin/No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 24 Vanderhoeff Any idea of what the value is? .... Franklin/...don't have it on the tip of my tongue. Lehman/ Atkins/The appraisal is in the $800,000 range.... appraisal for the Water Distribution Building was $250,000... about $1 million worth of land value on those two sites.... would be intended to be sold ..... $1 million would be financed by at least... four sources: sale of the land.... water funds .....General Fund and/or General Obligation Debt and Road Use tax ..... Schmadeke/We will probably want to move some of that work ahead because of the condition of that service building ..... office area ..... Nov/Do you want to move that whole thing into '98? Arkins/You could but I don't think we could get it done that fast. Nov/ Arkins/We are going to have to do some repair on the existing building ..... Kubby/ Atklns/One of the other site is on the northern portion of the airport.. two sites that we are looking at. We agree that we want to preserve the frontage. Norton/ Arkins/We have not invested in that building in the ten years that I have been here... repairs .... Franklin/Did you want to do something with that one, Dee? Vanderhoeff I was looking at that and I was also looking at third floor of the Civic Center. 1 would be happy to move the Civic Center back to 2000 or 2001. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 25 Arkins/If I can comment on the third floor of the Civic Center. That is really directly relevant to whether we are going to move Assisted Housing over .....Chuck and Karin both have some space problems ..... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/... I recognize you are short on space ..... Kubby/The space at Assisted Housing is not conducive to people working together .... can't communicate very well... problems... Baker/...Urban renewal parcel and the library.... might have a lot of space .... Atkins/Strenuously object to is that we want to keep or departments as best we can under one roof.. ..... Norton/ Atkins] I am not anxious to move Karin's or Chuck's operation out. But I would be anxious to consider bringing Assisted Housing over into this building ..... I would prefer leaving in there ...... We do have... know a little more about our Housing programs at~er the upcoming presidential election ......have our contracts nailed down ..... Nov/I think we institute these two remodeling projects together. Arkins/It works far better for us ...... Kubby/1 didn't get the connection between the Public Works Complex discussion and the sycamore city limits to the L. Vanderhoef/I was just looking at what could be moved in terms of money .....I would be okay with moving that Civic Center back. Nonon/ Franklin/Could we go back to #280 and try to get some closure there .....Some interest in moving it back ..... Kubby/There are three people who said '01 was okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 26 Norton/I am for 00, mysel£ Move both #279 and #280 ..... Franklin/ Norton/Moved #280 out to 2000. Nov/Is there a point in keeping them together. Thomberry/01, what is a year? Franklin/We got a majority for 01. Nov/... keep those two projects ..... Fosse/A package in size of $800,000 is quite attractive ..... It is a good size project for a local contractor. If we do the two of these together, then some of the big boys... might be interested and we could see some economy. Thomberry/ Fosse/ Franklin/If we see that there might be some economies in that and make sense at the time, I think we can bring that to you then. How about if we move that one to 20017 Dee wanted to consider moving the Civic Center third floor .....Police Department also? #287 and #288 to what? Vanderhoef/! am thinking a year .... Lehman/... move it next year .... Norton/Re-look at it. Vanderhoef/! just want to be sure that a couple of things got moved forward have the opportunity. Franklin/Okay, making some space there, Dee. Franklin/FY2000. Anything in 2000 to be moved back to 97, 98, or 99. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 27 Nov/Yes... move that very expensive sewer project .... Franklin/#294 Willow Creek Interceptor. Nov/Yes. I think it is time to move that iaterceptor forward. Franklin/Where ..... Nov/It is very expensive... two FYs .....Some in 98 and some in 99. Franklin/Chuck is saying yes. Kubby/What affect does that have on rates on top of other projects and other projections for increase? Nov/Next topic... how sewer rates are going to be distributed. We can add that to any agenda along the way. Franklin/98. Kubby/ ....more land to industrial .....Streb... Will you check with him? Franklin/Yeah, I am going to see him tomorrow. Norton/ Franklin/(Refers to map). Norton/If we are going to do anything with the airport, that almost has to get underway .... Nov/That is why I am saying we ought to get started on it. Baker/ Nov/The airport schedule is fixing the runways in order for the airplanes to come in and out.... What the sewer line does is