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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-12-16 TranscriptionDecember 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~el December 16, 1996 Council Work Session 7:00 PM Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Arkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, O'Malley, Fosse, Yapp, Trueblood, Schoon. Tapes: 96-146, all; 96-147, all; 96-148, all. Add_itions To Aeenda 96--146 SI Harry Wolf/I am representing S.G., Inc. this evening and I am asking that you add to your agenda.... an application for a liquor license at 325 E. Washington. Kubby/Is all the paper in? Karr/The paperwork is not quite completed.... I suggest that we add it late contingent on the minor paperwork. All the inspections are done, the Dram Shop is issued. We just have some minor discrepancies in paperwork that time didn't allow us to complete. Nov/And we expect that to be completed by tomorrow night or we expect to deny the license. So we will put it on the agenda. Kaix/We also have a- Karln, will you be talking about the other addition to the P/Z items tomorrow night? Franklin/I don't know what it is. You had better do it. Karr/A motion setting a p.h. on an ordinance changing the regulations pertaining to childcare facilities. Franklin/Oh. Karr/It was apparently inadvertently left off the agenda. We would like to set a p.h. for January 14th and P/Z Commission will review this item at their December 19 meeting. Kubby/What is the subject? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e2 Kant/It is an ordinance changing the regulations pertaining to childcare facilities. Just setting the p.h. Franklin/It is opening up where childcare facilities can locate. Norton/CC-2. Franklin/Yes. Nov/....Can you give me approximation of where it is going to land on the agenda? Franklin/Item 5.... c. Thomberry/Did you want to make any announcement?... about the Shaw shooting? ..... Nov/No, we are going to do that tonight. Thomberry/There is nobody here that is waiting for us to discuss it? Kubby/Not at this point. Norton/I don't think so. Karr/And both items will be distributed tomorrow evening. Thornberry/And notice I said Shaw shooting as opposed to Shaw murder .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e3 Review Zoning Matters 96-146 SI a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for January 14, 1997, on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by changing the use regulations on a 40.7 acre parcel located on the north side of Rohret Road, east of Highway 218, from RS-5, Low Density Single-Family Residential, to OSA-8, Sensitive Areas Overlay/Medium Density Single-Family Residential. (REZ96- 0020) Franklin/Setting a p.h. for January 14... Walden Hills project.... 40 acre parcel.... You will have more information on that before your hearing on January 14. b. Public hearing on an ordinance vacating the north 12.5 feet of the F Street right-of-way for a distance of 75 feet immediately west of First Avenue. (VAC96-O002) Franklin/P. H. on an ordinance vacating the north 12.5 feet off Street r.o.w ..... This was recommended for approval by the P/Z Commission on a vote 6-0... consistent with the staff recommendation.... consequence of development that has occurred at this comer .....F Street is an extra wide r.o.w.... we do not need this r.o.w. for F Street .... Kubby/It doesn't change the curb line? Franklin/No. And we would like to consider at some point ...vacating farther on on F Street. At this point the only thing you are considering is right by the Pelsang property ..... Norton/I can't quite understand what is literally happening ....... Franklin/... I don't think there is a sidewalk on that side... By Pelsang's where they have done construction there is sidewalk and there is parking .... Norton/... Don't we have a sidewalk plan? Franklin/We do not have a sidewalk plan. It could extend down if it were desirable to do so .... We have sufficient r.o.w. there to have sidewalk. We don't need it. Norton/What precedent is set?... Are we going to sell this piece? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page4 Franklin/We are going to sell it ..... You are going to see an alley vacation ..... doesn't necessarily mean disposition, no. In this case it does ..... Norton/People say they have already got it, why pay for it. Franklin/ Norton/Doesn't that set a precedent for what would have to happen on down the block? Franklin/Yes.... It becomes a judgment.... We cannot give away public property by state law. There can be some quid pro quo .... Norton/ Kubby/Since I have been on council, I don't recall a vacation that we dispose and didn't have assessed value... or didn't get money for it .... Norton/I guess I am looking for a little more consistency or coherence but that seems to be escaping me. Nov/ Franklin/I don't know if that is required as long as it fits and works for the people that are involved and us. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 5 Streb Pronertv 96-146 S1 Franklin/Streb Industrial Park. I sent you a memo, a brief little history of this property and how the negotiations regarding it have gone back and forth recently... It appears that we may be able to come to some agreement on the annexation, zoning, and platting of this property for a future industrial park.... point out the particular issues that pertain to this ....... the steps that would be taken atter tonight if the concept agrees generally with the concept that is being suggested. It would go back to the P/Z Commission to actually go through the process of annexation, zoning and platting before it would come to the council again.... in January. You would have it in February. Thomberry/Are the Strebs agreeable to this? Franklin/To the schedule? I don't know, that is about all that is possible given the holidays and the meeting schedule of council and P/Z Commission. Thomberry/Are the Strebs agreeable to the planning? Franklin/I balieve so... give presentation ..... Mr. Downer and the Strebs are here to tonight that could speak to those issues. On the screen is a layout of the proposed industrial park. This east of Scott Blvd., north ofHwy 6 and south of the Iowa Interstate Railroad. This is property which is currently in the county... zoned M-I... effort on the part ofthe city has been to include this property within our corporate limits and have it be an extension of the BDI Industrial Park .... annexation has to occur.... in recent history, always done through voluntary annexations ..... and then the zoning of the property... concern on the part of the city is that we get as much industrial development out of this as possible. To develop land industrially takes time.... BDI took 30 years to build out.... investment... debt service... improvements over time... which most people can't do... Strebs have said that what they will need to do .. is commercial zoning for some of this property so they can get some return on their investment. What they are proposing is that from Scott Bird ..... (refers to plan).... would be commercial ... commercial intensive zoning is the category that is closest to a manufacturing or industrial zoning. With in CI-I, one can have manufacturing of a small scale. It also takes land consumptive uses. It does not permit retail. It does permit gas stations, convenient stores, restaurants ..... (refers to plan)... one access point on a cul de sac ...... good visibility along Scott Blvd. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e6 Kubby/I think a cul de sac that ends there is kind of odd. Franklin/It is odd.... looked at a loop drive .... It would be 130 feet from centerline to centerline of this two intersections... This is Heinz Road... significant track traffic... We would prefer to see for the functioning of Scott Blvd. as an arterial, just the one access point here... Makes this lot attractive for development... has visibility... different sort &use than a driveby .... The other area for commercial development is this area down in here. (Refers to plan).... arterial for area.. probably be more the typical commercial intensive... manufacturing opportunities on some of these larger pieces. Nov/Karin, what are typical commercial intensive areas now? Franklin/Gilbert Street south ofHwy 6 is a commercial intensive. Car dealerships .... warehousing? Nov/Banks? Franklin/I am not sure.... I would have to check the code for that. Thomberry/That area the other side of the airport .... Franklin/Yeah. Also the Highland Court, Gilbert Court area. That is commercial intensive. The other part of the commercial zoning is a 17 acre outlot which is complies as the drainage way that runs through here which would be the storm water detention area and also would be the route for the Scott Blvd. trunk sewer. The Strebs have asked the city consider taking over ownership of this property for outlot... possibility... also possible that this could make a nice green space that would require some kind of joint design between the Strebs and the city if we were to take it over.... The remainder of the property.... which I am defining now with the pointer (refers to plan) would be industrial zoning and that has that frontage along Iowa Interstate Railroad which is useful.... relatively fiat land... availability of a number of large lots .....That gives you the picture of the plat and the area... zoning. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 7 There are some other issues that 1 would like to talk about.... other issues.. provision of municipal services and annexation. When this project came before the P/Z Commission as a county subdivision, it came with the assumption that there would be municipal services of sewer and water while this project was in the county. One of the reasons for the Commission recommending denial of the plat .... was because of this very large issue of sewer and water being provided to a development that was in the county. It has been a policy of the city not to do that.... With the arrangement that I have just described to you in terms of the zoning, the Strebs have agreed that they would annex their property to Iowa City. That would then allow all of that property to be served by municipal services consistent with our policy.... they would install all of the infrastructure for this project at the outset... To put in all of the sewer, water and streets for this property ..... to allow it to be available for development is a significant investment on the part of the Strebs. That will... give us industrial land that is zoned for industrial ..... We will then... have land to show .... Kubby/ Franklin/The Strebs would be putting in sewer, the water, and the streets as I understand it. Baker/Is there a schedule? Franklin/At this point I don't know if there is a date schedule ..... The idea is that at the time ... all the work is being done for the commercial, it would also be done for the industrial. Norton/How would you know how to put it in without knowing what was coming it? Franklin/We always.... the standards would be known.... That doesn't mean Dee that it is taking it into the lot. It means it is installing it along.... It is not the service lines for the actual buildings ..... Norton/ Kubby/When this comes back to us, will we have some knowledge... we need to get sewer and water to the site.... oversize... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 8 Franklin/... what we are doing for the project... is the Scott Blvd. trunk sewer which is scheduled for this FY... construction will begin this summer .... That is the one that will then serve Village Green and BDI. The Heinz lift station and Village Green lift station will be eliminated. Norton/How will storm water on the industrial section be handled? .... Franklin/This basin... we will figure that all when we plat it.... storm water calculations... It goes south and west and down into the Snyder Creek Bottoms. Nov/And we are understanding that Streb is going to construct the basin7 Franklin/Yes. Some of the other issues... platting or design issues and those we have discussed with the Strebs attorney. The change in commercial development up here (refers to plan) has been accomplished. The reorientation of 420th Street ..... will be an arterial... must connect with another arterial.... One of the requirements of the plat... was that 420th had to T into Hwy 6 .... Kubby/And that is a project the city would do? Franklin/Not necessarily. Nov/Is that intersection very close to the other one? ..... Franklin/(Refers to plan). We will have to look at that again through the platting... design issues at that time .... Thornberry/ Nov/I am just wondering why they would construct another street so close to the intersection of 420th.... check it out .... Franklin/... The last issue.... Strebs are very interested in. The ability to have tax increment financing for the businesses that come into this area for the industrial, not for the commercial.... A tax increment financing is one of the tools that we have to encourage industrial development and basically what they need to know at this point is is the council open to looking at tax increment financing for developments on this property. To distinguish that from tax abatement, what that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 9 means is that we would designate the area an urban renewal district for the purposes of economic development and the area that would be designated would be the industrial zoning only. Then as a business came in, we would have to set up some kind of agreement ..... when this came back to you, you would have some scenarios of how we might do tax increment financing here. Tax increment financing is just taking that increment of added value.... and putting it toward something.... public improvemerits... assistance to the business directly.... look at all of that.. If you are agreeable to the general idea of using tax increment financing for fostering industrial development on this site. Kubby/Can you do it for only certain kinds of development in the industrial zone? .....My interest in this is creating jobs .....To not allow the TIF is, for example, it is for warehousing? Franklin/I think it is possible to do that ..... We have out Financial Assistance Guidelines already ..... target certain kinds of industry .... Nov/ Franklin/One possibility is that we set up a urban renewal district a head of time so that that step is taken care of.... Nov/Okay, let's do it. Franklin/Basically all I need tonight is is what I have laid out for you in terms of the zoning pattern, the investment in the infrastructure, the annexation and the possibility ofa TIF agreeable to you to the point that I can take this back to the P/Z Commission to have it go through the formal process? The Strebs need some indication. Kubby/... Are there characteristics of the area that are slated to be cormnercial that make it unattractive or infeasible for it to be industrial? Franklin/Certainly the area along Scott Blvd. is a size and configuration which make it very difficult for industrial... (refers to plan).... By its location and with the CI-I, there is still the possibility... for it to be manufacturing. Kubby/Are there any sensitive features? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 10 Franklin/A stream corridor which will be within the- Well, the trees have been taken out. The corridor will have some realignment and will need that for the sewer project also. That will be within an area which should constitute... buffer under the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. The whole property has been evaluated for wetlands by Wayne Petersen. There were found to be no jurisdictional wetlands there. Kubby/Does our Sensitive Areas Ordinance speak to the need to do certain things with storm water management here to protect the Snyder Creek Bottoms which this drains into? Franklin/No. Kubby/I would need that issue to be talked about at P/Z. I would like it to be talked about.... We know that that land drains into Snyder Creek Bottoms.... I think that issue is a very appropriate and logical one. Norton/The storm water business takes a lot of looking at... They are draining an awful lot of territory. Kubby/We have made one developer protect that .... I want to make sure there are four people to make sure that P/Z will talk about that issue.... that it could possible be a condition. Norton/You mean the protection of Snyder Creek ? Thomberry/It already drains into there. Kubby/...storm water.... lower quality. Lehman/I have no problems looking at it. Vanderhoef/I don't either. Norton/We ought to look at it. Franklin/Okay, that is four. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 11 Norton/What is the situation about the sidewalk along that east side of Scott? Franklin/I don't think there are any problems with sidewalk in the commercial area at all. We do have some debate continuing about sidewalk in the industrial area. Norton/Along Scott ..... Franklin/Sidewalk along Scott is not a problem. Norton/I think it is a very creative effort ..... Thomberry/I have seen it... been involved with it ..... I would have pushed pretty hard for another entrance to Scott Bird ......Are there sidewalks by the manufactured housing area? Norton/Not on that side. Franklin/Not yet. That was property developed in the county. We can put sidewalks m there anytime we want to... spend the money. Thomberry/As far as putting fire hydrants, etc. on the street that has got the ¢ul de sac into the industrial area- Franklin/We are working through those.... We are working through the fire hydrant issues and the sidewalk issues. Those seem to be fairly minor. Thornberry/ .... chances are if you require a fire hydrant in a specific location... that is exactly where they want their parking lot. Nov/ Thornberry/... I can see putting in the line .... Nov/We can let P/Z worry about this plat. Franklin/You will have your chance again. Nov/P/Z is going to worry about this. This repr~ents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting ofl)ecember 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 12 Thomberry/I am not concerned about that. I am not concerned about the sidewalks in the industrial area until the industry goes in. Lehman/Go for it. Nov/Thank you, Karin. Kubby/...when this comes back to us, important for me is maybe a list of what the Strebs responsibilities are and the cost of those things ..... and the responsibilities that the city is going to be taking on by improving the annexation and the cost of those things and any other entity that is investing and I would love to see the county is here, too ..... Their role in this was to change the zoning so that it was more industrial. I would like to see some other kind of involvement and partnership with the city and Strebs on this, like money. Franklin/I will let you guys take care of'that, okay. Thomberry/ Kubby/To list again the sidewalk, the sewer, the storm water detention ....Just to look at what the partnership means Franklin/We can do that. Norton/ Thornberry/ Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e13 Riverfront Trail Presentation (Jeff Davidson and Casey Cook 96-146 SI Davidson/Myself and Casey, Rick will also be part of the presentation here. You received the memo from Rick and I which addressed.... couple of things you asked us to look into. The issue is the proposed CIP project which is in for the next construction season... Burlington Street down to Sturgis Ferry Park ..... I think Kick and I would like to preface the discussion by saying there are a number of loose ends... It may be that we are not able to tie all of those up.... We do... have a deadline because of the federal aid money that is part of this.... December 30... everything has to be to the IDOT.... There may be some issues that we may want to take a little bit longer to resolve. And this is a very significant project .... If we need a little bit more time to tie up those loose ends, let's do that. We have the opportunity to switch an FY98 trail project, Willow Creek. That one is much tidier... do that next year.... Simply saying that is an option that is out there .... A couple of issues.... You asked us to investigate for the portion between Buffington Street and Benton Street.... not going along the river.. rather reconstructing sidewalk on Riverside Drive...concerns... our recommendation is not to pursue that option.... cost savings.. but we really feel like there are some concerns with respect to the constrained r.o.w.... safety there.... At this time our recommendation to you would be to not do that. Constructing the trail in phases is something that we can have some discussion about. We are not opposed to that idea. This is certainly grown to the point where it may be appropriate to break it iuto phases. Rick and I have indicated a scenario that would be satisfactory. There are others. I think Casey is going to tell you.. different ideas about phasing it .... There