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October 18, 2004 City Council Work Session Page 1 of 38
October 18, 20004
City Council Work Session
6:30 PM
Council: Bailey, Champion, Elliott, Lehman, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn
Staff: Atkins, Dilkes, Johnson, Franklin, Helling, Karr, Severson, Craig, Davidson
Tapes: 04-60, Both Sides; 04-61, Side 1
Elder Services Presentation
Lehman: Let's start. Who's making the presentation tonight, Elder Services?
O'Donnell: Elder Services.
Lehman: Before we do that, ifthere are any questions relative to the, with your permission,
relative to the Library County Contract, Susan Craig is here and needs to be at
another meeting. So, ifthere's any questions from Council, we should have them
now. Ifnot, Susan, thanks for coming. (Laughter).
Craig: Thanks for having me.
Lehman: You're welcome.
Vanderhoef: I'm not real pleased with that contract, but I don't know what to do about it.
Champion: I stopped at the library to drop off some stuff and I think the new signage and
parking spaces is done really well.
Lehman: Elder Services - I'm sorry.
Bailey: I'm really glad that the library is going to be able to take fine payments over the
web soon. Really happy about that.
Champion: Somebody that -
Bailey: Since I always have fines.
Champion: Me too.
Boyd: Good evening and thank you for having us. I am Susan Boyd and I am President
of Elder Services Board of Directors. We started.. .it's an organization that
started close to twenty-four years ago, when the School of Social Worker - Social
Work faculty decided that they were very concerned about the plight of older
people and of keeping them in their own homes if possible. Even though years
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have passed and our staff has grown and we are in a different office space, we
have the same mission - to keep older people in their own homes as long as
possible, as long as comfortably possible. When I was asked to serve on the
board, I said yes right away because I remembered my father. After his stroke, he
wanted more than anything to stay in his own home and it looked as ifhe would
have to go to some nursing sort of nursing home. He was in Minneapolis and I
went up there, and with my sisters, I left notes on nursing school bulletin boards, I
ran an add in a newspaper, I went to a vocational school- somehow we got
enough people to help in the home and many of them stayed for as long as he
lived. It was certainly a big help in having us (unclear) as a family and for him to
be in a house where, instead of a kind of communal dining room, he could eat in
his own dining room and have somebody who was working at the house fix him a
little meal, and he could ask friends ifhe wanted to. So, this is certainly a big
plus for a community to have an organization that can provide this kind of service
and we have.. .let's see.. .not only is it a wonderful community service in what in
does but it also saves money for the community. Studies have shown that care at
home costs approximately $500 per month and a nursing home, incredibly
enough, is $3500 a month. It is important, too, that we don't isolate our older
population and if they can part of their community, it certainly is important. Elder
Services now has many services working towards this goal. We have (I've got to
read this) a geriatric care management program, which brings many services to
the client and the client often is, can choose, which one's he wants and how he
wants to go with it. We have the RSVP program - the Retired Senior Volunteer
Program - and this is for the active senior who needs and wants something to do
to help the community. These people do everything from answering the Domestic
Violence hotlines to serving Meals on Wheels, which is one of our programs, and
helping in the schools with many reading programs for children. Our board
consists of fifteen people. It's a real working board. Until, well, I'm one of the
active seniors on the board and we decided we better get younger. So, we have
some new board members now that we're very proud of and they are in their
thirties and forties. So, we are pleased with this. Among the members of the
board.. .Mayor of Oxford, for our rural perspective.. .we have a young lawyer, we
have a doctor who is very interested in geriatric medicine and is very helpful, we
have a University ofIowa Foundation staff member, because life is very
competitive and it's nice to get a few ideas on how to finance what it is that we
are doing, someone with a background in public relations, we have a vocational
rehabilitation expert - a young woman, very young - and let's see, who else...I
think I have about everybody.. .oh, a nurse and a teacher. Our annual meetings
are held on the fourth - we meet monthly - and our monthly meetings are on the
fourth Tuesday of the month, out in our headquarters, which is now on Sierra
Court, which is on the road to Kalona, right beyond the interchange. Our best
meeting ofthe year is our annual meeting, which is a luncheon in November. All
of you City Council members have received invitations and I hope you will come
this year. It's very interesting because our staff discusses the services that they
are doing for the older population and many of the board members, who talk to
them quite frequently, don't realize all that is being done. The staff and the board
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relationship is just great. They are wonderful about telling us what it is when we
have questions about what their programs are. They are also very, very generous
in giving their time to unfold rented folding chairs and baked cookies when we
have our annual little benefit. They also give time and have done a lot recently in
serving on a committee, which is a big step we're taking. It's a committee that is
the Strategic Planning Committee, which we started meeting this Fall. This big
project has been meeting at least weekly - both board and staff members, with
David Purdy, our Executive Director, to form a three-year strategic plan to define
the goals that we want to achieve. Now, there are a lot of goals that we want to
achieve. We would like to extend our caregivers program, we would like to have
more skilled workers to help at home for our housebound people, we would like
to have more hours for the memory loss specialist, we need more marketing to
improve our outreach and raise money - because every organization in town is
trying to raise money and we need a lot of advice on how to do it ourselves. We
have to think about board development and staff development, but it can't all
come first.. . and we realize this. These goals and a list of them are going to come
to each board member this coming week and each of us, and also each staff, will
have a chance to choose the priority and the decision will be made by the
committee, but we'll all have a voice of what it is that we feel our organization
should put first. And, as a first for us, we are following the Iowa.. .Iowa's brand
new guidelines on non-profits.. . and these will be published and coming out later
this year.. . and we are probably the first agency in the state, as far as we know, to
do this. Thank you.
Purdy: You asked us to talk about the outline, the blue packet is a much more detailed
description of the programs that we often and then the second white sheet is a
little more detail on the budget. Susan's touched a lot of things that we do at
Elder Services. As she mentioned, we initially started working with seniors in
their home, but realizing that caregivers make up 80% of the people that provide
care to seniors, we also expanded in to the caregiver program a couple of years
ago. As she mentioned, the various programs that we offer... the RSVP, the
nutrition programs - including the congregate meals and the Meals on Wheels -
geriatric care services, case management, chore and respite programs, memory
loss, small housing repair, and many others.. . and I should mention, since Bob is
here, that we do do the service coordination at Ecumenical Towers, which I know
is a project that helped get started twenty years ago. We serve in all nine
counties. We serve a little over twenty-two hundred people...in Johnson County
approximately sixteen hundred thirty eight.. . and in Iowa City, twelve hundred
and ten. So, of the all the people that we serve, Iowa City makes up
approximately fifty-eight percent of that. The budget, which is on the second
white page that I handed out, our budget is. . . projected for this year is $1,506,
745. That gives you a little more detail about the breakout.. .but the way that
services for the elderly are set up.. .initially, twenty-some years ago, they were set
up so that they were primarily federally-funded programs.. .so approximately 40%
of that one and a half million comes from the Older Americans Act program that
comes down through the Heritage Agency on Aging.. . and then we have twenty-
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seven other funding programs. So, we have twenty-eight different funding
programs to help Elder Services advance our mission. We now have a staff of
fifty- five. Five years ago, before our previous director, we had staff of seven.
We now have a staff of fifty-five. . . all but two of them work outside of our Iowa
City offices. In addition, the agency provided almost eleven thousand hours of
volunteer time last year. And I know Ijust mentioned some ofthe collaborations
that we're doing... we collaborate with pretty much every social service agency in
the county. RSVP does a lot of collaboration.. .intergenerational programs in the
schools.. .working with Big Brothers Big Sisters.. .our Memory Loss program-
we just found out today that we got a small grant so that our memory-loss
specialist can work with one ofthe neighborhood centers... we do a lot of
collaboration with the City of Iowa City regarding the Senior Center. . . Linda and I
have talked about - we know that they're having problems budget-wise - we've
talked about establishing various programs where we would do the catering at a
much-reduced cost so that they could bring more people in there. We work, I
mentioned down here, MDT, which is, stands for multidisciplinary team.. .it's
basically a meeting that we have every month where we discuss cases of elder
abuse and neglect and we have several representatives from the Iowa City Police
Department and many, many more. The impact on the community ranges from
the RSVP program with seniors and children, the case-management and geriatric
services.. . for someone to qualify for Medicaid Waiver Program in Iowa, they
have to come through the case management program, so our agency is the focal
point for $1,500,000 offederal money that comes down to the county. The length
of time that we sustain an older adult, after they enter case management, is 22.4
months. Finally, just some future challenges. Obviously, limited
funding. . ..every agency obviously has limited funding. The federal government
is really putting a cap on funding programs for older adults. We've seen an
increasing number of people with multiple problems being solved... we see an
increasing number of people with mental health issues, with substance abuse
issues, increasing number of people with elder-abuse and neglect.. .people are
living longer, so we are having to serve the very, very old, the number of 85+ -
Iowa leads the nation in the number of 85+ - and then the baby-boomers are just
around the corner. I was working with Tamara, from the Planning Department,
and we were working on the next City Steps, and I was just astounded at about
how many people are now currently in the fifty-five to sixty-four age category.
All of those things are coming at us for the future. Lastly, the City ofIowa City
money is very important. Local funding is the glue that holds everything
together. I just kind of ran through that real quickly, but if you have
questions. . . Yes.
Vanderhoef: You talk about the funding that holds everything together. How much income do
you need for grant matching?
Purdy: The grants that....I can't give you a specific dollar amount.. .but for example, the
grants that we're applying for at the federal level, they're now requesting that a
lot of them that it's a half, one on one match. So, we have to match half of that.