give us the potential for industrial development near the airport. Franklin/And it also gives us an opportunity £or industrial development ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 28 Thomberry/In the development south of the airport .... Franklin/In our growth area (refers to map). Norton/It is also serving a need in the west .... Thornberry/Going across the fiver, is that like a pipe going across the fiver? Franklin/It goes down... like your drain. Thomberry/ Franklin/ Nov/It goes down, under the fiver ..... Franklin/ Lehman/ Franklin/This goes under. Do we have four people who would like to move this Willow Creek interceptor from 200 to 98/99. Council/(Yes). Franklin/Okay. Any others to go from FY2000 to 97, 98, or 99. Norton/My little turning lanes, #291 & #292 ..... moved forward. Nov/ .....I don't see it as a problem ..... Council/ Franklin/ Davidson/We had it proposed to expand the capacity of that intersection... that was changed by the council. Norton/...lights down there now. Arkins/We are doing some traffic counts for you .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 29 Thornberry/Gilbert and Kirkwood. Arkins/We have had a project designed to expand tile capacity of that intersection... turned down .... Nov/1 still think we should consider more ofthese five light signals so that if your left turn arrow disappears and you have a green light and there is nothing coming, you still make the left turn ..... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-118 SIDE 2 Nov/It's Burlington Street, it is Riverside Drive ..... Franklin/Are there any other projects from 2000 to 97, 98, 99? Norton/What about #291 & #292... dual left turn? .....I would like to move it to 98 or 99. Franklin/ .... Norton/Dual left turn... in front of Pleasant Valley. Fosse/We have a slot in 99 we could move that into .....Its going to be a challenge. Kubby/On the Gilbert side turning left onto (Hwy)6. Fosse/We are hearing that from both north and south hound traffic. Thornberry/ Franklin/Okay, should we put that from 2000 to 99. It just moved. Anything else? ..... Norton/Can you wait for MoJ~on Trek Storm Sewer?... That is a new one .... Kubby/ Norton/ Lehman/The more development takes place out there, it seems the more runoff we have .... This represents only a reasonably aecnrate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session p~e30 Vanderhoef/That was the one they thought maybe the development would help? .... Fosse/Mormon Trek Village... detention basin on site there was only to mitigate their increase in rimoff...... A wash there ..... Franklin/Anything else.... to move back? All right. FY 2001, anything to move forward, to do it sooner? Kubby/#306 Mormon Trek Sidewalk... was in FY97 shouldn't be quite so far away. Franklin/That was prioritized by the JCCOG Board... Enhancement Funds. Davidson/If the federal money was out of it, it would be a locally funded project. Kubby/ ....give more options for school kids .....The pressures are there. Give kids another option to get to school safely ..... Nov/ Franklin/ ....You can move it and pay for it locally. Kubby/Can there be discussions at the JCCOG level? Davidson/Willow Creek Trail is the project that we decided to do instead of this one ..... Important factors... that portion of Mormon Trek Blvd. is a University institutional road .... Nov/Trail... cooperative eflbrt .... Davidson/They never financially made a commitment to the project. Nov/I thought they were going to design it. Davidson/ Thomberry/#304 in conjunction with Phase I could be possibly flexible. Franklin/That is through Windsor Ridge itself... two approaches... leave it here... developer... pay it through the development .....Or you could do it all at once with this ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 31 Thomberry/ Franklin/If we leave it right here and they want to do it sooner, it is theirs. Norton/What is going to happen with #303? ...... Davidson/That project is in here, Dee, because when we did our traffic analysis model.. street plan... that showed up as a capacity deficient segment. That is why that project is in here ..... Identified deficiency. Norton/ Davidson/...not a lot of problems with that intersection. There are no access points between Sycamore Mall and Hwy 6 ...... Nov/ Franklin/FY2002. Anything that you would like to do sooner? Kubby/Bridges. Are they contingent upon federal bridge money? .... Davidson/Both what are called off system. They are not part of the federal aid system... Program for non-federal aid.... Brookside Drive we are doing this year .... Vanderhoef/.. Second Avenue and Rochester .... Kubby/ Thomberry/Dodge Street-Governor to Dubuque Rd. Franklin/That is the capacity expansion (refers to map).... #309 ......making it then four lane.... past Hometown to HyVee. Davidson/If you want to signalize the intersection of Prairie du Chien and Dodge you need this project. Thomberry/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 32 Thomberry/That is a real bad