HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-12-03 Agenda (2)Subject to change as finalized by the City Clerk. For a final official copy, contact the City Clerk's Office, 356-5040.
AGENDA
December 3, 199§ 7:00 p.m.
Civic Center
CALL TO ORDER.
ITEM NO. 1
ROLL CALL.
ITEM NO. 2
ITEM NO. 3
SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS.
a. Outstanding Student Citizen Awards
(1) Robert Lucas Elementary School
(a) Jenna Dibbem
(b) Tom Lalla
(c) Lisa Morano
CONSIDER ADOPTION OF NSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED
OR AMENDED.
a. Approval of Official Council Actions of the special meeting of
November 19, 1996, as published, subject to corrections, as
recommended by the City Clerk.
b. Minutes of Boards and Commissions.
(1) Iowa City Airport Commission - October 10, 1996.
(2) Planning and Zoning - October 17, 1996.
(3) Planning and Zoning - November 7, 1996.
c. Permit Motions and Resolutions as Recommended by the City Clerk.
(1) Consider a motion approving a Class C Liquor License for Carlos
O'Kelly's of Iowa City, Inc., dba Carlos O'Kelly's Mexican Cafe,
1411 S. Waterfront Dr. (Renewal)
Consider a motion approving a Class C Liquor License for Ground
Round, Inc., dba Ground Round, 830 S. Riverside Dr. (Renewal)
#2
p~el
]TEM NO.2 SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS.
a, Outstanding Student Citizen Awards
(1) Robert Lucas Elementary School
Jenna Dibbern
Tom Lalla
Lisa Morano
Nov/We have some Outstanding Student Citizen Awards for Robert Lucas Elementary
School. Jenna Dibben, Tom Lalla and Lisa Morano, please come forward.
Okay, we happen to have a certificate citizenship award for Lisa at the top of our
pile and Lisa has a presentation to read as well. The award says (reads certificate).
Now, we are going to let you read before you hold this because it is going to be
easier that way.
Lisa Morano/Hello. l am 12 years old and in 6th grade at Robert Lucas Elementary and
these are the reasons that I won this award. I have been playing the cello for three
years. I have been in Girl Scouts for 6 1/2 years, I enjoy volunteering to xvork in
the nursery at my church and I am active in our churches youth group. I often
baby-sit for families in my neighborhood so that the parents can have some free
time to themselves. My biggest involvement fight now is that I am in Club.
This is a group of five kids that have been working hard to make the __ which
is a fossil uncovered in 1993 Iowa State fossil. Our school's ELP teacher, Mrs.
Red, is a teacher advising us and helping us. Receiving this award is a real honor
and I will continue to try to live up to what it represents. Thank you.
Nov/Congratulations. Okay, Our next award is for Jenna Dibben and it says exactly the
same thing as the other one and Jenna would like to tell you why she is getting this
award.
Jerma Dibberrd Hi. First let me say I feel very honored to be chosen to receive the
Outstanding Citizenship Award. I believe that you should always do your best
wherever you do and that we all have a responsibility to contribute to our
community. At school I enjoy being challenged and doing good work. I have been
a student council representative for the past two years and this year as a student
council president, I am helping to make things better for students and staff at the
school. It is important to look for ways to grow as a person and to try and set a
good example for others. Activities like the Club are a way for me to learn
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the lowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#2
page 2
and share out state's geological history. Girl Scouts, safety patrol, orchestra, and
helping with volunteer activities are some other ways for me to learn good
, help others and to have fun. I look forward to challenging myself in the
future and helping where I can. Thank you for selecting me to receive this award.
Nov/Congratulations. Okay, Tom, you are next.
Tom Lalla/I was chosen for this award for demonstrating my leadership skills on the
playground and in the classroom, for helpin8 kids in the special needs class, for my
positive attitude and I participate in boy scouts, wrestling, baseball and soccer.
Thank you.
Nov/Congratulations. Everybody turn this around to face the camera and hold it in front
of you so that we get everybody with the certificates in the picture. Okay, very
good.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 3, 1996
City of iowa City Page 2
(3)
Consider a motion approving a Special Class C Liquor License for
Mustang Enterprises, Inc., dba Country Kitchen of Iowa City,
1402 Gilbert St. (Renewal)
Motions.
(1)
CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $10,284,276.02 FOR THE PERIOD OF OCTOBER 1
THROUGH OCTOBER 31, 1996, AS RECOMMENDED BY THE
FINANCE DIRECTOR SUBJECT TO AUDIT. DISBURSEMENTS
ARE PUBLISHED AND PERMANENTLY RETAINEO IN THE CITY
CLERK'S OFFICE IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE CODE.
e. Resolutions.
(1)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE HISTORIC
PRESERVATION COMMISSION TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR A
CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT (CLG) GRANT TO OBTAIN
FUNDS FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONDUCTING A PROFESSIONAL
SURVEY AND EVALUATION OF HISTORIC RESOURCES WITHIN
A PORTION OF THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD.
Comment: The Histodc Preservation Commission has prepared a
CLG grant application for the purpose of conducting a survey of a
portion of the Longfellow Neighborhood. The Commission recently
completed a survey of the Longfellow Neighborhood west of Ralston
Creek. That survey identified a potential historic district, but
recommended that the area east of Ralston Creek, containing
properties along Rundell Street, Dearl0om Street, and Seventh
Avenue, be surveyed to determine the eastern boundary of the
district. Therefore, the Commission intends to apply for a grant of
$4,450 to assist in hiring a consultant to complete phase II of the
survey which would require a local match of $3,000. The
Commission, intends to provide this match through funds donated by
the Longfeliow Neighborhood Association through the PIN grant
program, funds allocated in the budget for historic preservation
activities, volunteer work, and in-kind services and supplies.
(2)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE WORK FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA RIVER CORRIDOR TRAIL
PROJECT, IOWA MEMORIAL UNION BRIDGE TO IOWA AVENUE,
Comment: See Engineer's Report,
(3)
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING WORK FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF THE ABBEY LANE SANITARY SEWER
PROJECT.
Comment: See Engineer's Report.
December 3, 1996
City of Iowa City
Pa~e a
(4}
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ADOPTION OF
THE ALLOWANCES FOR TENANT-FURNISHED UTILITIES AND
OTHER SERVICES FOR THE IOWA CITY HOUSING AUTHORITY
PROGRAMS.
Comment: This is an update of current utility allowances used by
the Iowa City Housing Authority. HUD requires Public Housing
Authorities to review utility allowances annually. The last time
utility allowances were updated was July 1995. The Housing and
Community Development Commission recommended at their
regularly scheduled meeting on November 21, 1996, that the
utility allowance rate of increase be tied to the Fair Market Rent
(FMR), and that the Utility Allowance be increased by one-fourth
of the increase in the Fair Market Rent (FMR). Since most of the
Section 8 tenants do not pay water, the increase is being added
to the gas and electric allowance in order to benefit the most
tenants. Revised Utility Allowances will be effective
February 1, 1997. The Commission's recommendation is contrary
to staff recommendation in the November 26 staff memorandum
included in Council packet.
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ADOPTION OF
THE REVISED VOUCHER PAYMENT STANDARDS FOR THE
IOWA CITY HOUSING AUTHORITY VOUCHER PROGRAM.
Comment: The Iowa City Housing Authority is required to revise
the Voucher Payment Standards in compliance with HUD
regulations for use in it's Voucher program. The Voucher
Payment Standards must not exceed 100% of the current Fair
Market Rent (FMR) or be less than 80% of the FMR. The new
FMRs went into effect on October 1, 1996. The Proposed
Voucher Payment Standards reflect the average contract rent in
the Voucher Program. Consideration by staff was given in
determining the amount of the increases that they be in line with
the current Annual Contributions Contract (ACC). Housing and
Community Development Commission unanimously approved the
increase at their regularly scheduled meeting on
November 21, 1996. Revised Payment Standards will be
effective October 1, 1996. The Commission's recommendation is
consistent with staff recommendation.
f. Correspondence.
(1) John Weber - pedicab insurance.
{2) Bill Kidwell (Windsor Ridge Homeowners Association) - speed limits
on American Legion Road,
(3) Joe Eichelberger- Oakland Cemetery.
(4) Betty Sedlacek- Oakland Cemetery.
(5) Fran Jensen (Iowa City & Coralville Convention and Visitors'
Bureau} - hotel/motel tax revenues.
December 3, 1996
City of Iowa City
Page 4
ITEM NO. 4
(6) The Monday Forum - security and enforcement for Central Business
District. (previously distributed)
(7)
Dean A. Spina (Bradley & Riley, P.C.) - Request for an independant
investigation, Yeggy property. {previously distributed)
ITEM NO. 5
PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
Consider setting a public hearing for December 17 on an ordinance
vacating the north 12.5 feet of the F Street right-of-way for a distance
of 75 feet immediately west of First Avenue. (VAC96-0002)
Comment: At its November 21 meeting, by a vote of 6-0, the Planning
& Zoning Commission recommended approval of the proposed vacation,
subject to the retention of easements. Staff recommended approval in
the November 21 staff report.
Action:
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, Article J, entitled
"Overlay Zones," Section 2, entitled "Planned Development Housing
Overlay Zone (OPDH)," subsection D, entitled "Regulations," to indicate
that parking reductions may be approved for non-residential uses as
part of a Sensitive Areas Overlay rezoning. {Second consideration)
Comment: At its October 3 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission by a vote of 6-0 recommended approval of the proposed
amendment. Staff recommended approval in a_report dated October 3.
/
# 3 page 1
ITEM NO. 3 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED
OR AMENDED.
Nov/Adoption of the Consent Calendar as presented or amended and we have amended
it. So let's say the Consent Calendar as amended.
Kubby/So moved with item 4 on page 3 being taken out for separate discussion.
Vanderhoef/1 would also request item 5e be removed for more information.
Baker/I second that.
Nov/Okay.
Karr/Point of clarification. Are you deferring them or are you just removing them for
separate discussion this evening?
Vanderhoef/I would like to have both of these deferred to December 17.
Nov/Well, we had talked about deferring item 4. Do we also want to defer the next one~
Kubby/Let's just take them out for separate discussion and therefore we can defer them
when we get- I have a few questions for Doug before I could vote to deter one of
them.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Nov/Okay. We will remove them for separate discussion. Is there a second for this
motion?
Thornberry/I will second.
Nov/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Thomberry that the item be adopted with a separate
discussion for 4 & 5. Now, let's have a roll call on the rest of it and then discuss
the others or do you want discussion first? Okay, roll call on the entire Consent
Calendar except for 4 & 5- (Yes). Okay. Now for discussion.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 3 page 2
Kubby/Maybe we can discuss them separately. We might have different views on- I move
that we defer item 4 until December 17th.
Norton/I second that motion.
Nov/It has been moved and seconded CKubby/Norton) that we defer item 4 to the 17th.
Any discussion?
Kubby/The main reason we are deferring this is that we don't really understand it and we
feel like we should understand it before we vote on it.
Nov/We are going to get some more info~nation before the next meeting on exactly how
many households are affected by either move.
Kubby/And actually Ernie during the break, Doug made a suggestion that maybe we
could have five examples that are of different types of situations, that we see the
affects on those households and that wouldn't be a huge workload for you for the
next meeting.
Boothroy/Yeah, ! can put together some flip charts or something for you to look at and
see how we compute through this stuff.
Kubby/It would just be real concrete information to look at specific cases.
Norton/And a feel of how many are involved.
Boothroy/Right. ! will get a ballpark on numbers.
Not, oral How rough it is.
Vanderhoef/And then those other two questions that we talked about earlier of whether it
is possible or not.
Boothroy/Right. Right.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 3 page 3
Nov/We should really tell the folks at home what we are talking about. We are talking
about a resolution authorizing new allowances for the utilities in our Housing
Authority Programs. The Voucher and Ce~lificate Programs have allowances for
utilities. We are talking about changing those allowances and that vote is going to
be deferred to the 17th of December if we approve this motion. So, all in favor
please say aye- ~,ayes). Motion carries. This item will be on the agenda on the 17th.
Item #5 is a resolution authorizing the adoption of the revised Voucher Payment
Standards for the Housing Authority Voucher Program and-
Vanderhoet71 have additional questions on that also. Since, the way the resolution is
written right now, it is to be retroactive to October 1 and we are already into the
contract season into the January and February one. I would like to know how
many contracts are to be redone, the number of staff hours that this would take
and the cost of that staff hours to take it back to October 1 whereas we could
possibly approve this for February I without having to do any of this.
Nov/The question there is-
Norton/Isn't there a countervailing cost if you do it that way, though?
Nov/Yeah, the countervailing cost is for the person who is using the voucher because
they won't get this extra allowance until next October.
Vanderhoef/Well they could get it-
Nov/Not until they have a new lease.
Venderhoer/That is right.
Norton/Contract run October 1 to October 1, is that fight, Doug?
Boothroy/You could adjust the Voucher Payment Standard once a year and the reason
we choose October 1 is because that is when HUD publishes the new Fair Market
Rent. So that is the earliest we can adjust. If we establish it at a different date like
February 1, then if FMRs go up again next year on October 1, we would have to
wait until February in which to make that adjustment. So, it makes it easier if we
keep that adjustment closest to October 1 as possible so that we don't get into a
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#3
page 4
situation where there is a larger and larger gap there. The other thing is is the
number of contracts, I don't know the number of hours but I do know that the
number of contracts is someplace between 83 and 90 something. So that it is real
dose to that number. It is less than 100 but it is right around 83 to something like
that. So- When you are dealing with the Voucher Program in talking to the staff
about th/s, I put this question to them, Dee, you know, this is going to mean extra
work, is it-do you really want to do tNs, we have a lot of other things we need to
do, we are short staffed, etc., and they felt that they wanted to make that effort to
keep it as close to October I as possible or keep in on October I and give the
people that chance to realize that difference in the Voucher Payment Standard. So
they think they can do it and still meet the other objectives of the program.
Vanderhoef/Doug, do you think it is realistic to be getting your figures every October
from the federal government and then knowing in advance that-
[TAPE PROBLEMS]
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-140 SIDE 1
Vanderhoeff Can't turn it around and get it to council and get it approved and so fourth. It
would seem to me that there should be a pattern here at some point in time that we
say okay, we know we received this information from the federal government in
October and it would behoove us to set say December I or January I to be the
time that we will implement it and at that point the council will have had the
opportunity to act on it and we won't be paying salaries to do jobs twice.
Boothroy/Well, you can do that. I mean, the fact of the matter is is that the preliminary
FMRs were lower than the ones that were actually published after the fact. So, by
the time we get it to the Commission, we are already looking at the November
meeting and here we are in December. So the sequence-
Vanderhoeff I understand that. All I am saying is at some point in time should we not bite
the bullet and make an effective date other than October I because next October
we are going to have the same thing happen to us. It just doesn't seem reasonable
to me to pay staff to do this 2-3 times, every year, every year and every year.
Boothroy/It doesn't change every year. This is- We have had very little change in FMR
rates. There was a change a year or so ago or two years ago but didn't affect our
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#3
page 5
adjustment of the Voucher Payment Standard. And this is the first time, I can't
give you a number Dee but I would say in a halfa dozen years that we have had
any significant increase. So, even though the opportunity is to change it every
October 1, it doesn't in effect has not been changing every October 1.
Thomberry/This is an additional $147,733 over and above what it was prior to this
change. Is that correct?
Boothroy/That is correct.
Boothroy/If all of the contract rents were maximized at the new Voucher Payment
Standard.
Kubby/But their rents are locked in if people currently have a current rent.
Boothroy/Yeah, they are locked in. We can't change- Well, what we do is we provide a
credit in the future. So when we go back to those people that had already signed
leases after October 1, we then send a credit for their February or March rent so
that they get back to- So they realize that savings.
Kubby/Since we don't do each year, we say bite the bullet, it is really the tenant who is
going to be biting it.
Boothroy/It will take extra work. Dee is right, it does take extra work on our part. But
they felt strongly that they wanted to make that effort.
Vanderhoeff I would still like to know how much it is costing the city to go back and do
that. How many staff hours we are talking about?
Boothroy/I am sure 83 hours is pretty close.
Thomberry/Doug, I have one additional question. This is an increase of $147,733. What
is it increased from?
Boothroy/I would have to get you the ACC contract. I can get that number for you. I just
don't know what it is. It is- Well, as I mentioned earlier this evening, it is
someplace between probably $1 1/2-2 million on Voucher Program.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 3 page 6
Thornbereft On the Voucher Program. It is increasing another $147,733.
Boothroy/That is what it would cost us and the way we adjust that is we adjust that
annually. It could have some impact on the number of families served but as I
indicated earlier, because of the 25% turnover rate, because not everybody is
going to be at the upper end of the Voucher Payment Standard, we probably won't
cost us $147- That is just a worse case scenario. I don't want to call it worse case
but that is the maximum that we could cost the program on the new Voucher
Payment Standard. So I think the only thing about deferring this is if you defer it to
the 17th, if you decide to send it back to the Housing Commission for any reason,
then ifwe are still looking at October 1, you need to understand that in that
decision making process you are going to be looking at going back to the
Commission in January, getting back to you late January, we are already into
March and April contracts. And so right now it is only 83 contracts. I am going to
be standing before you on the 17th if we are going back to October 1. I don't
want to see it get pushed back so that now we are talking about 100 and some
contracts. You understand what I am saying. The more you defer it, the more
work it is to go back to October 1 and you really do lock yourself into going
forward.
Nov/I think if we are going to increase this, we may as well do it today. If you have
questions about whether or not it should increase, that is another thing to delay.
Vanderhoef/I have questions along that line, too.
Thornberry/I do, too. You know, $1 1/2 million and then you are adding another $147,7-
Nov/That is-
Thornberry/It is still $147,000.
Baker/Just for clarification, Doug. That increase, where is it coming from? We say it is an
increase, but where does it come from?
Boothroy/If we were paying out the entire increase of the Voucher Payment Standard,
then it would be drawn down against our budget, in effect. So if all of the clients
that are getting vouchers were getting that full assistance, we could be in the
situation that we would come up short by $147,000. That is not going to happen.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//3
page 7
It just simply isn't going to happen. It never has happened. We don't- Our average
contract rent typically doesn't reflect the Voucher Payment Standard, the
maximum.
Kubby/Right plus you have turnover and there are months when it is not used because
someone just got it and they are looking for a place.
Boothroy/Right.
Kubby/It is not 100% utilization 100% of the time.
Boothroy/It will cost us more but I don't think it will cost us the $147,000. It is
somewhat- You know, it is difficult to project because we don't know what those
lease amounts are going to be. We can't give you an exact dollar amount. All we
can tell you is what it would potentially cost us if everything was paid out to the
maximum.
Baker/Those are funds fi'om the federal government?
Boothroy/HUD. So the way we adjust that is we adjust back to the number of families
served.
Nov/And the money that we are talking about is from HUD, correct?
Boothroy/Right. The, I think Karen mentioned earlier, a lot of this comes out of our
reserve accounts now. We have several million dollars in both reserve accounts in
the Certificate and Voucher Programs and the way has been handling that is they
have been having us draw against our reserve account instead of giving us new
dollars. They are using dollars that we have saved in the past by being less than
100% to continue the program, to continue those contracts.
Vanderhoef/And that money is going to be drawn down to zero?
Boothroy/Well, it is going to be drawn down. I don't know if it will get down to zero
because at some point we are going to be able to renew.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#3
p~e8
Norton/If we defer this until the 17th, can we conclude action on that? Can we get
information and can we hear from the Commission in time to take action on the
17t h?
Nov/The Commission has already made this recommendation.
Norton/Are we going to ask them to do anymore?
Nov/No, I don't see the need to do that. This is their recommendation. We can change
the recommendation from the Commission or we can use it.
Kubby/Is there more discussion tonight? Then if not, I move that we adopt this
resolution.
Baker/Second.
Nov/Okay. It has been moved by Kubby, seconded by Baker that we adopt the resolution
authorizing the revised Voucher Payment Standards. Is there any further
discussion?
Vanderhoef/I would move that we-
Baker/There is already a motion on the floor.
Vanderhoeff Amend this motion to put February 1 instead of October I for the effective
date.
Nov/Is there a second? No second.
Vanderhoef/That is fine.
Nov/Are we ready to vote on the adoption of this resolution?
Lehman/I would just like to say I share some of your concerns about this, Dee, and I
think there are ways we could make it more clear to the council and can be
presented in a way we can understand better. You work with this everyday, Doug.
You understand it like the back of your hand. And I think our hesitancy to pass it
tonight is really more than anything else, lack of understanding You know, what
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996,
F120396
# 3 page 9
does it really mean, what does it cost, why are the effective dates and whatever.
And as much as I agree with your thinking, I won't vote to defeat this because I
think I am starting to catch onto what you are saying and I think a February I date
is going to really increase your workload. You are going to have a lot more
contracts by 1 February-
Vanderhoe~t No, that isn't what ! am asking.
Thomberry/If in fact we do go back to-
Kubby/It would be just for the current.
Vanderhoef/It would be eliminating all the extra work is what it would be doing.
Lehman/Oh, you would eliminate the contracts in between from what he has already
done?
Vanderhoef/They have already lived there and paid the rents that was appropriate for
that-
Kubby/But they won't get the benefit.
Norton/But they are not getting the adjustment that they might have gotten.
