HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-10-30 TranscriptionOctober 30, 1996
Council Work Session
p~el
October 30, 1996 Joint Library Board-Council Work Session
5:10 PM
Council: Nov, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Thomberry, Vanderhoef.
Library Board: Hubbard, McMurray, Greenleaf, Spencer, Marlin, Traw, Cox (5:15 PM).
Absent: Singerman, Swaim.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Craig, Dilkes, Lubaroff, Nichols, Eckholt.
Facilitator: Arkins.
Tapes: 96-129, all; 96-130, side 1.
Arkins/Good evening and welcome ..... The way we have the ... late agernoon planned for
you is really going to be pretty straight forward ..... At this table, everybody is
equal ..... 14 voices.... I will use the consensus method. Ill see some consensus and
I call it, that ends it.... we move onto the next item. If you disagree, raise your
hand and tell us why ..... This is to be a discussion about a capital project. This is
not the operations of the library ..... Capital project planning session.
I need ..... an understanding from the group that there is an agreement that the
library needs to expand its services and facilities by way of this capital project. I
am assuming that we have consensus then and we are going to move on ..... Hoping
to arrive at some sort of a plan and a strategy with respect to the library project ....
My trusty assistant... (Susan Craig) ... will be in charge of writing.
When I think of the word plan, I think of something more physical.... When I think
ofstrategy, who are the players and how can we sell the project. Two critical
elements that I think we understand ..... overlap .....
The first exercise ..... What are the elements of a successful library expansion
project?.... What do you, as individuals, believe those items to be? What is your
read on the community? ...... Our first exemise ..... is again, what do you believe
today? ... go around the table and you each get one. We will pause for a minute,
think about it, we will start with Marty Martin ....
Martin/Sufficient square feet to allow us to operate into the next century comfortably...
More square footage.
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Norton/Easily accessible and d.t.
Atkins/You gave us two ....
Kubby/I can say d.t .....
Thomberry/....Contain high interest, high use materials with less popular items available quickly from other locations.... I could say adequate parking.
Arkins/Adequate parking we can handle .....
Cox/I would like to see it form the cornerstone for a revitalized d.t.... It should be... impressive ..... Impressive.
Baker/... public support.
Atkins/
Traw/Affordable.
Lehman/ ....packaging of this project is going to be the most element .....
Hubbard/Appropriate technology.
Kubby/Full range of free services.
McMurray/Patron friendly.
Nov/Improved meeting space.
Greenleaf/ .... square footage ..... to the reasonably foreseeable future that we talked about. We have been talking about 2010 .....
Atkins/ts this a bigger question ....
Nov/Room for growth is an issue.
Vanderhoef/Successful bond issue.
Atkins/Let's get this hung up and I will come right back to you. Now, looking at that, I will give you or
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Trawl ....Civic partnership. By that I mean all interested parties have a say .....
Arkins/All interested parties and civic partnership may be a little different.
Traw/I want to stick with civic partnership ......
Norton/I wanted to .... interconnected with other aspects of d.t. improvements .....
connected with other purposes like Centerspace ....
Arkins/Multi-joint use.
Norton/...part of a overall package that is bigger than just the library.
Atkins/
Cox/Something that gets everybody excited about the d.t.
Council/
Kubby/Integrated with other projects?
Norton/...like to see the library as part of a package.
Atkins/Part of a package ....
Thomberry/... possibility of a public/partnership to help the cost effectiveness .....
Arkins/A public/private partnership and that is somewhat both use and financing. That is a
comprehensive statement that you are making.
Cox/I think part of the package thing will make it successful.
Baker/
Thomberry/Use and/or financial.
Arkins/Okay.
Traw/Meets the identified needs.
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Arkins/And that is library specific?
Trau/Library specific.
Atkins/Okay. Meets the library needs of the community.
Hubbard/ ....I was thinking about community input in the planning.
Atkins/A participation kind of a statement.
Hubbard/Give them a chance to review what we propose and comment up on it. I think
that is participation.
Atkins/
Kubby/Council actively campaigning for a bond issue. I think that will be an element of a
successful expansion ....
Arkins/Passive and active support and you are saying active?
Kubby/I am saying active ....Council actively campaigning.
McMurray/...having the public understand what the future needs are, not just the current
needs, but the future needs.... Public education.
Arkins/Of the project.
Nov/Good design .....
Greenleaf/ ....Private library fundraising.... through the Foundation.
Vanderhoef/I was thinking about it in the public/private partnership.
Greenleaf/ ....joint use .....look at them as somewhat distinct.
Thornberry/I wasn't thinking ofthat when I said public/private use ....
Vanderhoeff ..... I am concerned about good design for future growth of the building
structure itself..
