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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-12-09 TranscriptionDecember 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting p~el December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting 5:10 PM Council: Nov, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry, Vanderhoef, Baker (5:15 PM). Sta~t': Arkins, Helling, Karr, Franklin, Eckholt, Dilkes, Craig, Clark, Lubereft, Nichols, Black. Library Board: Traw, Cox, Greenleaf, Hubbard, Martin, McMurray, Singerman, Spencer, Swaim. Facilitater: Franklin. Tapes: 96-145, all. Library Project Discussion 96-145 Sl. Franklin/ Tonight is the opportunity to make a decision. The purpose of the meeting is to come out with a preferred option of all of the options that you have before you and I am assuming that everybody has had an opportunity to look over the memo from Susan and myself that addresses the three newer options, that is the new construction and remember you also have two additional options which were the expansions. That is the expansion west on the Lenock and Cilek site and the expansion south to 64-1A. On the overhead is the list of all the options .... Overhead #1: Option 1 Civic Center Site A. 4-story library building B. 3-story library building Option 2 "Bus Depot" Site A. 4-story library building Substation remains B. 3-story library building Substation is removed. Option 3 Urban Renewal Parcel 64-1A Multi story multi-use building Option 4 Expansion West of Present Library This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 2 Option 5 Expansion South of Present Library First of all are there any questions about any of them? .... Traw/They call contemplate 80,000 roughly square feet? Franklin/They are contemplate 80,000 square feet for the library. Norton/...bus station lot.... that is not necessarily library only. That could be multi- propose. Franklin/No. What has been put before you in a 3-4 story building is 80,000 square feet for a library. Norton/Does that preclude the possibility of multi-use there7 Franklin/You would have to go a higher building. Norton/Air is cheap. Kubby/Not footings. Singerman/The Wilson's Sporting Goods, how would that property be acquired if that were selected? ..... FranHin/We have been talking with Wilson's Sporting Goods for some time. They have expressed a desire to relocate.... We have looked at these three blocks groin the Rec Center to the Civic Center.... Civic complex.... We would go through a negotiated acquisition if that were possible.... also have the option of condemnation_.. What may occur would be a friendly condemnation in which the owner agrees to that .... Martin/In regard to the Wilson's Sporting Goods area, is there also some service problems in that area? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 3 Franklin/We are not aware of them. However, it is possible that ther~ could be because we are not talking about land that is distinctly different from right here. It is within the realm of possibility. We do have on that site the factor of building into the hillside.... which adds some extra cost ..... Thomberry/Do you have prices on any of these options? Franklin/No. That is really the next step. Once you choose the preferred option- Obviously the simplest, the 80,000 square foot single building on a flat site. 64-1A would have to be the least expensive option.... we own the land... $138 a square foot, approximately $11 million.... seems to be about the medium price for new library construction today.... Then for second... expansion on Lenock and Cilek. The Civic Center or the bus depot site.... a lot of unknowns there.... They may come out to be comparable... I am guessing at this point. It is not until we get a preferred option ... get into the specifics of that building that we are going to know how much it is going to cost. Thomberry/I think cost should be some consideration before a decision is made .... Franklin/Just to talk about it in gross terms... least expensive is going to be the library alone on 64-1A.... most expensive is going to be a multi-use project on 64-1A. In between you are going to have the other three... expansion to Lenock and Cilek, bus depot and the Civic Center .... Cox/The library alone on 64-1A is not an option. Franklin/It has not been. Cox/ Swaim/Is the city exploring moving MidAmerica substation anyway? Franklin/At some point in time we probably will.... amend what is in the memo. We got some better information.... To move that will cost $650,000. That does not include the land cost.... MidAmerica Energy may wish to do that anyway because they want to make some kind of change in their KV. They would potentially in the long run work with the city on the removal ofthat substation .....someday we will see that happen .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 4 Norton/You are implying that all the costs would not necessarily fall on the city? Franklin/That is correct. Okay. At this point, let's start looking at the options. Would somebody like to put forward an option to be eliminated for consideration? Kubby/I would like to eliminate both options 1 & 2.... I like being on 64-1A or any of the other options. Franklin/ Nov/I think the bus depot option is very convenient... advantages... Rec Center .... Frankdin/Does anybody favor Option 17.... Is them anyone who has anything positive to say about Option 17 ..... Karen said eliminate I & 2. Naomi is speaking of some aspect 2.... Option 1, is there anyone who wants to keep that in the pot. Okay it is gone. Okay, Option 2 ..... Norton/I want to leave it in for a minute ..... I want to explore a little bit further.... Notices from people d.t. that it would be a disaster to move it beyond Gilbert Street ..... I will second getting rid of it but I am tempted to keep it for a minute.... for a few more minutes. Vanderhoef/ Swaim/l just had a question on the attraction of parking at the bus depot site. Is there a problem with the parking adjacent to 64-1A? Norton/There is a ramp there, too. Franklin/A problem? Nov/It is more likely to be full. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 5 Franklin/The availability of spaces can be adjusted through our permitting system... there are different public perceptions of parking in the Dubuque Street ramp versus the Chauncey Swan Ramp.... availability of spaces, we can play around with that. / The Library Board has talked about these options. The Board's preference would be to have a free standing library and not have to deal with all the problems associated with it.... Consensus... that 64-1A is probably the most realistic site. Franklin/Okay. Nov/ Traw/As far as the free standing library ..... operate as an independent function. One of the advantages of the bus depot site I think is the parking that is there.... solve access problems.... the consensus of the Board was arrived at looking at some of the realistic cost problems associated with the other sites.... also most external sources in the city.... feel that 64-1A is the most beneficial.... best use of the property. Franklin/Do we want to talk about 64-1A as a preferred option, to jump to that rather than going through the elimination process? Norton/When I t,hink about this... point... library being integrated with some other features.... certainly is a complexity.... bus depot... might do something higher... seemed to me that both of them might end up... making more than just a library there. I don't think it is a free standing library on one versus multi-sue on 64-1A necessarily. Kubby/...we could go on forever... sometime we have to say these are the options that we agree .... Norton/...I never agreed to build only a library on the bus site .... Franklin/Is there anyone who is not happy with 64-1A as a preferred option? Vanderhoef/Yes.... I am listening to our consumers who are saying they don't like the parking... As I went through all the lists of things that we as a council looked at for the 64-IA property... prioritizing... important... conference space... to have the Arts thing in the form of an auditorium that had multiple uses... compliment to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 6 conference space.... more hotel space.... We have talked about marketing this property.... talk to someone outside the city to market this property... What comes up for me... if we say now our preference is to do library in here... more city space in terms of art kinds of space, how many developers are going to look at us? ..... If we marketed that property.... we went to them and said can we add two floors for library... I am afraid we scare off more developers or prospects.... I would like to be more welcoming to them. Franklin/If these factors, the parking, the conference, the performance auditorium and hotel could be included in a project with the library on 64-1A, then you would support that? Vanderhoeff I am not positive... I want those other things in place before I ever commit to a library on that space. Kubby/...looking at the library and all of those things... multi-use... Vanderhoef/What I am saying is how are you going to market this if you have already told them up front that these are the things that you really are going to have to have to make it go. Kubby/...maybe we don't market it in that way for those purposes.... Maybe xehat we end up marketing is the current library space. Franklin/Dean .... Thomberry/I would feel remiss in not reiterating my stand for a satellite library ..... a number of locations that are and will become available in the near future.... I understand nobody has suggested a satellite branch library... that is too bad.... I think leaving the library where it is and adding a satellite library in the southeast part of town is the way to go.... I think that perhaps 64-1A.... if we could use that for not primarily a library.... parking is a big one. To market 64-1A as a conference center, performance.... hotel and retail.... being on the tax rolls for private enterprise I think is what 64-1A should be. Franklin/Are you favoring no public space on 64-1A, Dean? Thomberry/The primary area.... conference and performance .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 7 Franklin/Ifa package could be put together that had all of these components in it, including the library, would you then support 64-1A? Thomberry/You would have to show me that people who use the library would have a place to park. Franklin/Parking is one of the factors here. The next step... take when you identified today as the preferred option and try to come up with something concrete.... put that together rather quickly so that you can meet again in March and feel comfortable with the package. That is the goal. Norton/In response to Dee and Dean... I favor substantial private uses in 64-1A assuming the Library Board.... compatibility.... sympathetic to get money back on tax rolls... also... parking.... access.... We can do substantial modification of that ramp...to improve access and temporary parking .... Franklin/That is what our job is then. If you direct us to go this way for 64-1A, our job... is to figure out whether you can do it.... yes or no. Baker/Can part of that research.... talk about phasing in this multi-use.... assuming the library is the clearest use for that land... first thing that gets developed there. Thomberry/ Baker/In terms of timing only.... clearly .... Nov/I am with Dee with putting in conference space immediately. Not just library immediately. Franklin/We can look at the whole concept of phasing. Baker/... public functions are more clearly under our control.. private functions I don't see as incompatible with public