Thornberry/Right, that is correct.
Norton/That is what is suffering.
Thornberry/If indeed it de,% pass.
Vanderhoef/And it is going to be a double cost in that we are paying extra for all of the
staff time to do this and we don't even know what that figure it.
Kubby/But those people are being paid to do their jobs and have said that they can work
it out to not let anything that they are currently doing fall behind to take this on
because they feel it is important for the tenants that they serve that are customers
in this program That means a lot to me. Those people work really hard over there
and they are willing to do this for the good of the tenant.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#3
page 10
Thomberry/I would do it for overtime, too.
Norton/Why move until February? Why are you concerned with February?
Thomberry/Not having to redo old contracts.
Norton/Why not January?
Vanderhoef/Because those are already done. They have already done the January
contracts. They work so far in advance. That is the problem and that is why I
would like to see us get into a system that if it is changed on October 1, then we
have a two month-
Nov/You are discussing a motion that didn't even have a second. Would you like to
propose another date?
Vanderhoef/Well, we could propose January I and see if anyone else is interested in the
effective date of January 1.
Thomberry/I will second January 1.
Nov/Okay. We have a motion to amend this resolution to change the effective date from
October 1, 1996 to January 1, 1997. Is there any discussion of that date? Okay.
We need a vote on the amendment. All in favor, please say aye- (ayes: Vanderhoef,
Thomberry). All opposed same sign- (ayes: Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Norton, Nov).
I think the negative vote carded on that one.
We are back to the resolution. Are we ready to vote? Roll call- The motion carded
on a 5-1 (No: Thornberry, Vanderhoe0. The resolution adopting it carried on a 5-
2 vote.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page I
ITEM NO. 4 PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Nov/Public discussion for items that are not on the agenda. We ask that you sign in or use
the label with your name and address and lirait your comments to no longer than 5
minutes.
Carol de Prosse/I am here to keep the Eric Shaw killing of Augast 30 on the city
council's agenda. I don't have a lot to say. Actually I just have some questions
primarily and then maybe a comment or two at the end and I guess maybe, Naomi,
you could answer and I assume you are standing in or sitting in for Linda tonight.
So, if you can answer them, that is fine. Sometimes I think ifl had one of those
good citizenship awards that maybe I wouldn't be here doing something like this
but I don't feel as though the city council has adequately yet addressed this issue
and so I am here. Could you please tell me briefly, Mayor Novick, what Bruce
Walker did to earn the $12,000 that the city has paid him through the end of
October in representing Officer Gillaspic?
Nov/I cannot give you specifics. I don't even know that Dennis can. He sent his hours
and his list of accomplishments that I did not actually read it.
Mitchell/He did send us an itemized bill. Off the top of my head I probably can't tell you
exactly what the major items were on that.
de Prosse/What might he do? I mean ] know that he would represent in person Gillaspic
for example when Pat White did his questioning of him but at many hours that still
would be a ton of money. So, that questioning didn't take too long and I know he
would probably meet with him some before hand and maybe some afterward but
what else might have he done to-
Mitchell/I am sure he has done some research into this area of the law. I think, you know,
there has probably been quite a few meetings with the client and also maybe
meetings with the DCI, dift~rent things like that. I haven't actually looked
personally at his itemized statement that he submitted.
de Prosse/Is that available to the public to see that as an item that is included as a- I
forget what they are called now but- Accounts payable or whatever that is?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 2
Mitchell/It may- Because it could be involved in matters that are in litigation, that is
something we can check on though. And if it is something we don't feel is there is
anything confidential or that could have a negative impact on litigation.
de Prosse/Well I certainly don't want to necessarily know that they talked about. I would
like to know what he did to earn his $12,000 plus dollars.
Mitchell/I am sure he did.
de Prosse/Oh, I am sure he did it. What I would like to know is what he did to earn the
$12,000.9
Nov/There are probably somethings in there that cannot be public information. But
whatever is public information, Dennis will find out.
de Prosse/And then another thing that I would like to know is why is the city paying a
attorney for the insurance company. What is the- Why do we pay the attorney's
salary for the insurance company?
Nov/We don't.
de Prosse/I thought we paid three thousand and some odd dollars for an attorney to
represent the insurance company. It was at least in the Iowa City Press Citizen that
we had done that.
Mitchell/Well then it would've been inaccurate. The insurance company actually hires
their own at:omeys and the only thing we would pay would be our premiums to
the insurance comt,any.
de Prosse/Well if you want to pay out on those premiums you better pay them. That's for
sure, or on the policy. So we are not paying any money from the city at all to an
attorney to represent the interests of the insurance company in this matter?
Mitchell/No, we would not.
de Prosse/Okay. Then I would like to know why has the city hired one or perhaps two
private investigators? What are they doing and what are we paying them to do
what they are doing?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcriptiou of tile Iowa Ciiy council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#4 p~e3
Nov/I don't think we have- I think that was a conversation at one point, but I don't think
we did it. Dennis, can you confirm?
Mitchell/I believe it was just talked about, but as far as I know, a private investigator has
never been hired by the city or on behalf of the city.
de Prosse/I would just then have a little comment here that doesn't quite fit into the
questions that I just asked, but I would like to know if the city council, when they
make their, or I would like to request that when the City Council makes its
appointment to the Human Relations Commission, that it acknowledges with great
gratitude the role that Osha Davidson played on that commission and the council's
regret that he's had to resign over an issue like this, because I thinks that's very
sad and his obvious achievements and intelligence and sensitivity has let~ over this
matter. I guess the only other little comment I have is that I would like to know if
members of the council read the article in last night's Press Citizen by John
Kinnamon?
No~offNo.
de Prosse/Because ifyou have not and I see some of you shaking your heads and some of
you acting puttied, I would definitely encourage you to read it because I think it
deals with a matter that is going to cause the city considerable grief in the months
ahead about its handling of the event of August 30. And I say the city because it
was a city employee that killed Eric Shaw. And I think it's going to come back and
haunt the city and specifically it relates to the failure of the Police Department to
have obtained his argument, John Kinnamon's argument, to have obtained a search
warrant before they entered the building, and that there are limited instances in
which a police officer can enter a building without a search warrant. That ifl'm
reading the argument correctly, he is one attorney who is speaking to the fact that
he does not believe those circumstances existed and indeed it was an illegal search
and intrusion upon Eric Shaw's private space that night. Which leads me to
another question that since some of you haven't read the article some of you could
argue the 4th Amendment better than I can although I think the points made in this
article were very clear, but I think as it relates to previous events, we need to ask
ourselves why the police were in the Dodge Street Cleaners building prior- a
couple of nights prior to the killing of Eric Shaw because I don't think they had a
search warrant to be inside his building. And ill understand his story correctly, he
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#4
page 4
came down because his burglar alarm or some such thing went off and found
police officers in his place of building and they pulled a gun on him and the events
that we are familiar of ensue. Because this would be at least if the arguments are
correct and upheld by a court, 'this would be two instances in which Iowa City
police entered a person's building or attempted to enter it. I guess he didn't even
have to get a foot inside the door to kill Eric Shaw, but entered a building without
a warrant and without apparent justification to do so. So-
Kubby/Another question we might ask is, if the alarm is fed into the Police Department, is
that agreement that that happens implying that permission to enter the building
when the alarm goes off.
de Prosse/I think that's certainly right.
Kubby/1 don't know the answer but it is the question to ask.
de Prosse/Right. t think that would certainly be one question among many. But I think
that what it leads to is back to the public discussion that you had the first time you
met after the killing of Eric Shaw in which many people stood up and I know that
to the Shaw's, it's small potatees what some of those people were talking about,
but it still nonetheless was a general indictment by some segment of the community
of tactics and procedures of the Police Department. Some of those would be far
less threatening in my mind than someone who is taking a clear violation of a fight
granted in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. So it would cause me to
hope that the council then might rethink its lack of initiative on this issue and have
some perhaps discussion. 1 know one time when I spoke Mayor Novick asked me
what I might suggest and I still might suggest that you have, convene among
yourselves a discussion of this matter so that those of us who pay taxes and help
pay your salaries and keep this building and the streets alive and will review plans
for a new Taco Bell in Old Capitol Mall tonight and give the Citizenship Award
and all those other kinds of things, will have some idea of whether you still
consider this to be an issue, at what level you still consider it to be an issue, what
you intend to do about it if anything in the face of new evidence or information
that might be presented to you on this information, and do you continue to discuss
it and talk about it among yourselves because it is a very real issue.
Baker/Carol, you're well aware that one of the things that we're doing now is we're in
the process putting together a Citizens' Review Board, Police Citizens' Review
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#4
p~e5
Board. And in addition to handling specific complaints that will arise in the future,
we have already discussed the fact that we would like, I think we would like to
see, that board to look at this particular incident and the policies in place leading
up to this particular incident· So we haven't ignored it. We setting up a process to
do a formal review with the Citizen Review Board of that particular issue. And a
lot of these questions that you've raised tonight will come up again.
de Prosse/But I think the question is what authority does the Citizens' Review Board
have? What authority does the City Council have and why would you necessarily
be putting it weeks and months later in the hands of a Citizens' Review Board
rather than addressing it and confronting it yourselves as a council whicli is what
your responsibility as you know representatives of us is to do? It's not to put it in
the hands of someone lesser than yourselves who has less authority than you do if
you have anything to do about it. Suppose they should decide that if you know
violated the 4th Amendment. A bunch of lay people sit around and discuss that and
decide that and they decide that he violated all the rules and policies and
procedures of the Police Department. A bunch of lay people sit around and do
that. And then what?
Baker/Carol, with all due respect.
de Prosse/What authority do they have?
Baker/With all due respect, I think you're potentially trivializing that group of people that
we're going to put together. Tfivializing-
de Prosse/Because I am. Not tfivializing the people, I'm trivializing the action of the
council because it seems to me that you're passing off on the hands of other people
something you should be doing yourselves·
Baker/I think your tfivializing the process that we're trying to set up to handle something
like this and we will be doing that in conjunction with them, Carol.
de Prosse/Right. So they have to meet. They convene. They have to drat~ their by-laws.
They have to do all their business. They have to get to know each other. They
have to understand their charge. So maybe in 1999 or the year 2000 we could have
a report from the Citizens' Review Board.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#4 p~e6
Baker/(Talking in background while de Prosse talking). Come on. Come on.
de Prosse/1'!o, really.
Nov/That's enough. We've allowed this discussion to go well beyond five minutes. I
would like to add one more thing. This particular commission, this board, will try
to review all police procedures, not to concentrate on a single case but to review
police procedures and all complaints against the police on any issue in the future.
de Prosse/I am only interested in the killing of Eric Shaw now.
Nov/But we as a council cannot discuss this now based on the fact that it is currently a
lawsuit and we limited.
de Prosse/I thought that they had only filed a claim against the city and that there was no
lawsuit filed yet. But you know more than I do if it's in litigation.
Nov/Well there is an official-
Thomberry/Potential for litigation is there.
de Prosse/There's been a potential for litigation before the event ever occurred.
Nov/Yes, there is an official claim. There is an official request for federal intervention.
de Prosse/That came at the request of the Shaws.
Nov/Right.
Thomberry/How could there be litigation-?
de Prosse/Showing the real concern of the city that there might be more to the matter
than what Pat White had to say about it.
Kubby/There could be more discussion on our level about what happened, what other
policies that affected that particular kind of situation that we could hone in on
now. That we could do that, the majority has decided that we don't even want to
critique our behavior around this issue.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 7
de Prosse/That's what I want to keep heating is that the majority of the council has
decided that they don't want to critique their own behavior around the issue and a
majority of the council has decided that they really choose not to take the issue on
but to but it in the hands of the Citizens' Review Board and come what may.
That's basically many of us read it, not just me.
Lehman/Carol, I don't really feel that's true, at least not from my perspective. It seems to
me and I speak for one council person. We received advice from our own attorney.
The case was handled in a fashion that was deemed appropriate by the legal
community. It was turned over to the DCI. It was turned over to our own internal
investigation. It was then turned over to Pat White. And once it was turned over,
we really, well obviously we are not at all happy or we wouldn't be talking about a
Police Board. I mean we feel that we need a group that is responsible to the
council and the City Manager is responsible to the council and the Police Chief to
the City Manager. So if we get the sort of folks that we're talking about, and I
think we will, and I would much rather take a little time and put it together right
with the right people and do a good job, than to huny up with the get something
hurriedly done and then end up wishing we hadn't done it like that.
Kubby/Although we did change our policies about treating commercial areas within-
de Prosse/Right.
Kubby/-door while it was in the hands of the County Attorney, so there is some
contradiction in there.
Lehman/Well except-
Kubby/In our actions in your statement.
Lehman/Well, we didn't.
Kubby/But there was a policy change-
de Prosse/The chief of police has made some changes, but it may have come from the
council but Karen's right, so there are, you know there's an inherent contradiction.
Well you know I mean, I know the arguments have been made, but what I am
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//4
page 8
saying is that unless someone like me comes down and at least begins to engage
you in conversation, the community doesn't have a clue that you're still alive on
this issue. I may be wrong on this, but it's my understanding that someone had to
come in and basically encourage some of you to step out and pay some respect at
the vigil two weeks ago. That you didn't want to come out on your own and yet
the press then gave you coverage for having come out and attended and made a
appearance at the vigil. And when I came in then at the vigil and I do appreciate
the effort made to postpone the other things than went on to allow the people at
the vigil to speak first. I mean that was very nice. But during that period of time
that we were waiting I did see council members engaged in conversation either
with other council members or members of the staff.. And you know it was a very
serious reason we were here and it was not very attractive at least to me to see
some of you not, I'm not going to accuse anybody of falling on the ground
laughing, but I could tell you were joking between yourselves and so forth before
the meeting started while we were standing you know in silent testimony to
someone who had been killed by an employee of this city. So I guess I just
probably wasn't going to take you to task for that but I would like to think in my
way of thinking that you asked for it by arguing with me tonight.
Nov/Carol, would you be able to stay later because we are going to have a discussion of
the Police Citizens Review Board. You might be interested in staying.
de Prosse/Well you know I might be, it's just that for me the Citizens Review Board and I
just I mean- I'll come down and get a copy of the proposal or something because I
don't feel- I mean it's your responsibility to put it together. And ifyou're going to
put it together and charge it fully and completely with 100% complete
investigation first off foremost the top item on the agenda and get right to it about
what happened on August 30 of this year, then that's one thing.
Thomberry/It's probably not going to happen.
de Prosse/Right. Now that's an honest- thank you. I mean I don't think that is going to
happen. Thank you. I mean that's right. 1 mean we all know what reality is and we
all know what politics and we all know what all the interchange is and all of this
kind of stuff and it's not going to happen. Suppose your Citizens' Review
Commission came up with that everything was messed up from beginning to end
over a long period oftime. Council members have to seriously consider, you then,
who's responsible for that. Are you responsible for that? Is Steve Atkins
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 9
responsible for that'?. Is the Chief of Police responsible for that? Well it might take
more than your Citizens' Review Committee to be telling you this stuff. You
should be talking about it among yourselves. ! elected some of you and a lot of
people elected all of you and it's your responsibility to be doing it.
Kubby/The bottom line is, you need four votes to make something happen and we don't
have them.
de Prosse/Thank you.
Baker/But Karen, something is happening.
Kubby/Not in the way Carol's talking about.
Council/(All talking).
Baker/- the public to believe we're not doing anything. I don't say that's what you're
saying, but we are proceeding to form a Citizens' Review Board.
Kubby/But one aspect which is not the topic of what Carol was talking about.
Baker/Karen, now shh. And we're going to review that board in conjunction with us is
going to review this incident and talk about those policies and look at them.
Kubby/We'll see if there are tour votes to authorize the board to do that. I don't know if
that's clear in my mind because that has been brought up in the past and there
weren't a majority of people to do that. I hope that's true.
Baker/One of the things that happens I think in our discussions is very otten that people-
Nov/Let's move on please.
Baker/-don't establish a clear position even though they've got one. I think there are four
votes there. If I'm wrong, I will apologize to the public.
Nov/Please go ahead.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120.~96
# 4 page 10
Jay Shaw/It may take a little more than five minutes. I'm going to use some of my son's
time. Crimes after the time. On the night of August 30, our son Eric Shaw was
sitting in his well lit shop, his home away from home for 12 years, talking on the
phone to his friend in Des Moines. The door was open an inch or two. Before that
night, not one person, not one person in this state or this city would thought a
police officer could open the door to kill you. Policeman Kelsey was walking down
the well lit alley and saw the door ajar. there was a light right above the door.
Kelsey saw that there was no marks on the door, though he lied about it later. The
deadbolt was in which meant that door had been opened with a key. The police
training manual states that the most common cause ofan open door is that the
owner or employee has left it open. Kelsey did not take time to listen carefully at
the door or look carefully through the window. Policeman Cfillaspie and Zacharias
were driving by and Kelsey ran out to the street and flagged them down. Gillaspie
allowed Kelsey to hurry him into a horribly dangerous action. In less than 49
seconds, all three officers were positioned outside Eric's door. Kelsey was off to
one side. Zacharias was off to the other side. And Gillaspic was directly in front of
the door. All three had there guns drawn. Inside Eric was sitting with his tan phone
in his hand in the shop where he had created nearly 200 sculptures surrounded by
his tools. The phone cord was stretched out from his hand to the wall phone by the
door. The lights were on. it was as bright as day. He was safe. He felt safe in a
place he had spent thousands of hours in his shop, his sanctuary. Outside, the three
officers were whispering to each other, working out their plan of attack. Gillaspie
whispered to Kelsey that there are lights in there. Gillaspic motioned impatiently
for Gillaspic to go on in. Eric looked up in shock and fear at the sight of a
policeman aiming a gun at his chest. My son had time to say, what's going on and
gasped in fear before the bullet ripped through his body. Eric's friend heard Eric
screaming in pain and horror. He heard Eric's final gasp for breath. He heard his
friend often years dying as he listened on the phone. Because Dave heard Eric's
dying screams, his mother and I hear them. Does this city hear them? Murder is the
only word that fits the horror that these policemen did to Eric and Eric's family.
The police half-lies and lies began immediately. The lied to Eric friend when he
called to find out what had happened to Eric. They lied to the media through
Patrick White over four hours after the killing. Over four hours after the killing,
the County Attorney told the media that the police were still looking for the gun.
What gun? The one that they wanted to plant on Eric's body7 At least three police
officers changed their statements over time until they agreed with what went on in
there. Does that sound like lying? Patrick White and the media haven't even
bothered to notice this ugly fact. Some of the officers involved in the killing or
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#4
page 11
investigated the killing told the truth. Some lied and some were allowed to change
their statements. But because the police were investigating their own crime
initially, and because the DCI did not challenge those lies, eventually those lies
won out. Chief Winklehake's immediate response to the killing was that the
officers were following correct procedures and he did not see any reason to change
those procedures. Our son was killed by two ofhls officers and he saw nothing
wrong with those actions? The City Manager gave immediate and unqualified
support to the chief The two of them changed the police policies only after two
weeks of public pressure forced them to take action. They showed no moral
backbone whatsoever. Neither the Police Chief nor the City Manager ever spoke
one word of criticism of the actions of those who killed our son. Many people in
this city and this state have turned against us because we have asked what any
parent would ask, that their sons murderers be punished. You see Eastern Iowa,
there is not some magic quality about being murdered by a policeman that makes it
okay. You think Eric felt any less agony as he bled to death on his floor because he
knew it was a policeman's bullet that caught up in his heart. You think it helps us
to know that a policeman murdered our son? It just makes it more of a despicable
crime and it must be punished as would any other murder. You see, Eastern Iowa,
we are not one bit different from all those parents of murdered children that you
have seen depicted in news accounts who're asking that their murdered children,
asking or demanding punishment of those who murdered their children. The
difference is in your minds Eastern Iowa, in your mind because although it is
tragic, it is okay from a legal standpoint for a policeman to murder just because
they are policemen because they are symbols of protection. We, we have received
ugly letters and rude treatment. We have to have people read our mail. We cannot
open our own mail. We have to have someone read our mail now before we can
open our letters. The calls and letters to the media are running in favor of our son's
killer. I feel as though I am living in a country that I don't even recognize,
surrounded by people who have no sense of justice whatsoever and no interest in
the truth. Employees ofthis city killed our son in an action that is so grossly
negligent that I still cannot believe it happened in the USA. People of this city have
accepted our son's murder with barely a tipple of protest and the City Council has
refused to fire the men responsible for our son's death. The most devastating of
the crimes after the crimes has been the failure of the people of this city and this
state to speak up for the prosecution of these policemen, these murderers.
Everybody just wants it to be over, to forget Eric's murder and get back thinking
that this is a wonderful little city. All you have to do is ignore that one little killing
and the injustice that followed. There's a large reservoir of tolerance for the police
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#4
page 12
in the general public's mind which protects individual policemen even when they
engage in criminal behavior. In this country we are much to willing to allow our
policemen to convince us that they did nothing wrong and that they are not
criminals even when they kick open a door and kill someone. With the failure to
prosecute our son's murderers the City of Iowa City and the State of Iowa have
given their police a license to kill without consequence. This is a guarantee of a
degenerating police force and a degenerated relationship with the community. Just
the fact that the police seem to be unanimous in their approval of the failure to
prosecute this killing should raise a red flag of suspicion. Why are the police
supporting officers who displayed the grossest of gross negligence possible? And
why does the public not see this support as dangerous? When police cannot see
criminal behavior in their midst it is obvious that something is terribly wrong. The
police have been allowed too long to investigate their own criminality and they
have grown arrogant in their disregard for the law and for justice when it is applied
to police officers. This police arrogance also distorts policemen as human beings.