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Norton/We can't take issue with anything yet, I take it?
Arkins/You will get a chance to do that. Anybody else ....
Hubbard/ ....consider both elements, capital and operating.
Kubby/As part of the educational program, talk about both of those.
Arkins/
Norton/Thorough justification. We have to have a really convincing presentation ofthe
case.
Thomberry/On an expansion project, ! am not sure that only d.t. needs to be looked at .....
possibility of having branch elsewhere other than d.t.
Atkins/Library expansion. The general consensus had been-
Thornberry/Expansion of the library.... does not necessarily mean the physical building in
one location.
Arkins/Branch library ..... Okay. Anyone else? Any general- Okay.... Is there anything in
here that is obviously repetitive? ......
Baker/Public support and justification.
Norton/Justification goes together with needs to identif3, library needs.
Atkins/I see two things. One is plan and strategy begin to overlap.... Secondly.... we
have.... internal-external... Bottom line would be all of these are critical elements
to our expansion project. D.t. language came up frequently ..... expansion of library
service does not have to occur d.t ......Hold those for a little bit. We come back to
them.
CHART #1 ELEMENTS OF A SUCCESSFUL LIBRARY EXPANSION
More Square footage
Easily accessible and downtown
Downtown
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Adequate parking
Impressive
Public support
Affordable (capital and operating)
Packaging
Appropriate technology
Full range of free service
Patron friendly
Improved meeting space
Room for growth
Successful bond issue
Civic partnership
Part of package
Public/private partnership (use and/or financial)
Meets identical library needs of the community
Community input in planning
Council actively campaigning for project
Public education ofthe project/needs
Good design
Private library fundraising
Thorough justification
Branch libraries
Arkins/ .......The question that I am going to pose to you is what are the options
available? These four options have already been reviewed by the library .....And I
put these on to start the discussion on options because I think this component of
what we are about to do now is going to be the most difficult and so I want you to
be very clear. The Library Board, as part of their charge, reviewed each of these
and came up with a choice ..... Since that time... other folks have got other ideas
and other options ..... What I would like to do now ..... Is there an option out there
that appeals to you that you want the group to think about. We understand the
four.... alternate space needs. What other options? 1 can think of one immediately:
build a new library. Now that has a very far reaching consequences... figure out
what that means .....What options are out there? ......I am opening the question to
the group.
Norton/Would you repeat it, please?
Arkins/We know these five options have been reviewed. We have added another one:
build a new library which has evolved ...... Build a new library: 64-1A, other
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properties in d.t., combine with and combine without. That is what I am looking
for. We need to define these options ......This is more than a library project. I need
to know what that means to you.
Kubby/Two options... 64-1A mixed use ......
Atkins/
Norton/With retail and CenterSpace component .....mixed use .....
Arkins/Do you want just mixed use? .......
Norton/Private use.
Atkins/
Thomberry/Public/private partnership use and offinancial. It doesn't necessarily, the
building, have to be exclusively for the library.
Atkins/ .....You concur with that, a mixed use.
Thomberry/Mixed use between library and private.
Nov/
Norton/
Arkins/
Lehman/ ..... it becomes a matter of how a project could evolve by expanding on adjacent
property, how that compares with building a new mixed use building .....
Atkins/You have expressed.... adjacent property concept.
Lehman/Could very well be 64-1A.
Arkins/...that is a different project. Expanding to adjacent property is Lenoch and Cilek.
Going to 64-IA is a new project.
Norton/1 have another location, Steve. How about the bus station corner.'?
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Atkins/ ....other locations: bus station.
Norton/And adjacent properties.
Vanderhoet7 Another location... University... parking facility at comer oflowa and
Gilbert ..... labeled for parking ramp ..... There is space on our Civic Center lot
and.... by the Senior Center.
Atkins/...Civic Center lot ....Senior Center .....Okay, what else... options?
Hubbard/
Norton/It would include the parking lot next to their... Chamber... John Wilson's
building.... over to Chauncey Swan Plaza ......
Atkins/Anything else, new library.
(Man)/... a portion of64-1A would be used for library expansion and maintain the existing
facilities.
Atkins/I think you need to add to that list, you build a new library, you close the other
one. Close old/alternate use. You are not going to tear it down.
Kubby/But that was not the idea that was just put out.
Atkins/
Craig/Partial use of 64-1A for the library, combined with the current library.
Arkins/A bridge.
Craig/
Arkins/Expand to adjacent property.... 64-1A. Make that an adjacent property option.
Any other options that are out there?
(Man)/You could build it any place else out ofd.t. ifyou could find appropriate property.
Atkind Anywhere else outside ofd.t.. Pick a spot ......