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Vanderhoef: On the federal ones?
Purdy: Yes. It varies on the funding level.. . generally a quarter, to a third, to a half.
Vanderhoef: And of the twenty-eight funding sources that you're talking about, approximately,
how many of them require matching.
Purdy: Probably, a third of them right now.
Vanderhoef: And how many of them will roll over every year?
Purdy: Very few ofthem roll over. The Older Americans Act money are probably the
most that that the programs that we've had the longest, but the Area Agency on
Aging is having increased scrutiny.. .so, for example, for people who saw the
Cedar Rapids Gazette yesterday, in the Iowa Living section. .. they talked about
the nutrition program. The nutrition program has been fairly stable for quite a
few years. First the county had it and then we've had it for the past three
years.. .but.. .there is large international food-service companies that are interested
in that.. .so the Older Americans Act programs were the ones that we can pretty
much rely on every year.. ..but that's completely changed because the elderly
have become a marketplace.. .so there is increasing competition from everyone at
this time.
Vanderhoef: So, if you have twenty-eight this year, you're saying the possibility is that you
might only have twenty next year.
Purdy: Possibly.
Vanderhoef: Okay.
Purdy: Other questions?
Lehman: Other questions, comments?
Purdy: Thank you very much.
Lehman: Thank you very much.
Plannin!!: and Zonin!!:
Lehman: Planning and Zoning matters.
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Item 6(a). CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 2
ON AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM I-
I, GENERAL INDUSTRIAL, TO CC-2, COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL,
FOR 0.33 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT 611 HOLLYWOOD
BOULEVARD (REZ04-00022).
Franklin: Okay, we've got three items on the agenda. The first is to set a public hearing for
November 2 on an ordinance changing the zoning from I-I to CC-2. That's not
that one. This is for a small piece of property down off of Hollywood Boulevard.
It used to be the Krunchy Dip.
Lehman: Oh yeah.
Franklin: Okay.
O'Donnell: Krunchy Dip, eh?
Lehman: Yeah.
Item 6(b). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF GENERAL
QUARTERS, lOW A CITY, IOWA (SUB04-00012).
Franklin: Item B is a resolution approving the final plat of general quarters. This is a
subdivision off of Sycamore Street, south of Stanwyck Drive....a twenty-nine lot,
single-family subdivision. Recommendation for approval from both the
commission and the staff.
Elliott: Karin, the entrance to that... the only entrance and exit until Sycamore is done will
be through Gable, is that right?
Franklin: That's correct.
Elliott: Which, I don't know how many are familiar with that.. .that's not so much a street
as the one-half of kind of a self-contained oval...
Franklin: It is built to city standards as a city local street, but for the time being, all of these
- the twenty-nine lots will go off of that street.
Elliott: Do we have any idea of the time-frame on Sycamore?
Franklin: We will be discussing that with your capital improvements discussion, the capital
improvements plan that you'll be looking at with the budget in January. We have
been discussing it at a staff level as to getting in to the funded years, but then it
will be up to the Council to make a decision as to exactly where you want that to
fall.
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Vanderhoef: Okay, the out lot.. .
Franklin: Over to the, by the Sycamore greenway, over here?
Vanderhoef: Uh, huh.. . and then go straight South down on that. Is that the other half of that
circle when then the next group comes in...is that where the dedication will be
also?
Franklin: This will be street that comes down here is my recollection. Dnun...I don't
remember, Dee. Are you referring to something that says there is another out lot?
Vanderhoef: No, it just refers to the fact that this is only part of the dedication for the total.
Franklin: Oh yes, yes, yes. As we go on with the subdivision, there will need to be further
dedication of open space to meet the neighborhood open space requirements. I
don't recall exactly there that is down here and it may change as we proceed with
this. We've got the preliminary approved for this northerly.. .oops, sorry.. .the
preliminary approved... this is a final plat and just for these twenty-nine lots and
as we proceed, we'll get the rest of the neighborhood open space.
Vanderhoef: What direction is the greenway taking from that area?
Franklin: The greenway is over here.. . and it runs north/south. And through this auditors
parcel that you see here.. .there's a trail through there as well as part of the
Sycamore Greenway is in there.. . and then it comes round.. . sorry, I can't control
this mouse real well.. . comes around and then goes south.
Vanderhoef: Thank you.
Item 6(c). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY AND
FINAL PLAT OF MYRTLE RIDGE, lOW A CITY, IOWA (SUB04-00029).
Franklin: Sure. Item C is on a resolution approving the preliminary final plat of Myrtle
Ridge, which is a small subdivision off of Myrtle and Olive Street. This is a
property that, for some time, has been one piece. Lot one, two, and three are on
one single piece of property, they're now being subdivided to make three lots.
There is an existing house, which will be retained, and then there is sufficient
square footage to have a duplex on lot two and on lot three. Weare restricting
access to Olive Street. That is, that access will not be permitted off of Myrtle,
because this is right at the top of the hill on Myrtle. There will be a shared drive
between lot two and three that will serve the development of these two properties.
We'll also have some.. . shoot.. . have some consolidation of the parking for all of
these uses. Somewhere.. . there it is...in this area. Okay? Again, that is
recommendation for approval. I've got the next item. The Near Southside.
Lehman: Yes, move right along.
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Franklin: So, I'll just stay right here?
Lehman: Yes.
Item 9. APPROVING THE FIRST AMENDED NEAR SOUTHS IDE RESIDENTIAL
URBAN REVITALIZATION PLAN.
Franklin: Dee suggested last time, I think it was very appropriate to have a little refresher
on what the Near Southside Redevelopment Plan is, because I don't think
that. . .nope, none of you were on the council at that time.
O'Donnell: Not even Ernie?
Franklin: Not even Ernie. (Laughter) '92 you were not.
Lehman: '92 I was not.
Franklin: The plan was adopted in 1992 and the Near Southside is south of Burlington
Street and West of Gilbert Street, over to the river and then south to the railroad
tracks. The whole idea there was that we were looking at an area, at that time,
where the downtown could expand. The downtown is confined on the north by
the University, on the West by the river, and then on the South was about the only
place that it could go without it encroaching into residential neighborhoods. So,
at that point then the council put together a plan for redevelopment of this area
and it was a deliberate decision at that point not to do an urban renewal type of
project, as had been done for the downtown years ago, but to come up with a land
use plan, try to build in some incentives for the redevelopment of the area and
also put in some regulatory measures that would enable it to develop in the way
that the council wished and see how things went. The goal, as I said, was to
expand the downtown, but also to create a high-density residential neighborhood
in this area, that would support the downtown. So, there were two parts of this.
One was to have more opportunities for commercial development being south of
Burlington, between Court and Burlington, and then also to have more residential
uses in there. A high-density residential use south of Court Street to have a
population that was going to support the downtown. We put together, anticipated
redevelopment sites and all ofthe shaded areas are areas that were, well, if it's not
a vacated street then it's an anticipated redevelopment site. This is in your
booklet and you can probably see it a little bit better in there. A number of these
developments have occurred. Block 102 is obviously under construction now in
terms of the parking facility, the multi-modal parking facility with the Court
Street Transportation Center. We expect that to be a catalyst to redevelopment of
these western half of that block. Development is taking place on what used to be
coastal mart and it's now a mixed-use development. The Firestone store is still
there. It is anticipated that that will redevelop at some point in time, but again,
this is as the private market dictates. Town Center was built on these two pieces
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on Linn Street and then across the street was Grandview Terrace, the Lepic-
Kroeger project. On Gilbert Street, there is anticipation that this properties will
redevelop at some point and my understanding is that they have changed hands
recently, which may be the first step towards that redevelopment occurring. As
we move farther down, getting into the Prentiss Street area... there have been
properties that have been accumulated there in one ownership...a development
plan approved... that development has not gone forward to date, but we expect
that to happen. Kevin Kidwell has built a couple of apartment buildings. One on
Linn Street and then one up on Harrison, at the top of the hill in these areas right
here.. .so that has occurred. So, a number of things have happened in this area,
but there is still some pieces to fill in and part of that is the residential
development here. The item that is before you on the council agenda tomorrow
night, for action, is to extend the time period on the urban revitalization plan
which would allow for tax exemption for projects in this area, in which there is a
component for low to moderate income housing. In the Near Southside Plan, on
pages 29 and 30, there were a number of goals that were set out, that were an
action, and most of those things have been addressed, if you look at that in terms
of the regulatory reforms, establishing CB-5 Zone, we addressed the parking
through the parking impact fee district, we have done some zoning changes,
which enable very high-density development to take place, with some bonus
provisions. One thing that has not happened is the provision of units for low to
moderate income housing. The tool has been there but it has not been used.. . and
it may not be used.. .but the idea is, is that we have the tool in place in case
someone does want to use it. Again, it's a different kind of approach from urban
renewal in that certain incentives are put in place, whether people chose to act on
them or not, is a private market decision. So, I guess I will take questions. That's
kind of a quick summary of where we are.
Elliott: Karin, I got a question.. .or really a clarification and an observation. Under
Residential Urban Revitalization plan objectives page 2...it says 'encourage the
provision of housing for low and moderate income.' Low and moderate income,
are we talking about like Section 8 and assisted resident housing?
Franklin: Not necessarily. Low-income housing is defined by HUD as housing for people
that are at less than 80% of median income. Section 8 is usually we're looking at
people in the 30% to maybe 50% median income range. So, low income by
definition is maybe not what you would think of as low income colloquially. It
could be Section 8 -
Elliott: How much does it take to change any of this? In other words, I'm thinking of the
scattered site task force that is working now. . . which might run up against this?