The police in this city allowed their blind suppor~ of two fellow officers to involve
them in another of the crimes after the crime, the torturing of the Shaw family. The
Iowa City police knew from the second that the shot was fired that Eric had made
no threatening moves, that it was his shop, that the area was well lit, that there was
no report of a burglary, that there were no signs of a burglary, that there was no
threat at all to anyone, and that the entire operation took 49 seconds. They knew
that the officers had taken no precautions at all to ensure the safety of an
authorized person in the building. The police would say nothing. They allowed one
vicious speculation after another to circulate in the media and the community.
They protected themselves and tortured us for weeks and weeks and weeks. The
Iowa City police claimed that they had to wait for the DCI report. That is
nonsense. They could're released the facts that were not in dispute. The only
critical fact which the DCI determined was that the murder weapon was
functioning properly. The Iowa City police released no information because it
served their purposes. For this despicable crime alone, the Chief of Police and City
Manager should be kicked out of their jobs. The lack of concern which the entire
police force and the Iowa City Council has displayed for Eric's life for our
suffering in the months since the police killed was obscene. The city cannot wash
its collective hands ofthis murder and do nothing for Eric, for his family. The City
Council can still redeem itself. A citizen board with real power to investigate police
actions and procedures is long overdue. If such a board had been in existence, it
would've caught the pattern of disregard for public safety exhibited by the police
in the months before Eric was killed and might have saved our son's life. The
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#4
p~e13
people who had guns on them by the police under Winklehake's command
would've had somewhere to take their complaints b~sides the police themselves.
But a review board now, now, does nothing for Eric. Nothing, nothing, nothing,
nothing for Eric. Got it? A review board does nothing, nothing, n¢,thing, nothing
for Eric now. You people are the only ones who could do something for Eric. We
still hope that at least the system can but you people can do something and I'm
going to get to that. So far the only people who have suffered real consequences in
this murder have been Eric and his family. Murders should have real consequences
for those who murder and those who contribute to murder. Gillaspic wasn't even
fired. He was allowed to resign. So far, everyone has found it easy to put
themselves in Gillaspie's shoes and Winklehake's shoes, and even Kelsey's shoes
and make excuses for them and feel for them, but how many people could put
themselves in Eric's shoes. To do that you have to see Gillaspie's gun pointed at
you. You have to feel the bullet dpping into your chest. And to put yourself in our
shoes, you have to think that it was one of your children who has been murdered.
And the legal system has said to you, sorry, this murder does not count. I tell you
that your tolerance for injustice would disappear. I ask that you read my wife's
statement, Eric's shoes, to realize that if you had put yourselves in Eric's shoes,
you would not have acted as you did. What the City Council can do for Eric now
is what they should've done over two months ago, fire the Chief of Police who
instituted the dangerotis policies which contributed to our son's killing. Our son's
death happened on the chief's watch. He is responsible. He should be fired. It will
take a new Chief with vision and moral fiber to rebuild this police force. The City
Manager's unthinking support of the chief and his lack of moral leadership after
our son's killing should be enough cause for the City Council to fire Mr. Atkins as
well. Policeman Kelsey should ofcourse be fired. The city is tromping on our
son's grave by keeping this man on the force. He should be discharged for gross
negligence which contributed to a death. Most disturbing is Mr. Kelsey's
conteotion that he finds nothing wrong with his actions that night. Kelsey's
statement in the internal review that the only cause he can see for Eric's killing is
that statistics caught up with us shows a calculating callous man who should not be
a policeman for one more second. This man also stated in the internal review, as he
looked at my wife laying in the dirt of the alley, he told another officer that
Zacharias should not see this. Zacharias was sitting in the car in front of me. The
two officers involved, two of the officers involved in this killing were still on the
scene when my wife and I drove up. Kelsey was guarding my warehouse. Kelsey
was still guarding my warehouse. What's the matter with the police? Why did they
leave two of the people involved on the scene? Kelsey had access to my warehouse
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996,
F120396
//4
page 14
after the crime. The man who was involved in it. Probably the man who made it
happen, the man who pushed it along, the man who opened the door, the man who
moved some things was allowed access. And he was there. As he looked at my
wife laying in the dirt of the alley, he told another officer that Zacharias should not
see this, that he should not have to see it either. Eric's mother could not hold
herself up and had fallen to the ground as she looked at the door behind which she
knew her beloved son lay dead. She had seen the policeman grab me as I tried to
mn to Eric and she was crawling an inch at a time toward her dead son and
sobbing that she wanted to get as close to Eric as she could. Mr. Kelsey's only
concern was uncomfortable this horrible sight made him feel. I now remember
Kelsey's cold face. I looked at each one ofthose policemen before I left and I said,
I hope a policeman calls you in the middle of the night and tells you that they have
murdered your son. I went down all of them. Kelsey was the last one. When I got
done I realized what I had said, that ! was wishing that five fathers and five
mothers would feel this horror and I said I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. I
just wanted you to feel our pain. I hope they heard that. I don't know if this story
has circulated, but I hope they heard that. I did say all of that, but I take it back. l
did not mean it. I don't want five other people to suffer this way. I now remember
Kelsey's cold face. I know he was positioned in front of my wife on the other side
of the barrier. I now know that it was he that said to Eric mother's stop laying in
the din. Is this the kind of man you want on your police force, Iowa City? The fact
that Winklehake did not discharge Kelsey is reason enough by itselfto fire
Winklehake. The City Council should stop supporting the man who brought this
horrible tragedy to our family and ,,;Jr city. What can the people of Iowa do? They
can put pressure on their City Council members to take the actions I outlined.
They can speak out for an investigation of this murder by the FBI and for
prosecution of these officers by the US Attorney. We do not give to anybody else
the privilege of investigating their own crimes. We Jnust stop giving policemen
privileges they are bound to abuse. Walking away from this injustice will not end
this crime for the people of Iowa City. Everyone will pay a price, nowhere near
what Eric's family will have to pay, of course. But everyone who does nothing
about it will lose something. This ugly crime is allowed to stand unrecognized and
unpunished will eat away at people's faith and their society and their city and even
their faith in themselves. This murder is a defined moment in the city's life. Those
who walk away from this murder because it upsets them or because they are afraid
that it will upset someone who has power over them, run the risk of some day
thinking as themselves as cowards. Those of you who believe that you can forget
unpunished murder by a police officer may wake up to find that it has happened
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of Dece~nber 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 15
again to someone else, maybe even one of your own. Please take whatever steps
you can, no matter how small, to bring about justice for Eric and for this city.
Thank you.
John Weber/My name is John Weber. I am the owner of Jawbone Pedicab Company and I
stand here before you. I submitted a letter with your packet this week contesting
the insurance requirements for pedicabs.
Nov/Mr. Weber, would you be willing to wait until this item is on our agenda?
Webeft Yes.
Kubby/This item he is asking about is not on our agenda. There is another taxicab decals
item on our agenda, not insurance. Separate, right Marian?
Karr/I believe Mr. Weber is her regarding insurance and there is nothing before you this
evening on insurance.
Nov/The issue-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-140 SIDE 2
Nov/I understand. Go ahead.
Weber/Okay. In brief, the letter that I submitted it basically stated that the required rate
for pedicabs in Iowa City is the same as taxicabs in Iowa City and I don't think the
vehicles are comparably risky and I don't think that is a reasonable requirement. I
have here a picture ofa pedicab for those of you who aren't exactly sure what this
is. It is a seasonal job. It doesn't operate 365 days a year. It doesn't operate 24
hours a day much like a taxicab does. It doesn't move very fast. It is lit fairly well
and it won't operate in inclement weather. Does anyone have any questions over
what I had in the letter?
Baker/Are you required- Go ahead, Karen, I am sorry.
Kubby/I thought one of the reasons that we increased the insurance rate for taxicabs is
that more and more taxicab services were using larger vehicles and having more
persons in each vehicles and that was one of the rationales.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//4
page 16
Karr/No, we increased insurance based on a recommendation fi'om our Risk Manager in
1995. Those rates went into effect August of 1995, the new increased rates. Last
year, in 1996, when we brought it before you again, the issue was the larger
vehicles and we did add language to that same section, Karen, dealing with
insurance and clarified the issue often seats or more as being-
Kubby/So that was a separate insurance rate?
Karr/No, it was the same insurance rate. What we did in earlier this year, in January, was
not to change the rate at all. It was simply to clarify the size of the vehicle. These
rates have not changed since 1995.
Nov/And have you been operating since 19957
Weber/No, I didn't start operating until September of this year. At that time my lawyer
informed me that 1 was required to have $1 million in liability insurance and there
was a $500 deductible stipulated. When I was investigating operating in Iowa City,
the required rate at that time was a $500,000 liability insurance and no stipulated
deductible.
Nov/But that was before you started operating.
Weber/Yes.
Nov/So, you started under the current insurance rates?
Weber/Yes but I purchased the cabs in January almost at the same time that the rate was
changed. I had already-
Nov/No, what we are trying to say is that the rate changed in 1995 before you started.
Kubby/He did his cost projections and cost benefits to see if it was a good business under
the old rates. Purchased the cabs, then the rates changed and he was paying the
new rates.
Weber/That is correct.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 17
Kubby/And it is not working.
Nov/Okay, I understand.
Baker/My question is are we required to lump these all together?
Nov/Well, I don't know.
Karr/Based on the recommendation that we had at the time from the City Attorney's
Office and from our Risk Management Office, the concern was that all vehicles
that are for hire carrying passengers in the city would indeed be treated the same,
not just motorized vehicles. The concern was not the damage that the individual or
that the company may do to- It would be the reverse of the concern of the safety
of our citizens. I think the other issue involves one of just again, the definition of
treating all vehicles for hire the same.
Nov/1 am concerned also about the ability for the licensed driver of any old vehicle to not
be insured and my driver's insurance carries and extra set of funds for uninsured
drivers and I think that it is possibly the reason that your insurance rates should be
this high. Because you have to insure yourself and your passenger, both, for
uninsured drivers who may inadvertently hit you.
Weber/I don't think- I didn't see that in the ordinance that it was related as such.
Nov/Well-
Thornberry/If you were a contract for hire that we would- I wouldn't want to take your
pedicab, for example, across town and I would contract you to do tiffs. You would
not be under the same category as a taxicab. Is that correct?
Lehman/I think it is the same category, isn't it?
Karr/That is correct. It is correct if he enters into a lease for chartered transportation.
That is correct.
Nov/If you sign a separate contract.
Council/(All talking).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 18
Weber/(Can't hear) sign a contract each time I pick somebody up.
Norton/That would be too much paperwork.
Weber/If I carried a satchel with me.
Thornbeny/I mean sign here, sign on the X.
Nov/Okay, let's say you sign on the X. Let's say an uninsured driver hits this pedieab and
you lost the use of your legs or whatever. Who would pay it? You would have to
then say I have my own insurance and I will cover myself on this contract.
Baker/But what is the-
Thornberry/I contracted a pilot to fly me from point A to point B and chartered the plane
separately so it wouldn't fall under FAA regulations because of weather. I will
never do that again. But if, for example, I did that with you. Who would pay the
claim if we crashed? I don't know.
Nov/If an uninsured driver were injuring you and you were under contract with his
pedicab, you hired him, he doesn't have enough insurance and then what?
Kubby/But that is not- The issue is the level of liability that the pedicab has to have and
the quest of the matter is do we want to treat them the same as other vehicles to
hire or are we willing to think about treating pedicabs differently.
Baker/What is the city's interest in requiring them to be the same?
Kubby/Our Risk Manager is saying there is a comparable kind of risk.
Nov/Oh, to me there is a higher risk.
Lehman/Oh, I think we should revisit this. If it is not a big item. It is something that we
could look at real quickly I believe and get the rationale that was used in the first
place because it seems ridicules to charge him the same insurance-
Karr/The rationale was the safety of our citizens when they hire a vehicle for hire.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 19
Lehman/I appreciate that. But ifI am renting a limousine and I am renting a pedicab, I
think the possibility of injury to the people of Iowa City is substantially different
even though we are requiring the same insurance.
Karr/If you are renting it, you wouldn't need it either way.
Kubby/It is not so much that the pedicab is going to hit someone, the Risk Manager's
point is that if someone else hit the pedicab.
Karr/That is correct.
Nov/If you are in a limousine, you are a lot safer than if you are a passenger in a pedicab.
Kubby/We might decide to say that because of the benefits that a pedicab brings to the
city, we are willing- That even though we may agree or disagree with the Risk
Manager's position, that it is an important flavor that is added to the d.t. area. That
we are willing to go for a lower level of insurance so that there is still insurance,
still a half million dollars of insurance for an incident. But to allow this business to
be here.
Council/(All talking).
Thomberry/Didn't we have different insurance rates for that horse that was drawing the
little-
Lehman/It was not motorized.
Karr/The horse drawn vehicles- Well, we
Council/(All talking).
Norton/What was the rule on the horse drawn vehicle?
Karr/Horse drawn vehicles, we haven't had one licensed for a number ofyears and they
were not operating at the time we increased these. They did not go out of business
because of the-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 20
Norton/We would have to deal with each one of these and I think it is possible to deal
with each one of them separately. I kind of agree with Ernie that this is an amenity.
It wo~dd be nice to have. We could- It is not as if we are going to zero insurance.
Karr/So, is it the council's desire to continue licensing both horse drawn vehicles and
pedicabs but at a lesser insurance or not license them at all?
Thomberry/Well, we will have to talk about it.
Lehman/I would just like a memo from the Risk Manager explaining in more detail.
Kubby/Can we schedule this for December 167
Karr/We should because these all become due at March 1. These companies need to
know if they are going to renew.
Norton/At a lesser level would be my feeling. At a lesser level.
Baker/I understand the risk to the rider and deliver of the service. I want to know what
the risk is to the city.
Karr/Because we are licensing them, we are giving inspections and we are talking
responsibility that the vehicle is safe.
Baker/Safe but even $1 million might not be enough.
Vanderhoef/What is our risk if we don't license them?
Karr/It is, I believe, less of a responsibility to the city because we have not done an
inspection and have not looked at the vehicle. There is still a burden of
responsibility considering the condition of the streets.
VanderhoefJ I would still like to hear from the Risk Manager about that possibility of just
not licensing them.
Norton/Can we get on record? Is there some record- Are we going to do it at a lesser
level or look at that?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 21
Council/(All talking).
Nov/Well, all we are asking for is, what I hear, is that we want a report from the Risk
Manager.
Kubby/And what is our increased exposure for lowering it. I am inclined to say that this is
a good amenity for the city. I am willing to take that exposure but I guess some
clarification of what that additional exposure is.
Karr/We will have that before you and schedule it for the 16th.
Nov/If we are going to have any exposure at all, I don't agree with that.
Thornberry/Well, it is going to be up to the Risk Manager I think and you know, what if
he wrote a bike around town and took riders. You know, would he even need a
license? You know, ill ride double on my bike and I got somebody on the back,
do I need a license to do that?
Norton/Hey, that is probably against the law, too.
Nov/No, you don't need a license to do that. However, are you charging that person a
fare to ride on your bike with you?
Lelunan/Knowing Dean, he would.
Thomberry/But of course, I am doing the peddling, aren't I?
Vanderhoeff I would just like to ask whether you have investigated this contract ridership
at all and what kind of insurance you would entertain using if that were a
possibility?
Weber/IfI was asking each rider individually to sign a waiver.
Vanderhoef/How you could do that in an efficient way? I mean, the satchel picture is not-
However, if there is a way to do it in a lump sum on a single page that these are
my riders and this is my contract.
Weber/Yeah, I would like to consult with my lawyer and find out-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 4 page 22
Vanderhoef/I would like to hear back that possibility, too.
Weber/What I could get away with there. Well, it is to my advantage to not have a really
bulky contract and so-
Norton You get a bunch of little tickets by which they put their initial like you do when
you are taking insurance at the airport.
Lehman/That probably isn't going to work.
Nov/Carry a computer with him, too.
Weber/My concern would be how many people would be turned off to the idea of taking
a ride ifI drove it home that this was a risk that the city was afraid-?
Nov/The question they may ask you if you ask them to sign a contract, is how much
insurance are you carrying and you may end up with exactly the same question
from them as you are getting from the city.
Thornberry/How much does this insurance cost you anyway? Do you have any idea?
Weber/In the letter that I submitted to you, the insurance that I am paying right now for
my premium is $1400 annually. My gross returns per cab I expected to be about
$3800. You can see that that is almost easily 1/3- My premiums is easily 1/3 of my
gross receipts. Say nothing of my rent, etc., etc. After all the projected costs have
been worked through, I really only expect to make $300 annually per cab with this
new premium.
Norton/Let's go on.
Thornberry/Let's look at it.
Nov/I appreciate your ability to analyze this. I thought the letter was excellent.
Norton/Thank you.
Weber/Thank you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//4
page 23
Thomberry/Cute little cab, too.
Nov/We will think about you. We will get another opinion from the Risk Manager.
Kubby/So we will be discussing it, I assume, on December 16 at our informal meeting
which is here and starts at 7:00.
Nov/Is there anyone else who would like to discuss something that isn't on today's
agenda? Okay. We have a request from a council member to take a short break. It
is going to be very short. So be back soon.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 3, 1996
City of Iowa City
Page
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 7, entitled "Land
Subdivisions," Article A, entitled "General Subdivision Provisions,"
Section 4, entitled "Establishment of Control," pertaining to City review
of subdivisions located within two miles of the City's boundaries.
(Pass and adopt)
Comment: At its September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
amendment to the subdivision regulations.
approval in a report dated September 19,
Action: ~/~_-~ / ~'~'~.~
Staff recommended
96- ~9.~ ~: d.
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article M, entitled "Accessory Uses and Buildings," Section 1, entitled
"Permitted Accessory Uses and Buildings," to allow satellite receiving
devices one meter or less in diameter in any yard or on the roof of any
structure in residential areas. (Pass and adopt)
Comment: At its September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
ordinance. The Commission's recommendation is consistent with the
staff recommendation in the September 1 9 staff memorandum.
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article I, entitled "Public Zone," Subsection 4, entitled "Special
Exceptions," to allow communications towers as a special exception in
the P, Public zone. (Pass and adopt)
Comment: At its September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
ordinance. Staff recommended approval in a report dated
September 19.
# 5e page I
ITEM NO. 5e Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled
"Zoning," Article I, entitled "Public Zone," Subsection 4, entitled "Special
Exceptions," to allow communications towers as a special exception in the P, Public
zone. (Pass and adopt)
Nov/Moved By Vanderhoef, seconded by Lehman. Discussion. I have one item. There is
an ad this week from Sprint PCS which will give people an option of a cellular
phone as they travel and a non-cellular phone when they are at home. That is the
ordinary hand held non-connected potable phone. And this will require many many
towers. They are coming soon.
Norton/(Can't hear).
Thomberry/Yes, your worse fears are coming to fruitation.
Lehman/I think it is fruition.
Kubby/Fruition. That is an Archie Bunker.
Thomberry/I like Archie.
Nov/Anyway we are due to have personal communication system.
Kubby/Just have a microchip implanted in your brain.
Norton/P/Z put it ill4 on their list, I noticed.
Nov/You noticed. Well, I am telling you we are being descended upon.
Lyone Fein/(Can't hear).
Nov/Come forward. We are not going to turn it down.
Fein/If you vote no, then we are not doomed to it. You know. I just wanted to mention
that.
Kubby/On this particular ordinance, the reason I support it is because we are saying that
the only way they can- If they have these towers in the public zone, we have
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 5e page 2
control over how many, where they are located, the distance between public access
to them, how high they are. Then we have some say over it and we can say no.
Norton/We are trying to encourage them into that.
Vanderhoef/However, we don't have the option of telling them no, they can't have
towers at all. The federal law says we must.
Norton/We are obliged.
Kubby/Their lobbyists were very-
Vanderhoef/So we are trying to be proactive and get it organized now.
Nov/The one thing is in the public zone means everyone has to come to us before they
put up a tower.
Kubby/And one of the other things we are going to do is encourage them to share towers
as one of the possible requirements for approaching us. So that we reduce what
Dee and I call the new urban forest.
Norton/We did incorporate that feature into the ordinance.
Vanderhoef/Yeah, we did. It is in here.
Norton/And we have asked P/Z to look at other features but it is not easy given the law.
Thomberry/Okay.
Nov/Okay, we can vote, right? Roll call- (yes).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 3, 1996 City of Iowa City Page 6
f.
Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning,"
Article B, entitled "Zoning Definitions," to add definitions associated
with wireless communications facilities, including "communications
tower," "communications equipment building," and "communications
station." (Pass and adopt)
Comment: At September 19 meeting, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, by a vote of 6-0, recommended approval of the proposed
amendments. Staff recommended approval in
September 1 9.
a report dated
ITEM NO. 6
PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CiTY CODE TITLE 4,
ENTITLED "ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED
"OUTDOOR SERVICE AREAS; SEASONAL, FIVE DAY OR FOURTEEN DAY
LICENSES AND PERMITS," AND CHAPTER 1, ENTITLED "DEFINITIONS";
AND TITLE 10, ENTITLED "USE OF PUBLIC WAYS AND PROPERTY,"
CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED "COMMERCIAL USE OF SIDEWALKS."