has also been some discussion among some of you... redesign of taking it across the river at Benton Street... indicate to us tonight.... I have mentioned to you... Master Muffler property has come to us.... indicated... they would not like us to reconsider and look at going behind the Master Muffler and the Dairy Queen properties. We have not discussed this with the Diary Queen people yet ....The individual at Master Muffler does feel very strongly fight now... concerns .... Thomberry/If you would like someone to contact those people in person that went south, I would be more than happy to ..... Davidson/We do have $400,000... portion of which may be available to the City of Iowa City from the Melrose West Project.... At JCCOG... discussed a policy for these unused funds.... January 22, JCCOG is where we will be discussing that .... At least This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Decem bet 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 14 a portion is not all of that $400,000 could be made available for this project according to the rules that JCCOG has adopted. I did want to just address some of the financing aspects.... basically, not a concern Whatever you decide you want to do can be fit into that bond issues in February or March .... Kubby/If we break it into phases, we are still going to have to do bond issue? Davidson/... Either if you wanted to do part of this project in the next construction season or if you wanted to accelerate the Willow Creek Project,. Yes, there would be GO bonds sold .... Kubby/It seems to me if we are paying interest, then we might as well do it all at once and realize some cost savings by doing it all at once .... Norton/1 need to hear.. phases... several different segmenting processes or possibilities. Nov/Do you want it segmenting or do you want to get it done all at once? I would like to get it done all at once. Norton/I don't know whether that is realistic .... Nov/We are working on the easements now... wise to do it now .... Lehman/Where does that trail go when it gets out to the airport? Davidson/South of the airport, Ernie,... have it terminating at Sturgis Ferry Park.... In the long range.... Mesquawkie Park... Vanderhoef/There is also a trail that is coming in from the west .... Casey Cook/(Refers to map). The key thing is to be able to get bicyclist out of town so they can get down here onto South Riverside Drive... safely .... Fosse/With regard to scheduling... If you decide to go behind Master Muffler and Dairy Queen, that takes at least that segment out of the running for this year because we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 15 are not in the position to get that designed in the mill with everything else that is akeady moving there. Vanderhoef/So you are saying go with Willow Creek this year and move this whole thing.... wait a year. Fosse/If you want to do it all at once and you want to go behind Master Muffler and Dairy Queen, then do it next year. Vanderhoef/I would really like to take a look at going across the fiver for that last segment at this point in time.... Make sure trail get down to Napoleon Park ..... Kubby/ Vanderhoeff On Benton Street bridge and then go down the east side of the fiver and go down by Sand Lake .... Davidson/We do have a nice eight foot sidewalk on both sides of Benton Street Bridge- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-146 SIDE 2 Davidson/Go under Benton Street Bridge.... once you get on east side of the fiver... City Carton area is a little bit problematic... then you get onto the Sewer Plant property.... We would be able to get under the Hwy 6 bridge on that side of the river.... At that point... is a spit of land... (refers to map).... we do control that with respect to Kennedy's Waterfront Addition.... problematic with Metro Pavers .... designed such with a fence... further down.... some Southgate Development property... completely new design issue for us. Cook/There is some real problems with the Ockenfel parcel right there. John is very much opposed.... alternative is t bring it down Benton (refers to map).... advantages and disadvantages... I see this as potential for delaying this thing 2-3 years .... Thornberry/What does Arie Kroeze think about that? Cook/We are not going to be on Arie Kroeze.... a lot of sewer work going on there .... Baker/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 16 Cook/If we try to stay close to the river, that could delay the project 2-3 years. (Refers to map) .... Vanderhoeff Other thing I have been concerned about when we go on the west side.... it doesn't tie up as neatly with some of the park situation that we have... also got our soccer field down to the south.... to the east.... don't have to worry about a fiver crossing.... make a circulation there connecting some major high intense use parks. Norton/What are the virtues of delaying all ofthis.... next year? ..... Davidson/We want to give council the opportunity... If you want to implement this project as designed, with the cost estimate that we have given you, we want you to have the opportunity to do that .... Thornberry/The $1.3 to 1.5 million? Davidson/That is right, Dean. Kubby/Cheaper than doing a road that long. Davidson/... If you are interested in pursuing Dee's idea... that pretty much takes us out of the running for '97 and puts us into '98 and we would take action to switch the Willow Creek Trail .... Kubby/FY98 is coming up very soon .... Davidson/We would be working on all of these design issues between now and this time next year .... Norton/But the question of routing it across the river and taking it south .... Kubby/... my gut reaction is let's go with the plan... argument strong... Napoleon .... Davidson/Napoleon is the higher intensely used park. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 17 Davidson/P/R does intend to refurbish up Sturgis a little bit .... Kubby/Serves a function of getting bicyclists out of town as well on that side.... I would be interested in hearing... P/R ... Cook/We did have a meeting... letter from P/R and also from Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission... consensus.... One of the big concerns (refers to map) between Benton Street and Hwy 6, price on that is like double the price (refers to map) ..... Consensus was for not to leave a gap here is the funds that have been committed... leverage of about 40% federal and University to 60% city funds if we leave out that gap. With that portion completed, we are talking about closer to 20% leverage. I£we bring in $400,000, I don't know what the reference is from all those groups.... Phasing it... resolving some of these issues, I don't think you would get a lot of opposition .... Davidson/Is there a majority of council that is interested in us pursuing the east side of the river ideas? Council/(Yes). Davidson/That then puts us into 98 with the River Corridor Project. ls them then a majority of you that would like to shift Willow Creek to '97? Council/(Yes). Davidson/Okay, so we have a majority there. How about Master Muffler and Dairy Queen7 Thornberry/Pass on the west side for now. Norton/Go behind. Thomberry/ Davidson/ .... Norton/Go behind Master Muffler. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 18 Nov/ Thomberry/ Vanderhoef/ Norton/First thing after the parking lot, Dean. Thomben)'/Expensive. Lehman/I don't think you can put it in front of those places .....Riverside Drive is so busy .... Norton/Extremely difficult ten'itory. Lehman/... If we put it in, it has to go behind. Kubby/Some people have talked about the possibility of putting the trail behind Master Muffler and Dairy Queen.... not quite in the alignment.... decrease the length of the retaining wall.... reduce the cost ....Is that a possibility that we could also be looking at? .... Fosse/Those are certainly things we can look at .....We can still see what can be done there. Davidson/ Nov/If we go to revise this design to the river side.... Can we get those easement free of cost? Davidson/There are some already ..... l would assume our negotiations with the property owner.. enhanced by the fact we are approaching this from the design that they would like to see .... Nov/ Davidson/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 19 Cook/... Dairy Queen sign.... historic sign.... difficult question .... Nov/My concern is that we don't have to do condemnation or easements.... there is already a sidewalk there ..... Kubby/When we have the trail system.... more people.... higher use ..... Lehman/There might be a reasonable tradeoff.... in return for not putting it in front of their business, we might get a fairly amiable .... Kubby/ Davidson/What we need to do with the Dairy Queen folks is get with them... see if we can work something out .... Cook/I wouldn't make a final decision on that... people were opposed to running the thing along the sidewalk ....I think we should stay flexible on how we negotiate with the Dairy Queen. Davidson/We will ask you tomorrow night to delete the item or to defer the item to acquire easements since we are not sure now what easements we will be acquiring... indefinitely tomorrow night. The final thing... majority of council.... pursuing reallocation of the $400,000 for this project? Is that something the council is interested in? Council/(Yes). Davidson/The other federal aid project for Iowa City that is hanging out there is the Melrose East Project and Rick- Fosse/The completion for the design on that is getting closer. We will get a timer cost estimate soon. We may want to send some money there as well. Davidson/We will know that before the 22 January ....Melrose not withstanding... looks like a good place .