Franklin: You could repeal it. There's two things you can do.. .One is you not vote to
extend the date on this, because this extends it to 2014 as an incentive, so if you
were to decide that no you did not want to provide an incentive for low to
moderate income housing in this area, you can just vote no on that extension. Or
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you can choose to vote in favor and put the extension in place, and then once you
get the report from the scattered site group, and decide what you're going to do in
that respect, you can repeal anything.
Elliott: The council would have the authority then...
Franklin: Yes.
Bailey: Bob, could I ask you.. .I'm not following your thinking on the scattered site and
why it's necessary at this...
Elliott: I'm just wondering, when it says low and moderate income household, whether or
not that was meant to or intended to foster more Section 8 housing, or housing
that would be appropriate for rental assistance and this would be in Southeast
Iowa City and that is exactly what the scattered site committee -
Franklin: No, this is just south of downtown.
Bailey: No, this is just like five blocks away.
Elliott: This is south.
Bailey: This is just south of Burlington. . .
Lehman: This is right around the courthouse.
Elliott: Uh-huh.
Lehman: Well, that's certainly not southeast Iowa City.
Elliott: It's south. Anything south-
Vanderhoef: It's south to the railroad tracks.
Elliott: Anyway, we'll deal with that.
Bailey: Well, that's why I wasn't following your thinking. So you're grouping this as
south.. .
Elliott: Yes. Don't be alone. Many people find it difficult to follow my thinking. The
observation is, uh, on page 4, applicability ofthe plan. Under land uses, first
sentence, it says 'also includes property assessed as commercial property, but
only if the commercially property consists of three or more separate living
quarters used for residential purposes.' I just wish we wouldn't get so specific
on.. .isn't there just some way we can just indicate a preference for this type of
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activity, as opposed to saying it must have three or two.. .we just have gone
through something along, what is it Gilbert, where we had to amend a plan -
Franklin: What this does, this plan is much more specific than your comprehensive plan, in
that what it is doing it's saying 'what properties are eligible for a tax exemption.'
Elliott: So it needs to be specific by nature.
Franklin: Yes, yes it does.
Elliott: Okay.
Franklin: Now, the specificity can be changed, I mean the number of units, or.. .who you're
targeting, but you do need to be specific as to who you are targeting, so we can
tell when a project comes in, whether it's eligible or not.
Elliott: Okay.
Champion: The other thing about that particular area is it doesn't seem to me it would be a
place for low-income people with families would live. They're not near a
school. . .
Franklin: Don't forget that 50% of the people are on housing lists are elderly or are people
with disabilities. So it doesn't necessarily mean people with families.
Champion: No, I know, but when we were talking about the scattered site housing, that really
is an issue for schools.
Franklin: Yeah. Anything else?
Vanderhoef: Are you going to talk about the second half? I sort of broke it up with the...
Franklin: Are you on the urban revitalization plan or the Near Southside Plan?
Vanderhoef: The Southside Neighborhood Redevelopment.
Franklin: I wasn't going to go into a lot of detail into that. Whatch 'ya got?
Vanderhoef: Well, we're reauthorizing that also, aren't we?
Franklin: No, that's just.. .the Near Southside Redevelopment Plan is the general land-use
plan and policy document from which comes the justification for the tool of the
Urban Revitalization Plan allowing tax exemptions for housing. So, the Near
Southside Redevelopment Plan is not under consideration now. It's just whether
you want to extend the life of this one tool.
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Vanderhoef: Okay, I do have some questions about updating that and also updating the
properties that have changed in the Revitalization Plan, so that it gives a clearer
picture of where we are at the time of reauthorization. Is that going to happen?
Franklin: If you want it to. That means a rewrite of the Near Southside Redevelopment
Plan. Which, I mean we can dO...it means that we will have a time-period then
when this tools expires, until you readopt the plan, reconsider the plan. You
know, if that's what a majority of council would like to do.. .it's been twelve
years since we did the plan...! mean, one of the other options is that you could
extend this tool, give us the assignment to reevaluate the Near Southside
Redevelopment Plan, update it, and then you can at that point, reevaluate whether
you want to have that tool or not. That's another option.
Vanderhoef: Is it possible to put an addendum on to the Revitalization Plan that would show
updated maps and just a one-page listing of the properties that have been
redeveloped and where we are at this stage of the game?
Franklin: Sure, but not before tomorrow night. (Laughter)
Vanderhoef: Well, I understand that. That part was real confusing, and I was going through it
thinking... well, I know that this one has redeveloped but this one hasn't, and
when I got all through, I finally decided that no, we haven't used the plan for
incentives up to this point because I couldn't think of anything that we had -
Franklin: There isn't anyone who has used the low to moderate housing tax incentives.
Vanderhoef: Well, you said it for me and confirmed what I finally figured out, but it took me a
long time.. .so anyone that would be looking at the plan.. .it's like, where are we
with this?
Champion: A simple tool, Dee, that might help us all, would be to take that map and color in
the areas that have redeveloped with one color, and the areas that have shifted
ownership, like the University has now purchased more of that property...
Franklin: Uh-hmm.
Vanderhoef: And the things, the public property...
Champion: Yeah, public property. . . it could be something that simple.
Bailey: Yes, I think that would be helpful.
Franklin: I think I know where you're going. The Urban Revitalization Plan is this map
that outlines where the resident - where the area is that the residential tax
incentive would hold.. .it's that dark outlined area. The Near Southside
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Redevelopment map is a larger area, which includes commercial, as well
residential. This is the one that is outdated.
Vanderhoef: There's a bunch of stuff outdated there.
Franklin: Yeah, I know.
Lehman: What Connie is suggesting would probably bring the map up to date.
Franklin: As an addendum to the revitalization plan?
Champion: And it wouldn't take that much staff time to do that.
Franklin: No it wouldn't.
Lehman: With development you're kind oflike trying to find a parking place. If there is
someone in the spot, you know it's taken. So you look at the map.. . and see this is
a great spot -it's already happened there, so I mean, I don't see it being a real
issue. Other than it would be helpful for Council, to see which ofthese have
developed or changed ownership, and that would literally bring it up to date.
Bailey: Do we have a sense as to why this tool hasn't been used in twelve years?
Franklin: Uhhmmm....
Bailey: And if we reauthorize.. .do we anticipate that that's the way it will continue to be?
Franklin: Not to get into too huge of a discussion, but in terms of the sort of housing that
Bob was talking about, there's just a few people who do that in town.. . and
otherwise the market is so hot for residential development for other income
groups, that they're really, the tax incentive isn't sufficient to convince somebody
that they should have other than the student market in this location. And that may
be a reality we just need to accept.
Bailey: Do we anticipate that that will change?
Franklin: No.
Lehman: Land cost is way too much.
Franklin: Land cost is too high, there's other alternatives.
Bailey: Give it another try for ten years?
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Franklin: Whatever. It's up to you whether you want to do it or not. It was there as an
original goal in the plan, and maybe that's something that you want to reconsider.
I think the whole idea was to enable that to happen, if someone wanted to do it.
Lehman: It doesn't hurt anything to leave it in it.
Franklin: No it does not.
Elliott: My question was just that. Is there a downside?
Franklin: I don't think that there is.
Elliott: I haven't been here long enough but it doesn't appear that there is.
Bailey: It doesn't prevent any other kind of development, does it?
Franklin: No, not at all.
Bailey: It doesn't block anything.. .so the market can do whatever it will do.. .but there
are.. .
Franklin: Yes. It just depends on how strongly you feel about it. . . but this tool won't do it.
Wilburn: It's okay to have a crescent wrench in your toolbox, you just may not use it.
Elliott: What a guy.
Franklin: Exactly.
Bailey: Thank you for clarifying that Ross, very good. (Laughter)
Elliott: How do you spell crescent?
Lehman: Maybe we should do adjustable end wrench. (Laughter)
Elliott: Thank you, Karin.
Item 4(e)(I). CONSENT CALENDAR- SWEET BRIAR AVENUE, RADCLIFFE
A VENUE AND STANFORD AVENUE.
Lehman: Yes, thank you. Okay, the next item is the Sweet Briar, Radcliffe, Stanford
Avenue. We, at the last council meeting, we removed that from the consent
calendar and we have a memo in here from Jeff Davidson, the info packet, we
have a resident who had requested that, not that parking be prohibited, but to
change the side ofthe street where it was prohibited. Now, the memo we got
from you, Jeff, indicated that when you informed the folks apparently the folks
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that you informed expressed their approval. Ifwe choose to change the side of
the street, we probably should send letters out to the same letters who approved -
who were in favor of the first proposal- which was on the other side of the street.
Davidson: One point of clarification for council, I think this is good because you see these all
the time on the agenda. And how we handle these matters, these issues are almost
entirely brought to us by people in the neighborhood. Once in a while the fire
department or the streets department, if they have a particular problem, they'll
bring it to our attention, but typically it's from within the neighborhood, someone
feels there is a traffic safety issue, we then do an investigation. If we determine
that there is a traffic safety issue, there is no neighborhood survey. We don't
make that a popularity contest because we feel the over-riding concern is the
public safety and we bring that directly to you for consideration, but we do as a
courtesy to the neighborhood, because it is going to ultimately effect the people
who live in the neighborhood, we send a letter saying that council will be
considering this. That's what we did on this particular one. To take it a step
further, if we determine that there's not really a public safety issue, and iffact in
this neighborhood we've investigated some streets and determined, based on the
same type of study, that there was not a particular issue, we may in that case offer
the neighborhood the option of, you know, if a group of you want to get together
and lobby the rest of the neighborhood to change the parking (laughter) then we
occasionally do that, and that's the survey's that you then see. But in this
particular one we just brought it directly to you and notified the neighborhood.
