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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-04-24 TranscriptionApril 24, 1995 Council Work Session 7:45 PM Council: Horow, Baker, Kubby, Nov, Pigott, Throg. Absent: Lehman. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Ogren, Karr, Franklin, Boose, Davidson, Fosse, McClure, Burnside, Milkman, Boothroy, Pelkey. Tapes: 95-53, Side 2; 95-57, all; 95-58, Side 1. Addition to the Consent Calendar 95-53 S2 Horow/ Let's call the work session to order. piece of business here. We have got a quick Jason Evers/ I am with TCI Cable Vision and I am here to request a temporary outdoor service area for Soho's to be added to tomorrow's agenda. They are holding a benefit for a Heritage employee there Friday night. Karr/ Everything is fine. They are short one signature but I have been informed by our HIS that the approval has been given. It is simply a matter of the paperwork being submitted to the right person and signed. So it is all in order. They know they need to do that by tomorrow evening. Horow/ Great. Any problem ..... Okay, Chair would entertain a motion to adjourn the work session for a special session. (Returned to work session after executive session and special formal.) Review zoning Matters ITEM NO. 95-53 S2 6 a. Consider setting a public hearing for May 9, 1995, on an ordinance conditionally amendinq the use regulations of an approximate 1.63 acre ~ot located on the west side of Waterfront Drive, approximately 140 feet north of Stevens Drive from CC-2, Communi- ty Commercial, to CI-1, Intensive Commercial. Franklin/ This is the Gay's Locker building site that John Rummelhart now, I believe, owns and wants to get rezoned. Horow/ What is he proposing for that? Franklin/ Potential moving Contractors Tool and Supply to that site .... the whole operation. Nov/ Franklin/ He will probably construct something else. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate ~anscriptlon ofthelowa City councilmeeting of April 24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 2 Horow/ Does he have to destruct the furnace, boiler ..... that was specially zoned for the equipment? ..... Franklin/ No ..... when there was a fire there .... I don't remember Nov/ It was non-conforming but they were allowed to rebuild and we called it a meat locker and defined what a meat locker was .... We will get into the details before the meeting on May 9. ITEMNOo 6 b. Public hearing on an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 5, entitled "Building and Hous- ing," Article H, entitled "Site Plan Review," by adopting design standards for exterior stairwells and exterior corridors on multi-family residential buildings. Franklin/ To continue the p.h. on exterior stairwells. ITEM NOo 6 c. Consideration of an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 5, entitled "Building and Hous- ing," Article H, entitled "Site Plan Review," by adopting design standards for exterior stairwells and exterior corridors on multi-family residential buildings. (First consideration) Franklin/ First consideration ..... There is a memo in the packet from Bob Miklo addressing a couple of the issues that were raised. One the Wohanized lumber and the ability to paint it ....... Also the Fire Department's response that they would prefer the exterior stairwells ..... Ordinance proposal does not prohibit exterior stairwells ..... just has design considerations. Ran Boose is here if you have questions about the Building Code in relationship to exterior and interior corridors ..... Kubby/ Like Glenn was saying if you have the wall on it...whole other realm of building code area that would have to be incorporated into the design and we had asked for a list of what those things were that you would have to do additionally to the exterior stairwell that had the one wall on it ..... I would like that list. We asked for it and didn't get it. So I am kind of wondering why we didn't get it. Ran Boose/ The only design issue that comes to mind is for open-the Building Code refers to as an exterior exit ..... but under the Building Code that side of the wall has to be 65% open and Thisrepresents only araasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of April 24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 3 unobstructed for meet the natural tight and ventilation requirements... So the wall on the outside of the stairs might have some bearing on that ..... Kubby/ Glenn, you had mentioned at least two things .... briefly...list off the 2-3 things that you had mentioned. Glenn Siders/ The two things I mentioned, Ron just clarified one, it was the light requirement. And also I understood that if you enclose this ..... you then had to design for certain fire requirements under your exiting system. Those were the two comments. Boose/ The Building Code isn't specific on when it constitutes enclosed stairway but according to some of our companion books it seems to indicate as long as one side is totally open. The main concern, of course, is for the escape of smoke. It is still considered an open exterior stairs as long as one side is completely open. Kubby/ Boose/ If you start closing down on close it completely, build ..... open .... all sides then you have to prefer that two sides were Kubby/ In terms of the 65% light requirement, do you think that then becomes a design issue for that enclosed wall...? Boose/ It is going to make it difficult on the end apartments .... center ones shouldn't be a problem ..... The end ones when you put up the screen walls for the stairs it is going to create some tricky design problems ..... They would be set back far enough where they good put windows in those end walls ..... Glenn Siders/ One of the concerns I have is part of this ordinance involves not allowing ..... they are talking about enclosing the wall, 42 inch guardrail wall and that would affect your- Bo0se/ That would create a problem ..... Franklin/ This ordinance does not require that you totally enclose this. We are talking about a screening wall on it ..... And it also does not require that wall be solid in terms of light and air. Siders/ (Can't hear). Thisrepresents only ereasonably eccuratetranscdpfion ofthelowa Ci~ council meeting of Apri124,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 4 Franklin/ But you don't have to have a totally solid wall down that entire stairwell. Kubby/ You could have exposed lumber, exterior stairwell just like some new ones we have been seeing around town and the wall doesn't have to be connected to that stairwell, does it? Franklin/ The idea is to screen the stairwell. Now I don't know why you would want to pop it out too far ..... Kubby/ Siders/ The way I read that where the ordinance says you cannot have .... exposed, unpainted, or unfinished lumber. To me that says you cannot have the exposed lumber ...... Kubby/ The word exposed means untreated, not you can't see it .... Siders/ I did ask the legal staff .... They agreed the way this is drafted it could not have unpainted, unstained, or exposed lumber ..... Franklin/ I don't have a copy of the ordinance. Woito/ You talked to Sarah, Ann or Bev, Glenn? Franklin/ What is the major question here? Whether we can have exposed, unpainted, or unfinished lumber? Is that the concern or is the concern whether it is going to be the solid wall or the light and air or the fire? Kubby/ What were the list of things that would have to be done additionally and the answer that I received was the 65% light requirement that would mostly pertain to the two corner units .... design issue for those corner units. I am fine with that. Nov/ Baker/ One of the issues was whether or not we wanted to require {his front, side, back, all four, any combination of. Right? And we sort of said all four. Was that everybody,s ' 9 understanding. Screening on all four sides of the building not just the front? Franklin/ That exterior stairwells and corridors would be permitted on all sides. There are screening requirements on the front. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate trenscription of theIowa City council meeting of ApHI24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 5 There is a phrase of architecturally integrated. On the side and rear it talks about using materials that are similar to the materials of the building. So it is a similar kind of concept. You talked about extending to the other provisions of the ordinance that relate to the side and the rear the language of architecturally integrated which didn't come up in the p.h. on Tuesday night. It is not clear in my mind what the council decided about the shall and should. The minutes reflect that the council decided to change should to shall and I didn't think you had come to that conclusion. Kubby/ I think we had talked about it. I don't think we had concluded it. Nov/ I'think I had come to that conclusion and particularly on a facade that faces a public street. Kubby/ I have been looking at buildings lately ..... older buildings .... integrated beautifully... without the wall .... definitely part of the building ..... interested in saying the enclosed wall is not the only way to integrate the stairwell or corridor in ..... architecturally integrated, I would still like it to be that language and the enclosed wall would be one option ..... really is part of the structure of the building .... Franklin/ That conceptually is quite a bit different than the ordinance before you which will take some re-write. Kubby/ I want to throw it out... I think exterior stairwells and corridors can be incorporated within the building without there being an enclosed wall and I guess I would like flexibility as to how to make it. I don't want to compromise on the architectural. integrity issue but would like to allow more flexibility. Franklin/ When you lo0k...corner of Church and Dubuque Street .... without the door on the front... rear of that building .... You could say that that is architecturally integrated with that building ...... What you may be talking about is some measure of quality of that architectural integration which we'll have to define then ..... Horow/ Franklin/ It is integrated. It comes down to whether you like it or not. Thisrepresents only are~onably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of April 24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 council Work Session Page 6 Pigott/ Franklin/ Nov/ I still have a strong preference for a facade that looks like it belongs to the city with a door ..... we should do it that ~ay .... If you have a face to the street and a front door, you look like you belong to the community .... Pigott/ If you do one, doing the other would make no sense. Baker/ Horow/ Laura Hawks/ I am the Chair of DR Committee and Glenn actually walks through my office .... we had several question... after talking with Glenn... basically for the concept of integrating the stairwells into the architecture and he also had no qualms with the first paragraph of the ordinance which gives Karin Franklin... the discretion to approve or disapprove the stairwells. But he did have some problems with the actual writing'or we had problem .... with the actual language of the ordinance. Our problem is that it does not permit enough flexibility in building design and he pointed out some specific designs in town ..... Building right behind the Firestone Building which would not conform to the ordinance and it is aesthetically pleasing ..... across from Kennedy Plaza...rear stair... Other issues would be garages underneath the building. There maybe problems with designing a garage into that building with those stairwells that the ordinance requires ..... He did say he would conduct a workshop ..... to really point out what he is looking for or what the builders would want in this ordinance as well as the city so we could come to a solution on that ..... We think the language needs to be re-written. Baker/ We also agree we want more flexibility in the ordinance but without sort of relying too much on subjectivity. Horow/ Is there anyway of letting us table this and see whether or not this flexibility and appropriateness of architectural integrity can be encouraged without the regulation? Nov/ Willing to consider clearer language in the ordinance but I don't think we are going to get this unless we have an ordinance. Thisrepresents only areesonablysccuratetranscrlptlon oftbelows Ci~ council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 7 Franklin/ For the most part you are probably going to get as Glenn demonstrated builders who are going to attempt to put something together that works well for the community. Whenever we write law, we are writing for the exception, the loophole ...... that is what we are up against here, too ...... Horow/ How long is this ordinance going to take-? Franklin/ I don't know...I don't, frankly, know what you want. I don't have a clear direction here. Kubby/ Franklin/ I think I understood what the council has said today but you have had input then for some changes which are a little more ambiguous. Throg/ I think what we are kind of drifting our way into is a larger question than just stairwells and architecture. Another words... trying to integrate stairwells into the architecture of the building. That is not really what we are sort of wanting to get at. What we are wanting to get at is designing buildings so that they integrate well with the desire or existing character of the neighborhood. That is really what it is all about ...... Baker/ ...Bob Carlson was talking about design review for more than just the plaza ..... which maybe we ought to talk about. Point of clarification. You already review multi-family building permits- Franklin/ We have site plan review for over 12 units, I think it is, certain size and square footage ...... That is within the parameters of the Site Plan Review Ordinance .... the compatibility provision of that was taken out as that went through the legislative process when that ordinance was adopted. The Site Plan Review basically allows us to look at traffic circulation...screening .... where dumpsters are... kind of how the project works on the site. It does not give us any design review whatsoever. It doesn't allow us to go beyond what is prescriptive within the ordinance. Baker/ ...revision to the site review process. Throg/ ...RNC discussion .... letter .... suggesting we include some design provisions with regard to duplexes .... same point... integrating the design of the building into the community ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate trnnscrlptlon of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995, WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 8 Baker/ There is a point...uncomfortable with design review... smaller unit... 12 is too high of a cut off point ...... Kubby/ It matters if it is a conservation district or not .... Horow/ Would this have happened if it had taken place in a historic district? Would these be able to be-? Franklin/ ..... It would have to be reviewed by HP Commission ..... The only reservation I have about this for the deferral on this is that you will see projects that have exterior stairwells and just as long as you know that. Nov/ I would like us to seriously consider adopting the ordinance as is..If you want to revise it later, we always can. But we have not control at all if we don't adopt something. Kubby/ Voting for it and then with the direction that more flexibility is created. Franklin/ That larger project that you are talking about in terms of design review and neighborhood compatibility issues-we will get at some of it with the conservation district and with the work of the DR Committee as they bring their work to you. But for an overhaul of the Site Plan Review Ordinance and looking at compatibility issues in that and exactly what that means, we are very much consumed right now with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. So that is going to come first unless you tell us to stop. Kubby/ There was language in there before that was taken out. Could that be- Franklin/ At the staff level. I think it got to P/Z and was taken out. Kubby/ Could we just be forwarded what that language was-? Franklin/ Sure. Kubby/ Because if we like that language as is and it could just be placed on P/Z's agenda again ..... then there is not that development stage of the language .... Nov/ It was taken out so recently .... Kubb¥/...talking about Site Plan Review ..... This represents only a reaaonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 . . Council Work Session Page 9 Baker/ If we defer this or set it aside, we will get more of them popping up/ I think this is a flawed ordinance as is but the absence of one is a bigger flaw. Pigott/ I agree. Nov/ That is where I am going. I am not exactly with the should/shall and some of the other wordings in here but I still think we ought to adopt something. Throg/ I like the flexibility that it does provide .... Kubby/ If the majority wants to do that I would like to have a fairly short time frame by which this other flexible language gets talked about so that it is not two construction seasons from now ..... I am talking about the additional flexibility for the exterior stairwell and corridor ordinance. Horow/ But with what we were talking about this evening? Or after we look at some more material? ..... Franklin/ The architecturally integrated language that you were talking about so that is doesn't necessarily mean a screening wall. Kubby/ .... to.say that within a year. visit it before the second construction season. Baker/ I think we can do it before then. Kubby/ The time frame...the latest that it happens ..... Horow/ Move on. Kubby/ The other thing we want to clarify is do we want the shall language or the should language. We haven't really talked about it ..... Throg/ Pigott/ I said should. Baker/ I said should. Throg/ Should. Council/ (All talking). Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthalowa CIw council meetingof April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 10 Horow/ Let's go with that ..... Baker/ We stay with should but as soon as you get somebody he doesn't want to cooperate it will become shall. Horow/ Moving along. ITF2( NO. 6 d. Consideration of an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article N, entitled, "Off Street Parking and Loading," to reduce the amount of required off-street parking spaces and amend the parking area design standards in the CN-1, Neighborhood Commercial zone. (First consideration) Franklin/ First consideration .... this relates to the reduction in parking .... two memos in your packet. One was about location of parking and the other one was about a land banking and the land banking was in your information packet ..... Are there any questions about that concept ..... The location, I am just suggesting that if you want to get into that issue that we take that up separately because I think there are some complexities in making judgements about where the location should be and how absolute you want to be about it. Kubby/ Do people want to look at that issue? I seem to be the only one who is kind of interested in it. It's dead. ITEM NO. 6 e. Consideration of an ordinance conditionally amend- ing the use regulations of approximately 34.21 acres located west of Taft Avenue along Court Street extended from RS-5, Low Density Single- Family Residential, to CN-1, Neighborhood Commer- cial (6.93 acres), RM-12, Low Density Multi-Family Residential (12 acres), and RS-8, Medium Density Single-Family Residential (8.14 and 7.14 acres). (First consideration) Franklin/ First consideration in the Windsor Ridge area ..... Are we all comfortable with that? Baker/ Yes. Franklin/ Okay. ITEM NO. 6 f. Consider an ordinance establishing the Moffitt Cottage Historic District for property located Thisrepresents only areasonably acmrate transcription ofthelowa CIW coun~lmeeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 11 between Muscatine Avenue and Ralston Creek, north of Court Street. (Second consideration) Franklin/ First consideration on the Moffitt District. ITEM Nee 6 g. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," of the City Code by revising Article L, entitled "Provisional Uses and Special Exceptions," Section 1M, entitled "Neighborhood Centers,', to repeal the access requirement for neighborhood centers. (Second consideration) Davidson/ The Neighborhood centers did request expedited action along with our Community development Division .... Franklin/ The Community Development Division was concerned about the expenditure of money by Neighborhood Centers because it has an affect on funds. Horow/ Okay. Anyone have any problems with- Nov/ I think there is a good reason. Council/ (All talking). ITEM ~0o 6 h. Consider a resolution approving the final plat of Orchard View Estates, an approximate 109.77 acre, 34-1ot residential subdivision located within Frirge Area 4 on the south side of Dingleberry Road, approximately .6 miles east of Highway 1. Franklin/ This is a subdivision in the county which you approved the preliminary plat on. This is the final and the recommendation from P/Z is approval, 6/0. Any questions on that? ITF2~ NOo 6 i. Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Boyrum Subdivision, Part 4, a three lot, 11.67 acre commercial subdivision located south of Highway 6 between Boyrum Street and Waterfront Drive. Franklin/ Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Boyrum Subdivision. This is a three lot subdivision on Waterfront Drive .... you have got the one in your packet .... issues .... pedestrian access... we will get at the site plan stage. Important thing about the subdivision is that it is Thisrepr~ents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthalowa CI~ council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 12 closing off that access on the north part of lot 2 which now goes to Drugtown. Horow/ That is the best thing in the whole world ..... ITEM NO. 6 j. Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Galway Hills Subdivision, Part 2, a 14.63 acre, 24-1ot, residential subdivision, located in the southeast quadrant of the intersection of Melrose Avenue and U.S. Highway 218. Franklin/ This is a 24 lot residential subdivision on the west side of Iowa City. Subject to approval of grading and erosion control plans, storm water calculations and approval of a tree protection plan prior to final plat approval. Kubby/ Can we see the plat because there is supposedly a new one...? Nov/ Is that what we have here? Franklin/ I will try to describe that as you pass it around (refers to plat) .... to move away from the stand of Oak trees ..... done on the plat. The Tree Protection Plan needs to be submitted prior to the final plat approval. Kubby/ One thing I am a little confused about has been there has been different kinds of information given to us. The information is there are ten trees .... ten Burr Oaks, mature ..... Developers are saying three were deemed to be unhealthy via Iowa City Landscaping .... staff information says there were two that were deemed unhealthy .... two other trees were marked with some other weird kinds of markings .... Franklin/ Two that we based our statement on .... based on original letter from Iowa City Landscaping .... I can't explain the X~s. Horow/ Larry, you will have to come up. we have all seen the X's on these trees. What are they...? Kubby/ Larry Schnittjer/ I was not at the site at the time any X's were put out there. I presume that the first 2-3 X's were put out there by Paul Dystra of Iowa City Landscaping ..... I have heard since that there are as many as five trees that have Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription of theIowa Ciw council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 13 marks out there. The developers are not aware of who did the other markings or where they came from ..... Kubby/ I% is my understanding from the developers that they don't plan on taking any trees down. That they are going to let the people who buy those lots make the decisions about whether the trees deemed unhealthy will stay up or come down. Schnittjer/ If you look at the new design, lot 43 has one tree remaining on it ...... Of the ten trees, Lot 43 now only has one of those trees. The remaining trees are on Lot 44 which at the present time Mr. Cahill strongly wants to keep for himself to build his own home on ..... So ..... Franklin/ The important thing is regardless of what is said about who is going to own what, rent or build what, that we are requiring the Tree protection Plan before they do the final plat. The only verbal assurance that we have right now is statements ..... that they do not intend to cut down any of the trees before they submit the Tree Protection Plan and have it approved at the final platting process. Kubby/ ..... I am interested in also having the trees protected during construction ..... Franklin/ My understanding is the Tree Protection Plan will include protection during construction as well as the long term fate of those trees. Kubby/ I guess I need to wait and see that ..... Franklin/ You do not have that in front of you. The preliminary plat is subject to the understanding that that is going to happen before the final plat comes in ....... If they chop down those trees .... I think you would have some justification in saying no final plat. Kubby/ The neighborhood has requested that we purchase this for open space ...... doesn't seem reasonable to do that. We need to respond to that request .... Throg/ Have to have some kind of estimate ..... Kubby/ Franklin/ If there are people who wish to speak to this issue tomorrow night .... come up during public discussion or during This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 14 this item? Horow/ During this item. Kubby/ The issue...the resolution itself does not say anything about the conditions. Woito/ I just wrote a note to Karin that it should call it out. Kubby/ Throg/ I noticed there aren't any trails on it...did I overlook something? Kubby/ There is going to be a sidewalk when we widen Melrose .... 8 foot sidewalk .... Throg/ Trail...linking the northern part .... with that Melrose Trail. Franklin/ Going to look at when we were at the point of looking at construction plans for Melrose because we don't know about the grade differential ..... Davidson/ The connection... we hope to tie that into Melrose. At the very south part of the subdivision is ...working on designing Willow Creek Trail... Throg/ Wanted to ask how this fits in with the Neighborhood Open Space .... Franklin/ What we do now when we have a subdivision come in, part of the decision making about whether the land is going to be dedicated or fees in lieu of is reviewed by the P/R Commission and a subcommittee ...... Davidson/ The Willow Creek Trail...subsequent addition of this subdivision ...... Kubby/ Other issue .... making sure we have a system to keep track of open space when a whole area is deemed to need X number of acres ..... Franklin/ The CZA requires 6 acres ..... The Neighborhood Open Space Ordinance, through that calculation, only requires 2 some acres .... they will clearly be obligated to more than they would under the Neighborhood Open Space. With the final papers Thisrepresents only areasonably accuretetranscHptlon ofthe Iowa CIw council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 15 for Galway, Part 2, those papers will include the mechanism for keeping track of that open space. Horow/ I want to make sure I understand council's idea about why we would be receiving testimony from the public on this. If they are still in a mode of being concerned about the trees .... moot issue. What is it are you seeking from the public. Kubby/ If the public has made a request that they might want to speak. That is all the rational I suppose I need .... precursory remarks ..... movement of the road, movement of the cul de sac to protect the step hill and the Tree Plan .... Horow/ ...... Karin, I am going to ask you to do that. Horow/ ITEM DO o 6 k. Consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of Pelsang Place, a 3-lot, acre residential subdivision located at 114 South First Avenue. Franklin/ A three lot...subdivision on 114 S. First Avenue. This is a piece that was owned by the school district at one point in time...purchased by Pelsang Family on Washington .... and First Avenue... held up... verification...underground storage tanks... DNR requirements... ready to go... Nov/ Driveways onto Washington .... ? Franklin/ No, not without creating some kind of a flag lot .... Kubby/ Will that be a problem on that hill? ..... Franklin/ We will look at it and I will have that answer for you tomorrow. There is an existing drive there ...... This represents only 8 reasonably accurate transc[iption of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Discuss RNC-12 Zone Horow/ Council Work Session 95-53 S2 Page 16 Franklin/ After we had so~e discussion...at your last formal meeting, the council requested that staff look at preserving the character of the s.f and duplex- the s.f. and duplex character of the RNC-12 zone and what I need from you is some discussion, explanation, definition, on what you see as the character in order for us to address this issue. You have received some correspondence from Judy Sivertson and she has suggested. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-57 SIDE 1 Franklin/ Are side by side and have entrances to a street as opposed to any alley or they are within an existing structure but do not constitute an addition to that existing structure. Also that the parking be looked at in such a way that we don't have the flexibility when there is a fraction of parking. That it just goes up to the next whole number. Do those suggestions approach what the council,s concerns were about character? Or can you give me anything to work with a little bit more on what you mean by character. Baker/ .... the easiest one to deal with .... currently the Code says that a half number you go down to a lower. Franklin/ No, it is the developer's ch0ice. Sometimes they will choose to go up if they want to have more parking .... Baker/ ...inclination just to say go up. Nov/ Maybe we should apply the one parking space per bedroom count on this area. Franklin/ Is parking the issue? Horow/ No, it is part of the issue .... Kubby/ Is it an assumption that when HP Commission and P/Z look at this concept of conservation districts that RNC, whether they are 12 or 20, would be considered-will be coming a conservation district? Franklin/ It certainly is within the realm of possibility. There is not direct link between those two things. The conservation district can be applied to any area which has been defined as Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaClw council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 17 a conservation district and the characteristics of it are described as the ordinance is currently drafted. It is also not automatic that RNC would become conservation districts. Kubby/ It would make sense it would go in that direction ..... I don't want to prohibit if someone has the right to have duplexes on their lot form them adding onto their building. I do think it should flow with the building .... Nov/ We need to consider that kind of thing ..... possible that Karen it right, that you can do an integrated add on .... Franklin/ What you are talking about is the issue of design. Kubby/ ...where front doors go to. Nov/ Franklin/ When you start talking about alleys, I think we need to have-our response back to you in terms of staff position is going to be a little bit more complex than where the front doors are. Alleys serve a function ..... have considered encouraging in new developments .... Are some concepts in using alleys that are very productive to create neighborhoods. Other thing .... with the functioning of Jefferson and Market Street ..... Jefferson and Market serve as an arterial and it means traffic ..... And the alleys that there were intended to provide properties that abut them whether are one way couplets that that there is going to be are built into the system access to all of those they were s.f. or duplex. Nov/ My concern ..... It should provide access...parking...but there should still be a front door. Franklin/ Okay, it is your street face, again? Nov/ I equate this kind of add on with the back stairway ..... the only way to get to this building is ...alley .... Baker/ Where I live the alley has more life in it than the street does ..... Nov/ And you have a back door and a front door. Baker/ But you can have a duplex that faces the alley .... you shouldn't prohibit access to a duplex... from the alley ..... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CiW council mseting of Apri124,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 . . Council Work Session Page 18 Kubby/ By doing that do we decrease the flexibility of doing in- fill development .... make sure in-fill can happen .... Baker/ But the trade off of neighborhood conservation zones was the downzoning. Nov/ This would prevent a backyard for the kids to play in ..... Horow/ What is the mailing address of a house whose front door is on the alley? Franklin/ The street because the alleys have no names ..... Pigott/ Two separate addresses, same street. Nov/ Mail box on the back ..... Franklin/ Throg/ I am a bit more interested in the design of the buildings than how the design fits into the character of the neighborhood ..... some language I just kind of popped up with .... The new duplexes should reflect the predominant design patterns of existing s.f. houses in the zone. Franklin/ Throg/ In the zone. Like if it is in a particular RNC zone, I think it is safe to presume there is a predominate s.f. house design ..... If we think in terms of what we want that neighborhood to look like and become .... reinforcing the pattern .... s.f. neighborhood. Franklin/ What you are talking about is the concept of conservation district and I guess the question that I have for you is whether you want us to attempt to put something together such as language that you have, Jim, that we would insert into the code at this time or to wait for the conservation district that is before the HP Commission now and will probably be to the council within a month or month and a half. Kubby/ I think we are on our way with the conservation district and there is this unfortunate specific that happened in an RNC-12 neighborhood and we are in process with something that will protect that neighborhood into the future if it becomes a conservation district and other districts that are deemed conservation district. Because your language doesn't Thlsrepres~ts only areason~lysccuratetranscrlptlon oftholowa Cl~ council meetlngofAp~124,1995. WS0~2495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 19 incorporate the design of the add on to the current structure and I would like to add that to what you said and maybe relay this conversation to HP to make sure that those concepts are incorporated. Horow/ Integrity of the neighborhood .... Whatever happens to this house does not detract from the integrity of a whole neighborhood. Frankl.in/ The process of establishing those districts requires that you identify the prevalent architectural features and characteristics of the neighborhood or the district so that you have a bench mark from which to measure. That it is not a Judgement of a staff person who is looking at a building permit ..... But there are identified characteristics for each conservation district. Horow/ Aren't we talking about the bizarre .... Kubby/ ...... looks pretty hodgepodge in terms of how it is connected to the original structure and the -The beauty of the conservation district is we don't get into this changing of the definition of duplex and s.f. home. It does it for everybody and every structure and every lot in the conservation district. The conservation district is on its way. It is more comprehensive and it is going to do what they are asking to be done and what we have been talking about we want to happen. Horow/ Kubby/ I guess I want to ask people from the neighborhood to think about this conversation tonight and give comments to all of us tomorrow or sometime soon ..... Nancy Carlson/ We are concerned about the appearance of the building and keeping the integrity of our neighborhood. But the other thing that we are concerned about are the size of our lots again which is something that we discussed last time .... In our neighborhood .... Bob Miklo... 30 lots in this area that of 1,000 square feet ..... but they can be developed for duplexes ..... most of those 8,000 sq. feet lots are in the 800 and 900 and 1,000 block area of Jefferson and Market. They are all concentrated in this one small little neighborhood. So I am very concern ..... Cindy .... has already taken two lots and divided them in a way that isn't common in any other place .... in most areas of the city ..... I am very concerned Thisrepresents only arensonably accuretetmnsmtptlon ofthelowa City counctl meeting of April 24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 20 about this after having looked at the frontages of the lots ..... There area some other things that I would like to discuss .... I don't know... last time .... from RM-12 to RNC-12 zone ..... We dealt basically with the minimum lot area .... A family house in the RM zone had to have at least 4,000 sq. feet. That went up to 5,000. The minimum width for the front yard had been 35 feet for a s.f. It went up to 45 feet. Everything for s.f. went up. But everything for duplexes stayed the same ..... In the 600 and 700 block of our area ..... almost all of the majority of lots are 40 feet across the front .... But when you get to the 800 and 900 and 1000 block of Jefferson and Market, you are dealing with lots that are 80 feet, 60 feet, 90 feet .... We want to make sure the buildings that are compatible with our neighborhood ..... I look at what Cindy has done ..... I looked at all these other lots .... This is something ..... In our neighborhood we have a lot of little houses on big lots. They are very vulnerable ..... Kubby/ That is how we rezoned it, to allow duplexes and I guess you are asking us to reconsider that? Carlson/ .... In that particular zone ..... want it to be protected .... Did you people realize that you were only giving us part of it and not all of it... what was your intention and what is your intention now? Baker/ Distinction...difference between the goal of the zone to stabilize this neighborhood without making it static. We cannot stop ..... But it seems to me .... I don't know if you are asking us to look for a way to downzone it further to prevent duplexes period or- Carlson/ I think I would like to see it-You made it a little more difficult to build a s.f. house in this zone from the RM-12. You didn't make it anymore difficult to build a duplex. Maybe we need to look at making it a little more difficult to build a duplex ..... maybe the front yard thing or minimum lot width instead do it being 45, maybe 50 or 55. Just a small amount just to make sure that we don't end up with all duplexes .... We have been sort of stung twice now .... wait a minute, I really want to know what'I am dealing with. Horow/ We can't give you the answer. Carlson/ I just wanted you to be aware of this because .... I was pretty naive ..... This represents only a repsonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 21 Horow/ You are no different than any of us .... Your neighborhood is experiencing something that who could have predicted this. What we learned from you this evening will be helpful ..... What language we can put into this right now I think we have to have some options .... conservation district .... Baker/ Ron is here .... clarification as far as what is happening as far as building permits .... Ron Boose/ 944...they are building an addition on the back of an existing s.f. home. Baker/ ...bedrooms and bathrooms? Boose/ The way that floor plan is laid out there are two bedrooms on the second floor with one bathroom. The main floor has a living room, kitchen and there is a half bath in there and then the basement has a bedroom and a bath that may or may not be developed currently ..... Really not unlike a lot of s.f. dwellings we see .... as far as bedroom and bathroom layout. Baker/ Thank you. Kubby/ In terms of RNC zone, is that correct...the setbacks for s.f. homes were made more restrictive but not for the duplex. Franklin/ It was lot width and it is 45 feet is the minimum lot width in the RS-8, RS-12, and RNC-12. Kubby/ Was that changed going into the RNC versus RM-127 Franklin/ I can't answer that right off .... my recollection was that when we went from RM-12 to RNC-12 we took the dimensional requirements of the RS-12 and used those ..... The minimum lot width in the R m-12 s.f. is 35, duplex is 45 and what it is now is 45 for everything. So that as you increase the lot width you are requiring more of land. A 90 foot frontage you could split to have two lots ..... Baker/ And is 45 the same for all duplex zones, all duplexes everywhere? Franklin/ Yes, I guess it is. Nov/ What is the minimum lot width in RS-8? Franklin/ 45. 45 in RS-8, 45 in RS-12 and RS-5 it is 60 feet. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City coun~l meeting of April 24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 22 Nov/ Z can't see changing this to something more restrictive than an RS-8 or RS-12. Franklin/ I think what the concern is is what the configuration of the lots are in those blocks of Jefferson Street. Maybe we should look at that, see what kind of sq. footage we are looking at, .what kind of widths. Horow/ Plus where the conservation language. Kubby/ The conservation language won't have anything to do with the point that Nancy is making. So you are going to look at that separately? Franklin/ You want to know the status of the conservation district? Where it is? Horow/ Yes. Kubby/ And to pass on this conversation about compatibility within the neighborhood and any new construction attached to current structure. Franklin/ That is the essence of the conservation district that they are already talking about. Thisrepresents only areesonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of April24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 23 Sidewalk Cafes 95-57 s1 Karr/ This item was placed back on your agenda prior to your p.h. tomorrow evening. We did give some suggested language to some of your concerns expressed the other evening and place it on tonight for further discussion, maybe clarification, prior to tomorrow evening. Kubby/ Could we just go down issue by issue 1. HOURS .... go to 7:00 AM so people can do pre-work eating and drinking before work...ped-mall our crews are trying to get in there and clean. Karr/ Our goal was to make it consistent for all sidewalk cafes .... Kubby Other option would be to make it a letter starting date everywhere .... concern... make sure our CBD along ped mall... Nov/ We want to tell people if you are going to open up your cafe at 7:00 AM you are going to pick up first, clean up your area .... Kubby/ Horow/ .... Have a non-restaurant next to it. How do you get the coordination with the d.t. crew...? Kubby/ Baker/ 7:00 is fine. Kubby/ 7:00 for all. What about this other thing about hours? They must operate same hours as the restaurant kitchen. Nov/'Confusing. Kubby/ If your kitchen is not open, neither is your cafe. Nov/ If the cafe is allowed to be open until 10:00 PM ...... Baker/ Does the Java House have a kitchen as such? Throg/ They sell the bakery stuff. Kubby/ Wouldn't apply to coffee houses ..... This represents only ereesonably eccuratetrans~iptlen ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 24 Karr/ Coffee house is definition of restaurant but there are other provisos in there that define a restaurant and kitchen is one of them. Nov/ If they don't have a kitchen, they can't have a sidewalk cafe? Karr/ According to the way this is written right now. Baker/ But if they call themselves a coffee house they can. Karr/ No, it simply allows establishments that meet the other criteria including coffee houses to be a sidewalk cafe. But it must meet the criteria of restaurant first. Kubby/ Nov/ Can we say the sidewalk cafe may operate the same hours as restaurant's kitchen but no earlier or later rather than they must operate the same hours. Karr/ Sure. Pigott/ Sure. Karr/ 7:00 AM starting time. Did we agree? Pigott/ Yes. Karr/ And 10:00 and 12:00 close? Kubby/ Yeah. Nov/ I am not sure I want to go until midnight, though. Throg/ Then go home earlier. Nov/ I am just not sure that this is a reasonable hour. Kubby/ Throg/ Pigott/ A lot of places that don't sell alcohol are closed before midnight Nov/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 25 Baker/ Horow/ 2. LITTER/CLEAN UP Kubby/ Yes, five feet around, yes. Throg/ 3. SUNSET CLAUSE. Why have a sunset clause? Horow/ For me it is the whole issue of evaluation ..... feasibility... problems ..... Throg/ Having continual feedback... If we have an automatic repealer that is only 1 1/2 years from now, that would inhibit .... Kubby/ .... Need to discuss what the date is. Throg/ I am saying why have an automatic repealer because you will always have continual feedback. Horow/ .... We have to rely totally on enforcement of our Police Department .... in their best interest to make this work... or it does come to a close ..... Nov/ ...will get more public input .... Kubby/ For some reason this seems to be a very risky thing .... helps minimize the risk .... an experiment with an end date. Pigott/ .... end of 1996 Kubby/ Totally disagree with that date. So we have at least four people who are at least for a sunset clause. Throg/ 1996 is much too soon. Kubby/ One of the things...if you want us to invest in furniture .... It has to be able to live its life .... I would say at least two seasons .... heard from person from Pancheros... two year life cycle from outside ..... Baker/ Isn't this a two year season? Nov/ Throg/ Thlsreprese~ts only a reasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CJ~ council meeting of April24,1995, WS04249§ April 24, 1995 Kubby/ I would like clause.~ Nov/ I want a 1996 sunset January 1 ..... Kubby/ Council Work Session Page 26 to say '97 or I won't support the sunset clause. I will go with 1997 if it is Throg/ Oppose sunset clause unless it is at least November 1, 1997. Horow/ I will have '96. Pigott/ I prefer later, of course ..... Kubby/ Would you vote against a sunset clause if it were not '97? Pigott/ Well, you know, argument .... expenses...unless they had a couple of years...persuasive ..... I think the important thing .... so much you have a chance to re-visit it ..... Gives a better chance for businesses to go ahead .... Horow/ Prairie Lights is ready to move out tomorrow .... Nov/ I can see putting it on the agenda in 1996 because there are problems...real concern... is people will accept it as a given... I want them to look at it as something that .... will be discussed again. Pigott/ Nov/ I think this gives it two seasons .... Baker/ Kubby/ We have to amend all of these things individually tomorrow night .... argue about it then and vote it up or down. Baker/ '96 is no problem with me. '97 is a problem with me ..... Throg/ We chose not to put in sidewalk cafe .... Nov/ There will be people who will look for that excuse. Horow/ 4. DESIGN REVIEW. Kubby/ The review process of Title 14, Chapter 4. is that for the vending carts? Thisrepresents only areasoneblyaccurato transcription ofthelowa CI~ council meeting of Apri124,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 27 Karr/ It is exactly the language we have right now for plaza cafes and vending carts. It simply mirrors that same language. Nov/ Karr/ Consistently° Throg/ ...So, DR Cormmittee.would review any sidewalk cafe anywhere that a sidewalk cafe is permitted. Karr/ In the language right here, it would, yes. The proposed language that came from the staff included and mirrored the same language where it would just be in the plaza area. Throg/ I would think we would want to area or any other area to which Committee authority to review it. limit it to just we subsequently the plaza grant DR Karr/ We certainly can provide that. This language does not. This language goes the other way and says all sidewalk cafes shall be subject to the design review process which I thought was the intention the other evening in the p.h. Perhaps I misunderstood. But it certainly could say that. Throg/ Nov/ I thought we were talking about d.t. Karr/ CB-2, CB-5, CB-10 and those zones extend beyond the conventional d.t. Kubby/ Karr/ What is council's pleasure? You have three options. i-To remain it in the plaza. 2- All of them. 3- As Jim outlines, to do it within the prerogative after you extend the area and scope of the- Horow/ There are four people who are willing to go with this in all of the areas. 