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Kubby/What about south of Burlington... in terms of long haul vision.
Atkins/Okay, anything else on options to consider? Any options you don't think we
talked about? .....
Nov/
Arkins/Anything else on options? ......
Kubby/Thing I want to clarifi~ is the library's options were limited by the rules that were
placed upon them.... and one of the contingencies of hands off of 64-1A has been
removed .....
Norton/
Atldns/My point is that we have all heard different ideas. I just want to make sure we get
them all written down ..... We got to get them down and out on the table so there is
no doubt what we are talking about ..... The rules changes and around this table,
everybody is equal tonight. Okay, anything else on options7
Craig/64-1A._ I have heard a lot o£different scenarios for that.
Lehman/
Kubby/
Arkins/We have had a mixed use, we have had a sole use.... 64-1A has popped up several
times.
Nov/l£you build something on 64-1A and you don't build multiple levels, the library will
not take up the whole space. There£ore, it has to be mixed use.
Kubby/
Atkins/All we are doing is we are brainstorming right now.
Thomberry/Along with branch being in its own building, I think that a branch with a
private pannership is a possibility.
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Craig/
Thomberry/A branch library mixed use.... they did it in Canton, Ohio.
Arkins/Now, let's take another look at these options:
CHART 02 OPTIONS
Expand - present site
Expand - adjacent property 64-1A (L & C)
Branch library - construct
Branch library - lease mixed use
Book mobile
Build a new library on 64-1A
64-1A - private use
- mixed use
Other locations-
-bus station, Wilson's, etc. (Gilbert and College)
-Senior Center parking lot
- Civic Center parking lot
- U. of I. property - Iowa and Gilbert
Close old/alternative use
Within city limits
South of Burlington
Atkins/The question is that when we build a new library, I am making the assmnption that
we close the old one. The doors close and we use it for something else That use to
be decided ...... Is that what we heard? ...... an alternative use for the old one.
Thomberry/
Arkins/It is going to be difficult to analyze the new library ideas. New library and I want
the 4-5 meaty options ..... I am trying to understand what a new library means to
each of you. These are options for a new library ..... (Writes following chart):
CHART #3 NEW LIBRARY
Mixed use of site
Availability of 64-1A
Availability of other sites
Sole use orsitc
[Closing old-alternative use]
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Kubby/With the sole use of site, any site we choose to build a new library on if we chose
that option, could be mixed or sole use ......
Atkins/
Kubby/I just don't want the 64-1A in parenthesis after sole use to limit our thinking.
Arkins/Then we need to put it down.
Kubby/Sole use of site, whatever site. Mixed use of site no matter what site you choose.
Atkins/ ....mixed use, sole use, wherever it is .....
Norton/
Arkins/Anything else to describe this new library? Anything we are missing? ......
Norton/
Atldns/The next question is of the options, which fulfills your description of a successful
project. You have got to do some priorities now. What I would like to do is ....
each run of you is going to be given stickers. What ! want you to do is you are
given eight stickers.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-129 SIDE 2
Arkins/Give them any color they want.
Lehman/Do it that way.
Arkins/Take your stickers ....... eight of them. Put a sticker on everyone of those that you
agree with. But you only get eight.
(Reviews Chart # 1 Note: 0-orange sticker Library Board. B-blue sticker Council]
CHART #1 ELEMENTS OF A SUCCESSFUL LIBRARY EXPANSION
,/More Square footage
Easily accessible and downtown
ooobobo
bbo
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,~'Downtown
Adequate parking
Impressive
· /Public support
,/Affordable (capital and operating)
Packaging
~'Appropriate technology
Full range of free service
Patron friendly
Improved meeting space
· /Room for growth
Successful bond issue
Civic partnership
Part of packa'ge
boooobboobo
bbbb
bobbooo
bb
oobobo
ob
ooboo
bbobo
bbbboo
bo
o
bbbb
Public/private partnership (use and/or financial) bbb
,/Meets identical library needs of the community oooobbbboo
Community input in planning
~Council actively campaigning for projectooobbb
Public education of the project/needs bo
~'Good design bbbbooboo
Private library fundraising o
Thorough justification bb
Branch libraries b
Atkins/What I marked (-/) are your successful, are those items that have six or more and
again, the colors were to show you where folks thinking is depending on from
where you are coming.
Kubby/I did not put stickers on things that I thought were important that were assumed
like more square footage or public support .....
Lehman/ ....packaging and public/private partnerships are basically the same thing .....
Nov/Package and partnership could be interchangeable.
Atkins/Let's look just look and see if we have any general themes in here ..... (reviews
list) ..... Room for growth, does that mean expandable?
Norton/I don't understand that.
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Atkins/...talk about it.
