HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-12-03 TranscriptionDecember 3, 1996
Council Work Session
page 1
December 3, 1996
Council Work Session
5:40 PM
Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry, Vanderhoef.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Boothroy, Franklin, Davidson, Handsaker, Mitchell.
Tapes: 96-139, all; 96-143, Side 1.
Review Zonine Matter~ 96-139 S1
a. Consider setting a public hearing for December 17 on an ordinance vacating the
north 1 2.§ feet of the F Street right-of-way for a distance of 75 feet immediately
west of First Avenue. (VAC96-0002)
Franklin/Set a p.h .....ordinance to vacate a portion off Street. This is a small portion of
F Street ....
Nov/I take it this is not significant?
Franklin/No, it is an extra wide r.o.w. We don't need it ....
b. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, Article J, entitled "Overlay
Zones," Section 2, entitled "Planned Development Housing Overlay Zone (OPDH),"
subsection D, entitled "Regulations," to indicate that parking reductions may be
approved for non-residential uses as part of a Sensitive Areas Overlay rezoning.
{Second consideration)
Franklin/Second consideration on the parking reductions in OPDH.
c. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 7, entitled "Land
Subdivisions," Article A, entitled "General Subdivision Provisions,"
Section 4, entitled "Establishment of Control," pertaining to City review of
subdivisions located within two miles of the City's boundaries. (Pass and adopt)
Franklin/ .....C. is the two mile extraterritorial limit.
d. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article M,
entitled "Accessory Uses and Buildings," Section 1, entitled "Permitted Accessory
Uses and Buildings," to allow satellite receiving devices one meter or less in
diameter in any yard or on the roof of any structure in residential areas. (Pass and
adopt)
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Franklin/D., e., and f. are the Telecommunications Ordinances.
Nov/And they are all pass and adopt.
Franklin/They are ....
Vanderhoe0' Is there any rush to get b. collapsed? ....
Franklin/You can if you want. It is kind of up to you ....
Norton/
Venderheel/Does anyone else want to collapse?
Lehman/All right.
Venderheel_/Fine, I don't care ....
Kubby/We shouldn't collapse unless there is a reason to collapse.
e. Consider an ordinance amnnding Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article I,
entitled "Public Zone," Subsection 4, entitled "Special Exceptions," to allow
communications towers as a special exception in the P, Public zone. (Pass and
adopt)
f. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article B,
entitled "Zoning Definitions," to add definitions associated with wireless
communications facilities, including "communications tower," "communications
equipment building," and "communications station." (Pass and adopt)
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Burlineton Street Median Landscane 96-139 Sl
Davidson/ ....it was almost a year ago... that you adopted the Near Southside Design
Plan .....It was December 5 of last year .....of which there are several elements in a
timeline of things to do in the next couple of years.... things that are even longer
range out. One of the things that is in the 0 to 2 year period for your consideration
is this concept of a boulevard on Burlington Street and this is something that the
Design Plan brought forth as an element to be considered to kind of make a better
linkage to unify the Near Southside with d.t. as well as enhance the corridor...
Computer simulations .... (refers to overhead plan) ..... When titis idea was
proposed there were two main concerns... unresolved... First one was the
maintenance ..... (Refers to plan)... Page 2 we have added the proposed
Hieronymous Square Building ..... It is a fairly massive structure.
Kubby/I am sure the Mod Pod folks would not like that picture because that building is
gone.
Davidson/That is the way that Hieronymous Square has it proposed.... clearly that is an
issue to be resolved. In the third one... show what the median would look like. I
want to talk a little bit about the exact proposed design that we have here. The two
things that were questions ..... first one was the maintenance of these. The Project
Green representative was concerned... eyesore.... trees would die... mess.... We
specifically did some research into what would be the lowest maintenance and
most hardy type... What you see ere is something the City Forester has looked at
and thinks is a really good design ..... much better design... along the parking
ramp.... The variety of true here... Prairie Spire Ash or Fall Gold Ash are the two
varieties that he has done some research on ..... cold and drought resistant ..... He
considers these to be very appropriate trees for this type of treatment. What you
see here is a ground cover type of material.... type of vegetation.... Trees are
shaped... overstory trees .... (Refers to plan).... This dimension right here is about
three feet tall... provides... DOT requires so that people aren't running into trees...
provides a real nice planting bed ....
The second thing that was a big concern... was capacity of Burlington Street...
Burlington Street is an important enough traffic can3ting corridor in this area that
we have to not only maintain the existing left turn lanes at every intersection...
allow a little bit of even extra room beyond what we are using fight now and that
is what we have done ..... What we have got in this design is 115 feet at every one
of them.... allows about six cars to stack .... Certainly during peak periods, we are
at what the Traffic Engineers would call saturation. You are not going to add
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much more traffic to Burlington Street during peak periods.... It leaves about a 75
to 80 foot area in the middle of each block that you would be able to do the tree
islands. There is two trees in each one of these.... It really does kind of enhance the
corridor as you look from one end down the whole street... The DOT has given us
preliminary concurrence with this ....
One other thing that we wanted to bring up.... double edge sword... There are
currently between Madison and Gilbert Street, there are three alleys. One ofthem
is right in the middle of this building that is scheduled to be closed ifthey do both
phases of that building.... There are two other alleys.... (refers to plan) ..... that
would be limited to right in and right out movements.... It does help the capacity of
Buffington Street a little bit to make these right in and right out.
So what we are looking for, Planning staff, is this something you want to go any
further with? Is this something, basically, where do you want to take it?
