HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-11-04 AgendaSubJ;sct to change a,s finalized by ~he City Clerk. For a final official copy, contact the City Clerk's Office. 356-5040.
AGENDA
CI~ OF I0 ~1 CrrY
CiTY COUNCIL MEETING
November 4, 1996 - 6:30 p.m.
Civic Center
ITEM NO. 1
CALL TO ORDER.
ROLL CALL.
ITEM NO. 2
ITEM NO. 3
CONSIDER A MOTION TO ADJOURN TO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO
DISCUSS THE PURCHASE OF PARTICULAR REAL ESTATE ONLY WHERE
PREMATURE DISCLOSURE COULD BE REASONABLY EXPECTED TO
INCREASE THE PRICE THE GOVERNMENTAL BODY WOULD HAVE TO
PAY FOR THAT PROPERTY. THE MINUTES AND THE TAPE RECORDING
OF A SESSION CLOSED UNDER THIS PARAGRAPH SHALL BE AVAILABLE
FOR PUBLIC EXAMINATION WHEN THE TRANSACTION DISCUSSED IS
COMPLETED; AND TO DISCUSS STRATEGY WITH COUNSEl. IN
MATTERS THAT ARE PRESENTLY IN LITIGATION OR WHERE LITIGATION
IS IMMINENT WHERE ITS DISCLOSURE WOULD BE LIKELY TO PREJUDICE
OR DISADVANTAGE THE POSITION OF THE GOVERNMENTAL BODY IN
MAYOR'S PROCLAMATIONS.
a. National Hospica Month - November 1996.
b. Old Jet Day- November 11, i~6~- ',~--c~_M
ITEM NO. 4
SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS.
a. Outstanding Student Citizen Awards
(1) Lincoln Elementary School
(a) Anna Durkee
-{b) Allisorcr-e4T~sr
(c) Justin Wood
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ITEM NO. 3a. National Hospice Month - November 1996.
Nov/The first proclamation is National Hospice Month. (Reads proclamation).
Dick Corcoran/I am a board member and also a volunteer for Hospice and I just want to
thank the community in general for the tremendous support that we had again this
year for the Hospice Road Race. Thank you.
Nov/Thank you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of November 4, 1996.
FI 10496
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ITEM NO. 4a. Outstanding Student Citizen Awards
(1) Lincoln Elementary School
Anna Durkee
Allison Felder
Justin Wood
Nov/Special Presentations. We have two outstanding student citizens from Lincoln
Elementary School. Allison Felder is not here this evening. We have Anna Durkee
and Justin Wood. We will give Allison her award nexl time. Who wants to read
first? Turn towards the audience. Come closer to this microphone.
Anna Durkee/I think they chose me to be an outstanding student citizen because I help
people with disabilities, I get my work done on time, I am a strong writer. I play
the violin and I am in the orchestra and I help in the school library and a
kindergarten class.
Nov/Very good. We have a citizenship award for Anna Durkee. (Reads award). Okay,
Justin, your turn.
Justin Wood/I was chosen to accept the city council outstanding citizenship award for
Lincoln School because I always try to help people when they need help. I have
been on safety patrol for two years and this year I am a captain. Everyday at 11:15
I take the kindergartens to the bus stop. If they need help with their coats or
backpacks, I am ready to help them. I like to go to school and learn new things. I
volunteer in the classroom whenever my teacher asks, even when sometimes when
she doesn't. Thank you for giving me this award.
Nov/You are welcome. This says the same thing. (Reads award). Congratulations to both
of you.
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meeting of November 4, 1996.
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November 4, 1996 Cit~ of Iowa City Page 2
ITEM NO. 5
CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED OR
AMENDED.
Approval of Official Council Actions of the special meetings of
October 21 and October 28, 1996, and the regular meeting of
October 22, 1996, as published, subject to corrections, as
recommended by the City Clerk.
b. Minutes of Boards and Commissions,
(1) Design Review Committee - September 16, 1996.
(2) Iowa City Historic Preservation Commission - October 8, 1996.
(3) Parks and Recreation Commission - October 9, 1996.
c. Permit Motions and Resolutions as Recommended by the City Clerk.
(1)
Consider a motion approving a Special Class C Liquor License for
Deuan Thai, Inc., dba Deuan Thai Restaurant, 21 Sturgis Comer Dr.
(Renewal)
(2)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Beer Permit for Fareway
Stores, Inc., dba Fareway Stores, Inc., 2530 Westwinds Dr.
(Renewal)
(3) Consider a motion approving a Class E Beer Permit for Highlander.
Inc., dba ExpresStop, 2545 N. Dodge St. (Renewal)
Consider a motion approving a Class E Beer Permit for Devotay, Inc.,
dba Devotay, 117 N. Linn St. (New)
(5) Consider a motion approving a refund of an unused portion of a Class
C Liquor License for Maxie's, Inc., dba Maxie's, 1920 Keokuk St.
d. Setting Public Hearings.
(1)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR
NOVEMBER 19 ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3 OF THE
CITY CODE ENTITLED "FINANCES, TAXATION & FEES,"
CHAPTER 4 ON CITY UTILITIES TO INCREASE THE RATES FOR
FEES AND CHARGES FOR POTABLE WATER USE AND SERVICE,
WASTEWATER TREATMENT WORKS USER CHARGES, AND
SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL.
Comment: This resolution sets a public hearing on a proposed
rate increase or changes for water, wastewater, and solid waste
disposal fees. The hearing will be held in the Civic Center Council
Chambers at 7:00 p.m., November 19, 1996, to permit public
input to be heard regarding proposed rate increases or changes for
water, wastewater, and solid waste disposal fees, The new rates
are scheduled to go into effect for billings on or after
March 1, 1997. The previous rate increase went into effect on
March 1, 1996.
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ITEM NO. 5 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS
PRESENTED OR AMENDED
Nov/Moved by Norton, seconded by Vanderhoef. Any discussion? I have one discussion.
We are having a p.h. in November for an increase in utility rates that is not
happening until March. Why?
Thomberry/There might be a lot of discussion.
Nov/We usually don't do it quite this far ahead of time.
Don Yucuis/Actually we are probably two or three weeks ahead of last year's schedule.
We !ry to get the ordinance adopted and published in the paper by the end of
January so that we have the full month of February- So that it is effective for the
full month of February readings. So we have to have the p.h. and at least three
readings of the ordinance. So we are talking four meetings or more. We have to
start soon.
Nov/I got it. Thank you. Okay. Anyway. (Reads #5d.(1)). This is all part of the Consent
Calendar. I just wanted to be sure that the p.h. was given its due. Any other
discussion of the Consent Calendar? Roll call- (yes).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
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November 4, 1996
City of Iowa City
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e. Resolutions.
(1)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE WORK
FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE LONGFELLOW
AREA STORM AND SANITARY SEWER PROJECT.
Comment: See Engineer's Report.
Correspondence.
(1}
Kirsten H. Frey of Barker, Cruise, Kennedy, Houston & Anderson,
L.L.P. - Eric Shaw memorial.
{2) Douglas Russell, Chair, Historic Preservation Commission
Preservation Plan Implementation, FY97/98.
(3) William and Rita Moeller -§rading ordinance. (City Senior Building
Inspector response memorandum to Council included.)
{4) Mary Murphy and Gregg Geardes - Animal Control Ordinance.
{5) Barbara Stimmel- Highway 965.
{6) Inn Ho Shinn - 600 block South Van Buren. (City Manager response
letter included.)
(7) John & Marge Clancy- traffic signal at Highway 1/Dubuque Road.
(8) Seventeen citizens - bus stop at Boyrum.
(9) Dale Shires- Friendship/Shamrock drainage.
(10) Richard Gibson - River Corridor Trail.
(11) R.J. Strika - downtown concerns.
(12) Sandy Pickup - downtown Iowa City clean-up.
(13) Monday Forum- signage.
Memoranda from the Civil Service Commission submitting certified
lists of applicants for the following positions:
(a) Maintenance Worker, I - Refuse
{b) Maintenance Worke~' I - Streets
(c) Maintenance Worker II - Streets
(d) Maintenance Worker III - Streets
(e) Maintenance Worker III - Landfill
(f) Parking Cashier
November 4, I
City of Iow,~ City
Page 4
(g) Parking Enforcement Attendant
(h) Program Specialist
(15) Center Space Committee - combining CenterSpace Conference
and Cultural Center with additional Iowa City Public Library space
Li .. Jp_reviously distributed),
Applications for Use of City Plaza, "~
(1) Jim McClanahan (Iowa Citizen Action Network) - October 23-25,
1996, for the purpose of registering voters. (approved)
(2) Greg Miller (The University of Iowa Rainforest Action Group)
October 25, 1996, for the purpose of distributing literature and
displaying paper consumption. (approved)
END OF CONSENT CALENDAR.
ITEM NO, 6 PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
ITEM NO, 7
PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
Public hearing on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, Article J,
entitled "Overlay Zones," Section 2, entitled "Planned Development
Housing Overlay Zone (OPDH)," subsection D, entitled "Regulations," to
indicate that parking reductions may be approved for non-residential
uses as part of a Sensitive Areas Overlay rezoning.
Cornmum: At. its October 3 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission by a vote of 6-0 recommended approval of the proposed
amendment. Staff recommended approval in a report dated October 3.
Action:
November 4, 1996
City of Iowa City
Page
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 7, entitled "Land
Subdivisions," Article A, entitled "General Subdivision Provisions,"
Section 4, entitled "Establishment of Control," pertaining to City review
of subdivisions located within two miles of the City's boundaries.
(First consideration)
Comment: At its September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of-0-0, recommended approval of the proposed
amendment to the subdivision regulations. Staff recommended
approval in a report dated September 19.
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article M, entitled "Accessory Uses and Buildings," Section 1, entitled
"Permitted Accessory Uses and Buildings," to allow satellite receiving
devices one meter or less in diameter in any yard or on the roof of any
structure in residential areas. (First consideration)
Comment: At its September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
ordinance. The Commission's recommendation is consistent with the
staff recommendation in the September 1 9 staff memorandum.
Action:
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article I, entitled "Public Zone," Subsection 4, entitled "Special
Exceptions," to allow communications towers as a special exception in
the P, Public zone. (First consideration)
Comment: At its September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
ordinance. Staff recommended approval
September 1 9.
Action= /_,'~~/.~/
in a report dated
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ITEM NO. 7¢. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article M, entitled "Accessory Uses and Buildings," Section 1, entitled "Permitted
Accessory Uses and Buildings," to allow satellite receiving devices one meter or less in
diameter in any yard or on the roof of any structure in residential areas. (First
consideration)
Nov/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion.
Norton/Well people should understand, I think, what we are doing here is moving on an
ordinance that just brings us into compliance with the regulations ofthe
Telecommunications Act of 1996.
Nov/And we are doing three of them.
Norton/There is a set of them here.
Nov/Any other discussion? Roll call- (yes). Okay, first consideration has been approved.
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ITEM NO. 7d. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article I, entitled "Public Zone," Subsection 4, entitled "Special Exceptions," to allow
communications towers as a special exception in the P, Public zone. (First consideration)
Nov/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Norton. Discussion.
Kubby/I am going to support this so that we have some ability to allow communication
towers and through the special exception there is going to be-they will have to
meet certain criteria but with the understanding that we are going to be looking at
maybe more criteria or things that will guide us when we get into leasing
agreement with a teleconm~unications company and hopefully maybe other public
entities like the county or the school board. And maybe the University whether or
not they have to comply with the special exception process could look at these
guidelines in making lease agreements before it gets to the special exception
process. So I am glad that we are doing this so that we can have some control
over these towers as they become more numerous in our community. But I hope
that we can have more specific guidelines and we have directed staff to help us
outline what those guidelines should be.
Nov/Dale, do you know if Coralville is adopting similar ordinances?
Helling/I have no idea.
Nov/We might send them copies just in case they are interested in adopting something
similar.
Kubby/Good idea.
Norton/Again, I think people should understand that there could be up to ten companies
or something like that, each with towers in many different sections of town
because the antenna have to have direct viewing or scanning of every house that is
using that service. So it could lead to what we are thinking of as dish and tower
blight and we are going to do everything we can to head that o~.. This is just one
step.
Nov/Most of this will be caused by increased use of cellular telephones and they are
proliferating. Roll call- (yes). Okay, first consideration has been approved.
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City of iowa City
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Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article B, entitled "Zoning Definitions," to add definitions associated
with wireless communications facilities, including "communications
tower," "communications equipment building," and "communications
station." (First consideration)
Comment: At September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of-6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
amendments. Staff recommended approval in a report dated
September 19.
Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance by changing the
use regulations of approximately 7.12 acres located west of Dubuque
Street and south of the Iowa River, from County RS, Suburban
Residential, to P, Public. {REZ96-0016) (Second consideration)
Comment: At its August 15 meeting,0 th~ Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
rezoning. Staff recommended approval in a report dated August 15.
Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of A Resubdivision
of Lot 2, Westport Plaza, an 11.41 acre, 2-lot commercial subdivision
located south of Ruppert Road. (SUB96-0023)
Comment: At its October 17 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the
preliminary plat. Staff recommended approval in a report dated
October 17.
Action:
#7g page 1
ITEM NO. 78. Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat ofA Resubdivision of
Lot 2, Westport Plaza, an 11.41 acre, 2-lot ~mmercial subdivision located south of
Ruppert Road. (SUB96-0023)
Nov/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Norton. Discussion.
Kubby/Well, I had voted against us revising our CZA to allow this plat to happen but
sine that decision has already been made, I don't have a problem with (can't hear)
the land in terms of ownership so that another ownership can take place. To let
this go forward. So even though I disagregzl with allowing, from my viewpoint, to
have Walmart to dictate our development standards, the group has allowed that to
happen and I don't have a problem with the plat. So I will be supporting it.
Thomberry/This resolution will allow Staples to come into Iowa City and I think it will be
a good addition to the city.
Nov/Anything else? Roll call- (yes). Okay, resolution has been approved.
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Oity of Iow~ City
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Consider a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors
recommending approval of an application to rezone approximately
21.25 acres located in Johnson County on the north side of Highway 1,
approximately one mile west of Sharon Center Road {W62) from AI,
Agricultural, to RS-5, Suburban Residential. (CZ9641)
Comment: At its October 17 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended that Council forward a
letter to the Board of Supervisors recommending approval of the
application to rezone, subject to the property having only one vehicular
access point along Highway 1. The Commission's recommendation is
consistent with the staff recommendation
memorandum dated October 17.
Action:/
i. Consider a letter to the Johnson County
contained in the staff
Board of Supervisors
recommending approval of an application to fezone approximately 8.64
acres located in Johnson County west of Prairie du Chien Road,
approximately ~ mile north of Newport Road, from A1, Agricultural, to
RS-3, Suburban Residential. (CZ9647)
Comment:. At its October 17 .meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended that Council forward a
letter to the Board of Supervisors recommending approval of the
application to rezone. The Commission further recommended that the
applicant incorporate the policies of the Johnson County North Corridor
Development Plan regarding the preservation of open space, wildlife
habitat, and natural areas into the design of the preliminary plat for the
property. The Commission's recommendation is consistent with the
staff recommendation contained in the staff memorandum dated
October 17.
Action;
ITEM NO. 8
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING APPLICATION FOR GRANT
MONIES FROM THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
FOR COMMUNITY ECONOMIC BETTERMENT ACCOUNT (CEBA) FUNDS
TO ASSIST ORAL-B LABORATORIES EXPANSION AND AUTHORIZING
CITY PARTICIPATION IN THE FORM OF A $40,000 FORGIVABLE LOAN.
Comment: Oral-B Laboratories is requesting a forgivable loan under the
State of Iowa Community Economic Betterment Account (CEBA). Under
CEBA, it is appropriate for the city in which the business is located to make
application to the State on behalf of the businesses.
#7i
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ITEM NO. 7i. Consider a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors
recommending approval of an application to fezone approximately 8.64 acres located in
Johnson County west of Prairie du Chien Road, approximately ~A mile north of Newport
Road, from A1, Agricultural, to RS-3, Suburban Residential. (CZ9647)
Nov/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Lehman. Discussion.