Kubby/Expandability later on.
Arkins/Room for growth to me meant when we build, so that in 25 years we can add
another wing.
Norton/...I don't agree with that interpretation .....I think you build it and if you have to
go beyond that, you go somewhere else.
Atkinst Meets identified library needs.... Think about, is the library intended to be a public
gathering space or is it intended to be a library.
Kubby/Our library is both.
Atkind Wl-,at could you do if you took Room A and shut it down and made it library
space.
Kubby/A riot.
Atkins/This was all hypothetical.
Kubby/If 64-1A were constructed with good usable public meeting space, the library
expansion could take in that meeting space they currently have.
Arkins/ ....add public meeting space... other things you can do. Council actively
campaigning.... good design ....
Kubby/Room for growth and good design can add a little bit of money to the project and
there is strong council support for both of those things.
Atkins/Knowing what the key elements are... Let's go to the options you think we can get
rid of.
Baker/ .....I want to get a clarification on room for growth.... I didn't see building into
this project a potential for another expansion 20 years down the road. I disagree
with that concept ....
Cox/
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Thomberry/You have got a library that is 6 floors... with a University library four blocks
away.... How big of public library do we need in d.t. Iowa City and still meet the
needs of the community7
Kubby/...if we are going to build a new building ....commercial growth, residential
growth ....
Atkins/There is a usable life in any type of capital facility and you will build into the
library some room for reasonable growth .....Room for growth could mean
branches.... a number of things.
Norton/What I thought it meant is you would build it for what it now projects.... I ain't
building for the year 2050 ......
Atkins/There is an outside limit on any capital facility .....useable life.
Lehman/ ....growth factor .....
Norton/
Traw/My understanding... this group is not going to plan for year 2050 .....Room for
growth was an option concept ....
Kubby/It could also be for other public space.... having that kind of flexibility.
Arkins/Pull this out for the time being... go to the options .....I will ask that question, is
there room for growth on the present site?
(Reviews Chart #2 - crosses off)
CHART #2 OPTIONS
Expand prcscnt site
Expand - adjacent property 64-1A (L & C)
Branch library construct
Branch library lease mixed use
Book mobile
Build a new library on 64-1A
64-1A - private use
- mixed use
Other locations-
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-bus station, Wilson's, etc. (Gilbert and College)
Senior Center parking lot
- Civic Center parking lot
- U. of I. property - Iowa and Gilbert
Close olcl/altemative use
Within city limits
South of Burlington
Arkins/Seems to me the decision that you are coming very close to is that expansion is in
d.t; 64-1A is clearly an option, you want it to be part of a comprehensive project
involving some other uses.
Kubby/Interesting to spend a little bit of time talking about the d.t.
Atkins/
Cox/
Arkins/I am trying to go with the best of what we see in here. Remember... we have got
plan and strategy mixed all throughout here. I am trying to give you a plan .....
Cox/I am just saying that he has said, as a group, that we want it to be part of an overall
plan which I don't necessarily agree with. But it isn't really one of the things that
we have identified to be part of the whole plan and we had options to identify that
but we didn't.
Arkins/You identified it, you just didn't give it much support.
Cox/So I don't see that ...conclusion that we want it to be part of the whole plan. We had
the option to say we did but we didn't say it.
Kubby/
Lehman/
Atkind
Martin/We voted with our stickers according to the constituency we are trying to serve...
1 don't have anything against considering a mixed use situation or a public/private
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partnership, not at all ......I just didn't have enough stickers to put on every
place .....
Arkins/Mixed use implies mixed use. A component of that mixed use is a library that
satisfies the identifiable needs of the community. That is what it means to me .....
whatever your needs are, incorporate those into a mixed project. That is what I
heard you say.
Atkins/
Hubbard/We don't want to library to go down the tube just because we have proposed
something that includes a lot of other things.
Atking/... But you have said the library is part of a more comprehensive project.
Kubby/That it could be ....
Baker/Don't you have to rule out sole use of site under new library... that is not a goal.
Kubby/I don't know if we have done that as a group.
Norton/... I think it makes a package that is more attractive and more salable and more
efficient. I am trying to make a virtue out of necessity to some extent ......That is
why the mixed use comes up.
Vanderhoef/ ..... do that in a new building.... capital needs in the rest of the city.... If you
don't get it too mixed with other projects.
Nov/We have talked about conference space for a long time.
Arkins/Your conversation is we support mixed use.
Kubby/...sole use meets these criteria.... we get into a potential conflict down the road
with mixed use unless it was a scenario.... with this room for growth... for the
library ....
Arkins/
Kubby/That is a caution ....mixed use ....
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Thornbemy/What I saw in the new building.... on expansion of adjacent property, they
were going to lease back some of that space.