Lehman/Right now on Burlington Street, the left turn lanes have arrows. You cannot turn
left on a right light. It has to be a green arrow.... why?
Davidson/The short answer, Ernie, is that is the way the traffic signal system is set up
right now. The traffic signal system on Burlington Street ..... is set up to minimize
the delay at each individual intersection rather than favor this movement ..... It is
possible, Ernie, to manipulate those. The city has not, as a policy, decided to do
that yet.
Kubby/Because there are so many pedestrians .....
Davidson/
Lehman/Why couldn't it be let~ turn on green or yield on red?
Nov/Or it could be the five light system...
Davidson/It is possible .....There is ahvays a possibility of upgrading the signal system ....
Kubby/
Nov/You could have a yield sign... rather than a stop ....
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Woito/It is subject to change.
Davidson/It could be changed... we would have to work with the DOT on it.
Lehman/Would this be entirely at our expense?
Davidson/Probably.
Lehman/ ..... We have appointed a group of folks to look at the d.t. area. I have been
pretty impressed with.... I would like their input on what we are thinking about
doing ..... We have asked them to look at the entire d.t. area and I think this is a
significant part of it.
Franklin/We have a meeting on the 18th of December... and we wanted to get this to you
all first. But we will bring it to them on 18th of December. There is no particular
urgency about this. We have brought it up and it is part of the Near Southside
Plan... step forward in implementing that plan. If you would like we could ask
them to specifically respond to this proposal at that December 18 meeting.
Kubby/On the other hand, it is part of a plan that is approved ....
Lehman/I think as a courtesy to them, they should have an opportunity to respond to it.
Thomberry/At least give input.
Kubby/Do you have a cost estimate?
Davidson/No... Ifyou indicate you want us to go ahead, we need to figure out some
things...electricity? ..... Do we want to mn irrigation to it? .....
Nov/I want to know what is going to happen with the leaves that fall.
Davidson/My understanding is that the leaves... would go into that center area .....
Nov/They are going to be covering the ground cover or they are going to be in the street.
Davidson/Leaves fall into the street all over town. I can ask Terry about that more
specifically. He didn't mention it as a concern, Naomi.
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Nov/... What happens when there are leaves on the street and there is this much traffic?
Kubby/
Thomberry/The leaves are mulched by tires.
Davidson/They get blown away ....
Thomberry/...Why in the world isn't there a fight turn on red going into the Holiday Inn
into the ramp area from going west on Burlington?
Davidson/Is that prohibited, going right on-
Nov/Almost every intersection has a no fight turn on red.
Da~Sdson/I can check in to see why those were prohibited.
Kubby/Pedestrians.
Davidson/Usually that prohibitions is put on because of pedestrians.
Thomberry/
Davidson/I think the experience is especially in the central business district the motorists
tend to be pretty aggressive .....
Thomberry/So do pedestrians.
Lelunan/
Kubby/Those are really traffic engineering questions and not median questions.
Vanderhoefi' Jeff, with the island proposal, do we purchase any additional land?
Davidson/No additional r.o.w.
Vanderhoeff Itowever, we are talking ten feet?
Davidson/It is ten feet wide and about 75-80 feet long.
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Vanderhoet7
Davidson/The lanes would all remain their existing-
Vanderhoef/This is just that right run lane that is going all the way down? Okay, what
precludes us from putting trees to the outside of the street versus down the center
of the street?
Davidson/(Refers to plan). One of the reasons that our design plan consultant felt this was
such a good idea was because of the.... overly restrictive clear zone requirements
that the state DOT has. Basically 12 feet back from the edge of the curb you can't
put anything ..... They won't let us do anything else... One of the reasons why we
thought that this would be such a nice idea.... to get a little bit of greenery in that
corridor given those restrictions.
Vanderhoeff
Davidson/They won't let you if they think vehicles are going to hit them ....
Vanderhoeff
Davidson/
Norton/This will keep people from )umping into those turn lanes .....
Davidson/This center area tends to be kind of a no man's land. It is not really marked .....
Our driveway access control is real good along Buffington Street .....
Norton/I think this really facilitates the left turn lane safety .....rights out of the alley is
sensible .....
Vanderhoeff Could we proceed at this point.... start making those alleys right onlys?
Davidson/Yeah, that is something we would take through council like we would any
traffic engineering question.
Vanderhoeff I would propose that we go ahead and get started with that because I tlfink
this is a real unsafe kind of thing .....
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Davidson/... We can take action on it.
Vanderhoef/I think it is a safety issue that we should at least consider.
Davidson/Okay.
Kubby/There are a lot of businesses who use their alleys.... We should have the coune2y
to contact those businesses to see how it will affect them.
Norton/
:ubby/
Davidson/Okay. I would be very surprised ....if you get a positive reaction from people
about that .....
Vanderhoef/
Norton/It is safety and enhancement.
Kubby/... businesses... explain to them before we do that as a public safety thing ....
Davidsoff In a commercial area we would do just that, ask the neighboring commercial
people how they feel about it.
Norton/1 would ask the D.T. Committee for their comments ....
Davidson/Okay, we are going to do that. Do you want us, at that point, to come back to
you then for a formal decision on if you want to go ahead and actually get
something designed?
Kubby/I guess I want to see what the cost is ....
Davidson/ls there a majority ofcouncil that wants us to go ahead and see what one of
these treatments would cost....?
Council/(Yes).
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Davidson/You have got $100,000 a year for Near Southside Enhancements in the
adopted CIP .....