intersection ..... Franklin/These out years in this whole program, as we get closer, reevaluating these all of the time ..... Anything in out years that you want to move into the program? Kubby/~415 Hwy 6 Sidewalk and Drainage .....give people an option so they don't' have to drive.... Seems important to me. Franklin/This is a project we can break up in pieces. Norton/Move ahead in phases .....grizzly out there. Kubby/ Thomberry/Put that on south side ofHwy 6 ..... Council/(All talking). Davidson/Nice big r.o.w. through there. Franklin/We can look at that in terms ofbreaking that up. Kubby/Shouldn't be left out there beyond. Thomberry/The bridge across the fiver on Hwy 6 does have sidewalks on both sides, right? Fosse/They are not protected from traffic.... I wouldn't really consider them sidewalks ..... Norton/There is one on this list I don't see how we can leave way out there. Benton Street-Orchard to Oaknoll (//403)... near disastrous now, seems to me. Vanderhoef/ Norton/I was appalled to see it that far out ...... Vanderhoef/It's a combination of everything. Lehman/...keep an eye on it ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 OctoBer 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 33 Franklin/We can put it in... 2000. Norton/Put it in so it will come to our attention ..... Kubby/I am assuming that when we continue to talk about d.t and space at the Cultural Center, concepts will be included in that ..... may need to move some of that up ...... NoNon/ Franklin/ We will put together these changes in a revised program.... Look at how moving Willow Creek Interceptor is going to affect sewer rates.... discussion item for you sometime. Nov/ Atkins/We were thinking about bringing the water sewer rate issue back to you as early as your next meeting ...... Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 34 FLIP CHART # 1 Pave I st Ave (move to 98, currently in out) #410 · Court St. Ext. (move from 99 to 98) "with conditions (developer) #282 · E-W Parkway (Sycamore Detention Basin) (Move from 98 to 99) #254 · Sycamore City Limits to L (Move from 99 to 01) #280 · Willow Creek Interceptor Sewer (Move from 00 to 98) #294 · Gilbert/Hwy 6 Dual Left Lane (Move from 00 to 99) #292 · Hwy 6 Sidewalk/Drainage (Move up break in phases)//415 · Benton-Orchard to Oaknoll (Move from out to 00) t/403 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 35 ICAD 96-118 S2 Arkins/ (ICAD information.) I am going to reference a memo that Larry sent to the council back in July. Nov/None of us brought with us. Arkins/Simple and straight forward. Here are the things that Larry requested: 1- Detail break down of revenue expenditures to include specifics... salary .....I am okay with that. Nov/I think their budget probably has that .... Arkins/2- Summary of contacts made by ICAD .....I suspect that we could provide that. I am not real sure they would name names .... Baker/ Arkins/I would like to see ICAD quantify its activities and then analyze them for the council ...... Okay. Quarterly basis I would like to see a complete listing of industrial commercial permits issued everywhere in the county. I suspect that that is public information ..... Nov/ Baker/A lot of it ... economic development... information on what they are doing... Just an accumulation of information may provoke more questions and give you an incite that you don't ordinarily have. Nov/1 understand what you said.... But a list of building permits which may or may not have had something to do with ICAD is my question ..... Baker/May not have anything to do with ICAD but it is a running barometer of economic development. Lehman/ ....why these permits are not in Iowa City ..... Kubby/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 36 Arkins/Remember, I give you the monthly building permits... That is real current information. Council/(All talking). Atkins/I can do that. Baker/ Atkins/If you are happy, I am happy, we will move on. Kubby/...Maybe we don't need it quarterly ..... Arkins/What I would like to do it as Larry's outline ..... Nov/Do it once and let's see what it looks like. Arkins/I am not going to do the work. I am going to call them and say prepare this and get it over here. Ihornberry/ Baker/ Kubby/Are we also committing to having a round table meeting with ICAD... annually7 Nov/I think we said more often than annually ..... Kubby/We are suppose to meet with the county every six months and we don't. Nov/Let's try both of them every six months. Norton/That would be my feeling Kubby/The other thing... October 9, JCCOG meeting.... talk about economic development in terms of the region and us working together. Baker/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 37 Citizen Review Board 96-118 S2 Arkins/What I would like to work from is the draft document ... dated September 27... highlighted ..... salient points .... Step through these critical points and see what we can agree on... Professor Baldus sent over on 30th... I did not get a copy of that yet ..... We just