Kubby/But there was room for expansion above .....
Thomberry/ .... still has those lead nearing walls ..... might be needed in year 2012... then
you could take their space and just expand up a floor.
Atkins/Let me deal with the locationat issue.... The library... was a mixed use concept...
was pretty well on the table... established.... Mixed use is established. That was the
original library proposal. Now is the discussion, I don't like the location, put it
somewhere else? ..... Is that what I am hearing.
(Several people said yes).
Lehman/A new library on 64-1A or use of the present facility expanded over there.
Atkins/That is an affordability question .... cheaper to build a new library on 64-1A? ... Is
it easier to build a wing on the library and bridge it over, have it part of other
mixed use projects. lfaffordability is the critical issue, we can't answer that
tonight, we have got to go back and do your cost estimates.
Hubbard/I think we would have a more functional library if we simply built a new now
and used the current building for some other use.
Greenleaf/I think that as an important distinction that we ought to keep in mind here,
when the Lenoch and Click project was brought forth, that was a mixed use
because that maintained the status quo, retail presence on the plaza and we did not
want to disturb that. If we are talking about other sources of mixed uses... new
site... other public entities... other private developments, that to me, they are kind
of two separate issues ...... I would approach them differently. I knew very
definitely what I was trying to preserve in the Lenoch and Cilek project. Whereas
ifwe would go elsewhere, we are talking about a much grander scheme and a lot
of new inputs .....
Arkins/ .... you felt that was an important part of the success of the project was
maintaining that commemial space ..... Tax base issue ..... Question is we are
hearing that 64-1A to be put to some productive use and that we have in front of
us a very real project, that is a library expansion. Let's put a library expansion or
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new, cost it out.... on 64-1A as a component as other mixed uses.... Mixed uses is
acceptable.
Trawl The Library Board is not equipped... to design a multi-use facility that is going to
solve the city's parking problems and accommodate everybody's interest .....
Atkins/But if you buy in as a Library Board conceptually, that is the driving force to
cause these other things to occur ..... A direction you establish out of this is to get a
library.... Other folks are saying I want a mixed use.
Nov/We do not expect the library to design other space than the library space itself ..... I
don't see this as a conflict. There would have to be more than one person involved
in the design.
Kubby/... might have to say yes to a certain range of square footage... range of cost .....
And where is it within the physical space in the mixed use.
Trawl Time and money are two issues ..... The time it is going to take to get community
support for a facility that is going to do 25 different things .....
Cox/And it is not going to meet the identified library needs of the community.
Vanderhoef/ .... I do not see how growth and expansion of the library is real compatible
with performing arts kinds of spaces. I see it more in a more traditional building
with the flexibility for office space, conference space that are more open and less
intensive in design for a specific use like a cultural center ..... If we could split out
what uses we see would be compatible and would help work with the timeline that
I hear the Library Board is really concerned about .....
Arkins/You can't settle the timing question tonight. But you can settle the general frame
work of what is an acceptable project for you because you are going to have to
send it back and you are going to have to do estimates... you can always phase the
project.
Kubby/
Atkins/What I am assuming you will do, is once you settle in on the general project
framework, you are cutting us loose to put this thing together for us ....
Norton/A really serious feasible study ....
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Atkins/Right now we are trying to decide the library. You have decided it is mixed use ....
d.t .... current site is to be preserved ..... then the packaging.
Kubby/I don't know if we agreed that it has to be mixed use ....
Arkins/I came to the mixed use because your previous project was .....simple show of
hands.
Greenleaf/I am not endorsing mixed use but I would necessarily be voting against it .....I
have a product that I now sell. A mixed use... I don't know if that product sells ....
Kubby/
Thombeing/
Greenleaf/My first sale is 60% of the voters to approve a bond issue. That is the first sale
I am thinking about .....
Nov/... part of this discussion depends on the site.... city council .... oral commitment to a
mixed use on 64-1A site ..... It is a large square footage. If you are going to go for
the site where the bus depot is now.... you could build a four story library.... don't
need another use at that site. It will depend upon location.
Martin/...definition ofd.t.... Your definition... was that it needs the plaza. We did not ....
When you build the Chauncey Swan parking lot and try to convince the public..
that that is d.t.... you ought to be able to put a librmy next to it and still say it is
d.t.
Atkins/
Kubby/When I put my blue sticker on d.t., I mean the plaza because I think it is an
integral part of the core ofd.t.
Thomberry/Bremer's would say the plaza is not necessarily the only part ofd.t.
Kubby/
Norton/We do have to get clear on site location .....
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Craig/... If the library is to be on 64-1 A, the council says it must be with something else.
Norton/We are obliged.