functions.... I think we need to establish a limit on library expansion d.t .....at that point we will expand our service in some other form away from d.t ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting p~e8 Swaim/One aspect of this... voter control on the bond issue... How to offer the voters who support a library something that allows them to vote for a library and those who want to include the other uses, the opportunity to do that as well.... I, for one, am of the opinion that if you make it a fairly complex large multi-use facility, the farst time you try and get it passed for bond referendum ..... Baker/How much of a bond issue is necessary to achieve what we need to achieve? And private financing is another issue .... Franklin/That would be your next decision point when you reconvene. Chuck- / When I spoke earlier... anticipated... driven need on the library. That if64-1A were the selected site, we anticipate it would be a multi-use site but that it would be a phase so the library ..... If we got a referendum on the ballot and passed next May or November or whenever, then it is going to be the year 2000 before we can even get in there at that point. Time is significant .... Vanderhoeff ... bus depot.. that is where I was headed.... truly was looking... couldn't support 64-1A. When I started thinking more and more about the anchor of the d.t.... free thinking... what could come out... came up with to explore the possibility of moving the library into J. C. Penney location that would be vacated in the next two years.... anchoring the d.t ..... Penney's just happens to be at the other end of the pedestrian mall... would be anchoring Clinton Street as well as College Street ..... adjacent parking ramp.... attempts to anchor the bus situation in Iowa City.... Senior citizens... It just looked like it was a possibility.... could serve all of the d.t ..... talked to Ernie .... Lehman/Naomi... mentioned this back in October.... I don't know whether this is even a possibility .... lease that property at a reasonable rate.... 20 years.... Then when we get ready to do a library, our sewer and water plants will be basically paid for .... appears to me.... library is extremely high use... accessible by bus or by car... economic way ....70,000 square feet .....size is really about what we are looking for .... Franklin/Does the group wish to consider this option as one of the options? Nov/I think it is worth getting some more information. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 9 Norton/(Can't hear). Council/(All talking). Trawl Is the council willing to give up on retail space d.t.? That is a disaster .... Lehman/Heitman would still pay taxes on it. Kubby/That is going to be reflected in the lease price.... The thing about parking, I don't quite understand because the current library space is a mall's length away from a couple of parking ramps and all the places we have looked at are near parking ..... Baked This just seems like a shell game with the tax roll question. If we lease it, we are in a sense paying our own taxes.... 2-As far as anchoring, what you are anchoring is the Old Capital Mall. 3-1fit is perfectly logical to have the library... 650,000 people... a little further away to generate that flow d.t .....I don't see any advantages with taking over J. C. Penney. Lehman/ Franklin/The question now is whether this is an option that the group, as a whole, wishes us to do more work on ..... contact Heitman's, address the structural question and then come back .... So I just need to know from the group, do you wish us to pursue this and so far I have got threp' yes and three no. Okay, everybody shake their head yes or no. Singeman/It is hard to say... so many unanswered questions... Our concern is to get the library expanded in a reasonable length of time at a cost that the tax payers will support.... sounds like it has more problems to me.... These were the ideas that we were trying to come to conclusion on.... I would rather proceed with what we have in front of us. Swaim/Bracket that, proceed with these options.... one of these options.... in mean time you could check with Heitman's and structure.... could be thrown back in ....not impede this process but not to shut the door on the suggestion. Lehman/I think that is a good idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 10 Nov/I don't want us to spend a lot of time on it. It is worth a phone call. Kubby/ Norton/Why spend anytime? Kubby/Is there a majority that wants staff to spend time on inquiring about that information? Thornberry/This doesn't solve my big problem with parking .... Lehman/Dean, they are going to have a problem any place d.t. Franklin/Could I have a show of hands of those who wish me to pursue looking at the Penney's site? Okay, it is off the list. Okay. Right now what I am hearing is that a majority, that is all of you save two, would choose 64-1A as your preferred option ..... That there is concern of the compatibility of uses that go into this project. There is concern about the extent of the private sector involvement at least of the two who spoke.... there be significant private sector involvement there for tax generation .....Tax generation is an issue for some of you Kubby/I think it was kind of assumed in our discussion about multi-purpose- Vanderhoeff That there would be some. Nov/We can broaden that concept somewhat... not necessarily tax generation .... Franklin/You would still have tax increment if it were rented to private individuals.... That there would be some revenue generated off of it. Kubby/Dee, is that acceptability flexibility in money coming in .....that there is revenue generation and it could be flexible to its form .... Thomberry/I would be more in favor or privatization.... I think... that would be primary with everything else being secondary... I think