Thornberry/There is a member of the Johnson County Board of Supervisors in the
audience and I was wondering if it would be appropriate for him to speak to these
at this time to give an idea of where they stood on these two, both h. and i. No?
Nov/Do you want to? If you are going to say something you are going to have to come to
the microphone. You are not required to say something if you don't want to.
Steve Lacina/We usually wait until we go through the p.h. process before we make any
decisions. So this time I don't think the board really has a position on these and
thank you for your input as far as referring to the North Corridor and the plans
that we will try to apply to that plat. Thanks.
Nov/Thanks.
Thornberry/I would like to thank the County Board of Supervisors for working with us in
the county, city, Fringe Area Agreement and these things, we can work together
on to insure good investment in the land. Thank you.
Nov/That was a very positive comment.
Thornberry/You bet.
Norton/I just want to kind of add to that. This requirement for clustering where we are
going to leave space in outlots and try to get the housing clustered and 80%
clustering and 20% otherwise and I thought, I was commenting earlier in our work
session, it might be flexible sometimes the topography won't let us divide just
right. So I am assuming that will be just the way it goes.
Nov/Okay. Any other discussion? All in favor, please say aye- (ayes). Motion carried.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
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ITEM NO. $ CONSIDER A RESOLLYflON AUTHORIZING APPLICATION FOR
GRANT MONIES FROM THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT FOR COMMUNITY ECONOMIC BETTERMENT ACCOUNT
(CEBA) FUNDS TO ASSIST ORAL-B LABORATORIES EXPANSION AND
AUTHORIZING CITY PARTICIPATION IN THE FORM OF A $40,000
FORGIVABLE LOAN.
Nov/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Thomberry. Discussion.
Kubby/This is really the first application under our new guidelines for private entities
receiving public assistance from the city, including the CEBA grant as well as the
outright forgivable loan from our General Fund and I arn really glad that it is a
good example. That this company is not having any problems falling into our
guidelines and it was really helpful that staff kind of outlined all of our guidelines in
terms of wage rates, solid waste issues, meeting the spirit ofthe law for labor and
safety standards and other criteria in terms of benefits that are important to the city
when we are giving assistance to businesses and I am very glad that it was Oral B
who was our first test case. That it seems like the guidelines are met very well and
one of the things that I think are really important to do that we just don't get
information t~om the company to compare what they say to the guidelines but also
get some outside sources like looking at OSHA standards. One of the suggestions
I made to our staff specifically for Oral B or another company that is represented
by a union, is to talk to the union representative to look at what kind of
relationship is there with the workrome and management and in this case, it was a
very positive relationship where there are very few grievances and very few that go
to a high level of contention between the union and the manager. So, I am real
happy that the system seems to be working so far in this first case and we will be
giving a yea vote on this particular item.
Nov/Actually Oral B is one of our best industrial citizens. When we talked about setting
up guidelines like this, we were thinking about this kind of corporation. So, they
fit.
Thomberry/I would like to second that as far as Oral B being a very very good solid
citizen for the City of Iowa City and thank them for considering expansion in the
Iowa City area.
Norton/Yes. I want to second that and wish the system well in getting the grant from the
state now. That is not-that bird isn't quite in the hand yet, is it?
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#8 page 2
Nov/No. It is actually the city that sends the application to the state.
Norton/It looks like a strong application.
Lehman/You know, this represents a $29 million investment in Iowa City and I think that
is fantastic. $40,000 that we are talking about and the tax savings over five years
are absolutely minuscule when you look at the total project. 55 new jobs, $29
million. You know, I think this is, more th~n anything else, this isn't financial
assistance. This is telling them that we are glad you are here and we are glad you
find Iowa City a good place to do business.
Nov/;rhat is about what we are saying. Any other discussion?
Kubby/I guess the other advantage to this application for me is that it is not done in a way
where the city needs extended boundaries, extended streets, water facilities or
sewer facilities. That it is kind olinfill development which is sometiring that our
Comp Plan indicates is a very positive thing and that is another reason that this
application is very attractive.
Nov/Roll call- (yes). Resolution has been adopted.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
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November 4, 1990
City of Iowa City
Page 8
ITEM NO. 9
'?6- -5oq
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION OF
TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTION EASEMENTS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION
OF THE MELROSE AVENUE RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT, PHASE II.
Comment The Melrose Avenue Reconstruction Project, Phase II, involves the
removal and replacement of existing Melrose Avenue pavement between
Hawkins Drive and Byington Road along with the removal and replacement of
sidewalk and the installation of water main. The City of Iowa City must acquire
temporary construction easements to facilitate the construction of the project.
This resolution authorizes City Staff to negotiate and the Mayor to sign these
documents, including authorization of condemnation if necessary. Every effort
will be made to negotiate acceptable agreements without resorting to
condemnation. Prior to proceeding with condemnation, staff will notify Council.
Action: ~._~-~.~//7~~
ITEM NO. 10
ITEM NO. 11
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DECLARING AN OFFICIAL INTENT UNDER
TREASURY REGULATION 1.150-2 TO ISSUE DEBT TO REIMBURSE THE
CITY FOR CERTAIN ORIGINAL EXPENDITURES PAID IN CONNECTION
WITH THE MELROSE AVENUE BRIDGE REPLACEMENT PROJECT.
Comment: This resolution declares official intent under Treasury Regulation
1.150-2 that the City of Iowa City will issue debt to reimburse itself for
expenditures paid out in connection with the replacement of the Melrose
Avenue Bridge. The estimated FY96 cost of this project is $2,252,225.
Funding is as follows: up to $1,000,000 from a yet to be issued general
obligation bond issue, 8850,000 from a federal grant and $402,225 from
Road Use Tax Funds. The $1,000,000 will be advanced from the Landfill
Replacement Reserve Fund.
Ac,ion:
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION RATIFYING SETTLEMENT OF PENDING
LITIGATION.
Comment: On May 21, 1996, the City filed a Notice of Appeal with the
Johnson County District Court appealing the amount of a condemnation
award to Diane Dreusicke Riley in conjunction with the Wastewater
Treatment Connection Project. The City Attorney has negotiated
settlement of this matter, This resolution ratifies settlement of the
litigation as required by Chapter 21, Code of Iowa. The City Attorney
recommends adoption.
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ITEM NO. 10 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DECLARING A~N OFFICIAL ]N'TENT
UNI)EP` TREASURY REGULATION 1.150-2 TO ISSUE DEBT TO REIMBURSE
THE CITY FOP, CERTAIN OKIGINAL EXPENDITU~S PAID IN CONNECTION
WITH THE MELP, OSE AVENUE BRIDGE REPLACEMENT PROJECT.
Nov/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion.
Kubby/I had tried to get a hold of the City Engineer today and he left me a message but I
still wasn't quite clear. I thought that the Bridge Replacement Fund of the federal
moneys was like a 80/20 split.
Atkin~/Up to $850,000. IT is 80/20-
Kubby/Oh, there is a catch, a ceiling.
Nov/That is it? Roll calln (yes). Resolution has been adopted.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of November 4, 1996.
F110496
November 4, 1996
City of Iowa City
Pa~e 9
ITEM NO. 12 CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS.
ITEM NO. 13
a. Consider a recommendation from The University of Iowa that Larry
Wilson be reappointed to the Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission
as a representative of The University of Iowa for a three-year term
ending December 1, 1999.
ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES,
a. Previously Announced Vacancies.
(1}
Board of Adjustment - One vacancy to fill a five-year term ending
January 1, 2002. {Term expires for Tim Lehman.)
(2 males and 2 females currently serve on this commission.)
(2)
Board of Appeals - One vacancy to fill a five-year term ending
December 31, 2001. (Term expires for Thomas Werderitsch.)
(5 males and 1 female currently serve on this commission.)
{3)
Human Rights Commission - Three vacancies to fill three-year
terms ending January 1, 2000. (Terms expire for Osha Gray
Davidson, Alison Ames Galstad, and Andre Peery.) (1 male and
5 females currently serve on this commission.)
(4)
Parks and Recreation Commission - Two vacancies to fill four-year
terms ending January 1, 2001, and one vacancy to fill an
unexpired term ending January 1, 1998. (Terms expire for Debora
Liddell and Matthew Pacha. Jana Egeland resigned.) (5 males
and 1 female currently serve on this commission.)
(5)
Planning and Zoning - One vacancy to fill an unexpired term
ending May 1, 1998. (Tom Scott resigned.) (3 males and 3
females currently serve on this commission.) Previously
announced incorrectly as one vacancy to fill a five-month,
unexpired term in additioi3 to a five-year term.
(6)
Senior Center Commission - Two vacancies to fill three-year terms
ending December 31, 1999. (Terms expire for Frieda Shannon
and Terri Miller.) (4 males and 2 females currently serve on this
commission.)
These appointments will be made at the December 3, 1996,
meeting of the City Council.
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ITEM NO. 12 CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS
Nov/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Lehman. Discussion.
Vanderho~ff I just like to say that I really appreciate Larry's work for the last how many
years that he has done this and what a good representative. He is a citizen for Iowa
City and for the University.
Nov/Yes, he has done a good job. Any other discussion? Okay, all in favor, please say
aye- (ayes). Motion carried
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ITEM NO. 14 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Page 10
ITEM NO. 15
REPORT ON ITEMS FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND CITY ATTORNEY.
a. City Manager.
b. City Attorney.
ITEM NO. 16 COUNCIL DISCUSSION OF POLICE CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD.
...... ~,~.. Comment: At the October 22 Council formal meeting, Council Members
requested an item to further discuss Police Citizens' Review Board be
placed on this agenda. Based on previous Council discussion, the City
Manager prepared a proposal dated October 21, 1996.
Action: ~ /~
ITEM NO. 17
ADJOURNMENT.
'
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ITEM NO. 14 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION
Nov/City Council Information. Norton, do you want to start?
Norton/I will. I will reduce my list of 12. You may comment on this one, too. I just want
to mention that we went and spent Thursday afternoon last week at the forum
sponsored by the DTA on retailing and the implications of the Coral Ridge Mall
and so forth and it was extremely informative to everyone who was there and it
does suggest some serious to look at and reminds us that we are fortunate to have
a year or so to try to get organized and we need some serious attractions d.t., both
public and private source.
Nov/Excellent summary.
Norton/Another one I wanted to mention. There is a job opening in this University
project, community project coordinator, that we got a note froln Phil Jones about
and I wanted to bring it to people's attention. To coordinate this project on dealing
with high risk drinking behavior in the community and the University and it looks
like an excellent job for a well trained person.
Nov/Dale, do we have applications for that?
Helling/The University is taking applications.
Nov/But they are sending copies.
Helling/They have asked, yes, that we help them in screening but my understanding is
they are still receiving applications as well.
Nov/They are still receiving them?
Helling/Yes.
Nov/Okay. I thought that they had finished. They told me they had 20 applicants at one
point.
Helling/No, I think they are still receiving them.
Nov/Okay.
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Norton/There were a couple of questions l want to raise and staff can deal with these
later. I was walking up Jefferson Street recently. Jefferson from Madison up to the
Pappajohn Building still looks pretty dark to me and I hope somebody is taking a
serious look at the lighting there. Heavy pedestrian traffic and it really is kind of a
dangerous situation.
Nov/On University property?
Atkins/I am not sure yet. Dee brought the matter to my attention. I drove it one evening
and he is right. It is dark and I have asked Chuck to find out just what can we do
whether it is the University or whether it is the city.
Nov/Call Larry Wilson. He is working on a University lighting project wherever it looks
dark on University property.
Norton/Well, tiffs is a city street, of course, as well.
Norton/I wanted to congratulate the Monday Foram on their moves on, we got a note in
our packet. I may have stolen this item from somebody else to bring it up. But they
have some success in getting some signage to identify d.t. on the interstate signs
and now they are moving onto the signs in town and I think that they're to be
congratulated for their continuing efforts in that.
Nov/While we are on those signs, I would like to see them before they start putting them
up.
Norton/Yeah, I hope we get a chance to look.
Nov/They say they like them. We don't know that we like them.
Norton/These are signs for in town, now, for direction.
Nov/I think it is up to us to decide if we like them, not just the Monday Forum.
Arkins/We are going to fabricate about a halfa dozen of them.
Norton/They will have to have seven colors, one for each of us. I will stop while I am
ahead.
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Kubby/R~uest from knowing what our plans are about that. Their concern is they want
these signs to be up before the holiday shopping.
Nov/Still I am not delegating the appearance of those signs. I think we have to see them.
Arkins/I hear you. I will bring them next meeting.
Thomberry/Speaking of directional signs for Iowa City, Steve. Has [DOT b~en contacted
about signs on the Interstate directing people to d.t.? What has [DOT Said.
Norton/That is the one that he says have got permission to put-
Atkins/The Monday Forum has spoken with them through Joe and at least what I
understand initially is that IDOT's going to be going along with some of this.
Norton/Two signs.
Thomberry/Now, will we have to incorporate what the University has on the signs on the
Interstate?
Atkins/Sir, I don't know.
Norton/I don't know the detail. I just know that they were successful in getting d.t. put
on the signs.
Arkins/D.t. directional statement of some sort is to be installed on those signs.
Kubby/We just need to make sure our language on our signs is consistent so that they are
helpful directional signs.
Thomben'y/I thought there was a four line maximum that the state required in-
Kubby/Well, they worked it out.
Norton/Well, we only want speed readers in here anyhow.
Arkins/I think you are right about the four lines. I just don't know for sure.
Nov/They say they worked it out. Whatever Joe told the DOT, they agreed.
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Thomberry/Painting it on a barn or whatever.
Nov/Whatever.
Vanderhoef/And the money for these signs came fi'om our parking and traffic budget?
Arkins/Yeah, those will be fabricated by our own employees. We buy the sheet metal and
we cut them out. We fabricate those ourselves. I can give you a cost per sign. We
intended to do that. It is just easier for us to do it ourselves.
Thornberry/They don't do those at the penitentiary, huh?
Atkins/I don't know if they make signs there anymore.
Thomberry/License plates. Let them diversify.
Nov/Come on.
Norton/Go ahead. Well, I am not done but I am stopping.
Kubby/I have a couple of things that I was going to bring up at our informal meeting. One
of them is there was a handwritten letter in our packet from someone and there as
some pictures about a berm around a pond that does not follow our grading
ordinance and they are asking to be an exception and I have spoken quite a but
with this person's engineer and his contractor and the city and it is against the law
what is out there and I promised I would bring this up but I personally would not
recommend that we exeeptionalize this. Too steep for our grading ordinance to
accept and it would not be approved by this person's engineer as being stable at
the slope that it is.
Thomberry/Their engineer?
Norton/The guy fi'om Landmark? I went out there today and looked at it. It is pretty
unusual situation. Let me put it mildly. It is very- I think you ought to take a look
at it. It is very unusual. I am sure it may be in violation, too. It is kind of a large
issue, I think. It is going to take some looking at how to proceed. I kind of agree
with you, Karen, it is certainly in violation. More things may be underway, too.
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Kubby/So, I mean, at this point they are getting a letter. I mean, they have received a
letter saying that this is a problem. That they should rectify it or they will be in
violation.
Nov/Well, what really disturbed me about this is that they had somebody who understood
grading. They had an engineer. He came up with a plan and then they just didn't
follow it. So it is not as if they just went ahead and did something and then found
out it wasn't right. It wasn't right from beginning. So I don't have a lot of
sympathy.
Kubby/And I know this person- They planted 300 bushes and trees around the pond and
tried to create a wildlife habitat. And so I really enjoy their intent. I appreciate that
and I was trying to figure out- I want them to be in compliance with the law and I
am not going to say you can be an exception because then when I want to build a
five foot berm around my house to protect me from flood waters from HyVee, I
am going to be in violation and will you exceptionalize me? That is not right. And
what I did suggest to him is could the city be a party of once it gets rectified to
help with replanting in terms of organizing people. The Panhellenic Council who
are always looking for a public service project or other kind of service clubs who
would be interested in helping to replant the bushes when they are in compliance
on this grade.