Hubbard/However that requirement can be met... leaving adequate space for construction
of something else.
Norton/It could be met by having a piece of the library, too.
Thornberry/ ....I really at this point would like to say not retail.
Lehman/How much time and effort and expense, ifwe had 3-4 concepts in front of us as
to what are the possibilities?.... I think we need some basic concepts of what can
go on that property.
}tubby/
Arkins/What is mixed use-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-130 SIDE 1
Vanderhoef/Help me out with visioning council did with 64-1A. As I recall, it did not
include library and we had so many uses.
Arkins/It had public space .....and co~fference space...
Norton/...Does the library have to be within the confines of the ped mall or is outside of
that a possibility.... We ought to decide, do you want it outside Gilbert Street or
inside, for example. Karen's point about being south ....
Thomberry/... The old library was on Linn Street and it was a d.t. library.
Norton/...where are the limits of it?
Arkins/Do you want to make a locational decision... You have got to say it is d.t. Now,
what is d.t.?
Kubby/Is there general consensus for 64-IA? Narrow it down ......
Norton/With the implied ....mixed use.
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Thomberry/If it is on a different piece of property, it could be a sole use building.
Kubby/With the understanding that if people said yes to 64-1 A, it would be mixed use.
Arkins/64-1A is automatic mixed use. I think you have established that.
Kubby/
Norton/This could be kind of pretentious.
Craig/Could we get rid of some of these locations? Senior Center parking lot-
A~kins/
Traw/If there is a sole use facility that the council would endorse and support a library on,
that would be the preference of the Library Board... somewhere in the d.t. area .....
Kubby/I probably could support a sole library in the Civic Center lot or a mixed use
library in 64-1A ..... we could look at those options.
Greenleaf/
Arkins/64-IA mixed use is okay.
Norton/Yes.
Arkins/Make a list.
Lehman/
Kubby/
Baker/... they want library space. The council has another goal as well. We have other
public space that we need to provide somehow ..... I would prefer that we don't
present two different packages to the public eventually ..... It is one package that
serves more than one public function. It may not accomplish... Centerspace.... got
to accomplish some basics... conference center. I don't want us to end up with two
different bond issues. I think that is my point. I want one bond issue.
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Norton/So you think we ought to make a choice between sites.
Baker/...64-1A mixed use .....and we go out and try to put it together ....
Norton/
Arkins/
Baker/Clearly it is at least two floors of library space on 64-1A and conference space and
then private space to be determined use of later. But that is private money as well.
We are talking about public space and public money to include more than the
library on that site.
Arkins/64-1A mixed use with library a part of it or sole use of another site. Is it that
simple.'?
Norton/Yep, that is where we are at.
Arkins/Sole use on another site implies yoa are going to renovate the current one You
are not going to throw it away .....
Baker/l£we do sole use another site, we have got another issue which is d.t.
development ....
Arkins/Both of these are acceptable. Is that where we are. These are acceptable.
Cox/No, we are not there yet.
Baker/Sole use on another site is not necessarily acceptable to me.
Cox/It means we are held up by whatever plan.
Kubby/Remember we already have sort of a vision... 64-1A... some that work has already
been done ....
Nov/
Thomberry/That is why mixed use.. private, you have some leasable space.
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Vanderhoef/Include at least office meeting room kind of space above and beyond the
library space... I am also specifically asking about offices on upper floors.
Arkins/Mixed use other than the public is going to be driven by the market .....
Vanderhoeff I am not saying private office space. I am talking civic office space. So that it
will be all public spaces.
Kubby/ ....If council does not want to see a sole use coming in, then we need to give that
message to the Libras5, Board .....
Nov/I
would like to bring in one ~nore mix ..... If we are going to construct something on
64-1a, that includes some meeting space and includes some underground space
that the library could use, they may be able to expand their current meeting space
plus their second floor.... If64-1A is being constructed anyway and if there is
going to be a basement in it anyway, connect the meeting rooms under the plaza to
the library is a relatively easy thing to do.
Arkins/The library has the ability to expand fight now 8,000 square feet on that additional
floor.... convert Room A to library space. That can occur right away ..... Then you
expand what your other library needs are on 64-1A .....You are in library business
not the conference room business.
Cord We are sort of in the conference room business, too, because people come into the
library... we want them in there.
Atkins/Based on that theory, you should build it right across the street from the Rec
Center .....
Martin/Steve, it would be a great deal if you could say something about what a planning
process would look like that would develop a final proposal for mixed use 64-1A
and how would the Library Board relate to that process.