Comment: At Council request, a committee was formed to review current
regulations concerning outdoor service areas (on private property) and
sidewalk cafes (on city owned property) to encourage more participation.
A copy of the proposed ordinance was sent to current outdoor service
areas' and sidewalk cafes as well as to establishments that picked-up
applications and did not return them.
The proposed ordinance reduces the notification requirement for sidewalk
cafes to property owners within 100 feet and requires a sign be posted for
tenants 10 days prior to Council action; removes the screening requirement
and reduces from 5 foot to 3 foot fencing height requirements for outdoor
service areas in the CB-10 zone; provides provisions for seasonal fencing
and elevated premises for sidewalk cafes with the approval of the Public
Works Director; clarifies the definition of "restaurant," and streamlines the
various types and categories of outdoor service areas and sidewalk cafes,
Action: ~--~ ~:~
# 6 page I
ITEM NO.6 PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE
4, ENTITLED "ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED "OUTDOOR
SERVICE AREAS; SEASONAL, FIVE DAY OR FOURTEEN DAY LICENSES AND
PERMITS," AND CHAPTER 1, ENTITLED "DEFINITIONS"; AND TITLE 10, ENTITLED
"USE OF PUBLIC WAYS AND PROPERTY," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED "COMMERCIAL
USE OF SIDEWALKS."
Nov/P.h. is now open.
Lyone Fein/A~d I guess I would just like us to try to take some minutes to unpack this
language that you just read out to us so that we could understand what is being
discussed with our d.t. public area which many of us spend time in. This one
question I had is because I may be unclear about this, all the chapters entitles- Do
they all fall under Title 4 Alcoholic Beverages? Is this like Title 4, then under that
is Chapter 3, then under that is Chapter 17
Karr/That is correct.
Fein/Subsection and subsection?
Karr/That is correct. Title 10 would be the otlier title that was affected.
Fein/Okay, so them are two-
Karr/That is correct.
Fein/One is affecting only establishments that serve alcoholic beverages.
Karr/That is correct.
Fein/And the other one is affecting all establishments that want to make commercial use
of the sidewalks?
Nov/One more thing, Lyone. It affects people who are serving alcoholic beverages in an
outdoor service area. So not everyone is serving alcoholic beverages.
Fein/Thank you. Okay. So, 1 didn't really expect to talk tonight.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 2
Kubby/Right now we have lots of different categories of outdoor sen, ices area whether
they are on public property or private property, the different zones. And it has
become kind of complex and it doesn't need to be. One of the things that we are
trying to do is streamline it. That you got places where people sit and drink
outside, whether they are on public, private, public properties or private
properties. So now there is two categories of these outdoor areas, public and
private.
Fein/Okay.
Kubby/That is one of the things we are doing is streamlining it.
Fein/All right. I guess one of- I have a couple of questions about the sidewalk cafes in
general. One is and I know this is not the only commercial use of sidewalks
because there are these periodic sidewalk sale days. Is there an economic exchange
between the city and private business owners when private business owners are
able to earn money using city property?
Nov/Yes, there is a permit fee for sidewalk cafes.
Fein/Okay, thank you. And I guess one thing that kind of troubles me and this I began
thinking about this the last time that you spoke about this. I guess it was at the last
meeting. About the elevated premises for sidewalk cafes. I guess I have two
concerns about that. One regarding the way in which changing elevations will
either restrict access to the sidewalk cafe area itself or will pose a as a impediment,
an obstacle in the path of say those citizens who we just installed those large red
parts of the sidewalks at street crossings for.
Kubby/People with sight-
Nov/Wheelchair accessibility is what you are concerned about?
Fein/I am concerned about wheelchair accessibility to the raised portions and I am also
concerned about how those raised portions will obstruct the safe passage through
the public walkways of citizens with sight impairments.
Norton/It is an eight foot walkway in any case. I think, is that true? It is always eight foot.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 3
Karr/There is an eight foot r.o.w. required around every sidewalk cafe between the street
and the sidewalk care. There is a required eight foot clear zone.
Nov/And the clear zone may be not from the street but from the tree to the sidewalk.
Whatever-
Karr/Unobstr~cted, yes.
Fein/Okay. So in the ped mall that includes eight feet between the wooden risers that
enclose-
Karr/That is correct and the businesses establishment, yes.
Fein/I don't think that that is being maintained.
Norton/You have been down there with the tape measure, have you?
Kubby/It just seems a narrow space?
Fein/Yea.h, it does.
Karr/We only have one sidewalk care on the plaza and that- It is a large area but there is
an eight foot-
Fein/It is eight feet between that riser and the- Okay, all right.
Karr/So we will certainly double check it again but yeah, we do that every year.
Fein/I believe you. It just seemed-
Karr/I think, Lyone, a lot of it is, especially on the plaza because it is such an immense
area, there is no curb. It is a large area. It does look deceiving. But certainly we
will double check that.
Fein/And I guess I am wondering about just what does the language mean here in the
very first clause about requirement for sidewalk cafes to property owners within
100 feet and requires a sign to be posted for tenants ten days prior to council
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//6
page 4
action. I am wondering who are the tenants you are talking about. What is the- I
am just wondering what is the notification being sent about just so we can-
Kubby/The notification is for people who have businesses who rent their property around
where the proposed sidewalk cafe is. If they object, that information is important
for us to know. It is an opportunity to have prior notification because they might
feel that it obstructs their window or their entrance way and we need to know
what those objections might be.
Nov/And we require not only a notice by mail but also a sign on the building. Just to have
two ways to notify people.
Fein/I see. Okay, great. Thanks.
Norton/I wanted to ask a question. Is that all right? With respect to the microwave matter
that- We had this letter in front of us we got from Panchero's tonight where you
are requiring that they have a stove and a microwave and a sink and a this and that
and I take it an effor~ to make sure you had a bona fide restaurant operation on the
street as distinct from strictly a pub.
Mitchell/Right, correct. And actually all we are doing is just clarifying it. There had been
some confusion as to whether all these items were required and so we wanted to
make it clear that they are. You know, I don't see a problem with eliminating a
microwave oven from that. That way they could have one if they want one but
they don't have to have one.
Nov/So you are saying everything in here is required even though there is an or?
Karr/The or is the refrigeration unit.
Nov/No.
Norton/It is microwave, stove-
Nov/Oven, stove, griddle, grill or broiler.
Kubby/No, it is grill and broiler together.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 5
Mitchell/You have to have a stove, right.
Kubby/There is no comma there.
No¥/Well, then you need to reword it because the way it is going-
Mitchell/Well, it should, well, okay. It states all of the following. Stove, the griddle. And
you can have either a grill of a broiler. You don't have to have both of those and
that is the reason for the comma after broiler.
Karr/We spent a lot of time on this comma, Madam Mayor.
Nov/Well, I still want to rewrite it to make it (can't hear).
Karr/What language- What do you suggest?
Norton/Microwave management.
Nov/You want to delete microwave oven? Is that would you said.
Mitchell/Yeah, I don't see a problem.
Kubby/We might not want to delete it because there might be a restaurant that is their
major cooking appliance.
Mitchell/The way it is written, you still have to have though a stove, griddle, grill or
broiler.
Nov/I would still like to delete all of the following if you are going to put in a or.
Baker/How about campfire?
Nov/How about-
Mitchell/The only thing that or should apply to is you can have a grill or a broiler. But
you have to have one of the two.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996,
F120396
# 6 page 6
Nov/So let's say all of the tollowing and say a refrigeration unit with capacity in excess of
20 cubic feet, a microwave oven, a stove, a griddle and a grill or broiler.
NoRon/That is not the point.
Kubby/We should- Let's, you know. We shouldn't be spending our time on this, I am
sony.
NoRon/Get microwave out of there, that is all.
Nov/All right, just get microwave out of there7
Thomberry/You have got a ~crowave.
Norton/I didn't understand what is the fee. What is the fee?
Mitchell/You can still have a microwave.
Karr/The fee is set by resolution. And deletion of microwave does not delete it.
Audience/(Can't hear).
Mitchell/Oh, okay, right,
Nov/All right, come forward, please. Talk to the microphone, tell us your name.
Dean DeSchepper/I was the one that sent the letter. Basically I just wanted to- We do not
have a microwave and I feel that by putting that in there, you are restricting us
from keeping our sidewalk care.
Nov/I see, okay.
DeSchepper/That is the only concern I have.
Nov/Okay.
Kubby/There might be many restaurants that don't-
This represents ouly a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#6 p~e7
DeSchepper/Right. I know there are several in town.
Nov/Do you have a stove, a grill, a broiler, a refrigerator, all those other kinds of things?
DeSchepper/It said must have all of the following.
Nov/Okay.
DeSchepper/That is what my concern was.
Nov/Okay.
Thornberry/It doesn't say you have to use it.
Kubby/It is just an additional expense that is not necessary.
DeSchepper/Exactly.
Norton/I take it you understand you can connect a permanent fence and take (can't hear)
to repair the sidewalk, etc. So that answers your question in paragraph 3. I don't
know about the fees.
DeSchepper/Yes.
Nov/All right. Does anyone have a problem with the refrigeration in excess of 20 cubic
feet?
Mitchell/No, I don't think so. It just means you have to have-
Norton/A serious refrigerator.
Mitchell/Yeah.
Kubby/More than a dorm refrigerator.
Nov/Well yeah. But 20 cubic feet is more than a household refrigerator, isn't it?
Council/(No).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#6 p~e8
Nov/Okay.
Kubby/How many people here know what their cubic footage oftheir refrigerator?
Lehman/Write it on a pi~e of paper and we will pass it around.
Kubby/You guys know more about your lives than I do.
Council/(All talking).
Norton/It says right on the door, 14.4 or something.
Council/(All talking).
Nov/Is there anyone else who would like to talk to us about this ordinance? I have one
more question. Why are we deleting the coffee shop, the ice cream shop, etc.?
They already have sidewalk cafes. Why do we want to delete them from this
definition?
Karr/Definition of a restaurant.
/ In 10c.?
Karr/Yes.
Nov/I am on page 3.
Mitchell/The only reason we made the change was just so the definitions are consistent in
both sections. You know, those type of places are still going to fall under the
definition of a restaurant.
Nov/They are not going to have all of the above.
Karr/No, our definition of a restaurant is consistent in each one with the exception of that
language in one. We made the definition consistent in both chapters.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 9
Nov/That is fine to have a consistent definition. The consistent definition says this has a
kitchen with all of the following. The ice cream shop is not going to have all of the
following.
Kubby/But we have it in another place where it allows those entities to have a sidewalk
cafe, correct?
Nov/Okay. I just want to be sure they are not going to be written out of the ordinance.
Kubby/Right. People won't lose their current ability ofthose-
Karr/Absolutely not.
Nov/Okay.
Thomberry/Or to acquire.
Nov/Well, if we get a new coffee shop and they want a new sidewalk care, I don't want
them to be written out. Okay?
Lehman/Absolutely.
Nov/Now, is there any other discussion?
Kubby/I had a couple of concerns. One I share with Lyone about the elevated structures
that if there is a majority of people who want to add that, that a sidewalk cafe
located on a structure on top of a public sidewalk are subject to the approval of
public works. I guess I want to know what is the criteria? If there is going to be
some visual blockage?
Karr/I think I might have a good example of that. What we have on the books right now
does not allow any reference to the possibility for an elevated care. So this, #1,
simply plants the seed that this may come up #2 It has come up from an
establishment that already has a ramp going into their building now. To make it a
sidewalk cafe would make serving difficult because their front door is elevated, is
higher. So what this would do would mean that their sidewalk care would be built
up to their entrance and across their ramp. So it would be accessible to all of their
present clients fight now.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 10
Thomberry/Which one is that?
Karr/G. A. Malones. And thirdly, also they would have the same requirements as any of
the other establishments. They would have to be accessible to handicap in new
construction.
Kubby/And I guess because that is there, people are very confused about the ADA and
sometimes our inspectors, because we don't enforce the ADA locally, they are not
always reminding people about it. That it be somehow in the ordinance.
Karr/A reference to ADA regs.?
Kubby/That ifa care would be located on a structure on top ofpublic sidewalk and it is
approved, that it also has to be accessible. Just so that on the front end in here it is
clear.
Karr/We certainly could. We note in there that it meet all of the codes but we certainly
could add language that denotes it as accessible. Sure. Do you see a problem with
that, Dennis?
Mitchell/No, not at all.
Karr/We could do that.
Nov/Can we also say that this elevated whatever is something that is temporary and must
be removed the same way-?
Karr/Eve~3, use of public r.o.w. is temporary. All use of public r.o.w. is temporary. It is a
lease agreement. It makes it a little bit more difficult and that is why it is at the
approval of Public Works.
Kubby/But unlike the map that is using temporally cement, using the public r.o.w which
was a separate thing from the sidewalk cafe. I think Naomi's concern is that it be
removed when the season is over and that them not be this elevated portion that is
just sitting there in the off season not being used. That is be physically removed.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 11
Karr/I don't know if that would be something that would be amenable to the owner. They
are going to invest a lot of money into this. It would be a building permit. It is an
extension of a building. It is a structure. So they are going to be putting some
money into it, signing a yearly r.o.w. agreement. It would be annually brought up
for renewal. But I am not sure that that would be something that #1 would be
easily stored or #2 if you note in here, we also don't restrict the season. So if they
wanted to be out there in a nice winter day for coffee or something, that that
would be usable for them, unlike the sidewalk cafes right now that we are use to
that do close down at a certain time of the year.
Kubby/I guess it would be the same, that if the city needed that r.o.w or if there were
some complaints and some safety concern or some behavior concern because of
the elevation and people spilling and whatever-
Karr/And that would be written into the agreement.
Kubby/That we could, at any time, give them 30 days notice or whatever.
Mitchell/I am sure that is probably in our license.
Karr/Yeah, that is in out current agreement right now.
Vanderhoef/So what would this structure do for us in the way of snow removal and-
Karr/The owner is always responsible for snow removal.
Kubby/Of the public r.o.w.
Nov/And I was thinking of a wooden deck that they could just take inside and not have it
all year around with snow on it.
Karr/I can assure you that in talking with our Public Works Department, these items will
not be taken lightly and they will be looked at very very seriously. Again, for the
temporary use of the r.o.w., for the aesthetics of them, and also our citizen safety.
Vanderhoef/Would it be appropriate for us to review?
Karr/Each one of them will come before you for approval.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 12
Vanderhoef/When it comes to a raised one? The rest ofthese-
Karr/Oh no, everyone of them comes before you.
Vanderhoef/Well, we have been having some on Consent Calendar.
Karr/Everyone of them, both new and renewal.
Vanderhoef/On the Consent Calendar.
Norton/Are there skirting requirements for the raised ones?
Karr/We have not done any requirements except to initiate the fact that we won't
acknowledge such requests and l'm sure they would not be open underneath but I
would not gone as far as look at the design of them.
Kubby/Maybe they'd have some storage but things would have to be enclosed and
whatever.
Mitchell/You bet.
Kubby/1 had two other issues. They're both on page 2 and they both have to do with
why, because- we have certain requirements that are based on either safety or
trying to decrease the chances of alcohol being passed over the fence. But the
requirements are different depending on the zone. How does the safety issue or
passage of beverages change according to where the place in terms of the zone?
Karr/The committee talked a lot about this and especially in light of the one situation with
the fence height that we had a current establishment d.t., namely Bushnells. And
what the committee felt very strongly about was that very many of these
establishments, especially sidewalk cafes, but also outdoor service areas serve
food, they want it to be welcome. They want it to be visible. They want it to be
inviting and they thought that all of those things right now by screening them off
and blocking them was actually creating more of an incentive or more of a- by
opening it up they thought it would be much better governed and much more
inviting for family atmosphere.
This represents only a reasonably accurate trauscription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#6
Kubby/So why wouldn't it instead of?
p~e13
Karr/We had some committee members who felt very strongly that in the outlying areas
when you have more residential areas, they did not wish to- children on their way
to school or people passing by. When you are d.t., you expect commercial nature.
When you're out living in residential areas and many of these would be in the
outlying areas, they felt there was a distinction.
Kubby/And what about in terms of the emergency exits that in one zone the emergency
exit will only be an emergency exit vs. being able to being able to be used double
duty as a regular exit in one zone but not in another.
Nov/Hmm. I thought it was in both.
Karr/They should all be-
Mitchell/They should all be the-
Karr/Where is that, Karen?
Kubby/Page 2 section 4, but maybe I'm misreading it too. Oh, no, no, no. I am incorrect.
I'm sony.
Karr/I think we tried to make them consistent.
Kubby/Yeah. They are. I'm sorry.
Karr/Okay.
Kubby/] was just reading my handwriting. I did have a question on that. Does this create
a hardship in terms of having to create and police that exit only to be emergency
and why not let it be used double duty? People would have an exit out the back for
emergencies, but also in non-emergency times as well as through the establishment.
Karr/I believe that has to do with the egress and access for alcoholic beverages. Just a
little bit more control. That's exactly right.
Nov/And I think there would be more control in terms of paying your bill also.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 14
Kubby/Good point. Thank you very much.
Norton/It's a good job of trying to re-tuning or fine tuning this thing.
Karr/We also, I just wanted to note, we also are recommending that the sunset clause be
emended two more years because it would be due to expire automatically in
November. With these changes, We'd like to see us have at least a year if not two
years of recommending another two years to see how this shakes down and sorts
itself out rather than coning before you in November again.
Kubby/The other option is to say, the sidewalk eafe idea is a good one. We're making
amendments to the ordinance and we don't need a sunset clause any more.
Karr/That would be the other option.
Kubby/We might have continuing amendments, but that the fact and the opportunity to
have sidewalk cafes and outdoor service areas is here and it's successful and we
might make changes, but we don't need the sunset clause any more. Or do you
want to check it out for another couple of years?
Vanderhoeff What l'd really like to check out is the raised one. That's a new initiative.
Kubby/But we could always delete that because it's a yearly thing.
Karr/And we don't know if we're going to have any. This is simply allowing that
possibility.
Kubby/Because the idea for the sunset was to say, will this idea in general work in our
community. Is it an appropriate way of doing business in our community? And for
me the answer's yes. I might want to tweak the ordinance and ifI don't like the
raised platforms to stay, I want to delete that possibility as an amendment whereas
a sunset idea of the whole concept. I would be for-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-141 SIDE 1
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 15
Lehman/In a year or 16 - 18 months we don't llke them anymore and we change the
ordinance, wouldn't we be liable for the cost of building those things and tearing
them down?
Kubby/No, it is a year by year agreement. We have no obligation to approve it next year.
Lehman/It is only year by year?
Kubby/It may be (can't hear) and we disapprove of the second year because of some
problems that it has caused. Or just because we don't want to, right? Do we have
to have a reason?
Karr/It is your r.o.w.
Nov/I believe you are going to have to have a reason.
Kubby/As a rational person 1 would likely want to have a reason to approve something
that ! have approved earlier.
Norton/Well, where is the- Is the sunset feature in here now?
Karr/The sunset fee is your last paragraph in there. The sunset fee that is on the books
right now is November 1 of 1997 and our only concern is because of these changes
and we think it is going to open the doors, there might be people who would be
reluctant to invest in something that would only be for a few months. So I don't
know that you are going to get-
Nov/That is the same argument. Whatever they invest in, the permit is only good for a
few months.
Karr/It is good for a year.
Kubby/I can make the argument the sunset clause at all at this point in our evolution with
this concept in our community, we don't need it anymore and that it hampers
investment in these.
Norton/What do we need to move it out of there. A motion?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 16
Karr/Just direct staff. We will come back. We are already going to make a couple of
changes that you requested tonight. If there are four of you, we will certainly
delete it.
Nov/No, I compromised in 1999 but I really like the idea that it is going to be reviewed
once a year.
Kubby/The sunset clause?
Norton/I would just assume do away with it.
Lehman/Don't you review it when you renew it?
Karr/We would review once a year regardless of the sunset clause. The sunset clause
deals with the overall ordinance itself. The renewal would be individually done
each year as they come up.
Nov/Well, we could probably tell the staff to review the ordinance once a year without
having the sunset clause but I would feel more comfortable having it there.
Kubby/Anybody else want to X the sunset clause? There is three.
Lehman/I don't have any problem doing that.
Kubby/Four.
Norton/Make that four.
Nov/Okas,, sounds as if we are going to take it out.
Karr/So we will make the change on the microwave oven, the accessibility and the
elevation and the sunset clause. Okay.
Nov/What kind of elevation change?
Karr/^dding the language similar to Karen's suggestion for accessibility for elevators.
Council/(All talking).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 6 page 17
Nov/Going to keep it in there.
Norton/Just to remind them, yeah.
Vanderhoef/When will you be coming to us with deposits and so fourth for the elevated
sidewalks?
Karr/The resolution that establishes the fees we are not going to look at. We certainly can
and it is a flat per square foot. It doesn't have anything to do with elevated or- So
we weren't going to do that. I can include it in your next packet so you can look at
it when you are giving first consideration of this to see if you would like to. Right
now it is a very simple ordinance. It is just by square footage that they are renting
or leasing from the city.