Based on that letter that we sent out to everybody who lives on these streets,
indicating what the council was going to be considering, we didn't ask for
comments, but unsolicited, we received eight, I think some of these were emails
and some of them were calls, expressing approval of the proposed action. I want
to be clear. We did not say anything about 'do you like it on the north side' or 'do
you like it on the south side' - we just told them what was proposed and we
received eight comments indicating approval. Just to continue quickly, in this
particular instance, we appreciate the fact that when we bring something to you
and we feel there is a real traffic safety concern one way or another, that you take
that into consideration. In this particular instance, whether or not the parking's
removed from the north side or the south side, doesn't really matter to us. We've
explained to you why we selected the side ofthe street that we did, shown you the
evidence that we have...if you feel that the evidence from the individual on Sweet
Briar Avenue, who expressed a different preference, is more compelling, that's
fine.
Vanderhoef: I wonder if we'd get a different batch of phone calls about that they thought it was
a good idea if we'd heard one negative and seven positives that they were also
stamping approval for that side ofthe street.
Davidson: On-street parking does tend to be a very touchy issue within neighborhoods.
Elliott: No kidding. (Laughter)
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Lehman: Is this on the agenda for tomorrow night?
Davidson: Yes.
Vanderhoef: I would choose to just -
Davidson: It's on your consent calendar.
Lehman: Okay.
Vanderhoef: I don't see a compelling reason.
Elliott: Jeff, twelve driveways on either side of the street.. .my only concern was the
process. I think that when we do something like this, it would be always good to
provide them a reasonable amount of time, as opposed to getting a letter on Friday
and taking care of it.
Davidson: The only reason we do that, Bob, is that if we send a letter out early, you start
getting calls before you know what the item is. We specifically waited until you
had your council packet so that when somebody called, you'd be able to see what
the item was.
Elliott: I guess I would just always like to have people have the opportunity to have their
say.
Champion: They always have the option.
Vanderhoef: They do.
Elliott: Yeah, but we were ready to approve this.
Bailey: But your diligence prevented that, Bob.
Elliott: Oh boy. (Laughter). You see what I have to put up with.
Davidson: I guess, maybe, if council can clarify.. .past city councils have not wanted the
public notified ofthings before you are, because of the very issue I raised. Is that
still your feeling or would you rather have us send the letter out a week ahead?
Elliott: We need to talk about that some time.
Lehman: Well, no, but I think your point is well taken. We really do not need phone calls
asking us about something about which we know nothing. We get enough of that
anyway.
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Bailey: We get plenty of that.
Lehman: But no, I don't think that that's the case. Now, ifthat is the case that, if council
agrees with Bob that they should have more notice, then perhaps you notify us
and them and we have the action taken two weeks later, when council knows
about and the neighbors all know about it.
Davidson: You can always...if questions are raised.. . you can always defer it, just like you
did this item.
Lehman: But I do think we have to know before the neighbors know.
Davidson: Any other questions before your consideration tomorrow night?
O'Donnell: No.
Davidson: Okay. I've been here a long time, over twenty years, you have as well. Do you
remember another when city council was all dressed in the same color?
(Laughter) They're all wearing blue.
Vanderhoef: I called and organized it. (Laughter)
Lehman: Accidents happen.
Elliott: Thanks, Jeff.
Vanderhoef: Jeff, before you leave, some place on council time, I'd like to just. . .
Lehman: Before we do that. . .
Davidson: Do you want me to hang around for council time to discuss that?
Vanderhoef: I don't think we can. Probably not.
Lehman: No, but it will come to us anyway. We're going to get it.
Davidson: Whatever you want to set up with that, just let me know.
Council Appointments
Lehman: We do not have any applications for appointments.
Karr: Mr. Mayor, you have the deer management, just to confirm, is all.
Lehman: Oh, confirming, all right.
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Karr: It's on your agenda for tomorrow night for deer management.
Lehman: Wait a minute...
Karr: It's on your agenda as item 14, 13...
Lehman: 14. That's fine.
Karr: 14 A.
Lehman: Got it.
ALCOHOL ISSUES
Lehman: Okay, alcohol issues. The bar owners had requested fifteen minutes on the
agenda to present their plan. So, who will be speaking for... .Leah, the stage is
yours.
Cohen: I don't know if I really want this stage right now. (Laughter) Thank you,
Council, for giving us the time to present this to you tonight. Basically, we had
sent you an outline of the board that we've been working on putting together.
We've had lots of interest in it from the community. Literally, hundreds of people
that we've all talked to in regards to this issue. We had an initial meeting of bar
owners down town that we notified and we had about forty show up, which we
thought was tremendous support. What we've done, just to let you know where
we are at with this, at this point and time, we have put together most of the board.
It's going on. Our first meeting is scheduled - our official meeting is scheduled
for November 3rd. A few of us have been working on other issues prior to that
and - I don't know if you want a sheet kind of telling you who is on it, just to
kind of show you a little bit of the diversification. Many have asked me, 'why did
this not work last year'. I really think there are a lot of reasons that this didn't
work last year. One, we didn't come together as a cohesive group - there's no
question about that. I think a couple ofthings worked and many didn't. I think
the difference in this group is that we are really consolidated together. It's a good
diverse group. Weare really working towards, as we've explained in our mission
statement, to combat excessive and underage drinking, as well as bring forth a
positive image of our community. We feel that suffered considerably and all of
us agree that it's much more positive than is put out there some times. So, we're
hoping to try and change that image a little bit. Myself, who owns Bo James,
which is a twenty-one bar, is on it, Brian Flynn, who is the owner of Joe's Place,
which is a twenty-one bar, Jason Shore, who is the Vice-President of the VI
Student Body, Marc Moen, who's a property owner and real estate developer, Jim
Bell, owner of the Deadwood, which is a twenty-one bar, Chuck Goldberg,
Sheraton Hotel, he's the general manager - so in his duties he obviously oversees
the bar area of that and we thought that would be a totally different perspective
for us also. Mike Porter, who has One-Eyed Jakes and The Summit, which are
both under-twenty one bars - we need that also. We need a little bit ofthe mix of
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everyone so we can all look at this clearly. Rafe Mateer, who is the general
manager of The Third Base, which was formally the Field House. Wade Shriver,
with Libery Bank - we will have a chamber member, it's just a matter of which
one of the gals is going to be on it. It will be a female. And Public Health,
there's a good possibility that we'll get someone from Public Health to be on the
board also. So, part of what we have looked at with this is that Champaign,
Illinois has a very strong alcohol advisory board - liquor advisory board - that
was started, and the City in turn has taken it over - and they have just done
tremendous things with that board. They're looking at lots of changes as they go
from year to year and what goes on with it. What we're hoping to do is, initially
by January I, we're setting out for the first couple of months that we are actually
meeting as a board and working, that we will be able to put together advertising
guidelines for the bars, very specific. We can not price fix on what people do, but
we are hoping that we can make a considerable difference. The under-twenty-one
bars putting, you know the nineteen to socialize, twenty-one to drink, the eighteen
bars not advertising eighteen with their alcohol ads.. .lots of different things that
we have come up with hoping to take down some of those great signs that
everyone loves in those windows around town. Weare also putting together a
monitor program for the bars. That would include, basically the bar would
employ the person and we would have very specific duties that they - we hope
they would follow the guidelines for the monitors - so that, in turn, we're hoping
to reduce a lot of the problems that can happen internally. It may be the owner
themselves, it may be someone else that they designate, but on the busy nights,
particularly the busy nights, we will suggest that they have one person on duty for
that particular purpose. We have already had someone offer to buy t-shirts for all
the bars that would have something to that effect on it, so we are hoping we can
follow through with that. In turn with that, we are hoping to do a pledges - to get
pledges from most of the bars ~ in particular the ones that we are concerned about
are obviously the twenty-one bars ~ so we're hoping to get a good group together
with the pledges that they will follow to the best of their ability guidelines that we
put together. So those are our initial - what we are going to get done immediately
and what we are working on right now. We are working on different educational
aspects. We feel that that's certainly is part of what's going to go on here.
Training of servers and what's going on with that. I know that Champaign right
now, is looking into certifying all oftheir servers in their community, and it is
something that we are looking into very heavily also. Weare very much
supporting the police compliance checks, the bar checks, and those sorts of things.
There is always a concern, I know with them, in regards to staffing and what goes
on downtown and what can be handled. We deal with it these football weekends.
Believe me, it's not a fun business to be in sometimes on the football weekends. I
think that we all try to do the best that we can but sometimes that's not always
good enough. Many people have also asked me, in particular, you went twenty-
one, why did you go twenty-one, and why on earth would you want to support
staying nineteen and working with this board as heavily as we intend to work with
it. One of the reasons I went twenty-one was because of all the problems that I
dealt with it, and I'm just getting too old to deal with all that stuff any more. But
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I do feel, at this point in time, that the group we have put together does feel that
our community is better right now with the nineteen as it is. I think because of
that, we all are really working together and hoping that the council will consider
keeping the nineteen ordinance for another year. Weare proposing that we come
to the council May 151 of next year, which is about six months, and really go
through with you, what we have done. Hopefully we will have come up with
ways that we can monitor how we can see that it has had effects - not just by the
statistics with the PAULA's but in other ways. But.. .in.. .we could be a little
further, but we are kind of holding back some of it because we want the whole
board to be together for decisions that are made on it. We are hoping again in
May, that we can come to you the 151 of May, show you what we have done, see if
council is happy with it. There's a lot of good people putting their names out with
this and we don't intend to waste our time. It is not something that I want to do or
anyone else. Ifwe don't see that we are having good response or that we are
having cooperation, we're going to be ones coming to you and telling you that
also.