5. RESTAURANT DEFINITION. Kubby/ It says cocktail lounge or tavern. That means they don't have to serve food, right? Karr/ No. It again goes back to the definition of restaurant and it must meet all of the definition first and then simply Thisrepresents only areesonably accurate ~anscription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of AFil 24, 1995, WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 28 clarifies that if all of those met it may include any of these areas. This was put in because of the ice cream shop and coffee shop question and whether that would be a restaurant. Nov/ Why did we put in a bar? Karr/ This language was mirrored from the zoning ordinance .... consistency between the definition of restaurant and both the zoning ordinance and outdoor service area. Kubby/ We need to clarify that strongly .... Karr/ ....A. through F. would specify the restaurant definitions and those being the fact that it serves meals, full service menu, person on site .... kitchen separate and equipped. Nov/ However, this gets around my first concern that something like a coffee house where they are serving coffee and pastry-does that constitute preparing meals? Karr/ If the meals are prepared and cooked on the premises for consumption. If it meets the other criteria, it could, yes. Nov/ But it doesn't. Woito/ The coffee is prepared there. Nov/ But is that a meal. Woito/ It is to some of us. Kubby/ The thing I most want to prevent is- Woito/ Kubby/ But what about an establishment whose major service to the community is serving alcohol and has a microwave and does chili dogs... will that come under this definition to be allowed. Karr/ If they have an employee whose primary duty is cooking those chili dogs it may. Kubby/ Woito/ People use microwaves at home .... Thisrepresents only erassonably accuratetranscrlptlon oftbelows City councilmeetlngofAprl12¢,1995, WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Horow/ Karr/ It also notes... Holds itself up and advertises as a restaurant. That is built in. Horow/. 6. PLACEMENT OF TABLES AND CHAIRS ON CORNERS. Does anyone have any comment about this? Pigott/ ..."in street corner areas...,, Can you explain that a little bit? Karr/ Not when Ron is sitting right there. Woito/ Ron can do it. Karr/ This deals with that triangle where we added clarification .... street corner areas... Boose/ It is simply a vision triangle. and extend it all the way to the Pigott/ Karr/ We have a few restaurants Pigott/ ...it is done in all sorts of places .... Horow/ 7. NOTIFICATION PROCEDURE. Kubby/ I think the three on each side is really important. Horow/ Nov/ We sidewalk cafe based on the objections of the neighbors? Karr/ That is council prerogative. Kubby/ Up to discretion of council. Nov/ You are making this far more difficult than it has to be. Pigott/ Giving the council the ability to- Kubby/ To say no. Page 29 for You take the building line curb ..... that would meet that criteria. (does drawing) have notified these people. Are we going to deny the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 . . Council Work Session Page 30 Baker/ Why does it have to be the council versus the Board of Adjustment 9 Woito/ Because you have control of the r.o.w. Horow/ 8. TRASH RECEPTACLES .... Okay. The sidewalk committee addressed the other issues. Kubby/ Me had talked about restriction on drink specials on the outdoor cafe and I think we should do that. Pigott/ I agree. Karr/ We can do that. Not in the ordinance but certainly in the agreement. Kubby/ I think we should do that. Horow/ Anything else? Throg/ I don't understand why we need a diagram of the area for storage of equipment. Karr/ That was a request on behalf of the sidewalk committee after reviewing ordinances from around the country to assure that individuals realize the responsibility to store the equipment Nov/ ...carry it back inside .... Karr/ We want them to confirm that they know they must remove it and note where they are going to store it .... Kubby/ Nov/ Pigott/ I don't like the requirement .... it may not be where they end up storing it at the end of the time ..... We want them to do is put it inside. Horow/ Karr/ Language was suggested...only to acknowledge that they do have to store it .... Intent was a recognition that they are responsible for storing the equipment. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of April 24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 31 Nov/ ...have a sentence saying I understand the equipment will be stored inside. Karr/ And not show it on the diagram .... sure .... We certainly can do that .... we can change that. Kubby/ .I have another issue. I would like to say there is no smoking allowed in the outdoor cafe ..... to say whatever policy you have on the inside, like a smoking and a non-smoking section, that you have that on the outside. Throg/ Kubby/ You are extending your business out .... Nov/ Baker/ Pigott/ A concentration in one location- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-57 SIDE 2 Kubby/ Doesn't seem like there is support for no smoking .... Baker/ I think it is unjustified. Kubby/ Horow/ ...anything else? Nov/ Talk about this liquor license and contiguous .... big one. I am willing to say it has to be contiguous. I am not willing to bend the state law on that issue. I can't see any reason why it should not be contiguous. Throg/ You mean #2., do the second option? Kubby/ I would love if the definition of contiguous included a little flag thing that had a public easement over it... Not interested in thwarting state law ..... Karr/ Woito/ Karr/ All of the mobile vending carts right now are in Zone 2 ..... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetrsnscrlptton ofthelowa Cl~ council moe~ng of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 32 Kubby/ Throg/ I was inclined to support the second one also. Karr/ #2? Kubby/ Yeah.. Karr/ What about the issue of Zone 2? That takes care of itself? If does if you are an alcohol establishment. If you are a non- alcohol establishment you still stay in Zone 1 with the present language. Nov/ Even if you have an alcohol license, if they want to put a cafe in Zone 2, they can say the alcohol license applies to inside only .... Karr/ Not according to the language we just agreed on in #1. It is the possession of an alcohol permit, not the serving of it. Nov/ No ..... Karr/ Going back to my memo, #1 ...... Woito/ The language possessing a current alcoholic beverage license would really preclude #2. Kubby/ If we wanted to do that we need to find the language to make it be the way we want it to be. That is there job. Woito/ What you do with the hours is change it to serving. Karr/ If indeed you then are satisfied that nobody inside will bring alcoholic beverage outside. Nov/ It is an enforcement question ...... Karr/ Nov/ Kubby/ Too complicated. Woito/ Go with contiguous and not this picture. Pigott/ Yes ..... Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlonofthelowa City councllmeetlngofAprl124,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 33 Woito/ What I am saying is you can opt for something more creative and I can't guarantee we can defend it but it is up to you. Pigott/ I think we do the contiguous. Woito/ Okay. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CIW council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 34 Council Aqenda/Time 95-57 S2 1. Kubby/ Ron .... Letter from Harvey Wehde .... But I guess I want to ask Ron...if you would make them clean it up ..... Ron Boose/ I will look at it. Kubby/ We don't need to talk about it tonight. Boose/ I will look at the site .... Kubby/ Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 35 Merqer of HousinQ Commission and CCN 95-57 S2 Marianne Milkman/ This has come about...idea of consolidating various HUD programs and what is happening is that housing is really no longer separate from job services, homelesshess, everything is going together and we are finding that the two commissions are a lot of the time working on the same things and making recommendations on the same things .... A good time to think about having just one commission deal with all of these programs .... members of both commissions are here tonight. They both voted for a merger unanimously in both cases .... they do have questions... have not worked out details .... We wanted to get a feel from you whether this is something you want to pursue. Horow/ ...how do we do the appointments...? Milkman/ Kubby/ It was suggested that we appoint with the understanding that those three people would resign when the merger is complete. Woito/ Milkman/ You are not extending. You are reappointing. You would just reappoint them and actually ..... Nov/ Why do we do this...leave these vacancies, merge these committees and go from there. Milkman/ We have to go through the business of putting some structure to this committee .... got to undo... rescind the two resolutions that established the Housing Commission and CCN and establish a new commission with some kind of name...by- laws...duties... work to be done .... Housing Commission is only a seven member commission .... 3 members whose terms are up on May 1 ..... Nov/ Meetings within the next month or so that cannot be cancelled? Boothroy/ I wouldn't want to cancel any of the meetings for the Housing Commission because I don't know whether there would be another application we would want to bring before you in that interim .... the members that are being reappointed have a lot of experience and background ..... Experience that both commission can use. Kubby/ What is the peak time of the Housing Commission? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetrens=lptlonofthelowa CiW council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 36 Boothroy/ ...