Vanderhoeff I would like to see it. I have not seen it before.
Karr/Sure, 1 will put it in the packet.
Kubby/What about additional liability? Is there any additional to the city because of that
· ?
elevation.
Karr/I think we are going to take care of that in our agreement. We are only going to
look at that and maybe do some-
Kubby/Case by case you mean?
Karr/Well, I think we are going to look at the agreement that each person- I can put that
form in for you also. But we are going to be looking at the lease agreement that
each applicant signs with the city. Once you give the approval, then we enter into
an agreement with each owner.
Mitchell/And I am sure that agreement includes an indemnification clause in case
something would happen and the city would get sued.
Karr/I will stick that in.
Nov/Okay, is there any other comment on this ordinance?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#6
page 18
Karr/Could we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Nov/Moved and seconded (Kubby/Vanderhoef) that we accept correspondence. Any
discussion? All in favor please say aye- (ayes). Motion carried. Any other
discussion. P.h. is now closed.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 8, 1996 City of Iowa City Page 7
ITEM NO. 7
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE DESIGN OF EXTERIOR
ALTERATIONS TO SUITE 160, OLD CAPITOL MALL, 201 S. CLINTON
STREET.
Comment; Brost Architects & Planners have submitted an application for
approval of the design of exterior alterations to Suite 160, Old Capitol Mall,
located north of the Clinton Street entrance (Taco Bell). The Design
Review Committee will review this item and make recommendation at its
December 2 meeting. Staff memorandum included in Council packet.
Action:
ITEM NO. 8
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF AN
EASEMENT AGREEMENT FOR TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-
WAY BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HEITMAN PROPERTIES,
LTD., MANAGER OF OLD CAPITOL CENTER.
Comment: Heitman Properties Inc., owner of the Old Capitol Mall property,
requests temporary use of a portion of the Clinton Street right-of-way to
expand Old Capitol Mall into the planter nearest the Clinton Street
entrance. The encroachment onto the right-of-way is approximately one
foot and is limited to commercial retail use.
Action: :/~,'~cl~ .~-) //~~
ITEM NO. 9
CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE UNIVERSITY
OF IOWA FOR TEMPORARY USE OF RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR
CONSTRUCTION PURPOSES AND FOR ONGOING USE OF RIGHT-OF-WAY
FOR CHILLED WATER SYSTEM.
Comment: This agreement facilitates the installation of a chilled-water
distribution line by The University of Iowa along Jefferson Street between
the T. Anne Cleary Walkway and Dubuque Street and along Dubuque
Street between Jefferson Street and Iowa Avenue. Engineering and Public
Works have reviewed the University's construction drawings and
recommend agreement execution. Jefferson Street will be reduced to one
lane in three phases, and Dubuque Street will be reduced to two lanes in
two phases between December 23, 1996, and April 1, 1997.
Action: C~,c~/ ~'~
# 7 page 1
ITEM NO.7 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE DESIGN OF EXTERIOR
ALTERATIONS TO SUITE 160, OLD CAPITOL MALL, 201 S. CLINTON STREET.
Nov/] assume that we are here with recommendations?
Schoon/Yes.
Nov/Yes.
Schoon/This evening you should have received a memo containing the committees
recommendation and also a revised resolution. I don't see the applicant here
tonight. So I will make a brief presentation. The applicant is requesting that you
approve two designs for the Taco Bell project. The other item on the agenda deals
with the use of the r.o.w. They are asking that you approve both alternate B & C
with the Committee's recommendations. They are still working on a design issue
dealing with accessibility on the interior of the mall dealing with the front door. If
they can't resolve that issue- If they can resolve the accessibility issue, they would
like to make the front door so that it would be both an entrance and an exit. That
side would have two doors. If they can't resolve that issue, then the door would
have to be an exit only and so then that is the reason for the alternate C design.
Really the only two differences between the exterior designs is that one would be
two doors, the other would be one door.
Nov/And what is this comment about a lit~ which is in today's material but was not in the
other?
Schoon/They had asked for an appeal regarding an interpretation of our Building Code
which has adopted State Code regarding accessibility issues. That appeal was
denied. During that discussion, the Board of Appeals suggested the use of a lift in
the inside of the building to deal with accessibility. The dining area is at a lower
level than the main kitchen counter area. And so they are looking at the cost and
feasibility of putting a lift in. If they are able to put a lift in, then the fi'ont door
could be used both as an entrance and an exit. Therefore, the reason for one of the
designs.
Nov/So they are talking about a lift at a stair or something like that?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 7 page 2
Schoon/Yeah. There are three steps going from the dining area up to the main area where
they have the kitchen and the rest room and they are looking at putting a lift in
next to those stairs.
Kubby/You know, why couldn't they just make a ramp, three stairs isn't that much slope
and there is nothing obstructing them having a ramp so that 37 more percent of the
seating area would be accessible to everyone.
Schoon/My understanding is that it would require a fair amount of area inside to put a
ramp.
Norton/ I think the rise would be too steep for the run.
Lehman/A ramp would take too much space.
Kubby/Well, you got this clear zone all the way here.
Norton/Yeah, I see. Then you would have a ramp running behind the seats.
Kubby/No, the stairs are-
Vanderhoef/There would be a rail involved in that that would create a barrier as far as
using tables up on the top if you had to stretch it out.
Kubby/It matters how it is designed. Like Malone's has one that goes into their property
and they don't have a ramp on the inside because of the way the slope and the
surrounding area is around it. It comes this open feel area that is also helpful to
their cleaning staff and people serving food.
Nov/It looks to me like they are going to build a sunken dining area which they are not
required to build. They could build a dining area which is not sunken because that
is all new construction.
Schoon/Um, they would like to have an entrance on Clinton Street to provide interaction
with the streetscape. To do that either they are going to have to provide it at grade
or they are going to have to provide a ramp at that entrance.
Nov/Okay.
This rep?sents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 7 page 3
Schoon/Okay. And so then there are the design issues dealing with constructing a ramp
on the exterior and so it is either on the exterior or the interior in terms of making
the full restaurant accessible.
Kubby/Do we have any purview over the internal design? Or just the external?
Schoon/No. The Cormnittee reviews the internal design only to have a better
understanding of why they are doing the external design.
Kubby/So I can't whine anymore about the three stairs.
Lehman/Got that right.
Kubby/I just think it makes sense in terms of providing access to customers.
Thomberry/As a restaurateur of 27 years, I will not want to second guess their architects
ideas on seating people, moving people, etc. They are experts at it. I am certainly
not. That is why I hire architects to do fun things. And as far as moving people,
getting them to where they need to be, meeting ADA and ever~qhing else, I am
sure that all of this has been taken into consideration as being a national chain.
Vanderhoef/David, what would be the safety issue for emergency exit if that area was not
made accessible? Doesn't it have to be accessible?
Schoon/I don't know. In terms of talking with Ron Boose, he has found that if that
doorway was only an exit, that he would find it acceptable. That the safety issue
wasn't brought to my attention. I can't respond to that.
Vanderhoef/That would be my question of safety for patrons who are handicapped, in
wheelchairs, etc. without the ramp because then it would just leave the mall
entrance to do it and that is back by the kitchen and all of the things that are the
larger fire hazards.
Schoon/I can't answer that question. I assume Ron had taken that into consideration
when he recommended to them to make it an exit only.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 7 page 4
Mitchell/The state law requires in anytime there is a primary entrance that has to be
handicap accessible, the same doesn't hold true for exits and I think the logic is
because regardless of whether, you know, there is an entrance there, at least some
people can use that as an emergency exit. You know, by the same token, they are
still going to have to use that mall entrance anyway. So why not have another exit
for other patrons. So.
Vanderhoeff But it doesn't have to be. As long as they have seating to accommodate
wheelchair and entrance and exit, then that sunken area does not have to be
accessible?
Mitchell/No.
Vanderhoef/Okay, thank you.
Kubby/Was there any discussion at the Design Review and I didn't notice this in the
meeting about having that built up, creating a more enclosed feeling around the
mall entrance or did people think that the glass, the solarturn style of architecture
compensated for that?
Schoon/I am not understanding your question.
Kubby/Because the building is essentially going to be jetting out more right there, it is
going to feel a little more enclosed where it now feels very open Having that
planter there a you walk towards the mall into the double doors and that is going
to feel more enclosed now. Was there any discussion about that?
Schoon/No there wasn't any discussion. The discussion really focused on bringing the
building out to the street and that the windows really did that and that is something
the committee has talked a lot about in terms of the Clinton Street side of Old
Capitol Mall, trying to have that interact with the streetscape and they see this as
doing that.
Kubby/And is there any- I am not sure how I feel about- There is nothing I can do about
the logo but is there any talk about the colors. I know this is Taco Bell's colors
fight now. But would we have any ability to say we want the colors to blend in
instead of stick out quite so much and still have a visible sign?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 7 page 5
Schoon/The color of the bell goes pretty well with the fins on the entrance. So in terms of
them blending in with the existing colors, the color scheme kind of does that. I
mean it does that.
Kubby/Well, the red of the color scheme. I guess I am a little concerned about the yellow
and the purple. Maybe with the bricks it will blend in.
Norton/Well, I did see that they changed the awning color to match the color of the sign.
Originally the awning was going to be Talbot red and now it is going to be blue
taco magenta which I thought was an improvement.
Schoon/So one of the conditions the committee put on the application that the applicant
agreed to is that they add awnings above each on the windows on each of the three
sides, that they be independent awnings, that they not be illuminated, thai they be
more of a traditional design, very simple, more of a fabric material and the
applicant was happy to agree with that.
Kubby/And tile sign, will that be illuminated?
Schoon/Yes.
Kubby/Are there other illuminated signs?
Schoon/Talbot's is- all the signs. I should maybe not say all of them but most of them.
Nov/I wonder is it just the lettering that is illuminated or is it that entire front panel?
Schoon/No. The sign is individual elements of the bell.
Nov/Okay, so it is not the whole front panel?
Schoon/No. That front panel matches the metal that is above the doorways to the mall.
Vanderhoef/Am I reading this floor plan correctly that on the south side where that door,
single door without a window, that goes into a private area that is not part of the
establishment where there is a stairs?
Schoon/That would be a fire exit for the upper levels could use that stairwell to get down
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#7
page 6
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Nov/That is not open to the outside unless you are in there and trying to get out.
Vanderhoef/Okay, that is what I wanted to know. The other question I had for you is
how does this establishment get serviced? Where is their entrance for their
supplies?
Schoon/They would have to come to one of the doors to the site. I mean there is no
backdoor to this.
VanderhoefJ There is no basement area underneath this?
Schoon/Yes, there is a basement underneath.
Vanderhoeff And is that part of their lease property?
Schoon/I don't know what their lease arrangement is in terms of storage space.
Vanderhoef/What I have a concern with on servicing this particular business is that it is
one that needs to be serviced frequently and turn over of food supplies and that 1
wondered ifwe are looking at another Dubuque Street situation where we are
going to end up with lots of big trucks parked fight there where we have a
crosswalk getting into the mall and what kind of safety issue we are going to have
with people who can't see around trucks that are parked in the middle of the street
trying to delivery food.
Schoon/I don't know what the delivery requirements of the mall. I know there are food
establishments in the mall existing. I don't know how they are serviced.
Vanderhoeff But we don't have any at this location. They are on the backside, not on our
Clinton Street frontage and that crosswalk is real dangerous and when I am
looking at the loading zones there, I see patrons that use the loading zones for 15
minutes, run in and pick up and run out and they are truly small zones that only
hold 2-3 cars.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#7
page 7
Thornberry/Dee, I doubt very seriously that they are going to be accepting deliveries
during business hours. In the middle of day, there aren't going to be delivery
trucks there, I guarantee you there won't be.
Nov/And there are delivery trucks on the Capitol Street side regularly and I don't know
what they are delivering but I am sure they are delivering for all kinds of businesses
that are located within the mall.
Vanderhoef/There is a difference in the loading zone situation is what I am concerned
about and we don't have- We have not made that possible on Dubuque Street with
eating establishments and out beer trucks and so fourth that are pat-king there and 1
think we should be looking at this up front for Clinton Street before we get any
further with this.
Norton/Could there be service from the other side? Or could that be required?
Nov/I am thinking that is what the Mall requires. They have all of their trucks and all of
their docks and loading on the Capitol Street side and I am sure they are serving all
of the people within the Mall whether it is food or anything else.
Norton/I think it is important to look at.
Thornberry/And there are upstairs restaurants, too, that you know get delivered.
Vanderhoef/1 would just like to find out how this could happen or if there could be
certain hours that would be prohibited maybe that deliveries during the hours the
Mall is open or something.
Lehman/The one that was years and closed up a little bit ago. There was only one
entrance there.
Thornberry/So you are going to check the Mall requirements for deliveries?
Schoon/Yes, I will.
Vanderhoef/See what we can work out to make it safe for everybody and still a viable
business.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#7 p~e8
Thomberry/Yes, I would like my competitor to do well.
Nov/Of course. Okay, is there any other discussion?
Kubby/I don't have any specific objection but I am really having a hard time (can't hear).
Nov/Well, we didn't even have a motion yet. Moved by Lehman, seconded by
Thomberry. Now, what are your problems?
Kubby/The issue we are suppose to be talking about is design but the thing I have the
biggest concern about is much larger than that. It is that part of the uniqueness of
Iowa City is that there are still some portions that when you are there, you know
you are in Iowa City versus any other town in the United States. We do have some
sections that I believe are like that and Taco Bell is just part of that and I would
rather see a mall or franchise locally generally Panthero's type of successful
business that goes to a few other communities and regions that is not all over the
country.
Thornberry/This is a question. ls this a question of a company store or is this a franchise
store7
Schoon/I believe it is a franchise store.
Thornberry/So it is a locally owned operation then if it is a franchise store.
Kubby/Right, the ownership I am glad is local. But it is still creates an atmosphere of
anywhere USA in our tit.
Norton/That is hard. You have to say the same thing about Talbot's or Lands End. What
are you going to do? I understand what you mean but it is hard to deal with.
Thomberry/Penney's and Younker's. too.
Norton/Free enterprise.
Thornberry/There is an Enzler's in Cedar Rapids.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 7 page 9
Kubby/But you are in a certain part of the country at least with Younker's. You know
that you are in a region of the United States.
Thornbeny/Who is now owned by a company in the southeast, right?
Lehman/Well, I hear you but I don't think it is our call.
Kubby/At what point is it our call.
Lehman/I think when we appointed Design Review Committee, it was to approve designs
of buildings that were proposed by folks in this town and we supposedly got seven
folks.
Kubby/Right. That is why I am saying that I understand that my objections are not design
related specifically ifthey are part of the design of our community. I just feel
uncomfortable putting my name on it.
Lehman/You know, seriously, if you have a problem with that, I would talk to the DR
Committee.
Kubby/They don't have control over the point that I am making.
Council/(All talking).
Nov/You would like to say Taco Bell should not be on Clinton Street. We can't say that.
Thomberry/You don't want another national fast fond chain d.t. Iowa City.
Lehman/Well, I don't either.
Thomberry/You would like to see it Kubby's Burgers or Kubby's Tacos.
Kuoby/Nope, I have got a couple of jobs. I don't need those jobs. I work hard everyday. I
don't need to work harder. I can't work harder.
Thomberry/How many people do you employ? They are going to employ quite a few
people.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996,
F120396
# 7 page 10
Norton/I was thinking how Salisbury, England felt when Burger King jumped on their
main street.
Thomberry/Absolutely. It took away a local theater, yeah.
Baker/So Karen, are you going to vote against it?
Kubby/No, I am probably going to vote for it because I don't have any specific objections
to this design but I want it noted for the public record that I have a hard time with
this anywhere USA that is going to eat our community up and we, at some point,
can pass all responsibility off. But-
Nov/Moving on.
Schoon/It doesn't get to the store itself but in terms ofthe original design that was
brought before the Committee, the Committee had concerns about it, that it was
something that was pulled from anywhere and place on the Mall. So that they then
worked with the applicant to come up with something that worked with the Mall,
the design of the Mall. So I mean that effort has been made in terms of the DR
Committee's concern about aesign issues in it being anywhere USA.
Kubby/I appreciate that effort.
Lehman/It is hard to tell, too, from the drawings.
Vanderhoeff It just, this is the second exterior change to this mall in the last year and I
wonder if this is going to be a continuation and are we going to be looking at a
succession of outdoor doors?
Schoon/The Mall representative indicated at the Committee's meeting that they do have
an interest in adding more facades with entrances on that side of the mall. They
have an interest in doing that.
Vanderhoeff But would those all be exit doors or would they be entrance-exits?
Schoon/That becomes an issue with the accessibility issue. In terms of how they are able
to resolve making it accessible will depend on where they do it and how they plan
on doing it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//7
page 11
Vanderhoeff And would they all have that same concern of elevation that we saw with
these three steps?
Schoon/The main mall floor ~s higher than the sidewalk across the mall. So that will
always be an issue in terms of design along Clinton Street facade.
Kubby/We could send- Please design your place so you don't need three stairs that really
limit you and limit the community.
Nov/But Talbot's managed to put in stairs and a ramp and to do it with relatively good
design. So we are saying it is not impossible.
Norton/I think it is desirable to see that wall broken down a little bit and integrated into
the city.
Baker/That is one of the ugliest buildings in this town. So ifwe can break up the front of
that building, dynamite a couple of places, and put in some new facades along the
street. Unfortunately Hamburg Inn is probably not going to do it. Taco Bell is
probably going to do it. I think everybody on the council agrees with your
concern. I mean, it is a trend that I wish that there was a way to not ameliorate so
much as alter the trend. But this-that building there-
Norton/Stimulating local private investment, that is what we have got to do.
Baker/It keeps it from looking like not Western Bell or a prison or a load of brick.
Nov/We have a building that is owned by a corporation in x, y, z city. It is not a locally
owned building and they will rent to whomever they can rent. We can't tell then
they shouldn't do that. Okay, moving on. Roll call~ (yes). I want you to know that
Madam Kubby was holding her tongue.
Kubby/No, I hope I don't hold my tongue.
Baker/All right, we are all heading for the border now
Nov/Moving on.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 8 page I
ITEM NO.8 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF AN
EASEMENT AGREEMENT FOR TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY
BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HEITMAN PROPERTIES, LTD,, MANAGER
OF OLD CAPITOL CENTER.
Nov/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Vanderhoe£ Discussion.
Kubby/Now this is not about design, this is about Taco Bell using the public r.o.w. The
Mall using the public r.o.w. so they can rent to a Taco Bell. I will be voting no on
this.
Nov/The Mall is already using the public r.o.w. for a planter. We are saying they are
going to be allowed to build upwards from the planter.
Thomberry/You don't want them to be able to do that even though you liked the design
of#7?
Kubby/No, don't misstate what I said. I said I don't have any specific objections to it. It
doesn't mean that I want to-
Thomberry/You just don't want to let them do it.
Kubby/This is where I can make that statement in a reasonable way without perretting
the vote I am actually making.
Thomberry/Makes no sense to me at all.
Lehman/(Can't hear).
Kubby/We have control over every single one. We have certain criteria and guidelines and
I have the ability to vote yea or nay on each individual sidewalk care as it comes to
us by looking at the design.
Thomberry/You can go ahead and do it in #7 but we don't- Okay, we are not going to let
you do it in #8.
Letunan/All right, let's see how many of the rest of us-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 8 page 2
Kubby/No, I am saying that the design is okay but it doesn't mean I have to said yes to
the upward encroachment of the r.o.w. and you can disagree with my analysis.
Nov/Okay.
Vanderhoef/Do we presently lease that space to the Mall Association?
Karr/No, we do not.
Vanderhoef/So there is no payment for the easement and I understood you correctly that
we do charge for sidewalk care use of the public r.o.w.?
Karr/This does not meet the requirement for a sidewalk care.
Vanderhoef/No we are charging for the use of the public r.o.w.
Karr/Yes we do.
Vanderhoef/With sidewalk cafes. So I guess my question is how is this different if we are
using-
Norton/Because we did it a long time ago.
Nov/No, it is a good question because a planter is not commercial use of the public r.o.w.
This is commercial use of the public r.o.w.
Lehman/I think the planter is on their property. All they want is one foot here.
Nov/They want one foot.
Kubby/And they need that one foot to do the business the way they want to. So why not
them be charged according the square footage like we do.
Thomberry/Boy, is this making it easy to do business in iowa City.
Nov/I think this is making a discussion that is not going to go much beyond this.
Kubby/But Dee's point is one of fairness.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//8
page 3
Nov/But it is only onc foot.
Baker/What do we charge for one foot?
Nov/One foot by what?
Karr/I can get you that information.
Baker/$1,000. $1,000 a month so we can pay the Elks.
Nov/I think we have had enough discussion. Roll call- (yes; No: Baker, Kubby). This
resolution has been approved on a 5-2 vote with Kubby and Baker voting no.
Thomberry/No to business in Iowa City.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#9 p~el
ITEM NO.9 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA
FOR TEMPORARY USE OF RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR CONSTRUCTION PURPOSES AND
FOR ONGOING USE OF RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR CHILLED WATER SYSTEM,
Nov/Moved by Lehman, secondary by Thomberry. Discussion.