Vanderhoeff ... at this point I am not sold on this particular plan and I would like to see
some alternatives ...... I am not as convinced that things are going to grow out
there and be attractive and stay attractive...safety issues, that barrier ..... I have
seen some very effective things done with banners and poles and changing of
banners and lighting of poles .....
Davidson/So you would have those instead of the trees?
Vanderhoeff And quite possibly a lot smaller than the 10 feet.... I would like to also
know.... if DOT would have same restriction for us if we were to do banners down
both sides of the street?
Davidson/Yes, they would.
Vanderhoeff So it has to be in the two foot are between the sidewalk and the building.
Kubby/1 think a few banners is great ..... There is just as much labor in changing those
banners ..... as there is in midnight mowing or whatever .....
Davidson/Maybe that is something we can take to the DT Committee.
Council/
Davidson/I was around when we put these trees in... have done a tremendous job... they
have really flourished .... very hardy.
Council/
Nov/I think we hear-
Franklin/Another part... Brick crosswalks are shown in this illustration, too. What we
did... bring brickwork done in Gilbert Burlington on up the corridor .....define
those pedestrian crossings.
Nov/
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Council/
Davidson/(Refers to plan) ......
Franklin/It is not a walkway?
Davidson/Okay, we will take it to the d.t. group and we will put some numbers together
as to what the expanse might be and we will comeback.
Nov/Steve, since we have mentioned banners tonight, I would like to say it is time to take
down the ones for the road races ....
Lehman/Those will be taken down tomorrow or Wednesday .....
Arkins/I Imew that.
Nov/
Lehman/Joy and Peace.
Nov/
Lehman/DTA ended up taking care of that ....
Nov/Ask him if we can have some sesquicentennial banners as well as Peace and Joy ......
Lehman/ I store almost everything at my store... road races... University... ones for
DTA ......
Nov/
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Hickory HillWest 96-139 Sl
Franklin/Someone from the council, I think, wants to talk about this... Karen or Dee.
Kubby/Everyone knows the issues.. you got my memo... At the last JCCOG meeting, I
had requested that people take this idea, two ideas, back to their jurisdiction so
that we could discuss it at the JCCOG level ......
Nov/Did you have anything specific in mind?
Kubby/In terms of what part? No. I haven't looked at it that closely to determine what I
think, personally would be the best place ..... input from P/R ..... Dee had this
brainstorm of possibly having some land adjacent to any future parkland be for
cemetery ..... interesting idea .....
Vanderhoef/They work well together in maintenance and care ..... I would like to support
some west side parkland and ... cemetery space to the west pan oflowa City .....
Thomberry/
Norton/....get some kind of green space along that route ..... 1 think it would be lovely to
help define a corridor along that side a little more clearly that we have been able to
do ....
Baker/ .....I want to have some more discussion on the kind of cemetery you might be
contemplating out there ....
Norton/
Baker/
Kubby/For the record, this idea really came from Jim Walters.. discussing he and I had
about 965 .....
Lehman/When are we going to discuss ....Oakland Cemetery? .....
Atkinrd I was going to have to ask Linda that question .....
Mitchell/Should be on next council meeting .....
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Atkins/Between now and next council meeting, we will confirm that for you.
Kubby/So in general we are in agreement that it is something we would want to do?
Lehman/To look at. See what we are looking at as far as cost and how it lays out and
whatever. I personally have a different idea for a cemetery .....need to know what
it is going to cost us.
Kubby/I guess.... support for the concept of another wild park that has trails.
Lehmapd Quiet green space.
Thomberry/It might back up to... Camp Cardinal.
Lehman/
Thomberry/It could be on the east side of 965 and back up to Camp Cardinal.... big
park.... in conjunction with that .....
Kubby/I don't have a problem in talking with Coralville in collaborating ....
Norton/Does the Open Space not go that far? Will that be updated pretty soon? .....Will
the P/P, be updating that?
Franklin/It probably won't be modified in this part because our growth area doesn't
extend to the west. Basically our corporate limits I think are here, Jeff (refers to
map). So we have already got our Neighborhood Opens Space Plan for this part of
the city here ..... It is different than what Karen is talking about... city wide park.
That plan doesn't address those larger park needs.
Vanderhoe17 There is the Hunter Run area out there ....
Franklin/That is a very different kind of topography .....south of here ....
Vanderhoe~'
Thomberry/ ....We can't maintain the parks that we have now ....
Baker/Hickory Hill doesn't take a lot of maintenance.
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Thomberry/It could use more.
Baker/I think we have got a majority for the concept.
Kubby/Dee, an other issue that was in my memo... committing to when the mad is being
built, that we have certain requirements in our contract with the people building
the road about having as least amount of disturbance as possible.
Franklin/You have joint standards with the City of Coralville now for... arterial streets.
They are fairly minimal .....What you might wish to consider is entering into some
agreement with Coralville .....County is not going to build any of this... for what
the standards would be for the 965 corridor in te~ms of width ofr.o.w ....
parkway.... similar to the discussions we have had about Oakdale Blvd .......
Kubby/.... how it is physically constructed .....trees... are maintained ....
Franklin/
Nov/I would like to say I concur with the construction idea. I think we have to maintain
those trees. I have some reservations about how we would purchase property for
some future park. I would like to see a proposal for financing on that one. Think
we could get that ...... How would we pay for it? .....
Kubby/We could have a Hickory Hill West reserve fund.
Nov/How is it going to be... budget....?
Atkins/You have a Parkland Acquisition Fund right now .....$500,000 ....
Lehman/Can that money be spent for buying property outside the city limits?
Arkins/...sure as long as it is for parks purposes .....