Thomberry/I haven't seen it. But could they put more dirt around that to bring the slope
down more gradually. I haven't seen it.
Kubby/There are pictures in your packet.
Thomberry/Yeah, I have seen the pictures.
Nov/The pictures look like it is possible, but I don't know.
Norton/The answer is no on the inside. I think this is one that is going to take some
serious, I think- Well, I don't want to quite call it negotiation but conciliation or
something. It is a very difficult situation. I think when you get into to it you will
find it is going to be pretty tough just to mandate the money that has been invested
and it hard to see where the project is going or just how you would moderate it. It
is-
Thomberry/What will they have to do then, just tear it down.
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Norton/I would guess pretty much. I don't quite see how you could do it. It is a very
steep slope right down into the pond.
Thomberry/Can't he re-grade the outside so it is not so steep?
Norton/Both sides are steep. The outside is less steep than the inside. The berm varies in
height.
Thomberry/Doesn't the inside hold the water?
Norton/ No, the berm is above the line. There is rip rap. There is a pond, then there is rip
rap and then there is a herin.
Thomberry/I saw the pictures. It just seems to be that they could kind of make it more
gentle. But they can't? I mean I will have to go out and see it.
Norton/You almost have to.
Kubby/They had requested that this be brought to council's attention. They sent it to me.
I forwarded it to us. And unless we give staff other direction, the letter saying you
are not in compliance with the law will be-
Norton/That is going to put these people in a very difficult-
Kubby/I mean, in a certain way, they created the problem and as much as their intent was
positive, they did not follow the grading plan upon which the permit was granted.
They had some indication of this before they continued the work There was not
good communication on the part of the person with the permit and there is
consequence to pay. If there is some way to mitigate this with less expense to
make them in compliance with the code, I think that would be a great resolution.
Norton/That is what I am looking for.
Kubby/If our staff- If their engineer can figure out a way to have that happen with our
staff approval. I don't think we should be investing that money.
Vanderhoef/I am glad you said that. It is clear that they have paid money to an engineer
who did a good plan and they chose not to comply with the plan. So I think the
city is not responsible for any of this.
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Nov/That is what I have said.
Norton/Have we said anything different to staff at this point?
Vanderhoff] No.
Norton/Okay.
Kubby/I wanted to bring up this memo that was in the back of the packet from myself to
JCCOG because I had requested that JCCOG members take back to their
respective bodies two issues about 965 Extension. One being the idea that this new
road on the west side has a potential to be a beautiful scenic road and how can we
write our contracts to make sure that that happens. Secondly, is it possible to think
about having kind of a Hickory Hill West, the same kind of natural larger wooded
folly polly area for the west side, maybe in conjunction with Camp Cardinal on the
west side. And ask at the next JCCOG meeting, December 4, that people talk
about this issue to bring back feedback and we have two informal meetings
between now and December 4, I think. Is that true, Steve? The 18th and the 2nd.
Atkins/18th and the 2nd.
Kubby/Can we schedule this item for short discussion on one of those meetings.
Vanderhoef/Would you want- The land that you are thinking of is out in the county,
right?
Nov/But potentially in the city.
Vanderhoef/Potentially in the city. So if you really want a discussion about, I would
suggest that we send a letter to Parks and Recreation for a run through.
Norton/Thinking about it.
Kubby/Can we do that so they- I don't know when their next meeting is that they could
discuss it before we meet at an informal.
Karr/Thek next meeting might be with you. Their next meeting might be with council.
Kubby/Maybe we could-
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Nov/You could bring it up then.
Vanderhoef/Put it on the agenda.
Kubby/Great.
Nov/But you could also ask that this commission consider that area. Then they can
consider it at a future time. We can ask at that time.
Kubby/Great. That is a 8cod idea, Dee. We had a memo fi-om our City Clerk about
Outdoor Service Areas and we talked about it today. I don't know if you want to
wait until the next informal or not to talk about these issues.
Nov/Any speci/]cs that you want to mention?
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-132 SIDE 2
Kubby/I don't know. I don't know what the pros and cons of reducing the fence height is.
So I don't know ifl have specific feedback or not. I guess I wanted the
opportunity to talk about it.
Karr/That should be coupled with, again, the distinction between not only reducing the
fencing height but elimination of the screening So, those are two different issues.
Nov/What kind of screening do we have now?
Karr/Right now the ordinance calls for, of Outdoor Service Areas, complete screening
which is a privacy fence, more or less, of five to eight feet high.
Nov/Okay, so if they reduced to three feet, it is not much at all.
Karr/In the CB-10 zone as a minimum.
Nov/I would really like a four foot minimum.
Kubby/And what is the difference in foot for you?
Nov/Because a three foot fence can be stepped over. It would be very easy for most to
step over it.
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Karr/A good example would be Bustmell's Turtle would not be four foot.
Nov/What is that one now?
Karr/It is a little under four. It is three and a half.
Nov/Three and a half. Well, I don't want to design this to fit Bushnell's Turtle.
Karr/ No, I used that as an example only.
Nov/I think a four foot-
Karr/As a minimum?
Nov/Minimum.
Karr/I would be happy to take that back to the committee.
Vanderhoef/Is it possible to use any other kind of screening besides fences?
Karr/Screening or fences? Those are two difference issues.
Vanderhoe~ Well, and could one substitute for the other?
Karr/On private property right now we have a requirement for fencing because of the
additional requirement for fire exits and things like that. So, are you talking like
hedges or natural screening? I would have to research that. I can see that
potentially on some sides. I can't see that on all of the sides. Just because of the-
Nov/Because it is too easy to walk through it.
Karr/But I certainly could take that back.
Norton/Marian, did you have representatives from outdoor service areas outside the CB-
107
Karr/Yes. And what was interesting about- All of them concurred. We did not have them
outside the CB-10. I correct myself. We had representatives from outdoor services
areas not outside the CB-10. We had other businesses outside and everyone
concurred with the need for a fence though. They did want a fence.
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Norton/What did you mean by permanent fencing and I didn't quite understand that.
Permanent fence can be removed without- It is less than permanent.
Karr/But right now we have a fencing requirement that is some of it can be removed very
easily at night. Okay. It is not up there on the permanent nature for the season.
And what we are looking at right now is potentially at drilling holes in the
sidewalk, putting in sleeves and a cap that you could drop, for instance, a rod iron
fence into.
Nov/But it is removable fencing only for the sidewalk care and if it is an outdoor service
area, that is permanent.
Karr/Yes, it is. The difference between private property and public, yes.
Kubby/I mean one of the other things was that if we allowed this seasonal permanent
fencing on the cafes, that we then might be allowing them to stack their furniture
or leave their furniture within those boundaries overnight so they don't have to
haul it back and forth every night.
Norton/ Is that what you mean by that statement?
Karr/Yes, securing it overnight, that is exactly right. And it must be secured, not just left.
It must be stacked and some how attached or configured in such a way so that it
does not suddenly disappear down the street or show up some place where it
shouldn't and we have some examples where the stackable chairs can be stacked,
put up against the building and then chained the building or locked up, literally,
yes.
Vanderhoeff And what would this do as a safety issue for fire and-
Karr/Again, it cannot block and entrance or exit. As far as the furniture, Dee?
Vanderhoet7 1 am thinking nighttime and-
Karr/The permanent fence? The permanent fence again would not- It should be in an area
that obviously is well lit and should not- It would be in the central business district
would-be the only way we are allowing.
Kubby/But it wouldn't be a solid fence.
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Karr/No.
Vanderhoe~ I understand that. I am just thinking of flow of people and so forth at night
and fire and what have you.
Karr/It was not viewed by the committee as a safety issue and the Fire Chief is on the
commitlee as well as the police.
Vanderhoe~' Okay.
Thomberry/Subsection B. of this discussion. Dee, have you been on North Dodge to see
the screening, the trees at the Da'try?
Norton/Yes, very nice.
Thomberry/You approve7
Norton/I think that is great. I meant they could double their size overnight but other wise-
Thomberry/Well, go feed them some super-grow or whatever.
Norton/No, it was very lovely.
Thomberry/Keep your dog away fi'om it, will you7
Karr/Was there any issues that council wanted addressed that haven't been addressed.
That was another key component of the memo. Is there something you would like
explored by the committee prior to the reconunendations that hasn't been
addressed in the memo.
Kubby/I think keeping the eight foot walkway is important.
Karr/There was no doubt the committee- I did not sense any movement by any members
of the committee to reduce that.
Kubby/Even though it was cited as the biggest obstacle for (can't hear). It made me want
to re-think it for a minute. But then I thought especially in the CB- 10 zone, there is
so much foot traffic.
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Karr/We did the same thing.
Kubby/That we really need space for that to happen.
Nov/And there is wheelchair traffic also and they really need that eight foot. Them is no
question.
Karr/Strollers.
Norton/Did you get a request for any raised platforms on which the care might be
located? Permanent raised platforms. I understand that some people that it is a
little grizzly to serve down in the dirt of the sidewalk. They want to have a
permanent raised platform on which to present their care.
Karr/Today I received a phone call from an interested party but not prior to the
committee deliberations and I will take that information-
Norton/But maybe they will think about that.
Kubby/ Do you know what they can do? Sweep.
Norton/It is not that either. It is still kind of sitting in the street in a way. Well, I can see
some virtues of being elevated slightly.
Karr/Again, I think that fact will certainly be removed by the committee but will come
back to council because, again, sidewalk cafes is viewed as a temporary use of the
public r.o.w.
Norton/Concrete wouldn't hardly be a-
Karr/It doesn't seem real temporary to me but again, it depends on the uses and the
intention ofcoancil to encourage it.
Norton/We are trying to say yes every chance we get, you know.
Nov/They still have to remove all the funfitum and the fencing when the season is
finished.
Karr/That is correct.
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Nov/And they can't very well remove the platform.
Norton/Well, there may be a way.
Karr/We have a request today also for an individual who would like to elevate it and have
permanent fencing and not remove it for the season.
Norton/And I just saw one of my- on my trip I just saw a elevated platform that was
removable.
Thomberry/Which trip was this, Dee?
Norton/I am not going to bring this up. You excuse me of spending city money.
Thomberry/That wasn't me.
Norton/But I think there is possibilities there.
Karr/We certainly will look at it. I was not aware of any requests until today.
Nov/Well, I am concerned about that because we have already requested a barrier for
someone who can't see who is walking with a cane and-
Karr/An elevated cement would be a barrier.
Nov/Yeah but eight foot worth of barrier that is permanent. That is too much.
Kubby/Accessibility issue.
Norton/There is a ramp.
Nov/No, no.
Norton/Think about it.
Nov/Karen, did you have anything else?
Kubby/Yeah, I do. I have quite a few more things. 1 will try to be quick. We had talked
before and Dee Norton has really been pushing us on this and I appreciate it in
reviewing the different programs where we have low income policies and try to
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make them as consistent as possible. And one of the thoughts that I had was that
we don't seem to have time to really deal with tNs and we have a citizens
commission who deals with a lot of programs and agencies and households of
lower income and so I was thinking why not refer this to HCDC, to the- I can
never remember. Housing and Community Development Commission. Because its
guidelines, they might be able to help us suggest some ways we can consolidate
some of them so we have fewer numbers of qualified levels and they are-
Nov/I would like to continue working on this with Jean Mann and come up with a
proposal before we send it to them, HCDC or anyone else. And I just haven't done
it.
Norton/We are looking for a Christmas git~, Naomi.
Kubby/So does that mean you and .lean are kind of the subcommittee who are-
Nov/Jean and Linda Severson and I have thought of this.
Kubby/Oh, I didn't realize that it has been an ongoing work.
Nov/Well, we haven't made much progress but I have already involved these people I
would like to continue that involvement.
Kubby/I just want to make sure this moves forward and we seemingly weren't doing it.
Nov/I will try and move forward.
Kubby/I think you would make good recommendations. Although if we do ask them to
do it, let'~ not ask them to do it at the same time as their block grant applications.
That would be really hard for them to do.
We had a proclamation earlier about Old Jet that wasn't read because Naomi is
going to present it at Vet's Day.
Nov/That is a banquet, Veteran's Day Banquet.
Kubby/And we got an e-mall from a former Iowa Citian who got into a lot of trouble in
protesting Old Jet by re-painting is and I actually liked some of his suggestions that
in terms of Old Jet being a war memorial that we also work on the Peace
Memorials in our city. ! know we have the Peace Pole d.t. that we are working at
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trying to get rehabbed. Some of the writing on it has been damaged and weathered
and that we need some rehabbed and so that is something that we are working on
and I know that there are people in the community looking at non-violent, non-
abusive toys for holiday season and what else can the city do to facilitate not only
remembering war memorials but also peace memorials which is also a very good
remembrance to our veterans as well as the war memorials. So I appreciated the
correspondence by somebody who use to live here who still cares about Iowa City.
There are a lot of those out there.
And lastly I wanted to make a very quick comment about a newspaper article that
was in the Press Citizen and also a letter that we received officially from the Shaw
fanlily, one of the Shaw family's attorneys about their request to have control over
the name and likeness of their son Eric and that they are just not ready to do some
memofialization of Eric yet and they are requesting the community hold off until
they are ready and some people, some artists approached me about wanting to do
somethings and I contacted the Shaws to see how they were feeling about it and if
they wanted to make contact with these people and what the Shaws have
requested that people do if they have energy to help with memorialization of Eric
in the future or ideas, to please write them a letter outlining their ideas. To
remember that there is a memorial fund at Iowa State Bank if you want to send
money there. And that they would like your name, address and phone number so
that when they are ready to do something, they can contact people who are
interested in helping in providing some energy. So I guess what I am doing is
letting people know that if you want to help, write a letter to the Shaw's indicating
what your ideas are and contact information for them at a later date. And that is all
I have tonight.
Lehman/Two things. Do we have the numbers yet ou the Transit revenues since the rates
went up?
Arkins/We should have that in a few days. At the end of 0ctober.
Lehman/And ridership.
Arkins/Yeah, I will check on those. We were to have those at the end of the month.
Lehman/Okay. Two weeks ago we decided to sent to P/Z a proposal to enable the
construction of elderly housing under the Eldercare Ordinance that we passed.
These units could have kitchens put in them. My understanding that this is
supported pretty much by the staff. Staff, I think now, would like to see us do a
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comp!etely different ordinance coveting only smaller units. We are not talking
about nursing homes and or retirement homes. But smaller units where people
could buy condos or whatever. I would like to see that prioritized on P/Z lists so
that if we can put something together, something could be ready by spring.
Vanderhoef/I would appreciate that also having had some opportunity to look at elderly
housing in this city and what was available for my own parents. We may have a
gap in what is available for senior citizens and 1 would appreciate this moving
forward and-
Lehman/I think there is a huge gap and I think the market in this community is going to
get bigger and bigger and bigger and we have care facilities and we have expensive
retirement homes. We don't seem to have anything in between. And this would
enable-
Norton/Is this related to Longfellow Manor?
Lehman/Yeah but I think it should cover the entire city.
Norton/I understand but the general principle.
Nov/We started out saying this was going to be housing for the elderly and it was going
to be a rooming house style not individual little apartments. And it was planned to
be as part of normal residential living. You have an old residence, you convert it
and you have elderly housing. It was never meant to be eight apartments in among
all the s.f. houses. The new construction that they are doing and proposing does
not really belong in a s.f. zone.
Norton/The density is still the same, RS-8?
Nov/Well, no, not if they are going to build kitchens.
Norton/Well, it depends on what you call a kitchen. I guess that is what it is coming down
to.
Nov/Well, once you have put in a stove, it is a kitchen.
Kubby/What has been suggested is that we ask P/Z to prioritize-
Norton/To consider a new option.