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WSI21696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 20 Jazz Feat Presentation (Mark Ginsberg) 96-146 S2 Nov/Ja~ Fest, Mark Ginsberg. Mark Ginsberg/ .... The Iowa City Jazz Festival is now going on its 7th year. I did have a little speech here... I think the economic development.... brings to d.t. Iowa City .... a sense of community.... the nelghborhood.... The neighborhood is a product of our moral imagination... social construct.... it is whatever we allow is to be ..... If too few people step up and take responsibility, the community fails.... The sense of community is more keenly about what brings you together than what keeps it apart.... foster a collective common good... safety... people look at for one and another.... art of our d.t. community that brings us closer together.... acceptance of differing cultures and ideologies... aspires us to co-mingle....interactions and cultural exchanges that are already taking place.... Public art... Fountain, Friday Night Concert Series, Iowa Arts Festival, Iowa City Jazz Festival, Homecoming Parade, Parson Technology Hospice Road Races ..... something people care about and participate in... think about a community in general and what we are trying to articulate as a community. People need a sense of self... acceptable.... All I am asking is that you consider... for any program that wants to keep the community alive.... you consider funding a seed.... in perpetuity .... Nov/Did you bring a budget, Mark? Ginsberg/I am going to show you the video? Nov/Did you bring a budget? Ginsberg/I gave it to you. Nov/lwant a proposed budget. Ginsberg/Let me tell you what we are thinking about for '97. Last year we spent $55,000 for nine acts. The community paid $5,000 for that... City of Iowa City... We brought nine basically.... programs.... the event was free... we will continue to keep this event free ..... issue is do we continue to keep a cultural presence in this community... fabric interesting.... Do we keep it interesting? ..... Norton/We never got a number. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 21 Nov/... I think what yoo are saying is you don't have one yet ..... Kubby/So Mark, in terms of our budget discussion, we will get a specific request from you and see an approximate budget for this next festival? Ginsberg/Yeah, you will. (Presents video show-narrates the video)... Jazz festival has supported both recruitment... students.... We have about 17 restaurants in the streets.... southeastern portion of Iowa. We brought in close to 25,000 people in two day... influx of cash into the community of $400,000 for two day period... multi-cultural event... Iowa City Jazz Festival was voted one of top ten jazz festival in the country.... rebroadcast twice.... 200 stations across the country ..... future years we have headliners lined up.... Point is you can look and see what this does for the community.... asking you to help seed us ..... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-147 SIDE 1 Nov/Thank you, Mark. Kubby/Your statement will make a great editorial about community. Ginsberg/I just sent this in .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e22 Pedicab Insurance 96-147 Sl Nov/Who is going to talk about insurance, Kevin? Pedicab insurance. Karr/Kevin and Dennis, along with Linda and I, prepared the memo that is in front of you and are available with any questions. John Weber is here also from the Pedicab Company.... options .... Baker/Clarify our liability for no regulations. Nov/No licensing at all. Karr/From a legal aspect or risk management aspect7 Nov/Risk management. O'Malley/Obviously it is reduced quite a bit but I don't think it would be eliminated. I think the Legal Department may disagree. I always think there is some vicarious liability that we were doing it and then we stopped doing it. Nov/Oh, okay. O'Malley/ Karr/Bottom line is that it is a specialty insurance and that it does cost ..... Woito/Larry, your question is do we have increased liability if someone gets hurt after we no longer license Pedicabs? No. We have the same liability that we have with anybody getting hurt on a city street. Karr/ Woito/ Kubby/I don't have a problem with the city licensing pedicabs.... I would want to put the insurance requirements down .... Nov/Ifwe license them, we have some implied responsibility and the State of Iowa does not require motorists to have insurance ..... There is no liability on the city or on the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 23 licenser ira person without insurance knocks you down on the street. However that person is going to sue the owner of the pedicab .... Kubby/So you are saying, ifthey can't be at the level that our risk management people are saying that you would be in favor of no licensing at all. Norton/If that is the only way we can get there... either reduced and don't do anything and just let it happen. Nov/I don't want to sanction a reduced insurance... If we don't license them, then it is entirely their responsibility. Norton/ Nov/ Thomberry/But you are not restricting anything then... Karr/We do inspect pedicabs. We inspect vehicles for hire on a yearly basis. Thornberry/Even if they are not licensed? Karr/No, right now presently all licensed. Norton/ Thomberry/I think they need to be licensed ..... Nov/ Thornber~/....If we don't license them but we let them operate, then anything goes. Nov/ Kubby/Is a camel your worse case scenario7 Norton/An alligator. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa Cit3' council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 24 Kubby/Are there things you are thinking of specifically? Thomberry/Give me a minute or two. Baker/If you are talking about opening it up to anything, deregulating alternative transportation... problem with horses, for example, on clean up ..... Nov/We still have an anti-litter law, right? Baker/I prefer no licensing requirement for this sort of stuff. Norton/ Thomberry/ Kubby/Other communities are not licensing and are not having camels or alligators or whatever. Norton/ Vanderhoef/ Lehman/If it turns out to be a problem, we can always revisit it. Karr/So is it council's wishes to remove horse drawn vehicles and pedicabs and leave motorized vehicles for hire only? So we change the ordinance and resolution? Nov/I would have no problem with them applying to be licensed if they carry the correct insurance. Thomberry/I would like to have them licensed but reduce the insurance... to be in business means certain things... taxes.... licensing .... Council/(All talking). Nov/I won't license somebody who won't carry the insurance .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Dece~nber 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 25 Lehman/I really really can't understand why a pedicab has to have the same insurance as a taxicab. Nov/... passenger is likely to be injured in a taxi. Lehman/Pedicab is primary in d.c. area .... Nov/Drunk driver is going to hit it anyway .... Norton/You would go along with no licensing? Nov/That is right .... John Weber/... I had a friend of mine who worked with pedicabs for 15 years....Chico, California.... over the course of his business experience, none were ever hit. Karr/Is there four who would like to remove it or is there four- Other thing that you haven't considered yet is the fact that if you reduce the insurance, are you going to do restrictions... different operating conditions.... not limited by ordinance. Kubby/ Karr/ Thomberry/For big bucks ..... Weber / Cabs aren't designed to go up very large hills .... Council/(All talking). Norton/..is it is some civic sense irresponsible to let them just operate and worry about it later? ..... Atkins/Irresponsible is an awful harsh word. We don't license businesses as a matter of practice .....issue ofpublic safety.... I have trouble with the word irresponsible, Dee. Baker/More concerned about the safety ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e26 Atkins/You have someone using the public thoroughfare for hire, putting them in a vehicle. I think there is an implied responsibility on the part of the city government or the local government to do your best to protect those interests. Baker/ Arkins/...type of service that John offers- Norton/Do you have to be licensed by the state? .... Karr/No. Thomberry/No light restrictions? Webeft The only light restrictions I have are required by the city. Thomberry/ Weber/ Kubby/A bicycle at night has to have a light. Thombert3,/ Kubby/Bicycles do not have to be licensed. Thomberry/ Norton/ Council/(All talking). Vanderhoeff Let's try it without licensing. Kubby/I agree. Norton/Going to go without a license for a while to see what happens. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 27 Karr/Are there four people who want to- would we also drop horse drawn vehicles at the same time for the same concerns or not? Vanderhoef/ Nov/We don't have any? Karr/Not at the present time .....should we re-write it for motorized velficle only. Kubby/... are there any other issues in terms of animal safety conditions that we need to worry about with a horse drawn vehicle? .... Karr/Not under this section of the code ..... Kubby/...I would say take that out, too. Baker/What about cleaning up after horses? ..... Karr/I will check that.... Interest to do both and just limit it to just motorize vehicles. CounciV (All talking). Karr/We will prepare it and it will be on the next agenda for yeur consideration. Nov/You are just going to delete the word out of the current ordinance ..... Council/(All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 28 Cemetery 96-147 Sl Nov/What are we doing here with the cemetery? We have all this information. Kubby/Can we talk about stuff that is in here since it was confidential? Nov/I don't know. Woito/You bet you can talk about it ..... Kubby/Your note is this memo can be published if you so choose. Woito/ ....sometimes ! have sent you memos that you wish I hadn't sent you .... Nov/How do we want to start this? Baker/What do we need to resolve tonight? Nov/I don't know what we need to resolve. That is why I am asking .... Kubby/We have heard back from the family and do we want to flow their wishes or not? Norton/...some compromise. Thornberry/..only 5-10 acres. Norton/I thought if we could get around 10 acres ..... Nov/Only one of the descendants said it was okay to take 5-10 acres. The others all said take the whole thing. Kubby/ Thornberry/I think we have a duty to the heirs of the property .... Norton/I think there are other trades possible... if you can get 10 acres in 30 years... come up with a trade.... trade for some other space .... Kubby/Be more specific .