got it ..... I will be happy to share that with you ..... I like to refer to.. is the Purpose Statement. I changed the name to PCRB ...... The PCRB... shall have the authority to review policies and procedures... as needed ..... and upon the request of the City Council or City Manager ..... Norton/ Atkins/I did not write the administrative procedures.... This is a purpose statement... Very clear what the extent of authority is. Kubby/1 think authority gives them more power. Arkins/Responsibility is a better word ..... Kubby/Can we focus on procedure and general duties ..... Arkins/In general principles, are we okay on that? .... Down under Complaint. Definition of complaint .... an employee of the Police Department, that includes all employees ..... Okay. We would supply forms and other information to assist in the process of filing a complaint.... That a formal complaint is someone with personal knowledge of the incident ..... We want someone who has some knowledge .....60 days .....There is a note... all complaints will be received and reviewed ..... Norton/ Atkins/No, 60 days from the date of the incident ...... Baker/ Arkins/I would say we would take the complaint ....have to encourage people to do these things in a timely fashion Complaint Intake .....processed by non-police personnel. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 38 Lehman/... Would it be possible for us to have those forms at the City Clerks Office? Atkins/Sure .....We are trying to make it convenient locations ..... Lehman/ Vanderhoeff There is nothing wrong with having the forms in the Police Department. Atkins/Absolutely not ..... supplying you all ..... Complaint intake will occur at a location other than the Police Department Offices ..... I think there is general agreement on that ..... you can but you do not have to. I don't know where .... Important point is you do not have to go to the PD to get the thing. Complaint intake will include: 1. & 2. straight forward... 3. very important ..... Point is that once it is in, they need to be tipped off that it is occurring ..... Some sort of a central register... for that information ..... 4. Chair of PCRB.... 3-5 days top ..... Next point is we will explain in the letter we received your complaint... here is the process ofhow we will handle stepping through this thing ...... Nov/I think you have to say five business days. Atkins/ I just want it expeditious ..... 5. PCRB must determine... jurisdiction... Is the complaint something they can handle'?..... The actual ordinance that is written will have to have some statement of what that jurisdiction is .....legal opinion ....one of the early decisions has to be jurisdiction. Nov/ Arkins/With respect to the follow-up ..... intake people would have to be trained to say we are not it but you should talk to these folks and be able to give them information .... Bakeff If the complaint concerns a departmental policy or procedure... minor in nature- Arkins/If you file a complaint and say I am no longer going to pursue this, I would say... may I have some reasoning... We will document that I asked you and you told me here is why ..... If we are going to do these things.... close them all out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 39 Minor nature, the PCRB intake person may attempt to resolve the complaint .... That is an administrative procedure.... done by watch commander .....they sit and they talk. Norton/... seems to me most complaints.. resolve it through discussion and mediation .... Arkins/We are talking about it .....Would it help ifI just arranged a meeting with the watch commander...? Norton/First part of the sentence .... Nov/You ought to offer an opportunity to speak to the watch commander without making a judgment ..... Arkins/Point remains that if someone says to complainant ..... something not quite so extreme.... Always encourage doing the watch commander... do it right now ..... Lehman/... least I could do is talk to the person with whom I have a complaint ..... Arkins/No... That can be done... intake person... I should feel comfortable saying how about this... arrange a meeting with the watch commander and officer ...... Norton/ Atkins/... You can meet and be dissatisfied, then we will go formal, okay, too. Kubby/Talking about taking out the word "may". .... Norton/And you will fix the first part of the sentence so it isn't contingent on out judgment about what is an important policy or position. But that offer would go to anybody. Kubby/ Arkins/I wrote this more as an intake person.... Okay, that can be corrected. 7. is straight forward. 8 ..... PCRB may choose to suggest mediation to the complainant... mediation.. informal process. All the parties have to agree to participate. We understand.... mediation ..... Norton/I thought it might be a representative of PCRB rather than all of them. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 O~ober 2, 1996 Council Work Session pa~¢ 40 Arkins/...contingent upon what responsibility you fix with this board.... A PCRB member could be assigned to this mediation ...... board representative that participates in this process .....Human Rights does this.... I envision this mediation involving a board member ..... Nov/...may involve more than one. Atkins/Mediation .....make sure there is reasonable balance... board member being there. Complaint Investigation. The process is formal complaint is undertaken .....filed with PCRB and the Chief. .... Kubby/Do you have to do more paperwork? Arkins/No... expecting formal compliant.... they need to be told simultaneously what is going on ..... Norton/ Atkins/There is a little redundancy... request the chief to initiate an investigation. This is a one step instead of two step ..... So the Chief is to initiate an investigation.... The investigation is to be concluded within 30 days... PCRB .....complex issue... more time .... Kubby/Can the complainant also request more time9. ...... Atkins/I have no trouble with that ..... Nov/ Kubby/ Norton/ Atkinrd What we need to say... any par~y... PCRB will make the call. In the conduct of the investigation, all parties need to be made of their rights. Linda and I will have to work on that ......Investigative reports... confidential... Linda will have to deal with that ..... Nov/Can we ask somebody ... sample form that can be used for such complaints? This represents only a reasouably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 41 Arkins/We will find something for you .... Norton/Go back up and talk about #3. of mine... I would like to suggest a member of representative of PCRB be in the investigation. Atkins/I have no trouble with that ..... We would have to have some sort of confidentiality statement on the part of the PCRB Board member .....I have not concern about letting them participate in the process ...... Norton/...other wise PCRB is totally a victim of what comes out of the police report ..... Atkins/ ..... Kubby/Also interested... there be an option for the PCRB to at the conclusion of the internal investigation, that the body be able to ask for a deeper investigation .....To be able to have the option of doing further investigation that is not internal .... Nov/ Woito! Dennis did a nice little outline... focus on the things that you are talking about... pick and choose. Atkins/Let's talk them through ..... Kubby/ .... Having additional method of opening it up... outside scrutiny.... PCRB to be able to say the investigation doesn't go deep enough .....We want someone else to pick up the ball where the internal investigation stops ...... Lehman/If they are not satisfied with the internal investigation ..... Kubby/... ability to be a little more independent ...... Baker/How are you interpreting Steve's statement ..... Atklns/PCRB may request additional information of the Chief as appropriate. They may also do ..... Nov/... I don't believe the CRB should be given that option without some staff oversight. Arkins/...budget for them up front ...... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the 1owa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 42 Norton/ .... Seems to me if the Board gets the report.... from the investigation in which its representatives have been actively engaged ..... Arkins/I would say the chiefwould have to put forth, in writing, why I disagree... have to be compelling enough ...... Norton/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-119 SIDE 1 Atkins/ Lehman/If they cannot come to a resolution that is acceptable to the committee.... and the complainant isn't happy, they must have the option of doing their own investigation. Woito/I agree. That doesn't intrude- Lehman/ Woito/And that doesn't intrude into the Civil Service. Baker/ Kubby/The fifth one down is what I suggest. Nov/... I just want another step in there to say they do not go out and hire an investigator without clearing it through the City Manager because they don't have funds... tax payers money... We don't' delegate citizens to spend tax payers money without some oversight. AtMn~ Kubby/I prefer that we set aside a small pot of money that is specifically for that. Arkins/I have not trouble with that. Budget $5,000 PCRB contingency.... They can't spend it though without my approval. Nov/ Arkins/ ....they can't spend it without because they are going to enter into a contract which they can't do. Only I can do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 43 Kubby/Permission to do it .... Vanderhoef/Put some sort of a policy there for X amount per case. Atkins/You can put any kind of restrictions on it you want. First all of, do you agree with the concept that you want to allow them to do this, do a second investigation. If they want to do it, they have got to spend money.... set aside an annual appropriation. We will write a policy on that appropriation which means that if you need moneys, you may draw against this account... inform me.... I will sign the contract for you .... Kubby/ Lehman/I really don't envision ofthis occurring. Thomberry/ Arkins/PCRB shall concur finding offact only when clear and convincing evidence is established ..... from an ordinance I read ..... It was a guiding a principle. Before they make any conclusion, it has to be clear and convincing. Woito/It is also something that Professor Baldus recommended .... What he faxed to me I thought was mailed to all of the council members ..... Clear and convincing evidence is a higher standard of evidence required above and beyond preponderance which is like 51-49 ..... not nearly as high as beyond a reasonable doubt .... sort of a middle ground. Kubby/Does the PCRB make a recommendation about discipline or do they talk about it with the Chief?. Atkins/If the PCRB concurs with the complainant they refer their findings to the Chief. ..... If either party disagrees.... Chiefthen must explain his reasoning, too. But under the law, only the Chief can discipline ..... An example... Chief disciplined an officer and the Civil Service Commission added three more days .... Nov/I would like to see internal investigation... be given without the discipline recommendation. Let that come later. Let them evaluate the situation without them hearing anything about how the Chief has already evaluated. Arkins/I got to think about that one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page44 Nov/ Kubby/An independent evaluation without having the answer given to them. Nov/The recommendation of the Chief is X number of days... separate piece of paper ..... Atkins/... The Board is making a decision on behalf of this complainant ..... Nov/This is an evaluation ..... Arkins/I will have to think that one through. Lehman/Job of this Board is a fact finding board .....I don't think it is a function of this board to try to determine discipline. Arkins/Discipline will vary ..... Nov/Does that discipline.. has to be in the investigative report? ..... Woito/I thought part of the whole process was to find out if the police conduct was appropriate under the law and the procedures .....if discipline was appropriate... how much ..... Nov/ Thomberry/I think for the Board to get an idea of a severity of a pending... to get them in the ballpark ..... They can recommend to the Chiefadditional or less ..... I think he has to put... the Board in the ballpark and they can then indicate which base he is on. Nov/Let's say you have an investigative report but you don't have the Chief's conclusion... If you have a decision, does that influence how you behave ..... Arkins/Read my language, "may express their concerns with respect to the severity of the circumstances." ..... "And request the Chief to take commensurate disciplinary action."..... By law only the Chief can issue discipline .... Baker/It does seem like we are saying the Board is not in the position to recommend a specific discipline. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 45 Lehman/Absolutely. Atkins/ Thomberry/You can recommend to the Police Chief. Council/ Woito/I thought this was a review board to review how our internal affairs operates and whether our Police Chief is overseeing and disciplining appropriately for the circumstances .... Nov/ Atkins/The PCRB confirms in their judgment through clear and convincing evidence that the allegations exist. The Chief will initiate discipline. Nov/It is the timing. Vanderhoeff ...don't give the penalty until after they have had an opportunity to read the case. Arkins/The PCRB is not a disciplining agency. They are a review agency .....They do not have this employee's personnel record. Council/ Woito/These people are going to be independent, intelligent, articulate minded .....Their job is to review what the Chief recommends ..... Norton/Goes back to the Chief. Woito/And if they can't agree, then maybe it should go to Steve to decide. Lehman/It would seem to me... personnel file is somewhat inappropriate for this committee ..... Report from the committee. They read through the facts and they either concur or they don't .... Norton/The Board member is on their too.... Comes back to the Board and they are looking at the whole package, the report plus the Chief's recommendation ..... They only have the context of this case. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session p~e46 Baker/ ......It is the review board that establishes the dear and convincing evidence ..... When you say express their concerns with respect to the severity of the circumstances ..... That was my question to Steve. When you say request the Chief of Police take commensurate disciplinary action, I read that to be that the Board was not saying to the Chief we think the person ought to get three days off. We are saying this is a severe case- Arkins/Discipline is appropriate. Baker/Now then the Chief makes the determination ofthe discipline and the Board has the power to review that discipline. Arkins/The review it and comment on it. They cannot issue discipline. Baker/ Nov/I am asking that the Chief's recommendation... not be given to them until aiter