Kubby/It was unclear in the agreement, Rick. It says that they will direct pedestrians. But
will pedestrians still be able to go along those streets on one side or another at
different times?
Fosse/They will certainly be able to get down on one side or the other. We are hoping we
can keep them moving on both sides of the street.
Nov/All right, they are going to be able to move parallel to the street but not across the
street, fight7
Fosse/They will not be able to cross through the project and the project will be phased in
pieces so that they will not have to go too far in either direction to get around it.
Lehman/You are saying they can't cross in the center of the block?
Fosse/They have to go to the corner.
Nov/Well, the current crosswalk will also be constructed at some point.
Fosse/The Anne McCleary one? Yes, that is right at the beginning of the project. That is
where it will begin.
Vanderhoef/Rick, in the note it says two phases between December 23 and April 1. But
back in the resolution it us saying by May 15.
Fosse/Oh, okay. We changed that to May 15 just to give them some additional time in
case they have bad weather and we didn't get that change made in both places.
Thomberry/There is a chance of bad weather between December 23 and April 1.
This represents only a reasonably accurate lranscription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 9 page 2
Fosse/This is a terrible time of year to be doing the work but apparently the Biology
Building's air conditioner system is completely shot. It has got to be complete
before the star~ of the next cooling season.
Vanderhoef/So because of the location, I am real concerned at the time of graduation and
when we have a egress from this student housing and so forth, that those streets
are shut down. That anything we could do to hurry it up to May I would be real
appropriate.
Fosse/I think that is a priority for the University as well. One of the reasons it is starting
as late as it is is they wanted to do it a~er finals and our concern was we didn't
want screwing up shopping traffic. So we wanted to push it back as far as we
could.
Thornberry/They could make believe that they were football fans.
Nov/Do you want to move the change? Do you want to amend the resolution?
Thornberry/April I to-
Nov/May 1.
Vanderhoef/May 1.
Nov/The resolution says May 15 and your concern is that is late. Do you want me to-
Vanderhoef/That it be completed before graduation.
Lehman/Well, and I think that they probably care a lot more than we do because it is
going to be a lot more inconvenience for them than it is for us. So completion 1
guess hate to see it close but I think they will do everything they can to see that it
is complete.
Vanderhoeff Because we are not putting in a penalty in there, that isn't the point of it. It
was just to recognize the fact that it certainly would be real helpful to have it done
by May 1.
Fosse/Right.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#9 p~e3
Thornberry/Did you want to charge the University, Larry, some money?
Baker/This is temporary. It is non-commercial.
Nov/No, it is not totally temporary. They are going to use the r.o.w for those water lines.
Baker/It says for temporary use.
Nov/Temporary construction plus the continue use for water lines.
Baker/Well, if they start charging for the water to the students.
Nov/Whose water? Are they buying our water for this project?
Norton/Run a line over to Spence Labs. That air conditioner will be going out pretty
soon. It might as well get it done while they are doing it.
Fosse/Well they will be stubbing it out for the new Biology Building as well.
Norton/Well run it over to Spence Labs. I know for a fact that one will go. I looked into
the pipes.
Fosse/They are stubbing it going down a continuation on Jefferson Street as well. So they
do have long term views.
Nov/Okay. Are we ready? Roll call- (yes). The resolution has been adopted.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 3, 1996
City of Iowa Oity
Page 8
ITEM NO. 10
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14 CHAPTER 3 ENTITLED
"CITY UTILITIES," ARTICLE E, ENTITLED "WASTEWATER TREATMENT
WORKS INDIRECT DISCHARGE" TO CONFORM WITH FEDERAL
REGULATIONS ON METHODS TO DETERMINE POLLUTANT DISCHARGE
LIMITS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Comment: This code amendment changes the technical definition of pH
and reflects a new technical interpretation of pH limits. The amendment
also clarifies reporting requirements for those industries required to have a
pretreatment agreement with the City.
io.:
ITEM NO. 11
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 5, "BUSINESS AND
LICENSE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 2, "VEHICLES FOR HIRE,"
SECTION 2, "APPLICATION," OF THE CITY CODE BY AMENDING THE
PLACEMENT OF TAXICAB DECALS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
ITEM NO. 12
Comment: This ordinance will change the placement of the taxicab decal
from the rear window to the front windshield. This is being done to
address concerns due to passengers removing decals from back windows.
The ordinance would be effective March 1, 1997, to correspond with
renewal time.
Action: '~x/~M~'~'{ ~/~--~--,~ //~'/" ~.
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3, "CITY FINANCES,
TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES,
CHARGES, BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE, TO
INCREASE WATER SERVICE CHARGES AND FEES IN IOWA CITY, IOWA.
(FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Comment: The proposed ordinance increases rates for water by 20%
effective on bills issued on or after March 1, 1997 (usage in February
1997). The rate increase as proposed will be applied as a flat increase
across-the-board to all existing rate blocks and minimum charges.
Correspondence regarding this item included in Council packet.
# 11 page 1
ITEMNO.]I CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 5, "BUSINESS AND
LICENSE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 2, "VEHICLES FOR HIRE,"
SECTION 2, "APPLICATION," OF THE CiTY CODE BY AMENDING THE
PLACEMENT OF TAXICAB DECALS.
Nov/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Norton.
Lehman/This was at the request of the cab companies I presume?
Thomberry/Yeah.
Lehman/Okay.
Nov/I can't imagine why anybody would want to remove those things.
Thomberry/Well, they do a lot of things.
Kubby/So does that mean that a pedicab has to have a front windshield to put a decal on?
Karr/No, we have different provisos if there is no windshield for the other vehicle.
Norton/He can put it on his hood ornmnent.
Nov/Okay. Any other discussion? Roll call- (yes). First consideration has been approved.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#12 p~el
ITEMNO. 12 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3, "CITY FINANCES,
TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES,
BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE, TO INCREASE WATER
SERVICE CHARGES AND FEES IN IOWA CITY, IOWA. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Nov/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Lehman. Discussion.
Kubby/We have talked extensively- Is this the place where the water meter charges are?
Atkins/If you want to raise that issue, it should be now.
Kubby/Because we had a lot of discussion last time about whether or not it was clear
there were enough positive benefits of these new meters that would place an
additional $110 cost on new construction for the telephonic reading of water
meters and we haven't gotten any new information from staff. It is forthcoming.
And so we kind of have to decide if we want to take it out now, put it back in if
we are convinced or if we want to leave it in and during second or third
consideration we can-
Thornberry/I wasn't here at the last council meeting.
Nov/We can take it out any time.
Thomberry/I wasn't here at the last council meeting but I don't think this is the time to
start-
Norton/Add costs, yeah.
Lehman/Wall, if we leave it in- We can take it out as late as the third reading and still
keep this thing going along together.
Kubby/The other way works, too. To take it out now and keep it moving forward and put
it back in if the staff information convinces us. Either way will work.
Atkins/I am assuming a simple motion to delete reference to the telephonic fees, charges
and other related items could be satisfactory. We would correct the ordinance
then.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 12 page 2
Nov/But why correct it and then redo it? If we continue with this and take it out next
time, we don't have to publish this ordinance again and again.
Atkins/That is what I am saying is correct it now and you have the first reading on the
ordinance as you want it to be.
Nov/We aren't sure that we want it to be that way. That is why I am saying let's not do it
now. Let's do it next time when we have some more information.
Baker/I would say I would support taking it out now because based upon the information
available to us, I wouldn't support it.
Arkins/You have expressed some reservations, you want some more information, that is
fine.
Nov/We have asked for more information and I prefer that we wait for that.
Kubby/It is the smallest of things to add back in. If it makes us feel better voting for first
consideration-
Karr/I believe if you add it back in because it is putting a fee on an entity, you would have
to do a p.h. again.
Nov/That is what I was trying to say. You said it so much better.
Council/(All talking).
Karr/Unless you are in agreement now, you do not want at all as Steve had indicated and
certainly that would be appropriate. If there is any doubt it would be better to
leave it in and amend it at the end so as to not to start over.
Kubby/We don't have time to redo the p.h. schedule to have them-
Karr/For just this one component.
Norton/Leave it in.
Lehman/Just leave it in.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 12 page 3
Nov/We can always take it out after we have our-
Norton/The handwriting is on the wall. I tend not to want it at all but let's leave it in until
file 3rd. But let's give notice that the handwriting for the section is on the wall,
right?
Nov/Yeah, we may not wait for the 3rd. It may come out earlier.
Atkins/And clearly if you say don't implement that portion, we won't implement that
portion. There is not a problem. It is not going to happen. We have stopped the
work.
Norton/What would that take? A resolution or just a motion?
Nov/Just a nod of forehead will take care of that one.
Arkins/I don't think that there is any doubt that there-
Thomberry/How much work is being expended to find out if this is-.'?
Arkins/Oh we are doing a staff report, Dean. We are not actually doing any field work.
We have stopped the field work on the thing. It is just to prepare a memo to give
you more info~xnation to work from. That is what the council asked for.
Norton/You have not bought 500 units yet?
Atkins/No, nothing like that.
Kubby/I plan on just leaving it in until we get information.
Thomberry/Okay, because I wasn't going to vote for this if that was in there.
Arkins/We are not heavily invested in it.
Kubby/But there is a lot of indication here that we are very much questioning it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 12
page 4
Nov/And if you vote no on first consideration, then it comes out, you can vote yes on
second consideration.
Kubby! Or the other way around.
Thomberry/Yeah, if before the third consideration the thing has not been taken out, I will
vote for third consideration.
Nov/Just however you feel better. Okay.
Kubby/There are a couple of other things about the ordinance that bother me. One is that
it continues to have a declining rate structure which no one else on this council
agrees with me that it is inappropriate to have larger water users pay less per unit
and the other thing that bothers me is that there is still a discrepancy and now even
a greater disparity previously about what a homeowner pays for a deposit and
what a tenant pays. we have eliminated the deposit for a homeowner assuming that
because you have home ownership, you are a responsible bill payer which may or
may not be true and that the tenant deposit has been reduced from $100 to $80. So
the disparity was $25 and now it is $80. That still grates on my and I will say that
every time we vote on this. But I am going to vote for this because I agree with
the 20% increase and that this has been a very painful, political, and practical
decision for this council made a couple of years ago to have these water rate and
sewer rate increases, to do these public health and safety projects. but by doing it
this way and having these kind of increases, we save millions of dollars later on
and 1 am glad we are sticking to our plan so far.
Nov/Not all of us agree with that but let's move on.
Baker/Well, no. l just want to clarify that it is my understanding that the difference
between the residential and the tenant deposit is not a reflection so much as of
their credit as it is the ability to collect.
Lehman/That is credit.
Baker/Well, no it is not. I apologize for phrasing it.
Nov/We can add it as a lien on the property if the bill is owned by a property owner.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 12 page 5
Kubby/And I understand that logic. I just have a real problem with city policy
institutionalizing discrimination based on the fact of property ownership or not. I
understand why it is this way and I disagree. I feel that is injustice and don't like it.
Nov/Roll call- (yes).
Karr/Could I have a motion to accept correspondence?
Nov/Moved and seconded (Vanderhoeffrhomberry) that we accept correspondence. All
in favor please say aye- (ayes). Motion carries.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 3, 1996
City of Iowa City
Page 9
ITEM NO. 13
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3, "CITY FINANCES,
TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES,
CHARGES, BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE, TO
INCREASE WASTEWATER SERVICE CHARGES AND FEES IN IOWA CITY,
IOWA. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Comment: The proposed ordinance increases rates for wastewater by
10% effective on bills issued on or after March 1, 1997 (usage in February
1997). The rate increase as proposed will be applied as a flat increase
across-the-board to all existing rate blocks and minimum charges.
ITEM NO. 14
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3, "CITY FINANCES,
TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES,
CHARGES, BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE, TO
CHANGE AND CLARIFY CERTAIN SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL CHARGES
AND FEES IN IOWA CITY, IOWA. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
ITEM NO. 15
Comment: The proposed ordinance corrects certain charges and fees for
solid waste disposal. There are no increases to the residential curbside or
landfill tipping fees.
Action: ~_ //~ ~ /~K'-//
CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 3 ENTITLED
"CI~ U~LITIES" OF THE CI~ CODE BY AMENDING ARTICLE A,
"GENE~L PROVISIONS" BY CHANGING CERTAIN SECTIONS
CONCERNING UTILITY ACCOUNT DEPOSITS AND OELINQUENCY
TIMEF~MES, (FIRST CONSIDE~TION)
Comment: The proposed ordinance reduces the length of time that
deposits are held for utilities from 18 months to 15 months and changes
the length time of when a utility account is considered delinquent from 30
days to 22 calendar days. Staff memorandum included in Council packet.
Action:
ITEM NO. 16 ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES.
a. Current vacancies.
Airport Commission - One vacancy to fill a six-year term
ending March 1, 2003. (Term expires for John Penick.)
(4 males and 0 females currently serve on this commission.)
# 14 page 1
ITEM NO.14 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3, "CITY FINANCES,
TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES,
BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE, TO CHANGE AND CLARIFY
CERTAIN SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL CHARGES AND FEES IN IOWA CITY, IOWA.
(FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Nov/(Reads agenda)
Thornberry/Is there any increase at all?
Nov/ Moved by Norton, seconded by Kubby. Now.
Thornberry/Are there any increases at all to the private waste haulers?
Yucuis/We would not be the ones that would set the fees for a private waste hauler.
Kubby/But the tipping fee is the same.
Arkins/The tipping fee remains the same.
Thornberry/The tipping fees are the same so- You know, when I get my bill from my
private waste hauler-
Kubby/It is not from this.
AtEns/He can't blame us. If he raises the fee, he can't blame us. Okay.
Thornberry/Okay.
Vande~hoef/It is for something else. They will figure it out.
Nov/If he wants to pay his employees, that is okay, isn't it?
Thornberry/They get paid.
Nov/Any other discussion? Roll call- (yes).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#15
p~el
ITEM N0.15 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 3
ENTITLED "CITY UTILITIES" OF THE CITY CODE BY AMENDING ARTICLE A,
"GENERAL PROVISIONS" BY CHANGING CERTAIN SECTIONS CONCERNING
UTILITY ACCOUNT DEPOSITS AND DELINQUENCY TIMEFRAMES. (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Nov/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Thornberry. Discussion.
Kubby/Don, why are we decreasing the amount of time citizens have to pay the utility
part?
Yucuis/When we changed from billing every two months to billing monthly, we didn't
change the amount of time between when they were billed and when it became
delinquent and since we are billing and the bill is due in 15 days, if we keep the 30
days, they automatically get another bill before it is actually considered delinquent.
We wanted to get it to a 22 day timeframe to be able to send out a notice saying it
is delinquent before they get another bill.
Kubby/It is really hard. A lot of bills you have 30 days and people like stick their bills in
their bill basket or however their system is at home and they sometimes pay all of
them at once. We need to do really good notification that we are decreasing the
amount of time people have so they can adjust their-
Yucuis/We are not decreasing when the bill is due. The bill is due approximately 15 days
at~er billing.
Kubby/So it is not the date that they pay but the date that it is considered delinquent
internally. That they then get notified you got to pay or- Okay, thank you.
Yucuis/The due date hasn't changed at all. It is just when is it considered delinquent.
Thornberry/How many delinquent notices are sent out before the water is actually turned
ott7.
Yucuis/We have to send out a notice that the bill is delinquent and if they don't pay after
that timeframe, then we have to send a-put a tag on the door.
Thomberry/Don't they get a second notice also?
This represents only a reasonably accurate trauscription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 15 page 2
Yucuis/I believe it is just the tag. Then five days after the tag- We have to notify them and
give them five days to remedy the situation and once that occurs then we go into
the shut off' procedure.
Thomberry/I have a tenant getting two notices before and it has never been shut off.
Geez, he is late every single month.
Nov/Instead of a tag?
Thomberry/YeaIt, a second notice and they requested in cash. Come down and pay in
cash. Don't even mail it. So ! just wondered, what is the length of time once you
are delinquent you have got-
Yucuis/They would already get another bill before they would have a shut off`notice. It is
just the way it is set up because we bill monthly.
Vanderhoef/How many days between the 22- When you send it out at 22 days with this
new ordinance, then until the tag would be put on?
Yucuis/It would probably be very close to when they get another bill. Approximately 30
35 days in that time period.
Thomberry/Thank you.
Nov/Any other discussion? Roll call- (yes). First consideration has been approved.
This represents only a reaso,~ably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17c
p~el
ITEM NO.17 CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS.
c. Consider three appointments to the Human Rights Commission to fill vacancies
for three-year terms ending January 1, 2000. (Terms expire for Osha Gray
Davidson, Alison Ames Galatad, and Andre Peary.) (1 male and 5 females currently
serve on this commission.)
Nov/ (Reads agenda).
Kubby/We had 15 applicants for three vacancies and an additional one tonight and this
always happens with the HR. Commission. There are so many more people who
would lika zo volunteer their time for these issues which really says something
about our community. It is going to be a difficult choice and I am thinking if we t~
to get a compliment of five people all at once, it may take us longer. That there
may be some people that we all agree to immediately that-
Kubby/Well, we need three people, not five.
Kubby/I am sorry, three people. I am sorry. There may be one or two that we could agree
on immediately and make it go faster.
Nov/Well, do you want to move one nomination and see if we can do that.
Kubby/I would like to nominate Derek Hall.
Norton/Second.
Nov/Okay, we have a nomination and a second for Derek Hall. Can we have some
agreement? Is everybody going to be comfortable with Derek Hall?
Council/(Yes).
Baker/I would like to nominate Jan Warren.
Karr/Will you be voting on these totally?
Nov/We are going to take three in a group on this one.
This represents only a reasonably accra ate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17c page2
Karr/Okay, so with one motion.
Nov/One motion for the three of them but I want to hear some nominations and then we
will get a motion to approve all of them. We have a nomination for Jan Warren.
Do we have a second? I don't hear a second, go ahead.
Thomberry/I would like to nominate Mary Theisen.
Kubby/I second that.
Nov/We have a nomination and a second for Mary Theisen. Does everyone feel like they
could go along with that one? All right, I hear heads nodding.
Vanderhoef/I would like to nominate Brenda Akins.
Kubby/I second that.
Lehman/Karen, you have got to remember gender equity.
Kubby/I am.
Nov/Gender equity applies with equal qualification, please.
Nov/I hear a nomination for Brenda Akins. I do not hear a second. Did we have a
second? I am listening.
Thomberry/How about Kate Corcoran?
Nov/Kate Corcoran just went to the Board of Adjustment.
Vanderhocf/Which I just really appreciate her.
Thomberry/That is right. You bet.
Nov/She talked on phone like she really would have applied for that one if she would
have been aware. So therefore we gave her that one.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the !own City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17c page 3
Norton/I want my thoughts to be understood. I think Brenda Akins is a fine candidate. !
have no problem with her. It is whether it is the best balance we could come up
with here.
Thomberry/Kate, you are going to be busy.
Nov/There is no question that we could use both of them.
Baker/I think her and Mary Theisen do bring a lot of the same skills, knowledge,
background.
Lehman/Do anybody know Kevin Allison?
Baker/I know him somewhat, a former student of mine 12 years ago.
Lehman/Well, he is probably too old.
Baker/He is a good man, good person.
Nov/I have no problem with Brenda Akins and I would second that one.
Baker/If we are going to do- I am re-nominating Jan Warren.
Norton/I second Jan, too, so we can get her in the hopper if we are looking for a little bit
more diversity.
Baker/Jan Warren.
Nov/All right, so we now have four nonfinations: Derek Hall, Jan Warren, Brenda Akins,
and Mary Theisen. We have to eliminate one of these.
Kubby/I would- Some of the qualifications are the same. It seems like working on the U.
of I. Status of Women brings a very active way of expressing human rights values
in an activist sense. Working on a committee, doing things to change the system
and it seems like something the FIR Commission needs One of the questions I
always ask a candidate for this particular commission is do you have the time and
energy to do education programming on the front end as well as the judicial
functions on the back end of discrimination. So I think Jan. I go with Jan.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the 1owa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17¢ page 4
Baked I don't want my comments to be ntisinterested by Kevin. I mean. I think Kevin
would do a fine job as well.
Norton/I don't know him.
Norton/I thought Mike Richards was a good candidate, too.
Council/(All talking).
Nov/We need to put in Derek Hall. A strong agreement on that one. I hear strong
agreement ton Derek Hall, Mary Theisen, Jan Warren. Does that sound right to
everybody?
Thornberry/By, we have got a lot of good people here.
Norton/Yeah, we sure do.
Nov/Yeah, this one is a very difficult decision.
Norton/What do we got? Dereck and Mary and Jan?
Nov/That is the one that I seem to hear agreements on and I want to be sure that
everybody is concurring with what I hear. Okay. Now, we have three people
nominated for the FIR Commission. We are going to vote to approve all three at
once.
Karr/We have three separate motions on the floor, though, Madam Mayor.
Nov/Oh, we can't do it then.
Karr/Well, that is what I was-
Nov/We have nominations, we do not have motions. I am asking now for a motion.
Okay. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Baker. All in favor please say aye- (ayes).