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 29 Norton/For example, you could keep Hickory Hill and use some of the Woods property for cemetery expansion.... park use is also important. Lehman/.. I would like to see us ask... turn this over to P/R Commission and let them carve out ... least intrusive into the area.... total availability for 40-50 years ..... could we then take balance of the property and have a permanent dedication for parkland. Kubby/Are you including looking at Section A....? Lehman/Leave it for P/R. Norton/...scatter area .... Lehman/Possibility of expanding that.... there will be no further expansion. Kubby/I would be open to seeing what that looks like .... Lehman/...contact the family ..... Kubby/With the understanding that we are also... looking for much longer term providing this service on west side possibly. Lehman/I have another idea on that, too. Thomberry/... I don't really want to revisit Hwy. 965 at this point. Kubby/Important for family to know... not abandoning long term cemetery issues .... Thomberry/... we have forever.... city owned cemetery... duty and obligation to maintain that cemetery.... With P/R going to the family... if you could use this much ..... Norton/I would agree with you... desirable to abide as close as we can with the family wishes ..... City is free to make other decisions at this point.... It is possible. Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 30 Vanderhoef/ Baker/I have no problems with using all 30 acres for future of that cemetery.... as long as we are adding parkland nearby or someone else ..... Thomberry/ Nov/It is open green space even if it is cemetery. Norton/Why don't we see what can be done along the lines that Ernie is talking about ..... 10 acres.... present that plan to the fa~nily .... Lehman/If we use the entire 40 acres.... are portions of that property .... Baker/ Lehman/...Family would be interested in preserving the integrity of the topography... compromise would be in the best interest of both the family... Woito/Can I suggest that you order a topographical map of this....? Thornberry/We have already got that. Woito/That is an aerial .... Thornberry/... lfthey could actually walk it with Parks ..... Kubby/There should be some conversation ..... If we end up taking any functional parkland away from Hickory Hill, replacing it.... for Hickory Hill.... that is what the goal is. Thornberry/It was already deeded as cemetery. Kubby/That is a technical legal situation .... Thornberry/...and they are compatible anyway .... Baker/There are environmental limitations .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 31 Vanderhoeff I don't think we have a whole lot of space .... Council/(All talking). Woito/I believe there is a member of the family... taking notes... Judy Slezak/I am the great granddaughter of Christian Gaulocher. What is it that you want from me? Nov/Do you want to comment on our discussion7 Slezak/My feeling is that we would like to keep it all within the cemetery land. Let us take what is needed now for 30 years and let the park use it as the park and then sometime down the road, if more is needed, take another portion in. Norton/So you wouldn't go along with having any of it converted in perpetuity to park? Sleza!d They can use it but I still would like to see it all cemetery land. Kubby/... other land... how do you feel about switching....? Slezak/I would like it in the same area as present cemetery. Baker/ Slezak/I would like to walk through .... Thomberry/ Nov/...fill a ravine... change.... engineering decision have to be taken into account .... Baker/Don't have to have fiat land for a cemetery. Norton/There may be limits, Larry .... Nov/We really cannot use it because of terrain problems. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 32 Woito/Maybe we can walk it with Terry. Thomberry/Walk it with the Park people ..... Nov/ Baker/We sort of all seem to agree that it is very feasible to get at least 30 years... Well, the majority .... Thornberry/There are four votes. Norton/I think we can do that ..... Kubby/I would like to hear from Terry... consulting.... maximizing our current cemetery space. Trueblood/We are still trying to find a cemetery consultant... design planner fairly close to home.... Regardless of what we do.. important to pursue that... need to maximize the use of that land .... Clarify... keep hearing two different figures. One is 30 years and one is 10 acres... two vastly different numbers .....maybe 5 It2 acres... 60... years out of that ..... Thomberry/You could walk it and see what would make sense. Trueblood/ ..... Norton/ Trueblood/With plan that MMS... disturbing about 7 acres to get 5 useable.... We do need relatively flat ground for cemetery space... burials... maintenance... visitation... snow removal... Baker/Current cemetery... Trueblood/Varied... older sections ..... fairly steep.... we don't have a vault policy...right now we are virtually sold out ofthe prime spaces .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 33 Kubby/P/R said we don't want to take any land from Hickory Hill for cemetery.... Want us to acknowledge... would like to hear back from them .... Council/(All talking). Deb Liddell/I arn the outgoing chair to P/R Commission ..... As I see it... bothersome.... In July I was directed to ask the council.. Do you want to expand the cemetery and do you want a recommendation regarding that and I was assured by a memo from Steve Atkins that yes, you would interested in our recommendations, opinions... thoughts.. advice and our guidance.... September 18... input... and we voted ....5-2 against even pursuing the engineering study.... We were very oppose to encroaching in what has been used as Hickory Hill Park.... ought to be sending you this message.... Following week we learned you authorized entering into a contract for this engineering study... November 13 we had a work session with you... le~ there under impression... agreed upon... that we were opposed into the park. Less than a week later we found out that the council had reversed itself on this .... Today... ask you to consider this. I want you to be clear about why you are making this particular decision because it is really confusing to me ..... First question... whether or not that is financially feasible... we thought no.... Second .... Is it enviromnentally sound?... Primarily the Commission thought no. The third thing is whether or not this is what the neighbors want ..... No, it is not what the neighbor want.... Whether this is the best long terms decision you can make for the city or are you making this decision because you are afraid you are going to end up in court? ..... Concerned that primarily we need to make a long term decision.. minimize encroachment.... This has had a real affect on me.. footnote to cemetery issue... my experience as a commissioner.. two of great things about being a commissioner.... wonderful staff.. park advocates... My most frustrating experience.... has been this past fail and dealing with this particular council... wasn't listened to.... I want you to take a serious look at your relationship with the people that volunteer for the city.... I think primarily we volunteer... opportunity to make it a better place to live in.... personally it has a profound affect on my decision not to reapply for the commission for future term ..... Thomberry/I know that it is very frustrating... I think you have done a very good job.... 1 have learned a lot about P/R ..... I think part of the decision that we have to look at... have revolved around the original idea.... for that land .... family descendants .... I wouldn't want, in my will, to have it overturned by a committee... heirs are being This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS!21696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 34 very gracious.... they are not mutually exclusive properties.... I know that you have thought that we changed out minds a lot .... Nov/We don't know how much of this is true public record.... or vague.... It was another time and things were not as clearly spelled out. Liddell/I would also say... this was not a conditional gift to the city. Norton/ .... So I am very committed to the use of it as park.... When we asked you guys to take a look at it... your view... needed.... costs.... I have been slapped around by city councils. too... When we changed from our position... now heard from the heirs- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-147 SIDE 2 Norton/Now we are looking for more ways to compromise ..... We have the responsibility to live up to the current needs.... I am sympathetic to trying to keep as much as possible in parks with due deference to the heirs wishes... Baker/This issue first came up for me two years ago ..... My position has been absolutely consistent.... If we are going to stay in the cemetery business, it makes imminently more sense.... to stay in one location ..... using the land contiguous to the regular cemetery.... there are limitations.... We can be environmentally sensitive with the land.... I live in that neighborhood.... As far as the long range decisions.... It makes a great deal of sense to ... invest the money in that location.... Look at Hickory Hill Park.... I don't see where a cemetery is incompatible with those qualities and the reasons we want to preserve.... We very often get recommendations to us.... and we disagree .... Nov/And it is not just P/R. Liddell/I am just saying as a volunteer, I find it very frustrating ..... Nov/This is a council that doesn't know what it wants. I will agree with you. Liddell/ Kubby/ ....the process of how we make decisions .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page35 Norton/ Nov/Thank you. Trueblood/You want us to get together with family members, walk the area, see what seems to make sense.... We want to look into a minimo~n of 30 years o£ expanded life, if you will, maybe up to ten acres if that is what it takes and you have allocated an extra $100,000 in my budget to do this? Nov/Come back when you estimate from the consultant and we will talk again .... Trueblood/ Baker/...minority... I am not restricting myself to 30 years .... Nov/Other minority view is finish up.. and close the cemetery. Subsidize private lots. Baker/Smaller minority. Lehman/I think there can... may be innovative sort ofway... without.... intrusive .... [BREAK 10:10 to 10:20 PM] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 36 Utility Allowance 96-147 S2 Nov/Go ahead and do it or we can say let's defer that one. Utility allowances. Council/(Let's do it). Norton/I still don't exactly understand this. Council/(All talking). Nov/Basis premise is if we increase the utility allowance, people will have fewer opportunities to find a place to live. Norton/Complications.... Only thing... In the Public Housing area.... HUD doesn't reimburse us for that.... At what point does that get to be a .....burden? Seems to me inconsistent..;. Nov/Right ..... Vanderhoef/And staff is saying they don't want us to go with half and half. Norton/ Nov/Okay, we had four people saying go ahead with the Utility Allowance changes. Kubby/ ....As a group at the last meeting about October 1 ..... Norton/..lef~ it alone. Council/(All talking). Nov/We are all talking at once. Thomberry/ Norton/They wanted to give the... people in there the break of the two months ..... Vanderhoef/And we checked to see if we could write a 14-15 month contract. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 37 Nov/It is October 1. Vanderhoef/I would encourage Housing to bring us... as fast as they get them ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS!21696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 3 8 Low-Income Assistance Discounts 96-147 S2 Nov/... put it off for another day. So let's move on to PCRB. Kubby/Quick comment. The thing that we haven't talked about with our low income discount is by keeping with mostly federal programs.... and federal welfare reform, it may really reduce the number of people who qualify.... less money to spend on utilities an food... clothing... can't get foodstamps... may complicate our decision... Nov/I know that it is going to take more time .... Baker/ Nov/ ..... Baker/Can I ask one question about the memo that was not clear to me?... second paragraph... What is the current system of the county? Nov/That was that chart that we had a couple of weeks ago.... based upon qualifying for various programs .... Council/(All talking). Vanderhoet~ Next time remind us also to bring the chart with us. Nov/It's so lengthy... postponing .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 39 FCRB 96-147 S2 Nov/We are on page 4.... PCRB memo. Last paragraph, # 10, there is a blank.... insert shall or may .... Lehman/I think "may." Nov/ Norton/Yes, "may." Lehman/... don't think you should have to give that extension ..... Arkins/I added a sentence right after that sentence... Chief of Police will identify in the request for extension of time, reasons for said request. So it has to be spelled out. Norton/ Kubby/Page 4, #5....does it make it a formal complaint just by filling the paperwork out? Arkins/As far as I am concerned, it would. Kubby/First sentence says, will initiate an internal investigation. We may not need an internal investigation ..... Lehman/Could be a matter of semantics ..... Arkins/We may have to elaborate that... PCRB will substantially control how that is to occur.... I am assuming their will be communications with the complainant.... I am assunfiag PCRB will set up their own policies in how they might conduct themselves. Kubby/#1-4 on page 3 needs to take place before ..... Thomberry/An investigation does not have to be a long term thing ..... Kubby/... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page40 Norton/I have a suggestion.... I was suggesting that.... paragraph 4, page 3, be changed... introducing a procedure for handling complaints ..... one of them would be headed informal discussion.... then ..... there would be a paragraph about mediation ..... then you would go into formal investigation ..... Nov/That sounds fine. Linda agrees with that one. Okay. Kubby/There is one last thing at end of page 3,//4,... who has the power to suggest or initiate or decide mediation. The way it is worded here it means that PCRB makes that call and I don't think that should be the case. Vanderhoeff Nov/Says PCRB may suggest mediation ..... Kubby/"Use of mediation... determined by way of PCRB policy." If that just refers to the process in Section 5 ..... At~n~ Kubby/It is always a matter of who is in control of the process and different points in the process. Nov/ Norton/1 have here a draft of how it would work with internal investigation, then mediation... formal investigation is here .... Nov/We had that last time ..... Kubby! One of the big fundamental issues- Nov/I am on page 4, I think it is it5.... may be some situations... PCRB wants to wait for the internal report from the Chief. ....part of the investigation team .....Imn not seeing that kind of wide discretion .....different situations the PCRB might want to handle it a little differently. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Wo~-k Session page 41 Vanderhoef/How about putting PCRB may participate in. Then they can have their choice ..... Norton/I think they ought to always be represented.... no such thing as an internal investigation .....I let~ out the word internal .....I guess the PCRB would be in there. Thornbeny/I don't think they need to.._ be involved in all.... every single one. Baker/...There are not going to be that many formal complaints.... You want to error on the side ofbeing unambiguous and comprehensive ..... Norton/ Thornberry/I still think the PCRB is an external board.... I still think we need an autonomous Police Department. Nov/This will be a last resort. Thornberry/Then may will not be problem. Kubby/It is only if the formal complaint gets ~o the state as needing a full blown internal investigation. Council/(All talking). Thornberry/ Baker/I don't want any ambiguity of the complaints being treated differently.... keep it consistent .... Vanderhoef/... It is just a matter of whether we say may or shall. Norton/They have to work closely with the police ..... I think if we can get it done together... working with the internal investigation .... Lehman/It gives credibility to the.... investigation ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 42 Vanderhoef/Okay, so we have "shall." Thomberry/#5 ... you don't have to say "shall." It says will .... Kubby/I was not at any specific part. Baker/ Atkins/Also on #5 drop the word internal ...... Norton/.. should PCRB have choice to go separate or joint?... They go joint now, you are saying and that is it ..... Nov/They can make their own bylaws and recommend changes .....Okay, any other questions or changes on page 4? We are on page 5. Kubby/#12 about public record. The last sentence that says may become a public record.... I would like it to say "whole or in part, shall". .... Lehman/Last part of that sentence says that .... Vanderhoef/We want that "may" to become "shall".... Kubby/Steve, when we are at stage 13, how many days are we at. Are we at 55 days at this point? Atkins/ .....When we go back to readrail.... put a timeline next to it... I don't know .... Kubby/ Woito/Go back and use Dennis' timeline that he used two months ago .....chart with the alTows .... Atkins/I will get you a timeline. Norton/...big mark between #13 and #14, we need some kind of a transition.... end game... We need another heading of some kind .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 43 Slipping to page 6, Section 5 on mediation.... 8o forward to an earlier page .... Atkins/Push it back to up front. Norton/Your paragraph 5 would be Section B of paragraph 4. Arkins/Yep. Norton/Still looking at page 6.... (#15)... he said reasonable basis as distinct from clear and convincing. Arkins/Ask the lawyers that. Norton/ Nov/What is your alternative? Norton/Reasonable basis instead of clear and convincing Nov/ Norton/ Kubby/ Woito/The standard for an appellate review by an adrrfin~strafive law is reasonable basis... I don't have any objection to it. Norton/ Woito/You w~ll be hearing more about that from me. Kubby/In the mediation section- Nov/Anything else to say about page 5? Now we are on page 6. Kubby/Under Mediation, paragraph 2, to make sure police officer is added to the list of people that need to agree to mediate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 44 Arkins/We talked about that .... Kubby/Mediaion won't work unless all parties... are into it. Norton/They all got to buy into it, I think. Kubby/... If the officer is going to be involved, they have to agree to it .....If the officer is going to be part of it, they have to agree to it. Arkins/ Woito/The officer should be involved. Arkins/No. Kubby/It matters what it is .... Thomberry/... I think the officer would need to give his concurrence to mediation ..... Vanderhoeff What about that conversation we had... mediation.. complaint is about the officer, if he mediates out of it...?. Woito/That is your best result if you get face to face context and you have a resolution resolved right there face to face. Vanderhoef/Would there be any received threat to the police officer ..... Kubby/Pressure to participate? Vanderhoef/Pressure... to settle... Woito/No, and I can put that in there .... Thomberry/ Vanderhoeff I am trying to stand in the shoes of the officer .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 45 Thomberry/...the officer wouldn't even need to be there .... Kubby/It is hard to know what is going to come up ..... It is for the parties that are relevant.... make sure that the police officer... that they have to agree .... Baker/...Why do you have to have the Police Chief's permission for mediation?... Arkins/The Police Chief may feel very strongly about the conduct and choose to deal with it immediately ..... I see something here I want to deal with .... Kubby/ Thornberry/Would the Civil Service, after this is initiated, preclude the Chief from doing an investigation once this was mediated to the satisfaction of both parties? Atkins/Once it is turned over to the Civil Service... Chief becomes a witness like anybody else. Nov/I think you ought to give the Chief of Police a little discretion .... Arkins/ Kubby/Have (4) be police officer or officers. Norton/Add (4) officer. Vanderboef/.. all parties agree... may include .... Kubby/ Norton/...when the parties agree. Arkins/I don't mind adding the officer .... Norton/Fix it so the complainant and officer be pluralized Nov/I am sorry... I need to clarify, the word is complainant, not complaintant. We have had both words kind of floating back and forth .