~ff peak time is usually August .... They meet every month .... cancelled meetings in late summer .... CCN has also cancelled their meeting in August .... Kubby/ Less down time for both commissions...peak time is distributing HOME funds .... Boothroy/ Spring is probably the busiest time .... January through June. Kubby/ I just asked Linda if there was a problem with us appointing people who had not applied and the answer was yes ..... So the current commission members would be re-applying? Karr/ Three of them did .... Woito/ They all have. Kubby/ What I would like us to do .... to reappoint the three current members with the understanding that they would resign. Is that we let the two people who applied that aren't those three current Housing Commission members know with a specific letter stating...explain those reasons just so they know what is going on ...... Horow/ Milkman/ You will be getting a new page 40 for City Steps for the final document. Linda Murray/ At CCN's meeting most of the members...agree that once we have done this merger we would like to have a meeting with council, a joint meeting, to discuss what I brought up earlier about the Life Skills thing and also there was questions brought up that Housing Commission members .... information for the committee and how much information are they legitimately entitled to and should get and how much we don't really need .... Pigott/ What kind of questions? Murray/ I think it had to do with some of the Housing Commission business and things like they didn't know how much they had a legitimate right to ask for. Horow/ ...when the two groups work to merge into one that they could discuss. This represents only a reasonably accurste transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 37 Woito/ They can talk to staff about it and then if there is a legal q~estion...they can come to us. Horow/ Murray/ ...we need to agree with you all .... Nov/ There was reference to attrition. When does the CCN have an expiration date ..... Karr/ They are staggered. July, November, March, April .... July 1, 1995 we have a term expiring and then we have three in November. Nov/ Milkman/... not standard... Nov/ I thought when someone was appointed to an unexpired term .... Milkman/ .... at all strange times ..... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscrlption ofthelowa City council meating of April24,1995, WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 38 Appointments 95-57 S2 Horow/ Council's pleasure to reappoint already ..... The whole appointment they will be dropped .... the three who have served business will be changed, [John "Jack" McMahon Ben Moore Roger Reilly] Kubby/ As long as that is the understanding .... Until the merger is complete .... resign at the end .... Nov/ ..... if we are going to form a new committee I would like to get some new people involved. Horow/ Thisrepresents only arousonebly accurate transcription oftholowa Citycouncil msetlngofApd124,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 39 Discuss Burlington 95-57 S2 Horow/ & Gilbert Street Intersection Reconstruction Fosse/ There aren't too many issues involved in this. I just wanted to give you an update on it and see if your feelings have changed on it. Our update with the DOT is...they still have not decided on what they are doing .... bridge designers haven't been working on the design lately and that translates .... If they do decide to replace the bridge it probably won't happen next summer ..... accident statistics .... slipped by the point at which we can get this completed before the beginning of football season .... Kubby/ Even if they don't do the bridge next year we were planning on doing this in two years anyway .... flip flop two different years ..... Big thing is do we want to do it as two projects and save the 50-60% preparation efforts moneys ..... Woito/ Is that 50-60% time or money? Fosse/ ...If their bridge project indeed slips into '97 then that won't be an issue. We can go ahead and build in '96 and they will build in '97. Nov/ I don't understand what the significance of the coal tar is? Does it mean they will not re-build the bridge if they find coal tar? Fosse/ .... There is coal tar in the r.o.w. or in the area they would like to acquire for additional r.o.w. and I think there is also coal tar that has found its way with in the r.o,w. The DOT is hesitant to acquired additional land that is already encumbered with that type of problem and that is what they are struggling with right now. Nov/ Deficiency on which they cannot build a bridge? What is the real problem? Woito/ It is a hazardous clean-up...superfund. Nov/ But they have to clean it up anyway. Woito/ No they don't. Not if they don't disturb it. Horow/ They would leave the bridge there forever and ever? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe Citycouncil meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 40 Woito/ Yes. If they don't disturb it they can leave it. Pigott/ Fosse/ I don't know a lot about coal tar and how mobile it is in soil ...... Horow/ How do we know i~ won't go into the creek? Woito/ You don't. Nov/ Fosse/ The bridge has got problems .... so if they decide they are not going to widen the existing structure by reconstructing it, they have go to look at options of replacing it within existing r.o.w. or nursing this present structure along. Arkins/ ...they are bound to disturb some of the r.o.w. Fosse/ Yes .... Jeff has been working with the DOT on this. That for some reason they are more comfortable disturbing their own r.o.w ..... rather than acquiring additional ..... Nov/ But they got the liability. Woito/ They don't want anymore. Nov/ ...Anybody next door can claim that they are liable. Atkins/ Why don't they go after the utility company? Woito/ Maybe they are defunct. I don't know ...... Horow/ Bottom line is there a consensus here that we wait on this. Kubby/ Yeah. Horow/ We need signals from your office in terms of when you want us to start all over again. Fosse/ Okay. Atkins/ But you expect us to bring it back to you. Kubby/ .... have south side design plan .... DR Committee... more options and ideas about landscaping ..... Thisrepresents only areasonebly accurate transcription ofthelowe City council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 41 Nov/ Make sure ..... bid in better off waiting ..... inflation factor ...... an off season ..... the economics... competition will probably offset the Thisrepresents only areasonably ac~ratetranscripfion ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofApri124,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 42 Construction Debris/Landfill Alternatives 95-57 S2 Arkins/ Two memos...very straight forward. We want to propose a Wood Waste Separation Program at the landfill .... We would put loads of untreated wood waste. We would reduce the tipping fee to $30. We would process the clean wood waste with our yard waste. The question is do you want us to do it? Nov/ Untreated .... Atkins/ It was proposed .... letter you got for the Homebuilders .... We are ready to go ..... Kubby/ $30...is it still going to be a good incentive? Horow/ Atkins/ $30. Nov/ $30 for residents and non-residents. Atkins/ $30 period. Floyd Pelkey/ Wafer board...wouldn,t want to run through that ..... Talked to one company down in Fairfield, Iowa ..... Talked to Mark Ebel .... wood chips ..... It is just something to look at. Atkins/ Is it a go? Kubby/ Definitely. Nov/ What they are wanting is construction wood chips or all wood chips. Pelkey/ They want wood chips from wood pallets ..... They don't want anything from trees because of the bark ..... Horow/ Is this going to be in competition with Riverside pallet? Pelkey/ I don't believe so ..... may be able to help out... As they grow they are going to be needing more wood chips. Horow/ All right. Next subject. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council m~otlng of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 43 Landfill Surcharqe Fees 95-57 S2 Arkins/ BottDm line is we have exceeded the 25% goal. Thereby the state is going to reduce its tonnage fee by 25 cents which amounts to $20,000 a year ..... Three choices: reduce the per ton rate by the 25 cents; keep the 25 cents and direct it into our reserves; or use it for out Toxic Clean Up ...... Reserves are healthy .... Kubby/ Toxic Clean Up...I would advocate that..osecondly reduce it. Arkins/ As a staff, that is what we came up with ..... We don't have a strong recommendation .... Pigott/ Do the Toxic Waste-? Nov/ While we are on Toxic Waste. What is the day and the time on Toxic Waste? Pelkey/ May 20 and it would be from 8:00 to 3:30 by appointment only and appointments, we will be taking appointments 2 weeks prior to the event. Kubby/ Announce it tomorrow night. Pelkey/ Atkins/ We need volunteers. Nov/ Kubby/ I have all of that down. Pelkey/ ... will be beautiful weather .... Pigott/ Who do they call if they want to get people involved? Pelkey/ Brad .... 365-5235. Kubby/ I have all of that down ..... Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meo~ngof April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session BBops 95-57 S2 Atkins/ You asked that BBops be put on the agenda. Horow/ Creative ideas. Pigott/ Give out cookies on the bus ..... Kubby/ Horow/ Work with the bus business .... Page 44 Thisrepresents only areasonably accuretetranscrlptlon ofthelowe Ci~ council meetingof April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 45 Council Agenda/Time Continued 95-57 S2 2. Horow/ What is your idea for Winter Wonderland in July which is the theme for 4th of July? Kubby/ Someone suggested this to me...We wrap one of us in red crepe paper .... some people are trying to cut through it .... Horow/ Keep thinking ..... Think about something to do with winter .... taking snow plow along .... 