Champion: Have you discussed at all...! know you can't price control.. .but did you discuss at
all some of those specials that I think are just irresponsible, like quarter beers and
3-cent drinks. Has your group discussed that at all?
Cohen: We've discussed that quite a bit. We can't tell them pricing. What we have said,
and what we are saying in this, and we have put together lots of disclaimer stuff
and I didn't bore you guys with giving that to you. Basically what we are going
to do is, if we see problems with a particular bar, that we feel is really promoting
excessive or underage drinking, we'll talk to them. We've had a couple
discussions already after last weekend. So, we'll talk to people about it. Ifwe
don't get very much cooperation, we'll send them a letter privately and allow
them to come further on that. If they don't, we'll send a letter of concern, which
would be basically a citizen complaint to the city council, as well as to the chief
of police, expressing our concern that this particular bar is running this special
that we feel is promoting excessive drinking, or whatever it may be. We are
hoping, that by doing that, that in turn the police will have their staffing that can
help us in order to correct that. It's kind of a...I don't know that it's a public
shaming sort of thing, but it's hopefully something that people will really take
seriously and take a look at. And yes, we have talked to several people about it.
There's a couple that have not participated in anything that we've repeatedly
asked, and we are hoping what we're going to do the first month is we're going to
get our guidelines to all the bars, along with a letter telling them what we're
doing, what we're working on, inviting them to any meetings, that sort of thing.
Along with, we're hoping we can have the city send them a copy, again a copy of
the ordinances, the city ordinances that we expect followed, and have the state
send a copy of the state laws. We're hoping, with that, that we'll get pretty much
everybody on board so they really understand what's going on with it. We can't
be perfect, we know.
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Lehman: I know that, but these folks already know the state laws, they already know the
city ordinances, and they're not breaking the state laws and city ordinances, and
the issues that we have are not because they are breaking city laws or city
ordinances and state laws. They all know those.
Cohen: Well, we don't necessarily agree with that statement. But we feel there are
probably some laws that are being broken that do contribute to some of the issues
that are going on.
Elliott: I think that's our concern. There are laws that are being broken. Serving alcohol
to people under twenty-one.
Lehman: I think the bars are very careful not to serve alcohol to kids under twenty one.
Cohen: I think they are doing a very good job, but we just had compliance checks that
went very well, and it's just that.. . and I have pointed out to the police department,
that it is.. .that's a big part of how we keep our staffs in line...is doing those sorts
of things. It's pretty hard to be responsible for all those people some times. If
they're kept on their toes, it tends to help a little bit.
Champion: Well, I know that there are people out there, and I've met with several the last
couple of weeks - especially the Stepping Up - feels that the availability of
alcohol contributes to binge drinking.. . and I'm sure that's true.. .but I don't think
that the alcohol is just available in our downtown. We have readily accessible
alcohol almost everywhere in town. I'm actually very impressed with this
committee and I feel strongly that they should be given a chance and see what
they can do. I'm concerned about safety, as I've talked to some ofthe students,
about what goes on at home parties, and the fact that we're so blessed with a town
and the University so intermingled, which is not common in college towns, this is
not Ames, Iowa. .. we don't have a campus town. Weare all integrated. I think
that unsupervised drinking is also not healthy. I also think that we have
unsupervised drinking in the bars downtown, and I think that this group is trying
to address this. It's a very complex problem. I've given it a lot of thought. It
would be so easy to just say 'let's just go twenty one' - it would be the easiest
thing. If I say 'let's stay nineteen' - I'm going to have people who aren't going to
like me no matter what decision I make. (Laughter). Welcome to my real world.
My kids were the same way. I don't think last year was a lost cause. I think we
made a lot of bar owners aware that we mean business, there were bars that were
shut down for various reasons, some bars shut down permanently. I think it was
some small steps towards... that we're not going to tolerate this behavior any
more. So I feel that I want to give this group for many reasons. I think that part
of the social structure downtown is healthy, I don't think that it's all bad.. .that
everyone in the bar is drinking excessively. I think the music scene, the dancing,
the entertainment...is a very valuable thing, as long as it's not abused. So, I'm
hoping that this group will get their act together.. .not that.. . you know what I'm
saying. I'm going to support this group and hope that they come back with a
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pretty positive response. I think I'm personally going to go into those bars to see
if those monitors are there.. .because that is one of my major concerns that was
promised last year.. . and I didn't know if the bar owners promised it or the student
suggested it, I don't remember. I think that it's a major thing, and I think these
monitors, that should be their own job. They should not be bartending and should
not be checking ill's at the door. They should be monitoring what's going on
inside. I think they can do two things. I think they can help delete some of the
underage drinking. They can also maybe delete some of the drunkenness that I
don't think is observed. They need to be trained or education, I don't know you
do that. I think this is a positive thing that they've all gotten together except for
the few. I think we should give it a chance. Let's keep our entertainment center
open to nineteen-year-olds.
O'Donnell: I agree with Connie. I have never supported the twenty-one, simply because I
don't believe you can effectively regulate it. I believe you can move a problem to
a different jurisdiction, but I would rather work to try and resolve or alleviate a
problem, and I think we have a group here that's dedicated to doing that. So, I
agree with Connie. I'm willing to give them a chance.
Lehman: Are there any questions for Leah?
Wilburn: I have a couple of questions. Maybe you can help clarify something for me, Leah.
You prefaced your comments with a statement to the fact to 'what's the difference
between a year ago and now' in terms of the bar owners communicating or being
on board. As you know, I was part of a group that got together, that included a
few bar representatives, and your comment at the special council meeting we had,
you said that you were not informed or told about this group. I'm not looking
back a year - I'm looking as recent as this late summer. We were told by
representatives from the ABC that they had been in communication with you all,
including yourself. What you're talking about is some kind of peer supervision or
sanction or peer pressure, in which in some ways involves some communication.
So , maybe, can you first walk me through the discrepancy between what we were
told and what you stated at that last special meeting.
Cohen: I was around last year, when this issue was being talked about, so I know that a
committee was assigned or set up, I didn't really hear much about it. In turn, I did
hear of a couple of people that were on it. The only communication that I
received, throughout the entire year, was a.. .at the end of. ..towards the end
here.. .where were all asked to fill out a survey in regards to what had gone on or
what had changed throughout the year. That was the only communication
throughout the entire time. I think one of the problems that happened with it was
the particular bar owner that was kind of put in charge of cornmunicating with us
was looking at selling his establishments and I think just became uninvolved
because of that. I can honestly tell you I never once talked with anyone about any
recommendations on that committee. I did see where a couple advertising things
had changed with a few of the big bars in the paper and did kind of ask about that
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towards the end, I would say.. .but I never heard a thing otherwise about what was
going on in regards to this committee.
Wilburn: Okay, I appreciate that.
Cohen: I think the difference is...! think there's differences in people and what we put
this group together. We are really a group that are put together to try and solve
some ofthese problems and to put out positive information to the community. I
think that we are all working together for that good. I don't easily come out on
the front line on some of this stuff and I know a lot of other people that are on this
board do not either. But, we've all said that if we do not see it working.. .you
know, I'm not out there to hang a flag for people that are causing all sorts of
problems in town...! think others will tell you that, too. So, I think that's
probably why I'm a pretty good communicator.
Wilburn: I appreciate that. I would, before the council makes a final decision about this,
that you consider there were... there was more than one bar owner on this group
and there was more than the one that Leah is talking about when she mentioned
communication.. . and again, this type of group is talking about peer sanctions and
communicating with others.. . and they're talking about communicating with the
council. The other part that I have question about involves that sanction. And
I.. ..looking at the folks on here.. . and knowing you...! know.. .know that you'll
put time and energy into it, but when there is someone who isn't going to be on
board or play ball.. . and whether it's next Mayor a year from now, we end up
with a recommendation from this group and there is a lot more liquor license
holders than this group.. .whatever your recommendation, ifit's differing from
that group.. .how will having this group.. . and us a year from now, having some
time of difference. What difference is that going to make, if you're making a
recommendation one way, there's a group ofliquor license holders and/or some
students on the opposite side of you.. .what's going to change in a year?
Cohen: As far as how those particular bars will be handled?
Wilburn: In terms of a decision for a council member or members who may be wanting to
give a group another chance.. .if we end up at this same spot.. .what should we be
looking for that would.. .not put us back here in the same spot one year from now.
Cohen: I would guess that this is going to be the last time that you listen to this. I don't
know. I think that hopefully we will be able to present to you, you know as we're
saying, the first part of May, about what's been going on and what's been done. I
don't think that we can solve the problem of underage and excessive drinking. I
think that when you have a community of this many students and this many bars
and the drinking that goes on. I don't think that we can solve that issue. I think
that we can help to reduce a lot of the problems and I think that we can start a
very good educational program with it. Now, we're hoping that within the six
months to years time that you will see the difference of what goes on. You
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certainly will hear about it, if we continue to have any particular problem or
whatever. You're going to be getting letters on it, as will the police department,
and we're hoping that we will have cooperation in that regards, because we feel
that that probably is how we will start to solve that problem a little bit more. We
need to have consistent policing along with it. I think it's all part of what
everyone has talked about.. . and I know that Stepping Up has put out, you know,
different things on how everyone can work together in different regards. Certainly
that is part of it, there's no question about it. We're hoping, with this board, that
we will have people, you know, who can come to us in regards to - I know
someone who had such a time over in JCPenney's spot - I would have been very
happy to give her some ideas and to go through things. We're hoping that we can
start looking at all of those issues and can start...I think it can become pretty big,
and I think you'll see that and will know the difference in six months or more of
what the other board did or didn't do. I don't know what the mission was of that
board, so it's hard for me to judge whether it was good or bad. Ijust know that
this is a group of people set for one mission.. . and that's what we intend to work
forward on.