they have said this is something that should require discipline. Then let him give them that last sheet ..... It is not what is says. Linda is saying they should have the whole thing in front of them.... then review it. Arkins/What I said is the PCRB may express concerns respect to the severity ofthe circumstances of the case... and request the Chief to take commensurate ..... Kubby/... to be ableto comment and have some opportunity to t~3' to convince the Chief is they think it is too sever or not sever enough. Norton/There must be a chance to do that, I think. Arkins/Bottom line is walking out the door it is only the Chief- Norton/The only question is do they ever get a chance to comment on the punishment. Arkins/There is an advisory role that they play here.... they ,nay not have all the information. Norton/And the punishment that he gives is in a larger context of what is in front of him. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 47 Baker/Review the facts, recommend to the Chief, Chief says .....he says all right in this case, this is what I propose as discipline. Before he finalizes that, he hears a response. Nov/Okay, that is clear enough. Norton/Quickly, write it down. Arkins/I will remember that one. Woito/I think we lawyers feel a little uncomfortable. Arkins/We had better write it down together. Dave Baldus/... seems to me that the Board has to have jurisdiction over the whole case and that they have to know the employment history of the police officer to make a determination of any wrong doing in the first place ...... Seems to me critical... has to know the whole story. I think the CRB has to know the whole story and they should speak both to whether there was a violation and what the appropriate sanctions ought to be ..... Police Chief.... listed violations and punishinents were imposed. That is the kind of documentation that the Police Chief needs to provide for the CRB in my opinion. Thomberry/Wouldn't that representative from the PCRB involved in the investigation be aware of that information. Baldus/ Kubby/ Baldus/ ..... Chief and the Board are going to be negotiating about this ...... I think... the substantive question of discipline be within the jurisdiction of the board. Norton/Does that mean the report of the investigation comes along with the Chief's reading or comments on that finding and his suggestions about punishment? Baldus/I like the suggestion you made about having a ballpark figure.... plus explanation given about how other similarly situated cases have been treated in the past, then the CRB will have something they can give purchase on this issue ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 48 Atkins/Let me tell you how I conduct. An employee supervisor brings to me a recommendation on discipline... step me through the case... Tell me the circumstances and what happened. Tell me about the employee's personnel record. What do you recommend.... I will say, yot, don't have a case and I will consult someone in legal... and we will settle on something. I think the process is very very similar here ..... I think we are okay because it will be incumbent on the Chief to prepare an investigative report and ultimately he is going to have to recommend disciplinary action. The extent of the disciplinary action is going to be upon advice of council and PCRB... He is going to have a bunch of people who are advising him. Kubby/... value olindependence ....If they don't have a conclusion, then it is a more independent conclusion ..... Woito/The CRB will know all prior incidents of this employee. They absolutely have to have all of that information. Kubby/... why do they have to have the Chief's conclusion in front of them before they make their recommendations or their conclusions? Arkins/They don't. I think it would be very helpful. Woito/ Atkins/Wouldn't you want to know how strongly the Chief feels about this. Woito/... You need to know his take on what happened .....what the Chief saw as a problem ..... Atkinsd Can I write this up .... Vanderhoef/The Chief has a history ofwhat has been done in previous times ..... I would suggest that we get the opi~fion from the Police Chief... get it into the ballpark... He is the professional ..... Kubby/It may be different when it is a fledgling board and a more mature board. But I think if we really want an independent review board that I think that overtime they can get dependent on the Chief... I like Naomi's suggestion. ThornbetTy/This is a review board.... DW's suggestion about having a board member on that investigative team. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 49 Kubby/...Naomi and I are saying they should be a little less pulled along by the people that they are overseeing. Atldns/1 need to write something for you to react .... I need to write up some administrative procedures as to how this will be conducted and what is actually is going to go to them, what records are available to them and I can do that. So far we are in basic agreement. Kubby/ Norton/Look at paragraph t/4 & #5 of mine ....Seems to me that is pretty close to an endgame.... Look it over. Nov/I don't like the way you are involving the city council ..... Norton/...felt a little distance from the activity... Are we going to stay close to it. Kubby/We could request annual reports about the trends...kind of complaints ..... Norton/... not only to handle these cases but to summarize them through commenting on policies and procedures. Atkins/Your final three statements I have no trouble with. Nov/ Atkins/I need to go put some more meat on this and give you another draft that is meatier. Nov/One more idea ..... I would think we should consider an ombudsperson of some sort to receive these kinds of complaints.. of other city departments and their interactions with the general public ..... We need to improve community relations ..... For not just the Police Department but others also. A staff person could receive these forms .....That staff person could carry that complaint to the other department .... Kubby/ Nov/The receipt of forms could be one person. The disposition would be CRB for police complaints and staff for the other complaints ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996, F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 50 Atkins/Would you like me to do some research on an ombudsman-person? Nov/1 did ask for some information a state level. Arkins/ Kubby/I have another issue on the last part. All affected personnel may appeal the decision to the Civil Service Commission. I would also like the complainant to have an appeal process. Nov/1 was assuming that was including the complainant. Kubby/... personnel. Arkins/Remember the Civil Service Commission process is one... complainant would be entitled to testiS, wouldn't he? Woito/They can appeal to the city manager... city council. Kubby/Why should we have a different appeal process for one party than another? Woito/Because it is state law. Kubby/Why can't we say that in our community, Civil Service Commission ....citizen complaint .... Woito/Civil Service Commission is totally state law. We are preempted from messing with it at all ..... We can't give them additional jurisdiction or scope of authority ..... But we could appeal to Steve ..... Lehman/ Atkins/Some sort of an appeal process you want. Okay. I am fine. 1 am ready to go back to work. Kubby/I really think that it is important.... One ofthe things that we ask the CRP to look at is kind of a critique ofour handling of the Shaw case ..... Arkins/Specific assignment .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the 1owa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session p~e51 Kubby/...how the city government dealt with it ....To give us some recommendations .... Lehman/How soon do we expect to get this committee organized? .....Rather wait until that point in time to make the decision. Kubby/I think some kind of critique... so that we can improve for whatever the future brings .....We need to do that collectively .....outside body to do it as well as ourselves. Norton/ Kubby/ Nov/We are self critical enough. Council/(All talking). Nov/ Richard Tooney/ ..... I have been a downtowner for about two years... I care very much about the city ..... Did I get from the proposal that if the complainant withdraws the issue, then the matter gets dropped in some way. To me, ira complaint has been brought and if the board has invested time and energy... I do not think the complainant should have the authority by withdrawing the complaint .... Nov/They may do this before the board gets involved. Norton/But not after. Tooney/It is very encouraging to a citizen.... To me the idea of a board to get ... Chief to initiate an investigate assumes that God is still in his or her heaven and everything is right with the world. But it disregards the realistic factual reality present... that the public does not have confidence in the Chief. .... We need to rebuild confidence or trust.... Much merit in an idea of review board... could be reviewing what happened and make its recommendations to the Chief. ....Police Chief should be a part of the investigation ..... Nov/We understand, thank you ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296 October 2, 1996 Council Work Session page 52 Council AGenda/Time 96-118 Side 2 1. Nov/Sunday afternoon, 1:00 to 4:00, Open House at the Fire Department. 2. Nov/Did everybody get this Goosetown letter? 3. Nov/Last call, the Human Rights breakfast, anyone who wants to go and hasn't made a reservation, today is the day, tell Marian. 4. Karr/I would like the copy of the Goosetown let:,er. 5. Karr/Can I have a copy of Dee's comments? 6. Karr/We will need to start 6:00 Monday evening. Special formal meeting at 6:00 for purpose of adjourning to e.s ..... Monday, 7th, 6:00. 7. Nov/We are going to have a memo on potential dates in November and December so that we can plan ahead. Adjourned: 10:15. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 2, 1996. F100296