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Kubby/When I look at the issues of affordable housing being very high on our goal setting
list and the housing forum just happening. That it has been a couple of years since
that has been on our work program to work on this year. When I think about the
library and mixed use on 64-1A that we just directed Planning to do. That even
though I am hearing from the community that there is a gap and that that gap is
going to get bigger unless we talk about this, I am not ready to say tonight that I
want to shift this to the top of three issues on Planning agenda. I want to maybe
review what is there, how are they doing on the other things that are really
important to the community that there are gaps in and to compare it before I
would feel comfortable saying yes, this is a priority. I need that comparison for me
to make that decision.
Norton/Well, I just wasn't sure where things were. What had been said to staff already or
how much work has already been done on this matter.
Lehman/None.
Nov/It went to P/Z. P/Z said kitchens are not appropriate in this instance and then it came
tO us.
Norton/I don't see even what has come to us. What form has to come to us?
Nov/It came to us via a letter from the developer.
Norton/Well, I saw the letter, yeah.
Nov/And we sent it back to P/Z. That is as far as we went with it.
Vanderhoef/So we didn't give any direction to P/Z or to staff to look at what we were
seeing as this gap in there and whether this particular development falls into this
area of not. That is not the point. The point that I am making is that we have a
place in our community where our senior citizens are not being given some
advantages and when you speak of housing, Karen, one of the things that truly
does happen for some ofour elderly is that they do stay in a s.f. homes because
they can't find that alternative home and that is the same home that could be a
home for a family of four if they can get the kind of housing that would be real
appropriate and what they seem to be asking for.
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Kubby/At the Housing Foram, elderly housing was definitely a topic of conversation. So
maybe it is one of the things that are already the work program that are related to
this.
Vanderhoeff I think there would be a huge ripple affect in there if we can bring in this kind
of some sort of an ordinance that would allow these alternatives to seniors.
Norton/It doesn't seem to me all that complicated. How much work would it be for them
to hammer out whether this kind of a package could- Kind of like what you would
find in a motel room, I assume, would pass as a kitchenette. Something like that, a
fixed unit or something like that would seem to me the feature they are looking for
and how complicated would it be for them to consider whether this would create
untoward problems if you might restrict it strictly to seniors.
Vanderhoeff I would like to at least discuss it with Planning Department and see what is
happening there and what they would go forward with if they have some other
ideas of whether they want to make this an ordinance that has some sort ofcondo-
ing or possibility for purchasing individual units into a building or just what they
have in mind because I haven't had that-
Norton/Could we ask them to tell us what it would cost? What would get shoved down in
the priority list if they tend to this?
Nov/Karin says she is coming back with a priority list soon.
Norton/Then we could find out.
Kubby/The other question is if you allow this, how do you prevent it from becoming non-
elderly housing?
Vanderhoef/That can be done.
Kubby/The people can enforce.
Norton/That would have to be built in, yeah.
Thornberry/We have got these places now on the west side, just for seniors.
Nov/I have no problems saying this is for elderly. I do have a problem saying that it
belongs in a s.f. residential zone. A zoning question-
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Norton/But if it doesn't create more traffic and so forth. It is fairly complicated but
seemingly we ought to be able to figure out a way to fit it in there.
Kubby/So we are saying that we are waiting-
Nov/Put it in a RM zone and then no problem.
Thomberry/Well, if the building, ifthe structure could house apartments without kitchens,
you would have just as high as density as you would with kitchens, probably
higher. At least more traffic.
Nov/They are not talking about apartments, though. The original concept of elderly
houshag, we were talking about people who lived in rooms and there was a central
kitchen and a central dining room and a central living room and everybody else had
a bedroom or maybe a sitting room. It is not the same thing.
Norton/This one will have both. Have a central kitchen as well as private.
Baker/I thought that Ernie's suggestion was that we ask that the issue be re-prioritized at
the Conunission level and I t}fink there are four people who would like to see that.
Now staff and Commission may say we have objections to that. So-
Nov/All right, does it sound like four people are really interested in doing this?
Thornberry/Yes.
Nov/Okay. Moving on.
Thomben3,/It is interesting. The two things that I was going to bring up, Ernie brought
one up and Karen brought one up. Aa~d regarding what Karen spoke about, the
letter from the law firm regarding the Shaw's request is very short. It was sent to
the City of Iowa City, the city council, Johnson County Supervisors and the
University of Iowa's President's Office. And it is very short and I would like to
read it because I have also have had requests ofthis nature. (Reads letter). That is
all I have to say. Thank you.
Vanderhoef/I just have a couple of things. The first one is that I want to compliment the
staff on coming up with the idea of the drop boxes for our utility bills and water
and wastewater and our public partnership with MidAmerica that you can drop
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that bill off also without ever coming into the city and you can also pay your traffic
tickets by dropping them in a box. You don't have to look for a parking place.
Kubby/Dee, do you know if you have to put a stamp on MidAmerica bills?
Vanderhoef/No. It would be like the grocery store drop off.
Nov/Our Treasury Department does accept that regularly anyway, don't they?
Atkins/As far as I know.
Nov/Yeah, so it is the same system.
Vanderhoef/So I think that is a great offer to all of the citizens The other thing is I would
be interested in an update on the Census. Anyone can-
Arkins/Funny you should ask.
Kubby/Is he going to complain or whine?
Arkins/I am going to complain and whine. Marian is going to take the-She is the lead
complainer and whiner in this whole issue. But it is a badge she wears with pride.
If you don't mind, may I introduce the issue. The other day, when the stories were
printed, the information we had received from the Census Bureau, Marian is taking
the administrative leadership in this whole process, really only involved two
numbers, population, a nose count and the number of housing units. That is all
they had. Well, staff met, Marian's guidance, there just seemed to be something
wrong and through Marian's persistence, we were able to secure something called
the enumerator districts and these are the actual boundaries &where they make
the counts. Marian was also able to secure for us a comparison of the district in
1990 and a comparison of the district today with the housing count. We put our
real efforts to the housing count because it seems to be the thing we have the
greatest contention about. I am going to have Marian explain to you all of the
work that she has done with the Census Bureau folks but I would like to show you
something that I think gives you sort of a feel for where we are. We will try you
pick this up on camera.
Kubby/Dale, can you move that microphone a little bit?
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Atkim/We have the zoning map and the boundaries in red represent one, maybe two or
three combined enumerator districts. These districts represent, from the
information we received from the Census Bureau, a decline in the number of
housing units in that enumerator district. Just as an ex~Jnple, we will take
Grantwood and I think it is combined with I don't know how many. According to
the Bureau of the Census, there are 177 fewer housing units in that area than in
1990.
Kubby/We just built 33.
Atkins/It gets better. One of the other districts, if you don't mind, Karen, it is your
neighborhood and I will explain to you in a minute. In the general area where you
live, there are 146 fewer units in that area. There is two maybe three enumerator
districts. We know of one for sure, Townrarest, we could count that. But in these
red lines it represents a loss of almost 1,000 units from the 1990 Census. Now, we
aren't even dealing with population. The important thing out of the Census is not
only we like to increase our state and federal aid, you also profile your community.
We know that since 1990 we have built approximately 2,000 units. We have
already pointed out, the city-we built 33 units in a particular neighborhood. Again,
Marian, we really are proud of her persistence, and I think it was Thursday, she
finally was able to get the Census Bureau, they mailed, Fed-Ex'd to Marian's
house all of the enumerator districts which is a roll of districts probably the size of
a good cannon. And about as heavy. On Sunday Maclan, Director of Planning and
David and I, we divided up and I know what I did and I am pretty sure what they
did and I happen to have had- I drove every street in that district and looked for
construction activity, demolition activity, change in use, duplex converted to
something else, whatever, to try to find a loss of, in that district there was 46 units.
I can tell you I couldn't find them. Another neighborhood happened to be Dale's.
Dale's neighborhood was a loss of 40 units, predominantly s.£ up offof Mount
Vernon Road, that area. I mean you can picture it in your mind. So we have a
number of difficulties with the count if the housing count is that far off We are not
real sure what happened. We are coming to the notion that 1990 Census
information was inaccurate and it was overstated because we just simply cannot
and of course we rely on that for planning purposes. But folks, there is no way we
would lose 1,000 units of housing in our city in 6 years and we not know about it.
Kubby/And have 2,000-
Atkins/And have 2,000 new construction. That work, again, went on Sunday and I think
we can pretty well substantiate all of those loses. I am going to flip it back to
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Marian now because she spent the time on the phone with the Census Bureau folks
and can tell you where we are because you have a letter in front of you that pretty
well nails what we had to do today.
Karr/Last week we spent the time, as Steve had outlined, on getting the information to
make the comparison. We needed the maps, we needed the areas, needed the
district counts. At the same time I reiterated to them our concern, the disparities
that we thought were there, and they relayed to us that they needed evidence of an
under count. We needed to be specific with addresses that were not counted.
Again, in order to do that we had to do, as Steve had outlined, the drive by and
that type of thing. That is why we did ask them to Fed-Ex the- Got them Saturday
and we worked Sunday on it. The thought- We always knew the deadlines would
be tight. We are in, right now, the phase that you may recall, the "Were You
Counted Cmnpaign." The is the final phase. That is the time that citizens who
have not been counted, to fill out the forms that are available at the library, in my
office, or in the paper. The deadline for those forms is this Friday. We had talked
to the Bureau of the Census about that same type of a deadline for our review.
They indicated to us last Friday that they could wait until the middle of the week
but that was tops. The middle of this week. So we knew that we had until
Wednesday to review all of the districts and get that infom~ation specifically to
them on addresses that they could review in a two day window to finish up the
count. All through this process our top priority was funding for 1997. Based on
the work this weekend, we called back to our contact in Kansas City this morning.
We were told we could wait no longer than today and guarantee any certification
by the end of the year. We have had the addresses and even then any delay in
processing the numbers, even if the addresses were available today, any delay
would mean they could not guarantee certification by the end of the year. with that
thought in mind, they needed something faxed today. We again, had a staff
meeting and going back to our priority #1 of getting those figures certified and not
jeopardizing additional funding for 1997, we gave permission today to start the
processing. Thereby accepting the preliminary figures because we just could not
risk jeopardizing ]997 funding and we just felt that this was the best approach to
take. The letter you have today before you tonight is the letter that was sent today
asking that the processing commence. In other words, go ahead and start your
count. There will be no concerns expressed or any further review by the City of
Iowa City challenging the figures in light of that figure. What we did also ask, you
will note in the letter, is a contact person for future questions because, as Steve
had noted, we use this for planning and for other valuable information. We need to
be able to have a contact person to discuss at the close of the Special Census these
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disparities and better gauge for our future. So the letter does request a contact
person after the Special census is over.
Kubby/Isn't there way to assess if it is viewed that the 1990 Census was an over-
estimation?
Karr/No.
Thomberry/Has anybody, just to get an idea o£just a ballpark- Have you taken the phone
book fi'om that period and the phone book from this period just to see i£there are
more listings?
Karr/No, I have not compared phone books.
Thomberry/I mean that would be interesting just to see if there are more-
Karr/But the phone listings wouldn't tell us housing units.
Thomberry/Not reading the phone book. Just counting the number of pages or-
Karr/But you could have more than one person having a phone number.
Thomberry/I understand that. But you could - I mean, just to get an idea if there is a
thousand less or ifthere is-
Karr/They also noted-
Kubby/But those are not just city limits.
Thornberry/I know but it wasn't then either.
Arkins/Until Sunday, there was really very little we could do. We had two numbers,
population count, housing count, nothing else. Again. to Marian's credit, by
persistence, when she called and asked them for the enumerator districts and I
think your letter of response was, we have never been asked for that. We said
look, we will pay for it, we will do whatever. Marian received the documents in
her home. We farmed them out Sunday. Oh, there is a lot more work we can do.
But when we have but one day to turn this thing around. I mean, think about it.
They are the only game in town.
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Norton/You have got no choice.
Kubby/How can they say one thing one time and another thing another time?
Karr/They acknowledged that there was some confission but acknowledged that this
hasn't occurred ve~j often and until it got to a point that people kept checking
with other people and they started looking at the logistics of it, that the realized
the fact that normally it takes 16 weeks to process a special census of this size.
Because of Iowa City's size and our state requirement of being certified by the end
of the year for funding, they are streamlining that even with the holiday schedule.
So all those considerations did not become known to my contact until today.
Kubby/Even if it was Wednesday instead of Sunday, I mean really what could have been
done with those extra 48 hours?
Karr/We could've had some addresses here.
Atkins/We think we could're added to the count. All we really wanted to do is prove a
point, is that we can go out into these enumerated districts and we can give you
addresses that we can prove to you that your information is incorrect. We had a
couple of days to do that. But again Maclan is talking, we are meeting this morning
about 9:00 or 9:30 at which time the bomb is dropped on her. We had no time then
and that's when we pulled hack and why rush.
Norton/Given the way things went, you're lucky that the household count was up a
couple of thousand, wasn't it, over all?
Arkins/The household count-
Karr/Housing count we lost 874.
Norton/The housing count.
Karr/Housing units count.
Vanderhoeff 874.
Karr/Correct.
Norton/And that's one we're going to have to live with financially.
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Karr/Oh no. We lost on these districts 874. Overall we gained 359 people.
Arkins/Yeah.
Karr/So financially we are going to have an increase.
Norton/By 359 people.
Karr/$162,000.
Atkins/No, it's about $27,000 a year.
Karr/A year, $162,000 over six years.
Arkins/It's something that's, I mean we will recoup our investment, but our real real
bottom line concern is that, and I can't speak with authority, I'd rather have Karin
here commenting on it, but we really are concerned that the 1990 census simply
overstated.
Karr/It should be noted that there's two different procedures. The US Bureau of Census
conducts both censuses, however the decadal census is done by mail, which is all
responded to by mall. The Special Census is all done door to door, so it's very
different components involved.
Kubby/I will be interested to see what the year 2000 brings.
Norton/Do they do a sample follow up on all that? It's supposed to be highly technically
correct.
Karr/We furnished prior to their departure a quality control, we participate in quality
control list which is what we did is we basically took certain areas of town and we
asked them to re-look at them. So they double checked their figures in those
specific areas prior to releasing these figures to us.
Thomberry/The state doesn't want any money back from us, do they7
Karr/No. The 1990 Census is completed. It's done.
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Atkinsl Our population, 59,738, our apparent population certified to the state is certified
by the Bureau of Census. They will now certify a new number of 60,087. That's
the new number that they will certify. The state accepts that number from the
census. Our real concern is that there's something very very wrong about these
numbers.
Thomberry/What were you thinking the number would be before the census? I mean you
had-
Karr/63,000.
Atkias/Yeah, about 63,000, but then in some more thought and analysis, I think, began.
We were talking about the size of the family. The family s'me has changed which
changed that number. Not like this.
Karr/We estimated in March of '95 our population was 63,400 and by March of'96 we
had increased that to around 64,000.
Thomberry/You're saying Don Yucuis had better sharpen his pencil.
Norton/Are all allocations just on population, not on household units?
Arkins/Yeah, the two biggies are the municipal aid and the road use tax and that's just a
flat out population count. Housing is really very critical about how to plan for our
community.
Norton/Yeah. That's what we've been-
Arkins/And we have neighborhoods that are, if you look at the enumerated districts,
they're not very big. I mean sometimes three blocks by three blocks. And you're
telling me there's 50 units of housing gone. That's a lot for that kind of
neighborhood. Something-
Kubby/And when you look there, it just doesn't seem-
Karr/We also should clarify that a sleeping room is not a housing unit. A housing unit is
with a kitchen and a bathroom, not a kitchenette.
Norton/Not a kitchenette.
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Atkins/Yeah.
Nov/It creates a different zoning. Different density.
Arkins/It's very difficult.
Nov/And there's a possibility that people who lived in a rooming house, counted
themselves as an apartment. That's always possible.
Arkins/We don't know. But not that many.
Nov/It's not likely.
Thomberry/With elderly housing where a central kitchen, is that a housing unit or is that-
Karr/It's a group quarters.
Arkins/Group qumers.
Karr/Group quarters, um-huh.
Norton/It's one of those cases where no data is better than some.
Atkins/I think I understand that.
Kubby/Thanks for the update and thanks for all the extra effort on everybody's pan.
Norton/Yes.