Kubby/
Arkins/There are some other options that you want to think about .... variety of things
you can do. I hear you are interested. We will put some ideas together. We haven't
nailed down exactly where you want it to be.
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Nov/...just give us some ideas.
Arkins/I will figure out some cost on some acreage out there... 40 acres .....
Norton/
Lehman/
Arkins/You want me to £ool around with some ideas.
Nov/... what kind of financing will we use... when.
Arkins/
Norton/Don't you think it is important to have P/R take a look at this? ......Ought to ask
them to take a serious look at this .....
Lehman/Absolutely .....
Norton/
Arkins/I will talk with Terry .....Let us just put some ideas down ....
Kubby/Thank you.
Thomberry/...Deer reserve... petting park .....
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Graffiti 96-139 SI
Nov/Graffiti, Dale.
Helling/! sent you a memo about a month ago. The policy we worked out with staff is
basically it is taking into account existing staff and resources ..... policy that
addresses it as aggressively as possible within our resources and that is what we
have.... have the recommendation of an ordinance that would try to evoke some of
the same responses from the private sector.
Baker/Did you look at comparable ordinances in other cities....?
Helling/No... concept is whether or not you want to enforce this by ordinance. If you do,
that is what we will need to do, go back and look at some.
Nov/I would like us to re-check what kind of penalties we can have for the perpetrators
of graffiti if they are caught.
Helling/We looked at... simple misdemeanor .....and also the municipal infraction ....it is
possible to do it .....
Baker/Within our existing eapabfi~ttes. Not assuming any increase in personnel?
Helling/Right ..... If we wanted to be more aggressive than this, we would probably have
to have say a crew on streets that could go out and do this immediately.
Baker/ ....More intense maintenance ofd.t ......
Helling/This does involve perhaps some changes in priorities.... in order to get at this a
little faster .....
Kubby/I also would want to know what would get lower on the list .....
Helling/Depends on the season.... other parking ramp maintenance kinds of things ....
Public Works... assign people to do this as quickly as possible... Right now it all
gets removed, it is just a matter of time.
Baker/For the last 45 minutes, every issue we have talked about we have always said let's
send it to somebody else for their input.... ought to go back to that DT Committee
and get some sense of where is their priority on this and are they really willing to
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advocate that we increase- I would like to see the d.t. business people be
financially and labor .....
Helling/We take care of city property ..... limited amount of private property... Only when
you get into the ordinance and enforcement of the ordinance where we would
remove it and bill it back would you actually get the city being involved in removal
from private property.
Kubby/How much of the graffiti that is out there is on public versus private property?
Helling/....lion's share probably on public property.
Kubby/... I am not at this point... to say I want an ordinance .....
Vanderhoeff .... a lot of it is removed if it is on the face of the property.... alley side, it
may stay there a long time ....
Nov/It is at least somewhat true... baseA on cost.... I don't know how many people can
afford to re-paint the back of their building every other day.
Norton/
Kubby/
Baker/...Monday Forum ....
Kubby/Idea... graffiti artists have a permit and they get a certain square footage of wall
for a month. They can do what they want... rules.... part of the permit is that you
have to white wash it for the next permit holder as well... on an alley ....
Baker/Seems like we have been talking about this for a year... can't get anywhere with it.
Thomberry/
Helling/... in actuality, all of these things that are suppose to be wonderful, don't work
that well .....
page 16
Nov/I went to a demonstration...
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Norto~,d Let's look into the possibility of providing some areas .....
Lehman/I am d.t. everyday. Most of the graffiti I see is not on public buildings d.t ......
This is on private property.... alleys need to be cleaned just as quickly as the fronts
of buildings.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-139 SIDE 2
Lehman/Talk about private building owners should clean them. I pay $2200 a year taxes
on my house. I pay $24,000 on that building. My lot width and that building width
are almost identical. The cost of the city providing services for my building d.t. is
literally no more than it is for my house at home. I think for the extra taxes that d.t.
property owners are paying, we have a right to expect a little more .....
Kubby/.... You are gaining a lot income.
Baker/... remove graffiti from all conunercial property anywhere in town? .....
Lehman/If you want to go by valuations, they are much higher d.t.
Baker/That is a value that you have that the other properties don't have.
Lehman/Not necessarily reflected in the ability to produce income.
Kubby/Does that mean when your storm windows are broken, the city should fix them?
Thomberry/Graffiti is also posters and things... telephones poles are not the
businessmen's property.... I think it has got to be the overlap.
Lehman/I think you are going to see something come from the DT Committee on this.
Kubby/Does that mean you are interested in having an ordinance require the property
owner to remove it by a certain date7 ....
Lehman/Absolutely.
Thomberry/
Lehmann/Give them 24 hours or 48 or whatever.
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Kubby/I don't think an ordinance is necessary ....
Thomberry/Alleys...Clinton down to Linn is... well traveled... dumpsters... leaking stuff
all over.
Norton/Where are we on the graffiti issue? .....What are we doing with Dale's thing?
Kubby/We were going to ask the DT Committee to look at it.
Nov/I think the DTA might have some input on that one as well.
Thomberry/
Baker/Part of the thing.... control graffiti is not by cleaning it up... figure out ways to
discourage it.
Kubby/Either you discourage it or legitimize it in certain places.
B~er/You got to do both.
Norton/Where does Dale's memo stand? .....
Helling/I think what I would like you to do .... 1-1fthere is anything in here that you just
absolutely would not entertain... let us know. Beyond that it is just a proposal to
get more aggressive. We will take it to the DTA to get some feedback. the Forum
and the Association. Get some feedback and let you know what it is.