Arkins/What I would envision occurring ..... that 64-1A, we would lay out a project...that
would have a variety of components. One of the key components .... is the library
needs 25,000 square feet. That gets built in immediately. In addition... you would
have a conference center... CenterSpace... almost as building blocks. You build it
phase by phase if you want. We would have a comprehensive plan for the site, first
phase of the comprehensive plan is additional library space.
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Franklin/Yes, you would have to look at it comprehensively. And I think in answer to
your question, Mark, where the Library Board would come in and all the other
interested groups would be at that very beginning stage.... whether we phased it or
not would be an economical decision.
Atkins/... library interest in this case if this gets held up, the library needs are held up and I
think council is saying we are not talking about holding it up. We just want to do it
comprehensively and here is your piece of it and here is how your piece fits into
the plan for 64-1A ....
Kubby/;..We would have to be committed that the Planning Department's work program
included making this happen sooner rather than later .....
Martin/... I want a new library as part of 64-1A mixed use and you can do whatever you
want with the old building ..... Our concern is time... fact that we are running out of
space... that we are going to have to do something in this process to utilize the
space we already have in the interim period to make something work here.... It is
going to take the ability of all of us around the table to look beyond our particular
concerns to the vision ofwhat this community needs ..... timely manner and meet
the needs we have identified on the board in terms of the library.
Atkins/Mixed use is not out of the question, 64-1A is not out of the question. Timing
appears to be a question.
Vanderhoef/Something that hasn't been mentioned... about 64-1A property is that in the
past there has been conversation by the DTA and several others about retail on the
first floor and this is one of the things I have not been able to reconcile in my mind
is how do we keep retail on 64-1A and accommodate a library who also would
choose to be on first floor.
Atkins/I think it is a design question.
Franklin/I think it is also a market question ......There is going to be a real question as to
how much more retail we can put in ....
Arkins/That fashion needs to be designed in a fashion where it could be used for a variety
of sources.... those are design questions .....
Nov/IfPenny's moved out, there is 75,000 square feet that is potential usable space.
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Traw/I don't understand how this timing issue is going to be resolved when nobody can
agree on the mixed use and we are not going to have any input into that.
Atkins/We don't know what the mixed use is because it is market driven .....
Trawl How in the hell do you come up with a single bond issue that passes at one time?
Atkins/
Greenleaf/ ..... I think the library has had excellent political support from this
community.... I think.... we can sell a new library .....
Kubby/The other things... there are specific uses for specific square footage. We can get
people together.... I believe that it can happen ....
Arkins/The library has a much more narrow parochial agenda .....
Kubby/Are there four council members who demand that it be on 64-1A... if that is the
case we have an obligation to say that out loud and move forward.
Norton/My only question.... responding now to Chuck and Steve. There has got to be an
alemerit of reality about this thing ....... If it is not realistic, then to tie them into it is
unfair to their purposes and hard work.... Is it is viable proposal.... take a look at it
and see .....
Kubby/Parallel tracks of looking at both at the same time so that if one doesn't seem
feasible, we have already been working on the other.
Norton/I think we need to pursue both of those and see how realistic this one is and what
the feasibility of the other one is.... cost figures... We need to move promptly.
Thornberry/If we build a new single use library on a property other than 64-1 A, the space
in the current library could be used for CenterSpace... whatever ....Would that
take two bonds issues or could that be combined into one?
Arkins/Depends on the cost of the renovation .....That building would have to be
gutted.... Given the amount of money .....there is no real free clear space to
design.... You could put it as one bond issue.
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Norton/Karen's parallel plan of where we pursue the separate site and see what that looks
like and at the same time consider what other uses might be made of the library
site, either public and space... plus 64-1A... parallel things.... We have got to get
some reality in here.
Franklin/You are talking about a mixed use project... public private kind of project. It
does not need to be that right away. You can do a private... much more control if
it is a mixed use project but public space. Then you have total control ofthat
project ..... There is a cost associated with that .....
Kubby/Could you then condominiumize some of that public space so it is back on the tax
roles...7
Franklin/Yes, you could.
Kubby/Building it all as public and later on... when the market is ready for private entities.
Nov/You could say that you are renting space .....
Kubby/It almost sounds like that our preference may be 64-1A mixed use if it is feasible
and realistic but then have this parallel track of sole use on another site.... We are
still moving forward and ready to go.
Nov/I think if we are going to say sole use on another site, we ought to select one of
those things on the list ..... We ought to really narrow this .....
Atkins/You are coming to the conclusion of authorizing the direction for a feasibility
study is to do both. 64-1A mixed use with an appreciation of the tinting that the
library wants. In other words, sooner than later. At the same time.... a sole use site
at the same time.
Nov/It would be my preference to eliminate the sole use site and to go only to 64olA.
Arkins/I hear you want both of them.