Motion carries.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17c page 5
Kubby/One quick comment. For people who applied who have a strong- Well, they all
have strong interests in human rights. Hopefully some of this educational
programming could- some of your energy would be welcomed by the Commission
to help with some of the educational programming. If you want to get involved
even though you are not appointed, I am sure your energy would be utilized by the
FIR Commission and the city would welcome you.
Norton/I thought we ought to consider adjunct appointments.
Lehman/I didn't even know you applied.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17d page 1
ITEM NO. 17d Consider three appointments to the Parks and Recreation
Commission to fill two vacancies for four-year terms ending January 1,2001, and
to fill one vacancy for an unexpired term ending January 1, 1998. (Terms expire
for Debora Liddell and Matthew Pacha. Jana Egeland resigned.) (5 males and 1
female currently serve on this commission.)
Nov/(R, eads agenda). So we need some nominations.
Vanderhoef/I would like to nominate Barb Endel for the one year unexpired term.
Norton/Second it.
Nov/I am sorry, I didn't hear that.
Vanderhoef/Barb Endel for the unexpired term.
Nov/Okay, Barbara Endel. Do we have a second?
Kubby/1 second.
Norton/Yes.
Nov/Okay. It has been moved and seconded. Okay. We have nominated Barbara Endel.
We need two more.
Vanderhoeff I would like to nominate Matt Pacha.
Norton/Second.
Kubby/And I would nominate Kathryn Wallace for the second four year term.
Norton/Second.
Nov/Okay.
Kubby/So l would move that we nominate Barbara Endel to the unexpired term and Matt
Pacha and Kathryn Wallace for the four year terms.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17d page 2
Nov/Is there a second?
Vanderhoef/Second.
Norton/Again, I want to comment that Kevin Readman and Jeff Knox are also two good
applicants. It is just, again, very nice to have such good options.
Nov/We have good applicants. No question about it and plus all were equally good. We
went for gender balance.
Thomberry/I don't think that should be an overriding criteria.
Kubby/That shouldn't be assumed for Dean.
Thomberry/I go for quality as opposed to gender balance.
Kubby/We all do.
Council/(All talking).
Nov/Okay, moving on. We have a motion and a second (Kubby/Vanderhoef). All in
favor, please say aye- (ayes). Motion carries.
This represems only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 3, 1996
City of Iowa City
Page 10
(2)
Johnson County/Iowa City Airport Zoning Board of Adjustment -
One vacancy to fill a five-year term ending February 26. 2002.
(Term expires for Scott Reynolds.) (3 males and 1 female currently
serve on this commission.)
These appointments will be made at the January 14, 1997,
meeting of the City Council.
ITEM NO. 17
CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS.
Consider one appointment to the Board of Adjustment to fill a vacancy
for a five-year term ending January 1, 2002. {Term expires for Tim
Lehman.) (2 males and 2 females currently serve on this commission.)
b. Consider one appointment to the Board of Appeals to fill a vacancy for
a five-year term ending December 31, 2001. (Term expires for Thomas
Werderitsch.) (5 males and 1 female currently serve on this
commission.)
c. Consider three appointments to the Human Rights Commission to fill
vacancies for three-year terme ending January 1, 2000. (Terms expire
for Osha Gray Davidson, Alison Ames Galstad, and Andre Peery.)
(1 male and 5~pf,.eb~al~ currently serve on this commission.)
·
d. Consider three app' intm~ents to the Parks and Recreation Commission
to fill two vacancies for four-year terms ending January 1, 2001, and to
fill one vacancy for an unexpired term ending January 1, 1998. {Terms
expire for Debora Liddell and Matthew Pacha. Jana Egeland resigned.)
(5 males and 1 female currently serve on this commission.)
e. Planning and Zoning Commission to fill
Consider one appointment to the
a vacancy for an unexpired term ending May 1, 1998. (Tom Scott
resigned.) (3 males and 3 females currently serve on this commission.)
# 17e page 1
ITEM NO.17e Consider one appointment to the Planning and Zoning Commission to
fill a vacancy for an unexpired term ending May 1, 1998. (Tom Scott resigned.) (3
males and 3 females currently serve on this commission.)
Nov/(Reads agenda). We had a very last minute application here. I have not spoken to the
woman who applied
Kubby/] would like to norairate Pain Ehrhardt.
Norton/I second.
Thomberry/Yeah, she is great.
Nov/She is okay?
Norton/She has been active in the Longfellow area.
Lehman/Terri is the one that has been on for a year7
Nov/No, we are talking about P/Z. (Can't hear).
Norton/It is getting late, Ernie.
Vanderhoef/1 guess maybe I would like to re-advertise this and just see of there are some
other candidates out there for P/Z. This is a huge responsibility and-
Thomberry/You have got an awfully good lady applying.
Norton/We sure do.
Kubby/We have got a very responsible-
Thomberry/You bet, she is great.
Council/(All talking).
Thomberry/She is super. She doesn't always agree with me and I don't always agree with
her but she-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the lows City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 17e page 2
Lehman/Nobody always agrees with you.
Baker/Boy, ifshe ever agreed with you, I couldn't support her.
Thomberry/I don't know if she ever has. But she has got a nice son.
Nov/Okay.
Kubby I move we appoint Pain
Thomberry/I will second.
Nov/Okay, we have a motion and we have a second. Is there any further discussion? Roll
call- no. Motion, all in favor, please say aye- (ayes). Motion carried.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
December 3, 1996
City of Iowa City
Page 1 1
Consider two appointments to the Senior Center Commission to fill
vacancies for three-year terms ending December 31, 1999. (Terms
expire for Frieda Shannon and Terri Miller.) (4 males and 2 females
currently serve on this commission.)
iTEM NO. 18 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
ITEM NO. 19
REPORT ON iTEMS FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND CITY ATTORNEY.
a. City Manager.
b. City Attorney.
iTEM NO. 20
ADJOURNMENT.
# l 8 page l
ITEM NO.18 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Nov/City Council Information. Do you want to start, Mr. Baker?
Baker/Just real quick. There was a letter in our packet from Charles Uble about the ACT
North Dubuque or North Dodge traffic light.
Arkins/Oh, Eble. Excuse me, yes.
Baker/]s that going to come back? ]s that a done deal or- Refresh may memory, is that a
done deal or arc we going to discuss that again.
Atkins/You have given authorization to start putting that project together. I mean it will
bc hack in front of you when the design work starts.
Baker/I just have to go back and check my old notes. Right at ACT and North Dodge.
Norton/Didn't we have a letter fi'om about this light causing some back up and
some difficulties, too?
Atkins/You got a Clancy. They live very near each other.
Vanderhoef/What ] would ]ike to know is that light going to have a protected turn signal
and will it be a trip light?
Atkins/My understanding it is to be demand actuated. That is to trip to get you in and get
you out. Otherwise it would be a free moving green.
Baker/So it will stay green most of the time?
Atkins/It will be green most of the time.
Vanderhoef/Will there be the arrow?
Nov/(Can't hear) and red will be on Dubuque.
Atkins/The turn arrows I don't know about. I am suspecting, because there is the
widening p]an in there, I am not so sure how that works out.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 2
Thomberry/How do they trip those lights when Dubuque Road is more or less gravel?
Arkins/That is a seal coat. I suspect what they will do, Dean, is when the intersection in
built, they will build the pavement back far enough to be able to cut the-
Norton/John was kind of concerned. Usually the staff cheeks with neighbors and I take it
in tiffs case, these people would be the neighbors.
Atkins/Lots of times.
Norton/Has he been concerned a long time?
Atkins/Mr. Eble has been very consistent, yes.
Baker/Okay, all right. I will call Rick and some other people and go back and refresh
myself about the whole issue.
Thornbeny/Are they going to start this summer? Is that the whole idea?
Arkins/I think we have it in FY98. It may not be this summer. It may be this of the
following.
Baker/What are we going to do tonight about the discussion of the PCRB?
Nov/Do you think you would like to postpone that one?
Baker/I would just like to get one thing settled. We can do it in two minutes.
Nov/Okay, we will do it then at the end.
Baker/Okay. I think we can do it in two minutes.
Nov/Well, we will talk about it later.
Baker/Well, when? Are we going to talk about it at the end of the meeting?
Nov/Today. At the end ofthe meeting.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#18
page 3
Baker/Are we going to close this formal meeting.'?
Kubby/We are going to re-adjourn our informal meeting to talk about the Police Citizen
Review Board.
Nov/Okay, let's move on.
Baker/Now wait a minute. Back up boog-a-lou. Wait a minute.
Kubby/I have never heard the mayor called that before.
Baker/It is an old term from the 60's. Back up boog-a-lou. Urn-
Kubby/I don't think that is quite the etiquette that we are use to.
Thomberry/That was Archie Bunker, too, wasn't it?
Baker/Your Honorable Boog-a-lou. That is better. No, I want to ask the question. I don't
want to wait until the end. I want to ask the question right now. I want to make
sure it is clear because I thought there was a majority on the council that said in
the complaint investigation process, that a member of the Citizens Review Board
would be part of the investigation from the beginning and that was not spelled out
in this policy statement. It may.just be that you were working with the same
assumption and you didn't spell it out. But is that what we-the assumption we are
working on?
Atkins/Yes.
Nov/Th/s can be discussed later, Larry. Let's move on to the council information.
Baker/I just want to clarify that one point.
Kubby/It was what we decided. There may be some discussion tonight about it, if that is
really the r/ght thing or not.
Atkins/You wanted an active role.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#18
page 4
Norton/Representatives of the Board, not (can't hear). But I agree with you, that is
coming up.
Baker/That is all I want to get clear. We can talk about it more. I would love to talk
about it more but that is all.
Nov/Dee.
Vanderhoef/Okay, I have 2-3 things. #1 I am very happy to see that we are going ahead
and purchasing the additional busses and retrofitting the busses and I wondered, it
would appear then that there is still the $150,000 in the Transit Fund.
Atkins/There will still be some moneys in that reserve. Two things, one is I really think
our Transit staff deserves a real 'that a boy, that a girl' for the work that they did
in maximizing those moneys. And if you are thinking about dipping into remaining
moneys, I would caution you until we finish the bid. We need a little room on that
one because it is going to be gone pretty soon and this is a big big project. Just be
a little cautious about that.
Vandefi~oef/My comment was going iv b~, m e there any other things that we ought to be
forward looking as they have already-
Atkins/Well, I think the thing that we have the most exposure on is the ventilating and
that is being dealt with virtually weekly. Joe submits a weekly report.
Norton/On which, Steve?
Atkins/The ventilation where the methane is leaking from the landfill and that is being
dealt with. As far as the federal moneys, I think we have pretty well done
everything that we can do and with these five on order, five new ones and the
retrofits, we are going to be way ahead of schedule.
Vanderhoeff 83-17, I would like those ratios.
Atkins/We want to jump on those right now.
Vanderhoef/I appreciate them getting on the stick and doing that ahead of time.
This repr~ents only a reasonably accurate transcripttoo of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 5
Kubby/Could we get an update sometime, at some point, about what the cause of the
methane coming from building on an old landfill? Was it a design flaw? And we
need to pursue that with the designers or whether it was just something we should
have expected and didn't and need to take care of it.
Arkins/I think it is something we should have expected and we did and now it is being
dealt with. I think there are some design questions. Yeah, I will prepare an update
for you on that.
Vanderhoef/And we also had a letter in the packet from the president of the Windsor
Ridge Homeowner Association in reference to the speed limit out on American
Legion Road.
Arkins/1 acknowledged the letter and told them we would do a traffic study and get back
with them.
Vanderhoef/Okay, good. Thank you ve.ry much.
Nov/I have a question on that while we are on that topic. Is that a city street?
Lehman/No.
Arkins/A portion of it is, American Legion is.
Lehman/Yeah but the portion you are talking about is in the county.
Nov/I think there is a county-
Lehman/I talked to Jim Brachtel about that.
Arkins/Oh, fine.
Lehman/And he has indicated to me that many times it was a fairly simple project for the
city and county to get together and agree on a speed limit and he was going to say
something.
Norton/Tomorrow night.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 6
Nov/There could be some county agreement?
Lehman/Yes.
Kubby/in the meantime, even with the lower speed limit, I don't think people are going to
right away drive a lower speed limit. I am not sure it is an appropriate road for
non-attended children to be on bikes on it. It is a dangerous road for me as an
experienced cyclist.
Norton/It is terrible.
Lehman/It is no place for a kid.
Kubby/I mean it is still a legitimate issue. I would like parents out there to be cautious
about letting their children ride their bikes on that road.
Nov/I agree.
VanderhoetY And I would like to compliment Transit on getting busy and getting the
shelter out to the Boyrum Southgate area.
Norton/Great.
Vanderhoef/Before cold weather got in here. That was wonderful to see that they were
able to do that right away.
And congratulations, Steve for your appointment to the Policy Committee for the
Iowa League of Cities.
Arkins/Thank you. It will be fun.
Vanderhoef/I think it was a good appointment.
Nov/His second year.
Atkins/I was on- I have moved up this year. This one is a little more important than last
yeaifs. At least that is what they tell me.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page7
Thomberry/Lot more time.
Atkins/Well, I don't know about that. No, it is the group that fashions the legislation for
the cities. I am real pleased to be appointed to that.
Norton/Last year on that task force about taxation.
Arkins/Yeah, I was the vice-chair of that. Thank you.
Vanderhoef/You're welcome.
Thomberry/Just a couple of things, let's see. There were- I mentioned last sumner about
the intersection of Gilbert and Kirkwood and they said wait until the students get
back and we will do a traffic count. Is that- Has that been done?
A/kins/To my knowledge, the count has been finished. As far as the report, I will get a
status on it because I am pretty sure we did the counting and I will get you a
report on that.
Thomberry/Okay. On a lighter side, I saw in the Press Citizen in the political cartoon that
President Clinton has switched his allegiance from McDonaids to Burger King.
That is all I have.
Atkins/Life is good.
Lehman/Steve, your road crew was out bright and early this morning. I left the house at a
little after 6:00 and all the snow routes were done. I mean they really were out.
Kubby/They were out at 10:30 last night.
Arkins/They did sanding last night because the weather changed. When we checked in
this morning there was some change. There was some thought that last night was
going to be-could be on the edge of freezing rain and it did snow. It wasn't much
of a snow.
Nov/There was some freezing rain. I shoveled snow and found underneath.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#18
page 8
Atkins/It was on the edge. I recall that because the sanders were out, I remember last
ra t.
Lehman/They do a good job.
Arkins/Good.
Nov/Yeah, they do a good job. I noticed them out repairing stuff today also. A water
main break. A couple of water mains break?
Atkins/This is the time of year that they start to pop. The freeze starts pushing into the
ground and you will see the breaks. It is the most thankless job in the world.
Nov/I saw two crews out working in the middle of the street and I assumed that was
what is was.
Thomberry/And if the breaks aren't too bad and if they happen on a Friday night, they
wait until Monday to fix them, fight.
Arkins/If they can turn it off, they can. A lot of times you can't.
Thomberry/There was a lot of water spilled.
Nov/Market Street was absolutely awful when I went through this attemoon. Anything
else? Karen-
Kubby/I wanted to remind people that I had requested if someone else was interested in
taking on my council role at HACAP at the regional and local commission level, to
let me know. And that because of my IdACAP responsibilities, I will not be able to
make the first set of hearings for the United Way funding on December 5. I have a
HACAP meeting and there are some Johnson County issues on the agenda that I
need to be there for. Or someone else could. I am pretty familiar with all of those
particular agencies of that night. But if someone else wanted to go, I could loan
you my book and you could ask questions. Dale will be there and can fill me in on
any exciting issues.
Thomberry/I am on that contmittee and boy, there are some of them that have- You
know, all of these agencies are real good and I had a problem with it last year, not
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 9
giving as much as wc probably should have. But, we did what we could. And some
are asking for as much as 300% increases this year.
Norton/It is going to get worse.
Thomberry/Coralville didn't go up a nickel. In fact, they went down over their previous
year's commitment. I don't what we are going to but you know, the money is not
flowing freely and they're being cut back quite a bit from the federal government.
There are some awfully good agencies. I would like to see- I still would like to see
them consolidate some of those. And Dee, you are familiar with that. If they could
consolidate some of that and use the same staff and things. If we cut down their
overhead. It is going to be difficult again this year. But it is very interesting. So
you will miss the first meeting.
Nov/Maybe somebody else can go.
Vanderhoef/This Thursday?
Thomberry/From 7:00 to 10:00.
Kubby/It is not that big of a deal because I am very familiar with all of the agencies that
are presenting that night and will feel free to call the directors if I have questions.
Nov/And they also tape those meetings, so you can borrow the tape.
Kubby/We got a letter, a bunch of stuff, from the Monday Foram, a group ofd.t. business
people who are talking about many issues. And at the end of this letter about
graffiti and security and cleanliness d.t. they are asking us to increase the number
of police in our force by a minimum of 20 officers. And that is an incredible
request and when we had funding from the federal government for eight officers,
we were discussing what happens after this three year grant is over. How many can
we afford at the end of three years? Maybe that is how many we should do and we
didn't. We took all of them from the grant available and we are going to have to
start paying for them out of our general property tax, plus any kind of increases
that we will have to accommodate growth and additional issues that growth brings
with it. And I guess I want us to communicate that a lot of these budgetary issues
they are asking us to look at, I don't want to look at in isolation. For me, I need to
look at these budgetary issues as part of the overall budget and want to put this
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#18
page 10
request in the hopper for budget time. And I guess I would like us, if the m~jority
agree with that sentiment, to officially correspond with the Monday Forum to say
these issues will be put in with all of the 500,000 other issues to look at the big
picture.
Nov/I wouldn't even say that much. I would say that we just cannot afford 20 more
police officers.
Kubby/Well, it may be that we do a few. I don't know that we can afford that even. But a
request was made and I think we should respond to just say that we will talk about
it at budget time and-
Atkins/I will encourage them to come to the budget hearings.
Nov/I would encourage them to come to the hearings but I would discourage them from
thinking that we can afford 20.
Norton/I thought we added six under the federal thing.
Kubby/Was it six? Okay.
Norton/But I don't think we ought to preclude the possibility of some. I don't think we
need to wait until July 1 for all budget things. I understand you would rather see
them in the whole package. We certainly will. But I think there are some things
that need to be done more promptly than that.
Kubby! I guess I am thinking of long term employment costs to us should wait for budget
time.
Norton/Okay.
Thornberry/Dale- Either Dale or Steve. Would it be possible of could they hire private
walking police?
Atkins/Could they have their own private security? Certainly, I can't imagine why they
wouldn't. I am not so sure- I think they could do it. I don't want to give that a lot
thought before we give it our blessing.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 11
Kubby/There is also a question of accountability, too. It is a real big question.
Vanderhoef/An Iowa City policeman could not be hired off-duty to do that?
Arkins/Oh, sure. Who is going to pay? You mean have the DTA pay for it? Trying to get
a funding mechanism from them to pay for it. Certainly, you can bring officers in
on overtime and have them pay.
Nov/We could remind them about SMID.
Thornberry/Not overtime. Privately hired.
Arkins/Are they city employees?
Thornberry/Yeah, that would be up to R.J. whether he would allow that as a second job
type thing. Right for off duty police?
Arkins/Let me give that some thought. I think we have some contract language.
Thornberry/But I mean there are some private agencies, too, that I had to employ d.t. and
I couldn't employ an off-duty policeman because I wanted them to where uniform.
So I hired a private company who wore a uniform
Arkins/I don't know, Dean, I will have to check.
Thornberry/And it wasn't that expensive really. And there are some pretty good
companies out there. If they wanted to do that, could they walk the streets is what
I am asking 1 guess?
Kubby/Should they be on the public r.o.w. telling people what to do?
Atkins/That is the question that I have.
Nov/Do they have any authority on the-
Atkins/Enforcement power I am sure would be limited.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 12
Kubby/And then just kind of the philosophical issue of accountability which could be real
important right now for this community.
Thomberry/But a presence is better than no presence at all.
Baker/Dean, I will let you know that as one of my former jobs I use to be a Pinkerton
Security Guard.
Nov/Oh well, in case you need another part time job.
Baker/Blue uniform and all.
Thomberry/Stripe down the side?
Baker/On the back.
Norton/Some of these d.t. things is absolutely critical to figure out where it is going to
come from. That is one of the reasons we are presumably doing some thinking
about sales tax.
Nov/Okay, now we are moving on.
Kubby/I have one last issue. And that is about our traffic calming evaluations criteria that
we got in not this packet but the packet before Thanksgiving and I had three things
I wanted to ask about. You probably don't have it with you but one is item 7
where it talks about the survey and the language here says a proposal for traffic
calming must be supported by a simple majority of the residents affected in order
to be considered and that I thought that we had decided that it was simple majority
ofthose who returned the survey.
Norton/Yeah.
Kubby! And that language is not correct in here and I would like us to direct staff to
change the language to reflect- To say simple majority of the residents who
returned the survey in order to be considered for implementation. It doesn't
guarantee implementation because in #8 it says No minimum number of responses
is required but a low response rate will be taken into consideration by council.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 13
Arkins/So the language says simple majority affected and you are saying the council's
interest is simple majority of the-
Kubby/Of residents returning the survey.
Norton/You can't force them to respond.
Arkins/Okay, I will check that for you.
Kubby/The second issue which may just be me needing some interpretation but the
choices for the questionnaire are 1-Support all proposed traffic calming measures.