Nov/That is fine.... Will you also do some research on high we can go on signs for the
perpetrator?
Helling/A simple misdemeanor maximum fine is $100 and it is all the discretion of the
judge ....
Thomberry/
Helling/Generally speaking they will come in per charge ..... The only time it can
accelerate is when you get into a certain level of damage .....
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Baker/Can we set ourselves a deadline for getting something done, like a 60 day
deadline?
Kubby/It could come back to us the first meeting in January .....after the 18th meeting of
the task force .....
Helling/I can give this to the DT Foram and DTA in 6 days. I can't guarantee you when
we will get it back.
Baker/
Helling/I don't think the DTA will have a December meeting...
Kubby/If we say January 13th .....
Franklin/There are representatives of the Monday Forum and DTA on the DT Strategy
Committee. So we can try to get a sense ofthose two groups flora those
individuals ......
Norton/I have talked a lot with Steve.... short terms questions... aspects on d.t... Steve
has got something corning 14th or early January that would be appropriate .....
graffiti, other forms of clean up and security, issues .....
Atkins/I am preparing... memo... giving you a list of things that we have either done or in
the mill right now that affect d.t ...... I am also going to preview in here a couple of
budget issues that you will be seeing.... My bottom line on graffiti, you want us to
be more aggressive, if so, yes or no. And secondly, do you want an ordinance? .....
If you want other folks to look at this item, that is your call .....I am preparing a list
of things.
Vanderhoef/It certainly would speed it up if an ordinance were written for them to
respond to rather than wait until much later .....
Atkins/I think we can do that ....bottom line, what is it going to cost me and when do I
have to have it done.
Vanderhoefd Send out a sample ordinance ....
Atkins/Yes.
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Norton/
Atkins/....We have a large number of blank walls.... murals... get them to buy into some
beautification projects. There are things unde~ay ....
Baker/Great idea... mural aspect .....
Arkins/I envision the mural aspect to be an attractive feature for d.t ....
Nov/Is there a possibility.... present this as a positive beautification .....
Lehman/...I think realistic it would not work .....
Thomberry/
Lehman/interesting to see the experience of the school district... remove graffiti within 24
hours.... marvelous success ....
Thomberry/
Nov/I think we have a pretty strong opinion that graffiti should be removed ....
Norton/Draft an ordinance.
Thomberry/With an ordinance saying the property owner has got to eliminate that graffiti
in 24 hours or whatever, it is really not fair to that property owner.
Lehman/48 hours.
Nov/
Arkins/The ordinance will be rather simple to draft.... We can get you a drag ordinance ....
I think I can get it in 60 days, yeah
Nov/
Atkins/More concerned about getting other t,qks to comment on it .....
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Voucher Payment Standard and Utility Allowance 96-139 S2
Nov/Doug.
Boothroy/ .... Adopt a resolution that is included in your agenda which are both
recommended by the Housing Commissio i at their last regular meeting.... Voucher
Payment Standard is the staffs recommendation .....
Taking up the Utility Allowance first. The only difference between my
recommendation and the Commission was that I was proposing that there be no
increase in the Utility Allowance and the Commission felt there should be some
modest increase ..... does benefit the tenants ..... The Commission... if we are
dealing with FMRs and increasing Utility Allowance, there is a point at which the
Utility Allowances impact the amount of rent payable to the landlord .... negative
impact on the utilization of the certificates or the marketability of the certificates to
the landlord because they are not going to want to be placed in a situation where
they are going to have to adjust their rent in order to get that tenant to fit into that
unit or to keep that tenant in that unit. So the whole key to the Utility Allowance is
trying to come up with some kind of balance that recognizes that you can't have
reality with Utility Allowances because it would literally destroy the Certificate
Program.... You have to have a Utility Allowance that is there... to provide some
assistance to help maintain tenants within the units.... where their contract rent is
less than the FMR .....Easiest thing to do is kind of go with the Commission .....I
am willing to support the Commission at this time .....I think there are several
alternatives.... Leave the Utility Allowances the way they are, increase them ....a
lot of other different choices ..... some combination.
Kubby/The resolution that is in front of us is which?
Boothroy/It raises the Utility Allowances based on the Commission's recommendations ....
modest .... It was July '95. It hasn't been a long time. July '95 was the first time we
had raised Utility Allowances in like ten years ..... HUD requires that Utility
Allowances be considered... require that you have a Utility Allowances... don't
require an amount.... The Commission recommendation is... good compromise to
not doing nothing .....
Vanderhoeff I went and had a very nice discussion today with Doug... two questions ....
whether we had to have a Utility Allowance for the Certificate Program... other
question... Is it necessary to have the Utility Allowance for the Certificate Program
if we are going to have a Utility Allowance for out Public Housing? ..... It benefits
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the tenants in the Public Housing to have utility allowance ..... If we are decreasing
the payment to the landlord, how many landlords may choose not to enter into
Certificate Programs to begin with? If they choose not to enter into tile Certificate
Program, then it is affecting the tenant... fewer places to choose from.
Kubby/
Boothroy/Under the present Utility Allowances, last year we had 100% utilization of the
Certificates .... The existing Utility Allowances are not having a significant impact
on utilization of certificates today ....
No~o~
Boothroy/There is no other subsidy. The only thing you can look at is average contract
rent for the Certificate Program and you can see that they are below the new
FNIKs. Page 2 of the memo.... shows that what we on average finding people
eligible for assistance is $452 for a two bedroom ..... Tells me that at least 50% we
able to reap some benefit from the Utility Allowance as a result .....