Thomberry/This was handed to you.
Council/(All talking)
Vanderhoeff That same staff that was out cleaning gutters on Saturday. Is that correct?
Arkins/We cleaned gutters on Saturday, yes. Do you want a Saturday report?
Norton/Can we get off early tonight?
Nov/Yeah.
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Arkins/Saturday, the city employees, their spouses and children, we had 135 people
involved.
Nov/How nice.
Arkins/We had a total of a little over 300 work hours. We did 32 homes. We had 10 treat
makers which we all appreciated including two council members, so bottom line
we had over 140 folks involved in it. It was well received by everyone.
Norton/Wonderful.
Arkins/A lot of leaves got raked. Gutters were frozen. Sorry folks. We did our best to
work on those depending on the ice.
Norton/Why didn't you get by my house?
Thomberry/Mine either. I had a lot of leaves to rake.
Arkins/We only dealt with the elderly.
Council/(All talking).
Atkins/It is a good project and the new TEAM committee is to be commended for that.
Nov/Lisa was really pleased with how it turned out. She took all the pictures and I told
her we all have to see them.
Atklns/Yes, we did take a lot of photographs and we will show you them. And the man
who tried to offer Dale and I the $5.00, thank you but- He was a great old guy. He
said there truly-
Helling/He said the world was coming to an end because we wouldn't take the money. He
didn't believe that anybody would do that for nothing. And then we decided there
may just be a free lunch once in awhile.
Arkins/It was a good project.
Nov/Very good.
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Vanderhoef/That is all I have.
Arkins/Thank you for offering the Census update opportunity.
Vanderhoeff Thank you.
Nov/Larry Baker.
Baker/Two or three things. First of all for those of you who have not voted early, take the
opportunity tomorrow to go out and vote.
Nov/And take your kids with you.
Baker/That is right. Iowa City is starting a project called Kids Vote and most or all of the
schools have done a registration program for children. So your children can vote at
the school with you early in the morning or in the afternoon. So take advantage of
that.
The Oral B resolution tonight reminded me about a request we made to Steve
about six weeks ago about the ICAD reporting information. Have you put together
something yet on that?
Atkins/I drafted a letter and Larry, I don't think I sent it out yet. I will check that because
I recall the list of items you want. I talked to him verbally. There didn't appear to
be a problem but I didn't confirm it in writing but I will do that and I will copy it
right away.
Baker/For the last time, I want to remind the public that this Thursday, 7:00 PM, at the
University of Iowa Law School auditorium, Boyd Building Law Building, there
will be a debate by the University of Iowa Debate Team. The topic is resolve that
Iowa City should act to revitalize its urban center. It is this Thursday night at 7:00
PM at the Law School. I am wondering if somebody would make sure that the
members of our own d.t. committee who might have missed that information
knows it is going to occur. If they have time they might want to go down there.
What is the status, I have got to phrase this delicately since it occurred in another
session. At one time the council had talked about doing some sort of self
evaluation. What is the status ofthat right now with an outside facilitator?
Kubby/(Can't hear).
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Baker/When was that discussed that-
Kubby/(Can't hear).
Baker/I raise it only because I think we are going to have a discussion in a few minutes
about something else and it seems to be a pattern that I would like to talk about
for a second.
Finally, tonight or this week and this is a personal and political comment from me.
This week marks the end of a 15 year career for a very good friend of mine, Torn
Scott, who has been chair of the P/Z Commission for many many years and before
that was on the Human Rights Commission. Tom has had a remarkable record as a
public servant for this cotnmunlty and he and I first met each other as opponents
and I remember our first meeting on P/Z 15 years ago. He was on about 6 months
before I was when I came on. By the end of the first year we were often having 5-2
votes with Tom and I agreeing against the rest of the Zoning Commission. Since
that time I have worked with Tom and Tom has helped me personally and
politically. I think he helped this community. I think that his record, his public
record, his integrity, his intelligence, his commitment to this city is something that
the entire community ought to thank him for and 1 just want to wish him well and I
urge him not to consider doing anything else for at least a year.
CHANGE TAPE OT REEL 96-133 SIDE 1
Lehman/I would second that, Larry.
Nov/He has been a good volunteer. I have a couple of questions. There was a letter
signed by many people saying move the bus stop at Southgate. I have no idea why
that bus stop was or was not moved.
Arkins / Nor do I. I have to find out for you. I saw that letter and I didn't reach Joe this
afternoon.
Nov/Yeah, find out. Find out if they have any reason other than I don't want to walk
another block or tow.
Norton/It is quite inconvenient at Hilltop. I mean if it would just be a halfa block from
the entrance of the Hilltop to the Southgate/Waterfront intersection.
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Atklns/I just don't know.
Norton/They really need a shelter there, too, I think. It is a good another long block and a
halfback up to Boyrum where the bust stop is and further than that to the shelter.
So I think we should be able to accommodate them.
Nov/It just looks like it is worth re-checking into it.
Atkins/Okay.
Nov/We had a comment in the Design Review Committee's minutes saying the members
have put themselves into categories that we had requested. Remember we said we
were going to try for categories on that committee and the members put
themselves in categories. I would like to see the list. The minutes did not include
the list of each category for each member. So we could do that.
We have a D.t. forum on Thursday, November 14, 7:00 to 9:00 PM in the Senior
Center Assembly Room and we are asking the public to attend. If you are unable
to attend the forum, send your ideas or concerns to the D.T. Strategy Committee
in care of David Schoon, 410 East Washington Street, Iowa City, Iowa 52240.
And I will echo Larry's comment, don't forget to vote tomorrow. If you are
bringing your kids to Lincoln School, I am coming to help with the Kids Vote.
Kubby/Naomi, I forgot. We all reviewed something in the mail today from a
neighborhood having problems with trees creating a water problem, a drainage
problem.
Vanderhoef/Tell me about it. I didn't get it.
Nov/It came at home-
Kubby/Basically it is is that there are a lot of trees that are blocking the flow of water
moving it downstream and it is creating some drainage problems for the
neighborhood and it is not anyone person's problem and the trees are so
intertwined that it would be difficult for one property owner to deal with it and
they are asking for some assistance from the City. Not to do any erosion control
measures or dredging or widening or changing of the creek bed itself. But to help
remove the trees that are causing the problem.
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Arkins/That is private property. I would have to check with them. It is private property.
Norton/How to get in there to do it?
Arkins/It is private property. They own to the creek, yeah.
Kubby/I wonder if there is a way for the city to facilitate the different property owners
coming together to hire a private contractor as a group. If there is a way we can
help facilitate that process. I don't really know what the options are for them. I
mean, when you say it is private property, we are doing something on Shamrock
and Friendship possibly to the tune of half million dollars.
Arkins/I understand-
Nov/We have to understand that if we do a flood mitigation kind of thing on private
property, there will be other private property owners which will request-
Kubby/Since the late '70s we have done Ralston Creek work or even longer than that,
whether it was block grant moneys or not. But we have done creek work on
private property all up and down the city.
Atkins/They do have a problem and we can go out and look at it.
Norton/I thought there was an obligation on their part to keep the channel open. The
DNR or somebody would jump on it, wouldn't they? Isn't that an obligation to
keep that open?
Kubby/They want to.
Norton/Why don't they pull the trees out?
Kubby/It is easier said than done when you got 16 or I don't know how many, multiple
property owners and they are asking for some assistance and I guess I am asking
what kind of assistance can be provided even if it is coordinating.
Norton/We will set a precedent because creeks- We are certainly working at it up at
Shamrock ostensibly, Steve.
Arkins/That is why I need to find out about the Shamrock, how that fits in. Obviously
your point is well taken.
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Norton/It may be true down on Highland and other places where we have storm water
issues.
Arkins/We will find out for you.
Kubby/Thanks.
Nov/Okay, where are we here?
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ITEM NO. 15b P, EPORT ON ITEMS FR. OM '17-IE CITY MANAGER AND CITY
ATTOKNEY.
b. City Attorney
Nov/Linda, the City Attorney.
Woito/I do have something in l~ne with what Larry mentioned. As a member of the Noon
Kiwanis we are volunteering to serve on the Kid Vote precinct at the Rec Center
and so I am organizing and we will be there from 7:00 to 9:00, that is my shift, in
the evening for the Kid Vote. And I hope we get some kids.
Vanderhoef/I understand fi'om one of the central committee for that Kids Vote, that they
have over 400 volunteers out for this election and that the kids are real excited
about it and I will be at Regina tomorrow afternoon after school.
Woito/That is all.
Nov/Great, thank you.
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p~el
ITEM NO. 16 COUNCIL DISCUSSION OF POLICE CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD.
Nov/There has been some interest in deferring this to a work session rather than part of a
formal meeting. Is there still such an interest?
Baker/I would say no. I think we have agreed after some discussion to have a informal
discussion of this, not resolve anything, just keep a process moving at a steady
pace and we have got Steve's report in front of us and I know some of us have
some questions about it. So I hope that we continue to have this discussion as part
of this formal meeting.
Nov/Okay, but there were people who said that foresee it otherwise.
Norton/My understanding. Larry, was that that was a tentative thought that we might do
it that way and then at the end of that discussion it struck some of us that that
might be a precedent that ought to be revived and talked about. Maybe we ought
to have all of our work sessions open on t.v. rather than just some of them on
selected topics. I can agree either way, whatever, but I would just assume do it
without the camera.
Vanderhoef/I would just assume do it without the camera only because we have had
several conversations and we have been working towards putting together a really
good document to put out to the public so that everyone can react to the same
document at the same time. And because of prior conversations that we have had
in a work situation sometimes to fill in everybody what has gone on prior to this
time is the only concern that I have. That something will be taken out of context
because of listening while you are in the kitchen which is the way I do it sometimes
when I listen to a council meeting or some of those things. So, if it is on the t.v. let
the listeners be real aware that this is a work session and this is where we put out
ideas, not necessarily that we are married to any of those ideas. We put them out
for react and feedback from all of the council members and just because you heard
it on television does not mean that that is the way it is going to come out in the
document at the final time when we get ready for public liearing. We will certainly
will have this document ready in the very near future. I think we are very close to
completing it and that ~ve want you all to read the same thing, the same time and
react with the same document.
Norton/I can go either way. I can go either way. Whichever people-
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Thomberry/Dee, I agree with you. When you propose attempting to come to some
resemblance of a conclusion on the proposed of this ordinance during the work
sessions as we have prior to this point. Until we come up with a final draft to
present I think that would be the proper foram.
Kubby/I guess I don't see what the hesitation is to discuss things where more people have
access for discussion. I think it is part of understanding how local governrnent
works and understanding that there is give and take and that I might put something
out that people jump on and I might get stronger in my position or back off of my
position. That it is part of the political education and one of our responsibilities to
let- This is an extraordinary thing that we are talking about doing because of an
extraordinary circumstances and that may be why it is different than other work
sessions. And I just think it is part of understanding local government. I don't mind
making the disclaimer that Dee Vanderhoefjust made periodically throughout our
discussion so that people who are coming in and out of viewing that this is an
evolution of discussion which it truly is. It is a collaborative effort on our part. I
felt very good about our manner in which we have been together on this
conversation. To let people know that it is still an evolution and that it will change
some more.
Baker/I think Dee's reservations about possible confusions, Vanderhoef's reservations,
about possible confusions by listening to any kind of discussion we might have on
this are well funded. I just think that is part of the process that I think we can trust
the public with on this particular issue. I hate to think that we spent a lot oftime
talking about an outdoor care ordinance that is not in front of us with a give and
take and we were aft'aid, not afraid but reluctant to discuss the CRB. So I arn not
going to-
Thornbeny/I don't think anybody disparages the public.
Norton/Whichever.
Vanderhoeff And part of it is, Larry, that really the sidewalk care is one conversation and
because we have had so many prior conversations that the t.v. audience hasn't
seen, that is where I- There is a new one, too, that I would like an opportunity to
read, at least. It was on the desk tonight and I haven't read it before we go into
this conversation. So, can we take a break?
Nov/I was about to say we are taking a break.
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Norton/What is the new one? What is new?
Vanderhoef/There was one put on our desk tonight.
Council/(All talking).
Kubby/We are taking a break and we are going to discuss it in open session.
Nov/Engage in an unusual procedure, a work session discussion which is on camera as
part of a formal meeting and we are going to discuss our potential Police Citizens
Review Board (PCRB). We placed this on a formal agenda a couple of weeks ago
but we are not going to take any formal action. We are just going to have a work
session discussing it. So, Mr. Arkins, would you like to begin?
Arkins/I am not real sure where to begin. I have given you a draft, dated the 21st. There
are a couple of things that I would like to point out I think in the correction
department that I have learned since I drafted the thing for you. A number of them
are based on conversations I have had with a number ofyou informally. One is that
please understand the order in which this was prepared, there is no magic to that. I
think naming the intent, identifying what a complaint is. But after that, the thing
can be structured anyway you want ofthe legislation. Secondly, this is a policy
statement. It is not law. The letter you received this evening fi'om Mr. Glasson,
there are some comments about it. This is not ready to become law. Linda
certainly has a lot of work that she has to do on it. Typically, under the issue of
mediation, I have made a mistake and as I was trying to gleam from a variety of
documents, after reading it I can understand. Mediation is intended to become
more of a conclusive issue. That is when it is mediated and parties get together and
they have decided something, that I think I have implied in here that you can take
it further. It is not arbitration. It is mediation. Discussion between the interested
parties and that language has to be cleared up with the thing. 1 still recommend to
you we have some mediation component in here. Also, while this may appear to be
long winded and I am sure the ordinances is more long winded, we will prepare a
summaD, of some kind. A little brochure or handouts for someone that chooses to
exercise the use of this particular policy. We will have it spelled out in pretty
straight forward terms. You want to file a complaint, here is where you go and so
forth. So I will be doing those things also. What I need to know from you is more
substantive. Are there any major issues in here because we still have to go back
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and clean it up. I would like to do at least another, one more dra~ on the policy
statement. That is kind o£where ! am.
Nov/I would like to run through it page by page. Council members have anyfi~ing they
would tike to comment on page I.
Baker/Can ! raise the most basic question because ! don't know i£it applies where in this
document it is most appropriate to put. So ! don't know where to raise the
question if we go page by page which is something that Dee Norton has talked
about and ! thought the council had agreed the last meeting we had on this that in
the investigation process, there would be a member o£the CRB as part o£the
investigation. And I don't see that anywhere in here.
Arkins] I agree with you and Dee brought that to my attention and I can correct that
because that is what I understood your policy position to be. That you wanted
more direct involvement by the PCRB member in the actual investigation and I am
fine with that and I intend to incorporate. I don't know how yet, but 1 will. I just
missed it.
Baker/Just an oversight.
Atkins/Yeah, I just misses it.
Baker/All right, that is a major question.
Nov/There is investigation on one of these pages. So we would get there.
Norton/The page 4 is where-
Baker/I could put it in a couple of other places, too.
Kubby/1 had a couple of issues on page 1. One is that I just want to make clear that we
are only talking about police officer behavior while they are on duty.
Arkins/Okay.
Kubby/I mean-
Baker/What about officer in uniform. I don't know if that is a distinction that you want to
carry out but-
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Arkins/You don't want to say uniform. Dete.~tives don't wear uniforms. Detectives do
not wear uniforms, Lalxy.
Norton/In that regard, what do we mean again. Do you mean all members ofthe Police
Department or do you mean police officers?
Atkins/My understanding is that this is a police citizens review board and that is police
of~cers. The civilian employees in the department are represented by another
employee group and are subject to a different disciplinary process. This is for
police officers.
Woito/This is for sworn police officers only.
Norton/Can you explain to me what does police officer term cover?
Woito/Sworn police officer means they have gone through the Law Enforcement
Academy and they have had the training and they are sworn, literally.
Kubby/What about the community police officer? That would be termed civilian? They
are actually civilian employees.
Woito/Those would not be covered, Animal Control would not be covered. Only people
who have the authority to arrest are sworn police officers.
Thornberry/City police officers, highway patrol, ShefiWs Department?
Woito/No, it only covers Iowa City Police.