Wilburn: Well, I thank you for your time and for coming down here tonight and presenting
this. I would just ask...! guess Dee has some questions.. .but I would ask the
council, again, as you're considering this, I would point out that...! would ask you
to really think about what it is that you think is going to be different, what you are
anticipating is going to help you make a decision six months to a year from now,
should you decide to not change the existing ordinance to twenty-one. . . you
know. . . what. . ..is it honestly something like this that is going to change your
mind, or not.. . and we can move on from the decision because.. .you know.. . Leah
and this group is talking about committed efforts and communication, which are
all good things, but we've had other groups that have been doing education and
intervention and treatment and prevention and are asking for a policy that's more
congruent with their efforts. So, I'll just point that out as a counterpoint, I guess.
Vanderhoef: Thanks, Ross. Leah, as I look at the mission statement, I'll read it because I think
it will make my point. 'The mission will be accomplished through a voluntary
advisory group that creates and oversees informal guidelines for business owners
and operators to help combat excessive and underage drinking, as well as through
the education and promotion of sensible community policies for businesses that
serve alcohol.' So, first off, your mission is a bar-owners advisory group. That's
your mission, is to work with bar owners. This is not a community-based kind of
group. So you are addressing education and policies specifically for business
owners and alcohol servers. So, with that in mind, and having in mind the charge,
I think a year ago, before we went nineteen. . . there are four seated councilors here
right now that at that time were all set to go twenty one. I think we made it very
painfully clear that we wanted one year to gather statistics and to try this, to give
an opportunity for bar owners, bar servers, for personal responsible to come
forward or the individuals. We now have that. The thing that changed my mind
at that time was the concern for safety of the, in particular, women. In the
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statistics we have, we are seeing less nuisance ordinances calls, we're seeing no
change in the domestic violence kinds of activities related to these nuisance calls,
we have stories told about 'well this person or that person' and that to me is a
personal responsibility that if someone is responsible enough to drink... that
they're certainly responsible enough to decide when they've had enough to drink
and when they should or shouldn't be at a house party.. .or whether they feel safer
in a different establishment. So, I think your mission for bar owners is on track.
So, my question to you is, why would this not be equally important if we went
twenty-one and what would happen to this group if council chose to go twenty-
one?
Cohen: I don't know that I can speak for everyone in the group, if council goes twenty-
one. My guess would be that part of the mission would change somewhat. I think
we would have an extremely difficult time in getting compliance with anything if
you went twenty-one because we would see penny-everything out there. What
would they have to lose? I think that if we went twenty-one, that we'd
probably.. ..part of the reason that we're hoping for compliance is with that kind
of out there... that we could go twenty-one. So, ifthe twenty-one is the law, I
don't think that we're going to have much compliance anywhere. Everyone is
going to be fighting for a dollar.
Vanderhoef: The law right now is twenty-one, anyway.
Cohen: But remember the cover charges.. .whether you serve a drink or not.. . remember
that the cover charge is an issue here.. . and we've kind of talked that a little bit in
detail. You know, you don't pay you DRAM Shop insurance based on a coverage
charge. You pay based on alcohol sales, and those sorts of things that we can
really work on at a different level with it. I think that I do not believe that the
statistics on house-parties or that sort of thing, are accurate at all. I don't think
that tickets are being issued. I know a lot of people don't call it because it seems
like it's always at the time that officers are very busy. They don't have a lot of
officers down there at night some times when it's.. .the bars are empty-
Vanderhoef: But the calls are counted.
Cohen: I know that the calls are counted, but I know a lot of calls are not called in
because they know that they know it's going to be a very long time.. . and usually
those house parties are a couple-hour thing. I've talked to many people that have
told me that in neighborhoods. I also know that we have a big increase, just the
last six months or so, on date-rape drugs. You know, there's lots of things that
are going on out there, Dee. This is not what I dealt with or what you dealt with
when we were younger. I have two young kids, that are in the back of the room
here, that are in college and I probably, amongst everyone, can attest to, more
than anyone.. . and I will tell you as a parent, I absolutely do not support a twenty-
one ordinance. You can say what you want, but I know the reality. I see the
reality, I see what has happened to these kids at house parties, I see the drugs, I
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see the assaults, I see the unnecessary advances - it isn't a matter of whether
we're responsible or not responsible to walk out of that house. It doesn't have to
do with that. It's that these kids are facing a totally different program than we
faced years ago and I firmly believe that I would just as soon have any student at
this University at my bar than at a house party. And I think that probably any
student can tell you that. Pretty much almost any student.. . and we need to listen
to what these kids are telling us. Now, I'm not saying every bar is safe, but I
think going twenty-one is.. .could be very disastrous here.. . and I'm thinking of
these students when I say that, too.
Vanderhoef: That's your opinion.
Cohen: That is my opinion.
Vanderhoef: I respect your opinion, and I don't mean to argue with you.. .but I feel that you
were involved, as much as anyone else was, a year ago and heard the same words
that we heard. ..the words that we said.. .we hear what we've got from our
staff. . . who is highly recommending it. . . we are hearing from the mental health
people.. .we are hearing from MECCA.. .we are hearing from Student
Health.. . and all of these places.. . and they are saying that the statistics show,
overwhelmingly, that the availability of alcohol is the biggest problem going for
underage drinking. As far as speaking for your group and the mission. . . the
mission is still supposedly to address over-consumption of alcohol and
consumption by underage. So, if we can take away one of the factors, the under-
age and the availability to them in the bars, I think we will be making a huge step
forward. Certainly, I am also looking and hope that council will look at it too, in
the keg-law and also for drink specials. It makes me really angry when I walk
down the street and I see a sign, written on a piece of paper, taped to the window
that says 'Happy Birthday, Twenty One Pitchers for Twenty One Dollars' and
that's on a bar or was last week, I haven't been down there this week. So, I will
definitely be looking at twenty-one because I do not trust what was said to me last
year. That they would get in order of their business and take care of this and work
on it.. . and there has been nothing. I think the report from Ross is absolutely out
there that they had the opportunities, the meetings were posted, it was open for
them to come.. . any of you could have come and you didn't.
Lehman: Are there any other questions for Leah?
Bailey: I have some. Go ahead.
Elliott: I don't have so much as a question, but I do appreciate your proposal, I liked your
proposal, the only disappointing thing I think is your response. I think your
group, and I don't really know, and I am going to probably be in favor of staying
at nineteen and over and I really don't know how the rest ofthe council is going
to vote. I would like to think that your group could be equally beneficial whether
or not we go twenty-one or stay at nineteen. I have often said that the problem
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cannot be solved by legislation. We need education, we don't need legislation as
much as education. The young people who are over-indulging could stop the
problem. The bar operators could do a great deal in addressing the problem, and
if you truly get together and if you do do peer pressure, for lack of a better term, I
think that this group that you have proposed to put together could work equally
effectively whether you're nineteen or twenty-one. I'm just hoping that if it does
go twenty-one, that you won't pick up your toys and go away because I think you
have a good plan in place, for starters, and I'd like to think that a year from now,
one of the things that might be talked about is how that plan could be expanded
and be additionally more effective. I do think that, other than students, nobody
knows as much about what goes on at the bars as the bar operators do. I know,
I've talked to them and they know what's going on here, what's going on there,
what's happening. So, I liked your proposal, I just hope you don't pick up your
toys and go away ifit goes twenty-one. But I appreciate what you're trying to do.
Cohen: We haven't really discussed that, so it's hard for me to say too much. Remember,
this is an outline. This is not.. .the whole board hasn't met yet.. . and this
might.. . they might X-out everything and totally change you know.. .some things
in here. The basics obviously will be the same, but forgive us ifisn't perfect for
where we're at right now. This is where we're starting.
Bailey: One of the things that I was going to say, Leah, is that one of the things that will
make a difference for me with this advisory board, and I am very supportive of it,
is, when you come May 1 S\ that it's not just the same-old... that there is a timeline
for some of these things that Champaign is doing, because I think that they are
addressing the issues in some innovative ways.. . and I think that we could some of
the similar approaches that they're using. Additionally, I like this group because
it's a trade group essentially. What do you have to lose? Well, economically
there are a lot of economic disincentives. For this not working.. . for this not
working at twenty-one. We have a cultural and entertainment district. It could be
even be better and more vital. You could not only be serving a portion of the
demographic here, but a broader portion.. . and with the Englert opening, I think
that this is a vital, active district that people feel comfortable coming downtown
and going out for the evening, no matter what their age. I think that it's in
everybody's best interest that this works and the excessive consumption of
alcohol and the excessive acting out as a result of the excessive consumption of
alcohol is just stopped in downtown because it's creating economic disincentive, I
think, for people.. .people aren't coming downtown as much as they probably
would. I mean, you've got a smaller group - but you could have a larger group if
this works. I'm looking forward to your report on May 1 sl and a timeline for
some of those innovative ideas on what we can do here.
Cohen: Okay, thank you.
O'Donnell: I do want to comment on this group. Approximately 40% of them are not bar
owners. You have a banker, a chamber member, there is an open seat available
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for Public Health, you have an operator of a hotel. . .it may be the same problem. I
believe this problem is better than last year. You have different people working
to try to eliminate the problem and I'm willing to give them a chance.