Council/(All talking).
Vanderhoeff Until we get our answer as to whether we have to have the same Utility
Allowance for Public Housing and for Certificate and whether we have to have any
Utility Allowance for Certificate, I would propose that we defer this section of that
until we get more answers.
Boothroy/There is no immediacy of this ..... My position is we don't do anything
anyway .....tfyou prefer to defer it until I get an answer... in time for your next
meeting ....
Nov/Can we vote on the Voucher Payment Standards only?
Boothroy/You can vote on the Voucher Payment Standard, totally separate item.
Kubby/Under what conditions.... property owner would net get same amount of rent. I
want to know what conditions and how often is that happening for the people we
have on the program now. How many people are we talking about? .....And what
are the upsides to the tenant ofincreasing the Utility Allowance?
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Boothroy/The upside the tenant is in some situations, they would be able to use that
money .... helps them get closer to the rent that is being charged in those situations
it is not putting them over the FMR... percentages are probably not available...
gross percentages ....I don't know whether our computer can run that report for
you.
Kubby/A matter of some people benefit under one way and some people benefit the other
way ....
Boothroy/That is what is so frustrating.... in some cases it does become a negative. If you
are going to defer this, let's go ahead and decide that.... We can come back with
maybe some more examples.... get you within a ballpark as to how many people
are impacted .....
Norton/
Boothroy/
Nov/....On this allowances charts.... I am looking at Utility Allowances, it is an all white
sheet. Will you tell me why some of these numbers are floating rather than
confined to boxes? It makes no sense ....
Boothroy/I guess we forgot some lines .....
Nov/Why would cooking have a floating number?
Thomberry/
Boothroy/They should be included in some-
Lehman/They shouldn't be floating.
Nov/Can we get some more definitive charts somewhere.'?
Boothroy/These aren't really handed out but they are staff working documents.
Nov/Well, talk to your computer and get us something that looks more reasonable and-
Kubby/I don't think that is going to help me at all.
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Boothroy/No, I don't think having a box around it is going to change it much.
Nov/I don't understand the chart itsell: Numbers should not be floating.
Thomberry/I have trouble voting on something that I don't understand at all .....
Nov/We should defer just that one and vote on the increase for the Voucher Standards,
the FMR standards?
Boothroy/In '95 we resolved, because nobody could understand it, to go ahead and adopt
what the Commission recommended after several meetings.... Under the Voucher
Payment Standard... immediacy... now into December. The longer we wait to
adjust that, the more people that miss out on being able to take advantage of an
increased payment standard. The chart on page 2... what staff did as a way of
determining what the new Voucher Payment Standard should be was take our
average contract rent.... and we use that as the standard for establishing the new
Voucher payment Standard ..... tied back to a real number ..... We felt that tying it
back to the actual numbers would put it in a situation where it would be more
realistic ..... However, the only parameter... HUD requires that the Voucher
Payment Standards be within 80% ofFMR ..... When you are dealing with a
program that is close to $2 million on the vouchers .... the cost of $147,733 can be
absorbed because of turn over ..... flexibility.
Kubby/That makes me nervous.... we approved a Annual Contributions Contract that had
a deficit that we got into our reserves for ..... here we are maybe approving
something.... $147,000 is nothing to shy away from. I am concerned .....I am
getting nervous.
Boothroy/You can go down to 80% .....
Kubby/
Boothroy/You can play with these numbers.... and come up with all kinds of different
types of scenarios. We believe $147- is a manageable number ..... If all of the
average contract rents maximizes out at the upper end.... then we will be $147- in
the red ..... Who is to know what is going to result in that situation.
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Kubby/What do those people do who are currently on the voucher program who are
currently in an apartment or dwelling unit that has a rent amount that is above the
average? ....
Boothroy/They make up the difference ....subsidy goes up so they are paying leas out of
their own pocket .....fourth column ....By matching the average Voucher Payment
Standard... meet the needs of 50% of the people ....
Kubby/
Boothroy/They are not going to be paying more rent ..... What we are saying by raising
this is that they are going to have a higher subsidy when they renew their lease ....
Kubby/What about the people who are currently paying above average contract? ....
Boothroy/They are still going to get more money ......make up a $40 subsidy .....
Kubby/Okay.
Boothroy/So this is a positive for the tenant... downside... it does cost the program
more.... $147- is a much more manageable number .....
Nov/We are already beyond 7:00. Can we agree that we will vote on the increase for the
FMR and defer the increase in Utility Allowance?
Boothroy/Voucher Payment Standard? Okay.
Norton/Defer-
Vanderhoef/We can vote on it.
Nov/
Kerr/17th.
Nov/12/17. Okay.
Karr/You can omit it from the Consent Calendar and defer it to the 17th.
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Nov/Yes, that is what I am proposing. I am going to propose that PCKB wait for later
and we have to consider appointments to Boards and Commission and we have to
have a short break ....
Boothroy/So, are you going to vote on the Voucher Payment Standard then?
Nov/Yes... defer the Utility Allowance.
Boothroy/Okay.
Vanderhoeff I have one more thing if we are going ~o vote on Voucher Payment. There is
two possibilities... retroactive... or as of today or as of February 1 .....Like us to
consider.....October 1... or February 1.
Boothroy/Sta~.. like to go back to October 1 ....about ....85-90 leases ....
Kubby/Resolution says October 1.
Boothroy/
Vanderhoef/... You could go forward.