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 46 Arkins/Only one "t". Nov/ ..... Kubby/Another issue about mediation is there are no time frames outlines here and do we want to do that? Arkins/4.... will define procedures with respect to.... etc. I was deferring to them to make those decisions. Kubby/Okay, so there is no spedtic. Nov/They have to make a decision within some particular period of time .... Atkind There was not a time period on mediation. Nov/There ought t be a time frame on which the PCRB must say something.... must act ..... make a decision and do something within a specific period of time. Arkins/... the complainant will be advised in no less than ten days... there may be a schedule.... But they have to make the official offer or something. Nov/ Atkins/Some kind of time frame I can go with. Lehman/If there is mutual agreement to extend the time, I have not problem with that. Arkins/ Nov/Okay, everybody finished with page 67 Page 7. I would like to say four year staggered terms, last paragraph. I would like to suggest that if we appoint seven people at the same time, two people have two year terms, two people have three year terms and three people have four year terms.... We did say seven at some point. I am suggesting that- Kubby/Do you think that is too many7 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 47 Vanderhoef/Yes. Thornberry/I think it should be five. Norton/ Arkins/Keep in mind... community representation ..... Baker/We wanted at least two people with law enforcement backgrounds. If you only have five, that is 40% of the commission. Atkina/Naomi will be getting a letter from the University about one member should be an African American.... seven just gives you a little more room to work with. Nov/ Norton/ Nov/That would mean you would replace twvo people after two years ..... But there would be three people who would stay there four years.... workable number. Kubby/Are we going to talk... earmarked expertise? Atkind Should you write that into the ordinance or should that simply be as a matter of policy for this body to decide? Woito/I have very strong feelings about the composition of this group. So maybe you ought to talk about them now? Norton/Do we write it into the ordinance or not? Woito/You can write it into the ordinance. Nov/Do you think it would be easier if we put it into policy? Might be easier to discuss it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 48 Woito/... I think you are going to have a serious problem if you insist that the law enforcement contingent is an Iowa City resident... limiting yourself... Need to go outside Iowa City to get a law enforcement appointment .... Kubby/I disagree... law enforcement... active duty and retired people on local forces outside of Iowa City who live in Iowa City .... Thomberry/ Kubby/Why should we be differently about this than any other board? .... Atkins/They spend the public's money. They will also be very involved in recommending on some issues that could cost. Baker/Flip side.... a perceived credibility or objectivity ......I don't think we should restrict ourselves .... Norton/I think we should restrict ourselves. Arkins/I don't hold a strong opinion you have to have someone with law enforcement experience. Woito/I think you definitely need someone on here with law enforcement. Arkins/ Kubby/Ernie, how do you feel about the Iowa City resident? Lehman/I think I would like to try to do that .... Kubby/We should start off that way. Norton/Let's start off and try. Vanderhoef/See what kind of participation ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 49 Nov/I think we will have no difficulty on all of the others.... We want one who does not work for Iowa City but who does live in Iowa City. If we can get it, I think we should do it that way. Baker/ .....Do we appoint anybody who has actually been on the Iowa City police force before?.... pros and cons .... Nov/I don't know. Vanderhoef/...five years after being on the force makes a difference .... Thornberry/It is up to the individual. Vanderhoef/ Atkinsd It the discussion to determine whether you want to write in that there must have law enforcement or is this a preference depending on the pool of applicants you have? ..... Noir/We were talking about let's have somebody with law enforcement experience ..... Woito/You definitely need someone on there who is a trained attorney. You need at least Olle. Norton/Legal background? Woito/Licensed practiced lawyer. Currently licensed to practice law. Baker/... Why do we need an attorney as part of that commission? ..... Woito/We can't support that. Baker/ Woito/You need someone who can- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-148 SIDE I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 50 Woito/Conclusions. I mean you need the training.... we all learn the same way .... Council/(All talking). Lehman/An attorney could save the Board a tremendous amount of time.... and probably keep them out of a lot of trouble. Woito/This Board can't function without an attorney. Arkins/That I agree with. Nov/ Woito/We are trained to do legal analysis... in the same way. Atkins/ Norton/ Arkins/I think there needs to be legal advice. I am just not convinced you need to have a lawyer on the Board. Council/(All talking). Thomberry/Are the instructors that teach at the law co lege licensed? Woito/Some of them are. Norton/...moonlighters .... Kubby/ .....lower income... elderly .... Baker/Categin3, question. Vanderhoeff From the pool of applications... try to balance the board. Kubby/Collect that information... important for me.... There is a feeling from some of the zealots in the community that there are times when certain classes of people are This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 51 interacting with the police more frequently than others.... maybe some of those categories of people should have some oversight of power at some point .....we get that information... Atkins/I made the assumption that the form that we would use is not substantially different than the form you use for the boards and commissions.... I think it is a legitimate concern that that income issue be represented on that board in some fashion .... Norton/Appointment should be made with due recognition of the diversity in the community. Nov/We have a standard form .... Vanderhoef/It is information that might help us balance. Thomberry/ Nov/It is not a criteria, it is just information. Arkins/You are going to make the final call. Baker/... might be more investigation in the background than ordinarily... Thornberry/Yes ..... Kubby/If someone gets busted 15 times.... it may not be appropriate for them to be on the board. Thornberry/A background check of the potential candidates would be in order. Kubby/To have that information... I have been arrested.... Someone else like me who has been arrested for minor infractions. Thomberry/Then we should be aware of it before they are appointed to the board. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 52 Norton/..recognition of diversity. Arkins/Are we having an earmarking discussion? ...or general policy discussion? ..... Norton/Some of both .... Thomberry/A minority .... Vanderhoef/The application for Human Rights Commission has a page... choice whether they want to fill it out or not ..... Kubby/ Norton/...relevant to say due recognition.... important to recognize a variety of diversity .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Thomberry/ Kubby/I am hearing people say that they want an earram ?ed expertise for one attorney and one law enforcement person. I guess I haven't sp~n, enough time thinking .... Vanderhoe~ After the p.h we may have some other ideas, too.... let it rest right now .... Norton/ Nov/Also said we would like some diversity. Vanderhoef/ Kubby/One last thing on #2.... I think we need a summary of their work that is more detailed and more specific... accountirig of how many complaints came in.. nature... how many were resolved through informal discussion and mediation... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 53 Arkins/The purpose of this was to put them on notice that they must annually report because the register is required as part of their work. Kubby/I just want more details. Council/(All talking). Vanderhoeff We can add and subtract from the policy. Kubby/That we get the kind of information that we want.... for us to see any kind of trends.... monitor. There are some generalized things... proposal... send it to the... Lincoln, Nebraska... before the ordinance is written to get some feedback. Nov/I think write the ordinance... send the ordinance. Kubby/At some point I think we need to send it to them. Atkins/An outside opinion is fine.... I am sure they are going to charge you something. Nov/I think we can get some review ofthe ordinance from local people as well .... Kubby/I would like to have their feedback as part of the p.h .....to time it such... feedback before we vote on the ordinance .... Atkins/Can't promise that .... Nov/I may send this to the state ombudsman... willing to comment without charge. Kubby/What time frame would we want for reviewing to see how successful we are? After a year after the ordinance passes? .... Vanderhoeff For me the first year may be six months.... then again at one year.... Then maybe go on an annual basis .... Kubby/...first six months might be eaten up by learning and bylaws. Nov/A year might be more reasonable .....may spend six months just reviewing procedures... I think a year ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 54 Kubby/One last question... ability of PCRB to hold separate hearings.... 1- not subpoena legalistic p.h.s but information p.h.s around the community to gather feelings and inputs from the community about the Police Department .... Vanderhoeff time to time we may choose to have a p.h. for public input into your policies and procedures... of the review board. Kubby/Of about the Police Department .....services .....Getting community standards as part of the accreditation process .....Other kind ofp.h.... able to take testimony or subpoena witnesses at all?... page 4, #8.... does that imply that they will be taking testimony? Arkins/Have to ask Linda. Kubby/Or have the ability to subpoena witnesses. Woito/It is up to you. Arkins/I have seen it in some of the other ordinances .....our Human Rights Commission can do it ..... Woito/Yeah. I would think that you would want to consider that as a possibility. Kubby/I think we should do that .....gives them .... Norton/Well, it is an investigative body. Thomberry/We are appointing a court. Lehman/ Thomberry/If they can demand and subpoena somebody.. require them to be there .... Kubby/Linda, what happens- How does the Human Rights Commission work? .... Woito/Because the Human Rights Commission is limited by state law, a subpoena is not self enforcing. You would have to go to the court to enforce a subpoena from the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 55 Human Rights Commission. I would suggest that you use that same format here. They should not have the power to find someone in contempt. Kubl y/ Woito/If that is a direction... 