Lehman: Thank you, Leah.
Elliott: Ifwe're going to go much longer, can we have a break soon?
Lehman: Okay, we'll take a break...! think we'll have a little more discussion.. .so let's
take ten minutes.
Lehman: Alcohol Issues Discussion. Is there any other comments?
Champion: Be an optimist.
Elliott: I have just a comment. When they...! agree whole-heartedly when they say 'if
you limit availability, you'll eliminate some the problem', but I think what my
concern is how much, if you go twenty-one and over and it will reduce some of
the consumption, how much does it increase the infinitely-more dangerous
situations in private parties. That's my concern. I don't know ifI'm right.
Bailey: I don't know if this anecdotal, but Dee mentioned that parties aren't really... the
nuisance calls aren't up. . ..in our neighborhood on the north side, people have
become smart enough to have quieter parties.. .because all we care.. . all
neighbors really care about.. . calling about.. .especially when it two or three or
four in the morning is the noise. Most of us aren't wandering about looking for
reasons to call.. .so if we're awakened, we call. So most of those parties have
become parties, at least in neighborhoods, because you see the evidence the
following morning with the cups and the garbage.
Wilburn: Is that a form of more control? A more controlled environment?
O'Donnell: Didn't we have one report where there was a party in an apartment where they
had seventeen kegs of beer and they sold glasses or something?
Champion: They do that all the time.
O'Donnell: They do that all the time?
Bailey: Yes, but that's anecdotal.
O'Donnell: Hey, I'm old.
Wilburn: You know, Bob, you had expressed a concern or hope that if it went to twenty-
one that such a group could continue on.. . and I was trying to remember.. ..and I
checked with someone... there was a recollection that other communities that have
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such a group, Madison happens to be one, but there are other communities where
they have such a group and it is twenty-one, so it can coexist as long as there is a
diverse group, community investment, and involvement. Which, again, is
congruent with actions and activities of groups we have here existing herein Iowa
City and Johnson County, that are some school-based, some are non-profit based,
some are with the University. So.. .you know...it can happen.
Lehman: Well, let me just say. This is almost exactly where we found ourselves a year
ago. We were told by a group offolks what was going to happen in the next year
when we decided to go with nineteen instead of twenty-one. I think few, if any,
of the things that were told to expect actually happened. I absolutely respect the
amount of effort and work that this committee has put in putting this together. On
the other hand, I think this is absolutely an economic issue for those folks trying
to protect the income of an industry that is, indeed, very lucrative. It's an
important industry for these folks, and I don't fault them for that at all. We have
been told many, many times that there is nothing else for kids to do who are
twenty-one.. . and there is never going to be.. .because you can't compete with
bars with venues that do not serve alcohol. We've shown that time and time
again. This for me, is the only issue that I've seen since I've been on the council,
that every piece of empirical evidence, relative to alcohol consumption, shows
that communities that are twenty-one consume less alcohol, have fewer
problems...it is supported by our own police department, the county health
department, the school board, the College of Public Health, independent
statisticians all over this community, the University of Iowa.. . and I've never seen
something with so much evidence that we don't seem to look at. Obviously, if we
choose, and I think we have, to go with nineteen. . . until the first of May. . . I will
draft a letter to the committee, indicating that, if that's the wish ofthe council, and
indicate to them that we will request a report from them, in May, indicating how
the situation has changed and how there have been improvements, if that's your
pleasure.
Champion: Ijust want to something you said Ernie.. . and not that I'm going to argue with
what you said -
Lehman: You argue with me all the time. (Laughter)
Champion: No, I'm not going to. I do agree that it's an economic impact. There's no
question about it.. . and that's why I expect this group to be successful.
Lehman: They have been so far, haven't they?
Champion: It will impact them greatly.. .so I'm hoping that they will heed each other and
behave more appropriately. I think that it will be interesting to see if they can do
anything about drink specials, which to me is irresponsible bar ownership... to
give people a drink for a quarter. I don't think you can have a glass ofIowa City
water for a quarter.
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Lehman: Why has this tremendous concern surfaced in the last two-to-three weeks?
Champion: What concern?
Lehman: Concern about these issues? They've been here forever.
Champion: They've always been an issue.
Lehman: Why is it that we only get this now?
Champion: The threat is stronger and that's why. I know that I've been the swing vote on this
twice, but because I don't want to keep kids out of the bars ifI don't have to. I
think part of that entertainment scene is healthy. I don't think it's all bad. When
you look at the number of problems, and you took the percentage of kids who are
really having problems with bars, it's going to be pretty small for the number of
the kids that are in there. And, do you make laws just to cover a few people? I'm
not sure about that either.
Wilburn: You mentioned the data and evidence, empirical evidence.. . and people may
question the motivation behind some of the studies that came up through Stepping
Up or other institutions. You may question or say 'there is no one answer. . . we
can't stop this', but for whatever reason, there are other communities that are
twenty-one and Iowa City is at the extreme end of those.
Champion: They have riots too. (Laughter)
Wilburn: The effort to go twenty-one is being painting as being draconian, and it's being
painted that you can't stop anything, you're just going to displace a problem.. .but
if we can make it twenty-one and this helps us get to where some other
communities are at.. .which is lower than Iowa City.. .didn't we effect some
change?
Lehman: I think the other thing is that we have a number of groups within the community.
The health professionals and those groups that I mentioned, while working very,
very hard, try to control the effect of over-indulgence, and I think they're really
asking us to be partners and it bothers me that we are unable. Now, would you
like me to draft (tape ends) Okay, I'll draft a letter requesting from them some
sort of report to us in May.
O'Donnell: That's not how I understood, Ernie.
Lehman: That's the timeframe that Leah gave us tonight.
O'Donnell: But it was to present a plan, did I misunderstand that?
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Vanderhoef: Yes. I think what she said was to give us an update at where they are with the
things that she had outlined that they were going to do between now and then.
Bailey: Because they're starting in November, so they'll have -
Lehman: Seven months is pretty good length.
Elliott: My concern, Ernie, is I don't want to leave the alcohol issue here. I think there is
far more to talk about than whether we go to twenty-one and over. Possibly
zoning of bars, investigating in an ordinance limiting size, lobby the legislature -
one of the most important things we can do -lobby the legislature to enable cities
to charge meaningful penalties for infractions of this, whether it's the bars serving
minors or the minors getting drinks. Looking at ways to scan ID cards, graduated
price for.. .bartenders - just any number of things that need to be looked at. For
instance, I've talked a couple of times with Professor Harold Mulford who has
written expansively on the problems with over-indulgence in alcohol and I
haven't heard his name once. I haven't raised it before.. ..but he has written
extensively on things that can be done to address the problem of over-indulgence
and the problems resulting from it. Education is the number one thing we need to
do. I don't want to just drop - 'okay, we decide to stay at nineteen, let's go on to
the next order of business.' I think we need a session where we can talk about
what can the University, what can the City do, what can the community do.
O'Donnell: As difficult as it may seem, we have made progress. Because we made a decision
tonight, in one night, that took eight months last time... with substantial tweaking.
I'm very pleased with this. I'm not ready to concede that every young person that
goes into an establishment that sells alcohol at night, that goes into dance,
socialize, meet friends - is ready to break the law. I'm not ready to concede that.
It also seems a bit strange to me that you can get married, you can get divorced,
you can have kids, you can do all that - but you can't have a burger in an
establishment that serves alcohol after 1 0:00pm unless you're over nineteen. That
seems a bit ridiculous to me.
Lehman: Okay, folks.
Wilburn: Can those of you who support this group and letter indicate now to the Mayor
what's going to go in that letter in terms of expectations and what you want to see
in May? Otherwise...
Vanderhoef: A report is a report.
O'Donnell: How are we going to.. ..how are we going to determine that?
Lehman: That's what Ross is asking.. .what should be in the letter.
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Elliott: I don't anticipate any significant change by three, four months. We need to put a
whole lot of things together to make any significant impact on the problem that
we have.
O'Donnell: That's why I brought up, if we're going to look at this in May, I think that we will
be looking more at a plan of action.
Wilburn: I still think, if.. . fine.. . then.. ..that's what you'd like to see...a plan of action.
Again, I'll say, if you're supporting this group and this proposal, and you want to
hear something back from them, say it now. . . because the types of efforts that
you're talking about exist now.
Elliott: Yeah, but the type of thing that I just -
Wilburn: Communities, education, and those -
Bailey: I want to see something about training servers.
Wilburn: Not what you're talking about zoning and that type ofthing. That doesn't exist.
But the other types of things exist now.. ..so what, in response to this proposal, do
you want to see so that we -
Bailey: I want to see a timeline and training servers - because I think training servers is
going to make a huge difference, I want to see the tracking of monitors, and I'd
like this group to consider a plan getting the scanners that can scan false ID's. I
know that they are quite costly, but I would like to see a plan.
Lehman: The training is pretty much done now.
Champion: The training is happening but they have turnover.
Bailey: But there needs to be something.. ..there is a huge turnover.. . and I know that this
is restraint oftrade or something.. .but if you can go out and get ajob.. .if you can
serve and then go out and get ajob at another bar in town, it's no incentive to
follow the rules. There has to be an incentive to follow the rules because there are
young people working in these bars. . . they've got friends. . . we all remember what
it was like to be that age.. .you want somebody saying 'oh, you guys. ..I'll lose my
job and I won't be able to get another one if I serve you.' You want to give them
a reason, you want somebody... the bad guy back there supporting you making the
right choice. If there is something that can be done to structure something like
that in Iowa City/Coralville, that would be helpful.
Elliott: Server registration, perhaps?