Nov/Do you want to so Boards and Commission now? .... We could do it at the formal
meeting.... Human Rts. Commission.... look at my list .....I will show it to you ....
Council Appointments .....
Kubby/
Baker/Talk about PCRB.
Nov/We can talk about that later.
Karr/Are we going to adjourn the work session to reconvene or are you adjourning it to
end it?
Nov/We are adjourning the work session to take a break, back to formal meeting..
Karr/But you are not going to reconvene the work session?
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Coundl/(All talking).
Nov/....Adjoum, recess to after the formal meeting, okay.
[FORMAL MEETING 7:10PM - 11:05 PM]
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-143 SIDE 1
page 27
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PCRB 96.143 Sl
Nov/We reconvene our work session.... Police Citizens Review Board .....
Kubby/Maybe we could go page by page.... This is a real important discussion. It is really
late ....
Nov/We have been here for six hours already. Can we give it another 10-15 minutes and
then postpone whatever we haven't gotten to?
Vanderhoeff I would be in favor of that.
Nov/0kay....Page 1.
Kubby/I do. The first sentence under Section II. Complaint makes it seem like the only
time someone can come forward with a complaint if it is against a sworn officer
and I guess I want ..... some of those things could be done by a dispatcher or
another Police Department employee or CSO ....
Lehman/That could be true of a person that is driving a bus.
Atkins/The original language had Police Department employees and I took that out ....
Linda... recommended ....... had to be more specific ..... I think it should be Police
Department employees, a different set of rules .....
Norton/I think it should be department employee.
Lehman/
Kubby/Just the fact that someone is in the Police Department gives them more
authority.... Most people's perception would be there is a difference.
Norton/I agree that it should be Police Department employee.
Vanderhoef/
Kubby/Section II Complaint ....I guess I want to say any employee of the Police
Department ....
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Norton t I think we need probably some definitions somewhere in a separate section ....
Wherever you said police officer you say department employees.
Atklns/
Thomberry/When we originally started this thing ..... Is this a compliant depa'-tment for
the city? No, this was for the Police Department only.... the sworn orriccrs. That
was what I got... during an informal .... These are the people that carry guns ....
Kubby/We are focusing now on the Police Department .....or even just adding the CSO...
at a minimum ....
Thomberry/
Norton/
Baker/If we restrict it to sworn police officer... CSOs .... other Police Department
employees, there is an avenue of complaint process.
Atkins/Oh sure. There is one for police officers, too...
Thomberry/
Kubby/
Lehman/The clerk in the Police Department is not different than the clerk who takes my
check for my water bill. They are both clerks.
Atkins/It is just their departmental assignment. That is very true .....
Nov/
Arkins/
Nov/I am talking about people in the Police Department. Do the clerks have public
contact?
Arkins/... they do have public contact ....
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Norton/Is a police officer different from a sworn police officer?
Atkins/No.
Norton/W~ should be consistent ....
Atkins/It involves 66 people .......not your CSOs... dispatchers are a different position.
Baker/I don't have a problem with restricting the review to police officers because-
Kubby/They are the ones who have the capability of arr. est and using deadly force.
Baker/This is where the public confidence needs to be really focused.
Kubby/Would you agree with CSOs?
Baker/Yeah.
Kubby/Do other people agree with that7
Vmaderhoeff That is okay.
Thomberry/
Arkins/They can give parking tickets. They are not armed.
Vanderhoef/
Atkins/Separate positions, separate pay .....
Baker/But they are uniformed ....
Kubby/They help with traffic accidents... dealing with the public ....
Baker/I want the review process to cover those areas thai really are most import. ant as far
as the-
Thornberry/If someone stops a CSO .....can he chase him of stop him?
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Arkins/CSO doesn't have the power of arrest.
Thomberry/
Lehman/
Baker/Every citizen has the right to chase someone down and detain them, don't they9 ....
Kubby/Are there still four people who want to include CSOs in this process?
Council/(Yes).
Arkins/Okay, police officers and CSOs.
Norton/Still on page 1, paragraph 2. I would like to make clear there are really three
d;,fferent things ..... 2) to review on a continuing basis the polices, procedures and
practices of the department and recommend changes therein .....
Nov/
Norton/We want them to do more than just review. Then I want conduct on their own
initiative or at the request of the Chief or City Manager or the council
investigations into any incident activity involving Police Department .....I thought
there were three things they do. I will just leave Steve my copy.
In paragraph 3, The PCRB will be made up of Iowa City citizens, appointed by the
city council for a specified terms and serving without compensation. I do't see any
point in that second sentence.....just leave out the second sentence.
Kubby/For me, the reason I like it... people can come in on their own ....It is more inviting
to state that directly.
Nov/I can't imagine the ordinance will say without legal assistance.
Atkins/
Norton/ .....that would imply the other person goes without a lawyer ....
Vanaerhoef/ .....make it consumer friendly .....
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Norton/Do what you wish with that, I don't care. But I want also in there, the PCRB,
who do they report to?
Kubby/City council.
Atkins/
Norton/Report to the council, works with the Chief and City Manager. Are they
analogous to the P/Z ..... ?
Atkins/I think they are analogous to any boards and commissions .....
Norton/Adding that in paragraph 3, under 1, it would fit there that the Review Board is
made up ofpeople who are appointed by the council for specified terms, they serve
without pay, they will interpret its procedures with the spirit, etc., and they report
to the council.
Nov/You are writing the bylaws. We are just talking about setting this up.
Atkins/All the boards and commissions ....
Kubby/In the Intent section it doesn't really spell out... some kind of degree of
independeace in the oversight ....so that the police aren't watching over themselves
solely ....