Thornberry/The SheriWs Department in Johnson County-
Woito/We have no authority over them.
Norton/But I mean it includes sergeants, lieutenants, captains, detectives, patrol officers.
Woito/Yes.
Baker/The reason I raised the question about off duty but I uniform is that I have had
experience with other cities with a different sort oforganlzation. In this case it was
a National Guard organization. Off duty National Guard people who were in
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uniform but whose behavior in uniform, even though they were off duty, lead to
internal disciplinary action-
Arkins/I ~bJnk we can, I would have to defer to Linda, but I think we can do that. We
have had some circumstances where behavior outside their regularly assigned
uncompensated time resulted in disciplinary action. Remember the discharge of a
fire ann is one circumstance. That was not while on duty.
Woito/There is a policy that the Chief has the authority to approve certain off duty work.
So it Jaas to fall within that policy as either being covered or not covered and that is
probably going to be on a case by ease basis depending on the facts.
Baker/But there are occasions now where an Iowa city officer can be in uniform working
for someone else?
Woito/No, that is not correct.
Baker/Other cities do that.
Arkins/You mean the hire of off duty officers can occur but that is under very strict-
Nov/They wouldn't be wearing a city uniform.
Arkins/Yeah they would.
Thomberry/I requested uniform officers when I had a business d.t. and it was not
approved.
Atkins/It doesn't happen very often that I know of.
Baker/Like concerts, extra security at large public gatherings where it is not part of their
regular duties but they are hired and paid for by someone else. Are they covered
under this?
Arkins/1 will have to get you a definition of when they would be subject to the policies
and the review of this.
Kubby/That needs to be clarified.
Atkins/We will get that done because I will need to consult with Linda on that.
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Norton/I wanted to add- I am sorry, are we going in some order here?
Nov/Page 1.
Norton/On page 1. I have wanted- I have given this to Steve and I just want to read for
you my version of the second paragraph under intent because it seems to me this
one as now worded misses it a bit. So here is my proposed new wording. I urge
you in an ordinance to be later adopted it is the city councll's intent that the PCRB
shall have the responsibility, as an authority, to 1-receive and assist in the
investigation of and resolution of complaint lodged against the members of the
Police Department or police officers and 2-to review on a continuing basis the
policy, practices and procedures of the Police Department to recommend
periodically to the City Manager and the council changes that the Board deems
necessary or desirable. In other words, I think there were two parts to the charge.
What I am trying to make sure we get in there is to review and investigate
complaints and is to review policies and make recommendations for changes. So
both functions are there. It is not just an urnbuds operation but also review of the
policies. I don't, I am not living on the particular words. Steve has already got
them. I just wanted you to know what I said.
Nov/Okay, that is fine.
Vanderhoeff Are we at tiffs point just going to do the little things? I know this is still
policy written rather than ordinance written. Are we going to have shalls instead of
shoulds? Like in the last paragraph, one, two, three, four line.
Thomberry/Fourth line, last paragraph.
Vanderhoeff The PCRB should be in writing or it shall be in writing7
Nov/Well, eventually it is going to be that way.
Vanderhoet7 Are we going to do that tonight?
Woito/What I anticipate finding out. There are initial things that I would like to ask you
because I need some guidance. From this, if you pass something that is skeletal like
this, I will'write an ordinance and I will respond to Matt Glasson's comments.
Some oftffs comments I agree with. I will respond to it and clean up the
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procedures which are still a little muddy and I have some questions that I need to
ask.
Vanderhoef/Well, I have got some to ask of you, too.
Woito/But anyway, this will be a skeletal document that is a guide. The ordinance will be
much more detailed than this.
Kubby/I have kind of a general issue about complaints on page 1. It comes from a repeat
of a conversation that I think some of the Hawkeye Chapter of the ICLU members
or past presidems had with Steve but they then had with me. Again, about when a
lot of times people don't know who to go to with some concerns and so they
found the president of the ICLU and one of the things that they are hearing is that
people don't always necessarily want to write a written complaint. They don't
always want to put their names on it. They want an ear some of the time. And is it
possible to have an ability to, with the understanding that there is complete
confidentiality. That the complaint won't get forwarded to the Police Department.
The tradeoff being there will be no remedy about the issue. To just have someone
be heard by a member of the PCRB and maybe some informal statistics taken to
kind of know how many complaints are coming in in that way but realizing that no
action will be taken on them if they just want an ear. That to have that ability be
there.
Thomberry (Can't hear).
Norton/Isn't that something they would discuss with the PCRB at intake time when they-
Thomberry/I think that it should be there with no action to be taken.
Kubby/I guess I am bringing this up as kind of a new issue maybe because of the way this
is written that all the complaints will be in writing.
Nov/It is very difficult to review a complaint if somebody is going to say the police officer
wasn't nice to me and I am not going to tell you my name and I am not going to
tell you his name. What is the point?
Kubby/Because one of the functions of us doing this, I think, is for people feel
comfortable about complaining and bringing up some concerns. I don't want to
use the anonymousness of the complaint to kind of enable people who are not
legitimate. but some people, based on reality or not, fear retaliation or are fearful
because of unfamiliarity of the process. But need an ear so they can go forward.
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Thomberry/Would this involve the bringing together of the Board just to hear these
complaints or would it be as an individual member?
Kubby/Right, somebody just call the PCP-,B number or come in.
Thombert3,/They do that with us. People of the community would call one or several of
us to voice a complaint but not come up and speak to the group.
Nov/I have heard complaints on the telephone about the Police Department.
Norton/I should think they would- It wouldn't have any other status ifthey just come in
and talk to somebody, I guess.
Kubby/Right and maybe a little slash as to the nature of the compliant to try-
Norton/Oh, I see, So you t~y to tally it.'/
Kubby/To keep it separate from the written complaints so that they are not mixed.
Vanderhoef/I have a problem when you talk about this. I think we have people who, on
an ongoing basis in the past, have done this kind of thing and gotten the ear of the
Police Department and said, you know, I am really upset at this moment and this is
what is happening and once they get it said and a little discussion there, they are
gone. But when you start saying we want to tally, then we are tallying only
something that is the complalnant's perception and not necessarily-
Kubby/That is why I would keep those tallies separate of the people who will come
forward.
Vanderhoef/I can't validate those tallies.
Norton/Well, you know, we may not do anylhi~lg with them.
Vanderhoef/That is my concern is that number is not going to be a useful number.
Arkins/Can I point out that-
Kubby/Maybe this is a separate thing. Maybe there is the ability to listen to the compliant
without writing it down or exposing their name and there might be four people
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who want to allow that opportunity for the community with or without the tally
and that could be a separate issue.
Arkins/I would like, if you can, to devote yourself to- I will write up a little verbal
complaint procedure because I think many of these things are going to be
somewhat evolutionary on the part of this and I am making notes when you
suggest something. I would like to go back after we are done, with all of your
ideas, re-write this and send it back to you. Then you can throw them out and start
marking them out, get down to the final policy. ! just need your ideas and I can
confirm them in some written-
Nov/I don't want it all complaint policy written into an ordinance.
Arkins/That is fine. This is a policy statement and it may not go into the ordinance but the
PCRB, as a board, may choose to come up with some of their own. As long as
they fu.Ifill the spirit and intent of this legislation, they may choose to do that with
or without your approval.
Norton/It is bound to happen.
Nov/I don't want them to be told they are going to have to listen to an oral complaint and
not record it. This is not the purpose of volunteering for it.
Atkins/With all due respect, they may disagree with you and say we prefer doing it that
way. But as far as writing it into legislation, I can understand why you wouldn't
want to do that but it may be part of the administrative procedure. I need your
ideas so I can re-write this thing to get it back to you. Then you can change it
anyway you want.
Baker/I think the issue that Karen has raised I want to talk more about it but not tonight.
Because coming fro a different institution, academics, what you deal often is
complaints. You never hear about teaching, for example. But you find people have
gone and registered a compliant with a chair or a Dean or something. And you
never hear about it and somehow later it comes back to you indirectly and it is a
very dangerous process for the person complained about as well as, you know, the
person complaining. So I want to talk some more about that.
Norton/On benouced to you, we had 30 complaints.
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Baker/It is like what do you do with these informal complaints? Do they become part of
somebody's record eventually? But the way you keep those records is important.
Arkins/I just really need your ideas. I think once I get those down, I can write language
around them for you. When it gets down to the final pushing and shoving, you can
reject, accept what you want. Remember, this is a working document. If you have
got an idea. Karen may have an idea on one element the rest of you don't agree
with. At least let me draft some language to cause that decision to occur. It is on
my list. I just wrote it down.
Baker/Are we on page 2 yet?
Nov/No, I still have something on page 1. I liked Dave Baldus's definition of allowable
allegations.
Woito/I asree. I susgested that.
Nov/He said excessive use of force, inappropriate language or attitude, harassment,
discrimination in the provision of police services, theft and failure to provide police
protection. I think that pretty well covers it and people should be able to say my
compliant fits into one of these categories.
Woito/That was one of my questions. I wanted to insert that.
Atkins/Yeah and I didn't like that.
Woito/Steve left it out.
Arkins/So I took it out. I didn't wanted it narrow. I wanted it broader. But if you want it
narrow, then we will give it to you narrow.
Woito/It should be narrower.
Thomberry/Attitude is per~ption.
Woito/It is going to be more serious if it is narrower.
Nov/Yes, but inappropriate attitude is a valid complaint.
Atkins/We will write it up that way.
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Thomberry/From someone's perspective.
Atkins/I took certain liberties since I was drafting this thing. I took a few liberties.
Woito/Then I will get my chance.
Arkins/Then she will get her crack at it.
Vanderhoef/It means we have got to watch that, all of us.
Nov/All fight, page 2. Larry wants to say something about page 2.
Baker/I have a quick question on the first, the top part there. I think this is a continuation
of something that Karen started earlier. Shall be given under oath and that can be
part of that other discussion. That why it has to be given under oath and as far as
intimidating the actual people who went through the process. But we can talk
about that in conjunction with the other one. My second question is the PCRB may
at any time with the majority of the affirmative votes of members present. We
don't even let the council do that. To get something doe, you still have to have a
majority of'this body.
Arkins/Change it.
Baker/I just wondered if there was a rationale for that proposed.
Council/(All talking).
Nov/If'they have five people and they have a 5-2 vote, it goes.
Baker/If we only got five members here, three people can't pass anything.
Woito/That is because it is state law.
Norton/That is unusual though. In most cases as long as you have a quorum, the majority
can do it.
Arkins/I will prose an option to majority approves of those present and majority-
Baker/I just didn't understand why the distinction.
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Arkins/No magic.
Nov/Most boards do it that way.
Baker/(Can't hear). I just know we didn't do it that way.
Norton/In that same paragraph I don't want to nit pick too much but a fact is presumably
true. So complaints should allege facts. I said cite specific behavior, I guess, which
have corroborated. I guess you have to allege specific behaviors, don't they?
Arkins/It is redundant.
Norton/I think so. Which includes, of course, verbal behavior.
Atkins/I am surprised the language didn't pick that up.
Nov/One of your editors picked it up and decided it was going to get reviewed anyway
and therefore we don't have to say-
Arkins/It is a draft now.
Kubby/(Can't hear). Intake section. I think it would really help the system move along if
the complainant could state either the action or the remedy that they are requesting
at the time of the intake if they can say. Because if they know specifically what
they want at the front end of the process. So if they are encouraged to state what
they want whether it is an apology, a discussion, a better understanding of how
police procedures work. We know better how to deal with it. Like where to go. It
will give some guidance to the CRB as to how to deal with this particular- It may
be a question that is not mandatory to answer on the complaint form but [fit is
known what remedy they want.
Arkins/Depends on how you frame that because-
Norton/What if they say they want a new city council7
Arkins/I mean, I have had people who will call and say fire the whole bunch. Just fire
them all. We are not going to do that but I don't like what they did-
Kubby/It doesn't mean we have to agree with that. (Can't hear) from the process.
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Arkins/I would be cautious about that.
Woito/I don't have any problem with that.
Kubby/I think it matters (can't hear) well trained people. The intake person is going to
say you may not get what you want. But us knowing it will help us know what
your expectations are and how to deal with you as an individual through this
process.
Baker/(Can't hear) being like a question. What would you like to see happen.
Kubby/Right.
Woito/And those things have to be answered when I do the ordinance in terms of what
remedies are available. So I will back into it that way.
Council/(All talking).
Nov/Listing the accepted allegations, you can also list the accepted remedy.
Arkins/I am just concerned about- I mean you are dealing with people's careers, discipline
potentially and I would just be very cautious about allowing so much latitude
because someone is going to come in and have an expectation and they are not
going to be remotely be able to give them that expected-
Kubby/That is why you have someone- We have talked about this before that they are
someone supporting the person in filling out the application explaining to them you
can say what you want and you may or may not get it. That is part of the
communication. That if you never acknowledge. It doesn't mean that you judge it
to be fair but if you acknowledge what their expectations are, you start off better
on good communication as long as you also say you may not get what you want.
Baker/I don't disagree with that.
Council/(All talking).
Baker/That, I agree with you.
Atkins/I have it on my notes.
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Norton/I think it needs general guidance but it has got to be carefully done.
Kubby/(Can't hear). The whole thing, not just the legalese part of it.
Norton/You can also set up expectations that are hard to match and therefore you may
create more problems. I don't know, I want to think about that one some more.
Arkins/I will give you some language.
Nov/I have a language question on bullet 2 under complaint intake. I think we have to
state firmly the intake will occur at a location other than the Police Department,
not may.
Arkins/They may want to.
Nov/Then your second sentence should say complainants may file with the Police
Department if they prefer. But it ought to be first of all accepted without Police
Department.
Norton/Ordinarily will take place, I don't know.
Thomberry/I mean ifI have a problem with a police o~¢er, I have no problem going with
the Police Department and saying hey, that guy was wrong.
Nov/You don't need this citizen review then. The person who is going to go to the Police
Department doesn't need this whole idea.
Lehman/I think he does though. If he goes and doesn't get satisfaction.
Norton/Yeah, right.
Nov/Nevertheless.
Thomberry/If you change that language, do you have to not go to the Police Department.
Nov/No.
Thomberry/But may says you either may or may not.
Vanderhoef/You have a choice.
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Kubby/The important thing is that the complainant has a choice and language should
reflect that.
Nov/And it doesn't give that language, so you can say complainants may file with the
Police Department office if they prefer but you are setting this up this procedure
for people who do not want to do that.
Thornberry/Well, you can't say that they will-
Kubby/Steve has got it, the choice.
Norton/Steve has got it.
Nov/He has got it. Okay, anything else on page 2? Moving to page 3.
Baker/Mediation, subsection 2. Mediation will be attempted when all parties agree.
Nov/To do so.
Atkins/To mediate.
Baker/Why is it necessary for all parties to agree.
Nov/To agree to do the mediation.
Thonberry/For mediation you have got to have consensus-
Arkins/Ifa party chooses not to play, I just assume not mediate, I would rather have my
behavior subject to a formal complaint and internal investigation?
Baker/I was thinking if the complainant wanted to mediate and the police officer didn't.
Atkinat That you both be given the-
Norton/I have one question about wording in paragraph one under mediation, Steve. And
that has to do with does it always involve just one police person and one other
complainant or could it be a couple or two police officers. Maybe it needs to be
worded so it could be a little more plain. I don't know how you proceed with that
but I can imagine when there is a party of two involved.
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Arkins/And the complaint and the subject police officer (s).
Norton/Because it could be complainants and I guess mediation would mean all of those
parties.
Atldns/Yes.
Norton/The bundle of them.
Nov/YeaIt, there could be a whole family.
Norton/Yes.
Arkins/Okay.
Kubby/Going back to item 2. The language is tellin8 me that everyone has to want to
attempt mediation for mediation process to work.
Thombens,/Sure, you have got to agree to that.
Kubby/But I also want to make sure that there are no underlying quiet or repercussions to
the police officer, pressures, silent pressures to participate in mediation if they
really don't want to. I want to mal{e sure there are no repercussions to the officer
who chooses not to mediate.