3o Baker/ Send a letter to Linda Murray telling her I have been the unofficial rap to CCN but .... asking somebody else to be stepping in ..... that is open. Baker/ (Agenda #21a-CONSIDER A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE REGARDING THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT PROJECT ON THE OLD PUBLIC LIBP~Y PARKING LOT SITE.) Question about DR being asked to to look at the Carnegie Plaza .... Nov/ She recommended a courtesy review. Horow/ I have a question...Larry, do you belong to the coop? Baker/ Jim- Horow/ James, do you belong to the coop. Pigott/ I do, I am a coop member. Horow/ And I do .... It occurred to me that we might have some sort of a conflict of interest .... Woito/ It is a very modest percentage ...... Horow/ All right, so we don't have any problems with that .... Woito/ It is just so remote. Kubby/ Horow/ Folks, did you just agree that you wanted DR to do a courtesy? Council/ Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995, WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 46 Kubby/ 5. Baker/ Proclamation on Teenage Sexuality .... period where there should be a comma. Horow/ Do you all really want me to read this tomorrow night? Throg/ I don't .... Atkins/ We get these in the office .... Kubby/ ...I really think we should talk about it. Baker/ I did have a question about ..... hard time interpreting our council .... Horow/ Most of the proclamations are geared towards this city ..... Throg/ .... But I think it is embarrassing to promote teenage sexual abstinence. In particular 18 and 19 years olders are teenagers ..... I don't think the government has any business telling teenagers whether or not to engage in sexual behavior ...... challenge is to make sure they do it safely ..... The language is something I can't support the way it is ..... Kubby/ Throg/ Baker/ Horow/ Even Healthy People 2000 has grants that are working on this .... It is the government... public moneys ..... Done within a prevention mode... preventing teenage pregnancies .... Kubby/ I tend to agree with you on the abstinence issue and would like to see we can talk to the people who presented this to us ..... that deleted. Horow/ Are there four people who wish to delete this? Nov/ I would have no objections .... Arkins/ Lorraine would know. Horow/ Okay, let me look into it. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CIw councilmeeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Baker/ Jim ..... Throg/ Horow/ I would encourage instead of Throg/ No ..... Baker/ Throg/ Horow/ Council Work Session whole discussion .... Page 47 strongly ask whether you could live with the word support. Kubby/ There are a lot of young people practicing safe sex ..... Baker/ I think part of the problem is once you get past 18-19 you are not dealing with my kids .... different group ..... Nov/ What difference does it make .... saying we are encouraging the community to wear white ribbons. Horow/ Folks, do you want to pull this one...? Nov/ I have not problem pulling it ..... My feeling it was sent out by the Governors's Office .... no problem pulling it. Kubby/ Pigott/ Yank it. 6. Baker/ I will say this one more time, the volume of our packets ..... (Don't include disbursements) Horow/ Is there a legal reason that these are on the agenda? Karr/ Disbursements have to be approved. I don't know whether they have to be included. We could have it on file. Woito/ They don't have to be distributed. They just need to be approved Horow/ Agreed .... consensus here .... Karr/ We still have to publish them... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 48 Kubby/ When we get a petition, petition on file in the Clerk's Office ..... 7. Kubby/ I got a suggestion for an amendment to an ordinance that sounds like it makes sense to me. This woman had her car damaged by a dumpster that blew in the wind at an apartment building and there is no law that says there has to be brakes or...some kind of locking device on the dumpsters ..... property owner's insurance company...this has happened six times and there is no basis for a claim because the city doesn't have anything that requires the brakes on the dumpsters. Woito/ They are responsible for their property not damaging someone else's property. Kubby/ All I am doing is passing on. If we want to look at this. If it takes just a split second of staff time. Atkins/ It is easy to check for you. Kubby/ Talked with the county, it was suggested at the city/county meeting that we establish a time line for discussion of the Fringe Area and we never really decided to do that. Horow/ It came in conflict with our CIP. We had suggested either 30/31 and - Kubby/ ..... That that we say within seven months or some time frame that we are going to deal with this .... Atkins/ I keep on my list of pending agenda item... put a time on it .... Kubby/ I want us to have some resolution about it. Nov/ Schedule that for a Joint City/County meeting with one item on the agenda ...... Kubby/ Atkins/ You are saying pick a time. Horow/ Sliding into the fall .... Nov/ Go fo~ July or August ..... Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowa City councilmeetingofAprl124,1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Throg/ We need to have a negotiating posture .... want ..... Page 49 that says what we Kubby/ We have the negotiating power...have the legal right...we are going to do what the state allows us to do .... much more restrictive ..... Horow/ Give ourselves a four month...September 1 deadline before that we must discuss it among ourselves. Arkins/ I will have it back in front of you as a reminder periodically. 9. Kubby/ We were asked by the DTA about Bus and Shop, decreasing the Bus and Shop thing to $.35 ..... Atkins/ I will prepare some numbers for you. Baker/ Atkins/ I was surprised to see it pop up in a letter ..... We will run the numbers for you. Nov/ Atkins/ Karr/ From $.50 to .35 Baker/ Nov/ What are we doing for the parking .... Kubby/ It is $.35 for the parking and they want it to be the same. 10. Kubby/ Comes from update about Towncrest Relocation. The letter received from Eagle .... Like us to send another letter that is more firmly requesting September 1. There has been no movement ...... to demolish ..... and no site plan has been given to Planning. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-58 SIDE 1 11. Pigott/ So we got a memo from council member Larry Baker about sales tax and I think it would be smart to talk about it in an informal session sometime. Horow/ All right. This represents only a reasonably accurate trenscription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 50 Arkins/ You have your meeting on the 11th. Pigott/ Right. Kubby/ I will not be at that meeting at all. I have office hours and teaching at class ..... Arkins/ Do you want a separate discussion? Is that what you are asking? Horow/ You will not be at the May 11 meeting? Kubby/ I have office hours every Thursday and I am teaching a class at 6:00. Baker/ I don't think we need to do it before May 11. We need to do it before August. Pigott/ I saw the memo...sometime. 12. Nov/ I have a couple of questions. When we had a memo about mediation with Nila Haug. It did not mention a city attorney to be present at that. Shouldn,t there be one? Woito/ There can be. I am sure Bey would be happy to participate or Ann. Nov/ It just seemed to me the kind of thing where there should be somebody there for legal advice. Woito/ Then Nile could want her attorney there and- Kubby/ That kind of defeats the purpose of it and I think- Woito/ There really aren't any legal issues in that. It is purely communication ..... Kubby/ Something like that...both parties would have to agree to who is present... Woito/ I told Bey let the mediator set it up. It is their meeting. So I didn't anticipate that Bey would be there. 13. Nov/ P/Z minutes...something about deferring annexation of the water site. Thisrepresents only areasonebly accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of April 24, 1995. WS042495 April 24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 51 Woito/ Yes. That was at my request. It was too hard to explain to P/Z about the declaratory judgement action, the condemnation appeals and all of that. And I said let's just wait until things settle down and then we will annex. Nov/ Okay. 14. Nov/ Is there any progress on cable t.v. and franchise? Kubby/ And how can we be more aggressive and make it happen. Helling/ You will get a memo from me hopefully by the end of the week telling you where we are. We have meetings scheduled for two weeks from tomorrow and- Kubby/ I am getting very impatient. Helling/ So are we. Let me just fill you in that way. It is difficult. You have to have some strategies in negotiating and so I am reluctant to talk about it but I think we are coming to the end of the negotiations one way or the other. 15. Nov/ We already touched on the Harvey Wehde and the sidewalk issue. But I seem to remember somewhere back in the ancient history of a couple of years ago we said if there were not sidewalks installed during construction, there would be an escrow account. What happened to that idea? Woito/ We have done that on a case by case basis as needed. The only time we have ever done it is if someone wanted to move in and the weather was bad and the city staff really didn't want a sidewalk installed at that time. Then we required an escrow. I think we have only done like- Nov/ Okay, I would like us to consider doing it on a more regular system so that we don,t get these Harvey Wehde type letters about how dare you ask me for $1000 to put in a sidewalk. Woito/ I am sorry, I just saw that tonight. Nov/ It seems like these kinds of things should not happen. Atkins/ When I built my home...set money aside .... Woito/ Did we issue a release erroneously? That does happen. Nov/ Sorry, I can't tell you what happened but please read the Thisrepresents only areasonablysccu~etronscription ofthelowa City council meeting of April24,1995. WS042495 April'24, 1995 Council Work Session Page 52 letter and see if we can prevent this from future occurrences. Adjourned:10:10 PM Th~sre~resents~n~y~re8s~n~b~y~ccur~tetr~ns~r~pt~n~fthe~C~c~un~m~e~ng~fApri~24~1995~ WS042495