the commercial space on 64-1A This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 11 should be primary with perhaps CenterSpace, conference space, and that is why I think the library should perhaps be somewhere else. Kubby/It matters what the design is, too. Franklin/We can look into the possibility of that working together. Are there other factors that are essential to this project on 64-1A? What I have got here is... parking, conference space, performance auditorium, a private use, possibility a hotel... some kind of private use... and library .... Nov/I would like to add some kind of art center space .... Norton/Defining exactly what those are. What you mean by performance, what you mean by an auditorium... multi-use....? Nov/What I mean is display, not performance .... Thomberry/You can have display in many different ways... Singerman/....is there a reason in our talking about 64-1A for the library and other public uses and this bus depot station of the private development that everybody wants close to d.t. Why should the library go there? Why not the other users? Franklin/Why couldn't the bus depot site be a site for private development? Singerman/The hotel, the residential center... some of these things .... Franklin/Part of it is a way to get a financial package put together that includes some private money that will make the other parts of it work.... Private components can help for paying for this whole project.... you can share some of those costs them... another source of funding.... financing of it.... as opposed to looking at exclusively a private public on 64-1A .....I think we are going to have to look at the two together. Baker/....private also generates a different kind of traffic... more uses we can get out of the whole lot.... benefits can be increased by the private use as well .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting p~e12 Singeman/Wouldn't it do that if it were on the bus depot site....? Gilbert Street barrier .... generate traffic in the d.t. area .... Franklin/I think we have moved to eliminating the bus depot site as an option... everybody is focusing on 64-1A .... Bakeff A show of hands... Thomberry/ Franklin/I am trying to get through the preferred option here. What I was heating was the preferred option of the majority of the people sitting at the table was 64-1A with a mixed use project, Dean and Dee nay. Thomberry/ Franklin/I hope everybody here is considering things as individual people. Thomberry/Library board... consensus was that 64-1A was the preferred... / We did not vote as a Board. It was a consensus.... preference was to have a free standing library. Reality was- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 145 SIDE 2 Trawl 64-1A. Nov/Well, if we were really going to take in the vote of the Library Board, we would expand west. Martin/1 am wondering... if that alternative doesn't begin to look better than it did before....my position on multi-use, you have just spent half an hour completely fogging my brain about what any of you think multi-use means and what it might mean for the library ..... I have questions of whether a library is compatible with your visions of what molti-use is going to do for the d.t, frankly ..... How do developers feel about putting 80,000 square feet of library in the middle of that kind of building? I think that is a reasonable question to ask. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 13 NoHoff Franklin/We can't look at anything and be able to answer the questions until we have a better idea of what you all want to do. Once that is chosen as a path to take, we will do the investigation to try to answer these questions and the answer may be that it is not a good path to take. Then we have got some other options to go back tO. Kubby/ Norton/My question is do we lose all that time? .... Franklin/At some point you are going to have to sit down and say that is not going to work, we are going to this and do it.... We have started over a few times... Hubbard/The discussion about including commercial space or private space, is a little confusing because I thought 64-1A was available now... because no one wants to build there. Thomberry/That is not exactly correct... because the councils... have not marketed it effectively .... Lehman/ Thomberry/During Urban Renewal process 64-1A was suppose to be... commercial... Norton/And we had no takers at that. Franklin/...taker.... lawsuit... interest rates go up .... Norton/....now we are talking public private. I still tlfink we have got to look at this in- depth and see if it is feasible .... Thomberry/ Kubby/To get back to our discussion about exploring multi-use on 64-1A, there are two things I would like to make sure they are investigated .... 1- Not only connecting This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 14 current parking with tiffs building, especially the library section of it. But also underground parking .... Baker/ ....It is becoming foggier and foggier to me why parking is an issue here.... In the future the Board ought to be more serious about a branch library.... Our trying to solve a parking problem on 64-1A seems to be misdirected energy. Kubby/No, because you got multi-use .... Baker/ Kubby/I was suggesting that for multi-use on that site.... using that ground as intensely, above and below, as possible ..... Norton/ Nov/While we are still looking... shouldn't we consider o£1ibrary into 64~1A and still continue using the current library rather than rebuilding a whole library? Franklin/Then you are going to another option. Nov/Before you abandon this. Franklin/....the preferred option .... direct our energies.... We need to direct our energies... to an option and move with that and answer these questions. Nov/My concern is if we are dealing with 64-1A as an option, it ought to be an option for an