Arkins/ No, choice. It is a choice.
Kubby/I guess that is- And how the department is ran. It is not something that you can
legislate. I guess I just want to put that out there to say that I want to create an
atmosphere where there is a free choice, a truly free choice in the work
environment.
Nov/Anything else7
Atkins/I think we are going to strike.
Vanderhoef/You are?
Arkins/Yeah.
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Norton/What is, pardon me, what is the PCRB does have to be in on the agreement to
mediate? Why wouldn't there just be the complainant and the officers?
Arkins/Based on that, we don't need the PCRB. We can set a mediation process up for
you tomorrow.
Norton/Wait a minute.
Arkins/I thought you wanted a PCRB to be a component of the-
Norton/Yeah but I mean they have to agree- They are not a-
Kubby/They are not going to disagree if other parties want to do it.
Norton/But it just seems to me to be redundant to have them and the Police Department.
Would the Police Department say they don't want to on behalf of the offcers? I
don't understand how those other two get in there.
Atkinsl The Police Department is probably not good, you are right. It is the complainant-
Woito/YeaIt, that shouldn't be in there.
Norton/See, to me, it isn't really up to the PCRB. They are going to investigate or go
ahead and help with mediation in some way if the complainants and the subjected
officers both want it.
Nov/I would take the Police Department out. I think there ought to be a PCRB member
of two involved in that mediation also.
Norton/Yeah but not in agreeing to mediate is what I meant.
Nov/Oh, yeah. Why not?
Baker/I understand Dee's point. It is really between the complainant and the officer.
Norton/The complainant and the officer.
Baker/If there is mediation-
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Norton/The PCRB comes into the system.
page 19
Arkins/I thought about the PCRB members may be individuals trained in mediation. You
may want to have them be the actual mediators.
Norton/Oh, they might be but they are not involved in deciding whether mediation, That
is just the complainant and the people who are alleged to have done the misdeeds.
Nov/Okay. Okay.
Norton/Well, think about it, Steve, anyway.
Arkins/Okay.
Thomberry/Why would the PCRB not be interested in mediation?
Arkins/I can't imagine why they wouldn't be. I mean that is the reason for being is
settlement.
Norton/They don't ne.~xt to be there, then.
Woito/Isn't your idea to go through the mediation informally with the complainant and
the police officer and then if that doesn't work, then it becomes a formal.
Arkins/No, mediation is more formal. Mediation means you will go in there and you settle
this thing.
Kubby/But it is not an internal affairs level.
Thomberry/Well, Steve, you could go to mediation and during mediation-
Woito/If mediation doesn't work then you trigger and investigation, right?
Norton/I think there are really three-
Council/(All talking).
Norton/I thought there were three stages involved though and I think this could be
clarified, see. It seems to me it would be possible ifa person comes in and talks
with the PCRB member or whoever is dealing with the complaint and the thing is
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just solved right there in that discussion. What I call really informal discussion.
Maybe they bring the police officer in if it is a person and the three of them. It is
not a formal mediation. That would be really an informal process where you
resolve it fight off the bat with an informal step and then you go mediation would
be another subsequent step somewhat more formal than that where you might
bring in a skilled mediator or something like that.
Arkins/I will get you a better definition.
Norton/I don't want to over elaborate but it seems to me that would be-
Arkins/I will get you a better definition of mediation.
Kubby/Look at items #1 & 3 are conflicting, semi-conflicting definitions.
Atkins/Agree to disagree. No, I understand that. That is not real written. I will change
that.
Vanderhoef/To work with that then. Look at what the notification situation is and what
the appeals situation would be because that is going to take in #6 that is over on
page 4.
Nov/Yeah, we should really check out 5 & 6.
Arkins/6 comes out also and I will write that up better.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Kubby/When we talk about who is a possible mediator, it seems to me that there are two
functions of the PCRB member in being present in a mediation. One may or may
not be they are the mediator. But another one ~vill be just to kind of observe the
process which might be helpful later if the mediation was not successful in
resolving things. To go to a formal internal affairs investigation. That there was
someone there, a neutral body to observe what happened.
Nov/Yeah, that is the way I was thinking for the member of the PCRB. I was thinking
one or two people from that committee would be there and the mediator I was not
visualizing as a member of that committee. The mediator, I thought, would be
somebody hired from outside.
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Kubby/Well, maybe we need to clari~ that. Can the PCRB member be a mediator and if'
so, what is their function later on?
Nov/If someone who is a trained mediator volunteers to be on the committee, free of
cost, there is no reason why they shouldn't be.
Norton/It could be a burden though. If you do the informal thing, the PCRB people could
do the informal. But then if you go to mediation, it would seem to me you would
involve a more trained person to do, an outside person, to do the mediation.
Thomberry/Yeah but I think a PCRB member should be at the mediation.
Norton/Ok, could be there, yes.
Nov/Definitely, one or two of them.
Kubby/A neutral witness.
Thomberry/Well, so that stories don't change.
Atkins/The intent of mediation is well established with all of you. I just need to write it
better.
Norton/Informal and formal.
Kubby/Can we take out #67 The important questions for me £or us to answer is who is in
charge or who gets to make the decision about whether mediation was successful
or not? is it the PCRB as it kind ofintimated in #67 Is it the complainant7
Thomberry/Well, I think both parties have to agree. Both parties that are in the mediation
process.
Arkins/If they don't both agree, it doesn't work.
Norton/The two parties have to sign ofFthat mediation was concluded, X happened.
Thomberry/Both are dissatisfied or both are satisfied. But they both agree to 8o on.
Nov/Yeah, that has to be the complainant and the complaintifF.
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Thomberry/Right.
Kubby/So we are kind ofon page 4 now?
Nov/Were on page 4 and we deleted item 6 at the top. Any other comments on page 4?
Kubby/Under manner of conducting the investigation, #1. There is a thing in here that
says if the complainant is not within the PCRB's jurisdiction. I guess I just- What
would be outside their jurisdi~ion? If it was a sheriff's office or Coralville police
ot~cer, or security? Those are the only-
Woito/Force that is outside that list of jurisdictional definition that Naomi read off.
Nov/I think that definition covers almost everything.
Woito/Well, it covers the big things and I like it, too.
Norton/This is where, on page 4, is where it seems to me where it starts with the
complaints being filed and we can talk about that. But he goes on to discuss if a-
imply in paragraph la. under manner of conducting, that there would be an
informal- That would be what I would call an informal discussion that is attempted
right there and then the mediation would, I guess, I pointed that out in my notes,
Steve. The mediation paragraph would come a~er that, right.
Arkins/Remember the structure. I will improve the structure of this.
Norton/It provides there for informal. You sit down with the watch commander and
PCRB member and the person and see what you can work out.
Kubby/We have all agreed that that is a good thing.
Vandcrhoef/When you look at #2 there and then we go directly to a., b., and ¢.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-133 SIDE 2
Vanderhoet7 Of action possibilities or options. Something so that it heads it up.
Arkins/Say that again, you lost me.
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Vanderhoet7 Okay. #2 you start right in with an a., b., c. without even a title of what a., b.,
and c. are and I am just saying that these are action options of possibilities,
something that draws you right to what you can or can't do.
Council/(All talking).
Woito/Don't you want mediation available at anytime the parties choose it7
Norton/It probably should be. That ought to be an option to back out at anytime and go
to mediation.
Woito/I mean even ai~er you go into the formal investigation, the parties may choose to
mediate.
Norton/That provision should be in there.
Kubby/It may be that the normal thing is the informal talk with the watch commander,
officer, PCRB and complainant, mediation, formal complaint and then an external
investigation if the PCRB deems that necessary. But that mediation is allowed
anytime.
Woito/I think so. I think it should be-
Norton/If both parties agree, they can go that direction anytime.
Woito/Yeah, it will save a lot of time.
Norton/Well, on page 4 then, under 3 upon receipt of a formal grant, this is a point that
Larry made earlier and I made I think at our earlier meeting and others supported
it. Upon receipt of a formal complaint, the PCRB and the Chief of Police shall
initiate an internal investigation. I didn't want the PCRB in some sense directing
the Police Chief and the investigation was going to be something that was initiated
by the both of them, I thought, and it would involve- would be conducted in
pm'agraph a. by a team consisting of Police Department members or police officers
designated by the Chief and representatives designated from the PCRB in some
manner. That is the point, I think. The initial internal investigation would include
some PCRB representation.
Kubby/It would follow the same kind of internal affairs procedures as are currently
instituted.
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Thomberry/What you are saying is the Police Chief does not report to the PCRB.
Norton/Yeah.
Thomberry/That is right.
Norton/But the investigation is initiated by the two of them.
Nov/Yeah.
Kubby/Are we on page 5?
Nov/Yes, page 5.
Baker/Page 5, #6. Having dealt with institutional investigations for 20 years, don't
misinterpret that.
Council/(All talking).
Baker/A month ago I was a witness in a complaint against an institutional official and I
was asked to sign a summary of the investigating officers interview of me and I
have never been happy with the idea ofa summa~, of a statement being part of a
record. I would like to see that if you are taping this, all should be taped for sure.
Then if somebody is going to sign something, they ought to sign a full
transcription.
Arkins/Verbatim.
Baker/Verbatim transcription. I find summaries never accurate.
Arkins/I can prepare language like that.
Kubby/Under #7. I think it would be good for the reasons for granting a request of more
time for the internal affairs to be documented.
Thomberry/Longer than 30 days?
Kubby/Right, if you are granting an extension of time, the PCRB should say why they are
granting it.
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Norton/And that is granted at the request of the investigating team, right? They may say
they need more time.
Nov/If the Police Chief asks for it, 1 would expect that he is going to list a reason and if
they grant it, that would be the reason.
Norton/Why wou!d the Chief ask rather than the investigating team?
Thornberry/He might have an officer on vacation.
Atkins/Illness, could be a variety of things.
Norton/But the team could ask it also, couldn't they? Either one, okay. Because they say
we are just not- We can't get it done tomorrow.
Thomberry/Right. We could take another census.
Nov/Moving on. Anything else on page 5? Page 6?
Kubby/In terms of item a.-
Baker/Demographics.
Vanderhoeff Demographics. Persons.
Kubby/It seems like this information is really irrelevant until a finding of misconduct has
been made.
Arkins/Well, Heather Shank helped me on that and I can't recall exactly where we got it
and I- Sorry, Dale, I didn't mention it to you. She explained the importance of that
information.
Kubby/Well, we need to need the understand the rationale if it is going to remain because-
Atkins/She mentioned that. I assume it has to be something to do with confidentiality. She
said the demographics of the people involved can be very important, particularly
the analysis of what is happening. Let me get you a better explanation ofthat.
Council/(All talking).
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Vanderhoef/Better get us a definition of demographics.
Atkins/You got to call it something and I think that was the term we settled on. You
don't like that, so.
Vanderhoef/Well, I want to understand it.
Arkins/Okay. No, I understand. I am not giving you a good explanation but I do recall we
talked about who are the folks involved.
Kubby/I wasn't so concerned about the demographics. I was more concerned about the
employment record of the subject officer not really being relevant until there was a
finding of misconduct.
Arkins/Well, the employment- Well, okay, until there is a finding.
Kubby/Right. That that information may be relevant in the PCRB be concurring or not
concurring with the people who have the power to make the disciplinary action
decision which is the city manager and/or the Chief.
Norton/I have a comment that might be useful to this point. On paragraph- On page 5,
sorry folks but I am still on page 5, paragraph 9. Because this has to do with how
the report is submitted and I had thought that the investigating team submits their
report to the Chief, in my judgment, and that the Chief would then have some X
number of days to review that report, prepare his comments and recommendations,
and submit them with the report as it goes to the PCRB. When they get it- Now, if
the investigative reporting includes a finding of misconduct, the Chief must include
disciplinary recommendations together with his rational as a part of his comments
on the report. Then they would have ever3nhing they need, I think, to proceed.
Arkins/That is what that says?
Nov/Yeah, that is what it says.
Atkins/I think that is it.
Norton/It says the Chief will present his findings in sufficient detail. But does he get the
report first?
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Nov/And then it says this will include a., b., c.
Kabby/But that is part of the internal affairs process that is already there. So maybe that is
why it wasn't included.
Norton/Well, I wasn't clear that everybody understood that the report goes through the
Chief to the Board.
Nov/Oh, well, we all understood that.
Thornberry/Yeah, I think so.
Norton/Well, you are all quicker than I.
Kubby/Probably one of the biggest questions on page 6 is #12 as to what standards the
PCRB will use to determine their findings and I guess I would like Linda to outline
the clear and convincing evidence versus beyond a reasonable doubt on the more
restrictive or the more onerous side of that and then whatever, I can't remember
the language on the less onerous side &clear and convincing evidence.
Thornberry/Yeah, well what is the standard?
Kubby/What is outlines ere is one thing. I want to be real clear about what it is and the
pros and cons of the three different levels of standards and what is most
appropriate for our purposes.
Woito/The less onerous is preponderance of the evidence which is this 51-49. I mean if
you had 51%, in one hand it would be slightly more evidence going toward that
result. Clear and convincing is a high standard.
Kubby/But not up to 99?
Woito/No.
Baker/So you have beyond reasonable doubt, clear and convincing, preponderance of
evidence. Those three options and you will explain to us.
Woito/I need to do- You know, much of my time has been spent on other things and now
I need to do some serious reading on this.
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Kubby/So it would be helpful to me, why this is the clear- Is this the clear choice for-
Woito/And I don't have any real strong feeling about that.
Baker/Steve, if you have looked at other ordinances.
Arkins/I took this fi-om I think it was from either Berkeley or Oakland.
Nov/I thi~ that if we are dealing with the citizens committee and they come up with a
really close vote and they say well, 51% of the evidence is here. I think that is not
strong enough. I would really like this clear and convincing language.
Lehman/I do, too.
Nov/Also, while ! am here, I like demographics being included. I agree with Heather on
that one.
Kubby/Steve, did you find out what the Human l~ights Commission uses as their standard
for determining their findings?
Arkins/No.
Kubby/It would be interesting to know what another body, a citizen body, thinks (can't
hear because of Baker's coughing) some ability or authority to make some
determination.
Woito/Probably cause to believe that discrimination has occun'ed
Kubby/So a totally different kind of standard for their purpose. Okay, so that is not
helpful.
Woito/Which is lower than preponderance of the evidence.
Kubby/Okay.
Nov/But all they determine is that there has been some discrimination. You have a right
to sue. They don't actually come out with a definition that says this is your
remediation, do they7
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Woito/If it goes to p.h., they have a fight to make a finding on whether discrimination has
occurred and that uses the administrative standard which is what a reasonable
person would- It is a reasonable person standard in terms of administrative law.
Nov/And does the Commission decide on the remediation as well?
Woito/Yes. That is all established by state law and city law.
Vanderhoef/l have one more thing on page 6 if we are ready to move on. #13, we are
talking about disciplinary decisions and appeals for the officer which we recognize
is a Civil Service Commission for those people. However, it doesn't speak to
appeal by the complainant which is also, by law, the district court which is their
possibility. So I would almost like to split off there and put what I would call an
appeals section and then put I & 2.
Kubby/And actually what I would like to do with that is to have the same process for the
officer as for the complainant and that we- Linda has told us that the Civil Service
Commission can't do it by state law because we are preempted from expanding or
reducing their duties, right? That we allow the same opportunity for the
complainant as we do the officer. The same kind of process and that we should be
creative in how we do that by having a separate commission that listens to the
appeal of the complainant have them work under the same guidelines of the Civil
Service Commission and have the same members as the Civil Service Commission.
So it is a parallel commission with slightly different duty but it is the same rules
that apply in terms of it is the complainant's.
Norton/What are they appealing? That the sanctions weren't sufficient or something like
that?
Kubby/Or that they were too much. To go either direction.
Nov/I don't think that the complainant would tell you that the sanctions were too much.
Vanderhoeff That is not my intent here.
Woito/We talked earlier about appealing to Steve or to the council or going directly to
court.