Norton/Baldus had a kind of more flowery paragraph of intent... I think points should be
taken from... Make that first paragraph a little richer about the intent of this
thing ....
Atkins/We did that. I added that
Norton/Page 2... fifth sentence... must have personal knowledge of the incident. He said
that is a heavy requirement and it probably ought to be personal knowledge,
information or belief about the incident. That is the standard.
Council/(All talking).
Kubby/Have the word credible in there if we are going to do that ....
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Lehman/Just see the result, you sister beat up and she is afraid to go, you should be able
to go in.
Kubby/That is why the word credible is important .....
Council/
Vanderhoef/...hung up with... definition of credible.
Nov/Definition is very variable.... letter to the newspap~;r saying my son or my daughter
was mistreated by the Police Department ..... completely hearsay.... I would have
no problem if it were a parent of a child.... under 18 ....
Baker/How far can you can3' this complaint unless the person directly affected will not
participate? I am confused about where we wo~lld go with that. I understand the
problem but I do~,'t know how it works...
Kubby/The city council could.... ask ~.he PCRB to initiate the investigation.
Norton/There are other cases.... death involved ...
Kubby/That makes sense.
Baker/... I just see it as dead-end unless the person who is affected is willing to step
f'-rward.
Kubby/
Baker/]Do you set a limit ....30 days to provide first hand...?
Nov/
Vanderhoet~' A formal complaint must be filed with PCRB within 60 days of the incident.
Kubby/It doesn't sound like there is support for this. We should move
Council/(All talking).
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Kubby/Do we want to add a parent or guardian?
Thomberry/
Kubby/There would be an investigation... opportunity to talk about it, go through
mediation ....
Baker/
Nov/You need to allow the parent to bring the child and file a complaint and then have
the parent listen to the police officer.... help the parent and the child.
Baker/...As long there is a peint in which it is clear the person directly affected has to
come forward...
Kubby/Okay, so we are okay with parent or guardian?
Atkins/I don't know what you just did.
Kubby/In terms of personal knowledge ofthe incident, we are also going to add that a
parent of guardian can initiate a compliant for a minor under their charge.
Vanderhoef/At top, first paragraph, page 2 ..... talking about person making the
complaint....like to see complainant used consistently throughout the document.
Lehman/ This won't even be a document when we get through with it.
Vanderhoeff
Nov/The ordinance is going to be something else.
Kubby/Language consistency is fine.
Nov/Language consistently will be in the ordinance. Dennis will take care of it.
Lehman/
Norton/I have some suggestions about making that paragraph broken down into shorter
pieces, Steve.
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Nov/We are talking about agreeing on the policies. We are not writing the ordinance.
NoVon/
Nov/Linda is going to write an ordinance .....
Vanderhoeff When we get to the last line... "PCRB shall maintain a central registry of all
complaints." Since this is a volunteer appointed commission, I would like to see
the Police Department maintain a central registry of all complaints and that will be
available to the PCRB.
Lehman/That is a fox in the chicken house... the very people the complaints have been
filed about are now keeping the records regarding those complaints. They could
get lost .....
Vanderhoef/
Lehman/
Vanderhoeff I really think that this is where.... public knowledge...
Baker/The PCRB has got to have its own file. It is simply public credibility .....
Nov/I am g;.ving us five more minutes and then we are going home. Can we move on?
Kubby/Are there people who want to change it?
Arkins/The language was lifted from another ordinance.
Norton/Leave it that way. On page 3 .... trying to reorganize Section IV here... outline.... 1
want to put down in three steps that there were informal discussions that would
always be tried ..... If that didn't work, it would go onto mediation. If mediation
was not working or people dropped out of it, you would go into your formal
investigation. That is what I have outlined ..... formal investigation will be
conducted by a team made up of representatives from the PCRB and the police.
Nov/That is the basic concept. We don't disagree with any of it.
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Norton/That is a key point.. useful in organizing it.
Kubby/Section I1, page 3, paragraph 2 under Manner of Conducting Investigation. It says
the only time you can talk to a watch commander is if you have concerns about a
policy or procedure. It says nothing about being able to go through that process
when you have a concern about behavior of lack ofbebavior. I think that is just an
oversight of language.
Atkins/The intent is to cover all of it.
Kubby/There is also no mention in this paragrapl: nr lhis section of meeting with the
officer for infoJmal discussion with th~ watch commander and or the subject
officers .....
Arkins/I made the assumption the watch commander, thz officer, the complainant. They
are all together anyway.
Kubby/It doesn't say it ....
No,d I read that of as or.
Norton/I don't understand that paragraph at all .....
Nov/
Norton/... an informal investigation could always be initiated directly.... always start cut ....
with an attempt to do it informally.
Nov/No, the PCRB is going to determine the manner and I think it is fine.
Kubby/Shouldn't it be the complainant who has the discretion as to how intbrmal and
how soon...?
Nov/I think the PCRB should have some control.... The complainant may refuse ....
Kubby/I think it should be a complainant decision.
Norton/Everybody has to agree to do an inlbrmal discussion ....right?
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Nov/... I think if we are appointing this comnfission, we should give them some discretion.
Norton/... I think you need two chamaels here.
Nov/Are we ready to say we will move on and go home and finish this another day? Next
meeting, sounds good to me.
Kubby/And that this be at the front of the agenda... to make sure we get through this.
Norton/
Kubby/I am not sure we really finished this last discussion about who is in control of the
process...
Nov/Okay, we will start with page 3.
Adjourned: 11:50 PM
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