expansion as well as for a library .... Bakeff Thomberry/That would be like a branch library real close. Franklin/Karen .... Kubby/The other thing I have been thinking about is I know there are cost savings to build a building all at once .... explore about having separate bond issue, one for the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 15 library space and the cost of that. And one for whatever possible contribution that the public might make to the multi-use ..... Franklin/....we can look at whether you can do that. Singeman/Related to what Naomi said, we did actually talk about that option, having some space in 64-IA.... moved away from that.. staffing costs.... it is not like we didn't talk about that ever... not the most desirable thing. Cox/But I think we do like Karen's idea.... separate bond issues into two different ones .... Nov/If we do not build a multi-use facility, we are not going to build it .... Kubby/I want to know what our options are.... what are the options for financing. I just want to know if it is possible .... Franklin/Okay. Thomberry/Would the Library Board... would you rather have a single use building on the bus depot site or a multi-use library on 64-1 A? What is the library's feeling? /Each individual member will have to speak to that. Martin/All of the feedback that we have had from person's in the community points to a real strong desire... to keep the library on the ped mall.... Scary thing to me about the discussion... 80,000 square feet of library on 64-1A is going to be a major portion of the use of that site. It cannot be minimized to say if it might fit, we will put a library in there.... If you want to spend another 12 months figuring out what multi-use means and then decide that it doesn't include the library, that is going to be extremely disappointing and not just to me. Kubby/Council has talked about... multi-use and I think we need to go back to that list .... I don't feel like we need to define that... Lehman/...We talk about multi-use... start using the xvord primary use of the library so that these other things are accessory uses.... The primary use of that property should appear to be library .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 16 Thomberry/The primary purpose of 64-1A, to me, should not be the library. Lehman/From an appearance standpoint, I think it should .... Kubby/ Thomberry/ Lehman/If we are going to use this as our preferred option... if this is what we are going to tell the Library Board, I think we need to tell them that this is going to very obviously be a library.... It is not going to look like a multi-use facility with a library stuck in the comer .... Thomberry/ Lehman/ Norton/It is clear to me that two full floors basically would take care of the library.... I want to be sure is to have a backup. If that tums out not to be feasible, to have these other uses on top of the library purpose and CenterSpace. I don't want to ignore that ..... I want to be sure we have a backup position ready to roll.... You keep forcing to one bow in the arrow or one arrow in the bow. Franklin/It is not like your quiver is empty. Norton/I think we ought to have a backup .... Franklin/We have backups here but them is no way that 1 can in three months give you a full evaluation of all of those. Norton/ Martin/If council is willing to consider the original proposal of the Library Board as a backup, it is costed, clear. Norton/That is true. Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 17 Council/(All talking). Hubbard/I have a suggestion... one of Library Board's priority... assist the city... in developing its hopes for that plat .... anchor function to attract others .... Greenlea~ How long would it take you to do an evaluation of Option 3? Franklin/The timeline that I have set for myself is three months. SingermaW Franklin/It should be a way to finance INs, a conception of what the building would look like, how we would fit these different uses in. Possibly identifying some players.:.. Nov/What is the number of square feet on there? Franklin/It is about 37,400 when you take the easement out I believe .... Thomberry/Would the first floor entirely be library? Franklin/I don't know.... work through... engage an architect to look at this to see what some of the possibilities are. Kubby/...proposal to go to the west.... reading room.... I really appreciated that feature... function... Franklin/...not getting a fine architectural design... a concept, yes .... Singerman/One of the things... library piece be designed by someone who has experience in designing libraries. Franklin/Yes. Traw/You would like us to decide tonight is.... once we arrive at a site, all of these other questions will be answered later? ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996 December 9, 1996 Joint City Council-Library Board Meeting page 18 Franklin/If what comes out of this and what I hear coming out of this is the 64-1A site, we will look at this mix of uses, generally this mix of uses with the different factors that have come into the discussion tonight. That have to do with parking, that have to do with the space, compatibility of the different uses, separate bond issues, to try to answer those questions and how this thing could be financed. Traw/It would include phasing it or not phasing it, fight? Franklin/Yep. So if that is the direction, we will go with it and we will meet again, the two bodies together in March. So don't go anywhere in March.... Spring break .... It will probably be then, the third week in March. Thank you .... Adjourned: 6:20 PM FLIP CHART: Parking (connect to Dubuque/underground) Conference Performance/Auditorium/Arts Center Hotel/Private Library Compatibility of use Tax Generator Phase Project Separate bond issues This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 9, 1996. WS120996