1 will look at that more carefully. Council/(All talking) Thornberry/I don't want to have anything in here that is a bluff Woito/I don't know. ! didn't think you were going that far in that direction. Norton/Subpoena means something formal ..... Arkins/Linda, does Civil Service have the right to subpoena? Woito/Yes. Nov/Who are you concerned about that might refuse to come? Thornberry/Some one who would have information that they would not want to come. Lehman/ Kubby/In this case they can he subpoenaed but they don't have to come. Vanderhoef/Civil Service? Woito/That would be at the other end of the process. Nov/ Norton/I agree with Dean.... probably should use another word .... Thornberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 56 Kubby/Have it be parallel to the Human Rights Commission.... so they would only use that power if they really needed that information to make a determination. Thomberry/I didn't think that this was a court .... Norton/ Lehman/I would suggest that we forget the subpoena for the time being. I£i! turns out that we need it, we can always add it. Baker/Same way it is with the Human Rights Coramission. Kubby Put it in like it is with the Human Rights Commission. Norton/ Kubby/It is quite well defined with the Human Rights Commission. We can define it the same way with the PCRB .... Baker/ Norton/May be we have to change that one, too. Kubby/ Norton/All right. We won't say subpoena, we will say they may call witnesses. Is that what you want? Kubby/It should be the same as the Human Rights Commission. Thornberry/Why? .... Baker/It is analogous work .... Norton/ Thornberry/They should be able to request someone's presence. But they should not have the authority to force them. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the 1owa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e57 Nov/ Kubby/Subpoena. Norton/Request. Vanderhoef/Request. Nov/All right. Requests, Linda. Norton/Subpoena is a formal term. Kubby/But Linda is saying that there is different kinds of subpoena power which are legal- Thomberry/ Woito/There is such a thing as administrative subpoena but it does carry a heavy hand .... It compels the person to come.... You would enforce it by taking it to court. Norton/ Thomberry/ Norton/We want that to be possible .... Thomberry/I would not like the lady that saw something out the window to be forced to go and testify because she is not going to want to and this is a civilian review board.... It is not a judicial court body. Norton/Sticky. Baker/I think it is 11:30. Woito/Talk about it when we actually get a draft ordinance. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e58 Nov/Is there anything else here on page 8? ..... Kubby/In the first bullet. Nov/That is a policy question. It doesn't have to go in the ordinance, does it? Kubby/ .....The only kinds oftrainings are provided by the Police Department. I want to make sure there is training and information from other sources .... Norton/Heavy duty decisions .... Nov/ Kubby/What about the appeal process? .... Nov/Yeah, that is the thing that I thought should be in there because the employee has the Civil Service Commission and the complainant has nothing. Thomberry/It has the courts. Nov/I don't know .... Woito/ Nov/We ought to have it on there that the city council is the appeal or whoever. Woito/So is the city council willing to do it? Norton/... it is late... Dave Baldus.. end game .... Vanderhoe~' I like to know how you finally sign off even at the mediation stage. What concludes and what finalizes that puts it into the files and at rest. Norton/I have a thing on informal discussion .....so that each time there was a conclusion, the thing was formally filed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 59 Nov/That is fine. When you get to this final decision... there has to be some way for somebody to say ! don't agree with this and there has to be a next- Thomberry/ Council/(All talking). Thomberry/....Mr. Shaw thinks the officer ought to be bound and shot... Norton/Let somebody draft a possibility for the end game and let us review it for the next time. It is too late. Nov/Let's have Linda work on the Dave Baldus recommendation and come back to us. Kubby/Does that mean that there are four people who want the complainant to have an appeal process? Nov/Yes, that is the real question. That seems to be in agreement. Council/(All talking). Nov/I think we need to discuss the last one. Should this ability to file a complaint apply also to off duty police? Baker/In what context? ..... Nov/What if it is not a neighbor7 .... Lehman/If the officer is acting in the capacity of an officer, whether he is on duty or off duty, this should apply .... Woito/I agree with Ernie. Lehman/If he is acting in an official capacity as an officer, whether on or off duty- Kubby/Is there an easy way to determine that? Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 60 Woito/It is determined by fact. Lehman/ Thomberry/.. citizen's arrest. Lehman/This board has nothing to do with that... Thomberry/ Woito/This only covers sworn police officers. Norton/you are not a sworn officer .... Nov/People who are hired as police officers... added community service officers. Woito/We did7 Nov/We did last time. Thomberry/ Nov/Dean, sometimes police officers don't want to get involved. This happens .... Vanderhoeff I have got one more thing... time lines.... If the PCRB chooses additional investigation, I think they ought to have a time line, too ..... My concern is this could drag out forever and ever and ever. At each juncture we should have a time line .... Nov/Linda, put something in. Woito/Yeah. Nov/Thanks. Okay, we are finished. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 61 1Meeting Schedule 148 Sl Nov/Marian gave us a memo on a meeting schedule for 1997 and we really need to firm up these kinds of things.... every other week meetings... need extra meetings for the budget... all of Tuesdays.... Mondays ..... According to Marian, we have to have the budget p.h. set on the 1 lth of February and actually hold the hearing on 28th? We could have last work session if we needed on February 10... hold all of those just in case. Kubby/My preference is to do Mondays.... Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday is observed on the 20th ..... Vanderhoeff I am real okay with Mondays. Norlord Let's do Mondays .... Baker/Any day but Thursday is fine. Norlord Let's settle on Monday, the 6th. Nov/ Karr/Mondays, you would only have three.... Wednesday the 22rid... Tuesday had Wednesday that week... Kubby/I can't do Wednesday nights, I am teaching a class.. every Wednesday through February. Norlord Karr/The budget should be out to you this week. Vanderhoef/Let's go with the 6th. Nov/I would like to schedule one more day in January .... Norlord What about 21st? Baker/My Thursdays start on the 16th. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996, WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 62 Council/(Meeting schedule discussion): Budget: January 6 - 7:00 January 21 - 4:00 to 6:00 February 3 - 7:00 February 10 - maybe February I - 2:00 to 5:00 Executive Session February 5 - 4:00 to 5:30 Local Option Sales Presentation - Don Burr February 18 - 7:00 Student Senate March 20 - Joint meeting with Library 5:00 to 7:00 Thomberry/When are we suppose to turn this firing in for Walk of The Stars? Kubby/And do we want to coordinate to make sure we always have somebody there. Council/(Meeting schedule discussion). Vanderhoef/Did you look up National League of Cities? Karr/I will check on that. Nov/ Norton/How many ofus are going to be permitted to go? Karr/I will re-do the memo and also send you some dates .... Kubby/Walk of the Stars... I can do Saturday, I:00 to 3:00. Norton/1 will go Saturday ....10:00 to 1:00. Nov/I was also going to go Saturday, 1:00 to 3:00... Vanderhoet71 will have to call you. Thornbe~ry/I will go Friday. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page 63 Lehman/I will go Sunday ..... Council/(Discuss Walk of Stars schedule). Karr/You have got the form. If you would like to, maybe tomorrow evening, give it to me. We can see what holes we have got.... jot down some options .... Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session p~e64 Council AGenda/Time 96-148 Sl 1. Kubby/I have one thing and that is I sent a memo out with questions about the Shaw shooting. I had said I would bring it up... the mayor will talk tomorrow about how the council will proceed with some of these an other questions. 2. Nov/Remind everybody that we have a form that requests local control for cigarettes and if everybody thinks that we should go ahead and endorse this, I would like us to put it on our first resolution for t 997 and then send it on to the Governor or whoever.... I gave Marian an article from yesterday's register... everybody will have it tomorrow. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-148 SIDE 2 Vanderhoef/Was this a form ordinance that was put out or was this one that we wrote? Nov/It is a resolution that came from the American Cancer Society and what I did was revise it a little bit and shorten it a little bit. But I started from their resolution and we may modify it again because I gave it to our Legal Department to look at .... Vanderhoeff Nov/... Our Legal Department made a couple of little changes .... Karr/So you will get a revised one prior to your discussion .... Nov/I am asking for permission to put it on the agenda for the first meeting in January. Vanderhoeff ...anyway that we can put in there somehow that we are talking more than just cigarettes.... oral chew tobacco.... stronger if we just stated the obvious fact... Id for the protection, safety, and health ofchildren and make it real plain. Kubby/I have a little bit of problem with the whereas about the gateway drug and I would just like to delete that ..... I would like to take out that particular whereas. Nov/Why? Kubby/I think there is varied conclusions about that specific tNng and therefore would not like to have it in there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696 December 16, 1996 Council Work Session page65 Nov/... I have no problem taking out that one. We are adding in control o£"all tobacco products" .... Thomberry/I gave Naomi an article from the Nations Restaurant News regarding some cities and some laws that were passed prohibiting smoking in certain areas and in one case an entire city and the consequences to the retail trade ..... Adjourned: 11:55 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 16, 1996. WS121696