Like if there are three things in combination, you support doing all of them. That
you support some of them or that you don't support any of them. My question is if
the majority says I like these three things. Does that mean that staff could choose
one of them to do? Or does it mean if you have checked offI like these three
things, that those three things will be considered by council in conjunction with
each other.
Norton/I thought they were alternatives.
Kubby/You got one choice.
Atkins/I think you answered your own question by saying it is considered by council. We
would get that information back to you. I am assuming that you would have to
make that choice.
Kubby/But the choices on the postcard are acceptable to staffI am assuming. That
combination A, combination B, single C and not all D. That if the majority picks
one of those, then that is the one we mainly consider. Is that correct?
Arkins/That is the expression of preference.
Lehman/Oh, I would imagine that would be a recommendation from staff because there
might be times where you would use more.
Arkins/And that is their call.
Kubby/I am saying if people vote for that, that is what we will look at.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1~96.
F120396
# 18 page 14
Vanderhoef/On the combination kinds of things, Karen, the more you put into a
combination, obviously the more expensive it is going to get. So, I am not sure
whether the residents are the people who should be making the choice of what.
Council/(All talking).
Vanderhoef/But if you put it on the card as a choice, then will they listen that the council
is going to do what the majority chose?
Kubby/Right. But I am saying that the choices on the card will be things that technically
are acceptable to staff that will work for that neighborhood and that neighborhood
specific situation. It may come to us and financial constraints or decisions may
change that to a different choice but that we will acknowledge that the
combination choices if chosen by the majority will be acknowledged that they
wouldn't be separated out unless- There might be some reasons to separate them
out on our end but not on staff's end I guess is my question. And I think I have got
the answer. I am just making things more complicated.
Norton/One reason it is getting difficult to do that survey, that is why I think they ought
to not lay out quite so many options.
Vanderhoeff That is what I am trying to say, too.
Norton/It gets more difficult than you want.
Vanderhoef/You do or you don't want traffic calming would be a whole lot-
Kubby/I think- Neighborhoods have more desires than that, to say yes or no to some
traffic calming. They may like one strategy but not another. I don't think it is as
simple as do you want traffic calming or not. That is not what this process is all
about. It is involving them and helping figure out what would work best for their
neighborhood and what is their preference.
Vanderhoeff Then I guess I would list them separately and not in combination.
Thomberry/They might want a stop sign. They might want a speed hump. They might
want whatever. Is that what you are saying7
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 15
Kubby/But the policy as stated is that there might be a combination that staff recommends
would work quite well. So I don't want to limit staff to that.
Norton/We will just have to take cost effectiveness into it. I mean this is just guiding us.
Their feedback is just guiding us for our decision. It is not controlling. They are
going to have to understand that because it costs money.
Thomberry/We could have Doug Boothroy come in and explain it to us so we can really
understand it.
Kubby/My last question. I had a third question about the traffic calming and that was
specifically for the Penny Bryn Neighborhood. That we had decided that we would
start at criteria #5. But criteria #6 is that staff will meet with the neighborhood and
determine which measures are reasonable for evaluation and I feel like that has
already kind ofbecn done. So are we going to make, like have a pretend meeting
so that we do #6? It doesn't make sense. That maybe we should-
Nov/No, the survey should come before that, shouldn't it?
Kubby/No, the neighborhood association-
Norton/They have already expressed themselves.
Kubby/Right, now it is time for the postcard survey to say humps or no humps or humps,
hums and crosswalks, or nothing. There is two things in that particular
neighborhood that has been talked about. The neighborhood has expressed a
particular interest in just the humps, speed humps. I should say speed humps.
Atkins/So your point is that we say-
Kubby/My point is Penny Bryn is further along the process than what we had talked
about last time.
Atkins/I will confirm that and get something back to you.
Kubby/And that the postcard needs to have choice of just humps on it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
page 16
Arkins/Postcard is much more specific.
Lehman/But would you send the postcard out before you met with the neighborhood
explaining all the options?
Kubby/No, the way we talked about this last time is that you meet with the group of
people who wanted it, you discuss options, staff decides the best options for the
neighborhood, taking into consideration the neighborhood desires, and then you
send the postcard out. Then it comes to us.
Lehman/Okay, that is fine.
Norton/Because I know the staff added to it, for example, neckdowns at the entrance to
that street from Benton Street.
Nov/They may find people who like that even though the most vocal of those people have
said they want speed humps. There may be other people who want the narrowing
at the corner.
Kubby/Right. But what I wanted to insure is that just speed humps is an option on that
postcard because that is what the neighborhood has said.
Lehman/One of the options.
Nov/They could put others.
Nov/Okay. The way it sounded at the beginning was that it was the only option.
Kubby/No. I am requesting that to make insure that just speed humps is one of the
options on the postcard survey. I will shut up.
Nov/Norton-
Norton/Well, this is one I should have asked about earlier. It came up in connection with
my heavy duties on the Emergency Management Commission and because I
brought back some information fi'om a meeting about a briefing from the state, 1
thought was very effective for council people. At least they have got excited about
it and they have written to the state and the state would be happy to come down
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18
page 17
and give a briefing to assembled dignitaries like yourselves. And people from
various communities around. So 1 am suppose to take back is there any interest,
would you show up? I said don't even think about a day long presentation. Would
you sit still for a few hours?
Kubby/And what would this be about again. Well, it would be on emergency management
procedures. What a council person ought to know about emergency management.
You know, what to do. Where. It is a very interesting briefing but I don't want to
overdo your heavy duty time schedule. You don't have to agree just to please me.
Understand.
Thomberry/Well, Dee. I think this is important, you know. It is something that we
haven't had for a while and that is a major catastrophe other than a flood or a
tornado.
Norton/It is kind of a briefing on where you might be at. Who is on first.
Thornberry/What do we do or what are our responsibilities and what should we be doing?
Norton/I say, if you did it, we would like it to be a couple of hours. I don't want to spend
a half a day if I can help it.
Kubby/I think that is a good point.
Nov/A good point.
Norton/So there might be some interest. At least I wouldn't be the only one to show up.
Okay. And it is also a chance to meet your colleagues.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 96-142 SIDE 1
Norton/Railroad crossing. I drive across it on purpose now.
I also want to clarify a point that has been some stickiness about this West High
traffm light or the putative West High traffic light. As I remember we broke that
project down and spent some good money, fight, to keep that option open for a
light at West High. We had asked the School Board for some assistance on either
the light and or liability, 1 take it, and got a negative response. Big interest in the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996,
F120396
//18
page 18
light, no interest in the money or the risk sharing. I think we put in the facility so
the signal could be put in there. It does not now meet the "11 warrants" for a
signal. What I am interested in knowing and there are several people who have
called and I expect more may. What I am interested in knowing is what is the
actual change to us if we were to go ahead and put a light in, let's say, with or
without school assistance. If we were to put a light in without the warrants and an
accident were to ensue, I understand that our liability would be bigger than have
the warrants been met. Is that a fact or-?
Arkins/That is a fact.
Norton/What is the data for the change in our liability?
Arkins! As far as data is concerned, I can't ell you. I do recall a specific incident here in
the state.
Norton/We hear a rumor that Waterloo had a suit that somebody was-
Atkins/Yes.
Norton/You see what happened there was- I am trying to take a minute but it is
complicated. There was a light there that was so inappropriate to the situation,
right? Somebody or people started to ignore the light and got into an accident and
the lawyer for the person who was killed, the family, found that it was installed
without warrants and ostensibly the liability. but I didn't know whether that is kind
of a rumor or a fact. Because, see, I was thinking of a light that had been there that
would only been active during the appropriate hours. Understand it would be a
regular light during the time, ten minutes twice a day apparently that the traffic is a
problem.
Lehman/Yeah, I think you could make a really good argument that if you come into town
during school hours, you are a stranger or coming into town in the middle of the
day and you go home during school hours, there was no light there when you came
in and-
Norton/No, there would be a light there all of the time but you would have a different
phasing at the different time, that is all. In other words, it would be by and large
green on Melrose most of the time but during the school time, turn out time at
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 19
8:00 or whatever, 3:00, it would have a turn signal and more controlled. So it
would be- I am assured by Rick that you could have a more sophisticated light
there. So I am just nervous. One of the warrants is that you have had an accident
or two. It would be grim to meet that warrant.
Thornberry/What about a less sophisticated light like a flashing Dight during certain hours.
Would that be a problem, Steve?
Norton/Rick said they talked about flashing yellow. My main concern is what I am asking
you guys to do is to say could we get- I would like to see some harder data on this
question of liability. I think-
Arkins/Well, I don't think it exists.
Kubby/All I need is for our Risk Manager to say if you don't meet the warrants you have
higher liability.
Norton/Is that true or false?
Lehman/Yeah but the other thing, as I understand it Steve, we use that intersection for
lights at this point in time, don't we owe the federal government back?
Norton/No, we finessed that by putting in that section on our own.
Lehman/The whole section?
Atkins/We split the project before it got there. So we sacrificed a portion of our federal
aid in order to allow some local decision making. We did that.
Norton/There has been an implication in the Press that we were insensitive to this issue
and we have gone quite a ways already in trying to get ready for it.
Kubby/We tried to have a partnership with the school district in making this happen.
Norton/Which incidentally reinforces that after we talk with the county tomorrow, we had
better get together with the school board. There is a couple of issues coming. We
apparently did them a fair courtesy on Rohret Road.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 20
Kubby/Fair courtesy. $3 million courtesy.
Norton/We got some goodies coming. But anyhow, I kind of would like to see that light
in there. A sophisticated light that would not hold up traffic inordinately or
inappropriately during most of the day that would be- since that queue now goes
well past the left turn queue.
Kubby/We are ready to do that with cooperation from the school district.
Baker/I think we ought to put a light in there as soon as we get sort of access, secondary
access on the subdivision on to that.
Thomberry/Yeah, that they won't let us use.
Norton/Well, okay. All I am interested in, Steve, if we can get anymore data on this
liability question. I mean I don't know what does it mean?
Atkins/It is a legal question.
Mitchell/They are going to have to show that we were negligent at a minimum in
installing this light at that location and it sounds to me that we have more than a
reasonable basis for putting a light there and so I don't see any liability on the part
of the city.
Norton/This is my point. I don't see why we have suc'l enhanced liability over the light
that met the warrants and the light that didn't meet the warrants.
Atkins/That has not been the case.
Norton/Let's look into that, can we?
Kubby/Actually we have made decisions, that is why we are here. That even though the
warrants are met for our stop sign program in the neighborhoods. The warrants are
not met, we have chosen because of greater community values, to take on the
additional risk because of the perceived benefits that will come from those traffic
controlling measures.
Norton/Well then, why don't we put in the light?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 21
Kubby/Well, we could and we said that we would if the school district would help us pay
for it.
Baker/At least share those values with us.
Kubby/We have incurred additional cost. We have agreed to pay for part of a light and
part of the liability. We are asking for some help.
Baker/And we have already absorbed an increase cost.
Norton/If that is the question. ! just don't want us not putting in the light simply because
of the liability issue. If you say it is a political issue for getting something out of the
school board to share this, both the liability-
Baker/Well, it is also- Wasn't the road reconstruction itself improved, visibility?
Norton/Visibility, yes. There is still a problem. It is admitted that there is still a queue that
is quite long.
Nov/But it is a problem and it is going to be a last minute hurry up get to school problem
whether or not there is a light.
Norton/I am interested in a light there and I would take it with school help if necessary,
without it if that is the only option. That would be my feeling. I don't know what
to do.
Kubby/At some point, you know, Iowa City takes on a lot of the responsibilities for some
other jurisdiction. For example, with the county, at Mormon Trek and Highway 1.
It was a dangerous intersection and part of it was the city's responsibility because
of growth we have allowed there and promoted there and some of it is from
increased growth in the county. People coming and going. And they wouldn't do
it. Well, we annexed the comer, spent the money, reconfigured it, spend Iowa City
and Iowa City Road Use Tax money and now we are doing it for the school
district. At some point we need some partnerships on the money side, not just the
agreement that yeah, it would be great to have. But on the financial conunitment.
To say tlfis is important to the school district so much that- We are not asking
them to pay the whole thing. We are asking them to be in partnership.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996,
F120396
# 18 page 22
Norton/Well, it is the matter of the signal cost. It is not the issue here. Isn't it the liability
issue?
Kubby/The signal is a $50,000.
Norton/The liability is more-
Kubby/I would find a $50,000 contribution a very hefty movement for me-
Council/(All talking).
Baker/I wouldn't dismiss the liability issue out of hand because we have got, again, we
have had other opinions that said that it was a significant issue.
Norton/Well, two things I would like. One is a letter, another letter to the school board
because again, let's ask them again, Larry. Here we are. We are ready to go.
Kubby/There is new people there, too. So that is another reason to ask again. There are
some new players.
Norton/There is new people there. Let's put it to them again, because publicly speaking, I
mean, we are ready.
Lehman/The ball is really in their court. They know where we stand.
Kubby/The new people may not be aware of this past discussion.
Leturiah/Jerry knows.
Baker/Jerry certainly knows.
Kubby/Jerry may not be passing it on.
Nov/Jerry is not interested in doing it.
Norton/What would it cost to send them another letter to say hey, we are hearing from
people about this light?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 23
Baker/At our last meeting I suggested to members of the audience that one of the things
they ought to do is go talk to the school board. We hear them but they also have to
go talk to the school board.
Norton/I would urge a letter and the other thing I would urge is a further check on this
liability issue so that isn't just a kind of red herring running around. That we have
more legal evidence.
Lehman/Well.
Nov/We have told the neighbors and the parents it is something that the school board can
help with and I don't know if they have or have not talked to the school board but
the board said no.
Lehman/If the liability isn't a real issue, why did the school board refuse to take half of it?
Norton/Well, I don't know. I got to- The last letter explicitly discussed liability as well as-
Atkinat It is an issue.
Norton/Did it give them any number, upper bound on the liability?
Atkins/I don't know how you quanti~ that.
Norton/All right, there seems to be enough agreement on- 1 hope there is at least four
people that say let's do something. Either if you guys don't write the school board,
I will go talk to them.
VanderhoefJ well, I would like to also know and have them know how much money we
lost by not-
Norton/By dividing that project.
Vanderhoef/We are talking about $50,000 for a light and how much have we already
spent to accommodate them?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 24
Norton/I think that would be very well done. I think I agree with that entirely, Dee. We
should tell them what we have done and what we are ready to do.
Kubby/How about a letter outlining the past history and the amounts of money and a
request for them to be in a partnership with us on installing the light.
Vanderhoef/When I hear how much it is, I will decide whether I even want a partnership
or whether we will allow it if they pay for it.
Council/(All talking).
Norton/If they want to meet with us to discuss this matter.
Baker/Their response has always been it is the city's responsibility.
Arkins/One of the other angles we reminded them it is a traffic signal at a driveway,
theirs. Not a street, it is a driveway. We tried to make it a street-
Kubby/And they said no.
Atkinrd They said no.
Nov/I think that we probably could ask again if we can make it a street because then the
traffic signal will probably have more warrants.
Atkins/Oh, I don't think there is any doubt.
Vanderhoefff And we definitely will have more traffic which was pan of the reason that I
understood t, he DOT wouldn't allow the light in the first place.
Arkins/The DOT had indicated at the time of the design they would- They said no way,
we are not about to do this and we were told by them at the time of design that we
are not going to be a party to this because we are not going to accept any liability
either.
Norton/Here we are at loggerheads. Well let's write a letter and let's find out about the-
Atkins/You want a letter drat~ed?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
#18
page 25
Nov/Yes, draft a letter.
Arkins/I will prepare the same letter.
Kubby/It sounds like Dee would like to see the numbers before the letter goes out. So
maybe you could just draft, it comes to us and then we can decide whether we
want to send it or not.
Arkins/Why don't we just have it for the next meeting?
Norton/That would be nice.
Nov/With numbers in it, right.
Vanderhoe0' With numbers.
Mitchell/I will get back to you on the liability issue.
Norton/Thank you, Dennis.
Vanderhoef/Thank you.
Norton/Let me quickly- I, well, I guess ! will stop on the rest of them. I don't know- We
are not going to have ~ime to prepare for our discussion with the county tomorrow
night. I guess we are going in there not knowing where we stand on sales tax,
where we stand on most of the issues that we want to share with them.
Kubby/That happens a lot.
Norton/I guess we will just talk.
Vanderhoef/Do that in informal.
Nov/It is a discussion. It is not a decision making.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 26
Norton/Very good. I think that is wise. I waDt to say that I had an interesting tour of`the
property that we have been talking about for industrial expansion. Have you all
done that? Take a look at that property. It is kind of interesting situation out there.
Nov/Which one?
Thomberry/I haven't had a formal one but I have informally, yeah. It is workable.
Norton/Yeah, it has some interesting features. All right. And thanks for the community
service, Larry, whoever wrote that letter to the judge tr34ng to find out what about
community service. Did you see a letter?
Vanderhoe~ Linda did. It was a nice letter.
Norton/As an option.
Kubby/Add painting, wail painting.
Nov/We will definitely add wall painting.
Norton/Okay, Naomi.
Nov/That may be our only choice f,or graffiti. Okay. I have a couple of'little things. Steve
Arkins received a postcard from Susan Horowitz when she was in Japan. So
everybody may read that.
I have a catalogue of'tourism items fi-om the State of Iowa. They all say Iowa,
You Make Me Smile. Anybody who wants a catalogue for tourism items, may
have that.
Kubby/I always liked A Place to Grow much better.
NortoT# I loved that much better. I think A Place To Smile- I like A Place to Grow.
Nov/Well, somehow somebody else didn't like it.
Thornberry/What was the thing about the mind?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
# 18 page 27
Nov/There is someone, I don't know where, who says you have to change these things on
a regular basis. So maybe there are having a close out sale and next year they will
have a new slogan.
Norton/I did like A Place To Grow.
Thomberry/Did you hear Larry's sugges ion? Iowa More Pork Than People.
Baker/That is an old one.
Nov/That is kind of stating the obvious.
Norton/Well, you know the best was Iowa-Gateway to Nebraska.
Nov/Okay. On a more serious note I went to see the AIDS Quilt at the An Museum on
Sunday and it was much smaller than the one that had been at the Union a few
years ago but it is still very moving. Very very moving.
We also have a request to lobby the state government on local control of tobacco
because the state preempts us on local control of tobacco sales and because a
young lady who grew up in Iowa City has moved out to Milwaukee and has an
appointment for doing this kind of thing for the American Cancer Society and she
visited over the weekend and she is a friend of my daughter and she is a friend of
Jim Fausett's daughter and she lobbied two Iowa mayors. And she is planning to
lobby other Iowa mayors. So I am going to give everybody the materials that she
gave me to fill out this week and we should consider whether or not we want to
approve a resolution and send it to the Governor. Jim Fausett said that he thought
Coralville would approve it also but he wouldn't mind if we did it first and we will
maybe change the wording or maybe shorten it. But I am going to give it to
everybody as is first/If we can do this on a group basis it might be a good idea.
We could get Coralville, North Liberty and who knows who else and send it all in
the same envelope.
Also the Urban Mayors are going to meet with the Governor on Friday to talk
about local property taxes. I am not sure yet exactly what time but I have heard
they have set up a meeting for Friday. So I will get more information for that. That
is it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
//18
page 28
Norton/May 1 find out if anyone is going to the ground breaking in the morning?
Nov/Yeah.
Thornberry/We have food.
Nov/And be sure you don't ~t more than $2.99 worth.
Baker/You can have my share.
This represents only a reasonably accurate trauscription of the Iowa City council
meeting of December 3, 1996.
F120396
City Council Work Session Agendas and Meeting Schedule
1996
IDacember3
5:00 p.m.
5:30 p.m.
7:00 p.m.
TuesdayI
Special City Council Meeting - Council Chambers
Executive Session - Land Aquisition and Imminent Litigation
Special City Council Work Session - Council Chambers
Times Are Approximate
5:30 p.m.
5:35 p.m.
5:50 p.m.
6:00 p.m.
6:10 p.m.
6:20 p.m.
6:50 p.m.
Review Zoning Matters
Burlington Street Median Landscape
Hickory Hill West
Graffiti
Voucher Payment Standard and Utility Allowance
PCRB
Consider Appointments to the following Boards/Commission: Board of
Adjustment (1), Board of Appeals (1), Human Rights Commission (3),
Parks and Recreation Commission (3), Planning and Zoning (1), Senior
Center Commission (2)
Regular Forntai City Council Meeting - Council Chambers
] December 4
5:45 p.m.
- 7:00 p.m,
Wednesday]
Special City Council Work Session - Joint Meeting with Johnson County Board
of Supervisors., Council Chambers
LDecember 9
5:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m.
Special City Council Work Session - Joint Meeting with Library Board -
Council Chambers
Monday]
December 16
7:00 p.m. Regular City Council Work Session - Council Chambers
MondayI
December 17
7:00 p.m.
Regular Formal City Council Meeting - Council Chambers
TuesdayI
]D?cember 24-25
Tuesday and WednesdayI
CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY - CITY OFFICES CLOSED
[December 30 - 31
Monday and TuesdayI
COUNCIL MEETINGS CANCELLED - HOLIDAY
1997
[January1
Wednesday]
NEW YEAR'S DAY - CITY OFFICES CLOSED