Nov/Yeah.
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Woito/Those are your three options.
Thomben-y/I think you need a separate commission to-
Kubby/Those are the three options. I have outlined a fourth option. People might not like
it but it is a fourth option.
Woito/True, that is an option.
Kubby/So that it is equal. It is a parallel system because one of the things that I have
heard some people, especially officers, that they want a fair and consistent
treatment.
Thornben'y/Well, everybody does.
Norton/Now wait a minute. They go to the Civil Service and where would you suggest
that the complainant go iftbey don't like the outcome? They go to the council I
would guess. I don't know where else.
Kubby/I am suggesting that they go to the Civil Service Commission but we don't call it
that when it is the complainant kicking in that process because we can't, by state
law, do that.
Thomberry/You want a separate board?
Norton/A separate set of people?
Kubby/A separate board that has the same set of rules and the same individuals on the it.
It fianctions the same way but it is not called the Civil Service Comnfission.
Nov/But it has the same people on it.
Kubby/And it has the ~me people on it.
Norton/Oh, gosh.
Nov/Oh, no. Tfiat sounds like circumventing law. No, I don't think so.
Norton/Why doesn't this person appeal to the PCRB.
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Woito/They couldn't wear two hats. They would have too many conflicts.
Norton/Ira person doesn't like the ruling, if you wish, of the ?CRB. Isn't that the
question of where they go then. I suppose they go to the council.
Nov/I would say they can complain to the council and city manager much more easier
than going to court.
Norton/City manager first.
Atkins/I am not so sure you want that. Most di~plinary action I confer and confirm the
disciplinary action with the depaxtment director. They don't take action without
conferring.
Kubby/So that would create con/lict right away.
Atkins/For me it would create a conflict.
Kubby/But not for council. So it seems like of the four options that have been thrown
out, that the council or district court-
Norton/See what it looks like when we see it.
Baker/It is my understanding that the council wants the Civil Servic~ Commission has
upheld up made the decision about the punishment, the council doesn't have any
control over that, do they?
Kubby/Not for the o~cer. That is why I am suggesting a parallel system.
Norton/It is the person we are talking about.
Baker/I don't understand how this is going to help the complainant. Going to the council
to appeal-
Norton/I see what you mean. There is no remedy, you mean. I see.
Thomberry/The complainant isn't going to have disciplinary action.
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Baker/No. I thought the issue was that the complainant didn't feel the discipline imposed
by this process up through the Civil Service Commission was su~cient. They
wanted to have some way to appeal that.
Norton/Can they appear before the Civil Service Commission?
Kubby If they did not find it satisfactory and it could go either direction. I could foresee
that someone wanted a policy change. That was their goal. Instead what happened
was severe disciplinary action of the officer. I might say I don't want to punish the
individual, I want to change the system. That is not what I came for.
Nov/But you would say that to the PCRB and we could then direct them to review the
procedures and policies.
Kubby/But it sti~l may result in discipline of an officer that was not the intent of the
complaint. I arn just trying to say that it could happen in both directions, not
always that they wanted-
Baker/I am just trying to figure out the appeal role of the council.
Atkins/If there is interest, let me call around to other cities and see what they do.
Norton/Can people appear before the Civil Service Commission at the time they are
making their finding?
Kubby/They have hearings (can't hear).
Woito/It is a mini-trial.
Norton/But can the complainant appear there?
Nov/If the o~cer feels, the complainant would be requested, yes. They would appear.
But it would not be the complainant's appeal.
Norton/I understand.
Baker/Karen, is there an analogy between our relationship with the Board of Adjustment?
The city can take, can go to court to overturn the decision of the Board of
Adjustment if we disagree with it. I don't think we have ever done it. But. Do you
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want the city to be in the position of taking the Civil Service Commission7 Can we
do that now anyway?
Woito/You can do it now anyway,
Baker/Oh, you can do it now anjway.
Woito/You c~n do it now anyway.
Norton/Well, let Steve lay it out and see what it looks like.
Baker/Rather than the complainant having to go to court, if the complainant convinces
the council to disagree.
Atkins/Keep in mind, even if'you create the appeal, the individual can still go to court.
No matter what. It always has that available to you.
Thomberry/And the officer can go to court, can take us to court at~er going through the
Civil Service.
Arkins/Civil Service, absolutely. Yes.
Woito/Well, you don't have to provide a remedy to court. Is that what you want?
Kubby/What are the options for appealing by the co~nplainant?
Woito/Well, if you put it in the ordinance then they would go to court.
Baker/We don't know what the options are yet though.
Vanderhoef/It still would be a choice.
Woito/If you want the court as a choice, you need to tell us.
Lehman/They always have that choice whether we put it in the ordinance or not.
Woito/Yeah but you would have to style it as a declaratory judgment action, a private
tort action or- But if you put it-
Thomberry/That would be up to the complainant, wouldn't it?
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Kubby/(Can't hear) depending on what is outlined in the ordinance.
Woito/Yes.
Thomberry/I mean, just because we have an ordinance and the complainant doesn't get
satisfaction, they can 8o to court. The ordinance, whatever the ordinance says isn't
going to change.
Woito/Yes it will because if it is in the ordinance then they would appeal based
presumably on all of the record fi'om the citizen review board. All of that record
would go to court which- Where is if they sued in a tort action, they would have to
go out and hire a lawyer and do all the discovery and spend some money to prove
police misconduct. I mean it would be a very different animal.
Kubby/But it seems like we are agreeing-
Thornberry/They still could request the file from the CRB.
Woito/Oh, they could.
Thomberry/To present to the court.
Baker/I think the council has agreed has agreed that we want Steve to come up with
some options on the complainant's appeal process.
Thomberry/Why would we need to have that in the ordinance.
Woito/I want to think about thal.
Nov/Please do.
Baker/How does, again, going back to Human Rights Commission. They gather
information, there is no resolution, somebody can still take the Human Rights
Commission investigation as evidence to court?
Arkins/I imagine-
Woito/There are very specific outlines in the state law that tell us what we can and can't
do in terms of rights sued, administrative release and all of that.
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Norton/This is a part I commented to Steve before we started this discussion that, you
know, Dave Baldus has given us a fair amount of advice on this matter and I am
sure that he and Linda and he would be glad to talk with Linda and Steve. He has
some ideas about this end game. Kind of complicated how the end game is worked
so that it doesn't get an infinite regress of some kind. I am sure-
Woito/I need time to review this pile of stuffthat he gave me because my time has been
taken up with quite other matters here.
Norton/I am just saying there is another resource.
Woito/No, it is there. I just need to take time to read it.
Norton/I appreciate that.
Nov/Okay, I am on page 7. Everybody on page 7? I would like to see the membership
include a retired police officer or sheriff or somebody like that from another
jurisdiction and because that person does not live in Iowa City, I would like to say
that one seat maybe a non-resident.
Kubby/And have that one seat be flexible and changing all of the time.
Nov/(Yes).
Thomberry/I have no problem with that.
Nov/We have to have somebody representing the point of view of a police officer.
Woito/You need someone for law enforcement for sure.
Kubby/I suggested there are Coralville police officers who live in Iowa City.
Nov/There can be but I was thinking it ought to be somebody is who retired, who is not
right there right now and it is possible that there is somebody who worked for the
police in Cedar Rapids and lives in Coralville but who is retired and I just didn't
want somebody who is currently on duty to be on this board.
Arkins/What I would like from you is and I don't think you have to tell me tonight. Just
make a list of if you are interested in having very specific appointments. I simply
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put the Johnson County Bar Association there to peak your interest to say do you
want to get into that. Because most of your boards and commission now are just
made up of citizens who are on the job training. They learn. P/Z Commission.
Norton/He says let's list how we want to earmark-
Arkins/If you want to earmark them, just make a list for me.
Lehman/I think this is unique enough that we really need somebody that is legal minded, I
think. We also need someone with law enforcement experience.
Kubby/I don't think the majority of CRB members should be part of the criminal justice.
Nov/Not a majority, a person. A person.
Kubby/Well, it matters ifyou start earmarking-
Norton/Let me tell you, tilere is considerable earmarking.
Kubby/It is a caution that I have. From your reaction it sounds like you agree with that.
Nov/We all agree with that. I would like to see one lawyer and one retired police officers
and the re, st of them ordinary folks.
Kubby/So we have a precedent, for example, with the Board of Appeals where we need
certain kinds of expertise with plumbing expertise, electrical expertise,
construction expertise and with the Design Review where we have earmarked. It is
not unusual for us.
Vanderhoef/And we have got seven members sitting there and it crossed my mind that
maybe this would be more like board and Appeals and size might be a large
enough one.
Atkinrd No magic, I just picked a number.
Vanderhoef/1 throw that out for people to think about.
Nov/It is just a number.
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Vanderhoef/And the other concern or something I want people to think about is that if we
are putting people with certain expertise like lawyers and retired policeman and so
forth, that we are real clear that they are one person, one vote of a community
body and just because you know the law of what can happen in these situations,
that there isn't a preponderance of legal responsibility put onto this person.
Nov/And that is all the more reason to go for seven people.
Baker/Which leads to my real question which we haven't discussed staff support, staff
liaison. Who is responsible on staff for coordinating this?
Atkins/We have only had, Linda and I, a very brief conversation about this and that is
clearly an issue that she needs to think about. Is that from a legal standpoint, will
Linda's office provide the legal advice to this board. My preference is yes simply
because it just will make the process. However, it would seem that if you are
providing legal advice to the Board at the same time, if it gets appealed to the Civil
Service Commission, Linda is kind of stuck. As far as general staff support, we
have knocked around a few ideas but we have to have someone prepare the
agenda, keep the paperwork moving and we don't have an answer for you on that.
We have some ideas and we will commit those to writing for you all.
Nov/We need those ideas.
Baker/What happens with the Human Rights Commission if there is a case involving the
city. Would the Human Rights Commission has a city attorney liaison from your
office, what if there is a complaint within the city.
Woito/We don't take them.
Baker/How do you-
Woito/Those have to go to the state. We do not, it is in our ordinance. We do not take
city employees.
Norton/I want to throw in here in thinking about the structure of this thing. That we may
have some affirmative action issues to consider on this board. So we want to think
about that when you are thinking about earmarking.
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Kubby/And I guess in talking about earmarking expertise or characteristics, that we are
getting away from the idea of allow'rag organizations to appoint someone. Is that
true?
Nov/I would like to get away from that.
Kubby/I think it is good because the bar association or whoever is not going to be
accountable to the public.
Norton/We have to balance this thing.
Nov/I think having them suggest somebody is fine. My other choice would have been to
get the Dean of the law school to suggest a couple of people because we might be
better off with a lawyer who is not practicing. One of the professors. No? No,
okay.
Arkins/Make a list. Make a list.
Kubby/I have a couple of suggestions. I know that we are going to do a lot of training
and orientation with people. But two other things we might want to add to that list
of orientation is the Citizens Academy so that people can understand how our
police department works and doing a couple 0frides with officers so they can get a
sense ofwhat-
Arkins/Didn't I have that in one of the earlier ones?
Kubby/And I don't know if we need to do any kind of background checks. I mean even if
you ride with the Fire Department, they have to do a background check on me.
Norton/What did they find?
Kubby/I don't think it was anybody's business but I was accepted and I did ride it.
Norton/The Police Department didn't ask for background checks.
Kubby/No, you just have to do a waiver.
Thornberry/Did you have to hang on to the back of the truck?
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Kubby/No, I didn't get to do that. But to make sure that someone who has applied that
seems good on paper doesn't have 55 arrests and maybe have an ax to grind. That
would be important information.
Baker/How are we doing on our 90 day schedule?
Atkins/September 23 was day 1.
Baker/So we are only a little less than halfway through.
Arkins/About halfway through.
Baker/That is not bad.
Arkins/However, once you settle on a policy that is okay, I will have done most of- The
load of the work is writing the ordinance.
Baker/I understand. The public hearings and-
Atkins/Just so you understand that.
Thornberry/Most of this, Steve, didn't come- We are not inventing the wheel here. We
are getting ordinances from all over.
Arkins/But you still, but when I was writing this, I had ordinances set all over the desk
and you are picking and choosing to kind of make some rational out of it.
Kubby/You know what might be really helpful for us, too, is when we tentatively finalize
the next version of this which is also kind of a repeat of a disclaimer, a couple of
times made. That this is an evolving conversation. Anything you have heard here
can and may change.
Nov/Oh, it definitely will change.
Kubby/To have it- There has been two academics across the country that we either have
connections with or will have connections with, hopefully, that study this. To kind
of look at what do other communities do it and have a good complication of all
those ordinances as well as now Steve does. But it would be nice to send this to
Dr. and Dr. Walker in Lincoln. To say this is what we want to have
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happen. Doe~ this outline really do that and what kind of suggestions can you
make maybe before he writes the ordinane~.
Arkins/They will also probably want to charge you for that.
Norton/A little expertise.
Kubby/I think we should ask them as part of their academic.
Norton/Professional growth.
Nov/This is too vague. If'you really want comments, you would rather have an ordinance
that is more specific.
Kubby/We could do it both times, actually.
Norton/That is a pretty big courtesy.
Arkins/We will seek- I mean, I have no trouble sending it to anybody you want me to
send it to.
Nov/Just wait until we have an ordinance and it is much easier to comment on it when it
is specific. This is really a vague working document.
Norton/We know Dave has volunteered to comment on it without charge so far.
Nov/Dave will be a good cornreenter.
Thomben~/You bet. He has got some good ideas.
Woito/A wealth of information which I really need to spend some time on.
Kubby/Real good conversation tonight about this.
Nov/Okay. One more disclaimer. We have been discussing a working document. This has
been a work session. We will get back to a formal document some day soon.
Atkins/We are going to redraft this in a similar fashion as a policy proposal and I will find
some way in the draft to set off some of those elements for separate discussion
where there is some possible disagreement. But that is how I will redraft. I will
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also try to put it in an order that reads a little more logical for you. You
understand what I mean.
Kubby/If people out them have questions about what we discussed, instead of'making
some assumptions about this being final or repeating something that may not be
what we are doing, please call one of us to clarify any questions that you may have
and also suggestions as to what you have heard.
Nov/This dral~ document is available. You may have a copy of it. Anybody who wants it,
come and get it.
Thomberry/And-I would like the public to know that I really don't care of this
arrangement in our work sessions. We normally sit around a round table with no
head and no foot. Well, we do always have a head. And we can look at each other
in the eye when we are talking to each other and get not just the words but get the
feeling for different inputs and I really like that set up better than sitting in a line
and look down the line at somebody when they are talking. I really like that table
better.
Nov/Now we are going to reconvene our executive session and do we need another
motion to reconvene or can we just do it?
Woito/Motion to reconvene.
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1996
City Council Work Session Agendas and Meeting Schedule
INovember 4
5:30 p.m.
6:30 p.m.
Special City Council Work Session - Council Chambers
T/roes Are Approximate
5:30 p.m. Review Zoning Matters
5:40 p.m. CEBA Grant Application - Oral B
6:00 p.m. Traffic Calming
6:25 p.m. Council Agenda, Council Time
Special City Council Meeting - Council Chambers
Monday
INovember 5
NO CITY COUNCIL MEE?ING
Tuesday
INovember 1 1
Monday
VETERANS' DA Y- CITY OFFICES CLOSED
JNovember 13 ' Wednesday
4:30 p.m. Special City Council Work Session - Joint Parks and Recreation Commission -
- 7:00 p.m. Room B, Recreation Center
November 18
7:00 p.m. Regular City Council Work Session - Council Chambers
Monday
I November 19 Tuesday
7:00 p.m. Regular Formal City Council Meeting - Council Chambers
IDecember 2
7:00 p.m. Regular City Council Work Session - Council Chambers
Monday
I December 3_ Tuesday
7:00 p.m. Regular Formal City Council Meeting - Council Chambers
IDecember 16 _ _Monday
7:00 p.m. Regular City Council Work Session - Cooncil Chambers
LDe~.ember 17
7:00 p.m. Regular Formal City Council Meeting - Council Chambers
Tuesday