Bailey: And I know that there are limitations about that, because of limiting people's
ability to get jobs, but, if there is a model for this - there are models for most of
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this out there. There is no point in reinventing the wheel and since there are
models, some of this stuff can be done in the time that is available before May.
Champion: But they are sincere about this document, this plan. I don't know how fast they
can implement it, but I think bar monitors should be decreasing the number of
public intoxication arrests that we have downtown, decreasing the number of
fights, decreasing the number altercations between drunk people in bars and sober
people. I think that's a definite goal that should come out ofthis.
Lehman: Measurement.
Champion: That is a measurement. That to me is what was missing this last year. They said
they were going to do monitors, and they didn't. I think monitors can playa very
important role. We have drunk people being served downtown and it might not
be the bartender serving it. It might be their friends. It could be anybody.
Bailey: A lot of people come downtown drunk. They're at the parties earlier, so they
come downtown drunk. So a little bit more of that kind of the enforcement about
not serving people who are already-
Vanderhoef: Not letting them in if they're already drunk.
Bailey: Right.
Champion: Those type of things they can look at. They know what goes on in their bars.
They probably don't want to admit it, but they know what's going on.
O'Donnell: And once again, that's the plan that this group, I assume, is going to come back to
us in May.
Bailey: Some of this can happen. Let's not give them a total bye here. Some of this can
happen between now and then.
Champion: It can.
Lehman: Seven months is time is time that they should.. .ifthere isn't any sort of change in
seven months, I would think we would be very disappointed.
Champion: I would be very disappointed.
Bailey: I know that we seem to have a gap in receiving statistics for bar checks, and I
would hope that those bar checks would continue during this time. Because we
didn't get information for a period of time in our packets.
Champion: I think the compliance checks were very helpful.
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Lehman: The bar owners, some of the bar owners, liked those.
Bailey: I think we need to make sure that those continue throughout this entire process.
Vanderhoef: Ifit happens, one of the things to put on their list is a promise not to make phone
calls to the next bar down the line ifthere was a compliance check in their
bar.. .don't make the phone calls down the line that they're out doing compliance
checks.
Lehman: (Laughing) How are you going to enforce that?
Vanderhoef: Well-
O'Donnell: Dee, you're going to have to.spend a lot of time downtown.
Vanderhoef: If the bar owners group is to be self-policing each other and peer pressure and so
forth.. .that's one of the ways that certainly would change the outlook on it.
Elliott: I would like to think that they would do what it takes to keep us off their backs.
Champion: Yes.
Bailey: A parenting technique.
Lehman: Alright, we'll get a letter off to them. Actually in the letter, I think I also will ask
what they expect will happen by then.. .so they can give us some idea what their
goals are for the May meeting and we can assess and they can evaluate their
progress towards those goals.
Elliott: One more word. I feel awfully good about this discussion. There were some
people who hold some very strong, very emotional thoughts on what's right and
what's wrong about this. We've discussed this, we've been respectful and I think
that it turns out again that we are just seven people trying to do the right thing.
Maybe we will, maybe won't - but we're trying. So I appreciate it.
Dilkes: Can I make one comment.. .just out of an abundance of caution here...! think we
need to make it very clear, that the City does not put their stamp of approval on
any of these documents, the way this board operates, the way they make their
disclaimers, the way that their confidentiality provisions read. I don't review it. I
think a lawyer looking at these documents would identify a number of issues and
I'd urge you to get legal advice as you're working your way through this.
Vanderhoef: Eleanor, that's why I was trying to say this is the bar owner's alcohol advisory
board, not Iowa City.
Champion: They're not making any claim that it is.
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O'Donnell: It can be the Iowa City Bar Owners.
Vanderhoef: Well, that's what it says.. .the Iowa City Alcohol Advisory Board.. . which leads
people to think that it's a council.. . approved by council and so-forth and it's not.
Before we leave this, is there any interest in council in having a keg ordinance
brought to us for discussion?
Bailey: No.
Elliott: I would like to discuss any number of things regarding some ways of addressing
this.
Bailey: I would be interested in a lot of other things, but a keg ordinance really makes
me...if you mean keg registration, that makes me really uncomfortable.
Lehman: I sense that there is an interest on the part of the council, having a work session
relative to alcohol issues, which would include keg registration, drink specials,
any number of things. When we get...
O'Donnell: After budget issues.
Champion: I'm not sure we can address those.
Wilkes: In connection with those issues, there are number of memos put in the packet,
Dee, that you asked to be in the packet, that have been written from me to the City
Council on a number of issues. Zoning has been mentioned a couple times.
Remember, there was a staff group put together that did investigate that. There
was a member to the council from Bob Miklo, about those issues, so we went
beyond that first step of identifying that...if you're looking at those issues.
Champion: I think that's a valid thing to do and I also think.. .I'm not sure about keg
ordinance registration:..! don't know enough about it to have an opinion.
O'Donnell: It can be brought up.
Vanderhoef: I'd like to have it before we get into budget so that there would be opportunities to
get them going sometime during the next semester or at least have them ready to
implement in the summer right after school is out.
Council Time
O'Donnell: Just one quick thing. I was on Dubuque Street the other day and I thought that
someone threw something at my car. There was a walnut tree on Dubuque Street,
and it a terribly unlucky day because I was then driving down Park Road to where
I lived and I got hit by another walnut. There are two walnut trees that hang out
over the street - one on Dubuque and one on Park Road. Has anyone seen these?
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October 18, 2004 City Council Work Session Page 36 of 38
Bailey: Church Street.
O'Donnell: On Church Street too?
Champion: Oh yeah. Even in my back yard.
Elliott: Even the trees don't like you, Mike. (Laughter)
O'Donnell: That could be.
Vanderhoef: You can hear the cars crunch on my street and the circle beside me.
O'Donnell: If you have a walnut falling from that height. . .
Vanderhoef: It's large hail.
Champion: The only thing that I have is again that I was in Chicago, as I always am, but
again, that parking lot where you use the credit card, where you take the ticket
and you go to an automatic place and place, kind of like you do across the street,
only you pay after before you leave.. .so you don't have to go back in two hours.
I hope we're still looking into that.
Atkins: Yes, we are. That's not been forgotten.
Champion: It's just so slick. There's no timer, no line to get out of the parking ramp.
Atkins: It was just very expensive. We will be getting a report to you on that.
Bailey: I have a question about the Dog-PAC letter that was in the info pack. Where are
we with that? The naming opportunity.
Atkins: That just came up the other day. I put that in the packet to give you a heads up.
Bailey: Are we going to talk about that?
Atkins: Eleanor, I asked to take a look at that. I talked with Terry Trueblood today and he
said he didn't have any basic troubles with it but he would prefer to have
something go through the Parks and Recreation Commission, particularly if it
comes to naming.
Bailey: We should benchmark the amount.. . and by opinion...
Atkins: They're anxious to start funding.
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October 18, 2004 City Council Work Session Page 37 of 38
Dilkes: I think it's a question of...I mean, the council has those rights. Obviously the
group doesn't.. .so there's.. .what are the logistics between the group and the
council.
Bailey: I would just encourage them to do some benchmarking locally. $25,000 is very
low for a naming opportunity. I know it's almost a fourth of what they're trying
to raise, but they might also want to look at this number as well. $150,000 in this
town is not much of a capital campaign at all.
Elliott: $25,000 you can name a gate maybe.
Atkins: Do you all object to having.. . allowing the Dog-PAC to doing a fundraiser where
the park would be named after someone who gives X-dollars?
Dilkes: We're going to have to talk about that about this a future work session.
Bailey: When we do talk about it, it would be good if we had some numbers.
Atkins: I'd like to talk to you about that.
Vanderhoef: An additional thing on parking that came up for me, looking at the Near Southside
Plan, and now that the transportation center is moving along, I want to know
about parking in that structure specifically in looking at whether we are going to
be selling monthly permits and how that may look, because I'm starting to get
questions on it and I have questions on it to.
Atkins: You asked me about that well over a month ago, and I prepared an outline on it, I
just haven't finished the work yet for you. I know you want those answers.
Lehman: You said there were going to be a significant number of permits come out of that
lot.
Vanderhoef: What I'm talking about specifically is parking for residents in apartments down
there that will be twenty-four hour rather than a nine-hour or ten-hour shift.
Atkins: I hear you, I'll pose that question.
Vanderhoef: And then.. .this rail proposal that we're to talk about JC-COG. I would like a
work session on that before...it would have to be next meeting.
O'Donnell: Do we have a JC-COG meeting on Wednesday?
Bailey: No, we don't. I thought we did too.
Champion: I thought it was last week.
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October 18, 2004 City Council Work Session Page 38 of 38
Bailey: It's this rail proposal. ..
Vanderhoef: And that's what they want an answer from council.. . and indication from council.
Akins: There should be no trouble, Ernie, putting that on the agenda for the next working
session for that item.
Lehman: Oh no. In fact, six of council go to JC-COG.
Champion: Right, so why haven't we discussed this.
Elliott: It happened on the ih.
Bailey: They want a decision?
Vanderhoef: They want a decision whether Cedar Rapids is doing it.
Lehman: Anything else?
Wilburn: I was almost bitten by the mayor's granddaughter's dog on Sunday. Other than
that.. .let's get out of here. (Laughter)
Lehman: Really, how did you managed that?
Wilburn: I was just standing around minding my own business.
Lehman: Where?
Bailey: That's how most dog-bites happen.
Wilburn: Where we play football.
Lehman: Oh, that dog doesn't bite!
(end of tape)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the October 18, 2004 Iowa City Council Work Session.