Thomberry/I think we should look at both ......Doing both at the same time .....We have
got a fall back position .....
Kubby/ ....It would be economics that would make us look at sole use. Is that the case? ....
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Thomberry/
Lehman/The thing that concerns me ..... if it takes so long to package these things... sake
of the library, we may have to have a plan B which could be implemented at a
much more timely fishion.
Traw/Library Board's concern is time, it is accessibilities, sooner rather than later and it is
having what we need to meet our patrons needs .....Make an agreement that you
are going to build the library portion first .....
Thomberry/
Trawl ....move ahead with the library portion regardless of whether you finish the other
pieces. A lot easier for us to buy into it.
Atkins/
Norton/Both of your plans, Steve, have to consider alternate use or substitute uses of the
present library.
Arkins/We need direction from you. Here is what .....
Kubby/I have a summary... I wanted to say it out loud ..... That our preference would be
for 64-1A mixed use but we will go on a parallel track for feasibility study for sole
use on another d.t. site which might get narrowed down in a few minutes and that
money and timing will be the factors that will decide which direction we will be
going.
Arkins/I think you need to add the elements that the renovation of the current building has
to be incorporated into that.
Baker/Is it the implicit understanding that we have ruled out 64-1A as the sole site use for
the library?
Council and Board/(Yes).
Kubby/When we say renovate the current site, does that mean in a bond issue there would
be money for renovation or just that it would be available for renovation ....
Arkins/You should renovate it im~nediately ....
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Nov/It would depend on what the use would be.
Chart t/4 WHAT DOES PUBLIC SUPPORT MEAN7
64-1A
mixed use
phases
affordability
library priority
If64-1A
1. Mixed use
2. Sole use another site
3. Sole use another site - renovate current
Arkins/I understand that ..... 64-IA mixed use, feasibility study simultaneously to do a sole
use on another site clearly with the understanding that renovation of current, if it is
necessary.... as part of that review.... money and timing... library having a priority
of timing I think if you look at those sites.... I think you have the Civic Center site
and the bus station are probably the most viable options... parking .....
Baker/If we are going to talk... makes sense.... set a deadline for us to decide .... If it is a
sole site, sole use on another site, we need to have another discussion about what
the council will support in terms of money and size. I still have a disagreement
about long term plans .....
Atkins/I think we need to do... no more than 30 days. We will go back ..... she will go
back. We will prepare a memo to you outlining what we believe the decision that
you have just made and the direction and we will move as quickly as we can to
entertain whatever type of consulting work we need to have. We are going to
spend some money .....
Kubby/But that is acceptable. We are saying yes to the money.
Council/(Yes).
Arkins/You are not open ended budget but we need to have a policy direction on the
thing and that is what I heard you say.
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Thomberry/Will the Library Board be involved in the financing of the feasibility study?
Arkins/That is sort of up to you because you give them their money .....
Lehman/
Arkins/
Hubbard/Do you want any guidance from the Library Board about which other site?
Craig/We have narrowed it down, Phil, to the comer of Gilbert and College.
Arkins/The bus depot ....
Nov/Chauncey Swan .....If we are going to redo something, let's redo the old bus depot.
Kubby/I thought the Civic Center was also-
Franklin/The bus depot site includes-
Nov/The alley to College Street.
Norton/tt does not include the park .....
Arkins/We will get to that. So the Library Board understands. What we do internally is
we normally form in-house teams. Susan would become a part of the team. She
would be representing your interests when she works with Karin and Chuck.... we
do them as groups... She will then have first hand knowledge and report everything
back to you.
Kubby/Are we saying there is only one site that the sole library use is acceptable7
Arkins/Two, Civic Center and bus station ..... We will answer that.... We will prepare a
confirming memo to you, much sooner than later. It will go out to everybody. I
would like to put it on your respective agendas to make sure you understand ....
Baker/Is it the sole use another site, the only sites under consideration are across Gilbert?
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Atkins/Those two appear to be the preferred. I would like to see some flexibility that if
we are looking around and we see something that feels interesting, we would tell
you.
Norton/Including south of the Holiday Inn.
Arkins/
Kubby/We said d.t. and across Burlington is not d.t.
Baker/That changes the whole dynamic.
Nov/I think we ought to limit this to property currently owned by the city .....
Arkins/Okay.
Nov/
Kubby/
Arkins/Let's do this. Our priority will be publicly owned property with an understanding
that ifa project needs to be fitted in and you have to get some private acquisition,
that will just simply costed out as a component of it.
Kubby/It seems like we have moved very far from the last time we were together and I
think some ofit is going through these kinds of processes help us focus our
conversation ....
Thornberry/Steve .....
Nov/We appreciate your efforts.
Adjourned: 7:30 PM
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